April 30, 2026 • 60 mins
Katie Simkins didn't grow up knowing Jesus.
She didn't grow up in church. She didn't grow up with hope.
At 16, doctors found 11 precancerous growths in her body. A group of strangers prayed over her. The scans came back completely clear, not even scarring.
Weeks later, her brother unexpectedly passed away.
And what followed was a year she calls "the year of darkness."
Walking in physical darkness. Carrying grief, guilt, and the weight of a question she couldn't answer... why would God heal me and then take him?
This conversation wrecked me.
Katie shares the moment she almost gave up. The woman who stopped her in the hallway. The prayer she thought was a goodbye that became a beginning.
And how a thrift store army men set and a stranger's receipt marked "paid in full" is still teaching her kids who God is today.
We talk about: What it looks like to follow Jesus when your friends hate Him. What it means to stop performing your faith and start living it. And why the greatest answer to prayer might not be a changed circumstance... but His presence in the middle of it.
Let's dive in.
I'm Dr. Kimberly Beam Holmes. After a decade transforming marriages at Marriage Helper, I've realized that the greatest tragedy isn't a failed relationship; it's the person who stays stuck and never experiences the fullness of all God intended.
The Way You Show Up is for the high-achiever who is tired of "fine."
We're dismantling the average life to build an exceptional one—using the science of the PIES: Physical, Intellectual, Emotional, and Spiritual health.
If you want to save your marriage, go to Marriage Helper. If you want to master yourself and lead your legacy, stay here.
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SPEAKER_03 (01:28):
My eldest brother had been hit by a car when he
was 14 and I was about 11.
Um and that sort of created theshift in when we stopped going
to church and my mom startedkind of seeking different
routes.
So yeah, he was hit by a carwhile riding his bike without a
helmet at 60 miles an hour.
(01:48):
So he suffered a traumatic braininjury and like multiple
injuries that we weren't sure ifhe was gonna live.
We weren't sure if he was gonnaever walk again.
Um and he did end up living, andwe had no reason to believe that
he wouldn't, you know, live andthrive, although he did need
(02:09):
supports.
He ended up living in assistedliving um as he grew up, got
older, around 18, um, instead ofgoing to college.
And then um when he was just forhis 21st birthday, he
unexpectedly passed away.
Oh yeah.
And it was um just a few weeksbefore that that my mom had
(02:33):
been, you know, living this kindof this, I don't know, exploring
different types of like paths inlife.
And she got invited to a Biblestudy by her neighbor, and she
had kind of put it off a bunchof times, like, this is weird,
this kind of feels like a cult.
I don't know what this is I'mgetting invited to.
And this friend was neighbor waskind of persistent of like
(02:56):
continue continuing to inviteher.
She's like, Okay, I'm gonna gojust to like kind of get her
off, get her to stop asking tome.
Just shut up, just get her offmy back, and you know, and then
she had like made up an excusewhen she was gonna go.
She's like, Okay, I'm gonna likego, and then I'm gonna say I'm
not feeling well after 15minutes and leave.
So she's like, I'll go, and thenit'll be like my exit plan.
(03:19):
And um, my dad had gone withher, and she um she went that
night and she didn't end upleaving.
Um, she ended up likeexperiencing what she what we
now know is like the Holy Spiritat work in the room.
And um she I was going through ahealth battle where they uh
(03:41):
doctors had found 11precancerous growths in my body.
And oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And um so sh she was like, weneed to pray for like her
healing.
Because I was like, where elseis she gonna ask, you know, for
people to to pray for pray forthat?
And they were kind of goingaround like praying for things.
(04:03):
And so they all prayed over mebecause I was gonna go in for a
follow-up appointment to beginstarting treatment.
And um, sorry, I expect to getemotional at this one.
Um and it was like, I think itwas like I can't exact on
(04:24):
timing, but it was at the nextday or like later that week that
I went in for my follow-up, andthey had removed all the pre
precancerous growth for youknow, biopsy, and then we were
gonna begin treatment.
So I was going in for moretesting and another scan, and
the scans came back perfectlyclear.
(04:46):
And like even the doctor waslike, like, there should be
scarring here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Because of like all the removal, like there should
be bleeding here, like thereshould be some evidence of you
know, these precancerous growthsin your body, and they're gone.
And she like used the word likeit's like a like brand new.
It looks brand new.
(05:12):
And like I at the time wasn't abeliever yet, so I was just
like, cool.
You know, I was like 16 at thetime, 16 at the time, and um I
was just like, okay, cool, likethat that's great.
I wasn't thinking much about it.
And my mom was like, Oh mygoodness, like God healed you.
(05:33):
And like that was her moment oflike conversion, of like she
turned over her light to Jesusand was like, like, fully saw
this, like, God use this miracleto bring her to faith.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
And then weeks later, my brother unexpectedly
passed away.
And so for my mom, it was sheknew she says it like I would
not have gotten through that hadI not known the hope of Jesus
that I received weeks prior.
And for me, it was like thistension of like beginning to
like be introduced to the ideaof God in a new way, yeah.
(06:11):
And um struggling with thisalmost survivor's guilt of like,
why would he heal me and thenlike six weeks later take my
brother?
And so um it was a year um fromaround like my birthday,
probably a year, or no, a yearfrom his death that I came to
(06:33):
faith.
But it took that whole year ofkind of like slowly beginning to
see God restore and redeemdespite the impossible, you
know, and see these little likemiracles begin to happen and see
my mom carry hope amidst allodds.
And like that, witnessing thatwas, I believe, like culminating
(06:59):
and leading me to turning overmy life to Jesus.
And I call it that year, it'slike this great in-between to
me.
I just like I I call it my yearof darkness because I was in
such a deep depressiondepression.
I truly feel like all I rememberwas walking in like a physical
darkness.
Um and had carrying this justlike heavy weight of of just
(07:25):
grief with me and like guilt andum a year, fast forward a year
to around when my uh theanniversary of my brother's
death, the small group that hadprayed and that had walked with
our family through that year.
I mean, they were like alsoevidence of God's love.
(07:46):
They came in, brought meals,cared for us, you know, helped
my mom take care of us, youknow, she still had three kids.
Um, and they were there thatnight, and I had been
contemplating my life and beencontemplating like where where
(08:11):
hope was to be found because itjust felt like after like a year
of caring that weight andwalking in darkness couldn't be
found, and um so I had I hadbeen contemplating a life, but
(08:35):
of course, you know, I'm likesix, you know, 17-year-old at
that point.
And I started to even think oflike think through that and
really contemplate it, and Idecided I was done.
And I remember walking throughthe house to go like get
(08:57):
something, and the the smallgroup was in the house.
And one of the women who hadlike really been pouring into me
a lot through that year, she satand she was like, Katie, do you
know that you can get anythingto Jesus?
That he wants to take it, thathe wants to help you carry it.
(09:21):
She's like, and you can justturn your life over to him.
And I don't think anyone everlike spoke that directly to me
like that.
And she was like, all you haveto do is you know, cry out to
him, hand over your life to him.
So these people were evidence oflike Jesus' hands and feet to
(09:45):
me.
And so when this woman spokethat into my life, it was like I
felt like she saw me.
I felt like she saw these thingsI was carrying, like and I
remember going back to my roomand for the first time in my
life using Jesus' name andsaying out loud, Jesus, I can't
do this anymore.
I need you.
(10:07):
I need you, I need you to takeover my life.
And I honestly, when I waspraying it, which just shows
like man, we just we're just solimited in like light of God's
power and love for us.
Like, in my mind, when I waspraying it was like, I'm done,
(10:30):
I'm giving up, and this is meletting you know.
Um, but in that like exactmoment, and this is kind of hard
to explain, except to say thatlike I find things with God are
just sometimes unexplainable.
Um and I wouldn't have known ithad I not been walking in
(10:50):
physical darkness, but thisphysical like light came over me
in this moment.
Actually, suddenly the wor worldwas like illuminated, like my
eyes had been lifted, and thisweight that I'd been carrying
suddenly was lighter, and likein that moment I was like I had
(11:12):
this like undeniable experiencewith what I know is like the
work of a spirit, and I had thislike ownership of like I need to
know who this God is, likethere's something to this Jesus
that I don't understand that Ihave never experienced before.
(11:36):
And going, I think, in talkingabout like growing up not
knowing Jesus and not knowinghope, and then suddenly knowing
it in a moment, like it becomeslike you can't but can no longer
deny it.
It becomes like undeniable.
Like, because I had but walkedin darkness and now new light in
(11:59):
a moment, like I can't unsee it.
Not that hard things didn't keephappening in my life, but and
God obviously never didn't undomy circumstances, you know.
My brother didn't come back tolife, and I still struggled with
(12:19):
pain and grief and and guiltfrom that that I processed
through.
Um but man, what I see time andtime again in scripture is like
despite unchangingcircumstances, God entering in,
Jesus entering in and drawingnear.
And what I continue to learnthrough hard experiences is like
(12:41):
that sometimes is the greatestanswer to prayer, is his
presence.
It is the greatest miracle, ishis nearness to us in the midst
of our pain, not despite it, notnecessarily always clearing the
storm the way that we wish hewould, but entering in to it
with us.
(13:02):
And so that became became thestart of my walk with Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Katie, awesome.
I was like just like, I don'teven know the next question to
ask because it's so powerful.
I I knew your brother had passedaway.
I didn't know that you had hadthe health struggles, I didn't
know like the year of the yearof darkness, I didn't know you
had contemplated like giving uphope and your life and how God
(13:37):
so powerfully met you.
During that year of darkness,when your mom was a Christian,
um, and you saw this small groupof people who like had been
strangers just weeks before youryour brother dying, but now they
were like there and helping andgiving meals and what was like
(13:59):
were you what was your I don'teven know the right word?
Like, did you logically doubt?
Did you emotionally doubt?
Like during that year of yourmom being a Christian, but you
were not yet, what was going onin your head that was kind of
keeping you from it?
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
I mean, I was 16.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
So I think I thought it was strange.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
I think me and my brothers were like, this was
weird.
What are these people doing?
Um, and we had never, you know,been exposed to it.
And um, but it was ev there waslike evidence of like something
is different in this home whenthese people are here.
(14:42):
They truly carried Jesus' likelight into that house into a
very dark season of our life.
Yeah.
You know, when my mom couldn'tget out of bed, and when we were
all, you know, locking ourselvesin our rooms and like struggling
in the pits of grief, andgathered all together as a
(15:04):
family in one room, trying tojust survive, you know.
And it was like there'ssomething different about these
people, and so I I think that'swhat I noticed, and I I felt
drawn to it, honestly.
I felt drawn to that when thesepeople come in, a little bit of
(15:26):
light is shed in our house in away that we desperately need,
and I was desperately longingfor.
I think we all do, I thinkthat's like the deepest longing
of all of us is for for Jesus,for more of him, and so I think
I was experiencing that, I waswitnessing that.
(15:47):
Um, but again, I was 16, so Ithink I was wanting to put up
the front of like, I'm not, I'mnot gonna be easy to like win
away here.
And I'm like, I am trying toavoid at all costs when they
were like coming and doing theirgroup, you know, as the year
progressed and they would come,you know, meet for their small
(16:08):
group in our home.
And I would just kind ofobserve, I would remember kind
of like listening in, and man,such a testimony to small
groups, I think, because even ifyour whole family isn't
participating, like invitingthat into your life, inviting
(16:31):
people who help carry Christ'slove into your life, Christ's
light into your home, like it ispowerful.
I think it impacts your familymore than you might realize,
even if you feel like, oh man,my no one else wants to come, or
my kids are like annoyed by it,or they're resistant, like you
(16:53):
know, just trusting what God isdoing and like the power of Him
at work in your home and in yourlife, and in the people that are
around you forming you andimpacting you.
So, yeah, I would say that waskind of my response to it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
So your eyes were open, there was this
illumination of your world.
What did your life look likethat day forward?
What changed?
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
You know, so it had been a year past.
Um, that following December wasabout two months later, um, was
the my brother's birthday wouldhave been my brother's birthday.
And um being, you know, a yearout now from his death, my mom
was like, I just want to dosomething.
(17:43):
I just want a reason to get upon his birthday.
And she's like, I just wish Icould bake him a cake.
I just could wish I could likebe doing what a normal mom would
do on your kid's birthday.
And um, she got this idea toshe's like, maybe I'll bake
something for a homeless shelterbecause um my brother struggled
a lot in the final years of hislife.
(18:05):
And um he also had a heart forpeople who are homeless, and so
she was just felt drawn to tocare for people who are walking
through homelessness, and thatlong, very long story short
turned into a 501c3 homelessministry that she's now the
(18:26):
founder and director of.
And so um, following quicklyfollowing my you know, coming to
know Jesus, our family startedthis ministry, and that was my
first church.
Was on Sundays, we would gatherwith about a hundred men and
women, some just out of jail,some just off the streets, some
(18:50):
you know, struggling withaddiction.
And we would gather at tablesand we would have a short, very
short sermon, like a 20-minute,and then we would share a meal
together.
And it wasn't like uhnecessarily like uh um serving
the meal as much as we wouldall, it was a buffet, you know,
people would bring food and wewould all just eat together.
(19:12):
And I just remember for thefirst time in my life feeling
like fully accepted when I satat that table, like hearing
people different people from alldifferent walks of life, all
different struggles, and I feltlike I could be, I could be
honest and I could show upexactly as I was.
(19:33):
And so I started to see what thekingdom of God looked like and
what the church was supposed tolook like, and just Jesus'
ministry, like at work and umwhat he called us to.
And so that was my experiencefor several years was like, this
is my church, was the was ahomeless ministry.
(19:54):
And so can as you can imagine,like the shift to start to um
attend churches outside of thatwas difficult for me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
And um, I think I was too critical, probably.
I think I was too criticalbecause I I think I would walk
in thinking, well, they justdon't get it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
They just don't get it.
And if they, you know, if theywere doing what we like
welcoming men and women who arehomeless, or like, what are what
are they doing?
They're all just sitting here.
Why aren't they like going outand doing something or you know,
loving people who are in needwho are right outside the doors?
Because I was living at rightafter high school, I moved to
(20:39):
the city, and so it was likeseeing, you know, on display
needs everywhere.
Um, so it was a struggle for meto begin to build Christian
community.
A lot of my friends in highschool were like, um, they were
having like anarchy parties.
(21:00):
They were having, I mean, theywhen I started sharing my faith
when that shift happened, I waslike the umpire.
Like, I have to tell all ofthem.
Like, they all need to know.
And I was like crazy annoyed.
Like they were like, I mean,they would kind of like I had
friends who would like kind ofcurse me out, like, do not speak
(21:23):
his name in front of me.
Like, do not say that, do notspeak about that to me.
And I was of course, like, Ineed to tell them though, like,
I need to tell them.
And I look back now, I'm like, Iwas probably so annoying and so
overwhelming to like have thisfriend who was like one way the
day before, and then the nextday was like, you have to know
(21:43):
about Jesus.
And um, so I struggled to makethat shift for a while and uh
struggled to move away fromthose friends, but also felt
like I was caught in this like Idon't know if middle space is
the right word, where it waslike starting to see where God
had me planted.
And it was like I'm involved inthis community of men and women
(22:07):
struggling with homelessness andaddiction and um coming out of
jail, and then I'm, you know, inthis community of people who
hate Jesus.
I mean, would say to my face,like, hated him, and like have
parties where like hated him,you know?
And um, I was a musician too atthe time and would get like
(22:29):
invited to play music at theseparties.
So I was like starting to writethese songs about my faith and
God and like playing them andthen about the wording.
Yeah, and which would start likeconversations like what I love
that song.
What is that like about?
Wow.
And so I just started to seeGod's placement of me in those
(22:51):
places.
I'm like, okay, like this isjust where I'm gonna be.
This is just my community, is tojust be the loner.
Like, I'm just gonna be theloner in the midst of like of
people who need Jesus.
And I think, you know, I wasyoung and naive.
Um but over time, you know,started God started to really
(23:12):
convict me about needingcommunity and beginning to kind
of put myself out there to buildstrong Christ centered community
with people my age.
Yeah, people who I could, youknow, um begin.
to yeah like go deep with and dolife with um and yeah that's
(23:36):
that that's actually what led tome meeting Ian was like God's
kind of clear conviction to likeshow up Katie it's time to show
up to like trust that likewhatever criticism you're gonna
have about the church you showup to like that I'm gonna be
there and meet with you and Ineed you to like show up and so
what I love about it is youdidn't shy away I you know I
(24:02):
told you before we started Igrew up in a very Christian
everything Christian familyChristian school Christian
college Christian Christian likeeverything which I don't hate I
don't hate like I I'mappreciative of so many things
um but there's never been a timethat I haven't known about God
(24:23):
or believed God was real there'sdefinitely been times where I've
doubted if God was good.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Like I think that's the way God or uh not God that's
the way that Satan has tried tolike get me.
It's like okay I can't likeconvince you he's not real but I
can convince you all these otherthings about him or try to
convince you like he's not good.
He's not listening he doesn'tlove you.
But one of the things thathonestly I mean even I've been
(24:49):
guilty of I won't even say this.
I know and I think severalChristians uh have been as well
is like oh I I can't go to thatparty because you're not
Christians right but you wentand you played the music right
like you you were likeparticipated I'm gonna go and
and be the light of Jesus in themiddle of a place that doesn't
(25:10):
have it and not being scaredabout that and not being like uh
legalistic about that.
So I grew up in a very myparents weren't this way but the
denomination I grew up in wasvery like you do the right
things so that it was much morework space.
Yeah yeah yeah and so it wouldbe like oh don't get out of line
(25:30):
don't don't get out of line likedon't go to the places where a
lot of guilt is like if youdon't yes yeah much more much
more that um and so I was justthinking like man if I was
invited to one of those partiesin high school like I probably
wouldn't go I probably wouldn'teven have the foresight of like
but what if I could go be thelight of Jesus I think I'd be
(25:52):
like oh like I might get introuble if I go there like I
might yeah that's probably gooddiscernment to not be going to
those and I think that's aninteresting question like
discernment even as no matterwhere someone is in their faith
like discernment versus actuallyliving out the Great Commission
like go and teach others andteach people to be my disciples
(26:16):
and like go out and and I thinkwe do need more Christians who
are willing to go to things thatthey don't necessarily agree
with to be the hands and feet ofJesus in it.
But instead it just seems moreand more that there's just more
division right where we're likeoh I can't be associated with
(26:36):
those people or doing that thingbecause I'm like this untainted
Christian over here.
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
How do you think about that?
SPEAKER_03 (26:46):
What do you think Andy, what do we do?
I know what do we do?
What do we do?
Ian has a saying and I don'tknow if I'll get it right.
So sorry Ian but that it's hardto hate people up close and I
think that's so true that Icould do that because I already
loved them.
Because I mean I'd known thembefore I had this shift and I
(27:07):
became I think because of myexperience coming to faith I
became really in tune to feelingand sensing darkness and light
and I could feel that for themthese people I loved um and I
think about like even Jesus likespeaking to his disciples who
didn't have it all together whowere like from all different
(27:28):
walks of life and um just theway he talked to them like even
near the end like he's lookingat these people who he loves and
he's just like desperate forthem to know him to like carry
him to believe him you know tofollow in his way and I resonate
(27:49):
with that like I I love thesepeople I knew them for for years
and even in their like theiranger towards like me trying to
share my faith it's like oh mygosh I desperately want you to
know this.
Because I knew it and it changedmy life you know so I I think
(28:10):
that is it is it's getting upclose enough to begin to love
people to not just enter in whenit's convenient for trying to
check a box with our faith butto actually build relational
equity enough where there's liketrust built where we we're not
(28:31):
just doing it again to like tryto convert but because like we
desperately want people to knowhim.
And so I think it is when weenter into people's lives in
that way and we come to knowthem and love them we should
long for them to to know Jesus.
But I do think it of course it'slike healthy to have good
(28:54):
boundaries and to I think thatwhat was what I was learning as
well was like I need to have a acore of people who are pouring
into me who are um like mindedin their faith as well outside
of this because I think I for solong thought I'm like I'm gonna
(29:15):
do this on my like I can do thison my own you know I can do this
I can I can be a loner in themidst of people who don't
believe what I believe and umbut I think I realized quickly
that I was like oh I'm like I amlimited and God desires for me
to be in Christ centeredcommunity and so it is like
walking that line and havingthose boundaries of like who are
(29:37):
the people who are you are beingmost um influenced by and then
like who are the people thoughthat like God is placing in
front of you that you can likeget up close with you know and
come to know their stories andback to Ian's thing like stop
(30:02):
hating or stop hat havingassumptions about I think we
hold a lot of assumptions aboutpeople and we keep a distance
that's very true.
Did you doubt any time after youturned 17 I like you I I've
never I've not struggled muchwith like doubting God's
(30:24):
existence um but I definitelyhave had lower expectations of
him of him I've definitelydoubted that he was going to
show up um in the the big thingsthat I faced or in the small
things.
And that's been part of mypractice of like looking back
and remembering and seeing thosetimes when I thought I clearly
(30:47):
like God you couldn't be in thisbecause of how bad things are
and then looking to see theprovision of his promises and
the way that he held the biggerpicture and the way that he came
through in in ways that maybe Iwouldn't have thought or planned
but that were you know so muchbetter.
(31:10):
So yeah I think in that way I Ihave doubted and I still
struggle when hard things happenit's like are you gonna show up
God?
What I I think what I've learnedis that I don't limit God I I
think I've I've struggled withsome of the guilt of like well
(31:32):
if I'm not believing he's gonnado it then maybe he just won't
do it.
Yeah maybe he's gonna like withbe a withholding God.
Like if I don't have enoughfaith if I don't have enough
faith yeah if I'm not if I'm notconfident in him that he's gonna
do it yeah then maybe he won'tand then I see him and there's
abundant love for for us for medo it even though I doubted even
(31:56):
though I had lower expectationsum just such a reminder of his
abundant love for us that we donot thwart his plans that we do
not limit him by our lack offaith but that where our faith
lacks like his faith providesand fills in and finishes the
(32:17):
race for us on our behalf.
I know we were talking lastnight too about this like I
think sometimes I want to seethe fruit of things I want to
see the promise and we don'talways get to see it.
It's not like I'm coming toterms over experiences in my
life where I'm like it's notalways mine to see it is mine to
(32:41):
be faithful to the things he'sputting in front of me and trust
him with the greater picture andtrust that he holds it trust
that he knows what he's doingand that if the end fruit or the
end promise brings him moreglory like is that worth it and
I I think I want I keep comingback to that question in my life
(33:02):
too like is it worth it and yesI want my answer to always be
yes so yeah I think in that wayis how I've doubted not his
existence but just like are yougonna are you gonna come through
(33:22):
on this one?
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah.
What are the practices you havethat keep you grounded and able
to just so easily go back tolike this is what like this is
who God is this is what God saysthis is when I even when I'm
doubting that he's good this iswhat I can believe instead like
(33:47):
what is what is your dailyweekly monthly rhythms that
really help you stay grounded.
SPEAKER_03 (33:53):
I mean I'm a mom with three little boys so I mean
honestly my prayer lifesometimes happens a lot out loud
at the kitchen sink in our goingum when I was pregnant with my
last baby I've had reallydifficult high risk pregnancies
and so extremely sick to thepoint of needing to go to the
(34:14):
hospital a few times throughoutit and I just remember praying
daily like out loud to Jesus andhonestly my my prayers were
often so simple because I was sosick.
It was just like Jesus help me Ineed you and I remember my four
year old at the time was likemama are you gonna keep asking
Jesus for help like after thebaby comes and I was like yes I
(34:40):
am but like I'm not gonna alwaysbe this sick hopefully um and so
I think I felt guilty.
I remember looking back and likefeeling guilty about like being
so desperate in that time thatthat my kids were seeing my
faith in this desperate place.
(35:00):
But then when he came to me itwas just like such a reminder of
like the impact a witness of ourlife to other people and the way
that we practice our faith likein the desperate seasons.
When we're just calling out tohim and I think the other thing
has been just the practice of Imean I think I just pray all the
(35:21):
time I feel like I'm just likealways talking to always talking
to him and remembering to liketurn to him to fix my eyes on
him and the practice I've beendoing is um just looking to
trace his hand.
So I recently did this thingwhere I drew out a line of my
life from you know when I wasborn to now and just placing all
(35:41):
the significant moments likehigh and low throughout my life
just kind of sitting with thoseand then looking back and seeing
to look for God.
And so that's been my practiceof when I'm in scripture just
like continuing to look for him.
And I think it's a practice wesee in early believers too is
this like ritual remembrance,this ability to when we're in
(36:05):
seasons of long waiting andsometimes we see in scripture
very long waiting where God isall but silent on a promise that
they're waiting on this practiceto look back, to turn our eyes
back towards Jesus and to lookback at these stories these like
(36:27):
stories we take for granted oftestimonies of God's
faithfulness despite all oddsand so that's been a practice
I've been doing of justcontinuing to look back and see
and trace God's hand um that issomething I'm I've been really
passionate about especially inwalking through some recent
(36:48):
circumstances in my own lifewhere like I really need to
remember that you are the sameGod not only who's faithful in
my life years prior but who wasfaithful thousands of years ago
you know who was faithful in thestories of of these of these
early believers and to see yourhand at work.
(37:11):
And so I think that's been a bigpractice for me.
And then the with ministry toowith the Monday night like
thinking about discipling acommunity of women and helping
them live that out it's been soum impactful for me too to
really think about how do wemove beyond Sundays?
How do we move from the place ofreceiving God's word to actually
(37:35):
not just responding andreflecting on it but like
applying it living it out seeingit start to bear fruit in our
lives and our weeks and thein-between of Sundays has become
a passion point for me as well.
And so that has become a bigpart of my practice too of like
taking what we're learning as achurch and just really digesting
(37:57):
it reflecting it researching andbeing in God's word being in
prayer and like okay God how dowe how do we move this well and
so those are some of the thingsI've currently been doing to
just remain with my eyes fixedon him.
I love that do you have anypractices with your boys we've
(38:21):
been reading this book calledthe Book of Belonging that's
really beautiful have you heardit.
So I love reading those Biblestories.
In the morning Ian reads there'slike he would read like a
devotional in the morning andthen at night we usually we'll
pray but honestly just likeconversations in the car on the
(38:42):
way to and from and then at likethe dinner table we've made
dinner like a pretty like we areat the table together and we're
praying and we're talking aboutour days and just like those
opportunities to point them backto God and help them see God and
and just be pointing out God inthe going like my son um I wrote
(39:07):
about this the other day becauseI was like God's just so cool
how he just like shows up whenyou least expect him we were at
the thrift store and my son hadof course wandered to the toy
aisle and found this like bin ofarmy men it's like plastic
Tupperware.
This is like a ChristmasTupperware full army men that
was like three dollars which Icould have bought for him but
we've tried to get in the habitof like not buying things that
(39:29):
are non-essentials you knowoutside of birthdays and stuff.
So they have allowance and I'mlike do you is that something
you want to spend your money onhe's like I really want it but I
guess I guess I don't need it.
And so we like carefully put itback on the shelf and he was
like like it's like he likewanted to remember where it was
and we walked away and we'regoing to get some school clothes
(39:51):
um per school event they hadover in the clothes section and
like moments later this old manwalks up with the bin this
little tupperware of army menand marked on it was the receipt
that it had been paid for.
And he hands it to Owen he'slike I just want you to remember
that God loves you and he's goodand he's still at work doing
(40:14):
good things in this world.
I was like I'm kind of likecrying in the like thrift store
aisle I would be too but it waslike this moment for me to like
I felt like I talked to Ownonstop that day it was like oh
do you see God's goodness do yousee how he loves you do you see
how he meets your needs like andjust that that like mark of like
(40:35):
paid in full even when we didn'tdeserve it you know and it was
like even though he didn't buythis or like choose to get this
thing God provided it anywayjust because he's so good
because he's so abundant and sothose just those little
opportunities where like we seeGod and like we can tune in and
(40:55):
I feel like my boys probablyteach me more about Jesus than I
teach them sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Like my middle son the other day was taking
pictures of like light beams inthe house and he's like look mom
God keeps showing up God keepsshowing up and you know I'm
doing the dishes I'm like butthen I'm like drawn in I'm like
yeah like that's so cool andjust those moments to tune in
and remember to like to look forGod in like the little light
(41:26):
beam breaking through a shadowum and just have that awe and
wonder like to be reinvited intothat through my kids honestly I
feel like they do morediscipling of me than I do of
them sometimes but that's I lovethat so when I was in ninth
grade so I was a pastor's kidgrowing up my dad was a minister
(41:49):
for the majority of my life umand I remember one yeah okay
yeah and uh the I remember onetime someone who who was like a
mentor in my youth group andthey had been a pastor's kid and
they said do you ever feel likeyou're just living in a glass
house because there's you'relike your dad's always on stage
(42:10):
your family's always beingtalked about like there's an
expectation of you at youthgroup there's you know in like
your family everyone feels likethey know and there's this it's
unique it's unique do you everfeel like you're living in a
glass house oh for sure yeah Ithink there's some benefit to
(42:36):
not the not knowing that I'vehad growing up of like when I
was getting married to Ian I'mjust like well he's a pastor
that's interesting we'll see howthat works out um and I just had
no idea what that fully I don'tthink I fully understood what
that was gonna mean to like wewere doing ministry together and
(42:57):
I was excited like we're gonnado ministry together and um I
had this a pastor's wife whilewe were dating speaking to my
life and just say you know youare you are first God's daughter
you're Katie you're not Pastor'swife you are that is one of
(43:18):
gonna be one of your things butlike remember who you are and
don't lose yourself and don'tlet anyone tell you like who
you're supposed to be um and thebridge has just been so good at
at letting um staff spouses andme just kind of like follow
God's leading and calling andplacement and not force anything
(43:42):
into like where I I should beserving or how much.
SPEAKER_03 (43:47):
And so it's just been very natural to get to to
pray and let God lead that.
But certainly you feel the likepressure to and responsibility
to represent what I I thinksometimes people look to
especially I mean Ian more thanme even of like wow you know
(44:08):
this like oh you must be so holyyou must have it all together
and I'm just one of those peopleI'm like I don't don't have it
all together.
And so I think it's helped inthat not knowing that I was
supposed to have a plasteredsmile on my face and have it all
together because I had friendswhen I was getting married to
Ian be like you are so lucky.
I have always wanted to marry apastor and I was like is that a
(44:30):
thing oh that people were likewent to school to like I'm gonna
marry a pastor and that likepastor's wife is like my my
plan.
And so I was like I didn't knowI'm like that's great.
I just love Ian and there's thislike I'm excited about like okay
God has him doing ministry and Ilove mini ministry people and um
(44:54):
so I think that's helped butcertainly I'm sure I've been a
disappointment to people of likeI'm like why is she always a hot
mess?
No kids are just you knowrunning around and she's like
her hair I don't know.
But I I think I've had seasonswhere I've certainly been
tempted to try to polish it upand then quickly learn like
(45:18):
nope, don't get it polishedGod's gonna quickly reveal like
the the real story.
So yeah I think Certainly feltthat I I think as a mom, I now
feel even more protective andconcerned for my boys.
And something really stuck withme that I heard once is that the
(45:40):
greatest deterrent to faith forspecifically ministry kids is
hypocrisy in the home.
Yeah.
So it's like if I'm me or Ian isa polished version out here, and
then we look really different athome, like our greatest
ministry, our home, our ourfamily, our kids, like we'll see
(46:02):
that.
We'll sense that.
And certainly they call us outall the time and things.
And it's like it's it's so umformative and important and to
like continue to be held aposture of like humility in that
in front of them and in front ofother people.
(46:25):
Just like because if if otherpeople see this image of a
perfect perfect person who's hasit all together, it's like where
is there room to not have itall?
Where's room to not have it alltogether and like still be
following in the way of Jesus?
Yeah.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
So still navigating and figuring it out, I feel
still learning as I go, but justgrateful for the the bridge, the
church that we're at right now,and just the way that they've
allowed me to to lean into thethings that I I do feel God
calling me to do and giving meroom to cast vision for those
things and run with thosethings.
SPEAKER_02 (47:08):
And um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
I mean, y'all have to be hit with spiritual warfare
harder than most because of thepositions, like Satan wants
nothing more than pastors andtheir marriages to fall apart,
and so that everyone else in thechurch will be like, oh, like
(47:33):
they can't do it like we caneither, or just any other type
of spiritual warfare, like itthen to term from their faith,
whatever.
Like there's a reason in the NewTestament, it's like, listen, if
you're gonna be preachers orteachers, like this is gonna be
harder.
Yeah.
And and so I pray for y'alloften just because I know the
(47:54):
pressure.
Not I mean everyone needs it,but but just because I'm like, I
y'all hand, I think that y'allare, I think y'all so
beautifully encompass so many,like you're so refreshing as
people and relatable and humble.
Like for like for the listeners,Ian's been on a couple of times,
(48:14):
but we hadn't like me and myhusband had no idea.
We love the fact that we had noidea that Ian had however many
hundreds of thousands offollowers on Instagram.
Like from the pulpit, you wouldnever know.
You'd never you'd barely know hehas a book that's gonna be
coming out, right?
Like he's just y'all both are sohumble.
(48:36):
And I, and from being in thechurch world, like where my dad
was a pastor and you know, justbeing around pastors, I think
the all like the constantstruggle is like to it turning
into performance.
SPEAKER_03 (48:47):
Yes, yes, right.
SPEAKER_01 (48:48):
And and so it's just like God keep them, like just
keep them, just like yes, keepthem because I know that the
spiritual warfare is like turnedup for your family because of
what God has called y'all to do.
And I think you do itbeautifully.
SPEAKER_03 (49:08):
Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
Well, you're wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (49:11):
I know, and it's been something I I think about a
lot because you see now withlike the social media pastor,
like the amount of people whoare have platform to speak about
Jesus, and like there, I thinkthere can be good drawn from
that.
Like it could can be used forreal good.
Um, but also there's this liketemptation to that I think we
(49:33):
need to be careful of where ifwe're speaking more passionately
to and about Jesus from aplatform or in public than we
are in the private of our home,that relationship is more
performance-based than it ispersonal, and that's where it's
a red flag, like it's yeah, um,to be concerned.
(49:58):
And I mean, it's something thatof course we have to like fight
against and pray against.
And certainly I there are manydays where I'm like, well, Satan
get behind me, you know.
And I think we both are whereit's like, yeah, he will when
God is up to something good andhe wants to to move, like you
(50:19):
will see, you will see the workof Satan.
He's he's gonna be move, be moveon the move.
And so I think it's good to beaware of that and not try to
like pretend like it doesn'texist, but to be prepared for
it.
(50:39):
Um, so certainly, I mean, we goto therapy and like we we work
on our marriage, and it'ssomething that we're like, we
know, like we this has to bestrong for in order for us to be
able to authentically speak intothe lives of other people's
lives and marriages, like wedon't have to have it perfectly
(51:01):
all together, but we do have tobe rooted in Christ.
Like we do have to um be gettingthat right, yeah.
As far as like yeah, where weare rooted from and um our our
heart posture too.
When you when you get on a stageor on a you're on a platform,
(51:22):
like you really have to checkthe intent of your heart and be
praying before you're posting,you know, seeking God before
you're like doing a a mic dropor even writing a sermon.
Like if you're not seeking Godon that, um yeah, that that
should that would be a concernto me.
(51:44):
So it's something we don't takelightly and something that we
yeah I don't know that we getperfectly all the time to like
we are human, but we certainlylike are constantly working
against that, like okay, don'tlet us fall to that.
Um and Ian has certainly invitedme into that too, like as you
(52:08):
know, like you said, I mean, ashis followers grew, it was I
remember him like telling me,like, hey, don't let me change,
like, don't let me like fallinto something that I don't want
to.
And um, I think we're able to bethat kind of grounding for each
other, too.
(52:29):
So just kind of like the checkof like, hey, I know you and you
you can most see a person athome, there you can see their
true selves at home and howthings are affecting them and
the weight we carry fromministry and like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:44):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:46):
I love, I think often about what John Maxwell
said once about uh someone wastelling him when he was younger,
he was like, God has given you agift, but that means two things.
Number one, it's not you, andnumber two, it's a gift, like
for you to use to his glory andto give back, but never once
(53:08):
think this is you.
Yeah.
And I just love that heartposture of like, okay, God,
whatever gift it is that you'vegiven me, you, like anyone
listening, help us to rememberit's not about us and to like
use it to your glory.
Yeah.
To our to our best extent.
(53:29):
Okay, I have two final questionsfor you.
Okay, yeah.
Uh so what is the name of thispodcast?
Is The Way You Show Up.
When you think about the way youwant to show up, what is it?
SPEAKER_03 (53:45):
I mean, auth authenticity is a huge value to
me.
So I I always want to show upauthentically as I am.
Um and I I want to be someonewho consistently points back to
God.
One of my life verses lately,it's been Psalm 107.
So give thanks to the Lord forHe is good, his mercy endures
(54:06):
forever, and let the redeemed ofthe Lord say so.
And other translations says letthem tell their story.
And so, just in experiences I'vebeen through, I'm like, I don't
want to keep quiet about whatGod's done in my life because I
have had seasons where I've beenmore introverted and reserved
and wanting to take the backseat rather than speaking up and
(54:30):
sharing what God's at workdoing.
And so, yeah, I want to show uptrusting like every day what God
has placed in front of me andthen the opportunity to like
reveal more of him, whether it'sjust like to my kids and my
family or to someone in passing,like yeah, I guess that would be
(54:50):
my hardest that I would I wouldshow up authentic and in a way
that um points back is a is alife that points back to him,
living a life that points backto Jesus in the hard and the
good.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:08):
What are the things that you think help you to
continue to show up that way?
SPEAKER_03 (55:14):
That's a good question.
I think just being reallyhumbled by by life, by like the
storms of life and by like thewaves of like having to get up
again or um just seeing beingjust humbled by God's abundant
love for me and grace to me.
(55:37):
Um I I think that allows me toremember like it is not about
me, and it is like I saidearlier, like it is not always
mine to see the fruit.
Um and yeah, simply that likeevery day I have an opportunity
to like point people back to whoGod is and what he's done in my
(56:01):
life, and um yeah, I think thatthat humbling for sure has like
allowed me to be like, yeah, butI can show up as I am and not
keep quiet about what God's donein my life.
Um because I've learned throughsome hard, really hard
circumstances that every daymatters.
(56:22):
And if I'm only given today,like what am I gonna do with it?
So I think that requires a lotof grace sometimes for myself of
like I can get really hard onmyself at the end of a day, like
oh I gotta stop today.
I didn't I didn't get it allright today.
And then it's just rememberinglike his grace that washes over
(56:44):
us at the end of every day, likeokay.
But then I I can turn back tohim and tomorrow's another day.
Um so yeah, I think ultimatelyjust that the humbling process
of life has allowed me to likeslowly learn to just show up
(57:06):
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (57:09):
Katie, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (57:11):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (57:12):
Amazing, you have an amazing story, an amazing
witness for Christ and what'shappened in your life.
And I thoroughly enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you so much for talkingwith me today.
SPEAKER_03 (57:24):
Me too.
It was such an honor.
So honored to be here and get toshare about God, what he's doing
in my life.
So thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (57:32):
Honestly, y'all, I typically have three key
takeaways, and here's somethingyou should do.
I'm a little bit at a lossbecause I believe that the story
that Katie shared with us today,several of the stories that
Katie shared with us today,really speak for themselves.
I am leaving this conversationpersonally thinking about two
(57:53):
key things.
The first one is where are thethumbprints of God in my life?
In what ways has God shown upfor me, for my family, and how
can I do a better job ofremembering those things,
writing those things down,having those be the stacked
(58:14):
stones that I remember whentimes get hard and when times
are good.
Y'all, I'm the kind of personthat when I'm reading scripture,
I typically, I can't believe I'mabout to say this, I typically
like skip over the parts thattalk about like, oh, praise the
Lord, especially in the Psalms.
But even yesterday I was readingPsalm 34.1 and or I was reading
(58:35):
all of Psalms 34.
And as I skipped forward, I waslike, oh, I love the part about
tasting and seeing that the Lordis good, about him being with
those and overcoming all oftheir those with who love him
and overcoming all of theirfears.
But I realized I kept skippingover the first three verses.
And so I actually wrote thefirst verse of Psalm 34 on my
hand.
(58:56):
I will extol the Lord at alltimes.
His praise will always be on mylips.
I do such a bad job at this thatI literally just wrote the first
letter of each of those words onmy hand, and I have been
rewriting it and rewriting itand rewriting it because I want
to do a better job of extollingthe Lord at all times.
(59:19):
His praise will always be on mylips.
And let that be the thing that Iam meditating on right now.
So that's number one.
My second key takeaway that Ihave from that I am thinking of
from this conversation is makingsure that what I'm doing is not
coming from a place ofperformance, which can be very
(59:40):
hard, but is coming from a placeof rootedness and praise and
following what God wants me todo before I shoot an episode,
before I post on Instagram,whatever it might be, and even
the things people don't seebefore I go home, before I go
work out, before whatever itmight be, what is the mindset
(01:00:04):
and heart posture that I'mtaking into that?
And honestly, that's something Ineeded to be reminded of today.
So I'm thankful for my friendKatie.
I would love to know your keytakeaways from today's episode
as well.
If you're watching on YouTube,leave a comment below.
Share this with a friend whowill be edified from hearing
(01:00:26):
this conversation today.
Until next week, stay strong.
My eldest brother had been hit by a car when he
was 14 and I was about 11.
Um and that sort of created theshift in when we stopped going
to church and my mom startedkind of seeking different
routes.
So yeah, he was hit by a carwhile riding his bike without a
helmet at 60 miles an hour.
(01:48):
So he suffered a traumatic braininjury and like multiple
injuries that we weren't sure ifhe was gonna live.
We weren't sure if he was gonnaever walk again.
Um and he did end up living, andwe had no reason to believe that
he wouldn't, you know, live andthrive, although he did need
(02:09):
supports.
He ended up living in assistedliving um as he grew up, got
older, around 18, um, instead ofgoing to college.
And then um when he was just forhis 21st birthday, he
unexpectedly passed away.
Oh yeah.
And it was um just a few weeksbefore that that my mom had
(02:33):
been, you know, living this kindof this, I don't know, exploring
different types of like paths inlife.
And she got invited to a Biblestudy by her neighbor, and she
had kind of put it off a bunchof times, like, this is weird,
this kind of feels like a cult.
I don't know what this is I'mgetting invited to.
And this friend was neighbor waskind of persistent of like
(02:56):
continue continuing to inviteher.
She's like, Okay, I'm gonna gojust to like kind of get her
off, get her to stop asking tome.
Just shut up, just get her offmy back, and you know, and then
she had like made up an excusewhen she was gonna go.
She's like, Okay, I'm gonna likego, and then I'm gonna say I'm
not feeling well after 15minutes and leave.
So she's like, I'll go, and thenit'll be like my exit plan.
(03:19):
And um, my dad had gone withher, and she um she went that
night and she didn't end upleaving.
Um, she ended up likeexperiencing what she what we
now know is like the Holy Spiritat work in the room.
And um she I was going through ahealth battle where they uh
(03:41):
doctors had found 11precancerous growths in my body.
And oh my gosh.
Yeah.
And um so sh she was like, weneed to pray for like her
healing.
Because I was like, where elseis she gonna ask, you know, for
people to to pray for pray forthat?
And they were kind of goingaround like praying for things.
(04:03):
And so they all prayed over mebecause I was gonna go in for a
follow-up appointment to beginstarting treatment.
And um, sorry, I expect to getemotional at this one.
Um and it was like, I think itwas like I can't exact on
(04:24):
timing, but it was at the nextday or like later that week that
I went in for my follow-up, andthey had removed all the pre
precancerous growth for youknow, biopsy, and then we were
gonna begin treatment.
So I was going in for moretesting and another scan, and
the scans came back perfectlyclear.
(04:46):
And like even the doctor waslike, like, there should be
scarring here.
SPEAKER_01 (04:50):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03 (04:51):
Because of like all the removal, like there should
be bleeding here, like thereshould be some evidence of you
know, these precancerous growthsin your body, and they're gone.
And she like used the word likeit's like a like brand new.
It looks brand new.
(05:12):
And like I at the time wasn't abeliever yet, so I was just
like, cool.
You know, I was like 16 at thetime, 16 at the time, and um I
was just like, okay, cool, likethat that's great.
I wasn't thinking much about it.
And my mom was like, Oh mygoodness, like God healed you.
(05:33):
And like that was her moment oflike conversion, of like she
turned over her light to Jesusand was like, like, fully saw
this, like, God use this miracleto bring her to faith.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (05:46):
And then weeks later, my brother unexpectedly
passed away.
And so for my mom, it was sheknew she says it like I would
not have gotten through that hadI not known the hope of Jesus
that I received weeks prior.
And for me, it was like thistension of like beginning to
like be introduced to the ideaof God in a new way, yeah.
(06:11):
And um struggling with thisalmost survivor's guilt of like,
why would he heal me and thenlike six weeks later take my
brother?
And so um it was a year um fromaround like my birthday,
probably a year, or no, a yearfrom his death that I came to
(06:33):
faith.
But it took that whole year ofkind of like slowly beginning to
see God restore and redeemdespite the impossible, you
know, and see these little likemiracles begin to happen and see
my mom carry hope amidst allodds.
And like that, witnessing thatwas, I believe, like culminating
(06:59):
and leading me to turning overmy life to Jesus.
And I call it that year, it'slike this great in-between to
me.
I just like I I call it my yearof darkness because I was in
such a deep depressiondepression.
I truly feel like all I rememberwas walking in like a physical
darkness.
Um and had carrying this justlike heavy weight of of just
(07:25):
grief with me and like guilt andum a year, fast forward a year
to around when my uh theanniversary of my brother's
death, the small group that hadprayed and that had walked with
our family through that year.
I mean, they were like alsoevidence of God's love.
(07:46):
They came in, brought meals,cared for us, you know, helped
my mom take care of us, youknow, she still had three kids.
Um, and they were there thatnight, and I had been
contemplating my life and beencontemplating like where where
(08:11):
hope was to be found because itjust felt like after like a year
of caring that weight andwalking in darkness couldn't be
found, and um so I had I hadbeen contemplating a life, but
(08:35):
of course, you know, I'm likesix, you know, 17-year-old at
that point.
And I started to even think oflike think through that and
really contemplate it, and Idecided I was done.
And I remember walking throughthe house to go like get
(08:57):
something, and the the smallgroup was in the house.
And one of the women who hadlike really been pouring into me
a lot through that year, she satand she was like, Katie, do you
know that you can get anythingto Jesus?
That he wants to take it, thathe wants to help you carry it.
(09:21):
She's like, and you can justturn your life over to him.
And I don't think anyone everlike spoke that directly to me
like that.
And she was like, all you haveto do is you know, cry out to
him, hand over your life to him.
So these people were evidence oflike Jesus' hands and feet to
(09:45):
me.
And so when this woman spokethat into my life, it was like I
felt like she saw me.
I felt like she saw these thingsI was carrying, like and I
remember going back to my roomand for the first time in my
life using Jesus' name andsaying out loud, Jesus, I can't
do this anymore.
I need you.
(10:07):
I need you, I need you to takeover my life.
And I honestly, when I waspraying it, which just shows
like man, we just we're just solimited in like light of God's
power and love for us.
Like, in my mind, when I waspraying it was like, I'm done,
(10:30):
I'm giving up, and this is meletting you know.
Um, but in that like exactmoment, and this is kind of hard
to explain, except to say thatlike I find things with God are
just sometimes unexplainable.
Um and I wouldn't have known ithad I not been walking in
(10:50):
physical darkness, but thisphysical like light came over me
in this moment.
Actually, suddenly the wor worldwas like illuminated, like my
eyes had been lifted, and thisweight that I'd been carrying
suddenly was lighter, and likein that moment I was like I had
(11:12):
this like undeniable experiencewith what I know is like the
work of a spirit, and I had thislike ownership of like I need to
know who this God is, likethere's something to this Jesus
that I don't understand that Ihave never experienced before.
(11:36):
And going, I think, in talkingabout like growing up not
knowing Jesus and not knowinghope, and then suddenly knowing
it in a moment, like it becomeslike you can't but can no longer
deny it.
It becomes like undeniable.
Like, because I had but walkedin darkness and now new light in
(11:59):
a moment, like I can't unsee it.
Not that hard things didn't keephappening in my life, but and
God obviously never didn't undomy circumstances, you know.
My brother didn't come back tolife, and I still struggled with
(12:19):
pain and grief and and guiltfrom that that I processed
through.
Um but man, what I see time andtime again in scripture is like
despite unchangingcircumstances, God entering in,
Jesus entering in and drawingnear.
And what I continue to learnthrough hard experiences is like
(12:41):
that sometimes is the greatestanswer to prayer, is his
presence.
It is the greatest miracle, ishis nearness to us in the midst
of our pain, not despite it, notnecessarily always clearing the
storm the way that we wish hewould, but entering in to it
with us.
(13:02):
And so that became became thestart of my walk with Jesus.
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
Katie, awesome.
I was like just like, I don'teven know the next question to
ask because it's so powerful.
I I knew your brother had passedaway.
I didn't know that you had hadthe health struggles, I didn't
know like the year of the yearof darkness, I didn't know you
had contemplated like giving uphope and your life and how God
(13:37):
so powerfully met you.
During that year of darkness,when your mom was a Christian,
um, and you saw this small groupof people who like had been
strangers just weeks before youryour brother dying, but now they
were like there and helping andgiving meals and what was like
(13:59):
were you what was your I don'teven know the right word?
Like, did you logically doubt?
Did you emotionally doubt?
Like during that year of yourmom being a Christian, but you
were not yet, what was going onin your head that was kind of
keeping you from it?
SPEAKER_03 (14:17):
I mean, I was 16.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:19):
So I think I thought it was strange.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:22):
I think me and my brothers were like, this was
weird.
What are these people doing?
Um, and we had never, you know,been exposed to it.
And um, but it was ev there waslike evidence of like something
is different in this home whenthese people are here.
(14:42):
They truly carried Jesus' likelight into that house into a
very dark season of our life.
Yeah.
You know, when my mom couldn'tget out of bed, and when we were
all, you know, locking ourselvesin our rooms and like struggling
in the pits of grief, andgathered all together as a
(15:04):
family in one room, trying tojust survive, you know.
And it was like there'ssomething different about these
people, and so I I think that'swhat I noticed, and I I felt
drawn to it, honestly.
I felt drawn to that when thesepeople come in, a little bit of
(15:26):
light is shed in our house in away that we desperately need,
and I was desperately longingfor.
I think we all do, I thinkthat's like the deepest longing
of all of us is for for Jesus,for more of him, and so I think
I was experiencing that, I waswitnessing that.
(15:47):
Um, but again, I was 16, so Ithink I was wanting to put up
the front of like, I'm not, I'mnot gonna be easy to like win
away here.
And I'm like, I am trying toavoid at all costs when they
were like coming and doing theirgroup, you know, as the year
progressed and they would come,you know, meet for their small
(16:08):
group in our home.
And I would just kind ofobserve, I would remember kind
of like listening in, and man,such a testimony to small
groups, I think, because even ifyour whole family isn't
participating, like invitingthat into your life, inviting
(16:31):
people who help carry Christ'slove into your life, Christ's
light into your home, like it ispowerful.
I think it impacts your familymore than you might realize,
even if you feel like, oh man,my no one else wants to come, or
my kids are like annoyed by it,or they're resistant, like you
(16:53):
know, just trusting what God isdoing and like the power of Him
at work in your home and in yourlife, and in the people that are
around you forming you andimpacting you.
So, yeah, I would say that waskind of my response to it.
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
So your eyes were open, there was this
illumination of your world.
What did your life look likethat day forward?
What changed?
SPEAKER_03 (17:22):
You know, so it had been a year past.
Um, that following December wasabout two months later, um, was
the my brother's birthday wouldhave been my brother's birthday.
And um being, you know, a yearout now from his death, my mom
was like, I just want to dosomething.
(17:43):
I just want a reason to get upon his birthday.
And she's like, I just wish Icould bake him a cake.
I just could wish I could likebe doing what a normal mom would
do on your kid's birthday.
And um, she got this idea toshe's like, maybe I'll bake
something for a homeless shelterbecause um my brother struggled
a lot in the final years of hislife.
(18:05):
And um he also had a heart forpeople who are homeless, and so
she was just felt drawn to tocare for people who are walking
through homelessness, and thatlong, very long story short
turned into a 501c3 homelessministry that she's now the
(18:26):
founder and director of.
And so um, following quicklyfollowing my you know, coming to
know Jesus, our family startedthis ministry, and that was my
first church.
Was on Sundays, we would gatherwith about a hundred men and
women, some just out of jail,some just off the streets, some
(18:50):
you know, struggling withaddiction.
And we would gather at tablesand we would have a short, very
short sermon, like a 20-minute,and then we would share a meal
together.
And it wasn't like uhnecessarily like uh um serving
the meal as much as we wouldall, it was a buffet, you know,
people would bring food and wewould all just eat together.
(19:12):
And I just remember for thefirst time in my life feeling
like fully accepted when I satat that table, like hearing
people different people from alldifferent walks of life, all
different struggles, and I feltlike I could be, I could be
honest and I could show upexactly as I was.
(19:33):
And so I started to see what thekingdom of God looked like and
what the church was supposed tolook like, and just Jesus'
ministry, like at work and umwhat he called us to.
And so that was my experiencefor several years was like, this
is my church, was the was ahomeless ministry.
(19:54):
And so can as you can imagine,like the shift to start to um
attend churches outside of thatwas difficult for me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:07):
And um, I think I was too critical, probably.
I think I was too criticalbecause I I think I would walk
in thinking, well, they justdon't get it.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (20:17):
They just don't get it.
And if they, you know, if theywere doing what we like
welcoming men and women who arehomeless, or like, what are what
are they doing?
They're all just sitting here.
Why aren't they like going outand doing something or you know,
loving people who are in needwho are right outside the doors?
Because I was living at rightafter high school, I moved to
(20:39):
the city, and so it was likeseeing, you know, on display
needs everywhere.
Um, so it was a struggle for meto begin to build Christian
community.
A lot of my friends in highschool were like, um, they were
having like anarchy parties.
(21:00):
They were having, I mean, theywhen I started sharing my faith
when that shift happened, I waslike the umpire.
Like, I have to tell all ofthem.
Like, they all need to know.
And I was like crazy annoyed.
Like they were like, I mean,they would kind of like I had
friends who would like kind ofcurse me out, like, do not speak
(21:23):
his name in front of me.
Like, do not say that, do notspeak about that to me.
And I was of course, like, Ineed to tell them though, like,
I need to tell them.
And I look back now, I'm like, Iwas probably so annoying and so
overwhelming to like have thisfriend who was like one way the
day before, and then the nextday was like, you have to know
(21:43):
about Jesus.
And um, so I struggled to makethat shift for a while and uh
struggled to move away fromthose friends, but also felt
like I was caught in this like Idon't know if middle space is
the right word, where it waslike starting to see where God
had me planted.
And it was like I'm involved inthis community of men and women
(22:07):
struggling with homelessness andaddiction and um coming out of
jail, and then I'm, you know, inthis community of people who
hate Jesus.
I mean, would say to my face,like, hated him, and like have
parties where like hated him,you know?
And um, I was a musician too atthe time and would get like
(22:29):
invited to play music at theseparties.
So I was like starting to writethese songs about my faith and
God and like playing them andthen about the wording.
Yeah, and which would start likeconversations like what I love
that song.
What is that like about?
Wow.
And so I just started to seeGod's placement of me in those
(22:51):
places.
I'm like, okay, like this isjust where I'm gonna be.
This is just my community, is tojust be the loner.
Like, I'm just gonna be theloner in the midst of like of
people who need Jesus.
And I think, you know, I wasyoung and naive.
Um but over time, you know,started God started to really
(23:12):
convict me about needingcommunity and beginning to kind
of put myself out there to buildstrong Christ centered community
with people my age.
Yeah, people who I could, youknow, um begin.
to yeah like go deep with and dolife with um and yeah that's
(23:36):
that that's actually what led tome meeting Ian was like God's
kind of clear conviction to likeshow up Katie it's time to show
up to like trust that likewhatever criticism you're gonna
have about the church you showup to like that I'm gonna be
there and meet with you and Ineed you to like show up and so
what I love about it is youdidn't shy away I you know I
(24:02):
told you before we started Igrew up in a very Christian
everything Christian familyChristian school Christian
college Christian Christian likeeverything which I don't hate I
don't hate like I I'mappreciative of so many things
um but there's never been a timethat I haven't known about God
(24:23):
or believed God was real there'sdefinitely been times where I've
doubted if God was good.
SPEAKER_01 (24:29):
Like I think that's the way God or uh not God that's
the way that Satan has tried tolike get me.
It's like okay I can't likeconvince you he's not real but I
can convince you all these otherthings about him or try to
convince you like he's not good.
He's not listening he doesn'tlove you.
But one of the things thathonestly I mean even I've been
(24:49):
guilty of I won't even say this.
I know and I think severalChristians uh have been as well
is like oh I I can't go to thatparty because you're not
Christians right but you wentand you played the music right
like you you were likeparticipated I'm gonna go and
and be the light of Jesus in themiddle of a place that doesn't
(25:10):
have it and not being scaredabout that and not being like uh
legalistic about that.
So I grew up in a very myparents weren't this way but the
denomination I grew up in wasvery like you do the right
things so that it was much morework space.
Yeah yeah yeah and so it wouldbe like oh don't get out of line
(25:30):
don't don't get out of line likedon't go to the places where a
lot of guilt is like if youdon't yes yeah much more much
more that um and so I was justthinking like man if I was
invited to one of those partiesin high school like I probably
wouldn't go I probably wouldn'teven have the foresight of like
but what if I could go be thelight of Jesus I think I'd be
(25:52):
like oh like I might get introuble if I go there like I
might yeah that's probably gooddiscernment to not be going to
those and I think that's aninteresting question like
discernment even as no matterwhere someone is in their faith
like discernment versus actuallyliving out the Great Commission
like go and teach others andteach people to be my disciples
(26:16):
and like go out and and I thinkwe do need more Christians who
are willing to go to things thatthey don't necessarily agree
with to be the hands and feet ofJesus in it.
But instead it just seems moreand more that there's just more
division right where we're likeoh I can't be associated with
(26:36):
those people or doing that thingbecause I'm like this untainted
Christian over here.
SPEAKER_03 (26:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (26:43):
How do you think about that?
SPEAKER_03 (26:46):
What do you think Andy, what do we do?
I know what do we do?
What do we do?
Ian has a saying and I don'tknow if I'll get it right.
So sorry Ian but that it's hardto hate people up close and I
think that's so true that Icould do that because I already
loved them.
Because I mean I'd known thembefore I had this shift and I
(27:07):
became I think because of myexperience coming to faith I
became really in tune to feelingand sensing darkness and light
and I could feel that for themthese people I loved um and I
think about like even Jesus likespeaking to his disciples who
didn't have it all together whowere like from all different
(27:28):
walks of life and um just theway he talked to them like even
near the end like he's lookingat these people who he loves and
he's just like desperate forthem to know him to like carry
him to believe him you know tofollow in his way and I resonate
(27:49):
with that like I I love thesepeople I knew them for for years
and even in their like theiranger towards like me trying to
share my faith it's like oh mygosh I desperately want you to
know this.
Because I knew it and it changedmy life you know so I I think
(28:10):
that is it is it's getting upclose enough to begin to love
people to not just enter in whenit's convenient for trying to
check a box with our faith butto actually build relational
equity enough where there's liketrust built where we we're not
(28:31):
just doing it again to like tryto convert but because like we
desperately want people to knowhim.
And so I think it is when weenter into people's lives in
that way and we come to knowthem and love them we should
long for them to to know Jesus.
But I do think it of course it'slike healthy to have good
(28:54):
boundaries and to I think thatwhat was what I was learning as
well was like I need to have a acore of people who are pouring
into me who are um like mindedin their faith as well outside
of this because I think I for solong thought I'm like I'm gonna
(29:15):
do this on my like I can do thison my own you know I can do this
I can I can be a loner in themidst of people who don't
believe what I believe and umbut I think I realized quickly
that I was like oh I'm like I amlimited and God desires for me
to be in Christ centeredcommunity and so it is like
walking that line and havingthose boundaries of like who are
(29:37):
the people who are you are beingmost um influenced by and then
like who are the people thoughthat like God is placing in
front of you that you can likeget up close with you know and
come to know their stories andback to Ian's thing like stop
(30:02):
hating or stop hat havingassumptions about I think we
hold a lot of assumptions aboutpeople and we keep a distance
that's very true.
Did you doubt any time after youturned 17 I like you I I've
never I've not struggled muchwith like doubting God's
(30:24):
existence um but I definitelyhave had lower expectations of
him of him I've definitelydoubted that he was going to
show up um in the the big thingsthat I faced or in the small
things.
And that's been part of mypractice of like looking back
and remembering and seeing thosetimes when I thought I clearly
(30:47):
like God you couldn't be in thisbecause of how bad things are
and then looking to see theprovision of his promises and
the way that he held the biggerpicture and the way that he came
through in in ways that maybe Iwouldn't have thought or planned
but that were you know so muchbetter.
(31:10):
So yeah I think in that way I Ihave doubted and I still
struggle when hard things happenit's like are you gonna show up
God?
What I I think what I've learnedis that I don't limit God I I
think I've I've struggled withsome of the guilt of like well
(31:32):
if I'm not believing he's gonnado it then maybe he just won't
do it.
Yeah maybe he's gonna like withbe a withholding God.
Like if I don't have enoughfaith if I don't have enough
faith yeah if I'm not if I'm notconfident in him that he's gonna
do it yeah then maybe he won'tand then I see him and there's
abundant love for for us for medo it even though I doubted even
(31:56):
though I had lower expectationsum just such a reminder of his
abundant love for us that we donot thwart his plans that we do
not limit him by our lack offaith but that where our faith
lacks like his faith providesand fills in and finishes the
(32:17):
race for us on our behalf.
I know we were talking lastnight too about this like I
think sometimes I want to seethe fruit of things I want to
see the promise and we don'talways get to see it.
It's not like I'm coming toterms over experiences in my
life where I'm like it's notalways mine to see it is mine to
(32:41):
be faithful to the things he'sputting in front of me and trust
him with the greater picture andtrust that he holds it trust
that he knows what he's doingand that if the end fruit or the
end promise brings him moreglory like is that worth it and
I I think I want I keep comingback to that question in my life
(33:02):
too like is it worth it and yesI want my answer to always be
yes so yeah I think in that wayis how I've doubted not his
existence but just like are yougonna are you gonna come through
(33:22):
on this one?
SPEAKER_01 (33:24):
Yeah.
What are the practices you havethat keep you grounded and able
to just so easily go back tolike this is what like this is
who God is this is what God saysthis is when I even when I'm
doubting that he's good this iswhat I can believe instead like
(33:47):
what is what is your dailyweekly monthly rhythms that
really help you stay grounded.
SPEAKER_03 (33:53):
I mean I'm a mom with three little boys so I mean
honestly my prayer lifesometimes happens a lot out loud
at the kitchen sink in our goingum when I was pregnant with my
last baby I've had reallydifficult high risk pregnancies
and so extremely sick to thepoint of needing to go to the
(34:14):
hospital a few times throughoutit and I just remember praying
daily like out loud to Jesus andhonestly my my prayers were
often so simple because I was sosick.
It was just like Jesus help me Ineed you and I remember my four
year old at the time was likemama are you gonna keep asking
Jesus for help like after thebaby comes and I was like yes I
(34:40):
am but like I'm not gonna alwaysbe this sick hopefully um and so
I think I felt guilty.
I remember looking back and likefeeling guilty about like being
so desperate in that time thatthat my kids were seeing my
faith in this desperate place.
(35:00):
But then when he came to me itwas just like such a reminder of
like the impact a witness of ourlife to other people and the way
that we practice our faith likein the desperate seasons.
When we're just calling out tohim and I think the other thing
has been just the practice of Imean I think I just pray all the
(35:21):
time I feel like I'm just likealways talking to always talking
to him and remembering to liketurn to him to fix my eyes on
him and the practice I've beendoing is um just looking to
trace his hand.
So I recently did this thingwhere I drew out a line of my
life from you know when I wasborn to now and just placing all
(35:41):
the significant moments likehigh and low throughout my life
just kind of sitting with thoseand then looking back and seeing
to look for God.
And so that's been my practiceof when I'm in scripture just
like continuing to look for him.
And I think it's a practice wesee in early believers too is
this like ritual remembrance,this ability to when we're in
(36:05):
seasons of long waiting andsometimes we see in scripture
very long waiting where God isall but silent on a promise that
they're waiting on this practiceto look back, to turn our eyes
back towards Jesus and to lookback at these stories these like
(36:27):
stories we take for granted oftestimonies of God's
faithfulness despite all oddsand so that's been a practice
I've been doing of justcontinuing to look back and see
and trace God's hand um that issomething I'm I've been really
passionate about especially inwalking through some recent
(36:48):
circumstances in my own lifewhere like I really need to
remember that you are the sameGod not only who's faithful in
my life years prior but who wasfaithful thousands of years ago
you know who was faithful in thestories of of these of these
early believers and to see yourhand at work.
(37:11):
And so I think that's been a bigpractice for me.
And then the with ministry toowith the Monday night like
thinking about discipling acommunity of women and helping
them live that out it's been soum impactful for me too to
really think about how do wemove beyond Sundays?
How do we move from the place ofreceiving God's word to actually
(37:35):
not just responding andreflecting on it but like
applying it living it out seeingit start to bear fruit in our
lives and our weeks and thein-between of Sundays has become
a passion point for me as well.
And so that has become a bigpart of my practice too of like
taking what we're learning as achurch and just really digesting
(37:57):
it reflecting it researching andbeing in God's word being in
prayer and like okay God how dowe how do we move this well and
so those are some of the thingsI've currently been doing to
just remain with my eyes fixedon him.
I love that do you have anypractices with your boys we've
(38:21):
been reading this book calledthe Book of Belonging that's
really beautiful have you heardit.
So I love reading those Biblestories.
In the morning Ian reads there'slike he would read like a
devotional in the morning andthen at night we usually we'll
pray but honestly just likeconversations in the car on the
(38:42):
way to and from and then at likethe dinner table we've made
dinner like a pretty like we areat the table together and we're
praying and we're talking aboutour days and just like those
opportunities to point them backto God and help them see God and
and just be pointing out God inthe going like my son um I wrote
(39:07):
about this the other day becauseI was like God's just so cool
how he just like shows up whenyou least expect him we were at
the thrift store and my son hadof course wandered to the toy
aisle and found this like bin ofarmy men it's like plastic
Tupperware.
This is like a ChristmasTupperware full army men that
was like three dollars which Icould have bought for him but
we've tried to get in the habitof like not buying things that
(39:29):
are non-essentials you knowoutside of birthdays and stuff.
So they have allowance and I'mlike do you is that something
you want to spend your money onhe's like I really want it but I
guess I guess I don't need it.
And so we like carefully put itback on the shelf and he was
like like it's like he likewanted to remember where it was
and we walked away and we'regoing to get some school clothes
(39:51):
um per school event they hadover in the clothes section and
like moments later this old manwalks up with the bin this
little tupperware of army menand marked on it was the receipt
that it had been paid for.
And he hands it to Owen he'slike I just want you to remember
that God loves you and he's goodand he's still at work doing
(40:14):
good things in this world.
I was like I'm kind of likecrying in the like thrift store
aisle I would be too but it waslike this moment for me to like
I felt like I talked to Ownonstop that day it was like oh
do you see God's goodness do yousee how he loves you do you see
how he meets your needs like andjust that that like mark of like
(40:35):
paid in full even when we didn'tdeserve it you know and it was
like even though he didn't buythis or like choose to get this
thing God provided it anywayjust because he's so good
because he's so abundant and sothose just those little
opportunities where like we seeGod and like we can tune in and
(40:55):
I feel like my boys probablyteach me more about Jesus than I
teach them sometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (41:00):
Like my middle son the other day was taking
pictures of like light beams inthe house and he's like look mom
God keeps showing up God keepsshowing up and you know I'm
doing the dishes I'm like butthen I'm like drawn in I'm like
yeah like that's so cool andjust those moments to tune in
and remember to like to look forGod in like the little light
(41:26):
beam breaking through a shadowum and just have that awe and
wonder like to be reinvited intothat through my kids honestly I
feel like they do morediscipling of me than I do of
them sometimes but that's I lovethat so when I was in ninth
grade so I was a pastor's kidgrowing up my dad was a minister
(41:49):
for the majority of my life umand I remember one yeah okay
yeah and uh the I remember onetime someone who who was like a
mentor in my youth group andthey had been a pastor's kid and
they said do you ever feel likeyou're just living in a glass
house because there's you'relike your dad's always on stage
(42:10):
your family's always beingtalked about like there's an
expectation of you at youthgroup there's you know in like
your family everyone feels likethey know and there's this it's
unique it's unique do you everfeel like you're living in a
glass house oh for sure yeah Ithink there's some benefit to
(42:36):
not the not knowing that I'vehad growing up of like when I
was getting married to Ian I'mjust like well he's a pastor
that's interesting we'll see howthat works out um and I just had
no idea what that fully I don'tthink I fully understood what
that was gonna mean to like wewere doing ministry together and
(42:57):
I was excited like we're gonnado ministry together and um I
had this a pastor's wife whilewe were dating speaking to my
life and just say you know youare you are first God's daughter
you're Katie you're not Pastor'swife you are that is one of
(43:18):
gonna be one of your things butlike remember who you are and
don't lose yourself and don'tlet anyone tell you like who
you're supposed to be um and thebridge has just been so good at
at letting um staff spouses andme just kind of like follow
God's leading and calling andplacement and not force anything
(43:42):
into like where I I should beserving or how much.
SPEAKER_03 (43:47):
And so it's just been very natural to get to to
pray and let God lead that.
But certainly you feel the likepressure to and responsibility
to represent what I I thinksometimes people look to
especially I mean Ian more thanme even of like wow you know
(44:08):
this like oh you must be so holyyou must have it all together
and I'm just one of those peopleI'm like I don't don't have it
all together.
And so I think it's helped inthat not knowing that I was
supposed to have a plasteredsmile on my face and have it all
together because I had friendswhen I was getting married to
Ian be like you are so lucky.
I have always wanted to marry apastor and I was like is that a
(44:30):
thing oh that people were likewent to school to like I'm gonna
marry a pastor and that likepastor's wife is like my my
plan.
And so I was like I didn't knowI'm like that's great.
I just love Ian and there's thislike I'm excited about like okay
God has him doing ministry and Ilove mini ministry people and um
(44:54):
so I think that's helped butcertainly I'm sure I've been a
disappointment to people of likeI'm like why is she always a hot
mess?
No kids are just you knowrunning around and she's like
her hair I don't know.
But I I think I've had seasonswhere I've certainly been
tempted to try to polish it upand then quickly learn like
(45:18):
nope, don't get it polishedGod's gonna quickly reveal like
the the real story.
So yeah I think Certainly feltthat I I think as a mom, I now
feel even more protective andconcerned for my boys.
And something really stuck withme that I heard once is that the
(45:40):
greatest deterrent to faith forspecifically ministry kids is
hypocrisy in the home.
Yeah.
So it's like if I'm me or Ian isa polished version out here, and
then we look really different athome, like our greatest
ministry, our home, our ourfamily, our kids, like we'll see
(46:02):
that.
We'll sense that.
And certainly they call us outall the time and things.
And it's like it's it's so umformative and important and to
like continue to be held aposture of like humility in that
in front of them and in front ofother people.
(46:25):
Just like because if if otherpeople see this image of a
perfect perfect person who's hasit all together, it's like where
is there room to not have itall?
Where's room to not have it alltogether and like still be
following in the way of Jesus?
Yeah.
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (46:45):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (46:46):
So still navigating and figuring it out, I feel
still learning as I go, but justgrateful for the the bridge, the
church that we're at right now,and just the way that they've
allowed me to to lean into thethings that I I do feel God
calling me to do and giving meroom to cast vision for those
things and run with thosethings.
SPEAKER_02 (47:08):
And um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (47:13):
I mean, y'all have to be hit with spiritual warfare
harder than most because of thepositions, like Satan wants
nothing more than pastors andtheir marriages to fall apart,
and so that everyone else in thechurch will be like, oh, like
(47:33):
they can't do it like we caneither, or just any other type
of spiritual warfare, like itthen to term from their faith,
whatever.
Like there's a reason in the NewTestament, it's like, listen, if
you're gonna be preachers orteachers, like this is gonna be
harder.
Yeah.
And and so I pray for y'alloften just because I know the
(47:54):
pressure.
Not I mean everyone needs it,but but just because I'm like, I
y'all hand, I think that y'allare, I think y'all so
beautifully encompass so many,like you're so refreshing as
people and relatable and humble.
Like for like for the listeners,Ian's been on a couple of times,
(48:14):
but we hadn't like me and myhusband had no idea.
We love the fact that we had noidea that Ian had however many
hundreds of thousands offollowers on Instagram.
Like from the pulpit, you wouldnever know.
You'd never you'd barely know hehas a book that's gonna be
coming out, right?
Like he's just y'all both are sohumble.
(48:36):
And I, and from being in thechurch world, like where my dad
was a pastor and you know, justbeing around pastors, I think
the all like the constantstruggle is like to it turning
into performance.
SPEAKER_03 (48:47):
Yes, yes, right.
SPEAKER_01 (48:48):
And and so it's just like God keep them, like just
keep them, just like yes, keepthem because I know that the
spiritual warfare is like turnedup for your family because of
what God has called y'all to do.
And I think you do itbeautifully.
SPEAKER_03 (49:08):
Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (49:09):
Well, you're wonderful.
SPEAKER_03 (49:11):
I know, and it's been something I I think about a
lot because you see now withlike the social media pastor,
like the amount of people whoare have platform to speak about
Jesus, and like there, I thinkthere can be good drawn from
that.
Like it could can be used forreal good.
Um, but also there's this liketemptation to that I think we
(49:33):
need to be careful of where ifwe're speaking more passionately
to and about Jesus from aplatform or in public than we
are in the private of our home,that relationship is more
performance-based than it ispersonal, and that's where it's
a red flag, like it's yeah, um,to be concerned.
(49:58):
And I mean, it's something thatof course we have to like fight
against and pray against.
And certainly I there are manydays where I'm like, well, Satan
get behind me, you know.
And I think we both are whereit's like, yeah, he will when
God is up to something good andhe wants to to move, like you
(50:19):
will see, you will see the workof Satan.
He's he's gonna be move, be moveon the move.
And so I think it's good to beaware of that and not try to
like pretend like it doesn'texist, but to be prepared for
it.
(50:39):
Um, so certainly, I mean, we goto therapy and like we we work
on our marriage, and it'ssomething that we're like, we
know, like we this has to bestrong for in order for us to be
able to authentically speak intothe lives of other people's
lives and marriages, like wedon't have to have it perfectly
(51:01):
all together, but we do have tobe rooted in Christ.
Like we do have to um be gettingthat right, yeah.
As far as like yeah, where weare rooted from and um our our
heart posture too.
When you when you get on a stageor on a you're on a platform,
(51:22):
like you really have to checkthe intent of your heart and be
praying before you're posting,you know, seeking God before
you're like doing a a mic dropor even writing a sermon.
Like if you're not seeking Godon that, um yeah, that that
should that would be a concernto me.
(51:44):
So it's something we don't takelightly and something that we
yeah I don't know that we getperfectly all the time to like
we are human, but we certainlylike are constantly working
against that, like okay, don'tlet us fall to that.
Um and Ian has certainly invitedme into that too, like as you
(52:08):
know, like you said, I mean, ashis followers grew, it was I
remember him like telling me,like, hey, don't let me change,
like, don't let me like fallinto something that I don't want
to.
And um, I think we're able to bethat kind of grounding for each
other, too.
(52:29):
So just kind of like the checkof like, hey, I know you and you
you can most see a person athome, there you can see their
true selves at home and howthings are affecting them and
the weight we carry fromministry and like yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (52:44):
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (52:46):
I love, I think often about what John Maxwell
said once about uh someone wastelling him when he was younger,
he was like, God has given you agift, but that means two things.
Number one, it's not you, andnumber two, it's a gift, like
for you to use to his glory andto give back, but never once
(53:08):
think this is you.
Yeah.
And I just love that heartposture of like, okay, God,
whatever gift it is that you'vegiven me, you, like anyone
listening, help us to rememberit's not about us and to like
use it to your glory.
Yeah.
To our to our best extent.
(53:29):
Okay, I have two final questionsfor you.
Okay, yeah.
Uh so what is the name of thispodcast?
Is The Way You Show Up.
When you think about the way youwant to show up, what is it?
SPEAKER_03 (53:45):
I mean, auth authenticity is a huge value to
me.
So I I always want to show upauthentically as I am.
Um and I I want to be someonewho consistently points back to
God.
One of my life verses lately,it's been Psalm 107.
So give thanks to the Lord forHe is good, his mercy endures
(54:06):
forever, and let the redeemed ofthe Lord say so.
And other translations says letthem tell their story.
And so, just in experiences I'vebeen through, I'm like, I don't
want to keep quiet about whatGod's done in my life because I
have had seasons where I've beenmore introverted and reserved
and wanting to take the backseat rather than speaking up and
(54:30):
sharing what God's at workdoing.
And so, yeah, I want to show uptrusting like every day what God
has placed in front of me andthen the opportunity to like
reveal more of him, whether it'sjust like to my kids and my
family or to someone in passing,like yeah, I guess that would be
(54:50):
my hardest that I would I wouldshow up authentic and in a way
that um points back is a is alife that points back to him,
living a life that points backto Jesus in the hard and the
good.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (55:08):
What are the things that you think help you to
continue to show up that way?
SPEAKER_03 (55:14):
That's a good question.
I think just being reallyhumbled by by life, by like the
storms of life and by like thewaves of like having to get up
again or um just seeing beingjust humbled by God's abundant
love for me and grace to me.
(55:37):
Um I I think that allows me toremember like it is not about
me, and it is like I saidearlier, like it is not always
mine to see the fruit.
Um and yeah, simply that likeevery day I have an opportunity
to like point people back to whoGod is and what he's done in my
(56:01):
life, and um yeah, I think thatthat humbling for sure has like
allowed me to be like, yeah, butI can show up as I am and not
keep quiet about what God's donein my life.
Um because I've learned throughsome hard, really hard
circumstances that every daymatters.
(56:22):
And if I'm only given today,like what am I gonna do with it?
So I think that requires a lotof grace sometimes for myself of
like I can get really hard onmyself at the end of a day, like
oh I gotta stop today.
I didn't I didn't get it allright today.
And then it's just rememberinglike his grace that washes over
(56:44):
us at the end of every day, likeokay.
But then I I can turn back tohim and tomorrow's another day.
Um so yeah, I think ultimatelyjust that the humbling process
of life has allowed me to likeslowly learn to just show up
(57:06):
that way.
SPEAKER_01 (57:09):
Katie, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03 (57:11):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (57:12):
Amazing, you have an amazing story, an amazing
witness for Christ and what'shappened in your life.
And I thoroughly enjoyed ourconversation.
Thank you so much for talkingwith me today.
SPEAKER_03 (57:24):
Me too.
It was such an honor.
So honored to be here and get toshare about God, what he's doing
in my life.
So thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (57:32):
Honestly, y'all, I typically have three key
takeaways, and here's somethingyou should do.
I'm a little bit at a lossbecause I believe that the story
that Katie shared with us today,several of the stories that
Katie shared with us today,really speak for themselves.
I am leaving this conversationpersonally thinking about two
(57:53):
key things.
The first one is where are thethumbprints of God in my life?
In what ways has God shown upfor me, for my family, and how
can I do a better job ofremembering those things,
writing those things down,having those be the stacked
(58:14):
stones that I remember whentimes get hard and when times
are good.
Y'all, I'm the kind of personthat when I'm reading scripture,
I typically, I can't believe I'mabout to say this, I typically
like skip over the parts thattalk about like, oh, praise the
Lord, especially in the Psalms.
But even yesterday I was readingPsalm 34.1 and or I was reading
(58:35):
all of Psalms 34.
And as I skipped forward, I waslike, oh, I love the part about
tasting and seeing that the Lordis good, about him being with
those and overcoming all oftheir those with who love him
and overcoming all of theirfears.
But I realized I kept skippingover the first three verses.
And so I actually wrote thefirst verse of Psalm 34 on my
hand.
(58:56):
I will extol the Lord at alltimes.
His praise will always be on mylips.
I do such a bad job at this thatI literally just wrote the first
letter of each of those words onmy hand, and I have been
rewriting it and rewriting itand rewriting it because I want
to do a better job of extollingthe Lord at all times.
(59:19):
His praise will always be on mylips.
And let that be the thing that Iam meditating on right now.
So that's number one.
My second key takeaway that Ihave from that I am thinking of
from this conversation is makingsure that what I'm doing is not
coming from a place ofperformance, which can be very
(59:40):
hard, but is coming from a placeof rootedness and praise and
following what God wants me todo before I shoot an episode,
before I post on Instagram,whatever it might be, and even
the things people don't seebefore I go home, before I go
work out, before whatever itmight be, what is the mindset
(01:00:04):
and heart posture that I'mtaking into that?
And honestly, that's something Ineeded to be reminded of today.
So I'm thankful for my friendKatie.
I would love to know your keytakeaways from today's episode
as well.
If you're watching on YouTube,leave a comment below.
Share this with a friend whowill be edified from hearing
(01:00:26):
this conversation today.
Until next week, stay strong.
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