Ep 169: Learn To Weave Your Offer Into Every Story You Tell And Sell More With Less Effort

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:33):
This is Sarah Blah Block, a podcast that helps B2B
service businesses do more withless.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter?
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tiny marketing.

(00:56):
This week I am sharing a MerryChristmas episode.
It is actually, okay, so Ididn't know this before, but
Spotify for Podcasts, which isnow called Creator for Podcasts.
Thank you, Melissa, for lettingme know they changed their name.
Um, they make a podcasterwrapped.

(01:18):
So I learned that on Spotify,one, I made it into over 100
people's Spotify wrapped lists,which is freaking awesome.
But two, the biggest episode onSpotify has been this one.
It's Kundal Cherry sharing howstories can help you sell.

(01:38):
So that's the episode I amsharing as a replay for
Christmas week.
And I just want to say thank youto all of you who come and hang
out with me every single Sunday.
And I love you.
I appreciate you.
And like it blows my mind thatyou bring me into your world

(01:59):
every week and listen to mechit-chat about marketing and
sales and biz dev and offers.
I so, so appreciate you.
And I hope you have an amazing2026.
Enjoy Kendall Cherry's episodeon stories that sell for you.

(02:20):
Today I have Kendall Cherrytalking about how you can create
stories that sell for you.
Today we're talking about how tosell in every story that we
tell.
So we're on a little sellingbinge right now.
Today, I want you to really digin and understand how every

(02:42):
piece of content should sell foryou.
You should be able to tie inyour offer to whatever story
you're telling.
And another takeaway that Ithink that you're gonna get from
this is the importance ofattraction and repelling.

(03:02):
So a lot of us come from thisstate of mind where it's really
difficult when someone doesn'tlike us.
But when you own a business, Imean, when you're human in
general, not everyone's gonnalike you.
You're just you're a person likethe rest of us, and not
everyone's gonna vibe with you,and not everyone vibes with me
for sure.

(03:22):
Just look in my comments.
But the thing is, intentionallyattracting and repelling by
using your transformationalpromises, your messaging, your
stories, who you work with inthe right way, you're gonna pull
in the right people and repelthose red flags right from your

(03:45):
content.
And then last, I really want youto understand how a
well-designed sales ecosystemeliminates the needs for sales
calls.
So by the end of this episode,you're gonna understand how to
sell without having to hop on acall beforehand.
So I hope you enjoyed.

(04:05):
And if you did, once you're donewith this episode, it's a long
one, by the way.
Kendall and I really vibed.
Um, tell me in the comments.
Wherever you're listening orwatching this, there are
comments there.
So let me know what you learnedfrom this.
All right.
Enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 (04:21):
Hey, so I am Kendall Cherry.
I am the founder and executiveghostwriter here at the Candid
Collective.
And we're on a mission to createa world that's more candid and
kind.
So most of my clients and justpeople on the internet, they're
always asking me, like, whatdoes a ghostwriter do?
And I think the marketing worldis changing a lot the more you
know we see things transformwith AI.

(04:44):
But to me, ghostwriting is kindof this sweet spot of writing
copy, writing content.
But to me, in kind of the modernworld, ghostwriting is really
about sales skills and how towrite content that closes B2B
sales, especially if you'resomewhere like LinkedIn.
And so that is kind of myspecial sauce when it comes to
the writing, where it's kind ofthis fun, you know, it's

(05:05):
subliminal.
It's like, is she selling?
Is she not?
But you would never do this.
But I have this, I have thispersonal rule where I'm like,
every post has to be selling,even if it doesn't sound like
I'm selling.

SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Me too.
It's so rare.
Yes.
I figured it is so rare that Imeet people who agree with that.
Why would you write anythingthat doesn't at least like nod
to your offer?

SPEAKER_00 (05:29):
Let's go, let's go there.
Let's go there.
I think, oh, I don't know.
I have so many like hot takes onthis, but let's hear all of your
hot takes.
Let's hear all of them.
I just hear, man, we should comeand swinging right out the gate,
the Kendall Cherry way.
I just think that a lot of timespeople right now, especially in
the like creator economy, is solike the sexy buzzword and you

(05:49):
know, building an audience andmonetizing and all these things
and monetizing content, which isgreat.
But I think that when we'rewriting content, all of these
courses that people buy from bigname creators, they're always
talking about the writing.
Not once have I ever seen acourse that's like, these are
the sales skills that you needto have in your writing in order
to close sales for content thatconverts.

(06:12):
It's there, they doesn't exist.
It's not right.
You're right.
And I just I see all thesepeople that are like, yeah, you
know, I'm showing up, I'mwriting, and I swear this is
like a real example because I II get like really fiery on
LinkedIn because I I know theimplications if you're not
selling your business, can'tstay in business, and that's
just the cold hard truth.

(06:32):
And I just remember looking inDecember, I was scrolling and
someone was like, on LinkedIn,they posted a selfie with a car
seat which a with a bunch ofCheerios in their back seat, and
they were like, This is whatthese Cheerios taught me about
B2B sales, and I'm like, Oh,what what are we doing here?
What are we doing here?
And so it's it's there's so manythings to unpack, but it's I I

(06:55):
think they're I don't know, it'slike digital marketers a lot of
times, you know, we're sofocused on the content, but like
marketing is really and trulylike it's a signal, but sales is
the message, that's that's thewording that goes out.
And I think so many people areafraid to sell, or there's
there's much to unpack there,but that's my first, my first
hot take is I don't know, createare creator courses teaching you

(07:18):
how to sell or are they teachingyou how to write?
I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
Uh they're teaching you how to write, absolutely.
Because I as like my formaleducation is in writing and
marketing.
Yep.
And I've only ever learned howto write, and it just came
through being a marketer andonly actually scratch that

(07:40):
because I was in marketing forlike 10 or maybe 15 years before
I started my business, andselling wasn't even really on my
radar until I had to sell for myown business.
And I was like, well, I reallyneed to figure out how to do
this.
And that's when I was like, Idon't have time to separate
these worlds, it needs toconnect.

(08:02):
And that is the only out ofnecessity, is the only reason
that I realized I should alwaysbe selling.
Every piece of content shouldlead to an offer.
Yeah, let's talk about thatselling, that subliminal
selling, because I like that youtalked about that.
I always talk about like subtleselling, nod to selling, soft
selling.
And it's really just likeweaving in your offers into

(08:26):
stories.
Can you tell me how you do thatand how other people can emulate
it?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:31):
So I have a few like story frameworks that I really
like to lean on, which spoileralert, they're rooted rooted in
sales, not in writing.
Um, but there's a few storiesthat I think work really, really
well.
The biggest one that I see thatthere's a lot of like
subconscious like discomfortbecause I think a lot of times

(08:51):
it's it's different.
I I get a lot of clients that Iwork with where they're like, I
used to work, you know, decadesin tech sales or whatever else.
They understand sales.
They understand, like to own abusiness that runs on sales, you
have to sell.
Like they get the basics.
Yeah.
And then there's like a weirdthing that happens when you're
like, but I have to sell myself.
And I have to like read aboutmyself.

(09:14):
And you're like, wait, no, no,no, no.
And it goes against everything,you know, that we're taught.
I will say I also write forprobably 95% minority business
owners, so women, people ofcolor, LGBTQ, or some kind of
intersectional.
This is like one of the biggestbehaviors I see is this like
fear of visibility, fear ofaccepting money, wanting to do

(09:37):
good, authenticity and integrityare some of the biggest values
that my customers tend to have.
And so there's this big, like, Idon't know, it's like this big
moral battle, honestly,internally, of like, well, if I
make money, am I a bad person?
And it's like, no, you're youcan you can use money as a tool
for many, many, many things.

(09:57):
But I think the one story thatpeople get wrong, and it it's
it's hitting right on the like,am I gonna brag?
Am I I've got to be humble?
It is, I call it a money-makingtestimonial, but it's basically
your client case study.
It's this is the client and thetransformation.
This is the before and after,this is what happened, this is

(10:18):
how I saw the problem and how Isolved it.
And ew, the part everyone hates.
What are the results?
It might look like it might looklike revenue wins, it might look
like time saved or you know,other areas of a UVP, but it's

(11:32):
those stories that people wantto see mirrored before they're
gonna invest in you, especiallyif you're selling anything
remotely high ticket.
So that one, I it's like I seepeople on LinkedIn and they're
like, five stars, photo of theclient, copy paste testimonial.
And I'm like, you're making thecustomer do so much work trying
to interpret the value versusyou just telling them the

(11:53):
transformation.
So yeah, that's usually the theone I see the most.
Anytime I see the five goldstars on LinkedIn, I'm like, oh
God, like what are we what arewe doing here?

SPEAKER_01 (12:03):
Yeah, no, I'm with you.
So the topic that you had calledout was the top five selling
story frameworks.
Yeah.
And I have used this one thatyou're talking about, and you're
right.
And it's actually worked on me.
I started using it because I waslike, oh damn.
It's bottom of the funnel sales,baby.

SPEAKER_00 (12:24):
It's bottom of the funnel.
I can track because I I do itnow like clockwork.
I I have a rule every two weeks,it's going on LinkedIn.
Once a month, it's going to myemail list.
I can track when I send one ofthose.
We've got inquiries comingthrough.
Like it's almost, almost likeclockwork because it's it's the
bottom of the funnel selling,but you have to kind of like

(12:46):
face your own demons and yourown fears of like, uh, but I,
you know, I don't want to be tooraggy.
And I sometimes hear people too,they'll say, like, you know, I I
don't want to use my client'sstory, or it has to be
anonymous.
Most of the clients I tell thestory about, they're like,
please tell this story.
This is crazy.
You made me like a ton of money.
Like, I want you to, I want youto tell my story, or they win

(13:08):
time back, or they win time withtheir kids.
Like, I don't know, those arethe things most people are
actually really excited that yougot to partner with them.
But there's this like weird,again, it's it's kind of, I
don't know if it's a confidencething or a visibility thing, but
it's one of the most importantparts of of the storytelling
that I think we need to besharing.

SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
Yeah, yeah.
I get where they're coming from.
I feel uncomfortable likecalling out specific clients.
I'll usually change their namewhen I'm telling the story.
So I don't, I don't want themfeeling like I'm monetizing
their experience.
And maybe that's just like justask their permission.

SPEAKER_00 (13:48):
Yeah, just say, hey, can I can I write this story
about you?
That's a that's the biggestthing I've learned is like
anytime because I used to havepeople like screenshotting,
like, holy shit.
And they'd share stuff and belike, can I can I share this
with like the context?
And I think that's the the bigthing is we live in this like
very um, I'll say like highlightreal world.
We don't know if you know, is itall-time revenue?

(14:10):
Is it like some numbers youinflated?
There's the really yeah, and sowhen it's and so it's this
again, it's kind of the sphereof like, well, I want to be in
integrity, so I'm not gonna doit at all.
That's that's not the answer.
So I always say, like, you know,ask for permission if you really
feel uncomfortable, like send itto your client to approve before
it goes out, and then add it toyour library.

(14:30):
It's to me, it's worth theinvestment to have like have it
written, have it approved bysomeone if that's something that
makes you uncomfortable.
But the visibility is so muchmore important because it's it's
not just about like how muchmoney you could make, but if you
do deeply transformational work,which we all do, like those
those are other clients that youcould be helping.
Yeah, if you can, if you'recomfortable with getting the

(14:53):
story out there.
The money is just like the extraon top.

SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
Yeah, yeah.
And I want to add like callingout their niche or like who they
are in that post helps a lottoo, because then other people
that are within that niche orthat role can be like, oh, oh,
that's me.

SPEAKER_00 (15:13):
That could be me.
Totally.
Yeah, people, I think a lot oftimes your customers, like
sometimes, especially withhigher ticket stuff, sometimes
they just need permission thatit's okay for them to invest in
you.
Even if it's like number ofyears in business, whatever
levels of nuance you caninclude, background, you know,
this is why the before pictureis so important, not just the

(15:36):
after, but like really paintingthe picture so it's you know
universal enough.
People really like, if if I'mgonna invest a lot of money,
like I want to know that it'sI'm gonna get the outcome that I
want.
And I also want to see itinterpreted in more than just a
sales page.
I don't want to just be like,okay, pain point one, two,
three, four, five.
Like, I want to see this, thestory, the richness, the nuance

(15:58):
to understand, like, like paintme a picture.
What does this actually looklike?
Vision cast for me.
Like, is this even somethingthat I want?
Or would there be anotherprovider that could maybe, you
know, do something a little bitdifferent that I'm looking for?
But like you win all the wayaround, whether it's qualifying
leads, disqualifying leads,attracting repelling, it it kind

(16:18):
of serves every function in themarketing department.

SPEAKER_01 (16:22):
Yeah.
People underestimate the valueof repelling because you're on a
lot less sales calls that gonowhere.

SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Well my gosh.
Yeah.
So I don't even like really geton sales calls very much
anymore.
It is pretty rare for me becausemy content and the ecosystem is
kind of selling for me all thetime.
So whether it's on LinkedIn orthe emails that we have, my
services guide, I've got thisreally great ecosystem where I I
don't, first off, I don't haveto get on sales calls.

(16:51):
And pretty much any inquirythat's coming through, I'm like,
yep, I can help them.
I can help them.
I I don't, I typically don'teven really reject people at
this point.
And and if I do, it's someonewhere I'm like, okay, you're not
quite where I need you to be, goread this book.
And then we'll be ready.
But it's it's the repellingthing, it's like, I don't want
to use my energy like repellingpeople because I do want to

(17:14):
help, but I I just need you tobe in a certain either like
mental space or like level ofbusiness comfort.
Your offer has to be at acertain place.
Um, or if you're gonna hire meto fix it, know that it's gonna
be an investment.
But um, yeah, the rep therepelling is such a huge, it's
definitely one of one of thebetter revenue generating like

(17:36):
areas if you can can it kind ofamp that up in your your content
as well.

SPEAKER_01 (17:41):
Yeah, and I think that it probably flips people on
their head.
They're like, wait, telling likedescribing who you don't want to
work with, like pushing peopleaway is is helping you sell, and
it really, it really does, andyou waste so much less time.
I'm curious though about yoursales process because you have a

(18:02):
service, and it's not alwayseasy to sell a service without a
sales call.
So, do you have an applicationprocess?

SPEAKER_00 (18:10):
No, not really.
So I pretty much my inquiry formis my application.
So it is, it is at this point.
It I I think for me a few yearsago, I I was kind of in this
place where I was getting, youknow, qualified and disqualified
leads.
And I I needed a way because Ijust, you know, I was sitting on
the sales calls and I was like,well, we're having the same

(18:31):
conversation.
Like this is just I, you know,not that I don't love my
clients, but that's that's timethat I could be writing for
them.
And so um for me, the the kindof sales process really looks
like you know, lead gen fromwhatever source.
So that could be usuallyLinkedIn.
That's kind of the only placeI'm doing any kind of marketing
right now.
So someone gets into my ether,whichever way.

(18:53):
Most of the time, people end upon my email list.
Uh I have an email newslettercalled Wallflower Fridays.
I go more into the specifics of,you know, how to tell stories
that sell, but I do thatnewsletter on Fridays and then
on Mondays I send a sales email.
That spoiler alert, it's from acontent library.
It's not, I'm not writing itfresh every week.
It's it's it's a six-monthcontent library that runs back.

(19:14):
And um, I have a service guidewhere I don't post my pricing
anywhere online.
So a lot of times people arekind of looking for what it is
that I do.
The content's already kind ofI'll say customer
acquisition-wise, like peopleare if they're downloading the
services guide, like they'reprobably 90% sold already on
wanting to work with inparticular.
And so that's where they get,you know, here's my process,

(19:37):
here's the pricing, here's allthe things, here's how the wait
list works, you know, here's theform if and when you're ready.
And then the inquiry form is theapplication, you know, but it's
it's pretty in-depth.
Someone told me once last year,I was like, ooh, I'm sorry, but
that's why I know you're gonnawant to work with me.
And he was like, This took melike an hour to put the fill.

(19:58):
I don't know why.
But it it kind of does weed out,like either someone's gonna take
the time to fill it out, and I'mgonna get a lot of great data
and know exactly what they needand what the problems are, and I
can diagnose it in you know,seconds after saying kind of
what's going on.
But it's also this really greatway for someone to do their own
self-reflection process to wherewhen I send a proposal out,

(20:21):
because I don't get on a phonecall, I just pretty much say, if
they're aligned, which theymostly are, here's what I think
you need, here's a videoproposal that takes the place of
a you know sales call.
Me just saying, like, this iswhat I think you need, don't
need, this is what I would do ifit were me.
I usually ask for the budgetlike explicitly and work with
them to see what makes the mostsense.

(20:41):
But it's not, it's not, I I justhated like even the idea of
sales calls where I'd be like,oh my gosh, if I have one at 2
p.m., like my whole day is likewaiting around for the sales
call.
Yeah.
And especially as a writer, likeit's really hard to get into the
like creative kind of mode droneyou need to be in.
Start, start and stop.
It doesn't really work that thatway for me.

(21:02):
I need like a full day of likeairplane mode to really get into
it.
And so I just I just startedseeing like, okay, what are some
places and some stoppers?
Like, I'm having the same, youknow, questions usually on sales
calls.
Let me add a bunch of FAQs to myservices guide.
You know, I want people to getonto the email list and get to
know me a little bit more.
I don't normally like to workwith people that aren't at least

(21:24):
a bit little bit familiar withlike who I am and what I do.
I want someone that likerespects what I'm doing, which
is not just the storytelling andthe sales.
But it's my writing is usually alot more nuanced.
It's usually I've got, you know,three kind of sub-markets that
I'm writing for all at once.
And so I want someone that kindof also appreciates the craft a
lot as well.

(21:45):
I get people that are like, oneof my clients was like, How come
every single email you'rewriting is making me cry?
And I'm like, I wrote it, Iwrote it that way.
I wrote it that wayintentionally because that for
the kind of people that she'swanting to work with, like that
works really well as kind of acoach and a consultant.
And so it's it's getting peoplethat really respect what I'm

(22:09):
doing and the storytelling andthe sales, but like appreciating
the craft as much as well asbecause I want to work with
people that get what I'm whatI'm really doing over here.
And so um more more repellingand you know, just creating more
resonance wherever you can.

SPEAKER_01 (22:24):
No, that makes sense.
So your sales process is builtto attract and repel throughout
the entire thing.
So you have to do less of themanual selling.

SPEAKER_00 (22:35):
Yeah, I don't do I'm very anti-cold pitch.
I do not do any of that.
Um very much like you know,organic lead gen.
And I and I just trust I've hadclients who are like completely
broke and like knew that theycouldn't afford to pay me.
And then what do you know?
They have like a big splashylaunch or like something finally

(22:56):
kind of works, and then all of asudden they've got budget to
work with me.
So online business changes sofast that I I want to attract
people, you know, whether youget a huge windfall or whatever
else.
Like uh I just want to work withpeople that they they know that
I'm the right fit, whetherthey're they're ready to invest
like right this second, or Ithink the longest person, I call

(23:18):
it a longtime lurker.
So someone who's been in been inthe audience, they're not really
like liking anything becausethey, you know, if you like or
comment, they think they'regonna get in this like like
shitty sales process.
Um, so they're very they theylurk, but they don't let me know
that they're around until it'stime.
But my longest longtime lurkerwas like they were in my
audience for nine years, whichlegit, that is law.

(23:40):
Legit one, like let's flash backto where I was nine years ago.
I was in college, I was anintern.
Like, I didn't think it was alittle baby.
I wouldn't even know.
I was like a social mediamanager before it was like cool.
And it was someone that theyjust followed my LinkedIn story,
they'd seen like the good, bad,and the truly atrocious of

(24:02):
really shit like selling.
But when it came time for themto need what I was doing, um,
yeah, she she reached out, likeshe she'd seen it all.
I mean, you pretty much poorbaby Kindle didn't know I don't
know anything about sales.
I didn't go to school foranything sales related.
Like I didn't learn, I didn'tlearn until probably a couple

(24:24):
years ago really how it works.
So she she really saw me.
And the trade the transfer.
And she loved me.
And then when she knew sheneeded a ghostwriter, she was
like, I'm working with you, I'mpaying in full, like, let's do
this thing.
And I was like, like, I couldhave, I'm sorry, I could have
just never, I could have neverpredicted something like that

(24:46):
would happen.
And that's that's the thing withsales, is like if you're open
enough and like open forbusiness enough, that's kind of
what I always envision is likeevery morning I just hang on
open for business side mentally,and I kind of just see what
happens.
And my my funnest clientstories, like the the weird
synchronicities, like theyalways happen when I'm more open
and I'm out of the spreadsheettrying to like reverse

(25:09):
engineering everything.

SPEAKER_01 (25:11):
Yeah, yeah.
I I love that, and I I've seenthat myself too.
And the longer that they'relurking, the more excited they
are to work with you becauseit's the best.
Yeah, they're secretly friendswith you.
It's like podcasts that youlisten to where you're like, I
feel like I know you.

SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Oh my god.
Yeah, I I had another longtimelurker.
It's actually the girl, I thinkthe best like little messaging
quips.
Like, I'm I'm a good writer, butlike I don't come up with them.
It's stuff like this.
Is this girl actually?
She in her inquiry form had saidlike longtime lurker, first time
caller.
And I was like, I'm stealingthat.
That's really good.
But we had so we had a adiscovery call for this project

(25:53):
she needed help with.
And if you didn't know, my brandmarker is a sunflower, and
you'll see them all over theplace.
My LinkedIn profile is made likejumping with freaking hair in
the air and you know, flowerseverywhere.
Um, that was a poem.
But um, so on our projectkickoff call, she like wore her
flowers, and I was like,Allison, did you wear those for
me?

(26:13):
And she was like, Yeah, Icouldn't buy you flowers, so I
figured I'd wear them.
And I was like, That's cute.
Like, so sweet.
Like that's weird person.
Yeah, well, and it's so genuinetoo.
And I I think that's the thing,like we can get that can get
lost a little bit in the onlineworld, especially there's a very
toxic side and like capitalisticside to kind of you know making

(26:33):
money on the internet.
And I think people forget, like,there's all those little magical
moments that like that canhappen, but it's never for me at
least, it's never happened whenI was like worrying about money,
knee deep in my spreadsheet,stressed to the max.
Like it usually happened when Iwas open, I was like enjoying
myself, I was having fun, andthen it's like the universe just
drops in again.

(26:54):
Yeah, buy you a bouquet, so shewears one for you.
It's it's too good.
It's too good.

SPEAKER_01 (26:59):
It I want to touch on that for a bit because your
mental state has a huge impacton how you sell.
At least that's my experiencewhen I'm relaxed and I'm like,
it's all gonna be fine.
It is all fine.

SPEAKER_00 (27:15):
It works out, it always works, may not feel like
it in the middle, like in themiddle.
I have been through thedarkness, but it it always it
always, it always works out, andit's every time I'm always like,
shit, that was better than likeeven if I would have come up
with that.
Like I'm all the time where I'mlike, I'm a writer, and like

(27:36):
some of the shit that happened,like I couldn't even write this.
Like, it's better if I don'tworry about it, because then I
get some crazy synchronicity orsomething else.
So it's the unit is like, hereyou go.
You know, here's a really greatfun story, but it's it's so hard
in the moment because we get, Imean, there's so many reasons,
right?
There's so much pressure.

(27:57):
I know I feel like this onLinkedIn, and I feel like I have
a pretty solid like mindset andheadspace when I'm like, should
I be wanting to make more money?
Should I have a two milliondollar business already?
Like, why am I behind?
I'm not I'm not doing that.
Like, I I I know what I'm hereto do, I know what I'm wanting
to do, and I'm really groundedin that.
But it's it's really easy when alot of people's marketing

(28:20):
platforms can have a tendency tolean, you know, shame-based
scarcity lack mentality.
It can definitely, I mean, eventhe strongest mental people I
think can can still fall, youknow, victim to that or or feel
influenced by it when a lot ofthe times too, some of the stuff
they're posting isn't even true.
But uh a lot of it, it's likewhen did this spreadsheet or

(28:43):
like when this screenshotactually get taken?
Like, come on.

SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
Yes, or they're only telling you a little piece of
the story, so it looks so goodand shiny, but in reality,
they're in dead up to theireyeballs.
Totally, totally.
So we talked about one storytelling framework.
Um, we talked about our clientstories.

(29:07):
So let's get into the next one.
How else can we sell throughstories?

SPEAKER_00 (29:12):
Yeah, so the the next two, I'll say they kind of
they kind of pair up together.
This one is classic marketing.
We love to talk about painpoints and success factors.
I think a lot of people feelreally intimidated by talking
about pain points.
And they don't know.
I know for me that was a hardthing at first where I was like,
I'm not gonna capitalize onsomeone's pain points, but like

(29:33):
to provide a solution, you mustshare what the problem is.
Yeah, kind of that's justduality.
That's just all that is.
And so the thing with painpoints that I found is a lot
easier, they kind of go togetheris painting a picture of a day
in the life.
So you could do this.
Um, you don't necessarily needto like use a fake name or
anything, but just take someonethrough, like, you know, if it's

(29:57):
painful right now, like I, youknow, I bet you X, Y, Z.
Like use examples.
I find that the more specificthat you are, the more premium
the sales messaging goes.
So there's something I like totalk about.
People use like, especially inAI world, like lowest common
denominator messaging, it's thesame thing.
Like, if it's the most obviouspain point, you and your, you

(30:18):
know, 50 other competitors havealso thought of it.
So don't use that.
Like, so use more specificexamples.
And even if it feels like you'remaybe siloing people out, this
is more of a like a writingtechnique, but the more specific
you are, the more universal thestory becomes.
So even if it feels like you'rekind of pigeonholing something,

(30:40):
I find that people can tune intothe meaning of what you're
saying and apply it to your ownlife versus, you know, you you
use this big, I just picturelike the ocean of you know, the
most obvious example.
Like you should hire like hire awriter so you don't have to
write it.
And it's like, okay, but there'sthere's like other ways you
could say that.

(31:01):
Um like day day in the life, youcan do either um again, you can
do it with pain points orsuccess factors or solutions is
is a really great one.
And it's just vision casting,and it's just taking someone
through like, you know, imaginewhat it would look like if, and
and really just diving into whatthat could could be with your

(31:24):
offer or your service or yourproduct as the hero, really.

SPEAKER_01 (31:29):
That really does work.
And I've I've I've been soldthat way too, because your body
honestly feels like a littlelooser when you hear that
imagine statement.
Like, well, right, I couldimagine that.
That is what my life looks likenow.
Now take me on that journey toshow you how.

SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
Like, like, oh, someone finally gets it.
Like, I know I feel it comesfrom like, you know, doing my
best out here.
And again, the more specific youare, the the more it tends to
kind of lean into your actualexperience.
So even if it's not a hundredpercent the same, it's the okay,
well, this person works withsomeone that's kind of in my

(32:10):
same, you know, what I'm goingthrough.
So they're gonna get it.
And I think that that's soimportant for any any kind of
providing a service is reallymaking sure that the person
you're gonna invest in gets whatyou're about, or at least close
to around what you're about, Ithink.

SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
Yeah, yeah.
And like a common pain pointthat lots of people are going
through is they just don't haveenough time.

SPEAKER_00 (32:34):
It's always like when what does the time mean?
Tell me what the time means.
Exactly.
The thing I always think aboutis like, okay, time, yes, time
is important, but also the thetime represents something.
Like, yes, time is also money.
Like, that's another thing, isis time is money.
And so I think that people justneed that kind of example of

(32:58):
what the time could be used for,what could the money from the
time be used for?
Like, there's a lot of examplesthat you could go into.

SPEAKER_01 (33:05):
Yeah, connect it, like look at some of your
clients and see what they dowith their spare time so you can
connect the dots because it'svery likely, like, if you like
your clients and you want toclone them, that other people
probably also want to do thatwith their spare time.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (33:23):
Yeah, that's that's something I think people don't
do enough of either, is likethey they think about like, oh,
I gotta create original content.
I'm like, no, no, you want tofigure out a way to bottle up
your best clients, your favoritepeople to work with.
That's that's really the role ofcontent, especially if you kind
of like me, like I'm I'm purelyevergreen.
Like I have a huge contentlibrary I, you know, I've built

(33:46):
over the years and that I leanon to help support the sales.
But all of that, you're like,oh, post to support that kind of
person I want, bottle it up,bottle it up, bottle it up,
repurpose it.
So then you're only you're nothaving to write content fresh
all the time.
It's the hardest part of yourjob is lead gen and connecting
with new people and like lettingthe machine run.

(34:06):
It's not let me manually selland generate all these leads,
and I have to write my contentfresh every week.
It's like some something's gottagive.
Like, connect all of them.
Connect all of them.
I'm over here, like I'm awriter, and that's too much
writing for me.
Like, I don't want to do that.
Like it's it's just it's justworking smarter, not harder, I

(34:26):
think.

SPEAKER_01 (34:27):
Yeah, it really is.
Your sales, your marketing canconnect, and so can your lead
gen.
All of that can be connectedinto one thing that a machine.

SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
I just picture, yeah, I just picture me as like
I, you know, I stand backcrossed, cross-armed, and I'm
just watching the machine run,and I'm like doing maybe doing a
little tweaks here and here, butI'm like, evergreen baby, long
game.
Like we're we're here, we'rehere.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (34:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I completely get that.
I always refer to my leanmarketing engine because once
you get that foundation, you getthat machine running, it's just
working for you.
All you have to do is like stickwith your routine.

SPEAKER_00 (35:06):
Yeah, stay consistent.
It doesn't have to be this hot.
Like, I know it feels hot andsexy to have the like you know,
big highs, but then you alsoprobably have the the big lows.
I'm not a big fan of that.
My nervous system doesn't likeit.
So like launch style.
Oh, hell no.
Like, I it's too risky.
It's also just from a businessperspective.
It's too risky.

(35:26):
I'm sorry.
I don't want to have to closelike 80% of my sales in one
launch, and if it fails, but no,like I I have a small team.
This is like the money I use topay myself.
I just am not comfortable withthat.

SPEAKER_01 (35:41):
So no, ever evergreen all all day, every
day.
I like to do tiny launchesbecause I like the style of
them, yeah, but I'll do tinylaunches like once a month.
I'm gonna promote this thing.

SPEAKER_00 (35:55):
Oh yeah.
So yeah, for me, I'm just andit's probably the nature of what
I offer as well, which is likeretainer content for you know, a
six-month contract, maybe aproject.
Like, I don't know.
And I get so booked in advanceanyway, or I'll get like a
random inquiry where I'm like,well, that was you know, a
larger scope where like Icouldn't have predicted that.
So I I find launching has beenhard just from a like scoping

(36:18):
and capacity perspective, whereI'm like, I don't, I don't know.
Yeah, you know, I I always endup getting booked out a couple
months in advance.

SPEAKER_01 (36:24):
I'm like well, yeah.
If you have six month-longretainers, yeah, you probably
don't have to do a ton ofselling.
You probably have way moreinquiries than you actually
need.

SPEAKER_00 (36:35):
Yes, yes.
No, I ended up hiring a a writerto help me this year.
I'm also writing a book in thebackground that I'll launch
later this year.
So I've had to kind of do some,you know, hiring support and
that kind of thing.
But yeah, it just it it justwith the the longer contracts
and kind of the one-off projectsand everything, it it it doesn't
need a bunch of fuel to make thesales engine run at this at this

(36:59):
point.
But I've, you know, I've been atit, I've tested a few things
over the years too.

SPEAKER_01 (37:03):
Yeah, yeah.
In my first like three years, Iwas only doing retainers and I
barely had to sell.
It was so easy.

SPEAKER_00 (37:13):
Yeah.
It's I think there, I mean,there's something about like
retainers and also I'll sayreferral-based businesses that
it sounds sexy, like, oh yeah,my business runs on referrals.
And I'm like, I don't love that.
I feel like, and this was justkind of my story.
I felt like I kind of came ininto this business in like 2020,
2021.
And so everyone was, you know,all my peers were like, yeah,

(37:35):
I'm booked out, I'm onreferrals.
And I'm like, I don't knowwhat's going on with me, but
that just wasn't the case forme.
So I was having to learn reallyhow to sell.
Yeah, I just I just don't lovereferral-based businesses
because you don't have anycontrol over your client roster.
Yes.
Like, and the other thing islike, okay, you know, let's say
Sarah's my client.
Well, you know, Sarah toldVeronica that I'm X amount per

(37:57):
month.
So now Veronica thinks thatthat's the amount they're gonna
get.
I'm like, no, no, I want toraise my prices.
Like, I want to raise my prices,I want to work less hours.
Like, so you end up gettingtrapped.
And that that was the thing Istarted seeing with my revenue,
is where I was like, you know,I'm hitting this ceiling, and
it's partially because of thesereferrals that are coming
through.

(38:17):
Or if a referral client, youknow, drops off, or I'm waiting
on the referral gods to likesend me another referral and I
haven't learned how to sell,like I'm screwed.
I have no sales lover.
And so I didn't, I didn't lovethat.
And so I've kind of I I try tocaution some of my clients come
to me and they're like, youknow, I was a referral-based
business and then things stoppedworking.

(38:38):
And I'm like, yeah, that's likethe nature of what ends up
happening.
Like you have to get the salespart turned on, basically.

SPEAKER_01 (38:45):
Yes.
Every single member of the tinymarketing club, that that they
were running on referrals and itstopped.

SPEAKER_00 (38:55):
Yeah, this is this is how it goes.
And a lot of times, and classic,I'm I'm curious if this is what
happens, but what happened a lotof people when they have
referrals, they're like, oh, I'mfine.
I don't need to do any of mysales and marketing stuff,
disappear from LinkedIn,disappear from Instagram, and
then I can tell you the momentsomeone's client rolls off
because I'm like, oh, look atthat.

(39:16):
All of a sudden they're justlike back from the dead.
And I'm like, like, like for meas somebody that's gonna invest
in you know, any kind ofhigh-ticket service, I'm like, I
want to know that that person isconsistent and that they know
what they're doing.
And so it's actually like a hugered flag to to not be consistent
and to kind of go through theselike feast and famine in your

(39:38):
energy and consistency andshowing up in sales and
marketing, spoiler alert,mirrors the feast and famine and
your revenue.
That's yes, I like tie a bow onthat one.
That's just how it works, and sothat's why I kind of didn't want
to have any of that, I don'tknow, be behavior in the the
business anymore because it itwas hurting the sales too much.
It was it was feeling out of myown control, which I don't I

(40:00):
don't like that that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 (40:02):
Yeah, I think we might be the same person.
I'm like I was like, Larry, tellme if this sounds like you.
Sounds like me, I'll tell youthat much.
It's uncomfortable relying onother people.
And I'm the same way.
I'm always talking about how I,if I see that you're

(40:23):
inconsistent in your marketing,I believe that you'll probably
be inconsistent in how you workwith me.
It makes me trust you less.

SPEAKER_00 (40:31):
Totally, totally.
Yeah, I think I think people getso confused with there's always
like that, you know, no liketrust.
I'm like, there are certainbehaviors that people look for,
they're way more important thanlike no like trust in the
content.
And the consistency is by farthe biggest word.

SPEAKER_01 (40:47):
Yeah, I think that the trust is part of the
consistency, like it's lost.
If you say you're gonna show upweekly on a YouTube show, for
example, and you just drop offthe face of the earth.
My trust is gone.

SPEAKER_00 (41:01):
Yeah.
Or even, I mean, if you thinkabout it, I mean, especially if
you're doing any kind of like aprogram-based with a cohort,
that's a really bad red flag tokind of show off if you go
through these like high launchperiods, or also even sometimes
with like clients who run ads,they're like, Oh, it's cool.
I don't need to email my listanymore.
Like, we burned the the leadsthat we had.

(41:22):
So we'll just go generate abunch of them from ads.
And I'm like, you have so manylike potential leads just
sitting there waiting.
They have the right time forthem then.
Like this couldn't be thiscouldn't be easier.
Get a six month content library.
You will thank me later.
You will thank me later.
Like it it's just it's it'sfunny the things that I think

(41:44):
people think business how itshould be, it should feel so
much sexier.
And then it's like the theboring is the thing that creates
the really bolts.

SPEAKER_01 (41:54):
There's nothing sexy about it, it's routine.
I always I call it my everydayprofit habits.
It's just like simple things Ido every day that bring in
leads.
Yep.
It's boring, but it works.

SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
It's boring, but it works.
Get in like a fancy drink in oneof your five cups on the table,
get you some good music going,drink a cup of coffee, call it a
day.
Like it's just well, yournervous system also will thank
you for how grounded you feel indoing it, versus the like, oh
shit, I need a client now.
Like, freak out, do all thethings.

(42:29):
Like that doesn't sound good.
Yeah, so it's not it's not sexy,and no one's talking about this
on the internet because we'reall making a million dollars in
a weekend or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (42:39):
It's not happening.
Yes, whenever I tell storiesabout like big sales days, I
always give them the asterisk.
Like, I was nurturing thoserelationships for months before.

SPEAKER_00 (42:55):
No, literally, literally.
You're like, oh, this big bigmonth, let me let me tell you
about my you know 35k and the 4Kthe next month.
It's because they all closed onthe same day.
Yeah, but it worked out thatway.
So don't think you're expensive.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
But good people don't I thinkpart of it is there's people
make it seem a certain way, andthen it's like, well, if they

(43:16):
did it, then I'm gonna do it.
And so that's toxic.
But then there's there's not areal like truth saying of like,
no, this is like what they'redoing.
One, you don't have to do ittoo, and it also doesn't mean
anything about you if you had aslower sales month for whatever
reason, like yeah, they happenall the time.

SPEAKER_01 (43:34):
Yeah, it's and no one's no one's talking about
those.
No, no, it's not sexy, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:40):
It's not, it's not sexy, but it's real life, and
that is I don't I don't know.
I think I I wish things could bea little bit different, and I
you know, I try my best to tobe, especially with sharing the
nuance of like this is how thishappened, but um, yeah, it's
it's interesting what peoplewill pay you to believe.
I'll say that.

SPEAKER_01 (43:58):
Yeah, I have started talking about my slow sales
months like three months later,so I can show them what like
what habits I added to fix that.
Yeah, but the that's the mostcomfortable I can get.
I can't talk about it while I'min it because I'm too deep into
it.

SPEAKER_00 (44:17):
No, it's terrible.
Well, no one wants to get kickedwhen you're down, which this is
actually a really great segueinto uh into four.
Are we in the third one or thefourth one?

SPEAKER_01 (44:27):
Um uh let's see.
Two and three you combined intoyes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
So one of them is lessons learned is is one of the
big the big ones.
So thank you for the the queueup.
But yeah, I think and and it'sthis weird thing on the
internet.
There's there's kind of twotraits.
There's the like, okay, well, ifI'm honest about like this was a
hard sales month, then no one'sgonna trust me.
I personally, the reason Ireally like sharing lessons
learned, give it some time.

(44:53):
Don't don't talk about it whenyou're in it.
Like something my coach and Italk about is like I never push
publish on an unprocessedthought.
So like make sure you've likewrapped it up, you've done the
postmortem, you know, talk talkabout it.
But you can usually trace backlike, okay, what caused this to
happen?
Um, but lessons learned, I knowfor me, especially someone that

(45:13):
you know provides high ticket,but also I write high ticket and
also I invest high ticket.
I want to know that someone hasthe business acumen to get
themselves out of a hole.
Yeah.
So high ticket sales is superinteresting because and like
premium sales messaging, it nolonger is about just getting the
like, you know, the economicalsolution.

(45:35):
These people care about that youhave nuance, that you have
range, that you've not only, youknow, made it X amount of
thousands of dollars or whateverelse, they also want to know
that you know how to navigateout of really tough spots.
That is where the actual likegold comes from.
Yeah.
With some boundaries, I willsay, with some boundaries.

(45:56):
So a lot of a lot of people willbe like, they'll ask me, like,
well, I'm supposed to be likehashtag vulnerable, right?
Like, I'm supposed to talk aboutthis like big mental breakdown I
had.
And I'm like, no, you don't haveto do that.
And it has nothing to do withyou.
It has nothing to do with yourbusiness.
That's my first thing.
Like, I'm I'll I'll say like forthis podcast, like I just went
through a very profound, likebiggest grief cycle of my entire

(46:19):
life.
Did I write about it anywhere?
Hell no.
Like, I maybe alluded to it.
I will probably not talk aboutwhat happened in any like form
of content because I have aboundary of like these are the
topics that are awful mix thatalso have nothing to do with
business anyway.
Yeah, no, those are just likethings like family, kids,

(46:40):
revenue to a certain extent.
Like there are certain thingsyou don't have to talk about in
the name of being hashtagvulnerable.
Like, and again, that I justthink about the freaking
Cheerios in the back of the car,like and you're cringing all
over again.
What are we doing?
Or even just like you know,sharing selfies and you know, a
selfie of you crying, and I'mlike, oh yuck, don't like that.

(47:04):
Like, please stop performing forthis, like it's really weird,
and it also shows you that youdon't actually know anything
about business, like it it justdoes so many things, or
vulnerability because nobodywhen they're actually feeling
that way is going to think totake a picture of themselves, it
doesn't come off as authentic atall.

(47:25):
You don't want to see me whenI've been crying, okay?
It's not cute, it's not cute,it's not cute for an algorithm,
it's not good.
But it's this thing where Ithink people just like it's it's
you want to be vulnerable, andthere ain't there is I think
people miss mistake authenticityand vulnerability so much.
Like, yeah, if I'm not I'm notvulnerable, if I don't tell you

(47:46):
all my scars or whatever, andI'm like, I don't really want to
monetize for my scars, becausethen that means I'm gonna call
in more scars.
Like, I don't really want it'skind of bad juju, you know.
I don't really yeah, I don'tknow.
I don't I don't I don't want mymarketing strategy to be let's
talk about like the shit Ishould be talking to a therapist

(48:06):
about, you know?
That's yeah, I've got her forthat.
I've got her for that, I have acoach for that, like I have all
the people resourced, not forthis purpose.
But again, it it's this thing ofI think we with the
vulnerability piece and andeverything else, it's like uh I
I want to share, you know, whatI learned or whatever else, but

(48:27):
you have to you have to rememberfrom a business perspective, I
think it is smart to talk aboutharder seasons just because
again, that shows businessacumen, which is I I know for
me, if I'm gonna hire a coach orI'm gonna hire a marketing
person, I'm like, you betterknow what to do if the plane
starts falling.
Yeah.
I wouldn't I want to know thatyou know how to fix it.

(48:49):
And I want to know that you knowhow to fix it in your own
business.
Like, because other otherwise,any anyone can say that they
know what they're doing.
That's half of LinkedIn.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Like, tell tell show me that youknow how to get yourself out of
it or like how to generaterevenue when you need it, or
prove to me that this, you know,this this works even if there's

(49:09):
a slow cycle or whatever else.

SPEAKER_01 (49:12):
The last two coaches I've had, I went with them
because they went throughperiods that I went through
periods.
And I I was like, oh, they gotthemselves out.
I want them.
Totally.

SPEAKER_00 (49:24):
Yeah.
I I've been working with mycoach for almost four years in
May, three and a half years, Iguess, at this point.
And it's for her, like a lot ofour journeys like mirror a lot
where she's kind of, you know,usually a step ahead of me.
But I because I do the innerwork, she does the inner work.
But a lot of the like strengthand the the mental performance
for sure has come from herteaching me, you know, about,

(49:48):
you know, it doesn't meananything about you if your
revenue is slow.
And and all of these lessonsthat I think pe people kind of
discount that that is animportant part of business, like
the mental performance, theability to stay on track.
Like, good God, everyone,everyone getting distracted by
all of this stuff that is notgenerating revenue, but it's

(50:08):
like the illusion that it could,versus just like do do the
simple thing.
Do the do the tiny things thatyou know, your what did you say?
The diet, the tiny oh, everydayhabits.
Everyday habits, everyday prophabits.
Yeah, everyday prop habits.
Like that was the hardest thingfor me because I I used to be a
you know a high low girl.
I I used to be like, let's ridethe roller coaster.

(50:30):
This is so fun, high octane riskand stress.
And now I'm like, that actuallywas the worst, like the worst
period of my life.
But it's I think working withlike coaches or service
providers that also like theirbusiness model and the energy,
like how they're making money,like what is what are the values
behind how they're doing this?
This another that's like asub-story type, but like

(50:53):
definitely having anunderstanding of like, well, how
how are they making money?
Like, how does this actuallywork?
I think really is helpfulbecause you can definitely work
with people who are like prolaunch, pro ads, pro all these
things, or you can kind ofconnect yourself with people
that sell in a way that feelsbetter for you and for your
nervous system.
Yeah.
There's a lot of us, there's alot of us around that have the

(51:14):
same values, but you know, we'remaybe not the loudest people on
the internet because we're doingour little things.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
Finding a coach that like you guys click on that
sales level, yeah, I think thatmatters so much.
Yeah, because then you canfigure out where it's going
wrong for you.
Like I've tried this, I knowit's gonna work, but something
needs to be tweaked.

SPEAKER_00 (51:42):
Yeah, yeah.
My my coaches specifically, so Iknow it may not seem like it.
I'm very introverted writer, butI'm very introverted.
And and her whole approach waslike, she's for introverts,
empaths, and highly sensitivepeople.
And so after working with her, Iwas like, oh my God, this is why
I hate going to the grocerystore.
Oh my god, like I didn't know.

(52:03):
Yeah, but it was like all of theenergy management stuff that she
was kind of teaching me thatlike I think some people in my
family still think I'm anextrovert, which is not true.
So it's it's very interesting,like working with someone that
the values and how they sell,like a lot of the like think
about it, okay.
If I'm an introvert and anempath and a highly sensitive
person, sales calls are like nota great energy-giving thing to

(52:26):
me.
So that's kind of how we'vebuilt my sales ecosystem to make
more sense for me, mypersonality style, but also like
the function of my business.
I'm a writer, so it's hard forme to, you know, do a couple
hours of work and then do asales call or you know, do a
podcast interview and then jumpright back in.
Like that, it doesn't make sensefor what I'm doing.
So finding a coach that canreally honor who you are and

(52:51):
what you are and how you preferto work, I think is really
important.

SPEAKER_01 (52:56):
Yeah, I really want to highlight that too.
And so many entrepreneurs orpeople who want to be an
entrepreneur feel like they haveto fit into somebody else's box.
But really, it's about findingthe systems that work for you
and your energy levels and howyou think.
And once you find that,everything will feel natural and

(53:19):
it will flow.
Yes, it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00 (53:23):
There's there's a lot of a lot of coaching that I
think with and it's definitelystill happening.
It was very, it was giving like2020, 2021 coaching industry MLM
vibes.
Yeah.
Where it was like it was like,oh, I made all this money doing
this thing.
So now I'm gonna teach you how Idid it.
And you're like, well, firstoff, I'm not extrovert extreme.
So that's like 90% of whatyou're about to teach me is

(53:45):
actually terrible.
And I I've invested in coacheslike that where it's like, cool,
I learned one way and onemarketing strategy and ecosystem
that does work.
But for someone like me, like, Idon't want to send 20 DMs and I
don't want to have a spreadsheetof like every lead ever that I'm
connected with.
Like that, the minutiae, that isjust totally draining.

(54:06):
So it's it's understanding, andI think there's there's
definitely something aboutindividual coaching, bespoke
styles where it reallyincorporates who you are, even
just the nature of yourbusiness, what you're trying to
do.
Like, I don't, I'm not trying tobe the next version of your
business.
I'm kind of just trying to buildmy own thing.
And I need support with themental stuff, the spiritual

(54:27):
stuff, the emotional, all of thelike interpersonal
client-sending boundaries, likeall of this stuff, the other
things that, you know, theday-to-day, like I'll say like
personal operations to get it,get it moving.
I, you know, I I have goodbusiness sense, but I I need
someone to hold me accountableto like, no, this is what we're

(54:48):
building.
Like, we don't need to go build,you know, an email newsletter
with 50,000 subscribers and likea shitty digital product at the
back end.
Like, that's not my thing.

SPEAKER_01 (54:57):
Yeah, yeah.
And you see somebody else who'sdoing it super successfully, and
you're like, maybe me too.

SPEAKER_00 (55:04):
Maybe, maybe me too in our own way.
And then you get distracted.
Yes.
Oh my gosh, the distract thelack of focus and distraction is
is another another thing too.
Cause it's it's it's sochallenging because you you want
to be and have the same resultsas the as other people, but
again, the nuance, they may notbe telling you the whole story,

(55:24):
they might may not you know havehad the same starting place that
you did.
Like, yeah, that's there's somuch there's just too much
that's not confirmed, trulyconfirmed.

SPEAKER_01 (55:35):
Yeah, yeah.
I constantly talk about how muchI hate when someone has a very
specific framework and you haveto go through each one of their
steps, and they're like, Well,if it's not working for you,
then you're try harder.
Where it's like, no, this isn'tfor me, it's not gonna work for

(55:57):
my personality.
I need something that fits meand the way I work.
Yeah, I just think hard,concrete ways, processes of
moving people through, like toget the same accomplishment as
you got.
They don't, it doesn't work.
It needs to be custom for theperson.

SPEAKER_00 (56:16):
Totally, totally agree.
Retweet that one for sure.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:19):
Boop, that was my retweet button.

SPEAKER_00 (56:22):
Yeah, love.

SPEAKER_01 (56:23):
Let's get to five.
What was the fifth, yeah,storytelling?

SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
The fifth one, other than the money-making
testimonials and like the clientcase studies, arguably the most
important, the one that peoplenever talk about is your origin
story.
So everyone I think, especiallyin in your your business
evolution, I know this this wastrue for me.
You know, we we tend to discountthe things that we've learned

(56:49):
over the years.
So for a really long time, Ididn't talk about how, yes, I
have a ghostwriting business.
I also flash forward to me, likemy first job out of college.
I had a very like fluke of afirst job.
I was in the C-suite of aFortune 100 company,
ghostwriting for a seniorexecutive.
I was 21, like, couldn't make itup.

(57:10):
I got all the experience in theworld at like the highest place
you could possibly beghostwriting at from a corporate
perspective.
Yeah, you lucked out.
I I like really truly fluke of afirst job.
They should never have given methat.
I was like barely a drinkingage.
But there, you know, that was ahuge part of my story and kind
of how looking back, I'm like,oh, well, I was already kind of

(57:32):
doing this.
And I was doing this at adifferent level where, you know,
I did have the kind of corporatecushion where I could experiment
more, and I got to see a wholelot, especially because we were
doing a lot of internalcommunication.
So I kind of got to see likecrash course, how does this work
at a really young age?
The other thing most peopledon't know that I talk about
sometimes, but not definitelynot as much, is I, while working

(57:54):
full-time, I had a corporatejob.
I got a master's in PR,specifically in internal and
executive communications, whichis spoiler alert, ghostwriting.

SPEAKER_01 (58:03):
Yes, exactly what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 (58:05):
That's what that is.
Yeah, PR for an executive.
That's what that is.
But I didn't think, because Ijust thought, like, okay, well,
once you're an entrepreneur, youonly earn your stripes from what
you do in this one businessconcept, and that's it.
Not realizing like my originstory, that's so important.
Like, I when I started talkingabout that, people were like,
Man, that makes me feel like 20times better hiring you because

(58:28):
you've at least seen more stuff,or like you've you know, you've
studied this, you've you'vetaken the reps in and you've
done all of this.
My coach, she has a really greatjuicy origin story because it's
this, it's the thing you can'treplicate.
No, no one else is gonna havethe story that you have.
And that's the magic.
That's that's one of the bestways to key into why you do the

(58:50):
things that you do.
But like my coach, ambitiousintrovert, empath, highly
sensitive person, she'll say,like, the reason she's so good
at her job is she was an airtraffic controller for like 10
years.
And so, and she actually tellsthis story.
She'll say that um she had thisclient that wanted to work with
her after finding out that shewas an air traffic controller.

(59:12):
And the reason this clientsigned on to work with her was
because they said, that'ssomeone's brain that I want on
my business.
Like your brain, the things thatyou're good at and the past
experience you had, like, youknow, yes, you might be a coach
or a consultant, but like thatthing, whatever that special
experience, they're either superconnected to it from a values
perspective, or they're like,you know, I don't know a lot

(59:33):
about air traffic control, butyou know, you definitely know
about complexity.
Like that, yeah.
That I think a lot of people Ithink people think, you know,
oh, I'm supposed to talk about,you know, this is why I started
my business.
It's usually because you left acorporate job or you got laid
off during the pandemic.
I still think like we know yourstory because it's all of our

(59:54):
story.
Yeah, I know.
I well, and for a while, like II when I first started, I was
like, oh yeah, I like got tiredof my corporate job.
That that was my origin storythat I used a lot.
And then I would just keptscrolling and I was like, shit,
they have the same one.
They have the same.
I was like, okay, this is thisis not gonna work.
Like, we're gonna have to findsomething else.
But that that's the the thing islike no, no one could possibly

(01:00:15):
have my origin story and the andthe combination.
There's so many differentbackstories to things as well in
different different ways, notjust from the business owner's
perspective, either, or why thebusiness got started.
It's also a really great way totalk about your offers and the
origin story of your offer.
Like, why did you create this?
Well, you probably saw a gap inthe market.
Why was this so important?

(01:00:37):
What were you noticing in yourclients that you know they were
struggling with that no one elseseemed to, you know, get get
solved?
Why did you do it in this way?
Tell me, tell me why you createdit in this way, certain
benefits, certain specs.
That origin story is again,besides kind of client
testimonials, that that is kindof the magic I think that kind

(01:00:58):
of weaves into every everybusiness and every story that
you could be telling becauseit's something that no one else
is gonna have.
It's impossible for anyone tohave the same combination as
you.
And if they do, you're notlooking hard enough.
You got to do a little more soulsoul searching because there's
definitely there's I sit allday, every day, writing origin

(01:01:20):
stories for people, and I'm justlike, dude, this is juicy.
Like, there's there's just amillion and one ways to to spin
it and and talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:29):
Yeah, there there are.
I write a lot of LinkedIn.
Profiles for my clients.
And that's one of the thingsthat I have.
And usually their experiencesection is the origin story of
what made them the person thatthey are today that launched the
thing that they're doing.
And they're so fun andinteresting.

unknown (01:01:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:51):
Well, no, origin stories are great too because
what's actually underneath them,again, those like universal
themes, the more specific weare, they resonate on a
universal level.
Origin stories are so funbecause you can tell it 20
different ways, just withdifferent stories or different
values.
And so, like I could tell you myorigin story, but I'm using it
through the lens ofauthenticity.

(01:02:11):
Maybe I'm using it through alens of rebellion.
Maybe I'm using it through alens of abundance.
Like there's there's a milliondifferent ways to tell, you
know, why you started something,why you created an offer.
And those values and the lensthat you choose to tell that
story through are the thingsthat are going to resonate with
someone.
And again, it's that specificityof someone being like, man, like

(01:02:35):
that that was really interestingto me, or that that really, you
know, I think we all kind ofhave seasonal themes or things
that we're kind of into.
And I think that is what reallyattracts people into our ether,
whether they're ready to invest,you know, today, that right this
second, or you know, they neednine years, you know, to to

(01:02:57):
finally convert, you know, wedon't we don't really ever know.
But that that's I thinksomething and it and it's also
it's an a practice in honoringyour own story and honoring
where you came from.
And that can be a like kind ofan uncomfortable thing, you
know, owning not just your winslike you would share in a client
case study, but owning like, youknow, I may not have enjoyed my

(01:03:17):
time in corporate, and you know,maybe I had some rebellion and
you know, angst as to why Ileft, but also like that shaped
a lot of what I learned and alot of what I didn't want to
bring with me into building abusiness.
So there's there's almost likethis healing process that can
happen again, a little bit moreinternally.
It doesn't mean you have to go,you know, blast your

(01:03:37):
vulnerabilities and your pastproblems.
Uh there's a a lot of healingthan and when you own all the
parts of you, that's the thingthat allows you to become whole
and kind of propel yourselfforward.

SPEAKER_01 (01:03:50):
It can also help you reframe your past if it was
something that was uncomfortableor bad at the moment.
It helps you see it through anew lens because that experience
led you to the business that youhave today.
Like my origin story is I was aone-person marketing department
for a seven company group, and Iwas overwhelmed.

(01:04:11):
I had seven presidents.
Terrible.
It was very hard, but it alsoallowed me the space to build a
framework that worked reallywell for them.
And then I was able to replicateit for other clients.
So while at the time I was like,oh my God, what did I get myself
into?
Now I'm like, thank God I did,because it I had to be scrappy

(01:04:36):
and figure out how to make itall work.

SPEAKER_00 (01:04:38):
Yeah.
But lessons learned story,that's what people want to hear.
You know, they want to hear theorigin story.
They want to hear like what youlearned about that.
And I think, yeah, the the morewe can own, you know, I really
believe in like neuroplasticity.
You know, we we have a lot oftrauma we store in our bodies.
We can re-heal it, we can rewireour brains.

(01:04:59):
And that is part of the theprocess too.
Like, I think doing a kind ofretroactive look at what you
where you came from.
Also, if you're like goingthrough a tough season, it's
also the thing that's gonna, youknow, hopefully create a little
bit of a spark and be like,okay, you know, I said I
survived what I thought wasgonna be the worst day of my
life or the worst season of mylife.

(01:05:19):
And, you know, I can see it maystill have some darkness, but
there is some light there aswell.
And I think that is kind of, Ithink that's what hope feels
like, you know, in a businessseason or, you know, after
closing something down orstopping an offer or a launch
flop or whatever else, like youit always leads to something
better.
It may not feel like it at thetime, but I think that is, you

(01:05:42):
know, I think that's what hopeand you know, maybe I'm overly
optimistic, but I think that'sthat's that kind of like inner
work of being an entrepreneurthat really needs to be taking
place to get the kind of resultsand and more alignment, you
know, going into whatever thenext era is.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:01):
It took me a long time to realize that too, when
something didn't work out, nowI'm looking at it with curiosity
instead of disappointment.
Like, what is what is the lessonthere?

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:13):
What do you think that I even just accepting right
off and like you know, move on?
I feel like I have to likereally just sit in it.
And and this is something elsethat I I I write a lot
subconsciously under the radar,if you didn't know what to look
for.
I write a lot about grief, iswhat I actually, you know, if
you were to pull back and I wereto really reveal.

(01:06:35):
Spoiler, that's what's actuallyhappening here.
I write a lot about grief and Iwrite a lot about joy and
abundance.
And I think like mostentrepreneurs, who wants to feel
grief?
Who wants to feel depressed?
Who wants to feel sad?
Like it's a it's a really crappyfeeling.
And it can feel like you can'tget yourself out of it.
But grief is also, this is likemy storyteller memoirist side

(01:06:56):
coming out, but grief is also adeath and a rebirth cycle.
So when you can grieve, youknow, the past, that is also the
thing.
Take with it what you would likeinto the next birth or rebirth.
That is the the the case foranything.
It could be an offer, it couldbe a business concept, it could
be a career change, it could bea relationship, like that that

(01:07:19):
is grief, is like death andrebirth.
And so I think that that work,it's not fun to sit with and you
can't AI prompt your way out ofit.
Like you have to actually sitfeelings, but I think that's an
important part of the thestorytelling process as well,
and kind of what adds richnessto what you're sharing.
Makes me think of tarot when youpull the death card.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:41):
Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:42):
No, for me, it's anytime I pull the tower, I'm
like, I don't want it, I don'twant it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:07:49):
So many people think that the death card is bad, but
really it's like the beginningof a new chapter.
It's a rebirth.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:55):
Totally, truly.
Yeah, and it it's it's tough tohold though.
I mean, who who wants to feellike you know something failed
or like something you know can'tcontinue?
It's it's hard to sit with, butit's you know, death and
rebirth, it's no different thanokay, it's you know, time to
clear out some spring cleaning.
You're gonna go through, get ridof the the clutter in your house

(01:08:16):
that you don't want anymore, andyou're gonna donate some of it.
Well, that creates space forsomething new, and it feels good
once it's over.
It feels good once it's over.
Yeah, once it's over.
You have to move through.
Yeah, you can be I I will say,you know, one of my one of my
quirks is I'm not the best atactually dropping this stuff off
at goodwill.
So I'll like sitting in yourtrunk.

(01:08:36):
Sitting in my trunk for a littlebit, it's fine, but it's at
least down at the apartment.
So you can't really feel it.
But um, yeah, I I think that'sit's allowing yourself to kind
of grow and evolve, and like wecan't, I hope, you know, stay
the same level all the time.
We have to to allow ourselves tokind of clear out what isn't
serving us and create space forwhatever is new.

(01:09:00):
That could be clients, thatcould be certain offers, that
could be pricing, that could bean anything.
Like nothing is off the table.
There's one thing I've learned,it's like expect the unexpected.
Yeah, evolution is inevitable.
Yeah, so grow grow or grow ordie, and dying's not an option.

(01:09:21):
So buckle up, baby.
I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, get real comfortable withchange if you're in in business.
If you're an entrepreneur, yeah,seriously.
Every week something different,but that is part of I think
there's a certain type of personthat is resilient enough to do
this for a living.
And it doesn't mean it's nottough, but um, it it's you being

(01:09:43):
resilient and strong and andable to navigate the highs and
the lows.
And that's that's what people,whether it's clients, whether
it's customers, whether it's youlooking for someone to work
with, like that those are kindof for me the big indicators
that come with the the jobdescription.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:03):
I have definitely become a stronger person because
of it.
Because when I started, it wasvery uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's it's a tough job forsure.
Like it's it's still one of theharder things I've ever had to
do in my life, but wouldn'tchange it for a day.
Wouldn't wouldn't change it.
There's some seasons where I'mlike, that was scrappy, but I
did not enjoy that.
Yeah, that was not my funnesttime, but we're still living to

(01:10:33):
tell the tale, and there's valuein that.
So, you know, live to dieanother day.
That's what I tell myself allthe time.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:38):
Yeah, yeah, it's probably like the innate
optimism that lives in all of usthat keeps us going.
Like it's bad right now, buttomorrow will be better.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:50):
Right.
It's that visionaryentrepreneur.
It'll it's it's really helpfulsometimes.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:54):
Yeah.
So can you tell the audience howthey can work with you and find
you online?

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:01):
Yeah.
So as far as working with me,um, I ghostwrite mostly content
in the storytelling format.
So most clients work with meeither on a LinkedIn content
retainer or email newsletters orboth.
So um I definitely have a, youknow, a certain kind of style.
I'm definitely a more kind ofdirect, quippy.
I kind of write like a talk.

(01:11:22):
And so most of my clients tendto be like very uh yeah, a
certain type of humor style, butit's really fun.
Um, but so LinkedIn or emailnewsletters, or if you ever have
like a one-off project in thesales department, I tend to
write a lot of email welcomeseries for email newsletters,
especially if you're trying tofigure out how to tell it in a
way that's storytelling andselling, that is another big

(01:11:43):
thing that I write for clients,or uh some sales pages or
service pages um for websites alot of times as well.
But definitely more in thecontent, you know, name of the
game and and working with myclients to build a content
library.
So filling in the gaps,especially of like what is the
the content that's out here thatwe still need to have in your

(01:12:05):
six-month library is really whatI try to get my clients to.
Um, and then as far as where tosee me online, I'm I'm on
LinkedIn, uh, pretty active overthere.
And then I write a newslettercalled Wallflower Fridays.
Similar vibe to kind of, I mean,just how I speak basically, but
it's I always try to tell somestory from my life where I pull
inspiration from like books thatI'm reading, movies that I'm

(01:12:27):
watching.
I last week, this is like soembarrassing, but last week I
sent one about Disneydescendants, which has been my
like hyperfixation, which isactually a banger of a
storytelling.
And so I kind of went into likewhy it works.
Um, but if you want to readWallflower Fridays, you can sign
up for that atWallflowerFridays.com.

SPEAKER_01 (01:12:48):
Very nice.
And now I have to go check thatout.
I have two descendants.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:54):
Oh my god, it is.
I will really and truly go off.
I'm like, I like it was supposedto be a joke.
Like my YouTube algorithm likewas really showing me this
stuff.
And then I was watching it, andI was like, oh my god, they're
like talking about I'm I'mhealing from like narcissistic
abuse right now.
And so like, oh my god, thefirst movie is like all about

(01:13:15):
healing from narcissists.
What the fuck?
Right and then the second one,it was like it knew, and then
I'm like looking at this and I'mlike, oh my god, this is like
very woke art.
What is happening?
And now I'm like, it's soembarrassing.
This is like I would normallytell my email lists not, you
know, not people on a podcast,but like, I'm re-read, I'm
reading there's like prequelbooks, I'm reading the

(01:13:35):
children's prequel books forthese Disney movies, but the the
music is great, it's directed byKenny Ortega, who did a high
school musical.
Um, I don't know.
I it's really fun and it's beenlike a really joyful experience.
And it's it's the backstory ofthe villains and the you're a
Disney's villains, so it's thekids of the villains, the
descendants, but it's fun.

(01:13:57):
I actually found that.
It's super fun, it's supernostalgic, like the values and
the themes.
Like, if you want to talk aboutuniversal themes, like I'm I'm
literally sitting here watchingthis and I'm crying, and I'm
like, oh my god, they're healingfrom narcissistic parents.
Like, holy like it's it's just Ithink really well written.
It's campy, it's hokey, likeit's fine.

(01:14:19):
The music in the second one islike we're playing it a lot
right now, you know.
I'm just listening to it a lot,but it's it's a fun, like kind
of I don't know, just it's it'sa little bit different.
It's it's kind of playful orwhatever, but yeah, you can
watch it on Disney Plusdescendants.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:35):
Well, we have it, so I'm gonna try it out.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:38):
Yeah, well tell me how it goes, because I'm like I
said, I'm reading the books,we're deep in it.
So we're we're there.

SPEAKER_01 (01:14:46):
I will, I will let you know.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
This talk was way longer than mynormal ones.
I enjoyed every bit of it.
Thank you.
All right, that was a long one,but it was a good one.
So now that this episode isover, this is what I want you to
do.

(01:15:06):
Audit your content.
Does every post that you'vecreated in the last seven days,
let's say, subtly sell?
Are you hinting or nodding orthreading your offer into the
content and the stories thatyou're telling?
Incorporate storytelling in yourmarketing, particularly around

(01:15:27):
client case studies, so peoplecan visualize themselves in the
place of your current clients.
Clarify your messaging to bothattract and repel potential
clients.
It will save you so much time onunnecessary sales calls.
Build a streamlined salesprocess that works for you.

(01:15:47):
So everybody's sales process isa little different.
You need it to work for the lifethat you have and your business
and your offers.
So build one that you actuallylove.
And last, embrace the long game,nurture leads so they become
ready to work with you.
So one way you can do that isthrough DMs, which you learned

(01:16:12):
in episode 122.
If you haven't listened to that,go back in time one week to that
one.
And another way is in the inbox.
So I recently released an emailmarketing kit that I think
you'll love.
And it shows five differentemail sequences, templates, and
their plug and play.
They show you examples on howyou can sell after a freebie or

(01:16:36):
after a client has ghosted you,or how to get more butts in
seats when you're hosting a freeevent.
So there's five email sequence,all designed to nurture your
leads and pull them through andhelp them become clients.
You love all things tinymarketing.

(01:16:59):
Head down to the show notes pageand sign up for the wait list to
join the Tiny Marketing Club,where you get to work one on one
with me with trainings,feedback, and pop up coaching
that will help you scale yourmarketing as a B2B service
business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep 169: Learn To Weave Your Offer Into Every Story You Tell And Sell More With Less Effort

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Fudd Around And Find Out

All Episodes

Ep 169: Learn To Weave Your Offer Into Every Story You Tell And Sell More With Less Effort

Stuff You Should Know