Ep. 14: The importance of civilian control of the military & our Selective Service

What would happen if you didn't register for the Selective Service, aka "the draft?" In this episode, Dr. Mike O'Hanlon of the Brookings Institution joins Ellen and Joe for a quick civics lesson on why it's important to have civilian control of the military. Next, Navy veteran Joel C. Spangenberg, the acting director of the Selective Service System, discusses how his agency contributes to our national defense. Lastly, Marine Corps Combat veteran and executive director of The Mission Continues, Marybeth Bruggeman, discusses how veterans and their families can serve their communities in meaningful ways.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_04 (00:00):
Yes, you know, ultimately the goal for us is to
ensure people register.
That's uh that's number one.
Um and you know, I I think someof the ramifications that people
face if they don't register, Ithink come in the what we would
call the benefits space oropportunity space.
So for instance, if you don'tregister, you may not be able to

(00:20):
get a federal job, right?
That's that's a major challenge.
And a number of states have verysimilar laws on the books where
if you don't register, you maynot be able to get a state job.
Um, you know, and I'll talkabout this hopefully a little in
a little more detail later on.
But uh one of the things thathappens uh at the state level
too is uh there's a connectionoften between uh uh a man being

(00:43):
registered and their ability toget state level uh student aid.
Um so that's that that's anotherthing, and also U.S.
citizenship.
So people who are uh immigrantshere, they have to register too,
and uh you know it could causedelays if they fail to register.
So those are some examples thatwe see.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Welcome back to the Vetted Conversations Podcast,
where we delve into thefoundations, workings, and
current challenges to theAmerican way of self-governance.

SPEAKER_03 (01:10):
In today's confusing world, it's more important than
ever to understand how ourgovernment works and how we as
citizens can activelyparticipate in the discussion to
safeguard our liberties andcontinued freedom.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
Our mission is to ensure you, our listeners, have
the knowledge and insightsneeded to become more informed
and engaged citizens and activemembers of your communities.
So let's get into it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
Hello, listeners.
Part of our mission here is tohelp increase our collective
understanding of civics, namelyour rights and perhaps more
importantly, ourresponsibilities to each other
as citizens in a free society.
To do this, we're bringing innational experts on civics and
our military to talk to you andanswer our questions.
So joining us today is Dr.
Michael O'Hanlon.
Dr.
O'Hanlon is a senior fellow anddirector of research in foreign

(01:58):
policy at the BrookingsInstitution, where he
specializes in U.S.
defense strategy, U.S.
military force, and Americannational security policy.
He's been a friend of We theVeterans of Military Families
for quite some time, and we'rehappy to have you here today,
Mike.

SPEAKER_02 (02:11):
Hey, Joe and Ellen, nice to be with you.

SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
Thanks so much.
Well, so we're excited to askyou a few questions that I think
you know all military familiesveterans uh really are curious
about and and should understand.
So the first one is why is itimportant to have civilian
control of the military in ademocracy like ours?

SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
It's an excellent question.
And it really is worth askingjust that basic, straightforward
way, because we get so used tosaying we have it that it almost
becomes instinctual orreflexive.
But we should think about why.
And the main reason is, ofcourse, that military officers
and enlisted personnel areprofessionals who are supposed

(02:54):
to do what the nation asked themto do, but they aren't really
supposed to be making decisionsbecause they are not directly
accountable to the voter.
So they are professionals.
And civilian leaders arepoliticians who are elected by
the voter and who are alsodirectly constrained by a system
of checks and balances.
There is no system of checks andbalances within the military.

(03:18):
We don't have the Army fightingthe Marine Corps, except maybe
on the occasional softball fieldor gridiron and uh and in the
trash talk, you know, of barsand uh and restaurants.
But the the idea here is that ademocracy is a system where
voters select their leaders andwhere there is a system of
protection of individual rightsand checks and balances on each

(03:39):
branch of government, and thatis all handled through voting
and also through a professionalcourt system.
So, in a sense, of the threemain branches of government, the
military is most similar to thecourts in that it's supposed to
be professional and do technicalthings, whereas it is primarily
the congressional executivebranches that are accountable to

(04:01):
the voter and therefore thathave powers in the Constitution
to raise and equip armies andnavies and declare war.
So it really comes down to thesystem of voting and majority
rule, but with checks andbalances and protection of
individual rights, all that ishandled outside of the uniform
military, and therefore theuniform military should not be

(04:22):
making decisions that representthe will of the voter.

SPEAKER_01 (04:27):
All right, thank you.
That was a great answer.

SPEAKER_03 (04:32):
The word civics means a lot of different things
to a lot of people.
How do we define it?
Well, to us, it's all aboutunderstanding our rights, and
perhaps even more important, ourresponsibilities to each other
as citizens.
Democracy is not a spectatorsport, and every citizen needs
to do their part.
That and also understanding howour government is designed to
work.
There are two main fundamentalduties of any legitimate

(04:55):
government, and the first is toprotect the people from attack,
and the second is to punish theunjust.
Everything after that isnegotiable.
Which leads us to today's topic,the Selective Service.
The Selective Serviceestablished in 1917 has been the
cornerstone of American defensestrategy during times of
national emergency.
It's a system through which ourgovernment can conscript
citizens into military service,ensuring our nation's armed

(05:17):
forces remain ready to supportand defend our Constitution and
the American way of life.
Conscription, otherwise known asa draft.
But what exactly is a selectiveservice and how does it work?
Though the Selective Service, aswe know it today, was not in
use, the United States has had asystem of conscription since the
Revolutionary War.
It was used in World War I,World War II, during the Korean

(05:38):
War, the Cold War, and the warin Vietnam.
Registration was suspended in1975 and the system has gone
into what they call deepstandby.
But beginning in 1979, a seriesof revitalization efforts were
begun to upgrade the system'scapability for rapid
mobilization during anemergency.
Joining us today to explore thistopic further is the acting
director of the SelectiveService, the Honorable Joel

(05:59):
Spangenberg.

unknown (06:00):
Mr.

SPEAKER_03 (06:00):
Spangenberg is a U.S.
Naval Academy graduate andveteran of the U.S.
Navy, where he served as asurface warfare officer,
deploying in support ofOperation Enduring Freedom
following the 9-11 terroristattacks.
He also served on the aircraftcarrier of the USS Abraham
Lincoln and deployed to theWestern Pacific.
He has a long and distinguishedcareer in public service, and in
his current role, he leadsNational Conscription Readiness,

(06:21):
overseeing the NationalHeadquarters Data Management
Center, and three regionalheadquarters consisting of civil
servants, military reservists,and over 8,000 volunteers.
Acting Director Spangenberg,welcome.

SPEAKER_04 (06:33):
Hey, uh, good morning, and uh thank you for uh
allowing me to join you today.
It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 (06:39):
Absolutely.
Um we're we're uh super excitedto have you here today.
The Selective Service, I think,is an often misunderstood uh
entity within the United Statesgovernment, and one of our
missions is to kind of clear upsome uh misconceptions people
might have about it.
We just had uh folks who foundedthe Department of Homeland
Security on a few weeks back tohelp do some myth busting around

(07:00):
there as well.
So, what can you tell us aboutthe Selective Service System and
its makeup and mission?

SPEAKER_04 (07:06):
Okay, well, the Selective Service System uh
first off is an uh independentfederal agency, and uh we
believe we've been adistinguished part of our
nation's history spanning erasof conflict and peace.
Um, and it's important, I think,to also frame what else I'd like
to share with you today in thesense that we are a readiness
organization at our very core.

(07:28):
So uh we see ourselves as aunique element of the nation's
national security capabilities.
We represent an additional tierof support to our all to our
nation's all-volunteer force.
Um, and right now uh we actuallyare operating what we call an
active standby status, which isour peacetime posture, with

(07:48):
registration for young menacross America being our most
visible activity.
Um, and just for everybody'sawareness, registration is an
important civic responsibilityin our nation.
While we hope that a return toconscription does not occur, uh
you never know what the futuremay hold.
Um state of readiness if thepresident and Congress

(08:12):
reinstated a draft in responseto a national emergency, such as
a major conflict.

SPEAKER_01 (08:18):
So to clarify, so we we haven't had a draft in more
than 50 years, but there's stilla requirement for um young men
to register with the SelectiveService.
And by doing that, they are sortof signed up on one of these
state level lists, and and thethe teams that you oversee are

(08:40):
ready to train them if neededand sort of get them um ready to
serve.
Is that is that the general uhoverview?

SPEAKER_04 (08:47):
So uh our um we have a board member program.
I think that's what we'retalking about here, and yes, we
actually uh work to uh recruitthem so we have enough of them
in the event of uh if there wasever a return to conscription.
And it's also important to notethat um our board members are to
reflect the composition of thatcommunity to the greatest uh

(09:09):
extent possible.
So we work to make sure that uhthey reflect that community.
Um, and it's important for us tocontinue to train them uh so
that they are ready if thereever was a national emergency.
A big part of selective servicesystem is to be as fair and
equitable as possible.
And even in our regulations, uhit's it's captured there that

(09:32):
we're supposed to be working tohave our boards representing uh
communities nationwide.
And uh, you know, we've seenthat uh we have a construct
where our boards would at leastbe at the county level, but we
also have the ability to makethem multi-county or have more
than one board per county.
Um so you know, so you canimagine a very uh large city

(09:55):
which might also be within acounty, might have multiple
boards.
So uh that's how we work thatconstruct, and we have to
continuously recruit and trainto make sure that that system of
volunteers is always ready togo.
What other top priorities do youhave currently?
Uh great question.
So, one of the uh things thatwe've been looking at,
especially uh since 2022, and II joined the agency in August

(10:19):
2022, and I had been the chiefof staff here before during the
um Obama administration.
But uh we made a majortransition in our focus as an
agency to bring us into greateralignment with the national
security strategy, nationaldefense strategy, the
president's management agenda,and the congressional direction
found in the fiscal year 2022National Defense Authorization

(10:42):
Act, in particular therequirement for the Department
of Defense to include us in arecurring national mobilization
exercise.
So we were uh we were looking upand out to see what we really
had to make sure we would needto align to so we can operate
this agency in the best waypossible.
Most people interact with us ascustomers, if you will, as it
relates to registration.

(11:04):
So we very much stay attuned tothat through things like our
call center and our uh onlinetools.

SPEAKER_03 (11:09):
Yeah, and that's awesome.
With registration, I mean, I Ithink one important thing for
young Americans to understand isthat this is a law.
Like it if you don't register,it can have pretty significant
limiting factors on your future.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that?
Like um, one, it's important tocomply with with the law, but

(11:32):
like what happens if if18-year-old Joe Plumzer decides,
like, oh, I'm not gonna do this,right?

SPEAKER_04 (11:38):
Yes, you know, ultimately the goal for us is to
ensure people register.
That's uh that's number one.
Um and you know, I I think someof the ramifications that people
face if they don't register, Ithink come in the what we would
call the benefits space oropportunity space.
So for instance, if you don'tregister, you may not be able to
get a federal job, right?

(12:00):
That's that's a major challenge.
And a number of states have verysimilar laws on the books where
if you don't register, you maynot be able to get a state job.
Um, you know, and I'll talkabout this hopefully a little in
a little more detail later on,but uh one of the things that
happens uh at the state leveltoo is uh there's a connection
often often between uh uh a manbeing registered and their

(12:22):
ability to get state level uhstudent aid.
Um so that's that that's anotherthing, and also U.S.
citizenship.
So people who are uh immigrantshere, they have to register too.
And um, you know, it could causedelays if they fail to register.
So those are some examples thatwe see.

SPEAKER_01 (12:39):
Okay.
So so considering all of that,and and sort of, you know, you
guys have modernized, you'rereaching people where they are
online, your systems are kind ofyou know getting up to date with
technology, which is which isall incredible.
Um, so how how what's the bigpicture?
Like what how's registrationgoing across America?
Have you seen a dip inregistration rates despite all

(13:00):
this incredible work that you'retrying to do?
You know, what's what's sort ofthe general status of
registration right now?

SPEAKER_04 (13:06):
Okay, that that's a great uh question.
And I think this is a key thingfor us too, is you know, we've
been focusing on readiness, butregistration is definitely a
foundational thing that we carequite a bit about.
So we we try to keep uhregistration rates as high as
possible.
So until uh recently, we youknow we certainly were achieving
around a 90% registration rateor higher, so for the aggregate

(13:30):
18 to 25 year old population.
So uh we started to see a majorchallenge emerge in late 2020,
and it wasn't simply COVIDimpacts, uh, but it was
something else.
And let me tell you about that.
It was the FAFSA SimplificationAct of that year.
Um, and that actually delinkedmen's eligibility to receive
federal student aid fromregistration.

(13:52):
In recent years, that FAFSA kindof uh side of things, that
Department of EducationConnection, represented
approximately 20% of the annualSelective Service registration.
So, you know, young men whenthey were filling out their
FAFSA forms, they had an optionto register with Selective
Service.
That started to go away.
Um, so this resulted in a 5%decrease in registration rates

(14:15):
across America as we went from89% in calendar year 2021 to 84%
in 2022 for the 18 to 25 yearold population.
That is one of our largestdecreases in our uh agencies'
history.
So that's uh that's been a realstruggle.
That had a big impact.
And preliminary preliminary datafor 2023 indicates we are going

(14:37):
to have yet another decreaseinto the low 80% range.
Wow.
This has been a dramatic but notfully unexpected decrease.
Now, um that's not like we'rejust sitting here and watching
it happen.
I don't want uh you or thelisteners to think that.
We've actually been very activein the face of this challenge.
We've expanded our publicaffairs and outreach efforts

(14:57):
with federal, state, territory,tribal, and local government
partners, and also several othergroups, like I mentioned, those
influencer type groups andassociations nationwide, and we
developed new marketing anddigital content to reach Gen Z
and their influencers.
And we're using data analyticsand metrics to help identify

(15:18):
effective ways to reach keyaudiences and influencers around
the country.

SPEAKER_03 (15:23):
I'm curious, like if I've got a social security
number and the government knowsI exist, um, why do I need to
register?
Like, shouldn't that beautomatic?
Uh could you tell us like likewhat's what's the rationale
behind actually taking the stepto register?

SPEAKER_04 (15:39):
Yeah, so that actually goes back to the
Military Selective Service Act.
And um uh much of that was puttogether in the late 1940s.
Um so there were different modesand ways of doing things back
then.
And uh encapsulated in that uhuh uh that Military Selective
Service Act and kind of the theapproach there was that men are

(16:03):
to present themselves uh forregistration.
So um, you know, you can imaginea time where people would go to
the post office to do it orother places.
So, but uh you're you'rementioning something that kind
of does open people's eyes tolike, hey, maybe there's a
better way to do things in thisday and age.
Uh so what what you're whatyou've actually proposed to me,

(16:26):
my answer is yes, there is a wayto do that.
Um so and I would actually kindof link to something else that I
think it's important for forpeople to know too about
registration.
Because uh, so for instance, wehave uh driver's license
legislation which links men'sregistration with their
obtaining a driver's license oridea as and that's actually or

(16:48):
an ID, and that's a verysuccessful driver of uh people
getting registered.
So we have that in 45 uh statesand territories, and that's
that's been really successfulfor us.
So in a number of places, it'sactually an automatic linkage.
Some places it's optional,whether you opt out or opt in.
Uh so we see that sort ofconnection.

(17:10):
Now, we've actually beenthinking about how we can start
to get more into this.
So to counter the dramatic uhdecrease in registration rates
due to the FAFSA SimplificationAct, um, I did ask the team to
develop a legislative approachthat would increase our
registration rates to muchhigher numbers nationally,
leveraging an automaticapproach.

(17:30):
So one of our goals is toeverybody who should be
registered, they need to getregistered.
So we want to work towards that.
So uh we'd love to be, you know,up close to 100%, ideally, as
close as possible.

SPEAKER_01 (17:42):
I want to go back to a quick question because you you
you mentioned it.
Um we were gonna askspecifically, of course, I was
gonna ask specifically aboutsort of the you know what the
Selective Service position is onum all the different legislative
proposals to expand registrationto women and and people of all
genders.
Um obviously this has been a uhyou know a big debate in
America, but I'm curious, youknow, where are we, where are

(18:04):
you guys as an agency and whereare we as a country on the idea
of opening this up to arequirement for all people?

SPEAKER_04 (18:11):
Um that is uh a very uh important question, and
that's one of the top questionswe get as an agency.
So thank you for bringing thatup.
And I and I do want to give somecredit too to the uh there was a
national commission uh thatlooked at military, national,
and public service in recentyears.
And his report uh came out inMarch 2020.

(18:32):
So does anybody recall what washappening in March 2020?
Maybe not the best time forreports to come out because then
we're people probably got theirmail and that's about it.
Yeah, there was a lot of COVID,uh a lot of COVID concerns
happening, but I think what theyuh provided was very helpful,
and one thing that theyarticulated in there was to

(18:52):
expand the registrationrequirement.
Um that actually I think um umyou know it it was something
that the Hill noticed, and I andI and I can't give you the full
list of all the differentamendments or legislation that
was introduced, but I know therehad been uh tremendous interest
in the Hill about that as well.
So that was really interestingto see.

(19:13):
But um what I would go back tois where kind of my agency is
and some of our thoughts on thisas well, and some of these are
my my personal thoughts, but um,you know, one of the things that
I think is important to know isthat legislative proposal I
mentioned would include allgenders.
And I and I believe in and I'veyou know going you know, going
back and looking at recentlegislation, particularly the uh

(19:36):
FY 2022 National DefenseAuthorization Act, um this you
know, it was something that wasbeing considered in that
legislation to you know toexpand the registration
requirement.
And the administrationarticulated that they supported
the uh the expansion of theregistration uh requirement to
all Americans in a statement ofadministration policy.

(19:57):
Um it's important to alsoemphasize.
That the decision ultimately toexpand registration to women is
for the president and Congressto decide, and we'll execute our
mission here accordingly.
And we know there aredifferences of opinion about
expanding registration.
And I believe registrationexpanded to all genders is
ultimately in the nationalinterest.

(20:19):
My opinion rests on the factthat it will ensure the nation
would be in the best position toincrease the size of the
military rapidly andthoughtfully if needed to do so.
DOD would have the benefit ofhaving a fuller and more diverse
set of skills available to it.
Should there ever be a return toconscription during a major

(20:40):
conflict?
Since we can't truly predict thefuture and know exactly what
will be needed most during thatemergency.
So the military could needpeople filling a wide variety of
roles.
So you know, people historicallythink of, oh, conscription, you
know, people are being shippedoverseas, uh, they're going
right into the infantry.
That's not always the case,really.

(21:01):
I mean, you hear stories goingback to the Vietnam era of
people doing much uh differentthings.
In World War II, certainly,people were fulfilling a lot of
roles.
So the nation would potentiallyneed people serving in the
military who were uh focused onIT and cyber operations, drone
operations, logistics, peopleworking as mechanics for all

(21:22):
this equipment, uh, HR andadministration, civil affairs.
So it could run the full gamut.
So this would actually allow DODto thoughtfully look at that
pool of people coming in andbest match them where they're
needed.
And I and I and I think in alarge-scale society level uh
conflict, we would potentiallyneed people in a lot of

(21:42):
different roles.

SPEAKER_03 (21:43):
True.
And I think, you know, I was inthe Pentagon um from 2010 to
2015.
Uh during that time, uh the thecurrent administration uh
abolished Don't Ask No Tell,right, which is a problematic
law that that limited therecognition of service from many
service members and put a lot ofcommanders in in bad spots,
right?

(22:03):
You know, for for a number ofreasons.
And then fairly quickly afterthat, after I left the Marine
Corps in 2015, um they changedthe policy on ground combat
exclusion for women, becauseprior to that point, women were
excluded from tanks, artillery,infantry, especially, um, and
other ground combat jobs, whichin the Marine Corps is the

(22:25):
fastest track to leadership,right?
To becoming a general, tobecoming, you know, and actually
leading the Marine Corps.
So you know, you know, there isa huge debate out there about um
who owes what to the country andwhy.
And I think, you know,personally speaking, um, you
know, I think you know, we arefoolish not to fully embrace

(22:45):
100% of the talent within thecountry, right?
If we're only going to limitourselves to half.
And right now, I know I know youyou don't make the laws and it's
restricted right now to males 18to 25, but that was a pretty hot
topic of debate as well.
But what's funny is that thewomen that I served with in the
Marine Corps for 20 years almostunanimously said, hell yes,

(23:07):
women should be required to signup for the selective service.
So I mean, you know, it's uh,you know, I think a lot of the
debate on that depends on thekind of where you sit in the
society and what kind of valuesyou're brought up with, and you
know, if you're more traditionaland more open-minded, um, and
that's fine.
But you know, that's that's animportant part of the debate,
and I think one that needs tokind of be be had, right?

(23:28):
So Ellen, what would what do youthink?

SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yeah, I mean, as a woman who who didn't serve, um,
and actually I went to collegeum at a at a at a university
that during my time there didn'thave ROTC even on campus.
Um, but then my senior year was9-11.
Um, you know, I was in New YorkCity, I went to Columbia
University, 9-11 was theSeptember of my senior year.

(23:53):
You know, you your your feelingas a as a young person, I mean,
I think a lot of people in thecountry had a very different
perspective on what it meant toserve, um, including in the
military.
So I'm all about it.
I mean, I have two daughters anda son.
I think they should all, youknow, have to sign up and uh and
I hope some of them serveregardless of their gender.
Um and so I yeah, I think, Imean, I think there's a you

(24:15):
know, we we should feel aboutthis not as a burden, but as a
privilege and a responsibilityas a citizen, not you know, as a
burden as a young man that thatyou must carry.

SPEAKER_03 (24:25):
Yeah, and one of the things that I I really
appreciated about what DirectorSpangenberg brought up was that,
you know, there's a lot of jobsin the military that aren't
infantry or artillery tanks,right?
So I mean, in the Marine Corpsalone, fewer than 15% of the
people in uh in the Marine Corpsum serve in that capacity.
Uh a lot of there's a lot ofother jobs in the in the in the

(24:48):
military that don't you knowassume that kind of direct
contact with the enemy risk.
So I mean, you know, and I getit, you know, like you know,
people um typically don't liketo be told what to do.
And if they have plans in life,you know, to be told that
they're gonna do something otherthan those plans and serve in
the military probably would be afairly uh significant emotional
experience.
But we've had an all-volunteerforce since 1973.

(25:10):
It's been a long time since uhour our nation has um had a
draft.
And from from your perspective,Director Spangenberg, like what
are the what are the pros ofthat system?
Like, you know, if if we haven'tused it since 1973, like what uh
um why do we still have it?

SPEAKER_04 (25:30):
I I think it all comes back down to uh we need to
maintain a level of readiness asa country.
Um I think that this isactually, you know, I've I've
I'm very much a product of theall-volunteer force myself.
Um, and I had the greatprivilege of serving with uh
many outstanding men and womenthroughout my career.

(25:50):
And uh it's it's it's great tosee the service uh that they uh
that they bring so proudly tothe country.
Um but I I think one of thethings that comes back up for me
quite a bit is the fact that wejust cannot predict what that
next conflict will be, right?
So I think that's something wehave to be clear-eyed about.

(26:12):
Um you know, things can happen.
Um and I would say we arefundamentally here to backstop
uh the Department of Defense ifthere is a major conflict.
And I, in my view, there has notbeen what I would term, and I
don't mean any offense here, buta major conflict or major war
since World War II.
And what I mean by that issomething really requiring the

(26:35):
society to really align to thesuccess of the nation in that
conflict, really have a sense ofthere might be sacrifice, there
might be hardship.
Um, and I think that that's whyyou know things like selective
service system are here, to makesure the country can ultimately
be successful.
Um, to build what we have fromwhole cloth, uh, and GAO has

(27:01):
even looked at this before, it'snot something you can just throw
money at and hope it'll just becreated.
Because what underlies what wedo is uh a sense of trust with
the public.

SPEAKER_03 (27:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 (27:13):
If the public sees that we are here, we're well
maintained, we're being fair andequitable, we're being
thoughtful, we're I like the theterm, and I heard uh I've heard
uh General George, who's thechief of staff of the Army, use
this, and I love this term.
We pull preparedness forward,and that's kind of the mentality
as a readiness organization.
We do things ahead of time so ifthat moment ever comes, we can

(27:37):
respond and respond competentlyand well and communicate it
well.
Because we know it's gonna be ata very shocking time for the
country if that time ever comes,and we owe it to everybody to do
the best we can now, practicehard now so we can succeed when
that time comes.

SPEAKER_03 (27:54):
Yeah, and I think, I mean, what you're describing to
me, and correct me if I'm wrong,is really a literal break glass
in case of war capability thatour nation has, right?
Like we've got this list ofmilitary age right now, men, and
potentially in the future women,who can be notified, called up,
and and directed towardsmilitary service in a moment's

(28:15):
known as if um the Congress andif the president both agree,
which is a big if, right?
And I mean, because you'reright, like World War II,
existential threat to thecountry.
Like when we went into World WarII in 1941, we didn't know um uh
what America was going to looklike coming out of the other
side of that thing.
And if if you know if Germanyhad had beaten Britain, um who

(28:39):
knows what our what our countrywould have looked like uh if
things turned the other way, orif you know the the Russians on
the Eastern Front didn't uhdidn't succeed as well.
But the uh existentialexistential threat, God, that's
a hard word to say, I think isan important thing for our
listeners to understand.
This isn't something that'sundertaken lightly.
I mean, you know, the the chipsreally have to be on the line in

(29:00):
a major way for uh the Congressand the President to pull the
trigger on on reinstituting thedraft.

SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
Yeah, it's what we say all the time.
What there's a lot of talk inAmerica about what our rights
are, and just not as much talkabout what our responsibilities
are of citizenship.
And this is one of those very,very um, you know, sort of
poignant examples of, you know,if our responsibility as
citizens is in the commondefense, then this is a key part
of it.
And so how do we make sure thatthis becomes something that

(29:28):
people are proud to do and notsomething that they're burdened
to do?
Um and so we're yeah, we'rewe're here for that.

SPEAKER_03 (29:34):
Yeah.
And as I mean, there's a lot ofbenefits to the all-volunteer
force, professionalism, kind ofplanned pipeline, you know, high
quality training, uh, peoplethat want to be there, right?
You know, it's you know, I spentum two years uh over at the
Marine Corps West Coast bootcamp, and you know, we were
talking to the troll instructorsabout like your training of
volunteers is a very differentthing than training of

(29:57):
conscripts that your Uncle Bobwent through, the Marine Corps
in you know the late 60s, early70s.
Like totally different uhcultural, climate, um,
motivation, and the rest of it.
And and I gotta imagine, like,you know, if if you had plans
and all of a sudden you got atelegram in the mail or a letter
saying, hey, you know, guesswhat?
You're going in the Marine Corpsof the Army back in 1968.
You probably um, you know,there's probably a lot of uh,

(30:21):
you know, a significant lack ofmotivation when you got to boot
camp, right?
Like, um, but you know, thereare downsides to that too.
The all volunteer force, I meanwe've seen it in 20 years in
Iraq and Afghanistan, and andJoel, you're there, you're there
for you know parts of it, right?
You know, and um, you know, it'syou have folks going over for
two, three, four, five, six.
I think the the highest number Isaw somebody did 15 deployments

(30:43):
um with special operationscommand during that time.
And and we run the risk ofreally wearing people out.
And um, you know, and we've seenit, and and now in the veteran
space, we see kind of like thedownside of of that wear and
tear um on veterans, right?
Um and there's a discussion tobe had uh you know about like

(31:03):
the the Sib Mill gap, right?
A lot of people to cry, like,oh, you know, in the veteran
space, like, you know, ourpublic doesn't understand uh the
military, they don't understandveterans.
And it's like, well, yeah,because you know, less than one
half of one percent have havejoined and served um since 9-11.
And you know, when when we're atwar and America's told, hey, go

(31:24):
to the mall, you know, like youbrought up.
There's an inevitable gap that'sgonna come into place.
And I'm concerned about thisbecause right now we're at 17
million veterans by 2040 uhtimeframe.
The VA says we're gonna be downbelow 14 million as the Vietnam
generation dies off.
As our population in our countrygoes from 330, 335 million now

(31:45):
up to 405 million over the sametimeframe.
So, like, you know, numbers ofveterans per capita is gonna get
even smaller unless, God forbid,there is a national emergency
where we do have to uh resort tothe selective service and
conscript people again in largenumbers.
But you know, I think, you know,perhaps, you know, looking back
over the history of the countryand understanding that

(32:06):
conscription was more the normthan the exception for most of
our history in the wars that wefought.
You know, greatest generation ofWorld War II, most of those
folks were conscripted, if I Icheck my math correctly, right?
You know, they weren't right.

SPEAKER_04 (32:20):
I think it was about uh uh of the 16 million who
served, over 10 million wereconscripted.
Yeah.
So that's a very true statement.

SPEAKER_03 (32:28):
Yeah, and a lot knew their number was coming up, so
they volunteered anyway.
So, you know, like you couldprobably plus up, you know, the
numbers who otherwise would havebeen conscripted hadn't, you
know, you know, it's kind oflike if I know my number's
coming up and I have an abilityto volunteer now and choose like
I'd rather go into the navy thanthe Marines or something like
that, or or or the Army than uhit would have been the air corps

(32:48):
back then.
But um, but yeah, no, it's it'san interesting conversation to
have, right?
You know, because it's likethere's greater philosophical
questions at hand of like what'sthe responsible and moral way
for our country to go to war.
You know, do we put it on thecredit card and and not have a
war tax?
You know, do we haveconscription or not?
I mean, those are broader uhpublic conversations I think

(33:10):
that that need to be had andkind of go beyond the bounds of
our conversation today.
But yeah.
Ellen, your thoughts?

SPEAKER_01 (33:18):
Yeah, no, I mean I this is such an important thing
for people to know about.
And so we're we're so gratefulum to have you, you know, sort
of walk through it and and foryour leadership and and you
know, trying to keep things withthe times, which is so
important.
Um Yeah, I mean, I you know, Ithink we again, this is this is
one of those things that peoplehave like this six six-year
window of time where maybe theythink about it, um, or and then
they have another six-yearwindow of time when they're

(33:40):
parents when when they're theyare parents of people who are
thinking about it.
Um but it probably should be amuch more frequent public
conversation, especially um, youknow, for for Joe and I, and
obviously you and your family,you know, living in this in this
relatively small community andknowing that, you know, of
people that will serve in thefuture, it is likely to be, you
know, I I have three kids.
My kids are far more likely toserve than everyone else in

(34:02):
America their same age, right?
And that that feels a littlethat feels a little weird.
It feels a little um, you know,it I don't we don't think the
military should just be a familybusiness.
We should find ways to to bringmore people in and and make
people feel proud of andconnected to it.
So super grateful for for you uhexplaining all this to us.

SPEAKER_04 (34:20):
Ellen, I I love your point there too, and I think
that notion of service is reallyimportant, and I think that's
something we should all cherishin this country.
Um and I and I wanted to mentionthis too, and I and it, you
know, this is something to thinkabout.
I mentioned that NationalCommission.
They talked about thisopportunity for federal agencies
to work together to boostawareness of service, military,

(34:43):
national, and public service.
I don't necessarily see them asmutually exclusive.
Um, you know, I I kind of comein, like I said, optimistically.
I think people might try to gofrom one to another.
We see a large number ofveterans serving in the federal
government after you know havingspent time in uniform.
Um so one thing I wanted to letyou guys know too, that we, you
know, in that spirit of serviceand wanting to do more, uh we've

(35:07):
become, we we started to partnerwith the MerICorps.
Um we already have one MOUmemorandum of understanding on
uh with them, and we're on trackto have another one to share
between our agencies more aboutuh service and volunteer
opportunities so more youngpeople know about it.
It could take the form of hey,uh when a young person gets
something in the mail fromSelective Service, a

(35:28):
registration acknowledgementletter, they would potentially
get something from uh AmeriCorpstelling them about national
service.
And we're looking at maybe we dosome of this via mail, some
maybe we do some of thiselectronically.
Same thing with Peace Corps andmaybe even public service.
So we've been talking with someagencies about that.
But we have a vision too thatSelective Services across

(35:51):
military, national, and publicservice, building on our unique
capabilities to engage withyoung men, potentially more than
young men, like we discussed,who are on the verge of choosing
their path in life.
And um, I actually am a I'm areally big believer in service,
as you can hear.
Um, and I and I think thatbuilding service ethos is in our
national interest.

(36:12):
Um, I think that you knowutilizing things like uh
national automatic registrationand focusing on a national call
for service aretransformational.
They'll build up a betterunderstanding of civic
responsibility, and I think it'sjust really a great investment
in our future.
And I'd I'd love to see peoplewho and I love community
service, but let's take thatcommunity service to the next

(36:32):
step.
Have you thought about nationalservice, working with people who
aren't like you, maybe are froma different part of the country,
working on something bigger thanyourself to deliver something of
value to the country andbuilding those bonds over years,
I think that strengthenspeople's uh notion of how to
interact with the government,what the government is, it's not
the enemy, but that they arefundamentally stakeholders.

(36:56):
They have a responsibility toshape the government.

SPEAKER_03 (36:58):
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
And the whole point about likethere's many ways to serve our
country is absolutely true.
You know, our teachers, ourfiremen, our EMTs, our truck
drivers, or farmers, like allthe like everyone that kind of
makes this fabric uh of Americaand the system work, um, you
know, it's important, right?
So I think you know, it's likeservice, national services is

(37:20):
just not the domain of America'smilitary veterans.
So um we just wanted to uh thankyou again for coming on the show
today, for helping educate usabout what the selective service
is, how it affects Americans'lives.
Right now, we know it's males 18to 25 have to uh register.
Uh the law is not yet there forwomen to be required to do the

(37:40):
same.
Um and I had one last question.
So if I'm 19 and I'm well pastmy 18th birthday and I didn't do
this, am I in trouble?
Or like, you know, if I show upand do it now, am I gonna, you
know, is there any penalty tothat?
Or what's the what's the courseof option for me there?

SPEAKER_04 (37:54):
So uh men can continue to register um all the
way through their final day ofbeing 25 years old.
But once they hit 26, they canno longer uh register.
Uh but if uh you know if they dohave concerns about, oh my
goodness, I didn't register andI want a federal job, they can
uh contact select a servicesystem and they can request uh
uh what's called a statusinformation letter.

(38:16):
And actually we move that onlineto help uh people who are in
that uh in that category.
Uh so that there is a process,but it's ultimately the benefits
granting organizations that haveto make the you know
determinations about uhsomebody's knowing and
willfulness for not registering.

SPEAKER_03 (38:33):
Okay.
Yeah, no, that makes sense, andand it's it's good to know that
there's a process in place forif if I you know forgot, didn't
do it, whatever, had footballpractice that day, um, okay.
It's important for people to tounderstand the law and and to
follow it.
So well, um any any finalthoughts?

SPEAKER_04 (38:52):
Uh no, Joe, this this has been a real treat to
talk with both you and Alan anduh to hear your thoughts on this
and uh really value thediscussions that you're having
and the discussion we had today.
I really appreciate the time andopportunity.

SPEAKER_03 (39:07):
Well, we really appreciate the the gift of your
time and thoughts and wisdom onuh you know what I what I would
say is like a little knownaspect of the American
government that can haveprofound impact on the lives of
Americans and our nationaldefense.
So thank you for all you andyour staff do to make sure that
you know if we ever needed to uhengage in this uh uh uh

(39:27):
conscription again, um, there'sa system in place to rapidly
call Americans up to uh toserve.
There are many ways to serve ourcountry after leaving the
military, and there are manygreat groups across our country
who can use your talents anddraft.
There's an old saying that ifyou want to go fast, go alone.

(39:48):
But if you want to go far, gotogether.
And when we challenge ourselvesin 2022 to help America close
120,000 deficit in election pollvolunteers, we banded together
with like minded people.
Vet the vote, which was ournationwide public awareness and
election poll worker recruitmentcampaign, to help ensure
American elections are properlystaffed and run.
That year we built a coalitionof more than 30 veteran and

(40:10):
civic groups and asked veteransand their family members to
serve again.
You know what?
More than 63,500 of youresponded.
And today we're spotlighting thenewest member of the Vet the
Vote Coalition, the MissionContinues.
We're super excited about this.
They have a great mission, astheir name would imply, and a
superb reputation in the veteranand military space.

(40:30):
And joining us today from theMission Continues is Marine
Corps Combat Veteran andPresident of The Mission
Continues, Mary Beth Bergeman.
Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 (40:39):
Thank you.
Wonderful to be here with youboth.
Thanks so much for having us onand for for everything you're
doing every day to protectdemocracy.

SPEAKER_03 (40:46):
Absolutely.
And thanks for for joining usthis morning on uh espresso
fueled uh uh actually it'smid-morning already.
Okay.
Um but yeah, just before we wenton, uh Mary Beth and R and I
realized that we were both inIraq together.
You were MWSS 372 while I waswith 1st Marine Division.
Um 373.

(41:09):
I'm sorry, that's right, 373.
Um God, they screwed up already.
I need more caffeine.
But anyway, uh we want to get toum your mission and your
organization.
So can you tell us like whatdoes the mission continue to do?

SPEAKER_00 (41:23):
Sure.
Um well, we're a nationalnonprofit, and we exist to give
veterans an opportunity to serveagain when they leave the
military.
So this time we're asking themto repurpose their leadership
skills and their experience backhome in under-resourced
communities in their ownbackyards and find ways to once

(41:44):
again serve with a mission and apurpose, and we're helping point
them in the right direction andlinking them up with community
partners who can really usetheir support.
Um, and they are therebyfulfilled and find that sense of
purpose again that so many of uslose when we leave the military
and find connection with otherveterans and with communities,

(42:04):
and it's a it's a win-win.

SPEAKER_03 (42:06):
Can you give us a few examples of things that that
your organization does?

SPEAKER_00 (42:10):
Oh, sure.
I can give you hundreds ofexamples.
Um, you know, we're we're reallyexcited about what we're doing
in San Antonio this year.
We're gearing up for what wecall a mass deployment, which is
our once annual opportunity forum to bring veterans in from
across the country and deploythem against some local work
that's been taking place therefor a long time.
So our local platoon leader,Richard Diaz, who's a veteran

(42:33):
himself and a volunteer, he'sbeen stepping up and leading a
service platoon in San Antoniofor years now.
And he brings together veteransand non-veterans on any given
Saturday throughout the year andconnects with local nonprofit
partners and uh, you know, putsputs everybody to work in a six

(42:54):
or seven hour timeframe and doesincredible things over the
course of the day.
Um, so it's really amazing tosee the work that he's been
doing with his partners likeDemocracy Prep and so many of
his, he's got urban gardens andurban farms that he works with
in San Antonio.
He works with the San AntonioUnified School District and so
many others across the city.

(43:15):
And so we're able now to buildon that work this summer in June
and deploy about 80 veterans toSan Antonio to help give a real
shot in the arm to the work thathe and his platoon have been
doing for years.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 (43:29):
So, I mean, it's it's very obvious what this
community, your community ofveterans, is doing for these
other communities, San Antonio,but all across the country, as
we we well know.
How do you categorize what thatwork does for the veterans
themselves and sort of theveter, the broader veteran
community?

SPEAKER_00 (43:49):
Um, well, so I find that veterans so often miss the
thing that they're missing whenthey leave the military.
And so so many go looking for tofill a hole somehow.
And it's work, it's it's havingstable finances, it's all the
things that we need to do whenwe leave the military.
Um, but I meet so many veteransthat tell me that what they

(44:10):
didn't know was missing wasfeeling needed again.
And so there's this gulf that iscreated when we leave the
military because for so longwe've been in this really
mission-driven, purposeful work.
And we leave the military, wetransition out, and we find so
many things, we find fulfillmentin so many different ways with
family, with work, with our homelife, whatever it is.

(44:30):
Um, but if you don't have thatfeeling that somebody needs you,
that you're still on someone'sfront lines, that you're still
on that wall, um, then there'sreally something that can very
much feel like it's missing.
It's just this black hole, andso many folks just misidentify
it or can't identify it at all.
Um, that's one of the greatestjoys is watching veterans
discover organizations like TheMission Continues and the work

(44:52):
that we do and tell us on theback end of their first service
project or their first massdeployment, this is what I
didn't know I was missing.
This is the thing that I didn'tknow I needed.
Um, and so we're we are fillinga purpose gap.
We're filling a connection gap.
It's that ability to have thatreally comfortable banter with

(45:13):
military veterans that, youknow, that you might miss from
the military, that that feelinglike you're part of a tribe
again, but also recognizing thatthat tribe extends beyond those
veterans and now includes thisincredible community of
non-veterans and supporters andlocal communities that want to
create this connection with youas well and want to tap into

(45:34):
that leadership and experiencethat you bring home.

SPEAKER_03 (45:37):
That is so, so important.
I mean, I remember Mary Beth,and you probably remember this
too.
Like when we came in the MarineCorps, General Krulak was we
always talk about like the threereasons we have in Marine Corps,
right?
To make Marines win battles andreturn quality citizens to their
communities.
And the Marine Corps doesn'tmake good on that last part of
that promise, right?
They get you out the door.

(45:58):
But groups like yours are theones who are really putting that
into play every day incommunities all across America.
You know, and I think it'simportant because like the
veteran community is shrinking.
You know, we have like a littlebit north of 17 million, I
think, now last I checked, andby 2050, that's gonna go down to
below 14 million while theAmerican population grows to
over 405 uh million.
And so per capita, um there arefewer and fewer of us.

(46:21):
And I think you know, whenpeople derry that military
civilian gap and America doesn'tunderstand us and all this other
other stuff, you know, one thingI tell veterans is like you
gotta take that first steptowards them when you go back to
your communities.
Like if you're waiting forsomebody to reach out to you,
you're gonna be waiting a longtime.
So I think, you know, what agreat, great way to meet other
people where you intend to liveand and put your talents um out

(46:44):
there in a positive directionthat's gonna help the entire
community.
Fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 (46:48):
Yeah, just and just stepping up.
I mean, I think it's incredibleto just to see people come back
to life when they startvolunteering.
And again, it's with us, it'swith other organizations.
There's so many out there.
Um, I love what we do for veryparticular reasons.
It's it's not only it's is itimpactful on the veterans, but
we're making a big impact incommunities.
Um, but again, you can find itin so many different places, but

(47:09):
it's that feeling of like, hey,I'm needed.
Somebody's asking me for myskills.
Again, somebody needs me to helpsolve a problem.
Somebody put something sticky infront of me and really needs me
to get through this challenge.
Um, I love it.
These service projects arechallenging.
I mean, we even throw things inthere like, hey, you may have to

(47:29):
do more with less.
You may have to get through thiswithout the resources you need.
We may, you may not have a toolthat you need, you may have a
weather challenge in front ofyou.
But that's when we find theseveterans get most, you know,
woken up, and that's when theyget most excited because they're
like, oh, wait a minute, achallenge, a hill I can climb?
Yeah, I know how to do that.
Um point me towards the hardestthing, and that's what I'm gonna

(47:50):
go try to tackle.
Super cool.
I love that.
That's what I love most aboutthe veteran community.

SPEAKER_03 (47:56):
Yeah, you know, I I coach uh quite a few veterans
every year.
People will contact me, be like,hey, I'm I'm gonna be getting
out of the military, you know.
I feel like I'm jumping off ahigh dive.
Like, what do I need to thinkabout?
And you know, like they've heardabout like you need to figure
out like where you're gonnalive, how much you need to make,
what do you want to do for anoccupation?

(48:16):
And uh, you know, they come tome with various uh aspects of
that equation figured out, butreally what I tell them after
that is like, okay, well, howare you gonna make meaning in
your life after this?
You're leaving an organizationwith more than 240 uh years of
lineage where you know your youknow your rank and status within
the tribe, you know, like youhave a you know, something
happens on CNN and you'repacking your cargo bag to ship

(48:36):
out, like what's gonna put thatfire in your belly again.
And and I think you've uh landedon the secret.
It's like serving other peoplein a meaningful way in your
community.

SPEAKER_00 (48:45):
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah, yeah, finding finding thetoughest challenge you can find
and going after it for sure.

SPEAKER_03 (48:51):
Love it.
Yeah, absolutely.
What kind of support do you doesthe mission continues need from
our community?

SPEAKER_00 (49:00):
Um, you know, I I really love the quote you used
at the beginning.
If you want to go fast, goalone, if you want to go far, go
together.
Um, I know we don't do enough ofthat.
I mean, even the missioncontinues, we don't do enough of
that.
This real true collaborativework.
Um, but our space is gettingsmaller.
It's going to.
Um, not only do we have fewerveterans, as you said, but

(49:21):
there's less money out there.
There are fewer resources, andum, we're all competing for the
same attention, the samedollars, the same, the same
little slice of everything.
And um, what we want is to betrue collaborative,
collaborative partners.
We're all for partnership in anykind of way, whether it's
transactional or not.
We'll we'll partner.
That's great.
Um, but we're looking for real,real, true deep collaboration

(49:45):
that, in fact, where you pull,you're like puzzle pieces
working together and findingways to pull on each other's
strengths.
Um, so we're we're super open tothat and looking for
organizations that that justwant to be, want to draw from
the strengths of the work thatwe do and believe that the
strengths of the work that theydo can can fit together in a
really in a really positive way.

(50:05):
Um so that's one thing.
And that's kind of that goesinto sort of the mutual support
category.
Um, but there's also just a lot.
Look, we we fill a reallyimportant void in the military
and veteran support space.
Um, but it is one, it is justone void that we fill, and we're
very disciplined, um, more nowso than ever, because of
everything I just talked about.

(50:26):
We're very disciplined aboutstaying, sticking to filling our
void.
Um, but our veterans come to uswith a range of challenges,
desires, wants, needs, anything.
Um, and we we need partners thatwe can um confidently connect
them with and refer them to sothat they're getting all of what
they need.
And we we believe that this is asystem and an ecosystem of

(50:49):
support.
And again, we're we're just oneslice of it and good at what we
do, the best at what we do, um,but all too happy to tell
veterans about all the thingsthat we don't do and all the
folks that exist that that canhelp them in their next chapter
if if what they need is not whatwe have, or they need something
in addition to what we're we'reable to give them.

SPEAKER_03 (51:07):
Yeah, I'm here and kind of focusing on your mission
and keeping the main thing themain thing, yeah.
Which is kind of a a nice segueinto vet the vote.
Ellen, do you want to take usdown that path?

SPEAKER_01 (51:17):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I love you you hit onyou know the sort of the three
key things that that we would wewould say we we're really uh in
total alignment with, which isyou know, partnership,
collaboration across the veteranand military family space, um,
but also something really coolthat you said about you know
just sort of showing up anddoing the hard things.
And so um, you know, America hadthis challenge of poll workers,

(51:38):
we will have this challengeagain, we will continue to have
this need.
Um, and we see this this youknow sort of coalition as a way
to answer that need using thisincredible community.
So can you just in your ownwords talk about you know why
the Mission Continues um has haskind of you know joined this
coalition and and what you knowin this election year, um how
you see uh us all workingtogether to solve a problem for

(52:00):
America?

SPEAKER_00 (52:01):
Yeah, um I a couple things.
I mean, one, I think it'simportant for me to just talk
personally about the fact thatI'm one of the people that
answered the call.
Um, when you all put out thecall for poll workers and
election officers, um, I am nowan election officer here in
Virginia.
And I've only missed oneelection since I became an
election officer, and I feltlike I was missing out.

(52:22):
I had a I had real FOMO on thatday.
Um, it was too much with my justwhere we were with with the
mission continues and ouroperational cycle.
I just couldn't, I couldn'tcommit to the day far enough
out.
Um, but I hated missing itbecause when I worked that very
first election, and I think thatI was, I think I signed up um
for the primary in the 2020presidential election, if that

(52:47):
sounds right to you guys, liketiming-wise.
So I think that's that was myfirst election that I worked,
and then I worked the generalelection that year.
Um, and I was fascinated by thewhole experience.
I was drawn to it.
I really did feel like I was onthe wall that day.
Like I felt like they needed meon that wall that day.

(53:08):
And because it was somethingthat I could see from who turned
out for that, like it wasn'teasy to get election officers.
And I'm in a county that'spretty well resourced, so we
don't have massive gaps wheresome other folks do.
Um, but all the same, it wasn'tsimple to get people to sign up
and do the training and be outthere and be out there all day.
And I was so eager to be there.
And I knew as I met people umthat were working that election

(53:31):
with me, there were probably 50%of the people, at least 50% of
the people at my polling stationwere veterans or military
spouses.

SPEAKER_03 (53:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:39):
I mean, you could just see who was eager to answer
the call.
So that was one.
Like personally, I absolutelyloved the experience.
And I felt like it was um likethis ironclad, like this is
where this is where ourbureaucracy um really does the
job.
Like our elections areincredibly secure.
And I can say that because I'vebeen a part of them.

(54:00):
And so for me, I felt like Igained some credibility in being
able to say, like, we I can Ican tell you exactly what the
process is from start to finishon a day when you work at an
election like this and how yourvote gets counted.
Um, and I love validating thatfor myself and being able to
then be, you know, a trustedvoice for others.
Um, so that leads me to so whydid the mission continue to

(54:21):
join?
I mean, part of that is like myexperience does help to inform
why we can say yes to thingslike this and partnerships.
Um, and also I we have foundthat our our veterans want to be
a part of initiatives like this.
Um, again, when there is acritical gap in our country,
veterans want to be called.

(54:42):
They want to be asked to serve,they want to be asked to join.
Um, they care deeply about theoutcomes for this country.
They care deeply about um theour constitution and everything
it takes to uphold that.
Um, they do not care aboutpolitics, we find, generally
speaking, as a as a rule, Iwould say.
Um they don't care aboutpolitics and frankly don't want

(55:03):
to be a part of it.
And I think sometimes they needsomething that you guys are
really good at.
They need an education aboutwhere they can be most useful
because we leave, we are in themilitary and even leave the
military believing we shouldstay as far away from
conversations about politics aswe can.
And that can lead us to stayingfar away from government,

(55:24):
period.
And serving in any capacity,whether that's in government
service or even as an electionofficer.
Like I'm not allowed to be atpolls because it might make
people think that I'm in tunewith politics.
I hear that all the time fromveterans.
Like, ah, apolitical,apolitical, I'm non-political,
that I learned that from themilitary, I serve the
commander-in-chief.
Understood, and yet you're nolonger in the military, and in

(55:47):
fact, have a really important,trusted voice and in my view, an
obligation to at least beinformed.
And I I care not at all howpeople vote.
I care deeply whether they votebecause I just think that it's
so important to participate andfor something that you fought so
hard for um blood, sweat, tears,we lost friends.

(56:09):
We lost friends so that we couldhave an ability to have these
free and fair elections.
We fought in countries and sawfirsthand what it looks like
when other countries do not havefree and fair elections.
It matters, but it takes all ofus participating in that in
order for it to work.
And again, um I applaud um atwo-party system.

(56:31):
I applaud everything it takesand all the conflict it takes.
I think it's actually a reallybeautiful part of our democracy.
Um, and and still I askveterans, just be a part of it.
Just participate.
And if working, if being a pollworker, an election officer is
something that helps give youconfidence in the system, start
there.
Do that because it's needed.
Um and I do think it makes ahuge difference for veterans and

(56:54):
military families.

SPEAKER_03 (56:55):
We couldn't have said it better.
I mean, it it does change you ina meaningful way to go and make
democracy happen for Americans.
I mean, I remember uh my wifeand I, every time we volunteer
and and uh and help run ourpolling station, I mean, we
leave there feeling great,right?
Because, you know, you see somany members of the community, a

(57:18):
lot of people that may agreewith you, a lot of people that
probably don't agree with you,but they're all coming in to
exercise their fundamental rightto vote and choose our elected
officials.
And and you know, it's just likethat is a special thing that we
should never take for granted.
And as you mentioned, so many ofour brothers and sisters have
sacrificed over the years, um,going all the way back to 1775

(57:40):
to guarantee that right.
So, um Mary Beth, like where canpeople go to learn more about
the Mission Continues and getinvolved?

SPEAKER_00 (57:48):
Uh well, we go to our website.
That's the first stop, um,missioncontinues.org.
And um, from there, that willget you to a get involved page
where you can find out ifthere's a service platoon near
you.
And we have service platoons in47 cities across the country.
So I hope there's one near mostof your listeners.
And um I would just highlyencourage people to take the

(58:10):
step and come to the nextservice project in your
community.
Um there's no barrier to entry.
We it's a come one, come all.
We will find something for youto do that will help you feel
incredibly purposeful, whetheryou come for a day or you stay
with us for years.
Um, whether you decide to join aleadership team as a military
veteran or you want to come onetime with your family and um and
say you did a good thing for theday.

(58:32):
It takes all of it, it takesall.
Um, and we're just reallyexcited to continue to grow this
movement of veteran-led service.
Thank you so much for listening.

SPEAKER_01 (58:41):
If you found this podcast episode interesting or
useful, please share it with thepeople you know.
This episode was co-hosted byJoe Flensler and Ellen
Gustafson.
The audio and video were editedby King's Collab Studios.
This podcast is a production ofWe the Veterans and Military
Families, a 501c3not-for-profit, nonpartisan,
veteran and military spouse-ledorganization, focused on

(59:03):
promoting positive and patrioticcivic engagement to strengthen
American freedom and liberty.
Find out more about us atweTheVeterans.us and follow us
on social media.