June 10, 2024 • 40 mins
Tara Thurber is joined by CEO & Founder of Rubelli Digital, Joseph Rubelli. Together, they discuss Joseph's professional background, his favorite marketing campaigns and his Top5 Reasons why Businesses Fail Relating to marketing ROI. Tune in today for amazing ideas that will shakeup your marketing strategies!
Joseph Rubelli Bio: Joseph Rubelli has spent his career building brands, helping businesses grow, and telling stories that resonate with audiences.
After years of working in sales, marketing, and business across Europe and EMEA in the beauty & fashion industry for global brands like Lancer, Sephora and LVMH Group, he combined his experience in corporate with a passion for storytelling and communication to found Rubelli Digital in 2020. He brings his expertise in digital marketing and PR to help business owners and service providers transform their businesses into strong digital brands.
Click To Conversion Free Masterclass IG: @Josephrubelli @rubellidigitalmarketing
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Tara Thurber (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefineTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
(00:20):
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us. Send it in and
you might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
co founder and director oftalent partnerships here at
DefineTalent And joining metoday is Joseph Rubelli, founder
and digital strategy expert atRubelli Digital. Rubelli Digital
(00:42):
is a result driven boutiqueagency that offers full service
creative social mediacapabilities. Hey, Joseph, how
are you today?
Joseph Rubelli (00:50):
Very well, how are you? Thank you for having
me.
Tara Thurber (00:53):
No problem excited to have you as our guest today.
Why don't we just jump rightinto this Joseph and if you
don't mind sharing a little bitabout yourself your professional
background and give us a littlebit about what Rubelli Digital
is.
Joseph Rubelli (01:07):
Absolutely. So my name is Joseph. I am the
founder and CEO of RubelliDigital, I started my marketing
career now 20 years ago, and Istarted in Italy. I worked in
Milan, I worked in London, and Imoved from Italy. I was born in
Italy and moved from Italy toLondon when I was 20. I started
(01:28):
working in sales in the beautyindustry, I was working in the
store and I was part of aprogram for executives that
allow you to do many differentroles within the company. So I
grew up in the role and then Imoved to London. And I started
working initially as a salescoordinator. And then I was
working on SAS coding with withthis company which was a startup
(01:50):
skincare at the time. And then Igrew into a marketing role. I
was a marketing executive, thenI became a social media
executive, then social mediamanager and influencer marketing
manager and then I became amanager. And then I one of my
last corporate job. I was asocial media director during the
pandemic.
Tara Thurber (02:08):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (02:08):
So I did many different jobs and all within
the beauty and fashion industry.
But in the last few years, I'dbe working more with real estate
service based businesses and Istarted Rubelli Digital. During
the pandemic, it was a timewhere everybody was looking for
solutions driven marketing andextremely strong ROI because, of
course, we had a lot ofchallenges during COVID. And I
(02:30):
put together strategies, and,you know, a series of
implementation that reallyworked. And I relocated to the
US a couple of years ago, and Istarted to work with my agency
in the US. And now we are a teamof four. And it has been a great
overall journey. Not an easyjourney, but a very exciting
(02:52):
journey.
Tara Thurber (02:55):
Well, just your professional path in general
seems like a pretty awesomejourney, to say the least. And
then to come to the US startingyour own boutique agency and
growing. It must be so exciting,too. I know. You know, during
COVID, it was a tough time. Itwas definitely a tough time. But
pushing through and getting towhere you're at today. I mean,
(03:17):
kudos to you, andcongratulations on that growth.
Joseph Rubelli (03:21):
Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it. And yes,
you have been a learning curve.
I think when you build yourbrand, the line and I did it in
a way that was a bit different.
I was coming from a corporatebackground, so everything was in
place where it needed to be. AndI will just have to show up.
When you work in and you runyour own business, you have to
show up every day, even on thedays that you really don't feel
(03:42):
like it. So I started to buildmy social media presence online
after I quit my corporate job.
And I wanted to build acommunity of other business
owners and startups and I builda community at 45,000 people on
social media. And then I starteda podcast where I will interview
different leaders and they allowme to build authority within the
brand. And all of those stepswere little but they allow me to
(04:05):
gain the credibility andauthority that I have today in
the industry. And I feel this issomething that is very important
to remember is never a one sizefits all. It is never really an
overnight success. It's a stepof different action that you
take day by day to really leadyou to where you want to be.
Tara Thurber (04:29):
I love that a lot.
I love exactly how you put allthat. So I want to dive in a
little bit in regards tomarketing ROI. Would you be able
to briefly explain whatmarketing ROI means and why it
is crucial for businesses?
Joseph Rubelli (04:48):
Absolutely. So marketing ROI is really the
return of investment that youhave when you are investing
money within your marketing. Andthe reason why as an agency we
focus a lot on conversionmarketing lead generation is
because when I was working incorporate and I was in sales,
before I went to marketing, myfirst question would be like,
(05:08):
okay, great, but how is thisbringing any revenue? Whatever
strategy they might have, it wasalways about the revenue, and
why the revenue is not the onlything, it is one of the most
important things. And I alwayssay, it does not really matter
what type of marketing you do,if it doesn't bring you any
return, which could be traffic,it could be lead generation, it
(05:30):
could be sales, you really arenot maximizing your opportunity
with marketing. So ROI is reallymaking sure that everything you
share, whether there is anemail, whether it is a post on
Instagram, or a video on Tiktokis really moving the needle of
your customer journey fromdiscovery to purchase. And one
of the key parts of my servicesthat I really highlight the
(05:53):
importance of creating anecosystem. Funnily enough, I had
a meeting today, where I wastalking to these very big
corporation, they had a fullmarketing team, that they have a
person that does TikTok, theyhave a person that has an
Instagram, they have a personthat does Threads, you know, all
the socials are covered, butnone of the social is linked.
(06:15):
And when you go through, the waythey manage them is very much
content focused rather thanreturn of investment focused. So
why the two things are verydifferent, they should be
complimentary.
Tara Thurber (06:28):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (06:28):
So I set it to work with them to really make
sure that we connect all thedots. And it is one of the most
difficult part for businessesbecause often what happens you
have different type of contentthat gets created. And the way
you create content is aninterpretation that everybody
(06:48):
has differently.
Tara Thurber (06:49):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (06:49):
And often when I talk to different, they talk to
me about content marketing, likethey are content creators or
influencers, which is adifferent type of job compared
to having a business that youmarket it online. And I think
that's one of the biggestmisconception there.
Tara Thurber (07:05):
It's so interesting when it comes down
to it, because you can have allthe channels and be putting
stuff out there. But you'reright, it all needs to kind of
come together to show arelationship to build that
environment for that oneparticular business. And if
you're going in, if you're it'snot all inter connected, and
(07:27):
it's going in all differentdirections, then what is the
point I'm putting it even outthere? Right?
Joseph Rubelli (07:32):
Correct. I always bring this example. When
you are thinking about a socialmedia strategy for a business
and never invested in socialmedia, the first thing they will
tell you is that they arelooking to increase the brand
awareness, right? So really,what they're telling you is they
are looking to get moreattention towards the brand. And
(07:55):
why this is the first steptowards the next part, it is
really important to do that,what happens often they will get
the attention, they will get thelikes, they will get the
followers, they will get theviews, they will get the
engagement, but then they forgetabout the retention, okay, how
many of these people that I amcaptivating online, I am
(08:16):
actually converting? So I alwayssay the strategy has to be a
very good hybrid betweenattention and retention.
It has to be agreat balance between the two.
Tara Thurber (08:22):
Right.
And often what happens you havetwo different types of scenarios
that I work with, I have peoplewith very big following 500 to a
million to two million, they hada great presence online, but
their revenue is not coming fromsocial media. And they cannot
really work on the conversion.
It's just not converting as muchas they should be. Because what
(08:45):
happens, they build a verystrong community, they have the
engagement. But what happens istheir page became a commodity
for their followers, they gothere, they consume the content,
they get the information, butthey don't move to the next
stage of the customer journeybecause they get everything they
need on social.
(09:06):
So that's it.
That's done.
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (09:07):
Exactly you become a commodity there.
So that's thethat's the biggest challenge.
And the second type of client Iwork with is someone that is
clueless when it comes to socialmedia. So they need to start
from zero. And they are probablydoing their own marketing and
they are thinking okay, wherethe heck do I start?
What's the nextstep for me? There's so many
Tara Thurber (09:24):
Right (laughs).
platforms so many reel do I needto dance? Do I need to lip sync?
What do I need to do? And I'mlike, No, you don't have to do
any of that. We need to work onsomething that works with you
need to work with the platform,not for the platform.
Okay, I like thata lot. I like that a lot. Do
you? Do you get a lot ofcompanies that come to you that
(09:49):
already know who their idealclient is? Or is it do you get
clients that come to you thatare just like I have this
service or I have this productand how do I start making
revenue?
Joseph Rubelli (10:04):
I had both.
Tara Thurber (10:05):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (10:05):
Through the years and I have to say,
usually, the people that don'tknow, the ideal client that they
are looking to speak to are thesame people that think they have
no competitors. And when itcomes to the people there, they
know who they're speaking to,really, my job is to come there
(10:25):
and help them to fine tune themessaging, because you might
have an idea who yourdemographic is or who your
client avatar might look like.
When you posted the content, thecontent is not, it doesn't have
the right messages. So forexample, I'm targeting
millennials, with a servicebased business. And I am using a
copywriting that is just notreally speaking to them in a way
(10:47):
that is understood andperceived.
Tara Thurber (10:51):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (10:52):
In a way, there's way too corporate. So
people feel like, Oh, my God,that's not the right stage for
this. And they might be but themessaging the communication
channels are not optimized inline to make them feel like they
are the right stage of businessfor them to invest. So they move
on.
Tara Thurber (11:08):
Very interesting how that is. And then, kind of
going into my next questionhere. According to recent
research, statistics show thatinfluence marketing is expected
to be worth $24 billion by theend of the year. What are your
thoughts on this tactic? Is Goahead, answer that one. First.
(11:29):
We'll start there.
Joseph Rubelli (11:30):
Influencer marketing is a very powerful
tool, however, the ways to doinfluencer marketing are plenty.
And I feel even though this hasbeen an avenue of marketing that
has been happening for a longtime, people still don't really
optimize it to the way it shouldbe. So, when it comes to
influencer marketing, you wantto make sure that the creators
(11:51):
you are working with the rightpeople for your business.
Now, somethingthat a lot of people do not
Tara Thurber (11:56):
For your business.
understand what you feel as amarketer is that their main job
of a content creator orinfluencer is that they need to
sell content. That's what theyoffer, they sell content and
they sell a space in their pageto brands in light to advertise
a product that the brand wantsto sell to their demographic
(12:17):
because that's who they want tospeak to. So that's a direct
channel to consumer compared toa magazine a few years ago,
where you will have an advertthere, but you will not know how
many people actually look atthat or how many people actually
convert. So influence marketingis brilliant. However, the way
influence marketing is changingis through a different approach.
(12:40):
We went from the very salesyapproach, I love this product,
this is what I'm obsessed with,you should buy it to more about
It can be trickyit sounds (laughs)! It's almost
the storytelling of the brand.
It's using influencer marketingas a way to tell the story of
the company from a differentangle. And you know, you have
company like, Tiffany's orcompany like they've been in the
business for a long time. Butthey haven't really invested in
(13:02):
influencer marketing before,they are starting to do it now
in a way that is like Okay,great. Let me show you what we
are about through this person.
So I think what's happening iswe going from the classical
message copy and paste thatevery content creator requested
from last week to something thatrequires a bit of a bit more
(13:25):
strategy and I work with manydifferent content creators,
content creators are great but,you know, you need to find the
good ones and people that reallyunderstand the brand's strategy
overall and they put some efforton what they create and you need
to give a good creative freedomto the person like to make them
feel that the content theycreated is aligned what they
(13:48):
usually do but is also alignedwith the company which is why
there needs to be a system in placewhat happens if you choose the
wrong influencer and you kind ofput all this money with
businesses that have a smallbudget or are trying things what
(14:11):
happens then if that doesn'twork and you're sinking your
money into this how dobusinesses find their way out?
Joseph Rubelli (14:23):
I will share a simple example of this because I
work with content creators andinfluencers with small budget
and so that way based on thecampaign you're you're looking
to work with you want to divideyour strategy into different
sizes of influences. So if youwant to gain awareness, you want
(14:43):
to go with the bigger numbers.
So the bigger the contentcreator the more reach there
will have and so therefore, ifyour main goal is to get
awareness for the brand or toget attention, those are the
people you need to work with.
You want them to create somecontent that is predominantly
video that you can use orrepurpose on an ad later on.
Tara Thurber (15:03):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (15:04):
And then if you instead are looking for
attention, and you say, okay,great, we have the attention,
but we need to start theconversion, you can start to
work with content creators thatare a little bit smaller, we're
talking, you know, 50, to 100k,those usually are the one that
have the community that is themost invested. They're the one
(15:24):
that are bringing theconversion, they're bringing the
lead. So you can track that indifferent ways. I've done this
in the over the years, manydifferent ways, I did this
through a link where the personwill use the link, and sometimes
they get permission. They're notagain, it was a marketing isn't
affiliate marketing. So youshould pay as a company, the
(15:45):
content of the campaign that theperson is with, because usually
what happens is I mean, I as anagency, we work with brands, and
I have to partner in my agencythat I work with, and we create
content for them what we do, wecreate campaigns together.
Tara Thurber (15:59):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (15:59):
And then the campaigns is involving a set
amount of placements, which arethe set amount of posts. And
that's what you pay for. And youcan also add to it a link where
the person can share this linkthrough their community. So you
can track the conversion of thataccount. And that's usually the
best way to work with contentcreators, again, 50 to 100k
(16:21):
200k, those are the ones thatwill convert the most the one
over a million are great forattention, but not brilliant for
retention.
Tara Thurber (16:28):
Okay, that's understandable. So then, in
looking at well establishedcompanies that have existed for
decades, that are reluctant tochange marketing tactics, or try
new channels, what is youradvice to a young marketer
dealing with generation gaps andtrying to, I don't want to say
(16:51):
recreate the wheel, but expand?
Joseph Rubelli (16:55):
Yeah, so this is a great question. Because this
has been a significant part ofmy job for a long time. Because
when I started working on socialmedia, social media was really
new. So I remember going to myboss and say, I think we should
make an effort to invest timeand energy into this, because
that's what is going to generaterevenue with. And I remember
(17:17):
preparing a whole case study andand whole business case to show
them how to do it. What happens,and the advice I will give to
any young marketer that islooking to work with bigger
companies, is to focus less onthe metrics, or social media,
which I call the vanity metrics,the lives the followers, the
(17:37):
engagement, you want to reallytalk about the real marketing
behind it, how do you take thatperson from discovery to
purchase in the customerjourney? So focus on how is this
post is going to generate morerevenue for the business? Or if
it's not revenue? How is itgoing to generate more leads? So
(17:59):
if you create an Instagramstrategy? How is this post gonna
increase the traffic to thewebsite? So instead of talking
about awareness, you can say,okay, great, you can you know,
I've been in rooms before withyounger social media managers
talking about percentages ofawareness for the company
awareness is not quantifiablebecause awareness doesn't really
(18:21):
pay the bills, what really youcan switch that is, okay, great,
this strategy will increase,there is a forecast that he will
increase traffic by 50% on thewebsite. So that's how you can
quantify and really understandwhat language the person who is
in front of you speaks, if theperson is all about numbers, you
need to make the case aboutthat.
Tara Thurber (18:42):
The numbers talk (laughs).
Joseph Rubelli (18:43):
Exactly. At the end of the day, numbers speak.
And even in marketing, postingon Instagram is not marketing,
you need a strategy thatinvolves posting on it, you
know, I always bring thisexample in my community, there's
a difference between contentmarketing and marketing content.
Content marketing is the contentthat is moving the needle from
discovery to purchase on socialmedia. Marketing content, is
(19:07):
making sure that the contentthat you create and is
distributed in a way that isactually bringing the return of
investment when a company wantsand that's where the expertise
comes in. It's all aboutcreating the video, it's about
making sure that what you'redoing is effectively moving that
needle that we mentioned before.
Tara Thurber (19:24):
It's very interesting how it kind of is in
two different ways. But beingable to create campaigns and
build or have that ROI. It'sreally important for businesses
to understand the two differentaspects that we that you just
(19:45):
brought up there where it'smarketing content or content
marketing, right? So what andyou know, let me ask you a
question like this too. Forsmaller businesses and startups
what happens if maybe they'vegot a strategy, but they don't
have a budget to put intocontent marketing? Is there any
(20:06):
advice you would give some ofthe smaller businesses that
really have like zero to nobudget?
Joseph Rubelli (20:12):
Absolutely. Like if you're doing your marketing,
the best way to market yourbusiness is to really make sure
you're showing up on socialmedia. And instead of talking
about what you sell,predominantly talk about why you
started and how are you takingthe person from point A to point
(20:32):
B, making sure you are the faceof what you're selling the
product because realistically,what happens, especially in
platforms, such as Instagram, orFacebook, they are very
emotional platform, people builda connection with the person in
that screen. And that personbecomes a medium between what
they sell in and who they sellit to. And so what happens there
(20:54):
is, if you're able to documentyour journey as an entrepreneur,
and show what you are working onin taking the audience, along
with you, people will feelinvested. And that's how you're
going to warm them up toultimately purchase. Don't feel
ashamed to sell a product. Ithink that's another problem. I
(21:14):
feel like a lot of times, smallentrepreneurs to do their own
marketing. They don't want tosound salesy, so they never talk
about the product. And they getthe engagement because they
create a lot of educationalcontent, and it's great, but
then it doesn't sell. So it's alot of time that you put into
something that is not bringingyou anything back, other than
great vanity metrics, if youwill. So you want to make sure
(21:35):
that the way you invest thattime was social, it's super
valuable. I actually didrecently a masterclass where I
teach my community how to spendless time on social media more
time in their business. And it'sall about understanding this
pattern, and what type ofcontent they should be putting
out there and when. So it's awhole 60 minutes social media
(21:57):
training that I do and iscompletely free. So it's like it
gives a lot of perspective. AndI talk about this all the time,
I started to post significantlyless this year, because I
started to focus more onbusiness development, and why I
post less the amount of leadsand sales that comes from my
(22:18):
social media is exactly the sameas it was last year, because the
strategy's right. So it's reallyabout replaces recipe strategy,
I always mentioned that it'svery important.
Tara Thurber (22:26):
I like that a lot.
Because there is a lot of stress
Joseph Rubelli (22:27):
Yeah, exactly.
And it's really about opening aunder it. And to come up with a
strategy and maybe you launchthat strategy, and maybe it
fails. But talking about thatconversation. That's the whole
point of social is I'm gonnajourney talking about that. And
from what I gather, too, when webring you an example, if you
allow me to.
think about social media, it'stied to emotions, it's that
(22:51):
feeling behind it, that you wantyour audience to feel. So
instead of it just being printin a newspaper or a magazine,
it's really showing up andbringing that emotion to it in
order to create engagement.
Tara Thurber (23:08):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (23:16):
Of a client of mine works in accounting and
bookkeeping, very differentindustry to market on social
media. So we work together on astrategy. And my client is a
millennial, but she's veryintroverted. Very, very good at
what she does veryknowledgeable, but she's not one
of those people that would jumpon camera and talk to the
audience. Because her style.
(23:37):
When we worktogether on the strategy, we
Tara Thurber (23:37):
Right.
work on a strategy where sheposts three times a week, and
she shows up predominantly onLinkedIn, and Instagram. And the
first question I asked you asOkay, great, what do you feel
more comfortable in terms ofcontent to create? Because
everybody's different. Somepeople like to jump on camera
and do a video, some people liketo write a blog, some people
(23:58):
like to post a picture and put acaption on it, you need to
understand what makes you feelcomfortable, and what you can do
a lot of it without gettingburnout. So she said I love
writing. And I said, brilliant.
So we're going to start with awriting. So I said, Why don't we
do a blog per week, and we picka topic, and this is the topic
that we're going to talk abouton the page. For the whole week.
(24:19):
This is the topic we're gonnause. So I said, the way we're
going to distribute thisinformation will be different.
We're going to use the blog andthen we're going to create an
infographic where we're going totalk about the key points of
that blog. And we're going toopen up conversation on the
comments by using a veryengaging caption, and then you
can jump on stories. And she is,again one on one of those people
(24:41):
that will never speak on story.
So what we set out to do is Iwant you to film yourself while
you're working while you'retyping on the phone. When you
type it on the phone. Whenyou're tapping on the laptop,
you put your phone on the sideand you start recording on a
time lapse. Then you say thatand you take the information of
the blog that you paraphrasethem and you post them on
stories, then you ask theaudience what they think. And in
(25:04):
reality, what happens is we havea 20% creation, which is the
blog and 80% distribution,because the content is the same,
this allow her to be consistent.
And this allows her to bepresent in a way that feels
right to her. It is not workingfor the platform, when you are
working with a platform. That'sa very simple example of how we
develop a strategy or Rubellitogether to make sure that the
(25:25):
person feel comfortable, butalso that the marketing works.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah, no, and I, Ilove it. I love how you it's
kind of it's specialized, it'sindividualized and specialize
per the type of client, theperson behind it, which I think
is really important, because youneed to make sure that you're
(25:45):
tied to the product or thebusiness itself that you're
trying to put out there. So thatyou show up authentically,
Exactly and the way we sharecontent, usually. And I always
say this the way when I workwith strategies, and when I
create strategy with clients,the way I create the content, is
(26:06):
to target each part of thecustomer journey, the customer
journey for every one of us,depending on the industry, but
pretty much is always the same.
It's like page one, I don'treally know I have a problem. I
don't know, I need a solution.
Joseph Rubelli (26:18):
Right?
Tara Thurber (26:18):
So it's what I call problem awareness content,
stage number two, I know I havea problem, I don't really know
what this solution is. So that'sconsideration content, that's
where you have your educationaltutorial content. Stage number
three is like great. I know Ihave a problem. I know what the
solution is, I don't really knowwhere to buy it from. So that's
(26:38):
why you said to look at thereviews, and you start to look
at the different type of peoplethat work with that person to
understand whether you can beone of those person too is stage
number four. Okay, great. Now Iknow what I want, I'm ready to
invest. Can I trust this person?
So that's where you go throughthe whole journey again, you're
like, Okay, great. So I feellike this is the right person
for me. And that's where thecontent has to this is what I
(26:59):
mean, by taking the person fromdiscovery to purchase.
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (27:04):
You're selling through your content at
different stages. And whenpeople find you, they might be
one of those four stages, butyou've given them some pay for
each one of them in a way thatmakes sense to them at that
time. And that's where, youknow, strategy comes in, because
that's what I help clients to doto make sure that each piece of
content has a purpose.
Tara Thurber (27:24):
That's fantastic, Joseph, it's very eye opening.
For me, when we think about howbusinesses can fail relating to
all of this because they're notlistening, they're not paying
attention. So it's veryinteresting and it sounds to
that the types of businesses arethe range. So to be able, for
(27:47):
you to be able to share all thisinformation is is very valuable,
because a lot of businessesengage socially in so many
different ways. And by openingup the ideas or the strategies
behind it, I feel it can hiteverybody in a different way in
(28:08):
order to help them. I want tokind of jump in with a fun
question here really quickly. Asa marketer, I'm sure you've
probably analyzed hundreds ofadvertising campaigns. What is
one campaign that stood out toyou perhaps one of those jingles
that you can't quite get out ofyour head and I don't know if I
(28:31):
want to share it, because thenit's going to be stuck in my
head. But tell me something fun.
Joseph Rubelli (28:37):
I wouldn't sit so in terms of you wouldn't be a
jingle but it was I'm going tobring to the example number one
is the Dunkin Donuts and BenAffleck collaboration for the
Superbowl. I love the way thatwas done. I thought that was
creative, different. And weshould they've shown a pot of
Ben Affleck that you wouldn'tnecessarily see.
Tara Thurber (28:59):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (29:00):
And there was a different personality that can
now and he was quiteinteresting. And there was also
that celebrity status with J. LoI thought that was really fun
and creative. I did a wholebrand analysis on my page about
that campaign. And I broke itdown on why did they decide to
use Ben Affleck and the idea wasthat they were trying to appeal
to make Dunkin Donuts more of afun brand. And also moving away
(29:24):
from donuts because now theyrebranded to Dunkin.
Tara Thurber (29:28):
Just Dunkin'.
Joseph Rubelli (29:29):
Yeah. And the second one, it's in fashion. I'm
a huge fashion fan. I lovefashion. And I think the way
Mary Kate and Ashley Olsenmarketed the Row recently for
their fashion week in Paris wasphenomenal because they did a
whole strategy campaign whereyou will go as an influencer to
(29:52):
their fashion to the fashionshow, but you were not allowed
to take pictures or shareanything on social media. It was
completely blackout, you are notallowed to have any phones.
Tara Thurber (30:02):
Wow.
Joseph Rubelli (30:02):
And what this did was triggered a lot of PR.
Tara Thurber (30:06):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (30:07):
PR generate sales.
Tara Thurber (30:08):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (30:09):
Also keeping the exclusivity of the brand because
they are looking to be anexclusive brand, someone that is
listening who doesn't know whatthe role is the role is the
brand created the Mary Kate fromMary Kate and Ashley Olsen. The
concept that they have a fewyears ago was to create a
perfect t shirt. And from there,they created a whole brand where
the unique selling point is thematerial you have 100% cotten
(30:30):
100% cashmere, very particularhigh end material, super high
quality, and also captivating astyle that is very significant
to them, which is something thatwent from very gaudy to what
nowadays define quiet luxery.
And what happens with thiscampaign, and the reason why I
thought it was genius is becausein a world where everything you
(30:50):
do doesn't really count, unlessyou share it. Is sort of trigger
the question to every personthat obviously make a lot of
money out of creating content,if you're not sharing it on
social media, were you eventhere? That's the whole question
that they wanted to createaround the and I thought that
(31:12):
was a thought provoking anglethat made a lot of people talk
created a lot of buzz andmarketed the brand through the
old PR strategy, because theyhad a lot of press through that.
Because there was a way it wentcompletely the opposite
direction of any brands. We haveTarte cosmetics, which is a
beauty brands that spentmillions of dollars to send
people to the Middle East tohave a great time and create a
(31:34):
lot of content in Dubai. Andthen we have the Row, which is
sending 10 influencer 20 to afashion week and then not
allowed their phone. So what isleft for them to share? So I
thought that was veryinteresting. And I like things
that are contrary is somethingthat is completely different.
And I thought you know, if youlook at the way the Road works,
(31:54):
and the brand, the way they doit, they ultimately are
competing with Hermes, they wantto be the new Hermes. So they
want to be associated to that.
Like they have a bag now thatbecame the seat bag. And now the
sisters are really upset aboutit. Because the bread, the the
the bag is getting a lot ofpress, but he's losing the
(32:16):
acquisition of the brand. Sothey might discontinue that
back.
Tara Thurber (32:20):
Wow.
Joseph Rubelli (32:21):
That's how they are. You know, it's really about
that. And I thought that's avery refreshing angle to me. And
I thought that campaign reallycaught my attention because he
was just interesting.
Tara Thurber (32:32):
But all of those are very interesting. And it's
almost taking a step back andbeing able to get creative, but
making an impact in a differentway. It just it's to me, it's
very interesting. I want to godo more research on it now.
Joseph Rubelli (32:48):
Yeah, you go check it out. There was a big
conversation around this. Andone last one I want to share if
you allow me to
Tara Thurber (32:54):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (32:55):
A bit different is when we look at the world of
collaboration between brands,right? We seen a collaboration
that I thought was reallyinteresting was Adidas and Gucci
together completely different.
Why do they do it? Well, Adidasis ultimately looking to
captivate a newer demographic,someone who has more power than
then someone who is a Gen Zbelonging to a specific socio
(33:19):
economic demographic. So whatthey did was, well, why don't we
partner with Gucci, why don't wedo something that is very
different, very unique, and weare putting the price up really
high, we increasing a price. Sothis will open the door to then
create a new collection in thefuture there will be a higher
(33:40):
price. So Gucci was at the sametime looking to have more of a
athletic wear, type of customerbecause they spend a lot of time
and money to create a lot ofathletic wear and a lot of you
know sportswear and stuff sowhat they set out to do they
combined together so Gucci couldhave that athletic wear consumer
and Adidas could raise theirprice in a way that felt
(34:03):
organic, even though he wasn'tbecause it was related to a
campaign.
Tara Thurber (34:07):
Wow. The sky's the limit. I feel like there's so
many different ideas. Coming indifferently, is really something
that allows businesses to stepoutside of that, that comfort
zone, where it's the monotony ofthe day to day and opening up
the doors to a differentaudience. And that is where
(34:34):
growth happens. It's not dumpingmore money into their current
strategy, but thinking outsideof the box, and opening up to
more to a different audience inorder to create growth.
Joseph Rubelli (34:46):
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And it's really
about the way you communicate.
And if someone wants to see Italk about communication through
visual branding, for example,quite a lot of my page talks
about how hollows can make ahuge impact in your messaging
and stuff like that on my page,you're more than welcome. If
you're listening to check thatout, I do a series called visual
branding, where I take eachcolor of the palette and I
(35:08):
explain how does that affectyour sale and your sales page?
So it's really interesting.
Tara Thurber (35:14):
We'll definitely have to share that when we post
this podcast.
Joseph Rubelli (35:17):
Yes!
Tara Thurber (35:19):
So Joseph, please, please, please share your Top5
Reasons Businesses Fail Relatingto Marketing ROI.
Joseph Rubelli (35:27):
Right. Number one is creating content. And,
you know, briefing their socialmedia team to create content
like content creators, they arefocusing on content, they're not
focusing on business strategy,they are separating the two. The
second reason why they fail isthey don't stick to strategy for
(35:48):
long enough to make it work. Ialways say when you're testing
something new, you need to giveat least six months to that to
have enough data for you to thenoptimize it and repeat what
works anything before that isjust a trial it's not a
strategy. Number three isdefinitely been behind. When it
comes to the way the platformwork. If you are looking to do a
(36:12):
digital marketing strategy, youneed to be willing to get
updates and make sure that youare on top of the game when it
comes to what's going on withinthat platform.
Tara Thurber (36:20):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (36:21):
And another one is spreading yourself too thin
and be present everywhere inevery single platform and just
repurpose what you have everyway in the in the hope that
something is going to stick.
It's better to be in lessplatform, and with a strategy
that is connecting all of themtogether rather than going
everywhere and just doing copyand pasting. And then another
one, I will say it's usually theway people look at marketing is
(36:52):
very much is like mono channelinstead of being omni channel,
right? It's really that lack ofecosystem that we mentioned
before, making sure that all thepoints are connected, to get up
from your email, to yourpodcasts, from your podcasts, to
your social everything should beconnected.
Unknown (37:14):
I love all of these only because it gives people and
businesses. It's shedding lighton different things that
companies are doing and maybenot succeeding in. And so being
able to take the reasons thatbusinesses can fail for that.
(37:36):
Taking that and shifting it tothen find success. And I think
with everything that you'veshared today, Joseph, there's
definitely some businesses outthere that will find success in
a different way. And I just Ireally value everything that
you've brought to the tabletoday because I think it's
important for companies tounderstand what can work and
(37:58):
what can't work, but it's reallya matter of just showing up and
making that strategy and havingthat and pushing forward.
Joseph Rubelli (38:07):
Yeah, absolutely. I can bring if you
allow me an example.
Tara Thurber (38:11):
Please.
Joseph Rubelli (38:12):
Of a good ecosystem that I think we all
fell for less once Apple is thebest at doing this. Because you
will go and either you startwith an iMac or with an iPhone,
then they get you into theiCloud so all your data is in
the iCloud. And so what happensthe next person that you do will
be an Apple product because youwant to be linked to the iCloud.
Tara Thurber (38:34):
Yup.
Joseph Rubelli (38:34):
iCloud is the magnet to everything in the
ecosystem because all yourinformation is there. You don't
want to be bothered to changeeverything. So you go with the
iMac, then you go on iPhone. Andthen well I want some
headphones, I might as well getthe airport's because they're
connected, my phone is justeasy. And then Okay, great. I
can't see very well, I needsomething bigger. But I already
(38:54):
have a Mac and I don't want toget anything else. Maybe again,
iPad, there we go. They got youinto the ecosystem.
Tara Thurber (38:59):
(laughs)
Joseph Rubelli (39:02):
And it's just a you know, and it's just
brilliant to me, because youknow, I am a huge Apple fan. And
I'm happy to be in theirecosystem. But if I was gonna go
to like, I went with a friendthe other day in Chelsea in New
York City, we went to the Googlestore and I said, I could never
go Google I can't be bothered tochange everything. I might as
well stick with Apple.
Tara Thurber (39:19):
(laughs)
Joseph Rubelli (39:19):
You know, it's like, but it's just it is like,
this is what I mean. Andmarketing can do this, you
actually have and it happens,you know, if we do an example of
digital products it can be Ihave that podcast that I love
and I cannot have enough of it.
I just want to listen to it.
From the podcasts, you can getthe person to join your email
list. So they get their emailwith the last episode on their
(39:42):
inbox, rather than go throughSpotify and get it there and
then so they're gonna be thereand then you can repurpose the
next week on Instagram orLinkedIn as a video whatever is
good. So the ecosystem can beeasy and super straightforward
or very complicated andeverything in between is just
metric testing, optimizing and repeating.
Tara Thurber (40:03):
I love this and I could probably keep picking your
brain for longer.
But thank you. Wewill stop here and I appreciate
you Joseph. I would love toshare links to Rubelli Digital
and anything else that we canshare with our audience. When we
go live, I'll make sure to getthat in there. And thank you,
(40:24):
thank you so very much forjoining us today.
Thank you. It was a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
We are DefinedTalent atDefinedLogic service coming to
you at Top5. Make it a great day.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefineTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
(00:20):
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us. Send it in and
you might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
co founder and director oftalent partnerships here at
DefineTalent And joining metoday is Joseph Rubelli, founder
and digital strategy expert atRubelli Digital. Rubelli Digital
(00:42):
is a result driven boutiqueagency that offers full service
creative social mediacapabilities. Hey, Joseph, how
are you today?
Joseph Rubelli (00:50):
Very well, how are you? Thank you for having
me.
Tara Thurber (00:53):
No problem excited to have you as our guest today.
Why don't we just jump rightinto this Joseph and if you
don't mind sharing a little bitabout yourself your professional
background and give us a littlebit about what Rubelli Digital
is.
Joseph Rubelli (01:07):
Absolutely. So my name is Joseph. I am the
founder and CEO of RubelliDigital, I started my marketing
career now 20 years ago, and Istarted in Italy. I worked in
Milan, I worked in London, and Imoved from Italy. I was born in
Italy and moved from Italy toLondon when I was 20. I started
(01:28):
working in sales in the beautyindustry, I was working in the
store and I was part of aprogram for executives that
allow you to do many differentroles within the company. So I
grew up in the role and then Imoved to London. And I started
working initially as a salescoordinator. And then I was
working on SAS coding with withthis company which was a startup
(01:50):
skincare at the time. And then Igrew into a marketing role. I
was a marketing executive, thenI became a social media
executive, then social mediamanager and influencer marketing
manager and then I became amanager. And then I one of my
last corporate job. I was asocial media director during the
pandemic.
Tara Thurber (02:08):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (02:08):
So I did many different jobs and all within
the beauty and fashion industry.
But in the last few years, I'dbe working more with real estate
service based businesses and Istarted Rubelli Digital. During
the pandemic, it was a timewhere everybody was looking for
solutions driven marketing andextremely strong ROI because, of
course, we had a lot ofchallenges during COVID. And I
(02:30):
put together strategies, and,you know, a series of
implementation that reallyworked. And I relocated to the
US a couple of years ago, and Istarted to work with my agency
in the US. And now we are a teamof four. And it has been a great
overall journey. Not an easyjourney, but a very exciting
(02:52):
journey.
Tara Thurber (02:55):
Well, just your professional path in general
seems like a pretty awesomejourney, to say the least. And
then to come to the US startingyour own boutique agency and
growing. It must be so exciting,too. I know. You know, during
COVID, it was a tough time. Itwas definitely a tough time. But
pushing through and getting towhere you're at today. I mean,
(03:17):
kudos to you, andcongratulations on that growth.
Joseph Rubelli (03:21):
Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate it. And yes,
you have been a learning curve.
I think when you build yourbrand, the line and I did it in
a way that was a bit different.
I was coming from a corporatebackground, so everything was in
place where it needed to be. AndI will just have to show up.
When you work in and you runyour own business, you have to
show up every day, even on thedays that you really don't feel
(03:42):
like it. So I started to buildmy social media presence online
after I quit my corporate job.
And I wanted to build acommunity of other business
owners and startups and I builda community at 45,000 people on
social media. And then I starteda podcast where I will interview
different leaders and they allowme to build authority within the
brand. And all of those stepswere little but they allow me to
(04:05):
gain the credibility andauthority that I have today in
the industry. And I feel this issomething that is very important
to remember is never a one sizefits all. It is never really an
overnight success. It's a stepof different action that you
take day by day to really leadyou to where you want to be.
Tara Thurber (04:29):
I love that a lot.
I love exactly how you put allthat. So I want to dive in a
little bit in regards tomarketing ROI. Would you be able
to briefly explain whatmarketing ROI means and why it
is crucial for businesses?
Joseph Rubelli (04:48):
Absolutely. So marketing ROI is really the
return of investment that youhave when you are investing
money within your marketing. Andthe reason why as an agency we
focus a lot on conversionmarketing lead generation is
because when I was working incorporate and I was in sales,
before I went to marketing, myfirst question would be like,
(05:08):
okay, great, but how is thisbringing any revenue? Whatever
strategy they might have, it wasalways about the revenue, and
why the revenue is not the onlything, it is one of the most
important things. And I alwayssay, it does not really matter
what type of marketing you do,if it doesn't bring you any
return, which could be traffic,it could be lead generation, it
(05:30):
could be sales, you really arenot maximizing your opportunity
with marketing. So ROI is reallymaking sure that everything you
share, whether there is anemail, whether it is a post on
Instagram, or a video on Tiktokis really moving the needle of
your customer journey fromdiscovery to purchase. And one
of the key parts of my servicesthat I really highlight the
(05:53):
importance of creating anecosystem. Funnily enough, I had
a meeting today, where I wastalking to these very big
corporation, they had a fullmarketing team, that they have a
person that does TikTok, theyhave a person that has an
Instagram, they have a personthat does Threads, you know, all
the socials are covered, butnone of the social is linked.
(06:15):
And when you go through, the waythey manage them is very much
content focused rather thanreturn of investment focused. So
why the two things are verydifferent, they should be
complimentary.
Tara Thurber (06:28):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (06:28):
So I set it to work with them to really make
sure that we connect all thedots. And it is one of the most
difficult part for businessesbecause often what happens you
have different type of contentthat gets created. And the way
you create content is aninterpretation that everybody
(06:48):
has differently.
Tara Thurber (06:49):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (06:49):
And often when I talk to different, they talk to
me about content marketing, likethey are content creators or
influencers, which is adifferent type of job compared
to having a business that youmarket it online. And I think
that's one of the biggestmisconception there.
Tara Thurber (07:05):
It's so interesting when it comes down
to it, because you can have allthe channels and be putting
stuff out there. But you'reright, it all needs to kind of
come together to show arelationship to build that
environment for that oneparticular business. And if
you're going in, if you're it'snot all inter connected, and
(07:27):
it's going in all differentdirections, then what is the
point I'm putting it even outthere? Right?
Joseph Rubelli (07:32):
Correct. I always bring this example. When
you are thinking about a socialmedia strategy for a business
and never invested in socialmedia, the first thing they will
tell you is that they arelooking to increase the brand
awareness, right? So really,what they're telling you is they
are looking to get moreattention towards the brand. And
(07:55):
why this is the first steptowards the next part, it is
really important to do that,what happens often they will get
the attention, they will get thelikes, they will get the
followers, they will get theviews, they will get the
engagement, but then they forgetabout the retention, okay, how
many of these people that I amcaptivating online, I am
(08:16):
actually converting? So I alwayssay the strategy has to be a
very good hybrid betweenattention and retention.
It has to be agreat balance between the two.
Tara Thurber (08:22):
Right.
And often what happens you havetwo different types of scenarios
that I work with, I have peoplewith very big following 500 to a
million to two million, they hada great presence online, but
their revenue is not coming fromsocial media. And they cannot
really work on the conversion.
It's just not converting as muchas they should be. Because what
(08:45):
happens, they build a verystrong community, they have the
engagement. But what happens istheir page became a commodity
for their followers, they gothere, they consume the content,
they get the information, butthey don't move to the next
stage of the customer journeybecause they get everything they
need on social.
(09:06):
So that's it.
That's done.
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (09:07):
Exactly you become a commodity there.
So that's thethat's the biggest challenge.
And the second type of client Iwork with is someone that is
clueless when it comes to socialmedia. So they need to start
from zero. And they are probablydoing their own marketing and
they are thinking okay, wherethe heck do I start?
What's the nextstep for me? There's so many
Tara Thurber (09:24):
Right (laughs).
platforms so many reel do I needto dance? Do I need to lip sync?
What do I need to do? And I'mlike, No, you don't have to do
any of that. We need to work onsomething that works with you
need to work with the platform,not for the platform.
Okay, I like thata lot. I like that a lot. Do
you? Do you get a lot ofcompanies that come to you that
(09:49):
already know who their idealclient is? Or is it do you get
clients that come to you thatare just like I have this
service or I have this productand how do I start making
revenue?
Joseph Rubelli (10:04):
I had both.
Tara Thurber (10:05):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (10:05):
Through the years and I have to say,
usually, the people that don'tknow, the ideal client that they
are looking to speak to are thesame people that think they have
no competitors. And when itcomes to the people there, they
know who they're speaking to,really, my job is to come there
(10:25):
and help them to fine tune themessaging, because you might
have an idea who yourdemographic is or who your
client avatar might look like.
When you posted the content, thecontent is not, it doesn't have
the right messages. So forexample, I'm targeting
millennials, with a servicebased business. And I am using a
copywriting that is just notreally speaking to them in a way
(10:47):
that is understood andperceived.
Tara Thurber (10:51):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (10:52):
In a way, there's way too corporate. So
people feel like, Oh, my God,that's not the right stage for
this. And they might be but themessaging the communication
channels are not optimized inline to make them feel like they
are the right stage of businessfor them to invest. So they move
on.
Tara Thurber (11:08):
Very interesting how that is. And then, kind of
going into my next questionhere. According to recent
research, statistics show thatinfluence marketing is expected
to be worth $24 billion by theend of the year. What are your
thoughts on this tactic? Is Goahead, answer that one. First.
(11:29):
We'll start there.
Joseph Rubelli (11:30):
Influencer marketing is a very powerful
tool, however, the ways to doinfluencer marketing are plenty.
And I feel even though this hasbeen an avenue of marketing that
has been happening for a longtime, people still don't really
optimize it to the way it shouldbe. So, when it comes to
influencer marketing, you wantto make sure that the creators
(11:51):
you are working with the rightpeople for your business.
Now, somethingthat a lot of people do not
Tara Thurber (11:56):
For your business.
understand what you feel as amarketer is that their main job
of a content creator orinfluencer is that they need to
sell content. That's what theyoffer, they sell content and
they sell a space in their pageto brands in light to advertise
a product that the brand wantsto sell to their demographic
(12:17):
because that's who they want tospeak to. So that's a direct
channel to consumer compared toa magazine a few years ago,
where you will have an advertthere, but you will not know how
many people actually look atthat or how many people actually
convert. So influence marketingis brilliant. However, the way
influence marketing is changingis through a different approach.
(12:40):
We went from the very salesyapproach, I love this product,
this is what I'm obsessed with,you should buy it to more about
It can be trickyit sounds (laughs)! It's almost
the storytelling of the brand.
It's using influencer marketingas a way to tell the story of
the company from a differentangle. And you know, you have
company like, Tiffany's orcompany like they've been in the
business for a long time. Butthey haven't really invested in
(13:02):
influencer marketing before,they are starting to do it now
in a way that is like Okay,great. Let me show you what we
are about through this person.
So I think what's happening iswe going from the classical
message copy and paste thatevery content creator requested
from last week to something thatrequires a bit of a bit more
(13:25):
strategy and I work with manydifferent content creators,
content creators are great but,you know, you need to find the
good ones and people that reallyunderstand the brand's strategy
overall and they put some efforton what they create and you need
to give a good creative freedomto the person like to make them
feel that the content theycreated is aligned what they
(13:48):
usually do but is also alignedwith the company which is why
there needs to be a system in placewhat happens if you choose the
wrong influencer and you kind ofput all this money with
businesses that have a smallbudget or are trying things what
(14:11):
happens then if that doesn'twork and you're sinking your
money into this how dobusinesses find their way out?
Joseph Rubelli (14:23):
I will share a simple example of this because I
work with content creators andinfluencers with small budget
and so that way based on thecampaign you're you're looking
to work with you want to divideyour strategy into different
sizes of influences. So if youwant to gain awareness, you want
(14:43):
to go with the bigger numbers.
So the bigger the contentcreator the more reach there
will have and so therefore, ifyour main goal is to get
awareness for the brand or toget attention, those are the
people you need to work with.
You want them to create somecontent that is predominantly
video that you can use orrepurpose on an ad later on.
Tara Thurber (15:03):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (15:04):
And then if you instead are looking for
attention, and you say, okay,great, we have the attention,
but we need to start theconversion, you can start to
work with content creators thatare a little bit smaller, we're
talking, you know, 50, to 100k,those usually are the one that
have the community that is themost invested. They're the one
(15:24):
that are bringing theconversion, they're bringing the
lead. So you can track that indifferent ways. I've done this
in the over the years, manydifferent ways, I did this
through a link where the personwill use the link, and sometimes
they get permission. They're notagain, it was a marketing isn't
affiliate marketing. So youshould pay as a company, the
(15:45):
content of the campaign that theperson is with, because usually
what happens is I mean, I as anagency, we work with brands, and
I have to partner in my agencythat I work with, and we create
content for them what we do, wecreate campaigns together.
Tara Thurber (15:59):
Okay.
Joseph Rubelli (15:59):
And then the campaigns is involving a set
amount of placements, which arethe set amount of posts. And
that's what you pay for. And youcan also add to it a link where
the person can share this linkthrough their community. So you
can track the conversion of thataccount. And that's usually the
best way to work with contentcreators, again, 50 to 100k
(16:21):
200k, those are the ones thatwill convert the most the one
over a million are great forattention, but not brilliant for
retention.
Tara Thurber (16:28):
Okay, that's understandable. So then, in
looking at well establishedcompanies that have existed for
decades, that are reluctant tochange marketing tactics, or try
new channels, what is youradvice to a young marketer
dealing with generation gaps andtrying to, I don't want to say
(16:51):
recreate the wheel, but expand?
Joseph Rubelli (16:55):
Yeah, so this is a great question. Because this
has been a significant part ofmy job for a long time. Because
when I started working on socialmedia, social media was really
new. So I remember going to myboss and say, I think we should
make an effort to invest timeand energy into this, because
that's what is going to generaterevenue with. And I remember
(17:17):
preparing a whole case study andand whole business case to show
them how to do it. What happens,and the advice I will give to
any young marketer that islooking to work with bigger
companies, is to focus less onthe metrics, or social media,
which I call the vanity metrics,the lives the followers, the
(17:37):
engagement, you want to reallytalk about the real marketing
behind it, how do you take thatperson from discovery to
purchase in the customerjourney? So focus on how is this
post is going to generate morerevenue for the business? Or if
it's not revenue? How is itgoing to generate more leads? So
(17:59):
if you create an Instagramstrategy? How is this post gonna
increase the traffic to thewebsite? So instead of talking
about awareness, you can say,okay, great, you can you know,
I've been in rooms before withyounger social media managers
talking about percentages ofawareness for the company
awareness is not quantifiablebecause awareness doesn't really
(18:21):
pay the bills, what really youcan switch that is, okay, great,
this strategy will increase,there is a forecast that he will
increase traffic by 50% on thewebsite. So that's how you can
quantify and really understandwhat language the person who is
in front of you speaks, if theperson is all about numbers, you
need to make the case aboutthat.
Tara Thurber (18:42):
The numbers talk (laughs).
Joseph Rubelli (18:43):
Exactly. At the end of the day, numbers speak.
And even in marketing, postingon Instagram is not marketing,
you need a strategy thatinvolves posting on it, you
know, I always bring thisexample in my community, there's
a difference between contentmarketing and marketing content.
Content marketing is the contentthat is moving the needle from
discovery to purchase on socialmedia. Marketing content, is
(19:07):
making sure that the contentthat you create and is
distributed in a way that isactually bringing the return of
investment when a company wantsand that's where the expertise
comes in. It's all aboutcreating the video, it's about
making sure that what you'redoing is effectively moving that
needle that we mentioned before.
Tara Thurber (19:24):
It's very interesting how it kind of is in
two different ways. But beingable to create campaigns and
build or have that ROI. It'sreally important for businesses
to understand the two differentaspects that we that you just
(19:45):
brought up there where it'smarketing content or content
marketing, right? So what andyou know, let me ask you a
question like this too. Forsmaller businesses and startups
what happens if maybe they'vegot a strategy, but they don't
have a budget to put intocontent marketing? Is there any
(20:06):
advice you would give some ofthe smaller businesses that
really have like zero to nobudget?
Joseph Rubelli (20:12):
Absolutely. Like if you're doing your marketing,
the best way to market yourbusiness is to really make sure
you're showing up on socialmedia. And instead of talking
about what you sell,predominantly talk about why you
started and how are you takingthe person from point A to point
(20:32):
B, making sure you are the faceof what you're selling the
product because realistically,what happens, especially in
platforms, such as Instagram, orFacebook, they are very
emotional platform, people builda connection with the person in
that screen. And that personbecomes a medium between what
they sell in and who they sellit to. And so what happens there
(20:54):
is, if you're able to documentyour journey as an entrepreneur,
and show what you are working onin taking the audience, along
with you, people will feelinvested. And that's how you're
going to warm them up toultimately purchase. Don't feel
ashamed to sell a product. Ithink that's another problem. I
(21:14):
feel like a lot of times, smallentrepreneurs to do their own
marketing. They don't want tosound salesy, so they never talk
about the product. And they getthe engagement because they
create a lot of educationalcontent, and it's great, but
then it doesn't sell. So it's alot of time that you put into
something that is not bringingyou anything back, other than
great vanity metrics, if youwill. So you want to make sure
(21:35):
that the way you invest thattime was social, it's super
valuable. I actually didrecently a masterclass where I
teach my community how to spendless time on social media more
time in their business. And it'sall about understanding this
pattern, and what type ofcontent they should be putting
out there and when. So it's awhole 60 minutes social media
(21:57):
training that I do and iscompletely free. So it's like it
gives a lot of perspective. AndI talk about this all the time,
I started to post significantlyless this year, because I
started to focus more onbusiness development, and why I
post less the amount of leadsand sales that comes from my
(22:18):
social media is exactly the sameas it was last year, because the
strategy's right. So it's reallyabout replaces recipe strategy,
I always mentioned that it'svery important.
Tara Thurber (22:26):
I like that a lot.
Because there is a lot of stress
Joseph Rubelli (22:27):
Yeah, exactly.
And it's really about opening aunder it. And to come up with a
strategy and maybe you launchthat strategy, and maybe it
fails. But talking about thatconversation. That's the whole
point of social is I'm gonnajourney talking about that. And
from what I gather, too, when webring you an example, if you
allow me to.
think about social media, it'stied to emotions, it's that
(22:51):
feeling behind it, that you wantyour audience to feel. So
instead of it just being printin a newspaper or a magazine,
it's really showing up andbringing that emotion to it in
order to create engagement.
Tara Thurber (23:08):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (23:16):
Of a client of mine works in accounting and
bookkeeping, very differentindustry to market on social
media. So we work together on astrategy. And my client is a
millennial, but she's veryintroverted. Very, very good at
what she does veryknowledgeable, but she's not one
of those people that would jumpon camera and talk to the
audience. Because her style.
(23:37):
When we worktogether on the strategy, we
Tara Thurber (23:37):
Right.
work on a strategy where sheposts three times a week, and
she shows up predominantly onLinkedIn, and Instagram. And the
first question I asked you asOkay, great, what do you feel
more comfortable in terms ofcontent to create? Because
everybody's different. Somepeople like to jump on camera
and do a video, some people liketo write a blog, some people
(23:58):
like to post a picture and put acaption on it, you need to
understand what makes you feelcomfortable, and what you can do
a lot of it without gettingburnout. So she said I love
writing. And I said, brilliant.
So we're going to start with awriting. So I said, Why don't we
do a blog per week, and we picka topic, and this is the topic
that we're going to talk abouton the page. For the whole week.
(24:19):
This is the topic we're gonnause. So I said, the way we're
going to distribute thisinformation will be different.
We're going to use the blog andthen we're going to create an
infographic where we're going totalk about the key points of
that blog. And we're going toopen up conversation on the
comments by using a veryengaging caption, and then you
can jump on stories. And she is,again one on one of those people
(24:41):
that will never speak on story.
So what we set out to do is Iwant you to film yourself while
you're working while you'retyping on the phone. When you
type it on the phone. Whenyou're tapping on the laptop,
you put your phone on the sideand you start recording on a
time lapse. Then you say thatand you take the information of
the blog that you paraphrasethem and you post them on
stories, then you ask theaudience what they think. And in
(25:04):
reality, what happens is we havea 20% creation, which is the
blog and 80% distribution,because the content is the same,
this allow her to be consistent.
And this allows her to bepresent in a way that feels
right to her. It is not workingfor the platform, when you are
working with a platform. That'sa very simple example of how we
develop a strategy or Rubellitogether to make sure that the
(25:25):
person feel comfortable, butalso that the marketing works.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah, no, and I, Ilove it. I love how you it's
kind of it's specialized, it'sindividualized and specialize
per the type of client, theperson behind it, which I think
is really important, because youneed to make sure that you're
(25:45):
tied to the product or thebusiness itself that you're
trying to put out there. So thatyou show up authentically,
Exactly and the way we sharecontent, usually. And I always
say this the way when I workwith strategies, and when I
create strategy with clients,the way I create the content, is
(26:06):
to target each part of thecustomer journey, the customer
journey for every one of us,depending on the industry, but
pretty much is always the same.
It's like page one, I don'treally know I have a problem. I
don't know, I need a solution.
Joseph Rubelli (26:18):
Right?
Tara Thurber (26:18):
So it's what I call problem awareness content,
stage number two, I know I havea problem, I don't really know
what this solution is. So that'sconsideration content, that's
where you have your educationaltutorial content. Stage number
three is like great. I know Ihave a problem. I know what the
solution is, I don't really knowwhere to buy it from. So that's
(26:38):
why you said to look at thereviews, and you start to look
at the different type of peoplethat work with that person to
understand whether you can beone of those person too is stage
number four. Okay, great. Now Iknow what I want, I'm ready to
invest. Can I trust this person?
So that's where you go throughthe whole journey again, you're
like, Okay, great. So I feellike this is the right person
for me. And that's where thecontent has to this is what I
(26:59):
mean, by taking the person fromdiscovery to purchase.
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (27:04):
You're selling through your content at
different stages. And whenpeople find you, they might be
one of those four stages, butyou've given them some pay for
each one of them in a way thatmakes sense to them at that
time. And that's where, youknow, strategy comes in, because
that's what I help clients to doto make sure that each piece of
content has a purpose.
Tara Thurber (27:24):
That's fantastic, Joseph, it's very eye opening.
For me, when we think about howbusinesses can fail relating to
all of this because they're notlistening, they're not paying
attention. So it's veryinteresting and it sounds to
that the types of businesses arethe range. So to be able, for
(27:47):
you to be able to share all thisinformation is is very valuable,
because a lot of businessesengage socially in so many
different ways. And by openingup the ideas or the strategies
behind it, I feel it can hiteverybody in a different way in
(28:08):
order to help them. I want tokind of jump in with a fun
question here really quickly. Asa marketer, I'm sure you've
probably analyzed hundreds ofadvertising campaigns. What is
one campaign that stood out toyou perhaps one of those jingles
that you can't quite get out ofyour head and I don't know if I
(28:31):
want to share it, because thenit's going to be stuck in my
head. But tell me something fun.
Joseph Rubelli (28:37):
I wouldn't sit so in terms of you wouldn't be a
jingle but it was I'm going tobring to the example number one
is the Dunkin Donuts and BenAffleck collaboration for the
Superbowl. I love the way thatwas done. I thought that was
creative, different. And weshould they've shown a pot of
Ben Affleck that you wouldn'tnecessarily see.
Tara Thurber (28:59):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (29:00):
And there was a different personality that can
now and he was quiteinteresting. And there was also
that celebrity status with J. LoI thought that was really fun
and creative. I did a wholebrand analysis on my page about
that campaign. And I broke itdown on why did they decide to
use Ben Affleck and the idea wasthat they were trying to appeal
to make Dunkin Donuts more of afun brand. And also moving away
(29:24):
from donuts because now theyrebranded to Dunkin.
Tara Thurber (29:28):
Just Dunkin'.
Joseph Rubelli (29:29):
Yeah. And the second one, it's in fashion. I'm
a huge fashion fan. I lovefashion. And I think the way
Mary Kate and Ashley Olsenmarketed the Row recently for
their fashion week in Paris wasphenomenal because they did a
whole strategy campaign whereyou will go as an influencer to
(29:52):
their fashion to the fashionshow, but you were not allowed
to take pictures or shareanything on social media. It was
completely blackout, you are notallowed to have any phones.
Tara Thurber (30:02):
Wow.
Joseph Rubelli (30:02):
And what this did was triggered a lot of PR.
Tara Thurber (30:06):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (30:07):
PR generate sales.
Tara Thurber (30:08):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (30:09):
Also keeping the exclusivity of the brand because
they are looking to be anexclusive brand, someone that is
listening who doesn't know whatthe role is the role is the
brand created the Mary Kate fromMary Kate and Ashley Olsen. The
concept that they have a fewyears ago was to create a
perfect t shirt. And from there,they created a whole brand where
the unique selling point is thematerial you have 100% cotten
(30:30):
100% cashmere, very particularhigh end material, super high
quality, and also captivating astyle that is very significant
to them, which is something thatwent from very gaudy to what
nowadays define quiet luxery.
And what happens with thiscampaign, and the reason why I
thought it was genius is becausein a world where everything you
(30:50):
do doesn't really count, unlessyou share it. Is sort of trigger
the question to every personthat obviously make a lot of
money out of creating content,if you're not sharing it on
social media, were you eventhere? That's the whole question
that they wanted to createaround the and I thought that
(31:12):
was a thought provoking anglethat made a lot of people talk
created a lot of buzz andmarketed the brand through the
old PR strategy, because theyhad a lot of press through that.
Because there was a way it wentcompletely the opposite
direction of any brands. We haveTarte cosmetics, which is a
beauty brands that spentmillions of dollars to send
people to the Middle East tohave a great time and create a
(31:34):
lot of content in Dubai. Andthen we have the Row, which is
sending 10 influencer 20 to afashion week and then not
allowed their phone. So what isleft for them to share? So I
thought that was veryinteresting. And I like things
that are contrary is somethingthat is completely different.
And I thought you know, if youlook at the way the Road works,
(31:54):
and the brand, the way they doit, they ultimately are
competing with Hermes, they wantto be the new Hermes. So they
want to be associated to that.
Like they have a bag now thatbecame the seat bag. And now the
sisters are really upset aboutit. Because the bread, the the
the bag is getting a lot ofpress, but he's losing the
(32:16):
acquisition of the brand. Sothey might discontinue that
back.
Tara Thurber (32:20):
Wow.
Joseph Rubelli (32:21):
That's how they are. You know, it's really about
that. And I thought that's avery refreshing angle to me. And
I thought that campaign reallycaught my attention because he
was just interesting.
Tara Thurber (32:32):
But all of those are very interesting. And it's
almost taking a step back andbeing able to get creative, but
making an impact in a differentway. It just it's to me, it's
very interesting. I want to godo more research on it now.
Joseph Rubelli (32:48):
Yeah, you go check it out. There was a big
conversation around this. Andone last one I want to share if
you allow me to
Tara Thurber (32:54):
Yeah.
Joseph Rubelli (32:55):
A bit different is when we look at the world of
collaboration between brands,right? We seen a collaboration
that I thought was reallyinteresting was Adidas and Gucci
together completely different.
Why do they do it? Well, Adidasis ultimately looking to
captivate a newer demographic,someone who has more power than
then someone who is a Gen Zbelonging to a specific socio
(33:19):
economic demographic. So whatthey did was, well, why don't we
partner with Gucci, why don't wedo something that is very
different, very unique, and weare putting the price up really
high, we increasing a price. Sothis will open the door to then
create a new collection in thefuture there will be a higher
(33:40):
price. So Gucci was at the sametime looking to have more of a
athletic wear, type of customerbecause they spend a lot of time
and money to create a lot ofathletic wear and a lot of you
know sportswear and stuff sowhat they set out to do they
combined together so Gucci couldhave that athletic wear consumer
and Adidas could raise theirprice in a way that felt
(34:03):
organic, even though he wasn'tbecause it was related to a
campaign.
Tara Thurber (34:07):
Wow. The sky's the limit. I feel like there's so
many different ideas. Coming indifferently, is really something
that allows businesses to stepoutside of that, that comfort
zone, where it's the monotony ofthe day to day and opening up
the doors to a differentaudience. And that is where
(34:34):
growth happens. It's not dumpingmore money into their current
strategy, but thinking outsideof the box, and opening up to
more to a different audience inorder to create growth.
Joseph Rubelli (34:46):
Mm hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And it's really
about the way you communicate.
And if someone wants to see Italk about communication through
visual branding, for example,quite a lot of my page talks
about how hollows can make ahuge impact in your messaging
and stuff like that on my page,you're more than welcome. If
you're listening to check thatout, I do a series called visual
branding, where I take eachcolor of the palette and I
(35:08):
explain how does that affectyour sale and your sales page?
So it's really interesting.
Tara Thurber (35:14):
We'll definitely have to share that when we post
this podcast.
Joseph Rubelli (35:17):
Yes!
Tara Thurber (35:19):
So Joseph, please, please, please share your Top5
Reasons Businesses Fail Relatingto Marketing ROI.
Joseph Rubelli (35:27):
Right. Number one is creating content. And,
you know, briefing their socialmedia team to create content
like content creators, they arefocusing on content, they're not
focusing on business strategy,they are separating the two. The
second reason why they fail isthey don't stick to strategy for
(35:48):
long enough to make it work. Ialways say when you're testing
something new, you need to giveat least six months to that to
have enough data for you to thenoptimize it and repeat what
works anything before that isjust a trial it's not a
strategy. Number three isdefinitely been behind. When it
comes to the way the platformwork. If you are looking to do a
(36:12):
digital marketing strategy, youneed to be willing to get
updates and make sure that youare on top of the game when it
comes to what's going on withinthat platform.
Tara Thurber (36:20):
Right.
Joseph Rubelli (36:21):
And another one is spreading yourself too thin
and be present everywhere inevery single platform and just
repurpose what you have everyway in the in the hope that
something is going to stick.
It's better to be in lessplatform, and with a strategy
that is connecting all of themtogether rather than going
everywhere and just doing copyand pasting. And then another
one, I will say it's usually theway people look at marketing is
(36:52):
very much is like mono channelinstead of being omni channel,
right? It's really that lack ofecosystem that we mentioned
before, making sure that all thepoints are connected, to get up
from your email, to yourpodcasts, from your podcasts, to
your social everything should beconnected.
Unknown (37:14):
I love all of these only because it gives people and
businesses. It's shedding lighton different things that
companies are doing and maybenot succeeding in. And so being
able to take the reasons thatbusinesses can fail for that.
(37:36):
Taking that and shifting it tothen find success. And I think
with everything that you'veshared today, Joseph, there's
definitely some businesses outthere that will find success in
a different way. And I just Ireally value everything that
you've brought to the tabletoday because I think it's
important for companies tounderstand what can work and
(37:58):
what can't work, but it's reallya matter of just showing up and
making that strategy and havingthat and pushing forward.
Joseph Rubelli (38:07):
Yeah, absolutely. I can bring if you
allow me an example.
Tara Thurber (38:11):
Please.
Joseph Rubelli (38:12):
Of a good ecosystem that I think we all
fell for less once Apple is thebest at doing this. Because you
will go and either you startwith an iMac or with an iPhone,
then they get you into theiCloud so all your data is in
the iCloud. And so what happensthe next person that you do will
be an Apple product because youwant to be linked to the iCloud.
Tara Thurber (38:34):
Yup.
Joseph Rubelli (38:34):
iCloud is the magnet to everything in the
ecosystem because all yourinformation is there. You don't
want to be bothered to changeeverything. So you go with the
iMac, then you go on iPhone. Andthen well I want some
headphones, I might as well getthe airport's because they're
connected, my phone is justeasy. And then Okay, great. I
can't see very well, I needsomething bigger. But I already
(38:54):
have a Mac and I don't want toget anything else. Maybe again,
iPad, there we go. They got youinto the ecosystem.
Tara Thurber (38:59):
(laughs)
Joseph Rubelli (39:02):
And it's just a you know, and it's just
brilliant to me, because youknow, I am a huge Apple fan. And
I'm happy to be in theirecosystem. But if I was gonna go
to like, I went with a friendthe other day in Chelsea in New
York City, we went to the Googlestore and I said, I could never
go Google I can't be bothered tochange everything. I might as
well stick with Apple.
Tara Thurber (39:19):
(laughs)
Joseph Rubelli (39:19):
You know, it's like, but it's just it is like,
this is what I mean. Andmarketing can do this, you
actually have and it happens,you know, if we do an example of
digital products it can be Ihave that podcast that I love
and I cannot have enough of it.
I just want to listen to it.
From the podcasts, you can getthe person to join your email
list. So they get their emailwith the last episode on their
(39:42):
inbox, rather than go throughSpotify and get it there and
then so they're gonna be thereand then you can repurpose the
next week on Instagram orLinkedIn as a video whatever is
good. So the ecosystem can beeasy and super straightforward
or very complicated andeverything in between is just
metric testing, optimizing and repeating.
Tara Thurber (40:03):
I love this and I could probably keep picking your
brain for longer.
But thank you. Wewill stop here and I appreciate
you Joseph. I would love toshare links to Rubelli Digital
and anything else that we canshare with our audience. When we
go live, I'll make sure to getthat in there. And thank you,
(40:24):
thank you so very much forjoining us today.
Thank you. It was a pleasure.
Thank you so much.
We are DefinedTalent atDefinedLogic service coming to
you at Top5. Make it a great day.
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