February 3, 2026 • 27 mins
Brooke Champagne, award winning author of Nola Face: A Latina’s Life in the Big Easy, joins Unapologetically Creative for a conversation about writing from the most personal places and finding humor inside life’s contradictions. Growing up biracial in New Orleans shaped her voice, teaching her to hold darkness and joy in the same frame and to explore the complicated emotions that drive honest storytelling.
Brooke reflects on the risks of telling intimate family stories, the power of vulnerability on the page, and why writers must abandon people pleasing in pursuit of truth. She also shares how teaching and mentoring emerging writers reinforces her belief that, even in the age of AI, human storytelling…our need for that in order to survive is not going away.
This episode is a thoughtful look at identity, resilience, creative courage, and the responsibility artists have to document the world around them while inspiring others to make art of their own.
1:41 — Identity, Language, and Growing Up Biracial
4:18 — Writing the Hard Stuff
4:57 — The Philosophy of “Bugginess”
7:22 — Humor as Survival
9:25 — Abandoning People Pleasing to Tell the Truth
11:26 — Writing Risky, Intimate Stories
13:20 — When Family Reads Your Work
16:02 — How New Orleans Shapes Her Voice
17:18 — Editing, Deep Reading, and Literary Context
19:48 — Teaching Writers in the Age of AI
21:39 — Why Writers Must Keep Going
23:54 — What It Means to Be Unapologetically Creative
25:13 — Advice to Her Younger Self
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
In like the the age of AI, humanstorytelling like our our need
for that in order to survive is not going away.
Welcome to Unapologetically Created, a podcast from the
Vermont College of Fine Arts, where we celebrate bold
(00:25):
artistry, transformative creativity, and the audacious
voices shaping the future of thearts.
I'm your host Andrew Ram Sammy, and in this series we dive into
honest, inspiring conversations with artists who are pushing
boundaries and redefining what it means to create work that
(00:46):
resonates and endures. Brooke Champagne, an
award-winning author of NOLA Face a Latina's Life in the Big
Easy, named a best book of 2024 by Kirkus Reviews, which praised
her work for being unsparing, funny and deeply empathetic.
Her non fiction blends memory, identity, humor, and what she
(01:10):
calls bugginess, a way to hold darkness and joy in the same
frame. In this conversation, we'll talk
about growing up biracial in NewOrleans, writing from
complicated family histories, the role of humor in surviving
pain, the risk of telling intimate stories, what it means
to remain unapologetically creative in a moment when
(01:31):
storytelling feels more necessary.
Than ever. Brooke, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.Your work has traced a lot of
your journey as being biracial, a New Orleanian, Ecuadorian.
How did that kind of manifest itself into the language that
you use, the place that you bring into your work, your
(01:54):
ancestral identity and especially how it kind of
manifested then into NOLA face? Yeah, I don't know any other way
to be than than how I was raised, which was learning 2
languages concurrently. It's so funny that my so my
Abuela Lala, my maternal grandmother never learned to
speak English and my paternal grandmother as I was learning
(02:19):
Spanish was like, this kid needsto stop learning Spanish because
she's not going to like learn English.
Well, but so I, I don't know anyother way, but I think it's,
it's coming from New Orleans, which I just learned this
recently that the original name of New Orleans, like in the
hundreds and hundreds of years ago was a name that I'm going to
(02:41):
mess up. But it's something like
Bolchanshara, something like that, which is land of many
tongues. Yeah, because Lake
Pontchartrain. Right, right.
So there was just always trade there and people coming from
literally all over the world. So the idea that people were
coming to this place speaking all kinds of languages and
learning how to communicate. When we think of places that
have like strong cultural identities that are kind of
(03:04):
separate from the rest of the world, we think of like New
York. You think of LA, but certainly
New Orleans is one of those places.
And then you take on top of that, you're being a Latina in a
place that typically doesn't identify with.
I know it's weird. Isn't it weird?
It was weird growing up like that, like in I yeah, it wasn't
like we didn't have like a really big community.
(03:25):
My grandmother, like all the Epidorians knew each other, but
there were like 30 of them, right?
And so they had a club called ElClue and that's like that's
where they would go. And it was like a but the but it
yeah, I didn't really feel it was hard because it was like I
didn't feel like there was a place for him.
But as us being bifurcated, I mean, but then it's like already
(03:48):
to talk about this, everyone's bifurcated and we all have like
things that pull us one way and then the other.
That's kind of like what interests me as a writer that
like there's a way that we should feel about something.
But maybe I'm feeling this way and like, and like, how do we
figure out how? Like I don't know how to deal
with these competing feelings. So I think like that's, that's
(04:11):
just what I this is getting far away from your question.
No, not at all. This thing no, you're.
You're you're up on the right path.
What is, what is, what is essaying is what I'm always
thinking about. And I think like my identity is
a place that I started of like, oh, this is a complicated thing.
But then I, I kind of take that frame into everything that like
really what we're facing now nationally, politically, all of
(04:34):
everything. It's not easy, it's complicated.
And so like those are places that I try to go and writing the
hard stuff. You use the term bugginess to
describe your writing style as being alive, unpredictable, and
defined. Sounds like a crawdad.
Was it because of crawdads and that concept?
Has it evolved and why is it essential to your creative
(04:55):
identity? Well, bugginess came out of it
came from my dog who had this like King was Rs Jaylen Shepard
and he was really smart and anxious, but he would like have
this smile. We'd call it we can't, I can't.
This isn't a good reference anymore.
But he had like this little the little Bill Cosby like like nod
(05:18):
and smile like the sort of jello, the like selling you the
jello. And he was like would smile
beautifully, but he was anxious about everything.
And I that was so we would call on buggy and like creep like
kind of connect that idea of like knowing the world is
fucked, but enjoying it anyway, you know, and there's a
(05:38):
Nietzschean like aspect to all this, a more Fadi like just
loving whatever circumstance you're in.
And this became really somethingthat we talked about a lot after
Hurricane Katrina or like, you know, there's this devastation.
There was like empathy fatigue that happened really soon after
that, even from people in the community like that.
That's the thing when there's a tragedy, it's like the in order
(06:01):
to survive it, you have to just like really focus on like not
being down. So the bugginess was just sort
of a like we are all fucked, butwe're fucked together.
And this maybe that's the thing that we can like find some
solace in and like have fun with.
And I think for me, I mean it's just been sort of like a life
philosophy of like when things are difficult, I have to this is
(06:23):
the comedian sensibility that again, I can't do stand up.
But I do have this thing where like when something bad happens
and like where's the joke? Where where's the thing that I
can? This still sucks and is sad and
is like dark and all the things,but like let's what's another
like perspective? So I think it's just like a
prismatic way of just looking atand and by the way, when things
(06:44):
are going great, this is part ofvolume is too like if like
everything is like shiny and beautiful.
I'm like, what, Where's the joke?
Like how can I fuck this up? What, what if something really
bad happened? And so like, I'll bring it down.
So it's either like always like kind of calibrating, bringing
the dark stuff like bringing some light to it and when
(07:04):
there's light, bringing some darkness.
Had was that influenced by your kind of own experience in life?
That there'd be these kind of great moments and then there'd
be these like down moments and then opposite, they'd be these
down moments, and then someone in the family or something would
try to turn it around and bring it back up.
Yes, I definitely think this is some kind of inherited messed up
(07:26):
way of like I I have like a kindof a pessimistic father.
Certainly being Catholic. That's, I mean, that's yeah,
totally. Both my parents were raised
Catholics and they both went to Catholic schools.
And so all, all of that, being able to just be like, this is
also really kind of, and now this is this.
(07:47):
I don't mean to sound glib, but like just not taking your pain
too seriously. I realize the place of
privilege. I'm saying that because you're
currently not in pain, but but just just being like, what is a
way to find AI think just humor and like really, like really,
(08:08):
really dark humor is a way to just kind of write.
And, and I mean, studies have shown, like scientific studies
like this, actually, it helps with healing.
It helps with healing to just belike, let's reframe it, you
know, and, and this comedy is a way of reframing to like bring
joy to others. Like if I have to suffer, I want
you to laugh at. I mean, I think that's what my
book, that's what I'll try to dois like, there's some suffering
(08:29):
here, but I want you to laugh atit.
That's my, that's kind of my goal.
That's always my goal. That's why I love you so much
because you know, especially like you don't even have to say
that you're a Latino before you even walk into the room.
You just know, like, oh, this ishow she processes the world.
You found me and I felt you. Yes.
I felt your presence so immediate because that, I mean,
that was my background, right? Like, immigrant parents always,
(08:51):
you know, the best of times are the worst of times, and the
worst of times are the best of times.
And you're like, how do you livein both those places and spaces
at the same time? And it's like, we're immigrants.
That's what we do. You said it beautifully.
That's it. Right.
So in your work too, you, you play with these things around
humor and vulnerability and poetics, poetic structure.
(09:12):
And, and again, we just kind of talked about it a little bit,
but how do you balance those elements to create emotional and
narrative resonance when perhapsyou could be pushing a bound
that you just may not know how aperson or the audience is going
to respond to it? It's scary.
I, you know, it's like the this podcast is unapologetically,
unapologetically creative and I love that because I want, I
(09:35):
naturally want to apologize for everything.
Like I have this when I'm writing, I'm just like, you
know, it'll all come out. But I also, I mean, I want
people to love me like. And so that question is really
like I sort of but this idea of I was talking to sue about this
this morning, like I am AI am a people pleaser, but that has to
(09:58):
sort of be abandoned when you'retrying to like an essaying in
particular, because it really doesn't matter.
First of all, you won't. The thing I've had to teach
myself is despite being the wonder that I am, I'm joking
audience, despite being just a light, I'm not for everyone and
(10:18):
that's never. And to try to reach that is
false to me. It's not going to be me.
So it's like really just trying to get at the truth of like, how
do I feel about this thing that I'm working and digging and
digging and like there's always the answer that I know will
please the most. And sometimes I'll start there
if like I know I should feel this way about it.
(10:39):
And then I scratch, like, scratch the surface of that and
be like, yeah, but that's not it.
So in a lot of your work, you kind of get really deep and
personal with with scenes that perhaps people might just
consider to be very, very private and confidential, like,
you know, scenes of your grandmother shoplifting or your
father's private moments. How do you take some of those
(11:03):
kind of complex situations that you find yourself in?
And then what draws you to thosekind of risky, intimate
vignettes which we all know happens in life, but yet when
you put it down on paper, you just might go, do I go there?
And especially the dad. I mean, the thing with your dad,
I still to this day and laugh inmy head about that scene.
(11:25):
I'm thinking about audience in the way when I'm writing, I
just, I want to be as clear and connecting to them as like the
imagined audience, whatever thatimagined audience says, which to
me is not. It's sort of like honestly, for
real. It's my husband because he's a
great reader. He's also a poet and a writer.
And so he is kind of the first audience that and I'm just like,
(11:49):
what will make him laugh? What's the most honest?
He knows sort of we're both likebig readers.
Like any like hint of falseness of like try again trying to like
be like I'm safe to the audience.
Like all of that has to go like in my head as I'm as I'm
writing. But what I don't think is that,
oh, this is going to be read by a lot of I'm not thinking about
(12:10):
that as I'm writing ever like that it's ever going to be
something. It's just something that I have
to like create a discreet like Ihave to find the answer to this,
you know, any discreet piece of writing, Like what is the answer
to my feeling about this? What am I trying to say and why
am I trying to say it? Anything that like you
mentioned, like these kind of dark trees moments, it all falls
(12:34):
back on me. Like I think I'm the hardest on
myself because that's how I am in life.
If I'm fighting with my sisters,I might be like righteously,
like they're wrong, Fuck them. But you know what happens in the
quiet times is I'm like, this isyou.
You did this, you did this. And I find This is why no one
can really hurt me because I've already told myself all the all
(12:55):
the horrible things about myself.
So in my essays, and but by the way, I try to make fun of like
my peccadilloes and all the the ways that I can be wrong and
dumb, but that's that that's I'mjust trying to get at like, what
is who, who is this? Who is this that's making this?
And it it changes all the time because we change.
Well, and, and those scenes of especially the, the ones with
(13:16):
your dad, it's, it's, there's truth there.
Yeah, I you know, my dad has read the book and he said, I
don't know if I told you this, but he said that the only there
are several essays when which heappears and only one where he
appears in a compromised, truly compromised form.
But he said that the only issue he had just with the book is
(13:37):
that he's not in it enough. So I mean, he agrees and he sort
of has us like, well, did you need to include all the details?
Like is this so he's sort of like his ass, like do you need
to put in everything? And I think about this like, and
he's joke because he's he gets the right, he kind of gets the
right and he gets what it means to be a writer.
(13:58):
But I've thought about this liketo do what did I always need to
kind of go for like that, that maybe that detail that is way
too embarrassing. But if I put myself out there
and if, and again, I'm not making if there's a detail
that's very comfortable, I did not make that up.
It's it's for real. And I have like people who.
(14:18):
Yeah, no, no, no. And, and for those that are
listening to this, that are going, what are they talking
about? Obviously read the book.
But I, I'll, all I'll say is, isthat my Theo passed away a
couple of weeks ago and a lot ofour family members had to go to
his apartment. He was single by himself and
whatever. And let's just say they
discovered a kind of treasure trove of things.
(14:41):
I, I think I know. I know what you're.
I think any listener would know.Sure, but yeah.
Single guy. Yeah, single guy time alone,
Yes. Is there DVD player?
No, there was photography or Oh,OK, yeah, like photographic
evidence. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Polaroids.
Also, I'm sorry for your loss, but.
(15:04):
I'm to my cousins who discoveredthat, but that's like a that's
like, I mean that would I when Iheard that, I was like, Oh my
gosh, that's a book champagne moment right there.
It's it is. No, that's, that's everything
we've been talking about. That's the bugginess that it was
sort of like, I'm so sorry. Oh, this is a gift.
But we were laughing. I mean, like, we're all laughing
our asses off, right? Like Theo got it going on,
(15:26):
right? Like, good for him.
You know? Fortunately, he couldn't, you
know, literally five days after he retired, he like, died.
It's insane. So that's like the craziness,
right? But at least we knew he had a
good time. That's kind of like New Orleans
in a heart shell. I mean, in a nutshell, right?
Like that's the kind of place where it's like, you know, let
the good times roll and then Hurricane Katrina.
(15:48):
How does New Orleans kind of play into your stories?
And, and we know it certainly does, but the the energy of that
city is so different. The culture is so different, the
the contradictions. How does that inform your kind
of narrative choices? It's it's really everything to
me. This is like it's, it's the
place that I mean will very likely be underwater.
(16:09):
Hope hopefully, like I'll be long gone, but it's I mean it's
coming, it's coming it but it's everything.
I I don't know of any other city.
And I mean that's because I'm from here.
I've been to many other cities, but not experienced just the,
the weird, the so many differentlives or what I think a friend
said this who had lived in New Orleans for about 10 years or
so. She was like, you can like just
(16:30):
walking down the block. You can walk two blocks and
there's like a million differentlives like happening just
there's, there's just. I don't know.
To me, it's like a city that like, in the moment, you want to
live in that moment, but in the aftermath of it, it's the guilt
of like, well, maybe we should have done something.
Yeah, it's a Catholic city. Yeah.
All of a sudden washed away on Sunday.
Exactly. And and then you just start over
(16:52):
again. Yeah, Monday morning.
That's when the corruption starts.
Literally starts all over again.Yeah.
Yeah, but it's it, it doesn't form everything.
I mean, I think it's just it's really for those get there now
'cause it's it. May not be there.
Not going to be there in 20-30 years, I don't know.
So you're now the book reviews editor for River Teeth.
(17:13):
How does engaging with other writers work influence now your
own prose and perspective? So it's been about a year that
I've done this and I think I'm, I'm still learning how to edit,
but it's, it's fun. I think I've always kind of had
it in like the MFA, for instance.
I've always been much clearer onwhat other people like, what
(17:37):
other people need to fix in their work than my own.
So this is like I in a good way,giving me a chance to like to
practice sort of like what's he?As I've read book reviews, I'm
developing my aesthetic. I'm sort of, I'm developing that
and thinking about like what is needed.
Like we review mostly, no exclusively, I would say
(17:59):
independent books and trying to give voice to, you know, to
books that aren't going to get like much media coverage.
So it's like, what what does it take to do that?
It's not sort of like it can be a little bit personal, but not
be all about the author. And the reviews I like most are
the ones who sort of like, yes, it's a review of this book, but
(18:19):
it's also thinking about like what conversation is what other
books and what part of like literary, like contemporary
literary history is this book inconversation with like, what is
the context of this? And, and also like, making
people want to read it. I mean, not that like, book
reviewing is like advertising, but in a way it's sort of like,
what is deep reading? This is what I'm always thinking
(18:40):
about. Like both deep reading, but also
like, the art of making a book review an essay in itself,
again, without being too much about the narrator.
So all of these things, like I'mlearning this, like as I'm
reading these essays and, like, try to push that kind of
aesthetic. And so I guess I mean, in terms
of like helping my writing, yeah, I write one book, a review
(19:02):
a year. So I'm not like, that's not like
necessarily, but I, I, I do think that young writers
starting out need to learn the skill because it's sort of like,
what do you want to do? Like what is what is, what is it
that you want to do? So I'll with reviewers, I want
them to review a book that they're like, OK, I, I, I'm, I
(19:23):
jive with this aesthetic and what are, what are the things
that I want to pull out of that?So I think it's just really
encouraging writers who want to review to to know their art and
to be able to like extrapolate what they can, like the good
stuff on these books that they're reviewing.
So double clicking on that. You're also a professor in an
MFA program. How does that also shape your
(19:44):
understanding of craft and community in creative non
fiction? Well, one thing that it that
it's done truly is that I do have enormous like in like the
the age of AI, you know, I mean,like everyone, we're we're, you
know, I understandably freaking out about that.
But when I read the work of these students, like I just, I
(20:06):
know that human storytelling is like not like our our need for
that in order to survive is not going away.
I have the most talented suit. Like they're it's, it's
wonderful to work with them. And I think it's it's
interesting to sort of be at this.
Stage in my career that I've been writing now for so long,
(20:27):
but only now newly minted as like a professor in a in a
creative writing program and like there's no one path to
this. I think they expect they think
that professorship happens like you get the MFA, then you pump
out that book within three yearsof that MFA and then you become
a professor and I'm like, I got my MFA 20 years ago.
(20:47):
I became a professor last year, right like if by the way, like
not that professorship is the end all be all, but only path.
But sure, they'll you know, IA portion of them do want to do
that and it's like you don't know and we're I'm here to just
support whatever it is that you like you're writing life sure
and give you like the tools as much as I can.
(21:09):
I just, I'm in awe of their talent.
I'm sure there are plenty of folks who come up to you,
especially Latinos, Latinas, whosee your path and your career
and, you know, writing books andediting and being in academia
and all those sort of things. Given everything that's going on
right now in the world, especially the view of
(21:33):
immigrants in this country, whatdo you say to them?
You try maybe frag that is really, really hard.
I, I guess that we need their stories and then just just
straight up like that's now morethan ever.
I know it's very easy to be like, there's no like to feel
(21:55):
that hopelessness. Sure.
And, and, and again, I do recognize that I'm in a
privileged position of like being first of all, like being a
citizen and, you know, having the language and having all the
things that I have. I get it.
But really, I was having a conversation about this earlier
that it feels like this is a time for like just activism and
(22:18):
like going out the and more. And I'm not saying that that's
that is this is a time for that because we like something has
it's it's it's so scary. But if we are writers, it is
also the time to really take that even more seriously than
before. This isn't sort of like a, you
know, in the salad days of Barack Obama, you know, like,
(22:41):
like, oh, it's, it's easy to write because I just know what
my story is. Now.
Your story is more precious thatit needs to be whatever,
whatever that is, if you're writing whatever, whatever
you're writing. So I think I I say to them, I'm
sorry and keep going, particularly writers.
I mean, for that's what I can speak to.
(23:02):
Like writers need to. This is what we were put here
for to like document the time. And I mean, in thinking about my
the the other works that I'm working on next, like it's more
family. You know, one of one of my book
projects is more family stories and stuff.
But all the things that are happening in the culture that
(23:23):
get they, they have to be a partof it.
And so I think just like being awake to what is surrounding us,
but not bugginess, but also being like you have to, you have
to keep going. As a Latina, as a writer, as an
editor and as a teacher, or noneof those things, if you wanted
to remove those things just because I've labeled you that,
(23:46):
that way, what it just what doesit just mean for Brooke
Champagne to be unapologeticallycreative?
Well, I think it's the the elusive thing of being who I am,
that that's always the search for me.
I mean, that's why I write is tofigure that out.
And you know, you think if you're writing, if you're an
(24:08):
essayist like I am and you writethe book and you're like, I
think some people think like, oh, here's the answer.
Here's me. It's in NOLA face.
Before NOLA face was done, I wasalready writing the other book
of like, oh, also here's me. There's so many.
And so I think it's all about figuring out who that person is.
(24:28):
And I think one of the things that that drives me is just, and
I think this is the thing that Igot from Lala, who some, again,
some people have read the book and been like, wow, she was nuts
and she was abusive. And they have like ways of, of
looking at her. But the thing that really is,
has been instilled in me is to love so hard.
(24:50):
And I, I do this with my kids islike just, it's almost like it's
almost too much love for you. It's almost like suffocation,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. If you could go back and speak
to your younger self back in theearly days of of being in in New
Orleans, what encouragement or challenges would you throw to
young the young Champagne? I mean, I think I would tell my
(25:14):
younger self to relax a little bit.
I I, I, I was always really highstrung, but also like having to
hold that in. I wish I could have, I'd tell
myself that like you do have thethings that you need, like
you're actually, your mom was right in this weird way.
Like you are not messing things up.
(25:36):
You're like, you are enough. I mean, I know that's like
bumper sticker type shit. Sure.
Like I think I, I think I neededthat.
I think the younger me needed tobe like, you're safe and it's OK
and like actually you are lovable.
Like all of it, like, you know, but if I did give the younger me
the encouragement, then I would have grown up much more sanely
(25:57):
and then I wouldn't be able to write the way.
So like maybe? Just do you do.
You. Yeah, young Brooke, go fuck
yourself. No advice, no encouragement, no.
No challenge, nothing. Just just live there.
Just the just, just the sheer sight of the Chong Kla would be
enough for her to know. Maybe that's.
(26:19):
It by a voice. Yeah, yeah, right.
How do you hope that your work, your stories kind of uplift and
shape the landscape of cultural belonging and humor and empathy?
And especially now today, with so much of this kind of
craziness that's going on in theworld, what do you hope that
your work could do for for for audiences and communities who
(26:39):
read your work? I that that is so sweet.
I I just a sweet question to think about.
I really hope that it just encourages other people to make
art too. Thanks for listening to
Unapologetically Created. Be sure to follow the show.
And stay tuned for. More insightful conversations in
(27:00):
the episodes ahead to learn moreabout the Vermont College of
Fine Arts. Visit.
Vcfa.edu.
In like the the age of AI, humanstorytelling like our our need
for that in order to survive is not going away.
Welcome to Unapologetically Created, a podcast from the
Vermont College of Fine Arts, where we celebrate bold
(00:25):
artistry, transformative creativity, and the audacious
voices shaping the future of thearts.
I'm your host Andrew Ram Sammy, and in this series we dive into
honest, inspiring conversations with artists who are pushing
boundaries and redefining what it means to create work that
(00:46):
resonates and endures. Brooke Champagne, an
award-winning author of NOLA Face a Latina's Life in the Big
Easy, named a best book of 2024 by Kirkus Reviews, which praised
her work for being unsparing, funny and deeply empathetic.
Her non fiction blends memory, identity, humor, and what she
(01:10):
calls bugginess, a way to hold darkness and joy in the same
frame. In this conversation, we'll talk
about growing up biracial in NewOrleans, writing from
complicated family histories, the role of humor in surviving
pain, the risk of telling intimate stories, what it means
to remain unapologetically creative in a moment when
(01:31):
storytelling feels more necessary.
Than ever. Brooke, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.Your work has traced a lot of
your journey as being biracial, a New Orleanian, Ecuadorian.
How did that kind of manifest itself into the language that
you use, the place that you bring into your work, your
(01:54):
ancestral identity and especially how it kind of
manifested then into NOLA face? Yeah, I don't know any other way
to be than than how I was raised, which was learning 2
languages concurrently. It's so funny that my so my
Abuela Lala, my maternal grandmother never learned to
speak English and my paternal grandmother as I was learning
(02:19):
Spanish was like, this kid needsto stop learning Spanish because
she's not going to like learn English.
Well, but so I, I don't know anyother way, but I think it's,
it's coming from New Orleans, which I just learned this
recently that the original name of New Orleans, like in the
hundreds and hundreds of years ago was a name that I'm going to
(02:41):
mess up. But it's something like
Bolchanshara, something like that, which is land of many
tongues. Yeah, because Lake
Pontchartrain. Right, right.
So there was just always trade there and people coming from
literally all over the world. So the idea that people were
coming to this place speaking all kinds of languages and
learning how to communicate. When we think of places that
have like strong cultural identities that are kind of
(03:04):
separate from the rest of the world, we think of like New
York. You think of LA, but certainly
New Orleans is one of those places.
And then you take on top of that, you're being a Latina in a
place that typically doesn't identify with.
I know it's weird. Isn't it weird?
It was weird growing up like that, like in I yeah, it wasn't
like we didn't have like a really big community.
(03:25):
My grandmother, like all the Epidorians knew each other, but
there were like 30 of them, right?
And so they had a club called ElClue and that's like that's
where they would go. And it was like a but the but it
yeah, I didn't really feel it was hard because it was like I
didn't feel like there was a place for him.
But as us being bifurcated, I mean, but then it's like already
(03:48):
to talk about this, everyone's bifurcated and we all have like
things that pull us one way and then the other.
That's kind of like what interests me as a writer that
like there's a way that we should feel about something.
But maybe I'm feeling this way and like, and like, how do we
figure out how? Like I don't know how to deal
with these competing feelings. So I think like that's, that's
(04:11):
just what I this is getting far away from your question.
No, not at all. This thing no, you're.
You're you're up on the right path.
What is, what is, what is essaying is what I'm always
thinking about. And I think like my identity is
a place that I started of like, oh, this is a complicated thing.
But then I, I kind of take that frame into everything that like
really what we're facing now nationally, politically, all of
(04:34):
everything. It's not easy, it's complicated.
And so like those are places that I try to go and writing the
hard stuff. You use the term bugginess to
describe your writing style as being alive, unpredictable, and
defined. Sounds like a crawdad.
Was it because of crawdads and that concept?
Has it evolved and why is it essential to your creative
(04:55):
identity? Well, bugginess came out of it
came from my dog who had this like King was Rs Jaylen Shepard
and he was really smart and anxious, but he would like have
this smile. We'd call it we can't, I can't.
This isn't a good reference anymore.
But he had like this little the little Bill Cosby like like nod
(05:18):
and smile like the sort of jello, the like selling you the
jello. And he was like would smile
beautifully, but he was anxious about everything.
And I that was so we would call on buggy and like creep like
kind of connect that idea of like knowing the world is
fucked, but enjoying it anyway, you know, and there's a
(05:38):
Nietzschean like aspect to all this, a more Fadi like just
loving whatever circumstance you're in.
And this became really somethingthat we talked about a lot after
Hurricane Katrina or like, you know, there's this devastation.
There was like empathy fatigue that happened really soon after
that, even from people in the community like that.
That's the thing when there's a tragedy, it's like the in order
(06:01):
to survive it, you have to just like really focus on like not
being down. So the bugginess was just sort
of a like we are all fucked, butwe're fucked together.
And this maybe that's the thing that we can like find some
solace in and like have fun with.
And I think for me, I mean it's just been sort of like a life
philosophy of like when things are difficult, I have to this is
(06:23):
the comedian sensibility that again, I can't do stand up.
But I do have this thing where like when something bad happens
and like where's the joke? Where where's the thing that I
can? This still sucks and is sad and
is like dark and all the things,but like let's what's another
like perspective? So I think it's just like a
prismatic way of just looking atand and by the way, when things
(06:44):
are going great, this is part ofvolume is too like if like
everything is like shiny and beautiful.
I'm like, what, Where's the joke?
Like how can I fuck this up? What, what if something really
bad happened? And so like, I'll bring it down.
So it's either like always like kind of calibrating, bringing
the dark stuff like bringing some light to it and when
(07:04):
there's light, bringing some darkness.
Had was that influenced by your kind of own experience in life?
That there'd be these kind of great moments and then there'd
be these like down moments and then opposite, they'd be these
down moments, and then someone in the family or something would
try to turn it around and bring it back up.
Yes, I definitely think this is some kind of inherited messed up
(07:26):
way of like I I have like a kindof a pessimistic father.
Certainly being Catholic. That's, I mean, that's yeah,
totally. Both my parents were raised
Catholics and they both went to Catholic schools.
And so all, all of that, being able to just be like, this is
also really kind of, and now this is this.
(07:47):
I don't mean to sound glib, but like just not taking your pain
too seriously. I realize the place of
privilege. I'm saying that because you're
currently not in pain, but but just just being like, what is a
way to find AI think just humor and like really, like really,
(08:08):
really dark humor is a way to just kind of write.
And, and I mean, studies have shown, like scientific studies
like this, actually, it helps with healing.
It helps with healing to just belike, let's reframe it, you
know, and, and this comedy is a way of reframing to like bring
joy to others. Like if I have to suffer, I want
you to laugh at. I mean, I think that's what my
book, that's what I'll try to dois like, there's some suffering
(08:29):
here, but I want you to laugh atit.
That's my, that's kind of my goal.
That's always my goal. That's why I love you so much
because you know, especially like you don't even have to say
that you're a Latino before you even walk into the room.
You just know, like, oh, this ishow she processes the world.
You found me and I felt you. Yes.
I felt your presence so immediate because that, I mean,
that was my background, right? Like, immigrant parents always,
(08:51):
you know, the best of times are the worst of times, and the
worst of times are the best of times.
And you're like, how do you livein both those places and spaces
at the same time? And it's like, we're immigrants.
That's what we do. You said it beautifully.
That's it. Right.
So in your work too, you, you play with these things around
humor and vulnerability and poetics, poetic structure.
(09:12):
And, and again, we just kind of talked about it a little bit,
but how do you balance those elements to create emotional and
narrative resonance when perhapsyou could be pushing a bound
that you just may not know how aperson or the audience is going
to respond to it? It's scary.
I, you know, it's like the this podcast is unapologetically,
unapologetically creative and I love that because I want, I
(09:35):
naturally want to apologize for everything.
Like I have this when I'm writing, I'm just like, you
know, it'll all come out. But I also, I mean, I want
people to love me like. And so that question is really
like I sort of but this idea of I was talking to sue about this
this morning, like I am AI am a people pleaser, but that has to
(09:58):
sort of be abandoned when you'retrying to like an essaying in
particular, because it really doesn't matter.
First of all, you won't. The thing I've had to teach
myself is despite being the wonder that I am, I'm joking
audience, despite being just a light, I'm not for everyone and
(10:18):
that's never. And to try to reach that is
false to me. It's not going to be me.
So it's like really just trying to get at the truth of like, how
do I feel about this thing that I'm working and digging and
digging and like there's always the answer that I know will
please the most. And sometimes I'll start there
if like I know I should feel this way about it.
(10:39):
And then I scratch, like, scratch the surface of that and
be like, yeah, but that's not it.
So in a lot of your work, you kind of get really deep and
personal with with scenes that perhaps people might just
consider to be very, very private and confidential, like,
you know, scenes of your grandmother shoplifting or your
father's private moments. How do you take some of those
(11:03):
kind of complex situations that you find yourself in?
And then what draws you to thosekind of risky, intimate
vignettes which we all know happens in life, but yet when
you put it down on paper, you just might go, do I go there?
And especially the dad. I mean, the thing with your dad,
I still to this day and laugh inmy head about that scene.
(11:25):
I'm thinking about audience in the way when I'm writing, I
just, I want to be as clear and connecting to them as like the
imagined audience, whatever thatimagined audience says, which to
me is not. It's sort of like honestly, for
real. It's my husband because he's a
great reader. He's also a poet and a writer.
And so he is kind of the first audience that and I'm just like,
(11:49):
what will make him laugh? What's the most honest?
He knows sort of we're both likebig readers.
Like any like hint of falseness of like try again trying to like
be like I'm safe to the audience.
Like all of that has to go like in my head as I'm as I'm
writing. But what I don't think is that,
oh, this is going to be read by a lot of I'm not thinking about
(12:10):
that as I'm writing ever like that it's ever going to be
something. It's just something that I have
to like create a discreet like Ihave to find the answer to this,
you know, any discreet piece of writing, Like what is the answer
to my feeling about this? What am I trying to say and why
am I trying to say it? Anything that like you
mentioned, like these kind of dark trees moments, it all falls
(12:34):
back on me. Like I think I'm the hardest on
myself because that's how I am in life.
If I'm fighting with my sisters,I might be like righteously,
like they're wrong, Fuck them. But you know what happens in the
quiet times is I'm like, this isyou.
You did this, you did this. And I find This is why no one
can really hurt me because I've already told myself all the all
(12:55):
the horrible things about myself.
So in my essays, and but by the way, I try to make fun of like
my peccadilloes and all the the ways that I can be wrong and
dumb, but that's that that's I'mjust trying to get at like, what
is who, who is this? Who is this that's making this?
And it it changes all the time because we change.
Well, and, and those scenes of especially the, the ones with
(13:16):
your dad, it's, it's, there's truth there.
Yeah, I you know, my dad has read the book and he said, I
don't know if I told you this, but he said that the only there
are several essays when which heappears and only one where he
appears in a compromised, truly compromised form.
But he said that the only issue he had just with the book is
(13:37):
that he's not in it enough. So I mean, he agrees and he sort
of has us like, well, did you need to include all the details?
Like is this so he's sort of like his ass, like do you need
to put in everything? And I think about this like, and
he's joke because he's he gets the right, he kind of gets the
right and he gets what it means to be a writer.
(13:58):
But I've thought about this liketo do what did I always need to
kind of go for like that, that maybe that detail that is way
too embarrassing. But if I put myself out there
and if, and again, I'm not making if there's a detail
that's very comfortable, I did not make that up.
It's it's for real. And I have like people who.
(14:18):
Yeah, no, no, no. And, and for those that are
listening to this, that are going, what are they talking
about? Obviously read the book.
But I, I'll, all I'll say is, isthat my Theo passed away a
couple of weeks ago and a lot ofour family members had to go to
his apartment. He was single by himself and
whatever. And let's just say they
discovered a kind of treasure trove of things.
(14:41):
I, I think I know. I know what you're.
I think any listener would know.Sure, but yeah.
Single guy. Yeah, single guy time alone,
Yes. Is there DVD player?
No, there was photography or Oh,OK, yeah, like photographic
evidence. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Polaroids.
Also, I'm sorry for your loss, but.
(15:04):
I'm to my cousins who discoveredthat, but that's like a that's
like, I mean that would I when Iheard that, I was like, Oh my
gosh, that's a book champagne moment right there.
It's it is. No, that's, that's everything
we've been talking about. That's the bugginess that it was
sort of like, I'm so sorry. Oh, this is a gift.
But we were laughing. I mean, like, we're all laughing
our asses off, right? Like Theo got it going on,
(15:26):
right? Like, good for him.
You know? Fortunately, he couldn't, you
know, literally five days after he retired, he like, died.
It's insane. So that's like the craziness,
right? But at least we knew he had a
good time. That's kind of like New Orleans
in a heart shell. I mean, in a nutshell, right?
Like that's the kind of place where it's like, you know, let
the good times roll and then Hurricane Katrina.
(15:48):
How does New Orleans kind of play into your stories?
And, and we know it certainly does, but the the energy of that
city is so different. The culture is so different, the
the contradictions. How does that inform your kind
of narrative choices? It's it's really everything to
me. This is like it's, it's the
place that I mean will very likely be underwater.
(16:09):
Hope hopefully, like I'll be long gone, but it's I mean it's
coming, it's coming it but it's everything.
I I don't know of any other city.
And I mean that's because I'm from here.
I've been to many other cities, but not experienced just the,
the weird, the so many differentlives or what I think a friend
said this who had lived in New Orleans for about 10 years or
so. She was like, you can like just
(16:30):
walking down the block. You can walk two blocks and
there's like a million differentlives like happening just
there's, there's just. I don't know.
To me, it's like a city that like, in the moment, you want to
live in that moment, but in the aftermath of it, it's the guilt
of like, well, maybe we should have done something.
Yeah, it's a Catholic city. Yeah.
All of a sudden washed away on Sunday.
Exactly. And and then you just start over
(16:52):
again. Yeah, Monday morning.
That's when the corruption starts.
Literally starts all over again.Yeah.
Yeah, but it's it, it doesn't form everything.
I mean, I think it's just it's really for those get there now
'cause it's it. May not be there.
Not going to be there in 20-30 years, I don't know.
So you're now the book reviews editor for River Teeth.
(17:13):
How does engaging with other writers work influence now your
own prose and perspective? So it's been about a year that
I've done this and I think I'm, I'm still learning how to edit,
but it's, it's fun. I think I've always kind of had
it in like the MFA, for instance.
I've always been much clearer onwhat other people like, what
(17:37):
other people need to fix in their work than my own.
So this is like I in a good way,giving me a chance to like to
practice sort of like what's he?As I've read book reviews, I'm
developing my aesthetic. I'm sort of, I'm developing that
and thinking about like what is needed.
Like we review mostly, no exclusively, I would say
(17:59):
independent books and trying to give voice to, you know, to
books that aren't going to get like much media coverage.
So it's like, what what does it take to do that?
It's not sort of like it can be a little bit personal, but not
be all about the author. And the reviews I like most are
the ones who sort of like, yes, it's a review of this book, but
(18:19):
it's also thinking about like what conversation is what other
books and what part of like literary, like contemporary
literary history is this book inconversation with like, what is
the context of this? And, and also like, making
people want to read it. I mean, not that like, book
reviewing is like advertising, but in a way it's sort of like,
what is deep reading? This is what I'm always thinking
(18:40):
about. Like both deep reading, but also
like, the art of making a book review an essay in itself,
again, without being too much about the narrator.
So all of these things, like I'mlearning this, like as I'm
reading these essays and, like, try to push that kind of
aesthetic. And so I guess I mean, in terms
of like helping my writing, yeah, I write one book, a review
(19:02):
a year. So I'm not like, that's not like
necessarily, but I, I, I do think that young writers
starting out need to learn the skill because it's sort of like,
what do you want to do? Like what is what is, what is it
that you want to do? So I'll with reviewers, I want
them to review a book that they're like, OK, I, I, I'm, I
(19:23):
jive with this aesthetic and what are, what are the things
that I want to pull out of that?So I think it's just really
encouraging writers who want to review to to know their art and
to be able to like extrapolate what they can, like the good
stuff on these books that they're reviewing.
So double clicking on that. You're also a professor in an
MFA program. How does that also shape your
(19:44):
understanding of craft and community in creative non
fiction? Well, one thing that it that
it's done truly is that I do have enormous like in like the
the age of AI, you know, I mean,like everyone, we're we're, you
know, I understandably freaking out about that.
But when I read the work of these students, like I just, I
(20:06):
know that human storytelling is like not like our our need for
that in order to survive is not going away.
I have the most talented suit. Like they're it's, it's
wonderful to work with them. And I think it's it's
interesting to sort of be at this.
Stage in my career that I've been writing now for so long,
(20:27):
but only now newly minted as like a professor in a in a
creative writing program and like there's no one path to
this. I think they expect they think
that professorship happens like you get the MFA, then you pump
out that book within three yearsof that MFA and then you become
a professor and I'm like, I got my MFA 20 years ago.
(20:47):
I became a professor last year, right like if by the way, like
not that professorship is the end all be all, but only path.
But sure, they'll you know, IA portion of them do want to do
that and it's like you don't know and we're I'm here to just
support whatever it is that you like you're writing life sure
and give you like the tools as much as I can.
(21:09):
I just, I'm in awe of their talent.
I'm sure there are plenty of folks who come up to you,
especially Latinos, Latinas, whosee your path and your career
and, you know, writing books andediting and being in academia
and all those sort of things. Given everything that's going on
right now in the world, especially the view of
(21:33):
immigrants in this country, whatdo you say to them?
You try maybe frag that is really, really hard.
I, I guess that we need their stories and then just just
straight up like that's now morethan ever.
I know it's very easy to be like, there's no like to feel
(21:55):
that hopelessness. Sure.
And, and, and again, I do recognize that I'm in a
privileged position of like being first of all, like being a
citizen and, you know, having the language and having all the
things that I have. I get it.
But really, I was having a conversation about this earlier
that it feels like this is a time for like just activism and
(22:18):
like going out the and more. And I'm not saying that that's
that is this is a time for that because we like something has
it's it's it's so scary. But if we are writers, it is
also the time to really take that even more seriously than
before. This isn't sort of like a, you
know, in the salad days of Barack Obama, you know, like,
(22:41):
like, oh, it's, it's easy to write because I just know what
my story is. Now.
Your story is more precious thatit needs to be whatever,
whatever that is, if you're writing whatever, whatever
you're writing. So I think I I say to them, I'm
sorry and keep going, particularly writers.
I mean, for that's what I can speak to.
(23:02):
Like writers need to. This is what we were put here
for to like document the time. And I mean, in thinking about my
the the other works that I'm working on next, like it's more
family. You know, one of one of my book
projects is more family stories and stuff.
But all the things that are happening in the culture that
(23:23):
get they, they have to be a partof it.
And so I think just like being awake to what is surrounding us,
but not bugginess, but also being like you have to, you have
to keep going. As a Latina, as a writer, as an
editor and as a teacher, or noneof those things, if you wanted
to remove those things just because I've labeled you that,
(23:46):
that way, what it just what doesit just mean for Brooke
Champagne to be unapologeticallycreative?
Well, I think it's the the elusive thing of being who I am,
that that's always the search for me.
I mean, that's why I write is tofigure that out.
And you know, you think if you're writing, if you're an
(24:08):
essayist like I am and you writethe book and you're like, I
think some people think like, oh, here's the answer.
Here's me. It's in NOLA face.
Before NOLA face was done, I wasalready writing the other book
of like, oh, also here's me. There's so many.
And so I think it's all about figuring out who that person is.
(24:28):
And I think one of the things that that drives me is just, and
I think this is the thing that Igot from Lala, who some, again,
some people have read the book and been like, wow, she was nuts
and she was abusive. And they have like ways of, of
looking at her. But the thing that really is,
has been instilled in me is to love so hard.
(24:50):
And I, I do this with my kids islike just, it's almost like it's
almost too much love for you. It's almost like suffocation,
right? Yeah.
Yeah. If you could go back and speak
to your younger self back in theearly days of of being in in New
Orleans, what encouragement or challenges would you throw to
young the young Champagne? I mean, I think I would tell my
(25:14):
younger self to relax a little bit.
I I, I, I was always really highstrung, but also like having to
hold that in. I wish I could have, I'd tell
myself that like you do have thethings that you need, like
you're actually, your mom was right in this weird way.
Like you are not messing things up.
(25:36):
You're like, you are enough. I mean, I know that's like
bumper sticker type shit. Sure.
Like I think I, I think I neededthat.
I think the younger me needed tobe like, you're safe and it's OK
and like actually you are lovable.
Like all of it, like, you know, but if I did give the younger me
the encouragement, then I would have grown up much more sanely
(25:57):
and then I wouldn't be able to write the way.
So like maybe? Just do you do.
You. Yeah, young Brooke, go fuck
yourself. No advice, no encouragement, no.
No challenge, nothing. Just just live there.
Just the just, just the sheer sight of the Chong Kla would be
enough for her to know. Maybe that's.
(26:19):
It by a voice. Yeah, yeah, right.
How do you hope that your work, your stories kind of uplift and
shape the landscape of cultural belonging and humor and empathy?
And especially now today, with so much of this kind of
craziness that's going on in theworld, what do you hope that
your work could do for for for audiences and communities who
(26:39):
read your work? I that that is so sweet.
I I just a sweet question to think about.
I really hope that it just encourages other people to make
art too. Thanks for listening to
Unapologetically Created. Be sure to follow the show.
And stay tuned for. More insightful conversations in
(27:00):
the episodes ahead to learn moreabout the Vermont College of
Fine Arts. Visit.
Vcfa.edu.
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Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.