February 27, 2026 • 30 mins
In this episode, Kurt Wilkinson talks with his friend and fellow host of the show, Adam Griebel, and his wife, Laura Griebel. Laura shares her story, "Floaters," about proving her abilities in the swimming pool at a summer camp. Adam and Laura both share their story, "Lonely No More," and talk about finding each other and how their relationship has evolved over the decades. And finally Adam shares his stories, "Krishna" and "Lotus Blossom", opening up about his spirituality post head-injury.
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Episode Transcript
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Kristen Gooch (00:09):
Welcome to True Tales by Disability Advocates
Podcast.
Authentic voices of peoplethriving with disabilities,
where individuals use the art ofstorytelling to change the
world.
John Beer (00:22):
The True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast is
produced by ArtSpark Texas,Speaking Advocates Program.
The free virtual training isopen to people of all
disabilities, no matter whereyou live.
Keep listening to hear how life's challenges can spark a desire to speak out and advocate for yourself and others.
Kurt Wilkinson (00:50):
Hello, you're listening to the True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast.
Changing the world one story ata time.
This is the show whereadvocates harness the power of
storytelling to build communitywith their peers and develop
empathy in others.
Hello, everyone.
(01:10):
I'm Kurt Wilkinson.
Jennifer McKinney (01:13):
I'm Jennifer McKinney.
Adam Griebel (01:14):
I'm Adam Griebel.
John Beer (01:16):
I'm John Beer.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:17):
And we are your hosts for season three.
We love to welcome Adam andLaura Griebel to the podcast.
Laura Griebel (01:33):
Thank you.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:34):
Thank you very much.
You have heard Adam on thispodcast many times before, but
we are very glad to hear Adam'sTrue Tales today, and Laura's
True Tales today as well.
But you both wrote thesestories quite a few years ago.
You all wrote these for actuallives back at around 2000,
(01:58):
right?
Laura Griebel (01:58):
Yes, exactly.
So 25 years old.
Kurt Wilkinson (02:02):
25 years ago.
So these these are 25-year-oldstories that in some aspects,
I'm sure your lives aredifferent, but there's a lot of
ways that it stays the same.
This these stories are stillvery relevant to your lives
today, and very relevant tohopefully a lot of the people
(02:22):
listening to this podcast.
And since these stories werewritten, you both now have a
daughter.
So how's that journey for youall?
Adam Griebel (02:31):
Wow.
It's unbelievable, Kurt.
Laura Griebel (02:35):
It's really fun.
So our daughter is off atcollege.
So just this is her first yearaway.
She's in another state, manymiles away.
And
Adam Griebel (02:44):
Many.
Laura Griebel (02:45):
The room that we're sitting in right now is
kind of our third bedroom thatwe had turned into an office.
And she and I, we we have twodesks, and we used to work in
here and do stuff together.
And after she left, I kind ofcleaned out the office.
As I was doing so, I cameacross our actual lives file,
and it has some writing in itthat I had actually never seen
before of Adams.
(03:06):
And one of which is thisreally, really beautiful uh
story that Adam wrote aboutbeing a dad.
Adam Griebel (03:16):
Being a toddler dad, though.
Laura Griebel (03:18):
Being a toddler, yeah.
So this would have been so thedate on this story is October
31, 2010.
So 15 years ago, which meansMadeline would have been about
four.
And it's just a beautiful piecethat I had never seen before.
And I was reading it and I wasjust blown away.
Madeline will be coming homefor Thanksgiving this month, and
(03:41):
I can't wait to show it to her.
I think it's going to beincredibly powerful for her to
read this story that Adam wrote15 years ago about what it was
like to be her dad.
Adam Griebel (03:54):
She'd wish for that.
Kurt Wilkinson (03:57):
Yeah, it's awesome that you two live lives
to where every day is kind ofits own story and how things can
update and lots of thingschange, yet lots of things stay
the same.
The story is interesting.
I'd I'd love maybe on a futureepisode of the podcast, Adam
could bring out some of thesestories.
Laura Griebel (04:18):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (04:19):
But now you've been you've been raising this
daughter for uh about 20 yearsnow, and she's going off to
college.
That's gotta be stressful insome ways for you all, but I'm
sure you're proud parents.
Laura Griebel (04:30):
We are proud parents, and it has been quite
the journey every day, Kurt.
I'll share a little bit.
And Adam wrote about this inhis piece when we were at the
hospital to have her, we had ascheduled C-section.
So we got checked into thehospital the night before.
And it was December.
Her birthday's December 7th.
Adam had left to go get usdinner and came back, and he
couldn't quite remember whereour room was and had
(04:52):
accidentally walked into anotherperson's room.
And we asked the the
Adam Griebel (04:57):
I do things like that often.
Laura Griebel (04:59):
We asked the nursing staff.
We're like, could you put ourname on the door?
And they're like, No, we can't,HIPPA.
I said, Can you put a Christmasornament or something?
It's Chris, can you just dosomething?
Well, that triggered one of ournight nurses to determine that
they weren't sure if we wereequipped to take our daughter
home.
And the next thing we knew,social services is in our room
to do a deep dive into how didwe think we were gonna care for
(05:23):
this baby?
And you know, early on it was Iwas terrified.
I was like, oh my God, they'rethey're not gonna let us take
her home.
I didn't know what they werethinking, you know.
And we had we had madearrangements.
We had Adam and I both workedat the time, we were both
working at Goodwill, and uh wehad arranged for a nanny to be
at the house.
But they were like, okay, butwhat about at night?
And we're like, well, we'regonna care for her, we're gonna
(05:44):
do everything we need to do.
But and yeah, it it was just itwas I never out of all the
preparation that we did forhaving a baby, that never
crossed my mind that that was aconversation I needed to be
prepared for.
And it was frightening and itwas wrong and it was scary.
(06:05):
And but I was telling someonethe story the other day, and
they're like, You need to gobring a picture of Madeline and
show them how wonderful she'sdoing, and da-da-da-da-da.
And that's not to say that it'syou know been a joyful, easy
every day, but I don't thinkit's been any different than any
other parental experience, tobe honest with you, unique to
(06:26):
us, but
yeah, well, that is anextremely powerful and unique
experience that I think isspecific to the disability
community, and that brings me toyour story floaters, Laura.
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (06:44):
Because I think that that is another very big
example of how as people withdisabilities, people often make
assumptions about us and put usin situations where we have to
prove them wrong in order to betreated right.
Laura Griebel (07:03):
Yep.
Kurt Wilkinson (07:03):
S o let's hear Laura Griebel read her story,
Floaters.
Laura Griebel (07:08):
One thing that surprises people about me is
that I'm a pretty good swimmer.
You see, I was born inMinnesota, land of 10,000 lakes,
and my family had a cabin.
It was necessary that I learnedto swim at an early age.
When it came time for my firstsummer attending Texas Lions
Camp for crippled children, andthe camp counselors needed to
(07:28):
determine which group ofswimmers I would be with, I was
confident I would be in the deepend with the more able-bodied
campers.
The counselors had us all swimseveral laps while they watched.
Now, mind you, by saying that Iwas a pretty good swimmer, I
meant I was comfortable in thewater.
I didn't tire easily, and Ireally enjoyed swimming.
(07:49):
I didn't say anything aboutspeed, form, or that I didn't
actually sometimes look like Iwas drowning to an observer who
had never seen me swim.
While I was swimming my laps, Iswam into the wall, and for
some reason that upset them.
You can imagine my dismay whenthe counselors assigned me to
the shallow end with thefloaters.
(08:09):
The floaters were the campersthat couldn't swim, stayed in
the shallowest end of the pool,and some even had to wear life
jackets while in the water.
I did not belong there, and thecounselors soon realized the
grave error they had made.
I was quickly reassigned to thedeep end where I belonged.
I never did accomplish thelife-saving skill of tying a
(08:30):
pair of blue jeans together tomake a floating device, but that
didn't matter.
I got to spend my time in thedeep end, proving my ability to
tread water for as many minutesas the swim teachers required,
and they no longer cared that Inever mastered the art of
swimming in a straight line.
Kurt Wilkinson (08:48):
You and I both have lived with disabilities,
and we are both quite obviouslydisabled.
So, as people who have lots ofexperience doing that, do you
personally think that that getseasier over time or harder?
Laura Griebel (09:02):
I think it gets easier because the older I get,
the more I just don't care whatother people think, in all
honesty.
You know, and and my otherstories, obviously, you know,
when you're young and trying tohave friends and boyfriends and
girlfriends and things, you carea lot more.
But as a woman in my mid-50s, II don't really care much about
(09:23):
that at all.
You know, that story from TexasLions Camp is pretty
interesting because keep inmind, Texas Lions Camp is a camp
for kids with physicaldisabilities.
So theoretically, these campcounselors were were supposed to
be a little bit better trainedand things like that.
So it was no, I never took itas a you're horrible that you
made these assumptions about me.
(09:44):
I to this day believe it wasbecause they wanted me safe and
all that kind of stuff.
And I just remember when wewere writing these stories back
in the summer of 2000, theworkshop was so wonderful in how
they kind of got us to juststart thinking about our
experiences and our stories.
And for some reason that onepopped out.
(10:04):
And I was like, How dare youthink I need to be in such a
shallow end?
You know, I grew up, like Isaid, in Minnesota.
I also, and then when we movedto Texas, I grew up next door.
My very best friend had a poolin her backyard and I was over
there all the time swimming.
I love to swim.
So when it came on to go tocamp, I was just like, What do
you mean?
(10:24):
I want to say that Texas LionsCamp was one of the best
experiences that I've ever had.
I spent six summers there, andit was the first and frankly
only time, maybe with theexception of actual lives, that
I was not in the minority.
Every single camper there had aphysical disability, and it was
(10:47):
the most empowering experiencefor me, and even more so for a
lot of other kids whose parentsmaybe didn't expect them to
thrive and didn't expect them tohave independence and didn't
expect.
I tell people all the time,parents would come out, and it
was a two-week camp.
It wasn't just a weekend, itwas a two-week camp.
(11:08):
14 nights away.
When these parents would showup, they were blown away because
we all had to have chores.
We all cleaned the toilets,swept the floors, made the beds.
It didn't matter what yourdisability was, you had a chore.
And these parents would comeback and just be blown away with
what their sons and daughterscould do.
And it was just that empoweringwe're all here.
(11:30):
So it was a great place.
Adam Griebel (11:32):
Do they still have those?
Laura Griebel (11:33):
Texas Lions camp?
Yeah, it's still very muchoperating.
Kurt Wilkinson (11:36):
Yeah, there are multiple camps in Texas that are
for people with disabilities.
It can be quite surprising thatyou can see that kind of
prejudice uh and assumptionsabout uh what people can and
can't do even in disabilityspaces.
Laura Griebel (11:54):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (11:55):
But I think a lot of that is inherent to kind
of the human experience andsimilar things to lead that lead
to prejudices outside of thosespaces.
I've experienced similar thingsat the pool at Camp Camp.
You know, all these places theyhave their systems to try their
very best to make thingsaccessible.
But in reality, disability is avery personal experience.
(12:17):
And what somebody can and can'tdo is really up to them.
Laura Griebel (12:20):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (12:20):
And it can be extremely tempting, especially
for organizations that deal witha lot of people, to put people
into boxes or have a very simpletest to put people into boxes
so that way things can be doneeasier and faster.
But a lot of ways, just askingsomeone personally, what can you
do, what can't you do, what doyou think you can do and can't
(12:43):
do is so so helpful.
Laura Griebel (12:45):
Yeah, it's so powerful.
You know, I tell people all thetime, there's a lot I can do,
there's some things I can't do.
I just just ask.
Adam Griebel (12:52):
That's what I'm here for.
Laura Griebel (12:53):
That's what he's here for.
Well, we help each other.
You know, we do we tell peoplea lot that we we make such a
perfect pair because where Ineed for help and some physical
things, and Adam from a morewould you say cognitive or
Adam Griebel (13:07):
Psychobabble.
Laura Grieb (13:09):
Psychobabble, yeah.
So we make we make a prettybeautiful pair in that way.
Kurt Wilkinson (13:15):
Yeah.
In living with a disability, itis a lot of having to explain
to people what your needs are,and it's a lot of having to say
the same thing over and overagain.
And so it's extremely nice tohave a relationship where you
two understand each other'sneeds on a more internal level,
and so you all can help eachother out without having to
(13:38):
explain, and it works out, andthat is part of the beauty of
it.
Laura Griebel (13:42):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (13:42):
Let's all experience some of that beauty
by hearing Adam and LauraGriebel read together Lonely No
More.
Laura Griebel (13:52):
I spent so many years of my adult life alone.
I don't mean without friendsand family, I mean single,
mateless.
Many dateless Friday andSaturday nights.
Many.
Adam Griebel (14:03):
I have trouble organizing my time.
I can't keep a job.
I work for three months, 40hours a week.
I work four ten-hour days so Icould take three-day weekends.
I just wanted to have fun.
Laura Griebel (14:16):
I remember a time when I would cry uncontrollably
with an overwhelming feelingthat I would be alone forever.
Adam Griebel (14:24):
I watered plants out in the hot central Texas
sun.
I was fired because I failed tokeep the plants alive.
Laura Griebel (14:37):
Then there became a period of time when I worked
through these feelings by doinga lot of getting to know myself.
I learned that it could be funto stay home and read a book on
a Friday night.
Adam Griebel (14:51):
Me. The plants. We all have our mortal lives to
live.
Laura Griebel (14:54):
I remember my friends, my friends who were
together with someone sayingthat love would come when I
least expected it.
Well, as a 27, 28, or30-year-old single woman, when
would I not be expecting love?
Adam Griebel (15:08):
I always wanted a beautiful, buxom babe.
They really got my attention.
I wanted sex.
And every now and then, I evengot it.
Laura Griebel (15:20):
You see, mine is an affectionate soul.
I love to be touched, hugged,and held.
I really love to be held.
Adam Griebel (15:29):
And then I learned that the pigeons, the monkeys,
they can have sex like threetimes in the hour.
Pigs, and they can haveoffspring twice in a year, and
each time up to a dozen piglets.
We can hardly compete.
There had to be more than justsex.
Laura Griebel (15:51):
And then came Adam.
Adam Griebel (15:55):
And then came Laura.
Kurt Wilkinson (15:58):
In a lot of the stories that you all have
written, like in Lonely No Moreand the Together version with
you and Adam, there's a lot ofstruggles about finding romance
and community and your ownself-confidence due to
disability, which I think is atheme that is very present in a
(16:20):
lot of people with disabilities.
Post your relationship and youtwo finding each other, have you
found that you both nowgravitate more towards
community?
Adam Griebel (16:30):
Other people with disabilities?
Kurt Wilkinson (16:31):
Yeah, the disability community.
Adam Griebel (16:33):
More, more so, yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (16:35):
Yeah.
Because a lot of like Lonely NoMore was talking about like
Laura in her late 20s and early30s.
You really like to be alone.
So do you think that's kind ofchanged now, decades later?
Laura Griebel (16:46):
Um, no, I still like to be alone.
Truly, what I think hashappened is that our community
of friends with disabilitiesbecame very important to us
after actual lives, throughactual lives and following
actual lives.
Both of us have actually alwaysworked within disability
(17:07):
services.
And so our work has alsobrought us into these
communities, but it was such anincredibly powerful experience.
The five years that we werepart of actual lives, especially
that first year.
The writing workshop, I mean,
Yeah, Chris.
I gotta say, well, we had a girl who had
fibromyalgia.
(17:28):
I didn't, I'd never heard offibromyalgia before in the year
2000.
I didn't have a clue what thatmeant.
This is someone who presentedas completely able-bodied, and I
had no idea what it meant forher.
We had all these differentpeople, older, younger.
It was such a learningexperience.
(17:50):
For me, having a congenitaldisability, having lived with a
disability all my life.
Yeah, it was it was just soincredible.
And and for me, it was sobeautiful and we loved it so
much.
I mean, we would meet everySunday at the age building.
I would look forward to that.
I was so excited.
We'd meet, I think, from likeone to four every Sunday or
something.
(18:10):
And I just I loved it.
We we got to know those folksso well.
And then we had Madeline, andwe got to be on the Gene and
Dave show once with Madeline.
They came to the house andinterviewed us, and it was a
beautiful way for Madeline tohave people with disabilities in
her life because they'refriends of ours, not because,
(18:32):
you know, we're doing somethingspecial around disability.
We just happen to have thesefriends who happen to have
disabilities.
And to this day, she'll likerun into some friends of ours or
whatever and be like, hey, Isaw Nancy and Renee.
It'd be great.
So I think that again, eventhough we both have disabilities
and worked within disabilityservices, that artistic
(18:53):
environment and that very realand and frankly raw writing of
disability as adults, talkingabout sex and all the other
things that we would talk aboutwas so unique.
And and honestly, I've neverseen it anywhere else.
I really haven't.
Adam Griebel (19:11):
I haven't heard I thought they had other chapters.
Laura Griebel (19:14):
Well, there were there was certainly a
continuation after we after wehad Madeline, we had to kind of
stop.
We just didn't have thecapacity to continue on.
And there were more versions ofit.
Adam Griebel (19:24):
Well, it maybe, maybe, and is it just as
impactful for them?
That's
Laura Griebel (19:28):
I would imagine it was.
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (19:30):
Yeah.
I'm glad that y'all continuelike over the decades to do
great work in these disabilitycommunities.
And I'm glad that this workhelps you all get into community
in the ways that you want to,because of course, spending time
alone is perfectly fine as longas you're happy while you're
alone.
I appreciate you two in doingthat work to help other people
(19:55):
find community as well.
Like your work on this podcast,Adam.
We very much appreciate it.
Adam Griebel (20:00):
Thank you Kurt for letting me serve.
Kurt Wilkinson (20:03):
Now let's hear Adam's stories
Lotus Blossom.
Adam Griebel (20:09):
When I was 28, I lived on South Lamar.
I had a girlfriend whenever Icould.
I smoked a bunch of pot anddrank bath beer.
I was a little pudgy.
I had long dark hair that Ilove chicks to run their fingers
through.
I spent a lot of time naked inBarton Creek by myself.
(20:29):
I hope for better pot, moregirls, with big boobs.
I listened to a lot of reggae.
Bob Marley.
I was just about to discoverreligion.
I was 28, living inSouth Austin in some cheap
housing, owned by a companywhose CEO was a friend of mine
and my father's.
(20:50):
I enjoyed it a lot.
Consuming mind-alteringsubstances, mainly pot and some
alcohol.
Cheeba is what I like the most,you know.
Smoke, ganja, boo, doobic, MaryJane, MJ, marijuana, and any
one of a number of other names.
(21:11):
I was hanging out with my mainman Simon.
We were passing the chalice,talking about spirituality, and
he said to me in a raspy voice,Hey man, Krishna's cool.
Don't you like Hare Krishna?
That was it.
I went to Half Price Books onthe Drag, bought a copy of the
(21:33):
science of self-realization byhis divine grace, AC,
Bhaktivedanta, Swami Prabhupada.
That was it.
It was all over.
I sought out a spiritual masterwho lived on 31st in Medical
Parkway.
I went to his holy Dahrma andoffered respectful obeisance as
(21:53):
per instruction by the book Ihad bought.
Guree Pudni, the spiritualmaster's wife, said I should cut
my hair short to look nice and neat like gentlemen.
So I cut my hair.
I no longer resembled Fabio.
When I cut it, I looked likeMike Meyers.
Krishna. Bhagavan. Madhava. Giridhara.
(22:15):
These are a few of the millionsof days of God.
In the morning on the 11th dayof November 1989, my buddies and
I were all partying without asingle thought of the frailty of
these mortal lives we were allparticipating in.
At approximately 3:30 a.m., Weentered the intersection of 6th
and Lamar through a flashingyellow light, only to be
(22:38):
broadsided by a speeding carwith no consideration of a
flashing red, west bound on 6th.
Things started to make senseagain about the 30th of January
1990.
Now I'm going on 35 yearspost head-injury.
I realize that our mortal livesare tottering like dew drops on
(22:59):
the petals of a lotus blossom.
Kurt Wilkinson (23:02):
So in a lot of your stories, Adam, you have
discussed how finding andpracticing your religion for now
many decades, uh, it's givenyou a certain perspective on
pleasure seeking andresponsibility that seems to
have made you grow as a person.
(23:24):
Is there anything morespecifically you want to talk
about with that?
Adam Griebel (23:27):
It it leads me to understand that we put too much
emphasis on that.
Pleasure that we have on thisin this material world is not
real.
Kurt Wilkinson (23:40):
Yeah, a lot of people go through their lives
trying to figure out like whatdo they like and what's like
happiness.
And so when we talk aboutpleasure versus like something
more long-term, like happiness,there is kind of like there's
there's the separation there.
And for some people, that lineis blurred.
(24:02):
And so for those who are maybelooking at this not necessarily
from a religious perspective,what do you think is the main
difference there between like acarnal short pleasure versus
like long-term fulfillment andhappiness?
Adam Griebel (24:19):
A carnal it's like it's like a sneeze.
I mean, and then it's over.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:26):
Yeah, it might feel good for a short amount of
time, but then you gotta mess.
Adam Griebel (24:31):
Exactly.
For lack of a better word, yes.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:36):
So if pleasure is like a sneeze, then what do
you think we should be doingmaybe a little bit less
sneezing?
And then what do you think weshould be doing more of?
Adam Griebel (24:45):
Serving.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:46):
Serving.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Adam Griebel (24:49):
Help those that can't.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:50):
Serving to help those that can't.
That's very good.
Because I think if you'rethinking about this from a
non-religious perspective, Ithink a lot of people think that
like you have to look at at ahigher power.
And that higher power may notnecessarily have to be some sort
of God, but I think it can alsobe the other people around us.
(25:12):
And that higher power, I think,I think it can be God.
And I think it's wonderful thatgoing through Krishna and
finding that growth in you, Ithink that's very good.
And that's something that a lotof people struggle.
A lot of us are isolating andkind of focusing on those
pleasures.
(25:33):
So maybe a little bit lesssneezing and a little bit more
serving for either those aboveus or those alongside us on the
same axes.
You think that we'd be a betterworld?
Adam Griebel (25:46):
Sounds great.
Kurt Wilkinson (25:48):
Sounds great.
That's awesome.
Laura Griebel (25:50):
To continue a little bit of Adam's spiritual
and religious journey, whenMadeline was in second grade,
Adam elected to become Catholic.
Adam Griebel (25:59):
Oh, sure.
Laura Griebel (26:02):
And I think exactly what Adam just said is
our daughter went to a Catholicschool and we attended Mass in
the parish where I grew up.
And what you would tell me,Adam, is what you loved about it
wasn't so much the religion or
Adam Griebel (26:20):
The dogma.
Laura Griebel (26:22):
Yeah, you didn't like the dogma, you didn't like
that, but you liked thecommunity that it offered.
The community where Madelinewent to school and we went to
worship and the people we got toknow and how evident it became
that this was a community ofpeople that served one another.
And that really that reallyspoke to you.
(26:42):
And you you wanted to be a partof it.
And just like with the HareKrishna movement, you were drawn
to the rituals.
The same in the CatholicChurch.
The rituals are beautiful.
I I love how it doesn't have tobe God, it can be community.
It's the stories that we telland the rituals that we repeat,
(27:06):
you know, whether it's holidayrituals, family rituals,
friendship rituals, whateverthat is, service that every year
we go feed people who arehomeless at Thanksgiving or
whatever that service lookslike.
That that's what's drawn you tospirituality is that baseline
of service, regardless of thethe religion.
(27:27):
Would that be an accurate?
Adam Griebel (27:29):
I can I can I can I can agree with that.
Kurt Wilkinson (27:32):
Yeah, so I am I am curious about your personal
spiritual journey, Adam.
So when you were writing this,Hare Krishna was relatively new
to you, and since then you'vehad some experiences with
Catholicism.
Since then, have there beenspiritual developments?
How do you see yourselfspiritually in this current
(27:52):
moment?
Adam Griebel (27:53):
Once you once you learn spirituality, once you God
is absolute, and and then likeI said before, he's got four
million eight hundred thousandforms, and that's just in this
universe. Not to mention across the entire cosmos.
Which is infathomable,fathomable, you know what I mean.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:17):
Unfathomable.
Yeah that's right. Where was I going with that?
It seems like you can't fathom it.
Adam Griebel (28:27):
Many forms, many names.
Four million eight hundredthousand different names.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:32):
So God has many, many forms and is all across
the universe and is quiteunfathomable.
Adam Griebel (28:38):
That's I see your great.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:40):
So Hare Krishna is an aspect of your
spirituality, and you would saythat you take your aspects of
spirituality from many places.
Adam Griebel (28:48):
Indeed.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:49):
That's great.
What a wonderful perspective.
I love that.
Thank you for listening to thethird season of the True Tales
by Disability Advocates Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, ohplease share it with your
friends and talk about us onsocial media.
If you'd like to let us knowwhat you think of the podcast,
consider leaving us a review onsocial media or on your favorite
(29:13):
podcast platform.
Don't forget to follow us onFacebook, Instagram, and
LinkedIn.
Goodbye, everybody, and have awonderful day.
Kamand Alaghehband (29:27):
All episodes of the True Tales by Disability
Advocates are free on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, and anywhere
you get your podcasts.
John Beer (29:36):
The program is funded in part by a grant of the Texas
State Independent LivingCouncil, the Administration for
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Kristen Gooch (29:46):
To learn more about the Speaking Advocates
program, sign up for ournewsletter at artsparktx.org.
That's A R T S P A R K T X dotO R G.
Welcome to True Tales by Disability Advocates
Podcast.
Authentic voices of peoplethriving with disabilities,
where individuals use the art ofstorytelling to change the
world.
John Beer (00:22):
The True Tales by Disability Advocates Podcast is
produced by ArtSpark Texas,Speaking Advocates Program.
The free virtual training isopen to people of all
disabilities, no matter whereyou live.
Keep listening to hear how life's challenges can spark a desire to speak out and advocate for yourself and others.
Kurt Wilkinson (00:50):
Hello, you're listening to the True Tales by
Disability Advocates Podcast.
Changing the world one story ata time.
This is the show whereadvocates harness the power of
storytelling to build communitywith their peers and develop
empathy in others.
Hello, everyone.
(01:10):
I'm Kurt Wilkinson.
Jennifer McKinney (01:13):
I'm Jennifer McKinney.
Adam Griebel (01:14):
I'm Adam Griebel.
John Beer (01:16):
I'm John Beer.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:17):
And we are your hosts for season three.
We love to welcome Adam andLaura Griebel to the podcast.
Laura Griebel (01:33):
Thank you.
Kurt Wilkinson (01:34):
Thank you very much.
You have heard Adam on thispodcast many times before, but
we are very glad to hear Adam'sTrue Tales today, and Laura's
True Tales today as well.
But you both wrote thesestories quite a few years ago.
You all wrote these for actuallives back at around 2000,
(01:58):
right?
Laura Griebel (01:58):
Yes, exactly.
So 25 years old.
Kurt Wilkinson (02:02):
25 years ago.
So these these are 25-year-oldstories that in some aspects,
I'm sure your lives aredifferent, but there's a lot of
ways that it stays the same.
This these stories are stillvery relevant to your lives
today, and very relevant tohopefully a lot of the people
(02:22):
listening to this podcast.
And since these stories werewritten, you both now have a
daughter.
So how's that journey for youall?
Adam Griebel (02:31):
Wow.
It's unbelievable, Kurt.
Laura Griebel (02:35):
It's really fun.
So our daughter is off atcollege.
So just this is her first yearaway.
She's in another state, manymiles away.
And
Adam Griebel (02:44):
Many.
Laura Griebel (02:45):
The room that we're sitting in right now is
kind of our third bedroom thatwe had turned into an office.
And she and I, we we have twodesks, and we used to work in
here and do stuff together.
And after she left, I kind ofcleaned out the office.
As I was doing so, I cameacross our actual lives file,
and it has some writing in itthat I had actually never seen
before of Adams.
(03:06):
And one of which is thisreally, really beautiful uh
story that Adam wrote aboutbeing a dad.
Adam Griebel (03:16):
Being a toddler dad, though.
Laura Griebel (03:18):
Being a toddler, yeah.
So this would have been so thedate on this story is October
31, 2010.
So 15 years ago, which meansMadeline would have been about
four.
And it's just a beautiful piecethat I had never seen before.
And I was reading it and I wasjust blown away.
Madeline will be coming homefor Thanksgiving this month, and
(03:41):
I can't wait to show it to her.
I think it's going to beincredibly powerful for her to
read this story that Adam wrote15 years ago about what it was
like to be her dad.
Adam Griebel (03:54):
She'd wish for that.
Kurt Wilkinson (03:57):
Yeah, it's awesome that you two live lives
to where every day is kind ofits own story and how things can
update and lots of thingschange, yet lots of things stay
the same.
The story is interesting.
I'd I'd love maybe on a futureepisode of the podcast, Adam
could bring out some of thesestories.
Laura Griebel (04:18):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (04:19):
But now you've been you've been raising this
daughter for uh about 20 yearsnow, and she's going off to
college.
That's gotta be stressful insome ways for you all, but I'm
sure you're proud parents.
Laura Griebel (04:30):
We are proud parents, and it has been quite
the journey every day, Kurt.
I'll share a little bit.
And Adam wrote about this inhis piece when we were at the
hospital to have her, we had ascheduled C-section.
So we got checked into thehospital the night before.
And it was December.
Her birthday's December 7th.
Adam had left to go get usdinner and came back, and he
couldn't quite remember whereour room was and had
(04:52):
accidentally walked into anotherperson's room.
And we asked the the
Adam Griebel (04:57):
I do things like that often.
Laura Griebel (04:59):
We asked the nursing staff.
We're like, could you put ourname on the door?
And they're like, No, we can't,HIPPA.
I said, Can you put a Christmasornament or something?
It's Chris, can you just dosomething?
Well, that triggered one of ournight nurses to determine that
they weren't sure if we wereequipped to take our daughter
home.
And the next thing we knew,social services is in our room
to do a deep dive into how didwe think we were gonna care for
(05:23):
this baby?
And you know, early on it was Iwas terrified.
I was like, oh my God, they'rethey're not gonna let us take
her home.
I didn't know what they werethinking, you know.
And we had we had madearrangements.
We had Adam and I both workedat the time, we were both
working at Goodwill, and uh wehad arranged for a nanny to be
at the house.
But they were like, okay, butwhat about at night?
And we're like, well, we'regonna care for her, we're gonna
(05:44):
do everything we need to do.
But and yeah, it it was just itwas I never out of all the
preparation that we did forhaving a baby, that never
crossed my mind that that was aconversation I needed to be
prepared for.
And it was frightening and itwas wrong and it was scary.
(06:05):
And but I was telling someonethe story the other day, and
they're like, You need to gobring a picture of Madeline and
show them how wonderful she'sdoing, and da-da-da-da-da.
And that's not to say that it'syou know been a joyful, easy
every day, but I don't thinkit's been any different than any
other parental experience, tobe honest with you, unique to
(06:26):
us, but
yeah, well, that is anextremely powerful and unique
experience that I think isspecific to the disability
community, and that brings me toyour story floaters, Laura.
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (06:44):
Because I think that that is another very big
example of how as people withdisabilities, people often make
assumptions about us and put usin situations where we have to
prove them wrong in order to betreated right.
Laura Griebel (07:03):
Yep.
Kurt Wilkinson (07:03):
S o let's hear Laura Griebel read her story,
Floaters.
Laura Griebel (07:08):
One thing that surprises people about me is
that I'm a pretty good swimmer.
You see, I was born inMinnesota, land of 10,000 lakes,
and my family had a cabin.
It was necessary that I learnedto swim at an early age.
When it came time for my firstsummer attending Texas Lions
Camp for crippled children, andthe camp counselors needed to
(07:28):
determine which group ofswimmers I would be with, I was
confident I would be in the deepend with the more able-bodied
campers.
The counselors had us all swimseveral laps while they watched.
Now, mind you, by saying that Iwas a pretty good swimmer, I
meant I was comfortable in thewater.
I didn't tire easily, and Ireally enjoyed swimming.
(07:49):
I didn't say anything aboutspeed, form, or that I didn't
actually sometimes look like Iwas drowning to an observer who
had never seen me swim.
While I was swimming my laps, Iswam into the wall, and for
some reason that upset them.
You can imagine my dismay whenthe counselors assigned me to
the shallow end with thefloaters.
(08:09):
The floaters were the campersthat couldn't swim, stayed in
the shallowest end of the pool,and some even had to wear life
jackets while in the water.
I did not belong there, and thecounselors soon realized the
grave error they had made.
I was quickly reassigned to thedeep end where I belonged.
I never did accomplish thelife-saving skill of tying a
(08:30):
pair of blue jeans together tomake a floating device, but that
didn't matter.
I got to spend my time in thedeep end, proving my ability to
tread water for as many minutesas the swim teachers required,
and they no longer cared that Inever mastered the art of
swimming in a straight line.
Kurt Wilkinson (08:48):
You and I both have lived with disabilities,
and we are both quite obviouslydisabled.
So, as people who have lots ofexperience doing that, do you
personally think that that getseasier over time or harder?
Laura Griebel (09:02):
I think it gets easier because the older I get,
the more I just don't care whatother people think, in all
honesty.
You know, and and my otherstories, obviously, you know,
when you're young and trying tohave friends and boyfriends and
girlfriends and things, you carea lot more.
But as a woman in my mid-50s, II don't really care much about
(09:23):
that at all.
You know, that story from TexasLions Camp is pretty
interesting because keep inmind, Texas Lions Camp is a camp
for kids with physicaldisabilities.
So theoretically, these campcounselors were were supposed to
be a little bit better trainedand things like that.
So it was no, I never took itas a you're horrible that you
made these assumptions about me.
(09:44):
I to this day believe it wasbecause they wanted me safe and
all that kind of stuff.
And I just remember when wewere writing these stories back
in the summer of 2000, theworkshop was so wonderful in how
they kind of got us to juststart thinking about our
experiences and our stories.
And for some reason that onepopped out.
(10:04):
And I was like, How dare youthink I need to be in such a
shallow end?
You know, I grew up, like Isaid, in Minnesota.
I also, and then when we movedto Texas, I grew up next door.
My very best friend had a poolin her backyard and I was over
there all the time swimming.
I love to swim.
So when it came on to go tocamp, I was just like, What do
you mean?
(10:24):
I want to say that Texas LionsCamp was one of the best
experiences that I've ever had.
I spent six summers there, andit was the first and frankly
only time, maybe with theexception of actual lives, that
I was not in the minority.
Every single camper there had aphysical disability, and it was
(10:47):
the most empowering experiencefor me, and even more so for a
lot of other kids whose parentsmaybe didn't expect them to
thrive and didn't expect them tohave independence and didn't
expect.
I tell people all the time,parents would come out, and it
was a two-week camp.
It wasn't just a weekend, itwas a two-week camp.
(11:08):
14 nights away.
When these parents would showup, they were blown away because
we all had to have chores.
We all cleaned the toilets,swept the floors, made the beds.
It didn't matter what yourdisability was, you had a chore.
And these parents would comeback and just be blown away with
what their sons and daughterscould do.
And it was just that empoweringwe're all here.
(11:30):
So it was a great place.
Adam Griebel (11:32):
Do they still have those?
Laura Griebel (11:33):
Texas Lions camp?
Yeah, it's still very muchoperating.
Kurt Wilkinson (11:36):
Yeah, there are multiple camps in Texas that are
for people with disabilities.
It can be quite surprising thatyou can see that kind of
prejudice uh and assumptionsabout uh what people can and
can't do even in disabilityspaces.
Laura Griebel (11:54):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (11:55):
But I think a lot of that is inherent to kind
of the human experience andsimilar things to lead that lead
to prejudices outside of thosespaces.
I've experienced similar thingsat the pool at Camp Camp.
You know, all these places theyhave their systems to try their
very best to make thingsaccessible.
But in reality, disability is avery personal experience.
(12:17):
And what somebody can and can'tdo is really up to them.
Laura Griebel (12:20):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (12:20):
And it can be extremely tempting, especially
for organizations that deal witha lot of people, to put people
into boxes or have a very simpletest to put people into boxes
so that way things can be doneeasier and faster.
But a lot of ways, just askingsomeone personally, what can you
do, what can't you do, what doyou think you can do and can't
(12:43):
do is so so helpful.
Laura Griebel (12:45):
Yeah, it's so powerful.
You know, I tell people all thetime, there's a lot I can do,
there's some things I can't do.
I just just ask.
Adam Griebel (12:52):
That's what I'm here for.
Laura Griebel (12:53):
That's what he's here for.
Well, we help each other.
You know, we do we tell peoplea lot that we we make such a
perfect pair because where Ineed for help and some physical
things, and Adam from a morewould you say cognitive or
Adam Griebel (13:07):
Psychobabble.
Laura Grieb (13:09):
Psychobabble, yeah.
So we make we make a prettybeautiful pair in that way.
Kurt Wilkinson (13:15):
Yeah.
In living with a disability, itis a lot of having to explain
to people what your needs are,and it's a lot of having to say
the same thing over and overagain.
And so it's extremely nice tohave a relationship where you
two understand each other'sneeds on a more internal level,
and so you all can help eachother out without having to
(13:38):
explain, and it works out, andthat is part of the beauty of
it.
Laura Griebel (13:42):
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (13:42):
Let's all experience some of that beauty
by hearing Adam and LauraGriebel read together Lonely No
More.
Laura Griebel (13:52):
I spent so many years of my adult life alone.
I don't mean without friendsand family, I mean single,
mateless.
Many dateless Friday andSaturday nights.
Many.
Adam Griebel (14:03):
I have trouble organizing my time.
I can't keep a job.
I work for three months, 40hours a week.
I work four ten-hour days so Icould take three-day weekends.
I just wanted to have fun.
Laura Griebel (14:16):
I remember a time when I would cry uncontrollably
with an overwhelming feelingthat I would be alone forever.
Adam Griebel (14:24):
I watered plants out in the hot central Texas
sun.
I was fired because I failed tokeep the plants alive.
Laura Griebel (14:37):
Then there became a period of time when I worked
through these feelings by doinga lot of getting to know myself.
I learned that it could be funto stay home and read a book on
a Friday night.
Adam Griebel (14:51):
Me. The plants. We all have our mortal lives to
live.
Laura Griebel (14:54):
I remember my friends, my friends who were
together with someone sayingthat love would come when I
least expected it.
Well, as a 27, 28, or30-year-old single woman, when
would I not be expecting love?
Adam Griebel (15:08):
I always wanted a beautiful, buxom babe.
They really got my attention.
I wanted sex.
And every now and then, I evengot it.
Laura Griebel (15:20):
You see, mine is an affectionate soul.
I love to be touched, hugged,and held.
I really love to be held.
Adam Griebel (15:29):
And then I learned that the pigeons, the monkeys,
they can have sex like threetimes in the hour.
Pigs, and they can haveoffspring twice in a year, and
each time up to a dozen piglets.
We can hardly compete.
There had to be more than justsex.
Laura Griebel (15:51):
And then came Adam.
Adam Griebel (15:55):
And then came Laura.
Kurt Wilkinson (15:58):
In a lot of the stories that you all have
written, like in Lonely No Moreand the Together version with
you and Adam, there's a lot ofstruggles about finding romance
and community and your ownself-confidence due to
disability, which I think is atheme that is very present in a
(16:20):
lot of people with disabilities.
Post your relationship and youtwo finding each other, have you
found that you both nowgravitate more towards
community?
Adam Griebel (16:30):
Other people with disabilities?
Kurt Wilkinson (16:31):
Yeah, the disability community.
Adam Griebel (16:33):
More, more so, yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (16:35):
Yeah.
Because a lot of like Lonely NoMore was talking about like
Laura in her late 20s and early30s.
You really like to be alone.
So do you think that's kind ofchanged now, decades later?
Laura Griebel (16:46):
Um, no, I still like to be alone.
Truly, what I think hashappened is that our community
of friends with disabilitiesbecame very important to us
after actual lives, throughactual lives and following
actual lives.
Both of us have actually alwaysworked within disability
(17:07):
services.
And so our work has alsobrought us into these
communities, but it was such anincredibly powerful experience.
The five years that we werepart of actual lives, especially
that first year.
The writing workshop, I mean,
Yeah, Chris.
I gotta say, well, we had a girl who had
fibromyalgia.
(17:28):
I didn't, I'd never heard offibromyalgia before in the year
2000.
I didn't have a clue what thatmeant.
This is someone who presentedas completely able-bodied, and I
had no idea what it meant forher.
We had all these differentpeople, older, younger.
It was such a learningexperience.
(17:50):
For me, having a congenitaldisability, having lived with a
disability all my life.
Yeah, it was it was just soincredible.
And and for me, it was sobeautiful and we loved it so
much.
I mean, we would meet everySunday at the age building.
I would look forward to that.
I was so excited.
We'd meet, I think, from likeone to four every Sunday or
something.
(18:10):
And I just I loved it.
We we got to know those folksso well.
And then we had Madeline, andwe got to be on the Gene and
Dave show once with Madeline.
They came to the house andinterviewed us, and it was a
beautiful way for Madeline tohave people with disabilities in
her life because they'refriends of ours, not because,
(18:32):
you know, we're doing somethingspecial around disability.
We just happen to have thesefriends who happen to have
disabilities.
And to this day, she'll likerun into some friends of ours or
whatever and be like, hey, Isaw Nancy and Renee.
It'd be great.
So I think that again, eventhough we both have disabilities
and worked within disabilityservices, that artistic
(18:53):
environment and that very realand and frankly raw writing of
disability as adults, talkingabout sex and all the other
things that we would talk aboutwas so unique.
And and honestly, I've neverseen it anywhere else.
I really haven't.
Adam Griebel (19:11):
I haven't heard I thought they had other chapters.
Laura Griebel (19:14):
Well, there were there was certainly a
continuation after we after wehad Madeline, we had to kind of
stop.
We just didn't have thecapacity to continue on.
And there were more versions ofit.
Adam Griebel (19:24):
Well, it maybe, maybe, and is it just as
impactful for them?
That's
Laura Griebel (19:28):
I would imagine it was.
Yeah.
Kurt Wilkinson (19:30):
Yeah.
I'm glad that y'all continuelike over the decades to do
great work in these disabilitycommunities.
And I'm glad that this workhelps you all get into community
in the ways that you want to,because of course, spending time
alone is perfectly fine as longas you're happy while you're
alone.
I appreciate you two in doingthat work to help other people
(19:55):
find community as well.
Like your work on this podcast,Adam.
We very much appreciate it.
Adam Griebel (20:00):
Thank you Kurt for letting me serve.
Kurt Wilkinson (20:03):
Now let's hear Adam's stories
Lotus Blossom.
Adam Griebel (20:09):
When I was 28, I lived on South Lamar.
I had a girlfriend whenever Icould.
I smoked a bunch of pot anddrank bath beer.
I was a little pudgy.
I had long dark hair that Ilove chicks to run their fingers
through.
I spent a lot of time naked inBarton Creek by myself.
(20:29):
I hope for better pot, moregirls, with big boobs.
I listened to a lot of reggae.
Bob Marley.
I was just about to discoverreligion.
I was 28, living inSouth Austin in some cheap
housing, owned by a companywhose CEO was a friend of mine
and my father's.
(20:50):
I enjoyed it a lot.
Consuming mind-alteringsubstances, mainly pot and some
alcohol.
Cheeba is what I like the most,you know.
Smoke, ganja, boo, doobic, MaryJane, MJ, marijuana, and any
one of a number of other names.
(21:11):
I was hanging out with my mainman Simon.
We were passing the chalice,talking about spirituality, and
he said to me in a raspy voice,Hey man, Krishna's cool.
Don't you like Hare Krishna?
That was it.
I went to Half Price Books onthe Drag, bought a copy of the
(21:33):
science of self-realization byhis divine grace, AC,
Bhaktivedanta, Swami Prabhupada.
That was it.
It was all over.
I sought out a spiritual masterwho lived on 31st in Medical
Parkway.
I went to his holy Dahrma andoffered respectful obeisance as
(21:53):
per instruction by the book Ihad bought.
Guree Pudni, the spiritualmaster's wife, said I should cut
my hair short to look nice and neat like gentlemen.
So I cut my hair.
I no longer resembled Fabio.
When I cut it, I looked likeMike Meyers.
Krishna. Bhagavan. Madhava. Giridhara.
(22:15):
These are a few of the millionsof days of God.
In the morning on the 11th dayof November 1989, my buddies and
I were all partying without asingle thought of the frailty of
these mortal lives we were allparticipating in.
At approximately 3:30 a.m., Weentered the intersection of 6th
and Lamar through a flashingyellow light, only to be
(22:38):
broadsided by a speeding carwith no consideration of a
flashing red, west bound on 6th.
Things started to make senseagain about the 30th of January
1990.
Now I'm going on 35 yearspost head-injury.
I realize that our mortal livesare tottering like dew drops on
(22:59):
the petals of a lotus blossom.
Kurt Wilkinson (23:02):
So in a lot of your stories, Adam, you have
discussed how finding andpracticing your religion for now
many decades, uh, it's givenyou a certain perspective on
pleasure seeking andresponsibility that seems to
have made you grow as a person.
(23:24):
Is there anything morespecifically you want to talk
about with that?
Adam Griebel (23:27):
It it leads me to understand that we put too much
emphasis on that.
Pleasure that we have on thisin this material world is not
real.
Kurt Wilkinson (23:40):
Yeah, a lot of people go through their lives
trying to figure out like whatdo they like and what's like
happiness.
And so when we talk aboutpleasure versus like something
more long-term, like happiness,there is kind of like there's
there's the separation there.
And for some people, that lineis blurred.
(24:02):
And so for those who are maybelooking at this not necessarily
from a religious perspective,what do you think is the main
difference there between like acarnal short pleasure versus
like long-term fulfillment andhappiness?
Adam Griebel (24:19):
A carnal it's like it's like a sneeze.
I mean, and then it's over.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:26):
Yeah, it might feel good for a short amount of
time, but then you gotta mess.
Adam Griebel (24:31):
Exactly.
For lack of a better word, yes.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:36):
So if pleasure is like a sneeze, then what do
you think we should be doingmaybe a little bit less
sneezing?
And then what do you think weshould be doing more of?
Adam Griebel (24:45):
Serving.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:46):
Serving.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Adam Griebel (24:49):
Help those that can't.
Kurt Wilkinson (24:50):
Serving to help those that can't.
That's very good.
Because I think if you'rethinking about this from a
non-religious perspective, Ithink a lot of people think that
like you have to look at at ahigher power.
And that higher power may notnecessarily have to be some sort
of God, but I think it can alsobe the other people around us.
(25:12):
And that higher power, I think,I think it can be God.
And I think it's wonderful thatgoing through Krishna and
finding that growth in you, Ithink that's very good.
And that's something that a lotof people struggle.
A lot of us are isolating andkind of focusing on those
pleasures.
(25:33):
So maybe a little bit lesssneezing and a little bit more
serving for either those aboveus or those alongside us on the
same axes.
You think that we'd be a betterworld?
Adam Griebel (25:46):
Sounds great.
Kurt Wilkinson (25:48):
Sounds great.
That's awesome.
Laura Griebel (25:50):
To continue a little bit of Adam's spiritual
and religious journey, whenMadeline was in second grade,
Adam elected to become Catholic.
Adam Griebel (25:59):
Oh, sure.
Laura Griebel (26:02):
And I think exactly what Adam just said is
our daughter went to a Catholicschool and we attended Mass in
the parish where I grew up.
And what you would tell me,Adam, is what you loved about it
wasn't so much the religion or
Adam Griebel (26:20):
The dogma.
Laura Griebel (26:22):
Yeah, you didn't like the dogma, you didn't like
that, but you liked thecommunity that it offered.
The community where Madelinewent to school and we went to
worship and the people we got toknow and how evident it became
that this was a community ofpeople that served one another.
And that really that reallyspoke to you.
(26:42):
And you you wanted to be a partof it.
And just like with the HareKrishna movement, you were drawn
to the rituals.
The same in the CatholicChurch.
The rituals are beautiful.
I I love how it doesn't have tobe God, it can be community.
It's the stories that we telland the rituals that we repeat,
(27:06):
you know, whether it's holidayrituals, family rituals,
friendship rituals, whateverthat is, service that every year
we go feed people who arehomeless at Thanksgiving or
whatever that service lookslike.
That that's what's drawn you tospirituality is that baseline
of service, regardless of thethe religion.
(27:27):
Would that be an accurate?
Adam Griebel (27:29):
I can I can I can I can agree with that.
Kurt Wilkinson (27:32):
Yeah, so I am I am curious about your personal
spiritual journey, Adam.
So when you were writing this,Hare Krishna was relatively new
to you, and since then you'vehad some experiences with
Catholicism.
Since then, have there beenspiritual developments?
How do you see yourselfspiritually in this current
(27:52):
moment?
Adam Griebel (27:53):
Once you once you learn spirituality, once you God
is absolute, and and then likeI said before, he's got four
million eight hundred thousandforms, and that's just in this
universe. Not to mention across the entire cosmos.
Which is infathomable,fathomable, you know what I mean.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:17):
Unfathomable.
Yeah that's right. Where was I going with that?
It seems like you can't fathom it.
Adam Griebel (28:27):
Many forms, many names.
Four million eight hundredthousand different names.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:32):
So God has many, many forms and is all across
the universe and is quiteunfathomable.
Adam Griebel (28:38):
That's I see your great.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:40):
So Hare Krishna is an aspect of your
spirituality, and you would saythat you take your aspects of
spirituality from many places.
Adam Griebel (28:48):
Indeed.
Kurt Wilkinson (28:49):
That's great.
What a wonderful perspective.
I love that.
Thank you for listening to thethird season of the True Tales
by Disability Advocates Podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode, ohplease share it with your
friends and talk about us onsocial media.
If you'd like to let us knowwhat you think of the podcast,
consider leaving us a review onsocial media or on your favorite
(29:13):
podcast platform.
Don't forget to follow us onFacebook, Instagram, and
LinkedIn.
Goodbye, everybody, and have awonderful day.
Kamand Alaghehband (29:27):
All episodes of the True Tales by Disability
Advocates are free on ApplePodcasts, Spotify, and anywhere
you get your podcasts.
John Beer (29:36):
The program is funded in part by a grant of the Texas
State Independent LivingCouncil, the Administration for
Community Living, andindividuals like you.
Kristen Gooch (29:46):
To learn more about the Speaking Advocates
program, sign up for ournewsletter at artsparktx.org.
That's A R T S P A R K T X dotO R G.
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