How the Best Experience Operators Are Winning More Bookings with TripWorks

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Travel
Trends Podcast, an episode twoof our In Destination series,
sponsored by our good friendsover at Prono Ricard.
And you heard last week wefinally had Fever on the
podcast, which I was thrilledabout with having Roccio join
us.
Not only because I'm a huge fanof Fever, and obviously the
backstory is incrediblyimpressive, but just when you

(00:27):
look at the partnerships acrossthe industry and how the travel
experiences are really changingby virtue of companies like
Fever, I thought it was aperfect timing to have them part
of the conversation after threeseries that we've done on
InDestination Experiences, whichhas clearly been one of our most
popular, if not our most popularseries.
We also rivaled it a little bitthis season with the Agentic AI

(00:48):
series, and we're just at theprocess of shaping up season
eight that I'm going to share asurvey with all of our listeners
so we can start making plans forseason eight.
But the reason that we wanted tohave the conversation now on
in-destination experiences andbring in our guests today is
because it is July.
So we have just uh had ourCanada Day and our 4th of July

(01:09):
for our friends in the US, likeAaron.
And so this is the time of theyear where everyone's traveling,
and we wanted to have aconversation around what
consumer trends are looking likefor European summer 2026 travel,
North American travel, and wherein-destination experiences are
headed in 2026 and beyond.
So just before we do kick off, Ijust wanted to acknowledge our
friends over at Purno Ricard forkindly sponsoring this series.

(01:32):
They, of course, operate theirPurno Ricard brand homes where
brands come to life throughtheir immersive world-class
experiences from iconicdistilleries to innovative
visitor centers, PR, PernoRicard's brand homes, explore
how destinations are shaping thefuture of experiential
hospitality and engagingtravelers once they arrive.
You can learn more about PurnoRicard brand homes and their
global portfolio of experiencesby visiting Perno-Recard.com.

(01:56):
So thanks again to Laura and theteam.
And now let's turn our attentionto TripWorks and the founder and
CEO, Aaron Fessler.
Welcome, Aaron.
Thanks so much for joining us onTravel Trends.
Thank you, Dan.
Good to be here today.
And I'm very keen to have you onthis series and part of this
conversation because you alsofocus on a very important part
of this sector, which is traveltechnology.

(02:18):
And I know it's a big passion ofyours, being uh someone that's
steeped in technology fromhaving sold a large technology
company many years ago.
So I want to actually start withyour background, if you wouldn't
mind, Aaron, before we youlaunched Tripworks, to tell us a
little bit about your backgroundin technology and of course
share with our listeners whereyou're base as well.
That's great.

SPEAKER_00 (02:38):
Thank you.
Yes, a brief uh bit on mybackground.
I've spent most of my uh careerat the intersection of
technology, enterprise, and uhtour travel.
Um so I've uh spent most of mycareer building enterprise
technology systems for moviestudios, record labels, uh,
Fortune uh 500, Fortune 1000companies.
But ultimately later in mycareer, I decided to pursue my
passion of uh of uh automotive,uh love cars, and ended up

(03:01):
building a pretty significanttourist attraction in Las Vegas
called Speed Vegas.
And so it was interesting.
I was able to take a lot of myuh background and lessons we
learned about building andsolving problems for business
and applying that to thisparticular burger.

SPEAKER_02 (03:13):
Fantastic.
And so I know you had a um afairly significant exit fairly
early in your career.
And um and then obviously youhad not only the passion for
cars, but also tourism becauseuh Las Vegas being such a a hub
in North America and globallyfor really innovative travel
experiences.
Tell us a little bit more aboutSpeed Vegas, because I was
really intrigued by that.

(03:34):
I know you had like ahundred-acre motorsports and and
as I mentioned, experiential.
You're onto that early becausethat was you know, you started
that back in 2011, so longbefore the pandemic.
Um, but tell us a little bitmore about the exotic car
experiences and what you builtthere.

SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
Yeah, big part of my life.
I'm not even sure how tosummarize that quickly.
I'll say that one of the thingsthat attracted me to a tour and
travel is making happy peoplehappier.
Uh and by that I mean you canspend your career typing on a
laptop, solving interestingtechnology problems, but nothing
really takes the place of the ofthe thrill that you get, making
person after person after personuh happy.

(04:09):
Today is the day they lookforward to.
They've they've they've hoped todo the thing that you're
offering, whether it's uh carsin my case, or boats or
wakeboarding or helicoptertours, and that's something I
really enjoy about thisparticular space.
Um so I got involved in after Isold a technology company,
decided to engage my passion,and uh ultimately ended up as
you as you uh uh have uhhighlighted here, acquiring

(04:30):
about a hundred acres ofproperty on the strip in Las
Vegas, and we decided to buildsomething world-class.
And I love how you kind ofhighlighted this idea of making
it experiential.
That really was important for mein the early days.
Uh, there was uh similarattraction in the marketplace,
and frankly, they had portapotties and cones and a pretty
basic experience.
It was extremely successful.
And to me, I thought, wow, ifyou could really uh bring a

(04:52):
level of fit and finish andpolish to the customer
experience, I think you do quitewell.
And it is, it's one of the topuh activities uh in Las Vegas.
It's uh grown extraordinarilywell.
About a quarter of a millionpeople show up uh each year to
that attraction.
And for the listeners, uh whileI'm I'm no longer there, I've
since exited that business, I'dencourage you to go.
If you've ever seen uh, youknow, car magazine, uh motor

(05:13):
trend, or car and driver, andyou thought, wow, that's that's
that's an amazing red Ferrari.
I would like to not just see it,but try it.
Speed Vegas was designed justfor you.
It's not a school, it's not youdon't necessarily learn
something, it's just a place foryou to uh live out that
childhood dream of driving a carfast.
Um Ferraris, Lamborghinis, allthat's a really, really great
experience.

SPEAKER_02 (05:32):
Well, uh note taken because I'm in Vegas a few times
a year, I'm likely gonna bethere again next month for
Virtuoso's conference, and Iwill definitely take you up on
um that suggestion because I uhI'm not a car efficient auto
like you, but I for me it'sabout having had the experience.
So the fact that you can drivethese exotic supercars, and I'm
sure my son will want to joinme.
But the other thing I was gonnasay too, Aaron, about your

(05:54):
background.
I know a lot of entrepreneursthat have had early success, and
there's that expression thatlightning doesn't often strike
twice.
Um in your case, obviously itstruck a few times, not only
with um um speed works, but alsowith tripworks.
And so I would love to get thebackstory on that because I know
we've met a couple of times, butas we were saying, just as we
kicked off, um, you know, it'sone thing to briefly meet at a

(06:17):
conference, but obviously thisis the opportunity uh for us to
actually get to know each otherand also our listeners to get to
know Tripworks in yourbackstory.
And the thing I have to ask youabout first off, because I
didn't have a chance to makethis connection when we met in
person at the arrivalconference, was the timing of
TripWorks being April 2020.
And as I was preparing for ourconversation, I was like,
there's something that actuallyhappened about a month before

(06:38):
that that was fairly significantglobally.
So you uh you probably had achance to grow some of this in
hibernation over the first 12 to18 months.
Um but tell us a little bitabout the backstory about why
you created a tripworks, andthen uh obviously please comment
on the timing.

SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Right.
I wasn't sure where you weregoing with that because from
your perspective, it may looklike lightning strikes uh more
than once.
But um frankly, uh I would loveto meet an a successful
entrepreneur that's found thepath straight and easy and and
carefree.
If there is a way, I have notfound the way.
And it wasn't just TripWorks,and I'll I'll talk about the
timing here, but even SpeedVegas uh was a great example of

(07:15):
that.
Uh and in a prior business, uhwe we decided to get involved in
a uh you know uh an exotic caruh club in uh outside of New
York, and we launched that in2018.
I don't know if you've read thenewspapers, but 2018 was not a
great time to be launching a uhhigh-end luxury, expensive
experience in New York.
And so, yeah, um I like to thinkthat building and operating a

(07:38):
business is like going to thegym.
If you're doing it right, whichI don't often go, but if you're
doing it right, it always hurts.
And for me, that's been mybyline for most of the things.
While it might look easy, it'salways hard.
It's always blood, sweat, andtears.
And you're right, Tripworks wasno different.
We um after Speed Vegas uhreally saw the idea and the
vision behind what it is todayand began to put pen to paper
shortly before the pandemic.

(08:00):
And it's no exaggeration to saythat we uh brought it to market
in February or March of 2020.
The timing could not have beenmore spectacular.
But uh to our team's credit, Ithink at the time, what we
ultimately concluded, and I Imaybe you can tap in today to
the emotion that you may havefelt during that period, it was
certainly dark, and people feltlike the world had changed and
things are different now, andwho knows what the future might

(08:21):
look like and as uh civilizationas we know it over.
I think after a brief moment,what we realized was I don't
think the human condition hadchanged as a result of COVID.
I think fundamentally we'rehumans and we want to taste and
touch and see and do.
We want to get our feet wet, wewant to see the mountain.
And so, unless you believe thathumanity was over, which I
didn't in 2020, you reallyforced yourself then to think of

(08:43):
COVID as a time-bound problem.
Now, whether that would be aproblem for a week or a month or
a year, I certainly couldn'ttake.
But pretty quickly we realized,no, there will be a future where
we're on the other side of that.
And so then what that led to wasa really strong message to our
customers and prospects.
We said, all right, you're areally busy uh tour operator or
attraction, right?
And you're doing nothing now.

(09:04):
You're sitting at home becauseof COVID.
And so you've got a choice.
You can either spend this timeright now fixing all the things
about your business that you'venever had the time to think
about infrastructure, marketingstack, technology, booking
systems, all those sorts ofthings in anticipation of the
day when the sun will come out,or you can sit at home and do
Netflix.
It's up to you.
And frankly, that message reallyresonated well.
So surprisingly, we we reallyleft COVID with a very, very

(09:27):
strong base, new customers thathad spent the time during the
shutdown implementing reallygreat uh uh improvements in
their business.
That said, I'm glad it's over.
It was tough for everybody inour industry, and uh it's it's
nice to be past it.

SPEAKER_02 (09:39):
I couldn't agree more.
And obviously, our listenersknow that the genesis uh of our
podcast was very much connectedto that challenging time.
And you know, when we startedthis three years ago, the whole
idea was to understand howtraveler behavior had changed
post-COVID, because just likeyou, I was standing in my
office.
I was in the U.S.
at the time in California,standing looking out my window
after having read an articleabout the fact it was going to

(10:00):
take travel 10 years to comeback to 2019 levels.
And we all know that really itactually only took two or three
years, and we've seen numberseven higher than 2019.
And so for all of us that wereremained optimistic, like
yourself, that business wouldcome back, it would likely be
different.
But the fact is, people wouldlove uh nothing more than to be
able to travel freely againpost-pandemic, and we had that

(10:23):
revenge travel, which I know theterm I never particularly like
because I think what we've seenis that travel has continued to
be resilient.
And so on the topic of startingtrip works, not only in the
timing, but also just the factthat you had the experience with
Speed Vegas, you understood thetourism industry, you have a
background in technology.
Why did you decide to createTripWorks and enter the tours

(10:44):
and activities space?
I know it's you know, it's uh wealways talk uh at an arrival
conference about how fragmentedthe industry is.
Uh, obviously there was a coupleof uh larger players and still
are in this space.
Um, but I see it as still abusiness that's been ripe for
continued innovation.
And I remember seeing some ofyour team members showcasing
your technology and highlightingwhy Tripworks over other

(11:05):
solutions that are out there inthe marketplace today.
And I do want to get into thatbecause it's one of the things I
always find so fascinating aboutbusiness strategy is competitive
advantages and some of thethings you've done that is
really unique in the sector.
But before we get into that,Aaron, tell us a little bit more
about why you decided to getinto this specific industry.
Did you just see a bigopportunity from the outside
looking in that this you know wewere lagging behind and that you

(11:26):
had the right technology or theright kind of way of solving
this?
Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 (11:30):
So the the the the I I don't know that I got into it
at at any early daysintentionally.
And I'll kind of give you thelineage that predates um
Dripworks.
It really uh traces its rootsback to Speed Vegas.
At Speed Vegas, um, you know,this is now 2011, 12, 13, when
we began to think a bit aboutthis, the landscape for
technology was dramaticallydifferent than it is today.

(11:52):
We um um had a few players thatwere a year or two in their
journey, but in our particularcase, it wasn't much of a
problem.
I had a really strong technologybackground, and so naturally we
built all the things that weneeded in-house to power Speed
Vegas.
Um, and so that we that's why weended up there.
At that time, there reallyweren't the level of systems
that you're gonna findcommercially available today.

(12:12):
Now, as it turns out, it was abit of a blessing in disguise
because we um when we when wereally started the attraction,
like many new attractions, we wehad theories and strong ideas
about how that business would besuccessful.
Um, but we sprayed resources inevery direction.
We spent money on taxi tops inLas Vegas and billboards and

(12:33):
radio ads and uh certainly OTAchannels, offline partners, uh
casino hosts, paid advertising,PR, really everything, right?
And I remember uh very stronglymeeting with uh the team that we
had running our paid ads becausemy view was that was probably
gonna be something that wasgonna power success.
And I it became pretty clearthat in the end, they suffered

(12:53):
of uh with a lack of systems andtechnology to help us meaningly
figure out if that channel wasgonna do well for us.
I think our budget was about10,000 bucks a month for paid
ads.
And uh after a few months, wedecided, look, this is an area
we're really gonna double down.
And so a lot of the things thatultimately made their way into
Tripworks started from thatparticular problem.
And once we got highly confidentthat we could track every dollar

(13:17):
spent to acquire a customer andits result in the business, then
it became a matter of justpouring gas on it.
In the case of paid advertising,we went from spending$10,000 a
month, thanks to our ability touse technology to track the
outcome, to$15,000 a month,$20,000 a month,$50,000 a month,
$100,000 a month, approachingnearly half a million dollars a
month in paid ads alone.

(13:38):
Now, I tell you all that becausethat's a story that inspires a
lot of operators.
They find that they really justthey they feel like they should
be doing a lot of these uhactivities to grow the business,
but without a really, reallyamazing technology platform,
it's difficult to see if it'sworking.
So I think that was uh that wasa thing that really helped power
the business success when itexited that became the heart and
the DNA behind TripWorks.

(13:59):
So I think that's probably oneof the areas where that that we
generally tend to doparticularly well.
We connect well with attractionsthat are ultimately trying to
grow and scale their business.
Now it's not everybody.
What I have found the hard wayis that there are lots of very
successful operators that arepassion-led.
That's a guy that lives in SanDiego on the beach, and if he's
got uh you know enough uhrevenue to cover his rent and
share his passion with somefriends, he's happy.

(14:21):
There's no reason not to runyour life that way.
And for him, there are lots ofways to you know get products on
the market that satisfy thatneed, where we tend to do well
for those growth-orientedcustomers.
So that's probably one of theareas that that we really
focused and have done well on.
Um when you talk about thelandscape, I think one of the
things that I learned quickly isthat our industry is highly
fragmented, not just on the onthe on the customer side, but on

(14:44):
the technology side.
The needs of someone to operateuh the Empire State Building are
dramatically different than ayou know a paddle board operator
in Florida or something likethat.
And so we sit in a corner ofthat ecosystem.
And for those that that that umhave needs that we can solve
well, we do really, really well.
But there's a room for a lot oftechnology providers in our
space.

SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
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SPEAKER_02 (17:35):
And now, back to the show.
One of the things that reallystood out to me, Aaron, the last
couple of years, because I thinkit's going back three or four
years ago when we actually werefirst introduced, and I'd seen
you take a substantial booth atthe uh arrival conference in San
Diego.
That was one of the first timesI'd seen Tripworks.
And since then, I continue to uhencounter more businesses that
are using TripWorks as theirplatform.

(17:56):
Even as I've looked to bookexperiences uh myself in
Destination, I was like, oh,it's powered by TripWorks.
And so I've seen your continuedgrowth and success.
Now it's one of the key reasonsI wanted to have you part of
this uh series that we're doing,is because obviously I want to
get your uh business insights sothat our listeners can certainly
uh learn from uh not only whatyou've accomplished and also

(18:16):
continue to scale this business,but also the types of
experiences that you're uhfocusing on.
So let's maybe dive into thatfor a moment because you've
mentioned some of theseindividual operators, which is
obviously part of the challengeof our industry and how
fragmented it is.
And I know you have everythingfrom venues like axe throwing,
and just to give our listeners abit of an overview, I mean,
you've got adventure activities,entertainment venues, which

(18:39):
really connects to the fever uhepisode we did last week.
You work with a lot of touroperators, which, as our
listeners know, is a big part ofmy background and a category I
remain very bullish on.
But you do things likeeducational classes, uh
attractions, and so quite a widevariety.
Um, but one of the things Iwanted to specifically ask you,
only because I kept hearing itcoming up in conversation, is

(19:00):
that companies were choosingTripWorks, not necessarily just
as their first option, but theywere with an existing provider
and they were switching over toTripWorks.
And I know that to me, at leastAaron from the outside looking
in, has been one of the waysthat your business has grown and
become successful, is that otherother uh operators who have been
either kind of disenchanted withuh the platform they're

(19:21):
currently on or are looking foran alternative.
And again, anecdotally fromconversations I've overheard and
from people that have chosen topartner with you, pricing is
obviously one uh big advantage.
And I know you do offer like azero platform fee, so it's you
know, there's a booking fee, butobviously I'd I'd love for you
to speak to this.
And also the other thing is thetechnology itself, some of the

(19:42):
functionality, whether it be themaps or calendars, um, really uh
rivals a lot of yourcompetitors.
And so when people look atactually, I've got better
technology and lower pricing,this makes a pretty easy
decision for me.
So again, that's my perceptionfrom the outside looking in.
Tell us a little bit morestrategically how you've
approached these industries andwhat you see as your competitive
advantages.

SPEAKER_00 (20:02):
Yeah.
Um that was a I jotted a notebecause it's a great question, a
compound question.
You touched on a couple ofthemes.
First is uh switching.
So I would say one observationthat I've uh made over the last
uh maybe I don't know, five orseven years is that if you were
to go back ten years ago, thethe the message for a technology
provided in the space wasdramatically different than it
is today.
And I'm not talking not aboutAI, that's a whole thing.

(20:24):
Ten years ago, far more people,particularly in North America,
but really across all markets,were operating in pen and paper
and doing just a fine job.
And so entrants in that space,um, their core message was we're
gonna help you modernize yoursystem and get off pen and
paper, right?
And that really resonated well.
The products at the time werevery focused on organizing
physical reality, right?

(20:44):
So your physical reality is youhave three canoes and you go out
today, or you have ten jet skisor helicopters, whatever it
might be.
Those days are largely behindus, right?
It's against market by market,but certainly Europe, uh,
Australia, North America, um,it's not common to find a
significant operator that'sstill operating in pen and
paper.
So that message is generallygone.

(21:05):
But what that means is the theplatforms that were birthed
during that era, their focus wasfundamentally on organizing
physical reality.
That what does that mean?
That means calendars, manifests,finding out if your people today
are vegan or have certainpreferences when they arrive and
their height and their weightand things like that.
So the products were really umum product delivery or service

(21:27):
delivery focused.
That was the value they offered.
That's really kind of gone awaytoday.
That's table stakes.
Every every operator, well, notevery, but a large percentage of
operators today, and this ispretty well borne out in a lot
of the work that um DouglasQuinby at Arrival and the rest
of the folks over there havedone bear out this notion that
people are using a stack today.
We arrived somewhere near theend of that.
And so by the time we showed upuh, you know, around uh 2021,

(21:51):
something like that, the messagewas significantly different.
At that point, I think we reallyspoke to some new trends that
were occurring.
One, um, people were reallyinterested.
Now, I described a moment agoabout how that was a big passion
of us at Speed Vegas, and ourfocus on growth was quite
successful.
So operators that are saying,like, yeah, I've got calendars,
I've got manifests, but are youreally helping me grow and scale

(22:12):
my business?
That really uh did quite well.
Second, I think, you know,there's a renewed focus on
usability.
Uh, you know, third, enablingthe customer experience.
And I can talk at great teethabout what that means, but
there's just a lot of new trendsthat have arrived over the last
couple of years that we've beento address.
Now the question remains, allright, well, why can't the
people who have been here for along time, who arguably have a

(22:34):
lot of experience and a lot ofmomentum and mass roll forward?
And the way I like to describeit is, Dan, let's say you and I,
you know, we decided to go intobusiness together, right?
We see a problem, we want tostart the problem together.
You and I would go in a cornerwith our laptops and we create
the product, we would bring itto market, and we would create a
minimum pro viable product andwe'd find someone to use it.
And what would happen is thatfirst customer almost certainly
would come back and say, Dan,Aaron, you did a great job.

(22:56):
We love what you've done here.
However, um, you know, youyou're a little off.
Imagine, Dan, it's it's sort oflike Visual Act to use is it's a
it's putting a rail track downor a train track down.
All right, and we you and I laythat train track down that
represents our product vision.
The feedback that we're gonnaget back is gonna say, Dan, you
you need to move the traintracks a bit to the left.
You kind of missed the markhere.
Your product would be a lot moreinteresting to me if you did

(23:18):
this instead of this.
And you and I would take go backto our laptops and we would rip
up the train tracks and we'dmove them and we would repeat
that.
That's not so hard to do whenyou have one train running on
the track or no trains at all.
But when you reach a point whereyou have um, to switch analogies
now, 5,000 operators or 15,000operators or 50,000 operators
using your system, changestructurally becomes practically

(23:40):
impossible.
It's not uh, it's not through alack of willpower, it's not
because you can't see the needs,you're not hearing the needs,
but you and I, frankly, wouldhave the same problem with ours.
If we got to the point where wewere quite successful, at that
point, adapting to the realitiesof the changing market becomes
structurally, exceptionallydifficult.
So I my two sense is that'swhere a lot of the incumbent

(24:01):
operators find themselves today.
We have entered an era of changethat I haven't seen since 2000
that is stunning.
And we'll talk about that laterin the in the podcast.
But if you've got cement bootson or use whatever analogy you
like, it becomes exceptionallydifficult to uh innovate today.
So I think that's why we'refinding the success that we are.
Uh, we are at a point where weare able to move rapidly, we are
able to be responsive, we areable to uh adapt to the demands

(24:24):
uh of the new operator, of thenew uh customers who are looking
for experience, looking fordifferent communication styles,
all the things are looking for.
And that's that's I think one ofthe biggest reasons we've done
with the same thing.

SPEAKER_02 (24:33):
Yeah, I appreciate you sharing those insights
because one of the things I dowant to talk about is in terms
of where you're headed is themulti-day tours.
I mean, the multi-day tour forme is probably one of those best
examples of the technology umcement boots that you just
described, because a number ofestablished channel managers and
also distribution partners thatwere optimized around day tours
really struggle to uh expand, topivot, to incorporate multi-day

(24:57):
tours, despite how big thatsector is, currency being one
challenge, how prices areloaded.
And so there's many factors thathave prevented them to this day
of being able to successfullymove into multi-day.
And as you've seen, Arrival hasactually started to really
embrace multi-day and bring inmore multi-day operators, but
the technology absolutely stilllags behind.
Um, but let's talk about some ofthe uh consumer trends and some

(25:21):
of the experiences that youoffer.
And I think that would be reallyinteresting for our listeners uh
to understand.
And maybe let's start with thefact that you know we are, you
know, just coming towards theend of the World Cup, um,
depending on when people arelistening to this.
I don't want to timestamp it toomuch, but at least, you know,
with uh let's say July andAugust summer travel for the
Northern Hemisphere.
I would love to hear what you'reseeing as far as the consumer

(25:44):
booking activity.
What are some of the trends thatare standing out to you in terms
of what people are booking,where people are choosing to
travel?
And obviously, I know yourbusiness, you're based in the US
and you have a lot ofAmerican-based partners.
Are you seeing more of anincrease in domestic travel this
year, given some of thegeopolitical challenges?
But yeah, give us a bit of anoverview of how you're seeing uh

(26:05):
summer 2026 in-destinationexperiences.

SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
Yeah, another great compound question.
I find myself right now.
Yes, excellent questions, and Ifind myself wanting to comment
on portions of that.
Yeah, so I'll break this down,your your question to perhaps
two halves.
The first is what what are weseeing?
What are the trends out there?
What's what what uh what areconsumers looking for?
And then second, um, maybe morespecifically, North America, how
are its sort of geopoliticalfactors affecting uh travel here

(26:29):
domestically?
What are we seeing?
On the former, yeah, I would sayum absolutely, we're seeing the
shift away from cookie-cutter,rigid day tours.
I saw some uh Expedia data theother day.
It said something like 71% ofall travelers are looking for uh
activity and tour providers togive them something that's
highly personalized, uh, lots ofrecommendations compared to even
just a year or two ago.

(26:50):
And so a lot of operators aremoving uh to support toward
things like flex time booking.
I don't particularly care whattime today you come, as long as
you come, modular options,upgrades, add-ons, uh, you know,
those sorts of things, butallowing a guest to build their
own adventure is somethingthat's pretty significant.
Second, how they're buying, thatthat continues to evolve and
shift, right?
So we're seeing OTAs uh continueto uh pick up considerable

(27:13):
weight in the marketplace.
I don't see that trendreversing.
Um I, you know, we're reallypassionate about helping
operators manage uh the percentof traffic that goes to OTAs for
commission reasons.
But the truth of the matter isOTAs continue to pick up steam
and cannibalize other parts ofthe marketplace.
And third is where customers areshopping.
Uh it it while OTAs are a partof it.

(27:33):
Um anyone who has kids, ask yourkid how they're consuming
information or even you look atyour own uh usage patterns.
But chat is a really, reallypart of helping people orient
themselves.
I'm personally, as you've heardme talk about this at arrival,
really optimistic about thatthird.
Uh and uh stop me if you want tocarry this for another question,
but let me tell you why I'm soexcited about this.

(27:54):
I, you know, like everybody,have a Yelp account.
Uh, I've got a TripAdvisoraccount, and I've got whatever.
Uh I'll go to Expedia and searchfor hotels when I'm traveling.
The problem with that is if Itype in hotels in my market, I I
have no confidence thatPriceline or Expedia or whoever
knows me, right?
And so I have no belief that therecommendations that I get back

(28:16):
today reflect my uh budget, mypricing preferences, my travel
habits, all those sorts ofthings.
And so, you know, it's amarketplace.
Whoever bids at the top gets thebest placement.
And I, as a sophisticated buyer,am aware of that.
I think it's a dramaticopportunity, not just for OTAs
and for travel partners, but fortourist attractions too.
And I'm really excited abouttechnology at some point, safely

(28:40):
being able to get to the pointwhere I can get really, really
customized the specificrecommendations about what I
want.
My phone is loaded witheverything about me.
What I like to do, where I liketo go, you know, colors of rooms
that I like.
And so if I can find a way tomake it that you and I are
sitting in a bench and wedecide, hey, what's there to do?
And it'll say, across thestreet, Dan, uh at 3 p.m.
today is a whiskey tasting.

(29:00):
I know you love whiskey tasting.
Click here to buy the tickets.
I think that kind of an outcomeis really exciting.
So I think I think that's thedirection that that that a lot
of buyers are looking for.

SPEAKER_02 (29:09):
Well, one specific one, I we I'm gonna uh hit you
now with a series of trendquestions that I think will be
really interesting to ourlisteners, especially given the
the data that you have and theperspective uh given you working
with so many different providersand powering their um their
booking solution.
And and just to highlight to ourlisteners, one of the things
that's important about that isthat you know when you work with
a company like Tripworks, andfor those of you who are

(29:31):
multitasking as we're havingthis conversation, it's
Tripworks.com.
And uh I highlight that becauseas you are you know looking at
their solution and justunderstanding this industry, one
of the things that's reallyimportant to know as an operator
is first of all, obviously youneed to choose the right
technology stack and the rightpartner to be able to power your
reservation system and to beable to take bookings.

(29:51):
Um, but the second part of thatis distribution, um, which is as
important to make sure that yourtours are available to be booked
on any of the platforms thatpeople might uh want to discover
you on.
So um I'm gonna come to that ina minute with Aaron, but just I
thought I'd highlight that as itrelates to the consumer trends
and what you're seeing, whetherit's booking direct, booking

(30:11):
through intermediaries, um, andalso how far things uh travelers
book ahead.
So one thing I just wanted tocomment on and and ask you to
share, if you wouldn't mind, isthat you know you mentioned
Douglas Quinn Bee, who is uh agreat friend and colleague,
obviously, to us both.
I believe he's one of youradvisors.
He's like, and he is you know aterrific individual.
I mean, can think more highly ofDouglas and I always sit in
front.

SPEAKER_00 (30:33):
I don't know if he's listening.
I hope that he's not, but I'lltake that chance to say yes.
He's a really, really tremendousum resource in our industry.
Deeply respect the work he'sdone, his passion, his
leadership.
Uh really interesting guy.

SPEAKER_02 (30:44):
For sure.
And I you know, highlight thatfor those of you who know
Douglas.
Obviously, that's gonna butthose of you who don't, just
gravitating to what he shares.
I always sit in the front rowwhenever he's kicking off a
conference and sharing the data.
One of the things he recentlydid, Aaron, when we were in uh
uh Sevilla in um in Spain acouple of months ago at the
Focus Rate Europe conference ishe highlighted of arrival and

(31:06):
what it looked like 10 years agoin terms of people booking in
advance compared to today.
And it's one of the big shiftsthat now you know 60% of people
are actually booking theirin-destination experiences in
advance.
Um whereas it was like 80% werejust booking them in destination
before to talk about beingfragmented and people just
getting to a destination anddeciding what they were going to
do.
Whereas now people are, as youpointed out, reading Yelp

(31:28):
reviews, they're they're they'redoing their homework, they're
trying to figure out whatthey're gonna do in destination,
they're booking in advance.
So, my direct question to you onthis um is that if roughly half
of all tour and activitieshappen um um that if you still
have about uh 40% people bookingin destination, um, what are you
seeing from your experienceworking with providers?
Are many of those people still,you know, that 40% um that are

(31:52):
booking in destination?
Um, are they booking you knowwithin three days or next day?
And then do those numbers thatarrival has shared track with
you as far as people bookingbefore travel?

SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
The compression is is isundeniable.
Uh and it's been slowly trendingthat direction for a couple of
years.
Um again, getting back to SpeedVegas, I remember that we
identified in the early daysthat um locking the consumer
down before they get to marketwas a really, really critical uh
skill to nail down.
The reason is because if you'resitting at home exploring uh

(32:25):
opportunities out of market, soyou're not yet in your market,
um you know, the the supplier,uh uh in this case the chore
operator has a real opportunityto tell his story well in a rich
and a creative way, you know,visuals and videos and those
sorts of things, um, you know,measured and and uh with lots of
detail.
Um that opportunity goes awayonce they're in market.

(32:49):
They're often sitting somewhereon their phone.
And so, you know, the the waythat you communicate them, the
media uh and the medium has tochange.
Number two, the economics aresignificantly different.
I think we've concluded uh overthe last year or so that uh on
average for our industry, uh,the average spend per visitor
now who's buying in marketversus out of market is about
15% to the negative.

(33:10):
So uh if I can convince you tobuy my product before you get to
market, I'll get 115 bucks outof you.
If I can convince you to buy myproduct when you're in market,
I'll only get 100.
And there are lots of reasonsbehind that to often buy um
larger activities or larger uhyou know, bundle offerings or
add-ons or upgrades where theymight not do in-market.
Um, number two is um, you know,the the volume, the third, not

(33:32):
just the size drop, but thevolume drops.
And it's because once you get tomarket, you're not competing
with a lot of really aggressiveother retailers through other
mediums, again, taxi tops,billboards, those sorts of
things.
So you're fighting much moreaggressively for the in-market
traveler.
So for us, I think our passionhas been helping operators
figure out how to solve thatmessage as well as possible, as

(33:53):
far upstream as possible.
And we do that, and that that'sreally kind of uh one of our big
differences rates to ourabandoned cart flows, which on
the face don't sound uhparticularly novel or
interesting, but I'm here totell you that the difference
between doing that thing welland doing it not well is a game
changer.
It's a huge, huge key to successat at Speed Vegas.
We um dramatically drove our topline by engaging uh tools to

(34:16):
help uh get those dollars beforepeople got to market.
So, yeah, that trend change uhis continuing.
I don't think it's gonna change.
I think smart operators shouldnot throw in the towel on it.
You really need to fight as hardas possible to get those dollars
while they're out of market.

SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
Now let's talk about what trips they're booking
because one of the things thatstood out to me is your
educational uh options.
Now, something that clearlyanyone listening to this knows
that we you know we've movedfrom the experience economy into
this transformation economy.
Obviously, you know the storywith Joe Pine as well.
And one of the things that, youknow, I'm telling every listener
something they already know ifwe think about consumers

(34:49):
prioritizing experiences overmaterial possessions.
But what I find fascinating islike what they're actually
choosing and how that continuesto evolve.
So one of the categories thathas seen significant growth is,
and obviously you know this aswell, is culinary.
And I know arrival started toreally focus on that food tours.
I mean, when I'm at the arrivalconference, every second person
I speak to now runs food toursand meaningful uh size

(35:11):
businesses as well, as I wouldhighlight too, right?
Yes.
Um, and so that's an area thatis continuing to really grow and
scale.
I would love to know from yourvantage point, since you ever
offer everything from hot airballoon rides to you know axe
throwing.
So obviously you have those umexperiences in destination, but
you also you know work with touroperators.
Where are you seeing the umconsumer, where are you seeing

(35:33):
consumers start to prioritizeexperiences?
Or what what are what isbreaking new ground?
What is particularly interestingor telling for you?

SPEAKER_00 (35:40):
Um Yeah, look, I think that there is always some
churn at the top of the market,um, and there is an anchor at
the bottom.
And structurally, I think, youknow, again, we're humans,
right?
And so humans just tend to wantto do things when it's warm out.
And so we do find that warmerclients continue to do well, and
I don't think that's gonnachange much at all.
Second, is um water tends to bea big unifier.

(36:01):
Uh, I think people hu humansjust want water.
And so it's boats, it's it's jetskis, it's it's um, it is um uh
you know uh paddle boarding, uhkite surfing, uh, um whale
watching, all those types ofactivities continue, right?
So that's really not changing.
What is changing uh is is uh afamily of activities on the top.
You've highlighted a few, suchas uh food tours, yes, that's a

(36:23):
big, big driver in Europe.
It's it's it's a pretty big uhdriver.
We're seeing it uh in othermajor North America markets.
Um obviously New York is big,Miami's big, um, Las Vegas is
significant.
We're seeing some variations ofthat.
Uh intersection of uh bus andfood is interesting, uh like uh
tea on the strip is uh onethat's uh taken across a couple
of markets.
Uh we are seeing uh decline inin some segments that were fast

(36:47):
a few years ago.
Axe throwing, you've mentionedthat a few times is a good
example of that.
Um one has not held up well.
I think there was a lot ofinitial enthusiasm around that,
but not one that we've seen hasuh or will likely stand the test
of time.
Um couple to keep your eye on.
Uh uh I don't know, have youbeen to Meow Wolf?
Of course.
I love Meow Wolf and I've had uhthe founders on the show.
Yeah, huge fan.

(37:07):
Uh yeah.
Um I don't if someone hasn'tbeen to it, I don't even attempt
to describe or explain it.
Um it's really something towatch.
It's really remarkable.
So yeah, it's it uh the themarket does continue to evolve,
stable at the bottom, lots ofwater uh and physical uh
activities, experiential thingsare are like experiencing uh,
you know, uh helicopter ridesaround the Statue of Liberty,

(37:28):
those sorts of things areunchanged.
And at the top, yeah, there'ssome movement for sure.
That'll continue.

SPEAKER_02 (37:32):
And then as it relates to uh the platforms and
distribution, that's uh so Iobviously want to talk a little
bit about multi-day, but I alsospecifically want to talk about
distribution, since that is soimportant for every uh operator
that's looking to scale andgrow.
And one specific thing before weget into OTAs and different
distribution partners is one ofthe big topics that we're gonna

(37:54):
be continuing to focus on isseason eight is social commerce
and marketing.
And so many operators, not onlydo they need to make sure
they're bookable, but they needto get the word out.
And many of them, a smalleroperator utilizing social
channels, and we know howimportant those are, especially
reaching younger generation whenit comes to TikTok and short
form video.
And so when it comes to drivingdirect bookings first, Aaron,

(38:15):
uh, how important do you seesocial media?
And is there any one thing I'mnot aware of with your platform?
And obviously you can educate meand our audience on this, um, is
being able to provide directbooking links if people are
viewing the content on socialplatforms to be able to
instantly book that experiencethey've just seen that looks so
amazing for everyone else thatwas just enjoying themselves.

SPEAKER_00 (38:36):
I yeah, huge.
So let me kind of set up my viewon uh distribution.
Um, I think a fear that a lot ofoperators have is that uh more
distribution means losingmargin, right?
I I think that can be true.
Uh I cringe when I hearoperators that have significant
portions of their revenue drivenby OTAs.
Uh and I'm talking, I hearoperators that are 60, 70, 80,

(38:58):
90 percent.
Um again, this is I'm notanti-OTA, but you know, the
structure here is that an OTAwill commonly uh strip the uh
brand from the from from thefrom finding a little bit of the
consumer.
And so the consumer has no ideawho they're buying from.
I actually bristle with the uhagainst the use of the phrase
supplier.
I think it's a little insultingas someone who's built a
significant tourist attraction.
You put blood, sweat, and tearsinto your identity and your

(39:20):
branding, and to see thatcompletely stripped at the
one-yard line is very, verypainful.
Um so um I'm sympathetic tooperators uh that are in that
position.
Um relying heavily on one OTA,you're handing the keys to your
business.
The moment there's a betteroption, you're out and they're
in.
So uh I think a more moderateview is is as having them fit a
small piece.

(39:40):
It's not either or, but it's asmall piece.
Uh, you know, I uh uh getexcited uh when I find a mix of
in the teens.
Uh I think that's reasonable,and a strategic use of OTAs for
distribution.
So maybe you can't filllast-minute inventory or there's
certain um, you know, uh uh daysof the week or things like that
that that you you struggle todeliver uh directly.

(40:01):
I think that can be a piece ofit.
I think OTAs can be a reallygreat billboard uh to capture
that first-time traveler.
Uh and then if you're able touse your internal platform to
turn the direct bookers, that'sa big win.
Now, how do you do that?
Um you you if you watchcarefully, you'll often find
that that a new traveler will uhfirst look on OTAs to see what's
out there.
And then there usually is anopportunity to uh uh to connect

(40:24):
with that traveler directly, butmaking sure that you've you've
done so in a compelling way thatgives them a distinct advantage
to buy directly from you isreally up to you.
So that's that's prettyimportant.
Um what was the other half ofyour question?
I I I I in fact I missed thehalf of your question, but I
wanted to make some points aboutI do think operators need to be
careful about too much OTA.
I think OTs have value for uhhelping uh retail and and and

(40:46):
market your business, but needsto be done carefully with
balance.
We'll be right back.

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SPEAKER_02 (42:36):
And now back to the show.
As you highlighted with OTAs,one of the big challenges for
operators that are not familiarwith having to pay 30% or even
higher in commission, which ifit's a$100 purchase, it's very
different when you're sellingsomething that's you know$5,000.
So one of the big challenges hasbeen for operators that are

(42:58):
selling multi-day tour to workwith operators or OTAs that are
used to much higher commissionson a smaller ticket size.
And you know, when you look atthese operators that are if
they've been in existence formany years, they're used to
dealing with commissions.
And so they've actually built upa pretty significant B2B
business.
And the opportunity for them ison direct because they've
realized, wait a second, I'mpaying 15, 20, 25% commission.

(43:20):
If I can get business lower towhere our conversation first
started, is you guys werespending more on paid media to
drive more traffic directly.
Obviously, you were seeing anROI on that, and that's why you
scaled.
And so most companies are youknow starting to do more on
direct.
And it's one of the things thatoften comes up, Aaron, in our
conversations is you know, howdo you manage your overall
marketing strategy anddistribution?
And how do you make sure thatyou're you know set up to

(43:41):
succeed for both B2B and B2C?
So while we're having theconversation of B2B, I would
love to get any additionaladvice from you to uh operators
listening to this, because I'msure as soon as you said that,
you know, stripping the brand ofthe one yard line, I mean, I'm
sure a lot of suppliers, to useyou exactly the term that you're
preferred not to, um, feel that.
That way.
That it's just like it's one ofthe challenges they have.

(44:03):
So what would you suggest issort of an unlock there with
like what if they should bethinking about distribution, um,
how they should be approachingit in a much more positive way
to say we're not just going towork with any OTA, we're only
going to work with OTAs thatstill maintain our brand and to
your point, give you somethingthat you couldn't otherwise get
yourself, which is maybe sellinglast-minute uh spots on trips to

(44:24):
help fill up inventory.
So yeah, finish I please bysharing some additional insights
on succeeding in B2Bdistribution.

SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Yeah, well, look, I think that that this market has
had a structural problem for along time.
And this is going to turn into ayou know a rival uh promo
session, which isn't uh theintent.
But again, I'll give Douglas alittle bit of uh credit for
spotting and helping identifythis problem in the early days.
And uh let me break this down.

(44:51):
In the 1950s, if you wanted tobuy uh an airline ticket, you'd
go directly to the to theretailer uh and and you'd buy
that ticket.
And so ultimately that became ahighly fragmented marketplace
and led to the to theintroduction of solutions like
Sabre.
Sabre is sort of the languagethat generally allowed you to go
to Priceline and buy,irrespective of whether the act

(45:12):
uh whether the flight wasoffered by United or American or
whoever the airline might havebeen.
Tremendously successful.
And it got to the point whereyou would have high confidence,
as you do today, that if you goto any particular website and
you buy an airline ticket, itwould even cross your mind that
you have a problem when you walkup on the day at the gate,
right?
It's extremely mature.
Consumers have grown to trustit.

(45:32):
That uh same structure rolledforward and across other
markets.
Uh hospitality is the same way,exact same thing.
You can go to Expedia today andyou could buy a hotel and you
have 100% confidence when youwalk up to the front counter of
the whatever inn that yourbooking will have been received.
Uh, and it has moved a littlebit into other markets, but our
industry has been late.
It's been last.
It's it remains highlyfragmented.

(45:54):
There um has never been aparticularly great way for you
to have high confidence thatyour supply could be offered
universally across lots and lotsof platforms.
So today, someone offeringthrough uh Viador is one
project, offering thenadditionally through get your
guide is another and throughBatch and uh, you know, it goes
on and on down the line.
Highly fragmented distributionhas been a big, big problem.

(46:16):
And so um, as you probably know,uh that led to the advent of
something called Octo, which weremain super excited about.
Octo is sort of to our industry,what Saber has been to the
airline industry since the1950s.
It becomes a way for suppliersto clearly and cleanly make sure
that their activities can bedistributed across lots and lots
of partners, uh, automaticallyexchanging pricing, uh,

(46:38):
availability information,booking data, cancellation
payments beautifully and clearlyand seamlessly back and forth.
Now, the problem is that uh ourindustry still has some
holdouts.
It would be the equivalent ofour space to United Airlines
saying they opt out of Saber.
It's a big problem.
Um, and you can see why thatwould create a problem for both
uh operators uh and travelers.
And so that is a structuralproblem in our industry today.

(46:58):
I think until we see a littlemore adoption of that, it will
remain challenging, difficultfor operators to make sure that
their activities aredistributed.
Um we do think it's a betteroutcome for everybody if you can
get uh you know great access toall the things to do in any
given market, irrespective of ofwho the supplier is.
I think that's a better, bettercase for all.

(47:19):
So I think that's one structuralchange.
It's gotten better.
Uh it is moving forward.
I think we're still a couple ofyears out, but I do think that
that is gonna uh net be a prettybig uh improvement for a lot of
suppliers.

SPEAKER_02 (47:29):
Aaron Powell One last question on distribution,
and I'll ask this around themulti-day tour, since it's one
I'm keen to uh to discuss withyou is and uh from you know uh
extensive experience myself, Iknow how important distribution
partners are for multi-daybecause it is much more of a
high-touch product and trust,which is something I also want
to discuss with you, theimportance of a trust in the
entire booking process.

(47:50):
Um but tell us if you wouldn'tmind, Aaron, are you guys
looking at expanding intomulti-day?
And if so, you know, how are youlooking at bringing in that
product and distributing itsuccessfully?

SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
Yeah, I think you highlighted uh and and look,
I'll probably power just did alittle weird thing, but we're
fine.
Um I would probably, for thoseof you that are listening and
considering starting a uh abooking technology provider, let
me just disabuse you of thatmotion.
It is, no kidding, exceptionallydifficult.
And the reason is because uh theneeds of an operator uh who

(48:21):
might be axe thrawing is such uhuh dramatically different from,
again, helicopter or a whalewatching tour, uh, that it
stretches your ability to do soreliably in a scale.
And so what you tend to find isthat uh booking providers like
us will start and do well in oneof three pockets.
The first pocket are things thatare single day, at two o'clock
you can come do the thing.

(48:42):
And that's an area that that wedo particularly well, and others
have done well.
But the overlap between that andthe rentals market, while they
sound similar, they'restructurally a lot different.
The the flow at which you uhadvance through a checkout
process or the way at which youhave exclusive use of an asset,
whether it's a side-by-side or aboat, are quite a bit different.
Multiday is another third one,it's a little bit different.

(49:03):
Um you're often, you know, yourcheckout flows will have two
date pickers.
When you're starting, whenyou're ending.
You highlighted some otherchallenges that are unique to
multi-day, like currency.
So what happens if you travelbetween uh a market with
currency A and a market withcurrency B?
The the challenges go on and onand on.
So both of those are significantareas of growth and development
for us, but it's sort of thestory of our space, the

(49:24):
fragmentation of the needs ofdifferent operators make these
things uh not so easy.
Uh it's it's it's uh a little alittle more complicated than
anyone would guess from theoutside.

SPEAKER_02 (49:32):
Yeah, so it sounds like you're moving in that
direction since you do have anumber of tour operators.
Obviously, that's a core part ofyour business.
And so um the other thing I wantto switch into is just on the
direct side.
And so my question to you aroundsocial media in particular is
just we keep hearing about theum the potential for social
commerce and being able to workwith influencers and drive

(49:53):
bookings and just how andespecially now as we're starting
to see uh SEO wane in the faceof AI search.
And again, a topic I'm gonnakeen to ask you about as well.
I got lots I want to cover withyou, Aaron, which is why you
know I um end up asking compoundquestions because I'm trying to
get, you know, I'm it's uhthat's uh the beauty of the
podcast format is like along-form question leads to
long-form answers, but um, but Ialso want to make sure we hit

(50:14):
the highlights as well.
So the one thing I wanted tospecifically ask you is around
direct booking activity.

SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (50:19):
And and what you're seeing with your partners is
most successful, and if and ifspecifically um social booking
is is real and you're seeingthat your clients are utilizing
your platform to be able to makea direct connection between
inspiration and actually leadingto a transaction.

SPEAKER_00 (50:37):
Yeah, sh short answer is no.
Um I'd like that to be true, butbut the the the reality is uh
you don't often uh uh activelycurate in and search for you
don't use social as a searchengine.
So the problem is if I'm sittingat home, it's very uncommon for
me to say, you know, on a socialnetwork, I'm going to, you know,
uh Paris next week and what'sfun to do.
That's just it it it's just nothow that structurally operates.

(51:00):
It tends to be consumptive,you're served content, and
you'll flip to it.
Great place for top of funnel ofbrand awareness, brand
authority, exposure, and thosesorts of things.
But the dotted line between umexposure and intent is a little
far.
And so there are folks that thatwork it, have some success, but
it generally tends to be bettersuited toward uh awareness and

(51:21):
exposure and less toward uhdirect uh commerce.
Where we are seeing it though ison chat applications.
That's dramatically changingrapidly.
So I I would encourage you tolook more closely at that.
Um, that's where we're seeingseismic shifts.
People are, in fact, uh usingchat interfaces, chat GPT or um,
you know, co-aut or whatever itmight be to say, I'm going uh to

(51:42):
Nashville this weekend, give mesome top three things to do.
That is absolutely thebattleground.
And I think you're seeing atremendous amount of movement
and direction.
Earlier this year, Stripeannounced something called the
um agentic, I'm sorry, um it waswith Stripe, but uh OpenAI
announced the Agentic CommerceProtocol, which died a few
months later.
But the everyone is movingrapidly that direction.
And the holy grail is that Ican, using the power of my

(52:03):
phone, which knows everythingabout me, say what's their fund
to do today, and they'll say,hey, Aaron and Dan, there's a
whiskey tasting across thestreet in three hours.
Would you like to buy it now?
Like that is that's probably theholy grail.
And I'd say that's probablywhere the battleground is coming
from.

SPEAKER_02 (52:16):
Well, let's talk about uh AI in that regard then.
Since clearly, you know, youjust mentioned AI search results
as a great way to make sure yourbusiness is optimized for where
travelers are spending theirtime today.
And you've seen those stats fromFocus Right highlighting the
last three quarters, you know,that it's gone from 30 to 40 to
56 percent.
It's rivaling Google search now.
And so um tell us a little bitmore about how you're seeing

(52:38):
agencai AI incorporated intoyour platform, how travelers are
booking.
Uh from your perspective, how isit impacting the customer
journey?
And also how are you embracingit in a way that is starting to
make a meaningful difference foryour business and your platform?

SPEAKER_00 (52:53):
Yeah, I I did a uh a talk on this um uh a few months
ago, and um you know I painted apicture, I'll have to think of
what the notes were, but thereare two or three outcomes here,
and I don't know which one itis, but one is uh there is
potentially a world where OTAsdie entirely, right?
Um because to the extent that Ican get hyper-local uh uh

(53:17):
information about what'savailable for me to do, and I
can engage in commerce directlythrough uh through chat, you
have to kind of wonder what roleum OTAs uh uh play in there.
OTAs are really about curationand discovery and retailing.
And that frankly is somethingthat that AI does exceptionally
well.
That chat does exceptionallywell.
So that's one possible outcome.
Second outcome is that OTAsactually step in and fill that

(53:41):
gap exclusively.
And and uh there is uh a counterprevailing theory that that's
the likely outcome.
Um my personal view is I've metwith most of the leadership
teams of the major OTAs, andsome are aggressively moving to
capture that ground and probablydo well.
A few others look like they'restuck uh like deer in the
headlights.
So it may be if you doparticularly well and if you go

(54:03):
away entirely.
And a third likely outcome isneither of the above.
There's something we can't see,there's something new.
We're in step one of a 10-stepjourney, and uh it will change
in the future.
But I think that's thebattleground that's shaping up
right now.
Will consumers buy increasinglydirectly through uh AI
interfaces, uh ChatGPT, or willOTAs uh continue to gain
strength and take that place inthere?
Um every week, look at theheadlines, something

(54:25):
dramatically uh some there's noannouncement, there's no
initiative.
So there's the the prize isenormous.
Uh and uh it's not gonna justnaturally go to someone that's
being fought for.

SPEAKER_02 (54:35):
Yeah, and and this is the part that I'm really
intrigued to see how it playsout because obviously we had,
you know, 20 years ago the lastmajor technological shift with
the dot-com era, and there'slots of parallels between then
and now.
Um, as I'm sure obviously bothof us being kind of a similar
age and looking at your careerand when you sold your first
business, like you know, youwent through that exciting

(54:56):
stage.
And it's I think for uh for anyof us who did, we're back at
this point where it's just likeit feels so exciting again
because there's so much there'sso much riding on this that
could move in differentdirections.
And the the phrase that I liketo use, which is similar to what
you're referencing, is that youknow, there is the potential for
the dam to break if all of asudden agentic booking tools
people start to trust them andthey're no longer beholden to

(55:20):
this you know uh process thatreally you know we've only known
it for 20 years, but it'samazing how quickly it became
the default standard that yousearch, you get results, you go
to websites, and then you go toyou know OTAs to make the
booking.
And if in a world where websitesare no longer relevant, where
you have agentic tools acting onyour behalf, then you know
websites become irrelevant, thatwhole search process also

(55:41):
becomes meaningless.
That's right.
And all of a sudden, but the onething I'm bullish on for you and
for your operators is at the endof the day, and this is one of
the things I love about travel,is the human element.
And so that you know, at the endof the day, people need to get
on that hot air balloon or theyneed to, you know, they they're
gonna go to a meow wolf, theywant to have that end
destination experience, but buthow they're finding it,
discovering it, how they'rebooking uh changes, but they

(56:02):
need a platform like Tripworks.
And so TripWork needs to beagnostic.
I'm telling you something youobviously already know as far as
you know, they can book direct,they can book through
intermediaries, and so we'llservice the intermediaries, but
the likelihood that that's goingto shift and change is is quite
significant.
So let let's let's talk aboutwhat's ahead, Aaron, for both
TripWorks and the industry, andyou know, finish our last 10

(56:25):
minutes just discussing whereyou think this industry is going
in 2027.
So I'd love to hear you, Visa.
And we're having thisconversation midway through
2026.
We've talked a little bit aboutconsumer uh behavior changes,
we've talked a little bit aboutAI and direct and and uh and
different distribution options.
Um tell us what are some of thekind of the big trends you're
paying attention to, andobviously feel free to go into

(56:46):
more detail on what you werejust highlighting because that
is clearly one of the biggesttopics we need to um navigate is
you know the future of OTAs inthis space.
And I I agree with you.
There's some people that arebullish on it, and other people
think that you know it's gonnabe it's gonna be the first um
industry to really be disruptedwith agentic AI.
So, yeah, what are some of thethings you're paying attention

(57:07):
to you'd highlight for ourlisteners?

SPEAKER_00 (57:09):
Yeah, um uh I'll nearly repeat verbatim what you
just said, except I won'tbecause of the interest of time,
but I I could not agree more.
I do think at the end of theday, operators will need um
systems and tools and platformslike Tripworks to organize their
physical reality.
You still have to keep track ofof all the stuff going on.
Number two, you're right, we'rehumans.
That's not going to change.
Uh I went on a uh cruise shipwriter recently, and uh it was

(57:32):
pretty clear that that's gonnahave very, very little impact uh
on the face of AI.
It's just the mechanics ofmoving people through a physical
world are are largely uh gonnaremain um uh unchanged.
Um I agree with you that uh theweb is likely to uh take a big
hit.
Uh I don't know what shape orform, but the world of having an

(57:53):
SEO website is is now open forgrabs.
I'm not optimistic uh about uhOTAs long term.
I think the way that I look atit is that uh you look at any
major system that's beendeveloped, ultimately what
happens is this whether that'sum Facebook or it's a Twitter or
any Google for that matter, anyYouTube, these ecosystems, they
start, they solve the coreproblem, and then uh a periphery

(58:14):
of parasites will hop up,sucking value out of that
ecosystem.
And you know, you saw it from uhuh social media influencers
offering different things on topof uh networks like Instagram.
Ultimately, the host expands toconsume that.
Um, and so to me, that's alittle bit what OTAs feel like.
They are ultimately going to beextracting value from that core
um uh um problem that that thatuh OpenAI and other platforms

(58:36):
solve.
And it's there's just too muchat stake.
So the likelihood that they movethat direction, crowd OTAs, I
think is worth looking at moreclosely.
Um I would say looking forwardthe next couple of years for an
operator, the concept of anisolated tech stack is
absolutely going over seeingmassive consolidation.
The worlds of having fiveplatforms, one for voice and one
for text, and one for messaging,and one for QuickBooks, one for

(58:59):
marketing, is really, reallygoing away.
That that's gonna be prettysignificant.
Um I think that uh manyoperators today are in a
position of fear about adoptingnew technology.
Um you know, but but I think youknow, at the end of the day,
operators are really, reallysmart to um keep their eyes open
and be open to changing thingsthat they thought to be true in
their technology stacks withnewer um newer solutions out

(59:22):
there like Tripworks.

SPEAKER_02 (59:23):
Well, just on that note, obviously, you know, as
you continue to build out theplatform, I'm keen to know where
Tripworks is headed becauseobviously, you know, it's uh
clear to me, and I'm sure it isto our listeners as well, Aaron,
even hearing you describe that.
Um you are quite astute andsavvy in understanding where we
are in terms of the traveltechnology ecosystem and some of

(59:43):
the things that are like verylikely to shift and change in
the coming years ahead.
And so as you are anticipatingthat, clearly you're making
decisions about you know whatproduct you're gonna focus on,
what platforms.
And now just genuinely curious.
I mean, we have a globalaudience, and so I'm sure many
of our listeners are gonna beintrigued to know you know where
you are today and where you'reheaded.
Are you expanding into newmarkets?

(01:00:05):
Are you expanding into differentproduct categories?
Tell us a little bit about wherethe platform, the team, and your
overall growth and expansionplans.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:12):
Yeah, it's um you know, it's been interesting in
the early days.
I think we solved differenttypes of problems we are now.
I think increasingly enterpriseoperators are looking to us to
solve their problems, I think,as we're maturing and growing.
So our average customer profileis about triple where it was two
years ago.
Uh larger operators, moreestablished, bigger problems to
solve.
Uh their problems solveeverything from the customer
journey to economics,accounting, tax, security.

(01:00:34):
So there's lots of these sortsof issues that I think we've
been positioned to sell well aswe've grown matured.
Um but yeah, there's no end tothe opportunity.
It's a really exciting place tobe today.

SPEAKER_02 (01:00:43):
Yeah, the one thing I would certainly highlight to
all of our listeners is that alot of the um well-funded uh
travel OTAs, or even um if youlook at companies uh certainly
like a get your guide or clukethat are you know looking to go
public, you know, we've seen,you know, they've had the uh
private investment, they'relooking to go public, and all of
a sudden these numbers are goingto get more scrutinized.

(01:01:04):
They're very focused onprofitability.
We even saw this recently withExotica.
Um, you know, they're now doing$400 million and they're focused
on multi-day and they're nowprofitable.
And so there's these messagesthat are clearly needing to get
out about the growth andprofitability.
And so um I actually, you know,uh I'm very bullish in the next

(01:01:25):
not just 10 years, but 20 yearsin this overall category.
So I think you've picked a um agreat industry to be a part of.
Obviously, I'm thrilled that youknow you are uh a key player in
this space now because I thinkthat it's uh it's ultimately
what keeps a lot of othertechnology platforms honest is
great competition and being ableto have someone that comes into
the market that does somethinginteresting and unique.

(01:01:45):
And that's again one of the bigreasons I wanted to have you as
part of this uh conversation.
But I want to make sure that allof our listeners, Aaron, having
met you today on our podcast,um, know where best to connect
with your team or reach out toyou directly with more
questions.
So uh what would be the bestways for our listeners to do
that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:02):
Yeah, uh a lot of great ways.
I'm on LinkedIn.
I uh still email is great.
My email is Aaron A-A-R-O-N attripworks.com.
Um uh website, Tripworks.com,has information as well.
But uh love to engage and talkto operators.
It's one of my favorite parts ofmy job.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:16):
Fantastic.
And I know you're clearly anavid traveler.
I know you're uh based just outof New York City, and so which
is um, you know, speaking to theteam from Fora.
You know, New York is such agreat city to be based in as a
travel business becauseeveryone's coming through New
York at some point over thecourse of the year.
Um, but clearly you'retraveling.
Tell us a little bit about whatyou still have planned for your
travels for the rest of theyear, both uh personal and

(01:02:37):
professional, if you wouldn'tmind.

SPEAKER_00 (01:02:39):
Sure.
Well, Hawaii's been atremendously evolving market
over the last year, a lot ofstructural changes.
So I think I've been to Hawaiifour times this last year.
It's a long haul.
I will say that from uh NewYork.
It's not as close as it mightlook.
Um, Europe has been fun.
I've visited Belgium last yearfor the first time, Amsterdam a
few times, uh uh Paris, um,England.

(01:02:59):
Um so I will say that's one ofthe things about this role that
uh I do enjoy.
I do love seeing operators.
I do love travel.
It's hard not to love travel,but um seeing uh our operators
and our customers share theirpassion with others is is is
certainly a big part of the job.
Very exciting.

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:14):
Sure.
Well, I certainly look forwardto seeing you again in person.
We'll uh in Spokane at thearrival conference later this
year in October, um, likely theFocus Right conference as well
in uh Florida in November.
And um uh and I you know reallyappreciate making the time for
this conversation and and um andfor our listeners and myself to
learn more about Tripworks andwhat you guys are working on.
Thanks for sharing so manyvaluable insights with us,

(01:03:34):
Aaron, and good luck and wishyou and the team great success
for the rest of the year.
Thank you, Dan.
And thanks to all of ourlisteners for joining us for
episode two of our InDestination series.
Thanks again to our seriessponsor, Pernot Ricard, for
sponsoring this series.
If you want to find out moreabout Purneau Ricard and their
brand homes, check out PernotRicard.com.

(01:03:55):
And thanks again to Aaron forjoining us and sharing all the
fascinating insights aboutwhat's happening at Tripworks.
It was great to see him againand to hear the continued
success that they're having.
If you want to check out moreinformation about them, check
out Tripworks.com.
And then don't forget, we dopost clips and highlights on our
social channels, which you canfind on Instagram, LinkedIn, and
YouTube at Travel TrendsPodcast.
And next week we have episodethree of our In Destination

(01:04:18):
series, and then we're gonna bewrapping up season seven with a
very special guest, the creatorand producer of the amazing
race.
So I look forward to uh sharingthat with you over the next
couple of weeks and then havingeveryone having a bit of time
off in August before we launchseason eight in September.
Thanks again for joining ustoday, and until next week, safe
travels.

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