the mural with Dr. Rachel Olzer (ep 2b, 39).

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In this episode, Dr. Rachel Olzer, Executive Director of All Bikes Welcome, reflects on what the “All Bikers Welcome” mural symbolizes, the weight of the public fight both personally and professionally, and what it reveals about belonging in Northwest Arkansas. This conversation is not only about a mural, but about who gets to belong in public life, and how a city chooses to shape its character in the face of conflict.

The mural itself, designed by artist Paige Dirksen and painted in collaboration with more than 80 community members and the nonprofit All Bikes Welcome, became far more than paint on a wall. Over six months, it sparked one of the most significant civic debates in Bentonville’s recent history. The City Council split 4–4 on whether to require changes, leaving the mayor to cast the deciding vote. For many, it revealed how national ideological politics and religious nationalism had been carried into local government, turning inclusion itself into a point of division.

https://www.theunderview.com/episodes/the-mural-with-rachel-olzer-all-bikes-welcome-bentonville

About the underview:

The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.

Website: ⁠⁠theunderview.com⁠⁠
Follow us on Instagram: ⁠⁠@underviewthe
Host: @mikerusch

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/theunderview/message

Episode Transcript

rachel olzer. (00:01):
what a joy and what a privilege it is
that Arkansas gets to bethis place where you have the
confluence of this massive boomin cycling and this massive
boom in outdoor recreationand all of the history and
challenge of being in the South.

(00:22):
And it all gets to convergeon Bentonville, and we
get to be a part of that.
That is history making becausewhat is happening in cycling
right now is what happenedwith basketball back in the
day and what happened withfootball back in the day.
And cycling is experiencingthe growing pains of what
it looks like to integratea sport for the first time.

(00:45):
And we get to be a part ofthat, and that's a beautiful
thing, and I'm proud of that.
And that's why I cameto Bentonville because I
wanted to be a part of that.

mike. (01:38):
You are listening to the underview and exploration
in the shaping of our place.
My name is Mike Rusch.
Today we're gonna step intoa conversation about how
public art and cycling shapewelcome and belonging, and
how they sparked one of themost pivotal civic debates in
Bentonville's recent history.
The All Bikers Welcome mural,designed by artist Paige
Dirksen, and created incollaboration with more than

(01:59):
80 community members, includingthe nonprofit organization.
All Bikes Welcome, centeredaround a simple message that
all bikers and all bikesare welcome in the city.
Located under the third streetbridge in Coler Mountain Bike
Preserve, the mural becamefar more than paint on a wall.
It became a lightning rodissue for the city, a place

(02:20):
where ideological politicswere carried into municipal
government, where a messageof inclusion turned divisive
and were debates rooted inreligious values played out
in the City Council chamber.
What should have been aconversation about art and
community instead became areferendum on who belongs, whose
lives are affirmed, and whosevoices are erased or silenced.

(02:40):
And over the nearly sixmonths that this debate
unfolded, one city councilmember called it one of the
most important decisions thatthe city faced in a decade.
The stakes becamevery, very clear.
This was never about coloron a wall, about the very
character of a community thatinvested so heavily in becoming
a destination for cyclingin the arts, could a single

(03:01):
mural tucked under a bridgebe the one thing that called
all of that into question?
Well, today I'm joined by Dr.
Rachel Olzer, the executivedirector of Al Bikes welcome,
the nonprofit organization thatwas at the center of the debate.
Rachel brings her personalstory and her leadership in
outdoor and cycling communitiesto reflect on what the mural
symbolizes, the weight ofthis debate, both personally

(03:22):
and professionally, theimplications of its decision
and what it may teach us aboutbelonging in northwest Arkansas.
We're not here to rehashthe past six months, but to
hopefully find a new beginningpoint to understand what may
be revealed about us and ourcommunity, and to consider
what comes next for this place.
We've got a whole lotto work through today.
Let's get into it.

(03:46):
I have the privilege today ofsharing a table with Dr. Rachel
Olzer, who's the executivedirector of All Bikes welcome.
Rachel, welcome tothe conversation.
We're really glad thatyou'd be here this morning.

rachel olzer. (03:55):
Yeah, thanks for having me.

mike. (03:56):
I appreciate that we're having a conversation
after the final decisionwas made a, around the
All Bikes welcome mural.
And for those that aremaybe just listening in the
Bentonville City Council votedfour to four on the decision
of whether to accept a proposalfrom modification to the mural
with the mayor, making thetie breaking vote in this.

(04:16):
And so we're just afew days after this.
So, I think for many people,I would make the assumption,
maybe correct me if I'mwrong, that this is still
very raw and there's a lot ofprocessing going on, and so
we wanna leave space for that.
But I know that most of thecommunity probably came to
know you or all bikes welcomewhen this was probably
already a point of conflict.
And I want to back up for amoment and maybe step into this

(04:41):
from a human perspective andjust understand, maybe give
you an opportunity to share alittle bit about your background
and your story to give us anunderstanding of who you are
, so Rachel, I'll just say welcomeand yeah, tell us a little of
your story if you don't mind.

rachel olzer. (04:55):
Sure.
Yeah.
I always start withthe big picture.
I'm a black woman.
I'm queer, I'm disabled, andI am a transracial adoptee.
And all of those markers reallyhelp to capture, I think, some
of the complexity of the waysthat I show up in the world
and the things that I hold verydear and precious in my life.

(05:20):
And the ways that I showup to not only advocate for
others, but to advocate formyself to, to exist in a
world that I want to see.
And in a world that.
Is just easier and bringsmore joy to my life.
I grew up in the AmericanSouthwest in Las Vegas, Nevada,
which has shaped so much ofmy, where I have found solace

(05:44):
and joy in the outdoors andbeing outside in just feeling
the sun shining on her face.
And I came into kind of,outdoor recreation as we come
to understand it as an industrythrough my experiences growing
up in the Southwest and aroundmountains and being inspired and

(06:07):
in awe of the vastness of theMojave Desert, the tall peaks.
I have a lot of pridein Nevada and I always.
When I talk aboutrepresentation, I like to also
bring not just conversationsof representation of people,
but of al also places and theway that, being from Las Vegas,

(06:29):
people have an idea of whatVegas is, that is the strip.
And it's always funny to alot of us who are from Nevada
that the strip is like fivemiles of all of Nevada.
And Nevada is one ofthe largest states.
And so it's always funny tome that like my experience
of Vegas and of Nevada is sodrastically different from that.

(06:52):
And that's something that Ithink is, has shaped a lot
of my understanding of whatrepresentation means as well.
And I am also a scholar of both.
Race and gender, but alsoI have a PhD in biology
and I'm very proud of that.
I'm a first generation studentand I like to share that to

(07:14):
this day, even though I havea PhD. Graduating with an
undergraduate degree is stillmy most proud accomplishment.
And I would say, all ofthose kind of capture maybe
a sampling of who I am.

mike. (07:28):
It's beautiful.
Thank you.
I do I think as I listen to you,I, I do like from the beginning,
I want to acknowledge that, Ido, I come to this as a white
cis man in a cycling space.
I know that a lot of yourwork explores that kind
of intersection betweenrace and gender and
class and the outdoors.
And I think my position inthat means that I probably
don't always see things theway that you see things.

(07:49):
And I think maybe from thebeginning, if I could ask what
do you need from me duringthis conversation to create
space where you feel like,yeah, you can share what needs
to be shared given where westart in this conversation.

rachel olzer. (08:02):
I think you're already doing it.
I, I'm not too shy whenit comes to sharing
where I'm coming from.
Obviously if.
I'm gonna say things thatmight be hard to hear
or say things that maybeyou've never thought about.
And, I think just encouragingyourself and listeners to
sit with the complexityof an experience that's

(08:24):
unlike one that maybeyou've ever had to sit with.
I feel uniquely positionedoftentimes because I'm
a transracial adopteeto I have spent a lot of
time around white people.
Like I do think I have a, anunderstanding of some of the
complexity of being, a whiteperson or a cisgender person.
So I'm not too, I'm nottoo shy around that.

(08:46):
So I wouldn't worry about,

mike. (08:48):
I'm not.
Thank you.
That's a incredibleposition of grace.
And so I just from the beginningsay what needs to be said, and
please help me as I stumblethrough this conversation.
But I'm just incrediblyhumbled that you would be
here and that you'd be willingto share your story and
the work that you're doing,because I think it matters.
I think it matters a whole lot.
And it's a conversation that aswe've seen as it relates to one

(09:12):
thing, the mural in Bentonville,it has created a lot of
conversation that I think hasrevealed so many areas where we
haven't had conversation and somuch of where our understanding
needs to be expanded.
And so that, that'show I walk into this
conversation in many ways.
I would I would love to start.
A little bit about maybethis idea of inclusion and

(09:36):
however you want to define it,maybe in cycling and outdoor.
I know that's where a lotof your work has been, but
I'm curious like how do youdefine inclusion in general
or in these spaces and whatare some of the ways that
maybe people misunderstandit from the very beginning?

rachel olzer. (09:52):
Yeah, that's such a good question.
And when I saw that comethrough, I was like, admittedly
at first oh gosh, like I'mfeeling out of my league here
to talk about this becauseit has come up so much in
this debate around the muraland this kind of weaponizing
of all bikes welcome'smission in, are we inclusive?

(10:14):
Are we not?
And I think that it'sreally important to me
to think about inclusionin the context of like.
Why we use the terms weuse to describe working
with marginalized people.
And the term inclusioncomes from diversity,
equity, inclusion.
And I think to me, those termsexist in that order because it

(10:41):
starts with, okay, we need todiversify whatever space it is.
Whether, I come from anacademic background and there
was a lot, like when I wascoming, when the term DEI
started to get popular, I wasin higher education and that
there was a lot of talk aroundjust, you wanna talk about
like white, cisgender spaces.
There is nothing like beingin higher education to

(11:03):
really point that out to you.
And it started with thisidea of, okay, like how do we
diversify these spaces if we'restarting with, okay, all of
our spaces are white and male.
How do we begin toeven change that?
And so you start with, okay,we need more diversity.
And then you get, okay, wehave diversity, but then,

(11:24):
and we may have diversity oflooks and do we have diversity
of experiences and diversityof thought within that?
Now we get to, okay, what doesit look like for there to be
equity within these spaces?
Okay.
Like you can have a space that'sreally diverse, but all of the
people that hold power at thetop and all of the people who do
the legwork are at the bottom.

(11:45):
That's not very equitable,especially in, places of
where pay is involved.
And we, that's likethe most obvious.
Okay, how do we create.
A space where everybodyhas access to the same
resources to, to success.
And then I think, to methe next logical step
from that is inclusion.
And it's okay.
If everybody has access tothese things, does everyone

(12:08):
feel as though those thingsare available to them?
Do, are they includedin the decision making?
Okay, we've providedequitable access to a route
that gives them the right tomake their way to the power.
But now are we including thosepeople and those perspectives
in the decision making?

(12:28):
If we think about this fromthe perspective of outdoor
recreation, we've seen a hugeincrease in the diversity.
Not just of the representationof folks in outdoor
spaces, but actuallyseeing diversity of people.
And then now, wethink about equity.
It's okay, are there, arewe providing folks the

(12:51):
opportunity to recreate, dofolks have access to equipment?
Do they have access to theoutdoors where they are?
And then the last,natural conclusion from
that is, is inclusion.
So are there spaces where peoplefeel safe and welcome and able
to explore in a way that isaffirming of their identity?

(13:14):
And I think a piece of inclusionthat gets really muddled for
people is this idea that if youare creating affinity spaces,
so spaces that are specificto a certain identity, those
are inherently exclusive.
And while I think.
That is true from asemantic point of view.

(13:35):
It is false from the perspectiveof the way that the word
inclusion has evolved tomean welcoming, safe spaces.
And when I think about all bikeswelcome and the work we're doing
to make a more inclusive cyclingcommunity, it is going to
sometimes look like these spacesare only for certain folks in

(13:57):
an effort to right a historicalwrong, and an effort to create
a level playing field and aneffort to create a space where
folks can come together, feelthat safety, so that they can
go out into their communitiesand experience that integration
that we're all really at theend of the day aiming for.

mike. (14:14):
Okay, now I have a hundred more questions.
But I love the way,you think about that.
I think that's really helpfulfor me to understand the
context of how we come tothis conversation with the
same language or a similarunderstanding and maybe
revealing even where I don'tunderstand what people mean.
And I think you're right that,and we've seen this play out
in our community over the pastmonths that we're using these

(14:36):
terms, but yet at the sametime, we don't all have the same
understanding of what they mean.
And so I think starting fromthis point is really important
to understand 'cause I thinkthat'll help us frame not only
the conversation, but I bet ifwe went back and looked at all
of the city council meetingsand all of the conversations.
This would probably become veryapparent as different people
use these terms that we're nottalking about the same thing.

(14:59):
And so thank you for that.
You wrote an article on Bicyclemagazine where you said that
"being a black cyclistmeans that I am all too
aware that this sport wasnot built with me in mind."
And I would love for youyou want to talk about that.
I think this is a reallypowerful quote to put a

(15:20):
framing perspective around.
When we come to Bentonvilleand it's focus on cycling,
this has an automaticdisparity in the starting
point of what that looks like.
So I would love yourfurther thoughts on that.

rachel olzer. (15:32):
Sure.
So you're asking like, fromthis quote, like what is, like,
how does that look in practice?

mike. (15:38):
Yeah, because I think we're building
a city around cycling.
And so what is the inherentlike systemic problem that
exists within building acycling community that did
not have someone maybe asyou would describe yourself
as being in mind for that?
So we automatically havesome correction that we
really need to think aboutthat's going to be important.

(15:59):
So that's my question.
Does that help?

rachel olzer. (16:02):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Gosh, there's so manylayers to this question.
Like what immediately came tomind is just the way that I
ride bikes with white peopleand the way that I ride
bikes with folks of coloris so drastically different
and is almost often at odds.
So I think about likewhen I'm riding with.

(16:22):
White folks, it's very much likewe're in the zone and it's we're
in the wilderness and we enjoythe peace and quiet, and we
don't, we're not really there'sno riffraff, if you will.
And it's like when I'm ridingwith folks of color, it's
like there's often musicplaying and it's hip hop
and we're laughing and we'redancing and we're, twerking

(16:42):
on the, on, on the trail.
And it's just it, there is alot of like jovial spiritedness,
spiritedness to the experiencethat I think oftentimes when
we encounter white folks on thetrail is really like jarring for
both people, for both groups.
And sometimes white people arelooking down on the ways that

(17:05):
black people and folks of colorwant to experience the outdoors.
Because we're coming atit from potentially trying
to meet different needs.
And I think that's okay, butI also think that it's really
disrespectful to either group toassume that one's, one group's
needs are more important orhave more of a right to be met.

(17:26):
If you're coming at it fromnature is my solace and I
need silence, and that's how Irestore, versus I actually just
wanna be with my people and Iwant it to feel like a party.
And that's what I need.
Neither of thoseneeds is grander.
It's just that thoseare different needs.
And so I think about it fromjust just that like alone is
so different, but then, youget to like deeper systemic

(17:47):
issues of if we think aboutBentonville and the way that
accessing trails is reallydependent on what part of
the town you live in and.
I lived in a part ofBentonville that was like
really hard to get to trails.
There are no trails near me.
And it is like crossing yourfingers and toes and hoping
you get there in one piece,riding from your house, you

(18:09):
know, versus, you know, there'sother parts of town where
you can leave out your backdoor and you're right on a
trail and you can map that tothe socioeconomic landscape
of Bentonville quite easily.
And that can be, that isnot unique to Bentonville.
That is pretty much onthe whole across the US.

(18:32):
And so I think there's both thatscaled up version of yeah, I
mean does your neighborhood havea basketball court or does your
neighborhood have a bike trail?
Depending on which ofthose you have access to
is gonna change the courseof your life potentially.
And that maps to racemore often than not.
I think you can see thoseboth in the like big

(18:55):
picture and in those likeinterpersonal interactions.

mike. (18:59):
Rachel I think in that just what you shared, it,
it reveals a whole lot ofconversations that we're not
having at least not publiclyin places like northwest
Arkansas that is building aplace and a destination and an
experience around trails andcycling, which is wonderful.

rachel olzer. (19:17):
Mm-hmm.

mike. (19:18):
Within That, we are carrying things into it.
It feels to me, some thingsthat we don't fully understand
and maybe why these kindsof conversations become so
necessary and maybe a revelationabout why they become points
of conflict, because that deepunderstanding, both historically
and in current day, yeah.
We're just not allstarting at the same point
from this conversation.

(19:38):
So I feel like, again, wecould talk about what you
just mentioned a wholelot, and I would hope there
are other people that areworking on this conversation.
I know you and all bikeswelcome are working on
this conversation, but it,I think it's, yeah, it's
necessary and needed in that.

rachel olzer. (19:53):
And that also makes me think of like
the term racism itself andthe way that's evolved to,
like I think not that longago, people would often use
that term to mean like theirinterpersonal interactions.
And I think still do to someextent oh, racism means like
that white people are meanto black people, and now

(20:17):
we've evolved to understandlike racism is systemic and
it occurs like in the waythat we build our world.
And I think that highlightsthe way that language evolves
with our understanding of thesesystemic, like bigger issues.
Particularly as it appliesto the ways that marginalized

(20:40):
people move through the world.
So I just wanted toput that out there.

mike. (20:44):
So maybe before we get there, I you have a
lot of experience in thesespaces, not just whether it be
academically or professionallybut in just life experience.
I know before you came toNorthwest Arkansas, you were
living in Minneapolis and youwent through that in the wake
of George Floyd's murder.
And so I think this issomething that I would assume

(21:07):
you carry with you into alot of these conversations
having lived within that spaceas these events took place.
And so I think, I guess myquestion, it doesn't feel
like, this is not your firsttime to have to face the
reaction of a city to calls ofinclusivity or representation.
And I would love.
If you're willing to share,like what do you carry from

(21:28):
that time and that experiencethat really maybe helps inform
how you think about approachingand we'll get to the city
council conversation, but Ithink you're starting in a
much different place than mostpeople in northwest Arkansas.

rachel olzer. (21:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean I had the very luckyprivilege of having the
confluence of doing a PhD,which is one of the hardest
things you can do livingthrough, COVID while I was
trying to finish a PhD and,the uprising in 2020 in the
wake of George Floyd's murder.

(22:00):
And man, that was one of thehardest things, like just the
confluence of all of those,I think to paint kind of a
bigger picture around that.
So I lived in Minnesota,in Minneapolis from 2015
to 2021 through 2021.
And so obviously within therewas the uprising in 2020.

(22:22):
But even before that, my firstyear living in Minneapolis,
within the first four months,there was the unjust murder
of a a young black man on thenorth side of Minneapolis.
And there were protestsoutside of the precinct
on the north side.
Four gunmen showed up one nightto those protests and masks

(22:43):
and shot into the crowd andpeople were injured and harmed.
The year after that, in 2016Philando Castile was murdered.
Not one mile bird's eyeview from my office at the
University of Minnesota.
And I was part of a task forceto help the city try to figure
out how to move through that.

(23:03):
And that was aninteresting experience.
And it really, it was likeevery summer there was
some big unjust experiencebetween a black person and
the police de like a policedepartment in the Twin Cities.
And at the same time Iwas coming of age, I was,

(23:26):
experiencing being a youngadult and I was leaning
into cycling in a big way.
I was using it as amode of transportation.
I was using it as an opportunityto get to know the city.
And one thing I love about theMidwest and especially the upper
Midwest, is that they reallyembrace cycling in a big way.
Minneapolis is continuallyone of the most bike
friendly cities in the us.

(23:46):
And it's beautiful.
And in the summer thingscome alive and the city just
completely transforms andit's such a joyous experience.
But I remember after thosefirst two years, every summer
in that early part of thesummer, around May and June,
there was this anxiety thatwould build in me because I
knew something was coming.

(24:07):
And that was really myfirst experience with the
ways in which this is anorm for black people who
live in urban environments.
And.
I grew up in a city, but itwas much, much different.
And I think living in Minnesotawhere there is this really

(24:28):
interesting history of havingbeen a part of the civil war
and having been a part ofthat north versus south, I
had never, that's not reallya part of growing up in the
American Southwest, like theAmerican Southwest is very new.
And while we have ourown problems with racism
and marginalization,it's very different.
And so coming into Minnesota,I was experiencing for the

(24:51):
first time this big divide.
And at the same time, Minnesotais a state that prides
itself on being the onlystate that's never gone red
in a presidential election.
People pride themselveson being liberal.
And I had to like contendwith the fact that I was so
excited to come into that andthen realizing oh, liberal

(25:12):
racism sucks just as much.
Like I was not expecting that.
And it was almost worse becausepeople, I was experiencing
for the first time thisreally like in my face racism.
And it was made worse bythe fact that because people
identified so heavily withbeing on the right side of

(25:32):
history through the Civil War,that they were less willing to
see that they had a problem.
And so anyway, that's allto just set a scene for the
fact that what came in 2020,I think for a lot of us who
had been living in that citywas not a surprise at all.
And also it's almost surprisingthat it's, it was that specific

(25:55):
interaction that triggered thishuge uprising because it had
been almost so commonplace forus that something like that
was happening every summer and.
Because I think COVID wassetting the stage for so much,
I think unrest just within ourhomes and within ourselves.

(26:17):
People were tuned in andthey were looking for
somewhere to channel that.
And George Floyd's murderreally gave them this outlet.
Like people were already pissedabout so much that was going on
in our country and in our world.
And I think in a similar way,the mural gave folks that
in Bentonville, there's somuch un like unrest happening

(26:40):
there of like folks feelingthe frustration of the
growing pains of the area.
And the mural kind of gave theman outlet for that frustration.

mike. (26:51):
Gosh, I. Yeah, I, I would not have thought about
it that way until you maybeconnected some of those dots
or bring that into context.
And I, yeah, I'm gonna haveto think about that one for a
little while and not, not thinkabout it like, is it true?
But I think the implicationsof that are really deep and
really wide around the culturalmoment that we are in and

(27:13):
change in belonging and maybehow frustration or fear really
works itself out in a city.
And for you to maybe connectthose two things, really I think
it puts the mural conversationin a not, it's not the same as
what happened in Minneapolis.
I, I wanna be real clear, butI think maybe these are the
early fires, for lack of betterwords that start to burn.

(27:35):
That yeah, can, that maybe wecan keep in mind about why this
does matter and why this becamesuch a conversation point.
So I don't know if that's fairor not, but that's my rambling
at the moment as you say that.

rachel olzer. (27:47):
Yeah, and I think to your question, 'cause
I don't know that I actuallyanswered it, like having lived
through that did give me a lotof confidence that like not
to diminish the accomplishmentthat was facing the city
council in Bentonville, butalso it's like I can face the
city council in Bentonville.
Like it, I can face the citycouncil in a relatively like

(28:11):
medium sized town in the south.
If I can mobilize.
The largest racialuprising and be in the city
where it is ground zero.
I think I'll be okay.
Because one thing thatis so underappreciated by
folks who were not livingthere at the time is that
Minneapolis became a war zone.

(28:32):
Truly it was extremelydifficult to live through.
There was a period of timewhere everything was boarded up.
I stood in line toget my groceries at
a mutual aid center.
Tanks like the National Guardpoured out of the capitol every
day, tanks lined the cities,and that was the case, not just
for a couple months in 2020.
That was the casebasically, until I left,

(28:55):
until after the trial.
And part of the reason I hadto leave is because I ha I
couldn't leave my house anymore.
Like I was soterrified to leave.
Like I just.
It was like affecting me deeply.
And I still feelguilty for leaving.
I say all that because it'syeah, I, if I can survive
that, as much as it's thismural stuff has been very

(29:17):
painful, I know I'll be okay.
I'll get through it.

mike. (29:21):
Well, And I guess Rachel, my, if, that ultimately
is part of the reason thatyou came to Bentonville.
Yeah.
I'm curious what yourexpectations or your
experience was as youstepped into this place.
As maybe a new place toyou or what your hopes
were when you came here?

rachel olzer. (29:37):
Yeah, I mean I, I've been reflecting
on that a lot latelyas I move through this.
Ooh, like I didn't necessarilywant things to go this way,
but I'm also coming to thisunderstanding of I don't know
if I have much of a choice ofwhere the work goes and maybe
there's just like a levelof acceptance I need to have
in that because ultimatelyI came to Arkansas because I

(30:00):
wanted to make good troubleand I wanted to do good work.
And that is happening andI don't think you get to
choose what catapults yourwork into the spotlight.
And I think that's somethingI'm really wrestling with,
we've done such good work andwe've gotten great, really a
truly great recognition forthe good things we've done,

(30:20):
outside of this mural stuff.
And I was always so frustratedby the lack of visibility
for our work locally.
Like we had gotten so muchnational attention and I can
go, I go to these other placesand people know about the
work we're doing, but likelocally, it never felt like I
was able to have people boughtinto the work in a way that

(30:42):
felt really validating of thework itself until this mural.
And so in some ways it'sI don't know, I'm trying
to find the humor in that.
Like, Okay, well at leastpeople know who we are now.
I, it, if I had had achoice, I don't think it
was the one I would've made.
Certainly.
And especially because it.
It was nice all along tobe able to work in, in

(31:03):
silence and in the shadows.
And now that's not somuch a possibility.
But I do think, and I do reallybelieve that this work is most
needed in the south in placeslike Arkansas and what a joy
and what a privilege it is thatI get that Arkansas gets to be
this place where you have theconfluence of this massive boom

(31:25):
in cycling that happened as aresult of COVID and this massive
boom in outdoor recreationand all of the history and
challenge of being in the South.
And it all gets to convergeon Bentonville and we
get to be a part of that.
That is history makingbecause what is happening

(31:46):
in cycling right now?
Is what happened withbasketball back in the
day and what happened withfootball back in the day.
And like cycling is experiencingthe growing pains of what
it looks like to integratea sport for the first time.
And we get to be a part of that.
And that's a beautifulthing, and I'm proud of that.
And that's why I cameto Bentonville because I

(32:08):
wanted to be a part of that.

mike. (32:10):
Gosh i've never heard anybody equate this to other
movements in other sports, butI guess again, as you say this,
it's so accurate and powerful.
It's crazy.
As I hear you talk aboutthis, it becomes so strikingly
clear what this means and whythis is such important work.
And you said something thatI read you, you wrote an

(32:31):
article that we'll put intothe show notes of this,
that you're quoted as saying"one of the most overlooked
aspects of justice is movement."And you say, "I argue that
movement is one of the mosthuman experiences that we can
have to move, is to be human,to be alive, to experience
the fullness of life."And you go on with for a while
talking about this, but Imaybe give us a context about

(32:52):
why this is so important andhow is this idea of movement
and justice connected Becauseit, it sounds really powerful.

rachel olzer. (33:02):
Yeah.
I think, yeah, wheredo I even begin?
I think again, like so manythings, movement is critical
when we like zoom out and lookat the way that people evolve
and change and understandlike how we got to where we
are now, but then also inour individual lives, right?
So much of this increasein understanding of mental

(33:24):
health is connected tomoving and moving our bodies
and being in our bodies.
And trauma, so much of trauma,personal trauma is the severing
of our spirit and our mind andour body, and it keeps us like
disconnected from our bodies.

(33:45):
And I think in the same waybig, if we look at and zoom
out and think about like bigtraumas or the ways that,
people and movements comeabout, the ability for people
to move is a big part of it.
So when I talk about movement,I think of course this
aspect of just like beingable to ride my bike and
the fact that's a big deal.

(34:05):
And being able to move mybody is a big deal for my
own processing of trauma andfor my own joy and for my
own access to just like allof the full range of human
emotions and experiences.
But then when I zoom out andeven think about the ways
that movement is criticalfor families fleeing, systems
that are unsafe for them, orenvironments that are unsafe,

(34:28):
or when I think about, theways that enslaved people
in the south were physicallybeing moved out of the
south in order to escape.
Or when I think aboutthe fact that we are.
Constantly trying to across theworld, not just the us, trying
to keep people from movingout of the situations they're

(34:49):
in, into something better.
Like movement is such acritical piece of how humans
survive and that is why weare, the powers that be are
always trying to restrict that.
And that can look as big asbuilding a wall on the border
of, between the US and Mexico oras local as refusing to build a

(35:12):
bike lane to make things saferfor people to leave their house.
Like I genuinely believethose things are deeply
connected and that is whyI think I am so impassioned
by this work that we.
Give marginalized adultsan opportunity to connect
to something that they maynever have an opportunity to

(35:33):
connect with through cycling.
And I believe that this workexists to give people an
outlet for dealing with thebasic everyday stresses of
life, but also in a biggersense to help them imagine
something that they could dothat's bigger than themselves.
I didn't grow up thinking Iwas going to do this work.

(35:55):
And so bikes have reallytaken me to a big to a world
so much bigger than myself.
And when I was goingthrough grad school,
cycling really helped memanage my mental health.
But it specifically in2020 when I was living,
at the epicenter of thismovement for Black Lives.
Being able to go out on abike trail was what helped

(36:16):
remind me that there wasstill beauty in the world.
And I'm, and I meanthat so deeply.
Like when you are living inthis container of violence that
was Minneapolis in 2020, itis so easy to become hopeless.
And it was so easy to becomehopeless and to fear moving.

(36:37):
And like it was going out onbike trails, it was traveling
to see, little towns inMinnesota that had bike trails.
That helped remind melike there is beauty
still worth fighting for.
And it helped restoreme in that way.

mike. (36:53):
Rachel, that's, yeah, it's beautifully said and yeah,
beautifully embodied, I thinkin the work who you are and
the work that you're doing.
And I think it gives acontext of there's a bigger
conversation at play here.
And while the mural is importantwhat the mural symbolizes is
something of great value andsomething that we don't think
about in those terms very often.

(37:14):
I think one thing that may behelpful in this conversation
is that because so many peoplecame to know all bikes welcome
at when it was already in aplace of conflict it's, to
me it always seemed funny.
Not like, ha ha, but likefunny, like weird that all
Bikes welcome was put in thisbucket for lack of better

(37:34):
words of being exclusionary.
But, the originstory of All Bikes.
Welcome comes from aplace of necessity.
And I'll, that's my term, but Iwould love for you to maybe give
us a little understanding ofwhy is all bikes welcome, needed
and necessary in this community?

rachel olzer. (37:50):
Yeah.
I, I mean, We started as justa, we really, the nuts and
bolts we started as a grantto help connect marginalized
people to soft surface trailsand, and really just to connect
people to soft surface trailsas Bentonville was becoming
known for its recreation.

(38:12):
I, yeah, I first cameto Bentonville in 2015.
That at that point.
Like there was like onetrail at Kohler there wasn't
a lot, but there was enoughthat I was like, Ooh, this
place is gonna be awesome.
This is really something.
And since 2015 I drove down infrom Minneapolis I would come
down every winter for a week toescape the winter in Minnesota

(38:36):
and get to be on sick trails.
And it was fun to get to seethe ways that Bentonville
was evolving as a place thatlike more and more people
were coming to and thetrails were being built out.
And it was just awesome toget to see the ways that
they were blazing a new pathwhen it comes to what does
it look like to do this work?
And in terms of creating a townthat centers around cycling.

(38:58):
And at the same time I wasliving in Minneapolis, it's
a highly segregated city.
I was in a higher education.
I did not have a lot offolks of color in my life.
And so I started, lookingfor people online to connect
with, to ride bikes withwho were folks of color, who
were, queer, who were likemore women to ride with.

(39:22):
And I just started likeorganizing trips to do that.
And we ended up in Bentonvillein 2019 to do that.
And it was really fun.
And so when I came into thiswork with All Bikes welcome,
like my focus was on knowingthe power that Affinity
spaces have to energizepeople to go off into their

(39:44):
communities and be able tospread the joy to others.
And so I came into itwith this we are creating
programming for all and.
We absolutely have to buildit with marginalized people
in mind and knowing thatmarginalized people like need
spaces that are just for them.

(40:06):
And I think the thing thatpeople don't understand about,
like the need for AffinitySpaces is that the goal isn't
to stay in them indefinitely.
The goal is to be energizedby them so that you can
go out and be integratedand be among everyone.
And so we build our calendar outto be able to have programming

(40:27):
that's open to everybodyand programming that is
specifically built for certainmarginalized groups in mind.
And there, and that ishow you do this work.
Because if you don't specify.
The unfortunate result ofthat is that you will get the
same exact people every time.
Like I guarantee it andI see it all the time.

(40:50):
And if you do specify, itwill, like they, if you
build it, people will come.
And so we have rides thatare open to everyone.
We have events thateverybody is welcome at,
nobody is turned away.
And then we have events thatare specifically a space
built for people who needthat space more than others.

(41:10):
And if some people view thatas exclusionary, there's
nothing I can do about that.
I know it worksbecause I see it.

mike. (41:18):
And I would maybe just the elephant in
the room sometimes isthat there are other.
Affinity groups thatexist within cycling
around our town, right?
This is not an uncommon practiceand it's necessary and needed
to grow people into all of thethings that are so beautiful
about what the cycling worldhas to offer in many ways.
It does feel, and I'm, I'mbiased here, of course, but

(41:40):
that there was a spotlightplaced on all bikes welcome
as being an exclusionary.
Yet the things that you'redescribing are not uncommon
in parts of the cyclingworld where there may be our
women only types of spacesbut it's not uncommon from
our city or our churchesor our other spaces like

rachel olzer. (41:57):
That

mike. (41:57):
those affinity groups have a reason and are valid and
we don't seem to be threatenedby them in other places.
But for some reason, this becamea conversation for those that
maybe were not as in favor ofthe mural as we would've hoped.

rachel olzer. (42:11):
And I also am not naive enough to think
that the re that even if weallowed cisgender men, the
reason they had an issue withit is because we specifically
allow transgender people.
And that is I'm not playingthis game that like their issue
had something to do with themnot being, this is specifically
because people that they don'twanna see exist in public, our

(42:35):
existing in their public spaces.
Period.

mike. (42:38):
Well, Let's go there.
maybe give us a frameworkfrom your perspective when you
realize that this mural wasgoing to become a central point.
Where did you start to see that?
What was like, walkus through your Yeah.
As you watched this kindof become what it did.

rachel olzer. (42:54):
And Paige can back this up.
I said to Paige when it was,when we were putting it up,
don't be surprised if peoplehave an issue with this.
And not because I thought wewere doing anything wrong,
but because I know how thisgoes, like I, I have been a
part of enough controversyand a part of enough movements
to know that if there is anissue, people will find it.

(43:15):
And it was actually funny,I think at the time Paige
was like, no, I don't, youknow, like, what could they
possibly have an issue with?
And we've even talked aboutthis since then of like,
we kinda, we did talk aboutthis, but the second that
Paige, so Paige came to me atthe beginning of this year.
I wanna say it was like maybeFebruary or March about,
the email from the mayorand I was like, immediately,

(43:39):
this is about, this is notabout the contract, this is
not, this is about the factthat they don't like people
like us and they don't wantpeople like us to exist.
That is not, they can frame ithowever they wanna frame it.
That has never beennot clear to me.
And I think it's tricky becauseI, my goal from the outset from

(44:02):
the first City council meetingwas to force their hand a bit
and make them say it out loud.
Don't make us like, don'tmake this issue that
these small vocal minorityof folks are having.
Be something that we haveto cater to make them
say what their issue is.
And ultimately, I guessin that sense, I think

(44:22):
we achieved that goal.
So yeah, it, it was clear tome from the beginning because
I, and I also am not naiveenough to think that just
because we have support for ourwork, that there aren't plenty
of people who don't supportit, especially in Arkansas.
And that's why we existin Arkansas because the
majority of queer and transpeople are in the south.

(44:44):
And that is the same placewhere they are constantly
under attack back.

mike. (44:48):
Rachel, I'm curious, as you saw this kind of unfold,
I don't wanna put words inyour mouth, but to me it feels
like and what I, maybe whatI saw was a pretty big power
dynamic that was at play here.
I'm curious what you sawfrom your perspective about
yeah, that power dynamic andwhat it was and how it worked
itself out, and maybe howit changed over the process.

rachel olzer. (45:10):
Yeah, it was very apparent from the
beginning, I think, especiallyas they would, as the,
vocal minority would lean oncity council to use formal
processes as a smoke screenfor like their bigger issue.
Because ultimately at theend of the day I recognize
that their issue isn'twith the mural at all.

(45:30):
Their issue is withall bikes welcome.
I'm very aware of that.
They don't want us to exist.
The mural was just anopportunity for them to
like, to get that, to takea dig maybe, or to put that
in that it was an easiestthing for them to access.
But even the ways that therewas so much lack of leadership

(45:50):
from the city to even usetheir processes to try and
force our hand or to like.
As a willing participantin that smokescreen
was really interesting.
I also think, and Paige andI have talked about this,
that it is not lost on us.
That if she was a woman ofcolor, this would've gone
totally differently if shewas queer, if she was trans,

(46:13):
like that we are, it is botha sad reality and the reality
that led to this victory thatbecause she is a white woman,
it is, this outcome is morelikely possible because of that.
And I think I personally sawthat in the ways that the

(46:34):
council interacted with me.
Like that was deeply hurtful.
I think that like the ways thecouncil, the ways the other
supporters of this mural, theways that even the detractors
the folks on the other side.
It was deeply painful to knowthat, especially at the last
meeting, the way the councillooked, Paige in the eyes and,

(46:55):
praised her and appreciated her.
And this didn't justhappen at the last meeting.
This happened at everyother meeting before that.
And then would look at me andall bikes welcome and blame us
for, for the Arkansas peoplearticle that was written.
Like we had nothing to,you know, or for the hatred
they were getting thathad nothing to do with us.

(47:15):
But they, the continuednarrative was that it was
all bikes welcome, thatwe were pushing something.
And from my perspective, weonly ever stood in support of
Paige and behind Paige and theway that the council continued
to not only allow other peopleto lie, but to perpetuate their

(47:37):
own lies about the organizationthat were deeply damaging.
That to me is not onlyunprofessional, but it's
uncivil and cruel and targetedand all the things that they
claimed we were doing tothem were being done to us.
And I, they are not aware thatit's a racial issue, but it's

(48:00):
very clear to everybody thatcan see that for what it is.

mike. (48:05):
Yeah, I think Rachel, I would, I would
affirm your comments.
uh, As I walk through it, youknow, watching what's happened,
it's hard to not draw thosesame conclusions, right?
What's at the center of thisis not maybe that mural and
colors on a wall, that itreally is something broader.
And I've had a lot ofpeople ask, what are we,
what is going on here?
What is happening?

(48:26):
Why is this such a big deal?
And I think I'm gonna pointthem back to your comments here
as a understanding of what,what was being carried into
this into this conversation.
I would ask you this.
If you want to, and I don'twanna put you on the spot, but,
you mentioned just that, thatrelationship between you and
Paige, how did the two of youwalk through that together?

(48:47):
If that's something thatyou would wanna speak to.

rachel olzer. (48:50):
Yeah, I adore Paige and she is a good
friend and I'm so lucky thatis the foundation of our
relationship going into this.
The way that we've walkedthrough this mural situation
together has evolved alot from the beginning.
And, I think initially I wouldhave I think I saw myself

(49:10):
in more of like coaching herthrough this of I think because
I was very aware from the first.
There being a first issuethat the, that this was
targeted and that there,this was not by accident.
Like, I think one, when you'rea marginalized person, there
is like a sixth sense, fromhaving dealt with these types
of issues over and over.

(49:31):
You just know.
And then I also think being aleader in this space, like I'm
very aware of how, what I wouldcall the various isms show up.
And so I think, initiallywhen she came to me it was
like, okay, there, it'sjust like there are there is
this kind of contract issueand should we just do it?
And quietly, and I was like,and I told her, I think even

(49:54):
at that point I said they gotlucky that it was a contract
thing, that they that the designdeviated from the original.
Because I think even ifit hadn't, they would
find something else.
And lo and behold,they kept finding, kept
digging and digging.
And so I think there was alot initially of me trying to
coach her through Hey, I don't,I really don't actually think

(50:18):
that's the issue and this iswhat I think the issue is.
This is what Ithink we should do.
And there was a lot of,she had a lot of trust in
me, which I'm grateful for.
I think it was very helpful.
You know, We brought otherpeople on and, as more
people came on to validatekind of my place or where I
was coming from, I think itreally helped her build some

(50:40):
trust in like, yeah, thisis a fight worth fighting.
And then it's, you know, it'sbeen a real joy to see her
just not need me anymore andlike figure out for herself,
like what she wants to do.
And.
There's al there's beena lot of checking in of
this is what I'm thinking.
What do you think?
And, and, And I'll admit likeit's, there have been tears

(51:02):
together and there's been alot of like, when she came
to me with that she was gonnapropose this change to the city.
I was like, it was reallyhard for me to hear I was,
and not because I think themural serves as a billboard,
but because I was like, I'mnot sure if I think this
changes anything for them.

(51:22):
And I was also always veryaware of the potential
that they would try to comebetween us as a tactic and.
Again, luckily Paige and Ithink, have a good enough
friendship that was nevergonna be successful.
But I think that theoutcome from Tuesday is
the closest they could get.

(51:44):
Let's villainize theorganization, accept
this proposal, praisethe artist, and move on.
And I think since then, asI've worked through a lot of
my feelings about the outcome,it has been hard at times to
be like, man I don't believethat Paige had anything but
our best interest in mind.
But it really hurts thatshe comes out on top and the

(52:07):
organization basically likenothing good, really came for
us as a result of all this.
And we stood so firmly with her.
And that's not somethingthat she has control over,
but I think is a truth thateveryone who is involved in
the organizing has to sitwith and I think owes it to

(52:30):
themselves to sit with thefull complexity of what this
work looks like in action.

mike. (52:35):
I think that dynamic that you described of, a tactic
of trying to get between youand Paige would make, makes
a lot of sense, i'm curiousafter the decision was made.
And to your point that theorganization really had
nothing good come of it.
How do you view that?
Is that I hear you sayingthat's what the organizers
need to think about that, and Ithink that's absolutely valid.

(52:58):
Is that part of the decisionthat was, that was ultimately
arrived at, is this becauseit was maybe reflective of
the system and its biases in away that maybe we're not aware
until you bring this to light?
Is this part of thesystemic problem even
in the solution itself?

rachel olzer. (53:17):
I think, yes.
I think that this, one,we love a Messiah story
and that, that is so humannature, every movement, right?
We love somebody to be theface and for better or worse,
Paige is a great face of this.
She is a mom, she is awife, she's a white woman.

(53:39):
She cares deeply aboutthe work she does.
She does good workin the community.
She has a clean record.
She is a good face for this.
And I am not really, andI accept that like I fight
hard for the people I love.
I have a deep stake in thisand sometimes that's not
something we care about.

(53:59):
I think one thing I've reallylearned a lot through this
work is that we love a whiteperson who does equity work.
We love a white personwho does equity work.
I don't know what that is.
I don't know if it's likewe appreciate more that they
don't have a stake in it.
I don't know.
But that is very, that hasbecome very clear to me.
I have a deep stake in this.

(54:20):
I'm black, I'mqueer, I'm disabled.
My partner is trans.
This work is.
Deeply me.
But I think also I thinkas I reflect through this,
I'm not a crisis PR person.
I've had to showup and become one.
I may be, if I had known thiswas the outcome, if I had
known the organization wouldbe painted in the light,

(54:42):
it was maybe I would'vetaken a different approach.
I think, my approach fromthe beginning was like, we're
gonna focus on the mural.
We're not gonna, we'regonna force them to say
the quiet parts out loud,but at the end of the day,
this is Paige's mural.
This is her art.
I think maybe I would haveshifted the approach to

(55:04):
what is the issue theyhave with the organization.
I don't, and maybe found a wayto like address that, but I
don't know, when you're playing,you're entering an arena, right?
And you have to be sostrategic about how you
approach, especially inthe arena of politics.
I don't know that there wasa lot of room for nuanced

(55:25):
conversation around well, isyour issue with trans people?
Because it was veryclear, it was on multiple
occasions I was very clearto the people tuning in.
But I don't know if there wasroom in the political arena
to have a conversation aboutthat would help humanize
the organization in a waythat could shift the focus

(55:46):
in a productive direction.
And so I. I think you're,I guess to your question,
yes, I think that it is anoutcome of the way that we
build these systems to work.
Every person on that council,but one was white and none
of them are trans and noneof and as far as we know, and

(56:08):
the person they were gonnasee themselves in was Paige.
And it wasn't gonna be me, andit wasn't gonna be the people
that my organization serves.
And for better or worse, a lotof the folks who supported the
murals message and wanted themural to stay related to Paige.
And in that waythat's successful.
We did the right thing there.

(56:28):
I would just hope that we aren'tjust for a message of inclusion,
but that we are supporting thepeople who put that message
into action, and that's alwaysbeen my goal with the mural and
with this organizing effort.

mike. (56:45):
Rachel, thank you.
I thank you for going there.
I know this is, we're stillprocessing this, but I think
this is a significant partof the conversation to really
maybe pull these thingsapart to understand that
there are systemic thingsinvolved that does not excuse
organizers or people who wantto be allies in this work.
But it's a part of it in themoment that I think we move

(57:07):
fast not to make excuses.
I'm not saying there's noexcuse, but you're moving so
fast to try to take all thesethings into consideration and
not knowing the outcome isdifficult to walk through.
All bikes welcome madea public statement.
You said"it's not enough to endorse
a message of inclusionin Bentonville. We need
our community to activelysupport inclusive practices
and the people workingto make them a reality."

(57:30):
I'm curious within that, whatis, I don't know if allyship
is the right word to use here?
Maybe it's justbeing a human being?
But what does it looklike to move beyond
statements but to action.
What would you askof our community?

rachel olzer. (57:44):
Gosh, I have so many like thoughts and
feelings that I'm still through.
It's it's as simple asI've seen you at this city
council meeting before.
I'm gonna walk up to you andsay hi and introduce myself.
I've talked about this withfriends since the last meeting
of like, why are white men soafraid to be uncomfortable for

(58:04):
just like even a second, right?
It's I know you know who I am.
Why won't you say hi to me?
And what is it?
And you know, my friend,I had a friend who was
like, there is a factor ofintimidation and I get that.
But even that is a form ofdehumanizing 'cause it's at
the end of the day, not only amI just a fellow person, we're
all here for the same thing.

(58:26):
It's as simple as that, right?
It's as simple as likesending a message and
being like, Hey, like I'mfollowing your organization.
I'm so excited to learn more or,I think would've, what really
would have meant a lot to meis for some of those folks to
have come up to me and said,I saw what happened in there
and I just want you to know,I didn't think it was okay.

(58:48):
And I don't wanna cry or getemotional, but it's with my
background, like that wassomething that was I was
so starved of growing up.
And it just, sometimesthe simplest things make
the biggest difference.
And sometimes all you wantis for somebody to just
validate your reality and inthe celebration to be able to

(59:08):
just look over and say like,I still really believe in
the work that you're doing.
And that's it.
And yeah, we got to keep thismural, but I know that it came
at a cost and just to see itand feel like you're not just
imagining and and obviouslythere's a lot of deeper work
that needs to happen and wehave to of course vote in

(59:30):
people that make policies thatmatter and we have to speak
up when trans people aren'tallowed to use the bathroom.
And we have to do all thesethings and we have to support
the people on the front lines.
'cause I will tell you that itis really traumatizing work.
Like aside from just likethe ways that my organization

(59:53):
was thrown under the bus,like to have to sit through
multiple meetings of peoplelike questioning and debating
your right to exist, thepeople you love's right to
exist is I can't even maketo explain what that is.
It is horrible.
And, for somebody to just comeup and say can I give you a hug?
I think you like,you really matter.
And I really am gladthat you're here.

(01:00:14):
That's meaningful.

mike. (01:00:16):
When we, after the decision was made there
was a group outside.
I, I walked outside and, Ithink, the natural reaction or
the expectation is you wouldwant you would expect people
would be celebrating, right?
But when I walked outside, itwas very palatable that I know.
I didn't know what todo with all of that.
The weight, in some wayshad not been lifted.
And I walked outside andit was very somber tone.

(01:00:38):
People were not outthere celebrating and
congratulating people.
And you said to me just that,yeah, this is the result.
The result is good, butthe harm done in the
process is very heavy.
And I'm curious if youwould want to expand on
that or what did you feelin those moments after the
decision was made and, yeah.

rachel olzer. (01:01:00):
Yeah.
I was.
Like so upset.
And it was really interesting'cause right when, we wrapped
and people were leaving, Paigeturned to me and said, I know
this is bad for the organizationand we will find a way through.
And that was, it was veryhelpful to hear, but it
also was so heavy and Ithink, a lot of it was just
like we were exhausted.
We just sat through fourhours of like discussion.

(01:01:21):
I think it was also likereally hard to know that it
was not a landslide victory.
Like the fact that aftereverything, it was still
four to four was like,are you kidding me?
And I think, the entire timethroughout this process.
In my opinion, one side wasalways extremely prepared,

(01:01:44):
willing to compromise,talk through, came ready
to defend their point.
And the other side justnever seemed as prepared.
And so I think there wasalso this thing for me where
I was like, we're holdingthese two sides as if they're
equal and they're not.
So that was also really hardto sit with because knowing
that yeah, you got somepeople to show up to this
one meeting, but on the wholeyou haven't been around.

(01:02:06):
Your arguments havebeen flimsy at best.
And in some ways I'm insultedthat we have to do this
all again and be held up asthough these are two sides,
two equal sides of a coin.
I think that's weird.
And I think there was a lotof just violence done and
harm done in the process.

(01:02:28):
It's easy to say oh, likea council member getting
called out of their nameand whatever is violent.
And that may be true, andit's also violent to allow
people to stand up thereand say the horrible things
that are being said aboutmembers of their community.
And so I think therewas a lot of that too.

(01:02:50):
And and I think for whatit's worth, these types of
efforts, we have to thinkof ourselves as athletes
in these arenas as well.
It's not just when we get ona bike, but advocacy requires
a certain level of endurancetoo, and I don't think that
everybody trains for that.

(01:03:10):
Because we want comfort andsafety and in the same ways
that we have to be willingto take risks when we're on
a mountain bike or, trainfor a long gravel ride.
We have to be willing to takerisks when it comes to advocacy
and get uncomfortable andbuckle in for the long haul.
And I will say I am really proudof the fact that we did that.

(01:03:32):
This has been themajority of the year.
We have spent months on this,and that is really impressive.
And it's exhausting.
And so I think therewas a lot of that too.
But I don't know.
Personal, for me personally,it was just really heavy to be
like, Ooh, like I don't feelgood about how that all ended
or how that all went down.
And I've had to sit withthe last couple days of

(01:03:52):
just reevaluating like thecalls I made throughout
and just questioningwas that the right call?
And sometimes what I thinkis best personally maybe
isn't what's best for theorganization and did I do
the organization right?
And just all these thingsI have to sit with of
be, learn and be betterprepared for a future fight.

mike. (01:04:15):
And I'm sure that this reflection and
learning will continue of

rachel olzer. (01:04:19):
Yeah.

mike. (01:04:20):
Time to come and so I do.
I don't know if there's good inthis, but maybe it's given us
the opportunity to have theseconversations in a way that we
have not been able to before.
And to try to be honest withourselves as a community about
the mirror that we should holdup as we evaluate who we are
and who we want to become.

rachel olzer. (01:04:37):
Yeah, and really my goal is I think this was
a masterclass and what racismlooks like in practice and what,
in the ways that this stuffshows up to me, this is exactly
what it looks like becauseit's never gonna be as in your
face as you want it to be.
Like we, we got lucky thatpeople were willing to say
out loud the things they were,'cause it rarely happens.

(01:05:00):
If we had been met with peoplewho were more politically
savvy, this would've beeneven harder to see through.
And in that way, I thinkhopefully people really
take away like a, justso many lessons of this
is what this looks like.
Like burying people underred tape, burying them,
burying their ideologyand hatred and masking

(01:05:23):
it in these various ways.
This is what it looks like.
Yeah.

mike. (01:05:28):
Yeah.
And like at this point, ifyou want another half an hour
conversation, we can talkabout religious context that
were brought to all of us.

rachel olzer. (01:05:35):
Yeah.

mike. (01:05:35):
I'll go there.
Although we should, 'causethat's all different.
One of the things that I'malways asking people is their
fears for our community and so Ithink given this experience and
given where we have landed forthe moment, I'm curious, what
are your fears for this place?

rachel olzer. (01:05:51):
Hmm.
I mean, kind of In theimmediate sense, my fears
are just that people areemboldened by their hatred and
what's happening nationallyto act out those, desires.
I think like on a largerscale and just like in a
bigger sense, like my fear isalways that of like apathy.

(01:06:13):
My fear is always that okay,we did this and now we're good.
Like I think we saw a lot ofthat af in the years following
the uprising in 2020 of weha we did all this work.
And then it wasokay, we're good.
Like we, or like afterObama was elected and it
was like, okay, we're good.
I think, it's important to restfor the long haul of course,

(01:06:34):
but I, I'm always afraid that.
A victory for some means,an opportunity to check out.
And in reality it'sokay, you've seen like
the underbelly, the uglyunderbelly has been exposed,
like now the work begins.
And so I, yeah, it's like myhope in that is that we learn

(01:06:55):
to rest rather than quitting.

mike. (01:06:59):
The hope would be that these conversations
work towards this idea ofwholeness in our community.
And it's hard to look at thiswhole situation and maybe
sometimes understand howit moves us towards that.
If it does at all.
There's gonna be scars andthere's gonna be damage that
have happened, but I wanna.

(01:07:19):
I would hope that wecan, as a community
move towards that idea.
And I would be curious, whenI say that idea of wholeness,
when you look at this,what does wholeness look
like to you in this space?

rachel olzer. (01:07:33):
I don't know.
That's a good question.
I don't know if I'm alwaysas good at, and this is
something I'm working on,of seeing like the paradise.
What is the paradise?
I'm like so in it thatI'm always like, what
is the next place thatwe can build the bridge?
But I don't always getto zoom out and see like
the whole landscape.

(01:07:53):
I think, I guess I don't knowwhat wholeness means
for our community.
What I believe to be trueis that I think this was
historical for our community.
I think that this will bewritten about, and my hope
is that in being the victors,we get to write the story,

(01:08:18):
and I hope that we do itjustice to the complexity
of the problem and reallywrite a story that is whole.
Maybe that is the wholenessI hope for right now.
' cause I don't knowwhat wholeness for our
community looks like.
And I thinkI spend a lot of time

(01:08:39):
imagining what folks on theother side must believe.
Having to sit with those folksand hear it from their mouths
shakes me out of a naivety thatI have to find my way back from.
And I think that is where I'mat right now of what does it

(01:09:00):
mean for these folks to notjust believe this stuff in
theory or not just vote thatfor these kinds of ideologies.
To be willing to get upand say them in front of
a room full of people.
That's hard.

mike. (01:09:16):
Well, rachel, I'm incredibly thankful that
you would be willing tosit and to process this uh,
together with me, thankfulfor your leadership and your
guidance and your wisdom.
And I know that it doesn'tcome without a cost.
I would hope I could be one ofthe first people at the line
to just say that I do believein the work that you're doing
and the work that all Bikeswelcome is doing and that

(01:09:36):
to create these spaces andto help create a place where
everyone feels like they arewelcome and that they can
belong is needed and necessary.
And so thank you that you'rea part of this community.
Thank you for being here.
And just thanks for sharingall of this with us.
I think we've got alot to think through.
So thank you for, thank you forbeing willing to share that.

rachel olzer. (01:09:55):
Yeah.
Thanks for having me.

mike. (01:10:00):
Well, an incredible thank you to Dr. Olzer.
This conversation bringsinto focus what was really
at stake in the debate overthe all bikes welcome mural.
On the surface, it may havelooked like a disagreement
about paint colors under abridge, but at its core it was
about belonging identity andwhether our community would make
space for those that are toooften pushed into the margins.
Over nearly six months, whatshould have been a local

(01:10:22):
decision about public art?
Became a stage for nationalideological politics,
inclusion itself was framedas divisive, and religious
nationalism and culturalWar rhetoric were carried
into our city government.
It overshadowed the realstories of neighbors who
simply wanted a mural to saythat "You're welcome here."
The council member who said itwas one of the most important
votes in the last decade.

(01:10:44):
In many ways they were right.
The outcome revealed whothe roots of power, how that
power is used, and how fragilethe promise of welcome can
feel when it is politicized.
For some, the decisionto keep the mural may
have felt like a victory.
But as Rachel reminded us,it has also left deep wounds.
Harm was done in the process,harm in the spoken words,
in the silence of those whomight have stood alongside,

(01:11:06):
and how certain voices weresingle out while others were
left unexamined, and thecost was not only born by the
organization and its advocates.
Our entire community wasaffected because of how
this debate unfolded.
Did it deepen divisions?
Did it erode trust?
These are things we don't fullyunderstand at this moment, but
things that we will be carryingwith us for years to come.

(01:11:26):
I agree with Rachel, thiswas a masterclass in how our
structures reveal the powerdynamics within themselves,
not just in national headlines,but in the everyday politics
of a city council chamber, andyet there is hope here also.
Because through this struggle,we have been invited into a
deeper conversation about whowe are becoming As a community.
We cannot simply ignorewhat has been revealed.

(01:11:48):
The discomfort that tookplace within our differences.
The resistance to inclusion,but also the courage of
those willing to stand up andsay, all bikes are welcome,
all people are welcome.
This episode is not the end ofthe story, next week we're gonna
turn to the artist herself,Paige Dirksen, who carried
the vision of this mural fromSketch to Wall, and who found
her art place in the middle ofa civic battle that she did not

(01:12:10):
ask for but could not ignore.

paige dirksen. (01:12:13):
There should never be a debate about
who has the right to exist,and that's what happened.
And a lot of harm wasdone in that process.
At the same time, I thinkthat there are conversations
within this situationthat really needed to
happen in our community.
Things that have been bubbling,especially when it comes to

(01:12:34):
the cycling community andwho gets a seat at the table.
This conversation reallymorphed into who belongs and
is Bentonville welcoming?
It doesn't mean we don't loveour community or we don't
love living here, just meanswe have areas to improve.
.

mike. (01:12:53):
Paige's voice adds of beauty and risk and
belonging in Bentonville.
I wanna say thank you forlistening, and I wanna say
thank you for being themost important part of what
our community is becoming.
This is the underview,an exploration in the
shaping of our place.