April 22, 2025 • 60 mins
Boston area real estate investor, Jesus Jimenez joins Luis as they discuss the intricacies of the short-term rental (STR) business with Avery Carl, a recognized expert in the field and the founder of The Short-Term Shop. Avery shares her path from a long-term rental investor to building a portfolio of over 250 units, including short-term and long-term rentals. Avery offers insights into optimizing STR profitability, navigating regulatory frameworks, and the importance of leveraging platforms like Airbnb and VRBO while setting up efficient property management systems. This episode also explores the evolving landscape of STRs, the emerging trend of boutique hotels, and valuable life hacks for managing a real estate business. Avery also talks about her books, 'Short-Term Rental, Long-Term Wealth' and 'Smarter Short-Term Rentals,' providing listeners with both beginner and advanced tips for succeeding in the STR market.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And still to this day, 250 doorslater, every dollar that we make
(00:03):
on real estate investments.
So every dollar that cashflowgoes back into buying more real
estate.
We don't live on our investmentincome, which I think is the
biggest mistake that people makein their first two or three
deals.
(00:25):
Welcome to the Wayfinder Showwith Louis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
areas of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:47):
Come join us and find a way toyour dream life.
Avery Carl (01:01):
We've been lifelong friends, but you're here because
we have a guest coming up thatis of interest to you and your
business, right?
Yeah.
No, abs.
Absolutely.
Yeah I'm really, excited to meetAvery and to get to to speak
with her and why?
And I can't even, just'cause Ithink the knowledge and the
(01:24):
experience that she has, right?
So I think this is anopportunity to chat with
someone, who's normally not inmy circle.
It's not in my space, right?
I know she does a lot of, a lotof podcasts, a lot of
interviews, and she speaks at alot of conferences.
(01:44):
But I'm assuming that even inthose spaces, it's difficult to
have a one-on-one, right?
Everyone is fighting for herattention.
So today, right?
We actually have thatopportunity.
So I think that's super awesome.
And just, and why is sheimportant to you?
Because she's doing what I wannado.
(02:06):
She's doing it in the realestate space from a STR
perspective, right?
It's something that I started todo a year and a half, two years
ago.
I have my feet wet.
I'm transitioning some of mylong-term properties to STR.
But there's still a lot for meleft to learn, right?
(02:27):
I don't think you ever finishedlearning.
And she's been in the STR spacefor a very long time.
And I wanna say that when youthink of short term rentals and
Airbnbs and you think of theexperts.
Avery call comes up all thetime.
She says the top of the list.
(02:47):
She, absolutely is.
So from my perspective, it'sreally I wanna learn what are
some of the tips and tricks?
What are some of the insights?
How do you maximize profitprofitability?
How do you minimize vacanciesexpenses?
Those are some of the thingsthat can make and break your
(03:09):
business.
When you're talking about strit's very different than long
term.
So yeah.
So I'm excited to see what shehas to share.
Yeah.
And what, what gems, ortakeaways I can get and and then
try to incorporate those into mybusiness.
Yeah.
And Jesus, you have, tell us alittle bit about your, business
(03:32):
though.
How, like where are your strwhere, how many you have?
Yeah.
All that.
Actually, lemme even take it alittle bit back.
Let me dumb this down a littlebit more.
I know you, you are alsobuilding a big following
yourself and Correct thatfollowing is very niche
specific.
So they all know what an STR is,but my followers don't.
The people listening to theWayfinder show may or may not.
(03:52):
So just for, I may back it up alittle bit and just say define
things.
STR is a short term rental.
Some people just call the mostcommon platform is Airbnb.
Correct.
So a lot of people just callthem Airbnbs.
But STR is short term.
And, it's usually less than 28days.
(04:14):
So when we think of, when wetalk about st, everyone thinks
Airbnb, just like you mentioned,and it's usually less than 28
day stays.
Then there's this new categoryor what I consider a new
category called midterm rentals,MTRs.
And this is usually 29, 30 daysto about six months.
(04:36):
In my business it is a lot oftravel nurses digital nomads
contractors that are coming intoan area to work for one month
plus.
So those are the folks that fallinto that MTR space.
There's other avatars that do,but for my business those are
the primary people that, Iengage in and that I host.
(05:01):
As far as my portfolio, so Istarted off with long-term.
So our first unit was our firstbuilding multi-family
residential and commercial allin one.
So the residential piece workingwith the tenants, working with
the property, making sure thateverything is kept up well and
(05:25):
trying to mitigate issues assoon as possible.
I had to learn that.
That, that was on theresidential side the commercial
space is something completelydifferent.
If you think they're both thesame, that is not the case.
I made a lot of errors on thecommercial side just with the
leases themselves.
(05:45):
I, there are so many things thatthat I've learned now, but, it's
just kinda Yeah.
Kind of part of that journey.
That's where the majority of myexperience is.
It's in residentialmultifamilies and then some of
the commercial space.
I have a few multifamilybuildings majority in Boston.
(06:09):
I have, I do have one inAttleborough.
I know we were talking aboutthat the other day.
It's the next town over is RhodeIsland where you grew up.
Okay.
So I do have one in your area.
And then the other, propertiesare here in the Boston area.
Yeah.
Why did you switch to short-termrental?
I listened to a lot of podcasts.
(06:29):
I listened to a lot of YouTubeinterviews and I had a lot of
friends, local friends that weredoing Airbnbs, and they kept
telling me, Jesus, you have tolook at this.
You have to check it out.
You have to give this a try.
And I think sometimes it alwaysseems like the grass is greener
no matter what someone tellsyou, it always that sounds like
(06:52):
too much work.
I don't know.
And I hesitated and then onetime I found a good opportunity
to test it out.
I had a finished basement in oneof my multi-families and I was
like, you know what?
I'm.
Let me try this Airbnb thing inthis space, right?
I'm not losing anything per se.
(07:16):
Invested some money renovatedthe space, then we furnished it.
Again, I'm putting money in.
I haven't even applied for thepermit.
So it was like, it's scary.
Oh, we're doing this or we'redoing this but I went all in.
I wouldn't advise folks to dothat.
But I went all in.
(07:36):
Luckily things worked out and,four months, five months in this
little basement apartment orstudio was making almost as much
as one of my regular threebedroom apartments.
And now, again to put things inperspective, it is season.
(07:57):
So in six months I was able tosee why people were so all in to
Airbnb.
I was able to see when they talkabout, oh, you can get up to
three times the amount ofregular rent I.
I saw that I received the 10 99from Airbnb at the end of the
year, and I think that's when itreally hits you.
(08:19):
Like when you see all thenumbers together, you're like,
holy crap, we made how much?
Like that's that light bulbmoment.
And obviously you have expenses,you have utilities, you have
these different things that,that still come into play.
But that was an eyeopener for meand I was like, okay, yeah,
there may be an opportunityhere.
(08:41):
All right.
Hi Avery.
Hey, how are you?
Okay, so Avery, we're tryingsomething different with you.
I hope you don't mind.
We already started recording.
We have a special guest host onOkay, cool.
Who's a big fan of yours.
Okay.
Surprise.
I'm awesome.
Love it.
Yeah, we, we, started doingsomething on the Wayfinder Show.
(09:05):
I have a newsletter that comesout and on there I have all the
guests who are coming up who arescheduled, and yours was on
there.
And Jesus is a friend of minefrom.
Back in college.
We've been friends for 30 yearsnow.
And and he's been doing theshort term rental thing in
Boston recently.
So once you get into thatsomehow we, we find you you're,
always, you start looking forwho's doing it right.
(09:26):
And your name always comes up.
So he's I wanna be down for thatepisode.
So I thanks.
I had to bribe, I had to bribeLouis to be on the show today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And luckily, the check didn'teven bounce, man.
It cashed real smooth.
You know why?
Because of your short termrental business, so that's good.
(09:46):
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Avery, if you don't mind meintroducing you, I wrote a Yeah,
sure.
A little bit here about you.
You're the you're the founderand CEO of the short term shop
the nation's top real estatebrokerage specializing in
short-term rental investmentproperties.
As an investor herself, Averybuilt a portfolio of 240 plus
(10:08):
stores leveraging short-termrentals to a scale into larger,
to scale into largerinvestments.
You've written the book.
On short term rentals calledShort-Term Rental, Long-Term
Wealth, and you've been featuredin Forbes, business Insider,
wall Street Journal, and otherpublications for your expertise
in helping clients build wealththrough short term rentals.
(10:30):
So yeah, Avery.
Carl, welcome to the WayfinderShow.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Oh, what a welcome.
Yeah, thank you for coming on.
It is exciting.
C we start where we usually dowhich is just let people know a
little bit about your journey.
How'd you get into this mess ofshort term rent rentals and
(10:52):
where's it gone?
This mess of real estateinvesting.
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
I bought my first rentalproperty.
It was a long term rentalbecause.
My husband and I had saved uplike$10,000.
We'd just gotten married.
I had what I thought was mydream job, working in the music
(11:13):
business in Nashville, gotten mymaster's degree all to make
$37,000 a year because the musicbusiness, it sounds very sexy.
And because of that, people willdo it for no money.
Just to say they were in a roomwith some stupid country music
singer last night and so there'salways somebody who will do it
for less.
So anyway, I was making nothing.
(11:33):
Had a little bit of money savedup and I wa I was super into
personal finance at the time.
It still am in a lot of ways,but not the way that I was.
And I was reading all the DaveRamsey books and trying to make
sure we got off to the rightstart in our marriage
financially and.
What can we do with this money?
So it's not just like sitting inthe bank and said, let's go to a
(11:55):
financial planner and havesomebody tell us what to do.
And so we went to an EdwardJones office.
This lady, I can't even rememberher name, but thank God she did
this.
We went in there and told her alittle bit about us, what we
wanted to do, and she basicallytold us we didn't have enough
money for her to bother us.
(12:16):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, great.
Okay.
So we left.
And on the way home we werethinking, we were talking like
what do we do?
There's gotta be something wecan do with this to make it grow
rather than just let it sit.
And our realtor who we had justmoved.
From New York City to Nashvilleabout a year and a half earlier.
(12:39):
And she had really been tryingto get us to buy in this super
hip, fast, appreciating area ofNashville.
She kept harping on like howfast it's appreciating.
And we were like, eh, no.
We're moving from Brooklyn toTennessee.
We're done with neighbors.
We had two neighbors, firstfloor, Steve and second floor,
Steve and our like brownstonethat we lived in.
It was like, we don't want anymore of that.
So we said, we wanna be out inthe country.
(13:00):
And she said, okay.
So we bought something out inthe country and never thought
about it again.
And, but I thought about afteron the way home from being told
that we were too broke to botherwith that.
What if we saved up a little bitmore?
'cause at the time, houses inNashville were like a hundred
thousand dollars.
And what if we saved up a littlebit more and bought one of
those, put a renter in it sowe're not paying the bills on
(13:22):
it.
And then in 25 years, wheneverwe decide to have.
Kids and they grow up and needto go to college, then we'll be
able to just sell it, pay fortheir college outta that
appreciation, and we'll be thesegreat financial geniuses that
didn't have to pay out of ourown income and savings.
And so we did it.
We just went and bought one.
Nice.
(13:43):
Yeah, we had to save up a littlebit more.
Another 5,000 ish because youcan put 15% down on an
investment property.
A lot of people don't realizethat.
And bought one withoutresearching, without anything.
This is 2013 and there werelike, there were no YouTube
channels, no gurus really.
There were probably a few, butso we bought one and the
(14:05):
mortgage on that was 650, 640$7a month, and we were able to
rent it out for 1550.
So almost a thousand dollars.
That's not bad at all, which,yeah.
Yeah.
Not bad for not knowing whatyou're doing on a long-term
rental.
And coincidentally it's abouthow much I was making at my
dream job after all thedeductions and stuff on my
(14:27):
paycheck a month.
So we thought, man, this houseis making as much money as me
and I'm going to work all dayand it's doing it I could be
doing whatever while that'shappening.
So we said we need more ofthese.
What?
And then we started listening tolike the BiggerPockets podcast,
which was about it.
Back then there was really justthe BiggerPockets podcast and
(14:48):
learning about real estateinvesting.
We didn't even know it wascalled Real Estate Investing
when we bought that first one.
Most people do that the otherway around.
They research and then they buysomething.
So anyway, we saved up a littlemore and we thought what can we
buy that's gonna make us themost amount of money the fastest
so that we can buy more?
And the goal was not to quit myjob.
The goal was not to get rich.
(15:09):
The goal was to buy more.
We need.
More.
And so we landed on short-termrentals, but we knew we didn't
wanna do it in Nashville.
Nashville's very anti short-termrental.
We could not afford to be toldthat we couldn't do it.
So we'd just been on vacation tothe Smokey Mountains in Pigeon
Forge, four hours east ofNashville.
We'd stayed in a rental cabin.
(15:30):
All our friends had stayed indifferent rental cabins and
somebody owned those cabins.
Those are short-term rentals.
Okay, let's do that in a placewhere it's like the normal thing
to do.
So we like scraped all thepennies outta the bottom of my
purse and in between the carseats and made a down payment on
one of those.
And again, there were no, peopleon Instagram with yellow
subtitles telling you the fivebiggest mistakes that short-term
(15:53):
rental owners make.
And so we just figured out howto manage it ourselves remotely
from four hours away.
One thing led to another, scaledthat to about five over the next
18 months.
Started throwing some long-termrentals in there.
Started my company.
The short term shop about fouryears later.
So we bought that first shortterm in 2015, started the short
(16:14):
term shop, or what wouldeventually become a short-term
shop in 2017.
'cause there weren't really anyagents in the space who could
answer our basic questions like,how much should this make?
Or is this a better rental onthis side of town or that side
of town?
What rents better?
Nobody knew those things.
So I just started as a singleagent.
We had friends and I wasn'treally even gonna become a real
(16:35):
estate agent, but friends wouldsay, oh, you're making how much
on that cabin in the Smokies.
Help me buy one.
Teach me how to do that.
And then it just grew to friendsof friends and then people that
we didn't know.
And then people were saying,Hey, is there somebody like you
that I can talk to in Dustin,Florida?
And I'm like not that I know of,but let's put a me there.
And then the short term shop wasborn, and so now we've got.
(16:58):
2020 offices, 60 agents.
We've helped over 5,000investors buy and sell
short-term rentals.
Sold over a little over 3billion in short-term rentals
since about 2019.
And then I've grown my personalportfolio to about 250 doors.
Eight of those are shortterm.
The rest are more traditional,long terms and, multifamily.
So that's it.
(17:20):
Yeah.
That's impressive.
I got a quick question for you.
So when you were doing the soyou get into the first STR and
then you just begin to, buy morein the Smokey Mountains area.
Are you looking at, okay, what'sthe threshold or what's the
number before you buy the nextone?
How are you figuring out when,to buy that, that next STR?
(17:45):
So for us, back then, it was assoon as we had a big enough down
payment.
As soon as we had the downpayment, we were buying another
one.
And also we were a lot younger.
We didn't have kids, so we couldafford to operate that way in a
way that we would not operatetoday.
But every dollar, and still tothis day, 250 doors later, every
(18:08):
dollar that we make on realestate investments.
So every dollar that cashflowgoes back into buying more real
estate.
Yes.
We don't live on our investmentincome, which I think is the
biggest mistake that people makein their first two or three
deals.
Yeah, no, that makes a lot ofsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How have you seen the STR worldevolved since then?
(18:31):
You started by looking intoSmoky Mountains Oh my goodness.
Over now and yeah.
Yeah.
So it's evolved.
Quite a bit.
So when I started in 2015 I wishwe knew then what we know now
with the, what the prices ofreal estate were back then.
And, I would've bought athousand before 2020 hit.
(18:55):
So I think that there, there waslike a perfect storm of
popularity of the short-termrental asset class starting in
2020.
The vacation rental, which iswhat I invest in, I like to
separate that out from thelarger short-term rental asset
class.
I only do vacation rentals.
So in vacation markets whereit's been the normal thing for
(19:17):
people to go rent a cabin or abeach house or a condo, lake
house, forever, decades, mygrandmother's been coming down
here to Dustin, Florida andrenting a place since the
thirties.
Wow.
I like areas that have thatlongevity of the asset class.
So it's not a new asset class atall, but when Airbnb came along,
it democratized it and made itan asset class where you could
(19:37):
actually cashflow.
Whereas before you were beholdento all the local property
management companies, they werecharging 40% of your gross.
'cause what are you gonna do?
You have no other option exceptrent it with them or not rent it
at all.
And Airbnb changed that andactually made it a viable as
like investible asset class andnot just a toy, like a boat.
(19:59):
So that kind of started catchingon, I would say in 2016.
Then you get up to COVID in 2020and it exploded.
All real estate exploded in 2020with a 2% interest rates.
My chihuahua could have bought.
Real estate then, like everybodywas buying real estate.
A lot of people, it shouldn'thave been buying real estate.
(20:20):
So we saw a big influx ininventory of short-term rentals
because everybody bought one'cause They'd say, oh my God,
the payment on a beach house isgonna be what I can handle.
That.
That's, and it's something thatpeople, everybody's always
wanted a vacation home.
I don't care who you are.
Yeah, Everybody has not alwayssaid, you know what, I'd really
like to have a 32 unit apartmentcomplex in Omaha, Nebraska.
(20:42):
But they have said, Hey, I'dlike to have a beach house.
I'd like to have a mountainhouse.
So that coolness, like the, thatthing that everybody's always
wanted became attainable.
And then Airbnb, oh, let me justslap it on Airbnb.
That thing's coming up that's,gaining steam.
It's in the news.
So all these people that didn'tneed to be buying properties
that were not treating'em like abusiness, had the ability to buy
properties and did not treatthem like a business because
(21:06):
they wanted these.
Sexy assets.
So what happened was a lot ofpeople got their asses handed to
'em in 20 21, 22.
They called it the Airbnb bust,which it was not a bust.
And I'll explain why here in aminute.
But, since 2022, the supplyinflux has cooled off.
The tides gone back out on that.
(21:28):
A lot of the markets that theywere calling saturated because
they had a lot of supply, are nolong.
They're back on the list of bestplaces to invest because that
supply has shrunk and demand hasalways been there.
But supply just went way overhere for a minute, but it's come
back down to reality now.
Those markets that have thatheavy tourism, decades long
(21:52):
proven tourism like your JoshuaTree.
Orlando Destin, Florida, theSmokies, all those places now
that supply has shrunk, havereally bumped back up to being
not quite, not fully recovered,but definitely like we're a very
stabilized asset class, which isgood that needed to happen.
So we're stabilized just likeapartment buildings, just like
(22:14):
single family long-term.
One thing though that back tothe Airbnb bus thing that I
wanna highlight is yes, between2021 and 2023 short-term rental
incomes, rents went down.
But what people didn't realizeis that most people have not
owned prior to 2020.
So they were only looking at,okay man, I made all this money
(22:35):
in 2020.
It went down, actually bumpedback up some, it increased in
2024.
So we saw a little bit of abounce there.
But when you're only lookingfrom 2020 to 2024, you're like,
oh, damn, it's an bus.
But if you back that y axis.
Up, I guess it's a y-axis.
I barely know statistics.
(22:55):
That other line on the left handside up to 2015, it is a very
steady trending upwards.
Like it, it's not a bust from2020 to 24, it's more of a blip.
So to give you like a real lifeanecdote, properties that we
were happy to make 45,000 a yearon in 2015 that we still own,
(23:16):
they went up to I think 85,000was the most we ever made on'em
in 2022.
Oh wow.
But we're still in the highseventies, so that's not a bus.
Guys.
You just gotta back it up andlook at the bigger picture.
So is this sort of, if you gotin early and you understood what
the numbers should be instead ofthe blip, but if.
(23:39):
If you're being conservativewith, okay, you know what, this
is how much I expect to make peryear on Airbnb.
If you were conservative onthose numbers, then you probably
would've been okay throughoutthe duration where, hey, if it's
going higher than then that'sgood, but, you're not relying on
this high amount maybe to, payfor the mortgage or, to pay for
(24:01):
some of the expenses.
Do you think that would've beensomething to take into
consideration?
Yeah, so I think there were alot of people didn't run numbers
conservatively enough, butreally what the biggest mistake
that I saw people make wasthinking, okay, I've bought a
really nice house in a greatmarket.
(24:21):
I'm done.
It's gonna make money.
I don't have to do anythingelse.
But it is a business that you dohave.
It's not a hard business to run.
It's easy.
You can do it from the bed orthe bar or the gym or wherever
you wanna be, but it is you dohave to set your systems up and
you have to manage well.
So I think most people makes,there we're either in that camp
(24:43):
or the, FOMO camp of, okay, it's2021, there's a hundred offers
on every single thing.
So I'm gonna maybe scoot alittle bit further away from the
attraction.
Maybe they bought something alittle bit weird, a little too
far away, not the typicalaesthetic for the market.
So like in mountain markets,people typically want cabins.
If you go buy a brick ranchhome,'cause it was easier to
(25:03):
get,'cause there weren't as manyoffers.
It's not gonna rent as well asthe more popular styles of
properties.
So it was a number of things.
Okay.
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah.
What do you use for.
I, imagine you have really goodsystems for criteria developing
what, is the criteria for yourproperty in terms of numbers,
(25:24):
ratios all that.
You already mentioned you likevacation spots, but what about
the numbers?
Yeah, so for me, the numbers, Iwanna see a property that can
get to not, that is doing, thatcan get to a 15% cash on cash
return.
Used to be 20%.
(25:45):
Those days are gone, but 15%,like really well, that, that's a
really good number.
Now I'm not looking forproperties that are sitting
there.
Doing that now.
'cause you're not gonna findthat on the MLS I'm looking for
properties where the opportunityis there to push them at the
price that I'm able to get'emfor up above that 15% mark.
(26:05):
So whether that's I have themost luck, honestly, with
properties where the listingagents took bad pictures and
nobody looked at'em.
Nobody went to look at It'salways the best person because
they look like crap on theinternet.
Yeah.
Or they are they, yeah, I've hadtwo.
They listed something wrong.
Yeah.
I've had some bigger deals thatway.
Yeah.
I've seen, yeah.
Or yeah, they listed somethingwrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(26:25):
I'd argue that's the number onestrategy for every real estate
investment is just look on theML mls for really bad pictures,
dark pictures, overpriced, yeah,But people will be like I don't,
that's not I, want a nicer beachhouse than that.
And this one doesn't look thatnice.
So they kinda let their personalpreferences get involved with
it.
'cause Agains not the apartmentbuilding in Omaha.
(26:47):
It's my beach house.
There's a little bit of thattoo, but ugliest property in the
best location, worst picture,highest days on market.
Overpriced, low balling.
I just got a deal new Orleansfor$60,000 off a 700,000
purchase price.
Just because it had been onmarket for a while and offered
(27:09):
low and they said no at first.
And then we said, okay there'sthis other one that we're
looking at too.
And yeah, it's very similarlypriced.
Whoever will give us the bestdeal is who we're gonna go with.
And this seller was, had beenliving there, and she was moving
away and she was finally like,okay, fine.
Yeah, I'll just do it.
Yeah.
(27:29):
She gave up.
Yeah, she did.
Avery, I'm curious you so isvaluation not as important as
long as you're getting that 15%cash on cash?
Because you, like you mentionedthis one at 60,000 off of 700
like if you're still gonna get,would you pay the 700 if you're
still gonna get the 15% cash oncash?
(27:51):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So that does, so valu, the basisis not as important as your
potential cash on cash, is thatright?
There's no real rules of thumbanymore.
I know everybody's got one, andI don't really subscribe to
anyone's because there's nothingthat works across the board.
There's no rule of thumb thatworks all the time for
(28:13):
everybody's situation.
So if at the end of the day, theend of the year, the amount of
cash that you're gonna have leftover is worth the amount of
money that you have to put downand the effort and the time it
takes you to manage this thing,if that's worth it to you, then
it's a good deal.
Yeah.
When you're looking at theAirbnbs, 15% cash on cash
(28:37):
return.
Is it primarily with the ownermanaging the Airbnb?
Do you ever look at, hey, we'regonna put a co-host to manage
this and adding that expense andseeing if, you get the 15% cash
on cash?
So here's, what I do.
(28:57):
I use VAs, we train our own VAsokay.
To, help us manage because atthe end of the day, it's
significantly cheaper.
To illustrate that.
So we've got eight properties,eight short terms, and if I was
gonna pay a co-host or aproperty manager 20%, which is
pretty standard, I'd have paidsomebody$250,000 last year to do
(29:19):
a$50,000 a year tops.
Job.
So it just stops making sense.
Yeah.
After a while.
So for me, I prefer the VAroute, which is what we teach
you in the new book.
Nice.
Is how to set up your systemsand how to train VAs, how to set
(29:39):
up your standard operatingprocedure.
It's not all about VAs, butthere's a lot of systems,
processes, operations in thereto help you optimize so that
again, you're not having tooutsource a quarter of a million
dollars for a one person admintask.
Makes sense.
(29:59):
Any, since we're talking aboutthe book I read short Term
Rental, Long-Term Wealth.
I, heard it.
I'm all about audio books at thegym or something.
What I really liked about thebook some of the tips that you
share i, like that you providedhey, these are some of the
applications, these are some ofthe tools that I use.
And I thought that it was apretty straightforward blue
(30:23):
blueprint.
If you say if you're wanna startout, you're hearing a lot about
Airbnbs.
It was pretty straightforward asfar as these are the things that
you need to do.
With the new book, smarterShort-Term Rentals, how is that
different or what can some ofthe readers expect as compared
(30:44):
to the previous book?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So the first book, Short-TermRental, Long-Term Wealth, was,
I.
More of a primer.
Okay, this is how to, this ishow to choose a market.
These are the different types ofmarkets, these are the types of
properties, how to choose aproperty, how to analyze how to
finance, just the wholeinvestment structure.
(31:04):
And this one builds on a fewconcepts from that book in terms
of things that have changedabout financing since that one
was written in 2020.
But really it's more on thebusiness side of optimizing your
short term.
Basically taking whateverproperty you may already have
and making that better maythrough your own management.
(31:26):
So it's really for new orexperienced investors, whereas
the previous ones really likefor new investors.
Okay.
Gotcha.
That's, I'm excited.
How do you I'm curious how doyou go and find your cleaning,
maintenance, your boots on theground for a market that you
don't live in?
Yeah.
(31:46):
That.
That's a great question.
So I, that's why I like verytried and true vacation towns
because it's gonna be very easyto find those types of people
because there's, the industry ofvacation rentals is so
established in those types ofmarkets.
So it's gonna be a lot easier toplug your business in, Destin
(32:07):
Florida than in Columbus,Mississippi, because short-term
rentals, vacation rentals havebeen such a big piece of the
economy in Destin for the lastcentury.
And in Columbus you're gonna getpeople who may be coming to
visit the military base.
You're gonna have to find acleaner who probably cleans
primary homes that you're gonnahave to teach'em how to turn a
(32:28):
vacation rental.
It's a different process andit's just DA different thing.
So for me, I prefer the big welltraveled vacation towns because
it's so much easier to findthose vendors that you need.
There's a huge infrastructure of'em.
Yeah.
Yeah, That makes a lot of sense.
Thanks.
Yeah.
(32:49):
So let's say you've helpedsomeone buy an STR the listing
is live.
How do you help them maximizethe profit or, minimize the
vacancy?
And I guess the question thatI'm really getting to as, is it
primarily Airbnb that you relyon?
Are there other sites or OTAsthat, that you use or what does
(33:12):
that look like?
Yeah, So we put all of our buyerclients through a free course
for our buyers that we callManagement Monday, and nine
times outta 10, if you arefollowing a US based real estate
investor, short-term rental,influencer on.
Instagram or TikTok, theystarted with buying their first
(33:34):
property with the short termshop and coming through
Management Monday.
So we teach people how to set uptheir listings on Airbnb, vrbo.
You do wanna have a directbooking site, not because you're
gonna get so many directbookings, but because you need
to have that in order tointegrate with Google Vacation
Rentals, which Google VacationRentals.
(33:55):
They're, they've entered thespace, but they're sitting there
we don't know if they're gonnahit the gas on it or throw it
away yet.
Something that you wanna makesure you're set up for if
possible.
We teach people how to use,oops, sorry.
The property managementsoftwares that you'll need.
So there's a number of differentproperty management software
systems that are like reallygreat and easy to use.
(34:17):
We use Hospitable another goodone's Host Away.
There's one called Hostfully.
There's one called Owner Res.
They're all really great.
Owner Res is probably the mostcomprehensive.
It's also the hardest to use.
Gotta have a pricing tool.
So Price Labs or Wheelhouse orBeyond pricing, all great
options that helps to optimizeyour pricing on your calendar to
(34:39):
make sure you're getting bookedfor the highest amount possible.
We also get everybody set upwith a list of vetted vendors,
cleaners, handymen, HVAC techs,roofers everybody you're
probably gonna need at somepoint.
We get everybody set up withthose and and we just make sure
that everyone under base has abasic understanding of how to
use all of those things.
(35:01):
Learning to how to price yourproperty.
So even though you're usingPrice Labs, you still have to go
in there and check.
It's not a set it and forget it.
You kinda have to we look at ourpricing every day and we say,
oh, you know what, we're fiveweeks out.
We're not seeing bookings.
Even though Price Labs has setthe price, I think we need to
drop it a little bit to, to tryand get some masks in the seats.
So definitely just.
(35:22):
Teaching you how to use all thesoftware.
So you need a propertymanagement software, a pricing
tool.
You gotta have Airbnb, vrbo, anda direct booking website to
start off.
Okay.
Are you ever doing So I'mplaying around with some like
price labs, right?
Started to, play around with it.
It's powerful.
(35:44):
I found that it wasn't thatstraightforward.
Like I really had to sit downand go through some of the
tutorials just to figure out howto do some things and how to get
the most outta the theapplication.
But I guess in terms ofoptimizing your listing.
Is there such a thing as likeSEO optimization for VRBO or for
(36:07):
Airbnb or getting granular andtrying to see, okay, how does my
listing rank on some of thesesites?
Or is it more really pricing?
Is pricing really that thingthat you have to master?
Yeah, so that's a greatquestion.
In terms of your listings, sothere are SEO tricks that you
(36:28):
want to use.
You wanna make sure you're usingkeywords that are important to
the guests who are coming tostay.
So you wanna make sure in yourlisting also in just the, how it
looks, that it's not just a big,long black paragraph that people
are not gonna read.
You want it to be bullet pointswith some space in between.
So with ver the very pertinentinformation that they'll need.
(36:49):
So if it's a three bedroom, buta.
It has two beds in every room.
So has six beds.
Yeah.
Then you wanna say six bedsright, up top.
Anything important that theyneed to know, like how close it
is to the main attractions.
Does it have amenities?
Just the things that will, wouldmake somebody wanna book it.
(37:10):
You need it to be right there.
Also you wanna have amazingphotos back, let me back up
before I get to photos.
In your listing a lot of peopleget real caught up in wanting to
make it a cool story.
Is it a dark and stormy night?
And welcome to grandma'sbeautiful cabin and a luxurious
blah, blah, blah.
Wait, it's none of that.
(37:30):
None of those words matter to aguest.
What matters is okay, can I fitmy whole family there?
Are we gonna be comfortable?
What are the amenities?
What do we have to do?
How's the location?
So stop with the flowerystories.
Nobody cares.
Same thing with your headline.
So everybody names theirproperties.
Like I name my properties mainlya, it's fun.
(37:53):
Okay?
It's fun to name your propertieswhere it says like it to have a
name.
When you're looking at aspreadsheet and you've got 10 of
these, it's a lot easier toremember okay, this one's bark
at the moon.
This one is Misty mountain hop.
So we know what we're lookingat, right?
But what a lot of people do isin the headline, which is the
most important piece of realestate on your listing, because
(38:14):
people are gonna see thatwhether they click into your
listing or not.
A lot of people put the name oftheir property in the headline,
which you're wasting a lot ofreally important real estate.
If you've got a ski propertythat ski in, ski out, forget
we're not calling it.
Avery's Alpine getaway in thetop, we are putting, it's ski
in, ski out.
(38:35):
Click on this if you're lookingfor a ski in, ski out.
So make sure that you'reproperly utilizing the real
estate in your headline.
Also, you have to have amazingphotos.
Your iPhone is not good enough.
Everybody says the iPhone hasthe blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
New camera, but you are not aphotographer.
It doesn't matter.
You can give me a paintbrush.
(38:56):
I am not.
Yeah, yeah.
I was gonna say Picasso, but,yeah.
Yeah.
Not whoever you got, you have toget professional photos.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I'm wondering I've heardrecently a lot about boutique
hotels, like people are usingthat for Airbnb.
Do you, what's your thoughtsaround that?
(39:18):
Yes.
Boutique hotels, very logical.
Next step to scaling.
If you want to get into thecommercial side of short-term
rentals, it does seem to be alittle more work for the same
amount of money in terms of howmuch you're spending, how much
you're having to spend on it,and having a bunch of little
(39:39):
rooms instead of one, one unit.
But the plus side is thatcommercial real estate is
appraised based on the incomeapproach, whereas residential is
valued based on sold comps.
So if you've got a short termrental single family that when
you bought it, it was not arental, it was making$0 and you
made it make a hundred thousanddollars a year and you go to
(40:01):
sell it.
It's still valued based on thesold properties around it that
may or may not be rentals.
It's still the same value,whether it makes$0 or a hundred
thousand dollars, whereas amotel or hotel, if you buy one
of those and take it from buy itat it's making 50,000, first
year you get it up to a hundredthousand you've increased the
(40:21):
value of the property.
If you go to sell it now, it'sworth more because you have made
it worth more because it makesmore money.
So commercial real estate isvalued differently.
So if that is a world that youwanna get into, you can get into
a pretty good position of addingequity easier to properties.
(40:42):
But it's also harder to finance,harder to do.
You need actual staff.
It's more difficult than youwith a single family.
Short term rental, you just hirea handyman, a cleaner, you're
good, you're done.
But with hotels, you have tohave a staff.
But they're both, cool.
I've never bought a boutiquehotel, but it's not that I
(41:05):
wouldn't, it's just that I amset in my ways of, I've got my
short-term rentals, I've got mysingle family long-terms, I got
my apartments and in the marketsthat we buy in and we just pick
those off.
It's, see, feels so hard tolearn a new asset class in a new
market at this point.
So we just haven't You stick toyour markets too, or you expand?
(41:26):
For now, yeah.
Yeah, for now I, it's justeasier since now, since we have
so many to just add to thesystems that we already have
now, when we started.
We did five in the Smokies, thenwe shot down to Destin at Destin
30 a Cape, sandblast.
So those are all th threedifferent markets.
(41:46):
'cause we've got differentcleaners for each of them.
But now with as many as we have,like ease and adding to the
existing systems is a little bitbetter.
But we, what a lot of people dois they just buy short-term
rentals where they want avacation.
They'll buy Makes sense.
It's why I started theshort-term shop.
Yeah.
They buy mountain property withme and say, okay, I wanna buy a
(42:07):
beach one.
Who do I buy with at the beach?
And they buy where they wannago.
So that's a strategy too.
Yeah, that makes sense.
You're on vacation, you're doinga little bit of work.
You can probably write it off orsomething you're killing two
birds with one stone.
Yeah.
I guess just to pivot a littlebit so I know you're known as, I
(42:28):
guess I'm gonna say the STRperson or the STR expert, the
short term shop.
But when I look at social mediain the presence it's like you're
the expert social mediainfluencer right?
In, the SDR space.
So I guess, how did you getstarted with that?
(42:50):
How important is it for you andanything you can share a around
that, social media in thisInstagram Oh, yeah.
And things like that.
Oh, I hate social media.
I hate it.
And I, wouldn't even take aselfie until 22 because I
thought it was douchey.
Really, as time has gone on,like you can't be a small
(43:14):
business owner without having agood social media presence and
not just to like.
Hey, buy tires at Bob's tires.
Thanks for coming.
Let me post something once aweek.
Yeah.
Like you have to have a realpresence and be building a
relationship with your audience.
So for me I don't think, wedon't really get, any clients or
(43:35):
leads from social media, but ithelps to have a big presence.
So when we do, when people docome across us, they, and they
go to look us up, they see thisbig presence and go, okay,
they're legit.
So I yeah.
Hate doing social media.
I hate, there's nothing I hatemore than standing right here
and taking videos, sayingthings.
(43:57):
But it has to be done.
That's, just small businessownership these days.
So it, it is what it is, but I'ma, reluctant influencer.
Nice.
Nice.
That's good.
It probably makes you a goodinfluencer then.
Tough.
It's just what I, yeah, I'mgetting into that space and I
(44:18):
have a channel where I'm justsharing real estate tips and
information and just things thatI've picked up along the way.
And it just seems like there'sso much information out there.
It's, overwhelming.
But then I come acrossinformation that is, is not
correct, or it just seems likeit's out there just to catch
(44:40):
views instead of reallyproviding some value.
And that's what I struggle with.
It's just how do you createcontent that's helpful, and, cut
some of that noise and, try toget people to actually see it
because there's just so much outthere.
Yeah, there's a lot of noise.
A lot of noise.
(45:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I could take it back to theshort term rental.
I was just curious to know whereyou see, since you've been in it
for a while and seeing thisevolution where you see it going
from here.
How will it be changing, how,where, the growth opportunities
are, yeah, that's a greatquestion.
(45:23):
So I see more metro marketsimposing anti short-term rental
regulations.
And they should like I if Ilived in Dallas or Houston and
my income was not dependent onshort-term rentals and short
term rentals were a new thing inmy neighborhood, I wouldn't want
'em there either.
And a lot of the hotels hotelsin big cities have a lot of
(45:45):
influence and I think that a lotof the metro areas are gonna
start.
I don't know if they'll alloutright ban them, but
definitely limit them, whichwill commodify a.
Properties in those markets thatare in the zones that allow
them, but b commodify vacationrental real estate, so beach and
(46:06):
mountain real estate even moreto where, hey, this is really
the only type of real estate youcan buy where you can do the
vacation rental strategy.
I, see the, I, see theregulations being imposed.
I'm in Colorado and there's alot of regulations being imposed
in our mountain towns as well.
Do you yeah, these arehistorically vacation towns, so
(46:30):
yeah, that's because the, so thebig conglomerates that own the
ski slopes and everything, theyown all the hotels there.
They, those.
Those are the biggest employersin those towns and they don't
want short-term rentals'causethey want you to rent with them.
They wanna own the short-termrentals.
So it's the same thing as likethe hotel lobbyists in the more
metro type areas.
'cause I love to own a cabin inBreckenridge or somewhere like
(46:54):
that, but those bigconglomerates that own the ski
resorts, they just, it won'thave, won't let it ha won't let
it happen.
Yeah.
And their fees are outrageous.
I was managing a few actually,in, in Vail, and, their fees
were 50%, which I Oh, wow.
Yeah, it was incredible.
(47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
How do you get ahead of that?
We're just, we're talking aboutsome of the regulations and the
different cities.
How do you keep a pulse onwhat's going on in your market
or market you're thinking ofentering, just to see how things
are, shifting or, maybeshifting.
Yeah, just keep an eye on thecity council meetings for sure.
(47:35):
Definitely.
Give the city, if you're insidecity limits or county, if you're
outside, city limits, a callhere and there just to check on
what's coming down the pipe.
I would never recommend buyingsomewhere without, like before
you eat.
Even get a loan pre-approvalbefore you call a real estate
agent call.
Don't take the Internet's wordfor it.
(47:56):
Yeah.
And don't take your, don't takeyour realtor's word for it.
Call ev.
This goes for everything, notjust regulations.
Call the hear from the horse'smouth exactly what the situation
is and what they see coming andmake your decisions accordingly.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I think the the city here, thecity of Boston, they probably
(48:19):
know me by first name now justbecause again, there's a lot of
regulations.
There were things that, thatwere there and in one year they
just came in and interpreted thethings differently and they
became more strict, even thoughthey didn't make an amendment to
the rules.
But things just changed andshifted overnight that affected
(48:41):
the business.
So yeah, so I, I agree 100%.
I, think.
The phone I call, I ask, try topush nicely and just see how
things go.
Yep.
Yeah.
That's all we can do, what aboutI'm curious for people who wanna
try this with their own home youhear a lot about just tiptoe
(49:03):
into this world.
You hear folks who maybe converta basement or a garage or an a
DU of some sort, like any tipsfor such people and do you
recommend it?
Is that a good way to getstarted?
Yeah, so if you're trying to getstarted it's very similar to a
house hack.
(49:24):
So if you're trying to getstarted and you really just,
your biggest expense is usuallyyour primary home mortgage.
So anything you can do to offsetthat, whether it's having
long-term roommates or maybeyou've got a space that you can
turn into a short-term rental togive them their own private
space.
Whatever you need to do to getyourself started to get that
money saved up for a downpayment, do it.
(49:46):
My husband drove Uber, like myhusband was, had a, real job.
He was or still is part-time,but back then he was full-time a
classic rock DJ on Sirius xm.
He was on 12 hours a day and hewould get done with that, get in
the car and go Uber and peoplewould recognize him and say, oh,
aren't you the guy from theradio?
(50:08):
It'd be so embarrassing, oh wow.
They like, I look like I'mdestitute driving Uber he didn't
care.
We gotta have this extra moneyso that we can go invest.
And then now, seven or eightyears later, it's, a fun story
to tell, but back then itsucked.
And you have to do sucky thingsto, to get where you wanna be.
(50:28):
yeah Yeah.
There's the good and the bads.
That's right.
I, have a question for you.
Conferences, so actually this,I'm learning from Louis Louis
always invited me toconferences, network, meet with
other people.
Last year I did a horrible jobat, so this year I'm being more
intentional.
So I guess with conferences, youspeak at a lot of conferences, a
(50:51):
lot of the real estateBiggerPockets the midterm summit
Midterm Rental Summit.
So you're everywhere.
But I guess for you, are thereany conferences that you attend
to get motivated, keep growing,or to get additional education?
Is there anything like that ForAvery call as a attendee.
(51:14):
So I really like theBiggerPockets conference because
it's multiple types of realestate.
So there's usually somethingthere that I haven't heard of or
that I wanna learn more aboutthat I can sit in on.
I try to limit my travel.
We've got two little kids.
They're four and almost said twoand four.
That was years ago.
They're four and six.
And so I, since I speak at somany, have not really been able
(51:39):
to get out and go to any, justto learn, just'cause I don't
like to be away from the kids.
That time will come.
But BiggerPockets conference forme.
Is it?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Nice.
Okay.
All right.
I'm trying to make it out there,so hopefully, I'll see you in
person.
Yeah.
It's in Vegas this year ateither the midterm or the
BiggerPockets.
Yeah.
(52:00):
Great.
Avery, we like to end off withthese four regular questions we
ask of all our guests.
We call'em our world famousWayfinder four.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
All right.
The first one is can you sharewith us a hack that you use just
like a life hack?
This is gonna sound very triteand like a broken record, but,
(52:24):
waking up early 4:00 AM everyday.
My husband and I both not on thesame floor of the house.
I don't want him coming up to mylevel of the house and talking
to me.
I'm not waking up early to talkto you.
I'm waking up early to get workdone.
We both wake up at four, workfrom four to six.
He actually, he runs a lot ofmarathons.
He's crazy, but so he runs,he'll work for an hour and then
(52:45):
go run.
And then kids wake up at six andwe get the day going then.
But really, you just get a lotof those things that will pile
up on you.
Finished.
Early in the morning whenthere's nobody else awake,
pinging you for things orcalling you or emailing you or,
no, there's no fires to put out.
So that's probably the, and Ijust think better first thing in
the morning.
(53:06):
So that's my biggest hack.
That, and I quit drinking sixyears ago and that's been like a
game changer too.
'cause you're, you sleep so muchbetter.
You wake up, you're, I was tothe point where, I guess it just
happens when you get old.
I'd have one glass of wine afterwork and in the morning I'm
like, what is this headache?
Why am I foggy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Quitting drinking like made ahuge difference too, just with
(53:27):
sleep and hydration and anxiety.
I had terrible anxiety, sogetting rid of that cut it.
That makes sense.
It's also you save a lot ofmoney.
I, I.
At least I find myself when I'mdoing dry January or something
like that.
It's you spend a lot, thesethings are, it's expensive.
Yeah.
Yes, it is.
(53:48):
I'll, do the second one.
So your favorite something, Idon't know if it's a book song
or tell us about your, favoritesomething.
I guess my favorite something myfavorite band, our family's
favorite band kiss.
My husband and I have seen them,I don't know a ton of times.
We've got all the we've got tonsof KISS memorabilia in the
(54:09):
house.
In our old house we had a kissroom that had kiss murals on
every wall.
We took the kids to see Kiss'final show at Madison Square
Garden in December of 2023.
It was awesome.
So we love rock and roll aroundhere, but KISS is a family
tradition at this point.
That's cool.
Taking the kids to a, band orwhatever that you like, grew up
(54:30):
and love and with and love isthe best feeling, isn't it?
Oh yeah.
Listen, my kids have quite alist of band.
They've seen the Rolling Stones,they've seen AC DC, they've seen
Judas Priest, iron Maiden, likeany classic rock and metal.
They've seen elt.
No, I haven't seen El no.
They've seen Billy Joel so, manygreat ones.
(54:53):
The Eagles legends.
Yeah Give us a piece of advicefor your younger self.
For my younger self, youcouldn't tell me anything when I
was younger.
But for people who might beyounger than me at this point, I
mean I, the biggest thing for meis I just wish I would've
started earlier and everybodyacts like, oh, you can't start
(55:15):
now.
You can't start now.
And everybody's always gonna saythat no matter when now is
yesterday is always gonna havebeen the best time.
But the second best time istoday.
And I do think the way the realestate market is right now, it's
dead guys.
It is dead.
Like I said, if you were homesold 2023 and 2024, then in the
last 65 years, and when Istarted investing in 2013,
(55:36):
everybody was like, no you, hadto invest in 2009 and 2010 right
after the crash.
Now it doesn't make sense.
I truly do think people will in10 years, maybe even five years,
look at 20, 23 and 24 as damn, Iwish I would've bought then as
another 2008.
Yeah, like we didn't see the bigprice drop.
But I think that people aregonna look at this and go, man,
(55:56):
I should have bought then.
I'm with you there.
I agree.
Yeah.
Choice between a big opportunityor a limited belief.
Okay.
A limiting belief that I have.
Yeah.
Yes.
Or wait, what's, what does a bigopportunity mean?
So really it's anything how,does that resonate with you?
(56:19):
Pick one of those two and, chatabout it what maybe a big
opportunity that you see outthere, or limited beliefs you
have and how you overcome itkind of thing.
Okay.
I think a big limiting beliefthat everybody has when they
start investing in real estateis that they don't have enough
money or that they can't, that,that they don't have enough
money, they don't have enoughknowledge and.
(56:41):
It really, you will find a wayto do the things that you
prioritize.
I regularly get peoplecommenting on my social media
you're crazy.
You can't, we can't even savefor a bag of chips today.
Get an extra job.
Nobody wants to hear that.
Maybe cut.
If I had to cut out my bar tabwhen I was 21, I would've saved
(57:03):
a lot of money.
I, know you, it sounds so Isound like such an old man like
boomer.
You can't save your way towealth, but you can, if you want
to prioritize bringing in anextra income so that you can
just get to that down payment toget started, you can do that.
Anybody can do that, but peopledon't wanna hear that.
(57:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
And you know what real estate I.
One of the other things, a deal,and you can find the money for a
deal even if you don't have any.
Yeah.
I can't tell you.
Jesus was saying how we go, I goto a conference that was just
what went in Las Vegas two weeksago, and we're all there a bunch
of old brokers sharing deals ofall different sorts are from
(57:46):
around the country.
Half the people who were therewere just there with money to
give to people to invest.
You know what I'm saying?
To so not having money is not anexcuse to get in into real
estate.
You don't get to keep as much ofthe pie.
But you still get a piece of it,and that's better than nothing.
Yeah.
(58:07):
I like to think that if you setthe intention right, so if you.
You wanna buy a home, okay?
You don't have the down paymentyet.
But if you set the intention of,okay how can I get the money?
How can I do it?
Now you're opening it up andsometimes money will come to
you, right?
You, wouldn't even be able tomake it up.
But one way, one how, some way,somehow it'll, come to you.
(58:30):
You can figure it out.
You can get another job or youcan do something to make it
happen.
But you have to begin with just,Hey the intention of this is
what I'm gonna do, and we'llfigure it out along the way.
Totally.
I think if you just shutyourself down at the beginning
then, that's it.
As soon it's not gonna happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(58:50):
Avery, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
If people wanna know a littlebit more about you, maybe get
your books, where can they dothat?
I.
So best place to go is ourwebsite, the shortterm shop.com,
or you can follow the Shorttermshop on Instagram.
It's at the short-term shop.
If you wanna follow mepersonally, I'm at the Avery
(59:11):
Carl.
You can pick up the book, bothof the books.
Probably the best deal is gonnabe on the BiggerPockets
Bookstore, so it'sbiggerpockets.com/smarter str.
You can get'em in Amazon, or onAmazon, sorry, or wherever books
are sold.
You can walk into Barnes andNoble and pick one up, which is
pretty cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, anywhere books are sold,but website, Instagram, find us
(59:32):
there.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time,Avery.
This is also, like you said, wesurprised you at the beginning,
but Jesus has been a specialguest cohost here.
So if people want to connectwith you, Jesus, where can they
do that?
Instagram, it's not a fancyname.
I'm working, out all the pieces.
(59:54):
It's just, Hey, j 6, 6 1.
So it's.
Simple.
So like Jesus, J G hey.
J-E-S-U-S-J 6, 6 1 6, 6 1.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Oh thank you guys.
It's been a lot of fun.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
(01:00:14):
Yes.
We hope you've enjoyed theWayfinder Show.
If you've got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a five starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
And still to this day, 250 doorslater, every dollar that we make
(00:03):
on real estate investments.
So every dollar that cashflowgoes back into buying more real
estate.
We don't live on our investmentincome, which I think is the
biggest mistake that people makein their first two or three
deals.
(00:25):
Welcome to the Wayfinder Showwith Louis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
areas of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:47):
Come join us and find a way toyour dream life.
Avery Carl (01:01):
We've been lifelong friends, but you're here because
we have a guest coming up thatis of interest to you and your
business, right?
Yeah.
No, abs.
Absolutely.
Yeah I'm really, excited to meetAvery and to get to to speak
with her and why?
And I can't even, just'cause Ithink the knowledge and the
(01:24):
experience that she has, right?
So I think this is anopportunity to chat with
someone, who's normally not inmy circle.
It's not in my space, right?
I know she does a lot of, a lotof podcasts, a lot of
interviews, and she speaks at alot of conferences.
(01:44):
But I'm assuming that even inthose spaces, it's difficult to
have a one-on-one, right?
Everyone is fighting for herattention.
So today, right?
We actually have thatopportunity.
So I think that's super awesome.
And just, and why is sheimportant to you?
Because she's doing what I wannado.
(02:06):
She's doing it in the realestate space from a STR
perspective, right?
It's something that I started todo a year and a half, two years
ago.
I have my feet wet.
I'm transitioning some of mylong-term properties to STR.
But there's still a lot for meleft to learn, right?
(02:27):
I don't think you ever finishedlearning.
And she's been in the STR spacefor a very long time.
And I wanna say that when youthink of short term rentals and
Airbnbs and you think of theexperts.
Avery call comes up all thetime.
She says the top of the list.
(02:47):
She, absolutely is.
So from my perspective, it'sreally I wanna learn what are
some of the tips and tricks?
What are some of the insights?
How do you maximize profitprofitability?
How do you minimize vacanciesexpenses?
Those are some of the thingsthat can make and break your
(03:09):
business.
When you're talking about strit's very different than long
term.
So yeah.
So I'm excited to see what shehas to share.
Yeah.
And what, what gems, ortakeaways I can get and and then
try to incorporate those into mybusiness.
Yeah.
And Jesus, you have, tell us alittle bit about your, business
(03:32):
though.
How, like where are your strwhere, how many you have?
Yeah.
All that.
Actually, lemme even take it alittle bit back.
Let me dumb this down a littlebit more.
I know you, you are alsobuilding a big following
yourself and Correct thatfollowing is very niche
specific.
So they all know what an STR is,but my followers don't.
The people listening to theWayfinder show may or may not.
(03:52):
So just for, I may back it up alittle bit and just say define
things.
STR is a short term rental.
Some people just call the mostcommon platform is Airbnb.
Correct.
So a lot of people just callthem Airbnbs.
But STR is short term.
And, it's usually less than 28days.
(04:14):
So when we think of, when wetalk about st, everyone thinks
Airbnb, just like you mentioned,and it's usually less than 28
day stays.
Then there's this new categoryor what I consider a new
category called midterm rentals,MTRs.
And this is usually 29, 30 daysto about six months.
(04:36):
In my business it is a lot oftravel nurses digital nomads
contractors that are coming intoan area to work for one month
plus.
So those are the folks that fallinto that MTR space.
There's other avatars that do,but for my business those are
the primary people that, Iengage in and that I host.
(05:01):
As far as my portfolio, so Istarted off with long-term.
So our first unit was our firstbuilding multi-family
residential and commercial allin one.
So the residential piece workingwith the tenants, working with
the property, making sure thateverything is kept up well and
(05:25):
trying to mitigate issues assoon as possible.
I had to learn that.
That, that was on theresidential side the commercial
space is something completelydifferent.
If you think they're both thesame, that is not the case.
I made a lot of errors on thecommercial side just with the
leases themselves.
(05:45):
I, there are so many things thatthat I've learned now, but, it's
just kinda Yeah.
Kind of part of that journey.
That's where the majority of myexperience is.
It's in residentialmultifamilies and then some of
the commercial space.
I have a few multifamilybuildings majority in Boston.
(06:09):
I have, I do have one inAttleborough.
I know we were talking aboutthat the other day.
It's the next town over is RhodeIsland where you grew up.
Okay.
So I do have one in your area.
And then the other, propertiesare here in the Boston area.
Yeah.
Why did you switch to short-termrental?
I listened to a lot of podcasts.
(06:29):
I listened to a lot of YouTubeinterviews and I had a lot of
friends, local friends that weredoing Airbnbs, and they kept
telling me, Jesus, you have tolook at this.
You have to check it out.
You have to give this a try.
And I think sometimes it alwaysseems like the grass is greener
no matter what someone tellsyou, it always that sounds like
(06:52):
too much work.
I don't know.
And I hesitated and then onetime I found a good opportunity
to test it out.
I had a finished basement in oneof my multi-families and I was
like, you know what?
I'm.
Let me try this Airbnb thing inthis space, right?
I'm not losing anything per se.
(07:16):
Invested some money renovatedthe space, then we furnished it.
Again, I'm putting money in.
I haven't even applied for thepermit.
So it was like, it's scary.
Oh, we're doing this or we'redoing this but I went all in.
I wouldn't advise folks to dothat.
But I went all in.
(07:36):
Luckily things worked out and,four months, five months in this
little basement apartment orstudio was making almost as much
as one of my regular threebedroom apartments.
And now, again to put things inperspective, it is season.
(07:57):
So in six months I was able tosee why people were so all in to
Airbnb.
I was able to see when they talkabout, oh, you can get up to
three times the amount ofregular rent I.
I saw that I received the 10 99from Airbnb at the end of the
year, and I think that's when itreally hits you.
(08:19):
Like when you see all thenumbers together, you're like,
holy crap, we made how much?
Like that's that light bulbmoment.
And obviously you have expenses,you have utilities, you have
these different things that,that still come into play.
But that was an eyeopener for meand I was like, okay, yeah,
there may be an opportunityhere.
(08:41):
All right.
Hi Avery.
Hey, how are you?
Okay, so Avery, we're tryingsomething different with you.
I hope you don't mind.
We already started recording.
We have a special guest host onOkay, cool.
Who's a big fan of yours.
Okay.
Surprise.
I'm awesome.
Love it.
Yeah, we, we, started doingsomething on the Wayfinder Show.
(09:05):
I have a newsletter that comesout and on there I have all the
guests who are coming up who arescheduled, and yours was on
there.
And Jesus is a friend of minefrom.
Back in college.
We've been friends for 30 yearsnow.
And and he's been doing theshort term rental thing in
Boston recently.
So once you get into thatsomehow we, we find you you're,
always, you start looking forwho's doing it right.
(09:26):
And your name always comes up.
So he's I wanna be down for thatepisode.
So I thanks.
I had to bribe, I had to bribeLouis to be on the show today.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
And luckily, the check didn'teven bounce, man.
It cashed real smooth.
You know why?
Because of your short termrental business, so that's good.
(09:46):
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
Avery, if you don't mind meintroducing you, I wrote a Yeah,
sure.
A little bit here about you.
You're the you're the founderand CEO of the short term shop
the nation's top real estatebrokerage specializing in
short-term rental investmentproperties.
As an investor herself, Averybuilt a portfolio of 240 plus
(10:08):
stores leveraging short-termrentals to a scale into larger,
to scale into largerinvestments.
You've written the book.
On short term rentals calledShort-Term Rental, Long-Term
Wealth, and you've been featuredin Forbes, business Insider,
wall Street Journal, and otherpublications for your expertise
in helping clients build wealththrough short term rentals.
(10:30):
So yeah, Avery.
Carl, welcome to the WayfinderShow.
Yeah, thank you for having me.
Oh, what a welcome.
Yeah, thank you for coming on.
It is exciting.
C we start where we usually dowhich is just let people know a
little bit about your journey.
How'd you get into this mess ofshort term rent rentals and
(10:52):
where's it gone?
This mess of real estateinvesting.
Sure, yeah.
Yeah.
I bought my first rentalproperty.
It was a long term rentalbecause.
My husband and I had saved uplike$10,000.
We'd just gotten married.
I had what I thought was mydream job, working in the music
(11:13):
business in Nashville, gotten mymaster's degree all to make
$37,000 a year because the musicbusiness, it sounds very sexy.
And because of that, people willdo it for no money.
Just to say they were in a roomwith some stupid country music
singer last night and so there'salways somebody who will do it
for less.
So anyway, I was making nothing.
(11:33):
Had a little bit of money savedup and I wa I was super into
personal finance at the time.
It still am in a lot of ways,but not the way that I was.
And I was reading all the DaveRamsey books and trying to make
sure we got off to the rightstart in our marriage
financially and.
What can we do with this money?
So it's not just like sitting inthe bank and said, let's go to a
(11:55):
financial planner and havesomebody tell us what to do.
And so we went to an EdwardJones office.
This lady, I can't even rememberher name, but thank God she did
this.
We went in there and told her alittle bit about us, what we
wanted to do, and she basicallytold us we didn't have enough
money for her to bother us.
(12:16):
Oh my gosh.
Oh, great.
Okay.
So we left.
And on the way home we werethinking, we were talking like
what do we do?
There's gotta be something wecan do with this to make it grow
rather than just let it sit.
And our realtor who we had justmoved.
From New York City to Nashvilleabout a year and a half earlier.
(12:39):
And she had really been tryingto get us to buy in this super
hip, fast, appreciating area ofNashville.
She kept harping on like howfast it's appreciating.
And we were like, eh, no.
We're moving from Brooklyn toTennessee.
We're done with neighbors.
We had two neighbors, firstfloor, Steve and second floor,
Steve and our like brownstonethat we lived in.
It was like, we don't want anymore of that.
So we said, we wanna be out inthe country.
(13:00):
And she said, okay.
So we bought something out inthe country and never thought
about it again.
And, but I thought about afteron the way home from being told
that we were too broke to botherwith that.
What if we saved up a little bitmore?
'cause at the time, houses inNashville were like a hundred
thousand dollars.
And what if we saved up a littlebit more and bought one of
those, put a renter in it sowe're not paying the bills on
(13:22):
it.
And then in 25 years, wheneverwe decide to have.
Kids and they grow up and needto go to college, then we'll be
able to just sell it, pay fortheir college outta that
appreciation, and we'll be thesegreat financial geniuses that
didn't have to pay out of ourown income and savings.
And so we did it.
We just went and bought one.
Nice.
(13:43):
Yeah, we had to save up a littlebit more.
Another 5,000 ish because youcan put 15% down on an
investment property.
A lot of people don't realizethat.
And bought one withoutresearching, without anything.
This is 2013 and there werelike, there were no YouTube
channels, no gurus really.
There were probably a few, butso we bought one and the
(14:05):
mortgage on that was 650, 640$7a month, and we were able to
rent it out for 1550.
So almost a thousand dollars.
That's not bad at all, which,yeah.
Yeah.
Not bad for not knowing whatyou're doing on a long-term
rental.
And coincidentally it's abouthow much I was making at my
dream job after all thedeductions and stuff on my
(14:27):
paycheck a month.
So we thought, man, this houseis making as much money as me
and I'm going to work all dayand it's doing it I could be
doing whatever while that'shappening.
So we said we need more ofthese.
What?
And then we started listening tolike the BiggerPockets podcast,
which was about it.
Back then there was really justthe BiggerPockets podcast and
(14:48):
learning about real estateinvesting.
We didn't even know it wascalled Real Estate Investing
when we bought that first one.
Most people do that the otherway around.
They research and then they buysomething.
So anyway, we saved up a littlemore and we thought what can we
buy that's gonna make us themost amount of money the fastest
so that we can buy more?
And the goal was not to quit myjob.
The goal was not to get rich.
(15:09):
The goal was to buy more.
We need.
More.
And so we landed on short-termrentals, but we knew we didn't
wanna do it in Nashville.
Nashville's very anti short-termrental.
We could not afford to be toldthat we couldn't do it.
So we'd just been on vacation tothe Smokey Mountains in Pigeon
Forge, four hours east ofNashville.
We'd stayed in a rental cabin.
(15:30):
All our friends had stayed indifferent rental cabins and
somebody owned those cabins.
Those are short-term rentals.
Okay, let's do that in a placewhere it's like the normal thing
to do.
So we like scraped all thepennies outta the bottom of my
purse and in between the carseats and made a down payment on
one of those.
And again, there were no, peopleon Instagram with yellow
subtitles telling you the fivebiggest mistakes that short-term
(15:53):
rental owners make.
And so we just figured out howto manage it ourselves remotely
from four hours away.
One thing led to another, scaledthat to about five over the next
18 months.
Started throwing some long-termrentals in there.
Started my company.
The short term shop about fouryears later.
So we bought that first shortterm in 2015, started the short
(16:14):
term shop, or what wouldeventually become a short-term
shop in 2017.
'cause there weren't really anyagents in the space who could
answer our basic questions like,how much should this make?
Or is this a better rental onthis side of town or that side
of town?
What rents better?
Nobody knew those things.
So I just started as a singleagent.
We had friends and I wasn'treally even gonna become a real
(16:35):
estate agent, but friends wouldsay, oh, you're making how much
on that cabin in the Smokies.
Help me buy one.
Teach me how to do that.
And then it just grew to friendsof friends and then people that
we didn't know.
And then people were saying,Hey, is there somebody like you
that I can talk to in Dustin,Florida?
And I'm like not that I know of,but let's put a me there.
And then the short term shop wasborn, and so now we've got.
(16:58):
2020 offices, 60 agents.
We've helped over 5,000investors buy and sell
short-term rentals.
Sold over a little over 3billion in short-term rentals
since about 2019.
And then I've grown my personalportfolio to about 250 doors.
Eight of those are shortterm.
The rest are more traditional,long terms and, multifamily.
So that's it.
(17:20):
Yeah.
That's impressive.
I got a quick question for you.
So when you were doing the soyou get into the first STR and
then you just begin to, buy morein the Smokey Mountains area.
Are you looking at, okay, what'sthe threshold or what's the
number before you buy the nextone?
How are you figuring out when,to buy that, that next STR?
(17:45):
So for us, back then, it was assoon as we had a big enough down
payment.
As soon as we had the downpayment, we were buying another
one.
And also we were a lot younger.
We didn't have kids, so we couldafford to operate that way in a
way that we would not operatetoday.
But every dollar, and still tothis day, 250 doors later, every
(18:08):
dollar that we make on realestate investments.
So every dollar that cashflowgoes back into buying more real
estate.
Yes.
We don't live on our investmentincome, which I think is the
biggest mistake that people makein their first two or three
deals.
Yeah, no, that makes a lot ofsense.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How have you seen the STR worldevolved since then?
(18:31):
You started by looking intoSmoky Mountains Oh my goodness.
Over now and yeah.
Yeah.
So it's evolved.
Quite a bit.
So when I started in 2015 I wishwe knew then what we know now
with the, what the prices ofreal estate were back then.
And, I would've bought athousand before 2020 hit.
(18:55):
So I think that there, there waslike a perfect storm of
popularity of the short-termrental asset class starting in
2020.
The vacation rental, which iswhat I invest in, I like to
separate that out from thelarger short-term rental asset
class.
I only do vacation rentals.
So in vacation markets whereit's been the normal thing for
(19:17):
people to go rent a cabin or abeach house or a condo, lake
house, forever, decades, mygrandmother's been coming down
here to Dustin, Florida andrenting a place since the
thirties.
Wow.
I like areas that have thatlongevity of the asset class.
So it's not a new asset class atall, but when Airbnb came along,
it democratized it and made itan asset class where you could
(19:37):
actually cashflow.
Whereas before you were beholdento all the local property
management companies, they werecharging 40% of your gross.
'cause what are you gonna do?
You have no other option exceptrent it with them or not rent it
at all.
And Airbnb changed that andactually made it a viable as
like investible asset class andnot just a toy, like a boat.
(19:59):
So that kind of started catchingon, I would say in 2016.
Then you get up to COVID in 2020and it exploded.
All real estate exploded in 2020with a 2% interest rates.
My chihuahua could have bought.
Real estate then, like everybodywas buying real estate.
A lot of people, it shouldn'thave been buying real estate.
(20:20):
So we saw a big influx ininventory of short-term rentals
because everybody bought one'cause They'd say, oh my God,
the payment on a beach house isgonna be what I can handle.
That.
That's, and it's something thatpeople, everybody's always
wanted a vacation home.
I don't care who you are.
Yeah, Everybody has not alwayssaid, you know what, I'd really
like to have a 32 unit apartmentcomplex in Omaha, Nebraska.
(20:42):
But they have said, Hey, I'dlike to have a beach house.
I'd like to have a mountainhouse.
So that coolness, like the, thatthing that everybody's always
wanted became attainable.
And then Airbnb, oh, let me justslap it on Airbnb.
That thing's coming up that's,gaining steam.
It's in the news.
So all these people that didn'tneed to be buying properties
that were not treating'em like abusiness, had the ability to buy
properties and did not treatthem like a business because
(21:06):
they wanted these.
Sexy assets.
So what happened was a lot ofpeople got their asses handed to
'em in 20 21, 22.
They called it the Airbnb bust,which it was not a bust.
And I'll explain why here in aminute.
But, since 2022, the supplyinflux has cooled off.
The tides gone back out on that.
(21:28):
A lot of the markets that theywere calling saturated because
they had a lot of supply, are nolong.
They're back on the list of bestplaces to invest because that
supply has shrunk and demand hasalways been there.
But supply just went way overhere for a minute, but it's come
back down to reality now.
Those markets that have thatheavy tourism, decades long
(21:52):
proven tourism like your JoshuaTree.
Orlando Destin, Florida, theSmokies, all those places now
that supply has shrunk, havereally bumped back up to being
not quite, not fully recovered,but definitely like we're a very
stabilized asset class, which isgood that needed to happen.
So we're stabilized just likeapartment buildings, just like
(22:14):
single family long-term.
One thing though that back tothe Airbnb bus thing that I
wanna highlight is yes, between2021 and 2023 short-term rental
incomes, rents went down.
But what people didn't realizeis that most people have not
owned prior to 2020.
So they were only looking at,okay man, I made all this money
(22:35):
in 2020.
It went down, actually bumpedback up some, it increased in
2024.
So we saw a little bit of abounce there.
But when you're only lookingfrom 2020 to 2024, you're like,
oh, damn, it's an bus.
But if you back that y axis.
Up, I guess it's a y-axis.
I barely know statistics.
(22:55):
That other line on the left handside up to 2015, it is a very
steady trending upwards.
Like it, it's not a bust from2020 to 24, it's more of a blip.
So to give you like a real lifeanecdote, properties that we
were happy to make 45,000 a yearon in 2015 that we still own,
(23:16):
they went up to I think 85,000was the most we ever made on'em
in 2022.
Oh wow.
But we're still in the highseventies, so that's not a bus.
Guys.
You just gotta back it up andlook at the bigger picture.
So is this sort of, if you gotin early and you understood what
the numbers should be instead ofthe blip, but if.
(23:39):
If you're being conservativewith, okay, you know what, this
is how much I expect to make peryear on Airbnb.
If you were conservative onthose numbers, then you probably
would've been okay throughoutthe duration where, hey, if it's
going higher than then that'sgood, but, you're not relying on
this high amount maybe to, payfor the mortgage or, to pay for
(24:01):
some of the expenses.
Do you think that would've beensomething to take into
consideration?
Yeah, so I think there were alot of people didn't run numbers
conservatively enough, butreally what the biggest mistake
that I saw people make wasthinking, okay, I've bought a
really nice house in a greatmarket.
(24:21):
I'm done.
It's gonna make money.
I don't have to do anythingelse.
But it is a business that you dohave.
It's not a hard business to run.
It's easy.
You can do it from the bed orthe bar or the gym or wherever
you wanna be, but it is you dohave to set your systems up and
you have to manage well.
So I think most people makes,there we're either in that camp
(24:43):
or the, FOMO camp of, okay, it's2021, there's a hundred offers
on every single thing.
So I'm gonna maybe scoot alittle bit further away from the
attraction.
Maybe they bought something alittle bit weird, a little too
far away, not the typicalaesthetic for the market.
So like in mountain markets,people typically want cabins.
If you go buy a brick ranchhome,'cause it was easier to
(25:03):
get,'cause there weren't as manyoffers.
It's not gonna rent as well asthe more popular styles of
properties.
So it was a number of things.
Okay.
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah.
What do you use for.
I, imagine you have really goodsystems for criteria developing
what, is the criteria for yourproperty in terms of numbers,
(25:24):
ratios all that.
You already mentioned you likevacation spots, but what about
the numbers?
Yeah, so for me, the numbers, Iwanna see a property that can
get to not, that is doing, thatcan get to a 15% cash on cash
return.
Used to be 20%.
(25:45):
Those days are gone, but 15%,like really well, that, that's a
really good number.
Now I'm not looking forproperties that are sitting
there.
Doing that now.
'cause you're not gonna findthat on the MLS I'm looking for
properties where the opportunityis there to push them at the
price that I'm able to get'emfor up above that 15% mark.
(26:05):
So whether that's I have themost luck, honestly, with
properties where the listingagents took bad pictures and
nobody looked at'em.
Nobody went to look at It'salways the best person because
they look like crap on theinternet.
Yeah.
Or they are they, yeah, I've hadtwo.
They listed something wrong.
Yeah.
I've had some bigger deals thatway.
Yeah.
I've seen, yeah.
Or yeah, they listed somethingwrong.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(26:25):
I'd argue that's the number onestrategy for every real estate
investment is just look on theML mls for really bad pictures,
dark pictures, overpriced, yeah,But people will be like I don't,
that's not I, want a nicer beachhouse than that.
And this one doesn't look thatnice.
So they kinda let their personalpreferences get involved with
it.
'cause Agains not the apartmentbuilding in Omaha.
(26:47):
It's my beach house.
There's a little bit of thattoo, but ugliest property in the
best location, worst picture,highest days on market.
Overpriced, low balling.
I just got a deal new Orleansfor$60,000 off a 700,000
purchase price.
Just because it had been onmarket for a while and offered
(27:09):
low and they said no at first.
And then we said, okay there'sthis other one that we're
looking at too.
And yeah, it's very similarlypriced.
Whoever will give us the bestdeal is who we're gonna go with.
And this seller was, had beenliving there, and she was moving
away and she was finally like,okay, fine.
Yeah, I'll just do it.
Yeah.
(27:29):
She gave up.
Yeah, she did.
Avery, I'm curious you so isvaluation not as important as
long as you're getting that 15%cash on cash?
Because you, like you mentionedthis one at 60,000 off of 700
like if you're still gonna get,would you pay the 700 if you're
still gonna get the 15% cash oncash?
(27:51):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
So that does, so valu, the basisis not as important as your
potential cash on cash, is thatright?
There's no real rules of thumbanymore.
I know everybody's got one, andI don't really subscribe to
anyone's because there's nothingthat works across the board.
There's no rule of thumb thatworks all the time for
(28:13):
everybody's situation.
So if at the end of the day, theend of the year, the amount of
cash that you're gonna have leftover is worth the amount of
money that you have to put downand the effort and the time it
takes you to manage this thing,if that's worth it to you, then
it's a good deal.
Yeah.
When you're looking at theAirbnbs, 15% cash on cash
(28:37):
return.
Is it primarily with the ownermanaging the Airbnb?
Do you ever look at, hey, we'regonna put a co-host to manage
this and adding that expense andseeing if, you get the 15% cash
on cash?
So here's, what I do.
(28:57):
I use VAs, we train our own VAsokay.
To, help us manage because atthe end of the day, it's
significantly cheaper.
To illustrate that.
So we've got eight properties,eight short terms, and if I was
gonna pay a co-host or aproperty manager 20%, which is
pretty standard, I'd have paidsomebody$250,000 last year to do
(29:19):
a$50,000 a year tops.
Job.
So it just stops making sense.
Yeah.
After a while.
So for me, I prefer the VAroute, which is what we teach
you in the new book.
Nice.
Is how to set up your systemsand how to train VAs, how to set
(29:39):
up your standard operatingprocedure.
It's not all about VAs, butthere's a lot of systems,
processes, operations in thereto help you optimize so that
again, you're not having tooutsource a quarter of a million
dollars for a one person admintask.
Makes sense.
(29:59):
Any, since we're talking aboutthe book I read short Term
Rental, Long-Term Wealth.
I, heard it.
I'm all about audio books at thegym or something.
What I really liked about thebook some of the tips that you
share i, like that you providedhey, these are some of the
applications, these are some ofthe tools that I use.
And I thought that it was apretty straightforward blue
(30:23):
blueprint.
If you say if you're wanna startout, you're hearing a lot about
Airbnbs.
It was pretty straightforward asfar as these are the things that
you need to do.
With the new book, smarterShort-Term Rentals, how is that
different or what can some ofthe readers expect as compared
(30:44):
to the previous book?
Yeah, that's a great question.
So the first book, Short-TermRental, Long-Term Wealth, was,
I.
More of a primer.
Okay, this is how to, this ishow to choose a market.
These are the different types ofmarkets, these are the types of
properties, how to choose aproperty, how to analyze how to
finance, just the wholeinvestment structure.
(31:04):
And this one builds on a fewconcepts from that book in terms
of things that have changedabout financing since that one
was written in 2020.
But really it's more on thebusiness side of optimizing your
short term.
Basically taking whateverproperty you may already have
and making that better maythrough your own management.
(31:26):
So it's really for new orexperienced investors, whereas
the previous ones really likefor new investors.
Okay.
Gotcha.
That's, I'm excited.
How do you I'm curious how doyou go and find your cleaning,
maintenance, your boots on theground for a market that you
don't live in?
Yeah.
(31:46):
That.
That's a great question.
So I, that's why I like verytried and true vacation towns
because it's gonna be very easyto find those types of people
because there's, the industry ofvacation rentals is so
established in those types ofmarkets.
So it's gonna be a lot easier toplug your business in, Destin
(32:07):
Florida than in Columbus,Mississippi, because short-term
rentals, vacation rentals havebeen such a big piece of the
economy in Destin for the lastcentury.
And in Columbus you're gonna getpeople who may be coming to
visit the military base.
You're gonna have to find acleaner who probably cleans
primary homes that you're gonnahave to teach'em how to turn a
(32:28):
vacation rental.
It's a different process andit's just DA different thing.
So for me, I prefer the big welltraveled vacation towns because
it's so much easier to findthose vendors that you need.
There's a huge infrastructure of'em.
Yeah.
Yeah, That makes a lot of sense.
Thanks.
Yeah.
(32:49):
So let's say you've helpedsomeone buy an STR the listing
is live.
How do you help them maximizethe profit or, minimize the
vacancy?
And I guess the question thatI'm really getting to as, is it
primarily Airbnb that you relyon?
Are there other sites or OTAsthat, that you use or what does
(33:12):
that look like?
Yeah, So we put all of our buyerclients through a free course
for our buyers that we callManagement Monday, and nine
times outta 10, if you arefollowing a US based real estate
investor, short-term rental,influencer on.
Instagram or TikTok, theystarted with buying their first
(33:34):
property with the short termshop and coming through
Management Monday.
So we teach people how to set uptheir listings on Airbnb, vrbo.
You do wanna have a directbooking site, not because you're
gonna get so many directbookings, but because you need
to have that in order tointegrate with Google Vacation
Rentals, which Google VacationRentals.
(33:55):
They're, they've entered thespace, but they're sitting there
we don't know if they're gonnahit the gas on it or throw it
away yet.
Something that you wanna makesure you're set up for if
possible.
We teach people how to use,oops, sorry.
The property managementsoftwares that you'll need.
So there's a number of differentproperty management software
systems that are like reallygreat and easy to use.
(34:17):
We use Hospitable another goodone's Host Away.
There's one called Hostfully.
There's one called Owner Res.
They're all really great.
Owner Res is probably the mostcomprehensive.
It's also the hardest to use.
Gotta have a pricing tool.
So Price Labs or Wheelhouse orBeyond pricing, all great
options that helps to optimizeyour pricing on your calendar to
(34:39):
make sure you're getting bookedfor the highest amount possible.
We also get everybody set upwith a list of vetted vendors,
cleaners, handymen, HVAC techs,roofers everybody you're
probably gonna need at somepoint.
We get everybody set up withthose and and we just make sure
that everyone under base has abasic understanding of how to
use all of those things.
(35:01):
Learning to how to price yourproperty.
So even though you're usingPrice Labs, you still have to go
in there and check.
It's not a set it and forget it.
You kinda have to we look at ourpricing every day and we say,
oh, you know what, we're fiveweeks out.
We're not seeing bookings.
Even though Price Labs has setthe price, I think we need to
drop it a little bit to, to tryand get some masks in the seats.
So definitely just.
(35:22):
Teaching you how to use all thesoftware.
So you need a propertymanagement software, a pricing
tool.
You gotta have Airbnb, vrbo, anda direct booking website to
start off.
Okay.
Are you ever doing So I'mplaying around with some like
price labs, right?
Started to, play around with it.
It's powerful.
(35:44):
I found that it wasn't thatstraightforward.
Like I really had to sit downand go through some of the
tutorials just to figure out howto do some things and how to get
the most outta the theapplication.
But I guess in terms ofoptimizing your listing.
Is there such a thing as likeSEO optimization for VRBO or for
(36:07):
Airbnb or getting granular andtrying to see, okay, how does my
listing rank on some of thesesites?
Or is it more really pricing?
Is pricing really that thingthat you have to master?
Yeah, so that's a greatquestion.
In terms of your listings, sothere are SEO tricks that you
(36:28):
want to use.
You wanna make sure you're usingkeywords that are important to
the guests who are coming tostay.
So you wanna make sure in yourlisting also in just the, how it
looks, that it's not just a big,long black paragraph that people
are not gonna read.
You want it to be bullet pointswith some space in between.
So with ver the very pertinentinformation that they'll need.
(36:49):
So if it's a three bedroom, buta.
It has two beds in every room.
So has six beds.
Yeah.
Then you wanna say six bedsright, up top.
Anything important that theyneed to know, like how close it
is to the main attractions.
Does it have amenities?
Just the things that will, wouldmake somebody wanna book it.
(37:10):
You need it to be right there.
Also you wanna have amazingphotos back, let me back up
before I get to photos.
In your listing a lot of peopleget real caught up in wanting to
make it a cool story.
Is it a dark and stormy night?
And welcome to grandma'sbeautiful cabin and a luxurious
blah, blah, blah.
Wait, it's none of that.
(37:30):
None of those words matter to aguest.
What matters is okay, can I fitmy whole family there?
Are we gonna be comfortable?
What are the amenities?
What do we have to do?
How's the location?
So stop with the flowerystories.
Nobody cares.
Same thing with your headline.
So everybody names theirproperties.
Like I name my properties mainlya, it's fun.
(37:53):
Okay?
It's fun to name your propertieswhere it says like it to have a
name.
When you're looking at aspreadsheet and you've got 10 of
these, it's a lot easier toremember okay, this one's bark
at the moon.
This one is Misty mountain hop.
So we know what we're lookingat, right?
But what a lot of people do isin the headline, which is the
most important piece of realestate on your listing, because
(38:14):
people are gonna see thatwhether they click into your
listing or not.
A lot of people put the name oftheir property in the headline,
which you're wasting a lot ofreally important real estate.
If you've got a ski propertythat ski in, ski out, forget
we're not calling it.
Avery's Alpine getaway in thetop, we are putting, it's ski
in, ski out.
(38:35):
Click on this if you're lookingfor a ski in, ski out.
So make sure that you'reproperly utilizing the real
estate in your headline.
Also, you have to have amazingphotos.
Your iPhone is not good enough.
Everybody says the iPhone hasthe blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah, blah.
New camera, but you are not aphotographer.
It doesn't matter.
You can give me a paintbrush.
(38:56):
I am not.
Yeah, yeah.
I was gonna say Picasso, but,yeah.
Yeah.
Not whoever you got, you have toget professional photos.
Yeah.
Awesome.
I'm wondering I've heardrecently a lot about boutique
hotels, like people are usingthat for Airbnb.
Do you, what's your thoughtsaround that?
(39:18):
Yes.
Boutique hotels, very logical.
Next step to scaling.
If you want to get into thecommercial side of short-term
rentals, it does seem to be alittle more work for the same
amount of money in terms of howmuch you're spending, how much
you're having to spend on it,and having a bunch of little
(39:39):
rooms instead of one, one unit.
But the plus side is thatcommercial real estate is
appraised based on the incomeapproach, whereas residential is
valued based on sold comps.
So if you've got a short termrental single family that when
you bought it, it was not arental, it was making$0 and you
made it make a hundred thousanddollars a year and you go to
(40:01):
sell it.
It's still valued based on thesold properties around it that
may or may not be rentals.
It's still the same value,whether it makes$0 or a hundred
thousand dollars, whereas amotel or hotel, if you buy one
of those and take it from buy itat it's making 50,000, first
year you get it up to a hundredthousand you've increased the
(40:21):
value of the property.
If you go to sell it now, it'sworth more because you have made
it worth more because it makesmore money.
So commercial real estate isvalued differently.
So if that is a world that youwanna get into, you can get into
a pretty good position of addingequity easier to properties.
(40:42):
But it's also harder to finance,harder to do.
You need actual staff.
It's more difficult than youwith a single family.
Short term rental, you just hirea handyman, a cleaner, you're
good, you're done.
But with hotels, you have tohave a staff.
But they're both, cool.
I've never bought a boutiquehotel, but it's not that I
(41:05):
wouldn't, it's just that I amset in my ways of, I've got my
short-term rentals, I've got mysingle family long-terms, I got
my apartments and in the marketsthat we buy in and we just pick
those off.
It's, see, feels so hard tolearn a new asset class in a new
market at this point.
So we just haven't You stick toyour markets too, or you expand?
(41:26):
For now, yeah.
Yeah, for now I, it's justeasier since now, since we have
so many to just add to thesystems that we already have
now, when we started.
We did five in the Smokies, thenwe shot down to Destin at Destin
30 a Cape, sandblast.
So those are all th threedifferent markets.
(41:46):
'cause we've got differentcleaners for each of them.
But now with as many as we have,like ease and adding to the
existing systems is a little bitbetter.
But we, what a lot of people dois they just buy short-term
rentals where they want avacation.
They'll buy Makes sense.
It's why I started theshort-term shop.
Yeah.
They buy mountain property withme and say, okay, I wanna buy a
(42:07):
beach one.
Who do I buy with at the beach?
And they buy where they wannago.
So that's a strategy too.
Yeah, that makes sense.
You're on vacation, you're doinga little bit of work.
You can probably write it off orsomething you're killing two
birds with one stone.
Yeah.
I guess just to pivot a littlebit so I know you're known as, I
(42:28):
guess I'm gonna say the STRperson or the STR expert, the
short term shop.
But when I look at social mediain the presence it's like you're
the expert social mediainfluencer right?
In, the SDR space.
So I guess, how did you getstarted with that?
(42:50):
How important is it for you andanything you can share a around
that, social media in thisInstagram Oh, yeah.
And things like that.
Oh, I hate social media.
I hate it.
And I, wouldn't even take aselfie until 22 because I
thought it was douchey.
Really, as time has gone on,like you can't be a small
(43:14):
business owner without having agood social media presence and
not just to like.
Hey, buy tires at Bob's tires.
Thanks for coming.
Let me post something once aweek.
Yeah.
Like you have to have a realpresence and be building a
relationship with your audience.
So for me I don't think, wedon't really get, any clients or
(43:35):
leads from social media, but ithelps to have a big presence.
So when we do, when people docome across us, they, and they
go to look us up, they see thisbig presence and go, okay,
they're legit.
So I yeah.
Hate doing social media.
I hate, there's nothing I hatemore than standing right here
and taking videos, sayingthings.
(43:57):
But it has to be done.
That's, just small businessownership these days.
So it, it is what it is, but I'ma, reluctant influencer.
Nice.
Nice.
That's good.
It probably makes you a goodinfluencer then.
Tough.
It's just what I, yeah, I'mgetting into that space and I
(44:18):
have a channel where I'm justsharing real estate tips and
information and just things thatI've picked up along the way.
And it just seems like there'sso much information out there.
It's, overwhelming.
But then I come acrossinformation that is, is not
correct, or it just seems likeit's out there just to catch
(44:40):
views instead of reallyproviding some value.
And that's what I struggle with.
It's just how do you createcontent that's helpful, and, cut
some of that noise and, try toget people to actually see it
because there's just so much outthere.
Yeah, there's a lot of noise.
A lot of noise.
(45:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
If I could take it back to theshort term rental.
I was just curious to know whereyou see, since you've been in it
for a while and seeing thisevolution where you see it going
from here.
How will it be changing, how,where, the growth opportunities
are, yeah, that's a greatquestion.
(45:23):
So I see more metro marketsimposing anti short-term rental
regulations.
And they should like I if Ilived in Dallas or Houston and
my income was not dependent onshort-term rentals and short
term rentals were a new thing inmy neighborhood, I wouldn't want
'em there either.
And a lot of the hotels hotelsin big cities have a lot of
(45:45):
influence and I think that a lotof the metro areas are gonna
start.
I don't know if they'll alloutright ban them, but
definitely limit them, whichwill commodify a.
Properties in those markets thatare in the zones that allow
them, but b commodify vacationrental real estate, so beach and
(46:06):
mountain real estate even moreto where, hey, this is really
the only type of real estate youcan buy where you can do the
vacation rental strategy.
I, see the, I, see theregulations being imposed.
I'm in Colorado and there's alot of regulations being imposed
in our mountain towns as well.
Do you yeah, these arehistorically vacation towns, so
(46:30):
yeah, that's because the, so thebig conglomerates that own the
ski slopes and everything, theyown all the hotels there.
They, those.
Those are the biggest employersin those towns and they don't
want short-term rentals'causethey want you to rent with them.
They wanna own the short-termrentals.
So it's the same thing as likethe hotel lobbyists in the more
metro type areas.
'cause I love to own a cabin inBreckenridge or somewhere like
(46:54):
that, but those bigconglomerates that own the ski
resorts, they just, it won'thave, won't let it ha won't let
it happen.
Yeah.
And their fees are outrageous.
I was managing a few actually,in, in Vail, and, their fees
were 50%, which I Oh, wow.
Yeah, it was incredible.
(47:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
How do you get ahead of that?
We're just, we're talking aboutsome of the regulations and the
different cities.
How do you keep a pulse onwhat's going on in your market
or market you're thinking ofentering, just to see how things
are, shifting or, maybeshifting.
Yeah, just keep an eye on thecity council meetings for sure.
(47:35):
Definitely.
Give the city, if you're insidecity limits or county, if you're
outside, city limits, a callhere and there just to check on
what's coming down the pipe.
I would never recommend buyingsomewhere without, like before
you eat.
Even get a loan pre-approvalbefore you call a real estate
agent call.
Don't take the Internet's wordfor it.
(47:56):
Yeah.
And don't take your, don't takeyour realtor's word for it.
Call ev.
This goes for everything, notjust regulations.
Call the hear from the horse'smouth exactly what the situation
is and what they see coming andmake your decisions accordingly.
Yeah, that makes sense.
I think the the city here, thecity of Boston, they probably
(48:19):
know me by first name now justbecause again, there's a lot of
regulations.
There were things that, thatwere there and in one year they
just came in and interpreted thethings differently and they
became more strict, even thoughthey didn't make an amendment to
the rules.
But things just changed andshifted overnight that affected
(48:41):
the business.
So yeah, so I, I agree 100%.
I, think.
The phone I call, I ask, try topush nicely and just see how
things go.
Yep.
Yeah.
That's all we can do, what aboutI'm curious for people who wanna
try this with their own home youhear a lot about just tiptoe
(49:03):
into this world.
You hear folks who maybe converta basement or a garage or an a
DU of some sort, like any tipsfor such people and do you
recommend it?
Is that a good way to getstarted?
Yeah, so if you're trying to getstarted it's very similar to a
house hack.
(49:24):
So if you're trying to getstarted and you really just,
your biggest expense is usuallyyour primary home mortgage.
So anything you can do to offsetthat, whether it's having
long-term roommates or maybeyou've got a space that you can
turn into a short-term rental togive them their own private
space.
Whatever you need to do to getyourself started to get that
money saved up for a downpayment, do it.
(49:46):
My husband drove Uber, like myhusband was, had a, real job.
He was or still is part-time,but back then he was full-time a
classic rock DJ on Sirius xm.
He was on 12 hours a day and hewould get done with that, get in
the car and go Uber and peoplewould recognize him and say, oh,
aren't you the guy from theradio?
(50:08):
It'd be so embarrassing, oh wow.
They like, I look like I'mdestitute driving Uber he didn't
care.
We gotta have this extra moneyso that we can go invest.
And then now, seven or eightyears later, it's, a fun story
to tell, but back then itsucked.
And you have to do sucky thingsto, to get where you wanna be.
(50:28):
yeah Yeah.
There's the good and the bads.
That's right.
I, have a question for you.
Conferences, so actually this,I'm learning from Louis Louis
always invited me toconferences, network, meet with
other people.
Last year I did a horrible jobat, so this year I'm being more
intentional.
So I guess with conferences, youspeak at a lot of conferences, a
(50:51):
lot of the real estateBiggerPockets the midterm summit
Midterm Rental Summit.
So you're everywhere.
But I guess for you, are thereany conferences that you attend
to get motivated, keep growing,or to get additional education?
Is there anything like that ForAvery call as a attendee.
(51:14):
So I really like theBiggerPockets conference because
it's multiple types of realestate.
So there's usually somethingthere that I haven't heard of or
that I wanna learn more aboutthat I can sit in on.
I try to limit my travel.
We've got two little kids.
They're four and almost said twoand four.
That was years ago.
They're four and six.
And so I, since I speak at somany, have not really been able
(51:39):
to get out and go to any, justto learn, just'cause I don't
like to be away from the kids.
That time will come.
But BiggerPockets conference forme.
Is it?
Yeah, that's a good one.
Nice.
Okay.
All right.
I'm trying to make it out there,so hopefully, I'll see you in
person.
Yeah.
It's in Vegas this year ateither the midterm or the
BiggerPockets.
Yeah.
(52:00):
Great.
Avery, we like to end off withthese four regular questions we
ask of all our guests.
We call'em our world famousWayfinder four.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
All right.
The first one is can you sharewith us a hack that you use just
like a life hack?
This is gonna sound very triteand like a broken record, but,
(52:24):
waking up early 4:00 AM everyday.
My husband and I both not on thesame floor of the house.
I don't want him coming up to mylevel of the house and talking
to me.
I'm not waking up early to talkto you.
I'm waking up early to get workdone.
We both wake up at four, workfrom four to six.
He actually, he runs a lot ofmarathons.
He's crazy, but so he runs,he'll work for an hour and then
(52:45):
go run.
And then kids wake up at six andwe get the day going then.
But really, you just get a lotof those things that will pile
up on you.
Finished.
Early in the morning whenthere's nobody else awake,
pinging you for things orcalling you or emailing you or,
no, there's no fires to put out.
So that's probably the, and Ijust think better first thing in
the morning.
(53:06):
So that's my biggest hack.
That, and I quit drinking sixyears ago and that's been like a
game changer too.
'cause you're, you sleep so muchbetter.
You wake up, you're, I was tothe point where, I guess it just
happens when you get old.
I'd have one glass of wine afterwork and in the morning I'm
like, what is this headache?
Why am I foggy?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Quitting drinking like made ahuge difference too, just with
(53:27):
sleep and hydration and anxiety.
I had terrible anxiety, sogetting rid of that cut it.
That makes sense.
It's also you save a lot ofmoney.
I, I.
At least I find myself when I'mdoing dry January or something
like that.
It's you spend a lot, thesethings are, it's expensive.
Yeah.
Yes, it is.
(53:48):
I'll, do the second one.
So your favorite something, Idon't know if it's a book song
or tell us about your, favoritesomething.
I guess my favorite something myfavorite band, our family's
favorite band kiss.
My husband and I have seen them,I don't know a ton of times.
We've got all the we've got tonsof KISS memorabilia in the
(54:09):
house.
In our old house we had a kissroom that had kiss murals on
every wall.
We took the kids to see Kiss'final show at Madison Square
Garden in December of 2023.
It was awesome.
So we love rock and roll aroundhere, but KISS is a family
tradition at this point.
That's cool.
Taking the kids to a, band orwhatever that you like, grew up
(54:30):
and love and with and love isthe best feeling, isn't it?
Oh yeah.
Listen, my kids have quite alist of band.
They've seen the Rolling Stones,they've seen AC DC, they've seen
Judas Priest, iron Maiden, likeany classic rock and metal.
They've seen elt.
No, I haven't seen El no.
They've seen Billy Joel so, manygreat ones.
(54:53):
The Eagles legends.
Yeah Give us a piece of advicefor your younger self.
For my younger self, youcouldn't tell me anything when I
was younger.
But for people who might beyounger than me at this point, I
mean I, the biggest thing for meis I just wish I would've
started earlier and everybodyacts like, oh, you can't start
(55:15):
now.
You can't start now.
And everybody's always gonna saythat no matter when now is
yesterday is always gonna havebeen the best time.
But the second best time istoday.
And I do think the way the realestate market is right now, it's
dead guys.
It is dead.
Like I said, if you were homesold 2023 and 2024, then in the
last 65 years, and when Istarted investing in 2013,
(55:36):
everybody was like, no you, hadto invest in 2009 and 2010 right
after the crash.
Now it doesn't make sense.
I truly do think people will in10 years, maybe even five years,
look at 20, 23 and 24 as damn, Iwish I would've bought then as
another 2008.
Yeah, like we didn't see the bigprice drop.
But I think that people aregonna look at this and go, man,
(55:56):
I should have bought then.
I'm with you there.
I agree.
Yeah.
Choice between a big opportunityor a limited belief.
Okay.
A limiting belief that I have.
Yeah.
Yes.
Or wait, what's, what does a bigopportunity mean?
So really it's anything how,does that resonate with you?
(56:19):
Pick one of those two and, chatabout it what maybe a big
opportunity that you see outthere, or limited beliefs you
have and how you overcome itkind of thing.
Okay.
I think a big limiting beliefthat everybody has when they
start investing in real estateis that they don't have enough
money or that they can't, that,that they don't have enough
money, they don't have enoughknowledge and.
(56:41):
It really, you will find a wayto do the things that you
prioritize.
I regularly get peoplecommenting on my social media
you're crazy.
You can't, we can't even savefor a bag of chips today.
Get an extra job.
Nobody wants to hear that.
Maybe cut.
If I had to cut out my bar tabwhen I was 21, I would've saved
(57:03):
a lot of money.
I, know you, it sounds so Isound like such an old man like
boomer.
You can't save your way towealth, but you can, if you want
to prioritize bringing in anextra income so that you can
just get to that down payment toget started, you can do that.
Anybody can do that, but peopledon't wanna hear that.
(57:24):
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
And you know what real estate I.
One of the other things, a deal,and you can find the money for a
deal even if you don't have any.
Yeah.
I can't tell you.
Jesus was saying how we go, I goto a conference that was just
what went in Las Vegas two weeksago, and we're all there a bunch
of old brokers sharing deals ofall different sorts are from
(57:46):
around the country.
Half the people who were therewere just there with money to
give to people to invest.
You know what I'm saying?
To so not having money is not anexcuse to get in into real
estate.
You don't get to keep as much ofthe pie.
But you still get a piece of it,and that's better than nothing.
Yeah.
(58:07):
I like to think that if you setthe intention right, so if you.
You wanna buy a home, okay?
You don't have the down paymentyet.
But if you set the intention of,okay how can I get the money?
How can I do it?
Now you're opening it up andsometimes money will come to
you, right?
You, wouldn't even be able tomake it up.
But one way, one how, some way,somehow it'll, come to you.
(58:30):
You can figure it out.
You can get another job or youcan do something to make it
happen.
But you have to begin with just,Hey the intention of this is
what I'm gonna do, and we'llfigure it out along the way.
Totally.
I think if you just shutyourself down at the beginning
then, that's it.
As soon it's not gonna happen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(58:50):
Avery, thank you so much forbeing on the show.
If people wanna know a littlebit more about you, maybe get
your books, where can they dothat?
I.
So best place to go is ourwebsite, the shortterm shop.com,
or you can follow the Shorttermshop on Instagram.
It's at the short-term shop.
If you wanna follow mepersonally, I'm at the Avery
(59:11):
Carl.
You can pick up the book, bothof the books.
Probably the best deal is gonnabe on the BiggerPockets
Bookstore, so it'sbiggerpockets.com/smarter str.
You can get'em in Amazon, or onAmazon, sorry, or wherever books
are sold.
You can walk into Barnes andNoble and pick one up, which is
pretty cool.
Yeah.
Yeah, anywhere books are sold,but website, Instagram, find us
(59:32):
there.
Awesome.
Thank you so much for your time,Avery.
This is also, like you said, wesurprised you at the beginning,
but Jesus has been a specialguest cohost here.
So if people want to connectwith you, Jesus, where can they
do that?
Instagram, it's not a fancyname.
I'm working, out all the pieces.
(59:54):
It's just, Hey, j 6, 6 1.
So it's.
Simple.
So like Jesus, J G hey.
J-E-S-U-S-J 6, 6 1 6, 6 1.
Excellent.
Yeah.
Oh thank you guys.
It's been a lot of fun.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
(01:00:14):
Yes.
We hope you've enjoyed theWayfinder Show.
If you've got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a five starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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