John Ondrasik Five For Fighting | Ethics & Allies | Israel-Hamas War | Conversation w/Shana Meyerson - The Yoga of War Podcast: Fighting for Israel & The Jewish People

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, this is Shana Meyerson with the Yoga of War podcast

(00:04):
because of my amazing guest today,
John Ondrasik, otherwise known as Five for Fighting.
To set up today's discussion,
I would like to start by showing his video.
Okay.
Also, I'm gonna hope,
I gotta click share sound.

(00:24):
Okay, my technological skills
leave something to be desired.
However, all levity aside,
this is why we are here today.
I'm gonna give you four words.
We are not all right.

(00:45):
We are not all right when we see young girls
pull from their home and drag through the streets.
When we see grandmothers being pulled to waves
and children shot in front of their families.
We are not all right when right here in the city of New York,
you have those who celebrate at the same time
when the devastation is taking place in our country.

(01:07):
This is a time for choosing.
This is a time to mourn.
The moral man is loathy
Forbidden loss forlorn

(01:31):
I don't understand, I don't understand
How you can lock yourself in the mirror
How did that blood fill up your eyes

(01:58):
We, we are, we are not

(02:22):
Okay
Hey, hey, hey
Okay

(02:44):
You had behind your babies
You had behind your kids

(03:08):
The harvards have rabies
They'd holocaust again
How you can lock yourself in the mirror

(03:34):
How did that blood spill from your eyes

(03:59):
Okay

(04:21):
Hey
Okay
Hey
Hey
Hey

(04:46):
Hey
Let's get out of here
Evil's on the march
Evil's on the march
Every good woman, every good man

(05:13):
We are, we are not

(05:36):
Okay
Okay
Okay

(05:59):
Okay
Okay
Okay

(06:31):
Okay
We are definitely not okay.
Okay
Okay

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Okay
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Okay
Okay
Okay

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Okay
Okay
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Okay

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Okay
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Okay
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Okay

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Okay
Okay
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Okay
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Okay
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Okay
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Okay
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(10:19):
Okay
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Okay
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Okay
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(11:48):
Okay
Okay
if he would meet with me.
To this point, he's declined,
but I will be meeting with the new chancellor,

(12:09):
which is good.
And I think, you know, I think, as you said,
some people have been talking the talk
but not walking the walk,
but I think it's so important to go to UCLA,
to go to Harvard, to go to Cornell, to go to Columbia,
and stand up and face the bullies.
Cause a lot of them are bullies.
A lot of the kids have been indoctrinated.

(12:30):
And certainly we've seen over the last year
that, you know, certainly cowardice is contagious,
but so is courage.
And if you give people comfort in that they're in the right
and knowing that they're in the right,
they can stand up against this kind of raging anti-Semitism.
It's really Marxism.
Then I think, you know, I think that's how we use the arts

(12:52):
and we use our platforms to do that.
So if you want to come up to Cornell on the 11th,
certainly be our guest, but it'll be,
I think it'll be important thing.
And we have a lot of other colleges lined up.
Yeah. And Patricia is also slated to be
on this podcast eventually.
Oh good.
Her plate is pretty full, as is yours.

(13:14):
So let me start out.
When listening to, when watching, okay, and the video,
and I just think that the three dimensionality
that's added by the video really just,
just triples, quadruples, a hundred times down
on the potency of the song itself.
As a Jew and a Zionist myself,

(13:36):
what I hear is a song defending Israel and the Jewish people,
but I know it's so much more than that.
In your words, what is this song really about?
It's really about the battle for civilization.
And many people have said this, you know, Barry Weiss
and others, but to me, these are not political songs.

(13:58):
They're not based on religion.
They're not based on country, not based on ideology even.
They're moral messages.
Blood on my hands was basically saying,
don't abandon your allies and 20 million women
to the Taliban.
That shouldn't be hard.
Can One Man Save the World was about, well,

(14:19):
this tyrant Putin is trying to reconstitute the Soviet Union
and starting with Ukraine.
We should probably stop that.
And with October 7th, you know, if Hamas is not evil
and what happened on October 7th is not evil,
nothing is evil.
So to me, these really are moral messages.
And as always, you know, history shows us
that typically Jewish people and Israel

(14:42):
are on the front lines for the battle for civilization.
But what's been so stunning since October 7th,
a year and a few weeks ago,
is how the world has lost its soul.
People that claim to stand for human rights,
women's rights, gay rights, go down the list,
have become paralyzed and silent.

(15:05):
I think that's what's stunned so many of us.
The arts, as you mentioned, complete disgrace.
You know, when I performed the concert for New York,
basically every living icon was on that stage
at Madison Square Garden,
condemning Osama Bin Laden and standing with America.
For whatever reason, that's not happened after October 7th.
And we can, you know, there's a lot of, you know,
conversation about that.

(15:26):
But the song really is, to me, it's like,
the first line of the song is, this is a time for choosing.
There's no sitting on the sidelines.
Either you are for one side or the other.
Because if you're silent, like the end of the video,
Martin Luther King's quote, you're complicit.
And I've talked to many artists, you know,
and people who have not been indoctrinated,

(15:48):
who actually have a certain sense of moral clarity.
And many of them, you know their name.
Many of them, as I said, make their, you know,
make their brand on being for human rights.
And they say, well, I agree with you, but I'm scared.
And I don't want my concerts protested.
And I say, I get it, man.
I got people freaking out at my concerts
and screaming at me.

(16:09):
But you understand that's the same argument
people used in 1938.
And they have no response to that.
So it's, to me, really, the song is about that.
It's about, here's what happened.
But it's also about Putin, China, Iran.
It's all connected.
And that's what we're fighting for.
And tragically, Israel's on the front lines.
But thank God Israel's on the front lines.

(16:30):
Because nobody else seems to do it.
Nobody else seems to have the courage and the commitment
and the fortitude to do it.
Certainly America has not in the last four years,
eight years go back.
But thank God for Israel.
Because I don't know where we'd be without that leadership
and without that heart and mind and stone.
Sure.

(16:50):
And may I add, thank you.
And David Dreeman, your other musketeer.
I know you've referred to the two of you
as the two musketeers.
It's a very disheartening reference
to the only two influential voices in music
outside of Israel, of course,
who are ardently and unapologetically

(17:11):
defending Israel and the Jewish people.
And of course, he's got skin in the game.
He's Jewish and he's even trained as a cantor
from what I understand.
So you come from a very, very different place.
Now I do wanna just reference
because you talked about the quote
from Martin Luther King Jr.
That's at the end of your video,

(17:33):
which is so relevant to this discussion.
Because while your video ends with this quote,
which in summation, silence is complicity,
David's most famous song also is his soul-pounding version
of Sound of Silence.
And there's a theme here.
Silence is complicity.

(17:53):
Right now, it's deafening.
It's deafening.
And I think that, I guess my question is,
so I know, of course, based on not only you just saying this,
but based on just common morality,
that there are people who stand with us
against this evil within the music industry.
But how did we get to this place

(18:15):
where musicians have no shame wearing a bloody hand pin?
And if anybody thinks that that bloody, that red, sorry,
red hand is a symbol of peace and ceasefire
and love and support for the Palestinians,
no, it's actually a reference
to when the Palestinians kidnapped two Israeli soldiers

(18:39):
and disemboweled them.
I'm not even gonna go beyond that,
what happened beyond that,
but they took their bloody hands and put them on the window.
So let me ask you this, John,
if people are so scared that they're going to be boycotted
or booed or lose social media followers,
and like I have in a big, big way

(19:00):
for standing up like this in the yoga space,
why are these other people so unashamed
to stand up literally for the most evil
and nefarious terror we have seen in the modern age?
Well, again, I think it's a very long conversation,

(19:21):
but when I was in Israel,
I was speaking to Nathan Sharansky, Ukrainian,
and we had a lot to talk about.
And he said to me, 20 years ago, somebody asked him,
what's the biggest threat to Western civilization?
And 20 years ago, he said, American academia.
So I think you have to start with our academic,

(19:43):
because this is nothing new.
For decades, this radicalism, this Marxism,
this antisemitism, this oppressor dogma,
this kind of woke kind of theory of the world
where everybody's a victim,
that has been going on for 20 years.
And I think most of us thought, well,
those kids have to graduate, get a job,
and they'll wake up.
Well, they haven't.
They basically become the presidents of Harvard.

(20:04):
They run the New York Times.
They run Facebook.
So I think that's one place to look.
Also, if you look at supposedly these moral institutions
around the world, the UN, okay,
the UN has literally been Hamas.
They voted to not condemn Hamas for October 7th.
Organizations that have a history

(20:24):
of being on the front line of human rights,
Amnesty International,
the National Organization for Women,
crickets, either they're complete Palestinian oppressor,
this is genocide, nut jobs, or they're silent.
So I think you have groups that in the past
would speak clarity who are either lost their minds

(20:45):
or they're quiet.
So I think there's that.
Also, I think there's a fashion to,
a lot of these kids on these colleges,
they don't know what's going on,
but they think they're doing something virtuous.
And there is really nobody there to educate them
on what they're talking about.
And again, I think in the arts,
this wokeism, this oppressor, this Marxism,

(21:06):
this anti-Semitism within our youth
is not just limited to the arts.
Look at TikTok, nine out of 10 posts
about what's going on in the Middle East
are completely pro-Gaza, pro-Hamas.
So one thing I think that's happened too is
Israel is not very good at,

(21:27):
I hate to use the word propaganda,
but fighting the culture war.
And people that stand for good,
because they just feel, well, it's obvious, right?
Well, it is obvious, but the world is upside down.
So I think the Hamas, Iran,
the people that support them, Al Jazeera,
the mainstream media, the BBC, go down the list.

(21:49):
They are very good at pushing their message.
And we're not very good at fighting back.
And the way to fight back is through the arts.
So again, if we have people who believe
our side cowardly sitting on the sidelines,
we're completely outnumbered.
So there's a lot of ways we got here,
but I do think there are things that we are doing
and you're seeing a little bit of a turn of the tide,

(22:12):
but certainly we have a long way to go.
Sure, if I can make a note about the PR war,
because on one hand, I've been saying this
for more than 20 years.
I mean, this is not my first rodeo.
But on the other hand, there's only so much you could do
and the mass media is determined to suppress your voice.

(22:32):
I mean, I get this every day.
I mean, people tell me all every day,
like I'm in control of Israeli media.
Why aren't they putting it on?
I'm like, well, the prime minister has daily briefings,
COGAT who delivers the aid has daily briefings
and the IDF has daily briefings, okay?
It's not about, and then we've got people like Ilan Levy

(22:54):
who have independently and Jonathan Konrickis
who have also taken this message and run with it.
Not to mention the legions of others, okay,
but there's many.
The problem is that the mass media,
it's been proven and documented,
is unwilling to run these stories
because it's a counter narrative to the, like you said,

(23:15):
the Palestinian people are the oppressed people.
And so why would they ever wanna say anything
that defends Israel?
Because it goes against everything,
the whole story that they've been trying
to build for decades.
So I'm gonna say the onus is not in this war
on Israel anymore.

(23:35):
But I will say in previous wars,
if you go back to Ben-Gurion, I mean, he literally said,
it doesn't matter what the world thinks of us.
We're doing what we know is right.
And I guess in the pre-information age,
that was acceptable, right?
News traveled a lot slower, influence was a lot narrower

(23:57):
and they were in an existential fight for their existence
exactly as we are right now.
But I don't think unfortunately on pure numbers,
not to mention like the bots and the actual propaganda,
it's harder to fight lies with truth.

(24:18):
It's a very, very difficult fight.
So yes, there's no question we are losing the PR war,
but the cards, the information cards are so stacked
against Israel and the Jewish people right now
that I don't know that the free press
is ever going to be the voice
that overtakes the New York Times.

(24:39):
No, I think that's true, but you can't,
we can just sit here and lament it and say all is lost,
which I feel sometimes.
On the other hand, you look at that song, okay.
It didn't have one play on the radio.
It was never played on MTV
and it has tens of millions of streams
and it's really been a global weird phenomenon, right?
So it shows that we can crack through.

(25:02):
I also think the world is changing.
You look at Elon Musk on Twitter,
and whatever, if you agree with them or not,
there's ways that people can get out information now
beyond the mainstream media.
You saw, I saw a poll the other day,
trust in the mainstream media is like 10%.
So nobody trusts them.
And if you look at the polls of the American people,

(25:24):
and I actually, I have an op-ed coming out
talking about the song for the hostages,
and I mentioned this.
85% of Americans support Israel.
And I write people like support Israel,
like, okay, we got your back.
They support going into Rafa, killing Sinwar,
taking out al-Hamas.
Many of them support taking out the Iranian nuclear sites.

(25:46):
So the majority of Americans support Israel.
You would never know that if you watch TV
or you went to a college campus.
So we have to use that.
And you find creative ways to counter the narrative.
And ways you do that is you go to the college campuses,
you get on TV, you walk through the mobs,
you face them down, you write songs,

(26:07):
you have collaborations with Israeli artists,
American artists, non-Jewish artists.
I think one thing is critical.
And that's why I think Patty
and what I'm doing is significant.
You can't do it alone.
You can't do it alone.
You need non-Jewish influencers, politicians, artists,
business leaders, tech leaders,

(26:30):
to find a soul and understand that this is a battle
for all of us.
It has nothing to do with religion.
And so we need to compile,
and we need to run this like a campaign.
The other side is very good.
They have billions of dollars of assets,
Qatar's pouring billions of dollars in our colleges.
We have a lot of people doing nice little things,

(26:50):
but we're not coordinated running a campaign
for a 20-year culture war.
So I think that's one thing I'm working on with people
is let's really get some resources.
Let's do some big things that the media is forced to cover.
One reason we're gonna go to Cornell
is people that don't want us to go there,
they'll make their voices clear,
and people that don't wanna talk about it

(27:10):
is gonna have to talk about it
because we're gonna be there and it's gonna be a story.
This op-ed I have coming out next week
about the song for the hostages.
Sorry, but it's gonna put the hostages back
where they belong in the spotlight.
So there's ways to do it.
And I think sometimes we get so frustrated
and we just wanna give up,
but I do see signs that things
are starting to turn a little bit.

(27:32):
So I would tell you and your viewers to take some heart.
And last year was my, as I said,
it was kind of the year to cry and lament and be despondent.
I think this year is the year to stand up and fight back
because we have right on our side.
And we're gonna win.
We're gonna win this, but we need everybody.

(27:54):
We need everybody.
We need everybody and people that in the past
were uncomfortable wearing these or talking about it,
everybody needs to stand up and stand together.
So I think we certainly have a lot to do,
but we also have a lot of plans in the works.
So take some spirit from that.
And I don't know if you know this, John,
but today actually is Simplist Torah,

(28:16):
which is the actual on the Jewish calendar
anniversary of the 10-7 massacre.
So today it's very, very significant
that your voice is being heard.
We're closing in on 30 minutes.
I wanna respect your time.
I have a few more questions.
I can wrap you.
That was good.
You were good?

(28:37):
Okay, terrific.
Thank you so much.
So I'm going to delve into a dark water
that you are very welcome to not answer.
And it's about, because it's about Roger Waters.
And I just, okay.

(28:57):
So I think you're ready to answer.
Okay, so anybody who doesn't know,
and it's remarkable to me how many people
who support Israel don't know this,
but Roger Waters of Pink Floyd fame,
I had to throw away my CDs from him, just FYI,
has been, although the band has disavowed him,
I have to be honest, but I cannot support

(29:20):
the single most anti-Semitic voice in the music industry.
He'd been the repulsively and so deeply anti-Semitic
ringleader of the anti-Israel BDS,
which is Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions movement
in the music industry.
Literally anybody who says that they're gonna go to Israel,

(29:41):
he swoops in, doesn't matter.
I probably, for really small artists,
they're pretty excited to hear from Roger Waters,
but he swoops in and threatens them that they shouldn't go.
I'm gonna have to assume that he's been in contact with you,
not only over the song, but also the fact that you dared
to go to Israel and perform in hostage square.

(30:05):
Am I right in that assumption?
I have not heard from Roger Waters.
To be honest with you, I kind of look at him
as just a crazy nut job.
You know, and frankly, you could add Eric Clapton
to that as well.
He said some anti-Semitic things in the last couple,
that really broke my heart.
And to your point too, I think we need to make it clear.

(30:26):
David Gilmore, who's basically the other side of Pink Floyd,
did a duet with a Ukrainian singer
during the Ukrainian war.
And so he's disavowed him.
I know people that play in the Pink Floyd cover bands
and they all know all the kids,
and even Roger Waters' children, I think,
are very upset what's going on.
So I actually am not so upset with Roger Waters

(30:47):
because he's a kook, he's a nut job.
There's Putin lovers, there's anti-Semites.
Here's what bothers me.
And I'll say their names.
Bono, Bruce Springsteen, Barbara Streisand, okay?
Steven Spielberg, I'm sorry.
It's like these people, these people for decades
have been saying, look at us and our moral platforms

(31:09):
and we fight for all things good, listen to us.
But crickets, Bruce Springsteen has a Jewish drummer
and the fact that people that know better
and have stature, and they're not crazy.
They're not crazy like Roger Waters.
The fact that they have remained silent,
that is why we were here.
If on October 8th, every artist, world artist came out

(31:33):
and said, release the hostages, this is evil.
The UN came out and said, we're gonna basically export
these Qatari Hamas leaders for trial.
The America stood up and said,
if you don't release our hostages by October 10th,
we're coming October 9th.
If the world would have stood up
with some sense of moral spine,

(31:55):
this would never have happened.
And the artists are as big a part of that
as the politicians.
So again, when they get back on their soap boxes these days,
I just have to look at them and kind of sneer.
But again, I get back to we can lament all that
or we can fight through it.
And there are people who I think are more open to speaking.

(32:17):
I think when the war ends, people will be more open
to putting together some of these more collaborative efforts.
But that's really who bothers me, the people who know better,
not the crazy nut jobs like Roger Waters.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's funny because my sister and I laughed
that we're probably the only two people in the world

(32:38):
that on our primary playlist have,
there's a video, I don't know if you've seen it,
Barbara Streisand talking to Gold in my Ear
on the 30th anniversary of the founding
of the state of Israel.
And you can find it on YouTube.
And it's like a lot of stars,

(33:00):
they care when it behooves them to care.
And I went to, so I'm like, you know,
I haven't heard anything from Streisand.
Why don't I just go to her feed
and see what she's talking about?
And she's talking about, I'm gonna mess this up,
but like children's cancer and women's rights.
And I'm like, really?
Like, what about the things you used to care about?

(33:22):
And the one speech, the one speech that I've heard
from Steven Spielberg, and I'm pretty on top of this,
but I might've missed something.
There was that, what about Islam?
Yes, but what about Islamophobia?
What about Islamophobia?
When Black Lives Matter came, nobody was,
I mean, literally the worst thing you could say
in the world was all lives matter.

(33:43):
You are a bigot, you are a racist,
but he couldn't even say anti-Semitism is a problem.
He, the guy who collected all of the testimonials
of every Holocaust survivor, and to his credit,
he is compiling those of the, not all of them,

(34:07):
but of 10, seven survivors as well.
But he couldn't even give one speech
without saying anti-Semitism and Islamophobia.
It really is, you know, it really is a mind virus.
You know, Elon Musk called it a mind virus.
It really is.
It takes good people and drives them crazy
and makes them cowards.

(34:27):
Because, you know, when they go to their parties,
they wanna make sure that everybody's their buddy
and everybody's like, you know, hey, hey, you know,
you know, we're all kind of on the same woke team.
And again, it's not to me, it's not political,
it's ideological.
And I just think these people, and the problem is,
the problem is if Steven Spielberg said,

(34:49):
free the hostages, period.
If Steven Spielberg came out and said,
free the hostages, period.
People would listen to them.
They have that platform, they have that weight,
they have that culture.
But the way they have to mealy mouth it
and the moral relativity of, well, you know, everybody's,
you know, we hate war, there should be a ceasefire.

(35:11):
The same strategy Hamas has applied year after year works.
You know, the fact that they do that,
knowing, knowing deep down their heart
that they're basically empowering the terrorists,
that is why we're not okay.
And that is why we need to not wait for them.
And maybe one day they'll join the cause.

(35:31):
And I certainly welcome them on board.
You know, hopefully they'll have an epiphany one day.
And I think many Jewish people are re-evaluating
their worldview because you said, you know,
Jewish people stood with Martin Luther King,
they were there for civil rights, they're there for gay rights,
they were there for, you know,
so many of these humanitarian, you know, causes.

(35:51):
And then all of a sudden, when it happens to you,
hello, hello.
So I think, again, I think if your cause
doesn't fit your political agenda,
many of these groups show their hypocrisy,
particularly women's groups, you know, who, you know,
the people took four months to say,
oh, well, maybe raping those Jewish girls at Nova was bad.

(36:13):
You know, so on the other hand,
we are seeing people for who they are.
We're seeing organizations for who they are.
We're seeing politicians for who they are.
We're seeing celebrities for who they are.
And that's a good thing.
That's a good thing.
Because as I said, this is a time for choosing.
You're either on the side of good or evil, in my opinion.
And if you're on the fence, you're on the wrong side.

(36:35):
Yeah, it's interesting.
When I spoke to Noam Dorman,
I don't know if you're familiar with him.
He has the Comedy Cellar in New York.
He has a show on Sirius XM.
And he's a libertarian.
And his view is we don't fight hate by canceling it.
We fight it, like you say, by shining a light on it.
And in, but it goes both ways because honestly,

(37:03):
99% of the narrative, if you turn off Fox News,
that we see on any news outlet is anti-Israel.
And so shining on a light on it also creates the danger
of people seeing something virtuous in it, right?
As you said, these mobs on the college campuses,

(37:26):
I mean, everybody knows by now.
They don't even know the river.
They don't know the sea.
OK, we know that.
But how did they become intoxicated?
They became intoxicated because of this light.
So it's really a very complicated sort
of calculus of shining the light versus turning off

(37:49):
all the lights and blackening the room, I think.
Well, it's also people need to take action in their own lives.
And the way this is going to stop,
especially Jewish families, stop sending your kids to Harvard.
Stop donating.
Stop donating.
Stop sending your kids to Harvard.
Stop voting for people who are on the fence.

(38:10):
One day, they're for Israel.
The next day, they're threatening them with, you know,
we're not going to send you arms if you don't do this for us.
You know, take action that can make a difference.
I'm working with many law firms who are suing these schools.
You need to sue them.
The report on UCLA just came out the other day.
There was over 100 assaults.
You had to wear wristbands to get across campus.

(38:33):
I mean, it's insane.
When a judge ordered UCLA to allow Jewish kids to move across campus,
UCLA appealed that.
So how do you change that behavior?
First of all, you sue the hell out of them.
You stop sending your kids there.
You stop donating.
And you go there.
We go there.
We stand, me and you, we stand with the alumni and say,

(38:55):
you're destroying our school.
We're not going to accept that.
And you know what?
You, president, if you can't handle this, you're gone.
And so we have to take all of these actions.
And there's incredible Jewish and non-Jewish students,
19, 20, 21 years old, standing alone in these schools,
Shabbos at Harvard.
Go down the list.

(39:16):
They're heroes, these kids.
They should give us hope.
They're the heroes of the future.
So we need to go stand there with them.
And also, when we do that, the kids that have been indoctrinated
and don't really know, I think they are going to think twice.
And the parents of those kids who are in those mobs,
they need to own up to what they're allowing their kids to do.
So a lot of this has nothing to do with the politicians,

(39:37):
with the celebrities.
It's like, what are we doing in our lives with our kids?
And if it's like, yeah, I'm going to pull my kid out of Cornell,
yeah, I wanted 25 years for my kids to go there,
and I raised this money, and I'm an alma.
It's like, that's a really hard thing for me to do.
Yeah.
You know, it's hard to do, be a hostage family.
That's what's hard to do.
So I think people need to start looking at themselves

(39:57):
in the mirror as well.
I agree with you completely.
But I think that unfortunately, the cache of the Ivy League
has not been destroyed to the point where, like,
because I'm at the age where most of my friends and family
are sending their kids to college right now.
My niece is a senior here at UCLA.

(40:17):
And the only question was, what's the best school I get into?
Because as she was coming in as a freshman, there was already,
like, again, this isn't new.
It's just bigger.
The anti-Israeli, anti-Semitic sentiment
was already just everywhere on campus.
And, you know, I mean, her family, my sister is like,
the proud is brewing.

(40:40):
It was just like, there's no question.
Like, there literally was no question
that she was going to go there.
And I hear this from kids all the time.
Like, I understand there's anti-Semitism at fill in the blank.
However, like, I want that on my resume.
It's a difficult fight, but I agree that hopefully these
lawsuits, and you say like 100 incidents at UCLA,

(41:03):
Chavez's and his anonymous group of friends
who have the lawsuit have a 77-page indictment plus
an amendment that's over 120 pages of all the things that
went on at Harvard.
So let me ask you a question, John, because, and this is

(41:26):
going to lead me to another question.
You obviously did this out of a moral imperative.
And I find that word to be a little naive,
or that phrase, moral imperative,
because the truth is there are no imperatives in this world,
or otherwise everybody would be speaking up.
It's really a moral choice.

(41:46):
And it's only a certain type of person
who feels that imperative.
Now, I'm thinking specifically about my conversation
with Coleman Hughes versus Takana Honeycoats,
or however he pronounces his name.
These are both African-American men who grew up in America.

(42:13):
And they grew up, one, with parents who basically
indoctrinated them to believe this oppressor-pressor
dichotomy, and one, Coleman's parents, who said,
we're here to succeed in the world.
And so our upbringing, I'm realizing,

(42:35):
because these two boys, had they had, I guess,
the same father, probably would have
come to different conclusions as young adults as to what
their place in society was.
So I'm sort of curious on that note,
what overarching morals and values

(42:58):
were you brought up with?
I mean, I know you're not Jewish,
but did you grow up in a religious home?
Or could you tell me a little bit about your childhood
and upbringing?
Yeah, sure.
My mom was a piano teacher, a music major from USC.
My dad was an astrophysicist at NASA,
so he was the engineer.
And we were raised kind of a Christian family.

(43:21):
We weren't super religious.
We didn't go to church very much,
but we kind of celebrated the holidays.
And my sister is a Presbyterian minister.
But yeah, my dad, we have a family business,
so I think my dad kind of took over
when my grandfather passed away.
So we understand about making a payroll and paying taxes

(43:43):
and seeing the American dream every day
and seeing all the amazing things America has to provide.
So I think I kind of grew up in a centrist, you know,
we liked Reagan, you know, because he stood up
to the Soviet Union, you know, things like that.
But I think the concert for New York for me

(44:03):
really kind of maybe was a tipping point,
because after that, seeing Superman become that song,
you know, one of the songs for 9-11,
I saw how music matters in a way way beyond fame and fortune
and hit songs and all that stuff.
And I started working with heroic event,
you know, heroic people, you know, our soldiers,

(44:23):
meeting Gold Star families,
working with Gary Sinise for our troops,
for the Gary Sinise Foundation.
So my passion for 20 years has been about freedom, right?
And who protects our freedom? Our soldiers, right?
So I have this big kind of something in my gut
about freedom and the Western values,
the Judeo-Christian ethic.

(44:44):
And I believe for the world, that's the best shot,
you know, democracies.
And even though I'm not a very religious person,
I think I probably practice many of the religious values
and live my life in a way
that's maybe more religious than most,
because I do have those kind of values.

(45:06):
And I've learned so much, actually, in the last year
about, you know, the Jewish religion.
And when I came back from Israel,
I was changed.
You know, I took my son with me, he was 24.
But to see people who are always under threat,
always under siege, but able to find joy in life.
Like the day I was in Israel, you know,

(45:27):
I performed in Hashish Square the night I ran attacked.
And the next day, you know, people were at the beach,
people were going to work,
people were like, you know, at the restaurants.
And I'm like, if that happened in the United States,
everybody would either be hanging under their bed
or half of them would be in Canada.
It's like, so I've learned about able to, you know,

(45:48):
to enjoy life during these tough times.
And I practice my own little Sabbath, you know,
I turn my phone off and, you know,
I spend more time with my family.
So I think, you know, for me,
I share, I think, the same values
that the people that are worldview have.
And to me, they're not so much religious values,
even though religious practices, I think,

(46:09):
enhance those values.
But I'm also, my parents, you know,
I'm like so many of us, I'm my parents' son
and their values and kind of what they believe in
is what I believe in.
Yeah, yeah.
When you go to, I spend a lot of time in Israel.
I've been there probably 25 times in the last decade.

(46:30):
That's including the two years I wasn't there for COVID.
And what you realize, the Joua De'viv there is unparalleled,
unparalleled on earth.
And it's because of the old saying,
live each day as if it were your last.
I mean, in Israel, they literally,
literally, since its founding,

(46:52):
don't know if that day will be their last.
And it's also why they're the startup nation,
why they have such tremendous innovation,
because they have the biggest problem,
like literally the biggest problems on earth.
And so like figuring out, you know,
whatever cures to cancer are small problems for them,
or how to make a paralyzed person walk again.

(47:14):
They're like, of course there's an answer to that.
You know, we're in the process
of trying to figure out world peace.
Like you wanna know how to build a better internet?
We could do that tomorrow.
It's a very, very unique type of a society for sure.
John, was Israel ever on your radar before last October,

(47:38):
or is this sort of,
was a great sort of awakening to what's going on over there?
A little bit of both.
And my wife is a Berkowitz, you know,
she didn't raise practicing,
but we talked a lot about going to Israel over the years.
I had some good buddies go on a trip right after COVID

(48:01):
that I almost went on,
but I had to do some touring here in the States.
So we'd been talking about going,
my kids wanted to go, of course.
So, and I can't, you know,
I'm looking forward to going back
when things have settled down
and bringing my wife and bringing my daughter.
And really, you know, we had a day in Jerusalem there,
but of course it was crazy.
We were doing so many things.

(48:22):
So I look forward to going back
and just kind of immersing
and just kind of enjoying and living the life.
But no, it was, you know, you said it, look, as you know,
cause you have all those CDs,
I have a song called a 100 years,
which is basically about appreciate the moment, right?
And basically if there was a song of mine for Israel,

(48:43):
it would be a hundred years because they do,
they appreciate the moment.
And it's sad that it takes the threat of terrorist attack
that basically happens every day
to have that attitude in life.
But I think there's something to that
and that kind of fortitude
and why Israel is where they are right now,
why Sinwar is dead,
why basically every Hezbollah leader lasts about three days,

(49:07):
all these things that we see every day
that almost seem out of a movie.
As you said, nobody could do that except Israel.
And Israel, you know, to their credit
is basically saying to the rest of the world,
sorry, we're gonna do it our way.
And as usual, it's looking like it's the right way.

(49:28):
Do you know what Golda Meir said Israel's secret weapon was
when it comes to warfare?
No.
They have no choice.
Well, that's right.
That's right.
And I think you'll be amused to know who she said that to.
It was a baby Joe Biden.

(49:48):
It was his first trip abroad as a Senator.
And she said, do you want to have,
he loves telling the story, by the way,
it's how he proves he's a Zionist.
She said, do you want to meet the press
and have this moment?
And he said, yes.
And she opens the office doors
and the press is there waiting, right?

(50:09):
And he was really stunned and shocked
by what they had discussed behind closed doors.
And she said to him, don't look so sad,
we have a secret weapon.
And so the press captured him like with this state of shock,
like, oh my, like he's thinking nuclear weapons, right?
And she's like, we have no choice.

(50:32):
So can I ask just two quick creative questions
about this song?
Because I know you said in your Ted talk
that it took you 45 minutes to write one of my favorite
songs of all time, Superman, which is, it's so profound.
I mean, it blows my mind to think that.
So I'm wondering two things when it comes to the song,

(50:55):
Okay, and Song for the Hostages is sort of this brand new
thing to add onto the list,
but like how long after 10.7,
did you know you had to write this song?
And did it come with that same sense of divine inspiration
or did it take a while to sort of process and perfect?

(51:17):
I know it came out in December.
I'm just wondering creatively what the journey was
to this song.
Yeah, unlike the other two you mentioned,
Blood on My Hands and Can One Man Save the World
came very quickly because, Blood on My Hands,
I was so angry that my friends were literally going down
to Afghanistan to rescue people we abandoned.
That was just like a scream.

(51:38):
Can One Man Save the World I wrote very quickly
because I thought Zelensky would be assassinated
within a week.
This one, when October 7th happened,
I didn't feel like I have to write a song
because there's no words for that.
But I think the seed was that Eric Adams speech
that you hear at the top of the video of him saying,
something's broken in the country

(51:59):
when thousands of people are celebrating these atrocities.
And I think we all believe that,
but I think what really triggered the song
was the collapse of so many of our moral institutions
in the next few months.
I don't think anybody thought the UN
would become this Hamas cheerleading squad.
I didn't think anybody thought the BBC
and the AP and many American outlets

(52:21):
would quickly become this like Israel's committing genocide
and using fake numbers from the Gaza Health Department.
Literally, it's such a joke.
They literally became these automaton robots for evil.
And of course, I wasn't really aware of Rashida Tlaib
and some of the other folks on Congress

(52:43):
who were just basically Hamas sycophants.
So that scared me.
And the fact that people weren't standing up to them
scared me.
And so then I felt, and then I kept waiting
for all the artists to write the songs.
I'm like, okay, it's pretty obvious Bono.
It's like, you know, pretty obvious Springsteen.

(53:03):
Where's the song?
Where's the song?
Nobody was writing the song.
Nobody was saying anything.
So I think at that point, I'm like,
I need to write something.
I think the two things that came very quickly
is this is a time for choosing and we're not okay.
The lyric came very quickly,
but the music took much longer
because I wanted to have the right tone.

(53:24):
So I listed some classical funeral marches.
I listened to some old Jewish music
and I recorded the song.
It's a very hard vocal to sing
because I'm literally kind of screaming.
That's not my thing.
But I think what really brought the song home,
and I had kind of the piano vocal for a month or two.
And then I'm like, why don't I bring

(53:44):
one of my prodigy cello players over?
Let's put the human element in.
And when the cello went on,
and it's interesting as we're recording the cello,
my friend, Dave Egger, he's just a master
and everything he plays is beautiful.
And everything you hear is like, oh, it's amazing.
But we're recording, my wife came in
and she's a music publisher.
She's an expert at music.

(54:05):
And she said, yeah, it's beautiful,
but it's totally wrong.
And so I showed Dave,
so this is probably not the way you do most sessions,
but let's look at these pictures from Nova
and look at some of these people who've been tortured.
And then he played that part where the chorus,
where you just have that searing cello note

(54:27):
that is basically stabbing you in the heart and in the head.
So I think that cello really gave the song
the human pain, suffering
that makes the song, I think, in some ways transcendent.
So, and we did the same thing with the song for the hostages.
I kind of wrote a piano vocal and we added,

(54:48):
come some strings that actually the one of the viola,
the viola player who played on it
was one of the original fiddlers on the roof on Broadway.
So we thought that was Chris Cardona.
So we thought, I felt that when there was something
appropriate for having,
Chris, a Jewish man played fiddler on the roof
playing the song for the hostages.

(55:10):
His son's a Drexel, he's going through us right now.
We're going to Drexel.
So again, I think for that song, it took a while
and the video really took, that took the time.
It took probably two and a half months
because I know I had to get the video right.
And there were so many things I wanted to get in there.
Well, it took a while and I had a great editor,

(55:31):
but to me, as you said, the video is critical to the song
and the song is critical to the video.
And that's basically music.
At the end of the day, that's where you aspire to.
Will there be a video coming out
for the song for the hostages?
We'll be putting out a lyric video next week,
a very simple lyric video.

(55:52):
And then I imagine either we, we're already talking
or some other folks will do some videos
with actual images of the hostages.
But the main part of this release of this song
is we are starting, we're launching a yellow ribbon campaign
for America and Israel and the world.
You're a little younger than me,
but I think we both remember as kids,

(56:15):
the Iranian hostage crisis where every tree in America
had a yellow ribbon around it.
And that's not happening now.
So basically this song was written to put the hostages,
their families back in the spotlight.
And the way we could all do that is tie a ribbon
around every tree.

(56:35):
It doesn't matter what politics you lean on,
what religion you are.
So we have a big thing coming and we'll be working on that.
And hopefully I look forward to seeing your video
of you tied your yellow ribbon around your tree, Shana
and all your friends and everybody watching this
and post it on social media and post it on Instagram.
And you know what that's gonna do?

(56:56):
That's gonna let the world know
that we haven't forgotten them.
And now that Sinwar is gone, now's the time.
Now's the time to get them home.
And I think hopefully this project
will put some light back on that.
Amazing.
I just have to make one quick note about the press
because again, for those of us who have sort of been
in this fight for decades, just know this is not new.

(57:19):
This has happened to every single conflict.
It is the Hamas playbook every single time,
which is to draw atrocities so that they can play it.
And the same media outlets that are anti-Israel now
have actually always been.
I also do wanna note that one notable video was,

(57:40):
I don't think it was Broadway Cares,
but a big, big group of Broadway performers
did get together to perform what's called
Bring Him Home from Les Mis.
And that was, I don't know what happened
to any of those people since then,
but your very early question of like,

(58:01):
what kind of world do you want?
And I think that you've been asking this for decades.
And I think people are very, very confused
if they think that multiculturalism means Sharia law.
That is not the kind of world
that anyone should want right now.
I know we're closing on an hour.

(58:22):
I could talk forever.
It's up to you, but I assume,
especially cause you woke up with COVID this morning,
that I should respect your time a little bit.
So can I get into two more quick things?
Of course, let's do it.
Okay, two more.
I wanna talk about Superman,
because it, not just because it's honestly

(58:45):
one of my all time favorite song,
which I've said like 10 times now,
but I'd love to tie it into this conversation as well,
because one of like the most haunting
and crushing lyrics is the opening
in repeated verse, I can't stand to fly.
I'm not that naive.
Now, this commentary is actually very relevant

(59:05):
to the Jewish experience,
because there are a lot of people out there
who say that the actual roots of antisemitism,
the world's oldest hatred,
stem from the Torah naming the Jews
as the quote unquote chosen people.
We didn't name ourselves,
this is the Judeo-Christian Bible that says this.
Many scholars have like lamented this label

(59:27):
as sometimes more of a curse than a blessing,
is it basically just like painted a target
right on our backs.
In fact, the word for hate in Hebrew,
Sinai sounds eerily similar to the word Sinai,
right, the mountain where the Jews were given the Torah.
Can you talk a little bit about this concept,

(59:49):
or as much as you want to, but I know time-wise,
about your concept of this like vulnerable superhero,
because it's just such a profound statement.
Yeah, I think if I would have known
how many Superman songs there were,
before I wrote my Superman song,
I probably never would have done it.
But as you mentioned,
what's the difference between my Superman song

(01:00:10):
and all the others?
Superman doesn't want to fly.
They're building.
Who wouldn't want to fly?
I'd want to fly.
And why doesn't he want to fly?
Sometimes it's hard to be Superman.
Sometimes it's hard to be everything for everybody,
because if you're everything for everybody,
there's nothing left for yourself.
And sometimes that's hard for us to live.

(01:00:31):
We can talk it, but it's hard to live.
And I think especially for people who are kind of
always under siege, where it's mentally or physically,
it's so exhausting and you look to take care
of everyone around you and the world around you,
but you forget to take care of yourself first.
And I think that's why so many people
still relate to Superman, whatever age you are.

(01:00:53):
It is not easy to be us, especially these days.
But we have to take care of ourselves
so we can take care of others.
I'm sometimes not very good at that,
but I think the vulnerability of my Superman song,
the innate humanity is we're never perfect.
We can't be everything for everyone.

(01:01:13):
We do the best we can.
I think that's why it still resonates.
And when I wrote it, I was this young kid
hitting the wall of the music industry.
It's not easy to be me.
And I couldn't write it now,
because it's pretty easy to be me, frankly.
But back then you understand,
and you understand we all have those kind of feelings.
And particularly now, I'll tell you,

(01:01:35):
when I played the concert for New York Superman,
I never thought I'd never have experienced like that again.
Playing the song for 20,000 people
just went through this horrific atrocity
and lost loved ones and then digging down to ground zero
and seeing them have a release through this song,
being able to sing and cry for the first time since 9-11.

(01:01:57):
But playing that song at Hoshin Square
was almost the same experience for me.
Playing that song to see people 10 feet in front of me,
holding posters of their loved ones hostage,
seeing how music can, I'm not sure you give them solace,
but you let them know they're not alone.
And you let them know that there are people with them

(01:02:18):
in their pain and their suffering
and their grieving and their mission.
So nothing can do that better than music.
So ironically, Superman,
20 years after the concert for New York,
playing at Hoshin Square in a way
was kind of a full circle for that song.
And I will be playing it,
in November 10th, we're doing this big rally in DC.

(01:02:40):
I'll be playing all these songs there.
I'll play it at Cornell, not just for the Jewish kids.
I play for the kids who've been indoctrinated.
They're in a cult, we need to save them too.
We need to save them.
So the song really applies to all of us.
Yeah, and there's also something to be sad from when,

(01:03:02):
and he just wants to fall on his knees and cry sometimes
that there's that indomitable spirit of
your soul being broken,
but rising from the ashes even stronger.
And sometimes it's the most horrific
in challenging experiences that we have in life
that bring us to our highest and greatest heights.

(01:03:23):
And I think we're witnessing that right now.
So I always like to end on a positive note.
So here's the good news.
And I think you've actually been really good
this whole conversation about the positive notes.
But last night, I went back to the okay video
and watched it 5,000 more times.
And I think for the first time,

(01:03:45):
I got sort of the guts to read the comments.
Now, let me frame this as I've done anti-Semitism
episodes with Shai Davide, with David Bernstein,
with David Wolpe, Rabbi David Wolpe,
with Shavas Kastenbaum,

(01:04:05):
and then legal things and war things.
And they just get filled with the most hateful, horrific.
I have to just delete them.
Just the comments are horrific.
And I'm like, this anthem is just such a pay-in
to humanity and kindness.
And I really didn't want to read the comments.

(01:04:28):
But last night, I forced myself to.
And I have to say that after scrolling through
about 500 comments in your okay video,
every single one, every single one was a message of thanks
and gratitude to you for your moral clarity,
which was amazing.
Because ultimately, as you've also mentioned,

(01:04:49):
what we have to remember is that no matter how loud
the voices of evil are,
most of the world still stands with Israel.
Most of the world still stands against terror.
Most of the world still recognizes the stark difference
between good and evil.
Now we just need most of the world to speak up or sing out.

(01:05:12):
Is there anything that you would like to add, John?
Your voice is so important and it's just so clear
and in moving.
No, I mean, we talked about, you know,
if you have a kid at college and they're being assaulted
or intimidated, there's resources for that, you know?

(01:05:32):
So reach out to Sean or reach out to you, reach out to me.
You know, people can always find me on Instagram
and, you know, Five for Fighting Music
and John Androsik on Twitter.
You know, I talk to students every day.
So, you know, don't be afraid to use the people around you
to help you.
And thank you for your voice, you know?
I'm not very good at yoga,
though I do have one great pose for you.

(01:05:54):
You can, especially with your male clients,
it's called Dead Dog, okay?
And you practice Dead Dog with a remote control,
a couch and Monday night football.
So I think everybody will enjoy that.
That's not called the yoga potato?
Yes, I'm into it.
I'm an expert at that.
I'm in LA right in Brentwood.

(01:06:14):
If you want free yoga, I'm here to tell you
that not that you can't afford yoga,
but not everybody's so excited about yoga
and free is just about the right price.
I would be honored and thrilled to be able to teach you
and your wife and anyone who else who wanted to join in.
So I'm sure you're gonna take me on that offer.

(01:06:35):
John?
My daughter's a huge yoga person.
She's trying to get her 200 hours.
So we have a potential, you know, ally of yours.
And I need it, man.
I know I need it.
So yeah, just do it, just do it.
So maybe we'll book a yoga and a music session.

(01:06:56):
Oh my goodness.
We can sing a duet.
Wait till you hear my voice.
Wait till you see my yoga.
John, this has been an absolute
and a pure pleasure and enlightenment.
And just because you've been one of my musical heroes
my entire adult life, just a thrill.

(01:07:17):
Thank you so much.
I know you woke up with COVID this morning.
I'm like, there's no way he's showing up
and there you were.
You also, I was told a half hour
we've gone a little bit over.
Here you are.
I just, I appreciate you so much.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
Look forward to our next time.

(01:07:39):
I look forward to the next time too.
Thank you, Shana.

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John Ondrasik Five For Fighting | Ethics & Allies | Israel-Hamas War | Conversation w/Shana Meyerson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}John Ondrasik Five For Fighting | Ethics & Allies | Israel-Hamas War | Conversation w/Shana Meyerson