April 2, 2024 • 27 mins
Over 80% of employers and employees believe creating a sense of community at work is important. What is an innovative community-building tool that works both virtually and in person?
Brandon Wetzstein, Founder & Chief Team Builder at IN8 Create, joins Tara Thurber to share his Top5 Reasons LEGO® Builds Better Teams.
IN8 Create leverages LEGO® Serious Play® to engage participants in sharing stories about themselves in a fun and psychologically safe way.
- Diminished Consciousness of Self
- Inverted Persuasion
- Equitable Expression
- Curious Listening
- Time Compression
Speaker Bio - Brandon is driven by a passion to reshape the way we collaborate. In a world brimming with digital tools and automation, he's convinced that our real strength lies in how well we work together. With this belief, he founded IN8 Create, aiming to unearth the hidden potential in all of us. Given the right tools, environment, and support, Brandon believes we can reach incredible heights, enriching our lives, relationships, and communities.
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Episode Transcript
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Brandon Wetzstein (00:04):
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefinedTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us? Send it in and
(00:29):
you might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
co founder and director oftalent partnerships here at
DefinedTalent. And joining metoday is Brandon Wetzstein,
founder and chief team builderat IN8 Create. Hey, Brandon, how
are you today?
All right, fantastic. Happy tobe here.
Tara Thurber (00:50):
Awesome. I just want to dive right in. Because I
want to get to the meat andpotatoes of this. But tell us a
little bit about yourself andwhy you started IN8 Create.
Brandon Wetzstein (01:01):
Absolutely. I spent most of my career working
in big corporations, Fortune 500large companies and one of the
most common challenges I foundis I constantly worked with
smart, intelligent, inspiringpeople, as individuals. And yet
when we got together as groupsand teams that intelligence
(01:25):
never seem to fully cometogether, right? And in teams as
we work together, there's somuch to be had, there's so much
benefit to how we collaborate,how we work together yet, I
think general group dynamicssometimes makes it really hard
to do that effectively andconstantly was walking out of
meetings going like, Well, thatdidn't go as well as we thought
it should (laughs).
Tara Thurber (01:44):
Right! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (01:44):
I know, I'm not the only one who's had that
Inkling. And so I started in acreate. And I named my
organization IN8 Create, becauseI believe that we have so much
more to offer so much more tooffer so much more to give,
whether it's ideas, insights,knowledge. And I just know with
the right tools with the rightmethods that we can be better
(02:07):
together. And that's what I'mhoping to do more of right help
teams be better together.
Tara Thurber (02:12):
I love that so much, Brandon and it's going on
a lot out there where you know,coming together as teams, and
doing things together andbuilding that culture together.
You get to learn more about eachother. And there's different
ways that people communicate,there's different ways that
people problem solve. And bycoming together and learning
(02:33):
those ways how other people areI feel that teams can even come
closer together.
Brandon Wetzstein (02:42):
Absolutely.
And you know, especially nowwhen there's we're in this like
just this weird space, right?
We're now we've got, there's ahandful of people are back in
the office. And most of them arenot that happy about it.
Tara Thurber (02:54):
Yep.
Brandon Wetzstein (02:54):
And we write the hybrid folks who are a
little bit from home and alittle bit at work, and they're
still figuring out what doesthat flow look like? And how do
we truly amplify that timetogether. And then we've got the
fully remote workers, right?
Tara Thurber (03:07):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (03:07):
Which is super cool and convenient. But
there's a trade off there.
Right? And although convenienceis amazing, I mean, I work
remote, but I know that inperson connection, right is
missing them, right? Like you wedon't have true eye contact. We
don't have oxytocin floodingthrough our veins, because we
haven't seen each otherphysically. So how do we, again,
how do we utilize various toolsor methods to get people to
(03:30):
connect to get them to workbetter together? And and that's
why I love what I do. And it isa blast and and I do it with
Legos, which makes it even morefun (laughs).
Tara Thurber (03:41):
(laughs) So excited. So let me ask how do
Legos have all the toys that areout there - How do Legos promote
communication and collaborationamong team members? And what
role does this play in fosteringstronger team dynamics?
Brandon Wetzstein (03:59):
Absolutely.
Fantastic question. Because youwould think Legos are they're
just a toy, right? It's justlike, What do you mean Legos?
And Lego has been using tons ofTeam buildings over the years.
In fact, I meet peopleconstantly at conferences and
tours, they tell me about theirLego team building experience.
One of the things I'm using aunique methodology called Lego
serious play. This is notsomething I made up I wish I was
(04:20):
this mark back in the late 90s,the chairman of Lego really
wanted to find a way to injectcreativity and imagination into
strategy. And so they createdthis group that built this, they
built this method called Legoserious play. And if we were
having this conversation 20years ago, you wouldn't be
talking to Lego. They sold thisas a consulting service, they
would come in and teach yourcompany how to run these really,
(04:41):
really unique, really amazingworkshops using one of those.
Now, like it's clearly beenpretty successful (laughs).
Tara Thurber (04:52):
Just a little bit, I mean... (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (04:54):
So they don't really do consulting work
anymore, at least not thismethodology. So now anyone can
go out get their hands on thismethodology and either get
certified or read books andfigure out how to do it, which
is what I did. I was certifiedin 2019. But what I've done is
I've adapted this to reallycreate short, really immersive
and impactful sessions wherethere's a lot of insight shared
(05:17):
in a very short period of time.
And so how does this really kindof drive communication and
collaboration? People arebuilding Lego models, using
metaphor and storytelling. Sothey're not actually building
ships. They're not buildingplanes. They're building
thoughts. They're buildingstories. And so a question I
might ask would be, build amodel that tells a story about
who you are outside of work. Nowyou can answer that in whatever
(05:39):
the way you want, right? There'sno right or wrong answer. That's
one of the major keys of Legoseries play, there's no right or
wrong answer, whatever you buildis 100%. Correct. Because I'm
asking your opinion, I'm askingyour story.
And so thisreally drives communication and
Tara Thurber (05:51):
Right. Wow.
collaboration, because everyonegets a chance to build a model,
they all have the same kit ofLegos. And then everyone gets to
tell their story, right? This iswhat I built, this is what this
means. So you're really you'rehearing everyone at the table,
everyone gets a voice. And themodel also makes it so it
compresses information a littlebit. So most people can tell
(06:13):
their story in 90 seconds orless, which is kind of amazing,
because I don't think mostpeople can't tell a story in 90 seconds.
Wow (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (06:21):
But the model holds a lot of the
communication.
Tara Thurber (06:24):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (06:24):
What did that other person build? So it just
Tara Thurber (06:24):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (06:24):
So you get a lot of information and a little
creates this playful way for usto really communicate and listen
bit of time, what that reallymeans is you also get to listen
to everyone, right? look at thisweird little model that you
built. And you look at mine, I'mcurious, what did Tara build?
to each other. And that reallyhelps drive that connection. And
(06:47):
really the collaboration becausewe're all listening to each
other.
Tara Thurber (06:49):
Yeah, I love that.
And I think communication iskey. Especially when you're in a
team setting. You know, I thinka lot of people will go into a
team setting or a meeting andeverybody's off, you know,
everybody has their own world,everybody has their own things
that are going on. And so to beable to come together and listen
and learn. You all become one,essentially, on this team as you
(07:17):
go through this processtogether. Seems so awesome.
Brandon Wetzstein (07:23):
Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it'samazing to see how it just, it
really, completely removes ournormal environment.
That's whatabout the things that always
Tara Thurber (07:33):
Yeah.
bothered me, right? doingworkshops, and my previous
lives, like, we always need likea facilitated methodology to get
us out of that normal, like,let's all just sit in a room and
talk because there's a reasonthat doesn't work that well,
right?
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (07:47):
We can't do it can't worship everything.
Tara Thurber (07:50):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (07:50):
But there's a time where you're like, Okay,
no, like, we really need to likethink, you know, be thorough
with our thoughts and make sureeveryone gets a voice. And when
we do that, that's when we walkaway with a solution where
you're going, yeah, yeah, thismakes sense. Like we did the
work. We did the hard work tocome up with the solution that
we needed. And that's, I thinkthis Lego method really just
makes it much easier to do thatis it takes away the group
(08:12):
dynamic stuff that generallygets in our way.
Tara Thurber (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So in what ways would you sayusing Legos in team building
activities can enhance problemsolving skills, also facilitate
creativity and innovation withinteams? In a group setting.
Brandon Wetzstein (08:32):
Yeah, absolutely. And, going back to
the method itself is a couplethings going on. One is, we're
in a playful setting. And thisis a very important delineation
to make. Whereas some might kindof kind of go, Oh, it's just
play, and maybe toss that aside.
This is actually what you want,right? When you think about
(08:53):
creativity and imagination andgetting better ideas getting
outside of your own way. Play isactually the place you want to
be think about it right? When wegrow up. We look at kids play as
a way where we expand our minds,right? We're no ideas are bad
ideas. The best brainstorms outthere are built around quantity
of ideas, you want volume, youdon't want to judge things and
(09:14):
push down people's ideas orthoughts. So this playful,
imaginative state is where youwant people to be. And when you
give them a bunch of Lego bricksand say, like, go nuts, right?
Tara Thurber (09:26):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (09:26):
Have some fun with this. What also really
happens is people pour theirenergy into that. And this is
one of the things I found too,where instead in a group
setting, right, especially whenwe're looking at ideating,
trying to problem solve, we are,for good reason, we are
persuasive creatures. We'retrying to write show we're
(09:49):
trying to prove our place in thegroup. We're doing more than
just solving where there's awhole lot of ego and positioning
and things going on, right?
Tara Thurber (09:55):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (09:56):
That get in the way or or maybe you're the
introvert who doesn't speak butbecause you're making that
confident to, you know, tell theextrovert who hasn't stopped
talking to the last night we'relike.
Tara Thurber (10:04):
Yep (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (10:05):
But then now, instead of being that persuasive
person, like, how do I show upas the smart person? How do I
show up as like - how do I getmy idea to be the best? That
energy is now really pushedinto? How do we make a really
creative and compelling model?
And now you're starting to thinkabout what is a great answer to
this question? And so I think ofsome of the interesting
(10:28):
questions I've asked in variousworkshops, like around
communication, like, what isworld class communication look
like? What does that teach you?
Okay, well, here you go. No, ofcourse, no, I don't give people
a half hour build with Legos,and maybe three, maybe five
minutes, oh, your brain isworking in a completely
(10:48):
different way than it normallywould. In fact, when we're, when
we're verbally speaking, we'reusually only accessing our
prefrontal cortex.
Tara Thurber (10:55):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (10:56):
When we're working with our hands, we're
actually accessing many moreparts of our brain that aren't
normally lit up in regularconversations. So you're
actually getting more of yourknowledge access, you're hitting
more parts of your brain, you'relighting up more neural
networks, which can spark newideas and different thoughts.
Also, you're building it out of3D, and Lego bricks, right? It's
(11:17):
something you can physicallysee. And so you can constantly
play and manipulate your modelagain, within the time
constraints given.
But you getto see your idea. And that's
Tara Thurber (11:24):
Right.
kind of amazing, right? Andsaying it's one thing and
writing it down is another butsomething, you build this model,
and then you start to get moreideas, as you build it, as you
expand on it. And you can playwith it, you can flip it around,
you can also be a little bitless attached to it, though,
which is, I think, is alsoimportant when it comes to
ideas. Because a lot of timeswhen we think of in the
(11:46):
innovation space, like we loveour ideas, there are bands, we
came up with them.
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (11:50):
Suddenly, this thing is external to us.
Now it's a little bit easiermaybe to look at it, as upside
of us, it's a little bit easierto share it and maybe see that
it is a cool idea. But now Ijust saw eight other ideas
around the table. And I can seehow they're similar in some ways
to others. So this is reallywhere I think it comes into
problem solving, innovation,creativity, it's taking just
(12:11):
that normal way we do thingsthat completely flipping it from
externalizing it, making it 3D,allowing you to see everyone
else, but also putting a littlebit of time pressure on it. So
you can't sit all day, right?
But also play like make it fun,make it creative, go for unique.
Tara Thurber (12:27):
Right. Well, and I think that that's super
interesting, too, because it, italmost breaks down some walls
for individuals. And I thinkthat that can be really huge in
a team setting. Because you'reall on the same playing field at
that point, with the use ofwhat's been put in front of you,
(12:48):
and you all get to then createsomething out of really nothing
to bring it to the table. Soeverybody gets to do it at the
same time within the same timeconstraints. And it kind of
blossoms, the new ideas or thecamaraderie and this kind of
(13:09):
goes into my next question inregards to how can the tactile
nature of Lego constructioncontribute to not only this
communication and creativity andinnovation, but how does it
contribute to the teams withbuilding trust and camaraderie
around the team members? And howdoes that translate to improve
(13:32):
performance in a professionalsetting, too?
Brandon Wetzstein (13:36):
Yeah, great question. I think, for me, a lot
of it is the information thatcomes out in these sessions.
Again, the Lego it is supercool. But at the end of the day,
right? It's a method, it's amethod to get at information.
And like you just said itperfectly. It breaks down walls
and barriers that are normallythere. And the one of the things
(13:58):
that happens within play is agreat book out there, aptly
titled Play by Dr. Stuart Brown,and there's eight attributes of
the play one of the keyattributes is a diminished
consciousness of self. When weare in a playful state, and
we're playing, we don'tnecessarily think about
ourselves in the moment, right?
We're not necessarily playing. Iwant to say playing politics
(14:19):
with ourselves like okay, whatdo I say this? How will I look?
Or how will this go? And noteveryone's always like that many
people. You're constantly awareof how you are viewed in the
setting. And I'm not saying thatgoes away 100%. But it's greatly
reduced.
Tara Thurber (14:34):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (14:34):
You start to see really interesting things
happen. You start to seecommonalities come up. I did a
session in Northern Californiawhere I think 8 out of 32 people
had a hobby of growing citrus.
Where did that come from?
Tara Thurber (14:49):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (14:49):
So these folks all we're gonna connect
and start sharing and swappingstories, right? That's a
connection that didn't existbefore.
Tara Thurber (14:56):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (14:56):
Another group had all a five or six people had
all adopted dogs within the pastyear. So you see these unique
pieces of information come up.
But you also see individuals whomaybe aren't normally
comfortable in the group dynamicsituations. These are
potentially more of the folksthat introverted type or
possibly even neurodivergent.
Tara Thurber (15:18):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (15:19):
Come out and build and share these stories.
And you see the entire room,their jaws kind of dropped me
like, I never knew that aboutyou.
Tara Thurber (15:25):
Yeah (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (15:26):
This person composes symphonies on their off
time, or they build video gamesfor fun. And again, these folks
are sharing usually, super deep,they're sharing information that
they maybe didn't have a vehicleto share before. And this
creates this connection anddepth dimension. And I think
especially now, especially withremote teams, that's extremely
(15:48):
important, right, because those,that's where I think a lot of
that watercooler talk or thosecasual conversations that have
gone away, that doesn't occur.
And we need to know that depthand that dimension with each
other because that's what'sgoing to happen when we need to
ask for help on a project. Andwe feel more comfortable doing
that, because Tara knows who Iam as a person, not just as a co
worker, when conflict arisesthat we need to figure out a way
(16:09):
to work through that we're goingto have empathy for each other
because we understand a littlebit again, about who we are as
people, not just thistransactional coworker, state.
And I think companies know that,they understand that
relationships are important. Butit's hard to like you can't
force people to haverelationships that we're gonna
do is have events like this,where you give people the
(16:30):
opportunity to connect, to shareabout themselves. And then that
way, familiarity grows. And sowhen there is opportunity to
help one another, or tocollaborate or to get through
conflict, it becomes easier andmore enjoyable. When you have
those those relationships built.
Tara Thurber (16:45):
I love all of this, and my brain keeps going
and going. And I think youactually posted something around
empathy recently, that caught myeye because empathy is where it
begins, from the top down, ifyou can show empathy, that's
where there is room to grow,there's room to become more
connected, there's room to havethat camaraderie. Because
(17:09):
everybody's hybrid or fullyremote. It's not the this work
life balance anymore. It's ablend. And if you don't know
anything about the people thatyou're working with, on that
personal level, how can youreally connect with them on that
professional level? Aand be ableto work together be able to
(17:30):
understand one another'scommunication style or one
another's problem solving style.
So by opening up the doors likethis, I just find it phenomenal.
And I think about play, andyou're right, almost part of
that ego disappears when you'replaying because you're not
worried about what you look likeor what you're saying or how
(17:51):
you're doing something becauseyou're just being in the flow.
Brandon Wetzstein (17:57):
Exactly, perfectly stated. Like, it's all
about that flow state andgetting in. And yeah, you just
you lose track of time. Right?
That's the coolest part aboutflow and having that diminished
consciousness of self, you'rejust fully immersed in the
activity. And you don't havetime to think about right, and
you don't want to but eitherway, you're you're immersed in
this activity. Yeah. And wecould talk a whole nother hour
(18:21):
about just the benefits of playin general.
Tara Thurber (18:24):
(laughs) We go up and he's more play during the
day!
Brandon Wetzstein (18:28):
We do! It happens when we hit, we hit that
like middle like that teenageyears, where suddenly we're
trying to distance ourselvesfrom that child, us and we're
trying to become adult us. Andwe throw play on the pile and
many people don't pick it backup again. And we do what it's
not always enjoyable. But wegrow, we learn, we connect, we
(18:50):
were able to do so many amazingthings when we play, it's just
it's almost like a superfood ofactivities that people have.
Tara Thurber (18:59):
I love it. I love it. And for the stuff that
you're doing the sessions thatyou do, you can do them in
person and remote for differentteams. Right?
Brandon Wetzstein (19:08):
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll always be
the first person to say inperson is always the best.
Tara Thurber (19:12):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:13):
But when you're not able to do that. Yes,
remote absolutely works. Becausewe have this powerful medium now
where we can have video and holdup models and ship out Lego
kits. Because again, it comesback to the stories, right?
Tara Thurber (19:26):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:26):
It's all the stories that are told, it's
about the opinions. It's aboutthe thoughts and the knowledge
Tara Thurber (19:28):
It's like the feel good vibrations can come out
that are shared. And thatabsolutely comes through
virtually, without a doubt.
when you play whether it'svirtual or in person still.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Tara Thurber (19:43):
I love it.
Brandon. I love everything aboutthis. And I have to ask, since
Legos remind us of ourchildhood, can you share your
first or an important childhoodmemory you have?
Brandon Wetzstein (19:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, one pops mine.
That is just I don't know whyit's so salient. But I remember
playing with a neighbor friendwho lived across the street. And
I remember playing it, they hada tree. And it was one of those
trees that had like a perfect,large branch that was just big
enough to crawl up on and siton, you know, I think we're
(20:19):
probably somewhere in that,like, five, six range, right?
Tara Thurber (20:23):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (20:23):
Somewhere around that age. And I remember
playing drive thru, and drivethru, it was just like, no, we
were just pretending like weworked at McDonald's or the
bank, right? This was datingmyself here, this is in the 80s,
where like, everything was likedrive throughs were the coolest
thing you can just stay in yourcar!
Tara Thurber (20:41):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (20:41):
So as kids, we were playing drive thru. And
I think one of the reasons thisis a salient one is I just
really remember sitting on theedge of that branch taking
orders out of a window, for somereason.
Tara Thurber (20:51):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (20:52):
But then to think about what that means as
someone who like has beenstudying play more and more,
it's such an amazing picture,like you were part of your play
was trying on a job (laughs)because that's one of the things
kids do with play and adults dois we can try things about
experimentation. Because failureis sacred play, right?
You just doit, and you have fun with it.
Tara Thurber (21:12):
Yep.
And maybe I don't know, right?
Maybe you don't have an angrycustomer or a bad boss, when
you're playing in that scenario.
Brandon Wetzstein (21:21):
llows you to try things and experiment. And A
Tara Thurber (21:21):
(laughs) that's that was the first memory
that popped in my head. You'relike, yeah, I never did end up
working in a drive thru thatdidn't happen yet. I don't know.
I guess it's probably maybe inretirement. But yeah, it was
just a really fun memory.
I love it. I loveeverything about this. And, you
know, I have to say, we are abig Lego family. And the amount
(21:45):
of play that takes place aroundLegos is just phenomenal from an
adult standpoint, all the waydown to my youngest that's seven
and a half years old. I mean,we'll spend hours and hours and
it's not just the playing withLegos, but I liked what you just
said about failure too, youknow, failure doesn't really
(22:07):
exist in playing. And if itdoes, it's not frowned upon.
It's just, you just move throughit. And I love how that comes
through with just having thisconversation too, that I need
more play in my life and on adaily to realize that when
there's successes and failures,it's not what stands out. It's
(22:29):
more how do you get through it?
And how do you flow through it?
Brandon Wetzstein (22:33):
Yeah, no, I still think one of my greatest
joys of doing these events. Andcoming up on five years now of
doing doing this.
Tara Thurber (22:43):
It's so cool.
Brandon Wetzstein (22:44):
Just to see people turn into kids again.
Tara Thurber (22:47):
Yeah! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (22:47):
You see it.
You see it on their face. I justdid a session with a bunch of
professionals in partnershipwith with SHRM, and we were
talking about work, right. Itwas engagement and retention.
Employeeexperience. But we did it with
Tara Thurber (23:00):
Yep.
Legos. And people were justlike, it's been years since I've
played with LEGO the smile ontheir face when they crack them
open. And it's not their kidsLegos that they have to put away
like.
Right! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (23:10):
At least for right now. These are mine, and I
get to play with them. And I'mgoing to build stuff.
Tara Thurber (23:14):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (23:14):
You just you see a different level of person
that you just don't always getto see. And it's really
refreshing and invigorating.
Tara Thurber (23:23):
I love it so much.
So let's share with theaudience. What are your Top5
Reasons Legos can Help BuildBetter Teams?
Brandon Wetzstein (23:33):
Yes, so some of these will be I think I've
covered many of these in ourtalk already. But I think number
one, diminished consciousness ofself. It gets you out of your
(24:02):
brain watching you thinkingabout how you is being looked at
a judged and just jump in andgo. It's just so much more
(24:23):
enjoyable. Number two, I'm gonnasay this, I'm gonna call it
Tara Thurber (24:26):
Yes.
Brandon Wetzstein (24:27):
Again, nothing massive right within 90
seconds, but everyone shares andthat's extremely important
because more often than not, weactually don't disagree that
inverted persuasion, right?
Let's stop trying to sell ourmuch. If you ask a team what
good communication looks likeand you get an answer from 10
people there's going to beideas and shift the energy
towards how do I describe itnuances important to understand
that no one's but there'snothing very likely to come up
that someone will be like No, Idisagree with that. Oh, you're
(24:50):
all fine. Like I kind of agree.
better? How do I make it better?
So it's really taking thatBut everyone
gets to share. Number fourcurious listening. This one I
still find it amazing becausewhen you don't know what
someone's going to build, orwhat they're going to share, you
actually really aren't curiouspersuasive element in normal
conversations and shifting itwhen you when there's a little
weird looking LEGO model.
And they didsomething odd with the flag or a
figure. Instead of listening.
And I think all too often again,right, we're listening with a
(25:13):
lot of times we were, peopletowards creativity. And how do I
make this unique thing come towill wait their turn to talk,
right? They're not necessarilythere, they're pre loading the
next thing or they're thinkingabout how they're going to
respond to the next question.
life? So other people understandit? Number three, equitable
They're not present. But again,you know that you're going to
share your model and your story.
And I'm going to listen and becurious about what everyone else
shares as well. And then last,but not least, it's the time
(25:35):
compression, the magical partexpression. This is everyone
builds, everyone shares. There'swhere somehow a ton of
information is shared a veryshort period of time, 90 seconds
to share model 30 to 90 seconds,like the amount of insight
shared in such a short period ofno sitting out in the corner the
extroverts got to bring it downtime. And that's because of all
those things I just listed, right?
Because we'renot worried about ourselves
actually listening. Or, youknow, we're not trying to
persuade, we're just sharing ourpoint of view. And then when we
(25:57):
a notch the introverts that getto kick it up a notch.
get to the end, we go, Oh, we'reall actually not that far apart.
Here's the 8 or 9 or 10 thingswe all agree upon. Cool, let's
go. So it's just it's it's justmagic, at least in my view,
without a doubt.
Tara Thurber (26:08):
I love it, Brandon. It's so awesome. And it
just seems like it's extreme,playful engagement to create a
professional camaraderie betweeneverybody and I just, I love
what you're doing. I lovelearning more. And the fact that
it's all wrapped around Legosjust makes it even so much more
cooler.
Brandon Wetzstein (26:28):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Tara. Thankyou for having me on today. This
has been fantastic.
Tara Thurber (26:33):
Absolutely.
Brandon, thank you for takingtime out of your busy schedule
to meet with us. And again, wewill share all of your
information. For those of youout there that want to play with
some Legos and get some teambuilding going. Brandon again,
thank you so much.
Brandon Wetzstein (26:50):
Thank you so much there
Tara Thurber (26:53):
We are DefinedTalent at DefineLogic
service coming to you at Top5Make it a great day.
Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to
you by DefinedTalent. We are aresults driven service working
with clients to connect themwith quality talent as well as
working to make an impact withinthe recruiting industry. We talk
straight about today'sprofessional world with real
world professionals, experts inrecruitment, job seekers and
business owners alike. Have aquestion for us? Send it in and
(00:29):
you might spur our nextconversation. I'm Tara Thurber,
co founder and director oftalent partnerships here at
DefinedTalent. And joining metoday is Brandon Wetzstein,
founder and chief team builderat IN8 Create. Hey, Brandon, how
are you today?
All right, fantastic. Happy tobe here.
Tara Thurber (00:50):
Awesome. I just want to dive right in. Because I
want to get to the meat andpotatoes of this. But tell us a
little bit about yourself andwhy you started IN8 Create.
Brandon Wetzstein (01:01):
Absolutely. I spent most of my career working
in big corporations, Fortune 500large companies and one of the
most common challenges I foundis I constantly worked with
smart, intelligent, inspiringpeople, as individuals. And yet
when we got together as groupsand teams that intelligence
(01:25):
never seem to fully cometogether, right? And in teams as
we work together, there's somuch to be had, there's so much
benefit to how we collaborate,how we work together yet, I
think general group dynamicssometimes makes it really hard
to do that effectively andconstantly was walking out of
meetings going like, Well, thatdidn't go as well as we thought
it should (laughs).
Tara Thurber (01:44):
Right! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (01:44):
I know, I'm not the only one who's had that
Inkling. And so I started in acreate. And I named my
organization IN8 Create, becauseI believe that we have so much
more to offer so much more tooffer so much more to give,
whether it's ideas, insights,knowledge. And I just know with
the right tools with the rightmethods that we can be better
(02:07):
together. And that's what I'mhoping to do more of right help
teams be better together.
Tara Thurber (02:12):
I love that so much, Brandon and it's going on
a lot out there where you know,coming together as teams, and
doing things together andbuilding that culture together.
You get to learn more about eachother. And there's different
ways that people communicate,there's different ways that
people problem solve. And bycoming together and learning
(02:33):
those ways how other people areI feel that teams can even come
closer together.
Brandon Wetzstein (02:42):
Absolutely.
And you know, especially nowwhen there's we're in this like
just this weird space, right?
We're now we've got, there's ahandful of people are back in
the office. And most of them arenot that happy about it.
Tara Thurber (02:54):
Yep.
Brandon Wetzstein (02:54):
And we write the hybrid folks who are a
little bit from home and alittle bit at work, and they're
still figuring out what doesthat flow look like? And how do
we truly amplify that timetogether. And then we've got the
fully remote workers, right?
Tara Thurber (03:07):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (03:07):
Which is super cool and convenient. But
there's a trade off there.
Right? And although convenienceis amazing, I mean, I work
remote, but I know that inperson connection, right is
missing them, right? Like you wedon't have true eye contact. We
don't have oxytocin floodingthrough our veins, because we
haven't seen each otherphysically. So how do we, again,
how do we utilize various toolsor methods to get people to
(03:30):
connect to get them to workbetter together? And and that's
why I love what I do. And it isa blast and and I do it with
Legos, which makes it even morefun (laughs).
Tara Thurber (03:41):
(laughs) So excited. So let me ask how do
Legos have all the toys that areout there - How do Legos promote
communication and collaborationamong team members? And what
role does this play in fosteringstronger team dynamics?
Brandon Wetzstein (03:59):
Absolutely.
Fantastic question. Because youwould think Legos are they're
just a toy, right? It's justlike, What do you mean Legos?
And Lego has been using tons ofTeam buildings over the years.
In fact, I meet peopleconstantly at conferences and
tours, they tell me about theirLego team building experience.
One of the things I'm using aunique methodology called Lego
serious play. This is notsomething I made up I wish I was
(04:20):
this mark back in the late 90s,the chairman of Lego really
wanted to find a way to injectcreativity and imagination into
strategy. And so they createdthis group that built this, they
built this method called Legoserious play. And if we were
having this conversation 20years ago, you wouldn't be
talking to Lego. They sold thisas a consulting service, they
would come in and teach yourcompany how to run these really,
(04:41):
really unique, really amazingworkshops using one of those.
Now, like it's clearly beenpretty successful (laughs).
Tara Thurber (04:52):
Just a little bit, I mean... (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (04:54):
So they don't really do consulting work
anymore, at least not thismethodology. So now anyone can
go out get their hands on thismethodology and either get
certified or read books andfigure out how to do it, which
is what I did. I was certifiedin 2019. But what I've done is
I've adapted this to reallycreate short, really immersive
and impactful sessions wherethere's a lot of insight shared
(05:17):
in a very short period of time.
And so how does this really kindof drive communication and
collaboration? People arebuilding Lego models, using
metaphor and storytelling. Sothey're not actually building
ships. They're not buildingplanes. They're building
thoughts. They're buildingstories. And so a question I
might ask would be, build amodel that tells a story about
who you are outside of work. Nowyou can answer that in whatever
(05:39):
the way you want, right? There'sno right or wrong answer. That's
one of the major keys of Legoseries play, there's no right or
wrong answer, whatever you buildis 100%. Correct. Because I'm
asking your opinion, I'm askingyour story.
And so thisreally drives communication and
Tara Thurber (05:51):
Right. Wow.
collaboration, because everyonegets a chance to build a model,
they all have the same kit ofLegos. And then everyone gets to
tell their story, right? This iswhat I built, this is what this
means. So you're really you'rehearing everyone at the table,
everyone gets a voice. And themodel also makes it so it
compresses information a littlebit. So most people can tell
(06:13):
their story in 90 seconds orless, which is kind of amazing,
because I don't think mostpeople can't tell a story in 90 seconds.
Wow (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (06:21):
But the model holds a lot of the
communication.
Tara Thurber (06:24):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (06:24):
What did that other person build? So it just
Tara Thurber (06:24):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (06:24):
So you get a lot of information and a little
creates this playful way for usto really communicate and listen
bit of time, what that reallymeans is you also get to listen
to everyone, right? look at thisweird little model that you
built. And you look at mine, I'mcurious, what did Tara build?
to each other. And that reallyhelps drive that connection. And
(06:47):
really the collaboration becausewe're all listening to each
other.
Tara Thurber (06:49):
Yeah, I love that.
And I think communication iskey. Especially when you're in a
team setting. You know, I thinka lot of people will go into a
team setting or a meeting andeverybody's off, you know,
everybody has their own world,everybody has their own things
that are going on. And so to beable to come together and listen
and learn. You all become one,essentially, on this team as you
(07:17):
go through this processtogether. Seems so awesome.
Brandon Wetzstein (07:23):
Thank you.
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it'samazing to see how it just, it
really, completely removes ournormal environment.
That's whatabout the things that always
Tara Thurber (07:33):
Yeah.
bothered me, right? doingworkshops, and my previous
lives, like, we always need likea facilitated methodology to get
us out of that normal, like,let's all just sit in a room and
talk because there's a reasonthat doesn't work that well,
right?
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (07:47):
We can't do it can't worship everything.
Tara Thurber (07:50):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (07:50):
But there's a time where you're like, Okay,
no, like, we really need to likethink, you know, be thorough
with our thoughts and make sureeveryone gets a voice. And when
we do that, that's when we walkaway with a solution where
you're going, yeah, yeah, thismakes sense. Like we did the
work. We did the hard work tocome up with the solution that
we needed. And that's, I thinkthis Lego method really just
makes it much easier to do thatis it takes away the group
(08:12):
dynamic stuff that generallygets in our way.
Tara Thurber (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So in what ways would you sayusing Legos in team building
activities can enhance problemsolving skills, also facilitate
creativity and innovation withinteams? In a group setting.
Brandon Wetzstein (08:32):
Yeah, absolutely. And, going back to
the method itself is a couplethings going on. One is, we're
in a playful setting. And thisis a very important delineation
to make. Whereas some might kindof kind of go, Oh, it's just
play, and maybe toss that aside.
This is actually what you want,right? When you think about
(08:53):
creativity and imagination andgetting better ideas getting
outside of your own way. Play isactually the place you want to
be think about it right? When wegrow up. We look at kids play as
a way where we expand our minds,right? We're no ideas are bad
ideas. The best brainstorms outthere are built around quantity
of ideas, you want volume, youdon't want to judge things and
(09:14):
push down people's ideas orthoughts. So this playful,
imaginative state is where youwant people to be. And when you
give them a bunch of Lego bricksand say, like, go nuts, right?
Tara Thurber (09:26):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (09:26):
Have some fun with this. What also really
happens is people pour theirenergy into that. And this is
one of the things I found too,where instead in a group
setting, right, especially whenwe're looking at ideating,
trying to problem solve, we are,for good reason, we are
persuasive creatures. We'retrying to write show we're
(09:49):
trying to prove our place in thegroup. We're doing more than
just solving where there's awhole lot of ego and positioning
and things going on, right?
Tara Thurber (09:55):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (09:56):
That get in the way or or maybe you're the
introvert who doesn't speak butbecause you're making that
confident to, you know, tell theextrovert who hasn't stopped
talking to the last night we'relike.
Tara Thurber (10:04):
Yep (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (10:05):
But then now, instead of being that persuasive
person, like, how do I show upas the smart person? How do I
show up as like - how do I getmy idea to be the best? That
energy is now really pushedinto? How do we make a really
creative and compelling model?
And now you're starting to thinkabout what is a great answer to
this question? And so I think ofsome of the interesting
(10:28):
questions I've asked in variousworkshops, like around
communication, like, what isworld class communication look
like? What does that teach you?
Okay, well, here you go. No, ofcourse, no, I don't give people
a half hour build with Legos,and maybe three, maybe five
minutes, oh, your brain isworking in a completely
(10:48):
different way than it normallywould. In fact, when we're, when
we're verbally speaking, we'reusually only accessing our
prefrontal cortex.
Tara Thurber (10:55):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (10:56):
When we're working with our hands, we're
actually accessing many moreparts of our brain that aren't
normally lit up in regularconversations. So you're
actually getting more of yourknowledge access, you're hitting
more parts of your brain, you'relighting up more neural
networks, which can spark newideas and different thoughts.
Also, you're building it out of3D, and Lego bricks, right? It's
(11:17):
something you can physicallysee. And so you can constantly
play and manipulate your modelagain, within the time
constraints given.
But you getto see your idea. And that's
Tara Thurber (11:24):
Right.
kind of amazing, right? Andsaying it's one thing and
writing it down is another butsomething, you build this model,
and then you start to get moreideas, as you build it, as you
expand on it. And you can playwith it, you can flip it around,
you can also be a little bitless attached to it, though,
which is, I think, is alsoimportant when it comes to
ideas. Because a lot of timeswhen we think of in the
(11:46):
innovation space, like we loveour ideas, there are bands, we
came up with them.
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (11:50):
Suddenly, this thing is external to us.
Now it's a little bit easiermaybe to look at it, as upside
of us, it's a little bit easierto share it and maybe see that
it is a cool idea. But now Ijust saw eight other ideas
around the table. And I can seehow they're similar in some ways
to others. So this is reallywhere I think it comes into
problem solving, innovation,creativity, it's taking just
(12:11):
that normal way we do thingsthat completely flipping it from
externalizing it, making it 3D,allowing you to see everyone
else, but also putting a littlebit of time pressure on it. So
you can't sit all day, right?
But also play like make it fun,make it creative, go for unique.
Tara Thurber (12:27):
Right. Well, and I think that that's super
interesting, too, because it, italmost breaks down some walls
for individuals. And I thinkthat that can be really huge in
a team setting. Because you'reall on the same playing field at
that point, with the use ofwhat's been put in front of you,
(12:48):
and you all get to then createsomething out of really nothing
to bring it to the table. Soeverybody gets to do it at the
same time within the same timeconstraints. And it kind of
blossoms, the new ideas or thecamaraderie and this kind of
(13:09):
goes into my next question inregards to how can the tactile
nature of Lego constructioncontribute to not only this
communication and creativity andinnovation, but how does it
contribute to the teams withbuilding trust and camaraderie
around the team members? And howdoes that translate to improve
(13:32):
performance in a professionalsetting, too?
Brandon Wetzstein (13:36):
Yeah, great question. I think, for me, a lot
of it is the information thatcomes out in these sessions.
Again, the Lego it is supercool. But at the end of the day,
right? It's a method, it's amethod to get at information.
And like you just said itperfectly. It breaks down walls
and barriers that are normallythere. And the one of the things
(13:58):
that happens within play is agreat book out there, aptly
titled Play by Dr. Stuart Brown,and there's eight attributes of
the play one of the keyattributes is a diminished
consciousness of self. When weare in a playful state, and
we're playing, we don'tnecessarily think about
ourselves in the moment, right?
We're not necessarily playing. Iwant to say playing politics
(14:19):
with ourselves like okay, whatdo I say this? How will I look?
Or how will this go? And noteveryone's always like that many
people. You're constantly awareof how you are viewed in the
setting. And I'm not saying thatgoes away 100%. But it's greatly
reduced.
Tara Thurber (14:34):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (14:34):
You start to see really interesting things
happen. You start to seecommonalities come up. I did a
session in Northern Californiawhere I think 8 out of 32 people
had a hobby of growing citrus.
Where did that come from?
Tara Thurber (14:49):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (14:49):
So these folks all we're gonna connect
and start sharing and swappingstories, right? That's a
connection that didn't existbefore.
Tara Thurber (14:56):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (14:56):
Another group had all a five or six people had
all adopted dogs within the pastyear. So you see these unique
pieces of information come up.
But you also see individuals whomaybe aren't normally
comfortable in the group dynamicsituations. These are
potentially more of the folksthat introverted type or
possibly even neurodivergent.
Tara Thurber (15:18):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (15:19):
Come out and build and share these stories.
And you see the entire room,their jaws kind of dropped me
like, I never knew that aboutyou.
Tara Thurber (15:25):
Yeah (laughs).
Brandon Wetzstein (15:26):
This person composes symphonies on their off
time, or they build video gamesfor fun. And again, these folks
are sharing usually, super deep,they're sharing information that
they maybe didn't have a vehicleto share before. And this
creates this connection anddepth dimension. And I think
especially now, especially withremote teams, that's extremely
(15:48):
important, right, because those,that's where I think a lot of
that watercooler talk or thosecasual conversations that have
gone away, that doesn't occur.
And we need to know that depthand that dimension with each
other because that's what'sgoing to happen when we need to
ask for help on a project. Andwe feel more comfortable doing
that, because Tara knows who Iam as a person, not just as a co
worker, when conflict arisesthat we need to figure out a way
(16:09):
to work through that we're goingto have empathy for each other
because we understand a littlebit again, about who we are as
people, not just thistransactional coworker, state.
And I think companies know that,they understand that
relationships are important. Butit's hard to like you can't
force people to haverelationships that we're gonna
do is have events like this,where you give people the
(16:30):
opportunity to connect, to shareabout themselves. And then that
way, familiarity grows. And sowhen there is opportunity to
help one another, or tocollaborate or to get through
conflict, it becomes easier andmore enjoyable. When you have
those those relationships built.
Tara Thurber (16:45):
I love all of this, and my brain keeps going
and going. And I think youactually posted something around
empathy recently, that caught myeye because empathy is where it
begins, from the top down, ifyou can show empathy, that's
where there is room to grow,there's room to become more
connected, there's room to havethat camaraderie. Because
(17:09):
everybody's hybrid or fullyremote. It's not the this work
life balance anymore. It's ablend. And if you don't know
anything about the people thatyou're working with, on that
personal level, how can youreally connect with them on that
professional level? Aand be ableto work together be able to
(17:30):
understand one another'scommunication style or one
another's problem solving style.
So by opening up the doors likethis, I just find it phenomenal.
And I think about play, andyou're right, almost part of
that ego disappears when you'replaying because you're not
worried about what you look likeor what you're saying or how
(17:51):
you're doing something becauseyou're just being in the flow.
Brandon Wetzstein (17:57):
Exactly, perfectly stated. Like, it's all
about that flow state andgetting in. And yeah, you just
you lose track of time. Right?
That's the coolest part aboutflow and having that diminished
consciousness of self, you'rejust fully immersed in the
activity. And you don't havetime to think about right, and
you don't want to but eitherway, you're you're immersed in
this activity. Yeah. And wecould talk a whole nother hour
(18:21):
about just the benefits of playin general.
Tara Thurber (18:24):
(laughs) We go up and he's more play during the
day!
Brandon Wetzstein (18:28):
We do! It happens when we hit, we hit that
like middle like that teenageyears, where suddenly we're
trying to distance ourselvesfrom that child, us and we're
trying to become adult us. Andwe throw play on the pile and
many people don't pick it backup again. And we do what it's
not always enjoyable. But wegrow, we learn, we connect, we
(18:50):
were able to do so many amazingthings when we play, it's just
it's almost like a superfood ofactivities that people have.
Tara Thurber (18:59):
I love it. I love it. And for the stuff that
you're doing the sessions thatyou do, you can do them in
person and remote for differentteams. Right?
Brandon Wetzstein (19:08):
Yeah, absolutely. And I'll always be
the first person to say inperson is always the best.
Tara Thurber (19:12):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:13):
But when you're not able to do that. Yes,
remote absolutely works. Becausewe have this powerful medium now
where we can have video and holdup models and ship out Lego
kits. Because again, it comesback to the stories, right?
Tara Thurber (19:26):
Right.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:26):
It's all the stories that are told, it's
about the opinions. It's aboutthe thoughts and the knowledge
Tara Thurber (19:28):
It's like the feel good vibrations can come out
that are shared. And thatabsolutely comes through
virtually, without a doubt.
when you play whether it'svirtual or in person still.
Brandon Wetzstein (19:42):
Yeah, exactly.
Tara Thurber (19:43):
I love it.
Brandon. I love everything aboutthis. And I have to ask, since
Legos remind us of ourchildhood, can you share your
first or an important childhoodmemory you have?
Brandon Wetzstein (19:57):
Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, one pops mine.
That is just I don't know whyit's so salient. But I remember
playing with a neighbor friendwho lived across the street. And
I remember playing it, they hada tree. And it was one of those
trees that had like a perfect,large branch that was just big
enough to crawl up on and siton, you know, I think we're
(20:19):
probably somewhere in that,like, five, six range, right?
Tara Thurber (20:23):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (20:23):
Somewhere around that age. And I remember
playing drive thru, and drivethru, it was just like, no, we
were just pretending like weworked at McDonald's or the
bank, right? This was datingmyself here, this is in the 80s,
where like, everything was likedrive throughs were the coolest
thing you can just stay in yourcar!
Tara Thurber (20:41):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (20:41):
So as kids, we were playing drive thru. And
I think one of the reasons thisis a salient one is I just
really remember sitting on theedge of that branch taking
orders out of a window, for somereason.
Tara Thurber (20:51):
(laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (20:52):
But then to think about what that means as
someone who like has beenstudying play more and more,
it's such an amazing picture,like you were part of your play
was trying on a job (laughs)because that's one of the things
kids do with play and adults dois we can try things about
experimentation. Because failureis sacred play, right?
You just doit, and you have fun with it.
Tara Thurber (21:12):
Yep.
And maybe I don't know, right?
Maybe you don't have an angrycustomer or a bad boss, when
you're playing in that scenario.
Brandon Wetzstein (21:21):
llows you to try things and experiment. And A
Tara Thurber (21:21):
(laughs) that's that was the first memory
that popped in my head. You'relike, yeah, I never did end up
working in a drive thru thatdidn't happen yet. I don't know.
I guess it's probably maybe inretirement. But yeah, it was
just a really fun memory.
I love it. I loveeverything about this. And, you
know, I have to say, we are abig Lego family. And the amount
(21:45):
of play that takes place aroundLegos is just phenomenal from an
adult standpoint, all the waydown to my youngest that's seven
and a half years old. I mean,we'll spend hours and hours and
it's not just the playing withLegos, but I liked what you just
said about failure too, youknow, failure doesn't really
(22:07):
exist in playing. And if itdoes, it's not frowned upon.
It's just, you just move throughit. And I love how that comes
through with just having thisconversation too, that I need
more play in my life and on adaily to realize that when
there's successes and failures,it's not what stands out. It's
(22:29):
more how do you get through it?
And how do you flow through it?
Brandon Wetzstein (22:33):
Yeah, no, I still think one of my greatest
joys of doing these events. Andcoming up on five years now of
doing doing this.
Tara Thurber (22:43):
It's so cool.
Brandon Wetzstein (22:44):
Just to see people turn into kids again.
Tara Thurber (22:47):
Yeah! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (22:47):
You see it.
You see it on their face. I justdid a session with a bunch of
professionals in partnershipwith with SHRM, and we were
talking about work, right. Itwas engagement and retention.
Employeeexperience. But we did it with
Tara Thurber (23:00):
Yep.
Legos. And people were justlike, it's been years since I've
played with LEGO the smile ontheir face when they crack them
open. And it's not their kidsLegos that they have to put away
like.
Right! (laughs)
Brandon Wetzstein (23:10):
At least for right now. These are mine, and I
get to play with them. And I'mgoing to build stuff.
Tara Thurber (23:14):
Yeah.
Brandon Wetzstein (23:14):
You just you see a different level of person
that you just don't always getto see. And it's really
refreshing and invigorating.
Tara Thurber (23:23):
I love it so much.
So let's share with theaudience. What are your Top5
Reasons Legos can Help BuildBetter Teams?
Brandon Wetzstein (23:33):
Yes, so some of these will be I think I've
covered many of these in ourtalk already. But I think number
one, diminished consciousness ofself. It gets you out of your
(24:02):
brain watching you thinkingabout how you is being looked at
a judged and just jump in andgo. It's just so much more
(24:23):
enjoyable. Number two, I'm gonnasay this, I'm gonna call it
Tara Thurber (24:26):
Yes.
Brandon Wetzstein (24:27):
Again, nothing massive right within 90
seconds, but everyone shares andthat's extremely important
because more often than not, weactually don't disagree that
inverted persuasion, right?
Let's stop trying to sell ourmuch. If you ask a team what
good communication looks likeand you get an answer from 10
people there's going to beideas and shift the energy
towards how do I describe itnuances important to understand
that no one's but there'snothing very likely to come up
that someone will be like No, Idisagree with that. Oh, you're
(24:50):
all fine. Like I kind of agree.
better? How do I make it better?
So it's really taking thatBut everyone
gets to share. Number fourcurious listening. This one I
still find it amazing becausewhen you don't know what
someone's going to build, orwhat they're going to share, you
actually really aren't curiouspersuasive element in normal
conversations and shifting itwhen you when there's a little
weird looking LEGO model.
And they didsomething odd with the flag or a
figure. Instead of listening.
And I think all too often again,right, we're listening with a
(25:13):
lot of times we were, peopletowards creativity. And how do I
make this unique thing come towill wait their turn to talk,
right? They're not necessarilythere, they're pre loading the
next thing or they're thinkingabout how they're going to
respond to the next question.
life? So other people understandit? Number three, equitable
They're not present. But again,you know that you're going to
share your model and your story.
And I'm going to listen and becurious about what everyone else
shares as well. And then last,but not least, it's the time
(25:35):
compression, the magical partexpression. This is everyone
builds, everyone shares. There'swhere somehow a ton of
information is shared a veryshort period of time, 90 seconds
to share model 30 to 90 seconds,like the amount of insight
shared in such a short period ofno sitting out in the corner the
extroverts got to bring it downtime. And that's because of all
those things I just listed, right?
Because we'renot worried about ourselves
actually listening. Or, youknow, we're not trying to
persuade, we're just sharing ourpoint of view. And then when we
(25:57):
a notch the introverts that getto kick it up a notch.
get to the end, we go, Oh, we'reall actually not that far apart.
Here's the 8 or 9 or 10 thingswe all agree upon. Cool, let's
go. So it's just it's it's justmagic, at least in my view,
without a doubt.
Tara Thurber (26:08):
I love it, Brandon. It's so awesome. And it
just seems like it's extreme,playful engagement to create a
professional camaraderie betweeneverybody and I just, I love
what you're doing. I lovelearning more. And the fact that
it's all wrapped around Legosjust makes it even so much more
cooler.
Brandon Wetzstein (26:28):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, Tara. Thankyou for having me on today. This
has been fantastic.
Tara Thurber (26:33):
Absolutely.
Brandon, thank you for takingtime out of your busy schedule
to meet with us. And again, wewill share all of your
information. For those of youout there that want to play with
some Legos and get some teambuilding going. Brandon again,
thank you so much.
Brandon Wetzstein (26:50):
Thank you so much there
Tara Thurber (26:53):
We are DefinedTalent at DefineLogic
service coming to you at Top5Make it a great day.
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