November 24, 2025 • 30 mins
A quiet question—why choose the Army?—opens into a candid story of injury, recovery, and purpose with Eric Thomas, founder of CJ3 Foundation. We dig into how a veteran and first responder-led nonprofit tackles what so many systems miss: putting mental health first, pairing people with real service dogs trained from day one, and showing up as relentless advocates when employers or agencies get in the way.
Eric lays out a simple but demanding model. Before any dog is placed, candidates complete a comprehensive mental health and wellness program that addresses the mind, body, and spirit. Only then does CJ3 pair a Veteran with the right breed and temperament for their lifestyle, from high-drive Belgian Malinois to steady labs or hypoallergenic giants. Training never leaves professional hands; dogs remain in top-tier kennels used by police, military, and federal clients. Handoff is a process, not a moment: a week at the kennel, in-depth handler training, followed by at-home integration and ongoing recertification to prevent bad habits and protect outcomes.
We also discuss the finances and the policy. Through partnerships, CJ3 delivers a fully trained service dog for about $25,000—far less than the long-term costs of unmanaged symptoms, medication stacking, or isolation. Meanwhile, legislation like PAWS and SAVES is inching forward, and CJ3 has pushed to fix exclusions that sidelined reputable providers. Eric argues for a practical line: the VA may not need to fund food and collars, but if a clinician prescribes a service dog, basic veterinary care should be covered to protect the veteran’s lifeline.
Beyond dogs, CJ3’s Field Ops offers safe hunting, fishing, racing, and range days—that rebuild confidence and community for veterans, law enforcement, firefighters, and EMS. The organization scales through ambassadors instead of buildings, runs on volunteers, and invests in people and services over infrastructure. If you’ve got skills in design, web, or fundraising, they can use the help. If you’ve got time, show up at a pop-up and meet the handlers and dogs. And if you’ve got the means, your donation goes straight to the mission.
Enjoyed the conversation and want to support the work? Subscribe, share this episode with a friend who could use it, and leave a review so more listeners can find these stories. Then visit CJ3foundation.org and, if you’re able, hit that donate button.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Larry Zilliox (00:15):
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run.
And this week our guest is EricThomas.
He's the founder of anorganization nearby in Loudoun
County called CJ3 Foundation.
And this is a nonprofit, 501c3,that advocates and has a number
(00:38):
of excellent programs tosupport wounded and disabled
U.S.
service members, veterans, lawenforcement, firefighters, EMS
and first responders.
So they are supporting just awide selection of not only our
military, but also our warriorsthat I like to say are inside
(01:01):
the wire.
Eric, welcome to the podcast.
Eric Thomas (01:04):
Larry, I appreciate you having me.
Great to be here.
Larry Zilliox (01:07):
I wish our listeners could see, but he he
brought his service dog withhim, uh Havoc, which uh is just
a sweet dog.
He's I he just chilling outright now.
Uh but uh if you ever get to goto one of their functions or
their activities, you'll seehim.
And uh he's he's really great.
Let me ask you a question I aska lot of my guests is why would
(01:30):
you join the Army and not theAir Force?
Eric Thomas (01:34):
So that's an easy question.
So I I grew up an obstinateteenager in Norfolk, Virginia,
home of the Navy.
So they were running aroundwearing bell bottoms, and I knew
that I wanted to join, and thefirst thing I went up to was it
happened to be an armyrecruiter, and it wasn't Navy.
And so at the time I justneeded to do anything, not Navy,
(01:55):
because my father was Navy andmy father-in-law was Navy, and I
had to do something different.
And um, I grew up watching Armymovies, so that's just where I
went.
Didn't know anything aboutanything, but that's where I
went.
When did you go in?
Um, 1996.
Larry Zilliox (02:10):
Okay.
And what was your MOS?
What did you do?
Eric Thomas (02:13):
I started out as a 19 Delta Cavalry Scout.
I basically went to therecruiter and said, I I want to
do fun, cool things, drive neatvehicles and shoot a lot of
weapons.
And they smiled and said, Wegot you, kid.
And so they brought me in asthat.
Eventually, though, I realizedthis was before the wars were
going on and all of that.
I realized I needed anafterlife.
And so I changed MOS as Ibecame a 97 Bravo
(02:35):
counterintelligence specialagent.
Larry Zilliox (02:37):
Okay.
So you you were it's very rareactually that service members
who are in those jobs start tothink about, hey, I gotta get
out one day.
And while this is cool, there'snot much of a a transition into
the civilian world for thiskind of thing outside of law
enforcement.
You still you do see a lot ofyour guys go into law
(02:57):
enforcement, but um yeah, that'suh that's a that's a pretty
heads-up move to to switch overand take a job that's gonna be
able to get you some employmentafter you get out.
How how long were you in?
Eric Thomas (03:10):
I did 11 and a half years, unfortunately.
I got out not on my own terms,um, sustained combat injuries
and had to leave.
Yeah.
So then I became uh I I endedup working for DOD as a federal
civilian, doing the exact samecounterintelligence job just as
a federal civilian.
Larry Zilliox (03:29):
Right, and getting paid more.
Eric Thomas (03:30):
Yeah, yeah and and now I'm Sir.
Larry Zilliox (03:35):
Nice.
Were you medically retired?
Eric Thomas (03:37):
I did not, so um I was doing a different kind of
job doing that, and so uh I gothurt and I didn't tell a lot of
people what was happening orwhat was going on um because I
thought I wanted to stay in, soI was fighting it.
And so I left and thensuccumbed to my injuries, ended
up with over 200 and some piecesof shrapnel out of my body, and
(04:00):
um about uh I think I thinkwe're at 16 surgeries or
something like that.
Larry Zilliox (04:06):
All right.
So you have a VA disability?
I do, I'm 100% good.
Well, that's good.
That gets you a tax-free uhhousing here, you know, tax-free
one of the vehicles, yep.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Wow.
You're a civilian governmentemployee.
I am and then along comes 2020,which is oof, the smack dab in
(04:27):
the middle of pretty much COVID,right?
And you do you decide like,hey, I got nothing to do, let me
go start a nonprofit.
Eric Thomas (04:34):
I don't know about nothing to do.
I had a lot to do.
So I I work for Department ofHomeland Security.
Um, we were teleworking, wewere, you know, doing a lot of
work from home, still having togo back and forth DC once in a
while, but not that often.
Um and I found that as a seniorin the government, I was
becoming an unofficial advocatefor veterans showing up and
(04:56):
needing help that weren't eithertaking care of themselves or
didn't know where to find theseservices.
So I found myself advocatingfor them already and doing that
stuff.
I'm a religious guy, so I kindof felt the calling that I
needed to do something more thanjust unofficial help.
Sure.
And it just happened to bewhile we had that downtime.
I like a good cigar, I like afire pit, which I appreciate
(05:18):
your fire pit here.
Larry Zilliox (05:19):
Um we have six, by the way.
Eric Thomas (05:21):
I only saw one.
I had to check out the others.
Um, I just I felt the callingthat I need to do something, and
candidly, I just wanted to getinvolved with another charity.
I didn't want the headache, Ididn't want the hassle.
I believe looking back, Iprobably also wanted a way to
walk away if I didn't want to doit anymore.
And that just wasn't in thecards at that time because of
(05:42):
COVID.
I found a lot of veteransreally struggling and needing
help, especially due to theisolation that was not helping
at all.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Sure.
Eric Thomas (05:50):
And it just came together the right friends,
right people, right connections,and people coming to me saying,
We need to do something, wedon't know what, and looking at
me, going, What are you gonnado?
And sitting at a cigar loungein Leesburg, Virginia, uh, we
came up with the idea, let'sstart this thing.
And from September we becameofficial and have been in a dead
(06:13):
sprint since.
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (06:15):
When you guys were there that that night, that
day, when you were all therethinking about, okay, let's
start this foundation, let's seeif there's a way we can kind of
organize what we need to do tohelp fellow veterans, law
enforcement, first frontlineresponders.
What was the thing you werethinking the most of?
(06:36):
What was the thing at that timethat you thought that they
needed the most that you guyswere gonna provide?
Eric Thomas (06:41):
I will tell you the first thing I said I wasn't
going to do.
Um, because and not because Idon't find it important.
It's very important, especiallyafter I I had to go through the
struggle of the process.
I wasn't gonna do veteranbenefits and go through
compensation and claims and allthat.
Um that's a full-time gig.
And that and that was not myforte.
Larry Zilliox (07:00):
Well, there's plenty of organizations that do
that that have service officers,the VFW, DAV, American Legion.
So I get that.
Eric Thomas (07:07):
I think that's I didn't want to be redundant.
And so I looked at my journey.
And if if you there there's mybio and my history on the
webpage, and I ran through a lotof struggles and and hit a lot
of obstacles going through theprocess at the VA with service
dogs, with just a whole gambitof it.
And I started thinking, and andnot that I rely on education
and think it, but if I have amaster's degree and I'm a senior
(07:30):
in the federal government andI'm struggling to figure this
out and navigate my way through,we got problems.
And so then it became how do Idecide on out of the gambit of
things we can help with, how dowe what do we decide will be our
core?
Uh and we decided initially onthree things, and we added a
fourth because of our partnersand supporters later.
(07:51):
So we started out for me.
Uh I I think we have a mentalhealth problem.
I think we have a mental healthproblem across America, not
just in the veteran community.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Eric Thomas (08:01):
Um, I did not uh find good services when I was
going through for mental health.
They were real good aboutsurgeries, they were phenomenal
about recovery, all that stuff.
Uh, I thought the mental healthpart was lacking.
And so we decided I have accessto mental health facility and
doctors, and and so we thoughtthat would be important.
I knew I wanted to do servicedogs because I have one.
(08:23):
I didn't understand when I gothim the value of that.
Um, and after having them, Irealized I definitely want to do
that.
And what we found was themental health is complementary
to it because if we take care ofthem on the mental health side,
and then they get a dog,they're gonna be a lot more
successful with that dog.
And then I also knew based offof just working in the
government, we needed to doadvocacy and advocate.
(08:44):
One, it's advocating just forthe veterans.
Uh, I may fly down to Florida.
Maybe one of the guys that wegave a service dog to, for
instance, had a state, he had astate job, the state of Florida
f uh threatened to fire him andwouldn't let him bring his
service dog to work.
And so I went down there, I gotthe media involved, I got the
legislators involved, and we alladvocated on behalf of the
(09:07):
veteran, and he got his job andback pay and all that stuff.
So it's advocating that way orchanging policies to help those
groups.
Larry Zilliox (09:14):
Wow.
Eric Thomas (09:14):
And the reason that swath, um, you know, veterans
and first responders and all soI've been all of those.
I started in my life out as afirefighter and EMT.
Um, I've been a special agent,I've been, you know, uh I've
been a obviously I'm a disabledvet, and I found they all are
underserved in many of the sameways and they have many of the
same issues.
I think you made a pointearlier.
(09:36):
They're at war here.
They they they didn't, youknow, the benefit I had is I got
to get on a plane and fly 20hours to go to war and then you
know, turn it on, and then turnit off and come back home.
They don't get to turn it off,they're in it every day, they
live in it, and and it's intheir community.
And so it was important to me.
And my son's in the army, he'san MP, so that it just it kind
(09:58):
of comes full circle.
Larry Zilliox (09:59):
Wow.
So do you guys provide servicesjust Loudoun County, state of
Virginia, nationwide?
How do how does it work?
Eric Thomas (10:08):
So we're all over.
Um, so one thing I don't do isyou guys get a phenomenal
facility, beautifulinfrastructure.
What I found in Loudoun Countyit's an expensive area to be in.
And so we found it's it'seasier to have people and
services than it is to havethings.
And so what it is, I we'reheadquartered out of Leesburg,
Virginia.
(10:28):
I've got ambassadors in otherstates across the country.
They're basically me and thoseother states that operate
underneath our umbrella.
And so we help folks out allacross the nation.
You know, we get applicationson our website if people want
our our mental health.
They have to go through themental health before we give
them a service dog.
Um, we have uh an annual huntthat we do every year down in
(10:49):
Georgia.
We got people that sign up uhfor us to take them down there
for that.
Um, I guess it is a good time.
So going through the fourthings we do, it's a CJ3
advocacy, CJ3 mental health andwellness, CJ3 service dogs.
The last one that we addedlater was the CJ3 field ops, and
that's just kind of anall-encompassing get outside,
get your uh a place to get youradrenaline up in a safe
(11:12):
environment.
So we take wounded heroes outhunting, fishing, racing.
Um, we get a summit point eventout in West Virginia that we're
gonna do a driving and shootingday and things like that.
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (11:22):
Wow, that sounds like fun.
Awesome.
Well, listeners, right off thebat, I want you to go to the
webpage.
It's CJ3foundation.org.
Check it out, look at all theresources that are on there, the
different programs that theyhave, and you know what I'm
gonna say.
You you know where that donatebutton is.
(11:42):
Bang on that donate button,give what you can.
Five dollars, ten dollars, fivethousand, ten thousand.
They'll take it all.
Doesn't matter.
Help out.
Uh they have some amazingprograms.
Service dogs really is one thatI really wanted to talk about
because I just did an episodewith um Chris Beatty from Semper
(12:03):
Canine.
And there's a lot oforganizations out there or
groups that claim to trainservice dogs and they don't do a
good job and they try to chargemoney.
And so if you would, since youguys focus in on providing you
know, service dogs that are areactually going to help the
(12:26):
veteran, if you would talk alittle bit about uh what is the
best way for a uh v a veteran tothink about uh do I need a
service dog or how should I goabout getting one?
Because I think it's it'sreally important.
What I don't want is for themto just spend some money with
(12:46):
the first organization that theycome up against, thinking that
that's well, I I need to get adog right away.
What have you found is the bestway for veterans to think about
that whole process?
Eric Thomas (12:57):
Larry, I think the easiest way, because I don't
want to call anybody out, right?
Um I appreciate the factthere's services out there, but
not all services are createdequal when it comes to it.
And so I'll talk about ourprocess because what I think
that'll that'll explore kind ofthe why I'll be able to talk
about the why, it's important.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah.
Eric Thomas (13:14):
One, we don't charge for our service dogs.
Our service dogs are free tothe people that need them.
Um I told you we require ourfolks to go through the mental
health and wellness facilitybecause I I will tell you, I get
calls all the time from uhwounded vets and regular
veterans, and I want a dog.
Well, great.
There's a pound right down thestreet.
Go pack out any dog you want,and you go get a dog.
(13:35):
Well, it's you know, I need itfor emotional support.
Well, I don't do emotionalsupport dogs, I do service dogs,
right?
There's a there's a bigdifference.
A service dog actually helpsyou with a physical disability.
Right.
That may be PTSD, but it helpsyou with a physical disability.
So we require our veterans togo through our our mental health
and wellness, and and in thatprocess, we focus on gut health,
(13:56):
on brain, on your back, andyour spine, and we have social
workers, we have all that.
Bottom line is we figure mind,body, spirit, if we take care of
all that and kind of get you toa norm, then you're gonna be
more successful than the dog.
So and then that helps usscreen out folks as well,
because then we utilize thedoctors to help to screen do
they need a service dog?
Because I can look at somebodyand go, Yeah, I think they do or
(14:18):
don't.
And what do I know?
I've I've met you for 10, 20minutes, right?
Um, so they go through thatprocess for a week.
The doctors really get to knowthem, and then I get to know the
after they go through them,then I really invest my time in
them to if they still want adog, and we have conversations
and I get them around havoc andstart showing them the and then
that helps me learn who theyare, what they are.
(14:39):
And the reason why is I don'tjust have an OML where next dog
goes to the next veteran.
We pair veterans up bylifestyle, by personality, by
all that of what would they bestpair with?
Not so for the folks that can'tsee havoc as a Belgian
Malinois, um, we basically callthem fur missiles.
And not every veteran needs afur missile, uh and it wouldn't
(15:02):
fit their lifestyle.
Larry Zilliox (15:03):
Well, it could be a lot for a veteran with
mobility issues to try andhandle.
Eric Thomas (15:08):
So well, with that with the amount of exercise they
require, the go-go go.
And so maybe they need a lab,maybe it maybe they like to hunt
and fish, and so a lab, maybe agolden retriever.
Um, we did a giant snauser foruh special forces guy that he
wanted a dog that that had apersonality like a Belgian
Malinois, but his kids wereallergic to dogs.
(15:28):
And so we did some research andwent, well, back in Germany
they used to use these as policedogs so they can still hit and
do all that stuff um andcompete, and but then they're
hypoallergenic.
Nice.
So bottom line is we don't justget a dog and put a veteran,
go, here's your dog, and peaceout.
Take it or leave it.
Yeah.
Um, we we pair them up and andthat's a whole process, and it's
(15:49):
costly.
Yeah, um, that's a longprocess.
So, going back to your point,what I highly recommend is don't
be in a rush to get a dog.
It I would question most folksthat I know that do dogs in this
or in this area of what we do,they've got a waiting list, but
they have a waiting list for areason, and it's a good reason.
If you're rushing the process,I'd question the process.
(16:11):
Um, because if they just havedogs at the at the ready, yeah,
were they trained for you?
Because when we get our dogs,one, you don't get a service dog
until they're a year and a halfto two years old with us.
And so we get our dogs fromoverseas, they're getting
trained from day one.
We don't retrain dogs, we don'tget dogs from the kennel and
then train them.
They're they are bred to betrained, that's what they are.
(16:33):
And when we find that they'rethat they're ready to enter
this, then we bring them fromoverseas.
They go to either our kennel inIllinois or our kennel in
Georgia.
Now, I told you I don't own abunch of places and a bunch of
facilities.
Sure.
I partner with facilities thatthey're a part of the
foundation.
So I partner with professionalkennels that do this for law
(16:54):
enforcement, do it for military,do it for the federal
government.
They're already runningprofessional kennels.
Why would I recreate what theyuh what they've done their
entire, you know, as l as alivelihood?
Sure.
Because they can do it betterthan I can.
Yeah.
And so you also get thatprofessional certification that
goes with the dogs as well.
So I say all that.
There's just a lot of things tolook for to walk away with the
(17:15):
best dog you can.
Larry Zilliox (17:17):
How long does it what normally take to train a
dog on average?
I know they're all different.
Eric Thomas (17:22):
So, like I said, we don't give a service dog till a
year and a half, two years old.
So they are trained front thatwhole time.
Larry Zilliox (17:27):
Right.
Eric Thomas (17:28):
And um And we don't shop them around, they stay in
the training environment.
Because the other side I don'tI don't like to do is if I g
Larry, if you decided, hey, I'lltake your dog for six months
and raise it, and then it goesover to this other family, they
can pick up bad habits.
I don't want you training badhabits into the dog that I just
invested twenty-five thousanddollars into to to bring to the
(17:48):
veteran.
And so our veterans stay, orour veterans, our dogs stay in a
training environment the entirein that same training
environment the entire day.
Larry Zilliox (17:55):
So you you don't use the puppy raiser model.
No, we don't.
Okay.
Yeah.
Is there is there time that thethe veteran spends with the dog
and with the trainers beforethey take the dog?
Eric Thomas (18:07):
Yep.
So once they're identified,hey, you're getting a dog, um,
then normally that's when westart doing the pairing and
we'll grip we'll bring a coupledogs over that fit the
personality, fit the and thenand we'll decide, okay, based
off of which one works the best.
Then we fly the individual andone of our folks out to the
kennel, whether it's Illinois orGeorgia, and they spend a week
(18:29):
with the dog.
And they go through all thetraining.
And then the other thing we dois then our trainers go out to
the individual's house, theycome back with them, which is
what a lot of places don't do,and introduce the dog into their
home, to the family, to allthat.
Because one of the biggestthings I see that happens is you
spend all this money intraining when they're there
(18:51):
doing it, they're gettingtrained, but then you develop
bad habits or you're notconsistent with it.
Well, these dogs are smartdogs.
They're gonna fall into badhabits.
Most of the time I get a callfrom a veteran who says, Hey, my
dog's not doing what it'ssupposed to do.
We'll talk through it, or I'llfly out there and we'll find
out, no, you just slipped intobad habits and didn't you
weren't consistent.
And we'll get them back in,we'll get them back into.
And that's the other piece Ifound for some of these
(19:14):
organizations, there's not afollow-up.
We try to get our veteranstogether at events.
We try to do either an annualevent or a couple, and that's
not just to get everybody backtogether and rah-rah, it's good
to see you.
It's also so we can recertifythe dog and get eyes on and make
sure just the general healthand welfare of the veteran and
the dog, right?
We want to see them togetherand make sure they're doing
(19:35):
right.
If they're not, we doon-the-spot corrections, do
training there and and whateverwe need.
Larry Zilliox (19:40):
Well, listeners, there's another reason to go to
the webpage, cj3foundation.org,and donate.
I mean, you just you heard thatwhat it takes to get a dog for
a veteran.
And uh they're they're notcheap, there's a lot of cost
involved.
Um, I would say probably by thetime uh all said and done,
(20:02):
you've probably got 50 grandrolled up into that dog.
Eric Thomas (20:05):
Because of relationships and partnerships,
we do it for $25,000.
Wow.
That's uh but I mean a lot ofpeople look at oh, that's
expensive.
I said, Well, look, look whatyour medicine costs you.
Oh, yeah.
This is this is actually a verycheap investment for what they
do.
And I will just vouch, Larry,you've seen you've seen my dog.
Has he moved since he's beenhere?
No, they're very well trained.
Larry Zilliox (20:26):
No, no.
My sister had a wonderful uhdog, unfortunately, passed away.
But the the most well dog,well-trained dog that I've ever
seen.
I mean, you know, a squirrelcould go prancing right in front
of that dog, and he nevermoved.
He he uh he constantly had hiseye on my sister, and whenever
(20:47):
she moved, he moved.
And you know, so I'veinteracted with a service dog
that's truly a service dog.
The benefit to the the veteranis immense.
Eric Thomas (20:59):
Um the only thing I'd like to say, Larry, is I
don't want to take away from theservice dog.
They're they're they're verycool, they're fun to watch, and
they're a huge help, but theyare but one tool.
And that's why we we require ofour veterans that will get one
to go through the mental healthand wellness piece, because we
want to help you find your newnorm and help get you healthy.
And then the dog comes in andjust makes you even more healthy
(21:22):
and makes you even more mobile.
And so that's our goal.
Larry Zilliox (21:25):
Yeah, the mobility is really the key
there.
It gets them out of the house,gives them the confidence to get
out of the house, to go tothose medical appointments, to
maybe join the American Legionof the VFW, and you know, once a
week go down and see some guysand sit around and talk for a
while.
I I mean service dogs are arejust invalu invaluable.
(21:49):
And what I'd really like to seeis some of the legislation
that's come up that has justconstantly gets tabled.
Regulations are the newest uhum bill before Congress uh
involves just five years ofresearch to show the benefit.
Eric Thomas (22:08):
So it started out as the Pause Act, and then it
moved into the SAVES Act.
Yeah.
And I will tell you there was aproblem with the way the Pause
and Saved Act was writteninitially, and that was because
of the wording, over half theservice dog organizations across
the United States wereineligible for the to be part of
that program.
And so that was one of thethings we help advocate uh,
(22:31):
along with a couple othergroups, help advocate to get
that change.
They've removed that verbiage.
However, I'm still interestedto see because to your point,
there's supposed to be afive-year study.
And and for the listeners, theother thing it does is it
provides I think it was twentyor twenty-five thousand dollars
from the VA to a serviceorganization to provide a dog to
a veteran.
Because, like the process Iwent through, they said, We
(22:54):
think you need a dog.
Prescribe me a dog.
I said, Well, what window do Iget him at?
They're like, Yeah, we don't dothat.
You gotta go find someorganization to do it.
Larry Zilliox (23:01):
Yeah.
It's it's almost the it's thesame model that they use for
it's the same model they usewhen their funding changes to s
a veteran's vehicle to make it,you know, our assisted driving
capability and that kind ofthing.
But you know, and I have alwaysthought that the one of the
biggest hurdles is that uh withthe VA, uh anything that's
(23:24):
service connected, they payeverything for.
And I think that's reallyspooked them, you know, uh for
my hearing aids, because it's aservice connected.
They send me tips, they send mebatteries, they if uh I need
new ones, they give me new ones.
Uh I think they've always beena little bit leery of the idea
that if we say you need aservice dog, then do we have to
buy food?
(23:44):
Do we pay the vetvills?
Do we get a new collar?
Um, I think that's really thething that's really held it back
from the VA point of view for awhile is they really weren't
sure what they were going to beresponsible for.
Eric Thomas (23:57):
Well, and and a lot of that goes to policy, right?
Advocate for the right policy,because I don't think candidly,
I will tell you, as a veteranorganization and a veteran that
has a service dog, I don't thinkthey should provide everything.
However, I do think if you givea service dog, then veterinary
benefits should come with itbecause not you know uh dogs are
not cheap to maintainsometimes.
And if they you know they couldget injured, they can get uh
(24:20):
and if that becomes yourlifeline, you need the means to
be able to fix it.
And not all veterans have thesame income.
So I I think that piece needsto be.
Um, but should you beresponsible for feeding it and
if you want a new collar for it,yeah, go go do that.
Larry Zilliox (24:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, vet bills are expensive.
I I mean, almost as much aspeople bills really.
Eric Thomas (24:41):
It can be.
I I will tell you, I recommendto a lot of our veterans buy the
pet insurance so you don't haveto worry about it.
Larry Zilliox (24:46):
Yeah.
Where do you see theorganization going in the next,
say, five years?
Eric Thomas (24:51):
Larry, I'm afraid to answer that because uh like I
said, we've already added apiece.
I we didn't do the driving,shooting, hunting, fishing.
We didn't do all that previous.
Um, because of uh we hadgenerous partners that came on
board that fell in love with whowe are and what we do.
You know, we had a weaponsmanufacturer come on board and
say, You're gonna take veteranshunting.
Here's $100,000 worth ofweapons.
(25:12):
I said, I guess we're gonnatake veterans hunting.
You know, and and we and we hadopportunities and access for
it.
So my goal is always to staywithin our means.
You don't want to outgrow yourcapability or your
effectiveness.
And so we're inching along,however, you figure we won't
we've we just hit our five-yearmark a couple months ago.
I I'd say we're doing okay.
(25:33):
The the big thing I'll tell youis our force is all volunteers.
We don't get paid for what wedo.
Nobody, not even and I'm thedirector and founder.
I don't get paid anything.
My goal, I know I've hadfriends tell me you can't
sustain that.
My goal right now is to do itas long as I can to keep it that
way.
Um, I do not want to make moneyoff the backs of it.
There's nothing wrong withgetting compensated for it, but
(25:55):
I also seen a bunch oforganizations prosper off of it,
and I think that's a problem.
Larry Zilliox (26:01):
Yeah, there's that's there's a big difference
there.
I mean I mean people work inthe the nonprofit community are
underpaid for sure.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Uh they could they could go toco corporations and make a lot
more money.
It's and they're just sort ofit's in their uh psyche, you
know.
But yeah, you should becompensated.
(26:22):
Um, because also people whostart nonprofits tend to it's
it's little things here andthere they end up paying for out
of their own pocket.
All the time.
Yeah.
So that's got to stop.
And I'll tell you a good wayfor that to stop is listeners go
to the webpageCJ3Foundation.org, hit that
(26:43):
donate button and give what youcan.
They've got some amazingprograms going on.
They really need your help.
I mean, look, this is uh it's atough time for everybody.
We realize that.
And and listen, if you're inthe Northern Virginia, DC,
Maryland area, and you're afurlough employee or anything
like that, we're not asking youto make a donation now.
(27:05):
But you'll be back to workbefore you know it, and things
will take a turn.
And go to the webpage, rememberthe webpage, go back and make a
donation when you can, takethat URL, that link, and send it
to a buddy.
Send it to somebody that youwere uh in the service with and
say, Hey, look at uh look atwhat they do.
(27:27):
I know you were maybe thinkingabout getting a service dog.
Why don't you give these folksa call and talk to them about it
and say, you know, well, Imight need a service dog, or
maybe I don't, you know.
They're there to help you, andthey have some amazing programs.
So again, visit the webpagecj3foundation.org.
(27:48):
Eric, I can't thank you enoughfor coming by and sitting down
and telling us all about thefoundation.
It's great.
Eric Thomas (27:55):
No, Larry, I I applaud you for reaching out.
Um, to me, this is what'simportant.
Uh, we're not in competition inthis arena.
It's it takes all it takes avillage, right?
And so I appreciate the factthat you're reaching out.
We love to work with otherveteran organizations, we we
love to work with otherbusinesses and corporations.
Um, and and I would highlyrecommend if veterans are
(28:17):
listening and and there'sanything, even if you don't want
to sign up to go do one of ourevents or to look at our social
media, come out and hang outwith us.
We do pop-up events atrestaurants, at bars, uh just
all over.
Um we try to keep active.
If nothing else, it's a goodsocial place.
Come see the dogs, come hangout with us.
Would love to have you out andlove to see you.
How about volunteering for yourorganization?
(28:39):
So we do have some volunteers.
A lot of what that is is comingto support our events since we
don't have an infrastructure.
Sure.
I don't require a lot of that.
However, if you got skills, wecan always use graphic folks.
We can always use people thatare savvy in this arena that
have skills that can provideback.
Otherwise, just you being outthere, wear our swag that shows
(29:01):
the the the CJ3 Foundationinformation on your shirts, on a
hat.
I know, I know you think it'sjust a t-shirt, it's just a hat.
It's brand awareness.
Yes, and it gives a talkingopportunity to somebody that
goes, hey, what's that?
Yeah.
And maybe you don't donate, butthat other person does.
Larry Zilliox (29:16):
Yeah, so there you are.
Listeners, if you've gotexperience with web pages, give
them a call.
If you got experience ingraphic design and like to put
together flyers and things likethat, give them a call.
If you got fundraisingexperience and you're sitting
around with nothing to do, givethem a call.
If you're not sure how to help,go to the webpage, hit the
donate button.
But definitely check them out.
(29:37):
So, Eric, thanks again forcoming.
I really appreciate it.
Eric Thomas (29:40):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Larry Zilliox (29:42):
So, listeners, we'll have another episode next
Monday morning at 0500.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriors.org.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America radio.
So thanks for listening.
Good morning.
I'm your host, Larry Zilliox,Director of Culinary Services
here at the Warrior Retreat atBull Run.
And this week our guest is EricThomas.
He's the founder of anorganization nearby in Loudoun
County called CJ3 Foundation.
And this is a nonprofit, 501c3,that advocates and has a number
(00:38):
of excellent programs tosupport wounded and disabled
U.S.
service members, veterans, lawenforcement, firefighters, EMS
and first responders.
So they are supporting just awide selection of not only our
military, but also our warriorsthat I like to say are inside
(01:01):
the wire.
Eric, welcome to the podcast.
Eric Thomas (01:04):
Larry, I appreciate you having me.
Great to be here.
Larry Zilliox (01:07):
I wish our listeners could see, but he he
brought his service dog withhim, uh Havoc, which uh is just
a sweet dog.
He's I he just chilling outright now.
Uh but uh if you ever get to goto one of their functions or
their activities, you'll seehim.
And uh he's he's really great.
Let me ask you a question I aska lot of my guests is why would
(01:30):
you join the Army and not theAir Force?
Eric Thomas (01:34):
So that's an easy question.
So I I grew up an obstinateteenager in Norfolk, Virginia,
home of the Navy.
So they were running aroundwearing bell bottoms, and I knew
that I wanted to join, and thefirst thing I went up to was it
happened to be an armyrecruiter, and it wasn't Navy.
And so at the time I justneeded to do anything, not Navy,
(01:55):
because my father was Navy andmy father-in-law was Navy, and I
had to do something different.
And um, I grew up watching Armymovies, so that's just where I
went.
Didn't know anything aboutanything, but that's where I
went.
When did you go in?
Um, 1996.
Larry Zilliox (02:10):
Okay.
And what was your MOS?
What did you do?
Eric Thomas (02:13):
I started out as a 19 Delta Cavalry Scout.
I basically went to therecruiter and said, I I want to
do fun, cool things, drive neatvehicles and shoot a lot of
weapons.
And they smiled and said, Wegot you, kid.
And so they brought me in asthat.
Eventually, though, I realizedthis was before the wars were
going on and all of that.
I realized I needed anafterlife.
And so I changed MOS as Ibecame a 97 Bravo
(02:35):
counterintelligence specialagent.
Larry Zilliox (02:37):
Okay.
So you you were it's very rareactually that service members
who are in those jobs start tothink about, hey, I gotta get
out one day.
And while this is cool, there'snot much of a a transition into
the civilian world for thiskind of thing outside of law
enforcement.
You still you do see a lot ofyour guys go into law
(02:57):
enforcement, but um yeah, that'suh that's a that's a pretty
heads-up move to to switch overand take a job that's gonna be
able to get you some employmentafter you get out.
How how long were you in?
Eric Thomas (03:10):
I did 11 and a half years, unfortunately.
I got out not on my own terms,um, sustained combat injuries
and had to leave.
Yeah.
So then I became uh I I endedup working for DOD as a federal
civilian, doing the exact samecounterintelligence job just as
a federal civilian.
Larry Zilliox (03:29):
Right, and getting paid more.
Eric Thomas (03:30):
Yeah, yeah and and now I'm Sir.
Larry Zilliox (03:35):
Nice.
Were you medically retired?
Eric Thomas (03:37):
I did not, so um I was doing a different kind of
job doing that, and so uh I gothurt and I didn't tell a lot of
people what was happening orwhat was going on um because I
thought I wanted to stay in, soI was fighting it.
And so I left and thensuccumbed to my injuries, ended
up with over 200 and some piecesof shrapnel out of my body, and
(04:00):
um about uh I think I thinkwe're at 16 surgeries or
something like that.
Larry Zilliox (04:06):
All right.
So you have a VA disability?
I do, I'm 100% good.
Well, that's good.
That gets you a tax-free uhhousing here, you know, tax-free
one of the vehicles, yep.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Wow.
You're a civilian governmentemployee.
I am and then along comes 2020,which is oof, the smack dab in
(04:27):
the middle of pretty much COVID,right?
And you do you decide like,hey, I got nothing to do, let me
go start a nonprofit.
Eric Thomas (04:34):
I don't know about nothing to do.
I had a lot to do.
So I I work for Department ofHomeland Security.
Um, we were teleworking, wewere, you know, doing a lot of
work from home, still having togo back and forth DC once in a
while, but not that often.
Um and I found that as a seniorin the government, I was
becoming an unofficial advocatefor veterans showing up and
(04:56):
needing help that weren't eithertaking care of themselves or
didn't know where to find theseservices.
So I found myself advocatingfor them already and doing that
stuff.
I'm a religious guy, so I kindof felt the calling that I
needed to do something more thanjust unofficial help.
Sure.
And it just happened to bewhile we had that downtime.
I like a good cigar, I like afire pit, which I appreciate
(05:18):
your fire pit here.
Larry Zilliox (05:19):
Um we have six, by the way.
Eric Thomas (05:21):
I only saw one.
I had to check out the others.
Um, I just I felt the callingthat I need to do something, and
candidly, I just wanted to getinvolved with another charity.
I didn't want the headache, Ididn't want the hassle.
I believe looking back, Iprobably also wanted a way to
walk away if I didn't want to doit anymore.
And that just wasn't in thecards at that time because of
(05:42):
COVID.
I found a lot of veteransreally struggling and needing
help, especially due to theisolation that was not helping
at all.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Sure.
Eric Thomas (05:50):
And it just came together the right friends,
right people, right connections,and people coming to me saying,
We need to do something, wedon't know what, and looking at
me, going, What are you gonnado?
And sitting at a cigar loungein Leesburg, Virginia, uh, we
came up with the idea, let'sstart this thing.
And from September we becameofficial and have been in a dead
(06:13):
sprint since.
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (06:15):
When you guys were there that that night, that
day, when you were all therethinking about, okay, let's
start this foundation, let's seeif there's a way we can kind of
organize what we need to do tohelp fellow veterans, law
enforcement, first frontlineresponders.
What was the thing you werethinking the most of?
(06:36):
What was the thing at that timethat you thought that they
needed the most that you guyswere gonna provide?
Eric Thomas (06:41):
I will tell you the first thing I said I wasn't
going to do.
Um, because and not because Idon't find it important.
It's very important, especiallyafter I I had to go through the
struggle of the process.
I wasn't gonna do veteranbenefits and go through
compensation and claims and allthat.
Um that's a full-time gig.
And that and that was not myforte.
Larry Zilliox (07:00):
Well, there's plenty of organizations that do
that that have service officers,the VFW, DAV, American Legion.
So I get that.
Eric Thomas (07:07):
I think that's I didn't want to be redundant.
And so I looked at my journey.
And if if you there there's mybio and my history on the
webpage, and I ran through a lotof struggles and and hit a lot
of obstacles going through theprocess at the VA with service
dogs, with just a whole gambitof it.
And I started thinking, and andnot that I rely on education
and think it, but if I have amaster's degree and I'm a senior
(07:30):
in the federal government andI'm struggling to figure this
out and navigate my way through,we got problems.
And so then it became how do Idecide on out of the gambit of
things we can help with, how dowe what do we decide will be our
core?
Uh and we decided initially onthree things, and we added a
fourth because of our partnersand supporters later.
(07:51):
So we started out for me.
Uh I I think we have a mentalhealth problem.
I think we have a mental healthproblem across America, not
just in the veteran community.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Eric Thomas (08:01):
Um, I did not uh find good services when I was
going through for mental health.
They were real good aboutsurgeries, they were phenomenal
about recovery, all that stuff.
Uh, I thought the mental healthpart was lacking.
And so we decided I have accessto mental health facility and
doctors, and and so we thoughtthat would be important.
I knew I wanted to do servicedogs because I have one.
(08:23):
I didn't understand when I gothim the value of that.
Um, and after having them, Irealized I definitely want to do
that.
And what we found was themental health is complementary
to it because if we take care ofthem on the mental health side,
and then they get a dog,they're gonna be a lot more
successful with that dog.
And then I also knew based offof just working in the
government, we needed to doadvocacy and advocate.
(08:44):
One, it's advocating just forthe veterans.
Uh, I may fly down to Florida.
Maybe one of the guys that wegave a service dog to, for
instance, had a state, he had astate job, the state of Florida
f uh threatened to fire him andwouldn't let him bring his
service dog to work.
And so I went down there, I gotthe media involved, I got the
legislators involved, and we alladvocated on behalf of the
(09:07):
veteran, and he got his job andback pay and all that stuff.
So it's advocating that way orchanging policies to help those
groups.
Larry Zilliox (09:14):
Wow.
Eric Thomas (09:14):
And the reason that swath, um, you know, veterans
and first responders and all soI've been all of those.
I started in my life out as afirefighter and EMT.
Um, I've been a special agent,I've been, you know, uh I've
been a obviously I'm a disabledvet, and I found they all are
underserved in many of the sameways and they have many of the
same issues.
I think you made a pointearlier.
(09:36):
They're at war here.
They they they didn't, youknow, the benefit I had is I got
to get on a plane and fly 20hours to go to war and then you
know, turn it on, and then turnit off and come back home.
They don't get to turn it off,they're in it every day, they
live in it, and and it's intheir community.
And so it was important to me.
And my son's in the army, he'san MP, so that it just it kind
(09:58):
of comes full circle.
Larry Zilliox (09:59):
Wow.
So do you guys provide servicesjust Loudoun County, state of
Virginia, nationwide?
How do how does it work?
Eric Thomas (10:08):
So we're all over.
Um, so one thing I don't do isyou guys get a phenomenal
facility, beautifulinfrastructure.
What I found in Loudoun Countyit's an expensive area to be in.
And so we found it's it'seasier to have people and
services than it is to havethings.
And so what it is, I we'reheadquartered out of Leesburg,
Virginia.
(10:28):
I've got ambassadors in otherstates across the country.
They're basically me and thoseother states that operate
underneath our umbrella.
And so we help folks out allacross the nation.
You know, we get applicationson our website if people want
our our mental health.
They have to go through themental health before we give
them a service dog.
Um, we have uh an annual huntthat we do every year down in
(10:49):
Georgia.
We got people that sign up uhfor us to take them down there
for that.
Um, I guess it is a good time.
So going through the fourthings we do, it's a CJ3
advocacy, CJ3 mental health andwellness, CJ3 service dogs.
The last one that we addedlater was the CJ3 field ops, and
that's just kind of anall-encompassing get outside,
get your uh a place to get youradrenaline up in a safe
(11:12):
environment.
So we take wounded heroes outhunting, fishing, racing.
Um, we get a summit point eventout in West Virginia that we're
gonna do a driving and shootingday and things like that.
Wow.
Larry Zilliox (11:22):
Wow, that sounds like fun.
Awesome.
Well, listeners, right off thebat, I want you to go to the
webpage.
It's CJ3foundation.org.
Check it out, look at all theresources that are on there, the
different programs that theyhave, and you know what I'm
gonna say.
You you know where that donatebutton is.
(11:42):
Bang on that donate button,give what you can.
Five dollars, ten dollars, fivethousand, ten thousand.
They'll take it all.
Doesn't matter.
Help out.
Uh they have some amazingprograms.
Service dogs really is one thatI really wanted to talk about
because I just did an episodewith um Chris Beatty from Semper
(12:03):
Canine.
And there's a lot oforganizations out there or
groups that claim to trainservice dogs and they don't do a
good job and they try to chargemoney.
And so if you would, since youguys focus in on providing you
know, service dogs that are areactually going to help the
(12:26):
veteran, if you would talk alittle bit about uh what is the
best way for a uh v a veteran tothink about uh do I need a
service dog or how should I goabout getting one?
Because I think it's it'sreally important.
What I don't want is for themto just spend some money with
(12:46):
the first organization that theycome up against, thinking that
that's well, I I need to get adog right away.
What have you found is the bestway for veterans to think about
that whole process?
Eric Thomas (12:57):
Larry, I think the easiest way, because I don't
want to call anybody out, right?
Um I appreciate the factthere's services out there, but
not all services are createdequal when it comes to it.
And so I'll talk about ourprocess because what I think
that'll that'll explore kind ofthe why I'll be able to talk
about the why, it's important.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah.
Eric Thomas (13:14):
One, we don't charge for our service dogs.
Our service dogs are free tothe people that need them.
Um I told you we require ourfolks to go through the mental
health and wellness facilitybecause I I will tell you, I get
calls all the time from uhwounded vets and regular
veterans, and I want a dog.
Well, great.
There's a pound right down thestreet.
Go pack out any dog you want,and you go get a dog.
(13:35):
Well, it's you know, I need itfor emotional support.
Well, I don't do emotionalsupport dogs, I do service dogs,
right?
There's a there's a bigdifference.
A service dog actually helpsyou with a physical disability.
Right.
That may be PTSD, but it helpsyou with a physical disability.
So we require our veterans togo through our our mental health
and wellness, and and in thatprocess, we focus on gut health,
(13:56):
on brain, on your back, andyour spine, and we have social
workers, we have all that.
Bottom line is we figure mind,body, spirit, if we take care of
all that and kind of get you toa norm, then you're gonna be
more successful than the dog.
So and then that helps usscreen out folks as well,
because then we utilize thedoctors to help to screen do
they need a service dog?
Because I can look at somebodyand go, Yeah, I think they do or
(14:18):
don't.
And what do I know?
I've I've met you for 10, 20minutes, right?
Um, so they go through thatprocess for a week.
The doctors really get to knowthem, and then I get to know the
after they go through them,then I really invest my time in
them to if they still want adog, and we have conversations
and I get them around havoc andstart showing them the and then
that helps me learn who theyare, what they are.
(14:39):
And the reason why is I don'tjust have an OML where next dog
goes to the next veteran.
We pair veterans up bylifestyle, by personality, by
all that of what would they bestpair with?
Not so for the folks that can'tsee havoc as a Belgian
Malinois, um, we basically callthem fur missiles.
And not every veteran needs afur missile, uh and it wouldn't
(15:02):
fit their lifestyle.
Larry Zilliox (15:03):
Well, it could be a lot for a veteran with
mobility issues to try andhandle.
Eric Thomas (15:08):
So well, with that with the amount of exercise they
require, the go-go go.
And so maybe they need a lab,maybe it maybe they like to hunt
and fish, and so a lab, maybe agolden retriever.
Um, we did a giant snauser foruh special forces guy that he
wanted a dog that that had apersonality like a Belgian
Malinois, but his kids wereallergic to dogs.
(15:28):
And so we did some research andwent, well, back in Germany
they used to use these as policedogs so they can still hit and
do all that stuff um andcompete, and but then they're
hypoallergenic.
Nice.
So bottom line is we don't justget a dog and put a veteran,
go, here's your dog, and peaceout.
Take it or leave it.
Yeah.
Um, we we pair them up and andthat's a whole process, and it's
(15:49):
costly.
Yeah, um, that's a longprocess.
So, going back to your point,what I highly recommend is don't
be in a rush to get a dog.
It I would question most folksthat I know that do dogs in this
or in this area of what we do,they've got a waiting list, but
they have a waiting list for areason, and it's a good reason.
If you're rushing the process,I'd question the process.
(16:11):
Um, because if they just havedogs at the at the ready, yeah,
were they trained for you?
Because when we get our dogs,one, you don't get a service dog
until they're a year and a halfto two years old with us.
And so we get our dogs fromoverseas, they're getting
trained from day one.
We don't retrain dogs, we don'tget dogs from the kennel and
then train them.
They're they are bred to betrained, that's what they are.
(16:33):
And when we find that they'rethat they're ready to enter
this, then we bring them fromoverseas.
They go to either our kennel inIllinois or our kennel in
Georgia.
Now, I told you I don't own abunch of places and a bunch of
facilities.
Sure.
I partner with facilities thatthey're a part of the
foundation.
So I partner with professionalkennels that do this for law
(16:54):
enforcement, do it for military,do it for the federal
government.
They're already runningprofessional kennels.
Why would I recreate what theyuh what they've done their
entire, you know, as l as alivelihood?
Sure.
Because they can do it betterthan I can.
Yeah.
And so you also get thatprofessional certification that
goes with the dogs as well.
So I say all that.
There's just a lot of things tolook for to walk away with the
(17:15):
best dog you can.
Larry Zilliox (17:17):
How long does it what normally take to train a
dog on average?
I know they're all different.
Eric Thomas (17:22):
So, like I said, we don't give a service dog till a
year and a half, two years old.
So they are trained front thatwhole time.
Larry Zilliox (17:27):
Right.
Eric Thomas (17:28):
And um And we don't shop them around, they stay in
the training environment.
Because the other side I don'tI don't like to do is if I g
Larry, if you decided, hey, I'lltake your dog for six months
and raise it, and then it goesover to this other family, they
can pick up bad habits.
I don't want you training badhabits into the dog that I just
invested twenty-five thousanddollars into to to bring to the
(17:48):
veteran.
And so our veterans stay, orour veterans, our dogs stay in a
training environment the entirein that same training
environment the entire day.
Larry Zilliox (17:55):
So you you don't use the puppy raiser model.
No, we don't.
Okay.
Yeah.
Is there is there time that thethe veteran spends with the dog
and with the trainers beforethey take the dog?
Eric Thomas (18:07):
Yep.
So once they're identified,hey, you're getting a dog, um,
then normally that's when westart doing the pairing and
we'll grip we'll bring a coupledogs over that fit the
personality, fit the and thenand we'll decide, okay, based
off of which one works the best.
Then we fly the individual andone of our folks out to the
kennel, whether it's Illinois orGeorgia, and they spend a week
(18:29):
with the dog.
And they go through all thetraining.
And then the other thing we dois then our trainers go out to
the individual's house, theycome back with them, which is
what a lot of places don't do,and introduce the dog into their
home, to the family, to allthat.
Because one of the biggestthings I see that happens is you
spend all this money intraining when they're there
(18:51):
doing it, they're gettingtrained, but then you develop
bad habits or you're notconsistent with it.
Well, these dogs are smartdogs.
They're gonna fall into badhabits.
Most of the time I get a callfrom a veteran who says, Hey, my
dog's not doing what it'ssupposed to do.
We'll talk through it, or I'llfly out there and we'll find
out, no, you just slipped intobad habits and didn't you
weren't consistent.
And we'll get them back in,we'll get them back into.
And that's the other piece Ifound for some of these
(19:14):
organizations, there's not afollow-up.
We try to get our veteranstogether at events.
We try to do either an annualevent or a couple, and that's
not just to get everybody backtogether and rah-rah, it's good
to see you.
It's also so we can recertifythe dog and get eyes on and make
sure just the general healthand welfare of the veteran and
the dog, right?
We want to see them togetherand make sure they're doing
(19:35):
right.
If they're not, we doon-the-spot corrections, do
training there and and whateverwe need.
Larry Zilliox (19:40):
Well, listeners, there's another reason to go to
the webpage, cj3foundation.org,and donate.
I mean, you just you heard thatwhat it takes to get a dog for
a veteran.
And uh they're they're notcheap, there's a lot of cost
involved.
Um, I would say probably by thetime uh all said and done,
(20:02):
you've probably got 50 grandrolled up into that dog.
Eric Thomas (20:05):
Because of relationships and partnerships,
we do it for $25,000.
Wow.
That's uh but I mean a lot ofpeople look at oh, that's
expensive.
I said, Well, look, look whatyour medicine costs you.
Oh, yeah.
This is this is actually a verycheap investment for what they
do.
And I will just vouch, Larry,you've seen you've seen my dog.
Has he moved since he's beenhere?
No, they're very well trained.
Larry Zilliox (20:26):
No, no.
My sister had a wonderful uhdog, unfortunately, passed away.
But the the most well dog,well-trained dog that I've ever
seen.
I mean, you know, a squirrelcould go prancing right in front
of that dog, and he nevermoved.
He he uh he constantly had hiseye on my sister, and whenever
(20:47):
she moved, he moved.
And you know, so I'veinteracted with a service dog
that's truly a service dog.
The benefit to the the veteranis immense.
Eric Thomas (20:59):
Um the only thing I'd like to say, Larry, is I
don't want to take away from theservice dog.
They're they're they're verycool, they're fun to watch, and
they're a huge help, but theyare but one tool.
And that's why we we require ofour veterans that will get one
to go through the mental healthand wellness piece, because we
want to help you find your newnorm and help get you healthy.
And then the dog comes in andjust makes you even more healthy
(21:22):
and makes you even more mobile.
And so that's our goal.
Larry Zilliox (21:25):
Yeah, the mobility is really the key
there.
It gets them out of the house,gives them the confidence to get
out of the house, to go tothose medical appointments, to
maybe join the American Legionof the VFW, and you know, once a
week go down and see some guysand sit around and talk for a
while.
I I mean service dogs are arejust invalu invaluable.
(21:49):
And what I'd really like to seeis some of the legislation
that's come up that has justconstantly gets tabled.
Regulations are the newest uhum bill before Congress uh
involves just five years ofresearch to show the benefit.
Eric Thomas (22:08):
So it started out as the Pause Act, and then it
moved into the SAVES Act.
Yeah.
And I will tell you there was aproblem with the way the Pause
and Saved Act was writteninitially, and that was because
of the wording, over half theservice dog organizations across
the United States wereineligible for the to be part of
that program.
And so that was one of thethings we help advocate uh,
(22:31):
along with a couple othergroups, help advocate to get
that change.
They've removed that verbiage.
However, I'm still interestedto see because to your point,
there's supposed to be afive-year study.
And and for the listeners, theother thing it does is it
provides I think it was twentyor twenty-five thousand dollars
from the VA to a serviceorganization to provide a dog to
a veteran.
Because, like the process Iwent through, they said, We
(22:54):
think you need a dog.
Prescribe me a dog.
I said, Well, what window do Iget him at?
They're like, Yeah, we don't dothat.
You gotta go find someorganization to do it.
Larry Zilliox (23:01):
Yeah.
It's it's almost the it's thesame model that they use for
it's the same model they usewhen their funding changes to s
a veteran's vehicle to make it,you know, our assisted driving
capability and that kind ofthing.
But you know, and I have alwaysthought that the one of the
biggest hurdles is that uh withthe VA, uh anything that's
(23:24):
service connected, they payeverything for.
And I think that's reallyspooked them, you know, uh for
my hearing aids, because it's aservice connected.
They send me tips, they send mebatteries, they if uh I need
new ones, they give me new ones.
Uh I think they've always beena little bit leery of the idea
that if we say you need aservice dog, then do we have to
buy food?
(23:44):
Do we pay the vetvills?
Do we get a new collar?
Um, I think that's really thething that's really held it back
from the VA point of view for awhile is they really weren't
sure what they were going to beresponsible for.
Eric Thomas (23:57):
Well, and and a lot of that goes to policy, right?
Advocate for the right policy,because I don't think candidly,
I will tell you, as a veteranorganization and a veteran that
has a service dog, I don't thinkthey should provide everything.
However, I do think if you givea service dog, then veterinary
benefits should come with itbecause not you know uh dogs are
not cheap to maintainsometimes.
And if they you know they couldget injured, they can get uh
(24:20):
and if that becomes yourlifeline, you need the means to
be able to fix it.
And not all veterans have thesame income.
So I I think that piece needsto be.
Um, but should you beresponsible for feeding it and
if you want a new collar for it,yeah, go go do that.
Larry Zilliox (24:34):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, vet bills are expensive.
I I mean, almost as much aspeople bills really.
Eric Thomas (24:41):
It can be.
I I will tell you, I recommendto a lot of our veterans buy the
pet insurance so you don't haveto worry about it.
Larry Zilliox (24:46):
Yeah.
Where do you see theorganization going in the next,
say, five years?
Eric Thomas (24:51):
Larry, I'm afraid to answer that because uh like I
said, we've already added apiece.
I we didn't do the driving,shooting, hunting, fishing.
We didn't do all that previous.
Um, because of uh we hadgenerous partners that came on
board that fell in love with whowe are and what we do.
You know, we had a weaponsmanufacturer come on board and
say, You're gonna take veteranshunting.
Here's $100,000 worth ofweapons.
(25:12):
I said, I guess we're gonnatake veterans hunting.
You know, and and we and we hadopportunities and access for
it.
So my goal is always to staywithin our means.
You don't want to outgrow yourcapability or your
effectiveness.
And so we're inching along,however, you figure we won't
we've we just hit our five-yearmark a couple months ago.
I I'd say we're doing okay.
(25:33):
The the big thing I'll tell youis our force is all volunteers.
We don't get paid for what wedo.
Nobody, not even and I'm thedirector and founder.
I don't get paid anything.
My goal, I know I've hadfriends tell me you can't
sustain that.
My goal right now is to do itas long as I can to keep it that
way.
Um, I do not want to make moneyoff the backs of it.
There's nothing wrong withgetting compensated for it, but
(25:55):
I also seen a bunch oforganizations prosper off of it,
and I think that's a problem.
Larry Zilliox (26:01):
Yeah, there's that's there's a big difference
there.
I mean I mean people work inthe the nonprofit community are
underpaid for sure.
Oh, yes, absolutely.
Uh they could they could go toco corporations and make a lot
more money.
It's and they're just sort ofit's in their uh psyche, you
know.
But yeah, you should becompensated.
(26:22):
Um, because also people whostart nonprofits tend to it's
it's little things here andthere they end up paying for out
of their own pocket.
All the time.
Yeah.
So that's got to stop.
And I'll tell you a good wayfor that to stop is listeners go
to the webpageCJ3Foundation.org, hit that
(26:43):
donate button and give what youcan.
They've got some amazingprograms going on.
They really need your help.
I mean, look, this is uh it's atough time for everybody.
We realize that.
And and listen, if you're inthe Northern Virginia, DC,
Maryland area, and you're afurlough employee or anything
like that, we're not asking youto make a donation now.
(27:05):
But you'll be back to workbefore you know it, and things
will take a turn.
And go to the webpage, rememberthe webpage, go back and make a
donation when you can, takethat URL, that link, and send it
to a buddy.
Send it to somebody that youwere uh in the service with and
say, Hey, look at uh look atwhat they do.
(27:27):
I know you were maybe thinkingabout getting a service dog.
Why don't you give these folksa call and talk to them about it
and say, you know, well, Imight need a service dog, or
maybe I don't, you know.
They're there to help you, andthey have some amazing programs.
So again, visit the webpagecj3foundation.org.
(27:48):
Eric, I can't thank you enoughfor coming by and sitting down
and telling us all about thefoundation.
It's great.
Eric Thomas (27:55):
No, Larry, I I applaud you for reaching out.
Um, to me, this is what'simportant.
Uh, we're not in competition inthis arena.
It's it takes all it takes avillage, right?
And so I appreciate the factthat you're reaching out.
We love to work with otherveteran organizations, we we
love to work with otherbusinesses and corporations.
Um, and and I would highlyrecommend if veterans are
(28:17):
listening and and there'sanything, even if you don't want
to sign up to go do one of ourevents or to look at our social
media, come out and hang outwith us.
We do pop-up events atrestaurants, at bars, uh just
all over.
Um we try to keep active.
If nothing else, it's a goodsocial place.
Come see the dogs, come hangout with us.
Would love to have you out andlove to see you.
How about volunteering for yourorganization?
(28:39):
So we do have some volunteers.
A lot of what that is is comingto support our events since we
don't have an infrastructure.
Sure.
I don't require a lot of that.
However, if you got skills, wecan always use graphic folks.
We can always use people thatare savvy in this arena that
have skills that can provideback.
Otherwise, just you being outthere, wear our swag that shows
(29:01):
the the the CJ3 Foundationinformation on your shirts, on a
hat.
I know, I know you think it'sjust a t-shirt, it's just a hat.
It's brand awareness.
Yes, and it gives a talkingopportunity to somebody that
goes, hey, what's that?
Yeah.
And maybe you don't donate, butthat other person does.
Larry Zilliox (29:16):
Yeah, so there you are.
Listeners, if you've gotexperience with web pages, give
them a call.
If you got experience ingraphic design and like to put
together flyers and things likethat, give them a call.
If you got fundraisingexperience and you're sitting
around with nothing to do, givethem a call.
If you're not sure how to help,go to the webpage, hit the
donate button.
But definitely check them out.
(29:37):
So, Eric, thanks again forcoming.
I really appreciate it.
Eric Thomas (29:40):
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Larry Zilliox (29:42):
So, listeners, we'll have another episode next
Monday morning at 0500.
If you have any questions orsuggestions, you can reach us at
podcast at willingwarriors.org.
You can find us on all themajor podcast platforms.
We're on YouTube and WreathsAcross America radio.
So thanks for listening.
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