July 14, 2026 • 42 mins
In this episode of The Veterinary Culture Lab, Andi and Josh explore a powerful and deeply human question: what helps veterinary professionals stay emotionally connected to meaningful work — even when the work itself is hard?
Grounded in research on compassion satisfaction, resilience, psychological distress, and life satisfaction, this conversation unpacks the idea that wellbeing in veterinary medicine is not just about reducing burnout. It is also about understanding the emotional protection that can come from helping others, contributing to a team, and experiencing moments of meaning and impact in everyday practice life.
You’ll hear:
- What “compassion satisfaction” actually means — and why it matters in veterinary medicine
- Why meaningful work can feel both emotionally exhausting and deeply fulfilling at the same time
- The surprising role compassion satisfaction may play in protecting wellbeing
- How veterinary culture sometimes unintentionally rewards self-sacrifice
- Practical ways teams and leaders can build cultures that support meaning, contribution, and connection
Whether you are a veterinary technician, assistant, veterinarian, manager, student, CSR, or practice owner, this episode offers a science-backed and deeply relatable look at how meaningful work, human connection, and healthy culture can help sustain the people doing this important work.
Because compassion satisfaction is not just something veterinary professionals stumble into.
It is something healthy cultures can help create.
Resource Links:
Episode Article:
Title: Life satisfaction, psychological distress, compassion satisfaction and resilience: when the pleasure of helping others protects veterinary staff from emotional suffering
Authors: Maria Manuela Peixoto and Olga Cunha
DOI: https://doi.org/10.1007/s11259-024-10510-0
Florida Man This Week - Kitten Club
What Do You Think? Reach out to us and let us know at Info@flourish.vet
Your Hosts:
Andi Davison LVT, CAPP, APPC
Josh Vaisman MAPPCP, CCFP
At Flourish Veterinary Consulting we renovate veterinary cultures. We diagnose what’s working, blueprint what’s next, and train every team member - blending positive psychology with real-world experience - so thriving becomes the norm, not the myth.
Timestamps:
01:53 Vet Med Paradox
04:04 Boulder Cat Case
15:06 Study Focus and Variables
16:33 Compassion Satisfaction Explained
17:41 Key Findings and Shock Absorbers
23:55 When Meaning Gets Weaponized
26:39 Building Healthier Systems
37:54 Wrap Up and Florida Man
Headed to WVC Nashville this August? We'd LOVE to meet you! Andi will be speaking August 16 & 17, and Josh will be there too. Stop by a session and introduce yourself - we always love meeting members of the Veterinary Culture Lab community. Grab your boots, bring your curiosity, and come say hello!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:04):
Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where
science meets real-worldapplication.
I'm Andy Davison.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
And I'm Josh Weisman.
Together, we'll show you anevidence-based blueprint for
renovating culture in yourveterinary team.
One episode at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Veterinary medicine can leave us emotionally
exhausted and deeply fulfilledat the exact same time.
Today, we're going to explorethe science behind compassion
satisfaction and why meaningfulwork may protect our well-being
more than we might realize.
Hey Josh.
So I know that our listenerscan't see it, but you are
(00:45):
wearing a fantastic t-shirttoday.
It is the Blend Vet Rainbow WeAre Vet Med T-shirt, and I love
it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
That is the one.
We sure do love our friends atBlend and all the great things
they're doing.
Do you know that they youprobably do know this now, Andy?
Um, they have a 501c3 Blend Vetfoundation now.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Ooh, that's fantastic.
Tell me more about it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Uh yeah, I mean, it's just it's a nonprofit arm
of the incredible work thatthey're doing trying to um make
veterinary medicine accessibleto everybody.
And uh I think it's meant to, Icould be wrong.
So hopefully if Cole and Janinehear this podcast, they will
correct me if I'm wrong.
But I think it's meant to uhhelp um uh finance their pathway
(01:33):
uh programs that they do at thedifferent events where they
basically yeah, yeah, yeah.
They bring like students likemiddle school, grade school,
junior high, sometimes highschool students to um these
events to have them likeexperience veterinary medicine.
And uh it's not like with realanimals or anything like that,
but uh to see that they this isactually a viable career path
(01:57):
for them.
And then to see people who lookand sound and act like them
teaching them about veterinarymedicine.
They're really, really coolevents.
So yeah, I definitely encourageall our listeners to check out
Blend Vet.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
They're a wonderfulorganization, full of incredible
humans.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Absolutely agree.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
Very cool.
Good.
Well, I'm glad you're reppingthem with the t-shirt today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah, I do love them.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Cool, good God.
All right, well, I have a papertoday that I'm kind of excited
to share with you.
Um, but before we get into it, Iwant to ask you something
personal.
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (02:34):
Okay.
Because when I think aboutvetmed, the term paradox
sometimes comes to mind for me.
This profession, right, that welove seems to have this
incredible ability to be bothhard and meaningful at the exact
same time.
And while I'm pretty certainthat this paradox clearly
explains the sarcastic darkhumor that has 100% become the
(02:58):
script of our world, it somehowalso creates tension.
And I think that that tension isworth talking about because some
of the moments that drain us themost also seem to become the
moments that stay with us thelongest.
So, with that in mind, Josh, canyou think of a moment in your
(03:20):
veterinary career where youwalked away completely
exhausted, maybe evenemotionally drained, and yet at
the exact same time you feltdeeply fulfilled by what you had
done that day?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
Uh, I could probably think of multiple experiences of
that through my right.
Oh, dare I say almost 30-yearcareer in veterinary medicine
now?
unknown (03:44):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
When did that happen?
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
Okay, we're not old enough for that to be the case.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh I I don't I was actually, Iwas just having this
conversation with Greta with mywife recently about how like I'm
I'm coming up on 50.
I'm gonna be turning 50 herepretty soon.
And um, well, I mean, I have youknow, some aches and pains from
the things that I do.
I don't like in my brain, I amnot a 50-year-old person at all.
I like I remember being ateenager and thinking that 50 50
(04:11):
is like ancient, like those areold people and all people, yeah.
Yeah, I I am definitely notmentally uh 50 years old.
I'm probably still roughly 16.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Um well, and the other thing about that is that I
remember thinking that by thetime I was 50 and old, that I
would like know everything andhave it together and have my
life together and have my shittogether.
And like clearly that's notalways the case.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, still again.
Can relate.
Can relate.
Okay, so a story of a time whenI felt somehow both exhausted
and fulfilled in veterinarymedicine.
Yeah, I am thinking back to thefirst practice that I ever
worked at.
And it was a small animalhospital in Boulder, Colorado.
So it was college town, and wehad gosh, it was such an
(04:55):
interesting mix of clients.
Andy, we would get like thewealthiest people on the planet,
the people that could actuallyafford to live in Boulder, where
the median house price was like$900,000.
And they would come in and itdidn't matter what you know,
what we wanted to do, they hadno problem paying and no problem
doing it.
And then we would get thesecollege students, and a lot of
them were like out-of-statecollege students, right?
(05:16):
So they were playing payingexorbitant tuition and had
almost no money of their own.
And that's what this case was.
So this was she was a youngcollege student, she brought in
her cat.
I want to say the cat was notthat old, five or six years old,
something like that.
Non-weight-bearing rear leftleg, if I remember correctly.
Uh, and to her, it felt like itthis was an acute thing.
(05:38):
Now, I was a like a veterinaryassistant, I was not a
technician, I was trained offthe streets, that kind of thing.
And the the vet that she saw,you know, did an exam, did
diagnostics, x-rays, andbasically the femoral head was
just, it was gone.
It was completely like meltedaway.
Um, and so yeah, this cat likeuh obviously was not gonna be
(05:58):
using that leg.
And he said to her, I was in theroom, like I was in the room
when this came up.
So he kind of explainedeverything to her and he said,
you know, I think what this catneeds is is surgery to repair
this.
There's a really great referralcenter just down the road.
They have boarded surgeons,they're fantastic.
And she looked at him and waslike, Well, how much is that
gonna cost?
And he gave her his roughestimate.
(06:20):
He's uh, you know, I don't know,you'll have to go there and find
out, but it probably around thisrange.
I don't remember what the amountwas.
Remember, this is like almost 30years ago, probably.
All right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
So that was a long amount.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
1900 to$2,500, something like that, which to us
now is like, oh, that's dirtcheap.
But at the time it was a lot ofmoney, and I will never forget
like the look on her face.
Like you could see the tearsstart to well up, and then she
just lost it.
I don't have that kind of money.
There's no way I can do this.
I don't know what to do.
My poor cat is suffering.
(06:49):
I need to help it, whatever.
And he said to her, Well,someday I hope you get to meet
this guy.
You would love him.
He said to her, Well, I'm not aboarded surgeon and I've never
done this procedure before, butthere's a thing called a um,
what was it?
An uh uh uh Bemoral Headosteotomy, F is that right?
FHO.
FHO.
(07:10):
Yeah, yeah.
F H O.
There's this thing called anFHO, and I've never done one,
but I feel like I could do it.
I'll tell you what, if you'rewilling to bring your cat in
after hours, I'll do it for youfor like a hundred bucks.
And she just lit up, right?
Like she was so excited.
Now, we went through the rest ofour workday, and we get to the
end of the day, which by the waywas I don't know what number of
(07:31):
days in a row for me and howmany ridiculous hours I had been
working.
And so I, you know, I mean, Iwas thoroughly exhausted.
We get to the end of my shift,and you know, I'm getting ready
to go.
And he says to me, Um, can youcome back and help me?
And like in my mind, I'm like,all I want to do is go turn into
a vegetable on my couch.
I'm finally done with thestretch of shifts.
(07:52):
I'm gonna have the day offtomorrow.
Like, all I need is to justfreaking rest and recover.
But how do you say no?
And so I said, sure, yeah, I cancome back and help.
Now, at the time, Boulder, whereI lived, was I don't know, 30,
40-minute drive away.
And it at the end of my shift,and then when I needed to come
(08:14):
back after hours, it was not ahuge amount of time.
It didn't make sense for me togo home.
So I didn't even go home.
I just went and like grabbed abite to eat and then came back
to the hospital as the practicewas closing.
So, you know, techniciansmopping in the back the whole
bit.
It's really funny.
I walk in and he is I'm I'm notsaying names to protect the
innocent here.
Uh he he is stooped over adental table.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
Doing what appears to be surgery on a dog, and
there's no anesthetic machinearound.
And I'm like at first horrified,what is happening here?
And then I realize what ishappening here.
Um, there was a euthanasia thatoccurred that day that was going
for general cremation.
Um, and he, I don't know if hehad asked permission, I think,
or something, but he waspracticing the FHO on this dead
(09:00):
dog, yeah, which was hilarious.
So, you know, helped him throughthat, and then we got the cat
all prepped for surgery, uh, youknow, uh uh pre-meded,
anesthetized in the OR.
I literally like printed thepages from the textbook on the
instructions of how to do it atFHO, taped it up in the wall in
the OR, and at eight o'clock atnight we started the surgery.
(09:22):
It probably took less than anhour.
We recovered the cat.
I stuck around till I don'tknow, 10 or 10:30, whatever the
heck time it was after startingthat work day at like seven in
the morning.
And um, and then he let me go.
He stayed for a little bitlonger.
Five days later, she brought thecat in for a recheck, and the
cat was walking.
(09:44):
And like, I mean, just likedoing the surgery and seeing the
cat recover and like knowingthat things were good, like that
was that was an awesome moment.
But it was five days later, itwas like all of a sudden, the
exhaustion, that long ass day,the stretch of days that I
worked, it all just disappeared.
It like it just completelydisappeared.
And I lit up, and I still like Iget a little bit of chills
thinking back to thatexperience.
(10:05):
I mean, this girl was soeternally grateful.
And this cat, like, I mean, it'san FHO, you and I both know it's
a relatively simple procedure,it's not that big a deal, but it
it literally changed this cat'slife and then the life of this
woman.
And it's like that was it, thatmade it all worth it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
Yeah, I can tell it was insanely meaningful for you.
I mean, that happened justyesterday, and you remember all
the details.
You remember, you know, youremember what leg the cat was
lame on.
You remember, you know, whattime of day it started, you
remember how it felt five dayslater when she came back and
brought her kitty and it waswalking.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
So, Josh, what do you think specifically made that
such an impactful and meaningfulmoment for you?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
I I mean, I think you just used the word uh
impact.
It felt like I had made um, youknow, an effort, uh, an
expenditure of my limited time,my limited knowledge, my limited
resources and energy.
I had chosen to spend it onsomething, and I did choose.
I mean, he asked me to show upto come back, and you know, I
said yes and whatever.
(11:11):
I did choose, but it felt like Iwas spending to be there to do
that thing.
And then all of a sudden, fivedays later, I saw the the quote
return on that investment in theimpact that we had made.
And, you know, I it's so I guessthe way that I could describe it
is uh you I don't know, youspend money um on a trip.
(11:34):
I I'm thinking about a trip thatyou just did, Andy, a few years
ago when you in April, right,went um West uh for the the big
like, yeah, yeah.
Like you, you know, you youinvest time in planning it, you
spend money, and you're kind ofexcited about it, but you
haven't done it yet.
But then you go and it turns outto be this just amazing
experience.
And then all of a sudden, all ofthe money that you spent, all
(11:56):
the time you invested inpreparing for it, all the time
you were away from other things,away from your family, whatever
it might be, doesn't matterbecause it was worth it.
So that that's for me what madeit meaningful was like seeing
the tangible impact that ourefforts and time and energy had
made on this cat and on herhuman companion.
(12:16):
Um, yeah, made everythingcompletely worthwhile.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
Yeah, I love that.
You remember those impactfulemotions that came with it over
the exhaustion that you feltprobably while you were standing
there on hour 13, you know,monitoring anesthesia on this
cat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
I've absolutely had thosefeelings too.
They would usually happen in themiddle of the night for me when
I was completely exhaustedphysically and emotionally.
And somehow I was still totallyenergized underneath it all
because something about thatmoment felt meaningful and like
you said, impactful and deeplyhuman.
(12:58):
And honestly, I think that thattension is what sits right at
the center of the paper that Ibrought for us to chat more
about today.
Because the paper actually giveslanguage to that experience
through a concept calledcompassion satisfaction.
And what I really appreciatedabout it is that it approaches
well-being from a positivepsychology lens, right?
(13:19):
So it fits right in with theconversations that we are drawn
to.
It's not ignoring stress,burnout, or the emotional load
that comes with veterinarymedicine, because you and I and
all of our listeners out thereknow that that's all too real.
But instead of asking what'shurting veterinary professional,
this paper wants to know moreabout what can protect them
(13:41):
emotionally while we are doingthis meaningful work.
And I think that's a reallyimportant conversation to have.
So if you're ready, we could diginto this paper a little bit.
What do you say?
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
I yeah, I think I'm ready.
Um you're gonna have to forgiveme.
I'm a little bit off today.
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
I uh uh, why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
I had really weird dreams last night.
I so I uh because of travel, Ihaven't played soccer as much,
and then I'm home this week.
I've been home the whole week.
So I've actually played allthree nights Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, and we're recordingthis on a Friday.
And of course, every gamestarted between 8 and 9 p.m.
Cool and where I play soccer is30 to 45 minutes from home.
(14:20):
Yeah, so and then you know youget home from playing this crazy
game and you're wired, and soyou don't go to sleep till 11 or
12.
I my aura says that my um sleepdebt is um increasing, and my
average sleep score, I thinkthis week has been like 72.
So I'm a little bit off.
I think what happens when I getlike that though is that I have
strange dreams.
And last night I had a dreamthat I was a muffler.
(14:42):
Like literally, I was themuffler in one of my cars, you
know, just driving along, makingmuffler exhaust noises.
Yeah, I woke up totallyexhausted.
SPEAKER_02 (14:52):
As you would.
As you would.
As you would.
If you were if you were amuffler in the middle of a dad
joke.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
All of that was true up until the dad joke portion.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
It's fair.
It's just it was a dad joke thatfit in perfectly with what
you're experiencing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
It did.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
Oh, good.
Okay, well, mufflers aside,let's talk about this paper.
Because I got let's do it, gotkind of excited about it.
The paper that we're discussingtoday, it came out in 2024 and
it's got a long title, like theyall seem to do, right?
These freaking academicresearchers do love a subtitle.
And the title of this paper isLife Satisfaction, Psychological
(15:31):
Distress, CompassionSatisfaction, and Resilience.
When the pleasure of helpingothers protects veterinary staff
from emotional suffering.
Heck of a title.
Now, this article, it waswritten by here we go, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnabutcher it, I'm gonna try my
best, Maria Manuela PXoto andOlga Kunha.
(15:54):
And it was published in theVeterinary Research
Communications in 2024.
And inside that big long titleis a hint at that central
tension that we're kind ofexploring here today.
They wanted to know can themeaningful parts of helping
others actually protectveterinary professionals
(16:15):
emotionally?
Because historically, a lot ofveterinary well-being research
has understandably focused onpsychological distress.
But this paper, whileacknowledging that, actually
focuses on that paradoxal labor,which basically means that the
work that we do in vetmed ismeaningful and emotionally
(16:36):
difficult all at the same time.
And honestly, that feels like apainfully accurate description
of veterinary medicine.
Because the work that we do, itcan simultaneously break your
heart, exhaust you, frustrateyou, and make you feel deeply
connected to the purpose and themeaning of this absolutely
beautiful profession.
(16:56):
So the researchers wanted tobetter understand how several
psychological well-being factorsinteract with one another in
veterinary professionals.
So they specifically looked atlife satisfaction, that's
psychological distress,resilience, social support, and
compassion satisfaction.
Now, compassion satisfactionbecame a really important
(17:18):
concept in this paper, whichessentially refers to the
positive emotional experiencethat we get from helping others.
That feeling of what I didmattered here.
And honestly, I think thisextends far beyond patient care
alone.
I think that compassionsatisfaction in veterinary
medicine can also come frommentoring a teammate, helping a
(17:42):
coworker through a difficultday, teaching a new technician
how to place an IV catheter, orsimply showing up for another
human in a meaningful way.
Because some of the mostmeaningful moments in vetmed can
happen between colleagues.
So, method-wise, this was aquantitative study examining
(18:02):
relationships between all ofthese variables.
Essentially, the researcherswere asking do resilience and
compassion satisfaction helpbuffer psychological distress?
Does feeling fulfilled byhelping others contribute to
overall well-being?
And how strongly are thoseconcepts connected to one
another?
(18:23):
And honestly, the findings,Josh, they were really pretty
interesting because the studyfound that higher life
satisfaction was associated withlower psychological distress,
which I know that probablydoesn't surprise anybody that's
listening.
But what was really interestingwas how that relationship
appeared to work.
(18:44):
The researchers found thatcompassion satisfaction and
resilience both acted asprotective factors.
But interestingly enough,compassion satisfaction was
actually stronger.
In fact, compassion satisfactionexplained about 59% of the
relationship between lifesatisfaction and psychological
(19:06):
distress in this study.
59%.
And it kind of surprised me alittle bit because veterinary
medicine, myself included, talksa lot about resilience.
And understandably so.
But this particular papersuggests that the meaningful
(19:30):
emotional experience of helpingothers may actually play a
pretty large role in protectingour well-being.
And now, importantly, this doesnot mean meaningful work
magically erases suffering.
This paper is not saying, oh, ifyou just love your job more,
then everything will be fine,because that would be wildly
unhelpful.
(19:51):
Instead, the findings suggestthat the meaningful experiences
within the work may serve asprotective psychological
resources, almost like shockabsorbers.
So we're not removing the bumps,we're just helping people absorb
them differently.
And honestly, I think manyveterinary professionals
recognize this intuitivelybecause there are days for one
(20:15):
meaningful interaction, onesuccessful case, one moment of
connection, one teammatecheck-in, or one reminder of how
the work that you're doingmatters can completely change
how hard a day feelsemotionally.
Now, another thing I appreciateabout this paper is that it
reinforces the idea thatwell-being is not simply the
(20:38):
absence of distress.
And I think that that's a hugeconversation in veterinary
medicine right now.
Because if organizations onlyfocus on reducing burnout while
ignoring meaning, connection,and mattering, well, then we're
only solving part of theproblem.
Because flourishing is not howdo we suffer less.
It is also what helps us remainemotionally connected to the
(21:02):
meaningful work that we do inFedMed.
And honestly, I think that's thereal heartbeat of this paper.
Now, Josh, one thing that keptkind of coming up for me when I
was reading through this paperis sometimes it feels really
good to support a coworker, justas good as it can feel to
(21:23):
support a client or a patient.
And to me, that feels likeanother possible source for
compassion satisfaction.
So I'm curious, what what do youthink about sort of my
conclusion there?
And where specifically have youseen veterinary professionals
experience this compassionsatisfaction in everyday
(21:44):
practice life?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
That that's a very interesting question.
Um two parts.
What do I think about yourconclusion and where have I seen
these kinds of things happening?
Uh I I think your conclusionmakes sense.
The paper may not have directlyaddressed that, but I think it's
uh I think it's sensical tointuit that, if only because
compassion satisfaction alsoexists in human medicine.
(22:08):
The people you're taking care ofare other people.
And so I think this idea ofcaring for others can lead to
compassion satisfaction in theprofessional context makes
perfect sense to me.
And as I'm thinking about that,I'm remembering a story.
So, Andy, in my in my master'sprogram for my um final study
for the the thesis research thatI did, I um I interviewed
(22:32):
credentialed veterinarytechnicians.
I did these semi-structured,very intense interviews, uh
roughly 90 minutes on averageper interview.
And I I asked them, there weretwo questions, but the primary
research question was tell meabout a time in as much detail
as you possibly can when youfelt particularly alive,
energized, or enthusiastic inyour work.
And uh one of the stories thatone of the technicians told me
(22:55):
um was about something that shehad done to help a client that
then a team member shared withher that gave her an immense
sense of compassionsatisfaction.
Um, and it was the fact that shehad like, she had reached out to
this person.
It wasn't, I mean, obviously theperson was there because of
(23:16):
something with her animal, butshe saw a need in another human
being, reached out to try andmeet or alleviate that need, had
made an impact on that person tothe point that that client then
called the hospital the next dayto tell somebody what a
difference it made for her.
And then that person whoreceived the call went back to
(23:37):
the technician to share it withher.
And that added just such animmense amount of satisfaction
to uh what I would callcompassion satisfaction to her
work.
Um, yeah, I think things likethat, there's opportunities for
that every single day.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Oh, that's such a cool example because I think
that it takes the science thatthese particular researchers
found and it adds on my crazyconclusions to show that it's it
can build as a level, right?
That there was absolutelycompassion satisfaction between
this particular technician andthe client that they supported.
(24:14):
And when their colleague wentback to them to share how
impactful that was overall, thatwas then coworker supporting
co-worker that just elevatedthat compassion satisfaction
even more.
That's yeah, that's that'sgreat.
I I'm all excited thinking aboutthat.
(24:35):
That's really cool.
I know.
Well, the other thing that keepsnagging me here, and I'll admit
this might be a little bit spicyon my part, but it feels like an
important nuance in this paperbecause, on one hand, meaningful
work can be protective andnourishing.
I mean, yeah, the paper makes itclear.
But on the other hand, I thinkthat vetmed sometimes can
(24:59):
weaponize meaning a little toomuch.
So you love the work.
So you should therefore toleratethe not so awesome things that
come with it, like the emotionaloverload, the poor boundaries,
the communication conundrum,self-sacrifice.
Almost like meaning cansometimes become justification
(25:20):
for unhealthy systems.
Like I said, I get it.
That's a little bit spicy.
You think I'm being spicy or youthink that's legit, Josh?
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Um I for what it's worth, I think you're allowed to
be spicy whenever you want.
Uh I I think it's, I mean, Ithink it's a legitimate concern.
I I think, and there's actuallyliterature to back this, not
that I'm aware of in veterinarymedicine specifically, but in
other like caregiving areassimilar.
Um, I remember uh um a paper, Iwant to say the title of it was
(25:50):
like uh The Dark Side of aCalling.
Uh, and it was research that wasdone on zookeepers.
And um what I suspect, Andy, inin people's defense, what I
suspect is unintentionalweaponization of uh you know
meaningful work.
Um I don't I don't I struggle toimagine that there's a lot of
(26:12):
leaders in veterinary medicinewho you know wake up in the
morning thinking uh about howthey're gonna take advantage of
uh the sense of calling and theand the source of meaning and
purpose.
Never, never, never.
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
We've we have met we have met so many humans in
veterinary medicine, I thinkit's very safe to say that it is
full of absolutely incrediblepeople that don't wake up in the
morning and think, wah uh, howcan I leverage this against
people, right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
Yeah, but it does happen.
But it does happen.
And I think I think the waysthat it often happens is um in
um kicking the cans down theroad.
If people keep showing up toworkplaces in which we subject
them, even if it'sunintentionally, to emotional
overload, poor boundaries,communication conundrums,
(26:58):
self-sacrifice, all the thingsthat you talked about, if people
continue to show up to thoseworkplaces, what is the stimulus
for us to make changes to them?
And then the problems persist.
So yeah, I think it's a verylegitimate concern.
SPEAKER_02 (27:11):
And if those things continue to get rewarded and
celebrated, then there's thatenabling that can sometimes
happen too.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
Absolutely.
So, how do we hold on to thatcompassion satisfaction without
drifting into thatself-sacrificing culture?
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
Yeah.
I I think that that that'sprobably a three-hour
conversation that you and Icould have just on that
question.
I mean, I think it probablytakes a systematic approach from
both people in leadership.
So, you know, a practicemanager, a medical director, a
technician lead, uh, and quote,the people on the floor.
(27:49):
Um, I think that, you know,something has to happen in both.
First of all, I think that weneed to create um systems and
and places for the people on thefloor to be able to express
legitimately and feel heard whenthey are experiencing emotional
overload, um, when they feellike their boundaries are being
crossed or disregarded.
Um, you know, when when they uhdon't feel like they can say no
(28:14):
to things, um, and they have tosay yes, uh, you know, there's
gotta be a way for that to becommunicated and heard and acted
on.
And then of course those thingsneed to be acted on.
Uh, you know, we need to putstructures in place that allow
for that.
So um uh those things to behealthier in the organization.
I think that also leaders canmake a concerted effort to uh,
(28:36):
you know, look for, identify,share stories of impact, uh, you
know, and contribution and showpeople uh how the work that
they're doing is meaningful.
I think that leaders can also becognizant and aware of noticing
and acting on when people mightbe crossing the line in terms of
(28:56):
self-sacrifice uh and acting onthose things too.
Hey, Andy, I noticed that you'vepicked up extra shifts to cover
for people three times in thelast month.
Um, you're gonna take the nexttwo days off.
You know, like I mean, what awonderful thing if a manager
could do something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:13):
Or you could have done what I did, which was
reward that person, right?
Thank them.
Oh gosh, this is so great.
Thank you so much for picking upthis shift.
Thank you so much.
This is the fourth time.
This is amazing.
You're so reliable.
Like, oh man, the damage that Iwas doing as a manager when I
would celebrate those peoplethat would literally sacrifice
(29:35):
themselves.
It oh man.
I mean, that's one of those likeI wish I I wish I'd known better
so that I could have donebetter.
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
Same.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Totally.
It's heartbreaking to think backon when we've done things like
that.
No, I totally agree.
So I I mean, those are alllittle things, but they I think
they're all interrelated.
Again, I could talk about thisone forever.
So I'll I'll just shut up now.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
That's okay, we'll get to because we're going to
get to talk about how we cantake some of this science,
right?
And how we can take this valuethat comes with compassion
satisfaction and use it torenovate our cultures and
implement this stuff into ourworld every day.
Because if this paper is tellingus that compassion, if this
paper is telling us thatcompassion satisfaction, say say
(30:41):
that three times fast, likecompassion satisfaction.
That's that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
I want to try.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Compassion satisfaction, compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction.
Oh my God.
Ooh, show off.
I didn't know.
I really honestly did not expectthat I would be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Um, listeners, he definitely had to close his eyes
and concentrate real hard todoing that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:02):
That is so funny.
That is so funny.
But it's, I mean, maybe weshould practice saying it more
because it needs to be somethingthat we focus on a little bit
more.
Because if we can focus on thatcompassion satisfaction, it can
actually help protect ourwell-being.
And with our additional argumentthat this goal can also help
protect self-sacrifice, I thinkthe obvious next question then
(31:25):
becomes how do we createopportunities for people to
productively experience this?
And honestly, for me, one thingthat this paper clearly
reinforces is that helpingothers can be emotionally
protective and deeply meaningfulfor us as veterinary
professionals.
Heck, for us as humans.
And while this paper does nameclients and patients as those
(31:46):
other people, I think it'sreally worth making that
connection that other people canalso be colleagues, teams, and
coworkers, which means onereally practical culture
renovation strategy is to createmore opportunities for people to
meaningfully contribute to theother people that they work
with.
Not just complete the task, butcontribute to it.
(32:10):
Like I mentioned earlier, itmight look like mentoring newer
team members, teaching oneanother, inviting people to
share ideas, involving people inimproving workflows, or simply
creating an environment wherehelping others is part of the
culture instead of an occasionalaccident.
Because I think peopleexperience a different kind of
(32:30):
fulfillment when they feel likeI helped my colleague today.
I made my team stronger and mypresence here, it matters.
And honestly, I think the secondpiece here is just slowing down
long enough to notice thosemoments when they're happening.
That med, it moves fast.
And we're usually well into thenext problem before we have the
(32:52):
emotional capacity to processthe last one, which means
meaningful moments that candisappear really quickly if
nobody acknowledges them.
So I think a really practicalthing that the team can do is to
build in tiny moments ofreflection into the culture, not
cheesy, forced in a positivesort of kind of way, but
(33:12):
genuine.
Now, listeners will probablyknow that I'm a big fan of
marker boards, and today'sepisode will be no different.
Because wouldn't it be cool toput up a big marker board in the
back or near the break room andshare a prompt like, who made my
job easier today?
People could share meaningfulmoments in a really visible way
(33:33):
that's human and that normalizesnoticing compassion
satisfaction.
Another prompt could be, who didI help today?
I get that this one's a littlebit more vulnerable, which is
actually why I like the markerboard approach because people
could share as much or as littleas they want and they could do
it anonymously.
Now, if marker boards aren'tyour jam, you could certainly
(33:55):
weave these questions intorounds or into huddles because
sometimes compassionsatisfaction, it's not missing.
It's just moving too quickly forpeople to absorb it.
And honestly, I think culturesthat support compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction, compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction help people stay
(34:16):
emotionally connected to whythis work matters and who they
matter to while they're doingit.
So it might be things like that.
I don't know.
What do you think, Josh?
Before I get off on my TED talkand somebody cues some very
meaningful, affectionate pianomusic in the background, what
(34:37):
would you add here?
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
Um okay, so I'm thinking of two things.
Uh internally, I'm thinking ofum what is rewarded is repeated.
And so, like back to what youand I were talking about
earlier, if we are consistentlylike showering people with
gratitude for uh self-sacrifice,we will see self-sacrifice
(35:02):
repeated uh by those who arewilling and able and uh by those
who um you know recognize it forwhat it is, excessive
self-sacrifice at the cost ofcompassion satisfaction, um they
will back away from that.
They will be resentful, uh, theymight leave.
Um, so if if we're gonna play tothis, like what what we reward
(35:25):
will be repeated, then I thinkwe should start rewarding uh
self-care, finding ways to say,you know what, Andy, you called
in sick yesterday, and I'mreally grateful that you did uh
because taking care of yourselfis is essential when you're not
here, so that when you are here,you can do the best for our
patients and clients.
Um, you know, being able to dothat, to to to switch, to be
(35:47):
cognizant of the things thatwe're rewarding, um, and uh be
consistent in rewarding thekinds of things we want to see
more of, genuinely want to seemore of.
Now, I'm I'm gonna expresssomething here because I can I
can almost hear the the peoplegrumbling of like, well, if I
reward people for taking timeoff, they're just gonna take
more time off.
That is absolutely a real risk.
(36:09):
But if you reward people forself-sacrifice, you're gonna see
more self-sacrifice and morepeople who are resentful for
those self-sacrificers and moreturnover and more burnout.
So decide which is the potentialdownside that you're more
comfortable with.
If you're if you decide, I Iwould much rather have
self-sacrifice at the risk ofburnout and turnover than have
(36:33):
people who take care ofthemselves, quote, in excess.
Okay, then this is not gonnawork for you.
But you have to recognize thatthat is the decision that you
are making.
You don't get to have the bestof both worlds.
Externally, the a thing thatthat that's coming up for me is
um, you know, we talked earlierabout collecting stories of
(36:54):
impact.
Uh, I've shared this one before.
I don't remember if I've sharedit in a podcast episode, but
I've definitely shared it withsome people.
Your team is making a differencein the lives of patients and
clients every single day.
They don't often get to see theresults of that.
I mean, that I only got to seethe results of that thing with
that cat because I happened tobe working that day when they
came back in, and I happened tobe the exam room uh you know
(37:15):
assistant, and so I got to seethat.
Otherwise, I don't know ifanyone would have shared that
with me.
Uh, and and it wouldn't havebeen quite as meaningful had I
actually seen it from the clientthemselves.
Every hospital has a list ofclients that you know you're all
going to be thinking about thisas you listen to this.
It's your your very bestclients, the clients that like
literally, if they could go tothe top of their house and sing
(37:36):
your praises to the entireneighborhood, they would do it.
You know, they're they love youto death.
You all have a list of them.
Is it every client?
No, but it's more than one, Iguarantee you, and it's probably
dozens, if not more than that.
What if you like had one ofthose clients every month?
You you hey Andy, listen, you'vebeen such a great client here at
ABC Vet Hospital.
(37:57):
We love you to death.
Um, we feel like you love us.
It would be really helpful ifyou could come in over lunch and
just share with my team for 10or 15 minutes the difference
that they've made in the life ofyou and Scout.
And I'll give you a hundreddollar credit on your uh, you
know, on your account if you dothat.
I'll buy you lunch too, youknow, whatever, right?
(38:19):
And then once a month you had aclient come in and just share
those things in their own words,face to face in front of your
team.
Or get them to record a video orwhatever, just something, right?
So uh it it's a very human wayof showing people like you made
a difference here that mightlead to a higher level of
compassion satisfaction forthem.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
I love that because it involves it involves the
clients, right?
I mean, it broadens that impactout to include the team as well
as the clients and the patientsthat are clearly a great source
of compassion satisfaction here.
That's I love all of that.
Yeah.
And I really think that thispaper, it gives language to
(39:01):
something that a lot ofveterinary professionals have
probably felt for a really longtime, right?
That this work can beemotionally difficult and deeply
meaningful at the exact sametime.
And honestly, I appreciate thatthe paper didn't just focus on
what's hurting veterinaryprofessionals, but it asks what
helps to sustain us while we'redoing this meaningful work.
(39:23):
And I think that it's animportant shift because thriving
in veterinary medicine is abouthelping people remain connected
to the meaning, thecontribution, the relationships
and purpose and the very humanmoments that remind us why this
work matters in the first place.
And honestly, I think one of thebiggest takeaways from today's
(39:44):
conversation is that compassionsatisfaction is probably not
something that we should justhope people stumble upon.
That we can create cultures thatsupport it, teams that build it,
leaders that influence it.
And sometimes the smallestmoments between coworkers end up
being the biggest moments thatprotect us the most, which both
(40:07):
feels very scientific and veryveterinary medicine.
Now, you know what other smallmoments can be pretty
influential?
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Um I'm gonna take a gander here.
It's the small moments of epicbehavior that happens in a tiny
little state in the southeast ofthe US.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
That peninsula, everybody's favorite peninsula,
right?
Florida.
Yep.
And Florida man, I don't know, Idon't know if his moments are
small moments, but epic isdefinitely a way, a way to put
it.
Because the this this headline,I don't know.
I feel like I say this abouteveryone, and I'm like super
excited to share it because it'shilarious, but it's true about
(40:49):
every single headline, and thisone is absolutely no exception.
Florida man arrested for calling911 after his cat was denied
entry to the club.
So a Florida man visited aFlorida nightclub alongside his
kitten, but the officials deniedaccess to the facility.
(41:11):
Now, instead of leaving, thisFlorida man called 911.
And when the cops arrived, hewas uncooperative and continued
calling 911, and he was arrestedfor the misuse of 911.
SPEAKER_00 (41:25):
Um, was the cat also arrested?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Oh, su surely not.
The cat did nothing wrong.
He was just being cute andwanted to go to the club.
SPEAKER_00 (41:33):
That is amazing.
You mean my cat's not on thelist?
SPEAKER_02 (41:37):
Yep, yep.
This is this is a warning to allclub owners.
Put the cat on the list.
So funny.
SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
That is amazing.
I'll bet his cat is namedChairman Meow.
SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
Oh, I'm sure it is.
If it's not, it should be.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
Oh, good.
Well, listen, thank you forbeing here with me today.
Thanks for letting me bring thisarticle to share and have a
great conversation.
To all of our listeners, thanksfor taking the time to hang out
with us.
Be sure to check out the linksin the show notes and follow the
podcast.
And if you would take a momentto rate it, we would be forever
grateful.
Until next time, bye.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
See ya.
SPEAKER_02 (42:17):
Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary
Culture Lab, covered by thescience of workplace well-being,
and brought to you by FlourishedVeterinary Consulting.
If today's episode sparked anidea, made you smile, or got you
thinking, hey, I should totallytry that.
Let us know.
What do you think?
Be sure to subscribe, share, andremember a thriving veterinary
(42:41):
culture is possible, and youdon't have to build it alone.
Welcome to the Veterinary Culture Lab, where
science meets real-worldapplication.
I'm Andy Davison.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
And I'm Josh Weisman.
Together, we'll show you anevidence-based blueprint for
renovating culture in yourveterinary team.
One episode at a time.
SPEAKER_02 (00:23):
Veterinary medicine can leave us emotionally
exhausted and deeply fulfilledat the exact same time.
Today, we're going to explorethe science behind compassion
satisfaction and why meaningfulwork may protect our well-being
more than we might realize.
Hey Josh.
So I know that our listenerscan't see it, but you are
(00:45):
wearing a fantastic t-shirttoday.
It is the Blend Vet Rainbow WeAre Vet Med T-shirt, and I love
it.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
That is the one.
We sure do love our friends atBlend and all the great things
they're doing.
Do you know that they youprobably do know this now, Andy?
Um, they have a 501c3 Blend Vetfoundation now.
SPEAKER_02 (01:07):
Ooh, that's fantastic.
Tell me more about it.
SPEAKER_00 (01:10):
Uh yeah, I mean, it's just it's a nonprofit arm
of the incredible work thatthey're doing trying to um make
veterinary medicine accessibleto everybody.
And uh I think it's meant to, Icould be wrong.
So hopefully if Cole and Janinehear this podcast, they will
correct me if I'm wrong.
But I think it's meant to uhhelp um uh finance their pathway
(01:33):
uh programs that they do at thedifferent events where they
basically yeah, yeah, yeah.
They bring like students likemiddle school, grade school,
junior high, sometimes highschool students to um these
events to have them likeexperience veterinary medicine.
And uh it's not like with realanimals or anything like that,
but uh to see that they this isactually a viable career path
(01:57):
for them.
And then to see people who lookand sound and act like them
teaching them about veterinarymedicine.
They're really, really coolevents.
So yeah, I definitely encourageall our listeners to check out
Blend Vet.
SPEAKER_02 (02:08):
Yeah, that's awesome.
They're a wonderfulorganization, full of incredible
humans.
SPEAKER_00 (02:12):
Absolutely agree.
SPEAKER_02 (02:13):
Very cool.
Good.
Well, I'm glad you're reppingthem with the t-shirt today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:18):
Yeah, I do love them.
SPEAKER_02 (02:20):
Cool, good God.
All right, well, I have a papertoday that I'm kind of excited
to share with you.
Um, but before we get into it, Iwant to ask you something
personal.
Is that okay?
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (02:34):
Okay.
Because when I think aboutvetmed, the term paradox
sometimes comes to mind for me.
This profession, right, that welove seems to have this
incredible ability to be bothhard and meaningful at the exact
same time.
And while I'm pretty certainthat this paradox clearly
explains the sarcastic darkhumor that has 100% become the
(02:58):
script of our world, it somehowalso creates tension.
And I think that that tension isworth talking about because some
of the moments that drain us themost also seem to become the
moments that stay with us thelongest.
So, with that in mind, Josh, canyou think of a moment in your
(03:20):
veterinary career where youwalked away completely
exhausted, maybe evenemotionally drained, and yet at
the exact same time you feltdeeply fulfilled by what you had
done that day?
SPEAKER_00 (03:34):
Uh, I could probably think of multiple experiences of
that through my right.
Oh, dare I say almost 30-yearcareer in veterinary medicine
now?
unknown (03:44):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (03:44):
When did that happen?
I know.
SPEAKER_02 (03:46):
Okay, we're not old enough for that to be the case.
SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Yeah, yeah.
Uh I I don't I was actually, Iwas just having this
conversation with Greta with mywife recently about how like I'm
I'm coming up on 50.
I'm gonna be turning 50 herepretty soon.
And um, well, I mean, I have youknow, some aches and pains from
the things that I do.
I don't like in my brain, I amnot a 50-year-old person at all.
I like I remember being ateenager and thinking that 50 50
(04:11):
is like ancient, like those areold people and all people, yeah.
Yeah, I I am definitely notmentally uh 50 years old.
I'm probably still roughly 16.
SPEAKER_02 (04:22):
Um well, and the other thing about that is that I
remember thinking that by thetime I was 50 and old, that I
would like know everything andhave it together and have my
life together and have my shittogether.
And like clearly that's notalways the case.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Yeah, still again.
Can relate.
Can relate.
Okay, so a story of a time whenI felt somehow both exhausted
and fulfilled in veterinarymedicine.
Yeah, I am thinking back to thefirst practice that I ever
worked at.
And it was a small animalhospital in Boulder, Colorado.
So it was college town, and wehad gosh, it was such an
(04:55):
interesting mix of clients.
Andy, we would get like thewealthiest people on the planet,
the people that could actuallyafford to live in Boulder, where
the median house price was like$900,000.
And they would come in and itdidn't matter what you know,
what we wanted to do, they hadno problem paying and no problem
doing it.
And then we would get thesecollege students, and a lot of
them were like out-of-statecollege students, right?
(05:16):
So they were playing payingexorbitant tuition and had
almost no money of their own.
And that's what this case was.
So this was she was a youngcollege student, she brought in
her cat.
I want to say the cat was notthat old, five or six years old,
something like that.
Non-weight-bearing rear leftleg, if I remember correctly.
Uh, and to her, it felt like itthis was an acute thing.
(05:38):
Now, I was a like a veterinaryassistant, I was not a
technician, I was trained offthe streets, that kind of thing.
And the the vet that she saw,you know, did an exam, did
diagnostics, x-rays, andbasically the femoral head was
just, it was gone.
It was completely like meltedaway.
Um, and so yeah, this cat likeuh obviously was not gonna be
(05:58):
using that leg.
And he said to her, I was in theroom, like I was in the room
when this came up.
So he kind of explainedeverything to her and he said,
you know, I think what this catneeds is is surgery to repair
this.
There's a really great referralcenter just down the road.
They have boarded surgeons,they're fantastic.
And she looked at him and waslike, Well, how much is that
gonna cost?
And he gave her his roughestimate.
(06:20):
He's uh, you know, I don't know,you'll have to go there and find
out, but it probably around thisrange.
I don't remember what the amountwas.
Remember, this is like almost 30years ago, probably.
All right, right.
SPEAKER_02 (06:28):
So that was a long amount.
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
1900 to$2,500, something like that, which to us
now is like, oh, that's dirtcheap.
But at the time it was a lot ofmoney, and I will never forget
like the look on her face.
Like you could see the tearsstart to well up, and then she
just lost it.
I don't have that kind of money.
There's no way I can do this.
I don't know what to do.
My poor cat is suffering.
(06:49):
I need to help it, whatever.
And he said to her, Well,someday I hope you get to meet
this guy.
You would love him.
He said to her, Well, I'm not aboarded surgeon and I've never
done this procedure before, butthere's a thing called a um,
what was it?
An uh uh uh Bemoral Headosteotomy, F is that right?
FHO.
FHO.
(07:10):
Yeah, yeah.
F H O.
There's this thing called anFHO, and I've never done one,
but I feel like I could do it.
I'll tell you what, if you'rewilling to bring your cat in
after hours, I'll do it for youfor like a hundred bucks.
And she just lit up, right?
Like she was so excited.
Now, we went through the rest ofour workday, and we get to the
end of the day, which by the waywas I don't know what number of
(07:31):
days in a row for me and howmany ridiculous hours I had been
working.
And so I, you know, I mean, Iwas thoroughly exhausted.
We get to the end of my shift,and you know, I'm getting ready
to go.
And he says to me, Um, can youcome back and help me?
And like in my mind, I'm like,all I want to do is go turn into
a vegetable on my couch.
I'm finally done with thestretch of shifts.
(07:52):
I'm gonna have the day offtomorrow.
Like, all I need is to justfreaking rest and recover.
But how do you say no?
And so I said, sure, yeah, I cancome back and help.
Now, at the time, Boulder, whereI lived, was I don't know, 30,
40-minute drive away.
And it at the end of my shift,and then when I needed to come
(08:14):
back after hours, it was not ahuge amount of time.
It didn't make sense for me togo home.
So I didn't even go home.
I just went and like grabbed abite to eat and then came back
to the hospital as the practicewas closing.
So, you know, techniciansmopping in the back the whole
bit.
It's really funny.
I walk in and he is I'm I'm notsaying names to protect the
innocent here.
Uh he he is stooped over adental table.
SPEAKER_02 (08:37):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (08:38):
Doing what appears to be surgery on a dog, and
there's no anesthetic machinearound.
And I'm like at first horrified,what is happening here?
And then I realize what ishappening here.
Um, there was a euthanasia thatoccurred that day that was going
for general cremation.
Um, and he, I don't know if hehad asked permission, I think,
or something, but he waspracticing the FHO on this dead
(09:00):
dog, yeah, which was hilarious.
So, you know, helped him throughthat, and then we got the cat
all prepped for surgery, uh, youknow, uh uh pre-meded,
anesthetized in the OR.
I literally like printed thepages from the textbook on the
instructions of how to do it atFHO, taped it up in the wall in
the OR, and at eight o'clock atnight we started the surgery.
(09:22):
It probably took less than anhour.
We recovered the cat.
I stuck around till I don'tknow, 10 or 10:30, whatever the
heck time it was after startingthat work day at like seven in
the morning.
And um, and then he let me go.
He stayed for a little bitlonger.
Five days later, she brought thecat in for a recheck, and the
cat was walking.
(09:44):
And like, I mean, just likedoing the surgery and seeing the
cat recover and like knowingthat things were good, like that
was that was an awesome moment.
But it was five days later, itwas like all of a sudden, the
exhaustion, that long ass day,the stretch of days that I
worked, it all just disappeared.
It like it just completelydisappeared.
And I lit up, and I still like Iget a little bit of chills
thinking back to thatexperience.
(10:05):
I mean, this girl was soeternally grateful.
And this cat, like, I mean, it'san FHO, you and I both know it's
a relatively simple procedure,it's not that big a deal, but it
it literally changed this cat'slife and then the life of this
woman.
And it's like that was it, thatmade it all worth it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:20):
Yeah, I can tell it was insanely meaningful for you.
I mean, that happened justyesterday, and you remember all
the details.
You remember, you know, youremember what leg the cat was
lame on.
You remember, you know, whattime of day it started, you
remember how it felt five dayslater when she came back and
brought her kitty and it waswalking.
SPEAKER_01 (10:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
So, Josh, what do you think specifically made that
such an impactful and meaningfulmoment for you?
SPEAKER_00 (10:51):
I I mean, I think you just used the word uh
impact.
It felt like I had made um, youknow, an effort, uh, an
expenditure of my limited time,my limited knowledge, my limited
resources and energy.
I had chosen to spend it onsomething, and I did choose.
I mean, he asked me to show upto come back, and you know, I
said yes and whatever.
(11:11):
I did choose, but it felt like Iwas spending to be there to do
that thing.
And then all of a sudden, fivedays later, I saw the the quote
return on that investment in theimpact that we had made.
And, you know, I it's so I guessthe way that I could describe it
is uh you I don't know, youspend money um on a trip.
(11:34):
I I'm thinking about a trip thatyou just did, Andy, a few years
ago when you in April, right,went um West uh for the the big
like, yeah, yeah.
Like you, you know, you youinvest time in planning it, you
spend money, and you're kind ofexcited about it, but you
haven't done it yet.
But then you go and it turns outto be this just amazing
experience.
And then all of a sudden, all ofthe money that you spent, all
(11:56):
the time you invested inpreparing for it, all the time
you were away from other things,away from your family, whatever
it might be, doesn't matterbecause it was worth it.
So that that's for me what madeit meaningful was like seeing
the tangible impact that ourefforts and time and energy had
made on this cat and on herhuman companion.
(12:16):
Um, yeah, made everythingcompletely worthwhile.
SPEAKER_02 (12:19):
Yeah, I love that.
You remember those impactfulemotions that came with it over
the exhaustion that you feltprobably while you were standing
there on hour 13, you know,monitoring anesthesia on this
cat.
SPEAKER_01 (12:34):
Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:36):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
I've absolutely had thosefeelings too.
They would usually happen in themiddle of the night for me when
I was completely exhaustedphysically and emotionally.
And somehow I was still totallyenergized underneath it all
because something about thatmoment felt meaningful and like
you said, impactful and deeplyhuman.
(12:58):
And honestly, I think that thattension is what sits right at
the center of the paper that Ibrought for us to chat more
about today.
Because the paper actually giveslanguage to that experience
through a concept calledcompassion satisfaction.
And what I really appreciatedabout it is that it approaches
well-being from a positivepsychology lens, right?
(13:19):
So it fits right in with theconversations that we are drawn
to.
It's not ignoring stress,burnout, or the emotional load
that comes with veterinarymedicine, because you and I and
all of our listeners out thereknow that that's all too real.
But instead of asking what'shurting veterinary professional,
this paper wants to know moreabout what can protect them
(13:41):
emotionally while we are doingthis meaningful work.
And I think that's a reallyimportant conversation to have.
So if you're ready, we could diginto this paper a little bit.
What do you say?
SPEAKER_00 (13:53):
I yeah, I think I'm ready.
Um you're gonna have to forgiveme.
I'm a little bit off today.
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
I uh uh, why is that?
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
I had really weird dreams last night.
I so I uh because of travel, Ihaven't played soccer as much,
and then I'm home this week.
I've been home the whole week.
So I've actually played allthree nights Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, and we're recordingthis on a Friday.
And of course, every gamestarted between 8 and 9 p.m.
Cool and where I play soccer is30 to 45 minutes from home.
(14:20):
Yeah, so and then you know youget home from playing this crazy
game and you're wired, and soyou don't go to sleep till 11 or
12.
I my aura says that my um sleepdebt is um increasing, and my
average sleep score, I thinkthis week has been like 72.
So I'm a little bit off.
I think what happens when I getlike that though is that I have
strange dreams.
And last night I had a dreamthat I was a muffler.
(14:42):
Like literally, I was themuffler in one of my cars, you
know, just driving along, makingmuffler exhaust noises.
Yeah, I woke up totallyexhausted.
SPEAKER_02 (14:52):
As you would.
As you would.
As you would.
If you were if you were amuffler in the middle of a dad
joke.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
All of that was true up until the dad joke portion.
SPEAKER_02 (15:01):
It's fair.
It's just it was a dad joke thatfit in perfectly with what
you're experiencing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:07):
It did.
SPEAKER_02 (15:09):
Oh, good.
Okay, well, mufflers aside,let's talk about this paper.
Because I got let's do it, gotkind of excited about it.
The paper that we're discussingtoday, it came out in 2024 and
it's got a long title, like theyall seem to do, right?
These freaking academicresearchers do love a subtitle.
And the title of this paper isLife Satisfaction, Psychological
(15:31):
Distress, CompassionSatisfaction, and Resilience.
When the pleasure of helpingothers protects veterinary staff
from emotional suffering.
Heck of a title.
Now, this article, it waswritten by here we go, I'm
gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonnabutcher it, I'm gonna try my
best, Maria Manuela PXoto andOlga Kunha.
(15:54):
And it was published in theVeterinary Research
Communications in 2024.
And inside that big long titleis a hint at that central
tension that we're kind ofexploring here today.
They wanted to know can themeaningful parts of helping
others actually protectveterinary professionals
(16:15):
emotionally?
Because historically, a lot ofveterinary well-being research
has understandably focused onpsychological distress.
But this paper, whileacknowledging that, actually
focuses on that paradoxal labor,which basically means that the
work that we do in vetmed ismeaningful and emotionally
(16:36):
difficult all at the same time.
And honestly, that feels like apainfully accurate description
of veterinary medicine.
Because the work that we do, itcan simultaneously break your
heart, exhaust you, frustrateyou, and make you feel deeply
connected to the purpose and themeaning of this absolutely
beautiful profession.
(16:56):
So the researchers wanted tobetter understand how several
psychological well-being factorsinteract with one another in
veterinary professionals.
So they specifically looked atlife satisfaction, that's
psychological distress,resilience, social support, and
compassion satisfaction.
Now, compassion satisfactionbecame a really important
(17:18):
concept in this paper, whichessentially refers to the
positive emotional experiencethat we get from helping others.
That feeling of what I didmattered here.
And honestly, I think thisextends far beyond patient care
alone.
I think that compassionsatisfaction in veterinary
medicine can also come frommentoring a teammate, helping a
(17:42):
coworker through a difficultday, teaching a new technician
how to place an IV catheter, orsimply showing up for another
human in a meaningful way.
Because some of the mostmeaningful moments in vetmed can
happen between colleagues.
So, method-wise, this was aquantitative study examining
(18:02):
relationships between all ofthese variables.
Essentially, the researcherswere asking do resilience and
compassion satisfaction helpbuffer psychological distress?
Does feeling fulfilled byhelping others contribute to
overall well-being?
And how strongly are thoseconcepts connected to one
another?
(18:23):
And honestly, the findings,Josh, they were really pretty
interesting because the studyfound that higher life
satisfaction was associated withlower psychological distress,
which I know that probablydoesn't surprise anybody that's
listening.
But what was really interestingwas how that relationship
appeared to work.
(18:44):
The researchers found thatcompassion satisfaction and
resilience both acted asprotective factors.
But interestingly enough,compassion satisfaction was
actually stronger.
In fact, compassion satisfactionexplained about 59% of the
relationship between lifesatisfaction and psychological
(19:06):
distress in this study.
59%.
And it kind of surprised me alittle bit because veterinary
medicine, myself included, talksa lot about resilience.
And understandably so.
But this particular papersuggests that the meaningful
(19:30):
emotional experience of helpingothers may actually play a
pretty large role in protectingour well-being.
And now, importantly, this doesnot mean meaningful work
magically erases suffering.
This paper is not saying, oh, ifyou just love your job more,
then everything will be fine,because that would be wildly
unhelpful.
(19:51):
Instead, the findings suggestthat the meaningful experiences
within the work may serve asprotective psychological
resources, almost like shockabsorbers.
So we're not removing the bumps,we're just helping people absorb
them differently.
And honestly, I think manyveterinary professionals
recognize this intuitivelybecause there are days for one
(20:15):
meaningful interaction, onesuccessful case, one moment of
connection, one teammatecheck-in, or one reminder of how
the work that you're doingmatters can completely change
how hard a day feelsemotionally.
Now, another thing I appreciateabout this paper is that it
reinforces the idea thatwell-being is not simply the
(20:38):
absence of distress.
And I think that that's a hugeconversation in veterinary
medicine right now.
Because if organizations onlyfocus on reducing burnout while
ignoring meaning, connection,and mattering, well, then we're
only solving part of theproblem.
Because flourishing is not howdo we suffer less.
It is also what helps us remainemotionally connected to the
(21:02):
meaningful work that we do inFedMed.
And honestly, I think that's thereal heartbeat of this paper.
Now, Josh, one thing that keptkind of coming up for me when I
was reading through this paperis sometimes it feels really
good to support a coworker, justas good as it can feel to
(21:23):
support a client or a patient.
And to me, that feels likeanother possible source for
compassion satisfaction.
So I'm curious, what what do youthink about sort of my
conclusion there?
And where specifically have youseen veterinary professionals
experience this compassionsatisfaction in everyday
(21:44):
practice life?
SPEAKER_00 (21:45):
That that's a very interesting question.
Um two parts.
What do I think about yourconclusion and where have I seen
these kinds of things happening?
Uh I I think your conclusionmakes sense.
The paper may not have directlyaddressed that, but I think it's
uh I think it's sensical tointuit that, if only because
compassion satisfaction alsoexists in human medicine.
(22:08):
The people you're taking care ofare other people.
And so I think this idea ofcaring for others can lead to
compassion satisfaction in theprofessional context makes
perfect sense to me.
And as I'm thinking about that,I'm remembering a story.
So, Andy, in my in my master'sprogram for my um final study
for the the thesis research thatI did, I um I interviewed
(22:32):
credentialed veterinarytechnicians.
I did these semi-structured,very intense interviews, uh
roughly 90 minutes on averageper interview.
And I I asked them, there weretwo questions, but the primary
research question was tell meabout a time in as much detail
as you possibly can when youfelt particularly alive,
energized, or enthusiastic inyour work.
And uh one of the stories thatone of the technicians told me
(22:55):
um was about something that shehad done to help a client that
then a team member shared withher that gave her an immense
sense of compassionsatisfaction.
Um, and it was the fact that shehad like, she had reached out to
this person.
It wasn't, I mean, obviously theperson was there because of
(23:16):
something with her animal, butshe saw a need in another human
being, reached out to try andmeet or alleviate that need, had
made an impact on that person tothe point that that client then
called the hospital the next dayto tell somebody what a
difference it made for her.
And then that person whoreceived the call went back to
(23:37):
the technician to share it withher.
And that added just such animmense amount of satisfaction
to uh what I would callcompassion satisfaction to her
work.
Um, yeah, I think things likethat, there's opportunities for
that every single day.
SPEAKER_02 (23:52):
Oh, that's such a cool example because I think
that it takes the science thatthese particular researchers
found and it adds on my crazyconclusions to show that it's it
can build as a level, right?
That there was absolutelycompassion satisfaction between
this particular technician andthe client that they supported.
(24:14):
And when their colleague wentback to them to share how
impactful that was overall, thatwas then coworker supporting
co-worker that just elevatedthat compassion satisfaction
even more.
That's yeah, that's that'sgreat.
I I'm all excited thinking aboutthat.
(24:35):
That's really cool.
I know.
Well, the other thing that keepsnagging me here, and I'll admit
this might be a little bit spicyon my part, but it feels like an
important nuance in this paperbecause, on one hand, meaningful
work can be protective andnourishing.
I mean, yeah, the paper makes itclear.
But on the other hand, I thinkthat vetmed sometimes can
(24:59):
weaponize meaning a little toomuch.
So you love the work.
So you should therefore toleratethe not so awesome things that
come with it, like the emotionaloverload, the poor boundaries,
the communication conundrum,self-sacrifice.
Almost like meaning cansometimes become justification
(25:20):
for unhealthy systems.
Like I said, I get it.
That's a little bit spicy.
You think I'm being spicy or youthink that's legit, Josh?
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Um I for what it's worth, I think you're allowed to
be spicy whenever you want.
Uh I I think it's, I mean, Ithink it's a legitimate concern.
I I think, and there's actuallyliterature to back this, not
that I'm aware of in veterinarymedicine specifically, but in
other like caregiving areassimilar.
Um, I remember uh um a paper, Iwant to say the title of it was
(25:50):
like uh The Dark Side of aCalling.
Uh, and it was research that wasdone on zookeepers.
And um what I suspect, Andy, inin people's defense, what I
suspect is unintentionalweaponization of uh you know
meaningful work.
Um I don't I don't I struggle toimagine that there's a lot of
(26:12):
leaders in veterinary medicinewho you know wake up in the
morning thinking uh about howthey're gonna take advantage of
uh the sense of calling and theand the source of meaning and
purpose.
Never, never, never.
SPEAKER_02 (26:23):
We've we have met we have met so many humans in
veterinary medicine, I thinkit's very safe to say that it is
full of absolutely incrediblepeople that don't wake up in the
morning and think, wah uh, howcan I leverage this against
people, right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:37):
Yeah, but it does happen.
But it does happen.
And I think I think the waysthat it often happens is um in
um kicking the cans down theroad.
If people keep showing up toworkplaces in which we subject
them, even if it'sunintentionally, to emotional
overload, poor boundaries,communication conundrums,
(26:58):
self-sacrifice, all the thingsthat you talked about, if people
continue to show up to thoseworkplaces, what is the stimulus
for us to make changes to them?
And then the problems persist.
So yeah, I think it's a verylegitimate concern.
SPEAKER_02 (27:11):
And if those things continue to get rewarded and
celebrated, then there's thatenabling that can sometimes
happen too.
SPEAKER_00 (27:19):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
Absolutely.
So, how do we hold on to thatcompassion satisfaction without
drifting into thatself-sacrificing culture?
SPEAKER_00 (27:28):
Yeah.
I I think that that that'sprobably a three-hour
conversation that you and Icould have just on that
question.
I mean, I think it probablytakes a systematic approach from
both people in leadership.
So, you know, a practicemanager, a medical director, a
technician lead, uh, and quote,the people on the floor.
(27:49):
Um, I think that, you know,something has to happen in both.
First of all, I think that weneed to create um systems and
and places for the people on thefloor to be able to express
legitimately and feel heard whenthey are experiencing emotional
overload, um, when they feellike their boundaries are being
crossed or disregarded.
Um, you know, when when they uhdon't feel like they can say no
(28:14):
to things, um, and they have tosay yes, uh, you know, there's
gotta be a way for that to becommunicated and heard and acted
on.
And then of course those thingsneed to be acted on.
Uh, you know, we need to putstructures in place that allow
for that.
So um uh those things to behealthier in the organization.
I think that also leaders canmake a concerted effort to uh,
(28:36):
you know, look for, identify,share stories of impact, uh, you
know, and contribution and showpeople uh how the work that
they're doing is meaningful.
I think that leaders can also becognizant and aware of noticing
and acting on when people mightbe crossing the line in terms of
(28:56):
self-sacrifice uh and acting onthose things too.
Hey, Andy, I noticed that you'vepicked up extra shifts to cover
for people three times in thelast month.
Um, you're gonna take the nexttwo days off.
You know, like I mean, what awonderful thing if a manager
could do something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (29:13):
Or you could have done what I did, which was
reward that person, right?
Thank them.
Oh gosh, this is so great.
Thank you so much for picking upthis shift.
Thank you so much.
This is the fourth time.
This is amazing.
You're so reliable.
Like, oh man, the damage that Iwas doing as a manager when I
would celebrate those peoplethat would literally sacrifice
(29:35):
themselves.
It oh man.
I mean, that's one of those likeI wish I I wish I'd known better
so that I could have donebetter.
SPEAKER_00 (29:43):
Same.
SPEAKER_02 (29:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Totally.
It's heartbreaking to think backon when we've done things like
that.
No, I totally agree.
So I I mean, those are alllittle things, but they I think
they're all interrelated.
Again, I could talk about thisone forever.
So I'll I'll just shut up now.
SPEAKER_02 (30:18):
That's okay, we'll get to because we're going to
get to talk about how we cantake some of this science,
right?
And how we can take this valuethat comes with compassion
satisfaction and use it torenovate our cultures and
implement this stuff into ourworld every day.
Because if this paper is tellingus that compassion, if this
paper is telling us thatcompassion satisfaction, say say
(30:41):
that three times fast, likecompassion satisfaction.
That's that's a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
I want to try.
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Compassion satisfaction, compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction.
Oh my God.
Ooh, show off.
I didn't know.
I really honestly did not expectthat I would be able to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (30:56):
Um, listeners, he definitely had to close his eyes
and concentrate real hard todoing that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:01):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:02):
That is so funny.
That is so funny.
But it's, I mean, maybe weshould practice saying it more
because it needs to be somethingthat we focus on a little bit
more.
Because if we can focus on thatcompassion satisfaction, it can
actually help protect ourwell-being.
And with our additional argumentthat this goal can also help
protect self-sacrifice, I thinkthe obvious next question then
(31:25):
becomes how do we createopportunities for people to
productively experience this?
And honestly, for me, one thingthat this paper clearly
reinforces is that helpingothers can be emotionally
protective and deeply meaningfulfor us as veterinary
professionals.
Heck, for us as humans.
And while this paper does nameclients and patients as those
(31:46):
other people, I think it'sreally worth making that
connection that other people canalso be colleagues, teams, and
coworkers, which means onereally practical culture
renovation strategy is to createmore opportunities for people to
meaningfully contribute to theother people that they work
with.
Not just complete the task, butcontribute to it.
(32:10):
Like I mentioned earlier, itmight look like mentoring newer
team members, teaching oneanother, inviting people to
share ideas, involving people inimproving workflows, or simply
creating an environment wherehelping others is part of the
culture instead of an occasionalaccident.
Because I think peopleexperience a different kind of
(32:30):
fulfillment when they feel likeI helped my colleague today.
I made my team stronger and mypresence here, it matters.
And honestly, I think the secondpiece here is just slowing down
long enough to notice thosemoments when they're happening.
That med, it moves fast.
And we're usually well into thenext problem before we have the
(32:52):
emotional capacity to processthe last one, which means
meaningful moments that candisappear really quickly if
nobody acknowledges them.
So I think a really practicalthing that the team can do is to
build in tiny moments ofreflection into the culture, not
cheesy, forced in a positivesort of kind of way, but
(33:12):
genuine.
Now, listeners will probablyknow that I'm a big fan of
marker boards, and today'sepisode will be no different.
Because wouldn't it be cool toput up a big marker board in the
back or near the break room andshare a prompt like, who made my
job easier today?
People could share meaningfulmoments in a really visible way
(33:33):
that's human and that normalizesnoticing compassion
satisfaction.
Another prompt could be, who didI help today?
I get that this one's a littlebit more vulnerable, which is
actually why I like the markerboard approach because people
could share as much or as littleas they want and they could do
it anonymously.
Now, if marker boards aren'tyour jam, you could certainly
(33:55):
weave these questions intorounds or into huddles because
sometimes compassionsatisfaction, it's not missing.
It's just moving too quickly forpeople to absorb it.
And honestly, I think culturesthat support compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction, compassion
satisfaction, compassionsatisfaction help people stay
(34:16):
emotionally connected to whythis work matters and who they
matter to while they're doingit.
So it might be things like that.
I don't know.
What do you think, Josh?
Before I get off on my TED talkand somebody cues some very
meaningful, affectionate pianomusic in the background, what
(34:37):
would you add here?
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
Um okay, so I'm thinking of two things.
Uh internally, I'm thinking ofum what is rewarded is repeated.
And so, like back to what youand I were talking about
earlier, if we are consistentlylike showering people with
gratitude for uh self-sacrifice,we will see self-sacrifice
(35:02):
repeated uh by those who arewilling and able and uh by those
who um you know recognize it forwhat it is, excessive
self-sacrifice at the cost ofcompassion satisfaction, um they
will back away from that.
They will be resentful, uh, theymight leave.
Um, so if if we're gonna play tothis, like what what we reward
(35:25):
will be repeated, then I thinkwe should start rewarding uh
self-care, finding ways to say,you know what, Andy, you called
in sick yesterday, and I'mreally grateful that you did uh
because taking care of yourselfis is essential when you're not
here, so that when you are here,you can do the best for our
patients and clients.
Um, you know, being able to dothat, to to to switch, to be
(35:47):
cognizant of the things thatwe're rewarding, um, and uh be
consistent in rewarding thekinds of things we want to see
more of, genuinely want to seemore of.
Now, I'm I'm gonna expresssomething here because I can I
can almost hear the the peoplegrumbling of like, well, if I
reward people for taking timeoff, they're just gonna take
more time off.
That is absolutely a real risk.
(36:09):
But if you reward people forself-sacrifice, you're gonna see
more self-sacrifice and morepeople who are resentful for
those self-sacrificers and moreturnover and more burnout.
So decide which is the potentialdownside that you're more
comfortable with.
If you're if you decide, I Iwould much rather have
self-sacrifice at the risk ofburnout and turnover than have
(36:33):
people who take care ofthemselves, quote, in excess.
Okay, then this is not gonnawork for you.
But you have to recognize thatthat is the decision that you
are making.
You don't get to have the bestof both worlds.
Externally, the a thing thatthat that's coming up for me is
um, you know, we talked earlierabout collecting stories of
(36:54):
impact.
Uh, I've shared this one before.
I don't remember if I've sharedit in a podcast episode, but
I've definitely shared it withsome people.
Your team is making a differencein the lives of patients and
clients every single day.
They don't often get to see theresults of that.
I mean, that I only got to seethe results of that thing with
that cat because I happened tobe working that day when they
came back in, and I happened tobe the exam room uh you know
(37:15):
assistant, and so I got to seethat.
Otherwise, I don't know ifanyone would have shared that
with me.
Uh, and and it wouldn't havebeen quite as meaningful had I
actually seen it from the clientthemselves.
Every hospital has a list ofclients that you know you're all
going to be thinking about thisas you listen to this.
It's your your very bestclients, the clients that like
literally, if they could go tothe top of their house and sing
(37:36):
your praises to the entireneighborhood, they would do it.
You know, they're they love youto death.
You all have a list of them.
Is it every client?
No, but it's more than one, Iguarantee you, and it's probably
dozens, if not more than that.
What if you like had one ofthose clients every month?
You you hey Andy, listen, you'vebeen such a great client here at
ABC Vet Hospital.
(37:57):
We love you to death.
Um, we feel like you love us.
It would be really helpful ifyou could come in over lunch and
just share with my team for 10or 15 minutes the difference
that they've made in the life ofyou and Scout.
And I'll give you a hundreddollar credit on your uh, you
know, on your account if you dothat.
I'll buy you lunch too, youknow, whatever, right?
(38:19):
And then once a month you had aclient come in and just share
those things in their own words,face to face in front of your
team.
Or get them to record a video orwhatever, just something, right?
So uh it it's a very human wayof showing people like you made
a difference here that mightlead to a higher level of
compassion satisfaction forthem.
SPEAKER_02 (38:38):
I love that because it involves it involves the
clients, right?
I mean, it broadens that impactout to include the team as well
as the clients and the patientsthat are clearly a great source
of compassion satisfaction here.
That's I love all of that.
Yeah.
And I really think that thispaper, it gives language to
(39:01):
something that a lot ofveterinary professionals have
probably felt for a really longtime, right?
That this work can beemotionally difficult and deeply
meaningful at the exact sametime.
And honestly, I appreciate thatthe paper didn't just focus on
what's hurting veterinaryprofessionals, but it asks what
helps to sustain us while we'redoing this meaningful work.
(39:23):
And I think that it's animportant shift because thriving
in veterinary medicine is abouthelping people remain connected
to the meaning, thecontribution, the relationships
and purpose and the very humanmoments that remind us why this
work matters in the first place.
And honestly, I think one of thebiggest takeaways from today's
(39:44):
conversation is that compassionsatisfaction is probably not
something that we should justhope people stumble upon.
That we can create cultures thatsupport it, teams that build it,
leaders that influence it.
And sometimes the smallestmoments between coworkers end up
being the biggest moments thatprotect us the most, which both
(40:07):
feels very scientific and veryveterinary medicine.
Now, you know what other smallmoments can be pretty
influential?
SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
Um I'm gonna take a gander here.
It's the small moments of epicbehavior that happens in a tiny
little state in the southeast ofthe US.
SPEAKER_02 (40:29):
That peninsula, everybody's favorite peninsula,
right?
Florida.
Yep.
And Florida man, I don't know, Idon't know if his moments are
small moments, but epic isdefinitely a way, a way to put
it.
Because the this this headline,I don't know.
I feel like I say this abouteveryone, and I'm like super
excited to share it because it'shilarious, but it's true about
(40:49):
every single headline, and thisone is absolutely no exception.
Florida man arrested for calling911 after his cat was denied
entry to the club.
So a Florida man visited aFlorida nightclub alongside his
kitten, but the officials deniedaccess to the facility.
(41:11):
Now, instead of leaving, thisFlorida man called 911.
And when the cops arrived, hewas uncooperative and continued
calling 911, and he was arrestedfor the misuse of 911.
SPEAKER_00 (41:25):
Um, was the cat also arrested?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Oh, su surely not.
The cat did nothing wrong.
He was just being cute andwanted to go to the club.
SPEAKER_00 (41:33):
That is amazing.
You mean my cat's not on thelist?
SPEAKER_02 (41:37):
Yep, yep.
This is this is a warning to allclub owners.
Put the cat on the list.
So funny.
SPEAKER_00 (41:44):
That is amazing.
I'll bet his cat is namedChairman Meow.
SPEAKER_02 (41:47):
Oh, I'm sure it is.
If it's not, it should be.
SPEAKER_00 (41:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
Oh, good.
Well, listen, thank you forbeing here with me today.
Thanks for letting me bring thisarticle to share and have a
great conversation.
To all of our listeners, thanksfor taking the time to hang out
with us.
Be sure to check out the linksin the show notes and follow the
podcast.
And if you would take a momentto rate it, we would be forever
grateful.
Until next time, bye.
SPEAKER_00 (42:13):
See ya.
SPEAKER_02 (42:17):
Thanks for hanging out with us in the Veterinary
Culture Lab, covered by thescience of workplace well-being,
and brought to you by FlourishedVeterinary Consulting.
If today's episode sparked anidea, made you smile, or got you
thinking, hey, I should totallytry that.
Let us know.
What do you think?
Be sure to subscribe, share, andremember a thriving veterinary
(42:41):
culture is possible, and youdon't have to build it alone.
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