Why Canada's Travel Industry Is Ready for a Payments Shake-Up with Mint Payments

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Payments can make or break a travel sale, yet much of the industry still treats them as behind-the-scenes infrastructure. In Company Spotlight, Dan sits down with Philip Hancock, Chief Commercial Officer at Mint Payments, as the company expands into Canada.

The conversation explores what it means to build a travel-first payment service provider, from collecting customer payments and managing risk to supporting supplier payouts. Philip explains why the payment experience has become a meaningful point of difference, especially when flights, hotels, and packages can look similar across multiple channels.

They also discuss what makes the Canadian market unique, including its mix of Commonwealth roots and U.S.-influenced payment habits. One of the biggest questions is who should act as merchant of record. Philip breaks down how controlling the payment can improve cash flow, simplify the customer journey, and strengthen the agency relationship, while also bringing greater responsibility when disputes arise.

From there, the episode turns to one of the industry's most painful topics: chargebacks, fraud, and the growing ease of one-click disputes. Philip shares how Mint Protect is designed to help agencies respond to claims, manage risk, and reduce potential losses.

The discussion also covers fast-moving payment trends, including pay by bank and buy now pay later, along with the importance of offering flexibility without overwhelming travelers at checkout. Finally, Dan and Philip look ahead to the future of AI in travel payments, proactive risk detection, and how payment data can reveal deeper insights into booking windows, demand shifts, and customer behavior.

Learn more at mintpayments.com.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:05):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to a live podcast
recording of Travel Trends herein Toronto.
I am thrilled to be joined byPhilip Hancock, the Chief
Commercial Officer of MintPayments.
Phil, welcome to Travel Trends.
Great to have you with us.

SPEAKER_01 (00:17):
Thanks, Dan.
It is fantastic to be here inToronto.
It's uh great to meet you, um,very well known in the industry,
and it's really good to uh speakto you about travel, speak to
you about Mint, and talk to thetravel industry in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 (00:28):
Terrific.
No, it's fantastic to have youhere.
I'm so glad that we were able tosit down in person like this
because obviously Mint Paymentslaunching in Canada is a
significant development.
And so let's actually startthere.
And just to give our listenersan overview of Mint Payments,
what you guys do.

SPEAKER_01 (00:43):
Okay, we are basically a payment service
provider.
So we provide um we talk aboutthree parts of our business.
We talk about collect, we talkabout safeguard, and we talk
about uh send.
So on the on the collect side,quite traditional, we help um
our travel merchants with takingpayment from their customers.
Uh traditionally that's creditcard.
We also do other paymentmethods, pay by bank and buy now

(01:05):
pay letters.
We have uh a safeguard product,which is called Mint Protect,
which maybe we'll talk aboutlater.
And then we help with supplypayments, which is a big side.
So we're a payment serviceprovider, 100% focused on the
travel industry.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16):
That's great.
And obviously, people heard fromthe introduction Mint's been
around since 2007, and it'squite staggering when um I got
to know a bit more about Mint,is that you're doing 3.5 billion
in annual transaction volume.
We've got more than 2,000merchants.
So this is a very sizablebusiness that's been around uh
for nearly 20 years, and hereyou are now entering the
Canadian market.
So it's great to have you withus.

(01:37):
And obviously, Toronto, this ishome for me, and this is the
commercial hub for business inCanada.
Tell everyone what brings you toCanada and why you've decided to
focus on this market.

SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Yeah, so well, Mint's been around that long,
but I think we've really beenfocused on the travel sector
since around 2019.
Uh good timing for us.
We went when we really kind ofdoubled down on the on the
travel sector.
Um a couple of quiet years atthe start.
But we've um we're focused,we're both we're based in
Sydney.
Um, we have uh most of our a lotof customers in the Australian
market.
We moved into New Zealand marketin about 2022.

(02:11):
Um, and we've always had theaspiration to grow globally.
Uh last year we opened uh in theUK and we have a sizable team
based in London, and we werelooking for the next step.
And uh Canada was, you know, welooked at a few places, but it
was really for us the obviouschoice.
Um the travel industries aresimilar, not exactly the same.

(02:32):
There's obviously a lot of kindof cultural sharing, business,
and and and uh wider.
And uh look, we just likeCanada, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 (02:39):
Yeah, and I there's many reasons why I completely uh
agree with you.
One thing I actually wanted justto address at the beginning is
you have such a lovely Englishaccent, not an Australian
accent.
Both accents are great, but youare from the UK originally.
I am and uh so for both of us,obviously I was born in the UK,
uh as were you, and then you uhhave been living in Australia
for more than 25 years.

(03:00):
I've been I lived in Australia,as I mentioned to you before, um
we got a chance to startrecording, and I love Australia.
And I these are my favoritemarkets, the UK, Australia, and
Canada.
Half of our listeners, ofcourse, are in the US, and
obviously that's a massivemarket and drives a lot of the
global travel business.
But a lot of things we're gonnabe talking about here on the
podcast is the Canadian marketand why it's having a moment.

(03:21):
And um, you know, as we'rerecording this, the rendezvous
conference has been on here inToronto, uh Toronto Tech Week,
and um, you know, you're here ina very kind of monumental week
for Canadian tourism, and soit's a perfect time for you to
be here to understand howsignificant the Canadian tourism
market is.
Um, but before we get into allof that, I think it would be
interesting for our listeners tounderstand your backstory and

(03:41):
how you got into this spacebecause you actually, you know,
you've got your MBA, you'veyou're very smart and you've uh
obviously achieved a lot, butyou also have a uh specific
background in the travelindustry.
So help our listeners understanda little bit about uh who Phil
is and how you ended up at MintPayments.

SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Yeah, I'm I'm travel.
I'm traveling straight out ofuni.
Um got a job in a travel agency.
I was a travel agent for two tothree years.
I was not a great travel agentfor two to three years.
I worked in uh leisure travel, abit of corporate.
Um that was in the UK and thenuh working for in the airline
space.
Um moved over to uh Sydney in in2000, um, stayed in travel,

(04:17):
worked in travel tech.
So I've kind of done all fourcorners of the industry, worked
GDS, worked airlines, Expedia,um, hotel beds.
Um and how I came into Mint, uhit was uh COVID, I think is
where I landed up.
I was uh launching again at GoodTiming a an OTA in the uh
Australian market into 2019.

(04:39):
So I was looking for a travelspecialist payment provider and
uh was talking to Mint, talkingto the CEO Alex, um, and when we
decided not to progress thatthat online travel agency, um
they asked me to join the teamthere, and I have been there
ever since.
And you know, it it'sinteresting.
I uh though I am travel travel,um, payments has has really kind

(05:02):
of I've caught the bug and Iunderstand the importance of it,
and it's strangely enjoyable.

SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
Well, and the interesting thing, I mean, I
think the payments sector isprobably the most misunderstood
and least appreciated side ofthe travel industry, but
actually it's where a lot of theuh conversions, you know,
there's so many benefits toreally understanding payments um
in terms of not only increasingconversions, but also cash flow,
paying suppliers.
And so this is a conversationthat most travel companies need

(05:29):
to be having to reevaluate whotheir partners are and making
big decisions around their uhprofitability of their business.
And merchants and so this forme, it was a spotlight episode I
was really keen to have for allof those reasons.
And I want to make sure thatover the course of our
conversation together, we covera lot of those topics that would
be of great interest to ourlisteners to better understand

(05:52):
the payment space, understandwhat's unique about mint
payments.
I was speaking to my colleagueuh about this beforehand, and he
was highlighting to me about alot of the work that Mint has
done to really improveoperational efficiency and
achieve uh some big gains on theback end side.
And I want to make sure that weclarify from your vantage point
what that all means.
But um, in terms of Mint beingin the travel space and really

(06:14):
specializing in travel, take usthrough a little bit of that
journey in the last four or fiveyears because there is an
interesting parallel, not onlyin terms of travel trends
starting post-pandemic, but alsocustomer behavior changing
substantially post-pandemic.
And people used to put 100%payment up front.
Now they like to do partpayments, they like to put
deposits down.
And people have realized thevalue of money because, as you

(06:35):
well know, prior to thepandemic, interest rates were at
an all-time low, and then all ofa sudden, interest rates you
know shot through the roof, andpeople started to realize the
value of money.
And and and also they also gotunfortunately burned by some
travel brands during thepandemic that wouldn't refund.
And so this industry has beenunder a lot more scrutiny.

(06:55):
I know you guys do virtualcredit cards and how you pay
suppliers and trying to makesure that you know that
everyone's gonna get paid in theright order.
So this area has gone through amassive amount of change.
So I would actually say youjoined the industry at the right
time because it was actually theyou know on the other side of
the pandemic as travel came backin a big way.
So tell us about the last fewyears in travel for mint
payments and really what makesyour platform unique.

SPEAKER_01 (07:17):
Yeah, without dwelling too much on the COVID,
I think we've all heard enoughabout that.
But the um but it it you'reright, it it's made some
significant changes to theindustry.
I think what we're what I'verecognized, and I I'm kind of
strangely passionate aboutpayments, and strangely
passionate about payments intravel, is that it uh how
important it is to all the waythrough the customer journey.
You know, it's not just the bitat the end where you you give

(07:39):
the money after after theservice has been provided.
It's it's a differentiator onthe service that you provide.
You know, I d someone said to meat a travel agent the other day,
being quite frank, he said, tobe honest, a lot of the time I'm
telling the same thing to on thesame see it's on the same plane
to the same place as the otherguy.
And what differentiates me is myservice and how people pay is a

(08:00):
large part of that.
And something we probably fromthe in the travel sector forget
is that customers are makinglarge purchases, emotional
purchases.
You know, there's there'sthere's a trust issue that
they're buying something theycan't feel, they can't touch.
Um it might just be that youknow annual vacation, which is
hard, you know, hard-earned, uh,it might be the bucket list um

(08:22):
purchase.
But they s when that you knowthey're passing over ten, twenty
thousand dollars sometimes, howthey pay and and that whether
there's friction or whether theyfeel uncomfortable is incredibly
important.
So we we we really I don't know,we're in payments, but we do try
to express on our on ourcustomers, our partners, that it
is more than just a bit ofplumbing, uh a bit of wiring at

(08:44):
the back um about the money.
And I think you know, we if welook at what a a travel agent,
travel consultant does, it'slike a third of the time is
spent making payments, takingpayments, organizing payments,
reconciling a payment.
Um and that's time that could bespent growing the business,
dealing with our customers.
And it's it's not it's not funwork, it's not the fun bit of

(09:06):
the industry.
You know, you're not sittingthere and talking to someone
about uh you know organizing thehoneymoon or sending the parents
away to Europe, you know, we'retalking about you know just
trying to get that bank wreckhappening.
Um so that's where we really tryto add value.

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Well, and and just to dive into that a bit uh in a
bit more detail, because as ourlisteners, travel agencies,
travel advisors, tour operatorsum that are listening to this,
obviously they're familiar withonline payments, of course.
But one of the things that'salso unique about uh Mint and
what you provide is in-personpayments.
You guys obviously do electronicfund transfers, um, you do the

(09:42):
virtual cards as well.
And then one of the things thatis the part side of the business
we don't like to talk about ischargebacks and fraud and those
issues as well.
And I know you guys haveimplemented Mint Protect, and
you've got a big focus on B2B.
And so just along those lines,as far as what uh are the
reasons that already, given thatyou are in Australia, New
Zealand, and you launched in theUK, and now obviously you we'll

(10:02):
talk about Canada in a bit moredetail.
But given your current offeringin those markets, what are the
things that you have seen thatare really resonating with
travel companies that arechoosing mint?
And what is the kind of thestandout features or
functionality that uh is seeingpeople choose you over what else
is in the marketplace?

SPEAKER_01 (10:19):
I think there's probably kind of three main
things um that bring people tomint.
You know, the first one is justthe service and the commercials,
you know, we're we're alwayshighly competitive.
Uh, you know, we know that umthere is, you know, it's it's a
low margin business.
Um taking that depends on themarket somewhere between half
percent, one and a half percent,two, three percent is a
significant part of the revenueof business.

(10:41):
So we need to keep that in mind.
Um having the understanding thebusiness is incredibly
important, knowing thedifference between a P and R and
a ticketing time limit and thosepoints, you you generally won't
get that from your add-ins andyour body cards.
Um so and then technology is isa key point.
Uh we integrate a lot, so we wewill actually work to integrate

(11:02):
with mid-offices, uh, supplierrestec, and because that's key.
You know, there's too much whatI often call the swivel chair
API where people put them outthe looking on one computer and
then they're re-enteringsomewhere else.
That's where all theinefficiencies and the accuracy
and and even fraud sometimes.
So having those integrationswith the with the workflows and

(11:22):
with the business um systems iskey.
Um and then it's just um newproducts um they're look looking
to bring into the market.
They want um buy now, pay later,they want um pay by bank,
customers arking, or just thingslike junior Amex pay by points
and having that and reallyunderstanding what motivates a

(11:43):
travel buyer is key.

SPEAKER_00 (11:46):
Well, it's one of the things that stood out to me,
and one of the reasons I waskeen to have this conversation
with you, is that I know thatthe customer experience is what
mint payments is primarilyfocused on.
And obviously, this is an areathat, you know, many companies
talk about that, but when youlook at existing travel brands,
and I work with quite a few,especially on the advisory side
of the business, that they havegone with whoever their bank had

(12:07):
recommended as their paymentsolution provider.
So it wasn't something that wasgiven a lot of thought up front,
and it's not until they have anissue or they realize there's
certain things they can'treconcile that they need to
start to look for a providerthat really understands the
travel industry.
And so this is a huge vertical.
Obviously, it's the thirdlargest industry globally, um,
the travel industry, more thanyou know, one out of 10 people

(12:27):
work in this industry in Canadaand globally, and it's expected
to increase to you know um uh 12to 15 percent over the next
several years as more people notonly embrace travel, more people
work in our industry.
And so I think this wholeindustry itself is still poised
for a lot of um evolution thanthe payment side.

(12:48):
And so you obviously you want toprovide someone that is
specializes in travel.
Um, but let's talk about a bitabout the Canadian market,
because I'm very keen to know asyou you know had success in the
markets you're operating in.
Uh, remind us again whatactually kind of inspired the
move into Canada.
And I've obviously I have a fewum uh thoughts on that.
Um but yeah, what what motivatedthe team to realize why Canada?

(13:11):
Why now?

SPEAKER_01 (13:12):
I think there's there's some more some of it
more obvious.
So you know, we're we're anEnglish speaking uh country,
largely we've got a reallysimilar size, we're about the
same population, we've got asimilar demographic, so we're
migrant countries.
Um so there's a lot of kind ofsimilarities.
Our businesses practices arepretty much the same to a large
degree, and our industry'scrossover.

(13:32):
There's a lot of people inwho've worked in the Canadian
industry, have worked in theAustralian industry, the kind of
clients we work with, the bigsuppliers are uh evident in
both.
Um there's a lot of Australiancompanies here and Canadian
companies in in Australia.
Um and but I think the otherpoint is we've we've brought to
those markets the Australia, butthen the UK, which is probably
gonna be our biggest market uhwithin a year or two, um,

(13:55):
solutions to problems that we'vehad and we've addressed, and we
feel that are still here, um,that we can bring.
We're not gonna providesolutions to every problem
there.
Um we think Mint has some somestrong value that that that can
work in the Canadian market.

SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
And the one thing I will highlight for all of our
listeners, and I think this isreally important, especially for
our American listeners that arelooking to uh market to Canadian
consumers, uh, if you break downpopulation demographics, uh the
Canadian population is about atenth, and Australia is about
you know a fifteenth when welook at the size of the market.
So there's more uh in terms ofpopulation, uh there's more

(14:32):
Canadians than there areAustralians, and there's you
know nearly 10 times as manyAmericans.
But the interesting thing forboth Australians and Canadians
is that we massively punch aboveour weight when it comes to
travel.
Yep.
And so you know the Americanmarket may be 10 times the
population, but it's more likeonly four times the market size.
So when you're thinking aboutinvesting in North America,
really one out of four or oneout of five bookings that you're

(14:54):
expecting to get is gonna comefrom Canada.
And it's very similar, andAustralia is even in a higher
percentage, um, just given thefact that Australians are, you
know, they carry uh passportsand they travel internationally
and they're avid travelers, asanyone who travels knows, you're
gonna meet Australians when yougo.
You're gonna meet Kiwis, ofcourse, from New Zealand, and
Brits are great travelers too.
And so there's a realcommonality, I think, between

(15:15):
those countries.
But as we talk about Canada,given the influence of the US,
and this is what I think is kindof unique about the Canadian
market, is that we have theBritish heritage and roots, so
you're absolutely right aboutthose commonalities being part
of the Commonwealth and um lawsand government and those things.
However, we are very influencedby the American market and the
American customer experience,Americans will tend to pay with

(15:38):
multiple credit cards.
There's certain things that arereally unique about the American
market.
Um, and I've seen this from mytime working in travel agencies.
Americans will call in and say,put$500 on this, put$1,500 on
that.
Most Canadians are moreconservative by nature.
They'll typically choose onepayment method.
But I'm very curious in the workthat you did preparing for
launching in Canada, what aresome of the things that you've

(15:59):
noticed that are different aboutthe Canadian market from where
you operate today?

SPEAKER_01 (16:03):
Yeah, and I I want to be really careful as a as a
British guy who's living most ofhis career in Australia now,
coming into Canada, coming alsoas an expert in Canada, because
I'm not, but I'm we're learningquickly.
Um yes, it's it it Canada isit's a it's a hybrid in in many
ways.
So there's a lot of culturalthings that are similar, but the
the uh the business and thepayment kind of market is is

(16:24):
very much influenced by the US.
And it's most likely we will begetting business from the US and
we we are already in the US, wewe have operations there, we
have customers there.
Um I think probably the keydifference is the the payment
flow.
Um the fact that a a largenumber of agents actually don't
even take any payment directly,or they a large payment goes to

(16:46):
the supplier and is coming backon commission.
Now that's a a traditional Iwould say legacy, but it's uh
it's a it's a more traditionalway of the travel industry
working.
It's certainly the way that usedto work in Australia, used to
work in the UK.
Um that they've changed.
Um the the the agency sector hastaken more control of payment,
is uh now the merchant of recordor or is the primary payment

(17:09):
point for the majority, um, inleisure at least, of travel.
And I think to that'ssurprising.
I knew that was the case in theUS.
I presumed it was the case inCanada, you know, when we've
been learning, not just thisweek, but you know, over the
last year or so, um, about howdominant that is.
Um and I but I think it's we'lltry I think it's changing.
I think there's a there's animpetus for that to change, and

(17:30):
we'll work we work with both.
So that's probably the the thekey change for us, all the key
difference, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Phil, it's interesting what you were saying
there uh the differences betweenthe Australian market, the
Canadian market, andspecifically this merchant of
record when it comes to whocontrols the payment process.
And in Australia, certainly themerchant of record is the travel
agency that takes the booking.
Over here, you have thesuppliers as we were talking
about that you end up bookingdirectly with.
They're the merchant of record.
So one of the things I'm keen toknow as you look at the Canadian

(17:58):
market and you see what happensin other markets, do you think
that merchant of record is goingto be something that changes
here in the next few years?

SPEAKER_01 (18:07):
I do.
And and let's be clear, I mean,the the that has evolved.
Uh, it largely came out of theUK in the very much similar
situation.
I think we need to look at whatthe benefits are of being the
merchant of record.
Um, it allows you to, you know,it firstly it gives you control
of the money.
I mean, if so you it's in yourhand rather than in your
suppliers, and you're notwaiting for for commission to be
paid, you're not always chasingthat.

(18:28):
But it also gives you theability to um package and bring
bring the whole experiencetogether.
So you can you can sell multipleuh suppliers um and you're still
the primary um conduit or theprimary contact for that
customer.
You know, let's be honest, allagents want to they're all
slightly concerned that they'regonna lose that customer to the
supplier.
And once they've got that cardand once they've got that that

(18:51):
those customer details, it'sit's all kind of inevitable
they're gonna have a lot morecontact with your customer.
So being a merchant of therecord allows you to have um
keep that primary relationship,uh, bring it all together.
Customers, to be honest, theydon't want to make five payments
if they don't have to, ifthey're they've made the choice
to deal with you.
Um that they kind of want to payyou and and want to deal with

(19:11):
you if there's a problem.
So it it it's taking slightly upthe food chain, it's allowing
you to provide a greater serviceto your customers.
Um and I think long term thatwill happen.
And there's certainly uh agentsI'm speaking to in in Canada
that that want to go that thatroute and to focus more on on
becoming the merchant of recordrather than just uh a supplier

(19:31):
conduit.

SPEAKER_00 (19:32):
Are there any any other standouts so far for you
um as you are rolling out toCanadian clients, given that you
do have uh US clients as well,um, that have stood out to you
that is particularly uniqueabout the Canadian experience?

SPEAKER_01 (19:45):
Um no, not I think that's that's probably the the
driver.
I think the um I meandestinations are different.
The the um purchase I mean, wehave a lot more crews, I think,
out of Australia potentiallythan anywhere in the world, in
fact, with the highest um buyersof crews per capita anywhere in
the world.
Um but I think the so thereobviously there is a a more of a
US influence on destination andand and kind of travel choice.

(20:08):
Um But yeah, I mean uh there's Ithink there's more in common
than than different.
Um but we've just we've got tojust be mindful of of those of
those small differences.

SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
Yeah.
The one thing I'll and I'll saythis for you, being a Canadian
living in this market, is thatyou know, and there's an
interesting bit of history here,of course, because the United
Empire loyalists, the ones thatactually stayed loyal to the
crown that formed Canada, wehave this difference in the US
of peace, order, and goodgovernment versus life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness.
And so Canadians by definitionare typically a little bit more
conservative and thereforethey're a little more risk

(20:41):
adverse.
And so they are going to,they're much more of the late
majority in terms of um uh onceyou get into a market, there's a
trust level and they see theyhave confidence, then Americans,
that late, um the late majorityis a herd that then moves in
your direction.
So this is one of the thingsthat's exciting about the
Canadian market is that once youget traction, once you get uh

(21:02):
the adoption, you know, it's amuch more significant growth
over time.
Um, but um Canadians need toknow that their concerns are
going to be addressed.
And some of the things thatCanadian uh travel companies we
learn from the US is that wherethey will uh take a more
innovative approach to thingslike um cancel for any reason or

(21:23):
even the payment plans youdescribed is that you know
there'll be more experimentationin a market like the US.
And once you find something thatworks, all of a sudden then
Canadians will latch onto it aswell, and then it will then hit
this market.
So, on that topic, one of thethings I wanted to make sure
that we discussed is some of theopportunities for travel
companies that are looking attheir payment provider.

(21:44):
And this is kind of opening upthe question of you know, who do
they currently work with?
What are the things they need tobe aware of?
And that's where I'd like tolove to get your take to help
kind of educate and inform theCanadian uh travel industry
about either kind of missedopportunities that.
May not be realizing at themoment, ways that they could
increase conversions.
So, in terms of the wholepayments experience, tell us a

(22:06):
little bit some of the thingsthat will help influence
conversion, develop more trust,and ultimately one of the things
that most travel companies arelooking to is keep people coming
back and lifetime customervalue.
What are some of the things thatmint payments or the payment
decision can really influence?

SPEAKER_01 (22:21):
Yeah, good question.
I think and but coming back tothat period about the difference
between the US and Canada, Ithink that it that is important.
And but I think Australia fitsmore in the Canadian um
experience, but maybe a littlebit more innovative.
But historically, I'm not sureit's a cultural thing, it's just
probably what's happening in thebusiness.
Um one thing we have uh seen,and working in in the UK um over

(22:42):
the last year, there's a lotmore diversity in payment
methods that's going.
So we'll see um a lot less cardpenetration in in many markets
where um either just standardbank transfer that's um is is
used uh to a higher degree, butnew new products, um obviously
the wallets are important.

(23:03):
I mean here is everywhere thatGoogle pays and Apple pays.
But the the pay by bank isbecoming um a big mover in in
globally.
Um part of that's a reactionaround around um credit card
fees and merchant service fees.
Um in some markets, Australia'sjust moved away for is moving
away from surcharging, uh, whichis that's driven a lot of people

(23:24):
to who are happy to spend$25,000on a cruise but don't want to
spend you know$100 on a creditcard fee.
Um so they'll they'll uh usejust a bank transfer.
But the pay IDs, the pay bybanks um are becoming more
prevalent.
Um the Binapy Leda schemes.
Um I suppose I looked at when Ifirst started looking at Binapy

(23:45):
Leda, I looked at them as ascredit of you know, if if you
need to do an afterpayer or etc.
You know, can you are you reallyour type of customer?
Um but there is a generationthat now are using those tools
as their credit cards.
It's the it's the method ofchoice.
Um and you know, we have apartner zip in Australia and the
US, um, which you can use up to$20,000 to use.

(24:08):
So I think the different optionsthere.
Um and you know, people arepaying later and they they want
to um pay quicker, um, it's it'sit's it's more innovative, you
know, it's faster.
Um but yeah, it's uh it's aninteresting space.

SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
So one thing I'm keen to ask you along these
lines, and when I was at thetravel corporation, and it was
obviously there for many years,one of the things we were always
trying to improve upon is uh theonline booking process and the
different payment options, andso there was a big focus towards
increasing the number of waysthat people could pay.
And so obviously that was ApplePay, Ali Pay, um, and um, but it
also was the buy now pay later.

(24:44):
One of the things we alsorealized, though, is that
travelers can get overwhelmed.
So you give them all theseoptions, and and again, the
reason I asked this question isbecause I'm keen for our
listeners to be able to gleansome of those uh benefits from
your perspective and what you'veseen.
Um, we know travelers want moreflexibility.
That's so they they want to haveoptions to do pay by bank or

(25:05):
credit card.
But how do you do that in a waythat doesn't overwhelm the
traveler when they're all of asudden there's so many different
options and they're trying tofigure out, wait a second, is it
better to do a buy now, paylater?
Is that a better payment plan?
Is that like ultimately betterfor me and my financial
situation?
How do you help travelersnavigate that so it's easy for
them and it helps increaseconversion, not negatively

(25:25):
impact it?

SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
I mean, uh a large part of that's about the UI,
about the user experience, aboutwhere you put that in the
payment flow.
But I think that the key is isreally understanding your your
demographic, your customer base.
I mean, and travel companies aregenerally really good at that.
So, you know, we'll speak to guyuh companies that don't want
Barnapellator, uh, but do wantAmex payable points or they do
want pay ID.

(25:47):
So, I mean the the number onething is is know your customers,
speak to them, and beresponsive.
If people are uh saying they'reasking for something, then
obviously you you want it.
Look at your competitors, andand you're right, don't
overwhelm.
So don't offer um the fivedifferent options.
Ideally um you let people knowwhat options are available even

(26:08):
before they start the thepayment journey, if it's an
online experience or if it'sjust a a checkout experience, so
they they can come ready uh withhow they want to pay.
So you give them that thatinformation up front.
Um and you know you you positionthe workflow in often the way
you want them to pay.
So you know, if you if you dowant to use a non-card uh

(26:29):
payment because it's it's morecost effective for you as a
merchant, then don't bury itdown the bottom um after you
know you've got Visa andMasterCard up front, and then
there's that.
So you need to bus it's it'suser experience and UI, I think
it's really important.

SPEAKER_00 (26:41):
Well, the other thing I wanted to ask you is
where you're seeing the growthbecause you know it's one thing
when uh all of a sudden there'sa realization, well, we need
Apple Pay because you know 2%are now using Apple Pay, but
sometimes we rush to do thingswhen it's like 0.001% and it
doesn't necessarily move theneedle.
So what I wanted to ask you asfar as the various payment
method methods that you'vehighlighted, what is growing

(27:02):
fastest?
And the one thing I just want toadd to this for our listeners
that I found this reallyfascinating, Douglas Quinby, who
runs Arrival, when he wasshowing some of the stats of
payments as it relates to thedifferent demographics, the
younger generation who we knewcertainly with Kentiki and those
brands, uh, were more likely tochoose part payments because
they could pay over time.
And this would have been along-standing um option for
payments so that you couldessentially a layaway plan.

(27:24):
What was interesting though isthat we've shifted between
paying before your tripgradually to now actually taking
the trip and paying graduallyafterwards.
But the amazing stat that heshared that um uh really shook
me was the uh Coachella.
He used the example ofCoachella, and then obviously
there's an incredible musicfestival in California.
The tickets can be upwards offifteen hundred dollars or two,
thousand or more if you'rebooking them late.

(27:45):
And it was nearly 70% of thepeople that booked tickets did a
payment plan.
Yeah.
Because it and it makes sensewhen you think about you know
someone in the young, you know,their early 20s or in their 20s,
they're actually gonna make surethey go to Coachella, but they
don't necessarily have$2,000 nowto buy that ticket.
So that's that to me stood outof if you're not offering a buy
now pay later plan, you're gonnamiss 70% of the market

(28:07):
opportunity.
So that's what I'm trying toshare with our audience.
So I'd love to hear from yourvantage point, what are the most
fast, fastest growing forms ofpayment?

SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Uh I want to be uh clarify that.
I think look credit card isstill the dominant form of
payment, and it's it's in ourmarket, in different markets,
it's growing.
Uh just only said it and thatall depends on things like
surcharging and and use.
But if we come back to the binalpay later, I think we need to
and I I had this thought and Iwas thinking well, it's a it's
it's a credit product, it'speople who can't afford.

(28:37):
You know, you hear the storiesof you know predatory lending
and and young people putting umyou know the the food budget on
on binal pay later.
I mean that's bad.
But what I I failed to realizeat the time was it's it's not
that they need the credit, it'sjust the form of payment.
They they have a they're justrevolving payment in the same
way as I don't really need thecredit that I get on my credit

(28:58):
card, but I use a credit card asa form of payment.
Right.
It's it's that point.
So when it comes to that thatdemographic SKU, some of it,
yes, might be they don't have acredit card.
So this is their their option.
But a lot of it's just this ishow I'd like to pay, and I put
it on that, and that's my habit.
We're creatures of habit.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (29:16):
Yeah, that's interesting.
Oh, so another thing I want toexplore with you, especially as
it relates to the Canadianmarket, is risk and obviously
the you know, cancellations,disputes, these things that you
know, it's not until they comeup.
Um, and even this concept ofmerchant of record.
Well, who is the merchant ofrecord?
And I've highlighted this beforeis that um everyone wants to be
the merchant of record untilthere's a problem.

(29:37):
Yeah, and then all of a suddenit's uh so one of the things I
know you've introduced is MintProtect.
Um, tell us a little bit aboutthe importance of that, how it
works in practice, and how uhhow important these types of
options are becoming for fortravelers.

SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
Yeah, I think risk and let's just say the word
chargeback is is something thatwe we need to surface and we
need to talk about probablymore, um, particularly in times
like now where there's a lot ofcancellations happening.
Um and being the merch of therecord is is got a lot of
benefits uh for cash flow andfor control and supply
relationships, but you know,there is a there is a flip side

(30:15):
to that.
Um you know you can get um achargeback where a customer um
decides that they don't want topay for some reason.
They they they the service theydeliver got delivered doesn't
meet their need, and we all knowthat that customer advocacy, to
put it one way, is is becomingstronger.
Um and so we you know we'reseeing uh an increase in

(30:37):
chargebacks in travel.
Now the Australian market wherewe launched Brink Protect didn't
have highly didn't really havechargebacks, we just they just
didn't happen.
But it is really starting togrow.
Um and there's there's some ofit which is is valid and some of
it which is plainly fraud, wherepeople are um what they call
first person misuse, or someonewill try to get a a chargeback,

(30:58):
get the money back when therewas absolutely nothing wrong
with their travel.
Sometimes um it's a m a matterof um degree because you want to
they're unhappy with a part oftheir travel, but the way the
chargeback system works, youhave to redo the whole purchase.
Right.
Um so they'll land up um doing awhole ten thousand dollar uh
tour when it was just one hotel.
Um we're also seeing the uh thecard issuers are making it very

(31:24):
easy to do it to do achargeback.
And I understand why they'redoing that, it's got good
customer service, but alsothere's almost no friction.
You can do a chargeback with oneclick.
Um there's also very little uhum comeback if you're doing if
you're claiming something maybeyou shouldn't be.
So the numbers are going up.
Um so what Mint uh decided to doum particularly for travel

(31:45):
agents is is provide a productcalled Mint Protect, which uh
protects them.
You know, this customers havegot travel insurance, you know,
they can you know offload thatrisk, but uh travel agents in
particular are are vulnerable tothe chargeback because you know
say they're making the the 10%um when the chargeback happens,

(32:06):
then they can be responsible forthe hundred for 100% of the
cost.
When the revenue is only 10%,the profit margin can be two or
three percent.
So uh one one one bad chargebackum around supply delivery can
wipe out a month's profit.
You know, a supply failure canwipe out an agency.
So what MIMPRTEX is uh uh doesis it provides coverage in three

(32:27):
areas.
One is uh card fraud, um, and wealso provide all the kind of
tech tools to make sure thatdoesn't happen.
Um supply failure.
So we have a big insurancecompany that that ensures us to
be able to provide that thatservice.
Um probably the most importantis uh the cases of supply and
non-delivery.
So that's where a chargeback hashappened because of uh

(32:47):
non-delivered or not described,I think the the terms that used.
And we had a classic caserecently where a family was
traveling with Turkish Airlinesto Europe.
Um they lost their Pram at theairport, um, they missed their
flight.
Turkish by the the uh the termsand conditions of the ticket
cancelled the P and R.
They had to rebook all of theirflights for the family, it costs

(33:09):
twelve, thirteen thousanddollars.
Um they did a chargeback.
The c the card issuer said yeah,that's unreasonable, but the
airline said no, and the agenthad that to to wear that twelve
thousand dollars.
So what MIMPRTEC does is is wefirstly we help um or we work
with the the agency to to kindof fight fight the chargeback,

(33:30):
but we take on responsibility.
So we'll we'll do the work andand fight working with charge
can take a lot of time, takes alot of distraction of of of of a
business.
And if they're they lose thecase, then we pay.
So um it's a great tool.
Um big companies have similar,but they have a lot of insurance
behind it and there's a lot ofwork.
Um, we do it with a smallincrease on the merchant service

(33:52):
fee.

SPEAKER_00 (33:53):
Well, I've certainly seen the stress involved in that
and even the emotional toll thatit takes on owners and agents
when they're trying to salvagebookings, and you know, they do
have those clients unfortunatelyfrom time to time, and it's the
same in any industry, butobviously it's that much more uh
disconcerting in travel whensomeone's booked and traveled,
and then they, you know, there'sa chargeback.
Are they booked and nottraveled?

(34:14):
Are they booked and traveled?
And where are if they have anissue, and then all of a sudden
trying to fight a chargeback andhaving to deal with that is a
lot of aggravation beyond justyou know having had someone take
a trip, have a great experience.
This is the sort of thing thatpeople don't focus on until it
becomes an issue.

SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
It's it it's incredibly emotional as well,
because the the travelersgenerally you know get outraged,
rightly or wrongly.
Um the agent has put a lot ofwork in, you know, they really
tried hard.
And often in these cases, it'snot it's not their fault.
Even if it is a valid case, itwas it was a supplier or a tour
operator that that managed thattour, and but they're they're
being held responsibly, they'rebeing shouted at.

(34:52):
Um and they need they what theyneed is a business like Mint to
stand with them, provide themwith technical and operational
support and financial uh supportas required.

SPEAKER_00 (35:03):
Well, and I just wanted to talk about the
liability and exposure, just umsince you know when we think
about the pandemic reality, STAStudent Travel Alliance was one
of uh the larger organizationsthat um that went under and and
they took other partners withthem because they had taken the
funds and then their accountswere frozen and they went under,
and it was a very difficultsituation for a lot of different

(35:24):
businesses.
And obviously, as you mentioned,that could take an agency under
if depending on their level ofexposure.
So help us understand you know,with chargebacks, but
specifically the liability, likewhat is the exposure?
Because I think many listenersto this like this sounds like a
pretty good proposition to haveMint Protect someone actually
fight this on your behalf, takethe hassle out of it for you,

(35:45):
and also know that this is notsomething that could um uh that
could bring your agency down.

SPEAKER_01 (35:50):
Yeah, I mean if you're using Mint Protect and it
it's uh it we're not insurancebrokers, so it's not an
insurance product.
Um, it's a protection product,so we um you you'll pay more on
your merch and service fee.
Um but it's it's it's a arelatively small percentage of
of that.
Um and effectively we we becomeliable for those costs.

(36:11):
So um it's a bit like uh a caraccident.
You know, we we require we weexpect our merchant cell
partners to kind of work with uson that case, but you know, if
if if things don't work out aswe we both plan, then uh we
don't take the money from thethe the merchant.
So what generally happens with achargeback is once a a card

(36:32):
issuer or a card holder wants todo a chargeback, the card issuer
will they do cursory checks nowon whether or whether this is a
valid uh claim.
Um they will do a chargeback andthen we are required to withdraw
the money back from from themerchant from the uh merchant
record from their bank accountand hold on to it until the the
case is uh work through.

(36:53):
Often you've only got a coupleof weeks.
Um it takes a while to get toyou, then you've got to provide
a lot of evidence, um, which ishard to do and can take you know
a day over a week or two days.
Um and so what what we're doingthere is is we're take we're not
taking the money straight away,you know, because we're we don't
take it because we're we'reliable.
Um so it yeah, it's uh it's uhit's important innovation.

(37:15):
And um, you know, as I said, alot a lot of the large companies
do that in-house, or they'll doit with uh uh an insurance
company.
Um but it it takes a lot oftime, it takes a lot of
management effort to runsomething like that.
Um we're providing that for thesmaller businesses.

SPEAKER_00 (37:29):
And the other thing you mentioned about commissions,
obviously, we've been discussingthat.
Supplier payments is anotherarea that uh travel agents need
to um prioritize and focus on.
So and I know two areas arepreparing for our conversation.
You know, supplier payments,commission collection uh are two
of the most kind of underservedparts of travel.
Um obviously there's been a lotof inefficiency there, and for a

(37:52):
long time it's been kind oftolerated.
Um, but as people start to lookat the the flow and the process
and the opportunities toimprove, what does mint payments
do on supplier payments that'sinteresting or unique to make
sure that you can reconcile withsuppliers?
Um because obviously I've Ialways talk about this in terms
of uh cash flow and making surethat you know a lot of uh tour

(38:15):
operators, the business modelfor them is you know, they
collect the cash, they hold onto that until they need to pay
for the actual services, andthere's an opportunity there for
making money on both foreignexchange and then interest.
So supplier payments, and it'salways an issue as far as when
you're gonna pay suppliers ormaking sure you're keeping your
suppliers happy.
So tell us a little bit aboutthat and how that works on the

(38:38):
platform.

SPEAKER_01 (38:38):
So we have a it's it's a slightly currently a
slightly different platformcalled Mint EFT in the
Australian New Zealand market,and um suddenly we're doing
something bringing somethingsimilar into the UK.
And effectively it's uh it's aplatform that a consultant um
can initiate a payment.
Um it can be integrated into thethe mid office platform, so it
can happen there from the umagent to the supplier, and what

(39:04):
will happen is they can make youknow in an agency 10 or 20
payments that day.
At the end of the day, thepayment is is withdrawn by us
from their bank account and it'sand it's distributed to all
their suppliers.
They both get a reconciliationreport.
So it's it's integrated, itmeans that a consultant doesn't
have to have you know access tothe online banking, doesn't have
to have a company card, youknow, the the accuracy, the the

(39:26):
the error rate goes down.
We have about a thousand agentson it in the Australian New
Zealand market, um, about 120big suppliers.
Um there's about a couple uh acouple of billion dollars in in
annual uh transfer.
So it's it's it's a well-lovedplatform.
Um and it's all aboutefficiency, it's all about
security.

SPEAKER_00 (39:47):
Um, one thing I want to get into in a moment is AI,
and the reason I want to talkabout that, obviously, not only
is it because um it's whateveryone wants to hear, um,
every company is now beingforced to uh highlight their AI
strategy and be an AI-firstorganization, so that's commonly
understood.
But as a segue into that, Iwanted to talk about Mint uh B2B

(40:07):
and what your plans are aroundthat because I was just uh
recently at an executiveoffsite.
Actually, it was at the arrivalof Valencia conference, and the
facilitator was talking aboutthe fact he was just recently
doing a off-site for a number ofbanks in the Middle East talking
about AI and how panicked theyare around how customer behavior
is changing and what it meansfor all of their banks and the

(40:28):
future of banks in a world whereAI is, you know, taking over
both the um the customer journeyand the agentic AI with the
tools that customers will nowhave access to.
And so it's really forcing banksto reconsider their value
proposition, the way theyapproach technology, even
approaching fraud, of course, aswell, because that's another big
concern as these tools continueto roll out.

(40:50):
So tell us a little bit aboutwhat your plans are for Mint B2B
to make sure that you aremodernizing and making sure that
you are meeting, especiallysupplier payments is a good
example, um, where they need tobe today.

SPEAKER_01 (41:02):
Yeah, I think it's two questions there, because I
think the the the Mint B2B isthe plan is there, what we're
building out right now is movingfrom a uh I just described that
mint CFT, it's effectively a onemarket, one type of payment
process.
The technology is available nowin in fintech to do instant
global payments at almost nocost, um, whether that be a kind

(41:25):
of uh a virtual uh businesswallet, whether that be um
virtual card, stripe stablecoin, there's there's all these
different opportunities.
Um we we're we've got a networkand we're at both ends, so we
see a unique opportunity to umconnect agents and suppliers,
and that can be one way, it canalso be the other with the
commission.

(41:45):
Um so they both get greatvisibility of where the payment
is.
It's quick, it's easy, it'sfast, and it's cheap.
Uh sounds like magic.
Um but the reality is the tech'sbeen there kind of for a while,
it's just taking people to toplug it together.
Um so I think that that'ssomething that uh we're building
now.
2027, you know, we see a bigopportunity for that in the

(42:08):
traveling scene, and that willbe a global product.
I think that's the that's thekey thing.
Um AI.
Now we're like everyone else,we're you know, I'm a I'm uh
I've probably got the sameconcerns everyone else about AI,
but I'm a I'm a tech optimist.
I use it a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (42:21):
Um I just want to highlight to our listeners too
that actually Phil's background,he was a developer with Ruby on
Rails at one point.
Like you have a technicalbackground, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
Yeah, it took a couple of years out of travel to
do that, thinking how hard isit?
It's quite hard, yeah, is theanswer.
Um but yeah, so I'm I'mdefinitely that tech optimist,
and and we as a businessrecognize you know that AI can
do a lot of good stuff.
And we're you know it'sdefinitely true that a lot of
the people are looking at thefront end right now, and

(42:50):
particularly people from outsideof the travel industry, you
know, how can travel, how can AIhelp people create great
itineraries and and choose?
But for me, the the the mediaopportunities is in that
plumbing we talked aboutearlier, the back end is bang
reconciliation, it's risk, youknow, it's processing.
Um that's what you know and andeveryone well a lot of systems

(43:10):
we've had up till now have hadto have like really clean data
and getting it organized.
So you talk to businesses aboutwhy they don't make those
changes, it's because the amountof pre-work they have to do to
get their systems ready.
Great thing about AI, it'sdesigned to be to absorb that
kind of fuzzy environment.
So, yeah, it's gonna beimportant to us, and I'm sure
it'll be important to ourcustomers.

SPEAKER_00 (43:30):
So, a question for you on this, because you know,
everyone's talking about how AIis implement influencing uh the
customer-facing side, and we'vecertainly seen that with how
travelers are embracing AIplanning tools.
What's really interesting aboutthat, you know, you look at a uh
organization like Focus Rightand Mike Coletta, who takes the
lead on their AI analysis, andone of the reports that he had
delivered just a couple ofmonths ago, it highlighted that

(43:53):
over the last three quarters, AIuse for travel planning has gone
from 30 to 40 to 56 percent.
However, people are not bookingthrough.
AI because there's still a trustconcern.
And that's it's in the therewill be a breakthrough at some
point, and the dam may breakwhere that confidence is there
with Agentic AI that people willallow these tools to make

(44:13):
bookings on their behalf.
But obviously that's one of theholdups and trust is is key in
that.
But I see, and I think most ofour listeners also know that
most of the investment in AI hasbeen in the back office and in
automation.
And so, you know, uhreconciliation is you mentioned
any repetitive tasks that willlikely disappear in the face of
AI.
The thing I'd love to ask youthough is that if we think about

(44:35):
being proactive, so trying toprevent disputes or those fraud
issues or failed supplierpayments, are there ways that
you can leverage AI or planningto leverage AI that will be more
proactive in nature to avoidactually having having to um
deal with those negativeoutcomes?

SPEAKER_01 (44:51):
It's a poignant question because um, you know,
we we have them, we have umcustomer failure issues that are
happening at the moment in inmultiple markets at risk.
So we've been spending a bit oftime, and I've I was actually
spent a couple of hours thismorning looking at some data
around some of our merchants andlooking at how can we help them
and understand or and and helpus of the risk of of um you know

(45:15):
merchant failure, but it's it'sit's a similar piece around any
customer.
It's w what are the what arethose telltales that happen um
around a customer?
You know, fraud is a is isbecoming more prevalent, it's
getting smarter, um, you know,we're people are getting you
know kicking themselves laterwhen you hear the stories of of
how they got uh scammed.

(45:36):
Um so systems that look greatwhat AI is great at is looking
for patents.
Um and largely it's around thatpiece.
So having a bit of a justwatching you know your
transaction flows, looking at uhbooking experiments of number of
you know people who have umcards that are being used
multiple times, etc.
So there are I think AI is thisis uniquely suited to to that

(45:58):
pace.

SPEAKER_00 (45:59):
Well, something that always comes up when we talk
about AI as data, and obviouslythe two go hand in hand.
Um clean structured uh data isobviously uh essential for AI to
function effectively, and as youmentioned, like being able to
process mass amounts of data andbe able to figure out patterns
and signals.
Um for our listeners that arealso trying to figure out how

(46:20):
clean their data actually is,um, how important is that from
your point of view with thisAI-driven future that we are now
facing?
And what should they be doing tomake sure that they're in a good
position to be able to optimizepayments and all the information
they're collecting on guests?
Because the thing that excitesme is when you can start to get

(46:40):
a better understanding oftraveler behavior and and who's
booking what product at whatvalue with how much lead time,
all those things are incrediblyimportant.
As you mentioned, there's a lotof cancellations happening.
Are they happening 30 days out,60 days out?
Are when people are booking, arethey booking for you know six
months from now or 12 monthsfrom now?
How important is it to get anoffer out for 2027 now versus do

(47:00):
a sale for 2026?
So I'd love to know.
Obviously, it's kind of a bit ofa two-part question, the
importance of um how clean andstructured the data is, but also
the benefits of being able toleverage that data through a
payment processing platform likelike Mint.

SPEAKER_01 (47:15):
Yeah.
I think um cleaner is betterwhen it comes to data, um,
having structure and havingnormalizing it across pieces.
But one of the great thingsabout large language models and
AI that we're using today isit's it is particularly good at
dealing with messy data.
Um so previously, changemanagement uh processes we might
want to put in place, peoplejust never got to because the

(47:36):
pre-work was too hard.
Um great thing about AI is issurfacing that data is the most
important thing, giving itcontext and providing it to
those systems.
Um so I I I would say you know,just try and get the data and
and and look at it.
Keep human in the loop.
So now we're talking a lot moreabout AI than travel, but keep
them in the loop.
Don't don't you know it still itstill hallucinates and you can

(47:59):
uh make errors there.
Um but you know paymentproviders uh it it is about um
using if you're behind on yourtechnology, if you if you're not
automating, if you if you're notusing a a good mid-office, if
you're not using a paymentprovider which um you know
provides you that access to thatdata, um you you you're kind of
locked out.
So I think it that that's thekey point I think from me is is

(48:22):
choose a choose a uh a partnerthat has that vision is on that
is on that route already.

SPEAKER_00 (48:29):
Well I'm keen so you mentioned partners.
Obviously, I'm keen to discusspartnerships, but I also as far
as how the industry is evolving.
So there's kind of one last areaI wanted to focus on for all of
our listeners that I think willbe really interesting and
important.
And it kind of goes back towhere our conversation started,
which is you know, from myvantage point, this is the most
misunderstood and underrealizedopportunity for most travel
companies is to reallyunderstand their payment

(48:50):
processing and make improvementsfor the sheer benefit initially
of just increasing conversionsand uh delighting their guests
and then also their partners.
Like it's just an integral partof running a successful
business.
But important is how it'sintegrated, especially with you
know OTAs, um uh travelmanagement companies,

(49:10):
contractors, like payments sitreally at the center of all this
activity.
And one of the things thatpayment companies have a really
unique view of, and I know thisfrom all the work that I've done
with uh the payment at thecredit card companies, to your
point about the fact most peopleprefer to pay with credit cards.
One of the things that, youknow, when you work with Visa or
MasterCard or American Express,all of a sudden you can

(49:32):
undercover, um, you can betterunderstand your own customers by
them presenting back to you whatthey understand as the signals,
especially because they have thevantage point of also
understanding uh other customersfor other travel businesses as
to you.
So not only do you have a, youknow, they currently, the the
view that they have will belimited to their customer set,
but the view that Mint Paymentshas is across all the travel

(49:54):
customers you have.
So what I'm keen to know is howyou can help your customers, you
know, better uh advance theirbusiness and know where things
are headed to be able to saythings proactively to say, wait
a second, we're seeing a trendhere where people are using buy
now paying later or people areusing alternative forms of
payment.
Here are some of the things youneed to be considering.
So I I'd love to get your viewon that as far as where we're

(50:17):
headed in the payment space andwhere you think the
opportunities are.

SPEAKER_01 (50:20):
I think on on that use of data, you're absolutely
right.
As long as you know we verycarefully protect our
cardholders' data, the BII, youknow, we have to normalize it
and kind of hash it and makesure.
But we we are we have got a lotof um intelligence, I suppose,
or or information that we canprovide our our customers.
And you know, booking.com andXPD, they're talking to Vs and I
said they're getting all ofthis.

(50:41):
You know, they they use this uhto very fine detail.
Um, you know, to to ourcustomers, if you've got the
right paper and serviceprovider, talk to them.
You know, we can provide youwith a with broader range of in
just about you, where you sit inthe data set, where you sit in
the competitors, um, lead timeschanging, etc.
So we've a lot of dataavailable.
Um yeah, we're doing more inthat space to provide more

(51:03):
broader information.
You've got to be careful, youknow, there's a there's a
security and there's a um youknow, there's a lot of oversight
on on data we have uh our headof risk is is very strong on
what we are allowed to do.
Um but yeah, I think thepayments is is is under is not
utilized strongly enough.
You know, people in a lot oftime looking in uh websites

(51:24):
using the Google Analytics, umlooking at the CRMs, you know,
trying to use d demographics,but there's a this massive piece
of data uh around payments.
And yes, we can start to see youknow some of the most payment
providers now, the big ones uhwho we partner with, something
like 96% all of all cards willgo through them once a year.

(51:47):
So the the visibility is huge.
Um bit scary, um, but but usefulif if done right.
So I think you know, work with atake payment seriously, put it
up front, make it part of youryour growth strategy rather than
just um you know the way youtake money at the end, it's
money, it's a bit key, we don'treally like to talk about it.
Um it it's a way of serving yourcustomers better, it's a way of

(52:10):
growing your business, um, it'sa way of improving the service
that you you provide.

SPEAKER_00 (52:14):
Well, and I'll just share this too, because I think
it'll be interesting for ourlisteners, because one of the
projects that I was responsiblefor for many years at the Travel
Corporation was this concept ofthe 10-year wallet.
And the uh the simpleexplanation of that was how do
you make sure that you aremeeting the customer um for all
their travel needs over a10-year span?
And so building repeat businessand having a better view of what

(52:35):
other products you can put infront of the customer, and also
increasing terms we'll use likebasket size or like that, you
know.
Um and a good example of thattoo is travel insurance.
You know, some companies theydon't even necessarily know what
good looks like in terms of youknow, we 20% of their customers
buy travel insurance.
Is it 50%?
Some companies might be 90%.
So, you know, what does goodlook like?
And obviously you have thatvantage point.

(52:57):
Um, so I think there's a lothere, and um, and I'm uh when we
close in a moment, obviously I'mkeen to make sure that our
listeners know the reports anduh various other ways they can
see you know what mint paymentsis tracking, other things they
can learn.
But before we do that, umpartnerships.
I really want to get into that,especially as we are focusing on
the Canadian market andpartnerships in the travel

(53:17):
industry, relationships areimportant, um, as we all know.
Partnerships are critical tosuccess.
And you know, you've gotobviously got uh great
infrastructure in place andexisting partners when it comes
to the Canadian market.
Obviously, I'm assuming it'sgonna be important for you when
it comes to uh to partners, andI'm sure many people will reach
out to you after listening tothis podcast, but um, how
important do you see them beinghere in the Canadian market?

(53:40):
And when people are thinkingabout how they might reach out
to you and to be able tocollaborate with Mint, I'm keen
for obviously make sure thatpeople know how best to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (53:48):
Yeah, I mean the obvious answer is partnerships
is super critical.
Um I've I used to runpartnerships for Mint before I
uh did my current role, and andwe've got uh partnership manager
in north in um Australia, NewZealand, we have another one in
the UK, and we'll we'll I'm surewe'll be employing one in North
America soon.
Um so something like 90% of our95, I think it was percent of
our transactions come through apartner, whether that be through

(54:11):
a a consortium or a host agency,is it's probably called here,
um, or it's a tech platform.
So, you know, without them, wedon't have a business.
Um we it's how we distribute ourproducts, it's how our customers
uh interact with us um throughthe the trader group or or the
technology provider.
So you know how and we're as weenter a market, you know, I've

(54:34):
spent the week I've been meetingum host agency groups, uh tech
providers, um, both on theagency side and supplier side,
and building thoserelationships, and that's how we
will work.
And I think that is probablythat's something we understand
at Mint about travel.
You know, it's it's it's it'sthe way the business works.

SPEAKER_00 (54:54):
Yeah, well, obviously, and any of our
listeners understand those termsyou mentioned about host
agencies and consortia.
It's interesting when youmentioned that because there is
term terminology that is alittle different in different
markets.
I'm learning.
Yeah.
And the host agencies is uhincredibly important to the
North America market and theCanadian market.
I mean, if you look at oneexample, travel agent next door,
um, which is a 500 million plus,it was recently bought by travel

(55:16):
counselors, my good friend JeffElement, um uh is now the CO
over there.
And it just highlights just howbig travel advisors are, the
importance.
And um, and so when you are nowfocusing on the Canadian market,
I know you've been travelingacross the country um on this
trip, you've been in Vancouverand Calgary and Toronto.
Um, what types of partners areyou looking to collaborate with?

(55:37):
What is kind of the, you know,as people are listening to this
and saying, wait a second, I'mbecause we'll have advisors who
are listening to this who arepart of a host agency, and
ultimately it's up to the hostagency to make the decision um
before it will cascade down tothat travel advisor.
And with travel agent next door,for example, I know that they
review partners like every twoyears, and this is where
sometimes our industry moves abit more slowly than we'd want

(55:59):
it to.
Of course.
So, what type of partners areyou looking to collaborate with
uh here in Canada as Mint travelgrows?

SPEAKER_01 (56:06):
Yeah, I mean the the the three main groups are the
host agencies, which it was anew when we started working in
Canada, it was a new world, wecan call them consortia or um
something else in other markets,but essentially the the same
same function.
And you know, we spoke to wespoke to Jeff and um uh etc.
and kind of uh talking to thedifferent groups.
So definitely the host agencies,but agents, you know, just reach

(56:28):
out if they've got any questionsfor me, they want to know a bit
more about mint.
You know, sometimes it's good toa bottom-up approach when when
building a business.
Um tech providers, so we'reagain talking to those and they
this is another thing that's gotlots of different names, but I
could I just generally call themmid offices, yeah so the agency,
the agency platforms, um youknow, the reserve X's and and uh

(56:51):
trays, etc., of the world.
And we and uh Travcom isactually a we're already a
partner with Travcom.
I know that's used quite a lotin this market.
Um and um yeah, and suppliessuppliers, I suppose just the
the tour operators, etc., andwholesalers that uh we work with
in in other markets, and a lotof those we already have
relationships with, so it'sabout extending them to this

(57:12):
market.
Um but anyone that wants to talkto me?

SPEAKER_00 (57:15):
Well, and obviously I mentioned the beginning,
mintpayments.com.
Uh obviously you are very activeon LinkedIn as well, as I know.
Um I do have five two finalquestions for you, but just on
this topic, if people do want toreach out, what would be the
best ways to do that with eitheryou or the rest of the team?

SPEAKER_01 (57:28):
Um send it to me.
Um, you know, I'm happy thatPhilip.hancock's one L.hancock
at mintpayments.com, or you cansend it to many of the other
ones, sales at mintpayments.com.
I don't want it to th they oftenkind of get uh into some bucket
somewhere, so send me an email.
Um I'm on LinkedIn.
Um and um yeah, just uh reachout.
We've got um some guys on theground here as well supporting

(57:53):
us and teams in in Sydney and inLondon.
Um so we'll make the time zonework um until we have the team
grown in this market.

SPEAKER_00 (58:01):
That's great.
Let's fill up uh Phil's inbox.
And so uh but two last questionsfor you.
The one about the industry andone on more personal uh and
travel and your plans is that ifyou could snap your fingers and
overnight change one thing abouthow travel payments work
globally, just out of curiosity,what what might that be?

SPEAKER_01 (58:20):
Fraud probably is it's it just doesn't it that's
it's crime, but um and it's it'sit's a purely negative thing.
It doesn't add any kind offunny.
So if we can get rid of fraud,and I think it's one of those
things that is now becoming moreimportant in travel and we're
getting better at it.
So I think it's we're goingthrough a bit of a uh a point at
the moment where it's and butotherwise it's you know it

(58:44):
sounds obvious from a paymentsperson, but take payments, put
it up front, think about itmore, think about your how your
customers um it's a gr it's agrowth tool, not just a cost.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:53):
And I know you're gonna be spending a lot more
time in Canada, and uh I lovetraveling to Australia, so
either I'm gonna see you inAustralia next or next time
you're back across in Canada,and obviously our paths may
cross at other globalconferences as well, given the
whole global profile of mintpayments and everything you guys
are working across.
Um, given the focus on theCanadian market and the fact
you're gonna be spending moretime here now, and I don't want

(59:14):
to exclude anybody, but I wasjust gonna rendezvous yesterday
and from coast to coast tocoast.
Obviously, you've got the EastCoast, you've got Quebec,
Ontario, you've got theprairies, you've got British
Columbia, Alberta, and now allof a sudden there's been a big
focus.
I asked a number of theexecutives on the event
spotlight yesterday where theywere gonna travel to next, and
almost everyone said the Arctic.
There was either Nunavut orYukon or Northwest Territories.

(59:36):
So, Phil, if um if we could sendyou somewhere else in Canada
that you'd be keen to explore toenjoy an extra week next time
you're across here for business,where might you be interested in
going?

SPEAKER_01 (59:45):
It's a loaded question.
But um, I think look, beenAustralia, I've been to the West
Coast a bit more.
You know, it's it's moreaccessible, and Vancouver's a
lovely city.
Toronto is is is a real hub.
Um and uh I spent some time inCalgary, which I haven't done
before, which is nice.
But I think for me it might bethe Maritimes up in up in the
northeast, up in uh you know,Prince Edward Island or or
somewhere around there.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:05):
Yeah, my daughter's at school in Halifax at
Dalhousie, and she loves theEast Coast.
My sister lives out there, andum, for a lot of people from the
UK, they come to uh PEI in thesummertime, uh Newfoundland, of
course.
So yeah, you definitely have to,and you're not gonna offend any
Canadians by saying you need togo to the East Coast.
If anyone that's the salt of theearth, those are you know, you
definitely need to get out tothe East Coast on a future trip.

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:26):
It's a bit of a trek from Sydney, but I think it's
it's where we want to take myfamily there.
I think my wife and daughterwould love it.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:32):
No, that's great.
You definitely need to add thatfor future plans.
And so make sure when you'rereaching out to Phil, give him a
few suggestions of things heshould do when he's on the East
Coast of Canada, because as youall know, there's so many
amazing gems to experience onthe East Coast.
Um, but Phil, it's been greatgetting this time.
Obviously, I'm thrilled that youhave decided to come to Canada
and and we've made this time toget together live in person to

(01:00:54):
be able to record this.
Uh obviously, I wish you and theteam every success with the
launch and the rollout, and Ilook forward to keeping in
touch.
And thanks again for joining usfor this special spotlight
episode.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01:03):
Thanks, Dan.
It's great to be able to kind oftalk to the sexy end of travel,
the payment side.
Um I've appreciated uh this timewith you.
Thank you.
Awesome, thank you.