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We talk with authority development consultant Erica Holsen about why writing matters more in an AI-driven world and how a clear point of view turns your ideas into trust. We share practical ways to pitch publications, develop thought leadership, and use bylines to support real business goals.
• how AI is changing publications, traffic, and what editors value
• why uniquely human writing and a distinct POV beat generic AI content
• how to pitch editors with clear hooks, fit, and actionable takeaways
• developing a point of view through writing practice and contrarian nuance
• using published pieces as relationship and sales assets, not one-off wins
• choosing the right outlets including association publications and communities
• building credibility with sources, links, and careful use of client examples
• following up without being pushy and setting boundaries with PR pitches
If this episode made things go a little more doable, I'd love to help you take the next step with the Booked Out Blueprint. It's a practical, low pressure session to clarify your offers, your marketing, and what actually moves the needle. You can book yours through the link in the show notes. You don't have to figure it out alone.
Erica Holthausen is the founder of Catchline Communications, where she equips consultants with the tools they need to build their authority and differentiate themselves from their peers by writing articles for their newsletters, blogs, and high-visibility publications. Drawing on her experience as a freelance writer and editor, she guides her clients through the process of writing high-quality, original articles and using those articles as strategic business assets.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Welcome to the Tiny Marketing Podcast.
I'm Sarah Noal Block, and thisshow is made for solo
consultants who wanna get bookedout without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
fits into your life to growth,feels doable instead of
overwhelming.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
Today we are talking about how to build authority
with writing, which I, I'mexcited about because I, I'm a
writer.
We talk, Erica and I talkedabout that on our pre-call.
I love writing more thananything, but there is.
I think like a fear ortrepidation with a lot of people
(00:42):
that writing isn't as relevantas it used to be because of,
well, AI obviously, and waningattention spans.
So I am excited to get into thistopic and we're also gonna talk
about how you can create aunique POV so you're not just
blending in with everybody else.
(01:04):
And that also kind of solvesthat AI issue because if you are
giving that unique POV, nobodyelse is because a lot of them
are just putting like copy andpasting from jbc.
Erica, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Do you think you could introduceyourself the audience?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Of course, Sarah, thank you so much for having me
and it.
Yeah, so my name is EricaHolsen.
I am an authority developmentconsultant.
So like Sarah, I have abackground in writing and I was
a freelance writer and editorfor over 20 years, and now I use
that information to helpconsultants build their
authority through writing,whether they're writing for
their blog newsletter or for ahigh visibility publication.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So real quick.
I want to get into like, I thinkthe meat here is the authority
that you can build with yourwriting and a unique POV, but
because you touched on that youwere a journalist and you have
some insider information aboutai, can you tell me what you
(02:09):
told me on the pre-call abouthow AI is getting their
information And Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
It's fascinating, so I.
Remember back in the day whenpublications were all print and
advertising was all in printpublications and making that
transition from printpublications to digital and a
number of the publications thatI wrote for at the time didn't
survive that transition.
(02:37):
Now we're in another transition.
So these publications havealways relied very heavily on
advertising revenue.
And now with ai, people are lesslikely to go to Google to search
for something, click through toread the answer.
They're instead going to ClaudeChat, GPT Gemini, asking the
question there.
Getting an answer and they'renot clicking through.
(03:00):
So advertising website revenue,website traffic is down, which
means advertising revenue isdown for these publications.
So.
They're having to make anadjustment and they're adjusting
in a few different ways.
But the way that I think isultimately going to actually
work is more and morepublications are starting to
(03:20):
license the content on theirplatforms to AI companies so
that AI companies have.
Human generated content to trainon because if an AI trains on
its own stuff, it's sort of likemaking a photocopy of a
photocopy of a photocopy afterwhile.
Just
Speaker 6 (03:38):
more bland and more bland.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It gets like worse and worse andworse and just like implodes.
So that's changing A lot of theway.
Publications are looking atcontent.
They're looking at stuff thatis.
Uniquely human.
And similarly, ai, you now have,like, we used to deal with SEO
(04:01):
and, and I have a lot ofopinions on it because for the
most part, I don't think it'sall that essential for, high-end
consultants.
So we used to talk a lot aboutthat.
We are now talking aboutgenerative engine optimization.
Generative engine optimizationis looking at the entire digital
(04:21):
landscape and it's able toconnect everything in the
digital landscape to Sarah, toErica, to to you.
So the more that you are puttingthings out there that have a
digital footprint, generativeai, generative.
Engine optimization can kind oflook at that whole thing.
(04:42):
And again, what it is lookingfor is stuff that it cannot
create.
AI can summarize what's outthere in the world.
It is never gonna take risks.
It is never going to makeconnections between things that
are completely disparate.
That's what humans can do.
Humans can take risks.
Humans can get into like themessy stuff and humans can sort
(05:06):
of make those new connectionsthat AI is not capable of.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Okay, so I wanted to start with that because my
thought was people will see the.
This topic and they'll be like,oh, AI makes this irrelevant
now.
And I wanted to really get intothat piece first, that it
actually matters a lot more towrite and to write in varied
(05:30):
places instead of just havingyour blog being featured in
other media publications mattersmore.
Now it shows more of yourauthority.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, it's, it's now, it's going to become harder to
get into these otherpublications, but it's going to
matter a lot more.
Now it's more about.
Really that unique human angle,what can you bring to it?
So it's what can you bring tothe publication?
Not only like, yes, it has to bereally good for their readers.
(06:01):
That's what they will alwaysjudge based on.
But then it also has to havethat thing that AI cannot do,
that they can license it tothose AI companies.
Otherwise, that licensingagreement's not worth very much.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Yeah, that makes complete sense and I'm glad we
talked about that right at thetop.
So let's
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, so first a lot of people don't try, so keep
that
Speaker 5 (06:29):
So try.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
mind first So first is try Second is, you know, a
lot of publications will havesomething that is, they'll have
contributor guidelines if theyhave contributor guide.
Follow them Exactly.
And to the extent that if itsays, your subject line in your
(06:50):
pitch should read, boom, boom,boom.
Make sure your subject linereads boom, boom, boom.
So don't give them a reason toto ignore you before you, you've
even been able to make yourcase.
And then it's really followtraditional, traditional pitch.
Ideas like we have all beenpitched, I guarantee you go to
(07:12):
the spam folder right now inyour email.
I guarantee you there's a pitchthere that you're like, what
does this have to do with theprice of BRI on Tuesday?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
I just deleted a whole bunch of those that came
in the weekend.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like if you bothered to dotwo seconds of research, you
would know that this is not afit.
Same thing.
So a lot of editors get a ton ofpitches that have nothing to do
with.
What their magazine actuallywrites about.
So make sure that your idea istailored to the publication
itself.
(07:42):
There's a whole reallyrelatively simple process, but
we can get stuck in our headabout it, where it's just like,
give them the hook.
I also, by the way, recommendwriting the article before you
pitch the article because assomebody who is writing to build
your authority, your writingwill never, ever, ever, ever,
ever go to waste.
Because if they don't say yes,you can put it on your blog.
(08:05):
You can put it on Medium, youcan put it on LinkedIn, you can
put it all the other places.
Yeah, so when you pitch apublication, follow the
contributor guidelines, butbasically you are giving them a
little hook, like why is this ofinterest?
Why should their readers care?
Why you.
Like, are you just a person withan opinion?
(08:27):
Because all of us fit thatcategory.
So why specifically are you theright person to be writing about
that specific topic?
And then what is the solution?
What is, what is the problemthat it is going to help the
readers solve?
And.
What is your unique take on howto actually solve that problem?
(08:48):
So publications are alwayslooking for actionable insights.
They don't just want, they don'twant you to be overly
promotional.
They don't just want a talkinghead.
They want their readers to beable to read something and go,
oh, here's a way I can take onesmall step towards.
Navigating this tricky issue,solving this challenge,
(09:12):
addressing this challenge, thatkind of thing.
So you say, who does this pieceserve?
What is the objective?
In other words, why will thisspecific audience feel compelled
to read it?
What will they get out of it?
So how will their thinkingmindset or behavior change?
And will this enhance ordiminish your reputation?
So is it in alignment with whatyou are trying to be known for
(09:37):
out in the world?
Speaker 5 (09:39):
I really like that I.
I remember when I first startedmy business, that's, that's how
I got started was I would writearticles and I would pitch
publications with them, andthat's how I got my first two
clients was they just saw mybyline and the little bio at the
end and they're like, I likewhat I liked your perspective,
(10:03):
and that like, that propelledeverything else.
That made me also realize that.
Partnerships, borrowing otherpeople's audiences is the
easiest way to grow.
And six years later, I'm stillborrowing other people's
audiences and doing the samething.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
yeah.
Anytime you can borrow somebodyelse's audience, it means you
don't have to build your ownaudience.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
And can convert
Speaker 4 (10:33):
keep building your own audience, and that will,
that's always something we'reworking on, but it lets you tap
into one that's alreadyestablished, already interested,
and you get that added benefitof, You know, this is, this is
somebody, somebody vetted youand okay, this is somebody who
has something that my readers,my listeners, my community, they
(10:57):
are going to find valuable.
So that gives you that addedcredibility and trustworthiness
because you're borrowing that aswell as the audience.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
all different ways that you canleverage someone else's audience
to build your own.
And.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Just my, my little 2 cents.
Always have something for themto do next that would connect
them and convert them into youraudience too.
So like Erica, I was like,what's your lead magnet?
Because it's important.
It's important that like ifsomething resonates and they
want to stay connected with you,they need a way to be able to do
(11:36):
that immediately.
Otherwise they'd be like, Iloved Erica.
And then they'll go on abouttheir day, but now
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
to be able to connect with you on.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Which is one of the challenges with publications
because some publications won'tactually allow you.
To have a pitch at the end.
That's one of the reasons Ialways say like, your
perspective is yourdifferentiator.
That's the thing that different.
We get into differentiation and,and we make it way more
complicated than it needs to be.
(12:08):
If something happens fromsomebody reading your article
like it did with you.
Awesome.
Fantastic.
Don't expect it though.
Where those publications areeven more valuable is it turns
it into an asset that can helpyou with your sales process.
So you now have a business assetthat you can use to introduce
(12:30):
yourself to somebody to have oneof your referral partners
introduce you to the right folksto follow up.
On an initial conversation with,Hey, I wrote this article, this
was, it touches on some of whatwe talked about.
I thought it would be ofinterest.
So using it as an asset and notexpecting it's not a one and
(12:52):
done, like getting published isawesome, but you aren't writing
to get published.
You're getting published toachieve a specific business
goal.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, that's a good segue too.
And into how do you create yourown unique POV, so people, so
these publications actually careto, to publish you So what the
first thing that you recommendfor people to do?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
so part of that really is a practice, and for
some of us, you kind of writeyour way into it and then it's
like, huh.
Cool.
Everyone will never be a hit,ever, ever, ever.
So.
Some of it is you keep writingand also interrogating your own
ideas.
That's one of the reasons that Ilove writing, is it lets me
(13:38):
interrogate my own ideas and thewriting has to stand by itself
and on its own two feet withspeaking.
I can self-correct, I can readthe room, I can interact with
people and, and you know, Sarah,you can come back and be like,
Hey, say more about that.
While I like just railroadthrough with writing.
(14:00):
You can't, you can't do all ofthat self-correction.
So it has to stand on its own.
So it starts to let you see,huh, do I really believe this?
that's interesting.
So often when I do a firstdraft, I use a lot of brackets.
But I'll put brackets sometimesand be like, do I?
Do I really think this?
(14:20):
And then it forces me to reallythink deeply.
So part of that is part of thepractice and it's also.
For developing your perspectiveand your point of view.
It's reading or listening toother things, and anything that
catches your attention.
Write down the quote, write downwhere you got the quote, and
(14:43):
then use one of I, I always usethese three prompts in response
to it.
Yes and yes, but no because.
Further the conversation youwanna take that thing, it caught
your eye for some reason.
So you wanna take that thing andthen explore, okay, why?
(15:05):
Why did that capture me?
Why was that interesting enoughfor me to write down and looking
for those places where you.
Either wanna add some nuance oryou disagree.
So editors by the way, love anykind of contrarian take.
there's someplace in yourindustry where it's like, okay,
(15:26):
people have way oversimplifiedthis or way over complicated
this, or I just think it's abunch of malarkey, like that
gets editors attention becauseit continues a conversation.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I really like that that filterthat you have, because it does
force you to think like, what ismy perspective on this thing?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
That makes complete
Speaker 5 (15:49):
sense.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah.
And don't be afraid to, youknow, as consultants, our job is
to often give our clients likehard news that they may not
really want to have to dealwith.
Don't be afraid to have the hardstuff in.
Your writing.
Writing as well, because that's,that's what makes you different
and stand out.
(16:10):
That's what, that's what peoplewere responding to.
Sarah, when, when they read yourarticle and they were like, Ooh,
I really like her perspective.
You were saying something in adifferent way.
It that they hadn't either, thatthey hadn't heard before at all,
or you were saying it in a newway that like hit home.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I even, I still remember thatone.
It was about, I mean, this was along time ago.
It was probably like.
2018 maybe.
Um, but it was about how I usepublications, media downloads,
like those PDFs to help buildmy, um, my messaging frameworks
(16:52):
so I can understand theiraudience and then I can, because
they have a lot more money thanme to do market research, so I
can their media kits for that.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Nice.
Oh, I love that.
And that's, that's also a greatway if you're, if you're
thinking about writing for aspecific publication, study how
they set up their articlesbecause they will have, they
will have a pattern.
And once you know what thatpattern is, it also becomes
easier to be like, oh, okay,this is how I, this is how I
(17:22):
plug in.
This is how my thing fits.
Exactly with how they like topresent their ideas.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Yeah, that.
Uh, that's kind of funny toobecause I think we talked in our
pre-call how I write fictionalso.
And, um, everything that you'resaying also kind of applies to
that.
Like if you are pitching amagazine for short story or if
you are pitching an agent tosell your novel, um, or
(17:52):
whatever, you have to do exactlythe same thing that you're
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to show them like, yes,I belong here.
Yes.
fits here.
Yes.
Like you can,
Speaker 5 (18:01):
you and what you want, and this is why this, this
matters.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The worst thing you can do isis, and this happens all the
time.
When I was editing, I often gotthese and it was like, I'd love
to write for your magazine.
Um, and it's like, well, great,but I am not gonna do your work
for you.
Now.
Go do your research and pitch mean actual idea.
Don't make me tell you what yourpitch should be.
Um, and that happens a lot.
(18:27):
So it, you know, on the onehand, not a lot of people
actually go after thesepublications on the other.
Of those who do a good portion,do it poorly, where they either
pitch something that has nothingto do with the price of bread on
Tuesday, or they want the editorto do their work for them.
And then you have the rest,which are often very good
(18:48):
pitches.
Sometimes those are also turneddown, and that can be, not
because the pitch wasn't good,but because oh we just, you
know, we've had it severalarticles about that very same
topic, so not the right fit.
Or we are focused right now oninnovation and creativity, so
like.
Great idea, but it's not theright fit for us right now.
(19:11):
So sometimes you get turneddown, even though it's a great
pitch, but it's just not whatthey are looking for in that
moment.
And then you can pitch againbecause there's no reason not to
pitch again.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Yeah.
and as you're saying that, I'mlike that same thing happens
also in fiction writing, wherean agent will be like, I love
this book, but right now ouragency is focusing on this, this
genre or these specific tropesare doing well for us.
So it
Speaker 3 (19:42):
a hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
on a lot of things.
So.
People are listening to this andthey're like, okay, I can
understand now why I should bepitching these media companies
and, and why it matters, likehow AI is making it evolve in a
way that it actually matters alittle bit more.
(20:04):
And I need to have my uniquePOV.
You mentioned that you can'treally pitch yourself in these
publications.
So for myself, I was looking atthe publications I was in.
They gave me like a little bioat the end.
So people were just googling meafter or clicking on the link to
go to my website after.
(20:26):
But how do you build authoritythrough?
In these publications andshowcasing your, your POV, how
do you, how do you tie that allin together to the thing that
you wanna be known?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah, so the first thing is.
Don't write for high visibilitypublications before you have
your POV figured out.
That's what your blog can begreat for because your your own
blog.
You can delete things if youwant to.
You can update them want to.
(21:00):
You can always manage that.
So you wanna develop your POVthrough writing for your own
platforms.
It can also be for social media,because social media, it lasts a
hot second and nobody's lookingback five years to see what you
posted on LinkedIn.
Because you've kind of hit thecap with where you are.
Are you looking to sort ofrefine your client profile where
(21:23):
it's like, okay, I have thesegreat clients, but.
I'm kind of a set of hands andnot getting to do the real
crunchy, fun, sink your teethinto work that I want to do.
I'm gonna start writing forthese larger publications where
I can start being known forthat.
So in terms of building yourauthority through, through
writing, all of it helps.
(21:45):
By the way, so even the stuffthat's on your website helps.
Once you are writing for apublication, look at what you
know.
Use those articles first andforemost.
So don't just promote it once onLinkedIn and let it like gather
dust in the corner of theinternet someplace.
Make sure you're actively usingit and sharing it.
(22:05):
Specifically with individualsone at a time.
So great to put it out to youremail newsletter if you have an
email newsletter, but alsospecifically to individuals to
be able to say, Hey Sarah, wehad a great conversation a few
weeks ago, like I actually wroteabout it and I wanted to share
that article with you.
That's a great way to kind ofuse it as a tool to help nurture
(22:30):
a relationship.
Is your reputation, if it'sconfusing to the reader what it
is that you stand for.
That hurts your trust and ithurts your reputation because
they don't know, oh, I thought Ithought you did this, but now
you're talking about this otherthing.
So I don't, I don't know whereto put you.
So make sure that everything isconsistently aiming towards that
(22:56):
same, here's what I wanna beknown for.
Make sure every single thingthat you do is, you know,
pointing to that same thing.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I.
I really like that.
So generally when you have aconsultancy or whatever, you
have, an outcome that you'retrying to get for your clients
and that can end up being yourNorth Star.
Like, I want all of my contentto lead to, like, this is why
(24:27):
this outcome will happen if youdo these things.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
And generally what I recommend is use the framework,
the general journey that youtake people through to be your
guideline on what content youshould talk about.
That always leads them to theoutcome.
So it's kind of the
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I love
Speaker 5 (24:47):
becomes your POV.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your POV is like, what is therelationship you wanna build
that and, and that relationshipis based on, I love what you
just said.
It is based on like, what do youwant most for your clients?
That becomes, I always use aforest analogy, so that becomes
like the canopy of the forest,which sets the whole parameters
(25:08):
of your body of work.
A forest canopy is created bywhat are called the mother
trees, the oldest and largesttrees in the forest.
Those are the themes.
So every theme that you talkabout that leads to this.
Canopy, this reputation, andthen you have smaller trees and
shrubs.
Those are the topics.
So under each of your themes,you'll have several topics that
(25:29):
can basically be an unendingnumber of topics.
Then the other thing thatcreates the forest is
underground.
There's a Microrisal network andit connects all of the trees and
shrubs to each other, andthat's, that's us and our
expertise based.
Our, our experience-basedexpertise, that's what we bring
to the table and we tie thewhole thing together.
(25:51):
So if everything we do from theservices we offer, from the
presentations we give, from thearticles we write is sort of
going in that same direction andhelping our clients achieve that
outcome that we most want forthem, then we're in good shape.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, that.
I can picture that exactly.
You can take this writingprocess.
Build relationships that waytoo, by finding authorities
within your niche that you wannainterview and bringing them in,
quoting them in those articles.
And that's another way that youcan extend your reach even more
(26:31):
by building relationships.
And then you're also giving themthis amazing spotlight because
you're pitching it topublications and they get
mentioned in it.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
For certain publications.
So that's one of those thingsthat if that's one of your
goals, to be able to interviewother experts, to be able to
interview and profile some ofyour clients.
Set that goal first because thatwill help you figure out which
publications to select.
Some allow you to do that.
Like Ink allows you to, quoteother experts to profile client
(27:04):
stories, that kind of thing.
Entrepreneur does not.
So knowing what each, what youwant out of this whole thing and
then being able to.
Pair your goals for yourbusiness with the publication
that can actually help youachieve those goals.
That's, that's sort of the nice,the nice, combination there.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
From my perspective, a high visibility publication is
any publication that will helpyou achieve your business goals.
And oftentimes, like we oftentalk about the big ones, Inc.
Entrepreneur, Forbes, HarvardBusiness Review, but oftentimes
it's the associationpublication.
So don't.
Neglect those because that canbe a great way to get exactly in
(27:47):
front of the exact right people.
And it may not have the sexappeal, but it often has a much
better return on investment.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
That's really good advice.
I hadn't even, that hadn't evenoccurred to me to pitch
associations.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And certain for certainconsultants, like if you are a
specialty in like manufacturing.
Find the manufacturingassociations, because first your
clients are probably members.
They are also probably readingwhatever the association
actually puts out, and theassociation probably has a bunch
of other ways that you might beable to get involved.
(28:27):
So they probably host aconference at some point.
They might host webinars, theymight, you know.
They might have a podcast.
So there are other ways thatonce you have sort of shown the
association folks like, Hey,look, I'm providing real value
to your members.
I'm not just looking at yourmembers as walking wallets.
Which associations have had alot of that experience where
people come in and just treattheir members like walking
(28:48):
wallets.
So that.
That's a much more relationalsituation, but once you're in
and you show that you areproviding their members with
real value, they are going to behappy to find, oh, what are
other ways that you can connectwith our members, because that
helps us.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
I love that advice and that just reminded me this
also can apply to communities.
So one of my clients, she writesarticles for a specific
community with like womenentrepreneurs in it, and she has
gotten multiple clients fromthose articles.
Just people seeing it.
(29:24):
Then she gets opportunities tobe on their podcast or be a
guest speaker in that community.
So that's another, like anotherway that you can like find where
your ICP hangs out and buildyour authority there.
Mm-hmm
Speaker 4 (29:41):
everything in value, and you just, you can't go
wrong.
that's what you're there for.
Anchor it in value, provide goodstuff, and that's, that's what
helps build the authority,because now I see, oh.
This is somebody I really liketheir worldview.
I like their perspective.
I like what they bring to it.
And then it's the smaller thingslike, you know, if you say
(30:02):
studies show please for the loveof God, cite a study.
Like, have links.
Where it's like, yes, here's,here's how I am an authority.
This is why, here's some morereasons why you should trust me.
Not in an obnoxious way, butthat's where clients, client
case studies also can be very,very helpful.
Where you say something like,you know, oh I, you know, I was
(30:24):
working with, and sometimes youcan't name the client and that's
okay.
I was working with a Fortune 500company on this particular thing
that immediately also someauthority.
'cause it's like, oh, okay, thisis somebody who like.
They're in the know, they'reworking with clients that have
problems similar to ours.
They're, you know, that kind ofthing.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And your comment on somepublications allow it, some
don't.
I know that firsthand because alot writers, that I'm friends
with, they would reach out to meto.
To quote, and they're like, andtwo of them one, one wrote for
entrepreneur, one wrote forThrive, and them were like, they
(31:05):
don't allow me to do thatanymore.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so that's, that's part of ittoo.
And also making sure that whenyou do quote somebody else,
because once you start writingfor a publication, you will have
PR folks come out of thewoodwork and pitch you on
interviewing their clients.
That's their job.
So it's a hundred percent okaythat they do it.
(31:29):
Your job is to basically figureout, okay.
Would this, is this anassociation that I want that is
good for me and my brand?
Because you're, you're writingto build your own authority,
right?
So keeping that top of mind andbeing able to say, okay, but
here's someplace where thisperson can add some nuance and
have an interesting conversationthat makes it even more
(31:50):
valuable.
But I'm not.
I'm not just suddenly becoming areporter because you're not a
reporter, that's not your job.
And especially figuring that outearly so you don't get caught
off guard when somebody's like,oh, you should interview me for
your article in Inc.
And you're like, oh my God, butI don't even know you.
Or, oh my God, but.
(32:12):
No,
Speaker 5 (32:13):
That happens when you have a podcast too, all the
time.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
preach.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
pitched every single day.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So knowing what you're gonna sayyes to and what you say no to
from the beginning and sort ofhaving some guidelines around
that for yourself will make iteasier.
So when it does happen, youaren't completely caught off
guard.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
And I'm, I'm gonna steal thatfrom my podcasting too,'cause I
end up getting overwhelmed and Iprobably delete wonderful
pitches that would make sense tome, but it's just so
overwhelming that I'm like,delete.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, so that same feeling is what editors are
feeling when they're gettingpitched, which is part of why,
you know, it's also often youwill have to follow up with an
editor because their inbox is ahot mess of crazy.
They have thousands of pitchesin there.
So what I always recommend is atthe end of the pitch saying, if
I don't hear back from you in 10days, I will follow up.
(33:11):
And then mark your calendar andfollow up in 10 days, and it's
basically forwarding thatoriginal pitch to them again, so
they don't have to dig throughtheir email to find it and ask,
asking again, and thatresurfaces it so that it gives a
better chance of seeing it.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
that's really good.
I like going into my sense and.
Hitting reply.
So then it's an ari at thebeginning.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That seems to have a little bit, more sway when they
see the ari.
Like, oh,
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I hadn't thought of that, but that totally works.
that's smart.
I Okay.
Do what Sarah said.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Yeah.
Because they assume that we'vecontinued the conversation.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh my gosh.
That's brilliant.
Yes, yes.
that
Speaker 6 (33:57):
We'll that.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Okay.
Anybody who wants to work withyou or find you online, how
would they do that?
Speaker 4 (34:04):
So my website is catchline communications.com.
That is a great place to see allof the things, more information
than you would ever need.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Excellent.
And can you tell us about theAuthority Lab?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, so I love the Authority Lab.
And then we open the floor toquestions and any questions that
folks have in the room.
I stick around and I answerthem, and we go for about an
hour, and I do it every singlemonth.
So it's one of those thingswhere you can register once and
then you can come whenever itsuits your schedule.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Awesome.
I have the link for that, soI'll make sure that it's in the
show notes and hey, I'm, I mightcome that, that
Speaker 4 (34:44):
You would be so more than welcome.
That's other thing is there arealways, there's a lot of wisdom
in the room, so I alwaysencourage folks in the room,
like pipe up, get to know eachother as well, because I have
the experience.
I have.
But you just said that like goback into your send and like
reply and I was like.
(35:05):
Brilliant.
Never would've occurred to meever in a million years.
So yeah, you would be more thanwelcome, Sarah.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Oh, thank you.
I'm gonna sign up.
I think this was incrediblyhelpful and I can't wait to
share it.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Well, thank you so much.
This was absolutely lovely.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Yes.
Okay.
Speaker (35:25):
If this episode made things go a little more doable,
I'd love to help you take thenext step with the Booked Out
Blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
Welcome to the Tiny Marketing Podcast.
I'm Sarah Noal Block, and thisshow is made for solo
consultants who wanna get bookedout without burning out.
If you've ever thought, I justwant this to feel easier, you're
not alone.
Around here, we focus on simple,sustainable growth that actually
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overwhelming.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
Today we are talking about how to build authority
with writing, which I, I'mexcited about because I, I'm a
writer.
We talk, Erica and I talkedabout that on our pre-call.
I love writing more thananything, but there is.
I think like a fear ortrepidation with a lot of people
(00:42):
that writing isn't as relevantas it used to be because of,
well, AI obviously, and waningattention spans.
So I am excited to get into thistopic and we're also gonna talk
about how you can create aunique POV so you're not just
blending in with everybody else.
(01:04):
And that also kind of solvesthat AI issue because if you are
giving that unique POV, nobodyelse is because a lot of them
are just putting like copy andpasting from jbc.
Erica, thank you so much forjoining me today.
Do you think you could introduceyourself the audience?
Speaker 4 (01:22):
Of course, Sarah, thank you so much for having me
and it.
Yeah, so my name is EricaHolsen.
I am an authority developmentconsultant.
So like Sarah, I have abackground in writing and I was
a freelance writer and editorfor over 20 years, and now I use
that information to helpconsultants build their
authority through writing,whether they're writing for
their blog newsletter or for ahigh visibility publication.
Speaker 5 (01:45):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So real quick.
I want to get into like, I thinkthe meat here is the authority
that you can build with yourwriting and a unique POV, but
because you touched on that youwere a journalist and you have
some insider information aboutai, can you tell me what you
(02:09):
told me on the pre-call abouthow AI is getting their
information And Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:16):
It's fascinating, so I.
Remember back in the day whenpublications were all print and
advertising was all in printpublications and making that
transition from printpublications to digital and a
number of the publications thatI wrote for at the time didn't
survive that transition.
(02:37):
Now we're in another transition.
So these publications havealways relied very heavily on
advertising revenue.
And now with ai, people are lesslikely to go to Google to search
for something, click through toread the answer.
They're instead going to ClaudeChat, GPT Gemini, asking the
question there.
Getting an answer and they'renot clicking through.
(03:00):
So advertising website revenue,website traffic is down, which
means advertising revenue isdown for these publications.
So.
They're having to make anadjustment and they're adjusting
in a few different ways.
But the way that I think isultimately going to actually
work is more and morepublications are starting to
(03:20):
license the content on theirplatforms to AI companies so
that AI companies have.
Human generated content to trainon because if an AI trains on
its own stuff, it's sort of likemaking a photocopy of a
photocopy of a photocopy afterwhile.
Just
Speaker 6 (03:38):
more bland and more bland.
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It gets like worse and worse andworse and just like implodes.
So that's changing A lot of theway.
Publications are looking atcontent.
They're looking at stuff thatis.
Uniquely human.
And similarly, ai, you now have,like, we used to deal with SEO
(04:01):
and, and I have a lot ofopinions on it because for the
most part, I don't think it'sall that essential for, high-end
consultants.
So we used to talk a lot aboutthat.
We are now talking aboutgenerative engine optimization.
Generative engine optimizationis looking at the entire digital
(04:21):
landscape and it's able toconnect everything in the
digital landscape to Sarah, toErica, to to you.
So the more that you are puttingthings out there that have a
digital footprint, generativeai, generative.
Engine optimization can kind oflook at that whole thing.
(04:42):
And again, what it is lookingfor is stuff that it cannot
create.
AI can summarize what's outthere in the world.
It is never gonna take risks.
It is never going to makeconnections between things that
are completely disparate.
That's what humans can do.
Humans can take risks.
Humans can get into like themessy stuff and humans can sort
(05:06):
of make those new connectionsthat AI is not capable of.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
Okay, so I wanted to start with that because my
thought was people will see the.
This topic and they'll be like,oh, AI makes this irrelevant
now.
And I wanted to really get intothat piece first, that it
actually matters a lot more towrite and to write in varied
(05:30):
places instead of just havingyour blog being featured in
other media publications mattersmore.
Now it shows more of yourauthority.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, it's, it's now, it's going to become harder to
get into these otherpublications, but it's going to
matter a lot more.
Now it's more about.
Really that unique human angle,what can you bring to it?
So it's what can you bring tothe publication?
Not only like, yes, it has to bereally good for their readers.
(06:01):
That's what they will alwaysjudge based on.
But then it also has to havethat thing that AI cannot do,
that they can license it tothose AI companies.
Otherwise, that licensingagreement's not worth very much.
Speaker 5 (06:15):
Yeah, that makes complete sense and I'm glad we
talked about that right at thetop.
So let's
Speaker 4 (06:25):
Yeah, so first a lot of people don't try, so keep
that
Speaker 5 (06:29):
So try.
Speaker 4 (06:29):
mind first So first is try Second is, you know, a
lot of publications will havesomething that is, they'll have
contributor guidelines if theyhave contributor guide.
Follow them Exactly.
And to the extent that if itsays, your subject line in your
(06:50):
pitch should read, boom, boom,boom.
Make sure your subject linereads boom, boom, boom.
So don't give them a reason toto ignore you before you, you've
even been able to make yourcase.
And then it's really followtraditional, traditional pitch.
Ideas like we have all beenpitched, I guarantee you go to
(07:12):
the spam folder right now inyour email.
I guarantee you there's a pitchthere that you're like, what
does this have to do with theprice of BRI on Tuesday?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
I just deleted a whole bunch of those that came
in the weekend.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like if you bothered to dotwo seconds of research, you
would know that this is not afit.
Same thing.
So a lot of editors get a ton ofpitches that have nothing to do
with.
What their magazine actuallywrites about.
So make sure that your idea istailored to the publication
itself.
(07:42):
There's a whole reallyrelatively simple process, but
we can get stuck in our headabout it, where it's just like,
give them the hook.
I also, by the way, recommendwriting the article before you
pitch the article because assomebody who is writing to build
your authority, your writingwill never, ever, ever, ever,
ever go to waste.
Because if they don't say yes,you can put it on your blog.
(08:05):
You can put it on Medium, youcan put it on LinkedIn, you can
put it all the other places.
Yeah, so when you pitch apublication, follow the
contributor guidelines, butbasically you are giving them a
little hook, like why is this ofinterest?
Why should their readers care?
Why you.
Like, are you just a person withan opinion?
(08:27):
Because all of us fit thatcategory.
So why specifically are you theright person to be writing about
that specific topic?
And then what is the solution?
What is, what is the problemthat it is going to help the
readers solve?
And.
What is your unique take on howto actually solve that problem?
(08:48):
So publications are alwayslooking for actionable insights.
They don't just want, they don'twant you to be overly
promotional.
They don't just want a talkinghead.
They want their readers to beable to read something and go,
oh, here's a way I can take onesmall step towards.
Navigating this tricky issue,solving this challenge,
(09:12):
addressing this challenge, thatkind of thing.
So you say, who does this pieceserve?
What is the objective?
In other words, why will thisspecific audience feel compelled
to read it?
What will they get out of it?
So how will their thinkingmindset or behavior change?
And will this enhance ordiminish your reputation?
So is it in alignment with whatyou are trying to be known for
(09:37):
out in the world?
Speaker 5 (09:39):
I really like that I.
I remember when I first startedmy business, that's, that's how
I got started was I would writearticles and I would pitch
publications with them, andthat's how I got my first two
clients was they just saw mybyline and the little bio at the
end and they're like, I likewhat I liked your perspective,
(10:03):
and that like, that propelledeverything else.
That made me also realize that.
Partnerships, borrowing otherpeople's audiences is the
easiest way to grow.
And six years later, I'm stillborrowing other people's
audiences and doing the samething.
Speaker 4 (10:26):
yeah.
Anytime you can borrow somebodyelse's audience, it means you
don't have to build your ownaudience.
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Mm-hmm.
And can convert
Speaker 4 (10:33):
keep building your own audience, and that will,
that's always something we'reworking on, but it lets you tap
into one that's alreadyestablished, already interested,
and you get that added benefitof, You know, this is, this is
somebody, somebody vetted youand okay, this is somebody who
has something that my readers,my listeners, my community, they
(10:57):
are going to find valuable.
So that gives you that addedcredibility and trustworthiness
because you're borrowing that aswell as the audience.
Speaker 5 (11:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right.
all different ways that you canleverage someone else's audience
to build your own.
And.
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Yeah
Speaker 5 (11:15):
Just my, my little 2 cents.
Always have something for themto do next that would connect
them and convert them into youraudience too.
So like Erica, I was like,what's your lead magnet?
Because it's important.
It's important that like ifsomething resonates and they
want to stay connected with you,they need a way to be able to do
(11:36):
that immediately.
Otherwise they'd be like, Iloved Erica.
And then they'll go on abouttheir day, but now
Speaker 4 (11:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (11:45):
to be able to connect with you on.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Which is one of the challenges with publications
because some publications won'tactually allow you.
To have a pitch at the end.
That's one of the reasons Ialways say like, your
perspective is yourdifferentiator.
That's the thing that different.
We get into differentiation and,and we make it way more
complicated than it needs to be.
(12:08):
If something happens fromsomebody reading your article
like it did with you.
Awesome.
Fantastic.
Don't expect it though.
Where those publications areeven more valuable is it turns
it into an asset that can helpyou with your sales process.
So you now have a business assetthat you can use to introduce
(12:30):
yourself to somebody to have oneof your referral partners
introduce you to the right folksto follow up.
On an initial conversation with,Hey, I wrote this article, this
was, it touches on some of whatwe talked about.
I thought it would be ofinterest.
So using it as an asset and notexpecting it's not a one and
(12:52):
done, like getting published isawesome, but you aren't writing
to get published.
You're getting published toachieve a specific business
goal.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Yeah, that's a good segue too.
And into how do you create yourown unique POV, so people, so
these publications actually careto, to publish you So what the
first thing that you recommendfor people to do?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
so part of that really is a practice, and for
some of us, you kind of writeyour way into it and then it's
like, huh.
Cool.
Everyone will never be a hit,ever, ever, ever.
So.
Some of it is you keep writingand also interrogating your own
ideas.
That's one of the reasons that Ilove writing, is it lets me
(13:38):
interrogate my own ideas and thewriting has to stand by itself
and on its own two feet withspeaking.
I can self-correct, I can readthe room, I can interact with
people and, and you know, Sarah,you can come back and be like,
Hey, say more about that.
While I like just railroadthrough with writing.
(14:00):
You can't, you can't do all ofthat self-correction.
So it has to stand on its own.
So it starts to let you see,huh, do I really believe this?
that's interesting.
So often when I do a firstdraft, I use a lot of brackets.
But I'll put brackets sometimesand be like, do I?
Do I really think this?
(14:20):
And then it forces me to reallythink deeply.
So part of that is part of thepractice and it's also.
For developing your perspectiveand your point of view.
It's reading or listening toother things, and anything that
catches your attention.
Write down the quote, write downwhere you got the quote, and
(14:43):
then use one of I, I always usethese three prompts in response
to it.
Yes and yes, but no because.
Further the conversation youwanna take that thing, it caught
your eye for some reason.
So you wanna take that thing andthen explore, okay, why?
(15:05):
Why did that capture me?
Why was that interesting enoughfor me to write down and looking
for those places where you.
Either wanna add some nuance oryou disagree.
So editors by the way, love anykind of contrarian take.
there's someplace in yourindustry where it's like, okay,
(15:26):
people have way oversimplifiedthis or way over complicated
this, or I just think it's abunch of malarkey, like that
gets editors attention becauseit continues a conversation.
Speaker 5 (15:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I really like that that filterthat you have, because it does
force you to think like, what ismy perspective on this thing?
Speaker 6 (15:48):
That makes complete
Speaker 5 (15:49):
sense.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Yeah.
And don't be afraid to, youknow, as consultants, our job is
to often give our clients likehard news that they may not
really want to have to dealwith.
Don't be afraid to have the hardstuff in.
Your writing.
Writing as well, because that's,that's what makes you different
and stand out.
(16:10):
That's what, that's what peoplewere responding to.
Sarah, when, when they read yourarticle and they were like, Ooh,
I really like her perspective.
You were saying something in adifferent way.
It that they hadn't either, thatthey hadn't heard before at all,
or you were saying it in a newway that like hit home.
Speaker 5 (16:29):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I even, I still remember thatone.
It was about, I mean, this was along time ago.
It was probably like.
2018 maybe.
Um, but it was about how I usepublications, media downloads,
like those PDFs to help buildmy, um, my messaging frameworks
(16:52):
so I can understand theiraudience and then I can, because
they have a lot more money thanme to do market research, so I
can their media kits for that.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Nice.
Oh, I love that.
And that's, that's also a greatway if you're, if you're
thinking about writing for aspecific publication, study how
they set up their articlesbecause they will have, they
will have a pattern.
And once you know what thatpattern is, it also becomes
easier to be like, oh, okay,this is how I, this is how I
(17:22):
plug in.
This is how my thing fits.
Exactly with how they like topresent their ideas.
Speaker 5 (17:29):
Yeah, that.
Uh, that's kind of funny toobecause I think we talked in our
pre-call how I write fictionalso.
And, um, everything that you'resaying also kind of applies to
that.
Like if you are pitching amagazine for short story or if
you are pitching an agent tosell your novel, um, or
(17:52):
whatever, you have to do exactlythe same thing that you're
Speaker 4 (17:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You have to show them like, yes,I belong here.
Yes.
fits here.
Yes.
Like you can,
Speaker 5 (18:01):
you and what you want, and this is why this, this
matters.
Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
The worst thing you can do isis, and this happens all the
time.
When I was editing, I often gotthese and it was like, I'd love
to write for your magazine.
Um, and it's like, well, great,but I am not gonna do your work
for you.
Now.
Go do your research and pitch mean actual idea.
Don't make me tell you what yourpitch should be.
Um, and that happens a lot.
(18:27):
So it, you know, on the onehand, not a lot of people
actually go after thesepublications on the other.
Of those who do a good portion,do it poorly, where they either
pitch something that has nothingto do with the price of bread on
Tuesday, or they want the editorto do their work for them.
And then you have the rest,which are often very good
(18:48):
pitches.
Sometimes those are also turneddown, and that can be, not
because the pitch wasn't good,but because oh we just, you
know, we've had it severalarticles about that very same
topic, so not the right fit.
Or we are focused right now oninnovation and creativity, so
like.
Great idea, but it's not theright fit for us right now.
(19:11):
So sometimes you get turneddown, even though it's a great
pitch, but it's just not whatthey are looking for in that
moment.
And then you can pitch againbecause there's no reason not to
pitch again.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
Yeah.
and as you're saying that, I'mlike that same thing happens
also in fiction writing, wherean agent will be like, I love
this book, but right now ouragency is focusing on this, this
genre or these specific tropesare doing well for us.
So it
Speaker 3 (19:42):
a hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (19:44):
on a lot of things.
So.
People are listening to this andthey're like, okay, I can
understand now why I should bepitching these media companies
and, and why it matters, likehow AI is making it evolve in a
way that it actually matters alittle bit more.
(20:04):
And I need to have my uniquePOV.
You mentioned that you can'treally pitch yourself in these
publications.
So for myself, I was looking atthe publications I was in.
They gave me like a little bioat the end.
So people were just googling meafter or clicking on the link to
go to my website after.
(20:26):
But how do you build authoritythrough?
In these publications andshowcasing your, your POV, how
do you, how do you tie that allin together to the thing that
you wanna be known?
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Yeah, so the first thing is.
Don't write for high visibilitypublications before you have
your POV figured out.
That's what your blog can begreat for because your your own
blog.
You can delete things if youwant to.
You can update them want to.
(21:00):
You can always manage that.
So you wanna develop your POVthrough writing for your own
platforms.
It can also be for social media,because social media, it lasts a
hot second and nobody's lookingback five years to see what you
posted on LinkedIn.
Because you've kind of hit thecap with where you are.
Are you looking to sort ofrefine your client profile where
(21:23):
it's like, okay, I have thesegreat clients, but.
I'm kind of a set of hands andnot getting to do the real
crunchy, fun, sink your teethinto work that I want to do.
I'm gonna start writing forthese larger publications where
I can start being known forthat.
So in terms of building yourauthority through, through
writing, all of it helps.
(21:45):
By the way, so even the stuffthat's on your website helps.
Once you are writing for apublication, look at what you
know.
Use those articles first andforemost.
So don't just promote it once onLinkedIn and let it like gather
dust in the corner of theinternet someplace.
Make sure you're actively usingit and sharing it.
(22:05):
Specifically with individualsone at a time.
So great to put it out to youremail newsletter if you have an
email newsletter, but alsospecifically to individuals to
be able to say, Hey Sarah, wehad a great conversation a few
weeks ago, like I actually wroteabout it and I wanted to share
that article with you.
That's a great way to kind ofuse it as a tool to help nurture
(22:30):
a relationship.
Is your reputation, if it'sconfusing to the reader what it
is that you stand for.
That hurts your trust and ithurts your reputation because
they don't know, oh, I thought Ithought you did this, but now
you're talking about this otherthing.
So I don't, I don't know whereto put you.
So make sure that everything isconsistently aiming towards that
(22:56):
same, here's what I wanna beknown for.
Make sure every single thingthat you do is, you know,
pointing to that same thing.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I.
I really like that.
So generally when you have aconsultancy or whatever, you
have, an outcome that you'retrying to get for your clients
and that can end up being yourNorth Star.
Like, I want all of my contentto lead to, like, this is why
(24:27):
this outcome will happen if youdo these things.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (24:32):
And generally what I recommend is use the framework,
the general journey that youtake people through to be your
guideline on what content youshould talk about.
That always leads them to theoutcome.
So it's kind of the
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I love
Speaker 5 (24:47):
becomes your POV.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your POV is like, what is therelationship you wanna build
that and, and that relationshipis based on, I love what you
just said.
It is based on like, what do youwant most for your clients?
That becomes, I always use aforest analogy, so that becomes
like the canopy of the forest,which sets the whole parameters
(25:08):
of your body of work.
A forest canopy is created bywhat are called the mother
trees, the oldest and largesttrees in the forest.
Those are the themes.
So every theme that you talkabout that leads to this.
Canopy, this reputation, andthen you have smaller trees and
shrubs.
Those are the topics.
So under each of your themes,you'll have several topics that
(25:29):
can basically be an unendingnumber of topics.
Then the other thing thatcreates the forest is
underground.
There's a Microrisal network andit connects all of the trees and
shrubs to each other, andthat's, that's us and our
expertise based.
Our, our experience-basedexpertise, that's what we bring
to the table and we tie thewhole thing together.
(25:51):
So if everything we do from theservices we offer, from the
presentations we give, from thearticles we write is sort of
going in that same direction andhelping our clients achieve that
outcome that we most want forthem, then we're in good shape.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
Yeah, that.
I can picture that exactly.
You can take this writingprocess.
Build relationships that waytoo, by finding authorities
within your niche that you wannainterview and bringing them in,
quoting them in those articles.
And that's another way that youcan extend your reach even more
(26:31):
by building relationships.
And then you're also giving themthis amazing spotlight because
you're pitching it topublications and they get
mentioned in it.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
For certain publications.
So that's one of those thingsthat if that's one of your
goals, to be able to interviewother experts, to be able to
interview and profile some ofyour clients.
Set that goal first because thatwill help you figure out which
publications to select.
Some allow you to do that.
Like Ink allows you to, quoteother experts to profile client
(27:04):
stories, that kind of thing.
Entrepreneur does not.
So knowing what each, what youwant out of this whole thing and
then being able to.
Pair your goals for yourbusiness with the publication
that can actually help youachieve those goals.
That's, that's sort of the nice,the nice, combination there.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
From my perspective, a high visibility publication is
any publication that will helpyou achieve your business goals.
And oftentimes, like we oftentalk about the big ones, Inc.
Entrepreneur, Forbes, HarvardBusiness Review, but oftentimes
it's the associationpublication.
So don't.
Neglect those because that canbe a great way to get exactly in
(27:47):
front of the exact right people.
And it may not have the sexappeal, but it often has a much
better return on investment.
Speaker 5 (27:57):
That's really good advice.
I hadn't even, that hadn't evenoccurred to me to pitch
associations.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And certain for certainconsultants, like if you are a
specialty in like manufacturing.
Find the manufacturingassociations, because first your
clients are probably members.
They are also probably readingwhatever the association
actually puts out, and theassociation probably has a bunch
of other ways that you might beable to get involved.
(28:27):
So they probably host aconference at some point.
They might host webinars, theymight, you know.
They might have a podcast.
So there are other ways thatonce you have sort of shown the
association folks like, Hey,look, I'm providing real value
to your members.
I'm not just looking at yourmembers as walking wallets.
Which associations have had alot of that experience where
people come in and just treattheir members like walking
(28:48):
wallets.
So that.
That's a much more relationalsituation, but once you're in
and you show that you areproviding their members with
real value, they are going to behappy to find, oh, what are
other ways that you can connectwith our members, because that
helps us.
Speaker 5 (29:04):
I love that advice and that just reminded me this
also can apply to communities.
So one of my clients, she writesarticles for a specific
community with like womenentrepreneurs in it, and she has
gotten multiple clients fromthose articles.
Just people seeing it.
(29:24):
Then she gets opportunities tobe on their podcast or be a
guest speaker in that community.
So that's another, like anotherway that you can like find where
your ICP hangs out and buildyour authority there.
Mm-hmm
Speaker 4 (29:41):
everything in value, and you just, you can't go
wrong.
that's what you're there for.
Anchor it in value, provide goodstuff, and that's, that's what
helps build the authority,because now I see, oh.
This is somebody I really liketheir worldview.
I like their perspective.
I like what they bring to it.
And then it's the smaller thingslike, you know, if you say
(30:02):
studies show please for the loveof God, cite a study.
Like, have links.
Where it's like, yes, here's,here's how I am an authority.
This is why, here's some morereasons why you should trust me.
Not in an obnoxious way, butthat's where clients, client
case studies also can be very,very helpful.
Where you say something like,you know, oh I, you know, I was
(30:24):
working with, and sometimes youcan't name the client and that's
okay.
I was working with a Fortune 500company on this particular thing
that immediately also someauthority.
'cause it's like, oh, okay, thisis somebody who like.
They're in the know, they'reworking with clients that have
problems similar to ours.
They're, you know, that kind ofthing.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, that makes sense.
And your comment on somepublications allow it, some
don't.
I know that firsthand because alot writers, that I'm friends
with, they would reach out to meto.
To quote, and they're like, andtwo of them one, one wrote for
entrepreneur, one wrote forThrive, and them were like, they
(31:05):
don't allow me to do thatanymore.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yep.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so that's, that's part of ittoo.
And also making sure that whenyou do quote somebody else,
because once you start writingfor a publication, you will have
PR folks come out of thewoodwork and pitch you on
interviewing their clients.
That's their job.
So it's a hundred percent okaythat they do it.
(31:29):
Your job is to basically figureout, okay.
Would this, is this anassociation that I want that is
good for me and my brand?
Because you're, you're writingto build your own authority,
right?
So keeping that top of mind andbeing able to say, okay, but
here's someplace where thisperson can add some nuance and
have an interesting conversationthat makes it even more
(31:50):
valuable.
But I'm not.
I'm not just suddenly becoming areporter because you're not a
reporter, that's not your job.
And especially figuring that outearly so you don't get caught
off guard when somebody's like,oh, you should interview me for
your article in Inc.
And you're like, oh my God, butI don't even know you.
Or, oh my God, but.
(32:12):
No,
Speaker 5 (32:13):
That happens when you have a podcast too, all the
time.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
preach.
Yes.
Speaker 5 (32:18):
pitched every single day.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So knowing what you're gonna sayyes to and what you say no to
from the beginning and sort ofhaving some guidelines around
that for yourself will make iteasier.
So when it does happen, youaren't completely caught off
guard.
Speaker 5 (32:34):
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
And I'm, I'm gonna steal thatfrom my podcasting too,'cause I
end up getting overwhelmed and Iprobably delete wonderful
pitches that would make sense tome, but it's just so
overwhelming that I'm like,delete.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Yeah, so that same feeling is what editors are
feeling when they're gettingpitched, which is part of why,
you know, it's also often youwill have to follow up with an
editor because their inbox is ahot mess of crazy.
They have thousands of pitchesin there.
So what I always recommend is atthe end of the pitch saying, if
I don't hear back from you in 10days, I will follow up.
(33:11):
And then mark your calendar andfollow up in 10 days, and it's
basically forwarding thatoriginal pitch to them again, so
they don't have to dig throughtheir email to find it and ask,
asking again, and thatresurfaces it so that it gives a
better chance of seeing it.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
that's really good.
I like going into my sense and.
Hitting reply.
So then it's an ari at thebeginning.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (33:37):
That seems to have a little bit, more sway when they
see the ari.
Like, oh,
Speaker 4 (33:42):
I hadn't thought of that, but that totally works.
that's smart.
I Okay.
Do what Sarah said.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
Yeah.
Because they assume that we'vecontinued the conversation.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Oh my gosh.
That's brilliant.
Yes, yes.
that
Speaker 6 (33:57):
We'll that.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Okay.
Anybody who wants to work withyou or find you online, how
would they do that?
Speaker 4 (34:04):
So my website is catchline communications.com.
That is a great place to see allof the things, more information
than you would ever need.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Excellent.
And can you tell us about theAuthority Lab?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Yeah, so I love the Authority Lab.
And then we open the floor toquestions and any questions that
folks have in the room.
I stick around and I answerthem, and we go for about an
hour, and I do it every singlemonth.
So it's one of those thingswhere you can register once and
then you can come whenever itsuits your schedule.
Speaker 5 (34:35):
Awesome.
I have the link for that, soI'll make sure that it's in the
show notes and hey, I'm, I mightcome that, that
Speaker 4 (34:44):
You would be so more than welcome.
That's other thing is there arealways, there's a lot of wisdom
in the room, so I alwaysencourage folks in the room,
like pipe up, get to know eachother as well, because I have
the experience.
I have.
But you just said that like goback into your send and like
reply and I was like.
(35:05):
Brilliant.
Never would've occurred to meever in a million years.
So yeah, you would be more thanwelcome, Sarah.
Speaker 5 (35:11):
Oh, thank you.
I'm gonna sign up.
I think this was incrediblyhelpful and I can't wait to
share it.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Well, thank you so much.
This was absolutely lovely.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Yes.
Okay.
Speaker (35:25):
If this episode made things go a little more doable,
I'd love to help you take thenext step with the Booked Out
Blueprint.
It's a practical, low pressuresession to clarify your offers,
your marketing, and whatactually moves the needle.
You can book yours through thelink in the show notes.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
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