the journalist with Sam Hoisington (ep 2b, 48).

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What happens to a community when no one is paying attention? Since 2005, America has lost more than 3,200 newspapers and the number of journalists per capita has dropped from 40 to just 8 per 100,000 people. The consequences are measurable: voter turnout drops, fewer people run for office, and communities lose the capacity to know what's happening to themselves. Bentonville had local journalism since 1857, but when local papers consolidated into regional coverage in 2015, nearly a decade passed without a news outlet focused solely on one of the fastest-growing cities in America.

Sam Hoisington, a Bentonville native whose father worked at local newspapers for 30 years before the layoffs came, returned home in 2023 after building a successful news startup in Wisconsin. What he found was a gap. In 2024, he launched the Bentonville Bulletin, and his analysis reveals that 69% of the stories he's published have no equivalent coverage anywhere else. In this conversation, Sam discusses the real cost of growth, the infrastructure challenges facing the city, why belonging and local journalism are deeply connected, and what it takes to rebuild the connective tissue that helps a community see itself.

https://www.theunderview.com/episodes/the-journalist-sam-hoisington-bentonville-bulletin

About the underview:

The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.

Website: ⁠⁠theunderview.com⁠⁠
Follow us on Instagram: ⁠⁠@underviewthe
Host: @mikerusch

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theunderview/message

Episode Transcript

sam hoisington. (00:02):
there are a lot of different gaps that
have been left in the newsand I can't get to all of 'em.
I went back, I compiled allthe articles that have been
published in the BentonvilleBulletin since April, 2024.
That's hundreds.
And I try to find equivalentcoverage, b basically a
duplicate of that storyor a different version
of that story, same topicfrom a different outlet.
And 69% of the things thathave been published on our

(00:23):
website, the, there is noequivalent, there is no other
version of that story out there.
So to me, it's proof thatwhat I'm doing matters, but
it's also really concerning.
69% of those stories wouldgo completely untold in
the news if it wasn't forthe Bentonville bulletin.

mike rusch. (01:23):
Well, you're listening to the underview
and exploration and theshaping of our place.
My name is Mike Chen.
Today we're askingquestions that I've been
wrestling with for a while.
What happens to a communitywhen no one is paying attention?
What do we lose when peoplewhose job it is to show up,
ask questions, and write thingsdown, are no longer here.
The reality is, is thatthere's been a steep decline
in local journalism, andthat has come at a cost.

(01:45):
The numbers are reallyhard to look at.
25 years ago, there wereabout 40 journalists For
every 100,000 Americans.
Today, there are eight.
One in three countiesdoesn't have a single
full-time local journalist.
Since 2005, we've lostmore than 3,200 newspapers.
The old model hascollapsed and the new
model hasn't fully arrived.
The consequences are real.

(02:07):
When local news disappears,voter turnout drops.
Fewer people run for office.
Incumbents win more easilybecause no one is informing
voters about alternatives.
And now public media,institutions like NPR and PBS,
that have helped fill gaps inlocal coverage are facing the
impact of the federal fundingcuts that threaten their
ability to keep doing that work.

(02:28):
But it goes deeper thanelections and accountability.
When local journalismdisappears, something
else goes with it.
The capacity for a communityto know what's happening to
itself, to see the connectionbetween a vote at city hall
and the water bill that justdoubled to know who's arriving,
who's being pushed out, andwhose voice is being heard.
You see, a community withoutjournalists is a community

(02:49):
that can't see itself.
Bentonville has had localjournalism since 1857.
The Northwest Appeal, theBenton County Sun, the
Benton County Democrat.
For over 150 years, someone hasalways been paying attention.
And then in 2015, the localpapers consolidated into the
regional Northwest ArkansasDemocratic Gazette, and for
nearly a decade there hasbeen no news outlet focused

(03:12):
solely on Bentonville.
Bentonville and the surroundingareas are one of the fastest
growing places in America,and for a long time hasn't
had anyone whose job it was towatch it and report about it.
So today I wanted to sit downwith Sam Hoisington, the founder
of the Bentonville Bulletin.
Sam grew up here, he's a local,his father worked at the local
newspapers 30 years ago beforethe layoffs came, Sam went off

(03:33):
to study journalism anyway,and he was part of a successful
new startup in Wisconsin.
And then came home, and whenhe got here, he saw the gap.
So in 2024, he launched theBentonville Bulletin, picking
up a tradition that stretchesback before the Civil War.
I don't have all the answersto the questions that I'm
wrestling with, but I can'tthink of anyone better to
start with than someone on thefront lines, someone trying

(03:54):
to recapture what we've lostand trying to bring this vital
service back to our community.
Alright, we've got a wholelot to work through today.
Let's get into it.
I have the privilege todayof sharing a table with Sam
Hoisington, who is the founderof the Bentonville Bulletin.
Sam, welcome tothe conversation.
Thanks for being here today.
I'm so glad to be here.

(04:14):
I'm excited too.
You're a journalist and Iget to ask all the questions.
Yeah.
And we need to have a kindof a reciprocal agreement to
where like we say nice thingsabout each other or something.
I don't know whereto go with that.
No.
I'm gonna pin youdown on some stuff.
I don't, I'm gonna make it hurt.
It's like the real scoop on whathappens behind the microphone.
No, in all seriousness,Sam, welcome.
I've been really lookingforward to this conversation.
I know you grewup in Bentonville.

(04:35):
You're a local journalist.
You've started theBetonville Bulletin.
I'd love to hear a littlebit about your story.
You're, this is your home,Bentonville is your home.
You grew up here you graduatedfrom high school here, if
I understand correctly.
Uh, gimme a little

sam hoi (04:45):
context of who you are.
Yep.
So I was born andraised in Bentonville,
technically born in Rogers.
If we wanna be reallyaccurate at the Old
Mercy Hospital, let pass.
But I am a Bentonville HighSchool . Graduate, graduated
in 2014 and it's been a littlebit since then and I have had
a really interesting career.
So, And the more that Ireflect on that, I really

(05:06):
do have to thank BentonvillePublic Schools for that.
They gave me a wonderfulfoundation, ended up getting
a scholarship to go down toArkansas Tech University.
And then my last year ofstudying journalism there,
things just happened.
Opportunities that youwould never expect.
One thing led to another.
I actually ended up inWashington, DC for the
final year of my universitycareer, and I had some

(05:28):
internships at the Chronicleof Higher Education and
NPR, and then stayed aroundthere for a little bit.
So I think I was in DC fortwo years, and then I moved to
Madison, Wisconsin for about.
I think I, I think that waslike five years or so, and
I moved back here in 2023.
I've had a couple stops.
I've had several differentjobs in journalism.
I've never actually beena beat reporter before.

(05:50):
So I was always doing audienceengagement or newsletters
or journalism support stuff.
I wrote, but this is actuallymy first beat reporting job.
And I moved back here in 2023and I was just looking around
and I was looking at how muchstuff had changed and how
much things hadn't changed.
And I was really worriedthat the level of local

(06:15):
news is, we're such awealthy community overall.
There's a lot of resourceshere compared to other
communities our size.
We really don't havethe local news coverage
that I think we should.
And so that's the genesisof the Bentonville Bulletin.

mike rusch. (06:30):
I grew up here as well, and I remember
when the record was actuallythe record, I think the
Benton County Daily record.
They were printing newspapersthere and everything.
Bentonville has got like areally long history of local
journalism . This is not aforeign thing to our area.
But you came back here and allof that has had, had really
gone away and been acquiredby larger news organizations.

(06:52):
So I'm curious, like whenyou moved back here, tell
me more about what yousaw what was missing.

sam hoisington. (06:56):
So first of all, I will say the
record is a beautiful venue.
I love going to events there.
It does break my heartknowing that, when I was
a Boy Scout, I actuallytoured the printing press.
So you saw it too?
I did because my fatheractually worked at the local
newspapers for about 30 years.
And so he, and so for.
The folks that are listeningto this that might not know,
we had the Benton CountyDaily record, and we had

(07:18):
basically a daily newspaperin each of our core cities.
And they ended up gettingmerged and merged until
we got the NorthwestArkansas Democrat Gazette.
And my father worked forseveral decades in ad
design for the newspapers.
And then somewhere around thatperiod where I was in high
school, he ended up gettinglaid off from the newspaper.
He finally got, his ticketwas finally, called on that.

(07:39):
And it big hit to the family.
My mom's a school teacher.
There was five of us kids,and so I know very much the
uncertainty that caused.
And then for some reason, acouple years later, I went
to college and said, oh yeah,you know what I should do?
I should get involvedin that industry there.
But it is a sad decline.
But it happenedreally slowly too.

(07:59):
So I will also say the NorthwestArkansas Democrat Gazette
is family owned and it isstaffed up more so than maybe
some other metro newspapersare in o other cities.
We do have something tobe grateful for with the
Democrat Gazette here.
But obviously, most of thenews organizations that we
have here are regionallyfocused, broadcast stations,

(08:20):
regionally focused radiostations, regionally focused.
And really, when we identifywith the kind of updates that
we want, I personally reallywant Bentonville updates.
I live in here, I don'tlive in Siloam Springs.
It's nice to, if somethingbig's going on, I,
Hey, tell me about it.
But, I think people thatlive in Bentonville want
to hear about Bentonville.

(08:40):
They wanna know aboutBentonville businesses,
Bentonville City Council.
And that really is the thesisof the Bentonville Bulletin.
So it is.
Bentonville.
Sometimes Centerton doessneak in there if it's got
something really interestingor Bella Vista or whatever.
But for the most part itis just 100% Bentonville.
And that's what I'mbringing back here.
As those newspapers merged, itled to that regional coverage.

(09:01):
It's good regional coverage,this is hyper-local.

mike rusch. (09:04):
I think this is fascinating because as those
cities really lost that localnews coverage, like what does
that really mean in practice?
This used to be a small townthat I grew up in, and by all
rights, I would say there'snot, not a lot happening here,
but there was news sourceshere and when that declines,
what stories weren't beingtold or what was not brought

(09:24):
to the public attention?

sam hoisington. (09:25):
So there are a lot of different gaps that
have been left in the newsand I can't get to all of 'em.
So I really focus on growthand local government coverage.
And recently I wentback, I compiled all the
articles that have beenpublished in the Bentonville
Bulletin since April, 2024.
That's hundreds.
And I went back and I looked.
And I try to find equivalentcoverage, b basically a

(09:47):
duplicate of that storyor a different version
of that story, same topicfrom a different outlet.
And 69% of the things thathave been published on our
website, the, there is noequivalent, there is no other
version of that story out there.
So to me, that's really,it's proof that what I'm
doing matters, but it'salso really concerning.
69% of those stories wouldgo completely untold in

(10:09):
the news if it wasn't forthe Bentonville bulletin.

mike rusch. (10:12):
Talk to me a little bit from your
experience, what happens whenthose stories aren't told?
What's at risk for usas a, as as a community,?

sam hoisington. (10:18):
So I do outta stuff in newsletter.
No, this is an opinion show.
Yeah, I know.
I've gotta be human with you.
And honestly, I thinkpeople do want that from me.
They don't want a voice ofGod that tells the news.
They wanna knowyou're a real person.
And so I think we,we lose a whole lot.
So the national partisan stuff,this just, this anger and stuff

(10:40):
has seeped down to the locallevel and we are not spending
nearly enough time on localissues, I think it's great that
people are engaged and haveopinions with national politics.
It's obviously an unprecedentedtime with all of that, but what
I'm always asking people tothink of is, Hey, where should
we be spending our attention?
Should it be.
90% national and 10% local.

(11:02):
'cause that's what it feelslike to me a lot of the times.
I would love if somebody wouldtake my coverage of the sewer
to their family Thanksgivingand just fight about it.
let, Let's do that.
Let's switch it up a little bit.
Yeah.
Because these localbusinesses, they matter where
our tax dollars are going.
That matters a lot and we justdon't have enough focus on that.
And we lose a lot when we're,virtual instead of in person

(11:25):
when we're not going out andseeing our community when
we don't have time to readan update about a neighbor.
And so I think we lose a lotand, honestly, newspapers
were a pretty darn good idea.
So right now, in the absenceof, a new startup in the absence
a lot of people don't get thenewspaper anymore, getting your
information on social media.

(11:45):
There isn't thereisn't no influencer.
They're all ethical people.
They don't have the same code ofconduct that a journalist has.
Correct.
If I get something wrong, Iwill do anything in my power
to make sure that's known.
Earlier this year, I messed up,I had to send an email about how
I messed up to 12,000 people.
And the crazy thing about thatis, about, I think it was five

(12:06):
or six people scroll to the veryvery bottom of that email where
I said, Hey listen, before thisgets outta control, I messed
up five or six people scrollto the bottom of that and chose
to donate to the BentonvilleBulletin because I did that.
And I thought that wascrazy transparency.
Yeah.
I thought that was wild.
'cause obviously Iwasn't gonna turn that
into a fundraising unit.
Yeah.
They just found that littlesmall link in the footer.

(12:27):
And so I think that means alot to people and sometimes
I think it's easy to, withhow slow things you know,
happened over the years.
I think it's.
It's not until maybe you holdthe Bentonville bulletin in
your hand and you realize, ohmy gosh, all this stuff has been
happening and I didn't know.
Stay with that.
I'm really curious, like thisprocess, or to me, of what

(12:48):
happens when local journalismis not there and this place
that you I would say right,rightfully filled or rightfully,
needs to be filled in ourcommunity to really understand
the importance of why someoneneeds to be paying attention to
this and why does it matter somuch from your opinion you're
pouring your life into this, butwhy does it matter so much to
pay attention to these stories?

(13:10):
I think we have lost a lot of our neighborly
connections and things likethat this is probably a
hot take, a lot less peopleattend church these days.
For a variety of reasons.
And that used to be one of theplaces where you interacted
with people that you didn'treally like all that much.
There was this one ladyand she's, gossiping a
bit and you're pleasant toher and stuff like that.

(13:32):
We don't interact withpeople the same way anymore.
It's very virtual.
And every single story that'sin the Bentonville Bulletin,
you can do something about.
You know that if there's acharity that needs help, you
can do something about that.
You can go to that shop.
So these are all startingpoints for you to connect in
some way with your communityor with a different subsect

(13:52):
in the community that youmight not have known existed.
We recently did a story, I hada freelancer do a story about
the DJ culture in Bentonville.
I didn't even knowthere was one.
There is.
And they're doing somereally interesting stuff.
They do ambient noise nightsat the, Bentonville Community
Radio, their their studio there.
Yeah.
Really interesting experienceand yeah, you might not have

(14:12):
known that even existed andyou might not even wanna get
involved in that, but, maybeyou know somebody that does.
I sent my brother thatlink and I was like,
Hey, this is somethingthat you might be into.

mike rusch. (14:23):
I think one of the things that I've heard you
say is that the real story ofBentonville is in the story of
growth and who gets pushed outand who's being brought in.
I'd love for you tounpack that a little bit.
What does growth looklike in a place like this?
Because you're payingreally close attention to

sam hoisington. (14:39):
it.
I am, and I will tell you.
There are a lot of peoplethat are getting squeezed
real hard right now.
People that I grew up with,former teachers that are retired
now, they're looking aroundand going, is this for me?
This is thisgetting real pricey.
And so I am deeplyconcerned about that.
And I've been able to doa little bit of housing
affordability coverage, but notas much as I'd really like to.

(15:02):
But I think thatis the question.
So for, I think for thepast few decades, the growth
has been, it's been reallyhard to argue that it was
anything other than positive.
Opportunities opportunities.
But we're now at the pointwhere we've done such a good
job of branding ourselves.
Villes a tourism destination.
We've got all this great stuff.
We've been nervous totalk about the negative

(15:24):
side effects of this.
And I think now people areready to have that conversation.
Might be a little, a coupleyears too late here, but I wanna
shout out Brandon Gengelbachat the Chamber of Commerce,
because, it would be reallyeasy for him to stand up and
just do 100% Bimal great.
But they're one of theseentities that is coming up
and saying, Hey, we have gottapay attention to the sewer.

(15:45):
Or, we're in trouble.
We have got to start takingthese affordable housing
concerns really seriously.
Or we're gonna be like some ofthose ski towns out in Colorado
that can't find anybody towork at the ski resort anymore.
And so I think we are readyto have that conversation.
I think the Bentonville bulletinis definitely part of that.

mike rusch. (16:01):
I, I'm really curious from your
perspective, you spent a lotof time with city Council.
We've, I've sat next to youin some of those meetings.
But you're there a lot payingreally close attention to
a lot of these decisionsthat are being made around
what growth looks like.
I'm curious, what do yousee that maybe isn't always
in the headlines, but maybebehind the scenes, how the
city is working and how we'removing towards meeting some

(16:24):
of those challenges of growth?

sam hoisington. (16:25):
So I feel like a really common refrain.
So just something I hear allthe time is, oh, Bentonville
didn't plan for growth.
Bentonville doesn'thave a plan for growth.
And you know what?
I think that's a valid opinion.
I do.
I think a lot of stuffhappened to us instead of
us leading that charge.
But I think what you've seenover, especially the past
year is we, the local entitiesin charge of that are making

(16:46):
a really good plan, planBentonville the future land
use map that the city made.
I think it's phenomenal.
It's it's a plan that peoplehave been looking for, right?
Every single parcel in the cityis now mapped out by what the
city thinks it's gonna be usedfor in the next few decades.
Is that a new neighborhood?
Is that gonna, remainfarmland and stuff like that?
The sewer upgrades.

(17:07):
Obviously the sewercapacity issues have been
building for decades.
The water leaks, all of thathas been happening for decades.
There is a plan to dosomething about that now.
And so it's funny though,because the plans require
money and some of the moneyis coming from rate payers and
it's putting some people inquite a pinch doubling water
rates is tough, but we'rejust now going back and paying

(17:31):
some of those costs for thosethings that we were ignoring,
and I think that's, it'sgonna be a painful adjustment.
It really is.
So there's a lot of upgradesthat need to happen.
But in addition to PlanBentonville, the future land use
plan, visit Bentonville is doinga destination master plan about
what tourism should look like.
The Chamber is, releasing,I've been writing about it

(17:51):
recently, releasing a neweconomic development strategy.
So by the end of this year,or maybe early part of next
year, you'll be able to look atexactly what local leaders think
the plan is for Bentonville.
Whether we follow it or whetherit goes according to plan.
That's one thing, but theplans are gonna be there and
any resident is gonna be ableto look at that and say, Hey,

(18:12):
like this is, this is the plan.
Am I on board?
Do I have something to do?
I agree with that.
But they'll have some sortof plan and I think that's
probably a good thing.

mike rusch. (18:20):
I I'm curious if you could help me maybe
bridge into the activities thatyou see in city council all
the time, and then maybe thegeneral awareness in the public
of how that really plays out.
I think you mentioned it,people say well, they have
these opinions about what'sgoing on that may or may not
be necessarily rooted in thefacts of what's happening.
How do you view your rolein bridging that gap between

(18:42):
the general public and thereality of what's happening
within those places?

sam hoisington. (18:46):
Yeah.
So that one's challenging.
Because I think hating ourpoliticians is like the most
American thing you can do,like apple pie baseball,
and I hate the mayor.
Yeah.
And I think it's importantagain, to separate, the national
stuff and then the local stuff.
All the time I hear, oh,city council, it's, they're
idiots, they're incompetent.

(19:06):
And really what I want to say tothat is if we, if we all elect
'em and they're all idiots, thenwhat does that say about us?
Does that say we weren'tpaying attention and we
did elect a bunch of bozos?
Or is it perhaps that, thisgroup of people has totally
varying opinions on how toapproach this, and they're us.
They're regular peoplethat got elected to make

(19:27):
these huge decisions.
And I will tell you, there'sbeen several times that
I've sat in a city councilmeeting and I've thought, oh.
Y I know exactly how I'd vote onthis and there's been a couple
of times where I walked intosomething and I had, this idea
that it was gonna be one way.
And then I listen to everybodytalk about it and at the
end I go, you know what?
I have no idea which wayI would vote on this.

(19:49):
Sometimes you have twobad options, sometimes
you have two good options.
And so I wish that we had spacefor the nuance that comes with
making these decisions, but Iunderstand, it's really my job
to hold space for that, but alsoto make it simple enough that
you can catch up on something.
It's a tricky balance, but Iwill say when I got started,
I thought, I was gonnahave to sneak those city

(20:11):
council updates in, right?
You know, new bar, newbar, New bar, and then
oop, infrastructure story.
That's not the case.
So now that people have thissource, the Bentonville Bulletin
that is getting into this,they're really interested in it.
Those are these infrastructure,these city council stories.
They're often the mostpopular stories that we do.
In fact the story about AliceWalton extending the Alice

(20:31):
Walton Foundation extendingan offer for a line of
credit to upgrade the sewerrecently, that is the number
one story that the BentonvilleBulletin has ever published
in terms of page views.
It's about the sewer.
So I think that's probablywhat I think about that.
And also, I understandthat people largely, and
this is really important toremember, they have no idea

(20:52):
how the city council works.
And you can'tblame 'em for that.
I recently wrote a guide towhat is a city council meeting?
What happens first?
What happens?
I saw that it was really good.
Thank you.
Because I realized, I'mover here barking about city
council the whole time andpeople are like, what is that?
And that's a fair questionbecause if you go and look,
there isn't another place tofind out that information that's

(21:12):
in that city council guide.
The only other way is probablyto be somebody that works in
an industry like development,that you have to go there a lot
to keep up to date for work.
So it is, an inaccessiblekind of foreign feeling thing.
And I do hope to be a pointof entry for people into that.

mike rusch. (21:29):
I was looking through kind of the relationship
between local journalism andreally this kind of civic
involvement, if you will.
And I was really surprised,maybe in a bad way to really
look at just the statisticsaround that when local news is
not there, voter turnout drops,few fewer people run for office.

(21:50):
Obviously there can becorruption in instances.
I'm really curious,like, how do you.
See the relationship betweenthese things and what's at
stake for our community in that?

sam hoisington. (22:01):
Absolutely.
The holy grail of localjournalism has always been
framed as accountability.
An investigation, youuncover a malfeasance of some
kind and stuff like that.
But really in, in thissituation where we're at,
that idea of accountabilityreally starts with awareness.
We like baseline level stuff.
How does the city council work?

(22:21):
This, that, and then we cango back and get into some
of this more complex stuff.
But I absolutely think that ourwater leak coverage is some of
the stuff that brought peopleto those city council meetings,
and one of the things thatwe, that I experimented with
earlier this year is we, insteadof just writing about our
sewer treatment plant upgrade.
I said, let's go on a tour.

(22:43):
I need to take a tour anyway.
Why don't some of y'allcome along with me?
Got 15 people and it wasover spring break actually.
And some teenagers got broughtby their parents and so I'm
sure they had the best story.
Thanks, Sam.
They had the best story totell when everybody, got back
from the beach and they werelike, I was with a journalist
at the sewer treatment plant.
But we had a member of thecommunity who was really
smart and really successful.

(23:04):
And, but she came in reallyhot, she really didn't
think we needed all theseupgrades and stuff like that.
She's one of those people thathas seen the water leak stuff.
She just, she thoughtcity government was
just being irresponsibleand stuff like that.
And by the end of it, she hadtotally changed her perspective
on that 'cause she got thisnew information firsthand.
And I like to think that'shappening more and more at
home, and I just can't see it.

(23:25):
But I think about that a lotbecause, we really did change
how somebody thought on that.
And again, she's amarvelous person.
She's a very successfulcareer and stuff like that.
But, she went in thinking it wasone way and really, once all the
facts were there, she ended upthinking it was something else.

mike rusch. (23:39):
Yeah, I think this is necessary, right?
I think it's really easy tosit back and to assume we
know what's happening, butto, to go into the places
where these stories are takingplace and to understand is
the work that many peopleare not really willing to do.
And I think this idea of civicengagement, I, I. I'm I'm
really curious do you viewyour role with the Bentonville
bulletin as trying to pushforward this idea of more civic

(24:02):
engagement as an end resultof the work that you're doing?

sam hoisington. (24:05):
I definitely do, and there
is a really interestingproject called Civic Lex.
They're out in, I believeLexington, Kentucky,
I believe it is.
And they've taken, they startedwith local news, but they took
it one step further because,and I feel like I do have to do
that, like me writing about citycouncil all day long doesn't
matter if you don't know whenyou haven't been there, so I do
think I am the perfect person,and I've considered this idea.

(24:28):
What if I just get somesnacks and I invite you to
come watch along with meOne city council meeting.
That's absolutelysomething that I can do.
But this outfit called CivicL, they've really taken
things one step furtherwith their nonpartisan,
advocacy for their audience.
And for example, one ofthe things they did is they
surveyed their audience andthey found that their audience
was really confused by theterminology in city council

(24:50):
agendas and how they work.
They really weren'tself-explanatory.
And this news organizationworked with the city to update
their agenda templates to makethem more audience friendly
for somebody that was justwalking in off the street.
I believe you were at themural meeting at the library.
I was there a few times, yes.
And there was a big meeting atthe library, and you probably
remember this, there was a pointwhere the mayor was reading

(25:14):
off names of people that hadsigned up for public comment
and there were several peoplethere that said, oh, I actually
don't have a public comment.
I just thought thatwas a sign sheet.
I remember that.
So obviously to me, okay,that was a big controversy,
that was an entry pointfor a lot of people.
I think a lot of them wouldframe it as a negative
entry point, but to methat's an identified

(25:34):
point of friction there.
That's not self-explanatory.
What's going on there.
I could probably dosomething about that.
And so I'm thinking a lot aboutthat in the new year where it
doesn't have to just be, I wroteabout your city government,
is there an opportunity to doa tour, to arrange a meeting,
to bring people along with meas I do some of this stuff.
I don't have a, I don'thave a ton of, free time
or anything like that, butI'm thinking about it and I

(25:56):
would love to do a lot more.

mike rusch. (25:58):
That's awesome.
Sign me up.
I'll follow you around.
'cause I think it's fascinatingand I'm sure probably like
yourself I've just, I've beenin a lot of situations where I
thought I knew what was gonnahappen or I thought I knew
what to expect, and I've justbeen pleasantly wrong a lot.
And it happens because you'restarting to interact with
people and their storiesin a really beautiful way.
And so I love that approach.
I just, for whatever it'sworth, keep doing it.

sam hoisington. (26:19):
And I'll tell you the thing about being a
journalist and this mindset thatyou're, that is just drilled
into you is you don't know.
There are so few things thatyou know for a fact, right?
So when you write somethingdown, you have to think,
is there any possible way,even if it's 0.0, zero, zero
5%, that I'm wrong on this.
And, that is not the mindset,honestly, that I use in

(26:42):
a lot of the rest of mylife and my personal life.
I'm not always interrogatingevery belief, but that practice
has really made me a littlebit more open-minded and.
I often say the more Ilearn, the less I know.
The more you learn the pictureon, on, just about everything
gets more complicated.
For just about anyproblem in this city
that you think is simple.

(27:04):
It's just not, it's really not.
If you get into the detailson some of these things.
And I think that's probablythe case with, honestly
most things in life.

mike rusch. (27:12):
As you look at the city and what's happening here,
what's your criteria for whatstories you're gonna follow,
which ones you're gonna publish?

sam hoisington. (27:19):
How do you think about that?
So I, it was really importantjust to pick a lane, right?
'cause, you can't do everything.
And so I looked around and Ilooked for what was missing,
and that's always what I'mdoing, what's missing, so
if I get a press releaseabout a big development,
i'll probably skip it or, notspend a ton of time on that.
'cause I can justlink you out to that.
I know how the news media works,I see the press release go out.

(27:41):
I get it.
I'm grateful thatsomebody let me know.
And I know that in a couplehours the broadcast stations are
gonna have a post about that.
And so I know that, I canjust link you out to that.
I know they'regonna get to that.
What are they not gonna get to?
Is it a story that somebodymentioned to me while they were
having a couple, drinks at abar or something like that?
Is it an untold story?
Just somebody has a reallyinteresting backstory.

(28:02):
Is it just going one leveldeeper on something, but if I
know that somebody, another newsorganization's gonna get to it,
most of the time if I don't haveanything like unique, a unique
angle or something else to addto that, I'll let 'em have it
and I'll just link out to it.
So the duplication of thingsis something that kind of
frustrates me a little bit.
Every newsroom hasless and less people.

(28:24):
The Bentonville Bulletin hasone person that works there.
And I wish, as an industry,we did collaborate a
little bit more andshared a little bit more.
I do collaborate as much aspossible with other people.
You will sometimes see theBentonville Bulletin articles
on the five news website.
They've been talkingabout getting me on tv.
I'm just nervous about it.
But you're great frombehind a microphone.
Thank you.

(28:44):
Thank you.
Thank you.
And we also we work togetherwith NWA Daily, which is a
daily aggregator newsletter.
And so actually, if yougo on our website and you
sign up for the BentonvilleBulletin, the very next screen
is gonna say, Hey, do youwanna sign up for NWA daily?
Do you want to get a littledose of regional news every day?
That costs both of us nothing.
It's the same thingon their website.

(29:06):
We both grow together and,they go, I don't wanna say
shallow, but it's a broadoverview and it's daily and
it's regional, and it's d. Andover here I'm going a little
bit deeper on one community.
And so it's a nice compliment.
And again, stuff like that,I'm always looking to do
a little bit more of that.
That does take a differentmindset than what would
probably happen in a traditionalnewsroom, but I've made some

(29:27):
inroads and I think it's beenbeneficial for everybody.

mike ru (29:30):
Sam, I'm curious as you think about the community's
like role and maybe newssourcing , I don't know.
I heard you mention thatsometimes, you may hear of
things from relationshipsand people that you're
interacting with that reallywarrant maybe more attention
for the good of our city.
And I'm curious, how do youview that relationship between
you and the public in thatkind of news gathering process?

sam hoisington. (29:50):
I get most of my tips either,
Probably 50 50 split.
Somebody, slips me a little,Hey, look at this kind of thing.
Emails me, sees me out and aboutin my Bentonville bulletin hat.
And then probably the otherhalf is just a follow up to
something else that I wrote.
I still have this unresolvedquestion about X, Y, or
Z and so I'm gonna do afollow up story on it.
And, I send it, I send theweekly newsletter out to

(30:11):
14,000 people now, and I reallyneed to do a better job of
saying Hey, this is an email.
Just like any other email,you can just reply to this
and I will respond to you.
And so I take great care tomake sure that anybody that
isn't just like outright call melike a weird name or something,
they do get a response.
It might take a couple dayssometimes up to a week.
But it is important tohave that open dialogue.

(30:32):
And the funny thing is, I spenda lot of time just walking
around, I'll walk in peoplesay, Hey, Sam, what do you need?
I don't need anything.
What are you guys up to?
Can I peek in the back?
Is here.
And I think at first that kindof freaked out some people,
but now I'm a pretty regularpresence a lot of different
places around town, and Ipurposefully schedule time to
drive around, to walk around andjust see, did something change?

(30:55):
Is there a sign out somewhere?
And that is where Ifind a lot of stories.
So people are always,able to reach out through
the email or through thenewsletter, and that is where
we get a lot of the tips.
It's a dialogue.

mike rusch. (31:05):
You've been doing this, you said since
April of 2024, What are thethings that you didn't think
you would see happening here?
Or the kinds of interactionsor the kinds of problems
that were dealing with?
Yeah.
That maybe surprised you alittle bit and gosh, I really
didn't think that kind ofthing happened here in a
good way or a bad way, butmaybe it's something that you
feel like you've discoveredabout the city along the way.

sam hoisington. (31:25):
I think the problems that the city.
Is facing are not the problemsthat I thought they would be.
I think everybody in downtownBentonville and in some other
places were always a littlebit suspicious about why
their lawns were soggy whenit hadn't rained in a while.
But my word this, the scaleof these water leaks is

(31:46):
just, was just so massive.
Thousands of water leaks havebeen identified across the city.
They're making reallygood progress actually at,
getting 'em solved now.
But I think the scale ofthat problem surprised me.
I think the scale of the sewersituation really surprised me.
And then I just have thisoverwhelming, looming feeling

(32:06):
that we, that all the localleaders are doing what they
can to address this, butthere's a cliff that's coming
with some of these expenses.
So we have basically, asresidents not been paying the
full cost of infrastructurefor the past couple decades.
We really haven't.
And so you're seeing thosebills go up, we're catching up.
There are also some people thatfeel that developers haven't

(32:27):
been paying their fair share.
You could make that argument.
But the thing is, all of theinfrastructure needs upgrading
in a really major way.
And, this is also a situationactually at the school
district, which financiallyspeaking the last time that
they had an auditor comethrough, the guy was like, I
could only find three things.
And it was like in thefootball booster club, and
it wa it was like a receiptwas missing or something.

(32:49):
I don't remember exactly.
But, their books are cleanand it's a well-run operation
according to, experts.
But one thing that peopledon't realize about the
school district is thestate changed their funding
model a couple years ago.
And they used to, and forgiveme, I, I don't have my notes
in front of me, but they usedto fund I believe it was 33%
of a new school building.

(33:09):
So you could really get,them to chip in quite a bit.
Now the latestnumber is like 0.5%.
They totally changedthat funding.
And so people look at theschool district and they're
like, Hey, they're tucking awaymillions of dollars every year.
That's why my propertytaxes are so high.
And what they don't realizeis, a new high school is
gonna be perhaps hundredsof millions of dollars.

(33:31):
And so what they're puttingback, that's not even enough
to build the next school,and they're gonna need a
couple in the next few years.
So these problems are reallybig and they require a
lot of time to understand.
And I honestly feel like I'mjust barely getting a grasp
on some of these things still.

mike rusch. (33:48):
As you look back over your time, since 2024 I'm
curious, what do you see thatreally draws people to the news?
What do you see that'scapturing people's attention
and imagination here?

sam hoisington. (33:58):
So I, I think people really appreciate
that civic coverage.
That's what I hear all the time.
I was at a meeting aboutdowntown Bentonville.
I don't remember when that was.
It was sometime this year.
And a very nice womancame up and slipped $50
in my tote bag and said,you're doing a great job.
Keep it up.
And that is the kind ofcoverage that has gotten
people to give financially.
And you're never more engagedwith a story than when you

(34:20):
pay me voluntarily for it.
So I really look at thatas the core mission is
that civic coverage, thatlocal government coverage.
And I'll tell you thereare a lot of interesting
stories of people that Ireally haven't gotten to.
There are a lot of interestingprofiles that should be written
and time of day sort of thing.
But I would love to beable to tell more stories
about individual people aswell in the coming year.

(34:42):
'Cause a lot of what Ihave been doing is very.
Things that feel a littleabstract, like a system sort of
thing, but really Bentonville,iss made up of people.
And so I, those stories dowell, for example sometime
next week by the time this isout, it'll probably be live,
there is a retired Walmartexecutive that is now a second
grade teacher at Thyden.
What, dude, what, like,how'd that happen?

(35:03):
There are a lot of storieslike that I'd like to get to.

mike rusch. (35:05):
What are some of the biggest, most consequential
stories that you've writtenabout or you've seen happen?

sam hoisington. (35:09):
I will say a lot of what is known about
some of the city governmentproblems, by re residents.
It's 'cause of the Benevillebulletin, so you still
cannot find any otherexplanation of the sewer
capacity situation out there.
I've looked, there's been acouple stories that I've touched
on it from other places, butnothing that actually sits you
down and walks you through, Hey,what's happening, with that.

(35:30):
And so that is new knowledge.
That is creating newknowledge for people.
Of course, it existed in someconsultant report that was a
few hundred pages long, butI know that has had ripple
effects and one way that I seeit is sometimes now I'll see,
comments on other, like newsorganizations or just on social
media about something else.
And they will be referencingmostly correctly some facts

(35:51):
that were revealed in otherstories that I've written and.
That is the only placeto find that information.
A lot of the times, especiallywith the water leak stuff
and the sewer stuff.
Local news, theimpact is hard, right?
It's like Tinkerbell, it'sthis makes a difference to
you if you believe it does, ifyou care about these things.
But I can't make you care about,a neighbor with an interesting
story or new businessesthat open or city council.

(36:14):
But there are enough peopleout there that intuitively
do care and they really wannaknow, especially with local
businesses, a new businessopening, a new bar, restaurant.
Those are some of themost popular stories.
And I always tell people, onereason to support local news
is we always say shop local.
Everybody, agreesshop local is good.
How are you gonna shop localif nobody tells you that these
places, opened and stuff.

(36:34):
So I think that's a realservice to the community too.
,mike rusch.: What do you think,
stories that you feel likehave mattered to you over
the past year and a half?
I'm gonna be honest I'm gonnakeep hitting pretty much
the same things here.
The sewer situation,the water situation, one
and the same on that.
Basically all this growth thathas happened above ground,
that happened below ground too,and we weren't ready for it.
So those are big stories.

(36:55):
They're gonna keepbeing big stories.
And then another one, itunfortunately, boring things
matter a great deal, and a lotof the times, the sales tax
rebates situation at the city.
Oh my God, you're tellingme I gotta care about
sales tax rebates.
Now my word, what don't I,ugh, let me get into that.
But that really matters,like the budget for Core
City Services is reallylooking like it's flatlining.

(37:18):
So if you care about thelibrary and the parks and
things like that, there'sno emergency right now.
We're not gonna do a GoFundMefor the library right now,
like we are not in a badspot, but we absolutely
need to keep an eye on that.
Nobody's even really surewhy that sales tax rev
revenue is flatlining.
We have some early indications,but that is absolutely
something that we need tokeep an eye on for next year

(37:41):
and the year after that.
Because if it's reallystaying flat, that
really means effectivelyit's going down, right?
Inflation, every, are anyyear bills going down, not
that I've noticed, right?
Not mine.
If things are staying flat,like that is gonna be a problem
in the next couple of years.
Yeah.
And then in terms of likeimpact, I think the smaller
stories are the ones that are,easier to judge impact on.

(38:02):
The things that I treasurethe most, the things that
I have in my folder of nicethings that people have said
to me that I open up and clickthrough when I had a bad day.
A lot of them are thesesmall local businesses that
are just trying somethingnew, have put all their
heart and soul into it.
And I was able to do,honestly, a pretty quick
blog post about 'em.
And a lot of people will,will stop by and say,
yeah, no, I saw you in,the Bentonville bulletin.

(38:24):
And I think I, I thinkthat's the that, that
matters a lot to me.
I it's hard to be small and it'shard to be local and anybody
that's doing that, if I canhelp 'em out I like doing that.
I love that.

mike rusch. (38:35):
I'm curious how you view your role, and this
idea of belonging, we talk a lotabout what, within this, within
these conversations about whatit means to belong to a place.
And I guess I have my opinions,but I'm curious, how do you view
your role in helping to form andshape someone's understanding
and belonging to this place?

sam hoisingt (38:54):
I did an analysis.
It wasn't scientific.
I clicked around a little bit.
On the Bentonville subreddit.
Most recent, most famous postnot famous, most viewed, most
attention the things thatare asked the most often,
and I'll tell you one ofthe most common questions
on the Bentonville subredditis how do I make friends?
I just moved here forWalmart or something else.

(39:14):
I'm 35, I work from home.
All these different situations.
A lot of people are justlooking for friends.
It's hard.
It's actually kinda hardto make adult friends,
it's hard to find that spotthat you can plug into.
And so I think, I'vereally taken on this civic
engagement sort of thing.
I think I could havejust asea easily gone
with the belonging route.
I, if we talk about impact, likeif I helped, you may make your

(39:36):
first friend in Bentonville.
That could be the most impactfulthing that anybody's ever
done, in local news ever.
That's you getting plugged in.
And so I know with allthe new residents that are
in town it's hard to findyour place a little bit.
When I first moved back, I waslike, do I still fit in here?
I don't know, I tried out acouple different things before
I really found some friends.
And, of course I reconnectedwith people, but.

(39:57):
I think with the number of newresidents that we have here,
we really do need to cometogether some sort of way, I
don't know what it looks like,but a community wide effort to
help people literally just makefriends, for 20 26, 1 of the
things that I would love to dois just do profiles of clubs.
It doesn't sound like the mostrigorous journalism, if there's
a button club, if there's asewing club, if there's book

(40:18):
clubs, just a list of that Ithink would be really helpful.
So we've done a, I've donea little bit of that and
I would love to do more.

mike rusch. (40:24):
I'm curious then to that point, like
where do you see the barriersfor that ability for people
to belong based on thework that you're doing?

sam hoisington. (40:31):
So on, honestly, you're
asking my opinion.
I think one of theanswers is people work.
A lot these days it, it takes alot to, keep food on the table.
And so people are reallybusy, with work and life
and stuff like that.
So it's hard tocarve out that time.
That's just a basic human,situation that we're all in.
I think there aren't anyorganizations really that help
you make a friend, which isfunny, there are organizations

(40:53):
that might accidentally helpyou make a friend, by promoting
bars or things to do, orevents or hosting events.
But really would it be socrazy to have a friendship
and connection bureau ordepartment at the city?
I don't, I reallydon't think it would.
There's not a lot of moneysitting around there these days.
But if you look at what reallymatters to quality of life and
what really matters to health,and longevity living a long

(41:15):
time, it's having friends,it's having connections.
And so I think maybe it,there's a little bit of shame
that goes along with it too.
And I think that's why thatsubreddit is such a place
for people to come and belike, Hey man, like I think
I'm pretty cool, but I justhaven't found my people.
I've been here a year anda half what's going on?
Like, where'd youguys find people?
And I think it's not talkedabout enough, but if you have

(41:36):
this many new residents, thenyou probably have a large number
of people that don't feel likethis is home, that haven't
been introduced to somebody.
And so visit Bentonvilledoing some pretty interesting
stuff on that front, but Ithink we could always do more.

mike rusch. (41:48):
I love that.
It's a interesting thingto hear from a journalist.
Yeah.
Like it's, I love your insightbecause I feel like you are
paying attention and youprobably talk to a heck of
a lot more people than I do.
And to have that as maybeone of the barriers for a
community I guess I'm notsurprised to hear that, although
I hate hearing that and itfeels there are definitely
opportunities for that.
. Sam, we talked a little bitabout earlier about how people
can support that, the workyou're doing, and if they

(42:09):
value this role of independentjournalism in our city.
What makes the most sensefor people to support
you, to subscribe?
How can people help, ormaybe what are some of the
barriers for people gettingengaged to support this work?

sam hoisington. (42:23):
So I have thought about that a lot because
for things to be different,the equation has to change.
So if ad support in media,local media, if there was
gonna be enough ad revenue togive you good, high quality
local news, then it would'vealready happened, right?
There's bigger places tryingto make that happen, but most
people still don't have thelocal news that they want.
So that formula has to change.
And, un unfortunately,the honest truth is it

(42:44):
requires readers to chipin and sacrifice a little
bit and chip in financiallya little bit more, and.
Probably my biggest struggleis converting people from being
really big fans that say, Hey,thank you so much for your work.
Or writing me, thatwas a great article.
And stuff like that.
And helping them see thatthere is a direct line from
me continuing to do this andyou financially supporting me.

(43:06):
And in our particular community.
It's really tricky, I thinkbecause so many of our causes
are underwritten by philanthropyand large, corporate entities.
And we get a lot of stuff forfree that I think we might
even be programmed to justexpect good things to be free.
And not everythingis free, right?
It can't be.
And so everybody intuit,like nobody seems to disagree

(43:30):
that readers need to supportlocal journalism and that
things have gotten prettybad on local journalism, but
the, there's these blockers.
And I, I saw recently that yourmembership came through Yeah.
And you financiallysupported me and.
But you've been a fan forquite some time, and so I'm
wondering what it was foryou that finally made you
say, yes, I want to do it?

mike rusch. (43:48):
Okay.
I see.
I see what you're doing there.
You're gonna askme the questions.
We, and that's not fair.
I, no, because you'reprobably a much better
question asker than I am.
No, but I think in allseriousness, I think for me, I
think it's really easy in thisworld that we have of what news
looks like that I guess maybeunder this, I have this bias
that there's an agenda, right?
And that maybe with politicalorganizations and news

(44:09):
organizations seem to findsome affinity that they want
me to do something right.
That there's somesort of influence.
And I think the more thatI've sat there and thought
about that and really startto understand the role of
what happens when localjournalism isn't there, and
what happens civically in ourcity becomes really problematic
when people don't vote orthey don't run for office, or

(44:30):
not that there's corruptionissues, but like people
aren't being held accountable.
I think it turns the equationa little bit to say I'm
not investing in someoneto go write stories for the
sake of my entertainment.
This is someone who's doingthe work to understand
what's happening in my city.
So that that civic engagementbecomes more effective so

(44:50):
that people are more engaged.
And I think by virtue of that,we have a healthier city.
We have a health healthierprocess by which we can all
live in this place together.
And so I think for me it's a,I think I know these things
on one hand, but at the sametime, I think it's really
probably my own leaning in totry to understand that yes,

(45:12):
you are providing a value butthe value is for me and my
quality of life and my city.
And that without that theability for that to fly under
the radar or to not be as goodas what we want it to be there's
some real consequences to that.
So I think it's absolutelya fair question, and I think
that's part of the challengethat you have, and probably
reframing how we thinkabout news in our space.

(45:33):
And I think the challenge isunderstanding that it's part
of my civic responsibilityto support the institutions.
I would say journalism isan institution that are
going to help bring aboutwhat the best possible way
for our community to be.
So that'd be mysoapbox for that.
I don't know if that's agood answer or not, but I
think that's how I've beenthinking about it lately.

(45:53):
And I think if more peoplethought about it that way maybe
that makes those conversations

sam hoisington. (45:57):
easier.
I think so.
And it's weird because localnews is infrastructure, right?
But if I was just like goingaround asking you to give.
As much as you'd liketo the road department.
We probably wouldn't have that.
Nice.
That's right.
It's really, it's atricky place to be in.
It used to be such a wonderfulindustry and they had buildings
in every town and it was likethe New York Times building,
and that's not the case in mostcities around here anymore.

(46:19):
So things change so fast.
And also I think reallywhat, I think there's a
missing part to your answer.
I think.
Please.
And let me say it.
And then you say, if you thinkit's the case, I think things
started to change for you.
Maybe when we shook handsoutside of City Hall that
one night at that meeting.

mike rusch. (46:37):
Yeah, I think that's fair.
I think when you understandthere are human beings
that are doing this work,that care about the city,
this is not a job for you.
You could go get a journalismjob probably somewhere
else and be just fine anddon't have to worry about
trying to convince people tosupport it or go sell ads or
whatever that may look like.
I think it's part of you'rehere because you want to
understand what's happening.
I'm here 'cause I wannaunderstand what's happening.

(46:59):
And that there are real peoplethat are trying to make their
contribution to our city.
And I think, shame onme, shame on any of us.
No.
For not understanding maybeto the depth of what of what
local journalism can really.
Really see, and I think we'reseeing the repercussions of
that, frankly, nationally,whether that be rollbacks
in NPR funding, thosepublic institutions that are
providing local news or opinionor whatever that may be.

(47:23):
When those things becomeunder threat or they become
less it really does threatenthe other institutions that
we rely really heavily on.
And but at the core of it, yeah,I think there's human beings
at the core and we need in manyways to, to recognize that.

sam hoisington. (47:38):
And there, there's no shame
in this game at all.
It's other it's y'all's money,and if you choose to give to I'm
grateful in whatever quantityyou do, but really what we're
talking about is, I have toearn that trust, and I'm okay
with that, taking several years.
It's hard, I got a budget but.
It's about earning trustat scale, but also somehow,
meeting enough people.
Because I'll tell you, as soonas I am, even if I've emailed a

(48:00):
couple times, if I meet somebodyand we have a nice conversation
or coffee or whatever, I'mreally likely to see their
name pop up the next time Isend that fundraising pitch.
'Cause they know thatI'm, a real person.
I'm here because I will say,if you are just on Facebook
scrolling and you see aBentonville Bulletin article
versus a CNN article, they lookthe exact same, don't they?
The post structure is the same.

(48:22):
You don't know that one of thoseis necessarily made with love by
somebody who's from Bentonville.
And once the, it's there's a lotof storytelling that goes into.
Making the storytelling happen.
And I could always doa better job of that.
And so we're gonna do a, I'mgonna do a campaign here at
the end of the year whereI just go through and I say
maybe some of those thingsthat I forgot to say to
everybody throughout the year.
Who does this?

(48:43):
Who is this guy?
What does he want?
Does he have an agenda?
I don't.
And what happens if, Idon't support it, what
happens if I could?
Because also, a lot ofthis is the Bentonville
Bulletin is such an earlystage project that you're
an angel investor right now.
You didn't hit a pay wall,you, you were compelled to
support it 'cause you saw,there's some early stuff here.

(49:05):
I wanna see what happens nexthere, and so getting people
to buy into that is tricky.
But it's also a lot of fun.

mike rusch. (49:11):
No I would agree.
I think the, yeah,I, I don't know.
Maybe we do grow up.
You said the three thingsthat make us American, maybe
the trust of the press maybe.
Can we add that tothe list in some ways?
And I think that hasprobably been eroded in
our culture in many ways.
And so I think this is part,I would hope that this is part
of the reestablishing of thattrust and when it's based in

(49:31):
a human being that we knowand has a vested interest in
understanding what this placeis for the good of this place
I think that builds trust back.
And I think this is why what youdo really matters in that space.

sam hoisington. (49:43):
And that's why I think showing
up in person matters.
I don't do virtual meetings.
If I can help it.
If somebody really insists,sure, if that's what's,
but showing up in person,being there, wearing
something identifiable.
Being somebody that you couldtalk to if you wanted to, I
think is a big part of it,but also it really does.
A lot of, so many of theseproblems come down to

(50:04):
this, just toxicity fromthe national stuff, like
leaking down into it.
And there's actually aresearch report on how to
market local news that cameout from a big foundation.
And one of the thingsthey say is, don't say
journalism anymore.
Don't say that stuffabout democracy.
'cause you're triggering thesepartisan reflexes in people
when you use those words, justfocus on what you provide, which

(50:24):
is a local news update thatis un partisan stories that
you can't get anywhere else.
And I happen to agree with that.
It's what I found as wellit's like there is a big
difference between, Sam, thelocal journalist and somebody
on CNN, but why would I everexpect like a regular human
being walking around to bethinking about these nuances,
and so it is something thatI try to point out a little

(50:44):
bit more because it, I, itcouldn't be more different,
if you really want to, you canfind me and complain in person.
You can in person, you can.
Yeah.
It, it's a big puzzle, butthat's one of the things that
I like about it is, it's gonnatake years to solve this puzzle.
And every time I chipaway at a little bit more
it's a great feeling.

mike rusch. (51:02):
I, I'm curious go forward three years from now
or however far you want to go.
What's your vision forwhat this could become?

sam hoisington. (51:07):
So I think the best thing to do there is to
look at some other markets andstuff like that and see what
they've been able to produce.
And, right now, havingone person do everything
honestly, Mike, that's a,that, that's a terrible idea.
Godspeed to you, Sam.
Yeah.
And it's not really amatter of if I burn out
it's a matter of when.
So I'm doing all right now.
But in, in the new year I wouldlike to get a second full-time

(51:32):
reporter because I would liketo stop telling people, imagine
what it could be in the future,and I'd like to be in the
future, but, you've gotta doit like scaffolding, right?
Okay, you made enough moneyto sustain one person.
Now can you do two?
But in goal, probablyin three years.
Five years is a reallylean team still.
I like, I see threefull-time people probably.

(51:55):
And then more than anything Iwould like to get back to that
collaboration on other stuff.
'Cause not all, theBentonville Bulletin does
not have to be the newspaperof record for Bentonville
or something like that.
I think it's probablyhealthier for us to be one
of the voices I would lovea competitor one day that
would be so sick, interesting.
And that, yeah.
And if anybody wantsto start a competing

(52:15):
thing, I'll help you out.
Let's figure out how to do it.
Because there's a lot of roomto play here and there's a
lot that needs to be covered.
And so I think shortanswers probably like three
full-time people includingme in three to five years.
And maybe just keepgrowing from there.
But people ask me all the time,are you gonna do the Centerton
bulletin, the Bella Vista?

(52:35):
Are you gonna do the spring?
What would you call theSpringdale one Springdale?
I don't know.
The Sentinel.
Sentinel.
That's good.
I was gonna say Roundup.
I don't know why.
'cause the rodeo there.
Yeah.
You gotta have the alliteration.
Yes.
Okay.
But, that's notreally my end goal.
My end goal is to domore and better here.
And I don't think the solutionis ever gonna be to focus

(52:57):
purposefully on increasing thequantity of the news updates.
I think it's about thequality of the news updates.
Not every news articleis created equal, and
so that's gonna be myfocus moving forward.

mike rusch. (53:08):
I'm, I gotta ask, I just listening to you talk
about this, like what, at thecore of what you're doing, like
what's driving you to do this?

sam hoisington. (53:16):
A healthy disregard for my own economic
and physical wellbeing.
Is that a good answer?

mike rusch. (53:21):
That may be why.
Yeah.
No.
What do you wanna see happen?
Like what drives you that,that pushed this forward,
that this work reallymatters and needs to be done

sam hoisington. (53:29):
Well?
I don't I think it's the onlything that I can do that helps
at all with this, just this thiswhat is, what do you call that?
The national stuff.
The weightthe weight, the heaviness, the
fighting and all of that stuff.
And no, it's sounds like ahippie thing, but I really
think that repositioningpeople to think a little bit
more local, it helps a lotwith that national stuff.

(53:52):
Let's just tone down thetemperature just a little bit.
Maybe just once a week whenyou get the newsletter,
think a little bitmore about local stuff.
It really is community focused.
There are a lot easierways to make money.
I will also say Ido enjoy this work.
I enjoy building.
Something new.
I don't mind the uncertainty.
I don't really un,mind the workload.

(54:12):
I'd like a littlebit more money.
We'll get there, we'll getthere to make a healthy living.
But more than anything I thinkI'm just, I just want to help.
That's how I know how to do it.
And also, I'm naturally curious,which has been an issue in
some previous office jobs.
'cause, they'll say todo something, I'm like,
okay, I have five followup questions about that.
And they're like no, you don't.
You need to just dowhat I told you to do.

(54:33):
And I'm not questioningyour authority.
It's just I literally want toknow every single thing that has
ever happened and will happen.
And when I think aboutthe end of my life one day
when I'm 250 years old andI'm, on my deathbed, I like
get really excited aboutthe idea of like how much
stuff I could just know.
And so I don't know if that'sego or what, but I'm, I just,

(54:55):
I'm just naturally curious andI really didn't think about
journalism until freshman yearof college when I realized
that's the only thing thatwould let me keep asking
everybody all these questions.
That's the only thing whereyou can, pull over your car, a
construction site and say, holdup boys, what are you what do
you think you're doing here?
What are you building here?
Tell me, I'm with so andso I guess I like that

(55:16):
little badge so I cankeep asking my questions.

mike rusch. (55:18):
Yeah.
I think that's agreat encouragement.
And I think you're in aposition to probably understand
that a lot better than most.
Alright.
Sam, I'm curious as youlook at this place I do want
to ask, within the worldthat you operate within
the stories that you hear?
What are your fearsfor this place?

sam hoisington. (55:33):
I am deeply concerned about the
affordability situation and.
I feel like we talkabout it a lot.
I have not personally seena lot of solutions to it.
Also, keeping in mind thatevery city in America is
also really strugglingwith housing prices, right?
Nobody that I know hasfigured it out, you see

(55:53):
some affordable housing unitdevelopments coming online.
But they're not enough andit's not gonna be enough.
It's just a fractionof the problem.
And so I really do wonder,and I think everybody worries
about this, of if you havekids right now, when they're
ready to buy their own house,are they even gonna be able
to live in Ton Decatur?

(56:14):
What happens after Decatur?
I don't know.
Is that like where they'regonna be commuting in from just
to be a part of Bentonville?
So I worry about that a lot.
So I honestly believethat these infrastructure
challenges that we have,there's a solution to those.
It might result in extra costto rate payers or developers.
I think those are things thatwe can figure out, but I'm

(56:36):
worried that, people thatare in influential positions
might not even have enoughtime to think about this
overall affordability thing.
It's deeply concerningif you just talk to
normal human people.
So is the economy ofNorthwest Arkansas doing okay?
Sure.
It, things look good, comparedto the rest of the country.
Absolutely.
But, I ask people todo this call it the

(56:57):
$20 an hour challenge.
Go to LinkedIn.
Do the job search, try tofind jobs that pay $20 an
hour or more in Bentonville.
Aside from the obviousplayers, you're not really
gonna find that many jobs.
At least I haven't, it's notterribly scientific, but, there
are opportunities, but theymight not be for everybody.

(57:18):
And, regular people,are gonna be left out if
something doesn't change.
And even when we talk aboutaffordable housing and workforce
housing, we're talking, theconversation's always about,
teachers and firefightersand stuff like that.
I think those aresympathetic characters.
My mom's a teacher,I love teachers.
We've gotta dosomething about that.
I think the school districtis doing something really

(57:39):
unique with what they're doing.
But what about the personthat works at Subway?
They have to live somewhere too.
And if we're alreadyworried about a teacher
that makes 50 or $60,000 ayear, what about half that?
What are we gonna do?
And so that's what I'mworried about and I don't
know that anybody hasa terribly good answer.
But that's obviously thebiggest issue that's coming

(58:00):
up in the next couple decadesis this gonna continue to
be good and, are we gonnabe able to live here?

mike rusch. (58:06):
Yeah, I yeah.
I, you're gonna be preaching tothe choir here at some point.
'cause I would wholeheartedlyagree and I think this is why
I think the attention to theselocal city issues and these
decisions really matter forus all to make the best on
informed decisions so that we.
To the extent can eithercatch up with it or would
be wonderful to get aheadof some of these issues.
And maybe to that, Sam, wetalk the theme of this idea

(58:29):
of community wholeness thatwe've, that I've tried to
thread through all of theseconversations that we've
had, and I'm curious whenI use that term, wholeness.
From your perspective,what does community
wholeness look like to you?

sam hoisington. (58:41):
I think community wholeness
probably looks.
Like everyone finding likewhat they would call like
their people, you're likewhat's your safe place?
Who are your friends?
That, or connectionsthat exist outside of the
workplace and or your family.
And for me, my favorite placein town is two friends books.
Why?
First of all, they got reallycomfy chairs, and I'm not

(59:03):
gonna name names, but thereare some coffee shops out
here that do not have verycomfortable chairs, two friends
books, that's where it's at.
And they just do a lot ofevents and, book related and
otherwise, and I've just found,really good friends there.
And that's my place.
And I'm worried that, ifyou're a new hire that Walmart
spent a lot of money bringingin here that if you don't
find whatever your versionof two friends is, then.

(59:27):
You, you might not stayhere, you might not raise a
family, and obviously it's ineverybody's best interest if you
probably, if you stick around.
And so wholeness to me lookslike an opportunity for
everybody to get pluggedin some way, and I know
that's a vague answer, butwhat would your answer be?

mike rusch. (59:43):
Oh, no, I don't have to answer that question.
Yes, you do.
Yes, you do.
That's the one rule.
Okay.
I've listened.
Yeah, that could be a, that'sa whole series of conversations
that maybe we can go down.
Yeah.
I think at the core ofit, I think the wholeness
conversation, I've, we've hadprobably 70 conversations and
I've asked this question toevery person that I've spoken
with, and there's a lot ofsimilarities in those questions.

(01:00:04):
And I, I think BarbaraCarr, who was one woman deep
admiration for her last season,who just point blank looked
back at me and said, there'sno such thing as wholeness.
Dang.
And I sat there withthat answer to that
question for a long time.
I processed that witha friend, Emma, who was
with me at the time.
And I think through thatprocess, it's been a really

(01:00:25):
interesting thing that it'sthe pursuit of this wholeness
understanding that thereis maybe a slice missing.
That we continue to moveforward in these spaces of
wholeness, pursuing this idea,not giving up and realizing
that the moment we maybethink we've found it we could
act actually be risking it.
And I think that's the conceptthat's been rolling around
in my head here lately ofthis idea that it's gonna

(01:00:46):
be in, in the relationships,it's in the people, right?
It's in the sitting at twofriends having a cup of coffee.
Where we're pursuing these ideasand not growing weary of that.
And so we could talkabout that forever.
I probably, I will probablycut this out because Yeah,
it's not relevant necessarilyto our conversation but it is
relevant to our conversation.
But I don't want to, we'll godown a philosophical rabbit

(01:01:08):
hole there if, be careful.

sam hoisington. (01:01:09):
I don't, I don't have thoughts that deep.

mike rusch. (01:01:10):
Yeah.
So

sam hoisington. (01:01:11):
That's like a philosophy.
There you go.
I thought you werejust asking like, Hey,

mike rusch. (01:01:14):
yeah.
You have to ask very likeblack and white questions,
very pointed questions.
Sam, deeply honored to be ableto spend some time with you
to share a table with you.
Thank you for the workthat you're doing.
I'm a huge believer.
I think it matters deeplyand I just wanna encourage
you to continue to go forwardand be that person that beat
reporter in our community fornow who's uncovering every

(01:01:35):
stone and helping us reallyunderstand and find what it
looks like to pursue this ideaof wholeness in our community.
I think the work you're doingis absolutely a part of that.
And yeah, thanks forbeing here and yeah, keep
doing what you're doing.

sam hoisington (01:01:48):
Thank you, Mike.
That was such a, that wassuch a good hype up speech.
Can I, I can justcall you now, right?
You can, anytimeI tell you that.
Anytime.

mike rusch. (01:01:53):
It's true.
I wouldn't say if it wasn'ttrue, but Absolutely.

sam hoisington. (01:01:55):
Thank you for having me.

mike rusch. (01:01:56):
Yeah, thanks Sam.
Well, I'm incredibly gratefulto Sam for sitting down with
me and for the honesty that hebrings to this conversation.
What struck me most was hisclarity about what's at stake.
Almost 70% of the storiespublished in the Bentonville
Bulletin had no equivalentstory anywhere else.
Almost 70%.
Those are stories aboutsewer infrastructure, about

(01:02:18):
water leaks, about sales taxrevenue, our school funding
stories about the real costof growth and who bears it.
Stories that wouldsimply go untold if Sam
wasn't doing this work.
And I appreciatehis vulnerability
about the challenge.
This isn't charity, it'snot underwritten by large
corporations or by foundations.
It's one person doingthe work trying to build
something sustainable.

(01:02:40):
And he was honest thatconverting people from
fans to supporter isthe very hardest part.
We're so used to gettingincredible things in this
community for little to no cost.
But local journalism isn't free.
It never was.
Someone always pays for it.
The question is whetherwe're willing to be the
ones who pay that now.
So here's my ask ifthis conversation
meant something to you.

(01:03:00):
If you believe that Bentonvilleand even the cities around
Bentonville deserve to havesomeone paying attention, go to
the bentonville bulletin.com,click on the membership
button, and sign up at thehighest level that you can.
Because enabling Sam to dothis job enables all of us
to pursue a community whereeveryone's voice can be heard.
Where the decisionsbeing made at City Hall.

(01:03:21):
They don't fly underthe radar, where we can
actually see ourselves.
Sam said something elsethat stayed with me.
He said one of the most commonquestions in Bentonville
subreddit is how do I makefriends, people move here
for opportunity, but they'relooking for belonging.
Something we've talked a lotabout, and maybe that's what
local journalism really is.
Not just accountability,not just information.

(01:03:41):
But the connective tissuethat helps us know each other,
that helps us know our place.
A community withoutjournalists is a community
that can't see itself.
Let's make sure thatBentonville and our entire
Northwest Arkansas can.
And it looks like this will,or at least it should be our
last episode for the year.
But please know we're inthe process of building into
season three and we have somereally incredible ideas that

(01:04:02):
will hopefully continue thiswork for a long time to come.
I wanna say thank you forlistening and thank you for
being the most important part ofwhat our community is becoming.
This is the underview,an exploration in the
shaping of our place.