April 8, 2026 • 28 mins
In this episode of 'Why Not Me, Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide,' host Tony Mantor from Nashville, Tennessee, interviews Dan Franklin, a passionate autism advocate with 31 years of lived experience.
Dan shares his insights on autistic wiring, trauma responses, masking, scripting, burnout, and sensory processing.
He discusses the challenges faced by autistic individuals navigating a world built for neurotypicals and emphasizes the need for mandatory autism education across society.
Dan also touches on the importance of approaching autistic individuals with understanding and compassion, and how proper autism training can facilitate a more inclusive world.
Meet Dan Franklin: Autism Advocate
Dan's Advocacy Journey
Challenges and Misunderstandings
Learning and Overcoming
Advocacy and Education Efforts
Addressing Misconceptions
Final Thoughts and Contact Information
INTRO/OUTRO: T.Wild
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The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.
Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.
Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.
Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk.
Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided.
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intro/outro music bed written by T. Wild
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental
health worldwide.
Hosted by Tony Middle.
Broadcasting from the heart ofMusic City, USA, Nashville,
Tennessee.
Join us as our guests here withlong, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real-life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracingautism and mental health
worldwide.
Joining us today is DanFranklin.
He's a passionate autismadvocate with 31 years of lived
(01:15):
experience.
He brings deep personal insightand extensive self-driven
research to conversations aboutthe full autism spectrum.
Gifted with a sharp, thoughtfulmind, he speaks candidly about
autistic wiring, traumaresponses, masking, scripting,
burnout, sensory processing, andthe realities of navigating a
world built for neurotypicals.
(01:36):
His mission is clear to push formeaningful, mandatory autism
education across society soautistic individuals are
understood, accommodated, andrespected, not misinterpreted or
overlooked.
He has a wealth of information,so before we dive into our
episode, we'll be back with anuninterrupted show right after a
word from our sponsors.
(01:56):
Thanks for joining us today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
Yes, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
So if you would give us a littleinformation on what you do to
advocate for autism.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Well, I've been doing a lot of autism advocacy
work.
You know, been in contact with,you know, the state senator's
office and a lot of autismorganizations to try to
understand autism more and totry to contribute to, you know,
gaining more mandatory trainingand education with places like
(02:28):
public transit, police officers,prosecutor offices, schools, and
just anywhere in the generalpublic that may encounter folks
on the autism spectrum because Ifeel that it's very
misunderstood.
You know, this world sadly isbuilt around neurotypicals.
And for people like me who arelevel one functioning regarding
(02:50):
autism.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
So when you travels, do you find it challenging?
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
It's challenging because you know you have to
learn these ways to mask autism,so to speak.
But then when you do that, youdon't get viewed as being
autistic from other peoplebecause they just don't
understand how the autisticbrain works or tendencies with
it.
And so I've been doing a lot ofresearch to even understand
myself more, but also tounderstand, you know, how I can
(03:17):
help others understand autism.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
Okay, let's dig into that a little bit.
When was it that you werediagnosed as autistic?
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Well, I was diagnosed with autism at the age
of three, and it's been quitethe journey, as I say.
You know, I've had to learn howto kind of adapt and adjust to
this world and things, and Ijust feel that the system is
broken.
You know, you see so many folkson the autism spectrum that
(03:47):
they're tied up in the legalsystem, and you see just how
much the legal systemmisinterprets and doesn't factor
autism into things.
You know, like even judges Iforgot to mention previously,
they I feel need more mandatoryeducation and training regarding
autism because autism iscompletely different than mental
(04:08):
illness, in my opinion.
And if autism is a factor inthings, it needs to be fully
explained to the right people sothat there's a clear, full
understanding in how autismplays a factor in things, and
that it's not used as an excuselike a lot of people might say
or you know, think or try toportray it as.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
Okay, now you have lived experience, you've been
through a lot of things, you'veseen different things, you have
a good feeling for what's goingon in the world.
There are many people out therethat are trying to learn about
autism.
There are many people that areautistic that are still trying
to learn about autism.
What can you tell them from yourlived experiences that you see
(04:54):
that can help better change theperception of what you're trying
to do?
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
Well, you know, so there was a matter from Island
County four years ago that Idon't really want to discuss on
this podcast just because, youknow, I don't have the plea
agreement in front of me, and Idon't know if it's something I'm
even supposed to talk about.
With everything that happenedregarding that, that matter I
feel has really pushed me topush for change with autism
(05:22):
because autism with my case wasnot factored in, and an expert
was not called in, and that'skind of just where I'm gonna
leave it at and things, but Ican talk to you on a different
time more into detail when it'snot on this podcast.
You know, with being done theways that I was and having gone
through the broken system, so tospeak, it's just opened my eyes
(05:46):
to really see that I'm not theonly person on the spectrum that
has been wronged by the justicesystem and has gone through the
tremendous traumatic experienceand having it affect mental
health decline and just you knowruminating on it, so to speak.
And then years later, justrealizing the ways that autism
(06:06):
was not factored in.
And since then is when I'vereally learned more about autism
than ever before.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
What were some of the things that you learned and
how did you go about learningthem?
Who helped you?
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
When I had met with Doug, you know, a while back,
there were things that I hadtalked with him about,
tendencies like the masking,where it's like you have to find
ways to mask the autism to kindof appear normal and fit in, but
then at the same time, it comesat a cost because then when
there's a challenging, highpressure, over-stimulating
(06:40):
situation, the autistic aspector part in things gets
completely looked past, so tospeak.
And so that part is hard.
But then the other thing is,like I even told Doug too,
people on the higher functioningend can learn to speak normal,
and and all folks in thespectrum have amazing high IQ
and levels of intelligence, butthey can really struggle with
(07:03):
the interaction socially andthings.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Yes, they can have a very difficult time in that form
for sure.
Now, what other things did yousee or hear that you learned
about it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
The biggest thing is is also like the scripting part
as well with it, to where it'slike, you know, there's two
aspects that I like to explainthat I've learned.
You may use words and phrasesthat you've heard other places,
but you may use it out ofcontext or not even know the
meaning.
But because you're feelingpressured to speak or say
something, then you might say itbut not understand it till
(07:36):
later.
But then the other aspect withthe scripting that I like to
tell people is you mayunderstand it, but you may not
know if it's the right time orplace to say it, or if it makes
sense with the conversation ortopic at hand, you know, and so
there's that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
Yes, that's very interesting.
Now, you said there were severalthings.
What other challenges did youfind that were important to be
discussed?
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
The other part that I also talked to Doug about was
the deliberation challenges whenunder duress, you know, and Doug
had explained that when a personon the spectrum is under duress,
there's something in the brainwith the frontal vortex part of
the brain that blocks or cloudsthe ability to deliberate.
(08:21):
In other words, you know, youhave challenges thinking before
you say and do things, but thereagain, if you've at times showed
that you can be intelligent andself-aware, then it's always
expected that you're supposed tobe.
And then so it's just it's verychallenging for people to
understand.
And so I've learned a lot aboutthat, and you know, autistic
(08:43):
burnout and sensory overload andsensory processing issues slash
challenges and things, and adifficult condition to live
with, but at the same time, itcan be a gift in many ways, too.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
What are some of the challenges that you've overcome?
You can sit back now and lookback and say, hey, I used to do
this, but now because ofeverything that I've gone
through, this is how I handleit.
So, what are some of thosechallenges?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Well, I know when I was younger, you know, as I told
Doug before, too, I don't feelthat my brain was as developed
as it is now with, you know,experiences of things and
knowledge and things like that.
Back when I was younger, I feelthat I was more vulnerable and
gullible to being takenadvantage of and things and
(09:32):
being set up and being used andtaken advantage of.
And then as I've gotten older,I've learned to recognize when
that's happening and how to notlet it happen.
The social interactions havealso been very challenging
because I'm a very outgoingsocial creature, but then there
also is times where I get, youknow, overwhelmed because so
(09:54):
much energy gets spent onmasking autism, to where you
can't really put your energyinto use the ways that you want
because you're so focused onmasking.
So then, you know, you havechallenges with like your
interactions with people, andyou know, and this person might
think you're off or notunderstand everything, and then
you might get shut out oroutcasted or not included on
(10:19):
things or whatever, or you mightget talked about, people might
try and slander you to try togain that sort of power and
control and thatnarrative-driven aspect, so to
speak.
And it's hard, you know, and soI've had to do, as I said
earlier, a lot of research aboutautism to not just understand
myself better, but to understandhow I can advocate.
(10:42):
You know, where I met Doug wasat D3, the Decriminalized
Developmental DisabilitiesOrganization, and they have
their once-a-month meetings thatI attend, and they've been
responsible for passing laws andpolicy changes at the state
level regarding autismnationwide, trying to get that
education and knowledge andaspect of things out there.
(11:06):
And so just meeting with themhas even given me so much
confidence to want to, you know,be a part of that, see how I can
talk to like the state senator'soffice and autism organizations
to really open people's eyes onthe real true advanced aspect of
autism that I don't feel hasreally been introduced, and how
it's important to understandthings so that the right support
(11:29):
can be gotten, but also theright understanding can be made,
so to speak.
The legal system is needed ormental health and things like
that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
You've mentioned that you're an advocate and that
you spend time speaking withsenators and legislators.
From those conversations,whether at the state or regional
level, what have you actuallyseen that gives you hope?
And where do you think that thelawmakers can make a very
meaningful difference?
What stands out to you?
What do you see happening thattruly can move the needle in the
(12:03):
direction you need?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Well, it's hard because you know I've talked to
Hayden from Senator PattyMurray's office, and I had
talked to him once before, and Iknow that Doug and people from
D3 were gonna set up anothermeeting to have, you know, us
all meet with him.
Because the thing is, is if youonly have one person that's kind
of pushing for these things,it's not gonna be as likely to
(12:25):
be heard or factored in orrecognized or have things done
versus if you have more than oneperson that's kind of pushing
for these things.
And so, I mean, I've tried to domy part, but we need to get more
voices in on the matter.
And I feel that it's verycrucial that people on the
spectrum are definitely includedin these things because when
(12:46):
they can hear it from the clientthe most and from the autistic
people directly, that's gonnamake some of the biggest
differences out there becausethey can hear from those people
directly and see how it's such achallenging condition to live
with and how easilymisunderstood it is,
unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Yes, that's for sure.
I hear that from every person Ispeak with is that people just
do not understand how you haveto live and what you have to go
through and the challenges thatyou face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
But I feel that just gaining the education about
autism is the first step becauseyou can't really advocate and
push for change and do thethings necessary if you're not
educated to know these things.
And so the biggest thing for mehas been to understand autism
more and the brain and how itresponds under pressure to
(13:37):
certain things or how it mightgive trauma-based responses
because of the past or thingslike that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah.
Now, there are people that workwith police and first
responders, they go out and tellthem their stories and try and
educate them.
Have you done any of that atall?
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
You know, I actually gave a speech at the Bellingham
City Council um back on June23rd at the seven-minute mark.
It was about three minutes longbecause they only allow
everybody three minutes to speakbecause of the amount of people
that want to speak and they wantto get everybody included.
I know that there's this galnamed Beverly who works with the
Ark of Watcombe County, and theyhave been an amazing support and
(14:18):
help to me as well.
I know that there's the Ark ofWashington State that I've even
attended the Zoom meetings for,and there's been the national
arc that I've been in contactwith a little bit, but I know
this gal, Beverly.
She wants to go down to theBellingham Police Department
eventually and bring me with herand kind of educate them about
autism and how to appropriatelyrecognize and respond and how to
(14:43):
de-escalate versus escalate, andunderstand that certain folks in
the spectrum may have hadprevious traumatic interactions
with police, and so if they'reresistant to things, it's not
that there's something to hide,so to speak.
It's clearly a trauma-basedresponse to things, and then
understanding that maybe insteadof sending a police officer,
(15:04):
maybe there needs to be anautism-trained crisis worker.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
I think that's a great idea that you can get out
and give information like thatthat would help so many people.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
I know that's something that I've been trying
to push for as well, especiallyin Washington and hopefully
across the nation.
But I feel that there needs tobe autism foundations built.
Like there needs to be autismtrauma-based, certified
specialists and counselors thatunderstand autism and trauma and
(15:35):
how to best appropriately dealwith them.
There also needs to be specificautism lawyers and things and
whatnot so that people can bebest assisted in things.
There also needs to be a reformwith the justice system.
Like if an autistic person givesa false confession or is done
wrong by the justice system,well, where's their ability to
(15:56):
have justice for being wrongedand having the mental health
suffering and the jobopportunities lost and all these
things?
Where's that ability?
Where's the recognition how theywere wrong?
I've also learned that if anautistic person feels injustice,
they're gonna sit there andruminate, but they're not gonna
stop feeling injustice untilthey can get the justice that
(16:18):
they're seeking.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Yes, those are all good points.
Any other things that you feelthat are needed?
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
I just feel that there needs to be more mandatory
training.
There just has to be, becausethen the general public would
understand how to recognize andwork with it more, but then the
autistic community would feelmore comfortable and
accommodated to and understood.
And I feel that the pain andsuffering would end all around,
but without the proper training,it's not gonna end for as far as
(16:45):
the pain and the suffering goes.
We gotta start doing this, youknow.
And I saw I'm just doing what Ican as far as working with these
organizations and trying to geta lot of people with me to push
for these things, but I can onlydo what I can do, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
That's right.
But the main thing is you aredoing it.
Yeah.
Do you have the opportunity toget together with other people?
This way you can put your headstogether, come up with new,
fresh ideas, then pitch them tothe people that can help make
change.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Yeah, you know, one thing that I've even talked with
Beverly from the Arctic ofWhatcom County here in
Bellingham, Washington about anda few others too, is I've got so
many pages bookmarked andscreenshot about autism and the
brain and executive functioningchallenges and cognitive deficit
challenges and things.
(17:34):
And I want to be able to putlike a meaningful PowerPoint
presentation together for thegeneral public.
And I would love to be able togive it to people and have
people share it with everybodyso that people can really see
advanced aspects of autism, soto speak, that are currently
just not educated or understood,you know what I mean?
And so wanted to do that becausebeing on the spectrum has been
(17:57):
hard.
Being able to find the strengthto interact and do things,
trying to put my sentencestogether and be competent at
times.
And that's the other thing thatI forgot to mention is folks on
the autism spectrum, justbecause at times they can show
amazing instances of competencydoes not mean that they're
always competent right then andthere or at the time that things
(18:20):
occurred.
And so that's another thing thatneeds to be factored into things
is that aspect of things.
But I know that I just tried tobe able to attend these meetings
and do the research because Iknow I feel that the more people
I can talk to, and it's at leasta step in the right direction to
make the right changes done.
Without the right work, it's notgonna get done.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
How do you address this?
I was speaking with a guy aboutsix foot two, two hundred and
fifty pounds.
Really rugged looking guy.
Yeah.
He made a comment to me, and itwent like this.
If I told someone that I hadcancer, they would say, Oh, how
can I help you?
How can I help you?
But if I tell them I'm autistic,they say, You don't look
(19:06):
autistic.
Oh, yeah.
How do you address that?
Here's a guy that looks likeeveryone else, and you try to
explain the differences that hisbrain works, and they just don't
get it.
So, how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Well, so that's the thing.
So it's all about the headspaceand the mindset and things.
So basically, you know, you cantell it to somebody, but if they
are ignorant of autism, as Isay, or want to be and don't
want to understand, then it'snot worth wasting your time and
breath with that person orpeople because you're just gonna
(19:42):
drain your energy and becomefrustrated.
And so it's all about findingthe right people, but then you
also might get frustratedbecause they just simply
misunderstand.
And so then it's like, do youget frustrated and get worked up
and really emphasize that yes,I'm autistic and this is how?
And then when they sit here andthey still are resistant, so to
(20:05):
speak, then it's like you know,you might have an episode, you
might have a meltdown, or youcan just choose to, you know,
whatever.
I'm just not gonna speak to you.
You can say and think what youwant, kind of thing.
And so it's just based upon thecurrent headspace and mindset,
so to speak, how the response isgiven.
And even when I was younger, Ididn't even want to tell people
(20:27):
I was autistic because I wasafraid of you know certain
things happening to me orgetting looked at as off or
whatever.
But as I've gotten older, I'velearned to become comfortable
with it.
And I would hope that by sharingit with people that I have that
they would become sympatheticand understanding.
But unfortunately, that's notalways the case like we would
(20:47):
want.
But the biggest thing is, isI've even been told too, well, I
would have never known you wereautistic unless you told me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Yeah, and I've heard that from so many people I've
spoken with.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
And it's like, well, I wonder why that is, because
you just don't take the time todo the research and understand
autism like me, and you haven'tlived it, and you don't have
someone who's autistic, but alot of the problem is with this
world, is they don't think thatyou're autistic unless you're
non-verbal or you're handflapping, so to speak.
And that's a problem.
And you know, something thatI've even done with like
(21:19):
understanding autism more iseven like an example is people
on the spectrum, especiallylevel one, can get wrongfully
misjudged and assumed to useautism as an excuse, and that's
not true.
So then the simple solution tounderstand it more is do the
research and look it up.
So I'll do things like go on theinternet and search why does an
(21:42):
autistic person get wrongfullyassumed or misunderstood to use
autism as an excuse when that'snot the case, and the answers
are right there.
Why do autistic people getwrongfully accused of
manipulation, so to speak, whenthat's not the case?
It's like the answers are rightthere.
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
Sure, that's the case so many times.
All they have to do is look itup and find out.
Now, where you're autistic, I'msure you've had several times
where you've been overwhelmed,close to a meltdown, or even
having a meltdown.
So, how did you handle that orhow do you handle that when you
feel it coming on?
So that way you can get awayfrom others and handle it
(22:25):
yourself so that they don't havea clue as to what's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
Well, you know, it's it's hard because it depends
upon the headspace and a lot ofthings at the time that things
occur.
And sometimes you get sooverwhelmed that you just cannot
control the episode of themeltdown, or you may have felt
so injustice and misunderstoodthat you may want to leave a
(22:49):
barkish voicemail or send abarkish email, so to speak.
And I was even learning thatwhen an autistic person leaves a
voicemail for a place or sendsan email, it's not with
malicious intent, it's toexpress emotional distress and
not get interrupted or you knowhalted.
And I know that another thing Iwant to include that's important
(23:12):
to things is the problem is withlike when an autistic person
does things like that, it's away to cope with things.
But also when they feel wrongedwith these kinds of things, the
way for them to stop fixatingand ruminating is to kind of get
it out of them how they could orcan and feel heard.
(23:33):
Whereas if they're in directsituation at hand, they might
not have that opportunity.
But then when you go on theinternet and someone else who's
neurotypical minded or justsimply ignorant of autism, you
know, they're not gonnaunderstand these things.
So even something I've done isI've gone on the internet and
searched why does an autisticperson leave a barkish voicemail
(23:54):
or send a barkish email, so tospeak, to a place that they feel
has wronged them or given theminjustice?
And there's a whole list ofthings, and it's not meant to,
you know, necessarily harass,maybe that's a little part of
it, but it's more so to get outthe emotional distress and feel
heard because otherwise they'rejust gonna sit there and
(24:16):
illuminate and fixate on it, andthen it's just gonna consume
their soul and their life.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
In closing, what do you think is important for the
listener to hear about whatyou're trying to do, the message
you're trying to put across toeveryone, not only about your
autism, but about the autisticsociety and what they need so
that people can understand thatthey're just trying to live a
life like everyone else.
What's important for them tohear?
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Well, I think a big thing that I wanted to mention
is the word approach.
You know, the way that youapproach an autistic person is
gonna make a world of differencehow the overall interaction goes
and how they perceive it and howreceptive they can be to what
you're saying and whetherthey're gonna shut down to you
(25:04):
or the situation at hand.
The approach is very key, butthen also there needs to be the
actual generosity to want tohelp people, not just going in
it for you know hidden motives,so to speak, but actually having
it in the heart and soul tounderstand autism and understand
that not all high-functioningautistic people are the same,
(25:26):
not all lower-functioningautistic people are the same.
It's all based upon the level ofsupport, past trauma.
And it's like, you know, if wewant this world and people on
the spectrum to get better andthrive, we need to make it a
safe functioning environment towhere they are understood and
they are accepted for who theyare, and we stop trying to
(25:46):
change them to adapt toneurotypical, you know, world
and society.
Like if a person is in awheelchair, they have to have
accommodations made.
You have to be able to build aramp for them to get up when
there's stairs and they can'tget up at, and they need to be
able to accommodate and build aramp.
Well, where's the same kind ofaspect or approach with people
on the autism spectrum?
(26:08):
It's a big work in progress, butwe just have to keep pushing for
it, you know.
Try to understand autism more,understand that autism is not
just hand flapping andnon-verbal and things, there's a
whole spectrum understandingeverything that goes with it,
and like stop trying to forcethings on them and stop making
(26:28):
them uncomfortable.
Because it's like if peoplewould just let folks in the
spectrum thrive and be able toexpress themselves, they would
be amazed how much intelligenceand high IQ that these folks
offer and possess and how theycan offer so much to the world.
But when they're not given theopportunities, then they just
shut down, they have meltdowns,they go into anti-social
(26:52):
isolation mode, and then theydon't feel like they're helped,
you know, they feel helpless,hopeless, depressed, everything,
and then they never get a chanceto be able to thrive like the
rest of the world, and then themental health decline just takes
over, and then you never get tosee these folks offer these
great things about themselves tothe world.
SPEAKER_00 (27:12):
Now, would you like to have the listeners contact
you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
I would love for that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Okay, give us your contact info then.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
If they want, you know, they can email me at big
dog b-i-g d a w 122-994yahoo.com.
Big dog was my football nicknamegrowing up, even though I've
become accustomed to playingbasketball in recent years.
The rest was just my birthday.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Well, this has been great.
Great information, greatconversation.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to join us today.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
Hey, thank you, Tony.
You have a good rest of your dayand take care.
And yeah, let's talk soon.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(28:13):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing.
Spread the word about why notme.
Our conversations, our inspiringguest, the show.
You are not alone in this world.
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental
health worldwide.
Hosted by Tony Middle.
Broadcasting from the heart ofMusic City, USA, Nashville,
Tennessee.
Join us as our guests here withlong, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real-life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracingautism and mental health
worldwide.
Joining us today is DanFranklin.
He's a passionate autismadvocate with 31 years of lived
(01:15):
experience.
He brings deep personal insightand extensive self-driven
research to conversations aboutthe full autism spectrum.
Gifted with a sharp, thoughtfulmind, he speaks candidly about
autistic wiring, traumaresponses, masking, scripting,
burnout, sensory processing, andthe realities of navigating a
world built for neurotypicals.
(01:36):
His mission is clear to push formeaningful, mandatory autism
education across society soautistic individuals are
understood, accommodated, andrespected, not misinterpreted or
overlooked.
He has a wealth of information,so before we dive into our
episode, we'll be back with anuninterrupted show right after a
word from our sponsors.
(01:56):
Thanks for joining us today.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
Yes, thank you very much.
SPEAKER_00 (02:00):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
So if you would give us a littleinformation on what you do to
advocate for autism.
SPEAKER_01 (02:06):
Well, I've been doing a lot of autism advocacy
work.
You know, been in contact with,you know, the state senator's
office and a lot of autismorganizations to try to
understand autism more and totry to contribute to, you know,
gaining more mandatory trainingand education with places like
(02:28):
public transit, police officers,prosecutor offices, schools, and
just anywhere in the generalpublic that may encounter folks
on the autism spectrum because Ifeel that it's very
misunderstood.
You know, this world sadly isbuilt around neurotypicals.
And for people like me who arelevel one functioning regarding
(02:50):
autism.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
So when you travels, do you find it challenging?
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
It's challenging because you know you have to
learn these ways to mask autism,so to speak.
But then when you do that, youdon't get viewed as being
autistic from other peoplebecause they just don't
understand how the autisticbrain works or tendencies with
it.
And so I've been doing a lot ofresearch to even understand
myself more, but also tounderstand, you know, how I can
(03:17):
help others understand autism.
SPEAKER_00 (03:20):
Okay, let's dig into that a little bit.
When was it that you werediagnosed as autistic?
SPEAKER_01 (03:26):
Well, I was diagnosed with autism at the age
of three, and it's been quitethe journey, as I say.
You know, I've had to learn howto kind of adapt and adjust to
this world and things, and Ijust feel that the system is
broken.
You know, you see so many folkson the autism spectrum that
(03:47):
they're tied up in the legalsystem, and you see just how
much the legal systemmisinterprets and doesn't factor
autism into things.
You know, like even judges Iforgot to mention previously,
they I feel need more mandatoryeducation and training regarding
autism because autism iscompletely different than mental
(04:08):
illness, in my opinion.
And if autism is a factor inthings, it needs to be fully
explained to the right people sothat there's a clear, full
understanding in how autismplays a factor in things, and
that it's not used as an excuselike a lot of people might say
or you know, think or try toportray it as.
SPEAKER_00 (04:31):
Okay, now you have lived experience, you've been
through a lot of things, you'veseen different things, you have
a good feeling for what's goingon in the world.
There are many people out therethat are trying to learn about
autism.
There are many people that areautistic that are still trying
to learn about autism.
What can you tell them from yourlived experiences that you see
(04:54):
that can help better change theperception of what you're trying
to do?
SPEAKER_01 (04:58):
Well, you know, so there was a matter from Island
County four years ago that Idon't really want to discuss on
this podcast just because, youknow, I don't have the plea
agreement in front of me, and Idon't know if it's something I'm
even supposed to talk about.
With everything that happenedregarding that, that matter I
feel has really pushed me topush for change with autism
(05:22):
because autism with my case wasnot factored in, and an expert
was not called in, and that'skind of just where I'm gonna
leave it at and things, but Ican talk to you on a different
time more into detail when it'snot on this podcast.
You know, with being done theways that I was and having gone
through the broken system, so tospeak, it's just opened my eyes
(05:46):
to really see that I'm not theonly person on the spectrum that
has been wronged by the justicesystem and has gone through the
tremendous traumatic experienceand having it affect mental
health decline and just you knowruminating on it, so to speak.
And then years later, justrealizing the ways that autism
(06:06):
was not factored in.
And since then is when I'vereally learned more about autism
than ever before.
SPEAKER_00 (06:13):
What were some of the things that you learned and
how did you go about learningthem?
Who helped you?
SPEAKER_01 (06:19):
When I had met with Doug, you know, a while back,
there were things that I hadtalked with him about,
tendencies like the masking,where it's like you have to find
ways to mask the autism to kindof appear normal and fit in, but
then at the same time, it comesat a cost because then when
there's a challenging, highpressure, over-stimulating
(06:40):
situation, the autistic aspector part in things gets
completely looked past, so tospeak.
And so that part is hard.
But then the other thing is,like I even told Doug too,
people on the higher functioningend can learn to speak normal,
and and all folks in thespectrum have amazing high IQ
and levels of intelligence, butthey can really struggle with
(07:03):
the interaction socially andthings.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Yes, they can have a very difficult time in that form
for sure.
Now, what other things did yousee or hear that you learned
about it?
SPEAKER_01 (07:14):
The biggest thing is is also like the scripting part
as well with it, to where it'slike, you know, there's two
aspects that I like to explainthat I've learned.
You may use words and phrasesthat you've heard other places,
but you may use it out ofcontext or not even know the
meaning.
But because you're feelingpressured to speak or say
something, then you might say itbut not understand it till
(07:36):
later.
But then the other aspect withthe scripting that I like to
tell people is you mayunderstand it, but you may not
know if it's the right time orplace to say it, or if it makes
sense with the conversation ortopic at hand, you know, and so
there's that.
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
Yes, that's very interesting.
Now, you said there were severalthings.
What other challenges did youfind that were important to be
discussed?
SPEAKER_01 (08:00):
The other part that I also talked to Doug about was
the deliberation challenges whenunder duress, you know, and Doug
had explained that when a personon the spectrum is under duress,
there's something in the brainwith the frontal vortex part of
the brain that blocks or cloudsthe ability to deliberate.
(08:21):
In other words, you know, youhave challenges thinking before
you say and do things, but thereagain, if you've at times showed
that you can be intelligent andself-aware, then it's always
expected that you're supposed tobe.
And then so it's just it's verychallenging for people to
understand.
And so I've learned a lot aboutthat, and you know, autistic
(08:43):
burnout and sensory overload andsensory processing issues slash
challenges and things, and adifficult condition to live
with, but at the same time, itcan be a gift in many ways, too.
SPEAKER_00 (08:57):
What are some of the challenges that you've overcome?
You can sit back now and lookback and say, hey, I used to do
this, but now because ofeverything that I've gone
through, this is how I handleit.
So, what are some of thosechallenges?
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Well, I know when I was younger, you know, as I told
Doug before, too, I don't feelthat my brain was as developed
as it is now with, you know,experiences of things and
knowledge and things like that.
Back when I was younger, I feelthat I was more vulnerable and
gullible to being takenadvantage of and things and
(09:32):
being set up and being used andtaken advantage of.
And then as I've gotten older,I've learned to recognize when
that's happening and how to notlet it happen.
The social interactions havealso been very challenging
because I'm a very outgoingsocial creature, but then there
also is times where I get, youknow, overwhelmed because so
(09:54):
much energy gets spent onmasking autism, to where you
can't really put your energyinto use the ways that you want
because you're so focused onmasking.
So then, you know, you havechallenges with like your
interactions with people, andyou know, and this person might
think you're off or notunderstand everything, and then
you might get shut out oroutcasted or not included on
(10:19):
things or whatever, or you mightget talked about, people might
try and slander you to try togain that sort of power and
control and thatnarrative-driven aspect, so to
speak.
And it's hard, you know, and soI've had to do, as I said
earlier, a lot of research aboutautism to not just understand
myself better, but to understandhow I can advocate.
(10:42):
You know, where I met Doug wasat D3, the Decriminalized
Developmental DisabilitiesOrganization, and they have
their once-a-month meetings thatI attend, and they've been
responsible for passing laws andpolicy changes at the state
level regarding autismnationwide, trying to get that
education and knowledge andaspect of things out there.
(11:06):
And so just meeting with themhas even given me so much
confidence to want to, you know,be a part of that, see how I can
talk to like the state senator'soffice and autism organizations
to really open people's eyes onthe real true advanced aspect of
autism that I don't feel hasreally been introduced, and how
it's important to understandthings so that the right support
(11:29):
can be gotten, but also theright understanding can be made,
so to speak.
The legal system is needed ormental health and things like
that.
SPEAKER_00 (11:39):
You've mentioned that you're an advocate and that
you spend time speaking withsenators and legislators.
From those conversations,whether at the state or regional
level, what have you actuallyseen that gives you hope?
And where do you think that thelawmakers can make a very
meaningful difference?
What stands out to you?
What do you see happening thattruly can move the needle in the
(12:03):
direction you need?
SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
Well, it's hard because you know I've talked to
Hayden from Senator PattyMurray's office, and I had
talked to him once before, and Iknow that Doug and people from
D3 were gonna set up anothermeeting to have, you know, us
all meet with him.
Because the thing is, is if youonly have one person that's kind
of pushing for these things,it's not gonna be as likely to
(12:25):
be heard or factored in orrecognized or have things done
versus if you have more than oneperson that's kind of pushing
for these things.
And so, I mean, I've tried to domy part, but we need to get more
voices in on the matter.
And I feel that it's verycrucial that people on the
spectrum are definitely includedin these things because when
(12:46):
they can hear it from the clientthe most and from the autistic
people directly, that's gonnamake some of the biggest
differences out there becausethey can hear from those people
directly and see how it's such achallenging condition to live
with and how easilymisunderstood it is,
unfortunately.
SPEAKER_00 (13:05):
Yes, that's for sure.
I hear that from every person Ispeak with is that people just
do not understand how you haveto live and what you have to go
through and the challenges thatyou face.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
But I feel that just gaining the education about
autism is the first step becauseyou can't really advocate and
push for change and do thethings necessary if you're not
educated to know these things.
And so the biggest thing for mehas been to understand autism
more and the brain and how itresponds under pressure to
(13:37):
certain things or how it mightgive trauma-based responses
because of the past or thingslike that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:43):
Yeah.
Now, there are people that workwith police and first
responders, they go out and tellthem their stories and try and
educate them.
Have you done any of that atall?
SPEAKER_01 (13:54):
You know, I actually gave a speech at the Bellingham
City Council um back on June23rd at the seven-minute mark.
It was about three minutes longbecause they only allow
everybody three minutes to speakbecause of the amount of people
that want to speak and they wantto get everybody included.
I know that there's this galnamed Beverly who works with the
Ark of Watcombe County, and theyhave been an amazing support and
(14:18):
help to me as well.
I know that there's the Ark ofWashington State that I've even
attended the Zoom meetings for,and there's been the national
arc that I've been in contactwith a little bit, but I know
this gal, Beverly.
She wants to go down to theBellingham Police Department
eventually and bring me with herand kind of educate them about
autism and how to appropriatelyrecognize and respond and how to
(14:43):
de-escalate versus escalate, andunderstand that certain folks in
the spectrum may have hadprevious traumatic interactions
with police, and so if they'reresistant to things, it's not
that there's something to hide,so to speak.
It's clearly a trauma-basedresponse to things, and then
understanding that maybe insteadof sending a police officer,
(15:04):
maybe there needs to be anautism-trained crisis worker.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
I think that's a great idea that you can get out
and give information like thatthat would help so many people.
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
I know that's something that I've been trying
to push for as well, especiallyin Washington and hopefully
across the nation.
But I feel that there needs tobe autism foundations built.
Like there needs to be autismtrauma-based, certified
specialists and counselors thatunderstand autism and trauma and
(15:35):
how to best appropriately dealwith them.
There also needs to be specificautism lawyers and things and
whatnot so that people can bebest assisted in things.
There also needs to be a reformwith the justice system.
Like if an autistic person givesa false confession or is done
wrong by the justice system,well, where's their ability to
(15:56):
have justice for being wrongedand having the mental health
suffering and the jobopportunities lost and all these
things?
Where's that ability?
Where's the recognition how theywere wrong?
I've also learned that if anautistic person feels injustice,
they're gonna sit there andruminate, but they're not gonna
stop feeling injustice untilthey can get the justice that
(16:18):
they're seeking.
SPEAKER_00 (16:19):
Yes, those are all good points.
Any other things that you feelthat are needed?
SPEAKER_01 (16:23):
I just feel that there needs to be more mandatory
training.
There just has to be, becausethen the general public would
understand how to recognize andwork with it more, but then the
autistic community would feelmore comfortable and
accommodated to and understood.
And I feel that the pain andsuffering would end all around,
but without the proper training,it's not gonna end for as far as
(16:45):
the pain and the suffering goes.
We gotta start doing this, youknow.
And I saw I'm just doing what Ican as far as working with these
organizations and trying to geta lot of people with me to push
for these things, but I can onlydo what I can do, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (16:58):
That's right.
But the main thing is you aredoing it.
Yeah.
Do you have the opportunity toget together with other people?
This way you can put your headstogether, come up with new,
fresh ideas, then pitch them tothe people that can help make
change.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Yeah, you know, one thing that I've even talked with
Beverly from the Arctic ofWhatcom County here in
Bellingham, Washington about anda few others too, is I've got so
many pages bookmarked andscreenshot about autism and the
brain and executive functioningchallenges and cognitive deficit
challenges and things.
(17:34):
And I want to be able to putlike a meaningful PowerPoint
presentation together for thegeneral public.
And I would love to be able togive it to people and have
people share it with everybodyso that people can really see
advanced aspects of autism, soto speak, that are currently
just not educated or understood,you know what I mean?
And so wanted to do that becausebeing on the spectrum has been
(17:57):
hard.
Being able to find the strengthto interact and do things,
trying to put my sentencestogether and be competent at
times.
And that's the other thing thatI forgot to mention is folks on
the autism spectrum, justbecause at times they can show
amazing instances of competencydoes not mean that they're
always competent right then andthere or at the time that things
(18:20):
occurred.
And so that's another thing thatneeds to be factored into things
is that aspect of things.
But I know that I just tried tobe able to attend these meetings
and do the research because Iknow I feel that the more people
I can talk to, and it's at leasta step in the right direction to
make the right changes done.
Without the right work, it's notgonna get done.
SPEAKER_00 (18:43):
Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
How do you address this?
I was speaking with a guy aboutsix foot two, two hundred and
fifty pounds.
Really rugged looking guy.
Yeah.
He made a comment to me, and itwent like this.
If I told someone that I hadcancer, they would say, Oh, how
can I help you?
How can I help you?
But if I tell them I'm autistic,they say, You don't look
(19:06):
autistic.
Oh, yeah.
How do you address that?
Here's a guy that looks likeeveryone else, and you try to
explain the differences that hisbrain works, and they just don't
get it.
So, how do you handle that?
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Well, so that's the thing.
So it's all about the headspaceand the mindset and things.
So basically, you know, you cantell it to somebody, but if they
are ignorant of autism, as Isay, or want to be and don't
want to understand, then it'snot worth wasting your time and
breath with that person orpeople because you're just gonna
(19:42):
drain your energy and becomefrustrated.
And so it's all about findingthe right people, but then you
also might get frustratedbecause they just simply
misunderstand.
And so then it's like, do youget frustrated and get worked up
and really emphasize that yes,I'm autistic and this is how?
And then when they sit here andthey still are resistant, so to
(20:05):
speak, then it's like you know,you might have an episode, you
might have a meltdown, or youcan just choose to, you know,
whatever.
I'm just not gonna speak to you.
You can say and think what youwant, kind of thing.
And so it's just based upon thecurrent headspace and mindset,
so to speak, how the response isgiven.
And even when I was younger, Ididn't even want to tell people
(20:27):
I was autistic because I wasafraid of you know certain
things happening to me orgetting looked at as off or
whatever.
But as I've gotten older, I'velearned to become comfortable
with it.
And I would hope that by sharingit with people that I have that
they would become sympatheticand understanding.
But unfortunately, that's notalways the case like we would
(20:47):
want.
But the biggest thing is, isI've even been told too, well, I
would have never known you wereautistic unless you told me.
SPEAKER_00 (20:54):
Yeah, and I've heard that from so many people I've
spoken with.
SPEAKER_01 (20:57):
And it's like, well, I wonder why that is, because
you just don't take the time todo the research and understand
autism like me, and you haven'tlived it, and you don't have
someone who's autistic, but alot of the problem is with this
world, is they don't think thatyou're autistic unless you're
non-verbal or you're handflapping, so to speak.
And that's a problem.
And you know, something thatI've even done with like
(21:19):
understanding autism more iseven like an example is people
on the spectrum, especiallylevel one, can get wrongfully
misjudged and assumed to useautism as an excuse, and that's
not true.
So then the simple solution tounderstand it more is do the
research and look it up.
So I'll do things like go on theinternet and search why does an
(21:42):
autistic person get wrongfullyassumed or misunderstood to use
autism as an excuse when that'snot the case, and the answers
are right there.
Why do autistic people getwrongfully accused of
manipulation, so to speak, whenthat's not the case?
It's like the answers are rightthere.
SPEAKER_00 (22:01):
Sure, that's the case so many times.
All they have to do is look itup and find out.
Now, where you're autistic, I'msure you've had several times
where you've been overwhelmed,close to a meltdown, or even
having a meltdown.
So, how did you handle that orhow do you handle that when you
feel it coming on?
So that way you can get awayfrom others and handle it
(22:25):
yourself so that they don't havea clue as to what's going on.
SPEAKER_01 (22:29):
Well, you know, it's it's hard because it depends
upon the headspace and a lot ofthings at the time that things
occur.
And sometimes you get sooverwhelmed that you just cannot
control the episode of themeltdown, or you may have felt
so injustice and misunderstoodthat you may want to leave a
(22:49):
barkish voicemail or send abarkish email, so to speak.
And I was even learning thatwhen an autistic person leaves a
voicemail for a place or sendsan email, it's not with
malicious intent, it's toexpress emotional distress and
not get interrupted or you knowhalted.
And I know that another thing Iwant to include that's important
(23:12):
to things is the problem is withlike when an autistic person
does things like that, it's away to cope with things.
But also when they feel wrongedwith these kinds of things, the
way for them to stop fixatingand ruminating is to kind of get
it out of them how they could orcan and feel heard.
(23:33):
Whereas if they're in directsituation at hand, they might
not have that opportunity.
But then when you go on theinternet and someone else who's
neurotypical minded or justsimply ignorant of autism, you
know, they're not gonnaunderstand these things.
So even something I've done isI've gone on the internet and
searched why does an autisticperson leave a barkish voicemail
(23:54):
or send a barkish email, so tospeak, to a place that they feel
has wronged them or given theminjustice?
And there's a whole list ofthings, and it's not meant to,
you know, necessarily harass,maybe that's a little part of
it, but it's more so to get outthe emotional distress and feel
heard because otherwise they'rejust gonna sit there and
(24:16):
illuminate and fixate on it, andthen it's just gonna consume
their soul and their life.
SPEAKER_00 (24:21):
In closing, what do you think is important for the
listener to hear about whatyou're trying to do, the message
you're trying to put across toeveryone, not only about your
autism, but about the autisticsociety and what they need so
that people can understand thatthey're just trying to live a
life like everyone else.
What's important for them tohear?
SPEAKER_01 (24:42):
Well, I think a big thing that I wanted to mention
is the word approach.
You know, the way that youapproach an autistic person is
gonna make a world of differencehow the overall interaction goes
and how they perceive it and howreceptive they can be to what
you're saying and whetherthey're gonna shut down to you
(25:04):
or the situation at hand.
The approach is very key, butthen also there needs to be the
actual generosity to want tohelp people, not just going in
it for you know hidden motives,so to speak, but actually having
it in the heart and soul tounderstand autism and understand
that not all high-functioningautistic people are the same,
(25:26):
not all lower-functioningautistic people are the same.
It's all based upon the level ofsupport, past trauma.
And it's like, you know, if wewant this world and people on
the spectrum to get better andthrive, we need to make it a
safe functioning environment towhere they are understood and
they are accepted for who theyare, and we stop trying to
(25:46):
change them to adapt toneurotypical, you know, world
and society.
Like if a person is in awheelchair, they have to have
accommodations made.
You have to be able to build aramp for them to get up when
there's stairs and they can'tget up at, and they need to be
able to accommodate and build aramp.
Well, where's the same kind ofaspect or approach with people
on the autism spectrum?
(26:08):
It's a big work in progress, butwe just have to keep pushing for
it, you know.
Try to understand autism more,understand that autism is not
just hand flapping andnon-verbal and things, there's a
whole spectrum understandingeverything that goes with it,
and like stop trying to forcethings on them and stop making
(26:28):
them uncomfortable.
Because it's like if peoplewould just let folks in the
spectrum thrive and be able toexpress themselves, they would
be amazed how much intelligenceand high IQ that these folks
offer and possess and how theycan offer so much to the world.
But when they're not given theopportunities, then they just
shut down, they have meltdowns,they go into anti-social
(26:52):
isolation mode, and then theydon't feel like they're helped,
you know, they feel helpless,hopeless, depressed, everything,
and then they never get a chanceto be able to thrive like the
rest of the world, and then themental health decline just takes
over, and then you never get tosee these folks offer these
great things about themselves tothe world.
SPEAKER_00 (27:12):
Now, would you like to have the listeners contact
you?
SPEAKER_01 (27:16):
I would love for that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:17):
Okay, give us your contact info then.
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
If they want, you know, they can email me at big
dog b-i-g d a w 122-994yahoo.com.
Big dog was my football nicknamegrowing up, even though I've
become accustomed to playingbasketball in recent years.
The rest was just my birthday.
SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Well, this has been great.
Great information, greatconversation.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to join us today.
SPEAKER_01 (27:45):
Hey, thank you, Tony.
You have a good rest of your dayand take care.
And yeah, let's talk soon.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (27:51):
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(28:13):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing.
Spread the word about why notme.
Our conversations, our inspiringguest, the show.
You are not alone in this world.
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