EP 80: From “Treatment-Resistant” to Recovery: Angie Peacock’s Story of Courage and De-Prescribing

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
To me, the most important thing is you have an
inner voice.
There's an inner guidancesystem.
And a lot of things in our worldhave taken us away from that,
even social media orrelationships or drugs or
alcohol or marijuana ormedications.
Like, but there's always thisvoice inside that's like, Angie,
you need to take a break, youknow, or Angie, the meds, this

(00:21):
is too much.
Like, what's going on here?
So when you feel this likeloving guidance coming from
within, I would just beg you tolisten to it, that it's trying
to help you on a path and tosave you pain.
And the sooner you listen tothat, the better.
Everybody has one.
Sometimes you just can't hearit, but just start asking, what
does my inner voice have to tellme today?

SPEAKER_00 (00:44):
Welcome to the Upside of Bipolar, where we
uncover the true sources ofbipolar symptoms and share
proven tools for recovery.
I'm your host, MichelleReitinger, number one
international best-sellingauthor of the Upside of Bipolar
Seven Steps to Heal YourDisorder.
In this podcast, I bring yousolo insights from my journey
and guest interviews withleading researchers and experts.

(01:05):
Join us to transform chaos intohope and reclaim your life.
Let's heal together.
Welcome to the Upside ofBipolar.
I am your host, MichelleReitinger, and I am super
excited about my guest today.

(01:25):
Angie Peacock is somebody thatI've been following for a really
long time on social media, and Ireally admire her work.
So I'm so honored to have youhere, have you joining and
sharing your story with ouraudience and your expertise.
You have so much to offer, andI'm so happy that you're here
today.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
Thank you, Michelle, for having me.
I'm excited.

SPEAKER_00 (01:44):
Absolutely.
So let's start with tell us whoyou are so that anybody in our
audience, you know, anybody whodoesn't know you might know what
your background is and what youdo to help people.
And then we'll go into yourstory because I want to make
sure people hear your story.
You have a really powerful one.

SPEAKER_02 (01:58):
Thank you.
My name is Angie Peacock, and Iwas a combat veteran who was
diagnosed with post-traumaticstress disorder and panic
disorder and bipolar and majordepression and generalized
anxiety disorder and all thethings.
And then they basicallyover-medicated me for 13 years.
I tried 40 different meds foreither my conditions or the side
effects of the medicine that Iwas taking.

(02:20):
And then at some point, a littlevoice just said, like, what in
the heck is going on here?
And to get out from underneaththat incredibly difficult combo
of lots of diagnoses and lots ofmeds.
And at some point in my healingjourney, a film crew found me
and they filmed part of myhealing journey and others of
people that were coming off medsthat were injured by them, which

(02:43):
is pretty stigmatizing to saythe least.
And for the next, for the last10 years, I've either been
touring with the film, I didthat for a few years, and then I
started coaching people thatwere coming off meds or
redefining their lives outsideof the diagnostic paradigm.
So that's who I am.

SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
That's amazing.
And your story, I if anybodyhasn't heard it, I'm gonna link
it in the show notes.
But you shared, you shared yourstory recently on your YouTube
channel, and it was so it's veryharrowing, first of all.
I don't think that anybody whohasn't ever been on psychiatric
drugs can fully understand whatit does to our brains and what

(03:19):
it feels like.
And the same thing is true forwhen people don't really
understand what withdrawal lookslike and what they're actually
experiencing.
We've we have pathologized thesesymptoms and it and it creates
this convenient scapegoat foranything that you're struggling
with is you know, all getslumped into these diagnoses.
And so can you start with, youknow, you taught you shared a

(03:42):
little bit about you being acombat veteran and then you
ended up with all of thesediagnoses and on all this
medication.
So can you share your story withthe audience so that they get an
understanding of where you'recoming from?

SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Sure.
Basically, I was in the militaryfor seven years total, and
during that time, um, I had afew sexual assaults, sexual
harassment situations that Ithought I bounced back from
pretty quickly.
You know, I had friends thatreally supported me during those
times.
And then I went to combat in2003.
So people saw that convoy thatwas really long on CNN.

(04:15):
I was like in that convoyheading toward Baghdad in 2003
at the very beginning of the warwhen women were not, you know,
in war, but we we were rightthere next to the guys.
Were we like kicking down doors?
No.
Okay.
But imagine like gunshotseverywhere, danger at any
second, you turn up yourhypervigilance because you're
trying to stay alive and you'retrying to keep your buddies

(04:37):
alive.
And so that does something toyour nervous system.
You're in a heightened stateconstantly.
It's almost like you learn howto be alert and you have to be,
or your life is on the line.
So when you're in thatheightened state for six months,
like I was, I started to get alittle panicky.
I started to like not sleep verywell.
But also, on top of that, wewere given anti-malaria
medications, which I took everysingle day, like I was ordered.

(04:59):
And that had its own mentalhealth effects because we know
now, 25 years later, that thegut is connected to the brain.
So I'm taking these antibioticsand it's giving me this horrible
gastrointestinal distress.
And I lost so much weight.
I looked like you could see allmy bones.
It's in the film if you everwant to watch it, medicating
normal on YouTube.
But I was very sick.

(05:20):
And my commander finallyrecognized that and was like,
you gotta leave.
Like, you are gonna die.
And I'm like, I know.
So I had the combination of likecombat threat with like a health
problem that nobody knew what itwas, and they couldn't treat it
because we were in back in 2003,and there was very little in the
way of testing or hospitals oranything like that.
So I basically was medicallyevacuated out back to Germany.

(05:41):
They did a bunch of testing,they found that I had
lymphocytic colitis, which isbasically medication-induced
colon infection, and I had beenliving like that and passing out
and tachycardia and diarrhea andall these things.
And then wouldn't you know it?
As soon as I got home, well, Iwas in Germany, then the very
next day, my convoy was hit byan IED.

(06:01):
So a bomb went off, and one ofmy soldiers got injured.
And so then he came back on astretcher, and then I had to see
him wake up from surgery.
And that was the day that Ilooked back, like I made the
worst mistake of my life.
And it was because I just feltlike my cup was over full with
trauma and I couldn't hold itanymore.
I was completely overwhelmed.
I was 24, I was in Germany and Ihad all this trauma back to back

(06:22):
to back.
And then I walked straight downthe hallway to psychiatry and
said, I cannot take one morepiece of trauma.
I can't.
And that was when the firstprescription was given.

SPEAKER_00 (06:33):
Oh my gosh.
And then, so one of the thingsthat I want to ask you, one
other question that I had foryou, that this is something I
wanted to ask you already.
But when you when you're in asituation like that, not only
are you experiencinghypervigilance and that, you
know, those, those kinds ofthings, and it heightens your
cortisol levels or are, youknow, running high, which
they're not designed to do on aregular basis, but you also have

(06:56):
an emotional, like a feeling ofresponsibility for the people
around you.
It did it, was it difficult, doyou think, to have to leave?
You know, like did it did wasthere, were there feelings of
like I failed somehow or or I'mleaving people behind or I
should be there?
Like, was that feeling into itas well?

SPEAKER_02 (07:12):
It was very complicated.
Like when I nobody's ever askedme that question, first of all.
So I'm looking to the leftbecause I'm retrieving old
memories.
But uh it was I remember beingon the airplane during the
Medevac.
And as soon as we took off, Ihad the feel two different
feelings at the same time.
One, thank you, Jesus, I'm notgonna die.
Because I had this feeling likeI'm going to die here.

(07:35):
I will never see my familyagain.
I'm either gonna get hit by abomb or I'm gonna die from this
illness.
So it was like every single day.
That's what I was living in.
Um, and I was making my cot upevery day and making sure all my
stuff was in order because whensomebody dies in combat, they
ship all their stuff back totheir family.
And so I had this constantawareness of like, don't make a
mess in case you die, becausethen they can take everything

(07:56):
back for you.
So I remember having a mixedfeeling of, oh my God, I'm not
gonna die in Iraq, and I shouldnot be leaving because my
soldiers need me.
And I know people, you guys,it's hard to like explain the
military to people that havenever been in it the same way
like people on meds and comingoff meds, it's not.
But it's like I was looked atlike a leader, kind of like not

(08:18):
a mother, but like a matriarchof my unit, like the go-to
person.
She knows everything, you know,she's she is very technically
proficient, she takes care ofher soldiers.
So, like to pull that out of aunit, it wasn't it wasn't good.
You know what I mean?
So I had mixed feelings.
I'm not gonna die, but I shouldnot be leaving.
Like they need me.

(08:38):
So then when my soldier cameback and he told me what
happened, it was basically someincompetence where the IED went
off and they sat there.
And that's not protocol.
Usually, if an IED goes off, youleave the area immediately
because there could be smallarms fire, there could be
something happened after,because usually they just the
insurgents back then would tryto like immobilize the convoy

(09:00):
and then they would attack it.
So our units sat there and theyshould not have been sitting
there.
And so while they were sittingthere, my soldier was bleeding
out.
So he's sitting in trauma andthey couldn't communicate with
the front vehicle to tell him togo.
So that part, I was like, if Iwas there, that would not have
happened.
Like we would have been out ofthere.
So yeah, there's lots of mixedfeelings at the same time.

(09:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Yes.
Now that I understand what we'vedone with, you know, creating
these diagnoses where it itlabels something and it ends
curiosity because you think youhave a disease, you think you
have like this underlyingetiology that's been identified,
when in fact, all we're doing islabeling symptoms, like somebody
who's running fever beinglabeled free, you know,
diagnosed with fever disorder.
So when you listen to yourstory, just to this point, it's

(09:47):
very clear why you werestruggling emotionally.
Very clear.
Like there are so many differentsources of issues that are
leading you to emotionaldysregulation and distress,
right?
But instead of them having, youknow, giving you the tools to
like, okay, this is what we needto do.
We got to help your body heal.
We're gonna help you get propernutrition, help your gut heal.
And then we got to help you, youknow, process all of this

(10:09):
emotional trauma that we havesubjected you to through, you
know, everything that happens inwar.
They just labeled you andstarted giving you medication.
And that was, you know, fromyour story.
Your story is unique, I think,in that I don't know that I've
ever talked to somebody who haswho has had experienced the
level of what I would deempsychiatric abuse that you've

(10:32):
been through.
Like the the the amount ofmedications that you were on is
like unconscionable.
It feels like malpractice to me.
So tell me what they gave youmedication.
You they started you onmedication.
What happened after that?
Like, tell me how that kind ofspiraled is what it really
happened.

SPEAKER_02 (10:48):
Yeah.
Well, right out of the bat, itwas a benzo, which I found out
since that is contraindicatedfor post-traumatic stress
because it can make it worse,which it absolutely did.
Okay.
So they were given that firstthey gave me a small dose of a
benzo.
Then within two weeks, Iremember feeling so much worse.
I was like, I couldn't hardlyleave my room.

(11:09):
I couldn't go to formationbecause standing out in the open
with a big crowd of people withairplanes flying over was so
triggering.
Like I couldn't handle it.
My nervous system was like, I'munder attack.
So, like, there was thisheightened hypervigilance and
sensitivity that I didn't havein the war zone.
Okay, but they were telling methat's your post-traumatic
stress forming.

(11:30):
So now looking back after allI've been through, I'm like, oh
my God, I had an immediateadverse reaction to these drugs
and they saw it as illness.
So then I had a high heart rate.
So they put me on a betablocker.
Then they said, let's tryantidepressants.
And I actually recently foundsome of my paperwork, and I had
written on the paperwork, like,I've tried Paxel, it made me
feel sleepy.

(11:51):
I tried Zolof, sexual sideeffects.
Like I had put all the drugsthat I had been trying because
they kept giving me stuff liketry this, try that, try it.
It wasn't scientific at all, youknow?
Um, and then I just kept gettingworse to where I couldn't like
talk without crying.
I stopped taking showers, like Ijust deteriorated very, very
quickly.
And because I was in the firstwave of the war, you know, this

(12:12):
is 2003, the very firstmovement, I was the one of the
first to come back.
So there was not an awareness ofwhat is post-traumatic stress or
like, how do you deal with it?
It was just, oh, they went towar, now they're back.
We don't really know what to dowith them.
Just give them a bunch of meds.
That was the understanding atthe time.
And then I went throughredeployment where I was gonna

(12:32):
get deployed back.
And I had two ear infections andsevere high heart rate.
And they were like, you are notgoing anywhere.
Like you're going to psychiatry,like you need to get screened
again.
And then when I went in there, Ifinally just like all this
emotion that was like held back,you know, this is like six
months after I was home.
It just all came out like vomit.
And then that's when like I lostmy career.

(12:56):
They put me in into an intensiveoutpatient program.
More meds came.
I was going to the psychiatristor a therapist like every single
day for like 90 days.
They said I couldn't be aroundsoldiers and I couldn't be
around weapons.
And it it it made me feel like Ijust shared my soul because I've
been holding all this trauma andfeeling, and now I'm getting

(13:16):
punished for it.
Like you're taking awayeverything that's important to
me, and you're telling me thatit's my problem and my brain,
and I'm just the one that'sdisordered.
But even like me saying it now,I'm like, of course I was
freaking out.
Of course I was panicking,couldn't sleep.
Of course, like I was absolutelyrobbed of like a natural healing
process or any kind ofvalidation or understanding
because nobody around me hadbeen there.

(13:38):
They don't know what it waslike.
It was just like, let's justfollow the textbook.
You're having weird symptoms,like medically retire her.
So I was medically retired.

SPEAKER_00 (13:47):
One of the other things that people are just, it
feels like we're just nowstarting to understand this is
that not only were you dealingwith like all these really
intense mental and emotionalissues that caught were caused
by the situation.
So I think it's important torecognize and validate the fact
that we create mental healthcrises with, and I'm this is

(14:09):
not, please, nobody take this asdisparaging our troops.
I am so grateful for the peoplewho are willing to put their
lives on the line, who arewilling to protect our country
and our freedom.
So please don't take that.
But I think that we there's weput people in these situations
that are not normal or healthy,right?
You're gonna put people in thisplace where they have to be

(14:29):
hyper-vigilant on a regularbasis all the time.
And not everybody, you know, soso you you have that's that is
it is normal to have the typesof reactions that you were
having, right?
And they had dysregulated yourbrain chemistry with the
medications so that you couldn'teven handle it in a way that
you, you know, your brain mighthave been able to handle it
better had you not had yourbrain dysregulated by drugs.

(14:52):
Yeah, right.
So you've got like this comingout, you know, two cut two
barrels.
I don't know what the right wordis, but you've got two different
like major issues that arecombining against you.
And the treatment itself ismaking things worse, right?

SPEAKER_02 (15:05):
And I'm 24 years old overseas with no support system.
Like it was just people in myunit.
They uh the and I had been movedto a new unit within a month in
in Washington State.
So now I'm with new people.
So I'm completely out of mycontext that I couldn't like
during World War II, the guysdid not come back with
significant post-traumaticstress because they were on the

(15:25):
boat together coming back fromEurope for months and months and
months, and they had all thistime to talk and debrief.
And even the even guys in mygeneration, the amputees, they
say I was at Walter Reed for ayear, you know, getting all
these surgeries, but I had allthis time at PT talking to the
other guys, and so there's likethis debriefing with community
that helped them, and I didn'tget any of that.

(15:48):
It was like, you know, you'reback in the United States and
now you're mentally ill.
Like, okay, but over there I wasfine.
Like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 (15:55):
Yeah.
You know, yeah.
Okay, so tell us what so whathappens next?
Because this is not the end ofyour story.
This is really that's thebeginning.

unknown (16:02):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (16:03):
Yeah.
So then I get medically retired.
Um, I was married at the time,so my husband was stationed in
Georgia, so we had to let himcome and move to Washington.
And then I had three surgeriesback to back.
So then I was given pain meds.
I get addicted to the pain meds.
I get cold turkeyed off ofbenzo.
And this is all in hindsightbecause I didn't know what was
happening at the time.
Okay.

(16:23):
Now I'm put on 18 medications atthe same time.
My husband leaves, cheats,leaves this girl.
I get leaves with the girl.
I get evicted because he didn'tpay the rent where I was paying
the bills that we had this deal.
I get evicted.
My dad has to come pick me upfrom Texas, take me back to
Missouri.
I am like popping Valium, tryingto get off opiates, like out of

(16:47):
my mind.
I couldn't even get out of theU-Haul to like go eat food.
Like it was that bad.
He takes me straight to a rehab,like a psychiatric hospital.
They take me off a bunch ofmeds, throw me on a bunch more.
I am like, they they even that'swhen I got diagnosed with
bipolar.
It's funny to me because theysaw me for 10 minutes.
And here's the funny part theyput me on all these meds for

(17:09):
bipolar, and I'm in the hospitaland I can't sleep.
And they're like, Why aren't yousleeping?
You should be sleeping.
We put you on all the rightmeds.
And I'm like, because I'm notbipolar.
Like I was telling them that,and they were like, uh, so then
they made more drug changes.
And so the next thing I know,I'm like, that's that's kind of
when I think I was on like 14 atthe time or something.
Then I get outpatient.
So basically I bounced in andout for like four or five years,

(17:31):
in and out of psych words,changing meds, changing
therapists, getting fired by atherapist, getting fired by a
psychiatrist who told me I wastreatment resistant.
I have a whole speech on that.
Um, and I'm just like lost morethan ever.
And then I really had made up mymind.
I I don't know how I can let meshare this for you two to censor
myself a little.
I was like convinced, like, thisis the end.

(17:52):
I'm just done.
I'm not doing this anymore.
I was at the lowest of my wholelife, no friends, no dating, out
of my mind on all these meds.
And I was like, I need to findlike the highest building
because I'm just gonna jump off.
Like, I'm done with this.
And then I met, I think I took,I had one last chance.
I had been calling insurancecompany.
I've been trying to find a placethat could like be more

(18:14):
holistic.
They wouldn't take me because Iwas taking a benzo.
I had diaries of like all theplaces that I was calling,
trying to get help.
And then like even a place wouldtell me, it's a weekend, ma'am.
We can't, we can't give you areferral on a weekend.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'mnot gonna make it till Monday.
Now what?
And it was like, sorry, youknow?
So then I uh I found, I think Iwent to the emergency room at

(18:35):
VA.
I don't I can't even rememberhow I met this doctor, but I I
think I enrolled in VA.
I had been scared of it, but Ifinally find this doctor and
he's like, who put you on allthese meds?
And I was like, Well, the VAemergency room, the old doctor
that I had, and the civiliandoctor, they all kind of signed
off on it together.
And he was like, Well, this istoo much.

(18:56):
And if I can get you and get youa hospital bed, will you check
in and I will take you off abunch of this?
And I was like, Okay.
So I remember like throwing awayeverything in my house that
could even be possibly beabused, like maraschino cherries
went in the trash, like anythingthat like cold medicine.
Like, I was like, I gotta getall this shit out of my house,
all these meds, all thesevitamins, all these supplements,

(19:18):
and I'm just gonna like givethis a college try.
Like, let's just see what hedoes.
So I go in the hospital, theytake me off 10.
I am hallucinating, I am hearingthings, I am talking to people,
I see like ghosts in thehallway, I am talking to the
nurse, like I am not well.
Okay.
And she's like, Well, you gottastay here for 45 days, you know,

(19:39):
they're making a bunch of yourmed changes.
And I told the doctor, like, Idon't feel safe here.
Like, this is not good.
And he's like, You're gonna befine, just hang out, just stay
here for a little bit.
So I was there for 45 days doingall these med changes.
Then I did like a 90-dayprogram.
But again, they treated me likeI was an addict, like I'm in all
these addiction programs or likethese hope hours once a week.

(20:01):
And then they made me go to AAmeetings, and I was like, I'm
not an alcoholic though, but itwas like I needed something.
So I stuck with it.
And then it took me the nextlike eight years to get off the
next eight.
And it was like anantipsychotic, a mood
stabilizer, anti-seizure meds,benzo, antidepressant.

(20:21):
And it would be like they'd coldturkey me in like six weeks, or
they let me taper for twomonths, and then they just tell
me to stop it.
And so I just kept getting lessand less and less meds.
And as that happened, I gotbetter and better and better.
So there's like an inverserelationship.

unknown (20:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (20:37):
Oh my gosh.
So there's one thing that I wantyou to share because you you
kind of had your light bulbmoment that was just like, this
isn't right.
And so can you share thatexperience with the audience?
Because I think it's really alot of us have these kinds of
experiences, you know, thingsthat kind of a switch flips in
us and we're like, this isn'tright, something's wrong, I've

(20:58):
got to do something different.
And so can you share thatexperience?

SPEAKER_02 (21:01):
Yeah, I would say there was a few.
It wasn't just one.
It was like, first of all, letme say this when you're on 18
medications, you don't even havethe ability cognitively to
understand what is happening.
You don't even understand why Iam on 18 meds?
That is a little excessive.
Okay.
And I had no one in my life atthe time like monitoring or

(21:22):
asking me questions about whatare you doing with psychiatry?
Nothing.
Everybody in my life had justwritten me off as like the
mentally ill one.
Like she went to war, she went alittle crazy, she came back,
leave her alone, she's disabled.
Like, that's literally how mycommunity and my family treated
me.
So let me say that first.
So I think the first moment waswhen I met that doctor and he
was like, Why are you on allthis?

(21:43):
Like, that was the first time itlike dawned on me.
Well, I don't know, I'm justlistening to you guys, you know.
So that was the first inkling.
The second, the the next couplewere like just these little
whispers like, why am I anxiousall the time?
I never feel good.
Why don't I have gratitude?
Why can't I feel love for mydog?
Why do I feel numb all the time?

(22:03):
Why am I not dating?
And it would be like one ofthose a year, would just be
like, why?
And then I remember one time Iapproached a therapist about it.
And I was like, I feel likedead, like numb, and I don't
feel sexual.
And then she was like, Well,that's probably your old trauma.
So then it was the gaslightingthing, you know?
And then I was like, oh my God,do I need to go work on this

(22:25):
other trauma?
You know, and then I would godown some rabbit hole with
trauma.
And I I so during that time Iread like 300 books, and it was,
believe it or not, it was BesselVanderkook's book, The Body
Keeps a Score, where it was thefirst time that I had been like
exposed to material that saidpost-traumatic stress is not a
descend, and you don't have totake meds for the rest of your

(22:47):
life, but there is ways to healit.
And that was the first time Iheard that.
And I was like, What?
So that like gave me a littlehope for once.
But yeah, it took it took yearsfor me to like really understand
like what was happening.

SPEAKER_00 (23:02):
Yeah, and one of the things that I I want to ask you
if you experience this as well,but I the gaslighting, you
mentioned gaslighting, and it isso real.
And I don't I don't think theyunderstand that that's what
they're doing.
So I I'm gonna I'm gonna givesome credit to the psychiatrists
and therapists because theydon't understand what they're
doing, but they have been theyhave been taught to gaslight

(23:25):
because I have a theory aboutthat.
Yeah, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 (23:29):
It's it's that they only have one set of glasses,
and their set of glasses is DSM5 in psychiatry.
Okay.
So when I do presentations fortherapists and stuff, I say, I
understand that you have thisset of glasses.
I'm not gonna take your glasses.
I just want you to like takethem off, and I'm gonna give you
some reading glasses.
We're gonna try on another pair.
And this this set of glasses isI want you to critically think

(23:52):
about this, but like look at theperson in front of you.
If they're on five meds andthey're not doing well, is that
really their illness, or couldthat be itrogenic?
So, like, I think they only seethings through illness lens.
That's it.
Everything is bipolar, it'sdeveloping, it's you, it's on
the individual.
It can't possibly be the meds,it can't possibly be the

(24:14):
treatment.
Is this person in front of me isdoing something wrong and we
need to rearrange the situation?

SPEAKER_00 (24:20):
Well, and we kind of we, it's almost like my
experience with psychiatrists,not all.
I had my my final psychiatrist,the last psychiatrist that I had
was very compassionate, and Iwill forever be grateful to him
for being willing to see me andsee what I was suffering with
beyond his training.
Because the first, you know, thefirst seven years with him, you

(24:41):
know, it was very like, don'tworry, we're gonna find the
right meds.
He was very like focused onthat.
And then after myhospitalizations, and he could
see how much I was suffering,and he was starting to be open
to like maybe there's anotheroption for her.
And unfortunately, it didn'tcarry into the rest of his
practice, but at least for me,he saw me as a person to be
helped rather than as a as apatient to be fixed, you know.

(25:04):
But most of the otherpsychiatrists that I saw, like
the gaslighting was next levelbecause I there were these like
inklings in the back of my mindthat thought that this doesn't
make sense.
Like when they would say, when Iwould have psychiatrists say,
like, this is like diabetes andthe medication's like insulin.
And I would, and I, you know, mybrain would want to accept that
because it was giving me youknow some kind of a frame of

(25:25):
reference.
But then I kept thinking, yeah,but we don't like play guess and
check with insulin.
Like there aren't differentkinds of insulin, and you and
you keep trying the differentones until you find the right
one.
Like there is an insulin thateverybody uses because we
understand the diseasemechanism, right?
Or the illness mechanism.
But why do you guys have to keeptrying all these different

(25:45):
medications?
Like I had a box of samplesbecause they kept trying
different things, and when itwouldn't work or I'd have really
intolerable side effects, thenthey would try something else,
and they just kept giving mesamples.
Now I'm looking at it thinking,like, oh my gosh, like all of
these things that I wassuffering were withdrawal and
like my brain was going nutsbecause of because I've been put
on something for a couple monthsand then then taken off and then

(26:06):
put on something else for acouple months and then taken
off, you know.
And sounds like this onepsychiatrist was like the first
person that saw you as a person,like started thinking, like,
maybe maybe this isn't workinghere, and maybe we need to try
something different.
Like, I gotta help this person.
But it feels like a lot of whatwe experience with psychiatric
treatment is kind ofdehumanization, like

(26:26):
depersonalization.
Like there's a you're broken andwe're gonna fix her.
And it's yeah, it feels like I'ma I'm a project to be fixed,
like, oh, let's let's study herand see what we can, you know.
Let's all let's try a little bitof this and let's try a little
bit of this.
And I'm a person that's likesuffering there and nobody's
listening to me when I'm sayingthis doesn't feel good.
I don't like this.

SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
Yep, exactly.
Um, yeah, you reminded me ofkind of at the end, I had seen
another therapist.
This is like 2016, so this ismore recent.
And the therapist was like, Oh,they were asking me all these
questions, and then they said,Um, oh, I think you have
generalized anxiety disorder.
And at that point, I was so overit.
I was like, it, I just became sodisillusioned.

(27:07):
Like, all these experts, allthey do is either give me meds
or change my meds or tell me Ihave a new diagnosis.
And I'm getting nowhere.
I've been doing that for 13years, listening to everything
that you people are telling me.
And I've I've never felt worse.
And so I got really pissed, likeat that guy, and I was like, I'm
done with this therapy.
You know what I mean?
And then right after that, Iwent into the psych word for the

(27:29):
last time.
And I remember the lady, thedoctor was like, Do you want to
be admitted?
Like she asked me, and I'm like,uh, yeah, I just drove an hour
and a half.
Why else would I come here?
Yeah, I do want to be admitted.
She like gave me this option,and then I get admitted, and I
had forgotten a bag in my carthat had feminine products in
it.
And so she admits me, but I'mnot like in the hospital yet.

(27:51):
And so I said, Can I run to mycar and get my bag?
And she's like, No, you'readmitted.
You're not going anywhere.
So then all of a sudden I'mlike, What am I kidnapped?
So then they I changed myclothes into this yellow
jumpsuit.
They put me in a plasticwheelchair, and I am wheeled via
wheelchair up this to the fourthfloor with two police officers.
And I'm sitting in the first ofall, I'm I'm I'm a lot more

(28:13):
animated now.
Okay, remember, I was verymedicated back then.
I was quiet, I was docile, I wasvulnerable, I was sick, I didn't
feel good.
I'm just sitting in thewheelchair, like, what is going
on here?
So that was kind of like it wasso obvious to me.
Like, I what how did I even getin a plastic wheelchair with two
police officers when I came hereasking for help?

(28:33):
And I didn't even do anythingfor this to happen.
But it was because my doctor hadbeen tapering my last drug, the
very last drug I was on, way toofast, and my my brain just
freaked out.
And so that was where the crisiscame from.
But that was seen as mentalillness.
This person has badpost-traumatic stress.
Look at all the years of recordsthat we have, look at all the
things she's tried.

(28:54):
She's just a lost cause.
And it was the fucking medicine.
You know?

SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Sorry.
So I no, don't say sorry.
I'm I have so much compassionfor what you've done.
And and I yes, yes, and it's themore I I want to ask you this.
So I have a lot of things to askyou, but yeah, so you're there
are a lot of times I I thinkjust surviving this and and
coming out on the other endhealed would be enough of an

(29:22):
accomplishment.
But what you have done, though,is taken your suffering and
turned it into purpose becauseyou didn't, you it wasn't enough
for you to just help yourself.
You just you really likerecognized you needed to help
other people.
So tell me about that.
Like, tell me how you went froma point where you were kind of
catatonic and barely able tolike survive your life, right?

(29:42):
To now you're like you helpother people who are suffering
that way, and you have become ahuge outspoken advocate for and
and which I don't think anybodywho's never been in this space,
you know, somebody who's notbeen in this space will not
understand what that entailsbecause it is.
I I think I mentioned this toyou before.
I was so excited to share what Ilearned.

(30:02):
Like when I when I discovered itwas actually possible to
recover, I'm like, I gotta telleverybody, man, we gotta shut
this from the rooftops.
And I was shocked, genuinelyshocked by the vitriol and anger
and attacks that I got.
Like, I was not prepared forthat.
It never occurred to me thatthat was going to happen.
And so when it first happened, Iwas like, whoa, wait a minute.
I'm just trying to help people.
Like, I just want to help sharewhat I learned.

(30:23):
I wish that somebody had told methis, so I want to help other
people.
So tell me about how that howyou got into this space.
What made you decide to turnthis into purpose and to start
helping other people for yourlife?

SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
I think, yeah, thank you.
I think it's just it was like Iwas being led a little bit.
Like first it was I was so sickin withdrawal from my last drug.
You know, it wasn't just thelast drug, it was all those
years of my nervous system beinghammered with medications, and
so I'm now I'm off ofeverything.
And now I have this likehorrible benzo withdrawal.

(30:58):
You know, people die from that.
And I lived through that.
Okay.
So I couldn't stand up to showerfor two and a half years.
I was in a constant state ofterror-level anxiety, like my
whole family had been murderedand I was next.
Like it was out of this worldthat I didn't even understand.
Like, how could a person feelthis bad?
And then you look completelynormal and you sound normal, but

(31:19):
the inside of your body was likea torture chamber.
Okay.
So I'm in this state, I'm bymyself.
I am trying to hang on to theability to like go to the
grocery store and feed myself.
Like that's how bad it was.
Okay.
And I found these Facebookgroups, maybe when I was like
six months off of everything, Iwas trying to kind of
investigate like what justhappened to me because I knew I

(31:40):
was like sick, but now I'm likea whole nother level.
And the only thing that happenedin there was I was taken off
that last drug.
So I started investigating likethe as best as I could with an
injured brain, like, what isbenzo withdrawal?
And I think I Googled it andfound some posts on Huffington
Post, and I was like, oh my God,that's what I'm going through,
you know?
And then that led me to likebenzo buddies, an online forum

(32:02):
of people that were in benzowithdrawal, which led me to
Facebook groups.
And so I'm in these Facebookgroups and I'm watching
everybody else suffer, and I'msuffering.
And like there was something inme because I'm just kind of like
a helper, which isn'tnecessarily good, but I was like
telling people, you'll heal fromthis, don't worry, keep going.
You know, people heal from this.
But at the same time, I'm like,I'm not, I'm too damaged.

(32:24):
Like I was given 40 meds.
I have multiple brain injuries,mild TBI, not from war, but
after.
I had all this trauma.
I had the family trauma, youknow, my relationships, all
those things.
And I was exposed to burnpritts.
I went to war.
I was sexually, I had all thisstuff that all these other
people online didn't have.
So I'm like, they're gonnarecover, but not me.

(32:44):
So it started like that.
Then the film found me.
The film filmed me, and I waslike, I don't, I honestly wasn't
even convinced I was gonna stayalive.
And then I thought, well, I'm inthis movie, like I can't end it
because I don't want them to belike, oh, Angie was a great
person, and then she died.
So I stay in the movie, then themovie comes out, I start touring
with the movie.
I'm like four years off, stillout of my mind, sitting in front

(33:08):
of like an audience of 300people with bright lights on me,
and I had acadesia and Icouldn't even sit still.
I'm moving the whole time, andI'm thinking, I'm gonna pass out
in front of this whole audienceof people.
But somehow the words would comeout, you know.
So then I'm seeing all theseaudiences.
We did like all together,probably like 200 appearances on
podcasts and in person andlittle small community

(33:29):
gatherings, and I hear all thesestories of all these other
people, and then I start gettingpushback here and there, you
know, meds work for people.
What you're sharing isdangerous, you know.
I'd get all these like thingsthat people would say, and you
know, I just then I just kind ofgot tired of the movement and
talking about it so much.
And I was like, I'd let me justtry to coach people and see what

(33:50):
happens.
Like, do people want me to?
Do they need coaching?
Like, do they need help?
Because like when I went throughthis, there was nobody really
ahead of me saying, like, you'regonna recover, even you, Angie.

unknown (33:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
So I did this like in this unknown, like, I don't
know what's gonna happen, butI'm too scared to end it.
So let's just see what happens.
But you know, I learned allthese things through that
process, like some things Iwaited on, some things I had to
push through, some things I hadto be let learn, like
self-compassion andself-positive self-talk, and
like all these little skillsthat I had.
Some of the stuff worked.

(34:20):
I would try it on, it didn'twork, you know.
So I was like, let me just seeif people want me to coach.
And then, you know, one personto the next to the next, and the
next thing I know, I have like afull practice.
I'm booked four months out.
I'm like, oh my God, this isnuts.
So um, I also did a lot ofadvocacy during that time.
We helped change the FDA levellabel on benzodiazepines to get
it added that benzo withdrawalis a real thing and it can take

(34:43):
months and years.
Um, I helped, let's see.
I mean, I helped intercompassinitiatives, start a lot of get
a lot of community brought tothem.
I helped Benzo Info Coalition.
I help a little bit now and thenin the background.
I run peer support groups foroutro health, which help people
taper antidepressants safely.
So I've done a lot of stuff, youknow.

(35:04):
Just I part of it is like I'mmad.
And then part of it is like alittle bit of revenge.
Like these assholes almostkilled me.
And I have something to sayabout that.
I'm not just gonna go quietlyinto the wind.
You mess with the wrong person,you know?

SPEAKER_00 (35:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's I think that it every oncein a while I would have I don't
really experience this anymore.
But when I first started this,because this is I've been
working for not as long as you,but I'm I've been doing this for
about five years.
And the first couple years,thankfully, I had somebody who
was like, no, you gotta keepdoing this.
So I would keep coming back toit.
But there were so many timeswhen I'm like, nobody really

(35:40):
wants to hear what I'm saying,and why am I doing this to
myself?
You feel the same.
Like, yeah, yeah.
And you're just you just thinklike nobody cares.
But once you actually starthelping individuals, when you
start helping somebody andyou're actually seeing their
life get better, it totallychanges what you're doing
because I don't like I don't,it's just noise to me now when

(36:01):
somebody attacks me online, likeit's just noise.
Like, you know, I I'm and I feelcompassion actually because I
think I am so sorry that youthat you've bought into this so
fully.
I'm so sorry that, you know, andI'll tell and I'll say things
like, you know, if somebody'slike, Med saved my life, and I'm
like, I'm so happy you're happywith your treatments.
I'm I'm really happy for you.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 (36:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
However, there are there's a reason, you know, for
in my space, 83% of the peoplewho are diagnosed and treated
for bipolar end up severely,severely impaired, which is
disabled.
Like there's a reason thatthat's happening.
And once you understand, onceyou see behind the curtain, you
can't unsee it.
Like understanding how thediagnoses were created in the

(36:40):
DS, you know, there's nounderlying ideology that it was
identified for these disorders.
They just came up with likelate, you know, groups like this
group of symptoms will callthis, and this group of symptoms
will call this.
And then when people didn't fitwithin the category, they just
expanded the category, right?
And so it's and even like when Igot that diagnosis, I didn't, I

(37:04):
wasn't hypomanic.

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
I did not impulsively do anything, and I
did not stay awake.
And I I still to this day waslike, why did they give me that
diagnosis?
It had to be two things.
One, that my dad was bipolar andhe had seen that doctor before.
So he knew my dad is bipolar, sohe just connects the dots.
The second reason, because thatparticular psych hospital, they
get paid more to diagnose peoplewith bipolar because they need

(37:27):
more treatment.
So he gets more visits.
There's nothing scientific aboutit.
But me as a patient, that is onmy record forever.
So every time I go to thedoctor, every time I go to the
emergency room, they see thatfirst.
And then I, like I said, I amseen through that lens.
This is a bipolar person sittingin front of me.
So anything I say is discreditedimmediately, you know?

(37:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that is after a 10-minutevisit.
10 minutes.
10 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
It's so infuriating to me.
And one of the things I've had acouple times when people will
come to me and they'll say,Yeah, I have an appointment with
the psychiatrist, but I've beenlooking at other things.
So I'm like, do not go to thepsychiatrist.
Like, that is not going to tellyou why you're experiencing
these symptoms.
That the diagnosis does notidentify the source.
All it's doing is identifyingthe cluster of symptoms.
It's like, and I again, it'sit's like somebody who's running

(38:19):
fevers being diagnosed withfever disorder.
It does not tell you why youhave the fever, it just
identifies that you have thesymptoms, right?
So that's not going to give youan explanation, but it often
successfully ends curiosity intothe source of the symptoms.
Like people stop looking foranswers because they think
they've been told what's wrongwith them.
And, you know, and then when themedication isn't helping, it's a

(38:40):
very self-serving diagnosis,too, and prognosis, because to
say, you know, bipolar is, I wastold bipolar is chronic and
curable, you'll have it for therest of life.
The same things you were toldabout, like PTSD and these
things, like they tell you it'schronic and curable, you're
gonna have it for the rest ofyour life.
It's neurodegenerative, youknow, it'll get worse if you
don't treat it.
You know, it all of these, allof these things that they say

(39:03):
are very self-serving becausewhen the treatment doesn't work,
oh, it's just your bipolar, youknow, it's just the nature.
We just got to keep workinguntil we find the right
combination of medications.
And it's so unscientific.

unknown (39:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:14):
So let me ask you, you have letters behind your
name.
How did that happen?
Where along this line did youget a degree?

SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
Yeah.
I was graduating with mybachelor's, let me think.
I think I was a year and a halfoff.
And thank God, thank God, that Ihad front loaded my whole degree
where all the hard classes wereat the beginning and only the
easy stuff was left at the end.
So I was in withdrawal, going towatercolor art class with harm

(39:41):
OCD, I'll just put it like that,trying to paint, like, can't
even sit in a chair, academia,suicidal thoughts, intrusive,
like out of my freaking mind.
Can't even stand up to take ashower.
And I'm sitting there trying tolook at the paintbrush, like
paint something to keep me inreality, you know?
So all I had was like art andwriting and medical

(40:02):
anthropology, I think, left.
That was it.
And I finished my degree.
And then I was like, I can't,I'm done.
And then what happened was myrehab counselor, because I was
in the special program forrehabilitation for mental
illness.
She's like, We will pay for yourmaster's if you stay in school
because you did so well atbachelor's.
And usually VA does not do that.

(40:22):
Okay.
So I was like, uh, what?
I mean, that's$200,000 worth ofeducation.
Plus, I would get 1,800-monthstipend for housing.
And then I was like, I don'tknow if I can do it.
And she's like, You needsomething to stay in reality
because you are in, because shedid understand what I was going
through a little bit.
So I was like, okay, I have noidea how I'm gonna do this, but

(40:42):
we're gonna do a master's degreein withdrawal with a brain
that's completely shattered.
And I just viewed it like I'llnever forget the first day on
campus.
I said to myself, this is braininjury rehab.
It is making me be somewhere.
I have people around me.
I'm in reality.
I have to take this one class ata time, one assignment at a
time, one sentence at a time.
And that's just how it's gonnahave to be done.

(41:03):
And I don't know if I can do it.
If I can't, I will stop.
Like I can just can't, like Ijust drop out.
Like, what else can I do?
So again, I'm in this film, andthe filmmakers are like, Angie,
yes, stay in reality.
You have to, you know, because Iwas at home alone with my own
thoughts, with this shatteredbrain, like on the edge of
psychosis for years.
Okay.

(41:23):
So something grounded and inreality was helping me stay out
of my my symptoms so much asmuch as I could.
So I earned a master's in socialwork.
And to be fair, it's one of theeasiest degrees you can get.
There's no tests, there's nomath.
Um, and I did that kind of onpurpose because I originally
wanted to be clinical psychologyPhD, but I was like, there's no
way.
And then I wanted public health,but I couldn't even study for

(41:45):
the GMAT because I was so out ofit.
So I just was like, or G R E,sorry.
So I was like, this is what it'sgonna be, you know.
So thank God.
Um, and I'm just lucky to havemy internship supervisor.
He had known me.
He was my director of a programwhen I was in California in an
inpatient PTSD program.
He was now my supervisor.
And then my second supervisorwas a nun who did not believe in

(42:08):
pathologizing, who believedeveryone had relationship
problems or emotional problems,but it wasn't a medical problem.
She was a nun and a nurse.
So I just got so lucky.
Everything was like, you know,just keep going and you just
keep one class at a time.
And so I earned a master's insocial work.
I did an extra year of somaticexperiencing training after

(42:30):
that.
I did some gestalt training, Idid some peer mentoring
training.
I had done that like yearsbefore speaker training, media
training.
So like I did as much as I couldto keep me busy, but I promise
you, my brain did not remember alot of that.
It's kind of blurry, but it gotme through like the hardest part
of my life, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 (42:50):
Well, and one of the things that you, if there it
there's a theme in your life,which is that you when you're
trying to recover, you have tohave a reason to keep going.
You have to have something, apurpose in your life and a way
to focus.
You know, Victor Frankel talksabout that man's search for
meaning.
You know, that his when he wasin the concentration camps, you
know, he was projecting his mindinto the future where he would

(43:13):
be standing in front of a groupof students, sharing what he
learned through that experience.
And that helped him to keepgoing in hell.
Like it kept him going throughhell because he could he could
help himself see beyond thehell, right?
And have a purpose to what hewas doing.
And that's what you what you'retalking about, like you know,
helping other people,advocating, sharing your

(43:35):
experience, and then hearingother people share their
experiences, and then startingto help people through their own
withdrawal.
What did you do to learn how todo that?
Like, how did you learn how tohow to coach people through the
withdrawal process?

SPEAKER_02 (43:49):
Good question.
What happened was someoneconvinced me to make a YouTube
video when I was six months off.
And I just sat on my floor and Iranted.
You can hear it in my speech.
Like, I'm talking super fast.
I barely am taking a breathbecause I'm just like in this
terror state.
And I was basically saying,like, I think this is why
veterans end their lives becausethey're put on a bunch of meds

(44:10):
and this just happened to me.
And I've never wanted to be hereless than right now.
And it has to be because of thismet these medications.
And then six months later, Iposted another video.
And then seven or eight monthslater, when I had like a
somewhat okay day, I postedanother video.
I couldn't really post regularlybecause I was so out of it.
But like every once in a whileI'd be like, okay, I think I
need to talk about this.

(44:30):
So I just started like talkingabout things that I was learning
or things I was experiencing.
And so I was kind of like beingvulnerable and transparent about
the process.
And then people startedcommenting, like, that's
happening to me too.
Did you have dizziness?
Did you have pots?
Like they'd start asking mequestions and then I'd reply.
And then that was 10 years ago.
So now I have like 8,000subscribers.

(44:53):
And I mean, I get comments fromall over the world, from Israel,
from Iran, from Portugal, likejust people all over the planet,
just like, this has happened tome.
Look what my doctor did.
So then I when I startedcoaching, people would just ask
me questions at first, or theywould seek reassurance, or like,
will this symptom go away?
Did you have this symptom?
Have you heard of this withother people?
And of course, because I hadbeen in different advocacy

(45:15):
roles, like I had, you know,experience working with people
that were researching this ordoctors that had done this for
20 years that I had askedquestions of.
So I was just sharing likeeverything I had learned through
that film, through all thepanels, through my own
experience.
And I just, and then I'd learnfrom the clients because I would
watch them.
You know, there was times I'mnot gonna lie, like I was like,

(45:37):
I don't know if this person'sgonna make it.
Like, this is too hard.
It is too hard.
Like, I don't, I don't want toglamorize withdrawal.
It is, it's the hardest thing.
It's it's a hundred times harderthan going to combat.
Okay.
Well, I have people that havehad cancer and they say, I will
take cancer a hundred timesrather than do this again.
Okay.
It is not, it's like your wholebrain is hijacked by a chemical.

(45:58):
You rip the chemical away, andthen you're like, here you go,
see ya, go act normal.
And your body's like, I can't.
I have been dependent on thesedrugs for 25 years or whatever
it is, you know.
So I learned a lot from theclients, like watching what
worked for them, watching peoplemake mistakes, like taking a
bunch of supplements.
You know, I know that might havehelped other people that you
know.
I saw people take things and itmade them worse.

(46:20):
I saw some people be able totake those when they had milder
injuries.
I saw people try to go back onmeds or go on in this or go on
that.
And then I just kind of youstart to make patterns like
these people are severe.
This certain thing can work forthem.
These people are moderate, thisthese certain things work for
them, these people are mild,they'll be fine in six months,
you know, just let them keepthem busy, you know, kind of

(46:42):
thing.
So you start to see likepatterns emerge basically.
But uh I learned a lot fromthem, a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
So when do you still coach people?
Do you still have clients and doyou still coach people?
So when somebody works with you,what does that look like?
What is it like what do you do?
How how are you helping them?

SPEAKER_02 (47:00):
Good question.
Um, usually I have differentkinds of people.
So I'd say there's probably likesix distinct groups.
There's people that are justcoming to this, like, I don't
know if I want to take medsanymore.
Can you just help me get someinformation?
Because I need to think about itand learn about it.
Okay.
Then there's people that areactively tapering.
They have already made thatdecision, they're working with a
doctor, they have a compoundingpharmacist, whatever the case

(47:22):
may be, they're tapering.
Then I have people that wereeither cold turkey or taken off
too fast by doctors, they are inacute level withdrawal.
Then I have people that are twoyears off or more that still
have symptoms.
I was in that group, I wasseverely protracted.
I still have symptoms to thisday.
They're kind of mild.
I'm 10 years off.
Then I had people that theirparents or their family members,

(47:42):
or they have a kid with seriousmental illness and they're
trying to like find a good wayto harm reduce.
Like they're on too many meds,like, how do I talk to the
doctor?
What could I give them?
What can I show them?
That kind of thing.
So I have a group offering whereit's all peer supported, group
coaching.
You know, people bring questionsor topics like I'm really angry,
I feel betrayed by the system.

(48:03):
What do I think about mydiagnosis?
Am I mentally ill?
Am I not?
Is this medication induced?
Is this not?
Like people are trying to figureout a lot of stuff for
themselves, you know?
And we do that like in a groupformat.
The individual stuff, it's alot, it's it's a really good
question because I actuallystruggle with this with this a
lot.
Like, what am I doing?

(48:23):
What am I actually doing?
And honestly, the only thing Ican tell you is I know what this
process is like.
I know what the body is capableof, I know what healing looks
like, and I know that so wellbecause I've seen it thousands
of times.
I don't worry about the otherperson.
I know that what they'reexperiencing is suffering to a
thousand degree, but I knowtheir brain is trying to figure

(48:46):
things out and it's trying torecover.
And so I'm just trying to helpthem understand that process and
that I know and I know theydon't know and they don't feel
it, but like they're gonna getthere.
So partly I'm like holding thehealth that they can't feel for
themselves.

SPEAKER_01 (49:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (49:01):
I'm helping them navigate the process, I'm
helping them keep their nervoussystem safe as it's possible.
I'm helping them find ways todeal with the suffering.
I say, like, I call myself ahealing coach, but I should be a
suffering coach because thepeople that I talk to, they're
suffering.
And so we have to learn how tonot be afraid of our suffering.
That's the cardinal mistake thatwe all made.
That I was afraid of mysensations and my symptoms, and

(49:24):
someone taught me to be afraidof that.
And like now I don't really havea choice.
Like the suffering is here, mybody's trying to recover.
I need to be in relationshipwith that with least resistance
as possible.

SPEAKER_00 (49:35):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (49:36):
And that's it.

SPEAKER_00 (49:36):
Well, there's there is so much power in having
somebody who has has been downthe path and then is willing to
come back and walk others downthat same path because they're
like, it feels very scary.
It feels like we're walking inthe dark.
That's what it felt like to me.
When I was going throughrecovery, I didn't actually know
I was recovering.
I believed until until a fewyears ago.

(49:57):
I still believed it wasn't untilI read Anatomy of a Depidemic
that my brain was like, wait aminute, hang on a second.
Because I was when I first thefirst two years, if you go back
and look at, and I didn't pullit down because I thought I
that's honest.
I want to be honest with people,and I still believed bipolar was
chronic, it was incurable, I'dhave it for the rest of my life.
Like, I was still I was afraidto tell people that medications

(50:18):
were causing problems because Ithought, well, maybe that's true
for me and not true for somebodyelse.
So I was like, there was a lotof anxiety and fear around like,
what I don't want to hurtsomebody.
So I was very careful about whatI said until I started reading
Robert Whitaker's stuff, likeanatomy of an epidemic, Madden
America, you know, and thenstarted reading Joanna
Moncriefs, and and then I gotreally angry.

(50:38):
I was like, I have been totallylied to.
Like, this is all not true.
And yeah, but I think that whatyou're saying is something that
I've experienced myself, whichis a lot of what you're doing is
intuitive because you wentthrough it yourself, then you've
educated yourself further,you've learned from other
people, you've learned bywatching what other people are
going through in that.
And so you kind of just know,like leading somebody down a

(51:02):
path, you know, that you can seeand they can't see, and you're
just kind of intuitively saying,okay, this is now we're gonna
turn this way, and now you needto just take this step this way,
and yeah, and and help, andhaving them kind of holding the
hand, you know, metaphorically,of somebody else who, you know,
it's something solid to keepthem moving forward and feel
like, okay, they're still here,they're still with me.

(51:24):
They keep telling me that it'sokay, that I'm I'm getting
closer to the end of this,right?
And there's tremendous power inthat, in that just being there
with somebody and saying, Yes,you can get there.
Yes, I promise you, this isgonna get better.
I know this sucks right now, andand this is how it feels right
now.
And so they they know you knowwhat they're feeling, right?
And then they can then and youcould you're like, yeah, this is

(51:46):
this sucks, but it's gonna getbetter.
And just trust me, you know.
So tell me what I know thatyou've I've seen you before,
Sharus, and I'm only bringingthis up because you've shared it
openly, that there are timeswhen you're just like, I need a
break from this, right?
Oh, yeah, I'm on a break rightnow.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and I let me tell you whyI'm asking you about that,

(52:08):
because I think that there'sthere's an idea.
I'm sure you get can get accusedof this all the time like I do,
that you are misdiagnosed or oryou're just you know, you're
just in uh that's hilarious.
What is it?
I don't know why.
You were worried well.

SPEAKER_02 (52:23):
You're the worried well.

SPEAKER_00 (52:25):
Yeah.
Well, or or that you or thatyou're just in remission and
then it's gonna come back,right?
Like there's there's this somany people are so bought into
the idea that these areincurable conditions and that
you can't be, you know, theycan't be cured.
So if you are healing or you arehealed, you were misdiagnosed,
or you're not really healed,you're just in remission.
So there's this idea that thateither you're mentally well or

(52:48):
you're mentally ill and there'sno in between.
And so you want to bother.
Yeah, so it's a little bit more.
But it's but I but it's like Iwe have life is hard.
Life is hard, yeah.
You know, especially if you'vegot if you've been injured
internally, right?
Life is gonna be hard and itcontinue to be hard.
But once you learn what you'reactually dealing with, you can

(53:08):
see it through a different lensand you know how to take care of
yourself and you know what youneed to do.
And that's why I I admire whatyou're doing right now in giving
yourself a break because you'relike, this isn't healthy.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnado what's healthy for myself.
So can you talk a little bitabout that?
Because we got to stop havingthis idea that like once you're
healed, you're never gonna havea challenge again, you're never
gonna have a problem again.

(53:29):
Like that's such a bad,unhealthy way to do the world.

SPEAKER_02 (53:32):
I'm glad you brought this up because I don't talk
about this on my channel or withany of my stuff or any of my
people ever.
But it because of how publicI've been, it's like everybody
views anything happening to meas it's withdrawal.

SPEAKER_01 (53:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (53:46):
And it's like, no, I have a life and I have problems
and I have had stress and it'snot withdrawal.
But that's what their glassesare, you know, everything is a
withdrawal.
Or for you, everything isbipolar.
You know, for me, it's likeeverything has to be, she's in a
setback, or oh my God, she'sgetting worse.
It's not really relapse, youknow.
But no, and it's couldn't befurther from the truth.

(54:08):
But so if I'm honest, the reasonit's like, hold on, let me say
it like this.
When you come out of such ahorrible state and you start
feeling better, you want to do alot because you missed out.
So basically, I missed like 20years of my life.
Okay.
So then I'm traveling, I'mtrying to meet friends, I am
trying to date, I'm working fulltime, I'm building a business,

(54:30):
I'm hiring people, then I'mposting YouTube content, reading
all the comments, answering allthe emails.
Then I lose a friend to suicide,one of my best friends last
year.
Then I lost my dad.
Okay.
And then I had to like blocksome siblings.
And at some point, Angie needsto take a break to catch up, to
let life catch up on her, okay?

(54:51):
Because here's the thing I'velearned your own business.
Your insecurities, yourvulnerabilities, your weak
points, they all come out inyour business.
So what has come out for me is Iwork too much, I give to other
people, and I don't give tomyself.
And I don't want to keepreenacting that trauma from my
childhood.
So I'm like, no, that's notmental illness, that's not
withdrawal, that's where I'm atand getting my life back after

(55:15):
20 years of not having it.
You know, so it's like, can Iwork full-time?
Can I make a decent salary?
Sure.
Do I really want to do that andrun myself ragged?
No.
No, I already did that, youknow?
And so it's just really like areadjustment, but it like, I
should put it like this like itserved its purpose because I was

(55:37):
like so excited about this andwanted to help a lot of people.
And I did that, and now I'm kindof tired, you know, and I have
to readjust things.
And my business works for, I hada business coach tell me this.
She's like, your business modelworks for your clients, but it
doesn't work for you.
Like you're given too manyone-on-one hours and you're not
doing enough group and you don'thave enough content behind like
a paywall or a portal so thatpeople can come and gather, like

(56:00):
that would be a better model foryou, not giving all your time
one-on-one.
Because you can only help somany people when you do that,
you know?
So it's kind of like a lot ofthings came to a head, and I was
like, that's it.
I need to stop, you know.
And then because I had the Istopped it right after my dad
died in November, but it takeslike three months just to play
catch up to all the emails andall the appointments that were

(56:21):
booked.
And so I just am officially likeon a break in the last week.
It's taken all that time, youknow.
So, and I just I'm enjoying it.
Like I I'm feeding myself reallywell.
I'm on day 10, I think, of keto.
I'm working with a keto coach todo that.
I've been going to the gym andwalking, and I just want to get
back to like reading and writingand doing the things I love.

(56:42):
And it doesn't need to be formoney, you know?
And I have enough content outthere that people can watch and
see, and I'll do what I can withthe groups, but that's kind of
where I'm heading.

SPEAKER_00 (56:52):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I I am so happy that I had thechance to talk to you.
I've been following you for solong, and I really admire what
you're doing.
You have done so much good forthe people that are suffering.
And I think that it's the thingI'm so grateful for is it's hard
when I was on seven differentmedications once, you know, at

(57:13):
one time I was on seven.
I can't even fathom being on 20medications.
I can't even or 18.
I can't, but I mean 18medications.
That's almost three times what Iwas on.
And I was like flat.
There was like zero affect, no,I couldn't feel anything.
I felt totally numb.
No, I felt like a robot.
And yeah, yeah.
And the fact that you had thetruly the grit and tenacity to

(57:38):
survive and then to turn aroundand be willing to go back and
help others.
Like I understand why you werein the military.
Like that kind of that kind ofdesire to to sacrifice and help
others and be willing to, youknow, be there for other people
and go back and get somebody,even though you're going back
into the fire, you know, isincredible.
And also, I think it takestremendous courage to be able to

(58:01):
take care of yourself, you know,to be able to step back and say,
I don't care what you say, butthis is what's good for me, and
I'm gonna do what's, you know,I've I've spent so much of my
life sacrificing for the peopleI've got to take a break and
take care of myself, or I won'tbe around to do anything.

SPEAKER_02 (58:15):
I'm not good for nobody.

SPEAKER_00 (58:16):
Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_02 (58:17):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:19):
Oh man.
Okay, so where can people findyou if they if they want to
connect with you?
Because I think a lot of peopleare gonna want to connect with
you for sure.

SPEAKER_02 (58:27):
Pretty much just angie peacock anywhere, like
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube,LinkedIn, X, Angie Peacock.com.
I just go by my name becausethey said that was the best
thing to do.
Um, everywhere.
I'd say YouTube.
You can see interviews like meand Michelle Michelle's
interview will be up thisweekend where I interviewed her.

(58:48):
Um, and you can see lots of hopevideos, my own process, the
process of other people, thehealing stories of other people
that have been through this andde identified with diagnosis and
meds, or taken a harm reductionapproach to psychiatric care.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (59:02):
Yeah.
And what's the one what is theone thing that you hope people
will take away from ourconversation today?
What's the most important thing?

SPEAKER_02 (59:10):
To me, the most important thing is you have an
inner voice.
There's an inner guidancesystem.
And a lot of things in our worldhave taken us away from that,
even social media orrelationships or drugs or
alcohol or marijuana ormedications.
Like, but there's always thisvoice inside that's like, Angie,
you need to take a break, youknow, or Angie, the meds, this

(59:32):
is too much.
Like, what's going on here?
So when you feel this likeloving guidance coming from
within, I would just beg you tolisten to it, that it's trying
to help you on a path and tosave you pain.
And the sooner you listen tothat, the better.
Everybody has one.
Sometimes you just can't hearit, but just start asking like,
what does my inner voice have totell me today?

(59:55):
Mine says I need some AC verysoon because I'm really hot.
It's like 95 degrees.
But it could be a little likethat.
It could be like, get away fromthis person, they're bad for
you.
You know, who knows?
But please listen to that innervoice.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:08):
You're amazing.
Thank you so much.
I'm so came on here.
That's amazing.
All right.
And please connect with Angie.
I'll make sure everything'slinked in the show notes.
And until next time, upsiders.
Thanks for joining me on theUpside of Bipolar.
Your journey to recoverymatters, and I'm grateful you're

(01:00:30):
here.
For more resources, visitwww.theupsideofbipolar.com.
If you're ready to dive deeper,grab my book, The Upside of
Bipolar, Seven Steps to HealYour Disorder.
If you're ready to heal yoursymptoms, join my monthly
membership, The Upsiders Tribe,to transform chaos into hope.
Until next time, Upsiders.

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