the rural recreational roads with the Ozark Foundation (ep 2b, 42)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
michael spivey. (00:02):
But I can tell you dozens of times
where I've had amazingexperiences and conversations
with motorists or folks incafes or convenience stores.
And that gives me hopethat this problem is,
may not be a problem, mayjust be a fact of growth.
But regardless, itneeds attention and it.
I believe that organizationslike Ozark Foundation who

(00:24):
are embedded in the outdoorrecreation ecosystem do
have a responsibility.
I think it startswith listening.
I think it starts with humility.
I understand that when changearises and when folks feel
that maybe their way of lifemay be impacted, it makes for
an uncomfortable situation.
So again, I think it's, itbegins with just, lowering

(00:46):
the volume and everybody'ssitting down and having
this conversation andfinding common ground.

mike rusch. (01:34):
Well, you're listening to the underview,
an Exploration and theShaping of Our Place.
My name is Mike Rusch.
Lately, the cycling communityhas found itself at the center
of some of the divisionsin northwest Arkansas.
From the All Bikes welcome muraldebate to the conversations
hosted by the Ozark podcast.
We've seen how something assimple as a bike, a mural,
or a message of inclusioncan become a flashpoint for

(01:55):
deeper cultural conversationsabout who belongs and who
benefits, and who gets left out.
And yet even withinthose tensions, something
meaningful is trying to takeshape across our region.
The cycling community isbeginning to ask harder
questions about access andrepresentation, and whether
this movement can live up tothe promise of connection.
If we slow downenough to notice.

(02:15):
I think there are somereally beautiful things that
are beginning to emerge.
Within the work of the OzarkFoundation, a theme of bridge
building is taking root, notjust between cyclists and
cities, but between urbanand rural Arkansas, between
longtime residents and newcomersbetween those who feel seen and
those who've been overlooked.
And when we talk aboutinclusion, we mean it in a very

(02:36):
broad sense, not only for thosewho have been historically
marginalized, but also forrural communities who now find
their sense of belonging, welltested by the pace of change
and the pressures of growth.
Their stories of identity andlivelihood are also a part of
what's at stake here in a timewhen our community and our state
and our nation need it the most.

(02:56):
There's a growing sense thatthese efforts might point
us towards another way.
So today I'm joined by theleadership of the Ozark
Foundation, president and CEO,Michael Spivey, senior Director
of Operations, Brannon Pack,and the new project lead for
the Arkansas Rural RecreationalRoads Initiative, the R3
Initiative, Bobby Finster.
This conversation carries tothe thread from my last episode
with Andy Chastain exploring howcycling can be a bridge between

(03:20):
urban and rural Arkansas, andhow initiatives like R3 can
strengthen relationships whilehelping to empower small towns,
rural livelihoods, and thelandscapes that divine this
place, these roads connectfarmers and families and riders
and residents, newcomers andold timers, and they remind
us of the stories of thisplace, well, they're shared.
They're not separate.

(03:42):
The Arkansas Rural RecreationalRoads program now under the
Ozark Foundation, is more thanan infrastructure project.
It's an opportunity to connectpeople to use recreation as a
catalyst for relationship, forpreservation, and for hopefully
shared economic growth.
It also carries responsibilityto ensure that these roads
don't just bring ridersthrough communities, but

(04:03):
that they help sustainthe people who live there.
In a time where divisionis running deep, I think R3
invites us to all to slowdown, to see one another,
to listen and to find thecommon ground on gravel roads
that crisscrossed the state.
From Benton County tothe delta, these are the
roads that remind us whatconnection looks like when
we choose to travel together.

(04:24):
Alright, we've got a wholelot to work through today.
Let's get into it.
I have the privilege todayof sharing a table with the
Ozark Foundation which isreally a privilege to me to
talk about the Arkansas RuralRecreational Roads initiative.
And so with me, Michael Spivey,who's the president and CEO
of the Ozark foundation.

(04:45):
Michael, welcome tothis conversation.

Thank you.
It's great to be herewith you again, Mike.

Oh, I'm so excited.
Welcome back.
Back by Popular Demand.
Of course.

The last time we spoke on your program,
we were in Horseshoe CanyonRanch on the third day
of the Arkansas Graveler.
I think it was about 105 degree.

Yeah.
You didn't kill me.

He, and we were sitting on a porch there
looking at the beautiful ranch,so it's good to be back again.

Yeah, it, and since then we've had another Arkansas
Graveler, which I wanna talkabout because I love that event.
And we're gonna look forward towhat's coming up in the future.
If you're, if you'll share.
I also have the opportunity tosit with Brannon Pack, who's the
senior Director of Operationsfor the Ozark Foundation.
Brannon, welcome tothis conversation.
It's great to have you here.
I've been able to rideand chase you around these

(05:28):
Ozark mountains for a while.
I can't keep up with you,but thanks for being here.
Welcome to the conversation,

brannon pack. (05:33):
Mike.
Glad to be here.

And then we also have a new face
to Northwest Arkansas.
We're trying to make him anOzarker, I guess if you will,
Bobby Finster, who's going tobe the project lead for the
Arkansas Rural RecreationalRoads Initiative here.
So Bobby, welcome.
We've had the chanceto ride together again.
I can't keep up with Bobbyeither, but it's been a
joy to, to get to know youand to chase chasey around
these hills as well too.
So welcome.

bobby fin (05:55):
Yeah, thanks so much.
Thanks for having us.

Alright, let's jump into it.
We've got a wholelot to talk about.
I think one of the thingsthat I've been talking about
lately in a theme of a lot ofthese conversations is really
around the cycling communityand what that looks like
to be, I would hope, bridgebuilders in our community.
We've had some conversationsabout outdoor recreation and
what does it look like tomove outdoor recreation into
something deeper, somethingthat really what I would

(06:19):
call relationship that canallow us to really know this
place, to love this place,to fall in love with it.
So we move into this place ofrelationship where we can yeah.
We can invest more inthis place to help with
preservation and conservation.
And to just really honestlyenjoy the beauty of this place
that we live in, in a way thathopefully continues to live on.
And I'm anxious tohave this conversation.

(06:40):
I think the move of theArkansas Rural Recreational
Roads program, or we'regonna call it the R3 program
for this conversation, tothe Ozark Foundation is
just really great news.
I know that Andy Tinetalked about this in our
last conversation, butMike, let's start with you.
I'd love to understand a littlebit about how this evolved,
how this came together, 'causeyou're solidly in the recreation
space with a lot of the eventsthat you're doing, community

(07:02):
events, the Arkansas graveler.
How has this program fitinto the Ozark Foundation?
How is this moving ustowards a deeper place from
a relationship standpoint?

It didn't happen quickly.
It began with a conversationwith Runway Group and
Andy and his team thatinitiated the program back
in 2023, I believe it was.
And they asked us our ideas onhow the program might evolve
and how we might manage it.
And we did a, deep reviewof our own resources
and a mission review.

(07:33):
We have a dual mission.
One part of the mission is toposition Arkansas as a premier
outdoor recreation destination.
And the second partof our mission is to
lower barriers to entry.
And then we have three pillarsthat support that mission.
One is compete, which isour competitive events.
Secondly is to connect,which is largely accomplished

(07:56):
through programs likethe Arkansas Graveler
and our kids programming.
And then the thirdis conservation.
And frankly, I don't believewe've fully accomplished
as much in that pillaras I would've hoped for.
We typically have approachedthat conservation one
in terms of recycling atour events and hopefully
creating a zero waste event.

(08:17):
And when the opportunityfor the R3 came up.
It seemed to fit thatconservation pillar, which
was very appealing to us.
The three of us are allfrom here, grew up here.
I was raised on a farm inEastern part of Benton County.
And so when it, the opportunitycame along and we began
thinking about it in termsof whether it was within our

(08:40):
mission, it was very attractive.
And it was a year conversationand we approached many different
stakeholders and spoke to countyleaders and state leaders and
others to see what we mightbe able to do with it beyond
the great foundation thatAndy and his team created.

Maybe share from your perspective a little bit
about what that looks like.
What should we expect forR3 now that it sits within
the Ozark Foundation?
How do you see that missionevolving or changing?
Or do you feel like, hey,we just need to stay in
the same lane and do moreof what we've been doing?

The good news is the program, in my opinion at
least, has a strong foundation.
It's an amazing vision.
Tom Walton had thisvision, and Andy and his
team really got it going.
I don't think there's gonnabe any dramatic changes.
But I think of itas a relay race.
And they've passed the batonto us and we'll run it down
the road and at some pointprobably pass it on to someone

(09:32):
else when that time is right.
I'd like to see the programin the next, year or so
expanded into communities thatwant this kind of program.
We're very intentional about.
We're not throwingourselves into communities.
We're waiting forcommunities to contact us.
And many communitieshave already done that.
So we want to be pulledinto a community.

(09:53):
We're not some sort ofevading army of cyclists.
We want communities that seevalue in this, whether it's
through economic activitiesor through conservation.
And that takes a lotof time and discussion.
And I think Bobby and Brannonprimarily are going to be having
town meetings to, to ensurethat this is something that is

(10:13):
meaningful to community thatis desired from the community.
And if it's not,that's okay too.

Mike, I love hearing that.
I would, I would wanna pressinto that a little bit more,
just because I think from myperspective, when R3 started, it
was about bridge building and,cards on the table, we're in a
different, feels like climateof relationships with each
other where frankly, people, arerunning pretty hot these days.
And I see that sometimes outon those gravel roads and it
feels like, yeah that, thatfor some reason the tension

(10:41):
levels are, are growing in ourcommunity and the cycling space.
I, I'd love your perspectiveon how do you view that?
What, to me, I think started asa way of trying to bridge some
gaps on conflict to maybe a timewhere we're at today, where that
conflict seems to be growing.
How does R3, fromyour perspective and
the Ozark Foundation,what's your role there?

(11:02):
Do you have a role?

I think we have a role, and I'm not
sure what the magnitude ofthe tension is, frankly.

Yeah, that's fair.

Is it.
Is it a small conflict?
Is it a conflict amongst aminority who have megaphones?
I don't know.
Or is it something more serious,regardless of what that may be?
I believe we have a role andwe should take it seriously.
I believe that so muchof, let's call it conflict
in this community, and Idon't think it's that much.

(11:29):
Personally, I think it hasto do more with growth, the
hypergrowth of northwestArkansas than it is a
cycling, non cyclist call itcyclist, motorist conflict.
And we have, wesee it every day.
I live in downtown Bentonville.
There's street closures,there's infrastructure
being built all over.
We live and are surroundedby the three fastest growing

(11:52):
communities in Arkansasbeing Centeron, Pea Ridge
and Tontitown, and ofcourse Bentonville is, has
its own growth going on.
So I see a lot of this tensiona function of that more than it
is specifically about cyclists.
But let's face it, we all drivecars and sometimes cyclists
can be annoyance, whetherit's through not yielding, not

(12:14):
being considerate of cyclists.
But I could also say thatsometimes I've had some
issues with motorists.
I've been riding a bikein northwest Arkansas
for over 25 years.
And maybe three times comesto mind of the times I've
had conflict with a motorist.
But I can tell you dozens oftimes where I've had amazing
experiences and conversationswith motorists or folks in

(12:36):
cafes or convenience stores.
And that gives me hopethat this problem is,
may not be a problem, mayjust be a fact of growth.
And facts have to be managed.
Problems can be solved,facts have to be managed.
And I think that's where we are.
But regardless, itneeds attention and it.
I believe that organizationslike Ozark Foundation who

(12:59):
are embedded in the outdoorrecreation ecosystem do
have a responsibility.
I think it startswith listening.
I think it starts with humility.
I grew up on a farm inEastern Benton County,
as I said earlier.
And I understand, I understandthat when change arises and when
folks feel that maybe their wayof life may be impacted it makes

(13:19):
for an uncomfortable situation.
So again, I think it's, itbegins with just, lowering
the volume and everybody'ssitting down and having
this conversation andfinding common ground.
And Andy Chasteen mentionedthat I think he said it
really well about, we haveso much more in common than
we don't, and why don't westart with the commonality
and then identify those areaswhere we may have a difference

(13:41):
of opinion and that's okay.
And address that and findmaybe solutions to that.

Mike, I appreciate that long view of
your cycling and the Ozarks.
I where you really thefocus from what I hear
from you has been aboutthe positive interactions.
It seems like lately, and Idon't know, maybe it's everybody
in our national dialogue whereeveryone is just on edge.
Do you have a feeling formaybe why this has been the
topic of conversation or whywe've had these kind of public

(14:07):
conversations about conflict orwhere people are coming from?
How do you view that in thelong view of our relationships
and just where we arein this cultural moment?

I think it's a few things.
One, it goes back tothis hypergrowth that
we're experiencing andwe all feel that, and it
creates tension by itself.
But I think we also have toidentify that the explosion of
cycling in northwest Arkansas.
When I first started cyclinghere I would go on a it was the
Tuesday night ride from Walmart.

(14:36):
In the early two thousands andmaybe we'd have 10 cyclists,
some would show up on roadbikes, some would show up on
mountain bikes, some wouldshow up on time trail bikes,
and it was a no drop ride andit impacted very few people.
I go to South Africa in2010, come back in 2017.
I get invited to theTuesday night ride again,

(14:57):
and there's 150 cyclists.
I get dropped in about thefirst two or 3 miles and
haven't been back since.
But 150 cyclists on, whetherit's a unpaved road or
Highway 72 is an impactand it's a dramatic impact.
And we would all, I think, agreethat's something that is so

(15:19):
dramatic that would create someof the tensions and frustrations
that folks experience.

I, I agree.
I think we're seeing a lot ofgrowth and a lot of change.
And maybe, and I'm biased,I think the R3 initiative is
a bridge building and space.
So I wanna dig into this evenmore because I think with
the change and the move tothe Ozark Foundation, there
are some real opportunities.
So Brannon, I know you covera lot of things from the
Graveler, the Enduro series, theDownhill series state, you're

(15:46):
doing a whole lot of things.
But the R3 initiative nowis coming with you and
Bobby to take the lead andto start to dig into this.
And I'd love your perspectiveon what do you see as your
perspective of this initiative?
What are some of the first stepsand what should we start to
expect from the R3 initiative?

Going back to what, reiterating what Mike
said, the work that's alreadybeen done with this as a pilot
just here in Benton County,when you look at the work of
Andy and the team at Runway havealready done, and what they've
been able to show is that thepotential that this program
could have and the opportunityfor an organization like
the Ozark Foundation to takethe reins of it and grow it.

(16:23):
And that to me is the biggestopportunity to where I think
what we were seeing with thepilot, and I know because we
were getting some of thesecalls, I've been in different
roles in this community.
I would call myself a cyclingadvocate for, I don't know,
going on better part of15 years professionally.
I've been in trail development.
I wore a tourism hatfor several years.

(16:44):
With experience Fayetteville,Mike was able to recruit
me away around 2023 to helphim transition what had
been a philanthropic grantmaking organization with the
Ozark Foundation to todaywe are a nonprofit event
production house, and ashe mentioned, one of our
pillars being conservation.
The opportunity with R3for me is the opportunity
for our foundation.

(17:06):
To conserve the recreationalvalue of the gravel
roads here in Arkansas.
And by gravel roads, there's70,000 miles of gravel
roads ready to be explored.
And not just by bike, by,by these own communities
that potentially couldserve as jumping off points
as these hubs that areestablished as part of R3.
When you look at the pilot andwhat they were able to establish

(17:27):
in Benton County, I think forus what was missing was someone
to help them expand that.
And, the toolkit is there.
We know that other people aregrabbing onto that toolkit.
I think Andy mentioned that.
We're seeing other statesgrab the toolkit and do things
with it, but we know herein at least the communities
that we've discussed with,they've got their hand up.

(17:48):
As Mike said there's fromHuntsville, Arkansas to
Fairfield Bay, to your friend inArkansas City and Robert Moore.
There's communities thathave heard about the direct
impact cycling could have in apositive way here in Arkansas.
And they've heard about itand they've seen it happen in
northwest Arkansas and they'veseen that happen now in central
Arkansas, but they've neverbeen given the opportunity

(18:08):
to feel that direct impact.
And I see a program like R3as maybe the first time that
an organization like the OzarkFoundation can go into these
smaller rural communities andshow them the impact cycling can
have, not just from a cyclingtourist, because there is,
there is definitely a economicimpact that can happen with the
establishment of one of thesehubs as potentially bringing

(18:30):
guests to your communitythat had never experienced
your community before.
Cycling touristswere not complicated.
Number one thing we're doingis we're looking for a new
experience on our bike andwith the opportunity to grow
the R3 initiative statewide,we're gonna be creating,
Bobby Finster, is gonna becreating new experiences
for folks to have in everycorner of this state.

(18:50):
After the ride, we'resimply, we wanna be local.
In this order, we want toeat local, we want to drink
local beer, and then wewanna drink local coffee.
We're ready to come to thesesmaller, rural communities in
the right way and spend a littlemoney and have a new experience.
And these same networksthat are established by R3
can then also be enjoyed bythe community themselves.

(19:12):
And so for me, the opportunityto expand this, putting
somebody in a role whose jobnow with Bobby Finster is to
lead the expansion of thisfor the Ozark Foundation.
I think to me, that wasthe missing component to
take what has been a verysuccessful pilot project.
But then if we want tomatch the energy of these
communities, that, as Mikementioned, they've got their
hands up, they're asking forit, they're ready for this.

(19:34):
They're begging for someoneto come work with them to
understand what cycling canmean for their community.
But until we put a person ina driver's seat like Bobby,
to go and match that energythat these communities have.
I feel like that was whatwas potentially missing
with expansion of this R3program, but we have that now.
And just to go back to whatAndy said when he did give
us credit for hiring BobbyFinster, and he said he

(19:55):
didn't know who was behindthat, but it was good hire.
I'm gonna takecredit for that one.

All right we'll we will give you credit then
if that's, real quick beforewe get, I feel like we need to
have a drum roll now for Bobbyor something, but maybe before
we talk to Bobby here, realquick, I talk to me a little
bit about this aspect, mikementioned this, which I think
is really important, that,here in Benton County or where
these pilot programs happen,this just emerged, right?
And maybe there's behind thescenes conversations about
what does that look like?
How do you solve problems?

(20:21):
What are your objectives goingto be as this, is a program that
is now available for the state?
That divide between, hey,we're bringing this to a
place to, to implement,or we're being invited to
implement this, where this isa tool for these communities.
I'd love your perspective onmaybe how local communities
should think about this programas maybe an economic development

(20:44):
tool if they want it.
Or is this gonna be somethingyou're forcing down their
throat for lack of better words?

No.
Great.
Great question.
And we're not forcingthis on any community.
I think the communities thatinitially we're looking to
work with, you talk aboutwhat are our first steps.
The first step isto listen and learn.
We are committed to expandingthe R3 program to three
to four counties a year.
Over the next three years.
So three years from now, wemay be talking about R3 hubs

(21:10):
in every corner of the state.
That's something that I lookforward to, but we're gonna do
that in the right way, and we'regonna work with communities
that are ready for us.
As Michael mentioned, if they'renot ready for this, that's okay.
It's like we're not coming.
We're not, this isn't an army offolks coming to your community.
This is a nonprofit that worksin the outdoor, recreational
space that has people inplace that are ready to

(21:33):
work with your communitywhen you raise your hand.
So if you raise your hand andyou've got a plethora of gravel
roads, as many rural Arkansascommunities do, give us a
shout because we'd be happyto come sit down and talk with
you and explore what positiveimpacts establishing an R3 hub
in your community could have.

And I think one of the things that came
up a little bit was, from anorthwest Arkansas we're dealing
with so much growth, right?
When you offer this into othercommunities, we have to take
that northwest Arkansas cap offa little bit and say, what are
those communities asking for?
Because you guys have been doingevents all over the state, so
you're seeing a pretty broadrange of economic situations,

(22:14):
maybe ways that people arelooking for economic impact.
So what are you seeing in thesecommunities that are asking
for, Hey, we're raising ourhand and saying, I think this R3
program could be helpful to us?

Yeah, and I don't, I don't think it's a
secret there that there iscommunities in Arkansas that
have been on a steady populationdecline for the last century,
and there's also declinesin other spaces and places,
and the way people recreateto some degree is changing.
And I, this may not bepopular, I think that the

(22:46):
data is also out there thatsupports a decline in hunting
and fishing, and at least thelicense sold and the future way
that some folks are going tothat either Arkansans
themselves, are coming toArkansas to recreate.
They may not be showing up witha gun or a bow in their hand.
It may be with a bicycle.

(23:08):
And these rural communities inArkansas that are declining in
population, maybe the bicycleand this new form of recreation
around gravel cycling couldstart to turn that tide and we
can start to drive folks backto these communities, these
amazing communities spreadacross Arkansas, that we can

(23:28):
start to encourage peopleto consider revisiting these
communities that haven't seenoften, don't see guests anymore.
And it could be somethingas simple as a bicycle that
helps make that happen.

I love that.
And I've seen our mutual friendRobert Moore down in Arkansas
City is begging bicycles tocome be a part of what can
hopefully provide some sort ofinput to the, to those counties.
And so I've seen that Idon't know, sometimes we see
that in a larger view, so Ireally appreciate that, Mike.

Yeah.
I just wanted to add onsomething that Brannon mentioned
is when it comes to outdoorrecreation, whether it's
hunting, fishing, cycling,it's not an either or it is
something that we all share.
I'm a hunter, I'm a fisher.
I do hike, I hike.
I spend a lot of time on wareagle Creek east of here.
Spend a lot of timeon the Elk River.

(24:17):
In fact, I probablydo more hiking than I
do biking these days.
So it's not this eitheror it's something how
do we share this space?
How do we make sure that we'reall safe, we all wanna be safe.
We all wanna make sure thatwhether it's an unpaved
road is safe for themotorist and the cyclist.
And that we're not in, ina situation where we're

(24:38):
saying, you can't pursue yourhappiness that or be because
it may impinge on mine.
And we wanna avoid that.
We wanna make sure that thatwe're welcoming and inclusive
and that the communitiesthat we're speaking to
want to have a programlike the R3 in their area.

No I appreciate that.
And I think it'simportant to, to do that.
It, I'm a fisherman as well.
I used to hunt.
I wasn't very goodat it, if I'm honest.
But yeah, I think it's that itis not one way and we've got
the opportunity to really enjoythe state for what it has to
offer, which is a whole lot.
And the beauty of the peoplein rural communities is
something that I've justgrown to love over time.
Alright, we're gonna do a littlebit of a drum roll here to get

(25:16):
this introduction to Bobby.
You've been waiting for so long.
I know you've got a whole lotto add to this conversation.
For those of you that may notremember, the conversation
that I had with Mike and theOzark Foundation last year was
part of the Arkansas Graveler,where we rode from Fayetteville
all the way to Jonesboro.
We went through Cave City andBobby, we got to talk a little
bit in that episode about comingto your hometown in Cave City.

(25:37):
And it's great to have youback on this conversation, but
you're now in a role that hasa really huge opportunity to
be a part of kind of bridgebuilding and relationship
making in the state.
But maybe before we get intothat, Bobby, share a little bit
of your story and who you areand where you're from and why
you're maybe looking forwardto what's ahead for the R3.

bobby finster. (25:54):
Yeah, so I am from Cave City, as
Mike mentioned, and thatis the home of the world's
sweetest watermelons,and that is something
that I am very proud of.
And Mike, I think you've hadyour fair share of watermelon.

I have.
And I am, I, my wife tells methat we have to go to Cave City
to get some watermelons, andso I'm lacking in that, but I
would affirm the title of CaveCity as the best watermelon
place in the whole world.
How's that?
Is that fair?

bobby finst (26:20):
Yeah, That's great.
And like you mentioned,when the Graveler air came
through town, our communityreally took hold of that.
And to this day, I'mstill constantly reminded
about how positive thatwas for the community.
And I just look forward togoing through town from time
to time and seeing bikes,people on bikes now, so

(26:41):
through the Arkansas Gravelerand directly seeing that
impact it's an honor to be apart of this group of guys.
But in the past better partof a decade, I have focused a
lot of my energy into digginginto that community and the
surrounding communities.
Batesville and Evening Shade,Sydney, all the small, little,

(27:04):
less than a thousand inpopulation, a lot of cases.
And I dig in and I findpeople like the Robert
Moores that have a deeplove for their communities.
And the more I get to knowthese people, the more they
try to rope me into coming andhelping them produce some form
of outdoor recreation event orany of these things like that.

(27:26):
I've spent the better partof the last decade assisting
these communities in doingso, and in turn we've raised
money for local non nonprofitsthat has been a huge benefit
for their communities.
And so mapping routes anddoing that kind of work is
something that goes right handin hand with this program.

(27:47):
And it's fun to have thisplatform to stand on to
position Arkansas to be,a premier destination
location in the country.

Well, And you've been working on this
within Cave City on yourown, I think for many years.
And I think you've evenhad the opportunity to be
recognized in some of that work.
You were given the 2025 HenryAward for the Arkansas's
individual innovator in tourism.
And you were using the bicyclewithin rural communities to
try to make a difference.

(28:17):
So tell me a little bit moreabout some of that work,
because my assumption wouldbe that's gonna be a precursor
of how you're going to maybeapproach some of the counties
that may be raising their handsaying, Hey, we're interested
in what R3 looks like.
So share a little of thatbackground about how you've been
digging in and using the biketo, to make a difference there.

Through my love of gravel cycling, I've
obviously will, go throughthese communities and have
these experiences that areunlike anything I get to
experience while I'm in theselarger, larger environments,
larger cities, so to speak.
And I find people that are inlove and they wanna showcase

(28:54):
these, it's the littleghost town in Calico Rock.
It's the little diner inMountain View, Arkansas.
It's the, whatever thething is that the community
wants to showcase.
I've put together, a collectionof these things and I try to
connect them through gravelroads so that I can showcase
these things to my friends,for these communities to

(29:15):
help build these communitiesand to strengthen them.
And through that work,apparently I was nominated
for the Henry Awardfor the 2025 Governor's
Convention on Tourism.
And I graciously accepted that,it was a pinch me moment 'cause
I've, there's a lot of goodwork going on in this state.

(29:36):
So, To be recognized for that,it was a, it was a real honor.

I, I'm curious, you're sitting in a room with
a bunch of guys from NorthwestArkansas, but this is not
where you're from per se.
Like how does that perspectivecoming from a place like
Cave City, how do you feellike that helps you maybe
understand what thosecommunities that maybe raising
their hand are asking for?

Well, We sit around and we talk about some
kind of tension and stufflike this, and it's a little
different where I come from.
And so to hear all thoseconversation, it's something
that I really strive tounderstand and I respect
the level of attention thatneeds to go toward this,
but it's not necessarilysomething I'm familiar with.

(30:15):
As in these small communitiesthat I'm used to, the
farmers will directly reachout to me and say, Hey
bring your friends out.
We love seeing all the cyclistsride through the farmlands.
And just so happened, wehave a watermelon grower in
town that wanted me to puton a bike ride that showcased
their watermelon farm.
So I sent cyclists throughthe watermelon crops and fed

(30:37):
'em fresh sliced watermelons.
And so the big city vibe ofnorthwest Arkansas if you will,
is something I can adapt to.
And it will takesome getting used to.
But just like any community, youfind some real awesome people in
these communities and there's nobetter place to be in the state

(30:58):
on a bike as northwest Arkansas.

And Bobby, I the watermelon aspect, you've got
a watermelon hat and you'vegot the melon grind, the
world's sweetest gravel ride.
I love it.
So like you do, you embody thecommunity and the pride that
comes out of rural communitiesand can showcase really what
cycling can do to maybe bea help if that's needed.
Now I'm curious maybe, Idon't know Brannon, if this
would be your area, but thisis a really different dynamic

(31:22):
than I think we think abouthere in Northwest Arkansas.
And I'd love to hear yourthoughts on how does that
play into, as you thinkabout R3, really the mission
and the work that's ahead.

Yeah.
Let's just take what Bobby saidby example, and I think what
he just described and based onthe conversation we've already
had about, you mentioned thereis some tensions in Northwest
Arkansas and a lot of it's justaround this unprecedented growth
that we're all experiencing.
If you call northwest Arkansashome, I think what Bobby just
pointed out is the places we'respecifically looking to work in

(31:55):
this state with this R3 program,it's a different conversation.
We're going into smallercommunities that aren't
experiencing thisunprecedented growth.
It's the opposite.
They're having people leave andPE families move out and that's,
there's such an opportunity,the barriers that we've.
Are creating here innorthwest Arkansas around

(32:16):
some of these conversations.
Those barriers don'texist in other smaller
communities in this state.
And I'm excited that Bobby,under his guidance and just
coming from where he comesin, cave City, Arkansas, he
understands that firsthandand he works with these
communities firsthand,these small, he brings that
experience to the table for us.
And yeah, so I, I just wantedto, when I think about the

(32:39):
future of R3 and the pilotthat's happened in this, the
density here in northwestArkansas and the barriers
that we've had in northwestArkansas, to Bobby's point.
I think the barriers are gonnabe a little different as we
look to expand this across thestate and work with communities
that have their hand upbecause they're asking us to
come for the right reasons.

Yeah, I'm curious and may be too early to
really comment on this yet.
I don't know, maybe we'llcome back to it next year,
but I'm really curious, whatdo we as northwest Arkansas
have to learn from this?
Are we maybe putting upblinders around this idea of
tension or what cycling andthe Ozarks looks like that
maybe we need to reevaluatehow we think about that?

I can give you an example of tension
from, another space andwe'll call it conflict.
I don't, we'll call itconflict, call it tension,
whatever you want.
When I look atconflicts on trails.
So mountain bike trails, yougot a lot of 'em and a lot of
them are multi-use where you,at any time you'll have trail
runners and mountain bikersand hikers and bird watchers
all using these same trails.
And there's been times inthe region before we had, the

(33:39):
number of trails that we hadwhere we did have a lot of
user conflicts between thedifferent types of user groups
that were using those trails.
And that to some degree, I don'thear as much about that anymore.
And because a lot of timesthe solution to conflict, and
we can take the Ozarks foran example, a lot of times
the solution to conflict formountain biking simply build

(34:01):
a little bit more trail.
We spread that impactout of the users.
And so when I look at R3 andthe opportunities we have
with R3 is while we may befeeling that kind of conflict
in Benton County on the roadsthat we have here, if we are.
But the reality is with withinthree years under Bobby's work,
we're gonna have establishedhubs across the state in

(34:22):
multiple counties and givinggravel cyclists the opportunity
to go ride new trail experiencesin every corner of Arkansas.
And when I think about now,we're starting to spread that
impact out and giving, showingfolks that are looking to
recreate on gravel, differentplaces to go to ride.
And I think thatwill go a long way.
Even just take the Ozarksand the million acres of

(34:44):
public land we have here andthe opportunity to showcase
what has some incrediblegravel riding in Arkansas
right here in the Ozarks.
As we establish more hubs andwe show people other places to
go ride, it's gonna spread outthe impact that I think maybe
we saw or have perceived ascene from this pilot project.

Maybe let's have a conversation about
what's ahead for R3 becauseI look at this as not only
from a cycling perspective.
This is a community relationshipinitiative, which I think
I've benefited from a lot ofpeople have benefited from.
So tell me like, let'sget into the weeds.
What is the program?
What are your goals?
What's gonna happenhere in this first year?

What I will say is the Ozark Foundation,
we're not looking todrastically changed this
program we're taking.
We're looking to build onthe foundation that was
laid here in Benton Countywith the pilot project and
expand it across the state.
And Mike, maybe we talk alittle bit about what you
know, what is the project.
And, at its core, it's theopportunity to establish

(35:46):
what we call a hub.
So think of a mountain biketrail head where you go in and
you create this public placefor people to gather, for people
to start and end and experiencefrom on their bike, on their
feet, however they chooseto recreate on gravel roads.
The great thing about thisproject, specifically when
we're considering working inrural communities in Arkansas,
is that infrastructure formost cases already exist.

(36:08):
When we talk about lookingto work with communities that
have buy-in or that have theirhand up, we're not talking
with money in their hand.
That's not whatwe're asking about.
We're talking about buy-inbecause these are the
champions in those communitiesthat see an opportunity
for this to have a positiveimpact for their community.
And so a hub is simply,it may be a public parking
place that already existsat a public park, right?

(36:31):
It could be your downtownsquare where you have
public parking available.
We want, that's literally,that's what it takes.
And a couple, put up acouple kiosk signs and
some public parking andwe have a hub from there.
It's establishing.
And some of the more meaningfulwork Bob's gonna do is
around then establishingthese gravel road networks.
And again, we talkedabout it, these.

(36:52):
Typically around a lot of ruralcommunities in Arkansas, there
is endless gravel roads leadingfrom these areas of population.
And so what this does, whatthis program does is it does
establish a public parkinghub that invites both your
community and guests toyour community to come.
Park their car in yourcommunity and go have this
recreational experience.
And the routes that they use areones that we create and Bob will

(37:16):
be creating where we vet theseroutes and we use public roads.
We're not gonna, unless we'reinvited to, unless you're
a farmer in Cave City andyou want us to ride through
your watermelon patch, we'renot gonna be doing that.
We're gonna be used publiclyaccessible resources to go out
and create networks of gravelroads that are for everybody
from the beginner in a communitythat just wants to go understand

(37:36):
a good route to ride their bikeon up into what we know to be a
distance that does favor peopleto call it travel for gravel.
We want there to be enough therein this call it network that's
established from these hubsfor people to, of all degrees
to come see the value in, comeinto this smaller community.
And then after the ride, theopportunity for them to then.

(37:59):
Hey, let's go have acup of coffee at this
local coffee shop.
Let's go have dinnerat this diner before we
get back on the road.
Let's go fill up our cars atthe gas station before we head
back to wherever we came from.
And so there's such anopportunity with this program
through the establishment ofthese hubs, through development
of gravel road route networks,using the right roads for

(38:20):
the right reasons that reallycould have a very positive
impact to these smaller ruralcommunities in Arkansas.
And that's the nutsand bolts of it.
It's not overly complicated.

Yeah I've had a chance to enjoy some of
those hubs out in Pea Ridge,for example, out in Gravette.
Maybe Bobby, where arethose hubs today and how
can people enjoy themand Yeah, what's ahead?
Do you, are there new hubscoming to new cities or new
counties and new routes?
Yeah.
What does that looklike practically today?

So with the existing hubs, we have
Bentonville, Goshen, Gravette,Pea Ridge and Siloam Springs.
Currently we're just evaluatingwhat is there and what we
plan on doing to potentiallyreactivate some of these hubs.
But realistically, our plan isnot to do as much in northwest

(39:09):
Arkansas as what we plan ondoing throughout the state.
Where we go first isstill up for grabs.
We're still taking, we'restill answering questions.
All the people that have theirhand up, we're still picking on
them and figuring out the nextdirection we're going to go.
But ideally there's noright answer to that.

And you've got some work, there's some R3
routes, maybe not a hub, butover in Jonesboro and Craighead
County, if I remember correctly.
So you, like you, there'salready people in the
state that are asking andstarting to implement this.

Sure.
And we, yeah, just evaluatingthose circumstances or those
situations and moving forwardto highlight them through
our social media assets orramping up social media to
bring awareness to this.
We plan on going full force withthat, and yeah, that's what the
future looks like in my mind.

I think one thing that would be helpful for
me, 'cause, and I know we'vebeen talking about this kind
of indirectly, but as thesecyclists are maybe coming to
new communities that they'venot been to before what
are the expectations thatboth the cyclists should be
carrying into that around?
And Mike, you mentioned thistoo, and I get frustrated
with cyclists myselfaround how they conduct
themselves out there too.

(40:20):
What are you, what are theexpectations that should be
set for those cyclists ormaybe what are some of the
expectations that those ruralcommunities should have of
cyclists when they come intothese communities to participate
in some of these R3 activities?

So, In my mind, with the expectations
involving the communities andcyclist relationships, these
things, there's a level ofrespect that we all should
have toward each other.
And in my mind, that canbe a friendly wave as Andy
would promote, or that couldbe stopping and enjoying

(40:52):
a coffee with the local,at the local coffee shop.
But, just.
Don't be a turd, atthe end of the day.
And have respect forthe local landowners.
And I think that thoserelationships will build
themselves the more youembed yourselves in these,
in these small towns.

Yeah.
And to add to what Bobbysaid, and to the degree
we're being mindful of this,it, we carry that in the
ethos of the developmentof the routes themselves.
And so one thing I'vetasked Bobby with is as
we develop these networksof routes to be sensitive
to what we're creating.
The last thing we wannado is put gravel cyclists
over out over their skiswe'll say to where they are

(41:30):
knocking on folks' doorsout there in rural Arkansas.
And so we have a kind of aphilosophy, we're taking two
gravel route development towhere if we hit a certain
mileage mark, call it 50 miles,we're gonna publish a route.
Only if there is publicaid available somewhere.
Mid ride, meaning there's a gasstation or a cafe or something.
We're being that mindful,the shorter route.

(41:52):
Sure.
We want, these areself-supported efforts
meant to by design.
These aren't big thousandperson events coming
to these hubs, right?
This is me and our friends,me and my buddies going
to experience somethingnew here in Arkansas.
And when we do, we'regonna make sure that the
level of route developmentsupports what we considered
self-supporting riding.
Where they can go out with acouple water bottles, a snack,

(42:12):
they can complete that ride.
And if they can't, we'remindful enough through our
route development that we'reidentifying those, call it
on route resources, the localcommunity, local stores,
local gas stations, theDollar General, stuff like
that, that do allow folksto come in and have these
larger experiences while alsonot being call it a negative

(42:33):
impact on the community itself.

Yeah.
I love that because I thinkit sounds to me and this
is what I hear, that R3 isreally this initiative that
can be used to meet communityneeds or economic input to
the extent that they want to.
But you're workingacross the state.
And so I think, one of thethings that we've heard from a
critique, frankly, of cyclistsand not that this is your
problem to solve, is whatdoes conservation look like?

(42:58):
How do cyclistsparticipate in that?
How do they give back?
What does that mean forthe land and our belong
place of belonging?
And I think Brannon you hadbeen talking a little bit
about some of the programsthat you've been working on to
develop maybe an answer to that.
I'd love for you to shareif you're willing and maybe
ready to share some of that.

Yeah.
We do have some excitingcall it updates.
They're not to theprogram specifically.
They're, I'll say programaligned in the sense that
when we first had theopportunity when we first
explored in conversation ourfoundation, taking the reins
of the R3 and the potentialto expand it statewide, we
do a lot of work with otherstate entities, including

(43:37):
the Arkansas Department ofAgriculture, and through
one of those conversationswith the Department of
Agriculture, we mentionedthis program, and it just so
happens that the Departmentof Agriculture also has some
really great programs outthere, specifically ones around
the conservation of gravelroads and the minimization of
the environmental impact thatgravel roads can have on the

(43:59):
waterways here in Arkansas.
And through that partnershipor through that conversations,
we've been able to establisha multi-year partnership.
I guess we're announcingit today with the Let's
do it with the ArkansasDepartment of Agriculture
through their Unpaved Roadprogram, which is a program
that exists here in Arkansas.
It's been herefor several years.
It's for, county officials,community leaders that

(44:20):
are maintaining gravelroads here in Arkansas.
There's funding readilyavailable in this state for
some, for county leadership,city leadership with gravel
roads that continue to becalled it a maintenance
nightmare, and it's pretty easyto pick which ones those are.
When you're out riding roads,you can see the roads that
tend to continuously be thatmaintenance quagmire for

(44:42):
some of these communities.
That funding is availablefor communities through
grants with the ArkansasDepartment of Agriculture.
One thing they've never beenable to do through that is to
find a way to disseminate thateducation to folks and the fact
that the Arkansas R3 program andour intention to work statewide.
We're gonna be working withelected officials and county

(45:02):
officials and communityofficials across this state and
be advocates for that program.
One, we'll be outthere designing routes.
We're gonna identify some roadsthat are probably a negative
impact to some of the watersources here in Arkansas, but
two, we'll have the opportunityto bring visibility to this
program here in Arkansas.
Specifically one designedfor the better building and

(45:23):
maintenance of gravel roads.

So let, help me understand that a little bit.
So these grants then are used tohelp maintain these gravel roads
so that the washout doesn't gointo the streams or the creeks
or the watershed and have somesort of adversarial impact
on wildlife or the habitat.
Is that, am I understandingthat correctly?

Yeah.
Sediment runoff from gravelroads is one of the most
prominent, pollution to ourwaterways here in Arkansas,
specifically with gravelroads aligned, some of
the prettiest roads youcan ride in this state.
Follow a little creek.
Follow a little stream.
And it's important that theway that those roads are
built or constructed arebuilt in a way that minimizes

(46:04):
that sediment runoff.
And so there is programs herein Arkansas with, through the
Department of Agriculture tohelp educate our officials on
how to build those better roads.
So we're gonna be achampion for that program
and call that, that'sprobably more back of house.
You're not gonna see maybeas much public facing as
it pertains to the ArkansasR3 program and how we

(46:24):
disseminate education to folks.
But one thing we are gonnado, the flip side of that is
if you do show up at one ofthese hubs, there's so much
more education around these,call it prioritized watersheds
in the state of Arkansas.
There's all these little.
Opportunities to educatefolks, and in this
case a gravel cyclists.
And so I'm excited for us tothen expand on through this

(46:47):
partnership with the Departmentof Agriculture to identify other
organizations in the state, likethe Illinois River Watershed
Partnership that's doing suchgreat conservation work along
the Illinois or the BeaverWatershed Alliance right here in
northwest Arkansas to take thateducation that they're creating.
We don't have to go out andcreate the education ourselves,
but there's an opportunity totake that education that they've

(47:07):
created and then present thatin a way through this R3, that
if you roll up to a hub, whenyou roll off, pun intended,
or when you roll away, punintended, you roll away with
just a little bit more educationabout the sensitivity to the
waterways here in the state.
Because if we're doing our jobsright, we're gonna showcase
those waterways throughgravel route development.

(47:28):
And what an opportunity it isto then also bring awareness
to the potential impactsof those waterways, those
beautiful waterways that you'reriding right along alongside.

Yeah, I love this.
This is a not my area ofexpertise, but that's a
different way of thinkingabout conservation that
I've not thought of before.
And I know in the conversationwith Kyle and Kyle at the
Ozark podcast, this wasone of the big questions
around how does cycling giveback and be a part of Yeah.
Maintaining our stateand what's its give back.
And I would've neverthought about that.
I just, I love hearingmore about that.

(47:58):
I want you to keep us informedon what's happening there in
that space, because that soundslike a way, and correct me if
I'm wrong, that cyclists canbe directly and indirectly
involved in helping to maintainour habitat, wildlife, fishing
stream, so that when I'mdone cycling and I'm gonna go
fishing 'cause Mike's gonnatake me fishing that, yeah.

(48:18):
That also reminds me too, 'causeI think in the past two years
on the Graveler we've gone outthere and Arkansas Game and
Fish has been part of that.
You can, they take, youfly fishing and they're,
you're doing skeet shooting,doing all kinds of things.
Explain that collaborationback with Game and Fish and
what I would the first timeI saw that was an unlikely
pairing, but when we gotout there, it seems to start
to make a lot more sense.

Part of it came from my own background in, in
hunting, fishing and I thoughtit would be a really amazing
experience to fuse cycling intothe hunting fishing community.
And so the Arkansas Graveler,Mike, you've been there both
years has those experienceskeet shooting, fly fishing

(49:01):
experiences and archery.
I think they're the threemost popular things that we
do on that five day event.
We call it, summer campfor aging children.
And,

Hey, wait a second.
Now are you talking about me?
Keep going.
Alright, sorry.
Keep going.

And, and we love that collaboration.
We'd like to expandthat collaboration.
I don't wanna preempt somethinghere, but I have in my brain
an idea of an event that wouldinclude cycling and fishing.
And we've had someconversations with some folks
in Colorado who have that.
They go, they get on theirbike, they race their bike,
they get off their bike,they fly fish, they catch a

(49:37):
fish, they measure it, andthe person who has the most
fish or the biggest fish andwins the race, wins the award.
And so that's somethingthat we may look at in the
future, but I love thatfusing those experiences
into a common experience.

I love that.
Now, the guys on the Ozarkpodcast, they cut this out,
but I proposed that like Ican take my bow on my bike
and we can have a contest tosee if I can hit a target.
Like jousting or something.
I don't know.
So if Ozark Foundationwill pick up that idea.
I'll take my bow and I'llride my bike without any hands
and we'll try to hit, thatcould be dangerous too, but

probably not gonna take you up
on that one, Mike, butalright, I'll keep fishing.
We'll stick to just fishing.

There's somebody in a rural county that's
willing to take me up onthat and I'm gonna find him.
Talk to me too and I wouldlove to maybe talk a little
bit about the Graveler aswell too, because it feels
like there should be somesort of natural collaboration
between the Graveler andR3 last year's Graveler
down through the Ouchita'sgoing into Hot Springs.
What, just an amazing event.

(50:37):
No one had heat stroke.
I didn't have heat strokethis year, so I appreciate
the change in timing.
I would love to hearhow you think about
the Graveler versus R3.
How those work together.
Are those kind ofseparate entities?
Where's your thinking on that?

I think both events are work together.
R3 may be adjacent tothe Arkansas Graveler.
Arkansas Graveler is very muchabout small communities and
going into communities that alot of folks have never been to.
I'm embarrassed to say that I'velived in and out of Arkansas
for, all my life, and I've neverbeen to Cave City Arkansas.

(51:12):
I'd never been to Glenwood, I'dnever been to downtown Mena.
The only time I'd ever beenthrough Morrilton was on
I 40 going to Little Rock.
And so the Graveleris about slowing down.
It's about appreciating smallcommunities, about spending
some money in small communities.
Kent General store, theowner of that establishment

(51:33):
had his biggest day was theday the Arkansas Graveler
cyclist came through andspent money at his store.
And I think the Thibodauxgeneral store outside of Mina
would say the same thing.
And it's about honoringrural communities.
It's about about having fun, andit's about a shared experience.
And we have some reallyexciting plans for next year.

(51:55):
We're about to head over tothe eastern part of Arkansas
to look at finalizingsome routes over there.

You gotta tell me more.
You can't just leave it there.
What is that?

I'm gonna pass.

I love the eastern side of Arkansas what?
Come on.
You gotta gimme something.
You gotta,

I'll pass the baton and to Brannon
here to talk about thatin a little more detail.
It's, but it is exciting.
And we're looking forwardto Arkansas Graveler 2026.

Mike, you're getting all the breaking
news on this podcast.
I'm telling you.
So for,

I've never had an exclusive before

The Ozark Foundation, we're excited
to announce that inOctober of 2026, we're
going to the fall y'all.
The Arkansas Graveler willinvite cycling adventure
seekers to swap mountainousclimbs for the farm rich
flatlands of the Arkansas Delta.

Oh, I love it.

In what we've dubbed our Delta Blues
addition, it will be morethan just a multi-day ride.
It's an immersive journeythat blends gravel,
roads, music, food, andcommunity Into a powerful
tribute to the Delta Soul.

Oh, now you're talking about
love language here.
All right, tell me more.
Come on.

I've got more for you.
So by connecting there'sinvestments being made in
the eastern part of thestate in the Arkansas Delta
specifically by connecting theinvestment being made in the
Crowley Ridge Gravel Trail.
Martin Smith, Amman Jordan,the team over there at Studio
Drift, as well as the DeltaHeritage Trail, and what is
a brand new rail trail in thesoutheast part of the state
that leads right to your friendRobert Moore in Arkansas City.

(53:19):
We plan to weave togethera multi-day gravel
tour that by design.
Is meant to positivelyimpact the rural communities
in Eastern Arkansas?

I love this.
The graveler for me has beensuch a beautiful event the
first year, getting to seea part of the state that I
didn't, and I would argue withanybody that there's probably
no better way to see communitiesthan on the back of a bike.
And year two, going throughthe Ouchita's, some of the
most beautiful places I'veever ridden in the world,
and the Delta has become,to me just a, one of my most

(53:49):
favorite places, the, we'veridden across the state.
We did our, obviouslyAllyson did the Arkansas
Traverse film, which hada big part of the delta.
So we've fall, I've fallenin love with the Delta.
So to hear this kind ofinitiative with the gravel
going into the delta to reallyhelp not only economically
but culturally to exposepeople to, what I've seen is

(54:09):
the beauty of, of the delta.
This is the same state.
And I think many times wedon't think about it that way.
I could get on my soapboxif I'm not careful, but
I love hearing that.
What, how do we, are you gonnahave more information coming and
when do we get to sign up andI get to sign up first, right?
Is that.

That's a great question.
I would tell folks that if,based on Mike, when you release
this, that we're recordingthis on Monday, October 6th,
we leave tomorrow on theseventh, Bobby, me and a rowdy
crew are heading to the delta.
You're gonna see us, youcan fall us along on social.
We're gonna spend the nextfive days riding our bikes,
having the 2026 experiencethat we want you to have.

(54:45):
We're doing that by design.
We're gonna vetevery mile by bike.
We're gonna be able to show youa year out the experience that
you can plan to come have in thefall of 2026 here in Arkansas.
More to come by the end of thisweek though, you'll see dates,
you'll see a good idea of whenregistration's gonna open all
those details to come again.
We're breaking it righthere on the underview.

I love it.
I'm excited.
It holds a special place inmy soul, and I know the people
that I have ridden with overthe years have fallen in love
with the Graveler and the Delta.
So just see those thingscome together and.
To know that Martin and RobertMoore and are part of that
is, yeah, it feels like familycoming into those spaces.
So I'm reallyexcited about that.

And to tie it back to R3, what this
conversation a lot have beenabout and about, now that the
foundation has the keys of theR3 program as well as we are
the production house behindthe Arkansas Graveler, the
future legacy of the Gravelerand what we leave behind
to these rural communitiesvery well may be in R3 hub.
And how exciting is thatwe're already working one

(55:46):
with Robert in Arkansas City?
The work's already begun, buthow is exciting is it that
we can go over and througha multi-day gravel event,
showcase these communities?
And even if you're notable to join us that
year, we hope you do.
But if you can't, chancesare some of the communities
on that year's route.
The impact we're the legacythat the Graveler is able to
leave behind because now thatwe are the driving force behind

(56:09):
R3 very well could be an R3hub that's there year round.
You just evergreencome ride your bike.

I love it and I would strongly
encourage everyone to followalong, pay attention to
participate in this event.
We're a year out so they canstart training for it already,
but I'm looking forward to it.

Yeah.
One thing about the Deltaedition in 2026, we believe
that it is an experience that noone can recreate anywhere else.
So if you think about themusic of the Delta, Johnny
Cash, Levon Helm the KingBiscuit Blues Festival,
and Helena will be part ofthe Arkansas Graveler 2026.

(56:48):
Learning how to call ducksin Stuttgart, Arkansas,
and enjoying some greatduck gumbo and Stuttgart.
That can't be recreatedin many places.
So we think there's somethingthat's singularly unique
about this experience.
And although we love theclimbing in the Ozarks and the
was Ouchitas, the flatlands ofEastern Arkansas are gonna be

(57:09):
fast and they're gonna be fun.

And not all of us like the climbing.
I wanna be real clear.
It sounds amazing.
I'm excited for it.
So thank you for the investmentthat you guys are making
into this state and yeah,into these communities.
It's, yeah, it feels reallywhole to me in many ways.
As we look towards R3 andGraveler and all the things
ahead maybe specifically intoR3, Bobby, maybe we'll let you
end this conversation with someof your thoughts about, from

(57:32):
your perspective, like whatdoes success look like for R3?
What do you wanna see happen?
You come from Cave City, youunderstand the impact of what
R3 can have in these spaces.
What does success look like?
What could othercommunities hope for?
How do you take what you'vedone in Cave City and seen
that success to maybe, Yeah,use that to be a gift to the

(57:53):
rest of the state if needed.

Yeah.
So success for melooks just like that.
I want to feel these communitiesdigging in and wanting to take
part of a program like this.
I wanna feel overwhelmed atthe end of the day for programs
like this to be implementedin these communities.
I would love, that'swhat I would love to see.

(58:15):
And so in my mind, exexpanding 12 to 15 over
the next hubs in the nextthree years would be ideal.
I think the education pieceof it is very important.
I think community building isvery important and I think that
the outdoor recreation spacein some of these communities

(58:36):
is needed very much for morethan one reason, but just to
get people off screens, to get'em outside, to educate and to
bring these small communitiesto be feel stronger and to
be able to take on any otherchallenges they may face.
So strengtheningcommunity is huge.
And I think that would be asuccessful R3 program to me.

You and I, we've had the chance to ride together
and be on the graveler togetherand be in these spaces together.
And so I know this is who youare in many ways, but I would
ask as you look at R3, notjust as a program, but maybe
as a way of interacting withcommunities and with people,
like what, at the core of that,what would you hope for that,
that we can use R3 or theseroutes or these events yeah.

(59:23):
To really accomplish what,what goes to the heart of
what kind of motivates you anddrives you, and what have you
seen in these spaces that youfeel like is, man, this really
makes a difference in therelationship building we have
with these real communities?

I think that just utilizing the bike
to, slow down and to be inthese spaces to together
and build new relationships.
Strengthen old ones and tojust slow down and take in the
overall environment and wave tosomeone that may not wave back.

(59:57):
But hey, we're making ourefforts as cyclists to be
responsible and to respectthe land that we're on.
And that's ultimately whatthis program is about.
And I think that using thisprogram to not only showcase
these communities, but toalso as a catalyst to build

(01:00:19):
relationships in these placesis the most important thing to
the program and ultimately will.
Lead to its success.

mike rusch. (01:00:29):
Yeah, I love that.
And I think I think, yeah, forme it's that human level of what
all of these programs and allthe work that the Ark Foundation
does and so many others.
But it's, at the end ofthe day, it's you and I out
there riding together witha group of people and seeing
each other for who we are.
And I just, I know youguys see this all the time.
So much of this conversationabout rural roads has had,

(01:00:49):
has had this kind of auraof conflict around it.
And I think every time Istep into these communities
and we acknowledge the otherperson that's there man,
those that just gets dispelledand gets broken apart, and
we see people in a new way.
And it's been fun to ride theroads with you, Bobby, out
there to do that together.
And yeah, I look forwardto what that's gonna
look like in the future.
I end every episode withkind of two questions of

(01:01:11):
around fear and wholeness.
And so maybe Bobby, I'll askyou to finish this episode up.
When we talk about fears, asyou look at what's ahead in
this space, does anything cometo mind or how would you think
about maybe what some of thefears are around the R3 program
or maybe just the work ahead?

bobby finster. (01:01:26):
So for me, the fears surrounding this project
would be that we just absolutelylay down on the job and we
don't implement these servicesand get to work with these
communities quite like whatwe want to, that the overall
perception of cycling and someof this tension that we have in

(01:01:47):
Northwest Arkansas could trickleinto areas across the state that
I know have their hands up andwant to do this type of work
and engage with this program.
And I think that we candefinitely make a difference
at what level is what I'ma little concerned about,
but I'm fully confident thatit will make a difference.

mike rusch. (01:02:10):
Yeah.
I love that.
I think we've got a modelhere in northwest Arkansas,
what it looks like toengage in the right way.
And I would share that samefear with you for sure.
The flip side to that isthis idea of wholeness.
And so as you look to thefuture, and you've spoken
about this already as youlook at this program and in
the work that you're doing,what does wholeness look like
when you feel like, Hey, thisis the way that it should be.
This is the way that ourcommunities maybe should

(01:02:31):
be interacting together?
I don't wanna put words inyour mouth, but I'm curious,
when I say that word,wholeness, what comes to mind?

To me, wholeness feels like strong
community bonds that our arenot wavered through various
points of view on thingsthat quite frankly, we're all
going to have opinions on.
And I think that to me,wholeness can somehow look
around all of our differencesto find one unique common

(01:03:02):
thread that we can all grasponto and love each other, and
to be one in rural Arkansasin whatever way you choose.
I'm sure I've mentioned toyou, Mike, is the relationships
that I have built out ofBird Eye, Arkansas, I have
friends all over the state.
That have been formedin Bird Eye, Arkansas.

(01:03:25):
And for me that place is veryspecial because of that small
delta town there, there's noother place like it for me,
just because of the friendshipsthat I've made that now
stretch across the state.
It's something truly special.
And I think creating atmosphereslike that in all these different
communities who wanna workwith a program like this,

(01:03:49):
those opportunities will behad and friendships will be
made and it will essentiallylast a lifetime for people.

mike rusch. (01:03:57):
Yeah.
I love that I've sharedthat BirdEye community space
with you, and it really isa beautiful model about what
can happen when people sitacross the table and share a
meal and listen to some musicand ride those roads together.
It, it's a bridge buildingactivity for sure.
Gentlemen, thank you.
It's been an honor toshare table with you.
I love the workthat's happening.
Can't wait to see what's ahead.
Mike, thanks for being here.

(01:04:18):
I really appreciate that.

michael spivey. (01:04:19):
It's been a pleasure, Mike.
Thanks for having us again.
And we're honored to be partof this community, to make
the community better and workwith the various organizations
through Northwest Arkansasand now throughout the state.
And it's exciting.
It's exciting time to, to bealive and to be part of such
a vibrant community that isaccepting and moving forward.
So thank you.

mike rusch. (01:04:40):
Thanks Brannon.
Thanks for being here.
I really appreciate sharingthe table with you today.

brannon pack. (01:04:44):
Yeah.
Mike, it's been a pleasure,

mike rusch. (01:04:45):
All right.
Bobby, we will be lookingfor you out there.
Can't wait to share someof those roads with you.
And we'll share all thedetails in the show notes.
But Gent s, it'sbeen a privilege.
Thank you so much.
And all right, we'll seeyou out on those roads.

Thanks, Mike.

michael spivey. (01:04:56):
Thank you.

mike. (01:05:01):
well, this conversation with the leadership of the
Ozark Foundation, it remindsme that the story of cycling
and recreation and belongingin Northwest Arkansas is
much, much bigger than bikesor roads . It's about the
people, the ones who live alongthese rural roads, the ones
who ride them, and the onestrying to find their place
in a rapidly growing region.
The Arkansas Rural RecreationalRoads Initiative reminds me

(01:05:23):
that inclusion is not justabout who gets invited to the
conversation, but who stays seenwhen the conversation shifts.
It calls us to include thecommunities who have been
historically overlooked, andthose who now feel their sense
of belonging being threatenedby the speed of growth.
These stories of small townsand farmers, newcomers,
and longtime residents,they're bound together in

(01:05:44):
the same hope that we mightlearn to see one another as
part of the same landscape.
If cycling is shaping thethen I would ask that we
take that responsibility toensure that it also shapes
its soul to make this placemore connected and more
generous and more well human.
The work of R3 is not aboutdrawing lines on a map.

(01:06:07):
It's about removing the linesbetween us that divide us and
to remind us that progressand preservation, they can
coexist, and that belongingis something that we build
mile by mile together.
To learn more, I would encourageyou to visit ArkansasR3.com
and follow the work that Bobbyand the Ozark Foundation and
the entire team are leading.

(01:06:28):
Reach out through the websiteor social media to share
your ideas, your communitystories, or your local roads
that deserve to be a part ofthis incredible network, this
incredible community of people.
I'd ask that you keepme informed as well.
I'd love to come ride thoseroutes and share the stories
of the people and theplaces that make this state
something truly amazing.
And be sure to watch forupdates on the upcoming

(01:06:49):
Arkansas Graveler for 2026.
I know I'll be there to supportan event that continues to
bring people together throughan incredible challenge
and incredible beauty andan incredible connection.
Thanks again to MichaelSpivey and Brandon Pack and
to Bobby Finster for theirleadership and to everyone at
the Ozark Foundation for beingvoices that are committed to
using cycling for more thanrecreation, but as a tool for

(01:07:12):
relationships, community, anda shared economic benefit.
And to you as you listen,I just wanna say thank you.
Thank you for being themost important part of what
our community is becoming.
This is the underview,an exploration in the
shaping of our place.

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