The Importance of Construction Administration!

In this episode, Matt Brennan joins the Deliberate Words podcast with Dave Stutzman and Steve Gantner to discuss his journey in the architectural industry, emphasizing the importance of specifications and construction administration (CA). He shares insights on the challenges faced in CA, the role of specifications in ensuring project success, and the potential of BIM and digital twins in modern architecture. The conversation highlights the need for architects to maintain control over project data and the significance of clear communication between architects and contractors. In this conversation, the speakers delve into innovative solutions in architectural management, focusing on integrating technology in construction administration, the importance of communication, and the beauty of British Columbia. They discuss how digital tools can streamline processes, enhance accountability, and foster better relationships within the industry. The conversation also touches on personal experiences and the significance of building connections in both professional and personal realms.

Takeaways

• Specifications are crucial for successful project execution.
• Construction administration (CA) is often overlooked in architectural education.
• The relationship between architects and contractors is vital for project success.
• Digital twins can enhance facility management but require accurate data.
• BIM models must include detailed specifications to avoid confusion.
• Clear communication can prevent costly extras during construction.
• Architects should leverage technology to maintain project data.
• The evolution of CA tools is necessary for modern architecture.
• Understanding the construction process is essential for architects.
• The importance of adapting to changes in project requirements. Digital twins can enhance architectural records.
• Data management is crucial for accountability.
• Technology can streamline construction administration processes.
• Communication is key in the architectural industry.
• Building relationships is essential for project success.
• British Columbia offers diverse landscapes for exploration.
• Innovative tools can reduce email clutter.
• Real-time collaboration improves project efficiency.
• Understanding the local environment enhances project outcomes.
• Mentorship and continuous learning are vital in architecture.

Sound Bites

• "Can we actually tender a BIM model?"
• "Data is king, as you know."
• "You can't do it in and out one day."
• "It's all about relationships."
• "How can we work together?"
• "Communication is key."

Chapters

• 00:00 - Introduction to the Podcast and Guest Appearance
• 02:38 - The Importance of Specifications in Architecture
• 07:04 - Matt Brennan's Journey in Architecture
• 09:03 - Understanding Construction Administration (CA)
• 12:01 - The Role of Specifications in CA
• 15:00 - Challenges in Construction Administration
• 18:48 - The Promise of BIM and Digital Twins
• 25:24 - Innovative Solutions in Architectural Management
• 27:11 - Streamlining Construction Administration with Technology
• 32:38 - The Future of Communication in Architecture
• 35:33 - Exploring the Beauty of British Columbia
• 46:41 - Building Relationships in the Architectural Industry

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Me as a guest, specs, multiple d***s.
and can we actually tender a BIM model?
All this on today's episode and let's get into it.
Welcome to What the RFI, I'm Matt Brennan and this is the podcast all about today.

(00:21):
Today, we're going back into the archives.
And what I mean by that, I'm actually currently traveling through Europe right now.
Something that's been on my bucket list for, geez, like 22 years, 23 years.
I am beyond excited.
And I'm sure I'm having a great time as you're listening to this right now.
So I thought it would be a great time to showcase a personal guest episode.

(00:42):
I was actually a guest on a podcastcalled The Deliberate Words.
This is a podcast that's hosted by David, Steve and Tina from Conspectuous.
And we had a great chat.
It went really well.
Lots of good laughs and everything.
And we're going to dive into it in a moment here.
before I do that, Conspectuous, it's really an all-in-one spec writing software.

(01:05):
So you basically log into the software.
And what makes this really unique versus the old ways of doing it throughMicrosoft Word and stuff, is it just links everything together.
If there's a certain that section, spec section, that's kind of outdated, you tie ittogether.
you're just, basically when you publish that set of specs that go into that job that goesout to CA, it's always, all the cross references are right.

(01:30):
You don't got messed up title blocks.
You're not pulling up old references, maybe outdated products.
And that's kind of the idea with the software is it brings you into the light.
And it's been around for a long time.
And, but yeah, what a phenomenal tool to use.
And again, just to ensure, because one thing we always, keep on the podcast, we talk aboutdrawings and CA and them not being right.

(01:50):
Well, hold on.
It takes two to tango here.
Specifications need to be correct as well.
And if you don't have good solid specs, job can turn to different way.
Like, you know, you've heard me kind of say, I had one job that I, you know, the drawingsI felt were really solid, really clean.
We used a new brand new spec writer.
and we didn't know what we were going to get.
We got some really weird RFIs and it was all because of the specs.

(02:13):
So having a good set of documents as far as your specifications go are key and like that'swhat Conspectus basically is involved.
So basically take a look to check it out, check out the blog post with links and all thatkind of stuff.
But that's what we did.
So like I said, I was featured as a guest on their podcast called Deliberate Words andthis is really how it went.

(02:35):
So let's get into it.
Is it live or is it Memorex?
Now you're just dating yourself Steve.
Remember those old commercials, the guys in the chair gets blown back by the sound.
That's right, the old iconic image too, right?

(02:55):
Yep.
Good old Dolby.
enormous speakers.
the way.
I don't remember.
But we remember the branding behind it.
We just don't remember who it was associated to.
So it was really effective, wasn't it?
it totally was.
like, you the guy, you he had his sunglasses.

(03:17):
was, you know, you can just vision, you know, put it back in your mind there and just,yeah, clearly that was the experience.
Leather coat, long hair.
That's right.
Yes, but the fact that none of us can remember the brand.
That's the problem.

(03:37):
Well, I know it was Memorex, it was Memorex audio tapes, when we did things on tape.
Yeah.
Maybe that was it.
Yeah.
Good old.
Yeah.
Now we're ordaining.
That's why it doesn't really exist because that has come and gone.
What's really funny is it's great because I was at a concert the other night and they wereselling an audio cassette.

(03:58):
The latest album was like, and they had vinyl next to it.
Are we going to bring back eight tracks?
I wouldn't be surprised.
Well, like I got an email the other day, like, you know, it was the summer of the 90s.
And actually I was in Wisconsin and I'm very tempted because it's like all the bands Ilistened to in 90s, you know, got Nickelback and Theory of Dead Man and all the list went

(04:23):
on.
But it was all like the high school, you know, like I was, that's where my was.
was born, you know, was born in 83 and I was into the 90s in music and the rock and youknow, that's where everything is.
Now it's all...
All these guys are doing these read tours of the nineties and I'm seeing our lady piecethis Sunday.
So haven't seen them since I was, like I said, when I was like 17 to, you know, earlytwenties.

(04:48):
You know what you get when you combine 50 cents.
crap, I just blew it.
You did, didn't you?
Yeah Nice try.
What you get when you combine 50 cent with Nickelback?
you just said it.
What do you got there, Steve?
45.

(05:08):
Yeah, that's true.
That's simple math.
youYou guys are talking about the wrong genre of music for me, gotta tell you.
What do you?
do you listen to as you're fancy?
Big band from the 40syeah, yeah yeah.
That and classical.

(05:30):
Yeah, yeah.
Exactly.
There's one playlist.
Like if I have to get work done, I go on my Apple account and it's called ClassicalTronics and it plays in that classical realm, but more of a new age in a sense.
So it's just, I don't know.
It's a variety of stuff.
It's something that you might actually find, but yeah, if you want to get focused,sometimes it can be really good.

(05:50):
Some amazing pieces and you just run with it.
focus, I turn it all off.
Gotta have something in the background.
low in the background.
all off.
Is that when you're like trying to get through those specs and you know, got that deadlineand yeah, yeah.
Silence.

(06:11):
This Gordon.
It depends on the early days of the specs.
It's light jazz in the back, instrumental in the background.
And then when you get towards delivery and deadline, it's heavy.
You just crank it up.
dear.
Well, Steve, here we are rambling and rambling and we haven't even introduced our guesttoday.

(06:33):
Yeah, fellow podcaster, actually probably better than us.
Let's not go that we go thatwill be modest you you're better than us
So Matt, with, dang it, part three, that's right.
Part three, yeah.

(06:56):
I know, yeah, I know, there's only a few, but you only have a good, you know, you need tohave only one.
Right.
So Matt, tell us a little bit about yourself if you don't mind.
Absolutely.
Well, in high level, yeah, my name is Matt Brennan.
I've been in this industry, this beautiful architectural industry for the past 22 years,seen and done at all.
And like, in when I say that, like, you know, I started in residential housing, you know,sub developments, eventually got into high rises and all that kind of stuff.

(07:25):
Found myself into doing K to 12, you know, all that institution side of things.
That's really where my passion is.
And I stayed in that sector for a long time.
You know, early days, I actually did a, did a little bit of reselling for Autodesk, giventhe industry where it was, went through that process, got to work with some amazing
architects, which kind of prompt me to where I landed my feet with Renewable and NegronArchitects.

(07:50):
And, you know, I really developed a lot.
was where I my real passion.
Those are the glory days.
And, yeah.
And then, like I said, kind of going back into the architectural industry and then comingto this point.
You know, company by the name Part 3 approached me about three and a half years ago.
And what Part 3 is, it's all about construction administration, but design for architects.

(08:10):
You've got the ProCores of the world, which is great for the GCs.
Happy to use that if I was a GC.
But as architects, we've been left in the dust and CA really hasn't changed much over theyears, other than going from physical shop drawings to faxing them to emailing them.
And now it's kind of stalled for the last, you know, 15 years.
And, you know, can we do better?
And that's where Part 3 came into my life.

(08:32):
And at that point, you know, I used it, you know, for two years and I was like, wow, thisis, this has been a solution in the industry we've been screaming for.
And through the opportunity came up and actually joined the company.
So I've had multiple lives in this, you know, these last two decades with it.
yeah, I just find, you know, audio video has been on the side, of course.

(08:54):
And, you know, and of course podcasting since, you know, September is a new, new, new gamefor me as well, but it.
really enjoying it.
that's it in a nutshell.
Really?
Well, in a nutshell, that's awesome.
Tell us that in your podcast so people can listen to it.
Yeah.
So it's called what the RFI and, you know, it.
Tags onto the, you know, that kind of fun aspect to it, but it's all about constructionadministration from the lens of an architect, from a project coordinator, consultant

(09:22):
perspective.
again, lots of amazing architectural podcasts out there talking about design, but even intoday, like in your schooling in, you know, just general forums or anything is just, no
one talks about CA, but yet.
If you have that passion for it, there's so many stories that go with it.
You can sit down, have a drink and the stories come alive between everyone.

(09:46):
Everyone's had their different experiences, different frustrations, but the core elementsare there about CA and what.
And that's what it's about.
Each week I post Monday morning and it's all about, like I said, it's all about CA.
I do guest interviews as well.
And definitely that's kind of a big roadmap item for 25.
Well, every week you're ambitious to be able to get that podcast done weekly.

(10:11):
So I want to just back up.
Part three, there's a connection, right?
There's a reason for the name.
So tell us what you think the reason is.
for the part three.
When I was first introduced to part three, I thought it was a BC building code.
cause in our, like being out of Vancouver, BC, we have our building code.

(10:32):
Part three is all about the commercial side.
So if you're designing a school, you're going to design your school around the part threeof the building code.
So of course, when we were introduced to the company and that was the first question Ipersonally asked was what is, and I've had clients ask the same thing.
Part three was, it was established out of Ontario, Canada.
And part three out of Ontario represents CA.

(10:56):
Part two is bids and tenders and part one is design.
So that's where the name came about was that general section of CA and hence part three.
So we have a connection to specifications too because of part three, which is essentiallyall the field execution work, right, which fits right into CA.

(11:18):
That's right.
Absolutely.
it's, is key.
it's like, again, part three is kind of more on the, you again, from it's on the CA side.
And that's where like, I've always enjoyed working with specs, always did, but we early onin the stage, but the reality is it still comes in into CA, you know, from that early days
of I would actually probably get our specs moving after we've completed a building permitpackage.

(11:44):
That's when we would launch our specs.
We do it, finalize it up to your tender point.
modify it during tender that process once that tender was closed then your specs werelocked into it and then hopefully you got it all right because if you didn't do anything
right where the cracks would form and that's where the extras would come in on thoseOkay, so we've said CA multiple times, but we haven't said anything about what CA means.

(12:09):
I know and I said that's a downfall of my own self but CA is construction administration.
Contract administration is another term but technically instruction administration, CA.
So the design side of managing construction.
Yeah, basically the moment, yeah, what is, if you, yeah, when I have to explain it to,know, I'm go out with my partner and she's introduced me to friends and what do you do?

(12:36):
And very simple.
way I explain it is basically construction administration is the moment the contractorstarts taking those blueprints and starts building it, there's a whole bunch of paperwork
that comes through it.
And that phase is called construction administration.
And I think that's probably the best way to explain it, but I'm open to hearing adifferent way.
I think you have a kindred spirit here on the call with us today.

(13:01):
I've always explained it to as because I I've I stumbled into specifications throughconstruction administration so I worked for a contractor and then I became a CA for an
architect and When people ask me what I do is like basically I take the design documentsthe specifications and the prints and make sure that it gets built according to that or if

(13:22):
it can't Answer the questions as they come up to make sure it gets as close to that designas possible And you're right.
that's at the of the day, like the whole point of the construction administration, the CAphase and the architects were through this design phase.
You've been designing, the way I like to explain it, you've been designing this BMW,right?

(13:45):
You've got this beautiful car, you've designed it, you've got this beautiful project, thebeautiful building.
All of the architect, the CRP, basically ensure that the contractor is building as perwhat you've designed and specified.
And that's why specs and drawings are so key and they both have to match.
They both got to coordinate.
They both got to talk to each other.

(14:05):
That the end of the project, you want to basically, you know, hold up that rendering andthen go, did we do what we told the client we're going to do?
Did we give them the BMW or did we give them the Honda Civic?
Right.
And that's where budget constraints, you know, through that process during that CA wereThings may get cut, you know, maybe there's Valley Engineering, anything like that, but
that's your job is to ensure that you're delivering that product and following thoseguidelines.

(14:30):
So being intimate with your drawings and specs definitely goes a long way.
Yeah.
I thoroughly enjoyed CA because just because the interaction you had with the contractorand the architect and finding the right ways to do things.
Because as an architect, we think we have the right answer, but the person who's done itfor all their life might have a better answer to get you the same result.

(15:00):
And it's great talking to them.
Like what we find too, we did one little project, one of the last projects I was heavilyinvolved in before I left and joined the part three team was we did these six daycares.
Now this daycare design was the same thing, right?
It was a province they were launching, they needed daycare throughout the, you know,through a certain city and everything, certain district.

(15:22):
And the way that we put the contract is we designed one building other thanSome buildings may have a little bit of an extension on one side of the wing, right?
It was kind of like a U shape.
It was going to six different sites.
And because it was six different sites, they ended up deciding that let's tender it.
Different ways, like let's let's tender it.
So you had in the end, I think there was four GC, four separate GC building this.

(15:46):
And of course, when it came to the, you know, the building in the CA phase, everyone haddifferent questions.
They were picking up different parts of the specs, different questions.
One built it with very minimal, you know, requests for information, RFIs and stuff likethat.
Um, but then some were asking a huge amount of questions.
It was actually easier to draw a school, you know, do a CA on a school than, than thesedaycares because it just depend on who it is.

(16:10):
And we've even seen that with details like a parapet detail.
We've issued this parapet detail for years, right?
It's the same details, pretty straightforward.
And we had one contractor come to us later, you when they're building it and we want anextra.
Okay.
Please clarify.
Oh, you got your, your angle and your steel deck coming in.

(16:30):
So that's about a quarter inch.
So we want some strapping at the top to, you know, basically when we put in our finalpiece of backing plywood and then they do the membrane and everything.
And it was one of those little details.
You're like, are you serious?
You just really want to strip?
Oh yeah.
And they, priced it out.
I think we got, was like a $15,000 extra.
So of course.

(16:50):
You don't just stop there.
You go back and look through the drawings and yeah, okay, fair enough.
see the problem.
You go measure it up.
then in the end, was three pieces of, you know, three sheets of plywood in that respect.
But interesting that you just give that detail to most builders, most contractors andsomething simple like that.

(17:11):
don't, you know, they, just want to get the job done, but then you've got theseorganizations that like to pick that stuff apart and it all, it all the range, but again,
same detail.
You'reYou've had it right on many other jobs and now it's coming up to being challenged
basically of how you can do it.
And then you just take that stuff with you know you take that on a serious note you canyou know tell them to screw off or you can say all right fair enough I'm gonna be better.

(17:36):
And then from there from that particular incident, Tails had this little quarter inchstrip at the top to ensure that we didn't get stung with an extra.
think that's the cause that documents have gone from six sheets to a thousand sheets?
Yes, because like,Working on a lot of old schools.
Like we did one out in Langley, BC and it was built in multi-f****s and it was like the1950 something.

(18:01):
It was kind of the first wing and then they did another one in 1960 and then anotheredition in 1977 and stuff like that.
So we took all these drawings and it was like exactly like that, Steve.
Where first original sets were 10 pages and the next set was 20 pages.
And then when we issued our drawings, you know, they were like a brand new middle school.

(18:22):
It's at least 130 sheets, right?
Like every interior elevations documented, like even if it's just like a border panel of awall, right?
Everything is physically documented because we just don't want to deal with, you know,that wasn't in contract or something.
We've included 3D isometrics now to ensure that yes, you can see that material isreturning.

(18:42):
Yes, we didn't call out that one tiny little cove in the plan.
Well, wait a minute.
Why don't we just issue the models?
Wouldn't that solve everything?
I mean, this isn't that the BIM promise?
Yeah, I see that going.
know I've had my *** with contractors on this one too, there Dave.

(19:04):
And I think it's just a recipe for disaster because when you give a simple, like, if we,yeah, whether it was a simple little shed or like an actual project, right?
The reality is, and today's, you know, multi-users, got juniors, you got seniors, and Idon't think it doesn't matter whoever's doing it.

(19:25):
But the reality is if we drew say a custom millworkcountertop.
Okay.
And you label you didn't tag that material.
You put as generic material.
Well, you're you as the architect, you wanted that to be granite or you know, marble orwhatever.
Well, how am I supposed to know the model just shows as generic.
The whole thing mod like, even if you took the due diligence and modeled every singlething, how many hinges and I guess that's where specs would come in.

(19:53):
I, it would be a nightmare.
At no end, think it would be a way to pick away at every unique detail to no end, right?
You know, it would just, I think it would just create a bunch of extras if that was theonly thing you're issuing.
Good point.
What's interesting about that is there's been a lot of talk lately about digital twins.

(20:18):
just presented a talk the other night about digital twins.
And what struck me as interesting is can you really have a digital twin?
And for those that may not be familiar with it, it's basically a virtual representation ofwhat was built in that reality.
Can you really have a digital twin where you don't have the specification data, theinformation?

(20:40):
in the model.
It's tough.
let's take, right?
A door is not just a door, right?
Like, we know it's a slab, right?
We know that, you know, is it hollow?
it, you know, is it fire-rated?
All those details.
And let's just get to the door hardware.
Like, why do we have door hardware consultants?
The reality, it's a complicated thing because everything ties into the code andeverything.

(21:04):
So are you going to...
Note that on drawings?
No, right?
Same thing like ULC ratings.
Like you could least call up a ULC.
Like we had a page dedicated to certain ULC ratings.
Like in order to build this fire rated wall, you had to follow the ULC rating, which, youknow, spacing for the, you know, the screws and the nails or whatever had to be out these

(21:25):
patterns.
Otherwise it didn't qualify to meet that ULC rating.
And it's the same thing with like, it's a door hardware.
all those nuts and bolts.
Like you're not calling up individual screws on plans.
That would be insane.
Your drawings would, even though you think your drawings would be perfect, I'm sure thecontractor would find something to pick away at and go, you didn't include the nails on
this sheet.

(21:46):
my goodness.
Like we've seen that with, we've seen that with tags, right?
Like with wall tags.
We had the whole plan.
All the wall tagged up and one wall we didn't tag on the plan and it was an extra layer offurring, right?
Because we had all these bump outs and conduits and steel.
So we had to run a whole brand new up, but it was clear visually and it was clear on thesections, like the, you know, the 10 different sections and then the blow up of those

(22:12):
sections, it was clear and it was tagged there.
But because we didn't tag on the plan, they wanted an extra for that wall.
And that was wheredo the whole mountain molehill kind of thing.
Where do you put your foot down?
Where do you set the precedent going forward?
That was one of those scenarios that we set straight up.
No, we're not.
We're not.
We're not allowing.

(22:32):
is an extra 100%.
Yeah.
But that's an interesting, you know, I just can't help but get wrap my mind around.
You may have a visual representation of what your building is, but you don't know whatyour building is.
Yeah, exactly.
Steve?
Yeah.
Yeah, and you may not have the data to support it in the model, which I think is where youwere going.

(22:53):
And we've seen examples of that where we actually had an architect use a curtain wallfamily in the model to represent a brick and block cavity wall.
Now, why would you do that?
I have no idea other than they just didn't change the data to have it match what theyactually drew.

(23:16):
And you're right.
that's kind of where sometimes that's where technology limitations stop you.
And like, again, with Revit in the past, you know, and it's always evolving and, know,it's still being improved, thankfully.
Well, you're right.
That makes a good point, Dave, because we would use the curtain wall tool to make arailing sometimes.
So had a crazy feature.
Like we would do a workaround.
Hey, we want this, this is what we're trying to do from the vision for.

(23:40):
Well, Revit is limiting us.
can't do it.
How do we do it?
well, hey, we figure, you know, people have done those work around those little cheats andeverything with Revit.
Well, going back to the digital model and tendering it, is this a curtain roll or is thisa railing?
What is it?
You know, and that's where the gray becomes it.
And, but digital twins very, it's, it's an interesting thing.
Like it's a great tool.

(24:01):
For a facility manager.
Depends on who's managing and controlling that data.
Cause I've seen that where it's always gone through one individual.
And if they shut down shop and the whole thing's lost, I honestly, think architects shouldbe controlling that data going forward and it becomes an extra value proposition that they
can resell to their, their clients and maintain those relationships.

(24:23):
Right?
So like a good example is like, rather than just putting your, mechanical units allthroughout and give them QR codes, the maintenance manual.
Cause no one's going to walk around with a book that's, know, you know, thousands of pagesthick.
It's not convenient, but what they do have is a phone in their pocket.
So put all that stuff in the digital cloud.
Everyone has wifi and internet.

(24:44):
Put QR codes on the equipment in there.
How do I operate this, operable wall?
Put, you know, put a little QR code with your little logo or whatever the owner's logosnap.
That's how you operate it and where you go.
And even to like on big walls, like say, for example, Hey, we're going to open up thiswall and, we're going to install something.

(25:05):
What's behind that wall?
Well, before they board.
someone goes there and takes a photo of every single wall, setting their architecturaldigital model.
And then basically they can, as the architect, they can just walk up, hold their phone.
yeah, there's this pipe, this pipe, this pipe, this beam, this, you know, cross brace.
A little bit more complicated.

(25:25):
We got to figure out something different.
And I think that's where architects can really go from a feel silly management side andextend that extra side of business.
as a contract with their owner and maintain it and continue and be that architecturalrecord to do those changes.
That's a great idea.
you know, STI a while ago, specified technologies, they do fire stopping.

(25:48):
Yeah.
Okay.
Sealance.
A few years ago, I was with another firm at the time, but they had us up there.
They were experimenting with QR codes and fire stop assemblies.
And what they would do was they would take a picture of the assembly.
would print out a QR code.
They'd stick it next to the assembly.
And then it had all the data.
who installed it, when it was installed, what was installed.

(26:11):
So that when they had to do their fire stop inspections and this was for hospitals,because they to do them annually or whatever the authorizing agency came through.
But they could just QR code them and give them all the data right there.
And then a map of the entire hospital showed them where everything was.
Exactly.
like, to me, that's what digital twin should be.
Right?
Like it's, it's like, like I went to one presentation and you know, get a real clearunderstanding.

(26:35):
And at the end, it's like, well, if you want to add more chairs and all that, I'm like,well, people aren't going to do that.
Right.
You're not going to go spend.
And it was all this extra consultant fees and stuff, but like that data, that's key.
Right.
When you need to go back in time and it's years.
What is the easiest way to grab that?
Right.
And that like, again, all about CA and CA logs, again, having the logs intact is socritical to ensure that things are being followed.

(27:01):
Data is king, as you know, you want it, it's not finger pointing, it's just calledaccountability.
Who did what and everything.
And that's just a prime example of why it matters.
So how is it, Matt, that part three is helping the architects manage all the CA?
So the common theme, and this is where like CA really hasn't changed over the years isevery off, like we basically naturally just gravitated to the tools we had in our

(27:31):
disposal, right?
So we had Mike, we had Outlook, we had Microsoft Word and we had Excel.
So what would be the easiest way to track when an RFA came in?
What would you do?
You would kind of notate it, maybe try your server in that sense, but you would naturallyjust kind of log into Excel.
So the problems withExcel in that sense and going that method is the reality is you're a you're manually
inputting it.

(27:55):
You're human.
You're to make mistakes.
Right?
So maybe you don't know, or if you go away on holidays and someone else jumps into try andmaintain that, that's one thing.
It's not a standardizing the office.
Everyone becomes their own little silos and they start doing their own little logging andthe tracking in that way.
So that's kind of the problem.
What we've kind of developed and just as the norm, right?

(28:16):
Where part three comes intothe table here, it automates that whole entire process.
Whereas a contractor uploads issues in new RFI or shop drawing, anything, it comes intothe part three database.
Again, it's an all-in-one CA application designed by architects, for architects, andimmediately notifies the right people that, there's a shop drawing that needs to be

(28:38):
reviewed.
And again, the days of me get that shop drawing, come into my office, right?
Maybe the contractor CC the right electrical mechanical.
If this was like a rooftop unit, great.
I would physically log it note that so-and-so got it.
Then make sure that, you know, they're reviewing it.

(28:58):
Then mechanical sends back their review of this shop drawing.
Okay.
I've got some pages.
Electrical eventually, you know, I send it to electrical and then he sends it back.
by the way, he marked up the original one.
The contractor said, my goodness.
Now I got to combine three shop drawings together into one, or I can just give thecontractor from
a 50 page shop drawing to times three, now 150 pages and the headaches.

(29:21):
And this is where errors really start to happen because electrical marked on page 49 andthe tiniest little red note, it's supposed to be a three phase versus a single phase or
something like that.
So where part three comes into that aspect is rather than doing that archaic process,we're basically coming around the table right now and marking up the shop drawing in real

(29:42):
time in one platform that's managing it.
And then it's all being communicated in one entity, logging in at the same time, and thenpushing it back to the contractor.
And then when you introduce the world of where the contractors in Pro, that's a wholeother world in a sense where you're inundated from all his stuff.
And the contractor has taken the right approach, right?

(30:02):
If I was a GC, I would use Procore in a heartbeat because it manages all that from theirend.
world.
Right, absolutely.
It totally is.
Right.
And rightfully so.
It's a, it's a great tool for that.
Right.
It manages their subs, it manages their own budgets and everything, but it inundates the,the architects with emails of the painter opened up the spec.

(30:23):
I don't care.
I don't need an email.
I have clients creating separate email accounts just to house these part, these pro coreemails.
And that's kind of the beauty with part three and pro cores.
have that really, that, that partnership relationship and the two connect together.
So again,The contractor has his data and the architect now controls his data.

(30:46):
And a good example is like RFI close-outs, know, RFI comes in, it logs it.
When you return that RFI, it logs it.
And then when it gets closed.
the example, like a personal example, I'd be at my site meetings with some of these GCsand they would be like, when are we going to get a, you know, RFI 30?
It's, it's been with you for three, four months now.

(31:10):
Actually pull up Procore.
It's in your court.
Cause I can see my data shows that I returned it the same day.
It was in and out in the same day.
Right.
Shoot my bad.
And by the way, when you're closing that RFI 30, can you close the 10 others that arestill in your court?
They're, they haven't been closed.
And that's where having data at your fingertips is key.

(31:30):
And it even goes on beyond that too, Dave, because it talks about like it, because ofeverything's data driven, I can pull up dashboard data.
and find out who is the slow consultant not responding to stuff, right?
Is it that mechanical?
Is it electrical?
Is it, is it us as the architect?
And when a delay claim comes, I need that proof.

(31:51):
I need to know where things are slipping through the cracks.
And that's where it shows you.
And with those like leaderboards, whether you show them or not to your team, it's anamazing tool because it actually changes human behavior.
I've seen consultants go from really bad consultantsto amazing consultants because they didn't want to be that guy being last on the list to
return anything.

(32:14):
They didn't want to be 15 days on an average response time for RFIs or shop drawings.
And in a nutshell, it's a data management tool that's basically streamlining it, using AIto help review shop drawings, and then just providing that accountability.
And the best part is you don't have to touch Outlook ever again.
You can actually work through the platform.

(32:34):
in a nutshell, that's what it is.
Dave, can we get part three?
No email sounds good to me.
Well, exactly.
And that is the ugly trend.
Like this was supposed to be a tool that was going to save us.
Like, my goodness, we're going from the days of mail to, you know, fax.
Well, that was a new thing of doing things.

(32:55):
And then email, was send an email.
Well, how many, how many nonsense emails do you get in a day?
Like it's just open up the door to in a date or inbox.
And like when I was, you know, in a day to a CA and before the part three days, likeYeah, it'd be 150 emails a day, know, 100 to 150.
And I would say 20 % were non-actual items, meaning that I could go in, read, move to thenext.

(33:22):
So I didn't have to do anything.
But a good...
good?
portion of these emails where shoot, I have to file this, I have to log this, I have to dosomething with this email and maybe it's even just logging it but either way, when you
start looking at all those tasks that you're doing, five minutes, five minutes, fiveminutes, bam, at the end of the day, where did my time go?

(33:42):
Well, I was a professional emailer.
You certainly were.
That's all you did today.
Yeah, and as an example, I looked at my email list at noon today because I hadn't touchedit all day.
There were over 150 sitting there waiting for me, and that was only four hours.
And yeah, and that's, that's the reality of the architect.

(34:02):
Even again, having your email on the side of your pocket, like that helps.
It's nice that you can get to some of those quick and efficiently, but I think it's at theend of the day is how can we do it differently?
Again, email is not going to leave, right?
We get that as a form of communication is good and it ties into that, but how can we do itbetter?
Right.

(34:23):
Why again, like going back to the days of CA, like you get this RFI, you get the email,you do it, you send it to your people.
Like you're doing all this actions.
Can I just basically get into one place and hit return and be done?
That's kind of what the end of it, like it's like, that's what made me so efficient andlike why even believe in part three, because like my last firm is an associate there and I

(34:45):
went from three to 15 jobs with this software.
like.
Right away, was when the opportunity came up.
certainly want to be part of this because I believe it's a tool.
Believe when Revit came to my doorstep, when Autodesk just acquired it, I looked at itwent, this is the future.
This makes so much sense in drawing stupid, dumb, detailed lines.

(35:05):
That line can be anything.
It could be wiring, could be a wall, it could be a door.
There's no one that's not intelligent to it.
So when Revit came to the table,It just made sense.
You walked away with this ball slow wall model within a few hours, the client makeschanges.
You'd move the wall.
Everything would update in a parametric way.
It just made sense.
That's kind of where, like I said, that's where I see part three.
call it the new Revit of CA because it is, it's a new way of doing it in that respect.

(35:33):
That's awesome.
CUT no no, go, you go.
I know, because you've mentioned BC a number of times today, British Columbia, for anybodyelse that might not know, right?
So obviously Canadian.

(35:54):
Yes.
just, yeah.
So just curious, what are your favorite things about Canada?
We're going to take a little bit of a sidestep here.
Out of our audiences, US based and BC.
I fell in love with it when I visited Kelowna.
It was awesome.

(36:14):
a very beautiful place and it's only about three hours from where I am.
like, yeah, I kind of bring in kind of some context, the whole great white Northbasically.
Yeah.
So I'm on the far West side, you know, just outside of Vancouver, which is basically onceyou get Vancouver, you're at the water, you know, that's as far as we can go.
If we go south, we're going to hit Seattle, Portland, Oregon, California, et cetera.

(36:35):
Right.
So that's on my kind of spectrum with it.
Well, I'm actually in Harrison hot springs, which is kind of a, it's a, it's it's atouristy town in a sense, but we've got natural hot springs.
We've just like, it's right to my right here.
got this beautiful lake of it.
It's incredible.
It's a great place to be.
And.
Yeah, like I said, I'll get into the stuff that I love to do here in a second, but BC isjust so beautiful.

(36:58):
You've got your mountain ranges, right?
You've got, you know, it's a lot of natural rainforests.
Again, when, example, yeah, so being in the lower mainland, if I go driving north up toPrince George, you're going to go through like three different climates and, you know,
like you'll go into that really hillside and then eventually get to the dense forest onceyou get up to Prince

(37:21):
into Quinelle Williams Lake, know, Timber Kings, the guys that build the cabins, that'swhere they're based out of.
But if I, rather than going north, I go, you know, east.
Well, next thing you're going through the Okanagan Valley, which is like a desert, right?
And you know, you've got that natural landscape.
And then again, another few hour drive, you're in the Kootenays.
And again, just that wild wilderness.

(37:43):
It's all over the map.
It's beautiful.
It's incredible.
AndIf we kind of from there, if we kind of go along the border between BC and Alberta, that's
where we got the Rockies, right?
So that's where you got, you know, you got Banff, you know, everyone loves Banff.
It's a tourist town.
got Jasper, which unfortunately went through the big wildfires last year and a goodportion of the town just caught.

(38:06):
They had no chance.
It just happened too quick.
And even Canmore where the last of us was filmed.
I love Canmore.
It's a cool little mountain town, kind of like a Montana, but in Canada.
And then, like I said, then you kind of fly over all everything else and eventually, youknow, you're going to have Manitoba and eventually you're going to have Ontario, you know,
the big, you know, center of it and Quebec and then to the PAI and that.

(38:29):
So I want to go to the Far East at some point, check out those and traveling, you know, mylife and everything.
But personally, I've been across the country.
Yeah, I'm staying.
I want to stay in BC.
To me, it's my, if you're an out person,This is the place to be.
You've got your lakes.
There's thousands of lakes around you within, you know, minutes to a couple hours ofdriving.

(38:54):
I do a lot of, you know, recently I got back into overlanding and off-roading.
So I bought a brand new Bronco and everything.
And, we've been just having a blast with it.
We've been, doing a lot of the forest service roads, the FSR roads where we're, know, it'sjust miles and miles of, you know, it's, it's based on the logging industry, but

(39:14):
some amazing wicked hidden gems for that.
you know, like there's, there's apps out there that kind of even prompt you and give it toyou.
One of them is called a on X and everything.
It's all about, you know, anyone who wants to go off roading and check out these coolhidden gems go there and you kind of see it.
So, so I applied to them with the amount that we're starting to do.
I applied to be a trail guide for them and we got accepted.

(39:35):
So now I map for them and get free swag and it's all fun.
Right.
But what I like about it is it just encouraged me to be like, I haven't been here.
Let me just go here.
Let's go explore.
Andyou know, hey, we know there's some natural hot springs up at here.
Let's go check it out.
And let's go explore it and bring the bathing suit and bring the camping gear.
And, and yeah, like I said, if you're outdoorsy, it's, it's, it's a, it's a playground onits own.

(39:56):
And like, you look at the big map of like just British Columbia by itself.
And it's like, I've only been up to Prince George and there's still another province upthere.
Like, you know, I mean, there's still a half of it left to explore.
The you go, the more wildlife, everything.
It's incredible.
It is a really beautiful place.
So very grateful, know, born and raised here.

(40:18):
So when you're out doing your trail mapping, you camp?
Do you spend the night sometimes and just enjoy?
100%.
Yeah, you got to.
we like, even on the tailgate, Steve, we've got a little drop down table.
It's just awesome.
Because like, you know, you basically, if you want to have lunch, just pull up the dropthe tailgate back, you pull up this little table and boom, and then just put your Coleman

(40:41):
on there or your heater, your cooker or whatever.
And oh, sothat's part of there's no one else around right?
there's nobody around.
So if you're doing a big trip, you know, plan some like provincial parks or something likethat, because it's nice to have a I, you know, I'm okay to go for a few days without a
shower, but I like my showers.
So that's the only thing.

(41:04):
Your friends probably like your showers too, after a couple of days.
So have you found a place to get your Broncos stuck?
I haven't, we haven't got stuck yet.
But definitely, yeah, that's, there's a couple of adventure shows coming to like Vancouverplace and stuff.

(41:25):
So I'm definitely going there with a shopping list, like get into the radios and get into,you know, like again, just to recovery.
Like there's no winch on it right now, but those are things to start looking into.
Cause if you get penned, like sometimes we've gone and we haven't seen a single soul.
So if that's the case, you justwant to be out there.
if anything, do your due diligence, know, plan your plan your routes, make sure you'veadvised, you know, two different separate people and you know where you're going and make

(41:52):
sure you tell them when you get back and all those things of, you know, do your duediligence plan, be safe and yeah, just don't take any risks.
It's kind of like backpacking in a way.
You do the exact same thing except you're in a car.
Yeah, exactly.
It almost sounds like, hey, we have roads here in New Jersey, but you get in the back,pine barrens, and you have to wonder, will I ever see another person?

(42:26):
So I can imagine you get out on a trail like that.
Yeah, you have to be especially careful.
Well, yeah, and like, again, wildlife and everything, like we've got another trip plannedkind of early June up to Bella Coola.
So basically, again, looking at a map, you're to go up to Williams Lake, which again,everyone kind of sees and they drive.

(42:46):
It's a whole nother rainforest on its own to basically going west of that.
And that's where, you know, again, grizzlies and everything.
So we're very excited, but at same time.
doing your due diligence, planting your roots and seeing, again, there's a ton of littleoff roads.
There's actually, there's one waterfall.

(43:07):
Apparently it's the tallest in Canada I've been told about.
So I can't remember the name off the top of my head, but we've got that on the list tobasically explore.
And then when we get to Bella Coola, such a, you know, here's such a cool town.
We've got a ferry book that's going to take us through the channel through all thedifferent micro islands.
And it's a 10 hour trip to get to Vancouver Island, which again, it's a, it's an old andbeautiful place too.

(43:27):
like.
There's, yeah, if anyone's on the fence, if they've never been, yeah, you definitely gotto check that out.
And you can't do check it out on a weekend, you know what mean?
Like here I'm going on different vacations and even the weekend, you know, weekend warrioris still doing that kind of stuff.
It's tough.
Yeah, it's awesome hearing your stories about it.
And I said, when I fell in love with Kelowna, I can just imagine everything else isprobably as beautiful or more so.

(43:55):
Yeah, in Kelowna, yeah, that's kind of like a California, but it's one that sees all theseasons, right?
You get the beautiful fall, get the, you know, you get the big dumps of snow.
And then when, you know, when you get the summer, like it's, it's, it's incredible becauseof, it's like its own beach town, right?
And it's a definitely, it's a fun place.

(44:15):
Been there many times.
I did a lot of schools up there.
lot of great, the school districts that I worked with there was fantastic and great bunchof people.
And it's all about relationships when you do these road trips because you know, you can't,yes, you can do it in and out one day, but you're exhausted, know, spend the night, take
that client out for a steak dinner or something, build those relationships as it justgoes, that just goes the extra mile, right?

(44:39):
And in terms of the industry, right?
It goes with anything in life.
You have a built-in benefit for negotiating with contractors.
You just take them outdoors and go sit at a restaurant.
I mean, anywhere in BC.
How could anybody be mad?
Look at the scenery.
Look at the weather.

(45:00):
It's great.
It's awesome.
Exactly.
A hundred percent.
Yeah.
And you mentioned contractors.
did one job where, yeah, was, we were up in Kamloops.
So different than Kelowna.
I would go to Kelowna, but anyways, but yeah, we were doing a job with them and it was, itwas great.
And afterwards like, you know, you guys are going to be in the town cause they flew wherethey were flowing, flying in from Alberta and all in Calgary and everything like that.

(45:24):
AndThey stay the night, we were staying the night.
It's like, well, what do want to do?
So we ended up going to the casino to one of those steak places there and we grabbed a fewTomahawk steaks, which I've never done before.
What a riot we had after that.
And again, it's all about relationships, right?
And that's if you can do that kind of stuff and enjoy it.
goes, yeah, it goes a long way.

(45:44):
sure does because it's all about the people building the relationships.
And that ties into like the projects too on its own, because you know, if you can do thatand work and communicate and work together, it goes a lot better, right?
It is a team environment.
You're going to scratch my back vice versa.
I'm going to, you're going to find faults in my drawings, but you're going to, I'm goingto find faults on site that you guys missed something.

(46:09):
How can we work together, right?
It doesn't have to be us versus the contractor relationship.
If you work together at the end of day, you really do come together andcreate a big product.
Cause when you do wrap that project off, you do want to, you know, bring that bottle ofchampagne and crack it open and have, you know, have a great moment.
Look what we did.
We stuck to the drawings.
We did all the attention to detail and look what we have.

(46:30):
This is incredible.
Well done team.
You don't want to go into that point where you guys are fighting and everything.
And it's just, it's just not fun.
It's just not the same thing.
That makes CA miserable.
And you'd like to be able to finish the job and say, let's do another one together.
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
And we've had those contractors like, and too, like when, you know, you, there's all thesepre-qualifications as well for a lot of jobs, like school districts will do a

(46:57):
pre-qualification.
It's not just for, you know, architects, but they also do it for contractors.
And, and you're right.
That's, you know, it does play a role into, would you work with this contractor again?
Yes or no.
And just, you know, you speak professionally about everyone, of course, butYeah, I know there's, there's, is some contractors that school districts will not work
with because of lawsuits or whatever, just the way they handled the business.

(47:20):
Right.
And it's unfortunate that you, you know, you've, you've been locked out and we're travel.
the architectural industry is small, right?
You know, it's, you don't, you don't talk negative about anyone because the end of theday, you might be working with them next or rejoining with them, you know, a few years
later, right?
It's just, it's such a small industry, a hundred percent.
And specs, I'm assuming it's the same thing, right?

(47:41):
So it even smaller.
YouSo Matt, we're almost at our time here, at least our planned time.
Let me interject something before you go there.
Let's have you back on again.

(48:02):
Do it.
Absolutely.
going wrap this up here in a few minutes, but this is a great conversation.
I'm looking at my notes from when we talked earlier, and there's like four or five itemsthat we didn't even touch on that I would love to touch on with you later.
Absolutely.
Let's continue this discussion.
Maybe if you want, we can overlap.
We can ask some of your questions on your podcast, then you come back to ours and we'llfigure that Absolutely.

(48:24):
Yeah, we can definitely, that would be a lot of fun to prepare.
yeah, cause that's the thing with drawings and specs.
there's, there's so many conversations that you can have about that from, again, from yourexperience as a store.
And again, how can we be better going forward and how can we, you know, minimize theerrors on site and the extras, right.
And coming up with that again, that BMW.

(48:45):
how I can make you lose money as a specifier and how you can make me lose money as anarchitect.
That's right, that's a topic on its own.
Lots.
ways.
Yep.
Anyway, sorry, Dave.
I just wanted to make sure that Matt was coming back.
Well, now that you've grabbed the microphone, Steve, maybe you need to take this home.

(49:05):
All right.
think Matt, we're going to ask you because of the podcast game in five words or less, howcan you improve?
Words are important.
In five words or less.
Fewer.

(49:32):
So not not five were made terrible sounds of itSo five words or fewer.
Go ahead, Steve.
So in fewer or less than five words, how can the industry improve CA?
Dave's head is spinning in circles right now.
Yeah, my head's spinning too.

(49:52):
That's lot of pressure, Nick.
Clearly we can't use five words.
We've established the ground rules.
There has to be four words.
We can use five.
Five words or fewer.
I think.
If I had to kind of narrow down, and this can go so many ways and maybe I can explain, butcommunication is key, right?

(50:14):
And that goes with everything that ties back to drawings.
It ties into the way you communicate on site, your mannerism when you're running a sitemeeting.
Communication is key.
Actually, I think that those three words can go with just about everything in life.

(50:36):
Yes.
Oh, 100%.
It is.
It's your legacy, right?
What are you doing?
At the end of the day, when you're hanging up your coat, your hat at that moment, what didyou leave behind?
What was the thumb prints that you left?
both professionally, of course, but personally too.
And to drive it home, you could use three words.
Communication, communication, communication.

(50:58):
So.
You've got five, you guys will go with two more.
I'll stop it.
Everybody will just get tired of hearing me if I keep going.
Bye.
no, thank you so much.
Really appreciate the opportunity to be here and chat.
like that went like that, you know, it went quick and like, absolutely.
Let's do it again.
There's a whole other segment of, of, like I said, specs drawings, all the other topicsthat we can definitely go in and dive into.

(51:25):
again, just leave that mentorship of how people can be better.
Absolutely.
Matt, a pleasure to have you join us today.
Thank you for taking the time and awesome insights.
And I loved hearing the stories about your mapping trail.
So something different for our listeners.

(51:47):
100%.
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Keep exploring.
Life is short and you one shot it.
Make it beautiful.
So what did you think?
Did anything stand out?
Learn anything?
know, specs, kind a bit about me and all that.
I personally want to thank David, Steve and Tina for just, again, organizing this, forinviting me on the show.

(52:10):
And I definitely can't wait to be back on their show.
Right.
And hopefully it'll be live in person next time.
I, you know, we had a whole bunch of talking points that we didn't quite get to gothrough.
So I know we're going to definitely get together again.
I, I've known David for a few years here.
Same with Steve.
I've attended both classes from them at CSI events.

(52:32):
Fantastic topics, you know, creates lots of discussion, engaging.
Steve actually did this kind of design build Lego session andIt's sticking with me for life.
It was such a great session and it just brought you a different perspective to way IPDversus CM versus, you know, fixed Tinder.
But it was a really cool session and it was all featured on Lego, something we can allrelate.

(52:54):
But be sure to check out their website, check out the Deliberate Podcast, Deliberate WordsPodcast.
They do it kind of on monthly basis and everything.
They bring on guests and they've got a lot of great insights.
So that's it.
Hope you picked up something and enjoyed it.
And until next time, architects keep designing and contractors keep making thoseblueprints in reality.

(53:15):
We'll see you on the next one.
you