March 9, 2026 • 49 mins
Most women in digital can do the work. The harder part is explaining it in a way that actually lands — with the right clients, in the right rooms, at the right price.
That's the problem host Amy Vaughan tackles in this week's episode of The Power Lounge with guest Orly Zeewy, author and self-described "facilitator of light bulb moments." Orly has spent years helping women entrepreneurs cut through the noise of their own messaging — not by adding more to it, but by stripping it down to what clients actually need to hear.
In this conversation, they get into why so many women default to underselling themselves, how to identify your zone of genius and communicate it with confidence, and what a LinkedIn profile needs to do in the 7 seconds before someone decides to keep scrolling. Orly also speaks frankly about pricing — why women consistently undercharge, how brain science plays into it, and what it costs the women who come after you when you do.
If your messaging feels scattered, your LinkedIn feels like everyone else's, or you're not charging what your work is worth, this episode gives you a clear place to start.
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
00:10 - "Clarifying Your Digital Brand"
06:40 - Defining Your Zone of Genius
08:53 - Zone of Genius vs Competency
12:12 - LinkedIn Profile Mistakes
17:20 - "Crafting a Targeted LinkedIn Pitch"
19:46 - "Discovering Your True Gift"
24:47 - LinkedIn Strategy for Transitioning Careers
27:05 - "Women, Money, and Mindset"
31:48 - Confidently Owning Your Worth
32:34 - Educate Clients for Better Value
37:48 - "Power Pose and Perception"
42:03 - "Targeting Startups for Team Success"
43:27 - Masterclass: Luxury Language for Women
46:37 - "Ask, Give, Grow Philosophy"
48:59 - "Join Together Digital Community"
49:20 - Outro
Quotes:
Amy Vaughan:
"We have to fall in love with the problems we're trying to solve, not just the solutions. When you show up to help and uplift, your brilliance becomes impossible to ignore."
Orly Zeewy:
“Messaging is simply sharing the real value you bring and the problems you solve. If it’s true, it isn’t bragging.”
Key Takeaways:
Messaging Is a Mindset—Not a Megaphone
Zone of Genius > Zone of Competency
First Impressions on LinkedIn Matter
Transformation, Not Explanation
Don’t Go It Alone—Ask for Outside Perspective
Raise the Bar—And Your Prices
Community & Coaching Change Everything
Embrace the “Why Not Me?
Connect with the guest Orly Zeewy:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/orlyzeewy/
Website: https://zeewybrands.com/elevate-your-brand/
Purchase Orly’s book: https://bit.ly/readylaunchbrand%20
The Clarity Hour:
This is a monthly event by Orly Zeewy. If you're feeling fuzzy about your messaging and want to learn how to get clear, here's the link to register: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/_PFctwRZRN6MK24ttI28rg#/registration
Connect with the host Amy Vaughan:
LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/amypvaughan
Podcast: https://www.togetherindigital.com/podcast/
Learn more about Together Digital and consider joining the movement by visiting Home - Together Digital
Produced by Heartcast Media: http://www.heartcastmedia.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:10):
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn, and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choose towho work in digital and choose
to share their knowledge, power,and connections, you can join
(00:30):
the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
And today, friends, we aretackling one of the most common
challenges that I hear from ourcommunity of professional women.
I know what I do, but I struggleto explain it in a way that
actually lands, especially whenwe're talking about digital and
tech, right?
So if your LinkedIn profileisn't reflecting your reflecting
(00:52):
your brilliance, or yourmessaging feels a little
scattered and unclear, then youare in exactly the right place
with us today.
Our guest, Orly Zeewee, is anauthor, speaker, educator, and
what she calls a facilitator oflight bulb moments.
Her superpower is making thefuzzy clear.
Orly works with womenentrepreneurs to help them
(01:13):
clarify and communicate theirzone of genius to the people who
need it most so that they canattract what we all need, more
clients, right?
And to grow our business.
She has lectured at Horton,taught entrepreneurship at
Drexel, Jefferson and Penn, andher book, Ready Launch Brand,
The Lean Marketing Guide forStartups, was the number one
(01:34):
business book on Amazon in April2021, endorsed by endorsed by
Seth Godin.
Pretty solid endorsement there,no less.
And her next book, Why Not Me, afemale guide for
entrepreneurship, is inpublishing in 2026.
Big old claps and snaps forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Amy.
It's fun that that you happen tobe in Cincinnati, which is where
I went to school and I got myactually two undergraduate
degrees in Cincinnati.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
So bit of a throwback, you know, you have to
come back and visit so we canhang in person.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
There we go.
I may do that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So check out the old stomping grounds once again.
We're excited to have you here.
We have lots of live listenerswith us today.
You know, you mentioned LinkedInand, you know, marketing
yourself.
Those are two big hot buttonissues for a lot of our members
who are either, you know,creating their own businesses,
doing a side hustle, promotingumselves, you know, as people
out in the job market.
(02:41):
So let's start with the bigpicture.
So many women, um, especiallywithin this community, I know
I'm biased, but it is true.
They're brilliant at what theydo, but they often struggle to
articulate it.
Why do you think messaging issuch a persistent challenge,
especially for womenentrepreneurs?
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Well, you know, this is such a great question.
And it's unfortunately it isvery true.
And honestly, one of the firstthings I hear from women who I
work with is I don't want to bebraggy, I don't want to be
salesy.
And the reality is, first ofall, messaging, because let's
let's back up.
So messaging starts withunderstanding the value that you
(03:20):
offer to your client.
So if you're not clear aboutthat, and you're not clear about
who that client is and howyou're actually uh solving a
real problem for that client,it's really how do you develop
messaging, right?
Then the only kind of messagingleft is to talk about yourself,
which is the least interestingthing that you can message
about.
Because the reality is that whatpeople really want to know is
(03:44):
what is the value that yourclients get.
If you understand that, and ifyou really stand in your value
and know how that value showsup, then it's really about
messaging around that, and it'snot about promoting yourself.
Um, plus, you know, I alwaysbecause you know, I hear this a
(04:04):
lot, I don't want to brag.
And so one of the things Ialways say, well, if it's true,
it's not bragging if it's true.
And you're not talking about youspecifically, but how you help
others.
And I think once you can shiftit to be more about in service
of others, the the more I thinkpeople, you know, women will get
(04:24):
more get more comfortable withthe fact that the messaging is
neither braggy nor salesy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Right.
Yeah, I think that is such agood mindset shift to go from
I'm not selling, I'm supporting,I'm helping, I'm inspiring, I'm
encouraging, I'm uplifting, likeall these different ways in
which, you know, I think aswomen, we are very much
conditioned to be of help andsupport and service of others.
And so it just feels like anatural mindset shift to go from
(04:50):
I'm not trying to force myselfor my services on people.
I'm really just trying to letthem know what I do so that I
can help them best.
Um that is a big hurdle to getover.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
I think that, you know, the other piece that's
really important, and this iswhere the clarity comes in, the
clearer you are, which meansbeing succinct and focus on your
clients, not on yourself.
Yes, the problem happens when westart explaining.
Stop explaining.
(05:19):
Yeah.
Explaining is selling.
Because now I'm trying toconvince people.
But when I'm talking about whypeople, you know, when I really
am focused on why people workwith me, now it's something I
want to learn more about.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
And you kind of want to leave them with a little bit
of mystery so that they can askquestions, right?
So you can kind of gauge theirinterest in what you're
providing.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Exactly.
What you really want to hear,and this is um because the
elevator pitch is usually thestarting point.
And that's usually, you know,kind of when I when I start
having a conversation withsomeone.
And what you want to hear istell me more.
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, that's how you know you'vegot something there that's
interesting for them, right?
And it's valuable to them.
Oftentimes, too, I'm alwaysreminding myself and others,
it's like we have to fall inlove with the problems we're
trying to solve, not thesolution necessarily.
And sometimes the solution isour product or service, but
that's not what people want tohear about.
They want to hear problems thatare relatable that they feel
(06:16):
like, oh, I have that issue too.
And if you can help, then yeah,you're that person.
Um, you talk a lot about helpingwomen communicate their zone of
genius, which I love thatreference.
I'm assuming it's from The BigLeap.
Fantastic book, friends.
If you haven't read it, it'sliterally, I don't even know,
like not even 200 pages, right?
It's a pretty quick read.
Um, could you explain to me forthose who haven't read or
(06:38):
listened to the book, um, whatdoes that phrase zone of genius
mean to you?
And how is it different fromsimply just knowing what your
strengths are?
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
Yeah, so um, I mean, obviously you have to know what
your strengths are, but knowingyour strength, that's a
personal, that's personal,right?
You can say, so here's thedifference.
I am a strong communicator.
That's again about me, and it'spersonal, but that's different
than saying my superpower isconnecting what I hear with what
it is being said, so that otherscan understand and act on it,
(07:10):
right?
So there's all the thedifference with the zone of
genius is there's always um a umsomething that happens because
of it.
So it's not so it's not talkingabout me as as being a genius,
it's talking about my zone ofgenius, what I do that helps
others, and to communicate thatagain in a way that people can
(07:33):
say, Oh, yeah, I get that.
And I also, you know, want tosay that as women and being one
myself, I'm very familiar withthis.
We have a habit of stepping backfrom fully embracing our zone of
genius.
It's almost like we're notembarrassed, isn't the right
word, but hesitant to even say,you know, so me saying making
fuzzy clear, you know, that tooka long time to be able to say
(07:57):
that.
Um, and what we have to do isget over the idea or the fear
that because it comes easily tous, it's not valuable or worth
charging a premium for.
Yes.
You know, because yeah, I makefuzzy clear.
I mean, doesn't everybody know?
No, no, some people make fuzzyfuzzier.
Exactly.
(08:17):
And the other part is that I cando it really, really fast.
So, you know, um that'ssomething you have to get
comfortable with what your zoneof genius is.
And then you've got to literallyplant your flag.
You know, that's the hill you'regonna die on.
This is where you live.
And that's I think that's hardfor everybody to do.
(08:40):
But for women, I think there'sthis discomfort somehow in
standing out, and that, youknow, we can have a whole other
conversation about where thatcomes from.
But yeah, it's really about yougot to get comfortable with the
fact that, yeah, what you'redoing actually has value.
And uh, and also, again, it'sworth charging money for because
that's the other piece.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Yeah, and that's such great advice.
Uh, you know, I I referenced thezone of genius too because I
think there's another trap thatwe fall in as women.
It's like that zone ofcompetency versus zone of
genius.
And I just wanted to call itthat distinction before we move
to the next question, becausethat's another big trap, I
think, in some ways, is thatoftentimes women are the
defaults for um work thatrequires detail organization,
(09:24):
note-taking, project management,um, things like that, right?
Anything that's hospitality ornurturing.
And yeah, you can do that.
But is that your zone of genius?
Is that something that is trulyownable and differentiated for
you as a service or productprovider?
And I think, you know, a lot oftimes we can just find ourselves
(09:45):
really in a world of working forourselves where we end up doing
something that's really more ourzone of competency versus our
zone of genius.
And it makes us hard to standout and to own it, like you're
saying, um, because it's reallyjust the thing everybody tells
us we're good at versus thedistinct thing about us, like
you were saying, making fuzzyclear.
(10:06):
It's not something everyone cando.
And it's very distinctly ownablebecause you know that is not
just a competency, right?
That is a special skill thatreally nobody else has, or very
few people have, that you canthen take and sell as well.
Because I think sometimes whenyou're also kind of coming from
a baseline of, well, this iswhat I'm good at, so I'm gonna
try to charge for it, you're noteven buying it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
You know what?
You have just literally summedup the problem.
Because when you say I'm good atsomething and I guess I can
charge something for it, that isvery different from I have this
zone of genius that very fewpeople have.
I know the value that I bring,and this is why you need
testimonials, why you need toask your clients.
(10:52):
You you have, you know, you'vealready got the proof, but we're
not looking at it as a way toprove it even to ourselves,
right?
And so what happens is we getlost in the minutiae of kind of
explaining the process.
And I always say, you know, thethe pro the thing is nobody
cares about the what and thehow, they care about the why.
unknown (11:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Why do people work with you?
Why are you doing this, right?
Your zone of genius also has toalign with something that you're
passionate about.
I mean, every founder, and I'veworked with hundreds of
founders, and I can tell youthey're all passionate about
something.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
And it just so happens my passion is I love
taking a lot of stuff and thenpulling out that golden thread.
And then when I I I kind of giveit back, I I I show it to my
client, they're like, yeah,that's what I meant to say.
Yeah, how did you know?
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
You've hit the nail on the head.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Right?
And it's and it's I am not, andthis is the other piece, I'm not
creating your elevator pitch.
I'm helping you uncover it,discover it, and then stand firm
in it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
That's fantastic.
I love it.
All right.
So a lot of our members umleverage LinkedIn as a platform
for networking, building theirpersonal brand, building their
business, but maybe they don'tfully leverage it.
What are some three, what are Ialways like to talk about not
just the good things to do, butlike what are the biggest
mistakes you see women making onLinkedIn and why do those
mistakes possibly cause them aloss of opportunity?
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
That's such a great question.
And I think too often we don'teven realize that there are
mistakes.
So the three main areas.
So I look at um primarily Istart with what I call the
identity section of yourprofile, which is at the top of
your profile.
The problem is that the thebiggest issue is that so many
um, so many of your profiles,and they're by the way, there
(12:43):
are a billion people on theplatform.
Yeah, but about 300 million,which is still a lot of people.
This is of course globally, 300million plus are active monthly
users.
But out of those 300 plusmillion, four out of five are
decision makers.
They're your people.
Like if you're in the B2B space,if you're selling services, if
you're a consultant coach,author with you know, uh small
(13:06):
business that's really selling aproduct like that, well, that's
where you need to be.
So good for you that you're onthe right platform, right?
Let's start with let's startwith good news.
The problem is that so manyprofiles end up being invisible,
and that is because they stopthe scroll.
(13:27):
Encouraging the scroll is thewhole point of your profile.
So what happens is we get to andwe're at the top of your
profile, which is typicallywhere we start in this culture
because we read top to bottom,left to right.
People typically will go to yourheadshot, and what they'll see
is, and this is one of themistakes that is easily fixable,
um, they can't see your face,you're kind of turned, you've
(13:49):
got way too much stuff, youknow.
You if you're a woman, you'vegot jewelry, you've got
backgrounds, you've got, youknow, I've actually had, I
actually worked with a client,she had her kitchen cabinets
behind her.
I'm like, oh my god.
It's like a selfie in herkitchen cabin.
Yeah, it was kind of like aselfie.
So my advice, my the first thingyou should do if you haven't
done it, hire somebody, get aprofessional headshot.
(14:10):
And by headshot, I mean head andshoulders.
Not like, you know, I don't wantto see your arms, I don't want
to see like your bracelets andall, you know.
The pro the problem is that weare not looking at our profile
the way we would look at it ifwe were standing us, uh, you
know, we were uh uh at leastback enough, far back enough
(14:30):
that we could see it from theeyes of a potential client.
So that's the first problem.
The second problem is that yourheadline tells me nothing.
It's full of jargon, it'sacronyms, and it's again
selling.
Don't tell me about youraccomplishments.
Don't talk about, you know, yourdegrees or whatever.
(14:51):
That's not that's not what aheadline is for.
The headline again is who do whodo you help and what do they
get?
Who do you help and what do theyget?
You know, if you can justremember this from our
conversation, honestly, but thatmeans you have to identify who
is that person that you help.
And it is not everyone, which isthe other thing that people do.
(15:12):
They think, well, everyone's mycustomer.
Nope, nope, nope, not really.
Because, first of all, do youhave a hundred thousand minimum
marketing dollars to spend goingto market to these people?
No.
And really, are you reallyhelping everyone?
Because what happens is, andthis is a problem too with the
headline, is that the messagingbecomes so generic that
(15:34):
literally it's completelyforgettable.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Um, and then the last thing, of course, is the
the banner.
And the banner, I see this allthe time.
It's either a blue we hope thatmost of the blue your listeners
are not using the generic bluebanner.
If you are using the genericblue banner, stop right now,
figure out what you're doing,and try to find an image that
(15:57):
explains something about whatyou do.
But the the opposite of that isputting everything in the
kitchen sink into your banner.
So there's like all this text,and it's again all about you.
There's your logo, and there'syour face again, and there's you
know, your name.
And it's like, no, that's notthe purpose of the banner.
The purpose of the banner is tohelp me understand something
(16:18):
core, something core about whatyou do.
So I, because again, we'recurious creatures, so we want to
know.
We don't want you to tell useverything, but pique our
interest because again, the goalis to keep people scrolling,
right?
Scrolling is engagement.
The more I scroll, the moreengaged, the more likely I am to
want to connect with you, notjust to sell you something, but
(16:40):
actually because I'm interestedin what you do.
Um, and so, you know, when Ithink about that is that um too
often we think that every aspectof the profile, you need to
shove as much information aspossible.
And really, you need to help uswalk through your profile in the
way that we're gonna want todiscover more about you.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Yeah.
Well, let's dig into that alittle bit more because a lot of
our listeners, I know thatthey're always like pens poised,
ready to take some notes and dosome actionable things that
because they're like literallymultitasking right now in their
LinkedIn profile, unless you'redriving, otherwise, don't do
that.
Um, what are some ways of that?
Um, could you walk us throughwhat a strong LinkedIn headline
(17:23):
actually looks like and howsomeone can start to rewrite
theirs?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Um, yeah.
So um, you know, your LinkedInheadline really um is it's not
the same as your elevator pitch,but they're related.
So, in a way, you've got tofigure out your elevator pitch
first because your pitch reallyshould help again help people
understand what you do, who youhelp, and what they get.
(17:48):
So the first step is do you knowwho your client is?
That seems like such an obviousquestion, but I'm always amazed
how often people will say, Well,everyone's my client, or you
know, they've got three, four,five different no, one.
There's one client that youenjoy working with that's
aligned with where you're comingfrom, that actually needs the
(18:10):
pro the solution that you'reproviding, because otherwise you
become a solution, uh, problemlooking for a solution.
So, um, so the other piece isthat once you understand who
they are, um, go ask yourclients why do they work with
you?
You don't actually have to know,have all the answers.
(18:32):
What you want to do is figureout the thing, and you'll hear
it.
And you know, part of how I gotto Facilitator of Light Bulb
Moments is because I spend yearshearing from my clients.
It's like creating these ahamoments of like, oh, they
changed the way they thoughtabout their business.
And then I started thinkingabout it.
It's like, oh, yeah, that makessense.
(18:53):
So you there's something you'redoing right now that is helping
somebody do something.
What is that?
And then you need to turn itinto one sentence.
That's the hard part.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Yeah.
Right?
Get some copywriter friends tohelp you out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Well, yeah, or yeah, exactly.
But um, you but you really wantis to understand, you know, that
place where you are that isunique to you, that helps people
really get.
And so you want to think about ahook.
So making fuzzy clear, that's ahook.
Yeah.
Facilitator of light bulbmoments is my tagline, but then
(19:32):
I explain that, you know, I makefuzzy clear so that you can
attract your ideal clients andgrow your business.
I'm not talking to everybody,I'm not talking to corporations,
I'm not talking topharmaceutical companies.
I am talking to um, you know,early stage businesses who are
really struggling to attracttheir ideal clients.
(19:54):
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
Yeah, I love the specificity of that.
Um, it also reminds me of aquote that a good friend of
mine, Molly, always says, is youcan't read the label from inside
the jar.
And I think that's where askingpeople to say, like, what do you
come to me for?
Or if you had to say I was knownfor just one specific skill,
like what would that be?
Because oftentimes the thingthat we think is our zone of
(20:16):
genius tends to be ourcompetency, not what others
truly see as like a gift from uhthat we have.
Because, like you said earlier,even we take it for granted
because it comes easy to us, wedon't see that as an asset.
We just assume everybody doesthis.
And it's like, no, no, theydon't.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
But you have to just to say, I mean, I literally just
wrote an article about you can'tread, you know, you can't read
the Lego from inside the jarbecause you don't have the
perspective.
And so what we end up doing istalking to ourselves, and that
does not attract your idealclients.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And let's break down the theLinkedIn profile a little bit
more.
So we worked on the headline.
Um, what role does the bannerimage and headshot play in first
impressions?
Um, and then is this somethingpeople are overthinking or
underthinking?
I kind of get the sense it's alittle bit of both, but I do see
the pendulum swinging of likeput everything in versus like
make it minimal.
(21:09):
What are your thoughts there?
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Well, first of all, make it minimal.
You know, this is not anarchitecture project.
You know, it's not, I know lessis more, I know that's an that's
uh that's a thing, and less ismore is actually true, but you
have to have the right thing.
And the right thing is again,you want to you want to focus on
what is the thing that yourclient really takes away from
working with you.
(21:30):
Now, there's there's actuallytwo ways to approach this.
One is to focus on what they getand then focus more on something
key about what you offer.
So for me, you know, because I'min the clarity business and
making fuzzy clear is the goal,uh, it just so happens I wear
glasses.
So using an eye chart isinstantly recognizable and it
(21:54):
fits my personal brand.
It also connects with the textwhich says focus your brand.
So I Don't explain, and that'sthe other thing.
Don't explain what you do.
Because the minute you explainit, you're selling and you're
trying to convince someone.
If I'm an expert in something, Ican just say I make fuzzy clear.
I don't explain to you how I doit.
(22:15):
That's my process.
Once we're you're a client,you'll see it, and I'll I'll be
explaining it to you, and we'llwalk through the whole process.
But when you're, you know,remember LinkedIn.
Oh, the other thing, this is theother thing I need to explain to
you why this is so important.
People spend no more than sevenseconds at the top of your
profile before they before theydecide whether to keep
(22:35):
scrolling.
So in my experience, people tendto overthink their banner.
Um, and that translates intothrow everything into it, lots
of information.
You know, people who arespeakers, and I've I've worked
with a lot of speakers, youknow, they've got all these
pictures of them speaking, butyou can't actually see them.
It's just a bunch of people, andthere's arms and weird things
(22:56):
going on, and dogs that aresticking into the picture.
There you go.
So, and and when they put a lotof information or focusing on
them, again, why would you putyour logo in your banner when
your logo is already right belowit?
Because you need to say whereyou work, and if you have a
logo, it shows up anyway, right?
(23:17):
Again, and I know this is gonnasound really counterintuitive.
It is not about you.
I know this sounds so I thistook me a long time, believe me,
to really kind of understandthat.
It is not about you, it is aboutwhat people get from working
with you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
Yeah, I love it.
That's great advice, and it'svery valuable real estate.
Like you said, seven seconds isnot a lot of time.
Um, and there's a lot to bedone.
It's more like five, really.
Yeah, but yeah.
We are goldfish, right?
We are goldfish, right?
The attention span.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Actually, no, the attention span of a goldfish is
nine seconds.
So we're worse than goldfish.
And in 2000, which is when Istarted my consulting practice,
the average human attention spanwas 12 seconds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure it's only gettingshorter.
I have children now.
Eight seconds is what it says,but really it's more like you
know, five to six seconds.
(24:13):
And the the reason that'simportant is when you're giving
your elevator pitch, if you goover eight seconds, you've
already lost me.
So think about no more than yourelevator pitch should not be
more than 15 seconds.
Your headline should take meliterally two seconds to read.
Two to three seconds.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Wow.
Yeah, that's great.
That's great advice.
Awesome.
I know everybody's gettingready.
Just add it to your to-do list,friends.
You don't have to multitask now.
Make those updates later.
All right.
Many of our members arenavigating dual identities,
they're employed somewhere andbuilding their own brand or
consist consultancy.
How do they clarify andcommunicate both without
confusing their audience?
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
I I think that actually it's the wrong question
to ask.
Um, in the sense that um ifyou're working somewhere
full-time, you cannot use yourLinkedIn.
Your LinkedIn profile is apublic profile.
Yeah.
So that means that your bosswill see it.
Which means that you want to bereally careful here because the
(25:15):
goal then becomes more aboutfocusing on focusing on pulling
a common trait that can be bothwhat you bring to the company
and what you bring to clients.
And so that way you can showcaseyour ability to be, let's say, a
leader, a negotiator, whateverit is.
(25:36):
And that can be your headline,and there could be an image,
something around that.
But once you fully transitioninto your consulting practice,
now you can showcase the samequalities in a win for a client.
So the the qualities, your zoneof gs, whatever you're bringing
to your job is probably what'sgoing to make you really good at
(25:57):
what you do when you open yourown practice.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
That's fantastic advice.
And that makes a lot of sensetoo.
I think there's something to besaid for character and
consistency as well.
So if you are currently workingfull-time, like having some of
those traits, values, and agenius that you bring into your
existing full-time job, youknow, making sure that there's,
like you said, that kind ofgolden thread, that through
line, all of a sudden starts tobuild that trust as you go off
onto your own and build yourclients because people are like,
(26:21):
oh yeah, I've always known herfor this, even if I was working
with her before, and now that'swhat I can expect that she'll
bring in the future.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
And don't forget that when you start your
consulting practice, the peopleyou worked with or your company
could become a client.
So you you're kind ofstraddling, right?
That but I would I would err onthe side of really focusing more
on what you bring as opposed totrying to build your your
consulting practice kind of onthe side.
(26:49):
There is no on the side becauseeverything, there's everything
is transparent now.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
So yeah, 100%.
All right, let's see.
Uh you've worked with womenspecifically around
entrepreneurship.
Is there something unique abouthow women tend to underposition
themselves and you know whatmindset shifts might help change
that?
We kind of touched on thisearlier, but just to dig on this
one a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm I know we're gonna
talk about my new book, but Iinterviewed 44 women founders,
you know, across the country,parts of the world, across just
about every industry.
And it's the same thing over andover again, right?
It's that it starts with thesocial conditioning that teaches
women to be less assertive andthe relationship that we learn
(27:31):
about money through our family.
In fact, many of the women Iinterviewed mentioned that they
never learned about money orbeing taught the importance of
negotiating a salary, okay?
Even right, I mean, men theyjust do that instinctively
because they're taught aboutmoney.
And somehow we don't we don'tteach our girls this, and this
(27:51):
is a huge, a huge problem.
And so the mindset starts withoh, you know, I'm not that
experienced, I don't know thatmuch, so how can I call myself
an expert?
And it accounts for why so manywomen consistently undercharge
for their services.
So for me, you know, it's alsothe the piece that's really
important is the connectionbetween how we think about what
(28:14):
we offer and how we charge forit.
And one of the things that Ihave learned is um, by the way,
brain science also comes intoplay here.
And you know, again, in duringmy research, I looked into brain
science.
It turns out the female brainsare slightly, not not a lot, but
they're slightly more empathicthan male brains.
What that means is we'reconstantly thinking about how is
(28:37):
this impacting someone else?
And when it comes to pricing, wewe tend to think this way.
So let me give you an example.
So men tend to charge high andthey settle for a price they can
live with.
Women charge less and they lowertheir price to a price that
(28:57):
someone they think someone willpay.
Very, very different.
Instead, what I you know, what Iremind people all the time,
remind women all the time, isthink of the woman that comes
after you.
If I'm undercharging, it makesit harder for the next woman to
charge what she's worth.
So you're actually not helpingwomen, you're hurting women as a
(29:20):
whole.
And also, if you'reundercharging and you're not
really charging what you'reworth, that also it also means
that maybe you can't pay yourbills.
How are you helping people?
Right?
Like just if somebody can'tafford you, they're not ready
for you.
That doesn't mean you have tolower your price.
What you need to do is say,well, when you are ready, I'd
love to work with you.
The way to change the mindset,and I heard I've heard that I've
(29:42):
done this, and I've heard it forevery almost every woman I
interviewed, hire a businesscoach.
This is the best advice I cangive your listeners.
Hire a business coach.
It is the best way andpotentially the only way to
truly shift your mindset.
And I have lots of examples ofthat in the book.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
I mean, I would say too, just talking about what
you're charging openly withother people that you trust.
Um, within Together Digital, alot of our business owners they
talk about the pricing and whatthey do.
In fact, one of our members hadshared with me her proposal to
do a magazine spread and cover.
And I looked at it and I waslike, you you need to charge
twice this.
And she's like, Oh, I can't dothat.
I don't think that's what theycan afford.
(30:23):
I said, What does it cost foryou to do it?
What is the what is the price ofthe value that you're bringing
to this magazine, right?
And she's like, Yeah.
And I said, the worst they'll dois tell you no.
And then you just bring theprice down if you can, but don't
undercharge.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Can I give you an example?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Can I give you an example?
Please, yeah.
I worked with a client who waswoefully undercharging, woefully
undercharged.
She had a year-long contractwith this company.
After we worked together, um, Ido I do some coaching.
I mean, that's not the bulk ofmy business, but once we talk
about value, it's kind of anatural conversation.
And she literally went to themwhen they were looking to um to
(31:01):
hire her for another year, andshe doubled her price and they
did not blink.
Yep.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
That's exactly what happened with this member, too.
She went back and asked fordouble of what she initially
sent to me and they didn't evenbat an eyelash.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (31:17):
You know, ask for the no, honestly, it sucks.
But it's like, I think we think,like you said, we're kind of
empathetically pricing versusvalue pricing.
Yes.
And you're gonna be surprised.
You're gonna be surprised.
And like you said, if if forsome reason, you know, even if
your like shock awe kind ofsticker price for you is scary,
um, if they're not ready,they're not ready.
(31:39):
Because you're gonna resentclients that are underpaying
you.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
You know, I had one of the women I interviewed said,
uh, come up with a price and sayit out loud and do it without
giggling, and then you know thatyou can say that price.
But you have to you have to sayit like you mean it.
You can't just say, well, Ithink or maybe or what do you
think?
No.
Stand firm.
Part of our job, I think, is tostart to stand in that in that
(32:07):
zone, right?
In the power, and to say, This Iknow I'm worth it.
And by the way, when you thinkabout pricing, it's and I and
this is especially true becauseI do a lot of public speaking.
So when I think about speaking,if I'm being hired for an hour,
they're not just getting anhour, they're getting, you know,
30 years of experience, right?
20 years of speaking, uh, uh anauthor, right?
(32:29):
I mean, and then you think abouthow about the education and it
what it cost me to get to thislevel, to get my MBA to, I mean,
so you need to be thinking muchmore holistically and not just
this one thing.
And also the last thing I wantto say is this, and this is
especially true in the designworld, where you know, people
don't even what they don'tunderstand what it means to do a
(32:52):
magazine cover, they don't knowhow much work goes into that.
So part of your job is toeducate your clients because the
best clients are educatedclients.
And when I was doing, when I hadmy design and marketing
communications firm, that's whatI would do.
I would start by educatingpeople and explaining to them.
So by the time we talked aboutprice, they expected it to be
expensive because theyunderstood what went into it.
(33:13):
Yep, I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
That's great advice.
All right, your upcoming bookcalled Why Not Me is such a
powerful question.
What inspired it and what do youwant women to walk away with
believing after they read it?
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
Uh, you know, I I it's actually I I have to give
uh give props here for the oneof the women I interviewed was
actually one of my earlyinterviews.
And she said to me, you know, aswe were talking, she said, I
used to constantly ask myself,why me?
Why me?
And finally I said, Why not me?
And she's now a top LinkedInvoice in the UK.
She's from Northern Ireland,she's met the king, she's been a
(33:48):
guest to 10 Downing Street.
I mean, this woman is likeamazing.
And by the way, when she startedher business, she had a
full-time job and three childrenunder the age of 10.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Wow, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
Yeah.
I could I could we could have awhole other conversation about
how much women take on and howmuch they're able to do and how
remarkable it is that theyaccomplish what they do.
We are pretty badass.
We really are.
I know.
I hate to sound, I don't mean tosound like men are not, you
know, this is not an anti-menthing at all.
Um, also, when I when I um whenI had interviewed this woman, it
(34:26):
reminded me that when I waswriting my first book, Ready
Launch Brand, I asked myself thesame thing.
Why me?
Who am I?
What how what do I know aboutall this?
And then I remembered that Icome from literally generations
of entrepreneurs that I've beenan entrepreneur my entire
career, that I've worked withhundreds of founders to help
them integrate marketing intotheir business.
(34:46):
And then that's when I startedsaying, why not me?
And with this book, I will tellyou, I've never once asked
myself why me.
And that I think of that asprogress.
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
That's fantastic.
I love it.
I think to me, it's reallyspeaking to the depths of the
limiting beliefs that we havewithin ourselves.
And it's like, how many times aday do you stop yourself?
How are you your biggestroadblock?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Yeah.
That's where a coach helps withthat too.
Yeah.
I can't, I can't, I cannotendorse coach business coaches
enough because I've worked withseveral coaches, and I have to
tell you, it's like you justneed to be reminded every once
in a while, like, you know,we've got this.
SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Yeah.
And I think that too, likecoaches, community, peers, you
know, things like that are so,so important to surround
yourself with.
Um, you've taught at Horton,Drexel, and Penn and Jefferson.
When you're working with womenin academic versus the real
world business settings, whatare the gaps that you're seeing
between what they know and howthey show up?
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
So you kind of alluded to it just now.
Women are great at buildingnetworks.
We're like, we that's thesuperpower I think that every
woman has.
Great at building network andalso very collaborative.
So learning and succeeding,especially in an academic set
setting, it's a group effort.
And I actually taught anentrepreneurship class, two
(36:08):
female students, and every oneof them worked together so that
they could all succeed.
And that's really appreciatedand it's rewarded in academia.
Unfortunately, that mindset isdiscouraged in most business
settings, where winning is prizeover building networks and
(36:29):
lifting others.
It's not about lifting others,it's about getting ahead.
That's uh, and you know, again,I don't want to get into
male-female thinking, but youknow, a lot of these
corporations, you know, that'swhere the male energy is
winning, and the female energyis more about collaboration and
building networks.
And of course, there's also thebias that men can speak up and
(36:50):
be decisive while women areexpected to play a supportive
role, which you've alreadymentioned.
And of course, we've allexperienced what happens when a
woman speaks up during meetingsand a man says the exact same
thing that she just said, andhe's rewarded for that.
And the woman is like sittingthere going, but I just said the
same thing.
Um, I think as more what I'mexcited about as more women
(37:12):
build businesses, that mindsetis starting to shift.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
And in fact, you know, if you look at the
numbers, the numbers are prettyuh pretty uh interesting.
Um, in 2019, 29% of newbusinesses were launched by
women.
Today that number is somewherearound 50%.
Amazing.
That makes me happy to hear.
I love it.
It's part of the reason why Istarted to focus more on women
after the fact of the pandemic.
SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
You're like growing market strategy, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Outlet of the passion, of course.
Well, obviously, but but youknow, what I find so interesting
is that you know, when I taughtthese women, I do are you
familiar with Amy Cuddy and theand the um she she taught at
Harvard in Harvard BusinessSchool, and she teaches the
warrior pose, you know, whereyou put your hands up, right?
And apparently she did this withstudents, and when you do the
(38:03):
power and you do it only for twominutes before a big test or a
big meeting, or in fact, I do itbefore every conversation that I
have.
Yeah, it gets you focused.
And here's the crazy thing.
So I when I was teaching um atDrexel, it was mostly a mostly
male uh student body in thisclass, and when I mentioned the
Amy Cuddy pose, one young manraised his hand kind of like
(38:27):
shyly and said, If I do thepower pose, does that mean that
someone can take my power away?
Oh, interesting.
Now, when I taught it in the allwomen group, they when they all
at the end of the semester whenthey were doing their
presentation, they formed acircle and they did the power
pose together.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
I love it.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
It still like makes me tear upwhen I think about it.
It's so amazing.
I mean, they you know, becauseat the end of the day, and
again, I don't know this empathypiece, you know, but you know,
at least in academia, what I seeis women really wanting to
support other women.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
I think that shift's happening, and I hope it
continues to.
It's one of those things it'slike I get all women are not all
for all women, and some of ithas to do with internalized
patriarchy and societalconstructs and you know, the
scarcity mindset of having lesswomen in power, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_00 (39:23):
But that's the changing, yeah.
It is changing.
Slowly, slowly, but it ischanging, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
And it's like you can't expect it to change all
around unless we start to learnhow to embrace one another.
So I love that you're seeingthat at the academic level.
That tells me that that nextgeneration is really starting to
see that, you know, as anopportunity, as a strength, you
know, the collaboration versusthe competition.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Because you know what, it is a strength.
And in fact, women-led companiesare more successful, and it has
actually been shown.
Data literally supports this.
Yeah.
That if you invest in awoman-owned business the same
level as a male-owned business,you will get a 30% higher return
on your investment.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Which is just wild because it's like those aren't
even odds.
That's just like statistics,like you said.
But then women only get 2% ofventure capital funding.
Exactly.
You guys are missing out, folks.
You're missing out on somemoney.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
You're really saying if you're looking about, if
you're looking at this strictlyfrom uh from an ROI standpoint,
you should be investing in everysingle woman on company because
they're gonna, they're gonnabring it back.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Yeah, they're gonna bring it back.
I agree.
Awesome.
All right, so you've taught, ohwait, I think I read that one
already.
Yep.
If you if someone's listeningright now, could do one thing
today to make their LinkedInprofile clear or magnetic.
What would you tell them to dofirst?
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Um, I would I would say um make sure you have a
headline that sums up in onesentence what you do, who you
serve, and what you get, whatthey get.
And stay away from generic termslike coach, consultant, and
acronyms.
Stay away from all that.
Don't explain your process orlist your accomplishments.
(41:00):
Uh what people want to know isnot just what people what your
clients get from you, but I wantyou to start thinking about this
as transformation, notexplanation.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Oh, I love that.
Transformation, not explanation.
That's a good note to take, too.
Oh, fantastic.
Well, live listening audience,if you all have any questions,
you can throw them down into thechat for Orly.
I'm going to go ahead and moveon, though, into our power
round, um, which is kind of ourrapid fire questions to kind of
get ready to wrap up oursession.
(41:31):
So, uh, what is one word youwish more women use to describe
themselves professionally?
Expert.
Ooh, good one.
Yes.
Finish the sentence.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Fuzzy messaging is costing women clients and lost
revenue because their prospectsdon't understand the value they
offer.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
I love it.
So helpful.
What is the most memorable lightbulb moment you've witnessed
about a client?
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
Ah, yeah, this is a great story.
So I recently worked with aclient to rebrand her LinkedIn
profile.
And uh, she was uh havingtrouble identifying her ideal
clients.
And as she was explaining herprocess as a fractional
recruiter, she talked aboutbuilding teams and aligning
hires with the company culture.
Her light bulb moment came whenshe realized that her target
(42:20):
market was startups, becausethat's where she brings the most
value.
And incidentally, the number tworeason that startups fail is
because they have the wrongteam.
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yes, oh my gosh.
And hiring is so critical withinstartups.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
Exactly.
But she was thinking, like, oh,I need to again, because there's
that mindset of, oh, I'mmissing, I'm leaving people out.
But the truth is now that she'sfocused on startups, VCs,
venture capitalists are now apotential revenue stream because
they found startups.
That's awesome.
And now her new headline isbuilding teams that build
(42:56):
startup culture.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Good for her.
Way to go.
Good for you and her.
Yeah, I mean, it it was it wasreally amazing, you know, just
to see that light bulb moment, Ithink it's part of what, you
know, why I'm so passionateabout this because the shift is
like it's like magical, youknow, like all of a sudden, and
now, you know, instead of justcalling herself a recruiter, she
(43:18):
calls herself a culturecatalyst.
SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Love it.
That's fantastic.
A culture catalyst.
Yeah, that's that's definitely agood example of how you can take
that language and just take itto the next level, which um
actually makes me think to noteto our members, especially that
are listening.
Um, this is so perfect that wetalked about this today.
We just did a masterclass onturning conversations into
clients.
(43:42):
And we talked a lot about withum with our facilitator, Quinn,
about using luxury language inreally not just kind of going to
the default, but really owningwhat you do in the nuanced way
that sounds and feels as premiumas it really should be.
So that's such a goodcomplimentary listen.
Um So after you finish thispodcast numbers, jump into Slack
(44:02):
and see if you can find and snagthat in the masterclasses
channel, that link for theplayback.
All right.
One more question I've got foryou in the power round is what
is the best piece of advice fora woman who keeps saying, I'm
still figuring out how toexplain what I do.
SPEAKER_00 (44:22):
Well, first of all, stop trying to do that.
Ask your clients and yourcolleagues who know you and
understand what you do, not youraunt, you know, on your father's
side who sees you once a year.
No, not that person.
I'm talking about colleagues andclients who've actually worked
with you.
Remember, we don't have all theanswers.
(44:42):
It's exhausting trying to figureit out on your own.
And by the way, this issomething that we as women,
which is it's so amazing to methat we're constantly thinking,
like, well, we should know this.
Nobody knows all of this.
No.
You don't know everything whenyou walk in.
I mean, the whole point of beingan entrepreneur is you figure it
out as you go along.
Yes.
And that's where your networkcomes in.
And remember, I said, you know,women are just champions at
(45:05):
building networks.
There are at least five peoplein your network right now who
can give you that answer.
SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
My tagline, just so you know, my tagline,
Facilitative Lightbulb Moments,it came from a colleague who had
been working with me for years.
And she said to me one day,Orly, I know what you do.
You're a facilitator of lightbulb moments.
I'm like, and I had my own lightbulb moments.
I'm like, what can I say that?
You know, and this is like Ithink I started saying that
maybe like 10 years ago.
(45:31):
So you know it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
And it's stuck and it stayed and it's working.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
We're in the jar and we can't see it.
We just can't see the label.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
It's a good, it's a good reminder that we don't have
to do it all and we don't haveto do it alone.
And creativity does not work ina vacuum.
Get outside the jar.
SPEAKER_00 (45:47):
Get outside the jar.
And remember, it is not aweakness.
Right?
I hear I heard this from a lotof women I spoke with.
It's like, no, you don't knowbecause we don't know what we
don't know.
And experience, I mean, thereare people out there.
This is why I think sometimeshaving having a board of
advisors is a good idea becauseyou have people to bounce things
(46:09):
off of.
Yep.
You know, joining a masterclass, going, I mean, I'm part
of I'm part of a cohort rightnow, you know, because again,
and I've been doing this a longtime, but you need perspective,
and you can't have perspectiveinside your own head.
And so I'm here to tell everywoman listening, it's okay.
You don't need to have all theanswers.
SPEAKER_02 (46:32):
Yeah.
I mean, that's our motto withTogether Digital is ask, give,
grow.
And it's a really big emphasison the ask.
It's it's a muscle you have tolearn how to build to know even
a lot of times.
We'll wrap up um an in-person orvirtual peer group or an event,
even our conference with our askand give exchange.
And you'll ask women, what doyou need?
How can I help?
And it's just deer andheadlights.
(46:52):
And it's not that they don'thave a million things they
couldn't use help with.
It's just, it's really hard tobe like, okay, this is what I
need specifically, and this iswhat I would hand off and or
delegate because we're just notused to it.
And so it is a muscle you haveto build.
So we're constantly asking themto ask so that it becomes more
comfortable over time.
SPEAKER_00 (47:11):
And don't forget that people love being asked.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
They do, they want to help.
SPEAKER_00 (47:16):
It's actually a gift, it's a gift.
I mean, you know, you're notasking them for money, you're
not asking to buy something,you're just asking for that your
opinion.
Who doesn't like sharing theiropinions?
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
That's good.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Yes.
And so think of it more aboutit's a it's a gift that keeps
giving.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (47:32):
Yeah, don't deprive them.
SPEAKER_00 (47:34):
Exactly.
And also then you're modelingthis for other women.
You know, um, I think the oneone of the things I've started
doing because I do a lot ofnetworking is before I get into
the room, I think about youknow, what is the one thing that
I can ask and what is one thingI can offer.
SPEAKER_02 (47:50):
I love it.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (47:52):
Really, I feel like, you know, this is part of our
our superpower as women, iswe're really good at connecting
other people.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a blast.
It's a lot of fun.
I love seeing what happens whenpeople get connected.
So this has been fantastic,Orley.
Thank you so much.
Very valuable conversation.
Thank you.
Um, I dropped into the chat,we'll include it in the show
notes.
If you all are curious on waysto connect with Orly, she also
has a clear to fuzzy process.
(48:19):
It's a free monthly webinarcalled the Clarity Hour.
The link for that is in thechat.
So make sure you grab thatbefore we jump off.
Also, it'll be in the shownotes, as well as her LinkedIn,
her website, her YouTube, herhandles.
So anything and everything thatyou need to connect with and get
more Orly time is there for you.
Uh, thank you for everyone who'slistening.
(48:40):
Uh he's listening after therecording.
Orly, thank you again so much.
This has been a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (48:45):
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
I really enjoyed ourconversation.
So um, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Oh, absolutely.
My pleasure.
And folks, for who those who arestill listening, if you're not
yet a part of Together Digital,come and join us together in
digital.com or a community ofwomen in digital who show up for
each other.
And we would love to have youbecause again, more more people,
more power um to share among usall.
So until next time, everyone, wehope to see you again soon.
(49:12):
And until then, keep asking,keep giving, and keep growing.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
Hello everyone and welcome to our weekly Power
Lounge.
This is your place to hearauthentic conversations from
those who have power to share.
My name is Amy Vaughn, and I amthe owner and chief empowerment
officer of Together Digital, adiverse and collaborative
community of women who choose towho work in digital and choose
to share their knowledge, power,and connections, you can join
(00:30):
the movement atTogetherIndigital.com.
And today, friends, we aretackling one of the most common
challenges that I hear from ourcommunity of professional women.
I know what I do, but I struggleto explain it in a way that
actually lands, especially whenwe're talking about digital and
tech, right?
So if your LinkedIn profileisn't reflecting your reflecting
(00:52):
your brilliance, or yourmessaging feels a little
scattered and unclear, then youare in exactly the right place
with us today.
Our guest, Orly Zeewee, is anauthor, speaker, educator, and
what she calls a facilitator oflight bulb moments.
Her superpower is making thefuzzy clear.
Orly works with womenentrepreneurs to help them
(01:13):
clarify and communicate theirzone of genius to the people who
need it most so that they canattract what we all need, more
clients, right?
And to grow our business.
She has lectured at Horton,taught entrepreneurship at
Drexel, Jefferson and Penn, andher book, Ready Launch Brand,
The Lean Marketing Guide forStartups, was the number one
(01:34):
business book on Amazon in April2021, endorsed by endorsed by
Seth Godin.
Pretty solid endorsement there,no less.
And her next book, Why Not Me, afemale guide for
entrepreneurship, is inpublishing in 2026.
Big old claps and snaps forthat.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Oh, thank you so much for having me, Amy.
It's fun that that you happen tobe in Cincinnati, which is where
I went to school and I got myactually two undergraduate
degrees in Cincinnati.
SPEAKER_02 (02:14):
So bit of a throwback, you know, you have to
come back and visit so we canhang in person.
SPEAKER_00 (02:19):
There we go.
I may do that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:21):
So check out the old stomping grounds once again.
We're excited to have you here.
We have lots of live listenerswith us today.
You know, you mentioned LinkedInand, you know, marketing
yourself.
Those are two big hot buttonissues for a lot of our members
who are either, you know,creating their own businesses,
doing a side hustle, promotingumselves, you know, as people
out in the job market.
(02:41):
So let's start with the bigpicture.
So many women, um, especiallywithin this community, I know
I'm biased, but it is true.
They're brilliant at what theydo, but they often struggle to
articulate it.
Why do you think messaging issuch a persistent challenge,
especially for womenentrepreneurs?
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
Well, you know, this is such a great question.
And it's unfortunately it isvery true.
And honestly, one of the firstthings I hear from women who I
work with is I don't want to bebraggy, I don't want to be
salesy.
And the reality is, first ofall, messaging, because let's
let's back up.
So messaging starts withunderstanding the value that you
(03:20):
offer to your client.
So if you're not clear aboutthat, and you're not clear about
who that client is and howyou're actually uh solving a
real problem for that client,it's really how do you develop
messaging, right?
Then the only kind of messagingleft is to talk about yourself,
which is the least interestingthing that you can message
about.
Because the reality is that whatpeople really want to know is
(03:44):
what is the value that yourclients get.
If you understand that, and ifyou really stand in your value
and know how that value showsup, then it's really about
messaging around that, and it'snot about promoting yourself.
Um, plus, you know, I alwaysbecause you know, I hear this a
(04:04):
lot, I don't want to brag.
And so one of the things Ialways say, well, if it's true,
it's not bragging if it's true.
And you're not talking about youspecifically, but how you help
others.
And I think once you can shiftit to be more about in service
of others, the the more I thinkpeople, you know, women will get
(04:24):
more get more comfortable withthe fact that the messaging is
neither braggy nor salesy.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Right.
Yeah, I think that is such agood mindset shift to go from
I'm not selling, I'm supporting,I'm helping, I'm inspiring, I'm
encouraging, I'm uplifting, likeall these different ways in
which, you know, I think aswomen, we are very much
conditioned to be of help andsupport and service of others.
And so it just feels like anatural mindset shift to go from
(04:50):
I'm not trying to force myselfor my services on people.
I'm really just trying to letthem know what I do so that I
can help them best.
Um that is a big hurdle to getover.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
I think that, you know, the other piece that's
really important, and this iswhere the clarity comes in, the
clearer you are, which meansbeing succinct and focus on your
clients, not on yourself.
Yes, the problem happens when westart explaining.
Stop explaining.
(05:19):
Yeah.
Explaining is selling.
Because now I'm trying toconvince people.
But when I'm talking about whypeople, you know, when I really
am focused on why people workwith me, now it's something I
want to learn more about.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (05:35):
And you kind of want to leave them with a little bit
of mystery so that they can askquestions, right?
So you can kind of gauge theirinterest in what you're
providing.
SPEAKER_00 (05:42):
Exactly.
What you really want to hear,and this is um because the
elevator pitch is usually thestarting point.
And that's usually, you know,kind of when I when I start
having a conversation withsomeone.
And what you want to hear istell me more.
SPEAKER_02 (05:55):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, that's how you know you'vegot something there that's
interesting for them, right?
And it's valuable to them.
Oftentimes, too, I'm alwaysreminding myself and others,
it's like we have to fall inlove with the problems we're
trying to solve, not thesolution necessarily.
And sometimes the solution isour product or service, but
that's not what people want tohear about.
They want to hear problems thatare relatable that they feel
(06:16):
like, oh, I have that issue too.
And if you can help, then yeah,you're that person.
Um, you talk a lot about helpingwomen communicate their zone of
genius, which I love thatreference.
I'm assuming it's from The BigLeap.
Fantastic book, friends.
If you haven't read it, it'sliterally, I don't even know,
like not even 200 pages, right?
It's a pretty quick read.
Um, could you explain to me forthose who haven't read or
(06:38):
listened to the book, um, whatdoes that phrase zone of genius
mean to you?
And how is it different fromsimply just knowing what your
strengths are?
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
Yeah, so um, I mean, obviously you have to know what
your strengths are, but knowingyour strength, that's a
personal, that's personal,right?
You can say, so here's thedifference.
I am a strong communicator.
That's again about me, and it'spersonal, but that's different
than saying my superpower isconnecting what I hear with what
it is being said, so that otherscan understand and act on it,
(07:10):
right?
So there's all the thedifference with the zone of
genius is there's always um a umsomething that happens because
of it.
So it's not so it's not talkingabout me as as being a genius,
it's talking about my zone ofgenius, what I do that helps
others, and to communicate thatagain in a way that people can
(07:33):
say, Oh, yeah, I get that.
And I also, you know, want tosay that as women and being one
myself, I'm very familiar withthis.
We have a habit of stepping backfrom fully embracing our zone of
genius.
It's almost like we're notembarrassed, isn't the right
word, but hesitant to even say,you know, so me saying making
fuzzy clear, you know, that tooka long time to be able to say
(07:57):
that.
Um, and what we have to do isget over the idea or the fear
that because it comes easily tous, it's not valuable or worth
charging a premium for.
Yes.
You know, because yeah, I makefuzzy clear.
I mean, doesn't everybody know?
No, no, some people make fuzzyfuzzier.
Exactly.
(08:17):
And the other part is that I cando it really, really fast.
So, you know, um that'ssomething you have to get
comfortable with what your zoneof genius is.
And then you've got to literallyplant your flag.
You know, that's the hill you'regonna die on.
This is where you live.
And that's I think that's hardfor everybody to do.
(08:40):
But for women, I think there'sthis discomfort somehow in
standing out, and that, youknow, we can have a whole other
conversation about where thatcomes from.
But yeah, it's really about yougot to get comfortable with the
fact that, yeah, what you'redoing actually has value.
And uh, and also, again, it'sworth charging money for because
that's the other piece.
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
Yeah, and that's such great advice.
Uh, you know, I I referenced thezone of genius too because I
think there's another trap thatwe fall in as women.
It's like that zone ofcompetency versus zone of
genius.
And I just wanted to call itthat distinction before we move
to the next question, becausethat's another big trap, I
think, in some ways, is thatoftentimes women are the
defaults for um work thatrequires detail organization,
(09:24):
note-taking, project management,um, things like that, right?
Anything that's hospitality ornurturing.
And yeah, you can do that.
But is that your zone of genius?
Is that something that is trulyownable and differentiated for
you as a service or productprovider?
And I think, you know, a lot oftimes we can just find ourselves
(09:45):
really in a world of working forourselves where we end up doing
something that's really more ourzone of competency versus our
zone of genius.
And it makes us hard to standout and to own it, like you're
saying, um, because it's reallyjust the thing everybody tells
us we're good at versus thedistinct thing about us, like
you were saying, making fuzzyclear.
(10:06):
It's not something everyone cando.
And it's very distinctly ownablebecause you know that is not
just a competency, right?
That is a special skill thatreally nobody else has, or very
few people have, that you canthen take and sell as well.
Because I think sometimes whenyou're also kind of coming from
a baseline of, well, this iswhat I'm good at, so I'm gonna
try to charge for it, you're noteven buying it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
You know what?
You have just literally summedup the problem.
Because when you say I'm good atsomething and I guess I can
charge something for it, that isvery different from I have this
zone of genius that very fewpeople have.
I know the value that I bring,and this is why you need
testimonials, why you need toask your clients.
(10:52):
You you have, you know, you'vealready got the proof, but we're
not looking at it as a way toprove it even to ourselves,
right?
And so what happens is we getlost in the minutiae of kind of
explaining the process.
And I always say, you know, thethe pro the thing is nobody
cares about the what and thehow, they care about the why.
unknown (11:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:14):
Why do people work with you?
Why are you doing this, right?
Your zone of genius also has toalign with something that you're
passionate about.
I mean, every founder, and I'veworked with hundreds of
founders, and I can tell youthey're all passionate about
something.
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:28):
And it just so happens my passion is I love
taking a lot of stuff and thenpulling out that golden thread.
And then when I I I kind of giveit back, I I I show it to my
client, they're like, yeah,that's what I meant to say.
Yeah, how did you know?
SPEAKER_02 (11:43):
You've hit the nail on the head.
SPEAKER_00 (11:44):
Right?
And it's and it's I am not, andthis is the other piece, I'm not
creating your elevator pitch.
I'm helping you uncover it,discover it, and then stand firm
in it.
SPEAKER_02 (11:57):
That's fantastic.
I love it.
All right.
So a lot of our members umleverage LinkedIn as a platform
for networking, building theirpersonal brand, building their
business, but maybe they don'tfully leverage it.
What are some three, what are Ialways like to talk about not
just the good things to do, butlike what are the biggest
mistakes you see women making onLinkedIn and why do those
mistakes possibly cause them aloss of opportunity?
SPEAKER_00 (12:20):
That's such a great question.
And I think too often we don'teven realize that there are
mistakes.
So the three main areas.
So I look at um primarily Istart with what I call the
identity section of yourprofile, which is at the top of
your profile.
The problem is that the thebiggest issue is that so many
um, so many of your profiles,and they're by the way, there
(12:43):
are a billion people on theplatform.
Yeah, but about 300 million,which is still a lot of people.
This is of course globally, 300million plus are active monthly
users.
But out of those 300 plusmillion, four out of five are
decision makers.
They're your people.
Like if you're in the B2B space,if you're selling services, if
you're a consultant coach,author with you know, uh small
(13:06):
business that's really selling aproduct like that, well, that's
where you need to be.
So good for you that you're onthe right platform, right?
Let's start with let's startwith good news.
The problem is that so manyprofiles end up being invisible,
and that is because they stopthe scroll.
(13:27):
Encouraging the scroll is thewhole point of your profile.
So what happens is we get to andwe're at the top of your
profile, which is typicallywhere we start in this culture
because we read top to bottom,left to right.
People typically will go to yourheadshot, and what they'll see
is, and this is one of themistakes that is easily fixable,
um, they can't see your face,you're kind of turned, you've
(13:49):
got way too much stuff, youknow.
You if you're a woman, you'vegot jewelry, you've got
backgrounds, you've got, youknow, I've actually had, I
actually worked with a client,she had her kitchen cabinets
behind her.
I'm like, oh my god.
It's like a selfie in herkitchen cabin.
Yeah, it was kind of like aselfie.
So my advice, my the first thingyou should do if you haven't
done it, hire somebody, get aprofessional headshot.
(14:10):
And by headshot, I mean head andshoulders.
Not like, you know, I don't wantto see your arms, I don't want
to see like your bracelets andall, you know.
The pro the problem is that weare not looking at our profile
the way we would look at it ifwe were standing us, uh, you
know, we were uh uh at leastback enough, far back enough
(14:30):
that we could see it from theeyes of a potential client.
So that's the first problem.
The second problem is that yourheadline tells me nothing.
It's full of jargon, it'sacronyms, and it's again
selling.
Don't tell me about youraccomplishments.
Don't talk about, you know, yourdegrees or whatever.
(14:51):
That's not that's not what aheadline is for.
The headline again is who do whodo you help and what do they
get?
Who do you help and what do theyget?
You know, if you can justremember this from our
conversation, honestly, but thatmeans you have to identify who
is that person that you help.
And it is not everyone, which isthe other thing that people do.
(15:12):
They think, well, everyone's mycustomer.
Nope, nope, nope, not really.
Because, first of all, do youhave a hundred thousand minimum
marketing dollars to spend goingto market to these people?
No.
And really, are you reallyhelping everyone?
Because what happens is, andthis is a problem too with the
headline, is that the messagingbecomes so generic that
(15:34):
literally it's completelyforgettable.
SPEAKER_01 (15:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Um, and then the last thing, of course, is the
the banner.
And the banner, I see this allthe time.
It's either a blue we hope thatmost of the blue your listeners
are not using the generic bluebanner.
If you are using the genericblue banner, stop right now,
figure out what you're doing,and try to find an image that
(15:57):
explains something about whatyou do.
But the the opposite of that isputting everything in the
kitchen sink into your banner.
So there's like all this text,and it's again all about you.
There's your logo, and there'syour face again, and there's you
know, your name.
And it's like, no, that's notthe purpose of the banner.
The purpose of the banner is tohelp me understand something
(16:18):
core, something core about whatyou do.
So I, because again, we'recurious creatures, so we want to
know.
We don't want you to tell useverything, but pique our
interest because again, the goalis to keep people scrolling,
right?
Scrolling is engagement.
The more I scroll, the moreengaged, the more likely I am to
want to connect with you, notjust to sell you something, but
(16:40):
actually because I'm interestedin what you do.
Um, and so, you know, when Ithink about that is that um too
often we think that every aspectof the profile, you need to
shove as much information aspossible.
And really, you need to help uswalk through your profile in the
way that we're gonna want todiscover more about you.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Yeah.
Well, let's dig into that alittle bit more because a lot of
our listeners, I know thatthey're always like pens poised,
ready to take some notes and dosome actionable things that
because they're like literallymultitasking right now in their
LinkedIn profile, unless you'redriving, otherwise, don't do
that.
Um, what are some ways of that?
Um, could you walk us throughwhat a strong LinkedIn headline
(17:23):
actually looks like and howsomeone can start to rewrite
theirs?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:27):
Um, yeah.
So um, you know, your LinkedInheadline really um is it's not
the same as your elevator pitch,but they're related.
So, in a way, you've got tofigure out your elevator pitch
first because your pitch reallyshould help again help people
understand what you do, who youhelp, and what they get.
(17:48):
So the first step is do you knowwho your client is?
That seems like such an obviousquestion, but I'm always amazed
how often people will say, Well,everyone's my client, or you
know, they've got three, four,five different no, one.
There's one client that youenjoy working with that's
aligned with where you're comingfrom, that actually needs the
(18:10):
pro the solution that you'reproviding, because otherwise you
become a solution, uh, problemlooking for a solution.
So, um, so the other piece isthat once you understand who
they are, um, go ask yourclients why do they work with
you?
You don't actually have to know,have all the answers.
(18:32):
What you want to do is figureout the thing, and you'll hear
it.
And you know, part of how I gotto Facilitator of Light Bulb
Moments is because I spend yearshearing from my clients.
It's like creating these ahamoments of like, oh, they
changed the way they thoughtabout their business.
And then I started thinkingabout it.
It's like, oh, yeah, that makessense.
(18:53):
So you there's something you'redoing right now that is helping
somebody do something.
What is that?
And then you need to turn itinto one sentence.
That's the hard part.
SPEAKER_02 (19:05):
Yeah.
Right?
Get some copywriter friends tohelp you out.
SPEAKER_00 (19:09):
Well, yeah, or yeah, exactly.
But um, you but you really wantis to understand, you know, that
place where you are that isunique to you, that helps people
really get.
And so you want to think about ahook.
So making fuzzy clear, that's ahook.
Yeah.
Facilitator of light bulbmoments is my tagline, but then
(19:32):
I explain that, you know, I makefuzzy clear so that you can
attract your ideal clients andgrow your business.
I'm not talking to everybody,I'm not talking to corporations,
I'm not talking topharmaceutical companies.
I am talking to um, you know,early stage businesses who are
really struggling to attracttheir ideal clients.
(19:54):
I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (19:55):
Yeah, I love the specificity of that.
Um, it also reminds me of aquote that a good friend of
mine, Molly, always says, is youcan't read the label from inside
the jar.
And I think that's where askingpeople to say, like, what do you
come to me for?
Or if you had to say I was knownfor just one specific skill,
like what would that be?
Because oftentimes the thingthat we think is our zone of
(20:16):
genius tends to be ourcompetency, not what others
truly see as like a gift from uhthat we have.
Because, like you said earlier,even we take it for granted
because it comes easy to us, wedon't see that as an asset.
We just assume everybody doesthis.
And it's like, no, no, theydon't.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
But you have to just to say, I mean, I literally just
wrote an article about you can'tread, you know, you can't read
the Lego from inside the jarbecause you don't have the
perspective.
And so what we end up doing istalking to ourselves, and that
does not attract your idealclients.
SPEAKER_02 (20:49):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And let's break down the theLinkedIn profile a little bit
more.
So we worked on the headline.
Um, what role does the bannerimage and headshot play in first
impressions?
Um, and then is this somethingpeople are overthinking or
underthinking?
I kind of get the sense it's alittle bit of both, but I do see
the pendulum swinging of likeput everything in versus like
make it minimal.
(21:09):
What are your thoughts there?
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Well, first of all, make it minimal.
You know, this is not anarchitecture project.
You know, it's not, I know lessis more, I know that's an that's
uh that's a thing, and less ismore is actually true, but you
have to have the right thing.
And the right thing is again,you want to you want to focus on
what is the thing that yourclient really takes away from
working with you.
(21:30):
Now, there's there's actuallytwo ways to approach this.
One is to focus on what they getand then focus more on something
key about what you offer.
So for me, you know, because I'min the clarity business and
making fuzzy clear is the goal,uh, it just so happens I wear
glasses.
So using an eye chart isinstantly recognizable and it
(21:54):
fits my personal brand.
It also connects with the textwhich says focus your brand.
So I Don't explain, and that'sthe other thing.
Don't explain what you do.
Because the minute you explainit, you're selling and you're
trying to convince someone.
If I'm an expert in something, Ican just say I make fuzzy clear.
I don't explain to you how I doit.
(22:15):
That's my process.
Once we're you're a client,you'll see it, and I'll I'll be
explaining it to you, and we'llwalk through the whole process.
But when you're, you know,remember LinkedIn.
Oh, the other thing, this is theother thing I need to explain to
you why this is so important.
People spend no more than sevenseconds at the top of your
profile before they before theydecide whether to keep
(22:35):
scrolling.
So in my experience, people tendto overthink their banner.
Um, and that translates intothrow everything into it, lots
of information.
You know, people who arespeakers, and I've I've worked
with a lot of speakers, youknow, they've got all these
pictures of them speaking, butyou can't actually see them.
It's just a bunch of people, andthere's arms and weird things
(22:56):
going on, and dogs that aresticking into the picture.
There you go.
So, and and when they put a lotof information or focusing on
them, again, why would you putyour logo in your banner when
your logo is already right belowit?
Because you need to say whereyou work, and if you have a
logo, it shows up anyway, right?
(23:17):
Again, and I know this is gonnasound really counterintuitive.
It is not about you.
I know this sounds so I thistook me a long time, believe me,
to really kind of understandthat.
It is not about you, it is aboutwhat people get from working
with you.
SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
Yeah, I love it.
That's great advice, and it'svery valuable real estate.
Like you said, seven seconds isnot a lot of time.
Um, and there's a lot to bedone.
It's more like five, really.
Yeah, but yeah.
We are goldfish, right?
We are goldfish, right?
The attention span.
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Actually, no, the attention span of a goldfish is
nine seconds.
So we're worse than goldfish.
And in 2000, which is when Istarted my consulting practice,
the average human attention spanwas 12 seconds.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm sure it's only gettingshorter.
I have children now.
Eight seconds is what it says,but really it's more like you
know, five to six seconds.
(24:13):
And the the reason that'simportant is when you're giving
your elevator pitch, if you goover eight seconds, you've
already lost me.
So think about no more than yourelevator pitch should not be
more than 15 seconds.
Your headline should take meliterally two seconds to read.
Two to three seconds.
SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Wow.
Yeah, that's great.
That's great advice.
Awesome.
I know everybody's gettingready.
Just add it to your to-do list,friends.
You don't have to multitask now.
Make those updates later.
All right.
Many of our members arenavigating dual identities,
they're employed somewhere andbuilding their own brand or
consist consultancy.
How do they clarify andcommunicate both without
confusing their audience?
SPEAKER_00 (24:55):
I I think that actually it's the wrong question
to ask.
Um, in the sense that um ifyou're working somewhere
full-time, you cannot use yourLinkedIn.
Your LinkedIn profile is apublic profile.
Yeah.
So that means that your bosswill see it.
Which means that you want to bereally careful here because the
(25:15):
goal then becomes more aboutfocusing on focusing on pulling
a common trait that can be bothwhat you bring to the company
and what you bring to clients.
And so that way you can showcaseyour ability to be, let's say, a
leader, a negotiator, whateverit is.
(25:36):
And that can be your headline,and there could be an image,
something around that.
But once you fully transitioninto your consulting practice,
now you can showcase the samequalities in a win for a client.
So the the qualities, your zoneof gs, whatever you're bringing
to your job is probably what'sgoing to make you really good at
(25:57):
what you do when you open yourown practice.
SPEAKER_02 (26:00):
That's fantastic advice.
And that makes a lot of sensetoo.
I think there's something to besaid for character and
consistency as well.
So if you are currently workingfull-time, like having some of
those traits, values, and agenius that you bring into your
existing full-time job, youknow, making sure that there's,
like you said, that kind ofgolden thread, that through
line, all of a sudden starts tobuild that trust as you go off
onto your own and build yourclients because people are like,
(26:21):
oh yeah, I've always known herfor this, even if I was working
with her before, and now that'swhat I can expect that she'll
bring in the future.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
And don't forget that when you start your
consulting practice, the peopleyou worked with or your company
could become a client.
So you you're kind ofstraddling, right?
That but I would I would err onthe side of really focusing more
on what you bring as opposed totrying to build your your
consulting practice kind of onthe side.
(26:49):
There is no on the side becauseeverything, there's everything
is transparent now.
SPEAKER_02 (26:54):
So yeah, 100%.
All right, let's see.
Uh you've worked with womenspecifically around
entrepreneurship.
Is there something unique abouthow women tend to underposition
themselves and you know whatmindset shifts might help change
that?
We kind of touched on thisearlier, but just to dig on this
one a little bit more.
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
Yeah, you know, I mean, I'm I know we're gonna
talk about my new book, but Iinterviewed 44 women founders,
you know, across the country,parts of the world, across just
about every industry.
And it's the same thing over andover again, right?
It's that it starts with thesocial conditioning that teaches
women to be less assertive andthe relationship that we learn
(27:31):
about money through our family.
In fact, many of the women Iinterviewed mentioned that they
never learned about money orbeing taught the importance of
negotiating a salary, okay?
Even right, I mean, men theyjust do that instinctively
because they're taught aboutmoney.
And somehow we don't we don'tteach our girls this, and this
(27:51):
is a huge, a huge problem.
And so the mindset starts withoh, you know, I'm not that
experienced, I don't know thatmuch, so how can I call myself
an expert?
And it accounts for why so manywomen consistently undercharge
for their services.
So for me, you know, it's alsothe the piece that's really
important is the connectionbetween how we think about what
(28:14):
we offer and how we charge forit.
And one of the things that Ihave learned is um, by the way,
brain science also comes intoplay here.
And you know, again, in duringmy research, I looked into brain
science.
It turns out the female brainsare slightly, not not a lot, but
they're slightly more empathicthan male brains.
What that means is we'reconstantly thinking about how is
(28:37):
this impacting someone else?
And when it comes to pricing, wewe tend to think this way.
So let me give you an example.
So men tend to charge high andthey settle for a price they can
live with.
Women charge less and they lowertheir price to a price that
(28:57):
someone they think someone willpay.
Very, very different.
Instead, what I you know, what Iremind people all the time,
remind women all the time, isthink of the woman that comes
after you.
If I'm undercharging, it makesit harder for the next woman to
charge what she's worth.
So you're actually not helpingwomen, you're hurting women as a
(29:20):
whole.
And also, if you'reundercharging and you're not
really charging what you'reworth, that also it also means
that maybe you can't pay yourbills.
How are you helping people?
Right?
Like just if somebody can'tafford you, they're not ready
for you.
That doesn't mean you have tolower your price.
What you need to do is say,well, when you are ready, I'd
love to work with you.
The way to change the mindset,and I heard I've heard that I've
(29:42):
done this, and I've heard it forevery almost every woman I
interviewed, hire a businesscoach.
This is the best advice I cangive your listeners.
Hire a business coach.
It is the best way andpotentially the only way to
truly shift your mindset.
And I have lots of examples ofthat in the book.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (30:02):
I mean, I would say too, just talking about what
you're charging openly withother people that you trust.
Um, within Together Digital, alot of our business owners they
talk about the pricing and whatthey do.
In fact, one of our members hadshared with me her proposal to
do a magazine spread and cover.
And I looked at it and I waslike, you you need to charge
twice this.
And she's like, Oh, I can't dothat.
I don't think that's what theycan afford.
(30:23):
I said, What does it cost foryou to do it?
What is the what is the price ofthe value that you're bringing
to this magazine, right?
And she's like, Yeah.
And I said, the worst they'll dois tell you no.
And then you just bring theprice down if you can, but don't
undercharge.
SPEAKER_01 (30:37):
Can I give you an example?
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
Can I give you an example?
Please, yeah.
I worked with a client who waswoefully undercharging, woefully
undercharged.
She had a year-long contractwith this company.
After we worked together, um, Ido I do some coaching.
I mean, that's not the bulk ofmy business, but once we talk
about value, it's kind of anatural conversation.
And she literally went to themwhen they were looking to um to
(31:01):
hire her for another year, andshe doubled her price and they
did not blink.
Yep.
Yep.
SPEAKER_02 (31:09):
That's exactly what happened with this member, too.
She went back and asked fordouble of what she initially
sent to me and they didn't evenbat an eyelash.
SPEAKER_00 (31:16):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (31:17):
You know, ask for the no, honestly, it sucks.
But it's like, I think we think,like you said, we're kind of
empathetically pricing versusvalue pricing.
Yes.
And you're gonna be surprised.
You're gonna be surprised.
And like you said, if if forsome reason, you know, even if
your like shock awe kind ofsticker price for you is scary,
um, if they're not ready,they're not ready.
(31:39):
Because you're gonna resentclients that are underpaying
you.
That's right.
SPEAKER_00 (31:42):
You know, I had one of the women I interviewed said,
uh, come up with a price and sayit out loud and do it without
giggling, and then you know thatyou can say that price.
But you have to you have to sayit like you mean it.
You can't just say, well, Ithink or maybe or what do you
think?
No.
Stand firm.
Part of our job, I think, is tostart to stand in that in that
(32:07):
zone, right?
In the power, and to say, This Iknow I'm worth it.
And by the way, when you thinkabout pricing, it's and I and
this is especially true becauseI do a lot of public speaking.
So when I think about speaking,if I'm being hired for an hour,
they're not just getting anhour, they're getting, you know,
30 years of experience, right?
20 years of speaking, uh, uh anauthor, right?
(32:29):
I mean, and then you think abouthow about the education and it
what it cost me to get to thislevel, to get my MBA to, I mean,
so you need to be thinking muchmore holistically and not just
this one thing.
And also the last thing I wantto say is this, and this is
especially true in the designworld, where you know, people
don't even what they don'tunderstand what it means to do a
(32:52):
magazine cover, they don't knowhow much work goes into that.
So part of your job is toeducate your clients because the
best clients are educatedclients.
And when I was doing, when I hadmy design and marketing
communications firm, that's whatI would do.
I would start by educatingpeople and explaining to them.
So by the time we talked aboutprice, they expected it to be
expensive because theyunderstood what went into it.
(33:13):
Yep, I love it.
SPEAKER_02 (33:14):
That's great advice.
All right, your upcoming bookcalled Why Not Me is such a
powerful question.
What inspired it and what do youwant women to walk away with
believing after they read it?
SPEAKER_00 (33:26):
Uh, you know, I I it's actually I I have to give
uh give props here for the oneof the women I interviewed was
actually one of my earlyinterviews.
And she said to me, you know, aswe were talking, she said, I
used to constantly ask myself,why me?
Why me?
And finally I said, Why not me?
And she's now a top LinkedInvoice in the UK.
She's from Northern Ireland,she's met the king, she's been a
(33:48):
guest to 10 Downing Street.
I mean, this woman is likeamazing.
And by the way, when she startedher business, she had a
full-time job and three childrenunder the age of 10.
SPEAKER_02 (34:00):
Wow, that's incredible.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
Yeah.
I could I could we could have awhole other conversation about
how much women take on and howmuch they're able to do and how
remarkable it is that theyaccomplish what they do.
We are pretty badass.
We really are.
I know.
I hate to sound, I don't mean tosound like men are not, you
know, this is not an anti-menthing at all.
Um, also, when I when I um whenI had interviewed this woman, it
(34:26):
reminded me that when I waswriting my first book, Ready
Launch Brand, I asked myself thesame thing.
Why me?
Who am I?
What how what do I know aboutall this?
And then I remembered that Icome from literally generations
of entrepreneurs that I've beenan entrepreneur my entire
career, that I've worked withhundreds of founders to help
them integrate marketing intotheir business.
(34:46):
And then that's when I startedsaying, why not me?
And with this book, I will tellyou, I've never once asked
myself why me.
And that I think of that asprogress.
SPEAKER_02 (34:57):
That's fantastic.
I love it.
I think to me, it's reallyspeaking to the depths of the
limiting beliefs that we havewithin ourselves.
And it's like, how many times aday do you stop yourself?
How are you your biggestroadblock?
You know?
SPEAKER_00 (35:10):
Yeah.
That's where a coach helps withthat too.
Yeah.
I can't, I can't, I cannotendorse coach business coaches
enough because I've worked withseveral coaches, and I have to
tell you, it's like you justneed to be reminded every once
in a while, like, you know,we've got this.
SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Yeah.
And I think that too, likecoaches, community, peers, you
know, things like that are so,so important to surround
yourself with.
Um, you've taught at Horton,Drexel, and Penn and Jefferson.
When you're working with womenin academic versus the real
world business settings, whatare the gaps that you're seeing
between what they know and howthey show up?
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
So you kind of alluded to it just now.
Women are great at buildingnetworks.
We're like, we that's thesuperpower I think that every
woman has.
Great at building network andalso very collaborative.
So learning and succeeding,especially in an academic set
setting, it's a group effort.
And I actually taught anentrepreneurship class, two
(36:08):
female students, and every oneof them worked together so that
they could all succeed.
And that's really appreciatedand it's rewarded in academia.
Unfortunately, that mindset isdiscouraged in most business
settings, where winning is prizeover building networks and
(36:29):
lifting others.
It's not about lifting others,it's about getting ahead.
That's uh, and you know, again,I don't want to get into
male-female thinking, but youknow, a lot of these
corporations, you know, that'swhere the male energy is
winning, and the female energyis more about collaboration and
building networks.
And of course, there's also thebias that men can speak up and
(36:50):
be decisive while women areexpected to play a supportive
role, which you've alreadymentioned.
And of course, we've allexperienced what happens when a
woman speaks up during meetingsand a man says the exact same
thing that she just said, andhe's rewarded for that.
And the woman is like sittingthere going, but I just said the
same thing.
Um, I think as more what I'mexcited about as more women
(37:12):
build businesses, that mindsetis starting to shift.
SPEAKER_02 (37:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:16):
And in fact, you know, if you look at the
numbers, the numbers are prettyuh pretty uh interesting.
Um, in 2019, 29% of newbusinesses were launched by
women.
Today that number is somewherearound 50%.
Amazing.
That makes me happy to hear.
I love it.
It's part of the reason why Istarted to focus more on women
after the fact of the pandemic.
SPEAKER_02 (37:36):
You're like growing market strategy, baby.
SPEAKER_00 (37:40):
Outlet of the passion, of course.
Well, obviously, but but youknow, what I find so interesting
is that you know, when I taughtthese women, I do are you
familiar with Amy Cuddy and theand the um she she taught at
Harvard in Harvard BusinessSchool, and she teaches the
warrior pose, you know, whereyou put your hands up, right?
And apparently she did this withstudents, and when you do the
(38:03):
power and you do it only for twominutes before a big test or a
big meeting, or in fact, I do itbefore every conversation that I
have.
Yeah, it gets you focused.
And here's the crazy thing.
So I when I was teaching um atDrexel, it was mostly a mostly
male uh student body in thisclass, and when I mentioned the
Amy Cuddy pose, one young manraised his hand kind of like
(38:27):
shyly and said, If I do thepower pose, does that mean that
someone can take my power away?
Oh, interesting.
Now, when I taught it in the allwomen group, they when they all
at the end of the semester whenthey were doing their
presentation, they formed acircle and they did the power
pose together.
SPEAKER_02 (38:47):
I love it.
That's so cool.
SPEAKER_00 (38:50):
Yeah, it's really interesting.
It still like makes me tear upwhen I think about it.
It's so amazing.
I mean, they you know, becauseat the end of the day, and
again, I don't know this empathypiece, you know, but you know,
at least in academia, what I seeis women really wanting to
support other women.
SPEAKER_02 (39:08):
I think that shift's happening, and I hope it
continues to.
It's one of those things it'slike I get all women are not all
for all women, and some of ithas to do with internalized
patriarchy and societalconstructs and you know, the
scarcity mindset of having lesswomen in power, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_00 (39:23):
But that's the changing, yeah.
It is changing.
Slowly, slowly, but it ischanging, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:27):
And it's like you can't expect it to change all
around unless we start to learnhow to embrace one another.
So I love that you're seeingthat at the academic level.
That tells me that that nextgeneration is really starting to
see that, you know, as anopportunity, as a strength, you
know, the collaboration versusthe competition.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Because you know what, it is a strength.
And in fact, women-led companiesare more successful, and it has
actually been shown.
Data literally supports this.
Yeah.
That if you invest in awoman-owned business the same
level as a male-owned business,you will get a 30% higher return
on your investment.
SPEAKER_02 (40:00):
Which is just wild because it's like those aren't
even odds.
That's just like statistics,like you said.
But then women only get 2% ofventure capital funding.
Exactly.
You guys are missing out, folks.
You're missing out on somemoney.
SPEAKER_00 (40:13):
You're really saying if you're looking about, if
you're looking at this strictlyfrom uh from an ROI standpoint,
you should be investing in everysingle woman on company because
they're gonna, they're gonnabring it back.
SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Yeah, they're gonna bring it back.
I agree.
Awesome.
All right, so you've taught, ohwait, I think I read that one
already.
Yep.
If you if someone's listeningright now, could do one thing
today to make their LinkedInprofile clear or magnetic.
What would you tell them to dofirst?
SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Um, I would I would say um make sure you have a
headline that sums up in onesentence what you do, who you
serve, and what you get, whatthey get.
And stay away from generic termslike coach, consultant, and
acronyms.
Stay away from all that.
Don't explain your process orlist your accomplishments.
(41:00):
Uh what people want to know isnot just what people what your
clients get from you, but I wantyou to start thinking about this
as transformation, notexplanation.
SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Oh, I love that.
Transformation, not explanation.
That's a good note to take, too.
Oh, fantastic.
Well, live listening audience,if you all have any questions,
you can throw them down into thechat for Orly.
I'm going to go ahead and moveon, though, into our power
round, um, which is kind of ourrapid fire questions to kind of
get ready to wrap up oursession.
(41:31):
So, uh, what is one word youwish more women use to describe
themselves professionally?
Expert.
Ooh, good one.
Yes.
Finish the sentence.
SPEAKER_00 (41:42):
Fuzzy messaging is costing women clients and lost
revenue because their prospectsdon't understand the value they
offer.
SPEAKER_02 (41:51):
I love it.
So helpful.
What is the most memorable lightbulb moment you've witnessed
about a client?
SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
Ah, yeah, this is a great story.
So I recently worked with aclient to rebrand her LinkedIn
profile.
And uh, she was uh havingtrouble identifying her ideal
clients.
And as she was explaining herprocess as a fractional
recruiter, she talked aboutbuilding teams and aligning
hires with the company culture.
Her light bulb moment came whenshe realized that her target
(42:20):
market was startups, becausethat's where she brings the most
value.
And incidentally, the number tworeason that startups fail is
because they have the wrongteam.
SPEAKER_02 (42:31):
Yes, oh my gosh.
And hiring is so critical withinstartups.
SPEAKER_00 (42:35):
Exactly.
But she was thinking, like, oh,I need to again, because there's
that mindset of, oh, I'mmissing, I'm leaving people out.
But the truth is now that she'sfocused on startups, VCs,
venture capitalists are now apotential revenue stream because
they found startups.
That's awesome.
And now her new headline isbuilding teams that build
(42:56):
startup culture.
Oh, that's fantastic.
Good for her.
Way to go.
Good for you and her.
Yeah, I mean, it it was it wasreally amazing, you know, just
to see that light bulb moment, Ithink it's part of what, you
know, why I'm so passionateabout this because the shift is
like it's like magical, youknow, like all of a sudden, and
now, you know, instead of justcalling herself a recruiter, she
(43:18):
calls herself a culturecatalyst.
SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Love it.
That's fantastic.
A culture catalyst.
Yeah, that's that's definitely agood example of how you can take
that language and just take itto the next level, which um
actually makes me think to noteto our members, especially that
are listening.
Um, this is so perfect that wetalked about this today.
We just did a masterclass onturning conversations into
clients.
(43:42):
And we talked a lot about withum with our facilitator, Quinn,
about using luxury language inreally not just kind of going to
the default, but really owningwhat you do in the nuanced way
that sounds and feels as premiumas it really should be.
So that's such a goodcomplimentary listen.
Um So after you finish thispodcast numbers, jump into Slack
(44:02):
and see if you can find and snagthat in the masterclasses
channel, that link for theplayback.
All right.
One more question I've got foryou in the power round is what
is the best piece of advice fora woman who keeps saying, I'm
still figuring out how toexplain what I do.
SPEAKER_00 (44:22):
Well, first of all, stop trying to do that.
Ask your clients and yourcolleagues who know you and
understand what you do, not youraunt, you know, on your father's
side who sees you once a year.
No, not that person.
I'm talking about colleagues andclients who've actually worked
with you.
Remember, we don't have all theanswers.
(44:42):
It's exhausting trying to figureit out on your own.
And by the way, this issomething that we as women,
which is it's so amazing to methat we're constantly thinking,
like, well, we should know this.
Nobody knows all of this.
No.
You don't know everything whenyou walk in.
I mean, the whole point of beingan entrepreneur is you figure it
out as you go along.
Yes.
And that's where your networkcomes in.
And remember, I said, you know,women are just champions at
(45:05):
building networks.
There are at least five peoplein your network right now who
can give you that answer.
SPEAKER_02 (45:10):
Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
My tagline, just so you know, my tagline,
Facilitative Lightbulb Moments,it came from a colleague who had
been working with me for years.
And she said to me one day,Orly, I know what you do.
You're a facilitator of lightbulb moments.
I'm like, and I had my own lightbulb moments.
I'm like, what can I say that?
You know, and this is like Ithink I started saying that
maybe like 10 years ago.
(45:31):
So you know it.
SPEAKER_02 (45:33):
And it's stuck and it stayed and it's working.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (45:36):
We're in the jar and we can't see it.
We just can't see the label.
SPEAKER_02 (45:40):
It's a good, it's a good reminder that we don't have
to do it all and we don't haveto do it alone.
And creativity does not work ina vacuum.
Get outside the jar.
SPEAKER_00 (45:47):
Get outside the jar.
And remember, it is not aweakness.
Right?
I hear I heard this from a lotof women I spoke with.
It's like, no, you don't knowbecause we don't know what we
don't know.
And experience, I mean, thereare people out there.
This is why I think sometimeshaving having a board of
advisors is a good idea becauseyou have people to bounce things
(46:09):
off of.
Yep.
You know, joining a masterclass, going, I mean, I'm part
of I'm part of a cohort rightnow, you know, because again,
and I've been doing this a longtime, but you need perspective,
and you can't have perspectiveinside your own head.
And so I'm here to tell everywoman listening, it's okay.
You don't need to have all theanswers.
SPEAKER_02 (46:32):
Yeah.
I mean, that's our motto withTogether Digital is ask, give,
grow.
And it's a really big emphasison the ask.
It's it's a muscle you have tolearn how to build to know even
a lot of times.
We'll wrap up um an in-person orvirtual peer group or an event,
even our conference with our askand give exchange.
And you'll ask women, what doyou need?
How can I help?
And it's just deer andheadlights.
(46:52):
And it's not that they don'thave a million things they
couldn't use help with.
It's just, it's really hard tobe like, okay, this is what I
need specifically, and this iswhat I would hand off and or
delegate because we're just notused to it.
And so it is a muscle you haveto build.
So we're constantly asking themto ask so that it becomes more
comfortable over time.
SPEAKER_00 (47:11):
And don't forget that people love being asked.
SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
They do, they want to help.
SPEAKER_00 (47:16):
It's actually a gift, it's a gift.
I mean, you know, you're notasking them for money, you're
not asking to buy something,you're just asking for that your
opinion.
Who doesn't like sharing theiropinions?
SPEAKER_02 (47:26):
That's good.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (47:27):
Yes.
And so think of it more aboutit's a it's a gift that keeps
giving.
Right?
SPEAKER_02 (47:32):
Yeah, don't deprive them.
SPEAKER_00 (47:34):
Exactly.
And also then you're modelingthis for other women.
You know, um, I think the oneone of the things I've started
doing because I do a lot ofnetworking is before I get into
the room, I think about youknow, what is the one thing that
I can ask and what is one thingI can offer.
SPEAKER_02 (47:50):
I love it.
Yep.
SPEAKER_00 (47:52):
Really, I feel like, you know, this is part of our
our superpower as women, iswe're really good at connecting
other people.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's a blast.
It's a lot of fun.
I love seeing what happens whenpeople get connected.
So this has been fantastic,Orley.
Thank you so much.
Very valuable conversation.
Thank you.
Um, I dropped into the chat,we'll include it in the show
notes.
If you all are curious on waysto connect with Orly, she also
has a clear to fuzzy process.
(48:19):
It's a free monthly webinarcalled the Clarity Hour.
The link for that is in thechat.
So make sure you grab thatbefore we jump off.
Also, it'll be in the shownotes, as well as her LinkedIn,
her website, her YouTube, herhandles.
So anything and everything thatyou need to connect with and get
more Orly time is there for you.
Uh, thank you for everyone who'slistening.
(48:40):
Uh he's listening after therecording.
Orly, thank you again so much.
This has been a blast.
SPEAKER_00 (48:45):
Oh, thanks so much for having me.
I really enjoyed ourconversation.
So um, yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (48:51):
Oh, absolutely.
My pleasure.
And folks, for who those who arestill listening, if you're not
yet a part of Together Digital,come and join us together in
digital.com or a community ofwomen in digital who show up for
each other.
And we would love to have youbecause again, more more people,
more power um to share among usall.
So until next time, everyone, wehope to see you again soon.
(49:12):
And until then, keep asking,keep giving, and keep growing.
Bye.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
Produced by Heartcast Media.
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