How The Amazing Race Inspired Millions to See the World with Elise Doganieri

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel
Trends Podcast.
This is your host, DanChristian, and today we have our
season seven series finale foryou and an amazing conversation
with the co-founder and producerof The Amazing Race, Elise
Doganieri.
And I cannot wait to bring thisconversation to all of our
listeners because it served as ahuge inspiration to me.

(00:27):
I am a massive fan of TheAmazing Race.
I had the privilege to meetElise earlier this year at the
Visit California conference.
And she kindly agreed to joinour Travel Trends podcast.
And when I say it's been aninspiration to me, not only is
it my favorite show because it'sall about travel and human
connection and bringing thesedestinations to life that really

(00:49):
has made a difference to ourtravel industry.
And I speak to her about that,as you'll hear in a moment, but
also because they're going intoseason 39 of their show in the
fall of 2026 as we begin seasoneight of Travel Trends in
September.
They will have their 40th seasonin 2027, a incredible

(01:10):
accomplishment and one that wehope to emulate one day with our
Travel Trends podcast.
But before we bring Elise intothe conversation and wrap up
season seven, I do want to say afew special thank yous.
First of all, I wanted to thankall of the guests for joining us
this season over 21 episodes.
And we've had more than 35guests join us for so many

(01:33):
incredible conversations thathave clearly provided a huge
amount of value to our listenersto help you grow your careers,
build your companies and traveland advance in the industry.
And that's exactly our missionfor bringing travel trends to
life each week or multiple timeseach week.
As many of our listeners know,we now do three episodes a week
Tuesday, Wednesday, andThursday.

(01:54):
Wednesday is always our mainepisode, but we have company
spotlights and event spotlights.
So our production has increasedconsiderably this year.
So my next thank you is to allof our listeners for being on
this journey with us.
You are the reason that weproduce this show.
You are the motivation for us tocontinue to improve.
And we have put together ourvery first listener survey,

(02:15):
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(02:37):
We actually are going to launcha store in season eight, and we
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So please take a few minutes andgive us your feedback so we can
make season eight, whichlaunches September 9th, as
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And of course, this wouldn't allbe possible without the support

(02:59):
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Thank you so much for believingin us and what we're building
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We have big aspirations for 2027and beyond, and a really
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So thank you again to all of oursponsors.

(03:21):
And don't forget, we are goingto be on the road throughout the
year at many industryconferences.
So check outtraveltrendspodcast.com/slash
events.
If we are at an event recordinga spotlight episode, we want you
to reach out to us so I can makesure that we record with you.
So check out the events.
Reach out if you're going to beat any of these events.
And then lastly, we have oursummit returning October 28th

(03:44):
and 29th.
And tickets are still free andavailable.
We want to maximize the reachthis year and our third year of
pulling our global summittogether.
And in August, we're going to beannouncing the full agenda, but
you can see many of the speakerstoday and get registered for the
conference October 28th and29th.
So check out our website forthat as well.
And then, of course, I would beremiss if I didn't thank the

(04:07):
team that I absolutely loveworking with every week to bring
this show together.
So, Catherine, Mel, Melissa,Zach, and Han, thank you for all
your efforts to make the show sospecial and to keep elevating
our game from season seven goinginto season eight.
So thank you everyone for beinga part of this journey.
And on that note, let's finishwith the incredible, inspiring,

(04:31):
and visionary Elise Doginieri,the co-founder and producer of
The Amazing Race.
Elise, welcome to Travel Trends.
So great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_02 (04:41):
Thank you, Dan.
It's great to be here.

SPEAKER_00 (04:42):
Wonderful.
I am so looking forward to thisconversation.
As you know, we had theprivilege to meet in California
a couple of months ago.
You kindly uh signed your newbook, which I'm holding up here
for those people who arewatching the video.
And as I told you then, and Ijust covered in the
introduction, I have been a hugefan of The Amazing Race for the
last 20 years.
I absolutely love your show andwas so delighted to meet you and

(05:06):
so keen to have you on thepodcast.
And the big reason, of course,uh obviously you're a terrific
person, it's accomplished a lot,and you have a very inspiring
story, but you've had such amassive impact on the travel
industry, the industry I love,and all of our global listeners.
And that's what I really wantedto explore in our conversation
is that you have shown the worldto many American viewers and
global viewers and done so in away that has actually encouraged

(05:28):
people to leave their comfortzone and actually explore the
world and actually discoverthemselves in the process.
And I've met, you know, I've hadso many impactful moments of the
show over the years.
So my first thing I wanted tosay to you was thank you,
because I do think a study needsto be done to understand the
true impact that the amazingrace has had on the travel

(05:49):
industry.
Um, so I wanted our listeners toknow that, but I would love to
start with a bit of thebackstory, which I've gotten up
to speed on after having achance to get to know you.
But would you mind sharing withall of our listeners uh a little
bit about the show that you'vecreated?
And you know, did you ever thinkwhen you started this that you
would have such an incredibleimpact on world culture and

(06:09):
millions of people?

SPEAKER_02 (06:10):
Wow, that was quite an introduction.
Thank you.
Um, when we first, you know,sold the show to CBS, we never
imagined.
We thought, okay, we sold ashow, that's exciting.
I we thought maybe one season,you know.
Um I had been working in theadvertising and doing graphic
design and working at all thebig agencies in New York and Los
Angeles.

(06:30):
And um this idea came aboutbecause my husband was on a trip
to Mipcom in France, and he cameback to tell me, you know, these
are the things that arehappening in the travel
industry.
My husband, Bertrand VanMunster, is an accomplished
producer, director, cameraman.

(06:51):
And I basically said, What's newin TV?
And he said, Really, not thatmuch.
And I I said, you know, how isthat possible?
Why can't somebody come up withan idea?
And he's oh, you think it's soeasy?
Why don't you come up with anidea?
And I said, Okay, I will.
Give me a minute.
And he goes, Oh, okay, I'll giveyou a minute.
But the first, and the firstthing that happened is I I had
this memory of traveling throughEurope backpacking with my

(07:12):
college roommate, Lori.
Um, we were gone for about fiveweeks.
Halfway through the trip, um, wehad an argument.
I was the person that was typeA, let's get up at six in the
morning.
Whole travel itinerary, had thelet's go Europe book.
We were traveling on URL passes,and um, we just, you know, she
woke up that morning and she'slike, I uh this is not Chevy

(07:34):
Chase's European vacation.
I'm gonna stay in today.
So we, you know, kind of did ourown thing that day, met back up
for dinner, and everything wasgood.
We needed a minute.
Um, and so from that experience,I said to Bert, why don't we do
a show that goes around theworld, two people who know each
other.
There'll be lots of drama.
Everybody has drama when they'retraveling with family and

(07:56):
friends, and let's have them dothe things the locals do in
different countries anddifferent cities.
And so the viewer couldexperience all the incredible
things that I experienced on ashoestring, basically.
And he was like, I like thatidea.
Why don't you write it up?
So I wrote it up.
Um, we shared it with our agentat CAA.
Um, we uh had a conversation.

(08:16):
They said, you know, JerryBruckheimer wants to get into
more of the television business.
He had just started, I believe,CSI.
And we partnered with Jerry,went in to pitch it to the
network, and we pitched all thenetworks, all the big ones.
Um, and we sold the show.
And I said, should I quit my jobin advertising?
He said, Well, wait a second.
We don't know if it's just gonnabe one season or more.

(08:39):
See if you can take a leave ofabsence.
So I was working at Ogilvie Maythere advertising and took a
leave of absence.
We sold the show in June of2000.
By August, we were standing infront of the Taj Mahal in India.
And I just was, I had to pinchmyself.
I couldn't believe it was real.

SPEAKER_00 (08:54):
Wow, it's such an inspiring story.
And and and I just wanted tohighlight that with your
background being in advertising,you work for some of the largest
ad firms in New York City beforemoving to Los Angeles.
You have a solid understandingof marketing, consumer behavior,
and you had this strong uhdesire and passion for travel,
traveling with your friendthrough Europe.
And the idea of combining thosetwo to create something truly

(09:16):
unique.
And the timing of it was just,you know, it was literally the
time that I entered the travelindustry was 2001, right after
the tragic September 11th.
And, you know, it what was veryinteresting, and it's a parallel
now to when we created this showpost-pandemic, was to understand
how traveler behavior changedpost-pandemic.
And traveler changed after 9-11for sure.
Obviously, travel uh droppedaway.

(09:36):
And that's another one of thosemilestone moments that and I I
still remember seeing the veryfirst episode of The Amazing
Race and being like falling inlove with it from the moment the
moment I saw that show and waslike, this is my wife and I also
agreed we we could never do theshow together because we could
we would absolutely embarrassourselves, but um because when
you when you see that sometimespeople do fall out when you

(09:57):
travel, um that does happen.
But we we were so in love withthe show, and the timing of it
was absolutely the right momentfor people to start realizing
how important it is to traveland experience different
cultures and and see the worlddifferently.
And so the one thing I was sokeen to ask you on that topic,
since you were able to get theshow successfully off the ground
at that time, what did did youknow you had a hit on the hand?

(10:18):
Uh did you know you had a hit onyour hand right away during the
production and that it reallyjust hit the mark as soon as you
get so it did for me as aviewer, but uh how did that
actually work from you from yourvantage point?
Did you did you know right fromthe beginning that this was
gonna be as successful as it'sbecome?

SPEAKER_02 (10:32):
Hey, you know, it's it's a very I'm gonna say there
was a moment of, you know, youget like this excitement of
butterflies in your stomach whenwe the the first day of filming
when Phil says go.
Um and I just thought, oh, thisis this is bigger than we ever
imagined.
So, you know, we're we're in NewYork City, it's March of 2000

(10:56):
and it's freezing.
It's also snowing like the daybefore.
It's and we're standing atBethesda founded fountain, all
the teams are lined up, and Philis, you know, giving his start
line, you know, speech.
And there was so muchexcitement.
Everybody was excited becausenobody had ever done anything
like this before.
How are we gonna run aftercontestants with camera crews, a

(11:17):
sound person, and a cameraperson chasing two people all
over the world?
Like it was a big, big, youknow, a big adventure, a big
like, let's see what happens.
And the network was standingthere, and Phil says go.
The contestants race to theirbackpacks, open the clue, and
says, get to JFK.
And we're all standing there,like, oh, that was great.
And then we realized they'realready ahead of us.

(11:39):
So the energy of that moment, wewe realized we had something
bigger on our hands than what wefirst thought about because it
was nonstop.
It's we're shooting a livesporting event pretty much every
day for three and a half weeks.
So, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
And that's the part that's out to me because it just
it just worked from the momentuh I set my eyes on the show.
And and for so many other peoplethat worked in the travel
industry, I know from theconversations that we were
having at the time when the uhthe show first appeared, just it
was uh so revolutionary.
Like the fact that even youknow, when you guys started
winning all these Emmys, I knowyou've won 15 Emmys and you

(12:13):
know, then seeing you and theteam on stage and especially
winning for editing, becausethat's obviously the magic that
comes together when you'rewatching the episodes and the
drama unfolds when you're notsure who's gonna turn that
corner and who's gonna get tothe mat first.
And you guys do it so well thatit's it's uh and I I I was I
mentioned to Elise just beforewe uh started recording, there's

(12:34):
few, if any, other reality showsthat I enjoy.
This is literally the only onethat falls into that category.
And you go, you guys reallybuilt this genre at the same
time.
This and you you won the firstaward for a reality show.
And I know it is a reality show,but at the same time, I don't I
don't place it in the samecategory as all the other
reality shows because it is sospecial and unique and does
something different, which isnot to focus uh overwhelmingly

(12:58):
on the human drama element.
You're really focusing on thetravel drama, which is so common
to all of us that love thisindustry and love traveling
around the world.

SPEAKER_02 (13:06):
That's a big part of it.
I, you know, I have to just goback for a second to, you know,
I had the idea for the show, butmy husband, Bertram and Munster,
had all the connections and theexperience.
So before we did the AmazingRace, he did a show called Wild
Things for Paramount.
And that was a show where theyfilmed wildlife all around the

(13:27):
world.
And Bertram had made all theseconnections with all these
fixers, facilitators all overthe world throughout Asia and
Africa.
And it was because of thatcombination, him, his contacts
and production experience and myidea that we were able to sell
this show, that the networktrusted that we could pull this
off.
But going back to what the showbecame after that first season

(13:48):
of filming, um, there was somuch excitement when we brought
the footage back to the officeand the editors were excited by
the material.
And I'm telling you, we had alot of material.
Imagine, you know, I think theremight have been 13 teams.
We we go between 11, 12, and 13teams.
We had 14 once, that was a lot.
Um, every contestant team has acamera crew shooting all day

(14:09):
long, every day.
So just the amount of coverageand footage that we came home
with was an enormous feat to getthrough.
So we had an incredible team ofeditors, and we have an
incredible team of editors, andwe have a way of doing it.
But um, when we started seeingsome of the footage and the
things that the contestantssaid, because it's not scripted,
right?
Everybody has experienced thisin real time.

(14:32):
Um, especially that firstseason, which was so special, we
literally had one contestantteam bring a pair of
rollerblades with them.
They thought they were gonnarollerblade around the world.
And I was like, uh, that's notgonna work everywhere,
especially on those cobblestonestreets if you go to Europe, you
know.
But um, there was there wasdefinitely a feeling of
excitement and thinking, I thinkthis is something that's gonna

(14:52):
be very big.
And yeah, the world needed ashow like this.
You know, a lot of people don'talways think about travel, but
if they do, they think of veryspecific places to go and they
keep it safe.
But once they started seeing ourshow, they were like, I've never
thought about going to Moroccoor Iceland or Thailand.
Those are big trips, bigexperiences.

(15:13):
And I think that's what wereally showed the viewer that
you can go anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 (15:17):
Yeah, the the world definitely did, still does, and
that's why I'm thrilled that theshow has continued to go from
success to success.
And now there's regionalvariations of the show.
You've had such a big impact onnot only the travel industry,
but the wider culture.
And so, you know, you I'm basedin Toronto, so the the the
Amazing Race Canada.
I've also watched a number ofthe different other shows that

(15:37):
have been inspired by orspin-offs, if you will.
But the for me, I love theformat and I always learn so
much from every episode.
And then I, like many travelers,then are very keen to see these
places for myself.
Or you're also, as a traveler,when you see a place you've been
to.
And so this is one of the thingsI wanted to ask you is you know,
when people see the race, theysee the drama, they see these

(15:58):
beautiful destinations aroundthe world.
I know how much time and effortI've come to understand that you
specifically put into this.
I mean, that's obviously I Ienjoy watching Phil as a
terrific host of the show, butknowing how much goes on behind
the scenes to, you know, overthe course, this was the thing I
found staggering as I wasreading and preparing for our
conversation, is that youproduce 12 90-minute episodes

(16:21):
over the course of 25 dayscircumnavigating the globe.
Like that's just and that andyou and you do that twice a year
because the like, and you uh youdo the casting and like so.
Tell us, like for someone likemyself and our listeners that
you that is um and just enjoyingthe production, tell us a little
bit more what's happening behindthe scenes that viewers would

(16:41):
not really expect or understand.
And your point about the editingbecause not knowing what you
have to work with until you getback and start cutting
everything up to figure out howyou're gonna create a narrative
arc and tie the storylinestogether and create the drama
and intrigue.
So, yeah, tell tell us a littlebit more about the behind the
scenes.

SPEAKER_02 (16:57):
You're making me tired thinking about all of it.
Um yes, there is there's so muchthat goes on behind the scenes.
I we really have to do a behindthe scenes, you know, of the
amazing race because it is arace behind the race.
We are literally racing to stayup and keep up and get ahead of
the contestants.
Um, it takes months and monthsof preparation, right?
So we're the the reason we'reable to do the show in 25 days

(17:20):
is because of all the prep workthat goes into it.
And it's months in advance.
It's it's five months, sixmonths in advance.
So we could be starting, youknow, thinking about the route,
putting the, you know, there's awe have a room in our office
where we have a map that is, youknow, almost the end, it's it's
probably 20 by 10 feet.
And we literally map out therace with little pin, little

(17:42):
pins and a string and say, wherehave we been?
Where do we want to go back?
You know, how do we create a lotof different places, like warm
places, cold places, culturaldiversity?
Um, and so the planning startsthere, and this then the
scouting begins, the researchand the scouting.
Once we lay out our route, um,we decide what cities we want to

(18:03):
go to.
We start reaching out to ourlocal facilitators and set up
the dates for the scout.
Um, while we're doing that,we're researching and
researching what airlines go todifferent locations, what
trains, what buses.
So it is it is a traveler'sdream.
We have an incredible traveldepartment that works on visas
and flights.
Um, and then our producersfigure out the train schedules

(18:26):
and the buses.
And we have a document that'scalled the Fast Slow.
In that fast slow, we list allthe flight possibilities they
can get on this specific datewhen they are flying into a
location, and then all theplaces that they can exit
through.
Um, along with that, you know,what hotels are we booking?
You know, rental cars, we haveto hire a local team.
There are thousands of peoplethat we hire that work on the

(18:49):
show locally in a country.
Um, so the scouting goes on forabout two months, and then the
casting uh begins.
The scouting is where we figureout where we're going, what
we're doing, what the challengesare gonna look like.
And then while we're out therescouting, our casting team is
getting all the casting reelstogether so we can sit down and

(19:10):
start doing some Zoom sessionswith the cast, the potential
cast.
When we go to finals for that,we fly everybody out, we meet
them in person.
Um, so the locations get locked,the cast gets locked, and then
we get ready to shoot.
But that's a like a five to sixmonth period.
Our shooting schedule is laidout well in advance.

(19:30):
Um, yes, 25 days, 12 90-minuteepisodes, and it is like a
military operation.
Um, we fly the challenge teamahead, the art department ahead,
the producers fly ahead to theirspecific countries.
We have about nine producers,and typically we'll do like six
countries and cities withinthat.

(19:51):
Um, so they're about they'rethere about a week in advance.
And then the filming begins,which is literally we are all at
the start line, you know, we'reall waiting for Phil to say go.
We all get on the planetogether, and we have an
advanced team that makes surethat everything is set in place.
And then once that first episodeis completed, we will fly ahead.

(20:13):
They will go into a pit stop andsleep, you know, overnight 24 to
36 hours while the production,we are now advancing to do a
full run through.
It's called an executive runthrough with challenge, art
department, and the producer inthe next country.
And then we're getting ready,we're, you know, putting the
clues in envelopes, gettingready, making sure art is ready,

(20:33):
challenge is ready.
And then the contestants landand we film that show, they
check into the pit stop and wefly the next location.
And it is that sort of uh, youknow, it's like a live sporting
event pretty much every otherday or every two days.

SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
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SPEAKER_00 (22:59):
And now back to the show.
One of the things that stood outto me as a fan and a viewer of
the show is how respectful youare of local cultures and the
environment and how you'reoperating.
So that's one of the things Iwas also keen to understand
because that to me is, I think,one of the reasons that the
travel industry and all of ourlisteners will be so delighted
to hear from you.
And I know as I was when youspoke on stage of Visit

(23:20):
California, one of the thingsyou shared on stage that I found
really intriguing was that youknow when you're picking these
destinations, you have to pick adestination that people won't
get stuck in, that you have tomake sure that's a hub that you
can get people in and out ofquite easily.
And I was like, of course youdo, because you need to keep the
show momentum moving.
So there's all these logisticalthings you have to consider, but
then there's also the thecultural impact and being
respectful.

(23:40):
And I think one of the thingsthat uh many, many of us have
taken away from the show iswe've we've learned not only the
beauty of the world, but ofdifferent cultures.
And so when they're doing thedifferent challenges, you know,
you very intentionally buildthose in.
So I was just keen to ask youabout that because I'm sure
there is it's challenging tobalance the authenticity in the
storytelling with somechallenging real-world

(24:02):
environments.
So, how intentional do you haveto be about that?
And and in terms of scriptingthat aspect of it, that you're
going to a specific destinationand here's you want what you
want to highlight.
And and do some of the out ofcuriosity tourism boards or you
know, are they activelycollaborating with you as well
to make sure that you know youshowcase the destination uh not
only in the best possible light,but also be reflective and

(24:22):
mindful of uh culture, language,and everything else that's
unique about a place?

SPEAKER_02 (24:28):
All of that.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofthings that we take going into
location to be respectful and umand make sure that we are um you
know, highlighting all thebeauty of the culture, the
country, and everything that'sencompassed in that place.
Um one of the things that wereally pride ourselves on is

(24:49):
that we get invited back timeand time again.
Please, please come to ourcountry, our city, um, the film
commission, the tourism boards,um the embassies.
You know, we are welcome backbecause we like to leave a place
better than we left it.
You know, I know that's a sayinga lot of people say, but we
actually do that.
Um many times the things that wemight build or set up, we leave

(25:14):
them behind so they can usewhatever we're leaving behind.
Um, we've also embraced givingback to different places.
For example, in Tanzania, one ofthe challenges was building
desks for a school.
Uh, so the contestants had tobuild the desks and put them
into the classroom.
Uh, there was there's achallenge we did in Ethiopia
where they put roofs onto ahouse.

(25:36):
Um if there's any place that wecan give back in Vietnam, we
built a fishing village.
So we we we mimicked what thelocals do in the fishing village
where they're they're peddlingwith their feet to bring these
nets up out of the water.
We we built those brand new netsfor them.
We added so we could have enoughfor the contestants.
So always giving back and beingrespectful is a big piece of of

(25:59):
what we do.
And we want to make sure that,you know, we're welcome back
because we we want this tocontinue forever.
It's also a huge commercial forany city or location that we go
to.
A 90-minute episode is a hugepromotional piece for any place
that we go to because we areshowing the best of the best.
And there's a lot of humor inour show too.

(26:21):
You know, you see thecontestants trying to do
something that a local does,whether it's a local dance or
they're trying to cook a specialmeal, um, folding things in a
certain way and heating, youknow, getting ingredients from a
local market, not speaking thelanguage.
Um, there's a lot of humorwatching us as Americans do it,
um, but with respect always tolook how hard this is.

(26:41):
Look at this is not so easy, youknow.
This is the local culture.
Let's have some respect.

SPEAKER_00 (26:46):
And I'm convinced that's why it has been so
lasting.
And obviously that will be thecontinued legacy of the show,
even though you're still in fullflight and production.
And I'm gonna ask you, I'm verykeen to know the future, despite
the fact you're you know,episode uh series 39 going into
series 40.
Like you guys are, this is youknow, incredible milestones.
But I think it all ties back tothe core concept and how you've

(27:06):
been able to really successfullyexecute on and the positive
impact you've had.
So I'd love to explore that alittle bit more, especially as
it relates to where you've seenthe direct influence around
where people travel, because I'msure that those tourism boards,
after they've been featured,they see a 30% increase in
travelers to the destinations.
And then obviously thathopefully sets you up for
further uh collaborations thatevery everyone is putting their

(27:29):
hand up to say, Amazing Race,come come to my country, come to
my town.
Like, yeah, please come.
Yeah.
So what have you what could youshare with us what you've seen
about the influence that AmazingRace has had?

SPEAKER_02 (27:40):
Yeah, it's it's been enormous, honestly.
Um, I I don't think we realizedit in the very beginning when we
first started the show, um, butI'm seeing it more and more as
time goes on.
Um, since I've been doing theshow since 2000, and I was
scouting places, early 2000s, soplaces like Vietnam or Iceland,

(28:00):
uh, Thailand, Dubai, probablythe biggest change I've seen in
tourism.
Um, for example, Iceland.
We did a, we've been thereseveral times.
We love going to Iceland.
Um, and basically what they thetourism board did is they took
everything we put into anepisode and they called it Trace
the Race.
And they created tourismpackages for their visitors to

(28:22):
do everything that you saw onthe amazing race.
So that was a huge impact.
Um, there is um, we went toNorway in season five, I
believe.
Um, into Oslo, there's a skijump, an Olympic ski jump, the
Holman Collins ski jump in Oslo.
I had the idea to do a zip linedown the slope so uh so a

(28:43):
participant could experiencewhat it's like for an Olympic
skier to look down that thatjump and experience after we did
the rigging and everything likethat, and we did it in the show,
they built an actual zip linethat you've, you know, anybody
can go to and and try it andhave that experience that you
had on the amazing race.
Um so I know we had an impactthere.

(29:05):
Um, it's part of you know theirtourism packages.
Uh, Dubai, for example, when wefirst started going there early,
early 2000s, it was this fishingvillage with, you know, gold
suks and it was a very, youknow, what I would call, you
know, not rural, but it wasstill not modern.
You go now and everything ismodern.

(29:26):
You've got the burge, you've gotthe frame, everything is modern.
So there's there's this place inDubai.
It's it's this building theybuilt.
It's called the Frame.
And it's it is a frame.
You can go up to the top and goto the center and look out in
one direction and see old Dubai,and then turn around and see
modern Dubai.
So they are showing, you know,kind of the before and after all

(29:48):
this growth, technology, and youknow, everything that's built up
Dubai.
It's become a hub for people tovisit now.
I did not see tourists in Dubaiwhen I was first traveling
there, and now everyone wants togo to Dubai.
Same with Vietnam.
It was all locals.
I was the fish out of waterthere, you know, walking around
and nobody spoke English.

(30:09):
There were very few touristsearly 2000.
Now we have created such a trendfor people going to these little
places, Hanoi, you know, Ho ChiMinh, um Hoyan.
It's it's just exploded.
I feel this show has reallybrought travel and tourism, you
know, higher up to where it hasbeen in the past.

(30:30):
It's elevated it.

SPEAKER_00 (30:31):
For sure.
And the one thing I'd alsocredit you with that uh many of
our uh colleagues in the travelindustry will surely uh attest
to is the fact that we have seenover the last certainly 10 or 20
years much more desire forimmersive experience-driven
travel.
And certainly, you know, therewas this uh era of experiences
over things.
And I had the uh the founder ofViator on our podcast, Rod

(30:53):
Cuthbert, who's Australian, andhe was telling me that that when
they launched that business, itwas really when we were moving
away from the Gordon Geckomoney, creed is good, he who
dies of the most toys winstowards uh which none of us
liked.
Clearly, we're similar in thatregard.
But to the idea of umexperiences over things, that
you can't take it with you.
And so there was a culturalshift happening.

(31:13):
And while that was occurring,this I but it it's it's evolved
so much since then to be muchmore immersive to the point now
where uh people are trulytalking about transformative
travel, travel that you comeback changed.
And I always saw adventuretravel and the amazing race as
having that benefit.
And at the end of the show, nomatter when someone was
eliminated from the race and youhad that moment to speak to

(31:34):
them, and you know, even if itwas the first episode, they
would always highlight what animpact it's had on their
relationship, their view of theworld.
And that to me is the ultimatetestimony to um uh the amazing
content you're producing and theexperiences that people are
having.
And I think what most of us inthe travel industry are uh
optimistic when someone comesback from a trip, that that's
the reaction that you're hopingfor.

(31:55):
And so along those lines, Iwould love to know if what your
sense is, as you've seen travelchange in the last 20 years, do
you see that the viewers aremore interested in immersive and
experience-driven travel becauseof a show like Amazing Race?

SPEAKER_02 (32:08):
Absolutely, a hundred percent.
I think um in the past, travelwas more about getting to a
destination, seeing it, taking apicture, and moving on.
Oh, I went to the museum, I sawthe statue, I I'm I'm in, I'm in
Italy, I'm in Rome, I'm seeingthe Colosseum.
Our show is immersive.
Um, and I think that has broughtthat to the forefront, watching

(32:29):
the contestants being immersedin a culture, cooking a dish
with the locals, um, sleeping ina yurt in Mongolia, you know,
um, where, you know, they're notstaying in a hotel.
They're sleeping in somethingthat a local that lives in
Mongolia would sleep in.
They're experiencing the trueimmersive feeling of that

(32:49):
culture.
Um, doing a local dance thatthey would never do, you know,
because, you know, it's just notpart of what we're doing here.
We're going to the nightclubs orwhatever, but they are there are
many traditional dances.
There's many traditional dishes.
So cooking, enjoying the food,uh, stepping into a theater,
standing on a stage in a theaterin Austria that no one would

(33:12):
ever get that chance to do,dancing with a local group, you
know, orchestra or band playingthat music, and you're in the
costume, you are actually livingin that moment, in that culture,
and you can really feel it.
So I do believe that that hashad a true effect on the
contestants and what they takefrom it.
Not only does it transform whothey are as a team, uh, it's an

(33:35):
experience like no other.
Uh, they, you know, there havebeen, you know, siblings, there
have been best friends, therehave been couples who this has
transformed their life.
They go home and then they goback on the road again and they
want to do exactly what theyjust experienced.
So I like to think that um ourshow has brought the the world
closer together and that we canembrace other cultures.

(33:57):
There's a moment with umcontestants Terry and Ian early
on in early seasons where wewent to Vietnam and Ian had been
in the Vietnam War and he he hadlike anxiety when he ripped open
the clue and it said, You'regoing to Vietnam.
And he was like, I, you know, hejust didn't know how he was
going to feel about being backthere.
And it brought him to tears.

(34:19):
It brought us to tears becausehe finally got to experience a
beautiful side of a country thathe had a very different
experience in.
Because I think the thestrongest thing that I take away
from travel is we are all morealike than we are different.
And if you just say hello,smile, and and you're being kind

(34:40):
and respectful, most of the timeyou're gonna get the same back.
And that's shocking for peopleon both sides of the border,
right?
You you know, um, once you putthat smile on your face and you
say hello, and you know, it justopens up a world of opportunity.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:54):
Well, I just want to share something really quickly
just to um share with you theimpact that the amazing race and
that particular episode has hadon our lives.
We actually did a six-month uhbackpack trip around uh
Southeast Asia and we had notbeen to Vietnam before.
And I specifically remember thatepisode and I remember that
moment and how powerful it was.
And I, when we were traveling inVietnam, even our family members
seeing and knowing the VietnamWar and the connection to the

(35:16):
places that we were traveling.
But one really cool thing,Elise, we brought our kids there
the next time because we were sokeen for them to see Vietnam and
the culture and the history andhow it's changed.
And we were staying in Hanoi andwe st we splashed out and stayed
at the Sofotel after having donedone some more um uh budget
backpacker traveler, and that'ssomething we do every once in a
while.
You know, you splash out andhave a nice day.
And uh John care John Kerry wasstaying there, and he was you

(35:39):
know, he's very much a hero inVietnam, and he had no security
around him whatsoever.
We saw him multiple times in thehotel.
My kids got to meet him, we gotto shake his hand, and it was a
really nice moment.
And he was he was there uh uhhaving meetings in the business
lounge, and he had some papersthat were printed off, and my
kids found them and gave them tohim.
Like he was just very open,accessible, and it was you know
just a part of this history.

(36:00):
But you know, you opened oureyes to Vietnam with that
episode, and now all of a suddenwe've had the opportunity to
have been there multiple times,and our kids now have a totally
different view of the world byvirtue of traveling there.
And so Yeah, so it's it's makesme so happy.

SPEAKER_02 (36:16):
I I love that that you brought your kids there, and
and we did go to the prisonwhere John McCain was.
Yes.
Uh we had a moment in the show.
Um, we have moments like thatthroughout our episodes that
are, you know, educational,secretly educational.
You know, we went to RobinIsland in South Africa where
Nelson Mandela, we went toSenegal and went to the door of

(36:40):
no return, where you know,slaves were going onto the boats
to be taken away.
Um we went to um, you know, theconcentration camps in Poland to
Auschwitz and and places like,you know, that are part of our
our history, our world history.
And, you know, we can't forget,you have to remember, but you
also have to uh, you know, go tothese places to educate

(37:05):
ourselves on what people havegone through to get us to where
we are today or to be where weare today.
Um and also all the positivethings that have happened in the
world, the positive change.
So reflecting on things in thepast where change needed to
happen and then moving forwardinto the modern world, um, but
also taking care of our world,you know.

(37:26):
Um there's a lot going on thatis destructive that we just need
to make sure that we do takecare of each other and our world
so we can have places to traveland visit.

SPEAKER_00 (37:36):
Absolutely.
And just as you mentioned, theuh John McCain with the Han Oi
Hilton, and we went there asafter seeing it on the show as
well, and to see you know,because you see, you know, uh
unfortunately he's passed now,but he couldn't lift his arm,
his arm was injured, and thenyou know he is was subject to
all sorts of abuse.
But yet he was, you know, um uha key to the peace and ongoing

(37:56):
relationship.
And so just to be able to seeand and have a better
understanding, and so you youpointed out several incredible
examples of that, Robin Islandbeing another.
And this this is where umknowing how impactful it's been
to the viewers, the the theother thing I was keen to ask
you, Elise, is like being on theflip side of that, knowing that
you are looking at ratings, ofcourse, because obviously that's
always a big factor, and how sohow many people are watching

(38:16):
each of the seasons andembracing the show?
One of the things I was keen toask you is how have you adapted
the show over the years based onthat?
Because if you have a momentwhere an audience member like me
has that moment with Vietnam andthen you're building in these
other experiences, I wouldassume that that is also
connected to the fact thatyou're having this impact on
viewers and viewers want more ofthat.
So, yeah, what what have youbeen looking at at over the

(38:39):
years in terms of viewership andthe audience response to the
show?
And how much impact has that hadon how the show has evolved?

SPEAKER_02 (38:46):
Uh the show definitely has evolved.
Um, the the wonderful thing isthe we have people auditioning
or we have people trying out forthe show that said, I've been
watching this show since I wassix years old with my mom and
dad who were fans.
So it has gone to the nextgeneration.
And those are the people thatare applying, those are the
people who are also nowwatching, or it's a family

(39:07):
viewing show.
Um so it has evolved uh, youknow, in so many ways, um, even
just in technology.
I mean, we used to communicatevia sat phones and now we're
sending messages via WhatsApp.
Why couldn't send a photo?
It took like, you know, twohours just to send an image over
the internet, and now we're justin seconds you get a video.

(39:29):
Um, but the evolution of theshow, the something that you
know we always hold true to isour casting.
Um we like a very wide net, avery diverse group of cast
members, some people that havetraveled, some people that have
not traveled.
And they we see we see our showthrough the through their eyes,

(39:50):
right?
Through their experiences.
You know, they rip open theenvelope, they don't know where
they're going.
So the excitement for the vieweris always the same.
And the world is ever evolving,right?
And locations and places arechanging.
So when we go back to a placethat we haven't been to in a
while, like, you know, Mumbai oruh Delhi or something, or we go

(40:11):
to Sri Lanka, um, it's new everytime.
So I think the viewer loves tosee that, you know, they could
see themselves traveling on theshow, you know, whether they go
with their mom or their dad ortheir boyfriend or their
partner.
Um, everyone that watches thisshow can see themselves on the
show or has a similar experienceand says, Oh my gosh, I remember

(40:31):
when we were driving that rentalcar and we got lost and I got so
frustrated.
So there's always a commondenominator for the viewer.
Everybody, you know, alwayswants to take a little trip
somewhere, maybe not as far asSri Lanka or, you know, Namibia,
but it it inspires people to dothat.
So I still like to think thatthat inspiration is there and we

(40:52):
can all see ourselves in thecontestants' eyes when we're
watching the show.
I hope that answers thequestion.

SPEAKER_00 (40:57):
I don't know if I It definitely does.
One of the things that stood outto me, you know, absolutely
does, because I'm you yourenthusiasm um for kids and and
the next generation, our kidsare both in first year
university.
We have twins.
They've also grown up watchingThe Amazing Race with us, and we
love season eight because thatwas the family season.
So there's four winners in thatinstance.
Yeah, you know, um the one thingI was also intrigued because I

(41:19):
was uh preparing for ourconversation and looking at all
the winners and some of thecommonality amongst them.
Because with there being 38seasons, the 39th coming out
later this September, Iunderstand.
Is that right?

SPEAKER_02 (41:29):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (41:30):
It's roughly in the fall, yes.
And so in the fall andSeptember.
Yeah, and then in 2027, we'llhave season 40 of the show.
But one of the things I wasintrigued was looking at the
commonalities, because weessentially what we were trying
to do is figure out who was bestpositioned, because my wife and
I realized when it came to thechallenges, that's not something
we would want to be on TVstruggling with.
We love traveling, but we knewthat those time pressures would

(41:52):
not bring out the best qualitiesfor us.

SPEAKER_03 (41:54):
It's stressful.

SPEAKER_00 (41:55):
Yeah, and so we thought my wife would love to go
with our daughter, and I wouldlove to go with my son.
We or that combination, like thefather-son or uh mother-daughter
combination, we thought could bereally powerful.
And the so the one thing I didto and as getting ready for a
conference, what is the mostcommon thing amongst the winners
of the amazing race?
And this was the summary out ofthe you know, 38 races, 76 plus

(42:17):
winners uh over the course ofthat time, is it's not a
superhero, so you know, oneindividual.
And this is also what I loveabout it.
It's two people who communicateclearly, stay calm under chaos,
adapt quickly, and trust eachother completely.

SPEAKER_02 (42:30):
You nailed it.

SPEAKER_00 (42:31):
That combin that combination beats raw strength,
speed, or intelligence.
So, and you see those peoplethat think they have those other
things, and it's just like,yeah, no, it's it's the teams
that like they thrive well underpressure together and can solve
challenges, and then they canrecall back.
They know going through therace, things that they are gonna
be, there's gonna be a callback,and they're prepared for that
because they've made notes andthey've like, you know, that's

(42:52):
the teams that are smart.

SPEAKER_02 (42:54):
It's smart thinking, it's staying calm under a lot of
pressure.
Um, there's also some luckinvolved.
You know, you could get in ataxi and the taxi driver doesn't
know where he's going.
That's that's part of the thethe luck of the draw with the
race.
But um, you nailed it.
Um, it is the communication thatis really important and hearing
your partner or even justreading a clue.

(43:15):
It's you know, read your clue,read your clue.
We say it so many times.
They will be so, you know, therewas so much adrenaline, they'll
read the clue and they'll missan important note, you know, you
must walk or you must take atrain.
Next thing you know, they're ina taxi and then they've got a
penalty or something like that.
So it is really taking a momentto not necessarily stop down,
but take a moment to breathe andlook.

(43:37):
But the thing that I I love themost and which I do find is
common with a lot of our winnersis they do take the time to
enjoy a little bit of theirsurroundings and the people that
they're seeing.
Um, it's the teams that arehaving fun with it, with the
race, the teams that are havingfun with the race and taking a
look and saying, look where weare.
We're riding in a rickshaw.
Um, or I'm driving a rickshaw,or I'm driving on the other side

(43:59):
of the road.
And I can't believe I'm doingthis.
And this is scary, but I loveit.
Or they'll talk to a local andthey'll ask directions and they
won't speak the language.
So they'll draw pictures.
It's those moments ofconnectivity that I get the most
enjoyment out of that I thinkreally helps the contestant
experience what they need toexperience and take that to the

(44:22):
finish line.
You know, there's a lot ofmoments where I just see people
enjoying themselves and they sitback.
If they're on a train ride, justlike think about where you are
going through the countryside,going from Beijing to Mongolia
on a, you know, a 14 or 15-hourtrain ride.
It's an experience.
Just enjoy that moment, bepresent because you can't go
anywhere else at that momentanyway.

(44:43):
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (44:43):
And when we had that difficult time during COVID and
travel came roaring backafterwards, which we all knew
that it would, but obviouslythat was a very challenging time
for all of us, certainly in thetravel industry, and it directly
connects to the creation of theshow because what essentially we
wanted to uncover is howtraveler behavior had changed
post-pandemic.
What was the same, what wasdifferent.
And I'd love to ask you aquestion along the same lines

(45:04):
because clearly when the showcame back, all of a sudden
people could embrace travelagain.
And the, you know, havingsomething taken taken away from
you like that and not knowingwhen it's going to come back,
once you could get access to itagain, we saw this revenge
travel, which is a term I don'tlove, but it's obviously it's
it's it's you know, there wasthis like coil that sprung back
and everyone started travelingagain.

(45:25):
And some people traveled, youknow, they went to the
destinations that they couldn'tget to and now they could.
But a lot of people, we saw achange in people's interests in
sustainability because we sawthe impact on the planet when
all of a sudden there weren'tplanes in the sky uh and ships
sailing.
And so we we kind of got to seewhat the world looked like when
it stood still for a period oftime.
And people, by and large, tendedto travel more thoughtfully um

(45:48):
and being more mindful abouttheir impact.
And so we've definitely seensome of those elements.
I was just curious when youstarted up the show again
post-pandemic, did you noticeany shift in the contestants or
even the audiences and how theyresponded to the show?

SPEAKER_02 (46:02):
Oh, it was such a it was such a time, right?
So, yes, our show is all abouttravel and and all visiting the
world and all the differentlocations.
So yeah, we we did shut, weactually shut down mid-race.
Um we we were filming.
We were in the field filming.
Uh it was the end of February,started hearing these things

(46:22):
like, you know, we had we weregoing to go to Italy, was one of
the next places uh a coupleepisodes down, and we had heard
that things were kind of pickingup there.
So we, you know, on the phonewith the network, um, shut the
show down.
We were down for 19 months andcame back, and everybody was
hesitant to go back out.
Um, we actually did do a charteruh just to make sure that we

(46:46):
were safe, but we wanted to givetourism and travel a boost, and
we also wanted to get our showback out there.
We wanted to finish up season33.
So we were able to do it.
Um, people were a littlehesitant, but also people, once
we realized that we feltcomfortable again, it just took
a minute to kind of give it areboot.
Um, we got out there and peoplewere so excited that the show

(47:09):
came back and that we finishedup season 33.
Um, and then after that, umthere were less people on
flights for a while.
Um, but it's it it did.
I mean, the word revenge travel,I think it came back with a
vengeance.
I think now, um, like forexample, Barcelona has so much
tourism, they're just like,please slow down a little bit,
you know.

(47:29):
It's like people just werebottled up for so long, they
just couldn't wait to get backout there again.
And um I do think people aremuch more aware of their circ,
their, you know, where we are inthe world, their environment,
and very careful.
And I like to think that peopletake trips now also um as part
of um groups that, you know,want to help the environment and

(47:52):
clean up.
And, you know, if you're goingon a trip to do something very
specific, but then you maybe youspend a day cleaning up a beach
or volunteering somewhere.
I always think that's a nice wayto experience a location.
Do something fun and excitingand enjoy the good food and the
hotel and and all the wonderfulplaces to see, but also maybe
you can give back a little bit.

(48:12):
That's what we like to do, youknow.

SPEAKER_00 (48:14):
Yeah, that and that's very clear.
And I think that's what's youknow certainly helped us
post-pandemic is that you know,having the amazing race back
continuing to inspire people,but also knowing that traveler
behavior has evolved and changedover that time.
And one of the things that I wasalso uh keen to ask you along
those lines is that um when as aviewer, and we look at the

(48:35):
locations that you're clearlyvery conscientious,
conscientious and choosing, um,in that post-pandemic world,
what were some of thedestinations you decided to go
to that you had maybe hadn'tyet?
And what what ultimately makes agreat location for the amazing
race?
What it because it's clearlymore than just a beautiful place
to visit.
There's so much thought andconsideration that has to go
into it.
So yeah, what what yeah, whatwhat makes a great amazing race

(48:58):
location?

SPEAKER_02 (48:59):
The first thing that comes to mind is India in
general.
Um, whether it's down in thesouth in Cochin, where you have
palm trees and it's like verylush uh Jaipur, where they have,
you know, fortresses andelephants.
There's there's such a diversityin that country because it's so
large.
But it also gives the viewer andthe contestant um such a

(49:23):
perspective of who they are andwhere they come from, in
contrast to what they're seeingand seeing and experiencing
because of the size of thepopulation, or a cow crossing
the street, and you have to giveway, not just to a pedestrian,
but to a camel crossing thestreet because they're highly
respected.
Um so um I just bringing them toa place that, you know, after

(49:46):
COVID might have felt likethere's such a big population,
you know, is it too scary to gohere?
And saying, no, it's not.
Let's go there and let's let'sgo to Jaipur, you know, like uh
we did a show in Jaipur.
And I I just think we get somuch out of places that are so
culturally diverse with food,language, uh just the

(50:07):
environment itself, uh, hornshonking and like I said, cows
crossing the street, rickshawsdriving by, just traffic
congestion, just it's just wild,but it is exciting and thrilling
at the same time.
And I get so much energy fromgoing to places like this.
I just I want to stay longer.
I I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (50:26):
Well, and that's where I think what we've what we
typically see in the travelindustry and and from the
experience of uh promotingdifferent types of uh adventure
holidays or uh uh small grouptours is that people gradually
travel further afield as theybuild up their confidence.
So it's very rare that afirst-time traveler, say from
North America, is gonna go toAfrica.

(50:46):
It does happen, but by andlarge, they are gonna travel
domestically in the US, they'regonna go to Vegas, they're gonna
go to Miami, and they may go toAlaska, like Alaska is kind of
the frontier, and then they mayconsider going to Costa Rica,
and then oh, they might do aEuropean trip.
And so India is not gonna be oneof those, it's that's that's you
know, that might be and so thisis the part I find so
fascinating about the amazingrace as well, is that getting

(51:08):
these destinations in front ofpeople that might not have even
considered them, and then thatpost-pandemic is getting people
when we were afraid of eachother for uh uh that period of
time.
I'm sure we all look back, andmyself, like we were living in
LA and we were playingpickleball, wearing masks, and I
know myself.
I know like it's just like itwas so ridiculous now, and we
look back to it.
But uh it was yeah, we yeah,exactly.

(51:29):
We were outside.
Um much of it was necessary andneeded, but the fact scary
times.
It was scary.
But this is the beauty of travelis meeting people and getting
out into those uh environmentsthat you need.
So that's why I was very curiousto know what it looked like
post-pandemic for you and thisteam.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (51:47):
We need connection.
It's it's it's it's really sadwhen you're, you know, you know,
it might have been okay for thefirst month or two, and all of a
sudden we're cooking and we'respending a lot of time with our,
you know, our our littlehousehold, our family.
Um, but after a while, we needhuman connection.
We're social beings.
That's that's what makes us whowe are.
We want to be out and engagewith nature and people.

(52:10):
So it was it was very difficult.
Um, you know, something that Ialso noticed is there was a big,
seems like a big surgence ofpeople traveling to Japan this
year.
Um we were just we just did anepisode in Kyoto, and we did it
along with Expedia, where we hadthis sumo wrestling challenge.
They had to, you know, getdressed in the in the

(52:31):
traditional sumo garb, and thenthey did a little sumo moment,
um, and also making mochi.
Um these these again areexperiences, and that was in
Kyoto.
And all of a sudden, I seeeverybody wanting to go to
Kyoto.
My best friend just went withher daughter.
Um, but what they did, theytraveled all throughout Japan

(52:52):
where typically somebody mightjust think about going to Tokyo.
Um, but now it was Kyoto, it wasOsaka.
It's it's like you said, it'sit's spreading out.
There are more places toexplore, not just that one
destination.
And, you know, they've got thesefabulous bullet trains, the
maglev, and you can get, youknow, anywhere very quickly.

(53:13):
So um I do think that people arekind of gobbling up travel
because they missed it so much.
And so it's it's just now thatthey've got this, you know, this
bug for traveling, it's like go,go, go.
They want to keep doing it.
I'm constantly talking to peoplethat I'm taking a trip here, I'm
taking a trip there.
Everybody is traveling now,which is wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 (53:32):
Yeah, and and you're absolutely spot on.
And I'll just give you one exactexample of that in the travel
industry.
I had Tao Tao, the co-founder ofGet Your Guide, on our podcast,
and he was highlighting thatJapan, we across the industry,
we all know Japan is number onetop destination, and the numbers
are staggering of the increasesin the last three years.
And when you look at what peopleare doing in Japan, so the

(53:52):
number one activity that getsbooked on Get Your Guide are the
sumo tours.
And the sumo wrestlers areobviously connected to
restaurants where you then goand see a sumo match and you go
and have the soup that they havethat's super high calorie and
tend to uh allow them to gainweight, and it's become
incredibly popular.
But you trace that all backbecause one of the hardest
things um for marketers isbuilding demand and awareness.

(54:13):
It's much easier to interceptdemand where people have put
their hand up to say, I'm nowsearching for Japan, because
they saw the amazing race andthey saw this sumo and they
decided.
So when I think about thatconversation with Tao Tao get
your guide, what was the sourceof that inspiration?
And it comes back to like theamazing race and be uh what an
impact that has on getting thosetravelers to uh that first group

(54:35):
of travelers that then come backand tell everyone else what an
amazing time they had, and thenword spreads, and it's like this
is the time to go to Japan.

SPEAKER_02 (54:41):
Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 (54:43):
We'll be right back.

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SPEAKER_00 (56:52):
And now, back to the show.
So looking forward to season 39,I'm sure I'm there's several
things you probably can't shareat the moment, but um depending
on what you can share aboutdestinations you're going to go
to.
But you know, how intentionalare you now about those
destinations and continuing toevolve the production of the
show to bring your audiencealong and to keep it as

(57:13):
entertaining and uh andinteresting as you do.

SPEAKER_02 (57:16):
Very intentional in putting the show together.
Um, you know, when we when we doget, you know, tourism boards
asking us to please come here,please come here.
Um, we're very careful not tocompromise um showing places
that are a little off the beatenpath, uh, because that's that's
kind of the fun of what our showdoes is we're gonna also take

(57:36):
you to places that not everybodygoes to.
That's not right at the top ofthe page, first page of a tour
book or a um, you know, on theinternet.
So we like to mix it up.
We want to find things that, youknow, are iconic, culturally
significant, but then we alsowant to like step outside of
that and say, Oh, but did youlook around the corner from this

(57:57):
little place and see thisbeautiful little restaurant here
where we're now you're gonnamake faux or pho, you know, um
pho.
I think it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 (58:05):
It's fun.

SPEAKER_02 (58:06):
Yeah.
Um, so it's, you know, tourismboards have wonderful
suggestions.
Um, all within, we keep it allwithin the realm of as a show,
as a format.
What what does the viewer wantto see?
What do we know will strike achord?
So you just working inconjunction with them and giving
them something that they wouldlike to see, but also, like I

(58:28):
said, staying true to race andour format.
Um, and realizing now what animpact we have had on the
tourism and travel industry.
Um, like I said, we didn'tnotice it at first and didn't
realize it at first until peoplestarted going to these places
and um they're doing the thingsthat we did.
So it's it's it's kind ofexciting to see.

unknown (58:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (58:50):
Wasn't intentional.

SPEAKER_00 (58:51):
Yeah.
Well, it's um one of the greatextensions is now the official
Amazing Race travel companionthat you've published that you
kindly signed for me when wewere together.
And uh now having read throughthis book, it's it is a perfect
companion piece if you love theshow because there's and it's
like a choose your ownadventure.
Tell us a little bit about thebook itself, how it came about.
And uh for those people, I'm I'mholding it up here on the

(59:14):
camera, but you can find it uhon Amazon, of course, but uh or
your local bookstore, whicheveryou choose.
Um, but tell everyone a bit ofbackground on the book, please,
Lise.

SPEAKER_02 (59:24):
The background on the book, I've been I've wanted
to do a book for a very longtime and um worked with Simon
and Schuster on this.
And basically what what I f theneed was is I had so many people
saying, can I do the things thatI that I seen on the show?
Can I go there?
Where is it?
How do I get there?
And so the book is really aguide to showcase the places

(59:49):
that you can go to as a as atraveler.
These are places you can, youknow, walk right up and do that
adventure, right?
So, like you said, it's makeyour own adventure.
It's Africa, Asia, Europe, theUnited States.
Uh, I give little excerpts ofwhat my experiences were, some
little bit behind the scenes.
There's a few photos in there.
Um, but if there's things thatyou I have friends or people I

(01:00:11):
know that have taken the bookand are like, okay, we're gonna,
we're going to Rome.
What where did the amazing racego in Rome?
Oh, let's go, let's go checkthis place out.
So people use it as a as like acompanion.
They bring it on the road withthem and they when they get to a
place, they're they're going tothese places that we've been to
on the race.
So that was the inspiration.
I I would love to, you know, doa book of all the pictures.

(01:00:34):
We we take so many photographs.
There's not enough pictures inthis book.
I wanted to show so many morebehind the scenes moments.
Um, that's why we need to do abehind the scenes of the amazing
race.
But this is really a guide youcan take and experience the race
for your ex for yourself.
Um, something that also happensto us on the road because you'd
mentioned earlier the formats.
We have the Canadian AmazingRace.

(01:00:54):
We're doing one in Fit.
We we're going into our nextseason in Finland.
It's very popular there.
We've done a many seasons inAustralia.
There are so many versions ofthe Amazing Race now that we
literally cross paths withanother amazing race format when
we're out there filming.
Um, so seeing those clue boxesand the flags, people get very
excited to see that.

(01:01:15):
And if you go to some of theseplaces in the book, the where
we've been to, some of the localpeople will leave up the arrow,
arrows, or flags that were therewhen we were filming.
So you might see a little pieceof the amazing race still in
those locations in the book.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:29):
Well, the first thing I did when I got the book,
because I started marking it upright away, I was started
checking all the boxes of theplaces I've been, like seeing a
golden dragon water puppet showin Ho Chi Minh.
And then what stands out to me,like is like at first I was I've
I've been to one of quite a fewuh places and I was and I
remember them from the show.
But then I was looking at allthe like visiting the Taj Mahal.
That was another but there's alot of places I haven't I

(01:01:51):
haven't been to Marrakesh, thevisiting a carpet shop in
Marrakesh and seeing the marketsthere.
But for me, it realized it ithighlighted to me all the travel
I still have to do, and thethat's the things I really want
to do.
Like, you know, I've been to theBlue Lagoon in Reykjavik, so
that's like I've checked on thatoff on the book.

SPEAKER_03 (01:02:07):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:07):
So for me, I do like a checklist.
I don't like the concept ofbucket list in the sense that
you know, um, these are theplaces you have to see before
you die.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:17):
These are the places you just need to go.
Yeah, just go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:20):
Just go to enjoy your life the fullest.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:22):
Yeah.
Keep your passport current.
Go.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:25):
And on that note, given you're clearly an avid
traveler yourself and you haveso much energy and passion for
uh for travel, despite the factyou know you are constantly, it
is also a job for you.
Like it's very much um your workand your profession.
You must travel personally.
I know you're based in LA.
Um, but what else, what whatdestinations of the world are
particularly special for youwhen it comes to taking a

(01:02:46):
holiday?
And what's next on your list, atleast, on a personal level of
places you want to get to?
I'm I'm assuming whenever you'rein a place, you're thinking, oh,
it's just gonna make a goodepisode of the show.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:55):
Oh gosh, I I have races, I call it race brain.
Everything I see and look atwhen I'm traveling, oh, that'd
be a great roadblock.
Oh, this would be a greatdetour.
Yes, uh route marker.
Uh yes, I I can't turn that offfor some reason after 25 years.
It's just part of my DNA and mybrain now.
But um, my husband is Dutch.
Uh, so we are gonna go toHolland, one of our favorite

(01:03:17):
places to visit.
Um, my husband's daughter livesin just outside of Amsterdam.
So we're taking our daughter, wehave there are three girls, um,
to Holland for a family trip.
I think we're going to go toLondon to go see some shows in
London.
My daughter is a huge fan oftheater and uh maybe take the
channel.

(01:03:37):
I don't know.
We we have a few things.
We're just starting to map itout.
So a European vacation, uh alittle bit.
Um, but you know, every placethat we've been to on the race
has been inspired either byBertram's travel or my travel.
Um, the wonderful thing becausehe is Dutch and he has uh seen
the world in different ways thanI have experienced the world,

(01:03:59):
the contrast of what we puttogether when we're laying out a
route works really, really well.
Um, because we have it fromdifferent perspectives.
Um so yeah, so when I'm planninga trip, um, it's gonna sound
funny, but I like long flightsbecause I can just turn
everything off and watch threemovies or something like that.
I really want to go.

(01:04:20):
Um, I really want to go to Fijior Tahiti again.
I love, I love a beach and anisland.
Haven't been to Jamaica in awhile.
Um, there are so many places Istill want to go to.
I do not get tired of travel.
I absolutely love it.
I get excited when I get on theplane.
I get excited when I get off theplane and I smell the air.

(01:04:41):
And I'm like, I am in, I'm inAfrica or I'm in Hawaii.
You know, it it could also, youknow, I'm in Alaska.
Um I do get excited abouttravel.
If I'm home for too long, I'mjust like crawling the walls.
I want to get out.
My husband's the same way.
When are we gonna give on atrip?
So constantly planning anadventure.
But when I'm home after therace, I do like to stay a little

(01:05:02):
local.
So go out to Palm Springs ormaybe up to Ohio.
I live in Los Angeles andbecause this is a pretty
beautiful state, also.
We have the desert two hoursaway, we've got Mammoth Mountain
four or five hours away, youknow, all of it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:05:16):
Yeah, I loved living in California and I love
traveling back to California,and you're absolutely right.
It's such a beautiful place tobe based because there's so much
accessible to you, themountains, the ocean, and and
um, but obviously for you, I'msure many of our listeners were
like, wait a second, uh,European tours, um, it's not the
far-flung destinations, likeit's just it's traveling with
your daughter and your and it'sthe personal connection, the

(01:05:37):
people you're traveling with.
It's really nice to hear you saythat because that ultimately for
us the greatest joy has beentraveling as a family and
bringing our kids along.
And it's something I've alwaysencouraged so many other friends
to do because they typically youknow will look for an
opportunity to leave the kids athome and go and do a trip.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:52):
Oh no, yeah, it's a family adventure.
And totally you know, we want todo the experience with the
family because we do havefamily, we have family.
In Italy and we have family inHolland.
And because we travel so muchworking, it's nice to, you know,
we've, you know, there aresacrifices we have had because
of production.
We've missed weddings, we'vemissed holidays, we've missed

(01:06:12):
birthdays.
So coming together as a family,uh, everybody kind of flying to
one destination and then kind ofoffshooting from there.
Yes, 100%.
But I have brought my daughteruh with me on a few trips and
been inspired.
We've been to Vietnam together,we've been to Thailand together,
and we've been to Hong Kongtogether.
And so I'm definitely openingthe world to her, and she's

(01:06:35):
definitely got the travel bug inher genes.
So I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:39):
That's great.
I'm glad to hear that.
And one of the things I was keento ask you along um this topic
is the is there a destination ormoment from the show that really
personally stayed with you?
I know you've mentioned a coupleon a couple examples over the
course of our conversation.
Uh, but I'm very keen to knowbecause again, for me on the as
a viewer, there's a number ofthat stood out to me.
But yeah, is there been adestination or particular moment

(01:07:00):
on the show that really um uhhas has was particularly
meaningful for you?

SPEAKER_02 (01:07:04):
Uh there have been many, uh many, many.
Um I think I, you know, when yousee something online, a picture
or a video, um, you imagine whatit will be like.
But seeing something in person,this is where you you've gotta
travel.
It's so much more impactful andwill take your breath away.

(01:07:28):
Um, seeing the Great Wall ofChina in Beijing was
eye-opening.
You just can't imagine that thiswas built so long ago, and it is
so massive that you can see itfrom the moon.
Um, the pyramids in Egypt inCairo, um, the Taj Mahal, the
Grand Canyon in our very ownbeautiful country.

(01:07:49):
These are moments that just takeyour breath away.
And I do have many because I'vebeen to many places.
Um, I think for me, the firsttrip I took scouting for the
amazing race, uh, we went toIndia and seeing the Taj Mahal,
we took a very, very long trainride to Agra and the sun was
rising.
It was six in the morning.
And just seeing that, that, thatbeautiful building, that

(01:08:11):
mausoleum was just breathtaking.
Um, and and it's also the sightsand sounds that you get in
person that sadly don't alwayscome across a television or a
device that you're watching theshow on.
So um, yeah, just get out thereand and your senses are
exploding, right?
Um, it's wonderful.
Um, and for me, like the veryfirst trip I took with my

(01:08:35):
college roommate, um, we flew toMadrid.
It was my first, I was I I don'tknow, I was 21 when I graduated.
I think it was, I forgot.
I think I was 21 when Igraduated.
It was 1990.
You can now figure out how old Iam.
But uh so um we've my graduationpresent was a ticket from JFK um
from New York, from JFK toMadrid, and then a URL pass

(01:08:57):
through Europe.
Um, landing in Madrid, gettingon a train to Valencia, getting
on an overnight ferry to Ibizato go visit my friend Lori's
aunt and uncle who lived there,and being on a sailboat within
24, you know, 24 hours or threedays.
It's just, it's, it's, it's themost amazing experience that
you're ever gonna have.

(01:09:17):
And just meeting people.
Um, really, that was the thatwas the inspiration for the
show.
I have people that I met andtook notes and numbers that I've
still been in contact with allthese years later, um, that are
from Italy, that are fromSwitzerland, that are from
Paris, um, seeing places likethe Eiffel Tower for the first
time.
All these iconic places we allgrow up seeing in pictures, when

(01:09:41):
you see them in person, there'snothing like it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:43):
Well, I'm sure many of our listeners who are so keen
to uh be a part of this episodewill resonate and they'll um
probably and I encourage you toshare on social as you're uh
listen to this episode some ofthe highlights from your
experience watching The AmazingRace.
Seeing for me, seeing an Africansafari and being like in Africa,
that was something that alwaysstood out to me.
A number of friends had said tome, wait till you experience

(01:10:03):
Africa.
Once you're in the bush and youget the it's like written on our
DNA, all of a sudden there issomething that just comes back
to you that all of a suddenthere's a familiarity with the
place, the sense, there's thesight, the scent, um, the
sounds.
It's also like it's it's uhalmost gives me goosebumps
talking about it because there'ssomething special that happens
there.
And it's um and there's a famousline from the uh legendary

(01:10:24):
travel writer Paul Thoreau isthat if you only visit two
continents in your lifetime,visit Africa twice.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:29):
And so I think the I agree with you.
I I have the same feeling.
When you when you see, you know,when you see a giraffe or you uh
I I remember I was I was on a ona scout with Bertram and we were
at a safari tented camp, andyou're hearing all these sounds
while you're trying to go tosleep at night.
And I never really knew what alion sounded like.

(01:10:51):
It wasn't a sound that I hadimagined a lion sounding like.
And then you wake up in themorning and the giraffes are
feeding and how they spreadtheir legs really wide and dip
their neck down.
Yeah, these are things that canbring out big emotions.
And this is the, you know, it'slike you're going back to the
very beginning of time whenyou're seeing this because it's

(01:11:11):
so untouched in so many places.
And yes, those are the places weneed to protect and preserve and
take care of rhinos, elephants,all of these beautiful creatures
that need to stay around for allof the lifetimes and generations
ahead of us.
Yeah, that those are momentsthat are truly I did a hot air
balloon ride in Africa.

(01:11:32):
And just, you know, seeing thewildlife below, it was
incredible.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:37):
Well, just on that, I'd love to finish our
conversation talking about thefuture of both the Amazing Grace
and travel content as well,since you're such an important
uh part of the overall travelcommunity.
And I think that's whathopefully a lot of people are
going to take away from thisepisode.
And I'm sure many of ourlisteners will also be keen to
reach out to your team.
Obviously, I won't give anyoneuh your direct contact

(01:11:59):
information, but I will makesure that it because I'm sure
that a lot of tour operators andthey were like, oh, we have to
get Elise to come to our, youknow, so I'm sure there'll be so
many people delighted.
So I will channel those throughyour team.
So still feel free to reach outto me and I will put you in
touch with the Lisa's team.
So you have many other amazingtravel opportunities that will
emerge that people would bedelighted to uh to host you and
your family.

(01:12:20):
Um but in terms of where theindustry is headed, given that
you have um had already such amassive impact on the industry,
and it continues, so you're infull flight with the show.
I mean, this is um uh somethingthat I imagine you could just
continue uh doing forever, likein the show.
So I but in terms of travelcontent, so I'll I'll frame it
this way first, and then we'llgo back to talking about the

(01:12:41):
show, um, is that travelstorytelling is actually very
difficult.
And and part of when I startedour conversation, I was keen to
ask you, you know, did you knowthis was a success on your hands
right away?
I mean, I knew it from a viewer,but knowing how much time and
effort you put into it, becauseit is very rare that the stars
align and that something aroundtravel becomes a success.
And I'll just share with ourlisteners, I think you'll find

(01:13:02):
this interesting.
I worked at the uh Lonely Planetfor a number of years for Tony
and Maureen Wheeler, who areobviously two legends in the
travel industry and has had aprofound effect both on me and
so many other travelers aroundthe world.
And it was the right place,right time.
They did the hippie trail, theytraveled from the UK to
Australia and they startedwriting guidebooks at a time
when more people were embracingtravel.

(01:13:22):
And one of the things thatMaureen had said to me, because
they wanted to get it more intotravel literature, and I'm sure
you're familiar with the authorBill Bryson.
I love Bill Bryson and his wit,his humor.
Yeah.
Really like one of the fewauthors that can really make me
like laugh out loud.
Yeah.
And they literally tried tocreate a whole series of travel
literature based on the factthey were trying to find the
next Bill Bryson.
And they've had some SimonWinchester, they've had some

(01:13:44):
terrific travel writers, butthere's no other Bill Bryson.
And I don't and there's no otheramazing race.
Like there's like there'scertain things that just it just
works.
And it's and so I wanted tohighlight that to our listeners
because it is so rare, and whichis obviously my enthusiasm for
the show and and finally havinga chance to meet you.
But when you think about travelstorytelling, where do you think
we are today?
Where do you think it's headed?

(01:14:05):
And one of the things I'm keento ask you is it relates to you
know TikTok and short formcontent and the way that so many
people are now consumingcontent, including um our kids.
And so uh it's one of the thingsI'm not seeing kids reading
travel books anymore,unfortunately.
I still love travel literatureand I still read.
Um, and uh but given that youhave to try and make sure that

(01:14:26):
you're staying relevant for youraudience, what do you think the
future of travel content lookslike over the next few years?
And do you think that the shortform content might reshape the
travel space?

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:36):
I think there's a place for both the long form in
our show and then the shortform, like you said, on TikTok,
Instagram.
Um, I think they both help eachother, to be honest.
I I hope that someone might beinspired by seeing our show and
then look it up on TikTok orInstagram and say, oh, uh
Namibia.
Let's see.

(01:14:57):
There's there's some, you know,you can you can go down a sand
dune on a board and then you cansee all the amazing footage that
somebody has shot andexperienced on social media.
So I think they work hand inhand.
Um I think there's room forboth.
I like that on our series, youcan get an immersive overview of

(01:15:17):
an entire city or country.
Um, it's a deeper dive.
I think it's a little morefulfilling.
Uh it is more fulfilling.
Um, and you get to see realpeople experiencing these places
without social media becausethey're not using their phones.
So it is a real true internaland emotional, external
experience, physical, it's allof that without a device.

(01:15:40):
So there's there's something tobe said for that.
Um, when people come on our showand the devices are taken away,
aside from when they're askingsomebody for directions and
they're like, Can I use yourphone?
Um they're really getting toexperience it without kind of
the distraction of like, let meget a selfie, let me shoot this,
let me do this.
But then on the flip side ofthat, I love that there are

(01:16:01):
social media uh content creatorsout there making these highlight
reels, these moments, theirexperiences, they're edited
beautifully, they're energetic,um, and it can really highlight
a place to go.
So there's room for both.
Um so both are great.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:18):
Yeah, I'm glad I'm really glad to hear you say that
because obviously our podcast islong-form content.
And my background,interestingly, is uh digital
transformation, performancemarketing.
And the reason I say that isbecause what I've learned by
creating this podcast is thatpeople listen longer, they
retain more information, andthey take action from podcasts
because you have much more of anintimate connection with the

(01:16:40):
listener when they're having aconversation like this, because
they really feel like they'regetting to know you in this
conversation.
So they have a deeper connectionto the guest.
And that's always been mycommitment with the show because
I see it very much as a starvehicle for the guests that come
on the show to in this case,you're already a massive star,
so I'm not you're it's certainlyyeah, in the in the
entertainment industry, I don'tknow, and um, I'm sure it will

(01:17:01):
raise your profile within thetravel industry.
But one of the things that I'vebeen guess very mindful of is
trying to figure out how tocreate great content.
And so I've taken hugeinspiration.
Yeah, we we've even act you knowemulated your approach of having
two seasons a year to ourpodcast.
And so that's great.
Um, it's just the way that youknow we do six months and six
months, and we come up to fivedifferent themes for each of the
season, and it works.

(01:17:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, but is there an area thatyou see that is missing in
travel content?
So I I bring up obviouslyguidebooks that are
unfortunately now being phasedout for all the necessary
reasons with technology.
We see this huge shift towardssocial channels and the short
form videos.
Uh clearly podcasts, and when westarted this, I thought there
was enough podcasts out therealready.
I started this.
There's an interesting storythat most of our listeners know.

(01:17:43):
I created 10 episodes after mydad passed away with the idea of
kind of highlightingpost-pandemic travel and giving
back to the industry I love.
I didn't expect that we'd becomethe number one B2B podcast
globally and going into seasonseven.
And I love doing it.
And you know, we have listenersin 125 countries.
And it's like, so for me, I feellike, okay, I've been able to
contribute to the industry Ilove so much, and I can continue
doing it.

(01:18:04):
Um, but are there so podcastsare now very real and meaningful
in the travel industry, and itwas they were slightly later
than other you know,entertainment podcasts.
Because when we were living inLA, my wife was listening to,
you know, she loved the armchairexpert, she loves Smartless.
She's the one that really put meonto podcasts during the
pandemic, and that's when Idecided to create a travel
podcast for the B2B industry tohelp people get back into the

(01:18:25):
industry and make connectionsand so on.
It's great.
Do you it's great do you seeyeah?
Well, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I was just keen to know if youif you if you that means a lot,
Lisa.
That's that's huge coming foryou.
I please I will say that.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:35):
I've been listening to your podcast, so I I I I love
it.
I mean, I'm also a fan of yours,so I just wanted to say that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:42):
I'm gonna well up in a moment, so I'm gonna try to
keep my composure.
Yeah.
Uh no, that means the world tome.
That's um but what I was gonnaask you is when you think about
travel as a traveler and assomeone that uh produces the
show, is there any areas thatare missing in terms of content
that you think that peoplelistening to this when it comes
to inspiring people to travel,is there any areas of content

(01:19:04):
that you think could be anopportunity for our listeners?
And uh for me, obviously, I Iknow how powerful video is, but
yeah, you obviously produce anamazing um television show and
we do a podcast.
Is there any other travelcontent that you are paying
attention to um or you thinkthere's opportunity to to branch
out into?

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:23):
Yeah.
Um you know, the first thingthat comes to mind is the things
that are not so glossy and andedited and finished, you know,
almost like, you know, thebehind the scenes or, you know,
everybody that posts online onsocial media shows the edited,
beautiful moments and doing thelike, I'm I'm skydiving and I'm
I'm you know, I'm I'm walking onthe Great Wall of China.

(01:19:44):
But what was it like in yourhotel room leading up to that
morning?
What did you have for bread?
Like, I want to know all thedetails of your adventure, you
know, the good, the bad, and theugly, right?
Like, so, you know, um, youknow, the flight, it was long.
I didn't sleep.
Uh, you know, I had thisbreakfast in a hotel and I I'm
not used to eating fish forbreakfast because I'm now in

(01:20:07):
Japan and this is what they'reserving at the hotel.
So just things like that thatmight be a little more outtakey
behind the scenes.
Um, I think there's room foreven the amazing race on
Paramount Plus, which is theirstreamer where we could show
behind the scenes moments.
Or, you know, um, for us withour show, I would love to do
something where the contestantsare talking about their

(01:20:29):
experience.
You know, they they go on theamazing race, you see this much
of them, and they either geteliminated or they win.
But then we don't follow up thatstory, you know.
What was it like for you?
You know, now that like I thinkwe can expand more.
I do like a little more longformat because we have so much,
we do have a lot of shortcontent, you know, quick
content, punchy stuff.

(01:20:51):
I want to know how they feltonce they get home from the
amazing race, or somebody getshome from a trip, how that
experience affected them.
Where do they want to go next?
What inspired them to dosomething to change in their
life?
I want to know a little bit moreabout the personal story about
when somebody comes home.
Like, what's next for you basedon what just happened or where

(01:21:11):
you were?
You know, I'm sure you plannedyour next trip after you went to
Vietnam, like, okay, we wenthere.
Now, because of this, let's gohere.
You know, like Absolutely.
Yeah.
I think that's I think that'swhat I could say.
There's more content on theside, you know, behind the
scenes or after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:28):
Yeah, you mentioned something there too, that is a
very important trend, both inthe media and also uh consumer,
which is culinary, you know,with the number of food shows
and the number of peopletraveling for food.
I just came back from aconference in Valencia and the
number of tour operators therethat just focus on doing food
tours.
And so that's a good example ofyou know creating content based
on consumer interest and um butand then the ways that people

(01:21:52):
consume that.
Like I think there's there'sstill significant opportunity
there.
But it's gonna be amazing to seehow it continues, especially
with your show and your impacton the world in the next three
to five years.
So let's let's let's finish onthat topic because I'm I'm very
keen to know where to from herewith the amazing race in terms
of how many seasons you want toachieve, or specifically any

(01:22:13):
additional aspirations you havefor the show and its impact.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:16):
Um, well, I'm sitting in my office, so I'm you
know, I'm I know there's gonnabe more seasons.
Um I can't announce anythingyet, but we are editing season
39, which will air in the fall.
Um, thinking about 40.
It's a milestone season, so it'sit's gotta be something big and
exciting.
So brainstorming for that.

(01:22:37):
Um, I will do this show as longas the network wants me to do
this show.
I don't ever want to stop.
I have I feel like I've got thebest job in the world.
Um I I love what we do.
I love that we open the world toviewers and get people traveling
and outside their comfort zone.

(01:22:57):
I just um I love the effect ithas also on.
Um, I get a lot of emails andhandwritten letters from kids in
school, from film departments,in college, all the way down to
elementary school that wereteachers are saying they put our
show into their teaching planabout geography and language and
culture and food and things likethat.

(01:23:17):
Um so I I like how the amazingrace has touched all different
areas in a positive way.
Um, I wanna do it, I wanna do itas long as I can do it for and
continue on.
I think it's important that weit's it's it's really a time
capsule of our world, right?
So if you go back to season onethrough five and watch those,

(01:23:38):
and then you watch the seasonsthat are currently airing,
you're gonna see a time capsule.
You're gonna see people evolvingwith transportation uh and also
like even just with technology,you know, starting with no
phones and people reading mapson the show, like gotta read a
map, to now the contestantsasking somebody for their phone

(01:23:59):
to do a Google map search, youknow, it's evolved over time.
So it really is a historicalshow that that you know shows
the world as a whole over aperiod of 25 years and hopefully
another 25.
So yeah, wanted to keep going.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:12):
I will say amen to that one.
And uh obviously I would loveanother 25 years of the amazing
race.
And one of the stats that we'veshared on our show is that in
2025, last year, there was aboutuh 400 million global travelers,
and the expectation by 2050 isthat we'll double.
You know, there'll be 800million people traveling.
And so we all need to be verymindful about how we approach

(01:24:33):
the industry and the point thatyou made about overtourism and
places like Barcelona, these arevery real present challenges.
And I actually think one of theone of many things that the
amazing race can do is bringawareness to secondary
destinations and destinationsthat are a little bit further
afield because there's thisconcept of destination dupes.
I'm sure you've also heard thisterm where people are saying,

(01:24:53):
you know, it's just like Venice,but or it's just like Barcelona,
and uh that's what people arediscovering now.
That and I am actually quitequite excited for that.
This next I think there's gonnabe destinations we're gonna be
talking about, like in thePhilippines and Indonesia and
islands that are still notdeveloped and that are you know
less touristy, as people wouldsay, because they're also yeah.

(01:25:13):
Oh, yes, please, please do.

SPEAKER_02 (01:25:15):
You know, um go to Madeira, Portugal.
Uh you fly into Lisbon, and thenit's about an hour or a little
more to fly to Madeira.
Um I don't know if I love thisterm, but it is the Hawaii of
Europe.
It's literally just off thecoast of Africa, off of probably
like Morocco.
Um, but it's stunning.
It has the obviously ruggedocean coastline, palm trees.

(01:25:39):
It's got forest.
It's it's a microclimate allover the island.
It is stunning.
And it's a place that would be asecondary location that I think
people need to see.
You gotta go.
Gotta go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:25:51):
That's a great example.
I had a friend that justproposed to his uh fiance there,
and I had not been, and I thepictures I saw, and now I
understood why he chose it.
And that's a great example of adestination.

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:02):
Watch out, Madeira.
Watch out, Madeira.
Here we go.
Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:06):
You heard it.
You heard it here first.
All right.
What one other question sinceyou get to design so many legs
of the race, so not givinganything away for season 39, but
uh let's say for season 40 um orgoing forward, if there was one
ultimate amazing race leg thatyou could develop anywhere,
where might that be?
Where is some place that you'restill keen to go that you

(01:26:27):
haven't gone to yet, or aparticular place you'd love to
go back to because it would justit makes the perfect leg of a
race?

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:33):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 (01:26:34):
Some place that we talk about a lot is Nepal.
Um when I say we talk about it alot, we talk about it and we
there's so many wonderful thingsthat we can do there.
Um flying in and out is not aseasy as we would like.
The weather can change in aminute.
So that one's been a littlechallenging.
Antarctica is a tough one thatI've always wanted to go to, but

(01:26:55):
you can only go in a certainwindow.
It's around winter January time.
Um there's there's a lot ofplaces we we would like to go
back to.
I like I said, I always loveIndia.
I love Sri Lanka.
Um I'm gonna give away, I'm notgonna tell you which place we're
going to, but we are gonna be inCanada for season 39.

SPEAKER_03 (01:27:15):
Fantastic.
That's so exciting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:16):
It's a place we've never been to, so it's gonna be
a first.
Um, but it's a it's beautiful.
I love Canada.

SPEAKER_00 (01:27:23):
Um we thank you all I thank you at all Canadians.
I'm all bad of all Canadians, atleast.
Thank you for doing that.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:27:31):
Yes.
Um yes, we we have a really funshow there.
And uh I know I wish I could saymore.
We also have a fantastic castcoming up this season.
Um very inspirational.
Um it it's a great cast.
We I just saw the finale.
We just we're editing the finaleepisode right now, so I'm

(01:27:51):
excited for for that season.
Um, you know, there are placesin Africa.
I still I we it's been a minutesince we've been to places where
we've done you know, safari typethings.
Um, there are places that we canand can't go to right now that
I'm hoping we can go to soon,but I love Botswana.
I Victoria Falls is beautiful.

(01:28:11):
Um, I think we could do a reallyexciting show.
We we gotta get back to the tothe wildlife African side of
things.
So yeah, I'd like to expandthere.
Botswana.
Amazing.
You know, yeah.
I mean, Zanzibar, I loveZanzibar.
There's so many places that cometo mind.
I we're putting a list togetherof countries right now for 40 in
the hopes that we have 40.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:30):
That was actually on the list of ones I didn't check
was the the Tanzania, the ferry.
Um that I need that I need totake.
Because like the You have to dothat.
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (01:28:39):
Go to go to Tanzania, take the ferry, go to
Zanzibar.
Freddie Mercury, we was bornthere from Queen, you know?
Um it's really, it's really aspecial place.
It's very unique.
100% go there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:28:53):
Well, we're definitely going to have to have
you back for season eight.
This is season seven, of course,of our podcast.
And in season eight, so one ofthe things that happened, uh, at
least in the last season, thatwas really special, is that I
had the opportunity to meet JoePine.
Joe Pine was one of theinspirations for me to get into
the travel industry.
He wrote the book, TheExperience Economy, way back in
1999.
And he's now been on the podcastthree times in the last seven

(01:29:14):
months because the conversation,similar to the conversation
we've had today, has been soextraordinary, inspiring,
insightful.
And we this year we've very muchcoined the, you know, this being
the year of transformativetravel, that people are seeking
truly transformative travelexperiences.
And I, you know, alluded to thatin our conversation that I feel
that that is actually theexperience you have watching The
Amazing Race and what it setsyou up to go and do in the

(01:29:35):
world.
It changes your approach, itchanges your perception.
And I think it also changes yourbehavior and activity in a
destination.
So I think there's so much theAmazing Race has to offer.
And yourself specifically beingthe visionary and the creator of
this extraordinary concept andknowing that you are coming to
Canada or the show has beenfilmed in Canada, I would love

(01:29:56):
to invite you back to be onseason eight of our podcast when
you can speak about that and theshow has aired or is airing, and
we can revisit and uh some ofthose highlights and talk about
what's next for season 40 andand your career and and um and
and more.
So, Elise, if you would lovethat.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:30:14):
Thank you.
I would absolutely love that.
There's so much more to talkabout.
When you started talking aboutfood experiences, I have a whole
list of things to talk about andthe experiential piece of it.
Yes, 100% agree.
That's what travel's all about.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:30:28):
Well, to all our listeners, you can look forward
to that.
This will be part one of ourconversation um with Elise.
And uh, I just want to say, youknow, obviously, a huge thank
you to you uh for being here tomake the time for this
conversation.
A big thanks from all of us inthe travel industry for
everything you've done to raisethe profile of all these amazing
places and doing so in the rightway, which is ultimately I think

(01:30:49):
is such a great testament.
And yeah, I look forward toseason eight.
I definitely encourage everyoneto check out your book, The
Official Amazing Race TravelCompanion.
And uh, Elise, but I'll leaveyou with the last word though,
as far as anything you'd like toleave all of your fans, all the
listeners to our podcast withabout travel or your plans for
the rest of 2026.
What else would you like toleave us with today?

SPEAKER_02 (01:31:10):
Well, uh, first I want to thank you for having me.
This has really been so fun.
You've given me so much energy,and my my mind is racing to come
up with new ideas for uh, youknow, the next season.
Um, I just want to encourageeverybody to get those passports
if you don't have one and getout there and travel because um

(01:31:31):
the best way to understand humannature and people and everyone
in the world and fulfill yoursoul and be social is get out
there and travel.
So um I just highly recommendit.
It it'll add so much more toyour life.
It expands your horizons and sotravel.
Keep watching the amazing race.
I appreciate all the fans thathave stayed with us for 25 plus

(01:31:54):
years.
And 30 season 39 is gonna be uhit's one of our best, I have to
say.
I'm excited about it.
So thank you, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:00):
You're welcome.
I'm so looking forward to it.
And yes, get those passportsbecause that's always the first
thing that we need to make surepeople do to get out traveling.
And there was a great campaignwhen I worked at Lonely Planet
that was focused on the U.S.
market, but it replies to anycountry as far as I'm concerned.
And it was do something greatfor your country, leave.
And so leave leave just trapmeaning travel, just go and see

(01:32:21):
the world, open up your mind,get perspective.
And so um yeah, but thank youagain, and I look forward to
speaking to you again in a fewmonths.
Thank you so much, Elise.

SPEAKER_02 (01:32:29):
Thank you, Dan.

SPEAKER_00 (01:32:30):
And that's a wrap on our Travel Trends Podcast season
seven.
I just want to say a specialthank you again to Elise
Doganieri for joining us forthis finale episode and the
incredible conversation we hadabout the amazing race, the
journey you've been on, and theimpact you've had on the travel
industry.
Good luck with season 39.
Definitely encourage all of ourlisteners to check out the new

(01:32:53):
season.
And maybe, just maybe, one day Imight even have the chance to be
on the amazing race.
I'll keep my fingers crossed.
But in the meantime, I will keepwatching and supporting the
show.
And I continue to advocate forhow beneficial it has been for
the entire travel industry.
So thanks again to you and theteam for making the show and
aspiring so many people to goout and see the world.

(01:33:16):
And as we close off the season,I just want to say a special
thank you again to all of ourguests that joined us and made
this season so special.
Thanks to all of our partnersfor believing in us and
supporting us, our titlesponsors, our theme sponsors,
and thanks most importantly toall of our listeners for being
such a big part of the TravelTrends journey.
Our listenership in 2026 is overfive times what we had in 2025.

(01:33:40):
And partly that's related to ushaving a YouTube channel and
starting to share video content,but also across all of our
streaming platforms and oursocial activity, we've seen a
huge increase.
So don't forget, you can find uson YouTube, LinkedIn, Instagram.
We have our blog, of course.
We're gonna be at all the mainindustry conferences throughout
the rest of the year.
So make sure that you reach outand let us know if you're going

(01:34:02):
to be at any of the events, andwe'll look to include you in a
spotlight episode.
And we have our summit coming upat the end of October, the 28th
and 29th.
Registration is still free, andI encourage you to register now.
We're putting together anamazing agenda that we'll be
announcing in August.
And then we'll be kicking offseason eight of our show in

(01:34:23):
September 9th, 2026.
And we have a survey that Istrongly encourage all of our
listeners to just take fiveminutes to complete, partly
because you can win an Airbnbgift card for$500 and five
different travel trends giftpacks, but most importantly,
because we want your feedback tomake the next season as
impactful as possible.
We want to know the guests, thetopics you want us to cover,

(01:34:45):
because at the end of the day,you are the reason that we
produce this show and we reallywant to hear back from you.
So you can find that atTraveltrendspodcast.com.
I hope for the people in theNorthern Hemisphere you enjoy
the rest of the summer.
We will continue to havespotlight episodes rolling out
through August.
So you'll still have eventspotlights, company spotlights,
so you'll still be hearing fromus.
But make sure you're subscribedon the streaming platform of

(01:35:08):
your choice to be notified whenseason eight goes live at the
beginning of September.
And until next season, safetravels.

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