This is the replay of the LIVE workshop Melissa Camilleri facilitated with Tiny Marketing last week.
We show you how to pre-sell a group program so you get paid before you build, using a simple MVP instead of months of recording and guessing. We also dig into why human feedback and community matter more than ever as AI makes information cheap.
• pre-selling as paid proof of concept to reduce risk
• shifting from 1:1 time limits to one-to-many scalability
• starting with what already works in your client process
• identifying the “hump” that becomes a focused mini-offer
• designing a minimum viable product that delivers outcomes
• choosing a format learners will actually use
• keeping launches simple with connect collect deliver
• what you do not need like pre-recorded modules or fancy pages
• handling low enrollment and still delivering value
• positioning expertise beyond AI with support and community
Check the show notes to get started.
Go to challenge.saranoelblock.com.
It’s at standfortheand.com slash sold out.
You can book yours through the link in the show notes.
Sign up and be part of the next masterclass by going to events.saranoelblock.com.
Are you tired of prospects ghosting you? With a Gateway Offer, that won't happen.
Over the next Ten Days, we will launch and sell our Gateway Offers with the goal of reaching booked-out status!
Join the challenge here.
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I offer free events each month to help you master your business's growth through marketing, sales, systems, and offer strategy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
If you're tired of guessing how to get booked out,
I've got something for you.
My booked out blueprint startswith a private 45-minute
interview where I learn yourbusiness, your goals, and what's
actually holding you back.
From that, I create a customroadmap showing your best route
to booked out.
No fluff, just clarity.
It's only$397, and if you moveforward into Booked Out in Six,
(00:24):
my uh six mission program, that397 is fully credited.
Check the show notes to getstarted.
Welcome to the Tiny MarketingPodcast.
I'm Serena Block.
This show is made for soloconsultants who want to get
booked out without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
(00:46):
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
fits into your life.
So growth feels doable insteadof overwhelming.
Hello.
Hi, what a great car.
I know I want to love that song.
So thank you everyone who'sjoining today.
(01:06):
This is Melissa, and she is theco-founder of the Impact
Incubator.
She helps booked-out soulopeners and microbusinesses add
one-to-many group learningexperiences to their offer.
And I'm super excited because wereally align on the fact that
you should always pre-sell youroffers before you build them.
(01:28):
Don't waste your time.
Don't waste your time.
No.
Today we are going to get intohow to get paid to create your
group program.
And I know a lot of you, atleast the people in Booked Out
and Six, you're experiencingthat where you're starting to
get to that point where you needa group offer in order to scale
(01:51):
higher than your booked outpoint, and you don't know what
the next step is.
And this is it.
So I'm going to remove myselfand give Melissa the stage, and
I'll add your presentation rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for having me,Sarah.
I'm super excited to chat withall of you about there are very
few hills that I'm willing todie on.
But this one is that if I could,I just wrote this on LinkedIn.
If I could shake every creatoror slowpreneur, um, small
business owner, consultant whogets this idea, you know what?
(02:25):
I should create a group program.
I should create a course.
I should create, I should host aretreat, I should blah, blah,
blah, whatever.
Um, I wish I could shake peopleby the shoulders and say, first
get paid and then go and createit.
Um, and so this is one of thosehells that I'm willing to die at
because if I had a dime foreverybody who came to me at some
point and said, well, this wouldhave been great, but you know,
(02:49):
I've already spent tens ofthousands of dollars and a whole
year of my life trying to putsomething together.
Oh my gosh, like it just breaksmy heart.
So this is get paid to createyour program.
This is um a training that myco-founder, Angela Greaser, and
I um get most requested becauseit is such a um a prevalent
(03:11):
topic.
So I'm curious to know a littlebit about why you are here, what
made you sign up for thistraining?
So if you could type in the chatthe number which is most
reflective of you.
So, number one, you're aconsultant or a coach or an
author, agency owner, speaker,strategist, designer, et cetera,
et cetera, looking for a new wayto monetize or expand your work
(03:31):
beyond just more one-to-one.
Because if you're working withSarah already, you're booked or
nearly booked, and you only haveso many hours in a day, right?
So you don't want to hire morestaff necessarily.
You're just not sure how you canlike create maybe more blank
space on your calendar and ormore financial flexibility.
Um, or is it number two, youhave a successful business and
(03:53):
have thought about creating agroup offer, but haven't really
been able to divert resources toactually make it happen, meaning
you're so in the weeds with yourclients that to think about
like, okay, now how am I goingto siphon off some time in order
to create this thing?
Like, you just haven't reallywrapped your head around that
yet.
Or is it number three?
You're an expert in your fieldand you've tried launching some
(04:15):
sort of group learningexperience in the past, but you
haven't gotten the results orthe clients you needed, and it
left you feeling a little bitdeflated.
Or number four, something else.
And if it's something else, Iwould love to know what that
thing is.
So um, Sarah, I oh wait, oh,there we go.
Now I can see the comments.
Okay.
Um hey, so lots of ones.
(04:36):
This is great.
So when Sarah and I came up withthat, you know, that we were
gonna do this training umtogether, we thought that that
might be the case, that you'realready to a point where you're
getting booked out.
And it's like, all right, nowwhat is the next step?
And we we definitely believethat this is the next right
step.
So a little bit about how I gothere.
(04:57):
This is also a picture of me,obviously, but also with my
co-founder Angela.
And we're actually teachersfirst.
Both of us, uh, our educationalbackground is as educators.
We're both credential teachers.
And we ended up leaving theclassroom in at different points
in our career to focus more onum building our own business,
(05:17):
but we never left the teachingpart behind.
So, together, we have 28 yearsin digital marketing and
entrepreneurship.
I started a business as afundraiser for college
scholarships to my students backin 2011.
So we like to call ourselves theinternet dinosaur grandmas of
the world because we were whenwe first started online, having
(05:39):
businesses online, we were doingour marketing through blogging.
I mean, but this ispre-Instagram, pre-TikTok, pre-I
mean, maybe LinkedIn was around,but certainly not really for the
greater economy.
It was very corporate, if it waseven around at the time.
So we really focused onblogging.
So you can tell, like we'vewe've seen a thing or two in
digital marketing.
(05:59):
And together, we have generatedor helped our clients generate
over$60 million in revenue.
Um, some of those clients havebeen really big name internet
celebrities that you probablyhave heard of, that maybe you've
taken some of their courses.
Um, and lots and lots ofone-to-one clients who are maybe
(06:21):
like the unknown rock star, theundercover rock stars, you know,
in their industry, where they'resort of flying but below the
radar, and more people need toknow about their good work.
We continue to meet more andmore people who fell into that
category.
Like, have you met so-and-so?
Oh my gosh, she's so smart.
She published a bit about suchand such, whatever, and she's
(06:42):
still working with people onlyone-on-one.
It's time to expand.
And so that is our sweet spot ofthe people who we work with have
a really great idea.
They worked plenty in one-on-onescenario.
So they've already tested theirIP plenty of times.
They know their process works.
And now it's like, how do we getthis to reach more people in a
(07:02):
way that allows us to worktogether as you know, work to
have your clients work togetherthrough something as a group?
There's lots and lots ofdifferent models.
You've probably experienced someof them as a learner yourself.
So we do this through what wecall our impact framework.
And this is just um setting thestage for how you get paid.
But what Angela and I focus onin our impact incubator, which
(07:26):
is our signature program, is westart with intentional
instructional design.
That does not mean we'rebuilding out modules, we're
hiring a video crew to recordourselves reading a script.
It's actually we're thinking umfrom the very beginning, what
are the intended outcomes ofeven doing this at all?
And that is where we have all ofour clients start.
(07:47):
What do you want your learnersto actually walk away with from
this experience?
What is the promise that you'remaking?
So we're going to get a littlebit more into the nitty-gritty
of that, how you can use thatconcept of intentional
instructional design as a way toget paid.
Um, and then we work through themessaging and positioning and
marketing of that offer, how wehave a really people center
(08:10):
centered sales strategy withoutthe like fake urgency and weird
countdown timers.
Because when a lot of expertscome to us, they are worried
that when they start moving moreinto, let's say, a B2C space
where they're selling to thegeneral consumer that what
(08:31):
they've seen in the past is likethis really pushy sales thing.
And they they just want to dogood work and they're not really
feeling that.
And that is not actually what weteach at all.
So it's it's kind of perfect inthat way.
Um, we work a lot on assessmentand feedback.
How do we know that our clientsare successful?
What do they have todemonstrate?
How do you know if you've beensuccessful beyond just the
(08:54):
financial resources just bygetting people behind a pay uh
behind the paywall?
What needs to happen in yourbusiness so that you can.
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
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Ready to take your business tothe next level?
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(09:28):
Plus, get exclusive outreachtemplates that take the
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And because selling should befun, we've gamified this
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(09:49):
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SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Um also consider this, you know, your launch as a
success.
Um, we work on your facilitationand we work on all the tech and
systems that scale.
So this is what we do in ourimpact incubator, where we
actually have a three timesreturn on investment guarantee
when you work with us, or wework with, we continue to work
with you for free if um untilyou get that guarantee.
(11:31):
So, in this particular training,we're taking just a little teeny
slice off of that big tie, andwe're gonna be talking about um
getting paid before you evercreate a single module.
Um, so we're gonna learn todaywhy a pre-sale strategy is the
best kept secret of mostsuccessful course and program
creators, how you can get paid,um, proof of concept that funds
(11:54):
the creation of your program,course, or other group offer,
and the simple steps that youneed to best track your offer
for revenue and client resultsfor long-term success without
any guesswork.
So, according to um the poll atthe beginning, many of you have
um have already booked out orare close to booking out with
(12:17):
your one-to-ones.
And that's like this top half ofthe screen is your
resource-limited offers.
You can deliver incredibleresults, but there is a finite
number of who you can servebecause there is a finite amount
of time in which you can servethose people.
We have 24 hours in a day, andyou probably don't want to be
(12:38):
working all 24 hours.
Like, we also are, I think wefind our way into
entrepreneurship because we arereally interested in more time
flexibility.
But what you can find is that,like, okay, you're super busy.
This is great, you're makingmoney, and yet why are you
working so hard?
Like, you may even be workingmore hours than you did in
(12:59):
corporate, and that is not thebusiness.
So we're looking at one-to-manyoffers, not getting rid of your
one-to-ones, but figuring outhow to incorporate one-to-many
offers so that you can multiplyyour resources.
We call these force multiplyingoffers, where you can serve many
people at one time, you saveyour time, and you can generate
(13:22):
potentially more income.
Um, you may already know thispiece of it, but this I really
like showing this slide to helpus start thinking through the
different kinds of offers we canhost in our offer suite in order
to maximize our time flexibilityand our financial flexibility.
(13:44):
So, you know about DIY products,right?
It's the lowest touch point, thelowest price point.
It's like a done for you coursewhere you just like click and
somebody checks out, right?
And then you don't, you're notworried about the live delivery
of it.
Um, somebody could just downloadit.
They can download a workbook,they do it on their own.
You're never really interfacingwith them beyond like maybe some
(14:07):
automated emails, but it'sreally like hands-off as far as
you are concerned.
That's really different than theother side of the scale or the
other side of the spectrum,which is DFY done for you, which
is where most of you probablyare in the process, right?
Because you're doing this likereally um hands-on client
(14:29):
one-to-one work where um you'reserving one client at a time.
So can you type in the chat?
I'm curious, those of you whoare joining us live, if you can
type your signature offer, thething that you are are offering
right now, which category doesthat fall into?
Like your main thing that you'remarketing.
Is it DIY done with you wherethe client does the work, but
(14:51):
you are guiding?
Maybe there's some liveinteraction.
It's usually a mid-price point.
Um, or is it done for you whereyou're doing all the work?
Okay.
Okay, so I see decorze dev,you're doing mostly DIY.
That's awesome.
Okay.
Um, the prepare and leader, hi.
(15:11):
We're doing done for you, JennyMagic, um, better change, done
with you, done with you, donefor you.
Okay, cool.
So many of us are falling intothese two categories.
And I would say my scalablegroup offer in my own business
is a done with you offer.
It is the highest price pointbecause our clients are getting
(15:33):
strategic consulting andsupport, but a lot of it is also
client driven.
Um, and it's usually these twoareas right here, done with you
and done for you, that you cancharge the highest amount for.
Um, and and still find somescalable, some scalability.
(15:53):
I think that's what I shouldsay.
The scalability in this donewith you area.
But group programs often um showup under DIY or done with you.
Okay, so here's just someexamples that you can you can
take a picture of this if youwant to, just sort of wrap your
head around it, right?
DIY pre-recorded, downloads,easily mass-produced products.
(16:16):
Um, books fall into a DIYcategory, like you're doing all
the work up front, and then itgoes for sale.
You're not going to make a tonof money with books, but it is a
good way to get your yearningout there done with you.
You can see it's a little bitmore intensive where your client
is doing some of the like a lotof the of the load, but you're
(16:37):
also there guiding.
And then done for you is likethe services you're used to.
Okay.
So why aren't more entrepreneurslaunching group offers?
I mean, I could have told youthis, this is, but this is an
actual stat from Teachable, alearning management software
that you have probablyparticipated on or seen or have
heard of from 2025.
(16:59):
It's um a fear of failure.
And I would actually go so faranecdotally, like I don't have
any staff on this, but just frommy own experience in working
with clients, it's a fear ofwhat if I put so much time and
energy into this and potentiallyfinancial investment and nobody
buys it.
And that's the big fear offailure.
(17:20):
Or what if I I blast this outeverywhere and only one person
signs up?
I mean, if you can relate, canyou type a me in the chat?
I'm curious if like you've everfelt like, yeah, I haven't done
this yet because I don't, Idon't want to invest all that
time and money if I don't knowit's actually gonna work.
I mean, that's that should beall of us, right?
(17:41):
Like, I don't want to investtime and money on something that
I'm not certain is gonna work.
So that is where the pre-salesstrategy comes in, right?
Because it's minimizing our riskof failure because you're
getting paid proof of conceptbefore you invest resources and
fully creating your program.
So if you have ever participatedin like quote, a beta round of
(18:05):
something for free, can you typea one in the chat?
If you've ever been aparticipant for free in a beta
test, quote unquote.
Um, if you have ever offered abeta test, like if you've
already if you've ever puttogether a product and you're
like, I'm gonna just offer thisfor free.
I need some people to go throughit to give me some feedback.
(18:27):
Can you type a two in the chat?
You've offered a free beta test.
Okay.
Yeah.
Sarah, thank you.
You're trying everything.
I mean, same.
I've done it both ways as well.
Um, been a participant in a freeone, and um a I'm gonna actually
go back to this slide for asecond, and um have hosted a
free one.
(18:48):
And the thing is, beta tests aregreat for you in theory.
It's keeping you busy.
You feel like, oh, great, I'mgetting some feedback in
exchange for people goingthrough this for free.
But what we sometimes, when whenwe're feeling really vulnerable
for doing something new, likelaunching a group program if
you've never done one before umand been successful at it, it
(19:09):
can feel like any feedback isgood feedback.
But here's the thing (19:12):
if you are not getting feedback in the form
of somebody willing to pay forthis idea, it's actually too
expensive a feedback.
Like you, it's not worth it.
The best feedback you can get issomebody saying, I will part
with my cash in order toexperience the thing that it is
(19:33):
that you're providing.
So offers that are pre-sold havea five times higher conversion
rate than offers that were notpre-sold, meaning that if you're
just out the gate saying, Thisthing is going to, you know,
join now and and we start Mondayor whatever.
(19:53):
You're cricket and nobody isready to start on Monday.
However, if you have planned away to really um get paid first,
then the the pre-sale actuallydoes its job to help you to have
a more successful launch.
So here are the three steps todesign and execute a profitable
(20:14):
pre-sale offer.
The first thing is don'treinvent the wheel, which is
really um reassuring, I think.
Step one is to start with whatyou're already doing, it lowers
the risk and increases yourprobability of success because
you know that with yourone-to-one clients, they are
already getting success becauseyou're using what you already
(20:35):
know or have and do, and you'renot starting anything from
scratch.
So, what that looks like issomething that you already have
practiced with your clientsexecuting, something that you've
already helped your clients getresults with.
Um, your people already know youfor doing this.
(20:56):
So maybe you have, you know,you're posting on LinkedIn, you
have an email list, you're doingyour marketing somewhere, maybe
you have a podcast, and youraudience that has gathered, no
matter their side, no matter thesize of your audience, sort of
have a feeling that this is,yeah, this is like kind of along
the same lines of what you'redoing.
(21:17):
And you're already getting paidto do it, it's just in a
different format.
So, some questions that you canask yourself to decide, okay,
well, there's no way I can teachmy entire process start to
finish that I'm doing with myclients.
It's it would take way too long,it's way too hard.
And I'm the one who has thelike, they're not interested in
(21:40):
coming to me to learn how todesign all this stuff
themselves, for example.
So, what can you teach from whatyou already do or a little
sliver of your process toquickly and profitably get
maximum results for your client?
So why do people come to you,but really?
(22:01):
Like, I would love for you toanswer this in the chat.
Like, people come to youprobably to do the thing on the
surface, but really they'rechoosing you because of the way
you're doing something.
So take a second and think aboutthat.
Why do people come to you?
I would say people come to mefor instructional design support
and marketing and messaging fortheir group program.
(22:24):
But why do they really come tome?
Why do they choose me overanother person offering
something similar?
Because none of us are like, Imean, I've I would be shocked if
any of us are doing somethingthat nobody in the world is
doing, right?
Um, I think people come to mereally because I have a teaching
background.
I think people come to me reallybecause I understand how
(22:46):
vulnerable it is to be an expertat one thing and being brand new
at another thing.
I think people come to me reallybecause I am an excellent coach
and they they know that they'regonna.
To be seen and not just anumber.
And I put a lot of energy intohelping my clients.
I just dumped a huge waterbottle.
(23:08):
Uh okay.
So Sarah says, I have found thatpeople come to me because their
leads are down, but they reallycome to me because I've been
there and experimented until Irebound, exactly rebounded.
And so they often I think thisis true of most people.
And this might be a question youhave to like kind of ponder
today as you're driving aroundor you're on your walk.
(23:29):
Ponder this.
Why do people come to you?
But really, why do they come toyou?
Um yeah, because you've been intheir shoes.
I think that's most people.
They want to feel like, am I uhnobody wants to be made to feel
like they're an idiot whenthey're down, right?
It's like I'm a smart person,but I'm experiencing a dip in
(23:50):
this area.
And so I think learning fromsomebody who has been there
before is really, really, reallypowerful for most people.
And I think that that'sreflected here in the chat.
Like Shannon is saying, becauseI have been in their shoes and
they trust me.
The prepare leader is sayingbecause I have experience in
supply chain.
So the training comes from aplace of empathy of what they're
(24:10):
going through.
Um, yes, all of this.
Um, Sarah says, people come tome because leads are coming in,
but they aren't letting enoughmeeting, they aren't getting
enough meetings with people toconvert them.
Okay, so you guys get it.
Here's um another question toask yourself.
When these people do come toyou, how are you helping them?
What are the steps in yourprocess from the moment that
(24:33):
your client pays?
What happens?
And map that out.
Now, I'm is that something thatyou all do, Sarah, Sarah Buck,
I'm asking you this.
Is that something that you likewhere you're mapping out a
process in booked in six?
Sorry to put you on the spot.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
I just realized I'm muted.
Um, what we do inside booked outin six, the first thing is a
booked out blueprint.
And we map, yeah, we map outwhat our offer suite looks like.
What does that staircase looklike?
Yeah.
From the lead magnet all the wayto the upgrade offer.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
Yep.
Okay.
And then once somebody actuallyis working with you within that
offer, do you cover that, like,does do you help your clients
map out what that process lookslike, or is that on the client
to like already know that?
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Like their framework.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Their framework, but like the second somebody checks
out, what's the next thing thathappens?
They get an email.
What's the next thing thathappens?
They have like an intake call oror something, like, and then how
do they have a delivery system?
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Yeah, they're with the working on that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Okay.
So what I have found in workingwith um many solopreneurs,
experts in their field, is thatthey have not yet documented the
process.
And maybe, maybe they have like,in so much as that they've
automated some of the pieces,but like their own process of
(26:06):
sitting and listening with to aclient, figuring out what the
problem is, and then underdiagnosing and understanding
what the solution is, and thenexecuting on that solution.
If you have not mapped out thatprocess for yourself after the
client pays, this is a piece ofhomework for tonight or for
(26:26):
whenever you have a second.
Okay.
Um, because your group programis somewhere in that process,
most likely, if you're notalready sure what it is that you
could be teaching.
Um, so those are the questions.
Why did it come to you really?
How are you helping people?
And what results do they getafter they work with you?
(26:48):
Okay, here's a couple otherquestions that you want to ask
yourself.
And you can totally takepictures of these slides if
that's helpful for you.
But what's the most challengingpart of your process for your
client?
I when I first started um in myfirst group program, I was
teaching, this is back in 2013.
So internet grandma dinosaur,like I said, I was teaching
(27:09):
people how to developrelationships on Instagram, not
dating relationships, like fortheir product-based businesses.
And um it, I actually thought,what a stupid idea.
Why would anybody pay for that?
And it was actually theencouragement of a friend that
said, you've grown your brand onInstagram, and so many of us are
(27:30):
out here struggling, have noidea what to do.
How are you getting all of thesecollaborations?
Blah, blah, blah.
And I said, I don't know.
So I wrote out what I was doingon Instagram.
And I gave her an email that hadlike 20 steps in it.
And she goes, This is a goldmine.
(27:51):
You need to package this up,make it pretty, and sell it as a
course.
And I'm like, what a dumb idea.
Who cares about Instagram?
Like, this is so stupid, right?
Don't ask me to predict thefuture.
I know nothing.
Uh and so I did this, and thatcourse was delivered so simply,
(28:13):
may I tell you?
It was one email a day,automated on MailChimp for 21
days.
The original price was$47 in itslife cycle, it peaked at I think
$127.
And that one email delivered onea day for 21 days, the 21-day
(28:34):
Insta course netted a quarter ofa million dollars for myself.
I mean, it wasn't all at once,and I have three kids, so it
didn't get very far.
But still, that that's like notthat's not a little bit amount
of money.
And it ran for three years.
Okay.
It was very cheap.
I had thousands of people whowent through it.
(28:55):
And the reason that I'm bringingthis up is because I tested
first, would anybody want itbefore I ever made a lesson?
I said, here's about what you'regonna learn.
And there were enough people inthe market who said, I want
that, that as the emails weregoing the first time around, I
(29:18):
was like, okay, well, I knowwhat day one is.
I better go write that email soI can send it out on day one.
Like that's literally how I didit.
I was just like a couple daysahead of everybody else and got
and got great feedback and thenreiterated.
Okay, so what I found duringthat process is that I had
assumed that anybody who wascoming into my Instagram course
(29:38):
would have an understanding ofwho they were selling to.
They would have an understandingof their ideal client because
they had a business.
And that was on day two.
That tripped up like 95% ofparticipants.
I had no idea that that wasgoing to be a stumbling point.
I bet there's something in yourprocess that is super like it's
(29:59):
the hump to get over for yourclients.
And if you can't think of that,like, does anybody have a uh
something in their head whereyou're like, this is definitely
the hump for my clients?
Like, this is the one hard part.
Like, I can already identify.
If you can identify it, I wantto know.
Like, just say yes, I canidentify what that hump is.
I know what the most challengingpiece of my whole process is.
(30:22):
That might be a mini course inthere.
It's the thing that you wishedwould make the process so much
easier when they're working withyou at a higher level.
If they would have done thatthing or completed that thing or
known that thing before theycame to you, it could be like a
prerequisite course that peopleare taking so that when they do
(30:47):
um accelerate to your highestoffer, uh the highest rung on
your offer ladder, they willalready have that understanding
and that knowledge because theyhave practiced that one
component or they've gatheredthose components to be able to
hit the ground running when theyget to that highest paid offer.
That's a great solution for acourse for you, or a course, or
(31:10):
a training program, or somethinglike a group learning
experience, where it's just onelittle sliver of the entire
process.
So that's something to think on.
Okay, so that's all step one iswhat is the thing gonna be,
right?
Is to really understand what itis that you're you're gonna do.
Step two is designing a minimumviable product.
This is just basic like businessspeak and MVP, but your MVP is
(31:34):
the shortest, smallest, mostcompact thing that will is quick
and easy to launch, that you canactually generate active market
data, meaning like you alreadyknow where those ideal clients
for that particular product orthat particular um um group
(31:54):
offer are gathered.
Like you actually have a market.
Um, it you know you can beprofitable from doing it, like
because it's not going to bethis really big, overblown 12
module.
I need to get a whole productioncrew and rent a studio so I look
so good and get hair and makeup,like that's way too much
overhead for a minimum viableproduct that can come down the
(32:18):
line if you if you so choose.
And then you're able to actuallygenerate real results for your
clients in a short amount oftime for one tiny little thing.
You're solving one tiny littleproblem for people.
So, in the the example of thatInstagram course that I was
talking about, it was quick andeasy to launch because it was
delivered via MailChimp over 21days.
(32:39):
It was all the way automated.
It was, I was able to generateactive market data because I was
around a lot of otherproduct-based business owners.
I had already networked in theircommunities and they weren't
buying my jewelry, but I hadsomething I could teach them.
So a ton of my friends, ton ofthe people in the Facebook
groups I was in, telling peoplethat I was networked with
(32:59):
locally in my hometown, wereproduct-based businesses and
they were all very interested inalso growing their brand on
social media.
And then can I can it beprofitable?
Yes, it was just I was alreadypaying for MailChimps.
So it was just my time and itwasn't that much time to begin
with.
And then was I able to generatereal results?
Well, absolutely.
(33:20):
Like if they did these things,they would find success.
So that that was all okay,check, check, check.
There's my MVP.
It minimizes your risk bystarting with a small but stable
foundation to build upon.
So a paid workshop is a grouplearning experience.
Let's say you have a hundredpeople paying you a hundred
dollars for a workshop that youdeliver in one hour.
(33:44):
That is multiplying your timeand really multiplying your
money.
And it's only taking an hour forthe delivery of it.
You see, so a paid workshop is areally good, like juicy group
offer.
A short email course, like Isaid about that, the 21-day
Insta course was great becauseit's not requiring a ton of
overhead.
You can do the work once andtest, like it are is anybody
(34:06):
even gonna sign up for this?
And if once they do, then youcan go ahead and build that
thing.
Okay.
So your MVP is actually yourbridge of success.
And you probably already knowthis because you've designed
offers before, but I think thevisual is really good.
So where the client for yourminimum viable product is right
(34:28):
now is their point A.
And your job with this grouplearning experience is to get
them to point B, which is wherethey want to go, their future
status, what they've alreadyaccomplished, what they've been
able to do.
And that bridge of success iswhere your offer lies.
And so, Sarah, this is great.
(34:48):
MVP examples would be bootcamps, challenges, workshops,
email course, anything thatlike, even if it's a small, like
like in like an audio training,like it can be really, really
tiny.
Um, it can be, it can even belike a robust workbook or
something with like an audio.
(35:09):
I've done that before where I'vehad like a little audio link
inside of a PDF that sort ofwalks people through what a
process is in a PDF.
Like there's so many ways todeliver to many people at once
in a very small and containedway.
So these are questions along thebridge of success that you're
(35:30):
gonna want to ask yourself.
The first one is what steps doesdo your participants need to
take to arrive at point B?
And you're going to backward mapfrom there.
That's how you map out your MVP.
In what format can they bestlearn those steps?
We have a client who coaches ummiddle-of-the-pack marathon
runners who want to get better.
(35:51):
And at first, he was like,Here's my MVP.
I can do it in four modules, butum each of my modules is gonna
be about an hour recording.
And I need a uh learningmanagement software.
So I gotta pay for that and loadall my modules in.
And we're like, no, runnersdon't want to be sitting in
(36:11):
front of a computer to learnfrom a coach and then go run.
So instead, we are going to makethis into an audio series so the
runners can have this in theirears as they're running and you
are in their ears.
So you gotta really be thinkingabout who you're building this
for and what format is best forthem.
(36:32):
We we work with people who say,Oh, my ideal client are busy
moms.
And so I am going to create thislike very robust training
series.
And it's like if they're busy,they they don't have like
there's gonna be kids hanging onand they can't sit there and
learn in this way.
So really be thinking about whatis happening in your MVP's life
(36:52):
in order for them to be able toconsume this content and
actually get results.
Because I'm certain you have allbought a course that sat on your
hard drive and you never touchedit.
I have, I certainly have manythousands of dollars worth
because I think, you know what,this time is gonna be different.
And you know what the result is?
(37:13):
I end up feeling bad aboutmyself and I don't ever spend
with that person again because Ifeel guilty or ashamed that I
wasn't able to um manage all ofthe things I needed to manage.
And it's because it wasn'tdesigned really for me to be
able to manage it.
All that that, like I don'tthink that course creators are
(37:34):
nefarious by nature, but we doreally leave something out when
we're not considering who's theend user and how are they best
going to learn, right?
So think about how long of atimeline do I actually need to
get people from point A to pointB.
For my email Instagram course, Isaid 21 days.
It's like a little bit of ahabit.
(37:54):
We're gonna do one tiny littlething each day for 21 days.
And um, it was the perfectamount of time because people
weren't so like, I only have sixmore weeks of this thing to go
through.
And then I'm done.
It was like quick, easy, wecould do it on the fly.
You don't have to like carve outa bunch of time to do it.
Um, let price point is a win foreveryone.
(38:17):
So you definitely want to priceit at a at a price point that is
good for you for sure.
But thinking about like theformat contributes to the
positioning of it, the um thesimplicity contributes to the
positioning.
So pricing is such a huge,gnarly conversation for each
(38:41):
individual, but this issomething to really consider.
Like, how do you price it lowenough that it is a really
juicy, great offer and reallydelivers on a promise?
Because this is probably a lowerprice point than working with
you at the very top rung of youroffer ladder, which is your
(39:04):
one-to-one, because it's there,because your clients will be
getting the most access to youin a one-to-one situation.
So if your um group program is adone with you or a DIY, it needs
to be positioned in a way thatmakes sense with your entire
offer suite.
So your one-to-one is thehighest.
So sometimes our clients arelike, well, my one-to-ones are
(39:26):
$500 an hour and I want to sellthis program for$1,500.
And it's like, okay, well, thenyou're gonna need to bump up
your one-to-one situationbecause it doesn't make, you
know, like you don't want youroffers cannibalizing each other.
So these are all conversationsthat that you know come down the
line.
And then how can I use thisasset?
I'm sorry, how can I use this asan asset for other offers?
(39:48):
We always want to think about inour client journey what's gonna
come next for our people.
Is it an upsell?
Is it a down sell?
Is it okay now you've gottenthis?
If you want to join thecommunity where we're having
these ongoing conversations,there's lots of different ways
to do that.
So this is one of our umclients, Dr.
Christine Coleman, and she is apsychotherapist, a nonprofit
(40:11):
founder, an executive coach forum women of color leaders.
And um, when she joined herincubator or incubator, she was
um seeing clients justone-to-one.
And the most she could chargefor an hour of her services was
$150 an hour because that's whatlike the market could bear.
That's like therapy in her umwhere she was living.
(40:35):
And she's like, I I can't havelike she had two little kids at
the time.
She couldn't have enough$150 anhour clients in a week in order
to have this like verysustainable business without
completely depleting her.
So she decided to create thisleadership program for women of
color leaders.
And then she priced it at$2,000for her first round.
(40:59):
She got 10 people to sign up.
She made$20,000 and shedelivered it one hour a week for
six weeks in the evening whenher when her husband was home
taking care of the kids, youknow, after he had gotten home
from work.
So it was flexible for her time.
It worked with her life, itworked with the clients.
It was only six weeks.
It was$2,000 with a reallywonderful um promise.
(41:21):
Like her point B was somethingthat these women really wanted.
And she made$20,000 in her firstlunch.
Now, I don't know about you, but$20,000 is a lot of money.
And you might be making thatalready with your one-to-one
clients.
And you're like, okay, so I justneed to book another one-to-one.
But I want you to be thinkingabout how much time it took her
(41:41):
to earn that$20,000.
Because even if you have reallyhigh-ticket offers in your offer
suite, um, now she's deliveringone hour for six weeks, and that
becomes six hours total.
And then she was making$20,000because she's delivering it to
many people at once.
(42:02):
So this is where that time andum financial flexibility come
into play.
All right, the third step ingetting paid is um to make sure
your pre-side your, I'm sorry,your pre-sale is simple, quick,
and agile.
Um, and so what that means isthat you only actually need
three things to quickly andeffectively take your MVP to
(42:25):
market.
You need a way to connect, youneed a way to collect, and you
need a way to deliver.
So connecting would be where areyou going to talk about this?
I was talking to Sarah before wegot on live, and um, she was
saying that she was um sharingthis on this workshop on Meetup.
What a great! Like, I I don'tknow why I never even thought to
(42:48):
put our free workshops up onMeetup.
It's just like a whole newmarket of people who are looking
for something that they don'tknow about you yet.
So that's a great place.
Oh, maybe you're connecting withpeople on LinkedIn or on
Instagram or TikTok or Facebookor in your local networking
groups or wherever it is thatyou're gathering people, you
need a way to connect becauseyou need people for a business,
(43:09):
right?
You need a way to collect, youneed your a payment processor,
some sort of checkout page or acheckout link.
It could be as simple as like aPayPal link or a Venmo business
link.
I mean, I don't love Venmo forbusiness, but that's that's a
whole different conversation.
But like I'm sure you alreadyhave a payment processor in
place.
And then you need an a way todeliver your thing.
(43:32):
So is that via audio clip thatyou hook up to your Google Drive
and you send a link out?
Is it via email?
Is it on a live workshop?
How are you gonna deliver thisthing to people?
Is it like some sort of digitaldownload that gets emailed out
to people?
Those are the three things youneed.
That's it.
It's so simple.
It's like simpler than simple.
(43:54):
Connect, collect, deliver.
Remember those three.
Um, this is our client, Missy,and Missy has um, she is a
crafting influencer.
If you didn't know that that wasa thing, man, it is a thing.
She came to us and she's alongtime client.
She actually, I first met her inmy Instagram course in 2013.
(44:15):
And then she joined our impactincubator in 2023, 10 years
later.
And she was, she didn't tap in.
She was making, she was handmaking birds and gnomes and like
home decor stuff, um, andshipping it out.
And she was doing well, like,you know, 10, 15 grand a month
in handmade goods.
(44:35):
Well, she came to us and she'slike, I love you guys, but I uh
I can't I can't make the time tooffer some sort of course.
I am so busy making and shippingall of these things.
Well, we're like, give us anhour for three weeks and we're
gonna set up like some testingoffers.
(44:55):
We're gonna help you get paid tocreate your membership.
So she came.
So she's like, okay, what do Ihave to do?
We're like, you have to get aZoom account because you're
going to present on Zoom.
She's like, oh, okay.
She didn't have a Zoom accountof her own, right?
So she paid for a Zoom account.
And then we said, we're going torun this workshop.
How much do you think yourpeople will pay for this
workshop?
(45:16):
It's so long where you'reselling and they're selling with
you.
She goes, I don't know.
Why don't we do less than 20?
We're like, great, 17 bucks.
She sold out all 100 seats thatshe had on Zoom, sold out within
like an hour, and she made$1,700for a paid workshop.
She's like, um, and I don't haveto ship any product.
(45:36):
Okay.
So she did the sew along.
She's like, let's try that againnext week.
She did it again.
She charged like$22, I think.
Um, a hundred people sold out.
She bumped up her Zoom room tolike$300 and she made a few
thousand dollars.
She's like, you guys, what isgoing on?
I've never made money thiseasily before.
We're like, yeah, because you'reserving many people at once
(45:58):
instead of like this personorders a bird that they paid$40
for, and you have to go andstitch it, and then you have to
go and shift it.
Like, oh my gosh, it was socrazy.
So we took these workshops andused those as the basis.
She got paid up front to createthis membership by testing out
(46:19):
paid products, little tiny paidproducts.
So these sew alongs went into amembership and it became the
foundation of a$39 a monthmembership where people will get
online and sew with her.
In her first launch, she sold445 seats to this membership and
she made$52,000 in recurringrevenue with like all the
(46:43):
different price packages thatshe had in her first launch
because she had gotten paidfirst.
She didn't go and pre-record awhole bunch of things and load
them up onto some membershipplatform.
She didn't even have, she wasn'teven paying for Zoom until it
was necessary, right?
So this is the result of havingan MVP first and getting paid
(47:04):
before you create your program.
So here's three things youabsolutely do not need to get
paid.
Pre-recorded content, that'snumber one.
Don't do it.
Please, please don't do it.
I actually just turned away aclient yesterday who was
considering working with us.
And then she was started likefor what she wanted.
She was really, I'll just saylike nickel and diming and
(47:26):
seeing how much we could, howmuch work we could do for free.
And I don't even entertain thatat this point anymore.
Right.
And I was like, no, she's like,except I've already invested so
much on my studio.
I've already re you know,pre-recorded all the stuff.
I'm like, ah, like I wish youwould talk to us first.
Like we would have told you,don't do that.
(47:47):
Go sell it first.
And then you can get all fancy,as fancy as you want.
You do not need a fancy salespage.
I have seen multiple people sellfrom a social media post, from a
Google Doc, from just linking acheckout page to a simple
workshop.
Like you don't need a full-blownsales system at this point.
(48:08):
And you definitely don't need alarge audience.
You do need an audience, and youdo need to have in your mind
that you have um created thisfor a very particular person and
have real life people in yournetwork that you know of who
would need this.
That I think is the biggestpredictor to whether or not
(48:29):
you're going to get paid, andthen whether or not it's worth
it for you to have a groupoffer.
So here's a recap (48:34):
you're gonna start with doing what you are
already doing, really examiningwhat is your process and what
can I excavate out of thatprocess in order to create this
little sliver of an MVP.
You're gonna design your MVPoffer with your ideal client in
mind.
Always, always, what is the endresult for your learner and
(48:55):
what's in it for them?
That's number two.
And number three, you're gonnaexecute a really agile launch.
You're gonna keep it supersimple, really compact, really
small, and you don't need toinvest in any fancy stuff at the
beginning.
Um, okay.
So here's your to-do list to getpaid.
Know what you're selling andknow that what problem it
solves.
That's business 101, right?
(49:17):
Know who you're gathering.
I mean, who you're selling toand where they gather.
Sarah was talking about this inmy community um last week.
It's the same idea.
Like, where do these peoplegather?
Do you want to go and speak inother communities?
You want to do a podcast tour?
Who are you selling to?
Where do they gather?
Talk about what people will get.
What's in it for them?
That needs to be number one.
(49:38):
What is in it for them?
I mean, not number one, but likereally top of mind.
And then put a start date on thecalendar ahead of time.
So what you can say is um uhdoors are open for this
workshop.
It will happen on April 17th, amonth from now, and you start
talking about it and seeing howmany people start paying.
(49:59):
If nobody on April 17th has paidyou, that's really good
feedback.
Nobody wants it.
Or your messaging is off, or theoffer isn't right, or the
community that you're selling itto isn't right, but then there's
no skin off your back becauseyou haven't even done the
workshop yet, right?
You haven't invested your timeor your energy or your money
(50:20):
really.
It's only that you put a date onthe calendar and you start
talking about it.
So that is something I reallywant you to cultivate that like
mindset of you're just alwaysrunning experiments in your
business.
If that if something doesn'twork, it doesn't mean you suck
or you have failed.
It just means, okay, well, thisidea didn't land.
So what needs to be tinkeredwith as a scientist?
(50:43):
If an experience, like if yourhypothesis does not give you
that result, you go back to thedrawing board or you make a new
hypothesis and then you run anew experiment.
And that is what we're alwaysdoing here in Disney.
So that brings us to the nextpiece of the puzzle.
And so I have actually a freemini course that you're welcome
to download.
It's at standfortheand.com slashsold out.
(51:06):
That QR code should point you toit.
It's totally free.
There's a really robust workbookin there.
Um, it'll help, you know, answersome of the questions that we
talked about in this training.
But sold out offer system isreally looking at your entire
offer suite, so inclusive ofthose one-to-ones that you
already have booked out.
And then how do you make surethat your offers are talking to
(51:27):
one another and that you feelconfident in selling those
offers, in particular your groupprograms?
So it's for people who are readyto scale beyond where they
already are and to diversifytheir income streams with, you
know, multiple streams ofincome.
And this is another piece of thepuzzle that Angela, my
co-founder, and I really workwith our clients on because we
(51:50):
want there's been so many weirdshifts in quote, you know,
capital, all caps, the market,right?
2020, when everything shut down,man, online learning.
Like that's when many of you mayhave gone into this crazy world
of digital marketing andleaving, you know, like your
corporate positions or your moretraditional roles and jumping
(52:13):
into this online space that likewe saw saw a lot of people
doing.
And so the market was likepopping.
It was hot for B2C.
And then people started goingback to work, people started
getting a little zoomed out, andthe market kind of shifted, and
people were getting more savvy,and they're like, oh my gosh,
I've spent so much money on allthese other things and didn't
get what I was promised.
And so what used to work wasn'tworking anymore, right?
(52:37):
And so we're always like, okay,if but if you have diverse
streams of income in yourbusiness and you have a full
offer ladder, when one bit ofyour market shifts, you have
more stability because you'relike a table, you know,
essentially that has four legsinstead of one main whale of a
client.
If they cancel their contract,you're not you're not out to
(53:01):
see, you know, like you canstill survive.
So we really want to encourageum different income streams
within your business, and thesold-out offer system helps you
do that.
So it's totally free.
Check it out if that soundsinteresting.
That's sort of like the nextstep after this.
And yeah, that's all I've got.
So I'd so happy to answer anyquestions or um any comments,
(53:26):
any feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (53:27):
Thank you so much.
So everybody, drop yourquestions as they come.
I have a couple of questions foryou that I'll start off with.
Okay.
Um, so one question I get allthe time is what if I only sell
one or two spots in my MVP?
Do you go on?
(53:48):
Do you set a limit like I needto sell five in order for it to
it to go on?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:54):
Okay, so the great news is that you're your own
boss and you get to decidewhatever you want.
And the hard news is that you'reyour own boss, and sometimes you
don't know what the heck youwant.
So um, there have been timeswhere I put something out there
and one or two people havepurchased, and I go on as if
there were one or two hundredpeople who have purchased
(54:17):
because I want that video asset.
Like if it's a workshop, forexample.
Yeah.
I want to record myself.
I want to be on and presentingwithout, like, and at least,
like, let's say it's$100.
I'm making$200 now to record avideo that I can go and use
somewhere else.
Like I could use it in mymarketing.
(54:38):
It could be the basis of like Ican go and live in a community
somewhere else, and then I wouldgo and try again.
So I'm of the mindset if you gotpaid, you got paid.
Like, go for it, go do it.
It might be not as many peopleas you want, but it's still
you're creating content foryourself.
And you still got paid$200 to doit.
(54:58):
When what's the alternative?
Getting paid nothing.
So I don't know.
That's sort of my mindset.
It's better to get paid by oneor two and definitely don't
cancel.
If people want to give youmoney, give them what they paid
for.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (55:12):
Maybe I had it where one person bought and it was
more of a hot seat situation.
So I ended up converting themover to a consulting call.
And they ended up upgrading intomy main offer.
So it worked out.
But I've had that too where likesomething has sold out and then
another thing where one personbought, and I'm like, well, what
(55:35):
do I do now?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
That's such a great question.
I just I love um the it to me, Ialways want to offer the person
who goes, listen, I trust youenough that I forked over$100
for this or$5,000 or howevermuch the offer is.
I want to deliver so hard forthat person.
(55:58):
And then I love the idea then ofyou know, developing a
relationship.
So maybe they do end up in likemaybe it's a trial.
They're trying to figure out doI even like how this person
works?
And by turning them away, youmay turn away a potential
one-to-one high highest ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's exactly whatwould have happened with that
person who bought like the onehot seat and then she ended up
working with me for like a year.
SPEAKER_01 (56:25):
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Oh, and okay, the preparedleader.
I'm sorry I don't know your yourreal name, but I don't think
that's Dre Given A.
Um, your birth certificate.
Yeah.
The prepared leader, um, which Ilove that.
Um, so since knowledge is ateveryone's fingertips these
days, have you seen a shift inthe success of selling knowledge
and expertise?
The answer is totally, I have.
(56:47):
And that's a good question.
Yes, it's a great question.
Tanya.
Oh, hi Tanya.
Hi, Tanya.
And then how do you express toclients how offers like these
add value beyond anything AI canprovide?
Okay, so I feel like these areconnected questions.
And I love, love, love this.
So in the past, I would saypre-AI, um, the course slash
(57:12):
learning industry, there was alot of B2C stuff that um AI can
turn out now in 25 seconds forfree.
Like a free version of Chat GPTcould give you all the steps
that you needed.
And you don't have to pay aninfluencer$2,500 for 12 weeks of
your time, right?
(57:32):
So you may have noticed thatthat industry has shifted
dramatically, like even in thelast six months, where these big
main course creators are like,well, and now we're not gonna do
courses anymore.
And you're like, wait, what?
Like lots of famous people haveinternet famous people have
(57:52):
pulled their courses.
And I can tell you why.
And I I have not seen thisanywhere, but I guarantee, like,
I would be willing to put moneyon this is that their sales have
tanked because people got savvyand said, Well, ChatGPT, could
you just create this into acourse for me?
(58:14):
And so, how do we still developprograms that people understand
are not just um an AIexperience?
And that actually happens to beum as like how you are willing
to show up.
(58:36):
And it doesn't necessarily haveto be lie, but the the thing
that's happening with AI is thatmore than ever people want the
human touch.
And I'm sure you've seen thattoo.
It's like, okay, I can very welltell when this is written by AI
and when this is um generated bya real human being.
(58:58):
And so I personally want tolearn from somebody who has been
in my shoes, from somebody whohas had this experience so that
I can ask questions.
So as a learner, I'm actuallypretty savvy now, where I'll
say, like, I won't buy anythingthat I don't have at least the
ability to ask the creatorquestions.
(59:19):
They don't have to be therelive, but I need to know, like,
can I can I email you something?
And I'm willing to pay moreactually for that experience.
Because remember at thebeginning, I said, why do people
come to you?
And so many of you said, becauseI've been there and I know how
to navigate that and I know howto be resilient and find my way
out of that.
(59:40):
That is what people are payingyou for.
It's not as much the steps, it'sthe like people don't want to be
alone.
They don't want to do things ontheir own.
And it's really, reallyvulnerable to learn anything
new.
And so when you can show up asan expert in your field and mix
that empathy of like, hey, Iknow what I'm talking about.
(01:00:04):
You don't yet know about thisthing that I know, and I'm here
to bridge that gap human tohuman, people are absolutely
still willing to pay for that.
And I would say that probablythe DIY market has suffered the
most.
Um, but the Dunwicking market, Ithink it's popping.
So any any and which is greatnews because you can charge more
(01:00:25):
for that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:26):
Yeah, I will second this because I've been buying
more courses lately, but only ifthey're paired with like async
coaching.
Can I DM with with them?
Can I email with them?
Will they send me a Loomfeedback?
I'm looking for those pieces.
And I also like when they havecustom trained AI assistance to
(01:00:49):
help me create things fasterwithin that course.
So I'm always looking for likethose three things together when
I'm purchasing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:57):
Yeah, I concur a hundred percent.
I love um the point that youbring up about feedback because
a lot of the DIY courses andwhite people have such a sour
taste in their mouth after likea decade or so of these being
like the really hot items thatall of the internet celebrities
have told us that we need tohave in our offer suites and
(01:01:19):
that many of us have taken andspent money on, is that you're
creating like you're you'retaking their slides and or their
information, and then you'recreating an isolation or you're
you're implementing inisolation.
And that is the worst way thatwe like we as humans don't learn
best like that.
We learn best in community wherewe have like if you think about
(01:01:42):
like your own life as a student,you had somebody telling you,
hey, a little bit to you know,or like coaching basketball, a
little bit that's wrong.
Yeah, that's wrong.
Or here, let me show you how todo it right.
And so we we that market isstill absolutely popping.
So I wouldn't I wouldn't worryabout that.
(01:02:03):
I know we're at time, so I'm Idon't want to go over too much.
Um, but I would love any otherquestions if you have a second.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:09):
Yes, we are at time.
We'll stand for a couple ofminutes.
And I just want to add to thatpoint, if your course also has a
Slack channel with it as acompanion, that's another way
that you can bring thatcommunity in and you can
interact with each other.
Because, like as you weresaying, people don't want to
(01:02:30):
learn in isolation, but alsolike this world that we're in,
most of us here are soloconsultants, it's lonely.
So anytime you can find acommunity where you guys are
going after that same goal andyou can interact, it's going to
add an extra element to thatgroup offer.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:48):
Agreed.
Um a lot of times people willmake the argument like, I can't
provide the same level of umsupport in a group that I can
one-to-one with people.
And somehow a group learningexperience is diluted from your
one-to-one.
And I could not disagree withthat more.
(01:03:08):
I have found that we, as humans,we are social beings and to
learn in community with otherpeople is a really, really
powerful experience.
And you probably haveexperienced it before where
you've been in a program andyou've made a friend for life.
(01:03:28):
Right?
Like think about your exactly,or college or you know, in your
master's programs.
Or I said one time I told mygirlfriend the best part about
paying$40,000 for a master's.
Yes, I thought it was a greatdegree, but I got you as a
friend because we got to gothrough it together and we
wouldn't have met otherwise.
And so there's there's so muchbenefit that comes of learning
(01:03:51):
as as a group, you know, andjust working that out together.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm 100% with you on that.
Sometimes I have joinedcommunities that I don't
actually need because the peoplein that community, I wanted
access to them.
I wanted to get to know them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:07):
I love that you bring that up.
That's a really strategic way ofputting yourself in the rooms
that you want to be in.
And that is a huge part ofbusiness as well.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
Well, it looks like we answeredall the questions.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
You were amazing.
This was incredibly helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:25):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for having me.
And if anybody has anyquestions, uh, find me on
LinkedIn.
I'm at Melissa Camillary.
Um, and there's not that many ofus in the world.
So C A Miller I.
Here's just a note about thecourse.
Thank you.
So join yes, lowercase, typelowercase.
I didn't realize that that wascase sensitive, but it's
(01:04:45):
standfortheand.com slash soldout.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:51):
Awesome.
All right, I'm ending thestream.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
If this episode made things feela little more doable, I'd love
to help you take the next stepwith the booked out blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
(01:05:19):
Hey there, fellow founders.
Are you looking to unlock thesecrets behind rapid business
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And trust me, you don't want tomiss out on the next one.
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my uh six mission program, that397 is fully credited.
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Welcome to the Tiny MarketingPodcast.
I'm Serena Block.
This show is made for soloconsultants who want to get
booked out without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
(00:46):
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
fits into your life.
So growth feels doable insteadof overwhelming.
Hello.
Hi, what a great car.
I know I want to love that song.
So thank you everyone who'sjoining today.
(01:06):
This is Melissa, and she is theco-founder of the Impact
Incubator.
She helps booked-out soulopeners and microbusinesses add
one-to-many group learningexperiences to their offer.
And I'm super excited because wereally align on the fact that
you should always pre-sell youroffers before you build them.
(01:28):
Don't waste your time.
Don't waste your time.
No.
Today we are going to get intohow to get paid to create your
group program.
And I know a lot of you, atleast the people in Booked Out
and Six, you're experiencingthat where you're starting to
get to that point where you needa group offer in order to scale
(01:51):
higher than your booked outpoint, and you don't know what
the next step is.
And this is it.
So I'm going to remove myselfand give Melissa the stage, and
I'll add your presentation rightnow.
SPEAKER_01 (02:04):
Amazing.
Thank you so much for having me,Sarah.
I'm super excited to chat withall of you about there are very
few hills that I'm willing todie on.
But this one is that if I could,I just wrote this on LinkedIn.
If I could shake every creatoror slowpreneur, um, small
business owner, consultant whogets this idea, you know what?
(02:25):
I should create a group program.
I should create a course.
I should create, I should host aretreat, I should blah, blah,
blah, whatever.
Um, I wish I could shake peopleby the shoulders and say, first
get paid and then go and createit.
Um, and so this is one of thosehells that I'm willing to die at
because if I had a dime foreverybody who came to me at some
point and said, well, this wouldhave been great, but you know,
(02:49):
I've already spent tens ofthousands of dollars and a whole
year of my life trying to putsomething together.
Oh my gosh, like it just breaksmy heart.
So this is get paid to createyour program.
This is um a training that myco-founder, Angela Greaser, and
I um get most requested becauseit is such a um a prevalent
(03:11):
topic.
So I'm curious to know a littlebit about why you are here, what
made you sign up for thistraining?
So if you could type in the chatthe number which is most
reflective of you.
So, number one, you're aconsultant or a coach or an
author, agency owner, speaker,strategist, designer, et cetera,
et cetera, looking for a new wayto monetize or expand your work
(03:31):
beyond just more one-to-one.
Because if you're working withSarah already, you're booked or
nearly booked, and you only haveso many hours in a day, right?
So you don't want to hire morestaff necessarily.
You're just not sure how you canlike create maybe more blank
space on your calendar and ormore financial flexibility.
Um, or is it number two, youhave a successful business and
(03:53):
have thought about creating agroup offer, but haven't really
been able to divert resources toactually make it happen, meaning
you're so in the weeds with yourclients that to think about
like, okay, now how am I goingto siphon off some time in order
to create this thing?
Like, you just haven't reallywrapped your head around that
yet.
Or is it number three?
You're an expert in your fieldand you've tried launching some
(04:15):
sort of group learningexperience in the past, but you
haven't gotten the results orthe clients you needed, and it
left you feeling a little bitdeflated.
Or number four, something else.
And if it's something else, Iwould love to know what that
thing is.
So um, Sarah, I oh wait, oh,there we go.
Now I can see the comments.
Okay.
Um hey, so lots of ones.
(04:36):
This is great.
So when Sarah and I came up withthat, you know, that we were
gonna do this training umtogether, we thought that that
might be the case, that you'realready to a point where you're
getting booked out.
And it's like, all right, nowwhat is the next step?
And we we definitely believethat this is the next right
step.
So a little bit about how I gothere.
(04:57):
This is also a picture of me,obviously, but also with my
co-founder Angela.
And we're actually teachersfirst.
Both of us, uh, our educationalbackground is as educators.
We're both credential teachers.
And we ended up leaving theclassroom in at different points
in our career to focus more onum building our own business,
(05:17):
but we never left the teachingpart behind.
So, together, we have 28 yearsin digital marketing and
entrepreneurship.
I started a business as afundraiser for college
scholarships to my students backin 2011.
So we like to call ourselves theinternet dinosaur grandmas of
the world because we were whenwe first started online, having
(05:39):
businesses online, we were doingour marketing through blogging.
I mean, but this ispre-Instagram, pre-TikTok, pre-I
mean, maybe LinkedIn was around,but certainly not really for the
greater economy.
It was very corporate, if it waseven around at the time.
So we really focused onblogging.
So you can tell, like we'vewe've seen a thing or two in
digital marketing.
(05:59):
And together, we have generatedor helped our clients generate
over$60 million in revenue.
Um, some of those clients havebeen really big name internet
celebrities that you probablyhave heard of, that maybe you've
taken some of their courses.
Um, and lots and lots ofone-to-one clients who are maybe
(06:21):
like the unknown rock star, theundercover rock stars, you know,
in their industry, where they'resort of flying but below the
radar, and more people need toknow about their good work.
We continue to meet more andmore people who fell into that
category.
Like, have you met so-and-so?
Oh my gosh, she's so smart.
She published a bit about suchand such, whatever, and she's
(06:42):
still working with people onlyone-on-one.
It's time to expand.
And so that is our sweet spot ofthe people who we work with have
a really great idea.
They worked plenty in one-on-onescenario.
So they've already tested theirIP plenty of times.
They know their process works.
And now it's like, how do we getthis to reach more people in a
(07:02):
way that allows us to worktogether as you know, work to
have your clients work togetherthrough something as a group?
There's lots and lots ofdifferent models.
You've probably experienced someof them as a learner yourself.
So we do this through what wecall our impact framework.
And this is just um setting thestage for how you get paid.
But what Angela and I focus onin our impact incubator, which
(07:26):
is our signature program, is westart with intentional
instructional design.
That does not mean we'rebuilding out modules, we're
hiring a video crew to recordourselves reading a script.
It's actually we're thinking umfrom the very beginning, what
are the intended outcomes ofeven doing this at all?
And that is where we have all ofour clients start.
(07:47):
What do you want your learnersto actually walk away with from
this experience?
What is the promise that you'remaking?
So we're going to get a littlebit more into the nitty-gritty
of that, how you can use thatconcept of intentional
instructional design as a way toget paid.
Um, and then we work through themessaging and positioning and
marketing of that offer, how wehave a really people center
(08:10):
centered sales strategy withoutthe like fake urgency and weird
countdown timers.
Because when a lot of expertscome to us, they are worried
that when they start moving moreinto, let's say, a B2C space
where they're selling to thegeneral consumer that what
(08:31):
they've seen in the past is likethis really pushy sales thing.
And they they just want to dogood work and they're not really
feeling that.
And that is not actually what weteach at all.
So it's it's kind of perfect inthat way.
Um, we work a lot on assessmentand feedback.
How do we know that our clientsare successful?
What do they have todemonstrate?
How do you know if you've beensuccessful beyond just the
(08:54):
financial resources just bygetting people behind a pay uh
behind the paywall?
What needs to happen in yourbusiness so that you can.
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
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SPEAKER_01 (11:10):
Um also consider this, you know, your launch as a
success.
Um, we work on your facilitationand we work on all the tech and
systems that scale.
So this is what we do in ourimpact incubator, where we
actually have a three timesreturn on investment guarantee
when you work with us, or wework with, we continue to work
with you for free if um untilyou get that guarantee.
(11:31):
So, in this particular training,we're taking just a little teeny
slice off of that big tie, andwe're gonna be talking about um
getting paid before you evercreate a single module.
Um, so we're gonna learn todaywhy a pre-sale strategy is the
best kept secret of mostsuccessful course and program
creators, how you can get paid,um, proof of concept that funds
(11:54):
the creation of your program,course, or other group offer,
and the simple steps that youneed to best track your offer
for revenue and client resultsfor long-term success without
any guesswork.
So, according to um the poll atthe beginning, many of you have
um have already booked out orare close to booking out with
(12:17):
your one-to-ones.
And that's like this top half ofthe screen is your
resource-limited offers.
You can deliver incredibleresults, but there is a finite
number of who you can servebecause there is a finite amount
of time in which you can servethose people.
We have 24 hours in a day, andyou probably don't want to be
(12:38):
working all 24 hours.
Like, we also are, I think wefind our way into
entrepreneurship because we arereally interested in more time
flexibility.
But what you can find is that,like, okay, you're super busy.
This is great, you're makingmoney, and yet why are you
working so hard?
Like, you may even be workingmore hours than you did in
(12:59):
corporate, and that is not thebusiness.
So we're looking at one-to-manyoffers, not getting rid of your
one-to-ones, but figuring outhow to incorporate one-to-many
offers so that you can multiplyyour resources.
We call these force multiplyingoffers, where you can serve many
people at one time, you saveyour time, and you can generate
(13:22):
potentially more income.
Um, you may already know thispiece of it, but this I really
like showing this slide to helpus start thinking through the
different kinds of offers we canhost in our offer suite in order
to maximize our time flexibilityand our financial flexibility.
(13:44):
So, you know about DIY products,right?
It's the lowest touch point, thelowest price point.
It's like a done for you coursewhere you just like click and
somebody checks out, right?
And then you don't, you're notworried about the live delivery
of it.
Um, somebody could just downloadit.
They can download a workbook,they do it on their own.
You're never really interfacingwith them beyond like maybe some
(14:07):
automated emails, but it'sreally like hands-off as far as
you are concerned.
That's really different than theother side of the scale or the
other side of the spectrum,which is DFY done for you, which
is where most of you probablyare in the process, right?
Because you're doing this likereally um hands-on client
(14:29):
one-to-one work where um you'reserving one client at a time.
So can you type in the chat?
I'm curious, those of you whoare joining us live, if you can
type your signature offer, thething that you are are offering
right now, which category doesthat fall into?
Like your main thing that you'remarketing.
Is it DIY done with you wherethe client does the work, but
(14:51):
you are guiding?
Maybe there's some liveinteraction.
It's usually a mid-price point.
Um, or is it done for you whereyou're doing all the work?
Okay.
Okay, so I see decorze dev,you're doing mostly DIY.
That's awesome.
Okay.
Um, the prepare and leader, hi.
(15:11):
We're doing done for you, JennyMagic, um, better change, done
with you, done with you, donefor you.
Okay, cool.
So many of us are falling intothese two categories.
And I would say my scalablegroup offer in my own business
is a done with you offer.
It is the highest price pointbecause our clients are getting
(15:33):
strategic consulting andsupport, but a lot of it is also
client driven.
Um, and it's usually these twoareas right here, done with you
and done for you, that you cancharge the highest amount for.
Um, and and still find somescalable, some scalability.
(15:53):
I think that's what I shouldsay.
The scalability in this donewith you area.
But group programs often um showup under DIY or done with you.
Okay, so here's just someexamples that you can you can
take a picture of this if youwant to, just sort of wrap your
head around it, right?
DIY pre-recorded, downloads,easily mass-produced products.
(16:16):
Um, books fall into a DIYcategory, like you're doing all
the work up front, and then itgoes for sale.
You're not going to make a tonof money with books, but it is a
good way to get your yearningout there done with you.
You can see it's a little bitmore intensive where your client
is doing some of the like a lotof the of the load, but you're
(16:37):
also there guiding.
And then done for you is likethe services you're used to.
Okay.
So why aren't more entrepreneurslaunching group offers?
I mean, I could have told youthis, this is, but this is an
actual stat from Teachable, alearning management software
that you have probablyparticipated on or seen or have
heard of from 2025.
(16:59):
It's um a fear of failure.
And I would actually go so faranecdotally, like I don't have
any staff on this, but just frommy own experience in working
with clients, it's a fear ofwhat if I put so much time and
energy into this and potentiallyfinancial investment and nobody
buys it.
And that's the big fear offailure.
(17:20):
Or what if I I blast this outeverywhere and only one person
signs up?
I mean, if you can relate, canyou type a me in the chat?
I'm curious if like you've everfelt like, yeah, I haven't done
this yet because I don't, Idon't want to invest all that
time and money if I don't knowit's actually gonna work.
I mean, that's that should beall of us, right?
(17:41):
Like, I don't want to investtime and money on something that
I'm not certain is gonna work.
So that is where the pre-salesstrategy comes in, right?
Because it's minimizing our riskof failure because you're
getting paid proof of conceptbefore you invest resources and
fully creating your program.
So if you have ever participatedin like quote, a beta round of
(18:05):
something for free, can you typea one in the chat?
If you've ever been aparticipant for free in a beta
test, quote unquote.
Um, if you have ever offered abeta test, like if you've
already if you've ever puttogether a product and you're
like, I'm gonna just offer thisfor free.
I need some people to go throughit to give me some feedback.
(18:27):
Can you type a two in the chat?
You've offered a free beta test.
Okay.
Yeah.
Sarah, thank you.
You're trying everything.
I mean, same.
I've done it both ways as well.
Um, been a participant in a freeone, and um a I'm gonna actually
go back to this slide for asecond, and um have hosted a
free one.
(18:48):
And the thing is, beta tests aregreat for you in theory.
It's keeping you busy.
You feel like, oh, great, I'mgetting some feedback in
exchange for people goingthrough this for free.
But what we sometimes, when whenwe're feeling really vulnerable
for doing something new, likelaunching a group program if
you've never done one before umand been successful at it, it
(19:09):
can feel like any feedback isgood feedback.
But here's the thing (19:12):
if you are not getting feedback in the form
of somebody willing to pay forthis idea, it's actually too
expensive a feedback.
Like you, it's not worth it.
The best feedback you can get issomebody saying, I will part
with my cash in order toexperience the thing that it is
(19:33):
that you're providing.
So offers that are pre-sold havea five times higher conversion
rate than offers that were notpre-sold, meaning that if you're
just out the gate saying, Thisthing is going to, you know,
join now and and we start Mondayor whatever.
(19:53):
You're cricket and nobody isready to start on Monday.
However, if you have planned away to really um get paid first,
then the the pre-sale actuallydoes its job to help you to have
a more successful launch.
So here are the three steps todesign and execute a profitable
(20:14):
pre-sale offer.
The first thing is don'treinvent the wheel, which is
really um reassuring, I think.
Step one is to start with whatyou're already doing, it lowers
the risk and increases yourprobability of success because
you know that with yourone-to-one clients, they are
already getting success becauseyou're using what you already
(20:35):
know or have and do, and you'renot starting anything from
scratch.
So, what that looks like issomething that you already have
practiced with your clientsexecuting, something that you've
already helped your clients getresults with.
Um, your people already know youfor doing this.
(20:56):
So maybe you have, you know,you're posting on LinkedIn, you
have an email list, you're doingyour marketing somewhere, maybe
you have a podcast, and youraudience that has gathered, no
matter their side, no matter thesize of your audience, sort of
have a feeling that this is,yeah, this is like kind of along
the same lines of what you'redoing.
(21:17):
And you're already getting paidto do it, it's just in a
different format.
So, some questions that you canask yourself to decide, okay,
well, there's no way I can teachmy entire process start to
finish that I'm doing with myclients.
It's it would take way too long,it's way too hard.
And I'm the one who has thelike, they're not interested in
(21:40):
coming to me to learn how todesign all this stuff
themselves, for example.
So, what can you teach from whatyou already do or a little
sliver of your process toquickly and profitably get
maximum results for your client?
So why do people come to you,but really?
(22:01):
Like, I would love for you toanswer this in the chat.
Like, people come to youprobably to do the thing on the
surface, but really they'rechoosing you because of the way
you're doing something.
So take a second and think aboutthat.
Why do people come to you?
I would say people come to mefor instructional design support
and marketing and messaging fortheir group program.
(22:24):
But why do they really come tome?
Why do they choose me overanother person offering
something similar?
Because none of us are like, Imean, I've I would be shocked if
any of us are doing somethingthat nobody in the world is
doing, right?
Um, I think people come to mereally because I have a teaching
background.
I think people come to me reallybecause I understand how
(22:46):
vulnerable it is to be an expertat one thing and being brand new
at another thing.
I think people come to me reallybecause I am an excellent coach
and they they know that they'regonna.
To be seen and not just anumber.
And I put a lot of energy intohelping my clients.
I just dumped a huge waterbottle.
(23:08):
Uh okay.
So Sarah says, I have found thatpeople come to me because their
leads are down, but they reallycome to me because I've been
there and experimented until Irebound, exactly rebounded.
And so they often I think thisis true of most people.
And this might be a question youhave to like kind of ponder
today as you're driving aroundor you're on your walk.
(23:29):
Ponder this.
Why do people come to you?
But really, why do they come toyou?
Um yeah, because you've been intheir shoes.
I think that's most people.
They want to feel like, am I uhnobody wants to be made to feel
like they're an idiot whenthey're down, right?
It's like I'm a smart person,but I'm experiencing a dip in
(23:50):
this area.
And so I think learning fromsomebody who has been there
before is really, really, reallypowerful for most people.
And I think that that'sreflected here in the chat.
Like Shannon is saying, becauseI have been in their shoes and
they trust me.
The prepare leader is sayingbecause I have experience in
supply chain.
So the training comes from aplace of empathy of what they're
(24:10):
going through.
Um, yes, all of this.
Um, Sarah says, people come tome because leads are coming in,
but they aren't letting enoughmeeting, they aren't getting
enough meetings with people toconvert them.
Okay, so you guys get it.
Here's um another question toask yourself.
When these people do come toyou, how are you helping them?
What are the steps in yourprocess from the moment that
(24:33):
your client pays?
What happens?
And map that out.
Now, I'm is that something thatyou all do, Sarah, Sarah Buck,
I'm asking you this.
Is that something that you likewhere you're mapping out a
process in booked in six?
Sorry to put you on the spot.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
I just realized I'm muted.
Um, what we do inside booked outin six, the first thing is a
booked out blueprint.
And we map, yeah, we map outwhat our offer suite looks like.
What does that staircase looklike?
Yeah.
From the lead magnet all the wayto the upgrade offer.
SPEAKER_01 (25:13):
Yep.
Okay.
And then once somebody actuallyis working with you within that
offer, do you cover that, like,does do you help your clients
map out what that process lookslike, or is that on the client
to like already know that?
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
Like their framework.
SPEAKER_01 (25:31):
Their framework, but like the second somebody checks
out, what's the next thing thathappens?
They get an email.
What's the next thing thathappens?
They have like an intake call oror something, like, and then how
do they have a delivery system?
SPEAKER_00 (25:42):
Yeah, they're with the working on that.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
Okay.
So what I have found in workingwith um many solopreneurs,
experts in their field, is thatthey have not yet documented the
process.
And maybe, maybe they have like,in so much as that they've
automated some of the pieces,but like their own process of
(26:06):
sitting and listening with to aclient, figuring out what the
problem is, and then underdiagnosing and understanding
what the solution is, and thenexecuting on that solution.
If you have not mapped out thatprocess for yourself after the
client pays, this is a piece ofhomework for tonight or for
(26:26):
whenever you have a second.
Okay.
Um, because your group programis somewhere in that process,
most likely, if you're notalready sure what it is that you
could be teaching.
Um, so those are the questions.
Why did it come to you really?
How are you helping people?
And what results do they getafter they work with you?
(26:48):
Okay, here's a couple otherquestions that you want to ask
yourself.
And you can totally takepictures of these slides if
that's helpful for you.
But what's the most challengingpart of your process for your
client?
I when I first started um in myfirst group program, I was
teaching, this is back in 2013.
So internet grandma dinosaur,like I said, I was teaching
(27:09):
people how to developrelationships on Instagram, not
dating relationships, like fortheir product-based businesses.
And um it, I actually thought,what a stupid idea.
Why would anybody pay for that?
And it was actually theencouragement of a friend that
said, you've grown your brand onInstagram, and so many of us are
(27:30):
out here struggling, have noidea what to do.
How are you getting all of thesecollaborations?
Blah, blah, blah.
And I said, I don't know.
So I wrote out what I was doingon Instagram.
And I gave her an email that hadlike 20 steps in it.
And she goes, This is a goldmine.
(27:51):
You need to package this up,make it pretty, and sell it as a
course.
And I'm like, what a dumb idea.
Who cares about Instagram?
Like, this is so stupid, right?
Don't ask me to predict thefuture.
I know nothing.
Uh and so I did this, and thatcourse was delivered so simply,
(28:13):
may I tell you?
It was one email a day,automated on MailChimp for 21
days.
The original price was$47 in itslife cycle, it peaked at I think
$127.
And that one email delivered onea day for 21 days, the 21-day
(28:34):
Insta course netted a quarter ofa million dollars for myself.
I mean, it wasn't all at once,and I have three kids, so it
didn't get very far.
But still, that that's like notthat's not a little bit amount
of money.
And it ran for three years.
Okay.
It was very cheap.
I had thousands of people whowent through it.
(28:55):
And the reason that I'm bringingthis up is because I tested
first, would anybody want itbefore I ever made a lesson?
I said, here's about what you'regonna learn.
And there were enough people inthe market who said, I want
that, that as the emails weregoing the first time around, I
(29:18):
was like, okay, well, I knowwhat day one is.
I better go write that email soI can send it out on day one.
Like that's literally how I didit.
I was just like a couple daysahead of everybody else and got
and got great feedback and thenreiterated.
Okay, so what I found duringthat process is that I had
assumed that anybody who wascoming into my Instagram course
(29:38):
would have an understanding ofwho they were selling to.
They would have an understandingof their ideal client because
they had a business.
And that was on day two.
That tripped up like 95% ofparticipants.
I had no idea that that wasgoing to be a stumbling point.
I bet there's something in yourprocess that is super like it's
(29:59):
the hump to get over for yourclients.
And if you can't think of that,like, does anybody have a uh
something in their head whereyou're like, this is definitely
the hump for my clients?
Like, this is the one hard part.
Like, I can already identify.
If you can identify it, I wantto know.
Like, just say yes, I canidentify what that hump is.
I know what the most challengingpiece of my whole process is.
(30:22):
That might be a mini course inthere.
It's the thing that you wishedwould make the process so much
easier when they're working withyou at a higher level.
If they would have done thatthing or completed that thing or
known that thing before theycame to you, it could be like a
prerequisite course that peopleare taking so that when they do
(30:47):
um accelerate to your highestoffer, uh the highest rung on
your offer ladder, they willalready have that understanding
and that knowledge because theyhave practiced that one
component or they've gatheredthose components to be able to
hit the ground running when theyget to that highest paid offer.
That's a great solution for acourse for you, or a course, or
(31:10):
a training program, or somethinglike a group learning
experience, where it's just onelittle sliver of the entire
process.
So that's something to think on.
Okay, so that's all step one iswhat is the thing gonna be,
right?
Is to really understand what itis that you're you're gonna do.
Step two is designing a minimumviable product.
This is just basic like businessspeak and MVP, but your MVP is
(31:34):
the shortest, smallest, mostcompact thing that will is quick
and easy to launch, that you canactually generate active market
data, meaning like you alreadyknow where those ideal clients
for that particular product orthat particular um um group
(31:54):
offer are gathered.
Like you actually have a market.
Um, it you know you can beprofitable from doing it, like
because it's not going to bethis really big, overblown 12
module.
I need to get a whole productioncrew and rent a studio so I look
so good and get hair and makeup,like that's way too much
overhead for a minimum viableproduct that can come down the
(32:18):
line if you if you so choose.
And then you're able to actuallygenerate real results for your
clients in a short amount oftime for one tiny little thing.
You're solving one tiny littleproblem for people.
So, in the the example of thatInstagram course that I was
talking about, it was quick andeasy to launch because it was
delivered via MailChimp over 21days.
(32:39):
It was all the way automated.
It was, I was able to generateactive market data because I was
around a lot of otherproduct-based business owners.
I had already networked in theircommunities and they weren't
buying my jewelry, but I hadsomething I could teach them.
So a ton of my friends, ton ofthe people in the Facebook
groups I was in, telling peoplethat I was networked with
(32:59):
locally in my hometown, wereproduct-based businesses and
they were all very interested inalso growing their brand on
social media.
And then can I can it beprofitable?
Yes, it was just I was alreadypaying for MailChimps.
So it was just my time and itwasn't that much time to begin
with.
And then was I able to generatereal results?
Well, absolutely.
(33:20):
Like if they did these things,they would find success.
So that that was all okay,check, check, check.
There's my MVP.
It minimizes your risk bystarting with a small but stable
foundation to build upon.
So a paid workshop is a grouplearning experience.
Let's say you have a hundredpeople paying you a hundred
dollars for a workshop that youdeliver in one hour.
(33:44):
That is multiplying your timeand really multiplying your
money.
And it's only taking an hour forthe delivery of it.
You see, so a paid workshop is areally good, like juicy group
offer.
A short email course, like Isaid about that, the 21-day
Insta course was great becauseit's not requiring a ton of
overhead.
You can do the work once andtest, like it are is anybody
(34:06):
even gonna sign up for this?
And if once they do, then youcan go ahead and build that
thing.
Okay.
So your MVP is actually yourbridge of success.
And you probably already knowthis because you've designed
offers before, but I think thevisual is really good.
So where the client for yourminimum viable product is right
(34:28):
now is their point A.
And your job with this grouplearning experience is to get
them to point B, which is wherethey want to go, their future
status, what they've alreadyaccomplished, what they've been
able to do.
And that bridge of success iswhere your offer lies.
And so, Sarah, this is great.
(34:48):
MVP examples would be bootcamps, challenges, workshops,
email course, anything thatlike, even if it's a small, like
like in like an audio training,like it can be really, really
tiny.
Um, it can be, it can even belike a robust workbook or
something with like an audio.
(35:09):
I've done that before where I'vehad like a little audio link
inside of a PDF that sort ofwalks people through what a
process is in a PDF.
Like there's so many ways todeliver to many people at once
in a very small and containedway.
So these are questions along thebridge of success that you're
(35:30):
gonna want to ask yourself.
The first one is what steps doesdo your participants need to
take to arrive at point B?
And you're going to backward mapfrom there.
That's how you map out your MVP.
In what format can they bestlearn those steps?
We have a client who coaches ummiddle-of-the-pack marathon
runners who want to get better.
(35:51):
And at first, he was like,Here's my MVP.
I can do it in four modules, butum each of my modules is gonna
be about an hour recording.
And I need a uh learningmanagement software.
So I gotta pay for that and loadall my modules in.
And we're like, no, runnersdon't want to be sitting in
(36:11):
front of a computer to learnfrom a coach and then go run.
So instead, we are going to makethis into an audio series so the
runners can have this in theirears as they're running and you
are in their ears.
So you gotta really be thinkingabout who you're building this
for and what format is best forthem.
(36:32):
We we work with people who say,Oh, my ideal client are busy
moms.
And so I am going to create thislike very robust training
series.
And it's like if they're busy,they they don't have like
there's gonna be kids hanging onand they can't sit there and
learn in this way.
So really be thinking about whatis happening in your MVP's life
(36:52):
in order for them to be able toconsume this content and
actually get results.
Because I'm certain you have allbought a course that sat on your
hard drive and you never touchedit.
I have, I certainly have manythousands of dollars worth
because I think, you know what,this time is gonna be different.
And you know what the result is?
(37:13):
I end up feeling bad aboutmyself and I don't ever spend
with that person again because Ifeel guilty or ashamed that I
wasn't able to um manage all ofthe things I needed to manage.
And it's because it wasn'tdesigned really for me to be
able to manage it.
All that that, like I don'tthink that course creators are
(37:34):
nefarious by nature, but we doreally leave something out when
we're not considering who's theend user and how are they best
going to learn, right?
So think about how long of atimeline do I actually need to
get people from point A to pointB.
For my email Instagram course, Isaid 21 days.
It's like a little bit of ahabit.
(37:54):
We're gonna do one tiny littlething each day for 21 days.
And um, it was the perfectamount of time because people
weren't so like, I only have sixmore weeks of this thing to go
through.
And then I'm done.
It was like quick, easy, wecould do it on the fly.
You don't have to like carve outa bunch of time to do it.
Um, let price point is a win foreveryone.
(38:17):
So you definitely want to priceit at a at a price point that is
good for you for sure.
But thinking about like theformat contributes to the
positioning of it, the um thesimplicity contributes to the
positioning.
So pricing is such a huge,gnarly conversation for each
(38:41):
individual, but this issomething to really consider.
Like, how do you price it lowenough that it is a really
juicy, great offer and reallydelivers on a promise?
Because this is probably a lowerprice point than working with
you at the very top rung of youroffer ladder, which is your
(39:04):
one-to-one, because it's there,because your clients will be
getting the most access to youin a one-to-one situation.
So if your um group program is adone with you or a DIY, it needs
to be positioned in a way thatmakes sense with your entire
offer suite.
So your one-to-one is thehighest.
So sometimes our clients arelike, well, my one-to-ones are
(39:26):
$500 an hour and I want to sellthis program for$1,500.
And it's like, okay, well, thenyou're gonna need to bump up
your one-to-one situationbecause it doesn't make, you
know, like you don't want youroffers cannibalizing each other.
So these are all conversationsthat that you know come down the
line.
And then how can I use thisasset?
I'm sorry, how can I use this asan asset for other offers?
(39:48):
We always want to think about inour client journey what's gonna
come next for our people.
Is it an upsell?
Is it a down sell?
Is it okay now you've gottenthis?
If you want to join thecommunity where we're having
these ongoing conversations,there's lots of different ways
to do that.
So this is one of our umclients, Dr.
Christine Coleman, and she is apsychotherapist, a nonprofit
(40:11):
founder, an executive coach forum women of color leaders.
And um, when she joined herincubator or incubator, she was
um seeing clients justone-to-one.
And the most she could chargefor an hour of her services was
$150 an hour because that's whatlike the market could bear.
That's like therapy in her umwhere she was living.
(40:35):
And she's like, I I can't havelike she had two little kids at
the time.
She couldn't have enough$150 anhour clients in a week in order
to have this like verysustainable business without
completely depleting her.
So she decided to create thisleadership program for women of
color leaders.
And then she priced it at$2,000for her first round.
(40:59):
She got 10 people to sign up.
She made$20,000 and shedelivered it one hour a week for
six weeks in the evening whenher when her husband was home
taking care of the kids, youknow, after he had gotten home
from work.
So it was flexible for her time.
It worked with her life, itworked with the clients.
It was only six weeks.
It was$2,000 with a reallywonderful um promise.
(41:21):
Like her point B was somethingthat these women really wanted.
And she made$20,000 in her firstlunch.
Now, I don't know about you, but$20,000 is a lot of money.
And you might be making thatalready with your one-to-one
clients.
And you're like, okay, so I justneed to book another one-to-one.
But I want you to be thinkingabout how much time it took her
(41:41):
to earn that$20,000.
Because even if you have reallyhigh-ticket offers in your offer
suite, um, now she's deliveringone hour for six weeks, and that
becomes six hours total.
And then she was making$20,000because she's delivering it to
many people at once.
(42:02):
So this is where that time andum financial flexibility come
into play.
All right, the third step ingetting paid is um to make sure
your pre-side your, I'm sorry,your pre-sale is simple, quick,
and agile.
Um, and so what that means isthat you only actually need
three things to quickly andeffectively take your MVP to
(42:25):
market.
You need a way to connect, youneed a way to collect, and you
need a way to deliver.
So connecting would be where areyou going to talk about this?
I was talking to Sarah before wegot on live, and um, she was
saying that she was um sharingthis on this workshop on Meetup.
What a great! Like, I I don'tknow why I never even thought to
(42:48):
put our free workshops up onMeetup.
It's just like a whole newmarket of people who are looking
for something that they don'tknow about you yet.
So that's a great place.
Oh, maybe you're connecting withpeople on LinkedIn or on
Instagram or TikTok or Facebookor in your local networking
groups or wherever it is thatyou're gathering people, you
need a way to connect becauseyou need people for a business,
(43:09):
right?
You need a way to collect, youneed your a payment processor,
some sort of checkout page or acheckout link.
It could be as simple as like aPayPal link or a Venmo business
link.
I mean, I don't love Venmo forbusiness, but that's that's a
whole different conversation.
But like I'm sure you alreadyhave a payment processor in
place.
And then you need an a way todeliver your thing.
(43:32):
So is that via audio clip thatyou hook up to your Google Drive
and you send a link out?
Is it via email?
Is it on a live workshop?
How are you gonna deliver thisthing to people?
Is it like some sort of digitaldownload that gets emailed out
to people?
Those are the three things youneed.
That's it.
It's so simple.
It's like simpler than simple.
(43:54):
Connect, collect, deliver.
Remember those three.
Um, this is our client, Missy,and Missy has um, she is a
crafting influencer.
If you didn't know that that wasa thing, man, it is a thing.
She came to us and she's alongtime client.
She actually, I first met her inmy Instagram course in 2013.
(44:15):
And then she joined our impactincubator in 2023, 10 years
later.
And she was, she didn't tap in.
She was making, she was handmaking birds and gnomes and like
home decor stuff, um, andshipping it out.
And she was doing well, like,you know, 10, 15 grand a month
in handmade goods.
(44:35):
Well, she came to us and she'slike, I love you guys, but I uh
I can't I can't make the time tooffer some sort of course.
I am so busy making and shippingall of these things.
Well, we're like, give us anhour for three weeks and we're
gonna set up like some testingoffers.
(44:55):
We're gonna help you get paid tocreate your membership.
So she came.
So she's like, okay, what do Ihave to do?
We're like, you have to get aZoom account because you're
going to present on Zoom.
She's like, oh, okay.
She didn't have a Zoom accountof her own, right?
So she paid for a Zoom account.
And then we said, we're going torun this workshop.
How much do you think yourpeople will pay for this
workshop?
(45:16):
It's so long where you'reselling and they're selling with
you.
She goes, I don't know.
Why don't we do less than 20?
We're like, great, 17 bucks.
She sold out all 100 seats thatshe had on Zoom, sold out within
like an hour, and she made$1,700for a paid workshop.
She's like, um, and I don't haveto ship any product.
(45:36):
Okay.
So she did the sew along.
She's like, let's try that againnext week.
She did it again.
She charged like$22, I think.
Um, a hundred people sold out.
She bumped up her Zoom room tolike$300 and she made a few
thousand dollars.
She's like, you guys, what isgoing on?
I've never made money thiseasily before.
We're like, yeah, because you'reserving many people at once
(45:58):
instead of like this personorders a bird that they paid$40
for, and you have to go andstitch it, and then you have to
go and shift it.
Like, oh my gosh, it was socrazy.
So we took these workshops andused those as the basis.
She got paid up front to createthis membership by testing out
(46:19):
paid products, little tiny paidproducts.
So these sew alongs went into amembership and it became the
foundation of a$39 a monthmembership where people will get
online and sew with her.
In her first launch, she sold445 seats to this membership and
she made$52,000 in recurringrevenue with like all the
(46:43):
different price packages thatshe had in her first launch
because she had gotten paidfirst.
She didn't go and pre-record awhole bunch of things and load
them up onto some membershipplatform.
She didn't even have, she wasn'teven paying for Zoom until it
was necessary, right?
So this is the result of havingan MVP first and getting paid
(47:04):
before you create your program.
So here's three things youabsolutely do not need to get
paid.
Pre-recorded content, that'snumber one.
Don't do it.
Please, please don't do it.
I actually just turned away aclient yesterday who was
considering working with us.
And then she was started likefor what she wanted.
She was really, I'll just saylike nickel and diming and
(47:26):
seeing how much we could, howmuch work we could do for free.
And I don't even entertain thatat this point anymore.
Right.
And I was like, no, she's like,except I've already invested so
much on my studio.
I've already re you know,pre-recorded all the stuff.
I'm like, ah, like I wish youwould talk to us first.
Like we would have told you,don't do that.
(47:47):
Go sell it first.
And then you can get all fancy,as fancy as you want.
You do not need a fancy salespage.
I have seen multiple people sellfrom a social media post, from a
Google Doc, from just linking acheckout page to a simple
workshop.
Like you don't need a full-blownsales system at this point.
(48:08):
And you definitely don't need alarge audience.
You do need an audience, and youdo need to have in your mind
that you have um created thisfor a very particular person and
have real life people in yournetwork that you know of who
would need this.
That I think is the biggestpredictor to whether or not
(48:29):
you're going to get paid, andthen whether or not it's worth
it for you to have a groupoffer.
So here's a recap (48:34):
you're gonna start with doing what you are
already doing, really examiningwhat is your process and what
can I excavate out of thatprocess in order to create this
little sliver of an MVP.
You're gonna design your MVPoffer with your ideal client in
mind.
Always, always, what is the endresult for your learner and
(48:55):
what's in it for them?
That's number two.
And number three, you're gonnaexecute a really agile launch.
You're gonna keep it supersimple, really compact, really
small, and you don't need toinvest in any fancy stuff at the
beginning.
Um, okay.
So here's your to-do list to getpaid.
Know what you're selling andknow that what problem it
solves.
That's business 101, right?
(49:17):
Know who you're gathering.
I mean, who you're selling toand where they gather.
Sarah was talking about this inmy community um last week.
It's the same idea.
Like, where do these peoplegather?
Do you want to go and speak inother communities?
You want to do a podcast tour?
Who are you selling to?
Where do they gather?
Talk about what people will get.
What's in it for them?
That needs to be number one.
(49:38):
What is in it for them?
I mean, not number one, but likereally top of mind.
And then put a start date on thecalendar ahead of time.
So what you can say is um uhdoors are open for this
workshop.
It will happen on April 17th, amonth from now, and you start
talking about it and seeing howmany people start paying.
(49:59):
If nobody on April 17th has paidyou, that's really good
feedback.
Nobody wants it.
Or your messaging is off, or theoffer isn't right, or the
community that you're selling itto isn't right, but then there's
no skin off your back becauseyou haven't even done the
workshop yet, right?
You haven't invested your timeor your energy or your money
(50:20):
really.
It's only that you put a date onthe calendar and you start
talking about it.
So that is something I reallywant you to cultivate that like
mindset of you're just alwaysrunning experiments in your
business.
If that if something doesn'twork, it doesn't mean you suck
or you have failed.
It just means, okay, well, thisidea didn't land.
So what needs to be tinkeredwith as a scientist?
(50:43):
If an experience, like if yourhypothesis does not give you
that result, you go back to thedrawing board or you make a new
hypothesis and then you run anew experiment.
And that is what we're alwaysdoing here in Disney.
So that brings us to the nextpiece of the puzzle.
And so I have actually a freemini course that you're welcome
to download.
It's at standfortheand.com slashsold out.
(51:06):
That QR code should point you toit.
It's totally free.
There's a really robust workbookin there.
Um, it'll help, you know, answersome of the questions that we
talked about in this training.
But sold out offer system isreally looking at your entire
offer suite, so inclusive ofthose one-to-ones that you
already have booked out.
And then how do you make surethat your offers are talking to
(51:27):
one another and that you feelconfident in selling those
offers, in particular your groupprograms?
So it's for people who are readyto scale beyond where they
already are and to diversifytheir income streams with, you
know, multiple streams ofincome.
And this is another piece of thepuzzle that Angela, my
co-founder, and I really workwith our clients on because we
(51:50):
want there's been so many weirdshifts in quote, you know,
capital, all caps, the market,right?
2020, when everything shut down,man, online learning.
Like that's when many of you mayhave gone into this crazy world
of digital marketing andleaving, you know, like your
corporate positions or your moretraditional roles and jumping
(52:13):
into this online space that likewe saw saw a lot of people
doing.
And so the market was likepopping.
It was hot for B2C.
And then people started goingback to work, people started
getting a little zoomed out, andthe market kind of shifted, and
people were getting more savvy,and they're like, oh my gosh,
I've spent so much money on allthese other things and didn't
get what I was promised.
And so what used to work wasn'tworking anymore, right?
(52:37):
And so we're always like, okay,if but if you have diverse
streams of income in yourbusiness and you have a full
offer ladder, when one bit ofyour market shifts, you have
more stability because you'relike a table, you know,
essentially that has four legsinstead of one main whale of a
client.
If they cancel their contract,you're not you're not out to
(53:01):
see, you know, like you canstill survive.
So we really want to encourageum different income streams
within your business, and thesold-out offer system helps you
do that.
So it's totally free.
Check it out if that soundsinteresting.
That's sort of like the nextstep after this.
And yeah, that's all I've got.
So I'd so happy to answer anyquestions or um any comments,
(53:26):
any feedback.
SPEAKER_00 (53:27):
Thank you so much.
So everybody, drop yourquestions as they come.
I have a couple of questions foryou that I'll start off with.
Okay.
Um, so one question I get allthe time is what if I only sell
one or two spots in my MVP?
Do you go on?
(53:48):
Do you set a limit like I needto sell five in order for it to
it to go on?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (53:54):
Okay, so the great news is that you're your own
boss and you get to decidewhatever you want.
And the hard news is that you'reyour own boss, and sometimes you
don't know what the heck youwant.
So um, there have been timeswhere I put something out there
and one or two people havepurchased, and I go on as if
there were one or two hundredpeople who have purchased
(54:17):
because I want that video asset.
Like if it's a workshop, forexample.
Yeah.
I want to record myself.
I want to be on and presentingwithout, like, and at least,
like, let's say it's$100.
I'm making$200 now to record avideo that I can go and use
somewhere else.
Like I could use it in mymarketing.
(54:38):
It could be the basis of like Ican go and live in a community
somewhere else, and then I wouldgo and try again.
So I'm of the mindset if you gotpaid, you got paid.
Like, go for it, go do it.
It might be not as many peopleas you want, but it's still
you're creating content foryourself.
And you still got paid$200 to doit.
(54:58):
When what's the alternative?
Getting paid nothing.
So I don't know.
That's sort of my mindset.
It's better to get paid by oneor two and definitely don't
cancel.
If people want to give youmoney, give them what they paid
for.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (55:12):
Maybe I had it where one person bought and it was
more of a hot seat situation.
So I ended up converting themover to a consulting call.
And they ended up upgrading intomy main offer.
So it worked out.
But I've had that too where likesomething has sold out and then
another thing where one personbought, and I'm like, well, what
(55:35):
do I do now?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (55:36):
That's such a great question.
I just I love um the it to me, Ialways want to offer the person
who goes, listen, I trust youenough that I forked over$100
for this or$5,000 or howevermuch the offer is.
I want to deliver so hard forthat person.
(55:58):
And then I love the idea then ofyou know, developing a
relationship.
So maybe they do end up in likemaybe it's a trial.
They're trying to figure out doI even like how this person
works?
And by turning them away, youmay turn away a potential
one-to-one high highest ticket.
SPEAKER_00 (56:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, that's exactly whatwould have happened with that
person who bought like the onehot seat and then she ended up
working with me for like a year.
SPEAKER_01 (56:25):
Yeah.
Oh, I love that.
I love that.
Oh, and okay, the preparedleader.
I'm sorry I don't know your yourreal name, but I don't think
that's Dre Given A.
Um, your birth certificate.
Yeah.
The prepared leader, um, which Ilove that.
Um, so since knowledge is ateveryone's fingertips these
days, have you seen a shift inthe success of selling knowledge
and expertise?
The answer is totally, I have.
(56:47):
And that's a good question.
Yes, it's a great question.
Tanya.
Oh, hi Tanya.
Hi, Tanya.
And then how do you express toclients how offers like these
add value beyond anything AI canprovide?
Okay, so I feel like these areconnected questions.
And I love, love, love this.
So in the past, I would saypre-AI, um, the course slash
(57:12):
learning industry, there was alot of B2C stuff that um AI can
turn out now in 25 seconds forfree.
Like a free version of Chat GPTcould give you all the steps
that you needed.
And you don't have to pay aninfluencer$2,500 for 12 weeks of
your time, right?
(57:32):
So you may have noticed thatthat industry has shifted
dramatically, like even in thelast six months, where these big
main course creators are like,well, and now we're not gonna do
courses anymore.
And you're like, wait, what?
Like lots of famous people haveinternet famous people have
(57:52):
pulled their courses.
And I can tell you why.
And I I have not seen thisanywhere, but I guarantee, like,
I would be willing to put moneyon this is that their sales have
tanked because people got savvyand said, Well, ChatGPT, could
you just create this into acourse for me?
(58:14):
And so, how do we still developprograms that people understand
are not just um an AIexperience?
And that actually happens to beum as like how you are willing
to show up.
(58:36):
And it doesn't necessarily haveto be lie, but the the thing
that's happening with AI is thatmore than ever people want the
human touch.
And I'm sure you've seen thattoo.
It's like, okay, I can very welltell when this is written by AI
and when this is um generated bya real human being.
(58:58):
And so I personally want tolearn from somebody who has been
in my shoes, from somebody whohas had this experience so that
I can ask questions.
So as a learner, I'm actuallypretty savvy now, where I'll
say, like, I won't buy anythingthat I don't have at least the
ability to ask the creatorquestions.
(59:19):
They don't have to be therelive, but I need to know, like,
can I can I email you something?
And I'm willing to pay moreactually for that experience.
Because remember at thebeginning, I said, why do people
come to you?
And so many of you said, becauseI've been there and I know how
to navigate that and I know howto be resilient and find my way
out of that.
(59:40):
That is what people are payingyou for.
It's not as much the steps, it'sthe like people don't want to be
alone.
They don't want to do things ontheir own.
And it's really, reallyvulnerable to learn anything
new.
And so when you can show up asan expert in your field and mix
that empathy of like, hey, Iknow what I'm talking about.
(01:00:04):
You don't yet know about thisthing that I know, and I'm here
to bridge that gap human tohuman, people are absolutely
still willing to pay for that.
And I would say that probablythe DIY market has suffered the
most.
Um, but the Dunwicking market, Ithink it's popping.
So any any and which is greatnews because you can charge more
(01:00:25):
for that.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00:26):
Yeah, I will second this because I've been buying
more courses lately, but only ifthey're paired with like async
coaching.
Can I DM with with them?
Can I email with them?
Will they send me a Loomfeedback?
I'm looking for those pieces.
And I also like when they havecustom trained AI assistance to
(01:00:49):
help me create things fasterwithin that course.
So I'm always looking for likethose three things together when
I'm purchasing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:00:57):
Yeah, I concur a hundred percent.
I love um the point that youbring up about feedback because
a lot of the DIY courses andwhite people have such a sour
taste in their mouth after likea decade or so of these being
like the really hot items thatall of the internet celebrities
have told us that we need tohave in our offer suites and
(01:01:19):
that many of us have taken andspent money on, is that you're
creating like you're you'retaking their slides and or their
information, and then you'recreating an isolation or you're
you're implementing inisolation.
And that is the worst way thatwe like we as humans don't learn
best like that.
We learn best in community wherewe have like if you think about
(01:01:42):
like your own life as a student,you had somebody telling you,
hey, a little bit to you know,or like coaching basketball, a
little bit that's wrong.
Yeah, that's wrong.
Or here, let me show you how todo it right.
And so we we that market isstill absolutely popping.
So I wouldn't I wouldn't worryabout that.
(01:02:03):
I know we're at time, so I'm Idon't want to go over too much.
Um, but I would love any otherquestions if you have a second.
SPEAKER_00 (01:02:09):
Yes, we are at time.
We'll stand for a couple ofminutes.
And I just want to add to thatpoint, if your course also has a
Slack channel with it as acompanion, that's another way
that you can bring thatcommunity in and you can
interact with each other.
Because, like as you weresaying, people don't want to
(01:02:30):
learn in isolation, but alsolike this world that we're in,
most of us here are soloconsultants, it's lonely.
So anytime you can find acommunity where you guys are
going after that same goal andyou can interact, it's going to
add an extra element to thatgroup offer.
SPEAKER_01 (01:02:48):
Agreed.
Um a lot of times people willmake the argument like, I can't
provide the same level of umsupport in a group that I can
one-to-one with people.
And somehow a group learningexperience is diluted from your
one-to-one.
And I could not disagree withthat more.
(01:03:08):
I have found that we, as humans,we are social beings and to
learn in community with otherpeople is a really, really
powerful experience.
And you probably haveexperienced it before where
you've been in a program andyou've made a friend for life.
(01:03:28):
Right?
Like think about your exactly,or college or you know, in your
master's programs.
Or I said one time I told mygirlfriend the best part about
paying$40,000 for a master's.
Yes, I thought it was a greatdegree, but I got you as a
friend because we got to gothrough it together and we
wouldn't have met otherwise.
And so there's there's so muchbenefit that comes of learning
(01:03:51):
as as a group, you know, andjust working that out together.
SPEAKER_00 (01:03:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm 100% with you on that.
Sometimes I have joinedcommunities that I don't
actually need because the peoplein that community, I wanted
access to them.
I wanted to get to know them.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:07):
I love that you bring that up.
That's a really strategic way ofputting yourself in the rooms
that you want to be in.
And that is a huge part ofbusiness as well.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:15):
Yeah.
Well, it looks like we answeredall the questions.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
You were amazing.
This was incredibly helpful.
SPEAKER_01 (01:04:25):
Wonderful.
Thank you so much for having me.
And if anybody has anyquestions, uh, find me on
LinkedIn.
I'm at Melissa Camillary.
Um, and there's not that many ofus in the world.
So C A Miller I.
Here's just a note about thecourse.
Thank you.
So join yes, lowercase, typelowercase.
I didn't realize that that wascase sensitive, but it's
(01:04:45):
standfortheand.com slash soldout.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04:51):
Awesome.
All right, I'm ending thestream.
Thanks, guys.
Thank you.
If this episode made things feela little more doable, I'd love
to help you take the next stepwith the booked out blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
(01:05:19):
Hey there, fellow founders.
Are you looking to unlock thesecrets behind rapid business
growth?
Join my vibrant meetup groupwhere we dive into masterclasses
on game-changing strategiesevery single month.
We've tackled topics likebuilding a lean marketing
engine, crafting killer leadmagnets, and leveraging gateway
offers to sell high-ticketoffers.
(01:05:41):
And trust me, you don't want tomiss out on the next one.
Come share your experiences,learn from the best, and let's
grow together.
Sign up and be part of the nextmasterclass by going to
events.saranoelblock.com.
That's E V E N T S dot S A R A HN O E L B L O C K dot com.
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