March 23, 2026 • 54 mins
Welcome to this week’s episode of The Power Lounge, where authentic conversations reveal the real power behind the stories of remarkable women in business. Hosted by Amy Vaughan, chief empowerment officer at Together Digital, today’s episode dives deep into the often-overlooked gap between women’s contributions in B2B sales and how they’re actually recognized, compensated, and promoted.
Our guest, Lori Richardson, founder of Score More Sales and president of Women Sales Pros, joins us to share her journey from a young, single mother entering tech sales in the 1980s to a force for change in the industry. Lori is also the award-winning host of Conversations with Women in Sales and author of She Sells, a guide for leaders to recruit, retain, and elevate women in sales and leadership—not just women, but their allies, too.
In this episode, Amy Vaughan and Lori Richardson tackle the reality of pay inequity, negotiation tactics, mentorship versus sponsorship, the impact of AI on sales roles, and why “sales skills are life skills.” Lori shares insights from her Sales Decades Project, honoring female trailblazers, and offers practical advice for leaders and women aspiring to grow in sales.
Get ready for candid stories, practical wisdom, and inspiration to help you ask for what you deserve, build your influence, and climb higher—together.
Key Takeaways
From Challenge to Champion
Sales Skills = Life Skills
Beyond the Paycheck—Ask for What You Deserve
Mentors and Sponsors Matter
Strategic Volunteering Wins
The Power of Allies
Celebrate Progress, Keep Climbing
Chapters
00:00 - Introduction
00:10 "Women in B2B Sales"
05:50 "Turning Point After Struggles"
09:38 "Sales Skills Are Life Skills"
12:21 "Find Good Leaders, Equality Matters"
15:48 Women Underrepresented in Sales Leadership
17:16 Gender Pay Disparity Insights
20:14 "Ask, Receive, $60,000 Raise"
26:04 Mentorship vs. Sponsorship Insights
28:42 "Proactive Self-Promotion at Work"
31:58 "Anger Inspires Sales Role Models"
34:27 "Turning Anger into Opportunity"
38:08 Unpaid Labor and Workplace Inequity
41:46 "Temporary Leadership and Growth"
44:12 Women, Sales, and Adapting to AI
49:13 "Al Martin: Pacing Sales Guru"
50:45 "Strategic Negotiation Pays Off"
53:12 "Join Together Digital Community"
53:48 - Outro
Quotes
“Celebrate your wins, share your power, and don’t hold back from asking for what you deserve—because when one of us wins, we all win.”- Amy Vaughan
“Go where you’re celebrated, not tolerated. Be strategic, be visible, and always negotiate for your value—because being seen starts with you showing up.”- Lori Richardson
Connect with Lori Richardson
Website:https://www.scoremoresales.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scoremoresales/
Call To Action:
Attend the Sales Decades Event
Interested in attending the Sales Decades Project event in Dallas?
Reference this episode for an extended early bird price!
📅 April 22nd – Reception (recognizing nominees)
📅 April 23rd – Day of learning (sales, leadership, mentorship)
📍 University of Texas Dallas, Sales Excellence Program
Details available via Score More Sales Website or connect directly with Lori via LinkedIn.
Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast:https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/
Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visiting Home - Together Digital
Produced by Heartcast Media:
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn, and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer at Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choosewho work in digital and choose
to share their knowledge, power,and connections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:32):
And today's conversation is oneI've been looking forward to
because we're going somewhere alot of people dance around, but
rarely go directly.
The gap between women'scontributions in B2B sales and
how they're actually seen,compensated, and promoted.
Today, our guest Lori Richardsonis the founder of Score More
(00:53):
Sales, a top B2B sales strategyfirm helping mid-market leaders
solve real revenue problems fromhiring and retention to building
inclusive, high-performing salesteams.
She's also the president ofWomen's Sales Pros, a community
she founded in 2015 when shenoticed that nearly every single
manager was trained and coachingthat was training and coaching,
(01:15):
she was training and coachingwas a male.
That moment of clarity launcheda movement.
And Lori is now also the authorof She Sells, a book dedicated
to helping companies recruit,retain, and promote more women
into sales and leadership.
She is also the host of theaward-winning podcast,
Conversations with Women inSales, and Salesforce has named
her a top sales influencer forfive years running, which is so
(01:38):
awesome, from 2021 to 2025.
Her latest initiative, the SalesDecades Project, is documenting
and honoring women who quietlyshaped the B2B sales industry
for decades.
Women who deserve to be named,celebrated, and studied.
Lori, uh Lori's story is deeplypersonal, which we love here,
right?
We love to get vulnerable.
(01:59):
We love to get real.
We love to talk about thechallenges and help each other
navigate through them.
She entered tech sales as ayoung single mother in the
mid-1980s and went from minimumwage to a six-figure income.
Go, Lori.
She is uh spent her careermaking sure that more women
succeed in that same path.
Lori, we're so excited to haveyou here in the Power Lounge.
(02:21):
Thanks for joining us today.
Thanks, Amy.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
Absolutely.
All right, we're gonna just jumpright in.
Um hello to our live listeningaudience.
We are always glad when you joinus to listen live, members,
non-members, drop yourquestions, drop your comments
into the chat.
I'll be keeping an eye on thoseas I interview and talk with
(02:41):
Lori.
We want to know what you want toknow.
That's why we have theseconversations.
So if you have a question, youhave a comment, drop it in the
chat.
I promise you we will get to itduring the show.
But let's start with your start,Lori.
Um, as a young single mom in the80s, looking for a role that
could support your family, whatwas it about B2B sales that that
(03:02):
clicked for you?
And when did you realize thatthis was the path that you
wanted to help other women findas well?
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because I I grew up
in a family-run business.
So my grandmother, who we calledMimi, had a retail women's
apparel store.
Yeah, I grew up in Seattle, andshe had, it wasn't just a store.
I mean, it was upscale.
It was very classy, you know,really nice stuff.
(03:32):
And she had this incrediblecustomer base and clientele of
good, regular, ongoing uhcustomers.
And I learned so much from her,although I I didn't think I was
there to learn anything.
You know, I was just justhanging out most of the mostly.
And then I started working forher.
And but I wanted to become ateacher, so I got out of high
(03:55):
school early because I wasbored, and I got my first degree
and my associate's degree inearly childhood education by the
time I was 18.
So when my friends weregraduating, you know, I'm way
ahead of the game.
Oops, but then I got pregnant,married, divorced, and
sidetracked a little bit.
And suddenly my childcare uhworking in um with kids who were
(04:20):
mostly under five, five yearsold, I loved it so much.
It was so great.
And I worked at the Universityof Washington with international
students, kids, but I couldn'tsupport my family.
And so I thought I'm gonna findsomething that's non-traditional
that my male peers are makingthe same money because as a head
(04:42):
of household, why shouldn't Imake the same?
So that's what I set out to do,and I didn't research and I went
to through a program where Ilearned all sorts of different
non-traditional jobs for women.
And then the guy came in to talkabout technology.
And when that happened, Ithought just somehow it came to
me.
(05:02):
This was not a big grand plan,mind you.
It just some voice said to me,you know, what if you sold
technology?
And so I was able to get inafter many, many tries, lots of
resumes applied all over town.
I got a role as uh as asalesperson in a computer store,
(05:23):
basically.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
I love that story.
Thank you so much for sharingit.
I I honestly cannot imagine whatthat must have been like.
You know, graduating from schoolyounger, you know, getting
pregnant young, getting divorcedyoung, going through all of that
and then still having like theclarity for yourself to trust
that intuition and say, oh, likethis is the thing, and not just
(05:47):
see like the roadblocks, but seethe opportunity in that.
I think that that's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Yeah, I mean, I just there had to be a better way.
I knew there had to be a betterway, and I I didn't want to be
hand-to-mouth.
And what had happened, one ofthe things that happened is I
got in a car accident on my wayto buy my son a pair of shoes,
and I totaled my car, and I Iactually didn't have car
insurance back then because itwasn't required, and I was just
(06:16):
scraping by.
And you know, it just changedeverything that I realized.
Yeah, I have to have morestability.
It just hit me young, probablybecause I'm the youngest in my
family.
And so I I've seen, you know,I'd seen a lot of other things.
But yeah, it was definitely aturning point.
And I started on straightcommission in my sales job.
(06:36):
I didn't make a penny.
I had a guarantee for about twomonths, and then it was all me.
So I had to learn how to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Wow, that's a gauntlet right there, like on
all ends and all sides.
But it is fascinating how likesometimes those lowest points,
those lowest moments are themoments you're like, I just
gotta get up and figure thisout.
So fast forward to 2015, nowyou're training other sales
managers, and you look aroundthe room and you're like, wait a
(07:06):
second, it's all dudes.
That realization came, becamewomen uh sales pros.
What do you think about that gapthat is uh set about the
industry then?
And how was it then and and howhas it or hasn't it changed
since the 80s?
SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
Yeah, I I just posted about it today on my
LinkedIn, actually.
I wrote an article, a long formarticle, and I think about this
all the time.
You know, every year it's it'sWomen's History Month, it's
International Women's Day, andOctober is Women in Sales Month,
and and so I'm always wonderingwhat's changed, what's
(07:46):
different, how can I make animpact, how can I how can I say
something differently?
And and what I realized in 2015,it like it felt like the 1980s
because I actually had morewomen that I worked with back
then.
And my first job, I had a goodmix of men and women.
We were having a blast, we wereall young, there was no big
(08:07):
issues, everybody made the samemoney.
But then it was my next role uhand subsequent sales roles that
I started to see pay inequity,um, just you know, being passed
over, not being heard, and and alot of those things.
And it just surprised me when Iwalked into this room full of
(08:28):
about a hundred managers, thatabout 90 some of them were men.
And I know that women are goodin leadership, and I know women
can be really good in sales.
Um, not sales is not foreveryone for sure, but women can
just kill it, as they say, youknow, and really succeed.
And I just was so surprised thatit it hadn't changed in in that
(08:52):
that was a telecom industry.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
Ooh, telecom.
I was a telemarketer for all oflike three months, and it was
the worst job of my life.
But I will tell you that itreally taught me how to just
kind of go for it, you know, andthen get past the uncertainty,
get past the lack of confidencebecause you have a quota.
And like you said, you'reworking on commission.
(09:18):
And so it really pushes you outof your comfort zone.
And, you know, and it's noteasy.
You're right, and it's not foreverybody.
But I think what it taught mewas that that assertiveness and
that confidence as I continue togrow and build it and get more
comfortable with like my scriptand the approach and managing
different types of people.
Um, you know, it's kind of it'skind of like it's like you're
(09:38):
you're learning the game, youknow, and it's kind of
interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah, and sales skills, sales skills are life
skills.
And and so I feel like there'sno downside for a woman in
particular, women are men, butin particular women, to spend
two years in a sales rolebecause the first year can be
tough.
But once you master things andonce you get a handle on how
(10:01):
things work and the ebbs andflows and things like that, and
deal with if you're able to dealwith rejection, um, it it it's
such an amazing career.
And all of the lessons apply tolife.
So if you want to go on and andstart your own business, for
example, you're gonna be thefirst salesperson.
(10:21):
And so you better know how tosell.
And many business people, peoplestart businesses all the time.
Founders start, they don't knowthe first thing about sales.
Those are companies that we workwith sometimes.
And so, um, and and if you justwant to stay in corporate and
climb the corporate ladder atvarious companies, you get you
use those sales skills for thattoo.
(10:42):
So it's it's a really good setof skills to learn, even if you
just use it professionally orwith your kids or your family,
you know, in terms of whereyou're going for vacation.
And all those things have to do,you know, there there are ways
that you can help influence umthe outcome.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Yeah, that's great.
I love that sound bite.
Uh sales skills are life skills.
It's absolutely true because ittakes all that, it takes
confidence, it takesnegotiation, it takes
self-awareness.
Yeah, a lot of those things.
Um, no, I mentioned earlier inyour intro about your book, She
Sells.
Um, and it's addressed to bothcompany and sales leaders, and
(11:20):
not just women.
So I was curious, like, why didyou make that choice
specifically?
And what was the most commonblind spot that you see in
leaders who think they arebuilding inclusive sales teams,
but maybe aren't?
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
Yeah, so she sells was really the book with all the
answers that I was giving tomostly to leaders who were
mostly men.
So that that book actually isfor men more than women.
Um, anyone in leadership, a lotof the women know that we need
more women.
And most women hire more womenthan men do and are more diverse
(11:56):
in terms of their thinking andbuilding inclusive teams.
So it was really written to mento say, hey, here's how you can
do a better job at finding morediverse candidates.
Here's how you can, you know,put them through the process to
recruit, and then here's how youcan onboard in a better way.
(12:17):
So it was a lot of different um,it was really my answers to all
these one-on-one conversations Ihad with leaders over the years
and and just put it in a book.
Um, how has it changed?
I I feel like, you know, thereare some companies that do it
really well, and there are abunch that don't.
And so at least people have thechoice now to find those good
(12:42):
companies and find, I say findthe good leaders.
If if you're gonna report tosomeone, you want to work for
someone who wants your bestinterest, who wants you to grow
and improve, who wants you tohave the same pay as your male
counterpart.
All those things are reallyimportant because the the latest
stats from 2024 show that womenare still not paid equally, even
(13:06):
in a sales role where there'scommissions involved, because
it's the salaries that are notset the same.
It happened to me in the 80s andit continued.
Um, you know, I once you'reyou're down lower, you you don't
ever get ahead.
That's the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
No, that's great.
I love that.
And I am so with you there.
I mean, it's obviously like youcan't just preach to the choir.
And I'm all about empoweringwomen, but I also think you need
to empower the allies.
And I think a lot of men holdback from doing that because
they don't feel like they havethe information, insight, data,
or even the ability to have theempathy, not saying they're not
empathetic, it's just they don'thave the lived experience.
(13:47):
And so I think if they'rewilling to sit and hear that, go
ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
Yeah, and and there's such a societal
influence.
For example, just the book beingcalled She Sells, a lot of men
thought that it's for women.
And so I had CEOs that said, Oh,I'm gonna give this to all the
women on my sales team.
And I was like, You didn'tsubtitle.
Read the subtitle.
It's for you, man.
Right.
So it's so that was funny to me,and uh, maybe not so funny, but
(14:14):
but it it holds true.
It it holds true.
And and so the event that I'mdoing in April, it's I don't use
the word women in it, if younotice, because I don't want to
disenfranchise half thepopulation who thinks it's not
for them, because we have bothwomen and men attending.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I love that.
I think that that's the rightapproach this day and age, and
given where we are, I thinkthat's gonna be the thing that
helps move the needle forward.
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
Because we're recognizing women doesn't mean
that men won't appreciate it andlearn from it.
And and what I'm excited aboutis that a lot of uh we have 50
university students in salesprograms that are attending, and
probably half are men.
So that's really good for thoseyoung men growing up.
SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
I love it.
That's great.
Yeah, gotta raise them right.
Awesome.
Let's talk about you mentionedearlier the compensation and
unequal pay in sales and howit's a real undocumented problem
across a multitude ofindustries, but let's keep it
focused on sales.
What are the patterns you seeand what do you tell women who
suspect they're being underpaidbut aren't sure how to approach
(15:18):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Well, it's interesting.
I I like to follow the data.
I don't like to just throw outnumbers and stats, and there's a
lot of bad stats about pay.
Uh, you know, it's hard,particularly sales, because the
government used to do some kindof tracking, but there were a
lot of retail jobs that weremixed in.
What I I have looked to asurvey, a couple things.
(15:41):
One is Gartner did someresearch, they haven't updated
it in a few years, but Gartnerhas had some really good
research about about women insales and good stats.
But there's a company calledExactly, um, and they have a
tool that helps calculatecommissions and things like
that, that people use aplatform.
And what they found that um Ithink the last time it was done
(16:07):
was 2024, and they found that umthe research showed that women
are significantlyunderrepresented, can
constituting only 30% of the I'msorry, 34% of the sales force
and 29% of sales managers.
Now, the further you go upbeyond sales managers to to VPs
(16:30):
of sales and chief revenueofficers, it gets less and less
oxygen up there for women.
So it's a it's a much, muchsmaller amount.
And this hasn't changed a wholelot over the years, which is
sad.
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
The stats are usually eitherabysmal and or questionable, but
nonetheless, the the moreaccurate, the the less like
dehar disheartening they are.
Um, okay, so when it comes tolike approaching the
conversation, I think that'sanother thing, right?
I think as women, we're notconditioned to talk about money,
(17:06):
um, which is hard because it itsales is nothing but money,
right?
How might someone go abouthaving that conversation if they
feel like they're being poorlyor undercompensated?
Like, where do you even begin?
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
Well, I think just understanding the stats.
So again, on average, men earn3.5% more than women as
salespeople.
Um, and when they adjust outsidefactors, men earn 9% more than
women as salespeople.
And that's base, like basesalary, fixed pay, as they would
(17:39):
call it.
And so it's really important tounderstand when when there's a
job offer to know that you knowthat what they base it on.
Like it's anytime you'renegotiating, it's good to know
how where did you get thatnumber from, or how did you base
that number?
And and I think that's a fairquestion.
And then um, I'm just a realstickler because I know that at
(18:02):
least two or three times in mycareer I I was not paid the same
as my male counterparts.
So even today, even as uh athought leader, when someone
asked me if I would contributeto an article or you know,
something on a website, I wantto know well, are is anyone else
(18:23):
getting paid to do this if I'myou know, if I'm volunteering my
time and and IP, is anyone elsegetting paid?
And that's my first question.
And so I'm I'm gonna find out.
And and I think it's importantfor women to know if they're
getting uh a you know a fairsalary.
And also if if you're in a salesrole, it's kind of upon you to
(18:46):
ask for more because it itdemonstrates w what you're
thinking about when if yourcustomer is going to ask for a
discount or something, forexample, to be able to be
comfortable to talk aboutnumbers and to see what's fair
and to see what's what's what acompany is able to do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
That's a great point, Lori.
I never thought about that.
The fact that you negotiatingyour salary and the terms and
the benefits of your job is isyou is you demonstrating your
skills to do the job.
I love it.
I love it.
And like you said, just theasking.
I mean, uh, we once were doingan event and for Together
(19:24):
Digital, and we had a panel, itwas funny, and it was a
conversation about negotiationand whatnot.
And and we, you know, had acouple of guys attending the
event, and we always love tohear from them and what they
have to say.
And and one of the guys kind oftowards the end, you know,
somebody had made an ask aboutspecific negotiation, and he's
like, ask for the no.
(19:45):
You know, the worst they can sayis no.
And that was like, what?
So simple, but made a lot ofsense.
It took a lot of the pressureand the overthinking off.
And then the other thing waswhen it was several years ago
now, one of our members stood upand shared that she had learned
that one of her coworkers whowent to the same college as her,
got the same degree as her,started at the company the same
(20:07):
week as her, in the same role,just a different client, was
making more than her.
And she didn't say how muchmore, but she really wanted to
know how to approach the topic.
And so the advice from thegroup, because we kind of do
this whole ask and give exchangething, was you know, just go to
your boss and ask, do wepractice pay equity here?
And if so, how does my salarycompare to, let's say, oh, I
(20:30):
don't know, this guy that I workwith who does the exact same job
with the exact same degree fromthe exact same college?
And the boss man's like, yeah,you know, let me look into that.
Comes back to her not even amonth later and is like, okay,
so we're gonna give you a raise.
And she, Lori, she got a$60,000a year raise.
(20:51):
Not 16, not$6,000,$60,$6,000.
Yeah, ridiculous.
Five figures of a raise.
Because that's how much she wasgetting underpaid.
Incredible.
Incredible.
But we don't know if we don'task.
And we don't have to go likecharging in and making like I
love that that was the advicefrom the community was like,
(21:12):
don't go charging in and beingaccusatory.
Be curious, ask the questionsand then wait for the answers.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
Yeah.
And then also, if sometimespeople say, Oh, everybody starts
at the same level, you know, itthis is how we hire.
I heard that from a big companyrecently, not recently, but a
while ago.
But but but the men willnegotiate, uh, but I need to
have a week off at Christmas, orI can't start for another, you
know, or I need this or that.
(21:39):
And they get all these, youknow, all these things added in
that we don't think about.
And and another example forwomen is I know a woman who came
back from maternity leave andshe really wanted a bigger
salary, but she really wantedflexible more of a flexible
schedule.
So she said, I chose theflexible schedule and went to
bat for the That and she goes,turns out I could have had both.
(22:02):
Oh, right.
You don't get what you don't askfor.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Just assume.
Just assume I can only have one,right?
That's too much.
It's not scarcity mindset, whichI do believe is again a lot of
social conditioning.
But it you're right.
I think one of my other favoritestories.
Go ahead.
No first.
SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
But Amy, you know, it's also about, oh, if she's
asking, you know, she's one ofthose women that just, you know,
asks for this.
It's hard to be a woman inbusiness because you're either
too aggressive, you're notaggressive enough, you know,
you're you're this.
It's and we have examples ofevery each end of the spectrum,
and and finding that middleground is really tricky.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
It is.
Yeah, there is no winningbecause 100%.
I was just getting ready toshare a story with a guy that um
I worked with a while back whowas a global strategist who came
from a large agency to ourMidwest, you know, mid-sized
agency.
And he was talking about thethings he negotiated.
Like he didn't want to have acar while he was living here.
He was living kind of in thedowntown area, close to the
(23:02):
agency, but not close enoughthat it was like a good for him
to walk every day.
So he negotiated a new bicyclefor himself.
He also negotiated a nap everyday.
I was like, what?
It's just so wild.
But he's like, but these are thethings that are my
non-negotiables.
These are the things that matterto me.
And, you know, at the end of theday, the company's like, well,
yeah.
And I'm sure again, he getswalking in with his credentials
(23:24):
and his white dudeness.
And I mean, he was just a littleto tell the guy too.
But like, yeah, he made themoney too.
He got the bike, he got thenaps, and he made the money.
But you would just never thinkto ask for those kinds of
things, but you are exactlyright.
Uh there's a there's a lot ofthings.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
If they tell you no, you know, so what?
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's what negotiation is.
It's a little bit of a danceuntil you kind of find that that
rhythm, those steps that makesense for the both of you.
Um and if it's meant to be,yeah, 100% it'll meant to be.
I think that whole like uh it'shard right now though, too,
right, Lori, because that jobmarket is a no-joke right now.
Yeah, it is.
So everyone's feeling a littledesperate.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
We're all feeling a little desperate.
The employer has the upper handnow for sure, but this is why
now more than ever, no matterwhat, you still have to find a
company where you know it'sethical and you know, you you
believe in the products andservices, you like the you can
stand behind the company, andyou're gonna learn from your
boss.
(24:23):
I mean, if at the very least youdon't want someone that's not
gonna support you, and there areplenty of those people out
there, unfortunately now thatpeople have learned that a lot
of people have learned they cando bad behavior now and get away
with it because that's what theysee exhibited all over the place
these times.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, they're seeing thateverywhere.
Yeah, I feel that.
All right.
So another thing that comes intoplay when it comes to moving up
and moving through the ranks ofsales, you know, mentorship and
sponsorship, those of those comeup a lot in conversations about
women's advancement, but they'renot exactly the same thing.
Um, what's the difference?
(25:03):
And which one do you think womenin B2B sales specifically need
the most right now?
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Well, I think we need both.
Um, you can have both, so youdon't have to pick.
But um the difference is thatmentorship is someone who can do
skills better than me that I Iwant to learn from.
So for example, uh I might go tofinance and and check with the
the head of finance or even theCFO if they'll if they have time
(25:33):
to talk to me to show me how youknow how finances work in in a
business.
Uh a PL statement, for example.
A lot of people don't know that.
And those are important thingsthat AI, you know, AI can
explain it, but they can't umleverage it in with a
conversation with yourprospective customer.
(25:55):
So being able to learn specificskills and then to go to someone
and say, I I really need tolearn, or I'd really like to
learn about a PL PL statement.
Could you help me with that forover lunch or you know, an hour
or so, so that when I'm askingfor someone to mentor me, it's
(26:15):
not like an open-ended, wouldyou be my mentor?
You know, and it's like, well,what does that mean?
How long does it last?
What do I have to do?
And and you be ready as amentee, you be ready to come to
someone saying, Here are thequestions that I have, and make
it easy for the mentor to dothat.
So that's that's mentorship isvery important because you can
(26:38):
learn all different things thatyou don't know already.
And then the other issponsorship, and and a sponsor
is someone who has power in thecompany who can speak about you
when you're not in the room.
We know those thoseconversations happen all the
time.
Uh, when you're not in thehighest echelon at an
(26:58):
organization, people are youknow talking about what if we
did this and what if we movedso-and-so, and what if we got
rid of these people?
And so the sponsor is the onethat says, you know, Amy is just
as good as Bob, you know, whydon't you look at Amy too?
And and that's uh invaluable.
I mean, it it's it's just if youdon't have that, it can be your
(27:22):
demise.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Oh, 100%.
And I think it's like thebiggest power move that you know
allies can make is you know,speaking the names of of the
women who are the the folks whoare not in the room.
That's they I don't think peoplewill really acknowledge how much
power that is.
And it doesn't require anythingof you, honestly.
It just shows you that you'reputting your, you know, belief
(27:47):
and um recommendation behindsomeone.
And if you believe in them andthey deserve it, like why why
wouldn't you?
And that requires no money fromyou.
That requires no time for you.
And as long as you're willing toput your, you know, a little bit
of your reputation out there andbetting on this person, then
like why wouldn't you?
You know?
Yeah, it looks like you're gonnasay something else.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (28:06):
Yeah, the best way that you can get a sponsor is
not again not to ask, will yoube my sponsor?
Because nobody wants to do that.
That's a lot of responsibility,but you you do extra work or a
special project for this personor where there's visibility.
Because the issue we don'trealize, and and this is
(28:28):
notoriously ongoing issues forwomen, is that we get out of
college, in college, we workedreally hard, we did extra
credit, put our head down, workreally hard, then we go to the
company, work really hard, putour head down, and we just wait
to get tapped on the shoulder,and that doesn't happen.
That isn't how it works.
So, what what you need to do ismake sure that not just your
(28:50):
boss knows what you're doing,but somehow your boss's boss,
and maybe someone in ahorizontal role, and you're out
there and you're mixing and youknow the people so that people
start going, hey that Amy, she'spretty sharp.
Maybe she could help with thisother project.
And and that's how you you don'tleave it to your boss to talk
you up at all.
(29:11):
And keep track of it, even writeit down at the end of every
week, either digitally or in anotebook or something, the
things that you accomplish,because you'd be surprised.
I I'm still surprised when Ithink about what I did, you
know, the in the first quarterof this year, for example.
My brain's on to the next thing,and I'm not going, oh, but we
did this one really great thing,too.
(29:33):
So it's a good way to patyourself on the back.
And then if you're up for apromotion or if you're
considering a move or you know,going to another organization,
have all that listed out so youcan just go down and it's not
personal, it's not bragging,it's like these are the things I
accomplished.
Yeah.
It's facts.
It's facts.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
I love that.
Yeah, to me it is.
It's celebration and umrelationships.
Um I love that.
We have a member in Austin whoalways talks about her to-da
folder.
She doesn't focus on just herto-dos, she gets her to-da's
done as well.
Because exactly what you saidthere, Lori, where it's like we
(30:14):
kind of just move through thatlist because I think we're all
kind of hardwired to beproductive and we think
productive equals value versuslike our innate skills and
talents alone.
It's like, how many items can Icheck off the list today?
You know, and instead, when youpause and look at your ta-da's
and you record those, like yousaid, those aren't just like
made up things, those are facts.
(30:36):
And one, you deserve tocelebrate them.
And and two, like again, youneed to use them and leverage
them as you negotiate, workthrough the ranks.
And then the other is likereputation, right?
Celebration and reputation.
Those are the two things I wasgonna kind of call on.
And reputation does come fromthe relations, like you said,
with the sponsor.
You can't just be like, yo, bemy sponsor.
(30:56):
It is, it is earned, like yousaid.
It is something that requiresyou to show up consistently, you
know, and and show that you areare worth, you know, somebody
sticking your neck out for.
And that really just requiresyou to be good at your job, show
up, you know, do itsuccessfully.
And then, like you said, not nothold back from saying, look what
I did, and I just did it well,and not in a braggy way, um, but
(31:19):
also still have all the uhconfidence of a mediocre white
man named Chad, as we like tosay here within TD.
Um, but yeah, talk about it.
Humble brag.
We have a whole channel on ourtogether digital slack that is
just about wins.
We want to condition our womento be more, you know, pro
approposed to of sharing thatwin.
And we want to celebrate withthem because when we hear
(31:40):
somebody else is winning, thatjust means we're all winning.
And that's what we love to hearand see.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Love that.
Um, let's talk a little bitabout your sales decades
project.
I mentioned this earlier as wellin the opening.
What inspired it?
And what have you discoveredabout these women's stories that
has surprised or moved you?
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Well, what inspired it was me getting angry.
So I and I don't get angry veryoften, but what was happening is
I I've noticed a couple of mygood friends and colleagues and
who I have called mentors umstepping down from being
involved in sales.
One retired and then one um justsaid, you know, I'm gonna, I
(32:23):
want to do other things.
And and they just, you know,kind of left the face of the
scene, like on LinkedIn andelsewhere.
And I heard two differentconversations with two different
people telling women who are insales roles that they need more
female role models.
And I just thought, wow, but youdon't know Trish, and you don't
(32:45):
know Jill, and you don't knowSiobhan, and you don't know some
of these other women that I knowwho are incredible.
And and if you're 20 or 25getting into say to a sales
role, and you're female or malefor that matter, because the
guys can learn a lot from thesewomen too, there's incredible
(33:05):
amounts of knowledge.
And these women, women tend tojust move on, you know.
We don't need to have a websitecontinue, you know, they shut
their website down very often.
They they don't re-publish theirbooks or make workbooks, or you
know, and men don't tend tothink that way.
It's like, ooh, I could havesome passive revenue.
(33:27):
Let me build that up.
And and my women friends arejust moving on.
So I thought we need a way tocapsulize who these women are.
You said it really well in theintroduction.
I love the words that you chose.
Um, but these are trailblazersand these are women that helped
take um, you know, take businessfrom being manual to being
(33:48):
digital, and and it's prettycool.
You know, it's pretty cool withsome of the stories that we've
heard and we're gonna be sharingover the next six months online.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Yeah, that's so exciting.
I am thrilled to hear thatyou're doing this because yeah,
I attended the 3% conferencethat was started by Kat Gordon
in 2012.
It was like the initial launchof it.
And at the time it was becausethe call to 3% conference,
because only 3% of creativedirectors were women.
And I was an associate creativedirector with in a small agency
working on beauty clients, ofcourse, with one other female
(34:19):
creative director.
And we were the only two.
And so I was like such a strangething for me to be like, oh,
wait, like I'm an anomaly?
I did not even know this.
Um, but I love what you said.
I agree with you.
I think some of the bestbusiness ideas come from anger,
especially from women, right?
Because there are problems inthe world that can be fixed.
And then also, like, so anger isthe opportunity, and then you
(34:43):
have to take the opportunity andthen maximize it, like you were
saying.
Make that website, create thosebooks, and create the workbooks
and spin off the podcast.
Like, we are strategic people,right?
We know how to make a dollarstretch, you know, how to get
the most out of like theplanning and the time and all
this stuff.
It's like, why would you not dothat with an opportunity as
well?
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so the idea is that we'refocusing on the 1980s this year
and next year.
We've already secured uh uh thesame space and we're going to do
the 1990s.
So when we started in the 1990s,a little younger, and um, and
there's a whole I already have alist of them because they I had
(35:24):
to check, you know, and find outwhat did you sell in the 80s?
No, no, I sold in the 90s.
Okay, well, you'll be next year.
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Gotta wait till next year.
That's right.
Well, tell folks a little bitwhere they can find out more
about this event and where itis.
SPEAKER_02 (35:36):
Yeah, so we're having actual in-person events
in Dallas at University of TexasDallas, which is they have a
wonderful sales excellenceprogram there.
And it is April 22nd in theevening, is a reception where
we're recognizing all of the umpeople that we've nominated.
And then the next day is a dayof learning.
(35:59):
So it's all about sales,leadership, and mentorship on uh
all day long on the the 23rd ofApril.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:07):
Yeah, and we still have tickets, and if anyone
references this show, I would behappy to honor that early bird
price.
So love it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Ah, I love it.
Thank you for that.
That's great.
We will make sure we includesome of that information as well
in the show notes.
All right, I'm taking extranotes too because Lori, you're
giving me so many ideas.
So many ideas.
I love this.
All right, let's talk about,let's see, for women who are
currently individualcontributors in sales roles that
want to move into a leadershiprole.
(36:39):
Um, what's the advice that youfind yourself giving most often
that maybe they're not alreadyhearing?
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Yeah, well, first find ways to get good
self-awareness so that you knowwhere your strengths are and and
if you're, you know, what you'relacking in.
We're all lacking in differentareas, and and start thinking of
ways to work on it.
I always thought of myself as alifelong learner.
So I wanted to learn everythingI could about communication, I
(37:08):
wanted to learn aboutnegotiation, I wanted to learn
about um anything that involvedthat was connected to selling.
And so that is one thing that Iwould do.
And then I would take on aproject or two, not everything,
don't be the volunteer that doeseverything for everybody, but
take on a project that could behigh visibility within the
(37:33):
organization, and you end upbecoming a leader without the
title yet.
And so I like that strategy, andthen you work into getting the
title and the pay increase.
Um, to me, that's one of thebest, especially in a time like
this where people are notoffering raises maybe, or you
know, quick to promote, um, butto have have a plan and and help
(37:59):
be helpful first, lead withthat, and then and the the rest
usually should follow, but notalways, because some people get
stuck helping everybody witheverything.
And I'm not I'm not recommendingthat.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
No, I love that.
Putting that line in the sand isso important, Lori, because I
think a lot of us do we'll burnourselves out with doing all of
the work work at work, and thenwe'll do the emotional labor at
work.
We'll be the ones to plan andhost the holiday parties at
work.
But then I'm like, why are youdoing this?
No man would ever agree to dothis kind of voluntary work.
(38:32):
Like, unless your plan is tomove into an event planner and
coordinator and you want to showthose skills there, like why?
Why would you take on unpaidlabor in addition to the work
that you're probably alreadygetting underpaid for?
This is also like, I'm justgonna soapbox for like a half
second and then I'll get off it,I promise.
But this is really where I getrah about like ERGs, which
(38:55):
honestly, unfortunately, a lotof those have started to kind of
fade and go away.
There's no funding.
But then also, I think womenjust got tired of trying to fix
a problem they didn't create.
And so, like, you have theseemployee resource groups that
are for LGBTQIA and people ofcolor and women, and we're all
sitting here scratching ourheads going, like, but we didn't
make this problem.
And you but company, you want usto make you all feel like you're
(39:17):
doing the right things and makeother people like us feel more
seen and heard.
Like, no, no, that's your job asthe company to do, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And that's what I I tell womenthat too when they say, I'm not
really happy in my role, I don'tfeel respected, I don't, you
know, I I I don't feel like theyreally are glad I'm here.
And I say, Well, it's on them tomake you feel that.
Well, it's you know, if youdon't feel it, you should be out
opening your eyes and seeingwhat else is out there because
(39:46):
they're not going to change,most likely.
And and it's not up to you toget them to change, it's on
them.
And if if they're not, you know,if they're not making it a
welcoming place where, you know,um it's it's just not worth it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Yeah.
Well, because it's not just apaycheck.
It's like it's like that's likea relationship, right?
If you came home to somebodythat never acknowledged you,
that never showed appreciation,that never gave you your dues,
would you be like, I I have tostay?
I mean, sometimes, yeah, we dobecause we have to learn.
Yeah.
But like at the same time, it'slike, golly, like in that sense
(40:25):
of a relationship, I mean, justbecause they're cutting you a
paycheck doesn't mean they won'tcut you because you are a
number.
And it's not that I don't wantto see people loyal to where
they work, but I think I've seena lot of women die on some
pretty big hills and put a lotof their career on the line.
SPEAKER_02 (40:40):
My saying that I love is is go where you're
celebrated, not tolerated.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
Oh, I like that one.
I'm gonna put that one away inmy back pocket for later.
Why put up with toleration?
You know?
Oh, and I love that.
But I will say quickly one morething on the volunteering,
because I think it's important.
Like we've painted this pictureof let's not maybe go over here
and overextend ourselves, but bestrategic in your volunteering.
And I think I'm a great exampleof that.
(41:06):
Honestly, um, I started as amember of this organization and
a president of a local boardchapter.
Like I wouldn't be running notjust one, but two businesses now
if it wasn't for volunteering.
And what it allowed me to do wasas somebody who was, you know, a
creative director and kind ofpegged to somebody who couldn't
potentially run a business,apparently.
Um, I got on a board and I justshared off my operational chops.
(41:30):
And all of a sudden I wastraining all the other boards
how to operate.
And that helped the founder seeme and go, okay, you've got some
skill here.
I'm gonna go do this thing.
How about you run this companyfor me?
And I was like, wait, what?
But it had everything to do withme just showing up and doing a
good job as a volunteer, youknow?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
And also you don't have to do it forever.
So it when I moved to Boston,for example, I um I moved there
and I had started my ownbusiness and no one knew me in
that way.
And I got involved with anorganization that was high
visibility, that was rapidlygrowing, that you know, it was
(42:10):
really good.
I I worked hard as a co-chair ofthe Boston chapter, but I met so
many people and got so manyconnections.
And and then there's a pointwhere you go, okay, now it's
time for someone else to do it,because you don't have to do it
forever.
And someone, what I learned youknow, a long time ago is that if
(42:30):
you move away, because I was uhvolunteering in Seattle when I
moved across the country, it'slike it will the organization
will not crumble.
I mean, they they they're notrelying that you think that it's
all on your shoulders and no onecan do the job like you do, but
you know what?
They figure it out.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
They do.
I think that is like the otherthing too.
I'm gonna take a quick littlepicture of us because I want a
picture for later.
And then I also want to postyour go where you are,
celebrated, not tolerated.
That's gonna stick with me.
Um but yeah, what did you sayright after that?
Because I got distracted takingmy picture.
SPEAKER_02 (43:03):
Uh just about being in Boston and and volunteering
for us that it's okay to do fora certain amount of time, that
you even if it's more than youwant to do, just do it for a
year, you know, and and that canbe really valuable as well.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
It was the connections too, right?
The networking.
That's immense.
Like honestly, like I built sucha reputation for myself by just
volunteering, you know,strategically for the things
that mattered to me.
Like people knew what I stoodfor, and that's how the right
opportunity to run my secondbusiness came from.
So yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
Strategic volunteering, that's the phrase.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
That's a really good phrase.
Yeah, no, I love it.
Great advice.
All right, we would be remissnot to mention good old AI in a
podcast because you know it'severywhere and we know it's not
going away.
It's AI.
It's listening to us right now.
Um, reshaping sales, it'sreshaping sales in so many other
industries faster than any otherfunction.
(44:00):
From what you're seeing is theopportunity, is this an
opportunity for women or do youfeel more of a risk when it
comes to sales?
And what should they be payingattention to right now when it
comes to AI?
Because there's just a lot goingon.
There's a lot of noise aroundit.
SPEAKER_02 (44:14):
Well, I feel it's a great time for women to get into
sales if they haven't, and ifthey're in it, um, to just kind
of, you know, improve theirchops, you know, so to speak,
and to understand how AI canhelp us do our jobs.
It can streamline things so manyways, um, but it can't do
(44:36):
everything, at least not now.
And I figure there's, you know,a number of years, there's a
window, just like when theinternet came about in the late
90s, you know, early 2000s,everybody was like, oh, you
know, all the bookstores aregonna go under.
And some of them did, right?
But not all of them, becausethose mom and pop bookshops that
(44:57):
had um book clubs and uh did allthese personalized things,
they're still thriving, youknow, years later.
So it's changed, and we have tolearn how to adapt to it.
So it's not like you don't haveto do a thing and everything
will be perfect.
That that's not what I'm saying,but you need to learn about AI,
see how it can be your workmateand your stream streamline the
(45:22):
the manual things that everybodyhated to do anyway, and and you
know, take advantage of that.
And then and what women canbring is is the sense of um just
the communication skills andrapport building and community
building, like you were talkingabout earlier, and um and just
(45:43):
also there are all sorts ofdifferent skills, empathy, um AI
doesn't have any of that forsure.
So we bring that in spades, andand so it's a great time, it's a
great time to be in sales.
SPEAKER_00 (45:56):
I agree with you.
It's a very good complimentarytool, and honestly, hiding away
from it and being afraid isisn't going to serve you.
So you kind of just got to divein and use it to your advantage.
I love that.
That's great advice.
All right, so you built um scoremore sales and women sales pros
simultaneously.
So the consultancy and theadvocacy work.
How do you think about those twomissions?
(46:18):
And did they ever pull indifferent directions, or do you
feel like they're very aligned?
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
Well, I I need them to be aligned because I only
have so much energy andbandwidth.
So what's great is that Yeah,Score More Sales is a sales
strategy firm and getting morewomen into sales is part of the
strategy of building inclusivesales teams.
So to me, it ties in um verywell.
(46:45):
And I do my best work whenthey're connected like that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
I agree.
I agree.
That and I think we're verysimilar in that sense.
It's like I just always wantthere to be a through line, you
know, like a thread that kind ofgoes through because again, it's
like strategically smart aswell, right?
We like to work smarter, notharder.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Yeah, and people need to understand that you're
not just one or the other.
Yes.
You know, if you come combo.
SPEAKER_00 (47:10):
Good point.
I love that.
All right, one last question,and then we're gonna go to I'll
check the chat and see ifthere's any questions, and then
we'll go into our power round,um, which is a set of lightning
round questions to wrap thingsup.
Yeah, no pressure.
It's all good.
It'll be fun.
All right.
So, you know, say a companyleader is listening right now at
a sales organization.
Um, and they genuinely genuinelywant to do better.
(47:31):
This is kind of where that wholeempowering our allies comes in.
Um, better by their women intheir sales org.
What are the what's the firstconcrete thing you would tell
them to do like this week?
It's a a male leader.
Um, I would say a company leaderin general, yeah.
But if you want to dissect it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:48):
Yeah, I would say go to the people and ask them what
they need.
Uh, I I think of a good maleally that I've known for years,
and he, you know, he thought andI thought he was doing a really
great job, but he asked thewomen on his team, like, Am I
doing enough?
Should, you know, what elseshould I be doing?
(48:09):
And he got better feedback fromthem.
And and that was tremendousbecause he was open to it, and
then he was able to shift and beeven stronger.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
You're only gonna benefit from it, fellas.
Give it a try.
We promise it'll be okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:25):
That's the best first step is to listen and
don't, you know, don't walk inand start telling everybody what
to do, but ask the questions andget the feedback and then do you
know, do what you will fromthere.
SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
That's fantastic advice.
All right.
We're good in the chat for now.
If you've got questions, dropthem in there.
If not, feel free to connectwith Lori on LinkedIn or check
her out through her website,which we'll include in the show
notes as well.
And we love the questions, sodon't be shy about sharing them
if you've got them.
Well, if you are shy about it,definitely just reach out to
Lori.
(49:00):
Um, all right.
Uh, our power round questions.
One word that describes wherewomen in B2B sales are right
now.
Um, climbing, growing.
Love it.
Love it.
Finish this sentence.
The uh best sales manager I everhad was a man named Al Martin.
SPEAKER_02 (49:21):
He came from IBM and he taught me, he used to pace,
and we would, I was in fieldsales, so we would go to an
office and wait to meet the theexecutive.
And sometimes you'd have to waitand wait and wait in the waiting
room.
And Al would pace back andforth, and he would make people
so anxious because he was a bigman.
(49:43):
And and they would get, youknow, they'd scurry in and say,
Oh, you know, is is Mr.
Smith coming out?
Because this this guy's kind ofpacing.
And then he'd look at his watchand he'd go, Okay, we'll give
him five more minutes.
And then we'd say, he'd say,Well, we need to reschedule.
And and I just learned aboutrespect and you know, being
respected for being in a salesrole, which isn't always the
(50:06):
case in sales.
SPEAKER_00 (50:09):
I love that.
I love that story.
That sounds amazing.
It sounds like an awesome guy.
All right, something that youwish someone would have told you
in your first year of sales forall our newbies out there.
SPEAKER_02 (50:19):
Negotiate your salary.
That's my number one.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
And like you said earlier, that's you
demonstrating your skills andabilities for the job.
So if like anything else, justlike use it, do negotiate for
that.
SPEAKER_02 (50:31):
Yeah, I got brought into a company to speak uh about
um my tips, and I mentioned thatone, and I thought, oh, the
company hired me to come in.
I hope they're not mad that I'mtelling all the women that they
should negotiate their salaries.
SPEAKER_01 (50:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:47):
So but it's the right people will hire you then.
The right people will hire youthen, right?
So, like that was the thing too.
Like with this new business I'mrunning, it's a co-working
space.
I loved that the communitymanager straight up negotiated
right out of the gate.
I did not expect it fromsomebody so young and a woman.
So I was even myself takenaback.
But so I will tell you, like,I'm probably more likely to hire
(51:08):
you because you actually triedto negotiate.
That tells me so much about you.
Um, not that I would even startlowballing anybody, um, but it
was really, it was really greatto see sort of that strategic
thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
Um it's just something women don't tend to
do.
You know, we just we were raisedto just accept take what we're
given and just be happy aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
All right.
A belief, last one, a beliefthat women in sales uh you used
to hold that you've completelychanged your mind about.
SPEAKER_02 (51:43):
Um, I used to feel kind of down about um things not
changing, about progress nothappening so fast.
And now I see really greatcompanies that have evolved with
great leadership and great womenleaders.
There's so many amazing femaleleaders now.
Uh on my post I did um today, Imentioned all these different
(52:07):
organizations for women in salesand communities and clubs, and
and those weren't around before.
So I champion those and I Icheer everybody on doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
I love it.
That's fantastic.
And it is, I agree with you.
We're seeing more and more ofit.
Um, women are standing in theirpower in a lot of different
ways, in a lot of different likemoments in society and whatever.
So yeah, it's very, very, it'svery exciting to see.
Well, Lori, thank you so much.
This has been such a greatconversation.
Thank you for spending your timewith us in our amazing community
(52:40):
here at Together Digital.
Yeah.
Make sure where can um folks goto find you and get their hands
on those tickets.
SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
I think LinkedIn is a really good way, but please
mention in the connectionrequest, if we're not connected,
that you heard this um thisinterview because I get lots of
them.
And I I I, you know, it you'remaking it easy for people if you
can customize it and mentionthis.
And then I'll I'll click on,I'll accept it right away.
SPEAKER_00 (53:06):
Perfect.
I love it.
Uh this is so great, Lori.
Score more sales, anything scoremore sales online.
Yeah, that's where I am.
You got your gal now.
You know who to go to.
All right, Together DigitalCommunity, you also know the
drill.
If this conversation fired youup, please share it.
Tag someone who needs to hearit, um, whether it's a coworker,
friend, a boss.
(53:28):
And if you're ready to be a partof the community of women who
are actively choosing to sharetheir knowledge, power, and
connections, check us out, joinus at togetherindigital.com.
Until then, everyone, thank youfor joining us.
Thank you for listening live.
Thank you for listening afterthe fact.
Thank you again, Lori, forsharing your power.
Until then, everyone, keepasking, keep giving, and keep
growing.
We'll see you next time.
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn, and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer at Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choosewho work in digital and choose
to share their knowledge, power,and connections.
You can join the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
(00:32):
And today's conversation is oneI've been looking forward to
because we're going somewhere alot of people dance around, but
rarely go directly.
The gap between women'scontributions in B2B sales and
how they're actually seen,compensated, and promoted.
Today, our guest Lori Richardsonis the founder of Score More
(00:53):
Sales, a top B2B sales strategyfirm helping mid-market leaders
solve real revenue problems fromhiring and retention to building
inclusive, high-performing salesteams.
She's also the president ofWomen's Sales Pros, a community
she founded in 2015 when shenoticed that nearly every single
manager was trained and coachingthat was training and coaching,
(01:15):
she was training and coachingwas a male.
That moment of clarity launcheda movement.
And Lori is now also the authorof She Sells, a book dedicated
to helping companies recruit,retain, and promote more women
into sales and leadership.
She is also the host of theaward-winning podcast,
Conversations with Women inSales, and Salesforce has named
her a top sales influencer forfive years running, which is so
(01:38):
awesome, from 2021 to 2025.
Her latest initiative, the SalesDecades Project, is documenting
and honoring women who quietlyshaped the B2B sales industry
for decades.
Women who deserve to be named,celebrated, and studied.
Lori, uh Lori's story is deeplypersonal, which we love here,
right?
We love to get vulnerable.
(01:59):
We love to get real.
We love to talk about thechallenges and help each other
navigate through them.
She entered tech sales as ayoung single mother in the
mid-1980s and went from minimumwage to a six-figure income.
Go, Lori.
She is uh spent her careermaking sure that more women
succeed in that same path.
Lori, we're so excited to haveyou here in the Power Lounge.
(02:21):
Thanks for joining us today.
Thanks, Amy.
It's really a pleasure to behere.
Absolutely.
All right, we're gonna just jumpright in.
Um hello to our live listeningaudience.
We are always glad when you joinus to listen live, members,
non-members, drop yourquestions, drop your comments
into the chat.
I'll be keeping an eye on thoseas I interview and talk with
(02:41):
Lori.
We want to know what you want toknow.
That's why we have theseconversations.
So if you have a question, youhave a comment, drop it in the
chat.
I promise you we will get to itduring the show.
But let's start with your start,Lori.
Um, as a young single mom in the80s, looking for a role that
could support your family, whatwas it about B2B sales that that
(03:02):
clicked for you?
And when did you realize thatthis was the path that you
wanted to help other women findas well?
SPEAKER_02 (03:10):
Yeah, it's interesting because I I grew up
in a family-run business.
So my grandmother, who we calledMimi, had a retail women's
apparel store.
Yeah, I grew up in Seattle, andshe had, it wasn't just a store.
I mean, it was upscale.
It was very classy, you know,really nice stuff.
(03:32):
And she had this incrediblecustomer base and clientele of
good, regular, ongoing uhcustomers.
And I learned so much from her,although I I didn't think I was
there to learn anything.
You know, I was just justhanging out most of the mostly.
And then I started working forher.
And but I wanted to become ateacher, so I got out of high
(03:55):
school early because I wasbored, and I got my first degree
and my associate's degree inearly childhood education by the
time I was 18.
So when my friends weregraduating, you know, I'm way
ahead of the game.
Oops, but then I got pregnant,married, divorced, and
sidetracked a little bit.
And suddenly my childcare uhworking in um with kids who were
(04:20):
mostly under five, five yearsold, I loved it so much.
It was so great.
And I worked at the Universityof Washington with international
students, kids, but I couldn'tsupport my family.
And so I thought I'm gonna findsomething that's non-traditional
that my male peers are makingthe same money because as a head
(04:42):
of household, why shouldn't Imake the same?
So that's what I set out to do,and I didn't research and I went
to through a program where Ilearned all sorts of different
non-traditional jobs for women.
And then the guy came in to talkabout technology.
And when that happened, Ithought just somehow it came to
me.
(05:02):
This was not a big grand plan,mind you.
It just some voice said to me,you know, what if you sold
technology?
And so I was able to get inafter many, many tries, lots of
resumes applied all over town.
I got a role as uh as asalesperson in a computer store,
(05:23):
basically.
SPEAKER_00 (05:26):
I love that story.
Thank you so much for sharingit.
I I honestly cannot imagine whatthat must have been like.
You know, graduating from schoolyounger, you know, getting
pregnant young, getting divorcedyoung, going through all of that
and then still having like theclarity for yourself to trust
that intuition and say, oh, likethis is the thing, and not just
(05:47):
see like the roadblocks, but seethe opportunity in that.
I think that that's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (05:52):
Yeah, I mean, I just there had to be a better way.
I knew there had to be a betterway, and I I didn't want to be
hand-to-mouth.
And what had happened, one ofthe things that happened is I
got in a car accident on my wayto buy my son a pair of shoes,
and I totaled my car, and I Iactually didn't have car
insurance back then because itwasn't required, and I was just
(06:16):
scraping by.
And you know, it just changedeverything that I realized.
Yeah, I have to have morestability.
It just hit me young, probablybecause I'm the youngest in my
family.
And so I I've seen, you know,I'd seen a lot of other things.
But yeah, it was definitely aturning point.
And I started on straightcommission in my sales job.
(06:36):
I didn't make a penny.
I had a guarantee for about twomonths, and then it was all me.
So I had to learn how to besuccessful.
SPEAKER_00 (06:46):
Wow, that's a gauntlet right there, like on
all ends and all sides.
But it is fascinating how likesometimes those lowest points,
those lowest moments are themoments you're like, I just
gotta get up and figure thisout.
So fast forward to 2015, nowyou're training other sales
managers, and you look aroundthe room and you're like, wait a
(07:06):
second, it's all dudes.
That realization came, becamewomen uh sales pros.
What do you think about that gapthat is uh set about the
industry then?
And how was it then and and howhas it or hasn't it changed
since the 80s?
SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
Yeah, I I just posted about it today on my
LinkedIn, actually.
I wrote an article, a long formarticle, and I think about this
all the time.
You know, every year it's it'sWomen's History Month, it's
International Women's Day, andOctober is Women in Sales Month,
and and so I'm always wonderingwhat's changed, what's
(07:46):
different, how can I make animpact, how can I how can I say
something differently?
And and what I realized in 2015,it like it felt like the 1980s
because I actually had morewomen that I worked with back
then.
And my first job, I had a goodmix of men and women.
We were having a blast, we wereall young, there was no big
(08:07):
issues, everybody made the samemoney.
But then it was my next role uhand subsequent sales roles that
I started to see pay inequity,um, just you know, being passed
over, not being heard, and and alot of those things.
And it just surprised me when Iwalked into this room full of
(08:28):
about a hundred managers, thatabout 90 some of them were men.
And I know that women are goodin leadership, and I know women
can be really good in sales.
Um, not sales is not foreveryone for sure, but women can
just kill it, as they say, youknow, and really succeed.
And I just was so surprised thatit it hadn't changed in in that
(08:52):
that was a telecom industry.
SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
Ooh, telecom.
I was a telemarketer for all oflike three months, and it was
the worst job of my life.
But I will tell you that itreally taught me how to just
kind of go for it, you know, andthen get past the uncertainty,
get past the lack of confidencebecause you have a quota.
And like you said, you'reworking on commission.
(09:18):
And so it really pushes you outof your comfort zone.
And, you know, and it's noteasy.
You're right, and it's not foreverybody.
But I think what it taught mewas that that assertiveness and
that confidence as I continue togrow and build it and get more
comfortable with like my scriptand the approach and managing
different types of people.
Um, you know, it's kind of it'skind of like it's like you're
(09:38):
you're learning the game, youknow, and it's kind of
interesting.
SPEAKER_02 (09:40):
Yeah, and sales skills, sales skills are life
skills.
And and so I feel like there'sno downside for a woman in
particular, women are men, butin particular women, to spend
two years in a sales rolebecause the first year can be
tough.
But once you master things andonce you get a handle on how
(10:01):
things work and the ebbs andflows and things like that, and
deal with if you're able to dealwith rejection, um, it it it's
such an amazing career.
And all of the lessons apply tolife.
So if you want to go on and andstart your own business, for
example, you're gonna be thefirst salesperson.
(10:21):
And so you better know how tosell.
And many business people, peoplestart businesses all the time.
Founders start, they don't knowthe first thing about sales.
Those are companies that we workwith sometimes.
And so, um, and and if you justwant to stay in corporate and
climb the corporate ladder atvarious companies, you get you
use those sales skills for thattoo.
(10:42):
So it's it's a really good setof skills to learn, even if you
just use it professionally orwith your kids or your family,
you know, in terms of whereyou're going for vacation.
And all those things have to do,you know, there there are ways
that you can help influence umthe outcome.
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
Yeah, that's great.
I love that sound bite.
Uh sales skills are life skills.
It's absolutely true because ittakes all that, it takes
confidence, it takesnegotiation, it takes
self-awareness.
Yeah, a lot of those things.
Um, no, I mentioned earlier inyour intro about your book, She
Sells.
Um, and it's addressed to bothcompany and sales leaders, and
(11:20):
not just women.
So I was curious, like, why didyou make that choice
specifically?
And what was the most commonblind spot that you see in
leaders who think they arebuilding inclusive sales teams,
but maybe aren't?
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
Yeah, so she sells was really the book with all the
answers that I was giving tomostly to leaders who were
mostly men.
So that that book actually isfor men more than women.
Um, anyone in leadership, a lotof the women know that we need
more women.
And most women hire more womenthan men do and are more diverse
(11:56):
in terms of their thinking andbuilding inclusive teams.
So it was really written to mento say, hey, here's how you can
do a better job at finding morediverse candidates.
Here's how you can, you know,put them through the process to
recruit, and then here's how youcan onboard in a better way.
(12:17):
So it was a lot of different um,it was really my answers to all
these one-on-one conversations Ihad with leaders over the years
and and just put it in a book.
Um, how has it changed?
I I feel like, you know, thereare some companies that do it
really well, and there are abunch that don't.
And so at least people have thechoice now to find those good
(12:42):
companies and find, I say findthe good leaders.
If if you're gonna report tosomeone, you want to work for
someone who wants your bestinterest, who wants you to grow
and improve, who wants you tohave the same pay as your male
counterpart.
All those things are reallyimportant because the the latest
stats from 2024 show that womenare still not paid equally, even
(13:06):
in a sales role where there'scommissions involved, because
it's the salaries that are notset the same.
It happened to me in the 80s andit continued.
Um, you know, I once you'reyou're down lower, you you don't
ever get ahead.
That's the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (13:24):
No, that's great.
I love that.
And I am so with you there.
I mean, it's obviously like youcan't just preach to the choir.
And I'm all about empoweringwomen, but I also think you need
to empower the allies.
And I think a lot of men holdback from doing that because
they don't feel like they havethe information, insight, data,
or even the ability to have theempathy, not saying they're not
empathetic, it's just they don'thave the lived experience.
(13:47):
And so I think if they'rewilling to sit and hear that, go
ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (13:50):
Yeah, and and there's such a societal
influence.
For example, just the book beingcalled She Sells, a lot of men
thought that it's for women.
And so I had CEOs that said, Oh,I'm gonna give this to all the
women on my sales team.
And I was like, You didn'tsubtitle.
Read the subtitle.
It's for you, man.
Right.
So it's so that was funny to me,and uh, maybe not so funny, but
(14:14):
but it it holds true.
It it holds true.
And and so the event that I'mdoing in April, it's I don't use
the word women in it, if younotice, because I don't want to
disenfranchise half thepopulation who thinks it's not
for them, because we have bothwomen and men attending.
SPEAKER_00 (14:31):
Yeah, that's fantastic.
I love that.
I think that that's the rightapproach this day and age, and
given where we are, I thinkthat's gonna be the thing that
helps move the needle forward.
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
Because we're recognizing women doesn't mean
that men won't appreciate it andlearn from it.
And and what I'm excited aboutis that a lot of uh we have 50
university students in salesprograms that are attending, and
probably half are men.
So that's really good for thoseyoung men growing up.
SPEAKER_00 (14:56):
I love it.
That's great.
Yeah, gotta raise them right.
Awesome.
Let's talk about you mentionedearlier the compensation and
unequal pay in sales and howit's a real undocumented problem
across a multitude ofindustries, but let's keep it
focused on sales.
What are the patterns you seeand what do you tell women who
suspect they're being underpaidbut aren't sure how to approach
(15:18):
it?
SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Well, it's interesting.
I I like to follow the data.
I don't like to just throw outnumbers and stats, and there's a
lot of bad stats about pay.
Uh, you know, it's hard,particularly sales, because the
government used to do some kindof tracking, but there were a
lot of retail jobs that weremixed in.
What I I have looked to asurvey, a couple things.
(15:41):
One is Gartner did someresearch, they haven't updated
it in a few years, but Gartnerhas had some really good
research about about women insales and good stats.
But there's a company calledExactly, um, and they have a
tool that helps calculatecommissions and things like
that, that people use aplatform.
And what they found that um Ithink the last time it was done
(16:07):
was 2024, and they found that umthe research showed that women
are significantlyunderrepresented, can
constituting only 30% of the I'msorry, 34% of the sales force
and 29% of sales managers.
Now, the further you go upbeyond sales managers to to VPs
(16:30):
of sales and chief revenueofficers, it gets less and less
oxygen up there for women.
So it's a it's a much, muchsmaller amount.
And this hasn't changed a wholelot over the years, which is
sad.
SPEAKER_00 (16:45):
Yeah, no, I agree.
The stats are usually eitherabysmal and or questionable, but
nonetheless, the the moreaccurate, the the less like
dehar disheartening they are.
Um, okay, so when it comes tolike approaching the
conversation, I think that'sanother thing, right?
I think as women, we're notconditioned to talk about money,
(17:06):
um, which is hard because it itsales is nothing but money,
right?
How might someone go abouthaving that conversation if they
feel like they're being poorlyor undercompensated?
Like, where do you even begin?
SPEAKER_02 (17:19):
Well, I think just understanding the stats.
So again, on average, men earn3.5% more than women as
salespeople.
Um, and when they adjust outsidefactors, men earn 9% more than
women as salespeople.
And that's base, like basesalary, fixed pay, as they would
(17:39):
call it.
And so it's really important tounderstand when when there's a
job offer to know that you knowthat what they base it on.
Like it's anytime you'renegotiating, it's good to know
how where did you get thatnumber from, or how did you base
that number?
And and I think that's a fairquestion.
And then um, I'm just a realstickler because I know that at
(18:02):
least two or three times in mycareer I I was not paid the same
as my male counterparts.
So even today, even as uh athought leader, when someone
asked me if I would contributeto an article or you know,
something on a website, I wantto know well, are is anyone else
(18:23):
getting paid to do this if I'myou know, if I'm volunteering my
time and and IP, is anyone elsegetting paid?
And that's my first question.
And so I'm I'm gonna find out.
And and I think it's importantfor women to know if they're
getting uh a you know a fairsalary.
And also if if you're in a salesrole, it's kind of upon you to
(18:46):
ask for more because it itdemonstrates w what you're
thinking about when if yourcustomer is going to ask for a
discount or something, forexample, to be able to be
comfortable to talk aboutnumbers and to see what's fair
and to see what's what's what acompany is able to do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:04):
That's a great point, Lori.
I never thought about that.
The fact that you negotiatingyour salary and the terms and
the benefits of your job is isyou is you demonstrating your
skills to do the job.
I love it.
I love it.
And like you said, just theasking.
I mean, uh, we once were doingan event and for Together
(19:24):
Digital, and we had a panel, itwas funny, and it was a
conversation about negotiationand whatnot.
And and we, you know, had acouple of guys attending the
event, and we always love tohear from them and what they
have to say.
And and one of the guys kind oftowards the end, you know,
somebody had made an ask aboutspecific negotiation, and he's
like, ask for the no.
(19:45):
You know, the worst they can sayis no.
And that was like, what?
So simple, but made a lot ofsense.
It took a lot of the pressureand the overthinking off.
And then the other thing waswhen it was several years ago
now, one of our members stood upand shared that she had learned
that one of her coworkers whowent to the same college as her,
got the same degree as her,started at the company the same
(20:07):
week as her, in the same role,just a different client, was
making more than her.
And she didn't say how muchmore, but she really wanted to
know how to approach the topic.
And so the advice from thegroup, because we kind of do
this whole ask and give exchangething, was you know, just go to
your boss and ask, do wepractice pay equity here?
And if so, how does my salarycompare to, let's say, oh, I
(20:30):
don't know, this guy that I workwith who does the exact same job
with the exact same degree fromthe exact same college?
And the boss man's like, yeah,you know, let me look into that.
Comes back to her not even amonth later and is like, okay,
so we're gonna give you a raise.
And she, Lori, she got a$60,000a year raise.
(20:51):
Not 16, not$6,000,$60,$6,000.
Yeah, ridiculous.
Five figures of a raise.
Because that's how much she wasgetting underpaid.
Incredible.
Incredible.
But we don't know if we don'task.
And we don't have to go likecharging in and making like I
love that that was the advicefrom the community was like,
(21:12):
don't go charging in and beingaccusatory.
Be curious, ask the questionsand then wait for the answers.
SPEAKER_02 (21:18):
Yeah.
And then also, if sometimespeople say, Oh, everybody starts
at the same level, you know, itthis is how we hire.
I heard that from a big companyrecently, not recently, but a
while ago.
But but but the men willnegotiate, uh, but I need to
have a week off at Christmas, orI can't start for another, you
know, or I need this or that.
(21:39):
And they get all these, youknow, all these things added in
that we don't think about.
And and another example forwomen is I know a woman who came
back from maternity leave andshe really wanted a bigger
salary, but she really wantedflexible more of a flexible
schedule.
So she said, I chose theflexible schedule and went to
bat for the That and she goes,turns out I could have had both.
(22:02):
Oh, right.
You don't get what you don't askfor.
SPEAKER_00 (22:06):
Just assume.
Just assume I can only have one,right?
That's too much.
It's not scarcity mindset, whichI do believe is again a lot of
social conditioning.
But it you're right.
I think one of my other favoritestories.
Go ahead.
No first.
SPEAKER_02 (22:18):
But Amy, you know, it's also about, oh, if she's
asking, you know, she's one ofthose women that just, you know,
asks for this.
It's hard to be a woman inbusiness because you're either
too aggressive, you're notaggressive enough, you know,
you're you're this.
It's and we have examples ofevery each end of the spectrum,
and and finding that middleground is really tricky.
SPEAKER_00 (22:41):
It is.
Yeah, there is no winningbecause 100%.
I was just getting ready toshare a story with a guy that um
I worked with a while back whowas a global strategist who came
from a large agency to ourMidwest, you know, mid-sized
agency.
And he was talking about thethings he negotiated.
Like he didn't want to have acar while he was living here.
He was living kind of in thedowntown area, close to the
(23:02):
agency, but not close enoughthat it was like a good for him
to walk every day.
So he negotiated a new bicyclefor himself.
He also negotiated a nap everyday.
I was like, what?
It's just so wild.
But he's like, but these are thethings that are my
non-negotiables.
These are the things that matterto me.
And, you know, at the end of theday, the company's like, well,
yeah.
And I'm sure again, he getswalking in with his credentials
(23:24):
and his white dudeness.
And I mean, he was just a littleto tell the guy too.
But like, yeah, he made themoney too.
He got the bike, he got thenaps, and he made the money.
But you would just never thinkto ask for those kinds of
things, but you are exactlyright.
Uh there's a there's a lot ofthings.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
If they tell you no, you know, so what?
SPEAKER_00 (23:42):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
That's what negotiation is.
It's a little bit of a danceuntil you kind of find that that
rhythm, those steps that makesense for the both of you.
Um and if it's meant to be,yeah, 100% it'll meant to be.
I think that whole like uh it'shard right now though, too,
right, Lori, because that jobmarket is a no-joke right now.
Yeah, it is.
So everyone's feeling a littledesperate.
SPEAKER_02 (24:02):
We're all feeling a little desperate.
The employer has the upper handnow for sure, but this is why
now more than ever, no matterwhat, you still have to find a
company where you know it'sethical and you know, you you
believe in the products andservices, you like the you can
stand behind the company, andyou're gonna learn from your
boss.
(24:23):
I mean, if at the very least youdon't want someone that's not
gonna support you, and there areplenty of those people out
there, unfortunately now thatpeople have learned that a lot
of people have learned they cando bad behavior now and get away
with it because that's what theysee exhibited all over the place
these times.
SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, they're seeing thateverywhere.
Yeah, I feel that.
All right.
So another thing that comes intoplay when it comes to moving up
and moving through the ranks ofsales, you know, mentorship and
sponsorship, those of those comeup a lot in conversations about
women's advancement, but they'renot exactly the same thing.
Um, what's the difference?
(25:03):
And which one do you think womenin B2B sales specifically need
the most right now?
SPEAKER_02 (25:09):
Well, I think we need both.
Um, you can have both, so youdon't have to pick.
But um the difference is thatmentorship is someone who can do
skills better than me that I Iwant to learn from.
So for example, uh I might go tofinance and and check with the
the head of finance or even theCFO if they'll if they have time
(25:33):
to talk to me to show me how youknow how finances work in in a
business.
Uh a PL statement, for example.
A lot of people don't know that.
And those are important thingsthat AI, you know, AI can
explain it, but they can't umleverage it in with a
conversation with yourprospective customer.
(25:55):
So being able to learn specificskills and then to go to someone
and say, I I really need tolearn, or I'd really like to
learn about a PL PL statement.
Could you help me with that forover lunch or you know, an hour
or so, so that when I'm askingfor someone to mentor me, it's
(26:15):
not like an open-ended, wouldyou be my mentor?
You know, and it's like, well,what does that mean?
How long does it last?
What do I have to do?
And and you be ready as amentee, you be ready to come to
someone saying, Here are thequestions that I have, and make
it easy for the mentor to dothat.
So that's that's mentorship isvery important because you can
(26:38):
learn all different things thatyou don't know already.
And then the other issponsorship, and and a sponsor
is someone who has power in thecompany who can speak about you
when you're not in the room.
We know those thoseconversations happen all the
time.
Uh, when you're not in thehighest echelon at an
(26:58):
organization, people are youknow talking about what if we
did this and what if we movedso-and-so, and what if we got
rid of these people?
And so the sponsor is the onethat says, you know, Amy is just
as good as Bob, you know, whydon't you look at Amy too?
And and that's uh invaluable.
I mean, it it's it's just if youdon't have that, it can be your
(27:22):
demise.
SPEAKER_00 (27:23):
Oh, 100%.
And I think it's like thebiggest power move that you know
allies can make is you know,speaking the names of of the
women who are the the folks whoare not in the room.
That's they I don't think peoplewill really acknowledge how much
power that is.
And it doesn't require anythingof you, honestly.
It just shows you that you'reputting your, you know, belief
(27:47):
and um recommendation behindsomeone.
And if you believe in them andthey deserve it, like why why
wouldn't you?
And that requires no money fromyou.
That requires no time for you.
And as long as you're willing toput your, you know, a little bit
of your reputation out there andbetting on this person, then
like why wouldn't you?
You know?
Yeah, it looks like you're gonnasay something else.
Go ahead.
SPEAKER_02 (28:06):
Yeah, the best way that you can get a sponsor is
not again not to ask, will yoube my sponsor?
Because nobody wants to do that.
That's a lot of responsibility,but you you do extra work or a
special project for this personor where there's visibility.
Because the issue we don'trealize, and and this is
(28:28):
notoriously ongoing issues forwomen, is that we get out of
college, in college, we workedreally hard, we did extra
credit, put our head down, workreally hard, then we go to the
company, work really hard, putour head down, and we just wait
to get tapped on the shoulder,and that doesn't happen.
That isn't how it works.
So, what what you need to do ismake sure that not just your
(28:50):
boss knows what you're doing,but somehow your boss's boss,
and maybe someone in ahorizontal role, and you're out
there and you're mixing and youknow the people so that people
start going, hey that Amy, she'spretty sharp.
Maybe she could help with thisother project.
And and that's how you you don'tleave it to your boss to talk
you up at all.
(29:11):
And keep track of it, even writeit down at the end of every
week, either digitally or in anotebook or something, the
things that you accomplish,because you'd be surprised.
I I'm still surprised when Ithink about what I did, you
know, the in the first quarterof this year, for example.
My brain's on to the next thing,and I'm not going, oh, but we
did this one really great thing,too.
(29:33):
So it's a good way to patyourself on the back.
And then if you're up for apromotion or if you're
considering a move or you know,going to another organization,
have all that listed out so youcan just go down and it's not
personal, it's not bragging,it's like these are the things I
accomplished.
Yeah.
It's facts.
It's facts.
SPEAKER_00 (29:53):
I love that.
Yeah, to me it is.
It's celebration and umrelationships.
Um I love that.
We have a member in Austin whoalways talks about her to-da
folder.
She doesn't focus on just herto-dos, she gets her to-da's
done as well.
Because exactly what you saidthere, Lori, where it's like we
(30:14):
kind of just move through thatlist because I think we're all
kind of hardwired to beproductive and we think
productive equals value versuslike our innate skills and
talents alone.
It's like, how many items can Icheck off the list today?
You know, and instead, when youpause and look at your ta-da's
and you record those, like yousaid, those aren't just like
made up things, those are facts.
(30:36):
And one, you deserve tocelebrate them.
And and two, like again, youneed to use them and leverage
them as you negotiate, workthrough the ranks.
And then the other is likereputation, right?
Celebration and reputation.
Those are the two things I wasgonna kind of call on.
And reputation does come fromthe relations, like you said,
with the sponsor.
You can't just be like, yo, bemy sponsor.
(30:56):
It is, it is earned, like yousaid.
It is something that requiresyou to show up consistently, you
know, and and show that you areare worth, you know, somebody
sticking your neck out for.
And that really just requiresyou to be good at your job, show
up, you know, do itsuccessfully.
And then, like you said, not nothold back from saying, look what
I did, and I just did it well,and not in a braggy way, um, but
(31:19):
also still have all the uhconfidence of a mediocre white
man named Chad, as we like tosay here within TD.
Um, but yeah, talk about it.
Humble brag.
We have a whole channel on ourtogether digital slack that is
just about wins.
We want to condition our womento be more, you know, pro
approposed to of sharing thatwin.
And we want to celebrate withthem because when we hear
(31:40):
somebody else is winning, thatjust means we're all winning.
And that's what we love to hearand see.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Love that.
Um, let's talk a little bitabout your sales decades
project.
I mentioned this earlier as wellin the opening.
What inspired it?
And what have you discoveredabout these women's stories that
has surprised or moved you?
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
Well, what inspired it was me getting angry.
So I and I don't get angry veryoften, but what was happening is
I I've noticed a couple of mygood friends and colleagues and
who I have called mentors umstepping down from being
involved in sales.
One retired and then one um justsaid, you know, I'm gonna, I
(32:23):
want to do other things.
And and they just, you know,kind of left the face of the
scene, like on LinkedIn andelsewhere.
And I heard two differentconversations with two different
people telling women who are insales roles that they need more
female role models.
And I just thought, wow, but youdon't know Trish, and you don't
(32:45):
know Jill, and you don't knowSiobhan, and you don't know some
of these other women that I knowwho are incredible.
And and if you're 20 or 25getting into say to a sales
role, and you're female or malefor that matter, because the
guys can learn a lot from thesewomen too, there's incredible
(33:05):
amounts of knowledge.
And these women, women tend tojust move on, you know.
We don't need to have a websitecontinue, you know, they shut
their website down very often.
They they don't re-publish theirbooks or make workbooks, or you
know, and men don't tend tothink that way.
It's like, ooh, I could havesome passive revenue.
(33:27):
Let me build that up.
And and my women friends arejust moving on.
So I thought we need a way tocapsulize who these women are.
You said it really well in theintroduction.
I love the words that you chose.
Um, but these are trailblazersand these are women that helped
take um, you know, take businessfrom being manual to being
(33:48):
digital, and and it's prettycool.
You know, it's pretty cool withsome of the stories that we've
heard and we're gonna be sharingover the next six months online.
SPEAKER_00 (33:57):
Yeah, that's so exciting.
I am thrilled to hear thatyou're doing this because yeah,
I attended the 3% conferencethat was started by Kat Gordon
in 2012.
It was like the initial launchof it.
And at the time it was becausethe call to 3% conference,
because only 3% of creativedirectors were women.
And I was an associate creativedirector with in a small agency
working on beauty clients, ofcourse, with one other female
(34:19):
creative director.
And we were the only two.
And so I was like such a strangething for me to be like, oh,
wait, like I'm an anomaly?
I did not even know this.
Um, but I love what you said.
I agree with you.
I think some of the bestbusiness ideas come from anger,
especially from women, right?
Because there are problems inthe world that can be fixed.
And then also, like, so anger isthe opportunity, and then you
(34:43):
have to take the opportunity andthen maximize it, like you were
saying.
Make that website, create thosebooks, and create the workbooks
and spin off the podcast.
Like, we are strategic people,right?
We know how to make a dollarstretch, you know, how to get
the most out of like theplanning and the time and all
this stuff.
It's like, why would you not dothat with an opportunity as
well?
SPEAKER_02 (35:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so the idea is that we'refocusing on the 1980s this year
and next year.
We've already secured uh uh thesame space and we're going to do
the 1990s.
So when we started in the 1990s,a little younger, and um, and
there's a whole I already have alist of them because they I had
(35:24):
to check, you know, and find outwhat did you sell in the 80s?
No, no, I sold in the 90s.
Okay, well, you'll be next year.
SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Gotta wait till next year.
That's right.
Well, tell folks a little bitwhere they can find out more
about this event and where itis.
SPEAKER_02 (35:36):
Yeah, so we're having actual in-person events
in Dallas at University of TexasDallas, which is they have a
wonderful sales excellenceprogram there.
And it is April 22nd in theevening, is a reception where
we're recognizing all of the umpeople that we've nominated.
And then the next day is a dayof learning.
(35:59):
So it's all about sales,leadership, and mentorship on uh
all day long on the the 23rd ofApril.
SPEAKER_00 (36:06):
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:07):
Yeah, and we still have tickets, and if anyone
references this show, I would behappy to honor that early bird
price.
So love it.
SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
Ah, I love it.
Thank you for that.
That's great.
We will make sure we includesome of that information as well
in the show notes.
All right, I'm taking extranotes too because Lori, you're
giving me so many ideas.
So many ideas.
I love this.
All right, let's talk about,let's see, for women who are
currently individualcontributors in sales roles that
want to move into a leadershiprole.
(36:39):
Um, what's the advice that youfind yourself giving most often
that maybe they're not alreadyhearing?
SPEAKER_02 (36:46):
Yeah, well, first find ways to get good
self-awareness so that you knowwhere your strengths are and and
if you're, you know, what you'relacking in.
We're all lacking in differentareas, and and start thinking of
ways to work on it.
I always thought of myself as alifelong learner.
So I wanted to learn everythingI could about communication, I
(37:08):
wanted to learn aboutnegotiation, I wanted to learn
about um anything that involvedthat was connected to selling.
And so that is one thing that Iwould do.
And then I would take on aproject or two, not everything,
don't be the volunteer that doeseverything for everybody, but
take on a project that could behigh visibility within the
(37:33):
organization, and you end upbecoming a leader without the
title yet.
And so I like that strategy, andthen you work into getting the
title and the pay increase.
Um, to me, that's one of thebest, especially in a time like
this where people are notoffering raises maybe, or you
know, quick to promote, um, butto have have a plan and and help
(37:59):
be helpful first, lead withthat, and then and the the rest
usually should follow, but notalways, because some people get
stuck helping everybody witheverything.
And I'm not I'm not recommendingthat.
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
No, I love that.
Putting that line in the sand isso important, Lori, because I
think a lot of us do we'll burnourselves out with doing all of
the work work at work, and thenwe'll do the emotional labor at
work.
We'll be the ones to plan andhost the holiday parties at
work.
But then I'm like, why are youdoing this?
No man would ever agree to dothis kind of voluntary work.
(38:32):
Like, unless your plan is tomove into an event planner and
coordinator and you want to showthose skills there, like why?
Why would you take on unpaidlabor in addition to the work
that you're probably alreadygetting underpaid for?
This is also like, I'm justgonna soapbox for like a half
second and then I'll get off it,I promise.
But this is really where I getrah about like ERGs, which
(38:55):
honestly, unfortunately, a lotof those have started to kind of
fade and go away.
There's no funding.
But then also, I think womenjust got tired of trying to fix
a problem they didn't create.
And so, like, you have theseemployee resource groups that
are for LGBTQIA and people ofcolor and women, and we're all
sitting here scratching ourheads going, like, but we didn't
make this problem.
And you but company, you want usto make you all feel like you're
(39:17):
doing the right things and makeother people like us feel more
seen and heard.
Like, no, no, that's your job asthe company to do, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And that's what I I tell womenthat too when they say, I'm not
really happy in my role, I don'tfeel respected, I don't, you
know, I I I don't feel like theyreally are glad I'm here.
And I say, Well, it's on them tomake you feel that.
Well, it's you know, if youdon't feel it, you should be out
opening your eyes and seeingwhat else is out there because
(39:46):
they're not going to change,most likely.
And and it's not up to you toget them to change, it's on
them.
And if if they're not, you know,if they're not making it a
welcoming place where, you know,um it's it's just not worth it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Yeah.
Well, because it's not just apaycheck.
It's like it's like that's likea relationship, right?
If you came home to somebodythat never acknowledged you,
that never showed appreciation,that never gave you your dues,
would you be like, I I have tostay?
I mean, sometimes, yeah, we dobecause we have to learn.
Yeah.
But like at the same time, it'slike, golly, like in that sense
(40:25):
of a relationship, I mean, justbecause they're cutting you a
paycheck doesn't mean they won'tcut you because you are a
number.
And it's not that I don't wantto see people loyal to where
they work, but I think I've seena lot of women die on some
pretty big hills and put a lotof their career on the line.
SPEAKER_02 (40:40):
My saying that I love is is go where you're
celebrated, not tolerated.
SPEAKER_00 (40:45):
Oh, I like that one.
I'm gonna put that one away inmy back pocket for later.
Why put up with toleration?
You know?
Oh, and I love that.
But I will say quickly one morething on the volunteering,
because I think it's important.
Like we've painted this pictureof let's not maybe go over here
and overextend ourselves, but bestrategic in your volunteering.
And I think I'm a great exampleof that.
(41:06):
Honestly, um, I started as amember of this organization and
a president of a local boardchapter.
Like I wouldn't be running notjust one, but two businesses now
if it wasn't for volunteering.
And what it allowed me to do wasas somebody who was, you know, a
creative director and kind ofpegged to somebody who couldn't
potentially run a business,apparently.
Um, I got on a board and I justshared off my operational chops.
(41:30):
And all of a sudden I wastraining all the other boards
how to operate.
And that helped the founder seeme and go, okay, you've got some
skill here.
I'm gonna go do this thing.
How about you run this companyfor me?
And I was like, wait, what?
But it had everything to do withme just showing up and doing a
good job as a volunteer, youknow?
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
And also you don't have to do it forever.
So it when I moved to Boston,for example, I um I moved there
and I had started my ownbusiness and no one knew me in
that way.
And I got involved with anorganization that was high
visibility, that was rapidlygrowing, that you know, it was
(42:10):
really good.
I I worked hard as a co-chair ofthe Boston chapter, but I met so
many people and got so manyconnections.
And and then there's a pointwhere you go, okay, now it's
time for someone else to do it,because you don't have to do it
forever.
And someone, what I learned youknow, a long time ago is that if
(42:30):
you move away, because I was uhvolunteering in Seattle when I
moved across the country, it'slike it will the organization
will not crumble.
I mean, they they they're notrelying that you think that it's
all on your shoulders and no onecan do the job like you do, but
you know what?
They figure it out.
SPEAKER_00 (42:47):
They do.
I think that is like the otherthing too.
I'm gonna take a quick littlepicture of us because I want a
picture for later.
And then I also want to postyour go where you are,
celebrated, not tolerated.
That's gonna stick with me.
Um but yeah, what did you sayright after that?
Because I got distracted takingmy picture.
SPEAKER_02 (43:03):
Uh just about being in Boston and and volunteering
for us that it's okay to do fora certain amount of time, that
you even if it's more than youwant to do, just do it for a
year, you know, and and that canbe really valuable as well.
SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
It was the connections too, right?
The networking.
That's immense.
Like honestly, like I built sucha reputation for myself by just
volunteering, you know,strategically for the things
that mattered to me.
Like people knew what I stoodfor, and that's how the right
opportunity to run my secondbusiness came from.
So yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02 (43:36):
Strategic volunteering, that's the phrase.
SPEAKER_00 (43:38):
That's a really good phrase.
Yeah, no, I love it.
Great advice.
All right, we would be remissnot to mention good old AI in a
podcast because you know it'severywhere and we know it's not
going away.
It's AI.
It's listening to us right now.
Um, reshaping sales, it'sreshaping sales in so many other
industries faster than any otherfunction.
(44:00):
From what you're seeing is theopportunity, is this an
opportunity for women or do youfeel more of a risk when it
comes to sales?
And what should they be payingattention to right now when it
comes to AI?
Because there's just a lot goingon.
There's a lot of noise aroundit.
SPEAKER_02 (44:14):
Well, I feel it's a great time for women to get into
sales if they haven't, and ifthey're in it, um, to just kind
of, you know, improve theirchops, you know, so to speak,
and to understand how AI canhelp us do our jobs.
It can streamline things so manyways, um, but it can't do
(44:36):
everything, at least not now.
And I figure there's, you know,a number of years, there's a
window, just like when theinternet came about in the late
90s, you know, early 2000s,everybody was like, oh, you
know, all the bookstores aregonna go under.
And some of them did, right?
But not all of them, becausethose mom and pop bookshops that
(44:57):
had um book clubs and uh did allthese personalized things,
they're still thriving, youknow, years later.
So it's changed, and we have tolearn how to adapt to it.
So it's not like you don't haveto do a thing and everything
will be perfect.
That that's not what I'm saying,but you need to learn about AI,
see how it can be your workmateand your stream streamline the
(45:22):
the manual things that everybodyhated to do anyway, and and you
know, take advantage of that.
And then and what women canbring is is the sense of um just
the communication skills andrapport building and community
building, like you were talkingabout earlier, and um and just
(45:43):
also there are all sorts ofdifferent skills, empathy, um AI
doesn't have any of that forsure.
So we bring that in spades, andand so it's a great time, it's a
great time to be in sales.
SPEAKER_00 (45:56):
I agree with you.
It's a very good complimentarytool, and honestly, hiding away
from it and being afraid isisn't going to serve you.
So you kind of just got to divein and use it to your advantage.
I love that.
That's great advice.
All right, so you built um scoremore sales and women sales pros
simultaneously.
So the consultancy and theadvocacy work.
How do you think about those twomissions?
(46:18):
And did they ever pull indifferent directions, or do you
feel like they're very aligned?
SPEAKER_02 (46:23):
Well, I I need them to be aligned because I only
have so much energy andbandwidth.
So what's great is that Yeah,Score More Sales is a sales
strategy firm and getting morewomen into sales is part of the
strategy of building inclusivesales teams.
So to me, it ties in um verywell.
(46:45):
And I do my best work whenthey're connected like that.
SPEAKER_00 (46:49):
I agree.
I agree.
That and I think we're verysimilar in that sense.
It's like I just always wantthere to be a through line, you
know, like a thread that kind ofgoes through because again, it's
like strategically smart aswell, right?
We like to work smarter, notharder.
SPEAKER_02 (47:02):
Yeah, and people need to understand that you're
not just one or the other.
Yes.
You know, if you come combo.
SPEAKER_00 (47:10):
Good point.
I love that.
All right, one last question,and then we're gonna go to I'll
check the chat and see ifthere's any questions, and then
we'll go into our power round,um, which is a set of lightning
round questions to wrap thingsup.
Yeah, no pressure.
It's all good.
It'll be fun.
All right.
So, you know, say a companyleader is listening right now at
a sales organization.
Um, and they genuinely genuinelywant to do better.
(47:31):
This is kind of where that wholeempowering our allies comes in.
Um, better by their women intheir sales org.
What are the what's the firstconcrete thing you would tell
them to do like this week?
It's a a male leader.
Um, I would say a company leaderin general, yeah.
But if you want to dissect it.
SPEAKER_02 (47:48):
Yeah, I would say go to the people and ask them what
they need.
Uh, I I think of a good maleally that I've known for years,
and he, you know, he thought andI thought he was doing a really
great job, but he asked thewomen on his team, like, Am I
doing enough?
Should, you know, what elseshould I be doing?
(48:09):
And he got better feedback fromthem.
And and that was tremendousbecause he was open to it, and
then he was able to shift and beeven stronger.
SPEAKER_00 (48:20):
You're only gonna benefit from it, fellas.
Give it a try.
We promise it'll be okay.
SPEAKER_02 (48:25):
That's the best first step is to listen and
don't, you know, don't walk inand start telling everybody what
to do, but ask the questions andget the feedback and then do you
know, do what you will fromthere.
SPEAKER_00 (48:39):
That's fantastic advice.
All right.
We're good in the chat for now.
If you've got questions, dropthem in there.
If not, feel free to connectwith Lori on LinkedIn or check
her out through her website,which we'll include in the show
notes as well.
And we love the questions, sodon't be shy about sharing them
if you've got them.
Well, if you are shy about it,definitely just reach out to
Lori.
(49:00):
Um, all right.
Uh, our power round questions.
One word that describes wherewomen in B2B sales are right
now.
Um, climbing, growing.
Love it.
Love it.
Finish this sentence.
The uh best sales manager I everhad was a man named Al Martin.
SPEAKER_02 (49:21):
He came from IBM and he taught me, he used to pace,
and we would, I was in fieldsales, so we would go to an
office and wait to meet the theexecutive.
And sometimes you'd have to waitand wait and wait in the waiting
room.
And Al would pace back andforth, and he would make people
so anxious because he was a bigman.
(49:43):
And and they would get, youknow, they'd scurry in and say,
Oh, you know, is is Mr.
Smith coming out?
Because this this guy's kind ofpacing.
And then he'd look at his watchand he'd go, Okay, we'll give
him five more minutes.
And then we'd say, he'd say,Well, we need to reschedule.
And and I just learned aboutrespect and you know, being
respected for being in a salesrole, which isn't always the
(50:06):
case in sales.
SPEAKER_00 (50:09):
I love that.
I love that story.
That sounds amazing.
It sounds like an awesome guy.
All right, something that youwish someone would have told you
in your first year of sales forall our newbies out there.
SPEAKER_02 (50:19):
Negotiate your salary.
That's my number one.
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (50:23):
And like you said earlier, that's you
demonstrating your skills andabilities for the job.
So if like anything else, justlike use it, do negotiate for
that.
SPEAKER_02 (50:31):
Yeah, I got brought into a company to speak uh about
um my tips, and I mentioned thatone, and I thought, oh, the
company hired me to come in.
I hope they're not mad that I'mtelling all the women that they
should negotiate their salaries.
SPEAKER_01 (50:46):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:47):
So but it's the right people will hire you then.
The right people will hire youthen, right?
So, like that was the thing too.
Like with this new business I'mrunning, it's a co-working
space.
I loved that the communitymanager straight up negotiated
right out of the gate.
I did not expect it fromsomebody so young and a woman.
So I was even myself takenaback.
But so I will tell you, like,I'm probably more likely to hire
(51:08):
you because you actually triedto negotiate.
That tells me so much about you.
Um, not that I would even startlowballing anybody, um, but it
was really, it was really greatto see sort of that strategic
thinking.
SPEAKER_02 (51:21):
Um it's just something women don't tend to
do.
You know, we just we were raisedto just accept take what we're
given and just be happy aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (51:33):
All right.
A belief, last one, a beliefthat women in sales uh you used
to hold that you've completelychanged your mind about.
SPEAKER_02 (51:43):
Um, I used to feel kind of down about um things not
changing, about progress nothappening so fast.
And now I see really greatcompanies that have evolved with
great leadership and great womenleaders.
There's so many amazing femaleleaders now.
Uh on my post I did um today, Imentioned all these different
(52:07):
organizations for women in salesand communities and clubs, and
and those weren't around before.
So I champion those and I Icheer everybody on doing that.
SPEAKER_00 (52:18):
I love it.
That's fantastic.
And it is, I agree with you.
We're seeing more and more ofit.
Um, women are standing in theirpower in a lot of different
ways, in a lot of different likemoments in society and whatever.
So yeah, it's very, very, it'svery exciting to see.
Well, Lori, thank you so much.
This has been such a greatconversation.
Thank you for spending your timewith us in our amazing community
(52:40):
here at Together Digital.
Yeah.
Make sure where can um folks goto find you and get their hands
on those tickets.
SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
I think LinkedIn is a really good way, but please
mention in the connectionrequest, if we're not connected,
that you heard this um thisinterview because I get lots of
them.
And I I I, you know, it you'remaking it easy for people if you
can customize it and mentionthis.
And then I'll I'll click on,I'll accept it right away.
SPEAKER_00 (53:06):
Perfect.
I love it.
Uh this is so great, Lori.
Score more sales, anything scoremore sales online.
Yeah, that's where I am.
You got your gal now.
You know who to go to.
All right, Together DigitalCommunity, you also know the
drill.
If this conversation fired youup, please share it.
Tag someone who needs to hearit, um, whether it's a coworker,
friend, a boss.
(53:28):
And if you're ready to be a partof the community of women who
are actively choosing to sharetheir knowledge, power, and
connections, check us out, joinus at togetherindigital.com.
Until then, everyone, thank youfor joining us.
Thank you for listening live.
Thank you for listening afterthe fact.
Thank you again, Lori, forsharing your power.
Until then, everyone, keepasking, keep giving, and keep
growing.
We'll see you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.