Event Spotlight: Phocuswright Europe 2026

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_10 (00:05):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to a live recording of
the Travel Trends Podcast herein beautiful Barcelona at the
Focus Right Europe Conference.
I'm thrilled to be back for oursecond year.
And the conference is actuallygoing to be moving next year, so
we've got to make the most ofour time here in Barcelona.
And the best way to do that isto interview the most
extraordinary guests that cometogether for this amazing event.

(00:26):
And I have the real privilegeand honor to introduce our very
first guest for this series.
She's never been on the TravelTrends podcast before.
She kindly agreed to join us forthis conversation, but she is a
legend in the industry.
She founded Web and Travel,which is an extraordinary
conference that was acquired byNorth Star.

(00:48):
So she's part of the Focus Rightfamily.
She's based in Singapore, andshe's a remarkable speaker and
entrepreneur and someone that Igreatly uh respect and admire.
And I'm thrilled that we havethe chance to sit down and have
this conversation together.
Ladies and gentlemen, let meintroduce you to now the
founder, Yo Su Hun.

(01:08):
Thank you so much for joining usfor the Travel Trends Podcast.

SPEAKER_12 (01:11):
Great to have you with us.
Dan, well said on the name.
What a kind introduction.
What an amazing introduction.
I'm not sure how I feel aboutbeing referred to as a legend.

SPEAKER_10 (01:22):
Well, you definitely are.
There's no question about that.
But yes.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_12 (01:26):
Thank you so much.
But it's great to be here.
As you say, it may be the last,well, it is going to be the last
focus, right, in this amazingcity of Barcelona.
So looking forward to theconversation then.

SPEAKER_10 (01:37):
Yes, likewise.
And we're having this now on thefirst day, so it's perfect
timing for us to have ourinterview and also discuss what
brings you here this year.
But before we do, tell everyoneabout web and travel and the
business that you've built.
Because when I say you're alegend in the industry, I think
most people listening to thiswill be delighted to know that
you're on the podcast listening.
Here's the opening interview.

(01:57):
So many people know who you are,they've seen you on LinkedIn.
But tell everyone thebackground.
How did you start this business?
What's your background?

SPEAKER_12 (02:04):
Well, I come from a little island of Penang,
Malaysia.
And I have my grounding intravel journalism.
So very close to my heart, youknow, journalist, getting
content, you know, askingquestions, getting so I'm not
used to being interviewed.
All right, Dan.
So let's put it out there thatthis is definitely a flip of the

(02:24):
card for me.
But yeah, so I started uh weband travel in 2005.
So that's why last year atWITSingapore, last October, we
celebrated our 20th anniversary.
So imagine, I've been around solong, you know.
So I've seen definitely theevolution of digital travel.
But I basically started withbecause I really wanted to

(02:47):
understand how the internet wasgoing to change travel, right?
And therefore how the travelindustry in Asia in particular
was going to have adapt wasgoing to have to adapt.
So we saw the changes uh as itevolved in the US, but I just
felt that Asia would follow itsown path or would blaze its own

(03:08):
trail, right?
And so um I wanted to do thatand make sure that the travel
industry in Asia was on top oftrends, right?
And figure out how the travelerwould change in their behavior,
and therefore how we in travelwould have to adapt to the
traveler.
And that has remained sort ofthe core mission of Wit.

(03:28):
Whatever technology has comealong, whether it's internet,
whether it's mobile, social, andnow that word that maybe we will
not say then, you know, but it'salways following traveler
behavior, and I sort of keptthat as my North Star.

SPEAKER_10 (03:45):
Ah, I love it.
Well, and interesting theconnection between North Star
and obviously uh focus right,Philip Wolf, who obviously you
knew for many years as well.

SPEAKER_12 (03:53):
Who I'm absolutely grateful to because you know he
basically um introduced me tothis world.
I mean, he came to our one ofour earlier WIT conferences, you
know, and he's always been agreat mentor and coach.
And uh basically he introducedme to Nostar.
So I'm eternally grateful toPhilip.

SPEAKER_10 (04:13):
Yeah, an incredible.
I mean, uh, another industrylegend there, of course, who
sadly passed away a few yearsago.
But for those of you who aren'tfamiliar with Philip and the
story of Focus Right, it's verysimilar to what Sue Hun was just
sharing about web and travel wasthis intersection of the dot-com
era and how technology was goingto impact travel, which is
relevant to the times we livein.
The word that you are obviouslyavoiding, saying that we're

(04:35):
gonna hear a lot of times onthis podcast is AI.
Everyone's talking about AI, andof course we will touch on that,
but I think it's what's reallyinteresting with both Web and
Travel and Focus, right, is thatyour businesses were based on
that last kind of technologicalepoch that happened, and now
we're going through the nextwave.
And it's even more relevant, Iwould say, today for people to
understand what's happening withtechnology and how it's

(04:55):
impacting travel.
But just before we do, I want tomake sure all of our listeners
who are multitasking, so it'swebintravel.com.
If you want to check out the uhplans to be at a future
conference or the amazingcontent that Suhoon and the team
put together, tell us a littlebit about where the business is
today and some of the eventsthat you have on and some of the
initiatives that you do at WebinTravel that are unique from

(05:18):
everything else that's happeningin the group.

SPEAKER_12 (05:20):
Yeah, so with position within the North Star
Travel Group is we get to do thefun things from our outposts in
Singapore.
Um so we we get to cover really,to me, the fun, exciting
emerging markets, right?
So we've taken our brand beyondSingapore.
We started in Singapore, but wereally have taken our brands now

(05:42):
to uh South Korea, to Japan, tothe Middle East, to uh Cape
Town, and this year we arelaunching in Queenstown as well.
So we like to go to places umthat are kind of at the edge and
where we feel that our brand andthe feeling that we bring with

(06:02):
our brand can make an impact inthe travel community.
So we wanna we wanna go toplaces where we are wanted and
then we are in a way needed aswell, and then that we can spark
a difference.

SPEAKER_10 (06:17):
Well, one of the things that's also really
interesting is that as NorthStar was acquired by JTB, and
one of the big shifts that isgoing to happen over the next
few years is a big focus on theAsia market and obviously Japan.
And and I love traveling throughAsia.
Singapore is one of my favoritedestinations.
My good friend Robin Yap, who'sbased in Singapore, who really
educated me on not only theSingaporean market, but

(06:38):
Malaysia, and there's a lot ofmisunderstanding, especially in
uh Western marketing, about howto market towards Asian
customers.
And so this is where there's somany ways we can take this
conversation.
But one of the things I wouldlove to uh to understand better
from your vantage point is whatis happening in the Asian travel
market at the moment and some ofthe trends you're seeing, since

(06:59):
obviously you've got a goodunderstanding of uh uh not only
that, but obviously where theindustry is headed.
So let's maybe talk a little bitabout the Asian market, if you
wouldn't mind.
And given you're here inBarcelona for the European
conference, what are some of thethings that you're aware of are
happening in the Asian travelmarket that should be
interesting to our listeners andto the audience here at uh Focus
Right Europe?

SPEAKER_12 (07:20):
Yeah, I I guess the first one is that that cliche, I
mean it's not a cliche, but it'sa true one that there is no one
Asia market, right?
Which is why we have wits indifferent markets, if Malaysia,
Tokyo, Japan.
So every everyone is different,but I guess there are always
lessons to be learned from Asia,right?

(07:41):
So when when the mobile wavecame in, uh that's when Asia,
even Africa, you know, MiddleEast leapfrogged.

SPEAKER_11 (07:48):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 (07:49):
And then that was when we saw kind of Asia blaze
the trail in product innovation,customer interfaces, the way we
reach customers and all that.
And I feel that the same thingwill happen with AI, right?
You know, in terms of how it'schanging the front door of
travel.

SPEAKER_11 (08:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 (08:06):
I think it will change the front door of travel
in a way differently in Asia.
And I think the West would bewise to look to Asia for some
sort of uh trailblazing models,yes, you know, and it could show
the way to the future.
Yeah, so that's one of thethings that, for example, at our
conference in Japan, uh, whichwe just finished, we the the

(08:28):
word AI actually means uh I,which actually means love.
Right?
I need means I love you.
You know, not that I love you,but you know, but AI means love,
right?
And so the Japanese have takenthis concept of basically
saying, okay, you know, we canuse AI to help us dial up the

(08:50):
spirit of hospitality in Japaneven better, right?
So the Japanese spirit ofhospitality is omotanashi, which
is a kind of uh it's verydifficult to define, but it is
sort of the ability toanticipate what a customer needs
to read a room.
And so um they they are tryingto figure out how AI can amplify

(09:12):
that rather than reduce that.

SPEAKER_11 (09:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 (09:15):
You know, so so I think in in the Asian way of
developing, I think you can pickout some signals for the future.
For sure.
I believe that, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (09:24):
So one thing I just wanted to underscore from what
you just shared that I think ourlisteners should be paying
attention to.
Right now, all the focus is onanthropic and open AI and these
IPOs, and obviously what we justsaw happen with SpaceX, which is
definitely connected to AI andsatellites and being able to
build data centers in space, andyou know, the but I there's been
such a focus on the valley.
But I think we had that momentabout a year ago when Deep Seat

(09:47):
kind of all of a sudden outpacedsome of the other AI companies.
And the reality is this is thisis a multi-horse race, and China
is very active.
And there's and and Chinaobviously is one market within
Asia, and I appreciate yourclarification on that.
That's because that's one of thethings that Robin had explained
to me is you have to be thinkingabout these as all individual
markets put together, it's amassive market.

(10:09):
And so I guess two-thirds of theworld's population.
There you go, exactly.
So I think there's more in 2027that we'll see and learn from
what's happening in China andthroughout Asia with AI.
So I do think that thatcompetitive battleground will
continue to uh be shaped, and Ithink we'll the lessons will be
learned for sure.
Um, in terms of travel andoutbound travel, I know this has

(10:32):
been a um you know a challengingyear for many companies given
what's happened in the MiddleEast and which uh hopefully is
uh getting resolved now,depending on what people are
listening to this and what statethe world is in.
But you know, we've always gothrough conflicts, Ukraine and
then now Middle East.
A lot of Australians have notbeen traveling, and I know
Australians have obviouslytravel a lot through Asia.

(10:52):
What are some of the some of thetraveler trends that you're
seeing that you're payingattention to in terms of uh who
is traveling right now, who'sholding back this year, you
know, where are theopportunities and where are some
of the weaknesses?

SPEAKER_12 (11:07):
I think we're gonna we we're seeing similar trends
playing out because of the crazydivided world that we live in
and the disruption in aircorridors.
So, I mean, we we heard atyesterday's uh with focus right
Middle East that there wasdefinitely a trend towards
regional regionalization, right?
Whatever region you're in,Europe, uh Middle East, Asia,

(11:29):
we're gonna see moreregionalization of travel.
Yeah.
One trend that was I thought wasinteresting that was said
yesterday was by Muzamilal-Hussein of Al-Mussefa, where
he said that the outbound trendin the Middle East was kind of
shifting westwards versus east,which means actually
opportunities for Europe.
So Saudi uh travelers areactually looking westwards and

(11:51):
looking for not so obviousdestinations.
So you you will find that theyou know the secondary
destinations are not necessarilysecond best anymore.

SPEAKER_11 (12:02):
Right.

SPEAKER_12 (12:02):
Right.
And people are actuallydeliberately seeking out sort of
the second best, secondarydestinations.
We also see that within thewider Asia region, right?
Where um people, youngertravelers or even the older
travelers, because of the socialcontent that's out there and
word of mouth and connectivityof low-cost airlines, that they

(12:24):
are also going offline.
Yeah, right?
Finding remote destinations, youknow, to get away from the main
paths.
So I think travelers naturallywant to disperse.
Uh, and we just have to find away in our industry to help them
disperse as easily as possible.
I think there is an innatedesire by travelers to want to

(12:45):
disperse.

SPEAKER_11 (12:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 (12:46):
So there was a we had an event in Kuala Lumpur
where we call it our Travel TechThursdays, where we have
quarterly events, and we had theCEO of Air Asia Move, um, which
uh Nadia.
And basically Air Asia Move, youknow, they they cater to the
budget travelers in ASEAN, whichis a very big market.
And she was talking that, youknow, we had low-cost airlines

(13:08):
unlock the first wave of travel.
Now we need innovative, creativeproducts to unlock the next wave
of travel, right?
For those travelers thatactually want something
different.
So we get we got to getinnovative, not just with tech,
not just with tech to find atraveler and target them and
sell stuff, but to actuallycreate desire uh and excite them

(13:30):
about travel.

SPEAKER_10 (13:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_12 (13:32):
I think I I think that's the next unlock for me is
like get creative with productsand experiences because we've
all heard it, like people reallywant to travel for experiences.
For sure.
Yeah.
So then the other market that Ithink is worth watching, I mean,
China will always be there, likea big outbound market.
We're seeing definitely a lot ofindividual travelers, you know,

(13:54):
a braver definitely with socialmedia, with their apps and all
that.
They're really fanning out.
Uh, Korea is an interestingmarket.
It is the second largestoutbound market in Asia.
Um, the Koreans are intensetravelers.
Um, you know, I think it's like28 million trips for a very
small population, so highfrequency.

(14:16):
So they are desirous of travel.
And the the other thing is uh inAsia, so I was in Corfu just
last week, and I was taken abackby the seasonality of travel in
Europe, right?
So at Corfu, they they they openthe island for five months and
then the rest of it, they think,well, it's too cold, there's no
sun.
But actually, you might be ableto target Asians to come during

(14:39):
the off-season, right?
Because Asians actually don'twant the sun and we don't want
the beach because we get lots ofthat, right?
So we actually want to go uhsomewhere as cool or cold, you
know.
So I think if we think aboutdeliberate, um intentional
dispersal of travel, we mightactually be able to build sort
of a more equitable,sustainable, you know, tourism

(15:03):
for the world.
For sure.

SPEAKER_10 (15:04):
Yeah, you've hit on a number of really interesting
points there.
And uh obviously the regionaltravel is one that's to me uh
recently having a conversationwith airlines around South
America, and I was asking themabout inbound to South America,
and what they were telling me ishow much regional travel is now
happening in South America, thatyou have Brazilians that are
going to Chile and Argentina,and they're they're doing a lot
more traveling just within thecontinent themselves.

(15:26):
And that's really exciting forcompanies to realize that more
air routes are being opened up,more hotel accommodation, like
that region.
So that that's no one's actuallyshared that on our podcast
before.
You?
So I think that's something Iwanted to underline to our
listeners that that's somethingeveryone needs to be paying
attention to is regional travel.
The people traveling withinNorth America or within Europe.

(15:48):
If they're not going to dolarger international trips,
we're certainly seeing moredomestic travel, but the idea of
just staying within your regionis fascinating.
I've obviously I totally agreewith you about experiences.
The other thing I wanted to askyou is in the age of AI, the
human connection and theimportance of a human.
And I would love to get yourtake on this because in our
summit later this year, we diduh in 2024, we did the first

(16:08):
kind of AI summit, and it waslike how AI was going to impact
travel.
And then last year we did uh oursummit focused on how it is
transforming travel, like withreal use cases.
Now we're also seeing a lot ofpushback uh around AI and a real
focus on where humans are stillrelevant.
And the travel industry, the onething I'm very bullish on about
our industry, obviously we'vegot a lot of things going in our

(16:30):
favor, demographic factors, forexample, the aging baby boomers,
a lot of desire for travel.
I would love to know from yourvantage point where humans are
still relevant, because you havebeen in this industry, you're
this wonderful human that hasthis great uh uh stage presence
and people gravitate to you.
And so there's a there's astrong desire from all of us to

(16:50):
have we all crave humanconnection.
It's why we're here at aconference in the first place.
So I think it's sometimes thething that gets lost when we
talk about AI and technology iswhat role humans will still play
in this and how important humansare in the travel experience.
So I guess and I know you'realso very well read, and you
obviously have um you knowwell-informed opinions.
So I would love to ask you whatyour view is on the role of

(17:12):
humans in the travel industry asall these companies rush to
embrace AI.

SPEAKER_12 (17:17):
I I think humans will become even more important,
actually.
You know, I think that we are ata time where people are actually
questioning questioning humanityitself, right?
And what does it mean to behuman?
Um, you know, and travel, wecan't run away from the fact
that it's essentially a physicalindustry, right?

(17:38):
Like maybe, you know, if in Idon't know, 50 years from now,
we can send our avatars totravel for us, but for now we
have to travel for ourselves,right?
So it's a very physicalindustry.
And I think, you know, one ofthe questions that we're gonna
ask at WITSingapur, um, which iscoming up in October, is
actually will travelers pay apremium for the undigitized,

(18:01):
right?
And I sense that people will.
Like in within Asia, we areseeing a uh growing demand for
analog experiences, right?
They call it analog, but youknow, I mean it's called analog
now, but people want to do likeyou know, uh pottery classes and
and you know, and and makingcandles.

(18:22):
You know, people want to dothose sort of physical things
that are tactile, right?
And in Japan, one of the uh oneof the most uh best-selling
experiences is how to make thekatana sword, which is used by
the samurai.
So I think people are actuallycraving that touch again, that
you know, to be able to makethings by hand, right?

(18:42):
In the bookstore now, you canactually buy an analog pack,
which has a notebook with apencil and you know, stuff that
we threw away, but now it'scoming back.
So I think for every for everyprogression there is a backlash,
right?
In Asia, the backlash is neveras violent as it appears to be
in the US, which is I don'tknow, it's a crazy country, but

(19:08):
but the the back the people aremuch more pragmatic, right?
And they will say, okay, I willI will use AI to do what I can,
but I'm gonna actually amplifythe human experience.
I'm gonna amplify the way I Ioffer my services, you know, and
and be more personal.
So I mean, I look listen, I'm anoptimist, right?

(19:29):
And I believe I believe humanswill become even more important
in travel.
And hopefully we will be freerbecause we can use, you know, AI
to do a lot of the stuff that wedon't want to do.
Um, but it's our choice.
It's our choice to decide whatwe want AI to do for us.
It's not AI's choice, yeah, it'sour choice.

(19:51):
Yeah.
So we should we should beruling, we should be ruling the
world and not letting AI takeover.

SPEAKER_10 (19:57):
Well, there was a great commencement speech that
um a uh comedian in the US andhe uh talked about the the
responsibility of thisgeneration is to destroy AI.
And there is this pushback wherepeople don't trust it, and also
this question, you know, whenyou mentioned about when we have
more time, there is that webecome more efficient, and this
question about universal basicincome when we're gonna have

(20:17):
more time to travel, what doesthat actually look like?
When we finished our IGENTIC uhin-person recording, we had a
number of people comment aboutthe pushback on AI.
And uh, I had made a commentabout this trip idea that I had
to travel like it's 1995.
And so to travel when you stillhave to use phone cards and go
to a phone booth, and you, youknow, your internet was very
limited, but you still have togo those cyber cafes.
So you could be connected, butyou could choose when you were

(20:39):
needed to be connected.
And the rest of the time, youknow, you'd get off at a train
station, or one of our mostmemorable trips.
We did Southeast Asia for threemonths before we moved to
Australia, and we went throughuh Vietnam and Thailand and
Cambodia, and then we uheveryone told us you have to go
to Malaysia.
And we went to Singapore andthen Kuala Lumpur, and then we
spent two weeks in Malaysiaexploring around with no

(21:00):
smartphones and just getting offtrains and meeting people and
finding finding our way around.
And going back more recentlywith our kids, all of a sudden
we were getting in, you know, wewere using Grab, and it was I I
still enjoyed the travel, but itwas it lost the magic for me of
like what was so enjoyable.
Sometimes it was the hardship,but it made it so much more
interesting.
And and so I agree with you.

(21:22):
I do think this analog, I thinkthere is a potential there, a
trend there that companies canfocus on to put the technology
down and really connect withother humans.

SPEAKER_12 (21:31):
Use the technology to do what it does best, right?
And then then we humans shouldthink about what it is we do
better.

SPEAKER_10 (21:38):
Yes.
Well, that's awesome.
Well, tell us a little bit aboutwhat's ahead for you, and both
with obviously the conferencecoming up in October.
Um tell us a little bit ofwhat's in store for webin travel
and wit, because obviously, eventhough it's been acquired by
North Star, you are very muchrunning that business.
It's still very much yourcompany and your business to
run.

SPEAKER_12 (21:56):
And obviously, um No, no, I have to, you know, on
such a Airups, you know, stillnumbers to be met.

SPEAKER_10 (22:04):
But you are, you know, you're the face, you're
the brand, you are, and you youdo such a great job with it.
So like um tell us a little bitwhat your plans are over the
next kind of six months uh andthe year ahead for web and
travel.

SPEAKER_12 (22:18):
I think I'm I'm just like a typical entrepreneur
where um I don't have much of aplan then.
But I am very open, uh I am veryopen.
I'm very open.
So, you know, last December Idid not think that I would be
launching an event in Queenstownin July.
Right.
I did not know that, right?

(22:39):
Until I got a phone call fromRoger Sharp of Technology
Queenstown, and he had attendedour event in Japan, and he was
kind of taken up by the impactthat we were making in the local
community, and he basically gaveme a call and said, Would you
want to have an event inQueenstown?
And I said, Why not?

SPEAKER_11 (22:59):
Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_12 (22:59):
Uh because of that Queenstown, I mean, who would
say no to that?
So I think um I I I I'm sureNorth Star would like not want
me to say this, but no, I followmy heart.
I follow my heart.
Um it's where people want us,where they think we can make a
difference.

(23:20):
Um and that's where I want togo.

SPEAKER_10 (23:24):
Yeah, I love that.
And I uh and I'm glad you cansay that.
It's like and and I think that'sfor those people who are just
getting to know you, and um,that's very endearing because it
it's it's very honest, it's verytransparent, and it's very real.
And that's you.
That's your you know, your verypersonal brand.
So I'm so glad that Pete Como,our common friend, uh, when I
spoke to him at dinner lastnight, I mentioned that you were

(23:46):
gonna be interviewing with me.
And he's like, Yes, I Iencouraged her to join you, but
it sounds like yeah, you werevery keen to do it.
I'm like so thrilled that wefind out.

SPEAKER_12 (23:54):
I I don't need encouragement, but it's just
that you know I I am not used tobeing interviewed, so yeah.
But you're a very kindinterviewer.

SPEAKER_10 (24:02):
Well, and uh for me, obviously, as it's just like the
greatest respect and aberrationbecause you do this, you know,
so well.
And so um I wanted to beprepared.
But just to just to finish up,one more thing I wanted to ask
you too, is with us here inBarcelona, what brought you to
Focus Right Europe this year?
What are some of the sessionsyou're gonna be involved in?
What are some of the things thatwould be interesting for our

(24:23):
global listeners to know aboutwhat's happening here at Focus
Right Europe?

SPEAKER_12 (24:27):
Yeah, I I have been part of Focus Right Europe since
Dublin, actually, when they werein Dublin, then we went to
Amsterdam and here.
But this year, specifically, Icame here to run the WIT Focus
Right Middle East, uh, which wasactually originally scheduled to
be held in Dubai in May, butclearly we couldn't.
And so I called Pete to say,hey, you know, what if we

(24:47):
integrated the two events,right?
And and have uh Middle East theday before.
And it was pretty hard puttingeverything together, but we did
it, you know.
And last yesterday I felt I feltthat it was really important for
us to have a conversation aboutthe most important region uh
despite whatever is going on.

(25:08):
That we still we still needed tokeep that conversation going
about the Middle East becauseit's not going away.
Right?
And from the conversations thatwe had, it's definitely uh it's
gonna still be a growth driver.
We just need to sort out allthat political mess, which you
know who started.
Uh so but it it was great to I II find that physical events are

(25:32):
actually very good healingplaces and also very good um
opportunities for people tobuild new relationships, right?
So I yeah, so it was importantthat we do the Middle East event
here, which I'm glad we did, buthopefully next year we get to do
it in Dubai, you know.
And then here I always run anevent uh I always run a session
called Wit Europe, uh, whichFocus Right kindly gives me some

(25:55):
time.
And I curate sessions that focuson emerging markets.
Yeah, that's that's uh that'swhat I bring to the Focus Right
conference.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (26:05):
Well I heard so many positive feedback from guests
that were I had I heard so muchpositive feedback from attendees
of the Middle East sessionsyesterday, including uh Stuart
Grife, who runs uh Forbes TravelGuide, he'll be part of this
episode as well.
He was taking pictures, sharingsome of the stats, and posting
them on LinkedIn.
And so this is where there's somuch that you offer to the

(26:26):
industry with the work thatyou're doing, and not only in
Asia, but the conferences you'reattending.
I want to make sure that all ofour listeners know where they
can follow up or connect withyou.
What would be the best I'vementioned the website, I know
you're active on LinkedIn aswell, but what would be the
social channels if people wantto follow your work and uh and
stay up to speed with some ofthe reports that you're working

(26:46):
on or you know the conferencesyou're attending and what you're
sharing?

SPEAKER_12 (26:49):
Well, I think the website would be the best one,
and uh we we have a weeklynewsletter, so they can
subscribe to that and uh and Ihave LinkedIn.
Perfect.

SPEAKER_10 (26:59):
Well, I get that newsletter, it's excellent as
well, so I definitely encouragepeople to sign up for that.
And uh that's one of thebeautiful things about Focus
Right is all the research andthe reporting to be able to come
to an event like this.
And you you're right, being atan event like this, there's a
certain element of healingbecause the number of people
that come to uh and are at thedinner functions and they're all
trying to trade stories.
What are you seeing?
You know, what like everyonewants to have a direct

(27:21):
conversation with each otherabout their booking activity and
to have honest, uh openconversations, which is what
happens here.
It's very refreshing.
When you have senior executivesthat are able to actually kind
of open up and say, this is whatwe're seeing, we're struggling
in this market, what are youseeing?
And it's really helpful for eachother.

SPEAKER_12 (27:36):
So Dan, may I ask you something?
Uh what's your background?
Are you a journalist?
So you you came in fromjournalism?

SPEAKER_10 (27:42):
No, I I think I that's a very kind compliment.
But no, I was a travel industryexecutive for about 20 years.
So my focus for this wasactually kind of executive to
executive conversation aboutbusiness strategy.
Um, but I try and always do myhomework before meeting anyone,
so then that's where thejournal, and I always try to
figure out what's the throughline that'll be interesting to
our audience.
And ultimately, what I'm tryingto do is share insights that

(28:02):
will be valuable to people togrow their careers or build
their business in the travelindustry.
That's that's ultimately myobjective with these
conversations, is what would webe able to talk about?
Because I have the privilege tospeak to you.
What are some of the questions Ican ask you that would be really
valuable for those people thatwould love to have this
opportunity?

SPEAKER_12 (28:18):
Well, firstly, congratulations on having built
this up, you know, um at a verycrucial time.
So, what I think uh for me, uhsomebody was asking me, like,
what does it feel to be ajournalist at this time, right?
Yeah, and I feel that any momentof disruption is a great time to
be a journalist.
A great time to be a journalistis when people are actually
asking more questions than theyhave answers to, right?

(28:42):
And it's in the questions thatyou find the answers.
And as a journalist, um what Ifind fascinating is therefore
having people ask a lot ofquestions now, because in the
past they would just throwanswers at you.
That's not so interesting,right?
Yeah, asking questions is theessence of life, and one skill

(29:03):
that we need in AI is to be ableto ask AI the right questions.
Very true.
So maybe this swing will promptpeople to ask the right
questions.
Because I hear so many questionsbeing asked, and nobody has the
answers.
I think it's a great time to bein content.
So I think you picked a theright time to launch this
podcast.

SPEAKER_10 (29:23):
Uh thank you very much, Suhuna.
It's obviously uh my heart'sgrown two sizes over the course
of the last three years byvirtue of you know really loving
doing this podcast, having theprivilege to be in an event like
this and be able to sit downwith you.
So thank you for that kindcompliment.
But ultimately, thank you formaking the time for this.
Thanks for everything you do forour industry.
I will continue to follow yourjourney and look forward to
having you back on the podcastin the hopefully near future.

(29:46):
Um, but good luck with the restof the conference and I look
forward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_12 (29:49):
Thank you, Dan.
It's a pleasure, and I'll seeyou in Singapore.

SPEAKER_10 (29:54):
Our next guest here at Focus Right Barcelona is a uh
a very good friend of mine andsomeone that's been a big part
of travel trends over the years.
He is the uh CEO and co-founderof Travel AI, John Liotier, and
he is here with me at theconference, and I'm thrilled to
get the time together in personbecause not only will uh travel

(30:16):
AI be a part of our summit laterthis year, as they have the last
couple of years, but he'ssomeone I always point out in
the industry as I was doing adinner last night that really
knows where this industry isheaded, really obviously grasp
AI.
So travelai.com is the websitethat you can check out.
And he's also got this hugelaunch here that I'm gonna get
him to tell you all about.

(30:36):
But John, welcome back to TravelTrends.
Great to have you with us again.
My pleasure, glad to be here.
And so you have a very specificpurpose of being here for this
event.
But before we get into that, forthose listeners who are not
familiar with this amazingcompany that you've built, give
everyone a little overview ofTravel AI.

SPEAKER_14 (30:53):
Sure, I'll sort of take you on a bit of a journey.
We had a successful companybefore the pandemic uh that did
not survive the pandemic, anduh, but really we had a company
that was operating a series ofmicro metas.
Uh so if you think yourskyscanners, your chivagos, we
basically were doing that uhacross a whole bunch of niche
brands.
And uh when the pandemichappened, the company got wiped

(31:15):
out.
We started all over again insort of spring of 21.
Uh but we realized that what wewere doing before was right, but
we had a chance to basicallysuperpower with this new thing
that everybody was talkingabout, or about to start talking
about.
This is sort of even the earlydays that um we knew AI was
gonna be absolutelytransformative for the entire
industry.
We um acquired the assets of thepredecessor company because

(31:36):
basically they wanted the serverto build all the data.
But um as a as a company, we cansort of continue on that brand
to build up our our series of umhyper-personalized niche brands,
but really all thosehyper-personalized niche brands
give us a playground toexperiment and apply AI in new
and innovative ways.
And that's really what we'vebeen doing over the years.

SPEAKER_10 (31:55):
Fantastic.
And I just want to call out toour listeners as well.
If you actually uh look back atsome of our episodes, we did a
um John has been on our podcasta few times.
We did a uh event spotlight.
Uh he's joined us at Focus Rightconference before, but we
actually did a specific deepdive into his business and his
company with his co-founder aswell, who's now retired.

(32:16):
Now retired.
Yeah, which is amazing.
Uh very happy for him.
But the um I want all of ourlisteners to actually go and
check out that uh Chris Jensenum is the co-founder.
So go and check out that episodeif you want to learn more about
the amazing backstory becauseit's really worth taking the
time to understand theirbusiness pre-pandemic.
And it's a perfect example of acompany that embraced AI early

(32:39):
with a team that's savvy.
Obviously, John's background ismarketing and branding, and um
he has a great grasp oftechnology, but it's one of the
things you'll first point out isthat like your your background
is not technology.
Um, and I actually think that'sa compliment in the way that
you've approached the productsand the services you've
introduced.
But it's an amazing story of thenumber of websites that you're
going from 800 to 8,000 using AIto spin up these sites.

(33:02):
And so for a while, you guyswere sort of hiding in the
shadows a little bit.
Um you kind of step back becauseyou have got such a successful
business that why do you need tootherwise go out and uh uh and
shout about it?
Um but you doubt you nowactually have something you're
very keen to shout about.

SPEAKER_14 (33:18):
We we do.
It's um we like being quiet.
Uh it it's we um we're basicallya whole team of introverts and
and we're not ones like to shoutfrom the rooftops too often.
Um but we uh launched that onMonday, so two days ago, uh or
yesterday, I don't even knowsure what day it is now, it all
kind of blends together.
Um, a new product calledTravelerMD.

(33:39):
And Traveler MD really is amarkdown file for those familiar
with markdown files and use ofClaude or OpenAI and some of the
other models.
A markdown file is a series ofinformation or instructions that
you can give to a model to um tounderstand.
In our instance, we've createdTravelerMD and TripMD, or a

(34:00):
series of TripMD files that sitwithin a TravelerMD.
And that is kind of why we'rehere at the show.
We have a chance to sort of umtell the world, hey, we've been
working on something kind ofcool underneath the um
underneath the surface there fora while, but now we get to tell
the world about it.

SPEAKER_10 (34:16):
Yeah, it's fantastic.
Obviously, uh Brianna is herewith you as well.
Brianna was actually on ouragentic AI series, and it was
one of our most popular episodesin that three-part series.
And Brianna is an amazingspeaker, she'll be at our our
summit later this year as well.
Uh Traveler.md, just for all ofour listeners, it's Traveler
with one L.
Um, so the American spelling,even though he's Canadian like

(34:38):
me and obviously Australian, soI just want to make sure
everyone finds the uh thewebsite.
I was reading through the pressrelease yesterday with great
interest and talking about thenumber of colleagues because I
think this is a massiveopportunity and like a perfect
time for you to come out withthis technology, which I know is
still in beta.
But tell everyone this conceptof turning any LLM or agent into
your personal travel assistant.

(35:00):
Tell everyone a bit about thebackground on this and even the
domain as well, because I thinkthere's an interesting story of
how that collects.

SPEAKER_14 (35:06):
Lots of different stories there, but uh you and I
have talked before about ourvision of the the agentic
network.
And we've gone from theInformation Superhighway from 95
to 2010 uh with basic internetsites, and people took the
information and put it into umput their brochure online, if
you will.
And that ushered in the wholeage of the of the booking.coms

(35:27):
and the expedias and the tripadvisors and those large first
generation of the digital travelcompanies.
Um of course they built on thebacks of the giants of the all
the existing travel companiesthat were there before.
Um fast forward then frombasically the age of 2010
through 2025, which was the ummobile social phase of travel,

(35:48):
where you had Airbnb and Uber,um Instagram, TikTok, all those
companies launched within veryshort order of each other.
But we're about to go into theage of the agenc network.
And an agentic network is one inwhich you have the supply and
demand or the traveler and thetravel supplier being augmented
with an AI agent who's capableof giving more and more

(36:09):
instructions to that thing.
Uh so we've been trying to buildthat for a while, and we've uh
really all of our sites thatwe've been building are part of
this agentic network, but wequickly realized that in order
to deliver the on-the-promSagentic network, you needed to
have a verticalized memory.
And vertical memory is reallywhat Traveler MD is all about.
If you think about it from thecontext of um OpenAI or Claudia,

(36:31):
whatever your your audience isusing these days, that's very
much a generalized memory.
And generalized memory, um, itdoes know you, and it basically
the more you use it, the more itknows you.
But a vertical memory, it can beaugmented to that generalized
memory and go deep into thattravel sphere.
So from our perspective, we'reable to go out and build it, and
really what we ask uh of theentire industry is that uh

(36:54):
anybody can contribute to atraveler MD file.
We're not the owners ofTravelerMD, it's the traveler
who actually owns that file, andthen bring it with them when
they go to interact with anytravel company, and the more
companies who use it, the morevaluable it becomes.

SPEAKER_10 (37:08):
Yeah, and this is super exciting.
I was just, as our listenersheard uh talking to Suhoon from
Web and Travel, and I was askingher about where do humans where
is the role for humans in theage of AI and travel?
And there and this is a greatfollow-on from that conversation
because when you can use AI toreally enhance the travel
experience, but still have thehuman connection when you're in

(37:30):
destination.
So uh let's break it down from atraveler point of view, and then
I want to break it down from anindustry point of view for most
of our listeners that are gonnawant to figure out how to
partner and connect with you andwhat this means for them.
But let's start on travelersfirst, because you mentioned
Traveler MD and TripMD.
So two files, one memory.
Uh TravelerMD is uh who you are,TripMD, as you were mentioning,
is what you're planning, and thetwo of them uh combined

(37:53):
together.
So, from a consumer point ofview, walk us through the
experience of getting set up andwhat the benefits are for a
consumer, for a traveler usingthis uh tool and platform.

SPEAKER_14 (38:04):
So uh this goes back to being in the beta side.
It's there is some complexity inversion one in some of the
setup.
Um we have uh one can go totravel.md today.
Uh well I'll come back to theone L and two L thing because we
actually do that frominternally, but maybe we'll do
that that offline.
Yeah um but uh somebody could goto travel.md today and uh start

(38:26):
interacting either through chator through voice uh and
basically create a travelprofile.
That travel profile creates amarkdown file that you can then
connect into uh your existingmodels from there.
But uh right now it has a avoice conversation that does
onboard you.
So it's like hey, hey Dan, uh uhsays this either male or female

(38:48):
voice, depending on what youyou've elected to talk with.
Uh tell me more about yourself.
What's your travel profiles?
Do you like the window seat orthe aisle seat?
All those uh base questions thatthat uh model will start
interacting with.
But at the same time you dothat, every time you say I'm
thinking about a trip orplanning a trip, and then that
especially once you've itbecomes super powerful once
you've connected it into yourexisting LLMs.

(39:08):
If you connect it into Claude orconnect it into uh ChatGPT, but
if you connect it into toClaude, you're having a
conversation with Claude aboutI'm thinking about a trip to to
go to Barcelona, um, itbasically gets uh automatically
added into you as a trip MD, asa subset of the traveler MD.
Um all that information isstored in basically in
perpetuity, but it's not storedwith us, it's stored with the

(39:29):
traveler themselves who reallyowns that individual file.

SPEAKER_10 (39:33):
So this is important because it actually just came up
in a round table I was runningabout who owns the arrival
experience, is the expectationis that uh who who owns, and
ultimately the feedback was thetraveler owns that they're there
it's their responsibility.
And this is a very muchimportant question when it comes
to data.
Who owns who owns your data?
The reality is a lot ofcompanies harvest your data, but

(39:53):
the most empowering thing as aconsumer um uh purchasing online
is to own your own profile.
And this is what excites me ofwhat you've built, because one
of the common themes that cameup when I was at the aviation
festival a couple of weeks agodoing an event Spotlight is the
uh conversations all revolvedaround airlines trying to make
sure, from a consumer point ofview, that you remember them.

(40:13):
That their biggest frustrationfor people using their platforms
is remember me.
Remember me across everything.
If I call in, remember me.
No, like it's a becauseunfortunately, all the different
touch points, you're using chat,you're calling the phone, you're
using the website, and there'slimitations to the understanding
of who you are and what you'retrying to achieve.
And I I actually it really stoodout to me as like the and then

(40:35):
when I saw the launch of whatyou've been building, it's like
this is the ultimate tool tolike remember me.
Exactly.
If I've told you, I don't wantto tell every platform multiple
times.

SPEAKER_14 (40:44):
We used to sort of use the analogy of you call into
a local cable company, we'reboth Canadians, so you call into
Rogers or or or or Talus orBell, and it's sure it exists
around the world the exact sameway.
You explain your issues and yousay, oh, you have a small
business account, let metransfer you over and you have
to explain yourself all overagain.
And that's super frustrating,but that's exactly what's
happening in travel.

(41:05):
The uh for for years and severallarge companies have talked
about the idea of this connectedtrip.
And the connected trip is not umuh it shouldn't exist because it
doesn't exist for the travelerin any one particular company.
We bounce from a a planningservice from a tour company to a
flights company to a activitiesto restaurants to everything

(41:27):
basically that makes the fullfull travel experience.
But every time you go to a newcompany, you have to basically
train that company on your dataand who you are.
And that's just wrong.
Um and uh I think for um mosttravelers, they understand that,
that they should be in control,but all of these platforms have
typically been uh keeping thatdata as they're locked in secret

(41:50):
and only force you to use it inthat system.
Um we're trying to sort of breakthat mold a little bit and say
that the the traveler is incontrol of the data, the
traveler owns the data, and thetraveler should be able to take
the data with them wherever theplatform happens to be.

SPEAKER_10 (42:02):
And so let's talk about what then that means for a
travel provider.
And so if you have your travelerMD where you've got all this
information, you can obviouslythen choose who you're gonna
share that with, which is youknow, giving permission access
to this ultimately rich travelercontent is incredibly valuable
for OTAs, hotels, airlines thatthen actually get to instantly

(42:24):
personalize the experience basedon what they now know about the
guests.
So tell us where you are on thatjourney with now working with
partners.
I know you've got a number ofverticals there.
Is there one area that you'refocusing on first?
How how are you looking to rollthis out?

SPEAKER_14 (42:36):
I I think the so let's back up a step.
Um I think when you look at thepersonalization which you just
mentioned, um personalizationreally requires a grounding in a
set series of facts orinformation.
Uh your travel profile consistsof information that is about
you, um, but it's not the it'snot the binary ones and zeros

(42:58):
that most the old old fashionsystems are.
Um because the markdown file isreally in plain text, easy to
understand, it can start tocommunicate nuance in ways that
you couldn't do before.
And that nuance is really wherethe personalization secret
really lies.
So from from our perspective,we're really starting to figure
out um uh our our our firstproof of concept is to deploy

(43:21):
Traveler MD across our ownnetwork of sites.
Uh and we have a few launchesthat are coming up with new
brands that will be be outthere.
I'll maybe mention that to youoffline here in a in a second,
because there will have morenews coming out uh in not too
distant future.
Um but really what uh once wecan sort of prove it on our own
site that we can get a warmstart conversion uplift, which

(43:41):
is really what it's uh it'sabout, um, then we want to make
sure that we can work withothers in the industry to help
them achieve that warm startuplift as well.
Um but because what when you'reusing Traveler MD, it doesn't
mean that you have to get rid ofyour own data.
Uh you still have your own data,you have your own proprietary
data, but now you can alsobenefit from the shared shared
list.
Earnings of that what thetraveler option to share with

(44:02):
you.

SPEAKER_10 (44:03):
Well, the one thing that for those of our listeners
that are just wrapping theirhead around Travel AI and having
a look at travelai.com is thenumber of brands that you have.
I mentioned the 800 to 8,000,but there's more than 500
consumer brands that you haveunder your portfolio.
And the reason I mention thatnow is because you've been able
to test this within your ownplatform and network and now
making it available to otherpartners.

(44:24):
So you know it works.
And then obviously now with withthe launch here at FocusRight
Europe, the key the at an eventlike this, you've got obviously
many of the most uh seniorexecutives throughout the
European market.
Why did you guys choose tolaunch now and in Europe?

SPEAKER_14 (44:41):
Um well I guess it goes back to some other products
we're building as well.
Uh we we know that Warm Startpersonalization is um is what
the travel industry's beenlooking for.
Uh we have another initiativethat we've been working on, uh
not launched yet, but it's allin the area of governed memory.
And governed memory really is umhow to provide a control plane

(45:03):
or audibility traceability forcompanies to show how they've
done AI personalizationproperly.
Um that product basically is thepainkiller while the vitamin is
Traveler MD.
So uh, but those who basicallysuffer from that the most are EU
companies.
Yeah.
So it where you have uh the newEU AI Act, we have different

(45:24):
different GDPR regulations.
Um so in a way we've introducedthis one product first, the
TravelerMD file, which is thismassive vitamin to help you on
the warm stock personalization,but you can't really do that
unless you have the governmentmemory on the other side, which
is really providing that umcontrol plane to make sure that
you can provide the traceabilityand audibility of your AI
actions.
So it kind of has two products,one's launched now, one's be

(45:46):
launching uh probably later thisyear.
Um but it's more the behind thescenes of stuff we're working
on.

SPEAKER_10 (45:52):
Now you're a branding and marketing guy.
Yeah.
Explain for all of our listenersthe.md.
I think that's actually it's ait's a clever uh marketing
angle, but some people might sayMD, WebMD, is this.

SPEAKER_14 (46:04):
Yeah, it's my my wife included.
She was giving me a hard timesaying you guys don't have a
travel b uh medical, althoughmedical tourism is massive.
Um, and we we are having lookingtrying to identify a good
medical tourism brand.
Um so it for those who are onthe bleeding edge of technology,
uh, you really have markdownfiles or.md files, skills.md

(46:25):
within Cloud and otherplatforms.
So basically we've been uhknowing that our first customers
really are those bleeding edgeusers.
We're really trying to speak tothose users first.
I I think in due course,probably many travelers will
never realize that there is oneproduct called TravelerMD.
Uh they'll just be dealing withthe personalization across the
things.
But it's it's a bit of a yeah,it's it's it's a it's it's very

(46:49):
much a technical name as opposedto a um a person like we we we
in some instances we're verygood at branding, very good at
names, and other times we'renot.
We we had this idea of atraveler action model TAM
before.
We had shared vector travelerprotocols.
Uh we had all sorts of differentacronyms for doing different
things.
But uh this is the first timewe've like I am even wearing a

(47:09):
t-shirt today that says travelMD.
So we're going with the brand,but part of that is to uh
communicate.
Uh the.md domain is a Moldovandomain, which has been a
different um thing.
You know me, I love my domainnames, but trying to procure
some Moldovan domains has been abit of a challenge.

SPEAKER_10 (47:25):
Yeah, and I wanted to make sure you highlighted
that because I'm sure peoplewere also that's the trivia
question is what is MD kind oflike uh.tv, which is Tillavu.
And so you have all you knowthat first wave of um top-level
domains and how they got parsedout around the world, and some
countries really benefited fromthat.
And then you and so one of thethings you mentioned there about
the branding, some of thebranding actually just works

(47:46):
really well for developersbecause you speak their
language, and this is a goodexample of that.
And I know you do work withdevelopers.
So given that we've got a lot ofuh listeners globally, that's
you know, we talked about thetraveler experience, we talked
about how travel providers aregonna start to be able to work
with you, but developersactually can now can they they
can build apps based on thisplatform and that traveler.

(48:06):
So tell us a little bit aboutthose plans, because that's a
that's an interesting answer.

SPEAKER_14 (48:09):
So that's the the biggest part is that we we want
to have a full development tool,uh developer toolkit, API
access, uh, MCP, because reallyso much is driven off of MCPs
these days.
Um so we we want uh anybody tobe able to consume and create
and publish to a Traveler MDfile.
So let's say that you are a railoperator across Europe and you

(48:30):
want to be able to make surethat all of your customers have
uh personalization capacitiesattached to it.
So it remembers that, hey, weare your preferred rail
supplier.
Um we know that you like theseroutes, we know that you like
this information.
Uh that information can bewritten into the MD files, but
then you can consume it from thesame user as well.
Um so so much of what we've beentrying to work around is there's

(48:53):
this whole concept of consentarchitecture.
Who provides consent and towhom?
And can you um grant or withwith uh withdraw your consent
any moment in time?
So we really try to make surethat that.
Uh but yes, there's a lot morecoming soon for the developer
community.
Uh we've been working on the APIdocumentation to let others um
publish to and and pull fromthese TravelerMD files.

(49:15):
But that's definitely thego-to-market.

SPEAKER_10 (49:17):
Fantastic.
And given you have so manythings in the works, I'm also
keen to ask you.
I've got two more questions foryou, John, while we have this
time together.
Is what's next for travel AIbeyond um traveler.md, given you
have so many different projectsand initiatives.
I know you've been uh adding toyour team.
You've got some fantastic ShyGabai who's been on our podcast
before.
He's joined your team, andBrianna, who I mentioned, is the

(49:38):
director of AI.
Um, Josh, who's been fantasticto work with.
I mean, like you're building anall-star team.
So tell us what's next forTravel AI.
And clearly being here is youknow, you've got this one major
launch, but you guys can uh youguys got a lot going on.

SPEAKER_14 (49:52):
Uh we have been growing successfully through
acquisition.
Um, but really it's notacquisition that people would
look at it from a here's a newvertical or a new market.
We've been basically looking atuh can you go out and acquire um
a couple things.
One being traffic.
We love traffic, uh, but theother one we love we we love is
brand.
Can you go out and acquirebrands?

(50:13):
Uh I think one thing that's nottaken for uh not a lot of people
realize is that so much of theAI world is based on um trust,
obviously, because the worldruns on trust.
But uh we we we acquired lastyear ownerdirect.com.
Uh owner direct was a 40-yearbrand in the short-term rental
space.
We acquired SmartTours.

(50:34):
Um we acquired Kasai.
These are existing operationalunits that um basically we can
borrow the brand that theyestablished, and then that
basically is very good fodderfor the AI uh systems
themselves.
Um as you know, we drive a lotof traffic, uh we drive a lot of
demand on behalf of ourpartners, and the more we can do
from that perspective, itsatisfies them but gives us more

(50:56):
data.
Um we think that our uh that nowthat we've launched TravelerMD,
it's going to be a race for usto get as many travel profiles
created as fast as we can.
So anything we can do toaccelerate that adoption of a of
a standard is kind of large parton our roadmap.
But at the same time, it goesback to we can't do that without

(51:17):
having the government memoryside on the other side because
you go talk to these largetravel companies and they'd love
to be able to implement it, butthey can't unless they can
basically get past thedepartment of no from the legal
and compliance team that thatsays you can't do this, you
can't do use these differenttechnologies.
So we have to kind of build oneside and uh and the other side
concurrently to that.

SPEAKER_10 (51:36):
Yeah, every organization has a department of
no.
Department of No.

SPEAKER_14 (51:39):
Often it's finance, but but often uh especially in
large European groups, it's it'sthis legal and compliance for uh
EU regulations.

SPEAKER_10 (51:46):
Well, that's great.
Um one thing I actually want tojust finish off with is when we
look at uh what else brings youhere to this event, because have
you been to Focus Right Europebefore?

SPEAKER_14 (51:55):
First time focus right uh Chris was here last
year.
Um he said definitely have tocome.
It's it's smaller than the US,but there's uh great
conversation to be had withsenior executives all from all
across Europe.
So first time for Barcelona.
No, not first time in Barcelona,but first time for Focus Right
Europe, Barcelona for myself.

SPEAKER_10 (52:10):
Yeah, it's and that's why I wanted to ask you
that.
Like your observations.
I know we're at day one so far,but and you have the big launch.
Were any other reasons that youuh were there any other specific
reasons you came to Focus RightEurope this year or as far as
the sessions, the networking,other the benefits of being
here?

SPEAKER_14 (52:23):
Well, I I I hate to say it, but I've never been
inside Sagrada Familia.
So going inside the church wasuh obviously a career um or
bucket list item for me.
So what I saw was Marcelinesaid, yeah, I can probably make
sure I can convince my wife tocome as well and go there.
So but I I shouldn't say that.
Um no, uh it's uh travel AIreally is a global company.
Uh we have people around theworld who work for us.

(52:44):
We have you're talking about ourbench strength of of people,
they're all around the world.
Um the we're we've just launcheda first Arabic brand the other
day.
We have a Japanese brand, wehave a French brand, Spanish
brand.
Um we are a global company.
And if you look at theapplication of AI to the travel
industry, travel is global.
Like it's you you go where thepeople are.

(53:06):
Um I spoke with a famousentrepreneur uh one time and and
he was talking about going backand forth across the US and
saying, why are you going sofrequently from to the other
side of the Mississippi?
And he said, You got to fishwhere the fish are.
It's the same sort of thing.
It's there's um the Europeanmarket is a massive market.
Uh we from a volume standpointof a current business, we we do

(53:27):
a lot of work out of Europe.
Um, but it's like I've hadconversations with people from
from from Cape Town, from umfrom the Middle East, from it's
this is a global hub right now,and it's just no better place to
be.

SPEAKER_10 (53:39):
Yeah.
Well, I I certainly saw lastyear uh the the number of
Americans that were here inEurope and looking to expand
their businesses, and I see alot of American companies here
again this year.
I know next year the conferenceuh is gonna be in London.
So uh continuing on.

SPEAKER_14 (53:52):
I've been to London before.
That's that's that's less lessexciting to me.

SPEAKER_10 (53:55):
True enough.
Fair fair enough.
I love London, but there'ssomething special about
Barcelona, the sunshine.
Exactly.
Yeah, it's been great beinghere.
It was obviously really nice tosee your wife again last night.
I'm glad you got the SagradaFamilia experience in because
that's extraordinary.
Um but just to close off forpeople who want to reach out to
you, John, uh directly or to getto know the team.
Clearly, I've mentioned thewebsite.
But what would be the best waysfor people to reach out for you

(54:16):
with collaborationopportunities?

SPEAKER_14 (54:18):
Uh I'm I'm very much a LinkedIn user.
Uh I'm frequently on there.
Um follow me on LinkedIn, joinmessage me on LinkedIn.
I I am quite responsive, even tothe lot of the spammers and the
bots that are out there rightnow.
Um so LinkedIn's great, but umuh John at travelai.com is the
best email to reach me at.
Um visit our website, uh, newwebsite's coming soon.

(54:39):
Um go to TravelerMD, create yourprofile.
Um yeah.
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (54:45):
Well, congrats to you and the team on the launch
of TravelerMD here in Barcelonaat the FocusRight Conference.
Obviously, perfect timing forthat.
And congrats on your continuedsuccess with the team, with all
the products you're introducing.
And of course, you know, thanksfor our continued collaboration
and partnership and you knowbeing a key part of the travel
trends story of you have beenover the last couple of years.
And terrific to have you back atour summit later this year, and

(55:06):
hopefully we'll see you inToronto.
Um, but yeah, thanks again foreverything and a look and good
luck with the rest of theconference.

SPEAKER_14 (55:12):
Thank you.
My pleasure.

SPEAKER_10 (55:14):
Our next guest here on this event spotlight at Focus
Right is a very dear friend ofmine, someone that all of our
travel trends community is veryfamiliar with from our
collaboration at Forbes TravelGuide, our friendship over the
years, his presentations at ourAI conferences, and his
involvement in many of ourpodcasts.
It is Stuart Grife, my reallygood buddy, and for the first

(55:36):
time ever, at Focus Right Europetogether, which is really cool.
And Stuart, of course, is thechief strategy and innovation
officer at Forbes Travel Guide.
Stuart, welcome back to theshow.

SPEAKER_07 (55:47):
Muchas gracias.
Buenos días, el Dan del TravelTrends podcast.
It's great to be here.
Uh by the way, Dan, I think thisis uh now that I think it's
about my tenth time on yourprogram, which is wonderful, I
appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_10 (56:03):
I gotta get one of those jackets like uh Saturday
Live from Ten Timer Club.

SPEAKER_07 (56:06):
I I think if you look for um uh from the 1970s, a
lot of hotels have carpetremnants.
It's amazing how cheap you canget them and put them into suits
without an old wallpaper.
But I believe now you have topunch my card and I get a free
panini, or if I'm in the States,that's a free subway sandwich.

SPEAKER_10 (56:21):
And that needs to be a new thing, I guess.
Yeah.
But tell us what are you doinghere?
What is Stuart doing here fromForbes Travel Guide at Focused
Right Barcelona?

SPEAKER_07 (56:28):
Well, there are so many, many things, including uh
serving on a jury in Madridwhere I'm headed tomorrow for
the Traveling for HappinessAwards, which is that's a good
jury to be on.

SPEAKER_10 (56:36):
I wasn't sure what you were involved in there.

SPEAKER_07 (56:38):
Which really celebrates a lot of categories
from sustainability and socialimpact to um and not just
hotels, it's across uhcategories now, airlines, those
that are kind of doing good.
And it started with the MadridHotel Association, which still
runs it, but it's really nowexpanded beyond even the
Spanish-speaking diaspora andothers.
And then I'm always doing 20different things.

(56:58):
So we've got, you know, goodfriends and clients and meetings
here and in town, and beyondthat in Paris.
I've got a two-plus uh week tripin Europe.
And most of all, um, you know,as Satya uh Nadella, Microsoft's
uh CEO, uh exhorted to all of uswhen we were there, be a learn
it all, not a know-it-all.
And things are changing andmoving so quickly in many ways

(57:20):
in the technology, even asthere's lags for the industry to
change.
And so to understand what'sgoing on in different countries
and Europe and different partsof the travel ecosystem in which
we play, um uh AI obviously isfront and center.
Those are all things that arereally important, especially at
a time the hotel industry is atthis critical turning point,
which I want to dig into alittle bit of how do you find

(57:43):
profitability, um, howtechnology might be able to help
that finally, and brands uh aswell as hotel owners seem much
more open and flexible given theurgency around kind of the
profit motive to be able tosustainably have their real
estate investment be profitable.

SPEAKER_10 (58:00):
Well, one of the things I just want to call out
for our listeners, especiallyfor any of you that are just
meeting Stuart for the firsttime, and obviously I call him a
dear friend for a reason becausewe've been very close now for
like 10 years and we've workedtogether in multiple different
capacities.
And when you meet good peopleand you know good people, you
know, they're you know, in termsof like his not only his
business pedigree, but hispersonal standing and his
values, he's very much an allyfor women.

(58:22):
Um, and that's something thatobviously is meant is important
to me given being raised by asingle mom.
And uh Stuart and I have satdown and said, wait a second, we
can't record this becausethere's no female sitting
around, no female executivesaround the table.
And so that's something he'sgenuinely conscientious of.
And um, in the in this age whereall of a sudden it's become
taboo to talk about DEI, it'ssomething that you're still a
strong advocate for.

(58:43):
Um, and obviously we have manyuh friends in common, given uh
our collaborations over theyears.
And so those are a few things Ithink our listeners should know
about Stuart.

SPEAKER_07 (58:54):
You know, thank you for for opening the door on
that.
Um, in fact, uh, we just with uhCharlotte Lamp Davies, I just
recorded a follow-up for ITBerlin, ITB Berlin speaking
about luxury and brought JanetSemenova in.
Um generally, and and I'd askany any male allies out there,
or all men, uh, if you're askedto speak on a panel or speak at

(59:14):
an event, uh please insist onone requirement, which is
there's at least one woman, andideally also a person of color,
which I also request as well ifit's going to be, you know,
multiple.
Um I think you know, the thethere's a famous quote that a
woman said um at a Harvard grabgraduation, which is uh talent
is equally distributed,opportunity is not.

(59:36):
And I have seen, because youknow, one of the things I love
doing broadly, not specific toany one group, is just
connecting people in theindustry and the course of
Forbes Travel Guide and all thewonderful things that we're
doing and uh the role that I getto play in supporting our team
and our clients, is that youhave a conversation, and Dan,
you tell me something about whatyou're doing with travel trends,
and I'm like, oh geez, you needto talk to so and so.

(59:57):
It doesn't take that much timefor me to walk you over and do
an introduction.
We just did it with uh the gooddoctor from Raku 10.
Yeah.
And I just connected her withMatthew from Amparity.
That little connection, right,creates and unlocks value.
And I've seen the differenceaccess and the difference that
kind of little thing can makethe difference of whether it's a
startup or somebody else beingsuccessful or not.

(01:00:20):
And also the ability then to um,you know, frankly, uh reflect
more broadly when you look atthe data on women or different
groups um that aren't even closeto equally represented in access
to capital, and especially whenwomen or others are not in the
room and not represented to makesure their voice is heard and to
be an advocate for them.

SPEAKER_10 (01:00:40):
Yeah, no, and I wanted to highlight that because
it's not something that we wouldotherwise have been talking
about on this event spotlight,but it is incredibly important.
You mentioned Charlotte LampDavies, who also um uh is
someone that's been on ourpodcast, but also someone that's
very active in a similar space.
And she actually even mentorsyoung men.
I think so one of the bestthings that she can do with her
time is mentoring young men, notmentoring young women, but how

(01:01:01):
they can be more inclusive intheir approach and how you know
so it's really fascinating.
So two extraordinary individualsthere that are doing some great
things in this industry.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:09):
And like you, uh Charlotte Charlotte Lamp Davies
was also playing a leading rolein Forge Travel Guide The Summit
over the years as well.
We we we have this alumninetwork of these amazing people
that have been part of you knowour community as well.
That to me, you're always a partof that community.

SPEAKER_10 (01:01:24):
Yeah, well, one thing I want to ask you, and
this this connects to your uh Iguess kind of the big heart that
you have when it comes to ourindustry and helping people in
need.
Um that's certainly been thecase in the Middle East in the
last uh several months.
And coming to uh Monaco lastyear, the Forbes Travel Guide
Conference, there were so manyextraordinary uh uh GMs from

(01:01:46):
these beautiful properties inthe Middle East, many of which
in Saudi Arabia, many in Dubai,of course.
And it was fascinating.
And I was there was so manyplaces I'm still keen to
explore.

SPEAKER_07 (01:01:56):
We had really great relationships with the Qatari,
uh tourism and government folkswere part of that as well, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (01:02:03):
So given everything that's gone on the last few
months, and this is where uh youhad the privilege to also attend
day one of the conference wherethe Middle East conference for
focus rate was moved here toBarcelona, uh, condensed, but
basically to still go ahead withthat conference, even though it
couldn't be held in the MiddleEast at the moment.
From the moment that the warbroke out, you were very active

(01:02:23):
supporting a lot of thehoteliers in that region.
And um, and I think that I Istrongly um admire that.

SPEAKER_07 (01:02:30):
My colleague Samira Demess really, you know, led the
charge.
Of course, all of us first andforemost were concerned for the
guests, the colleagues, our teamin the region itself, as well as
everybody's well-being affectedand and and not losing a focus
of that being the highestpriority.
And then secondarily, what arethe ways we can help reconnect

(01:02:50):
people, be able to get themwhere they need to be and make
sure that they can then takecare directly of their teams and
people not get stuck in Monaco?
So under Samira's leadership forus, myself, Herman, our CEO, uh
uh certainly, and our entiresenior team helping support
Samira, supporting our clientsand their guests.

SPEAKER_10 (01:03:09):
So tell us what's happened in the last few months,
obviously, not from uh uh thenews and the politics, but in
terms of what's been happeningin the Middle East market and
specifically where we findourselves now with some of the
data that was shared atyesterday's conference.
Because I saw you had posted anumber of the uh reports on
LinkedIn.
So, yeah, tell us your take onwhat's happened in the Middle
East and the hospitality.

SPEAKER_07 (01:03:28):
Yeah, there was some really great uh data shared by
some of the presenters aroundshowing, you know, obviously the
media effects after uh theevents in February and what's
come from that.
You know, certainly travel inother regions, uh different uh
ways of connecting to Asia, youknow, folks had to kind of tack
around that.
Um, a lot of people were stilltraveling, they were going to

(01:03:49):
other places.
Certain countries have moredomestic demand, such as Saudi
Arabia, um, and others are youknow almost completely
dependent, uh, for example, onairlift from overseas like uh
Qatar.
So it's a it's it's hopeful thatseems most recently there's at
least positive direction thatthings are starting to move in
the direction.
I think that the gist foreverybody is that you know, it

(01:04:12):
the the most likely scenarioright now is about 18 months for
kind of fuller recovery to wherewe were before that time.
And um you can see uh onLinkedIn I posted some data, but
this is Focus Right With, andthese are some of their
presenters sharing just kind ofdetailed insights.
Um and please, uh if you'd like,uh follow both of us, follow Dan
Christian and TravelTrans,follow Forbes Travel Guide,

(01:04:35):
follow me.
I often post uh share data umwith the industry um that helps
uh just kind of share wisdom,knowledge, insight uh so that we
can all make good decisions.
Because um this is an industrywhere, uh, as Barry Diller said,
where there's life, there'stravel.
And there's no doubt in theMiddle East and different
countries, travel will return,and and I believe robustly.

(01:04:55):
Um and globally, uh, you know,since time immemorial, we
traveled for survival, then wetraveled next uh for commerce
and eventually to explore theworld and now ourselves.
And I think younger generations,that's gonna happen.
So, you know, what what I reallylove is uh seeing events like
this where there is so muchopportunity now.
I think AI in a way umchallenges geographically that

(01:05:19):
we really do adapt and adjustvery quickly, um, even as um I
think there are a lot of legacyconstraints um that we need to
tack around in terms oftechnology and systems.
The technology is there, ittakes time, it takes capital,
and I think this change mayaccelerate the adoption of that
for simple reasons out ofnecessity, right?

(01:05:40):
The COVID pulled forward digitaladoption in a way that might
have otherwise taken 10 years orlonger, if that, you know,
without a crisis.

SPEAKER_10 (01:05:48):
Yeah, so true.
And obviously, there's that uhall kidding aside, when you were
talking about uh the reasonsthat you came to the conference,
clearly there was benefityesterday of being a part of the
Middle East reports in thosesessions.
You know, we've now just arecoming to the end of the very
first uh full day of sessions.
I know you've been somethingattending some of the
roundtables and panels.
And uh when uh Stuart mentionedabout sharing on LinkedIn, he's

(01:06:10):
a prolific poster on LinkedIn.
He's one of the best people tofollow for the simple reason
that he is very active in thecommunity at events and often
sharing, and also showcasing allthe people that come together.
You're always tagging people andand it's uh and it's celebrating
and elevating.

SPEAKER_07 (01:06:24):
There are so many great people that have
perspectives and stuff.
It doesn't mean that they're theonly person that has a view.
I mean, each of us uh you knowbrings something to the
conversation in perspective, andand there's you know, people
that may not have the audience,younger people that are you know
specialized in certain areas ordoing amazing things to help
give visibility, to help inform,to help round out
understandings, because lifeisn't black and white or the

(01:06:46):
lights on or off, there's dimmerswitches, there's complexity,
there's nuance, there'sconflicting views and
contradictory.
The describing an elephantdepending on what part, whether
you're touching the tail, thetrunk, the body, the legs,
sounds very different, and yetthey're all parts of what an
elephant is, just like ourindustry.
Um, and depending where you aregeographically, depending upon
what sub segment of theindustry, what function, where

(01:07:09):
you are, and which company andwhat you see is very different,
including in different countriesin Europe.
It's not a monolith, right?
We say it's you know, focusright Europe, but uh even as an
American, uh, you know, I knowEurope is not a monolith, and
you know, which country and whatare we talking about in the
Middle East?
Same thing.
They're different countries,vital differences to understand
geographically, uh in terms ofuh religious tourism, for

(01:07:32):
example, uh in Saudi.
And that that's a very uniquekind of demand market that's
very dynamic and different thananywhere else in the world.

SPEAKER_10 (01:07:40):
Yeah, I love that celebrate and elevate.
And that's one of the thingsthat you know you do so well
because it's not about look atme, I'm at this conference.
It is elevating the people thatare there and uh helping to uh
to lift their voices and andgive them an audience.
So along the same lines, Stuart,from today's events at the
conference, what would youcelebrate and elevate from

(01:08:00):
today's Focus Right conference?

SPEAKER_07 (01:08:02):
I think you know it gets to what is the essence of
our industry, which is humanconnection.
Look around, we're at thistechnology convention.
I don't see any avatars uh inthe metaverse here.
I don't see uh AI or robotstalking to one another.
Um, I don't know if you can pickup momentarily the background
noise of this or maybe catch asoundbite of it later.

(01:08:26):
The amount of vitalconversations, of human
connection, of not beingtransactional, of you know, of
conversations.
Of course, there has to bemutual value for two companies
or organizations to say, hey,how do we work commercially?
But this is also about you knowgetting to know each other,
getting to learn, getting toexchange perspective and having
fun.
I often say we're not curingcancer.

(01:08:47):
This isn't life and death in thetravel industry.
And and most often, you know,we're supporting people in
moments of joy and creatingmemory, and how do we do that
better?
And so what always um brings meback, even in the age of AI, is
it's all in support of thishuman experience of us, you
know, expanding each other.
Uh one of my friends, Pico Ayer,who's a well-known writer who

(01:09:08):
writes about travel, uh, saidsomething to the factor wrote to
the effect of, you know, wetravel first to lose ourselves,
we travel next to findourselves.
And, you know, the the thisextent to which it it's
expanding who we are in a waythat is so energizing is just
remarkable to me.
And I see that all over theworld, and I see it in what we

(01:09:28):
do every day, because ultimatelywe're in a business of caring.
Right?
Maybe there are some playersthat look at it like human
logistics and transport, um, andthat that can be a challenge if,
you know, or people that arelooking just at the numbers and
squeeze, squeeze, squeeze andforget that what is actually
gonna make you stand out,ironically, in the age of AI,
right, McKinsey data, 20% orless of how you stand out of the

(01:09:50):
LMs are things you control, yourwebsite, your marketing, et
cetera.
80% plus is your reputation.
It's what other people think ofyou or talking about you, rate
you, reputable sources, etcetera.
And so if you're gonna stand outin a smaller world of a subset
of recommendations, if you'renot the low-cost carrier, you
better be differentiated and youbetter be giving a good
experience.
I don't think, Dan, when youtravel, you're gonna ask your

(01:10:12):
digital assistant, hey, am Iprice point near this location?
Give me like five mediocrechoices that are blah hotels.
You know, you're gonna say theones that really care have like
a great experience, right?

SPEAKER_10 (01:10:23):
Yeah, exactly.
I never look at anything that'snot wonderful or above when I'm
uh as a booking.com rating.
Uh but let's talk about Forbestravel guide and what you're
working on and and where uh thatnot only industry, but also your
role is is headed because you'reacross a lot of things, and
obviously it's great having youhere at Focus, right?
Obviously, I always enjoy yourcompany and your perspective,

(01:10:44):
and and so I could definitelytalk more about that at length.
But I also want to make sure ourlisteners understand the work
that you do outside of being ata conference like this, because
you are you know you're not onlyuh another jury, you're giving a
keynote at uh Bugatti.
You've got so many amazingthings going on, Stuart, and I'm
so happy and pleased for you.
So tell everyone what what elseyou're up to, what's happening
with Forbes Travel Guide.

SPEAKER_07 (01:11:05):
Yeah, I I think I would start at the core, which
is every day my colleagues andI, you know, around the world
wake up and are excited tosupport all of the folks, all
the colleagues in the industrythat are providing service and
hospitality to their guests inevery part of the value chain.
And that includes obviouslyhotels, restaurants, spa, um,

(01:11:28):
cruise lines that many peopleknow us for, but also high-end
residential, high-endautomotive, and not just in
luxury, we also provide thatexpertise in other ways.
And so our mission is how do wemake that more valuable, how do
we make that more impactful?
So in recent years, underRichard Liebowitz and Herman,
our CEO, we brought in traveladvisors to add more value to

(01:11:48):
the hotels and the cruise linesand help educate them, help
elevate service.
And uh, you know, I had afriend, uh Rick Garlic, who's
ex-merits that worked for me atJD Power, and he told this
wonderful story about he hadthis amazing dry cleaner, and
this guy was so warm, sohospital.
He'd come in, bear hug, heyRick, how are you doing?
How are the kids?
He remembered things about how'dyour son's baseball game the

(01:12:10):
other day, or your daughter, youknow, how was her field hockey
game?
Um and Rick would say there wasjust one problem.
And I was like, What's that,Rick?
It's like he's a terrible drycleaner.
So hospitality, absolutelycaring and love, but you need
this service.
And then every brand, even whatwe do for travel guide, is
different.
And and we don't uh put on evenin our 900-plus standards in

(01:12:32):
just hotels, restaurants, spa,it's not you must act this way.
It's broad-based to beapplicable.
Warm welcome looks verydifferent in Kyoto, Japan, than
it does in Berlin, than it doesin Austin, Texas, and it and it
ought to.
And so, you know, for us, Ithink that's part of our
mission.
And um we've rolled out moree-learning and starting to have
certification, uh, initiallyluxury hospitality

(01:12:54):
professionals, so that they cantake the hard work that they've
already earned and demonstratethat and lever that in a way
that has recognition that canhelp support them when they're
looking for opportunities togrow in their career.
The other thing I'll say, and Ithink this is really important
to understand, um, it's truewhere our core is in luxury, and
it's true broadly.
If you think about the growth inluxury, not just hotels, I mean

(01:13:17):
the number of yachts, privateresidences, you know, we're kind
of in this middle-sized bubblefrom this smaller one from five,
ten years ago in the growth ofluxury.
And looking ahead, the forecastsof luxury hotels and uh new
yachts uh being launched andprivate residences and other
services, experiences, etcetera, is expected to roughly
double in the next five to sevenyears.

(01:13:38):
Okay, five years is theestimate, even if it's seven, so
be it.
Where are the people comingfrom?
The younger generation, it'salready a challenge with talent
to be able to um get people towant to work in the service
industry.
Now you're you you can't createour CEOs, Herman Elger, a
world-class five-star hotel yearthat Baccarat, some montage, uh
when Ritz Carlton was growing,led many hotels, openings around

(01:14:01):
the world during its seminalgrowth phase.
You can't you can't clone andcreate a Herman in five years or
ten years.
And it's not just the Hermans asthe GM, it's the heads of FB,
it's the head of housekeepingand by the in rooms, and by the
way, it's every level inbetween.
So as we're doubling, thechallenge I think over the next
five years is how do we maintainlevels of hospitality and

(01:14:23):
service?
How do we do it not just at thehighest levels, but at every
level?
And what are the tools and wayswe can help support them, which
is why I'm so bullish about umour opportunity to help support
that growth and providinglearning in digital formats that
people can access.
And you know, a lot of peoplearen't, you know, at a laptop
the way you or I might be,right?

(01:14:44):
They're frontline folks.
And then I see exciting startupslike Abra Hospitality that's
really creating that missinglink, uh, especially at luxury
hotels where there's systems andmaybe in the front office,
there's notes in the boards, andpeople have stand-up.
There's not a good way today toreally put that at the
fingertips and deliver thatpersonalization.
So they're kind of like lastmile delivery of the luxury

(01:15:06):
guest experience, and they'vebeen gathering a lot of
interesting uh traction.
But there's also innovationslike this company Tech
Chexology, that's part of ourAstria Live luxury uh suppliers
to the industry, but as digitalsolutions for like valet and bag
check, that's better for guestsand also coat check, um, but
also better for the hotelcolleagues and trying to figure

(01:15:27):
out a big hotel, you know, wheredo we put the bags?
So I think like there'sinnovation everywhere.
And as uh Chris Hemeter ofTheraventure said, and I'm
paraphrasing, you know, earlierthis morning, I think the the
pressure of profit and andchallenge now has CEOs, you
know, turning to their CIOssaying, like, hey, we need to
address this.
Um, that that this finally thisperiod, because the need for

(01:15:50):
growth and profitable growth,um, especially for real estate
assets and hotels, has gottensuch a squeeze to the point that
it's a real challenge.
The brands are doing well.
And you could argue there was aWall Street Journal article this
morning, and then I'll pauseafter this point, that talked
about one of the bigmulti-global brand uh chains um
that uh some of their um theirreal estate owners are balking

(01:16:14):
at their loyalty program becausethe brand is making a ton of
money and they're not.
So are we at this Walmart momoment where you know if the the
the products at Walmart, ifthose companies can't make
profit and get so squeezed andWalmart takes all the profit
out, there's not a business.
And so the brands are doingwell, but the real estate
investors, not so much.

(01:16:35):
And you can look at the publicones and talk about it.
And that reinvention, the PL,whether it's Alex Cabanias at
his stown, who's PyramidHospitality's chairman looking
at innovation.
I think we're all leaning intotech and innovation and new ways
to free up, and AI included, uh,free up administrative uh to be
able to focus more on thehospitality and and and unlock

(01:16:56):
some of the cost and tractablethings that are now doing it.
But I do do think we may havethis pushback against the
brands, which uh I, you know,we're Switzerland.
I'm not trying to play one orthe other.
It's recognition that it's cometo the point where everybody
needs to do well because eventhe big brands, if they don't
have people that want to investin hotels because it's not
profitable enough, their brandsaren't growing.

(01:17:16):
So it's got to be the symbioticbalance.
And right now, I think whetherum in in hotels in particular,
whether brand management companywhere sometimes management
companies with traditionalcontracts were making money
while the owners were losing it,all of this needs kind of this
disruptive evolution, maybe, asopposed to disparaging it at
work.
But when it doesn't work, whatdo we do next?

SPEAKER_10 (01:17:37):
Yeah, yeah.
And this is where Stuart, youhave so much to share, and I
think our listeners obviouslyheard that there.
There's and then we get thisconversation, it could go in a
number of different directions,which is why you're a 10-timer
on the podcast.
And you're uh uh one other thingI wanted to highlight to our
listeners is that Stuart uh isgonna be back for our summit
later this year.
Uh we've been a key part of itthe last two years.

(01:17:58):
We've done the AI summit for thelast two years, and this year
we're opening it up to beyond AIand the human connection, which
I know Stuart is so wellpositioned to speak to as well,
as you'd get a sense from ourconversation now, around you
know where technology has a roleand where humans are still
important to the whole travelprocess.
And um so I want to make sure,Stuart, that people can like me
connect with you, follow you,um, and uh especially given all

(01:18:20):
the cool stuff that you've gotgoing on.
So, what would be the best waysfor our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_07 (01:18:25):
Yeah, LinkedIn, um just just connect with me
because I do post a lot.
Uh, you know, we don't have tobe talking every day, every
week.
Um I share things um if I youknow read a report or uh news
articles, I read it anyway.
And my my approach is if I thinkthis is interesting, I think
this might be interesting toother folks out there.
Let me share what I think someof the key insights are, you

(01:18:45):
know, put it out there.
So um LinkedIn's the best way.
Um I do eventually get to myLinkedIn messages.
I do get quite a bit of spam umlike many of us, so sometimes it
takes me longer that way.
And if you have a genuine needor genuine opportunity um that
that's mutual, and even if it'snot Forbes travel guide, if I
can help redirect or you know,within my bandwidth create a

(01:19:06):
connection, I try to do, I'm notperfect.
Nobody bats you know, a thousandor a hundred.
Um and sometimes uh I might needa little reminder.
Uh you know, right now I'mtraveling on the road a little
over two weeks, and uh I was uhin New York and the East Coast
uh for a little over a week withtime for family in between,
which is always the foundation.
So with my wife's support andpermission, and she's a great

(01:19:27):
partner and also in the travelindustry, by the way.
She's a luxury leisure advisor,but I'll keep her privacy and
anonymity.
Um uh but yeah, I think that umthat's that's the best way.
And then uh please do alsofollow Dan, Travel Trends
Productists, make sure, becausethat virtual AI Travel Trends
annual event has really become,I think in the last two to three

(01:19:49):
years, you know, one of the bestways to get the breadth and
depth across the span of theindustry.
And because it's virtual, itenables us to do things.
Yes, we miss out a little bit oneverybody being in one room, but
from a cost-time perspective andalso the ability then to get
speakers that otherwiseschedules wouldn't line up or
geographies wouldn't line up.
It really is, I think, probablythe the both the most

(01:20:11):
comprehensive across theindustry.
And I also think at a time ofyear that it that it comes in
that you get able to go in depthin different areas as well with
really top speakers, um, givenhow much things are changing.
Maybe five years from now, it'slike, okay, things are a little
bit more established or derigueur.
I think it'll still be vital.
Um, but right now, um, even justcoming here and seeing that many

(01:20:34):
of the challenges and questionsthat uh companies and players in
different markets in Europe andthe Middle East have are the
same ones we're facing in NorthAmerica or South America or Asia
Pacific.
Um, it really does seem thatwe're all kind of coming around
and coalescing, you know, insimilar places and having many
of the same questions.
I love there's there's an oldsaying that um, you know, uh

(01:20:57):
answers change, but questionsendure.
And uh I think that's that'scertainly the case here.

SPEAKER_10 (01:21:03):
Yeah, that's great.
And that's a perfect way tofinish up our our chat for
today.
But um, and I just wanted tounderscore what uh Stuart had
kindly mentioned, which was thatyou know we found that our
audience speakers and sponsorsoverwhelmingly wanted us to keep
our event virtual so that peoplecan attend from anywhere and get
the most benefit.
So it seems to fit with ourethos of you know a global

(01:21:25):
podcast with listeners aroundthe world, is that we keep it
available to everyone.
We don't fix it to a location.
But one of the things we aredoing, especially going into
2027, is being is doing morein-person events as well, but
small smaller, 50, 100 people,live podcast recordings, giving
people the opportunity tonetwork and get to meet other
listeners and uh realize otherbusiness opportunities.

SPEAKER_07 (01:21:44):
This is great.
I mean, at Focus Right, whenwhen you did this at our event
and others, I think it gives uhan incredible dimension and
depth and the ability to getperspective, especially even if
you're here, you may not get aswell as after, and then you get
uh you do such a great jobbringing in big brands, small
brands, innovators, like such aum not eclectic, such a curated

(01:22:04):
mix that provides, I think, ineach one value, and then
collectively, all the differentfolks you interview gives you a
real kind of palpable sense ofwhere we are in a way that um
you know it it it is uhotherwise you'd have to, you
know, condense down all sorts ofstuff.
So I I I love the mix in the wayyou do that with travel trends.

(01:22:25):
And I think you have a unique,well, you've always had a unique
voice.
Um, and uh for all the jokingaround as friends that we do in
the industry, um I you know Ilove what you're doing.
It's uh doing tremendous serviceto the industry and has a unique
voice out there that complementsand amplifies everything else
that's uh in the industry aswell.

SPEAKER_10 (01:22:43):
So thank you, Stuart.
It's very kind of you to say,and obviously it means the world
to me uh uh to hear you saythat, and given uh uh how long
we've known each other and theopportunities you've created for
us, and um you know, I want tostart or I want to finish off by
for saying thank you.
Thank you for everything you dofor the industry, thank you for
everything you've done for uhfor travel trends, and obviously

(01:23:04):
I'm so keen to continue to seehow you how you continue to
elevate the uh the industry.
And I look forward to having youback at our event and keeping in
touch.
But safe travels, best to youand the family, and thanks for
joining us on this episode.

SPEAKER_07 (01:23:16):
Thanks for the opportunity, Dan, best to
everyone out there.

SPEAKER_10 (01:23:20):
Our next guest is the CEO of Civitatus, Andreas
Spitzer.
And uh Civitatus has been anamazing partner of Travel Trends
for the last uh two years,season six and season seven.
So many of our listeners arevery familiar with Civitatus,
and obviously we love thepartnership that we have with
you and the team, and it'swonderful to be here in Spain.
You're based in Madrid, we'rehere in Barcelona for uh Focus

(01:23:43):
Right, and I finally have thechance to interview the CEO,
Andres Spitzer.
Andreas, welcome to TravelTrends.
Thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_13 (01:23:51):
Thank you.
Very happy, very excited to behere with you to share a chat.
Um excited to be in Focus Right.
This is my first Focus Right.
So I I guess this is the bestway to start.
Yeah, that's fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (01:24:01):
I don't know.
I've gotten to meet Enrique, uh,who many of our listeners know
as well.
And um the so the opportunity tosit down with you now as a CEO.
Tell us a little bit about yourbackground, first of all,
because you've taken over theCEO role just in the last year
and a half.

SPEAKER_13 (01:24:15):
Yeah, so I actually formerly started my CEO role in
January, right?
I enjoyed Civitatis um a yearand a half ago, as I say, I was
driving product and tech.
And my background is pretty muchentrepreneurial as well.
I've been most of my life anentrepreneur.
Uh so that a couple of years agoI sold a company to uh uh
corporate.
It was on a different industry,it was in mobility.

(01:24:37):
And then I've been uh a coupleof years as well working in
Amazon, right?
And I was another marketplace.
Yeah, we're managing Amazonbusiness, and yeah, I thought it
was going to be very fun movingfrom selling uh printers and
paper to selling experiences,right?
And uh this is the the best partof travel show, so really
enjoying it.

SPEAKER_10 (01:24:54):
No, and that's where you have animpressive background.
The previous CEO, Alberto.
I was joking with Andreas thathe recently went to space.
Tell everyone a little bit aboutthat because at first when I was
speaking to Enrique, I was like,wait, is Andreas going to space?
He's like, No, no, no, it's uhAlberto, um, the former CEO and
the uh the uh founder.
Tell everyone about his recentexperience.

SPEAKER_13 (01:25:14):
Yeah, no, I think Alberto, you know, is he's uh
he's a big traveler, so he wasprobably the last place on on
earth that he had not been yet,so he needed to go to space, and
that's probably the main reasonthey hired me, right?
They they said they wanted tohave a backup plan in case there
was something going off on theon the on the space.
Uh and uh then yeah, I I tookover and he was safe to go to

(01:25:35):
space.
And uh it was it was fun, butdefinitely it was very
impressive, right?
It was very exciting.
It was it's fun because we werein feature actually when he won
go he was um going up, and weput a TV on the stand on our
stand on feature, and it was uhuh broadcaster broadcasted live,
right?
So it was a lot of people uhwatching the event, and I it was
super super exciting.
Uh I didn't I didn't expect thatit was going to be so much you

(01:25:58):
know uh nervous, but it was uhum it was really encouraging.

SPEAKER_10 (01:26:02):
Yeah, well I was joking around with Enrique Um
that there's no way they wouldallow the existing uh CEO to go
to space, it's like investors,board members, that's just too
high risk.
But I'm I'm glad he had theopportunity, and I was joking
with Andreas that your time willcome.
Like that's you know, your time,but you've got um you know,
you've taken over a verysuccessful company, there's huge
opportunity to expand.

(01:26:23):
One of the things that's alwaysexcited me about the Civitanis
business model is theSpanish-speaking market, you
know, a billion Spanishspeakers.
There's so much focus in ourindustry around English
language, English languagesource markets, US, Canada,
Australia, UK, people going toEurope.
But you're very focused on theSpanish market and Spanish
outbound.
And we're seeing you know uhmore Mexican travelers or even

(01:26:44):
Latin America and South America,the number of people that are
traveling regionally just withinSouth America.
So all the trends are certainlypointing in the direction that
there's a massive increase inSpanish travelers outbound from
Spain, inbound to Spain.
And so you guys have had youknow been on a phenomenal growth
trajectory.
For any of our listeners thatare not familiar with Civitadas,
tell us a little bit more aboutthe company.

SPEAKER_13 (01:27:06):
So, yeah, uh, as you're saying, we've been uh
very focused on allowingtravelers to travel in their own
language without barriers, andit's been the foundational DNA
from us.
And we are today the leading uhuh marketplace in mainly on on
South of Europe and LatinAmerica.
And we do that because uh we sawe we have a very clear focus,

(01:27:26):
as you're saying, right?
We focus mainly on the Spanishand Portuguese markets, and but
we have a lot of uh underservedpeople, right?
So we have a lot of travelersthat as you were saying, um um
other OTAs are focusing onEnglish first uh uh trips.
And we focus on making sure thatthe Spanish and Portuguese
travelers can discover, enjoy,uh, and travel without any

(01:27:49):
barriers.
And and doing that is is quite ais quite a a journey as well,
right?
Because from from the beginningon how we craft the offer
connecting, understandingreally.
The Spanish speaking uhtraveler, we understand
Mexicans, we understandArgentinians, we understand
Brazilians very well.
And then we craft our offeringsin the different destinations to

(01:28:10):
make sure that there's not onlya language connection, it's more
of a cultural connection, right?
And that's why it was verynatural for us to jump to Latin
America.
We we were having Latin Americanpeople uh coming to Spain,
buying from us and asking forour products, even we're having
uh uh B2B uh travel agencies onon Latin America asking for our
Flippitis product, right?

(01:28:30):
So it was a very natural way togrow there.

SPEAKER_10 (01:28:33):
Yeah, and obviously it's really cool that this is
your first time at a Focus Rightconference.
I'm you know I've been a hugefan of Focus Right for many
years.
I know a lot of your teammembers have been to Focus Right
conferences.
Um but tell us what brings youhere to this uh obviously great
proximity.
You guys can uh yourself andEnrique and the team could take
a high-speed train uh fromMadrid to get here to Barcelona
in three hours.

(01:28:53):
Um but obviously there's tons ofuh networking opportunities and
uh tell us a little bit morewhat brings you to Focus Right
Europe.

SPEAKER_13 (01:29:00):
Yeah, so first of all, as you said, this is my
first time, so you I couldn'tmiss it, and and the proximity
makes it super convenient.
So it was it was a greatopportunity for for me to to be
uh here for the first time.
Uh this year is also special,right?
Because we've we've been uhworking with Focus Right and
Arrival to deliver um the firstreport that is being done
jointly between uh both uhcompanies, which is amazing, you

(01:29:22):
know, and until now there wasalways arrival more focusing on
the operators and uh focus righton the on the bigger uh travel
industry trends, and now beingable to sponsor and to drive uh
this new report where it'sfocusing on Europe and Latin
America, to understand thetrends, to understand how it's
affecting the especially the thechosen activities uh uh vertical

(01:29:43):
and industry is very excited.
Yeah.
Very exciting.
And we're going to be sharing aconversation later on stage
about the insights of thereport, which are interesting,
of course.
Uh but but uh being able to makesure that this joint venture is
happening between arrival andand focus right is super
exciting.

SPEAKER_10 (01:29:59):
For sure.
Yeah, and it's interesting youmentioned that because uh many
of our listeners know that theTravel Trends podcast, we work
with Focus Right and work withArrival.
And some of the team membersfrom Arrival, like Douglas
Quinby, uh Bruce Rosard used towork with the North Star team
and work at Focus Right.
So there is it's like anextended family, but Arrival
focuses exclusively on thein-destination experiences, and

(01:30:21):
focus right includes that aswell.
But clearly there uh aviation,uh hotels, it's uh it's
all-encompassing for focus rightof the entire travel industry.
I'd love to hear more about thisreport because this is one of
the reasons that I attendconferences like this, and I've
always loved Focus Right for theresearch that they do, because
at first at the heart of it,when you speak to Pete, uh, and

(01:30:44):
he's always very quick to remindme that at the heart of Focus
Right, they're a researchcompany.
So you come together for theresearch to a conference to be
able to see all this amazingreporting that they've done.
And that's something I alwaysloved about Douglas Quimby.
I always sit uh front row forDouglas Quimby, who worked at
Focus Right for many years anddid these reports, and then now
does them for Arrival.
So it's cool that you are acrossboth arrival and focus right.

(01:31:06):
Um, but tell everyone about themore details about this report
and what some of the excitinginsights you're gonna share
today.

SPEAKER_13 (01:31:12):
So, well, first, yeah, I agree.
And and I I love uh Douglas, Ithink he was the first uh person
I met on the industry when I wasuh starting, and it was super
insightful.
I I learned a lot uh when I wentto arrival first time, I was
first row as well.
And I thought he was the bestpanel from the conference uh by
far.
So very uh lots of respect forDouglas.

(01:31:32):
I've done a couple of uh talkswith him uh super super enjoyed
them.

SPEAKER_11 (01:31:37):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (01:31:37):
So the the the report is at the end we we're
always craving for data, right?
And we're craving for data whichcan be trusted.
Yeah, I think in the age of AIwhere we have a lot of uh noise
and things that you can't youdon't know what is true, and
it's difficult to understand uhwhat's right from wrong.
Um, having reports that you knowthat you can trust and you know
that it's been uh crafted in away that you can use and you

(01:31:59):
know you can rely on is uh isvery useful, especially again
today where we have all of thesemacro uh uh headwinds and things
that are happening, and theindustry is being shaken by
different angles.
Things that aretransformational, things like
AI, right?
And then you have things thatare happening uh around the
world which are uh pushing ouruh businesses.

(01:32:20):
Um data is is definitely uh uhuh a blessing and something we
need to we need to uh uh use.
And there was some gaps in thedata, especially for
experiences.
That was why we were pushing tohave data for, especially for
Latin America.
Europe, we we had uh some moreuh data and is is it's been more
it's been more frequentlyproduced.
For Latin America, it's been Ithink it's the first time for

(01:32:41):
both, right?
That they do something specific.
So that's why we're very keen toto sponsor and to make sure that
we were going to be able to pushthese these two um uh amazing
companies to produce uh jointreport so we could we could have
data that we can trust to learnwhat are the key insights uh on
on those on those markets.
And there's definitely somelearnings, right?

(01:33:02):
There's these things that we wesee on the report which are
interesting, uh seeing how thefrequency of of travel is is
changing, is is reducing less uhless trips.
Uh the share of wallet, themoney that people have to spend
uh on those trips is uh is uhalso a little bit less.
Uh, but the will to uh spend itespecially on experiences is

(01:33:22):
increasing, right?
And that's that's good news.
Uh the fact that we have peoplethat are now making the
experience the the uh center ofthe trip and uh they manage
logistics, right?
They there's many destinationsthat you want to make sure that
when you go to Rome, you'regoing to be able to see the
Colosseum, right?
That you're going to be reallyable to experience the city.
You go to Rome because you wantto do things, or you go to Peru

(01:33:44):
and you need to go to MachuPicchu, right?
There's places that you willnever uh go or you don't go
without thinking of doingsomething, to having that
experience which is going to bewith you.
I think that trend which hasbeen growing, uh, it's been
forever uh there, but now is ismore and more digitized.
Um, that's something that isstill uh increasing.

(01:34:04):
And um and the reports aregiving us the data and how this
is increasing, right?
And that's very insightful.

SPEAKER_10 (01:34:10):
And obviously, we clearly both have a huge respect
uh for Douglas Quinby and um ashe refers to it, the best part
of travel.
Yeah, and I couldn't agree more,and that's what Civitatus offers
is access to the best part oftravel, the actual experiences
in the destination.
One other thing that uh you mademe think of as you were sharing
that too, Andreas, is the factthat what's really unique about
Civitatus' model is it's truly acurated marketplace.

(01:34:32):
And so it's not about having athousand options in Rome, it's
about having the three thatreally matter.
And I think that's cuttingthrough the clutter in this um
in this era of travel is moreimportant than ever.
People just want, just recommendto me like the right trip.
I look forward to reading thatreport.
I'm uh obviously I'll lookforward to attending later
today.
For people who are gonna belistening to this afterwards, is

(01:34:54):
there gonna be a way for them toaccess that report?
Obviously, if they're part ofFocus Right, I'm sure they'll
have access to it, but willCivitatus be sharing it as well?

SPEAKER_13 (01:35:01):
No, I I think the report is going to be shared uh
um with uh Focus Right andArrival on the usual uh ways,
right?
And I think they will bedistributing it.
We are not going to distributeit, we've just been sponsoring
and and normally they theydistribute.
I don't know exactly what arethe distribution channels inside
uh both arrival and focus right,but yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (01:35:21):
Cool.
Well we'll we'll make sure thatour listeners can find it and uh
um because I'm sure a lot ofpeople will be intrigued after
this because these are thethings that our listeners
gravitate to because they wantthat knowledge and advice.
So given that you are you knowpresenting this report today,
attending Focus Right for thefirst time, and we're sitting
here having this conversationkind of midway through 2026,
tell us a little bit aboutwhat's ahead for Civitadas for

(01:35:44):
the rest of this year or some ofthe major plans you're
developing for 2027.

SPEAKER_13 (01:35:49):
So many thanks.
Uh as as you know, we are we'regrowing a lot, we're growing a
lot, especially in LatinAmerica.
So, what we want to do is ismake sure that we continue to
serve well those um customers,to make sure that we continue to
develop our network.
And as we were saying, is havinga curative uh marketplace is um
definitely more difficult thanhaving an open marketplace.

(01:36:12):
But we really believe that isthe only way to maintain
quality, right?
To maintain, to make sure thatboth we reduce this, what we
call this paradox of choice.
So when you go to Coliseum, asyou were saying, you can be sure
that you're choosing the rightexperience because it is the is
the one that we are offering.
It's going to be uh vetted, isgoing to be uh uh having a

(01:36:33):
resonance with the with thebuyer is going to be well
operated.
So we take care of all of thosethings and we don't leave that.
Um I would say uh at the buyer'suh uh luck, right?
Because when you're buying uh uhbetween uh 400 experiences in
Coliseum, you need to be luckythat you're picking the right
thing, right?
When you're doing it with us atthe end, you know it's going to

(01:36:54):
be uh uh well operated becauseit is selected.
But having that level of of uhcuration is is pretty hard,
right?
Having a big catalog is easy, uhhaving it small is is hard.
And now one of the biggest um uhwe're facing, I think industry
is facing two main changes,right?
One is on AI, on how customersare discovering, right?

(01:37:14):
The the uh the way of peoplesearching to making questions,
and now the next step is to uhasking for AI to do things.
It's is a series of uhevolutions that is happening
very fast, and it's reallytransforming this top of the
funnel, how people get inspiredand discovered.
So making sure that we are umcapitalizing our trust to be

(01:37:36):
discoverable is uh is a goodthing.
And the second thing is um thatsame transformation is
transforming uh TV Tatix, right?
And making sure that we are uhbecoming uh the company that is
going to be successful for thenext uh 20 years is is something
which requires as well a lot ofwork.
And we are having a lot of fundoing it.
It's uh exciting time to be uhdoing business, to be doing

(01:37:59):
things.
I always say it's it's neverbeen a better time to uh to
build anything to make sure thatyou're um transforming.
I'm a builder myself, I'm an I'man engineer, so I'm I'm always
uh trying to fix problems.
So I'm I'm really loving it.
That's awesome.

SPEAKER_10 (01:38:15):
Well, the one thing I know you've just built is a
new app that people candownload.
So you've dramatically improvedthe mobile experience for your
guests.
And as you say, about theenthusiasm that the Civitatus
team brings to the industry,it's always awesome seeing you
guys in all of your pinkCivitatus shirts, um, especially
right now with the World Cup on,because everyone at the World
Cup with all the players arewearing pink shoes.
I'm sure everyone's saying thatthe pink shoes are everywhere.

(01:38:37):
And I was reading a fascinatingarticle from one of the Nike
executives that was involved inthis, and I guess um one of the
things that they realized isthat a lot of the players like
to wear bold colors because itactually psychologically um
makes them perform better.
And so we didn't know that.
Yeah, and that so that was fast.
So the there's a connection foryou guys and the team, and the
um and then the other thing thatthey highlighted is that the

(01:38:57):
color that actually provides themost contrast against the green
on the field is pink.
Yeah.
And so uh this year's World Cup,not only was all the Nike
players wearing pink, but allthe other players are wearing
pink.
So going into next season,people are all gonna choose
another color because everyonechose everyone accidentally
chose pink at this World Cup.
But you guys have made it partof your brand identity.
And it was really cool at thearrival conference.

(01:39:18):
I uh was on stage and I lookedout and there was an entire row
of pink shirts of Civitatus teammembers because I think you guys
had about 10 people at thatconference.

SPEAKER_11 (01:39:26):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (01:39:26):
Uh that's really cool to see, and it's just you
know, it's always nice to uh tomeet your team because they're
always kind of fun and outgoing.
They certainly live the brand.
Um, and it's wonderful tofinally have the chance to meet
you and have a chance tointerview the CEO and to see
that the spirit and you know,clearly the culture that you
guys have at the company.
So um credit to you and the teamfor the company you've built.

(01:39:47):
Um as far as your plans for therest of the year, tell everyone
what other conferences the CivicHatus is going to be at, and
hopefully we'll see you again inuh uh Florida in November for
Focus Rate USA.

SPEAKER_13 (01:39:58):
Yeah, uh Florida, definitely.
And first of all, yes, uh let meuh do a uh comment on the on the
World Cup because definitely forsure this is something we're
discussing every day at the FCS,right?
Yeah.
And I was joking with the team acouple of days ago because I'm
sure this year we're winning.
Yeah, we even made an AIgenerated picture with uh all of
us because at the end it's okay,we are chairing Spain, we're
cheering Brazil, Argentina, uhall of the big uh uh countries.

(01:40:22):
So I'm I'm I'm pretty sure wehave a big chance of any of
this, any of this winning.
So super, super happy.
And um, and at the end it was uhCivitati's uh winning, right?
So so we're making our internalbets are around this.
And it's it's fun to see.
So regarding the the events,yes, uh uh Florida uh for sure
will will go.
Uh so we are thinking uh to uhbe on arrival in Spokane uh in a

(01:40:45):
couple of months.
Uh the rest of the events wemainly go to to B2B, travel
agencies uh events, uh much ofour team are going to those.
Um we have a uh very ambitiouscalendar.
I don't know all of all of theall of the events.
I think the next one coming isfrom the wrong is fit in in
Argentina.

(01:41:06):
Uh but yeah, on on the globalindustry, arrival, spokane, and
and Florida for focus right willbe there.

SPEAKER_10 (01:41:13):
Yeah, fantastic.
Well, I look forward to seeingyou and the team again, only in
Florida, but also in uh inSpokane for the arrival
conference in the USA and um onour continued collaborations.
I want to make sure all of ourlisteners can make sure that
they can reach out to you orconnect with the team.
I know you're active on uhLinkedIn, but what would be the
best ways for our listeners uhto reach out to you or the team
for other opportunities tocollaborate together?

SPEAKER_13 (01:41:35):
So, yeah, our website is always a first great
choice.
We have all of the details to toworking with us, to to partner
with us.
I'm super happy to to receivethose requests and we try to
make sure we cater to all ofthem and LinkedIn, if not,
right?
Or we are as you're saying,we're easy to spot, right?
We're always wearing a pinkshirt.
So whenever you see a pinkshirt, it's going to be someone
from Tibitatis and is going tobe very happy to attend to any

(01:42:00):
of you.

SPEAKER_10 (01:42:00):
And the only exception that has Alberto,
because he's wearing his blueorigin blue uh uh astronaut
outfit instead.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_13 (01:42:08):
He did, but it's not anymore.
I think he will be happy with apink shirt.
He's back to pink.
He's back to pink.
Yeah.
Oh, that's cool.
I think uh it's a cool, it's acool blue picture, right?
That you want to have as anastronaut.
Totally.
That's definitely a cool, a coolpicture to have.

SPEAKER_10 (01:42:20):
Yeah.
Well, I can't wait until it'syour turn.
And um, but yeah, Andreas, realpleasure to meet you.
Thanks again for ourpartnership, and obviously uh
great to see you and the teamand wish you every success in
the year ahead and look forwardto catching up again soon.

SPEAKER_13 (01:42:33):
Thank you.
It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_10 (01:42:36):
Our next guest is not only a great friend of mine,
but also a huge supporter of ourTravel Trends podcast, right
from season three.
It is Brennan Bliss, the CEO andfounder of Propelic.
And Brennan, to our audience, isvery well known from doing
amazing keynotes at our AISummit the last couple of years.
He'll be back again this year.
He's become a very wellrecognized figure in the

(01:42:58):
industry, uh, and it's all verywell deserved.
He's built up an amazing teamand an incredible client list,
and it's always a pleasure tocatch up with him at these
conferences.
And Brennan, I'm glad we havethe chance to sit down and have
you join us again on the TravelTrends Podcast.
Welcome back.

SPEAKER_21 (01:43:12):
Thank you so much.
Thrilled to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (01:43:14):
Yeah, you have just gone from strength to strength.
It's amazing.
One of the things that Brennanalways does at these events is
organizing a fantastic dinner,which he did on the first night.
And but tell everyone, foranyone that is not familiar,
that is just listening to thisfor the very first time and
doesn't know anything aboutPropellic and Brendan Bliss,
which is less and less.
Tell everyone about Propellicand what you guys do.

SPEAKER_21 (01:43:34):
So we work with companies that like to make
money broadly.
I feel like that's a descriptiveuh uh adjective for most of
them.
Um, but particularly throughdirect-to-consumer marketing,
uh, would be our generalspecialty, and we do that
through a couple of paths.
So um but there's a verystrategic arm in terms of how we

(01:43:55):
position and how we invest inmarketing.
But once we've decided to dothat, we also have the execution
arms associated with umadvertising.
So that would be things likeGoogle Ads, which the industry
is heavily dependent on, um,meta, TikTok, etc.
And then also on the organicside, large language model
visibility optimization, whichwe've been leading the research
and um charge on, as well astraditional organic search

(01:44:17):
optimization.

SPEAKER_10 (01:44:18):
And to give everyone a bit of background, too, not
only has Brennan been on theshow multiple times, we did a
special marketing episode thatwas truly fantastic, got a lot
of pickup, a lot of interest,and we're actually going to be
doing a three-part series onmarketing in season eight of our
podcast, uh, as part of ourcollaboration with Propelic,
because again, that standaloneepisode was so popular.

(01:44:40):
We wanted to bring and theexpertise that Brennan and the
team have, starting with SEO,then getting into paid media,
and then GEO, which I want totalk to you about as well, since
that's very top of mind foreveryone here at the conference,
and the fact you've moved intocontent and really have become a
full service marketing agencyand a top-tier firm working with
some of the largest travelcompanies in the world.
So um I highly encourage all ofour listeners to go check out

(01:45:03):
that episode, and then alsocheck out your keynotes that
have been on our YouTube channelas well.
Um, tell everyone a little bitabout the team because obviously
you've brought on John Matsonnow, you've got um you know
Shannon doing your sales, you'vegot uh uh Sole or Soledad that
does all the marketing, youknow, um, and one of your SEO
team members are here.
Like you've built a reallyimpressive team.
So tell everyone about thatfirst, because I think that is

(01:45:26):
core to your success.
You are an incredibly smartindividual, savvy entrepreneur,
and a great marketer, and butyou've built, most importantly,
a fantastic team around you.
Tell everyone a bit more aboutthem.

SPEAKER_21 (01:45:38):
Well, I appreciate that.
I think um that's gotta be thehardest part of what I do, what
any entrepreneur does.
I think that um specificallywhen you're in professional
services and you're sellingessentially expertise, um,
you're not selling a product,you're not selling a online
booking, um, there is a lot ofroom for inconsistency and a lot
of room for um falling short ofexpectations.

(01:46:00):
And I have a mentor that likesto say if you look at uh if you
put on a line uh expectations inone place and reality in the
other, the gap between isdisappointment.
So my job is essentially we needto find, recruit, and build a
team and develop a team uh thatcan deliver at the same level
that I would expect if I weredoing it myself, um, which is a

(01:46:20):
fairly, fairly high standard.
Um, and I that is both thehardest thing but also the most
rewarding thing because when wedo that right, the downstream
effects on performance for ourclients, on morale for the team,
even and retention.
I mean, we've not had I thinkwe've had like probably two
people leave leave the companyin the past five years um
voluntarily and just say like Ifound a new job.

(01:46:43):
Um so I'm I'm really proud ofthe culture that we've built and
the people that we have on ourteam.
But yeah, we've added somerecent um some recent senior
leadership as well, as you'recalling out.
Um, of course, there's peoplewho have been here uh for a few
years, have been incrediblyvaluable and important to the
team, Soleil and Shannon, as youmentioned, and then you met
Emily, who's our director ofSEO, and then yes, John, who
comes from um about a decade inthe travel industry, um, has

(01:47:07):
come in to help us with uh uh onthe senior leadership team with
growth.

SPEAKER_10 (01:47:11):
So he's role is uh um he's a CROand he's across all of the
marketing activity and the salesactivity and customer service.

SPEAKER_21 (01:47:20):
So basically it's anything that produces new
business for us.

SPEAKER_11 (01:47:23):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_21 (01:47:24):
So um conference strategy, um, sales, marketing.
It's not gonna be the customerservice side of things, though,
because that would be more soour operations team.

SPEAKER_10 (01:47:32):
Yeah.
And John's great.
I mean, I know John before manypeople in the travel industry
will join John Matson.
So I'm thrilled for him and foryou that you guys have partnered
together and he's come intoPropelic full-time.
It's a fantastic uh addition tothe team, and that's where you
guys have been going fromstrength to strength.
And it's impressive to see notonly in the team, but then also
the clients that you are workingwith as well.
And so tell us a little, and Ithink our audience will find

(01:47:53):
that interesting because youknow, as um uh Brennan and I
worked together many years ago,like the origin story for us
goes back to my time at theTravel Corporation and a brand
within the group called GrandEuropean, where we brought in
Brennan's team that was focusedon SEO and had an outstanding
experience.
Him and I have kept in touchover the years, and as he built
this company, and I've beenbuilding up the Travel Trends

(01:48:14):
Podcast, we have had a uh aparallel uh journey, but both on
exciting trajectories and alsoyou know strong collaborators
and supporters of each other.
So it's like uh so tell telleveryone about some of the the
major partnerships that you'vebeen able to reach.

SPEAKER_21 (01:48:30):
Yeah, so I I um have to be sensitive to the ones that
we're allowed to talk about andthe ones that we're not.
Um unfortunately, all the bigand exciting most of the big and
exciting ones um generally weneed PR approval from their
teams before we can publicizethings.
And a lot of those have becomeour fairly new partnerships that
we're really excited about.
But um, I would say anythingfrom a uh very well-known
mountain travel company to verywell known one of the largest

(01:48:52):
hotel groups, uh hotel umproperty management, I mean
hotel uh loyalty brands in theworld to G Adventures, of
course.
That's a public one where we'retheir global agency of record
for media and organic.
Um and yeah, there's uh 55 otherbrands in there.
So it's I don't even know whereto begin.
I we are we uh of course the bigand exciting names are big and
exciting, but also I uh getincredibly incredible levels of

(01:49:16):
personal fulfillment and rewardfrom working with the companies
that are um on the way therethat are not there yet.

SPEAKER_10 (01:49:22):
And the reason I wanted to ask that question is
because many people listening tothis need a marketing agency and
a partner.
A lot of these travel companiesthat have partnered with
Propelic in the last couple ofyears have actually decided to
move from an in-house team toutilizing an agency.
G Adventures is a good exampleof that because they see huge
benefit of working withPropelic.

(01:49:42):
And that is, as Brendan knowsfrom my background, I've managed
an in house team and I've workedwith agency partners.
And you work with an agencypartner when you can't build out
those teams yourself and havethat expertise, which is
increasingly more complex,especially in the age of AI.
And so before I switch on tothat topic and some of Trends
that you're seeing, Brennan.
But for the companies that arelistening to this to try and

(01:50:03):
figure out wait a second, shouldwe be working with Propelic,
which is you know likely many ofthe people listening to this?
Tell us a little bit about whatis the kind of the ideal client
size for you for how you kind ofShannon and the team are trying
to assess the opportunitybecause clearly there's maybe
many smaller companies out therethat don't necessarily have the
spend level.
So when companies are thinkingabout uh working with Propelic

(01:50:26):
in any of the differentcapacities, uh what would be
your advice to them as far aswhen they should reach out?

SPEAKER_21 (01:50:32):
So I get I'm actually there's one piece of
the company that I still amdeeply involved in, and it's the
second conversation any newpotential customer has with us.
Um after we've had anintroduction, gotten to know a
little bit, I step in and I runa strategy meeting.
It's in that meeting where Idecide yes or no.
I think I've seen the pattern, Iknow how to fix this problem, we
can take this project on and dogood work.

(01:50:52):
Um so for anybody who is on thefence about like, do you have
the ability to meet our our ourissue?
Can you solve our issue,whatever that may be?
We will tell you.
That's first and foremost.
You're not gonna you're notgonna end up down a path where
it's not um where it's not theright fit because I don't want
to I I'm not as worried at allabout whether or not we work
with companies as I am that it'sa successful outcome when we do.

(01:51:14):
So that's number one.
I would say in terms of size orspend levels, I'm not as worried
about that as I am levels or ofmaturity.
Um we look for certain thingslike we want to work with
someone, we cannot be the firstagency.
Um we won't be.
Uh that's not something we'rewilling to do because we have no
benchmark and they have nobenchmark for what good versus
not good looks like.

(01:51:35):
Um and then other things wouldbe uh are there really gaps that
need to be filled?
Is there a tracking deficit?
Is there an attribution issue?
Um, which the answer is yes,99.5% of the time, um, just like
99.9% of germs are killed bymost like hand soaps, you know.
Um but I think that really it'sa stage of maturity in terms of
um what does the marketing teamlook like?

(01:51:56):
Is there a project owner that'snot the person spending the
money?
Lots of different things aroundthose um narratives.
It's very uh it can be it's hardto say with one key.

SPEAKER_10 (01:52:05):
Well, one thing I want to make sure all of our
listeners do know, and you'veprobably heard this throughout
our podcast whenever I'm doing auh ad and a call out for
Propelic, is that they do offera free marketing audit to any of
our travel trends listeners.
So just feel free to referencethat when you reach out.
And this is where I've alwaysencouraged any of our advisory
clients or any uh of my closefriends and associates in the
industry, if they're looking foruh marketing, digital marketing

(01:52:29):
support in any capacity,especially SEO and GEO, but also
paid media, um just to reach outto the Propelic team and ask for
a free marketing audit.
Your team will get a huge amountof benefit from at least having
that had the conversation uhwith Brennan and the team.
So definitely make sure to dothat.
But let's now let's talk aboutsome of the cool stuff you guys
are working on.
Because one of the things thatwe feature in our newsletters,

(01:52:50):
there's always a call out forPropelic every month, but every
quarter we also feature one ofyour reports.
And this is something that youknow you have you have your
blog, you have your own podcast,you guys have been very uh
progressive in your approach tohelp educate the travel industry
about great marketing.
And but you've also been doingreporting, especially with the
utilization of AI, and you werevery early in that.

(01:53:13):
Um, give everyone a bit of anoverview of that report that you
that you ran last year that isstill really valuable and
interesting, and really set thestage for even some of the focus
right numbers of how Google hadchanged.
You were very early inhighlighting that.
You were part of their AI summitearlier this year.
Tell us a little bit about yourwork in GEO and AI optimization
for travel brands.

SPEAKER_21 (01:53:33):
Uh to to um first, just because I'm very proud that
um this is something where Ihave, you know, um personal
fulfillment from educating, andone of my core values is
generosity of knowledge, andthereby it's one of the
companies as well.
Um I we were we were first tomarket on any content AI search
related for travel um because weknow that if we don't pivot,

(01:53:56):
then who's gonna pivot?
Um it's our responsibility tosupport the companies we're
working with.
Um and if nobody is pushing todo that, and I will say that
travel moves fairly slowly, eventravel tech, um, then it then
it's simply just gonna not bedone right, and there's gonna be
winners that have uh that arenot the companies we work with,
and that's not an acceptableoutcome for me.
Um some of the things that we'velooked at are we ran the uh

(01:54:18):
largest statistical analysis ofhow users are researching,
planning, and booking with AIsurfaces.
Specifically, it was AI mode uhthrough a user experience study
that uh got picked up uh uh uhby, you know, you mentioned
focus, right?
Um, travel news.
Uh it was very well received inthe industry, but we found
things like um the distributionof how OTAs are showing up

(01:54:40):
versus direct operators.
We found things like um howimportant that Google business
profile is for a hotel operator,for instance, uh to be their
storefront in the AI modesurface.
Um and then most recently, otherresearch that we've done, um, we
just released a paid mediabenchmarking report based on a
quarter of a billion dollars NATspend that we have in our data
warehouse and uh showed trends,things that we learned along the

(01:55:03):
lines of um not necessarily inthe travel season, but in the
booking seasons on the shoulderseasons of booking.
Um, if you make your investmentsmore significant in those
periods of time, generallyyou're gonna see a much better
bang for your buck than if youmake the investments only in
high tide booking season.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (01:55:20):
Well, and so there's three things there.
There is the AI work that you'vedone, which we could actually
just do uh an entire episode ofthe podcast about, and obviously
we'll likely touch on that whenwe do our three-part marketing
series.
There is the fact that you arelooking at spend across$250
million uh across differenttravel brands, which is
incredibly powerful for anyoneto learn from.

(01:55:41):
And then also the report thatyou did about the Middle East
and how it's uh reshaping traveldemand.

SPEAKER_21 (01:55:46):
Oh yes, that was a that was a race to the finish
line.
Um we really put because thedata warehouse is new, and we
really put that to the test.
Um, and we're able to now query,at least we have the methodology
now to be able to say, like,there's this global event
happening, what's it doing tocustomer acquisition and travel,
which is so exciting.

SPEAKER_10 (01:56:01):
And it's directly connected to the fact that we're
here at Focus Right in Barcelonathe very first day, was the
Middle East conference becausethey couldn't hold it in the
Middle East, so they moved ithere to Barcelona and hosted it
on the Monday.
And a number of people werefascinated and very keen to see
what's happening in the MiddleEast and how significant the
impact it is having on travelcame up at dinner last night
with someone that was flyingback to New Zealand via Toronto

(01:56:22):
and uh not going through Dubai.
Like global flight patterns haveshifted, traveler behavior has
been impacted.
I know tour radars, one of yourclients were both good friends
with Travis, and Egypt has beenimpacted significantly.
And this is where people need toknow when Australians are not
leaving the continent becausethey're afraid that they're not
gonna be able to get backbecause of jet fuel.
These are the things that andit's exactly why we started the

(01:56:45):
Travel Trends Podcast.
So my point of saying this isthat these reports are timely,
they're topical, they'reimportant, um, and I love that
you continue to do them.
So it's not as if you're justdoing them on digital marketing,
you're actually tapping into thetrends that are happening in the
industry.
So uh what's next, Brendan?
For uh for Propelic.
I know you're growing a team,you're growing the number of
clients you have, you're at allthe major conferences, you're

(01:57:07):
building this, you know, the theum um the go-to marketing agency
in the travel industry.
Tell us what's next, what's instore?

SPEAKER_21 (01:57:15):
So, one of the things that I've noticed is we
have this list of services thatum situationally can be very
useful for different brandsdepending on where they are in
their stage of growth.
One of those would beattribution modeling, for
instance, another one would bethe signal engineering piece,
another one would be customerjourney mapping.
And those items historicallyhave only been accessible
through our long-termengagements.

(01:57:37):
Um, we're modularizing them sowe're able to help companies at
their specific point of needwith that issue, even if it's a
one-time project.
And I'm really excited aboutthat because it will just make
things more accessible thatotherwise haven't been
accessible to travel companiesof more scope and more size,
which is exciting for me.

SPEAKER_10 (01:57:54):
Well, let's make sure all of ourlisteners, I mean, propelic.com,
propelic with two L's.
Um if people want to reach outto you directly, Brennan, as a
result of this or connect withJohn and the team, what would be
the best ways for them to dothat?

SPEAKER_21 (01:58:06):
Um I would say through um uh so if it's working
with Propelic, for instance, um,I would go through the Propelic
website and fill out the form onthe contact page.
Um for me, uh feel free to reachout on LinkedIn, Brennan Bliss
spelled with an E or shoot me anemail, Brennan at propelic.com.

SPEAKER_10 (01:58:22):
Thanks again, Brennan, for being here, making
the time for this.
Obviously, it's fantastic to seeyou again.
Thanks for our friendship,thanks for our continued
partnership, wishing you and theteam every success.
And look forward to seeing youagain at the next conference,
which is again coming up soon.
I know you're traveling on fromhere uh to Brisbane for arrival.
So tell people where they uhthey can find you.
And again, thanks again forbeing here.

SPEAKER_21 (01:58:42):
Yeah, absolutely.
So getting a hold of me, itwould be through uh my email,
Brennan at propelic.com, Brennanwith an E, and then um, or
LinkedIn is also good.
Um, and then for the team, ifyou want to look at working with
Propelic, I would do that atpropelic.com.
Click on the contact page.
Um, thanks so much, Stan, forhaving me.
It's always great to talk.

SPEAKER_10 (01:59:01):
Our next guest is the CEO and co-founder of
Welcome Pickups.
It's Alex Tremis, and he and Iwere on a panel together
yesterday, which was reallyfantastic.
It was a round table.
Uh, we had Reno join us as welluh from the federal uh
Switzerland Railways, and thenalso Christiane um from uh
SiteMinder.
So we kind of had the hotelperspective, we had the rail

(01:59:23):
perspective, and veryimportantly, we had Alex's
perspective as we talked aboutground transportation and the
reality of uh how we can improveas an industry the guest
experience when they're welcometo a destination.
It was a really fantasticsession, and uh Alex and the
team kindly asked me to uh tomoderate that panel.
So, first I wanted to start witha thank you, and then also a
welcome uh to Alex, the uh CEOand co-founder of Welcome

(01:59:47):
Pickups.

SPEAKER_16 (01:59:48):
Thank you, Dan.
Uh you you did an amazing job,as always.
Like we had the last paneltogether too, and like uh uh
you're an amazing host.
Thanks for hosting.
And I think it was aninteresting discussion with the
panel, and I'm glad that we aretaking the lead and we're
pushing this discussion in theseconferences uh around ground
transportation, ground arrivalexperience, ground you know, uh

(02:00:12):
what uh we see as an importantpiece missing uh uh of the
travel industry.

SPEAKER_10 (02:00:18):
Totally agree.
And it was fascinating for mebecause as you mentioned, when
we were in San Diego, I had theopportunity to be on the panel,
and then this time you guyskindly asked me uh to moderate,
which was obviously a thrill tobe part of that session because
I like you, but obviously you'rerunning this business, I like
you uh strongly believe there'sa big opportunity to help people

(02:00:39):
better understand how they canimprove the arrival experience,
including making sure that youactually have someone there to
pick you up when you when youarrive on the other end.
So it's uh and I think it's anunrealized opportunity.
Let's so let's actually uh justto bring our audience along, um,
give them an understanding ofwelcome pickups because you have
you just even in the last year,the deal you did with Airbnb was

(02:01:00):
significant.
The number of people that havecommented here, uh, and there
was someone that came up andspoke to us yesterday and who
will be on this podcastrecording as well.
Uh when you came over, he wasjust like, I've been using your
service for the last like uhseveral months.
I love it.
I've I've he was in Tashkentrecently, and he was it came uh
into our session as well.
Anyway, you've got a lot ofraving fans, including staff
here at Focus Right that useWelcome Pickups.

(02:01:20):
So it's really cool to see yoursuccess, the continued progress.
So tell everyone though aboutWelcome Pickups, you know, the
company you created and whereyou guys are based and and what
you guys do.

SPEAKER_16 (02:01:32):
Yeah, the short version of that is that you know
we started a different I starteda different company that
basically wanted you to connectyou with the local side of a
city, right?
And then take you behind thescenes and behind what you uh uh
see normally.
And that didn't work for manyreasons, but then we said, okay,

(02:01:52):
what's something everybody needsand is poor, you know, poorly
served right now?
And it was the the ride from theairport to the hotel, and like
everybody was seeing that as acommoditized thing, as a
necessity, as a logisticsproblem.
And we said, why not turningthat to the first amazing travel

(02:02:14):
experience you're going to have?
You have so many amazing localswho can share their perspective,
they can tell you about yourtheir city, they can like intro
you in the right way, and youknow, you're missing that
opportunity, and you're havingeither a bad taxi ride or you
know, a bad uh you know, uh, andum we're saying, okay, how how

(02:02:35):
can we do it?
And and you know, in thebeginning, when we're more
naive, we started like with withnormal people and we said, okay,
let's have like a person who isplanning to be a diplomat or
like an English teacher or likeuh with their own cars, like
testing things, etc.
But then because of you know thelicensing structure and all
that, we we turned toprofessionals, but we kept that

(02:02:58):
mentality of we really needpeople who are ambassadors and
mayors of their city that knowtheir city, they can tell you
about their city, um, they canhear their stories of the city,
and then it's not just thearrival, right?
Because we see it as the firststep, and if you do a really
good uh first step, as we weresaying yesterday, the hotel will

(02:03:19):
be happy, the guests will behappy, the destination will be
happy, right?
And then the the traveler cankeep on discussing with you, can
keep on the conversation withyou on what else is there to do,
what else are you suggesting,what else can we be doing?
Um so so so that's the mainpremise, right?
So we start from from that firstexperience, we make it super

(02:03:40):
personalized, friendly, easy,um, and we build on top of that.
Um and and the way it works,just just uh uh on simple terms,
like you pre-book, you prepay,you know the driver beforehand,
you can chat chat with thedriver, you have you know locked
the price.
The moment you arrive at thedestination, you meet that
driver uh at the exit gate, youknow, he will take you and like

(02:04:03):
do uh a mini-interveil of thecity, or like you can ask
questions.
Um and the driver would speakEnglish, and and that's
available everywhere, right?
So you don't have to worry.
And another thing we'rediscussing yesterday is like
people are afraid of traveling,and like people haven't been
traveling a lot.
But so for someone, Paris is aweird place.
It's uh foreign place if you'retraveling from uh the US for the

(02:04:25):
first time.
Uh but uh you know, for anexperienced traveler, you know,
Cairo is a is a weird place howeven you know how how many
travels you have done.
Uh so either you're arriving inyou know Buenos Aires, Mexico
City, uh Cairo, Bali, like uhwherever, like you can have that
service.
And it's like this is a greatyou know uh peace of mind to

(02:04:48):
have as a traveler, uh, and itopens your your your desire to
travel to to further out places.

SPEAKER_10 (02:04:54):
Yeah, no, I completely agree.
So there's a number of thingsyou said there that I find are
really interesting.
Obviously, the um the arrivalexperience itself, which can be
dramatically approved for mostguests while traveling, a lot of
tour operators will include thetransfers.
You know, companies likeColette, for example, they have
uh free transfers both ways.
I've always tried to encourageanyone traveling with a guided

(02:05:15):
tour to arrange a transfer.
I mean, many times these guidedtours will have someone that
will pick them up or get thecoach to be ready right away.
But very most often they have toget their way, they have to get
to the hotel.
Like their starting point is thehotel, but they have to get from
the airport to the hotel.
And as you just described, formost uh people it can be
overwhelming, especially whenit's a foreign language or an
unfamiliar place, and they'reconcerned about their safety and

(02:05:36):
well-being.
It's like, why would you everstart your trip without feeling
like there's someone on theother end that's gonna be there
waiting for you?
And what a wonderful uh feelingit is when someone is there
holding a sign with your name onit.
And um, I've always d taken thatopportunity traveling with my uh
young kids.
We arrived in Costa Rica for thefirst time just on our own and
were overwhelmed.
We thought Costa Rica was gonnabe far more developed at the

(02:05:57):
time than it was, and it wasvery all the touts and the
people trying to pull us indifferent directions, and it was
it was a very stressfulexperience.
And I said, I don't ever wantthis again.
I want to make sure that wealways arrive and we're like
that take the stress out ofarrival.
But the other thing you justmentioned is also really
important, is and for those ofyou who are following along and
multitasking, it's welcomepickups.com.

(02:06:19):
And one thing you'll see it'sbeyond transfers, it's
sightseeing rides.
And this is the part that reallyI think there's a huge
opportunity and a huge unlockfor you and the team, is that
once you get to the destination,and I'd mentioned this to Alex
that we had gone to um Cancunearlier this year, and we had
transfers for our family, butthen my wife and I went and did
Chichenica with the samecompany, and so we had a comfort

(02:06:40):
level now with uh who'd pickedus up and was gonna take us back
to the airport, and then on thefinal day, rather than just
going back to the airport, Isaid, actually, can you pick us
up five hours before and do ahalf day and we can go see three
places?
And it was like it made our tripso much better.
And all these other people weresitting around the resort
waiting for their flight forfive or six hours in the lobby
because of just the way that uhthe scheduling is.

(02:07:01):
I was like, we had this greatextra day.
Yeah, and so tell us a littlebit more about those sightseeing
rides and how you're movingbeyond just the transfer.

SPEAKER_16 (02:07:09):
Yeah, the the idea behind that is that as you said,
like, you know, you travel toCancun with your family, you
travel to Barcelona for thisconference, like Dan is not the
same guy, uh, you know, in everytrip he's he's taking.
And at the same time, um uh youknow, your your your trip

(02:07:29):
profile sent us.
And uh it's different when youarrive at 8 a.m.
and you can have a day.
It's different if you'rearriving at 5 p.m.
It's different if you'rearriving at 2 a.m.
Like and and we treat all thesecases in the same way.
Like I'll get a taxi, I'll go tothe hotel, and then you might
not be able to check in, or youmight not be able to find that.

(02:07:51):
So it's it's it's much morecomplex and much more different,
much more personalized what canbe done, and especially in the
era of you know AI and data andall that, like it's it's a pity
to not have thatpersonalization, right?
And and depend on like therandom coach or the bus that
will take you to a destinationand then uh you're you're

(02:08:12):
treated as a herd and like as aas a as a as a as a seat.
Uh so about sightseeing, the thewhole idea is that if I know
that Dan is traveling to Cancunwith his wife and his kids, um,
and I know that he's you knowit's his first time in Cancun,
it's uh you know he's going tostay five days, um he uh is you
know he's interested in historyand this and that, then I can

(02:08:36):
make personal suggestions tothat, right?
So I can start saying, wait, youshould definitely do this food
tour, like that, you know,sightseeing or that restaurant
or that other thing.
So I have the data because Iconnect, I have the airline
data, I have the hotel data.
I I I'm I'm spending about anhour with Dan in the car sharing
what he's going to do.

(02:08:57):
So I can leverage and piggybackon that data and like start
doing uh things for Dan that Danwill appreciate.
And it's like uh on thesightseeing part, you know, if
you if you land in Cancun andyou meet Juan, and then you
know, you build a bond withJuan, and then Juan says, How
about we do this tomorrow?
I really like Juan, let's let'sgo to the Timeter.

(02:09:19):
And then uh uh then Juan says,How about like I pick you up
tomorrow?
Why not?
Like Juan's amazing guy.
So and Juan's becoming your bestbuddy, it's amazing.
You always remember Juan andCancun, right?
So that's the idea.

SPEAKER_10 (02:09:32):
It's so true.
Like that's uh that was exactlyour experience.
And I was like, why don't morepeople travel like this?
It was like it was it was stillthe cost was reasonable, but
everyone, like our kids werehappier, like and it was just
our bags were in the vehicle.
We got to go and like to arestaurant, we had to go
shopping.
We're like, this is fantastic.
We're like, why didn't wediscover this sooner?
Uh and speaking of that, you'vehad this company for nearly 12

(02:09:54):
years.
You're based in Athens, and thescale of the company, like you
guys, when I mentioned you guysare going from strength to
strength, you're in like 374destinations around the world.
You've got more than 1,500 hotelpartners, and um I think you've
had almost 3 million customers.
Like it's just like um so telleveryone where Welcome Pickup is
today and your plans over thenext six to 12 months with how

(02:10:17):
you're gonna continue to growthis business.

SPEAKER_16 (02:10:19):
Uh yeah, I think I think we're entering the third
phase of the company.
Like, you know, the first phasewas you know 2015 and in 2020.
We're like learning uh theroads, you know, product market
fit, growing the company.
Then COVID happened, and we needto step back and like rethink
our operating model and makesure that we're profitable and
grew a lot uh profitably afterthat.

(02:10:41):
Uh and we're still profitableand growing.
And then um now we're enteringthis third phase where we're
trying to push the word out andcreate more brand awareness and
change the brand identity of thecompany to expand outside of the
transfers uh into the arrivalexperience and to the overall
indestination experience, um,and and become that gold

(02:11:03):
standard.
Either you're a traveler andyou're traveling somewhere and
you're thinking, okay, what am Igoing to do about that problem
that welcome picks, uh welcomepickups is in your mind, or your
partner like Airbnb, or like uhuh an airline or like Booking or
like other partners we have, andit's like, okay, who should I
work with on this problem,right?

(02:11:24):
And and this year we'll we'llservice about four million
travelers.
Um and and we're growing nicelylike uh a lot year over year,
and like you know, deals likeAirbnb uh are definitely very
helpful and and and the teamthere is amazing, and we're
doing great things because youknow more and more people
realize the problem and realizeuh that once they implement a
solution like that, it actuallyworks.

(02:11:45):
It actually works.
It's not like another um servicethat you might want, it's
something that you really need.
Uh and especially if we're goingto vacation rental, and it's
like you don't have a frontdesk, you don't have a lobby,
you don't know where you're putyour putting your bags.
Why wouldn't you look for aservice like us?
And like uh the partnership isgoing great with everyone being
very happy about that.

SPEAKER_10 (02:12:06):
No, that's fantastic.
No, I'm so happy for you and theteam.
And as I've gotten to know uhvarious team members at Welcome
Pickups from last year's FocusRight and even preparing for
this one, like you've got areally solid team around you as
well.
So credit to you for building agreat culture of the company.
Um to bring us to where we aretoday in Barcelona as the
conference is in its final day.

(02:12:27):
And as people are listening tothis, we've had a number of
different really interestingconversations with executives
and people come together forthis conference.
I know one of the key reasonsfor you being here is you know
being a part of the round table.
And uh, but what are some of theother reasons that you come to
Focus Right?
Because clearly, to me, I seewelcome pickups like there's so
much opportunity for you here.
But so I'm I'm keen to knowoutside of that session and our

(02:12:49):
recording, you're very active inmeetings and and everything else
going on.
Tell us uh some of the otherhighlights of being here and
what brings you to Focus Right,Euro.

SPEAKER_16 (02:12:57):
Yeah, I I'm a big uh I'm a loyal fan of Focus Right.
Uh over the years, especiallyafter COVID.
Uh I haven't missed like uheither the Europe one or the US
one because I really believeit's a great place to meet
people and potential partners orsee partners.
Um and the sessions are great,but like you know, the the
connections that happen outsideof those sessions uh are even

(02:13:18):
more amazing.
So, you know, we we see FocusRide as the place to go and meet
uh interesting people and andyou know, credit to Pete and the
team uh of of setting up uh agreat conference.
So yeah, I mean uh meeting newpartners is a key for us and
understanding how we can youknow um uh create synergies and

(02:13:41):
grow together with with othercompanies.
I think I think that's the mainYeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_10 (02:13:45):
I mean, I know we'll see each other again in Florida
later this year, and then thenext conference will be uh in
London next year.
And so I see welcome pickups asbeing like a permanent fixture
of of uh focus, right?
Um and hopefully uh also growingthe awareness for ground
transportation because we didhave a uh uh a full house
yesterday and there was a lot ofother sessions we were up

(02:14:06):
against.
And I was impressed in San Diegothat we had a full room of 50
plus people in that instance uhthat were very interesting in
ground transport.
Because when you look at theoptions and people are like
ground transport, what's allthat about?
Like it seems like the lessinteresting, but actually, as we
both agree, it has the mostsignificant potential.
It's the most misunderstood anduh the least so I think the one
thing that was a real highlightfor me from yesterday's session,

(02:14:28):
too, was the number of ideasthat people were coming up with
with how they could actuallybetter improve the guest
experience and all the benefitsto do that.
Um, so to finish along thoselines, I would love to hear
where you think this industry isheaded over the next year until
we you know we see each otheragain in um say Florida in six
months or a year in London.
Um tell us a little bit moreabout what you have planned for

(02:14:48):
Wellcome pickups and also howyou see the industry changing.

SPEAKER_16 (02:14:52):
Yeah, I mean for us for welcome, uh like uh we want
to keep on growing and and keepon adding, you know, um uh
improving the experience.
Like for us, we're not happy.
Like we have a great NPS, youknow, it's plus 83, you know,
great scores, great, great umpublic scores and reviews, but
like we we don't want to stop.
We want to keep on thinking,okay, you know, what else, how

(02:15:15):
else can we improve the service?
And this is you know a very uhimportant uh component of our
next steps and what people needand how we can service uh that
need.
Um and regarding groundtransportation for for us is
like um, you know, before whenwe talked in in uh um uh in the
US and San Diego, there was nouh Airbnb partnership yet.

(02:15:38):
Right.
So um and there was no Expediaand Uber partnership.
There was no like and and I'mvery happy that ground
transportation is becoming uh atopic and it's becoming
something that people aresaying, okay, like why nobody
has ever like really gone deeperin that problem.
It's like why everybody hasaccepted a bad service, accepted

(02:16:00):
that this part of the journeyneeds to be stressful or needs
to be bad, and like, okay, we'llpower through and we'll get to
the hotel, and then the tripwill start.
And so we're always saying, youknow, the trip needs to start
the moment you step on thedestination.
You don't have to like powerthrough to the next step.
And I'm very happy that you knowthese discussions are happening,
and we're not just discussingabout another solution that can

(02:16:23):
bring you know 0.5% on your likemargin or something, and and
we're discussing about somethingthat's truly important for the
traveler, right?
And truly important for theexperience.

SPEAKER_10 (02:16:33):
Yeah, the one other thing that I'm also bullish on
about this category is how loyalpeople are to ground tour ground
transport once they've foundsomeone.
You gave that exp uh that uhgreat example with someone you
meet on holiday, like Juan, andyou have a fantastic week.
But the reality is if you havethat great experience with Juan
by virtue of welcome pickups,all of a sudden welcome pickups
becomes your go-to foreverything.

(02:16:54):
And so hearing a number ofpeople here comment on just how
uh massive fans they are, forme, as you have all those new
partnerships, the reality islike it's obviously a very
exciting time for you to be inthis business because how it's
gonna scale over the next uh fewyears by virtue of the fact that
you're gonna bring in all thesecustomers and they will then
become loyal to the welcomepickups experience.

(02:17:16):
That's like that's gonna betheir default.
Kind of like people like they'lluse the same hairdresser or the
same dentist.
There's certain things when youknow that someone can reliably
get you to the airport or pickyou up from the airport.
Why would you choose someoneelse when you have someone that
you like and you enjoy workingwith and you have um great
experience?
You know, they'll keep comingback.
So is that is that lifetimecustomer value has to be epic

(02:17:36):
focus for you?

SPEAKER_16 (02:17:37):
Yeah, I mean 50% of our business coming direct.
So from people using us againand again, and like we we are
everybody's like, first of all,in our sector, most people go
and like attach themselves toanother brand.
So 90% of their business is B2Bto C.
So they're they're going to apartner, they're often making a

(02:17:58):
commoditized you know productand they're trying to get a
margin out of that, and thatthat's what you see.
But we are, I think, one of thevery, very few ones that have
you know such a big exposure todirect to B2C, and that's you
know a key part of our strategy.
How do I get done in the firstuh trip in with Juan, and then

(02:18:19):
how he comes back and he's happyand he's keep on using welcome.
So so this definitely is onepart, and the other one is uh
that's why I was saying goldstandard for the traveler, but
also for the partner.
How can we make sure that theyou know the next big brand uh
is understanding the problem andis working with us to to solve
that that gap?
Um so yeah, yeah, very happy uhabout the the future of this.

SPEAKER_10 (02:18:45):
Yeah, as you should be.
I mean, you guys have become theground leader and the global
leader in ground transportation,and not only is the scale of the
customers so impressive and thepartnerships, but the idea of
this hassle-free automation thatis actually I think is uh um
still a huge unlock for theindustry.
So I'm I'm I'm bullish on thissector.

(02:19:05):
I'm obviously um very optimisticfor your continued growth.
Obviously, I'm delighted for youand the team.
Um on that note, I want to makesure anyone listening to this
that is like, wait a second, weshould be working with welcome
pickups.
Uh, what would be the best waysfor people to reach out to you
and the team?

SPEAKER_16 (02:19:20):
That's a good question.
Um we have uh an amazing team.
Um I can share the the detailswith you, Dan, and then we can
we can add them in uh in thepodcast these videos.
I mean, uh I'm on LinkedIn, I'mon like I'm not a big Twitter
fan or like I'm not like a bigsocial fan, but like you can

(02:19:41):
find me uh uh on LinkedIn andconnect there and like we can
follow up with all the details.

SPEAKER_10 (02:19:47):
And just for those people who are, most people will
obviously be using uh LinkedIn.
Um it's Alexandros uh Tremis,but obviously you go by Alex.
So um just when you're typingthat in.
But if you type in Alex Tremisand then Welcome Pickups, you
will you will find him yourself.
And um uh obviously welcomepickups.com so people can reach
out to uh your team.

(02:20:07):
But uh yeah, very, very excitedfor you and obviously great to
see you again.
Thanks for uh making the timefor this and have an amazing
rest of 2026, and I look forwardto seeing you again in Florida
in November.

SPEAKER_16 (02:20:19):
Yeah, thanks Dan and thanks again for the panel and
and thanks for hosting me here.
And it's uh amazing to see youagain.

SPEAKER_10 (02:20:28):
Our next guest here live in Barcelona at the Focused
Right conference is JulieCheatham.
She is the CEO of Travelist.
Welcome to the Travel TrendsPodcast.
Julie, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_08 (02:20:38):
Hi, Dan.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_10 (02:20:39):
Of course, I'm very keen to have you on this special
event spotlight episode.
Not only because you're a seniorexecutive in the industry, but
also I want you to explainTravelist to our listeners.
So let's let's start there.
For anyone's not familiar withthe brand and what you guys do,
would you please give us a bitof an overview?

SPEAKER_08 (02:20:54):
Sure, I'd love to.
Travelist was founded back in2019 by Prince Harry, the Duke
of Sussex.
And at the time he got a numberof major travel and technology
brands around the table andasked them, what can we do for
making the world a better placetogether?
So, from a sustainabilityperspective, how can we

(02:21:15):
collaborate?
And that was the genesis ofTravelist.
We're a not-for-profit companythat's a voluntary coalition of
three trillion dollars worth oftravel tech payments, other
companies like your Google'sbooking, skyscan, expedia,
trip.com.
We all get together to work onmaking travel impacts better for

(02:21:37):
people and planet.

SPEAKER_10 (02:21:38):
Well, and just as our listeners, I always want to
make sure as people aremultitasking.
If you're driving in the car, uhwait till you uh wait wait till
you get to your desktop.
It's so it's travelist.org.
So travel list.
I love obviously like catalyst.

SPEAKER_08 (02:21:51):
Yeah, the travel being the catalyst, right?
For good impact.
Love it.

SPEAKER_10 (02:21:54):
Yeah, and so it's a really uh powerful backstory.
Tell everyone about your rolethere, obviously the CEO, but
you're from South Africaoriginally.
Tell tell our listeners how yougot involved with Travelist.

SPEAKER_08 (02:22:04):
Sure.
So uh in 2024, Travelistacquired uh bit of software that
I had been the founding CEO ofpart of the developing team uh
uh called Weaver, and that waswith the intention of having a
data ecosystem that could ungatesustainability data for the

(02:22:24):
world, right?
So, how do we have a globaldatabase of really important
information for travelers,businesses, destinations, and
policymakers?
Um and I got into travel tech alittle bit by accident.
My background actually is infinancial services, where I
spent the first 15 years of mycareer.
And um and now the next almost15 years have been very much on

(02:22:46):
sustainability in the travelindustry, conservation, human
rights in the travel industry.
And it became evident to me theonly way to really scale any
work is to make it digital,right?
Hence the first startup, hencethe journey into travelists.

SPEAKER_10 (02:23:01):
Fantastic.
Well, and so I know this is yourvery first focus right
conference, focus right Europeconference, I should be
specific.
Yes.
Um tell everyone what broughtyou here this year.
What was the uh what was thecatalyst for you coming to the
event uh for travelists?

SPEAKER_08 (02:23:14):
For travelist, uh we're facing into multiple sort
of um, I guess, well, inflectionpoints at the moment.
So traveler demand is changing,technology is changing so fast,
it's so difficult for to keepup, you know, as as an
intermediary of the industry.
Um and uh and we're seeing thatimpact all of our partners, our

(02:23:36):
coalition, what do we work on.
And so Focus Right really seemsthe place to be to find out
who's doing what, who's focusingon what, what's important to the
industry, what's important tothe consumers.
Um, and so I'm here to keep myfinger on the pulse.

SPEAKER_10 (02:23:51):
That's great.
Well, and one of the things thatI always uh talk about on our
podcast is sustainability andand using travel as a force for
good.

SPEAKER_11 (02:23:59):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (02:23:59):
And so clearly, and and um I was born in England, I
have an affinity for uh forPrince Harry myself, and um and
so given the royal family, thebackground, for me, and this is
where when you think about thework that they do, the intention
is to do social good.
And to um and so tell us alittle bit about you know the
organization, where you guys aretoday, some of the the

(02:24:22):
initiatives you're working on.
And I'm hoping too, Julie, thatwe're starting to see more of a
trend of people actuallyembracing companies like
Travelist because ultimately theonly way we're gonna continue to
live on this planet happilytogether and see the planet go
forward is to take better careof it and each other.
So tell us a little bit moreabout your mission and and

(02:24:42):
hopefully some optimistic signsof human behavior.

SPEAKER_08 (02:24:46):
Yeah, so absolutely.
I think that you know, using uhsoft diplomacy through industry
coalitions, through the publicsector and the private sector
working together with perhapssome, you know, ca philanthropic
funding to actually be able toscale and catalyse things.
I think all of these kinds ofpartnerships are just critical
for us to move forward and asyou say, to sort of meet the

(02:25:09):
needs of planet and people,right?
And so the first five years ofTravelist was really focused on
what is the first most helpfulsolution going to be.
And together with our coalitionand Google was a main partner in
this, we launched the travelimpact model, which helps
travelers to understand thecarbon footprint of their
flights.
And so if you are looking for aflight pretty much on any search

(02:25:32):
engine and you see the you knowthe carbon equivalent of your
flight, that is becausetravelist coalition partners
made it happen.
And so that information'sappeared in front of more than
160 billion searches to date.
So I mean that's that's massive,right?
And so if even 4% or 10% oftravelers are making a decision
to take a more sustainableflight that's got a similar

(02:25:54):
route and a similar cost, that'shaving a huge impact in
decarbonization.

SPEAKER_11 (02:25:58):
Right.

SPEAKER_08 (02:25:59):
Um the we're in year two now of our second five-year
journey, and the focus is ondoing the same for rail and for
accommodation.
And so the accommodation MVP hasbeen launched, rail will launch
uh in this next quarter.
And the ultimate goal is reallyto help travelers, destinations,
and policymakers have betterinformation so that they can

(02:26:21):
change, right?
So that we've got someevidence-based planning and
tracking.
Um, we're also very involved inthe policy space, really trying
to be a voice for uh that sortof matches consumer needs, um,
needs of communities, needs ofthe planet, our partners'
voices, suppliers' voices, andthen bring that to the table
where policy is being made andimplemented.

SPEAKER_10 (02:26:44):
Yeah, that's great.
I want to speak a bit more aboutthe industry side, but just for
any of our listeners, travelers,you have um more information,
they can go and find out abouthow to travel more sustainably.
Yeah.
And so I definitely encourageour listeners to check that out
on the website.
When it comes to the industryside, you have some incredible
partnerships.
And you know, Booking.com is oneof them, Amadeus, Expedia,

(02:27:05):
Google, Saber, I mean, all thebig names in travel.
And that's incrediblyencouraging to see.
I guess that when uh industryplayers are looking to
collaborate with you, um what'sthe best way for them to do
that?
How do they reach out?
How do they get connected?
What are, you know, especiallywhen you're advocating, but what
are some of the the ways thatthey actually can partner with
you?

(02:27:25):
What would be some good examplesthat all of our B2B listeners
can wrap their head around?

SPEAKER_08 (02:27:29):
Sure.
So we have different kinds ofpartnerships at Travelist, and
um all of those big names thatyou mentioned are part of our
coalition.
They sit around a coalitioncouncil, we meet regularly, we
try to pool our resources andour our thought leadership to
create solutions for theindustry.
And then we have uh industryspecialist partners that
sometimes could be smaller uhentities that are really

(02:27:52):
passionate about something.
Like one of our partners,Squake, has helped us with a
rail methodology for RailFootprint.
And now we're open sourcing thatand making accessible to
everybody.
Um and so you can be a technicalspecialist or an industry
specialist in just one or twothings, or you can be a big
global OTA or payment platformor um uh CMS or PMS or you know,

(02:28:16):
and the more the merrier.
So whilst we're quite selectiveabout who gets to sit at that
coalition table, there are a lotof gaps.
Uh our big tourism ecosystemhasn't got a representation from
everyone around that table yet.
So please, if you want to joinus, get in touch with me.

SPEAKER_10 (02:28:31):
Definitely.
And I just wanted to highlighttoo I mean, some of the stats
that uh we have been tracking onour podcast around travelers
taking much more interest insustainability.
And booking.com is a goodexample of that.
You know, you can now searchwith filters that will give you
an idea of what properties aregreener.
Um and this is wherepre-pandemic we would see out of

(02:28:51):
uh the top ten reasons thatpeople travel, sustainability
was like eight, nine, or ten.
Like it was like it was a niceto have post-pandemic, given
that time that reset, becausethe things you're focused on
around wildlife and um uh andprotecting uh habitats and and
um the we saw that break intravel uh and the impact when

(02:29:13):
all of a sudden there weren'tplanes in the air, and and so
when travel came back, all of asudden people were more mindful,
especially because and I and Isay that with one caveat, we
also saw everyone rush back toEurope and like southern Italy,
and it was like overcrowded andoverheated.
So everyone also quicklyrealized the limitations of um
the travel industry um going inthe direction that it was
pre-pandemic.

(02:29:33):
So you have a stat that 75% oftravelers want to travel more
sustainably over the next 12months.
I found that really interestingbecause it it stands it it is
very much consistent with whatwe are seeing across the
industry is that travelers, thisis this is table stakes now.
This is essential.
Like that any tra no traveler isgonna choose a company unless

(02:29:54):
they understand that theircommitment towards
sustainability.
So tell us if you wouldn't mindsharing a few more stats along
those lines that will hopefullymake sure that all of our
listeners, from a commercialbusiness point of view, realize
that we need this is not a um acost center, this is actually a
revenue driver.

SPEAKER_08 (02:30:09):
Absolutely.
Well, you know, and the thing isthat sometimes those stats um
can be tricky because you canask someone what they intend to
do and then where they actuallymake their purchase decision,
that intention might not, youknow, follow through, that
intention action gap.
But as you mentioned, thosestats coming out of the
Booking.com recently releasedreport and also Expedia's recent
report do show us that it isincreasingly a um decision that

(02:30:32):
travelers are making.
Booking.com recorded over amillion bednights that have a
third-party verifiedsustainability certification.
So people are actively searchingat least a million bednights
last year for a hotel that hasbeen certified to be doing the
right thing for people andplanet.
Um and it goes even higher thanthat quite quickly when you look

(02:30:55):
at generations.
So we've got uh fantastic infoout of Expedia's latest report
that says Gen Z and millennialtravelers are over 90%
indicating that they will travelout of season on the fringe to
lesser visited destinations, andalso that they will consider
social and environmental impactchoices when they're traveling.

(02:31:16):
Over 90%.
So that action and intention gapis closing with the younger
generations of travelers.

SPEAKER_10 (02:31:23):
Fascinating.
And one thing I know you've justrecently published too is your
travelist annual uh uh reportfor 2026, which is only a fresh
of the last uh couple of months.
I had downloaded this and I washaving a look through, and I
would just, if you wouldn't mindalong the same lines, sharing a
few of those observations thatand I this is where for our
listeners, some kind of valuablenuggets of information around um

(02:31:45):
what you're what you're seeingwhen you put those reports
together.

SPEAKER_08 (02:31:48):
So actually that was so that was last year's report,
and this year's report is comingout next week.

SPEAKER_10 (02:31:54):
Oh my goodness, I was seeing March 17th.
I was like, I thought there wasone from uh in March 2026.

SPEAKER_08 (02:31:59):
So no, so you'll see you'll see, so the 2025 uh
impact report will be releasednext week at London Climate
Action Week.

SPEAKER_11 (02:32:07):
Okay.

SPEAKER_08 (02:32:07):
And then you'll see all the most um up-to-date
trends and analytics and andthoughts.
But uh some of the things thatwe're seeing there are some of
the demand uh bits that we'vejust discussed coming out of
booking, um, Amadeus's report,Sixpedia's report.
Um, and that's also why thecertifications initiative is so
important, because right nowwe're seeing increased

(02:32:28):
regulations on consumercommunication.
And so what we can currentlylegally and compliantly put in
front of a traveler is limited,right?
It has to be audited by a thirdparty, and this is with the
incoming EU regulations forempowering consumers with a
green transition.
And so these certifications andthese labels become so important

(02:32:50):
to communicate to travelers,whether it's a flight emissions
label or uh a sustainablecertification label.
Um, and then AI is reallystarting to guide decision
making in travelers.
We're seeing that.
Um we've seen an increase intravelers booking their travel
using AI from 47% in 2024 to 54%in 2025.

(02:33:12):
But we know that up to 90% oftravelers are using AI and large
language models to actually plantheir trip, research their trip,
even if they're not bookingnecessarily on those platforms.
And that gap is just gonnanarrow, right?

SPEAKER_11 (02:33:25):
For sure.

SPEAKER_08 (02:33:26):
And then the other thing that we're seeing is that
expectations are rising.
So um when you spoke earlierabout data being the new
currency, I think we're we'revery quickly seeing the death of
estimation.
There's so much information, andtechnology is so powerful that
we're closing the gap veryquickly between um saying things

(02:33:47):
that can't be proved or haveevidence bases.
Um, often referred to as thegodfather of sustainability,
John Elkington recently said theera of soft sustainability is
over.
And how I interpret that.
Is you know, we often have gotthese two streams of comms.
Like, what do we say to ourcustomers, our travelers?
And that's very marketing fuzzy,perhaps not as fact-based.

(02:34:10):
Um, and then we have thesecorporate reporting, ESG,
financial standard disclosuresthat are very different and it's
far more onerous.
And thanks to technology andinformation availability, I see
those converging really quicklynow.
I don't think you'll have twodifferent sets of data and
analytics within the next fiveyears.
It'll be one and the same and itwill be regulated and it will be

(02:34:33):
transparent.

SPEAKER_10 (02:34:33):
Yeah, that's exciting.
That's and very encouraging.
And that this conversation hasmade me much more optimistic
about the future.
Because one of the things thatcomes up when uh talking about
AI that uh is how muchenvironmental impact it has by
virtue of the power that'sneeded um to run all those data
centers.
And there's you know, there's aa huge what right now would be a

(02:34:55):
hidden cost and a societalimpact of building all these
data centers.
And these are the things we'regonna be grappling with over the
next few years.
So we're seeing all thisexcitement around the
technology, um, but it's gonnahave significant ramifications
in our work life and obviouslyin uh uh for the environment.
And so uh that's one thing Iwould love to see travelists
continue to lead the charge onto be able to have those

(02:35:16):
conversations around yes, AI cando a lot of good, but we also
need to be mindful of thenegative impacts and what it
means for the travel industry.
So um uh I'd love to have youback on the podcast at some
point and you know to continueto explore that and potentially
even our our summit later thisyear where we're talking about
beyond AI and the idea being,you know, what role do humans
have what's what is the reallythe essential role of humans in

(02:35:38):
travel?
And ultimately I'm I'm veryencouraged because human
connection is what we're allseeking from uh from our travel
experiences.
And so um, so I I I get Idefinitely want to be measured
in our approach of AI.
So uh I'd love to get your lasttake on that, and maybe if you
can share with our listeners uhalso the ways beyond the website
to connect with you, to learnmore about travelists and and uh

(02:36:00):
a ways to connect with the team.

SPEAKER_08 (02:36:02):
Sure.
So you're absolutely right.
AI can be so powerful, and evenwith our um OTA partners right
now, we're seeing how they'rebusy using smart technology to
disperse um unbalanced tourism,right?
Sending tourists on fringeseasons or sending them to the
second or third most popular umvisiting spots in a destination

(02:36:22):
to try and better balance thattourism, make it a better
experience for travellers andcommunities.
And we can do that in real timeto say, go to this particular uh
experience later this afternoon,it's not as crowded as this
morning.
So the potential is endless,right?
But what are the guardrails,what are our responsibilities?
Um we know that, for example,areas around a data center, for

(02:36:43):
up to 10 kilometers radiusaround a data center, the ground
temperatures can rise up to twodegrees Celsius.
So, I mean, that's significant,let alone the water and um the
energy consumption.
And we have a responsibility asan industry to work on that.
We're in a unique position as acoalition to approach this as a
team of partners because no oneorganization or or industry body

(02:37:07):
or government can solve this ontheir own, right?
And that's what makes makesTravelist exciting, is that we
try to work on these thesethings together.
Um we've actually recentlylaunched an internal partner
working group on AI.
So watch this space.
I'll be able to tell you morewhen we talk next.

SPEAKER_10 (02:37:22):
Awesome.
I look forward to it.
Yeah, and let's make sure I'mdefinitely gonna follow your
journey and look forward tospeaking again.
And let's make sure that all ofour listeners can do the same.

SPEAKER_08 (02:37:31):
Thanks.
Uh well, there's um the uhinformation at travelist.org
email address, which you can geton our website.
But please feel free to contactme directly if you'd like to go
look into partnership with us.
That's uh julie.cheatum attravelist.org.
That's T-R-A-V-A-L-I-Y-S-T.

SPEAKER_10 (02:37:50):
Awesome.
And I'll make sure it's in theshow notes as well.
But I um I'm sure a number ofpeople will reach out to you
because this is where I feellike you know there's still a
lot of strategic advantage fortravel companies to embrace this
in the right way to make ameaningful difference, but also
to uh to integrate it in a waythat their customers will see
that they truly are committed tothis.
And um, so yeah, I I'm uh it's areal honor to meet you finally.

(02:38:14):
I've uh been very uh impressedwith your work and obviously
will continue to uh support andstay in touch.
But Julie, a real pleasure tomeet you.
Thanks so much for joining usfor this.

SPEAKER_08 (02:38:23):
Thanks so much for having me, and uh yeah, it's
been a great pleasure to havethe chat.

SPEAKER_10 (02:38:29):
Our next guest is the chief product officer at
Rail Europe.
Rail Europe has been on ourpodcast a number of times.
Bjorn Bender.
We did a fantastic uh sessionwith him in last season.
We did a special focus on Rail,uh, our partnership with
Railbookers and Frank Marini.
I love talking about Rail.
I love this uh side of theindustry.

(02:38:50):
So it's fantastic now to have asit down with Seb Herbranda, the
Chief Product Officer of RailEurope.
Seb, great to have you on theTravel Trends Podcast.
Great to be here, Dan.
Really looking forward to it.
Tell us about your role, chiefproduct officer.
That's got to be a pretty coolgig.

SPEAKER_15 (02:39:04):
It is a pretty cool gig.
It's also a very challenginggig, but that's uh that's what
we're here for, right?
And um, yeah, it's it's bringinguh something extremely complex
on the back end because we'reworking directly with uh about
250 real providers and unlockingthat content to our clients and
undoing that for both B2C andB2B is uh is what we're in for.

SPEAKER_10 (02:39:25):
Fantastic.
And this is your first focusright conference?

SPEAKER_15 (02:39:28):
It is definitely my first focus right conference,
and it's been um it's beengreat.
I come from fintech, which is alet a lot less personal, so it's
really cool to see that personalrelations still really, really
matter, and um yeah, travel isjust uh a fun industry to be in
for sure.

SPEAKER_10 (02:39:43):
Totally, yeah.
And let's make sure all any ofour listeners that are not
familiar with Rail Europe, ifthey haven't heard Bjorn on the
podcast before, I think mostpeople think of Rail Europe,
they think of the uh Rail Europepast that they can get, but tell
everyone about Rail Europebecause in the episode that I
encourage people to listen to,uh, I was fascinated to get the
backstory of Rail Europe.
The fact that the company wasactually created in New York

(02:40:03):
City in the 1930s.
That was like uh I uh it was somany fascinating things I
learned about the business andthe brand, and then where you
guys are today in terms ofscale.
Uh, give everyone a briefoverview of Rail Europe.

SPEAKER_15 (02:40:14):
Yeah, sure.
It's it's definitely for me achange uh being in a company
that's almost 100 years old, soreally coming from uh that
historic kind of uh trainindustry, uh which of course is
200 years old, and what we'redoing is unlocking the content,
unlocking the real journeys forusers, mainly overseas, so
international travelers, uhleisure travelers coming to

(02:40:36):
Europe that really want toexperience Europe, in my view,
in the best way, and we unlockthat content for them.
So it is really about peoplethat are unfamiliar with the
European uh real system,unfamiliar with the different
carriers, unfamiliar with howtrain travel actually goes, and
we unlock that um those journeysfor them, and we do that uh
directly for our end users, soon our consumer platform, but

(02:40:59):
also through our API and our B2Bplatform for agents all over the
world.
We have about uh 25,000 agentsconnected all over the world
that enable their travelers,whether they're in Australia, in
India, in China, in the US, inLatem, to travel through Europe
in um in the best way and reallyhave that experience outside of
the big travel hubs, outside ofthe big airports, and and and

(02:41:20):
see see the continent for whatit is.

SPEAKER_10 (02:41:22):
Yeah, no, it's an amazing company, great business,
and obviously, one of the thingsthat you guys work with, as you
highlighted, is all the B2Bpartners.
You're growing in B2C and B2B,but B2B has been a huge growth
for Rail Europe.
Um, tell us a little bit moreabout your role as the chief
product officer, and that's whyI say it's a cool gig because I
love uh when you get to enhancethe product experience for
guests.
I know I love that side of thebusiness.

(02:41:43):
So tell everyone a little bitmore about what you're focusing
on and what are some of the newprojects and enhancements that
you are that you and the teamare bringing.

SPEAKER_15 (02:41:51):
Yeah, so for us, it is um if we look at so B2B and
B2C are very, very different inthat sense uh because obviously
B2C we can directly talk to theend customer, and I always um
highlight with our teams thereis a C in every B2B.
For us, we focus on leisuretravelers, and there is a C at
the end of the chain, right?
There's always an end customer,always a traveler at the end of

(02:42:13):
the chain.
So we focus on bringing thosejourneys, those experiences to
these end users.
And um, if we look at the B2Bspace, there's two things that
are super important for us, andthat is making real content
sellable and making it operable.
Because the the biggest problemthat our uh B2B partners have is
that real is scary, real iscomplex, real is just uh a level

(02:42:36):
up from what they're used tosell, but customers want it.
Like we see so many customersthat really ask for um real
journeys in Europe, so ouragents all over the world are
really required to sell that.
And yeah, we we bring thoseexperiences to life, and and
it's it's not about I want to gofrom uh we're today in
Barcelona, I want to go fromBarcelona to Madrid.

(02:42:57):
It is about I want to experienceFrance, I want to experience uh
Italy, or both of them, and howdo I make that experience rich?
So it's it's not so much, andespecially now in the age of AI,
not so much just unlocking thecontent, uh integrating APIs and
the technical stuff, it is thatlayer on top of that.
Like, how do you create peace ofmind on something that people
are unfamiliar with?

SPEAKER_10 (02:43:18):
Well, let's talk about AI for a moment because
obviously that has to besomething that the executive
team, the investors are askinghow you're utilizing AI,
customer expectations areincreasing.
So, as the chief productofficer, how are you looking to
incorporate AI?
What are some of the use casesalready?
And I'm not talking about thehype of AI, I'm talking about
like the real valuable use casesthat you're seeing and how

(02:43:38):
you're incorporating thattechnology.

SPEAKER_15 (02:43:40):
Yeah, so for us, it there's there's a few few sides
to it, right?
Like there's obviously the theefficiency side uh of AI that
just allows us to do more.
Like we can move faster, we cando better by using AI for
especially, of course, on theengineering side, uh, internal
tooling, and and it just allowsus to do more and do better.
Um, it also obviously creates awhole different context for

(02:44:02):
intermediaries, and ultimatelywe are an intermediary, where
again unlocking the contentbecomes commoditized because we
have uh 250 carriers integrated,and that will become that took
years, then it would now ittakes months, and over over time
it hopefully takes weeks.
So we need to move up as anintermediary into that value

(02:44:23):
chain.
So we are unlocking new toolsfor our um B2B agents and
ultimately also for our B2Cclients of how do we create
journeys, how do we mixdifferent providers into one
single journey, and that'sthat's where the AI capabilities
actually become veryinteresting, so that we can not
get distracted anymore by theboring stuff, just integrating

(02:44:43):
data and and um making datareadable, but actually these
layers on top of it.
So I'm really excited, butthere's a big but at the moment
because we don't know where it'sheading, right?
So, from a product point ofview, we are a lot more in a
phase where intuition, productsense, uh customer feeling is
much more important than purereading the data because the

(02:45:05):
world changes in two months'time, uh, technology changes in
two months' time.
So, product craft, I think, andand I hope, of course, um yeah,
working in product, I I need tosay this, but I think product
management and and productsense, product understanding
only will get more and moreimportant uh because uh we live
in an age of uncertainty,macroeconomics, everything

(02:45:25):
happening around us, but alsobecause of the age of AI, um
it's it really comes down tohaving a good product sense.

SPEAKER_10 (02:45:31):
It's really interesting to get your take on
AI because that's always one ofthe topics that comes out not
only in our podcast, but in anevent like this.
And I hear a lot of people sayevery session was about AI.
And so I'm sure you've heardother utilizations of AI over
the course of uh the last coupleof days.
I was also keen to get your takeon, you know, given this is your
first time at a focus rightconference, I'd love to get your

(02:45:53):
perspective.
You know, we're having thisconversation on day two.
We got a chance to speaktogether yesterday.
But what are some have been yourobservations and insights from
being here at the conference?

SPEAKER_15 (02:46:02):
Um it's been fairly reassuring uh because I think we
all uh in this age ofuncertainty and unclarity, um,
I've heard multiple times peoplesaying if you're not worried, if
you're not anxious right now, umyou're doing you're doing
something wrong or you're you'rehiding in in the corner.
And I think that's reassuring ina way that everyone is living
through this big change and thisbig transition.

(02:46:23):
So distribution is changing,user behavior is changing, the
markets are changing, and weneed to act on that.
And and so it's reassuring toconnect to other companies in
the field and and really uhunderstand what's what's
happening.
On the other hand, I was alsosaying to someone last night, I
do think we will look back inmaybe even five years, ten
years, maybe two years' time,and think back of these

(02:46:46):
conversations that we had andthink how ridiculous it was, how
we talked about uh AI, how wetalked about some of these
trends that are happening,because it's it's it's like the
start of the internet, right?
Like you were talking um uh anddreaming about how the world
could look, and and everythingwill change in in a couple of
months' time.
So, I also think um, in a way,we are we are the people in the

(02:47:07):
industry, right?
And many of us uh have been inthis industry for very long, and
there will be there are thingshappening right now that are
completely under our radar andthat we will be completely blown
away by, and and that's gonna bepersonally very fun.
Um, probably if you're um aninvestor shareholder, it's it's
probably less uh less fun.
But as on a as a personalperson, I really enjoy this

(02:47:30):
phase of uncertainty, uhcraziness, uh, and and new
things happening every day.

SPEAKER_10 (02:47:34):
Well, it's true.
The number of people I've spokento, even a few industry players
that have come back into travelwith the advancement of AI.
There was a gentleman I wasspeaking to at dinner the first
night that uh had retired at 40and he's been retired for 10
years, and now with AI, he'scome back and started a new
travel AI company.
And the overall enthusiasm fortechnology, you know, we haven't

(02:47:56):
seen this since the dot-com era,that's for sure.
And so um the fact you know thatyour role working for a large uh
travel brand to utilize thistechnology, yes, and for sure,
it's changing.
We did our first AI summit in24, second one in 25, and the
theme for this year in 26 andOctober is beyond AI.
How do we look at how it's justincorporated into the

(02:48:17):
experience?
And what is the human role?
And so that's quite a questionthat I've been keen to ask you.
I've asked uh two people on thispodcast about where humans are
still relevant in the age of AI.
And I'd love to get your take onthat.

SPEAKER_15 (02:48:31):
Well, again, it's it's predicting a future that we
don't know, but I think a lotof, and that's also something to
your previous questions a lot ofthe conversations haven't
actually changed.
So when you talk to people andsome of the challenges that the
industry is dealing with, theyare still the same and they will
remain the same, and AI is notsuddenly gonna solve it, right?
And I think travel is a humanexperience.

(02:48:54):
I do hope that this will elevatethe human experience, unlock um
getting access to personalopinions, more curated journeys,
and and and real tailoredexperiences that AI can unlock
as an enabler.
The worry that I have sometimesis that you there are two
scenarios that because of umdemocratizing technology,

(02:49:15):
everyone has access, and it's abit at the start of the
internet, like everyone can bean entrepreneur and everyone can
be part of the game.
On the other hand, data,first-party data is the absolute
key in success.
So there is a scenario whereit's only gonna be more
consolidated, a smaller marketwhere only a few big players
remain.
And I do hope that that's notnecessarily the case, and that a

(02:49:36):
new innovation will actuallyunlock some of those uh
opportunities for um smallerentrepreneurs, smaller companies
to to really drive uh driveinnovation as well.
But the human experience, Idon't think that's that that's
going to change.
We what we can do now is behuman on on scale, and and
actually you can connect withpeople that are very much like

(02:49:57):
you or or enjoy the similarexperience like you on the other
side of the world.
And and I think informationavailability and unlocking
information should be make thateasier.
And and human experiences arestill um uh are still the key, I
think, in travel, of course.

SPEAKER_10 (02:50:12):
Yeah, and I I that that's something I'm very uh
optimistic about is the factthat it does come back to human
connection and the and why wetravel, and we don't travel for
technology.
Tech technology can make travelexperience much more efficient,
and uh that whole idea of likeseamless and take out friction,
all things that will actuallyenhance the traveler experience.

(02:50:34):
But at the end of the day,humans will still they will get
on planes, they will, they will,um, and they are keen to see all
these amazing places around theworld.
And a big part of that is thecultural and human connection.
So that is the beauty of gettingon a train in Europe, and it's
the people that you meet on thetrain and the people that you
meet at your hotel, and and so II'm very excited for the future

(02:50:56):
of the travel industry in theface of AI, and a lot of people
have been on our podcast saythat it's you know the best
thing that's ever happened totravel industries, and it's
gonna be interesting to see howit plays out.
If if you were you know lookingforward to focus right next year
in London, um, what do you thinkfrom the conversations you've
heard here, what do you think isone of the themes that will
likely carry over uh to nextyear?

(02:51:18):
Clearly, AI, agentic AI will beone of them, but what are some
of the things you think we'll betalking about a year from now?

SPEAKER_15 (02:51:24):
Yes, but I do hope that the AI conversation has
matured in a sense of um now thequestions have been, but how do
you apply agentic?
What's the the the effect gonnabe of agentic AI?
And I think those questions areare fairly silly because it's
that's that's a component of atechnology that enables
something and it can yeah, itcan run processes fairly

(02:51:47):
independently, that's great, butwe need to start asking those,
and I hope that next yearthere's there's more maturity in
in AI that we will have we willsee real proof and not get
beyond all the confusion andalready see starting, seeing
proof of um what it actually canenable us to do and how it
actually can then enrich theseuh these travel experiences
because that's that's ultimatelywhat we're here for, and it's

(02:52:09):
exciting to see that everyone isstill in that confused phase.
But obviously, you see that nowwe get to an adoption where it's
not about because that was lastyear and maybe the year before,
where people were like, You useAI already in your company, how
do you use it?
And now it's everyone in someshape or form uses it.
If not, they're they're veryworried, and now it's around

(02:52:30):
real applications, real usefulproof points that we can
actually build travelexperiences for our users.

SPEAKER_10 (02:52:36):
That's fantastic.
Well, obviously, I think uhBjorn has done a great job
bringing you into the companyand building out his executive
team, and so it's fascinating wehave this conversation with you
and get your take.
Uh, I'm keen to make sure ourlisteners can also connect with
you if they have questions andobviously uh learn more about
Rail Re Rail Europe.
Uh so on that note, Seb, whatwould be the best ways for
people to reach out and connectwith you and and uh and also the

(02:52:57):
Rail Europe team?

SPEAKER_15 (02:52:58):
Yeah, so definitely uh we always want to get closer
to our users, we always want tounderstand because that's in the
end uh what product is stillabout is really understanding.
And AI cannot solve that.
How users experience yourproduct, what users like, what
users don't like.
So uh please connect with me onLinkedIn and always happy to
talk about what is happening inthe travel industry in real and
uh just connect on uh on what'sgoing on.

(02:53:20):
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (02:53:20):
Seba is great to meet you.
Good luck with the rest of theconference, and I look forward
to keeping in touch.
It's been a real pleasure, Dan.
Our next guest is the CEO andco-founder of one of the hottest
global AI startups.
He started out of San Francisco.
Uh him and the team are it'sbeen extraordinary for us to
work with at Travel Trends.
And I'm of course speaking aboutAndy Moss from Mind Trip.

(02:53:44):
And I'm delighted that he ishere in Europe.
We've connected at many otherconferences, and uh he's been on
our podcast before, but this ishis first time here at the
European conference for FocusRight.
And I'm delighted to have thisopportunity to sit down with
him.
Andy, great to have you onTravel Trends again.

SPEAKER_19 (02:54:00):
It's great to be here.
And uh I am British originally.
I have lived in California forover 30 years, so uh that's uh
but but yeah, Europe is cominghome for me.

SPEAKER_10 (02:54:07):
It was the funniest thing.
So we had dinner together lastnight uh with our friend uh
Mauricio Preto, who runs theTravel Tech Essentialist, my
favorite uh newsletter in thetravel industry.
I definitely encourage anyone touh subscribe to that.
And Andy uh joined us for dinneras well, and one of the things
that really made uh the entiretable laugh is that everyone was
trying to place his accent, andhe's from Southampton in

(02:54:29):
England.
I'm from Portsmouth, very close.
Um, he still has uh the remnantsof his lovely English accent,
but he's been living in SanFrancisco for 30 years, and he
said um basically that kind ofthat combination gives you an
Australian accent becauseeveryone was convinced you're
Australian.
And uh some people havecommented you sound like Elon
Musk, you sound like is ityou're South African, but no,
you're English American.

SPEAKER_19 (02:54:49):
I'm I I'm also not doing quite as well as Elon is
this week.

SPEAKER_10 (02:54:53):
But you have it's funny, and that's there's the
self-deprecating humor.
Even when Andy introducedhimself last night, I was
telling the people afterwardsthis is a guy that's had a
serial entrepreneur who's hadmajor success, uh uh a few big
exits, like you, and then you'vedecided to get into the travel
industry, and I'm delighted thatyou did because you took this
incredible founding team thatyou've worked with, Michelle,

(02:55:15):
who you know I have the greatestaffinity for, your CMO.
Um, but you took your team andbrought them over to travel.
So let's give everyone a bit ofbackground on Mind Trip.
Tell us a little bit about thecompany, why you created it, and
what you guys do.

SPEAKER_19 (02:55:29):
Sure.
So uh the company is almostexactly three years old.
Uh the product's been in marketuh about two years now.
Uh and you know, we're a teamthat's worked together not just
uh on a previous company, butacross four or five different
startups over the last 20 yearsin different combinations.
But uh, I mean we really wantedto you know do something in AI.
Uh to be honest, we started withAI instead of travel.

(02:55:51):
Uh and this was actually beforeChat GPT uh actually hit.
We were brainstorming what wewere gonna do in AI, and um, you
know.
When ChatGP did arrive, we werein the middle of that process
and it was very easy to lock inon travel as the best use case
for AI.
If you think about otherindustries, it's very quick to

(02:56:12):
get into a checkout experienceor other things.
Travel is just very multifacetedand pretty complicated, and it's
perfect for the AI use case.

SPEAKER_10 (02:56:19):
Well, one of the things that's really
interesting, and I'll um there'sthere's so much to this story,
uh, but I will just add uh aquick point here because um this
is where Andy is so um, ifanything, like I was I'm
obviously a huge fan of MindTrip.
Clearly, you are, you'veinvested in it, you've built it,
and you've you know you're fullyvested in this this venture.
Um but as they built out thistrip planner, which you know,

(02:56:42):
Rod Cuthbert, who's here atViator, and you had a privilege
to meet him, he was always theone, he was always the Simon
Cowell of the judging.
When anyone came up with atravel planning tool, you would
instantly say, No, not investingin it.
There's a graveyard of travelplanning tools.
But what's amazing about theMind Trip story is it started as
a trip planning tool, still is,but you guys expanded, you know,
you started as B2C, you expandedto B2B, started working with all

(02:57:05):
of these destination marketingorganizations, and we did a
three-part series with Mind Tripthat I definitely encourage our
listeners to check out becauseyou can see how valuable the
technology is that they'vecreated for DMOs.
So many of them, more than 100,is it right, Andy?
Across the US and the Caribbean,and now you're expanding to
Europe, have utilized theirtechnology and added these
widgets to their website to helppeople plan travels to these

(02:57:27):
different regions.
But then now you guys have takena step forward and actually
introduced agenc booking intothe platform.
And so this is a really excitingfor uh time for Mind Trip.
I know you guys have continuedto scale uh investors and and
and your profile in the industryhas continued to raise.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhere you guys are today.

SPEAKER_19 (02:57:44):
Yeah, so I mean, first, uh, you know, a couple of
things you sort of mentioned.
Uh I mean, I think for us thevision was always how do you
build a personal travelassistant?
And you know when we started toget into travel, you know,
people actually advised us tofocus on you know one niche and
you know, not sort of go broad.
But our philosophy from thebeginning was you need all the

(02:58:05):
touch points that you have witha traveler.
You know, if you had a reallygood travel agent or an
executive assistant that washelping you, you'd expect them
to help you from everything frominspiration and planning through
to booking, um, you know,through to you know what is
actually happening when you'reon the trip as well.
So, you know, the idea of aconnected trip with the consumer
at the center and everythingyou're really supporting you

(02:58:28):
from a personal assistantperspective, that really has
been the vision from thebeginning, and you know, that's
where we've continued.
Uh, it just turns out that thatum opportunity is also very
helpful for uh B2B partners aswell.
Uh and we started our uhdestination DMO business uh just
over a year ago.
Um and again, you know, Idescribe it as more than a

(02:58:50):
widget.
Um it's a pretty you know deeplyembedded solution um you know
that a DMO can actually activatevery quickly on their site that
gives them full conversationalAI, it gives them visibility to
the types of chats that um yourconsumers are asking for.
That is extremely helpful for uhunderstanding GEO as well, which

(02:59:10):
is on everybody's minds.
Uh so you know, those are thesort you know two uh two sort of
uh follow-ons to you know justthe description of what we do.

SPEAKER_10 (02:59:18):
Yeah, I actually that's a really important point
you mentioned about GEO.
The um opportunity to work withMind Trip like these DMOs have
with all of their content.
Like uh a good example is VisitCalifornia.
There's like more than twomillion pieces of content and
the way that they now canorganize it and structure it a
way that they can get indexedproperly.
So you're not only offering thema tool, you're also offering
them kind of a gateway to makesure they're relevant as uh

(02:59:40):
travelers shift their uh searchpatterns from traditional Google
search that you've obviouslyknown for many years in that
customer journey, to uh using AIplanning tools and specifically
Mind Trip.
And so, you know, as we're hereat a Focus Right conference, um,
one of the keen things I'm keento get your take on is you know
what brings you here and andsome of the benefits.
One thing I just wanted tohighlight before is that, and

(03:00:02):
this is where when I'm veryemphatic about uh Mind Trip, the
business and the potential isyou know you just look at Mike
Coletta's presentation aroundtrip planning that he shared at
the conference in New Yorkearlier this year.
And I was talking to him aboutit here, which in over the last
three quarters, AI planning uhhas gone from 30% to 40% to 56%,

(03:00:24):
um, and now it's exceeding howmany people are using Google
search.
Um, and there's a realopportunity now to move into
agentic booking um that hasn'tuh shown up in the numbers yet,
but I know that's where you'refocusing.
But you've got so manyopportunities to grow this
business on the B2B side withDMOs, and then obviously, you
know, you guys could certainlybe the ones that when the dam

(03:00:45):
breaks on agentic bookings.
Um so tell us a little bit aboutyou know, as I set the stage
there, Andy, what brings you toFocus Right Europe?

SPEAKER_19 (03:00:53):
Yeah, so that there's two key points to sort
of follow up on there.
I think the first one is why amI in Europe?
The main reason I'm in Europe isum we're actually uh launching
UR destination business with ourfirst European uh DMO partners.
So you know, we're open forbusiness in Europe.
We have you know the data centerand your first couple of
customers uh you know uhestablished.

(03:01:15):
You know, we're working withMadeira and the Norway travel
custom uh cluster um as thefirst two, uh, but many more to
come.
So I've been meeting your DMOs,I've been presenting at
conferences, you know, we'rejust starting to hire the team
in Europe.
Um so you know that's the sortof first one.
Uh the sort of second thing youwere you're leaning into was the
agentic side of things.
Um, you know, less why I'm inEurope, but you know, we are

(03:01:38):
indeed going super deep oneverything agentic.
Uh we launched a majorpartnership and product with
Sabre and PayPal uh about sixweeks ago uh that coincided with
us launching Mindtrip.aiflights, uh so Mindtrip flights.
Uh and that I think is the thesort of most fully end-to-end

(03:02:00):
example of somebody being ableto use your mind trip and an LLM
to you know really understandpretty complex flight um needs
uh and then go all the way fromthat all the way through your
pricing and availability throughto checkout and actually booking
the trip.
So um you'll go go check outmind trip flights.
We have mind trip stays comingreally soon, which is a very
similar product for hotels.

SPEAKER_10 (03:02:22):
And that's where you say likethere's a there's the two paths
there, but then there's actuallythere's two reasons you're
actually here, I shouldhighlight as well, because your
wife is here and your daughter'shere, and you guys have been
traveling around Spain.
And I was so happy for youbecause ultimately this is one
of the things that I think for,and I'm highlighting this
because for anyone that'sworking in this industry and
loves travel, it always has tobe the reminder of why we do

(03:02:44):
what we do and why we work inthis industry.
And so when we were en route todinner last night, I was asking
Andy all about his travelsaround Spain.
You were telling me all thehighlights about uh the Alhambra
and how uh Sevilla was such abig highlight, and you've just
been in Valencia.
Um uh tell everyone uh a littlebit, share a couple of
highlights from your tripbecause again, uh, this is why
this is why we do what we do.

SPEAKER_19 (03:03:05):
Yeah, I know totally.
Um, so I mean this was just agreat opportunity with these two
conferences.
Um, and my daughter has justliterally uh uh graduated from
college.
Um, you know, uh she actuallywent to the University of
Hawaii, lucky girl, so uh she'sgonna have to adjust from not
being going to the beach everyday.
But uh um you know, so yes, mywife and uh my daughter and her
boyfriend.

(03:03:25):
Um he hasn't been to much ofEurope, so he's sort of seeing
Paris for the first time, youknow, he's seeing Spain for the
first time.
Um but yeah, I mean just uh youknow, we love doing road trips.
Um what we sort of find is youknow, unless you actually sort
of get in a car and drive acrossthe country, you just miss so
much, right?
So you fly into a city and youfly out again, you get a certain
experience.

(03:03:46):
But what we really love doing issort of going to somewhere and
then spending two or three daysin a place, you know, seeing
some of the tourism stuff, maybejust relaxing by the pool and
then getting in the car and youknow driving for three or four
hours to the the next place orwhatever.
So yeah, so we started in Paris,then you know, Seville, um
Granada, Madrid, you know,decided we needed some beach
time, so uh down to the coastand then uh uh finishing off in

(03:04:08):
Barcelona.

SPEAKER_10 (03:04:09):
That's awesome.
I'm so glad you did.
I know it's been a while sinceyou've taken a trip of this
duration, and so um, andobviously wonderful to get that
family time.
And what was interesting is thaton the very first night I
arrived on the Monday and wentto a dinner function, and uh I
was speaking to uh a newindustry uh uh colleague, and I
was telling him, Oh, you need tomeet Andy, and he's like, You

(03:04:30):
and you need to know about minetrip.
And he was like, You're thefourth person that's told me
that today.
And so it's gotta be great foryou after having a bit of a bit
of downtime and then coming to aconference like this, um,
because you're a known entitynow.
I mean, I remember two years agowhen you guys were at these
conferences or going to avirtuoso conference or a rival,
and Christian Watts obviously isa good friend, Gillad as well.

(03:04:50):
Um, and so as you've been uhinvited into all these different
aspects of the industry, now allof a sudden, you know, people
are recognizing Mind Trip iswhere the industry is headed.
You guys are you know very muchahead of the curve.
And so all of a sudden, peopleare now finding you.

SPEAKER_19 (03:05:04):
Yeah, no, that's totally the case.
I mean, we're definitely um Iguess we're three years into
travel now, but I mean, everystartup we've done, we've always
uh started in an industry thatwe actually uh were outsiders on
and then became insiders rapidlyover time.

SPEAKER_11 (03:05:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_19 (03:05:18):
Um and you know, certain certainly helpful uh uh
and and nice when you get tothese conferences now to have
you know a lot of uh friendlyfaces that you know from from
prior ones and you know, eveneven help you get to your good
dinner reservations uh in theevening.

SPEAKER_10 (03:05:31):
Yeah, for sure.
Absolutely.
Um tell us a little bit aboutwhat's ahead for Mind Trip and
specifically for Europe.
I know you're gonna berecruiting uh and adding team
members.
And so yeah, tell us a littlebit about what's ahead for the
business, not just in terms oftechnology, but in terms of
growing the team.

SPEAKER_19 (03:05:46):
Yeah, so um so with Europe it's two things.
I mean, one is just really uhyou know working with um your
destinations locally.
Uh so you know, we're hiring aGM.
Uh we'll be starting very soon.
But I think it also needs uhyour consultants in each market
that understand the differentmarkets.
So you're actually having comefrom the UK originally, I have a

(03:06:08):
different appreciation of Europethan many Americans do.
That you know, there's lots ofmicro markets and you know you
need to know how to um you knowsort of have someone inside the
tent in each of you know thoseindividual markets, you can't
just do it all sort of centrallyor whatever.
So you're partly it's uh youknow any destinations that are
interested in in working withus, we'd love to talk to.
And then the second thing iswe're also taking the
opportunity, you know, we'vealready always had you know

(03:06:30):
multi-language and and whateverfor our DMO partners, but we're
now pushing that out across thewhole of our uh consumer side as
well.
So you know, we'll be supportingyou know in the next couple of
weeks 10 languages and you know,currency conversions and you
know, all the right date formatsand uh you know units and all
those kind of things.
So um you know that'll make it alot more accessible for your

(03:06:53):
people who aren't uh coming fromthe US.

SPEAKER_10 (03:06:55):
Fantastic.
Yeah, no, it's such an excitingtime as you continue to grow
this platform, grow the team,expand globally.
So obviously the focus now is onEurope.
I have to assume that in um thenext uh uh two years it's gonna
include Asia as well.

SPEAKER_19 (03:07:10):
Yep, we already have some uh early uh uh
opportunities there.
So yeah, that'll that'll becoming very quickly.

SPEAKER_10 (03:07:15):
Yeah, and and for any tourism boards that are
listening to this, I mean,obviously you can have a look at
that series, but there's um uhthere's no reason why a tourism
board and I was at the VisitCalifornia conference.
That was actually one of themost telling.
I was at the Visit Californiaconference and did a panel and
had a few different uh tourismboards, all of which were using
Mind Trip, like uh Monterey, uhAnaheim, and the benefits

(03:07:39):
they're seeing from the platformand the better understanding of
their customers.
You can see why you've quicklygotten to 100 plus.
And when you think about theglobal scale, I'm you know, I'm
bullish for Mind Trip just inthat category.
And then you think about all thedifferent verticals and sectors,
and then as you mentioned,flights and hotels.
Um, so obviously I'm encouragingall of our listeners to watch

(03:07:59):
this space very closely.
We'll have the Mind Trip teamback um at our summit later this
year.
We'll have Michelle speaking.
Um, if people want to followyour journey and be able to make
sure that they can connect withyou, Andy, directly, but also
follow where the team is goingto be.
Um I know you've got Rudy outthere at conferences as well.
Like I say, um, what would bethe best ways for people to

(03:08:22):
follow the journey and toconnect with you?

SPEAKER_19 (03:08:24):
I mean, you know, number one is uh try the
product.
Uh you'll uh be blown away howuh how complete it is.
Um so you know, firstly do thatuh for contacting us.
Um you know, we're still astartup, we're still you know,
sort of 40-ish people, uh, whichusually means our first name and
mindtroop.ai works really wellfor email.
Um so uh you know you couldreach me uh that way or most of

(03:08:47):
the other sort of senior teammembers as well.
We're at a lot of theconferences.
Uh we sort of spread it outbetween us, but uh um you know,
look for us uh when we're thereas well.
Um we'd love to love to connect.

SPEAKER_10 (03:08:58):
Well, actually, I road test this and I had a call
with Michelle a few uh a fewweeks ago, and I was uh
preparing for this trip toScotland, and I had actually
used Claude and ChatGPT in MindTrip, and I had put them into
different uh in a Google Doc andshared them with my mom and my
brother for this trip.
And then we printed them off andwent through them.
And overwhelmingly, it'sinteresting because when I
printed them off and we wentthrough them, people didn't know

(03:09:19):
uh which platform it was.
Um and overwhelmingly, the themind trip was like the
recommendations, the routing,the suggestions, the like the it
was so much more robust than anyof the other generic platforms.
So for any of the listeners outthere that are currently just
using um another platform fortravel planning, try Mind Trip.

SPEAKER_19 (03:09:38):
So maybe maybe we need to introduce the uh the the
Coke Pepsi uh blind taste testfor the mind trip versus the
LLM.

SPEAKER_10 (03:09:44):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, you definitely do.
It's um because it it is purposebuilt for travel, and this is
one of the things in ourindustry.
Is it feature complete?
Is it like fit for purpose?
And the answer is it absolutelyis.
So those challenges that peopleare having using other platforms
to plan their trip is not thecase with Mind Trip, which is
again why I think once peopleactually get that that itinerary

(03:10:05):
or have those options, then theywant to book that flight or book
that hotel.
So um, Andy, obviously it'salways great to see you.
I always enjoy uh your company,the conversations.
I think so highly of you and theteam, and obviously wonderful to
see you having great successhere at Focus Right Europe.
I wish you continued success,and I look forward to seeing you
again soon.

SPEAKER_19 (03:10:22):
Perfect.
And uh thanks for all you do aswell.
Uh, you're a really uh strongadvocate for the whole industry.

SPEAKER_10 (03:10:30):
Our next guest is a great friend of mine.
I always look forward to uhsitting down and catching up
with her at a conference likethis.
It is Charlotte Lamp Davies.
She's the founder of A BrightApproach.
She works with the Focus Rightteam.
She's done sessions here at theevent.
She works with a lot ofdifferent uh companies in the
travel industry.
I have a great respect andadmiration for her.
She's kindly brought me into ITBover the last couple of years.

(03:10:51):
So, Charlotte, welcome back toTravel Trends.

SPEAKER_17 (03:10:54):
It's absolutely wonderful to be back and great
to see you here in Barcelona onemore time.

SPEAKER_10 (03:10:59):
Yeah, likewise.
I mean, you were such a a keypart of this event.
Tell us a little bit about whatbrought you back this year,
because I know you're soinvolved in various sessions,
and specifically, I'm keen toknow about Monday's start to the
conference with the Middle Eastresearch.
So tell us, yeah, what broughtyou back and what what have you
been focused on the last fewdays?

SPEAKER_17 (03:11:18):
Yeah, as as you know, I am uh I am a great fan
of the focus ride event beingthe European or the or the one
in the States.
Uh I I have my little pin, uh,which means that I have done
more than 20 Focus Ride eventsnow over the course of some
whatever 18 years, which is uhwhich which really shows my love
for for the company and for forfor the event more importantly.

(03:11:41):
Yes, uh Monday was a fabulousbonus, um, I must say, because
we sadly didn't get to do weband travel Middle East back in
May due to the terriblecircumstances of the war kicking
off back then.
But we managed to move it tothis event, and obviously the
lovely Suhoon was driving it asalways.

(03:12:02):
And I think for me this is whereI was mostly in the conference
hall on Monday rather thannetworking because I really
wanted to try and get my fingeron the pulse in terms of what is
coming, what is happening in theregion, what are um what are our
friends doing in the region toto mitigate uh all the risk.
But also very importantly, therewas some fabulous um data-based

(03:12:27):
presentations uh delivered byOxford Economics, and uh the
very best one on the day, to mymind, was actually delivered by
uh Gemma Timmins uh from OAG.
Phenomenal lady, really, reallymanages to bring uh data to
life, which is a skill uh in itsown right.
So that was a super bonus forme.

SPEAKER_10 (03:12:47):
Fantastic.
We kicked off this episode withSue Hun, which was always
perfect timing for our listenersto learn more about web and
travel and her amazing role inthe industry because she's
another one of those legendaryfigures uh like yourself that
people gravitate to and isincredibly knowledgeable and so
well connected.
And it was fantastic that youguys had the opportunity to go
ahead with that conference.
I know Pete was so excited thatit was still gonna go ahead

(03:13:09):
here, and I heard some fantasticfeedback, including from our
common friend Stuart Grife.
And Stuart was taking picturesof the data, and I've
interviewed him on this podcastas well to share some of the
highlights.
What were some of the other bigtakeaways from uh for our
listeners that didn't have theprivilege to be there about what
the state of travel is in theMiddle East?
And I know we can't predict thepolitical situation because it

(03:13:31):
keeps changing.
It looks like it's getting moreuh optimistic, but uh what is
the kind of the long-term view?
I think Stuart was saying it'sabout 18 months if the war does
subside for the business to comeback in that region.
Uh, what were some of the otherinteresting takeaways from uh
from Monday?

SPEAKER_17 (03:13:45):
Well, I mean we we we know that the aftermath of
anything like that just takestime for things to stabilize,
but overwhelmingly everybodythat was in the room and that
all um work with with uh withinthe region and with clients from
the region were overwhelminglypositive, either about how uh
business as usual is happeningto a great extent in parts of

(03:14:09):
the region, and also how fastthat everybody believes that
things are gonna be right backwhere it was once we start to uh
sort of see a more stablesituation out there.
So, overall, maybe maybe alittle bit surprising that it
was as positive as it was.
Well, we had just had the newsthat the peace talks were going
in the right direction as wellon Monday.

(03:14:30):
So, and this is a little bit upand down.
I'm I'm you know,geopolitically, I try to keep my
finger on the pulse a littlebit, but I'm no expert.
So we don't know from one day tothe next what it's gonna look
like.
But over overall, I think thereis so much focus and there's
been so much attention on theMiddle East that people are
staying very optimistic aboutits recovery as soon as we get
to that stage.
So maybe that's the biggesttakeaway.

SPEAKER_10 (03:14:51):
Yeah, and the one thing also that Suhoon had
mentioned that I'm sure uh is atrend that you're paying
attention to as well is theincrease in regional travel.
So we've seen in the US market amassive increase in domestic
travel this year, which againthere's winners and losers
whenever these travel shiftshappen.
So international travelers thatuh international uh destinations
rely on American travelers uhhave been challenged this year,

(03:15:13):
and same with Australia.
Um but domestic has really takenoff because many Americans are
staying home 250th anniversary.
But the but the part that reallystood out for what Suhoon shared
is that when people tr uh stillcontinue to travel within their
region.
I shared the example with SouthAmerica because we've seen uh a
real increase of people withinSouth America traveling to other
countries in South America.

(03:15:33):
So being more reliant on theirregional neighbors, and I guess
that's also what you're uhthey're seeing in the Middle
East as well.
That if you don't have theinternational travelers, well
Saudi Arabia is still busy withregional countries traveling to
Saudi Arabia because all theseamazing resorts that they've
built.
So it's it's just interestinghow these pat travel patterns
shift and change.

SPEAKER_17 (03:15:51):
Yeah, I mean I I I am I I wouldn't call myself a
Middle Eastern expert, that'sfor sure.
Uh wouldn't necessarily callmyself an expert at all.
But what I but what I what whatI do know and what I think has
been a little bit of amisconception is that I mean the
Middle East is building out itstourism offering first and
foremost for the locals.

(03:16:12):
And you know, eventually one daythe internationals will be a
benefit.
But I I and I'm not sure thatthat's what they would say
themselves, but you know,they're not expecting the whole
world to descend on the MiddleEast just because they build out
they're building these resortsat the moment.
They are relying on the localsfirst and foremost, and they
will be there.

SPEAKER_10 (03:16:31):
Yeah.
No, that's interesting.
Well, another area that youactually are an expert on for
sure is on the tours andactivities side.
Um, not only in your role atITB, but here at Focus Right.
And I wanted to switch on tothat next.
Uh talk us through the sessionthat you did yesterday on tours
and activities.
I'd love to hear, because Ididn't have the opportunity to
present live.
I always um take the opportunitywhenever you are on stage, but

(03:16:52):
uh, given I was tied up withrecordings, I didn't have that
privilege.
Tell us a little bit about thesession, who was a part of it,
and what some of the takeawayswere.

SPEAKER_17 (03:16:59):
Well, you were missed.
You know, I was looking around.
Where where is he?
He's always here for this roundtable.
No, it's great.
I've been uh moderating the thetourist and activities
roundtable for for a number ofyears for Focus Ride, and and
it's it's close to my heart.
I I I love travel, but I'm also,should we say, equally a little
bit concerned about how wetravel and and maybe sometimes

(03:17:20):
even the the lack of educationuh i i in terms of how we
prepare people to travel and totravel well and to be respectful
when they're in location, uhmixing with the locals.
And and you know, it's nottrouble-free.
Uh, you know, it's a wonderfulsector, the tourism activities,
the most loved or whatever itis, uh, the best part of travel,
as Douglas says.
As Douglas says, Douglas uhQuimby, yeah, the best part of

(03:17:42):
travel.
Well, I wouldn't disagree withthat, but but but we I think
what the round table uh was verymuch about yesterday was very
much talking about how how do webalance things now?
I mean, how do we reallyseriously work on getting the
balance right so we can keep ourlocals happy.
And we can still invite you knowthe travelers and the tourists

(03:18:04):
into all of the the the bestplaces in travel, shall we say,
but also maybe a little bitfurther afield.

SPEAKER_10 (03:18:09):
Yeah, and um I know those sessions are always
particularly valuable.
I like the round tables giventhe fact that people get to
really interact and askquestions.
Um Charlie, the other thing I'dlove to get your take on is you
know, as we're having thisconversation towards the uh the
middle of day two, and thisconference is two days plus the
um we're it's it's kind ofmidday Wednesday, I should say,

(03:18:31):
and you're uh two and a halfdays into the conference.
I'd love to hear any othertakeaways and insights from the
other sessions because I haven'thad the privilege of attending a
number of them, and I know youmake the effort because you're
not only great uh with thenetworking, but you're also
great uh at being at thesessions and learning and being
able to apply that knowledge.
And I think you're probably mostsimilar to me in that regard

(03:18:52):
because it's not just about thenetworking, it really is about
the knowledge sharing, and youwant to be in the sessions to be
able to see.
So I'd love if you wouldn't mindsharing, if there's been some
interesting other highlightsfrom Focus Right Europe this
year.

SPEAKER_17 (03:19:04):
I mean, we kicked off with Center Stage yesterday
after we had the startupcompetition, the global startup
competition, which is alwaysgreat.
I I I love that.
I just love to see uh who'sdoing what and who's thinking
differently and who's coming infrom outside of travel, into
travel, to show us what's thenext big, you know, the next
best tool is going to be inorder for us to navigate the

(03:19:25):
travel landscape.
So I enjoyed that very muchyesterday.
Again, there was a fantastic uhopening presentation by uh
Philip Philippov, uh CEO of OAG.
I I happen to be um uh a greatfan of Philip, and uh ever since
I knew him when he was withSkyscanner, uh I have I have
followed him quite closely.
Uh he says it as he sees it, andand he's a great presenter.

(03:19:47):
So it was just very, veryinteresting for him, you know,
again to use the data that theyhave in order to sort of kind of
come with a f come up with a fewpredictions, and I like that.
And then, like you, I mean, Istruggle with both networking
and jumping in and out of thesessions, but today I'm looking
uh very much looking out for thebig AI uh session this
afternoon, uh just because weneed to know, we need to try to

(03:20:07):
understand what's going on.

SPEAKER_10 (03:20:09):
For sure, for sure.
And I know you're very activeacross the industry and have a
number of different clients thatyou work with.
I'd love for you just to sharewhat your views are in terms of
the trends you're payingattention to, Charlotte.
So outside of focus right and usbeing here uh in Europe,
obviously one of the thingsyou're based in London.
This conference is moving toLondon next year, as you well
know.
Um, what are some of the thingsyou're paying attention to that

(03:20:30):
our audience uh should also uhbe aware of?

SPEAKER_17 (03:20:34):
Well, I think it's probably been said before, but
or yeah, I'm sure it's been saidbefore that everybody is still
working out how how best toimplement AI and where to
implement it.
It is still very much part ofthe bigger conversation.
Most conferences open by opensup, you know, with AI in the
first sentence.
So it is still something that weare that we're very, very
focused on on getting right.

(03:20:56):
A number of my uh technologycompany clients are implementing
it or have built theirtechnology on AI or with AI by
their sides.
So, you know, I'm very close toit in that regard, and I see how
again they are selling theirservices and their tools into
the travel industry, and thefeedback from that is very much
that we are beginning to see theresults in certain areas and

(03:21:18):
other things are still beingtried and tested.
So it it is it is not thatinteresting at the moment what I
what I find to be new.
I still think it's the samething that I said six months
ago.

SPEAKER_10 (03:21:30):
And given that you are traveling all the time,
working with different clientsat conferences, tell us what the
next six months looks like foryou.
I know we'll see each otherthroughout the year, and we'll
be together again in Focus RightUSA in in November in Florida,
which is awesome.
I'm so looking forward togetting back to the diplomat.
Um but tell us what you haveplanned for the next six months,
for the rest of 2026.

SPEAKER_17 (03:21:51):
Well, I'm definitely hoping to have a holiday over
the summer.

SPEAKER_10 (03:21:55):
You deserve one.
If anyone does, it's you,Charlie.

SPEAKER_17 (03:21:57):
It's been a hectic six months, and of course, June
has been back to back to back toback to back with travel
conferences.
I mean, it's uh it's the newcrazy season, that's for sure.
Uh I'm looking forward to thetravel tech show next week and
the business travel show, ofcourse, in London.
I'm not quite done yet.
Uh, and also we've got theTravolution Connects event next
week.
Um, so again, three events backto back.

(03:22:20):
Uh we just about leave herebefore the next ones kick off.
Then it's a little bit morequiet for me over the summer,
maybe to contemplate how to uhto get into to Q2 and uh and
then we get into Q3 before weknow it.
There's uh I do a number ofGerman events as well for my DAC
German-based speaking clients aswell.
So I'm looking forward to FVWCongress in Leipzig again this

(03:22:41):
year.
So there's a couple of littlemore niche conferences that I
attend as well.

SPEAKER_10 (03:22:45):
Yeah, well, one of the things that I mentioned uh
when I was speaking to Stuartabout you, so we were speaking
about your ears might haveburning.
It's just what a great advocateyou both are for diversity in
our industry and obviouslyfemale leadership and yourself.
One of the things I've mentionedon our podcast before, but for
anyone who's just getting toknow Charlotte, one of the
things she highlighted to me wasactually mentoring young men to

(03:23:07):
help them actually betterunderstand to be uh inclusive
leaders in the workplace.
And and so, you know, you um abright approach, you know,
you're such a you're a brightlight, a positive energy.
I always look forward tocatching up with you.
And I know you work with anumber of different travel
companies as an advisor who arevery lucky to work with you.
And on that note, I know howbusy you are.

(03:23:28):
I do want to make sure that anyof our listeners who are just
coming to learn more about uhCharlotte Lamp Davies and a
bright approach, uh, telleveryone how they can connect
with you or potentiallycollaborate with you if they
were so lucky.

SPEAKER_17 (03:23:40):
Well, I'm I'm always open to uh to new conversations.
Always, always.
I I love it.
I think I think part of um Ithink part of the biggest joy
for me uh running the themanagement company is is is my
love of of connecting withpeople and connecting people
with people.
So uh it's it's an easy thing todo, and uh when you're at an
event like this, you know, itit's it's double easy because

(03:24:03):
everybody is is in the room.
So if anybody fancies the chat,they can find me uh on LinkedIn,
it's probably the easiest.
Uh or look for a brightapproach.
Uh you can find me via the thethe website there as well.
Um and yeah, I look forward toseeing you at the next event
very soon.

SPEAKER_10 (03:24:20):
Yeah, thank you so much, Charlotte.
I really value our ourfriendship, and I always enjoy
collaborating with you in anyopportunity to be on stage and
be at conferences, and like,yeah, you're just such a um a
wonderful person to know.
So thank you for making the timefor this.
I'm glad we were able to sitdown and get this little brief
moment together.
Uh, good luck with the rest ofthe conference, and I will see

(03:24:40):
you again for sure uh again verysoon.

SPEAKER_17 (03:24:42):
I can't thank you enough.
Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_10 (03:24:46):
Our next guest here live in Barcelona at the Focus
Right conference is CarolinaCastillo, and she is the general
manager for the European andMiddle East and Africa for
travel payments.
And she's based in London, buthere together with us at the
conference today.
Carolina, great to meet you.
Thanks for joining us on TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_04 (03:25:05):
Dan, thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_10 (03:25:07):
I would like to start by giving everyone a bit
of an overview of WEX.
So the website, of course, forour listeners is Wexinc.com.
Some of our listeners may befamiliar with WEX, but for those
of the listeners who aren't,would you mind just giving us an
overview of the company?

SPEAKER_04 (03:25:21):
Absolutely.
So WEX is a global business andwe have three main divisions
benefits, mainly running in theUS.
We also have our mobilitybusiness, which includes fleet
cards and EV.
And then, of course, we have thetravel uh space and global
corporate payments, where iswhere I sit supporting directly
travel uh companies.

SPEAKER_10 (03:25:42):
Fantastic.
And so a bit of background onWEX, because when I was having a
look at the website inanticipation of our
conversation, all the cards thatyou have, like fuel cards,
employee benefits, I mean thisis WEX is a big business.
Um, how did you guys get intotravel?

SPEAKER_04 (03:25:56):
That's a very interesting question.
I think it just came naturallyuh issuing virtual cards, and
virtual cards are some veryimportant problem, right?
It it helps about thereconciliation and automation.
So it helps travel agents thathave become the merchant of
record to scale up theiroperations.
And at the same time, itprotects them from fraud, uh, it

(03:26:18):
protects them from risk offailure from the suppliers, such
as airlines or potentiallyhotels.
So it just came as a naturalevolution of being a
payment-centric company.

SPEAKER_10 (03:26:27):
Fantastic.
And so and your role, obviously,general manager for one of the
key regions globally.
Tell us a little bit more aboutyour background, how you got
into this space, andspecifically about your role at
Wax.

SPEAKER_04 (03:26:39):
I've been in payments uh most of my career,
and I was delighted when Ijoined Wax because it's uh it's
the intersection betweenpayments and travel.
And travel is, as we know, sucha fun uh industry to work in.
And what I love about being hereis being able to bring all the
payment innovation into thetravel space, making sure that

(03:27:00):
we can support our customers,not just with our product, with
our platform, but with theadvice we give them about trends
and what's going on in theindustry.

SPEAKER_10 (03:27:08):
Well, I know you spent nearly 12 years at
American Express before as avice president of commercial
partnerships and innovation.
So American Express is one ofthe more innovative financial
services companies that I'veever had the chance to work with
when you actually get behind thescenes and understand all the
things that American Express isdoing with the data,
understanding customer profiles.
We've done a lot of targetedmailing to customers who have

(03:27:30):
American Express cards, but tounderstand their travel
patterns.
So that clearly has to be one ofthe values of um utilizing WEX
is you get a lot of data oncustomers and how they're using
virtual cards.
Yes.
Um tell us what would be someexamples of partners that WEX
works with?

SPEAKER_04 (03:27:44):
Uh in terms of our clients, uh, we work for with
Booking.com, so one of the majoruh travel agents in the world.
We in fact work with eight outof the ten top travel agents,
OTAs in in the world.
So they are trusting us withtheir operations.
And of course, they give us alot of data.
So we know where people aregoing, we know what are the
trends, we know all thechallenges, and we can

(03:28:05):
anticipate those um thosechallenges for uh advice to our
customers.

SPEAKER_10 (03:28:10):
Fantastic.
And then specifically being hereat Focus, right?
Um I'm very keen to know whatbrought you to the event here
this year.
Clearly, it's not too far totravel, and actually, next year,
for many of our listeners whojust find out it's gonna be in
London, so you won't have totravel too far.

SPEAKER_04 (03:28:24):
Yeah, well, that that has its pros and its cons,
right?
It's always nice to be here inuh in sunny Barcelona, but be
delighted to be welcoming peoplein in London.
So I think Focus uh right, it'sa great event to connect with
people.
Um, connect not just withclients but with tech uh
partners.
Uh for me is uh continue tomaking sure people understand

(03:28:45):
the evolution of travelpayments, makes uh understand
that without um strategy, apayment strategy, they don't
have a growth strategy.
So payments has become socentral in terms of how people
uh in the travel industry runtheir businesses that we have to
be at the center of the C-suitethe discussions.

SPEAKER_10 (03:29:02):
Yeah, and for me, I mean this was my uh second Focus
Right Europe conference.
One of the things I like aboutthe size and scale of this
conference is it's moremanageable.
I love the US conference, it'syou know it's the it's the
flagship.
But this conference, you get topindustry executives that are
much more accessible.
Um I know we're having thisconversation towards the end of
day one.
What's your take so far on FocusRight Europe?

(03:29:24):
And uh what's your take so faron Focus Right Europe?

SPEAKER_04 (03:29:27):
Yeah, I think it's um very similar to you.
The the ability to be able tospeak to top executives, have
very engaging conversations, andit's not a massive space.
We're all really in a relativelysmall space, and you can have
lunch with somebody else, have acoffee in the morning with
somebody uh else.
So it just it just works.

SPEAKER_10 (03:29:45):
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree.
And that's the um the sessionsas well.
Like I did a panel sessionearlier today.
A lot of them are smaller, moreum interactive sessions.
Yes.
So you get a chance to actuallyget involved as an attendee.
Um as far as some of the thingsyou else you have planned, is
there how do you divide yourtime here between networking and
sessions?
Is it a combination of the twoof those, like learning from

(03:30:07):
other practitioners in thespace?
But I'm assuming there's got tobe a lot of great networking
opportunities for you guys aswell.

SPEAKER_04 (03:30:11):
Yeah, it's how do you maximize your time?
I do have enjoyed many of thesessions.
I have I was just being in thestartup once great ideas, uh uh
great entrepreneurs thinking howthey solve problems with for our
industry.
So that is absolutely fantastic.
And then yeah, just the the thebreaks, the launches to spend
time to with people.

SPEAKER_10 (03:30:30):
That's great.
And then getting back to some ofthe trends that are happening in
the industry, I would love toknow from your vantage point on
the the payment side, what aresome of the trends that you're
seeing at WEX that obviouslyyou're bringing to conversations
here at the conference, but alsosome of the things you're paying
attention to that our listenersmight find interesting?

SPEAKER_04 (03:30:48):
Well, I think if you work in the travel industry,
there's always something goingon, right?
So there is volatility, we knowwe have the Middle East a
conflict.
So how knowing that this is thismight happen, is how do you make
sure that you have the rightstrategy to help people mitigate
the risk, percept their cashflow, and very importantly,
percept the trust of their oftheir clients.

(03:31:10):
So there's been a big questionaround what's happening now with
the shock that we have inFebruary when when the when the
conflict started.
And where we're seeing is yes,there has been a decrease, of
course, of people going in andpeople from the region coming
out, but uh we are seeing uhsome other areas where that uh
uh travelers are are choosing togo.

(03:31:31):
So I think that is somethingthat I have heard other people
as well comment it and ourclients say it.
We see it in the data.
Uh, but what is important ispeople to remember to be in
prepare for the next crisisbecause there's always a crisis
around the corner.

SPEAKER_10 (03:31:46):
That's so true about the travel industry, is we kind
of go from crisis to crisis, andthe reality is that travelers
keep coming back.
Travelers are incrediblyresilient, as you know.
It's interesting during the uhCOVID, which is obviously part
of how this podcast ultimatelycame about, one of the things
that I was seeing across thetravel industry was the need for
virtual car payments becausepeople were unsure who to trust.

(03:32:09):
And you know, if you have acompany that might fall over
during the pandemic that'sholding on to client uh funds,
uh so all of a sudden virtualcards took on a new meaning.
What is sort of in 2026, giventhe uncertainty, what are you
seeing some of the trends inpayment activity, whether it be
from suppliers or for customers?

SPEAKER_04 (03:32:26):
So I think people want choice, and that comes from
the consumer also to the travelagent.
So one of the things that uh wehave an advantage point if we
are able to offer our clientseither a prepaid solution or a
credit solution or somethingthat we have as a hybrid
solution where they can do bothwith the same with the same
product.
So the ability to flex for oneanother and not be worried about

(03:32:49):
if you're gonna have to have thecash flow is an advantage you're
giving.
So I think choice is veryimportant, removing friction as
well.
And of course, we cannot stop,you know, we can not mention AI,
right?
And the sort of things that aregonna happen.
For me, if I just may drill alittle bit in on AI, I don't see
necessarily that there's gonnabe a huge change in the payment

(03:33:11):
itself, but in the wrapperaround how that payment takes
place, the controls that happenfor that uh payment to go
safely.
Is it coming with the rightintent from the customer?
Are the risk models from issuersuh being adjusted because now
there's a car not present,there's not gonna be biometrics,
there's not gonna be IPlocation.

(03:33:32):
So there are so many things thatthat that are gonna be changing
that the issuers have to startrecalibrating that to make sure
they don't have any much more uhfalse positives than necessary.
And of course, accountabilitywhen it comes to things going
wrong, but sometimes thathappen, who is accountable for?
And that's where regulators aregonna start looking and making
sure the process is iswatertight.

SPEAKER_10 (03:33:53):
Well, so let's talk about AI, because actually in
this series, we haven't been focoverly focused on it.
Many uh previous eventspotlights and you know how it
works in conversations atconferences.
Everyone's talking about AI allthe time.
Um, but let's get into some ofyour views on where AI is on the
travel industry or even as itrelates to payments.
What do you think the impact isof AI so far in travel?

(03:34:16):
And where do you think we are inthat journey and where where are
we headed?

SPEAKER_04 (03:34:19):
When I was here last year, everything was about
discovery.
People were worried that what'sgonna happen to the big travel
uh uh OTAs, are they gonnadisappear?
Is Google gonna get intobecoming a travel agent?
I think we're past that.
Uh people now know andunderstand that they had to
readjust their uh websites to bediscoverable, this discoverable.

(03:34:40):
And instead of having SEO, wehave GEO, right?
So that was last year.
We're moving into that, thatjust became the the stream.
Really, when AI is start addinga lot of value, it's in the back
office.
Like all those repeatable manualprocesses that could be
automated.
So those companies that arereally investing on making their
operations more efficient arethe ones that are more gonna
move faster and be able to havea differentiator not just on

(03:35:03):
cost, but on customer service,and we'll keep them at the
forefront of the travelindustry.

SPEAKER_10 (03:35:08):
And then tell us a little bit what's ahead for WEX.
Where are you guys headed overthe next year?
What are some of theinnovations, whether it be
around AI and technology or evenjust partnerships?
Where is WEX headed over thenext six to 12 months?

SPEAKER_04 (03:35:19):
I mean, WEX as a global business, uh, of course,
we're very bullish about AI.
Uh, we recently, in just threemonths, our tech team created
what is called Chat GTS uh withAWS Petrock, which uh, if you
can see it, there's a YouTubevideo about it.
It's quite interesting how in ashort period of time they
created this to attend to 4,000uh tickets that are created and

(03:35:43):
it's reducing now 25%.
So we are really making surethat we are working with AI and
maximize it to get ouroperations um working.
In the forefront, when it isspecifically about travel, for
us it's very important to havepartnerships.
So we work very closely as wellwith airlines to make sure that
um they are also part of theecosystem and they're happy to

(03:36:05):
accept cars.
In the past, and generallythere's been a resistance of
accepting virtual cars becausethere is a cost, but there's
only a cost when you don't seevalue.
So it's our job to work with theairlines, and we're seeing more
and more on that.
And our clients come to us andstay with us because they know
that we can make the pie biggerfor them because we are gonna
make it uh sure that they havemore places where they can use

(03:36:27):
their cards.

SPEAKER_10 (03:36:28):
Exciting.
And I think that's where one ofthe things uh that uh gets
forgotten is the the importanceof payments in terms of uh
conversions and just it'sultimately that's the moment of
truth is someone gonna pull outtheir credit card and actually
make this purchase and there'sso much friction still around
payments.
I think this is still a lot ofinnovation that can happen
around the payment space.

(03:36:48):
Is there anything you'd point tofor especially businesses that
are trying to increase theirconversions or make sure that
customers continue to come backto them?
Um what's your take on what willbe your advice to them?

SPEAKER_04 (03:37:01):
Um as I said before, like uh if you didn't have a
payment strategy, you don't havea growth strategy, and I cannot
emphasize that enough.
It's understanding also fromyour pay-in and balancing you
know how many payment optionsthat you have, and there are the
right people uh the rightoptions for your market and for
your audience.
If you have too many, they'regonna get confused.

(03:37:22):
If you have too little, youknow, they might get uh you
might you might lose them,right?
And if they are not smooth andthere is friction, then they're
gonna have uh you have will haveabandonment through the through
the customer journey.
So that's just money going in.
But then what's your paymentstrategy for money coming out?
Because when there is a shockand we'll be talking about
crisis, and then your clientwants to refund, you know, a

(03:37:43):
travel agent has to get thatrefund fairly quickly, otherwise
they're gonna be uh uh uh neghaving negative cash flow,
right?

SPEAKER_10 (03:37:51):
Yeah, chargebacks, all these things that like come
out of the street.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Um one thing I want to make sureis that as our listeners hear
more about this is that they canfollow up and connect with you.
But before we do that, just twolast questions I have for you.
So if you um project forward forour industry when we are
together again next year inLondon, um what is as an

(03:38:14):
industry and as a conference,what what do you think we're
gonna be talking about this timenext year?
What do you think is gonna bethe hot topic?
What would you project forwardfor our listeners?
Would be where do we go fromhere after Focus Right Europe in
Barcelona?

SPEAKER_04 (03:38:27):
I think this time next year in London, uh, we will
be talking about all thetransactions that are now
happening with Agentic AI.
I think that that they go veryfast.
But I also think that we will belistening to the case studies of
how people have used AI in theback office as opposed to in the
forefront.
So that's my prediction.

SPEAKER_10 (03:38:48):
All right, I think that's a pretty accurate
prediction.
Um and on that note, I just wantto make sure, Carolina, that our
listeners can connect with youafter the conversation, whether
it be on LinkedIn or email.
What would be the best ways foruh for our listeners to reach
out?

SPEAKER_04 (03:39:00):
Absolutely.
LinkedIn uh is a good place.
Otherwise, my email iscarolina.castillo with a double
l at wexinc.com.

SPEAKER_10 (03:39:08):
Fantastic.
Lovely to meet you here.
Good luck with the rest of theconference.
I look forward to keeping intouch.

SPEAKER_04 (03:39:12):
Thank you, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (03:39:15):
My next guest has traveled all the way from both
Tel Aviv and Munich to be here,where he divides his time
running an incredibly successfultravel company called Move.
He's the founder and CEO.
Arez Busso, great to have you onthe Travel Trends Podcast.
Thanks for joining us.
Whoa, thank you very much.
It's a pleasure to be here.
And so his website iswearmove.ai, as we're having

(03:39:37):
this conversation, but thecompany is called Move.
Tell everyone a littlebackground on the company and
what you guys do.

SPEAKER_20 (03:39:42):
So uh yeah, so we uh tuckle uh one of the um let's
say last segment to bedigitalizing travel, which is
the holiday packages, and webuild an in uh agentic commerce
infrastructure for travel.
We've been back then from thetour.
Operator, I've been atwo-operator, classic one,
taking commitment, flight, andso on.

(03:40:05):
And for the last six years, uhI'm obsessed about solving uh
the this uh complex uh segment,which is the holiday package,
and delivering matched offer tothe user uh that is struggling
to find it online.

SPEAKER_10 (03:40:23):
And and you are a serial entrepreneur, you've had
multiple startup success storiesbefore this, and as you
mentioned, you've been around,we're running this uh for six
years.
So uh you are uh also have beento the focus right conference
before.

SPEAKER_20 (03:40:36):
Oh, yeah, many times.
Yeah, many times in the focusright.
Uh it's been a great comingyear, uh meeting people,
sometimes new, sometimes thesame people.
We're speaking along the year.
And uh I think uh it's a bestplace just to understand that
we're doing the right thing andwe're not just you know building
something that no one knowwants.

SPEAKER_10 (03:40:57):
Well, and your the the work around infrastructure
for AI and travel is animportant conversation that's
being had here at theconference.
Tell everyone what brought youto the conference this year.
Obviously, you've been herebefore.
Any specific reasons you cameback to Barcelona to be part of
Focus Rate Europe?

SPEAKER_20 (03:41:14):
Yeah, sure.
So two years ago, I came herewith an announcement that we're
building the first Intend Firstbooking platform.
Uh we won back then the PeopleChoice Award as a startup, and
uh that was quite exciting.
And I think what was veryexciting back then is that I was

(03:41:34):
on stage presenting a deckwithout even mentioning AI one
time.
Today, this deck will neverpass.
So uh today I'm here to uhpresent Move, which is moving
from a product which was HolidayHeroes, our product that we
started to build, into aninfrastructure that is open now

(03:41:56):
for everyone.
We tested what we've built, nowwe're opening for everyone, and
that's exactly the place toannounce it.

SPEAKER_10 (03:42:03):
Yeah, and actually, just on that point, so there's
holiday heroes and then alsorate core.
Tell everyone about those twobusinesses and platforms which
now are under the move business.

SPEAKER_20 (03:42:14):
Perfect.
So those are two products underthe move umbrella, the movie
infrastructure.
So Holiday Heroes is wherebrands can build, run, and scale
their travel business, theirtravel store.
Think about Shopify for travel.
Okay, Shopify, you can build,everyone can build this store,
and that's Oliday Heroes hub.
It allows you to easily onboard,create your store, and start

(03:42:36):
selling travel online.
And a RAID core is the agenticsystem that is transforming any
intent into bookable item, andit has his own MCP, so a
protocol that allows all AIagents with one query to get
access to flight, hotelpackages, and in the future,

(03:42:58):
we're gonna have also cruisesand other services.
Uh, so those are the twoservices and two access points
into our infrastructure.
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (03:43:08):
And so, with with move now being this
infrastructure play, who wouldbe some examples of clients
you'd work with?

SPEAKER_20 (03:43:15):
So, custom uh currently we're seeing huge
demand coming from especiallyyou know AI tree planners that
are building amazing platformthat understand the user and
building beautiful itinerary,but I need the booking part.
And when when the customer says,Okay, that's nice, that's
amazing.
Now I need to book it, that'swhere it breaks, and that's

(03:43:38):
exactly the gap that we'refilling, and that's uh one of
the segments.
The second second segment, Ithink that all two operators,
big brands, travel companiesthat have a strong brand but are
relying on legacy technology,they are now moving from legacy
into an agentic infrastructure,and that's exactly what we're

(03:43:59):
delivering.
So we're giving them theinfrastructure, an agentic
infrastructure that it allowsthem to address the user where
the user wants to be, which isChat GPT and uh Cloud and the
and different AI funnel.

SPEAKER_10 (03:44:16):
So you mentioned uh trip planners, of course.
Um also within the travelecosystem, I know you work with
tour operators.
Uh tell us a little bit on thisidea of like AI power packaging.
I'm really intrigued by thatbecause a lot of tour operators
are very uh disconnected andvery offline.
So I'd love, I'm sure many touroperators listening to this

(03:44:37):
would be intrigued to know how Ican become an AI native
business.

SPEAKER_20 (03:44:41):
Yeah, that's uh that's a great you know.
I stand the other day in frontof 200 German two operators, and
I was I I I didn't feel goodbecause I I was talking about AI
and so on in front of peoplethat are using and still taking
commitment and Excel sheets andso on.
So I think it is really time tounderstand that for too long

(03:45:03):
those two operators they forcedcustomers to buy what they
wanted to sell.
And in travel, it doesn't workthis way.
It's it's not because you took acommitment or you decided to
commit on 100 rooms in a hotelin Mallorca that that's what the
user wants.
And now with AI where thecustomer can express what he

(03:45:24):
wants, the industry needs tochange.
So the two operator, an AI powerpackage, is a package that is
built based on user intent.
So I'm telling you that I'mlooking for a beach holiday with
a family.
I'm gonna tell you what is theage of my kid, I'm gonna tell
you what I like to do duringthis holiday.
Now is your turn to tell me whatwhere you want to take me.

(03:45:50):
And uh and it's not about uhendless option, it's about
outcome because that's what theuser currently looking for.
He wants outcome.
He's gonna tell us what hewants, we need to bring outcome,
and that is forcing the industryto change.
So those two operators who haveexcellent brand who for years
base their entire business oninventory that they wanted to

(03:46:13):
sell, not need to get rid ofthis inventory and just connect
and give results.

SPEAKER_10 (03:46:19):
And what let's talk about results because obviously
that's I know you guys have hadquite a bit of traction with
your platform over the years,and now as you look at what's
having a big impact for travelcompanies in terms of
conversion, one of the thingsthat has been highlighted by uh
I good friend John Lyotier, whoruns Travel AI, who's part of
this podcast as well, is thenumber of people that after

(03:46:40):
using agentic, after after usinggenerative AI tools to do
research, they're much morelikely to actually book.
Uh so the conversion rates aremuch higher when people have
done that research uh on theirown.
So tell us, like in terms ofeither booking uplift or
increased conversion rates, whatare some of the success, some
what are some of the successmetrics you'd point out that
would be interesting to ourlisteners?

SPEAKER_20 (03:47:01):
100%.
So uh if we go back then in thetraditional search, the
conversion rate on packages wasaround 0.6%.
When we introduced an intentdriven, which was just asking
the user some question beforejust delivering it, not asking
him where we want to go, askinghim what he wants to do, we went

(03:47:23):
from 0.6 to 2.4%.
And with uh natural language, wereach 4% conversion rate.
The reason is simple.
Uh not that simple, but uhsimple.
The reason is that when youforce a user to put a
destination, you're not askinghim really the real the

(03:47:43):
question.
You're asking him a questionthat he doesn't have the answer
to.
You ask me where do you want togo?
I don't know.
I don't know.
There's so many out there.
I saw so many destinations.
I don't know when I want to go.
But when finally you don't askhim where do you want to go,
you're just telling him, What doyou want to do?
What do you feel more emotional?

(03:48:05):
What do you feel like doing inyour holiday?
Then he is much more engagedwith the result because he feels
that the result matches anemotion.
It doesn't just match uh boxesthat I just filled up and you
forced me to do that.
I didn't want to do that.
And I think that's where we seea significant uplift in

(03:48:25):
conversion, and we proved it.

SPEAKER_10 (03:48:27):
And then where to from here?
Obviously, you know, you've gotmultiple businesses now under
obviously, it would sound to melike move is on the march and
you guys are continuing toexpand.
What's ahead for you guys overthe next six to twelve months?

SPEAKER_20 (03:48:40):
So, in the next six uh to twelve months, we have uh
a pipeline of partners toonboard on our infrastructure.
So, from small AI trip builderto very large uh operators that
we want to onboard and uh wewant them to take advantage of
years of experience of aninfrastructure now that can

(03:49:00):
deliver on the AI era.
And in five times years, I'mgonna jump to five years because
I think that in five years,every AI agent that is going to
book travel is gonna run on ourrails.
That's where we want to go.

SPEAKER_10 (03:49:15):
That's exciting.
That's a big proposition.
That's uh, you know, and evenbeing willing to go out five
years because so much ischanging month to month at the
moment, as you well know withAI.
But you guys were ahead of thecurve.
You founded the business duringCOVID, obviously a challenging
time.
So you guys were ahead of thisAI wave that we're all very
familiar with now over the lastthree years.
Um, from a conference like this,I'd love to get your insights

(03:49:37):
around you know, what elsebrings you to a conference like
this?
And what are maybe some of theother benefits of being here at
Focus Right Europe from whatyou're seeing and hearing about
what's going on in the industry?

SPEAKER_20 (03:49:45):
So it's very interesting to see different
decades.
I think this is quite aninteresting industry.
I think there's only sellershere, there's no buyers.
So it's very interesting to seeeveryone's challenges and
everyone uh where it goes.
I think some one of the thingsthat always very surprised me is
that there may be somethingthat's evolving, but something

(03:50:06):
that doesn't change.
Travel is still is still a trustissue, companies are here, and
what I see there's more andmore, we're shifting into more
and more data uh companies.
I'm seeing here much morecompanies that are providing
data and providing uh so verytiny solution to solve specific

(03:50:27):
problems.
And I think there's this is veryexciting because at the end of
the day, we are living in aworld that finally understands
that it's all about data, sotravel is shifting, and uh and
this is very interesting.
What brings me here is just tomeet people.
Travel is around network, travelis a face-to-face business, and
uh AI is maybe uh accelerating acertain shift, but AI will never

(03:50:53):
limit us to continue meetpeople, seeing how we can grow
faster.
And I think that is the bigopportunity.
I'm speaking with people thatare telling me all of them, wow,
we shouldn't build that.
So that means we can be alive inone month, in two months, and
then I said, Yeah, we can be youcan be live.

(03:51:14):
Because today everyoneunderstands that owning the
technology doesn't mean asuccess.
If they can move but time tomarket, it is very important.
And this priority, uh, give uswe've built it, we've done it,
so it give us a great advantage.
And being here, it's uh it'sit's just great.

SPEAKER_10 (03:51:35):
I got two more questions for you.
One, I'm just keen to get yourtake on what's happening in the
industry at large.
So outside of this conferencethat we're here together at, I
know you have uh offices inLisbon, in Munich, and of course
in Tel Aviv, and you operateglobally.
What are some of the otherthings that you are paying
attention to in terms of thetrends, whether it's traveler

(03:51:55):
behavior or um customersentiment?
What are some of the thingsyou're paying attention to in
2026 that might be interestingfor our listeners to be aware
of?

SPEAKER_20 (03:52:04):
So the current sentiment is uh so on a on a
professional perspective, thecurrent sentiment is okay, where
AI is gonna give it.
You know, we are currentlyraising fund uh in order to
accelerate our growth becausewe're getting a significant uh
and I can I can tell you thatthe sentiment in the industry is
uh and I'm hearing it more andmore is where does really AI is

(03:52:27):
gonna take us?
Where is AI?
What's gonna happen?
What will be what will be thebehavior of the user?
Are they gonna book with AIagent?
Are they gonna book into insidea chatbot or everything is gonna
say stay the same?
Those are big questions, andlet's be honest, no one has the
answer.
No one has the answer.
The important thing is to listento the customer, test and learn,

(03:52:49):
test and learn, test and learn.
So that's the the in terms ofthe user, what's extremely,
extremely interesting to see uhin the behavior, in the
sentiment of the of the user,those is that suddenly he
understands that uh that someonelistened to him.
So I can experience an emotionand someone is listening to him.

(03:53:12):
But when it comes to book atravel, and this is very
important, trust will win.
They coming back to the brand,they're coming back to speak to
someone, and there's so muchthings happening around the
world that something's gonnahappen with your flight, there's
a big change, something's gonnahappen, something gonna happen
maybe with the hotel orwhatever.

(03:53:32):
I want to speak to someone, andthat is a sentiment that we're
seeing more and more people wantthis connection when it comes to
book a travel.
Different from a lot of thingson out there in e-commerce,
travel stays a human business.

SPEAKER_10 (03:53:48):
Yeah, and you know what's I couldn't agree more
with that sentiment because thatis literally the angle for our
summit later this year aboutbeyond AI and where humans are
still relevant, because that'sthe question that a lot of us
have been asking ourselves andeach other is where is the human
role in travel if a lot of thisis being automated?
And so um uh I'm sure a lot ofpeople have been intrigued by

(03:54:09):
our conversation.
I've mentioned the website,wearemove.ai, but I want to make
sure that people can connectwith you either on LinkedIn or
email or and also reach out tothe team.
So, what would be the best waysfor our listeners to do that?

SPEAKER_20 (03:54:21):
So uh uh either on LinkedIn, uh so uh you can reach
out my LinkedIn eresbuster or uhanywhere in the team.
If you go to the website, youcan also uh reach out through uh
through uh the website.
But always LinkedIn has become agreat place to communicate and
so on and to exchange and to uhso uh happy to uh to connect

(03:54:44):
with anyone that is interestingto join our journey.

SPEAKER_10 (03:54:47):
Awesome, and just for everyone's for spelling,
eres is er-e-z, as I'm Canadian,so I say Z or American Americans
is e.
B, and then his last name isB-O-U-S-S-O.
So Erez Busso.
And um uh I definitely will bekeeping in touch for sure.
It's a real pleasure to meet youhere because it's the first time
that Erez and I have had achance to uh to meet, get to
know each other.
I've had a chance to meet someof his team members, and um

(03:55:09):
certainly intrigued by what youdo, and I wish you every success
in the year ahead and enjoy therest of the conference.
Thank you very much.
Let's enjoy Barcelona.
Thank you.
Indeed, ciao.
My next guest is the ChiefMarketing and Communications
Officer for Data Appeal,Mabrian, which he worked at

(03:55:30):
Mabrian.
The companies have now beenmerged.
We're gonna get a bit of thebackstory on that and what
brings him here.
But he's been to the Focus Rightconference for many years, and
he's well known to many peoplein the travel industry.
And I would now like tointroduce uh Carlos Sendra.
Welcome to the Travel TrendsPodcast.

SPEAKER_22 (03:55:48):
Thank you, Dan.
Thank you for having us.
For sure, yes.

SPEAKER_10 (03:55:50):
So tell everyone about Data Peel and Mabrian,
these two companies and how theycame together.

SPEAKER_22 (03:55:54):
Well, actually, we we are uh integrating both
companies.
Both of us were uh working inthe in the data ecosystem for
travel and tourism.
Uh, in the case of Mabrian, weare very much focalized in
destinations globally, and uhData Peel was working with
destinations and and companies.
So what we we we are doing nowis is just integrating our

(03:56:17):
capabilities in order to have abroader uh scope in in the world
and and extending our ourservices uh worldwide.

SPEAKER_10 (03:56:26):
Well, I know these two companies were doing
something similar, and as youwere just explaining before, we
had a chance to sit down andrecord together that uh the data
appeal is based in Italy.
And based on one of the mostbeautiful parts of the world,
Menorca, and so which isactually a big hub for travel
and technology, which I'verecently kind of un uh
uncovered.
I know there's a lot of travelcompanies based there.

SPEAKER_22 (03:56:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
And I always say that probablythat's the foundation and why we
decided to go for tourism whendecided to create a company uh
that will uh basically uhdevelop big data analytics and
and AI back in in 2013.
So it's been 13 years nowdeveloping our own AI

(03:57:08):
algorithms, uh which seems to benew, but it's not.
Um so I always say that the thefact of being born in a very
touristic place like theBalleric Island and Spain uh
probably made us to decide to gofor tourism where there was a
lack of evidence-based decisionmaking.

SPEAKER_10 (03:57:29):
And so it's really interesting because you're nine
years that you're a Mabrian, andnow it's just been the last uh
few months these companies havecome together.
Um what was the background onMabrian as a company?

SPEAKER_22 (03:57:38):
Yeah, well, Mabrian actually was the one born in
2013.
And we start by doing sentimentanalysis, uh basically using uh
big data that we pull fromsocial networks in order to
interpret the spontaneousconversations of travelers to
understand global travel trendsand trying to predict those

(03:58:00):
trends and help destinations andcompanies as well to know better
what's going on on the traveland tourism sector globally.

SPEAKER_10 (03:58:08):
And then the data appeal as a standalone business,
how did that differ from Mabrianand then just connect the dots
as far as why they came togetherlike this?

SPEAKER_22 (03:58:16):
That's that's a very good question because they did
something similar.
I mean, they were very muchspecialized as well in traveler
sentiment, but the startingpoint was different.
Uh in Mary, we start from thetraveler, and in data appeal,
they start from the point ofinterest.
What does that mean?
What they did is mapping allkinds of um points of interest

(03:58:38):
that have a relation with thetourism.
I mean, from uh let's saycritical infrastructures like
airports, uh hotels, short-termrentals, but even hospitals,
restaurants, anything, museums,anything related to tourism.
And from those, let's say,physical spots, they track all

(03:58:58):
the digital traces that they canget from more than 100 different
review sources in order to getthe sentiment of all travelers
interacting with those points ofinterest.
In Mavericks was the different,I mean the starting point was
the the the traveler, and sowe've we found each other in the
middle and we complement a loteach other in in the analytics

(03:59:21):
we can do.

SPEAKER_10 (03:59:21):
And now the data appeal, we mentioned uh Italy,
but specifically Florence, andfor those people who are uh
multitasking while having thisconversation, it is dataapeal.io
is the main website.
Tell us a little bit more aboutwhat brings you to FocusRight
this year.
Because obviously you've beenhere before, but obviously
you're now wearing kind of twohats as one with you know Data
Appeal and Mabrian.

(03:59:42):
Tell us a little bit, and I knowyou work closely with
FocusRight, but yeah, tell us alittle bit what brought you here
this year.

SPEAKER_22 (03:59:47):
Well, for us, uh being being in FocusRight is is
very important.
First, to be update on theinnovation in in the travel tech
sector where we are, uh and alsobecause of being uh partner of
this event is very relevant interms of uh, let's say,
visibility and relevance for forour brand, right?

(04:00:08):
I mean, we even though we workspecifically mainly with
destinations, we are veryinterested in being um identify
as an innovation company, andFocusRight for sure can bring us
that that positioning.

SPEAKER_10 (04:00:23):
Yeah, and that's this is where you're also a
partner.
Yeah, I know you know a lot ofresearch and reporting, which is
what Focus Right is known for.
And coming to a conference likethis, that's what most people
are going into sessions lookingfor data insights that they can
act on.
And so that's one of the thingsI'm keen to ask you about in a
moment is some of the trendsthat you're seeing across the
industry.
But before we move on to that,tell us a little bit more about

(04:00:43):
Focus Right Europe this year andsome of the either the sessions
you've been involved in or someof the things that you are
looking to share and showcasewhy you're here.

SPEAKER_22 (04:00:51):
Yeah, as always, the the event is I mean, the content
on the event is very, very wellcurated.
And and so far the sessions I'vebeen participating has been
really interesting.
I've been even participating inuh in a round table as as a
speaker, uh, where we weretalking about uh the importance
of the experiences on thedecision making process of the

(04:01:14):
travelers today.
So how the uh experience drivedecision making for the traveler
now is is is basic, right?
And how the tourism uh decisionshave moved from uh something
more, let's say more static uhvacation to more experiential um
traveling, right?

(04:01:34):
And and I mean with companieswith uh like Civitatis and and
many others that are reallyengaged on that segment.

SPEAKER_10 (04:01:42):
And I unfortunately didn't have the chance to attend
your session.
I was doing another panel at thesame time, because it's four
different things, and this iswhat the reality of a conference
like this that so many thingsare happening at the same time,
you've got to make a decision.
And the roundtables I reallyenjoyed because they're so
interactive and people can askquestions.
Um, tell us a little bit morehow yours went today and what
were some of the outcomes ofthat.

SPEAKER_22 (04:02:00):
session yeah in fact uh I'm it was full full session
I mean um was was packed of ofattendees and was as you
mentioned was very interactiveso everyone had um uh an opinion
and and was nice we also toggledthe the the matter of the over
tourism and how experiences canalso help destinations to manage

(04:02:22):
that challenge right uh and wewe also got with with us uh
responsibles for the CataloniaTourism Board where Barcelona is
based and and how they areobviously facing these kind of
challenges not now but for someyears now and it was really
really interesting how uh bothpublic segment but also private

(04:02:43):
uh segment attendees werediscussing and interchanging
their their opinions.

SPEAKER_10 (04:02:48):
Yeah that's great and for me that's one of the
main benefits of being at aconference like this is the the
interactions that you can havewith senior executives and key
decision makers that obviouslyyou're trying to get access to
in the outside world you come toa conference like this and next
thing you know you're in thesame room together.
One of the things I'd love foryou to be able to share with our
listeners too is some of the bigtrends that you're focusing on

(04:03:11):
and to help kind of guide ourlisteners where the industry's
headed.
So tell us a little bit as we'rehaving this conversation it is
June 2026 to timestamp it.
Obviously we can't uh predictvarious events that are
happening around the world orswirling around us but in terms
of the the main trends you'refocusing on this year and what
what are you seeing fromconsumer sentiment?
What are you seeing withbusinesses?

SPEAKER_22 (04:03:32):
Where where do you think we are right now in um the
travel industry well in terms ofglobal trends we we just
launched uh a couple of days agouh an a global analysis on the
on the travel trends and how thedemand is moving uh globally for
this summer 2026 where we canhighlight for example the the

(04:03:54):
specific uh good momentum of ofEurope and southern Europe in
terms of gathering all thatdemand that may be diverted from
other regions of the world dueto uh the I mean the current
situation the geopoliticalsituations that is affecting not
only Middle East but even a lotof destinations in in Asia South

(04:04:16):
Asia since uh the connectivityis very much related to that to
that area and and some of thelet's say most important markets
for those destinations are inEurope so uh the divert of uh
that demand is is is affectingpositively to the south of
Europe for example also we cantalk how uh North America is

(04:04:37):
performing really well duringthe summer thanks to a huge
event which is the World Cup uhwhich is obviously bringing a
lot of demand for that but thenwe can see also uh uh pretty
optimistic figures for LatinAmerica uh since we are seeing
how some destinations are nowtaking off in terms of

(04:04:58):
international demand and jumpingfrom basically regional or the
domestic demand to to a broaderuh let's say scope.

SPEAKER_10 (04:05:06):
So I want to actually ask you a bit about the
World Cup and sports tourism.
We just did a recent episode onour regular season seven podcast
about sports tourism in 2026 andit got a lot of interest and
attention we had Expedia as partof it home fans and a colleague
of mine Azaz Sheikh who's done alot of work in sports tourism
and he's an avid football fanand so we we created this

(04:05:29):
episode and I think it has hugepotential to become a a
standalone series becausethere's so many people that are
interested in sports tourism.
Tell us a little bit about thatmarket especially World Cup and
what you're seeing as far aspeople actually being uh
deciding to travel for sportingevents.

SPEAKER_22 (04:05:46):
Yeah I mean uh events itself is it's a it's an
engine for traveling so a greatmotivation and we have many
studies published regarding howevents can really help
destinations to drive demand butnot only for international
markets but also for thedomestic which is for example
the case of the World Cup uh 80%of the demand for the World Cup

(04:06:10):
uh in the hosting countries uhUS Canada and Mexico will be
from domestic market and that'ssomething that is very relevant
uh to to to comment on since uhwe are talking about huge
markets specifically the in thecase of the US uh even though
the the the soccer is is kind ofuh gaining fans in in the

(04:06:33):
country is still not uh in thetop three probably sports but
this is gonna be a boost for allthe cities hosting games uh for
all that domestic traveling thatuh probably will enhance a lot
the the tourism industry in thatin that in that in that places
but also in Mexico we've seensomething very similar Mexico is

(04:06:55):
a is a very populated countryand they are probably uh more
into soccer or football and thanthe the US uh and and yeah I
mean we're seeing a a huge umtrend of demand from from the
domestic markets even thoughthere is obviously a lot of uh
international demand as wellyeah well I'm I'm certainly

(04:07:17):
excited to continue to followthat sector and you're right
about events I mean last year itwas all about Taylor Swift and
the Swift effect right of eventsand so people are definitely
traveling for events people aretraveling for festivals you know
the there's all these littleniches but they add up and some
of them are substantial markets.

SPEAKER_10 (04:07:33):
So sports tourism is definitely a um a big focus is
there any other kind ofcategories that you would
highlight to our listeners thatthey should be paying attention
to in terms of what consumersare choosing today and as far as
travel any other kind of bigshifts in consumer behavior?

SPEAKER_22 (04:07:49):
Yeah uh for example we we just did uh uh research uh
along with Focus Right uh awhite paper for for this event
together regarding how the uhprofile of the Europeans
Europeans is is shifting is isswitching uh when traveling to
the US and we what we found outis is how the interest for the

(04:08:11):
active and natural related uhactivities is increasing um the
constantly since in some yearsnow in fact what we did in in
this report is comparing 2023 to2025 and one of the conclusions
was yeah that that growing trendfor looking um off the path

(04:08:33):
destinations related to natureuh experiential destinations um
very much related to greatlandscapes that we don't have in
Europe for example uh since weare talking about the European
markets also uh we highlightedsomething very interesting
related to the perception of thecountry uh since uh probably we

(04:08:56):
are now immersed in a stagewhere the perception of the
country from Europe is key inorder to really tackle that that
potential demand from thedifferent European markets we we
need to remind that uh I meanEurope is very heterogeneous in
terms of of profiles even thoughit's a small territory so it

(04:09:17):
that's that's something veryrelevant to keep in mind for the
destinations uh in the US inorder to really provide uh what
what the the potential travelersin Europe may may look for.
And how is there a way that ourlisteners can get access to that
report?
Is it on your website or is itit is it in our website and also

(04:09:38):
Focus Right is gonna share it.

SPEAKER_10 (04:09:39):
Fantastic tell us a little bit about I've got kind
of two final questions here foryou uh in terms of uh the
company and where you guys areheaded over the next six to
twelve months tell us a littlebit more about I know it's new
the merger and the companiescoming together but uh where are
you guys headed and and what aresome of the main developments
you're focusing on?

SPEAKER_22 (04:09:59):
In fact one of the strategic visions for us is um
and and I I can summarize thatin in one sentence which is no
data, no AI.
And that doesn't mean we don'tbet for AI that would be very
silly from our side I mean we'vebeen developing our AI
algorithms for a long time weare a lot into agentic AI

(04:10:22):
development now but what werealize is that uh this kind of
technology is going to be acommodity uh sooner than than
later and all that will besenseless if cannot be uh fitted
by the correct data soaccessibility and creation of

(04:10:43):
data would be key in order tofit all those systems and have
uh a good outcome of all thatright so we we are pretty much
uh focusing on how we can be themost specialized company in
terms of tourism data in orderto feed and train all those
systems that can be B2C or evenB2B uh to provide with uh

(04:11:08):
accuracy of data andaccessibility of data.

SPEAKER_10 (04:11:12):
Fascinating and one of the things I wanted to ask
you and I've only asked oneother guest this but I feel like
it's a question that you're wellpositioned to uh theorize on
which is when we get togetherthis time next year in London
that's obviously where the uhconference is moving next year
if there was a topic you thinkwe're gonna be talking about a
year from now what would youpredict that's gonna be one of

(04:11:34):
the main themes of the 2027Focus Right year of conference I
guess we'll we'll be inautomatation I mean uh in all
those seamless processes uh thatuh agencai will be probably uh a
reality within the next 12months yeah yeah yeah it's
interesting that that's um uh Iagentic AI it's one of the

(04:11:59):
questions that people wereasking you about dinner last
night what do you think thebreakthrough technology is
what's gonna happen and thereality is is that agentic AI
eventually the dam will breakpeople will start booking with
agentic AI and it's gonna be uhan uncertain and exciting time
for the industry to see exactlyhow that plays out and so um I
think that's a great uhprediction uh but let's make
sure that all of our listenerscan connect with you learn more

(04:12:21):
about the company follow up ifthey want to partner with you
obviously I've mentioned thewebsite uh but carlos what would
be some of the other ways forpeople to reach out to you or
the team well but you can youcan find me on LinkedIn we can
you can find me also in inix uhby my name is Carlos Sendra.

SPEAKER_22 (04:12:39):
My surname I can spell it uh I mean it's it's
actually it's not even Spanishit's Catalan uh I I'm born in in
an island here in in Spain wherewe speak Catalan as well so my
surname is C-E-N-D-R-I-A.
So uh happy to connect with witheverybody and and and chat and

(04:13:00):
and catch up for for trends fortechnology and for all that uh
joins here together.

SPEAKER_10 (04:13:06):
Awesome well gracias Carlos it's really great to
speak to you I'm glad that wehad a chance to uh to meet here
at the conference and I'm reallyintrigued to see how everything
goes as the companies cometogether and what the potential
is and speaking again next yearor before but great to meet you
and good luck with the rest ofthe conference.
Thank you very much Dan thankyou for having us our next guest

(04:13:27):
is Brooke Gilbertson and she isthe head of content and
conference manager for WorldTravel Market and Arabian Travel
Market the travel marketconferences.
Brooke it's great to have you onthe Travel Trends podcast here
at the Focus Right conference.

SPEAKER_09 (04:13:42):
Thanks for joining us thank you so much for having
me.

SPEAKER_10 (04:13:45):
It's a pleasure well it's perfect timing for you
being here obviously as we're uhat the Focus Right conference in
Barcelona you being based inLondon and one of the privileges
I've had over the last two yearsis to speak at WTM and it's been
a huge highlight for me.
So I just want to start byacknowledging that and saying
thank you again for thoseincredible opportunities and
what a fan I am of World TravelMarket.

SPEAKER_09 (04:14:07):
Of course no it's always it's always a highlight
uh we always have you kind ofleading on our marketing summit
so uh thank you for always beinga participant and I'm looking
forward to the next one.

SPEAKER_10 (04:14:16):
Yeah no I'm excited about that as well so we'll
we'll make sure that uh we dofinish with that because we want
to make sure all of ourlisteners plan to to join us
there as well and interestinglyfocus right is bringing their
event next year to London and soFocus Right Europe will be in
London as well.
Everything seems to be happeningin London is like uh I was born
in the UK as many of ourlisteners know and I love
traveling to England.

(04:14:36):
Um but let's talk about whatbrings you here to Focus Right
Barcelona.
So tell us a little bit moreabout uh the the the reasons for
you coming to this conference.

SPEAKER_09 (04:14:45):
Of course well I'm just here to absorb all the
knowledge uh I want to learn alot more about the travel
industry travel tech is such anintricate uh uh part of the
travel ecosystem um and a lot ofuh parts of it are quite
fragmented so I'm just here toreally absorb learn educate
myself and just really to hearwhat's happening in the industry

(04:15:06):
what pain points there are andmaybe if there are any
opportunities that we can uhfulfill with our content.

SPEAKER_10 (04:15:11):
Yeah for sure and so tell us I'd love to hear some of
the highlights I mean we'vecaught up over the last couple
of days so it's been great tosee you and and have some time
to chat together and I knowyou've been in and out of lots
of sessions.

SPEAKER_09 (04:15:22):
What have been some of the highlights and takeaways
for you I think the I mean Ijust came out of a session about
agentic commerce and I thinkthat the the key thing we're
looking at there is that theconsumer side and the business
side are very different, right?
Consumers are lacking the trustin agentic AI uh and the
businesses want to startimplementing it.
So how do we bridge that gap?

(04:15:42):
How do we really facilitate atrusting environment on the web?
Do we have the kind of humanfirst web pages?
Do we have the agent first webpages?
How do we deliver SEO for thosekinds of things and how is that
going to look in the future?
And it's kind of justmind-boggling right now because
businesses don't know how tofill the gaps a cut consumers
don't know if they're gonna filluh if they're gonna feel the

(04:16:05):
trust to use their agent to booktheir holidays for them.
So where we're gonna be I don'tknow.

SPEAKER_10 (04:16:10):
Yeah well and that's that's the beauty of these
conferences.
I one of the things that I loveabout Focus Right conferences is
all of the content that theyproduce because obviously at the
core of their business modelthey're a research company and
that this is what I would alwayscome to a conference like Focus
Right for was to learn so Icould go back and apply that in

(04:16:31):
my executive role in a travelcompany.
For me the networking was alwayssecondary because I never was
really focused on businessdevelopment but obviously that
is another big reason thatpeople come to the event like
this.
What do you think from yourvantage point?
Because it's really interestinghaving this conversation with
you because World Travel Marketis an incredible conference and
it's very special and it's verydifferent than focus right.

(04:16:53):
And so you know there is someoverlap potentially in terms of
the the individuals um thatmight attend both conferences
but they they each sit in theirown very unique niche.
And so what what would be thewhen you look at focus right
coming to a conference like thisum what do you think is unique
about the con the focus rightexperience?

SPEAKER_09 (04:17:12):
I think from from my perspective coming to focus
right is the people in the roomright you have so many investors
here and you know I have hadmeetings with people that
founded companies or soldcompanies like Viator and things
like that and I'm just kind ofin awe of the audiences here
whether you're just grabbinglunch and you sit down and you
find out okay this guy was onthe board for Expedia or

(04:17:35):
whatever and it's just like youyou don't get access to those
people anywhere but here rightand I think the with WTM I am
able to curate content to helpyou know build the build the
ecosystem in a better way rightand I think the what I'm trying
to deliver at WTM puts me in aunique position because I get to

(04:17:56):
try and solve the problems withcontent.
And I think that we have more ofa standpoint on getting maybe
the people on the ground on thestage the people that are doing
uh doing the things that they'retalking about rather than
getting those C-suites in we'regetting the people that are
actually actioning uh change.
So that that's what I think ismaybe the unique difference

(04:18:17):
between the two.

SPEAKER_10 (04:18:18):
Yeah no I couldn't agree with you more because you
know Focus Right USA has alwaysbeen one of my favorite travel
industry conferences because itcombines the senior executives
the decision makers with also aUS scale of you know about a
thousand to fifteen hundredattendees being here in Europe
last year for the first time theone thing that I thought was

(04:18:38):
really cool about this event isit's more about 500 it's more
like 500 attendees so it's moreintimate but you get actually in
many ways better access toindividuals like Chris Hemeter
from Thayer Ventures for examplein the US sort of behind a
velvet rope doing doing dealshere he's wandering around the
room and chatting with peopleand and as you mentioned Rod

(04:18:58):
Cuthbert from Viator there isyou know the the people around
the room here are uh seniorleaders with incredible
experience uh but they're veryaccessible um but let on that
note let's talk about worldtravel market and I mean world
travel market for the last fewyears I had not been before and
like it's it was eye-opening forme the scale of a world travel

(04:19:19):
market um for anyone who's notfamiliar so WTM.com for anyone
who wants to multitask whilewe're in this conversation to
learn about WTM London theArabian travel market you also
have Latin America and Africanow as well um and you continue
to expand Riyadh India like it'sreally incredible to see the um
the scale and growth of theconferences you guys run but

(04:19:40):
obviously WTM London isparticularly special as well
because this was this is this isyour largest conference and so
tell everyone for anyone that'snot familiar that's listening to
this a bit of background on WTMLondon and that conference
itself.

SPEAKER_09 (04:19:54):
Yeah WTM London is the flagship for all of the WTM
brands and it is you know we seeover 5000 people come through
these doors across three daysand the people that come are
travel buyers sellers exhibitorsyou know it's a trade show first
and foremost right my role sitswithin the content and all of
the conferencing that's thesecondary part of the show the

(04:20:16):
main part of the show peoplethrough those doors will be
making meetings with the likesof Emirates, you know, they'll
be coming to meet Hilton they'llbe making business deals on the
show floor.
The amount of MOUs that getsigned there is just insane you
know the business deals you seeit was quite quite funny really
um my parents live in SouthAfrica they had a um local

(04:20:37):
newspaper and in the localnewspaper it was announcing a
new flight path uh from CapeTown to Brazil somewhere in
Brazil I think they took apicture of it and then sent it
to me and I was like yeah thatwas a World Travel Market.
That deal got signed while Iwork and I think that that just
was like one of those momentsfull circle really my parents
were like out in South Africaseeing all these business deals
being done in a local newspaperthat were happening on the show

(04:21:00):
floor at London.

SPEAKER_10 (04:21:01):
Yeah it's amazing I mean just the scale 500 people
here 5000 uh WTM and that youknow the tourism boards from
around the world that cometogether for the conference the
exquisite uh trade show booththat they put together all the
different events over the courseof that week it really has
become you know the a landmarkweek the first week of November
and you guys always carve outthat time November 3rd to 5th

(04:21:24):
let's tell everyone what youhave in store for this year.
What are some of the plans giventhat you know here we are having
this conversation in June manypeople listening to this in July
and August so it's coming upquickly.

SPEAKER_09 (04:21:34):
What are some of the uh themes for this year and the
the plans for the conferenceyeah so flash off the press we
have opened registration so ifyou want to go onto the website
WTM London go ahead make yourbooking we are ready and waiting
for everyone to get theirtickets which is exciting um
there's a lot of change and alot of transition that's
happening this year.

(04:21:55):
I think the one of the mostexciting things is that we're
partnering with Wonderlust whoare leading on our headliner
stage and we have got aninterview with some Michael
Palin happening.

SPEAKER_10 (04:22:03):
So that's very exciting legendary love Michael
Palin.
Yeah love Monty Python and lovethat he went on to do travel and
travels around the world I'm ahuge fan yeah that's really
cool.

SPEAKER_09 (04:22:13):
Exactly and so we bring voices like that to the
stage and on our headliner stagebut we've also kind of had the
opportunity to transition whatwe're doing on the other stages.
And I think that what I'm mostexcited for is the ability to
have these peer-to-peerconversations, facilitating
networking and making it feel abit more like this kind of event
where these people in the roomare the decision makers and you
have access to them.

(04:22:33):
And you know we've got thefuture stage which is our travel
tech stage we've got the um thetrend stage where we're gonna
have bite-sized 15-minutepresentations of all the crazy
travel trends, all the fads,what's gonna be the biggest
trend we're seeing for Gen Alphamaybe you know food tourism,
things like that.
And then our final stage isgoing to be an experience hub.
And I wanted to kind of get ridof the name stage.

(04:22:55):
I want it to be a hub becauseit's gonna be for community it's
gonna be for networking we'regonna address uh conversations
such as uh sustainability, DNI,you know, at the core what we're
trying to do is really give thethe community the travel
community what they want um andlisten to their wants and needs
and just fulfill that throughthe content.

SPEAKER_10 (04:23:13):
Yeah I'm so excited I'm looking forward to being
back and obviously it's uh it'smarked on my calendar as it is
for uh many of our listenersbecause uh last year was
particularly special for us Iknow you uh made some
adjustments to the conferenceschedule to shift to make sure
that everyone attended the lastday and so you know the first
two days are super busy and thenlike any conference you know the

(04:23:34):
third day does start to thin outand you guys made some really
successful changes and I wasreally proud to be a part of
that because and I was nervousat first because you had moved
uh my session with Matthew tothe uh the the Thursday and
towards the end of the day and Iwas so thrilled that we were it
was sold out it was at capacitypeople were still lined up to
get in like the year beforethere was about 150 people that

(04:23:56):
couldn't get into our sessionand it was a real thrill for me
to see that listeners to ourPodcasts, people just interested
in the subject matter we weregoing to be talking about.
And so um I know we have plansto collaborate again this year,
which we'll be sure to announceto our listeners in the uh the
near future.
Um, but one other thing weshould mention too is that
before WTM you have ArabianTravel Market that's actually in

(04:24:18):
September in Dubai.
Tell everyone a little bit aboutthat.

SPEAKER_09 (04:24:21):
Yeah, so ATM again, it's it's a global event.
It's based in Dubai because ofcourse the Middle East is such
an emerging market and adestination that everyone wants
to get investment in or from.
Um and I think that it is verymuch on the same scale as WTM
now.
We're seeing around 50,000 uh atthat event.
It's a four-day event though, sothere is an additional day on

(04:24:41):
that.
Um, and we we do a lot of stuffaround, you know, the global
growth um within the industry.
Uh we we try to spotlight thingssuch as sustainability again
because they're such cool partsof uh the region.
Um but we also have um somereally uh strong kind of support
from the likes of the UNtourism, for example, because

(04:25:02):
they want to really bring thecommunities together within the
Middle East and just to reallyshare the message that, you
know, travel is still comingback.
There's gonna be a reallyresilient uh region and there's
gonna be a massive boom there.
So how do we build thefoundations for that boom again?
You know, and it's this is oneof our, I mean, it's a
long-standing show.
It's been going for over 30years and it's been growing and

(04:25:23):
growing and growing.
And I think, you know, ATM andWTM are both pretty much, you
know, the same scale, veryinternational, and I think just
very exciting places.
And you'll see when you get toATM, hopefully one time, um, the
scale of the the stands are justeven more impressive.

SPEAKER_10 (04:25:40):
Yeah, no, I can't wait to get there.
And um, I mean, and this iswhere, given my experience at
WTM London, I've got a greatrespect and affinity for WTM and
the conferences you hold, andthe fact you're continuing to
expand them globally is reallyexciting, especially to places
like Latin America that I reallythink have such an exciting
future.

(04:26:00):
Because as we've highlighted onthe opening of this episode, we
have Sueon joining us for whoruns Webin travel.
And we were talking about therise of regional travel.
Um, one of the areas in theworld that's seeing a
significant increase in regionaltravel is Latin America, people
traveling around Latin America,um, not just inbound into Latin
America.

(04:26:20):
So there's all these fascinatingtrends, and I know obviously
you'll be talking about Arabiantravel markets, another uh area
that there's a lot of regionaltravel.
And so um tell us a little bitinto uh as far as the future of
WTM, some of those additionalconferences you're expanding to.
And then I'm I know I'vementioned the website, but I'd
love for all of our listeners toknow how to get involved and to

(04:26:41):
be able to reach out and connectwith you too, Brooke.

SPEAKER_09 (04:26:43):
Of course, yeah.
So we've got our WTM Spotlightevents, uh, one of which will be
in Briyad uh a few weeks beforeATM, and the other one will be
um in India.
Um, and these are just reallyexciting emerging markets, and
they're opportunities to againconnect with the region.
And like you say, regionaltourism is so important, and we
facilitate connections for thecommunities, we facilitate

(04:27:04):
connections between all of thetravel and tourism ecosystem.
So if we we hope that theseevents can expand and you know
be as successful as our largerevents, but also to to really
fill that gap and to to enableuh a growth for the tourism
industry in these regions,right?
That's what we do.
We're in the business ofbuilding businesses, you know.
That's that's the core part ofwhy you come to these shows.

(04:27:27):
And so these new launches arereally exciting for us because
we can help rebuild the travelindustry in those areas.

SPEAKER_10 (04:27:32):
Fantastic.
Yeah, and so and just to just tofinish off, because obviously,
Brooke, it's great to get thistime with you.
Wonderful to see you here uh atFocus, right?
Um, if people want to reach outto you, obviously you're active
on LinkedIn.
Um, and WTM.com is the main hub.
Is there any other ways thatpeople should be aware of to uh
to get in touch or tocollaborate with you guys?

SPEAKER_09 (04:27:51):
I think the best way is always through web.
As I was saying uh right at thebeginning, are we gonna be going
through a dental commerce?
Maybe, maybe I'll have an agentone day that you can contact me
through.
Um, but no, no, so far,LinkedIn, website, straight in
there.
Um, and yeah, I'll I'll bethere.
Um best person to speak toaround, you know, connecting on

(04:28:12):
topic areas and new ideas.
I'm always open to a new idea.
I think that's what I'm reallyexcited about because I have an
opportunity to transform thingsand change things and hopefully
push the industry forward in anew way.
Um so yeah, connect, reach out.
Uh my inbox is open.

SPEAKER_10 (04:28:28):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that.
Um I I couldn't agree morebecause uh I love LinkedIn, but
the messages I get, I havestruggled to keep up, as some of
my listeners may know.
And uh once a month I go throughall of my LinkedIn messages and
I just ask everyone to pleaseemail me, just carry it over to
a platform that I can bettertrack and monitor.
And so uh one of the agenticsolutions for sure is I need to

(04:28:49):
automate that inbox.
So that's a great reminder andsuggestion.
Um, and will be great for bothof us because I know how busy
you are and how successful thisconference is.
And so, Brooke, I look forwardto seeing you again in November,
keeping in touch before.
I know we're planning to do anuh event preview episode, so
we'll uh share that with ourlisteners as well so you can
learn more before the eventabout what you should do and

(04:29:12):
some of the um the importantdevelopments and uh focuses and
sessions and speakers and andpartners.
So, Brooke, wonderful to see youhere in person.
Safe travels home and lookforward to keeping in touch.

SPEAKER_09 (04:29:24):
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_10 (04:29:27):
Our next guest is CeeDee Lazier, who is the
managing director of TripAd.
He was also in my panel sessionyesterday, and it was fantastic
to have him in the room.
He asked some really fascinatingquestions and he also made the
audience really laugh.
So it's great to have him aspart of that ground
transportation conversation.
Uh, we've gotten a chance toknow each other over the last
couple of conferences.
So, CeeDee, it's great to seeyou again.

(04:29:47):
Thanks for joining us for thepodcast.

SPEAKER_06 (04:29:49):
Hi, good afternoon.

SPEAKER_10 (04:29:50):
Tell everyone about Tripad and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_06 (04:29:53):
So, TripAd is an ancillaries marketplace.
We came about during COVID whenour sister company Blue Ribbon
Bags, which is a delayed luggagecrisis concierge sold in lots of
online travel agencies, wasapproached by many of our
clients to ask us what else wedo, because they're desperate
for ancillary revenue.

(04:30:14):
And at the time, my colleaguesRobert, Daniel, Diego, myself
would answer, that's all we do,we find lost luggage.
And the pushback was prettyintense.
Come on, guys, look at yourLinkedIn profile.
You've got 3,000 people, youknow all these suppliers, you
have to know someone.
And we realized that there was akind of a gap in the industry.

(04:30:36):
People are talking to eachother, but no one's actually
being a matchmaker or helpinganyone else get more revenue or
sell more things to thesuppliers.
So being a matchmaker is onething, but then are the
suppliers good suppliers and howdo we work with them?
So we've got multiple hats.
First, we've got to find thesuppliers, then we have to vet

(04:30:58):
them, negotiate with them,integrate them.
But once they're in our system,we're a one-stop shop of
ancillary revenue, which is usedby a bunch of people.

SPEAKER_10 (04:31:08):
Yeah, that's a part I was amazed, the scale of the
business.
And for uh our listeners, it'stripad.com.
Uh, tell us about those partnersand what brings you here to
FocusRate.
I know you've been to FocusRatefor many years, so you're a
familiar face, but tell us uhspecifically where wh why TripAd
here at FocusRate Europe 2026?

SPEAKER_06 (04:31:28):
So we've got quite a few suppliers who are
Europe-based, um, where it's theground transportation suppliers,
quite a few of them over here.
That was the panel that we wereon together yesterday, um, as
well as some tech suppliers,electronic SIM card suppliers,
lounge uh providers.
So I kind of come to FocusRiteEurope specifically to save

(04:31:52):
myself having to do 15 otherbusiness trips around Europe to
visit my suppliers becausethey're all coming here.
Yeah.
So part of it is a logisticsreason.
The other thing is um everyfocus right I go to, I have a
goal to find out what is underthe radar that I'm missing, or

(04:32:12):
what's the new trend, or whatare people speaking about that
they didn't speak about at theprevious conference?
And there's always something.
Is it a new supplier that we'vemissed?
Is it a new angle that we'vemissed?
Is it a new ancillary?
And so, besides for saving onthe business travel, um, I'm
always looking for like what'sthe next best thing, or what are

(04:32:34):
people talking about that we'vemissed?
So that's why I'm here.
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (04:32:39):
And um, in terms of blue ribbon, I also want to just
as a sister company.
You mentioned that becauseobviously you're still involved
with blue ribbon as well asTripAd.

SPEAKER_06 (04:32:48):
Yes, uh Blue Ribbon bags is still very much a
milking cow.
Um, luggage is not arriving atthe airport every single day.
Uh, any airport you land atanywhere in the world, there is
still a lost luggage counter.
That phenomena has notdisappeared despite air tags and
Samsung tags and everything.
People are still checking insuitcases, and some of them are

(04:33:10):
going on a more exciting tripthan the actual passenger.
So the Blue Ribbon Bags CrisisConcierge very much still
exists, and the service issought after by um tour
operators and online travelagencies the like, as well as
even some airlines and insurancecompanies, credit card issuers.
So that as a standalone businessexists, and there are still some

(04:33:33):
of our clients that that's allthey want.
And so it exists and we marketit.
Um, but Blue Ribbon Bags is alsoa supplier inside the TripAd
marketplace because there aresome of those, if you remember
what I said about COVID, thereare some of those online travel
agencies who have migratedentirely.
They said we want to keep BlueRibbon bags, we need a ton more.

(04:33:55):
So, how do we move to a systemthat can give us seven or eight
offers to the supplier at thesame time?

SPEAKER_11 (04:34:00):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:34:01):
Well, now I know you're super engaged in our
session, which again Iappreciate it because that was
the intention of, and youobviously have a lot of
experience and expertise in thatspace as well, yeah, given the
work that you do.
I'd love to hear some of yourother observations and insights
from other sessions you'veattended over the last couple of
days.

SPEAKER_06 (04:34:17):
Um, I definitely have noticed that I think it's
kind of a COVID lesson that wehad.
That in COVID, initiallyeveryone said that this is the
end of travel as we know it.
And there'll never be travelever again, and we recovered.
Yeah, yeah.

(04:34:38):
And then when everything starteduh going south in the Middle
East recently, everyone waslike, oh my god, Etihad,
Emirates, Oman Air, Gulf, Air,Kuwait Airlines are going to
shut down.
And my answer to that was justmake a cup of coffee.
People have to travel.
If you look at, for example, amarket that we're very engaged

(04:35:01):
in, Australia.
If I'm not mistaken, the averageAustralian has 30 paid vacation
days a year.
Maybe it's because they're sofar from everything and they
need to travel for so long.
People will travel.
We want to see things, we wantto explore places, we want to go
around.
Okay, so there's always thatinitial, oh my god, moment.

(04:35:21):
And then people are thirsty,people want to see places, they
want to experience new things.
Travel rebounds, and what I cameat least from the first day of
the W the wit part of this uhevent is people are optimistic,
and I think that it's it's allgonna bounce back.

(04:35:42):
Um, yeah, okay, so there willalways be the people I'm not
traveling via for the next Xamount of time, and then they'll
see a really, really goodbusiness class airfare on
Emirates, and they'll forgeteverything that they said, and
they're gonna be flying byDubai, or they'll be taking
advantage of the Etihad uhlayover program where they pay
for your hotel and whatnot.

(04:36:03):
So I think also a good thing isthat God gave us the ability to
forget and forgetfulness, and Ithink that uh people will get
over their I will never.
Um yeah, don't let's not saythat.
Yeah, people will, we'll getover everything.
And I I came out with a lot ofoptimism on that first day.
Um, so that was really somethingthat I'm glad that I came

(04:36:25):
earlier for the conference tosee that optimism, but I'm also
noticing um what the one thingthat I did notice is that fraud
is a very big discussion rightnow.
AI fraud, um, even physicalfraud in airports, um uh payment
fraud.
That is a very big topic ofdiscussion that I have noticed.

(04:36:47):
And I as I said, I come here tosee what people are talking
about.
And fraud is a big discussionthis this conference,
interestingly enough.

SPEAKER_10 (04:36:54):
Yeah, it's uh one of the uh guests that we actually
had runs um she heads uppartnerships for chargebacks
911.
And this is where people are nowprotesting their credit card
charges and sometimes um umdoing so fraudulently.
They've had a great trip, butthen they actually say they
didn't, and they let their cardsa charge back.
And it's interesting, these arethe things that clearly we're

(04:37:15):
starting to see more of in ourindustry.
And as you mentioned with AI,it's it's probably the gets the
least amount of coverage is thenegative impacts of AI,
including the ability now toimpersonate people's voices and
like so how difficult it is forbanks, let alone travel
companies, to try and know thatthey're dealing with the actual
customer and all of these newcases of fraud that find a big

(04:37:35):
industry like travel and kind ofgo after that for a period of
time.
So I think you're um you'reraising a port and warning flag
for our listeners, but whatwould you say people should be
doing about that?

SPEAKER_06 (04:37:46):
There's the always the dark side, unfortunately, of
every industry.
The travel industry, especiallythe hospitality industry, is
you're expecting the person tothe customer is always right,
you know, to smile at the guestthat comes to the front desk.
And I pray that it's not goingto be the guest is now under
suspicion at that front desk ofthe hotel.

(04:38:08):
I really hope the industrydoesn't go that way because
that's that would be sad, okay,because we still hope to get
that smiley face when we checkinto the airline or we check in
at the front desk.
Um, but I definitely if I'll usea classic example, is the entry
cards that you need to completedigitally, like for example, to

(04:38:30):
Bangkok.
Um, I strongly suggest that ifyou're not sure, if you've used
AI to ask what is the digitalentry card that I need to
complete, I actually think thatwhen it comes to things where
you need to put in your criticalpersonal data, your passport
details, etc., go to the embassywebsite and find the form there.

(04:38:54):
Don't do an AI search, don'trely on AI to tell you whether
you need a visa or not, becauseat least from what I'm seeing,
AI is out there to make you feelgood and happy and give you a
positive response, and it'lltell you, yeah, you don't need a
visa.
If you say, Do I not need avisa?
Yeah, I think you do not need avisa, as opposed to use a

(04:39:15):
company like Sherpa, forexample, or some of these
companies, that that is exactlywhat they do.
They'll tell you whether youneed a visa, or even go to the
website of that country and seethe direct um source.
Yes, it's a bit of extra work,but when it comes to a thing of
being denied entry into acountry because AI or ChatGPT
told you that you don't need avisa, uh that's not going to be

(04:39:38):
a very good experience.

SPEAKER_10 (04:39:40):
Yeah, for sure.
And this is yeah, it's reallyinteresting getting your
perspective on this because Iknow you work you grew up in
hospitality.
Like you have uh do you mindsharing that?
Because I thought it was reallyfascinating when you jumped into
the conversation yesterday.
Um, because someone whounderstands hospitality
understands customer service ina way that then translates to
the guest experience when youarrive at an airport.
So I'd love if you wouldn'tmind, CD, just sharing your

(04:40:03):
personal background in thetravel industry.

SPEAKER_06 (04:40:05):
So very interestingly, um I did live in
an actual hotel for a good fewyears of my childhood.
Um, rooms 406 through 410 of theBelmont Hotel in Seapoint Cape
Town was our family home.
Um we owned the building, andthat's where our dad decided the

(04:40:27):
fourth floor was a good place.
My grandmother was in room50502, and my other grandparents
were in suite 302.
Um we uh at some point my dadbought the house next door and
we moved out of the hotel.
But I did have an opportunity tofirsthand see how my father and
mother uh dealt with guests.

(04:40:48):
And yes, the customer is alwaysright, but sometimes you also
need to manage expectations.
But one thing I learned from mydad was especially when it was
repeat customers or an unknowncustomer, was I mean, in those
days it was a fax.
I remember when my dad got hisfirst fax with the rolls and the
thermal paper and the that typeof a thing.

(04:41:09):
Um, but my dad would ask a newcustomer, is there anything that
you need?
Is there any advice you need?
How are you getting to the hotelfrom the airport?
Questions like that, which waswhat's nowadays referred to as a
pre-alert.
Um, but in those, then it can beoften done via an app.
But my father would keep alittle profile um on the repeat

(04:41:34):
customers, remembering um theseare tea drinkers.
Make sure that we put lots oftea bags in the room, um, or
these are early risers and goout for a walk.
So to put like, well, in thosedays it was now it'd be a paper,
but those days it was still okayto have a styrofoam um cups in
the room because they like totake their coffee out with them,
um, or to ask them, are yourenting a car again?

(04:41:56):
Because he remembered theprevious time there was issues,
it's a bit of a narrowneighborhood, and there were
issues with parking, and try tosee if we could pre-and those
wasn't like major things and theperson could probably manage,
but if you could ask them inadvance to just have a quick
pre-trip, and that was somethingthat I learned and uh is
something that is still is a gapto this day in the hospitality

(04:42:17):
industry is that pre-arrivalquestionnaire, what time are you
arriving?
Room service is going to beclosed by the time you arrive.
Is there something from theattached PDF of our room service
menu that we could have in theroom for you?
I mean, that speaks that thatthat's massive.
That that that is uh can be areason why you'll come back to
hotel.
Just the fact that theypreempted your arrival, yeah,

(04:42:39):
which is a gap still to thisday.
And my dad was doing it manuallywith a pencil and a pen and a
fax machine back in the 1990s,and in 2026 we still have that
gap.

SPEAKER_10 (04:42:51):
Yeah.
Yeah, no, and and uh Iappreciate you sharing your
personal story and yourbackground because it is very
relevant to our conversation andto this event spotlight episode,
because at the end of the day,it does come back to the guest
experience, and what I mean bythat is the consumer.
What are the consumerexpectations?
What does the consumer want?
Who's taking care of the guest?
And hospitality has always had aspecial way of doing that to

(04:43:12):
really uh uh delight them andand uh make them feel incredibly
welcome and take care of everyneed.
And then also like early stagesof CRM, really understanding
their customers and and andensuring lifetime customer
value, they're coming back.
So all those principles ofrunning a successful hospitality
business in the 90s or beforeare so still very relevant
today.

(04:43:32):
Um but to fast forward to wherewe are now in Barcelona
together, uh, and to bring ourconversation back to TripAd, now
that people know yourbackground, um, tell us a little
bit more where the company isheaded.
And the reason I want to fastforward to that is because
clearly you're responding topartner interest, and partners
are responding to consumerrequests.
They have customers, there's anopportunity to generate more

(04:43:53):
revenue, and so you guys aregonna be continually under
pressure to do more, add more,add more partners.
So tell us what the plans are inthe next six months for Tripad.

SPEAKER_06 (04:44:02):
So we have from our sister company Plu Ribbon Bads a
lot of online travel agenciesand some airlines who so that's
a nice base of customers toconvert to the TripAd uh
marketplace and uh usage.
But the there's a lot of chatterin the industry of the online

(04:44:24):
travel agency is doomed, AI isgoing to take over, etc.
etc.
I don't know if I agree withthat, and I'm not 100% sure if
I'm ready to join thatconversation because I do know
that there are some onlinetravel agencies.
Look, for example, at uhtrip.com, who are actually not
seeing themselves anymore evenas an online travel agency.

(04:44:47):
Trip.com almost sees themselvesas a fintech company that sells
um concerts and events andhappens to also offer you a
flight afterwards.
Um so I'm not sure if the OTA isgoing, or the OTA is just um uh
redefining itself.
What's not going away is theairline's website, and people
there are going to still be alot of people that will book

(04:45:07):
directly on the airline, whetherthey are a uh frequent flyer,
they are a fan, they have got acompensation voucher.
They just it's easier for themto book on united.com or
whatever it is, and for thatreason, TripAd is very focused
on airlines not only, but we areQatar Airways uses the Tripad um

(04:45:32):
marketplace for its travelextras, and there are a few more
coming along, and so Airlines isdefinitely a place um uh that
we're looking at, um, as well ashotels have actually started
selling travel extras.
Why?
Because the hotels have realizedthat if a person is coming to

(04:45:53):
Marriott.com or to ihg.com andthey're holding their credit
card and they're booking ahotel.
Then why don't you sell them anairport transfer?
They have to get to the hotelsomehow.
For sure.
Marriott sells travel insurancenow.
People thought that that waswhy.
Because Marriott realized, well,they're gonna buy the insurance
somewhere else.
Well, they may we may as wellsell it.

unknown (04:46:15):
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_10 (04:46:16):
Yeah, really great perspectives.
And I, you know, I um for me incatching up with you, CD, I mean
you have your role at TripAd andBlue Ribbons, and um, but I
think you just add some reallyvaluable perspectives to the
industry.
And so one of the things I'dlike to ask you is I got one
more question for you, thenwe'll make sure that our
listeners can connect with youand follow up with you for both
business opportunities and alsojust uh uh to know you as a

(04:46:39):
voice of the industry.
But you highlighted some severalinteresting things in our
conversation.
Fraud was a great example ofthat, um, an AI fraud.
What else would you suggest thatour listeners be paying
attention to as far as thetrends you're seeing in the
global travel industry?
Uh you know, you mentionedobviously about the Middle East
and um uh that day one, whichand it was like Charlotte Lamp

(04:47:02):
Davies also mentioned, uh thereis a very optimistic view going
forward, and like you know, ifit does take, like Stuart
mentioned on this podcast aswell, 18 months to come back,
like it will come back.
Um but uh I would love to hearwhat else is top of mind for you
that you think our listenersshould be paying attention to.

SPEAKER_06 (04:47:22):
I actually think that there are so many places in
the world that are undiscoveredor underexplored, um uh and we
really should go out there andenjoy them, and if there is no
cell phone coverage over there,even better.
Um, despite growing up in SouthAfrica and knowing it pretty

(04:47:45):
well, we went last year inAugust to on a three-week
vacation.
Some places my wife and I hadbeen to, even some of my older
kids had been to, my youngesthad not.
But we specifically combinedwell-known to unknown places.
I asked some of the traveladvisors that I know in South

(04:48:05):
Africa, these are the areaswe're going to, but can you give
me some things that are not onTripAdvisor that AI is not going
to tell me a local business orlocal attraction that you local
people like to go to?
We landed up going horsebackaround riding for a whole
afternoon in an area where as akid I used to go to a summer

(04:48:29):
camp, but the summer campprobably just never turned left
at that junction because I'dnever explored those mountains
and those caves, and it wasabsolutely amazing.
And I think that like we shouldum in this digital age um we
should look out for well, wherecan I go that I can disconnect?

(04:48:52):
And you know what?
My teenagers who all have theirsmartphones and whatever, they
didn't complain.
Yeah, the first evening, oh theWi-Fi is a bit bad over here,
and they just got used to it.
And suddenly they were playingJenga, and suddenly they were in
the pool for double the timebecause they actually realize
it's not the end of the worldnot to be on their phone.
And so I really suggest go to aplace that you've never been to.

(04:49:15):
I want to go to Mongolia becausepeople say it's absolutely
amazing and unexplored, and it'sdefinitely on um uh my bucket
list uh to go to, and I thinkthat we should uh travel and
explore, but go off the beatentrack um uh and maybe even ask a
travel agent, actually one ofthose mom and pop shops, for

(04:49:38):
advice for a place that you havebeen to, and if there is good
food there, even better.
And if you can get involved inthe cooking of that food and
take the recipe home with you,you'll remember that more than
any digital experience.
And I actually think that thetrend, and I'm hearing so many
people talk about it over here,is the let's go back to basics

(04:49:58):
of basic simple travel without adigital influence, are the
things that we as adults and ourkids will remember way more than
any Facebook or TikTok post.

SPEAKER_10 (04:50:11):
I love everything you just said.
I will I love the fact that youare um uh uh very optimistic
about the places that are stillyet to be explored, and I
couldn't agree more becausethere's so much concern about
overtourism and people crowdingto the same places uh uh
throughout the same times of theyear.
But there's so many secondaryand tertiary destinations around
the world that are, you know,this whole idea of destination

(04:50:32):
dupes and like you know, there'sislands to explore in the
Philippines and Indonesia, andlike there's there's so much yet
to be explored.
And so uh the the there's that,first of all.
I do think 10 years from now,we're gonna be talking about a
whole list of differentdestinations that we're not even
speaking about today.
Oh, we don't even know what theyare yet.
Yeah, and that excites me agreat deal.
And the other thing youmentioned that I couldn't uh um

(04:50:55):
uh endorse more is theenthusiasm uh for a non-digital
travel experience.
I was we did this Agentic AI uhevent a couple of weeks ago in
Toronto.
Um there's a recording of it nowthat people can listen to out of
interest.
And the reason I mentioned it isbecause one of the questions
that came up that you can hearin the recording was around the

(04:51:16):
pushback against AI.
And I shared uh a thought aboutuh creating a trip to like
travel like it's 1995.
And uh I it was uh partially ajoke, but obviously partially
serious because I know what howspecial traveling was back then
when you you know it was theearly days of the internet, but
you still had to use a payphoneand a long distance phone card,

(04:51:37):
and you were forced to walk intohotels and see if they had
availability, and you weren'tyou know pre-booking anything
aside from you're showing up attrain stations.
And there was it was such anexciting time to be alive and to
be traveling.
And I think a lot of peoplestill want or would like to
travel like that.
And sure enough, the line of thenight became became let's travel
like it's 1995.
And it's interesting, here weare a few weeks later at a

(04:51:59):
conference, and it just showsyou that's the it's a it's a
human desire and a sentiment forput the phone down, be present,
it's appreciate yoursurroundings.
And it's um so thank you forsharing your perspective on
that.
Um, I do want to make sure allof our listeners can connect
with you, CD, since I'm surethey'll be intrigued from our
conversation, not only in termsof business opportunities for
TripAd, but again, just becauseyou are uh uh a great voice of

(04:52:23):
the industry.
So, what would be the best wayfor our listeners to connect
with you uh and seek out uhbusiness opportunities with
TripAd?

SPEAKER_06 (04:52:29):
It'll be around six o'clock in the morning.
I'll probably have just finishedmy run and I'm holding a cup of
coffee.
So if you see a dude like that,it might be me.
No, I mean that is true, but umthere are a few others like
that.
Um uh LinkedIn is a great place.
Uh C D lasier, so that would beLima Alpha Zulu Echo Alpha
Romeo.

(04:52:50):
That's me on LinkedIn.
Um, look up TripAd and you'llfind me under there as well.
Um, I do travel around quite abit.
I'm always happy to learn.
And one thing from my late uhstepdad from the hotel, one
thing that he told me um wasalways learn, don't stop
learning.

(04:53:10):
And I think that that is so soso critical.
Find a podcast, find someonethat is a source of information,
um, learn, explore, um, find outmore about the world.
Um, I know, Dan, I'm literallytelling people to listen to your
podcast.
So if you're already listening,well, there you go.
Um, and that's CD Lazier.

(04:53:31):
Um, my email would be attripad.com.
And I look forward to meetingeven one more person.
That's already one more.

SPEAKER_10 (04:53:40):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Well, wonderful to see youagain.
Uh, safe travels back afterthis, and I certainly look
forward to see uh keeping intouch and seeing you at the next
conference.

SPEAKER_06 (04:53:49):
Thanks a lot, C D.
Thanks, Dan.

SPEAKER_10 (04:53:52):
Our next guest is the founder and CEO of Onspot
Travel Group, which is based outof LA, but he is actually remote
in Rio.
What an amazing place to live inthe world.
We've been chatting over thelast couple of days, and I was
keen to bring him into thepodcast.
So, Ben Surso, welcome to TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_00 (04:54:09):
Yeah, thank you, Dan.
I'm super excited to be here.
Thanks.

SPEAKER_10 (04:54:11):
And as we were chatting before, you have been
to Focus Right in the US before,um, but this is your first time
at Focus Right Europe.
Um, but before we get into that,tell everyone a bit about Unspot
and this company that you builtgoing back to like 2006.

SPEAKER_00 (04:54:24):
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, exactly.
So company is actually turning20 years old 20 years uh young
this year.
Um started the OnSpot TravelGroup, started with uh a DMC
brand, it's called Califun.
Um mostly because you know I'vebeen always a big uh fan of the
US since my you know childhood.
And uh so for yeah, onspottravel group now is composed of

(04:54:45):
uh Califund, so more likemarketplace for touring
activities uh for the US, B2B.
And then OnSpot uh came uh aboutright a year after that, 2007.
So uh OnSpot is pretty much inthe business of uh traveler
care.
Uh we provide traveler caresolutions for uh travel brands

(04:55:06):
such as in-destination traveltraveler assistance and
concierge services and uh someduty of care.
Um yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (04:55:13):
Fantastic.
And tell us everyone why youmoved to Rio.
What an amazing place to live.
What and and obviously clarifyyour accent because you have a
wonderful French accent.
So give everyone a little bit ofbackground on you, where you're
originally from and how youended up in Rio.

SPEAKER_00 (04:55:25):
Yeah, thank you.
So basically, originally fromthe Loire Valley, if you're
familiar with France, that'swhere the King's Castles are
located.
Um worked very early uh for a uhbig tour operator, French tour
operator, selling the US.
And then age 23, I decided, youknow, I've been very
entrepreneurial my whole life,my whole life, as far as I
remember.
And age of 23 decided, you know,it was time for me to uh uh

(04:55:48):
leave the company I was uhworking for, and I pretty much
asked them, hey, I'm gonna startat DMC.
Would you be my first clients?
You know, I'll I'll leave thecompany and do you want my bit
of my first clients?
So pretty much I I started umpretty young in the city of Los
Angeles, uh driving uh minivans,and I was offering
French-peaking tours of LosAngeles.
That's how I you know started.

(04:56:10):
And then uh yeah, um, so thatwas US for uh almost 15 years,
and then uh went to uh Brazil,you know, when COVID hit.
My wife being being Brazilianand being from Rio, she's a
carioca.
Um we decided what that's not abad place, like you said, to uh
to live uh during COVID and youknow ended up staying there.

SPEAKER_10 (04:56:28):
So and good for you.
Obviously, that's the uhconnection with your wife being
from Brazil, but I know peoplethat have moved to Brazil, uh,
and people that have moved to uhLatin America, um and and it's
amazing how COVID displaced somany of us and the the changes
are long term, right?

SPEAKER_00 (04:56:45):
It's like you know, you move during that time and
you've stayed.
That's right.
Next thing you know, you need toget familiar with the place and
then you start making friendsthere, and then you know, um
starting build like buildanother company there that we're
I mean it it makes it makeswhole sense now.
So we'll see how long we'regonna be there, but I I I can
tell you, Rio is a really coolplace to live.

SPEAKER_10 (04:57:02):
Yeah, no doubt.
Well, and you know, you havethat global perspective growing
up in Europe, uh living in uhNorth America for as long as you
have, and then and then I thinkthat's really helpful when it
comes to building travelexperiences.
So to bring us back to where weare here in uh Barcelona for
Focus Right Europe, tell us alittle bit about what brought
you here this year.

SPEAKER_00 (04:57:20):
So, pretty much um what brought me here is you know
to of course network with uh uhvery uh talented individuals,
you know, getting to understand,you know, the new trends and
technology, especially withwhat's going on with AI right
now.
Where we're obviously likeeverybody working uh and you
know looking very closely aswhat what is you know what is
being uh done.

(04:57:40):
Um but I guess more importantly,you know, for me it's uh getting
brand awareness around what wedo at Onspot.
Um it's you know, we believeit's more and more uh needed in
the age of uh AI.
You know, uh you need that layerof trust and um and
in-destination assistance is isa very important uh thing, you

(04:58:02):
know, if for brands, you know,to to keep brand loyalty.

SPEAKER_10 (04:58:06):
Yeah, for sure.
And uh given that you've uhexperienced focus rights in the
US, you know, obviously you knowthe scale of those.
This this conference you know ismore like 500 people versus a
thousand plus.
And we've talked on the podcast,as our listeners would have
heard, um, about what actuallyis special about it being a
smaller group of still very highprofile uh executives, decision

(04:58:27):
makers.
Uh I'd love to hear yourperspective on you know your
first experience in Focus RightEurope and also what are some of
the uh uh insights and takeawaysfor you this year.

SPEAKER_00 (04:58:36):
Yeah, thank you.
So basically, you know, the onlyreference I have is the the last
one I did in San Diego, right?
So a larger scale for sure.
Um you know, I would say I meanfor me the main the main thing
is really being able to talkdirect to you know decision
makers.
So that's that's really reallythat.
Um and you know, when it comesto the the the quality of you

(04:58:58):
know the the panels and you knowuh people that I've met here so
far, it's it's been you know thesame uh standard quality that
what I experienced in the US anduh you know that's definitely
something that I'll do I keepdoing every year, I think.

SPEAKER_10 (04:59:11):
Yeah, for sure.
And now and our listeners havealso heard that we're headed to
London next year.
I mean it'd be uh um uh somewhatsadly beautiful Barcelona and
the sunshine and the incredibleweather, and so many people have
been out running, and you knowit's um such an amazing cultural
hub.
But I'll I love London, so I'mI'm I'm actually thrilled that's
the next destination.
Um but in terms of on spot, uh,and I just want to make sure all

(04:59:35):
of our listeners, it'sonspot.travel if you want to uh
be checking out the website aswe're having this conversation.
I'd love to know Benoit, it'sobviously your full and proper
name.
Um our listeners, I was it's theend of the day we were
recording, and I was sostruggling at the beginning to
say Benoit.
So he kindly said, you can justcall me Ben.
And that's how I got to be usedto know.
There we go.
Having lived in the US, I knowthat.
Benoit, it's hard to pronounce,right?

(04:59:56):
Yeah, well, merci Benoit forthat.
Um tell us a little bit aboutwhat you have planned for
OnSpot.
What are you know over the nextuh six months, so the rest of
2026, what are some of thedevelopments uh and some of the
exciting partnership initiativesyou guys have underway?

SPEAKER_00 (05:00:09):
Yeah, so I mean for us it's really you know how to
obviously, you know, everybodyhas the AI word in, you know,
like AI is like definitely onthe roadmap.
Um but for us it's it's uhmostly you know using it to
really augment like the ouragent.
We call them spotters.
So we have like a network oftravel experts uh around the
globe, you know, and we bringthat human layer to a uh very AI

(05:00:35):
and tech um discussion rightnow.
But we tend to you know uhforget about the emotions,
right?
When you when you travel, youtravel to connect.
So especially when you encountera problem or you know an issue
during disruption, you want totalk to a human too.
So we bring both of it.
So I guess we're working uh onAI to augment the capacities, uh

(05:00:57):
capabilities of our agents.
So what you know, we haveseveral things on the roadmap,
but around also duty of care,um, that is an important thing
as well, you know, to understandwhat um the trip disruptions is
is happening more and more now.
So uh to catch that and prettymuch uh be as proactive as we
can.
So we're really trying to moveinto a proactive assistance

(05:01:17):
approach and not reactive.
That's what we use AI for.

SPEAKER_10 (05:01:20):
And when I was checking out your website and
preparing for a conversation, Ican see that you work with
travel agencies, tour operators,um, DMCs.
Uh for our listeners who are uhlooking at whether or not
there's a partnershipopportunity here.
Who what is kind of an idealclient for you?
Who do you work with?
And tell us about the B2B andB2C side of your business.

SPEAKER_00 (05:01:39):
Yeah, so we are only B2B.
Uh that's you know, we uh uh endup uh serving the final
traveler, so we're like a B2B2C,right?

SPEAKER_11 (05:01:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (05:01:46):
Uh but uh yeah, ideal, ideal traveler for us.
I mean, we're very good.
Um main uh client would be youknow travel advisors, uh host
agencies, um, who wants topretty much don't want to have
to wake up you know in themiddle of the night at 2 a.m.
to handle uh clients' requestsfrom overseas.
You know, this is a big one.

(05:02:07):
Um so we pretty much you knowoffer that uh uh trust uh
in-destination.
So we're an extension ofbasically travel uh advisors and
travel agencies to make surethey you know give the best
service to their clients.
Um so so that yeah, and mostlyFITs and I would say advisors
that are looking to work withdifferent uh in-destinations

(05:02:30):
providers.
If you work with like one DMC,usually the DMC tend to do that
work, you know.
But as the travel gets more andmore fragmented, you know, uh if
you use a lot of differentsuppliers, we're more like the
go-to contact for the travelersin the destination, and we
report live to you.
And you know, we have a lot oftools and analytics for you to
understand what's happening uhfor your clients overseas.

SPEAKER_10 (05:02:51):
Given your work with travel advisors, I've got two
more questions for you, Benwise.
One I'm keen to ask you is anduh this has come up over the
course of the podcast becauseour theme is travel trends, and
really what that means is tryingto separate the signal from the
noise and help our listeners payattention to what's gonna be
most meaningful for theirbusiness.
So, travel advisors, we actuallyhaven't talked about in any

(05:03:11):
detail in this particular eventspotlight.
And given you have them as a uhclient profile, I would love if
you wouldn't mind sharing whatdo you think is going to be most
important for them to be focusedon over the next six to twelve
months?
What is one of the big trendsthat you're looking at or you're
seeing um that would be worththem paying attention to?

SPEAKER_00 (05:03:30):
Uh yeah, that's a great question.
So, well, something that I'm um,you know, it's uh they talk
about this here as well.
I mean, part of what we do isalso there's this uh concierge
uh layer component into it.
And travelers are really umexpecting fast um
recommendations, answer, youknow, and uh they book more and

(05:03:52):
more last minute.
So the all the in-destination umaspect of things is is very
important to uh pretty muchcreate like um a great brand um
reputation.
Um so be being able pretty muchpretty much to vet and uh filter
the right uh experiences forthat right type of traveler is

(05:04:12):
very important in destination.
So we help with that.
I think this is a greatopportunity uh to do additional
you know revenue.
Um and you know, we we have alot of different um options.
Like I said, uh duty of carealso is something in the um is
very big in the corporatetravel, um, business travel, but

(05:04:33):
when it comes to leisure, whichis our main you know, FITs, it's
it's also something that I thinkis is very important and is
really over you know umoverlooked.

SPEAKER_10 (05:04:42):
Yeah, and uh given I've I mean mentioned the
website, uh I know you're activeon LinkedIn as well.
We were it turns out we werealready connected before uh it's
amazing the way that worksbecause then you also want to go
down a rabbit hole to be like,wait a second, when were we
connected?
How did that work?
Um but I won't I won't go downthat rabbit hole now, but it was
cool to see that we actuallyalready were uh connected.
So um what would be the bestways for our listeners to reach

(05:05:05):
out to you, Ben, directly or toengage with the Unspot team for
opportunities following thispodcast?

SPEAKER_00 (05:05:10):
Yeah, of course.
I mean, you know, with thewebsite, obviously we have a
contact, you know, uh form here.
Uh so unspot.travel and then uhyou know Benoit, B-E-N-O-I-T at
onspot.travel.
Uh and yeah, and we'll we'll youknow we'll we'll talk about you
know your needs and how you canuh pretty much deploy uh a you
know a turnkey, I would say,concierge, white label

(05:05:32):
concierge, and assistant servicefor your travelers um in
destination.

SPEAKER_10 (05:05:36):
So that's great.
Well, thank you again forjoining us.
It was great to meet you here,Ben.
And uh safe travels back to Rio.
We look forward to keeping intouch.
Yeah, thank you, Dan.
Our next guest is Oz Har Adir,and he's the founder and CEO of
Vio.
VO.com.
He's based in Amsterdam, andhe's here to join us today at
Barcelona for FocusRight, whichhe is a veteran of.

(05:05:58):
So, Oz, welcome to TravelTrends.

SPEAKER_02 (05:06:01):
Thanks for having me then.

SPEAKER_10 (05:06:02):
For sure.
Tell everyone about Vio.
I was not familiar with VO.com.
Give every background about whoyou guys are and what you do.

SPEAKER_02 (05:06:09):
Well, so we built an hotel booking marketplace, um,
and we built it in a way that wethought, okay, I want to build a
platform where customers don'thave to look any further.
And any way for them to savemoney on travel, well, we are
gonna find it, uh bring it toproduction, make it uh make it a
beautiful experience for them.
So it started as a hotel pricecomparison, like the other guys

(05:06:32):
you might know.
Then we built an OTA into it,which basically meant that the
cheapest prices is somethingthat we can uh usually offer
under our own brand.
And then we started doing allkinds of fun stuff like allowing
customers to build splitbooking.
So, for instance, if we find abetter rate uh that combines two
different rooms, we'll do thatfor you automatically, or
freeze, they can take an optionon the room and we will even uh

(05:06:55):
rebook it for them if the pricedrops.
So, any way that a customer canyou know save on travel, they
will find out on V.
That's the platform.

SPEAKER_10 (05:07:05):
Yeah, the one thing I found fascinating as I was uh
getting a chance to meet Oz andget to know him is the the fact
that the price drop.
I didn't even realize that thisoption existed.
So if you book a hotel for 315and it drops 270, it's one of
the things you protect yourcustomers with.
And that is one of the thingsthat's so frustrating about
travel is dynamic pricing andtrying to figure out when to
book.
And companies like Hopper sprungup just for this exact purpose

(05:07:28):
to try and help peopleunderstand when to purchase your
flights or or hotels, butspecifically in their instance,
flights.
Um give everyone a bit ofbackground on this on VO itself
um and your role in theindustry, because obviously this
has been around like you've beenthis is like your 15th focus,
right?
Right?

SPEAKER_02 (05:07:47):
So so I've I've been around for a while.
So so you have to imagine we wetook the most um let's say
uncommon path you could do.
So we started as in uh whitelabel affiliate of uh hotels
combined, Australia and guyseventually saw.
to to kayak in 2018.
And as they were selling tokayak, we were just living and
setting up our own uh our ownstandalone uh business and um

(05:08:10):
moving away from a task command,building our own meta.
But the goal was actually not tobuild a meta.
The goal was to build a marketdynamic marketplace where uh an
OTA is quite dominant in it,helps build retention, helps
drive um more advanced features.
And that's basically why thattime we left that uh that
business model.
So we started as an affiliate umyou know you've got a marketing

(05:08:32):
company who are you really uhand uh and by now I think we've
got I would say probably themost innovative product in the
accommodation space today.
So um and that was always thevision but it's just not very
common that companies do it.
And what's also not so common isthat they do it without ever
raising funding.
So you know when guys do fundingwell you're gonna hear a lot
about them because they needsomebody to invest in them.

(05:08:54):
But when they're bootstrappedyou're not going to hear about
them so much because you knowthey're too busy building a
business and they don't need totell everybody what they're
gonna do.

SPEAKER_10 (05:09:00):
Yeah.
Well that's something I foundreally interesting and one of
the reasons I was keen to haveyou on this event Spotlight was
because we've only, you know, Ithink we've passed like Ships in
the night at various otherconferences.
We know each other but only sowell.
I've not been overly familiarwith VO.com and what you guys do
and I was amazed to see you knowthe company's been around more
than 10 years so I was keen toget that that context and one of

(05:09:21):
the things that you you pointedout is that for travelers who
are you know on a budget whichmost travelers are having some
of these solutions like freezesplit price like the comparison
this is incredibly valuable fortravelers and this is again like
a real hook to get peopleengaged.
And then you guys also work witha number of high profile

(05:09:41):
partners Kiwi, Holiday Pirates,uh and also my uh good friends
over at Stay22, a Canadiancompany based in Montreal um who
um and and and they're one ofthe most innovative companies I
would say in the space they justraised over$120 million like
investors that are backing thatthey're going to be you know
continue to grow at anincredible scale.
So you've got some greatpartnerships.

(05:10:02):
So take us a little bit throughwhere the business is today.

SPEAKER_02 (05:10:05):
So so what what we do today is um on one hand
you've got the VO's brand itselfyou know you've got our app that
is uh you know downloaded morethan five million times and uh
our own brand that does millionsof bookings a year so that's on
one hand and on the other handum we're doing uh we have a
partnership program uh calledVio Power Solutions where you

(05:10:26):
know there's another Canadiancompany even uh even better
known Super which is uh whichhas been a partner of us for for
more than a year and a half onthe on the affiliate program uh
for example so different umcompanies are gonna use us
differently so sometimes they'lluse uh super for instance we'll
use they'll take the comparisonoffer we will offer so they will
show expedious prices orbookings prices or VS prices

(05:10:46):
next to super on theiraccommodation page and with that
they'll help people uh know uhwhen they have a good deal and
uh they'll build trust on thatbut if they don't want to book
with them well they're gonnaclick around they're gonna go to
one of the uh the OTAs bookthere and super gonna get a
commission so that's a way thatthat many folks use us um they
may use us for a white label sofor instance kiwi does that they

(05:11:07):
take the view product they runit as a pure OTA product as a
white label um we do all the allthe mess behind we charge the
customer we do the customersupport we build a I think a
beautiful platform um and thatbut that's just a white label uh
that runs under the Kiwi brandname so you got that as well so
it's very cool folks use itdifferently yeah yeah this is
why I'm intrigued about all thedifferent ways that uh not only

(05:11:30):
consumers can work with you butalso partners as well which is a
key reason that we're here atthe Focus Right conference in
Europe is the all thepartnership opportunities.
So given you have an extensivebackground of attending Focus
Right conferences tell us alittle bit about what brought
you here to Focus Right Europethis year and how the event's
been for you well what broughtme was a KLM flight but the um I

(05:11:52):
I I usually come for nice onedidn't no one's done that yet
it's just like yeah you knowit's uh it's one of those uh uh
dad jokes my my my my kids wouldsay um and um and what I love
about Focus Right is people comeuh to network they come to the
business they're open minded andin general business events is
that's what we're supposed to doyou know so I myself definitely

(05:12:14):
not come here to meet all kindsof payment companies and so on
but still some of them manage tocatch me uh at the bar uh and uh
and and and show me how we cansave 0.1% if we just did a
hundred different things and umand that's that's also part of
it you know and then again I'mslightly open-minded at the bar
uh for such pitches um but buttravel is all about is all is
all about partnerships and umand you know in the in a day to

(05:12:37):
day you know if somebody sendseach other email or let's jump
on a talk and let's you knowlet's figure out if we can do
some business together it's veryhard to find a headspace for it
you're not in my OKRs it's notyou know it wasn't something I
wanted to do.
But when you come to an eventit's you know there's a couple
of moments a year where you umwhere you basically you know
let's let dance hear what youguys actually have to do or let
me tell you my deepest problemand see if you can actually

(05:12:57):
solve that versus you know thething that you you showed me on
your uh on your brochure and uhand and for that I think focus
right is an amazing stage.
You know what I love about theconference and especially like
the US one um I like it that wehave the same hotel usually and
you know you end up having a lotof fun conversations around uh
in the breakfast or in thedinner of meeting somebody by
the pool if they end up goingthere like me.

(05:13:19):
But uh but the event itself isalso uh is also effective there
is enough networking uh spacethat uh that you're gonna run
into anybody you uh uh you maywant to meet and you're gonna
also get introduced to you knowvia via uh if you know your way
around here people are gonnaintroduce you all the time so I
I I like that dynamism and Ithink it's very special in
travel.
Not every industry has that thatpeople by definition know that

(05:13:41):
they're gonna have to work withwith a lot of other partners uh
and they're very open-minded todo it and there's a lot of you
know send your bread uh uh downthe water that I'm thinking I
liked your um weighing up theROI on a 0.001% for doing and
doing a hundred things it's afunny way to look at it but the
one thing uh there are certainlya number of payment companies
here so that really made melaugh but um and this is part of

(05:14:02):
the ecosystem of travel is thatyou know there's uh real
opportunities for them here soclearly um they're on the march
and they're doing their pitchesand they're realizing
opportunities um what are someof the other benefits you've
seen of being here this year Imean and I'm very curious to
know uh how you balance yourtime at a conference like this
between the networkingopportunities and networking
obviously is another wordeuphemism for bar time um but

(05:14:24):
also between those uhopportunities and the main
stages breakouts um has therebeen anything that's really
stood out to you from any of thecontent sessions well sadly the
way I do these events um is I Iwatch the content later on video
right I I barely enter the mainstage for the content uh it
wasn't always like that andactually I think it was 2014 in

(05:14:48):
Los Angeles where I vividlyremember Focus Right at the time
I was mostly a listener I didn'thave almost any business to do
with anybody I was a small whitelabel operator I didn't need any
of the any of the opportunitiesso I really came to listen and
we had the founder and the CEOof Tunar and the founder and CEO
of uh uh Citrip Ted Evers and umand both of them were were

(05:15:09):
pitching one were one after theother on main stage and I say
pitching because they had slidedecks about a hundred uh slides
each and they were going forthrough uh tons of content in 20
minutes time and you know I justlooked and I thought okay one of
these guys is going to win ChinaI don't know who right and on
the other hand you could see theWestern CEOs being interviewed
sitting uh if all comfortably onthe sofa being asked some

(05:15:31):
softball questions relativelyspeaking and you could see the
mentality differences betweenthose you know founders working
very hard have a lot to prove ina very competitive ecosystem
versus you know the Western CEOsthat by time by that time have
won basically their positions umin the in in the industry and I
thought the contrast wasbeautiful and I thought uh and
then I thought also the contentwas super interesting and I had

(05:15:52):
so much to learn uh so then Ireally wanted to be in the crowd
now I'm mostly watching later onon video.

SPEAKER_10 (05:15:57):
Yeah yeah no and I I mean that's become my reality as
well since I'm recording becauseI love the content it was always
what actually uh I lookedforward to most.
So similar to you that's exactlyhow I started coming to these
conferences.
And you know you gradually startknowing more people and then you
start realizing more businessopportunities for the
networking.
And yeah I mean the networkingalone is uh enough for a reason

(05:16:17):
to come to these conferences soum I'd love to know in terms of
where to from here for VO as youyou know wrap up at the
conference and head back toAmsterdam.
What are your plans with theplatform and what are some of
the developments that ourlisteners might be interested in
uh that VO is going to introduceover the course of the year.

SPEAKER_02 (05:16:37):
Right.
So I mean on on one hand I thinkthis is uh probably the year of
AI for everybody you know I Ihate mentioning it uh too much
but you know as I as I'm here mymy product team is is basically
building their product roadmapon how we can basically use uh
new technologies like AI to uhyou know to enhance the the
product experience so so that isobviously a thing you know we

(05:17:00):
are not gonna be able to staywith interfaces the way they
have been uh you know that thatthat's not that's not happening
you're gonna see I think everytravel platform uh evolve from
the you know relatively staticyou know here's our usual
filters here's the usual hotellist here's the usual content
we're gonna show you and intoallowing users to bring input
that is much more specificneeding on the other hand to uh

(05:17:20):
to process that input and to andto quickly give people
personalized results uh soyou're gonna see VS product
itself evolve in that way and Ithink uh and I think you can see
everybody in the industry havingto do it or be you know left a
little bit by the the the thethe the side uh of the road
right these uh big LLM platformsyeah for sure exactly and well
I've got one other question foryou and I want to make sure
people can uh follow up andconnect with you one of the

(05:17:42):
questions I've been askingguests on this podcast is that
you know when we think forwarduh a year from now and I know
that's a long time in uh uh ageof AI um you know we'll uh
definitely see each other mostlikely over the course of the
year uh at the US conference forsure but between being here in
Barcelona and being in Londonnext year what would do you

(05:18:04):
think is one of the themes thatour listeners should be paying
attention to and specificallywhat is something that will be
top of mind a year from now atthe London conference what's one
of the things you think willcarry over from this that you
anticipate us talking about orfocusing on then I mean here in
Europe one of the things that'svery strong in everybody's mind
is sovereignty right now techsovereignty in the as in you

(05:18:26):
know the the moment you know wewe're talking right now on the
17th um of June on you know uhjust five days ago Anthropic had
to close their uh you knowlatest model for um for non-US
uh companies so they uh ornon-US users so they ended up
closing it entirely and and Iknow that let's let's say in the
Netherlands tech system uhecosystem I think all around

(05:18:48):
Europe people are very worriedabout that fact so you know in
travel we almost don't carewhere anybody is from anybody
you know as a as a person andany companies from and um and we
all partner with everybodyglobally um but uh there is now
a very strong uh uh a tide wavein that in that regard and I
think it will become publiccenter stage so we are either
going to see uh that there is alot more regionalization in that

(05:19:10):
regard and that let's saycompanies are trying to buy more
more in their own region uh orwe're gonna see that it passed
because um let's say we would weare gonna have much more uh uh
tech is gonna catch up that itthe the big let's say platforms
in LLM case are not gonna havesuch an advantage that they
currently have.

SPEAKER_10 (05:19:26):
Yeah that's a really interesting perspective I'm glad
you shared that.
So um that's certainly somethingthat everyone should be paying
attention to it would beinteresting to see how that uh
plays out over the course of theyear and comes into next year's
conference.
But given that you are someonethat's very much in the know and
leading a uh a large uh travelbusiness here in Europe um I'm
sure many of our listeners mightwant to reach out or connect

(05:19:47):
with you what would be the bestways to do that?

SPEAKER_02 (05:19:49):
I think LinkedIn is uh is is is is the right is the
right tool for that right so itis uh you know if you look at up
my name Ozveer you're gonna findit on LinkedIn quite uh quite
easily and uh uh and that thatwould be the best uh the best
way to go.

SPEAKER_10 (05:20:03):
Fantastic well great to meet you and get this time
together here and uh wish you uhsafe travels home and look
forward to keeping in touchbeautiful thanks for having me
then our next guest is the AIlead for Maya and Maya actually
was a big part of our agentic AIseries on the Travel Trends
podcast you met Ben Manzi who'sbeen a great supporter of uh the

(05:20:27):
travel trends podcast and isdoing some really innovative
things in this space and I wasreally keen to meet the rest of
his team and I now have theprivilege to be able to sit down
uh with Amy Santos rather thanBen Ben's great but I was like
no today it's Amy's turn to beon the podcast something
different today.

SPEAKER_03 (05:20:45):
So Amy welcome to Travel Trends thank you very
much Dan it's great to be hereI've been listening to the
podcast for some time so it'svery exciting to to talk and
also in a such an exciting placeas well.
So thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_10 (05:20:58):
No I'm thrilled to have you and I was actually um
gonna thank you when I uh pulledup your LinkedIn profile I was
like you follow travel trendsyay I was like um but tell
everyone about Maya first foranyone listening to this that's
not familiar with uh yourcompany and what you guys do.

SPEAKER_03 (05:21:12):
Perfect I'll give a little introduction so basically
at Maya what we have done isdeveloped AI agents specifically
designed for travel companies.
So think everything OTAs travelagencies tour operators and DMCs
and we basically help themautomate all these very
repetitive tasks that they haveon their everydays.
One of those being for examplecommunication flows so from

(05:21:32):
having an AI agent on theirwebsite that chats with all
users from discoveryrecommendations and pre-booking
and postbooking to also movingto other social media channels
or communication channels andbasically supporting both to the
end user and internally.

SPEAKER_10 (05:21:48):
Very cool.
And your role there obviously isis um given these clients that
you have that are coming to Mayalooking for opportunities to
better understand agentic AI andhow they can incorporate into
their business tell everyone alittle bit more about your role.

SPEAKER_03 (05:22:03):
Yes so my specific role at Maya is of course
supporting all the possibleclients and all the clients to
really develop this AI roadmapconnected to all the
capabilities that Maya has andthe AI.
So really helping themunderstand what fits best
depending on their needs, whatare their goals long term and
then matching these andsupporting them also in the

(05:22:25):
personalization of their AI.

SPEAKER_10 (05:22:27):
Awesome and I was going to encourage all of our
listeners to that um not onlylisten to the agentic AI series
but specifically the one withBen Manzi on the episode because
it is really fascinating tounderstand more about Maya the
business that uh Ben, Amy andthe team have been building
because I know how rapidly yourcompany is growing now the
number of clients you're takingon you work with tour operators

(05:22:47):
and it's like there's so manydifferent verticals.
Which brings us to my nextquestion which is what you guys
are doing here.
I know you've got a booth youguys have been busy over the
last couple of days tell us whatbrought you guys to Focus Right
Europe.

SPEAKER_03 (05:22:59):
Yes so a big part of us being here it's of course
everything that has to do withconnecting with people right so
uh focusrite europe is a greatevent to meet other people meet
really high level also uhexecutives and really connect
over the strategic part of AIand also of course um being so

(05:23:20):
close together with theFocusRite team also they having
their own AI agent powered byMaya is a big part of this and
also supporting them and yeahafter all connecting with people
sharing what we're doing and umyes.

SPEAKER_10 (05:23:34):
And so I know you work with tour operators and
where I'm going with this nextquestion is to uh better stand
for our listeners like ourglobal listeners that are tuning
into this to understand whathappened here at Focus Right.
MayaTravel.ai is the website andyou guys are the AI agent for
travel companies and this iswhere I mentioned that it's not
uh no longer specific to oneparticular vertical what has

(05:23:58):
been the interest here what havebeen some of the companies and
where are you guys looking toexpand next?

SPEAKER_03 (05:24:03):
Yes so we have a big focus on of course continue the
expansion in in Europe so wehave a big base of customers
here and people already uh usingMaya uh a lot but of course
being here also helps us expandmore into the US where we also
have some leading companiesthere and then also uh a lot in
Latin America moving quite fastand also being here I mean of

(05:24:26):
course listening to all thedifferent conferences and all
the different insights it's alsouh brings a lot of value of
course yeah so it's great to seeyou I know Ben has been at the
Focus Right conferences in theUS and um but this conference
you guys actually have taken thethe booth space you guys have
been with the company a littlemore than a year this is your
first focus right conference.

SPEAKER_10 (05:24:44):
Indeed that's correct and I always love to ask
this question because I'm a hugefan of Focus Right.
All of our listeners know that Ilove coming to this conference
and it's I consider a conferencelike this a real privilege to
come to and and part of thereason we created the these
event spotlights was to allowour global listeners the
opportunity to get access to theinformation and the leading
voices that come together for aconference like this.

(05:25:07):
And I'd love to ask you Amy fromyour perspective the first time
being here what are some of theinsights takeaways like what
have been some of the benefitsbeing here I know you've
probably been at your booth alot of the time partnerships but
I'm not sure if you have achance to attend any sessions or
yeah tell us a bit how yourexperience has been yes actually
so many highlights in so littletime it's uh incredible to be

(05:25:28):
honest indeed to be here verygrateful and to be in such an
amazing city as well.

SPEAKER_03 (05:25:33):
Some of the main highlights that I was uh
literally just talking about itnow it's the fact that people
come here indeed to really shareto to understand what other
companies are doing and reallyuh basically talk over their
strategies and it's very uhinteresting to see how in spaces
of where just everyone gatheringin the coffee space and then you

(05:25:54):
start chatting with someone allthe networking spaces that feel
quite informal but are quitevaluable have been definitely a
huge highlight.
And also uh indeed I have beenable to attend to some
conferences and I think it'salways very interesting to
listen to the other startupsseeing their pitches seeing the
new ideas coming up and thenalso seeing how then yeah the

(05:26:15):
future of travel will be I thinkthat's very alive here.
I listened to a conference todaywhere they exactly mentioned
this like you know there's stillso many unknown things and it's
rather really understanding whatthe end traveler wants at the
end of the day.

SPEAKER_10 (05:26:28):
Like where where are we willing to adjust and where
not and then companies like usand others are going to follow
this right so really the thehuman trend basically totally
well let's pick up on that pointAmy because that's actually a
really good segue to the topic Ialways like to discuss which is
some of the trends that you'reseeing so now that people
understand more about Maya, yourbackstory what brings you to the

(05:26:49):
conference I'd love for you toshare some of the trends that
you're paying attention to yesperfectly so to be honest
something that I feel very uhclosely to it's of course my Gen
C vibes and the and the Gen Catmosphere that I surround
myself with.

SPEAKER_03 (05:27:03):
And I think a huge trend that I see it's of course
these um growing demographic ofGen C people traveling really
going out there doing solotraveling and how they use AI.
So I see it every day with myfriends and myself how I power
my my travels with not only LLMsbut indeed with uh direct chats
from companies that we alreadytrust and we already know so

(05:27:26):
that's uh it's been anincredible way to see in this
something also that caught myattention quite a lot it's of
course this new um trend ofcourse letting the agent book
for all of us I think that'ssomething that been has been a
topic quite a lot today um andindeed of course seeing how
people that are leading in theseindustries there's still some

(05:27:49):
hesitation sometimes you knowlike some people are like okay
perhaps I'm still a bitconservative between a six or a
seven in order to uh let the AIagent book for me and some
others really with um high ideasand and high uh standards for
this so it's really interestingto see where all of this is
gonna go all right and here'sone other question I'm gonna ask
you because this actually sinceit is your first focus right

(05:28:11):
conference and if we fastforward to London 2027 to the
next focus right conference whatdo you think we're gonna be
talking about what is one of theuh the main themes do you think
of that next conference?
Yes I think a big theme is gonnabe surrounded about trust so I

(05:28:33):
think we already have the toolsand we're already gonna have the
technology to really move uh theAI in travel indeed to be more
agentic and to take more actionsfor all of us but I think a big
conversation is going to be howdo we support uh the end
travelers to trust to trust thebrands to trust the AI to really
um be such an important part ofthis experience and how we're

(05:28:55):
gonna let the AI handle uhsomewhat that is sometimes quite
a stressful for many people soeverything that has to do with
planning um I think that's gonnabe indeed a conversation you
mentioned about how cool it isto be here in Barcelona
obviously we'll be in Londonnext year um you're based in
Belgium yes that is correct yourbackground you're actually
originally from the DominicanRepublic indeed yeah beautiful

(05:29:17):
island I must say so you have aglobal perspective um what else
uh from um in terms of travel umany other highlights from here
in Barcelona or what you haveplanned the rest of the year for
uh travel because of the and thereason I asked that is because
one of the things that I loveabout the history is being able
to come to amazing places and itreminds us what it's like to be
a traveler and why we do what wedo and love what we do what we

(05:29:39):
do.

SPEAKER_10 (05:29:39):
And so if we keep the perspective of a traveler so
my that's my question to you andI ask this of almost all our
guests on our podcast is likewhere are you traveling to next?

SPEAKER_03 (05:29:48):
Yes I love this question because I feel so
related indeed I think thissympathetic energy that comes
from the industry is because ofthe fact that we all travel we
all connect we all uh I reallyTo understand different cultures
and then meet each other.
And uh then some of my nexttravels are gonna be actually
going back home for a littlebit.
So I'm going to the DominicanRepublic.

(05:30:10):
Uh, and then I have some plansfor my mom to come to Europe and
maybe we will go to Egypt.
That's still to be decided, butwe are uh looking for that.
And this year, maybe Panama.
That's still to be decided.
But uh I think I'll go to Panamaand also be with my family
there.

SPEAKER_10 (05:30:26):
Wonderful.
Good for you, and I hope thatall comes together.
Thank you.
Nothing better than travelingwith family and especially
giving parents the opportunityum to be able to see the world
and um greatest gift.
Yeah, indeed.
Um, and let's leave everyone.
I mean, I'm gonna mention thewebsite, and so I'm gonna throw
a bit of a twist on thisquestion as well.
Uh I want to know, I want uh youto kindly share uh how people

(05:30:47):
can follow up with you directly,the team, um, to learn more
about uh Maya.
Um but the one thing I wouldthat my little twist is this is
whenever I go to the Mayawebsite, I always get the
chatbot come up.
And sometimes I like to playgames with chatbots just to see
what answers they give.
And uh when I interviewed RafatAli from Skift, I was using
their chatbot and I was askingthe questions of the chatbot

(05:31:08):
that I was gonna ask him to seeand comparing the two.
So I was like, what is thefuture of Skiff for the next
five years?
Um so my question to you is thishow do people follow up with
you?
And what would be a goodquestion for them to type into
your chatbot?

SPEAKER_03 (05:31:19):
Oh, that's a great question.
Well, for people to follow upand learn more about Maya, you
can find my LinkedIn.
It's uh E-I-M-Y-A-Santos M.
That's my name.
And then, of course, followingjust directly with the uh
MayaTravel.ai website, there youcan find all the information
about the team and indeed justtalk to Maya on our own website
and she'll really redirect youto the correct place.

(05:31:41):
Um, and then something to ask toMaya is yeah, I think what's the
give it uh a little bit ofinformation about your profile
and ask what's the best way tohelp them right now.
So direct advice.

SPEAKER_10 (05:31:54):
All right, I'm gonna give that a go right after.
But Amy, it was great to meetyou.
I uh you know I think so highlyof uh Ben and the team, so it's
nice to meet the rest of thecrew, and I wish you and the uh
team at Maya great success therest of the year and beyond.

SPEAKER_03 (05:32:06):
Yes, thank you so much.
You've been very welcoming, Iappreciate it.

SPEAKER_10 (05:32:12):
Our next guest is Sebastian Texier.
He's the co-CEO and co-founderof Jinko, and it's gojinko.com.
I was keen to get him involvedin the podcast because of their
unique focus on travelinfrastructure and AI.
And so I would love to uh getinto the conversation with you
on this because it's you I knowit's your second time here at

(05:32:33):
the Focus Right conference.
So, Sebastian, welcome to TravelTrends.
Thank you for having me.
For sure.
So let's talk about GoJinko andGinko.com.
What tell us a bit of backgroundon this company and the business
you build?

SPEAKER_01 (05:32:46):
Yeah, um, well, um, thank you very much.
Uh I've been working in thistravel industry for a while now.
Um, and what has always been uh,in our opinion, uh the blocker
uh of the travel distribution isum the difficulty uh to convert
uh from search to book, uhbasically the look to book

(05:33:08):
ratio.
Um so we've built a startup outof this uh in order to aggregate
uh six years ago, uh, in orderto better distribute the
upcoming NDC content uh withoutstressing too much uh the
infrastructure uh from theairlines uh in leisure market
essentially, uh, where theconversion ratio are very poor.

(05:33:29):
Um we've eventually beenacquired by uh Hopper uh with my
co-founders.
Uh we led the European expansionfor uh for Hopper uh for almost
three years uh and since end of2024 uh we left Hopper uh and we
created a new company namedGINCO because we are strongly

(05:33:51):
convinced that there will be ashift uh in travel distribution
um with flight hotels, all thetravel components uh being
intermediate uh by agents uh andnot directly uh through humans.
Uh we can see this shift alreadywith the search, uh, with more
and more people relying on LLMsand conversational AI uh when it

(05:34:15):
comes to um get inspiration.
Um but we just we believe thatwe are just uh at the beginning
and that from search there willbe bookings uh and all the um
purchase flow uh that's gonna bemanaged uh within uh
conversational uh AI uh agenticuh ecosystem.

(05:34:39):
Um and for this uh we stronglybelieve that uh we will have to
rebuild uh a completeinfrastructure in order to make
this to work.
And this is probably one of thereasons why it is not ready yet.

SPEAKER_10 (05:34:53):
Uh well, one of the reasons I was keen to have
Sebastian on this eventspotlight is because of his
background in the travelindustry, starting in the
aviation.
Now you work with Air France andKLM for a number of years, and
then the fact you've gone on tobe a successful entrepreneur,
having uh uh launched and solduh uh a couple of startups, and
specifically uh the um I likesome of the branding, not only

(05:35:15):
with Jinko, but uh Mowgli aswell, the company that you built
that you sold to Hopper.
And so you were the generalmanager of uh Hopper for Europe
uh for a few years after that,and then here you are again on
the startup path a year in.
And so I wanted to share thatwith our listeners so they had a
bit more understanding aboutyour background um and what
you're building.
So, on that note, I mean uhyou've been to this conference

(05:35:37):
before, you're now back with uhthe conference again with Jinko.
Tell us why you came to FocusRight Europe this year.

SPEAKER_01 (05:35:45):
Well, uh Focus Right is interesting, of course,
because it's where we can meetpeople, we can see the trend.
Um, and what is very interestingis also uh we can um from one
year to another one uh we cansee the progress.
Uh we are in a market that webelieve will shift.
Um the question is that the thebiggest question is not will

(05:36:08):
agent will be managing uh searchand booking.
Uh the question is how long dowe take how long will it take uh
to come to that point?
And that's very interesting, andthat's why I came back last
year.
Um people were I would say veryum unfamiliar with concepts like

(05:36:33):
MCPs, for example.
Uh at that time, a year ago, wehad built our first uh hotel
MCP, allowing people to searchand book hotels um on cloud at
that time, and we were reallykind of um aliens uh speaking
about uh MCPs.
Now, one year later, um peopleare convinced that AI uh will

(05:36:54):
play uh an important role uh indistribution, that agents uh
will act on behalf of humanswhen it comes to make bookings.
Um so that's also the reason,and to of course, to to meet
people, to share views, tounderstand what are the trends
and um and of course whom we canpartner with uh to provide this

(05:37:15):
agentic experience anddistribution.

SPEAKER_10 (05:37:17):
Of course, you're based in Paris, so you have a uh
a good understanding of theEuropean market, and here we are
in in Barcelona, and uh I'm keento ask you a little bit about
the European tech scene,especially as it relates to AI,
because it is quite differentthan what's happening in the US.
Um before we get into that, tellus a little bit about what I
mean, we're having thisconversation just for our

(05:37:38):
listeners towards the end of thethird official day, second day,
depending on how you look at it,since they added day one on the
Middle East with web and uhtravel.
But I would love to hear some ofyour observations.
Having been here last year andbeing back again this year, what
has been some of the uhbeneficial sessions, some of the
takeaways for uh for you and theteam?

SPEAKER_01 (05:37:58):
Um the trends that uh focus right could provide um
the round tables.
Uh we really see that now uhpeople are considering uh AI uh
not only as a shopping uh uhtool, uh, but eventually uh a
place where all the purchaseflow will happen, uh from search

(05:38:21):
to booking and eventually uhpost-booking operations.
Um so yeah, this is it.

SPEAKER_10 (05:38:27):
That's great.
And then let's talk aboutEuropean tech scene, because it
is quite different than what'shappening in North America.
And you occasionally hear uhglimpses of the investments in
some of the AI startups.
You're based in Paris, and youknow, when I think about both uh
Spain and France, uh two bighubs for uh tech talent uh and

(05:38:47):
investment in in travelstartups, and it's really
interesting because uh Europehas overtaken the US in terms of
investment in travel technologystartups, and we're seeing a lot
of tech we're saw a lot oftravel companies, not just
technology companies, um, thatare expanding out of Europe uh
globally.
So there's something specialgoing on here.

(05:39:08):
What's your take on that, givenyou've been in Europe for many
years, you've been in the travelspace.
Um why do you think Europe is uhexperiencing such a renaissance
at the moment?

SPEAKER_01 (05:39:18):
Um I can't answer this question.
We uh well I I agree with youwith the fact that um we need to
expand.
Uh and we we are based in Paris,but we consider ourselves as a
global company.
Uh even though we are small, uhthe market is global.
Uh we have a strong focus on theUS market, and basically our

(05:39:39):
first customers uh who arebuilders, uh agent builders, um
are in the US.
Uh so we are located in Europeum because this is where we we
used to work.
Um but we target the US marketas the first market, and
eventually we might be moving uhprobably to the US at some

(05:40:01):
point.

SPEAKER_10 (05:40:02):
Interesting.
Okay, so tell me a bit moreabout that, because obviously
that's uh you know, um tell wellon that note, tell us a little
bit more about where you, youknow, this platform, you were in
stealth for seven months and youunrolled this technology, you've
been uh I guess kind of live andpublic uh for a year.
Um tell us a little bit moreabout how this business is
scaling and why you would thenconsider moving to the US.

SPEAKER_01 (05:40:25):
Well, we again um we believe that our customers will
be agents, uh AI agents.
Um and so the question then iswhere are these agents?
And today um most of the agentsare provided or built.
Um it could be either throughpeople, uh individual people who

(05:40:47):
want to build their individualagent and they want their
individual agent to um managetravel.
It could be also um agentplatform uh to allow people to
build easily uh open claw-likeagents but in a more uh easy
way, secured way.
Um or it could be also um bigtech players who want to

(05:41:11):
integrate uh in their agentic uhproduct uh travel.
And if you consider all theseplayers, all these segments, uh
most of them are US-based.
Um so that's why, and and by theway, of course, it's the largest
market, um, and we have thetechnology that is compliant uh

(05:41:32):
with what the US um consumerbuilders companies uh want uh
when it comes to distributetravel uh through an agent.

SPEAKER_10 (05:41:42):
And so yeah, I know you have a background in
flights, and you've built out umthe platform for flights for
hotels, but my understanding isthat you're planning to move
into activities, which isobviously uh uh especially big
in the US market, um, trains aswell.
So tell us about what your plansare over the next six months
with the platform.

SPEAKER_01 (05:42:02):
So um what we believe at some point is that um
uh agentic distribution when itcomes to travel is a new way um
of digitalization of the travelagent, uh the former uh physical
travel agent.
Um I believe that um uh internetwas the first wave of

(05:42:26):
digitalization, but it has beendigitalized in a do-it-yourself
way.
Uh, internet providedinformation uh for you and me to
uh discover, get inspiration,consider uh a destination, um,
and eventually uh do atransaction uh on an OTA.
Um we believe that today um andthe consequence of this is that

(05:42:50):
you were doing uh as you werethe travel agent, you were
purchased purchasing a flight, ahotel, and eventually and maybe
potentially an activity.
Um but now with the AI agent Ithink we get back to what was a
real travel agent uh but doneonline.
And the consequence of this isthat we are moving upward in the

(05:43:12):
funnel.
Um and people are basically whenit comes to travel, they are not
looking for a flight and then ahotel.
They're just looking for a trip.
Um, and of course, uh we mostlikely will have to be able to
answer to the question, whereshall I, not where shall I fly,
or give me the best price for aflight from Paris to New York.

(05:43:35):
The question will be where shallI go on vacation?
Where should I go on vacationwith my family for under$2,000
this summer in Europe, forexample, for an American
citizen.
Um, and then you need uh to haveand to combine uh the flight
inventory, the hotel inventory,and to be able to provide the
flight offer, uh, I mean a trip,a complete trip offer.

SPEAKER_10 (05:43:57):
Yeah, and it's an exciting time to be in this
space.
And I think when we look atcompanies like Nuite that are
focused on the infrastructureside of travel, a lot of
investors uh have said to me andon our podcast that they're very
much interested in investing inthe plumbing of travel, and
that's where the realopportunity is, is in the
infrastructure and theconnectivity.
And what I find particularlyfascinating about the business
you've built, and clearlyobviously you know your stuff

(05:44:18):
from your background in traveland technology, is that you've
built this for agents.
And you were very clear when youuh uh started explaining, uh
Jinko, that that's you know,you've built the travel
infrastructure for agents.
One of the things I'd love toask you for all of our listeners
that are still wrapping theirhead around uh the pace of
change with AI, is thatpreparing your business, whether

(05:44:41):
or preparing um for a worldwhere agents are actually the
primary users of your website,for example, that's a big topic
of conversation today.
Um, what should travelcompanies, travel agents, travel
advisors listening to this, whatthey should what should they be
paying attention to, what shouldthey be aware of?
Um what should keep them up atnight?

(05:45:02):
Um what what are the bigopportunities?

SPEAKER_01 (05:45:04):
Uh I believe um whatever will be the
distribution channel in travel,uh, because there are several uh
distribution channels, um, therewould be an agent somewhere.
Uh and when I'm saying this, Isay that okay, um you can have
an agent provided by LLMs uhthat provide a full um shopping
uh and booking experience.

(05:45:26):
Um but you also, on the otherhand, um on the other side of
the spectrum, uh you will stillhave people that will be willing
to sell travel, such as traveladvisor.
Uh, but even travel advisor maywill need uh an agent uh to
prepare uh their offer uh togain in terms of efficiency.

(05:45:51):
Um I'm I I'm a believer thatmore and more people will rely
on an AI agent uh when it willcome to make a booking, uh, and
they will delegate uh to theiragent um the act uh of making a
booking.
But I also believe uh that otherpeople will still rely on a

(05:46:11):
human because of the trust uh uhthey have in this human
experience for such uh trip.
That said, uh these uh humanswill need to be efficient, uh,
and they will need also agentsthat are able to search to
benchmark travel offer in orderto help uh the agent to provide

(05:46:35):
the best offer to their endcustomer.
So eventually you will haveagent everywhere.

SPEAKER_10 (05:46:40):
Yeah, and that's that's certainly um my view, and
I think a lot of um uh peopleworking in technology and travel
is that you know, as AgenTicproves its capabilities, the
question becomes what you saidis trust.
And when will people trustAgenTic to make the booking?
I've seen some great demos fromcompanies like Lufthansa

(05:47:01):
showcasing their technology forbeing able to book a flight in
90 seconds with voice only.
And I love that idea.
The question is, are peoplegonna trust it and when will
they start using it?
Um so it's great that thetechnology is there, and this is
the the next kind of stage thatwe're in, which is really
exciting.
Um so on that note, I know I'vementioned Gojinko.com.
Uh I want to make sure all ofour listeners, if they want to

(05:47:21):
connect with you and the teamafter this, what would be the
best ways for them to do that?
For them to do what?
To reach out and connect withyou or the team.

SPEAKER_01 (05:47:28):
To connect with you with us as a team, they can go
through GoJinko, of course,Gojinko.com.
Uh they can connect me directlyuh to me uh through LinkedIn.
Um fantastic.

SPEAKER_10 (05:47:42):
Well, uh uh Sebastian, it's great to meet
you.
Um uh merci beaucoup, thank youfor your uh bon chance.
My pleasure, thank you.
Good luck to you and the team inthe next year ahead.
Yeah, my pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 (05:47:51):
Thank you.

SPEAKER_10 (05:47:53):
Our next guest is Mate Sata, and he is the chief
AI and growth officer at Vola.
Mate, welcome to Travel Trends.
Pleasure to be here.
First of all, tell everyoneabout Vola.
So it's Vola.ro, which is aRomanian domain name.
Tell everyone about Vola.ro andwhat you guys do.

SPEAKER_23 (05:48:12):
Yeah, so we're actually a group of brands.
Um the uh the biggest brand iscalled Vola, and the RO domain
does stand for Romania becauseuh a lot of the company is
Romanian and we're a marketleader in Romania, but we have
other brands as well.
We've been around for almost 20years now, one of the first OTAs
in uh Central Eastern Europe.

(05:48:34):
Um our second biggest brand iscalled Fru.
Uh, it's one of the top OTAs inin Poland uh because our
development team and uh theother core office is in is in
Poland.
Um and we also launched uhBulgaria uh about a year ago.
Uh have been focusing a lot onour app growth over the past
year as well.
Uh and we're also a marketleader in a in a smaller Romania

(05:48:56):
adjacent market, which is theRepublic of Moldavia, uh, but we
consider it a single marketbecause historically speaking,
you were kind of the same guys.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (05:49:04):
And you also have a background in this industry.
Tell us a little bit more abouthow you got into this space,
especially when you're the chiefAI officer for a company.
Tell us a bit more about yourbackground.

SPEAKER_23 (05:49:14):
Yeah, so I'm um I'm a recently new figure to travel,
I would say specifically.
Uh my background is mostlygrowth.
I've been doing growth for thepast uh 16, 17 years now.
Um started working for Vola in2017 initially um as the head of
marketing.
I um I then got funded for myown startup that was in B2B

(05:49:35):
advertising tech, so one relatedto travel, although we had a lot
of travel clients, uh, which Iscaled to the uh to the US over
the past seven, eight years, uhpartially exited it last year,
and started working togetherwith Vola again after they got
got acquired by a Polish privateequity fund called uh Resource
Partners.

SPEAKER_10 (05:49:54):
Very interesting.
And then tell us a little bitwhat brought you to focus right
since it's your first year.

SPEAKER_23 (05:49:59):
Well, because we're focusing a lot on our
international expansion and ouruh uh our AI product suite.
I wanted to get to meet otherpeople with more kind of
experience in the industry andsee what ways uh we can work
together and what other whatother OTAs are doing, what other
partners are doing.
So it's an interesting way tokind of get your um a finger on

(05:50:20):
the pulse of the of theindustry, you know, see what
people are working on for real.

SPEAKER_10 (05:50:24):
Fantastic.
That's great.
And uh what has been your uhobservations for your very first
time at FocusRite?

SPEAKER_23 (05:50:31):
Well, it's super uh there's a lot of value in both
the uh both the conversations,uh, but especially the people
that you meet.
There's obviously a heavy focuson AI, everything is AI native
or AI adjacent, at least uh atleast on paper.
Um and I I I still I feelthere's a lot of focus on trying
to figure out how we actuallytap into consumer demand, which

(05:50:52):
seems to be the biggest problem.
Uh, there's a lot of capitalgoing around AI.
I was just uh talking to uhStanislav from Revolut, who sold
his AI uh to travel startup toRevolut.
Um and it's interesting howthere's a lot of money, um,
money there, but we don'tnecessarily see the way to
capture consumer demand rightnow.
We've managed to do a lot ofinteresting stuff within the app

(05:51:15):
ecosystem to move people towardsthe app and towards AI features,
but it's still not at the scalethat you'd expect considering
the amount of capital that'smoving around AI.
So my point is we we're stillearly, I think, in this uh AI
race for in travel at least.

SPEAKER_10 (05:51:30):
Well, tell us a little bit how you guys are
approaching AI at Vola and whatsome of the integrations, what
are some of the uh the usecases?

SPEAKER_23 (05:51:37):
So it's interesting.
First of all, um we're doing uhwe're doing it very consumer
facing.
So we've done it already interms of uh um automatizing a
lot of our internal ops, uhcustomer service, uh making life
easier for our data analysts,for our admin team.
Uh, but we started using itconsumer facing very early.
So we uh we're mostly a flightOTA right now, and historically

(05:51:59):
we've Been flight focused.
The initial application was theone that pretty much everyone is
doing now, which is giving aconversational layer to search,
right?
And focusing more on inspirationand more flexible type of
queries rather than from two,you know, two adults, baggage,
no baggage.

(05:52:19):
And that worked really well.
We managed to get a lot of powerusers, and about 20% of the
people who use our app right nowuse AI for booking.
But we're also adding newverticals, and we are it's
interesting because we'restarting them from an AI
perspective, right?
So we're not just adding the AIlayer on top of an existing
business, we're building a newvertical from the ground up with

(05:52:41):
AI.
So, for example, by the timethis launches, uh it will be it
will be public, so I can say it.
So we're launching hotels, whichwe uh which we've done very
fractionally for uh for a while,but we didn't really invest in
it.
And we're launching hotels, butwe're not we're doing it AI
first.
So by that it means we didn'thave to reconfigure our entire

(05:53:02):
business and think how can werefactor it with AI, but we
actually uh thought about theexperience uh AI first.
So it was interesting to see.
Uh it's definitely differentthan what you see on other OTAs.
Uh, there's fewer optionsactually rather than more
options because we feel that AIis a good fit when it comes to
choice paralysis, right?

(05:53:23):
Um, and we'll see how it goes.
Like we haven't launched it yet,but we're pretty confident in
the experience.

SPEAKER_10 (05:53:28):
Fantastic.
That's exciting.
And for our listeners that aretrying to wrap their head around
AI and how it's impacting thetravel industry, it's been a big
focus for us at our last twovirtual summits.
But I'd love to get your take onwhat are some of the things our
listeners should be payingattention to as far as how they
should be incorporating AI intotheir travel businesses.

SPEAKER_23 (05:53:47):
Well, I I think there's three layers to it.
Uh, one is obviouslydiscoverability, that's been a
big topic.
So um there's definitely moreand more people using the most
popular uh AI tools to discoversearch, to discover travel,
right?
And discover flight options andbooking options.
So Chat GPT and Claude andPerplexity discoverability is

(05:54:08):
one layer.
So if you're trying to get moredemand, I would focus on that.
Uh the second is on a productperspective, we we notice that
there's a significant uptick inconversion rates with for people
that use our AI uh tools in theapp.
So second is if you already havea pretty big user base, try to
shift them towards an AIproduct.

(05:54:29):
And if it's a good AI product,your conversion rate should see
I can't share number numbers,but should see a shockingly high
uplift if you're doing a goodjob.
Um, and the third is just beingmore lenient and more efficient
with your team because you cando more uh internally by just
automating a lot of stuff.
We use like we, for example,right now a lot of the a lot of

(05:54:52):
the analysts are doing a lotmore, like their output is
significantly higher, and we'regetting way more insights into
what works and what doesn'tbecause we have this internal
workflow that uses various AItools to just make our life more
efficient.

SPEAKER_10 (05:55:11):
What would be the best ways for uh for them to
reach out to you or the team fordifferent opportunities?

SPEAKER_23 (05:55:16):
Uh yeah, website vola, LinkedIn.
You can find me on your usualsocial media platforms.
Uh yeah.
And Mate Sata.

SPEAKER_10 (05:55:25):
So it's M-A-T-E-I and then P-S-A-T-T-A.
That's correct.
Anyone that's uh very keen toreach out to you on LinkedIn.
Um, a real pleasure to meet youhere.
Good luck with the rest of theconference and uh uh wishing you
every success with Volo over thenext year.
Same here.
Thank you, Dan.
Pleasure.
Our next guest is Nina Lakatos,and she heads up business

(05:55:47):
development at MessageHelp.
Nina, welcome to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_05 (05:55:51):
Yeah, thank you, Dan, so much.
Yes, it's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_10 (05:55:54):
Nina, tell us about Message Help and what you guys
do.

SPEAKER_05 (05:55:57):
Okay, so Message Help, it's on channel
communication layer which sitson top of the property
management system, PMAS, and uhour end client, uh, that's a
hotel, hoteliers, so it's alodges, um uh hotel uh brands,
so that's the end client.
And uh the idea of message helpis connecting the entire guest

(05:56:20):
journey, starting from thepre-arrival during post with
integration of AI agent as wellin the chat.
So, like any messaging platform,let's say for example, WhatsApp,
Telegram, Instagram, Viber,Facebook, it's all connected to
one omni channel to the propertymanagement system, which is the
brain of the operation,obviously.
And we would like to add somecommunication layer, right?

(05:56:42):
So uh guests will be able tocommunicate in the selected
channel, let's say WhatsApp,right?
So yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (05:56:49):
So this is actually the very first time I've
interviewed someone with thedomain name.help.
So for our listeners, that's notonly is like a company called uh
message help, it's actuallymessage.help for those of you
who want to follow along.
And I uh obviously one of thebig categories that's here is
hotels and hospitalities.
So if I understand correctly,that is your primary focus for
clients, is that right?

(05:57:10):
Or do you work across otherverticals in travel?

SPEAKER_05 (05:57:12):
We do work across other verticals as well.
So our adjacent uh vertical,it's a beauty medical uh
well-being Horica.
So that's where we've built itour business already.
We've been in the market forfour and a half years.
So we've done it in MENA, CS,let's say worldwide.
So we've have already ourbusiness, yeah, and now moving
into the hospitality.

(05:57:34):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (05:57:34):
And what is the primary reason?
I know uh from looking at yourwebsite, boosting revenue,
increasing customer loyalty.
Um so those are obviously twothings that every business for
sure wants to do.
Um specifically, what are the uhthe benefits uh for hotels that
use your platform?

SPEAKER_05 (05:57:51):
So again, obviously that's uh upsell, right?
Increase the revenue, uhconversion rate, let's say if um
okay, let's say um clientsarrive, right?
They do the check-in at thestation.
Yes, they could be offered bythe receptionist.
You can book the dinner, you canbook certain services, you go to
the spa, right?
But again, if there is a humanfactor, right?

(05:58:12):
People can forget about it.
So if you don't upsell, itdoesn't happen.
But through the channels, let'ssay WhatsApp uh open rate, it's
98%.
So let's say if you do it in agood timing, let's say based on
the hotel, whether it's a smalllodge or it's a chain of the
hotels, it could be done incertain time based on uh

(05:58:32):
category of the clients beforethe booking.
So let's say two days before,somebody would like to schedule
for like one week before, againwith AI agent who can jump in a
chat and uh upsell, let's say acouple is booking a romantic uh
getaway weekend uh in theseashells, right?
And like two days before, guyswould like to upgrade your room,

(05:58:53):
right?
Have a better view, etc.
It's happening in the chat.
You're like, okay, why not?
It's not like you rushed withyour suitcase and backpacks,
like when you arrived tired ofthe flight.
So it happened right time, rightmoment, like a few days ago or
week before, and the same inthis day, right?
It can also happen during thewell, past the check-in, right?
So yeah, upsell can happen anymoment, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (05:59:15):
And now have you been to the Focus Right
conference before?

SPEAKER_05 (05:59:17):
It's the first one.
Oh, very cool.

SPEAKER_10 (05:59:18):
Okay, awesome.
Um so uh first of all, whatbrought you to the conference?
I'm assuming hotels, as I have,but given that there's lots of
opportunity in the travelindustry.
So yeah, first of all, tell uswhat brought you to the
conference.

SPEAKER_05 (05:59:30):
So exactly.
Uh our main uh, let's say,connection and with industry, we
target well, we would like topartner with property management
systems.
So and with them, once thepartnership obsolete occurs, we
can build the market and we canconnect directly to the hotelier
world as well.
And also we can do our marketingcampaign.
We already have a few clients,but again, we just like to

(05:59:51):
connect through the propertymanagement systems.

SPEAKER_10 (05:59:53):
Cool.
Given it's your very first timeat the Focus Right conference,
and uh, one of the things I'malways keen to ask, especially
first timers, is what has yourexperience been like?
So we're having thisconversation towards the end of
the conference.
What are the the some of thehighlights and benefits of being
here?

SPEAKER_05 (06:00:08):
Yeah, so it's definitely easy to connect to
the people at such eventsbecause uh let's say a travel uh
industry, it's all aboutservice, right?
Working with people.
So it's so much easier toconnect during such events in
person.
It's always a human factor.
So um, and also I thinkmentorship, especially like if
you're new, you're stepping intothat market.
There's like so many great umlet's say contacts who can

(06:00:34):
advise you and uh lead you incertain direction as well.
So for like upcoming events orsomebody might know someone, so
it's a very huge kind of in umlet's say um benefit of
networking.
So it's number one, I would say,yeah, definitely.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (06:00:48):
Yeah, there's amazing networking
opportunities.
And the the one thing I haven'thad a chance to attend is a lot
of the sessions.
Yeah.
Has there been any particularsessions on the main stage or
the breakouts that have beenparticularly interesting?

SPEAKER_05 (06:00:58):
Oh my god, there's so much happening around AI
sector, if you've noticed,right?
For sure.
So it's like it's moving sofast, it's so diverse, like all
company integrates in that,right?
And everyone would like to be onthe well ahead of the game, but
at the same time, uh, I thinkthere should be a solid
foundation.
What do you build it on?
So it's a lot of trial anderror.

(06:01:18):
It's like one of theconversations during the AI,
let's say, speech.
It was like if you have wellwere given a chance to book your
entire stay, hotel, wherever,with AI agent, doing it for you,
everything, would you do that?
Would you give this power?
It was like a 50-50 uh response,right?
And you can see by the audience,I would say based on the

(06:01:38):
background age difference aswell.
So it's kind of like such aninteresting split, but like even
50% of people saying yes, Ithink it just uh it's just yeah,
it's beautiful, you know, to seethat actually heading this way.
And we have to understand it'slike trial and error, mistakes
will happen, right?
You have to test certaintheories, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 (06:01:57):
Well, I mean, especially um given that one of
the primary uses for AI is chatbots and how people are going to
interact and engage.
And so on that note, bringing usback to massage help and what
you guys are bringing us back tomessage help and what you guys
are focused on building out.
Where to from here?
I mean, we're in the middle of2026, you're heading back to
London where you're based.

(06:02:18):
What are the next steps for thebusiness and the platform?

SPEAKER_05 (06:02:21):
Yeah, exactly.
So next step, we're heading backto London, right?
And we have another upcomingevent and a travel tech show in
London.
So, yes, a bit more networking.
Yeah, yes.
Uh, and also we're at the momentin discussion with a few
property management systems.
So uh I will not expose thenames, but yeah, since we've you
know signed a contract, it'salready out there, so that's the

(06:02:43):
next step.
So we can launch and get intothe market, yeah, and expand the
growth, yeah.
That's great.

SPEAKER_10 (06:02:50):
Well, yeah, and that the property management system
is a huge sector, and companieslike Muse obviously is you know
have been uh disrupting thespace because there's lots of
room for innovation, but everyproperty has to use some type of
system for their reservations,and so um on that note, I want
to make sure that all of ourlisteners know how to connect
with you, how to learn moreinformation.
Obviously, I've mentioned thewebsite, but tell our listeners

(06:03:12):
the best way to connect with youand the team after this event
and podcast episode.

SPEAKER_05 (06:03:16):
Yeah, perfect, definitely.
You can connect with us on ourwebsite, www.message.help.
Right?
So you can connect there, andalso you can uh find uh me as
well on LinkedIn, uh NinaLakatos from Message Help, and
I'll be yeah, happy to connectwith you.

SPEAKER_10 (06:03:32):
Fantastic.
Well, Nina, it's been a realpleasure getting a chance to
meet you here at the conferenceand uh safe travels back to
London, and uh look forward tokeeping in touch.

SPEAKER_05 (06:03:41):
Thank you so much, Dan.
Yes, it's a wonderful, it's apleasure meeting you as well.
Yeah, perfect.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_10 (06:03:48):
We now have the very final guest of this special
event spotlight from Focus RightEurope in Barcelona.
And this particular guest is agreat friend of mine, someone I
also have collaborated with overmany years in the industry.
He is the co-founder and CEO ofIWander, and he is also a

(06:04:10):
collaborator with our TravelTrends podcast and assists me on
uh working on the advisoryclients of our business.
And he uh was able to join ushere at Barcelona, and uh it was
a real pleasure to have him overthe last couple of days uh
helping me out at the booth, butalso meeting with uh clients of
ours and also showcasing theamazing technology that him and

(06:04:31):
his brother Antoine have builtbecause he is a successful
startup entrepreneur that I havethe privilege to know and work
with.
And on that note, Marius Nagond,welcome back to Travel Trends.

SPEAKER_18 (06:04:43):
Thank you very much, Dan.
Thanks a lot.
And uh for anyone listening, Idon't think you realize just how
much work Dan puts into thiswatching him basically podcast
after podcast after podcast, notime for lunch.
It's a marathon, it's it's it'squite a sight to behold.

SPEAKER_10 (06:04:58):
Thank you, Marius.
Actually, it's funny youmentioned it because uh in our
last two conferences, I broughtmy son, as you know, uh Oliver,
who's training to become apilot.
And a couple weeks before that,I went to another conference and
I brought my daughter becausethey're both on summer holiday
from university and I thoughtperfect intern opportunities for
both of them.
And they had much the samereaction there like, I had no
idea how hard you work and howmany hours you put in when

(06:05:20):
you're at uh traveling for workand at conferences.
And it was good for them to getthat perspective because as most
of our listeners know, and Ithink any of the people that you
would have met over the courseof this episode, work ethic is
is is is everything.
Like it's like you know, talenttakes you so far, but really
you've got to put the effort in,you've got to put the time in,
and there's uh the hustle isreal.
And I love doing this podcast,as you know, Mary.

(06:05:42):
So um for me, uh I get energizedfrom it, but at the same time,
after 30 interviews back to backon the 30 minutes, it's amazing
when uh someone brings me acoffee or a bite to eat.
So um thank you for doing that acouple of times when I've really
needed it.
Um, but thanks for being a partof this because it was really
cool to share it with you.
Um one uh tell everyone actuallythis is uh when we were walking
uh back from uh the conferenceyesterday, um, you were

(06:06:05):
commenting about the number ofpeople that are coming up to us
at the booth and asking to be onthe podcast.
And you made a really insightfulobservation about product market
fit.
Yeah.
Uh share that with all of ourlisteners.

SPEAKER_18 (06:06:17):
Nah, it's just um the first time I've actually
been on the travel trends sideand gone up to people.
And obviously, I'm I'm here withtwo hats on, my I Wonder hat,
the travel trends hat.
And then travel trends justhaving people coming up to your
booth asking, you know, to berecorded for spotlight episodes.
And I turned around to Dan andsaid, that's really when you
know you've got product marketfit when people come to you

(06:06:38):
asking for your product and likeyou know, not batting an eyelid,
like just signing up forspotlight episodes on the on the
spot.
But yeah, I mean it's worth it.

SPEAKER_10 (06:06:45):
Yeah, thank you.
And I will have we'll definitelybe sharing that with Melanie
does all our partnerships.

SPEAKER_18 (06:06:49):
I mean there's more, then you need to convert them.
So I don't know, she might havesomething else to say.

SPEAKER_10 (06:06:54):
Yeah, exactly.
That's the next step is um is isgetting any of those uh
partnerships over the line.
But no, anyway, it's beenfantastic having you here.
Um, to your point about wearingtwo hats, the first thing I want
everyone to know and us to talkabout is I wander, because you
know, as an entrepreneur who Iknew uh in my uh corporate
world, I actually knew Mariusfrom his previous venture, and

(06:07:16):
then uh looked to collaboratewith him then and bring him into
the group.
We've kept in touch over theyears, and uh, you know, he
really has become uh a goodfriend of mine.
And then when he startediWander, I was very keen to be
supportive.
So I've come on as a uh as apartner and an investor in
iWander.
I'm a huge believer in what himand his brother Anton have
built.
So, first and foremost, he is anentrepreneur that runs that

(06:07:38):
company, and then I'll explainthe connection in a moment.
But let's focus on iWander,Marius, because you guys are
also at a very exciting stage ofgrowth and development, having
launched the app in iOS, andeveryone here has been hearing
about the next development.
Even Pete Como kindly asked youto join a session on the first
day when he knew you were comingwith me to be a part of Travel
Trends.
He was like, wait a second,Marius is coming.
Let's get him on stage on thestartup stage.

(06:08:00):
So tell everyone about iWanderand this incredible uh AI
startup you've built.

SPEAKER_18 (06:08:05):
Sure.
So iWander is an AI travelcompanion.
So think of it almost like yourown personal tour guide in your
pocket.
So it basically helps peoplediscover destinations
independently.
We use AI in a couple of likereally exciting ways.
So the first thing is that wehave a technology which builds
self-guided audio tours on thison the fly, so on the spot.
So for any kind of like anytraveller in the world, any

(06:08:27):
destination, any neighborhood,any city, you can basically say,
I want you know a walking tourfocusing on history,
architecture, street art aroundthis area, starting right here,
uh, and make it last 45 minutes,and we'll go and build that.
And uh, whilst you're on thetour as well, it's kind of
dynamic, reactive, it that's onthe fly.
Um, so we've got that, and we'vealso got personalized

(06:08:49):
recommendations on what to see,what to do, what to eat.
So it's really a very holistictravel companion.
Um, we initially launched it asa B2B product, B2B2C product.
Uh, we launched it within theCity Sightseeing app, that's
working really well.
But I think when we actually sawhow people were using it, we
wanted to go release that as astandalone product and really
push it to the next level, likebe closer to the customer.

SPEAKER_10 (06:09:12):
So let's everyone tell everyone how they can
download it, how they can getthe access to it, because you're
now at that point.
Like you are, as far as I'mconcerned, at the point of
product market fit, and you hadthat amazing uh partnership as
you mentioned with CitySightseeing as you built out the
technology.
And when I downloaded that apprecently, I was like, oh my god,
because it's uh it's so the eyewander experience that I've come
to know.

(06:09:32):
But you also this platform nowcan do so much, like it's like
that realization that wait asecond, you for you and Antoine,
and uh you did a great post justrecently on LinkedIn.
I encourage you guys to checkout um uh the website and
obviously uh follow the team onon LinkedIn because once you
actually see the platform foryourself, you're like, and I I

(06:09:54):
had that like aha moment thatwas just like your vision has f
has been realized.
I like this is this is a newbeginning for uh for i wonder.
So tell everyone how they canget access to download it and
what they should be what theyshould be testing and trying out
with it.

SPEAKER_18 (06:10:07):
Yeah, sure.
So uh you can download it on theapp store.
So on iOS app, Android appcoming very soon, uh, by just
typing in iWonder and Wonderwith an A.
People people can sometimes getconfused.
And to say, you know, to to kindof um address that point about
what you can do.
I think that's one of the thingswhich we're really testing with
right now because the tool is soversatile, whether that's you

(06:10:30):
know, building a walking tour onthe fly or downloading a curated
tour which was written by a tophistorian, or even just saying,
like, okay, you know, what arethe top restaurants around me,
or are there any entrancetickets available for the
Sagrada Familia this afternoon?
Um, it's really versatile, andwhat we're really playing around
with now is that entry point.
How can we make customers awareof what they can do?

(06:10:53):
Because we have a funnel, andthen what we realise is that
people, you know, they start offmaybe with a walking tour, and
throughout the day they actuallystart asking questions, they
realize it's dynamic.
And then the last point there isthe is the tickets or the
upsells, which is somethingwhich we almost focus on on
second.
And that was actually quite um,it's really on purpose because
what we've found is that mosttravel apps and most travel

(06:11:16):
approaches are verytransactional.
You know, everyone focuses onthat transaction on the booking.
Where we really see value and agap is in the content and the
engagement, you know, the sortof content or tools which
actually make you stick or stayon a travel app or spend more
than like, you know, 10 minuteson a travel app.
So that's really what we'refocused on on content first, and

(06:11:39):
then once we've nailed thecontent, we can actually start
bringing in transactions.
So it's a bit like yeah, thatkind of holistic super app for
the travel space.

SPEAKER_10 (06:11:47):
Yeah, no, it's an incredibly exciting time uh for
you and the team, and uh that'swhy I wanted to focus on that uh
first and foremost, because thatis ultimately the um the path
forward for you and the team isthe success of I Wander.
Um I have the privilege to beable to collaborate with you on
the advisory side as well, and Ijust thought I'd share that, and
then we'll uh finish off bysharing some of the highlights

(06:12:09):
from the conference that we'veshared here together, and I'd
just highlight to our listenersas we're having this
conversation.
I think we're like one of thelast uh eight people left in the
uh the conference.
Everyone else is outside havingdrinks.
Um it's been two full days backto back to back, and uh here we
are.
We're still like, and this isthe reality of you know, you uh
leading a startup.
Uh and in many ways, traveltrends has been uh very much has

(06:12:32):
that same spirit and energy.
And so uh for us, we're stillhappy to be here as everyone
else is closing things down andwe're having this conversation.
But uh one of the other thingsthat we were very focused on
together uh uh at the conferenceis highlighting the advisory
side of Travel Trends.
And um, we're kind of doing asoft launch, if you will, at the
conference.
And you know, what used to beacceleration team, we we brought

(06:12:54):
it into Travel Trends becausethe number of clients that would
ask if we were doing advisoryservices and uh give my
background in the industry.
I I I love doing that type ofwork and I love working with
startups, established brands, umenterprise uh organizations that
are looking to launch newbrands, enter new markets, and
it was very much part of mychief digital chief marketing

(06:13:14):
officer role at the travelcorporation for many years.
So I loved that role and I lovethe work that I did there, and
I've been able to recreate thaton the advisory side of travel
trends.
But the reality is um I'mhitting that point, which is an
exciting point to be at, whereum I'm trying to keep up and
trying to manage my time betweenthe media side of the business
and the advisory side of thebusiness.
And I tapped Marius on theshoulder first because it's

(06:13:37):
someone that I uh I I have agreat uh not respect for, but
also there's certain people thatyou can just collaborate with.
And I've seen it when we weredoing board meetings and when we
were brainstorming on the IWander.
I said, Marius, you've got abackground in consulting.
I would love to involve you inthis.
Would you be interested ingetting involved?
And Marius uh kindly jumped atthe opportunity.
And so over the last couple ofmonths, Marius has been working

(06:13:57):
with me on the advisory side,and it's really Started to
flourish, and the clients havebeen delighted.
And so I said to Marius, we needto keep going that we need to
keep doing more of this andbringing on more clients.
And so Marius is now on ourwebsite.
We've added him to our website,still less his role at IWander,
but he's also there as a uhsomeone that's helping on the

(06:14:18):
advisory side.
And so I'm surfacing Mariusgradually as we build out the
advisory side because I don'twant to take away from the
startup life that you'releading.
Um but obviously I love workingwith you and you're adding a
huge amount of value to theadvisory business and to our
clients.
So again, that's enough for me,that's another thank you.
Um but tell everyone about yourinvolvement and what you've been
sharing with the people here atthe conference about Travel

(06:14:40):
Trends Advisory.

SPEAKER_18 (06:14:41):
Yeah, no, so uh Dan kindly offered me this
opportunity a couple of a coupleof months ago, and it's just
been so much fun.
Uh, because I come from abackground where I've done quite
a few different things in thepast, but marketing, product,
strategy, branding, but also uhquite a bit of consulting as
well.
And I think as well as a startupfounder, when you have spent you

(06:15:05):
know the best part of fiveyears, you know, over various
startups, um, focusing on yourproblems and your issues, it's
quite nice and refreshing toactually take that step out and
look at what other people orwhat challenges other companies
are facing.
And then actually that that alsohelps you as well be a bit more

(06:15:27):
structured with your time, butalso you know, actually take
those learnings as well to yourcompany as well after.
But it's just been so much funand like you know, learning
about different companies andseeing how well all these
companies are doing, and youknow, what just what this
ecosystem is and and uh buildingup that playbook as well with
you as well, um to then go aheadand scale this a little bit a

(06:15:48):
little bit more.
It's been been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_10 (06:15:50):
And obviously, we want to be very mindful about
who we partner with, and that'swhere first and foremost, my uh
obligation has been to ourexisting advisory clients and
making sure they're absolutelygetting what they need, and
we've been excelling in thatfront, so we're finally at a
point now where we can uhexpand.
So we have updated the TravelTrendspodcast.com slash advisory

(06:16:11):
section of our website, whichyou can find under uh the about
section on our main website.
We have not broken it out and wehave not done any promotion for
the advisory service until thispoint for the very reason that
we've just been busy enoughservicing the clients that we
have, and we'll continue to dothat, but we also are now the
ability to scale.
So that's one of the things thatwe were highlighting here.
So this is officially our comingout party of our advisor travel

(06:16:34):
trends advisory, our kind ofsoft launch, if you will.
Um, but the other thing I wantto close off on is the
conference itself.
As we both know, um we loveworking with Pete Como, uh and
Gene and the Focus Right team.
I know you have um uh a greatadmiration for them as well.
I mean, clearly Pete invitingyou to be a part of the uh event
on the first day is a clear signof that.

(06:16:55):
Um but I adore working with theentire Focus Right team.
I love this partnership and thiscollaboration.
It's been really exciting for meover the last two days to um to
meet so many new people.
I've uh connected with a lot oftheir colleagues, but a lot of
people on this podcast, it'sbeen the first time I've met
them and learning about theirbusinesses, and I always find
that really exciting.
So, same as you, I have thatlike you know, you start to see
opportunities and how you canconnect people.

(06:17:16):
And um, but I'd love to get yourtake on the last couple of days
from the conference itself.
I realize you've been so busy inmeetings and also um working the
booth with me that you haven'tbeen able to attend as much
sessions than you would haveliked, Marius.
But uh tell all of our listenerssome other highlights from the
last couple of days.

SPEAKER_18 (06:17:33):
Sure.
So for me, I mean focus right, acouple of things to say on it.
One, I always say this, but it'sworth reiterating what they do
for the startup scene and theway which they elevate startups
and give them a platform to rubshoulders with, you know, the
big guys in the industry unique.
Um, second, obviously the teamare absolutely wonderful,
they're fantastic, they're sohardworking, and the content

(06:17:55):
which they produce is justexceptional.
Uh, but what I really see thebenefit of Focus Right is
basically compounding thoserelationships which you've
already got.
Because every time you come, youyou know, you meet new people,
but you also meet the samepeople, it compounds, you get a
little bit closer to them, a bitmore personal.
And that's where you realize aswell actually how small this

(06:18:17):
industry is, where it isactually quite, you know, it's
it's it is quite a smallindustry, it's a
relationship-driven industry,and coming here and actually
like you know, getting to knowpeople on a more personal basis,
on a more kind of intimate, uh,on more intimate, smaller
setting is always very useful.
Uh, in terms of the industryitself, oh the the kind of the
vibe, maybe actually I can I'vegot a couple of thoughts, but

(06:18:40):
let's switch it back to you,Cynthia's been asking all the
questions today.
Like, what what have you whatkind of themes have come out
today based off you know theconversations which you've had?
Like what's what's your what'syour feeling?

SPEAKER_10 (06:18:51):
Yeah, so I was asked a question, an interesting
question on the first night, andit's come up uh, which is what's
the next big breakthrough thatwe're expecting to happen in
terms of AI and technology inthe travel industry?
And then we're clearly we'retalking about agentic, but the
specific sphere, I guess, isonce people actually start
booking.
And so there are no questionthey're researching and they're
using these tools.
And I think that is potentiallygonna be the biggest

(06:19:14):
breakthrough that we'll seebetween this focus right and the
next one.
And I do think the dam willbreak and some of these players
will uh start to get real cutthrough, and but it's not clear
yet who that's gonna be.
Is it gonna be mind trip um.ai?
Obviously, you heard from Andyon this podcast.
You know, it's uh they arecertainly one of the strongest
considerations.
But there are a number ofcompanies working very actively

(06:19:35):
in AI.
And actually, even uh uh someoneI just met uh with my
BizTrip.ai, which I'm notexpecting them to solve for
agentic, but they won thestartup award to your point,
Marius, about you know, focusright always being very
integrated with with uhstartups.
That's always been a focus onour episodes because we want to
bring startups into theconversation and focus right
gives them a spotlight.

(06:19:55):
And it's always been one of thethings about my corporate career
is how does a large establishedorganization work with startups?
And the real value of workingwith startups is that you get to
influence their roadmap.
Look at City Sightseeing workingwith you.
That's a great example.
And so you get the investment,you get the uh the brand
association, you get all thebenefits of working with a large
enterprise partner, and they getaccess to great tech, um, you

(06:20:16):
know, usually a um, you know, asmart, fast, uh moving team.
And so I think it's very savvythat Focus Rights done that.
So it's it was cool to see morestartups here that are going on
the journey that you went on,um, uh where you know you get to
go to Singapore, then you get togo to the US.
And then the last thing I wouldsay is that this year there was

(06:20:37):
I really enjoyed uh theroundtables.
I had the privilege to be a partof one, um, but I actually like
the dynamic that was nomicrophone, um, and it was the
whole idea was no scripts andjust get opinions.
And we got some really fantasticengagement from people in the
room.
And there was laughter, and itwas like it was like people
don't want to just be presentedto.
And that's that's a shift thatwe're seeing in the industry if

(06:20:59):
you look at some of the bigconferences.
Is that people want to beinteractive, they want to
engage, they want to be thecenter of the story, they don't
want to just sit in theaudience.

SPEAKER_18 (06:21:06):
And on that as well, it's um there's no filter as
well.
You can you've sometimes you getthese round tables where people
don't really hold back, and it'sa very unique opportunity for
all your competitors to be inthe same room as well, and then
you know, actually discussingabout where it's going, but also
like calling each other out oncertain things, which is one
entertaining, but two, yeah, sheyou can learn quite a lot about

(06:21:28):
it as well.
Like it's it I mean it's sounique.
Um, so it's brilliant.
But just on that as well, Ithink like for me the theme
which really stood out is likeAI readiness.
I think um speaking to a lot ofthe the players, I think a lot
of work what's what's come outhere is that a lot of work has
been happening behind the scenesat all these big companies to
restructure the data, like maybework a little bit more on the

(06:21:50):
kind of like on the plumbing,the pipes and the plumbing, and
being a bit more ready toactually start implementing
these um AI into customer faceand interfaces.
Um so I think there's that, andthat that we're starting to see
that with the payment layer,which is where basically this is
happening with the transactionlayer where okay, how can you
start surfacing your productsthrough chat or through Chat GPT

(06:22:14):
plugins or widgets?
And uh yeah, it's it's quiteinteresting to see all that.

SPEAKER_10 (06:22:18):
Yeah, definitely.
And as we wrap up here, I wantto make sure that we, as people
have heard throughout theepisode, I've always closed off
with uh the best way to connectwith people.
And the reason that I do that, Ijust want to share is that um,
and it's not to obviously berepetitive, the idea is to make
sure that all of our listenersget the chance to connect with
the amazing people that I havethe privilege to sit here and
interview.
And I've alluded to this acouple of times over some of the

(06:22:40):
interviews that I've done, isthat you know, I do see it as a
huge privilege to be at aconference like this.
And I felt that way when I wasum um in my like late 20s and
30s, and um and it's one of thethings, and now 40s, I'm like,
I'm like, but the point my pointof sharing that is that um
whatever stage you're at,there's a huge benefit to be
here.
And and keeping that perspectivethat I had, um it's it's who am

(06:23:04):
I it's the audience I'm alwaysthinking about when I'm
recording these podcasts is youknow, myself 20 years ago.
What would I like to be if Icould be in a position to ask
these people questions, whatwould I want to ask them?
And so at the end of it though,I want you, the listener, to be
able to be empowered from thoseconversations to take it
further.
So I'm encouraging you to reachout to any and all the speakers

(06:23:26):
that you've heard in the sessionthat you think there could be
opportunities to collaboratewith.
Jacqueline Grossman, who was alistener to our podcast from the
beginning, she built her networkand new career opportunities off
the back of every episode of ourpodcast, listening to them
reaching out to every guest,having follow-up conversations,
learning the industry.
And I love that because that'smy hope for each of you

(06:23:49):
listening to this.
So please take the opportunityto reach out to people that have
taken the time to share theirstory and what they're working
on.
That ultimately is the um thegreatest gift for me when I see
people who've been on ourpodcast again and they say to
me, Oh my god, I got so manypeople reached out to me.
And I'm like, and I got this youknow great new business uh deal.
And it's like that's wonderful.
That to me is like um it makesit feel uh all worthwhile.

(06:24:12):
Um so that's the thing I wouldjust want to kind of sign off
with, Marius, and the sameapplies for you.
I know I asked people, I know Iasked uh how people can connect
with uh uh down the download theiWander app.
But let's finish on how peoplecan connect with Marius Nagan,
that I have the privilege towork with.
If people want to reach out toyou about opportunities with
IWander or opportunities withthe advisories uh team as well.

SPEAKER_18 (06:24:34):
For sure.
I think the easiest place tofind me is on LinkedIn.
Uh so if you type in my name, soMarius M-A-R-I-U-S Nigon
N-I-G-O-N-D.
So silent D.
I know it's a silent D, and I Ijust can't I can't bear my I
can't I can't I can't bearmyself to actually like say the
D, even though I probablyshould.

(06:24:55):
Um yeah, so LinkedIn uh and I'llreply there.

SPEAKER_10 (06:24:58):
Awesome.
Well, thank you again, Marius,for being here.
Thanks for all your support overthe last couple of days, and I
look forward to you joining usat future events.
And I wish you and Antoine everysuccess in 2026 and going
forward with I Wander.

SPEAKER_18 (06:25:10):
And on behalf of everyone else, thank you for
giving us all an insight intoall these amazing conferences,
what's happening in theindustry, what's happening next.
Like we all appreciate it, andthe hard work does not go
unnoticed.

SPEAKER_10 (06:25:22):
Thank you, Marius, and thanks to all of our
listeners for spending the time.
I mean, many of you are probablycoming to the end of a
multi-hour episode.
Some of you may have listened toit in installments.
However, you have, I just wantto say thank you for taking the
time to listen to this eventspotlight from FocusRight
Europe, Barcelona 2026.
As you heard the throughout thepodcast, uh, the event will be

(06:25:43):
in London next year.
I look forward to the FocusRight USA conference in November
back in Fort Lauderdale at theAmazing Diplomat Hotel.
We do have a discount code thatyou can find on
Traveltrendspodcast.com to joinus.
And if you use the discountcode, uh send me an email
because I will guarantee thatyou are included on the podcast.

(06:26:04):
And as Marius saw, that is verymeaningful now because
unfortunately, I just can'tquite get to, even with
recording every hour on the halfan hour of all days of the
conference, uh, to be able toincorporate everybody.
And it's my uh honest attemptto, as Marius has seen.
Um, but I just wanted tohighlight if you do uh book your
ticket and come to the event, Iwill guarantee that you'll be

(06:26:26):
featured on the podcast.
That was my commitment to thefocus right team and to our
listeners.
And so hopefully we'll see youin Florida later this year.
And for any of you who's justdiscovered the Travel Trends
Podcast, you knowtraveltrendspodcast.com for more
information.
We do post clips and highlightsuh on our social channels.
You can find us on Instagram,LinkedIn, and YouTube at Travel
Trends Podcast.

(06:26:48):
And we're on all the streamingplatforms, so make sure you're
subscribed to be notified whennew episodes go live.
And until next time, thanksagain for joining us and safe
travels.

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