Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2026 - Live from Miami - Travel Trends with Dan Christian

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_10 (00:05):
Hello everyone and welcome to a live production of
Travel Trends here in Miami,Florida.
We are in South Beach at theMiami Convention Center for
Aviation Festival of theAmericas, AFA as it's known.
We participated last year forthe first time, and they were
kind enough to invite us back.
We have an amazing booth rightas you walk into the conference.

(00:28):
And you can definitely check outpictures on social media on our
Instagram, LinkedIn, and YouTubeat Travel Trends Podcast.
And in this event spotlight, wehave brought together some of
the most impressive executivesthat are here for the
conference, as well as managers,specialists, and whether they're
suppliers, airlines, orairports.

(00:48):
What we wanted to do with thisepisode is showcase the amazing
people that come together forthis conference.
And to start, I've actuallywanted to introduce a special
guest from OneWorld.
Oneworld is one of the bigsponsors here for the event.
That's not the reason that I'mleading off with them.
It's uh it's actually becausethe gentleman sitting in front
of me, Guido Van Til, who is theVP of digital at OneWorld, is a

(01:13):
key part of the panel that we'redoing this afternoon.
And I had many conversationswith him before and today,
preparing for the session.
He has so much to offer in thisspace.
So I wanted to kick off thisepisode with Guido.
Welcome to Travel Trends, Guido.
Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Well, thank you very much for that introduction, Dan.
And uh really happy to be here.
It's very exciting, uh, alreadystarted today, and looking
forward to that panel later on.

SPEAKER_10 (01:38):
Well, let's tell everyone as soon as they hear
your accent, they're trying toplace where you're from.
You're like, he's not fromMiami, Florida.
And OneWorld is obviously aglobal uh alliance.
Um, but you're based inAmsterdam.
Tell us a little bit about you,your role, where you're based,
and what brought you here.

SPEAKER_00 (01:52):
So, yeah, I'm leading digital for OneWorld.
I started one year ago exactly,so 1st of June.
So one year in the job, andyeah, we can talk about you know
what what has been theachievements uh over the last
year.
Uh I have a lifetime uh of youknow working in the airline
industry uh mainly with KLM andFrance KLM.
Uh so I've done IT, I've doneground handling, I've done

(02:15):
commercial, and I've donedigital.
So um I've done all of that uhat Air France KLM, uh leaving a
couple of years ago to do uhspend some time in um uh uh
retailing, uh SaaS company onorder management and point of
sale.
And last year I sort of gotconnected with uh Nat Pieper,
the then CEO, and uh the rest isuh history.

SPEAKER_10 (02:38):
Well, I make let's make sure for any of our
listeners uh that are notfamiliar with OneWorld,
obviously we had uh one of youruh colleagues, Roger, on our
season six, fantastic episode,and we're gonna have one of your
colleagues uh Gilbert joining usuh to talk about loyalty.
Your CEO was on stage to kickoff the conference earlier
today.
Um, and so tell everyone alittle bit about One World for

(03:00):
anyone who's not familiar withthe organization.

SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Yeah, sure.
So One World is an alliance, sobasically a group of airlines uh
working together, and in thatcollaboration, they're able to
create a customer proposition uhthat will really drive you know
basically commercial benefitsfrom the the airlines, but also
from a loyalty perspective.
So this is about creating abigger network, so more choice

(03:23):
for customers.
So working together, and ofcourse, you know, airlines uh
traditionally work together alot on you know one-to-one
basis.
There's joint ventures, jointbusinesses, but you know, the
bigger part of that is then inthe in the form and shape of an
alliance.
So you have this bigger network,so then you want to make sure
that there's you know a seamlessexperience across the travel

(03:43):
journey.
You don't make sure that youknow, from a loyalty
perspective, you know, yourhigh-level tier members are
being recognized, they get theperks across the alliance
instead of just on you know thesingle uh uh member airline they
that they're a member of.
Uh and this is how we build thethe alliance together um and and
make it you know a win-win forall.

SPEAKER_10 (04:05):
Well, let's talk about the conference and then
get into our panel as well,because OneWorld has chosen to
be the headline sponsor of theevent.
And so tell us a little bit whyOneWorld chose to become such an
important partner for AFA herein the US this year.

SPEAKER_00 (04:20):
I think the main drive for us is is is to
connect, to be connected, youknow, with the travel industry,
uh, you know, fellow airlines,uh airports, uh vendors, uh uh
typically.
So, you know, we believe thatyou know, by like being open and
out there and talk to eachother, you know, we're able to
sort of uh you know make travelindustry better for customers.

(04:44):
And that's you know, being hereuh we believe will help us
achieve that.

SPEAKER_10 (04:48):
That's great.
I mean we had a terrificexperience here last year for
the first year at AFA.
And I know, of course, ourlisteners are very familiar with
the global conference thathappens in Lisbon and in Asia,
and this is a conference that'scontinuing to grow.
I mean, the venue isextraordinary, it's both the uh
the convention center itself andthe location in South Beach.
Um so this year coming back,obviously I was a little bit

(05:10):
more familiar, and the venuethis year I think is actually
even better layout and thestructure of the way that it's
flowing.
Uh for those of you who are herejoining us, obviously you would
have experienced this as well.
But for those of you listeningor considering attending next
year, I really like what the orthe AFA has done this year to
set up the main stage at theback and keep everything in one

(05:31):
room and then have some of thebreakout sessions, which is
where we're gonna be thisafternoon.
And there's multiple thingshappening on main stage and side
stage.
And as some of our listenersknow and would have seen on
social media, my son is here.
Guido got a chance to meet myson, an aspiring pilot.
So he is buzzing and going toall the sessions and learning as
much as possible about theaviation industry that he's
gonna be a part of for hiscareer.

(05:52):
Uh, but let's talk about ourpanel.
I mean, we're gonna have uhPreston Peterson, the managing
director of Customer Experience,Operations Innovation at
American Airlines joining us forthat discussion.
We're gonna have ChristinaGrimsley, who is the head of
travel and hospitality and agentstrategist at Sierra AI.
Christina will be on thisepisode as well.
But uh this afternoon, we'regonna be on stage talking about

(06:16):
supercharging the digitalexperience in the age of AI.
And Guido and I had a call lastweek on Friday to prepare for
the session, and this is againwhy I wanted to lead off the
episode with him, is becausethere was so much that you were
keen to share given yourbackground in digital, where the
industry is, where it's headed,especially in the age of AI.
So, would you share for ourlisteners that are not going to

(06:37):
have the privilege of joining uslive for that session, a little
bit about what our plans are forthe session itself and what some
of the takeaways you're hopingpeople will benefit from?

SPEAKER_00 (06:47):
To to start off, I I should talk about, you know, my
my fellow panelists.
So so, first of all, Preston,you know, American Airlines is
the leading airline uh, youknow, of One World Alliance.
Uh, and also Preston as a personis a leader driving the digital
ambition for for One World.
So I think that is really keybecause when we talk about you

(07:10):
know those teams in the traveljourney that are out there
today, you know, we need to fixthem.
And we haven't fixed them yet.
We are you know very busyalready uh doing a lot on you
know the check-in experience, uhgetting uh passport scanning uh
done, doing walletboardingpasses, but you know, we need uh
the the member airlines to todrive that.

(07:32):
And uh as one world where we areconnecting that, we're the
enabler for the alliance,creating the technology to make
that happen.
We need the airlines to actuallyimplement them.
And Preston has really been veryimportant to lead the alliance
as a whole uh and taking aleadership role from an American
airlines perspective, who isalso you know driving really on

(07:53):
customer experience and makingthat better on a day-to-day
basis.
And then Christina from Sierra,I think is really interesting
because they are the new kids onthe block, right?
I mean, uh the the the room isfull of you know agentic AI
solution uh providers out there,and and that's really what's
happening out there.
That that transformation, thethe technology drive that is out

(08:15):
there today.
Uh I have in my long, longhistory in the airline industry,
I haven't seen that much energyand drive.
So I think having thatcombination in the panel, we can
talk about you know what are theseams out there, you know, what
are we doing to fix it, but alsohow can sort of AI turbocharge
that?

SPEAKER_10 (08:34):
Yeah, and I think that's where you know where I
know we're gonna start with thepassenger.
We'll talk about innovation.
And as you mentioned, Americanbeing, you know, then for our
listeners, it's the foundingpartner in One World.
So obviously, you know, a largeglobal airline based here in the
US.
Uh you're based in Amsterdam, alot of the world team is based
in London, like Roger, ofcourse.
And so it is truly a globalorganization.

(08:57):
And the opportunity for digitalinnovation, I mean, we've been
talking about it, and you knowthis all too well, for 20 years,
and we've been talking aboutdigital transformation.
The reality is it's continuallyevolving.
You're never done with yourdigital transformation, and
especially now in the age of notonly AI, but agentic AI.
But it all comes back to thecustomer and meeting the
customer where they are.

(09:17):
And so we'll make sure that someof those takeaways, I'm going to
look to do a blog postafterwards to summarize some of
the sessions and some of thetakeaways from this discussion.
Um, but tell everyone a littlebit more about OneWorld's
approach to digitaltransformation, what you guys
are working on, what are some ofthe things that our listeners
who are flying with OneWorldglobally with the different
airlines can look forward towith some of the innovations

(09:39):
that are coming forward.

SPEAKER_00 (09:41):
So when you look at the um the travel journey, you
know, this is all about seamsand interline travel, code
share, you know, historic, youknow, uh from a historic
perspective, uh it's been outthere for 30, 40 years, and the
seams have been there from dayone.
Uh and a lot of those uh stillneed to be fixed, whether it's
about check-in, whether it'sabout baggage, whether it's

(10:02):
about seating, uh, andespecially about disruption,
right?
Because when do you really needyou know um everything to be
taken care of, and you when youreally need to be helped, that's
when things go bad.
And when you are connecting, youknow, uh from one airline to the
other, that's also when a lot oftimes, you know, uh passengers,
customers don't really knowwhere to go anymore.

(10:25):
And also in a lot of times theairlines sort of are not totally
sure.
So this is about the seams thatyou know are out there and we
are fixing them.
The concept of you know, oneworld and the digital setup that
we're creating is about a huband spokes model where we are
actually creating the enablersto connect with all the member

(10:47):
airlines individually.
So instead of all the memberairlines bilaterally having to
have and uh uh uh engage inthese connections, we do it once
with uh the member airlines andthen have it for all.
And you know, we're working onthe check-in, the wallet
boarding pass, we do passportscanning, uh, we start out on on
package tracking.

(11:07):
A lot of those initiatives areall about there, you know, what
are the dissatisfiers uh forcustomers in the customer
journey, and and you know, howcan we prioritize to to to make
that you know a better uhjourney for the customer?

SPEAKER_10 (11:22):
Well, I know certainly as being a frequent
flyer and there are three bigalliances, and so obviously one
world star alliance, and one ofthe other uh developments
obviously across the benefit iswhen you'll introduce something
that that benefits the entiregroup, the baggage being a good
example, because for me now,after having had an uh um with a

(11:42):
different airline and adifferent alliance, having a
challenging experience withbaggage last year, it's become
much more uh something that I'malways focused on to make sure
my bag has been loaded and evengetting the notification that
it's all it that it's actuallyappearing on um a specific
carousel.
Like these are the things thatare just making uh the travel
experience much more seamlessfor frequent flyers like myself.

(12:03):
And that's why I always like tohave these conversations when
I'm speaking to someone, youknow, um that is actually making
these things possible uh for thedifferent airlines, because the
advantage of being part of thegroup is that this technology
you develop can apply acrossmultiple different airlines, and
so there's a lot of complexityto the back end given the volume
of uh customers you're dealingwith, and then just the

(12:25):
complexity that's involved intravel with visas and you know
when it comes to passports andand border control.
One of the things I look forwardto one day, Guido, is being able
to arrive at the airport andjust be able to seamlessly walk
through uh both securitypassport control and board the
airplane.

(12:46):
Um, ideally with just scanningmy face, and I know biometrics
has been a big focus for a lotof the airlines.
You know, take us through whatyou hope the you know the future
of air travel can look like inthe next few years.
What are some of the otherinnovations that you're working
towards that you know we can allget excited about?

SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
When I just go one step back, because I think you
really hit the sweet spot on youknow those teams and where
airlines are really mature andcapable to solve those teams for
their own customers on their ownoperating uh aircraft, but then
they lose that that bit of youknow oversight and control when

(13:24):
customers are connecting, andthat's exactly you know the
sweet spot where where One WorldDigital comes in and and we
create solutions for that.
Um you're totally right.
You know, a lot a lot of processin today's customer journey is
very ancient.
It's you know, how do you getfrom land side to air side?
You need a boarding pass.

(13:46):
Whoever decided that, you know,a long, long, long time ago, of
course, there wasn't anysecurity way back, and now there
is and stuff like that.
But you know, in the end, you'reright.
Like you are a traveler, youneed to be recognized.
What's the way to recognize you?
You have biometric uh uh uhidentification, um, so that to
me is where we're we're we'reheading to.

(14:08):
And you know, even though as acustomer you you would like you
know personal assistance, uh butmost customers just want to be
efficient and don't want to bebothered with any human contact,
and you know, uh from gettingyou know to an airport and
actually going going on board.
And and that's you know, notonly that, like the the physical

(14:29):
journey, but also then from adigital perspective to make sure
that you know the airlines arealways fully aware where you
are, in what state you are, whatis your context, what are your
needs, and and are you knowfulfilling those needs uh
whenever they arise.

SPEAKER_10 (14:44):
Thanks for that, Guido.
Well, I've got one more specificquestion for you because clearly
I could talk to you uh and wewill be talking on the panel
later today, um, but there'slots of areas you can speak
about.
The one thing I want to ask youdirectly is about AI.
Obviously, it's a part of oursession, but it is a massive
change happening for ourindustry.
A lot of the businesses that arehere have AI incorporated, and

(15:06):
you mentioned about Sierra beinga new kid on the block, and
you're absolutely right.
There's lots of new everyone'stalking about agentic AI.
So I'd love to ask you on thisfinal question what is your
overall take on AI and how it'sbeing applied today and what the
real opportunity is for AI inthe aviation space?

SPEAKER_00 (15:22):
So I think there's two things when we talk about AI
in agency, because it is a hypeand everybody's talking about
it, and if you're not on it,then you're you're you're losing
it.
Um but to me there's two thingsuh really important.
First of all, you know, thedot-com, everybody wants a
website, you know, like 30 yearsago, you know, can we all

(15:42):
remember it?
I can.
Um, but this was really, youknow, internet was trying to
sort of have a systematicinterface for a for a human to
interact with a company, right?
And we've all been trained towork the internet.
Now that's all sort of not youknow very human-like, you know,
that way that interaction, butwe've become really good at it,

(16:05):
and user experience has been,you know, like a trait going
forward to make that happen andto make that you know as
efficient and uh powerful aspossible.
What is happening now in theworld is that we can go back to
you know what what is closest toyou know human behavior is
actually conversation.
The conversational part isreally gonna be the
transformative part that youknow we can just talk and you

(16:28):
know ask for you know what ourneeds are, what we want, make
sure that we fine-tune you knowon those needs and what the
solutions are.
So I think this is really youknow a big change to previous
you know technologybreakthroughs.
The second part is that you knowI've been in you know building
Adefact, I've been in you knowgoing uh uh client server, I've

(16:52):
you know moved on to theinternet, to APIs.
You know, I think with theagentec AI capabilities, we're
really really opening up youknow the legacy world of airline
technology, and I think that'sgot to be a real breakthrough.
Uh and also would be veryinteresting, you know, from
everybody involved in theairline industry who really sort

(17:14):
of owns, you know, uh the theconversation with the customer.
Uh I think it's a very exciting,you know, uh period um uh to to
to be part of.

SPEAKER_10 (17:24):
Yeah, well it's really interesting.
I mean, when I look at ourbackgrounds and as we've gotten
to know each other, you know, myprevious role chief digital
officer and both of us beingfocused on digital, coming up
into this business when I did itduring the dot-com era, there's
a lot of similarities.
And I, if anything, I'm morebullish and more excited about
this industry than I've everbeen for exactly the reasons
you've just described.
It's the next kind of major umquantum leap that our industry

(17:47):
is going to make.
And I'm excited for all theopportunities and the challenges
that we're coming up againsttoo.
But I want to make sure all ofour listeners can follow your
journey because clearly you'regonna be contributing to the
space in a in a major way overthe next few years.
Uh, OneWorld made the rightdecision to bring you in and and
empower you in this role.
And so for those of ourlisteners that want to be able

(18:09):
to connect with you, Guido, um,and also follow along on the
OneWorld journey, what would bethe best ways for them to do
that?

SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
Well, I think the best way is uh is to connect
with me on on LinkedIn.
Uh I'm not very active, uh Ihave to tell you all, uh, but I
will sort of uh uh respond andreply.
And I'm of course, you've youknow heard me talking, so you
know, you know what you know I'mabout, what I'm looking for.
So if you think you can help meout there and help us out there,

(18:36):
um, you know, always happy andopen for chat.

SPEAKER_10 (18:39):
Fantastic.
And that's Guido Van Til, whichis V-A-N-N-N-T-I-L.
And Guido, it's been greatgetting to know you.
I'm looking forward to oursession later today and keeping
in touch after this.
And thank you again for joiningus.

SPEAKER_00 (18:51):
Thanks a lot, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (18:54):
Our next guest is someone I've been so looking
forward to meeting since thepandemic when I became familiar
with the Time Shifter app andrecommended it to all the
executives at the TravelCorporation at the time.
I was living in LA, and right upuntil the pandemic, I was
traveling 50% of the time.
Uh, Brett, who I worked closelywith, was traveling 70% of the
time.

(19:14):
And you could certainly see theimpacts that travel has on
everyone that is doing this fora living, working as executives
in the travel industry.
We may love travel, but thereality is jet lag has a real
impact on our lives.
And I'd read these fascinatingarticles about Time Shifter, and
so I had a chance to connectwith our next guest who is the

(19:34):
co-founder of Time Shifter.
He's based in New York City,Mickey Bayer Clausen.
Thanks so much for joining us onTravel Trends here at AFA.

SPEAKER_01 (19:42):
Thank you so much, then I'm excited to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (19:44):
Well, and I'm thrilled that you're here.
I know you've gone to the otherAFA events in Lisbon.
Uh, this is your first time atthe Aviation Festival of the
Americas.
This is my second time, as ourlisteners know.
Um, but I was so delighted thatyou were going to be here
because I'm a huge fan of whatyou've built, and it goes back
to 2017.
So, I mean, nearly 10 years nowsince you built this app.
I know you guys have had morethan nearly two million

(20:05):
downloads.
And so let's go back to theorigin of Time Shifter.
Tell everyone a little bit ofwhat Time Shifter is and why you
guys created this app.

SPEAKER_01 (20:14):
Sure.
Um, number one, uh, Time Shifteris a circadian technology
company.
We'll dive into that in a littlebit.
Uh, where does it come from?
It really comes from uh our myco-founder, Dr.
Stephen Lockley, who has beendoing um clinical research in
the area of circadian scienceand sleep science uh for more

(20:34):
than 30 years, uh more than 20years on the faculty at Harvard
Medical School.
Uh and um he'd worked with uh inthe past, both with um in
connection with uh uh with uhrocket launches, uh, you know,
astronauts, mission control, aswell as the lead athletes,
Formula One, Formula Onedrivers, Formula One teams, to
apply circadian science toaddress jet lag and and also to

(20:58):
prepare for peak performancewhen uh when uh when when it's
we're talking about athletes.
And at some point, uh after havehaving built that protocol based
on real science, uh rather thanall these misconceptions that we
can also talk about in a littlebit in the area of jet lag, um,
it became clear that the rest ofthe world should be able to

(21:18):
access uh these solutions.
And uh we started Time Shifteras a as a as a company and and
then we built the app that youknow so well now with uh with
all these downloads uh to helppeople with jet lag.

SPEAKER_10 (21:31):
Well, and I think when I first discovered it, it
was featured in Fast Company.
You had so much great press, andfor all the right reasons,
because this was an app thatmany of us needed then and need
more than ever now.
And one of the things I wantedto dive into just to start the
conversation is the risks aroundjet lag and why you built this
in the first place, given thatit's based on solid scientific

(21:52):
research.
So let's let's get into thatbecause I'll give you the exact
example that I was up against,and I think many of our
listeners will identify with.
With this is that you know, Iwhen you travel half the time
for work, and I'd always psychmyself up for work trips, and
you know, my had a uh wife andyoung kids, and thankfully I
still have a wife and kids, butthey're a little older now.
Um, but I would be travelinghalf the time and so I'd be on a

(22:14):
trip living in LA.
I was flying to Sydney, then toSingapore, then to London and
back on an around the worldtrip.
And I would I would try to bethe work warrior that just said
to other people, Oh, jet lagdoesn't affect me.
I just would throw myself rightinto an over a flight flight,
walk into a meeting.
And as much as I put on a braveface, I ultimately realized it
does affect you, and it canquite negatively.

(22:35):
And a friend of ours who is a uha family physician had always
masked me when I got back andtrips, he's like, How are you
doing?
And it used to frustrate me thequestion because I'm like, I'm
fine.
He's like, but you've beentraveling a lot, like how like
how you're feeling, and I waslike, I'm fine, like like just
leave me to leave me alone.
But the reality is I wasn't finebecause I and and it's because

(22:55):
you work, you're stressed, andyou're you're flying.
And I just I didn't realize, andhe knew this, and you're
obviously an expert in this, howmuch flying actually takes an
impact on your health.
Yep.
So tell everybody a little bitabout the science, the the
research that you had done,about the negative impacts of
jet lag.

SPEAKER_01 (23:09):
I I I really love the question.
I love the question because um Ithink one misconception out
there is that jet lag is justfeeling off for a couple of days
uh after you arrive.
Um it's much more than that.
So let's define what jet lagreally is uh before we move on
to what you can do and what thescience really says about what
you can do and what does notwork.

(23:31):
Um so jet lag is is is actuallya complete disruption of all the
circadian clocks you have acrossall your major biological
systems.
It's not just about sleep, it'severy system.
Your heart, your liver, yourmetabolism, your immune
functions, your skins, yourbones, your muscles, all of
those systems have circadianclocks that tick uh 24 hours.

(23:51):
Uh the most important clock wehave is the one in our brain.
It's important for two reasons.
Number one, because it acts asthe conductor of the orchestra
of all the clocks you have inyour body.
So you if you can control theclock in the brain, you can to
some if it's to some degreeaffect the other clocks.
But also the clock in the brainis directly regulating sleep,
alertness, hormones,temperature, mood, different

(24:14):
systems.
And so when we talk about jetlag, it's not just affecting
your sleep.
It's it's disrupting everysystem in your body.
So if you take an analogy topeople working shifts, yeah,
over the course of 20, 30 yearsof working shifts, there's a
higher risk of pretty much everychronic disease cancer,
diabetes, certain certain uhwell, heart disease, all of

(24:37):
these all of these diseases cometo life in a different way
because you're continuouslydisrupting these systems.
It's very unhealthy.
So jet lag for us is number onea full, like it's a complete uh
disruption of all your systems.
The consequences of jet lag isboth human and they're
financial.
You know, you you um youobviously have some days where

(24:59):
you're not going to beperforming at your highest if
you're going for business, ifyou're going just for vacation,
you're ruining the first coupleof days where you don't really
enjoy it to the same degree youshould have.
Um but it's also about um, youknow, when you get home, uh you
might not, if you come home aFriday and you're doing chores
with the family or hanging outwith your kids, you might not be

(25:20):
available to the same extent youyou want to be.
And then you have becausecircadian is also in your immune
function, you get more sick whenyou travel because your immune
function might not support youas much as it should.
And you have when you eat food,uh, when you have jet lack, your
metabolism, your liver clock isout of whack as well.

(25:40):
And that means that your glucoseresponse will be highly
impaired, making even healthyfood unhealthy if you eat at the
wrong time when it's biologicalnight in your body.

SPEAKER_10 (25:51):
So something I want to ask you, and again, this is
from my personal experience, andI hope that's okay.
And I think it's interesting forour audience because I'm
assuming that many of ourlisteners will also find
themselves in similarsituations, especially when you
tie business travel to workexpectations, because I was
always trying to keep up with myboss who was traveling more than
me, but it was only ever homefor three months of the year.
I was home for six months of theyear.

(26:12):
And I realized I was prior likewas I was definitely looking in
the wrong direction in terms ofum uh what success looked like
as far as taking care ofyourself.
And and so one of the things Iwould say uh when people asked
me, uh, you know, does jet lagever affect you?
And my answer was I just have toexist in whatever time zone I'm
in.
So when I would arrive.

SPEAKER_01 (26:30):
But then you remember you remember 15 years
ago, we talked about sleep thesame way.

SPEAKER_10 (26:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
People were like, Yeah, uh, do you how much sleep
do you get?
I I don't get a lot, I'm I'mbusy.
Yeah.
And it was almost like a a apositive thing to say.
It was a statement.

SPEAKER_10 (26:42):
A badge of honor.
Yeah, it was.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Like uh we you know, I I'm too busy to sleep.
Yeah.
I can sleep when I'm old.

SPEAKER_10 (26:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Now now we know that Remedy's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_10 (26:50):
Sleep when I'm dead was the next thing, which is
what's gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
Um and so I I think when it comes to jet lag, which
is a circadian disruption,circadian rhythms is very poorly
understood by the public.
Almost no one has a real insightinto how important it is and
what it does to longevity, tojet lag, to shift workers in
sports, peak performance.
Circadian rhythms are anabsolutely important part of

(27:15):
your biology.
In fact, circadian rhythms existin the bacteria that created the
atmosphere, it's in plants, it'sin animals.
It's it's essential for thrivingand surviving.
You take it out of a mouse, it'sgonna die faster.
Like it's very important.
And my prediction is that infive years from now, we look
back at this podcast, a lot morepeople are gonna know what

(27:36):
circadian rhythms are and how tohandle it on a personalized
level.
It it really is uh veryimportant.

SPEAKER_10 (27:42):
Well, and this is where uh when I um what I wanted
to share with you is what wasbased on this experience and my
approach, um, is what whatwhat's was wrong about that and
what you need to do to correctcourse.
And so when I'm have thatmentality that I just need to
function in the time zone thatI'm in.
So when I land in Sydney, whenpeople say to you, first thing
you do, get out, get a goodwalk, get fresh air, get

(28:04):
sunlight, um, push yourself asmuch as through the day as
possible, uh-huh.
Um, so then you can crash thatnight and try and reset.
Right.
And people would make othersuggestions like, oh, don't
drink alcohol in the flightbecause you want to try and get
uh uh enough rest and stayhydrated.
Those would literally be therecommendations that I was kind
of thriving on, if you will.
But I think that actually waseither some of that might have

(28:25):
been uh good intentions.
So tell us what actually atraveler should be doing, and
obviously it ties back clearlyto the circadian rhythm, but if
but if those were thesuggestions that I would that
were being recommended to me,what what ultimately what would
be your recommendations totravelers on that kind of
schedule?

SPEAKER_01 (28:44):
So, number one, some of the things you did were
great, but didn't help with jetlag.
There's there's a distinctionbetween jet lag and just being
healthy.
Yeah, staying hydrated is a goodthing for you in terms of
health, but it doesn't help withjet lag.
Right.
That's a misconception.

SPEAKER_11 (28:59):
There you go, okay.

SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
The same with not drinking alcohol.
Well, you know, not drinkingalcohol help helps you sleep
better, and it might be a smartthing when you're traveling, but
it doesn't affect jet lag.
Uh so so there are some thingsthat you did that was helpful
and it was about your health.
But um everything else kind ofis not working the intended way

(29:22):
because again, we uh think mostof us, uh, and and uh for me
until I I was uh so lucky tomeet Dr.
Stephen Lockley and and learnabout the science.
Uh I I just like you, uh you trythe best you can and you listen
to people you trust, but westill struggle with jet lag.

SPEAKER_11 (29:41):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
And the reason why is because we haven't done it
right.
Now I talked about this thecircadian clock in the brain
before, and that is absolutelykey.
The circadian clock in the brainis the one we want to control
because that is the one thatregulates steep and alertness
24-7.
It's not just about steep again.
And so this clock in the brainis not really affected much by

(30:02):
food, exercise, hydration, andall the things that it's all
about light.
It's about light exposure andlight avoidance, and the right
timing of it for each traveler.
So two travelers going on thesame trip will have two
different times to prioritizebright light and two or and have
different times when they shouldavoid light.

(30:24):
And the problem with that isthat it's it's not intuitive
when to do it.
If if it was, again, it would beeasier to give you like three
tips right now.
The reason why we created an appis because it's not intuitive,
it's not easy.
But um it's really it's reallydown to light exposure and light
avoidance.
Uh it doesn't need to besunlight, it can be artificial
uh light, and avoiding light isuh is not very difficult.

(30:47):
Um, you know, if you are um ifyou are in a uh if you're
outside in the sun and you needto avoid light for an hour, you
can put on dark sunglasses.
So we're talking about somethingthat's easy to comply with, but
you need to do it at the righttime for you as a traveler.
And to go back to your example,you mentioned the example of
seeing sunlight when you got toyour destination.
You might in fact should haveavoided light for an hour or two

(31:11):
upon arrival, so you might havemade jet like worse by seeing
and that's what people don'tknow yet.

SPEAKER_10 (31:17):
Yeah.
Well, I've since become totallyobsessed with Andrew Huberman,
the Huberman lab, and obviouslyone thing you're very familiar
with, I'm sure many of ourlisteners are also fans of
Andrew Huberman, but the idea ofgetting sunlight first thing in
the morning, there's nothingelse that you can do that will
give your brain the positivebenefit of being able to get,
you know, UV light into youreyes and the chemical reactions
that occur in your brain.
That first 30 minutes isactually crucial for going to

(31:39):
sleep at night.
Things like that, and he talksabout that every time.
But and it is that connection oflight, like the pineal gland
that obviously gets activatedwhen we see light or light
starts to rise and we we awakenbecause we think it's time to
get up, because it's obviouslywritten on our DNA.
But tell us about the cures.
So, like and and specifically,so the cure for jet lag from a
scientific point of view and howyou built this app to be able to

(32:03):
help people like me and manyothers that are finding
themselves in a situation wherethey feel awful and they're like
trying to figure out how theypush through and they're doing
the wrong things or misguidedthings about treating diet or
hell other health things, butthey're not fixing jet lag.
Correct.

SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
So I think uh before we talk about um before we talk
about um our app really isworking, let's get one more
scientific fact out of the way.
And this complicates how we dealwith jet lag uh on an individual
level because the circadianclock in the brain that I keep
coming back to that is soimportant and key to uh
addressing jet lag, theunderlying misalignment uh with

(32:39):
your whole circadian system andyour new time zone, which causes
jet lag.
The problem with that is it'snot the same speed in each of
us, and that complicates things.
So you've heard of the termchronotype before, I'm I'm sure.
So early birds and night owls.
Um and there's a uh a reason whysome of us are better in the
morning and some of us arebetter at night.

(33:00):
That's because the speed of thecircadian clock and brain is
supposed to be 24 hourscorresponding to Earth rotation.
But in most cases, it's eitherfaster or slower than 24 hours.
It could be somewhere between 23and a half and 25 hours.
If you're 23 and a half, you'refaster than 24 hours, you wake
up early in the morning.
If it's slower than 24 hours,you have trouble in the morning

(33:21):
and you get better in theevening and function better at
night.
So, but that difference ismassive and changes everything
in terms of how we address jetlife.
Because if you and I dine, let'ssay you are an early bird and
I'm in I'm in IDEL, we live inthe same time zone, we have the
same behaviors for a year.

SPEAKER_11 (33:39):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
That that difference in chronotype alone can cause a
six-hour time zone difference inour biology.
We can live in New York and youcan be on LA time and I can be
somewhere east of Greenland,although we're doing the exact
same things in New York.
And so the starting point foryou and I as we go on a trip is
can is gonna be completelydifferent.

(34:02):
But what's good for me in termsof light exposure, light
avoidance, is gonna becounterproductive for you.
So the starting point in orderto create a personalized
approach that will help youtackle jet lag is what's your
chronotype?
What's your normal sleeppattern, not to confuse the two,
right?
Because sleep pattern can besocially determined.
I take my kids to school earlyin the morning, although I'm a

(34:23):
night owl.
That's against my biology, butthat matters.
I need to understand that inorder to really understand where
I'm at, circadian time-wise.
And then and then you go intowhat itinerary do you have?
Are you traveling east,westward?
Are you do you have anystopovers?
When do you depart?
When do you arrive?
Those data is important too.
It's not just where you'regoing.

(34:43):
It's like when do you depart?
When you arrive, matters to howwe set up a plan.
So you put that information intothe Time Shifter app, and then
the Time Shifter app will giveyou advice, like I said before,
when do you prioritize brightlight?
When do you avoid light?
When do you sleep?
When is a good time to nap?
If you need to catch up onsleep.
And then there are a couple ofthings in there that are not

(35:04):
addressing jet lag but aresupporting the plan and
supporting sleep.
One of them is caffeine.
Caffeine does not help with jetlag, but it's a great stimulant.
So we can tell you if you wantus to tell you, it's an optional
item.
We'd say, How do you usecaffeine scientifically
effective?
And that's smaller doses moreoften, and get off of caffeine

(35:25):
eight, nine hours before a steepepisode.
Because of the long half-life ithas, it can affect your steep
quality, the REM and deep sleepyou want at night.
We don't want that to happenwhen you travel.

SPEAKER_10 (35:35):
Timeshifter.com is the website.
Time shifter obviously is thebrand that you you know you can
find on Apple or wherever youdownload your uh your apps, um,
Android or Apple, and obviouslypeople will likely want to
connect with you as well,Mickey.
So um, what would be the bestways for them to do so?
Would it be uh LinkedIn or emailor if people want to reach out
for partnership opportunities?

SPEAKER_01 (35:56):
Absolutely.
Link I'm I'm on LinkedIn.
Um uh our website gives peopledifferent ways of connecting.
We even have in the app a livechat.
So if people want to get incontact, they can just chat in
the app and they'll meetsomeone.
Uh we're trying, like everybodyelse, to deliver quick results
and solutions to problemsquickly, but you can always get
uh hold of us through the app aswell.

(36:17):
And I would love to chat withanybody.
And and I would encourage anyoneto dive deeper into circadian
science.
The faster people understand theimplications for their lives and
their their specific situations,uh the better.
It's it's really exciting what'sgonna what's gonna happen over
the next years that will helppeople in in so many different
ways, uh whether it's uhhealth-related or jet lag or

(36:40):
shift work, even athletes whereit's not just about jet lag,
it's also optimizing yourbiological peak for when you
compete.
So if you're running a marathonat nine o'clock in the morning
versus uh driving Formula One, 2p.m.
or playing NBA at 8 o'clock atnight, completely different
situations in your in yourbiology.
How do you optimize that so thatyou win?

SPEAKER_10 (37:01):
Yeah.
Well, thank you for doing whatyou do to make sure that people
are traveling longer, havingbetter experiences when they're
in destination.
And uh, I'm you know excited tosee your continued progress and
what the next 10 years holds forTime Shifter.
So, Mickey, great to finallymeet you in person.
Thanks for joining us, and goodluck with everything you have
planned for this year.

SPEAKER_01 (37:18):
Thanks, Dan.
Thanks for letting me be part ofyour show.

SPEAKER_10 (37:23):
Our next guest is actually an old friend that I
was really looking forward toseeing here at the AFA
conference in Miami.
We actually met uh when TedEvers was running Trip Tuner way
back when I was at the TravelCorporation.
We were actually looking toutilize his technology.
He's gone from startup successto corporate success.
He is now the global partnerleader, travel and hospitality

(37:44):
at Amazon Web Services, AWS asit's known.
Ted, great to see you again.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this.

SPEAKER_22 (37:50):
Dan, fantastic to be speaking with you today.
Really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_10 (37:52):
Awesome.
No, I was thrilled when I sawit.
I was like, Ted Evers, no way,Ted's gonna be there.
I I know we haven't caught upsince you uh started this new
role at AWS, and obviously Iremember way uh 15, 20 years ago
when I was at G Adventures andthere was an article about
Amazon getting into the serverspace and the hosting space, and
it was a New York Times article,and I'd given it to Bruce

(38:14):
Poontip, and we looked atgetting and we we were kind of
one of the first travelcompanies that moved over their
hosting, and that business hasbecome a multi-billion dollar
business, and obviously travelis a huge vertical.
So it's really cool to see younow taking on this role.
But tell everyone about AWS forthose people who are not
familiar with what you do, telleveryone about AWS and

(38:35):
specifically why you guys focuson travel and hospitality.

SPEAKER_22 (38:38):
Sure.
Uh I'd love to.
So, first of all, cloudcomputing, for those people who
don't know, it's basically thedelivery of uh compute storage
database AI services over theinternet on a uh pay as you go
basis.
So saving a lot of the capitalexpense that one might have
having physical servers uh, youknow, back in the day, uh that
is that's a fixed expense, andthe that you know, when you're

(39:00):
not using them, you're stillpaying for them, and then they,
you know, you have to hirepeople to maintain them.
We take all all of that what wecall undifferentiated heavy
lifting off your hands so thatyou can spin up a service,
whether you're a startup, a oneperson in a garage, or whether
you're in a large enterprise,you have access to the same
world-class technology toachieve your business
objectives.

SPEAKER_10 (39:20):
And it was such a game changer.
Like when YouTube came along andmade it possible for everyone to
have video, all of a sudden whenAWS came along, not only did it
make it possible for startups tobe able to have access to uh
world-class infrastructure tomake sure that they had that
99.99% uptime and that they hadtrust and confidence in a
partner, but the m the number oflarge-scale partners, because
obviously you guys then forceduh Microsoft to get into this

(39:42):
space, everyone realized cloudcomputing, and again it's the
vision of Bezos and some of theinitiatives that have started
out of what I understand, Ted,was you know having all this
server capacity during Novemberand December when you guys were
getting such huge volume oftraffic, and then realizing wait
a second, we have excesscapacity that we can sell, and a
business was formed out of it.
So tell everyone a little bitabout your role there, because

(40:03):
you've been there nearly fiveyears.

SPEAKER_22 (40:04):
Sure, sure, yeah.
No, it it's been it's beengreat, really uh a good position
to be in.
It's uh working across traveland hospitality, all the all the
various uh sub-industries andeach of their uh unique needs.
But um I lead our our partnerbusiness.
So all of the companies that arebuilding on AWS, from startups
to the um uh large softwarecompanies you think of, like
Salesforce.com, um on up to theconsulting firms that are

(40:27):
building on AWS for our traveland hospitality customers.
And in travel, we've got a we'revery lucky to have a good roster
of customers.
So, you know, 21 of the world'stop 30 airlines uh run on AWS,
uh, you know, nine of the tenlargest hotel chains, uh a
number of also you know,airports, cruise lines were were
present across the industry.

(40:47):
So in this position, you know,I've worked in in a lot of the
sub-industries one at a time,and now it's great to be able to
be at the cutting edge of allthe technology, a lot of the
obviously the AI that's beingdeployed uh as these companies
transform themselves.

SPEAKER_10 (41:02):
Yeah, and that so that actually brings us to AFA
and the reasons you're here,which obviously are many, but
yeah, I'd love to hear what yourplans were for AFA.
We're having this conversationon day two of the conference, of
course.
Um, what brought you here andwhat have been some of the
highlights of being here thisyear?

SPEAKER_22 (41:16):
Sure.
Well, the highlights always areuh the people, right?
It's uh meeting people likeyourself, but also we have um
obviously there's a lot ofpartners here, uh AWS partners
as well as customers.
So it's meeting with them, it'suh discussing new opportunities,
sharing some of the latest uhupdates on both sides, uh, as
well as happening hearing what'shappening in the industry.
But uh ultimately we're here forfor customers, uh, and our

(41:40):
partners are also customers, sohelping them advance their
business as well.

SPEAKER_10 (41:43):
Yeah, no, it's very cool.
And I guess one of the thingsI'd like to talk to you about is
where the industry is and andwhere it's going.
You're based in Washington,which is actually a uh a big
travel hub.
I spent a lot of time inWashington working with
Discovery Channel um on uh amajor travel project.
And obviously, you guys are partof that like tri-state area, so
there's always so much happeningaround Washington.
Yeah, there it is, yes.

(42:04):
You guys are close to New York,and it's like I just wanted to
highlight that that thereactually is a lot of uh travel
startup.
Uh there's a big travel startupscene in in Washington in that
area, and obviously you guys arethen connected to centers of
governments and so being able toadvocate.
Um tell everyone a bit aboutwhere this industry is headed
because you know, as we'rehaving this conversation in the
middle of 2026, a big topic thatI'm sure you get asked all the

(42:26):
time is AI and agentic AI, andand clearly you you're you know
you're the platform layer andthe infrastructure, um, but
you're seeing companies buildingreally clever technology on top
of that.
So I'd love to hear, based onwhat you can share about those
partners that are doinginteresting things.

SPEAKER_22 (42:42):
Yeah, sure.
So you know there's two mainpillars that we look at and how
we help our customers.
One is to improve operationalefficiency and then enhance the
traveler or the guestexperience.
So and a lot of it starts withuh a very boring topic, which is
data, right?
And so uh a lot of people willtalk about some of the agenda
capabilities, AI and all ofthose services, but really when

(43:02):
you boil it down, uh, you know,they they need to have that data
and and get that organized.
So in order to in order to takeadvantage of it, but and and for
people who think that a lot ofthe uh technology is is still a
ways off, uh we have customersright now that are doing very,
very interesting things.
I mean, United, for example, youknow, they took all of the you

(43:24):
remember in the in the the fairrules that you would look at
when you're buying a ticket andit would be like, you know, all
caps, all caps and likeabbreviations, and you'd have to
be like a you know a decoder totry to figure out what those
fair rules are.
Well, if if I'm an agent forUnited and the customers asking
me, hey, can I change thisticket and how much will it cost
and all that?
And and you know, you have to bea trained agent to kind of read
through all of that text.

(43:45):
So what they did was theyleveraged generative AI to put
it in the in their their PSS,their passenger sales uh sales
service system shares.
They wanted to put it in plainEnglish so that agents could
respond much more quickly.
They don't need to um traintrain them and ramp, you know,
take the time to ramp them.
Up and ultimately provide abetter customer experience.

SPEAKER_10 (44:02):
Yeah, it's really interesting you mentioned that
because when I started in thisindustry, I was with Carlson
Wagley after I graduateduniversity with kind of a
background in computer science,business, and and uh
understanding coding and seeingwhat these travel advisors were
doing with Sabre and GDSs andwrapping my head around GDSs,
which obviously pre-existed theinternet.
And so, you know, they wereeffectively coding and the level

(44:22):
of skill that they required tobe able to figure out fair
classes and rules, um, andwhether you needed a visa, um,
it was very sophisticated andstill is for those people who
have learned those systems andwork with GDSs, which is of
course, then all of a sudden theOTAs came along and they made it
possible for many consumers tobook these uh air tickets
directly and make ituser-friendly.

(44:42):
But the back end, as you know,is a mess for the travel
industry and has been becausethere's so many legacy
platforms.

SPEAKER_22 (44:48):
100%, 100%.
And that is that's what's the uhexciting right now is we have
services, for example, it'scalled uh uh Transform that will
help uh accelerate a lot of thatmodernization.
So to take these legacy systemsand help get them into a more
modern architecture much morequickly uh so that you can
leverage AI and and all of theother services that uh you want

(45:09):
to use to innovate.

SPEAKER_10 (45:10):
I know you guys do a lot of reports and work uh with
Skift and do these annualreports.
I would love for you to sharewhere you see the industry
headed based on some of thelatest research that you've been
doing.

SPEAKER_22 (45:20):
Sure.
So yes, we we did partner withthem uh on a digital
transformation report in thepast, and I think the number one
trend that we saw pop up wasthat the thing that concerned
executives the most, and theseare surveys of thousands of
travel and hospitalityexecutives, the number one
concern they had that thatthought was they thought was
most disruptive was just thesheer pace of change.

(45:42):
So a lot of what we do uh at AWSand our partners is really help
our customers along thatjourney, no matter where they
are, because it's it it is socomplex and it is changing so
rapidly.

SPEAKER_10 (45:52):
And for our listeners that are still trying
to figure out their AI strategy,and I'm sure you see this a lot
because it's certainly there's alot of pressure on any company
today to highlight to theirshareholders, their investors,
how they're embracing AI, howthey're unlocking value, whether
it be operational efficiency,increasing revenue.
Over the course of this podcastuh event spotlight, we've spoken
to a few AI companies, and I wasspeaking to Chris Brown from

(46:16):
Bona Fide, which is one of theseupcomers that um I'm sure you're
familiar with as well.
And they are going from successto success, working in
hospitality, and then now inaviation.
And one of the questions I askedfor him is about whether or not
they're focused on revenuegrowth or operational
efficiency.
And the answer obviously isboth, but in many instances it's
about trying to increaserevenues using agentic AI.

(46:36):
Now, they're they're ahead ofthe curve.
For all of our listeners thatare likely many of your clients
that are trying to figure outtheir agentic AI strategy, what
would be some initialrecommendations you'd have for
them based on what you're seeingworking today on your platform?

SPEAKER_22 (46:52):
Sure.
Well, number one is get on thecloud so that so that you can
leverage a lot of these and spinup these instances.
And the nice thing is that youcan use, you know, we've got
services like Amazon Bedrockwhere you can test out different
models and LLMs.
One of the one of the mistakes alot of people make when they are
first starting out is they mayuse a model or um a foundation
model or LLM that that they maynot suit the use case.

(47:12):
In many instances, traditionalAI or ML might might work,
machine learning might work forthem.
So uh that's one of them.
But the other thing is just toexperiment to get out there
because there are these toolsthat you can use at a pay as you
go basis, and also it gets downto the personal level.
So we have a service calledAmazon Quick that we use now.
It's on the desktop, whichconnects to your your email, all

(47:33):
of the files, and it actuallyhelped me prepare for this
conference, saving you knowhours of work, which is done in
minutes in terms of outreach andunderstanding which companies we
want to meet with.
So it's really to experiment andand and to dive in.

SPEAKER_10 (47:46):
And if people want to follow along, because
obviously Amazon's you know sucha massive company in this space,
and one of the things I alwaysfind fascinating is you know
when you look at real innovationand sometimes it's uh outside
the travel industry, when welooked at what online retailers
are doing and other verticalsthat are even further along than

(48:06):
the travel industry, one of thebenefits that you have at AWS is
seeing all these differentverticals.
And so for you, obviously yousee what your colleagues are
doing, and then you can seewhat's coming to travel and
hospitality.
I want to make sure I know youguys have a blog and resources
and case studies.
Um, I want to make sure all ofour listeners feel empowered
after this conversation to knowwhere to dive in, get additional
information, and to kind offollow even if you're not on

(48:28):
AWS, it's probably one of thethings you obviously need to
reconsider.
But if you're not, I'm still alot of this information is still
gonna be beneficial for you tounderstand.

SPEAKER_22 (48:35):
100%.
Yeah, so uh AWS.com slash travelis where you can find
information on case studies,customer success stories, how to
get started, uh, and then alsofollow myself and a lot of our
colleagues on are on LinkedInsharing a lot of the customer
successes that we have and andand what's working, what's not
working.
And we're at a lot of theindustry events as well, uh
trying to share the informationwith with a larger audience.

SPEAKER_10 (48:58):
And just make to make sure that the um when
people reach out, given the sizeof their organization, that's
one factor, you know, whethersmall to medium size or large
enterprise companies, um interms of the ideal client size
that you typically deal with, Imean you're here with you know
uh many multi-million, if notmulti-billion dollar companies.
Um, what is the sweet spot forAWS travel for people that might

(49:18):
reach out?
And then also for smallercompanies, what would be the
best way for them to engage withyou?
Because clearly, obviously, youhave some high profile clients
you need to work with.
And I just want to set thoseexpectations for our listeners
so that they actually know wwhere best to go.

SPEAKER_22 (49:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, we we to be clear, whatour customers can be anything
from, like I said, a singleperson startup.
And it's just again, it juststarts at AWS.com.
There are you know, one of thethings that's helped us scale as
a company is to provide a lot ofwhat we call enablement tools
and self-service options.
So it's to start there.
Uh, and then of course we've gotdifferent uh levels of the

(49:52):
organization that areresponsible for different size
businesses, and obviously it's avery, very large account like an
airline or whatever, we'll havea uh you know, dedicated account
manager, but it but it variesand a lot of it's also a two-way
street.
You know, there's there's a lotof things just like any any
resource, uh you get out whatyou put in it, and there's a lot
of resources out there that thatyou can you can uh utilize
without even talking to anyone.

SPEAKER_10 (50:11):
Yeah, well I and this is where I haven't gotten
to know Ted over the years, andI think one of the things I I I
often say to uh uh friends andcolleagues is good people know
good people, and even Ted'sresponse to that, I was kind of
giving him an out and he didn'ttake it.
And that's that that's that's uhI guess that's in your
personality, which is because Isometimes I would find that even
working at a large travelcompany, we'd reach out to a

(50:33):
meta or and we'd be quickly toldthat you know we're not spending
more than$10 million a month,and then next thing you know,
you're using self-service tools.
Right.
And so I always want to bemindful, but and so I loved your
answer to that because I I thatwas unexpected for me, but also
it highlights your personalityand your approach to business,
and obviously why they'vebrought you into this role.
And so it's rare, you know, youhave someone that has startup

(50:54):
success and then corporatesuccess.
And I'm obviously I'm thrilledfor you that and um obviously uh
Amazon's very lucky to have youbecause you know you know this
industry so well, and you're umand so yes, but uh I know people
will reach out to you afterthis.
Maybe we'll leave everyone withum one last word of wisdom or
insight from you, Ted, aboutwhere the industry is headed or
what keeps you excited aboutthis industry based on you know

(51:16):
how technology is evolving.

SPEAKER_22 (51:17):
Sure, it's the it's the potential for change, but
but also you know, travelconnects people, and it there's
always going to be that humanconnection, and the technology
is all about enabling more ofthat connection, not less.
And I'm glad you brought up theyou know that that question uh
about reaching out.
And so I've like you said, I'veI've worked at startups where it
it was me trying to get ameeting, and uh, you know, but

(51:40):
now with now with with Amazonbehind my name, it's a little
bit of the reverse, right?
Exactly, yeah.
So um I've been on both sides,and I think it's also
relationships, right?
So it's the connections not justwith the travelers who are your
customers, but it it is withpeople like like yourself in the
industry and really developingthose relationships because
that's what's going to survivethroughout human history, it
has, and that will not changeregardless of technology.

SPEAKER_10 (52:02):
Yeah, we knew each other pre-pandemic, we know each
other post-pandemic.
It's great to see you again, andobviously congrats on your
success, and I look forward tokeeping in touch and getting you
involved in our our summit laterthis year.

SPEAKER_22 (52:12):
Wonderful.
Thanks.
It's a pleasure speaking withyou, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (52:15):
My next guest is Roberto Held, who is the
business development head forthe uh Americas for Avian
Express.
I got to learn about Avion lastyear when I was here at AFA.
But Roberto, welcome to theTravel Trans Podcast.

SPEAKER_15 (52:29):
Thank you, Dan, for having me here.

SPEAKER_10 (52:30):
For sure.
Tell everyone about AvionExpress first, for anyone's not
familiar.

SPEAKER_15 (52:33):
So Avian Express is a European-based company.
It's uh based out of Lithuania.
Uh we have two AOCs in Europe,one in Lithuania, one in Malta.
And uh recently, last year, welaunched our first AOC in Latin
America in Brazil.
So now we have a very wide uhfootprint.
Um we were having at thebeginning of the year 54 um

(52:54):
A320s, um, and we do wet listinguh worldwide.

SPEAKER_10 (52:58):
Yeah, so the reason I w wanted to have Roberto on
the podcast, I had one of hiscolleagues join us last year
from Aviana Express, and itreally opened my eyes to a part
of the aviation industry Iwasn't familiar with.
And Roberto has uh just met myson, Oliver, who's been here
helping out, who's an aspiringpilot.
And it was actually one of theconversations that stood out for
me when I spoke to yourcolleague.
First of all, that a companylike this exists, um, where you

(53:19):
help airlines to step in toprovide the plane and the crew
to be able to manage flightsthat they, you know, all of a
sudden have had a disruption.
Um, the fact that a company likethat of global scale is based in
Lithuania, that I found reallyfascinating as well.
Um and then, of course, one ofthe fastest growing markets is
Latin America.
And so for all those reasons,Roberto, I was keen to have you

(53:40):
on the podcast and have thisconversation with you.
Tell us a little bit about yourrole and your focus on Latin
America.

SPEAKER_15 (53:46):
So my role is to work uh together with all the
airlines.
I mean, uh from Mexico down toArgentina.
It's a it's a huge market, um,even though there has been some
consolidation, some airlinesgoing out of business, but I
mean it remains very strong.
For over 470 million passengersflew last year in the region.

(54:06):
Um and we are working with uhmost of the large airlines uh
these days.
We have had um around 27 uhaircraft flying in this region
only out of the 54.
So half of the company and thefleet has been um around in
especially in Mexico, Argentina,and nowadays in Brazil.

(54:26):
So so that's what we do.
Um I work with governments, Iwork with uh authorities.
Since wet listing is uh is um isa unique uh segment of the
aviation, and we need to worktogether with all these
authorities and regulatory uhbodies so we we can really work
on providing the solution, butalso framing it into the
specifics of each countryregarding labor, regarding uh

(54:50):
authorizations, and um uhadjusting to a new operation
type that provides a lot offlexibility to our nets.

SPEAKER_10 (54:56):
Yeah, and that's key, obviously, the flexibility.
The way I actually envisionedyou guys after the last
conversation was like the whiteknights that you guys fly in to
save the day when needed.
And I was amazed that anorganization like this existed,
and then when your colleague wastelling me how rapidly you guys
have been growing and therecruiting, this is where I told
my son, because a few peoplehave mentioned to me, like, does
your son know about AI?

(55:17):
And uh, which is a I always findthat kind of annoying, but um
because of course he does, and Ialso don't think that AI is
going to take pilots' jobs, atleast in this next generation.
If we still aren't there withautonomous vehicles, and none of
us are gonna be comfortableflying with pla in planes where
there's not a pilot, maybe forat least the next say 20 years.
So I think he's got at least hiscareer mapped out.

(55:38):
And then when Aviam and yourcolleague was telling me about
the fact you're recruiting frompi with pilots all over the
world and you have these crewson standby as well as the
planes.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout that business model.
I'm very keen to if you wouldn'tmind sharing a bit more about
that, especially when you knowyou then partner with airlines
so that they then know you'rethe first port of call when they

(55:58):
have an issue.
If they can't service aparticular route or a flight for
whatever reason, they don't havethe crew, they don't have the
plane.
How does that happen?
What what what when do you guysget involved?
Clearly, you have a pre-existingrelationship, so you guys are on
speed dial when uh that momenthappens.
But tell us a little bit moreabout that for our listeners
that are like me are notfamiliar with a company like
this.

SPEAKER_15 (56:17):
So um we do ACMI, which stands for aircraft, crew,
maintenance and insurance.
So it's uh um, I mean aplug-and-play solution at the
end of the day for airlines.
Um, as you're describing,sometimes it's when something
happens, or uh you needflexibility and you need to
increase the fleet.

(56:38):
So basically in Europe, which iswhere we're uh based, I mean, we
have a very strong operationwith uh European carriers, and
they tend to bring the us uh toexpand capacity from May to
September, October, which is thepeak season in Europe.
So they I mean large airlines,they they they they don't go and

(56:59):
have a larger fleet, rather thanthat, they hire us just to
expand the fleet temporarily andand and we source everything.
We source the crews, we sourcethe aircraft, we actually uh put
the the the logo of the companyum on on delivery of the
aircraft.
So it's it for the passengerit's like seamless.
It's really like the sameexperience.

(57:20):
And we are also seeing anevolution uh regarding travel.
Um most of the I mean low costand most of the large airlines
have like the same low pass,same configuration of the
aircraft we provide, which is anAirbus A320 with 180 seats.
So this is one of the solutionswe bring into on the table of in

(57:42):
Europe.
Now we are the contra-cyclicalgeography in Latin America to
Europe.
So in the south, meaning Chile,uh Brazil, Argentina, the winter
takes place, um, the summertakes place uh when the winter
is happening in Europe.
So we're we bring the capacitydown and we try to work um on
that uh same model.
And we have had two great yearsin in, for example, in

(58:05):
Argentina, expanding capacity ofone carrier that went from uh 14
units to almost 20, 22 with us.
Um and that gave them a lot ofcapacity, a lot of market share
um uh and and capabilities, andand they won a lot of traction.
And when the summer in the southwas over, the aircraft flies

(58:27):
back to Europe to address thesummer in Europe.
So we uh have the flexibility tomove the capacity the aircraft
from one region to the other,and and that's what we have
done.
But we have also solvedsolution, um, situations like
the one you were describing umin Mexico.
Mexico we had last year over 20almost almost uh 20 aircraft,

(58:51):
20, yeah, 20 aircraft uh for twocompanies um that had some
situations with their engines ofthe Neos.
So we were we came and we workedfor them, um, and that was part
of the of the solution to uhovercome the situation of having
uh grounded aircraft.
And tell everyone where you'rebased.

(59:12):
I'm based out of Colombia, I runthe Americas.
Um I've been in the aviationindustry for 10 years, uh former
CFO of Avianca.
Um and I've been uh with Avionalmost five years, so it's it's
it's amazing.
I mean it's a it's a it's a bigindustry, small world, but um
it's it's very exciting to Imean be part now of another

(59:33):
angle of the industry um withcapacity.

SPEAKER_10 (59:35):
Yeah, I wanted you to share that because obviously
there's a couple things there.
One is obviously your backgroundwith Avianca, which is
impressive in and of itself, butthen also uh you're being based
in Colombia, and many of ourlisteners know I sit on the
board of a tour operator inColombia called Impulse Travel.
I've been to Colombia manytimes.
I'm very bullish on travel toColombia and how Colombia is
emerging as a global tourismdestination because of you know

(59:56):
how beautiful it is, how much ithas to offer, how affordable it
is.
Um, and that also speaks toSouth America more broadly.
I was in Chile recently andPatagonia, that whole region,
you can see the development.
And we work closely with acompany called Civitadas, based
out of Madrid, which is focusedexclusively on Spanish-speaking
tourists.
And in my conversations withthem, they are growing massively

(01:00:18):
in uh Mexico, but alsothroughout Latin America,
because Spanish speakers want totravel to Spanish-speaking
countries and they book onSpanish platforms and they get
Spanish guides.
And many OTAs and otherorganizations have been so
focused on the English languagemarket, they've been missing
this massive opportunity forSpanish speakers, which is
nearly a billion peopleglobally, as you well know.

(01:00:38):
So you've got the um language,and then you also have the fact
that South America is really setfor a tourism boom over the next
10 or 20 years.
And one of the main reasonswe're certainly seeing that
right now already is Americansthat may not be traveling to
Europe this year, given theirconcerns about what's happening
in the Middle East.
And um, but people are travelingto South America.

(01:01:00):
South America has oil.
There's that fear that all of asudden you're not gonna be able
to get back from a destination,which has been slightly
overplayed by the media.
All of our poor friends inAustralia that have been
frightened out of having aholiday this year because
they've been told if they leavethey can't get back.
Um, the reality is that's veryunlikely going to be the case,
but people are seeing more uhmore confident about traveling
to South America.

(01:01:21):
So for you, that's again one ofthe reasons I was keen to have
you as part of this, because Isee this as a big trend, and I
would love to hear your take onwhat I've just shared and what
your view is on the potential inuh the Latin American market.

SPEAKER_15 (01:01:34):
Well, uh the markets have grown recently uh and
importantly in the region.
Uh we're seeing a lot of inflowsuh coming from Europe, from the
US, and also intra-regionalflights.
Uh, we're seeing a lot uh ofthat happening.
Um we're seeing a lot oftraction as every summer in the
south.
I mean, you see all theBrazilians going to Chile or to

(01:01:54):
Argentina.
Um Argentina these days is superhot in terms of destination.
Um uh actually we we we placedthere six aircraft, and that was
um mainly dedicated to domestictravel into in Argentina, and we
also have some connectivity withBrazil.
Um, as you mentioned, Colombia.
I mean, Colombia has been alsodoing extremely well.

(01:02:16):
I mean, we have uh two oceans,we have mountains, we have
coffee, we have beautifulbeautiful cities.
But uh, I mean, we compete withother destinations like Mexico,
like Central America, theCaribbean.
So it's it's a region full ofopportunities, and I think that
that that has driven a lot oftourism um recently.
Uh you uh a stronger um USdollar has also led to uh be

(01:02:40):
cheaper for travelers, and andwe are learning a lot about
tourism in my case in Colombia,and and we know that it's a very
important source of growth uhfor GDP.
So so we're uh having greathotels, great food, great
experiences uh all over.
So um actually Colombia lastyear to give you that insight,

(01:03:02):
um was the number one uh Bogotawas the number one airport in
the region.
Is that right?
Yeah, now it was I mean lastyear it was uh no to 2025 was
Bogota.
Then again, Brazil came in infirst place last year, but
Bogotá disputes the second placewith Mexico nowadays.

(01:03:23):
So so you have like threedifferent um destinations, um,
but the larger airports are nowum Sao Paulo and then comes uh
Mexico and or Bogotá.
So the uh we're speaking about50 million passengers a year in
just in in Bogota.

SPEAKER_10 (01:03:40):
Amazing.
Okay, and I actually I want tobreak that down a little bit
further since you have suchgreat knowledge on this topic.
And you know, when you justmentioned about uh Bogota, when
I flew to Chile and ultimatelyPuerto Natales, but I it was
four flights to get there.
First stop was uh Bogota, thenSantiago, and I flew with
Avianca, and so and I wasdelighted to be back in
Colombia, also because myfavorite rum is made there and I

(01:04:01):
can only get it.
Hitchy serum?
Yes, well done.

SPEAKER_15 (01:04:03):
Oh, that's good, that's good.

SPEAKER_10 (01:04:04):
Yeah, oh my god.
I'm not even a rum drinker, butI discovered it.
Yeah, and it I the um the onethat's made with bananas that
has like, you know, the uh thereit's like two years in a barrel
with banana.
And I anyway, it's it's absolutegold.
There's like eight countries inthe world you can get it, and uh
unfortunately the US and Canadaaren't on that list.
And so um good friends of minewho just came from Columbia
brought me two bottles justrecently.
But when I flew through theairport, I was like, wait a

(01:04:26):
second, I can stop at duty freeon my way back.
Anyway, one of the many reasonsI love Colombia.
But uh, there's one other thingI would really love for you to
be able to share with us that Ithink our listeners will find
really interesting, is inboundtravelers to South America, and
I know it's a little difficultto generalize, um, but I'd love
to know just from your vantagepoint, since you obviously have
a good perspective of the entirecontinent, where are most of the

(01:04:49):
international travelers comingfrom, uh, as far as USA, Canada,
North America, Europe, or Asia?
I realize it's a little moredifficult to get there from
places like Australia.
And so I'd love to know what theinbound is, and if you wouldn't
mind just sharing a few insightsaround how people travel around
Latin America, because you justmentioned something really
interesting that stood out to mewhen I was in Chile was the

(01:05:09):
number of Argentinians that weretraveling as well as Brazilians,
and there is much moreopportunity for these regional
flights, and it's opening upmore possibilities for people to
travel around South America.
So, yeah, if you wouldn't mindgiving us the international
perspective first, and then justa few highlights from regional
travel.

SPEAKER_15 (01:05:28):
Sure.
Remember that we live in aregion that has um some travel
restrictions abroad in terms ofvisas.
So some most of the countries inthe region require a visa to go
to the US.
Right.
So I mean the other options areto travel around, which is
something that the Braziliansare are doing a lot these days.
So they they go they travel toArgentina.

(01:05:49):
Uh they they they actually therewas um uh there's a a city um
town in Argentina it's calledBariloche.
And they they travel so muchfrom Brazil that they call it
Brasiloche.
It's a ski zone in the summer,it's it's it's pretty nice.

(01:06:13):
Um so I mean you have a lot ofof travelers from the south from
Brazil moving around to the toArgentina, to Chile, and also
you see a lot, I mean startingto see a lot, I mean, to the
Caribbean, you see a lot ofBrazilian and Argentinians.
They they they connect throughLima or to Bogotá.
Um, and you see a lot of umtravelers going to Mexico.

(01:06:37):
I mean, we we have a lot ofdestinations, different um
destinations in our map, butit's a huge region.
I mean, going from Mexico toSantiago can take you nine
hours, which is almost the sametime to go to Europe.
So it's it's a huge region.
Uh from Bogotá to uh Rio or toBuenos Aires is about 550, 6

(01:06:59):
hours.
So I mean, you I mean it's it'sa long way to to travel, uh, but
you you see a lot ofintra-regional travel taking
place these days.
Um it's easy.
I mean, it's in Spanish, most ofthe the region besides Brazil,
so it's it's it's easy for allthe travelers to connect in the
different countries and to reachout to beautiful destinations

(01:07:21):
like Cusco or to go to BuenosAires, to Patagonia, or to go to
Mexico, um Cancun.
I don't know.
I mean, there are many, manydestinations.

SPEAKER_10 (01:07:31):
Well, and one thing you mentioned there too,
Roberto, is that as peoplediscover how easy it is to
travel around South America, themore likely people are going to
be spending extended periods oftime and traveling to multiple
countries.
And we've done uh four or fivetrips to South America.
Our first, we kind of went toChile, Argentina, and Brazil.
Um, and the realization is it'sreally easy to get around once

(01:07:53):
you're in destination with bothflights and transport, uh, much
more similar to Europe.
And I think that's somethingthat many people are just not
necessarily familiar with.
They might go to onedestination, but actually, it's
such an amazing continent toexplore multiple countries.
So obviously, we've we've Ithink we've done our um uh the
good service of making sure thatpeople are aware of the
importance of uh of traveling toLatin America, but to bring us

(01:08:14):
back to Miami and why we're hereat AFA, and Miami is such a hub
for people that live in LatinAmerica and you know travel
through to the U.S.
I would love to understand whatbrings you guys to AFA this
year.
Obviously, I've got a few ideas,um, but specifically what
brought you to the event thisyear.
Obviously, you've been uh a fewtimes before, and what are some

(01:08:35):
of the benefits of being herethis year?

SPEAKER_15 (01:08:37):
So, I mean we we come here to to connect, I mean,
to to connect with some of theplayers that come around.
I mean, we had a uh a couple ofgreat CEOs um of airlines in in
in in on the stage.
So we we try to connect them andto understand uh what's
happening also in the industry,not only in the in Latin
America, but also what'shappening with airports, what
what are the trends, what whatare we seeing regarding uh

(01:09:00):
flight patterns, what what arethe airports doing?
Um so we we we understand morethe the landscape.
Um we also I mean uh positionourselves to show uh our
capabilities and to explore whatelse we can do with the
different airlines.
Um the region is having a lot ofconsolidation uh lately in Latin
America.
You're seeing, I mean, themovements of Abianca

(01:09:23):
consolidating to Abra, um, whichis also I mean balancing the
equation with LATAM and theMexicans now that are also
consolidating between Viva andVolaris.
So, I mean, there's a lot ofthere are a lot of things
happening in in the region.
So we come here to see what elseis happening um regarding uh
user experience, uh what are theairlines doing or what they can

(01:09:44):
share with the audienceregarding um what are they
seeing with the passengers uhtrends, and of course we're
seeing a lot of AI, a lot of uhnew technologies coming into
scene and it's I mean it's agood hotspot for for us every
year to come here and to umshake hands with our uh
colleagues.

SPEAKER_10 (01:10:04):
Fantastic.
And I know seeing you over uhyesterday and today, the reality
is there's an amazing communitythat comes together for AFA that
you're clearly uh a key part of.
And one of the things I I lovedwhen I got to learn more about
Avian Express is that you guysare the airline for airlines.
That's true.
That's true.
And I was like, I didn't evenknow that existed, but it makes
total sense once you learn moreabout it, and I'm sure it does

(01:10:25):
for all of our listeners aswell.
And I'm looking forward to doingmore on aviation and airlines uh
over the course of season eightas we continue our podcast and
for our summit later this year.
So I look forward to staying intouch.
Um but I want to make sure allof our listeners know how to
find you guys to learn more.
Avionexpress.aro is the website,A-E-R-O.
But if people want to connectwith you directly, Roberto, or

(01:10:46):
reach out to specific members ofthe team, what would be the best
way to do that?

SPEAKER_15 (01:10:49):
Well, you can reach me at LinkedIn.
Uh, I mean, if if you're too shyto write me an email, you can
write me uh to roberto.help,which is um h-l d at
avionexpress.aero, as youmentioned.
Um the the good part is I speakSpanish, a little bit
Portuguese, English, German.
So I mean, very impressive.

(01:11:10):
We're still working on my space.

SPEAKER_10 (01:11:15):
Fantastic.
Well, Roberto, muchas gracias.
Real pleasure to meet you, anduh good luck with the rest of
the conference.
And obviously, you've got a uh avery bright future ahead and and
uh uh likely a banner year forAvian Express for 26 going into
2012.
So um good luck with everythingand I look forward to staying in
touch.

SPEAKER_15 (01:11:32):
Dan, muchas gracias.

SPEAKER_10 (01:11:39):
Our next guest here live at AFA in Miami is David
Hodges, who is the VicePresident Americas of Virgin
Atlantic.
I had a chance to connect withhim yesterday and was really
keen for him to join and be apart of our special event
spotlight.
David, welcome to Travel Trends.
Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_19 (01:11:56):
Thank you for having me, Dan.
Great to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (01:11:58):
Fantastic.
Obviously, I'm a huge fan of uhVirgin Atlantic, as I told you
yesterday and the Virgin brand.
So I really wanted you to be apart of this conversation.
And uh but tell everyone alittle bit about your role at uh
Virgin Atlantic and where you'rebased, of course, and then
ultimately what brings you toAFA here in Miami.

SPEAKER_19 (01:12:16):
Well, thanks, Dan.
Yes, I'm the vice president ofAmerica's, as you said, and so I
cover the regions.
Uh it started here in January,so really excited to be over in
America, and I cover Canadawhere we fly daily to Toronto,
kind of down to the Caribbean,and obviously everything in
between.
And the US is a big market forus.
I think the clue's in the name,right?
Virgin Atlantic.
Been flying here since westarted in 1984.

(01:12:37):
Um, and I've got the pleasure ofleading the teams out here.
And the reason I came here tothe uh Aviation Festival
Americas as well was very Ithink there were two main
reasons in a sense.
One was to learn.
Uh it's it's always fascinatingto hear from industry leaders,
to hear about what some of thenew businesses and some of the
the leading tech companies uhwithin our space are doing, what

(01:12:58):
they're evolving to, wherethat's going next.
And also to talk about what'sgoing on at Virgin Atlantic
because there's a lot going onin our business at the moment.
We're really focused on how wecan keep the the customer
premium experience growing,getting stronger and stronger.
And so there's some excitingthings around Starlink, around
um different technologies thatwe're using.

(01:13:20):
Um, and I'm based in Atlanta,and and and a big part of that
is our partnership with uh withDelta Airlines.
So we've been um in a we're in ajoint venture with them and Air
France KLM that brings togethersome of the most premium
carriers in the world across thetransatlantic and working
closely with them and talkingabout all the different things
we're doing for the customer isalways really exciting to share
at these conferences.

SPEAKER_10 (01:13:41):
Yeah, no, that's great.
Thanks for that context.
And for our listeners too,you've been with Virgin Atlantic
nearly 13 years, although, asyou just said, you've you know
just moved across to Atlantalast year.
And as I was chatting with youyesterday, I was like, Oh, are
you based in London?
Because you've got such a lovelyEnglish accent.
You're like, no, Atlanta.
I didn't see that coming.
I didn't see the Atlanta.

SPEAKER_19 (01:13:59):
Well, and London is it is a great city to leave
behind, but uh excited for mynew life in Atlanta for now.

SPEAKER_10 (01:14:06):
Yeah, I know that's fantastic.
I was telling you that we livedin LA for a few years with our
uh young kids, and obviously Iloved uh living in the US.
I'm based in Toronto as ourlisteners know, but I love being
here in Miami.
I love um uh all aspects of theAmerican market.
So putting uh geopoliticalthings aside, I think we all
just need to do to just get onand run our businesses
successfully.
Um and so I think it's reallycool that you're based in

(01:14:29):
Atlanta, especially having ayoung family and getting to know
the American market.
And one of the things thatyou're uniquely positioned to do
is, you know, when you um comefrom another market, you you
have a different vantage pointof you know the opportunity in
the US and then being here in inMiami.
So let's let's give all of ourlisteners, especially for anyone
who may not be familiar withVirgin Atlantic.

(01:14:49):
I'm sure most people knowRichard Branson and the Virgin
brand, so I won't ask you to gothat far back in the history.
Um but tell everyone a bit aboutVirgin Atlantic, how long you
guys have been in the US market,um, and again, I guess what's
kind of what brings you here toAFA to talk about all the latest
developments happening withVirgin Atlantic.
So take take us through some ofthose.

SPEAKER_19 (01:15:09):
Yeah, so well, we're uh a premium carrier, and I
think one of the main trendsthat we've I think we've seen
post-COVID, those um experiencesthat people felt like they
missed out on.
I think we've really seen a boomin people wanting premium
experiences, not to miss out onthose.
And I think that's been anincreasing trend.
And but we've been a premiumcarrier since we started, as you
said, in 1984, and we werestarting to fly from the US

(01:15:31):
then.
So for us, it's in our culture,it's in our DNA to have that
kind of premium premiumizationthat uh that that everyone's
talking about.
But I think the way it'sevolving now as well, it's
really interesting to come hereand there's you know it's full
of tech companies now.
Maybe it wouldn't have beenfive, ten years ago, right?
Uh in in the same way, but fullof companies talking about AI.
And we're really investing inthose spaces.

(01:15:53):
We just launched, we're thefirst airline in the world to
launch uh an app through ChatGBT to for people to uh say in
everyday language what they wantto do for a holiday, and then go
straight through to the virginbooking processes.
There's ways in which we'repersonalising the pro the
processes of which people areusing to experience travel, but
we're making sure in that virginway that we keep the human

(01:16:14):
touch, and I think that's thething that we're really trying
to talk about when we talk aboutAI because we know, and I've
worked, as you said, for Virginfor 12-13 years, I've worked in
different departments, I've ledour teams at the airport, uh,
I've worked with our cabin crewfor a number of years, and those
are the people that deliverexceptional experiences.
And whilst you know, the new uhtechnology that we use, for

(01:16:34):
instance, we now got Starlink onboard our aircraft on our A350s,
and by the start of 27, it'll beacross all fleets, and that's
game-changing Wi-Fi that allowsyou to stream and personalise
your in-flight entertainmentcontent, but it also gives us
the opportunity to give our crewmore access to uh conversations
we can have with them from theground that can help personalize
the experience.

(01:16:55):
So that human touch is reallyimportant to us, and it's a
really important message for usto share with how we're using
these technologies, which Ithink is one of the main themes
of a lot of the conferences, andcertainly one of these that I've
been attending.

SPEAKER_10 (01:17:07):
Yeah, for sure.
And just on that note, remindme, uh Dave, have you been to an
AFA event before here in thehave you been to the Americas
event?

SPEAKER_19 (01:17:14):
This is the first no, this is the first time I've
been to the Americas one, so itwas great to be here.
I I so I moved to America, asyou said, in in January, and
obviously I'd spent time youknow um working for Virgin and
with with the US being such abig market for us over here
before, but it's reallyimportant for me to immerse
myself in uh in the industryover here in a in a in that way.
And you get lots of people fromuh you know, experts, leaders

(01:17:36):
from across the US, uh Canada,North America market coming to
these conferences.
So it was really good to see umand had some really you know
interesting conversations withdifferent people that you
wouldn't get to meet if youdidn't come to these events.

SPEAKER_10 (01:17:48):
Yeah, for sure.
And as our listeners know, thisis my second AFA, so I'm only uh
just one year ahead of you.
If I haven't been to the uh uhGlobal Aviation Conference in
Lisbon, and obviously they havea great conference in Asia as
well.
And so for me, you know, I thisyear has been uh um a huge
improvement over last year justin terms of uh the the caliber

(01:18:09):
of the speakers and thesessions, and so I really
enjoyed last year, but this yearhas been uh just that much
better from my perspective overthe last couple of days.
And I'd love to hear your takesince it is your first your
first time at AFA, and we'rehaving this conversation on day
two.
So if you wouldn't mind sharingsome of the highlights of being
here this year, any sessionsyou've attended that were uh uh
that stood out to you.

SPEAKER_19 (01:18:29):
Yeah, I well I think the the keynotes are always
interesting, hearing from CEOs,and we had uh you know, hearing
from Latam who we work with, andWestJet, who we also partner
with in Canada um and haveonward connections for, and and
you know, hearing from from fromDavid from Breeze is always
interesting as well.
So I you know I find those kindof those leader conversations
always interesting.
And the I had I went to someinteresting con uh conversations

(01:18:50):
on the side around loyalty,which I thought were really
interesting, and the the theimportance of loyalty uh in
aviation is just growing andgrowing and growing, and
something that you know throughour flying club product, you
know, we've we've been focusedon as well.
So uh lots of differentinteresting conversations, but
also just walking around andhaving some conversations with
different businesses as wellthat I'd never heard of or
didn't know much about andlearning.

(01:19:12):
And you know, not all of them,of course, we're going to end up
working with, but it's it'sreally interesting to hear the
trends of what people are arekind of focused on.
And so you could see that AI waspredominant, but how people are
trying to use that in differentways to improve you know revenue
optimization or the bookingprocess, you know, there's all
these different businesses thatare that are there.

(01:19:32):
Uh, you know, so lots to learn,I would say.

SPEAKER_10 (01:19:35):
Yeah, when that's you know, for me, I had the
privilege of being part of apanel yesterday, and we had
American Airlines on uhOneWorld, and actually a few of
those uh panelists are also partof this uh spotlight episode.
And obviously, one of the thingsI was getting into with them is
some of the trends they'reseeing in the industry.
And I'd love to get your take onthat as well.
Obviously, we started theconversation with you sharing
some of the developments arounda version of Atlantic.

(01:19:57):
I know that uh when Terrapin andthe team opened up the
conference, a big topic was onfuel prices, and that's been a
topic in a couple of theconversations.
Clearly, it's um you know it'shaving a dramatic impact on uh
the global economy, butspecifically on uh jet fuel and
and and flight prices.
And so that that is obviouslytop of mind for people here.

(01:20:19):
But what are some of the thingsthat you're uh paying attention
to?
What are some of the things thatyou might call out to our
listeners um that they should befocusing on when it comes to the
big trends in aviation?

SPEAKER_19 (01:20:30):
I think uh you know, obviously, you know, you're
right in what you say, but Ithink the the the kind of more
medium-term trends that we'reseeing that are I think are
really interesting for theaviation uh industry, and and I
think you're seeing them acrossmultiple airlines of different
business models, is that peoplereally are valuing experience.
Price obviously will always bevery important, but people are
really valuing experience, andand with that they want things

(01:20:53):
that are slightly different,they want things that are not
just the same all the time, andI think that that premium
experience that people want isreally important.
But I think the trends thatwe're seeing alongside within
premium, because I think peopletalk a lot about premium, is
personalization.
People really want thatpersonalized service, but they
don't want to lose um, theydon't want to lose the
experience to technology, and Ithink that's where airlines who

(01:21:16):
can um use the their theirpeople to make sure that their
people give great experiencesalongside these technological
developments that really deliverpersonalized service, I think,
are the ones that are gonnastand out.
And obviously, you know, I wouldsay that that that uh we've got
the right people and the rightplans to do that, but uh you
know I I think that's one of thethings you're gonna see more and

(01:21:36):
more of, and I don't see thatchanging at this time.
And there'll be things that comeand and and hopefully go like
the um what you talked about afew minutes ago, um, but I think
that that's here to stay for asustained period.

SPEAKER_10 (01:21:48):
And when you look at Virgin and your plans over the
next 12 to 18 months, especiallyin the US market, um despite
some of the challenges we'reaware of, the the thing I love
about the travel industry isthat um whenever there are
short-term setbacks, you know,people still travel.
And as you mentioned, you know,with Virgin Atlantic being in
the premium market, thatactually is almost a market unto

(01:22:09):
itself that is a bit moreresilient, um uh versus say the
ultra-low-cost airline.
So like the sector that you'rethe high value customers that
you have that choose to flyLondon to New York with Virgin
Atlantic, uh, your regularbusiness class customers,
they're still gonna be travelingfor business, they're still
gonna be paying more premiumrates.
Um, and so uh this is wherethere's winners and losers

(01:22:32):
throughout the um, you know, thevarious challenges that continue
to come up in the travelindustry.
Um but I'd love for you to sharejust you know two final things.
One is um where Virgin is headedin the um the next 12 to 18
months in the US market.
I'm sure uh many of ourlisteners would be intrigued to
know.

SPEAKER_19 (01:22:48):
Yes, our our focus in the US market is is to
continue to grow our customerexperience to that next level
and to work with our partners atDelta to do that.
You know, with through Delta weprovide such connectivity across
the US market.
Um so it it is those investmentsin things like Starlink that
will roll out.
It it is those investments inthings like our new

(01:23:11):
technologies, um, through ourpartnerships with OpenAI and
Tomorrow and through withthrough the concierge that we've
got and the app through ChatGBT,and it's all these things that
continue to improve thatcustomer experience because we
know how much the Americanmarket values these these
improvements for the whetherit's for the booking process,
whether it's for when you're onboard, um, whether it's for um

(01:23:34):
how they you know rebook andloyalty and those kind of
things.
So it's a real focus on thecustomer experience as it we're
alongside our partners at Deltaand F Lance KLM as a joint
venture across thetransatlantic.

SPEAKER_10 (01:23:47):
Yeah.
No, thanks for sharing that.
Obviously, I've you it's one ofthe airlines that I'm still uh
very keen to fly at some point.
I have uh quite a few friendsthat have loved uh flying Virgin
Atlantic and um and especiallyI'll be.

SPEAKER_19 (01:23:58):
We're daily Toronto London, Dan.
We're daily Toronto London, soyou've got you know you've got
no excuse but to uh visit thebrilliant city that is London,
and I will very happily give youuh a multitude of tips of things
to do in that great city.

SPEAKER_10 (01:24:10):
Yeah, I love it.
No, I and I'm back and forth toLondon quite regularly, but this
is where you know when you're aloyalty, when you're a Star
Alliance, and like it's it's oneof the things we're actually
exploring on our loyalty seriesbecause we've had One World part
of this and Star Alliance andand uh which uh program or you
guys have your own distinctloyalty program?
Just remind me.

SPEAKER_19 (01:24:28):
We have our own loyalty program, but we are
we're also so we're members ofSky Team, we have our own
loyalty program, but also withinthe US market, we know people
love Delta's Sky Miles as wellas Virgin's flying club, and so
you can look through um Deltafor Virgin as well and use
things like Sky Miles andDelta's loyalty programme.
So there's different optionsfrom a loyalty perspective, but
um you know loyalty as you saidis really important, and then um

(01:24:50):
you you know, but I think umwhat we know is, and I think
this is the critical thing forus from a loyalty perspective.
We worked you know, workedreally hard, and we had you
know, we had a campaign earlierin the year where thousands came
across from BA to to VirginAtlantic on our loyalty program,
is once they stick they fly withus, they stick with us.
So that's the challenge is toalways get people to fly with
us.
The same with you uh and yourloyalty program.

(01:25:12):
I assure you, once you fly withus, I don't think you'll fly
with anyone else.

SPEAKER_10 (01:25:15):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that, Dave.
And one thing I want to finishoff on on a personal note,
because you were uh so kind andgenerous to my son yesterday, as
I've mentioned through therecording, he kindly joined me
for this conference because heis studying to become a pilot,
just finished his first year ofuniversity, and so he's been
helping me here at the booth,and you had a nice chat with him
yesterday, and he was so um kindof star-studded when I was
speaking to him last night thathe was and he commented you

(01:25:38):
because in when he was growingup, his vision was being uh
flying British Airways fromLondon to New York.
I think mainly because he'dlooked at the pain scale, but
also I was born in England, hehas that that benefit, and then
he realized, wait a second, hesaid British Airways to the
wrong person when he wasspeaking to Persian.

SPEAKER_18 (01:25:54):
He's got a better airline to fly with.
I hope I've uh have changed hiscareer path there, but I'm sure
he'll be uh very successfulwhatever he chooses to do.

SPEAKER_10 (01:26:01):
Yeah, you certainly opened up his mind.
He was like, wait a second, Inever thought about Persian, but
yes, so uh no, but yeah, thankyou for that.
On a personal note, since you dohave uh a couple young kids
yourself and you obviously justmoved to the US, one of the
great things about living in anew country is obviously
embracing the opportunity totravel around and and uh see new
cities.
Um, given that we're going intosummer here, I'm sure you have

(01:26:22):
some family holiday plans.
What's next up for you and thefamily for exploring America?

SPEAKER_19 (01:26:27):
Well, well, I quite like country music.
So we're gonna go to Nashvilleum and experience some country
and go to the Grand Old Opry,and then we're gonna, I think,
try the North Florida coast aswell, because uh these are the
sort of places where you knowyou can drive to from Atlanta
and uh experience some of theculture and see some of the
towns along the way that youdon't necessarily it's not as
easy to do when you don't livein the country.

(01:26:48):
So you know we're blessed withthe different options from
Atlanta, um, but looking forwardto just experiencing places in
America that you wouldn'tnecessarily normally experience
uh as a tourist.

SPEAKER_10 (01:26:58):
Oh, that's awesome.
Yeah, I love Nashville.
You're gonna have a fantastictime there.
That's a good thing.
Thank you.
Actually, a great familydestination.
And um, yeah, enjoy the grandold Opry.
But before we uh let you go, Iwant to make sure our listeners
can reach out to connect withyou.
So if um they're interested inin reaching out to you directly,
Dave, or connecting with theVirgin team, what would be the
best ways for them to do that?

SPEAKER_19 (01:27:18):
Yes, reach out to me.
I'm on LinkedIn, so DavidHodges, you can easily search
me.
I'm the vice president for theAmericas Virginic, send me a
message and love to connect anduh and share my details and
speak to anyone um about traveluh who wants to have a
conversation.
It's always uh always fun totalk to people about this
amazing industry.

SPEAKER_10 (01:27:35):
Awesome.
Well, it's terrific to meet youhere.
Thanks for making the time, andI look certainly look forward to
uh to keeping in touch andthanks for being part of our
event spotlight from AFA.

SPEAKER_19 (01:27:44):
Thanks, Dan.
Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_10 (01:27:47):
Our next guest is Emily Gazot.
She's traveled here all the wayfrom Paris, France.
She is the CEO and co-founder ofall the way.io, which is a
really fascinating business.
I wanted to have her on.
the spotlight episode to talkabout what she built
pre-pandemic and how it's grownsince the Paris Olympics because

(01:28:08):
it was her timing wasincredible.
Um but first of all, bonjour.
Welcome Emily.
Thanks for joining us on TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:14):
Bonjour.
Nice to meet you and nice to sayhi to everyone listening to the
podcast.

SPEAKER_10 (01:28:18):
And so tell everybody about all the way.io
this I've I've I've gotten therundown on this business and I
find it really interesting.
But tell everyone a bit aboutyour background and this company
that you created.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:30):
All right.
So all the way is the operatingsystem for distributed
logistics.
Basically what we do is we helpairlines, airports, hospitality
players, like congress uhconvention centers and uh hotels
to manage luggage in anefficient and transparent way.

(01:28:54):
We also support customers ingetting the luggage out of the
way.

SPEAKER_10 (01:28:59):
And so this is a fly stress free we handle your
baggage your bags from yourevent to the city and so tell
everyone a little bit about howwhy you created this business
because you got into the travelspace you were doing some work
with the core I found it reallyfascinating.
You don't have to go into thefull backstory but obviously
every great startup begins witha problem that you decided to

(01:29:19):
solve.

SPEAKER_02 (01:29:20):
Yeah so actually I'm not coming from the travel
industry.
I'm more coming from theconsumer goods retail industry
and I have a background in data.
Basically I've worked almost 15years on data collaboration
projects.
And that was my background I wasa consultant in AI and data

(01:29:40):
practice in Paris as you canhear from my accent and uh you
know one day the partner from myconsulting firms comes to me and
says you know Air France hasbeen working on this remote
backchecking initiative forquite some time and they have
that strategic vision that it'sthe way to go but they would
like to have a full 360 analysisof this product opportunity.

(01:30:06):
And then Air France has you knowI'm sure you know a very
successful loyalty program,Travel Blue, and they have a
preferred partnership withAccor.
Accor is the number onehospitality group in uh in
Europe they have more than 5,000hotels and they do also struggle

(01:30:27):
with luggage because someproblem with um for our France
because of infrastructuresaturation luggage is created a
big problem for space efficiencyfor customer experience there's
some security issues so theywere sharing a pain point I
guess.
And um so I've worked on thatproject end of 2019 and

(01:30:51):
beginning of 2020 of courseCOVID happened so that subject
was no longer a priority but itstayed with me.
I was going on you know someother consulting project but I
thought the the challenge wasbags was massive the size of the
market um was considerable andit was not only about airlines

(01:31:17):
it was also about train aboutcoups about hotels you know it
was touching so many hubs andthere were nothing out there no
no software to to manage thecomplexity and visibility and
chain of custody around luggage.
So I thought it would you knowlet's um let's jump into it.

(01:31:39):
So I started at a company um endof 2022 we launched our first
product in June 2023.
It's been three years now and uhwe've been very successful.
Obviously we started one yearbefore the Paris Olympics and
that was just the springboardfor acceleration both from a

(01:32:00):
technical to consumer point ofview I think it has created huge
adoption.
We benefited from a lot ofvisibility.
So we've been um we've beenpretty um pretty fast and pretty
happy about the whole journeyfor the past three years.

SPEAKER_10 (01:32:14):
Yeah that's fantastic and I see people here
at the conference with theirbags and obviously if they chose
to use all the way they wouldhave the benefit of having their
bags be taken to the airport sothat they can just arrive at the
airport hands free and thencheck into their flight.
And it's something that this isa real issue for business

(01:32:37):
travelers for sure.
Clearly Paris is one of the toptourist destinations around the
world how has it expanded sinceyou started the business in
Paris?
What cities are you in now?
And obviously we're here in theUS so I presume you're also
expanding beyond Europe.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:55):
Yeah so we are operating in two major airports
in Paris Paris Charles de Gaulleand Paris Oli which are in top
ten Europe airports.
We also started Gardner which isEurope's largest train station
as I was mentioning we uh wealso have a train product we're
operating in the sixth majorconvention center in uh Paris

(01:33:18):
and we're also working atDisneyland Paris from we for we
we created a product for that uhcalled magical backcheck it's a
great product um love the namegood branding magical back check
is a great product and love ittoo and Disneyland Paris team
has been amazing in in pushingthat initiative in certainly um
now we're gonna open in um insix weeks in Brussels I want to

(01:33:42):
stop here and say that in lessthan three years we've been able
to develop five products so thedeparture product the arrival
product the train transferinternal product um the meeting
and events product and the backcheck clock room product and so
we've been very fast in creatinga full portfolio of product and

(01:34:02):
that created a lot of interestfrom both airline train
companies hotels and conventioncenters we are opening Brussels
airport in a few weeks with thearrival product and we'll soon
be expanding to uh Amsterdam uhto other airports uh in France
um to Spain to Italy PortugalMorocco and the US and Canada

(01:34:28):
amazing thank you we got Canadain there as well that's
wonderful and obviously MontrealI imagine will be a great hub
for you as well as uh my homecity of Toronto and Toronto is a
great example of an airport thathas reached already full
capacity and it's superinteresting talking with the
Toronto teams because you knowbasically um now you you can't

(01:34:51):
pour more concrete you can't addmore square meters to the
airport for many reasons it'stoo expensive it's too slow and
for environmental reasons it'sjust you know you have to get a
trade off and all the way iscreating that virtual capacity
to expand the airport in thecity center and you have

(01:35:11):
airports like Seattle withToronto, New York obviously with
the new Terminal One just superexcited about new ways to look
at it just flipping the storyabout you know how we've we've
read the airport so far.

SPEAKER_10 (01:35:24):
Yeah.
Well it's really great to sitdown in this conversation with
you because one of the thingsthat we often talk about in the
travel industry is how do youmake it a more seamless or
frictionless experience.
And when you mention Disney, myfirst real joyous experience
with this type of service wasactually flying into Orlando
with a Disney booked vacationwith my wife and kids and
someone had said to me it's oneof the delightful things is that

(01:35:46):
your bags are checked rightthrough to your hotel.
And it was the first and onlytime where I've arrived at a
airport and I just got on thecoach and the bags get handled
and they arrive in your room andit was like oh my goodness I
didn't realize how much moreenjoyable travel would be when
you don't have that hasslefactor of having to wait for
your bags and then having todrag your bags and and so for me

(01:36:07):
this is like the type of servicethat I would use as often as
possible so that's why I want toknow how quickly you're
expanding.
But tell everyone what bringsyou to AFA because clearly I I
know you've been to WorldAviation Festival in Lisbon but
this is your first aviationfestival the Americas and
clearly it makes sense you're uhbeing here because you're
expanding to North America.
But yeah tell us a little bitabout your experience here so

(01:36:28):
far.

SPEAKER_02 (01:36:28):
Yeah um I'm super excited to be here it's
definitely a different vibe Imust say to people listening
it's more cosy.
I mean the the airline industryeverybody knows each other it it
feels like a big family right uhit feels like friends I mean
again and definitely have thatfeeling in in that um in that
meeting here um I just wanted tomeet with um you know airports

(01:36:53):
and airlines that have alreadyshared some interest we've
worked for Delta Airlines forthe Paris Olympics uh we've
worked um we had some discussionaround with um with a few
American couriers it'sinteresting because to me as a
European person it's it'sinteresting to see that that
kind of initiative hasn't reallybreak through in the US there

(01:37:17):
were many proof of concept therewere many initiatives um but
never any s any scaling and anddefinitely the the technology we
bring to the ball also becausewe're a new company right we've
built our data model and ourarchitecture on brand new
methodology that you wouldn'tfind 10 years ago um you know
it's it's it's great to see thatthere is some interest from

(01:37:38):
something that has builtsomething that has built has
been built sorry outside of theUS so yeah we're we're here to
meet that people um that haveexpressed a sheer interest of
what we're doing.

SPEAKER_10 (01:37:49):
Yeah for sure and I would imagine there's lots of
partnership opportunities herefor you and one of the things
I'd love to ask you about too istechnology given that obviously
that's a big part of what youare helping facilitate for your
guests and that's been a bigtopic here and so maybe you've
attended some sessions on thisbut when you look at where
technology is today and whereyou're headed with um all the

(01:38:11):
way and what you're seeing inthe industry is there
opportunities to betterintegrate with existing systems
that exist um yeah what's yourover overall view on where
technology is today and and howit's evolving uh in 2026?

SPEAKER_02 (01:38:25):
Okay so the I I don't have the the the full 360
perspective so it's only mypersonal opinion and also you
have to take into account my mybackground again I'm coming from
the retail industry whereeverything is very fast very
open very agile especially onthe tech stack and when I
created all the way three fouryears ago I discovered what was

(01:38:48):
airline IT you wouldn't say techyou would see IT it's not a
lasagna it's a spaghetti and ittook me uh a long time to
understand those spaghetti andwhat value is so what I can tell
is for us it's been amazing tobuild technology for the past

(01:39:09):
three years and uh from a starton point of view the time is
incredibly exciting.
Um we're building for the realworld I'm not building a price
optimization engine I'm reallybuilding for super complex real
life problems and this is youknow technology has been amazing

(01:39:30):
and we all know for the past umyears months but I would say
where we see the biggeststruggle is the capacity for
airlines to to integrate the thethe bottleneck is their agility
the bottleneck is their and theyhave so many projects also
because for them too this is avery exciting pivotal moment

(01:39:52):
from for a technical standpoint.
And you know as good as we mightbe we are one again uh amongst
10, 20, 50 projects that theairline has.
So the technology is not anissue everybody is very excited
about you know that momentthere's many vendors many value
proposition out there.

SPEAKER_10 (01:40:13):
Certainly for us as a startup uh I mean what we've
built uh is incredible in thetech execution that we are we've
been able to uh to impressairlines and customers with uh
with uh our different featuresso super happy with what's uh
being brought out there that'sgreat and the reason I asked
that is because you know fromwhat I understand you're
building the first operatingsystem that's really dedicated

(01:40:34):
to off-airport and off-stationbaggage logistics and this whole
uh aspect of travel is obviouslyit's critical to a guest because
this is their luggage um butalso when you look at
partnerships we always talkabout APIs application
interfaces and how you have towork together and then if you're
trying to connect betweenairlines and other travel

(01:40:54):
industry like tour operators oreven just between hotels and um
and uh airlines often hotelstoday are still using the
classic system of writing thingsdown on a little piece of paper
and giving and ripping off apiece of a tag and that
highlights to me just still howold school our industry is you
know if you've got a boardingpass and I've got a ticket in my
wallet for my bag I have to goback to my hotel, give this

(01:41:15):
ticket and like and so why isthis not on my phone?
Why is this not automated?
And so I still feel like so manyaspects of our industry are are
still quite antiquated.
So clearly you are coming upagainst those challenges.
Absolutely yeah um tell us alittle bit more where you're
headed obviously you weretalking about some of the new
destinations you're looking touh introduce but as we talk
about technology I would love tohear a little bit more about the

(01:41:38):
platform where you're headed andhow you're looking to grow this
business over the next year.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41:42):
Alright so I think there's um a lot of initiatives
um there is um you know thecustomer front um the staff or
logistic application and youknow the the overall 26
dashboard to to monitor thecomplexity of it all to
orchestrate everything um so theorchestration part really relies

(01:42:04):
on a super advanced data modeland my inspiration has always
been Snowflake you knowobviously you want something
that's super agile.
You're a data person yeahSnowflake for sure it's always
been my inspiration from the youknow from the first you know day
I built all the way it wasalways my inspiration.
So we've always had that superagile approach around data and

(01:42:27):
data model and you know thequality um you can you know you
can tell you're doing AI butunless you have quality well
structured that it is nothing.
For um everything the toolswe're building for the staff for
the ground handlers for thelogistic companies for
everybody's you know for thepeople handling um we are like a

(01:42:50):
DMS delivery management systemand you've seen a lot of the
initiatives in the logistic techworld and definitely again as a
retail person I was reallyinspired by um you know the
delivery management system outthere.
You know Brains is one of myinspiration.
So that's it.
And we've been using the latesttool in AI for route

(01:43:12):
optimization, for staffallocation.
We do logistic under constraintsbecause you have a flight you
have a train there's so manyparrot maybe the weather so many
parrot to cover and to give itto the staff in a very simple
way.
My co-founder Julien always saidthat you want it to be like a a

(01:43:33):
game for kids you know you wantto make sure it's it's super
simple big buttons clear colorcodes the the user interface is
um a lot of what we do so youmight think that it's super
fancy to work on the tech on thebackbone but the user interface
brings sometimes as much valueas what's you know beneath or

(01:43:57):
below I don't know how to sayand when it comes to customer
facing um uh applicationsobviously we all know it's gonna
change you know tomorrow voiceis gonna come uh the way we
interact with the way customerinteract with our services our
brand will change tremendously II could see uh it's gonna change

(01:44:20):
um a lot in the coming uh monthsand coming years so I think
we're trying to be verypragmatic on the front and what
I'm very focused about ismessaging.

SPEAKER_10 (01:44:30):
Clearly we are operating in a space where
anxiety is uh is predominant soyou want to make sure that
you're being very transparentyou are clear about the tracking
you are clear about uh theexpectation the context to
provide as much information touh to the client and that you
know will stay well one of thethings you also are addressing

(01:44:51):
is the guest experience and ifyou're elevate the guest
experience and it becomes now anexpectation uh if you're guests
who have traveled with a groupto Paris and have experienced
all the way as in like your baggets all the way to your room or
gets all the way back to theairport um all the way that
branding obviously reallyresonates once you've had that
experience you're gonna wantthat consistently um I love that

(01:45:13):
you love the name to well it'sjust like because that is like
one of the things I love aboutmarketing is when you can convey
the the feeling that you getwhen someone experiences your
product or your service.
And then also if you can deliveragainst what your unique selling
position your USPs are.
And that's something that's allstood out to me and clearly
obviously your background notonly in marketing and data but

(01:45:36):
with L'Oreal and known consumerproducts speaking in a language
consumers can understand.
So some of the things youhighlight is reducing cues,
increasing revenue streamliningoperations like it's very clear
what the value proposition isfor why someone would use all
the all the way and my specificquestion on that as we uh
prepare to close and I want tomake sure that people can reach
out to you and get inform moreinformation.

(01:45:56):
But I'd love if you wouldn'tmind sharing what you've seen
from the businesses since thisis a B2B podcast.
A lot of hotels listen to ourpodcast and uh when they're
thinking about a solution likethis, what has been some of the
upside that you've seen forcompanies that have partnered
with you that has you knowdelighted their guests or you
know enhanced revenueopportunities.

(01:46:19):
Tell us a couple of examples ifyou wouldn't mind I think that
would be really interesting forour audience to hear.

SPEAKER_02 (01:46:23):
Yeah I mean it it it has been great to work with
airlines, airports and hotels onthe different value unlocks.
So for airlines um and airportthe biggest uh value is gonna be
around um customer satisfactionand operational efficiency and
then revenue generation customersatisfaction every rating showed

(01:46:46):
that we are 4.9 out of five soat now we're creating a real
ancillary product that peoplelove they really love either
because time is money they wantit to go faster to where they
needed to go or because mobilitywas an issue you are uh people
with reduced mobility you are asenior citizen you are traveling

(01:47:09):
with a lot of bags um the factthat the airline can provide a
solution is is really augmentingthe sentiment the positive
sentiment with the uh airlinethe other KPI that um we've been
tracking was operationalefficiency and it really depends
on destination but for someroutes especially from afra to
and from Africa we could reducethe waiting time by 40% and we

(01:47:36):
had different metrics but mostlyum it has been improving
considerably the life of peoplethat were checking at homes or
checking through at the arrivalbut also of the staff the
airline staff that was just youknow processing the the the the
the clients at check-in and thelast KPI I'd like to share um is

(01:47:56):
around revenue generation.

SPEAKER_10 (01:47:58):
Wanted to uh to discuss too much but basically
uh revenue management teams fromthe airline we partner with have
seen a a significant increaseonly also because we are a
completely new it's pureincremental we are a new
category leader uh in terms ofancillary so we all we're
bringing is is additionalrevenue for the airline yeah

(01:48:19):
it's really exciting and I knowmany of our listeners will be
keen to reach out to connectwith you obviously I've
mentioned the website all theway dot IO and uh Emily Gazot
who uh is on LinkedIn I'm justgonna rather you have to share
your name and identity I'll justquickly highlight so Emily is E
M I L I E and Gazot G-A-Z-E-A-U.

(01:48:41):
I'm not saying it nearly asnicely as your name should be
pronounced en francais but I didwant to say enchanted merci
beaucoup is wonderful to meetyou.
But yes tell our listeners howelse they can connect with you
after this Emily.

SPEAKER_02 (01:48:53):
So thank you very much Dan for having me and
giving me this opportunity tolet uh let you know about what
we're doing.
If you'd like to reach out ifyou're an airline an airport and
a hotel and you're strugglingwith your clockroom please reach
out to me.

SPEAKER_10 (01:49:06):
It's eGazzo e-g A C E A U at all the weight dot Io
fantastic and I wish you greatsuccess in both Canada and the
US and your travels and just toclose where's next for you after
this what's the next big traveldestination for you and your
husband or for the family?
What's up next?

SPEAKER_02 (01:49:25):
Well going to Edge super exciting oh amazing okay
you're gonna love that yeahthat's fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (01:49:30):
Well have an amazing trip and good luck with
everything you're working on andlook forward to keeping in
touch.
Thank you very much Dan our nextguest is the very first chief
prevention officer that I'veever had the privilege to
interview on our travel trendspodcast.
Her name is Dr.
Yvette Pegis I had a chance tomeet her yesterday and I was so

(01:49:51):
fascinated by our conversationaround accessibility and really
the need to address that in thetravel industry.
And so I wanted to bring her onthe podcast To talk about what
brings her here to AFA, herbackground.
Uh so Dr.
Ovet, welcome to the TravelTrends Podcast.

SPEAKER_16 (01:50:07):
Thanks for having me.
This is awesome.

SPEAKER_10 (01:50:09):
Well, tell everyone a little bit about your
invisible disability group andthe organization you're
associated with first.

SPEAKER_16 (01:50:16):
I will.
I'm excited about your invisibledisability group because what it
offered me is what I didn't haveafter suffering a traumatic
brain and spinal cord injury.
So what we do is we provide abridge for newly disabled and
diagnosed persons who don't knowwhat to do after they've had a
life-changing event.

SPEAKER_10 (01:50:35):
And one of the things that really stood out to
me, because I know that um it'sbeen eight years, and clearly
you then have the differenceunderstanding of what travel was
like before, and now you see theall the challenges are very
evident to you.
So tell me, and I would love forour listeners to hear,
especially all of our colleaguesthat work in the travel
industry, that don't understandthe experience of being a

(01:50:58):
disabled person trying totravel.
And also one of the things I'dlove for you to share, too, that
we got into a bit yesterday, ishow big a market this is for,
you know, from a commercialperspective, to be able to make
sure that you can bring theseclients into your travel
experiences.

SPEAKER_16 (01:51:13):
100%.
I love that question.
I had never seen someone travelwith a disability and in a
wheelchair until I had to do it.
So I'm the first person I knowtraveling in a wheelchair.
And even now, all these yearslater, I live with travel
trauma.
Every single time I know that Ineed to get on an airplane, it's

(01:51:36):
all the planning and thecontinuity of care because
sometimes I have an okay travelexperience, and sometimes I have
a really bad, painful,physically, emotionally, and
financially painful experience.
And it doesn't even matter if Istay on the same airline, it
really just depends on theindividuals who are working that

(01:51:58):
shift.

SPEAKER_10 (01:51:59):
And for you, obviously, travel was clearly a
passion before and continues tobe, and now you can you you can
lead the charge for those peoplethat uh that want to be able to
travel and will be able to bebetter empowered to travel by
the results of the efforts thatyou're uh advocating for.
So tell us a little bit moreabout what brings you to AFA and
your role now in the industry.

SPEAKER_16 (01:52:18):
Thank you so much.
I'm a chief prevention officer,and the reason why that's
important to me and yourlisteners is because I work with
airlines, airports, and highlyregulated programs and companies
to help prevent what happenswhen someone with a disability
travels and it doesn't go well.
In this day and age, it eitherends up on social media or it

(01:52:41):
ends up in the news or it endsup being something that affects
and damages the um the brand,basically.
And uh I say all the time abrand is built in drops and lost
in buckets.

SPEAKER_10 (01:52:57):
Yeah, very true.
And I know you do a lot ofspeaking, so I obviously one of
the uh benefits of having youhere, but you're also, and this
is where there's so many aspectsto your role.
But actually, before we do that,let's talk a little bit about
your invisibility disabilitygroup.
And it's I want to make sure allof our listeners know it's your
invisibility disability.com soyou can learn more about the

(01:53:17):
organization that you're a partof.
Um, and obviously there's anexecutive team, you are uh very
much the um uh the ambassadorand you know the uh the the one
that's out there speaking onbehalf of your invisibility
disability group, but alsoadvocating for the industry.
So tell everyone a little bitmore.
I know you guys have been aroundsince 2014, and obviously that's
a little bit more than 10 years.

(01:53:38):
When did you join and how has itevolved since you've become a
part of this organization?

SPEAKER_16 (01:53:43):
So the great thing about it is we just wanted to
help.
And what happened is as westarted to help more people,
they wanted us to speak and talkabout disability and advocate
for disability.
And so people did not understandthat there's 61 million

(01:54:03):
Americans with disabilities, andthe power we have as this
largest group of individualswith disabilities, the largest
market, and eight trilliondollars in disposable income was
the power that we had that Iknew nothing about until I
jumped into this role.
And and of course, I roll, but Istill use I still use all the

(01:54:28):
walking terms.
But as we started to fight foraccess, we started to recognize
the barriers that were there.
I tell the story that I wasinnocently ignorant because this
community is not just amazing,but it's huge, it's powerful,
and it's one that anyone can umshift or pivot into at any point

(01:54:49):
of their lives.
There's no other people groupwhere you can um, you know, uh
have an accident, you can have atemporary or a permanent
disability, and aging isprobably the largest number of
people within this disabilitycommunity because at some point
our bodies will age.
In fact, they call thiscommunity not yet disabled, or

(01:55:12):
you know, like we'll get theresomeday.

SPEAKER_10 (01:55:14):
Yeah, well that and that is the truth of it.
And you're high highlighted animportant point there is that as
the aging now boomer populationuh gets older, all of a sudden
they are gonna have disabilitiesand they're gonna need extra
help and support to be able to,and they're gonna be keen to
continue to travel as well.
And so one of the things I wouldlove to hear from your
perspective that would again bereally valuable for people in

(01:55:36):
the travel industry, and we wetouched on this um when I was
interviewing the VP uh seniorvice president of a technology
company that is um Vespero thatis very focused on people who
have uh who are blind um or haveuh issues with sight and how
they navigate booking a trip.
And so when it comes to someonewho's in a wheelchair and uh

(01:56:00):
companies that are trying toensure that someone who has a
disability like that feelswelcome when they go to their
website.
And so, what are the signalsthat you're looking for that you
now like?
So and I the reason I asked thisvery specific question, I think
that it's sometimes it's becausepeople are not informed, which
is obviously why being able tohear from you is so important.

(01:56:20):
Um, but also most people arejust motivated by doing the
minimum standard of what theyneed to do to meet regulations,
yes, not realizing that there'sa big commercial opportunity
here if they get this right.
So, what are some of the thingsyou would be looking for?
And that can be even the visualsor the branding or the wording
and the copy to make itaccessible.
And also I want to talk to youabout inclusivity as well,

(01:56:42):
because that's another importanttopic that I feel like has has
faded in the last year, givensome of these events that are
happening around the world, thatbut it's still so important.
So, but let's talk aboutaccessibility first, and what
are some of the signals youwould be looking for that would
be helpful for our listeners tosay, wait a second, I need we
need to update our website andupdate our messaging?

SPEAKER_16 (01:57:01):
Well, no, those are great questions.
I'll start with accessibility byjust saying words matter.
And that sounds so basic, butwhen I go to your website, of
course, I need to know that Ican access all of the uh pieces
and parts of the informationyou're placing.
It has to be in a commonlanguage that everyone can

(01:57:22):
understand.
Um we can't use a whole bunch ofacronyms, right?
Um, we have to be able to makeit easily visually.
Um, there are different umtriggers there for someone who
might be side impaired or blind.
So we have to use all the rightcolors, of course, and every
website needs to be WCAGcertified.
There is a minimum requirementby law to make sure that your

(01:57:47):
digital storefront is just asaccessible as your physical
storefront.
So if I go to a website, I needto be able to access and you
know consume whatever product orservices that are there.
But if I can't see it and Idon't know where it is, and if
the language is offensive andnot inviting, then I won't be on
that site very long.

SPEAKER_10 (01:58:07):
Yeah.
No, I appreciate you sharingthat because again, this is
where I want the industry to beable to improve and make sure we
embrace people withdisabilities.
And one of the things I had saidto Avet yesterday that I'm very
committed to doing is actuallyan episode on accessible travel.
And I was telling Avet that Iwas just in uh at rendezvous
conference, and the CEO ofDestination Ontario was in a
wheelchair, and she washighlighting to me the

(01:58:28):
difficulties of accessibletravel.
And and I said, actually, thisis a topic uh there are a number
of startups now like Wheel theWorld and others that are
getting investment for the rightreasons because they're
unlocking a big businessopportunity.
And this is a conversation thatneeds to come to the forefront.
And so I'm very committed tohaving that, and I'm gonna have
uh Dr.
Avet uh Pagis back for thatconversation.

(01:58:49):
So this is this is this is thebeginning.
But the one other thing I wouldlike to touch on too um is the
inclusivity because Yvette waslike my son is here with me, and
Yvette got a chance to meet himyesterday, and you made his day
yesterday because you talkedabout your niece.
And I would love for you toshare the story of your niece
and what uh what uh her role atDelta because it's such an

(01:59:09):
inspiring story, and you kindlyconnected my son with her so he
could learn from her journey.
Yes.
Um but uh you're you know you'rean incredible spokesperson for
accessibility, but alsoinclusivity, and to but tell
everyone about her role.

SPEAKER_16 (01:59:22):
I love that question because it does speak to
inclusivity because she's ayoung woman of color who's a
captain for Delta, she's beenflying since she was 15, and she
brought my kids in pretty earlyto learn about the flight
industry because it's such anincredible industry.
But the fact that she was ableto fast track to become a

(01:59:44):
captain, and the fact that she'steaching other women and young
people that, you know, being apilot is cool.
You know, it's not somethingthat we should um ignore as a
possibility.
And learning to be a pilot orgoing into flight school doesn't
mean you have to be a pilot.
There's a lot of aviationpositions out there, but the

(02:00:05):
fact that Captain Anya Kearnscan be that image, that person,
and still be really cool andconnected to the community is
great for her.
It's great for Delta, and it'sgreat for the industry.
So I'm super proud of her.
And um, she's super excitedabout helping and supporting
those who show interest.

SPEAKER_10 (02:00:24):
Well, no one thing I just wanted to underscore as a
reaction from my son is that hewas like, oh my god, oh my god.
She's like, he with as he wasdiscovering more about her and
her profile.

SPEAKER_11 (02:00:33):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (02:00:33):
And you know, to be a female in that industry um is
one thing, because even when heregistered for his program, it's
less than 10 or 20% or femalethat are going to aviation, less
of color, and then someone torise up to be captain.

SPEAKER_11 (02:00:46):
Right.

SPEAKER_10 (02:00:46):
And one of the things that you had highlighted
to us is that you know she'sunder a great deal of pressure
in that role to to then, youknow, because then she's held
such a high standard, andpeople, you know, people can be
critical of people who putthemselves out there.
And so you also need to havebroad shoulders when you do
that.
It's not about and she's doingit for all the right reasons.
And I was just I anyway, I foundit really inspiring, and I just
wanted to share that so you knowthat other people like my son

(02:01:08):
can be inspired by your niece.
And it's so cool that youobviously you come from a
family.
I when one of the things thatstood out to me, and I was
thinking about this last nighttoo, is just how positive you
are.
And I was so looking forward toour conversation this morning,
and I said that to Dr.
Vett before we kicked off.
I'm like, this is theconversation I'm so looking
forward to today, because youreally brightened my day, and I
was looking forward to gettingmy day started with you.

(02:01:29):
How do you keep so positive andlike and you're you know, you
are so well dressed, you're sowell spoken, you just like and
you just radiate light andposity.
And I'm like, so, but I'm surejust like your niece also, you
know, has tough days too, andpeople will criticize or
challenge, and obviously youhave tough days as well.
What keeps you motivated?
What keeps you so upbeat andhaving such a wonderful outgoing

(02:01:51):
personality?

SPEAKER_16 (02:01:52):
You're good at this.
That's such a good question.
Um, it's my faith.
I really have to put Christbefore my crisis, and I struggle
with crisis from the moment Iwake up because you know I have
invisible and visibledisabilities and multiple
abilities.
So I live in chronic pain.
I function in a wheelchair, I'mactually tethered to your power

(02:02:13):
connection because my battery onmy wheelchair is low, and I live
in that world, and I feel likethat's not gonna change.
So why should I?
And I try to remain as positiveas possible and make sure that
every interaction um blessespeople.
I want to leave the room betterthan I found it.
Why even leave the house?

(02:02:34):
And there are days when I can'tleave the house where the pain
is so great that I can't leavethe house, and I won't leave the
house because I'm just not in aposition to really um affect the
world, my clients, and peoplelike yourself and your son in a
way that changes their day orthat moment.

SPEAKER_10 (02:02:54):
Well, another thing I want to talk about too, and
that's very inspiring, and Iappreciate you sharing that
because obviously it's you knowit's very personal.
And um, I did uh, you know,looking at your background, uh
note you're a person of faith,and I have the greatest respect
for that.
And obviously that's one of thethings that absolutely has to be
but when there's somethinggreater out there, and it's just
done and and how we've ended upin the circumstances we are and

(02:03:16):
how we make the most of it.
Um, and so you're you're doingthat a more and clearly having
such a positive benefit on manypeople.
And so one thing I want to makesure that we uh do for you on
this podcast is that uh we havea lot of travel advisors, tour
operators that listen to ourpodcast.
So I want to talk about yourtravels and some of the places
you want to go next, especiallygiven you're such an amazing

(02:03:37):
speaker, and certainly peoplelistening to this may decide to
bring you into their conferencesor when they read a little bit
more and all of a sudden theylearn just like you know, and
have the same feeling I havehaving uh met you and seeing you
again.
Tell us a little bit about whereyou've traveled and some of the
places you're still really keento go.

SPEAKER_16 (02:03:54):
That's an interesting question.
So the program that I work withis, you know, called From Curb
to Cabin.
And um, the reason that'simportant in that question is
because I'd love to go tosomeplace like Australia or
Dubai, but because airplanes arenot accessible, the lavatory
anyway, is very inaccessible.

(02:04:16):
I am afraid to travel that far,but I really, really want to.
So I would definitely figure itout.
Uh, I've had the opportunity towork with Boeing and a lot of uh
and a lot of other airplanemanufacturers who are doing some
pretty cool things in the nearfuture, and I'm also working on
a lot of equipment that I canuse, um like an exoskeleton that

(02:04:39):
would make something like thatwork for me.
So I just feel like those arejust incredible places.
I have been to Egypt.
Uh, we had our honeymoon inEgypt.
I was walking, of course, butthose are the places I'd love to
go only because as an IBMengineer, I traveled 90% and I

(02:05:01):
was on the plane all the time,which is kind of a benefit to me
because I know what it lookslike to travel walking as
opposed to rolling.
But being able to go to allthose places made it important
for me to go to exotic placeslike the wonders of the world
and places that are just not ascommon.

(02:05:21):
I'm not an Anya or Captain Anyabecause she gets to go
everywhere and she enjoys herlife and she works hard and
plays hard, but the places, someof the places she's been has
just been uh just incredible.
Um, you know, one more quickthing.
I didn't learn how to swim untilafter I became disabled.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_10 (02:05:41):
Amazing.

SPEAKER_16 (02:05:42):
So I'm engaged in about 25 different adaptive
sports.
So I'd love to go somewherewhere I could scuba dive some
really exotic and incredibleplace.
So anything wet, I love watersports.

SPEAKER_10 (02:05:56):
So I'm putting this challenge out to all of our
listeners globally, and uh andI'm specifically calling out
Emirates or Qatar because it'sone of those, you know, when you
look at the experience of thefirst-class cabins when you have
your own shower and your ownbathroom, that should be the
experience for you traveling,and especially with your
husband, you know, the two ofyou being able to have that, and
going through Dubai as a hub toAustralia, you could do both in

(02:06:19):
one epic trip.
So let's let's let's see whathappens.
I'm gonna put it out into theuniverse, and uh, but I would
love nothing more uh to see thatopportunity for you.
And you know, even now justhearing you know you've been to
Egypt, and this is where youknow you knew what it was like
to travel before, and youobviously love travel, and so
the opportunity that theseplaces will open back up to you
because for me, I love travelingto Australia, and it's one of my

(02:06:41):
favorite places.
I lived there for a few years,and I would I would spend a few
months of the year there everyyear because I love Australia.
And so for me, like you sayingthat, like you have to get to
Australia, you absolutely needto get there.
And so uh I hope that is one ofthe outcomes of our conversation
today.
But uh, to bring us back to AFA,Miami, what brings us here?
I would love to hear a littlebit about your experience since

(02:07:02):
we're here on the second day ofthe conference.
What have been some of thebenefits of being here?
Obviously, this is a hugehighlight for me um having this
opportunity to speak to you.
But what have what are some ofthe benefits of being here this
year?
What are some of the thingsyou've learned, some of the
insights of the sessions you'veattended?

SPEAKER_16 (02:07:16):
Well, first of all, you're asking me that question
after bringing tears to my eyesis so not fair because you're
right, that would be a dreamcome true.
So just thank you for evenputting that out there.
As far as day two, what I'mlearning is that Terrapin and
this conference provides for mea couple things.

(02:07:37):
I don't know that I've seenanyone else here in a
wheelchair.
I'm in a wheelchair that alsohas seat adjustments, so I sit
at about five foot three, maybefive foot four, because my chair
elevates and it climbs stairsand it does all these really
cool things.
But I just think visually havingsomeone here in a professional
capacity in a wheelchair isinclusion in its in and of

(02:08:00):
itself.
Hearing some of the airlines andairport executives talk about
inclusion and accessibility isum something I think your
listeners should be proud of andshould be excited about.
I will say we're not all the waythere, but my being here and
having others approach me, umhaving some of my clients here,

(02:08:23):
being able to coach and haveconversations with them is gonna
be really exciting.
I'm gonna be on the keynotestage probably in about an hour
or two.
So I'm gonna get to have thisconversation a little bit more,
as I mentioned, the curb tocabinet process that we have,
just to make sure that it's notjust on paper.
This is real.

(02:08:44):
They're like I travel about 40%now.
So to speak with someone who'sactually doing the travel, to
encourage them to have an ADAcommittee at their airports,
encourage them to show inclusionin their airlines and have real
people inform them on uh, youknow, using tools like AI and

(02:09:05):
being able to innovate withpeople with disabilities in mind
and to recognize, and I don'tknow how much people want to go
this deep, but to understanddisability history, you know,
just the fact that we havesmartphones and typewriters and
curb cuts and power doors toknow that 90% of innovation was

(02:09:25):
created for someone who couldnot access the world otherwise,
and to think that these thingsexist not as a barrier, but as
an opportunity to includeeveryone.

SPEAKER_10 (02:09:36):
Fantastic.
And I'm gonna attend yoursession, I'm not gonna miss
that.
That'll be another highlighthere from the event.
And I mean, uh, I want to makesure though, just as we close
off, that all of our listenerscan connect with you.
Obviously, mentioned your name,Avet Pigis, and I just want to
make sure I spell that out foreveryone so you can find uh Avet
on LinkedIn.
So it's Avet Y-V-E-T-T, and thenPigis is P-E-G-U-E-S.

(02:10:01):
Is that the best way for peopleto connect to you?
LinkedIn, email, what would bethe best way for people to reach
out and get more informationabout the organization and to
connect with you?

SPEAKER_16 (02:10:09):
Another great question.
I'd love to give your listenersa gift.
And if you'd like, I can get youa link to um to my page.
I have a hub um that anyone canjoin and jump on and talk about
these things and to be able toshare this information, not just
the disability community, butcommunities who want to interact

(02:10:32):
with this community.
So I will have a link that I canshare with you if you want to
add that to your show notes toaccess me directly.
But LinkedIn is the very bestway to connect with me.

SPEAKER_10 (02:10:42):
Fantastic.
We'll definitely add that intothe show notes.
And I also just wanted to finishby saying that, you know, in
season eight, we'll be doingthis special episode.
We'll have uh Dr.
Yvette back for that.
So a real privilege and an honorto meet you here.
Thank you for making the timefor us.
Thanks for everything you'redoing in the industry and
wonderful to meet you and goodluck today.
And I look forward to keeping intouch.

SPEAKER_16 (02:11:01):
Yay, thank you for all you do.
This has been amazing.

SPEAKER_10 (02:11:05):
Our next guest here live at the AFA conference in
Miami is Ryan Jones.
He's the Senior Vice President,Global Accessibility of Strategy
and Advocacy at Vispero.
And I was talking to a few ofhis team members, and I was
really keen to introduce andbring Ryan onto our podcast in
this special episode becausewhat they do and his background

(02:11:26):
is really unique andinteresting.
But Ryan, first of all, welcometo Travel Trends.
Thanks so much for joining us.
Thank you, Dan.
It's uh an honor to be here.
I'm glad to join you.
Wonderful.
No, it's the honor is all minehere, Ryan, because I think what
Vespero does and your specificrole I find really fascinating.
Let's let's give our listeners alittle bit of an overview of
Vespero and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_24 (02:11:44):
Absolutely.
So Vespero is a global company,and at at the brief synopsis is
we help make the digital worldaccessible for people who are
blind or have low vision.
So we do that in severaldifferent ways.
We build software.
That allows people who are blindor have low vision to interact
with the computer.
So we build software that canmagnify the screen, and we also

(02:12:08):
build software that can readinformation on the screen out
loud.
So we have customers in prettymuch every country around the
world who use our technology tolive their lives, whether it's
they're in education,employment, whether they're at
home, doesn't matter.
We make sure that people can usea computer so that they can live
the life that they want to live.

(02:12:28):
And then we also help companiesmake their technology, whether
it's websites or mobile apps orself-service kiosks, we help
companies make their technologyaccessible to people with
disabilities.
So there are different types ofstandards out there that if you
build a website with the certainstandards or a mobile app, then

(02:12:49):
it will be usable by people whouse the different types of
technologies that people withdisabilities have.
And so we kind of come at thisfrom a couple of different
angles, but um you know we'rewe're especially focused to make
sure that people who uh areblind to low vision or have any
disability for that matter caninteract with the digital world
that we're all so immersed inthese days.

(02:13:11):
That's great.

SPEAKER_10 (02:13:11):
Thank you for sharing that.
And for all of our listeners toothat are a multitasking, uh,
Vespero.com is V I SP-E-R-O.com.
And I think now all of ourlisteners can better understand
why I was so enthusiastic abouthaving you on the podcast and
having this conversation isbecause you know it certainly
finally accessible travel hasgotten the attention that it's

(02:13:33):
deserved for so long.
From a commercial point of view,I think the realization with
companies like Wheel the Worldthat are focused on people with
disabilities.
And depending on you know howyou look at the metrics, you
know, 10% of the population oras much as 25% of the population
has some form of disability thatimpacts them from traveling.
And I think all of our globallisteners know that I'm such an
advocate for travel for all theright reasons, all the wonderful

(02:13:56):
benefits that travel provides tous, and obviously we don't want
to leave anybody behind.
And it's become more and moreclear to me in the last few
years the limitations that existfor people with disabilities.
And so one connection I wantedto make with our listeners,
Ryan, and uh I did make sure weuh just before we started
recording is that um you areblind.

SPEAKER_24 (02:14:16):
Yes, that's right.
I I have very little sight thesedays.
I grew up, I had low vision whenI was younger.
I could read large print books,I could uh you know see colors
to some degree, but uh for aboutthe last 25 years I can only see
light and dark shadow.
So I I live this world.
Uh it's both my profession andmy personal life because I also

(02:14:37):
deal personally with theconsequences when the world is
not very accessible.
And so I love being a part of acompany in an industry where
we're trying to make the worldthat I personally live in as
well more accessible.

SPEAKER_10 (02:14:49):
Yeah, well, let's talk about your role.
Obviously, I shared your title,you know, being responsible for
strategy and advocacy.
So those things obviously standout to me.
But given that you are blind andyou work for this organization
that clearly has a veryimportant mandate to create
opportunities for people withdisabilities, um, blind being
one of them, but also um peoplewho are in a wheelchair or

(02:15:09):
people that are uh hard ofhearing.
And so tell us a little bitabout your role, because clearly
you're advocating for everyone,uh including people who are
blind.

SPEAKER_24 (02:15:17):
Yeah, I've been uh fortunate to be with this
company for about 20 years nowin a variety of roles, but uh
currently I'm focusing on ourglobal strategy around how we
view accessibility.
And that's a it's a very it itsounds kind of ambiguous, and in
some ways it is, but the goal isfinding how we position

(02:15:37):
ourselves as a company to betteruh influence whether it's
private industry, government,education, whatever it is, how
do we better influence the worldto become more accessible?
And especially with theproliferation of AI, that's sort
of taken on a whole new meaningas well.
But I do a number of things.
I also work in businessdevelopment here at the company

(02:15:58):
and just trying to be out thereuh helping people realize there
are gaps in the world andespecially around the digital
side of the world, which ischanging faster than anything we
could ever imagine.
Uh I want to be on the leadingedge to help people recognize
where there's gaps, and then toalso recognize that there are
ways to fill those gaps and wecan help them do that.

SPEAKER_10 (02:16:17):
Well, let's tell everyone what brings you and
Vespero here to AviationFestival.
I know, as you mentioned, you doa lot of work with government
and but as far as the airlineindustry and airports, obviously
that stands out to me as twoareas that could definitely
continue to improve to servepeople with disabilities.
Yeah, but tell us what bringsyou here to AFA.

SPEAKER_24 (02:16:35):
One of the things that we've seen over the last
few years, and and and mepersonally, because I do travel
quite a bit for work andpersonal, but also us as a
company, the the shift inaviation travel to digital
experiences and not only justaviation, but really probably
any aspect of travel, the shiftto focus on the digital
experience is massive.

(02:16:57):
I mean, uh if I just kind ofthink about aviation for a
minute, try going through anairport and uh start paying
attention to all the differentdigital interactions that you
might need to have, whether it'slooking up the parking
information on the airport'swebsite before you even arrive.
Obviously, airlines booking yourtravel, managing your trip.

(02:17:18):
When you get there, you'reyou're you oftentimes you need
to check in for your flight viaa self-service kiosk and use the
backdrop kiosk, the wayfindingkiosks, the uh food and
beverage.
You try going to uh most of thestores and airports now have
self-checkout.
Some of them don't even havepeople that work in the stores.

(02:17:39):
I I was in Las Vegas Airport notlong ago, and they've got
several locations there wherethere's not a person there.
It's only self-checkout.
And so digital interactions areare accelerating in the aviation
airport sector, and so we'rehere to try to help the industry
make that technology moreaccessible, and we build tools
and provide services to helpthat.

(02:18:00):
So we're here at the show reallyto talk about what we do, help
uh airports recognize where theymay have challenges and that we
can fit in to help them, andalso you know, others in the
industry.
We we've had a lot of niceconversations today with other
vendors who are buildingpassenger-facing technology and
and had not really consideredthe accessibility aspect of what

(02:18:22):
they're building.
So it's it's it's been reallygood to have these conversations
and help people recognize thechallenges and opportunities.

SPEAKER_10 (02:18:30):
Yeah, that's great.
And that's one of the reasonsthat I certainly wanted to have
you here on the podcast.
And we're actually, depending onwhen someone's listening to this
and the sequence ofconversations, this is actually
going to be a theme that we'regoing to focus on with a few of
our guests, and also that we'regoing to look to bring into
season eight of our podcast aswell, because we have not yet uh

(02:18:50):
focused on accessibility.
We've had people that are uhwork in uh various areas of
travel but never really kind offocused on it.
And so you obviously being anadvocate, not only are you
making people making ourlisteners aware of it, you're
making people aware of it hereat the conference.
And so just to highlight thechallenges that do exist.
So if you wouldn't mind sharing,um when you think about

(02:19:12):
obviously you were justhighlighting with airports and
and uh airlines, um, but acrossthe travel industry, what are
some of the uh biggestchallenges that you're coming up
against that you're seeing thatlimit people with disabilities
from being able to travel?
And what are some of the most uhcompelling ways that you're
seeing companies address that?
And obviously that's I know whatFisparo does, but yeah, if you

(02:19:34):
wouldn't mind, just because Ithink it would help open not
only my eyes, but our listeners'eyes and other people that are
running businesses to wait asecond, we're not serving a
large portion of an audiencethat could travel with us if we
presented these opportunitiesdifferently.

SPEAKER_24 (02:19:47):
Yeah, no, it's it's a good question.
So if you if you kind of thinkat the basic level, it it really
starts at the beginning of atravel experience, which most
likely is planning andpurchasing some sort of tickets
or reservation, whether it's acruise, whether it's an airline,
a bus tour, train, whatever itis, the barriers start at the
very beginning.

(02:20:08):
And you there's been standardsaround building websites
accessible for for severaldecades now.
So what I'm talking about is notnew to the world.
It's just a lot of times in thetravel sector, it's not thought
about.
And so when you look at findingtickets, when you look at

(02:20:28):
checking an itinerary, if if Iwant, if I'm traveling to you
know, some airport or some newcity for work, first thing I've
got to do is go online uh andand buy tickets.
And and so when that websitethat I'm using, whether it's a
travel aggregator, whether it'sdirectly through a
transportation provider, whenthat website is not accessible,

(02:20:48):
when I can't use it as someonewho's blind because it wasn't
built with the properaccessibility standards, if it's
not usable, then I'm alreadydone before I even get started.
Because now I've got to go findeither someone else to go buy
that ticket or maybe try a phonesystem, you know, purchase a
ticket through a phone, which ishit or miss these days.
So it starts at the verybeginning and then it only

(02:21:11):
continues from there.
So when you look at managingyour itinerary on a mobile app
or a website, or if I uh my wifeand I have found that we really
love cruising.
And so, you know, when you'replanning out all of the
excursions on the cruise app, ifall of those things aren't built
with the right standards to makethem usable, then I don't have

(02:21:32):
an I don't have a part in doingthat now.
I'm gonna have to depend onother people to do those things
and manage my itinerary and mytrip for me, which is not
something you want from anindependent perspective.
So it really starts at the verybeginning of the phase.
And then of course you get intothe physical side.
You know, are the facilitiesaccessible for someone with a

(02:21:52):
mobility challenge?
Um the good news is from thatperspective, we've had laws in
the US and in most othercountries for many decades now
around physical accessibility.
Where we see a lot of room toimprove is on the digital side,
because you digital really isonly in the last 25 to 30 years
that it that it's been asignificant player in our lives.

(02:22:15):
And so there's a lot of catch-upwork to do from that aspect, but
it's only going to continue togrow.
And as you mentioned, you kindof alluded to earlier, Dan,
there's a ton of spending powerby people with disabilities from
a travel perspective.
I mean, billions and billions ofdollars out there, and as the
world continues to lifespansoften are increasing, people are

(02:22:37):
living longer, they have income,they have uh the opportunity to
travel, but you they're dealingwith certain types of
disabilities as they age more,whether it's macular
degeneration, whether it'sdiabetes, whatever the situation
is, people are dealing withvisual impairments and and it
but at still health and agelevels that they can be active

(02:22:59):
participants in society andcertainly from a travel
perspective.

SPEAKER_10 (02:23:03):
Well, you mentioned a number of really interesting
things there, and I want to goback to where you started that
answer with when you talkedabout the fact that there has
been these standards around fordecades, and you're absolutely
right.
I think one of the frustrationsthat I've had when we look at
websites is is still a perfectexample, even though yes, people
are using websites less and lessin the face of AI, but let's
look at that as a good case inpoint, is that when these

(02:23:25):
government regulations came into make sure that you had uh
accessible well, moving beyondguidelines is something that
actually had teeth and it wasactually enforceable, which is
sometimes necessary to move theindustry forward, when the
industry is not focused on thecommercial benefit, they're
focused on being penalized orbeing fined if they're no if
they're not serving travelerswith disabilities.
And so uh the reason I wanted toemphasize that is because I

(02:23:48):
think what many people, myselfincluded, you know, building a
website, is you're trying tomeet the minimum standard to
make sure that, you know, theseguidelines that have been
produced, that you are makingsure that you are um obeying the
regulations that exist.
And and obviously that's to me,and this is where I say I think
it's a bit of a um a failing ofthe way that many people, and I

(02:24:11):
say include myself, withapproaching this, is that if you
don't really understand thechallenges and and design for a
great guest experience, and umand obviously the focus for so
many businesses today is youknow designing an optimal user
experience.
And I know some of the work youguys do is on you know with
screens and how people will needto interact.
So if at the very but when itcomes to websites, this is I'm

(02:24:32):
coming to a very specificquestion here since most of our
listeners have a website fortheir travel business.
What are some of the things youwould like to ensure that are
there to actually welcome you tothat business?
What as opposed to what are uhkind of essential guidelines?
What would be the things you'dencourage people to make sure
they're doing?

SPEAKER_24 (02:24:50):
Yeah, I think it's a very good point about you can
shoot for the bottom rung of theladder and hit it and still have
a terrible experience.
So I've definitely seen that.
We we have a phrase that we usein the industry that says
accessibility does not meanusability.
Um you have to be more than justaccessible to be usable.
There's there's a differentstandard there.
So, you know, things that that Imight look for would be you can

(02:25:14):
tell as a user of assistivetechnology, and I am obviously
because I'm blind, you can tellright away if a website or a
mobile app has consideredaccessibility in their design.
Because you notice things likethe images all have uh
thoughtful labels on them.
So that you think about anexample, a screen reading
software like what we developedthat reads information, it it

(02:25:36):
doesn't necessarily interpretpictures.
Now, thanks to AI, we have theability to do that to some
degree.
But when you come across animage, whether it's a logo or a
picture of someone enjoying uh abeach scene, whatever it is,
this the software has to read adescription that was provided by
the website owner.

(02:25:57):
And it's very obvious when youcome across sites that you can
tell people have put thoughtfuldesign around it, when the menus
of the site are fully accessibleand work with the keyboard.
So many people uh use keyboardsinstead of a mouse to interact
with a website, for example, ona computer, whether that's
because they have a visualdisability or because they have

(02:26:19):
a mobility disability, whateverit is.
Uh those are just simple things,labeling of images, labeling of
form controls.
And then you you can tell aswell because the whole process
will be usable.
One thing that's very obvious iswhen a website might maybe the
home page seems reasonablyaccessible, but then you go to

(02:26:40):
book an itinerary, and thecredit card flow where you go to
enter your information all of asudden breaks and doesn't have
accessibility.
So now I've spent two hours onthe site looking up an
itinerary, picking my flights orwhatever travel experience.
I'm happy with it, I'm ready togo, and I get to the last step
and I can't pay with my cardbecause the fields are not

(02:27:02):
labeled.
So I don't know, am I supposedto put my credit card number in
this box or is that where thename is supposed to go?
And so it like the whole thingjust breaks down at the end.
And obviously that'sfrustrating, and now you've lost
my business, but it's veryevident that the company's not
really thinking aboutaccessibility unless the whole
passenger flow or the whole flowof what you're doing actually is

(02:27:23):
accessible.

SPEAKER_10 (02:27:24):
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Obviously, you addressed two bigpain points the opening and the
closing.
And so is this site for me or isthis app for me?
Those are you know, you shared afew valuable insights there, and
then obviously trying toactually get someone to pull out
their predicate credit card andactually make a booking, which
is that critical phase thatwe're all trying to optimize
for.
And so now let's bring it backto Vespero and what you guys do,

(02:27:47):
because what obviously we areaddressing there is like what
are you know bringing the bar upfor anyone that is just trying
to meet minimum standards.
But clearly what Vespero isdoing is trying to set the
standard.
I don't want to call it the goldstandard because I don't want to
think it's something that peoplecan't live up to.
But the reality is that you areintroducing tools and the
assistive technology software,because I was going through your

(02:28:08):
website in advance of usspeaking, and and one of the
things I was keen to understandis you know these terms you have
like JAWS, fusion, zoom text,um, and how they apply.
So if we talk about for someonewho doesn't know much about
Vespero, aside from maybe nowchecking out their website, um
what are some of the tools thatyou offer and what are the ones

(02:28:29):
that are particularly effectivefor the travel industry?

SPEAKER_24 (02:28:32):
So if you think about it from the end user side,
so that's tools like youmentioned, JAWS, which is our
screen reading software.
So that's geared for someonelike myself who has very little
functional vision.
I can't see what's on thescreen, no matter how big the
print is.
Doesn't matter, I can't see it.
So that's where the JAWSsoftware is going to be reading
that information andinterpreting and verbalizing to

(02:28:54):
me what's on the screen.
Um, and then our Zoom text andfusion software provide
magnification, so we can changethe color combinations of the
screen, make the mouse pointerlarge, do various things for
someone who has some level ofvision, but not enough to see it
without uh some visualenhancements into it.
So that's the tools, or thoseare the tools that people use

(02:29:18):
who are end users who areprobably consuming the travel
industry or looking to bookexperiences.
Um and so we develop all thattechnology.
Our goal there is to make thattechnology smarter, make it
easier for someone who's blindor low vision to interact with
the digital world.
But then to your point aroundthe standards, we also work with

(02:29:38):
the enterprises, so with thecompanies who are building those
experiences, whether it's theairline or whether it's a uh a
cruise ship or whatever kind ofentertainment or industry it may
be, we're trying to make surethat not only do they meet the
standards, so we can help themcheck the boxes to stay, to say
you meet all of the differentaccessibility standards, but

(02:30:00):
then we're gonna help you go astep above that.
And yes, here's where you meetand where you don't meet the
standards.
And where you might not pass ormeet the standards, we're gonna
help you figure out how to doit.
Because it's not enough to justtell someone something's broken.
We need to tell you how to fixit and how to fix it in the most
appropriate way.

(02:30:21):
So I think one nuance to this,there are some types of
standards out there that areblack and white.
It's either a passfail.
In accessibility, there's a lotof subjectivity in this space.
So if I I use the exampleearlier of an image.
If I don't, if I have images onmy website and they're not
labeled, the standard says Ineed to label them.

(02:30:41):
Well, what should I label them?
How should I write thedescription?
That's where the subjectivitycomes into play.
So you we as a company whospecialize in this space would
give you guidance to say youneed to put descriptions of
these images, and here's sometips on how to do it so that
it's most effective for a blindtraveler, for example.
So it's trying to help go abovethe minimum, make it a good user

(02:31:03):
experience.
You know, I think one of thethings that I'm encouraged to
see in the last few years is uhcompanies, especially in the
travel space, are focused moreon that customer experience.
They're not talking just aboutdo we meet all these different
guidelines?
And that's outside of the boundsjust of accessibility, but
they're they're recognizing tomake more money to serve more

(02:31:24):
people, we need to have a goodexperience, and so we can help
them do that.
And I'm encouraged at thatbecause typically you the c the
conversations were only aroundhow do I how do I meet the
lowest minimum standard?
What's the lowest rung of theladder?
Let me get there and then forgetabout the rest.
And and now I see more interestin saying, yeah, I want to be, I

(02:31:45):
want to meet the standards, butI want to actually do better
than that.
And I had a great conversationwith someone today, an airport
person around that topic, andand and so it's it's just
encouraging to hear peopletalking that way now.

SPEAKER_10 (02:31:56):
For sure.
And I hope with thisconversation for myself and all
of our listeners is it reallydoes shift everyone's focus on
the the priority around thisfrom being kind of the what
essential must-have um to reallywhat is uh gonna unlock
significant opportunity for fortravel business.
And on that note, I've got twolast questions for you.
Uh the first one is you know,we're here at Aviation Festival,

(02:32:20):
of course, and you justmentioned about airline
partners.
When you look at the travelindustry beyond airlines, what
other verticals do you see?
I mean, hotels of clearlyobviously that's a great um uh
the great opportunity there,just given the physical
presence.
Um what other areas of travel doyou think have the most
opportunity to benefit fromreally understanding

(02:32:42):
accessibility?

SPEAKER_24 (02:32:43):
I'll tell you from a personal angle, one of the ones
that I've really connected withover the past few years is the
cruise industry.
And certainly the cruiseindustry is exploding right now.
But one of the reasons that Ifind it so attractive as someone
with a disability is you knowwhen I go to different cities,
you have to learn your wayaround, you have to find all the
transportation, you have to findyour way to the restaurant and

(02:33:03):
maybe get an Uber or a taxi, allthose logistics come into play.
When I step on a cruise ship,it's all right there.
And once I kind of learned thelayout of the cruise ship, I
know where everything is.
I know where the restaurants arenow.
I can walk to everything, it'sall right there in a very closed
uh environment.
And so to me, that's kind of anuntapped area, especially in the

(02:33:26):
blind and low vision side.
And I've met every cruise I'vebeen on, I've met someone else
on that ship who was blind orlow vision.
And all we all kind of say thesame things of like once you
recognize that cruising isactually a really accessible
experience because everything isright there for you, and there's
people everywhere if you needhelp with something.
So that that's one of the ones Ireally see opening up.

(02:33:48):
I I think in the other angles ofthis, anything around that
includes transportation isvaluable.
Yeah, one of the biggestbarriers for people with
disabilities, and in particularin the blind and low vision
space, is travel.
And so whether it's you I'd lovegoing to Europe, for example,
because there's trainseverywhere and I don't have to
deal with the situation of uhyou know long travel via uh Uber

(02:34:10):
or something or getting a ridefrom someone.
So travel, like the thetransportation aspect of this, I
think is really critical forpeople with disabilities as
well.

SPEAKER_10 (02:34:20):
Thank you, Ryan.
I want to make sure I'm suremany people listening to this
are now keen to connect with youor learn more about Vesparrow.
Obviously, I've mentioned thewebsite, but what would be the
other ways to connect with youand the team?
I know you guys are based herein Florida, not far from us
where we're here in Miami.
But what would be the best waysto connect with you and the
team?

SPEAKER_24 (02:34:37):
Yeah, if anyone wants to reach out and have a
discussion with me, uh uh myemail address is R Jones.
That's R-J-O-N-E-S at VesperoV-I-S-P-E-R-O.com.
Please reach out to me.
Please go to our website.
You can learn about what we do.
You can book a meeting with someof our team that can talk more

(02:34:58):
about what we do, but anyone canemail me as well.
We're a global company, so mostof us actually live in other
places.
I personally live in Kentucky.
We have a team all over theworld, so we're very focused on
doing this at a large scale.
Uh so you're for listeners whomight be in Europe or Asia or
other countries, continents,that those are places that we
also work in and are familiarwith how to how to deal with

(02:35:21):
accessibility on a geo, uhgeographic level.

SPEAKER_10 (02:35:25):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Ryan.
A real pleasure to meet youhere.
I certainly wish you and theteam every success in the year
ahead.
And and uh I look forward tokeeping in touch, and we'll have
you back on the podcast again atanother point later this year.

SPEAKER_24 (02:35:35):
Absolutely.
Thank you, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (02:35:39):
My next guest here live at AFA in Miami is Chris
Brown, who is the chief productofficer at Bona Fide, Bona Fide
AI.
He kindly spoke at our AI Summitlast year.
I was delighted that he wasgonna be here at the event, and
I'm thrilled that we get achance to sit down and speak to
each other again.
Chris, welcome back to TravelTrends.
Hey, thanks, Dan.
It's great to be here.
And I was really excited notonly that you're gonna be here,

(02:36:01):
but I know the plug and playteam uh was here as well.
Amir, who will be on thispodcast as well, uh, is a good
friend to us both.
And you guys represent the SanFrancisco tech scene.
I know you've got a new hirecoming in as you are here for
this conference.
But for our listeners that arenot familiar with Bona Fide,
give everyone a quick overviewof the company and what you guys
do.

SPEAKER_07 (02:36:19):
Yeah, uh thanks, Dan.
Uh Bona Fide is really focusedat helping uh travel brands and
travel suppliers positionthemselves and participate in
the coming wave of AItechnologies, especially around
uh direct bookings and beingable to book stuff uh uh when
travelers and guests uh use AIas part of their travel journey.

(02:36:43):
So we're very focused on makingsure that uh AI is getting
information about the supplierscorrectly, about their products
and services correctly, abouttheir trips, about their
destinations, about their hotelscorrectly.
And that's both focused atensuring the external models
like ChatGPT and Gemini aregetting this correct, as well as

(02:37:03):
any internal use cases thatthose companies might be
developing as well.
Cool.

SPEAKER_10 (02:37:08):
And the one thing I wanted to call out when I first
spoke to Chris was, I guess,about a year and a half ago, the
plug and play team uh where Iserve as a mentor had reached
out uh with the idea ofconnecting uh Bonafide to travel
trends, and I was I was superexcited because I'd already
heard about Bonafide, so I wasreally keen to meet Chris and
get to know more about whatthey're working on.
But anyway, I share this withour listeners is that we I
whenever I'm getting uh readyfor a call, I'm obviously doing

(02:37:29):
my research and my background,so I'm on bona fide.ai, your
website.
And I started to tell you alittle bit about what I knew
about the company.
You're like, oh, you looked atour website, that's totally out
of date.

SPEAKER_07 (02:37:38):
We're we're now up to date, and then we just
relaunched our website.

SPEAKER_10 (02:37:42):
So that's my first question for all of our
listeners.

SPEAKER_07 (02:37:44):
Is if they look at the website, is that what you do
now?
Is that the right thing?
Uh the website is current, yeah.
We just launched, uh we justredid the website, we launched,
uh, and we have a website teamnow that's working on it.
It's current.
That is the speed of the valley.
That is the speed of the value.
Websites cannot keep up with thepace that you guys are moving.
It well, it wasn't, right?
And so um it is it is movingvery fast, right?
And and uh, you know, somethingthat that comes out every week,

(02:38:06):
there's something new that wehave to keep up to.
And you know, my background isin deep tech and machine
learning and artificialintelligence, and it's hard to
keep up.
And and we're invited to placeslike uh the Aviation Festival to
speak.
We're not speaking at this one,but we're invited to speak.
And the first thing I telleveryone is take a deep breath.
We're all in this together.
No one knows what's going on,everything's moving so fast.

(02:38:26):
That's the first message I haveto all the executives.

SPEAKER_10 (02:38:29):
Well, that brings us on to why we're here and what
brings you to AFA, obviously.
I'm thrilled that you are, and Iknow how much potential your
platform has in the travelindustry, but I understand you
are taking more of a focus on uhaviation and working with
airlines.

SPEAKER_07 (02:38:43):
Yeah, aviation and and we've been engaging with
some airports as well.
Um, but but the aviation issomething that that is uh still
not represented well in thelarge language models.
They're still getting a lot ofinformation wrong.
There's still um the travelplanning is not where everyone
wants it, despite everyone usingthese tools today.

(02:39:04):
And so we're we're out hereengaging with the the industry,
the airlines to try and uh helpthat out, make make that whole
experience, the travelerexperience, that when people are
using these large languagemodels better, more accurate,
just overall less sucky.
Yeah, which we definitely need.

SPEAKER_10 (02:39:24):
There is a lot of suck out there, that's for sure.
And the focus of a lot of theseconversations is how do we make
it suck less, right?

SPEAKER_07 (02:39:30):
That's right, yeah.
And we we everyone wanteveryone's on the same team
here, right?
We want it to be a goodexperience, right?
And this is one of the I thinkthis is we've been talking about
it in the industry for a longtime, but but we actually have
an opportunity to get to hyperpersonalizationalization, right?
For for real this time.
Yeah, I know we've been talkingabout it a long time and we've

(02:39:51):
had some uh starts and stops todo it, but this time it's it's
looking like we can do it andthe the technology's there.
Our focus is largely on thedata, and the data's not there.
Yeah, and so we're help our ourbig focus is getting the brands
ready for their data, connectingall the uh uh backend systems of
record to provide that data.

(02:40:11):
And and the next push in thenext uh you know year or 18
months is going to be to getmore real-time data in so that
you can actually do bookingsthrough the through the large
language models.

SPEAKER_10 (02:40:24):
And the reason I mentioned that it was a great
panel at the end of the day,which had our friend Amir on
there, but also Mitra from FocusRight, who moderated the panel,
did a fantastic job.
Uh, but they had David Brem,who's the venture partner at
Thayer.
So obviously, Thayer is a big uhinvestor in the travel space.
An investor of ours as well.
Oh, good to know.
Okay, perfect.
And then uh Lawrence, she's apartner at AE Industrial

(02:40:44):
Partners.
I wasn't familiar with her, butshe spoke really well on stage.
And anyway, they werehighlighting the ways that the R
industry can improve.
And Amir made the joke that,like, I guess we're kind of
stuck with the cabins that wehave.
Like that part is like of thejourney.
We're just kind of stuck withthose are our seats.
That's the cabin experience.
Um, you know, you can improve somany different aspects of the
journey.
But let's let's I want to makesure people know the types of
clients you work with becauseI'm sure as people are listening

(02:41:06):
to this, and obviously, as youwell know, Chris, from being
part of our AI summit, we have aglobal audience, uh, travel
advisors, tour operators, andand certainly airlines and
hotels, investors, mediapartners.
I want to make sure that ourlisteners know if they're a fit
for Bonafide and what sort ofclients you're looking to
partner with.
And then I want to come back touh the aviation space in
particular and the new teammember that you've just brought

(02:41:27):
up.

SPEAKER_07 (02:41:28):
Yeah.
Uh so we we our customers arethe full gamut.
So we work with uh you know verylarge travel suppliers.
And sorry, I'm I can't mentionnames because I don't know if we
have the ability to say that.
But we work with very large uhtravel suppliers, so very large
uh uh aviation companies,airlines, hotels, all the way

(02:41:48):
down to uh very small, smallthings, individual properties,
individual hotel properties.
And really our product is set upto um really help them uh curate
and orchestrate their data tothe large language model.
So um we can take uh a wideswath of people in the travel
space, uh, not just aviation,not just hospitality, but anyone

(02:42:11):
adjacent to it.
We work with um a tourismorganization's DMOs as well.
Um so anyone who just wants tobetter elevate their positioning
and their participation in thatwhole LLM AI ecosystem.
Very cool.

SPEAKER_10 (02:42:25):
And let's cut back to uh aviation, because
obviously when you look at thetravel industry, and I'm saying
this, I think most of ourlisteners are familiar with the
way the industry breaks down,but aviation is the largest, and
then hotel aviation hotels arekind of, and that's the reason
OTAs and like when you look atthe size of those sectors,
they're massive.
And so there's companies thatjust focus on aviation, and we
see a lot of those here,technology, and there's a lot of

(02:42:46):
companies that focus onhospitality to massive sectors.
And obviously, when yourinvestors are looking at your
addressable market and trying todecide where you're gonna go
next, it's always a bigquestion.
Yeah.
Um, so let's talk about theaddressable market for aviation
and airlines and the fact thatyou've brought on a new GM.
Emily.

SPEAKER_07 (02:43:01):
Yeah, yeah.
So we're we brought on a new GMto manage that vertical, and she
has she comes uh with a wealthof experience from the airline
uh industry, working for uh mostrecently Vuelling Airlines, uh
low-cost carrier out ofBarcelona, Spain.
Um, and she's she's joining us.
Uh and the the addressablemarket here is obviously huge.
Yeah, right.
It's a worldwide market, um, anumber of brands, a lot of stuff

(02:43:25):
moving in the industry rightnow.
Um uh but everyone um from thetime we started to now, everyone
is very focused on AI.
And everyone is is okay, how arewe now gonna use this
technology?
And it's gone from uh somethingthat people are using to where
we see it's going is theairlines are managing this as a

(02:43:46):
new distribution channel.
And that's a a cataclysmicchange for the for this
industry, right?
So it's it's uh we're seeingtraffic shift from the general
e-commerce uh to uh now trafficis coming through um through the
large language models.
Um people are touching it.
We know it, we've seen uh withour customers, we see a uh uh

(02:44:08):
tick down in a tick down in theregular uh uh e-commerce
channel, and we're seeingcustomers arrive at the airlines
uh portals through um throughthe large language models.
And what we're also seeing is alot of people doing research on
large language models and thenclicking direct to that.

(02:44:28):
So so we're seeing a lot less ofum things coming from Google and
other, you know, meta search andand other areas, and now coming
direct and through the largelanguage models.
And so that's gotten theattention of the industry, and
now they're starting, you know,we've been saying it for years,
this is coming, this is coming,this is coming.
There's no way people are notgonna use these tools more and

(02:44:49):
more.
It's the they're not gonnadeepen and and it is coming, and
now now it's caught caught thenotice of the executives, and
now we're seeing a change wherewhere uh our customers are
setting up channel management toaddress these channels.

SPEAKER_10 (02:45:03):
One of the things I also want to call out for our
listeners to separate the signalfrom the noise, which is one of
the big focuses for us on thispodcast, I want to alert our
listeners to something with BonaFide, which is, and this
highlights why I was so emphaticabout seeing Chris and having
him part of the podcast, is thatthey were awarded the best
startup plug and play last year.
They want to focus right uh top25 hot startups.
Uh, they're even recognizedrecently by Amadeus Aventures.

(02:45:26):
And so, and I know they're onthe cusp of another funding
round, which is absolutelysomething that Chris cannot talk
about.
Um, but it gives you an idea ofwhere this company is headed.
And then here's my directquestion for you, which is given
you worked in the hospitality,you're getting into aviation,
one of the things that aviationis specifically feeling acutely
is the uh rising fuel prices.
And so, my question to you whenit comes to AI and how you're

(02:45:48):
gonna help companies, people aretypically looking at it either
as cost efficiencies or they'relooking at revenue
opportunities.
And I know with hotels, you guysare very focused on upside
revenue.
When it comes to aviation, is itboth?
And or is is there a focus onimproving operational efficiency
using Bona Fide?

SPEAKER_07 (02:46:06):
Uh it's it's both, but mostly it's about revenue,
um, revenue for the airlinesbecause there is a shift going
to this channel.
The first movers are gonnabenefit greatly by by doing that
and understanding that that thetraveler journey to buying their
tickets now includes the largelanguage models where they're
they're asking deep granularquestions and they're making

(02:46:28):
selections based on informationthat wasn't available to them in
the past.
Uh, and so we see the definitiveadvantage for all of the travel
brand brands to start gettingthis data out there.
It has an ancillary effect oflook, if if you just have more
data out there, you become morevisible to the large language

(02:46:49):
models.
If you're more visible to thelarge language models, you're
being recommended more.
Yeah.
And so you have to design yoursystems and your approach to
this channel about being a partof that conversation wherever
the traveler is taking thatconversation.
And that's different.
It's no longer the you know daydated search type thing or just

(02:47:11):
the you know the origindestination pairs that's driving
it.
But it's a whole conversationalthing that is that has to be
supported for for the traveler.
And the people that understandthat and are moving in that
direction are going to be theearly winners in this.

SPEAKER_10 (02:47:27):
Yeah.
So this discoverability, as youabsolutely rightly point out,
Chris, and look at focus rightstats from the last three months
and what Mike Collette and theteam have pulled together, which
clearly indicates that when youlook at generative AI planning
tools, that the usage went from30 to 40 to 56 percent over the
course of three quarters.
Uh, what's really interestingabout that though is that when
we look at the stock value andthe revenue of companies like

(02:47:49):
Google and OTAs, is that peopleare still booking through their
traditional channels.
My overall um sense on this, andI mentioned this on stage
yesterday, I did a panel with uhOne World, American Airlines,
and Sierra AI.
And obviously the biggerairlines can't project too far
forward uh because they have tobe mindful of that.
So I just took the lead and saidone of the things I think, um,

(02:48:10):
and we can test this theory overthe next 12 months, and even six
months are now we're togetherfor our AI summit, is that I do
believe that agentic tools willeventually the dam will break on
booking.
Yeah, and it hasn't yet becausepeople don't trust these tools.
They use them for planningpurposes, but they're not ready
to give the credit card andallow them to make that booking.
And once that happens, andespecially with conversational

(02:48:33):
AI, as you well know, peopleactually talking to their
phones, which um all of a suddenthere it is possible to book a
flight in 90 seconds using yourvoice, but people are not
willing to do it yet.

SPEAKER_07 (02:48:43):
They aren't.
Yeah, yeah.
And so so the the trend still isis I I take that conversation
and that planning so far, andthen I click out.
Yeah.
Right.
And that's what we're seeing.
That's gonna go away eventually.
I think you or I are on the samepage.
How that's gonna be done, Ithink is up in the air, but it
but for the travel suppliers,and it doesn't really matter,
right?
That's coming.

(02:49:03):
You need you need to be able tosupport it.
Um, and and everything you do tosupport the current current
trend of of um going through thetravel planning and then
clicking out, that's gonna bebeneficial in the future too.

SPEAKER_10 (02:49:17):
One other thing I want to ask you is where you're
headed with Bonafide, and then Iwant to make sure that people
can connect with you and theteam.
So as we talk about the futureand where the industry is
headed, one of the things that Ialways find fascinating is that
startups, and this was one pointI did share uh yesterday on
stage, when I asked the uh kindof incumbents on the next 12
months, the response was it'slargely baked in, which I
thought was an interestingresponse is that like, well,

(02:49:39):
people are expecting somethingdifferent in 12 to 18 months
from now, and a lot of thingsare going to change.
So I asked Christina fromSierra, given you're a startup,
it is difficult for incumbentsto move quickly.
And even in the opening session,uh uh Ule from One World, the
CEO, was talking about, youknow, there's been 27 years, and
he's like, if we see significantchange in 27 months, that's real
progress for us.
And you come from the completeopposite.

(02:50:02):
The world that our website wasupdated last year.

SPEAKER_07 (02:50:03):
Our business changed in a week and our website needs
to catch up.
I know.
It's it's like I I don't knowanyone who's who's like like can
with a straight face say likethings are gonna be the same,
largely the same in a year withthe speed at which we're moving,
right?
Like, like if if you look back ayear, we're we're three
generations of large languagemodels away from a year ago.
Totally, yeah.
Right?

(02:50:23):
I mean, you think of what whathappened, they like just just
with uh the on the tech side,right?
You have the agentic commerceprotocol, UCP come out, um uh
OpenAI go into like we're gonnado transactions directly in Chat
GPT to pulling a little bit backfrom that.
And then Google, who wasn't onon their uh kind of on that,

(02:50:45):
wasn't on their roadmap.
Now they're saying they'rethey're gonna try and do it.
Um and the the big barrier wesee is is data.
You need to get the data andinformation there.
And what we see in the next 12months is going to be a big push
to to um orchestrate the datathat's gonna be important for
that.
So that's the real-time data onavailable availability rates and

(02:51:06):
inventory, getting that in thereand just that rapidly changing
things.
Uh as you know, you know, rateschange you know intraday.
Um uh um uh the the price ofhotels rooms often change
intraday.
So how how is how is that gonnaget supported across the
industry when you have uh 80,000hotel rooms just in in the
states alone, uh changing theirprices multiple times a day,

(02:51:30):
right?
That's a hard problem that thethe tech stack is is not great
at supporting in the way thatthe large language models uh can
support today.
So that that I think we're gonnasee in the next 12 to 18 months
is being able to have the largelanguage models support that
real-time ARI information.
And that's the next step thathas to fall before we can do

(02:51:53):
that direct booking within thelarge language models.

SPEAKER_10 (02:51:55):
Well, and I want to encourage all of our audience to
follow the journey of Bona Fidebecause you guys are definitely
have been ahead of the curve andcontinue to be.
So even as we have thisconversation and then people
start following not onlyyourself, but obviously Leighton
Hahn, the CEO who's been on ourpodcast as well.
You know, you've got an all-starteam, Tom Underwood, um, and you
obviously know this industry andclearly are bringing on talented

(02:52:16):
people that also understandaviation.
And so there is this connectionbetween having the straight
relationships, understanding howthe industry works, and then the
technology.
And that for me is like wherethe magic happens and you see
companies that really start totake off.
And um, and so definitely I wantall of our listeners to follow
your journey.
So let's make sure we tell themthe best ways to do that.
And one last thing I will saybefore I throw it over to you

(02:52:37):
for the last word is and I'venever asked you this, but um,
one of the things I love aboutyour website is the fact and the
branding of Bona Fide is theborder collie.
Yeah.
And I'm a huge dog lover.
Many of our listeners know.
If you follow me on Instagram atDC Trips, half the pictures of
of my uh of my dog.
And I love the whole thing aboutlike our pack is always growing,
you got all these pictures ofdogs, and like, and for me, and

(02:52:59):
even the idea of taking a demo,you're like, take us for a walk.

SPEAKER_07 (02:53:01):
And I'm like, so I love the branding, it speaks to
me.
It's it's great.
Like uh, that was Leighton'sdecision.
And uh when we were puttingtogether Bonafide and what were
we gonna do for the branding, uhwe had a lot of discussions
around it when we were startingup, but that was one thing that
Leighton came out and said,We're the dog.
Yeah, yeah, there was nodiscussion.
It was then and does he have aborder collie?
Is that what I did?

(02:53:22):
He doesn't have a dog, yeah,which is surprising.
This is his his butt.
But yeah, like uh and and he wasright.
He was like, people he said,like people are gonna remember
this.
This is kind of a risky thing,as you know, pets and travel
too.
Yeah, like sometimes that'shard.
There's a friction there.
There's literally two startupslike Woofair.
There's a couple of likepositive boards.
Exactly.
So no, you're you're ontosomething.

(02:53:43):
Yeah, I know, but uh, but uh andpeople love it.
And and we brought on uh uh TimSullivan, who's doing our go to
market, uh former uh CEO at uhSendine.
And so he's he's been pushingthat and he's been brilliant at
like getting the dog out there.
And uh our dog's name isBoltzmann.
Um so that's awesome.
Yeah, so he's been doing a greatjob at getting Boltzmann out

(02:54:04):
there.

SPEAKER_10 (02:54:04):
Oh, that's great, man.
Well, I know you're on LinkedIn,and uh so people could obviously
find you, Christopher Brown onuh on LinkedIn and um obviously
the bonifide.ai.
Um, I'm obviously thrilled tosee your continued success.
I can't wait for the next bigannouncement and some of the new
partnerships, and obviously it'sgreat to meet the team as you
guys continue to expand.
I look forward to uh being apart of your conference in July.

(02:54:26):
I know it's an invite-onlyevent, so we won't promote it uh
publicly, but nevertheless, Imean, this is where you guys are
hosting these events, bringingthe right people together to
have the conversations aboutwhere the industry is headed.
Yep.
And so, yeah.
Uh any other final words fromyou of our words of wisdom or
advice here, Chris, for ourlisteners?

SPEAKER_07 (02:54:42):
Um, yeah, like like I said, like we're all in this
together right now.
Things are changing rapidly.
Uh the best thing you can do tothe executives out there is uh
speak to your colleagues, speakto your your staff.
Uh everyone's learning at thesame time.
And uh uh, you know, the the waywe're gonna get through this uh
as a as an industry is helpingeach other out.
Rising tides lifts all boats.

(02:55:03):
Totally agree.
It's gonna be a fun journey.
Yeah, awesome.
Thank you again, Chris.
Great to see you.
Thank you so much, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (02:55:10):
Our next guest is Samir Khan.
He is the founder and CEO ofTrip AI.
Samir, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_03 (02:55:17):
Glad to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (02:55:18):
Where are you based?

SPEAKER_03 (02:55:19):
I'm based in Dallas, Texas.

SPEAKER_10 (02:55:21):
All right, so not too far from here.
You're still of the south.
My son was saying on the wayhere, he's like, What do you
like better, East Coast or WestCoast?
And I'm like, I think I like thesouth.
I think I like Florida, Texas,because it was a beautiful
sunshine.
I was like, I don't considerFlorida the East Coast.
I consider Florida part of theSouth because it's uh, you know,
it's great almost likeyear-round.
Um but anyway, tell us aboutTripAI and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_04 (02:55:42):
So TripAI is an AI uh company focused extensively
in aviation travel, solving veryspecific use cases, and one of
them being fuel efficiency,sustainability, and operational
efficiency.
So our marketing pitch really ishelping.
Airlines one dollar uh onedollar to fifty dollars per

(02:56:04):
flight.
Got it.

SPEAKER_10 (02:56:06):
And how long have you been at this?

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:07):
Um I've been at it for uh full time for two more
than two plus years.

SPEAKER_10 (02:56:12):
Good for you.
And um obviously since the youknow it's we're kind of we're a
little more than three yearsinto this whole generative AI
era, and now we're in this verymuch agentic AI.
Um tell us a little bit aboutwhat brought you to AFA.

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:25):
Yeah, so I've been a um uh since starting my
entrepreneurial journey, I'vebeen a visitor or I've attended
pretty much every AFA, also theWorld Aviation Festival.
I think it's a great uhopportunity to connect with the
airline industry leaders.
And um it's it's a short haulflight from Dallas to Miami.
That's always easy.

SPEAKER_10 (02:56:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
And uh so just so our listenersknow too, um, with Trip AI, are
you guys exclusively focused onairlines and aviation?

SPEAKER_04 (02:56:54):
So we're focused on aviation and travel, so that
includes uh hotels.
We're doing some work there umin the AI space, but our primary
focus right now is reallyairlines.

SPEAKER_10 (02:57:05):
Cool.
And so tell us if you wouldn'tmind sharing some of the
airlines you work with.
And clearly you've obviouslybuilt some partnerships off of
this conference.
So I'd like yeah, I'd love to,if you wouldn't mind
highlighting some of the clientsyou have.

SPEAKER_04 (02:57:16):
Yeah, one of the recent uh pilot programs that we
did is with Azul Brazil, uhhelping them in uh fuel
efficiency space.
We have been working withAirlines Reporting Corporation
in the sustainability space forthe past three more three years.
Uh and we continue to evolveright now.
We we're talking to manyairlines in Europe.

(02:57:37):
Uh I I would say that um there'sa lot of traction for our fuel
efficiency and sustainabilitysolutions.
We expect to work more withEurope and with North America
and with the big airlines inDallas and Atlanta.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (02:57:52):
All the big hubs, right?
And are you guys connected toplug and play as well?

SPEAKER_04 (02:57:56):
Yes, fantastic.
So we are a plug and playenterprise AI in travel and
hospitality alumni.
So you were recently at theSilicon Valley, and we completed
a plug and play uh cohort inDallas, Texas with a local team.
Uh fantastic program.
Love the energy in SiliconValley that brings all the
entrepreneurs together.

(02:58:17):
Huge investment capital flowingum in Silicon Valley.
Um but yeah, it's it's been a uhamong all the pro uh among all
the programs in recent months,plug and play enterprise A has
been fantastic.
Yeah, it's opened a lot of doorsfor us already.

SPEAKER_10 (02:58:32):
I'm a huge fan of plug and play, and some of our
listeners may know that I uh I'mone of the mentors of plug and
play, and I've been involvedwith plug and play for uh seven
or eight years, I think, veryhighly of Amir uh Amidi, who you
and I were chatting withyesterday at the end of uh day
one of the conference.
He spoke on stage and had agreat uh panel, lots to
contribute.
And he was talking about therecent investment in Pintours,

(02:58:53):
and Lou from Pintours had done aspotlight episode on our
podcast.
It's so exciting just to see thecommunity come together for an
event like this.
And I'd I'd love to hear fromyour vantage point.
Clearly, you've been to other uhthe World Aviation Festival.
What are some of the benefitsfor people who've not been to an
AFA uh event before, what aresome of the benefits?
What would be some of thehighlights you'd share that

(02:59:14):
might be of interest to peopleconsidering attending next year?

SPEAKER_04 (02:59:16):
Absolutely.
So this is my third AFA.
Um I like the uh the fact thatit's a smaller conference.
It's uh it's in the it's in acity which is accessible, very
easy to get to Miami.
And then uh the airline, verytypical uh North America, South
America, a lot of the airlinesthat are potentially that you

(02:59:37):
can connect very quickly are allhere.
So smaller conference, verydirect for entrepreneurs like us
who are disrupting in the traveltechnology space.
Um I would say that's a pro.
And then uh connecting to Miamiis always great.

SPEAKER_10 (02:59:53):
Exactly.
What an amazing city to host aconference in, especially being
in South Beach or the MiamiBeach Convention Center.
I discovered that last yearbecause whenever I've come to
Florida for conferences, I'moften in Orlando or Fort
Lauderdale, rarely ever inMiami, and certainly not in
South Beach.
And I booked a hotel right nearthe conference center, and I had
no idea how cool South Beachwas.

(03:00:14):
I drove through it, but actuallystaying here and being a part of
this community, it'sunbelievable.
We went out to the Mango's lastnight, and uh Mango's is like
the it's like a Latin uh danceclub, and we were invited out
for a partner dinner, and Ibrought my son and opened his
eyes to a whole in a world thatexists of like business dinners
because there was bottleservice, and it was like it was

(03:00:34):
a fantastic night out uhconnecting with colleagues and
uh but it was also a culturalexperience because it only in
Miami is a place like thatexist, like right in the heart
of South Beach.
And um, and so yeah, it's one ofthe things that only when you
come to a conference in reallife do you get to have those
experiences.

SPEAKER_04 (03:00:50):
Fantastic.
Yeah.
This time I wouldn't be going tothe beach.
It's been a little bit of ahectic for me.
But uh, but previous trips toAFA definitely taken a you know
uh a trip to the beach.
Um I'm flying back to Dallas afew hours.
Uh but yeah, this is a fantasticplace to be.

SPEAKER_10 (03:01:07):
Awesome.
Well, let's talk about wherethings are headed and some of
the trends you're seeing in theindustry.
So I guess first off, tell us abit more about what your plans
are for Trip AI over the nextsix to twelve months as you
continue to expand partnershipswith airlines and and the across
the travel industry.

SPEAKER_04 (03:01:21):
So uh we're basically uh going to expand our
team.
So that's our immediate needthat we are going to expand our
team to go into more beyond thecommercial airlines, go more in
the cargo airline space, whichis a big potential for us.
So that's like all the you wouldsay all the uh Amazon Airs,
you'll see all the UPS FedEx,private jet aviation, um, that's

(03:01:46):
a market for us.
And then uh importantly from aninvestment perspective, we are
seed fundraising.
Uh that's that's the immediatefocus, and we're looking for
seed fundraise in the next sixmonths.
And then 2027, we're looking ata series A funding to keep
going.
Fantastic.
And we like to expand uh from aplatform perspective, we'll like

(03:02:08):
to expand into other interestinguse cases where AI and
operational intelligence isdirectly proportional.
That's where I see us in thenext 12 to 18 months.

SPEAKER_10 (03:02:18):
Fantastic.
And then let's talk about theindustry and where you see
agentic AI and AI being applied.
What are the best successstories you've seen today, and
where do you think this is goingin the next, say, six months?

SPEAKER_04 (03:02:29):
Yeah, so agentic AI is extremely uh good for certain
use cases, uh potentially notgood for like safety and
operational efficiency is notthere where I can tell where I
can convince that an agentic AIapplication would handle some of
the operational stuff.
Um I see um I'm uh I speak a lotin Dallas areas and AI

(03:02:51):
conference, and the one thing Ican tell you, HR departments
highly disrupting with agenticAI.
The day-to-day activities liketravel agency, travel agent type
functions, highly disruptive.
That's where you'll see agenticAI becoming really like your
travel agent, uh, like planningyour trips, being more

(03:03:12):
comfortable.
That's where I see it's headed.
I still see in aviation andtravel uh because it's so
complex.
Um, and my background comes fromflight operations at Saber, uh
distribution at Saber, spent 15years at Saber.
I think it's still a time whereAgenTKI will really come to
aviation and travel, especiallyoperational efficiency.

(03:03:34):
But yeah, uh travel agency,TMCs, Agentik AI will disrupt.

SPEAKER_10 (03:03:39):
Specifically uh airlines, or like do you have a
view on what vertical is gonnahave the biggest impact?

SPEAKER_04 (03:03:44):
I think uh airlines, some areas, yes.
Uh I see more on the traveltechnology side, like
hospitality, I see in hotels,okay, operational efficiency,
which is not really highly uhsensitive from a data
perspective.
Like I'm talking aboutautomating Excel sheets,
automating these pricing trends.

(03:04:05):
You you gotta have agents forall of that stuff.
So there's uh so one of uh areasthat I see is also aviation
data, right?
That sits in Excel sheets today,many of it.
Yeah.
Um so eventually I see that uhthat's where it's a low-tech but
high impact type impact.
I you got uh all your data inExcel sheets, and Agentic AI is

(03:04:28):
right there to automate that,getting data from multiple uh
sources to bring the connectedintelligence together.

SPEAKER_10 (03:04:36):
Fantastic.
And I want to make sure that ourlisteners can find out more
information on how to connectwith you guys.
Tripai.io is the main website,as I understand.
Um clearly people can connectwith you on LinkedIn, but what
would be all the the best waysto follow your journey given
that you obviously are gonnahave investment, more
partnerships, you're gonna besharing what you you know what
you're developing in this space.
So yeah, what would be the bestway for our listeners to connect

(03:04:58):
with you?

SPEAKER_04 (03:04:58):
The best, uh follow me, uh follow us on the
LinkedIn, like our page.
We've got a LinkedIn presence,uh follow me on the LinkedIn
site, and uh happy to answer anyqueries.
Uh if there's an interesting usecase which you feel is
disruptive in the airline andtechnology space travel space,
happy to give advice or happy totake advice.

SPEAKER_10 (03:05:19):
Fantastic.
I like the spirit of that.
And yeah, I definitely encourageour listeners to check out the
website.
There's a real focus onsustainability.
You can see all the differentproducts and services.
You guys have your blog, whichis actually quite extensive,
looking at different casestudies.
And so um, one thing weobviously would love to have you
a part of is our AI summit laterthis year.
And so I'll um share some moredetails with you, and obviously

(03:05:40):
uh we'll look to have you partof that event uh so you can
showcase where you've gotten tobetween where we are now in June
and October, because the worldI'm sure will look very
different for us both.
Absolutely.
Terrific to meet you, Samir, anduh good luck with the rest of
the conference.

SPEAKER_04 (03:05:54):
Thank you very much, Dan.
Looking forward.

SPEAKER_10 (03:05:57):
Our next guest here at AFA in Miami is someone that
is actually a really good friendof mine.
I've got a chance to know himover the last couple of years.
His name is Matthew Wade, and heis the CEO and co-founder of
Toggle Travel.
Matthew, welcome back to TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_05 (03:06:13):
Thank you.
It's great to see you again.

SPEAKER_10 (03:06:16):
Yeah, likewise.
And uh for our listeners,Matthew joined us last year at
AFA for our very first event.
We met at the Virtuosoconference.
I was so impressed with what uhhe and the team built.
Uh, Gabe and Hussein and I metat the conference as well.
And Matthew and I have kept intouch, and I'm a big uh believer
in what he's been building andthe team that he's um uh
surrounded himself with.

(03:06:37):
And interestingly, for ourlisteners, he's actually based
in Fort Lauderdale, so not toofar from where we are, so it's
easy for him to get down here.
But I know you guys all went toschool in Michigan and are
likely moving the startup to NewYork uh in the near future.
Uh and the one really cool thingthat all of our listeners need
to know right off the top is youguys are coming off a major
award at the Asta conference.
You guys actually wonEntrepreneur of the Year, which

(03:06:59):
is a really big deal for uh forany startup, especially one
being recognized by the AmericanSociety of Travel Advisors.
Um, so congratulations on your$10,000 prize and the amazing
recognition that you guys sowell deserve.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:12):
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
It was unbelievable.
Like we felt all the love, allthe support.
It was just so amazing to bearound everybody in San Diego.

SPEAKER_10 (03:07:20):
Yeah, that's awesome.
And um, and so tell everybodythat is just meeting you for the
first time and uh wrapping theirhead around uh toggle travel and
what you guys do.
Tell everyone a little bit aboutyour background and and toggle
travel.

SPEAKER_05 (03:07:33):
Yeah, so a little bit about us.
Um, we all met at the Universityof Michigan and we've just been
in love with the travel industryand kind of found child advisors
once we were like super young.
We were like 20 years old atevents like Virtuoso Travel
Week, uh, Asta, like all theseevents that we were just the
youngest people there, justtrying to learn as much as we

(03:07:54):
possibly can.
And we just kept talking toadvisors, kept learning, kept
building the uh technology inthe in the space.
And what we basically learned isthat these advisors and agencies
have decades and decades ofdata, and they're always told to
store their data, store theirdata is gonna be very valuable.
But there's no tool that theyhad that actually made that data

(03:08:14):
very easy to see what they needto do, give them the different
insights, and kind of show themwhat they actually can do with
their data to improve theirbusiness, and that's where
Tonglo Travel comes in.
We are a business intelligencetool that sits on top of your
CRM and back office to give youthat visualizations, those
insights, and those reportingson your data.

SPEAKER_10 (03:08:36):
That's great.
Now I appreciate sharing thatbecause when I first met you in
the team and a number of you didcomputer science, which
obviously is impressive in andof itself, but then the fact
that you decided to apply uhyour knowledge and expertise to
travel advisors and and knowingthe rest of the team as I've had
a chance to meet them a coupleof times, is that uh I believe
it was Hussein, there's familiesconnected to being uh uh a

(03:08:58):
travel agency, but you guys hadsome connections to the
industry, and then you guysdecided to make this a priority,
which is I think it's reallycool because given the range of
opportunities for um three youngsmart uh university graduates to
focus on, I think it's reallycool you guys decided to focus
on travel advisors, and there'sa huge business opportunity
there as you've come to realize.

(03:09:19):
And so you had the company uhwas originally called Jetpack,
and I know you've now kind oflike pivoted and evolved that,
and about a year ago launched uhtoggle travel.
Um tell everyone a little bitabout the growth that you've
seen and specifically theadvisors, like the clients you
work with, because your clientlist is actually really quite
impressive.

SPEAKER_05 (03:09:37):
Yeah, yeah.
So we we started with Jetpack,and that was more of a CRM
itinerary tool builder.
Um, but essentially what werealized is there's CRMs out
there, there's back office outthere that have the data.
That missing piece is actuallygetting that data to the
fingertips of advisors andagencies.
So that's kind of where westarted to hog.
We started in November of 2025,and it was through our first

(03:10:01):
customer uh at Large A Travelthat basically has told us like,
hey, we have all this data andwe need to kind of show it to
our advisors and agents uh to beable to get them to think more
like business owners and projectout their commissions and see uh
different things that they coulddo to increase their yielding
commission.
And that's kind of where we cameinto the industry.

(03:10:22):
And through that, we've beenworking with so many large
agencies, so many smallagencies, host agencies,
corporate agencies, leaderagencies, agencies of so many
different sizes and businessmodels, and been able to adapt
toggle to make uh the data kindof work for them as well.

SPEAKER_10 (03:10:38):
One thing that's really interesting about that,
Matthew, is that as you guyshave made this um you know
adjustment to your business, Ithink one of the things that you
guys have realized is there's amassive opportunity here, and so
beyond your existing clients.
So, and for those people who aremultitasking as we're having
this conversation, it's toggletravel.com.
And one thing that I was reallycool is you got a great feature

(03:10:58):
in Travel Weekly uh talkingabout the partnership um uh with
Larguay Travel and what you guyshave been working on together.
Um but let's bring it back towhere we are together here at
AFA in Miami, and especiallythis being your second year.
I know you kindly came, uhpartially as a favor to me,
because I I reached out and toldyou I was gonna be in town, so I
was thrilled to see you again.

(03:11:18):
So I know that was part of theum appeal for both of us was to
see each other again, and andit's really it's been really
cool uh getting this timetogether because my son, as you
come to understand, is only afew years younger than you.
He's his first year university,and I know you guys have been
hanging out together.
He's like he was telling me uhlast night uh how cool you are
and like how like what you'veaccomplished at such a young

(03:11:40):
age, and like you've certainlyinspired him already.
But um uh tell me uh if youwouldn't mind sharing some of
the other reasons that you cameto AFA this year and what your
experience has been over thelast couple of days.

SPEAKER_05 (03:11:51):
Yeah, I mean I think it's always super cool to see
technology in the space.
Um, I've been able to talk to alot of different uh people
providing tech for differentairlines and aviation partners,
which is super cool.
Um, it's something that we arethinking about expanding to in
the future, um, to working, kindof taking what we learned with
travel advisors and agencies andexpanding to different suppliers

(03:12:14):
and airlines and things likethat in the future.
So it's always cool to just kindof see what different people are
doing and different spaces anddifferent needs in the industry
across all of travel.

SPEAKER_10 (03:12:24):
Yeah, well, one cool moment yesterday when you were
uh with my son Oliver, you guyswent to go see the CEO of
WestJet uh uh talk on stage.
And then he happened to bestanding about 10 feet from our
booth, and uh Oliver and the twoof you were kind of whispering
to each other, and I said,What's going on, guys?
You're like, that's the CEO ofWestJet over there.
And I just went over to talk tohim and introduced myself and
have a chat.

(03:12:45):
And then you guys came over, andmy son was just so excited to
meet the CEO of WestJet, whichis one of the things that you
know uh you wouldn't have hadthe opportunity, not neither the
two of you or myself, um, tomeet him in person, you know,
seeing him on stage.
So those are some of the coolmoments.
And I've certainly enjoyed beinghere at AFA that much more this
year than last year.
I've actually found that thecall the caliber of speakers and

(03:13:08):
the sessions I've been involvedin and a lot of the recordings
we've done um has been in a kindof a real big step up from uh
from last year.
Last year was uh was very goodas well, but I'd say this year
is great, and I'm keen to seewhere AFA goes.
Um what are any other kind ofstandouts for you, Matthew,
aside from obviously networkingwith some key people and maybe
thinking about getting into theaviation space?
Was there any other standoutsgiven that you do attend another

(03:13:30):
a number of other conferencesthat was unique uh about AFA?

SPEAKER_05 (03:13:34):
Yeah, so one more person that we actually got to
meet a little bit after while wewere like by the talk I was
getting lunch, was actuallyDavid Neilman, which was super
cool um to see someone just sopivotal and so like uh
inspirational in the aviationindustry.
That was super cool that me andOliver got to meet him.
Um, but also something that wereally loved about the aviation

(03:13:54):
festival, just how we're able towalk up and talk to people and
how supporting everybody was andhow exciting people were about
the future of you know uhimplementing AI into different
use cases across the aviationindustry.
It was just so cool to see wherethe aviation aspect of it is
going and how it kind of affectsthe entire travel industry as a

(03:14:16):
whole.

SPEAKER_10 (03:14:16):
Yeah, no, I agree, because it's the ecosystem of
the airports, it's airlines, andeverything in between, including
all the technology companies.
We've met some interesting jetfuel companies that are doing
interesting things, even a uh acompany that focuses on uh
canines and giving them theirown digital ID.
I didn't realize that my dog andevery other dog that their nose
is like their thumbprint.
And so now, and there's beenlike WooFair and a few other um

(03:14:38):
airlines here that are cateringtowards animals.
So it's it's cool to see likethe the whole ecosystem of our
industry.
But to bring it back to traveladvisors and what you're focused
on, because uh it has been atopic of conversation in a
number of these uh interviewswhen we talk about the B2B and
trade, and a lot of the airlinesobviously work through um uh
traditional partnerships.

(03:15:00):
Um, keen to get your take onwhere the industry's headed.
So kind of two last things forour um our chat here, Matthew.
Tell us a little bit where uhyour the trends you're seeing in
the travel advisor space, evenif it relates to aviation, but
just overall trends in thetravel advisor space.
And then I'm keen to know whereyou guys are headed with toggle
travel over the next year.

SPEAKER_05 (03:15:20):
Yeah, so something that we're actually seeing uh
across the travel advisor spaceand also just like the entire
travel industry is just a focuson kind of getting that data and
making that data be useful toyou.
With AI, we all know that AI isonly as good as the data that
you uh given the dataunderneath.
And with uh travel agencies andadvisors who have decades and

(03:15:41):
decades of data, and across theentire industry, there's decades
and decades of data.
Um something that we see ispeople actually going back in
and making sure that data isclean, making sure that data is
accurate so that we can able toleverage that data in a great
way.
Uh so that's kind of whereToggle kind of comes in as well.
Uh something that we see toggledoing is uh cleaning a lot of

(03:16:04):
these uh databases and CRMs anduh back offices for our travel
agencies and advisors.
So we actually are working onour automatic QC uh agent that's
actually gonna go in and be ableto clean up all your data.
We've seen uh so many agencies,especially the large ones, have
700,000 issues that we flag intheir database.

(03:16:26):
And honestly, right now we justflag it and are able to, uh
they're able to fix it throughour platform.
But what we're actually able touh that what we're working to be
able to do is actually make itautomatic through um AI and
different code to be able tomake these QC agents kind of
clean up all these data recordsand kind of self-fuel and
self-clean your data so thatwe're able to keep uh clean,

(03:16:49):
robust um information on allyour clients' trips and
everything, and we're actuallyable to leverage AI when uh
agencies and advisors are readyto do so in a great way.

SPEAKER_10 (03:17:00):
Well, and I think that's where uh many of our
listeners have heard me talkabout the fact that you know the
best utilization uh for AI andthe use cases is in uh more
efficient workflows and backoffice, and so many of the ways
that you are incorporating AIinto the toggle platform.
Um, because I know you work witha lot of back office reservation
data when companies like clientbase and trams um and all of

(03:17:24):
that information can be reallypowerful uh for um for travel
advisors if they can benefitfrom uh having a better way to
access that data, havevisibility of it.
So um I'm really I'm excited foryou guys because obviously
you've built a really terrificteam and and the one thing that
stood out to me too, having metyour uh your co founders, is

(03:17:44):
just you know, I knew you guyslive together, you guys have um
uh been through universitytogether, and you know, now
you're in this startup phase andhopefully moving to New York
soon.
So um I know you've got a strongteam.
I know likely the next focus foryou guys is uh funding.
Um And so as you continue toscale.
Tell everyone a little bit aboutwhere you're headed over the
next six or twelve months.

SPEAKER_05 (03:18:06):
So right now we actually are able to cross the
figure in our annual runway,which is like the first element
we're able to do that.
And we're thinking we'll beafter the EOR.

(03:18:42):
We're looking to start rollingout.
We're actually starting to rollout an integrated coming and
bring that into trouble, whichis super exciting.
We have been able to track over2020-3 billion dollars across

(03:19:04):
the entire travel industry, andjust about one billion, a little
bit over one billion in just theyear of 2025 of how in the
amount that we've been able totrack and analyze and give
insights on from different uhagencies and advisors.

SPEAKER_10 (03:19:20):
Well, I'm really excited for you guys.
And then I, you know, when youlook at companies like Flora and
Turn and companies that arehaving a great deal of success
working with advisors,empowering advisors, I think
there's still so muchopportunity here.
So um I'm excited for you,excited for the team.
And on that note, I know I'vementioned the website, but just
to finish off, let's make surethat any of our global listeners
that may want to reach out toyou after this conversation,

(03:19:43):
what would be the best ways forthem to connect with you and the
team?

SPEAKER_05 (03:19:46):
Yeah, so just email me at matt at today.com.
That's M-A-T-T attodertravel.com.
Um and then you can also visitour website, Toglotravel.com,
and book a demo through there.

SPEAKER_10 (03:19:57):
Awesome.
Well it's great to see youagain.
Thank you for our continuedfriendship and thanks for uh
taking my son under your wingover the last uh day and a half
and and showing him the ropes.
And um and I think all of asudden he disappeared for hours
and you guys were at all thesedifferent sessions is exactly
what I was hoping for him.
You guys were going around tothe different booths and meeting
people, and uh I could see howmuch both of you are benefiting
from being at AFA, and I wasjust delighted to see him.

(03:20:20):
So thank you for doing that andwishing you and the team every
success.
And I look forward to seeing youagain in person soon.

SPEAKER_05 (03:20:25):
Of course, thank you so much, and it was so cool,
especially with him uh you knowworking to be a future pilot.
He was like actually seeing somelike pilot software as well, and
it was so cool.
They were like over for likeliterally like 20-30 minutes.
It was like so cool.
He was like, wow, this is thebest thing ever.
Like, you have to get this to mypilot school and everything.
So it was just it was justawesome to see that.

SPEAKER_10 (03:20:46):
Yeah, there's a lady named Josephine Dietrich, who's
the managing uh partner of acompany that does this Skygo uh
app.
And um she had uh told me aboutthe fact he was uh she was so
excited to meet another Av geekbecause she referred to it.
I asked my son, I was like, youknow, he's he's okay with that.
I guess they were uh geeking outover airport codes, and uh I

(03:21:07):
missed that conversation.
You were obviously there for it,but she sent me a note
afterwards just asking him ifhe'd like to be uh a beta tester
for the app.
So he clearly made animpression.
But um yeah, I think having youas a sidekick really helps.
So yeah, sincerely, thank youagain.
And yeah, I'll I'm I'm surewe'll be seeing each other soon
or summit later this year, or umbut uh yeah, best of luck to the
team and uh look forward tokeeping in touch, my friend.

SPEAKER_05 (03:21:29):
Awesome.
I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_10 (03:21:34):
And our next guest here live in Miami at the
Aviation Festival is CharlesStoot.
He is the CMO of Delight AI.
Charles, welcome to the TravelTrends Podcast.

SPEAKER_13 (03:21:45):
Thanks for having me, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (03:21:46):
Fantastic.
I when I actually posted aboutbeing here at the event, uh, one
of your team members, uhPatricia, reached out right
away, so I was really impressed.
And then when I actually arrivedyesterday to get set up with my
booth, she kindly opened thedoor for me.
And I had a moment where I waslike, wait a second, I I think I
recognize you.
So I just sent you an emailabout being on the podcast, and
so I was really it was terrificto already meet your team.
And as it works out, Charles, weare like three booths away from

(03:22:09):
each other here at the event.
And I was looking last nightabout Delight AI and what you
guys do.
So I'm really intrigued and I'mglad you took the opportunity to
join us for this.
But tell everyone a little bitabout Delight AI and what it is
you guys do.

SPEAKER_13 (03:22:20):
Yeah, so we are an AI company in the agentic AI
space.
Um, but our platform isspecifically designed for
delivering these concierge-levelexperiences.
And I'm glad you had uh a humanconcierge level experience
earlier.
But uh, we're really about usingour platform to design these
concierge level experiences atscale for brands across a
variety of industries, includingairlines and travel, and really

(03:22:41):
being able to deliver verypersonalized end user
experiences across very hardworkflows and doing that through
an agentic technology.

SPEAKER_10 (03:22:48):
Very cool.
And I know you're based in SanFrancisco.
Um tell us a little bit morewhat brought you to the event
this year.
Is it your first time at AFA?

SPEAKER_13 (03:22:54):
Yes, this is my first time at AFA, so pretty
excited to be here.
And as I mentioned, airlines isone of the areas of focus for us
because we're able to drive alot of efficiencies as well as
ancillary revenue opportunitiesin the airline industry.
So we have some great use casesof what we've been able to
drive, both um for leadingglobal airlines, and so this was
a great opportunity to showcasethat to the industry

(03:23:15):
specifically here.

SPEAKER_10 (03:23:15):
Very cool.
So give us a little bit ofbackground on Delight AI and
your role.
Obviously, you're the chiefmarketing officer, but Delight
AI, how long have you guys beenaround?
What other verticals are youguys also working in?
Give us a little bit about theevolution of the business.

SPEAKER_13 (03:23:27):
Yeah, so it's uh a longer story, so I'll try to be
short, but we've actually beenaround for over 10 years.
We actually started life as aSendBird, uh and we started life
in Korea, and it was actually atotally different problem that
we were solving, which wasconnecting communities in Korea.
And uh the company sort ofpivoted a little bit and
realizing that the technologythat we had developed uh was
scalable to essentially anyglobal platform of a community

(03:23:51):
that required communication.
So we power the communicationsbehind a lot of the leading
consumer apps that you might useor know of, like Hinge in the
dating world, DoorDash in thedelivery world.
So those embedded uh you know,two uh two-way communication
sessions are actually powered bythe Sendbird platform.
Fascinating.
Uh and about two years ago, wesort of realized that uh at
least one end of thecommunication flow was going to

(03:24:13):
be an AI agent at some point.
And so we built the platformDelight AI to be able to solve
that problem where essentiallyAI agents are now in the
communications flow and servingas this sort of front door
concierge for different brandsacross retail, travel and
hospitality, financial services,healthcare, B2B tech as well.
Uh so we we address all thoseindustries, as well as

(03:24:34):
industries that have sort ofcomplex challenges around
customer interactions andworkflows.
So think about like somethinglike logistics where you have a
large coordination problem, oreven an airlines where you have
a lot of complex workflowsaround identifying ancillary
revenue opportunities or beingable to process refunds that
require approvals andcheckpoints.
A lot of those complex workflowswe actually handle really well.

SPEAKER_10 (03:24:56):
Fascinating.
And one of the reasons I waskeen to have you on this episode
is because we just did a serieson agencai AI.
And when I was looking at yourwebsite, which for all of our
listeners is delight.ai, I hadnoticed that you are in a number
of industries like retail, andyou were mentioning like there's
even healthcare, financialservices.
But when it comes to travel andhospitality, my understanding of

(03:25:16):
the offering, like the AI agentthat travels with your guests,
is very much around offering anagentic solution to companies.
Um and so tell us a little bitmore about how this solution
works for airlines inparticular, or how you guys are
really engaging with the travelindustry.

SPEAKER_13 (03:25:32):
So I think like to take a step back for a moment,
airlines have historically usedinvestments in AI to be
defensive.
So you think about the chatbotexperiences on most airline
websites today, it was reallyabout how many tickets and phone
calls can I deflect and resolvewith automation.
And it wasn't so much about canI truly improve the travel
experience, but really how can Ireduce the cost of serving the

(03:25:54):
customer.
And so we're trying to sort ofpivoting to moving onto offense
and how can you use AI toactually improve the travel
experience as well as to driveessentially top line revenue for
some of these ancillaryservices.
And so what we have found isthat the use cases actually that
get unlocked with AI are aboutpersonalization.
So, how do I takepersonalization that used to be

(03:26:14):
segmented?
So maybe I have like high valuecustomers and low value
customers, and sort of thesevery broad definitions to really
being able to personalize for asegment of one, each individual
customer, and then being able todesign experiences that unlock
additional revenue products andupsells for them or solve some
of their travel challenges inreal time.

SPEAKER_10 (03:26:33):
Yeah, and I'm fascinated by all three of those
because obviously fasterresolution times I know is one
of the keys to your platforms,but then increasing revenue for
abandoned bookings.
Um, and one of the things we'vecertainly seen where agentec AI
has become really valuable isreducing operational costs.
So it's like how can you make abusiness more efficient?
How can you increaseconversions, and how can you
better serve customers?

(03:26:54):
And one of the things that stoodout to me as well is that you're
also in the hospitality space.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat side of the business
because one of the things thatintrigued me was this trust OS
concept that you have.

SPEAKER_11 (03:27:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (03:27:05):
Um and because one of the things that most
companies are concerned abouttoday when it comes to AI is
exactly that trust.
And how do I actually make surethat it you know it's not gonna
hallucinate?
I'm gonna have my customersgonna get a great experience.
There's still too often cited anexample that we joked about in
our last series about how NARCanada chatbot gave someone the
wrong price, and all of a suddeneveryone used that as a reason

(03:27:25):
not to use these tools.

SPEAKER_13 (03:27:27):
Yes.
So I think it's reallyimportant.
We deliberately named thatcomponent trust because you need
to be able to give an agenticsystem trust, be able to give it
agency to actually do things.
And so when we say trust,there's a multi-layers of trust.
So you think about like some ofthe common things in the IT
world, like the softwaredevelopment lifecycle.
How do you actually deploy anagent, police it, monitor it,

(03:27:49):
test it?
So all those processes are inTrust OS.
How do you detecthallucinations?
How do you detect brandguardrails, both like brand
voice and what and topics thatare on off topic or on topic in
terms of uh the limits that youset?
Um how do you police businessprocesses, like the Air Canada
example?
Um so the the challenge has beenhow do you actually give humans

(03:28:11):
some of the tools to be able toinspect what's actually
happening in the AI system soit's not a black box?
And then two, how do you startto take humans out of the loop?
Because at the end of the day,the volume of transactions
potential there is so large thathumans can't police every
transaction.
So, how do how do you highlightwhat humans where they do need
to be in the loop?
And then how do you actuallygive the system agency over time
to self-improve?

(03:28:32):
And so that's all inside thatthat trust OS layer that we
built.

SPEAKER_10 (03:28:35):
And the other thing I'm always keen to ask someone
who has the experience likeyourself working within agentic
AI in the travel industry and intwo of the biggest verticals,
airlines and and hotels andhospitality, is some of the
trends that you're seeing.
I mean, we're having thisconversation now kind of
mid-2026, and I'm not sayingthat to date ourselves, but when
we talk about AI, we know it'sevolving every month.
We're doing our our summit atthe end of October.

(03:28:56):
And when I was doing a sessionlast week live in Toronto, I
highlighted to everyone tell uswhat the future looks like.
And when I say the future, Imean October 2026.
Not five years from now, but sixmonths from now.
I mean, these companies likeAnthropic, OpenAI, you know,
they're preparing to go public.
We're seeing some of the uh uhthe growth in their revenue and
how companies are utilizingthese tools.
It's really exciting time to bein this space.

(03:29:18):
I always love to share, youknow, great case studies of how
AgenTech AI is being utilized.
So tell us if you wouldn't mindsharing some examples of either
clients you have or some of theuh, I guess the real life
success stories and the trendsyou're seeing in this in agentic
AI and in travel.

SPEAKER_13 (03:29:33):
Yeah, so I'll start specifically with travel and
then we can go broader toagentic AI.
But uh one one interesting trendis one of the airlines that we
work with said you know everycustomer contact today is a
revenue opportunity.
Even when they're haveessentially asking a question or
have an issue, it's an upsellopportunity.
And so they've actuallyidentified when people are
asking a certain question, thisis an opportunity to move them

(03:29:55):
to a higher tier bucket orhigher revenue bucket or offer
some ancillary services.
And they've been able to use ourAI agents to actually seamlessly
and and um you know in asophisticated way and in an
appropriate way, be able to say,like, hey, I see you're having
this problem.
If you want to upgrade yourticket to the next fair band,
actually you can have an evenbetter experience on the on the

(03:30:17):
day of travel.
Um so it's actually a revenuedriver and and and a really
interesting uh opportunity forthe travel industry because as I
said, and in their mind, everycustomer contact was an
opportunity at the very least tolearn more about that customer
and enrich the profile of thatuh that segment of one, but
usually to identify an ancillaryrevenue opportunity as well.

SPEAKER_10 (03:30:35):
Fantastic.
Yep, keep going.

SPEAKER_13 (03:30:38):
If I go broader to sort of the the broad anthropic
and open AI question, I thinkhow we work is is fundamentally
transforming.
I even think about internally asour marketing team, we're a very
AI, you know, being an AIcompany, we're a very AI forward
way in the way we work.
Um but the systems that we usedto be hands-on day-to-day, we're
not actually in anymore, eventhough they're the systems of
record.
A lot of our work is actuallydone in cloud and anthropic,

(03:31:00):
either cloud coding and vibecoding applications or asking
questions of cloud around dataand analytics, because
essentially all of our data isnow exposed to all of us as
marketers who are able to makedecisions in real time.
And I think the same thing ishappening in the travel world
where if we can break down thedata silos and the
organizational silos, the uh theinsights that you're able to
capture and the personalizationand product offers that you're

(03:31:24):
able to design can actuallyhappen much faster.
Uh and so we're seeing like thevelocity of sort of these
insights changing how businessesare run, but also how
organizations are designed.
Uh and so there's thisinteresting role emerging that
we've seen of sort of the AIagent manager.
So if you think about in youryour contact center, your call
center, you had managers foryour human agents.

(03:31:44):
Uh, we actually need a managerfor your AI agents.
And that's a different sort ofuh persona a little bit in terms
of the skill set for that.
But if you actually can identifythat role, then you can unlock a
lot of the insights that are inyour data and systems today.

SPEAKER_10 (03:31:57):
Yeah.
Well, and one thing I want toask you too, given that our our
global listeners and acrossindustries beyond aviation
hospitality, is there anyinterest in you guys getting
into other verticals, or is itprimarily uh aviation
hospitality, or do you see widerapplication of your solution in
other areas of travel?

SPEAKER_13 (03:32:14):
Uh we do.
So, you know, really interestinguh, you know, at the end of the
day, all of those uh sort ofdifferent travel points come
together into like travel, youknow, travel booking companies.
Um so if you think about hotels,car rental, airlines, travel
experiences, a lot of timespeople are still turning to a
travel portal of some sort to beable to book those.
Uh and so a lot of times if youhave one sort of component of

(03:32:37):
that trip experience disrupted,then all the other components
have to change.
And so there's a lot ofcoordination that actually
happens.
And so this is a really stronguse case for us because again,
back to my comment of sort ofcomplex, long-lived workflows
where you have multiple partiesthat you have to connect,
different communicationmodalities, in you know, maybe
even different languages torearrange a booking, we can
handle all of that veryseamlessly in our platform.

(03:32:59):
So that's another like reallystrong use case for us.

SPEAKER_10 (03:33:01):
Very interesting, and obviously bringing us back
to being here in Miami togetherand knowing that we're
surrounded by airlines,airports, and a number of
technology companies that arealso looking to work with those
uh both of those uh types ofbusinesses.
What are some of the otherreasons that you're here for
this event?
And what are, I guess, yourhopes and aspirations of being
at AFA this year?

(03:33:22):
Clearly, you know, there'sobviously business
opportunities, but I knowthere's a number of sessions.
I'm I'm moderating a panel.
I've been involved in some ofthe sessions this morning.
Has there been any otherhighlights or takeaways from
what you've seen so far?
And what are some of the otherbenefits you think of being
here?

SPEAKER_13 (03:33:35):
Yeah, well, I think like uh, you know, I'm doing a
session later on this afternoontoo, where we're going into a
little bit deeper about customerexperience and sort of what are
the true unlocks for airlinesand travel companies around
customer experience.
And you know, my I've been inthe customer experience world
for a long time.
So my uh sort of pet peeve isclosing experience gaps.
And when I experience them as aconsumer, it's frustrating.
And I think most of us asconsumers have had a frustrating

(03:33:58):
experience across a variety ofindustries, so not just singling
out travel.
But if we can actually thinkholistically about what is the
consumer journey like, becauseat the end of the day, as a
consumer, I don't really whenI'm engaging with a brand,
whether that be likepost-purchase, post-purchase,
exploring trip options, duringthe day of travel or after
travel, uh, and hopefully Ididn't have sort of an interops

(03:34:19):
scenario, it's more of a loyaltypost-travel type of scenario.
But I I don't, as a consumer,don't care about the different
departments and systems.
Like when I'm post-travel, Idon't it's I don't want to know
that it's a loyalty department.
I just want to know it's thebrand that I interact with.
Yeah.
And like designing a seamlessconsumer experience so there's
one one interface, one frontend, and one knowledge of me, of

(03:34:41):
what I care about and what Ivalue, like that's that's
important to me, not the the theway it's historically been
defined in terms of theseorganizational boundaries and
system boundaries.
And so I'm hoping that we canunlock some of that thinking
with the brands that are heretoday and some of the sessions
that we're when we're talkingabout customer experience and
truly thinking about theholistic journey as one journey,
one customer, and one body ofknowledge.

SPEAKER_10 (03:35:03):
Fantastic.
I'm gonna make an effort toattend your session as well
because obviously that allsounds fascinating to me.
We're doing our session is onthe uh customer experience in
the age of AI.
So in clearly all very similarconcepts.
Yes, exactly.
We've got one world and acompany called Sierra AI that is
gonna be a part of that session.
So it's cool for me to see theAI companies that are here

(03:35:24):
because obviously we know thatit's transforming our industry.
It's not something that uh it'sabout to transform.
That was sort of the theme ofour conference last year, is
like how is first generative AIand agentic AI and all aspects
of AI really transformingtravel.
Um, from your perspective, interms of where we're headed,
given that you obviously workwith a large team across

(03:35:45):
industries and you're in theheart of Silicon Valley, which
is still driving a lot of thisinnovation, where do you think
we're gonna see some of the mostexciting innovations uh in terms
of utilizing this technology intravel?
Obviously, in terms of whatyou're building, yes, of course,
but just you know, when you lookproject forward, because you can
see the technology, you know ourindustry, and a lot of it is
unfortunately quite outdated andtrying to figure out how they

(03:36:08):
how do they respond.
What are some of the things youthink our listeners should be
paying attention to?

SPEAKER_13 (03:36:11):
Yeah, so I think one of the advantages in in travel
and particularly airlines, sincewe're talking about airlines
here at AFA, um, is the amountof data that you actually have
access to is pretty impressive.
So when I, you know, in otherindustries that I work in, like
retail, you know, retailerswould kill to have this level of
data in terms of therelationship and the
interactions that you've hadwith the customer.

(03:36:32):
Because in many cases, thinkabout you know, longtime
business traveler, you mighthave a 25-year relationship with
a given airline, right, and abrand.
And I think in other industrieslike retail, you don't have
those that long a relationship,and you don't have that rich a
data set and essentially acustomer graph to work with.
So there's a lot ofopportunities to unlock what's
already in those systems andthose data records today across

(03:36:55):
an airline or across hospitalitycompanies.
Um and so I'm I'm I'm veryexcited about essentially what
we can do, not just from, like Isaid, like yes, it's great to
close the customer experiencegaps and make customer support
more responsive, more able tosolve problems without actually
having to escalate tosupervisors and other folks.
Um but the the amount ofpersonalization, the amount of

(03:37:16):
being able to deliver what Iwant as a consumer, again, like
the segment of one, what I careabout is different than what you
care about, even though we mightfly in the same airline and we
might be the same loyalty tier,right?

SPEAKER_11 (03:37:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (03:37:26):
Um and so the rewards that they offer, the
products that they want toupsell me on, the trips that
they're suggesting, the moreholistic experience from ground
and booking all the way throughto the day of travel and
afterwards, the opportunity topersonalize that for me is is
very exciting.
I think it's also a a hugerevenue opportunity for every
travel company.

SPEAKER_10 (03:37:46):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
One of the great inspirations Ioften take is when you look
outside at other industries thatare being disrupted by AI and
think about how it applies totravel.
My most recent example of thatwas buying a new car and the app
that was the platform that wascontinually sending me text
messages to let me know what mycurrent trade-in value was.
And when I went to thedealership and I explained, he's
like, we have no knowledge ofthat system or platform

(03:38:07):
whatsoever.
But it actually got me in andgave me a great trade-in value
that they matched.
And but it was clearly the AIthat was just sending out these
offers to all previous owners.
And my the thing that stood outto me is why can't we do that
with trips?
You know, that if like uhsending out real custom um
opportunities for you to takeyour next trip based on what the
platform knows about you.
If all of a sudden there is anew flight price or there's you

(03:38:29):
know a hotel incentive based onyour loyalty programs, why
couldn't I get a similar type ofservice from the travel industry
rather than you know trade in ona car, which is way more
exciting?

SPEAKER_13 (03:38:38):
Yes, exactly.
So I think you know theopportunity for the travel
industry, one is as we thinkabout like you was talking sort
of broadly about AI starting toreplace some work functions, um,
the the ability to connect withother humans is never gonna be
replaced by AI.
And I think like that is uh youknow one of the great unlocks as
we think about AI automatingsome of the more drudgery
drudgerous tasks of work in theworkday, is that it frees up

(03:39:01):
time for interactions andrelationships, and travel is an
enabler of that.
So there's always gonna be aneed for travel, I think.
Um perhaps even more needbecause we'll have more time to
actually travel, whether forwork or for personal reasons, as
part of that transformation.
Um, but you're right, the thethe ability to personalize today
is is pretty crude, uh, youknow, relatively speaking, and

(03:39:22):
and very generalized.
And the be being able topersonalize will, I think,
unlock a lot of value forconsumers, but also a lot of a
lot of revenue opportunities.
And in fact, we did someresearch on this topic recently,
and one of the drivers that wefound, we were asking consumers
essentially what are the driversof trust when you interact with
an AI system in a customerservice or customer experience

(03:39:43):
sort of workflow?
Uh this was across differentindustries, but travel was sort
of right in the middle in termsof the averages.
And the biggest driver forpeople was just remember who I
am.
In other words, I don't want tore explain my problem.
Even if I was on the phone withsomeone, the call dropped,
right?
Like that's so frustratingafter.
Waiting 25 minutes and finallyget someone on the phone to help
start helping you, and then thecall drops.

(03:40:04):
Yeah.
And then you have to start over.
Um, you know, instead ofstarting over, just pick up on a
different channel.
Um, and remember me, remember,and and and if if it wasn't in
the uh sort of immediate uh sortof ticketing and resolution
flow, even if I'm calling againfor a different issue, like
remember my past interactions,remember me as a consumer and a
customer of your brand.

(03:40:24):
Yeah.
Like that was the biggest driverfor people to have trust in
agentix systems and you know,delight, play on words here, but
have like greater delight ininteracting with an AI system.

SPEAKER_10 (03:40:34):
Yeah.
I love that, and I can't thinkof the number of times where I
have to restart again.
And then the agent on the otherend has made a note in my file
and told me to make sure Ireference that note.
I was like, why are we still atthis stage of technology?
So that is that would delight meto know him, uh, Charles.
So let's make sure for thosepeople that have now just come
to understand Delight AI,obviously, I've mentioned the

(03:40:54):
website, but I'd love for ourlisteners to know how to connect
with you and to be able toconnect with the team uh to
learn more and potentiallypartner with you guys.

SPEAKER_13 (03:41:01):
Yes, exactly.
So as you mentioned, the websiteis delight.ai.
Um the research that I justcited is part of our larger
research, uh, our Delight AIIndex, uh, where we looked at uh
those trends across travel andhospitality, retail, financial
services, healthcare, um, techand media, telecom services.
Um you can download the report,uh, the delight AI Index as well
if you're curious about thatdata.

(03:41:22):
Um, and you can connect with medirectly on LinkedIn or uh
through the website.

SPEAKER_10 (03:41:28):
Fantastic.
And that's Charles Stoot, whichis S-T-U-D-T.

SPEAKER_13 (03:41:32):
Exactly.
Perfect.

SPEAKER_10 (03:41:33):
Yeah, so I'm sure many people reach out to you on
LinkedIn after this.
So I just wanted to call thatout as people are typing it in
and then also typing the companyname.

SPEAKER_11 (03:41:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (03:41:40):
Um but Charles, it's a real pleasure to meet you.
Obviously, I was I was genuinelyum uh delighted to meet the team
and just I I can't not use thatword now, but it was like it was
truly my reaction when your teamreached out.
And obviously, it's one of thespecial things about getting
together at a conference likethis is that someone sees a post
on LinkedIn, then takes theinitiative to reach out.
Then next thing you know, you'reinteracting as you're getting

(03:42:00):
your boots set up.
And next thing you know, we'resitting here together having
this conversation.
And so obviously, you know,Aviation Festival brought us
together for this.
I hope the conference works outreally well for you guys.
We're obviously thrilled to bethe official podcast partner and
to have this opportunity to sitdown.
But yeah, good luck over thenext couple of days, and I look
forward to keeping in touch andand certainly potential future
collaborations as well.

SPEAKER_13 (03:42:20):
Thanks, Dan.
I really appreciate theopportunity and great to chat
with you.

SPEAKER_10 (03:42:25):
Our next guest here at the AFA conference in Miami
is Chris Russo, and he is theenergy director for North
America for Publicist Sapi.
And I was keen to bring him inthe conversation because we've
been chatting over the lastcouple of days around airfare
prices and increased fuel costsand what it means for the
airline.
So, Chris, welcome to TravelTrends.

(03:42:47):
Great to have you on this eventspotlight.

SPEAKER_08 (03:42:49):
Dan, I appreciate it.
Thanks for coming and joining.
Well, albeit a very wet uhseason here in Miami at the
time, but it's always good toconnect with you.
Thanks for having me on theshow.

SPEAKER_10 (03:42:58):
Yeah, for sure.
And one of the things I alsowant to mention to our audience
as we uh begin our uh discussionhere is the fact that you used
to be a former WWE broadcaster.
And for some reason we gottalking about wrestling.
I think you met my son, andyeah.
So actually, let's let's quicklystart with that.
Tell us your background onwrestling, and then we'll talk
about what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_08 (03:43:18):
Yeah, it's it's it's a crazy but it makes more heck
of an icebreaker.
You probably see on my lanyardhere.
I always write it on everyconference that I go to, I
always write on my lanyard anicebreaker, which is ask me
about pro wrestling, right?
So you see it, you caught me,you asked me.
Um, yeah, I I started my careereven before you know technology
and everything with travel andhospitality in in the world of

(03:43:39):
professional wrestling.
That was like it's my passion.
It was my dream to like be abroadcaster and right places at
the right times, met the rightpeople.
Um, I got to live that dream,got to be with the WWE for about
a year, traveling with thatcircus as an on-air talent
broadcaster, ring announcer, youknow, like the Bruce Buffer you
see on UFC.

(03:44:00):
I did it all.
And I still get to do it on theside here.
You know, I live in Houston,Texas, so I still actually get
to do it for anybody listeningthat ever followed wrestling and
knows the name Booker T.
He's got a great wrestlingpromotion down here in Houston.
I'm still a part of that.
You can find me, sorry,shameless plug damn, reality of
wrestling.
I love it.
So that's kind of like my side.

(03:44:20):
It's like, you know, I'm uhBruce Wayne during the day here
with my day job, but then I'mlike Batman and do this cool
thing with wrestling.

SPEAKER_10 (03:44:28):
Yeah, that's cool.
Well, I grew up in like the youknow, that heyday of Hulk Hogan
and Andre the Giant and like thefirst WrestleManias.
I was a huge fan when I was akid.
I really thought it was real formany years, and I still am
embarrassed to think about Iused to argue with my uh friends
and relatives that it was real.
And uh eventually my heart wasbroken, just like you know, with
other with Santa Claus, EasterBunny, everything else.

(03:44:50):
But I still have a greataffinity for the the sport and
the entertainment.
Um, but but before we segue intothe world of travel, tell all of
our listeners who your favoritewrestler was or is based on
having had that up-closeexperience.

SPEAKER_08 (03:45:04):
So I I got to work with a lot of the big name
wrestlers that people know todaythat are watching today, the
John Cena's, Randy Orton's, uhyour Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins.
I was there as part of thedevelopmental program when a lot
of those names were there thatyou see now on top of the world
here.
It is so crazy to be a part oflike NXT when it first started.

(03:45:26):
My favorite wrestlers, though,from a peer entertainment
perspective, I grew up duringthe Attitude Era.
So it's always the rock.
It was always the rock, right?
The most charismatic guy.
But for you deep hardcorewrestling nerds, the deep cuts,
my favorite technical wrestler,Dean Malenko.
So there you go.
That's a deep cut right there.

SPEAKER_10 (03:45:44):
Dean Malenko.
Okay, I'm gonna look that one uplater.
But um, that's awesome.
Cool.
I'm in I'm intrigued already.
Um, but to bring us back totravel and why we're here at
Miami, tell everyone a bit aboutyour role.
I'm very familiar with PublicistSapient being the world's
largest advertising company.
I didn't realize your role intravel and with airlines and

(03:46:06):
specifically what would bringyou here to AFA.
So I'd love if you wouldn't mindtelling everyone a bit about
your role and what brought youhere to this conference.

SPEAKER_08 (03:46:12):
Yeah, so you you hit the nail on the head about
Publicist Group, largestadvertising media, uh,
communications agency in theworld, acquired us Sapient,
about 10 years ago because theywere looking for um doers,
right?
Actual a technology advisoryconsulting company that actually
can implement this world that welive in now of digital
transformation.

(03:46:33):
Certainly, you know, artificialintelligence is everywhere now,
but we've always been on that onthat forefront and that cusp.
Um and so we we are the doers.
We will go in and we will helpuh our clients actually solve
problems, right?
It's one thing to advertise andsay how great you are, but when
you need those technologies andthose things in place to

(03:46:54):
actually help you achieve yourobjectives, we are the company.
Sapient is the company that goesin and does the work.
And why we are here at AFA is wehave a very strong travel and
hospitality vertical that isdoing great things with airlines
and airports around all things,around ground ops, iROPs, uh,
customer loyalty,personalization at scale.

(03:47:16):
We've been delivering this fortravel and hospitality and our
clients for um almost over 25years.
But one area that we have pickedup a lot of steam, and where I
come from here, Dan, is from ourenergy side and our energy
practice.
And fuel management and fueloptimization has become uh sort

(03:47:38):
of the uh phrase of the momenthere in the airline industry.
And so, in addition to talkingwith clients about all the
things that I just mentioned,fuel optimization now is on the
is at the forefront of people'sminds.
And we are actually taking oursuccesses in our history of
delivering fuel, what we callvalue chain optimization,
maximizing and optimizing themolecule flow from acquiring it

(03:48:02):
to ultimately putting it in thewingtip.
A lot of efficiency gains thatyou can have in between.
So we're taking our successes ofwhat we've delivered for energy
clients, and we're actuallymapping it very, very well to
our airline and cruise lineclients as well.
And when now that gas andaviation fuel is about almost$5
a gallon and rising, uh, itbecomes a very um interesting

(03:48:24):
conversation that we are havingwith carriers of all sizes now.

SPEAKER_10 (03:48:29):
I would have had no idea that uh Pueblos and Sapien
would have been focused onenergy, and obviously it's
interesting you're based inHouston, which obviously is uh a
huge energy hub.
Um tell us a little bit aboutthese rising fuel prices, the
impact they're having on theairlines, because it's it's
exactly where Terrapin startedthis conference on day one uh
yesterday morning, opening uptalking about the fact that some

(03:48:51):
airlines like Spirit, you know,have succumbed to these multiple
factors, but specifically theincreasing cost of fuel uh with
the inability of some airlinesto absorb that shock.
Um, tell us you you mentioned aninteresting stat to me before we
set off on uh recording aboutwhat a significant impact it's
having on airline profits.
Tell us a little bit more aboutthat and I guess what what

(03:49:12):
brings you here to have thisconversation and what airlines
are going to be able to do to uhto help improve that situation.

SPEAKER_08 (03:49:18):
So uh the conflict right now that we are having is
causing you know tremendousstrain on the the global oil uh
commodity markets, right?
Everybody can see that theprices are going up.
Aviation fuel is by far the mostaffected for a number of

(03:49:40):
reasons.
That price um is again uh a yearago, aviation fuel was roughly
roughly$2.60, 70 cents a gallon.
Okay, just that's kind of justthe rough averages that we're
seeing.
We saw the legacy carriersreporting in last year.
And that number is closer tofive.

(03:50:02):
Okay.
The uh IATA is about to come outwith some very interesting
statistics that I have seenahead of time here, where they
are forecasting uh globalprofits to be cut in half for
airlines.
I think we're gonna go roughlysomewhere from the in the$40

(03:50:24):
billion range, 40s, 45, to about20 to 25 globally.
And that is directly impactedbecause of the price of fuel.
Uh, and so this is where youmentioned Spirit.
They are they were theunfortunate canary, uh yellow
plane canary in the coal mine,um, where there were a lot of

(03:50:46):
reasons why they they wentunder, but this fuel was like
the latest and and and mostimpactful at the very end for
them.
Uh you know, Dan, we're goingto, I think this is the first
domino where we are going to seeother smaller carriers.
You know, you can call themULCCs, you can call them sort of

(03:51:06):
the in Europe the secondaryairlines, the Eurowings.
Those ones are going tosignificantly reduce their
networks, if not completely shutdown because of this.
And um I'll also say we'reactually seeing legacy carriers
starting to shut down routes.
We just American Airlines hereis announcing that routes in the
US, they're they're shuttingdown routes.

(03:51:28):
I think like an LA to Dullesairport route, right?
Because of fuel constraints.
Uh this is a problem that'sgoing to start getting worse
here, Dan.
And we can we can certainly goin a million different
directions that you want to.
Um, but this is an area whereairlines are really needing to
figure out where do we go here?
How do we stem as much of thebleeding air as possible?

SPEAKER_10 (03:51:49):
That couldn't be a more important topic to discuss
because it's having asignificant impact on consumers
around the globe.
A good example of that isAustralia.
Many Australians are afraid totravel internationally because
the media has highlighted tothem that if they leave the
island, they may not be able toget back because of jet fuel
shortages.
And uh so we've seen people thatare canceling trips and many
people who are just not bookingtrips this year out of

(03:52:11):
Australia.
And so, you know, the this isvery real, and a lot of travel
companies are feeling the pinch.
And so you've got obviouslygeopolitical factors, you've got
the war um uh in the MiddleEast, and people are, you know,
it's not only making an impacton fuel prices, but people
rethinking their decisions totravel.
So given that we're here at AFAtogether and the focus is

(03:52:32):
airlines at airports, andclearly we all want to see uh
travelers continue to travel,um, what are some of the things
that you are recommending toyour clients or some of the
initiatives that you're seeingthat are working to encourage
people to still travel?
Because clearly neither of uscan control fuel prices.
Hopefully, they do start to comedown over the course of the

(03:52:53):
year.
However, you know, given thatthey have been elevated now for
four or five months and likelywill continue to be, this year
is going to really be defined byexactly what you described a
huge drop in profits by virtueof the increase in cost.
So, what should airlines here bedoing about this?
What are you seeing out there?
And um, what would yourrecommendations to be for uh for
our listeners?

SPEAKER_08 (03:53:14):
All right.
So you you add there's there'stwo segments to this, right?
You talk about like yourairlines and airports, and then
your your air travel, yourcustomers, right?
The the flyers, and and whatwhat should each be doing?
So let's start, let's start withthe let's start with the
airlines, right?
Um, you know, something assimple as imagine the uh to use
uh an analogy at an airport,think about your fuel sources

(03:53:38):
and the the different um youknow fuel tanks and and and and
fuel sources at the airport,like a beer, beer taps at a bar,
right?
You know, you give me a draft,right?
And you'll see a row of you knowsix different beer taps, right?
And obviously people areordering different beers and
different things, and so thekegs in the back, right, are at
different levels.

(03:53:58):
But you know, you the the thebartenders may not have
visibility until you knowthere's no more beer coming out
of it to understand, hey, wherehow much beer is left?
Maybe nobody's ordering aspecific kind of beer, maybe we
should incentivize them and dropit by a few cents so that more
people start to drink this beer.
Well, take that analogy and moveit now to you know the airlines,

(03:54:22):
right?
Which tap, which you know, fuelpump should airlines be pulling
from at the airport at any onetime?
Something, uh a question assimple as that.
Oftentimes there isn't a wholelot of rigor as to, you know,
hey, look, this fuel source isthe closest to the airplane that
just landed at the gate andpulled up to the gate.

(03:54:42):
We're just gonna use that,right?
But they may not have thevisibility to see.
And so if they don't have thatvisibility and that
understanding um uh of what theyhave and when they have it, it
can create issues where the lastthing you want is a shortage or
you don't have enough fuel atthis at you know at on airport
or even off airport.
And so then you have to go intothe spot market and buy fuel at

(03:55:06):
the absolute most expensiveprices.
It all comes down to data andthe availability and seeing the
data.
The airlines all have this data,the airports all have this data,
but how is it being surfaced?
How is it being consumed?
What is being done to understanduh your inventory?
What's being done from aninventory management

(03:55:26):
perspective, what's beingprocured out, you know, in the
contracts that you're lockinginto today?
What options did you sign up forin your contracts over the last
couple of years?
Do you even know whatoptionality you have in your
contracts?
When was the last time anyonelooked at those contracts?
See, these are all questions andall things that when you talk to
airlines, they're like, wow,never, you know, we just been

(03:55:49):
going because fuel's been$2.60for you know all this time, and
we've never really taken thetime to look.
But now's the time, right?
To take a look at your data andsurface it, work with it and
help it make better decisionsfor you.
And so where we are going toclients and we're saying, look
very confidently.
Sapient can help you, Mr.

(03:56:10):
Airlines, save anywhere from oneto five plus cents a gallon just
by getting this data surfaced toyou.
Like, what would that mean?
Multiply that by the gallon.
So airlines airport should betaking a look at that.
If you're a customer and you'rea flyer, Dan, the first thing
you need to be doing is buyingyour tickets now.
If you're thinking abouttraveling over Thanksgiving,

(03:56:32):
over the holidays, prices areonly gonna go up.
So I I hate to be this negativeNancy here, but it's not just me
saying this, Dan.
We are having executives, seniorexecutives from Exxon and
Chevron going on CNBC and FoxBusiness saying, look, inventory
levels we've been skating byright now based on current
inventory levels that we've beendrawing down from.

(03:56:54):
But that's gonna that's gonnadisappear.
And it's not just the US, we'retalking about China and other
large consumers of oil.
It's gonna go away.
And they say we are only a fewmonths away if nothing else
changes, where those inventorylevels are gonna run out, and
the price of oil is gonna goeven higher than where we are in
this$110,$120.

(03:57:16):
And that just means fuel pricesare gonna go up.
So please buy now and be readyif routes do get canceled, like
I just announced about you knowAmerican Airlines.
United has cut, I think, threeto five percent of their network
already, and they're gonna makethese cuts through the summer,
and they're saying it's onlygonna be through the summer, but
again, if nothing changes, it'sgonna extend.
So buy your tickets, buy themnow, and watch them like a hawk

(03:57:38):
because you never know if yourroute's gonna be canceled.
But you should still go, don'tbe scared of buying it, just be
um on top of it, right?
We want everyone to keep flying,we want everyone to enjoy those
experiences with their friendsand their family, but just buy
them now.
Don't wait.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (03:57:56):
No, that's great advice.
And I think uh our globallisteners will certainly it'll
resonate with everyone, uh,consumers and then also
businesses trying to figure outhow they're navigating the this
challenging time for ourindustry.
The other thing I would like toask you, because I again I
didn't familiar I was notfamiliar with how Podlis and
Sapien uh was involved in thisspace and and your role.
I found that quite fascinatingwhen I met you yesterday and and

(03:58:19):
having a chance to meet you andand learn a little bit more.
But tell tell us how you guysare involved in this space and
specifically, you know, with youbeing here at the conference,
what are some of the thingsyou're hoping to get out of
being here?
Obviously, clearly there's greatnetworking opportunities, but I
guess where I'm going with thisis trying to better understand
your involvement in the industryand how ultimately people

(03:58:40):
collaborate with you or mayreach out to you after hearing
this conversation.

SPEAKER_08 (03:58:44):
So SafeBean is doing some incredible things with with
the airlines uh today.
Uh things like even something asas from a technology
perspective, talking about likeuh uh legacy technology
modernization.
Think about all the airlinesthat still are using mainframes
and applications that were built40, 30, 40, 50 years ago, right?

(03:59:07):
That they're still using todayuh because uh that's what they
know.
And even though it can't besupported anymore, nobody
learned knows that code anymoreor what was how it was created
40 years ago, it's like the BonJovi method.
We're living on a prayer, hopingthat nothing breaks and
everything keeps going well.
Um, we actually have somepatented ways now that we're
able to use artificialintelligence to actually

(03:59:29):
transform and modernize andeliminate that technology debt
that airlines have beenaccumulating for years and years
and decades.
We're talking to clients todayabout that here at AFA and this
week.
Um, and we're gonna continuethose conversations.
But more importantly, we're alsotrying to plant into those minds
of the clientele that's here.
You should be thinking aboutfuel.

(03:59:50):
And that may not be your domain,but let's get connected with
your colleagues that are overthe fuel management and how they
deal with fuel procurement.
And let's have thoseconversations.
So we're using that also as aspringboard because it's not a
very fuel heavy crew crowd here,and that's fine.
We understand, but we know thatwhen we have these
conversations, we can say, wecan save you one to five cents a

(04:00:13):
gallon.
They go, ooh, that's multipliedby a lot of gallons.
Yeah, that probably is a prettyenticing conversation that's at
least worth having.
So let's get you connected, andthat's the purpose here.
And so I would say for anybodythat is listening, that is
trying to figure out here um howcan we go around and about um
this path of saving a few centshere and there, you know, reach

(04:00:36):
out, look at our website, youknow, publicesapient.com.
Um, you know, certainly you canfind me on LinkedIn at uh
Christopher P.
Russo, and my full name there.
I you know, wanted to make sureit wasn't numbers or anything
weird.
Find me on LinkedIn, find us onpublishedasapi.com.
Love to have the conversation,would love to share with you how
we are uh helping these airlinecompanies and the things that

(04:00:59):
we're doing with them to savethese few cents here and there,
because believe me, they thatall adds up.

SPEAKER_10 (04:01:05):
For sure.
No, that's great.
I appreciate sharing thesedetails.
Obviously, for me, there's um uha real interest to continue this
conversation as we go intoseason eight of our podcast and
have a continued focus onaviation.
So you've certainly uh perked myinterest, I'm sure you have with
our listeners as well.
Obviously, it's great to meetyou here.
I appreciate sharing thoseinsights and also how people can

(04:01:27):
connect you with you afterwards.
And um, yeah, I certainly lookforward to keeping in touch and
hopefully having you back on theshow at some point.

SPEAKER_08 (04:01:34):
That's fantastic, Dan.
It was a real pleasure chattingwith everybody here and having
me on.
Thank you so much.
And looking forward to the nextconversation.
Let's cross our fingers herethat something happens and we
can maybe start celebratingthose fuel prices going down
sooner than later.

SPEAKER_10 (04:01:49):
Yeah, here, here.
Sounds great.
Thanks again, Chris.
Thank you.
Our next guest is Judy McMurtry,and she is the owner founder of
JM Express.
Cell consulting.
She actually joined us last yearat this event and gave me a huge
amount of valuable advice on AFAfrom my first year.
And I'm delighted to welcome herback to the Travel Trends

(04:02:11):
Podcast and to see her again.
Judy, great to see you.
Terrific to be here at AFAtogether.

SPEAKER_21 (04:02:16):
Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me onthis wonderful podcast.
I really um enjoy listening toyour podcast.

SPEAKER_10 (04:02:23):
Oh, thank you so much.
It really means a lot.
And when I saw Judy yesterday onthe first day of the conference,
you mentioned you also attendedour summit last year.
And so it's wonderful not onlyto meet someone like you
educated me, and obviously I gota great deal of benefit from our
conversation last year tounderstand the aviation industry
that we're ha had just reallykind of started to focus on.
And let's start there becauseyou have a very impressive

(04:02:46):
background in aviation.
So tell everyone about yourbackground and what you do.

SPEAKER_21 (04:02:51):
Well, I used to work for Delta Airlines, but prior to
that it was Northwest.
So Northwest Delta Combined is33 and a half years in that
industry.
Amazing.
I always said I did everythingbut fix them and fly them from
reservations, customer service,um management, cargo.
I've worked projects with themas well, and software, developed
software systems with them.

(04:03:12):
And so COVID came and I decidedto retire after 33 years.
I my last location wasPhiladelphia.
I worked as a station manager inPhiladelphia, also ran Baltimore
for six months as well.
And when I arrived inPhiladelphia, what I used to do
is go into underperformingoperations and turn them around.

(04:03:33):
So at Philadelphia, we were 19out of 21 at the time I went in.
And within six months, we turnedthat operation around and became
number one and stayed in the topfive for the six and a half
years I was there.
And what I discovered is I wasreally good at working with
people as well as processes, andthat's pretty rare.

(04:03:55):
It's usually one or the other,but I do both.
So I start with the people andwe look at the processes as well
as technology, and that's how weable to move the needle and
perform.

SPEAKER_10 (04:04:06):
Very cool.
And I want to just highlight toour listeners as well.
When we met last year, and notonly did we have a chance to
record together, we also had achance to speak more at length
over the course of a couple ofdays.
And I could see the way thatpeople gravitated to you
afterwards, the relationshipsyou have in the industry.
Uh, when someone really respectsand admires someone's work, and
you are clearly able to thencreate a consulting business, a

(04:04:28):
successful consulting business,off of those uh the back of your
success in the industry andthose relationships.
And I want to make sure that allof our listeners know where to
find you right as we're havingthe start of this conversation,
which is Excel with Judy.com.
So Excel E X uh C E L as you'dexpect.
Um and so tell everyone aboutthe business that you started

(04:04:49):
and the types of customers thatyou are focusing on.

SPEAKER_21 (04:04:52):
Well, it's more mid-sized to larger
organizations who uh need toscale.
They have gotten stuck and theydon't know why.
Um they're stuck most of thetime, it's their infrastructure.
They start small and then theyexcel pretty fast and they don't
have a solid infrastructure.
So I've worked with chambers,um, nonprofits, marketing

(04:05:15):
companies, clinics, as well asutility, uh Viola, the number
one global company in the worldfor water and water waste
company.
I work with them as well.
And I've worked with MonroeEnergy, which is um a fuel
company as well.
So it's a various industriesthat I have worked in, not just

(04:05:35):
one, but most of the time I goin and work with the team and
identify gaps, and we're able toum align the people with it, and
we can scale the business atthat point.

SPEAKER_10 (04:05:49):
Well, I know your mission is total business
turnaround, and that's you know,the when you've uh when you've
had experience insideorganizations like I have as
well, when you then do advisorywork, you have a unique
perspective from the outsidelooking in that when people get
you know that expression aboutthe forest through the trees,
right?
You can actually come into anenvironment and you can see the
forest and you can see howpeople are functioning inside

(04:06:11):
the forest and makerecommendations for how they can
improve.
I would love if you wouldn'tmind sharing a couple of
examples of how you've donethat.

SPEAKER_21 (04:06:18):
Okay, so I went into a clinic, five clinics um in
Louisiana, and it's a physicaltherapy uh clinic.
And I walked and asked talked tothe employees, and we
interviewed employees and walkedaround and and looked at her
processes, her standardoperating procedures, her KPIs,

(04:06:40):
and saw they were misaligned.
Also, she had people on her teamthat she didn't even know what
they did because they didn'thave updated, you know, um job
descriptions or anything likethat.
So that was a good example.
And so after I worked with herteam and we identified and put
all of those processes in place,we were able to turn it around

(04:07:01):
and she started gr growing herbusiness again.

SPEAKER_10 (04:07:03):
Well, that's great.
And that will and let's bring usback to aviation and AFA and
what uh what brings you backthis year given you've got so
much experience in the industryand you helped educate me so
much last year.
What were some of the reasonsyou came back to AFA this year
and what are some of thebenefits you've seen from the
last couple of days?

SPEAKER_21 (04:07:20):
I came back to aviation.
It's always gonna have a specialspot in my heart for aviation,
and I just love to see what newtrends.
Right now I'm a businesstraveler, so it's important to
me to know what the aviationindustry is doing because I need
to understand the impact that'sgonna have as I'm traveling out
here to other business.

(04:07:40):
So now I'm on the other side ofaviation and see how customers
in the past experience becausebefore I know the ins and outs.
So uh I'm also seeing if I cancome in and help um solve any of
the problems because I do seeboth sides.
So I do want to work with someof the airlines and airports to
help solve some problems thatI'm seeing as a customer now.

SPEAKER_10 (04:08:02):
And you were might mentioning some of the the
trends as we sat down to speakto each other about where the
industry is headed in 2026.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're seeing, both with
the clients you're working withand and the industry at large.

SPEAKER_21 (04:08:14):
Okay, so what I'm seeing, and it's actually being
it's coming out now more thanever, but by 2030, 45 to 55
percent of boomers are eligiblefor retirement.
So I'm seeing that all thatknowledge is walking out the
door.
It's in their head, it's notwritten down in systems, they're
not training the next personcoming up, and the younger

(04:08:36):
people that are coming up arevery technical, they're very
smart, but they lack a littlebit of social skills as well as
critical thinking.
Um, they're not able to pivot,make changes, anything that
comes up, you know, and they'rehigh in anxiety as well.
So you have that piece that'scoming up.
And I'm working with someinterns now, and they're good
with technology, but when itcomes down to going through a

(04:08:59):
project, full cycle of aproject, they are more want to
say whatever chat says, that'swhat they do.
They don't want to explorebeyond that and they feel that's
the first thing that they shoulddo.
And it takes you about 20 timesto say it in different ways so
they can understand it.
So it's all about working tounderstand one another and

(04:09:20):
respecting them so they'll knowthat they're important too, and
I can learn from them as well asthey learn from me.

SPEAKER_10 (04:09:25):
Yeah.
No, and one of the things that'sbeen an interesting topic that's
come up here too isaccessibility.
Um, and um, and so that'ssomething that we're gonna uh
put more focus on for sure,because here um there's been
several conversations we've hadaround that.
Is that something that you dosee impact the industry in the
next few years that yeah, Idon't think we're putting a lot
of emphasis on accessibility.

SPEAKER_21 (04:09:47):
I don't see much changes with it.
From all my years with theairline industry, I'm sorry, I'm
done.
I don't see change with it.
I don't.

SPEAKER_10 (04:09:58):
Yeah, it seems like there the intention is there.
Yes, you know, but obviously uhwe'll see how it actually uh
it's all I'll I'll switch thatone.
I'll scrap that question.
Um the uh because I wanted topick up on the other trends that
you're seeing.
Is there is there another anyother trend?
Because I didn't want to ask youa redundant question.
Yeah.
So I was gonna try and talkabout some of the trends I'm
seeing to get your take on.
AI technology, they're like, umis there anything you'd like to

(04:10:20):
comment on that?

SPEAKER_21 (04:10:21):
Well, what I'm want to comment on that is not just
about AI, it still takes peoplebecause you have to put the
right prompt in and you gottaunderstand what it is and buy-in
of the frontline.
One thing, it's a lot of silosthat's happening.
So they may take AI and put itin the um maintenance department
and utilize it, but it may havean impact on what the rent does,

(04:10:42):
you know, and they don't workwith each department.
Uh silos is a big one too.
Yeah, it's a big trend that I'mseeing that they need to break
that down and they need to workwith frontline employees so they
can buy-in as well as they bringit in, because a lot of
employees are feeling that AI isgonna take over their job, and
it's not really about that, it'sabout enhancing what they do so

(04:11:03):
they can have that creativespace to do more in a different
area.
But if the employer is not umtraining the employees to go
elevate them in a differentlevel, then you have that fear
of the unknown about AI.
That's what I'm seeing too.

SPEAKER_10 (04:11:20):
One other thing that also stood out to me here at the
number of airlines that are herethis year for this conference,
including major executives forLatam or WestJet, and uh and so
the you obviously have theexperience at Northwest and with
with Delta.
When you look at the industrynow, what do you which airlines
do you look at as kind of beingthe most innovative and doing

(04:11:42):
some of the most uh uhinteresting work in this space
in the in the US marketspecifically?

SPEAKER_21 (04:11:46):
Oh, when you say U.S., that makes it a little bit
narrow.
Okay, well you can give me both.
Judy, tell me international anddomestic market.
I would say um Asia is um uhgoing further and above and
beyond what we're doing here inum the US.
But the US is focused on whatcustomers see per se, but
they're missing what employeesneed so they can enhance their

(04:12:08):
job, so they can provide abetter customer experience.
But yeah, I see Delta is they'reworking to get into the into
innovating their organizations,but one fun funds make a
difference, and where do youstart?
You have so much that you needto correct and blend AI into, so

(04:12:30):
where do you start?
Especially with the legacysystems they have, that makes it
even more challenging.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:12:35):
And for those people who have never attended an AFA
before, and just like youeducated me last year, and uh
now I get the chance to see youagain with a you know a better
knowledge and understandingabout this conference and how it
all works.
What would you say to thosepeople that are considering
attending next year as far asthe benefits of coming to an
event like AFA?
Is the networking, is thesessions combination of both?
What would be the reasons you'dsuggest people consider coming

(04:12:56):
to this event?

SPEAKER_21 (04:12:56):
I'd say the combination of both because it's
always something new and trendycoming out, and you want to
always keep yourself educated towhat's going on.
I mean that aviation is a bigpart of our economy, and you
want to always know what's goingon, and it definitely makes a
difference.
So I would say both, honestly.
And the networking is awesometoo.

(04:13:17):
You meet some great people andcollaboration is key for this
year too and beyond.

SPEAKER_10 (04:13:22):
Definitely.
And I know I mean I mentionedthe website, but uh what would
be the other ways for people toconnect with you after this and
to be able to reach out if theywant to collaborate with you at
JMXL Consulting and just be ableto follow what you're doing?

SPEAKER_21 (04:13:34):
Okay, they can connect with me on LinkedIn as
well.
Um under Judy McMurtry underLinkedIn, and also they can even
email me at JM at um excel withJudy.com.
Again, JM at excelwithjudy.comor www.excel with Judy.com is my

(04:13:54):
um website, and they can feelfree to connect with me that way
as well.

SPEAKER_10 (04:13:59):
Fantastic.
Well, Judy, it's been great tosee you again.
Good luck with your sessionlater today, and I look forward
to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_21 (04:14:04):
Okay, thank you.
I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_10 (04:14:08):
And my next guest here at the AFA conference in
beautiful Miami is someone I wasactually really fascinated to
speak to and bring into thisepisode because I had a chance
to meet her yesterday and tolearn a little bit more about uh
why they're here and what theydo.
Her name is Chloe Diet, and sheis the Director of Sales and
Business Development at T7International Group.

(04:14:28):
Chloe, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_17 (04:14:31):
Thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (04:14:34):
Well, I know this is your first time.
I was here last year, as ourlisteners know.
Um yeah, the weather hasn'tcooperated this year, but the
event from my perspective uh hasbeen a great success, and
obviously it was great to meetyou yesterday.
And um I I would love to startwith what you guys do, because I
was so intrigued with ourconversation when yourself and
two colleagues came over uh uhto speak with me yesterday and

(04:14:54):
explained uh what you guys do.
I'm a huge dog lover, so I can'twait to get into what you guys
do.
But let's first give ourlisteners a bit of an
understanding about uh the T7group and what you guys do.
And of course, you're actuallyyou're here in Miami, but you're
actually based in London.

SPEAKER_17 (04:15:08):
Yeah, that's right.
So um to start off with, um, whyit's so intriguing is because T7
International Group does notcome from aviation or from dogs,
which is exactly what we'regonna speak about today and what
we spoke about yesterday, ofcourse.
Um so we are actually uh born inthe telecoms industry, um, and
we're specialized in providingcustomized solutions for
telecoms operators, systemsintegrators, and everything in

(04:15:30):
between.
Um, so essentially we supportwith predictive, proactive
monitoring maintenance fromequipment old to new, um, and we
support a variety of industries.
Now we are branching intoaviation for various reasons,
not just this one, um, in termsof monitoring, uh looking after
SLAs, for example, across thewhole network and IT sector.

(04:15:52):
Um, but the reason that we arehere in Miami this year is to
speak about a new development ofours, which is based on
artificial intelligence and atechnology that's called
computer vision that we usedaily.
We don't realize we use it.
Uh, we use it to unlock ouriPhones, for example, or our
Androids, you know, whicheverone you've got.
Um, and we are looking to adaptthat to dogs.

(04:16:15):
And we have developed a productthat we can use uh on a daily
basis as well, hopefully,eventually in the future, for
our dogs, which is a lot lessevasive, um, you know, invasive
as microchips.
And we're looking torevolutionize the dog
traceability industry and bringthat to the aviation sector as

(04:16:36):
well.

SPEAKER_10 (04:16:36):
Yeah, it was so cool.
When I saw there was a couple ofcompanies here, uh like Wolf
Air, and and I'm, you know, uhhuge dog lovers, all of our
listeners know that follow me onuh DC trips uh on Instagram.
Uh half the pictures are of mydog.
So when I'm not traveling, I'mhanging out and taking my dog
for big walks.
And um, and you guys illuminatedsomething to me that I all of a
sudden that got me excitedbecause I realized maybe

(04:16:58):
actually now, with theseairlines and with this
technology, I can actually takemy dog Moose, my beautiful
golden doodle, on epic trips aswell.
But before we get into that, Ione thing that I looked up uh
last night, knowing that we weregonna speak again today, was the
website.
So for any of you that aremultitasking when you're
listening to this, it's t7g.ai.

(04:17:18):
And I had not heard of yourcompany before, and so I went
and did a deep dive to kind ofget a sense of all the things
you guys do.
And we do a lot on AI on ourpodcast, of course.
And obviously the travelindustry is very focused on uh
AI and agentic AI, and we'redoing a summit later this year,
and we've done it for the lasttwo years on how AI is impacting
travel.
So I was particularly intriguedto understand the T7 group as an

(04:17:41):
AI company and all the differentprojects.
And then the other thing thatintrigued me, Chloe, and you
already kind of alluded to this,is the fact that when companies
are working in spaces likemobile and then transferring
over to travel, it intrigued methat you know you've come to
this conference for the firsttime with a really innovative
solution that uh resonated withme, and I'm sure lots of other
people that you've spoken to.
And so tell us a little bitabout how this came about.

(04:18:02):
Like, how did you like actuallykind of come across this idea
that then led you to, you knowwhat, we should go to an
aviation conference like AFA toshowcase this technology.

SPEAKER_17 (04:18:12):
Yeah, well, what's it got to do with what we're
doing?
Well, essentially, uh and as yousay, um, you you're combining
your um your company, yourbusiness with your personal,
right?
Everybody loves their dogs.
And and to be honest, and I'msorry to say it, but your dog
probably gets more views thanyou do on your Instagram and
probably more likes as well,right?
Um, so essentially, uh theorigin is a little bit of a sad

(04:18:34):
one, actually.
Um so the founder and creator,and who is the CEO of T7
International Group, uh, had adog called Kronos.
Um, and unfortunately, um hisdog was lost.
Um they tried to find the dog,it was found eventually, but the
microchip, uh, which isobviously an international
standard uh to be able to tracedogs, to be able to solve this

(04:18:56):
kind of issue, um, was lost, uh,which is actually quite a common
issue.
So when it's inserted inside ofthe dog's back, in between the
shoulder blades, it can becomeeasily lost inside their body.
Um, so essentially by the timethat it was actually found and
scanned, uh quite a time hadpassed.
Um by this time, as well, thebig dog had started to show

(04:19:20):
signs of being quite ill.
Um, but it was not possiblebecause of the displaced
microchip to be able to removethat to carry out an MRI scan.
Um, so we think how on earth canwe solve this issue, you know,
keep our dogs safe, uh, keep thetraceability element, combine
technology to be able to dothis, but in a less invasive

(04:19:42):
way, and ensure that dogs, youknow, this this wouldn't happen
again, that dogs are able tohave MRI scans just as we are,
um, because unfortunately uh thedog did have cancer, and this
could have been picked up a lotsooner had this issue not
occurred.
Um so we combined our knowledgeand our development, research
and development in computervision technologies, and we

(04:20:04):
found out that the dog's uniqueidentifier is its noseprint.
So just as humans have an ID, aunique thumbprint, fingerprint,
uh dog's unique ID um is itsnoseprint.
So we wanted to bring that in tobe able to improve.

SPEAKER_10 (04:20:21):
Yeah, such an amazing story, and I'm
appreciate you sharing thatbecause obviously I met the uh
CEO uh last week and he sharedthat story with me directly, and
I could tell it was trulypersonal.
Like it was the, you know, whenhe was asking about, and you
guys were both asking about mydog and then talking about uh
the fact he lost his dog, and Ididn't even realize that this
was an issue.
And thankfully, in knock onwood, I don't find myself in a
similar situation with mygorgeous little gold doodle.

(04:20:44):
I mean, I think all of us,anyone hearing that story
instantly, you're like well up,because it's uh heartbreaking uh
to hear that you know, somethingthat could have been prevented,
and I didn't even realize thechip issue as it relates to
doing an MRI, of course, itmakes complete sense if you
can't uh uh find it and extractit so that you can get an MRI
done.
But so that that was obviously achallenging story to hear.
But uh the other part you sharedthat you uh just highlighted as

(04:21:07):
well is the the nose print.
That was like another I I didnot realize that every dog has a
uh a unique nose print, whichkind of makes sense for their
species, given how importanttheir nose is, but um I wouldn't
have I wouldn't have otherwiseknown that that was a unique
identifier.
How how did you guys how did youguys come across that bit of
information that led to, okay,well now we can scan those?

SPEAKER_17 (04:21:30):
Well, that was uh a data scientist team that are a
lot smarter than I am.
Um we we we found this out withour with our research, and we
have um patent technology um tobe able to use our um computer
vision and AI um mathematicalmodels to be able to identify
dogs, um, process and validatetheir identity in that way
through their noseprint.

SPEAKER_10 (04:21:50):
So cool.
Okay, so then you actually getthe idea out of this, and then
you come up with the technology.
And then how do you look toapply it?
Because uh you highlightedsomething to me there as well,
which uh you mentioned um whenwe were speaking yesterday,
which is about this idea of uhpets that are lost or even
stolen for that matter, um,another heartbreaking situation
that unfortunately does occur,um especially for designer dogs,

(04:22:13):
and like that you know, thatyour dog could be stolen, let
alone lost, um, so you couldidentify them.
But you now develop thistechnology.
How does that apply to traveland getting a dog on a plane?

SPEAKER_17 (04:22:24):
Good question.
So um with trying torevolutionize uh dogs and create
a digital identity for them withthe app, it's pretty much an
uphill battle, you know, interms of it's not just competing
with microchips, but on aninternational scale as we would
like to uh evolve, how do weimplement something like that?
So we thought of uh smallday-to-day cases where um this

(04:22:48):
could be applied essentially.
And uh we identified the travelindustry, you know, where dogs
are either with their owners oruh they're separated from their
owners, for example, some breedsare too big, uh, they're too
large, or they're too anxious tobe able to fly with their owner
in a kennel, uh, they have to beseparated and sent through the
cargo lines.
Um, this creates a lot ofuncertainty, not just for the

(04:23:12):
dog, uh, but for the owner aswell.
And unfortunately in the travelindustry, there's not as much
traceability and security as wewould like.
So uh obviously at the moment,microchips are used.
Um, and a lot of the airlinesare using tracking systems,
which are more like a shippingmanifest, you know.
Sorry to say it, that you know,as if you're just shipping a

(04:23:32):
present uh kind of tracking,it's not necessarily as
developed as we would like it tobe or need it to be, uh, to be
able to feel secure and beingseparated from our pets.
And accidents happen, you know,uh, if you have to remove the
dog from its kennel to scan themicrochip, for example,
manually, not only does it takea lot of time, but it's also

(04:23:53):
quite anxiety inducing for thedog.
Uh, there's been situations inairports, and as we found out
from the event speaking.
Many airlines, many situationswhere the absolute chaos is
brought about by dogs who boltas soon as the cage uh door is
opened, and it makes for apretty difficult time.
It's pretty difficult to then beable to track them.

(04:24:13):
Then so we need to make sure uhwe thought we need to make sure
uh we can create an experiencewhich is comfortable not just
for the dog, but for the owneras well, where they're sure at
the end of the journey that thedog they get back is theirs.
Sounds like a simple question.
Uh sometimes not.

SPEAKER_10 (04:24:32):
Yeah.
Well, I always feel whenever Ihear the dogs barking after
they've gotten off the plane andthey're desperate to get out.
This whole world is not familiarto me because I don't hate my
dog.
And I and uh but I um I alwaysfeel for seeing all those dogs,
especially the ones that aresmall enough they can go under
the seat or the people can takethem on their plane, the ones
that are fortunate enough tohave that special license that
they actually have like a uh asupport on services animals,

(04:24:56):
exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Yes, um, which I understandsometimes is for sure is
necessary.
Um, but I always feel terriblefor the ones that are in crates
that have been put underneathand that have been through that
shock and trauma of that wholeexperience.

SPEAKER_17 (04:25:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:25:06):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_17 (04:25:07):
Pretty understandable, right?
They're just shoved in a cageand then thrown into a dark room
and you just have to get on withit.
I mean, I think I'd probablywant to vote if someone opened
the door as well on the otherside.

SPEAKER_10 (04:25:17):
Yeah, totally.
And you're hearing other dogsbarking, and it's like, where am
I going?
So so yes, I'm really keen.
Yeah, I'm so keen now to knowwhat the response has been.
Because you I think ourlisteners can hear my response
to this, and I'm sure otherpeople are having a similar
reaction to be like, no way thisexists.
I love this idea.
But yeah, what what has been theresponse from the other people

(04:25:38):
you've met here at AFA?
And I guess what is what isgoing to be the big takeaway for
you guys after this event?

SPEAKER_17 (04:25:44):
It's been it's been great.
I mean, we're really glad tohave come.
Um, there's not just theopportunity to improve the
traceability and security, butalso to help optimize the
check-in process, the operationsin terms of document validation,
document processing.
You know, I touched upon thefact that we work with many
industries.
Um, we are professionals interms of processing, validating

(04:26:05):
data uh from telecoms networksto banks, financial industry.
And now, of course, that we'reable to use those skills and
those capabilities to integrateuh with cargo systems, um, any
operational side, for example,we can help to smooth things
along in terms of instead ofturning up to the checking
counter and having to presentabout 50 pages of documents, go

(04:26:28):
through each of them manually,if there can be some kind of
process to speed that up, to doa pre-validation, for example,
where you can upload and have adigital backup of your dog's
records as well to bring thetravel uh industry.
It's a little bit more of the21st century for dogs.
I mean, you have a dog, right?
Moose, does he have a passport?
Have you traveled with himbefore?

SPEAKER_10 (04:26:50):
Not yet.
No, and uh, no, unfortunatelynot yet, but I definitely that
that's what needs to be apriority for us.

SPEAKER_17 (04:26:56):
Well, um, so a dog passport is not quite as
sophisticated or unique as ours.
It it just looks like a printedpiece of paper and you're
writing on it with a pen.
You know, how uh can we improvethat?
How can we bring that into the21st century?
How can we give the dog as goodan experience as us, not just
when you're separated from yourdog, for example, but even the

(04:27:18):
dogs that you can bring insidethe cabin with you, right?
How cool if you can scan yourdog in and scan their boarding
pass, improve the customerexperience there.
Uh and not just in airports orwith airlines, you know.
There are many experiences now,and as you touched on upon
earlier, in terms of premiumbreeds, you know, the dog
industry and dog travel andhospitality industry is huge.

(04:27:40):
Um, we all love our dogs and wespend a lot of money nowadays on
our dogs.
Um, so if we can find a way toimprove experience in terms of
any kind of check-intraceability for doggy hotels,
resorts, um, specializedairlines, as you touched upon
earlier, cruises, um, that wouldbe great.

(04:28:00):
Um, that's what we're looking todo.

SPEAKER_10 (04:28:02):
Yeah, it's so exciting because there's so many
businesses out there that are uhdesigned for you to have a
trusted house sitter, um petsitters, and the whole idea that
you know you go away and yourdog stays behind in their home.
But how great would it be if byand large you could take your
dog with you and you could theycould, you know, the and there's
so many hotels now that are dogfriendly.
And I think for many of ourlisteners that are also dog

(04:28:24):
lovers, you just don't want itto be limited to the only the
dogs that can go on the plane.
Like it's really cute.
I love cute small dogs, but Imean, for the medium and large
dogs out there, they don'tnecessarily have the same
opportunity to travel.
So let's democratize it so thatall all of our canine friends
can journey with us.
So tell me how this applies thenin practice.
Like, where do you see thisgoing this year, next year?

(04:28:46):
And I get where I'm getting to,Chloe, obviously, is trying to
understand how listeners canpartner with you or um and even
people knowing that this couldbe an option for them in the
future.
So, how is this technology goingto be uh shared with different
partners and implemented so thatpeople can actually benefit from
this?

SPEAKER_17 (04:29:04):
So um, as mentioned, it's our first year, uh, and
this is a new application interms of we're still developing
this.
Um, so the takeaway from theevent and the main plan
essentially is to kick this offwith some proof of concepts with
some airlines, um, not just youknow, the bigger players in
terms of cargo and helping tooptimize their processes across

(04:29:24):
the board, but also um acrossmany other industries, you know,
in terms of premium uhexperiences for dogs and hotels.
We're branching out uh in termsof hotels, resorts, looking for
airports, and we're looking forpartners actively.
You know, I'd be absolutelyhappy for anybody to reach out
if they would like to work onsomething with us, if we can

(04:29:46):
help them to improve even theirum existing product portfolio by
adding a biometric layer andadding that security, we're
happy to do so.

SPEAKER_10 (04:29:55):
Oh, that's fantastic.
Well, let's make sure everyonecan do that because I definitely
this conversation could go onfor me, and I'm sure it uh for a
m a number of our listeners.
So we'll have to find a way touh to bring you back maybe for
our summit later this year orfor uh season eight, because
we've actually have been talkingfor a little while, myself and
another uh podcaster who Ireally enjoy collaborating with,
who has a podcast called Travelwith Meaning, and he's also a

(04:30:17):
big dog lover.
And sadly, uh his dog justpassed away.
And so he um him and I, yeah,and but he we've talked about
doing a series on pet travel.
Um and amazing so it would betimely to have you guys a part
of that conversation.
But um, but before all of thathappens, let's make sure in this
event spotlight from AFA here inMiami, let's make sure that

(04:30:38):
everyone knows how to connectwith you.
I obviously have mentioned thewebsite, but if you wouldn't
mind sharing uh the best ways toconnect with you and the team to
a partner on one of theseopportunities.

SPEAKER_17 (04:30:47):
Absolutely.
Um, we'll also be uh attendingthe aviation festival um in
Portugal as well.
So that would be a great placeto reach us in person.
Um but before then, uh you canreach me on my LinkedIn.
Um I think my name will bethere.
It's Chloe Diet.
It's pretty unique spelling,it's D-Y-E-D-T.
Um or you can reach my email,which is Chloe.diet at t7g.ai.

SPEAKER_10 (04:31:10):
Fantastic.
Well, I'm sure you'll have manypeople reach out.
I'm certainly keen to continuethe conversation and eventually
get Moose a passport and her hernose print.
I would just like to have it.
I'm waiting to see it.

SPEAKER_17 (04:31:20):
I'm waiting.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:31:22):
No, it's a real pleasure to meet you.
I really appreciate you and theteam coming up and uh finding us
yesterday at our booth becauseum it's always delightful for me
to meet new people at aconference like this.
And obviously, I've thoroughlyenjoyed being here at AFA, and
this is exactly why, becauseevery every once in a while
there's something that reallysparks your interest.
And uh so yeah, so real pleasureto meet you.
Good luck with this project.
And I look forward to sayinglook forward to staying in

(04:31:44):
touch.

SPEAKER_17 (04:31:45):
Thank you so much for your time.
And yeah, if you do uh a podcaston pet travel, then please do
reach out.
I think it's pretty relevant.
Thank you so much again, Dan.
It was really nice to meet youyesterday, and I hope to see you
again.

SPEAKER_10 (04:31:57):
Our next guest here recording live at the AFA
conference in beautiful Miami.
I have the chance to speak toOscar Meyer.
That's right, who is uh uh salesdirector for North America for
JR Technologies.
I had a chance to talk to Oscaryesterday about JR Technologies
and what the company does, and Ifound it really fascinating and
wanted to bring him on to thepodcast.

(04:32:19):
So, first of all, Oscar, welcometo Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_06 (04:32:22):
He's very excited to me to be uh these two days has
been amazing, and we are superexcited to introduce a game
changer for locals and regionalcarriers.
I'm talking about Travel BridgeService by JR Technologies.
If you are an airline leaderjungling with revenue leakage,
refunds, ADMs, headx, and thecomplexity of both GDS and NDC

(04:32:45):
distribution, this product isfor you.
Travel Bridge Servicespecializes in recovering the
revenue that quietly disappearbetween bookings and the VSP
close.
They run end-to-end rate auditand refund operations and NDC
servicing and providing fueltickets across major GDS
platforms.
We're here to help you andimagine a 24-7 team that

(04:33:08):
monitors implementing AI uh withthe latest technology for your
PNRs, your passengers, and youcan hear the crowd crowding in
the back.
They're cheering for you, Oscar.
They're so thrilled for you tobe on the podcast.
No doubt about it.
So, this is uh pretty muchbasically what we uh offering
right now.
And I will uh, if it's okay withyou, I would like to pass it on

(04:33:28):
over to my uh colleague RascoEilick, that he's the expert of
uh one of the best onlinebooking travel solutions, Tom
Alex.
Go ahead, Tom.

SPEAKER_10 (04:33:39):
Roscoe, welcome.
Great to have you here with usas well.
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Tell us a little bit about yourrole, and obviously, Oscar gave
us a great overview of JRtechnologies, but tell us a
little bit more about thecompany and specifically your
role.

SPEAKER_14 (04:33:52):
So the company is a tech tech company, right, uh
developing uh technology fortravel in the travel industry,
especially for airlines.
And uh my role as uh originallyas a developer of the
application, the what we callTom Alex, which is our online
booking tool.
Uh, I'm today uh the productdirector for this product uh and
see how it evolves, you know,what needs to be done and as

(04:34:15):
well how we're gonna do it withAI and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_10 (04:34:18):
That's great.
And Roscoe, have you been to AFAbefore?

SPEAKER_14 (04:34:20):
No, it's the first time.
I mean I have colleagues whocame here already, but for me
it's the first time, even thoughit's my town, right in Miami.
But uh first time.

SPEAKER_10 (04:34:26):
Well, we're clearly having this conversation on day
two, and people are superexcited about how the event has
gone, as you can hear in thebackground.
But Oscar um but I would love tohear, Roscoe.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyour first experience AFA.
What have some of the highlightsand the takeaways been for you?

SPEAKER_14 (04:34:41):
I think I like to see first, you know, how much
the uh airline industry is youknow into the uh technology, of
course, and uh a long career inthat industry too, so I know,
but to see how people are opento uh the trends, the new
technologies, AI, of course, andas well try always to see how
efficient they are.
So I think it uh it's a forum,it's nice.
Uh it's a human uh size, and youcan you know communicate with a

(04:35:03):
lot of people, which is uh verygood for networking as well, you
know, for the product that uhthird party offered to airlines
as well.
And I think for airlines tolearn, you know, the what's
what's been done, what's whatare the opportunities.

SPEAKER_10 (04:35:14):
For sure.
And I'm bring Oscar back intothe conversation on this note
because your backgroundobviously is airlines.
You worked with Aero Mexico,Travelport, and you've been in
this role for the last uh fewyears.
Tell us a little bit about whatbrought you to AFA this year and
some of the benefits you've seenfrom 2026.

SPEAKER_06 (04:35:32):
Well, this is one of the unique venues that allow you
to be in contact and haveone-on-ones with the key uh
airline providers.
Uh uh yesterday I was aroundwith David from the CEO of uh
Bridge Airways, and we werechatting about uh uh what are
the modern aviation uh trends.

(04:35:53):
Uh I was uh lucky enough to sitwith the uh uh Alaska Airlines
uh IT director and his team, andthat's amazing.
This venue gives you theopportunity to have real
conversations in real time andone-on-one with the key
providers and the uh keyaviation industry uh uh from the

(04:36:14):
US and the Americas as well.

SPEAKER_10 (04:36:16):
Well, and I'm keen to get your perspective on some
of the trends that are happeningin aviation, both with what
you're seeing at JR Technologiesand being at a conference like
this, given your background.
So tell us a little bit aboutthe overall trends in aviation
2026 from a technology point ofview.

SPEAKER_06 (04:36:30):
The game, um the name of the game right now is
who could be more efficient inorder to automate their own
process and deliverefficiencies.
I mean, those three worlds, andof course, everybody's talking
about artificial intelligence.
That's like a fashion uh avenuein the in the industry.
However, with that there is alot of challenges.

(04:36:52):
You can see that the uh field isnot getting any cheaper and
won't be cheaper.
Uh however, you can see that thetrends and how the airlines are
looking for avenues to be moreefficient and efficient in all
the ways, automating theirinternal process in order to
deliver better service.
That's my takeaway from that.

SPEAKER_10 (04:37:11):
I appreciate that.
I want to get Roscoe's take onthis as well, especially given
your role.
And I mean the company JRTechnology has been around now
for over ten years, and youknow, the you guys have been fo
focused on airlines inparticular.
I know you guys uh merged with acompany called uh Thomalex.
Yes, uh Tomalux, um, whichreally expanded your portfolio

(04:37:32):
into travel agencies and TMCs.
Um so tell us a little bit aboutthe overall trends you're seeing
from your role and also fromyour view of the industry.

SPEAKER_14 (04:37:40):
Yeah, so actually I was the owner, the you know,
owner and creator of Tomalex, sowe we merged with the Well I'm
glad I asked you that questionthen.

SPEAKER_10 (04:37:47):
I didn't realize that.
Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_14 (04:37:48):
So yeah, so I'm well placed.
Uh I think uh via IT shop,right?
So our focus was really uh withNDC because NDC, as you know,
probably uh started like many,many years ago, even though it's
still called new distributioncapability.
However, uh we have seenairlines now evolve a lot uh
about that.
We got involved a lot, we uhparticipated actively in that uh

(04:38:11):
development of the technology.
So uh we see that uh it'sgetting you know mature now, and
uh that uh airlines are startingto look into, like my colleague
said, about AI and how toefficiency use AI for automation
distribution.
And I think that's gonna be thenext challenge for the airlines.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:38:29):
And in terms of where JR technologies is headed,
especially now, I mean, thismerger is only you know within
the last two years.
So tell us a little bit aboutyou know this new unified force
and uh where you're looking tonavigate this company over the
next year or you know, the nextfew years.

SPEAKER_14 (04:38:44):
Yes, so we unified forces because we thought you
know we saw that they areefficiency and uh shared
knowledge.
So we are developing uh coupleyou know, booking tools and as
well as applications formanaging orders and uh and uh
providing to airlines uhpossibility to manage the
loyalty as well, you know, uhsell loyalty uh you know tickets
or I would say you know onflights and so on.

(04:39:07):
So where we are evolving is thatwe uh we are able to address the
needs of airlines as well, aswell, you know, the travel
agencies and TMCs but that gowith the airlines often.
So we see ourselves assupporting the airlines,
especially the I would say themid-market and you know,
regional airlines, as mycolleague said.
I think that's the we canprovide the best value.
The large airlines have theirown capabilities, their

(04:39:28):
technologies, and so on.
But we are there to support, youknow, the the I would say
mid-sized airlines and uh youknow regional ones with our
technologies.

SPEAKER_10 (04:39:37):
Yeah, fantastic.
And obviously, one of the bigfocus areas in terms of growth
is certainly the Latin Americanmarket, and we've actually
talked about that on thispodcast as well.
And given uh Oscar, your roleand your background, I know you
live in Texas and you're acowboy, so you've got the uh the
American connection as well.
But uh you obviously are uh uh anative Spanish speaker, and so I

(04:39:58):
would presume that there's lotsof opportunity in Mexico and
Latin America to continue toexpand.
I know you guys did a bigstrategic partnership with Navan
recently, all the way into likethe Philippines, and you've got
some you know significantpartners like Unilever.
Um tell us a little bit of uhwhere you guys are headed and
some of the uh the uh you don'thave to tell us about the deals
you're working on, but tell us alittle bit about where the
company's headed uh from your uhthe vantage point of your role.

SPEAKER_06 (04:40:21):
For sure.
Um this year, uh Mark, nowadaysa great uh uh achievement for JR
Technologies.
We are the exclusive uh umtechnology provider for Navan uh
regional offices uh based onCosta Rica, uh Panama,
Guatemala, and Central and SouthAmerica as well.

(04:40:43):
And we're coming to Mexico aswell very soon.
I can I can tell you moredetails, but we are super
excited.
And this is just the beginninguh as well.
We are providing and we are onconversations uh to be uh uh an
exclusive uh uh technologypartner with some of the uh most
modern uh Mexican airlines andmoving forward as well with

(04:41:06):
LATIM and COPA in the nearfuture.
So could be better.
Uh Latin America is on my veins,and we come in there with JR
technologies.

SPEAKER_10 (04:41:14):
That's fantastic.
And I highlight that because oneof our sponsors of a regular
season is Civitadas, based inMadrid.
They're exclusively focused onthe Spanish-speaking market and
the growth that they've seen,especially from uh people
traveling from Spain and people,Spanish-speaking travelers
traveling to otherSpanish-speaking countries, um,
there's been a significantincrease.
And that makes total sensebecause we've been so focused in

(04:41:36):
many ways with English languagespeakers traveling to English
language markets and the thegrowth potential, especially in
Latin America, with all theregional travel of people
traveling within uh LatinAmerica.
So um, that's another excitingdevelopment.
And so, um, in terms ofconnecting with you and the team
and being able to reach out,obviously, I mentioned uh the

(04:41:56):
website, I know you're active onLinkedIn as well.
Um, but what would be the bestway for listeners to the podcast
to be able to connect with you,Oscar?

SPEAKER_06 (04:42:03):
And then I'll finish off on that with you too, Roscoe
uh from my side, uh just go tothe JRtechnologies.com and you
can find my uh my uh informationover there.
Book uh uh anytime 24-7.
Uh we're eager to uh provide uhthe service that you're looking
for, and just reaching out thepage.

(04:42:24):
Uh we got a call center in India24-7, we got another another
consultant in the Philippines,as my colleague mentioned, and
as well our call center inGreece.
So we never sleep and we'relooking forward to for your
business.

SPEAKER_10 (04:42:36):
Hasta la vista, baby.
I love it.
And it's uh Oscar Mejia is umOscar O-S-C-A-R and then
M-E-J-I-A on LinkedIn.
And just make sure you do add JRTechnologies and to find them
and connect with them therebecause you are very active and
you're posting regularly, and sopeople can see your updates and
where you're traveling to.

(04:42:57):
Um, because when I look at yourLinkedIn profile in preparation
of our conversation, I'm like,you've been everywhere over the
last like, you know.
So uh anyway, great to meet you.
Likewise, thank you for havingus.
Roscoe, so how best for ourlisteners to be able to connect
with you as well after this?

SPEAKER_14 (04:43:10):
Yes, uh, they can contact me directly, you know,
through as well through the JavaTechnologies website.
Uh but we have as well atomalex.com, uh, which uh you
know provide information aboutthe solution itself.
Uh so this is that I can bereached on LinkedIn too.
I am present, Rasco R-A-S-T-K-O,Ilik I L-I-C.
And uh you can find me,especially if you type Tom Alex.

(04:43:30):
Um, just little little thing,you know, often people ask me
why why the name Tom Alex, soeasy to remember.
That's the names of my two sons,Thomas and Alexander.

SPEAKER_13 (04:43:38):
Uh Tom Alex.

SPEAKER_14 (04:43:39):
So that's how you can remember the name and uh
product and contact uhcolleagues at JR Technologies,
especially my colleague Oscar.

SPEAKER_10 (04:43:46):
I was gonna I was gonna ask you that, and um uh
and obviously you've met my son.
Um you guys have been kindenough to collaborate with my
son to make sure we got thisscheduled in, which uh uh do you
mind me asking?
How old are your boys now?

SPEAKER_14 (04:43:58):
Well uh adults, right?
Yeah, men, right?
Uh yeah, yeah.
So like you know, 37, 53.

SPEAKER_10 (04:44:03):
And then just to finish off, obviously you've um
uh as far as where where are youbased again?
I'm based here in Miami.
Yeah, perfect.
So you're home.
So you're yeah, I'm gonnacommute back for you after this.
Yeah, um, what's the next picktrip that you have planned,
business or personal?

SPEAKER_14 (04:44:16):
Well, usually I go, you know, because I'm originally
French, so I go, you know, toEurope uh every year, spend a
few months there.
So usually probably will beFrance first and then from there
in some you know other countriesthat travel a lot.
I've been in the travel industryfor many, for more than 30
years.
So of course, that's one of thereasons that people love travel
industry, you know, to travel.

SPEAKER_10 (04:44:35):
Totally.
We're coming up to the best timeof the year to travel through
Europe and probably a good timeto be out of Florida given how
hot it gets this time of theyear.
Yes, yes.
But um, what a great place to bebased.
And uh a real pleasure to meetyou too, Roscoe, and certainly
wish you and the team at JRTechnologies every success this
year.
And I'm sure many listeners willbe reaching out to you after
this.
So thanks again for joining us.

SPEAKER_14 (04:44:52):
Thank you.
Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_10 (04:44:55):
My next guest here live at the AFA Festival.
I actually have two guests.
I've got the CEO and the CTO ofAero Link Systems.
I'm first going to bring inCaleb Neal, who's the CEO, and
then we're gonna bring in GregLangston, who is the CTO.
I've had a chance to connectwith Caleb over the last couple
of days here at the conference.
He's met my son Oliver, who's soimpressed with what Caleb does

(04:45:15):
because he's a pilot, he knowshis industry really well.
So, first of all, Caleb, welcometo Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_23 (04:45:21):
You know what?
It is a privilege to be heretoday.
Thank you so much for having meon the podcast.
Uh it's also a privilege to beat Aviation Festival America's.
It's a it's it's it's been agreat time getting to talk to
you, getting to talk to yourson, getting to meet all these
people in this beautifulindustry uh that we are a part
of.

SPEAKER_10 (04:45:36):
Well, tell everyone about AeroLink Systems and what
you guys do.
I know you're based inWashington, and tell everyone
about your little bac yourbackground as a pilot as well.

SPEAKER_23 (04:45:44):
Yeah, so I'm a I'm a pilot.
Actually, Greg's a pilot too.
Uh he's got his PPL.
Funny thing, I've got aboutsixty flight hours, but I don't
have my uh have my cert.
I uh every single time I wasgetting ready to take my check
ride, something somethinghappened.
There was a move.
Um I actually was in themilitary for Before I was part
of AeroLink Systems, and uh youknow I would always be moving
with the military, and I nevergot to finish my check ride.

(04:46:06):
Uh but I have 60 hours of flighttime.
Absolutely love flying.
I definitely want to get into uhback into it one day.
Aero Link Systems, I'll tell youabout what we do here.
Uh multimodal transportation,right?
That's a lot of words, right?
So, how do we take that downinto something really easily
digestible?
Um, we provide ground airintegration.
So the the the most frictionthat travelers experience on

(04:46:29):
their trip usually occurs, in inour experience, getting to and
from the airport.
That can be the most expensive,most uncertain, most difficult
part of a trip, right?
Once you're at the airport,there are a lot of pain points,
right?
People talk about pain pointslike security and check-in and
bag check, right?
But all that uncertainty kind ofgets lumped up in ground
transportation, really.

(04:46:50):
Um I'll even use an example.
Greg and I traveled here from uhfrom the St.
Louis region, because Greg'sbased out of St.
Louis, and we flew out ofBelleville Mid-America Airport,
for those of you who arefamiliar, into Sanford.
We took a Legion Airlines.
We needed to get a bright line,so we were doing a multimodal
trip.
We needed to get a bright linedown to down to Miami.

(04:47:12):
But to get to the Bright Linestation, we needed to take an
Uber from Sanford Airport,right?
How much did that Uber cost,Greg?
I think$70.
$80.
So we paid as much, you know, wewere flying the Legion, we paid
as much as we did for the Uberas we did for the flight.
Right.
So that's kind of we're tryingto clear up um all the friction
that occurs on those trips andfind um existing ground

(04:47:34):
transportation connections, helpground transportation providers,
like for example, in Sanford,provide a fixed route shuttle
service for a lower cost forpeople going to Brightline or to
downtown Orlando or to Disney,right?
The demand is there, but theecosystem is so fragmented that
people often just end updefaulting to an Uber.

SPEAKER_10 (04:47:52):
And so this is one of the things I multimodal
transportation.
When Caleb and I were talkingyesterday, he was like, if you
want someone on the podcast thatcan give you like the best ways
to get in and out of Washington,DC, and I was like, actually,
this is so let's let's answerthat question.
And um that for people who aretrying to wrap their head around
the best ways of uh getting to acity like Washington, how do you

(04:48:14):
break that down for customersand and how do you work with
clients to do that?

SPEAKER_23 (04:48:18):
So yeah, so uh there's a couple different
angles, right?
If you're a traveler going toWashington, DC, you actually
have a lot of options, right?
The the Northeast corridor isincredibly well transit
connected.
You got flights, you got trains,you got buses, you got lots of
different options to get around,right?
So if you're coming into the toWashington, DC, you know, flying

(04:48:39):
directly into like DCA mightcost you four or five hundred
dollars.
But what you know, what if youcan fly into Philadelphia and
that only costs$100,$200, right?
And then take a train down toWashington, DC, you might have
just saved yourself two or threehundred dollars, right?
On your on your total trip.
But taking an itinerary thatmany would call non-traditional,

(04:49:00):
right?
Um we can help you find thoseopportunities as a traveler.
And then as an airline, youknow, if you were an airline
based out of DC and you didn'thave the the capacity to operate
out of, you know, Philadelphia,but you wanted to still service
people in Philadelphia, youcould list your uh list ground
transportation as an ancillaryin your platform, connect it to

(04:49:23):
your flight, and then now you'remarketing flights to people in
Philadelphia without having tooperate metal at PHL or any of
the Philadelphia area airports.
You can improve your passengerflow uh uh in in your DC hub and
and you know maybe up gaugeeventually, get more revenue,
all that.

SPEAKER_10 (04:49:41):
Now, on this topic, I want to bring in Greg, your
CTO, and the reason why isbecause I was preparing for our
conversation, Caleb, and I waslooking at AeroLink's website,
which is go aeroink.io, forthose of you who want to
multitask at home.
And there's a really cool buildyour own path so you can
seamlessly connect flights,trains, and ground transit.
You can just enter a destinationand start exploring your

(04:50:02):
multi-model, multimodal journey.
So, Greg, clearly you're the onethat built this.
Tell us a little bit about thewhole platform infrastructure
and who utilizes this.

SPEAKER_09 (04:50:13):
Well, I can't take full credit, Dan, but first of
all, thanks for having me aswell.
It's been an incredible likeconference for for both of us.
Um Caleb really came up with theMVP concept, but I'm a private
pilot myself, and so when weconnected, it was really
obvious.
Um, you know, I think in systemsand operational things, right?
And so having disruptions like,you know, getting off the

(04:50:33):
airport and and managing yourground transportation through a
PDF that you have to manageyourself, like we thought we
could do better.
So, really the intention here isto build a seamless end-to-end
experience for passengers to gothrough their entire travel
journey.
Um, so right now we've releasedthe web application, which
really is the booking and thepassenger itinerary management

(04:50:54):
component of it.
We're really excited.
We're working on the digitalconcierge next phase of our
platform, which is gonna be theagentic, follow your itinerary
through end-to-end, get you fromsource to destination.
It's gonna walk you through thewhole process.
We're really excited about it.

SPEAKER_10 (04:51:11):
Awesome.

SPEAKER_23 (04:51:12):
And I I I can talk a little bit more just about the
digital concierge to give yousome like visualization of what
this is gonna look like, right?
So imagine you you know you stepoff your airplane, uh, you just
landed in Sanford like we did.
But instead of so what we had todo, right?
Got off the plane, wentdownstairs to the to the ride
share area, you know, pushed thebuttons on the on the Uber app

(04:51:33):
and ordered the Uber, waitedprobably 10 minutes, came and
picked us up and paid 70 bucks.
Digital concierge, the wholeidea behind this is you step off
your airplane, digital conciergethrough flight tracking, knows
that you landed.
So you get a push notificationand it says, hey, your bus to
downtown Orlando to the BrightLine Station is at door 312

(04:51:55):
downstairs, go this way, yourdriver's waiting.
The driver of the shuttle,because we also work with ground
transportation operators, thedriver of the shuttle on the
other end can see, hey, Caleband Greg just landed.
So I'm gonna be ready for themin about five minutes, right?
And then you know, Caleb andGreg, follow the instructions,
go to the shuttle, and you know,maybe between us now, instead of

(04:52:16):
paying$80, we're paying$50,$40,and we're still getting there.
But then throughout the rest ofour multimodal journey, digital
concierge is there.
So when we get off of theshuttle at the Bright Line
station, same thing.
Instructions on how to get toBrightline.
We are really acting as theconnective tissue within the
transportation system, and wehave the data and the expertise
to do that.

SPEAKER_10 (04:52:44):
What brought you and Caleb this year and what have
been some of the highlights ofbeing here?

SPEAKER_23 (04:52:48):
So um, yeah, so for airlines, one of the big things
that that I that I'm learningmeeting with airlines here is
that uh managing relationshipswith ground transportation
providers is is difficult,right?
So we've talked to a number ofairlines here, and and really
what AeroLink offers is a valueproposition to those air
carriers is that you know we canprovide ground transportation

(04:53:09):
not just for day-to-dayoperations, but for IROPs.
If you need to take people fromuh a flight that diverted
somewhere and transport them 50miles, you know, um to it to
their destination, right?
We can coordinate that becausewe manage relationships with
ground transportation providers.
Ultimately, multimodality goesbeyond normal operations and can
and and can dip into that IROPsuh sphere as we start to talk

(04:53:33):
about that.
So if you're an airline, wewould love to talk to you about
uh what AeroLink and uh whatwhat we can do for you, the
value we have.

SPEAKER_10 (04:53:40):
Caleb, it's really interesting, obviously, to get
your perspective on this.
Greg, I want you to jump in andshare your experience of the
first year at AFA.

SPEAKER_09 (04:53:48):
Yeah, it's been incredible um just to see like
the how how much focus there ison air airlines and airport
operators from a customerexperience standpoint.
And that's that's what we'rehoping to create inside our
platform.
So um it's been great to workwith and meet a whole diverse
set of people here at theconference.

SPEAKER_10 (04:54:09):
And one more question for you, Greg, and then
I'll go back to Caleb as far aswhat's next for AeroLink in the
next kind of six to twelvemonths, some of the things
you're working on and some ofthe clients that you want to
connect with uh as a result ofbeing here at the event and for
listeners of our podcast.

SPEAKER_09 (04:54:22):
Right, absolutely.
So um Caleb's already mentioned,you know, um cruise carriers as
an example, and that's one areawe can kind of evolve into.
We're really pressing hard overthe next six to twelve months on
that digital concierge serviceto give that true passenger
end-to-end experience.
Um, and like Caleb said, we'regonna be leveraging our
experience as you know, privatepilots and and uh in the

(04:54:45):
industry.
Caleb has a ton of expertise inthe industry.
We're gonna be leveraging thatover the next six to twelve
months.
So coming soon, we'll have anupdate on the website here
probably by tomorrow about thatdigital concierge announcement.

SPEAKER_10 (04:54:57):
Fantastic.
Greg, great to meet you.
Thanks for joining us here.

SPEAKER_09 (04:54:59):
Thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (04:55:00):
And Caleb, I want to bring you back into the last
word here.
Obviously, you've been buildingthis company over the last few
years.
Tell us a little bit more aboutwhere you're headed and what
you're most excited about forAeroLink.
And obviously, I want to makesure that people after this can
follow up and connect with youand the team.

SPEAKER_23 (04:55:13):
I am extraordinarily excited for our digital
concierge service, and andultimately what what we're
really gonna end up doing is uhmanaging relationships with
ground transportation partnersand airlines and cruise carriers
and really acting as aconnective tissue for the the
transportation industry right asa whole.
So getting people from point Ato point B, door to door, right?

(04:55:35):
Uh each mode does things well,right?
Shuttle operators, they do greatjob at operating a ground
shuttle.
Airlines, great job at operatingtheir flights, right?
But we want to operate inbetween and and and connect all
those modes together and managerelationships in a way that is
mutually beneficial to theentire transportation system at
large.

SPEAKER_10 (04:55:55):
Fantastic.
And I know you guys are both onLinkedIn.
I know we're connected.
Um and I've mentioned thewebsite, of course, uh
goarolink.io, which I definitelyencourage everyone to check out,
if only to just actually buildtheir own path and just check
out how the system works, whichis actually really cool.
Um tell everyone how how else toconnect with you with email,
LinkedIn, what are the best waysto reach out?

SPEAKER_23 (04:56:14):
Yeah, so LinkedIn's always great.
I'm very responsive on there.
Um on the website we have a tabthat's for transportation
operators.
You can also create an account.
So if you're a traveler, uh youcan create an account, right?
It's free.
We're not gonna spam you withemails, so you can uh create an
account, set your home airport,and then uh when you go to book
a book a trip on AeroLink, it'llauto-populate all your details

(04:56:35):
for us.
So we can do uh um all thatloyalty, loyalty number, you can
put that in there.
And then uh if you're atransportation operator, whether
you're in the ground or in theair, we want to talk with you.
So um creating an operatoraccount, you can go into the uh
partner with us tab, and thenyou can follow the prompts in
there to send us a contact.
I am also uh gonna throw myemail in here.

(04:56:56):
If anybody wants to email me,it's k-a-l-e-b dot n-e-a-l at
goarolink.io, just like our ourour domain name.
Please send me a contact.
I'd love to reach out, and and Ijust always love meeting new
people and learning about theirexperiences.

SPEAKER_10 (04:57:09):
Yeah, well, I love the energy that both uh Caleb
and Greg have brought to AFA.
It's been a real pleasuremeeting with you guys.
We had some good chatsyesterday, so I was keen to get
you guys into the spotlightepisode.
I'm sure you'll have a number ofpeople that will reach out.
Uh they'll be very interested inwhat you guys are building.
And so uh definitely check theseguys out.
It's really cool to seeentrepreneurs like Caleb and
Greg, and especially people thathave such a passion for

(04:57:31):
innovation and are pilotsthemselves.
It's a really inspiring story,and I'm keen to see your
continued success and connectagain next year.
And so uh good luck witheverything and look forward to
staying in touch.

SPEAKER_23 (04:57:41):
Hey, dude, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_10 (04:57:44):
Our next guest here live at the AFA conference in
Miami.
We actually have two people thatare kindly joining us for this
next conversation.
And I'm first gonna bring inDavid Fister, who is the
Strategic Alliances Manager atZS Associates, or us Canadians
would say ZS, but ZS since we'rehere in the US.
David, welcome to Travel Trends.

(04:58:04):

SPEAKER_12 (04:58:05):
Hey, thanks, Dan.
Happy to be here.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_10 (04:58:07):
I've had a chance to meet a few of your colleagues.
Your booth is right behind us,and I know I as soon as I
arrived at the conference, Inoticed the number of people
that are here from ZS.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit more about what you guys do
and then obviously your role aswell?

SPEAKER_12 (04:58:19):
Yeah, ZS, we're actually the biz biz biggest
consulting firm you've neverheard of.
15,000 people, 40 offices aroundthe world.
Um, you know, helping ourclients solve their hardest
problems.

SPEAKER_10 (04:58:30):
That explains how you managed to get the name
ZS.com or the domain name.
So for all of our listeners whoare multitasking while we're
having this conversation.
Tell us a little bit aboutaviation and your specialty in
this specific industry and whatbrings you to AFA.

SPEAKER_12 (04:58:44):
Yeah, so ZS, when we started 40 years ago, really was
about solving problems incommercial.
And as we've developed and grownand really built our technology
expertise, it's like we'rereally sitting at the
intersection of commercial andtechnology, and how do we really
help our clients grow?

SPEAKER_10 (04:59:02):
And tell us who would be an example of a client
that you work with.
Obviously, we're gonna get intoAWS and bring Judy in this in a
moment, but when I look around,there's a lot of airlines here,
airports.
Tell us a little bit about whoyou guys work with in
particular.

SPEAKER_12 (04:59:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So yesterday we had a greatconversation on the keynote
stage with uh Glenn Hollister,VP at United Airlines.

SPEAKER_10 (04:59:21):
Oh, I heard great things about that session.

SPEAKER_12 (04:59:23):
Yeah, yeah, and that was all about AI and retailing.
Um so really, you know, thefuture of one of the hardest
problems to solve is how do youshow up in those LLMs?
Um, how do you make sure that aReddit post from two years ago
isn't what's brought to the top,that you know it's probably no
longer relevant with how fastthings change.
So um, yeah, we do a lot withUnited.
They're a great client.

(04:59:44):
Um, love working with them andhappy that they're able to
support um you know conferenceslike this.

SPEAKER_10 (04:59:48):
Fantastic.
Well, on that note, let's bringin Judy Pitchford, who works
with Amazon Web Services.
Tell everyone, Judy, about yourrole at AWS, and then we'll get
into how you work with ZS.
But first, let's talk about youand your role at AWS.

SPEAKER_20 (05:00:01):
Thanks, thanks, Dan.
Uh yeah, Judy Pitchford, I'm apartner development specialist.
Um my role is to work withpartners like ZS Associates, but
to help our sellers get outsideof IT into the lines of
business.
I came from the industry, so Itry to help bring you know that
perspective and help our sellerssell through partners, you know,

(05:00:25):
amazing partners like ZS.

SPEAKER_10 (05:00:27):
That's great.
And we just had your colleague,Ted Evers, on the podcast, or
listeners have what we heardfrom Ted, and the reason I
mentioned that is because wetalked a little bit about Amazon
Web Services, what you guys do,and why you specifically focus
on travel and hospitality.
And given that you are not onlythe biggest player in the cloud
space, you've made a real effortto focus on travel.
So it's great to see that AWS ishere and not just Ted, but

(05:00:49):
yourself as well, Judy.
Um tell us a little bit moreabout how you work with a
company like ZS.

SPEAKER_20 (05:00:54):
Well, as David mentioned, you know, they're a
full service company, but forfor us, we specifically focus
on, I would say, uh agencopportunities.
Um I'm I'm really focusing thisyear on the customer experience
side of the business.
So uh agentic commerce, as Davidjust mentioned, but um also

(05:01:14):
agentic marketing, agentic anyanything having to do with the
customer experience and how wecan help our customers um be
more efficient in terms of umyou know cost efficiency, but
also in terms of the customerexperience, having it be the the
same, you know, consistency.

SPEAKER_10 (05:01:31):
I do have a question on agentic AI in particular, but
before we get into that, I wouldlove just to know what brings
you to AFA this year.
Have you been to AFA conferencesbefore and uh and uh what what's
what specifically brought youthis year?

SPEAKER_20 (05:01:43):
Yeah, it's a really good question because it's been
a while for me.
I was just saying that I'm I'mhappy to be amongst uh travel
people so so often in my myregular job, I'm amongst tech
people, which is fantastic.
But you know, I'm a um I'm anaviation person from way way
back, so it's nice to be amongstmy people.
Um I've been at this festival orthis event in the past, but it's

(05:02:04):
been some years.
I think it was pre-COVIDactually.
So yeah, it's great to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (05:02:09):
Yeah, and uh I'm gonna bring David back in on
that topic as well, because forme, as our listeners know, this
is my second year being at theconference.
And the this year, I mean lastyear was great, this year was uh
that much better, I think, justin terms of the the layout, the
speakers, the sessions, and umeven the conversations we've
been having with this eventSpotlight.
And so, David, tell us a littlebit about what brings you guys

(05:02:30):
to AFA and ZS, obviously you cyou clearly work with a lot of
companies that are here at thisconference.

SPEAKER_12 (05:02:36):
Yeah, absolutely.
Um so actually gone to the WorldAviation Festival the past few
years, um, which it's beenabsolutely amazing.
Um, and this is our first yearat the Americas Aviation
Festival.
Um really wanted to come herebecause, for one, it's where our
clients are, we want to supportthem, but it's also um a great
opportunity to learn.
Like, what are all the differentleaders in the industry thinking

(05:02:59):
about?
What are the problems thatthey're trying to solve, need
help trying to solve?
Um, so obviously everybody herewants to sell, but you also need
to come here willing to learn.
And I think that's the biggestthing is those new learning
opportunities of really what ishappening in the industry.

SPEAKER_10 (05:03:14):
Yeah, that's great.
And then in terms of an exampleof a client, obviously you guys
work together, but AWS powers alot of this uh the
infrastructure and is then theplatform, yeah, and then you're
developing applications fordifferent clients.
What would be a sort of a goodexample uh based on what you can
share about companies you workwith and how you guys partner
with AWS to deliver for yourclients?

SPEAKER_12 (05:03:36):
Absolutely.
Um, you know, Judy mentionedCOVID earlier, uh, so we'll
we'll bring that back.
I'm not gonna mention theairline, but if you remember
traveling during COVID times,you needed to have your
vaccination card like everywhereyou went.
So when you look at uh flyingand wanting to speed up that
process, they developed theapplication like integrated into

(05:03:57):
their app where you uploadedyour vaccination card so that
way it you don't have to slowthings down during the check-in
process and all that stuff.
That was something that weactually developed for the
airlines.
Uh so happy to say that you knowZS really contributed to the
user experience, but we can'tbuild it by ourselves.
We need AWS technology to powerthat, and that's where we can
really partner together.

SPEAKER_20 (05:04:15):
Yeah, I was gonna say that um that yes, AWS is the
uh the infrastructure, right?
That's uh certainly how westarted as a company, but really
we're we're creating businessoutcomes, and that's kind of why
um I was speaking about theagentic use cases that David and
I are focusing on, but um yeah,the it' for we've evolved into

(05:04:38):
um again a businessoutcome-driven organization, and
it's thanks to working withpartners uh like ZS associates
that actually do theimplementation.
Right.
And some and often the design aswell.

SPEAKER_12 (05:04:51):
So yeah, I think really when we think about
working together and why we worktogether so well is I mean,
because one is the you know ZSwith the big business expertise,
the domain expertise, theindustry expertise, and AWS with
that technology expertise, beingable to bring those
opportunities to life, but alsobecause we both share the common

(05:05:11):
value of customer obsession.
It's like what is the best thingfor the customer.
We always think customer first.
We're not gonna try to just youknow sell you to sell you.
It's what is your biggestproblem that you need solved and
how can we solve it in the bestway possible.
And we both think the same wayabout those kind of things.

SPEAKER_10 (05:05:26):
Well, let's talk about agentic AI and
specifically how both clients ofyours and how the industry is
changing.
We have just done a three-partseries on agentic AI on our
podcast.
We've had our, as our listenersknow too, uh, we've done our two
conferences in 24 and 25 on howAI is impacting travel.
We have our next one coming upin October.
This is, you know, we've gonefrom how it's going to be

(05:05:47):
impacting to actually how it'stransforming our industry.
And I'd love to hear, Judy, fromyour vantage point, how you're
seeing travel companiesembracing agentic AI and
utilizing the AWS platform to doso.

SPEAKER_20 (05:05:57):
Yeah, I think so you said it right.
I mean, even six months ago, weweren't speaking as much about
agentic uh opportunities oragentic AI as we do now.
Now it's it's part of everyconversation, and I think, as
you said rightly, it's gonnachange everything that we do.
Um the I think the mostinteresting thing for me is the
way it, you know, of course,Agent Core for AWS is is is the

(05:06:22):
platform that is um gonna beable to orchestrate every um
aspect of the AI, I guess,journey, if you will, for a
customer.
Um I think it's it's enablingcustomers to do to think out of
the box and to think, you know,in terms of the art of the
possible.
Um but yeah, it's uh I thinkit's in a really exciting time
in our industry, and and um Ican't think of a time that you

(05:06:44):
know we've seen uh uh as much ofa shift.
You know, I think in in sixmonths' time we won't even
recognize, we you know, we'll bethinking back, like remember
when we used to have to do that,you know?
So um yeah, it's it's uh I thinkvery exciting.

SPEAKER_10 (05:06:58):
Yeah, so David, you tell us what you're seeing about
on uh clients, how they'reembracing agentic AI and where
it's having the biggest impacttoday in the travel space.

SPEAKER_12 (05:07:06):
Yeah, absolutely.
It's uh it's really it's allabout how can we be more
efficient.
You know, you there's so manypeople who have that fear of AI,
it's gonna take our jobs and allthat stuff, but it it's like
that's not the point of it.
How can we make our liveseasier?
Whether you're, you know, ZSdoes a lot in revenue
management.
How can we make the life of arevenue manager a whole lot
easier by taking some of thosetedious tasks away and uh

(05:07:29):
deploying agents to help them bemore efficient, to make their
lives easier, and to bring valueto you know their life and to
the client's overall bottomline.

SPEAKER_20 (05:07:38):
And to free up time, really, you know, to to take
away those m not mundane, butyou know, sort of routine tasks
to then shift your time to dosomething that's much more um
value adding.

SPEAKER_10 (05:07:49):
And based on what you're seeing here, Judy, at the
AFA conference and obviouslyknowing clients as well as you
do, where do you think over thecourse of the next six months?
I don't want to think too farout because obviously it's
evolving.
So quickly, but if we project alittle bit further forward,
where do you think we're gonnasee agentic AI really start to
get more traction within thetraveler journey?

(05:08:10):
I know obviously people areusing much more uh generative AI
tools for planning purposes.
Agentic, obviously, thedifference between uh generative
AI and agentic AI is thedifference between content
generation and actuallysomething making a decision on
your behalf or acting on yourbehalf.
And it's an exciting next waveof activity, but it's it's it's
still very much in uh uh itsearly stages.

(05:08:32):
So I'd love to hear what yourtake is on where you think we're
headed.

SPEAKER_20 (05:08:35):
I'm we're seeing mu many more customers adopt AI for
their for their engineeringstaff, really, to be for them to
be much more efficient, to beable to, let's say, if um a CMO
wants to make a change, let'ssay, I don't know, in their
loyalty platform or somethinglike that, their their coders
can can develop a ch a changeand have it be live within you

(05:09:00):
know hours versus you knowmaking changes or taking days or
or weeks or months to makechanges.
So I think those are the thingsthat we're start to we're
starting to see, and we'll seethat speed up even more so in
the next few months.
And David, yeah, what's yourtake on this?

SPEAKER_12 (05:09:16):
Yeah, on um kind of on the other side of things,
really thinking about thecustomer experience.
You know, we're all here becauseof our customers.
Yeah.
Um airlines exist because oftheir customers.
So how can we make theirexperience booking their flights
or you know, whatever they'retrying to do with their travel
plans a whole lot easier?
And going back to the earlierpoint about making sure that you

(05:09:39):
know when they're using thedifferent LLMs and um that a
Reddit post from two years agoisn't the top thing, like the
future's probably gonna beagentic booking.
Um it's somewhat there, maybenot as uh you know in the
perfect sense, but it is gonnago that way.
Like people are searching theirentire travel plans in some, you
know, one of the differentprograms, and it would be so

(05:10:00):
great if you can just like,okay, like yep, negotiate
everything for me, book it rightthere without having to jump to
different apps or to differentwebsites, things like that.
So I think that's potentiallywhere the future is going.
It would make everybody's livesa whole lot easier, but the
trust factor is what needs to bethere.

SPEAKER_10 (05:10:15):
For sure.
I she's one of the things I didspeak about this on stage
yesterday.
There's been so many uhfascinating sessions that I've
listened to and been a part of.
I had the privilege to moderatea panel.
We had American Airlines and OneWorld and a company called
Sierra AI that joined thediscussion as well.
And we were starting to talkabout this trust factor as it
relates to AI and when peopleare going to actually trust it
for your booking.

(05:10:36):
And I do believe that the damwill break in the next six to
twelve months and that peoplewill start trusting agentic AI
with their bookings, and thenwe'll start to see some pretty
significant shifts in consumerbehavior.
Um, I'd love for each of you toleave our listeners with one of
those kind of predictions, ifyou wouldn't mind, like as far
as words of wisdom.
Um, and then also I want to makesure that people can connect and
follow up with each of you.

(05:10:56):
So, David, why don't we startwith you first?
Leave us with one thing that youthink everyone listening to this
should be paying attention to asit relates to technology, AI, or
what's happening in the aviationspace, and then let everyone
know how best to connect withyou and the team over at ZS
Associates.

SPEAKER_12 (05:11:12):
Yeah.
Um I think the big maybe wordsof wisdom are stay curious, keep
learning.
Things change so fast, sorapidly, like you really need to
stay up to date.
And like when we talk about thattrust factor, you can only get
that trust from learning aboutit.
So like keep learning.
That's why we're here is tolearn about what everybody's
doing.
Um yeah, stay curious.

SPEAKER_10 (05:11:32):
And then obviously we mentioned the website,
zs.com.
But what would be the best wayif people want to connect to
you?
LinkedIn, email, or reach out tothe team.

SPEAKER_12 (05:11:40):
Yeah, reach out to the team, connect with me on
LinkedIn, uh David Fister, sendme an email, david.fister at
zs.com.

SPEAKER_10 (05:11:46):
Awesome.
Thank you, David.
Great to have you join us.

SPEAKER_12 (05:11:48):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_10 (05:11:49):
And Judy, yes, please tell us you give us a
final word and insight and letpeople know how they can connect
with you at AWS.

SPEAKER_20 (05:11:56):
Yeah, I think the the final insights are to not be
afraid of the technology, right?
Obviously, we're starting to useit as consumers, but even as as
customers, you know, asairlines, as hotels, whatever,
embrace the technology.
The efficiencies are there, orthere, it's only going to get
better, you know, from the theuser perspective and from the
from the perspective of theengineers that are in the

(05:12:18):
background, you know, doing thedoing the hard work.
Um and the question, the end thequestion was about how to get in
touch with me.
Exactly, yeah.
Um yeah, you can cut get intouch with me on LinkedIn, Judy
Pitchford, I don't remember,slash LinkedIn, I have no idea,
but I'm uh Judy Pitchford andthen at AWS, I'm JPitch at
Amazon.com.

SPEAKER_10 (05:12:36):
Fantastic.
Terrific to meet you as well.
Judy, good luck with the rest ofthe conference.
I look forward to keeping intouch.
All right, thanks so much.
Really appreciate it.
And that's a wrap for our AFAevent spotlight here in
beautiful Miami.
Thanks again to everyone thatmade the time to join us for
these interviews over the lastcouple of days, and thanks as
well to my son Oliver forjoining us.

(05:12:56):
It was great to have him here inMiami with me since I spoke
about him quite a bit on lastseason's episode, given he is
studying to become a pilot.
So it was really cool to see himinteracting and engaging at such
an extraordinary aviationconference.
I was absolutely thrilled to beinvited back this year and also

(05:13:17):
to see just how much thisconference has evolved in the
past year.
I loved the new format where thespeakers were engaging directly
on the same exhibitor floor,which created a much more
interactive dynamic.
It was terrific to be asked todo a session on stage again.
So thanks to all my fellowpanelists and some of them who

(05:13:37):
you heard from here in thepodcast.
I really hope you enjoyed all ofthe highlights from Aviation
Festival in Miami 2026.
We do post clips and highlightson our social channels, so you
can check those out onInstagram, LinkedIn, and YouTube
at Travel Trends Podcast.
And don't forget to check outmore details about Aviation
Festival and World Aviation Festthat happens in Lisbon in

(05:14:00):
October and their AsiaConference as well.
We certainly look forward tofuture collaborations.
So thanks again to the AFA team,Terrapin, for organizing such a
fantastic event and making usyour official podcast partner
and giving us this amazing boothsetup that many of our listeners
would have seen on our socialchannel.
So thanks again for thispartnership and collaboration,

(05:14:21):
and thanks to all of ourlisteners for joining us for
this special event spotlight.
Hope you enjoyed all theconversations.
Got lots of value, veryinteresting insights and
perspectives.
And we look forward to bringingyou the conference next year
from Miami 2027.
Thanks again for joining us, anduntil the next episode, Safe
Travels.

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Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2026 - Live from Miami

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Event Spotlight: Aviation Festival Americas 2026 - Live from Miami