September 1, 2023 • 28 mins
Navigating the evolving world of the wedding industry just got a whole lot easier. Join Aisha Garnett, Certified Educator and Master Certified Wedding Planner, as she teams up with Laurie Hartwell, CEO and founder of the Certified Wedding Planner Society, to bring you a timely and in-depth conversation. Ever wondered about the impact of the US Department of Labor’s proposed rulemaking on the wedding industry? Look no further. Learn how this could influence the classification of workers as employees or independent contractors, and the ramifications it may have on your business.
Dive deeper into this subject with a closer look at the IRS classification for independent contractors. Listen to Laurie Hartwell as she unpacks the importance of understanding how to pay workers, and the implications of incorrect classification. What does this mean for you in the wedding industry? This episode promises to leave you well-informed and better equipped to handle these potential changes.
But that's not all. Aisha switches gears to tackle the potentially contentious issue of adult-only weddings with Krisy Thomas, Vice President of the Certified Wedding Planner Society. Learn how to manage expectations without causing conflict, and the importance of having open communication.
Plus, get your creative juices flowing with innovative ideas for wedding bouquet and garter toss alternatives. Whether you're a seasoned wedding planner, or new to the industry, this episode is a treasure trove of knowledge and inspiration. Tune in, listen up, and stay ahead of the curve in the wedding industry.
www.cwpsociety.com | info@cwpsociety.com | IG: @cwpsociety | FB: @cwpsociety
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Wedding Planner podcast brought
to you by the Certified WeddingPlanner Society.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to the Wedding Industry News.
It's September 2023 and I'myour host, Aisha Garnett,
Certified Educator and MasterCertified Wedding Planner with
the Certified Wedding PlannerSociety, when each episode
covers something old, somethingnew, something borrowed and some
new.
Let's jump right into some news.
(00:37):
In October of 2022, the USDepartment of Labor issued a
notice of proposed rulemakingthat would provide guidance to
help employers and workersdetermine whether a worker is an
employee or an independentcontractor under the Fair Labor
Standards Act.
The Fair Labor Standards Act,also known as FLSA, establishes
(00:59):
minimum wage, overtime pay,record keeping and youth
employment standards affectingemployees in the private sector
and in federal, state and localgovernments.
Covered non-exempt workers areentitled to no less than the
$7.25 minimum wage.
According to the Huffington Post, if the new federal guidelines
(01:20):
are implemented, this would makeit easier for more workers to
pursue complaints or lawsuitsagainst their employers if they
believe they've been shortedwages.
This could also address theconcerns that employers are
categorizing their employees ascontractors in order to bypass
workplace laws, not having topay state or federal payroll
taxes for independentcontractors or avoid providing
(01:43):
the usual employment benefits totheir workers, such as
retirement and health benefitsand workers' compensation.
This could also open the doorsfor state and local officials to
create legislation that wouldcrack down on such
misclassification of workers.
According to Thompson-Ruders,the final rule was set to be
issued by the Department ofLabor in May of 2023, but on
(02:06):
June 9, the US Court of Appealsfor the Fifth Circuit granted a
120-day delay to furtherproceedings related to the DOL
appeal in response to thefederal district court ruling
back in March of 2022, to allowthe DOL sometimes to complete
its rulemaking.
There are more than 54,000comments received on this rule
(02:28):
which are in review by DOL.
This 120-day delay gives DOLuntil October 2023 to finalize
the rule.
Joining me to discuss this abit further is Laurie Hartwell,
CEO and founder of the CertifiedWedding Planner Society.
Welcome, Laurie.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
How are you, Aisha Good, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm great All right now.
When it comes to the weddingindustry, there are many small
business owners such as weddingplanners, photographers,
videographers and so on, some ofwhom usually bring on
additional assistance duringtheir events, especially for the
day of the event.
In the wedding industry.
In some cases, these workersare considered independent
(03:08):
contractors or freelancersinstead of actual employees.
Could you speak a little bitmore to what the differences are
when it comes to an independentcontractor versus an employee
in the wedding industry?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Absolutely.
There are several differencesbetween the two.
First, if your worker is trulyan employee, you would be
withholding their taxes.
That includes income tax,social security and Medicare.
You may pay them hourly ratherthan by the project or job.
If they were to be independentcontractors, you would be able
(03:40):
to set their hours and controlhow you want things done and
when they should be done.
So there really is a differencein how much control you
actually have.
The important thing to do hereis to know that you have to
consider what the IRS seems tobe the difference between
employee and independentcontractor, as well.
As each state See, every statehas their own rules.
(04:01):
I'm gonna go ahead and breakdown the difference here.
So the IRS looks at common lawstandards, which are mapped out
into three prongs.
The first is behavioral.
So you have to ask yourselfdoes the company that you own
control or have the right tocontrol what your worker does
and how that worker does theirjob?
(04:23):
The general rule of thumb hereis that an individual is an
independent contractor If theperson who is asking them to
work has the right to control ormaybe direct only the result of
that work and not necessarilywhat will be done and how it
will be done, even if you tell aworker that they have some sort
(04:44):
of freedom.
So they really come down tothat behavioral.
So that's the first prong.
The second prong is financial.
So are the business aspects ofthe worker's job controlled by
the person who's paying them?
These things include, like howthe worker is paid, whether the
expenses are gonna be reimbursed, or who provides the tools or
(05:04):
supplies, et cetera.
And then there's that thirdprong, which is the type of
relationship.
So are there any writtencontracts or employee type
benefits?
For instance, are you providingthem a pension plan?
Are you paying for theirinsurance?
Are you paying for them to beable to go on vacation?
If so, that's an employee andnot an independent contractor.
(05:26):
And then will the relationshipcontinue on a forever basis or
is the work performed in a veryspecific short-term period of
time?
If the employer you who owns thebusiness wields any of these
controls over the worker, thenthat worker is an employee, not
an independent contractor.
But then on top of the IRS, sothose are just the three prongs
(05:49):
that the IRS looks at.
Then each state has its ownstandards and some fall in line
under the common law standards,while other states have taken a
different approach and go bysomething that's called the ABC
standards.
This is where it presumes thata worker is an employee
automatically unless the factsand circumstances provide
(06:09):
evidence of independentcontractor status based on the
criteria.
So they also have three prongs.
Their first one is absence ofcontrol.
So absence of control exists ifthe worker is free from the
direction of the control of thehiring organization or company,
both by a contract or agreementand an actual fact.
(06:32):
The second prong would be thebusiness of the worker.
So in order to be classified asan independent contractor, the
worker must perform work that isunusual in regards to the
employer.
So I'll give you a quickexample here If you owned a
restaurant and you wanted tohave that restaurant painted,
when you hired the painter, theywould be considered an
(06:53):
independent contractor becausethey're not doing the same type
of business as that restaurantis.
So it's very easy to see thedifference between those two.
So the business of the workercan easily.
If they pass that prong, it'slike oh well, then that person's
obviously an independentcontractor.
The third prong would becustomarily engaged.
So what this means is variousprofessions and trades are
(07:16):
customarily independentcontractors and they're
available on a per job basis,since they have their own
business identity and becausethey engage in business for
profit on the open market.
But the Department of Laboralso looks at what they call
economic realities.
So the more dependent thatworker is on a particular
(07:36):
employer for income, the morethey lean towards giving that
person employee status ratherthan independent contractor
status.
So let me just give you areally quick example here.
If you have an independentcontractor that's how you're
classifying them now and they'renot working for any other
company, they're not working forthemselves or any other wedding
(07:57):
planners at all.
That would mean that they wouldbe considered more as an
employee under that state lawthan independent contractor.
So that should tell you rightaway you're misclassifying that
worker.
It is possible for a worker tobe an independent contractor
under common law and an employeeunder the ABC test, for example
(08:18):
, an employee can be classifiedas an independent contractor by
the IRS under the common lawstandard.
But then when trying to getcovered for unemployment, let's
say the same worker that wasjust classified as an
independent contractor could beclassified as an employee
because of the state that theylive in.
So the state is the one who'shandling all that unemployment
(08:42):
and if that state uses the ABCtest, then poof.
Now we have a little bit of adiscrepancy, so it can get kind
of complicated and confusing.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Absolutely so what can wedding pros do to make sure
that they aren't misclassifyingtheir workers and or team
members, or is this the time toconsider expanding their team so
that they aren't stepping intoany IRS trouble?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, even if you're expanding your team, you have to
make sure you're expanding yourteam and classifying them as
either employees or independentcontractors.
And, honestly, we hear all thetime like I want a huge team, I
want to make sure that I'mgrowing, but you have to grow in
any way that you want.
I support it.
I just need to make sure thatwe're classifying people the
correct way.
(09:24):
So it's really important tomake sure that we, as business
owners, familiarize ourselveswith this topic and what our
state laws are, as well as whatthe IRS is going to consider an
employee versus an independentcontractor, because we want to
make sure that we're notaccidentally misclassifying
these people that are going tobe coming and working for us.
Here's the thing misclassifyingworkers.
(09:45):
It's a huge mistake that couldcost a business owner an
enormous amount.
If it is determined that youmisclassified a worker, you will
have to pay back taxes, but youcould also face criminal
penalties, and that includespayment penalties of up to
$1,000 per misclassifiedemployee or even jail time up to
(10:07):
a year.
So this is not like alighthearted thing.
We need to be looking at thisvery, very seriously and you
know, it's interesting, aishathere are misconceptions that I
hear all the time I call you.
We can call them myths, we cancall them misconceptions, but
there's three that I hear allthe time that says no, I'm an
independent contractor becauseso here it is.
(10:27):
Some people say they're anindependent contractor because
they got a 1099 or they give a1099, so that person's an
automatically an independentcontractor.
That's a myth.
Someone might be misclassifyingyou.
That's literally all that means.
We have to make sure that we'relooking at the prongs under
either the ABC test or thecommon law test.
Another misconception would bewell, but the person who hired
(10:51):
me calls me an independentcontractor, so obviously I am
one.
Now that just means that theycould be calling you the wrong
thing.
That's all that means.
Some people say but I've signeda contract and actually it was
called entitled independentcontractors agreement, so that
automatically makes me anindependent contractor.
Unfortunately, that's not trueeither.
(11:13):
That just means you signed acontract without actually
looking into what your statelaws and what the IRS
requirements are.
So we have to really look intothese things to ensure that we
are not misclassifying peopleand we're being very, very
careful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I agree.
Now, do you think this proposedruling could heavily impact the
wedding industry?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I think it can.
I mean, I look at what weddingplanners are doing.
So if we have to have absenceof control, that's under the
state rules, and then, if welook under IRS, there's that
behavioral, which means we havethe right to control.
If we think we have the rightto control what the worker does
and how the worker does theirjob, that can get misconstrued
(11:57):
in a lot of ways.
So how do we see timelines?
How does the IRS see timelines?
If I am telling my let's justcall them worker for right now,
because we have no idea howwe're going to be classifying
them.
If I tell my worker I need youto use this very specific
software to do this timeline andI want you to fill in this
timeline according to what Ithink is the best way for this
(12:20):
wedding to go, and that's whatyou're telling your worker,
you're now exhibiting controlover that worker.
You're telling them how it's tobe done.
It's okay, though, under theIRS common law, to simply say
what you want the outcome to be.
You know what your outcome is Iwant this to be a successful,
well-planned wedding.
If that is the only control youare okay with having, then you
(12:47):
might be able to classify thatperson as an independent
contractor under that one prompt.
But I can tell you how mostwedding planners are a little
bit on the more controlling side.
We want to make sure that weare analyzing how much control
we're actually putting onsomeone, because a lot of times
(13:09):
we're saying, well, no, I wantyou to send out an email during
this time period.
Then I want you to ask themthis and this is how we
typically schedule our meetings,and this is all under the
umbrella of this company.
If you're telling your workerthat that's how you want it done
, that's an employee, that's notan independent contractor.
So it's a very interesting wayof kind of going about things.
(13:30):
And if you're having yourworker utilize your own software
, like Timeline, genius, rockPaper, coin Mary, even Ioplanner
, dipsado, honeybook If you aretelling your worker that you
want them to log in utilizingyour system, I'm sorry, but that
falls under employee ratherthan independent contractor.
(13:52):
Also, how do you pay thisperson?
You really can't pay anindependent contractor an hourly
wage.
Why?
It confuses the issue.
If it walks like a duck andquacks like a duck, the IRS is
going to say that's a duck.
I'm sorry, that's veryduck-like, and so what we have
to do is make sure that we areavoiding looking like a duck at
(14:14):
all if we're trying to passourselves off as a goose, and so
it's very, very important thatwe are aware of how we're
running our business.
And so if you're paying someonehourly, that's an employee.
You very rarely would ever payan independent contractor an
hourly wage.
You have a job for them andyou're willing to pay them a set
(14:36):
fee for that job.
Maybe it's a percentage ofsomething or what have you, but
that's what you're looking at.
So look at how you're willingto pay people, even on just
assistance for a day of you haveto think about how you're
willing to pay them.
If you say I'll pay you $20 anhour, okay, well, that sounds
like an employee to me.
And especially, think about ourday of assistance.
(14:57):
We're telling them how to setup, what to set up, why to set
up, when to set up.
We're controlling the wholething, that's it for me.
Okay.
So we have to be very careful.
Most of this we can't reallyget around.
And then you have to askyourself if you're reimbursing
them.
Am I reimbursing them for gasto get to and from this wedding,
or reimbursing them for an airtravel expense, or am I
(15:22):
reimbursing them to stay in thathotel?
If you're reimbursing them,then that's.
I'm sorry, that's an employeethat's on an independent
contractor.
So these are some of the thingsthat I think it's going to
actually impact the weddingindustry in a big way.
Think about this, aisha.
What about photographers?
A lot of photographers cannotget around that prong that talks
(15:43):
about the customarily engagedside of things or the type of
relationship I kind of gave thatexample of, or even the
business of the worker.
You can't get around that oneat all, because I give the
example of restaurant versuspainter.
Well, a photographer is notgoing to hire a DJ to pick up a
(16:06):
you know, a camera.
Yeah, I need you to get someshots here.
You have to hire anotherphotographer.
So how do we classify thatphotographer?
So it's going to be veryinteresting how to how we
proceed.
But there are some loopholes,there are some ways around it
and some states have exceptions.
I know California.
They made a huge list of a lotof exceptions to their ABC rule
(16:33):
and law.
There's a lot going on.
There's so much in depth.
You and I could probably talkon this subject for five days
straight and still not eventouch all of it.
Here's the main takeaway it isgoing to affect our industry.
It already has started toaffect our industry and if you
are a business owner and youwant to grow your team, you need
(16:53):
to make sure that you arelooking at not just the IRS
standard, because you have tomeet the IRS standard, but you
also need to be looking at yourstate laws for the Department of
Labor, because they have theirvery own.
Some of them go with what theIRS does, which is common law,
but a lot of states, more thanyou can imagine, actually go by
(17:15):
the ABC standard, which changesthings up completely, absolutely
.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
What I'm hearing you say, lori, is our wedding pros
need to do their homeworkbecause we are not fit for jail
time.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
No, no.
My best friend Absolutely mybest friend always tells me
she's like girl you do not lookgood in orange.
You need to be careful, right?
No?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
that is not our color .
Thank you so much, lori, forjoining me and sharing your
insight on this topic today.
You're welcome.
Now onto something borrowed.
In this segment we featureinformation from an alternate
source that I feel you would beinterested in.
For instance, Metro, a Britishnewspaper, put on an article
(17:58):
stating that a bride to be hasdecided to have an adult only
wedding, and her family is nottoo happy about it.
The bride posted on Reddit someunfortunate news that she's
experienced, as she justcouldn't handle seeing children
at her wedding, even if theywere related to her.
Prior to her posts, her brother, who is also a single dad and a
groomsman in the wedding, senther a text message saying that
(18:20):
his two daughters would makegreat flower girls and that he
was going to purchase theirdresses.
He just needed to know whatcolor to purchase.
The bride then shared herdecision, which got back to her
parents.
This caused complete turmoilbetween the bride, affecting her
relationship with her brotherand parents.
Now her parents stated theywill not be in attendance at the
(18:41):
wedding until she agrees toallow her nieces to attend as
well.
Here to discuss this with me abit further is Chrissy Thomas,
vice president of the certifiedwedding planner society.
Thanks for joining me, chrissy.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Thanks for having me.
This topic is oh, it's a hardhelp.
I'm glad we're discussing it.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Absolutely.
Let's get right into it.
I'm noticing that some couplesare only allowing the children
at their wedding or in theirwedding to attend their wedding.
Rarely have I heard of casessuch as this one.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
What's your take on this?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Are you seeing more couples doing away with having
children on their guest list?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yes, I actually am.
What I'm realizing is thatcouples are seeing that, while
children are cute, they can be adistraction and, honestly,
sometimes an added stress ontheir wedding day.
And here's the thing I am amother with two young boys seven
and three so I understand theimportance of family and wanting
your children to be included inthose certain moments of your
(19:38):
life, such as someone's weddingday.
But I also understand thatchildren can sometimes misbehave
or be disruptive, and typicallythis isn't intentional.
They are children after all.
This can be crying during theceremony, going straight to the
wedding cake with their tinylittle dirty fingers, you know.
And once the reception begins,it can sometimes turn into a
(20:00):
nightclub with lots of drinkingand some not so kid friendly
dance moves.
These are the things that tendto take place at the wedding
receptions, and couples knowthis and they want to avoid this
happening.
So, yes, I'm seeing a number ofcouples opting to host a child
free event and making theirwedding an adult only affair.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Now some parents put the bill for their children's
wedding day and they feelprivileged to add to the guest
list.
What's your take on this?
Do you think it's fair?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
This is so hard because I know there's this
mentality of it being you knowyour day and all about you and
who you're getting married to.
But when someone else isfooting the bill, they do have a
voice in the decision makingand as planners we sometimes get
caught right in the middle ofthose disputes between the
person paying and the engagedcouple.
(20:51):
So sometimes our planner rolequickly turns into that of being
a mediator, and I try toencourage my clients and the
person paying the bill to havean open and honest communication
with each other, but to also berespectful of their individual
views of what the wedding day isgoing to look like and, most
importantly, really to try tocompromise.
As a planner, I try to presentsolutions that will take into
(21:15):
account both of theirpreferences because, at the end
of the day, the person paying, Ithink, does in fact have a role
and a key into the decisionmaking of the wedding day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I agree this particular couple is choosing to
have a child free celebrationand they mentioned that they
didn't want children to bearound the partying and drinking
at the reception.
And we can.
We can definitely relate tothat.
But in hearing about this story, do you think this bride took
the best approach in letting theguests and her family know her
decision of not having childrenat the wedding?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I think this could have been approached differently
.
You know, for this particularcase and this story that you
mentioned, even just a directconversation between the brother
and the sister who was thebride in this, instead of just a
no hard feelings text I don'twant your kids at my wedding day
I think just a directconversation would have allowed
this family to not fall apart,because that's essentially
(22:10):
what's happening with theirdecision to not attend this
wedding.
A direct conversation of whythey're decided not to have
children at their wedding andjust having some type of mutual
understanding would have beenbetter, I think, than a text.
But as a wedding planner, oneway that you can let your
couples know that, hey, you canstill have this child free
wedding day but still allow yourguests to actually bring your
(22:32):
children to the wedding is byoffering on site babies and
services.
If your couples maybe havefamily members who are children
that they want to include in thewedding ceremony but not be
part of the wedding receptionsimilar to what the you know the
bride that you mentioned herein the story ensure that they
have someone to come pick themup after the ceremony or maybe
post ceremony photos.
(22:52):
They can also set agerestrictions so, for example,
they may be allowed, or be opento allowing, teenagers, but not
young children.
This can accommodate olderchildren who you know, let's be
honest may be a bit more behavedthan younger children.
You know, as wedding planners,we must be sure that we are
educating our clients and alsobeing their advocate.
(23:14):
If they decide to have a childfree wedding, we need to have an
open discussion with them abouttheir preferences, listen to
their concerns and also providealternative options.
Like I mentioned before, we needto prepare them in knowing that
they're probably going to get alot of questions and possibly
some pushback from their weddingguests.
So maybe create templates withsome polite responses that they
(23:35):
can use to address these guests.
We also need to remind them tobe sensitive to their wedding
guests needs.
They need to communicate theirchild fee wedding decision as
early as possible.
This can be listed on thewedding website or the details
card of their wedding invitationand for me, this is the topic
where there should be no beatingaround the bush with this.
(23:55):
It needs to be clear, it needsto be direct, so make sure the
wording is polite but clear onthe preference for an adult only
event.
At the end of the day.
It's our clients wedding dayand our role as their wedding
planner is to help navigatetheir decision and execute their
wedding day vision with grace,but also with respect for the
wedding guest attending thewedding.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I totally agree with you, chrissy.
Thank you so much for weighingin on such an interesting topic.
You're so welcome.
All right, next up is our oldand new segment.
This is where I'll bediscussing an old trend and
what's replacing it Today.
I want to tackle no pun intended, the famous wedding tradition
(24:36):
of doing a bouquet or gartertoss.
I'm finding more and morecouples are tossing those
traditions to the side.
Let's be honest when you attenda wedding and you get to the
portion where the MC or the DJcalls all of the single ladies
and gentlemen to the dance floorfor either the wedding bouquet
toss or the garter toss, there'susually that one guest that's
(24:58):
more eager to catch the bouquetthan anyone else and the
groomsmen?
Well, they aren't really racingto the floor.
Let's face it.
Catching the floral bouquetdoes not guarantee that you'll
be the next person to getmarried, and catching the garter
doesn't necessarily mean thatyou'll be the next one to
propose.
But we've seen it many timeswhere ladies are gathering
(25:19):
around just ready to tackle oneanother down and dismantle a
perfectly beautiful bouquet,more than likely taking home
fragments of a floralarrangement or maybe even a few
scars.
On the other hand, groomsmen,who often have to be called
multiple times, make their waycasually to the dance floor only
to stand as far back aspossible, making sure that
(25:42):
garter lands everywhere but attheir feet, and when it does,
there's always the awkward pauseas to who will pick it up first
.
So instead of continuing to seewedding guests participate in
these old age traditions, let'soffer our couples a few more
ideas to consider For thebouquet toss.
The first is simply handing thefloral bouquet to a very
(26:04):
special person in your couple'slife.
This way, the bouquet is stillintact and there's no personal
injury to worry about.
There's the anniversary dance,which highlights all of the
married couples in the room.
The MC or DJ can play thecouple's favorite song, invite
the beautiful married couples tothe dance floor and call out
the anniversary year, startingfrom the newly married couple to
(26:26):
those lucky couples that havecelebrated their diamond
anniversary.
The last couple standing takeshome the floral bouquet.
Have your single guests do adance off.
Your couple can simply invitethem to the dance floor and let
them engage in a friendly,competitive dance battle.
This way we just might avoidthe bodily harm tactics.
(26:47):
Involve all of your weddingguests and let the crowd decide
who gets to take home thebouquet.
Finally, give a flower from thebouquet to each single guest.
This way, no single person isleft out, but they each have a
chance to receive a piece of thesought-after bouquet.
When it comes to the garter toss, not all couples want to be on
(27:09):
display in the middle of thereception for all eyes to see
how the garter will be removed.
So let's avoid anyembarrassment from the couple or
the guests and toss other items, such as the groom's tie, or
add a sports element to it andgently and I mean gently toss an
autographed basketball,baseball or football.
(27:30):
Let's engage our couples toreally think about other items
that their guests will enjoy andreally go after during this
moment in their weddingreception.
Or simply toss the boutonniers.
This way, multiple guests cantake home a special element from
the wedding day.
Either way, there are so manyideas that we can discuss with
(27:51):
our couples to get them thinkingabout the endless possibilities
and making the old traditionalwedding bouquet and garter toss
a new and improved tradition ofspecial, safe and fun moments to
remember.
That wraps up our September2023 wedding industry news.
Thank you so much for listening.
We look forward to having youjoin us next month here on the
(28:13):
Wedding Planner Podcast.
This has been Nick Ониay fromU247 spacing in and abroad.
Welcome to the Wedding Planner podcast brought
to you by the Certified WeddingPlanner Society.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to the Wedding Industry News.
It's September 2023 and I'myour host, Aisha Garnett,
Certified Educator and MasterCertified Wedding Planner with
the Certified Wedding PlannerSociety, when each episode
covers something old, somethingnew, something borrowed and some
new.
Let's jump right into some news.
(00:37):
In October of 2022, the USDepartment of Labor issued a
notice of proposed rulemakingthat would provide guidance to
help employers and workersdetermine whether a worker is an
employee or an independentcontractor under the Fair Labor
Standards Act.
The Fair Labor Standards Act,also known as FLSA, establishes
(00:59):
minimum wage, overtime pay,record keeping and youth
employment standards affectingemployees in the private sector
and in federal, state and localgovernments.
Covered non-exempt workers areentitled to no less than the
$7.25 minimum wage.
According to the Huffington Post, if the new federal guidelines
(01:20):
are implemented, this would makeit easier for more workers to
pursue complaints or lawsuitsagainst their employers if they
believe they've been shortedwages.
This could also address theconcerns that employers are
categorizing their employees ascontractors in order to bypass
workplace laws, not having topay state or federal payroll
taxes for independentcontractors or avoid providing
(01:43):
the usual employment benefits totheir workers, such as
retirement and health benefitsand workers' compensation.
This could also open the doorsfor state and local officials to
create legislation that wouldcrack down on such
misclassification of workers.
According to Thompson-Ruders,the final rule was set to be
issued by the Department ofLabor in May of 2023, but on
(02:06):
June 9, the US Court of Appealsfor the Fifth Circuit granted a
120-day delay to furtherproceedings related to the DOL
appeal in response to thefederal district court ruling
back in March of 2022, to allowthe DOL sometimes to complete
its rulemaking.
There are more than 54,000comments received on this rule
(02:28):
which are in review by DOL.
This 120-day delay gives DOLuntil October 2023 to finalize
the rule.
Joining me to discuss this abit further is Laurie Hartwell,
CEO and founder of the CertifiedWedding Planner Society.
Welcome, Laurie.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
How are you, Aisha Good, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
I'm great All right now.
When it comes to the weddingindustry, there are many small
business owners such as weddingplanners, photographers,
videographers and so on, some ofwhom usually bring on
additional assistance duringtheir events, especially for the
day of the event.
In the wedding industry.
In some cases, these workersare considered independent
(03:08):
contractors or freelancersinstead of actual employees.
Could you speak a little bitmore to what the differences are
when it comes to an independentcontractor versus an employee
in the wedding industry?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Absolutely.
There are several differencesbetween the two.
First, if your worker is trulyan employee, you would be
withholding their taxes.
That includes income tax,social security and Medicare.
You may pay them hourly ratherthan by the project or job.
If they were to be independentcontractors, you would be able
(03:40):
to set their hours and controlhow you want things done and
when they should be done.
So there really is a differencein how much control you
actually have.
The important thing to do hereis to know that you have to
consider what the IRS seems tobe the difference between
employee and independentcontractor, as well.
As each state See, every statehas their own rules.
(04:01):
I'm gonna go ahead and breakdown the difference here.
So the IRS looks at common lawstandards, which are mapped out
into three prongs.
The first is behavioral.
So you have to ask yourselfdoes the company that you own
control or have the right tocontrol what your worker does
and how that worker does theirjob?
(04:23):
The general rule of thumb hereis that an individual is an
independent contractor If theperson who is asking them to
work has the right to control ormaybe direct only the result of
that work and not necessarilywhat will be done and how it
will be done, even if you tell aworker that they have some sort
(04:44):
of freedom.
So they really come down tothat behavioral.
So that's the first prong.
The second prong is financial.
So are the business aspects ofthe worker's job controlled by
the person who's paying them?
These things include, like howthe worker is paid, whether the
expenses are gonna be reimbursed, or who provides the tools or
(05:04):
supplies, et cetera.
And then there's that thirdprong, which is the type of
relationship.
So are there any writtencontracts or employee type
benefits?
For instance, are you providingthem a pension plan?
Are you paying for theirinsurance?
Are you paying for them to beable to go on vacation?
If so, that's an employee andnot an independent contractor.
(05:26):
And then will the relationshipcontinue on a forever basis or
is the work performed in a veryspecific short-term period of
time?
If the employer you who owns thebusiness wields any of these
controls over the worker, thenthat worker is an employee, not
an independent contractor.
But then on top of the IRS, sothose are just the three prongs
(05:49):
that the IRS looks at.
Then each state has its ownstandards and some fall in line
under the common law standards,while other states have taken a
different approach and go bysomething that's called the ABC
standards.
This is where it presumes thata worker is an employee
automatically unless the factsand circumstances provide
(06:09):
evidence of independentcontractor status based on the
criteria.
So they also have three prongs.
Their first one is absence ofcontrol.
So absence of control exists ifthe worker is free from the
direction of the control of thehiring organization or company,
both by a contract or agreementand an actual fact.
(06:32):
The second prong would be thebusiness of the worker.
So in order to be classified asan independent contractor, the
worker must perform work that isunusual in regards to the
employer.
So I'll give you a quickexample here If you owned a
restaurant and you wanted tohave that restaurant painted,
when you hired the painter, theywould be considered an
(06:53):
independent contractor becausethey're not doing the same type
of business as that restaurantis.
So it's very easy to see thedifference between those two.
So the business of the workercan easily.
If they pass that prong, it'slike oh well, then that person's
obviously an independentcontractor.
The third prong would becustomarily engaged.
So what this means is variousprofessions and trades are
(07:16):
customarily independentcontractors and they're
available on a per job basis,since they have their own
business identity and becausethey engage in business for
profit on the open market.
But the Department of Laboralso looks at what they call
economic realities.
So the more dependent thatworker is on a particular
(07:36):
employer for income, the morethey lean towards giving that
person employee status ratherthan independent contractor
status.
So let me just give you areally quick example here.
If you have an independentcontractor that's how you're
classifying them now and they'renot working for any other
company, they're not working forthemselves or any other wedding
(07:57):
planners at all.
That would mean that they wouldbe considered more as an
employee under that state lawthan independent contractor.
So that should tell you rightaway you're misclassifying that
worker.
It is possible for a worker tobe an independent contractor
under common law and an employeeunder the ABC test, for example
(08:18):
, an employee can be classifiedas an independent contractor by
the IRS under the common lawstandard.
But then when trying to getcovered for unemployment, let's
say the same worker that wasjust classified as an
independent contractor could beclassified as an employee
because of the state that theylive in.
So the state is the one who'shandling all that unemployment
(08:42):
and if that state uses the ABCtest, then poof.
Now we have a little bit of adiscrepancy, so it can get kind
of complicated and confusing.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Absolutely so what can wedding pros do to make sure
that they aren't misclassifyingtheir workers and or team
members, or is this the time toconsider expanding their team so
that they aren't stepping intoany IRS trouble?
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Well, even if you're expanding your team, you have to
make sure you're expanding yourteam and classifying them as
either employees or independentcontractors.
And, honestly, we hear all thetime like I want a huge team, I
want to make sure that I'mgrowing, but you have to grow in
any way that you want.
I support it.
I just need to make sure thatwe're classifying people the
correct way.
(09:24):
So it's really important tomake sure that we, as business
owners, familiarize ourselveswith this topic and what our
state laws are, as well as whatthe IRS is going to consider an
employee versus an independentcontractor, because we want to
make sure that we're notaccidentally misclassifying
these people that are going tobe coming and working for us.
Here's the thing misclassifyingworkers.
(09:45):
It's a huge mistake that couldcost a business owner an
enormous amount.
If it is determined that youmisclassified a worker, you will
have to pay back taxes, but youcould also face criminal
penalties, and that includespayment penalties of up to
$1,000 per misclassifiedemployee or even jail time up to
(10:07):
a year.
So this is not like alighthearted thing.
We need to be looking at thisvery, very seriously and you
know, it's interesting, aishathere are misconceptions that I
hear all the time I call you.
We can call them myths, we cancall them misconceptions, but
there's three that I hear allthe time that says no, I'm an
independent contractor becauseso here it is.
(10:27):
Some people say they're anindependent contractor because
they got a 1099 or they give a1099, so that person's an
automatically an independentcontractor.
That's a myth.
Someone might be misclassifyingyou.
That's literally all that means.
We have to make sure that we'relooking at the prongs under
either the ABC test or thecommon law test.
Another misconception would bewell, but the person who hired
(10:51):
me calls me an independentcontractor, so obviously I am
one.
Now that just means that theycould be calling you the wrong
thing.
That's all that means.
Some people say but I've signeda contract and actually it was
called entitled independentcontractors agreement, so that
automatically makes me anindependent contractor.
Unfortunately, that's not trueeither.
(11:13):
That just means you signed acontract without actually
looking into what your statelaws and what the IRS
requirements are.
So we have to really look intothese things to ensure that we
are not misclassifying peopleand we're being very, very
careful.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
I agree.
Now, do you think this proposedruling could heavily impact the
wedding industry?
Speaker 1 (11:36):
I think it can.
I mean, I look at what weddingplanners are doing.
So if we have to have absenceof control, that's under the
state rules, and then, if welook under IRS, there's that
behavioral, which means we havethe right to control.
If we think we have the rightto control what the worker does
and how the worker does theirjob, that can get misconstrued
(11:57):
in a lot of ways.
So how do we see timelines?
How does the IRS see timelines?
If I am telling my let's justcall them worker for right now,
because we have no idea howwe're going to be classifying
them.
If I tell my worker I need youto use this very specific
software to do this timeline andI want you to fill in this
timeline according to what Ithink is the best way for this
(12:20):
wedding to go, and that's whatyou're telling your worker,
you're now exhibiting controlover that worker.
You're telling them how it's tobe done.
It's okay, though, under theIRS common law, to simply say
what you want the outcome to be.
You know what your outcome is Iwant this to be a successful,
well-planned wedding.
If that is the only control youare okay with having, then you
(12:47):
might be able to classify thatperson as an independent
contractor under that one prompt.
But I can tell you how mostwedding planners are a little
bit on the more controlling side.
We want to make sure that weare analyzing how much control
we're actually putting onsomeone, because a lot of times
(13:09):
we're saying, well, no, I wantyou to send out an email during
this time period.
Then I want you to ask themthis and this is how we
typically schedule our meetings,and this is all under the
umbrella of this company.
If you're telling your workerthat that's how you want it done
, that's an employee, that's notan independent contractor.
So it's a very interesting wayof kind of going about things.
(13:30):
And if you're having yourworker utilize your own software
, like Timeline, genius, rockPaper, coin Mary, even Ioplanner
, dipsado, honeybook If you aretelling your worker that you
want them to log in utilizingyour system, I'm sorry, but that
falls under employee ratherthan independent contractor.
(13:52):
Also, how do you pay thisperson?
You really can't pay anindependent contractor an hourly
wage.
Why?
It confuses the issue.
If it walks like a duck andquacks like a duck, the IRS is
going to say that's a duck.
I'm sorry, that's veryduck-like, and so what we have
to do is make sure that we areavoiding looking like a duck at
(14:14):
all if we're trying to passourselves off as a goose, and so
it's very, very important thatwe are aware of how we're
running our business.
And so if you're paying someonehourly, that's an employee.
You very rarely would ever payan independent contractor an
hourly wage.
You have a job for them andyou're willing to pay them a set
(14:36):
fee for that job.
Maybe it's a percentage ofsomething or what have you, but
that's what you're looking at.
So look at how you're willingto pay people, even on just
assistance for a day of you haveto think about how you're
willing to pay them.
If you say I'll pay you $20 anhour, okay, well, that sounds
like an employee to me.
And especially, think about ourday of assistance.
(14:57):
We're telling them how to setup, what to set up, why to set
up, when to set up.
We're controlling the wholething, that's it for me.
Okay.
So we have to be very careful.
Most of this we can't reallyget around.
And then you have to askyourself if you're reimbursing
them.
Am I reimbursing them for gasto get to and from this wedding,
or reimbursing them for an airtravel expense, or am I
(15:22):
reimbursing them to stay in thathotel?
If you're reimbursing them,then that's.
I'm sorry, that's an employeethat's on an independent
contractor.
So these are some of the thingsthat I think it's going to
actually impact the weddingindustry in a big way.
Think about this, aisha.
What about photographers?
A lot of photographers cannotget around that prong that talks
(15:43):
about the customarily engagedside of things or the type of
relationship I kind of gave thatexample of, or even the
business of the worker.
You can't get around that oneat all, because I give the
example of restaurant versuspainter.
Well, a photographer is notgoing to hire a DJ to pick up a
(16:06):
you know, a camera.
Yeah, I need you to get someshots here.
You have to hire anotherphotographer.
So how do we classify thatphotographer?
So it's going to be veryinteresting how to how we
proceed.
But there are some loopholes,there are some ways around it
and some states have exceptions.
I know California.
They made a huge list of a lotof exceptions to their ABC rule
(16:33):
and law.
There's a lot going on.
There's so much in depth.
You and I could probably talkon this subject for five days
straight and still not eventouch all of it.
Here's the main takeaway it isgoing to affect our industry.
It already has started toaffect our industry and if you
are a business owner and youwant to grow your team, you need
(16:53):
to make sure that you arelooking at not just the IRS
standard, because you have tomeet the IRS standard, but you
also need to be looking at yourstate laws for the Department of
Labor, because they have theirvery own.
Some of them go with what theIRS does, which is common law,
but a lot of states, more thanyou can imagine, actually go by
(17:15):
the ABC standard, which changesthings up completely, absolutely
.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
What I'm hearing you say, lori, is our wedding pros
need to do their homeworkbecause we are not fit for jail
time.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
No, no.
My best friend Absolutely mybest friend always tells me
she's like girl you do not lookgood in orange.
You need to be careful, right?
No?
Speaker 2 (17:34):
that is not our color .
Thank you so much, lori, forjoining me and sharing your
insight on this topic today.
You're welcome.
Now onto something borrowed.
In this segment we featureinformation from an alternate
source that I feel you would beinterested in.
For instance, Metro, a Britishnewspaper, put on an article
(17:58):
stating that a bride to be hasdecided to have an adult only
wedding, and her family is nottoo happy about it.
The bride posted on Reddit someunfortunate news that she's
experienced, as she justcouldn't handle seeing children
at her wedding, even if theywere related to her.
Prior to her posts, her brother, who is also a single dad and a
groomsman in the wedding, senther a text message saying that
(18:20):
his two daughters would makegreat flower girls and that he
was going to purchase theirdresses.
He just needed to know whatcolor to purchase.
The bride then shared herdecision, which got back to her
parents.
This caused complete turmoilbetween the bride, affecting her
relationship with her brotherand parents.
Now her parents stated theywill not be in attendance at the
(18:41):
wedding until she agrees toallow her nieces to attend as
well.
Here to discuss this with me abit further is Chrissy Thomas,
vice president of the certifiedwedding planner society.
Thanks for joining me, chrissy.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Thanks for having me.
This topic is oh, it's a hardhelp.
I'm glad we're discussing it.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Absolutely.
Let's get right into it.
I'm noticing that some couplesare only allowing the children
at their wedding or in theirwedding to attend their wedding.
Rarely have I heard of casessuch as this one.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
What's your take on this?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Are you seeing more couples doing away with having
children on their guest list?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
Yes, I actually am.
What I'm realizing is thatcouples are seeing that, while
children are cute, they can be adistraction and, honestly,
sometimes an added stress ontheir wedding day.
And here's the thing I am amother with two young boys seven
and three so I understand theimportance of family and wanting
your children to be included inthose certain moments of your
(19:38):
life, such as someone's weddingday.
But I also understand thatchildren can sometimes misbehave
or be disruptive, and typicallythis isn't intentional.
They are children after all.
This can be crying during theceremony, going straight to the
wedding cake with their tinylittle dirty fingers, you know.
And once the reception begins,it can sometimes turn into a
(20:00):
nightclub with lots of drinkingand some not so kid friendly
dance moves.
These are the things that tendto take place at the wedding
receptions, and couples knowthis and they want to avoid this
happening.
So, yes, I'm seeing a number ofcouples opting to host a child
free event and making theirwedding an adult only affair.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Now some parents put the bill for their children's
wedding day and they feelprivileged to add to the guest
list.
What's your take on this?
Do you think it's fair?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
This is so hard because I know there's this
mentality of it being you knowyour day and all about you and
who you're getting married to.
But when someone else isfooting the bill, they do have a
voice in the decision makingand as planners we sometimes get
caught right in the middle ofthose disputes between the
person paying and the engagedcouple.
(20:51):
So sometimes our planner rolequickly turns into that of being
a mediator, and I try toencourage my clients and the
person paying the bill to havean open and honest communication
with each other, but to also berespectful of their individual
views of what the wedding day isgoing to look like and, most
importantly, really to try tocompromise.
As a planner, I try to presentsolutions that will take into
(21:15):
account both of theirpreferences because, at the end
of the day, the person paying, Ithink, does in fact have a role
and a key into the decisionmaking of the wedding day.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I agree this particular couple is choosing to
have a child free celebrationand they mentioned that they
didn't want children to bearound the partying and drinking
at the reception.
And we can.
We can definitely relate tothat.
But in hearing about this story, do you think this bride took
the best approach in letting theguests and her family know her
decision of not having childrenat the wedding?
Speaker 3 (21:48):
I think this could have been approached differently
.
You know, for this particularcase and this story that you
mentioned, even just a directconversation between the brother
and the sister who was thebride in this, instead of just a
no hard feelings text I don'twant your kids at my wedding day
I think just a directconversation would have allowed
this family to not fall apart,because that's essentially
(22:10):
what's happening with theirdecision to not attend this
wedding.
A direct conversation of whythey're decided not to have
children at their wedding andjust having some type of mutual
understanding would have beenbetter, I think, than a text.
But as a wedding planner, oneway that you can let your
couples know that, hey, you canstill have this child free
wedding day but still allow yourguests to actually bring your
(22:32):
children to the wedding is byoffering on site babies and
services.
If your couples maybe havefamily members who are children
that they want to include in thewedding ceremony but not be
part of the wedding receptionsimilar to what the you know the
bride that you mentioned herein the story ensure that they
have someone to come pick themup after the ceremony or maybe
post ceremony photos.
(22:52):
They can also set agerestrictions so, for example,
they may be allowed, or be opento allowing, teenagers, but not
young children.
This can accommodate olderchildren who you know, let's be
honest may be a bit more behavedthan younger children.
You know, as wedding planners,we must be sure that we are
educating our clients and alsobeing their advocate.
(23:14):
If they decide to have a childfree wedding, we need to have an
open discussion with them abouttheir preferences, listen to
their concerns and also providealternative options.
Like I mentioned before, we needto prepare them in knowing that
they're probably going to get alot of questions and possibly
some pushback from their weddingguests.
So maybe create templates withsome polite responses that they
(23:35):
can use to address these guests.
We also need to remind them tobe sensitive to their wedding
guests needs.
They need to communicate theirchild fee wedding decision as
early as possible.
This can be listed on thewedding website or the details
card of their wedding invitationand for me, this is the topic
where there should be no beatingaround the bush with this.
(23:55):
It needs to be clear, it needsto be direct, so make sure the
wording is polite but clear onthe preference for an adult only
event.
At the end of the day.
It's our clients wedding dayand our role as their wedding
planner is to help navigatetheir decision and execute their
wedding day vision with grace,but also with respect for the
wedding guest attending thewedding.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
I totally agree with you, chrissy.
Thank you so much for weighingin on such an interesting topic.
You're so welcome.
All right, next up is our oldand new segment.
This is where I'll bediscussing an old trend and
what's replacing it Today.
I want to tackle no pun intended, the famous wedding tradition
(24:36):
of doing a bouquet or gartertoss.
I'm finding more and morecouples are tossing those
traditions to the side.
Let's be honest when you attenda wedding and you get to the
portion where the MC or the DJcalls all of the single ladies
and gentlemen to the dance floorfor either the wedding bouquet
toss or the garter toss, there'susually that one guest that's
(24:58):
more eager to catch the bouquetthan anyone else and the
groomsmen?
Well, they aren't really racingto the floor.
Let's face it.
Catching the floral bouquetdoes not guarantee that you'll
be the next person to getmarried, and catching the garter
doesn't necessarily mean thatyou'll be the next one to
propose.
But we've seen it many timeswhere ladies are gathering
(25:19):
around just ready to tackle oneanother down and dismantle a
perfectly beautiful bouquet,more than likely taking home
fragments of a floralarrangement or maybe even a few
scars.
On the other hand, groomsmen,who often have to be called
multiple times, make their waycasually to the dance floor only
to stand as far back aspossible, making sure that
(25:42):
garter lands everywhere but attheir feet, and when it does,
there's always the awkward pauseas to who will pick it up first
.
So instead of continuing to seewedding guests participate in
these old age traditions, let'soffer our couples a few more
ideas to consider For thebouquet toss.
The first is simply handing thefloral bouquet to a very
(26:04):
special person in your couple'slife.
This way, the bouquet is stillintact and there's no personal
injury to worry about.
There's the anniversary dance,which highlights all of the
married couples in the room.
The MC or DJ can play thecouple's favorite song, invite
the beautiful married couples tothe dance floor and call out
the anniversary year, startingfrom the newly married couple to
(26:26):
those lucky couples that havecelebrated their diamond
anniversary.
The last couple standing takeshome the floral bouquet.
Have your single guests do adance off.
Your couple can simply invitethem to the dance floor and let
them engage in a friendly,competitive dance battle.
This way we just might avoidthe bodily harm tactics.
(26:47):
Involve all of your weddingguests and let the crowd decide
who gets to take home thebouquet.
Finally, give a flower from thebouquet to each single guest.
This way, no single person isleft out, but they each have a
chance to receive a piece of thesought-after bouquet.
When it comes to the garter toss, not all couples want to be on
(27:09):
display in the middle of thereception for all eyes to see
how the garter will be removed.
So let's avoid anyembarrassment from the couple or
the guests and toss other items, such as the groom's tie, or
add a sports element to it andgently and I mean gently toss an
autographed basketball,baseball or football.
(27:30):
Let's engage our couples toreally think about other items
that their guests will enjoy andreally go after during this
moment in their weddingreception.
Or simply toss the boutonniers.
This way, multiple guests cantake home a special element from
the wedding day.
Either way, there are so manyideas that we can discuss with
(27:51):
our couples to get them thinkingabout the endless possibilities
and making the old traditionalwedding bouquet and garter toss
a new and improved tradition ofspecial, safe and fun moments to
remember.
That wraps up our September2023 wedding industry news.
Thank you so much for listening.
We look forward to having youjoin us next month here on the
(28:13):
Wedding Planner Podcast.
This has been Nick Ониay fromU247 spacing in and abroad.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!