February 22, 2026 • 27 mins
We show solo consultants how to run sales calls that feel natural yet drive clear outcomes. From scoring fit without a CRM to handling budget early and locking next steps, we share simple pivots that raise conversions without chasing more leads.
• three recurring sales call mistakes and how to fix them
• four fit factors to qualify buyers fast
• simple bridge score you can run on a notepad
• use intake forms for pre-qualification
• magic pivots that make money talk easy
• build conviction by tuning offer and price
• position outcomes, not hours, to raise perceived value
• lock momentum with three next steps
• ask 11+ clarifying questions to find real pain
• reflect back pain, impact, and stakes to align
• why timing questions shape the right next step
• book: Fix Your Broken Sales Calls and how to work with Johnny
Jonny Holsten – BridgeSelling
In this episode, Jonny Holsten of BridgeSelling.com shares a smarter way to run sales conversations—without scripts, pressure, or awkward tactics. As the author of Fix Your Broken Sales Calls, Jonny teaches solopreneurs and sales teams how to close more deals by improving the structure and clarity of their calls. Instead of chasing more leads, he shows how better conversations naturally lead to better outcomes.
🔗 Connect with Jonny on LinkedIn:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyholsten/
📘 Get his book Fix Your Broken Sales Calls:
https://www.bridgeselling.com/book
Learn more at:
https://www.bridgeselling.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:34):
Welcome to Tiny Marketing Podcast.
I'm Serena Off Block.
This show is made for soloconsultants who want to get
booked out without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
fits into your life so growthfeels doable instead of
overwhelming.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
My name is Johnny.
I'm a sales trainer andstrategist from Bridge Selling.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Awesome.
That was straight to the point.
Thank you for joining me today.
And we are talking about how youcan have a better sales call.
What would you say are the threethings that people are doing
wrong on sales call?
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
The big one is just going into it with no strategy
at all, like no set game planfor how that call is going to be
run.
And because you're doing that,you don't have a game plan.
Because you don't have a gameplan, you don't have a way to
score and assess where you'reat.
And then because you don't haveeither of those two things, your
follow-up and your next stepsare usually sort of random and
(01:41):
sporadic.
And so I think those are threeof the big things.
No, no set game plan, whichmeans you're you're grading and
you're scoring your dealsdifferently from one to the
next.
And then it helps, it makes itimpossible to have momentum
moving one conversation to thenext to a closed deal.
So that's sort of three thingslumped in one that all come from
just having no game plan, havingno strategy or structure for a
(02:04):
call.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
And so most of the audience here are solo
consultants and they're smallteams.
How should they be assessing ifsomeone is a good fit or not?
Like how do they score when theydon't have maybe a CRM that
would typically be scoring?
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Yeah, well, it's super simple.
When a lot of times when peoplehear scoring or like analyzing
deals, we're thinking tech,we're thinking CRM is a good
thing.
No, yeah, this can be done on aspreadsheet.
This can be done in your brain.
This can be done on a notepad.
And the way we like to look atit is anytime you're closing a
deal, you're crossing a bridge.
(02:45):
You're getting your customerfrom one side of the bridge to
the next.
And the way we approach it isacross that bridge, there are
six different steps.
And how we score a deal iswhether or not that deal, that
buyer, how how they got throughthose six steps.
And so we part of that is whatwe call the bridge score.
And the way you should belooking at whether or not
someone's a qualified buyer, andit's different for everybody
(03:07):
because we all sell differentthings to different people, but
the four main ways to look atit.
One, do they have a problem thatyou can solve?
So the first thing we look at isdo they genuinely have the right
problem for you to solve?
The next is do they have theauthority and the budget to make
the buying decisions?
So are you talking to someone,if you're selling, especially in
(03:27):
B2B or larger B2B?
Oftentimes you won't be speakingto the decision maker.
But if you're a solopreneur andyou have smaller offers, likely
you're speaking to the decisionmaker.
So that's just something to keepin mind.
The third piece is does theirtimeline align with yours?
So do you have capacity for nowor later?
And does that line up with thebuyer?
(03:47):
And the fourth thing is how whatis the likelihood that that
buyer is going to be a ravingfan or a huge success story?
So be thinking of it in thosefour categories.
Does the does this person have aproblem you can solve?
Do they have the budget to payfull price and make that
decision?
Do they have the timeline thatworks with yours?
And will they are they likely tobe a success story?
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
So that could be easy enough done, like uh if you
have a Google Doc and you justhave a checklist on there where
every time you have a salescall, maybe you have your little
spiel on there, or at least thequestions that you want
answered, and then you can havethat checklist.
Do they hit these?
And that can be great idea toschool.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Most of those things can also be can be sussed out on
an intake form.
A lot of them can be.
So you can have a really goodidea, even coming into a call.
Does this person check thoseboxes or not?
And even in in conversation withsomeone, you can be really
honest and say, hey, as we divein, the best fit for this
program or for this offer isthis, and give them a bit of a
(04:50):
rundown, save everybody's timeby being clear like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yeah, that's such a good idea to like bring to the
forefront is allow people toself-identify in or out from the
beginning.
That makes it so much easier andsaves everybody a lot of time.
Okay.
So when I think about like weneed to score, we and so we need
(05:16):
to score, we need to find outthis information about someone.
I automatically think either wehave like a beat sheet that
we're trying to hit or atemplate or a script.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah, we you don't want to have to follow script.
You shouldn't have to followscript typically.
What I like to think of is whatwe call magic pivots.
So there are differentcheckpoints and different steps
in a sales call.
If it feels overly scripted andthe whole thing is being run by
a script, no one's gonna feelconnection.
So instead, I would focus onwhat are the parts of the call
(05:54):
that feel feel most difficult toyou?
And can you really work on somelanguage, some pivots that are
gonna help you guide theconversation in that direction
so that you don't feel tense andyou don't feel stressful?
Maybe you have a hard timeasking for the sale or asking or
talking about the finances.
Can you create some magic pivotsthat you do get rehearsed and
(06:14):
scripted within those pivots,but the rest of your call should
feel organic and the ultimateend place with any any magic
pivot or scripted language isthat it never comes across like
a script.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always find scripts or evenpitch jacks, they they all feel
like this is not my vibe.
I'm not invested in this.
I want to talk about those magicpivots.
So let's say I'm on a sales calland it's come to that point
(06:47):
where I need to figure out doyou have the budget for this
offer?
Like, is it worth moving youforward into like the next step?
But I feel awkward.
I don't know how to do it.
What do I, what are some pivotsI can I can use?
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
In the scenario you're talking about, I'd ask
you, where where are you in thecall typically when that
situation might come up?
Are you at the end?
Are you in the middle?
Walk me through that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Yeah, for me, it's probably like 75% through the
call is when I'm usually askingabout the budget.
Probably should happen earlier.
But let's say it's at 75%.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Well, when sure, 75%.
One way to go about this is youcan mention it early on.
So mention it as early in thecall as possible.
That can help disarm thesituation because if you wait
too late and you wait till theend, what usually happens is the
buyer, they might one, theymight have sticker shock, or
two, they just haven't put anythought into what they're
(07:45):
willing to spend.
And so if you wait till the endand you only have five minutes,
six minutes left in theconversation, the natural thing
to say is, thanks for all thisinfo.
Let me put some thought into itand get back to you, right?
The better way to go about it isas early as you possibly can,
say, hey, typically the programor our services cost this, or
(08:05):
hey, our program is this, andwe'll talk about the specifics
about it, but just want to getthat on your radar.
Is that something that couldcould potentially work for you?
What you'll find is usuallypeople will say, Yeah, we might
be able to make that work, orthat shouldn't be a shouldn't be
an issue.
Or they'll say, No, that'scompletely not an option.
Now, the the beauty of it is ifyou get that last result where
(08:27):
they say, absolutely under nooption, like under no world
would I be able to afford this,then you end the call or you
say, Well, great, you've got mytime for the next 20 minutes,
and maybe you do some freecoaching or something.
But most of the time, peoplewill say, Yes, that that's a
possibility, or we couldprobably make that work.
And what happens to the buyer iswhen you confront that earlier
(08:48):
on in the conversation, they nowhave the time to talk themselves
into why it's worth that as yougo through the rest of your
value prop and the rest of yourprogram.
And so now they know the priceand they're sort of adding up
all the things as to why it maybe worth that.
So one way to get better at itis squeeze it in earlier, hit it
(09:08):
head on.
And then if you wait till theend and you're nervous, that
energy comes off on the buyer.
So typically I would just say,get ahead of it early, be be
right up front with it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Yeah.
And you know, they're alwayswondering, like they're on that
call because they're curiousabout money is part of that.
So you just like break the iceand say, okay, you're probably
wondering about the money.
So let's talk about that first.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
I love that.
And the way you just said thatright there, you're probably
wondering about the money.
Let's talk about that first.
That is a perfect magic pivotright there.
And you might just get reallygood at saying that and way to
go.
For anybody listening, if youheard that, that is a great line
because listen to how Sarah saidit there.
It sounded organic because itwas.
We're just having aconversation, but she didn't
(09:53):
say, let's talk budget, let'stalk price point.
She said more casually, you'reprobably worrying about the
money.
Let's talk about that first.
That is a magic pivot rightthere.
So something to tuck away anduse.
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
Excellent.
I'm gonna use that from now on.
Okay, so we're on a sales call.
And okay, I feel prettycomfortable on sales calls, but
let's say I'm not.
I'm nervous, it makes me souncomfortable, and I hate
talking about money.
I hate feeling salesy.
It's all gross to me.
(10:26):
How do I make this feel naturaland conversational when that's
not how I feel?
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
One thing to think through is do doing some soul
searching for anyone on theother side of this that feels
feels like that is like it'sit's grimy and slimy, is maybe
making sure you're sellingsomething that you really like
to sell and you really enjoyselling makes all the difference
in the world.
And the other part of it isoften that money side of it.
(10:55):
We don't want to feel weirdabout taking money from somebody
else.
And so when we get really in agood state of mind that the
money being spent is money wellspent, it be it gets a lot
easier.
So I would say if there'ssomething, let's say you're
listening and you're in chargeof if you most of this audience
is not like a sales rep at alarger company, you're selling
something that you've developedyourself, an offer.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Yeah, most of the time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
And so, what can you do?
Yeah, what can you do to thatoffer to make it that much more
convicting in your soul?
And when you're starting outearly on, I've been in business
for myself my whole professionalcareer.
There are some times when youneed to lower the price of
something so you have thatconviction behind it because you
know it's a home run deal.
(11:38):
And there are times when youneed to raise it because uh it's
worth way more.
So if you're selling something,maybe you can enhance the offer
to get more excited about it.
But sometimes you need to sellit a little lower to really get
that confidence and see it workand stack those wins before you
can raise it.
Uh, I think anytime I've hadapprehension in selling
something because of like justit's felt weird, it's because I
(12:00):
lack some form of convictionbehind the sale.
And those are some ways to getaround.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
That's spot on.
That's what I've always seentoo.
Like, if you don't believe inthe offer, if you don't think
that that value is truly there,that's when you start feeling
uncomfortable.
So looking at the price, that'swhere you can start because it's
usually like I feel like I'mrobbing them, or you have a hard
(12:26):
time on the other end whereyou're like, I feel like I'm
giving this away at this pricepoint.
So like I don't even want tobother.
Like those are the two extremesthat I'm constantly seeing where
when I'm really comfortableselling an offer, it's usually
it falls into I feel likethey're getting way more value
(12:49):
than they're paying for, but inlike a good way.
Like it's not taking advantageof me, but like I feel good in
giving this to them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Yeah, that's where you want to be.
That's the sweet spot.
I think it should always feelthat way.
Because if your buyer feels thatsame way too, they're gonna pass
along words to other people,they're gonna want to buy again.
You always want to feel likeyou're on that side of the value
scale, that you'reover-delivering.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Yeah.
And I think like on theconsultant end, like the people
who are listening to this rightnow, you can usually get to that
point where you feel like you'regiving something away that's
really valuable for a fair pricepoint when you're looking at
your offer and you're you'refixing any like deliverability
(13:37):
issues, like things that take upextra time that don't need to.
So just looking at that offerand taking out anything that's
unnecessary.
So it's not eating up your timeso much, but it's high value.
So it looks, it's, I feel likeit's usually an operations
adjustment that can get you intothat place.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
I agree, or even a slight positioning, slight
messaging thing.
I think of working with oneclient on a project where
they're selling a single-dayworkshop and they would position
it as a single-day workshop.
But the reality was there were acouple follow-up calls.
So really it was a 30-dayengagement.
And even making that slightshift on saying, hey, rather
(14:21):
than this is a one-day workshopthat feels high pressure.
Like, what if we don't geteverything done in one day?
And and without even changingmuch, repositioning it to a
30-day engagement, close ratewent through the roof.
So those are some tactics andthings to do to one, increase
the service, the quality ofservice, over deliver on value,
and make it seem like ano-brainer without really
(14:41):
changing much at all.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
That's a really good point.
Because when, well, one, whenyou set time parameters around
your offer, people start doingthe math and thinking, so it
costs this much per hour to workwith that person.
Whereas if you give the offer aname and it's not so much around
the parameters, like this is asprint or this is an intensive,
(15:04):
instead of this is a four-hourworkshop, mind shift.
There's people are no longerdoing the math around your time.
(16:13):
They're looking more at theoutcome.
This is what I'll get at theend.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
Yep.
Spot on.
unknown (16:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Let's look at the next point.
So you said, how do you closemore deals without more leads?
So, how do you improve yourconversion rate, which is
something all of my clients arewanting right now.
I just brought in a whole bunchof new people into Book Down
Six, and they're all in thatpoint where they're they're
selling their gateway offers.
(16:40):
So they're gonna, everybodyscoot in a little bit closer
right now.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Yeah.
Love it.
Well, I like to think of theconcept of revenue hiding in
plain sight.
So if you didn't change youroffer, let's assume your offer's
down, let's assume you kind ofknow how you're getting your
leads, but maybe your closerate's struggling and suffering.
So rather than stressing abouthow can I get more leads, now
the question is how can Iincrease my revenue by just
being better in conversation andbetter in the calls?
(17:05):
And there's really two ways todo this.
We talk about you need to have agame plan and a strategy.
And some of the things we'vealready talked about earlier,
the magic pivots, the ways tohit the money side head on, all
those work.
All those are super helpful tobuild out sort of your game
plan.
One thing that so many peopleforget to do is locking in next
steps and locking in momentumbecause they're afraid of
(17:27):
getting a no.
We'd almost rather our humaninsecurities would rather live
with a deal in maybe, maybethey'll get back to me.
They said they'd get back to me,or I'll follow up.
Deal purgatory.
We'd rather live in that space.
Yeah, we'd rather live in dealpurgatory or follow up hell,
like I like to call it if wewant to use the different naming
of it, but following upconstantly because we don't have
(17:48):
a yes or a no.
And so the way to eliminate thatand spike your close rate is to
get really good at when there'sfive, six minutes left in the
call.
Hey, what are your thoughts?
And you, you know, what feelslike the right next step for you
is something you may ask theother party.
And then never let thatconversation end without one of
three things happening.
Either deciding it's not a goodfit and clean break, or closing
(18:12):
the deal or scheduling the nextconversation.
If it's anything but thosethree, the deal is good as lost.
And so I would get very good atjust implementing what are our
next steps and what are we doingafter this call.
That will probably double theclose rate of many people
listening here.
A simple tactic or strategy youcan try is what we call three
(18:33):
next steps.
My step as the salesperson, yourstep as the buyer, our next step
together.
It clicks really well together.
So as you wind down aconversation, you can say, uh,
you suss out where they're at,you see what they want to do.
First step, I'm gonna send thecontract.
Next step, you're gonna sign,and then we're gonna schedule
our onboarding together.
That could be for someone readyto buy.
(18:55):
For someone in the middle, itmight be, hey, first I'm gonna
send you this case study.
Next, you give it a read and letme know all the questions you
have about it.
And third, let's meet again intwo weeks.
How does that work for you?
And if you can get past the fearof them saying, no, I don't
really want to meet with youagain, if you can get past that,
you're gonna get so much moreclarity and and way more closed
(19:16):
deals.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah, I really like that framework.
Um, I'm also a believer.
You need to have that next stepon that sales call.
That's why I love gatewayoffers.
Because once you have that call,it's like, okay, the next step
is to book your gateway offer.
We can get a time now.
The next one I have available isthis date and this time.
(19:38):
Does that work for you?
And it's an easy way to easesomeone into an entry point
offer.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
Spot on.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Okay.
And the last thing we wanted totouch on is how to stop guessing
on discovery calls so you canguide your prospects through to
the next step.
That sounds like this.
Is that Beth?
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah, this is a huge part of it.
The other part is none of thisis possible if we don't
understand the real pain pointor the real problem behind what
the other person is trying toachieve.
And it's very um, it's very easyto start a conversation with,
hey, talk to me a little bitabout, you know, what you'd like
to learn or tell me what caughtyour attention and what led you
to this call.
But the best sellers we know areasking 11 or more questions in
(20:23):
their calls.
And close rates go up to set, go74% higher when a sales rope can
ask 11 or more questions.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And that's for a whole bunch of reasons.
Yeah.
And if we really think throughthat, is you know, why is that?
It's because people are gettingto real pain points by 11
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
You may not need to ask all 11 questions, but if
we're thinking about how can weuncover pain points, that makes
our positioning of our service,our three-step plan at the end,
it's all relevant to a painpoint rather than trying to
figure something out and hopingand making, you know, hoping it
works out.
(21:01):
So really, you can't guideanyone to the next step unless
you have a very, very clear ideaof the pain point and you've
repeated it back to them.
And you've said, hey, based onwhat you've told me, what I've
got here is this.
This is your situation.
This is the outcome it'screating.
This is what's at stake if youdon't do anything about it.
Is there anything I missed?
That's one magic pivot that Iwould recommend a lot of people
to use is is that what's Imissed?
(21:22):
Is there anything I missed?
Because once you get used tosaying that, people will open up
with a lot of gold.
And between all the differenttactics we've talked about
today, you should have enough toguide forward in the next step.
And don't be afraid to tellsomeone it's not a good fit.
I think that's another reallyimportant thing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
Yeah, I like that actually reminds me of when I
was just interviewing people forcontent.
Is there anything that I shouldknow that I haven't asked you
before?
Is like a perfect question thatyou could ask on a sales call.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Use that one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Yeah, I will.
I'll take that over from myarticle writing days.
Oh, I remember what question Iwas going to ask you.
So you said that you should haveat least 11 questions.
Are there any specific questionsthat we never want to miss?
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
What I always lean on, or what I think everyone
who's selling anything shouldlean on, is what I call cheat
code questions, which are reallyclarifying questions.
There's three of them.
Why, why is that?
Can you tell me more about that?
And can you go a little bitdeeper on that, right?
Just going the same question.
There's three differentvariations.
And you can ask those questionsover and over again.
(22:32):
You could ask, can you tell memore about that three or four
times in different ways to getto your 11 questions?
So, what for sure uh you want toask, like, what's the surface
level reason we're having thisconversation?
What uh tell me a little bitabout your situation.
Beyond that, you want to asksomething timing related.
So, why now?
(22:52):
Why are you interested in thisprocess now, or what led you to
book this call now as opposed tosix months ago or three weeks
ago or the future?
And that's a really importantone because that will help you
fill in the gaps of your nextsteps at the end of a
conversation.
If you're not sure where to leadthem next, timing will help fill
in all those gaps.
So don't forget your cheat codequestions and don't forget to
ask about timing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Okay, that's perfect.
Now, for anybody who wants to godeeper with you, you have a
book.
Fix your broken sales call righthere.
And can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
And we'll have the link in theshow notes too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Sure.
Yeah, fix your broken salescalls.
It's a book on how can you Youdesign your ideal sales call?
How can you make one that workswell for you that accomplishes
all the steps on the bridge wetalked about earlier?
And then coming out of that,you're going to have your own
like secret scoring formula forhow to rate a deal in a sales
call.
And it's not super techie, it'ssuper simple and easy to execute
on.
And the book will give youexamples on how other companies
(23:51):
have used the framework, howother solopreneurs have used the
framework and how you can buildit for yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (23:55):
I am so excited to get into that.
I told you, I'm in the middle ofa launch right now.
So I haven't read anything forpleasure or business, but I am
so excited to dig into this.
Like I can't even explain howmuch I love content around sales
because it felt like such amystery to me when I started my
business.
(24:15):
So it just excites me so much tounderstand like the psychology.
And it's just, I actually enjoyit now.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Good.
Well, I hope you enjoy the booktoo.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Yes, I can't wait to get into it.
Before we wrap up, how canpeople find you online and how
can they work with you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Yep, bridgeselling.com is the best
way to book a time.
You can talk with me if you'rehaving struggles in your sales
process.
We'd be happy to learn moreabout it and see if we can do
something to help you out.
LinkedIn, Johnny Holston, you'llsee my name in the show in the
show notes.
That's a good place to connect.
Also, our work is a mixture oftraining, coaching, and
strategy.
So wherever you fall in thatspectrum, be happy to have a
(24:53):
chat and see if we can help youget dialed in on your sales.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Awesome.
And who are you typicallyworking with?
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
We're working with sales teams.
So a mixture of uh people whohave larger sales teams where
maybe they need to level up theskills of their people.
But we also do have options forsolopreneur and small
businesses.
If you want to do a workshopthat's maybe half a day or a
full day where it's 30-dayengagement, like we talked about
earlier with the uh couplecheck-ins after that workshop,
(25:20):
we can help you to just uh letus know where what situation
you're in, and we're happy tohappy to have a chat either way
and point you somewhere else ifwe can't help.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Yeah, awesome.
I needed to know because I talkto so many people and they're
always asking for referrals.
So that's why I was asking.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
The most important thing is, you know, you've got
to know what you're selling andyou've got to have your lead
flow figured out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Thank you.
If this episode made things feela little more doable, I'd love
to help you take the next stepwith the booked out blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
Welcome to Tiny Marketing Podcast.
I'm Serena Off Block.
This show is made for soloconsultants who want to get
booked out without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
fits into your life so growthfeels doable instead of
overwhelming.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
My name is Johnny.
I'm a sales trainer andstrategist from Bridge Selling.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
Awesome.
That was straight to the point.
Thank you for joining me today.
And we are talking about how youcan have a better sales call.
What would you say are the threethings that people are doing
wrong on sales call?
SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
The big one is just going into it with no strategy
at all, like no set game planfor how that call is going to be
run.
And because you're doing that,you don't have a game plan.
Because you don't have a gameplan, you don't have a way to
score and assess where you'reat.
And then because you don't haveeither of those two things, your
follow-up and your next stepsare usually sort of random and
(01:41):
sporadic.
And so I think those are threeof the big things.
No, no set game plan, whichmeans you're you're grading and
you're scoring your dealsdifferently from one to the
next.
And then it helps, it makes itimpossible to have momentum
moving one conversation to thenext to a closed deal.
So that's sort of three thingslumped in one that all come from
just having no game plan, havingno strategy or structure for a
(02:04):
call.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
And so most of the audience here are solo
consultants and they're smallteams.
How should they be assessing ifsomeone is a good fit or not?
Like how do they score when theydon't have maybe a CRM that
would typically be scoring?
SPEAKER_01 (02:24):
Yeah, well, it's super simple.
When a lot of times when peoplehear scoring or like analyzing
deals, we're thinking tech,we're thinking CRM is a good
thing.
No, yeah, this can be done on aspreadsheet.
This can be done in your brain.
This can be done on a notepad.
And the way we like to look atit is anytime you're closing a
deal, you're crossing a bridge.
(02:45):
You're getting your customerfrom one side of the bridge to
the next.
And the way we approach it isacross that bridge, there are
six different steps.
And how we score a deal iswhether or not that deal, that
buyer, how how they got throughthose six steps.
And so we part of that is whatwe call the bridge score.
And the way you should belooking at whether or not
someone's a qualified buyer, andit's different for everybody
(03:07):
because we all sell differentthings to different people, but
the four main ways to look atit.
One, do they have a problem thatyou can solve?
So the first thing we look at isdo they genuinely have the right
problem for you to solve?
The next is do they have theauthority and the budget to make
the buying decisions?
So are you talking to someone,if you're selling, especially in
(03:27):
B2B or larger B2B?
Oftentimes you won't be speakingto the decision maker.
But if you're a solopreneur andyou have smaller offers, likely
you're speaking to the decisionmaker.
So that's just something to keepin mind.
The third piece is does theirtimeline align with yours?
So do you have capacity for nowor later?
And does that line up with thebuyer?
(03:47):
And the fourth thing is how whatis the likelihood that that
buyer is going to be a ravingfan or a huge success story?
So be thinking of it in thosefour categories.
Does the does this person have aproblem you can solve?
Do they have the budget to payfull price and make that
decision?
Do they have the timeline thatworks with yours?
And will they are they likely tobe a success story?
SPEAKER_00 (04:08):
So that could be easy enough done, like uh if you
have a Google Doc and you justhave a checklist on there where
every time you have a salescall, maybe you have your little
spiel on there, or at least thequestions that you want
answered, and then you can havethat checklist.
Do they hit these?
And that can be great idea toschool.
SPEAKER_01 (04:30):
Most of those things can also be can be sussed out on
an intake form.
A lot of them can be.
So you can have a really goodidea, even coming into a call.
Does this person check thoseboxes or not?
And even in in conversation withsomeone, you can be really
honest and say, hey, as we divein, the best fit for this
program or for this offer isthis, and give them a bit of a
(04:50):
rundown, save everybody's timeby being clear like that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:54):
Yeah, that's such a good idea to like bring to the
forefront is allow people toself-identify in or out from the
beginning.
That makes it so much easier andsaves everybody a lot of time.
Okay.
So when I think about like weneed to score, we and so we need
(05:16):
to score, we need to find outthis information about someone.
I automatically think either wehave like a beat sheet that
we're trying to hit or atemplate or a script.
So what are your thoughts onthat?
SPEAKER_01 (05:34):
Yeah, we you don't want to have to follow script.
You shouldn't have to followscript typically.
What I like to think of is whatwe call magic pivots.
So there are differentcheckpoints and different steps
in a sales call.
If it feels overly scripted andthe whole thing is being run by
a script, no one's gonna feelconnection.
So instead, I would focus onwhat are the parts of the call
(05:54):
that feel feel most difficult toyou?
And can you really work on somelanguage, some pivots that are
gonna help you guide theconversation in that direction
so that you don't feel tense andyou don't feel stressful?
Maybe you have a hard timeasking for the sale or asking or
talking about the finances.
Can you create some magic pivotsthat you do get rehearsed and
(06:14):
scripted within those pivots,but the rest of your call should
feel organic and the ultimateend place with any any magic
pivot or scripted language isthat it never comes across like
a script.
SPEAKER_00 (06:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I always find scripts or evenpitch jacks, they they all feel
like this is not my vibe.
I'm not invested in this.
I want to talk about those magicpivots.
So let's say I'm on a sales calland it's come to that point
(06:47):
where I need to figure out doyou have the budget for this
offer?
Like, is it worth moving youforward into like the next step?
But I feel awkward.
I don't know how to do it.
What do I, what are some pivotsI can I can use?
SPEAKER_01 (07:04):
In the scenario you're talking about, I'd ask
you, where where are you in thecall typically when that
situation might come up?
Are you at the end?
Are you in the middle?
Walk me through that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:13):
Yeah, for me, it's probably like 75% through the
call is when I'm usually askingabout the budget.
Probably should happen earlier.
But let's say it's at 75%.
SPEAKER_01 (07:24):
Well, when sure, 75%.
One way to go about this is youcan mention it early on.
So mention it as early in thecall as possible.
That can help disarm thesituation because if you wait
too late and you wait till theend, what usually happens is the
buyer, they might one, theymight have sticker shock, or
two, they just haven't put anythought into what they're
(07:45):
willing to spend.
And so if you wait till the endand you only have five minutes,
six minutes left in theconversation, the natural thing
to say is, thanks for all thisinfo.
Let me put some thought into itand get back to you, right?
The better way to go about it isas early as you possibly can,
say, hey, typically the programor our services cost this, or
(08:05):
hey, our program is this, andwe'll talk about the specifics
about it, but just want to getthat on your radar.
Is that something that couldcould potentially work for you?
What you'll find is usuallypeople will say, Yeah, we might
be able to make that work, orthat shouldn't be a shouldn't be
an issue.
Or they'll say, No, that'scompletely not an option.
Now, the the beauty of it is ifyou get that last result where
(08:27):
they say, absolutely under nooption, like under no world
would I be able to afford this,then you end the call or you
say, Well, great, you've got mytime for the next 20 minutes,
and maybe you do some freecoaching or something.
But most of the time, peoplewill say, Yes, that that's a
possibility, or we couldprobably make that work.
And what happens to the buyer iswhen you confront that earlier
(08:48):
on in the conversation, they nowhave the time to talk themselves
into why it's worth that as yougo through the rest of your
value prop and the rest of yourprogram.
And so now they know the priceand they're sort of adding up
all the things as to why it maybe worth that.
So one way to get better at itis squeeze it in earlier, hit it
(09:08):
head on.
And then if you wait till theend and you're nervous, that
energy comes off on the buyer.
So typically I would just say,get ahead of it early, be be
right up front with it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:18):
Yeah.
And you know, they're alwayswondering, like they're on that
call because they're curiousabout money is part of that.
So you just like break the iceand say, okay, you're probably
wondering about the money.
So let's talk about that first.
SPEAKER_01 (09:32):
I love that.
And the way you just said thatright there, you're probably
wondering about the money.
Let's talk about that first.
That is a perfect magic pivotright there.
And you might just get reallygood at saying that and way to
go.
For anybody listening, if youheard that, that is a great line
because listen to how Sarah saidit there.
It sounded organic because itwas.
We're just having aconversation, but she didn't
(09:53):
say, let's talk budget, let'stalk price point.
She said more casually, you'reprobably worrying about the
money.
Let's talk about that first.
That is a magic pivot rightthere.
So something to tuck away anduse.
SPEAKER_00 (10:04):
Excellent.
I'm gonna use that from now on.
Okay, so we're on a sales call.
And okay, I feel prettycomfortable on sales calls, but
let's say I'm not.
I'm nervous, it makes me souncomfortable, and I hate
talking about money.
I hate feeling salesy.
It's all gross to me.
(10:26):
How do I make this feel naturaland conversational when that's
not how I feel?
SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
One thing to think through is do doing some soul
searching for anyone on theother side of this that feels
feels like that is like it'sit's grimy and slimy, is maybe
making sure you're sellingsomething that you really like
to sell and you really enjoyselling makes all the difference
in the world.
And the other part of it isoften that money side of it.
(10:55):
We don't want to feel weirdabout taking money from somebody
else.
And so when we get really in agood state of mind that the
money being spent is money wellspent, it be it gets a lot
easier.
So I would say if there'ssomething, let's say you're
listening and you're in chargeof if you most of this audience
is not like a sales rep at alarger company, you're selling
something that you've developedyourself, an offer.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Yeah, most of the time.
SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
And so, what can you do?
Yeah, what can you do to thatoffer to make it that much more
convicting in your soul?
And when you're starting outearly on, I've been in business
for myself my whole professionalcareer.
There are some times when youneed to lower the price of
something so you have thatconviction behind it because you
know it's a home run deal.
(11:38):
And there are times when youneed to raise it because uh it's
worth way more.
So if you're selling something,maybe you can enhance the offer
to get more excited about it.
But sometimes you need to sellit a little lower to really get
that confidence and see it workand stack those wins before you
can raise it.
Uh, I think anytime I've hadapprehension in selling
something because of like justit's felt weird, it's because I
(12:00):
lack some form of convictionbehind the sale.
And those are some ways to getaround.
SPEAKER_00 (12:05):
That's spot on.
That's what I've always seentoo.
Like, if you don't believe inthe offer, if you don't think
that that value is truly there,that's when you start feeling
uncomfortable.
So looking at the price, that'swhere you can start because it's
usually like I feel like I'mrobbing them, or you have a hard
(12:26):
time on the other end whereyou're like, I feel like I'm
giving this away at this pricepoint.
So like I don't even want tobother.
Like those are the two extremesthat I'm constantly seeing where
when I'm really comfortableselling an offer, it's usually
it falls into I feel likethey're getting way more value
(12:49):
than they're paying for, but inlike a good way.
Like it's not taking advantageof me, but like I feel good in
giving this to them.
SPEAKER_01 (12:59):
Yeah, that's where you want to be.
That's the sweet spot.
I think it should always feelthat way.
Because if your buyer feels thatsame way too, they're gonna pass
along words to other people,they're gonna want to buy again.
You always want to feel likeyou're on that side of the value
scale, that you'reover-delivering.
SPEAKER_00 (13:16):
Yeah.
And I think like on theconsultant end, like the people
who are listening to this rightnow, you can usually get to that
point where you feel like you'regiving something away that's
really valuable for a fair pricepoint when you're looking at
your offer and you're you'refixing any like deliverability
(13:37):
issues, like things that take upextra time that don't need to.
So just looking at that offerand taking out anything that's
unnecessary.
So it's not eating up your timeso much, but it's high value.
So it looks, it's, I feel likeit's usually an operations
adjustment that can get you intothat place.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
I agree, or even a slight positioning, slight
messaging thing.
I think of working with oneclient on a project where
they're selling a single-dayworkshop and they would position
it as a single-day workshop.
But the reality was there were acouple follow-up calls.
So really it was a 30-dayengagement.
And even making that slightshift on saying, hey, rather
(14:21):
than this is a one-day workshopthat feels high pressure.
Like, what if we don't geteverything done in one day?
And and without even changingmuch, repositioning it to a
30-day engagement, close ratewent through the roof.
So those are some tactics andthings to do to one, increase
the service, the quality ofservice, over deliver on value,
and make it seem like ano-brainer without really
(14:41):
changing much at all.
SPEAKER_00 (14:42):
That's a really good point.
Because when, well, one, whenyou set time parameters around
your offer, people start doingthe math and thinking, so it
costs this much per hour to workwith that person.
Whereas if you give the offer aname and it's not so much around
the parameters, like this is asprint or this is an intensive,
(15:04):
instead of this is a four-hourworkshop, mind shift.
There's people are no longerdoing the math around your time.
(16:13):
They're looking more at theoutcome.
This is what I'll get at theend.
SPEAKER_01 (16:17):
Yep.
Spot on.
unknown (16:19):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Let's look at the next point.
So you said, how do you closemore deals without more leads?
So, how do you improve yourconversion rate, which is
something all of my clients arewanting right now.
I just brought in a whole bunchof new people into Book Down
Six, and they're all in thatpoint where they're they're
selling their gateway offers.
(16:40):
So they're gonna, everybodyscoot in a little bit closer
right now.
SPEAKER_01 (16:44):
Yeah.
Love it.
Well, I like to think of theconcept of revenue hiding in
plain sight.
So if you didn't change youroffer, let's assume your offer's
down, let's assume you kind ofknow how you're getting your
leads, but maybe your closerate's struggling and suffering.
So rather than stressing abouthow can I get more leads, now
the question is how can Iincrease my revenue by just
being better in conversation andbetter in the calls?
(17:05):
And there's really two ways todo this.
We talk about you need to have agame plan and a strategy.
And some of the things we'vealready talked about earlier,
the magic pivots, the ways tohit the money side head on, all
those work.
All those are super helpful tobuild out sort of your game
plan.
One thing that so many peopleforget to do is locking in next
steps and locking in momentumbecause they're afraid of
(17:27):
getting a no.
We'd almost rather our humaninsecurities would rather live
with a deal in maybe, maybethey'll get back to me.
They said they'd get back to me,or I'll follow up.
Deal purgatory.
We'd rather live in that space.
Yeah, we'd rather live in dealpurgatory or follow up hell,
like I like to call it if wewant to use the different naming
of it, but following upconstantly because we don't have
(17:48):
a yes or a no.
And so the way to eliminate thatand spike your close rate is to
get really good at when there'sfive, six minutes left in the
call.
Hey, what are your thoughts?
And you, you know, what feelslike the right next step for you
is something you may ask theother party.
And then never let thatconversation end without one of
three things happening.
Either deciding it's not a goodfit and clean break, or closing
(18:12):
the deal or scheduling the nextconversation.
If it's anything but thosethree, the deal is good as lost.
And so I would get very good atjust implementing what are our
next steps and what are we doingafter this call.
That will probably double theclose rate of many people
listening here.
A simple tactic or strategy youcan try is what we call three
(18:33):
next steps.
My step as the salesperson, yourstep as the buyer, our next step
together.
It clicks really well together.
So as you wind down aconversation, you can say, uh,
you suss out where they're at,you see what they want to do.
First step, I'm gonna send thecontract.
Next step, you're gonna sign,and then we're gonna schedule
our onboarding together.
That could be for someone readyto buy.
(18:55):
For someone in the middle, itmight be, hey, first I'm gonna
send you this case study.
Next, you give it a read and letme know all the questions you
have about it.
And third, let's meet again intwo weeks.
How does that work for you?
And if you can get past the fearof them saying, no, I don't
really want to meet with youagain, if you can get past that,
you're gonna get so much moreclarity and and way more closed
(19:16):
deals.
SPEAKER_00 (19:17):
Yeah, I really like that framework.
Um, I'm also a believer.
You need to have that next stepon that sales call.
That's why I love gatewayoffers.
Because once you have that call,it's like, okay, the next step
is to book your gateway offer.
We can get a time now.
The next one I have available isthis date and this time.
(19:38):
Does that work for you?
And it's an easy way to easesomeone into an entry point
offer.
SPEAKER_01 (19:47):
Spot on.
SPEAKER_00 (19:48):
Okay.
And the last thing we wanted totouch on is how to stop guessing
on discovery calls so you canguide your prospects through to
the next step.
That sounds like this.
Is that Beth?
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
Yeah, this is a huge part of it.
The other part is none of thisis possible if we don't
understand the real pain pointor the real problem behind what
the other person is trying toachieve.
And it's very um, it's very easyto start a conversation with,
hey, talk to me a little bitabout, you know, what you'd like
to learn or tell me what caughtyour attention and what led you
to this call.
But the best sellers we know areasking 11 or more questions in
(20:23):
their calls.
And close rates go up to set, go74% higher when a sales rope can
ask 11 or more questions.
SPEAKER_00 (20:30):
That's interesting.
SPEAKER_01 (20:31):
And that's for a whole bunch of reasons.
Yeah.
And if we really think throughthat, is you know, why is that?
It's because people are gettingto real pain points by 11
questions.
SPEAKER_00 (20:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (20:40):
You may not need to ask all 11 questions, but if
we're thinking about how can weuncover pain points, that makes
our positioning of our service,our three-step plan at the end,
it's all relevant to a painpoint rather than trying to
figure something out and hopingand making, you know, hoping it
works out.
(21:01):
So really, you can't guideanyone to the next step unless
you have a very, very clear ideaof the pain point and you've
repeated it back to them.
And you've said, hey, based onwhat you've told me, what I've
got here is this.
This is your situation.
This is the outcome it'screating.
This is what's at stake if youdon't do anything about it.
Is there anything I missed?
That's one magic pivot that Iwould recommend a lot of people
to use is is that what's Imissed?
(21:22):
Is there anything I missed?
Because once you get used tosaying that, people will open up
with a lot of gold.
And between all the differenttactics we've talked about
today, you should have enough toguide forward in the next step.
And don't be afraid to tellsomeone it's not a good fit.
I think that's another reallyimportant thing.
SPEAKER_00 (21:38):
Yeah, I like that actually reminds me of when I
was just interviewing people forcontent.
Is there anything that I shouldknow that I haven't asked you
before?
Is like a perfect question thatyou could ask on a sales call.
SPEAKER_01 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah.
Use that one.
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Yeah, I will.
I'll take that over from myarticle writing days.
Oh, I remember what question Iwas going to ask you.
So you said that you should haveat least 11 questions.
Are there any specific questionsthat we never want to miss?
SPEAKER_01 (22:09):
What I always lean on, or what I think everyone
who's selling anything shouldlean on, is what I call cheat
code questions, which are reallyclarifying questions.
There's three of them.
Why, why is that?
Can you tell me more about that?
And can you go a little bitdeeper on that, right?
Just going the same question.
There's three differentvariations.
And you can ask those questionsover and over again.
(22:32):
You could ask, can you tell memore about that three or four
times in different ways to getto your 11 questions?
So, what for sure uh you want toask, like, what's the surface
level reason we're having thisconversation?
What uh tell me a little bitabout your situation.
Beyond that, you want to asksomething timing related.
So, why now?
(22:52):
Why are you interested in thisprocess now, or what led you to
book this call now as opposed tosix months ago or three weeks
ago or the future?
And that's a really importantone because that will help you
fill in the gaps of your nextsteps at the end of a
conversation.
If you're not sure where to leadthem next, timing will help fill
in all those gaps.
So don't forget your cheat codequestions and don't forget to
ask about timing.
SPEAKER_00 (23:13):
Okay, that's perfect.
Now, for anybody who wants to godeeper with you, you have a
book.
Fix your broken sales call righthere.
And can you tell me a little bitmore about that?
And we'll have the link in theshow notes too.
SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Sure.
Yeah, fix your broken salescalls.
It's a book on how can you Youdesign your ideal sales call?
How can you make one that workswell for you that accomplishes
all the steps on the bridge wetalked about earlier?
And then coming out of that,you're going to have your own
like secret scoring formula forhow to rate a deal in a sales
call.
And it's not super techie, it'ssuper simple and easy to execute
on.
And the book will give youexamples on how other companies
(23:51):
have used the framework, howother solopreneurs have used the
framework and how you can buildit for yourself.
SPEAKER_00 (23:55):
I am so excited to get into that.
I told you, I'm in the middle ofa launch right now.
So I haven't read anything forpleasure or business, but I am
so excited to dig into this.
Like I can't even explain howmuch I love content around sales
because it felt like such amystery to me when I started my
business.
(24:15):
So it just excites me so much tounderstand like the psychology.
And it's just, I actually enjoyit now.
SPEAKER_01 (24:24):
Good.
Well, I hope you enjoy the booktoo.
SPEAKER_00 (24:26):
Yes, I can't wait to get into it.
Before we wrap up, how canpeople find you online and how
can they work with you?
SPEAKER_01 (24:32):
Yep, bridgeselling.com is the best
way to book a time.
You can talk with me if you'rehaving struggles in your sales
process.
We'd be happy to learn moreabout it and see if we can do
something to help you out.
LinkedIn, Johnny Holston, you'llsee my name in the show in the
show notes.
That's a good place to connect.
Also, our work is a mixture oftraining, coaching, and
strategy.
So wherever you fall in thatspectrum, be happy to have a
(24:53):
chat and see if we can help youget dialed in on your sales.
SPEAKER_00 (24:56):
Awesome.
And who are you typicallyworking with?
SPEAKER_01 (25:00):
We're working with sales teams.
So a mixture of uh people whohave larger sales teams where
maybe they need to level up theskills of their people.
But we also do have options forsolopreneur and small
businesses.
If you want to do a workshopthat's maybe half a day or a
full day where it's 30-dayengagement, like we talked about
earlier with the uh couplecheck-ins after that workshop,
(25:20):
we can help you to just uh letus know where what situation
you're in, and we're happy tohappy to have a chat either way
and point you somewhere else ifwe can't help.
SPEAKER_00 (25:28):
Yeah, awesome.
I needed to know because I talkto so many people and they're
always asking for referrals.
So that's why I was asking.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Thank you.
Yep.
SPEAKER_01 (25:39):
The most important thing is, you know, you've got
to know what you're selling andyou've got to have your lead
flow figured out.
SPEAKER_00 (25:44):
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Thank you.
If this episode made things feela little more doable, I'd love
to help you take the next stepwith the booked out blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
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