The Family Van Pelt Episode 4 - Old People Who Happen To Like You

Lucy torments Linus with a call to their blanket-hating grandma. She explains that to be a good brother he has to work at it, and he succeeds with a bowl of ice cream. A new segment is revealed, “Hangin’ Out at the Thinkin’ Wall.” This week the guys discuss Snoopy before resuming the season-long look at the Van Pelt Family. 

Transcript available at UnpackingPeanuts.com

Jimmy’s, Michael’s, and Harold’s books are available at UnpackingPeanuts.com/store.

Listener Joshua Stauffer's new podcast https://joshuastauffer1.substack.com/

Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark. 

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Thanks for listening.

Episode Transcript

VO (00:02):
Welcome to Unpacking Peanuts.
The podcast where three cartoonists take an in-depth look at the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts by Charles M.
Schulz.

Jimmy (00:19):
Hey, everybody.
Welcome back to the show.
It's another episode of Unpacking Peanuts.
Today, we're going to be continuing our long look at the Van Pelt family, and I'm going to be your host for the proceedings.
My name is Jimmy Gownley.
Joining me as always are my pals, co-hosts, and fellow cartoonists, Michael Cohen.

Michael (00:37):
Say hey.

Jimmy (00:38):
Harold Buchholz.

Harold (00:40):
Hello.

Jimmy (00:41):
Our producer and editor keeping us out of trouble, Liz Sumner.

Liz (00:44):
Howdy.

Jimmy (00:45):
Guys, here we are.
Another episode back here talking about the Van Pelt.
I've been enjoying this, but I also have been thinking about some other Peanuts related.
Items, and I thought I'd like to introduce, if you guys don't mind, a brand new segment.
What do you guys say?

(01:06):
I want to call it, Hangin Out at the Thinkin Wall.

Michael (01:09):
And we occasionally think.

Jimmy (01:11):
All right.

Harold (01:11):
Here's what it is.

Jimmy (01:13):
You know, sometimes perhaps the thoughts we have don't fit into our themes because now we're doing these themes instead of just reading the strips.
So I thought we could have a little segment in every episode, or maybe not every episode, just whenever we want to have it, where we can bring up some thoughts, some ideas that wouldn't fit normally in the episode.

(01:35):
And I got one to start off if you guys are interested in it.

Harold (01:38):
Yeah.
I'd love to hear it.

Michael (01:39):
Cool.
Yeah.

Jimmy (01:41):
Okay.
So you know how your computer and your phone's obviously listening to you all the time?
So I had my phone out when we were recording one of our last episodes, and we said something about AI Snoopy.
Well, AI Snoopy is unfortunately all over Instagram.
There are millions of AI Snoopy gifts and memes and stuff like that.

(02:05):
But so I was kind of going through that, and I was thinking, oh, maybe this is what I want to talk about.
But then I came across something that was not AI, but it made me think.
And it was a picture of Snoopy drawn by Schulz, and it was a list of his characteristics.
But what was interesting about his characteristics are, his characteristics were things like warm, friendly, never let you.

(02:33):
It was all things that were not really identifiable with the character of Snoopy in his actions in the comic strip.
But this had been shared and liked by so many people who said, I read Peanuts every day in the newspaper from 1960, whatever.
Lots of people were relating to this as they're Snoopy.

(02:55):
I was thinking, okay, in the same sense that Schulz I thought was a character in the strip, does it make because Snoopy talks to the audience, he invites us into his little fantasies and stuff like that.
Does that mean that there is a relationship and a character of Snoopy that is different than the character that is experienced by the comic strip characters themselves?

(03:22):
Because Snoopy invites the reader into all his little fantasies and jokes.

Michael (03:28):
Okay.
Are you sure these reactions are not due to people thinking?

Jimmy (03:32):
I knew you were going to say that we're going to take people at their word and they're going to be fans of the comic strip and not just people who like the plush, like they said they like the comic strip.

Michael (03:42):
Well, yeah, but that doesn't stop me from saying what I was going to say, which is, are they reacting to the merchandise, which is warm and friendly and the little hallmark cards and rather than the actual comic strip?

Jimmy (03:57):
Harold, what do you think?

Harold (03:58):
It's interesting.
I think there is something to where you're going with this, Jimmy.
My sense is that there is, when you experience art through the work of one particular person or a really strong setting, it does affect how you look at the characters.

(04:19):
One of the things I used to say about Frank Capra, who directed my favorite movie, It's a Wonderful Life, and did a bunch of other famous films back in mostly in the 30s and 40s.
I love Capra's films because he doesn't judge his characters, he doesn't allow his actors to judge the characters.
And you just get the sense that he's loving characters, which in the context of Schulz's, I feel like Schulz respects all of his characters, despite their flaws.

(04:50):
And I do think that comes across in terms of how we see them.
And I've seen that list that you're talking about, Jimmy.
Did you see something with like Schulz's handwriting, or is this just a poster that somebody made of Snoop?

Jimmy (05:07):
Yeah, mine was just a meme.

Harold (05:10):
If it's the one I'm thinking of, I believe that is a poster that is being used to sell into Schulz.
So they're basically trying to model, if it's the same one, they're trying to model good behavior in using a popular character like Snoopy.
And so they drop those things in.
And yeah, it's not always true of Snoopy for sure.

(05:33):
But I remember when I was looking at it, it was like, it is true at least sometimes, right?
I don't think there's anything crazy out of character, right?
It's just that this is Snoopy at his best, I guess you might put it.
And I do feel like we look at characters through the lens of the creator, if the creator has a strong opinion.

(05:55):
It really, really, to me, does matter how the creator is coming across as, what's the creator's opinion of the character?
And I do think Schulz loved his characters.
Oh, yeah.

Liz (06:08):
Jimmy, can I clarify?
You asked whether Snoopy's personalities, the character of Snoopy exists for the readers and consumers of Peanuts outside of the characters living in the strip.

(06:29):
Is that what your question was?

Jimmy (06:30):
Well, it's because, yes, what I'm saying is essentially, Snoopy steals Linus' blanket, but then talks to us about how fun it was stealing Linus' blanket.
Snoopy is annoyed because his dinner is late, but then tells us something about it.
We have a relationship, the readers have a relationship with the character Snoopy in the comic strip.

(06:52):
That's fundamentally different than the characters in the strip, because they never get to do that.

Liz (06:58):
My reaction to that question, it reminds me of a concept I learned through NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, which is the idea that the meaning of the communication is in the response that it gets.
That rings true for me that people who are receiving peanuts have their own meaning of what it is.

Harold (07:27):
Yeah.

Jimmy (07:28):
Well, that's all I was thinking about.

Harold (07:32):
What's your take on that?
You open up the question, you've been thinking about it for a while.
Can you flesh out what you're seeing in all of this?

Jimmy (07:40):
Well, it's such an interesting thing, and it's probably not unique to peanuts, but it's probably very close to peanuts or unique to peanuts, and maybe even originated with it.
Just this idea that there is one character that has a much closer relationship to the readers than he does to almost any other character in the strip.

(08:05):
The only people that can fully understand Snoopy is Woodstock and us.
That's amazing, I think.
You know what I mean?
It's not like Crazy Cat had a guy in the strip that had a completely different relationship with the cat than we did, you know?
And I guess Garfield does that stuff on a lower level, but that of course is all post-Snoopy.

(08:32):
And it just struck me.
It's like, yeah, there's got to be a reason.
And like, yeah, I mean, I know that they hold up their, they like their dolls and stuff like that, but they like the doll for a reason.
If there's 15 very, very cute dolls a kid could pick from, and one's Snoopy, it's because, and they pick Snoopy, it's because they have a relationship with Snoopy.
And I just think that's an incredible thing.

(08:54):
And I think it has, it goes a long way to say why it's so universally popular.

Liz (08:59):
I have a question.
Did we, when we were talking about doing the Snoopy episodes, did we compare in any way the character's reaction to Snoopy to the audience reaction to Snoopy?
Is that something we should do a follow up about?

Jimmy (09:18):
That's what I'm doing now.

Liz (09:20):
Oh, well, no, but actually try to describe the difference between the-

Harold (09:26):
Yeah, it might be worth an episode.

Jimmy (09:30):
All right, well, that is what I was thinking about.
If you guys want to continue thinking about it, that's great.
If you want to also maybe send us a segment, a possible idea rather for the new segment, Hangin Out at the Thinkin Wall, you can do that.
You can email us at unpackingpeanuts.gmail.com.
Of course, you can call our hotline [phone].

(09:53):
All right, so that is our new segment.
If no one else has any new business, I'm happy to get to the comic strips.

Liz (10:00):
Sounds good.

Jimmy (10:01):
All right.
Now, I picked the comic strips for this episode, and I did them in a completely out-of-order chaotic pattern.
What I want to do is I want to share some clear examples of the relationship between Lucy and Linus, and then also a little talk about possibly their career goals, because these characters, as much as any characters in Peanuts, maybe more than any characters in Peanuts, are real focused on their future careers.

(10:33):
So, with all that said, let's start.
February 15th, 1965, Linus and Lucy are outside, and Lucy is on her hands, they're both on their hands and knees, but Lucy is staring at the ground, and she's at a little spot, and she says, look at this tiny little bug.
Then as the bug crawls away, she says, it's appalling how little he knows.

(10:54):
He's not like us.
He doesn't know anything about voting or disease or earthquakes or love or Monday mornings.
And then Linus says to Lucy, who's better off?

Michael (11:06):
If you look closely, I think it's a piece of us.

SPEAKER_6 (11:13):
Oh no.

Jimmy (11:15):
I apologize if the guys make me laugh.
I'm going to cough all episode.
I have a bit of a cold.
I'm actually recording this episode from bed.

Harold (11:23):
I'm all tucked in.
That's a cozy image.

Jimmy (11:31):
I have to say, it may be my new setup.

Harold (11:34):
Well, I'm kind of liking it.
I'm doing it from bed as well, but I'm always doing it from my bed.
Sitting on top of the bed.

Liz (11:42):
Oh, I bet Michael would want to be doing it from his bed.
He does all of his drawing from bed.

Jimmy (11:49):
We got to do a slumber party episode.
We're releasing it at midnight.
I like this because I think it shows the two guys together here.
We got Lucy who, with this tiny little bug, is criticizing it.
Not really criticizing it, but she's thinking of all the things he can and can't do, compared to her and her human friends.

(12:13):
Then Linus asking something philosophical and somewhat gentle, and making Lucy think it looks like they're in that last panel.

Harold (12:24):
Yeah, it's great to see them together, and it does remind me of having that sibling relationship.
I did have a very smart older sister who was trying to shepherd me through some of the things that I was clueless about, so it's nice to have somebody who's been through it before you.

Jimmy (12:44):
Unfortunately, with this, you got Lucy, who has no idea what's going on, apparently, so.

Liz (12:48):
But she thinks she does.

Jimmy (12:49):
She thinks she does.
Michael, did your sister do any shepherding with you?

Michael (12:54):
Oh, thank God, no.
I kept my door locked.

Jimmy (13:00):
Lest ye be shepherded.

Michael (13:02):
Yeah, no, I didn't want any of that kind of stuff.

Jimmy (13:06):
Now, here, let me ask you guys this question.
What about your relationship with your older sister's friends and stuff?
Did you pick stuff up from them?
Were they completely off limits or what was the deal there?

Michael (13:19):
No, I did not have any relationship with anyone.

SPEAKER_6 (13:22):
Ha ha ha ha.

Harold (13:27):
In my world, usually if it was like her specific friend who'd come over or whatever, I would 99% of the time not be a part of that world because that's their time.
The one thing we would have in common is going out into the little cul-de-sac that we lived on and everyone from the neighborhood would be out.

(13:48):
So if my sister and I were out there, we would be then interacting with just the general kids of the neighborhood, but not so much the one-on-one friendships that's off limits.

Michael (14:04):
Right.

Jimmy (14:06):
A friend of my neighborhood had to drag his little sister, Heather, around everywhere.
It was very much a rerun situation for her.
Some of her summer vacations, I thought, this could not have been too exciting for you kid.
Watching Jackie play with a ball, watching him play tennis.
She sat in her plastic chair.

Liz (14:27):
My sister thought I was her mascot and took me around and really was very sweet to me.
She was very cool.
This was my middle sister.
Eldest sister was much more responsible and not as much fun.

Harold (14:44):
How much older was your middle sister?

Liz (14:47):
Five years and seven years.

Harold (14:49):
Wow, five years.
That is interesting.
That's a different dynamic.
It's obviously not a mom by any stretch, but the two-year difference I found was it's still fresh.
She can remember when I went into seventh grade, she's in ninth, and she can remember seventh and she remembers the stuff she learned.

(15:12):
She looks at me, clueless me, and realizes I'm not catching up on the clues.
So she tries to get that over in a very bite-size way instead of me learning it the hard way, that kind of thing.
That's what I remember about the other than, we always had our own conflicts, like we're typical, but that was, especially as we got older, she was looking out for me and that was just a wonderful thing to have.

Jimmy (15:41):
That's fantastic.
And I, of course, only child, Aquarius, obviously, total chaos agent.
Sorry, guys, this is what it is.
July 19th, 1965.
We're in the Van Pelt household, Linus is dragging around his security blanket and Lucy yells after him, You know what makes me sick?

(16:04):
Seeing you drag that blanket around.
If our blanket-hating grandma were here, you wouldn't be so smug.
She thinks letting kids have security blankets is stupid.
And Linus does look quite smug there in classic thumb and blanket position.
Then Lucy walks away and Linus looks after her as Lucy says, I agree with her.
I guess I must take after her.

(16:26):
And Linus back to thumb and blanket position says, That's always been the trouble with our family.
We have too much heredity.

Harold (16:34):
That's great.

Jimmy (16:37):
I always thought, you know, there's that company 23andMe and it's like, or no, it's ancestry.com and it's add a branch to your family tree.
I want to start a business where you remove branches from your family tree.
I think it would be way, I mean, when people go, hey, you could write to this company and find out all these people you're related to.

Harold (16:59):
Congratulations, you are no longer Norwegian.

Jimmy (17:04):
Exactly, your whole life and identity has been based on this.

Harold (17:07):
We're going to plug you into some new stuff.
I think 4% droid, you know?

Jimmy (17:13):
Yeah.
Joking, I did do that once and I came back 68% cookie though.
All right, so why do we think, here's my question.
Is the blanket, I don't know if this was mentioned, I may have forgotten, but has the blanket-hating grandma been identified as their maternal or paternal grandma?

Michael (17:37):
Don't think so.

Harold (17:37):
That's it, I know.
What do you think?

Michael (17:40):
Kids don't even know that.

Harold (17:43):
What do you think, though?
I felt it was for some reason on the mother's side, but I don't know.

Jimmy (17:51):
How about you, Michael?

Michael (17:53):
Like I say, it doesn't occur to kids.

Jimmy (17:57):
So it didn't occur to you?

Michael (17:58):
Who the grandparents are, they're just these old people who haven't really liked you.

Harold (18:06):
You could put that on a dish towel, Michael, and make a fortune.
Grandparents are old people who happen to like you.

Liz (18:15):
Well, let's make a T-shirt.

Jimmy (18:20):
So this is insight into the Michael Cohen childhood.
So you would just show up or they would show up and visit and you'd be like, oh, because you didn't even speak, your one grandmother did not speak English, right?

Liz (18:31):
Well, but you didn't know your paternal grandparents, right?

Michael (18:35):
Yeah, they lived next door.

Liz (18:36):
They did?
No.

Michael (18:38):
For a while, yeah.

Liz (18:39):
Really?

Michael (18:40):
Yeah.
My grandmother hated us and my grandfather didn't say much, except in Yiddish, which we didn't understand.
Anyway, that's just my observation.
I just don't think kids think about, oh, that's my mom's mom.
That's just like a deep, too complex for a little kid's mind.

Jimmy (19:03):
Okay.
But what about you?
Do you think the blanket-hating grandma is the mom's mom or the dad's mom?
If you're just making a bet.

Michael (19:12):
I bet Schulz didn't know.

Harold (19:13):
No, I'm sure he didn't.

Michael (19:15):
So you want me to know?
Yes.

Jimmy (19:17):
That's what I've been trying to do for the last five minutes.

Harold (19:20):
You can see everybody is sitting up in his bed.

Michael (19:22):
I should be smarter than Schulz.

Jimmy (19:24):
I don't think it's a smart thing.
I don't think there's a wrong or right answer.

Michael (19:28):
I think there is an answer.
All right.

Harold (19:31):
How about you, Liz?

Jimmy (19:32):
We broke Michael.

Liz (19:35):
Welcome to my world.
I honestly don't have an opinion.

Jimmy (19:40):
Well, that was a fruitful line of reasoning.

Harold (19:43):
What do you think?
What just popped in your head?

Jimmy (19:46):
Definitely mother.
There's no question.

SPEAKER_6 (19:48):
I don't know why, but I agree with you.

Harold (19:51):
Well, it's cool now that we're going back and looking at these specifically Van Pelt things and we're starting to fill in these little gaps that I didn't remember from the strip, like that Lucy had the blanket, and at least at one point Linus took her blanket, which was her kind of thing.
She had her own security blanket for a while.

(20:12):
That's kind of interesting.
And the grandma is, well, we certainly see it.
Is this the sequence when grandma does show up?
And this is July 19th, 1965 again.
And yeah, the grandma has a major impact here, even though we of course don't see her, because Lucy's right.

(20:33):
Grandma's going to step in.

Liz (20:37):
Well, and often qualities skip generations.
So if Lucy is known as being critical, then probably her maternal grandmother was.

Harold (20:47):
Well, then okay, then we now, if we follow that line of thinking, what is their mom like?
How would we, well, because she's allowing apparently, this thumb sucking and the blanket holding into a later than usual time period.

(21:08):
So is this more of a laissez-faire kind of family when it comes to mom?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Liz (21:16):
Trying out freedom for the children.

Jimmy (21:21):
Well, yeah, and as someone who has raised children semi-successfully, no, they're successful, they're great.

Harold (21:28):
They're wonderful, yeah.

Jimmy (21:31):
My work is semi-success, you know what I mean?
I'm criticizing myself, not them.
I found that if I was going to make mistakes as a parent, they're going to be the opposite of the mistakes my parents made, which by the way, it's not like any better, it's just different.

Harold (21:47):
Right, right.

Jimmy (21:48):
But I think that makes sense to you, right?
Where if my mom was strict about something, I would be more laissez-faire about it.

Harold (21:55):
It's the pendulum, it's the reaction, yeah.

Jimmy (21:58):
Yes, yeah.
And it's almost like you can't help it.
It's not like you're sitting there looking at your child and going, I'm going to do, well, maybe I did.

Harold (22:07):
But going back to the idea that these parents are psychiatrists or psychologists or whatever, or maybe they're professors in this area, obviously we're making all this stuff up, but when I think about the 60s and then what led into, say, education, this is the year before I was born.

(22:27):
But there was this period, and I think my sister, two years older than me, born 1964, really caught the brunt of some major experimentation with kids in school and giving them incredible amounts of freedom versus reading, writing, arithmetic.

(22:49):
And so the philosophies that were coming out, they have to be implemented.
So it would make sense that people who are trying to figure out children and how to properly raise children, around this time in the mid-sixties, there is a movement to just give them a lot of freedom.
Don't try to shoehorn them into things, let them find their path.

Liz (23:13):
Well, there really was a big difference between the generation before 65 and the generation after.

Jimmy (23:20):
Well, I would say, Catholics, we did free to be quiet and sitting in your desk.
Now, hey, before we leave this thing, because I also picked July 20th, 1965.
So let's discuss it here, because Lucy is now on the phone, and as she's calling someone in, we see her saying, Hello, Grandma, could you come over to see us?

(23:46):
I miss you.
Now, Linus walks in and sees this occurring, as Lucy continues, This afternoon?
Fine, I can hardly wait till you get here.
And then she hangs up and turns and smiles very happily at Linus, who's upset.
And Linus says, You invited our blanket-hating grandmother over?
And then Linus screams to the heavens, Oh, what a vile scheme!

(24:10):
As he hugs his blanket.
And then Lucy, with the best wicked grin, laughs herself.

SPEAKER_6 (24:16):
Hee hee hee hee hee.

Liz (24:19):
I think that's the episode title, Oh, what a vile scheme.

Jimmy (24:23):
Oh, what a vile scheme.
Now, I wanted to talk to both of you guys, all three of you about this, actually, since you all have siblings.
This is actually really just me trying to understand what it would be like to have a sibling.
That is the entire point on this.
Now, okay, I can't remember what we were talking about a couple of episodes ago, but Lucy did something mean to Linus, and Harold described that as cruel.

(24:51):
I was like, would you say that's cruel?

Harold (24:54):
Harold, definitely cruel.

Jimmy (24:55):
I think everyone thought it was cruel, and I was like, I thought it was kind of just like friendly Josh and around.

Liz (25:02):
It was, it was, chow.

Harold (25:05):
Yes, screaming into his ear from behind him when he didn't know she was there.

SPEAKER_6 (25:10):
Oh, that's right.

Jimmy (25:11):
That's right.

SPEAKER_6 (25:11):
Okay.

Liz (25:12):
I thought it was hysterically funny.

SPEAKER_6 (25:14):
Oh, you thought it was very, okay, right.

Jimmy (25:15):
So we're too funny.
What do we think about Lucy doing this?

Michael (25:20):
I think we've seen it before where she's trying to help Linus in as cruel a way as possible.
I think that's what's happening here, is she really thinks his blanket's a bad idea, which it probably is, and so she's enjoying inflicting this torture on him.
Right.

(25:41):
Because she thinks if he gets rid of the blanket, it'll be better for him.

Jimmy (25:45):
Right.

Michael (25:46):
Which is probably true.

Jimmy (25:47):
Right.
So it's interesting.
Yeah.
There's got to be a word for this, where it's like you're altruistic, but the only reason you're altruistic is so that you could be also cruel.

Liz (26:02):
For your own good.

Jimmy (26:03):
Yeah.
It was self-centered altruism.

Harold (26:05):
It's a whole new thing she invented.

Michael (26:07):
You might have to get these protesters off the street for their own good.

Liz (26:15):
Now, one of the things that I find very odd is, I cannot imagine talking to my grandmother on the telephone.

SPEAKER_6 (26:21):
Oh, really?

Liz (26:22):
Yeah.
Never happened.
Never.

Harold (26:25):
Not even in a formal sense.
We're like, oh, and here's Liz.
Happy Mary.
All right.
Some on a holiday or everyone's on the phone talking to grandma.

Liz (26:35):
Now, we would have been over at her house, but never on the telephone.

Harold (26:39):
So are you saying-

Liz (26:39):
Cannot remember a single time.

Harold (26:41):
It was just the formality of on your own, on your own impetus calling your grandmother up.
Yeah.
Yeah.

Jimmy (26:48):
I can't imagine that either.
Yeah.

Liz (26:50):
Or even talking to her if she happened to call, but I don't remember her ever using the telephone.

Harold (26:54):
Everything was mediated between, with the parents in between when it came to that stuff.

Michael (27:01):
They didn't quite understand what the telephone was or how it worked.

Jimmy (27:11):
Were you left in the attic like that for years and just came out 10 years later all pale?
What is this world?

Liz (27:19):
His grandmother didn't know what the telephone was.

SPEAKER_6 (27:21):
Oh, I thought they weren't telling you what the telephone was.
Don't tell Michael.

Michael (27:28):
These newfangled things.

Harold (27:30):
Reach out and touch someone.
Stop it.

Jimmy (27:34):
Hey, listen, can you imagine in five, six years, we'll be wishing we were as adept as our grandparents, I'm sure with technology.

Harold (27:47):
Yeah.
I can't remember how you put it, Michael, but I think it's absolutely true that Lucy thinks she's doing the right thing for her little brother.
But as long as she's doing the right thing, she must have a little fun with it to get her kicks out of doing the right thing.

Jimmy (28:13):
It's interesting because it bridges William Pepper's idea that she is trying to help with the fact that she is just a mean person as well.
She totally has her cake and eats it too.
Obviously, he does have to give up, if it was a real person, I mean, has to give up the blanket eventually.

Liz (28:33):
I don't know about that.
Here I am going to reveal myself as a person who sucked her thumb until she was 35.
I don't think you have to give up the blanket.
There comes a lot of times when you might have given it up, but you still kept it and you managed to go 35 years.

Jimmy (28:58):
Integrate it seamlessly into your life.

Harold (29:01):
Yes.

Michael (29:03):
Linus probably thinks if everybody had blankets, the world would be a better place.

Liz (29:07):
It certainly could have been.

Michael (29:10):
You may be right.

SPEAKER_2 (29:10):
Yeah.

Jimmy (29:12):
Interesting.
All good stuff.
All right.
Now, moving on a little bit, we're going to go into the 70s here where we're talking about Lucy in her early iteration of her, no doubt, future career as a psychiatrist.
We're looking at June 10th, 1973, and it's a Sunday page.

(29:33):
It starts off with Lucy behind her booth, but this time, because it's a symbolic panel, it says, Flawless Advice, and Lucy Van Pelt at the top.
Then we see Charlie Brown arrives as a patient and he says, So for all I know, I'm wrong.
He continues, My trouble is, I never know if I'm doing the right thing.

(29:54):
I need to have someone around who can tell me when I'm doing the right thing.
And then Lucy says, Okay, you're doing the right thing.
That'd be five cents, please.
Then Lucy leans back, kicks her shoes up.
Charlie Brown walks off satisfied.
Very next panel, he's back looking deflated.
And Lucy says, Back already?
What happened?
And Charlie Brown sits on the stool and says, I was wrong.

(30:16):
It didn't help.
You need more in life than just having someone around to tell you when you're doing the right thing.
And then Lucy says, Now you've really learned something.
That'll be another five cents, please.

Liz (30:29):
What a great strip.

Michael (30:32):
Well, I'm just curious, did Linus ever come visit the psychiatrist booth?

Jimmy (30:37):
In 17,897 strips, of which we have read all of them, I cannot think it would be more than once or twice if it ever happened.
I cannot recall one.

Liz (30:51):
I will search on Peanuts Search.

Michael (30:54):
Because it seems like there'd be some good laughs there if it happened.

Liz (30:59):
Yeah.

Jimmy (30:59):
Unless Linus is just too smart to-

Harold (31:02):
Why is this getting it for free?
He isn't going to pay five times.
Well, that's true.

Michael (31:07):
That's true.

Harold (31:08):
Charlie Brown, he has to cough up a dime.
That was going toward a comic book.

Michael (31:16):
Look at that silhouette panel.
That's something Schulz did not do earlier.

Harold (31:20):
Yeah.
The second to last panel.

Jimmy (31:21):
I just wanted to say, isn't it weird?
The eyes on Charlie Brown is particularly strange.

Liz (31:27):
Yes.

Jimmy (31:29):
You rarely see that complete side view of the stand, where you see her legs.
You can see it's actually a box that she can tuck her legs under.

Michael (31:39):
Yeah.
She's got a little stool, I think.

Harold (31:41):
Yeah.
I relate to this now that I'm setting up a booth in front of the Metropolitan.
I'm analyzing her style here.
That's very effective.
You can easily get that in and out.

Michael (31:52):
But this is one of Wally Wood's panels that always work.

Jimmy (31:56):
Twenty-two panels that always work.

Harold (31:58):
Yeah.
We'll explain that to our listeners.

Michael (32:00):
Well, Jimmy, go ahead.

Jimmy (32:01):
Oh, God.
Okay.
Wally Wood was a cartoonist that started in the early 50s, and he worked for all the big companies, but he worked for EC Comics and Marvel Comics.
One of his things was that he was a very efficient, let's say, freelancer, and he had all kinds of rules for making the work go smoother and better.

(32:23):
He had this thing called 22 panels that always work.
You can find that on the Internet now.
It's just a little sheet he drew with sketches on it.
Basically, if you're stuck, you can follow this little chart and find a type of panel that will always work.
And having the characters in silhouettes from a distance is one of the 22 panels that will always work.

(32:43):
As things like close up, you know, I can't remember any of the other ones now.
But yeah, it's very interesting and helpful to have around.

Harold (32:52):
So the second to last panel is the panel for those of you guys who are not playing along at home, looking at the strips.
It's the panel where Charlie Brown is saying to Lucy, you need more in life than just someone around to tell you when you're doing the right thing.
What is the effect of Schulz using a silhouette here on that panel for you guys in the strip?

Michael (33:19):
I don't know what the effect is, but it definitely has an effect.

Harold (33:22):
Yeah.

Michael (33:23):
It's hard to describe it, but it just makes that more important.
Like there's music playing in the background.

Liz (33:29):
Exactly.

Michael (33:30):
Yeah.

Liz (33:30):
Yeah.
It's some sort of proverb.

Jimmy (33:32):
That is a really interesting way to put that.

Harold (33:36):
It's like there's music playing in the background.

Jimmy (33:39):
That's wild.

Harold (33:40):
Yeah.
I guess the way I might have put it is that the focus is on the words.
You can't get sucked up into the cartooning itself as much in the character other than what they specifically are saying.
It's like Schulz to me is saying, take a look at what he's saying here.

(34:02):
This is where you want to focus.

Jimmy (34:04):
This is something interesting about this.
Because in all the drawings, we see Charlie Brown and Lucy clearly.
It was, I know, I know, I know.
Then Lucy just talking to you, but meaning you, meaning Charlie Brown.
The silhouette, he doesn't say, I need more in life.
He says, you need more life.

(34:25):
Meaning though, one needs more in life.
It's like saying, it's saying, this is the point.
This is universal as opposed to just being about Charlie Brown.
Now, I'm not thinking he necessarily thought that, but it's definitely there.
It's the only time where Charlie Brown is talking about anyone other than himself.

Harold (34:49):
It looks like even if he's in silhouette, you do have two little white dots for his eyes.
A white dot produces a profile looking at him across through her booth entrance there.
And the way his arms are out, his explaining arms are out, the classic Schulz explaining arms.
I think of Sally doing her show and tell, you know, those little hands.

(35:12):
It looks like he's looking straight at us, even though it's in silhouette, which is weird.
But it's like he's on the stage looking at us, telling us this.

Michael (35:26):
Yeah, yep.

Liz (35:29):
And FYI, on September 13th, 1961, there's a strip with Linus at the psychiatry booth.

Harold (35:37):
There you go.

Michael (35:38):
You should check that out.

Liz (35:39):
I found that on peanutssearch.com.

Jimmy (35:42):
Well, hey, since you did that, what's the date?
And why don't we check it out right now as part of the show and then before we do our break.

Liz (35:49):
September 13th, 1961.

Jimmy (35:53):
Okay, so here we are September 13th, 1961.
Charlie Brown is in his house or in a house and he looks and he sees that something has been plugged into his wall socket and it looks like it's quite a long cord so he follows it and in panel two he follows it right out of his house and then down the little stoop and then in panel three he follows it across the lawn and then we see it arrives all the way out at a reel-to-reel recording deck at Lucy's psychiatry booth.

(36:24):
We see Linus there definitely as a patient and the sign now says, psychiatric help, five cents, modern methods.

SPEAKER_6 (36:34):
Yeah, okay.

Michael (36:36):
That's it.
So we don't know what the session was about.

Jimmy (36:39):
We got to get our hands on that tape.

SPEAKER_6 (36:41):
Yes.

Liz (36:43):
Oh, it's probably on some hard drive and will never be found again.

Jimmy (36:46):
You know, sometimes things happen.
Things go missing.
What are you going to do?
Also, another thing that sometimes happens is people got to take a break.
That's what we're going to do right now.
You guys go get a drink, get a snack, do whatever, stretch your legs, listen to our commercials.
And then we'll be right back on the other side.

Liz (37:05):
All righty.
Hi everyone.
Thank you for listening and engaging with us.
Your appreciation makes this effort a real pleasure.
And now we're asking that you support our work.
If you enjoy the show, we hope you'll join us on Patreon as a contributor.
Those of you who count, for whatever reason, that's okay.

(37:26):
We've been there.
We're glad you're here.
Thank you for being an essential part of Unpacking Peanuts.

Jimmy (37:36):
And we're back.
Hope you had a good break.
Liz, I'm hanging out in the mailbox.
Do we got anything?

Liz (37:41):
We do.
We got an email from John Marullo, Super Listener John Marullo, who says, Hi, all.
Hearing the first episode of the Family Van Pelt series and a discussion of the parents brought me to a realization.
There may be exceptions, but as a rule, if we know more about any human peanuts character's parents, that character has a canonical surname.

(38:05):
Of course, we have the Brown and Van Pelt families about whom we know the most.
But we also have Violet Gray, for whom boasting of her father's accomplishments was a running gag in the early 60s.

Jimmy (38:19):
Peppermint Patty.

Liz (38:20):
Five and three and four, nine, four, five, seven, two, whose father went hysterical one night because of their zip code and changed all their names to numbers.
It can be assumed the parents' names are one and two, making them the only parents of recurring characters with given names.

Jimmy (38:39):
Hold on.
I just want to say, that's genius.
I am wildly impressed by figuring that out.
Yeah, the parents have to be one and two.
Well done.

Liz (38:49):
Peppermint Patty Reichardt, whose father is raising her alone and calls her his rare gem, and Tapioca Pudding, who only appeared briefly.
But we do know that her father, Joe Pudding, works in licensing.
I doubt that Schulz did this on purpose, especially since Violet's surname is mentioned once very early on.

(39:10):
But it is interesting to note.
I'm really enjoying the new format, and I'm looking forward to hearing more about the Van Pelt family.

Jimmy (39:17):
That's fantastic.
Thank you for writing.
That's a great observation.

Harold (39:20):
Thanks, Sean.

Liz (39:21):
And we heard from Shayna Hickey 1987 on YouTube who commented, Woodstock episodes, yes, please.
And then she added, you guys are so fun to listen to.

Harold (39:34):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, we're having fun with the new format.
It's a little looser and just kind of a little more off the cuff.
And it helps us, I think, weave in and out of some of these themes a little bit better.
I'm enjoying it.

Liz (39:52):
And Rich Thomas sent us a video from Instagram of a Snoopy traffic light in Taiwan.
When the light's red, Snoopy stops and waits and looks around and then walks when the light is green.

Jimmy (40:08):
That's so cool.

Liz (40:10):
Yeah, it's very cute.

Harold (40:11):
That's better than that disembodied red hand.

Jimmy (40:15):
The red hand.

Liz (40:18):
So that's it for the mail that I have.

Jimmy (40:21):
All right.

Harold (40:22):
So did the city pay a licensing fee to Peanuts worldwide to have Snoopy as a walk signal?

Liz (40:30):
We'll have to find out from someone in Taiwan.

Jimmy (40:33):
Taiwan.

Harold (40:33):
Get on that.

Jimmy (40:37):
We got some messages from the hotline, two voicemails.
First off, we heard from super listener Joshua Stauffer who says, Hey guys, Joshua Stauffer here.
Listening to the beginning of the Van Pelt analysis.
I remember the first time I saw these earlier strips.
I was 10 years old and my school library had an impressive collection of Peanuts reprint books.

(40:58):
Me and some of my fifth grade classmates were looking at these and one kid said, Dude, that's like baby Charlie Brown.

Liz (41:08):
Little Charlie Brown.

Jimmy (41:09):
We were all surprised to see the Peanuts characters looking so young.
By the way, if you're looking for another character to explore, I'm rooting for Unpacking Peppermint Patty all the way.

Harold (41:20):
Be of good cheer.

Michael (41:22):
Be of good cheer.

Liz (41:23):
Yeah.
Thanks, Joshua.

Harold (41:25):
Peppermint Patty, the one you said could be its own strip.
Easy, right?
Easy could be its own strip.

Jimmy (41:31):
We also heard from someone who did not identify themselves.
So they are listener 626.
So happy I just found the pod.
Enjoying the Snoopy episodes, I would like to see an entire season focused on Woodstock.

Liz (41:51):
Yes, two bucks for Woodstock.

Jimmy (41:52):
That's like three or four, right?

Liz (41:54):
Yeah, I think so.

Jimmy (41:56):
Pretty exciting.

Liz (41:57):
Yeah.

Jimmy (41:57):
Now, of course, the more people want us to do it, the less I want to do it.
But that's more about me.

Harold (42:03):
That's a cycle.

Jimmy (42:04):
That's really for the psychiatric booth.

Harold (42:06):
I need to deal with that.

Liz (42:09):
I really want, when we do Marcy, I want to focus on Marcy and not do just Marcy with Peppermint Patty.
I think Peppermint Patty is such a strong force that I want to make sure that we give Marcy her due.

Jimmy (42:24):
Well, and I also think it's a really interesting way to look at something like this because, like you say, Peppermint Patty is a strong force, so Marcy is different with Peppermint Patty than she is with other people.
So it really goes to showing the subtlety of Schulz writing if we look at them in different ways.
Plus, we got to fill episodes, people.

(42:47):
So, listen though, if you guys have a suggestion about what you want, we're leaning towards Marcy, the many moods of Marcy or what was the other one that we had?
Mean Girls with Patty and Violet, and then this write-in momentum for Woodstock.
I don't know.
That seems like a train that we can't stop.

Michael (43:06):
But if you have a tidal wave, there's two.
Woodstock, that would be a tidal wave.

SPEAKER_6 (43:19):
It's overwhelming.

Jimmy (43:24):
All right.
So anyway, that's the mail.
If you want to get in touch with this, there's a couple of ways you can do it.
The first thing you could just e-mail us, unpackingpeanuts.gmail.com.
Then you could go over, what you got to do is you got to go over to that, unpackingpeanuts.com, sign up for the Great Peanuts Reread, which will let you know what we're going to be covering as we go forward in this new kind of format that we're exploring.

(43:49):
And you can also call the hotline or leave a text message 717-219-4162.
And remember, when I don't hear from you, I worry.
All right.
That's the mail.
That brings us to our other newish segment, Unpacking Peanuts Recommends.
Do you guys have anything that you are ready to recommend to our fine listeners this episode?

Michael (44:13):
Yes, I do.

Jimmy (44:14):
Michael, what do you got?

Michael (44:16):
What's it called when a writer, you publish a book and there's all these quotes, and they all happen to be like friends of the writer.
There's a word for that.

Jimmy (44:27):
Self-publishing.

Michael (44:30):
No, not quite.

Jimmy (44:33):
Pageography.

Michael (44:35):
Whatever it is.
Anyway, my recommendation is an obscure comic called Amelia Rule.
Yeah, it's really genius.
You may notice that Jimmy's rather funny.
And this strip is great.

(44:55):
What's really interesting about it, because I'm reading, I was gifted the collected eight volumes of Amelia, which is the entire run, reading them in order.
And I was around when it was happening.
I was editing the first couple of issues.
But Jimmy was trying to write a book for nine-year-olds, nine-year-old girls specifically.

(45:20):
And Amelia is nine when we start out.
But this is a case like Harry Potter, where the audience grew with the character, because time passes fairly realistically.
And so I'm thinking by the time this book is over, these books are over, those nine-year-olds are probably 15, 16, and so is Amelia.

(45:42):
And the humor gets more and more sophisticated.

Harold (45:47):
Yeah.
Except today, now that the books have been out for so long, the nine-year-old is nine years old when they get to-

SPEAKER_6 (45:53):
Yeah, that's something you just cannot avoid.

Michael (45:56):
Yeah.
But it's so interesting watching the strip evolve and get really postmodern because it is very postmodern.
So I don't think nine-year-olds would have picked up on that.
But as it gets more postmodern and really innovative in storytelling more than most comics I've ever read.

(46:17):
The imagination is wide open here, the way Jimmy's approaching these pages.
So it's not just stories, it's just all kinds of techniques you've never seen before in a comic.
Anyway, it's great stuff and gets better and better.
It starts great and then it gets really great and it keeps getting better.
So I know it's just coming up on an anniversary.

(46:41):
But since I'm reading it now, I hope to be done by the time the anniversary.
When is the anniversary, Jimmy?

SPEAKER_6 (46:46):
Officially.

Jimmy (46:48):
Well, the way we're celebrating it, we're celebrating it all year, but April 7th will be when the new editions are out.
So that's officially when we're going to make our big like, yay.

Michael (46:57):
Okay.
Well, I should be done by then.

SPEAKER_6 (47:02):
Yeah.

Michael (47:02):
So if you want to be a part of the in-crowd, go read the whole thing.
And then you'll know what's going on.

Liz (47:10):
And I know that many of our listeners were originally Amelia Ruhl's fans at nine years old.
And they've joined us.
So shout out to all of them.

Jimmy (47:22):
Yeah, they're all now.

Liz (47:24):
Shaili and Joshua.

Harold (47:27):
Thank you.
Yeah, I'll second that for Amelia.
You know, I've been super blessed in having gotten to work with the one person in modern comics that I wanted to work with most, which was Jimmy Gownley.
That's how we became friends.
I just appreciated his work.
He was doing Shades of Grey the time I met him.

(47:49):
And then not too long after that, he was doing Amelia.
And I'll second what Michael is saying.
One of the things that I think got out of hand around the time we were doing comics was where the artists were breaking away the boundaries of the six panel comic book or in the way they were cleanly made to flow just by having six same size panels like an Archie comic.

(48:17):
And Jimmy started to really play with the page.
But the thing I admired about it, so many artists did that and they were lovely to look at.
But if you tried to read the stories, they were impossible because they didn't know how to direct your eye.
And that is something we talked about in Peanuts of how Schulz is able to be so clear.

(48:39):
There's nothing between you and the story.
He is flowing you through these panels.
There's nothing to make you stumble.
And as ambitious as what Jimmy is doing in these comics, you don't get lost.
And I don't know of another artist who is as ambitious in the layouts as he is and takes you through those pages without you getting stuck.

(49:04):
And that's super hard to do.
Well, thank you, guys.
It's very nice of both of you.

Michael (49:10):
Yeah.

Jimmy (49:11):
I'm embarrassed now.
I'm hoping Liz has something that's not Amelia Rolls, but thank you both.
Liz, do you have something to recommend?

Liz (49:19):
I'm sorry.
I'm still reading the book I recommended last week.
So, still liking it.

Michael (49:25):
Well, it's still good.

Harold (49:27):
Yeah.
And so, we're not just praising stuff within.
I have been reading Working with Walt, Interviews with Disney by Don Perry.
He interviewed people, I think, the late 70s, early 80s, and beyond, who worked with Walt Disney directly, and some really, really good conversations.

(49:48):
And yet, there's at least two volumes out, and each volume is an interview with maybe a dozen people.
And it gives you this really interesting, well-rounded picture of what it was like to work at the Disney Studio, what made it as special as it was, and then everybody just kind of trying to dissect what it was about working there that was so unique.

(50:15):
And it's just fascinating to see because I'm in awe of somebody who can wrangle artists.
We are certain that it's like hurting cats, right?
And to see what he did and that people, you know, respected him enough to let him lead where he wanted to lead that led to some amazing advances in the world of animation.

(50:44):
And then beyond that, of course, in all the other things he did.
After animation was kind of no longer his main interest.
But he's a fascinating figure and I recommend those if you're interested in kind of understanding a very unique part of American culture and popular culture.

(51:06):
Just, you know, how he, how did he possibly accomplish all the things he did in his lifetime?

Jimmy (51:11):
That's a good pick.
And I got a podcast for you guys.
And speaking of our mailbox, super listener Joshua Stauffer, who we just heard from has a new podcast out and it's called Kids TV and Me, where he looks at all the variety of different kids television shows that affected him as he was growing up.

(51:33):
And he's a cartoonist in his own right now.
So give that a listen.

Harold (51:38):
It's pretty cool.

Jimmy (51:39):
Kids TV and Me by Joshua Stauffer.

Liz (51:42):
I'll put the link in the show notes.

Jimmy (51:43):
Awesome.
That's what we got.
Go out and read those Amelia Rules books.
I like this.
This is a great segment.
Great segment.

Michael (51:51):
Yeah, Jimmy, go read them.

Jimmy (51:53):
I'm going to try someday.

Liz (51:55):
Oh, oh, wait a second.
I have something to add to the recommendations.
Michael, do you want to talk about the Peanuts portraits or is it not time yet?

Michael (52:05):
Well, I have one up.
The little background music which comes behind the strips, you probably don't pay any attention to it.
But anyway, it's pieces of music I do like.

Liz (52:19):
He did write.

Michael (52:20):
Yeah.
Anyway, I'm orchestrating them and I'm going to have an album of Peanuts portraits of the fully orchestrated themes for all the characters.
But I did put a little Woodstock thing up.
So we can put that in the show notes.
You want to hear my musical portrait of Woodstock.

Liz (52:40):
Yeah.
So the music that we use underneath when Jimmy reads the strips are the piano versions.
I asked Michael because he's been working on orchestration.
So I suggested that he do orchestra versions of these.
He has started doing it and the Woodstock one is really sweet.

Jimmy (53:00):
Fantastic.
Definitely give that a listen.

Liz (53:03):
All righty.

Jimmy (53:03):
All right.
Should we head back to the old comic strips?

Michael (53:06):
Why not?
We're tired of talking about ourselves.

Jimmy (53:12):
Never.
All right.
Here we go.
January 13th, 1970.
Lucy and Charlie Brown are out for a walk in the cold winter.
Charlie Brown says, I hate having so many faults.
They stop and he says, I'd really like to be a better person.
Then at the Thinkin Wall, he continues, I wonder what it would be like to know that you were perfect.

(53:34):
Then Lucy rests her head in her hands and says, take it from me.
It's a great feeling.

Michael (53:42):
I believe she believes that.

Jimmy (53:43):
Oh, absolutely.

Michael (53:45):
But she doesn't seem to be a very happy person.

Harold (53:47):
No.

Jimmy (53:48):
What is the dichotomy there?

Michael (53:51):
She's not getting any satisfaction from being perfect.
Being perfect because everyone else is so imperfect.

Harold (53:57):
Yep.

Jimmy (54:01):
Lucy definitely retains some only childness from her early days.

Harold (54:10):
Are you saying you relate to this?

Jimmy (54:12):
Well, after that break where we just talked about how wonderful I am, yes, I do exactly like that.
By the way, your bribe money is in the mail.

Harold (54:28):
It's a nice little strip with a little birch tree with its leaves gone.
It looks like it's late fall or maybe early winter there, wearing their hats and their coats, walking up to the Thinkin Wall.
He really puts some detail into the second panel, and it gives you just that sense of the cold, crisp air and just with a few lines as he's so good at doing.

(54:54):
I think he liked this strip.
Yeah.
I think he wanted to pull you into the space of it for some reason.
For this one, it's really about Lucy, Lucy's opinion of herself.

Liz (55:09):
Do you suppose Schulz ever thought of himself as I'm perfect or that he explored feelings like, take it from me, it's a great feeling?

Jimmy (55:20):
Yeah.
There's no way he didn't know he was the best cartoonist in the world.
I mean, it would be impossible to not pick up on the subtle clues that what you're doing is working for people.

Harold (55:34):
Yeah, we do see it in stories that we've been told about him among his fellow cartoonists or attending an event.
It's like to him, like he went to a National Cartoonist Society event and Schulz, you just, from the stories, you get the feeling like he's like, this is my domain and my opinions matter here.

(55:57):
And I will speak them clearly and sometimes forcefully because I feel I have the right to do so.
So I think that kind of, that luciness kind of comes out in the area that he focused his life on.
And yeah, he's quite confident of who he is in that world.

Jimmy (56:19):
One thing I wish I could steal from Schulz that, I don't know if it works outside of Peanuts, but like panel and where they're just floating above the ground.
And I'm reading that as them bouncing along the ground.
But if you draw, if I drew that, or at least I'll just say if I drew that, it would look like they were floating above the ground.

Harold (56:42):
And I don't know why.

Jimmy (56:44):
I don't know if it has to do with their body shape, if it has to do with the exact distance they're left off the ground.
I'm not sure what makes it were.

Liz (56:56):
I think it's knowing that it's peanuts.
I think that if somebody who had never seen peanuts before looked at this, it would look like they were floating off the ground.

Harold (57:04):
Would it?

Liz (57:06):
I think so.

Jimmy (57:06):
What do you guys think?

Harold (57:08):
I think that what it makes me think of is the story about, was it Edward Muybridge who did the-
Yeah, the horse.
The photographs in the pre-film, motion picture film era where he set tripwires up to set off cameras taking pictures of a horse in motion.
The story behind it is that that came out of a bat.

(57:30):
There was one guy who said, there is no time when a horse's legs in a gallop, there's at least one leg always on the ground.
There was other guys, you're crazy.
There is of course a period when there's not a hoof on the ground.
They apparently hired Muybridge to do this crazy contraption, and he essentially made with still cameras, was able to make all of these images of the motion of a horse.

(58:02):
Then that started him off on capturing all sorts of things in photos that represented motion.
Of course, the person was right.
There's a time when the horse's legs are not on the ground, and that makes me think of these little floating Charlie Brown and Lucy drawings, where there's all this white space around them with a black ground beneath them, but with white in between.

(58:33):
The design is just so gorgeous.
I'm looking at this one on my phone, and I just am in awe of Schulz.
I've said this before, but you can shrink those panels down to the point where they're like 0.4 inches square, and you can read it.
It's amazing.

Jimmy (58:56):
Coming up on this next one here, actually, Liz, now that I know that you can search things so quickly.
We're coming up here on January 3rd, 1967, but I'll read it and then I'll tell you what I want us to look up.
Here we are, January 3rd, 1967.
Linus and Lucy are out for a walk, and Linus says, why do I have to get a measles shot?

(59:21):
Then he throws his arms in the air and says, whoever worries about measles, what's a little rubeola among friends?
Lucy says, your stupidity is appalling.
Then she walks away leaving Linus alone, and he says, most stupidity is.
Now, before we go to into it, there's another one like this, where I believe Lucy says something like, your lack of medical knowledge is appalling.

Liz (59:54):
Okay, I'll search on appalling.

Jimmy (59:56):
Yeah, I just want to see if, because I couldn't find it again.
And my first thought was maybe Linus was mimicking her, but now I'm thinking maybe it was just her saying it.

Liz (01:00:07):
She said, okay, I have a question.
What would happen if there were a beautiful and highly intelligent child up in heaven waiting to be born and his or her parents decided that two children they already had were enough?
Lucy says, your ignorance of theology and medicine is appalling.

Jimmy (01:00:23):
Now, when did that come out?

Liz (01:00:24):
In 1970, July 20th, 1970.

Jimmy (01:00:26):
Okay, so it's a pretty big distance, but Lucy finds Linus' ignorance about many topics apparently appalling.

Michael (01:00:34):
True.
This reinforces my belief that the word stupid is the funniest word in the English language.

Jimmy (01:00:40):
It's a good word.

SPEAKER_2 (01:00:41):
It really is funny.

Liz (01:00:42):
Appalling is the second funniest?

Harold (01:00:45):
Rubiola.

Jimmy (01:00:47):
Okay, so that's my second question.
Is he spelling it wrong on purpose?

Liz (01:00:52):
Maybe Rubiola meant something in 1967.

Jimmy (01:00:56):
Oh, I don't think.
I think he just spelled it wrong.
My first comic I ever did, I made a Star Trek reference and I never watched Star Trek.
So I called the bad guys the Ramoleons.
I think it's like that.

Harold (01:01:12):
I was just thinking since it's in quotes in the strip that Schulz knows he's misspelling it and he's telling us.

Liz (01:01:18):
No, it's not.
I think that we say Rubiola, commonly known as measles.

Jimmy (01:01:26):
Yeah, it's different.
It's Rubiola as measles, and Rubella is German measles.
You don't want to get Rubella by the way.

Harold (01:01:33):
Why do you think it's in quotes given that I can't imagine him putting measles in quotes?

Jimmy (01:01:41):
But he does do that.

Harold (01:01:42):
That's interesting.
But you're right.

Jimmy (01:01:44):
He does occasionally put unnecessary quotation marks just for humor.
This is crazy.
I've always heard it as measles and Rubella.

Harold (01:01:55):
Yeah.
I was thrown because it was in quotes.
I was thinking, oh, he's got to be referring to Rubella.
But no.

Liz (01:02:02):
See, we've lost a lot of knowledge about measles over the years.

Jimmy (01:02:07):
Yep.
It's like in the 12 years past in Star Wars, and people are like, what are the Jedi?
I never heard of it.
And then people go, that could never happen.
Oh, yeah, it could.
Well, I'll give you an example.
Good old Joshua Stauffer, who you were talking about.

(01:02:28):
I posted something on Instagram.
It was a drawing of Tanner with the smashed guitar.
And he's like, oh, I hope she played it so much that it just fell apart.
It's like, what happened?
And I'm like, are you too young to remember when Rockstar smashed guitars?
And he's like, what?

Liz (01:02:47):
Oh, Josh.

Jimmy (01:02:51):
Yeah, I mean, one group thinks, oh, well, this will be remembered and understood forever.
It goes away real quick.

SPEAKER_6 (01:02:59):
Yep.

Jimmy (01:03:00):
All right.
So we're going with a little sequence here that really, I think, shows Lucy and Linus together in their advanced sibling status.
You know, they're past being toddlers.
They're well into their routine.

Harold (01:03:14):
And here we go.

Jimmy (01:03:15):
This is January 7th, 8th and 9th of 1964.
January 7th, they're hanging out in the Van Pelt household, Linus in classic thumb and blanket position.
Lucy comes up pleasantly and says, You're not a good brother at all.
She spreads her arms and goes, You're not a good brother because you don't work at it.

(01:03:36):
If you're going to be a good brother, you've got to work at it and work at it.
And then Linus says, where's the practice tea?

Harold (01:03:44):
Sarcasm.

Jimmy (01:03:48):
Now, let's do the three in a row and we'll talk about it at the end.
January 8th, they're out walking now and Linus says, Perhaps I could be a better brother to you if you'd tell me what a good brother should be like.
All right, I'd be glad to.
A good brother should be kind and considerate.
The welfare of his sister or sisters should always be one of his chief concerns.

(01:04:12):
He should be honest, thrifty and sincere.
Now, by the way, it's completely turned to night.
Linus is on the ground waiting, leaned up against a rock.
Lucy continues, entrusting and faithful and courageous and bold and patient and generous.
And just Linus says, good grief.
All right, let's just discuss those two and then we'll do the last one.

(01:04:35):
So this is, to me, Lucy becoming completely integrated.
Her work life of criticizing people and her home life of being a big sister have really come together here for poor Linus.

Harold (01:04:51):
Do you think Lucy works and works and works at being a good big sister?
She certainly engages in the role with relish.

Jimmy (01:05:00):
But she thinks she's perfect, so she doesn't think she has to work at it, I would imagine.

Liz (01:05:05):
What is the connection, do you suppose, between criticism and advice for people in the psychiatry booth?

Harold (01:05:16):
Five cents.

Jimmy (01:05:19):
That's right.
But this is criticism because he doesn't have to pay for it.
If he goes to the stand, he has to pay five cents and get the advice.
It's interesting that thrifty is the number two thing a big brother should be for Lucy.

Liz (01:05:35):
Well, it's like Boy Scouts, trustworthy, loyal, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.

Jimmy (01:05:41):
Thrifty is in the Boy Scouts code?

Harold (01:05:43):
Yeah.
Well, it's also telling that Lucy, giving her definition, it's the welfare of his sister or sisters.
You couldn't be a brother to a brother.

Jimmy (01:05:55):
Yeah, right?
No, can't be done, right?
It's only for your sisters.

Harold (01:05:58):
Yeah.

Jimmy (01:06:01):
Were you two all of these things to your older sisters?

Michael (01:06:06):
Yeah, right.

Jimmy (01:06:09):
All right, January 9th.
Now, Lucy is watching TV, sitting on the floor in the living room.
Linus comes in holding a bowl of something and Lucy says, what's this?
And Linus says, a dish of ice cream.
I brought it to you in order that your stay here on earth might be more pleasant.
Lucy is delighted by this and says, well, thank you.

(01:06:30):
You're a good brother.
And then Linus walks away very happy and content.
And he thinks, or he says to himself, happiness is a compliment from your sister.

Michael (01:06:41):
I don't like this at all.

Jimmy (01:06:43):
All right, lay it on us.
She needs to be overthrown.

Michael (01:06:48):
Really?
Except she can beat him up.

Jimmy (01:06:52):
I'm going to guess Harold disagrees.

Harold (01:06:55):
Well, it depends on what is our concern.
Is it what Linus gets out of it, what Lucy gets out of it, what they get out of it as siblings?
Seems like a pretty good situation here.
He did it on his own volition and makes her happy, and he walks away happy.

Michael (01:07:13):
When we're not sluice-sluice.

Liz (01:07:18):
Again, welcome to my world.

Jimmy (01:07:21):
Ice cream, at least Lucy won.

Harold (01:07:24):
It's a nice big dish.
It looks like there's three scoops in there.

Jimmy (01:07:26):
Yeah, it looks real good.
I got to tell you.

Harold (01:07:30):
I think unfortunately, it is probably seal test.

Liz (01:07:34):
What's wrong with seal test?

Harold (01:07:36):
It's like ice crystals.

Liz (01:07:37):
I don't know.
It wasn't in 1964.
It was pretty good.
They had butter almond.

Harold (01:07:42):
Yeah, well, I'm grateful to them for having sponsored Kukla Fram and Olly.

Jimmy (01:07:48):
Turkey Hill, Pennsylvania, all the way.
We're going to go back in time a little bit here.
January 26, 1961.
A great first panel of Charlie Brown and Linus sitting on an armchair, but because it's almost Little Folk's style, they're both using it almost like a bed.

(01:08:09):
They're lying on it sideways.
And Linus says to Charlie Brown, When I get big, I'm going to be a doctor.
Then he continues, No, I'm going to be more than a doctor.
I'm going to be a great doctor.
And he stands up and he says, I want to rise to the greatest height of all.
I want to write a syndicated medical column.

Michael (01:08:31):
Of course, nowadays, the greatest height of all is to do a podcast on medical advice.
Exactly.

Harold (01:08:40):
This is a little shout out to all the editors, all the newspaper editors.

Jimmy (01:08:44):
Now, do you think he knew someone who wrote a syndicated medical column?
I could see someone else.
I'm sure United Features had one, right?
January 19th, 1964.
This is a Sunday.
Charlie Brown greets Linus, Linus' front doorstep.
And Linus says, I'll bet you think this is my lunch.
Well, it isn't.

(01:09:05):
And Linus is holding up a paper sack.
And they continue to walk.
And Linus says, no, sir, boy.
I have something in this bag that will guarantee my getting an A in science.
Charlie Brown says, let's see.
And Linus takes out a little round object.
And Linus says, it's a piece of wood that is perfectly round.
I found it myself.

(01:09:25):
Linus continues.
Can you imagine the millions of years it took for the elements to mold it into this shape?
Then Charlie Brown hands it back to Linus.
And Linus says, it makes you think, doesn't it?
And then Charlie Brown says, it makes me think you found an old croquet ball.
And Linus is shocked by this.
And he angrily throws it away and yells, I hate phonies.

(01:09:52):
Now, the reason I picked this one is because it brings us back to our original premise of this whole season, which is they are very Salinger-esque characters.
And if there's one thing a Salinger character hates, it's phonies.

Liz (01:10:08):
Amen.

Jimmy (01:10:11):
Very Catcher in the Rye for Linus.

Liz (01:10:14):
That reminds me of the Ivan Brunetti synthesis of Catcher in the Rye, which was that one panel about phonies.

Michael (01:10:25):
Cool.
I didn't get that reference.
That's definitely cool.

Harold (01:10:30):
You think this is a direct reference?
I don't think so.

Liz (01:10:33):
Well.

Harold (01:10:33):
I mean, maybe, but I don't think so.

Liz (01:10:36):
When was Catcher in the Rye written?

Jimmy (01:10:38):
Forty-six or seven.

Michael (01:10:39):
Yeah, but it was huge in the sixties.

Jimmy (01:10:42):
Yeah.

Harold (01:10:43):
It seems like some of the Schulz would have.
Oh, I would have said so.

Jimmy (01:10:47):
There's so many.
I mean, he's almost a direct contemporary of Salingers, and so many of their themes kind of intersect.

Michael (01:10:57):
Yep.
Time for a mashup.

Liz (01:10:58):
Let's do it.

Jimmy (01:11:01):
Catcher in the pumpkin patch.
All right.
So if you guys want to see how Catcher in the Pumpkin Patch turns out, there's a couple of different ways you could do it.
The first thing you got to do is sign up for that old, great Peanuts reread over on unpackingpeanuts.com.
That will get you one email a month that will allow us to tell you what we're going to be covering so you can follow along with us.

(01:11:25):
You can also reach out to us through our hotline where it is 717-219-4162.
You can leave a voicemail or leave a text message.
And if you leave a text message, remember to identify yourself so I can give you a shout out on the show.
And of course, on social media, we are at Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads and at Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky and YouTube.

(01:11:52):
Remember, all of us are cartoonists, so please, if you want to support the show, you can think about buying one of our books.
The link will be in the description.
So I guess that brings us to the end of another episode.
We'll be back in two weeks for our big anniversary episode, which is really exciting.
How many episodes have we done, Liz?

Liz (01:12:13):
I think it's 188, 89, something like that.

Jimmy (01:12:17):
And we're coming up on what, our four-year anniversary?

Liz (01:12:20):
Yeah, it'll be four years on March 15th, I think.

Jimmy (01:12:24):
That is absolutely insane.
I can't believe we made it this far.
Thank you all for hanging out with us.
It just makes it so fun.

Harold (01:12:33):
Yes, thank you.

Jimmy (01:12:34):
So for Michael, Harold, and Liz, this is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.

Liz (01:12:38):
Yes, be of good cheer.
Unpacking Peanuts is copyrighted by Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner.
Produced and edited by Liz Sumner.
Music by Michael Cohen.
Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark.
For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads.

(01:12:59):
Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue Sky, and YouTube.
For more about Jimmy, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingpeanuts.com.
Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.

Michael (01:13:11):
They're just these old people who haven't liked you.