020:THRIVE-ing is Built, Not Found: Lessons From Zimbabwe

This episode is best experienced IN FULL!! 

We recorded this live in Zimbabwe during the THRIVE veterinary wellbeing retreat—and the video version brings it all to life. From wildlife encounters to breathtaking landscapes and powerful human moments, you can watch the full experience unfold on YouTube here.

In this special episode of The Veterinary Culture Lab, Andi records live from Zimbabwe during the World Wide Vets THRIVE retreat—joined by co-host Dani Herbst to explore what it really means to thrive in veterinary medicine.

Grounded in research on emotional intelligence in early-career veterinarians, this conversation unpacks a powerful insight: emotional intelligence does not simply develop with experience—it is shaped by the environments we are part of.

And when the research points to mental health, social support, and time spent outdoors as key drivers of emotional intelligence…this episode brings those findings to life in real time.

Through conversations with veterinary professionals attending THRIVE, you will hear how connection, reflection, and stepping away from the day-to-day demands of practice can shift perspective, build emotional capacity, and create meaningful change.

From honest reflections to moments of humor and insight, this episode highlights how wellbeing is not just an individual effort—it is something we build together.

You’ll hear:

• What the research says about emotional intelligence in veterinary medicine
• How social support reduces isolation and builds connection
• The impact of time outdoors on perspective and wellbeing
• Why experiences like THRIVE can support real growth
• Reflections from veterinary professionals experiencing this work firsthand

Whether you are feeling energized or exhausted, this episode invites you to consider what it might look like to create the conditions that help you—and your team—truly THRIVE.

Resource Links: 

Episode Article:

Title: Improved mental health, social support, and time outdoors are associated with higher emotional intelligence in early-career veterinarians: A longitudinal study

Authors: Tipsarp Kittisiam, DVM, PhD ; Caroline Ritter, DVM, PhD; Emily Morabito, MS; Adam Stacey, PsyD, RDPsych; Deep Khosa, BVMS, PhD; Andria Jones, DVM, PhD

DOI: 10.2460/javma.23.10.0566 

WorldWide Vets
WWV THRIVE - February 2027 Dates and Details

Zimbabwe Man - Donkey

What Do You Think? Reach out to us and let us know at [e-mail]

Your Hosts:
Andi Davison LVT, CAPP, APPC 

Josh Vaisman MAPPCP, CCFP

At Flourish Veterinary Consulting we renovate veterinary cultures. We diagnose what’s working, blueprint what’s next, and train every team member - blending positive psychology with real-world experience - so thriving becomes the norm, not the myth. 

Timestamps:

02:06 Meet Dani Herbst

05:22 Mental Health Stigma

08:54 Dani’s Path to Purpose

13:11 Worldwide Vets Mission

14:54 Inside the Thrive Retreat

22:32 Emotional Intelligence Study

25:46 Findings and Thrive Validation

31:55 Vulnerability and Support

34:49 Delegates Share 

37:14 Wellbeing Skills For Leaders

48:26 Safari CE And Connection

51:43 Grounding Outdoors Reset

54:39 Rapid Fire Delegate Takeaways

59:57 Laughs And Farewell

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_08 (00:04):
Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where
science meets real-worldapplication.
I'm Andy Davison.

SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
And I'm Josh Weisman.
Together we'll show you anevidence-based blueprint for
renovating culture in yourveterinary team.
One episode at a time.

SPEAKER_08 (00:23):
This is not your typical podcast conversation
because we're recording fromZhabwe, surrounded by wildlife,
welcoming vocals, and big openskies.
And a group of veterinaryprofessionals exploring what it
really needs to thrive.
In this special episode, you'renot just going to hear from us,
you're going to hear from thepeople living this experience as

(00:44):
we explore what the researchsays about emotional
intelligence, connection, andtime spent outdoors.
This is a different kind ofepisode for us.
And trust me, this is one thatyou're going to want to both
hear and see.
Well, hello everybody.
I am pretty darn excited forthis particular episode of the

(01:07):
Veterinary Culture Lab.
Because typically when you hearmy voice, you hear Josh's voice
pipe in pretty quickly after me.
But that's not gonna be the casethis time.
Because I have a very specialepisode in store for you, and I
have a very special co-host withme that you're actually getting
to see.
Because for those of you thatare watching on YouTube, right?

(01:29):
Yeah, you're getting to see us.
And if you're not watching onYouTube, if you go to YouTube,
you'll get to see everythingthat goes along with this
special episode.
Now, I obviously am not in myusual recording spot.
I'm not even in the samehemisphere.
Right now, I am in Zimbabwe, andI'm recording this episode

(01:53):
during the week of Thrive.
Thrive is a veterinarywell-being retreat, and it is
hosted by the worldwide vetsteam that you're gonna hear all
about because they are anincredible organization doing
awesome good work.
But first, I want to introducemy co-host because I have
brought the amazing andincredible Danny Herbst.

(02:14):
Thank you so much for beinghere.

SPEAKER_03 (02:15):
Thank you for having me.
I'm really excited to be part ofthe Veterinary Lab.
Right?
Flourish Veterinary Lab.
Here I am.
I know.
Right?

SPEAKER_08 (02:24):
She's on the podcast.
She's doing it.
This is a big deal.
We have international hosts now.
I know, I know.
And we've had an absolute blasttogether.
So Danny is a friend of mine.
She's also a colleague.
You're gonna hear about all ofthe awesome things that she does
here in just a few minutes.
But like I said, we are comingat you from Zimbabwe.
And on the other side of thecamera is a beautiful scene of

(02:48):
what?

SPEAKER_03 (02:49):
The savannah?
Is that what we call it?
The savannah, the waterhole.
Okay.
Really big umbrella acaciatrees.
We may get interrupted by a herdof elephants and be known to
happen.
I mean, oh no, right?

SPEAKER_08 (03:01):
Oh no.
If that happens, don't worry.
We'll definitely flip the camerafor you all to see that because
we are nowhere near as cool asan entire herd of elephants.
But we spent our time this week,um, gosh, just exploring Africa,
exploring ourselves and out onthe savannah.
That's the word now.
Um experiencing all of thethings that you can see out on

(03:22):
game drives.
And it's been absolutelyincredible.
Let's see.
So far this week, we've seenbaboons, we've seen elephants,
um, we've seen giraffes, we'veseen zebra, yeah, which we like
to refer to as disco donkeys.

SPEAKER_03 (03:36):
Yeah, just a fun little fact from Zim.
Disco donkeys, hashtag discodonkeys.

SPEAKER_08 (03:41):
Yep, yep, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (03:42):
What else have we seen that's been really cool?
Bushbuck, Kudu, Impala.
We saw Addie and I on our ownlittle adventure, and we've seen
a pride of lions, RhoneAntelope, which if you don't
know what they are, go and havea look, and Sable, which are
absolutely stunning.
It's all such a gift.

SPEAKER_08 (03:59):
And um every time you come around the corner and
there's something new greetingyou, it is breathtaking.
Absolutely breathtaking.
Thank you so much for sharingthis with me.
I'm so happy that I got to shareit with you.
So, Danny, as you know atFlourish, we promote human
flourishing within theveterinary community, within
ourselves, within our hearts,within our minds.

(04:20):
And thriving is something that Ifeel like we can all relate to
in our life and in work.
And considering, Danny, that yougrew up here in Zimbabwe, one of
the many, many things that is sospecial to me about calling you
a friend and a colleague isexperiencing and learning about
your culture and the way thatpeople connect with one another,

(04:42):
the way that people connect withthemselves and with the land.
And so, from your perspective, Iwould love to hear more about
how Zimbabwean culture thinksabout thriving and about
well-being.
And how do you promote andsupport that?

SPEAKER_03 (04:57):
Yeah, so that's a really interesting question.
I mean, obviously, I can onlyspeak from my personal
experience.
Um, but growing up in Zimbabwe,I think for anybody who hasn't
visited Zimbabwe, it's reallyimportant to note that, and I
may be a little biased, socorrect me if I'm wrong, but
Zimbabweans are very warm,friendly, empathetic people.
Um, when they ask you how you'redoing, it's because they

(05:19):
genuinely want to know.
They're not just doing it to bepolite.
Um, but I think that the mentalhealth space is something that's
very interesting within thecountry because I don't think
that it's very widely spokenabout.
I think that people can see thatyou're struggling with something
and they will ask you what'swhat's going on, but words like
anxiety, burnout, depression,anything like that is not very

(05:40):
openly talked about.
It's sort of um I think thatpeople try to put on a mask and
be okay because they don't wantto burden people with their
problems.
And I don't think that there'sbeen a lot of space where people
can come out and chat about thatopenly.
Yeah.
So yeah, I think that it issomething that is more on the
rise.
I think that as it is on therise globally, I think that a

(06:02):
lot more conversations areopening worldwide.
I think it is slowly coming inand slowly coming into schools
and different professionalsettings, but it's still not
something that is openlydiscussed or um people don't
take time out of their everydaylives to sort of address those
issues and address, you know,their struggles, which is really

(06:24):
sad.
Yeah.
But having grown up um in aspace where it's something that
isn't very, very widely spokenabout, um, I don't think that
there's a lot of support forpeople out there.
So we can try our best tosupport one another.
And I've been really lucky in myfamily and with my friends and
in my own community that theyare very open and welcoming.

(06:45):
And so you can go to them withthese issues, or if you're
struggling with something, butthere isn't a lot of
professional help available.
So of course we can support eachother as best we can, but there
are times where we really need,you know, the support of
somebody within the industry whocan give you the tools to
navigate these issues that youmight encounter in your life, or

(07:06):
these struggles that you mightencounter in your life.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (07:09):
Yeah.
So it sounds like the strugglesare still there, right?
The challenges are still there.
As humans, we are inevitablygoing to, I don't know, face
adversity.

SPEAKER_03 (07:21):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (07:22):
And I can relate, right?
Like I'm sure our listeners canrelate.
The veterinary industry canrelate when you say that
sometimes it's not somethingthat is talked about very often.
Yeah.
And sometimes it's not somethingthat comes to the forefront and
that the tools and the skillsare um not as robust as they
could be.
Do I have that right?

SPEAKER_03 (07:41):
Yes, yes, 100%.
And I think there's also, youknow, a little bit of fear.
And I'm not saying, like, hey, Ineed help.
Hey, I'm struggling.
I I need support.
I need, you know, a lot of um,and this is also African culture
coming into it because we'retaught to be very strong.
And you put on a happy face andyou move on, and you know, no
issues too big.
But the reality is that we allhave times in our lives where we

(08:04):
struggle and we feel overwhelmedand we need support.
And it's okay to be like, hey,this is how I'm feeling.
Like, what can I, what can I doabout it?
Like, how can we support eachother?

SPEAKER_08 (08:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's beautiful, right?
That recognition of we do needsupport and thinking more about
how you can support one another.
Yes, yes.
I'm so glad that you have yourcommunity and that your
community has you.
And I'm so glad that yourcommunity has your voice.

SPEAKER_03 (08:30):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (08:31):
Because I really think you speaking out about it
starts that conversation.
Yeah.
So just scream, scream louderbecause we're all humans and we
all, we all need help.
Right?
We do.

SPEAKER_03 (08:42):
Okay, we do.
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (08:43):
That's some really fascinating insight.
And I can tell that it's a bitpersonal.

SPEAKER_03 (08:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (08:48):
So thank you for sharing that.
That really means a lot.

SPEAKER_03 (08:50):
Thank you for letting me share it.

SPEAKER_08 (08:52):
Yeah, absolutely.
So thinking more about you,right?
You personally considering thegood work that you do with
Worldwide Vets and for theThrive Wellbeing event, I would
love to hear maybe kind of alittle bit about what drew you
to this work.
What fills your cup?
What promotes your purpose whenit comes to the work that you're

(09:13):
doing?

SPEAKER_03 (09:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So um I think I've been veryblessed having grown up in
Zimbabwe.
I mean, Annie can attest to theview that we're currently
looking at is sort of like myfamily's backyard.
Um I think that I was alsoreally privileged to grow up in
a family that appreciates theoutdoors, appreciates nature.
So every, every sort of chancethat we got, we would be out in

(09:36):
the bush, we would be out in thenational park, we'd be out
fishing.
Um, so I've sort of grown upwith this love for wildlife
instilled in me, likegenerationally, which is really,
really just a blessing.
Because I think that a lot ofpeople take it for granted,
especially when you live hereand it's on your, it's on your
doorstep.
You don't take take time to sitback and appreciate and be like,
wow, this is like, this is mylife.

(09:58):
Um but yeah, so I think thatthat sort of instilled my um my
love of wildlife and my love ofthe outdoors.
Um, I wasn't actually gonna gointo this industry at all, but I
think that life has a way ofsort of diverting you onto the
right path.
So my background professionallyis actually in design and
illustration.
I graduated during COVID.

(10:20):
I was gonna say unfortunately,but I actually think it's quite
fortunate.
There you go.
See the strengths of that.
And I had the opportunity towork at a private game reserve,
and that is sort of where mylove for conservation, my love
for communities, because we hadwork with neighboring
communities, it sort of firedthat up in my heart and fired
that up in my belly.
And I came to realize that a lotof the communities in these

(10:43):
areas and within this countryactually don't have um access,
first of all, to go and seethese wildlife areas.
They they don't they lackeducation about it.
I mean, they they live inZimbabwe and some of them can't
tell you what a lion looks like,or they can't name the different
animals, or um, yeah, they justhaven't been given any

(11:03):
opportunity to explore the worldaround them.
And as I was working in thisspace, I also started learning
more about conservation andconservation efforts.
So that's where it all sort ofsort of stirred up.
At the time, the place that Iwas working for actually hosted
some of Worldwide Vet'svolunteers.
And once I decided that it wastime to make a change, time to

(11:24):
branch out, I reached out to mywonderful boss, Gemma Campling,
who I'm gonna give a littleshout-out to.
An absolute inspiration, and sheis wonderful to work for.
And I'm not just saying thatbecause I'm employed by her, and
you can attest to that.
Yeah, she can vouch for her.

SPEAKER_08 (11:39):
Gemma is an amazing human.

SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
Um, yeah, so I reached out to Gemma just to let
her know that I'm looking for achange.
Um, it was lovely working withher, and she was like, Oh, are
you still looking for something?
And so I got involved withWorldwide Vets, and I am so glad
that I did because before it waskind of this fueling of my love
for wildlife.

(12:02):
But joining Worldwide Vets hasreally given a purpose because
everything that we do feeds backinto conservation, animal
welfare, education, communityengagement, um, and it's been
incredibly rewarding.
And I think that having workedfor them, I've only grown my
passion for wildlife, foranimals, and for people, because

(12:24):
I'm a huge people person.
If any of you have been on myvolunteer programs or at Thrive,
you will know that I do not stoptalking because I just love
getting to know you.
I love learning your ownexperience, I love sharing my
own experience and culture.
So yeah, yeah, that's how I gotinto it.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (12:40):
I love how chatty you are.
Because as many of our listenersknow, I'm equally as chatty.
So you can imagine how much funwe have when we get together on
these things.
And we just giggle and laugh andtalk the whole time, and it is
spectacular.
So, given your experience andthe things that really drive you
and fill your cup, it makes allthe sense in the world to me

(13:01):
that you shine in your role withWorldwide Vets.

SPEAKER_03 (13:04):
Thank you.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (13:04):
And I'm familiar with the amazing work that you
and Gemma and the Worldwide Vetsteam do every day.
But I would love for you toshare a little bit more about
what that looks like forWorldwide Vets as an entire
organization.

SPEAKER_03 (13:17):
Yeah, I'd love to.
So basically, Worldwide Vets isa nonprofit.
We're registered in the UK as anonprofit, and we have charity
status in the US.
And we have a pretty simplegoal.
So our goal is to sustainablysupport animal well-being and to
provide veterinary care as wellas veterinary education
globally.
So we work in over 10 countriesacross five continents.

(13:40):
And the way that we try to dothis is we provide veterinary
medical support in areas thatare in need.
We source and distributemedications globally to areas in
need.
And then we also provideveterinary medical care as well
as offering our volunteeringprograms, and these are held in
a mixture of different settings.

(14:01):
So we support variousconservation efforts, various
vet clinics, sanctuaries,various causes if there's been
any natural disasters.
So it is quite widespread, butthose are the main four areas
that we try to focus in.
So the animal welfare,veterinary medicine, veterinary
education, and then volunteeringand support network.

(14:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (14:22):
Those are four pillars that are so impactful.
And four pillars of things thatwe could absolutely spend the
whole rest of the episode on it.
Yeah.
And we have some other coolthings to talk about.
So I'm going to encourage youall to check out the show notes
because I will absolutely linkover to Worldwide Vets where you
can learn more about theirprojects and some of the
different causes that they'reinvolved with and all four of

(14:44):
those pillars.
But I gotta say, I'm reallypretty excited that you're here
with me for this particularconversation because this week
has been absolutely remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 (14:54):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (14:55):
And for those of you that don't know, Danny is the
project coordinator and host fortheir Thrive event.
And as the person that makes itall happen, Danny, would you be
so kind as to tell us a littlebit more about this particular
amazing experience?

SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
Yeah, so Thrive.
Thrive is something that I amvery proud to be a part of.
I feel very privileged thatGemma brought me in because it
is her, it's her brainchild.
But I'm, if anybody knows me,I'm the girl who likes to
organize things and get thingsdone.
The Thrive Mental Health andProfessional Development Course
came about because we sort ofrealized that there was a real

(15:34):
lack of support for veterinaryprofessionals within the mental
health space.
Um, data is showing that mentalhealth struggles are on the rise
within the profession.
And as we started to researchjust support materials,
retreats, just opportunities toworkshop and gain skills and

(15:55):
tools.
I don't want to say a curebecause there's not going to be
a cure.
But a way to equip theseprofessionals to better handle
these situations is is reallynot there.
There's not much of an offering.
Of course, there are one or two,but the the offering is so small
that we've we saw it as anopportunity to create something

(16:15):
spectacular, which I I thinkthat we're doing, and I think
that we are improving each andevery year as we learn more
about our delegates, as we learnmore from our lecturers.
So that's kind of where Thrivewas born from.
The choice to do it in alocation like this, I mean, I
shouldn't have to explain whywe're doing it right where

(16:37):
lectures can be interrupted byelephants, or you can cruise
down the Zambezi River lookingat hippos.
But for anybody who hasn'tvisited Africa, I think that
it's a very special place whereyou can sort of lose yourself
and you can put things intoperspective.
Um, I think that with the rushof busy city life, busy work
life, the stresses of home, thestresses of family and friends

(17:01):
and other colleagues around youcan really sort of muddle things
up when you're trying to workthrough your struggles.
And correct me if I'm wrong,this is my own perspective.
But I think that sort of takingthe time out to remove yourself
from that sort of situation,plunk yourself in the middle of
the bush where you don't getcell service.

(17:22):
Yep.
Your wake-up call every morningis baboons having a domestic
outside your tent.
Every morning, 5:30.

SPEAKER_05 (17:29):
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_03 (17:30):
Going to sleep with the sound of rustling leaves and
nothing else.
There's no noise from traffic.
You might hear some helicoptersoverhead in Victoria Falls, but
that's okay.
Um, I think that that's reallyimportant and it's really
grounding because it forces youto take a step back and look at
the big picture.
So we chose the location ofVictoria Falls.
Um, we are looking at playingaround with a few other

(17:52):
locations.
That being said, stay tuned.
Um, but yeah, we've we saw it asan opportunity to really bring
in support for those within theveterinary community.
We have Andy as our lecturer,and if I may take this
opportunity to say that she'sbeen absolutely phenomenal.
Um, so Andy hosts a half of theweek, and then we have an

(18:13):
Enneogram specialist namedChristine.
So I think that the twocomponents go together really
well, and I think that overallfor a week-long course, we've
created something that's reallyholistic and really unique in
what it offers.

SPEAKER_08 (18:26):
Yeah.
You said something earlier thatstood out to me, right?
You were saying that you werehoping to create a spectacular
experience where delegates thatcome halfway around the world
can really disconnect and bequiet for a minute, which is
something that always stands outto me.
I am thrilled to be a part ofthis amazing event.

(18:50):
I am beyond honored to have beenwelcomed into this family and to
be a part of this because thatis exactly what happens.
It is quiet.
You hear the leaves rustling,you look up, and there's
elephants right there in thebackground of lectures.
And there's no, this is silly,but there's no Wi-Fi.

(19:11):
Yeah.
And it's insane how effectivethat is and how peaceful and how
quiet that is.
The other thing that alwaysstands out to me about Thrive is
the fact that it is a week-longcourse.
It's so much more than just alecture at a hotel in a big city
that, you know, Mickey Mousealso lives in.

(19:31):
It is an experience all initself, and you're able to do it
as one big experience.
So you come for that week whereyou're able to really connect
with the people that you're herewith, the other delegates, the
other professionals.
You're able to really processthe information in a way that's
helpful and effective.
You can process that in your ownway, whether that's, I don't

(19:52):
know, pondering it over coffeeon the deck.
Maybe you're out on a game driveand you happen to, you know,
come across a beautiful acaciatree or a whole herd of giraffes
with their babies that are thecutest things in the world.
And you just realize how all ofthat lines up with some of the
things and the conversationsthat you had earlier in
sessions.
And that is an experience that Ihave yet to find anywhere else.

(20:16):
Yeah.
And those always stand out to meas far as how impactful and how
powerful this particularexperience is, especially
because it's surrounded bywell-being, well, professional
development, resilience,communication type of content
and skills.
So that's a that's a big one.

(20:37):
Yeah.
That's a big one.

SPEAKER_03 (20:38):
And I I think, sorry to interrupt you.

SPEAKER_08 (20:40):
No, please interrupt away.

SPEAKER_03 (20:42):
But I think taking the full week out is also
something that's reallyincredibly um intentional.
It's an intentional breakawayfrom your everyday life.
It's not just going and sittingin, and I'm sorry if this
offends anybody, but this isquote unquote from the
delegates.
You're not going to sit in astinky lecture room.
You're gonna be floating downthe Zambezi and you're gonna

(21:02):
have that time to connect withyour peers and not just listen
to somebody speak at you.
Yeah.
We're gonna workshop it and talkthrough these things that we're
we're all experiencing.
Um, but taking that intentionalweek away, I think, is really
what differentiates it fromgoing to an afternoon seminar.
It's an investment of your time,it's an investment of your your

(21:23):
finances, obviously.
And it's an it's an investmentin yourself.
There it is.
Yep.

SPEAKER_08 (21:27):
There it is.
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree with you more,Danny.
Danny, I love hearing the storyof Thrive and the intent and the
power and the heart that wentinto creating that.
And the fact that all of thosethings shine so beautifully in
the execution.
I've been privileged enough tobe a part of this event for

(21:49):
three years now.

SPEAKER_03 (21:50):
Three years.
We loved having you every singleyear.
Well, you're sweet.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 (21:54):
It's a highlight of my year.
And every year is meaningful andpowerful and impactful.
And every year it stands out tome how foundational an
experience like this could be.
So when I found this particularresearch article, I got really,
really excited.

(22:15):
Because a lot of what thisresearch finds is confirmed in
the experiences and theintentionality behind Thrive.
And so that's actually whatwe're going to talk about.
So, Danny, if you're ready,let's go ahead and dig into the
science for a minute.
Because this episode iscompletely inspired by a really

(22:36):
interesting piece of researchthat looks at emotional
intelligence in early careerveterinarians.
Now, emotional intelligence isone of those phrases that people
hear a lot, but it's reallyworth slowing down and defining
what we actually mean.
At its core, emotionalintelligence refers to our
ability to recognize,understand, and manage emotions,

(22:59):
both our emotions and theemotions of other people.
It includes things likeemotional awareness,
self-regulation, empathy, socialconnection, and the ability to
navigate relationshipseffectively.
And in veterinary medicine, weknow those skills show up
everywhere.
They show up when we'resupporting a grieving client,

(23:20):
navigating tension within ateam, communicating about a
difficult medical decision, orsimply managing the emotional
weight that comes with caringdeeply about animals and the
people who love them.
So, emotional intelligence, it'snot just a nice skill to have or
even a good skill for leaders.

(23:41):
It's actually a coreprofessional skill in veterinary
medicine.
And the paper that we're talkingabout today is focused on
emotional intelligence.
And it's titled Improved MentalHealth, Social Support, and Time
Outdoors are associated with ahigher emotional intelligence in
early career veterinarians, alongitudinal study.

(24:03):
The authors of this paper areCatherine R.
Young and her colleagues.
And we will absolutely includethe full citation and a link to
the paper, as usual, in the shownotes.
Now, Catherine Young and herclan of researchers, they had a
question.
They got really interestedbecause they really wanted to
know how does emotionalintelligence develop during

(24:24):
early years of veterinarypractice?
Because there's a pretty commonassumption that in many
professions, emotionalintelligence, it just sort of
naturally improves withexperience.
I mean, it kind of makes sense,right?
You see more cases, you dealwith more people, therefore you
get better at navigatingemotional situations.
But nobody's really looked thatclosely at whether that

(24:46):
assumption is actually true forveterinarians.
So to explore this question, theteam of researchers conducted
what is called a longitudinalstudy, which means they followed
the same group of people overtime.
They recruited veterinariatesand measured their emotional
intelligence using a validatedassessment tool.

(25:08):
The tool evaluates severaldifferent components of
emotional intelligence,including well-being,
self-control, emotionalawareness, and sociability.
Participants completed theemotional intelligence
assessment multiple times duringtheir first two years of
practice, which allowed theresearchers to see whether

(25:29):
emotional intelligence changedover time.
The researchers also gatheredinformation about other factors
that might influence emotionalintelligence, including mental
health, social support, andlifestyle factors like how much
time they spent outside.
Now, their first major findingis where things get really

(25:50):
interesting.
Because these researchers theyfound that early career
veterinarians, they actuallyscored slightly lower than the
general population in certainareas of emotional intelligence.
I know that was fascinating,right?

SPEAKER_03 (26:05):
Very fascinating.

SPEAKER_08 (26:06):
And the biggest difference appeared in a
dimension that they calledsociability.
Now, sociability in this contextis not about being extroverted
or introverted.
It refers to things likenavigating social interactions,
influencing emotional tone inconversations, and managing
relationship dynamics, which, ifyou think about it, are some of

(26:29):
the most complex parts ofveterinary practice.
The human components, right?
So that finding alone isinteresting because it suggests
that early career veterinariansmay enter practice with strong
clinical training, but havefewer structured opportunities
to develop the relational andemotional skills that are

(26:50):
essential in this profession.
Okay, the second finding waspretty great.
And it actually surprised theresearchers themselves because
they expected the emotionalintelligence to increase during
the first two years of practice.
But that's not what they found.
They actually found that theemotional intelligence scores

(27:11):
did not significantly improveover time.
So, in other words, simplyworking in veterinary medicine,
gaining experience, seeingcases, interacting with clients,
it does not automaticallystrengthen emotional
intelligence.
Which suggests that emotionalintelligence requires
intentional development, notjust exposure to the

(27:32):
professional experience andenvironment.
Now that was pretty interesting,but it actually got even more
fascinating because the mostimportant part of the study came
when researchers looked at whatfactors were associated with
higher emotional intelligencescores.

Three things stood out to them: veterinarians who reported, (27:47):
undefined
better mental health, strongersocial support, and more time
spent outdoors.
Right?
How relevant.
I know.
All three of those things tendedto have higher emotional
intelligence scores.
And when you step back and youthink about it, it actually kind

(28:10):
of makes a ton of sense.
Emotional intelligence requiresa certain amount of mental
capacity.
If somebody is exhausted,isolated, emotionally depleted,
it becomes much harder to pause,to reflect, and regulate your
emotions.
But when people have supportiverelationships, time to restore

(28:30):
their mental health andopportunities to spend time in
nature, those emotionalcapacities become much easier to
access.
So, Danny, in this moment, whenI read this paper, I kind of
paused for a second becausethose three ingredients mental
health, social support, and timeoutdoors, sounds an awful lot

(28:54):
like what we have been able toexperience at Thrive here this
week.

SPEAKER_03 (28:57):
I have to say, the familiarity is ringing in my
ears.

SPEAKER_08 (29:00):
Right, right.
So when you hear that, you hearthat you know we're making those
intentional efforts, we'resetting aside that time.
How does it line up with whatyou'd hoped Thrive would create
for the delegates and the peoplethat are a part of it?

SPEAKER_03 (29:13):
Yeah, I think it's really validating because um
obviously we've receivedfeedback from our delegates, and
that goes along with what thisresearch is saying.
Um I think that being isolatedin their in their different
clinics um and their differentsituations, I think that a lot
of the delegates who come outare kind of doing it for the CE,

(29:37):
but they don't always realizethat they're struggling with
something until they're on theground.
Um and that's always reallyinteresting.
So I think that taking thatintentional time out and with
the setting, you let your guarddown, right?
When you're in a setting whereyou're comfortable, you're being
waited on hand and foot by thewonderful staff, being brought

(29:58):
delicious lattes by MC.
Um, and just cruising throughthe bush, you kind of start
start to relax and you let yourguard down and you aren't in
this a lot of them aredescribing as a rat race.
They're just trying to get byday day to day.
And then when they step back andthey start talking about these

(30:19):
struggles, and other peoplestart talking about what they're
struggling with, a lot of themare like, oh actually, me too.
But I've been covering it up.
So I think that um yeah, I thinkthat it's validating first of
all to get feedback like thatfrom the delegates because I

(30:40):
love veterinarians, but a lot ofthem will come saying, I wasn't
sure if this was gonna be anygood.
I don't know if I believe incynical veterinarians?
No, never I don't know if Ibelieve in you know all this
mushy mushy la-di-da stuff, andthen coming back at the end of

(31:01):
the week and going, that wasactually really interesting, and
I really enjoyed that.
But getting them out of theirnormal environment, I think, is
a key ingredient to that.
So I think it's reallyvalidating, and the fact that
there's research now backingthis is just so interesting to
me because yeah, yeah, Idefinitely did a happy dance.

SPEAKER_08 (31:21):
I have a um a colleague and uh she actually
sent me this study.
Oh wow, because it's in JAVMA,like it is it is a veterinary
study, which is so exciting.
Um, shout out to Andy'scolleague, right?
No kidding, but yeah, that'sexactly where I'm going.
Because I was so excited whenMartha sent this along and I
read it and I just like did ahappy dance because I thought,

(31:43):
first of all, this is an amazingstudy.
Second of all, this screamsThrive.
Yeah.
And it's just every everythingthat they noticed that
contributed to increasedemotional intelligence scores,
you can find it Thrive.
Yeah.
And something else that you saidthat really stood out to me was
kind of that moment throughoutthe week where we seem to
realize that we're allstruggling with something.

(32:07):
Yeah, it may not be the exactsame thing, but it's something.
And that ability to sort ofbreathe and let your guard down
and to take advantage of thatsocial support and to get
vulnerable, which is reallyscary.
It's a big thing, right?
But so powerful.

SPEAKER_03 (32:23):
100%.

SPEAKER_08 (32:24):
And so that ability to sort of step into that space
has been something that's beenreally kind of powerful for you
to to witness.

SPEAKER_03 (32:32):
Oh yeah, 100%.
And I think, you know, observingveterinary professionals and
working in the industry that Ido, I think that it is such a
um, I'm trying to think of theword.
I think that because you're sohighly qualified, you're held to
a certain standard.
You're held you're put up on apedestal.

(32:52):
And I feel like a lot of peopleare firstly too scared to admit
that they're struggling, andsecondly, maybe feel a little
bit alone.
Like, why am I the only one likeso-and-so is doing so well.
We've had colleagues come outtogether and some of them will
be like, I would have never saidthat you were struggling with
that.
But how beautiful to know thatyou're not alone, and there is

(33:13):
an entire community.
So chances are if you're feelingit, someone else is feeling it
too.
You can't be the only onefeeling it.
There's an entire community, andif we can work at just opening
those conversations, I feel likethat is the first step.
And that first step is all weneed, right?
We we have a saying here inAfrica: how do you eat an

(33:33):
elephant?
One bite at a time.
And that's how we're gonna dothis.
There we go.
I love that I promote eatingelephants, just side note.

SPEAKER_08 (33:41):
Side note, update.
What is that?
Disclaimer.
Yeah, disclaimer.
Disclaimer.
There it is.
Disclaimer.
Yep.
Yeah.
But no, I think you're right,you know, just that permission.
Yeah.
That permission to be human,that permission to admit that
you're struggling a little bit,right?
Or that permission to admit thatyou want to talk about it.

(34:02):
Because I I I agree.
I mean, it's very hard, I think,as humans and as veterinary
professionals to get vulnerable.
Yes.
And this is a wonderfully safespace to do that in, and a very
powerful moment when it doeshappen.
Because I I would agree with youthat that's always a moment
during the week that stands outto me as well when you can see

(34:23):
everybody breathe, take a bigdeep breath, let their guard
down, and really start to havesome of those deep, meaningful
conversations.

SPEAKER_03 (34:31):
Yeah.
And it needs time, which is whya week is so intentional.
It it can't be a two-day thingand you go back home with your
soul cracked open.
Yeah, no.
No.
It takes some time.
There's a much harder shellabout the soul.

SPEAKER_08 (34:44):
It takes much longer than two days.
Yeah.
Come on.
Yeah.
And that's actually what makesthis episode really fun.
Because instead of Danny and Icontinuing to dive into this
research, we actually took sometime to talk to the people who
are living this experience rightnow.
People who have spent the lastweek outside in the bush in

(35:07):
Africa, connecting with oneanother and boosting the skills
required to navigate theemotion, the challenge, and the
reward of our professionsuccessfully.
So, next, we're gonna hear fromsome of the Thrive delegates
themselves and hear about howtheir experience over this week
connects with what this researchis telling us.

SPEAKER_05 (35:32):
Hello, I'm Sarah.
I'm a veterinarian from Canada.
Um, and I currently work in aleadership position as well.
Awesome.

SPEAKER_08 (35:39):
Sarah, I'm so glad that you were here with us this
week.
We've had an absolute blastdoing all of the amazing things
here at Thrive.
And I'd love to ask you a couplequestions about this research
because it's really prettyfascinating how they found
social support being such animportant component to emotional
intelligence.
And I mean, we had a prettygreat group here, so I feel like

(36:02):
you could speak to the socialsupport component and how that
might have contributed to youremotional intelligence.

SPEAKER_05 (36:10):
Yeah, I guess I I think a a lot of times in like
vetmed, especially when thingsget really hard or they get
really challenging, um, you canfeel quite isolated and there's
a lot of you've a lot ofself-doubt, especially when
you're starting out and you youjust don't really know how to
get your footing.
And when you start to meetpeople, especially here, one of

(36:32):
the coolest things was everybodyhad such a different background
and different experiences, andthen also different um points in
their career, it allows you toconnect with people who you
maybe wouldn't have otherwiseconnected with and kind of
realize that we're all in thiswe all feel the same way in so
many different aspects.
Um and it's different sources ofsupport that you probably

(36:54):
wouldn't have had otherwise andkind of allows you to be a bit
more vulnerable.
Yeah, I would say.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (37:00):
So that space to connect with other people,
right?
Has validated your experience abit, and it's given you that
safety to feel vulnerable.
That's really powerful.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Thanks for sharing that.
You're welcome, yeah.
The other thing that's reallyneat about this research is um
the focus on the well-beingskills, right?
Because in vetmed, we get allthe technical skills, we get all

(37:23):
the medical skills.
We don't always focus on thewell-being skills.
But here we've had an entireweek to focus on resilience and
communication, conflictmanagement, right?
Things that we're gonna have todo every day that we don't
always focus on.
So, what does it meant for youto be able to take that time and
focus on those skills?

SPEAKER_05 (37:42):
It's been important.
Um, like for a lot of differentreasons, like especially now,
like this is my second timebeing in an official leadership
position.
Um, and you do not get that kindof training.
And I will say, like, this isnow my second time being a
medical director, and Idefinitely fumbled through it
the first time and made a lot ofmistakes, and there's a lot of

(38:03):
things I've learned on this tripthat I really wish I had known
four or five years ago or more.
Um, but I think it's it wasreally important to know a
little bit more about myself,understanding how other people
think and how other people work,because everyone just assumes
everybody thinks and works thesame way, um, and we're all
incredibly different, even theway we process our emotions, our

(38:24):
feelings, our assumptions aboutthe world.
Um, and then it just gives us alittle bit more, I guess, tools
in order to handle differentsides of the clinic that are
gonna come up, whether it'sdealing with your clients that
are angry, dealing withinterpersonal issues, dealing
with a hard day at work, beingable to just navigate those

(38:45):
situations a lot easier, ormaybe not gonna say easier, but
just having the tools to getthrough it in a more structured
way versus just fumblingthrough.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (38:57):
I think what I'm hearing you say, Sarah, is that
you realize that relationshipsare really important.
Yeah.
And this week has given you someskills and some perspective to
go back into the world andnurture and connect with those
people in your life in a waythat's gonna be helpful.
Maybe not awesome and positiveall the time, but like

(39:18):
productive, I think is the wordI'm using.

SPEAKER_05 (39:20):
I already have like a mental list of all the things
I'm gonna like implement at myclinic, and then also a few
things I'm gonna like take intolike my personal life as well,
because there's obviously a lotof overlap.
Yes, the overlap.
The good old overlap.
That's great.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_08 (39:34):
Thanks for sharing that.

unknown (39:36):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (39:36):
Okay, and here we are with another Thrive
Delegate.
This one is a credentialedtechnician, so of course there
is a bond already.
But do you want to go ahead andintroduce yourself, Megan?

SPEAKER_06 (39:46):
So my name's Megan Sutherland.
I have been practicing for thelast six years.
I'm a registered veterinarytechnician.
Currently I'm practicing in ageneral practice in it's called
April Vets Orangeville inOrangeville, Ontario.
Yeah.
In Canada.
So yeah, it's been it's beengreat as any practice, but it's
been exciting.
Oh, that is exciting.

SPEAKER_08 (40:05):
Well, thanks for coming on and sharing some of
your thoughts.
I know we've had a reallyexciting week here at Thrive.
Yeah, that's awesome.
I would love to hear some ofyour thoughts about some of this
research and how it kind oflines up with some of the things
that we've been doing here thisweek at Thrive.
Because you'll recall that thisstudy, it suggests that
emotional intelligence, itdoesn't automatically develop
just by going out and practicingveterinary medicine.

(40:29):
It needs to be focused on and itneeds to be developed.
And here, this week at Thrive,we've had the opportunity to do
that.
And I'd be curious, do you thinkthat experiences like this,
deliberately stepping away fromtraditional practice, are
important when it comes todeveloping emotional
intelligence skills?

SPEAKER_06 (40:48):
I think I think it's so so so important because when
we get into practice, so if youhave a new doctor, they've come
from all the schooling and thenthey go straight into practice
and they're already exhausted.
They don't have time to put inthat extra effort to learn these

(41:09):
skills or work on them, orreally even realize they're
maybe in a deficit with them.
And like that just kind ofcreates more conflict, creates
these issues with the peoplethey work with, and then it just
kind of snowballs from there.
Yeah.
So taking the time todeliberately take yourself out
of practice and like have amoment to relax, to be

(41:30):
surrounded by like theselike-minded individuals is so
wonderful.
It's very like peaceful torealize that everywhere has the
same problems.
The grass is not always greener.
Yeah.
Um and to realize that thesegroup of people are just they've
been so lovely, and they'regreat to point out things to

(41:53):
you, to be like, you're sowonderful at that.
Like you do that really, reallywell.
And like they'll listen to whereyou feel like you're in a
deficit or where you're having aproblem.
And it just feels so supportiveand constructive, and like never
it never have I felt judged foranything I've had to say, which
is so important.
Absolutely.
Because sometimes when you getinto a clinic and you just feel

(42:15):
like worn down, everything'sagainst you, you don't know
where to turn to just have aconversation with somebody who
feels safe.
Yeah, and that's that's hard.
So being able to have thisopportunity's been great for
that.

SPEAKER_08 (42:27):
Well, I think what I'm hearing is that this has
been a safe space for you, thatyou felt that social support
that the research indicates ispretty darn valuable, and you
felt that safe space where youcan share some of your struggles
and get support with them andhave all of your strengths
pointed out as well.
Would I have that right?

SPEAKER_06 (42:45):
Yeah, no, and it's it's been great.
And I you can see howeverybody's opened up throughout
the week.
And we were joking, we're like,when they do thrive too, we all
need to come back as one biggroup together.
Yeah, yeah.
So reunite, reunite.

SPEAKER_08 (42:59):
Yep, absolutely.
Uh another question for you,because we as veterinary
professionals, right, go throughschool in vet school or tech
school, and we learn all theskills, all the medical,
technical skills that come withbeing a veterinary professional.
And sometimes the resilienceskills, the communication
skills, the leadership skillsare not quite as highly focused

(43:22):
on.

SPEAKER_06 (43:23):
No.

SPEAKER_08 (43:23):
And so I'd be curious to hear what value you
see in stepping back from thattraditional sort of conference
environment and stepping into aspace like this that allows you
to focus on some of thosewell-being skills that can
potentially really improve youremotional intelligence.

SPEAKER_06 (43:41):
Yeah, it's kind of like you had said the other day
where when you go to aconference, it's great.
You sit there, you listen,you're like, wow, this is great.
You have absolutely no time toimplement any of those things
that are said.
Sure.
So you're just kind of like,this is great.
And then you go home and you'reyou just forget it, and you're
like, Well, what am I supposedto how am I?
Even supposed to look at doingany of this.

(44:02):
So being able to have theopportunity where everybody's
pointing out, like, oh, you saidbut you said always.
And just having that, yeah, andalso like the kind of like
everybody gives you like thegentle moment to like rethink if
you're actively trying torephrase something so it kind of
fits a more positive mindset.

(44:24):
Like people are very patient tolike give you that space to
think through it because it'snot an easy thing to do when all
of us are like actively wantingclearly we want to change, we
want to be better individuals,both professionally um in our
personal lives.
So being able to like you, likeyou pointed out, the safe space
to do those things is is great.

(44:47):
And uh yeah, not not anexperience you can get in a
gross conference room.

SPEAKER_08 (44:52):
Yep.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
This is definitely the polaropposite of a conference lecture
hall.
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Oh, I'm so glad it was thatspace for you.
Yeah.
Okay, I am here with anotherfantastic Thrive delegate.
Chris, I would love for you tointroduce yourself.

SPEAKER_02 (45:08):
Hello, I'm Chris Johnson.
I'm an ER veterinarian fromBellingham, Washington.
Um, I've been in practice forabout 28 years.
Woo-hoo! Small animals.

SPEAKER_08 (45:21):
Awesome, awesome.
Thank you for the work that youdo.

SPEAKER_02 (45:24):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 (45:24):
Yeah, and thanks for coming here on Thrive.
It's been wonderful getting toknow you.

SPEAKER_02 (45:27):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 (45:28):
Throughout the week, we've had a lot of fun together,
yes?
Yes, yeah, I know.
That's one of the reasons whythis research stood out to me,
right?
Because it was had such a such afocus on being outside and how
that is associated with creatingstronger emotional intelligence.
And we have spent some timeoutside, right?
Between game drives, VictoriaFalls visits, town visits, even

(45:51):
walking back and forth to ourtents is all outside.

SPEAKER_02 (45:54):
I walk into the same spider web every single day.

SPEAKER_08 (45:57):
She's a clever girl, huh?
So I'm curious, when you hearthis research and you hear the
tie that they found betweencreating emotional intelligence
and spending time outside, whatstands out to you about that?

SPEAKER_02 (46:11):
What it made me think about is how when I'm
feeling physically stressed orstrain in my muscles of the neck
and my back and my shoulders,that I'll go outside and take a
walk.
And it's the best way I canalleviate that pain.
And with veterinary work, we doa lot of things that cause neck

(46:34):
and back pain, whether it'shunching over a surgery,
hunching over a dentalextraction for hours, or now at
our desks with uh on thecomputer.
And if I'm in physical pain, I'mhaving trouble concentrating on
what I need to do for my clientsand my patients.

(46:54):
So if I am outside and Iactually feel that stress and
pain go away from a walk or youknow, viewing nature, you know,
looking up and looking aroundand like moving my neck back and
forth, doing yoga on the on thefront patio as I did while I was
here.
Um it's gonna allow me to exexperience or see other people's

(47:20):
pain easier, um, whether that'semotional or stress or actual
physical pain, you know, canthey take care of their pet
because they're in they're inpain.
Yeah.
And so I'm more alert to otherpeople's discomfort because I no
longer have it to focus on inmyself.

SPEAKER_08 (47:38):
So I I think what I'm hearing you say is something
really pretty powerful that ifyou're able to give yourself
space to work through some ofyour pain in the outdoors, that
it's uh easier and moreapproachable and more
comfortable for you to be ableto focus on somebody else's

(48:00):
pain.
And that you have that space,you can create that space for
somebody else because you'vecreated that space for yourself.
Yes, and often that space foryou is outside.
Always, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (48:11):
I mean, some people might do yoga indoors or indoor
things, but for me it's alwaysoutside.

SPEAKER_08 (48:17):
Well, and you picked a heck of an outside.
This has been an incredibleplace to be outside.
Yeah, that's wonderful.
I love that insight.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I am joined by one of our manywonderful Thrive delegates.
Mike, do you want to go aheadand introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01 (48:34):
Yes, my name is uh Dr.
Mike Ward.
I'm from uh North Carolina.
Uh I'm a 2000 graduate from uhNorth Carolina State University,
and I've had a pleasure to be ata very, very unique uh CE
opportunity.

SPEAKER_08 (48:49):
Oh, that's awesome.
Mike, we're so glad you're here.
I wonder if you could share withsome of our listeners if anyone
out there right now is feeling abit frustrated or overwhelmed,
maybe disconnected with theprofession right now.
What would you want them to knowabout an experience like this?

SPEAKER_01 (49:07):
That this is a CE that uh just is a whole
different experience than youwould ever imagine, as far as
the the classroom is actuallynot a classroom, it's a uh a
beautiful facility that uhwildlife uh are everywhere.
Elephants walked up next to ouruh lecturing area uh just

(49:30):
yesterday, we're right next tothe pool.
Uh being in Africa, which is thefirst time I've been to Africa,
I mean wildlife is everywhere.
Uh and the small uh size of thegroup, uh there's uh 11 of us, I
believe, as far as the uh uhtechnicians and veterinarians,
and then there's some of thembrought their partners, but a

(49:53):
very small group where you getto know everybody.
Makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_08 (49:55):
That's great.
So it sounds like that socialconnection really kind of
resonated with you here that youwere able to find an opportunity
for that.
Do I have that right?

SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
Absolutely, yes.
Um CEs as are a lot like theclassroom, it's just lecture
style, then you you funnel in,get lectured at, funnel out, uh,
and then it's just not much muchtime for interaction except over
maybe a break, but uh wholedifferent experience.

SPEAKER_08 (50:23):
And what did that mean for you?

SPEAKER_01 (50:25):
Uh I again I've been a veterinarian for 25 years, and
when I first got out of school,all continuing education
opportunities were the lecturestyle.
And after I think about 10 yearsinto practice, uh I started to
see the smaller ones gettingmore and more popular.

(50:47):
And now I mean they're justthere's opportunities around
every corner for smaller-sized,outdoor-based.
Uh again, it's not just comehere for CE to get the
veterinary or the practice sidebrushed up on, it's to come get
the mental health brushed up onand uh just to be uh out in this

(51:08):
kind of environment uh and be ona safari.
I mean, you don't get to say,I've been on a safari with many
CE opportunities.

SPEAKER_08 (51:16):
Right, right.
You don't have elephants join inon your lecture opportunities
very often.

SPEAKER_01 (51:20):
Absolutely not.
Yeah, they uh they actuallyinterrupted interrupted the uh
the uh lecturing.
Right.
I shouldn't say the class thatwe were having and the break
them crunching the branches uhjust distracted everybody and we
just had to stop and watch them.
This is fascinating.

SPEAKER_08 (51:36):
Mm-hmm.
The best distraction ever.
Yeah, best distraction ever.

SPEAKER_01 (51:40):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_08 (51:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks so much for sharing that,Mike.
We're here with yet anotheramazing Thrive Delegate.
I've had the pleasure ofspending almost an entire week
with Megan, and I can't wait foryou to meet her.
Megan, can you introduceyourself?

SPEAKER_07 (51:54):
Uh hi, I'm a small animal veterinarian from Salt
Lake City, Utah, who graduatedvet school in 2020 from WSU.

SPEAKER_08 (52:00):
Awesome.
Now, Megan, we've been here,like I said, almost a whole
week, and we've done all sortsof really great things outside.
We've done a number of gamedrives, we've been over to Vic
Falls, we spent time in town,and this research really seems
to indicate that spending timeoutside is one of the many
things that can contribute toour emotional intelligence.

(52:22):
And I'm wondering, afterexperiencing all of this, what
impact does this have on youroutlook, on your life or your
work experience?

SPEAKER_07 (52:30):
Yeah, I'd say being outside is very grounding to me.
Um, like it uh provides me a lotof peace and clarity in my life.
So um coming here andexperiencing not only the
outdoors, but outdoors in Africawhere we're experiencing totally
new environments has reallybrought a greater outlook to
life to me.

(52:51):
Like I feel a lot more ready totake on those like hard clients
at work in those difficultcases.
Um my partner is here with meand we've already had a lot of
like really good conversationjust about like our outlook on
things and what the future lookslike for like our relationship,
especially after talking aboutconflict styles and all of these

(53:11):
things.
But yeah, I think being outsideis very just very grounding and
really makes me feel, I don'tknow, very like hopeful moving
forward.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 (53:20):
Something else that stood out to me in listening to
what you were saying is that itseems that you've been given
some space while you've beenhere, space to kind of process
what the future might look foryou, space to kind of think
about how you want to go back tothe real world and kind of
interact with that and how youwant to show up.
Do I have that right?
Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely.

(53:41):
That's great.
I love that.
I mean, what what better spacecould we offer?
Yeah, I mean, this is the mostbeautiful space in the world.
So I can see how that would behelpful for you.
Yeah, for sure.
Now I'm willing to bet that someof our listeners out there are
feeling a little bit maybedisconnected from the
profession, maybe a little bitfrustrated.
And I would love to know whatwould you like to share with

(54:03):
them about an experience likethis?

SPEAKER_07 (54:06):
Do it.
Just do it.
Um, this came at the perfecttime because in the past two
weeks I've had very difficultmedical cases to manage, and I
was feeling very overwhelmed atwork.
So even just having, like yousaid, that break from reality to
come here and spend time withwonderful people and really
connect with people very deeplyhas been very meaningful.

(54:28):
Um, but yeah, I'd say just doit.
Like take the leap and come.

SPEAKER_08 (54:33):
That's amazing.
Well, I'm glad you took theleap.
Me too.
It's been lovely to spend timewith you.
Me too.
Yeah.
And thanks for sharing yourthoughts.
Of course.
Thanks.
Now, Mike and Megan weren't theonly ones that had something to
share to listeners who might befeeling disconnected or
overwhelmed at the moment.
Here's what some of the otherdelegates wanted to make sure
that you heard about anexperience like this.

SPEAKER_05 (54:55):
It forces you to step back from like your
everyday run, like rat race umlife, and just literally focus
on what is inside and how youfeel, and it's just a lot of
introspection.
And then you're also hanging outin nature, and it just slows
down and it's peaceful and it'sbeautiful, and it gives you like

(55:17):
space to think where real lifeyou don't get that very often.
Yeah.
That space.
So I just say just do it.

unknown (55:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (55:24):
I got a lot more out of this conference than I
thought I would, because I'm nota believer in mental health.
My my mental health is gettingoutside and and hiking.
But actually talking throughproblems with other
veterinarians is a really goodway to do it.
Yeah.
Like seeing a mental healthcounselor outside of this
environment, I don't think wouldbe as effective as talking to
veterinarians.
Sure, sure.

(55:44):
Who are dealing with the exactsame stress as we are all are.

SPEAKER_08 (55:46):
We get it, right?
We get each other.
I love that.
And you found that space hereand that's beautiful.
Yeah, this is a greatconference.
I would recommend it to anyone.

SPEAKER_04 (55:54):
Yay.
And you get to come to Africa.
I think any continuing educationis good for boosting your morale
to get back to work morerejuvenated about being a
veterinarian.
But this is just unique.
I've learned, I've learnedthings that will help me in my
daily practice.
I've learned things that willhelp me communicate more
effectively with my my staff,fellow doctors, clients.

(56:17):
I've learned to appreciateothers' perspectives and try to
see things from the otherperspective instead of just my
understanding of a situation.
So I think this is a very uniqueconference for all of that.
I've never had a CE like this.
Yeah.
And I'd really recommend it foreveryone.
Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_08 (56:32):
I'm so glad you shared.
Thanks for taking the time totalk to me about this stuff.
Awesome.
Thanks, Dana.

SPEAKER_06 (56:37):
If it speaks to you, then just take the leap and take
that opportunity because itcould be very valuable to you.
Yeah.
And really change how you feelabout yourself, how you feel
about others, how you feel aboutthe relationships in your life,
both professional and personal.
It can make a huge differencefor you being the best version

(56:58):
of yourself overall.

SPEAKER_08 (56:59):
Okay, as we wrap up this episode, I just keep coming
back to something really simplethat this research highlights.
Emotional intelligence does notjust magically appear because
somebody becomes a veterinarian.
It grows in environments wherepeople have made space and set
the intention to deliberatelysupport their development.

(57:23):
This study it explored and itfound that emotional
intelligence was associated withthose three things, right?
Better mental health, strongersocial support, and time spent
outside.
And when you listen to thevoices that we've heard in this
episode, it becomes pretty clearhow much of those things
actually matter.

(57:43):
This week it thrives, it's beenfilled with moments that support
exactly those ingredients.
Meaningful conversations betweencolleagues and time to spend
outdoors.
Reconnecting with the naturalworld.
And I find it encouraging thatemotional intelligence is not

(58:04):
something that you either haveor don't have.
It's something that you can growand develop, especially when the
conditions are right.
Now you know who else is rightin a variety of conditions.
Oh my goodness.

(58:30):
They sure do.
And if you think Florida Man wasa special thing, you have not
had Zimbabwe.
And today you are about to meetZimbabwe.
So this week is Zimbabwe.
That is Lady of the Night.
Turned into a donkey overnight.

(58:54):
In Harry, which is one of thelarge cities in Zimbabwe.
Zimbabwe, man.
He hired a professional lady ofthe night during the night
transformed into a donkey.
And now he is, quote, seriouslyin love with an animal.
And when he was in court, hetold them that he also became a

(59:17):
donkey.
And that the two of them are inlove.
I know, it just gets better.
Not only did she turn into adonkey, he loves her and he's
also turned into a donkey.

SPEAKER_03 (59:28):
What if he turned into a donkey?
If he just discovered that he'sbeing a donkey all along.
Ooh.

SPEAKER_08 (59:33):
That matters.
That matters.
I mean, it's all all questions.
Yeah.
Irrelevant questions.
I know.
So if you thought you werespecial there, Florida man, you
have a competitor, and that is aZimbabwe man.
Zimbabwe Donkey Man.
Yeah.
Zimbabwe Donkey Man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's probably uh top of the uhtop of the top of the tier, top

(59:54):
of the totem pole.
Yep, yep.
Now, don't worry, I willabsolutely link a uh link to
Zimbabwe Man in our show notes.
But please share this episodewith friends.
Check out all of the links toWorldwide Vets and Thrive in the
show notes because it's anabsolutely amazing opportunity.
The dates for next year havealready been set.

(01:00:15):
So get it on your schedule,start finagling your budget
because I've got to tell you, itis worth it.
Thanks again, Danny, for joiningme.
It was so lovely to have you.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:25):
Thank you so much for having me and giving me the
opportunity to talk not onlyabout my culture, but about, you
know, mental health and thisspace.
And it's it's just such aprivilege to be here.
So I'm so grateful.

SPEAKER_08 (01:00:36):
Thank you.
Thank you for all the laughs,the smiles, and of course your
friendship.
Thank you, Andy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:41):
I'm so, so incredibly grateful to have you
with a friend.
Aw, yay! See you guys next time.

SPEAKER_08 (01:00:50):
Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary
Culture Lab, powered by thescience of workplace well-being,
and brought to you by FlourishVeterinary Consulting.
If today's episode sparked anidea, made you smile, or got you
thinking, hey, I should totallytry that.
Let us know.
What do you think?
Be sure to subscribe, share, andremember a thriving veterinary

(01:01:14):
culture is possible, and youdon't have to build it alone.