June 9, 2025 • 52 mins
We’re calling out the outdated, fear-based, and sometimes downright harmful approaches that still dominate the fitness and rehab industries.
I’m joined by Autumn Halazon, a personal trainer, Pilates instructor, and founder of Halazon Fitness with over 27 years of experience. From her early days in a full-contact boxing gym to her evolution into fascia-based, intuitive movement coaching, Autumn brings a no-nonsense, whole-body perspective to fitness for women over 40.
We explore how the “textbook form” obsession, aesthetic pressure, and shame-based coaching create pain—not progress. We also unpack how overtraining, instructor ego, and nervous system dysregulation sabotage long-term results for clients…and what to do instead.
Whether you’re a clinician, fitness pro, or just sick of toxic wellness culture, this one’s for you.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode
- Why many fitness certifications don’t prepare you for real bodies
- How form obsession and body shaming sneak into even “wellness”-based spaces
- The harmful legacy of ‘knees over toes,’ posterior tilts, and ‘don’t arch your back’
- How exercise intolerance, chronic pain, and burnout are often signs of nervous system dysregulation
- What happens when movement is used as a trauma response
- Why interoception—body awareness—is the real foundation of strength
- How to coach clients who say “I don’t like strength training” (without forcing it)
- Why overcorrecting or over-cueing is harmful
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction to TMI Talk with Dr. Mary
00:35 Meet Autumn Halazon: A Fitness Journey
01:19 Challenging Traditional Fitness Norms
03:37 Real-Life Client Experiences
05:02 The Importance of Individualized Training
06:27 Addressing Body Image and Trauma
08:54 Ego and Exercise: A Personal Reflection
11:06 Bridging the Gap Between PT and Fitness
13:23 Empowering Clients Through Education
14:37 Understanding and Teaching Body Awareness
22:47 Healing Relationships with Exercise
27:33 Unlearning Old Fitness Myths
28:31 The Importance of Strength Training
29:49 Motivating Reluctant Clients
31:57 Balancing Self-Love and Discipline
34:03 The Influence of Social Media on Fitness
42:58 The Role of Certifications and Intuition
48:30 The Value of Referrals and Holistic Approaches
50:20 Conclusion and Contact Information
You can learn more about Autumn below:
https://www.halazonfitness.com
If you are a health or movement professional and want to stay in touch with future episodes, webinars, courses, events and more. Subscribe to my email list here
I’ll see you in a week!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
mary (00:00):
Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr.
Mary.
This conversation today, we'regonna be calling out some of the
outdated fear-based and quitefrankly, unrealistic approaches
that have dominated the fitnessand rehab industry for decades.
We dive into why so manytraditional certifications and
textbooks and fitness modelsdon't actually match the reality
(00:22):
of the bodies that we actuallywork with.
And how this mismatch cansometimes subconsciously and
unknowingly reinforce pain,shame, and even trauma in our
clients.
To discuss this, I brought onAutumn Halazon.
She's a personal trainer, aPilates instructor, and the
owner of Halazon Fitness withover 27 years in the fitness
(00:46):
industry.
She began at age 16 in a fullcontact boxing gym, and later
shifted her focus afterovercoming hormonal challenges
over training and burnout.
Autumn has completed extensivecontinuing education in
mobility, biomechanics, andfascial SY systems, including
trainings from Tom Myers.
(01:07):
She helps women over 40 buildstrength, balance and body
awareness through sustainableintentional movement as part of
Halazon Fitness and her FeelYour Core program.
In this episode, we're gonnalearn why real progress starts
by teaching people to trusttheir bodies, again, not forcing
them into textbook perfectforms.
(01:29):
How chronic stress, nervoussystem dysregulation and
outdated movement cues such asknees over toes, are sabotaging
client results.
Why empowering clients to listento their interception, so their
inner body awareness and workwith their body instead of
against it, which is the futureof where rehab and movement are
(01:50):
going.
How subtle ways the ego, even asclinicians, even myself.
It can creep into how we workwith clients and how to shift
more to an overall healingcollaborative approach.
How over exercising aesthetic,obsession, and no pain, no gain
culture have distorted ourindustries and how to actually
reframe movement for truestrength function, and
(02:13):
resilience.
Whether you're a pt, a Pilatesinstructor, a personal trainer
or rehab clinician, if you'retired of rigid protocols, you
want to bridge a gap betweenfitness and healing and are
ready to create sustainable andempowering outcomes for your
clients.
This episode is a must listenfor you, so now we'll get to it.
Welcome back to TMI talk withDr.
(02:35):
Mary where we dive intonon-traditional forms of health
that were once labeled as tabooor dismissed as Woo.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mary.
I'm an orthopedic and pelvicfloor physical therapist who
helps health.
Movement and rehab professionalsintegrate whole body healing by
blending the nervous system intotraditional biomechanics to
maximize patient outcomes.
(02:56):
I use a non-traditional approachthat has helped thousands of
people address the deeper rootsof health that often get
overlooked in conventionalwestern training.
And now we are gonna be startingour next episode.
welcome Autumn to the show.
I'm excited that you're here.
So excited to be here.
Thank you.
Yes.
So we're gonna be talking aboutcalling out some of the BS in
(03:16):
the fitness and wellnessindustry, and then also some
unconventional ways that youpractice and, and work with your
clients as well.
I think it's important for us tobe having these conversations
that think outside of the box toprogress us further in our
industries.
So, well, I am so excited.
It's something I.
Love to talk about.
(03:36):
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we were chatting about a
little bit before is how muchare these like common patterns
that you see in clients?
Because I know that in thephysical therapy realm, we look
at things just so, just linear,like, oh, I'm gonna look just at
(03:57):
the shoulder, I'm gonna lookjust at the hip.
What are some common patternsthat you see with, with.
Clients and how is thatdifferent than what you were
trained to do?
Well, here's the thing is thatyou're not really, when you're
trained, it depends on what yourcertification is.
And typically in the fitnessindustry, you're gonna get an
overlying like largecertification.
(04:19):
So whether that's your NASM,your ace, your CSCS, it's
something and it's supertextbook.
So you read a lot of books andthen you take a test.
But there's a lot of, like, nowyou're certified, you know, kind
of now what?
It doesn't really tell you howto work with somebody.
It's more so here's a bunch ofcalculations you will never need
(04:39):
to work with a client.
Um, and here's a bunch ofinformation that the textbooks
are almost behind the times alittle bit.
So what I would say is reallyhard is that they may show you a
squat and they might tell youlike very basic principles of a
squat.
And they're gonna show you oneperson doing a squat that one
person looks nothing like thepeople you're gonna train.
(05:02):
And so the patterns that I seeis that a lot of times people,
when they're training someoneare trying to make their client
look like that textbook example.
And instead of looking at thebody in front of them and being
like, none of us are gonna bethat textbook example, and most
textbook examples are one typeof person.
(05:24):
Yeah, the, you were saying likethe skinny white people.
Skinny white people.
Yeah.
There aren't curves and.
You know what?
So then we kind of get to thisthought process of, okay,
everyone's, you know, and thesepeople, this doesn't exist
either, but like everyone'sspines should look a certain way
and like it's very flat, buttheir spine isn't flat.
(05:45):
In fact, it does have curves.
They just maybe don't have thatflesh to accentuate what those
curves are.
So then you go to train somebodywho.
Say maybe has a little bit moregluteal mass, if you will, has
you can say Big butt.
Big butt.
Okay, there you go.
And a smaller waist.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden you're like,wow, that person's arching their
back and I need to make surethat they don't arch their back
(06:07):
in their squats.
And you're like, so then they,you almost are distorting their
backs to look like thattextbook.
Instead of saying like, okay,well where are their bony
landmarks?
Where.
Are they actually in this?
And so oftentimes I thinktrainers, Pilates instructors,
whoever you wanna call it, arethen bringing on pain.
Oh yeah.
(06:27):
Well then it's, then it'sreinforcing, especially if
you're, you're working withwomen or people that have been
susceptible to the culture ofthe body image, the body
dysmorphia.
Right?
So then we're almost reinforcingthat shame of, oh, your body
can't do this.
Right?
Yeah.
And so then they start nottrusting their bodies more.
(06:48):
And so in that we're kind ofreinforcing some trauma onto
the, the client as well.
Thousand, thousand percent.
I had a client who kept tellingme she wanted to lose weight.
It was somebody I knew for awhile.
So before I took her on asclient, I knew her pretty well
as just as a friend.
And then when we started workingtogether, she said she really
(07:09):
wanted to lose weight and shereally wanted to make sure that
she was like.
Toning up, whatever that is.
You know the midsection.
I said, okay.
She said, I need to do Pilates.
Well, here's the thing, just toyour point is that this woman
had more on her midsection andhad a larger chest.
Pilates is done on your back, soas soon as you put her on her
(07:32):
back.
You almost feel it's very hardto move if you can picture
larger chest midsection on yourback and they're asking somebody
to curl head, neck, andshoulders up.
To where their, their heads kindof almost into their body and
she just kept feeling like shewas a failure because she
couldn't go into a Pilates classand do it.
(07:53):
And I'm like, of course youcan't.
It's just, it doesn't work foryour body frame right now.
Doesn't mean we can't getamazing core workout and
exercises in, that's just likeputting you in probably what?
It's the most uncomfortable foryou.
So again, it is, it'sreinforcing, okay, well then I
can't do this unless I look acertain way.
Uh, because that walking toclass, well, how come every
(08:14):
other woman in there feels okaydoing it?
Well, honestly, I feel like alot of times in these fitness
classes, most people don't feelokay and they're, they're
literally trying to fit in andwatching everybody else.
And like, I mean, so many timesI see people in workout classes
doing like the straight legflutter kicks.
Oh my gosh.
That way the amount of peoplethat actually do those right is
(08:34):
like maybe 1%.
And maybe people they're,they're like, why can't I do it?
And so, so many times before Iunderstood this, before I
actually knew like.
How much this affected mynervous system.
Mm-hmm.
And even seeing it in in clientsor patients.
Right.
(08:54):
And you're just like, wow, did Ireinforce some of these patterns
because I subconsciously,mm-hmm.
Started comparing everything tothe textbook and then also.
We're doing what we've learnedto do from the people before us.
Like how long, how many timesdid I tell people earlier in my
career not to squat knees overtoes?
Oh my gosh.
I just can't, I am soembarrassed of my younger self
(09:17):
because it's not like I wasdoing that shit when I was like,
when I am am in squatting to getsomething up.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's so true.
But I think that, like I heardsome quote one time talking
about how.
You should, you should beembarrassed.
We, every almost year, we shouldbe embarrassed of what we did
the year before.
'cause that means that we'regrowing, we're growing.
And I'm like, okay, that makesme feel a little better.
(09:38):
Because same how many times youbring up the flutter kick and
it's probably one of my leastfavorite exercises.
I it, I hate it.
And how many times I do you tellpeople, okay, put your hands
underneath your butt now keepyour feet a couple inches from
the ground.
Yeah.
Realizing that.
How many people were we puttinginto back spasms?
Like how many people wereactually working their core?
And it's really funny now to gointo classes.
(10:01):
'cause I'll take classes andthey'll have flutter kicks and
I'll bring my legs down to aheight where I can maintain, you
know, stability into my lowerback.
And I maintain my low backcurves and the instructor comes
over and pushes my legs down.
Yeah.
I hate, I hate that.
And I'm like, and I just keepthinking they're well intended
instructors who unfortunatelywere taught percent incorrectly.
(10:22):
Well, I, I don't blame theinstructors.
So when you're listening tothis, it's more of getting us to
challenge the status quo and,and really helping people from a
nervous system perspective.
So I don't think it'sintentional, right?
Like, you know, we're over heresaying that we've done it.
I mean, I've told people foryears.
Not to go knees over toes,because that's what we were
(10:43):
taught.
And the thing that really helpedme is I saw an Instagram post
where a guy was making fun ofthis and he was like, if we only
hinge at our hips and we only dothese things, this is what it
would look like.
And I remember getting mad withabout it, and this is what,
before I did like inner work toknow what my ego was saying.
And um, I sat with it and I waslike, he's not wrong.
(11:04):
I mean, he's actually reallyright.
And there's this big disconnectfrom the PT side and the fitness
world.
I almost feel like in myexperience, PTs can help with
like acute injuries.
Mm-hmm.
But.
Like the really, really goodPTs, they know how to help
people move.
Mm-hmm.
I would agree.
Yeah.
And, and, and fitness know canteach people how to move, but,
(11:27):
but they can't do injuries.
So like, we need to be havingconversations.
I mean, like, yeah.
What are, have you seen?
What have I seen?
And when I was in corporate, Ialmost felt like there was this,
oh my God, it's us versus thepersonal trainers.
It's us versus the Pilates.
It's us versus this.
And I'm like, ew, just stop.
Like.
Th we want people to heal.
(11:47):
Okay.
And, and we heal in community.
Yep.
And in that.
The biggest thing is importantif we're all cohesively teaching
the same stuff.
Where it gets hard is where if Ishare a client with maybe a
chiropractor that tells peoplenot to do certain things, like
never to deadlift ever again, ornever to squat knees over toes
or scaring them into needingadjustments, constantly let
(12:09):
people want to come in foradjustments, let people want to
come in, show them the value,let's not scare them.
So there's a lot of that.
As well, like fear in it.
But I did wanna go back to theinstructor kind of, um,
adjusting the movement is, yeah.
I don't think they mean to dothat, but for many years I had,
(12:29):
um, exercise intolerance, so Ilook strong.
Mm-hmm.
But they'd be like, liftheavier, lift heavier.
And so I do it.
'cause I was embarrassed.
I was like, I'm a physicaltherapist, I can do this.
And then I'd flare up and thenjust never come back.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think that happens a lot moreto women than you.
Think I find that if a woman hasgood mobility or say is maybe
(12:51):
slightly on the, like hypermobility's like end, they're
gonna look really good moving.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of times they're hangingout in their joints.
A lot of times they don't feelanything that they're doing.
And the, I think as instructors,again, we're taught to look at a
certain thing and then that'swhat it should look like.
And there aren't check-ins.
(13:11):
Yeah.
Just like in your case of, okay,well where are you feeling?
Does this feel good?
Do you feel supported?
Like anything like that, asking,how did you feel last class?
Did it feel good?
Mm-hmm.
Like, there's none of that.
And really putting like theownership with every one of my
clients, I'm like, I actuallynever want you to come back.
I want you to get to the pointwhere you can do it all on your
(13:32):
own.
I've given you the knowledgeI've.
Given you the why's.
I've given you so much.
You've only come for it.
'cause it's fun.
Like we have fun together andaccountability.
And so many of my clients thatI've taught, maybe 15 years or
so, they'll be like, okay, don'tsay anything this session.
And they can say almosteverything that I was gonna say
and they have, because I'm likeputting knowledge back into
people to feel their body.
(13:54):
Is huge.
This, this, this is it.
Mm-hmm.
What you've essentially said isgetting them into their body,
starting to trust theirintuitive movement.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and we call this like,interception is just like, your
body is like awareness in your,of your body, like internally
and their internal cues.
And I find so many times whenpeople are disconnected from
(14:15):
their body, it can mean avariety of different ways.
It can mean.
Potentially that maybe thatperson is neurodivergent.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they have hypermobility orthe other thing that I'll see,
maybe they don't have those.
Um, and then the other thingthat I'll see is they're just in
chronic fight or flight.
And so with that, they'redissociated from their body
because the body hasn't beentold it's safe.
(14:37):
Thousand percent do you find asyou're saying this, because it's
almost like I find with myclients, I tell'em, I'm like,
okay, we're gonna first pullback your range of motion.
Yeah.
And then we're gonna get reallygood in that spot and then we're
gonna challenge it.
Yeah.
Um, and, and.
I know with you the breath ishuge as the breath should be
(14:59):
huge for everyone.
Do you find sometimes peoplehave a hard time slowing down to
really work on that, likebaseline kind of, um, the
principles where we all athousand percent.
But to me, the key with that is,so when I teach transverse
abdominis mm-hmm.
I've seen this a lot wherepeople are like, turn on your TA
by tilting back.
(15:20):
And I'm like, well, if we lookat the insertion of the ta
right?
It wraps, it's, it literally thehorizontal fibers that wrap
around.
So technically there's not.
A tilt.
Yes.
With that, when you tilt,you're, you're activating the
rectus abdominis, so you'regetting those, those, those
muscles to tilt back.
Yep.
So you're kicking in your rectusand your ta.
(15:42):
So there's also that too, wherethey're like, well, I was told
to tilt when I do this.
And I'm like, yes.
But when we're doing ta you'regonna kick on.
You can't isolate muscles.
Mm-hmm.
You can do the best that youcan.
But, um, with, with that, thebiggest thing to me is teaching
people, Hey.
This is gonna feel like you'redoing nothing.
Mm-hmm.
(16:02):
Mm-hmm.
But just trust me, this is thefoundation.
So the more we can kick on thestabilizers here, so you're
transverse and I show them on ananatomy app so they can see it
and they go.
When they do ta, they onlyalmost feel like they over
contract.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they're like reallypulling in and arching their
backs and really, really trying.
And so I'm like, do 10% of that.
(16:23):
And they're like, whoa, what?
And I just gentle, gentlemovement.
Sometimes I'll cue people tokind of, people do, I'd love to
hear your cues on TA to kind ofsee what you do, but I, I'll say
like the hip bones.
Drawing those hip bones heretogether, kind of zipping up
some Te Snugger.
Snugger snug jeans.
(16:44):
Yep.
Yep.
At the end of an exhale.
Yep.
I use both of those.
I'll often say, I want you tocough or laugh.
Perfect.
Just because a lot of timespeople have no clue where those
muscles are, and I usually usethem as lower abdominals because
in, in, it's interesting, in thePT world, maybe this is, is like
you can use jargon in a way thisdifferent than I think in
(17:06):
fitness sometimes I found.
I have to be really like pelvis.
A lot of people don't know wheretheir pelvis is, uhhuh, so it's
really specific, like lowerabdominals and then I point'em
out, this is where your lowerabdominals are, and then let's
cough or laugh.
Mm-hmm.
Do you feel those muscles, thosemuscles are your lower
abdominals and then we work onhow do you now engage them now
(17:26):
that you know where they are andwhat they are?
I actually don't think it'sdifferent for PTA.
Okay.
I actually think from a PT side,we as a general profession,
it's, we need to break it downmore.
Mm.
Okay.
To help resonate with theclient.
So I think that that's spot onbecause pelvis people are like,
pelvic, what?
Pelvis?
What's that?
(17:47):
Right?
And so, yeah, there you'vegotta, we've gotta be careful,
like I said, thoracic spine theother day with a patient, he's
like, what's that?
I was like, oh shit.
Sorry.
I mean, midback, midback,midback, right?
And so there's this piece that'shard from a, a PT perspective of
that shifting.
So you almost gotta play true.
A little bit of mentalgymnastics.
Yeah.
Because.
We wanna break it down.
(18:08):
So it's, I was with my collegegirlfriends a few months ago and
I was saying something and theywere like, wait, say that again.
I go, oh, I need to say it inlayman's terms.
And one of'em goes, don't callme a layman.
It's So, my mentor said, you satin a room for a long time
learning all this, and no onecares that you sat here and
learned it.
They just, it's not about yourego.
(18:29):
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, because it's also aboutyour ego, right?
Yeah.
So there's like ego and like.
Help, like we, I call it higherself or like your best self,
whatever you wanna call it,right?
And so your ego is gonna belike, oh, if I use big words.
I'm a big time person.
Yes, that's so true.
I think.
(18:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Especially in the first fewyears maybe of your career.
Oh God, yeah.
The amount I, I probablyovercompensated if you're a new
grad.
Hey, just trust that, you know,just, it's not about your ego,
it's not as much about us as weactually think it is.
Yeah.
No, and you know what's sointeresting is though like.
(19:10):
Covering to the ego and what yousaid before is that I find from
my clients, a lot of it isletting go of the ego.
Yes, it is.
Like I had a friend who used toalways say with an exercise,
take the pretty out of it.
And it was such a really bigthing about it.
Like, so when they come intoclasses I'm like, okay, can you
feel, you know, maybe you'vebeen working on a deadlift or
(19:30):
something.
I'm like, can you feel, youknow, glutes engaged, can you
feel this, this, this?
Yep.
And they're like, but you know,my range isn't very big.
I don't care.
Now, can you go into a classwith a bunch of other people who
may be doing a really largerange of motion and also not
care because that's really hard.
'cause here's the thing is youmay not look like what they're
doing, but you know you're doingit right and you're feeling good
(19:53):
and you're not gonna get injuredand you're feeling safe and
protected, whereas you don't,you don't know what's going on
there.
But it takes a while, I think,as.
As you know, for my clients tobe okay going into a group space
and really dropping that ego anddoing what's best for their
body.
Oh, that resonates so much fromlike me taking classes too.
(20:17):
And, and, and I've seen it withclients as well, just that it's
hard to take those classes'causeyou wanna keep up with everybody
else.
The amount of times I've injuredmyself.
Just trying to keep up with, Iremember I entered my hip really
bad when I was like 26 doinglike box jumps.
'cause I was trying to competewith like an 18-year-old next to
me.
I was like, oh, I got this.
And I was like, this is so dumb.
(20:38):
Why did I like, who did I provethat to?
That that 18-year-old never sawme again?
Nobody in that class, that gymdoesn't exist.
Yeah.
You know, but my hip hurts.
You know, my hip's fine now.
But it was just funny'cause thatwas my first experience with the
ego in a workout class where Igot injured and I just thought.
Oh, okay.
This is, this is interesting.
But you see it too.
(20:58):
Yeah.
How to get your clients to, totrust that, hey, this might be
too much.
And hey, it doesn't, doesn'tmean you're weak.
It actually means you're strong.
It actually means you havecourage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can't have couragewithout being vulnerable about
it.
Thousand percent.
You've gotta put those blinderson.
And you also don't know how manyof those people in the room
(21:19):
have.
Either Ben, pt because theydidn't listen, have, uh, you
know, seen somebody else.
Like, I, I will often say,'causeI see, you know, people from
different gyms, um, often if Ilike, know the community type of
thing, and I'm like, you don'tknow that I've seen so many
people in the, in your class forcertain things.
And then I try to teach them,okay.
(21:42):
So we know, say maybe it'ssomebody who has a harder time
firing up their, um, transverseabdo, okay.
And then we really learn how tofire it up.
We understand position into adeadlift.
We'll then talking them through,okay, you get this?
However, now if we add speed,power choreography, gosh, a
(22:02):
bigger range of motion.
You're gonna have to bring thatfocus right back to it, because
all of those are gonna challengeit even more so, which means,
then it goes into the how do youfeel today?
Did you sleep last night?
Where's your stress level at?
Where's your emotional stresslevel at?
Because if you're superstressed, that deadlift, that
could turn into a super heavykettlebell swing.
(22:24):
Yeah, you're not doing it today.
Yeah, you're at a higher risk ofbeing injured because you, you
just nailed your hip hinge, butnow you're gonna throw in heavy
weight and power and speed.
And you're exhausted and you'regonna think that you're gonna be
able to control that movement inthe same way.
It's just, it's not gonnahappen.
Well, that's why the HRV is soimportant.
I mean, but here's the thing issometimes those aren't even
(22:46):
accurate either.
Yeah.
But, um, and just looking atgetting the patient or the
client to understand too, whentheir body's kind of tapped out,
we were like taught, oh, okay,well we're gonna do now, we're
gonna progress these six weeksand then day, the six week we're
gonna go up to this way.
Well, what if that person.
(23:08):
Is, is experiencing like a lotof stress that night.
Mm-hmm.
Or the day before or that weekbefore.
There's not this, I was thinkingabout this the other day when I
went to the gym'cause I waslike, I can lift heavy when I
wanna lift heavy.
Mm-hmm.
But sometimes when I'm underlike change in my life or things
like that, there's so much ofthat where you're just, you have
to listen to the body.
(23:29):
'cause I know that.
On the days that I feel strong,I feel strong.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm goingheavier.
But there are days where it'slike I'm just moving.
Mm-hmm.
Because so much of the fitnessindustry before is just like,
let's look good.
Mm-hmm.
And that hate made me hateexercise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so, and, and I've seen thatwith clients too, where they
hate exercise.
They're like, I don't wannaexercise.
'cause it reminds them of thisbody dysmorphia of all the
(23:52):
bullshit that we heard in thenineties with mm-hmm.
All the, the movements ofgetting us skinny and all this
stuff.
Right.
Whatever.
And in that we developed an in,I, I still think we're breaking
away from it.
I don't think we're there yet.
Mm-hmm.
But there's this still thisthing of, well, I work out to
burn off what I ate last night.
Mm-hmm.
(24:13):
Yeah.
And that if, if we're stillsaying that, and we're still
hearing clients say that, ifwe're still saying that that's
an unhealthy relationship withexercise, that we need to heal.
Yes.
And so much of the body is likemoving.
So we know the lymphatic system.
The lymphatic system, so ourlymph does not flow without
muscle contraction.
(24:34):
So if you're thinking of it froma perspective of looking good,
but not looking at it as, Hey,I'm getting blood flow to my
muscles.
Yeah, I'm getting the lymphaticdrain, the lymph system moving.
I'm telling my body I'm safe.
Mm-hmm.
My heart rate's getting up, I'mreleasing energy or built up
tension, maybe.
Um, I'm getting my oxygen up, soI'm, I'm working my lungs more.
(24:57):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yep.
That's a different, that's adifferent energy to go.
Totally different into aworkout, then I wanna be skinny.
And the funny thing about thatthough is that working out that
way.
Is actually how people loseweight.
Thousand percent.
I find people actually loseweight, um, when they start
loving themselves of a thousandpercent.
And what I would say is I'm abig fan of staying in my, you
(25:22):
know, my lane when it comes tofitness.
So if I do notice somebody whohas a distorted, you know.
Version of working out oreating.
And I'm not really gonnanecessarily like food for sure.
I'm not tapping into, I'm gonnarefer them out.
But what I will do a lot is askthe whys and keep bringing the
whys back because Are youworking out?
(25:44):
Because some kind I have,they're working out because they
need to get out of the brain.
Okay, well, why?
Like, and we get kind of down toit.
Some of them, well, I'm doingthis because from a young child,
my mother talked about herweight.
You really get to understandsomebody.
And to me then you get tounderstand how their workouts
are shaped.
Because if you can get somebodyto realize, and again, this is
(26:07):
not my job, to then go, okay,let's work on healing that inner
child.
Let me refer you to someone, butI can understand this is coming
from childhood.
So how can I shape workouts thatare gonna feel a little bit more
comfortable for that person?
Because what we, we do realize,at least for me, is when I look
at clients that have a toughrelationship with movement or
food, um, not food so much'causeI just, I don't work with that
(26:30):
at all.
But movement in particular.
Is that I don't wanna just pullthe rug out from underneath
them.
Mm-hmm.
Like if they're used to workingout three hours a day, I'm not
gonna say you need to stopbecause that three hours a day
is probably holding themtogether in some way.
But when we can figure out,okay, well the why is because
you gotta get outta your head.
(26:50):
Okay.
I'm all for you getting outtayour head in a movement shaped
version.
But instead of beating ourselvesup, can we go on a walk?
Can we listen to a podcast?
Can we, you know, like, yeah,you can still move.
You know, I, my husband's one ofthose.
He's like, I gotta move sevendays a week.
Awesome.
Okay.
When I met him, those seven daysa week we're really hard.
Seven days a week.
He now.
(27:11):
Nope.
He recognizes he needs sleepmore.
There's some days he just goeson a walk, uh, because I get, we
wanna clear our head and thatconstant, I need to pound myself
into the ground.
That's a really hard one That'snot gonna end well from.
Gosh, as you know, from thejoint perspective to the hormone
perspective, to the so manydifferent ways.
(27:33):
Well, because we're, we'reseeing this, I work with a lot
of women or people inperimenopause or menopause, and
in that.
We're having to untrain some ofthese patterns, right?
So that's, that age group is, ismore like millennials or like
Gen X.
Mm-hmm.
And so we've been susceptible tothe nineties of all of, Hey, low
(27:55):
fat cardio is how you loseweight.
Mm-hmm.
We actually know now it's theopposite.
Right?
Yep.
So I had, I did a podcast onestrogen dominance and one of
the things that she was talkingabout is how much, uh,
progesterone is made.
It's a interesting, it startsfrom cholesterol.
So if we're not eating fat, it,it's this breakdown.
(28:16):
Interesting.
And, and how much of the peoplein the nineties that were going
through perimenopause not eatingfat, do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
They were probably so rage thatthey had that cardio.
Yes.
So then yeah, they're doingcardio.
Oh, that's making it worse.
Without strength training.
Yeah.
And and there's so much rightnow and everybody needs to
strength every protein, protein,protein.
I'm like just, oh my gosh.
(28:37):
Can we chill out for fiveseconds?
I get it.
Yeah, it's great.
We're on this pendulum to theopposite side now and I'm like,
let's, let's even this out.
But in that, when you're doingso much cardio, you're pushing
your body, your body startsthinking you're under fight or
flight again, which then whenyou are under fight or flight,
your body produces cortisol inlieu or more cortisol over
(28:59):
progesterone.
Oh my God.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
It's just we're getting hitdouble whammy.
Wow.
Yeah, so, so there's this,there's this balance.
But here's also too, here's thething, there's a lot of people
that don't wanna do strengthtraining.
It's a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And so we have to meet peoplewhere they're at.
Well, you could still like doingstuff around the house, squats
(29:21):
and movement like that.
How do you get somebody whomaybe doesn't wanna strength
train?
To, to do it because yes, weknow, we know logically muscle
mass helps longevity.
Mm-hmm.
We know it helps with bloodsugar regulation.
We know that, um, that it helpswith bone density.
Right?
Yeah.
And so it also helps withmetabolism.
(29:44):
And so, but.
If somebody doesn't wanna do it,they're not gonna do it.
I laughed when you said thatbecause I've just changed my
approach to something I never,ever, ever thought that I would
do.
I've always said to people, thisneeds to be fun and it needs to
work on your schedule and itneeds to be sustainable.
And I still believe a lot ofthose, and just recently, one of
(30:05):
my best friends, I said to her,I don't care that you don't like
strength training.
I don't care.
Do you wanna play with yourgrandkids?
'cause she has 20-year-old, 20mid twenties kids.
She said yes, and I said, weneed to get you strong.
What I can tell you is you don'tneed to be in the gym four or
five days a week, two days, 30minutes.
(30:27):
Can you give me that to giveyourself strength and that life
you want?
She's a thousand percent.
I don't care if I don't like it.
So I think sometimes I will meetsomeone always where they're at.
And I'll always say to people,as adults, we have to do things
we don't wanna do all day long.
Yeah.
So to me, if someone says theydon't like an exercise, I'm
like, great.
Done.
We can take it out.
(30:47):
Like there's so many exercises,I can get whatever done through,
you know, like whatever I needto get done for them to get
stronger, we can do it with suchdifferent way.
And I think sometimes askingpeople, this is something my
therapist actually said to me.
He was like, well, what do youwant?
And when I said, you know,whatever it is, because a lot of
(31:08):
people will say,'cause I wannafeel stronger.
I wanna be stronger when I getolder.
I.
Okay.
Then you do want to strengthtrain.
It doesn't have to be heavy,heavy lifting.
It doesn't have to look like thepicture in your head.
It doesn't have to be CrossFit.
I think they think of CrossFit.
It doesn't have to be CrossFit.
Yeah.
But we can get you stronger in away that I'm not telling you
you're gonna enjoy it, like youlike to go out with your
(31:29):
girlfriends, but you won't fearit and you won't hate it.
That is what I can give you.
Yeah.
And so that involves a lot oftalking to find out too.
Like, well, what is it that youdon't like?
Is it because you did take aclass that was CrossFit or an
instructor made you do anexercise to look a certain way
and it felt really bad in yourbody?
(31:50):
I can make sure those thingsdon't happen.
And if you want to be stronger,we do need to get you stronger.
Like I love that because I thinkit's, it's the why behind it,
right?
Yeah.
So maybe they're not motivated'cause they don't love it.
I know, I feel like I've almostgone.
In the past or even just evenjust like a year ago even to
(32:11):
like, let's just do what yourbody wants to do.
And it's like, well, there'ssome stuff we got.
So the pendulum right?
There's some stuff that we knowcan be helpful and we know can
really help people, right?
Like if somebody doesn't wannadrink water, I'm sorry, we have
to still drink water.
So what can we do to help youdrink water?
Right, exactly.
So there's some foundationalthings and maybe if somebody's
not wanting to do something,like you said, let's shift it.
(32:32):
Well, what is your goal?
Do you wanna be able to get upand off?
Up and down off the ground withyour kids.
Do you want to go strong intomenopause?
Do you want to do these things?
Right?
And so like for me, sometimes Idon't like strength training,
but I'm like, I am going intoperimenopause strong.
I'm going into with muscle massbecause I know that's gonna help
regulate my blood sugar andthat's gonna help my hormones
(32:54):
percent.
And so, and then we can kind oftranslate that too into, into
our clients or patients.
And I think that.
I love that approach becausehere's the thing, there's also
like this whole movement ofself-love and I'm all about it.
Mm-hmm.
But.
You can also go way too far.
Everything's a pendulum.
So if you just never do anythingthat you don't wanna do, first
(33:14):
of all, that's a privilege.
Um, second of all, we have to dothings that we don't wanna do
sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And so how can we reframe it?
Yeah.
Into a way that is motivatingfor somebody, right?
Like, I don't necessarily loverunning, but I know how much it
helps my cardio and I, how muchit helps my lungs.
And so I don't do a ton of it,but I still.
(33:37):
I'm doing it'cause I can picturemy lungs expanding and
contracting and like helping,helping with that and making
sure, so when I do wanna docertain activities, like maybe
next time I travel I can hikewithout worrying about the
cardio aspect.
And then, um.
It's just, yeah, it's justimportant to look at all these
things, but I really like thatperspective, and I think it's
(33:59):
all a pendulum.
It's all a pendulum.
It's all kind of sometimes areframe.
And look, I think as a fitnesswellness industry, we did a
really poor job for a long time.
If you think about it, it was, Iremember I would always travel
and take the hardest class inwhatever city because I always.
Thought, oh, I wanna see this,that, that makes you so much
stronger.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(34:19):
And um, the funniest one I evertook was in London.
It was deemed the hardest classin London.
And what marketing is that?
Right?
It's like, well, one, you'relike, usually you have a PR firm
that whatever, that you'regetting that the award.
But also I went into the classand they were like, okay, for
seven minutes we're gonna doburpees.
Now we're gonna do this.
(34:40):
And.
I tell my clients, I'm like,it's really easy to destroy you.
It's really easy to make itreally hard.
It's really hard, or it justtakes thought for a trainer to
program workouts that continueto help you feel better and
better.
And I mean, we did an awful job.
We wanted.
Uh, the PR of fitness was like,how hard can it be?
(35:03):
How much can you burn?
How sore can you be?
Like those were were can youdestroy yourself?
Yes.
Basically.
So that's why winning the award.
But I think that's why like I'dsay people around like 40 and up
right now, especially women orpeople going into perimenopause,
they have this resistance tostrength training.
'cause the whole thing was like,I don't wanna get.
(35:24):
I don't wanna get bulky.
Mm-hmm.
I don't.
Um, and then I also, it looksscary.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and what we've seen onthe media are just like these
intense, crazy workouts.
And I'm like, what are youtraining for?
Where are you going?
Are you in the military?
Yes.
If you're not in the military,what are you doing?
Well then there's also, there'salso this piece too, of over
(35:46):
exercising as a trauma response.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, interesting.
Not knowing how to regulate andunderstand what's coming up.
So it's, it can be becomeaddiction.
Yeah.
No, just like anything else, athousand percent can become an
addiction.
Mm-hmm.
And so if you see somebodyobsessively doing it, that's
probably a sign.
And if we're doing it ourselves,it's probably a sign.
(36:07):
What, what's causing us toobsess about this?
Because movement can be reallygreat, but then again, a
pendulum, right?
It can go to the other sidewhere it can be borderline
unhealthy, just like anything.
Yep.
Yep.
And so when, when we feel kindof this trigger or this
response, um, you can talk aboutit with a therapist, you're just
sitting, sitting down andunderstanding where is this
(36:28):
coming from?
Why do I feel this urge to dothis?
Like how am I training forsomething?
If not, yeah, why thisimpulsiveness?
So any of these like big, bigextreme things of anything,
right?
It's like binge eating and thennot eating at all.
So like what's the in between?
I think so too.
And it's the attachment to it.
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you let it go?
(36:49):
Mm-hmm.
For a few days?
And will you be okay?
Well, I also think that there'sthis theory too, that if you
look fit, you're healthy.
But yeah, if you're screamingand you have road rage all the
time, or you're constantly in arush and just frazzled, is that
health too?
No.
And also.
If we can stop on that.
(37:09):
The, uh, the amount of times I,I don't know if you get this,
that I have women talking aboutabdominals and how they really
want to train their apps, theywanna get strong apps and how
they're not strong.
And there's so many women that Isay there's a lot.
I'd say the abdominals aredefinitely underworked thousand
percent.
(37:30):
I have a lot of clients and I'mlike, you are really strong.
They're like, I don't have abs.
I'm like describing, especiallyto women how having abs.
Does not equate to being strong.
Yeah.
And then what goes into play?
Like what I wish if, you know,we spoke about the influencer
world, I wish so many people onthere that looked really fit.
(37:51):
Could also credit genetics like.
The amount of women to showtheir abdominals where their
hormones would sit.
Just to, I, I say that toclients all the time.
I'm like, here's the thing iswe'd probably take a lot of
pleasure outta your life too.
And then two, your hormones mayget destroyed in order for you
(38:12):
to have this look of what yousee as being healthy.
Oh, yeah.
I've, I've had a friend, um,I've had many friends where
they're just look jacked all thetime.
Yeah.
And they don't work out thatmuch.
And that's genetics.
And it's really hard for womento get six packs.
I mean, because so hard.
We carry more visceral fat ingeneral.
(38:32):
Also, we have hormonefluctuations as well.
And in order to get that, ifyou're not genetically inclined
to it, you have to really cutout a lot outta your diet.
And that can almost feed more ofan eating disorder as well.
So we have to look at it fromthis perspective of like, Hey.
Is this, is this health?
Does this feel good?
Because I know I can get a, likeI have good, I have decent
(38:55):
genetics.
Yeah.
Like I can maintain muscle mass.
Mm-hmm.
I've been weightlifting on andoff since like high school.
Mm-hmm.
But I still have like goodgenetics.
Like I'll fully admit likethat's, that's part of it.
But I'm also not like superjacked and ripped because I
also.
I know what that takes to get tothat point, and it will cause me
(39:16):
to flare up in a body, dis sometype of eating issue, some type
of eating, and I don't wanna, Idon't wanna fuck with that.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, but it, that's also inconsider too, when you see
people in there, how much arethey restricting?
How much of that is an eatingdisorder?
Mm-hmm.
How much of that is, is, isgenetics?
Mm-hmm.
And how much of it is.
(39:36):
What they're doing.
I mean, it's, it's hard to know,but I I love that you called
that out though.
'cause the influencer world,it's just, it's getting hard
sometimes to go to the gymbecause everything is just all
about videos and these outfitsand like, you know, showing off
our bodies and all these thingsand hey, I am all about people
(39:58):
being proud, but there's alsothis point where it can, it can
affect other people around thatmaybe are struggling with their
body image.
It.
And when that's your only job,it's Okay, well, what all goes
into play?
Do you have someone cooking foryou?
A lot of times, shockingly, thepeople who are showing you
(40:18):
workouts actually aren't doingthose.
They're not doing the workoutsthey're showing you.
And if they are, how many hourson top of that are they working
out, which.
For, I'm not saying everyone,but for a lot of people it's a
lot of working out.
Um, and then I look at it and Isay, okay, you can have three
things in life.
(40:38):
You can have your hormones, youcan have performance, you can
have aesthetics.
I wasn't the one that createdthis.
I had somebody a long while tellme that.
And they said, you can't haveall three optimally at once.
And it was very true.
So if you're seeing somebodywhose aesthetics, you're like,
wow, okay.
Are the other two optimized you?
Yeah.
You don't know by somebody's,looks like you really do not
(41:01):
know.
Do not know.
And um, well, it goes, it goesback to, you know, some of the
BS like in the wellnessindustry.
And like you've said, likethey're probably not doing some
of those exercises.
And I've seen this in healthcaretoo, where they'll tell people,
even in functional medicine andphysical therapy, they'll tell
people, do your breath work, dothese things, but they're not
doing them themselves.
Yeah.
And that provides a differentenergy when you come in with
(41:23):
that energy because if you'renot grounded in your space, if
you are not centered and youdon't know, you don't practice
breath work and you don'tpractice mindfulness to tell
somebody else that is hypocrisyto, I completely agree.
Yep.
Yeah, and a lot of the people inthe, I think in the social media
(41:44):
space, they're not working withpeople.
Like so they're telling you it,but you're right.
Like if you came into a spacewith somebody, like if I came
and walked in with you, I know Ican feel your authenticity.
I can feel, you know everythingthat you're saying.
Okay.
It's something that youpractice.
Try to practice yourself.
I.
If you just post a video, youdon't really, you don't know.
(42:06):
And so then we do, we insteadjust go into the spiral of what
somebody looks like or whatthey're showing for that, what,
30 seconds?
Millisecond.
Millisecond.
It's so, and you've seen, andI'm sure you've seen it, where
people are so different oncamera than off.
And so there's, there's thatthing and that, well, that, and
that goes to one of the biggestthings that we were also talking
about too, is when you takethese.
(42:28):
Continuing education, or youtake these courses or you learn
these programs, let's stoptaking them blindly at face
value because there's alwaysgonna be a newer trend.
There's gonna be a newerapproach.
You are so unique in yourselfthat it's so important that you,
you filter it through your lens.
(42:51):
That person that came up withthat protocol, they did it based
on their lens from somebodyelse.
Yeah.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and I, I feel like that, Idon't know if it's like that in
your world, but in the physicaltherapy world, I'll see new
grads just be like, oh, I didn'tlearn that or this.
I'm like, well, what intuitivelydo you feel feels right for this
person?
Because it's gonna adjust basedon each individual person.
(43:13):
So giving yourself thatpermission to adjust things
based on what you feel fit.
And maybe you, maybe you alignwith what one of the, the people
leading the certificationprogram say, maybe you leave
another piece out.
So do you see that?
I see it a ton.
And here's the thing is likeevery state is different.
So whether or not you need inyour state a certification, some
(43:36):
states you don't even need acertification, which is kind of
frightening rhythms.
Yeah.
It is these big certs and therereally isn't a whole lot of
good, like they do.
They show you, here's a squat,here's a deadlift.
But there isn't a lot of depthto them.
But what I would encouragepeople to do is like, you get
your, your main cert, okay?
That's gonna get you in the doorplaces.
(43:58):
But then what speaks to you?
Is it something, is it a breathwork class?
Because you know, that's thefoundation of all movement.
Is it a, you know, some classesI've taken are, you know, like
maybe like a fascia class orsomething else.
Go, then take these classes.
Now here's the problem becauseit is wonderful, you know, it's
(44:18):
a, it's a business.
Is that under each one of thesecertifications, here are their
pre-approved classes that youcan take?
I have yet to, I've.
Very rarely, I'm gonna say Ihaven't, but I'm sure I did in
my past, took one of theirpre-approved classes.
I went in and took what.
I resonated with like, what didI wanna learn more about in my
(44:39):
body?
Because as soon as you feel itand see it in yours, you'll see
it in everyone.
It changes.
This is why it's so importantthat we practice this ourselves
so much.
'cause then you see things thatyou're like, I never saw it.
And then your intuition, whichis really learned experiences,
starts to grow.
And then you petition forcredit.
Because I have, and again, I'mgonna say I've never, maybe it's
(44:59):
happened once.
I really can't remember.
Um.
Had them say no to petitioning,because if they go, it's a
reputable company, you know,it's somebody like that's
teaching a really great shoulderworkshop and you have shoulder
pain.
So you go to it, they're gonnasay yes to it.
You just, it takes you a littlemore work to do and you'll be
(45:19):
such a better instructor, coach,trainer, whatever you wanna call
it in the end.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's not, I mean, thecertification programs can be
wonderful.
Yeah.
I mean, they can be great.
They also.
You know, these are, these arethings that people have made
themselves, so it's not stoppingyou or anybody else from doing
it yourself as well.
Um, I think that I used to justblindly trust everybody and just
(45:43):
say, oh, this is fact.
And then I started realizing,well, um, like when I took my
first dry needling course, theywere like, just keep needling it
until the muscle stopped and.
I did that with people and theywere all flaring up and I was
like, well, I'm not, I'm justgonna go in, let me get a couple
twitches and call it a day.
'cause when I'm needled likethat, I'm like, I'm not going
back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(46:03):
And so what's the maximumbenefit with the least amount of
pain?
Mm-hmm.
And I see this too, with likedeep tissue work where people
are like, I'm gonna beat theshit outta that muscle.
I'm like, this person is alreadytraumatized and we're like
traumatizing them.
So the muscle, the whole body'sgonna tense.
Mm-hmm.
I've never understood thosereally deep, deep, deep tissue
work that doesn't incorporatebreath, that doesn't
(46:24):
incorporate, it's just, just forpain.
I don't get'em either.
I had a really greatpractitioner once say to me, and
I loved this, he said, threeminutes.
You spend three minutes on aspot.
It shouldn't take your breathaway.
If it, it does, it's too deep.
Spend three minutes.
Get off of it because you knowwhat, if you spend longer and
you do get it to release, it mayhave held your whole system up.
(46:47):
And it was so true.
And when I talked to my clients,they're like, I've had a massage
where they spent 20 minutes onsomething and the next day I
couldn't walk.
Yeah.
Because like you said, sometimesthere's like, there's a reason
it's not releasing.
There is a reason.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we don't know.
And if you don't understand thefascial system and how that's
all connected.
It.
It can, yeah, you can kind offree up one spot and then
(47:09):
everything else kind of startsgetting flared up with it.
But I think that, yeah, that'sexactly it.
And more is not better.
And you're seeing this trendback.
Yeah.
Where, and then I almost feellike we're gonna go in this
opposite direction of just liketoo soft.
And I'm like, let's go inbetween.
Right.
You've got the masculine andfit.
We're so far masculine energy infitness.
(47:31):
I'm like, let's bring it.
Centered.
Mm-hmm.
Not all the way over here, justcentered.
Right.
You can still push people, theycan still do hard workouts, but
maybe they don't do them everyday.
Maybe we meet them where they'reat, but.
In summary of what we talkedabout today is yeah.
Meeting, meeting the, the clientwhere they're at, looking at
their body, their tissue.
Mm-hmm.
And their body's gonna responddifferently than somebody else.
(47:53):
And where we learn a lot of thisis literally through textbooks,
which are real thin whitepeople.
Yep.
They all look the same.
I've never actually seentextbook in my 14 years of being
a physical therapist, I've, Ithink I've mainly only had like
one or two textbook cases.
Mm-hmm.
And so, so much of this.
Is what I'm getting at isteaching people how to trust
(48:14):
their intuition as a, as a, as ahealthcare or fitness or, or
movement professional.
Because so much of that is, isimportant.
It really is.
So, and I would say on to add tothat is that.
Uh, don't be scared to refer outand say you don't know.
So for me, if a client, if we'rehitting a brick wall, yeah, I
(48:37):
know.
Okay.
It's something maybe with yournervous system, maybe a somatic
healer will help.
Maybe someone who does.
I refer out all the time becauseto me, I'm like, okay, I, I want
this person just feel theirbest.
The more hands on the, thebetter.
And so I have a, a group ofpeople that I am like, okay, I
(49:02):
think this person would begreat.
I think this person would begreat because this, we've hit a
point where there's somethingelse going on and.
I can sit here and have you doside leg lifts all day long.
We're not getting, we're notgonna get it anywhere.
However, maybe if you saw abreath work coach or a, yeah.
(49:22):
Somebody else, it's gonna helpunlock something and then we're
gonna be able to get a littlebit further.
Yeah, it's, it doesn't meanyou're a bad.
Professional.
It, it means you're, you know,your lane and you're, you're
wondering what's going on.
I will say that a lot of clientsthat come see us, they've
already been to most people inthe western medicine field, so
I'll start getting them to belike, Hey, can you go into
(49:44):
acupuncture?
Are you working with atherapist?
And sometimes people.
They can be resistant to it.
Mm-hmm.
But also getting in anotherperson from maybe a different
perspective than they've had.
You know, I have just havingpeople come in and explaining,
hey, you know, maybe easternmedicine along those lines can
help.
(50:04):
So I think acupuncture's like agood and nice cohesive piece to
add into the physical therapyrealm.
'cause it helps them.
Work with their meridians andhelp with the energy flow so
that way they can feel, feelbetter, but.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you.
I hope, I think a lot of peoplewill benefit from this to know
(50:26):
that we're all doing the bestthat we can.
None of us got instructions onthis Earth.
No.
And the instructions that we gotwere from other people who have
been trying to figure this out.
And then institutionalized likeeducation, you know that we
start there with physicaltherapy, right?
Uh, but then all these otherthings, all the things that I've
(50:47):
learned is just.
Self-learn through experiencingit yourself.
Right?
Go through these movements, gothrough these practices and see
how you feel.
But, and, um, how can they reachyou if, um, they'd like to
contact you?
I am on social media.
I have to think, I'm onInstagram.
I can pull it up.
I can tag it in the bottom ifyou don't know your, and then
(51:09):
have a YouTube channel.
Okay.
My girlfriend and I created aYouTube channel.
It's Feel Your Core.
Okay.
And basically it's all of whatwe talked about is that.
We recognize exactly this needand how the textbook exactly
what we talked about, and weteach how you feel your body and
how to move while feeling yourbody.
And so we have tons of classesand things up on.
(51:29):
I love that on YouTube.
Cool.
I'll tag that too.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for listeningto my podcast.
It would be a huge help if youcould subscribe and rate the
podcast.
It helps us reach more peopleand make a bigger impact.
I would also love it if youcould join my email list, which
is LinkedIn, the caption forpodcast updates, upcoming offers
(51:50):
and events.
You can also find me on TikTok,YouTube and Instagram at Dr.
Mary pt.
Thanks again.
Welcome back to TMI talk with Dr.
Mary.
This conversation today, we'regonna be calling out some of the
outdated fear-based and quitefrankly, unrealistic approaches
that have dominated the fitnessand rehab industry for decades.
We dive into why so manytraditional certifications and
textbooks and fitness modelsdon't actually match the reality
(00:22):
of the bodies that we actuallywork with.
And how this mismatch cansometimes subconsciously and
unknowingly reinforce pain,shame, and even trauma in our
clients.
To discuss this, I brought onAutumn Halazon.
She's a personal trainer, aPilates instructor, and the
owner of Halazon Fitness withover 27 years in the fitness
(00:46):
industry.
She began at age 16 in a fullcontact boxing gym, and later
shifted her focus afterovercoming hormonal challenges
over training and burnout.
Autumn has completed extensivecontinuing education in
mobility, biomechanics, andfascial SY systems, including
trainings from Tom Myers.
(01:07):
She helps women over 40 buildstrength, balance and body
awareness through sustainableintentional movement as part of
Halazon Fitness and her FeelYour Core program.
In this episode, we're gonnalearn why real progress starts
by teaching people to trusttheir bodies, again, not forcing
them into textbook perfectforms.
(01:29):
How chronic stress, nervoussystem dysregulation and
outdated movement cues such asknees over toes, are sabotaging
client results.
Why empowering clients to listento their interception, so their
inner body awareness and workwith their body instead of
against it, which is the futureof where rehab and movement are
(01:50):
going.
How subtle ways the ego, even asclinicians, even myself.
It can creep into how we workwith clients and how to shift
more to an overall healingcollaborative approach.
How over exercising aesthetic,obsession, and no pain, no gain
culture have distorted ourindustries and how to actually
reframe movement for truestrength function, and
(02:13):
resilience.
Whether you're a pt, a Pilatesinstructor, a personal trainer
or rehab clinician, if you'retired of rigid protocols, you
want to bridge a gap betweenfitness and healing and are
ready to create sustainable andempowering outcomes for your
clients.
This episode is a must listenfor you, so now we'll get to it.
Welcome back to TMI talk withDr.
(02:35):
Mary where we dive intonon-traditional forms of health
that were once labeled as tabooor dismissed as Woo.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mary.
I'm an orthopedic and pelvicfloor physical therapist who
helps health.
Movement and rehab professionalsintegrate whole body healing by
blending the nervous system intotraditional biomechanics to
maximize patient outcomes.
(02:56):
I use a non-traditional approachthat has helped thousands of
people address the deeper rootsof health that often get
overlooked in conventionalwestern training.
And now we are gonna be startingour next episode.
welcome Autumn to the show.
I'm excited that you're here.
So excited to be here.
Thank you.
Yes.
So we're gonna be talking aboutcalling out some of the BS in
(03:16):
the fitness and wellnessindustry, and then also some
unconventional ways that youpractice and, and work with your
clients as well.
I think it's important for us tobe having these conversations
that think outside of the box toprogress us further in our
industries.
So, well, I am so excited.
It's something I.
Love to talk about.
(03:36):
Yeah.
And you know, one of the thingsthat we were chatting about a
little bit before is how muchare these like common patterns
that you see in clients?
Because I know that in thephysical therapy realm, we look
at things just so, just linear,like, oh, I'm gonna look just at
(03:57):
the shoulder, I'm gonna lookjust at the hip.
What are some common patternsthat you see with, with.
Clients and how is thatdifferent than what you were
trained to do?
Well, here's the thing is thatyou're not really, when you're
trained, it depends on what yourcertification is.
And typically in the fitnessindustry, you're gonna get an
overlying like largecertification.
(04:19):
So whether that's your NASM,your ace, your CSCS, it's
something and it's supertextbook.
So you read a lot of books andthen you take a test.
But there's a lot of, like, nowyou're certified, you know, kind
of now what?
It doesn't really tell you howto work with somebody.
It's more so here's a bunch ofcalculations you will never need
(04:39):
to work with a client.
Um, and here's a bunch ofinformation that the textbooks
are almost behind the times alittle bit.
So what I would say is reallyhard is that they may show you a
squat and they might tell youlike very basic principles of a
squat.
And they're gonna show you oneperson doing a squat that one
person looks nothing like thepeople you're gonna train.
(05:02):
And so the patterns that I seeis that a lot of times people,
when they're training someoneare trying to make their client
look like that textbook example.
And instead of looking at thebody in front of them and being
like, none of us are gonna bethat textbook example, and most
textbook examples are one typeof person.
(05:24):
Yeah, the, you were saying likethe skinny white people.
Skinny white people.
Yeah.
There aren't curves and.
You know what?
So then we kind of get to thisthought process of, okay,
everyone's, you know, and thesepeople, this doesn't exist
either, but like everyone'sspines should look a certain way
and like it's very flat, buttheir spine isn't flat.
(05:45):
In fact, it does have curves.
They just maybe don't have thatflesh to accentuate what those
curves are.
So then you go to train somebodywho.
Say maybe has a little bit moregluteal mass, if you will, has
you can say Big butt.
Big butt.
Okay, there you go.
And a smaller waist.
Yeah.
And all of a sudden you're like,wow, that person's arching their
back and I need to make surethat they don't arch their back
(06:07):
in their squats.
And you're like, so then they,you almost are distorting their
backs to look like thattextbook.
Instead of saying like, okay,well where are their bony
landmarks?
Where.
Are they actually in this?
And so oftentimes I thinktrainers, Pilates instructors,
whoever you wanna call it, arethen bringing on pain.
Oh yeah.
(06:27):
Well then it's, then it'sreinforcing, especially if
you're, you're working withwomen or people that have been
susceptible to the culture ofthe body image, the body
dysmorphia.
Right?
So then we're almost reinforcingthat shame of, oh, your body
can't do this.
Right?
Yeah.
And so then they start nottrusting their bodies more.
(06:48):
And so in that we're kind ofreinforcing some trauma onto
the, the client as well.
Thousand, thousand percent.
I had a client who kept tellingme she wanted to lose weight.
It was somebody I knew for awhile.
So before I took her on asclient, I knew her pretty well
as just as a friend.
And then when we started workingtogether, she said she really
(07:09):
wanted to lose weight and shereally wanted to make sure that
she was like.
Toning up, whatever that is.
You know the midsection.
I said, okay.
She said, I need to do Pilates.
Well, here's the thing, just toyour point is that this woman
had more on her midsection andhad a larger chest.
Pilates is done on your back, soas soon as you put her on her
(07:32):
back.
You almost feel it's very hardto move if you can picture
larger chest midsection on yourback and they're asking somebody
to curl head, neck, andshoulders up.
To where their, their heads kindof almost into their body and
she just kept feeling like shewas a failure because she
couldn't go into a Pilates classand do it.
(07:53):
And I'm like, of course youcan't.
It's just, it doesn't work foryour body frame right now.
Doesn't mean we can't getamazing core workout and
exercises in, that's just likeputting you in probably what?
It's the most uncomfortable foryou.
So again, it is, it'sreinforcing, okay, well then I
can't do this unless I look acertain way.
Uh, because that walking toclass, well, how come every
(08:14):
other woman in there feels okaydoing it?
Well, honestly, I feel like alot of times in these fitness
classes, most people don't feelokay and they're, they're
literally trying to fit in andwatching everybody else.
And like, I mean, so many timesI see people in workout classes
doing like the straight legflutter kicks.
Oh my gosh.
That way the amount of peoplethat actually do those right is
(08:34):
like maybe 1%.
And maybe people they're,they're like, why can't I do it?
And so, so many times before Iunderstood this, before I
actually knew like.
How much this affected mynervous system.
Mm-hmm.
And even seeing it in in clientsor patients.
Right.
(08:54):
And you're just like, wow, did Ireinforce some of these patterns
because I subconsciously,mm-hmm.
Started comparing everything tothe textbook and then also.
We're doing what we've learnedto do from the people before us.
Like how long, how many timesdid I tell people earlier in my
career not to squat knees overtoes?
Oh my gosh.
I just can't, I am soembarrassed of my younger self
(09:17):
because it's not like I wasdoing that shit when I was like,
when I am am in squatting to getsomething up.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
No, it's so true.
But I think that, like I heardsome quote one time talking
about how.
You should, you should beembarrassed.
We, every almost year, we shouldbe embarrassed of what we did
the year before.
'cause that means that we'regrowing, we're growing.
And I'm like, okay, that makesme feel a little better.
(09:38):
Because same how many times youbring up the flutter kick and
it's probably one of my leastfavorite exercises.
I it, I hate it.
And how many times I do you tellpeople, okay, put your hands
underneath your butt now keepyour feet a couple inches from
the ground.
Yeah.
Realizing that.
How many people were we puttinginto back spasms?
Like how many people wereactually working their core?
And it's really funny now to gointo classes.
(10:01):
'cause I'll take classes andthey'll have flutter kicks and
I'll bring my legs down to aheight where I can maintain, you
know, stability into my lowerback.
And I maintain my low backcurves and the instructor comes
over and pushes my legs down.
Yeah.
I hate, I hate that.
And I'm like, and I just keepthinking they're well intended
instructors who unfortunatelywere taught percent incorrectly.
(10:22):
Well, I, I don't blame theinstructors.
So when you're listening tothis, it's more of getting us to
challenge the status quo and,and really helping people from a
nervous system perspective.
So I don't think it'sintentional, right?
Like, you know, we're over heresaying that we've done it.
I mean, I've told people foryears.
Not to go knees over toes,because that's what we were
(10:43):
taught.
And the thing that really helpedme is I saw an Instagram post
where a guy was making fun ofthis and he was like, if we only
hinge at our hips and we only dothese things, this is what it
would look like.
And I remember getting mad withabout it, and this is what,
before I did like inner work toknow what my ego was saying.
And um, I sat with it and I waslike, he's not wrong.
(11:04):
I mean, he's actually reallyright.
And there's this big disconnectfrom the PT side and the fitness
world.
I almost feel like in myexperience, PTs can help with
like acute injuries.
Mm-hmm.
But.
Like the really, really goodPTs, they know how to help
people move.
Mm-hmm.
I would agree.
Yeah.
And, and, and fitness know canteach people how to move, but,
(11:27):
but they can't do injuries.
So like, we need to be havingconversations.
I mean, like, yeah.
What are, have you seen?
What have I seen?
And when I was in corporate, Ialmost felt like there was this,
oh my God, it's us versus thepersonal trainers.
It's us versus the Pilates.
It's us versus this.
And I'm like, ew, just stop.
Like.
Th we want people to heal.
(11:47):
Okay.
And, and we heal in community.
Yep.
And in that.
The biggest thing is importantif we're all cohesively teaching
the same stuff.
Where it gets hard is where if Ishare a client with maybe a
chiropractor that tells peoplenot to do certain things, like
never to deadlift ever again, ornever to squat knees over toes
or scaring them into needingadjustments, constantly let
(12:09):
people want to come in foradjustments, let people want to
come in, show them the value,let's not scare them.
So there's a lot of that.
As well, like fear in it.
But I did wanna go back to theinstructor kind of, um,
adjusting the movement is, yeah.
I don't think they mean to dothat, but for many years I had,
(12:29):
um, exercise intolerance, so Ilook strong.
Mm-hmm.
But they'd be like, liftheavier, lift heavier.
And so I do it.
'cause I was embarrassed.
I was like, I'm a physicaltherapist, I can do this.
And then I'd flare up and thenjust never come back.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I think that happens a lot moreto women than you.
Think I find that if a woman hasgood mobility or say is maybe
(12:51):
slightly on the, like hypermobility's like end, they're
gonna look really good moving.
Mm-hmm.
A lot of times they're hangingout in their joints.
A lot of times they don't feelanything that they're doing.
And the, I think as instructors,again, we're taught to look at a
certain thing and then that'swhat it should look like.
And there aren't check-ins.
(13:11):
Yeah.
Just like in your case of, okay,well where are you feeling?
Does this feel good?
Do you feel supported?
Like anything like that, asking,how did you feel last class?
Did it feel good?
Mm-hmm.
Like, there's none of that.
And really putting like theownership with every one of my
clients, I'm like, I actuallynever want you to come back.
I want you to get to the pointwhere you can do it all on your
(13:32):
own.
I've given you the knowledgeI've.
Given you the why's.
I've given you so much.
You've only come for it.
'cause it's fun.
Like we have fun together andaccountability.
And so many of my clients thatI've taught, maybe 15 years or
so, they'll be like, okay, don'tsay anything this session.
And they can say almosteverything that I was gonna say
and they have, because I'm likeputting knowledge back into
people to feel their body.
(13:54):
Is huge.
This, this, this is it.
Mm-hmm.
What you've essentially said isgetting them into their body,
starting to trust theirintuitive movement.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and we call this like,interception is just like, your
body is like awareness in your,of your body, like internally
and their internal cues.
And I find so many times whenpeople are disconnected from
(14:15):
their body, it can mean avariety of different ways.
It can mean.
Potentially that maybe thatperson is neurodivergent.
Mm-hmm.
Maybe they have hypermobility orthe other thing that I'll see,
maybe they don't have those.
Um, and then the other thingthat I'll see is they're just in
chronic fight or flight.
And so with that, they'redissociated from their body
because the body hasn't beentold it's safe.
(14:37):
Thousand percent do you find asyou're saying this, because it's
almost like I find with myclients, I tell'em, I'm like,
okay, we're gonna first pullback your range of motion.
Yeah.
And then we're gonna get reallygood in that spot and then we're
gonna challenge it.
Yeah.
Um, and, and.
I know with you the breath ishuge as the breath should be
(14:59):
huge for everyone.
Do you find sometimes peoplehave a hard time slowing down to
really work on that, likebaseline kind of, um, the
principles where we all athousand percent.
But to me, the key with that is,so when I teach transverse
abdominis mm-hmm.
I've seen this a lot wherepeople are like, turn on your TA
by tilting back.
(15:20):
And I'm like, well, if we lookat the insertion of the ta
right?
It wraps, it's, it literally thehorizontal fibers that wrap
around.
So technically there's not.
A tilt.
Yes.
With that, when you tilt,you're, you're activating the
rectus abdominis, so you'regetting those, those, those
muscles to tilt back.
Yep.
So you're kicking in your rectusand your ta.
(15:42):
So there's also that too, wherethey're like, well, I was told
to tilt when I do this.
And I'm like, yes.
But when we're doing ta you'regonna kick on.
You can't isolate muscles.
Mm-hmm.
You can do the best that youcan.
But, um, with, with that, thebiggest thing to me is teaching
people, Hey.
This is gonna feel like you'redoing nothing.
Mm-hmm.
(16:02):
Mm-hmm.
But just trust me, this is thefoundation.
So the more we can kick on thestabilizers here, so you're
transverse and I show them on ananatomy app so they can see it
and they go.
When they do ta, they onlyalmost feel like they over
contract.
Mm-hmm.
Like, they're like reallypulling in and arching their
backs and really, really trying.
And so I'm like, do 10% of that.
(16:23):
And they're like, whoa, what?
And I just gentle, gentlemovement.
Sometimes I'll cue people tokind of, people do, I'd love to
hear your cues on TA to kind ofsee what you do, but I, I'll say
like the hip bones.
Drawing those hip bones heretogether, kind of zipping up
some Te Snugger.
Snugger snug jeans.
(16:44):
Yep.
Yep.
At the end of an exhale.
Yep.
I use both of those.
I'll often say, I want you tocough or laugh.
Perfect.
Just because a lot of timespeople have no clue where those
muscles are, and I usually usethem as lower abdominals because
in, in, it's interesting, in thePT world, maybe this is, is like
you can use jargon in a way thisdifferent than I think in
(17:06):
fitness sometimes I found.
I have to be really like pelvis.
A lot of people don't know wheretheir pelvis is, uhhuh, so it's
really specific, like lowerabdominals and then I point'em
out, this is where your lowerabdominals are, and then let's
cough or laugh.
Mm-hmm.
Do you feel those muscles, thosemuscles are your lower
abdominals and then we work onhow do you now engage them now
(17:26):
that you know where they are andwhat they are?
I actually don't think it'sdifferent for PTA.
Okay.
I actually think from a PT side,we as a general profession,
it's, we need to break it downmore.
Mm.
Okay.
To help resonate with theclient.
So I think that that's spot onbecause pelvis people are like,
pelvic, what?
Pelvis?
What's that?
(17:47):
Right?
And so, yeah, there you'vegotta, we've gotta be careful,
like I said, thoracic spine theother day with a patient, he's
like, what's that?
I was like, oh shit.
Sorry.
I mean, midback, midback,midback, right?
And so there's this piece that'shard from a, a PT perspective of
that shifting.
So you almost gotta play true.
A little bit of mentalgymnastics.
Yeah.
Because.
We wanna break it down.
(18:08):
So it's, I was with my collegegirlfriends a few months ago and
I was saying something and theywere like, wait, say that again.
I go, oh, I need to say it inlayman's terms.
And one of'em goes, don't callme a layman.
It's So, my mentor said, you satin a room for a long time
learning all this, and no onecares that you sat here and
learned it.
They just, it's not about yourego.
(18:29):
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, because it's also aboutyour ego, right?
Yeah.
So there's like ego and like.
Help, like we, I call it higherself or like your best self,
whatever you wanna call it,right?
And so your ego is gonna belike, oh, if I use big words.
I'm a big time person.
Yes, that's so true.
I think.
(18:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Especially in the first fewyears maybe of your career.
Oh God, yeah.
The amount I, I probablyovercompensated if you're a new
grad.
Hey, just trust that, you know,just, it's not about your ego,
it's not as much about us as weactually think it is.
Yeah.
No, and you know what's sointeresting is though like.
(19:10):
Covering to the ego and what yousaid before is that I find from
my clients, a lot of it isletting go of the ego.
Yes, it is.
Like I had a friend who used toalways say with an exercise,
take the pretty out of it.
And it was such a really bigthing about it.
Like, so when they come intoclasses I'm like, okay, can you
feel, you know, maybe you'vebeen working on a deadlift or
(19:30):
something.
I'm like, can you feel, youknow, glutes engaged, can you
feel this, this, this?
Yep.
And they're like, but you know,my range isn't very big.
I don't care.
Now, can you go into a classwith a bunch of other people who
may be doing a really largerange of motion and also not
care because that's really hard.
'cause here's the thing is youmay not look like what they're
doing, but you know you're doingit right and you're feeling good
(19:53):
and you're not gonna get injuredand you're feeling safe and
protected, whereas you don't,you don't know what's going on
there.
But it takes a while, I think,as.
As you know, for my clients tobe okay going into a group space
and really dropping that ego anddoing what's best for their
body.
Oh, that resonates so much fromlike me taking classes too.
(20:17):
And, and, and I've seen it withclients as well, just that it's
hard to take those classes'causeyou wanna keep up with everybody
else.
The amount of times I've injuredmyself.
Just trying to keep up with, Iremember I entered my hip really
bad when I was like 26 doinglike box jumps.
'cause I was trying to competewith like an 18-year-old next to
me.
I was like, oh, I got this.
And I was like, this is so dumb.
(20:38):
Why did I like, who did I provethat to?
That that 18-year-old never sawme again?
Nobody in that class, that gymdoesn't exist.
Yeah.
You know, but my hip hurts.
You know, my hip's fine now.
But it was just funny'cause thatwas my first experience with the
ego in a workout class where Igot injured and I just thought.
Oh, okay.
This is, this is interesting.
But you see it too.
(20:58):
Yeah.
How to get your clients to, totrust that, hey, this might be
too much.
And hey, it doesn't, doesn'tmean you're weak.
It actually means you're strong.
It actually means you havecourage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you can't have couragewithout being vulnerable about
it.
Thousand percent.
You've gotta put those blinderson.
And you also don't know how manyof those people in the room
(21:19):
have.
Either Ben, pt because theydidn't listen, have, uh, you
know, seen somebody else.
Like, I, I will often say,'causeI see, you know, people from
different gyms, um, often if Ilike, know the community type of
thing, and I'm like, you don'tknow that I've seen so many
people in the, in your class forcertain things.
And then I try to teach them,okay.
(21:42):
So we know, say maybe it'ssomebody who has a harder time
firing up their, um, transverseabdo, okay.
And then we really learn how tofire it up.
We understand position into adeadlift.
We'll then talking them through,okay, you get this?
However, now if we add speed,power choreography, gosh, a
(22:02):
bigger range of motion.
You're gonna have to bring thatfocus right back to it, because
all of those are gonna challengeit even more so, which means,
then it goes into the how do youfeel today?
Did you sleep last night?
Where's your stress level at?
Where's your emotional stresslevel at?
Because if you're superstressed, that deadlift, that
could turn into a super heavykettlebell swing.
(22:24):
Yeah, you're not doing it today.
Yeah, you're at a higher risk ofbeing injured because you, you
just nailed your hip hinge, butnow you're gonna throw in heavy
weight and power and speed.
And you're exhausted and you'regonna think that you're gonna be
able to control that movement inthe same way.
It's just, it's not gonnahappen.
Well, that's why the HRV is soimportant.
I mean, but here's the thing issometimes those aren't even
(22:46):
accurate either.
Yeah.
But, um, and just looking atgetting the patient or the
client to understand too, whentheir body's kind of tapped out,
we were like taught, oh, okay,well we're gonna do now, we're
gonna progress these six weeksand then day, the six week we're
gonna go up to this way.
Well, what if that person.
(23:08):
Is, is experiencing like a lotof stress that night.
Mm-hmm.
Or the day before or that weekbefore.
There's not this, I was thinkingabout this the other day when I
went to the gym'cause I waslike, I can lift heavy when I
wanna lift heavy.
Mm-hmm.
But sometimes when I'm underlike change in my life or things
like that, there's so much ofthat where you're just, you have
to listen to the body.
(23:29):
'cause I know that.
On the days that I feel strong,I feel strong.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm goingheavier.
But there are days where it'slike I'm just moving.
Mm-hmm.
Because so much of the fitnessindustry before is just like,
let's look good.
Mm-hmm.
And that hate made me hateexercise.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
And so, and, and I've seen thatwith clients too, where they
hate exercise.
They're like, I don't wannaexercise.
'cause it reminds them of thisbody dysmorphia of all the
(23:52):
bullshit that we heard in thenineties with mm-hmm.
All the, the movements ofgetting us skinny and all this
stuff.
Right.
Whatever.
And in that we developed an in,I, I still think we're breaking
away from it.
I don't think we're there yet.
Mm-hmm.
But there's this still thisthing of, well, I work out to
burn off what I ate last night.
Mm-hmm.
(24:13):
Yeah.
And that if, if we're stillsaying that, and we're still
hearing clients say that, ifwe're still saying that that's
an unhealthy relationship withexercise, that we need to heal.
Yes.
And so much of the body is likemoving.
So we know the lymphatic system.
The lymphatic system, so ourlymph does not flow without
muscle contraction.
(24:34):
So if you're thinking of it froma perspective of looking good,
but not looking at it as, Hey,I'm getting blood flow to my
muscles.
Yeah, I'm getting the lymphaticdrain, the lymph system moving.
I'm telling my body I'm safe.
Mm-hmm.
My heart rate's getting up, I'mreleasing energy or built up
tension, maybe.
Um, I'm getting my oxygen up, soI'm, I'm working my lungs more.
(24:57):
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Yep.
That's a different, that's adifferent energy to go.
Totally different into aworkout, then I wanna be skinny.
And the funny thing about thatthough is that working out that
way.
Is actually how people loseweight.
Thousand percent.
I find people actually loseweight, um, when they start
loving themselves of a thousandpercent.
And what I would say is I'm abig fan of staying in my, you
(25:22):
know, my lane when it comes tofitness.
So if I do notice somebody whohas a distorted, you know.
Version of working out oreating.
And I'm not really gonnanecessarily like food for sure.
I'm not tapping into, I'm gonnarefer them out.
But what I will do a lot is askthe whys and keep bringing the
whys back because Are youworking out?
(25:44):
Because some kind I have,they're working out because they
need to get out of the brain.
Okay, well, why?
Like, and we get kind of down toit.
Some of them, well, I'm doingthis because from a young child,
my mother talked about herweight.
You really get to understandsomebody.
And to me then you get tounderstand how their workouts
are shaped.
Because if you can get somebodyto realize, and again, this is
(26:07):
not my job, to then go, okay,let's work on healing that inner
child.
Let me refer you to someone, butI can understand this is coming
from childhood.
So how can I shape workouts thatare gonna feel a little bit more
comfortable for that person?
Because what we, we do realize,at least for me, is when I look
at clients that have a toughrelationship with movement or
food, um, not food so much'causeI just, I don't work with that
(26:30):
at all.
But movement in particular.
Is that I don't wanna just pullthe rug out from underneath
them.
Mm-hmm.
Like if they're used to workingout three hours a day, I'm not
gonna say you need to stopbecause that three hours a day
is probably holding themtogether in some way.
But when we can figure out,okay, well the why is because
you gotta get outta your head.
(26:50):
Okay.
I'm all for you getting outtayour head in a movement shaped
version.
But instead of beating ourselvesup, can we go on a walk?
Can we listen to a podcast?
Can we, you know, like, yeah,you can still move.
You know, I, my husband's one ofthose.
He's like, I gotta move sevendays a week.
Awesome.
Okay.
When I met him, those seven daysa week we're really hard.
Seven days a week.
He now.
(27:11):
Nope.
He recognizes he needs sleepmore.
There's some days he just goeson a walk, uh, because I get, we
wanna clear our head and thatconstant, I need to pound myself
into the ground.
That's a really hard one That'snot gonna end well from.
Gosh, as you know, from thejoint perspective to the hormone
perspective, to the so manydifferent ways.
(27:33):
Well, because we're, we'reseeing this, I work with a lot
of women or people inperimenopause or menopause, and
in that.
We're having to untrain some ofthese patterns, right?
So that's, that age group is, ismore like millennials or like
Gen X.
Mm-hmm.
And so we've been susceptible tothe nineties of all of, Hey, low
(27:55):
fat cardio is how you loseweight.
Mm-hmm.
We actually know now it's theopposite.
Right?
Yep.
So I had, I did a podcast onestrogen dominance and one of
the things that she was talkingabout is how much, uh,
progesterone is made.
It's a interesting, it startsfrom cholesterol.
So if we're not eating fat, it,it's this breakdown.
(28:16):
Interesting.
And, and how much of the peoplein the nineties that were going
through perimenopause not eatingfat, do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
They were probably so rage thatthey had that cardio.
Yes.
So then yeah, they're doingcardio.
Oh, that's making it worse.
Without strength training.
Yeah.
And and there's so much rightnow and everybody needs to
strength every protein, protein,protein.
I'm like just, oh my gosh.
(28:37):
Can we chill out for fiveseconds?
I get it.
Yeah, it's great.
We're on this pendulum to theopposite side now and I'm like,
let's, let's even this out.
But in that, when you're doingso much cardio, you're pushing
your body, your body startsthinking you're under fight or
flight again, which then whenyou are under fight or flight,
your body produces cortisol inlieu or more cortisol over
(28:59):
progesterone.
Oh my God.
Do you see what I'm saying?
Yeah.
It's just we're getting hitdouble whammy.
Wow.
Yeah, so, so there's this,there's this balance.
But here's also too, here's thething, there's a lot of people
that don't wanna do strengthtraining.
It's a lot.
Mm-hmm.
And so we have to meet peoplewhere they're at.
Well, you could still like doingstuff around the house, squats
(29:21):
and movement like that.
How do you get somebody whomaybe doesn't wanna strength
train?
To, to do it because yes, weknow, we know logically muscle
mass helps longevity.
Mm-hmm.
We know it helps with bloodsugar regulation.
We know that, um, that it helpswith bone density.
Right?
Yeah.
And so it also helps withmetabolism.
(29:44):
And so, but.
If somebody doesn't wanna do it,they're not gonna do it.
I laughed when you said thatbecause I've just changed my
approach to something I never,ever, ever thought that I would
do.
I've always said to people, thisneeds to be fun and it needs to
work on your schedule and itneeds to be sustainable.
And I still believe a lot ofthose, and just recently, one of
(30:05):
my best friends, I said to her,I don't care that you don't like
strength training.
I don't care.
Do you wanna play with yourgrandkids?
'cause she has 20-year-old, 20mid twenties kids.
She said yes, and I said, weneed to get you strong.
What I can tell you is you don'tneed to be in the gym four or
five days a week, two days, 30minutes.
(30:27):
Can you give me that to giveyourself strength and that life
you want?
She's a thousand percent.
I don't care if I don't like it.
So I think sometimes I will meetsomeone always where they're at.
And I'll always say to people,as adults, we have to do things
we don't wanna do all day long.
Yeah.
So to me, if someone says theydon't like an exercise, I'm
like, great.
Done.
We can take it out.
(30:47):
Like there's so many exercises,I can get whatever done through,
you know, like whatever I needto get done for them to get
stronger, we can do it with suchdifferent way.
And I think sometimes askingpeople, this is something my
therapist actually said to me.
He was like, well, what do youwant?
And when I said, you know,whatever it is, because a lot of
(31:08):
people will say,'cause I wannafeel stronger.
I wanna be stronger when I getolder.
I.
Okay.
Then you do want to strengthtrain.
It doesn't have to be heavy,heavy lifting.
It doesn't have to look like thepicture in your head.
It doesn't have to be CrossFit.
I think they think of CrossFit.
It doesn't have to be CrossFit.
Yeah.
But we can get you stronger in away that I'm not telling you
you're gonna enjoy it, like youlike to go out with your
(31:29):
girlfriends, but you won't fearit and you won't hate it.
That is what I can give you.
Yeah.
And so that involves a lot oftalking to find out too.
Like, well, what is it that youdon't like?
Is it because you did take aclass that was CrossFit or an
instructor made you do anexercise to look a certain way
and it felt really bad in yourbody?
(31:50):
I can make sure those thingsdon't happen.
And if you want to be stronger,we do need to get you stronger.
Like I love that because I thinkit's, it's the why behind it,
right?
Yeah.
So maybe they're not motivated'cause they don't love it.
I know, I feel like I've almostgone.
In the past or even just evenjust like a year ago even to
(32:11):
like, let's just do what yourbody wants to do.
And it's like, well, there'ssome stuff we got.
So the pendulum right?
There's some stuff that we knowcan be helpful and we know can
really help people, right?
Like if somebody doesn't wannadrink water, I'm sorry, we have
to still drink water.
So what can we do to help youdrink water?
Right, exactly.
So there's some foundationalthings and maybe if somebody's
not wanting to do something,like you said, let's shift it.
(32:32):
Well, what is your goal?
Do you wanna be able to get upand off?
Up and down off the ground withyour kids.
Do you want to go strong intomenopause?
Do you want to do these things?
Right?
And so like for me, sometimes Idon't like strength training,
but I'm like, I am going intoperimenopause strong.
I'm going into with muscle massbecause I know that's gonna help
regulate my blood sugar andthat's gonna help my hormones
(32:54):
percent.
And so, and then we can kind oftranslate that too into, into
our clients or patients.
And I think that.
I love that approach becausehere's the thing, there's also
like this whole movement ofself-love and I'm all about it.
Mm-hmm.
But.
You can also go way too far.
Everything's a pendulum.
So if you just never do anythingthat you don't wanna do, first
(33:14):
of all, that's a privilege.
Um, second of all, we have to dothings that we don't wanna do
sometimes.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
And so how can we reframe it?
Yeah.
Into a way that is motivatingfor somebody, right?
Like, I don't necessarily loverunning, but I know how much it
helps my cardio and I, how muchit helps my lungs.
And so I don't do a ton of it,but I still.
(33:37):
I'm doing it'cause I can picturemy lungs expanding and
contracting and like helping,helping with that and making
sure, so when I do wanna docertain activities, like maybe
next time I travel I can hikewithout worrying about the
cardio aspect.
And then, um.
It's just, yeah, it's justimportant to look at all these
things, but I really like thatperspective, and I think it's
(33:59):
all a pendulum.
It's all a pendulum.
It's all kind of sometimes areframe.
And look, I think as a fitnesswellness industry, we did a
really poor job for a long time.
If you think about it, it was, Iremember I would always travel
and take the hardest class inwhatever city because I always.
Thought, oh, I wanna see this,that, that makes you so much
stronger.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(34:19):
And um, the funniest one I evertook was in London.
It was deemed the hardest classin London.
And what marketing is that?
Right?
It's like, well, one, you'relike, usually you have a PR firm
that whatever, that you'regetting that the award.
But also I went into the classand they were like, okay, for
seven minutes we're gonna doburpees.
Now we're gonna do this.
(34:40):
And.
I tell my clients, I'm like,it's really easy to destroy you.
It's really easy to make itreally hard.
It's really hard, or it justtakes thought for a trainer to
program workouts that continueto help you feel better and
better.
And I mean, we did an awful job.
We wanted.
Uh, the PR of fitness was like,how hard can it be?
(35:03):
How much can you burn?
How sore can you be?
Like those were were can youdestroy yourself?
Yes.
Basically.
So that's why winning the award.
But I think that's why like I'dsay people around like 40 and up
right now, especially women orpeople going into perimenopause,
they have this resistance tostrength training.
'cause the whole thing was like,I don't wanna get.
(35:24):
I don't wanna get bulky.
Mm-hmm.
I don't.
Um, and then I also, it looksscary.
Mm-hmm.
And, and, and what we've seen onthe media are just like these
intense, crazy workouts.
And I'm like, what are youtraining for?
Where are you going?
Are you in the military?
Yes.
If you're not in the military,what are you doing?
Well then there's also, there'salso this piece too, of over
(35:46):
exercising as a trauma response.
Mm-hmm.
Oh, interesting.
Not knowing how to regulate andunderstand what's coming up.
So it's, it can be becomeaddiction.
Yeah.
No, just like anything else, athousand percent can become an
addiction.
Mm-hmm.
And so if you see somebodyobsessively doing it, that's
probably a sign.
And if we're doing it ourselves,it's probably a sign.
(36:07):
What, what's causing us toobsess about this?
Because movement can be reallygreat, but then again, a
pendulum, right?
It can go to the other sidewhere it can be borderline
unhealthy, just like anything.
Yep.
Yep.
And so when, when we feel kindof this trigger or this
response, um, you can talk aboutit with a therapist, you're just
sitting, sitting down andunderstanding where is this
(36:28):
coming from?
Why do I feel this urge to dothis?
Like how am I training forsomething?
If not, yeah, why thisimpulsiveness?
So any of these like big, bigextreme things of anything,
right?
It's like binge eating and thennot eating at all.
So like what's the in between?
I think so too.
And it's the attachment to it.
Totally.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Can you let it go?
(36:49):
Mm-hmm.
For a few days?
And will you be okay?
Well, I also think that there'sthis theory too, that if you
look fit, you're healthy.
But yeah, if you're screamingand you have road rage all the
time, or you're constantly in arush and just frazzled, is that
health too?
No.
And also.
If we can stop on that.
(37:09):
The, uh, the amount of times I,I don't know if you get this,
that I have women talking aboutabdominals and how they really
want to train their apps, theywanna get strong apps and how
they're not strong.
And there's so many women that Isay there's a lot.
I'd say the abdominals aredefinitely underworked thousand
percent.
(37:30):
I have a lot of clients and I'mlike, you are really strong.
They're like, I don't have abs.
I'm like describing, especiallyto women how having abs.
Does not equate to being strong.
Yeah.
And then what goes into play?
Like what I wish if, you know,we spoke about the influencer
world, I wish so many people onthere that looked really fit.
(37:51):
Could also credit genetics like.
The amount of women to showtheir abdominals where their
hormones would sit.
Just to, I, I say that toclients all the time.
I'm like, here's the thing iswe'd probably take a lot of
pleasure outta your life too.
And then two, your hormones mayget destroyed in order for you
(38:12):
to have this look of what yousee as being healthy.
Oh, yeah.
I've, I've had a friend, um,I've had many friends where
they're just look jacked all thetime.
Yeah.
And they don't work out thatmuch.
And that's genetics.
And it's really hard for womento get six packs.
I mean, because so hard.
We carry more visceral fat ingeneral.
(38:32):
Also, we have hormonefluctuations as well.
And in order to get that, ifyou're not genetically inclined
to it, you have to really cutout a lot outta your diet.
And that can almost feed more ofan eating disorder as well.
So we have to look at it fromthis perspective of like, Hey.
Is this, is this health?
Does this feel good?
Because I know I can get a, likeI have good, I have decent
(38:55):
genetics.
Yeah.
Like I can maintain muscle mass.
Mm-hmm.
I've been weightlifting on andoff since like high school.
Mm-hmm.
But I still have like goodgenetics.
Like I'll fully admit likethat's, that's part of it.
But I'm also not like superjacked and ripped because I
also.
I know what that takes to get tothat point, and it will cause me
(39:16):
to flare up in a body, dis sometype of eating issue, some type
of eating, and I don't wanna, Idon't wanna fuck with that.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, but it, that's also inconsider too, when you see
people in there, how much arethey restricting?
How much of that is an eatingdisorder?
Mm-hmm.
How much of that is, is, isgenetics?
Mm-hmm.
And how much of it is.
(39:36):
What they're doing.
I mean, it's, it's hard to know,but I I love that you called
that out though.
'cause the influencer world,it's just, it's getting hard
sometimes to go to the gymbecause everything is just all
about videos and these outfitsand like, you know, showing off
our bodies and all these thingsand hey, I am all about people
(39:58):
being proud, but there's alsothis point where it can, it can
affect other people around thatmaybe are struggling with their
body image.
It.
And when that's your only job,it's Okay, well, what all goes
into play?
Do you have someone cooking foryou?
A lot of times, shockingly, thepeople who are showing you
(40:18):
workouts actually aren't doingthose.
They're not doing the workoutsthey're showing you.
And if they are, how many hourson top of that are they working
out, which.
For, I'm not saying everyone,but for a lot of people it's a
lot of working out.
Um, and then I look at it and Isay, okay, you can have three
things in life.
(40:38):
You can have your hormones, youcan have performance, you can
have aesthetics.
I wasn't the one that createdthis.
I had somebody a long while tellme that.
And they said, you can't haveall three optimally at once.
And it was very true.
So if you're seeing somebodywhose aesthetics, you're like,
wow, okay.
Are the other two optimized you?
Yeah.
You don't know by somebody's,looks like you really do not
(41:01):
know.
Do not know.
And um, well, it goes, it goesback to, you know, some of the
BS like in the wellnessindustry.
And like you've said, likethey're probably not doing some
of those exercises.
And I've seen this in healthcaretoo, where they'll tell people,
even in functional medicine andphysical therapy, they'll tell
people, do your breath work, dothese things, but they're not
doing them themselves.
Yeah.
And that provides a differentenergy when you come in with
(41:23):
that energy because if you'renot grounded in your space, if
you are not centered and youdon't know, you don't practice
breath work and you don'tpractice mindfulness to tell
somebody else that is hypocrisyto, I completely agree.
Yep.
Yeah, and a lot of the people inthe, I think in the social media
(41:44):
space, they're not working withpeople.
Like so they're telling you it,but you're right.
Like if you came into a spacewith somebody, like if I came
and walked in with you, I know Ican feel your authenticity.
I can feel, you know everythingthat you're saying.
Okay.
It's something that youpractice.
Try to practice yourself.
I.
If you just post a video, youdon't really, you don't know.
(42:06):
And so then we do, we insteadjust go into the spiral of what
somebody looks like or whatthey're showing for that, what,
30 seconds?
Millisecond.
Millisecond.
It's so, and you've seen, andI'm sure you've seen it, where
people are so different oncamera than off.
And so there's, there's thatthing and that, well, that, and
that goes to one of the biggestthings that we were also talking
about too, is when you takethese.
(42:28):
Continuing education, or youtake these courses or you learn
these programs, let's stoptaking them blindly at face
value because there's alwaysgonna be a newer trend.
There's gonna be a newerapproach.
You are so unique in yourselfthat it's so important that you,
you filter it through your lens.
(42:51):
That person that came up withthat protocol, they did it based
on their lens from somebodyelse.
Yeah.
Right?
Mm-hmm.
And, and I, I feel like that, Idon't know if it's like that in
your world, but in the physicaltherapy world, I'll see new
grads just be like, oh, I didn'tlearn that or this.
I'm like, well, what intuitivelydo you feel feels right for this
person?
Because it's gonna adjust basedon each individual person.
(43:13):
So giving yourself thatpermission to adjust things
based on what you feel fit.
And maybe you, maybe you alignwith what one of the, the people
leading the certificationprogram say, maybe you leave
another piece out.
So do you see that?
I see it a ton.
And here's the thing is likeevery state is different.
So whether or not you need inyour state a certification, some
(43:36):
states you don't even need acertification, which is kind of
frightening rhythms.
Yeah.
It is these big certs and therereally isn't a whole lot of
good, like they do.
They show you, here's a squat,here's a deadlift.
But there isn't a lot of depthto them.
But what I would encouragepeople to do is like, you get
your, your main cert, okay?
That's gonna get you in the doorplaces.
(43:58):
But then what speaks to you?
Is it something, is it a breathwork class?
Because you know, that's thefoundation of all movement.
Is it a, you know, some classesI've taken are, you know, like
maybe like a fascia class orsomething else.
Go, then take these classes.
Now here's the problem becauseit is wonderful, you know, it's
(44:18):
a, it's a business.
Is that under each one of thesecertifications, here are their
pre-approved classes that youcan take?
I have yet to, I've.
Very rarely, I'm gonna say Ihaven't, but I'm sure I did in
my past, took one of theirpre-approved classes.
I went in and took what.
I resonated with like, what didI wanna learn more about in my
(44:39):
body?
Because as soon as you feel itand see it in yours, you'll see
it in everyone.
It changes.
This is why it's so importantthat we practice this ourselves
so much.
'cause then you see things thatyou're like, I never saw it.
And then your intuition, whichis really learned experiences,
starts to grow.
And then you petition forcredit.
Because I have, and again, I'mgonna say I've never, maybe it's
(44:59):
happened once.
I really can't remember.
Um.
Had them say no to petitioning,because if they go, it's a
reputable company, you know,it's somebody like that's
teaching a really great shoulderworkshop and you have shoulder
pain.
So you go to it, they're gonnasay yes to it.
You just, it takes you a littlemore work to do and you'll be
(45:19):
such a better instructor, coach,trainer, whatever you wanna call
it in the end.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's not, I mean, thecertification programs can be
wonderful.
Yeah.
I mean, they can be great.
They also.
You know, these are, these arethings that people have made
themselves, so it's not stoppingyou or anybody else from doing
it yourself as well.
Um, I think that I used to justblindly trust everybody and just
(45:43):
say, oh, this is fact.
And then I started realizing,well, um, like when I took my
first dry needling course, theywere like, just keep needling it
until the muscle stopped and.
I did that with people and theywere all flaring up and I was
like, well, I'm not, I'm justgonna go in, let me get a couple
twitches and call it a day.
'cause when I'm needled likethat, I'm like, I'm not going
back.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
(46:03):
And so what's the maximumbenefit with the least amount of
pain?
Mm-hmm.
And I see this too, with likedeep tissue work where people
are like, I'm gonna beat theshit outta that muscle.
I'm like, this person is alreadytraumatized and we're like
traumatizing them.
So the muscle, the whole body'sgonna tense.
Mm-hmm.
I've never understood thosereally deep, deep, deep tissue
work that doesn't incorporatebreath, that doesn't
(46:24):
incorporate, it's just, just forpain.
I don't get'em either.
I had a really greatpractitioner once say to me, and
I loved this, he said, threeminutes.
You spend three minutes on aspot.
It shouldn't take your breathaway.
If it, it does, it's too deep.
Spend three minutes.
Get off of it because you knowwhat, if you spend longer and
you do get it to release, it mayhave held your whole system up.
(46:47):
And it was so true.
And when I talked to my clients,they're like, I've had a massage
where they spent 20 minutes onsomething and the next day I
couldn't walk.
Yeah.
Because like you said, sometimesthere's like, there's a reason
it's not releasing.
There is a reason.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And we don't know.
And if you don't understand thefascial system and how that's
all connected.
It.
It can, yeah, you can kind offree up one spot and then
(47:09):
everything else kind of startsgetting flared up with it.
But I think that, yeah, that'sexactly it.
And more is not better.
And you're seeing this trendback.
Yeah.
Where, and then I almost feellike we're gonna go in this
opposite direction of just liketoo soft.
And I'm like, let's go inbetween.
Right.
You've got the masculine andfit.
We're so far masculine energy infitness.
(47:31):
I'm like, let's bring it.
Centered.
Mm-hmm.
Not all the way over here, justcentered.
Right.
You can still push people, theycan still do hard workouts, but
maybe they don't do them everyday.
Maybe we meet them where they'reat, but.
In summary of what we talkedabout today is yeah.
Meeting, meeting the, the clientwhere they're at, looking at
their body, their tissue.
Mm-hmm.
And their body's gonna responddifferently than somebody else.
(47:53):
And where we learn a lot of thisis literally through textbooks,
which are real thin whitepeople.
Yep.
They all look the same.
I've never actually seentextbook in my 14 years of being
a physical therapist, I've, Ithink I've mainly only had like
one or two textbook cases.
Mm-hmm.
And so, so much of this.
Is what I'm getting at isteaching people how to trust
(48:14):
their intuition as a, as a, as ahealthcare or fitness or, or
movement professional.
Because so much of that is, isimportant.
It really is.
So, and I would say on to add tothat is that.
Uh, don't be scared to refer outand say you don't know.
So for me, if a client, if we'rehitting a brick wall, yeah, I
(48:37):
know.
Okay.
It's something maybe with yournervous system, maybe a somatic
healer will help.
Maybe someone who does.
I refer out all the time becauseto me, I'm like, okay, I, I want
this person just feel theirbest.
The more hands on the, thebetter.
And so I have a, a group ofpeople that I am like, okay, I
(49:02):
think this person would begreat.
I think this person would begreat because this, we've hit a
point where there's somethingelse going on and.
I can sit here and have you doside leg lifts all day long.
We're not getting, we're notgonna get it anywhere.
However, maybe if you saw abreath work coach or a, yeah.
(49:22):
Somebody else, it's gonna helpunlock something and then we're
gonna be able to get a littlebit further.
Yeah, it's, it doesn't meanyou're a bad.
Professional.
It, it means you're, you know,your lane and you're, you're
wondering what's going on.
I will say that a lot of clientsthat come see us, they've
already been to most people inthe western medicine field, so
I'll start getting them to belike, Hey, can you go into
(49:44):
acupuncture?
Are you working with atherapist?
And sometimes people.
They can be resistant to it.
Mm-hmm.
But also getting in anotherperson from maybe a different
perspective than they've had.
You know, I have just havingpeople come in and explaining,
hey, you know, maybe easternmedicine along those lines can
help.
(50:04):
So I think acupuncture's like agood and nice cohesive piece to
add into the physical therapyrealm.
'cause it helps them.
Work with their meridians andhelp with the energy flow so
that way they can feel, feelbetter, but.
This was such a greatconversation.
Thank you.
I hope, I think a lot of peoplewill benefit from this to know
(50:26):
that we're all doing the bestthat we can.
None of us got instructions onthis Earth.
No.
And the instructions that we gotwere from other people who have
been trying to figure this out.
And then institutionalized likeeducation, you know that we
start there with physicaltherapy, right?
Uh, but then all these otherthings, all the things that I've
(50:47):
learned is just.
Self-learn through experiencingit yourself.
Right?
Go through these movements, gothrough these practices and see
how you feel.
But, and, um, how can they reachyou if, um, they'd like to
contact you?
I am on social media.
I have to think, I'm onInstagram.
I can pull it up.
I can tag it in the bottom ifyou don't know your, and then
(51:09):
have a YouTube channel.
Okay.
My girlfriend and I created aYouTube channel.
It's Feel Your Core.
Okay.
And basically it's all of whatwe talked about is that.
We recognize exactly this needand how the textbook exactly
what we talked about, and weteach how you feel your body and
how to move while feeling yourbody.
And so we have tons of classesand things up on.
(51:29):
I love that on YouTube.
Cool.
I'll tag that too.
So thank you so much.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for listeningto my podcast.
It would be a huge help if youcould subscribe and rate the
podcast.
It helps us reach more peopleand make a bigger impact.
I would also love it if youcould join my email list, which
is LinkedIn, the caption forpodcast updates, upcoming offers
(51:50):
and events.
You can also find me on TikTok,YouTube and Instagram at Dr.
Mary pt.
Thanks again.
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