March 11, 2026 • 29 mins
Empowering Lives: Autism, Mental Health, and Healing with Dr. Cochrane
In this episode Dr. Cochrane, a renowned psychologist with over three decades of experience.
Together, they explore the challenges and strategies for addressing issues faced by neurodivergent individuals and those suffering from trauma.
Dr. Cochrane shares her compassionate approach to cognitive behavioral therapy, the importance of self-regulation, and the power of gratitude practice.
Through vivid examples, she illustrates the profound impact of vigilant parenting, therapy, and the critical distinction between feelings and facts.
This powerful conversation underscores the importance of seeking help and fostering a profound understanding of autism and mental health.
Meet Dr. Cochrane: A Renowned Psychologist
Understanding Neurodivergence and Therapy
Addressing Trauma and Emotional Regulation
The Role of Coaching and Therapy
Dealing with Psychosis and Severe Mental Health Issues
Navigating Relationships and Communication
Supporting Children and Teens
The Power of Gratitude and Positive Mindset
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
INTRO/OUTRO: T. Wild
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The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.
Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.
Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.
Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk.
Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:06):
Welcome to Why Not Me, Embracing Autism and Mental
Health Worldwide, hosted by TonyMentor, broadcasting from the
heart of Music City, USA,Nashville, Tennessee.
Join us as our guests sharetheir raw, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, EmbracingAutism and Mental Health
Worldwide.
Joining us today is Dr.
Cochran.
She's a renowned psychologistwith over three decades of
(01:15):
experience in clinical practiceand mental health advocacy.
Known for her compassionateapproach and deep expertise in
cognitive behavioral therapy,she has helped countless
individuals navigate life'schallenges with resilience and
clarity.
She brings a unique blend ofscientific insight and heartfelt
wisdom to her work, makingcomplex psychological concepts
(01:38):
accessible to all.
She has a wealth of informationfor us.
So before we dive into ourepisode, we'll be back with an
uninterrupted show right after aword from our sponsors.
Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Yes, me too.
Great to have you on.
If you would give us a littlebackground, what do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Well, I work with people and relationships, and I
help them get unstuck and I helpthem get away from fear and
avoidance and moving toward whatthey want.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Okay.
Can you expand on that?
Can you give us a littleinformation on the types of
people you work with?
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Well, I work with children and adults.
I work with trauma.
I work with people who areneurodivergent.
I work with couples who areneurodivergent, and I help a lot
with strategizing, problemsolving, and giving options for
basic and sometimes complexpsychosocial stressors.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
When you work with someone that's neurodivergent,
what are some of the issues yousee that can arise?
And then how do you problemsolve it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Well, generally the kinds of things I see are people
whose brains work differentlythan neurotypical people.
And so when they are stressed orthey are faced with a problem,
often their amygdala or theemotional part of the brain
takes over and they startresponding from there.
So they'll get really angry orthey'll cry or they'll just kind
(02:59):
of curl up in a ball and youknow stop.
And they don't know how to dosomething called self-regulation
where you learn to calm yourselfand get your prefrontal cortex
back online so that you can bepresent in whatever it is that's
going on.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Well, that's pretty interesting.
So what led you to do this?
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Well, my undergraduate degree and my
first master's degree are bothin special education.
So I've been working with peopleof all stripes for a very long
time.
I found as I was doing that workthat more and more people were
coming to me with questions andconcerns that didn't really have
to do with spelling or math orany of that.
You know, was how do I solvethis?
How do I deal with this?
What do I do with my child whenthey do this or that?
(03:36):
What does it really mean to haveADHD?
What does autism really looklike?
I'm scared for their future, howdo I plan for that?
You know, those kinds of things.
And so that sent me off into thegiggle weeds of education.
And I got degrees in social workand I did work with traditional
ego psychology and alsotranspersonal psychology.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
When you were getting your master's and you
were getting all these degrees,was you working with a doctor?
Was you teaching?
What was your journey to whereyou are now?
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Well, of course, when you're training, you have
to have supervision.
But once I was able to practiceon my own, then I do supervision
for other people.
And I also help therapistssometimes when they get stuck.
Because sometimes you're workingwith a patient and you're not
quite sure which direction togo.
So I do that.
Primarily these days, I'm doinga lot of coaching with folks.
The reason why I like to docoaching versus the clinical
(04:28):
stuff is because I can coach allover the world, anywhere I want
to.
As far as being a therapist perse, I still bring all my skills
with me, but you can't billinsurance outside of California,
which is where I live.
Those are the rules.
In each state, you can onlypractice in the state you're
licensed in.
So I only do psychotherapyinside California, but outside
and around the world, I docoaching.
And it's so much fun and it's sorewarding.
(04:51):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
So give me the difference between the
psychological part you would doin California and then the
difference of the coaching youwould do in any other state or
any place in the world.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
There isn't any.
You just can't bill insurancefor it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
I bring all my experience and wisdom and
everything with me wherever Icoach, but you can't bill an
insurance company because I'mnot licensed in that state.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
In other words, it's just private pay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Okay, gotcha.
Can you give us an idea of whatsituations that you might take
on?
This way the listeners can get abetter idea of exactly what you
do.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
Well, coming back to the couples thing, a lot of
times I will see aneurodivergent partner with a
neurotypical partner.
And as you might guess, there'ssome miscommunication there, a
lot of uncertainty.
And if there are childreninvolved, that gets even more
complicated.
So opening lines ofcommunication, teaching
self-regulation, talking aboutproblem solving, safe language,
(05:51):
and how to make sure that you'rebeing consistent in what you're
doing versus being not so much.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
What are some of the more difficult situations that
you've had?
You're working with the people,you're working at a surface
level, then you start digging alittle deeper and you find other
issues that start popping up.
How do you handle that?
Carefully.
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Well, generally speaking, people will come to me
with a specific concern.
And as we're working throughthat concern, that's often as
you say, other things kind ofbubble up to the surface.
But for example, someone mightcome to me and they're having
problems in their relationshipor they're having problems in
their parenting.
After a little bit ofconversation, I found out that
(06:36):
person had was sexually molestedas a child or badly beaten or
abused as a child.
And so they haven't been able toprocess that and finish that
piece, and it's interfering withtheir world today.
So the trick is in the work I dois help keeping people in the
now.
Because if you're in the past,you're often depressed.
If you're in the future, you'reoften anxious.
(06:56):
But if you're in the moment, notonly can life be a beautiful
thing, but you can solveproblems and not have them
become future issues.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
For someone that's been abused, that can be
physical abuse, that can bemental abuse.
Both are tough to deal with.
How do you get them past that?
I mean, that's a tough situationto let go of.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
You're right.
It can be for sure.
And depending on how they'vebeen treated with regard to that
issue in the past, can alsocomplicate things.
So, for example, if someone'stried to talk to a parent or a
trusted other about whathappened to them, they were told
that they were a liar or that'sstupid or making it up.
Makes it a lot harder to resolveit than if, you know, they were
taken at their word.
(07:38):
So there are a number of thingsthat you can do.
The biggest and most importantpart in dealing with trauma is
to get control of your amygdala.
And I talked about that a fewminutes ago.
That's the part of your brainthat does emotion.
Now, here's what's interesting.
I love brains, by the way.
I'm a big brain girl.
And what's interesting about itis that the amygdala is very
closely co-located with thehippocampus.
(08:00):
And the hippocampus does memoryand learning.
Now, if we think about it froman evolutionary standpoint,
that's a good thing because weneed to remember where the
people eating animals are moreimportantly than where the
blueberries are.
So our amygdala gets very muchinvolved in our learning.
The problem is that a lot of thethings that happen to us, we
(08:21):
will react as though there'sthis animal that's going to eat
us when it's really only ablueberry problem.
And that's when we get intodifficulty.
The human brain, you see, hasnot evolved in about the last
10,000 years.
So we've got 10,000-year-oldsoftware, 21st century problems.
What could possibly go wrong?
Well, a lot.
And you're seeing it all overthe world right now.
So it's learning how to controlthat amygdala and get the
(08:44):
prefrontal cortex, which is hereat your forehead behind your
eyes, activated again so thatyou can think about what you
want to do versus a kind ofknee-jerk reflexive response,
which is what you're feeling.
And the thing I think I teachpeople the most, and this is so,
so important, feelings are notfacts.
Let that sink in a second.
Feelings are not facts becauseyou feel a certain way about
(09:05):
something does not mean it'strue.
You have to use a testingprocess, and that's where your
prefrontal cortex comes in.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Okay, so if I have a perception that something is
real, then in my mind, it'sreal.
Yes.
How do you get a person pastthat, especially if it's not
fact and they're just runningwild with their own emotional
thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Okay.
So there would be two ways Iwould need to look at that
problem.
One is you may be havinghallucinogenic or psychotic
process.
So my first job is to figure outokay, is everything running
smoothly in your head?
Are you oriented times three, aswe say in the trade?
And if I determine that you are,then my next thing is to help
(09:47):
you understand that you've gotto slow the process down.
Because what happens is youramygdala gets to firing so fast
that eventually it developsneural pathways that bypass your
prefrontal cortex.
So it never gets there.
So you can't resolve theproblem.
So my job is to help you slowthat down so that the prefrontal
cortex can catch up with whatthe amygdala's got going on.
(10:10):
And there are a number ofdifferent ways to do that.
One of them is called cognitivebehavioral therapy.
There's the havening technique,there's EMDR.
There's a ton of different waysto go about it.
But basically, they all focus onbeing able to slow things down
so that you can think your wayinto or out of whatever
situation you're in.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
Okay, so you just brought up psychotic events.
So that would imply that you'veworked with people that are in
psychosis before.
Oh, of course.
So when someone's in a state ofpsychosis or anysygnosia where
they don't even realize there'sa problem, how do you approach
that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It depends on how psychotic they are.
I mean, if they're floridlypsychotic, sometimes all we can
do is sedate them, help themcalm down, and then help them,
you know, get some medicationfor it.
If it's a more mild form ofpsychosis, maybe just a little
bit of paranoia or somethinglike that, I'll just say to
them, Well, here's an example.
So a gentleman came to me, hesaid, I have a problem.
(11:07):
I said, Oh, what problem isthat?
He said, Well, I have all theseghosts at my house.
I need you to help me with theghosts.
And some people do have ghosts.
I mean, I'm not gonna saythey're crazy because that's the
first thing they say.
But then I'll say, Okay, well,tell me about the ghosts.
He said, Well, they're on myfront lawn.
Ah, I see.
I said, What do they look like?
He said, Well, they're kind ofhave on Victorian kind of
clothes, you know?
(11:28):
I said, Oh.
I said, So are there any in yourcloset?
He said, Yes.
And I said, How about coming outof your TV?
Yes, how did you know?
Have you seen them?
I've tried to wake up my wifeand show her the ghosts and she
can't see them.
So we're talking about apsychotic process here, not a
haunting.
So I said to him, you know what?
Sometimes your brain can go alittle wrong.
And when it goes a little wrong,it's a little bit like getting a
(11:48):
short in an electrical wire, andit makes your lamp flick on and
off.
And sometimes, you know, whenyour lamp is flicking on and
off, you can't see everythingclearly.
So there's some medicine that Ican help you get.
We'll talk to your doctor and Ican help you get, and it'll help
the electrical signal workbetter so that your lamp stays
on all the time.
And he said, Really, you can dothat?
I said, Well, not alone, butyes, I can help you do that.
(12:09):
And within about three to fourdays, the ghosts were gone and
he's feeling better.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Yeah, that's a great story.
Now, over the last year or so,I've had a chance to speak with
a few different people aboutthis.
What about the ones that areseeing demons?
And unfortunately, in order tosave that person, they have to
kill the demon.
Unfortunately, they kill theperson.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Oh dear.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
How do you work with those people that are seeing
demons?
They think that everything theyare seeing is real.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Of course.
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
How do you handle that and help that person that
is so far in on what theybelieve?
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
If they're that far in, then we probably need to
call 911 and have them taken tothe hospital.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
That's good in theory.
Unfortunately, some states, whenit gets to AOT, it comes down to
if they are not a threat tothemselves or others, they have
to let them go.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Well, that's true.
However, if a patient is at thepoint where they're seeing
demons, they're going to tellthe doctor about that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
And they're also going to tell the doctor what
they're going to do to thedemons.
I have to kill them, I have tocook them in an oven, I have to
do this, I have to do that.
Yeah, if they're seeing demons,they're going to tell that story
because it does feel normal tothem.
They don't think there'sanything to hide.
Now, there are people who aresuicidal sometimes who will go
in and lie and say, no, I'mfine, everything's fine, my
family's just overreacting, youknow, blah, blah.
(13:31):
So that can happen.
But if you're floridlypsychotic, yeah, we're going to
pick up on it in the year.
SPEAKER_00 (13:35):
Well, we would hope so.
Unfortunately, I have heard alot of horror stories.
Can you think of a situationthat you started out, you kind
of thought it was really notgoing well at all?
You didn't know if you couldhelp them because they just was
not accepting what you weretelling them.
And then finally you hit thattipping point when things just
(13:55):
started turning around, and allof a sudden you had a success
story.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yes, a number of cases like that.
I have to say, you know, aswe're talking about this, it's a
great honor to do what I do.
People put a lot of trust in me,faith in me.
I consider it a spiritualpractice.
It's my way of giving back tothe universe.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
That's a really good way to look at it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
So as we talk about these things, it's important for
your listeners to understandthat I don't take credit for
what happens.
I always tell my patients, youknow, you're driving the bus, I
just have the map.
I can tell you what's going tohappen if you do this or do
that, but you're the oneultimately, you know, who's
going to make the decisions.
So I've had many, many caseswhere someone came to me and
they thought I was crazy or Iwas giving bad advice.
(14:37):
Sometimes it was on a moresevere level, like serious
mental health.
Sometimes it was more justcouples' counseling.
As an example of that, a couplecame to me one time and the wife
was just crying and the husbandwas really angry, and he said,
you know, she doesn't want meanymore, she doesn't want to
make love anymore, she doesn'twant to be close to me, you
know, maybe we need to get adivorce.
And she was just crying so hardshe couldn't talk.
(14:58):
So I taught that couple aboutsomething I call skilled
deference.
What that means is that when aman loves a woman, and I'm
talking for the moment aboutheterosexual couples, but other
kinds of couples take on therole of the more assertive
person or the more nurturingperson, they want to take care
of their partner.
And so early in therelationship, they have certain
ways of taking care of, we'lluse him and her for the moment,
(15:21):
her, and maybe it was chocolatesand flowers.
And then in the 30s, kids camealong, things changed
dramatically.
And what she really needed wasnot chocolates and flowers.
What she needed was time totalk, time to rest, time to take
some of the emotional load ofrunning the household off of her
mind.
But he doesn't understand that.
He's still back when they weredating, trying to give her those
things, and she's not happy andhe's really hurt.
(15:42):
So I said to the gentleman, Isaid, You know, I think right
now what your wife needs is acouple of loads of laundry, a
few meals a week, and some timeto just sit and be quiet for a
little bit.
He said, That's ridiculous.
He said, I've never heard ofsuch bad advice.
I can't believe I'm paid you forthis.
Like, how is that gonna have hermake me sexy again and want to
make love with me?
I said, Okay, well, you know, Ican only give advice, so you
(16:04):
don't have to take it.
So he stormed out, oh, he wasjust madder in a wet hand.
And by the time they got backthe following week, they were
both smiling.
I said, Oh, well, what happened?
He said, Well, it's thedamnedest thing.
I did what you said, and all ofa sudden she wants me again.
So I said, Yeah, okay, so here'sthe key going forward.
For skill deference, you have tobe able to check with you and
your partner and find out whatthey need now and how you can
(16:27):
best provide that.
And you'll be holding hands andclose to one another until you
leave this life.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Yeah, that was a great resolution for sure.
Now, let's bring it back to theautistic world.
I have a person I interviewedabout a year ago.
He was autistic, she wasneurotypical.
In my opinion, they had the verybest way of looking at it.
I'm curious on how your approachwould be.
They looked at it as twodifferent people from two
(16:53):
different countries.
Basically, they had to learneach other's ways of doing
things.
This worked really good forthem.
Now, what are some of the thingsthat you've used to lessen that
gap between the neurotypical andthe neurodiverse and raising
families?
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
Well, I often talk about concentric circles.
So there's the neurotypicalperson on one side, the
neurodivergent person on theother side, and they come
together, and then there's thispiece in the center where they
overlap.
And the trick is that I'mreally, really adamant about
life is never going to look allthe way neurotypical.
Life is never going to look allthe way neurodivergent.
What you have to do is come upwith a common nomenclature,
(17:32):
common language to be able totalk to each other to get your
needs met and get things done inthe relationship.
And it isn't going to look likewhat either of you used to.
It has to be an amalgam of thetwo.
And the work in the relationshipis to develop that language and
ability to be flexible and openand neuroplastic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
Sure.
Yeah, it has to evolve.
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
Yes, absolutely.
Life is a process of becoming,but it's not always such a
becoming process.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
Absolutely.
Now, when you're dealing withadults, I'm not going to say
that it's going to be better,but hopefully they can process
things a little bit differentbecause they are a little older,
lived life a little longer.
What do you do when you'redealing with teenagers?
They can be going throughbullying and all the drama that
(18:23):
goes around them in school andlife in general because things
can just not be so good.
A perfect but unfortunateexample is what happened here
just a little while ago.
An 11-year-old girl that livesjust 10 or 15 minutes north of
where I live committed suicide.
SPEAKER_02 (18:45):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
And the bullies told her how to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
That is the extreme.
Now, how do we get it to thepoint where this can be under
control and doesn't happenagain?
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Well, honestly, the key is vigilance.
You have to pay attention towhere your child is, who they're
talking to, what kinds of thingsthey come home from school with,
what their attitude looks likeabout going to school, how they
feel when they come home.
And you've got to behyper-vigilant about their use
of a computer.
You know, we have to have alicense to drive a car, which is
(19:19):
a very powerful machine that cango quite fast and hurt people.
Computers are incrediblyexponentially faster than that
and can kill people too.
But we don't watch our kids.
We think, oh well, you know,you're 11 years old.
How much trouble you can getinto?
A lot.
You can end up dead, you can endup kidnapped, you can be groomed
by a pedophile.
I mean, all kinds of things.
(19:39):
So vigilance is really what'skey and having regular
conversations with yourchildren.
And I don't mean things likewhen the child comes home and
you say, How is school?
Fine.
What'd you do?
Same old stuff.
Okay, that's not a conversation.
That's a reflective response.
So a conversation would looklike, so how was school today?
Uh fine.
Oh, okay.
Well, what was the what was thebest part today?
Oh, what was the worst parttoday?
(20:00):
When you got to that worst part,what was your plan?
How did you handle it?
Are you still feeling likeyou're not sure about that?
You see, that's a conversation.
And that way I'm digging intowhat's going on.
If my kid is saying to me,so-and-so said you should die,
well, you can bet your buns, I'mgonna be at the school like now.
That is not gonna happen again.
And it's not necessarily aquestion of vengeance, so to
(20:22):
speak.
It's more about no boundariesare called for here and they
have to be set, and my child hasto be protected.
And that other child needssupport and help in learning
empathy because they're stuck,right?
So that's what I'm gonnaadvocate for when I get to see
the principal.
Look, we have to work on bothends of this issue.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
That's all true, but sometimes the child is just very
reclusive and goes into theirshell and doesn't say anything
to anyone, especially theparents.
So, how can you dig that out?
Because sometimes you can digand dig and dig, yet they just
don't say anything.
It could be because they'reashamed of it, they're depressed
(21:02):
because of it.
That's the last thing they wantto talk about is what they're
ashamed of and depressed about.
It's a totally differentsituation than what parents are
used to dealing with.
How do they handle that?
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Well, that's where a therapist comes in.
Because, you know, there arethings children won't tell their
parents, but they will tell thetherapist.
And that is a very powerful,sacred, safe space.
For example, I had a little girlwho came to me.
She had been adopted by thisfamily, and she kept running
away.
She was five and she keptrunning away and asking people,
you know, can I live at yourhouse?
(21:34):
Nobody could figure out what waswrong.
And it took a couple ofsessions, but she finally told
me what her adoptive daddy wasdoing in her bottom.
He was putting things in thereand she didn't like it.
And so she'd sneak out at nightand try and find another house.
Because she'd been adopted once.
She thought maybe somebody elsewould let her be her little
girl.
So, needless to say, I got herout of that situation lightning
fast.
But it wasn't something that shewould tell anybody else, but she
(21:56):
would tell me because she knewand she could feel this.
A safe protective environmentand that her needs and feelings
were first.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Yeah, that's great.
She felt that way.
What do you think is veryimportant that our listeners
hear not only about what you do,but what they need to do and how
you can help them accomplish themindset they need to move
forward.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Well, I think the thing that I want everyone to
know more than anything else isplease, please, please don't be
afraid to ask for help.
Sometimes parents feel like, oh,if I, you know, go to a
therapist or something, I failedas a parent, or you know,
there's something I'm not doingright.
Absolutely not.
The way that we learn ourparenting skills for the most
part comes from our family oforigin.
The family that we're born intoisn't necessarily the family of
(22:42):
marriage or the family thatwe're living with at the time.
And they don't have thoseanswers.
And that's why people like me goto school for a very, very, very
long time and learn how to solvethose problems and teach you how
to do it.
But not teach you with what'swrong with you, you don't know.
This is teach you with supportand caring and the belief.
Because a big part of my job isto believe in people.
(23:05):
You'd be surprised, or maybe youwouldn't, how many people don't
feel believed in.
They don't feel like there'ssomebody who says, Yeah, I know
you can do this.
I know it looks scary and hard,but I know you can do this.
And that's a lot of what I do isto remind them, yes, you can.
And I'm going to give you a newskill that you can apply to the
problem, and you'll be able toresolve it in a new and more
productive way.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Yeah, you just brought up a really good point.
The fact that people do notbelieve that they can do things.
Part of that is because of thatgreen-eyed monster that comes
out, which is called jealousy.
Sometimes people don't want tosee people succeed.
Many times it's because theydidn't have the courage to do it
themselves, so they don't wantthem to do it.
(23:45):
Right.
So, how do you work with aperson that is unfortunately
starting to believe what he orshe is being told?
How do you give them theconfidence so that they'll get
out there and try, even if theyfail?
Because many times when youfail, you learn, and that gives
you the opportunities to do itbetter and succeed.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Well, the first rule to interrupt indoctrination, and
that's what you're talkingabout, is to not allow the
person or the child to beisolated in a group of people
that continues to tell them theycan't.
That's step one is reallyimportant.
The other thing is whetheryou're a child or you're an
adult, I'm going to teach youhow to calm yourself with one of
the techniques that I talkedabout a little bit ago.
(24:30):
And then we're going to begin toimplant new ideas so that you
can make new neural pathways.
You can actually reprogram yourbrain in about 28 days with
something that I call vitamin G,which is gratitude.
Gratitude practice is so easy.
All you have to do is start outyour day and end your day just
running through the things thatyou're grateful for.
(24:52):
For example, I'm so happy andgrateful that I get to do your
podcast today.
I'm so happy and grateful that Iget to see my patients today.
I'm so happy and grateful that Ihave four wonderful therapy
dogs.
I'm so happy and grateful that Ilive on a mountain with all
kinds of trees and water aroundme.
Those would be some of thethings that I would say that I'm
happy and grateful for.
Okay.
Now you might say, well, thatjust sounds dumb.
I mean, what difference is thatgonna make?
(25:12):
Well, the difference that itmakes is as you remind yourself
of those positive things, itshifts you from a mindset of
paucity, which is there's notenough and it probably isn't
going to work, into a mindset ofplenty and that I'm only limited
by my imagination.
So what you begin to see as youmove through the 28 days is
you'll notice, yeah, you know,this this used to bother me a
(25:33):
lot, but it doesn't bother me somuch anymore.
Or this used to really set meoff and yeah, I didn't even
notice it.
You begin to become moresanguine and calm, and your
prefrontal cortex is now incontrol instead of your
amygdala.
Now, let me say this in thebeginning, if you're feeling
crummy, it can be hard to comeup with things you're grateful
for.
And that's okay, it's normal,but just pick something.
(25:55):
I'm so happy and grateful I havepurple dinosaur socks or just
anything you can think of,right?
And you'll find as the days goalong that the list gets longer
and longer, and you'll feelbetter and better.
And pretty soon, as I said,after about 28, 30 days, you'll
notice wow, my outlook'sdifferent.
It works for depression, itworks for anxiety, it works with
people who are dealing withneurodivergent issues, it works
(26:16):
for everybody, but it only worksif you do it.
Take your vitamin G twice a day.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Yeah, that's great and sound advice.
Now, stop and think about this.
Someone that's 25, 35, 45, itdoesn't really matter.
They've lived their life, goodor bad.
They can be out there working,feeling good about everything,
and then all of a sudden, boom,something just reminds them of
(26:42):
something bad.
It triggers that switch thatjust takes away everything that
they've been working for thatday to feel positive.
How do you stop that switch frombeing flipped on?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
You tell them about it.
Look, this is likely to happento you in the early days of what
you're doing.
You're likely, you know,everything is um, most people
have heard of the learningcurve, right?
You you go forward and then yougo back a little bit.
You go forward and then you goback a little bit.
That's normal.
You're not failing, you're notbad, you're not unsuccessful.
It just means that you're goingthrough your learning process.
If we talk about addictions, forexample, and someone has a
(27:15):
lapse, a lapse is a teachingmoment.
It says, ah, okay, you weren'ttaking care of yourself the way
you need to take care of it.
Let's look at that.
What did we miss?
What do we need to dodifferently?
So it's not about failure, it'sabout, okay, that was a learning
tool.
You can't have success withoutfailure.
So preparing people for that,helping them understand is kind
of like the waves of the ocean,right?
It goes out, it comes in.
It goes out, it comes in.
(27:36):
That's just the nature ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree.
Now, is there anything that wehaven't touched upon that we
need to?
Well, that's a big question,isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Uh let's see.
No, actually, I I I think you'veI think you've done a good job.
I want to pivot back to, though,to remind folks that feelings
are not facts.
And here's a way to break thatdown.
Slowing the process down, as Italked about before, is very
helpful.
So get yourself a piece of paperand make three columns.
Column one, you write down whatit is that's bothering you.
(28:07):
The worry thing, right?
Column two is okay, whatevidence do I have that that is
true?
And column three is what would Itell a person who came to me
with this problem or concern?
Most people give excellentadvice, they just don't take it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Yeah, that's just so true.
Well, this has been great.
Great information, greatconversation.
I really appreciate your takingthe time to join us today.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It was fun.
SPEAKER_00 (28:35):
Yes, it was my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(28:58):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing, spread the wordabout why not me.
Our conversations, our inspiringguests, the show.
You are not alone in this world.
Welcome to Why Not Me, Embracing Autism and Mental
Health Worldwide, hosted by TonyMentor, broadcasting from the
heart of Music City, USA,Nashville, Tennessee.
Join us as our guests sharetheir raw, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, EmbracingAutism and Mental Health
Worldwide.
Joining us today is Dr.
Cochran.
She's a renowned psychologistwith over three decades of
(01:15):
experience in clinical practiceand mental health advocacy.
Known for her compassionateapproach and deep expertise in
cognitive behavioral therapy,she has helped countless
individuals navigate life'schallenges with resilience and
clarity.
She brings a unique blend ofscientific insight and heartfelt
wisdom to her work, makingcomplex psychological concepts
(01:38):
accessible to all.
She has a wealth of informationfor us.
So before we dive into ourepisode, we'll be back with an
uninterrupted show right after aword from our sponsors.
Thanks for coming on.
SPEAKER_01 (01:49):
I'm excited.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
Yes, me too.
Great to have you on.
If you would give us a littlebackground, what do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
Well, I work with people and relationships, and I
help them get unstuck and I helpthem get away from fear and
avoidance and moving toward whatthey want.
SPEAKER_00 (02:05):
Okay.
Can you expand on that?
Can you give us a littleinformation on the types of
people you work with?
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Well, I work with children and adults.
I work with trauma.
I work with people who areneurodivergent.
I work with couples who areneurodivergent, and I help a lot
with strategizing, problemsolving, and giving options for
basic and sometimes complexpsychosocial stressors.
SPEAKER_00 (02:28):
When you work with someone that's neurodivergent,
what are some of the issues yousee that can arise?
And then how do you problemsolve it?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
Well, generally the kinds of things I see are people
whose brains work differentlythan neurotypical people.
And so when they are stressed orthey are faced with a problem,
often their amygdala or theemotional part of the brain
takes over and they startresponding from there.
So they'll get really angry orthey'll cry or they'll just kind
(02:59):
of curl up in a ball and youknow stop.
And they don't know how to dosomething called self-regulation
where you learn to calm yourselfand get your prefrontal cortex
back online so that you can bepresent in whatever it is that's
going on.
SPEAKER_00 (03:11):
Well, that's pretty interesting.
So what led you to do this?
SPEAKER_01 (03:15):
Well, my undergraduate degree and my
first master's degree are bothin special education.
So I've been working with peopleof all stripes for a very long
time.
I found as I was doing that workthat more and more people were
coming to me with questions andconcerns that didn't really have
to do with spelling or math orany of that.
You know, was how do I solvethis?
How do I deal with this?
What do I do with my child whenthey do this or that?
(03:36):
What does it really mean to haveADHD?
What does autism really looklike?
I'm scared for their future, howdo I plan for that?
You know, those kinds of things.
And so that sent me off into thegiggle weeds of education.
And I got degrees in social workand I did work with traditional
ego psychology and alsotranspersonal psychology.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
When you were getting your master's and you
were getting all these degrees,was you working with a doctor?
Was you teaching?
What was your journey to whereyou are now?
SPEAKER_01 (04:06):
Well, of course, when you're training, you have
to have supervision.
But once I was able to practiceon my own, then I do supervision
for other people.
And I also help therapistssometimes when they get stuck.
Because sometimes you're workingwith a patient and you're not
quite sure which direction togo.
So I do that.
Primarily these days, I'm doinga lot of coaching with folks.
The reason why I like to docoaching versus the clinical
(04:28):
stuff is because I can coach allover the world, anywhere I want
to.
As far as being a therapist perse, I still bring all my skills
with me, but you can't billinsurance outside of California,
which is where I live.
Those are the rules.
In each state, you can onlypractice in the state you're
licensed in.
So I only do psychotherapyinside California, but outside
and around the world, I docoaching.
And it's so much fun and it's sorewarding.
(04:51):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
So give me the difference between the
psychological part you would doin California and then the
difference of the coaching youwould do in any other state or
any place in the world.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
There isn't any.
You just can't bill insurancefor it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:05):
I bring all my experience and wisdom and
everything with me wherever Icoach, but you can't bill an
insurance company because I'mnot licensed in that state.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
In other words, it's just private pay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:16):
Yes, correct.
SPEAKER_00 (05:17):
Okay, gotcha.
Can you give us an idea of whatsituations that you might take
on?
This way the listeners can get abetter idea of exactly what you
do.
SPEAKER_01 (05:28):
Well, coming back to the couples thing, a lot of
times I will see aneurodivergent partner with a
neurotypical partner.
And as you might guess, there'ssome miscommunication there, a
lot of uncertainty.
And if there are childreninvolved, that gets even more
complicated.
So opening lines ofcommunication, teaching
self-regulation, talking aboutproblem solving, safe language,
(05:51):
and how to make sure that you'rebeing consistent in what you're
doing versus being not so much.
SPEAKER_00 (05:58):
What are some of the more difficult situations that
you've had?
You're working with the people,you're working at a surface
level, then you start digging alittle deeper and you find other
issues that start popping up.
How do you handle that?
Carefully.
Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_01 (06:16):
Well, generally speaking, people will come to me
with a specific concern.
And as we're working throughthat concern, that's often as
you say, other things kind ofbubble up to the surface.
But for example, someone mightcome to me and they're having
problems in their relationshipor they're having problems in
their parenting.
After a little bit ofconversation, I found out that
(06:36):
person had was sexually molestedas a child or badly beaten or
abused as a child.
And so they haven't been able toprocess that and finish that
piece, and it's interfering withtheir world today.
So the trick is in the work I dois help keeping people in the
now.
Because if you're in the past,you're often depressed.
If you're in the future, you'reoften anxious.
(06:56):
But if you're in the moment, notonly can life be a beautiful
thing, but you can solveproblems and not have them
become future issues.
SPEAKER_00 (07:04):
For someone that's been abused, that can be
physical abuse, that can bemental abuse.
Both are tough to deal with.
How do you get them past that?
I mean, that's a tough situationto let go of.
SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
You're right.
It can be for sure.
And depending on how they'vebeen treated with regard to that
issue in the past, can alsocomplicate things.
So, for example, if someone'stried to talk to a parent or a
trusted other about whathappened to them, they were told
that they were a liar or that'sstupid or making it up.
Makes it a lot harder to resolveit than if, you know, they were
taken at their word.
(07:38):
So there are a number of thingsthat you can do.
The biggest and most importantpart in dealing with trauma is
to get control of your amygdala.
And I talked about that a fewminutes ago.
That's the part of your brainthat does emotion.
Now, here's what's interesting.
I love brains, by the way.
I'm a big brain girl.
And what's interesting about itis that the amygdala is very
closely co-located with thehippocampus.
(08:00):
And the hippocampus does memoryand learning.
Now, if we think about it froman evolutionary standpoint,
that's a good thing because weneed to remember where the
people eating animals are moreimportantly than where the
blueberries are.
So our amygdala gets very muchinvolved in our learning.
The problem is that a lot of thethings that happen to us, we
(08:21):
will react as though there'sthis animal that's going to eat
us when it's really only ablueberry problem.
And that's when we get intodifficulty.
The human brain, you see, hasnot evolved in about the last
10,000 years.
So we've got 10,000-year-oldsoftware, 21st century problems.
What could possibly go wrong?
Well, a lot.
And you're seeing it all overthe world right now.
So it's learning how to controlthat amygdala and get the
(08:44):
prefrontal cortex, which is hereat your forehead behind your
eyes, activated again so thatyou can think about what you
want to do versus a kind ofknee-jerk reflexive response,
which is what you're feeling.
And the thing I think I teachpeople the most, and this is so,
so important, feelings are notfacts.
Let that sink in a second.
Feelings are not facts becauseyou feel a certain way about
(09:05):
something does not mean it'strue.
You have to use a testingprocess, and that's where your
prefrontal cortex comes in.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Okay, so if I have a perception that something is
real, then in my mind, it'sreal.
Yes.
How do you get a person pastthat, especially if it's not
fact and they're just runningwild with their own emotional
thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (09:26):
Okay.
So there would be two ways Iwould need to look at that
problem.
One is you may be havinghallucinogenic or psychotic
process.
So my first job is to figure outokay, is everything running
smoothly in your head?
Are you oriented times three, aswe say in the trade?
And if I determine that you are,then my next thing is to help
(09:47):
you understand that you've gotto slow the process down.
Because what happens is youramygdala gets to firing so fast
that eventually it developsneural pathways that bypass your
prefrontal cortex.
So it never gets there.
So you can't resolve theproblem.
So my job is to help you slowthat down so that the prefrontal
cortex can catch up with whatthe amygdala's got going on.
(10:10):
And there are a number ofdifferent ways to do that.
One of them is called cognitivebehavioral therapy.
There's the havening technique,there's EMDR.
There's a ton of different waysto go about it.
But basically, they all focus onbeing able to slow things down
so that you can think your wayinto or out of whatever
situation you're in.
SPEAKER_00 (10:29):
Okay, so you just brought up psychotic events.
So that would imply that you'veworked with people that are in
psychosis before.
Oh, of course.
So when someone's in a state ofpsychosis or anysygnosia where
they don't even realize there'sa problem, how do you approach
that?
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It depends on how psychotic they are.
I mean, if they're floridlypsychotic, sometimes all we can
do is sedate them, help themcalm down, and then help them,
you know, get some medicationfor it.
If it's a more mild form ofpsychosis, maybe just a little
bit of paranoia or somethinglike that, I'll just say to
them, Well, here's an example.
So a gentleman came to me, hesaid, I have a problem.
(11:07):
I said, Oh, what problem isthat?
He said, Well, I have all theseghosts at my house.
I need you to help me with theghosts.
And some people do have ghosts.
I mean, I'm not gonna saythey're crazy because that's the
first thing they say.
But then I'll say, Okay, well,tell me about the ghosts.
He said, Well, they're on myfront lawn.
Ah, I see.
I said, What do they look like?
He said, Well, they're kind ofhave on Victorian kind of
clothes, you know?
(11:28):
I said, Oh.
I said, So are there any in yourcloset?
He said, Yes.
And I said, How about coming outof your TV?
Yes, how did you know?
Have you seen them?
I've tried to wake up my wifeand show her the ghosts and she
can't see them.
So we're talking about apsychotic process here, not a
haunting.
So I said to him, you know what?
Sometimes your brain can go alittle wrong.
And when it goes a little wrong,it's a little bit like getting a
(11:48):
short in an electrical wire, andit makes your lamp flick on and
off.
And sometimes, you know, whenyour lamp is flicking on and
off, you can't see everythingclearly.
So there's some medicine that Ican help you get.
We'll talk to your doctor and Ican help you get, and it'll help
the electrical signal workbetter so that your lamp stays
on all the time.
And he said, Really, you can dothat?
I said, Well, not alone, butyes, I can help you do that.
(12:09):
And within about three to fourdays, the ghosts were gone and
he's feeling better.
SPEAKER_00 (12:13):
Yeah, that's a great story.
Now, over the last year or so,I've had a chance to speak with
a few different people aboutthis.
What about the ones that areseeing demons?
And unfortunately, in order tosave that person, they have to
kill the demon.
Unfortunately, they kill theperson.
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
Oh dear.
SPEAKER_00 (12:31):
How do you work with those people that are seeing
demons?
They think that everything theyare seeing is real.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Of course.
Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
How do you handle that and help that person that
is so far in on what theybelieve?
SPEAKER_01 (12:45):
If they're that far in, then we probably need to
call 911 and have them taken tothe hospital.
SPEAKER_00 (12:51):
That's good in theory.
Unfortunately, some states, whenit gets to AOT, it comes down to
if they are not a threat tothemselves or others, they have
to let them go.
SPEAKER_01 (13:02):
Well, that's true.
However, if a patient is at thepoint where they're seeing
demons, they're going to tellthe doctor about that.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Maybe.
SPEAKER_01 (13:09):
And they're also going to tell the doctor what
they're going to do to thedemons.
I have to kill them, I have tocook them in an oven, I have to
do this, I have to do that.
Yeah, if they're seeing demons,they're going to tell that story
because it does feel normal tothem.
They don't think there'sanything to hide.
Now, there are people who aresuicidal sometimes who will go
in and lie and say, no, I'mfine, everything's fine, my
family's just overreacting, youknow, blah, blah.
(13:31):
So that can happen.
But if you're floridlypsychotic, yeah, we're going to
pick up on it in the year.
SPEAKER_00 (13:35):
Well, we would hope so.
Unfortunately, I have heard alot of horror stories.
Can you think of a situationthat you started out, you kind
of thought it was really notgoing well at all?
You didn't know if you couldhelp them because they just was
not accepting what you weretelling them.
And then finally you hit thattipping point when things just
(13:55):
started turning around, and allof a sudden you had a success
story.
SPEAKER_01 (13:59):
Yes, a number of cases like that.
I have to say, you know, aswe're talking about this, it's a
great honor to do what I do.
People put a lot of trust in me,faith in me.
I consider it a spiritualpractice.
It's my way of giving back tothe universe.
SPEAKER_00 (14:12):
That's a really good way to look at it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:15):
So as we talk about these things, it's important for
your listeners to understandthat I don't take credit for
what happens.
I always tell my patients, youknow, you're driving the bus, I
just have the map.
I can tell you what's going tohappen if you do this or do
that, but you're the oneultimately, you know, who's
going to make the decisions.
So I've had many, many caseswhere someone came to me and
they thought I was crazy or Iwas giving bad advice.
(14:37):
Sometimes it was on a moresevere level, like serious
mental health.
Sometimes it was more justcouples' counseling.
As an example of that, a couplecame to me one time and the wife
was just crying and the husbandwas really angry, and he said,
you know, she doesn't want meanymore, she doesn't want to
make love anymore, she doesn'twant to be close to me, you
know, maybe we need to get adivorce.
And she was just crying so hardshe couldn't talk.
(14:58):
So I taught that couple aboutsomething I call skilled
deference.
What that means is that when aman loves a woman, and I'm
talking for the moment aboutheterosexual couples, but other
kinds of couples take on therole of the more assertive
person or the more nurturingperson, they want to take care
of their partner.
And so early in therelationship, they have certain
ways of taking care of, we'lluse him and her for the moment,
(15:21):
her, and maybe it was chocolatesand flowers.
And then in the 30s, kids camealong, things changed
dramatically.
And what she really needed wasnot chocolates and flowers.
What she needed was time totalk, time to rest, time to take
some of the emotional load ofrunning the household off of her
mind.
But he doesn't understand that.
He's still back when they weredating, trying to give her those
things, and she's not happy andhe's really hurt.
(15:42):
So I said to the gentleman, Isaid, You know, I think right
now what your wife needs is acouple of loads of laundry, a
few meals a week, and some timeto just sit and be quiet for a
little bit.
He said, That's ridiculous.
He said, I've never heard ofsuch bad advice.
I can't believe I'm paid you forthis.
Like, how is that gonna have hermake me sexy again and want to
make love with me?
I said, Okay, well, you know, Ican only give advice, so you
(16:04):
don't have to take it.
So he stormed out, oh, he wasjust madder in a wet hand.
And by the time they got backthe following week, they were
both smiling.
I said, Oh, well, what happened?
He said, Well, it's thedamnedest thing.
I did what you said, and all ofa sudden she wants me again.
So I said, Yeah, okay, so here'sthe key going forward.
For skill deference, you have tobe able to check with you and
your partner and find out whatthey need now and how you can
(16:27):
best provide that.
And you'll be holding hands andclose to one another until you
leave this life.
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
Yeah, that was a great resolution for sure.
Now, let's bring it back to theautistic world.
I have a person I interviewedabout a year ago.
He was autistic, she wasneurotypical.
In my opinion, they had the verybest way of looking at it.
I'm curious on how your approachwould be.
They looked at it as twodifferent people from two
(16:53):
different countries.
Basically, they had to learneach other's ways of doing
things.
This worked really good forthem.
Now, what are some of the thingsthat you've used to lessen that
gap between the neurotypical andthe neurodiverse and raising
families?
SPEAKER_01 (17:11):
Well, I often talk about concentric circles.
So there's the neurotypicalperson on one side, the
neurodivergent person on theother side, and they come
together, and then there's thispiece in the center where they
overlap.
And the trick is that I'mreally, really adamant about
life is never going to look allthe way neurotypical.
Life is never going to look allthe way neurodivergent.
What you have to do is come upwith a common nomenclature,
(17:32):
common language to be able totalk to each other to get your
needs met and get things done inthe relationship.
And it isn't going to look likewhat either of you used to.
It has to be an amalgam of thetwo.
And the work in the relationshipis to develop that language and
ability to be flexible and openand neuroplastic.
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
Sure.
Yeah, it has to evolve.
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
Yes, absolutely.
Life is a process of becoming,but it's not always such a
becoming process.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
Absolutely.
Now, when you're dealing withadults, I'm not going to say
that it's going to be better,but hopefully they can process
things a little bit differentbecause they are a little older,
lived life a little longer.
What do you do when you'redealing with teenagers?
They can be going throughbullying and all the drama that
(18:23):
goes around them in school andlife in general because things
can just not be so good.
A perfect but unfortunateexample is what happened here
just a little while ago.
An 11-year-old girl that livesjust 10 or 15 minutes north of
where I live committed suicide.
SPEAKER_02 (18:45):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
And the bullies told her how to do it.
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (18:49):
That is the extreme.
Now, how do we get it to thepoint where this can be under
control and doesn't happenagain?
SPEAKER_01 (18:58):
Well, honestly, the key is vigilance.
You have to pay attention towhere your child is, who they're
talking to, what kinds of thingsthey come home from school with,
what their attitude looks likeabout going to school, how they
feel when they come home.
And you've got to behyper-vigilant about their use
of a computer.
You know, we have to have alicense to drive a car, which is
(19:19):
a very powerful machine that cango quite fast and hurt people.
Computers are incrediblyexponentially faster than that
and can kill people too.
But we don't watch our kids.
We think, oh well, you know,you're 11 years old.
How much trouble you can getinto?
A lot.
You can end up dead, you can endup kidnapped, you can be groomed
by a pedophile.
I mean, all kinds of things.
(19:39):
So vigilance is really what'skey and having regular
conversations with yourchildren.
And I don't mean things likewhen the child comes home and
you say, How is school?
Fine.
What'd you do?
Same old stuff.
Okay, that's not a conversation.
That's a reflective response.
So a conversation would looklike, so how was school today?
Uh fine.
Oh, okay.
Well, what was the what was thebest part today?
Oh, what was the worst parttoday?
(20:00):
When you got to that worst part,what was your plan?
How did you handle it?
Are you still feeling likeyou're not sure about that?
You see, that's a conversation.
And that way I'm digging intowhat's going on.
If my kid is saying to me,so-and-so said you should die,
well, you can bet your buns, I'mgonna be at the school like now.
That is not gonna happen again.
And it's not necessarily aquestion of vengeance, so to
(20:22):
speak.
It's more about no boundariesare called for here and they
have to be set, and my child hasto be protected.
And that other child needssupport and help in learning
empathy because they're stuck,right?
So that's what I'm gonnaadvocate for when I get to see
the principal.
Look, we have to work on bothends of this issue.
SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
That's all true, but sometimes the child is just very
reclusive and goes into theirshell and doesn't say anything
to anyone, especially theparents.
So, how can you dig that out?
Because sometimes you can digand dig and dig, yet they just
don't say anything.
It could be because they'reashamed of it, they're depressed
(21:02):
because of it.
That's the last thing they wantto talk about is what they're
ashamed of and depressed about.
It's a totally differentsituation than what parents are
used to dealing with.
How do they handle that?
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Well, that's where a therapist comes in.
Because, you know, there arethings children won't tell their
parents, but they will tell thetherapist.
And that is a very powerful,sacred, safe space.
For example, I had a little girlwho came to me.
She had been adopted by thisfamily, and she kept running
away.
She was five and she keptrunning away and asking people,
you know, can I live at yourhouse?
(21:34):
Nobody could figure out what waswrong.
And it took a couple ofsessions, but she finally told
me what her adoptive daddy wasdoing in her bottom.
He was putting things in thereand she didn't like it.
And so she'd sneak out at nightand try and find another house.
Because she'd been adopted once.
She thought maybe somebody elsewould let her be her little
girl.
So, needless to say, I got herout of that situation lightning
fast.
But it wasn't something that shewould tell anybody else, but she
(21:56):
would tell me because she knewand she could feel this.
A safe protective environmentand that her needs and feelings
were first.
SPEAKER_00 (22:03):
Yeah, that's great.
She felt that way.
What do you think is veryimportant that our listeners
hear not only about what you do,but what they need to do and how
you can help them accomplish themindset they need to move
forward.
SPEAKER_01 (22:20):
Well, I think the thing that I want everyone to
know more than anything else isplease, please, please don't be
afraid to ask for help.
Sometimes parents feel like, oh,if I, you know, go to a
therapist or something, I failedas a parent, or you know,
there's something I'm not doingright.
Absolutely not.
The way that we learn ourparenting skills for the most
part comes from our family oforigin.
The family that we're born intoisn't necessarily the family of
(22:42):
marriage or the family thatwe're living with at the time.
And they don't have thoseanswers.
And that's why people like me goto school for a very, very, very
long time and learn how to solvethose problems and teach you how
to do it.
But not teach you with what'swrong with you, you don't know.
This is teach you with supportand caring and the belief.
Because a big part of my job isto believe in people.
(23:05):
You'd be surprised, or maybe youwouldn't, how many people don't
feel believed in.
They don't feel like there'ssomebody who says, Yeah, I know
you can do this.
I know it looks scary and hard,but I know you can do this.
And that's a lot of what I do isto remind them, yes, you can.
And I'm going to give you a newskill that you can apply to the
problem, and you'll be able toresolve it in a new and more
productive way.
SPEAKER_00 (23:24):
Yeah, you just brought up a really good point.
The fact that people do notbelieve that they can do things.
Part of that is because of thatgreen-eyed monster that comes
out, which is called jealousy.
Sometimes people don't want tosee people succeed.
Many times it's because theydidn't have the courage to do it
themselves, so they don't wantthem to do it.
(23:45):
Right.
So, how do you work with aperson that is unfortunately
starting to believe what he orshe is being told?
How do you give them theconfidence so that they'll get
out there and try, even if theyfail?
Because many times when youfail, you learn, and that gives
you the opportunities to do itbetter and succeed.
SPEAKER_01 (24:09):
Well, the first rule to interrupt indoctrination, and
that's what you're talkingabout, is to not allow the
person or the child to beisolated in a group of people
that continues to tell them theycan't.
That's step one is reallyimportant.
The other thing is whetheryou're a child or you're an
adult, I'm going to teach youhow to calm yourself with one of
the techniques that I talkedabout a little bit ago.
(24:30):
And then we're going to begin toimplant new ideas so that you
can make new neural pathways.
You can actually reprogram yourbrain in about 28 days with
something that I call vitamin G,which is gratitude.
Gratitude practice is so easy.
All you have to do is start outyour day and end your day just
running through the things thatyou're grateful for.
(24:52):
For example, I'm so happy andgrateful that I get to do your
podcast today.
I'm so happy and grateful that Iget to see my patients today.
I'm so happy and grateful that Ihave four wonderful therapy
dogs.
I'm so happy and grateful that Ilive on a mountain with all
kinds of trees and water aroundme.
Those would be some of thethings that I would say that I'm
happy and grateful for.
Okay.
Now you might say, well, thatjust sounds dumb.
I mean, what difference is thatgonna make?
(25:12):
Well, the difference that itmakes is as you remind yourself
of those positive things, itshifts you from a mindset of
paucity, which is there's notenough and it probably isn't
going to work, into a mindset ofplenty and that I'm only limited
by my imagination.
So what you begin to see as youmove through the 28 days is
you'll notice, yeah, you know,this this used to bother me a
(25:33):
lot, but it doesn't bother me somuch anymore.
Or this used to really set meoff and yeah, I didn't even
notice it.
You begin to become moresanguine and calm, and your
prefrontal cortex is now incontrol instead of your
amygdala.
Now, let me say this in thebeginning, if you're feeling
crummy, it can be hard to comeup with things you're grateful
for.
And that's okay, it's normal,but just pick something.
(25:55):
I'm so happy and grateful I havepurple dinosaur socks or just
anything you can think of,right?
And you'll find as the days goalong that the list gets longer
and longer, and you'll feelbetter and better.
And pretty soon, as I said,after about 28, 30 days, you'll
notice wow, my outlook'sdifferent.
It works for depression, itworks for anxiety, it works with
people who are dealing withneurodivergent issues, it works
(26:16):
for everybody, but it only worksif you do it.
Take your vitamin G twice a day.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
Yeah, that's great and sound advice.
Now, stop and think about this.
Someone that's 25, 35, 45, itdoesn't really matter.
They've lived their life, goodor bad.
They can be out there working,feeling good about everything,
and then all of a sudden, boom,something just reminds them of
(26:42):
something bad.
It triggers that switch thatjust takes away everything that
they've been working for thatday to feel positive.
How do you stop that switch frombeing flipped on?
SPEAKER_01 (26:54):
You tell them about it.
Look, this is likely to happento you in the early days of what
you're doing.
You're likely, you know,everything is um, most people
have heard of the learningcurve, right?
You you go forward and then yougo back a little bit.
You go forward and then you goback a little bit.
That's normal.
You're not failing, you're notbad, you're not unsuccessful.
It just means that you're goingthrough your learning process.
If we talk about addictions, forexample, and someone has a
(27:15):
lapse, a lapse is a teachingmoment.
It says, ah, okay, you weren'ttaking care of yourself the way
you need to take care of it.
Let's look at that.
What did we miss?
What do we need to dodifferently?
So it's not about failure, it'sabout, okay, that was a learning
tool.
You can't have success withoutfailure.
So preparing people for that,helping them understand is kind
of like the waves of the ocean,right?
It goes out, it comes in.
It goes out, it comes in.
(27:36):
That's just the nature ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
Yeah, absolutely.
I totally agree.
Now, is there anything that wehaven't touched upon that we
need to?
Well, that's a big question,isn't it?
SPEAKER_01 (27:46):
Uh let's see.
No, actually, I I I think you'veI think you've done a good job.
I want to pivot back to, though,to remind folks that feelings
are not facts.
And here's a way to break thatdown.
Slowing the process down, as Italked about before, is very
helpful.
So get yourself a piece of paperand make three columns.
Column one, you write down whatit is that's bothering you.
(28:07):
The worry thing, right?
Column two is okay, whatevidence do I have that that is
true?
And column three is what would Itell a person who came to me
with this problem or concern?
Most people give excellentadvice, they just don't take it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:23):
Yeah, that's just so true.
Well, this has been great.
Great information, greatconversation.
I really appreciate your takingthe time to join us today.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
Well, thank you so much for having me.
It was fun.
SPEAKER_00 (28:35):
Yes, it was my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(28:58):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing, spread the wordabout why not me.
Our conversations, our inspiringguests, the show.
You are not alone in this world.
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