April 1, 2026 • 33 mins
Lois Brady on Autism Digest, Real Stories, and Raising Expectations in Autism Support
Host Tony Mantor welcomes Lois Brady, publisher of Autism Digest and a speech-language pathologist, to discuss how the magazine blends expert guidance with lived experience using multimedia features like QR-linked videos.
Brady shares how writing Apps for Autism and contributing to Autism, Asperger’s Digest led to her acquiring the publication nearly two years ago. As the mother of an autistic son, she describes early signs, being brushed off by providers, choosing not to label him in school, and the long-term effort that helped him become independent and employed, though social challenges remain.
Brady emphasizes early identification, practical parent strategies, and avoiding the Rosenthal Effect of low expectations, including teaching non-speaking individuals to type.
She describes a breakthrough with a non-speaking child using text-to-speech, addresses public misconceptions, contrasts meltdowns with tantrums, discusses Asperger’s being folded into autism, highlights Temple Grandin’s practical advice, and explores how AI can support early intervention and diagnostic cues.
00:00 Show Intro and Mission
01:21 Meet Lois Brady
02:18 How Autism Digest Began
04:28 Early Career and Inspiration
05:14 A Mom’s Diagnosis Journey
07:39 Early Signs and Adulthood Today
09:16 How Autism Understanding Evolved
10:33 Raising Expectations and Communication
12:16 Typing Breakthrough Story
14:24 Lessons from Autistic Voices
16:06 Media Myths and Public Understanding
17:43 Aspergers vs Autism
18:17 AI for Early Support
21:10 From Cure to Support
22:51 Temple Grandin Wisdom
24:25 Meltdowns vs Tantrums
25:41 Stories and Rising Rates
28:52 Success and High Expectations
29:57 Transitions and Exposure
31:06 Ask Learn Connect
INTRO/OUTRO Music: T. Wild
Mantor Music BMI
The content on Why Not Me: Embracing Autism amd Mental Health Worldwide, including discussions on mental health, autism, and related topics, is provided for informational and entertainment purposes only.
The views and opinions expressed by guests are their own and do not reflect those of the podcast, its hosts, or affiliates.
Why Not Me is not a medical or mental health professional and does not endorse or verify the accuracy, efficacy, safety of any treatments, programs, or advice discussed.
Listeners should consult qualified healthcare professionals, such as licensed therapists, psychologists, or physicians, before making decisions about mental health or autism- related care.
Reliance on this podcast's contents is at the listener's own risk.
Why Not Me is not liable for any outcomes, financial or otherwise, resulting from actions taken based on the information provided.
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SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental
health worldwide.
Hosted by Tony Mentor.
Broadcasting from the heart ofMusic City, USA, Nashville,
Tennessee.
Join us as our guests sharetheir wrong, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, EmbracingAutism and Mental Health
Worldwide.
Before we jump in, if youhaven't already, I invite you to
(01:12):
tap follow.
It only takes a couple ofseconds and it helps this show
reach more families who need tohear these conversations.
Thanks for being here.
Joining us today is Lois Brady.
She's the publisher of AutismDigest, a publication dedicated
to sharing knowledge, resources,and real life experiences from
across the autistic community.
(01:33):
Through her work, she's helpedcreate a platform where
information meets realexperience, helping families
better understand autism whilegiving a voice to those who are
navigating it daily.
Her work continues to help shapeconversation around
understanding, inclusion, andsupport for individuals and
families worldwide.
Today we're going to talk aboutthe evolving conversation around
(01:56):
autism, the importance ofsharing real stories, and how
platforms like Autism Digesthelp bring those voices to the
forefront.
We've got a great conversationcoming, so before we dive into
our episode, we'll be back withan uninterrupted show right
after a word from our sponsors.
Thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, no problem.
Be fun.
(02:17):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
You publish the Autism Digest.
For those that may not be awareof it, can you share a little
bit about the magazine?
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
I do, Tony.
I am the publisher of AutismDigest, which came about to me
in kind of um an odd way.
I'm a language pathologist bytrade.
When technology first came out,specifically like the iPad, when
Steve Jobs stood up on the stageand announced the iPad, almost
instant I realized that thatcould be a great tool for people
(02:45):
with autism.
So I got one and I startedresearching and I wrote the
book, Apps for Autism.
So of course, at that moment,you become the expert.
Now I'm a speech languagepathologist and a technology
expert.
And I started writing for um atthat time it was Autism
Asperger's Digest.
I've written a book for FutureHorizons, which at that time
(03:07):
published also Autism Asperger'sDigest.
And they're in Texas, and theywere uh a family-owned company,
publishing company.
And um, I I really like them.
So when they were getting readyto sell it, they asked me, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'mtoo busy.
But oh my gosh, that's sotempting.
That's that's incrediblytempting.
(03:29):
I'm gonna go ahead and take iton.
And I did, and I love it.
It's a great way to kind of getall the experience that I have
in my 30 years of being a speechlanguage pathologist, plus
knowing all the experts in thefield and all the parents and
just meeting and working withprobably tens of thousands of
families to take that experienceand to give people good
(03:51):
information, not justinformation, because there's a
ton out there, Tony.
You know, you're you're in thebusiness and everybody has
information, but I feel that I'min a particular position where I
can actually pick out what's thegreatest information and
entertain people as well.
I've put in um like QR codeswhere you can go to movies or go
(04:11):
to videos, and I'm trying tomake it more of just absorbing
information, but kind of likesubmersing yourself into the
information, multimodality.
That's kind of where we are now,and I'm really proud of it.
I've had it for almost twoyears.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
I'm right there with you.
You should be proud of it.
Tell us what inspired yourpassion for this?
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Um, originally, Tony, I just don't know.
I used to go to, oh my gosh,this is gonna age me, but it was
called the Stockton StateHospital.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
Which uh then turned into developmental centers and
now have been kind of umdissolved and volunteer.
And I love, love, love workingthere.
From that experience, I Ithought I was gonna go into um
teaching deaf kids and I learnedsign language, and then autism
became a thing.
And it was so um different atthe time.
(05:03):
This is like 30 years ago.
Nobody knew what it was.
And then I had a son who was onthe spectrum, and that's when I
took the deep dive.
I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, timeto figure it out.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Now, you being the mother of an autistic son, how
did that change your perspectiveon what you had planned on
doing?
And then ultimately, how did itchange on what you did do moving
forward?
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
As a mom?
Yeah.
As a career?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Well, let's do both.
But let's start out with the momfirst.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
And the mom, well, you know, it completely changes
your whole perspective.
You know, there's that momentwhere you've had this son, and
it was my first son, and he'syou have all these plans,
everyone does.
And then there's that secondwhere you look into his eyes and
you're like, something's wrong.
Something's not right, I gottafigure it out.
And you start digging andworking and digging.
And then it was over 30 yearsago, Tony.
(05:54):
This is 32 years ago.
And I took him to hispediatrician.
Oh, he's just a boy.
And I'm like, no, he's not justa boy.
There's actually things he'sdoing.
I'm a speech languagepathologist.
I know what just boys are, andwhat behavior that's not quite
in the norm is, too.
He's he's not doing thingstypical boys do.
But I got brushed off, brushedoff.
And I think unfortunately,parents still do get brushed
(06:16):
off.
I mean, I was speaking with amom who had a young little girl,
two years old, just the otherday, Tony, and she was telling
me that one of her providersfrom a state organization, I'm
not gonna say the one, told hernot to even get them checked
until this little girl's threeyears old, don't even worry
about it, she'll grow out of it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
This was just the other day.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah.
And in the middle of California,where you think, you know,
there's a lot of informationhere.
We're very progressive, cuttingedge, and here this is still
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
Yeah, back then.
So of course my aim changed.
I was up and I hear this storyover and over again, all night
long on the computer, figuringout what to do, where to take
them, what my best choices were.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
And and I have to say, unfortunately, as a
therapist working in the schooldistricts, I knew, and this is
gonna be controversial, okay,that that was not my option.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Giving him over to the special ed system would make
him worse and just createconflict.
And, you know, so I didn't.
Yeah, I did not even have himlabeled ever.
You know, it's a parent'schoice.
I hear people say it's good,people say not to.
It was my personal choice not tohave him labeled in to just send
(07:37):
him through school.
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
Sure.
So, what were some of the thingsyou started noticing that didn't
quite seem typical compared tothe other children his age?
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Yeah, yeah.
This lining up his little cars,okay, you know, not able to
stay.
Uh, he was verbal.
So that part was, you know, uh ablessing.
And he was uh one of the thehyperverbal kids who would
fixate.
Yeah.
(08:13):
Where it was going.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
So he was one of one of those guys, and um, just
unusual physical movementsbesides the stimmy, sure, kind
of a robotic gait, unable tomake friends, yeah, a little bit
of headbanging.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Where is he today?
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Today he's grown up, he's in construction, he has a
job, he has a car, he drives.
Nice, you know, he lives on hisown.
Okay, he still has significanttrouble with the friendship
stuff, right?
You know, reading other people,the the whole um dating and
opposite sex thing is still verymysterious to him.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
That's understanding.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
So, yeah, but he's functioning, he's out there.
I'm telling you, Tony, it was alot of work on parents' part.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
And from what I've seen through all my career, if
there is that person, thatparent, that one, whoever it is,
who does not give up and staysthere, the child usually does
very well.
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Building that kind of bond and relationship takes a
lot of work and understanding.
You mentioned earlier that justa few days ago someone told you
don't do it, which is prettysurprising.
When you think back 25, 30 yearsago, how have you seen the
understanding and diagnosis ofautism change compared to what
(09:32):
it is today?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Yeah, um, for the most part, that's rare that I
see and hear that.
That that's a little scary, alittle rare, but now we have
technology.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
Yeah, that's so true.
SPEAKER_02 (09:43):
I'm even creating tools for early intervention.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Early diagnosis.
Like me, I saw something thatwas different in my child,
something that was wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
At the time, there was no autism.
We didn't even learn autism inschool.
We had one half an hour lectureon autism.
You know, we all kind of liketook notes and then it was gone.
Yeah.
So um, when I saw him, I Ireally was like, something's
wrong.
I'm not sure what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
That's interesting you mentioned that.
A speech therapist who inspiredme to start this podcast once
told me that during her fouryears of college, she only had a
small portion of one semesterthat focused on autism.
Now, fast forward 20, 30 years,there are entire courses and
(10:31):
programs dedicated to it.
With that kind of progress, whatinnovations or research do you
think are most important for usto focus on moving forward?
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
You know, and I've written about this several times
in Autism Digest.
I think we have, and I don'tknow if you you know the
Rosenthal effect.
We have that for our kids withautism.
And I think in the schools, it'ssuper pervasive.
I think even parents have it toa certain degree because I'm
trying to coach them and talk tothem, and they, you know,
(11:03):
parents are over helpers.
It's like, you know, I havepeople writing in my magazine
who are non-speakers.
Teach these kids to type, teachthem how that's their mode of
expression.
Many of my um people on theautism spectrum, if they're
gonna communicate, it's gonna betyping, talking, and gestures
and some kind of um what do Icall idiosyncratic language.
(11:26):
But they can learn to type.
Teach them to type.
Oh my goodness, that is what Ifound to be a huge key.
But now I run into the Rosenthaleffect where people are assuming
already that these kids theycan't talk.
Well, how in the heck can theytype?
What's and if they're being, youknow, if they're stimming or
humming or whatever it is theyare, people almost all the time
(11:49):
say they're also developmentallydisabled.
And so until they can talk, whyin the heck would I even teach
them how to type?
So that's my, you know, thatthat would be my key.
Don't put limits on them.
Teach them, you know, real lifethings.
You know, you see these kids,they're they're teenagers,
they're already all over YouTubeand you know, managing these
things.
And I'm like, Did you teach themto type?
(12:09):
Well, no, I didn't think aboutthat.
Well, he's already on there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Yeah, that's such a great point.
Is there a time or a moment inyour life, either with autism
digest or being the mother of anautistic child, where a certain
moment or experience withsomeone on the autism spectrum
really shifted your perspectiveand the way you look at autism?
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, I have that little guy.
He's still here.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
And it was the first time I actually um took this
very what most people would sayprofound young man.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Spent his afternoon screaming, um, crying.
He lived in a group home.
But there was something aboutthis little guy.
I could see that when theteacher put her Starbucks on the
table, the second she turnedaround, he was over there
getting it.
So he's watching.
And if you see those things,you're like, well, there's a
level of intelligence, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
And he was, I don't know, maybe let's just say
eight.
He was still um having troubleusing the bathroom.
So oh my God, he's so low.
And um, I realized he would walkaround with these little
styrofoam letters in his hands.
And I said, you know, let's justtake those letters and spell
your name.
And so I spelled it.
And then I picked up my phoneand I put it in my
(13:27):
text-to-speech.
So we spelled it in the text tospeech, and then I put speak and
he heard it.
And he turned around and helooked and he's like, Oh my
gosh, you know, and I'm like, Ohmy, I think I just, you know,
turned on a light here.
So we were doing all kinds ofthings like spelling hi and my
name and come back the nextsession and he remembered it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
So this little child learned totype, and then he became
self-taught because he realizedthat he could do that, that's
something he can do.
He started typing, but then itgot heartbreaking because as he
got better and better, werealized that, like I said, he
lived in a group home.
He was very bitter about that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
And that's why he was crying most afternoons
because he was very angry withhis mom because she anyway, it
turns into a sadder, darkerstory at that point.
And I'm like, oh my, here's thislittle child, and nobody knew
what was going on.
And now we have we can addressit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
So yeah, that makes sense.
Now, some of the best teachersof autism are those who are
autistic.
Yes.
So tell me, what have youlearned over the years from
autistic people that you mightnot have learned if they were
not autistic?
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
Oh my gosh.
Probably, you know, um, just inmyself, how to navigate the
world and realize that myactions really have an effect on
other people, you know, becausethat's what we try to teach
them, that what you do affectsother people.
And just to learn how to do thatbetter myself.
I don't think I would havelearned that because we're all
(15:00):
kind of a little bit shut off toother people in our own world.
But when you start like reallytrying to get into other
people's world and then bringthem to yours, you just kind of
like start feeling everybodyelse's like energy and empathy
and and become aware of it andreally navigate that much
better.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Over the years, you've had so many stories that
have come to you through theautism digest.
Is there a special story ormoment that has stayed with you
all these years coming fromsomeone this autistic?
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Oh, you know, there's so many and they're all
similar.
Yeah.
There's not one that sticks out,there's just the story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
And it's my story.
It's the mom with the son,usually the son, and how her
life has changed because she'sbeen struggling to try to raise
this son with autism.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Learn how to do it, and that's the story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:57):
I say mom, it's typically mom, right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Autism has received a lot more media attention,
especially in the last 20 or 30years.
But sometimes the message isjust not always accurate.
And that can leave familiesfeeling very confused.
When people hear the wordautism, many still do not
understand what it means.
With all that confusion, it canmake the journey for an autistic
(16:30):
family even more difficult.
What do you think we need to doto create a clear understanding
for the word autism to thepublic?
SPEAKER_02 (16:43):
You know, um, I've been asked that before.
Someone asked me, can youexplain autism to me like like
I'm a toddler?
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:51):
And I'm like, I I can't.
SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
You have to know those folks, and you have to
know each one is different.
And I think like somebody, themain, the general public has a
perception of maybe Sheldon onthe Big Bang theory.
SPEAKER_00 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
Someone like that.
And that that's okay.
And that's why they're saying,leave them alone, let them live
like they want to live.
But my perception is very, verydifferent because right now, if
you walk into a school, you'regonna find a one, maybe two
classrooms full of very young,autistic, very severe kids.
And these kids can't talk.
These kids are running out ofthe classroom into the street,
(17:27):
you know, and and there's thiswhole movement towards empathy,
which I get, and just you know,live with them and learn how to
embrace them.
And it's like, but they'rerunning out in the street, you
know.
We gotta teach them certainthings.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
So, yeah, those two movements don't get along with
each other because people havedifferent perceptions of what
autism is.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
And I think when they took Asperger's away and
moved it in with autism, it wasa huge disservice because
Asperger's is not autism.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:00):
They're very, very different kinds of symptoms and
very different ways that wemanage those symptoms
communication-wise.
SPEAKER_00 (18:08):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
I think that was a huge disservice to clump them
together.
And I'm not even sure why thathappened.
It's probably somethingfinancial.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
One of the things I heard recently really caught me
off guard.
I was talking with a gentlemanwho had just gone through the
process of being evaluated forautism.
The reason he started thatjourney was because his
10-year-old daughter had beendiagnosed.
She actually told him shethought he might be autistic
too.
Here's the fascinating part.
(18:37):
He uses AI, specifically ChatGPT, a lot in his work and had
about two or three years ofconversation stored there.
When he asked it to look atpatterns and those interactions,
it pointed out traits commonlyassociated with autism.
So now, even undiagnosed,because of commonalities with
his daughter, he now believes heis autistic as well.
(19:00):
So this raises an interestingquestion.
How do you see AI and emergingtechnologies helping people
better understand autism?
And how do you see it supportingpeople that are on the spectrum?
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
I think, you know, and and like I say, I'm using
I'm developing one right now,but if we can identify kids as
early as possible and startworking with them as early as
possible, we can really suppressa lot of the characteristics and
a lot of the things that reallymake it difficult as they grow
older.
We can super help parents withstrategies.
(19:38):
I mean, if there's there's justmaybe 10 strategies that are so
easy to implement.
And if we taught the parents, asyour child's growing up, you
know, and he wants something,most parents will say, Oh, is it
this you want?
Is it this?
Is it this?
You know, get them to point, getthem to do a sign, whatever it
is, and give them choices andjust teach those strategies.
(19:58):
We could really avoid a lot ofproblems as they're growing up.
AI can help us do that.
So I have right now on um onautism digest, you could go in
and say, Hey, I'm cooking pastatonight.
I have a um non-speaking, let'ssee, five-year-old.
How can I use this little dinnercooking event to help my
non-speaking five-year-old learngoing to tension?
(20:20):
You can even go that detailedand it'll tell you or give you
all these wonderful strategies.
And I love that about the LLMs.
It doesn't have to be Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
ChatGPT is just one of them.
There's a lot of them out therenow.
Yeah, and it's they're sosupportive.
Now the diagnosis where actuallythere's vocal characteristics.
So we can get a little sample ofa voice, whether it's a word or
not, and run it through oursystem.
And we can tag certaincharacteristics.
We can say that's for diagnosticpurposes.
(20:52):
So if you have any suspicions atall, something's wrong, just go
ahead and start the strategies.
They're super easy.
It doesn't mean you don't loveyour child, it doesn't mean
you're not being a great parent.
These are very easy strategiesthat you can start.
And all you have to do is go toa chat GPT.
What are some strategies forearly intervention for autism?
Boom.
Up there.
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
We've come a long way since the 50s and the 60s
when autism really wasn'tunderstood at all.
When I talk with families today,I still hear stories where
someone shares their diagnosisand people around them think
it's something that can be curedor fixed.
Yeah, I know.
The truth is it's not aboutfixing anything.
(21:31):
It's just a different way thebrain processes and receives
information.
You can explain that to people,but sometimes it fully doesn't
register with them.
No.
How do we shift the conversationon how to fix autism to helping
people understand it so thatindividuals on the spectrum have
the tools and support they needto navigate a world that wasn't
(21:52):
originally designed for them?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Yes, yes, give them their best life possible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
That's what we want to do.
It is a brain.
Difference.
There is no uh fixing it.
And I think a lot of the earlymessaging was it is a condition
that we're looking for the cure.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
You know, and I think the early messaging is is
still there.
And, you know, maybe there arethings we can do.
I don't know yet.
You know, I have my personalbiases about what can make it
worse, trigger it.
I know it triggered my own sons.
And, you know, it's verycontroversial.
And if you say anything, eitheryou're on this side or that
(22:29):
side.
And it's like I'm not on twosides.
This is what triggered my son,and I know it as a fact.
But I've heard other parents sayit, you know, the waters are
muddy, they're really muddy, andyou know, the true voices come
out like like Temple Grandon.
Look at Temple Grandon.
She's still Temple Brandon inher what 80s, according to her.
There's no cure, okay?
She's learned to live within herown self and she's happy.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah, and you bring up Temple Grandon.
I had her on my podcast twice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Isn't she great?
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Yes, she is.
She had a consistent thing shewould say, and that was give me
a pilot's checklist.
I can check it off and I'll getit done.
That's the best way for me tounderstand what you want to get
done.
The interesting thing that Ifound about Temple Grandin is
that some people seem to viewher in two very different ways.
Some see her as having one ofthe most important voices and
(23:19):
platforms in the autismcommunity.
Yeah.
While others feel herperspective reflects an earlier
era.
Yet many of the things she talksabout are common sense,
practical, and rooted inreal-world experience.
How do we help people appreciatethat age or experience does not
necessarily make someone'sinsight outdated?
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
You know, she's she's a scientist and she loves
technology.
And I when I first got into theautism world, she was my go-to.
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Yeah, understandably.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Even in my speech therapy sessions, she published,
I think it was 28 teaching tips.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
I still use today.
They're fantastic.
Right.
Give them to my parents and Isay use these.
It doesn't change.
Autism had not changed.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Autism is autism.
So whether you're in your 80s oryou're 10 years old, you're
still gonna have the same kindsof symptoms and the same things
are gonna help you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:19):
In many ways, autism hasn't changed.
The way individuals experiencethe world is the same.
What's evolving is how societyresponds to it.
But there's still a lot ofmisunderstanding.
I recently spoke with parentssupporting their child through a
meltdown, trying to give themthe space they needed to
regulate.
People around them assumed itwas poor parenting when in
(24:42):
reality it was exactly what thechild needed.
Yeah, I know.
How do we shift people'sawareness so situations like
that are met with empathy andunderstanding rather than
criticism?
There is a difference between ameltdown and a temper tantrum.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yes, yes, the huge difference.
And Tony, I I don't know.
It's I look at it in if I canhit one parent at a time, and
even even if I tell them andexplain to them the differences,
it takes so long for the parentto understand that themselves.
(25:20):
Like, oh my gosh, it's so hard.
So I think, you know, thingslike autism digest, things like
what you're doing, justcontinuing pushing the
information out there.
You look at things like we allknow it's it's bad to eat at
McDonald's, and oh my god, don'tfeed your kids that stuff.
But how many hobby meals do theyserve a day?
People don't want to knowthings, they just want to live
(25:40):
their lives.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
When I first started exploring autism podcasts, many
of them were incrediblyknowledgeable, but they were
also very clinical.
There were acronyms andterminology that someone new to
autism might not understand.
I kept thinking about parentswho had just heard their
children's diagnosis.
If that's the first thing theyhear, it could feel so
overwhelming.
(26:02):
That's why I wanted this podcastto be different, to focus on the
human stories, because whenpeople hear real experiences,
they tend to begin to understandautism in a way that clinical
language alone can't provide.
I think the stories are veryimportant for people to hear
because it's very relatable.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Yes.
Yes.
More stories.
And, you know, I know that we'rehaving a debate on the explosion
of autism.
What's really causing it?
Is it identification?
Are they really more kids withautism?
Bottom line is yes, there are.
There's a lot more.
I mean, I again I've been here30, 35 years, and where I used
to have only one non-speaking,now I got a whole caseload.
(26:40):
It's like, okay, so they weren'thiding anywhere.
These are non-speaking, verysevere little kids.
So, what helped me?
I actually picked up a couplebooks written by non-speaking um
people.
There's Ido Kadar, Pena, DanielPena, Carly Fleischmann.
So pick up those books.
They tell great stories abouttheir lives.
(27:02):
What does it feel like to try totalk?
Why do you slam your handssometime?
You know, why are you going likethis?
There's reasons.
Carly told this great story.
She went to school, and theteacher said she just kept
flicking her head and waswondering, did she have a
headache?
Did you check with the dentist?
And essentially, when Carly wasable to type and learn to
communicate, she said no, therewas a cute boy in class and she
(27:24):
was flicking her hair.
It was like, those are greatstories from the people
themselves.
So pick up those books.
They're they're inspirational.
SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
They are.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
When I go around and talk about technology, those are
the first books I bring up.
Look at these are non-speakingindividuals who actually sat
there and typed these thingsout.
And again, I understand there'sa controversy there too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
I hate to say this.
I think they can create acontroversy on anything they
want to create.
SPEAKER_02 (27:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
What I think it comes down to is common sense.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
One of the beautiful things about what you do with
Autism Digest and what I try todo with this podcast is
storytelling.
Some of the stories people haveshared with me are ones I'll
never forget.
And I think that's a huge reasonAutism Digest has been so
successful, because you'retelling real stories that people
can connect with.
When people don't understandsomething, stories help them
(28:21):
begin to see in a way factsalone sometimes can't.
The reality is unless someone isliving that experience every
day, they'll probably neverfully understand autism the way
an autistic person or theirfamily does.
I know I don't have that livedexperience.
What I have is a basicunderstanding.
But through conversations likethis and through people sharing
(28:44):
their stories, we can at leasthelp others gain insight and
understanding even if theyhaven't walked that path
themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (28:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And I've started really puttingsome success stories in there.
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_02 (28:57):
I got entrepreneurs.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
It's not a lifetime of being, you know, locked in a
room.
No, these people are doingthings, even if they're not what
I want to say, like the the umAsperger's guys.
There's some people who havetrouble communicating.
Yeah.
They're going to college,they're doing all kinds of
things.
You know, again, I come back tothe Rosenthal syndrome.
Don't put limitations on them.
(29:21):
And that's what Temple says too.
Her mom pushed her to go tocollege.
Her mom pushed her to go to heraunt's farm, and the best thing
she could have done.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
You know, don't protect them, don't hover over
them and just keep pushing themforward.
SPEAKER_01 (29:35):
Yes, give them the same opportunity that you would
give to a neurotypical child.
Right.
There will be certainlimitations that both of them
will have.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Like the old saying, you've seen one autistic person,
you've seen one autistic person.
Everyone's different and theyall have different things that
they can do throughout theirlife.
SPEAKER_02 (29:55):
Right.
Right.
And here's another, I'm I'mgoing to throw this out here
because I think this is superimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:01):
You know, they have the transitions are huge for
people with autism.
And um, if you have a youngster,they don't like to go anywhere.
They like to sit in front of theTV.
And if you leave them there,that's where they're going to
be.
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:13):
And I remember taking my son and going to the
park at least twice a day.
And the second he thought I wasgoing to go to the park, he'd
start crying.
And then there was a tantrum.
And at that point, I almost justsaid, forget it.
But I picked him up and I tookhim, crying, screaming, sat him
into the car.
We're going to the park.
You're going to sit there withthe other kids.
I don't care what you do.
You're just going to sit there.
And then brought him home.
(30:34):
And, you know, for the first fewmonths, that's what we did.
And then and then it startedgetting less and less and less.
And then he liked the park.
So it's like, you'll gotta likeget out there and expose them.
And it's hard because you getthe looks.
You get the oh my God, why isthis mom bringing her screaming
kids?
So you just have to beconfident.
Just get out there.
And if a mom wants to know, youexplain it to her.
He's sensory.
(30:55):
These transitions are hard, buthe's still got to learn how to
come out, enjoy the outdoors.
And you know, I'm gonna get himoff of his videos for a while
because back then it was likethe videos.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Yeah.
As we wrap up, what messagewould you most like families and
listeners to remember aboutautism and the work you're doing
with autism digest, especiallyfrom your perspective as an
autistic mom?
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, there's a whole bunchof things.
You know, just ask the person,walk up to them and ask them
what's it like.
I've noticed that most folkswith autism don't mind telling
you.
Most families don't mind tellingyou.
If you really want to know, justgo ask.
You know, I I've read so manylists, Tony, where people say,
never say this to an autisticperson or never say this to an
(31:40):
autism mom.
And you're what you're doing isyou're making people afraid to
talk to you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
Oh my God, okay.
I can't, I forget what I can'tsay.
I'm just not gonna go sayanything.
Right.
We need to stop putting thoselists out there.
Just stop that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
And um, because it's taking the opposite effect.
Just go talk to them, um,volunteer somewhere, get in
there and figure it out.
And you know, if someone'sacting a little bit out of the
norm, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:05):
May or may not be autism, whatever it is, it's
okay.
Right.
Let them go.
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Learn with them.
You know, we're all I have ourlittle quirks and things.
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
Yeah, we all do.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
And then just search out more knowledge.
More, more is better.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
Yeah.
Now, how do they find you?
SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
Um, well, I'm on the website, um, autismdigest.com.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
Yeah, all the information's there.
They can contact me.
Anyone's interested in um any ofthe research, yeah, yeah,
contact me and see what's goingon.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
Happy to share.
This has been a fantasticconversation and incredibly
informative.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to join us and share
your perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Yes, thank you, Tony.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(33:05):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing.
Spread the word about why notme.
Our conversations, our inspiringguest, the Joe.
You are not alone in this world.
Welcome to Why Not Me, embracing autism and mental
health worldwide.
Hosted by Tony Mentor.
Broadcasting from the heart ofMusic City, USA, Nashville,
Tennessee.
Join us as our guests sharetheir wrong, powerful stories.
Some will spark laughter, otherswill move you to tears.
(00:30):
These real life journeysinspire, connect, and remind you
that you're never alone.
We're igniting a global movementto empower everyone to make a
lasting difference by fosteringdeep awareness, unwavering
acceptance, and profoundunderstanding of autism and
(00:52):
mental health.
Tune in, be inspired, and joinus in transforming the world one
story at a time.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me, EmbracingAutism and Mental Health
Worldwide.
Before we jump in, if youhaven't already, I invite you to
(01:12):
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It only takes a couple ofseconds and it helps this show
reach more families who need tohear these conversations.
Thanks for being here.
Joining us today is Lois Brady.
She's the publisher of AutismDigest, a publication dedicated
to sharing knowledge, resources,and real life experiences from
across the autistic community.
(01:33):
Through her work, she's helpedcreate a platform where
information meets realexperience, helping families
better understand autism whilegiving a voice to those who are
navigating it daily.
Her work continues to help shapeconversation around
understanding, inclusion, andsupport for individuals and
families worldwide.
Today we're going to talk aboutthe evolving conversation around
(01:56):
autism, the importance ofsharing real stories, and how
platforms like Autism Digesthelp bring those voices to the
forefront.
We've got a great conversationcoming, so before we dive into
our episode, we'll be back withan uninterrupted show right
after a word from our sponsors.
Thanks for joining us today.
Yeah, no problem.
Be fun.
(02:17):
Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.
You publish the Autism Digest.
For those that may not be awareof it, can you share a little
bit about the magazine?
SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
I do, Tony.
I am the publisher of AutismDigest, which came about to me
in kind of um an odd way.
I'm a language pathologist bytrade.
When technology first came out,specifically like the iPad, when
Steve Jobs stood up on the stageand announced the iPad, almost
instant I realized that thatcould be a great tool for people
(02:45):
with autism.
So I got one and I startedresearching and I wrote the
book, Apps for Autism.
So of course, at that moment,you become the expert.
Now I'm a speech languagepathologist and a technology
expert.
And I started writing for um atthat time it was Autism
Asperger's Digest.
I've written a book for FutureHorizons, which at that time
(03:07):
published also Autism Asperger'sDigest.
And they're in Texas, and theywere uh a family-owned company,
publishing company.
And um, I I really like them.
So when they were getting readyto sell it, they asked me, and
I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'mtoo busy.
But oh my gosh, that's sotempting.
That's that's incrediblytempting.
(03:29):
I'm gonna go ahead and take iton.
And I did, and I love it.
It's a great way to kind of getall the experience that I have
in my 30 years of being a speechlanguage pathologist, plus
knowing all the experts in thefield and all the parents and
just meeting and working withprobably tens of thousands of
families to take that experienceand to give people good
(03:51):
information, not justinformation, because there's a
ton out there, Tony.
You know, you're you're in thebusiness and everybody has
information, but I feel that I'min a particular position where I
can actually pick out what's thegreatest information and
entertain people as well.
I've put in um like QR codeswhere you can go to movies or go
(04:11):
to videos, and I'm trying tomake it more of just absorbing
information, but kind of likesubmersing yourself into the
information, multimodality.
That's kind of where we are now,and I'm really proud of it.
I've had it for almost twoyears.
SPEAKER_01 (04:26):
I'm right there with you.
You should be proud of it.
Tell us what inspired yourpassion for this?
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Um, originally, Tony, I just don't know.
I used to go to, oh my gosh,this is gonna age me, but it was
called the Stockton StateHospital.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
Which uh then turned into developmental centers and
now have been kind of umdissolved and volunteer.
And I love, love, love workingthere.
From that experience, I Ithought I was gonna go into um
teaching deaf kids and I learnedsign language, and then autism
became a thing.
And it was so um different atthe time.
(05:03):
This is like 30 years ago.
Nobody knew what it was.
And then I had a son who was onthe spectrum, and that's when I
took the deep dive.
I'm like, oh my gosh, okay, timeto figure it out.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
Now, you being the mother of an autistic son, how
did that change your perspectiveon what you had planned on
doing?
And then ultimately, how did itchange on what you did do moving
forward?
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
As a mom?
Yeah.
As a career?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
Well, let's do both.
But let's start out with the momfirst.
SPEAKER_02 (05:33):
And the mom, well, you know, it completely changes
your whole perspective.
You know, there's that momentwhere you've had this son, and
it was my first son, and he'syou have all these plans,
everyone does.
And then there's that secondwhere you look into his eyes and
you're like, something's wrong.
Something's not right, I gottafigure it out.
And you start digging andworking and digging.
And then it was over 30 yearsago, Tony.
(05:54):
This is 32 years ago.
And I took him to hispediatrician.
Oh, he's just a boy.
And I'm like, no, he's not justa boy.
There's actually things he'sdoing.
I'm a speech languagepathologist.
I know what just boys are, andwhat behavior that's not quite
in the norm is, too.
He's he's not doing thingstypical boys do.
But I got brushed off, brushedoff.
And I think unfortunately,parents still do get brushed
(06:16):
off.
I mean, I was speaking with amom who had a young little girl,
two years old, just the otherday, Tony, and she was telling
me that one of her providersfrom a state organization, I'm
not gonna say the one, told hernot to even get them checked
until this little girl's threeyears old, don't even worry
about it, she'll grow out of it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:36):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (06:37):
This was just the other day.
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (06:40):
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Yeah, yeah.
And in the middle of California,where you think, you know,
there's a lot of informationhere.
We're very progressive, cuttingedge, and here this is still
happening.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
Yeah, back then.
So of course my aim changed.
I was up and I hear this storyover and over again, all night
long on the computer, figuringout what to do, where to take
them, what my best choices were.
SPEAKER_00 (07:05):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (07:05):
And and I have to say, unfortunately, as a
therapist working in the schooldistricts, I knew, and this is
gonna be controversial, okay,that that was not my option.
SPEAKER_00 (07:16):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (07:17):
Giving him over to the special ed system would make
him worse and just createconflict.
And, you know, so I didn't.
Yeah, I did not even have himlabeled ever.
You know, it's a parent'schoice.
I hear people say it's good,people say not to.
It was my personal choice not tohave him labeled in to just send
(07:37):
him through school.
SPEAKER_01 (07:38):
Sure.
So, what were some of the thingsyou started noticing that didn't
quite seem typical compared tothe other children his age?
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
Yeah, yeah.
This lining up his little cars,okay, you know, not able to
stay.
Uh, he was verbal.
So that part was, you know, uh ablessing.
And he was uh one of the thehyperverbal kids who would
fixate.
Yeah.
(08:13):
Where it was going.
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (08:14):
So he was one of one of those guys, and um, just
unusual physical movementsbesides the stimmy, sure, kind
of a robotic gait, unable tomake friends, yeah, a little bit
of headbanging.
SPEAKER_01 (08:28):
Where is he today?
SPEAKER_02 (08:30):
Today he's grown up, he's in construction, he has a
job, he has a car, he drives.
Nice, you know, he lives on hisown.
Okay, he still has significanttrouble with the friendship
stuff, right?
You know, reading other people,the the whole um dating and
opposite sex thing is still verymysterious to him.
SPEAKER_01 (08:51):
That's understanding.
SPEAKER_02 (08:52):
So, yeah, but he's functioning, he's out there.
I'm telling you, Tony, it was alot of work on parents' part.
SPEAKER_00 (08:58):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
And from what I've seen through all my career, if
there is that person, thatparent, that one, whoever it is,
who does not give up and staysthere, the child usually does
very well.
SPEAKER_01 (09:11):
Building that kind of bond and relationship takes a
lot of work and understanding.
You mentioned earlier that justa few days ago someone told you
don't do it, which is prettysurprising.
When you think back 25, 30 yearsago, how have you seen the
understanding and diagnosis ofautism change compared to what
(09:32):
it is today?
SPEAKER_02 (09:34):
Yeah, um, for the most part, that's rare that I
see and hear that.
That that's a little scary, alittle rare, but now we have
technology.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
Yeah, that's so true.
SPEAKER_02 (09:43):
I'm even creating tools for early intervention.
SPEAKER_01 (09:46):
That's great.
SPEAKER_02 (09:47):
Early diagnosis.
Like me, I saw something thatwas different in my child,
something that was wrong.
SPEAKER_00 (09:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:54):
At the time, there was no autism.
We didn't even learn autism inschool.
We had one half an hour lectureon autism.
You know, we all kind of liketook notes and then it was gone.
Yeah.
So um, when I saw him, I Ireally was like, something's
wrong.
I'm not sure what it was.
SPEAKER_01 (10:10):
That's interesting you mentioned that.
A speech therapist who inspiredme to start this podcast once
told me that during her fouryears of college, she only had a
small portion of one semesterthat focused on autism.
Now, fast forward 20, 30 years,there are entire courses and
(10:31):
programs dedicated to it.
With that kind of progress, whatinnovations or research do you
think are most important for usto focus on moving forward?
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
You know, and I've written about this several times
in Autism Digest.
I think we have, and I don'tknow if you you know the
Rosenthal effect.
We have that for our kids withautism.
And I think in the schools, it'ssuper pervasive.
I think even parents have it toa certain degree because I'm
trying to coach them and talk tothem, and they, you know,
(11:03):
parents are over helpers.
It's like, you know, I havepeople writing in my magazine
who are non-speakers.
Teach these kids to type, teachthem how that's their mode of
expression.
Many of my um people on theautism spectrum, if they're
gonna communicate, it's gonna betyping, talking, and gestures
and some kind of um what do Icall idiosyncratic language.
(11:26):
But they can learn to type.
Teach them to type.
Oh my goodness, that is what Ifound to be a huge key.
But now I run into the Rosenthaleffect where people are assuming
already that these kids theycan't talk.
Well, how in the heck can theytype?
What's and if they're being, youknow, if they're stimming or
humming or whatever it is theyare, people almost all the time
(11:49):
say they're also developmentallydisabled.
And so until they can talk, whyin the heck would I even teach
them how to type?
So that's my, you know, thatthat would be my key.
Don't put limits on them.
Teach them, you know, real lifethings.
You know, you see these kids,they're they're teenagers,
they're already all over YouTubeand you know, managing these
things.
And I'm like, Did you teach themto type?
(12:09):
Well, no, I didn't think aboutthat.
Well, he's already on there.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Yeah, that's such a great point.
Is there a time or a moment inyour life, either with autism
digest or being the mother of anautistic child, where a certain
moment or experience withsomeone on the autism spectrum
really shifted your perspectiveand the way you look at autism?
SPEAKER_02 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, I have that little guy.
He's still here.
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:39):
And it was the first time I actually um took this
very what most people would sayprofound young man.
SPEAKER_00 (12:47):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
Spent his afternoon screaming, um, crying.
He lived in a group home.
But there was something aboutthis little guy.
I could see that when theteacher put her Starbucks on the
table, the second she turnedaround, he was over there
getting it.
So he's watching.
And if you see those things,you're like, well, there's a
level of intelligence, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (13:07):
And he was, I don't know, maybe let's just say
eight.
He was still um having troubleusing the bathroom.
So oh my God, he's so low.
And um, I realized he would walkaround with these little
styrofoam letters in his hands.
And I said, you know, let's justtake those letters and spell
your name.
And so I spelled it.
And then I picked up my phoneand I put it in my
(13:27):
text-to-speech.
So we spelled it in the text tospeech, and then I put speak and
he heard it.
And he turned around and helooked and he's like, Oh my
gosh, you know, and I'm like, Ohmy, I think I just, you know,
turned on a light here.
So we were doing all kinds ofthings like spelling hi and my
name and come back the nextsession and he remembered it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:46):
Nice.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
And I'm like, oh my gosh.
So this little child learned totype, and then he became
self-taught because he realizedthat he could do that, that's
something he can do.
He started typing, but then itgot heartbreaking because as he
got better and better, werealized that, like I said, he
lived in a group home.
He was very bitter about that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (14:06):
And that's why he was crying most afternoons
because he was very angry withhis mom because she anyway, it
turns into a sadder, darkerstory at that point.
And I'm like, oh my, here's thislittle child, and nobody knew
what was going on.
And now we have we can addressit.
SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
So yeah, that makes sense.
Now, some of the best teachersof autism are those who are
autistic.
Yes.
So tell me, what have youlearned over the years from
autistic people that you mightnot have learned if they were
not autistic?
SPEAKER_02 (14:39):
Oh my gosh.
Probably, you know, um, just inmyself, how to navigate the
world and realize that myactions really have an effect on
other people, you know, becausethat's what we try to teach
them, that what you do affectsother people.
And just to learn how to do thatbetter myself.
I don't think I would havelearned that because we're all
(15:00):
kind of a little bit shut off toother people in our own world.
But when you start like reallytrying to get into other
people's world and then bringthem to yours, you just kind of
like start feeling everybodyelse's like energy and empathy
and and become aware of it andreally navigate that much
better.
SPEAKER_01 (15:19):
Over the years, you've had so many stories that
have come to you through theautism digest.
Is there a special story ormoment that has stayed with you
all these years coming fromsomeone this autistic?
SPEAKER_02 (15:31):
Oh, you know, there's so many and they're all
similar.
Yeah.
There's not one that sticks out,there's just the story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:40):
And it's my story.
It's the mom with the son,usually the son, and how her
life has changed because she'sbeen struggling to try to raise
this son with autism.
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
Sure.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
Learn how to do it, and that's the story.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (15:57):
I say mom, it's typically mom, right.
SPEAKER_01 (16:06):
Autism has received a lot more media attention,
especially in the last 20 or 30years.
But sometimes the message isjust not always accurate.
And that can leave familiesfeeling very confused.
When people hear the wordautism, many still do not
understand what it means.
With all that confusion, it canmake the journey for an autistic
(16:30):
family even more difficult.
What do you think we need to doto create a clear understanding
for the word autism to thepublic?
SPEAKER_02 (16:43):
You know, um, I've been asked that before.
Someone asked me, can youexplain autism to me like like
I'm a toddler?
SPEAKER_00 (16:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (16:51):
And I'm like, I I can't.
SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:54):
You have to know those folks, and you have to
know each one is different.
And I think like somebody, themain, the general public has a
perception of maybe Sheldon onthe Big Bang theory.
SPEAKER_00 (17:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:05):
Someone like that.
And that that's okay.
And that's why they're saying,leave them alone, let them live
like they want to live.
But my perception is very, verydifferent because right now, if
you walk into a school, you'regonna find a one, maybe two
classrooms full of very young,autistic, very severe kids.
And these kids can't talk.
These kids are running out ofthe classroom into the street,
(17:27):
you know, and and there's thiswhole movement towards empathy,
which I get, and just you know,live with them and learn how to
embrace them.
And it's like, but they'rerunning out in the street, you
know.
We gotta teach them certainthings.
SPEAKER_00 (17:41):
Right.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:43):
So, yeah, those two movements don't get along with
each other because people havedifferent perceptions of what
autism is.
SPEAKER_00 (17:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:50):
And I think when they took Asperger's away and
moved it in with autism, it wasa huge disservice because
Asperger's is not autism.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:00):
They're very, very different kinds of symptoms and
very different ways that wemanage those symptoms
communication-wise.
SPEAKER_00 (18:08):
Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02 (18:09):
I think that was a huge disservice to clump them
together.
And I'm not even sure why thathappened.
It's probably somethingfinancial.
SPEAKER_01 (18:17):
One of the things I heard recently really caught me
off guard.
I was talking with a gentlemanwho had just gone through the
process of being evaluated forautism.
The reason he started thatjourney was because his
10-year-old daughter had beendiagnosed.
She actually told him shethought he might be autistic
too.
Here's the fascinating part.
(18:37):
He uses AI, specifically ChatGPT, a lot in his work and had
about two or three years ofconversation stored there.
When he asked it to look atpatterns and those interactions,
it pointed out traits commonlyassociated with autism.
So now, even undiagnosed,because of commonalities with
his daughter, he now believes heis autistic as well.
(19:00):
So this raises an interestingquestion.
How do you see AI and emergingtechnologies helping people
better understand autism?
And how do you see it supportingpeople that are on the spectrum?
SPEAKER_02 (19:14):
I think, you know, and and like I say, I'm using
I'm developing one right now,but if we can identify kids as
early as possible and startworking with them as early as
possible, we can really suppressa lot of the characteristics and
a lot of the things that reallymake it difficult as they grow
older.
We can super help parents withstrategies.
(19:38):
I mean, if there's there's justmaybe 10 strategies that are so
easy to implement.
And if we taught the parents, asyour child's growing up, you
know, and he wants something,most parents will say, Oh, is it
this you want?
Is it this?
Is it this?
You know, get them to point, getthem to do a sign, whatever it
is, and give them choices andjust teach those strategies.
(19:58):
We could really avoid a lot ofproblems as they're growing up.
AI can help us do that.
So I have right now on um onautism digest, you could go in
and say, Hey, I'm cooking pastatonight.
I have a um non-speaking, let'ssee, five-year-old.
How can I use this little dinnercooking event to help my
non-speaking five-year-old learngoing to tension?
(20:20):
You can even go that detailedand it'll tell you or give you
all these wonderful strategies.
And I love that about the LLMs.
It doesn't have to be Chat GPT.
SPEAKER_00 (20:29):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (20:30):
ChatGPT is just one of them.
There's a lot of them out therenow.
Yeah, and it's they're sosupportive.
Now the diagnosis where actuallythere's vocal characteristics.
So we can get a little sample ofa voice, whether it's a word or
not, and run it through oursystem.
And we can tag certaincharacteristics.
We can say that's for diagnosticpurposes.
(20:52):
So if you have any suspicions atall, something's wrong, just go
ahead and start the strategies.
They're super easy.
It doesn't mean you don't loveyour child, it doesn't mean
you're not being a great parent.
These are very easy strategiesthat you can start.
And all you have to do is go toa chat GPT.
What are some strategies forearly intervention for autism?
Boom.
Up there.
SPEAKER_01 (21:10):
We've come a long way since the 50s and the 60s
when autism really wasn'tunderstood at all.
When I talk with families today,I still hear stories where
someone shares their diagnosisand people around them think
it's something that can be curedor fixed.
Yeah, I know.
The truth is it's not aboutfixing anything.
(21:31):
It's just a different way thebrain processes and receives
information.
You can explain that to people,but sometimes it fully doesn't
register with them.
No.
How do we shift the conversationon how to fix autism to helping
people understand it so thatindividuals on the spectrum have
the tools and support they needto navigate a world that wasn't
(21:52):
originally designed for them?
SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Yes, yes, give them their best life possible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:57):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (21:58):
That's what we want to do.
It is a brain.
Difference.
There is no uh fixing it.
And I think a lot of the earlymessaging was it is a condition
that we're looking for the cure.
SPEAKER_00 (22:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (22:09):
You know, and I think the early messaging is is
still there.
And, you know, maybe there arethings we can do.
I don't know yet.
You know, I have my personalbiases about what can make it
worse, trigger it.
I know it triggered my own sons.
And, you know, it's verycontroversial.
And if you say anything, eitheryou're on this side or that
(22:29):
side.
And it's like I'm not on twosides.
This is what triggered my son,and I know it as a fact.
But I've heard other parents sayit, you know, the waters are
muddy, they're really muddy, andyou know, the true voices come
out like like Temple Grandon.
Look at Temple Grandon.
She's still Temple Brandon inher what 80s, according to her.
There's no cure, okay?
She's learned to live within herown self and she's happy.
SPEAKER_01 (22:51):
Yeah, and you bring up Temple Grandon.
I had her on my podcast twice.
SPEAKER_00 (22:55):
Isn't she great?
SPEAKER_01 (22:56):
Yes, she is.
She had a consistent thing shewould say, and that was give me
a pilot's checklist.
I can check it off and I'll getit done.
That's the best way for me tounderstand what you want to get
done.
The interesting thing that Ifound about Temple Grandin is
that some people seem to viewher in two very different ways.
Some see her as having one ofthe most important voices and
(23:19):
platforms in the autismcommunity.
Yeah.
While others feel herperspective reflects an earlier
era.
Yet many of the things she talksabout are common sense,
practical, and rooted inreal-world experience.
How do we help people appreciatethat age or experience does not
necessarily make someone'sinsight outdated?
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
You know, she's she's a scientist and she loves
technology.
And I when I first got into theautism world, she was my go-to.
SPEAKER_01 (23:49):
Yeah, understandably.
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Even in my speech therapy sessions, she published,
I think it was 28 teaching tips.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:57):
I still use today.
They're fantastic.
Right.
Give them to my parents and Isay use these.
It doesn't change.
Autism had not changed.
SPEAKER_00 (24:08):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (24:08):
Autism is autism.
So whether you're in your 80s oryou're 10 years old, you're
still gonna have the same kindsof symptoms and the same things
are gonna help you.
SPEAKER_01 (24:19):
In many ways, autism hasn't changed.
The way individuals experiencethe world is the same.
What's evolving is how societyresponds to it.
But there's still a lot ofmisunderstanding.
I recently spoke with parentssupporting their child through a
meltdown, trying to give themthe space they needed to
regulate.
People around them assumed itwas poor parenting when in
(24:42):
reality it was exactly what thechild needed.
Yeah, I know.
How do we shift people'sawareness so situations like
that are met with empathy andunderstanding rather than
criticism?
There is a difference between ameltdown and a temper tantrum.
SPEAKER_02 (24:59):
Yes, yes, the huge difference.
And Tony, I I don't know.
It's I look at it in if I canhit one parent at a time, and
even even if I tell them andexplain to them the differences,
it takes so long for the parentto understand that themselves.
(25:20):
Like, oh my gosh, it's so hard.
So I think, you know, thingslike autism digest, things like
what you're doing, justcontinuing pushing the
information out there.
You look at things like we allknow it's it's bad to eat at
McDonald's, and oh my god, don'tfeed your kids that stuff.
But how many hobby meals do theyserve a day?
People don't want to knowthings, they just want to live
(25:40):
their lives.
SPEAKER_01 (25:41):
When I first started exploring autism podcasts, many
of them were incrediblyknowledgeable, but they were
also very clinical.
There were acronyms andterminology that someone new to
autism might not understand.
I kept thinking about parentswho had just heard their
children's diagnosis.
If that's the first thing theyhear, it could feel so
overwhelming.
(26:02):
That's why I wanted this podcastto be different, to focus on the
human stories, because whenpeople hear real experiences,
they tend to begin to understandautism in a way that clinical
language alone can't provide.
I think the stories are veryimportant for people to hear
because it's very relatable.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Yes.
Yes.
More stories.
And, you know, I know that we'rehaving a debate on the explosion
of autism.
What's really causing it?
Is it identification?
Are they really more kids withautism?
Bottom line is yes, there are.
There's a lot more.
I mean, I again I've been here30, 35 years, and where I used
to have only one non-speaking,now I got a whole caseload.
(26:40):
It's like, okay, so they weren'thiding anywhere.
These are non-speaking, verysevere little kids.
So, what helped me?
I actually picked up a couplebooks written by non-speaking um
people.
There's Ido Kadar, Pena, DanielPena, Carly Fleischmann.
So pick up those books.
They tell great stories abouttheir lives.
(27:02):
What does it feel like to try totalk?
Why do you slam your handssometime?
You know, why are you going likethis?
There's reasons.
Carly told this great story.
She went to school, and theteacher said she just kept
flicking her head and waswondering, did she have a
headache?
Did you check with the dentist?
And essentially, when Carly wasable to type and learn to
communicate, she said no, therewas a cute boy in class and she
(27:24):
was flicking her hair.
It was like, those are greatstories from the people
themselves.
So pick up those books.
They're they're inspirational.
SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
They are.
SPEAKER_02 (27:36):
When I go around and talk about technology, those are
the first books I bring up.
Look at these are non-speakingindividuals who actually sat
there and typed these thingsout.
And again, I understand there'sa controversy there too.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
I hate to say this.
I think they can create acontroversy on anything they
want to create.
SPEAKER_02 (27:54):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
What I think it comes down to is common sense.
SPEAKER_02 (27:59):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
One of the beautiful things about what you do with
Autism Digest and what I try todo with this podcast is
storytelling.
Some of the stories people haveshared with me are ones I'll
never forget.
And I think that's a huge reasonAutism Digest has been so
successful, because you'retelling real stories that people
can connect with.
When people don't understandsomething, stories help them
(28:21):
begin to see in a way factsalone sometimes can't.
The reality is unless someone isliving that experience every
day, they'll probably neverfully understand autism the way
an autistic person or theirfamily does.
I know I don't have that livedexperience.
What I have is a basicunderstanding.
But through conversations likethis and through people sharing
(28:44):
their stories, we can at leasthelp others gain insight and
understanding even if theyhaven't walked that path
themselves.
SPEAKER_02 (28:51):
Yeah, exactly.
And I've started really puttingsome success stories in there.
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_02 (28:57):
I got entrepreneurs.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:59):
It's not a lifetime of being, you know, locked in a
room.
No, these people are doingthings, even if they're not what
I want to say, like the the umAsperger's guys.
There's some people who havetrouble communicating.
Yeah.
They're going to college,they're doing all kinds of
things.
You know, again, I come back tothe Rosenthal syndrome.
Don't put limitations on them.
(29:21):
And that's what Temple says too.
Her mom pushed her to go tocollege.
Her mom pushed her to go to heraunt's farm, and the best thing
she could have done.
SPEAKER_00 (29:29):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:29):
You know, don't protect them, don't hover over
them and just keep pushing themforward.
SPEAKER_01 (29:35):
Yes, give them the same opportunity that you would
give to a neurotypical child.
Right.
There will be certainlimitations that both of them
will have.
SPEAKER_02 (29:45):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (29:45):
Like the old saying, you've seen one autistic person,
you've seen one autistic person.
Everyone's different and theyall have different things that
they can do throughout theirlife.
SPEAKER_02 (29:55):
Right.
Right.
And here's another, I'm I'mgoing to throw this out here
because I think this is superimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (30:01):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (30:01):
You know, they have the transitions are huge for
people with autism.
And um, if you have a youngster,they don't like to go anywhere.
They like to sit in front of theTV.
And if you leave them there,that's where they're going to
be.
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (30:13):
And I remember taking my son and going to the
park at least twice a day.
And the second he thought I wasgoing to go to the park, he'd
start crying.
And then there was a tantrum.
And at that point, I almost justsaid, forget it.
But I picked him up and I tookhim, crying, screaming, sat him
into the car.
We're going to the park.
You're going to sit there withthe other kids.
I don't care what you do.
You're just going to sit there.
And then brought him home.
(30:34):
And, you know, for the first fewmonths, that's what we did.
And then and then it startedgetting less and less and less.
And then he liked the park.
So it's like, you'll gotta likeget out there and expose them.
And it's hard because you getthe looks.
You get the oh my God, why isthis mom bringing her screaming
kids?
So you just have to beconfident.
Just get out there.
And if a mom wants to know, youexplain it to her.
He's sensory.
(30:55):
These transitions are hard, buthe's still got to learn how to
come out, enjoy the outdoors.
And you know, I'm gonna get himoff of his videos for a while
because back then it was likethe videos.
SPEAKER_01 (31:05):
Yeah.
As we wrap up, what messagewould you most like families and
listeners to remember aboutautism and the work you're doing
with autism digest, especiallyfrom your perspective as an
autistic mom?
SPEAKER_02 (31:18):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, there's a whole bunchof things.
You know, just ask the person,walk up to them and ask them
what's it like.
I've noticed that most folkswith autism don't mind telling
you.
Most families don't mind tellingyou.
If you really want to know, justgo ask.
You know, I I've read so manylists, Tony, where people say,
never say this to an autisticperson or never say this to an
(31:40):
autism mom.
And you're what you're doing isyou're making people afraid to
talk to you.
SPEAKER_00 (31:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
Oh my God, okay.
I can't, I forget what I can'tsay.
I'm just not gonna go sayanything.
Right.
We need to stop putting thoselists out there.
Just stop that.
SPEAKER_00 (31:52):
Yeah.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (31:54):
And um, because it's taking the opposite effect.
Just go talk to them, um,volunteer somewhere, get in
there and figure it out.
And you know, if someone'sacting a little bit out of the
norm, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:05):
May or may not be autism, whatever it is, it's
okay.
Right.
Let them go.
SPEAKER_00 (32:08):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (32:09):
Learn with them.
You know, we're all I have ourlittle quirks and things.
SPEAKER_01 (32:13):
Yeah, we all do.
SPEAKER_02 (32:14):
And then just search out more knowledge.
More, more is better.
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
Yeah.
Now, how do they find you?
SPEAKER_02 (32:19):
Um, well, I'm on the website, um, autismdigest.com.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (32:23):
Yeah, all the information's there.
They can contact me.
Anyone's interested in um any ofthe research, yeah, yeah,
contact me and see what's goingon.
SPEAKER_01 (32:31):
Happy to share.
This has been a fantasticconversation and incredibly
informative.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to join us and share
your perspectives.
SPEAKER_02 (32:41):
Yes, thank you, Tony.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (32:43):
It's been my pleasure.
Thanks again.
Thanks for taking time out ofyour busy schedule to listen to
our show today.
We hope you enjoyed it as muchas we enjoyed bringing it to
you.
If you know someone who has astory to share, tell them to
(33:05):
contact us at why notme.world.
One last thing.
Spread the word about why notme.
Our conversations, our inspiringguest, the Joe.
You are not alone in this world.
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