May 4, 2026 • 41 mins
Alicia Couri is the Founder and CEO of Audacious Concepts Inc., a boutique leadership firm that helps organizations boost performance by aligning action with instinct. She is a Kolbe-Certified Consultant, Predictive Index expert, TEDx speaker, and cancer survivor. Her diverse background informs her unique approach to leadership development, emphasizing not just what you think or feel, but how you instinctively act.
She is also the founder of RedCarpet CEO, a digital media and content platform dedicated to amplifying powerful voices. In this episode, Alicia shares insights on a range of critical topics, including conative intelligence, the deep insights offered by the Kolbe assessment, the pervasive issue of burnout among high performers, the cultivation of audacious confidence, and the vital role of self-advocacy in both leadership and personal health.
This conversation is a must-listen for anyone seeking to understand their innate strengths, combat professional exhaustion, and lead with authenticity and courage.
The Third Part of the Mind: What Is Conation?
The human mind is traditionally understood through two primary lenses: the cognitive, encompassing IQ, skills, and reasoning, and the affective, which covers emotional intelligence, personality, and values. However, Alicia introduces us to the crucial third part: conation. Conation represents the instinctive drive to act, the innate wiring that dictates how individuals approach problem-solving and take action when faced with unstructured situations.
It's important to differentiate conation from mere gut instinct. While gut instinct can be an impulsive, "lizard-brain" reaction, conation is a performance instinct—a consistent, natural pattern of behavior that emerges when an individual is free to act in their own way. This intrinsic force profoundly influences how we engage with tasks and challenges.
The concept of conation was extensively researched by Kathy Kolbe, inspired by Aristotle's writings on volition. Kolbe's work built upon her father's legacy, who founded the Wonderlic cognitive assessment, providing a complementary framework for understanding human potential.
"You can think about a problem, you can feel about a problem. This is how you're actually going to do the solution for the problem. That's conation."
— Alicia Couri
The Kolbe Assessment and Why It Matters for Leaders
The Kolbe A Index is a powerful 36-question assessment designed to measure an individual's innate conative strengths. It evaluates four key action modes: Fact Finder (how one gathers and shares information), Follow Through (how one organizes and works with patterns and systems), Quick Start (how one handles risk and change), and Implementation (how one interacts with tangible objects and three-dimensional space).
The results are displayed on a continuum of 1-10 across three distinct zones, providing a nuanced understanding of a person's natural inclinations. Notably, the assessment is remarkably stable, validated by over 50 years of test-retest research, indicating that these conative strengths are fundamental and unchanging aspects of one's being.
For leaders, understanding their unique conative design is transformative. It allows them to stop blindly following advice that contradicts their natural instincts, a common pitfall that often leads to burnout. By aligning their actions with their inherent strengths, leaders can operate more efficiently and sustainably, conserving their mental energy for what truly matters.
"When you're operating outside of that mental energy, it's like kindling — it burns up quickly. But if you're operating within it, it's like solid wood that takes a long time to burn, but keeps the fuel going."
— Alicia Couri
Conative Misalignment and the Burnout Epidemic
Kolbe's research, including brain scans, has shed light on the profound impact of conative m
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly power
lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who work indigital and choose to share
their knowledge, power, andconnections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:31):
And today's guest is someone whohas made it her mission to help
leaders stop grinding and startleading from a place of genuine
strength.
Alicia Corey is the founder andCEO of Audacious Concepts Inc.,
a boutique leadership firm thathelps organize organizations
boost performance by aligningaction with instinct.
A Kobe certified consultant,productive index consultant, and
(00:54):
TEDx speaker, Alicia works withleaders across industries to
reduce stress, build resilience,and lead with clarity through
the lens of cognitive strengths.
She's also the founder of RedCarpet CEO, where she channels
her passion for digital mediaand content creation.
And today she is here to talkabout how we can ditch the
(01:15):
hustle mentality, avoid burnout,and lead with what she calls
audacious confidence.
Welcome to the Power Lounge,Alicia.
So glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Yay, we've made it.
I know it's been a journey toget here.
So we're here.
It has been.
Yeah, some technicaldifficulties and life things and
everything.
Scheduling and all the things,but that's life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
That is life.
And I'm so, so glad you're here.
I mean, it's going to tie innicely with the conversation
today, right?
Um, you built audacious conceptsaround the idea of aligning
action with instinct.
And before we go into yourframeworks and your
methodologies, I would love foryou to share a moment of your
experience that made you realizethat most re most leaders are
(02:00):
operating actually out ofalignment.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
That's a great question to start off with
because it there was no specificmoment that I can pinpoint,
except in conversations withpeople, when actions don't meet
expectations or results.
That's misalignment.
(02:24):
You know, when you're you're thewords you're saying or the
things that you're trying to dodon't meet the results that
you're getting, somewhere alongthe line there's misalignment.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
What does that actually feel like in your body?
I'm kind of curious becauseyou're talking about instinct
and like gut feeling.
So I'm just kind of curious.
What does that feel like?
And and what are those feelingsthat we often tend to ignore?
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Well, I'm gonna just clarify something a second.
The instinct that we arereferring to when I'm with the
framework and the work that wedo, it's not a gut instinct.
It's actually a performanceinstinct.
It's how your brain was wired tomake decisions, problem solve,
(03:05):
and act when you're not givenspecific directions.
So it's your natural, innatewiring that is like pre
pre-wired into your brain atbirth of how you how you solve
problems.
That's the instinct we'retalking about, not necessarily a
like a um lizard brain instinct,right?
(03:29):
When danger comes, we run.
It's not that kind of instinct,not that kind of gut.
It's more of an instinct, it's adefault wire.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Well, let's let's dig into that more because my
next question is it's you talk alot about the third part of the
mind, connotation, which most ofus haven't really heard of or
talked about.
So could you break that down?
Um, what connotation is and whyit is the missing piece that so
many aren't talking about?
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Yeah, so conation is the conitive part of the mind.
So when you look at how the mindoperates, there are three main
functions for decision-making,problem solving.
Um, it's the cognitive, whicheverybody understands that part.
It's your thinking mind.
(04:15):
And when we think, when the waywe define the thinking mind, it
is your IQ, your skills, yourreasoning abilities, your
knowledge experience, and youreducation.
That's the cognitive piece.
And then we have the affectivepiece, which is around emotional
intelligence.
That's the feeling mind.
So again, that goes back to thatgut that you were talking about
(04:37):
before.
That's the feeling mind.
That is where your personality,your preferences, your desires,
motivations, uh, and andemotions and your values, that's
where that part of the and andthat's in the limbic system of
the brain.
That's that emotional part ofyour of the mind.
And then that conitive piece isreally that instinct, that
(05:00):
drive, that necessity, yourmental energy.
It's your innate force fortaking action and doing things.
And we measure it in fourdifferent ways, which I can get
to get into um later on.
But there are four specificactions that we're measuring.
So you can look at it this way: you can think about a problem, (05:17):
undefined
you can feel about a problem.
This is how you're actuallygoing to do the solution for the
problem.
That's conation.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Very interesting.
And I kept saying connotation,but conation, that's awesome.
I love that.
That's fascinating.
So the Colby assessment, that'scentral to the work that you do
as well.
Yeah.
How does understanding someone'sKobe results um actually change
what they do in the way theylead on a day-to-day basis?
And honestly, to you, like forthose who aren't familiar with
(05:50):
it, maybe a little bit ofcontext about that first.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Absolutely.
So Colby, Kathy Colby, soColby's after her name, Kathy
Colby, about 50 years agostarted doing some research in
this conitive part of the mind.
She had read about um Aristotleand played um um Aristotle and
there's another philosopher fromway back then, and she had read
(06:16):
something about volition, thatevery human has this volition.
And she's like, What is thisvolition?
So she started doing a lot ofresearch into that, and that's
where conation came from.
And interestingly enough, herfather was the founder of the
Wonderlich cognitive assessment.
Okay, and she felt like therewas another intelligence that
(06:39):
people operated under, and hetold her to go find it.
So she did, and it's thisconation that's been written
about for over 400 years, butit's not well known because
people lean more into thatcognitive piece, they all think
that this intelligence is thehighest form of intelligence
that we have, and it reallyisn't.
(07:00):
Our mind is the three partsworking together as one.
And so when a leader understandstheir own cognitive design, how
they were designed to functionwhen, again, when solving
problems, making decisions, andtaking action, they stop
following advice not meant forthem.
(07:22):
That's what leads to burnout.
Like when they're following thisadvice that is not meant for how
their brain actually operates.
Because when we look at mentalenergy in conation, that mental
energy is finite.
And when you're operatingoutside of that mental energy,
it burns a lot faster.
So when you can look at fuel, ifyou had um like little kindling
(07:47):
sticks when you're trying tobuild a fire, you need the
kindling to start.
But once the fire roars, thatkindling burns up really
quickly, and you need likewooden blocks to start, you
know, keeping that fire going.
You need solid wood to keep thatfire going.
Now, if you look at yourconitive mind, if you're
operating outside of that, it'slike kindling, it burns up
(08:11):
quickly.
But if if you're operating init, it's like that solid wood
that takes a long time to burn,but it keeps the fuel going.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Okay.
Interesting.
How do you how do you measureit?
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Like how is it measured and there's an
assessment?
So there's a six, uh, a 36question assessment that you
take.
And um, when you once you takethe assessment, you get a result
in those four different actionmodes that we said we measure.
So it's your your need for umhow you gather and share
(08:42):
information, we call thatfact-finding, your how you see
patterns and processes andsystems, that is follow-through.
It's how you look at um at risk,uncertainty, and change, and
that's your quick start.
And implementation is your 3Dspace.
(09:04):
How do you interact with your 3Dspace and tangible objects like
tangible things?
So those are the four thingsthat we measure, and it's on a
continuum from one to ten inthree separate zones.
So we we give you a full uhpicture of what your strengths
are in those different areas andhow to operate best in those
(09:26):
strengths to get the work thatyou need to get done done.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Very cool.
Does this ever change, or is itonce it's set, it's set?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Once it's set, it's set.
It they've done over the last 50years test, retest, and they
this is one of the mostvalidated stable assessments
that you can take.
Uh, it if you get a wrongresult, like if you take it and
it's it's completely different,sometimes people take it in the
(10:00):
let's say they take it thinking,oh, what do I do every day?
Or what or how am I supposed todo this?
And so they take it from thatperspective and not how am how
would I do it?
Because I like to tell people,if you were the rule of the
universe and you can do it anyway you want, if you were free
to do it however you do it, howwould you answer these
(10:23):
questions?
So that's the perspective wehave to come from, and that
unlocks that cognitive part.
But if you answer it as howyou're supposed to do it, then
you'll get a completelydifferent result.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Awesome.
That's really interesting.
Okay, so I know we have our livelisteners with us today.
Thank you for your patience aswe had a bit of a start.
But also, I want to remind you,you can ask questions in the
chat because all of this isreally fascinating.
And obviously, I have my list ofquestions for Alicia, but I'm
sure you have your questions aswell.
These are the kinds of thingsour members thrive on.
We love learning, we lovelearning about ourselves,
(10:55):
understanding how our minds workand everything.
So I can only imagine there'llbe a lot of chatter after this
episode where our members aretrying to get this assessment,
understand it, check it out.
Um, let's talk about it in thecontext of burnout.
Earlier, you were saying, likewhen you're misaligned, you
know, um it does tend to createmore of a toll.
(11:15):
Like your kindling example wasgreat.
It burns up fast.
And we know that there'sbasically this whole epidemic of
burnout happening all around us.
How does cognitive misalignmentcontribute to burnout?
And why is this custle culturethat we're all live being
forced, and sometimes it feelslike to live in contribute?
How does it make it worse?
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
So Colby did some brain scans.
So this is this is the evidenceof how this is operating.
And they they showed someoneworking within their natural
strengths, and then the brainscan showed someone working
against that natural, the um,that their natural strength.
(11:58):
And what it showed was when theywere rested after working within
their natural strengths, justthe prefrontal cortex was lit
up, which is where thatconitive, it's in that executive
functioning with your cognitive.
SPEAKER_03 (12:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
When they were working against their natural
strengths, more than half thebrain was lit up.
And this is after resting.
So if you live day after dayafter day, where more than half
your brain is experiencing thatlevel of stress, and you might
not be feeling stressed.
Remember, we talked aboutcognitive, affective, and
(12:32):
cognitive.
So you might not be feelingstress doing it because a lot of
us feel, oh, I can do that, Ican do that.
We have this can do attitude.
I can do that.
I was working with a client andI was uh doing a readback with
her and her boss, and she shekept saying, Yes, but I can do
it, I can do it.
And uh and I said to her, Yes,but should you be doing it?
(12:55):
Yeah, that's the question weneed to ask ourselves.
Yes, you can.
We can do a lot of things, butshould we?
And he's like, Yeah, we want tooptimize what you're doing and
not burn you out at the end ofthe day for you not to feel
exhausted at the end of the day.
Um, so when we look at that dataand we look at those brain
scans, we know it's impactingthe brain.
(13:17):
And I'm gonna ask a questionHave you ever spent your day
doing something and at the endof the day, you just feel
totally wiped?
Like you ran a marathon.
It's like, why am I soexhausted?
I can't even make a decisionabout dinner.
I don't, I don't even know upfrom down, left from right.
And then there are some days youcome home and you're just like
(13:37):
energized.
It's just like, man, I had thebest day.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
If you look back at what you actually did that day,
you can track back to, huh?
I was probably doing stuff thatwas against how my conitive
design is.
And I call that swimming againsta rip current.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Right?
You're swimming against a ripcurrent and you're you're tiring
yourself out, but you're notreally getting anywhere.
That happens for me when I haveto do a lot of deep research.
My brain gets exhausted.
And I never understood thatuntil I took this assessment.
And now I understand what drainsme and what energizes me.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
I love it.
We talk about that a lot, butit's so fascinating to think
about the science behind it,right?
Because we do like energy auditswhen we do like our goal gatters
for Together Digital.
We talk about strength finders,and to me, this is like the
science behind strength finders,right?
Focusing on your strengths.
And then I even think about likethe big leap where they talk
about in the book, they talkabout your um your zone of
(14:42):
genius versus your zone ofcompetence, right?
This is your you being in yourstuck in your zone of competence
and just doing what you knowyou're effective at doing, but
it's it's depleting you, it istotally burning you out.
Yes.
So yeah, it's like that's tryingto find all of it.
That's so fun.
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna just I love strengthfinding.
I love strengthfinder.
Yeah, I'm gonna go down such arabbit hole after this, Alicia.
(15:03):
Oh my gosh.
Because I love all this stuff,like Enneagram, Myers.
Yes, me too.
Great ways to learn tounderstand how we think as
individuals and how othersthink.
SPEAKER_02 (15:13):
Correct.
Because we self-awareness is thegreatest leadership tool that
you can have.
The more you know aboutyourself, the more you can
operate in audacious confidence,as we talked about earlier.
The more you can operate inconfidence.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Absolutely.
That's great advice.
And on that note, like we have alot of members who are listening
who often lead teams that youknow that are leading teams, but
also managing up, maybe twoexecutives.
How can someone use theircognitive strikes to navigate
those demands without burningout?
SPEAKER_02 (15:45):
That is incredible in that question because there
are these misnomers aboutcertain strengths belong in
certain roles, right?
Because I get this question,this particular question a lot
about well, I especially fromentrepreneurs, well, I'm not a
blank, so how can I besuccessful in that?
(16:08):
It doesn't matter the strengththat you have, it's how you
utilize that strength in therole.
You need to understand howyou're utilizing those
strengths.
So a role that is designed sothat you can design the role
around you instead of trying tofit yourself into a role.
So if the role requires a lotof, like if I wanted to go into
(16:32):
a role and it required a lot offact-finding, which I probably
wouldn't go into that roleanyway, because I would know
that it would require a lot offact-finding, I would make sure
the people, the team around methat I have surrounding me have
that strength, have that deepfact-finding strength.
My strength is in thesimplifying.
(16:55):
The way that I gather and shareinformation is give me the
bullet points, give me the highlevel.
If I need more, I'll ask formore.
SPEAKER_03 (17:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Someone else might need a lot more detail than I
do.
So if I know I was going into arole that required getting a lot
of that detail, I will surroundmyself with people that will get
that detail.
And I can stay in my zone ofgenius, in the simplifying.
That's what that's that's theadvice I would give.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
I love that.
And I like that kind of lookingat it as like breaking out of
the mold in the lanes of like,this is your role, this is your
title, these, this, this shouldbe the strength that you
leverage.
It's more in like howunderstanding the role and how
you leverage those strengths forit specifically, but it doesn't
mean it's assigned to one or theother.
Right.
Um, which is fantastic.
I love that.
Let's talk a little bit tooabout the predictive index
(17:44):
consulting that you do, a littlebit about what PI is and maybe
how that and the Kobe assessmentkind of complement each other.
Um, and and how do you use themto build stronger teams?
SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
Yes.
Predictive index measures itmeasures needs, drives, and
behaviors.
And it's great for theworkplace.
So when I look at Colby, Colbyis overall life.
Like how do you operate in yourlife overall?
(18:17):
PI is more focused and centeredin the work environment.
PI measures for things as well.
PI measures someone's dry need,sorry, someone's need for uh
extroversion, their need fordominance, their need for
stability, their need for for umdetails as well, but in a
(18:41):
different way.
And so when we pair them, we'relooking at now the affective
behavior of someone and theircognitive needs as well.
So I like using them together,but if I was using them
separately, they can stand ontheir own as well.
So if we're looking at how do webuild a really great culture, I
(19:04):
would use PI to help see howpeople interact with each other,
who's collaborative, who'sdominant, who needs sociability,
who needs to be more um work ontheir own, who needs to drive
fast and and like push thingsahead while someone else needs
stability, who needs morestructure, who needs more
(19:26):
flexibility.
So this is again working withinthe work environment, that's
where PI shines really well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
That's fantastic.
And do you often find that thebest teams are like a balance or
a quantity of these certainthings, or is it like a lot of
the same?
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
No, depending on what it is that you need.
For instance, if I had a salesteam and I needed them all to be
like this particular conitivestrength, I would be cloning
everybody into this strength.
If I needed a uh if I'm workingon like a leadership team where
(20:06):
we need diversity in strength,where we can hit all 12 of those
strength points, then I'mlooking for a team that has all
those different strengths fordiversity so that we're not all
group thinking, we're not all ummoving in the same direction and
nobody is is pushing against howwe're moving.
(20:27):
So it depends on the situationhow I would structure that team.
Because a sales team operatesindividually, yeah, we don't
necessarily always operatetogether.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Right.
So it doesn't depend on time,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Yeah, and sometimes they're competing against each
other.
So it just depends on what itis, the type of team that you
have and what you need to thrivein that team.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Very cool.
I have a bonus question.
Like, how apropos are likeleadership teams to taking these
tests, learning them aboutthemselves, like how do teams
receive this informationnormally?
Like, I'm kind of curious.
Do you have any like storiesabout what the process has
looked like and felt like forteams?
SPEAKER_02 (21:08):
Yes, actually, I'm going through it right now.
Some teams were um, and I liketo say assessment, not test,
because when people hear test,some people freeze up because
they think it's right or wrong.
And I if I if I get it wrong,and and they they tend to come
from it from a place of anxietyif they don't want a good test
taker.
It's an assessment, right?
(21:28):
It's a tool.
And some people don't have aproblem with taking it, they'll
take because we have several,especially in the Colby, we have
the A, B, and C, which measuresdifferent things.
So we're asking them to takethese 36 questions over and over
again.
Some people absolutely hate itand resist it and they don't
want to do it.
Yeah, and some people embraceit.
(21:51):
And those that hate it don'twant to do it.
When they get the result and westart going over it, they are
loving it.
It they're like, oh my gosh, youknow, I had this, um, and I felt
either they felt um bad about acertain strength that they have
because it was misrepresented ormismiscommunicated, or they they
(22:14):
were told they weren't supposedto be that way, and so now we've
given them the freedom toembrace it and use it as a
strength instead of what it wasa perceived weakness, right?
And so um there's a lot ofbreakthroughs that happen when
when we start unpacking thiswith people and they're
realizing the power of it andhow they can operate and be and
(22:38):
be free to be who they are andnot feel uh this obligation to
be something or someone else.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's so true, and that's really what a lot of
people are facing right now,right?
Is a lot of burnout,misalignment, not feeling like
they're in the right role, doingthe right things, but a lot of
times it is just a shiftedmindset and understanding them
and their motivations a littlebit more clearly that then make
them a better team player allaround.
And you know, I've definitelyheard and seen similar stories
with you know implementations ofother assessments, but I can
(23:08):
only imagine this one with theadditional neuroscience behind
it, how much more impactful thatprobably is.
And again, as we were saying, somany of us who are listening
right now, and you and myselfincluded, very much you know,
assessment junkies.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
We look at folks, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
Yeah, and I do believe that self-awareness is
what leads to confidence, right?
Because when you know yourself,you know yourself and you don't
have to pretend, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
Yes, and I'll also say with PI, the beauty in PI,
and I love using it for hiring,both tools are really good for
hiring, they're they're amazingfor hiring.
PI, it's two questions, take youfive minutes to do it, and I
love using that in the hiringprocess because again, you're
not asking your candidates tofill out a 36 question survey,
(23:56):
they're answering two questions,and the science behind that is
even is so remarkable as well,how accurate that is in those
two questions that you ask.
So that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
I love it.
Well, so with that self-knowingcomes confidence, right?
Like, so you talk a lot aboutaudacious confidence.
Obviously, that phrase carries alot of weight.
What does it actually mean toyou?
And how is it different fromthis whole kind of fake it till
you make it mentality thathonestly a lot of businesses and
professionals try to carry?
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
Yes.
So audacious confidence, it isthat self-assurance that that
that moving before doing,knowing, moving before knowing.
It's about becoming.
Say, I am not here yet, but I ambecoming this, and I'm going to
(24:50):
move into that space because Iknow that I know who I am.
And even though I'm not thereyet, I know who I am and I will
get there.
So it's in that becoming umplace.
Fake it till you make it is moreof uh, I'm gonna trick myself
into feeling that into doingthis because I don't really
(25:11):
believe that I am.
So there's a whole different ummindset of belief about
audacious confidence versus thefake it till you make it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
I love it.
It's a different kind ofself-talk, right?
Yeah, okay, I'm not perfect, I'mnot there yet, but I am making
the strides, I am making thesteps.
And so it's like, you know, youdo TEDx speaking, it's like the
first time you step on stage.
Yeah, no, it's gonna be scarythe first time because you've
never done it before, but youare on that stage and it's going
to get easier every time you doit.
And so instead of saying I'mjust gonna get up there and fake
(25:45):
it, you're not faking it.
I love that.
You are actually doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
You're doing it and becoming it, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
I love that mentality.
I think that's such a goodmindset shift.
So, friends, listeners, I hopeyou wrote that one down.
That was a good one.
On the note of your TEDx talks,you center around overcoming
body shame and advocating foryour own um cancer treatment
personally.
How did that deeply personalexperience, and I love that you
got vulnerable and shared that,shape your approach to
(26:11):
leadership and how to helpothers step into their power?
Because sometimes the mostpainful points in our life are
become the power we have to giveto others.
So, what was that like?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Well, first of all, uh I was not expecting to have
to uh talk about my breasts onthe stage.
And you know I was like, woo,let's go, let's go.
So um the the the journeyitself, again, stepping into
(26:41):
audacious confidence.
If I had not done the work thatI did to building myself up,
when I was diagnosed, I wouldhave had a completely different
experience because I would havejust done whatever the doctors
told me to do.
(27:01):
Um, I was very much a peoplepleaser, very much um someone
that didn't have a lot ofself-confidence and really hid
from my from the world.
I hid myself and going throughthe transformation that I did,
believing in my own confidence,doing some of these assessments,
knowing who I am, that whenfaced with a doctor telling me
(27:28):
that the mastectomy is the onlyroute for me to go, and this is
where my gut, you talked aboutgut, but beyond my gut, my
faith, my belief, you know, Ihave a strong faith in God, I
have a strong belief, I listenedto that voice, and that voice
(27:48):
connected to my inner voice, andsaid no.
And I had the courage to stepforward and say, No, I think
there's another way.
There is another way, and andadvocated for myself to find
that other way.
And I'm not saying that this iswhat everyone needs to do.
(28:11):
Right, the stage that my cancerwas in, the type of cancer that
I had, gave me the confidence tomake that decision.
Some people might be in adifferent stage with a different
type of cancer that doesn'tafford them the luxury of making
the kinds of decisions I made.
So I'm not giving anyone medicaladvice.
(28:32):
I am telling you though, if youfeel something inside, if that
still small voice inside islike, uh, I'm not sure, push.
Yeah, ask questions.
Don't just do everything theytell you to do, because
remember, this is medicalpractice, they're still
practicing, they're stillfinding out, they're still
researching, and so you can askyou, you can ask questions.
(28:56):
This is your body, this is youryour life, and you can ask
questions.
And so, in when that if I lookat that through the lens of
leadership, it's the same thing.
Ask questions, be curious, pushback.
Yeah, you know, though those arethe things that we have it
(29:18):
within our control.
And the worst thing someonecould tell you is no, exactly.
So why not?
Yeah.
So I chose the route that thatfelt most aligned to what I
wanted the outcome to be and notwhat the doctors what they
(29:38):
wanted their outcome to be.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
That is amazing, and and good for you.
I think you know that could be aone with our podcast recording,
is just women advocating forthemselves within healthcare.
It's such a uphill battle with alimited amount of research we
have on women's bodies andunderstanding women's bodies in
general in medicine.
So you really do have to, and Ithink you're right, that knowing
I'm I'm definitely starting tolearn over the last maybe a few
(30:03):
months, even how much our oursubconscious and our body know
before our conscious mind does.
Yeah.
And learning about things likeneuroception and all these
different things that I'm it'sit's blowing my mind to know.
And so it's making me definitelyslow down and be more
intentional about listening,like you said, to that inner
voice, albeit yourself, albeitGod, whatever.
(30:24):
Like, I think that's somethingthat we as women um we need to
start to.
Ignore it.
We do.
We've been taught to ignore it,and we're giving our time, our
energy, our money, our health,even our lives in some
instances, right?
Because we just are gonna belike, I'll just go with whatever
the doctor says and not trustwhat my body is telling me.
Um, and like you said, notnecessarily medical advice.
(30:46):
Obviously, do your research,listen to your experts, but also
like you have choice, you haveagency, right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:53):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
You do love it.
I love it.
Well, good on you for getting upand talking, getting up on stage
and talking about rest.
It's all good.
It's all good, I mean, it's allgood.
It's a part of life.
We gotta tell you.
It is.
SPEAKER_02 (31:07):
And I, you know, we you talked about faking it till
you make it earlier.
It's um, I realized that throughthis work of audacious
confidence, that who I am is notbroken as I used to believe it
was, and that my voice matters,my experiences matter.
(31:29):
And if I don't step up and saysomething or do something for
the next woman, then her voiceis shut down too.
So um it's our responsibility,each and every one of us have a
responsibility to share ourstories, to share ourselves, to
step out and talk to each otherabout our experiences.
(31:53):
Our mothers, well, I'm from thegeneration, I'm Gen X.
Our mothers didn't talk to us.
They didn't talk to us and shareanything with us, right?
So it's our responsibility.
I have two daughters and a son,and my two girls, I make sure to
talk to them about doing theirbreast self-exams.
(32:13):
Don't wait for the doctor tillyou go there.
Do it for yourself.
Understand what it feels like sothat when something doesn't feel
right, you know.
Yeah, right.
So yeah, we have to be our bestadvocates.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
100%.
And I think modeling that foryour kids is tremendous.
It's like it's such an amazinggift.
And I agree with you that I havekids that are nine and twelve,
so they're a little bit younger.
But I mean, honestly, like it wetry to make all this stuff such
a big deal, but it is a part oflike who we are as humans, as
lives.
We have bodies, things happen.
It's like, and if you try totreat it any other way, it's
like it doesn't need to be taboobecause it's points, it likely
(32:47):
happen to, you know, one out ofthree of us or one out of five
of us, or half of us, you know,what you know, depending on
whatever that is.
And so the more we can open upthat door and be open and honest
about it and share thatexperience, you know, the better
our kids can advocate forthemselves as well.
So I love that you're doing thatfor them.
And it's like, you know, ifyou're struggling as a woman to
find a reason to do it foryourself, there you go.
Do it for those around you.
(33:08):
Yeah, but ultimately yourself.
All right.
Um, so I love this nextquestion.
Um, because I feel like a lot ofus still work in like very high,
like fast-paced digitalmarketing, advertising agencies,
companies, startups, like wewere talking about the hustle
culture earlier.
And it feels like even withinjust life right now, because
(33:28):
life's been life in for a lot ofus, I feel like, and it feels
like we're just constantly inreaction mode instead of
leading.
Where does she start to find herflow?
Will some of these assessmentsand understandings help her and
in what fashion?
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Absolutely.
You have to understand whatenergizes you, what drains you,
what things interest you, andwhat things you're not
interested in.
And get put the resources aroundyou to support you.
So by doing some of theseassessments, you absolutely will
(34:04):
understand how your brainfunctions, how it operates, how
you feel about things.
Um, motivation, desires, andmotivations are the strongest,
are the strongest um drivers forus.
If we're not motivated, if we'renot, if we don't desire to do
something, we're just not goingto be into it.
(34:25):
We're like a dry piece ofcardboard.
So lean into the things that youdesire, the things that you're
motivated, understand how yourbrain operates, because
sometimes our motivation drivesus down the wrong path.
We'll be all motivated, we'lljump in and then realize I don't
have the energy to completethis.
So make sure that you put theright resources around you so
(34:46):
that you can carry things to thefinish line.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
I love it.
I think that's um another commonphrase we throw around here is
like we end up shoulding allover ourselves.
Like, I should do this, I shoulddo that.
Like, this is definitely one ofthose ways to get out of
shoulding yourself.
Correct.
Correct.
Absolutely.
I love it.
I love it.
And I would also say, as someonewho's very high functioning,
overachieving as well, it'slike, but does this need to be
(35:12):
the thing that I chase and thatI do?
Is it an alignment?
Am I really gonna get to the topof the summit and be all like
happy?
This is my moment, this is whereI was meant to be, or am I gonna
be like, eh, okay, next, youknow?
Yeah.
Why did I work so hard for that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Yeah, we have something called a commitment
clarifier that really looks atall three parts of your mind and
and lets you know it's it's kindof just a grid that tells you
the things that you want to doand what aligns to it and
whether or not this is apriority for me to do now and
how can I get support around it.
(35:46):
So it just sometimes when youput things out on paper and you
look at it, you can see, oh, Ireally shouldn't be doing this.
Because it's so when you re whenyou um complete that commitment
clarifier, you can see what youreally where your your uh
commitment should lie and thethings that you need to
(36:08):
outsource.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Yeah.
I love it.
All right.
So my last question before we gointo the power round, and
listeners, if you have anyquestions, drop them into the
chat.
What does leading look like frominstinct for pro in practice for
someone who spent years kind ofjust being rewarded for the
grind?
Because it feels like right nowthat's sometimes all we get the
acknowledgement for.
How do you rewire that pattern?
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
When you if you go ahead and you take the Colby
assessment and you recognizewhere you've been grinding and
hustling outside of your naturalinstinct and those natural
strengths, you can start slowlyshifting by understanding, you
know what?
Yes, when I do that, I do gettired.
(36:52):
I am exhausted, I am a littlechippy, I do get a little bit
more um, you know, frayed onedge.
So maybe I pull back a littlebit on that until I can find
support to take that overcompletely.
So you start to realign by thefirst question you asked me is
(37:12):
about how your body feels bygoing back into your own history
and seeing, huh?
Yeah, when I when I do this,this is what happens, and now I
see why.
This result here shows me whythis happens, and then you can
start making those changesyourself because it becomes you
can build awareness around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
Yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
I'm so excited for all of thisstuff.
All right, for anyone who'slistening and is learning out as
hard as I am and want to getstarted on these things, where
do they begin and how do theyfind and connect with you?
SPEAKER_02 (37:43):
So they can go to alysia360.com.
That's my first name, 360, andthey'll find all my contact info
there.
They can WhatsApp me, they canemail me, they can connect with
me on all social media.
It's right there on that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
Fantastic.
I'm sure you'll be having somefolks following up with you.
All right, on to the power roundthen.
What is one thing highperformers should stop doing
immediately?
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
Oh, the grind.
They should stop shitting allover themselves.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:17):
Uh-huh.
Yep.
Just halt.
Slow it down.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
Slow it down and learn a little bit more about
how your brain is wired tooperate.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
I love it.
All right.
Kobe, PI or gut instinct, whichone do you check in first thing
in the morning?
SPEAKER_02 (38:30):
I check in with my spirit first thing in the
morning.
Like that's the first thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
Love it.
I like that.
Great answer.
Finish this sentence.
Audacious confidence is notabout being fearless.
SPEAKER_02 (38:42):
It's about being committed to your own growth and
committed to yourself, likebeing yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (38:51):
I love it.
It always throws me off whenpeople are like, our fearless
leader.
I get called that a lot.
And I do appreciate it, but Ialways tell them, I'm like,
guys, I'm not fearless.
Like I'm always afraid.
I just do it anyways.
You're committed to becomingthat.
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Yes.
Right.
Exactly.
You're committed to becomingmore than you are today.
And that that's audaciousconfidence.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
I love it.
I love it.
All right.
My last one I've got for you iswhat is the boldest thing that
you've done that your instinctstold you was exactly right?
SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
There's so many.
Uh, becoming an entrepreneur wasone.
And refusing certain medicaltreatments, I think that was the
boldest thing I ever did,telling my doctor no and finding
a new doctor.
unknown (39:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
Yes.
Oh my gosh, we've we've preachedthat before here about firing
doctors when you need to.
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Yeah.
I think that's probably theboldest thing I did since we
talked about that.
SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Well, Alicia, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
This is exactly the kind ofclarity and honesty that our
community needs.
It's a good reminder frominstinct isn't a luxury, and
that strategy is something toknow.
Our members will be definitelysitting with that long after
today.
Um, if today's conversationresonated with you listeners,
this is what Together Digital isall about.
(40:04):
It's bringing your voices,frameworks that actually help
you lead better, work smarter,and show up as your whole self.
Um, if you're not a member yet,we'd love to have you join us
together in digital.com.
We have loads of professionaldevelopment opportunities, peer
groups, which are actuallyhappening at the first of May.
So be sure to check that out.
And a community of women who arejust genuinely here for each
other to lift you up, cheer youon through all of the ups and
(40:27):
downs of work, life, and allthings digital.
So um, as always, it waswonderful to have you here.
Alicia, thank you so much forthis.
It was so fun.
Like I said, this is one morething to go for me to go nerd
out on a hard day.
Um, so I know what I'm doing forlunch.
Thank you.
Talk again soon.
Okay, take care.
Thank you so much.
See you all next time.
(40:48):
Until then, keep asking, keepgiving, and keep growing.
SPEAKER_03 (41:00):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly power
lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who work indigital and choose to share
their knowledge, power, andconnections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:31):
And today's guest is someone whohas made it her mission to help
leaders stop grinding and startleading from a place of genuine
strength.
Alicia Corey is the founder andCEO of Audacious Concepts Inc.,
a boutique leadership firm thathelps organize organizations
boost performance by aligningaction with instinct.
A Kobe certified consultant,productive index consultant, and
(00:54):
TEDx speaker, Alicia works withleaders across industries to
reduce stress, build resilience,and lead with clarity through
the lens of cognitive strengths.
She's also the founder of RedCarpet CEO, where she channels
her passion for digital mediaand content creation.
And today she is here to talkabout how we can ditch the
(01:15):
hustle mentality, avoid burnout,and lead with what she calls
audacious confidence.
Welcome to the Power Lounge,Alicia.
So glad to have you here.
SPEAKER_00 (01:25):
Yay, we've made it.
I know it's been a journey toget here.
So we're here.
It has been.
Yeah, some technicaldifficulties and life things and
everything.
Scheduling and all the things,but that's life.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
That is life.
And I'm so, so glad you're here.
I mean, it's going to tie innicely with the conversation
today, right?
Um, you built audacious conceptsaround the idea of aligning
action with instinct.
And before we go into yourframeworks and your
methodologies, I would love foryou to share a moment of your
experience that made you realizethat most re most leaders are
(02:00):
operating actually out ofalignment.
SPEAKER_02 (02:03):
That's a great question to start off with
because it there was no specificmoment that I can pinpoint,
except in conversations withpeople, when actions don't meet
expectations or results.
That's misalignment.
(02:24):
You know, when you're you're thewords you're saying or the
things that you're trying to dodon't meet the results that
you're getting, somewhere alongthe line there's misalignment.
SPEAKER_01 (02:32):
What does that actually feel like in your body?
I'm kind of curious becauseyou're talking about instinct
and like gut feeling.
So I'm just kind of curious.
What does that feel like?
And and what are those feelingsthat we often tend to ignore?
SPEAKER_02 (02:44):
Well, I'm gonna just clarify something a second.
The instinct that we arereferring to when I'm with the
framework and the work that wedo, it's not a gut instinct.
It's actually a performanceinstinct.
It's how your brain was wired tomake decisions, problem solve,
(03:05):
and act when you're not givenspecific directions.
So it's your natural, innatewiring that is like pre
pre-wired into your brain atbirth of how you how you solve
problems.
That's the instinct we'retalking about, not necessarily a
like a um lizard brain instinct,right?
(03:29):
When danger comes, we run.
It's not that kind of instinct,not that kind of gut.
It's more of an instinct, it's adefault wire.
SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Well, let's let's dig into that more because my
next question is it's you talk alot about the third part of the
mind, connotation, which most ofus haven't really heard of or
talked about.
So could you break that down?
Um, what connotation is and whyit is the missing piece that so
many aren't talking about?
SPEAKER_02 (03:55):
Yeah, so conation is the conitive part of the mind.
So when you look at how the mindoperates, there are three main
functions for decision-making,problem solving.
Um, it's the cognitive, whicheverybody understands that part.
It's your thinking mind.
(04:15):
And when we think, when the waywe define the thinking mind, it
is your IQ, your skills, yourreasoning abilities, your
knowledge experience, and youreducation.
That's the cognitive piece.
And then we have the affectivepiece, which is around emotional
intelligence.
That's the feeling mind.
So again, that goes back to thatgut that you were talking about
(04:37):
before.
That's the feeling mind.
That is where your personality,your preferences, your desires,
motivations, uh, and andemotions and your values, that's
where that part of the and andthat's in the limbic system of
the brain.
That's that emotional part ofyour of the mind.
And then that conitive piece isreally that instinct, that
(05:00):
drive, that necessity, yourmental energy.
It's your innate force fortaking action and doing things.
And we measure it in fourdifferent ways, which I can get
to get into um later on.
But there are four specificactions that we're measuring.
So you can look at it this way: you can think about a problem, (05:17):
undefined
you can feel about a problem.
This is how you're actuallygoing to do the solution for the
problem.
That's conation.
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Very interesting.
And I kept saying connotation,but conation, that's awesome.
I love that.
That's fascinating.
So the Colby assessment, that'scentral to the work that you do
as well.
Yeah.
How does understanding someone'sKobe results um actually change
what they do in the way theylead on a day-to-day basis?
And honestly, to you, like forthose who aren't familiar with
(05:50):
it, maybe a little bit ofcontext about that first.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Absolutely.
So Colby, Kathy Colby, soColby's after her name, Kathy
Colby, about 50 years agostarted doing some research in
this conitive part of the mind.
She had read about um Aristotleand played um um Aristotle and
there's another philosopher fromway back then, and she had read
(06:16):
something about volition, thatevery human has this volition.
And she's like, What is thisvolition?
So she started doing a lot ofresearch into that, and that's
where conation came from.
And interestingly enough, herfather was the founder of the
Wonderlich cognitive assessment.
Okay, and she felt like therewas another intelligence that
(06:39):
people operated under, and hetold her to go find it.
So she did, and it's thisconation that's been written
about for over 400 years, butit's not well known because
people lean more into thatcognitive piece, they all think
that this intelligence is thehighest form of intelligence
that we have, and it reallyisn't.
(07:00):
Our mind is the three partsworking together as one.
And so when a leader understandstheir own cognitive design, how
they were designed to functionwhen, again, when solving
problems, making decisions, andtaking action, they stop
following advice not meant forthem.
(07:22):
That's what leads to burnout.
Like when they're following thisadvice that is not meant for how
their brain actually operates.
Because when we look at mentalenergy in conation, that mental
energy is finite.
And when you're operatingoutside of that mental energy,
it burns a lot faster.
So when you can look at fuel, ifyou had um like little kindling
(07:47):
sticks when you're trying tobuild a fire, you need the
kindling to start.
But once the fire roars, thatkindling burns up really
quickly, and you need likewooden blocks to start, you
know, keeping that fire going.
You need solid wood to keep thatfire going.
Now, if you look at yourconitive mind, if you're
operating outside of that, it'slike kindling, it burns up
(08:11):
quickly.
But if if you're operating init, it's like that solid wood
that takes a long time to burn,but it keeps the fuel going.
SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
Okay.
Interesting.
How do you how do you measureit?
SPEAKER_02 (08:22):
Like how is it measured and there's an
assessment?
So there's a six, uh, a 36question assessment that you
take.
And um, when you once you takethe assessment, you get a result
in those four different actionmodes that we said we measure.
So it's your your need for umhow you gather and share
(08:42):
information, we call thatfact-finding, your how you see
patterns and processes andsystems, that is follow-through.
It's how you look at um at risk,uncertainty, and change, and
that's your quick start.
And implementation is your 3Dspace.
(09:04):
How do you interact with your 3Dspace and tangible objects like
tangible things?
So those are the four thingsthat we measure, and it's on a
continuum from one to ten inthree separate zones.
So we we give you a full uhpicture of what your strengths
are in those different areas andhow to operate best in those
(09:26):
strengths to get the work thatyou need to get done done.
SPEAKER_01 (09:30):
Very cool.
Does this ever change, or is itonce it's set, it's set?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Once it's set, it's set.
It they've done over the last 50years test, retest, and they
this is one of the mostvalidated stable assessments
that you can take.
Uh, it if you get a wrongresult, like if you take it and
it's it's completely different,sometimes people take it in the
(10:00):
let's say they take it thinking,oh, what do I do every day?
Or what or how am I supposed todo this?
And so they take it from thatperspective and not how am how
would I do it?
Because I like to tell people,if you were the rule of the
universe and you can do it anyway you want, if you were free
to do it however you do it, howwould you answer these
(10:23):
questions?
So that's the perspective wehave to come from, and that
unlocks that cognitive part.
But if you answer it as howyou're supposed to do it, then
you'll get a completelydifferent result.
SPEAKER_01 (10:34):
Awesome.
That's really interesting.
Okay, so I know we have our livelisteners with us today.
Thank you for your patience aswe had a bit of a start.
But also, I want to remind you,you can ask questions in the
chat because all of this isreally fascinating.
And obviously, I have my list ofquestions for Alicia, but I'm
sure you have your questions aswell.
These are the kinds of thingsour members thrive on.
We love learning, we lovelearning about ourselves,
(10:55):
understanding how our minds workand everything.
So I can only imagine there'llbe a lot of chatter after this
episode where our members aretrying to get this assessment,
understand it, check it out.
Um, let's talk about it in thecontext of burnout.
Earlier, you were saying, likewhen you're misaligned, you
know, um it does tend to createmore of a toll.
(11:15):
Like your kindling example wasgreat.
It burns up fast.
And we know that there'sbasically this whole epidemic of
burnout happening all around us.
How does cognitive misalignmentcontribute to burnout?
And why is this custle culturethat we're all live being
forced, and sometimes it feelslike to live in contribute?
How does it make it worse?
SPEAKER_02 (11:37):
So Colby did some brain scans.
So this is this is the evidenceof how this is operating.
And they they showed someoneworking within their natural
strengths, and then the brainscan showed someone working
against that natural, the um,that their natural strength.
(11:58):
And what it showed was when theywere rested after working within
their natural strengths, justthe prefrontal cortex was lit
up, which is where thatconitive, it's in that executive
functioning with your cognitive.
SPEAKER_03 (12:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:12):
When they were working against their natural
strengths, more than half thebrain was lit up.
And this is after resting.
So if you live day after dayafter day, where more than half
your brain is experiencing thatlevel of stress, and you might
not be feeling stressed.
Remember, we talked aboutcognitive, affective, and
(12:32):
cognitive.
So you might not be feelingstress doing it because a lot of
us feel, oh, I can do that, Ican do that.
We have this can do attitude.
I can do that.
I was working with a client andI was uh doing a readback with
her and her boss, and she shekept saying, Yes, but I can do
it, I can do it.
And uh and I said to her, Yes,but should you be doing it?
(12:55):
Yeah, that's the question weneed to ask ourselves.
Yes, you can.
We can do a lot of things, butshould we?
And he's like, Yeah, we want tooptimize what you're doing and
not burn you out at the end ofthe day for you not to feel
exhausted at the end of the day.
Um, so when we look at that dataand we look at those brain
scans, we know it's impactingthe brain.
(13:17):
And I'm gonna ask a questionHave you ever spent your day
doing something and at the endof the day, you just feel
totally wiped?
Like you ran a marathon.
It's like, why am I soexhausted?
I can't even make a decisionabout dinner.
I don't, I don't even know upfrom down, left from right.
And then there are some days youcome home and you're just like
(13:37):
energized.
It's just like, man, I had thebest day.
SPEAKER_03 (13:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:41):
If you look back at what you actually did that day,
you can track back to, huh?
I was probably doing stuff thatwas against how my conitive
design is.
And I call that swimming againsta rip current.
SPEAKER_00 (13:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (13:58):
Right?
You're swimming against a ripcurrent and you're you're tiring
yourself out, but you're notreally getting anywhere.
That happens for me when I haveto do a lot of deep research.
My brain gets exhausted.
And I never understood thatuntil I took this assessment.
And now I understand what drainsme and what energizes me.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
I love it.
We talk about that a lot, butit's so fascinating to think
about the science behind it,right?
Because we do like energy auditswhen we do like our goal gatters
for Together Digital.
We talk about strength finders,and to me, this is like the
science behind strength finders,right?
Focusing on your strengths.
And then I even think about likethe big leap where they talk
about in the book, they talkabout your um your zone of
(14:42):
genius versus your zone ofcompetence, right?
This is your you being in yourstuck in your zone of competence
and just doing what you knowyou're effective at doing, but
it's it's depleting you, it istotally burning you out.
Yes.
So yeah, it's like that's tryingto find all of it.
That's so fun.
Oh my gosh.
I'm gonna just I love strengthfinding.
I love strengthfinder.
Yeah, I'm gonna go down such arabbit hole after this, Alicia.
(15:03):
Oh my gosh.
Because I love all this stuff,like Enneagram, Myers.
Yes, me too.
Great ways to learn tounderstand how we think as
individuals and how othersthink.
SPEAKER_02 (15:13):
Correct.
Because we self-awareness is thegreatest leadership tool that
you can have.
The more you know aboutyourself, the more you can
operate in audacious confidence,as we talked about earlier.
The more you can operate inconfidence.
SPEAKER_01 (15:27):
Absolutely.
That's great advice.
And on that note, like we have alot of members who are listening
who often lead teams that youknow that are leading teams, but
also managing up, maybe twoexecutives.
How can someone use theircognitive strikes to navigate
those demands without burningout?
SPEAKER_02 (15:45):
That is incredible in that question because there
are these misnomers aboutcertain strengths belong in
certain roles, right?
Because I get this question,this particular question a lot
about well, I especially fromentrepreneurs, well, I'm not a
blank, so how can I besuccessful in that?
(16:08):
It doesn't matter the strengththat you have, it's how you
utilize that strength in therole.
You need to understand howyou're utilizing those
strengths.
So a role that is designed sothat you can design the role
around you instead of trying tofit yourself into a role.
So if the role requires a lotof, like if I wanted to go into
(16:32):
a role and it required a lot offact-finding, which I probably
wouldn't go into that roleanyway, because I would know
that it would require a lot offact-finding, I would make sure
the people, the team around methat I have surrounding me have
that strength, have that deepfact-finding strength.
My strength is in thesimplifying.
(16:55):
The way that I gather and shareinformation is give me the
bullet points, give me the highlevel.
If I need more, I'll ask formore.
SPEAKER_03 (17:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Someone else might need a lot more detail than I
do.
So if I know I was going into arole that required getting a lot
of that detail, I will surroundmyself with people that will get
that detail.
And I can stay in my zone ofgenius, in the simplifying.
That's what that's that's theadvice I would give.
SPEAKER_01 (17:22):
I love that.
And I like that kind of lookingat it as like breaking out of
the mold in the lanes of like,this is your role, this is your
title, these, this, this shouldbe the strength that you
leverage.
It's more in like howunderstanding the role and how
you leverage those strengths forit specifically, but it doesn't
mean it's assigned to one or theother.
Right.
Um, which is fantastic.
I love that.
Let's talk a little bit tooabout the predictive index
(17:44):
consulting that you do, a littlebit about what PI is and maybe
how that and the Kobe assessmentkind of complement each other.
Um, and and how do you use themto build stronger teams?
SPEAKER_02 (17:55):
Yes.
Predictive index measures itmeasures needs, drives, and
behaviors.
And it's great for theworkplace.
So when I look at Colby, Colbyis overall life.
Like how do you operate in yourlife overall?
(18:17):
PI is more focused and centeredin the work environment.
PI measures for things as well.
PI measures someone's dry need,sorry, someone's need for uh
extroversion, their need fordominance, their need for
stability, their need for for umdetails as well, but in a
(18:41):
different way.
And so when we pair them, we'relooking at now the affective
behavior of someone and theircognitive needs as well.
So I like using them together,but if I was using them
separately, they can stand ontheir own as well.
So if we're looking at how do webuild a really great culture, I
(19:04):
would use PI to help see howpeople interact with each other,
who's collaborative, who'sdominant, who needs sociability,
who needs to be more um work ontheir own, who needs to drive
fast and and like push thingsahead while someone else needs
stability, who needs morestructure, who needs more
(19:26):
flexibility.
So this is again working withinthe work environment, that's
where PI shines really well.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
That's fantastic.
And do you often find that thebest teams are like a balance or
a quantity of these certainthings, or is it like a lot of
the same?
SPEAKER_02 (19:44):
No, depending on what it is that you need.
For instance, if I had a salesteam and I needed them all to be
like this particular conitivestrength, I would be cloning
everybody into this strength.
If I needed a uh if I'm workingon like a leadership team where
(20:06):
we need diversity in strength,where we can hit all 12 of those
strength points, then I'mlooking for a team that has all
those different strengths fordiversity so that we're not all
group thinking, we're not all ummoving in the same direction and
nobody is is pushing against howwe're moving.
(20:27):
So it depends on the situationhow I would structure that team.
Because a sales team operatesindividually, yeah, we don't
necessarily always operatetogether.
SPEAKER_00 (20:39):
Right.
So it doesn't depend on time,yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Yeah, and sometimes they're competing against each
other.
So it just depends on what itis, the type of team that you
have and what you need to thrivein that team.
SPEAKER_01 (20:51):
Very cool.
I have a bonus question.
Like, how apropos are likeleadership teams to taking these
tests, learning them aboutthemselves, like how do teams
receive this informationnormally?
Like, I'm kind of curious.
Do you have any like storiesabout what the process has
looked like and felt like forteams?
SPEAKER_02 (21:08):
Yes, actually, I'm going through it right now.
Some teams were um, and I liketo say assessment, not test,
because when people hear test,some people freeze up because
they think it's right or wrong.
And I if I if I get it wrong,and and they they tend to come
from it from a place of anxietyif they don't want a good test
taker.
It's an assessment, right?
(21:28):
It's a tool.
And some people don't have aproblem with taking it, they'll
take because we have several,especially in the Colby, we have
the A, B, and C, which measuresdifferent things.
So we're asking them to takethese 36 questions over and over
again.
Some people absolutely hate itand resist it and they don't
want to do it.
Yeah, and some people embraceit.
(21:51):
And those that hate it don'twant to do it.
When they get the result and westart going over it, they are
loving it.
It they're like, oh my gosh, youknow, I had this, um, and I felt
either they felt um bad about acertain strength that they have
because it was misrepresented ormismiscommunicated, or they they
(22:14):
were told they weren't supposedto be that way, and so now we've
given them the freedom toembrace it and use it as a
strength instead of what it wasa perceived weakness, right?
And so um there's a lot ofbreakthroughs that happen when
when we start unpacking thiswith people and they're
realizing the power of it andhow they can operate and be and
(22:38):
be free to be who they are andnot feel uh this obligation to
be something or someone else.
SPEAKER_01 (22:46):
That's so true, and that's really what a lot of
people are facing right now,right?
Is a lot of burnout,misalignment, not feeling like
they're in the right role, doingthe right things, but a lot of
times it is just a shiftedmindset and understanding them
and their motivations a littlebit more clearly that then make
them a better team player allaround.
And you know, I've definitelyheard and seen similar stories
with you know implementations ofother assessments, but I can
(23:08):
only imagine this one with theadditional neuroscience behind
it, how much more impactful thatprobably is.
And again, as we were saying, somany of us who are listening
right now, and you and myselfincluded, very much you know,
assessment junkies.
SPEAKER_02 (23:20):
We look at folks, right?
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
Yeah, and I do believe that self-awareness is
what leads to confidence, right?
Because when you know yourself,you know yourself and you don't
have to pretend, right?
SPEAKER_02 (23:32):
Yes, and I'll also say with PI, the beauty in PI,
and I love using it for hiring,both tools are really good for
hiring, they're they're amazingfor hiring.
PI, it's two questions, take youfive minutes to do it, and I
love using that in the hiringprocess because again, you're
not asking your candidates tofill out a 36 question survey,
(23:56):
they're answering two questions,and the science behind that is
even is so remarkable as well,how accurate that is in those
two questions that you ask.
So that's fantastic.
SPEAKER_01 (24:07):
I love it.
Well, so with that self-knowingcomes confidence, right?
Like, so you talk a lot aboutaudacious confidence.
Obviously, that phrase carries alot of weight.
What does it actually mean toyou?
And how is it different fromthis whole kind of fake it till
you make it mentality thathonestly a lot of businesses and
professionals try to carry?
SPEAKER_02 (24:26):
Yes.
So audacious confidence, it isthat self-assurance that that
that moving before doing,knowing, moving before knowing.
It's about becoming.
Say, I am not here yet, but I ambecoming this, and I'm going to
(24:50):
move into that space because Iknow that I know who I am.
And even though I'm not thereyet, I know who I am and I will
get there.
So it's in that becoming umplace.
Fake it till you make it is moreof uh, I'm gonna trick myself
into feeling that into doingthis because I don't really
(25:11):
believe that I am.
So there's a whole different ummindset of belief about
audacious confidence versus thefake it till you make it.
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
I love it.
It's a different kind ofself-talk, right?
Yeah, okay, I'm not perfect, I'mnot there yet, but I am making
the strides, I am making thesteps.
And so it's like, you know, youdo TEDx speaking, it's like the
first time you step on stage.
Yeah, no, it's gonna be scarythe first time because you've
never done it before, but youare on that stage and it's going
to get easier every time you doit.
And so instead of saying I'mjust gonna get up there and fake
(25:45):
it, you're not faking it.
I love that.
You are actually doing it.
SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
You're doing it and becoming it, yes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:50):
I love that mentality.
I think that's such a goodmindset shift.
So, friends, listeners, I hopeyou wrote that one down.
That was a good one.
On the note of your TEDx talks,you center around overcoming
body shame and advocating foryour own um cancer treatment
personally.
How did that deeply personalexperience, and I love that you
got vulnerable and shared that,shape your approach to
(26:11):
leadership and how to helpothers step into their power?
Because sometimes the mostpainful points in our life are
become the power we have to giveto others.
So, what was that like?
SPEAKER_02 (26:21):
Well, first of all, uh I was not expecting to have
to uh talk about my breasts onthe stage.
And you know I was like, woo,let's go, let's go.
So um the the the journeyitself, again, stepping into
(26:41):
audacious confidence.
If I had not done the work thatI did to building myself up,
when I was diagnosed, I wouldhave had a completely different
experience because I would havejust done whatever the doctors
told me to do.
(27:01):
Um, I was very much a peoplepleaser, very much um someone
that didn't have a lot ofself-confidence and really hid
from my from the world.
I hid myself and going throughthe transformation that I did,
believing in my own confidence,doing some of these assessments,
knowing who I am, that whenfaced with a doctor telling me
(27:28):
that the mastectomy is the onlyroute for me to go, and this is
where my gut, you talked aboutgut, but beyond my gut, my
faith, my belief, you know, Ihave a strong faith in God, I
have a strong belief, I listenedto that voice, and that voice
(27:48):
connected to my inner voice, andsaid no.
And I had the courage to stepforward and say, No, I think
there's another way.
There is another way, and andadvocated for myself to find
that other way.
And I'm not saying that this iswhat everyone needs to do.
(28:11):
Right, the stage that my cancerwas in, the type of cancer that
I had, gave me the confidence tomake that decision.
Some people might be in adifferent stage with a different
type of cancer that doesn'tafford them the luxury of making
the kinds of decisions I made.
So I'm not giving anyone medicaladvice.
(28:32):
I am telling you though, if youfeel something inside, if that
still small voice inside islike, uh, I'm not sure, push.
Yeah, ask questions.
Don't just do everything theytell you to do, because
remember, this is medicalpractice, they're still
practicing, they're stillfinding out, they're still
researching, and so you can askyou, you can ask questions.
(28:56):
This is your body, this is youryour life, and you can ask
questions.
And so, in when that if I lookat that through the lens of
leadership, it's the same thing.
Ask questions, be curious, pushback.
Yeah, you know, though those arethe things that we have it
(29:18):
within our control.
And the worst thing someonecould tell you is no, exactly.
So why not?
Yeah.
So I chose the route that thatfelt most aligned to what I
wanted the outcome to be and notwhat the doctors what they
(29:38):
wanted their outcome to be.
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
That is amazing, and and good for you.
I think you know that could be aone with our podcast recording,
is just women advocating forthemselves within healthcare.
It's such a uphill battle with alimited amount of research we
have on women's bodies andunderstanding women's bodies in
general in medicine.
So you really do have to, and Ithink you're right, that knowing
I'm I'm definitely starting tolearn over the last maybe a few
(30:03):
months, even how much our oursubconscious and our body know
before our conscious mind does.
Yeah.
And learning about things likeneuroception and all these
different things that I'm it'sit's blowing my mind to know.
And so it's making me definitelyslow down and be more
intentional about listening,like you said, to that inner
voice, albeit yourself, albeitGod, whatever.
(30:24):
Like, I think that's somethingthat we as women um we need to
start to.
Ignore it.
We do.
We've been taught to ignore it,and we're giving our time, our
energy, our money, our health,even our lives in some
instances, right?
Because we just are gonna belike, I'll just go with whatever
the doctor says and not trustwhat my body is telling me.
Um, and like you said, notnecessarily medical advice.
(30:46):
Obviously, do your research,listen to your experts, but also
like you have choice, you haveagency, right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:53):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (30:56):
You do love it.
I love it.
Well, good on you for getting upand talking, getting up on stage
and talking about rest.
It's all good.
It's all good, I mean, it's allgood.
It's a part of life.
We gotta tell you.
It is.
SPEAKER_02 (31:07):
And I, you know, we you talked about faking it till
you make it earlier.
It's um, I realized that throughthis work of audacious
confidence, that who I am is notbroken as I used to believe it
was, and that my voice matters,my experiences matter.
(31:29):
And if I don't step up and saysomething or do something for
the next woman, then her voiceis shut down too.
So um it's our responsibility,each and every one of us have a
responsibility to share ourstories, to share ourselves, to
step out and talk to each otherabout our experiences.
(31:53):
Our mothers, well, I'm from thegeneration, I'm Gen X.
Our mothers didn't talk to us.
They didn't talk to us and shareanything with us, right?
So it's our responsibility.
I have two daughters and a son,and my two girls, I make sure to
talk to them about doing theirbreast self-exams.
(32:13):
Don't wait for the doctor tillyou go there.
Do it for yourself.
Understand what it feels like sothat when something doesn't feel
right, you know.
Yeah, right.
So yeah, we have to be our bestadvocates.
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
100%.
And I think modeling that foryour kids is tremendous.
It's like it's such an amazinggift.
And I agree with you that I havekids that are nine and twelve,
so they're a little bit younger.
But I mean, honestly, like it wetry to make all this stuff such
a big deal, but it is a part oflike who we are as humans, as
lives.
We have bodies, things happen.
It's like, and if you try totreat it any other way, it's
like it doesn't need to be taboobecause it's points, it likely
(32:47):
happen to, you know, one out ofthree of us or one out of five
of us, or half of us, you know,what you know, depending on
whatever that is.
And so the more we can open upthat door and be open and honest
about it and share thatexperience, you know, the better
our kids can advocate forthemselves as well.
So I love that you're doing thatfor them.
And it's like, you know, ifyou're struggling as a woman to
find a reason to do it foryourself, there you go.
Do it for those around you.
(33:08):
Yeah, but ultimately yourself.
All right.
Um, so I love this nextquestion.
Um, because I feel like a lot ofus still work in like very high,
like fast-paced digitalmarketing, advertising agencies,
companies, startups, like wewere talking about the hustle
culture earlier.
And it feels like even withinjust life right now, because
(33:28):
life's been life in for a lot ofus, I feel like, and it feels
like we're just constantly inreaction mode instead of
leading.
Where does she start to find herflow?
Will some of these assessmentsand understandings help her and
in what fashion?
SPEAKER_02 (33:44):
Absolutely.
You have to understand whatenergizes you, what drains you,
what things interest you, andwhat things you're not
interested in.
And get put the resources aroundyou to support you.
So by doing some of theseassessments, you absolutely will
(34:04):
understand how your brainfunctions, how it operates, how
you feel about things.
Um, motivation, desires, andmotivations are the strongest,
are the strongest um drivers forus.
If we're not motivated, if we'renot, if we don't desire to do
something, we're just not goingto be into it.
(34:25):
We're like a dry piece ofcardboard.
So lean into the things that youdesire, the things that you're
motivated, understand how yourbrain operates, because
sometimes our motivation drivesus down the wrong path.
We'll be all motivated, we'lljump in and then realize I don't
have the energy to completethis.
So make sure that you put theright resources around you so
(34:46):
that you can carry things to thefinish line.
SPEAKER_01 (34:49):
I love it.
I think that's um another commonphrase we throw around here is
like we end up shoulding allover ourselves.
Like, I should do this, I shoulddo that.
Like, this is definitely one ofthose ways to get out of
shoulding yourself.
Correct.
Correct.
Absolutely.
I love it.
I love it.
And I would also say, as someonewho's very high functioning,
overachieving as well, it'slike, but does this need to be
(35:12):
the thing that I chase and thatI do?
Is it an alignment?
Am I really gonna get to the topof the summit and be all like
happy?
This is my moment, this is whereI was meant to be, or am I gonna
be like, eh, okay, next, youknow?
Yeah.
Why did I work so hard for that?
SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Yeah, we have something called a commitment
clarifier that really looks atall three parts of your mind and
and lets you know it's it's kindof just a grid that tells you
the things that you want to doand what aligns to it and
whether or not this is apriority for me to do now and
how can I get support around it.
(35:46):
So it just sometimes when youput things out on paper and you
look at it, you can see, oh, Ireally shouldn't be doing this.
Because it's so when you re whenyou um complete that commitment
clarifier, you can see what youreally where your your uh
commitment should lie and thethings that you need to
(36:08):
outsource.
SPEAKER_01 (36:09):
Yeah.
I love it.
All right.
So my last question before we gointo the power round, and
listeners, if you have anyquestions, drop them into the
chat.
What does leading look like frominstinct for pro in practice for
someone who spent years kind ofjust being rewarded for the
grind?
Because it feels like right nowthat's sometimes all we get the
acknowledgement for.
How do you rewire that pattern?
SPEAKER_02 (36:31):
When you if you go ahead and you take the Colby
assessment and you recognizewhere you've been grinding and
hustling outside of your naturalinstinct and those natural
strengths, you can start slowlyshifting by understanding, you
know what?
Yes, when I do that, I do gettired.
(36:52):
I am exhausted, I am a littlechippy, I do get a little bit
more um, you know, frayed onedge.
So maybe I pull back a littlebit on that until I can find
support to take that overcompletely.
So you start to realign by thefirst question you asked me is
(37:12):
about how your body feels bygoing back into your own history
and seeing, huh?
Yeah, when I when I do this,this is what happens, and now I
see why.
This result here shows me whythis happens, and then you can
start making those changesyourself because it becomes you
can build awareness around it.
SPEAKER_01 (37:31):
Yeah.
I love it.
I love it.
I'm so excited for all of thisstuff.
All right, for anyone who'slistening and is learning out as
hard as I am and want to getstarted on these things, where
do they begin and how do theyfind and connect with you?
SPEAKER_02 (37:43):
So they can go to alysia360.com.
That's my first name, 360, andthey'll find all my contact info
there.
They can WhatsApp me, they canemail me, they can connect with
me on all social media.
It's right there on that.
SPEAKER_01 (37:57):
Fantastic.
I'm sure you'll be having somefolks following up with you.
All right, on to the power roundthen.
What is one thing highperformers should stop doing
immediately?
SPEAKER_02 (38:08):
Oh, the grind.
They should stop shitting allover themselves.
That's for sure.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:17):
Uh-huh.
Yep.
Just halt.
Slow it down.
SPEAKER_02 (38:19):
Slow it down and learn a little bit more about
how your brain is wired tooperate.
SPEAKER_01 (38:24):
I love it.
All right.
Kobe, PI or gut instinct, whichone do you check in first thing
in the morning?
SPEAKER_02 (38:30):
I check in with my spirit first thing in the
morning.
Like that's the first thing.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (38:35):
Love it.
I like that.
Great answer.
Finish this sentence.
Audacious confidence is notabout being fearless.
SPEAKER_02 (38:42):
It's about being committed to your own growth and
committed to yourself, likebeing yourself.
SPEAKER_01 (38:51):
I love it.
It always throws me off whenpeople are like, our fearless
leader.
I get called that a lot.
And I do appreciate it, but Ialways tell them, I'm like,
guys, I'm not fearless.
Like I'm always afraid.
I just do it anyways.
You're committed to becomingthat.
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Yes.
Right.
Exactly.
You're committed to becomingmore than you are today.
And that that's audaciousconfidence.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
I love it.
I love it.
All right.
My last one I've got for you iswhat is the boldest thing that
you've done that your instinctstold you was exactly right?
SPEAKER_02 (39:21):
There's so many.
Uh, becoming an entrepreneur wasone.
And refusing certain medicaltreatments, I think that was the
boldest thing I ever did,telling my doctor no and finding
a new doctor.
unknown (39:34):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (39:35):
Yes.
Oh my gosh, we've we've preachedthat before here about firing
doctors when you need to.
SPEAKER_02 (39:40):
Yeah.
I think that's probably theboldest thing I did since we
talked about that.
SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
Well, Alicia, thank you so muchfor this conversation.
This is exactly the kind ofclarity and honesty that our
community needs.
It's a good reminder frominstinct isn't a luxury, and
that strategy is something toknow.
Our members will be definitelysitting with that long after
today.
Um, if today's conversationresonated with you listeners,
this is what Together Digital isall about.
(40:04):
It's bringing your voices,frameworks that actually help
you lead better, work smarter,and show up as your whole self.
Um, if you're not a member yet,we'd love to have you join us
together in digital.com.
We have loads of professionaldevelopment opportunities, peer
groups, which are actuallyhappening at the first of May.
So be sure to check that out.
And a community of women who arejust genuinely here for each
other to lift you up, cheer youon through all of the ups and
(40:27):
downs of work, life, and allthings digital.
So um, as always, it waswonderful to have you here.
Alicia, thank you so much forthis.
It was so fun.
Like I said, this is one morething to go for me to go nerd
out on a hard day.
Um, so I know what I'm doing forlunch.
Thank you.
Talk again soon.
Okay, take care.
Thank you so much.
See you all next time.
(40:48):
Until then, keep asking, keepgiving, and keep growing.
SPEAKER_03 (41:00):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!