September 14, 2026 • 52 mins
A VP of strategy and innovation on career pivots for women in digital, and why you are never starting from zero.
Shannon Lewandowski has moved from software developer to IT manager to digital agency leader to AI and product consulting, and she says none of it was starting over. She joins Amy Vaughan on The Power Lounge to talk career transitions for women in digital, how to tell ordinary restlessness apart from real curiosity, and where to start with AI when you are convinced you are already behind. This is also the first episode of a new Power Lounge series featuring the women of Together Digital.
Key takeaways
- You are never starting from zero. Consulting, coaching, athletics, and even your own life as a customer are all experience you carry into the next role.
- Restlessness and curiosity feel different. Restlessness is unease with where you are. Curiosity pulls you toward something specific.
- Leaders do not need every answer. The work is bringing better questions and surrounding yourself with people who see it differently.
- Start with AI where you are annoyed. Hand over the task you could do in your sleep, then spend that time on work that needs your judgment.
- Women do not need to get better at doing everything. Release the expectation and build the support system instead.
- “I truly believe you’re never really starting from zero.”
Shannon Lewandowski - “I don’t think women have to become better at doing everything.”
Shannon Lewandowski
Timestamps
00:00 Welcome and a new series featuring Together Digital members
01:32 Meet Shannon Lewandowski
02:26 Why a pivot is never starting from zero
05:04 How her relationship with change changed
08:22 Restlessness versus curiosity
13:23 Mentors, coaches, and the coaching program that reframed fulfillment
16:49 Why investing in yourself is worth it, and the time study
21:08 Where to start with AI when you feel behind
25:00 Service design applied to your own career
29:03 Ask, Give, Grow and the gift of asking for help
31:43 What actually holds women back
36:57 Values, energy, and where to start when you feel stuck
40:33 Where her curiosity is leading now
41:47 Power round
43:39 Live audience questions
50:28 Closing
Connect with Shannon Lewandowski
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/shannonlewandowski
Ingage Partners: ingagepartners.com
Connect with Together Digital
Website: togetherindigital.com
Podcast: togetherindigital.com/podcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
What made you realize that pivoting wasn't
(00:02):
really about starting from zeroand about building on what you
already knew?
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Because they've become the foundation for what's
next.
You know, you're never startingover over, you're you're moving
forward more fully with yourwhole self.
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Welcome to our weekly power lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choose toshare their knowledge, power,
and connections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
And starting today, we arelaunching something very
special (00:46):
a new series celebrating the caliber of wise
and generous women who callTogether Digital home.
These are our members who havenavigated their own pivots,
built remarkable careers, andare ready to share what they've
learned with all of us.
And because sometimes the bestinsights don't come from the
outside experts, they come, thecall comes from inside the
house.
They come from within the womenthat are sitting right next to
(01:09):
you in community who has beenexactly where you are and is
willing to light the wayforward.
Today I'm thrilled to featureone of our very own, Shannon
Lewandowski, the VP of Strategyand Innovation at Engage
Partners.
And she brings 20 years ofexperience in building cultures
of innovation across global anddigital agencies and technology
consulting firms.
(01:29):
With a passion for service,design, product strategy, and
helping organizations leverageemerging technologies like AI.
Shannon knows firsthand how tonavigate the messy middle of
change and now to invite othersalong with that journey.
So whether you are contemplatinga move, experimenting with new
technologies, or just wonderinghow to go about abandoning
everything you've already builtand starting again.
(01:51):
Shannon's story has insights foryou.
Welcome to the Power Lounge.
Shannon, it's great to have youhere, friend.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
I'm so excited to be here with you, Amy.
Um, just love all the thingsthat you're doing and all the
community that you're buildingwith.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Yeah, you've been a part of it for a very, very long
time.
How many years now?
I think I've lost count.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
I've lost count.
It's been a long time.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
I think we're pushing 10, right?
At least.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you were a board membertowards the very beginning.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, we've been so um fortunateto have you in this community
for so long and um, you know,just being consistent presence,
even just in my life personally.
Um, it's tremendous.
That's the beauty of this groupand this community as well.
(02:33):
Um, you wanted to talk a bitabout career transitions and
pivots because you know, you'vehad multiple career changes um
across agencies and consulting.
What made me do you realize thatpivoting wasn't really about
starting from zero and aboutbuilding on what you already
knew?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Uh there were a couple times uh, you know, I
picked up some things.
I think when I moved fromFidelity to Bridge Worldwide, so
moving from IT to a digitalagency, um, it initially felt
like a really significant pivot.
Uh, I had never worked inside anagency or led, you know, the
(03:12):
technical side of an e-commerceteam before.
So it would have been easy tofocus on everything that I
didn't have in terms ofexperience, but I began
connecting a lot of the dotspersonally and professionally.
Like my consulting experience atsoftware architects had taught
me how to enter differentenvironments, uh, learn quickly,
apply experience from one clientto the next.
(03:34):
So I think that consultingexperience kind of helped.
Um, at Fidelity, I had developedstrong technical management and
hiring skills.
And then personally, I had beena very early and enthusiastic
e-commerce user.
As a young single mom, Iunderstood firsthand uh the
value technology and conveniencecould create by making everyday
(03:58):
life more just more convenient.
Um and I was so I was bringingparts of myself I hadn't
previously thought of asprofessional experience, my
coaching background, myexperience as an athlete, my
competitive and achievement uhdrives, and my desire to
collaborate and win as a team.
(04:18):
Um so I, you know, I trulybelieve you're never really
starting from zero.
Um, but it does take, I feellike, a few years before you
realize that you can connect allthose different dots and string
those along into a new, into anew um role.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yeah, I think it's such a great mindset of it's not
about what you lack, but whatyou can leverage.
And I love how you're speakingto not just your professional
experience, but your perfer yourpersonal experience, right?
Now you have that point of viewof a customer who immensely
needs e-commerce and that singlemotherhood is that's a reality
that a lot of your customers arepotentially facing.
(04:56):
So that just brings a newfoundempathy into the work that
you're doing, and so I really dolove that.
That's fantastic advice.
Um, you know, another part ofwhat you focus on is innovation
and emerging technologies.
Um, how has your relationshipchanged with um with change and
curiosity shape how you lead?
Because again, all thesedifferent work environments, you
(05:17):
know, we kind of like we're alittle bit chips in the night
agency-wise, but there'sconstant change, you know, on
both sides.
How did you go through that andnavigate that?
And how has it helped shape youin the way you lead?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Yeah, I think my relationship with change uh has
changed over time.
Like at first I was really badat it.
You know, my family moved fromKansas to Ohio during my
freshman year and high school,and I was so stubborn.
I was miserable.
Um, I resisted it uh with everyounce of my being.
Um uh, but eventually I gotthrough it, right?
(05:51):
College athletics was the sameway, like it was a very
difficult transition.
Um, but each time I movedthrough it, I became stronger, I
learned something new aboutmyself, I gained a lot of
confidence.
Um, and I think right, you know,now, today, change activates my
curiosity.
Um, you know, I wonder I want tounderstand what's happening,
(06:14):
consider different possibilitiesand perspectives, um, and find a
path forward.
Um, and I think that's alsochanged how I lead.
Um, you know, I thought when Iwas younger, I thought leaders
had to have all the answers.
Um, but now I really believethat leaders really need to be
bring the best questions andsurround themselves with a lot
(06:35):
of good people, differentperspectives, um, so you can
really bring the best to bear onany given solution.
Um, and I'm also naturally likeforward-leaning, sometimes
focused on so much so that I'malmost always focused on what's
next, that I have to remindmyself to be present.
And I think, you know, changecreates a lot of uncertainty.
(06:58):
Um, but that curiosity cantransform uncertainty into
something that I can explore.
SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
Yeah, to me, I think uncertainty is to always become
opportunity.
You know, whenever the groundstarts to shift beneath you,
especially having had more kindof agency side experience, um,
it was always an opportunity toeither look for the next
opportunity, look foropportunities for growth, take
advantage of the change.
It's really just again, it's ait's a mindset across the board.
(07:26):
But I love what you said aboutgood leaders ask questions.
Um, I've definitely been in, Idon't know about you, but work
environments where questionsaren't really encouraged and
leaders are kind of, they haveto have all the answers and know
everything.
But I think, and I think youwould agree too, that the best
leaders don't, the best leadersask the best questions, like you
said, and don't necessarily showup saying I know everything, but
(07:48):
surround themselves with withthe smart people in the room to
help guide, you know, them.
And and everyone leads in thatway too, which is just a
different mindset than maybewhat we're used to seeing in
certain environments.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Love it.
All right, so a lot of ourmembers have been, it feels like
over the last, I don't know,five or six years, inflection
points, wondering if it's timeto make some kind of a move.
I think a lot of that has to dowith the fact that we've got a
lot of folks who are sittingwith 20 years of experience,
like yourself, and they maybenever get to that VP level or
C-suite level.
Um and or they just don't seethat path forward in their
(08:25):
current worker environment, ormaybe they're dealing with
layoffs and reductions.
What does that moment ofuncertainty typically feel like?
And how do you know whencuriosity is calling for you to
start to make a pivot or changeversus just feeling restless,
which is also like another thingthat can happen, right?
Once you've been in a job for awhile, you start looking around,
like, well, I've been here fiveyears now.
(08:46):
Like, what's next?
What do I do now?
unknown (08:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
I yeah, I I do think restlessness and curiosity can
feel very different.
Um, I think restlessness can bean easiness with the role you're
in, who you are, where you are,or the culture around you.
It can be a lot of things,right?
It could mean that, oh, you'vedone this before, or maybe for
(09:10):
too long, things are feelingstraight stale.
Um, but I think care curiositydoes draw you towards something,
um, a different challenge, ahealthier culture.
It could be um work that givesyou better purpose and energy.
Um, I think earlier in my careeras a developer, I became really
(09:33):
restless because, you know, Iwas part of projects where I
just had to go ahead andimplement whatever decision they
decided to make early on.
And so I really wanted to be,you know, once I got into a
meeting or two, I wanted to beearlier and earlier in the
process.
Um, so eventually became amanager and helped to shape
that.
(09:53):
Um but restlessness also doesn'talways mean you need to leave,
right?
The role you're in or the placethat you're in.
Um when I joined EngagePartners, you know, I had spent
at least six years early in mycareer in IT consulting.
And so returning to it, it feltlike I was getting back on a
bike, you know.
(10:14):
So I soon became kind ofrestless uh just because I knew
it so well.
And but I used my curiosity justto dive into anything that I
could help in other areas.
Um, and that soon led toleadership opportunities and
eventually the role that I'm innow.
Um and I think I think the otherarea that comes up a lot in
(10:38):
Together Digital and otherareas, uh, sometimes that
restlessness or even burnout cansignal that something's not
aligned, right?
Something's not aligned withyour values or the culture is
not right.
Um, and so when I've come acrossthat, I think some of the
questions that I ask myself arelike, Am I doing what I love?
(10:58):
What am I not getting to do thatI want to explore and what needs
to be true about the values andculture, you know, for me to
feel whole.
Um, and so I think usingrestlessness as information and
using your curiosity to figureout, you know, where to go next
is is is the way to go.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
I love it.
Yeah, looking at it as a datapoint, not a reason to run, but
a reason to reflect.
I love that.
Um, because yeah, that can behard sometimes, especially in
this current economy where youknow there's so many job
seekers.
There have been a few women thathave come to me and been like,
I'm so done here, don't knowwhere I'm going, I'm bored, I'm
restless, and I just need toquit.
I'm like, please, for the loveof God, don't.
(11:38):
Like, yeah, you're not gonnafind something right away.
But, you know, reflect upon, youknow, like you were saying, what
are the questions you need toask yourself?
Is it really about the job?
Is it just maybe not living outyour values?
And it doesn't, you know, it'skind of like the same way in
really I like to correlate likeour work to relationships, you
know, and where we work is likeour it's like a marriage, right?
(12:01):
You can't get one thing that youneed, everything that you need
from one person, like every lastbit of support, encouragement,
love, affection, all thosedifferent things.
It can't all come from oneperson.
And everything in the way ofsatisfaction should not just
come from your job.
Not to say you shouldn't behappy with your job, right?
Um, but at the end of the day,you know, there's there's a lot
of other ways to explore findingpurpose, finding or creating
(12:24):
value for yourself and forothers.
Um, and I know you youvolunteered a lot for this
organization, and I even startedoff as a volunteer and it led to
this opportunity.
So I do think, you know, likeyou said, getting curious and
reflecting on those questionsand asking yourself, what is it
about me feeling this way?
I think some of us just kind ofpush it down.
So I do say listen to your gut,listen to those feelings, take
(12:45):
it as data, and then give itsome analysis.
Like you said, get curious justto help you kind of figure out
what that is because nobody'sgonna have that answer but you
either.
And it's definitely not gonnajust be any new job.
So I love that you, I've lovedseeing you progress throughout
Engage because the work that youguys do there is also very
valuable, very important.
And I know the culture alignstremendously with you and who
(13:06):
you are and what you are lookingfor in a company.
And I think you know that speaksvolumes for your ability to, you
know, stick it out even when youfelt restless, but then also for
them to clear a path and helpyou find your way within the
organization.
And that's such a rare thing tofind.
So I'm so happy for you becauseagain, you're talented, they're
lucky, and you're lucky in thatsense too that you've had that
(13:27):
opportunity to grow there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's a great fit.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Yeah.
All right.
So you talk about the role ofmentors, coaches, and community
play during transitions.
Um, you have served and been apart of all of that.
Could you share maybe a specificmoment um when someone's support
or perspective shifted how yousaw your next move?
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Wow.
Um, I could answer this with somany different people or
together digital experiencesthat I've been a part of where
I've seen women helping otherwomen.
Um yeah, I've I've just beenreally fortunate to be around so
many different mentors andcoaches, including yourself.
Um, I think Michael Stick helpedme when I create an expanded
(14:10):
view of myself with so muchpositivity and excitement when I
transition from um BridgePossible to uh Rockfish VML.
Um I think another experiencethat really stands out to me is
my experience with Cheryl andSchool Nicky.
Um we actually needed a speakerkind of last minute.
(14:31):
I think somebody canceled orsomething, and I reached out to
her out of the blue, and thenand then all of a sudden I ended
up on a call with somebody onour team, and I ended up uh
going through her coachingprogram.
And that was really eye-openingbecause she, you know, she
really asks you to ask a lot ofintrospective, valuable
(14:52):
questions of yourself, like youknow, what stories are you um
telling yourself or what shadowexpectations are you meeting
that you actually don't alignwith anymore?
You know, what are those ghostthings that um either are in
your family or culture thatyou've picked up, the
(15:13):
expectations of women, um, whatthings are are actually driving
your behavior and actions andwhat do you need to let go of?
Um, and so I think I reallylearned through that coaching
program to look at fulfillmentacross my entire life.
Like you said, um, you know,career is just one of those
things.
(15:33):
Um, there is no work-lifebalance.
I think a lot of us have beendriven towards perfection.
Sherlyn tries to counterbalancethat with like it's never gonna
be in total balance, but you'vegot to have better tools and
practices and habits and lean oncommunity in order to um be able
to feel fulfilled in some areas,and it's gonna look and feel
(15:55):
different week to week, day today.
Um, but but that's also okay.
Um, and so I think that thatreally helped me look at okay,
because I was in burnout when Ireached out, and so that really
helped me figure out I needsomething that's more purposeful
in my life, and that's actuallywhen I made the transition over
(16:15):
to engage partners.
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
So I love it.
Yeah, we are huge fans over ofuh Cheryl Ann over here at TD.
And thanks to you for bringingher into the group in the
community.
She actually did a workshop forour Cincinnati uh was it last
month, maybe or something likethat?
She's working on some amazingnew things, and um definitely
check out her podcast as well,Brilliant Balance.
(16:37):
I've been a listener for years,always good, valuable stuff, and
I've attended a couple of herworkshops as well.
Um, so I'm glad.
I think actually, I have anotherquestion for you on that because
I feel like, you know, this is aquestion.
You Shannon do a such a good jobof investing in yourself,
whether it's your personal orprofessional development.
Um how do you what what keepsyou doing that?
(16:59):
Because I think actually a lotof women do struggle with it.
They all say, I don't have thetime, I don't have the means, I
don't have the money.
Um, what is it about, you know,the way that you look at this
that helps you get past thosekind of mental blocks and
barriers?
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Uh I think it's you know, it's helped me become more
grounded.
I think um it was hard to investin it, honestly.
Um I think uh I invested in itbecause I was at a place where I
was burned out.
I was didn't know how, you know,a path forward.
(17:34):
And so I had sought a coachseparately, but this, you know,
it was a pretty big investment,but what I got out of it just
gave me so much betterperspective, tools, uh, ways to
be efficient with my time andenergy, um, and helped me get
clear on some things that Ineeded to get clear on.
(17:56):
So um I think it's well worththe time.
Um, and I fit it in.
And actually, one of the greatthings she makes you do is
actually a time study.
It's like, where are youactually spending all your time?
And then you realize, oh, I'mspending all of this time on
whatever, you know, Instagram,scrolling, or you know, just
(18:21):
stuff that isn't adding value toyour life, and you don't realize
how much that adds up.
So there are pockets of timethat you can carve out to, you
know, just get better and learn.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Yeah, because there's a return on an
investment, that's what you'respeaking to.
And I think sometimes it's hardfor us to see the force through
the trees, right?
We see the barriers, we see thetime, we see the money, we see
the commitment, we see the fearand the doubt that maybe it will
or won't work.
But I think especially when youmeet women who have gone through
something like that and have agreat experience, they talk
about it, they share it.
And how long ago did you do thisnow?
(18:55):
Um six years.
Yeah, six years ago, and it'sstill something that is
impacting your daily life.
So I really don't know what likewhat is there to argue with
there.
I mean, I and I know money canbe tight, time can be tight, but
yeah, we we have time for thethings we make time for.
And I think that that time studyis a great exercise.
We often do that at the start ofevery year too for our goal
(19:15):
getters cohort.
Yes, and it's always a greatreminder of yeah, where am I,
where am I not just likespending time, but what gives me
energy and what depletes me andfinding ways to kind of work out
of getting out of having to dothose things that deplete you
and more of the things thatfulfill you.
It's and it can be small littleincremental steps, right?
It doesn't have to be one bigoverhaul of your entire life.
(19:36):
I think that's a part of it too.
Sometimes is our expectationsare so high for ourselves, like
you said, and Sherlain saysoften that perfection, um,
versus just embracing theinsanity and the roller coaster
that can be life, but having theright tools to ground you and to
get you back on track, even whenlife does go sideways, that's
really what it's all about.
So it's definitely not aboutcoming out and finding your
(19:57):
dream job and everything beingperfect.
It's about now you have thetools that you need to find a
little bit, like she says too,like the bike scenario where
you're just always a littlewobbly.
That's the balance.
There's always you're going thisway, you're going that way, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
So reassess, like you said, like with goal
getters, like to reassess whereyou're at.
Like, how am I doing in this,you know, where am I falling
short?
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
And and doing that quarterly, I think has been
really helpful for at least mepersonally, and I know a lot of
our goalgetters every year thatcome back time and time again is
to once a quarter kind of sitdown and look and say, well,
this is what I was thinking atthe start of the quarter, here's
where things netted out, here'skind of how I need to reassess,
reset, and then recalibrate so Ican kind of move forward.
(20:38):
And we have definitely seenwomen kind of achieve their
goals, do amazing things.
And we've seen women come out ofa really like the most
challenging year of their livesjust with their head on straight
and ready to try that goal againthe next year.
And that's really what mattersbecause honestly, that goal
could have completely gone bythe wayside if they wouldn't
have had that support, thatstructure, that ability to
reflect and then show themselvessome grace.
(20:59):
Um yeah, we're only capable ofso much.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
All right, let's talk about another popular topic
within Together Digital.
Um, AI and emerging technology.
A lot of our members often arevery much like self-taught or
constant learners, and sometimesit feels like they're trying to
maintain relevance.
Maybe they are afraid of fallingbehind or they feel intimidated
(21:26):
by new tech.
How do you approachexperimentation without needing
to have all of the answersfirst?
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
Uh yeah, I mean, I've I think I've always loved
looking ahead and catchingglimpses of like what the future
might hold and what the impactof technology is now and how
that can shape.
So I've always been naturallycurious there.
I think my my advice is alwaysto begin with something small
and approachable, right?
So what are you annoyed withright now?
(21:54):
What is what are the the tasksthat you could do in your sleep
that just take up time thatdon't need to be doing um and
really finding a good use um ofAI to help you simplify
accelerate save time so that youcan use your time in the work
that really needs your judgmentand your brain um uh so I I
(22:17):
would say start there um becausewhat we what we want to do is
move our energy towards moremeaningful work right um and you
know at at our company I feellike people are at different
different points in their AIjourney for sure we've got folks
that are experts in agenticdevelopment some that are using
(22:40):
AI and augmented developmentevery day and some don't know
where to begin their clientsmaybe aren't using it yet so
they're finding it hard toexplore um and so we've we've
tried to find ways that peoplecan learn together we we had a
book club on the vibe codingbook um which was helpful and it
(23:01):
it brought some people alongwe've had some hackathons as
well where we try to pair likeexperienced AI users with
inexperienced people togetherand then we have a C3 meetup
where it's it's all arounddevelopment topics some have
been around AI some haven't butit's always like pairing up and
hands-on keyboard type umexperiences and so you know just
(23:23):
like Together Digital I thinkcommunity that community element
is so incredibly important umfinding somebody that has
already automated something oris using a tool that um you've
got um you know finding thatperson or finding that community
and thought partner that canhelp you along the way and I
(23:45):
think eventually figuring outways to use AI as a thought
partner and help shape thestrategies that you need.
I think right now I'm looking atlike what are the building
blocks our people needespecially our um you know the
office staff need in terms oflike our branding and marketing
and strategy and and how can Icraft those so that everyone can
(24:10):
make use of them in whateverthey're trying to create.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
It just feels like you guys thatthere that engage have created
and and we try to do this asTogether Digital as well is just
to create a judgment freelearning space, right?
Where we kind of bring eachother along it's the best thing
ever because you know I'll seeit all the time where whether
it's somebody in-house or agencyor running their own business
are like, I got this problem,how am I going to solve it?
(24:35):
And somebody will inevitablyreach out jump on a call with
you and then walk through youthrough how they set it up or
what process they created andyou can kind of just take it and
hack it like nobody is powerhoarding you know what AI is and
what it can do for you.
And I think that that'stremendous because like you said
everybody is coming in at from adifferent place right a
different headspace a differentbackground and experience with
(24:57):
technology some of us just diveright in and aren't afraid to
screw it up while we learn andothers you know it's it's
daunting.
So I love that.
That's really fantastic.
And then at Engage Partners youguys design solutions that are
about creating lasting impact.
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about that because
we've been bringing engagedpartners up a little bit about
them and then how service designthinking has changed the way
(25:19):
that you approach your owncareer and decisions.
Yeah um so yeah Engaged Partnerswe're we're a local
Cincinnati-based um B Corp andemployee owned company um we're
an AI and digital product uhconsultancy so we build a lot of
(25:42):
solutions for our clients um tohelp make a lasting impact and
and uh our employees volunteer alot of their time we also
sponsor a nonprofit every yearum the social impact fund is
always a fun event we bring in alot of a few nonprofits and they
kind of pitch and we choose weselect one to sponsor for that
(26:04):
year um uh so it's it's a greatway to learn about all the great
nonprofits in our area actuallyum uh so I love that a part of
us um one of the services weoffer is service design um and I
love service design because itmakes you take a 10,000 foot
(26:27):
view like really take a stepback and look at the entire
picture so if I'm trying toapply service design to my
career it's really looking atyou know how is um how is my
current role impacting myability to volunteer my time
(26:49):
here and also coach volleyballat my daughter's high school and
um and help my oldest daughterplan a wedding you know so like
life is really full but I thinkit's it's it's a it's really
looking at the entire thing yourrelationships you know um do you
have the support you need youknow how what does your health
(27:12):
look like and and what are allthe factors that could impact
your ability to perform well atwork and show up um successfully
um and so culture weighs intothat who you're working with
weighs into that you know anysort of mentorship that's there
um but I think it's it's itreminds you to look beyond just
(27:35):
one narrow um problem and figureout what what is the root cause
of whatever's happening uhcurrently in your life love that
so much because I thinkoftentimes we don't realize that
work triple trickles into homelife home life trickles into
right we try to be socompartmentalized and I think
(27:56):
especially women unfortunatelywe are not like I don't feel
like that's many women's fortemaybe guys like I've met a few
guys that are very good at beingcompartmentalized and you know
what they can because you know Icould go into that but that'd be
a whole nother episode ofprivilege there fellas sorry
yeah but um yeah I think forwomen especially there's a lot
(28:18):
to carry um from one place tothe next right and I think
oftentimes we do a disservice toourselves by thinking that that
is the way we can and shouldoperate so I think what you're
saying makes a lot of sense andactually it goes really nicely
into the next question.
As you well know we have our askgive grow philosophy within
Together Digital encouragingmembers to ask for what they
(28:39):
need no guilt, no shame to givewithout any judgment so that we
all can grow together, right?
And it's one of those thingswhere I often tell people, you
know, asking is hard.
And it's definitely a musclethat we have to build.
I think oftentimes when we doour asking of exchange with
Together Digital and you've leda few of these too and you're
definitely in the room with alot of them we get those deer
(29:01):
and headlights looks with thesewomen because they're like how
can we help you?
And they're just not used tobeing asked this and they look
around the room and there'sprobably a million things they
could ask for but even knowingwhat to ask for is the
challenge.
And so you had also mentionedthat asking for help and
offering what you know and howthat accelerates growth for
everyone to just why againyou're such a wonderful person
to be a part of this community.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Could you walk us through for you what that looks
like in practice yeah so I thinkI I think asking for help is
essential in building trust andmeaningful relationships and
connection right when you'reopen and vulnerable about where
you're coming from what you needyou are giving you a gift to
(29:44):
somebody actually you're givingthem an opportunity to know you
more deeply and you're alsocommunicating that you value
their experience and theiradvice and belief that you've
got something meaningful tooffer so I think it's it does
remind me of mentorship a littlebit too but it's it's hard to
get over that that first initialfear of being vulnerable but
(30:09):
once you get on the other sideof it so much good so many good
things happen.
And I think both people growthrough that exchange you know
which is what you see inmentorship right it's not just
the mentee that's growing it'salso the mentor that's growing
both learn and receive umdifferent perspectives and
(30:31):
support and it's it's it'sdefinitely helped us you know
our leadership team at Engagegrow stronger and more
collaboratively together.
But I think it's it's essentialfor for any community and it can
be really helpful in helping aculture grow more positively by
(30:55):
going out of your way to justask advice or ask a question of
somebody that drop by questionmeans means a lot it signals a
lot to people.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
It does yeah it's like you just made me realize
too as you're asking you're alsogiving you know like you said
you're you're showingvulnerability you're showing
that we need each other you'regiving permission to the other
person you know to do the sameand I think as leaders like
that's such a great thing tomodel you know is that ability
to reach out and ask for thehelp when you need it.
(31:28):
I think sometimes people getthrown off by the fact that
they're like oh my gosh theyasked for help but that it's
like oh I feel picked I feelspecial I feel helpful I feel
purposeful and that's the thingis that people really do whether
you're a leader or not peoplewant to help.
You know we feel good when wehelp others and so it's not
completely selfish.
I think sometimes people thinkI'm just being so selfish I'm
making it about me.
(31:48):
It's like no like you're makingsomebody else feel really good
to be able to show up for you byreaching out and asking for the
help when you need it.
So I love it.
Love it love it love it.
From your vantage point inleading strategy and innovation
what do you see holding women inparticular back from um making
the pivots that they might beconsidering speaking of the
things that hold us back outsideof asking yeah wow I feel like
(32:11):
this could be an entire podcastepisode or an entire series um
there's so much to dive intohere I think what you hear a lot
is like you know women hold themback because of the
qualifications andor needing toreceive permission.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
But I think there's bigger issues I think you know
there's the expectation that wehave to show up fully and
sometimes perfectly in everyarea of our lives and we are
managing a lot you kind oftalked to that before you know
and that is an impossiblestandard.
We're expected to buildfulfilling careers while
(32:50):
managing familyresponsibilities, parent
responsibilities, relationships,household caregiving like
there's just so much so manydecisions.
And so when things are reallyhealthy you've got a supportive
partner and a healthy workplacethen it makes it a little bit
easier um you know but forsingle parents or if any one of
(33:15):
those things is not in a healthyspace it's it's so hard because
there are so many externalbarriers there's there's society
societal norms that we'refighting against.
And you know I think you knowpartners may not support the
time that women need foreducation or to pursue coaching
(33:40):
or to pursue those additionalresponsibilities because they
might take away in other areasright and that impacts the
people in their lives.
And I think that's why communityand support and communities like
Together Digital are soimportant, right?
I I think we have to become morecomfortable asking for help,
sharing responsibilities,finding tools and resources to
(34:04):
become more lean and culturereally matters.
Yeah I don't think women have tobecome better at doing
everything.
We need to release thatexpectation that we should and
try to build support systemsthat give us the capacity to
pursue what we want to pursue.
SPEAKER_02 (34:22):
I love that so much and you're absolutely right it
could be a whole nother episodein conversation but I do think
you know the right types ofsupport systems is absolutely
the foundation of that rightbecause we can't do it all and
we can't do it alone.
I think that's been a one thingthat I've really tried to push
with Together Digital as we'veevolved over the course of 10
years now is you know we startedout as a very much an in-person
(34:44):
events organization, you know,with boards and everything and
just really over the yearsespecially through COVID it just
became very apparent to me thatwe need to make community and
education more accessible.
So whether that's our Togetherfoundation to help women who
can't afford memberships oronline master classes that we've
been doing virtual peer groupsversus only in-person peer
groups you know there werecertain things that we stood on
(35:04):
on principle you know and westill have in-person events we
still have in-person peer groupsbut making it to where these
women can actually have accessto this in their own time in
their own way in their own spaceis so important because everyone
needs it and deserves it.
It's just it's not always thateasy to come by.
And I think too there's somesolidarity there, right?
(35:25):
When you start to see and feelyou know we'll have that
conversation sometimes in likethe entrepreneur peer groups or
the working mom or parent peergroups it's like yeah
unsupportive partners or a lackof ability to communicate to
partners what we want and need.
I think we oftentimes have acertain ambition and we don't do
a great job.
We talk about this in goalgetorstoo again to say like this is my
(35:46):
goal everyone who's willing tolisten anyone who's a part of my
life you need to hear that.
And if that means taking acertification going back to
school or just having an hour aweek to work on something for
yourself and like just creatingthat boundary with your family
to say like hey kids, hubs,partner like this hour is mine,
you know and you have tocommunicate that and I think you
(36:08):
know between solidarity and thestrategies that you know your
community can share regardlessof whether you're in this group
or you find your peopleelsewhere um you're right it is
that's I think what it is that'sgoing to take you help you get
over that hurdle.
Because outside of that the onlything standing in the way of it
is yourself right yeah I loveit.
All right so I feel like Shannonyou have always done such a good
(36:31):
job of being um in this lane ofinnovation and emerging tech and
technology for years and againcuriosity is always a big theme
and topic for you.
What is it that um where wouldyou suggest someone start who
(36:52):
really wants to start to embracemore of that mindset?
Maybe that's been a stickingpoint for them.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
What kind of advice do you have um for exploring um
what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
Is that what you're asking?
Yeah for someone who's kind ofmaybe feeling that stuck we were
talking about being stuckearlier being stuck yeah in that
space feeling stuck they're kindof curious about what's next but
then also a little afraid wherewould you suggest you start?
SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
I think I think start with conversations start
talking to people doing workthat interests you pay attention
to what gives you energy somaybe do an assessment on things
that you love doing, don't lovedoing or problems you want to
solve and then where do peopleconsistently seek your help um
(37:43):
with you know those can besignals.
I think I'd also recommendtaking a values assessment
there's a free one that'savailable I took it during um an
aileron uh conscious leadershipprogram.
And that exercise the highestvalue that came up for me was
(38:04):
creativity and it surprised meum at first because you know a
lot of people think of me asanalytical and technical because
of jobs that I've had in thepast being a software developer
at the start of my career.
But you know where I get a lotof energy is when I'm applying
creativity um being able toembrace uh the visionary side of
(38:28):
myself um and and so now I knowthat that aspect has to be a
part of any given job that I'min um and whether that's you
know in the current role I'm init could be also part of my
volunteer work which in the pastI I was spending a lot of time
doing some like social mediadesign um and so that you know
(38:52):
that was enlightening for me andit's like oh yeah I do have a
creative side of my brain thatneeds fulfillment along with a
number of other things but Ithink really getting clear on
your values where you aregetting recharged with energy um
and then turn that insight justinto experimentation, you know,
trying to find something outthere taking a class
(39:14):
volunteering or you know tryingto have that next conversation
on maybe how can I get a role inthat field might be a good place
to start.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I love it.
That's great.
And I think it's really coolthat you shared that you were
surprised by the creativityaspect.
I think because oftentimes wedon't realize creativity takes
so many different forms.
And I think you again with yourcuriosity and analytical mind
you are a problem solver bynature and I think that's what
creativity can do.
It's not just about art on thewalls or having a big fancy
(39:48):
campaign idea.
Sometimes it's finding creativesolutions within very confined
spaces is kind of I think someof the most valuable creativity
art that we don't really talkabout or celebrate because it's
not the one that's hanging it'snot the things that are hanging
up on walls and frames.
Yes you know yes absolutely so Ilove that I think you are very
creative and I think again youvaluing creativity um and
(40:10):
knowing that needs to be a partof it giving you purpose like
that's such great clarity.
So I agree value assessments arewonderful.
All right we've got one morequestion and then we're gonna
jump into our power round I dowant to make mention to our live
listening audience thank you forjoining us and listening live we
love having you here get to hearall the unedited versions of
everything.
But then also you get to askyour questions.
(40:31):
So again we love the asking ofthe questions so if you have a
question for Shannon drop itinto the chat as we get ready to
wrap up here with the lastquestion plus power round
questions I will keep an eye onthe chat to see if you have
anything that you are curiousabout with Shannon.
And on that note looking at yourcareer through that lens of
curiosity Shannon where is yourcuriosity leading you now and
(40:52):
what are you how are you lettingit guide what comes next for
you?
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Yeah so I think when I look at my career I feel like
I feel like I'm in the role Iwas always meant to be in now so
every experience has kind of ledup to this and so uh I say that
but I'm still wearing multiplehats so I'm still juggling this
role and um my previous role.
(41:19):
So my challenge isn't findingsomething to be curious about
it's that there's not enoughhours in the day to pursue
everything that that interestsme.
That's always been the case.
But I feel like there's so muchhappening in the intersection of
AI and human potential and howcan we use technology to
strengthen creativity and deepencollaboration, making work more
(41:41):
meaningful you know we also havesome partnership thing things
happening which are exciting soI'm you know I'm just allowing
my curiosity to to guide metowards those opportunities and
continuing to grow in the therole that I'm in now.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
I love it.
That's so fantastic.
All right I don't see anyquestions coming through yet but
I'll keep an eye back over hereI'm gonna jump over to the power
round what skills have youdeveloped in one role that
became unexpectedly valuable inanother I've coached both my
daughters in sports uh over theyears.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
And I think you know I originally didn't always apply
that professionally but I thinkit's one of my most valuable
leadership skills um you knowwhether it's navigating AI
change or collaboration um ortrying to apply the right
strategy to a game you know uhasking the right question is
(42:46):
often more powerful than havingthe right answer as we mentioned
before so I think I thinkcoaching has always been oh yeah
so crucial.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
I agree I think the best leaders and managers are
coaches first and foremost.
So I agree I think that's afantastic answer.
I love it.
And coaching is the best isn'tit like it just it's so fun.
I think that's my favorite sorewarding it is very rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (43:08):
When something clicks when something clicks and
they finally get it or they justtry to apply what you've
suggested it's it's it'sincredible.
And you know you learn so muchfrom each each uh kid.
SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
Absolutely and I think that getting the chance to
see them grow and progress likeand I think I was I was getting
ready too that like you know Iwould have girls that I coached
five six years ago you know thatare just in the eighth grade now
and they'll say like hey coachAmy I'm like oh my gosh it's
like my favorite title next tomom here in coach.
Right.
Because they just remember youthey stick with you and to watch
(43:46):
their confidence and theirskills grow.
You know now I'm watching themon the junior high team and I'm
like I coached that kid you knowit just it feels so good.
It's like the most accomplishedamazing feeling ever.
So yeah highly recommend it.
We need more moms out out therein the field coaching too.
Coaching is not just for dads.
Yes.
That's right.
All right.
It looks like we've got aquestion from our live listening
(44:07):
audience.
So I'm going to pop over to thatquestion real quick.
Thanks, Jean, for dropping in.
Um she says hi, I've beenfeeling burnt out and not oh
wait.
I yes I've been feeling burntout and not fulfilled.
While I have tried to pivotpriorities, I'm ultimately
looking for a pivot for uhcareer change.
What would you recommend I dowhen I love my company but not
my role?
(44:28):
Oh great question.
I am looking for an internalrole but do not feel fulfilled
at my current role.
SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
Yeah I mean I think anytime you're happy with where
you're at, you know, from aculture from a company
perspective, I think that's asignal to to expand your network
at where you work, right?
And try to find different peoplein different departments,
understand what they're doing,get curious about what are the
(44:57):
things you'd like to be doing.
Is there anyone that's in asimilar role or is there a new
role or new need that you seethat the company actually needs
and so you know that that's kindof how my role came about.
It was something that Engageneeded at the time and so they
created the role.
(45:19):
And so those things can happen.
So yeah first I would saynetwork but also look at you
know what how could youcontribute differently and where
you're at.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
I love that that's great advice.
It kind of takes me back to likemy very early days.
Thanks for the question Jane.
It looks like you got a littleheart there too Shannon so great
answer.
It does remind me back when Ifirst started out before I was a
creative director and I was justcopywriting.
I was a search copywriter andGod it was a drag.
But I found ways to optimizethat whole process which freed
(45:54):
up my time and there was allthis really awesome affiliate
advertising that was happening.
I was working on Ford at thetime and we had like this all
agency meeting and they werepresenting all this cool work.
They were breaking with allthese celebrities doing all
these cool side projects andpartnerships.
And I was like you know what I II want to do something like
this.
So I literally was like hey Ijust cleared some time off my
(46:15):
calendar how can I contribute tothe next project and I had
talked to my boss afterwards Iwas like hey listen I got really
excited about the affiliategroup and was like yo what can I
do to help and he was likethat's fantastic.
And that's how as a juniorcopywriter I got the opportunity
to basically write and direct anASPN TV spot for Ford.
That's amazing.
Like you just go until you askyou have to ask and you have to
(46:40):
show interest and like you saidcuriosity and passion.
It's not that you're not alignedwith the company or the business
you just want to be able to addvalue where you can add value.
SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
And if you're in the right company and culture like
you said they will applaud thatyou know yes yeah that reminds
me of the Abby Wombach she herleadership book you know she
always advises you know leadfrom where you are you know
don't wait for the role.
Yeah just and that so thatreminds me of kind of what you
did.
(47:08):
You just went out and did whatyou wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
You didn't wait for the title or the role yeah no
and again had a very wonderfulboss who was like yeah write
this thing and then when it cametime he was the associate
creative director I was likewell are you going to go direct
the shoot he's like no you wroteit go direct it yeah it's
amazing it was very amazing veryvery lucky to have had him as a
(47:30):
you know a mentor and a and achampion really all right Sisha
has a question for you too doesyour advice change at all for
women who are later in theircareer and more mature i.e
mid-50s?
SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
Mid-50s interesting um that's a good question
something that I haven'tconsidered but I yeah I I don't
think it does change you knowI'm one uh one year or actually
a few months away from turning50 myself um so um way too close
(48:03):
but I I it doesn't changebecause I think we can always
grow and and learn differentthings and take on different
responsibilities.
You know I think there are somethere may be some cultural
things that also impact that andyour ability to convince people
that you're ready to change anddo different things but um I
don't let that hold you back.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
I agree I love that I agree actually I think that
advice goes even as you'retowards the end of your career,
right?
Because Yeah as you try to kindof find yourself and figure
yourself out I mean there's thisI think there's this point
because I've coached women fromall ages.
In fact a lot of my my clientsthat I've had in the past have
been 50 to 60 and I'm like waita second I I'm just a little bit
(48:46):
behind you but cool.
And I think the the mostimportant thing that they have
learned is that the growth anddevelopment professionally
personally it never stops.
And that doesn't mean it's likea marathon it just means you
always will be evolving.
And even as we do like ourvalues assessment I think even
as you get older your valuesstart to change.
And so you need to almostreassess them even more so and
(49:07):
not assume it's for everythingthat you've had in the past.
Because I think the older we getespecially as women the more we
know ourselves and the lessshits we give about everybody
else and what they think.
Right.
All the more time Trisha to justlean into that advice that
Shannon gave.
I love it.
Thank you again for the questionall right let's go let's go to
the last um question here in thepower round and then I'll keep
(49:29):
an eye on the chat what is onething that you'd wish you'd
known before you um before yourfirst big career pivot uh to
bring your full experiencestrengths passions with you.
SPEAKER_01 (49:43):
Yeah um because they become the foundation for what's
next you know you're neverstarting over over you're you're
moving forward more fully withyour whole self.
SPEAKER_02 (49:55):
I agree I agree I think it's so hard sometimes
we're often encouraged to lookand sound and be a certain way
or have their own like you knowyou need more executive presence
or you need to be lessaggressive.
There's so many things that wehave to like that we're up
against when it comes to feelinglike we can show up wholly and
honestly but I do think again togo back to the age thing that's
(50:17):
the blessing of I think thiscommunity too I think a majority
of our members are 40 and overand it just is circumstantial in
the way that things have evolvedover the years.
Not to say that we don't havejunior professionals but I think
there's just something wonderfulabout being in a room of women
who really know what it is likeout there.
They've got ears under theirbelt they're not holding back
(50:37):
from sharing the really reals umand they really know what they
want to need.
They just need a space to kindof practice that voice and that
confidence you know and theability to continue to want to
learn without feelingirrelevant.
So love it.
Great questions ladies thank youso much we appreciate you.
All right friends that is whatwe've got for you today.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
(50:58):
Shannon thank you so much forshowing us that career pivots
are powered by curiosity and notfear and that the people around
us are what really matter everystep of the way to everyone
watching this is what ourcommunity is built on women like
Shannon who have walked the pathand are generously lighting the
way for others if you want tokeep learning from amazing
leaders like Shannon connectwith us togetherindigital.com
(51:19):
join us for more Power Loungesessions, expert masterclasses,
peer groups, access to communitywomen who truly understand your
journey Shannon, I can think ofsomeone better to have started
this whole series with so thankyou so much for volunteering.
I really appreciate it.
Oh thank you so much Amy I adoreyou all right goes both ways
(51:39):
girlfriend all right everyonethat's all we've got for you now
enjoy the rest of your Friday wehope to see you next week until
then keep asking keep giving andkeep growing produced by
Heartcast Media
What made you realize that pivoting wasn't
(00:02):
really about starting from zeroand about building on what you
already knew?
SPEAKER_01 (00:05):
Because they've become the foundation for what's
next.
You know, you're never startingover over, you're you're moving
forward more fully with yourwhole self.
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Welcome to our weekly power lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choose toshare their knowledge, power,
and connections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
And starting today, we arelaunching something very
special (00:46):
a new series celebrating the caliber of wise
and generous women who callTogether Digital home.
These are our members who havenavigated their own pivots,
built remarkable careers, andare ready to share what they've
learned with all of us.
And because sometimes the bestinsights don't come from the
outside experts, they come, thecall comes from inside the
house.
They come from within the womenthat are sitting right next to
(01:09):
you in community who has beenexactly where you are and is
willing to light the wayforward.
Today I'm thrilled to featureone of our very own, Shannon
Lewandowski, the VP of Strategyand Innovation at Engage
Partners.
And she brings 20 years ofexperience in building cultures
of innovation across global anddigital agencies and technology
consulting firms.
(01:29):
With a passion for service,design, product strategy, and
helping organizations leverageemerging technologies like AI.
Shannon knows firsthand how tonavigate the messy middle of
change and now to invite othersalong with that journey.
So whether you are contemplatinga move, experimenting with new
technologies, or just wonderinghow to go about abandoning
everything you've already builtand starting again.
(01:51):
Shannon's story has insights foryou.
Welcome to the Power Lounge.
Shannon, it's great to have youhere, friend.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
I'm so excited to be here with you, Amy.
Um, just love all the thingsthat you're doing and all the
community that you're buildingwith.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Yeah, you've been a part of it for a very, very long
time.
How many years now?
I think I've lost count.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
I've lost count.
It's been a long time.
SPEAKER_02 (02:12):
I think we're pushing 10, right?
At least.
Yeah, yeah.
Because you were a board membertowards the very beginning.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I love it.
Well, we've been so um fortunateto have you in this community
for so long and um, you know,just being consistent presence,
even just in my life personally.
Um, it's tremendous.
That's the beauty of this groupand this community as well.
(02:33):
Um, you wanted to talk a bitabout career transitions and
pivots because you know, you'vehad multiple career changes um
across agencies and consulting.
What made me do you realize thatpivoting wasn't really about
starting from zero and aboutbuilding on what you already
knew?
SPEAKER_01 (02:50):
Uh there were a couple times uh, you know, I
picked up some things.
I think when I moved fromFidelity to Bridge Worldwide, so
moving from IT to a digitalagency, um, it initially felt
like a really significant pivot.
Uh, I had never worked inside anagency or led, you know, the
(03:12):
technical side of an e-commerceteam before.
So it would have been easy tofocus on everything that I
didn't have in terms ofexperience, but I began
connecting a lot of the dotspersonally and professionally.
Like my consulting experience atsoftware architects had taught
me how to enter differentenvironments, uh, learn quickly,
apply experience from one clientto the next.
(03:34):
So I think that consultingexperience kind of helped.
Um, at Fidelity, I had developedstrong technical management and
hiring skills.
And then personally, I had beena very early and enthusiastic
e-commerce user.
As a young single mom, Iunderstood firsthand uh the
value technology and conveniencecould create by making everyday
(03:58):
life more just more convenient.
Um and I was so I was bringingparts of myself I hadn't
previously thought of asprofessional experience, my
coaching background, myexperience as an athlete, my
competitive and achievement uhdrives, and my desire to
collaborate and win as a team.
(04:18):
Um so I, you know, I trulybelieve you're never really
starting from zero.
Um, but it does take, I feellike, a few years before you
realize that you can connect allthose different dots and string
those along into a new, into anew um role.
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
Yeah, I think it's such a great mindset of it's not
about what you lack, but whatyou can leverage.
And I love how you're speakingto not just your professional
experience, but your perfer yourpersonal experience, right?
Now you have that point of viewof a customer who immensely
needs e-commerce and that singlemotherhood is that's a reality
that a lot of your customers arepotentially facing.
(04:56):
So that just brings a newfoundempathy into the work that
you're doing, and so I really dolove that.
That's fantastic advice.
Um, you know, another part ofwhat you focus on is innovation
and emerging technologies.
Um, how has your relationshipchanged with um with change and
curiosity shape how you lead?
Because again, all thesedifferent work environments, you
(05:17):
know, we kind of like we're alittle bit chips in the night
agency-wise, but there'sconstant change, you know, on
both sides.
How did you go through that andnavigate that?
And how has it helped shape youin the way you lead?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Yeah, I think my relationship with change uh has
changed over time.
Like at first I was really badat it.
You know, my family moved fromKansas to Ohio during my
freshman year and high school,and I was so stubborn.
I was miserable.
Um, I resisted it uh with everyounce of my being.
Um uh, but eventually I gotthrough it, right?
(05:51):
College athletics was the sameway, like it was a very
difficult transition.
Um, but each time I movedthrough it, I became stronger, I
learned something new aboutmyself, I gained a lot of
confidence.
Um, and I think right, you know,now, today, change activates my
curiosity.
Um, you know, I wonder I want tounderstand what's happening,
(06:14):
consider different possibilitiesand perspectives, um, and find a
path forward.
Um, and I think that's alsochanged how I lead.
Um, you know, I thought when Iwas younger, I thought leaders
had to have all the answers.
Um, but now I really believethat leaders really need to be
bring the best questions andsurround themselves with a lot
(06:35):
of good people, differentperspectives, um, so you can
really bring the best to bear onany given solution.
Um, and I'm also naturally likeforward-leaning, sometimes
focused on so much so that I'malmost always focused on what's
next, that I have to remindmyself to be present.
And I think, you know, changecreates a lot of uncertainty.
(06:58):
Um, but that curiosity cantransform uncertainty into
something that I can explore.
SPEAKER_02 (07:06):
Yeah, to me, I think uncertainty is to always become
opportunity.
You know, whenever the groundstarts to shift beneath you,
especially having had more kindof agency side experience, um,
it was always an opportunity toeither look for the next
opportunity, look foropportunities for growth, take
advantage of the change.
It's really just again, it's ait's a mindset across the board.
(07:26):
But I love what you said aboutgood leaders ask questions.
Um, I've definitely been in, Idon't know about you, but work
environments where questionsaren't really encouraged and
leaders are kind of, they haveto have all the answers and know
everything.
But I think, and I think youwould agree too, that the best
leaders don't, the best leadersask the best questions, like you
said, and don't necessarily showup saying I know everything, but
(07:48):
surround themselves with withthe smart people in the room to
help guide, you know, them.
And and everyone leads in thatway too, which is just a
different mindset than maybewhat we're used to seeing in
certain environments.
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (08:02):
Love it.
All right, so a lot of ourmembers have been, it feels like
over the last, I don't know,five or six years, inflection
points, wondering if it's timeto make some kind of a move.
I think a lot of that has to dowith the fact that we've got a
lot of folks who are sittingwith 20 years of experience,
like yourself, and they maybenever get to that VP level or
C-suite level.
Um and or they just don't seethat path forward in their
(08:25):
current worker environment, ormaybe they're dealing with
layoffs and reductions.
What does that moment ofuncertainty typically feel like?
And how do you know whencuriosity is calling for you to
start to make a pivot or changeversus just feeling restless,
which is also like another thingthat can happen, right?
Once you've been in a job for awhile, you start looking around,
like, well, I've been here fiveyears now.
(08:46):
Like, what's next?
What do I do now?
unknown (08:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
I yeah, I I do think restlessness and curiosity can
feel very different.
Um, I think restlessness can bean easiness with the role you're
in, who you are, where you are,or the culture around you.
It can be a lot of things,right?
It could mean that, oh, you'vedone this before, or maybe for
(09:10):
too long, things are feelingstraight stale.
Um, but I think care curiositydoes draw you towards something,
um, a different challenge, ahealthier culture.
It could be um work that givesyou better purpose and energy.
Um, I think earlier in my careeras a developer, I became really
(09:33):
restless because, you know, Iwas part of projects where I
just had to go ahead andimplement whatever decision they
decided to make early on.
And so I really wanted to be,you know, once I got into a
meeting or two, I wanted to beearlier and earlier in the
process.
Um, so eventually became amanager and helped to shape
that.
(09:53):
Um but restlessness also doesn'talways mean you need to leave,
right?
The role you're in or the placethat you're in.
Um when I joined EngagePartners, you know, I had spent
at least six years early in mycareer in IT consulting.
And so returning to it, it feltlike I was getting back on a
bike, you know.
(10:14):
So I soon became kind ofrestless uh just because I knew
it so well.
And but I used my curiosity justto dive into anything that I
could help in other areas.
Um, and that soon led toleadership opportunities and
eventually the role that I'm innow.
Um and I think I think the otherarea that comes up a lot in
(10:38):
Together Digital and otherareas, uh, sometimes that
restlessness or even burnout cansignal that something's not
aligned, right?
Something's not aligned withyour values or the culture is
not right.
Um, and so when I've come acrossthat, I think some of the
questions that I ask myself arelike, Am I doing what I love?
(10:58):
What am I not getting to do thatI want to explore and what needs
to be true about the values andculture, you know, for me to
feel whole.
Um, and so I think usingrestlessness as information and
using your curiosity to figureout, you know, where to go next
is is is the way to go.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
I love it.
Yeah, looking at it as a datapoint, not a reason to run, but
a reason to reflect.
I love that.
Um, because yeah, that can behard sometimes, especially in
this current economy where youknow there's so many job
seekers.
There have been a few women thathave come to me and been like,
I'm so done here, don't knowwhere I'm going, I'm bored, I'm
restless, and I just need toquit.
I'm like, please, for the loveof God, don't.
(11:38):
Like, yeah, you're not gonnafind something right away.
But, you know, reflect upon, youknow, like you were saying, what
are the questions you need toask yourself?
Is it really about the job?
Is it just maybe not living outyour values?
And it doesn't, you know, it'skind of like the same way in
really I like to correlate likeour work to relationships, you
know, and where we work is likeour it's like a marriage, right?
(12:01):
You can't get one thing that youneed, everything that you need
from one person, like every lastbit of support, encouragement,
love, affection, all thosedifferent things.
It can't all come from oneperson.
And everything in the way ofsatisfaction should not just
come from your job.
Not to say you shouldn't behappy with your job, right?
Um, but at the end of the day,you know, there's there's a lot
of other ways to explore findingpurpose, finding or creating
(12:24):
value for yourself and forothers.
Um, and I know you youvolunteered a lot for this
organization, and I even startedoff as a volunteer and it led to
this opportunity.
So I do think, you know, likeyou said, getting curious and
reflecting on those questionsand asking yourself, what is it
about me feeling this way?
I think some of us just kind ofpush it down.
So I do say listen to your gut,listen to those feelings, take
(12:45):
it as data, and then give itsome analysis.
Like you said, get curious justto help you kind of figure out
what that is because nobody'sgonna have that answer but you
either.
And it's definitely not gonnajust be any new job.
So I love that you, I've lovedseeing you progress throughout
Engage because the work that youguys do there is also very
valuable, very important.
And I know the culture alignstremendously with you and who
(13:06):
you are and what you are lookingfor in a company.
And I think you know that speaksvolumes for your ability to, you
know, stick it out even when youfelt restless, but then also for
them to clear a path and helpyou find your way within the
organization.
And that's such a rare thing tofind.
So I'm so happy for you becauseagain, you're talented, they're
lucky, and you're lucky in thatsense too that you've had that
(13:27):
opportunity to grow there.
SPEAKER_01 (13:28):
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's a great fit.
SPEAKER_02 (13:31):
Yeah.
All right.
So you talk about the role ofmentors, coaches, and community
play during transitions.
Um, you have served and been apart of all of that.
Could you share maybe a specificmoment um when someone's support
or perspective shifted how yousaw your next move?
SPEAKER_01 (13:47):
Wow.
Um, I could answer this with somany different people or
together digital experiencesthat I've been a part of where
I've seen women helping otherwomen.
Um yeah, I've I've just beenreally fortunate to be around so
many different mentors andcoaches, including yourself.
Um, I think Michael Stick helpedme when I create an expanded
(14:10):
view of myself with so muchpositivity and excitement when I
transition from um BridgePossible to uh Rockfish VML.
Um I think another experiencethat really stands out to me is
my experience with Cheryl andSchool Nicky.
Um we actually needed a speakerkind of last minute.
(14:31):
I think somebody canceled orsomething, and I reached out to
her out of the blue, and thenand then all of a sudden I ended
up on a call with somebody onour team, and I ended up uh
going through her coachingprogram.
And that was really eye-openingbecause she, you know, she
really asks you to ask a lot ofintrospective, valuable
(14:52):
questions of yourself, like youknow, what stories are you um
telling yourself or what shadowexpectations are you meeting
that you actually don't alignwith anymore?
You know, what are those ghostthings that um either are in
your family or culture thatyou've picked up, the
(15:13):
expectations of women, um, whatthings are are actually driving
your behavior and actions andwhat do you need to let go of?
Um, and so I think I reallylearned through that coaching
program to look at fulfillmentacross my entire life.
Like you said, um, you know,career is just one of those
things.
(15:33):
Um, there is no work-lifebalance.
I think a lot of us have beendriven towards perfection.
Sherlyn tries to counterbalancethat with like it's never gonna
be in total balance, but you'vegot to have better tools and
practices and habits and lean oncommunity in order to um be able
to feel fulfilled in some areas,and it's gonna look and feel
(15:55):
different week to week, day today.
Um, but but that's also okay.
Um, and so I think that thatreally helped me look at okay,
because I was in burnout when Ireached out, and so that really
helped me figure out I needsomething that's more purposeful
in my life, and that's actuallywhen I made the transition over
(16:15):
to engage partners.
SPEAKER_02 (16:16):
So I love it.
Yeah, we are huge fans over ofuh Cheryl Ann over here at TD.
And thanks to you for bringingher into the group in the
community.
She actually did a workshop forour Cincinnati uh was it last
month, maybe or something likethat?
She's working on some amazingnew things, and um definitely
check out her podcast as well,Brilliant Balance.
(16:37):
I've been a listener for years,always good, valuable stuff, and
I've attended a couple of herworkshops as well.
Um, so I'm glad.
I think actually, I have anotherquestion for you on that because
I feel like, you know, this is aquestion.
You Shannon do a such a good jobof investing in yourself,
whether it's your personal orprofessional development.
Um how do you what what keepsyou doing that?
(16:59):
Because I think actually a lotof women do struggle with it.
They all say, I don't have thetime, I don't have the means, I
don't have the money.
Um, what is it about, you know,the way that you look at this
that helps you get past thosekind of mental blocks and
barriers?
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Uh I think it's you know, it's helped me become more
grounded.
I think um it was hard to investin it, honestly.
Um I think uh I invested in itbecause I was at a place where I
was burned out.
I was didn't know how, you know,a path forward.
(17:34):
And so I had sought a coachseparately, but this, you know,
it was a pretty big investment,but what I got out of it just
gave me so much betterperspective, tools, uh, ways to
be efficient with my time andenergy, um, and helped me get
clear on some things that Ineeded to get clear on.
(17:56):
So um I think it's well worththe time.
Um, and I fit it in.
And actually, one of the greatthings she makes you do is
actually a time study.
It's like, where are youactually spending all your time?
And then you realize, oh, I'mspending all of this time on
whatever, you know, Instagram,scrolling, or you know, just
(18:21):
stuff that isn't adding value toyour life, and you don't realize
how much that adds up.
So there are pockets of timethat you can carve out to, you
know, just get better and learn.
SPEAKER_02 (18:32):
Yeah, because there's a return on an
investment, that's what you'respeaking to.
And I think sometimes it's hardfor us to see the force through
the trees, right?
We see the barriers, we see thetime, we see the money, we see
the commitment, we see the fearand the doubt that maybe it will
or won't work.
But I think especially when youmeet women who have gone through
something like that and have agreat experience, they talk
about it, they share it.
And how long ago did you do thisnow?
(18:55):
Um six years.
Yeah, six years ago, and it'sstill something that is
impacting your daily life.
So I really don't know what likewhat is there to argue with
there.
I mean, I and I know money canbe tight, time can be tight, but
yeah, we we have time for thethings we make time for.
And I think that that time studyis a great exercise.
We often do that at the start ofevery year too for our goal
(19:15):
getters cohort.
Yes, and it's always a greatreminder of yeah, where am I,
where am I not just likespending time, but what gives me
energy and what depletes me andfinding ways to kind of work out
of getting out of having to dothose things that deplete you
and more of the things thatfulfill you.
It's and it can be small littleincremental steps, right?
It doesn't have to be one bigoverhaul of your entire life.
(19:36):
I think that's a part of it too.
Sometimes is our expectationsare so high for ourselves, like
you said, and Sherlain saysoften that perfection, um,
versus just embracing theinsanity and the roller coaster
that can be life, but having theright tools to ground you and to
get you back on track, even whenlife does go sideways, that's
really what it's all about.
So it's definitely not aboutcoming out and finding your
(19:57):
dream job and everything beingperfect.
It's about now you have thetools that you need to find a
little bit, like she says too,like the bike scenario where
you're just always a littlewobbly.
That's the balance.
There's always you're going thisway, you're going that way, you
know.
SPEAKER_01 (20:09):
So reassess, like you said, like with goal
getters, like to reassess whereyou're at.
Like, how am I doing in this,you know, where am I falling
short?
SPEAKER_02 (20:17):
And and doing that quarterly, I think has been
really helpful for at least mepersonally, and I know a lot of
our goalgetters every year thatcome back time and time again is
to once a quarter kind of sitdown and look and say, well,
this is what I was thinking atthe start of the quarter, here's
where things netted out, here'skind of how I need to reassess,
reset, and then recalibrate so Ican kind of move forward.
(20:38):
And we have definitely seenwomen kind of achieve their
goals, do amazing things.
And we've seen women come out ofa really like the most
challenging year of their livesjust with their head on straight
and ready to try that goal againthe next year.
And that's really what mattersbecause honestly, that goal
could have completely gone bythe wayside if they wouldn't
have had that support, thatstructure, that ability to
reflect and then show themselvessome grace.
(20:59):
Um yeah, we're only capable ofso much.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:05):
All right, let's talk about another popular topic
within Together Digital.
Um, AI and emerging technology.
A lot of our members often arevery much like self-taught or
constant learners, and sometimesit feels like they're trying to
maintain relevance.
Maybe they are afraid of fallingbehind or they feel intimidated
(21:26):
by new tech.
How do you approachexperimentation without needing
to have all of the answersfirst?
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
Uh yeah, I mean, I've I think I've always loved
looking ahead and catchingglimpses of like what the future
might hold and what the impactof technology is now and how
that can shape.
So I've always been naturallycurious there.
I think my my advice is alwaysto begin with something small
and approachable, right?
So what are you annoyed withright now?
(21:54):
What is what are the the tasksthat you could do in your sleep
that just take up time thatdon't need to be doing um and
really finding a good use um ofAI to help you simplify
accelerate save time so that youcan use your time in the work
that really needs your judgmentand your brain um uh so I I
(22:17):
would say start there um becausewhat we what we want to do is
move our energy towards moremeaningful work right um and you
know at at our company I feellike people are at different
different points in their AIjourney for sure we've got folks
that are experts in agenticdevelopment some that are using
(22:40):
AI and augmented developmentevery day and some don't know
where to begin their clientsmaybe aren't using it yet so
they're finding it hard toexplore um and so we've we've
tried to find ways that peoplecan learn together we we had a
book club on the vibe codingbook um which was helpful and it
(23:01):
it brought some people alongwe've had some hackathons as
well where we try to pair likeexperienced AI users with
inexperienced people togetherand then we have a C3 meetup
where it's it's all arounddevelopment topics some have
been around AI some haven't butit's always like pairing up and
hands-on keyboard type umexperiences and so you know just
(23:23):
like Together Digital I thinkcommunity that community element
is so incredibly important umfinding somebody that has
already automated something oris using a tool that um you've
got um you know finding thatperson or finding that community
and thought partner that canhelp you along the way and I
(23:45):
think eventually figuring outways to use AI as a thought
partner and help shape thestrategies that you need.
I think right now I'm looking atlike what are the building
blocks our people needespecially our um you know the
office staff need in terms oflike our branding and marketing
and strategy and and how can Icraft those so that everyone can
(24:10):
make use of them in whateverthey're trying to create.
SPEAKER_02 (24:13):
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
It just feels like you guys thatthere that engage have created
and and we try to do this asTogether Digital as well is just
to create a judgment freelearning space, right?
Where we kind of bring eachother along it's the best thing
ever because you know I'll seeit all the time where whether
it's somebody in-house or agencyor running their own business
are like, I got this problem,how am I going to solve it?
(24:35):
And somebody will inevitablyreach out jump on a call with
you and then walk through youthrough how they set it up or
what process they created andyou can kind of just take it and
hack it like nobody is powerhoarding you know what AI is and
what it can do for you.
And I think that that'stremendous because like you said
everybody is coming in at from adifferent place right a
different headspace a differentbackground and experience with
(24:57):
technology some of us just diveright in and aren't afraid to
screw it up while we learn andothers you know it's it's
daunting.
So I love that.
That's really fantastic.
And then at Engage Partners youguys design solutions that are
about creating lasting impact.
I'd love for you to talk alittle bit about that because
we've been bringing engagedpartners up a little bit about
them and then how service designthinking has changed the way
(25:19):
that you approach your owncareer and decisions.
Yeah um so yeah Engaged Partnerswe're we're a local
Cincinnati-based um B Corp andemployee owned company um we're
an AI and digital product uhconsultancy so we build a lot of
(25:42):
solutions for our clients um tohelp make a lasting impact and
and uh our employees volunteer alot of their time we also
sponsor a nonprofit every yearum the social impact fund is
always a fun event we bring in alot of a few nonprofits and they
kind of pitch and we choose weselect one to sponsor for that
(26:04):
year um uh so it's it's a greatway to learn about all the great
nonprofits in our area actuallyum uh so I love that a part of
us um one of the services weoffer is service design um and I
love service design because itmakes you take a 10,000 foot
(26:27):
view like really take a stepback and look at the entire
picture so if I'm trying toapply service design to my
career it's really looking atyou know how is um how is my
current role impacting myability to volunteer my time
(26:49):
here and also coach volleyballat my daughter's high school and
um and help my oldest daughterplan a wedding you know so like
life is really full but I thinkit's it's it's a it's really
looking at the entire thing yourrelationships you know um do you
have the support you need youknow how what does your health
(27:12):
look like and and what are allthe factors that could impact
your ability to perform well atwork and show up um successfully
um and so culture weighs intothat who you're working with
weighs into that you know anysort of mentorship that's there
um but I think it's it's itreminds you to look beyond just
(27:35):
one narrow um problem and figureout what what is the root cause
of whatever's happening uhcurrently in your life love that
so much because I thinkoftentimes we don't realize that
work triple trickles into homelife home life trickles into
right we try to be socompartmentalized and I think
(27:56):
especially women unfortunatelywe are not like I don't feel
like that's many women's fortemaybe guys like I've met a few
guys that are very good at beingcompartmentalized and you know
what they can because you know Icould go into that but that'd be
a whole nother episode ofprivilege there fellas sorry
yeah but um yeah I think forwomen especially there's a lot
(28:18):
to carry um from one place tothe next right and I think
oftentimes we do a disservice toourselves by thinking that that
is the way we can and shouldoperate so I think what you're
saying makes a lot of sense andactually it goes really nicely
into the next question.
As you well know we have our askgive grow philosophy within
Together Digital encouragingmembers to ask for what they
(28:39):
need no guilt, no shame to givewithout any judgment so that we
all can grow together, right?
And it's one of those thingswhere I often tell people, you
know, asking is hard.
And it's definitely a musclethat we have to build.
I think oftentimes when we doour asking of exchange with
Together Digital and you've leda few of these too and you're
definitely in the room with alot of them we get those deer
(29:01):
and headlights looks with thesewomen because they're like how
can we help you?
And they're just not used tobeing asked this and they look
around the room and there'sprobably a million things they
could ask for but even knowingwhat to ask for is the
challenge.
And so you had also mentionedthat asking for help and
offering what you know and howthat accelerates growth for
everyone to just why againyou're such a wonderful person
to be a part of this community.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Could you walk us through for you what that looks
like in practice yeah so I thinkI I think asking for help is
essential in building trust andmeaningful relationships and
connection right when you'reopen and vulnerable about where
you're coming from what you needyou are giving you a gift to
(29:44):
somebody actually you're givingthem an opportunity to know you
more deeply and you're alsocommunicating that you value
their experience and theiradvice and belief that you've
got something meaningful tooffer so I think it's it does
remind me of mentorship a littlebit too but it's it's hard to
get over that that first initialfear of being vulnerable but
(30:09):
once you get on the other sideof it so much good so many good
things happen.
And I think both people growthrough that exchange you know
which is what you see inmentorship right it's not just
the mentee that's growing it'salso the mentor that's growing
both learn and receive umdifferent perspectives and
(30:31):
support and it's it's it'sdefinitely helped us you know
our leadership team at Engagegrow stronger and more
collaboratively together.
But I think it's it's essentialfor for any community and it can
be really helpful in helping aculture grow more positively by
(30:55):
going out of your way to justask advice or ask a question of
somebody that drop by questionmeans means a lot it signals a
lot to people.
SPEAKER_02 (31:06):
It does yeah it's like you just made me realize
too as you're asking you're alsogiving you know like you said
you're you're showingvulnerability you're showing
that we need each other you'regiving permission to the other
person you know to do the sameand I think as leaders like
that's such a great thing tomodel you know is that ability
to reach out and ask for thehelp when you need it.
(31:28):
I think sometimes people getthrown off by the fact that
they're like oh my gosh theyasked for help but that it's
like oh I feel picked I feelspecial I feel helpful I feel
purposeful and that's the thingis that people really do whether
you're a leader or not peoplewant to help.
You know we feel good when wehelp others and so it's not
completely selfish.
I think sometimes people thinkI'm just being so selfish I'm
making it about me.
(31:48):
It's like no like you're makingsomebody else feel really good
to be able to show up for you byreaching out and asking for the
help when you need it.
So I love it.
Love it love it love it.
From your vantage point inleading strategy and innovation
what do you see holding women inparticular back from um making
the pivots that they might beconsidering speaking of the
things that hold us back outsideof asking yeah wow I feel like
(32:11):
this could be an entire podcastepisode or an entire series um
there's so much to dive intohere I think what you hear a lot
is like you know women hold themback because of the
qualifications andor needing toreceive permission.
SPEAKER_01 (32:28):
But I think there's bigger issues I think you know
there's the expectation that wehave to show up fully and
sometimes perfectly in everyarea of our lives and we are
managing a lot you kind oftalked to that before you know
and that is an impossiblestandard.
We're expected to buildfulfilling careers while
(32:50):
managing familyresponsibilities, parent
responsibilities, relationships,household caregiving like
there's just so much so manydecisions.
And so when things are reallyhealthy you've got a supportive
partner and a healthy workplacethen it makes it a little bit
easier um you know but forsingle parents or if any one of
(33:15):
those things is not in a healthyspace it's it's so hard because
there are so many externalbarriers there's there's society
societal norms that we'refighting against.
And you know I think you knowpartners may not support the
time that women need foreducation or to pursue coaching
(33:40):
or to pursue those additionalresponsibilities because they
might take away in other areasright and that impacts the
people in their lives.
And I think that's why communityand support and communities like
Together Digital are soimportant, right?
I I think we have to become morecomfortable asking for help,
sharing responsibilities,finding tools and resources to
(34:04):
become more lean and culturereally matters.
Yeah I don't think women have tobecome better at doing
everything.
We need to release thatexpectation that we should and
try to build support systemsthat give us the capacity to
pursue what we want to pursue.
SPEAKER_02 (34:22):
I love that so much and you're absolutely right it
could be a whole nother episodein conversation but I do think
you know the right types ofsupport systems is absolutely
the foundation of that rightbecause we can't do it all and
we can't do it alone.
I think that's been a one thingthat I've really tried to push
with Together Digital as we'veevolved over the course of 10
years now is you know we startedout as a very much an in-person
(34:44):
events organization, you know,with boards and everything and
just really over the yearsespecially through COVID it just
became very apparent to me thatwe need to make community and
education more accessible.
So whether that's our Togetherfoundation to help women who
can't afford memberships oronline master classes that we've
been doing virtual peer groupsversus only in-person peer
groups you know there werecertain things that we stood on
(35:04):
on principle you know and westill have in-person events we
still have in-person peer groupsbut making it to where these
women can actually have accessto this in their own time in
their own way in their own spaceis so important because everyone
needs it and deserves it.
It's just it's not always thateasy to come by.
And I think too there's somesolidarity there, right?
(35:25):
When you start to see and feelyou know we'll have that
conversation sometimes in likethe entrepreneur peer groups or
the working mom or parent peergroups it's like yeah
unsupportive partners or a lackof ability to communicate to
partners what we want and need.
I think we oftentimes have acertain ambition and we don't do
a great job.
We talk about this in goalgetorstoo again to say like this is my
(35:46):
goal everyone who's willing tolisten anyone who's a part of my
life you need to hear that.
And if that means taking acertification going back to
school or just having an hour aweek to work on something for
yourself and like just creatingthat boundary with your family
to say like hey kids, hubs,partner like this hour is mine,
you know and you have tocommunicate that and I think you
(36:08):
know between solidarity and thestrategies that you know your
community can share regardlessof whether you're in this group
or you find your peopleelsewhere um you're right it is
that's I think what it is that'sgoing to take you help you get
over that hurdle.
Because outside of that the onlything standing in the way of it
is yourself right yeah I loveit.
All right so I feel like Shannonyou have always done such a good
(36:31):
job of being um in this lane ofinnovation and emerging tech and
technology for years and againcuriosity is always a big theme
and topic for you.
What is it that um where wouldyou suggest someone start who
(36:52):
really wants to start to embracemore of that mindset?
Maybe that's been a stickingpoint for them.
SPEAKER_00 (36:58):
What kind of advice do you have um for exploring um
what's next?
SPEAKER_02 (37:09):
Is that what you're asking?
Yeah for someone who's kind ofmaybe feeling that stuck we were
talking about being stuckearlier being stuck yeah in that
space feeling stuck they're kindof curious about what's next but
then also a little afraid wherewould you suggest you start?
SPEAKER_01 (37:22):
I think I think start with conversations start
talking to people doing workthat interests you pay attention
to what gives you energy somaybe do an assessment on things
that you love doing, don't lovedoing or problems you want to
solve and then where do peopleconsistently seek your help um
(37:43):
with you know those can besignals.
I think I'd also recommendtaking a values assessment
there's a free one that'savailable I took it during um an
aileron uh conscious leadershipprogram.
And that exercise the highestvalue that came up for me was
(38:04):
creativity and it surprised meum at first because you know a
lot of people think of me asanalytical and technical because
of jobs that I've had in thepast being a software developer
at the start of my career.
But you know where I get a lotof energy is when I'm applying
creativity um being able toembrace uh the visionary side of
(38:28):
myself um and and so now I knowthat that aspect has to be a
part of any given job that I'min um and whether that's you
know in the current role I'm init could be also part of my
volunteer work which in the pastI I was spending a lot of time
doing some like social mediadesign um and so that you know
(38:52):
that was enlightening for me andit's like oh yeah I do have a
creative side of my brain thatneeds fulfillment along with a
number of other things but Ithink really getting clear on
your values where you aregetting recharged with energy um
and then turn that insight justinto experimentation, you know,
trying to find something outthere taking a class
(39:14):
volunteering or you know tryingto have that next conversation
on maybe how can I get a role inthat field might be a good place
to start.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
I love it.
That's great.
And I think it's really coolthat you shared that you were
surprised by the creativityaspect.
I think because oftentimes wedon't realize creativity takes
so many different forms.
And I think you again with yourcuriosity and analytical mind
you are a problem solver bynature and I think that's what
creativity can do.
It's not just about art on thewalls or having a big fancy
(39:48):
campaign idea.
Sometimes it's finding creativesolutions within very confined
spaces is kind of I think someof the most valuable creativity
art that we don't really talkabout or celebrate because it's
not the one that's hanging it'snot the things that are hanging
up on walls and frames.
Yes you know yes absolutely so Ilove that I think you are very
creative and I think again youvaluing creativity um and
(40:10):
knowing that needs to be a partof it giving you purpose like
that's such great clarity.
So I agree value assessments arewonderful.
All right we've got one morequestion and then we're gonna
jump into our power round I dowant to make mention to our live
listening audience thank you forjoining us and listening live we
love having you here get to hearall the unedited versions of
everything.
But then also you get to askyour questions.
(40:31):
So again we love the asking ofthe questions so if you have a
question for Shannon drop itinto the chat as we get ready to
wrap up here with the lastquestion plus power round
questions I will keep an eye onthe chat to see if you have
anything that you are curiousabout with Shannon.
And on that note looking at yourcareer through that lens of
curiosity Shannon where is yourcuriosity leading you now and
(40:52):
what are you how are you lettingit guide what comes next for
you?
SPEAKER_01 (40:57):
Yeah so I think when I look at my career I feel like
I feel like I'm in the role Iwas always meant to be in now so
every experience has kind of ledup to this and so uh I say that
but I'm still wearing multiplehats so I'm still juggling this
role and um my previous role.
(41:19):
So my challenge isn't findingsomething to be curious about
it's that there's not enoughhours in the day to pursue
everything that that interestsme.
That's always been the case.
But I feel like there's so muchhappening in the intersection of
AI and human potential and howcan we use technology to
strengthen creativity and deepencollaboration, making work more
(41:41):
meaningful you know we also havesome partnership thing things
happening which are exciting soI'm you know I'm just allowing
my curiosity to to guide metowards those opportunities and
continuing to grow in the therole that I'm in now.
SPEAKER_02 (42:00):
I love it.
That's so fantastic.
All right I don't see anyquestions coming through yet but
I'll keep an eye back over hereI'm gonna jump over to the power
round what skills have youdeveloped in one role that
became unexpectedly valuable inanother I've coached both my
daughters in sports uh over theyears.
SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
And I think you know I originally didn't always apply
that professionally but I thinkit's one of my most valuable
leadership skills um you knowwhether it's navigating AI
change or collaboration um ortrying to apply the right
strategy to a game you know uhasking the right question is
(42:46):
often more powerful than havingthe right answer as we mentioned
before so I think I thinkcoaching has always been oh yeah
so crucial.
SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
I agree I think the best leaders and managers are
coaches first and foremost.
So I agree I think that's afantastic answer.
I love it.
And coaching is the best isn'tit like it just it's so fun.
I think that's my favorite sorewarding it is very rewarding.
SPEAKER_01 (43:08):
When something clicks when something clicks and
they finally get it or they justtry to apply what you've
suggested it's it's it'sincredible.
And you know you learn so muchfrom each each uh kid.
SPEAKER_02 (43:23):
Absolutely and I think that getting the chance to
see them grow and progress likeand I think I was I was getting
ready too that like you know Iwould have girls that I coached
five six years ago you know thatare just in the eighth grade now
and they'll say like hey coachAmy I'm like oh my gosh it's
like my favorite title next tomom here in coach.
Right.
Because they just remember youthey stick with you and to watch
(43:46):
their confidence and theirskills grow.
You know now I'm watching themon the junior high team and I'm
like I coached that kid you knowit just it feels so good.
It's like the most accomplishedamazing feeling ever.
So yeah highly recommend it.
We need more moms out out therein the field coaching too.
Coaching is not just for dads.
Yes.
That's right.
All right.
It looks like we've got aquestion from our live listening
(44:07):
audience.
So I'm going to pop over to thatquestion real quick.
Thanks, Jean, for dropping in.
Um she says hi, I've beenfeeling burnt out and not oh
wait.
I yes I've been feeling burntout and not fulfilled.
While I have tried to pivotpriorities, I'm ultimately
looking for a pivot for uhcareer change.
What would you recommend I dowhen I love my company but not
my role?
(44:28):
Oh great question.
I am looking for an internalrole but do not feel fulfilled
at my current role.
SPEAKER_01 (44:36):
Yeah I mean I think anytime you're happy with where
you're at, you know, from aculture from a company
perspective, I think that's asignal to to expand your network
at where you work, right?
And try to find different peoplein different departments,
understand what they're doing,get curious about what are the
(44:57):
things you'd like to be doing.
Is there anyone that's in asimilar role or is there a new
role or new need that you seethat the company actually needs
and so you know that that's kindof how my role came about.
It was something that Engageneeded at the time and so they
created the role.
(45:19):
And so those things can happen.
So yeah first I would saynetwork but also look at you
know what how could youcontribute differently and where
you're at.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
I love that that's great advice.
It kind of takes me back to likemy very early days.
Thanks for the question Jane.
It looks like you got a littleheart there too Shannon so great
answer.
It does remind me back when Ifirst started out before I was a
creative director and I was justcopywriting.
I was a search copywriter andGod it was a drag.
But I found ways to optimizethat whole process which freed
(45:54):
up my time and there was allthis really awesome affiliate
advertising that was happening.
I was working on Ford at thetime and we had like this all
agency meeting and they werepresenting all this cool work.
They were breaking with allthese celebrities doing all
these cool side projects andpartnerships.
And I was like you know what I II want to do something like
this.
So I literally was like hey Ijust cleared some time off my
(46:15):
calendar how can I contribute tothe next project and I had
talked to my boss afterwards Iwas like hey listen I got really
excited about the affiliategroup and was like yo what can I
do to help and he was likethat's fantastic.
And that's how as a juniorcopywriter I got the opportunity
to basically write and direct anASPN TV spot for Ford.
That's amazing.
Like you just go until you askyou have to ask and you have to
(46:40):
show interest and like you saidcuriosity and passion.
It's not that you're not alignedwith the company or the business
you just want to be able to addvalue where you can add value.
SPEAKER_01 (46:47):
And if you're in the right company and culture like
you said they will applaud thatyou know yes yeah that reminds
me of the Abby Wombach she herleadership book you know she
always advises you know leadfrom where you are you know
don't wait for the role.
Yeah just and that so thatreminds me of kind of what you
did.
(47:08):
You just went out and did whatyou wanted to do.
SPEAKER_02 (47:10):
You didn't wait for the title or the role yeah no
and again had a very wonderfulboss who was like yeah write
this thing and then when it cametime he was the associate
creative director I was likewell are you going to go direct
the shoot he's like no you wroteit go direct it yeah it's
amazing it was very amazing veryvery lucky to have had him as a
(47:30):
you know a mentor and a and achampion really all right Sisha
has a question for you too doesyour advice change at all for
women who are later in theircareer and more mature i.e
mid-50s?
SPEAKER_01 (47:42):
Mid-50s interesting um that's a good question
something that I haven'tconsidered but I yeah I I don't
think it does change you knowI'm one uh one year or actually
a few months away from turning50 myself um so um way too close
(48:03):
but I I it doesn't changebecause I think we can always
grow and and learn differentthings and take on different
responsibilities.
You know I think there are somethere may be some cultural
things that also impact that andyour ability to convince people
that you're ready to change anddo different things but um I
don't let that hold you back.
SPEAKER_02 (48:24):
I agree I love that I agree actually I think that
advice goes even as you'retowards the end of your career,
right?
Because Yeah as you try to kindof find yourself and figure
yourself out I mean there's thisI think there's this point
because I've coached women fromall ages.
In fact a lot of my my clientsthat I've had in the past have
been 50 to 60 and I'm like waita second I I'm just a little bit
(48:46):
behind you but cool.
And I think the the mostimportant thing that they have
learned is that the growth anddevelopment professionally
personally it never stops.
And that doesn't mean it's likea marathon it just means you
always will be evolving.
And even as we do like ourvalues assessment I think even
as you get older your valuesstart to change.
And so you need to almostreassess them even more so and
(49:07):
not assume it's for everythingthat you've had in the past.
Because I think the older we getespecially as women the more we
know ourselves and the lessshits we give about everybody
else and what they think.
Right.
All the more time Trisha to justlean into that advice that
Shannon gave.
I love it.
Thank you again for the questionall right let's go let's go to
the last um question here in thepower round and then I'll keep
(49:29):
an eye on the chat what is onething that you'd wish you'd
known before you um before yourfirst big career pivot uh to
bring your full experiencestrengths passions with you.
SPEAKER_01 (49:43):
Yeah um because they become the foundation for what's
next you know you're neverstarting over over you're you're
moving forward more fully withyour whole self.
SPEAKER_02 (49:55):
I agree I agree I think it's so hard sometimes
we're often encouraged to lookand sound and be a certain way
or have their own like you knowyou need more executive presence
or you need to be lessaggressive.
There's so many things that wehave to like that we're up
against when it comes to feelinglike we can show up wholly and
honestly but I do think again togo back to the age thing that's
(50:17):
the blessing of I think thiscommunity too I think a majority
of our members are 40 and overand it just is circumstantial in
the way that things have evolvedover the years.
Not to say that we don't havejunior professionals but I think
there's just something wonderfulabout being in a room of women
who really know what it is likeout there.
They've got ears under theirbelt they're not holding back
(50:37):
from sharing the really reals umand they really know what they
want to need.
They just need a space to kindof practice that voice and that
confidence you know and theability to continue to want to
learn without feelingirrelevant.
So love it.
Great questions ladies thank youso much we appreciate you.
All right friends that is whatwe've got for you today.
Thank you everyone forlistening.
(50:58):
Shannon thank you so much forshowing us that career pivots
are powered by curiosity and notfear and that the people around
us are what really matter everystep of the way to everyone
watching this is what ourcommunity is built on women like
Shannon who have walked the pathand are generously lighting the
way for others if you want tokeep learning from amazing
leaders like Shannon connectwith us togetherindigital.com
(51:19):
join us for more Power Loungesessions, expert masterclasses,
peer groups, access to communitywomen who truly understand your
journey Shannon, I can think ofsomeone better to have started
this whole series with so thankyou so much for volunteering.
I really appreciate it.
Oh thank you so much Amy I adoreyou all right goes both ways
(51:39):
girlfriend all right everyonethat's all we've got for you now
enjoy the rest of your Friday wehope to see you next week until
then keep asking keep giving andkeep growing produced by
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