June 24, 2026 • 44 mins
Overthinking can look like “being responsible,” but it often feels like your brain running laps with no finish line. I sit down with therapist and life coach, Katherine Flechaus, to get honest about the patterns so many of us live in: excessive worry, people pleasing, perfectionism, and that constant background fear of being “not enough.”
Katherine explains how these habits usually start as protection. A kid who learns to keep the peace, earn approval, or stay hyper-aware in relationships may grow into an adult who can’t stop self-criticizing. We talk through how to spot the difference between healthy self-reflection and a thought loop, then go deeper into what she calls your anxiety origin story. The point isn’t blaming parents, teachers, or coaches. It’s building awareness so you can finally choose a new response.
We also dig into boundaries in a way that feels practical, not trendy. Katherine frames boundaries as respectful behavior and shows how to prepare for the anxiety that hits after you say no. We talk guilt, pushback, family dynamics, and why some relationships change when you stop being the fixer. Along the way we connect the dots to self-trust, restorative experiences, and imposter syndrome fueled by comparison, especially on social media.
If you’re ready for stronger mental health, healthier relationships, and a calmer mind, press play. Subscribe to Virago 24-7, share this with a friend who overthinks, and leave a review so more everyday warriors can find us.
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Music by Deli Rowe: "Space to Move"
Logo by Kaylin Talley
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we're diving into a conversation that I think
so many of us need right now.
Joining me isKatherine Flechaus, therapist,
life coach, and someone deeplypassionate about helping people
navigate life's hard, messy, andbeautiful moments.
Through her work, Katherinehelps people better understand
(00:22):
themselves, their relationships,and the stories they carry.
We're talking about healing,emotional well-being, and what
it really looks like to show upfor yourself.
Let's get into it.
Hi, I am your host, LyanetteTalley, and you are listening to
Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior, and 24-7 is for all
(00:46):
day, every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world,
which share our views onself-love, mental health,
marriage, children, friendships,and really anything that needs
to be talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
(01:22):
Very good.
Is it a clinical social worker?
Speaker (01:33):
I'm a licensed clinical social worker and then a life
coach.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And a life coach.
And what I read is that youfocus a lot on overthinking,
anxiety, excessive worry, andperfectionism, all the topics
that I love to talk about andlike and learn about.
So tell us, tell us more.
Tell us how you got to thispoint, why you got into this
(01:57):
profession, and what you do uhto help people like me that are
overthinkers.
Speaker (02:05):
I got into this profession 30 some odd years
ago.
I started as a bachelor ofsocial work, um, working in in
healthcare.
Um then thought, well, maybe ifwe could intervene with people
earlier, right?
Um, maybe they wouldn't end upin the hospital with all these
chronic illnesses and what haveyou.
(02:27):
So I got my master's in socialwork and started counseling.
And I have counseled throughthe gamut of kids, adolescents,
young adults, seniors.
And what I started to see isthe connection that that sort of
thread that wove through, likethis overthinking, this
(02:50):
perfectionism, it all comes fromsomewhere, right?
So where does the belief thatgenerates the thought start?
And that usually what I wasseeing was a pattern of it
starting earlier in life,whether it was, you know, a
family experience, a schoolexperience, a peer experience.
Um and that's that beliefsystem formed around whatever
(03:14):
that experience was.
And what happened was that wewe created these patterns or
safeguards that supported thatcore belief.
So it worked when we wereyounger.
You know, if you struggledthrough middle school and middle
school girls and bullying andyou know, expectations, right?
(03:34):
You learn to become a peoplepleaser.
Because then you could stay inthat relationship, you could
navigate that relationship.
Um, yeah, so that's you know,that's that's where it started.
And so the more that I saw thatpattern, the more I started
thinking in terms of of lookingat things this way, like not
(03:57):
just not just addressing thesurface behavior that people
were coming to me with, butbecause that wasn't working, um,
was learning to go a little bitdeeper.
And then what I also saw isthat, you know, you don't have
to have a mental healthcondition to need this kind of
work.
And that's kind of thelimitation just to counseling,
(04:20):
right?
Is you have to either gothrough your insurance, have a
mental health diagnosis, have amental health condition.
So that's when I got into lifecoaching to bring this to a
wider audience of people to say,you know, people pleasing,
overthinking, these aren'tpsychiatric conditions, they're
just conditioned beliefs.
So that's kind of how I gothere.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So that's interesting that we're talking about this
because I was just talking to myson who just graduated high
school, and he's an athlete.
He's going to um play football.
He's been playing football.
Um and he's going up north toto play football for college.
And so one of his anxieties umwe were talking this morning is
(05:04):
him doing well when he goes upthere when it comes to football.
I just I want, I just want todo well.
And I, and so he's justoverthinking.
What what would I like what canI tell him to help him through
that?
Speaker (05:18):
Well, I would I would get curious with him about where
that anxiety is coming from.
Like, what makes you thinkyou're not gonna be good?
Right?
You were good enough to getselected by this school, right?
Um, you've done well in highschool.
I'm sure he played in middleschool and as a kid, right?
(05:40):
So where where does thismessage come from from him that
he might not be good enough?
You know, was it a coach thatwas, you know, kind of hard and
saying you're never good enough?
Because some coaches use that,you know, approach to get kids
to work harder.
And for some kids it works, andfor some kids it's it's not
(06:01):
helpful.
Um yeah, so kind of talk withhim about where is this coming
from?
Why do you think that?
Where did you hear this messagethat maybe you're not good
enough to be there?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Oh, I like that.
Okay.
I'm gonna use that.
I'm gonna use that.
Um what do you think thedifference is between like
healthy self-reflection or morelike an overthinking destructive
type of reflection?
Speaker (06:28):
Well, I think it starts with are you self-reflecting or
are you self-criticizing?
Right.
Because healthy self-reflection,we all want to do.
We, you know, we want to makesure that we're doing the right
thing, right?
So if a thought comes in yourhead, like, you know, was that
the right thing to say, right?
(06:48):
That's an an often thoughtloop, right?
Like, why did I say that?
Was it the right thing to say?
Okay, it was, or no, Ishouldn't have said that, so I
need to apologize, right?
That's healthy self-reflection.
When you're just going back andforth over and over it, like,
oh, maybe I shouldn't, maybe Ishould have said that, maybe I
(07:09):
shouldn't have said that.
Um, and it's back and forth andthere's no resolution, now
you're stuck in a thought loopbecause your brain is trying to
resolve something, it's tryingto fix the problem.
But if there's not a problem tofix, it can't fix it.
Right.
So that's where it keepslooping and looping and looping.
(07:29):
Because maybe it was somethingthat should have been said, but
you feel uncomfortable becauseyou said it.
So now let's deal with that,right?
Because, you know, for peoplepleasers, for overthinkers,
we're always analyzing.
Did we say the right thing?
Did we do the right thing?
Right.
So you start doing a littlereality testing.
Well, was that the right thingto say?
(07:51):
Yes.
Okay, but you still shouldn'thave said it.
Well, why shouldn't I have saidit?
And now, now you're getting tothe why am I uncomfortable that
I set a limit or I saidsomething?
Now you're dealing with that,which is the real issue and not
the what was said.
It was sort of the setting theboundary or standing up for
yourself.
(08:11):
See the difference?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes.
Okay.
Just asking the why to get tolike the deeper meaning of it.
Okay.
Right.
Speaker (08:19):
That whole idea of, you know, you keep peeling back the
onion, right?
Because if the first onedoesn't resolve the why, you
haven't gotten to the realreason.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You talk about exploring someone's anxiety
origin story, and you kind oftouched on that in the
beginning.
Um, so what does that mean?
And like how like when you dothat with your patients or your,
do you call them patients orclients?
Clients.
Clients.
Patience is very my husband's adoctor, uh a dentist, and so
I'm used to saying the wordpatience.
Yeah.
Um like like talk me throughlike what you do to to go way
(08:54):
back and figure out where thisanxiety stems from.
Speaker (08:58):
Okay.
Well, I always start withhelping people to understand
that going back is not aboutblaming or shaming, right?
Because we're not looking topoint fingers at someone and
say, see, this is your fault.
This is, you know, what you didto me, but to gain an
understanding.
Okay.
So that's step one isunderstand that this is this is
(09:22):
about just bringing awareness.
And then we just start to talkabout what, like, when was the
first time you felt that way?
Where, what was happening?
How long have you felt thisway?
And you sort of just sort ofkeep going back, like people
start to identify a story.
Oh, I remember when.
(09:42):
Because those stories that arereally um, you know, really
powerful stick with you.
You know, like I remember thisteacher who was always hard on
me and always telling me, youknow, that I could do better and
that I wasn't trying hardenough.
Those are powerful messagesthat stick with you.
And so then you start doingmore, and and and it's never
(10:06):
enough because this lady's voiceis always in your head saying,
You need to try harder.
Yeah.
Right.
Or, you know, maybe it's aparent who had very high
expectations um of what youneeded to accomplish because you
needed to do better than theydid.
You know, so again, it's notanything that anyone did to be
(10:27):
destructive, but it's the wayyou interpreted it.
So it's really going back tofigure out where that story
started.
Yeah.
I like sometimes it's easier tofind, sometimes it's not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I like how you say not goingback to blame.
You know, that's something thatI had to learn um a while ago
because I was kind of stuck inthat blame, blame, blame.
And once you let that go, youcan really truly start changing
internally, like start really umunderstanding because the
blame, the blaming I foundcreates a lot of anger.
(11:02):
A lot, a lot of anger.
So um I like that that that'syour approach.
Um, it was hard for me to dothat.
Speaker (11:09):
There are situations, you know, where there is blame
to go around, right?
These aren't the situations I'mtalking about.
Um, you know, I'm not talkingabout kids that were neglected
or abused.
Of course.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yes, yes.
Speaker (11:21):
The, you know, they're regular.
So I always like to make thatclear that you know, yeah,
there's a difference.
Yeah, but you're right, becausethe the blaming just gets you
stuck in anger and and again,looping, like you recognize it,
be angry for a little while, butthen move forward.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Speaker (11:41):
Staying angry is detrimental to you.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yes.
Speaker (11:43):
The other person's moved on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yes.
So speaking of stuck, like whensomeone is kind of stuck in
those patterns, what are somesteps that you tell people to
start with?
If you're just kind of looping,angry, hating the past, blaming
your parents, blaming whoever,where do we start to kind of
break those patterns?
Speaker (12:06):
Right.
Well, we start with recognizingwhat the pattern is doing and
not doing.
Okay.
So is the pattern helpful?
Most times it's not, right?
People pleasing patterns,imposter syndrome patterns don't
usually they have strengthswithin them, but the pattern
itself is not usually helpful.
So let's start to look at whathappens when that pattern is
(12:32):
activated, right?
What do you do?
How do you think?
Now let's interrupt thosethoughts because you need to
understand why the thoughts arethere and how they influence
your behavior.
So this is different thanlooking in a mirror and saying,
I'm okay, I've got this, I knowwhat I'm doing, right?
Those don't work until you'vedone this the um the work below
(12:57):
the surface, right?
Because you've got to believethat you can do it.
Um, and so you start withsomething simple.
When is the pattern activated?
Um, when I have troublesetting, let's understand why
you're having trouble settingboundaries.
What are you afraid willhappen?
And for a lot of people, it'sthat I'll damage the
(13:19):
relationship.
Right.
Okay, so let's look at that.
When what makes you thinkyou'll damage the relationship?
Do you want to keep arelationship that um you have to
put more effort into than theother person does?
Right.
Because if we take that storyof going back to the the middle
school bully, you know, you hadto do that to keep the
(13:42):
relationship because at thatpoint, those kinds of
relationships were so important,you know, would make or break
you socially in school.
So it was an adaptive pattern,made sense then.
But now what you're finding isthat all I'm doing is attracting
people that need things fromme.
And people, you know, not thepeople that are giving and
taking, like a good relationshipshould be.
(14:04):
So when you understand what thereal fear is that's generating
the behavior, then you can startto look at things with a new
perspective.
Oh, I have the choice.
Do I want to keep thisrelationship?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah.
Is it I find that um it's moredifficult when it's more like
family members versus friends.
How do you how do you um kindof guide people through family
dynamics?
Speaker (14:35):
Right, because the difference with family is, I
mean, some people do and somecases require it, but in
general, we can't get rid of ourfamilies, right?
Yeah.
You we we see them when they'rethere at holidays, but we can
still change the expectationthat we have of them and that
they have of us, right?
(14:56):
So sometimes it's retrainingpeople, right?
Because part of the problemwith people pleasing is we have
taught people how to interactwith us.
We've taught them that, okay,I'm gonna be the go-to person,
I'm gonna be the one that solvesall the problems, I'm gonna be,
right?
And so it's learning to changethat dynamic.
(15:17):
And how can I pull back, youknow, not be the first one to
raise my hand, not be the one tosolve the problem.
And then people will begin tointeract differently with you.
It takes time because again,these things didn't happen
overnight, so they don't getfixed overnight.
You know, there are no quickfixes, but you know, maybe um,
(15:38):
you know, if you if you havethat kind of relationship with a
sister who's always coming toyou for advice, you very slowly
stop fixing and start maybeasking more questions, sort of
turning it back over to them orrecognizing this is one thing I
had to learn.
I've got four sisters, so Iknow sisters.
Um, you know, not all the timewhen they come for advice do
(16:03):
they want advice.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Oh, yeah, I've learned that.
Speaker (16:06):
Right?
Solve it all, right?
Yeah, and so to very slowlystop solving, because then all
they do is get annoyed becausethey don't like your solution or
whatever, to just start askingquestions like, well, what do
you think you should do?
You know, or just bereflective.
Oh, that sounds like that'sreally hard.
(16:28):
And then they have to startfixing it for themselves.
Yeah, yeah.
And you're preserving therelationship because they're not
mad at you for coming up with asolution or saying something
they didn't want to hear.
Um, and you're not feelingresponsible for fixing them.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I um I feel like I am a recovering people pleaser.
I'm not I I I used I used tobe, and um I've just I've grown
out of it.
I think with the help of myhusband, he is not a people
pleaser at all.
And so just learning from him.
Why do you think it's difficultfor people to say no?
(17:09):
And how can we kind of get pastthat?
Like what do we what can we doto feel comfortable saying no to
people?
Speaker (17:18):
Well, we have to understand why we're afraid of
saying no, right?
Like what are we afraid isgonna happen?
And for a lot of women, it's asit's as simple and complex as
guilt, right?
We were told to be good girls,to do for others, to give of
yourself, you know, this wholerole of being the caregiver, the
(17:41):
nurturer.
Um and so we're coming upagainst this belief that we,
okay, so if I don't do this,then what does that mean?
Does that mean I'm selfish, I'mself-centered, I'm not kind?
And so when you can understandthat, oh, I can set limits at
times and be supportive and behelpful, or yeah, I can be
(18:08):
selfish, you know, that it'sokay.
If people are asking me to dothings that I don't really want
to do, I do have the right tosay no.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker (18:17):
I've learned and then work through the guilt because
that feeling is coming.
So let's acknowledge that thefeeling is coming and how are
you gonna work through it?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah.
I've I've learned that majorityof the people accept the no
graciously.
What about what do you tellpeople like, what if someone
comes to you and says, Well, Isaid no, and the person got so
mad, and you know, there's justsome people that don't want to
hear that and will keep pushingand pushing and pushing.
Um, how do you deal with thosepeople?
(18:47):
What do you what can I dodifferently?
Speaker (18:50):
Right.
Well, that's where you want totake a good hard look at that
relationship.
Like, what does that mean aboutthat person, that friend, if
they can't take no for ananswer, you know, is this really
all about them?
Right?
Are they giving anyconsideration to you and what
your needs are?
Um, why are they, why do theykeep pushing back?
(19:12):
Because again, we're so used tobeing introspective as women,
right?
That it must be me, must besomething I did, you know, I
have to do this.
But let's reflect back out.
What does this mean about thisperson?
Yeah, and do I want this personin my life if they can't
respect my boundaries?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now again, all sounds easy onthe surface, right?
(19:33):
But it's planning for not onlysetting the boundary, but
following through.
Like, okay, let's figure outwhere your sort of weak point is
gonna be, right?
Where's your breaking pointwhen you're gonna say, Oh, okay,
it's okay, yeah, I'll do it.
And then let's make a plan, youknow, a script, a strategy for
(19:54):
when that happens, because weknow it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I've I've conqueredthat.
So, so yeah, that makes senseto me.
Um but do you find it comesback now and again?
Um, every now and then,especially with people that I've
known for when I was in mypeople pleasing face.
Right.
Right.
So um, but but sometimes um I Ithink about it and I'm like,
(20:18):
okay, is this a big deal?
Can I just like do it?
Um half the time it's just it'snot even that serious.
I'm like, okay, I can I can sayyes to that.
Um, but if I'm convicted, yeah,no, I I stick, I stick to it
and they're just gonna have torespect it.
But that also I think comesfrom more security within
myself.
Um, working on, you know,self-confidence has helped a
(20:42):
lot.
Um, and I think that's where alot of this stuff stems from, is
that when you don't feelconfident about who you are
internally, um, that's raw,that's where you kind of get
stuck in in this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um and then boundaries.
You just mentioned boundaries.
I'm all about boundaries.
And we throw this word all overthe place nowadays.
Let's talk about that.
What does that really mean?
(21:04):
Because I feel like it's gottenwatered down with these are my
boundaries and these are myboundaries.
Speaker (21:10):
And I talk to people like, I'm so sick of hearing
about boundaries.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker (21:14):
So think of boundaries as respect, respectful behavior,
right?
Um, how we interact with eachother in a respectful way.
Because sometimes, you know, wehave to do things we don't want
to do, right?
You know, a family membercalls, you know, and they need
help, and you have to do itwhether you really want to or
not, because they're yourfamily, and that's the thing you
(21:36):
should do, right?
That's different than you know,a friend who's who's expecting
too much.
Yeah.
Or, you know, like you said,that person that that doesn't
accept no.
Okay.
Now it's about respect.
And so boundaries should alwaysbe respectful and they should
be things.
(21:56):
So if something makes you feeluncomfortable.
Right.
Then that's a boundary beingviolated.
Um so it's about it's aboutbeing thoughtful, it's about not
overdoing.
It's not uh, you know, don'tlet people in your space that
you don't want in your space,but it's not about oh, I don't
feel like doing it, so I'msetting a boundary.
(22:18):
Because it's about balance too.
Boundaries look different withdifferent people.
That's true.
They look very different withyour mother than they do with
your child, than they do withyour best friend, you know,
who's not as close to, you know,a coworker versus a close
friend.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So we're talking about all these things, and it's
like you said earlier, it'seasier said than done.
Do you give homework or toolsthat people can use when we're
getting anxious when it comes toboundaries, when we're getting
anxious when it comes to all ofthis that we're talking about?
Speaker (22:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I I love homework becausehomework makes you work on it
between sessions, right?
Because if you don't work onit, it's not going to change.
Yeah.
It's easy, we can be talkingnow, and you're like, yeah, I
got this, right?
But let's talk about thereality.
There's there's a reason you'vebeen doing it this way.
Your brain is now wired to doit this way, right?
(23:13):
And once you have that stimuli,the behavior kicks in, right?
Instantaneously before you'veeven thought about it.
So, you know, some of thestrategies are just slowing
down, you know.
Like it's easy to give someonea script and say, okay, I'm
gonna say, you know, when uh,you know, when my boss asks me
to do something, I'm gonna say,oh, you know, I can't, I don't
(23:35):
have any room on my plate forthat.
Well, maybe you won't say no toyour boss, maybe it's another
coworker, right?
Um, you know, so we hear this alot, like just say this, just
say I don't have time, give metime to think about it.
That's only one piece of theintervention because the rest of
it is, okay, now what are yougonna do when you're feeling
(23:55):
anxious?
What does anxiety look like foryou?
What thoughts are you having?
Okay, how do we counter thosethoughts with a more positive
thought?
Right?
Like, oh, this is gonna make mefeel really selfish.
Okay, are you being selfish ifyou say no?
Um, what makes you feel thatway?
Uh what uh how can you not beselfish to yourself, right?
(24:19):
Like, what's this gonna do toyou?
So we think through all thesethings so that you're prepared
when you actually use that pieceof script, that all the stuff
beneath that script is ready togo.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (24:32):
So understand why predict you're gonna be anxious,
predict that you're gonnahesitate, and then let's plan.
We plan for those so that whenthey happen, you're ready,
you've got the tools.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I like that.
Speaker (24:46):
And a lot of it is about different thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
Do you go into like um goingback to the self-confidence,
self-trust?
Do you dive into that withpeople?
Like just I because I feel likeonce you are sure of who you
are, all of this stuff, it justmakes it easier to say no and to
and to set your boundaries.
What does that look like, theself-trust and and building
(25:10):
self-confidence?
Speaker (25:12):
Well, I think you're right, because once you
understand yourself, theconfidence naturally follows,
right?
So you're not feeling confidentbecause there's something that
you believe about yourself orthe way you're supposed to be
that gets in the way.
So once you understand that,once you understand why, and
(25:34):
then you give yourselfpermission to be different, you
start to fall into yourauthentic self, right?
Oh, okay, now I can do this.
And you've had experiences thatshow that, you know, the world
isn't gonna burn down becauseyou said no to somebody.
Um, and you start to have thosewhat I call, you know,
restorative experiences.
So you realize, oh, I can dothis and everything's gonna be
(25:58):
okay.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah.
Speaker (25:59):
I mean, maybe I lost this person in my life, but what
I can recognize is that thatwas a good thing.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker (26:05):
That this isn't somebody who was good for me to
have in my life.
So it's not a bad thing.
Where before losing somebodywas a bad thing because it meant
I wasn't good enough.
Yeah.
Right.
Now I know I don't, I I get tomake a choice.
The self-confidence starts tocome from that.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
No, I have experience from fromlosing friendships like that.
And it and at the time whenyou're going through it, it just
feels so big and so emotional.
And oh my gosh, what did I do?
What have I done?
Like what just happened.
But when you sit back and yourealize, hmm, that that
friendship was not fulfilling mein the in the way that I
(26:44):
thought, or maybe I've growninto a different version of
myself and it worked then, butit doesn't work now.
And so what I like to tellpeople, I mean, I'm not a
clinician or anything, but Imean, I've I've learned it with
my own life, is that man, likeit's freeing, actually.
(27:04):
It's a freeing experience onceyou get through the sadness and
like the like the grief of youknow, of of losing friendships
or relationships.
But I feel like I don't know, Ijust uh it just feels good to
have my own back and to considermyself instead of always
(27:25):
considering others.
Yes, we want to considerothers, but we're no good to
other people if we're not, youknow, there for ourselves.
So yeah.
Speaker (27:33):
So like you said, pay attention to after.
Oh, I feel like you know, thisI'm better, I'm healthier,
right?
This person was not good forme.
And so it's okay.
Yeah, and now you have thatexperience that I can say no,
it's good for me, it's not beingselfish.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (27:53):
The world did not burn down.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Exactly.
And and I still think thosememories and think those
moments.
We had wonderful times, but nowyou know it's time to move on
to something else.
Speaker (28:05):
So friendships are not always permanent, right?
We have different friendshipsat different chapters of our
life.
I mean, we have those wonderfulpeople that walk with us
through all our chapters.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Exactly.
Speaker (28:17):
But a lot of people are part of a chapter.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Once I learned that and really truly understood it,
um, it makes it doesn't make iteasier.
It does make it easier, but it,you know, we're still humans
and we're still gonna feel bigemotions.
Um, but once we get past that,it's it's not as scary as it
seems.
Speaker (28:34):
It's okay to have those emotions.
Just don't be held captive bythem.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So if someone is listening and they have no clue
what we're talking about becausethey haven't even started on
step one, they're just lost.
Um, and I've been there.
Like you, I don't know what mypurpose is, I don't know what my
passions are.
Um, I don't well, I think, Ithink, let me go back.
I think a lot of the times weknow we're afraid to voice it
because maybe we're not goodenough.
(29:00):
Or like you said earlier,imposter syndrome.
So let's get into that.
And what do you how do youguide people through that when
they're there's a starting fromlike, I'm lost, I know nothing.
Speaker (29:13):
Well, sometimes it's about going back to when did you
not feel lost?
Like, so what was going on?
What were the good things thatwere happening?
What um, and then how did youget off course?
Right.
Because chances are there therewas a message there that told
you, you know, like I wanted totake path A, but I didn't
(29:36):
believe enough in myself, so Itook path B.
Right.
So let's figure out why youdidn't do that.
You know, what are what arethose messages that are telling
you you can't have path A?
Because it's aboutunderstanding what's how we're
getting in our own way, how ourthoughts are getting in our own
way.
What are you, what are youpassionate about?
(29:57):
What, you know, start with thevery basics, like um, we sort of
used to take those personalityquizzes in school.
And if you're good at this,this would be the kind of job
you would take, you know.
So you just start askingquestions about what are you
passionate about?
What were you passionate about?
Why aren't you passionate aboutthat anymore?
Because in there, you're goingto come up with a theme of
(30:20):
what's getting in the way.
And then once again, you youget rid of those things, you
have the emotional energy andthe self-confidence to do it.
It's always about awareness.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think with me, it was um choices that I made that
took me down a different path.
And it it feels like, oh, well,now I can never go back to
those dreams or those or thoseideals because now we're over
here.
Um, and for me, it was I had adaughter at 21 while I was in
college and trying to figureout, oh, shoot, do I finish
(30:55):
college?
I wanted to be a journalist.
I can't be a journalist at 21with a baby.
Those were the things that Iwas telling myself back then.
And so then it took me down adifferent road.
Years go by and it's just like,yeah, now it's too late to go
back to that.
Speaker (31:09):
Um well, so then you ask yourself, is it really too
late to go back to that?
And if it is, you know, what'ssomething adjacent to that?
Right.
Like, what was it aboutjournalism that got me excited?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
This, what we're doing right now, talking to
people and connecting.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (31:28):
And so you found a way to do that.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
That's true.
Yeah.
Speaker (31:31):
Right.
So so you the passion is theconnecting with people.
The the avenue you had in frontof you was journalism, but now
you found a different way to doit.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (31:42):
So sometimes it's just about finding the neck something
that fits now.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Exactly.
I thought about it, but nowthat we're talking about it,
yeah, that's true.
That's true.
I found a different way, yeah.
Um, so it's never too late, iswhat you're saying.
It's never too late.
Never too late.
What does like living like ahealthy, mentally healthy life,
what does that look like forpeople that think it should be
(32:08):
perfect?
Because obviously we all knowit's not going to be perfect.
Yeah.
So what's the alternative toperfection?
Speaker (32:15):
Well, it's understanding that, right?
That there is no perfect life.
Right.
There's there's what we makeand how we find happiness within
our life.
And it starts also with withnot comparing yourself to other
people.
Right.
Oh my gosh.
Social media has its has itsadvantages, but it it gives
(32:39):
this, you know, fake impressionthat people's lives are one way
than another.
So I encourage people, ifthey're feeling like, oh,
so-and-so's life is better thanmine, oh, look at what she's
doing, look behind the curtain,you know.
Is it really that good?
Is it real?
Um are they struggling in otherareas so that they're balancing
(33:04):
their life a certain way, justlike you're balancing your life
a certain way.
What are they doing?
And is that something that youcan take on?
You know, like are they, youknow, being grateful for the
things that they have instead ofworrying about what they don't
have?
That's a good quality you canpick up from someone.
So it's understanding thatperfection doesn't exist.
(33:27):
Right.
So what would what makes youhappy?
What, you know, how are youhaving good relationships in
your life?
Are you are you connecting withthe right people?
That's a good mentally healthylifestyle.
You know, it doesn't mean youhave the big house, the fancy
car, you know, the three kidsdressed perfectly and nobody
(33:49):
ever gets dirty and we lookgreat in camera, you know, it's
it's what makes you happy andnot and not comparing, not
comparing, because that's wherethat's where the unhappiness
lurks.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
I I try to tell my um my kids,because I have I have three
kids, and then the youngest,when she was young, like a lot
younger, she's 15.
Um, but when she was like inelementary school, she did a lot
of that comparing.
And what I would tell her, it'slike we all have our own gifts.
She'd be like, oh, I wish Icould sing, or I wish I could do
that, or I wish I.
(34:23):
And I'm like, well, I mean,there's certain things that we
were not given those gifts ortalents, but let's look at what
you were given and let's workwith that.
And some things can be learned,like, okay, you want to learn
how to play the guitar orwhatever, like that can be
learned.
Um, you know, I know somepeople are just born just gifted
that way, and those are thepeople that she looks at, but
(34:45):
I'm like, stop comparing, let'sstop this.
So when we realize we just weall have a gift, all of us.
And we just have to just tapinto that and not be envious, be
excited for other people'sgifts.
Like, look at them, look atthem go.
Good for them.
Speaker (35:02):
Right.
And that's a beautiful way toto teach, especially girls, to
be like celebrate your friends'success.
Yes.
You know, don't be jealous,don't be bitter.
Um, celebrate their successbecause they'll celebrate your
success.
And you know, maybe your giftisn't as outspoken as a
beautiful singing voice.
(35:23):
Let's find the meaning in whatyour gift is.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Exactly.
Like I wanted the gift ofsinging, and I was not given
that gift.
I think God knew what he wasdoing when he I said, I would
be, I would be just all over theplace with my with my voice.
Speaker (35:38):
Um, yeah, my daughter has an amazing singing voice.
She was a professional musicianfor a while, and they sing and
they sing the baby to bed, andmy granddaughter says, Mimi,
sing me a song.
I'm like, uh-uh, Mimi doesn'tsing.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I'm like, we can sing, it's just not gonna sound
good while reading another book.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
What's the belief that youspecifically uh uh that you had
to unlearn to become the personyou are today?
Speaker (36:14):
Let's let's I had to unlearn a lot of people pleasing
and a lot of imposter syndrome.
You know, I mean I I grew up ina small town with a big family,
you know, everyone went to thesame school, everyone had the
same teachers, you know.
So you sort of get pigeonholedinto this is the way this family
(36:35):
behaves, this is the friendsthis family has, you know, and
so I had to learn to be my ownperson, yeah, you know, figure
out who I was separate from thisbig great family that I had,
you know, who was I within that?
Um and then, you know, ofcourse, being raised with so
(36:57):
many people, people pleasingjust became sort of a natural,
like, let's keep everyone happy,let's keep everything moving
smoothly.
Um, and so those are thingsthat I've I've had to get over.
I've had to learn to say no topeople, right?
Had to learn to put my ownneeds first.
(37:18):
And like you said, once you geton the other side of that, it
feels like, oh, well, thatshouldn't have been that hard.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, I should have been doing this a long time ago.
Yeah.
Speaker (37:28):
Right.
But it really was, it reallywas a journey.
I mean, even now, sometimes Imean, I worked for 30 years.
I have a ton of experience indifferent areas, and sometimes I
think, why is anyone coming tome?
What do I know?
Yeah, right.
Because I'm not A, B, or C,right?
That comparison that comes backin, and that's when you have to
(37:52):
go back to those old skills.
Remind yourself, don't compareyourself to other people.
You know, you are you and youhave a message to give.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah.
Is that where you think?
Because I wanted to talk aboutimposter syndrome.
Is that where you think itstems from?
Is that we're comparingourselves to other people, and
so we're feel we feel like we'renot meant to be doing what
we're doing.
Okay.
Speaker (38:15):
Right.
You know, someone is prettierthan me, someone is skinnier
than me, someone is moreintelligent than me, you know,
someone is more artistic thanme, right?
It's always that comparison.
So I'm comparing myself toother people.
Like we're talking about otherpeople's talents, other people's
gifts and not believing in myown.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (38:37):
That I somehow have to, I have to prove what you didn't
have to prove, you know, butshe didn't have to prove.
I have to prove, prove, prove,prove.
And I've spent so much timeproving that I never get to the
the finish line of I'm here,I've arrived.
I know, I have, I know enough.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I had to shake that off, uh, that whole imposter
syndrome thing.
Cause you know, when I startedthe podcast, I'm like, there's
like thousands and thousands ofpodcasts, like, who am I to
start one?
And who's gonna want to talk tome?
Um, but once you get past thatand realize there's room for
everybody, there's room foreverybody, and everyone's
(39:18):
running their own race and theirown journey, and just kind of
stay focused on on your path.
And that's helped a lot becauseI was suffering from that quite
a bit, actually.
Speaker (39:31):
Like, who am I?
And there's right, and there'swhere you have people to compare
yourself to, right?
Because there's just so muchout there.
It's the same when I went intolife coaching.
Like I'm I've been a therapist,you know, my whole adult life.
This was different.
And again, there are so manylife coaches out there.
(39:52):
Um, and I don't have a specificlife coach training.
So I was telling myself, Idon't belong in this space
without these trainings.
Then I started looking into thetrainings, and they're
everything I've been doing andlearning.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah.
Speaker (40:09):
You know, so sometimes it's it's taking a look and
being like, oh yeah, okay, Ialready know that.
Yeah.
Right.
For you, you know, I have theexperience, the interest, the
desire to interact with people.
You know, I have thisjournalist instinct.
So I'm gonna bring my own spinto my podcast and it's gonna
find its audience.
(40:30):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Is there anything else that we haven't touched
touched on that you would wantto share with us?
Speaker (40:39):
No, I think it's really about starting with awareness
and and being being open tolearning why you haven't gotten
to where you want to be.
Right.
Instead of saying, it's toolate, I should have.
Um but if you're you know, ifyou're really wanting to
understand your patterns and youwant to look at them as not
(41:03):
negative, right?
We can, you know, peoplepleasing gets termed as a
negative, right?
Like that's a negative.
But there's a reason, right?
So, you know, if you're ifyou're looking to understand the
why, then you know, this is thekind of work you want to do.
So you can figure out what yournext chapter is.
(41:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Where can people connect with you, learn about
you?
Speaker (41:27):
You can connect through my website, which is aligned
core life coaching.
Um, I'm on Instagram, Facebook,LinkedIn.
Yeah, my name is difficult tospell, but it's
f-l-e-c-h-a-us-s.
Um, it's difficult to pronouncetoo.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I'll make sure to to add all of that information to
the show, to the notes, and thenwhen I start posting on social
media, I'll make sure to tag youin them.
Speaker (41:54):
Yeah, and people can, you know, schedule a call.
And because I always encouragepeople to have a call first, you
know, and and talk to severaldifferent people.
Like if you want to get intolife coaching, talk to a couple
of different life coaches,especially if you, you know,
coming at it from a peoplepleaser, an imposter syndrome,
you know, you're going to beeasily, it's going to be hard to
(42:16):
say no to somebody, right?
Yeah.
But schedule three calls andand plan on not answering,
right?
People want you to answer rightaway, right?
They want you to make adecision right then and there.
But plan on having three callsand then comparing how did I
feel when I talked to thatperson?
Um, did I feel like I was beinglistened to?
(42:37):
Did I feel like I was beingsold something?
Because there's a lot of peopleout there that um are in it for
the wrong reasons.
So lean into your gut instinctabout that.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
I like that.
I like that.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
This was fun.
I'm so glad we connectedfinally.
Yes.
Finally.
Yeah, thank you so much.
I love this conversation.
I love talking about this kindof stuff because I've gone
through it myself.
I still go through things, andand I love to like get all the
(43:11):
information so that I can start,you know, using it in my own
life.
So I appreciate it.
Speaker (43:16):
Best of luck to your son.
He will do great in his newschool.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
But I think he's gonna be amazing.
Transition.
I think he's always been thisway.
He's an introvert, like he'sthe true definition of an
introvert.
But yeah, I think he'll befine.
Um, and we've gone through thisbefore with the overthinking.
So it's just another phase ofoverthinking.
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker (43:37):
Because now he's gonna have to meet all these new
people, this poor introvert.
Yes.
Yeah, just help him recognizehis skills, his gifts that he
brings.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much.
This was fun.
Yes, this was so fun.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
All right, take care.
All right, take care.
I'll leave you with this.
Fill your own cup first, notout of selfishness, but out of
necessity.
You deserve to be nourished,not drained.
(44:05):
You deserve to be whole, nothalf-given.
The world doesn't need yourexhaustion, it needs your
overflow.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago247.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give usfive-star ratings.
(44:27):
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago24
underscore seven and on Facebookat Virago24 slash 7.
And just connect with us andshare your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
Today we're diving into a conversation that I think
so many of us need right now.
Joining me isKatherine Flechaus, therapist,
life coach, and someone deeplypassionate about helping people
navigate life's hard, messy, andbeautiful moments.
Through her work, Katherinehelps people better understand
(00:22):
themselves, their relationships,and the stories they carry.
We're talking about healing,emotional well-being, and what
it really looks like to show upfor yourself.
Let's get into it.
Hi, I am your host, LyanetteTalley, and you are listening to
Virago 24-7.
Virago is Latin for femalewarrior, and 24-7 is for all
(00:46):
day, every day.
Virago 24-7 is a weekly podcastthat brings diverse women
together to talk about life andour experiences in this world,
which share our views onself-love, mental health,
marriage, children, friendships,and really anything that needs
to be talked about.
Here you will find everydaygrowth, everyday healing with
everyday warriors.
(01:22):
Very good.
Is it a clinical social worker?
Speaker (01:33):
I'm a licensed clinical social worker and then a life
coach.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
And a life coach.
And what I read is that youfocus a lot on overthinking,
anxiety, excessive worry, andperfectionism, all the topics
that I love to talk about andlike and learn about.
So tell us, tell us more.
Tell us how you got to thispoint, why you got into this
(01:57):
profession, and what you do uhto help people like me that are
overthinkers.
Speaker (02:05):
I got into this profession 30 some odd years
ago.
I started as a bachelor ofsocial work, um, working in in
healthcare.
Um then thought, well, maybe ifwe could intervene with people
earlier, right?
Um, maybe they wouldn't end upin the hospital with all these
chronic illnesses and what haveyou.
(02:27):
So I got my master's in socialwork and started counseling.
And I have counseled throughthe gamut of kids, adolescents,
young adults, seniors.
And what I started to see isthe connection that that sort of
thread that wove through, likethis overthinking, this
(02:50):
perfectionism, it all comes fromsomewhere, right?
So where does the belief thatgenerates the thought start?
And that usually what I wasseeing was a pattern of it
starting earlier in life,whether it was, you know, a
family experience, a schoolexperience, a peer experience.
Um and that's that beliefsystem formed around whatever
(03:14):
that experience was.
And what happened was that wewe created these patterns or
safeguards that supported thatcore belief.
So it worked when we wereyounger.
You know, if you struggledthrough middle school and middle
school girls and bullying andyou know, expectations, right?
(03:34):
You learn to become a peoplepleaser.
Because then you could stay inthat relationship, you could
navigate that relationship.
Um, yeah, so that's you know,that's that's where it started.
And so the more that I saw thatpattern, the more I started
thinking in terms of of lookingat things this way, like not
(03:57):
just not just addressing thesurface behavior that people
were coming to me with, butbecause that wasn't working, um,
was learning to go a little bitdeeper.
And then what I also saw isthat, you know, you don't have
to have a mental healthcondition to need this kind of
work.
And that's kind of thelimitation just to counseling,
(04:20):
right?
Is you have to either gothrough your insurance, have a
mental health diagnosis, have amental health condition.
So that's when I got into lifecoaching to bring this to a
wider audience of people to say,you know, people pleasing,
overthinking, these aren'tpsychiatric conditions, they're
just conditioned beliefs.
So that's kind of how I gothere.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So that's interesting that we're talking about this
because I was just talking to myson who just graduated high
school, and he's an athlete.
He's going to um play football.
He's been playing football.
Um and he's going up north toto play football for college.
And so one of his anxieties umwe were talking this morning is
(05:04):
him doing well when he goes upthere when it comes to football.
I just I want, I just want todo well.
And I, and so he's justoverthinking.
What what would I like what canI tell him to help him through
that?
Speaker (05:18):
Well, I would I would get curious with him about where
that anxiety is coming from.
Like, what makes you thinkyou're not gonna be good?
Right?
You were good enough to getselected by this school, right?
Um, you've done well in highschool.
I'm sure he played in middleschool and as a kid, right?
(05:40):
So where where does thismessage come from from him that
he might not be good enough?
You know, was it a coach thatwas, you know, kind of hard and
saying you're never good enough?
Because some coaches use that,you know, approach to get kids
to work harder.
And for some kids it works, andfor some kids it's it's not
(06:01):
helpful.
Um yeah, so kind of talk withhim about where is this coming
from?
Why do you think that?
Where did you hear this messagethat maybe you're not good
enough to be there?
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Oh, I like that.
Okay.
I'm gonna use that.
I'm gonna use that.
Um what do you think thedifference is between like
healthy self-reflection or morelike an overthinking destructive
type of reflection?
Speaker (06:28):
Well, I think it starts with are you self-reflecting or
are you self-criticizing?
Right.
Because healthy self-reflection,we all want to do.
We, you know, we want to makesure that we're doing the right
thing, right?
So if a thought comes in yourhead, like, you know, was that
the right thing to say, right?
(06:48):
That's an an often thoughtloop, right?
Like, why did I say that?
Was it the right thing to say?
Okay, it was, or no, Ishouldn't have said that, so I
need to apologize, right?
That's healthy self-reflection.
When you're just going back andforth over and over it, like,
oh, maybe I shouldn't, maybe Ishould have said that, maybe I
(07:09):
shouldn't have said that.
Um, and it's back and forth andthere's no resolution, now
you're stuck in a thought loopbecause your brain is trying to
resolve something, it's tryingto fix the problem.
But if there's not a problem tofix, it can't fix it.
Right.
So that's where it keepslooping and looping and looping.
(07:29):
Because maybe it was somethingthat should have been said, but
you feel uncomfortable becauseyou said it.
So now let's deal with that,right?
Because, you know, for peoplepleasers, for overthinkers,
we're always analyzing.
Did we say the right thing?
Did we do the right thing?
Right.
So you start doing a littlereality testing.
Well, was that the right thingto say?
(07:51):
Yes.
Okay, but you still shouldn'thave said it.
Well, why shouldn't I have saidit?
And now, now you're getting tothe why am I uncomfortable that
I set a limit or I saidsomething?
Now you're dealing with that,which is the real issue and not
the what was said.
It was sort of the setting theboundary or standing up for
yourself.
(08:11):
See the difference?
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Yes.
Okay.
Just asking the why to get tolike the deeper meaning of it.
Okay.
Right.
Speaker (08:19):
That whole idea of, you know, you keep peeling back the
onion, right?
Because if the first onedoesn't resolve the why, you
haven't gotten to the realreason.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
You talk about exploring someone's anxiety
origin story, and you kind oftouched on that in the
beginning.
Um, so what does that mean?
And like how like when you dothat with your patients or your,
do you call them patients orclients?
Clients.
Clients.
Patience is very my husband's adoctor, uh a dentist, and so
I'm used to saying the wordpatience.
Yeah.
Um like like talk me throughlike what you do to to go way
(08:54):
back and figure out where thisanxiety stems from.
Speaker (08:58):
Okay.
Well, I always start withhelping people to understand
that going back is not aboutblaming or shaming, right?
Because we're not looking topoint fingers at someone and
say, see, this is your fault.
This is, you know, what you didto me, but to gain an
understanding.
Okay.
So that's step one isunderstand that this is this is
(09:22):
about just bringing awareness.
And then we just start to talkabout what, like, when was the
first time you felt that way?
Where, what was happening?
How long have you felt thisway?
And you sort of just sort ofkeep going back, like people
start to identify a story.
Oh, I remember when.
(09:42):
Because those stories that arereally um, you know, really
powerful stick with you.
You know, like I remember thisteacher who was always hard on
me and always telling me, youknow, that I could do better and
that I wasn't trying hardenough.
Those are powerful messagesthat stick with you.
And so then you start doingmore, and and and it's never
(10:06):
enough because this lady's voiceis always in your head saying,
You need to try harder.
Yeah.
Right.
Or, you know, maybe it's aparent who had very high
expectations um of what youneeded to accomplish because you
needed to do better than theydid.
You know, so again, it's notanything that anyone did to be
(10:27):
destructive, but it's the wayyou interpreted it.
So it's really going back tofigure out where that story
started.
Yeah.
I like sometimes it's easier tofind, sometimes it's not.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Yeah, yeah.
I like how you say not goingback to blame.
You know, that's something thatI had to learn um a while ago
because I was kind of stuck inthat blame, blame, blame.
And once you let that go, youcan really truly start changing
internally, like start really umunderstanding because the
blame, the blaming I foundcreates a lot of anger.
(11:02):
A lot, a lot of anger.
So um I like that that that'syour approach.
Um, it was hard for me to dothat.
Speaker (11:09):
There are situations, you know, where there is blame
to go around, right?
These aren't the situations I'mtalking about.
Um, you know, I'm not talkingabout kids that were neglected
or abused.
Of course.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yes, yes.
Speaker (11:21):
The, you know, they're regular.
So I always like to make thatclear that you know, yeah,
there's a difference.
Yeah, but you're right, becausethe the blaming just gets you
stuck in anger and and again,looping, like you recognize it,
be angry for a little while, butthen move forward.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Speaker (11:41):
Staying angry is detrimental to you.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yes.
Speaker (11:43):
The other person's moved on.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Yes.
So speaking of stuck, like whensomeone is kind of stuck in
those patterns, what are somesteps that you tell people to
start with?
If you're just kind of looping,angry, hating the past, blaming
your parents, blaming whoever,where do we start to kind of
break those patterns?
Speaker (12:06):
Right.
Well, we start with recognizingwhat the pattern is doing and
not doing.
Okay.
So is the pattern helpful?
Most times it's not, right?
People pleasing patterns,imposter syndrome patterns don't
usually they have strengthswithin them, but the pattern
itself is not usually helpful.
So let's start to look at whathappens when that pattern is
(12:32):
activated, right?
What do you do?
How do you think?
Now let's interrupt thosethoughts because you need to
understand why the thoughts arethere and how they influence
your behavior.
So this is different thanlooking in a mirror and saying,
I'm okay, I've got this, I knowwhat I'm doing, right?
Those don't work until you'vedone this the um the work below
(12:57):
the surface, right?
Because you've got to believethat you can do it.
Um, and so you start withsomething simple.
When is the pattern activated?
Um, when I have troublesetting, let's understand why
you're having trouble settingboundaries.
What are you afraid willhappen?
And for a lot of people, it'sthat I'll damage the
(13:19):
relationship.
Right.
Okay, so let's look at that.
When what makes you thinkyou'll damage the relationship?
Do you want to keep arelationship that um you have to
put more effort into than theother person does?
Right.
Because if we take that storyof going back to the the middle
school bully, you know, you hadto do that to keep the
(13:42):
relationship because at thatpoint, those kinds of
relationships were so important,you know, would make or break
you socially in school.
So it was an adaptive pattern,made sense then.
But now what you're finding isthat all I'm doing is attracting
people that need things fromme.
And people, you know, not thepeople that are giving and
taking, like a good relationshipshould be.
(14:04):
So when you understand what thereal fear is that's generating
the behavior, then you can startto look at things with a new
perspective.
Oh, I have the choice.
Do I want to keep thisrelationship?
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah.
Is it I find that um it's moredifficult when it's more like
family members versus friends.
How do you how do you um kindof guide people through family
dynamics?
Speaker (14:35):
Right, because the difference with family is, I
mean, some people do and somecases require it, but in
general, we can't get rid of ourfamilies, right?
Yeah.
You we we see them when they'rethere at holidays, but we can
still change the expectationthat we have of them and that
they have of us, right?
(14:56):
So sometimes it's retrainingpeople, right?
Because part of the problemwith people pleasing is we have
taught people how to interactwith us.
We've taught them that, okay,I'm gonna be the go-to person,
I'm gonna be the one that solvesall the problems, I'm gonna be,
right?
And so it's learning to changethat dynamic.
(15:17):
And how can I pull back, youknow, not be the first one to
raise my hand, not be the one tosolve the problem.
And then people will begin tointeract differently with you.
It takes time because again,these things didn't happen
overnight, so they don't getfixed overnight.
You know, there are no quickfixes, but you know, maybe um,
(15:38):
you know, if you if you havethat kind of relationship with a
sister who's always coming toyou for advice, you very slowly
stop fixing and start maybeasking more questions, sort of
turning it back over to them orrecognizing this is one thing I
had to learn.
I've got four sisters, so Iknow sisters.
Um, you know, not all the timewhen they come for advice do
(16:03):
they want advice.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Oh, yeah, I've learned that.
Speaker (16:06):
Right?
Solve it all, right?
Yeah, and so to very slowlystop solving, because then all
they do is get annoyed becausethey don't like your solution or
whatever, to just start askingquestions like, well, what do
you think you should do?
You know, or just bereflective.
Oh, that sounds like that'sreally hard.
(16:28):
And then they have to startfixing it for themselves.
Yeah, yeah.
And you're preserving therelationship because they're not
mad at you for coming up with asolution or saying something
they didn't want to hear.
Um, and you're not feelingresponsible for fixing them.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
I um I feel like I am a recovering people pleaser.
I'm not I I I used I used tobe, and um I've just I've grown
out of it.
I think with the help of myhusband, he is not a people
pleaser at all.
And so just learning from him.
Why do you think it's difficultfor people to say no?
(17:09):
And how can we kind of get pastthat?
Like what do we what can we doto feel comfortable saying no to
people?
Speaker (17:18):
Well, we have to understand why we're afraid of
saying no, right?
Like what are we afraid isgonna happen?
And for a lot of women, it's asit's as simple and complex as
guilt, right?
We were told to be good girls,to do for others, to give of
yourself, you know, this wholerole of being the caregiver, the
(17:41):
nurturer.
Um and so we're coming upagainst this belief that we,
okay, so if I don't do this,then what does that mean?
Does that mean I'm selfish, I'mself-centered, I'm not kind?
And so when you can understandthat, oh, I can set limits at
times and be supportive and behelpful, or yeah, I can be
(18:08):
selfish, you know, that it'sokay.
If people are asking me to dothings that I don't really want
to do, I do have the right tosay no.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah.
Speaker (18:17):
I've learned and then work through the guilt because
that feeling is coming.
So let's acknowledge that thefeeling is coming and how are
you gonna work through it?
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah.
I've I've learned that majorityof the people accept the no
graciously.
What about what do you tellpeople like, what if someone
comes to you and says, Well, Isaid no, and the person got so
mad, and you know, there's justsome people that don't want to
hear that and will keep pushingand pushing and pushing.
Um, how do you deal with thosepeople?
(18:47):
What do you what can I dodifferently?
Speaker (18:50):
Right.
Well, that's where you want totake a good hard look at that
relationship.
Like, what does that mean aboutthat person, that friend, if
they can't take no for ananswer, you know, is this really
all about them?
Right?
Are they giving anyconsideration to you and what
your needs are?
Um, why are they, why do theykeep pushing back?
(19:12):
Because again, we're so used tobeing introspective as women,
right?
That it must be me, must besomething I did, you know, I
have to do this.
But let's reflect back out.
What does this mean about thisperson?
Yeah, and do I want this personin my life if they can't
respect my boundaries?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now again, all sounds easy onthe surface, right?
(19:33):
But it's planning for not onlysetting the boundary, but
following through.
Like, okay, let's figure outwhere your sort of weak point is
gonna be, right?
Where's your breaking pointwhen you're gonna say, Oh, okay,
it's okay, yeah, I'll do it.
And then let's make a plan, youknow, a script, a strategy for
(19:54):
when that happens, because weknow it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
I mean, I've I've conqueredthat.
So, so yeah, that makes senseto me.
Um but do you find it comesback now and again?
Um, every now and then,especially with people that I've
known for when I was in mypeople pleasing face.
Right.
Right.
So um, but but sometimes um I Ithink about it and I'm like,
(20:18):
okay, is this a big deal?
Can I just like do it?
Um half the time it's just it'snot even that serious.
I'm like, okay, I can I can sayyes to that.
Um, but if I'm convicted, yeah,no, I I stick, I stick to it
and they're just gonna have torespect it.
But that also I think comesfrom more security within
myself.
Um, working on, you know,self-confidence has helped a
(20:42):
lot.
Um, and I think that's where alot of this stuff stems from, is
that when you don't feelconfident about who you are
internally, um, that's raw,that's where you kind of get
stuck in in this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um and then boundaries.
You just mentioned boundaries.
I'm all about boundaries.
And we throw this word all overthe place nowadays.
Let's talk about that.
What does that really mean?
(21:04):
Because I feel like it's gottenwatered down with these are my
boundaries and these are myboundaries.
Speaker (21:10):
And I talk to people like, I'm so sick of hearing
about boundaries.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker (21:14):
So think of boundaries as respect, respectful behavior,
right?
Um, how we interact with eachother in a respectful way.
Because sometimes, you know, wehave to do things we don't want
to do, right?
You know, a family membercalls, you know, and they need
help, and you have to do itwhether you really want to or
not, because they're yourfamily, and that's the thing you
(21:36):
should do, right?
That's different than you know,a friend who's who's expecting
too much.
Yeah.
Or, you know, like you said,that person that that doesn't
accept no.
Okay.
Now it's about respect.
And so boundaries should alwaysbe respectful and they should
be things.
(21:56):
So if something makes you feeluncomfortable.
Right.
Then that's a boundary beingviolated.
Um so it's about it's aboutbeing thoughtful, it's about not
overdoing.
It's not uh, you know, don'tlet people in your space that
you don't want in your space,but it's not about oh, I don't
feel like doing it, so I'msetting a boundary.
(22:18):
Because it's about balance too.
Boundaries look different withdifferent people.
That's true.
They look very different withyour mother than they do with
your child, than they do withyour best friend, you know,
who's not as close to, you know,a coworker versus a close
friend.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So we're talking about all these things, and it's
like you said earlier, it'seasier said than done.
Do you give homework or toolsthat people can use when we're
getting anxious when it comes toboundaries, when we're getting
anxious when it comes to all ofthis that we're talking about?
Speaker (22:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
I I love homework becausehomework makes you work on it
between sessions, right?
Because if you don't work onit, it's not going to change.
Yeah.
It's easy, we can be talkingnow, and you're like, yeah, I
got this, right?
But let's talk about thereality.
There's there's a reason you'vebeen doing it this way.
Your brain is now wired to doit this way, right?
(23:13):
And once you have that stimuli,the behavior kicks in, right?
Instantaneously before you'veeven thought about it.
So, you know, some of thestrategies are just slowing
down, you know.
Like it's easy to give someonea script and say, okay, I'm
gonna say, you know, when uh,you know, when my boss asks me
to do something, I'm gonna say,oh, you know, I can't, I don't
(23:35):
have any room on my plate forthat.
Well, maybe you won't say no toyour boss, maybe it's another
coworker, right?
Um, you know, so we hear this alot, like just say this, just
say I don't have time, give metime to think about it.
That's only one piece of theintervention because the rest of
it is, okay, now what are yougonna do when you're feeling
(23:55):
anxious?
What does anxiety look like foryou?
What thoughts are you having?
Okay, how do we counter thosethoughts with a more positive
thought?
Right?
Like, oh, this is gonna make mefeel really selfish.
Okay, are you being selfish ifyou say no?
Um, what makes you feel thatway?
Uh what uh how can you not beselfish to yourself, right?
(24:19):
Like, what's this gonna do toyou?
So we think through all thesethings so that you're prepared
when you actually use that pieceof script, that all the stuff
beneath that script is ready togo.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (24:32):
So understand why predict you're gonna be anxious,
predict that you're gonnahesitate, and then let's plan.
We plan for those so that whenthey happen, you're ready,
you've got the tools.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
I like that.
Speaker (24:46):
And a lot of it is about different thoughts.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah.
Do you go into like um goingback to the self-confidence,
self-trust?
Do you dive into that withpeople?
Like just I because I feel likeonce you are sure of who you
are, all of this stuff, it justmakes it easier to say no and to
and to set your boundaries.
What does that look like, theself-trust and and building
(25:10):
self-confidence?
Speaker (25:12):
Well, I think you're right, because once you
understand yourself, theconfidence naturally follows,
right?
So you're not feeling confidentbecause there's something that
you believe about yourself orthe way you're supposed to be
that gets in the way.
So once you understand that,once you understand why, and
(25:34):
then you give yourselfpermission to be different, you
start to fall into yourauthentic self, right?
Oh, okay, now I can do this.
And you've had experiences thatshow that, you know, the world
isn't gonna burn down becauseyou said no to somebody.
Um, and you start to have thosewhat I call, you know,
restorative experiences.
So you realize, oh, I can dothis and everything's gonna be
(25:58):
okay.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Yeah.
Speaker (25:59):
I mean, maybe I lost this person in my life, but what
I can recognize is that thatwas a good thing.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah.
Speaker (26:05):
That this isn't somebody who was good for me to
have in my life.
So it's not a bad thing.
Where before losing somebodywas a bad thing because it meant
I wasn't good enough.
Yeah.
Right.
Now I know I don't, I I get tomake a choice.
The self-confidence starts tocome from that.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yeah.
No, I have experience from fromlosing friendships like that.
And it and at the time whenyou're going through it, it just
feels so big and so emotional.
And oh my gosh, what did I do?
What have I done?
Like what just happened.
But when you sit back and yourealize, hmm, that that
friendship was not fulfilling mein the in the way that I
(26:44):
thought, or maybe I've growninto a different version of
myself and it worked then, butit doesn't work now.
And so what I like to tellpeople, I mean, I'm not a
clinician or anything, but Imean, I've I've learned it with
my own life, is that man, likeit's freeing, actually.
(27:04):
It's a freeing experience onceyou get through the sadness and
like the like the grief of youknow, of of losing friendships
or relationships.
But I feel like I don't know, Ijust uh it just feels good to
have my own back and to considermyself instead of always
(27:25):
considering others.
Yes, we want to considerothers, but we're no good to
other people if we're not, youknow, there for ourselves.
So yeah.
Speaker (27:33):
So like you said, pay attention to after.
Oh, I feel like you know, thisI'm better, I'm healthier,
right?
This person was not good forme.
And so it's okay.
Yeah, and now you have thatexperience that I can say no,
it's good for me, it's not beingselfish.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (27:53):
The world did not burn down.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Exactly.
And and I still think thosememories and think those
moments.
We had wonderful times, but nowyou know it's time to move on
to something else.
Speaker (28:05):
So friendships are not always permanent, right?
We have different friendshipsat different chapters of our
life.
I mean, we have those wonderfulpeople that walk with us
through all our chapters.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
Exactly.
Speaker (28:17):
But a lot of people are part of a chapter.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Once I learned that and really truly understood it,
um, it makes it doesn't make iteasier.
It does make it easier, but it,you know, we're still humans
and we're still gonna feel bigemotions.
Um, but once we get past that,it's it's not as scary as it
seems.
Speaker (28:34):
It's okay to have those emotions.
Just don't be held captive bythem.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
So if someone is listening and they have no clue
what we're talking about becausethey haven't even started on
step one, they're just lost.
Um, and I've been there.
Like you, I don't know what mypurpose is, I don't know what my
passions are.
Um, I don't well, I think, Ithink, let me go back.
I think a lot of the times weknow we're afraid to voice it
because maybe we're not goodenough.
(29:00):
Or like you said earlier,imposter syndrome.
So let's get into that.
And what do you how do youguide people through that when
they're there's a starting fromlike, I'm lost, I know nothing.
Speaker (29:13):
Well, sometimes it's about going back to when did you
not feel lost?
Like, so what was going on?
What were the good things thatwere happening?
What um, and then how did youget off course?
Right.
Because chances are there therewas a message there that told
you, you know, like I wanted totake path A, but I didn't
(29:36):
believe enough in myself, so Itook path B.
Right.
So let's figure out why youdidn't do that.
You know, what are what arethose messages that are telling
you you can't have path A?
Because it's aboutunderstanding what's how we're
getting in our own way, how ourthoughts are getting in our own
way.
What are you, what are youpassionate about?
(29:57):
What, you know, start with thevery basics, like um, we sort of
used to take those personalityquizzes in school.
And if you're good at this,this would be the kind of job
you would take, you know.
So you just start askingquestions about what are you
passionate about?
What were you passionate about?
Why aren't you passionate aboutthat anymore?
Because in there, you're goingto come up with a theme of
(30:20):
what's getting in the way.
And then once again, you youget rid of those things, you
have the emotional energy andthe self-confidence to do it.
It's always about awareness.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
I think with me, it was um choices that I made that
took me down a different path.
And it it feels like, oh, well,now I can never go back to
those dreams or those or thoseideals because now we're over
here.
Um, and for me, it was I had adaughter at 21 while I was in
college and trying to figureout, oh, shoot, do I finish
(30:55):
college?
I wanted to be a journalist.
I can't be a journalist at 21with a baby.
Those were the things that Iwas telling myself back then.
And so then it took me down adifferent road.
Years go by and it's just like,yeah, now it's too late to go
back to that.
Speaker (31:09):
Um well, so then you ask yourself, is it really too
late to go back to that?
And if it is, you know, what'ssomething adjacent to that?
Right.
Like, what was it aboutjournalism that got me excited?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
This, what we're doing right now, talking to
people and connecting.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (31:28):
And so you found a way to do that.
Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
That's true.
Yeah.
Speaker (31:31):
Right.
So so you the passion is theconnecting with people.
The the avenue you had in frontof you was journalism, but now
you found a different way to doit.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (31:42):
So sometimes it's just about finding the neck something
that fits now.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Exactly.
I thought about it, but nowthat we're talking about it,
yeah, that's true.
That's true.
I found a different way, yeah.
Um, so it's never too late, iswhat you're saying.
It's never too late.
Never too late.
What does like living like ahealthy, mentally healthy life,
what does that look like forpeople that think it should be
(32:08):
perfect?
Because obviously we all knowit's not going to be perfect.
Yeah.
So what's the alternative toperfection?
Speaker (32:15):
Well, it's understanding that, right?
That there is no perfect life.
Right.
There's there's what we makeand how we find happiness within
our life.
And it starts also with withnot comparing yourself to other
people.
Right.
Oh my gosh.
Social media has its has itsadvantages, but it it gives
(32:39):
this, you know, fake impressionthat people's lives are one way
than another.
So I encourage people, ifthey're feeling like, oh,
so-and-so's life is better thanmine, oh, look at what she's
doing, look behind the curtain,you know.
Is it really that good?
Is it real?
Um are they struggling in otherareas so that they're balancing
(33:04):
their life a certain way, justlike you're balancing your life
a certain way.
What are they doing?
And is that something that youcan take on?
You know, like are they, youknow, being grateful for the
things that they have instead ofworrying about what they don't
have?
That's a good quality you canpick up from someone.
So it's understanding thatperfection doesn't exist.
(33:27):
Right.
So what would what makes youhappy?
What, you know, how are youhaving good relationships in
your life?
Are you are you connecting withthe right people?
That's a good mentally healthylifestyle.
You know, it doesn't mean youhave the big house, the fancy
car, you know, the three kidsdressed perfectly and nobody
(33:49):
ever gets dirty and we lookgreat in camera, you know, it's
it's what makes you happy andnot and not comparing, not
comparing, because that's wherethat's where the unhappiness
lurks.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
Yeah.
I I try to tell my um my kids,because I have I have three
kids, and then the youngest,when she was young, like a lot
younger, she's 15.
Um, but when she was like inelementary school, she did a lot
of that comparing.
And what I would tell her, it'slike we all have our own gifts.
She'd be like, oh, I wish Icould sing, or I wish I could do
that, or I wish I.
(34:23):
And I'm like, well, I mean,there's certain things that we
were not given those gifts ortalents, but let's look at what
you were given and let's workwith that.
And some things can be learned,like, okay, you want to learn
how to play the guitar orwhatever, like that can be
learned.
Um, you know, I know somepeople are just born just gifted
that way, and those are thepeople that she looks at, but
(34:45):
I'm like, stop comparing, let'sstop this.
So when we realize we just weall have a gift, all of us.
And we just have to just tapinto that and not be envious, be
excited for other people'sgifts.
Like, look at them, look atthem go.
Good for them.
Speaker (35:02):
Right.
And that's a beautiful way toto teach, especially girls, to
be like celebrate your friends'success.
Yes.
You know, don't be jealous,don't be bitter.
Um, celebrate their successbecause they'll celebrate your
success.
And you know, maybe your giftisn't as outspoken as a
beautiful singing voice.
(35:23):
Let's find the meaning in whatyour gift is.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Exactly.
Like I wanted the gift ofsinging, and I was not given
that gift.
I think God knew what he wasdoing when he I said, I would
be, I would be just all over theplace with my with my voice.
Speaker (35:38):
Um, yeah, my daughter has an amazing singing voice.
She was a professional musicianfor a while, and they sing and
they sing the baby to bed, andmy granddaughter says, Mimi,
sing me a song.
I'm like, uh-uh, Mimi doesn'tsing.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
I'm like, we can sing, it's just not gonna sound
good while reading another book.
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
What's the belief that youspecifically uh uh that you had
to unlearn to become the personyou are today?
Speaker (36:14):
Let's let's I had to unlearn a lot of people pleasing
and a lot of imposter syndrome.
You know, I mean I I grew up ina small town with a big family,
you know, everyone went to thesame school, everyone had the
same teachers, you know.
So you sort of get pigeonholedinto this is the way this family
(36:35):
behaves, this is the friendsthis family has, you know, and
so I had to learn to be my ownperson, yeah, you know, figure
out who I was separate from thisbig great family that I had,
you know, who was I within that?
Um and then, you know, ofcourse, being raised with so
(36:57):
many people, people pleasingjust became sort of a natural,
like, let's keep everyone happy,let's keep everything moving
smoothly.
Um, and so those are thingsthat I've I've had to get over.
I've had to learn to say no topeople, right?
Had to learn to put my ownneeds first.
(37:18):
And like you said, once you geton the other side of that, it
feels like, oh, well, thatshouldn't have been that hard.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yeah, I should have been doing this a long time ago.
Yeah.
Speaker (37:28):
Right.
But it really was, it reallywas a journey.
I mean, even now, sometimes Imean, I worked for 30 years.
I have a ton of experience indifferent areas, and sometimes I
think, why is anyone coming tome?
What do I know?
Yeah, right.
Because I'm not A, B, or C,right?
That comparison that comes backin, and that's when you have to
(37:52):
go back to those old skills.
Remind yourself, don't compareyourself to other people.
You know, you are you and youhave a message to give.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
Yeah.
Is that where you think?
Because I wanted to talk aboutimposter syndrome.
Is that where you think itstems from?
Is that we're comparingourselves to other people, and
so we're feel we feel like we'renot meant to be doing what
we're doing.
Okay.
Speaker (38:15):
Right.
You know, someone is prettierthan me, someone is skinnier
than me, someone is moreintelligent than me, you know,
someone is more artistic thanme, right?
It's always that comparison.
So I'm comparing myself toother people.
Like we're talking about otherpeople's talents, other people's
gifts and not believing in myown.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker (38:37):
That I somehow have to, I have to prove what you didn't
have to prove, you know, butshe didn't have to prove.
I have to prove, prove, prove,prove.
And I've spent so much timeproving that I never get to the
the finish line of I'm here,I've arrived.
I know, I have, I know enough.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I had to shake that off, uh, that whole imposter
syndrome thing.
Cause you know, when I startedthe podcast, I'm like, there's
like thousands and thousands ofpodcasts, like, who am I to
start one?
And who's gonna want to talk tome?
Um, but once you get past thatand realize there's room for
everybody, there's room foreverybody, and everyone's
(39:18):
running their own race and theirown journey, and just kind of
stay focused on on your path.
And that's helped a lot becauseI was suffering from that quite
a bit, actually.
Speaker (39:31):
Like, who am I?
And there's right, and there'swhere you have people to compare
yourself to, right?
Because there's just so muchout there.
It's the same when I went intolife coaching.
Like I'm I've been a therapist,you know, my whole adult life.
This was different.
And again, there are so manylife coaches out there.
(39:52):
Um, and I don't have a specificlife coach training.
So I was telling myself, Idon't belong in this space
without these trainings.
Then I started looking into thetrainings, and they're
everything I've been doing andlearning.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Yeah.
Speaker (40:09):
You know, so sometimes it's it's taking a look and
being like, oh yeah, okay, Ialready know that.
Yeah.
Right.
For you, you know, I have theexperience, the interest, the
desire to interact with people.
You know, I have thisjournalist instinct.
So I'm gonna bring my own spinto my podcast and it's gonna
find its audience.
(40:30):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Is there anything else that we haven't touched
touched on that you would wantto share with us?
Speaker (40:39):
No, I think it's really about starting with awareness
and and being being open tolearning why you haven't gotten
to where you want to be.
Right.
Instead of saying, it's toolate, I should have.
Um but if you're you know, ifyou're really wanting to
understand your patterns and youwant to look at them as not
(41:03):
negative, right?
We can, you know, peoplepleasing gets termed as a
negative, right?
Like that's a negative.
But there's a reason, right?
So, you know, if you're ifyou're looking to understand the
why, then you know, this is thekind of work you want to do.
So you can figure out what yournext chapter is.
(41:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
Where can people connect with you, learn about
you?
Speaker (41:27):
You can connect through my website, which is aligned
core life coaching.
Um, I'm on Instagram, Facebook,LinkedIn.
Yeah, my name is difficult tospell, but it's
f-l-e-c-h-a-us-s.
Um, it's difficult to pronouncetoo.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
I'll make sure to to add all of that information to
the show, to the notes, and thenwhen I start posting on social
media, I'll make sure to tag youin them.
Speaker (41:54):
Yeah, and people can, you know, schedule a call.
And because I always encouragepeople to have a call first, you
know, and and talk to severaldifferent people.
Like if you want to get intolife coaching, talk to a couple
of different life coaches,especially if you, you know,
coming at it from a peoplepleaser, an imposter syndrome,
you know, you're going to beeasily, it's going to be hard to
(42:16):
say no to somebody, right?
Yeah.
But schedule three calls andand plan on not answering,
right?
People want you to answer rightaway, right?
They want you to make adecision right then and there.
But plan on having three callsand then comparing how did I
feel when I talked to thatperson?
Um, did I feel like I was beinglistened to?
(42:37):
Did I feel like I was beingsold something?
Because there's a lot of peopleout there that um are in it for
the wrong reasons.
So lean into your gut instinctabout that.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
I like that.
I like that.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
This was fun.
I'm so glad we connectedfinally.
Yes.
Finally.
Yeah, thank you so much.
I love this conversation.
I love talking about this kindof stuff because I've gone
through it myself.
I still go through things, andand I love to like get all the
(43:11):
information so that I can start,you know, using it in my own
life.
So I appreciate it.
Speaker (43:16):
Best of luck to your son.
He will do great in his newschool.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
But I think he's gonna be amazing.
Transition.
I think he's always been thisway.
He's an introvert, like he'sthe true definition of an
introvert.
But yeah, I think he'll befine.
Um, and we've gone through thisbefore with the overthinking.
So it's just another phase ofoverthinking.
Yeah.
Right.
Speaker (43:37):
Because now he's gonna have to meet all these new
people, this poor introvert.
Yes.
Yeah, just help him recognizehis skills, his gifts that he
brings.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Exactly.
Exactly.
Well, I appreciate you.
Thank you so much.
This was fun.
Yes, this was so fun.
Thank you so much, Katherine.
All right, take care.
All right, take care.
I'll leave you with this.
Fill your own cup first, notout of selfishness, but out of
necessity.
You deserve to be nourished,not drained.
(44:05):
You deserve to be whole, nothalf-given.
The world doesn't need yourexhaustion, it needs your
overflow.
Thank you so much for listeningto Virago247.
If you haven't done so already,go ahead and hit that subscribe
button and please give usfive-star ratings.
(44:27):
Also, don't forget to follow uson Instagram at Virago24
underscore seven and on Facebookat Virago24 slash 7.
And just connect with us andshare your story.
We'd love to hear from you.
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