June 17, 2025 • 36 mins
How does creativity manifest in unexpected places? Creative out-of-the-box editor Colleen Kern joins us to explore creativity as our essential "fifth state of being" alongside physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual dimensions.
Colleen shares how she transitioned from the rigid world of accounting to embracing creative editing work, helping authors clarify their vision and refine their message. She reveals the cathartic journey authors experience when birthing a book, from overcoming imposter syndrome to accepting their wisdom and finding their authentic voice. Through this process, Colleen witnesses profound personal transformation as writers step into the vulnerability of sharing their stories.
Discovering her own neurodivergence revolutionized her approach to work, leading her to find communities that embrace different ways of creating and producing. Her insights on "spoon theory" and energy management offer a valuable perspective for anyone balancing creative pursuits with energy-limiting conditions.
Her philosophy of imperfection - giving herself "permission to use every page badly" in her sketchbook and embracing creativity without self-judgment. Her thoughts on AI in writing reveal both its potential as an ideation tool and its limitations in capturing the uniquely human frequency that comes through authentic creative expression.
Connect with Colleen at writeditnetc.com, on LinkedIn, and sign up for her upcoming newsletter.
Discover her upcoming membership program "Embrace" focused on leadership, creativity, spirituality and capacity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Colleen, thank you so much for joining me on.
We Woke Up Like this today andwe've had this on the books for
a while, so I'm really excitedto dive into this conversation
with you all about creativityand creative expression, and you
are definitely one of the mostcreative women that I know, so I
want to ask you what creativitymeans to you and why is it such
(00:28):
an important aspect of yourhumanness.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Such a loaded question.
Creativity, for me, issimplified, really, and it's
really come back into just beingable to have free expression.
I had to really re-embrace mycreative spirit and allow myself
to really play with what iscreativity and how can I express
it.
Once I kind of realized, youknow what, I'm not fitting into
(00:55):
this corporate model, I'm notfitting into this standard.
Here's what you do cookiecutter life.
And so creativity has beenalways part of my life.
I've always played with my hair.
We were kind of talking beforethis about my hair.
I've always been one of thosepeople like, eh, it'll grow back
, like it'll be fine.
So I've played with color, I'veplayed with different cuts, and
(01:15):
so that part of creativeexpression has always been part
of my life.
And as I've gotten older,really that, okay, how can I
express myself through color inmy clothing?
How can I express myselfthrough these different avenues?
And then eventually then becamepart of my work and now a
full-time editor, like what Ilove to do, and they're like, oh
, editing, how creative is that?
(01:35):
But helping someone really getthat last like 20% of where they
were to where they want to be.
There's a lot, lot ofcreativity in that and I love it
um, and I think peoplecomplicate it.
They make it seem like this bigscary thing and it's not, it's
just expression.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I love a different recipe which I don't cook, but
making a recipe can becreativity yeah, I love that and
I feel like a lot of peoplewill say I'm not creative.
I'll hear that a lot.
I'm not creative and I'm likeeverything you do is creative
because everything you're doingis creating something.
You're always creating aneffect right from everything
(02:15):
that you're doing.
And I love the idea of what youjust said about putting
creativity into editing, becauseediting seems like it would be
just such a analytical you haveto notice all the details kind
of work.
So tell me how you're applyingyour creative genius into the
editing work that you do.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
There's a lot of analytical to the editing, to
note rules and all the things,but you also have to know when
to break the rule.
So there's a lot of creativityand being like, yeah, we can
break that rule.
Yeah, that makes sense there,and helping people really be
like okay, are you using thatword to express this or this?
Like, what are you trying toconvey?
Because we can use a differentword.
(02:56):
So there's a lot of creativitythere.
That comes with being able toclarify someone's message and be
able to clarify that vision, tocreate clarity in someone's
work.
I think one of my favoritethings to do is help someone who
is very verbose in theirwriting to take it and make it
clearer and more concise, whichis, for a lot of people, very
challenging, very, verychallenging to take out the
(03:18):
excess words and be like oh, butthat's how I talk, because
converting how you talk into howyou write can be very
challenging.
So we have a lot of ums, a lotof like, a lot of filler words
that we say that don't convertinto writings, knowing when to
take those out and knowing whenit does actually convert into
something where it's like oh, weneeded that there because that
conveys that moment ofuncertainty, or you know any of
(03:39):
those things, or we don't needthat there because you are very
certain.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So being able to be that like analytically creative,
so much fun for me.
I just love it and I thinkthat's such a gift to bring that
creative mind into analyticalwork and it sounds to me like
when you're editing a book andyou're helping someone to edit
something, that you're actuallymore like a creative partner
who's also noticing you know,here's an error, here's where
you did this, here's where youcould do that.
But I love that.
I love that idea of havingsomebody else's eyeballs and
(04:10):
their creative brain on yourwriting and your work to be able
to say here's an alternative ormore simple way of saying this
thing that gets your pointacross maybe even better, more
effectively.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Right, yeah, and that's what I love about what I
do, because I love to do that.
And it's funny because there'sa lot of coaching in editing and
I was really leaning away fromthe concept of coaching at all.
I was talking to Betsy Clarkabout it.
I'm like I don't know if I wantto do coaching and she's like
what do you do?
And I was like saying the samethings back to her.
(04:43):
She's like you are a coach.
And I was like, oh, so Istarted adding book coaching
into my offerings and it's justfun to help people be like, oh,
I do, that is the book.
I do have a framework, I doknow what I want to talk about,
like, oh my gosh, I could say 30to 60,000 words about something
and to pull that out of peopleand have them like kind of be
(05:04):
like, yeah, all right, let's go,let's do it.
It's just so much fun for mebecause I love thinking outside
the box and be able to connectthe dots for people on certain
things that they have been tooclose to.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Would you help somebody if they have an idea
and they want to write a book orthey know something that they
want to write about, Would youhelp them structure the content
of the book, how you would layit out, what the chapters might
look like?
That kind of thing for somebody.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I just started doing that this year and it's
super fun.
People are like well, I havethe idea, and helping them
really figure out how easy itcould be to walk beside them.
And it's simple in the factthat, like, once you have your
framework, once you know whatyou want to write about, where
you want to take the reader,it's a lot easier to be like oh
yeah, I know what I'm talkingabout.
And a lot of people think thatthey have to be an excellent
writer or they have to have knowall the things, they have to
(05:52):
know all the grammar rules inorder to do things.
That's why we have editors Get50% of the way there.
We be like this chapter wouldbe better up here earlier in the
book and be able to help peoplereally like no, you can do it,
you can put together a book ifyou want to.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So we're talking about editing and hiring
somebody for editing.
So I wanted to just say aboutthat as a person who recently
finally hired a VA to do thethings that you know that she
does better than me, which arethose detail oriented things and
making sure this gets done andthat gets done, and saving time
(06:33):
for my creative work, which iswhat I'm the best at.
So I think there's so muchvalue in hiring somebody to do
those things, but also having anextra set of eyes I think is
amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, you know, editing is justpart of the process and there's
different levels of editing, butit's so helpful and even if,
like you, are an excellent,excellent writer, I just worked
with someone who is a technicalwriter and she writes a lot, but
it was her first book that shewas writing.
That was not a technical book,so it was just like regular
(07:07):
memoir type book.
We're writing so, so good.
But she was very verbose, veryverbose.
So we cut a lot and we had totrim stuff and be like all right
, where are you taking thereader?
So hers was more.
We were really just tweakingher message and being like where
do you want to change things?
That wasn't focused as much oncorrecting sentence structure or
(07:29):
any of that stuff, but it wasreally focused on her message
and clarifying and refining andpolishing that message.
Where I had another book I'veworked on just recently where
she did a complete download, shejust got the book.
She's based on energy healingand she just downloaded the
whole book, sent it to us.
So it required a lot ofrestructuring and a lot of more
(07:51):
work in terms of figuring outall right, how do we want to
structure the book.
But the important thing was isthat she got it all down, so she
had all the things that shewanted down, so that we could
then be like okay, now how do wemassage and move it around and
make sure that the words areright?
So that was a longer editingprocess, but it's just.
(08:13):
It's so fascinating to see howpeople give them one little
nugget of information or onelittle what.
If you did, I think you can seetheir minds explode with
creativity and just be like oh,I didn't even think about, and
then all this stuff come out.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
What do you find in working with people who are
writing books or like birthing abook, because I think it's
really a birthing process right,when you're letting this whole
creation come out of you andthrough you, and especially
through the medium of words.
What do you find happens topeople in that process?
Do you see a growth change, asoul growth change?
What happens with peoplethrough the creation like that?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
gosh.
So it's very cathartic,especially non because I work
primarily with non-fictionauthors and primarily people are
writing memoirs orself-development, spiritual
development kind of books, andso it's very cathartic, you know
, especially because some ofthem are just writing because
they need to get the story out.
Here's where I was and how Igot through whatever this was,
(09:17):
and I need to share that.
Someone else can do this too,and so watching that happen is
just so beautiful.
And then I was at a writerretreat last month and every
author was in a different stageof where their book was Right at
the beginning and other peoplewere putting their final pieces
together and everybody was Ican't believe I'm doing this, or
(09:39):
this is where I'm at, or it'sbook number two.
I can't believe this is where Iam.
And there's this kind ofovercoming an imposter syndrome
that happens for a lot of people.
Oh my God, I can do this.
Oh my God, I do have all thisknowledge and wisdom inside of
me to share with people and Iwork with some first-time
authors and when they comethrough they're all of a sudden
(09:59):
there's an acceptance of theirwisdom and who they want to be,
which is really really beautiful.
Some people, they're reallyfast and they're able to put
something out and get it writtenin like three months or less,
and all of those people who areable to buckle down and do it.
I've worked with authors thatwere writing for 25 years and
tweaking their book over andover and over again.
(10:20):
So the stepping into that trustto have someone else even look
at it is like handing over yourbaby.
You're just like here's mychild, please don't kill it.
Trusting someone with somethingyou put your heart and soul
into and it's just beautiful towatch that.
And at the end there's justthis I did it.
Superman pose.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I did it.
I love that and it's truebecause there's so much
vulnerability when you'rewriting something and putting it
out there and you're sharingyour knowledge and you're giving
like in essence, you're givingaway like everything that you
know that's inside of you, andthen you're handing it over to a
stranger, in essence, and goingwhat do you think?
How can you help me make thisbetter?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Here's my life story and you're going to say, hey, no
, we got to change this, pullthis out of here, that's not
important.
And that's super scary,especially in nonfiction,
because you're putting youridentity on paper for the world
to see.
Whenever you're putting apersonal story into your work,
or even when you're putting itinto your marketing materials,
(11:25):
it's kind of scary.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
You're putting your identity out there for the world
to see and it's like you cantake it in front of the world.
Right, it's like, here I amhere's all of it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, it's, it's unnerving, but even like, the
books that I've been publishedin were um collaboration books,
so I just did a chapter, butit's something very scary.
That information about me, thatpart of my story, is out there.
Forever Forever Ever and everand ever.
And it's unnerving.
I've shared my spiritualjourney.
I've shared my stepping intoconfidence journey.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I know and I find that I know for me I mean, I
always share all my my wholelife journey is an open book
really.
But I find that, you know, noneof us are alone in the journey
that we're walking.
There's always somebody, ormore than one somebody who
relates to your story, becausethey're sharing the same story.
I once heard a long time agothat there's only seven stories
in the whole world, soeveryone's sharing one of seven
(12:18):
stories.
So, as a person who reads a lotand edits a lot, do you think
that's true?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it's pretty similar.
We're actually at the writer'sretreat.
We were talking because therewas a bunch of people were
writing about spiritual issuesand we were sitting around a
campfire and someone was like Ithink that we all have to go
through something to get to thispoint and I was like, yeah,
everyone has that moment, thattrauma, that something that
(12:44):
kicks you into.
Okay, I need to be aware, Ineed to know more, I need to
focus on this, I need to figureout what this higher power, the
meaning of my life is, and Ithink without that, if
everything is sunshine and roses, why would you look deeper?
If everything's going well,what's the purpose?
So I think that there's a lotof overlap in people's stories,
(13:09):
a lot of overlap.
The only thing that reallychanges is the location, the
time, the age that people aregoing through things, and you
see yourself in the stories alot, which is super hard not to
go.
We're going to be best friendsnow, parts of their stories,
because I'm seeing that, butthey're not seeing any of my
life.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, and the difference is like how I mean,
like even growing up in a family, when you have siblings and you
go you're going throughessentially the same traumas,
but how you each interpret thosetraumas and how they affect you
and how you live with them andhow you process them is so
different for each and everyperson.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So different and you think about who your parents
were At each stage of yoursiblings lives and completely
different.
You're being raised bydifferent parents Than your
siblings, at different ages.
So true, and my cousin and Iwere talking about that and how
her experience with her parentsas the eldest Is very different
from the youngest, who had, Ithink, two or three years when
(14:06):
she was the only one in thehouse, so I'm an only child, so
I don't know, you know.
So her experience is verydifferent than the elders.
So it's all the same, butdifferent.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, I came across this thing recently that
I really loved, that I wanted tobring up to you, and it was the
five states of being.
And so they said that the firstone states of being, and so
they said that the first one, ofcourse, is physical, mental,
emotional, spiritual, but thefifth state of being is creative
.
And I really loved thinkingabout our creativity as humans
(14:38):
as our fifth state of being andwhat that means and what that
looks like.
And I'm curious with you fromyour standpoint and the work
that you do and working with allthese creative people who are
putting all this work out in theworld, and you yourself being a
creative, how that lands foryou.
And I can just see your brainlike digesting that right now
and how you're putting that in.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I love that because you think that artists are like
the canary in the coal mine.
The canary in the coal mine,like art, is the reflection of
life in terms of books, physicalart, in terms of paintings and
stuff that reflect thechallenges of life, that reflect
what's happening in in life.
Satire, reflecting thechallenges of the political and
(15:24):
people in power.
There's just so much that whenyou're able to just sit there
and create, there's a lot offreedom in that too.
I love that because it'sdefinitely a different state of
being and it's close tomanifestation as well.
To manifest, you have to be ina state of believing you can
create and that everything weneed is here already.
(15:46):
That's.
Felicia Searcy says that.
You know I love her example.
I just she spoke last week atmy chapter of eWomen, so I have
this example in my mind.
She uses the example ofairplanes.
We've always been able to fly.
The materials have always beenhere, but you know, you need to
be able to have the knowledgeand put all the things together
(16:07):
in order to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's powerful to sit in and think about that,
because I've always said youknow, you see all these
manifestation coaches and peopleout there, and I'm always like
you're already manifesting.
I always want to say this topeople like you're already doing
it, because I feel like as afifth, as our fifth state of
being, like I don't have tothink about my body, it is.
I don't have to think about mymental, it is my feelings, they
are my spirituality, it is, andso is being creative, because we
(16:31):
are created to create.
And when we can becomeconscious creators, I feel like
that's when.
That's when the game changes,because we're not changing,
we're not creating out of habit,we're not creating out of those
patterns anymore.
Now we're creating likeinnovatively, like you just said
that we're getting new ideasand having the courage to put
those out in the world, and so Ithink that's what I that just
(16:54):
actually segued in is like whatdo you feel is that link between
the courage to be innovative,to create something new, as
opposed to just creating whatyou've always created?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh my gosh, I've been working on that for the last
year-ish.
I feel like I've been in thisincubation period of okay, we
need to change and innovate anddo things differently.
I went through a lot ofcoaching in 2023, but it was
also the year that I discoveredmy neurodivergence.
So there was a lot of likeshifting, changing all the
(17:24):
things, and I learned last year.
I've been trying to implementlot of like shifting, changing
all the things, and I learnedlast year and I've been trying
to implement all that but Ilearned was meant for my brain.
So I've had to integrate andchange and tweak and take all
that in.
And so it's that courage totrust your intuition, that you
have the knowledge and you havethe wisdom to do and create what
(17:46):
you want to create.
I think it's lifelong practiceto trust your intuition and to
really lean into, to listen tothis little whisper of a voice
that's telling me to do thisthing, but all the experts are
saying, no, don't do that.
I really want to do it.
And it was a really, really hardcognitive dissonance for the
(18:08):
last year and I had to findanother community of
entrepreneurs that were like no,we can do it, that way that it
was a group of neurodivergentand then a group of people with
energy limiting conditions, likemy own, that were like this is
I love the name of it.
They call it the mess ofsuccess summit, and it was just
beautiful, because we are unableto do what everyone else is
(18:30):
capable of because of our energylimitations.
So this is how we make ourbusinesses work with us, not
despite us, not around it, butwith it.
And so I was like, oh my God,it was like this big permission
slip from the universe to justbe like well, yeah, you know
what, this is what I'm capable,this is my capacity, this is
(18:52):
what I want to do.
Let's make it work.
Let's tweak it, let's change it, let's make it work for my
brain and that courage.
Sometimes you just need to seesomeone else is doing it and it
kind of comes back to that.
I need to see that my story isalso out there, that there's
someone else out there that'sdone it so that I can do it.
So sometimes it's just thatPracticing imperfectness.
(19:13):
Oh yeah, then a big part.
I had this little sketchbookthat I gave myself permission to
use.
Every page badly.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I love that.
Use it badly.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That's so perfect Use it badly to stop a design to be
like I hate this.
I'm not going to keep goingjust because I feel like you
have to finish your picture.
I don't like this picture.
It's ugly.
I know New page Very freeing.
Created a lot more of that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, sometimes sometimes you just have to start
again.
Yeah, you know what I love somuch about imperfection and I've
always said I am a happyimperfectionist, like I don't
need everything to be perfect.
Thank god I'm like that, thatI'm like I don't need everything
to be perfect.
That seems really stressful.
To try to put myself or anybody, to put themselves in that
(20:03):
place of self-judgment andself-criticism which I think is
where really perfection iscoming from is that fear of
being judged, and so they'rejudging themselves, and fear of
being criticized, so they'recriticizing themselves, so
nobody else can, and it'sexhausting.
And I also really love how youhave reframed and found a group.
I found a community who arealso in that same reframing of
(20:26):
neurodivergency, and how did youcall being energetically what?
I found a community who arealso in that same reframing of
neurodivergency, and what?
How did you call beingenergetically?
What'd you say?
Energy limitations, limitations.
So what is that?
Because I know a lot of peoplelistening right now are probably
going.
What did she say?
What is that?
Because they're relating to it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, so I have an autoimmune condition and it
causes energy limitations, sothere's days where I just can't
like nope, um.
You know and and so a lot ofpeople with energy limiting
conditions might be familiarwith spoon theory or their
spoonies that it was a theorycreated by someone with ms to
(21:03):
help a friend understand how thedifference between how the same
activity uses a differentamount of energy For her, taking
a shower might take four spoonsand for her friend it might
take one and you might have 12spoons for the whole day and
someone with an energy limitedcondition.
And it goes to the idea wherewe all have the same 24 hours
(21:24):
but we don't, because we allhave different conditions, we
all have different budgets.
We all have the same 24 hours,but we don't Because we all have
different conditions, we allhave different budgets, we all
have different needs that weneed to take care of.
So it's not an accurateone-to-one comparison.
And when you have anenergy-looming condition, I
might have one good hour todayto focus and get something
really done.
What can I do today that isstill going to be working on
(21:46):
funding my life.
I do not have a full battery.
My battery might start at 15%today, and if I give 100%
tomorrow, I will have 2% for theday.
So it's one of those thingswhere you have to learn how to
pace.
There's an idea called likesoft selling, where you're
constantly soft selling, whereyou're just like here's what I
have on offer, and it's justalways this rolling kind of idea
(22:10):
, being able to work with that.
That's also been the work of thelast, since last May, that I
have a device it's calledvisible I'm not affiliated, but
it's called visible and ittracks my heart rate all day and
helps visibly identify thosespoons so I can track my energy
throughout the entire day and belike, oh, I have used my entire
(22:32):
energy budget already at 11.
I need to find some rest, findsome things that are actually
going to give me energy back,which is biggest challenge, um,
and then put aside so where am Iat?
And be able to kind of planthat so you're not going in
these huge peaks and valleys andyou're kind of just like on the
kiddie ride instead of avoidingforever, which is the key.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
You are energetically limiting yourself through
distraction and I know that whenI sit down and set my focus and
I use that silly tomato timerthing, I know that I can super
focus on this one thing as an asanother neurodivergent person
(23:18):
like I can focus on this onething for 30 minutes and not do
anything else and not getdistracted.
And when I do that, it'samazing how much you can get
done in an hour or in 30 minutesof completely focused attention
.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's also giving yourself permission to let
something slide.
Okay, I have this much energyright now, I can sit down and do
part of my project, or I canwash the dishes and, depending
on the state of being that dayor the state of how long the
dishes have been allowed toslide, I can choose one or the
other.
Well, the dishes have beensitting there for three days.
(23:54):
Let's do that.
That's the better activitytoday.
Or we have not sat down to workat all this week.
Let's do that.
So it's figuring out that peakand valley and being able to
know your energy peaks, like,even if you're not in an energy
limiting position, learningwhere your peaks and your
valleys are.
I used the Rise app, whichtracks your sleep and tells you
(24:20):
what your sleep deficit is.
Okay, you're groggy for thisperiod of the morning, and then
here's your first energy peak.
You're going to be in a lullfor this period in the afternoon
and then here's your firstenergy peak.
You're going to be in a lullfor this period in the afternoon
and here's when your energypeaks again.
It was just kind of aninteresting.
I only did the trial Because itgave me I felt like enough
information, but it wasinteresting to be like okay, yes
, I am truly a night owl.
This is when I should besettling down.
(24:43):
I need this much sleep.
This is my first 90 minutes ofmy day.
Don't talk to me.
I will be very groggy andforgetful.
And then where does my energygo from there?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
These are such great tools for people to use and I
always say you can't change whatyou don't track.
I'm the same way.
I love tracking myself.
Otherwise, how will I know?
Because you think you'llremember, but you won't.
It's like you will not rememberhow your last week was.
You remember don't remember howyour last days were, or how
what you ate affected you, orhow your sleep affected you, or
when your energy was high orwhen your energy was low.
I just love these, trackingthese, and I also think that I
(25:20):
feel like neurodivergent people,like for the work that you're
doing, the work that I'm doing.
It so suits us because we getto do a lot of different things
rather than being just stuck inone thing, which my version of
hell would have to be doing liketaxes for eternity.
I would just know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Because that's an old job.
I used to be a CPA and most ofmy experience was in tax and and
the last tax position I waslike kill me now.
I don't want to, never again.
I don't want to be here anymore.
It's very frowned upon to becreative in the accounting world
and they want the numbers to beright.
But even like I was always thatperson that was like this
(26:00):
spreadsheet is ugly, it needs tobe color coded, it needs to be.
Why did someone not make allthe columns the same size?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
So I would be, and then I'd get in trouble for
spending an hour making thespreadsheet pretty, still being
creative even when you're doingwhat you're doing.
Yeah, yeah, oh, my gosh, it wasso funny because I do all the
money and stuff in our house.
I remember my husband oncelooked at the account and he
goes how come there aren't any,there's no change listed on
anything.
And I said, oh, because Ialways round down.
And he goes what?
I said yeah, that way we alwayshave more, there's always a
(26:31):
surplus.
But like but it's just easierto round down Because I found
that at the end, if I'm tryingto reconcile and I'd be like,
why is this thing off by 10cents and I would just lose it,
and so I'm like okay, well, youknow there's a surplus, whatever
(26:52):
, it's good enough, I meanthat's obviously why you hire a
bookkeeper not my zone of geniusand and why I will be hiring
you to work on my book, becausethat helps my book that I'm
writing Well, maybe books, whoknows but the one that I'm in
the middle of now, because it'sthat same thing of like I can do
the brain dump I can be likehere's the whole, here's
everything for my chapters andmy outlines and what I'm
thinking.
But, oh my gosh, to have anotherperson to be able to look at it
and say here's a better way toorganize it, here's how the flow
(27:16):
would work better, in a morelogical way, because I really
love your mind and how it isboth analytical and creative.
I just, I really think that'ssuch a gift.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And that's why I love working with authors and
working in nonfiction.
When I'm allowed to do bookdoctoring, I get to help people
really massage their content andI get to do some of the writing
and I'll be like, oh, let'srewrite this paragraph.
But it's just so much fun forme because I get to use that
analytical side from theaccounting days and really
analyze things.
(27:45):
Then I get to merge into thatcreative zone of okay, how can
we expand this, make this better?
And not only that, but I get tolearn.
I'm getting paid to learn andbecause I'm such a learning nerd
, I have a little bit ofknowledge about so much random
stuff in the world that it'sreally great as an editor
(28:07):
Because I know just enoughusually usually about whatever
it is I'm editing, to be likesomeone can decide that or like
this needs to be a little bitmore information, because a
beginner might not know um,where you're at.
And I was working in one bookwhere I was like um, that's a
great stat, but I think it'soutdated.
I think I saw that that changedrecently.
I think I saw an article onthat and it was one of those
(28:29):
random things that like thatfact checked and it was one of
those random things that I justlove doing.
I love that, colleen?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
how do you feel about people using AI to write their
books for them?
I'm sure you have thoughtsabout this, because I have so
many people who are like I'veseen these things come across my
feed.
That'll be like write your bookin a day with AI and
self-publish today with AI, soI'm very curious about your
feelings and thoughts about that.
(28:58):
As a very creative andanalytical person who probably
also loves and uses AI, I dolove AI To a point to a point
For a disclaimer.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I've been trained in AI.
I've been working with AI forabout three or four years, back
when Jasper just changed toJasper from Jarvis, so I have
experience with it.
I love it as an idea generator.
I love it for when you're likeI need a prompt, I need to
(29:28):
organize this information that Ihave.
It is garbage in, garbage out.
There's a lot of discussioncurrently about how the
copyright laws are going to goin terms of how much has to be
disclosed in your copyrightstatement on what was made with
the AI.
(29:48):
If it is 100% AI generated, itis not copyright a whole what a
word.
Can't use a copyright forsomething that's 100% AI
generated, because someone elsecould do the same thing,
technically right and youwouldn't know who was first.
And so I like it for ideation.
I find that the longer thechain gets in terms of what
(30:11):
you're building with it, theworse it gets.
So quality of the informationreally deteriorates the longer
the chain gets and I'm likewhere'd you get that?
Uh-uh, that's wrong.
So I like it for outlining, Ilike it for assessing a huge
amount of data that isn't wellorganized and be like okay, he
(30:33):
organized this for me, um, butfor a whole book it's.
I know it's been done.
I know someone who has done itjust wrote like one chapter of
his book, um, he used a veryrobust disclaimer at the
beginning.
Then he was like I wrote thisall with ai, just to kind of
show people?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
yeah, you can do it, but now that means that book is
not copyrightable to him becausehe didn't write the book.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's one of those gray areas because at the
beginning it needs to have asignificant human contribution
for it to be copyrightable.
That piece of it because he did, he contributed a lot.
You know know, he gave a lot ofthe prompts, he contributed
that chapter, all the things.
So it's like portions.
It's a whole book copyrightable.
That's kind of where the grayarea is right now.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
That hasn't been settled I would rather not have
the gray areas.
If you're putting out all ofthe time and energy and effort
to share your wisdom andknowledge and your idea with the
world, you don't be don't bewanting to get it done in a day,
don't be wanting to get it donetomorrow, because it does take
time for that beauty, theauthentic nature of our humanity
(31:37):
, to pour through.
We're putting our heart intoour writing and I think that's
something that AI can'tduplicate.
Is that energy of the humanthat comes through in our human
experience and emotion?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I agree.
I mean, it can do some reallygreat things, I think for
articles it does a great job,but the longer the content gets,
the more degraded it gets andthat human element definitely
goes away.
There's a lot less heart infully AI-generated pieces and
(32:08):
you can kind of tell you canPeople who work with energy and
are energetic communicators.
I've noticed that their energycodes kind of come into their
book, they come into thatwriting.
They kind of communicate at ahigher level of more like with
light codes, so similar to lightcodes, so's like there's more
(32:30):
being communicated through theirbook than their words.
So if you add AI into that itdegrades that as well.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I totally agree.
There is like the frequency ofyou comes through in your
writing and if it's a channeledwriting or channeled download
that's coming through, it's soimportant to sit with that and
let that transmission comethrough.
So I just wanted I was curiousabout your feedback on that and
that was actually something Ididn't know about the copyright,
so that's great to know.
Yeah, I just love that.
Colleen, where can people findyou?
(32:57):
Do you have anything?
You said something about slowcontent, things you have
continually going on.
Share where people can find youand what you have going on in
your world.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Sure, so they can find me on LinkedIn or on my
website, which is write, edit,et cetera, which is etccom.
I am currently in build modefor a new thing, my new
membership that is tentativelycalled embrace.
That is really focused aroundembracing these elements of
(33:26):
yourself, all elements ofyourself, and it'll be focused
around the pillars of leadership, creativity, spirituality and
capacity.
They're really the things I'vehad to embrace over the last few
years as an entrepreneur andthe things I think people
struggle with as they're tryingto do something new or they're
trying to step into thatauthentic being of themselves
(33:50):
that they are like.
I don't even know where tostart.
I was a reluctant leader.
I am a reluctant leader.
I'll do it if I have to.
I'll take on type A personalityif I have to, but it's not my
preferred role, so there's goingto be a lot about that and kind
of leading from behind anddifferent leadership styles.
Of course, creativity, which Ican nerd out on, and the
(34:13):
spirituality piece, which Ithink is important for people.
There needs to be for people alot of people a permission to
explore and see what else kindof comes through for them and
what is their truth and whatresonates with them, instead of
just maybe what they've beentaught their whole life.
And so there's a lot there inthat.
That membership it's still.
I'm still percolating, I don'tknow like what all the content
(34:34):
and everything will be, but I'mgoing to be opening up that to
founding members soon.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Beautiful, so people can get on your email list.
Find out when you're ready tolaunch that and to find out all
the things you have going on.
Yeah, beautiful, that soundsamazing.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So necessary.
And then anyone working on abook reach out.
I'm happy to.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, absolutely, and I know you personally and have
known you for a few years andknow how your personality you're
so delightful and easy to workwith, very flexible, but also
just so freaking brilliant.
You are absolutely one of themost brilliant people that I
know, so it's so awesome thatyou're doing this work.
It absolutely one of the mostbrilliant people that I know, so
it's so awesome that you'redoing this work.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
It feels like you've really stepped into this full
expression of your zone ofgenius, really trying to embrace
that expertise and brilliance.
That still feel kind ofuncomfortable and name dropping
all over the place here, but,like Kate had to, kate Payne had
to kind of say her definitionof an expert for me to really
step into it, which is tosomeone who is constantly
(35:35):
learning um and growing.
Yes, and I was like okay,that's me.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yes, the way of mastery says a master is a
student who never stops learning.
And I love that.
Yeah, yeah, because they'rethere to get to.
It's not like you reach someplace and you're like that's it,
I have nothing else to learn, Ihave nothing else to know.
I know everything, I've learnedeverything.
Now I can ascend.
Yeah, I don't see that aspossible in the human form,
especially when we embrace ourcuriosity and our creativity.
(36:03):
Then it's just like there'sthis eternal field waiting for
us to keep going.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Exactly, field waiting for us to keep going.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Exactly, there's just so much so much to learn about
Exactly Well.
Thank you so much for joiningme and this has been such a
great conversation and I reallyencourage anybody who wants to
write a book, who's thinkingabout writing a book, who's in
the process of writing a book,to reach out to you to
investigate and check out whatthat would look like to work
together.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I would love that.
Yes, and I have lots ofconnections to publishers and
different things to help peoplewherever you are in the process
and, yeah, I'd love to chat withanyone.
Beautiful Thank you Colleen.
Thank you, it was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Thank you for listening to we Woke Up Like
this.
Your likes, comments, sharesand subscribes help this content
reach new listeners.
Listeners, and I so appreciateyou.
And remember, Luminous One,that your radiant and magnetic
presence changes the world.
Colleen, thank you so much for joining me on.
We Woke Up Like this today andwe've had this on the books for
a while, so I'm really excitedto dive into this conversation
with you all about creativityand creative expression, and you
are definitely one of the mostcreative women that I know, so I
want to ask you what creativitymeans to you and why is it such
(00:28):
an important aspect of yourhumanness.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Such a loaded question.
Creativity, for me, issimplified, really, and it's
really come back into just beingable to have free expression.
I had to really re-embrace mycreative spirit and allow myself
to really play with what iscreativity and how can I express
it.
Once I kind of realized, youknow what, I'm not fitting into
(00:55):
this corporate model, I'm notfitting into this standard.
Here's what you do cookiecutter life.
And so creativity has beenalways part of my life.
I've always played with my hair.
We were kind of talking beforethis about my hair.
I've always been one of thosepeople like, eh, it'll grow back
, like it'll be fine.
So I've played with color, I'veplayed with different cuts, and
(01:15):
so that part of creativeexpression has always been part
of my life.
And as I've gotten older,really that, okay, how can I
express myself through color inmy clothing?
How can I express myselfthrough these different avenues?
And then eventually then becamepart of my work and now a
full-time editor, like what Ilove to do, and they're like, oh
, editing, how creative is that?
(01:35):
But helping someone really getthat last like 20% of where they
were to where they want to be.
There's a lot, lot ofcreativity in that and I love it
um, and I think peoplecomplicate it.
They make it seem like this bigscary thing and it's not, it's
just expression.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I love a different recipe which I don't cook, but
making a recipe can becreativity yeah, I love that and
I feel like a lot of peoplewill say I'm not creative.
I'll hear that a lot.
I'm not creative and I'm likeeverything you do is creative
because everything you're doingis creating something.
You're always creating aneffect right from everything
(02:15):
that you're doing.
And I love the idea of what youjust said about putting
creativity into editing, becauseediting seems like it would be
just such a analytical you haveto notice all the details kind
of work.
So tell me how you're applyingyour creative genius into the
editing work that you do.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
There's a lot of analytical to the editing, to
note rules and all the things,but you also have to know when
to break the rule.
So there's a lot of creativityand being like, yeah, we can
break that rule.
Yeah, that makes sense there,and helping people really be
like okay, are you using thatword to express this or this?
Like, what are you trying toconvey?
Because we can use a differentword.
(02:56):
So there's a lot of creativitythere.
That comes with being able toclarify someone's message and be
able to clarify that vision, tocreate clarity in someone's
work.
I think one of my favoritethings to do is help someone who
is very verbose in theirwriting to take it and make it
clearer and more concise, whichis, for a lot of people, very
challenging, very, verychallenging to take out the
(03:18):
excess words and be like oh, butthat's how I talk, because
converting how you talk into howyou write can be very
challenging.
So we have a lot of ums, a lotof like, a lot of filler words
that we say that don't convertinto writings, knowing when to
take those out and knowing whenit does actually convert into
something where it's like oh, weneeded that there because that
conveys that moment ofuncertainty, or you know any of
(03:39):
those things, or we don't needthat there because you are very
certain.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
So being able to be that like analytically creative,
so much fun for me.
I just love it and I thinkthat's such a gift to bring that
creative mind into analyticalwork and it sounds to me like
when you're editing a book andyou're helping someone to edit
something, that you're actuallymore like a creative partner
who's also noticing you know,here's an error, here's where
you did this, here's where youcould do that.
But I love that.
I love that idea of havingsomebody else's eyeballs and
(04:10):
their creative brain on yourwriting and your work to be able
to say here's an alternative ormore simple way of saying this
thing that gets your pointacross maybe even better, more
effectively.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Right, yeah, and that's what I love about what I
do, because I love to do that.
And it's funny because there'sa lot of coaching in editing and
I was really leaning away fromthe concept of coaching at all.
I was talking to Betsy Clarkabout it.
I'm like I don't know if I wantto do coaching and she's like
what do you do?
And I was like saying the samethings back to her.
(04:43):
She's like you are a coach.
And I was like, oh, so Istarted adding book coaching
into my offerings and it's justfun to help people be like, oh,
I do, that is the book.
I do have a framework, I doknow what I want to talk about,
like, oh my gosh, I could say 30to 60,000 words about something
and to pull that out of peopleand have them like kind of be
(05:04):
like, yeah, all right, let's go,let's do it.
It's just so much fun for mebecause I love thinking outside
the box and be able to connectthe dots for people on certain
things that they have been tooclose to.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Would you help somebody if they have an idea
and they want to write a book orthey know something that they
want to write about, Would youhelp them structure the content
of the book, how you would layit out, what the chapters might
look like?
That kind of thing for somebody.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I just started doing that this year and it's
super fun.
People are like well, I havethe idea, and helping them
really figure out how easy itcould be to walk beside them.
And it's simple in the factthat, like, once you have your
framework, once you know whatyou want to write about, where
you want to take the reader,it's a lot easier to be like oh
yeah, I know what I'm talkingabout.
And a lot of people think thatthey have to be an excellent
writer or they have to have knowall the things, they have to
(05:52):
know all the grammar rules inorder to do things.
That's why we have editors Get50% of the way there.
We be like this chapter wouldbe better up here earlier in the
book and be able to help peoplereally like no, you can do it,
you can put together a book ifyou want to.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
So we're talking about editing and hiring
somebody for editing.
So I wanted to just say aboutthat as a person who recently
finally hired a VA to do thethings that you know that she
does better than me, which arethose detail oriented things and
making sure this gets done andthat gets done, and saving time
(06:33):
for my creative work, which iswhat I'm the best at.
So I think there's so muchvalue in hiring somebody to do
those things, but also having anextra set of eyes I think is
amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh my gosh.
Yes, you know, editing is justpart of the process and there's
different levels of editing, butit's so helpful and even if,
like you, are an excellent,excellent writer, I just worked
with someone who is a technicalwriter and she writes a lot, but
it was her first book that shewas writing.
That was not a technical book,so it was just like regular
(07:07):
memoir type book.
We're writing so, so good.
But she was very verbose, veryverbose.
So we cut a lot and we had totrim stuff and be like all right
, where are you taking thereader?
So hers was more.
We were really just tweakingher message and being like where
do you want to change things?
That wasn't focused as much oncorrecting sentence structure or
(07:29):
any of that stuff, but it wasreally focused on her message
and clarifying and refining andpolishing that message.
Where I had another book I'veworked on just recently where
she did a complete download, shejust got the book.
She's based on energy healingand she just downloaded the
whole book, sent it to us.
So it required a lot ofrestructuring and a lot of more
(07:51):
work in terms of figuring outall right, how do we want to
structure the book.
But the important thing was isthat she got it all down, so she
had all the things that shewanted down, so that we could
then be like okay, now how do wemassage and move it around and
make sure that the words areright?
So that was a longer editingprocess, but it's just.
(08:13):
It's so fascinating to see howpeople give them one little
nugget of information or onelittle what.
If you did, I think you can seetheir minds explode with
creativity and just be like oh,I didn't even think about, and
then all this stuff come out.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
What do you find in working with people who are
writing books or like birthing abook, because I think it's
really a birthing process right,when you're letting this whole
creation come out of you andthrough you, and especially
through the medium of words.
What do you find happens topeople in that process?
Do you see a growth change, asoul growth change?
What happens with peoplethrough the creation like that?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
gosh.
So it's very cathartic,especially non because I work
primarily with non-fictionauthors and primarily people are
writing memoirs orself-development, spiritual
development kind of books, andso it's very cathartic, you know
, especially because some ofthem are just writing because
they need to get the story out.
Here's where I was and how Igot through whatever this was,
(09:17):
and I need to share that.
Someone else can do this too,and so watching that happen is
just so beautiful.
And then I was at a writerretreat last month and every
author was in a different stageof where their book was Right at
the beginning and other peoplewere putting their final pieces
together and everybody was Ican't believe I'm doing this, or
(09:39):
this is where I'm at, or it'sbook number two.
I can't believe this is where Iam.
And there's this kind ofovercoming an imposter syndrome
that happens for a lot of people.
Oh my God, I can do this.
Oh my God, I do have all thisknowledge and wisdom inside of
me to share with people and Iwork with some first-time
authors and when they comethrough they're all of a sudden
(09:59):
there's an acceptance of theirwisdom and who they want to be,
which is really really beautiful.
Some people, they're reallyfast and they're able to put
something out and get it writtenin like three months or less,
and all of those people who areable to buckle down and do it.
I've worked with authors thatwere writing for 25 years and
tweaking their book over andover and over again.
(10:20):
So the stepping into that trustto have someone else even look
at it is like handing over yourbaby.
You're just like here's mychild, please don't kill it.
Trusting someone with somethingyou put your heart and soul
into and it's just beautiful towatch that.
And at the end there's justthis I did it.
Superman pose.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
I did it.
I love that and it's truebecause there's so much
vulnerability when you'rewriting something and putting it
out there and you're sharingyour knowledge and you're giving
like in essence, you're givingaway like everything that you
know that's inside of you, andthen you're handing it over to a
stranger, in essence, and goingwhat do you think?
How can you help me make thisbetter?
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Here's my life story and you're going to say, hey, no
, we got to change this, pullthis out of here, that's not
important.
And that's super scary,especially in nonfiction,
because you're putting youridentity on paper for the world
to see.
Whenever you're putting apersonal story into your work,
or even when you're putting itinto your marketing materials,
(11:25):
it's kind of scary.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
You're putting your identity out there for the world
to see and it's like you cantake it in front of the world.
Right, it's like, here I amhere's all of it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, it's, it's unnerving, but even like, the
books that I've been publishedin were um collaboration books,
so I just did a chapter, butit's something very scary.
That information about me, thatpart of my story, is out there.
Forever Forever Ever and everand ever.
And it's unnerving.
I've shared my spiritualjourney.
I've shared my stepping intoconfidence journey.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I know and I find that I know for me I mean, I
always share all my my wholelife journey is an open book
really.
But I find that, you know, noneof us are alone in the journey
that we're walking.
There's always somebody, ormore than one somebody who
relates to your story, becausethey're sharing the same story.
I once heard a long time agothat there's only seven stories
in the whole world, soeveryone's sharing one of seven
(12:18):
stories.
So, as a person who reads a lotand edits a lot, do you think
that's true?
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it's pretty similar.
We're actually at the writer'sretreat.
We were talking because therewas a bunch of people were
writing about spiritual issuesand we were sitting around a
campfire and someone was like Ithink that we all have to go
through something to get to thispoint and I was like, yeah,
everyone has that moment, thattrauma, that something that
(12:44):
kicks you into.
Okay, I need to be aware, Ineed to know more, I need to
focus on this, I need to figureout what this higher power, the
meaning of my life is, and Ithink without that, if
everything is sunshine and roses, why would you look deeper?
If everything's going well,what's the purpose?
So I think that there's a lotof overlap in people's stories,
(13:09):
a lot of overlap.
The only thing that reallychanges is the location, the
time, the age that people aregoing through things, and you
see yourself in the stories alot, which is super hard not to
go.
We're going to be best friendsnow, parts of their stories,
because I'm seeing that, butthey're not seeing any of my
life.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, and the difference is like how I mean,
like even growing up in a family, when you have siblings and you
go you're going throughessentially the same traumas,
but how you each interpret thosetraumas and how they affect you
and how you live with them andhow you process them is so
different for each and everyperson.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So different and you think about who your parents
were At each stage of yoursiblings lives and completely
different.
You're being raised bydifferent parents Than your
siblings, at different ages.
So true, and my cousin and Iwere talking about that and how
her experience with her parentsas the eldest Is very different
from the youngest, who had, Ithink, two or three years when
(14:06):
she was the only one in thehouse, so I'm an only child, so
I don't know, you know.
So her experience is verydifferent than the elders.
So it's all the same, butdifferent.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
You know, I came across this thing recently that
I really loved, that I wanted tobring up to you, and it was the
five states of being.
And so they said that the firstone states of being, and so
they said that the first one, ofcourse, is physical, mental,
emotional, spiritual, but thefifth state of being is creative
.
And I really loved thinkingabout our creativity as humans
(14:38):
as our fifth state of being andwhat that means and what that
looks like.
And I'm curious with you fromyour standpoint and the work
that you do and working with allthese creative people who are
putting all this work out in theworld, and you yourself being a
creative, how that lands foryou.
And I can just see your brainlike digesting that right now
and how you're putting that in.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
I love that because you think that artists are like
the canary in the coal mine.
The canary in the coal mine,like art, is the reflection of
life in terms of books, physicalart, in terms of paintings and
stuff that reflect thechallenges of life, that reflect
what's happening in in life.
Satire, reflecting thechallenges of the political and
(15:24):
people in power.
There's just so much that whenyou're able to just sit there
and create, there's a lot offreedom in that too.
I love that because it'sdefinitely a different state of
being and it's close tomanifestation as well.
To manifest, you have to be ina state of believing you can
create and that everything weneed is here already.
(15:46):
That's.
Felicia Searcy says that.
You know I love her example.
I just she spoke last week atmy chapter of eWomen, so I have
this example in my mind.
She uses the example ofairplanes.
We've always been able to fly.
The materials have always beenhere, but you know, you need to
be able to have the knowledgeand put all the things together
(16:07):
in order to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, it's powerful to sit in and think about that,
because I've always said youknow, you see all these
manifestation coaches and peopleout there, and I'm always like
you're already manifesting.
I always want to say this topeople like you're already doing
it, because I feel like as afifth, as our fifth state of
being, like I don't have tothink about my body, it is.
I don't have to think about mymental, it is my feelings, they
are my spirituality, it is, andso is being creative, because we
(16:31):
are created to create.
And when we can becomeconscious creators, I feel like
that's when.
That's when the game changes,because we're not changing,
we're not creating out of habit,we're not creating out of those
patterns anymore.
Now we're creating likeinnovatively, like you just said
that we're getting new ideasand having the courage to put
those out in the world, and so Ithink that's what I that just
(16:54):
actually segued in is like whatdo you feel is that link between
the courage to be innovative,to create something new, as
opposed to just creating whatyou've always created?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Oh my gosh, I've been working on that for the last
year-ish.
I feel like I've been in thisincubation period of okay, we
need to change and innovate anddo things differently.
I went through a lot ofcoaching in 2023, but it was
also the year that I discoveredmy neurodivergence.
So there was a lot of likeshifting, changing all the
(17:24):
things, and I learned last year.
I've been trying to implementlot of like shifting, changing
all the things, and I learnedlast year and I've been trying
to implement all that but Ilearned was meant for my brain.
So I've had to integrate andchange and tweak and take all
that in.
And so it's that courage totrust your intuition, that you
have the knowledge and you havethe wisdom to do and create what
(17:46):
you want to create.
I think it's lifelong practiceto trust your intuition and to
really lean into, to listen tothis little whisper of a voice
that's telling me to do thisthing, but all the experts are
saying, no, don't do that.
I really want to do it.
And it was a really, really hardcognitive dissonance for the
(18:08):
last year and I had to findanother community of
entrepreneurs that were like no,we can do it, that way that it
was a group of neurodivergentand then a group of people with
energy limiting conditions, likemy own, that were like this is
I love the name of it.
They call it the mess ofsuccess summit, and it was just
beautiful, because we are unableto do what everyone else is
(18:30):
capable of because of our energylimitations.
So this is how we make ourbusinesses work with us, not
despite us, not around it, butwith it.
And so I was like, oh my God,it was like this big permission
slip from the universe to justbe like well, yeah, you know
what, this is what I'm capable,this is my capacity, this is
(18:52):
what I want to do.
Let's make it work.
Let's tweak it, let's change it, let's make it work for my
brain and that courage.
Sometimes you just need to seesomeone else is doing it and it
kind of comes back to that.
I need to see that my story isalso out there, that there's
someone else out there that'sdone it so that I can do it.
So sometimes it's just thatPracticing imperfectness.
(19:13):
Oh yeah, then a big part.
I had this little sketchbookthat I gave myself permission to
use.
Every page badly.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I love that.
Use it badly.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
That's so perfect Use it badly to stop a design to be
like I hate this.
I'm not going to keep goingjust because I feel like you
have to finish your picture.
I don't like this picture.
It's ugly.
I know New page Very freeing.
Created a lot more of that.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, sometimes sometimes you just have to start
again.
Yeah, you know what I love somuch about imperfection and I've
always said I am a happyimperfectionist, like I don't
need everything to be perfect.
Thank god I'm like that, thatI'm like I don't need everything
to be perfect.
That seems really stressful.
To try to put myself or anybody, to put themselves in that
(20:03):
place of self-judgment andself-criticism which I think is
where really perfection iscoming from is that fear of
being judged, and so they'rejudging themselves, and fear of
being criticized, so they'recriticizing themselves, so
nobody else can, and it'sexhausting.
And I also really love how youhave reframed and found a group.
I found a community who arealso in that same reframing of
(20:26):
neurodivergency, and how did youcall being energetically what?
I found a community who arealso in that same reframing of
neurodivergency, and what?
How did you call beingenergetically?
What'd you say?
Energy limitations, limitations.
So what is that?
Because I know a lot of peoplelistening right now are probably
going.
What did she say?
What is that?
Because they're relating to it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Yeah, so I have an autoimmune condition and it
causes energy limitations, sothere's days where I just can't
like nope, um.
You know and and so a lot ofpeople with energy limiting
conditions might be familiarwith spoon theory or their
spoonies that it was a theorycreated by someone with ms to
(21:03):
help a friend understand how thedifference between how the same
activity uses a differentamount of energy For her, taking
a shower might take four spoonsand for her friend it might
take one and you might have 12spoons for the whole day and
someone with an energy limitedcondition.
And it goes to the idea wherewe all have the same 24 hours
(21:24):
but we don't, because we allhave different conditions, we
all have different budgets.
We all have the same 24 hours,but we don't Because we all have
different conditions, we allhave different budgets, we all
have different needs that weneed to take care of.
So it's not an accurateone-to-one comparison.
And when you have anenergy-looming condition, I
might have one good hour todayto focus and get something
really done.
What can I do today that isstill going to be working on
(21:46):
funding my life.
I do not have a full battery.
My battery might start at 15%today, and if I give 100%
tomorrow, I will have 2% for theday.
So it's one of those thingswhere you have to learn how to
pace.
There's an idea called likesoft selling, where you're
constantly soft selling, whereyou're just like here's what I
have on offer, and it's justalways this rolling kind of idea
(22:10):
, being able to work with that.
That's also been the work of thelast, since last May, that I
have a device it's calledvisible I'm not affiliated, but
it's called visible and ittracks my heart rate all day and
helps visibly identify thosespoons so I can track my energy
throughout the entire day and belike, oh, I have used my entire
(22:32):
energy budget already at 11.
I need to find some rest, findsome things that are actually
going to give me energy back,which is biggest challenge, um,
and then put aside so where am Iat?
And be able to kind of planthat so you're not going in
these huge peaks and valleys andyou're kind of just like on the
kiddie ride instead of avoidingforever, which is the key.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
You are energetically limiting yourself through
distraction and I know that whenI sit down and set my focus and
I use that silly tomato timerthing, I know that I can super
focus on this one thing as an asanother neurodivergent person
(23:18):
like I can focus on this onething for 30 minutes and not do
anything else and not getdistracted.
And when I do that, it'samazing how much you can get
done in an hour or in 30 minutesof completely focused attention
.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It's also giving yourself permission to let
something slide.
Okay, I have this much energyright now, I can sit down and do
part of my project, or I canwash the dishes and, depending
on the state of being that dayor the state of how long the
dishes have been allowed toslide, I can choose one or the
other.
Well, the dishes have beensitting there for three days.
(23:54):
Let's do that.
That's the better activitytoday.
Or we have not sat down to workat all this week.
Let's do that.
So it's figuring out that peakand valley and being able to
know your energy peaks, like,even if you're not in an energy
limiting position, learningwhere your peaks and your
valleys are.
I used the Rise app, whichtracks your sleep and tells you
(24:20):
what your sleep deficit is.
Okay, you're groggy for thisperiod of the morning, and then
here's your first energy peak.
You're going to be in a lullfor this period in the afternoon
and then here's your firstenergy peak.
You're going to be in a lullfor this period in the afternoon
and here's when your energypeaks again.
It was just kind of aninteresting.
I only did the trial Because itgave me I felt like enough
information, but it wasinteresting to be like okay, yes
, I am truly a night owl.
This is when I should besettling down.
(24:43):
I need this much sleep.
This is my first 90 minutes ofmy day.
Don't talk to me.
I will be very groggy andforgetful.
And then where does my energygo from there?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
These are such great tools for people to use and I
always say you can't change whatyou don't track.
I'm the same way.
I love tracking myself.
Otherwise, how will I know?
Because you think you'llremember, but you won't.
It's like you will not rememberhow your last week was.
You remember don't remember howyour last days were, or how
what you ate affected you, orhow your sleep affected you, or
when your energy was high orwhen your energy was low.
I just love these, trackingthese, and I also think that I
(25:20):
feel like neurodivergent people,like for the work that you're
doing, the work that I'm doing.
It so suits us because we getto do a lot of different things
rather than being just stuck inone thing, which my version of
hell would have to be doing liketaxes for eternity.
I would just know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Because that's an old job.
I used to be a CPA and most ofmy experience was in tax and and
the last tax position I waslike kill me now.
I don't want to, never again.
I don't want to be here anymore.
It's very frowned upon to becreative in the accounting world
and they want the numbers to beright.
But even like I was always thatperson that was like this
(26:00):
spreadsheet is ugly, it needs tobe color coded, it needs to be.
Why did someone not make allthe columns the same size?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
So I would be, and then I'd get in trouble for
spending an hour making thespreadsheet pretty, still being
creative even when you're doingwhat you're doing.
Yeah, yeah, oh, my gosh, it wasso funny because I do all the
money and stuff in our house.
I remember my husband oncelooked at the account and he
goes how come there aren't any,there's no change listed on
anything.
And I said, oh, because Ialways round down.
And he goes what?
I said yeah, that way we alwayshave more, there's always a
(26:31):
surplus.
But like but it's just easierto round down Because I found
that at the end, if I'm tryingto reconcile and I'd be like,
why is this thing off by 10cents and I would just lose it,
and so I'm like okay, well, youknow there's a surplus, whatever
(26:52):
, it's good enough, I meanthat's obviously why you hire a
bookkeeper not my zone of geniusand and why I will be hiring
you to work on my book, becausethat helps my book that I'm
writing Well, maybe books, whoknows but the one that I'm in
the middle of now, because it'sthat same thing of like I can do
the brain dump I can be likehere's the whole, here's
everything for my chapters andmy outlines and what I'm
thinking.
But, oh my gosh, to have anotherperson to be able to look at it
and say here's a better way toorganize it, here's how the flow
(27:16):
would work better, in a morelogical way, because I really
love your mind and how it isboth analytical and creative.
I just, I really think that'ssuch a gift.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And that's why I love working with authors and
working in nonfiction.
When I'm allowed to do bookdoctoring, I get to help people
really massage their content andI get to do some of the writing
and I'll be like, oh, let'srewrite this paragraph.
But it's just so much fun forme because I get to use that
analytical side from theaccounting days and really
analyze things.
(27:45):
Then I get to merge into thatcreative zone of okay, how can
we expand this, make this better?
And not only that, but I get tolearn.
I'm getting paid to learn andbecause I'm such a learning nerd
, I have a little bit ofknowledge about so much random
stuff in the world that it'sreally great as an editor
(28:07):
Because I know just enoughusually usually about whatever
it is I'm editing, to be likesomeone can decide that or like
this needs to be a little bitmore information, because a
beginner might not know um,where you're at.
And I was working in one bookwhere I was like um, that's a
great stat, but I think it'soutdated.
I think I saw that that changedrecently.
I think I saw an article onthat and it was one of those
(28:29):
random things that like thatfact checked and it was one of
those random things that I justlove doing.
I love that, colleen?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
how do you feel about people using AI to write their
books for them?
I'm sure you have thoughtsabout this, because I have so
many people who are like I'veseen these things come across my
feed.
That'll be like write your bookin a day with AI and
self-publish today with AI, soI'm very curious about your
feelings and thoughts about that.
(28:58):
As a very creative andanalytical person who probably
also loves and uses AI, I dolove AI To a point to a point
For a disclaimer.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
I've been trained in AI.
I've been working with AI forabout three or four years, back
when Jasper just changed toJasper from Jarvis, so I have
experience with it.
I love it as an idea generator.
I love it for when you're likeI need a prompt, I need to
(29:28):
organize this information that Ihave.
It is garbage in, garbage out.
There's a lot of discussioncurrently about how the
copyright laws are going to goin terms of how much has to be
disclosed in your copyrightstatement on what was made with
the AI.
(29:48):
If it is 100% AI generated, itis not copyright a whole what a
word.
Can't use a copyright forsomething that's 100% AI
generated, because someone elsecould do the same thing,
technically right and youwouldn't know who was first.
And so I like it for ideation.
I find that the longer thechain gets in terms of what
(30:11):
you're building with it, theworse it gets.
So quality of the informationreally deteriorates the longer
the chain gets and I'm likewhere'd you get that?
Uh-uh, that's wrong.
So I like it for outlining, Ilike it for assessing a huge
amount of data that isn't wellorganized and be like okay, he
(30:33):
organized this for me, um, butfor a whole book it's.
I know it's been done.
I know someone who has done itjust wrote like one chapter of
his book, um, he used a veryrobust disclaimer at the
beginning.
Then he was like I wrote thisall with ai, just to kind of
show people?
Speaker 1 (30:49):
yeah, you can do it, but now that means that book is
not copyrightable to him becausehe didn't write the book.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
It's one of those gray areas because at the
beginning it needs to have asignificant human contribution
for it to be copyrightable.
That piece of it because he did, he contributed a lot.
You know know, he gave a lot ofthe prompts, he contributed
that chapter, all the things.
So it's like portions.
It's a whole book copyrightable.
That's kind of where the grayarea is right now.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
That hasn't been settled I would rather not have
the gray areas.
If you're putting out all ofthe time and energy and effort
to share your wisdom andknowledge and your idea with the
world, you don't be don't bewanting to get it done in a day,
don't be wanting to get it donetomorrow, because it does take
time for that beauty, theauthentic nature of our humanity
(31:37):
, to pour through.
We're putting our heart intoour writing and I think that's
something that AI can'tduplicate.
Is that energy of the humanthat comes through in our human
experience and emotion?
Speaker 2 (31:48):
I agree.
I mean, it can do some reallygreat things, I think for
articles it does a great job,but the longer the content gets,
the more degraded it gets andthat human element definitely
goes away.
There's a lot less heart infully AI-generated pieces and
(32:08):
you can kind of tell you canPeople who work with energy and
are energetic communicators.
I've noticed that their energycodes kind of come into their
book, they come into thatwriting.
They kind of communicate at ahigher level of more like with
light codes, so similar to lightcodes, so's like there's more
(32:30):
being communicated through theirbook than their words.
So if you add AI into that itdegrades that as well.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I totally agree.
There is like the frequency ofyou comes through in your
writing and if it's a channeledwriting or channeled download
that's coming through, it's soimportant to sit with that and
let that transmission comethrough.
So I just wanted I was curiousabout your feedback on that and
that was actually something Ididn't know about the copyright,
so that's great to know.
Yeah, I just love that.
Colleen, where can people findyou?
(32:57):
Do you have anything?
You said something about slowcontent, things you have
continually going on.
Share where people can find youand what you have going on in
your world.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Sure, so they can find me on LinkedIn or on my
website, which is write, edit,et cetera, which is etccom.
I am currently in build modefor a new thing, my new
membership that is tentativelycalled embrace.
That is really focused aroundembracing these elements of
(33:26):
yourself, all elements ofyourself, and it'll be focused
around the pillars of leadership, creativity, spirituality and
capacity.
They're really the things I'vehad to embrace over the last few
years as an entrepreneur andthe things I think people
struggle with as they're tryingto do something new or they're
trying to step into thatauthentic being of themselves
(33:50):
that they are like.
I don't even know where tostart.
I was a reluctant leader.
I am a reluctant leader.
I'll do it if I have to.
I'll take on type A personalityif I have to, but it's not my
preferred role, so there's goingto be a lot about that and kind
of leading from behind anddifferent leadership styles.
Of course, creativity, which Ican nerd out on, and the
(34:13):
spirituality piece, which Ithink is important for people.
There needs to be for people alot of people a permission to
explore and see what else kindof comes through for them and
what is their truth and whatresonates with them, instead of
just maybe what they've beentaught their whole life.
And so there's a lot there inthat.
That membership it's still.
I'm still percolating, I don'tknow like what all the content
(34:34):
and everything will be, but I'mgoing to be opening up that to
founding members soon.
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Beautiful, so people can get on your email list.
Find out when you're ready tolaunch that and to find out all
the things you have going on.
Yeah, beautiful, that soundsamazing.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
So necessary.
And then anyone working on abook reach out.
I'm happy to.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, absolutely, and I know you personally and have
known you for a few years andknow how your personality you're
so delightful and easy to workwith, very flexible, but also
just so freaking brilliant.
You are absolutely one of themost brilliant people that I
know, so it's so awesome thatyou're doing this work.
It absolutely one of the mostbrilliant people that I know, so
it's so awesome that you'redoing this work.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
It feels like you've really stepped into this full
expression of your zone ofgenius, really trying to embrace
that expertise and brilliance.
That still feel kind ofuncomfortable and name dropping
all over the place here, but,like Kate had to, kate Payne had
to kind of say her definitionof an expert for me to really
step into it, which is tosomeone who is constantly
(35:35):
learning um and growing.
Yes, and I was like okay,that's me.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yes, the way of mastery says a master is a
student who never stops learning.
And I love that.
Yeah, yeah, because they'rethere to get to.
It's not like you reach someplace and you're like that's it,
I have nothing else to learn, Ihave nothing else to know.
I know everything, I've learnedeverything.
Now I can ascend.
Yeah, I don't see that aspossible in the human form,
especially when we embrace ourcuriosity and our creativity.
(36:03):
Then it's just like there'sthis eternal field waiting for
us to keep going.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Exactly, field waiting for us to keep going.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Exactly, there's just so much so much to learn about
Exactly Well.
Thank you so much for joiningme and this has been such a
great conversation and I reallyencourage anybody who wants to
write a book, who's thinkingabout writing a book, who's in
the process of writing a book,to reach out to you to
investigate and check out whatthat would look like to work
together.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I would love that.
Yes, and I have lots ofconnections to publishers and
different things to help peoplewherever you are in the process
and, yeah, I'd love to chat withanyone.
Beautiful Thank you Colleen.
Thank you, it was so much fun.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Thank you for listening to we Woke Up Like
this.
Your likes, comments, sharesand subscribes help this content
reach new listeners.
Listeners, and I so appreciateyou.
And remember, Luminous One,that your radiant and magnetic
presence changes the world.
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