The Steel Detailer's Perspective on RFIs

In this episode, Matt Brennan and Adam Williams delve into the intricacies of steel detailing and the challenges faced in the construction industry, particularly focusing on Requests for Information (RFIs). They discuss the roles of architects, contractors, and steel detailers, emphasizing the importance of communication and accurate drawings. Adam shares his extensive experience in steel detailing, the mentorship he received, and the need for better coordination among professionals in the field. The conversation highlights common issues with RFIs, the impact of BIM technology, and the necessity for a collaborative approach to ensure successful project outcomes. In this conversation, Adam Williams and Matt Brennan discuss the intricacies of steel detailing, the challenges faced in communication and collaboration within the construction industry, and the importance of early engagement in the design process. They emphasize the need for clarity in drawings, the value of teamwork, and the role of technology in improving communication. The discussion also touches on learning from mistakes and the necessity of working better together to enhance project outcomes.

Takeaways

• Steel detailing is a critical yet often overlooked aspect of construction.
• RFIs can significantly delay projects if not managed properly.
• Communication between architects, engineers, and detailers is essential.
• BIM technology can help reduce RFIs and improve coordination.
• Understanding the roles of different professionals can enhance project efficiency.
• The construction industry needs to recognize the importance of steel detailing.
• Effective project management involves tracking RFIs and maintaining clear communication. Understanding RFIs is crucial for project management.
• Regular check-ins help maintain clarity in communication.
• Direct communication can resolve many RFIs quickly.

Sound Bites

• "There's more than meets the eye when it comes to RFIs."
• "I have to go through the fabricator, then the GC."
• "Nobody knows what steel detailing is."
• "We create a puzzle."
• "I want to know where every part of the job is."
• "Why has this RFI been out this long?"
• "You're just trying to get this information."
• "How can we start working together in a better way?"
• "Communication is key to getting rid of RFIs."
• "We all got to work better together."
• "Let's try and start eliminating surprises on the site."

Chapters

• 00:00 - Introduction to Steel Detailing and RFIs
• 02:11 - Understanding the Role of Steel Detailers
• 04:46 - The RFI Process and Its Challenges
• 10:32 - The Importance of Accurate Drawings
• 12:08 - Mentorship in Steel Detailing
• 14:26 - Communication Gaps in the Industry
• 19:19 - BIM and Coordination Challenges
• 26:17 - RFIs: Common Issues and Best Practices
• 29:03 - Understanding RFIs and Communication in Detailing
• 32:15 - Collaboration Challenges in the Construction Industry
• 37:02 - The Importance of Early Engagement in Design
• 41:57 - Improving Drawing Clarity and Communication
• 46:48 - Learning from Mistakes in Detailing
• 49:00 - The Role of Teamwork in Successful Projects
• 53:15 - Leveraging Technology for Better Communication
• 57:11 - Working Better Together: A Call to Action

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Steel detailing. There's more that meetsthe eye when it comes to
RFI's. Let's get into it.Welcome to What the RFI. I'm Matt
Brennett and this is the podcast allabout CA. This has been
a very busy week. I've been connectingwith a lot of architects in
the New York City and the niceencouragement thing that came from it is

(00:24):
that work is still movingdespite these trade wars,
tariffs and everything and federal cuts.We're still seeing work
and again I was meeting withanother group from North Carolina. Things
are moving. There's alot of growth which is very
exciting and today's episode is going tobe another different one
involving sub-trades andGCs and architects. We don't really talk

(00:48):
about this. We haven'treally talked about this on the
podcast episode in that sense and I'vegot a very special guest today and
welcome to the show,Adam. Why don't you tell the audience how
we met, where things havebeen going, who you are,
where do you do before we get into it? Somy name is Adam Williams. We

(01:08):
met through LinkedIn. I put apost on there kind of nicely ranting
about RFI's and you commented on it andasked me to be on the
show and I gladly accepted because I liketo share knowledge. So
about me, I am a still detailer.I've been doing it for over 25 years and

(01:29):
I've been a detailer,checker, detailing manager, trainer,
done a little bit of all that you can doin the detailing world.
Currently, I'm the leaddetailer at Aspen Fabricating and Welding
in St. Louis, Missouri.Nice, very cool and kind of like for our

(01:50):
audience, young architects, architectssetting the stage and
just kind of bringing it up, like therundown with how a
standard project works. Ideally,typically it's the owner hires the
architect and the architect hires asub-consultants in that sense.
They put a job out to tender, maybe it'sCM, whatever the case is,
they're awarded a projectwith the GC and at that point, the GC has

(02:15):
been collecting all thebids from the sub trades and
in this case, a steel company and then ofcourse, that steel company
is probably a sub-trade you,would that probably might cut on line?
Yeah, I work directly fora fabricator. So we have an
in-house detailing team, but a lot offabricators do not. So they
hire out another sub-trade,which would be the detailers. Right, so

(02:39):
exactly. So now with this kind of pitch,either role in this hierarchy that we've
kind of visually explained is yeah,so when you're starting to work on the
job, you're workingunder the GC in that sense,
because he's hired you and where we'regoing to see this episode
is kind of like it's yourperspective on the job versus architect

(03:03):
versus contractor, becausewe're going to see it from
a different light now from yours and whythe RFI is are being
triggered, what we're seeing.And at the end of the episode, hopefully
we can see a clarity ofhow can we give you the
best knowledge, the best drawings, thebest specs, so you know how to do your
job properly. And justagain, eliminate the time from that back

(03:25):
and forth, back andforth. And that's what I'm kind
of hoping to see this episode all about.So yeah, I feel anything you
want to add to kind of thatapproach in terms of how you see it from
your side, because again,you got the whole different
perspective here than what I do. Right.So for me to get a question to an
engineer or an architect,if I'm a subcontractor to the fabricator,

(03:47):
that means I have to gothrough the fabricator,
then I have to go through the GC, andthen it gets to hopefully
where it needs to go. So wehave to follow the AISC manual here in
the States. So it statesthat for the approval process,
there's two weeks approval process.There's no timeline for

(04:07):
RFI. So we can send an RFI in,and it could be six weeks before we get
an answer back. And why isthat? Why is that? Why is six
weeks? Why give or take? It could be, itcould be, we could get
them back as fast as three,three hours, but sometimes it takes
forever. And I can't explainwhy. My next question is what do
you, what is the answer for this? And theDC is rewriting it and

(04:29):
trying to answer it themselves,or how exactly where that lag is. And as
we all know in theindustry, if you take six weeks to
answer a question, that's six weeks, I'mnot working on your
job. And in that six weeks,if I am a detailing firm, I may have
taken another job because I can't sit onmy hands for six weeks

(04:51):
waiting on an answer. Exactly. Whichmeans you lost your slot,
and we'll come back to your jobwhen we can get to it. Right. People
don't like, but sadly it'sa reality. Do you think it's
set with the contractor or you think it'sbecause of the architect and his
structural engineer orwhere do you kind of think it lies? Is
it, or it's just acombination? I can't answer that. I have

(05:12):
heard horror stories of where people havesaid in RFI's and engineers
have stated, we've spent ourbudget on this job. We're not answering
it anymore. Yeah. So now I have questionsbecause your drawings
were wrong. Who's to answer? Now, what dowe do with this job? 100%.

(05:33):
No, and you're right. Andthere's a few quotes that with some of
the clients I'veworked with and it's like,
the quote was like, our whole goal is notto lose our money when it comes to CA.
And that's the thing,it is a really challenging thing from the
architectural point.Because you basically
got a fixed fee for the whole entire job.You've allocated say
20% for 25, you know,anywhere from kind of 15 to 25% for CA's

(05:58):
or fees. And then, hopefullyduring the design development
and then CD, you didn't burn it. Maybethe client, you had a really
difficult client that you'reconstantly making revisions, revisions,
all that takes time and nowyou just burn the fee out of
the job. Then you go to CA and you'relike, oh my goodness, I
don't even have that fee.And that's really tough. Or the other

(06:18):
scenario is, hey, you didgreat. You were very profitable in
that job and I've been on some of thosejobs, but we're rocking it.
We've, you know, we really gotit out. We got it on time, on budget, and
we're on fees. And then weget a fund contractor that's
looking for that extra and they justinundate you with paperwork
and then you just start burningthat fees and it becomes a full-time
career and it should neverhave been that. So it's a,

(06:40):
you're absolutely right with how you kindof let into this conversation,
little soapbox moment I had with it. Butyou're right. It's, if
they don't have fees, but thatdoesn't alleviate from the excuse of not
doing it. They still got togive you what you need to do
your job because it's your time. And likewe, some of the
problems we run into, like,I'd like to throw a lot of it up to,

(07:03):
they're just bad drawings. Like, I'mworking on a job that I
sent in an RFI. It was like fourquestions, simple questions. I believe
they were simple questions.And we got an entire set of revised
drawings and it wasn't just, like, weadded all your answers
into it, which is great. You gave me anupdated set, except for you
changed the sizes of steel,you changed all this other stuff. And a

(07:27):
lot of the still on thisproject had to be mill ordered
because it was specialty sizes that youcan't just buy off the
shelf. So now it's already beenrolled. We've already purchased it, but
now you've changed the sizes. So nowwe're stuck with this
still because you changed it. So that inturn, as the fabricator comes
back to, you got to buy bothparts of steel if you want us to use

(07:47):
those new shapes becausewe ordered per your design.
Right. Absolutely.But luckily on this job, they came back
and they're like, well,their original sizes were fine.
And then now as a detailer, you're going,well, why did you change
them in the first place?Mm hmm. Yeah. Are you finding with? Yeah,
it was a good point whenyou bring that steel in,
like, yeah, there is a change. And I knowthat, of course, you

(08:09):
guys are going to be a comp,you're going to send an invoice to the
contractor who's going togo request an extra from the
architect and all that kind of stuff. Areyou managed to reuse that
steel in a different job?Ideally, yes. Like, you're going to have
waste because it's notgoing to be the perfect length.
You can't really splice it. And I guessyou can. But if it's a common
size, yes. So if we were usingjust a 18, a W 18 by 35, that's really

(08:34):
common on a lot of jobs.But on this particular job,
it was W 14 by 145. Okay. In 25 years,I've never seen that size called out.
Right. Good point. So we can't, you know,sometimes you can
sub, like if they want an1835 and you have 1855, you can sub that
in and they're okay withit. But I can't sub in a beam

(08:55):
that's a hundred pounds per foot morethan the beam that they
asked for. Right. Yeah. No,that's a good, yeah. I want to like,
we're going to come back tothat. Cause we're going to talk
about how can we again, as anarchitectural community and everything,
how can we make thisprocess better? So that's a good point
about spec and the right size of, youknow, the standard size
of beams, the ones that are readilyavailable and everything,

(09:17):
unless, Hey, there's that onecool feature that just requires it in the
structural engineers noting, but yeah,let's come back to the
standard sizes and just kind of like asidebar question. What got
you into this field? Like what,what, what, what interest of do you deal,
do you have detailing and stuff?To be honest, when I got into the field,
I had no clue what still detailing was.I took drafting in high school to a

(09:41):
community college, continued takingdrafting there and they
had a job to work. I applied to every jobon the board because I
didn't want to work in fast foodanymore. And I had an interview with the
company that I started withand I called them every day
after the interview until I think theyjust got tired of me calling
and hired me. Uh, I think Ijust wore them down. And so from then,

(10:03):
like even when I was there,it was four years before I was
like, I kind of understand what I'm doingnow. I still don't know it
all. I, the guy who trainedto me, still my mentor, I call him when I
still have questions andhe helps me out. I, we get
together, we play golf together now. Andbut, you know, he's still my
mentor will probably alwaysbe my mentor. And I'm appreciative of

(10:26):
everything that he'staught. And so in my perspective,
I wouldn't do the same thing. I don'treally have people to train, but the
world's different now.When I was learning, you know, we had the
internet, but it isn'tanything like it is now. So I can
share my knowledge on LinkedIn, or I'malso a member of a group.
I'm part of the marketingcommittee for the NISD, which is the

(10:49):
national Institute of stilldetail. And it says national,
but it's worldwide. You don't have to bein the U S to be a member.
And, you know, there's a lotof big things that they do and they're
trying to help out trying topush still detail and forward
is what their goal is. And they've beenaround since like
1969, I believe. So they'vehad their time and now we're just

(11:14):
continuing to build on.That's so cool. And I appreciate it. And
that was kind of likewhat the last episode is all
about mentorship too. And, and shortlyafter we published that one
and connected with a one groupthat like, they create these old intranet
kind of solutions that thearchitects put on their thing.
And it's all about the mentorship living,how they, you know, kind
of making your standardpractice, your SOPs and everything. And

(11:34):
again, cause that is thething is like, how can we be
better? How can we communicate for thelongest time architects? And
it won't talk to each otherin that sense. And, you know, having that
open community, there'san app idea by itself.
We'll see, but, but no, it's, it's, it'sappreciated cause it is, you know, the
new generation comingin and they're not, they're not swinging
hammers or anything likethat. They're clicking buttons.
They want to just be part of the fun, youknow, sexy stuff when it

(11:57):
comes to it. But when it comesto the drawing of the details and
everything, that's, there's alot of gaps there. And that's
where, you know, individual, like you're,you know, telling your
story and you're, you're,you're explaining these frustrations and
stuff like that and howto, how can we be better?
So we just do it once and do it rightattitude versus like I said, just over
and over and orderingwrong pieces of steel cause steel is not

(12:17):
cheap. No. And we also havethe problem in my, in my trade
of the still detailing is nobody knowswhat it is. You don't go
to school and they're like,do you want to learn still detail? You go
to school and like, do youwant to learn architectural?
Do you want to learn engineering? Butnobody, you know, beyond that it's, you
can learn how to well,but where's that in between person that

(12:40):
is in between theengineering and the welders.
That's right. And that's what kind ofwhat still detailing it's
like. I always tell everybody,it's like, we create a puzzle, make all
the pieces, but then wegive you the key to put
the puzzle together. All right. I loveit. That's, that's, that's
your song clip right there. Thatis perfectly how to explain it. That is
incredible. So, andwe've kind of, this is,
this is a great segue into the steeldetailers challenge

(13:02):
and everything. You know,we kind of touched on some of the points
previously, but what doyou find is the common issue
when it comes to the design drawings andthen kind of what you're
doing and what it's givento you? What is kind of like, Oh no,
again and again andagain, they seem problems.
A lot of it is, it seems to everybodybelow, once you get past the bidding

(13:26):
phase, that it doesn'tappear that people like to talk. So we'll
get architecture drawingsand we'll get the structural
drawings and grid lines don't match anddimensions don't match. Walls are in
different locations.It's just like, are we, I worked for an
engineering firm whenI first started. And
back then, like the architect was intheir drawings over, they

(13:48):
would overlay their drawingsand that's how they're made. This is back
in 2d auto-cad. So alot has changed and others
rev it now. And, but it's, it almostseems like people just aren't
talking. So we're getting thisno coordination between the two, the two
professions. Yeah. Yougot it. That's the best

(14:12):
thing I can think of. And so we run intothose problems, but then you get into
the engineers that are drawing thedrawings. Have they been to a fabrication
shop? Have they beento a job site? Because they'll show a
connection. You look at theconnection and you're like,
Hey, that thing looks really good. Andthen we go to draw it and it's like,

(14:33):
I can't even get my hand in there to puta bolt in place because
tolerances and then shipping,like how much can you ship? Like we can
fabricate you a 90 footlong column if you want,
but then we're going to have to permitload it. And if we build it
in Indiana and we have to shipit to North Carolina, that's not just one

(14:53):
permit. That's a permit inIndiana and Kentucky, you know,
every state. So shipping that one piecegets really expensive. So
then we ask, Hey, can wesplice it? And that's where the RFI
start. Hey, I know you want itthis long, but it can be a lot
cheaper if you let us go. And startchanging. Are you, and

(15:17):
with the drawings, are you,you're typically going off the structural
engineers drawings.Are you looking at the
architectural as well? We are, asdetailers, we have to look at all the
drawings. So we start withthe structural drawings, but then we are
also digging into thearchitectural drawings. We're
digging into the electrical. We'redigging into the mechanical because

(15:38):
making sure everything fits.Like we have to make sure those rooftop
units are going to fit where they saythey're going to fit.
Because as an architect, you go, I wantit in about this spot, but then the
structural guy comes inand is like, well, I need joist at this
spacing. And like now thatthrows off the architectural
roof plan because the joists are in theway of where they

(15:59):
originally want. And BIM has helpedwith this a lot whenever you do a BIM
job. And BIM has also helpedalleviate a lot of these RFI's
because the first question almost everydetailer sends out is I need
locations of all the rooftopopenings and everything because, and it's
one of the last things weget because the HVAC guys are

(16:19):
one of the last people hired. Yeah. Yeah.No, exactly. And then
of course, the mechanicalengineer can say what they want. They can
look at the cut sheets.And then of course, this is
people in the channel know I hatealternates because when
alternates come in, that startsscrewing things up too. But yeah, the
more that you can coordinateduring that design proposal,
the better. And we were introduced,notice my last firm, we

(16:40):
were introduced to a new clientin a new region, which was awesome. And
we got to, you know, therequest of the client says,
can we work with your consultant? Wesaid, sounds good. They were all AutoCAD
and we were all Revit.Right. So we said, sounds good. Let's
work together. That's all good. We gotthe structural drawings
and I was, you know, because they weren'tusing Revit, we modeled
everything, you know, in thestructural steel and everything. And then

(17:02):
we were bringing it inbecause we wanted to ensure,
and you nailed it on the head when youset out, I'm like, it's way
better. It's coordinated becausewe were looking at that. And next thing
you know it, you know, we got themechanical drawings and
we drive on most of the major big duckwork just to ensure then
like, you know, guys, this doesn'twork. You know, you got a major beam and

(17:23):
we're not going to dropthat ceiling down to, you know,
seven feet. Like this is a public school.Like we were open for 12
foot ceilings in these like opencorridor areas. And I think the other one
that was quite comicaland it was very embarrassing
for the structural, but we got thestructural drawings. They
wouldn't tell us where thingswere changing. And then next thing we're
in the site meeting orexcuse me, in the design meeting

(17:44):
with the owner and we like took just, youknow, we looked at through
the drawings. They didn'tidentify what was changed and we found
it, you know, because I'd have all thesedifferent highlighting
copies of their work trying to discover.And they put the beam right underneath
the toilets in the washroom and it'slike, we can't have this. And I'm so
thankful that we were soproactive in using, you know, Revit and

(18:05):
really visualizing anddoing these sections every few
feet when we got more and more down thedetail in the CD phase is
that we caught that becauseif that was the case, like what would you
do in that last minute? Thebeams and like you guys are,
you know, early on, like you'd beredesigning all the interior
architecture and that's nevera fun thing. Like, are you finding that

(18:26):
you're getting those requests too? Like,Hey, we need to redesign this because
that beam can't work inthis location or something like
something example like that. I've been,I've been on some BIM jobs
where people are like, Hey,can you move your beam three inches so my
duct can fit through? AndI'm like, I can't. And then
I'm like, why not? And I'm like, becausemy stuff is holding the
building up. Yeah. So that's onenice thing about being the still detailer

(18:49):
in BIM meetings andstuff like that is because
a lot of my responses are we probablycan, but it's going to cost
a lot of money because it'snot just me being able to go, yeah, I'll
move that beam. That'sgoing to be me RFI in it.
Then there's going to be a change orderand you know, it's just going to stack
and stack and stack.And then finally, the typically the HVAC
guy is just like, I canjust move my stuff. I'm like,

(19:12):
why do we have this conversation? But Iunderstand they've got their model done.
They don't want to change their model.Just like, I don't
want to change my model.Right. Yeah. And you, and you finding
that you were getting involved in this,in the site meetings or the kind of like
kept at arm's length because again,it's the GC contractor though, the ones
that, cause again, likewhen we did our site meetings,

(19:32):
like we weren't bringing subtrades intothe meeting. It was
just between architects,the design team, the owner, the GC, you
know, that was kind ofit. The subtrades were not
involved in those meetings because it wasvery, you know, do you find that you,
where you're working, you're actuallygetting more involved
in that or is it just.I think it's a little different like your
site meetingscompared to the BIM meetings,

(19:55):
because when you were coordinatingeverything, you're
modeling everything in. And thenthe jobs I've worked on that have been
BIM jobs is there's a BIMcoordinator and then all the
trades are creating models. And thenthose models are being
coordinated with each other. So theystart with the architectural and
structural engineers model,but then by the time the model

(20:15):
is done, those models have all beenturned off because
they're using everybody else'sfor lack of better way of saying it, like
more accurate models, like our level of,I can't remember the words I'm trying to
think of so we can cut that.Oh, it's all good.
But it's like the LOD. What's the D for?Okay.

(20:41):
But so like if you're looking at say ahelicopter's view,
I'm looking at an answerbecause I have to put all the bolts
exactly where they go. The structuralengineer don't care where
the bolts go. They just know I need aconnection here. And I'm
telling you, you need seven boltshere. So our model is a lot more defined
because it has to be.Exactly. And it's in any way. And that's

(21:06):
a good note because it isfrustrating when the structure,
I've had some structural engineers dothat. And I really
appreciate that. Like just even justgeneral, like, you know, the gusset
plates or whatever, and thenkind of the base plates and
the bolts and stuff. Because from thearchitectural standpoint is if, you know,
again, we know the sizeof the beam, you know, the column,
whatever the case is in the drywall,we've doubled up our,

(21:27):
you know, our steel studs to accommodate.Oh, by the way, there's fire
spray on this. So thereforewe've got a one inch perimeter around
there. And we know that, youknow, if we know the beams are
going to be crossing at different anglesand there is a certain amount of
tolerance that they'reallowed to do that. One job, we had to do
a whole extra strappingbecause we just didn't have quite
the cavity space to manage that. But samething when you got that,

(21:47):
you know, the base plate andthat kind of stuff. Typical structural
engineers aren't modelingthat in. And for structural
engineers listening to this, it'd be niceif you started doing that,
modeling it. And then when thewhen the architect gets it, he goes, oh,
we've got to make this wallcavity a little bit bigger
because you've got this base plate that'sjust protruding out or
it's, you know, whatever thecase is. Right. I have a buddy who's an

(22:08):
architect. He has an architectural firmhere in my hometown.
And he did a job to where it all lookedgood on paper. It got built
and he went out and did it.And he's like, why is that base plate
sticking out from the wall?Yeah. And then it wasn't the
steel detailers fault. It was hisengineer's fault. The engineer didn't
look at, oh, we need to putthat in the concrete. He was just like,

(22:29):
oh, it just goes right there.And whoever detailed it didn't
look at the architectural drawingsbecause that is something you should do.
Like, do they really wantthis base plate sticking out of the wall?
Probably not. Architects are designingfor visual appearance.
Exactly. In the details. So do you want asix foot by six foot gusset
plate in the corner that'sgoing to stick out of your walls? You

(22:51):
don't want that. Yeah.Unless it's a design feature.
And of course it's a design feature. Youknow, that's how it is.
We're walking around and say,oh yeah, owner, that's a design feature.
Yeah. I like the, I likethe plates being procured.
And like, I know you had a guest on acouple episodes ago, David Long,
long three. Yes. Yeah. David.I'm trying his name and I apologize for

(23:14):
that. Long three. But hesaid like an architect has
to have the knowledge of like an oceanwide. And I don't know how
deep he said, but my buddy said,like he was taught in college that it's a
mile wide inch deep.That's how he worded it. And I
was like, well, that makes a lot ofsense. You know, like does he need to
know how the steel goestogether? Right. Absolutely. But for

(23:37):
still detailers, we have to know how thesteel goes together.
We need to know how thick that two bypiece of wood is, you
know, there's a lot more tostill detail and then just the still.
Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Lateral, allthe different loads,
everything. Yeah, you're right. And thenof course, you know, you

(23:58):
mentioned earlier aboutrooftop units and all that and tying to
coordinate that. Allthose things are really,
really, really critical. So when. Sorryto interrupt. That was the
post I posted on LinkedIn.You commented on was about I sent off a
question saying I needrooftop locations and they send me
a hundred pages of cut sheets. Yeah. Idon't need a hundred pages. I

(24:24):
just need the one that showsthe actual curves is what I really need.
And preferably I don'teven want that. I want you
to take a drawing and go from this gridline to the center line of
the opening is whatever distancebecause that's all I really care about.
Like I don't care thatthat air conditioned unit
has three openings in it and it weighs6,500 pounds. I just

(24:47):
need to know where it goes.Yeah. Yeah. And it ties to the mechanical
because he needs his duck work andeverything. And then
of course that ties to the sub trade. Andyeah, again, like you said,
it was beginning like it'scommunication. Guys just need to chat and
communicate. And thatgets us into the realm
of our advice. Why, you know, request forinformation is needed
in terms of it. What areyou, you know, again, we kind of touched

(25:09):
on earlier, but likewhat, what are typical RFIs
that you're that you were personallyissue. And here's the
caveat. What's the worst RFIthat you've seen that you had to issue
because it just wasn't there for theworst RFI? I don't know.
I was trying to think of this and I can'treally think of one. I can
think of one of the worstjobs for RFIs that I worked on. I was a

(25:30):
detailing manager at thetime and we had a subcontractor
detailer. Yeah. And for the AISC manual,it says that we're only
allowed to ask one question at atime. Unless the request, unless the
multiple questions deal withone thing. So like if I was
talking about a stare, I can ask multiplequestions about that stare,
but in an RFI, I shouldn't beasking a question about a stare, a

(25:51):
column, a ladder, because they're alldifferent things. And
if I ask about just the stare, thearchitect engineer can focus
on just the stare questionsand get those answers without having to
dig into everything else. Somight be able to get answers
back more quickly. Right. Now, a lot ofdetailers don't do that because, you
know, now we're goingto start racking up RFIs. So we had a

(26:12):
job, it was at a aluminumplant and we had 160 RFIs on it.
Just on steel detailing. Just on thesteel detail. Wow. That's crazy. Do you
know how many RFIs werefor the whole project? I do not. At the
time I could have lookedin Procore and seen, but

(26:33):
I don't have access to Procore anymore.And I'm happy about that. A
lot of architects are too.They're not, Procore is not a fun
program. It's not just Procore, just anyof those types of the
software. I think they are great. Theyhelp the GCs out and I'm
with part three, I'm sure helpsout the architect. But as once it gets

(26:56):
past the GCs, it's like it'sbeing forced on everybody else.
Like typically in our contract, itdoesn't say anything about
Procore, but then we get told,well, you have to do this in Procore. And
it's like, I don't haveto. I can be nice and do it
in Procore. But technically that's notpart of my contract. My job

(27:17):
is to get you the informationand the GCs project manager is to
disperse it. Right. Well,that's a great kind of point too,
like with RFIs and communication, how youguys are doing it, what
you find is working. Is thereany kind of tips that you've seen over
the years? Like, yeah, youdon't mention Procore and you
typically probably email it. Like how areyou guys even tracking your
RFIs? I have a spreadsheet thattracks all my, I don't know how my

(27:41):
project manager does it.And I know other detailers,
they just send in an RFI to their projectmanager and just let it go.
From there on until they getanswered, they don't think about it. But
me coming from being adetailing manager, I want to know
where every part of the job I'm workingon is. And that's just probably from
years and years of doingit. How long has that RFI been out? Why

(28:04):
has that RFI been out for 54 days? Yeah.Yeah. That lets me go, Hey, why is this
RFI I've been out this long?And then my project manager
go, Oh, it slipped through the cracks onme. Let me check on it. So it's just
redundancy of knowingwhere things are. And like, as us, again,

(28:24):
from the architecturalpoint, we have monthly site
meetings and that's a check-in and youknow, it's basically the whole
point of a site meeting is togo over the issues of the day-to-day job
and, you know, look at theoutstanding RFIs, look at all
those things. And that's kind of our, ourkind of, you know, quality
check and everything. And ofcourse, you know, like I said, to deal
with issues. Do you guys as a steeldetailer, like again,

(28:46):
you've got your RFIs that you're givingto the contractor and then
of course he's supposed topass that along. Are you guys, you must
be doing your monthlymeetings with the contractor and
going, Hey, like contractor, we've gotall these outstanding items
you're doing that weekly orwhat's kind of your, your plan of tack? I
usually, when I created RFI, Isent it to my project manager.
I don't know how he handles itspecifically. I know when

(29:07):
I was a detailing manager,every time I would send an RFI, I would
have a list of all theoutstanding RFIs on there. I would
say RFI number 23 was sent on this dayand then, you know, just have it. So
every time they got myemail, they would have a checklist to go,
okay, so you guys are stilllooking for all these RFIs.

(29:28):
Right. Yeah, exactly. Well, ultimatelyyou're chasing clarity in
this design intent to makethis happen. Yes. You're just trying to
do your work because thattimes into the response impact
and you kind of touched on it, you know,jobs can get shelved if
they're not, if the architect orthe GC or wherever these kind of
slipping, because at the end of the day,you're at the bottom,
that sense of you're trying to get thisinformation and get out. And if someone's

(29:51):
not given it to you,you're not going to sit on your thumbs.
Right. And, you know, like a lot ofdetailers and myself
included, like if I could speak with theengineer, a lot of these RFIs could just
be done over a phonecall. Right. We're willing to have the
phone call, the conversation,and then we will even follow up
with an email to everybody that's on theproject saying this is what was

(30:15):
discussed, but a lot ofgatekeeping is done. Interesting. So
you're not really, yeah, you're notgetting that interaction
with the structural engineer because he'sthe one that you're trying to please,
you're trying to gethis clarity on it and the architect's
just, you know, like Isaid, just so there's no massive
plate sticking out in the floor orwhatever, but you're finding that more
and more is there's a lotof gatekeepers that you can't go right to

(30:36):
the source. It's prettymuch kind of been that way
my whole career. Some detailers arehaving more luck getting in because the
first thing we do withdrawings is when somebody gives me a set
of drawings, I'm notjust starting detailing it.
I'm spending two days going through thedrawings, finding all the
setup for my 3D modeling softwareand looking for any questions that I know

(30:58):
need to be asked. So let'sget those out before we even
get going on the job because that's whatneeds to happen so we can
get the answers and it doesn'tslow us down. And this is where I want to
kind of really kind ofshift the gears. We kind of talk
about the challenges, the pains, thefrustrations, what's ticking
us off and, you know, and itgets old, it like impacts money too. Like

(31:21):
that's the big ultimatething. At the end of the day,
we're doing this to make a decent wage,we're trying to get
there. And it's frustrating ifthings are a collaboration and
coordination is just not working out. Itis extremely frustrating
because like I said, it all ties in andtimes into timelines and
delays and it's not just youbeing affected, it affects everyone after
you because you've gotthe mechanical, you know,

(31:42):
all like you name it. So like shiftinggears here and going, all
right, we're the ones that arelistening is how can we like, we'll call
this a big milestone. Maybethis will be a big milestone
moment and making history here is like,how can steel detailers and other sub
trades and everything,but how can we start working together in

(32:02):
a better way, more proactive way toensure that we don't
are littered with what, 134? What wasthat magic number you
said? But like a lot ofart, can we eliminate that to a point?
We're always going to have RFI's, I getit, but can we do it
better? I know there are some firms and Ithink where I work, we have

(32:23):
offered this to some of ourclients also. We will look over your
drawings before you submita forbid. So you can have a
detail or look over them and it wouldn'teven, yeah, there would be
a cost associated with it.But, you know, would a thousand dollars
for somebody to review allthat from a different lens
to look over your drawings and save 60RFI's. Would it be worth

(32:49):
that thousand dollars to paya steel detailing company to look over
your drawings? Right.Whether you've got the bid or
not to, you know, fabricate and do it,but just as, you know, as
a, you know, upfront costs,we'll take a look at it. We'll critique
it. And yeah, even if theydon't end up with the job
because it went to somebody else, maybethey're not the lowest
bidder, but they could still bethe ones that reviewed the drawings

(33:10):
before bid. Right. And like,as far as tools, what are you
guys using? Just steel detail. Like Iknow it's Revit and Tecca. We use SDS2.
It's made by Allplan.It's a 3D modeling software that has
connections designed, built in. It's areally good program,
but I know a lot of people that are usingTecla structures. Not

(33:33):
many people I know use Revityet. They use advanced steel, which Revit
is slowly, it looks like they're slowlyimporting into Revit.
So I think advanced steel might go awayand then just detailing done inside
Revit. And then there'salso programs like BoCAD and there's a
new one called HiCAD, newto the States called HiCAD.

(33:55):
And then there are still some detailersthat are using 2D basic auto
CAD. Right. No, okay. Yeah.Because we were way back in high school
when I was playing, I gotto do a little work program.
It was with Tecla and I was playing and Idrew a kind of thing. It
took me all day to draw,like something that would probably take
you like a minute to do andeverything. But it was fun.

(34:15):
It was, and like even back in highschool, like I was using architectural
desktop people, I'm datingmyself. People can do the math and kind
of figure out how old I am.But yeah, it was neat kind of
doing that world. But I always didbelieve in 3D, like in my early days,
again, even drafting nine,I was kind of playing with a 3D auto CAD
doing it. And thenarchitectural desktop, I think I got my

(34:36):
hands on grade 10 and grade 11. Andthat's what I did all during
school while everyone was justlearning simple 2D. And I was already
going forward with that because it'sjust, it is so cool to,
the way I explain it to my clients when Iwas doing my own little
practice back in the day. Andit's like, you benefit from the pretty
pictures, but I appreciate thecoordination. And that's

(34:57):
exactly what it would allow you to do andpush forward in with
that. And yeah, my experienceworking with the steel detailers is yeah,
you guys would give us a.ifc file. We would import
that to Revit, go for coffee, because ittook like good 45 minutes or
something just to open up thefile and convert it. But it was so cool
because we would drop whenwe did, when we got our steel

(35:17):
shop drawings, we would always request,can we get an ifc file or
Revit file, whatever you couldprovide. We got it. We drop it in there.
And then, you know, I'dbe at the end of the day,
the structural engineers reviewing thatshop drawing, but I
would review it in terms ofthe collisions and the conflicts with
mechanical electrical. And wewould, you know, we would just
take a section box and Revit andbasically do these sections every two

(35:39):
feet and just going good,good, good. Oh, shoot, this beam's
popping through. Take a screenshot andcoordinate and that. It was,
it worked. But the question is, and it'skind of what you're
alluding to is could we start atthe beginning of the process? We work
during the design stage andare you doing that right now?
There are some, some detailers areworking straight with
engineers. And there is, you know,if an engineer is using Revit, they can

(36:05):
export their model and Ithink most of the 3D softwares
can bring in that model. It might have aconversion to it, but I can
bring in a Revit model intoSDS2. Yeah. The problem is I can build
the model faster thanI can check them off
because we have found that a lot of timesthe model's done, but

(36:27):
then all of these fielddimensions came in, but we don't have
time to fix the model.Just change the 2D drawing.
Right. Right. Now you're sending me aninaccurate model or we get
a model and they're like,well, here's the model, but don't use it
to scale anything off. AndI'm like, then why even give me
the model? Right. And that's right. AndI've, I found that with
like, again, with our youngerarchitects, I've talked about it in the

(36:49):
previous is like, they justdon't want a dimension stuff.
And it's like, guys, like it is what itis. If it's a horrible
dimension, well, that's what they'regoing to build it as. So at that point,
when you dimension thisstuff, take a second and scale it
back, you know, and it would always, Ialways, my personal
experience would be is, you know,do your grid lines, get your grid lines,
bang on to the exactdimensions you want, nice and clean,

(37:12):
looking good, drawing your walls,everything else is going to fall in
pretty good. And then startparrying down to the next thing is all
the interior walls andall that, and then start,
you know, snapping them too. And then weget to that final level
detail where we are calling outthose details and those parapet details
and all those, you know,all those little things and
taking account because it is what it is.Like you just can't get away

(37:33):
with it. So can we make thosedimensions clean? Let's do it. And
sometimes like architectural wise, wecould use a little more
dimensions. Like if you have a canopythat has polycarbonate
panels on top of it, I don't knowhow thick those are, but you're
dimensioning to the top of thatpolycarbonate panel. Well,
how far is it from the top of that paneldown to the still that I

(37:54):
need? Because, right. And eventhe engineer is telling me it is there
is, you know, the one big issue I thinkwe need to get rid of is
C structural and C architecture. Becauseusually when you see that,
neither one of them have theanswer. We had a, you're touching the
nerve on this one because wehad a policy in our office that

(38:16):
was very much about that. We didn't sayC, we said refer in that, but
a lot of it was, it was such adangerous word. And one of the colleagues
and the partners of thefirm, we would walk into the
meeting and that's exactly what the firstthing we said. There is
none of that. There is no C,there is no refer because if the
structural engineer calledup this and said refer to

(38:37):
architectural, well architectural missedit, it's a hundred percent
extra. We can't do anythingabout it when it came to the contractor.
But if we, if structuraljust said, you know, beam or
architects say the architect said, youknow, you know, you know,
structural beam or architecturalbeam or something, at least then that
something accounted for. So thecontractor couldn't say

(38:59):
it was like, agree with that, disagree?Like, is that kind of how
you're hoping to see it?In the architectural runs, if they, if
they point in and saystructural beam, C structural,
that's fine. I don't have a problem withthat. But like on,
sometimes you get C architecturalfor dimensions, but then the dimensions
aren't on the architectural.So now I have no dimensions.

(39:20):
Or another big thing we see is grid linesshown on one plan, but then
every plan past that there'sno grid lines. Oh, that's odd. Yeah. You
should always, yeah, it'snot that hard to copy the
grid lines to the next plan. Well, andthis rabbit too, like, and, you know, and
given one neat thing,like, because we had like, if I found
when I was doing kind of like high risesor like multi-family,

(39:43):
right? Because you had your parkade gridlines basically. And then
you had your first floor andthen you had, you know, you know, floors
up to one to six, or depending on howhigh you were going to
go with the wood frame and that. And likethe grid lines, I would show
them on that first floor aswell. And you could do that rabbit,
because you could pull the 3dextents and kind of bring it up
there because it was nicest to see on thefirst floor where the grid

(40:06):
lines were basically levelone and then the parkade and then level
two at that point doesn'tmatter because in technically
when you've been building it, you'vealready got level one built and then
level two is all aboutthat. And, and you're right. Like, why
not show it? Even if they'regrayscale, why not bring it
onto the plans? Like I can get it on apretty good soapbox on the
issues I want to see change.This is what we're trying to do. I don't

(40:30):
want to be a reallynegative podcast. You know, I,
I love the industry, but there are somethings that I would like to
see change. And a lot of itis probably drawing wise, like, yeah,
like, and we don't see thisarchitecturally, but
structurally we get a lot of sectionseven on S 3.2 similar.

(40:51):
What's similar? Like you go to itand like, well, where seven was cut, you
had a Joyce. There's nojoystick in this section.
Yeah. There's nothing similar here, butyet I'm supposed to go
through and be able to figure outwhat you meant by similar. Is it the
least resistant? What do youthink? What do you think it is?
For not to be mean, but it almost seemslike laziness. Yeah.

(41:14):
Path or is this, you know, but, and weget that. And then sometimes
on sections, it's like referto this other section for the rest of the
info, which isn't that badif it's one. But like I have
on a job where I have referred to sectionD refer to section A refer to C on another sheet and refer
to F on another sheet. I have a picturewith no information on it

(41:38):
except for refer to these fourdifferent sections. Right. So I guess the
message for everyone that'slistening to this right now is
is just do your due diligence, cut itthrough, invest the time,
look it back and double checkyour work. Is this actually a similar
one? Is it, it doesn't have anything majorly different. Like yousaid, it's well the beam or the column or

(42:01):
whatever the case is,maybe it is different. And
unfortunately, you just got to drawanother detail. Yeah. And
it's like, it's bad, not bad,but you know, sometimes when you draw
that detail, yeah, ittakes a little more time. But
for us as still detailers, I always lookat it from if it takes me 30 minutes to do it in the
office, it's saving four hours in theshop. Yeah. Yeah. So from the

(42:30):
engineering and architecturalstandpoint, if it's taking you guys 30
minutes to do it, it couldsolve 15 RFIs. Yeah. And we did
the numbers. An average RFI was somethinglike 1000 bucks from an
architectural, you know what Imean? Because it's not just a simple
thing. And, and like you mentionedthe dimensions that again,
yeah, that's the thing. Like I was goingto kind of pop a question

(42:54):
from my mind. I thought,is there too many dimensions on a plan?
Is there a point whereyou're like, hold on. I know that
I asked for dimensions, but I'm sorry. Iopened up Pandora's box. And another
thing, architecturallywise, dimensionally, what are we
dimensioning to? Like I, you know, a lotof times I don't ever see
a dimension coming from a grid line. Some trying to tie a wall to a grid line, so I'm like, okay,

(43:15):
a wall to a grid line so I can find whereanother wall is
sometimes becomes a challenge.And then are we dimensioning to the
drywall? Are wedimensioning to the stud? Are you know,
we've had some drawings that say alldimensions are to the stud.
I'm like, oh, great. That's whereI believe all the dimensions should go
because the drywall is notgoing to be there when you're

(43:36):
building the wall. You're going to builda stud and then you're
going to slap the drywall on it.Exactly. Yeah. It's a
finished finish. Yeah.Work on other ones where it's to the
drywall and it's like, okay,now I have to do the math to
take off five H drywall on both sides tofind out that that's a
six inch stud. And you know,it's all part of my job, but it's also
something that everydetailer is going to complain about.

(43:57):
And that's again, like how can we helpthe architectural
community and all that kind ofstuff, especially someone new and they're
listening to it and you're right. And I,and it's tough because a lot of guys
haven't had, you know, guys,gals haven't had the hands-on
experience of building something, right?Like, thankfully, like myself, you know,
grade 11, you know, my summer I walkedout to a construction site

(44:18):
and said, I want to build,I want to frame you, whatever you can do.
And that's when like, itjust emphasized. So like,
when I'm drawing a wall, I visually buildthe wall in my mind and
it's great in that sense.And then I worked, and then in the
following summer before I went to school,I worked at a millwork plant. So I got
to, you know, really havethat passion. And I loved it.
I love being hands on and seeing thatbecause when we draw all
these, these millwork details,it's one thing that draw everything in

(44:41):
super, oh, that lookseasy. Well, the moment you go,
I'm going to physically build this. Andagain, I'm speaking from experience when
I renovated my home,you know, I built it, I mapped it out, I
estimate it, went andgot the materials and,
and then I started building it. And rightaway, you're just kind of
like scratching hair, you'regoing, what, where do I start? And that
kind of stuff. So there isa craft to it and seeing,
and when you have that attention todetail in that mind's eye,

(45:04):
like you said, when it comesto simple stuff like dimensions, you're
doing it at the right placebecause you're thinking how
the guy in the field is, how is he goingto deal with this? Yes. Like,
you know, I'm sure we've allheard draw for the dumbest person you can
think of. Right. And that's,that's what I was told when

(45:25):
I started. And I would draw it like that.And then my boss finally
came up to me and said,all right, think of somebody a little bit
smarter. Okay. Soand, you know, find that
happy medium, but being in the industryso long, like when I
started was just a firm,we didn't have a shop. So everything I
was told was gospel. This isjust how they do it. I don't

(45:46):
know why they do it this way. This is howthey do it. Then I had friends that went
into the fabricationside. So I would start asking questions.
And then my next job was with thefabricator. So I was,
I'd go out in the shop and I would seehow they're doing. So the
way I started detailing iscompletely different than the way I
detail now, because I havethe real world experience of
being out there, having a shop form andcome into my office and

(46:09):
chew me out because I've mademistake. And I'm just sitting there
going, uh, like I'm completely fabricasked and I don't know
what to say back. And he just walks offand I'm like, and then what
happened? I'm like, I don'tknow. Like, and, but found out what was
wrong. And in my head, I'mnever making that mistake again.
Like, I don't want to be hollered at. Ohyeah. And that's, and

(46:33):
you're right. Yeah. Same thing.There's what I've made mistakes and I,
I've got defining moments, my brain,they're all categorized
in that sense. And yeah, you look backand you're like, I'm never going to do
that again. And that'sgood. You know what I mean? Like I saw
again, that construction job that Iworked on and the framing
and their handbook basically said, youknow, it was, I don't
remember anything about the handbook,but the last page was just very

(46:55):
intrigued. It was a picture of one ofthe, I guess the president up
on the stage. And the theme was you'reallowed to make one mistake,
you know, we're all going tomake mistakes. Just don't do it again.
And that was kind of the attitude for,and that's, you know,
clearly it's resonated with you there,Adam. And, and, um, you know,
not going to do the same. Andvice versa. Like we had a couple extras
on jobs and I was like, I'mnever going to do this again.

(47:15):
Or like, like I told you about the extralayer of all the fire spray and
everything. We had astrap. So we just doubled up our studs
even bigger, right? Cause itwas just, we never wanted to see
it again. It's a, it's a shame that ithappened, but we're human. We make
mistakes. It's what youdo with the mistakes afterwards. Is it
really defines kind ofgoing forward? Yes. Like I walk
into buildings, I look up, that's justme. I look at the still when

(47:39):
I go in a building. Yeah. AndI look at stuff and I go, Oh, I wouldn't
have done it that way. Oh,they shouldn't have done it that
way. But it worked. It's there. It'ssafe. You know, yeah, that
well looks horrible. Did theyget enough penetration? You know, that's
what matters. We all worktogether. It for, it takes

(48:04):
a team to build a project. So all the wayfrom the owner to the
janitor sweep in the floor when thejob is done, it, nobody bringing anything
extra value than anybodyelse to a job. You know,
I'm going to tell you, if you read myLinkedIn post, my job's the most
important one out ofeverybody. But the architect's going to

(48:25):
say that the engineer is going to saythat we're all going
to say that we are more important thanthe other person, but in reality, we're
not, you know? Yeah,it's still detailers. We have to read all
kinds of drawings of elevator, HVAC,architectural, you know,
all of them, the full spectrum, but weare coordinated. Yeah.

(48:46):
The architect and engineercoordinate and they get all the stuff.
But then when it comes down to thatdetailed little part of
it, it's in the name. We're stilldetailers. It's the detail part of it. We
have to make sure allthe bolts are in the right place.
Everything fits through the joist.Everything, does that beam need
a big hole cut in? And if we cut a holein it, what do we need to do
to make that beam where it'snot going to collapse and we put weight

(49:06):
on it? That is, that wasgoing to be an RFI that we're
going to send off because I can tell youthat what it needs to be, but I can't
prove that's what itneeds to be. After a while, you can look
at a job and be like, well,that beam connection is not
going to work because you've just seenthousands and thousands of
connections. So when I seesomething that doesn't work, I'm going to

(49:28):
RFI or something doesn'tmatch. I'm going to RFI it.
And a lot of it is the eyeball test. Ifyou go into a building and
you see something that justlooks bad, you think it's bad, but it
could look good and still be bad, but itpasses that eyeball test.
Right. And it's a pass. Yeah. And withthe RFIs and going back a

(49:50):
step when you talked about,you were working with structural
engineers and architectsearly on and before kind of
compiling. Have you seen those? I don'tknow if those jobs
have matured at this pointwhere you can go back and be like, hey,
we only got a third ofthe RFIs or we got one
RFI. You got a kind of a track record onthose examples, how it

(50:12):
didn't work out better.When I was working at the engineering
firm, we also had adetailing firm. So we weren't always
working on that engineer's drawings. Butwhen we did work on their
drawings, we had no RFIsbecause we could just walk down the hall
and go, hey, what'dyou really mean by this?
Yeah. And I still have friends that workthere. And when I do see
one of their jobs come across,I skipped the RFI process. I call my

(50:37):
friend who drew thedrawings and I'm like, hey,
what'd you really mean by this? And thenI sent an RFI app or an
email out saying, hey,I spoke with this person at this firm and
this is what we just cameup with. That is going to be,
in my opinion, the key to getting rid ofRFIs is communication. Let
me speak to who is in chargeof the not in charge of the job, but who

(51:00):
did the drawings? Letme talk to that person.
Yeah. Especially like you said, if youcan get it early,
early on before it becomes,you know, a contract, because that's the
thing when it becomes acontract. And if you have to
go through that system on them, becausethat's why the RFIs trigger.
We can get around the gatekeeping. Soit's not, I call the GC and I go, hey,
can I call the engineer? And some will belike, yeah, go right

(51:23):
ahead. Some will be like, no,everything has to go through us. I've
worked on one job where the engineercalled me, skipped the
GC. The engineers directly called me andwas like, can we talk about
these things? And I'm like,I would be happy to. And that engineer,
like if somebody was to askme about her, I would tell him
one of the best engineers I've everworked with. Once we got rid, kind of

(51:44):
kicked the GC out of thepicture a little bit, everything just
went so smooth and the GC wasn't aproblem. It was just,
we took out that layer so wecould get this done quicker.
Yeah. Yeah. I worked with one structural,it was very, didn't like, you know,
they would, the contractor position inRFI is basically where it's
coming from you in that case.And they were just very, you know, it's

(52:06):
on the drawings, it's onthe drawings, very stubborn
about it. It was frustrating. And it'sjust like, just give them a
call and find out. And then theyended up doing the call and they got
everything resolved overthat call. And I was like, oh,
great. That's awesome. Right. And thenthat saves everyone
time. It saves me as the CRP,the one I have to deal with RFI's, but it
has nothing to do withme, but it's going between,
I'm the middle man trying again, thatgatekeeper to control it and

(52:26):
coordinate it. And it's justanother thing if we can just kind of
eliminate and work together incommunications key, you got it.
Yeah. I have a friend that every job thathe does, that his company
does, they go through thedrawings, maybe a week going through the
drawings, mark them all up.And then they contact their
customers like, can we have a videomeeting with you, the engineer, the

(52:49):
architect? Let's just geteverybody in here and we're going to go
over what we do. They use Bluebeam towhere they can show it
everywhere. And he can, all right, sohere's our question. And then he will
type it so they can seewhat he's saying. Like, so everybody can
see his responses. Andthen he forwards that mark the
drawing out to everybody. So everybodyhas a copy of it. And he's like, it

(53:10):
solves so many problemsjust being able to do that. Right. So
you're, yeah, exactly. You're screensharing, you're doing
your stuff, you're showing the challengesand the frustrations and
where this needs to be resolved.Yeah. Like the technology we have
nowadays, there's so much we can do withjust screen sharing.

(53:31):
When I make an RFI, I don't redraweverything. I use Bluebeam, I clip the
part I need so I canjust mark it up. So I go, this is your
drawing. You can see what you did andwhat I'm questioning.
Yeah. Yeah. That's a big thing. And Ithink even the way we ask RFIs
need to be done in a specificway. Like if I see your connection is not

(53:55):
going to work, I don't wantto just send an RFI that says,
hey, this connection doesn't work. Pleaseadvise. I want to send
a question that says,your connection doesn't work for this
reason. How about we do itthis way? That way you can look at
what I think and go, oh yeah, that willwork. Let's follow your way.
Because I know what's goingto work in the field. I know it's going
to work in the shop because I've dealtwith all that. And I

(54:17):
can, you know, that's part of, onceagain, the still detailer's
job is to know that stuff. Soif I can push a solution that will work
and everybody's happywith, why wouldn't I do that?
Yeah. I appreciate that. Like that'sexactly what we'd say to the GCs. Like
don't just come to aproblem, you know, like come, you know,
bring a couple of ideas and we'llbrainstorm, we'll work

(54:39):
together. Maybe we're on site, we'll walkaround and, you know, kind
of stand around and stare.But we'll come up to the resolution and
you're right. Again, it'sall about being proactive.
The more proactive that you can be withthis stuff, the better
it's going to flow, the betterthe communication is going to go. And
then at the end of the day, we can allcelebrate because we
did an amazing project together. Yeah.And you know, the thing
with doing it that way is I askthe question that way, I go ahead and do

(55:02):
what I said that I wanted todo and I'm continuing to work.
So when I get the answer back, it says,yes, that's great. I don't
have to jump back to that partto finish it. I already did it. Yeah. And
because one, I did itthat way so I could actually
get a snapshot of my model and send thatso I can go, Hey, look, I
want to do it this way. That way,you can see all the beams, not in a 2D
version. I'm going to send you, we cansend a 3D RFI out of

(55:25):
our software, the SDS2 software. I don'tknow if the other ones
do this. They probably do,but to where I can send it to you and you
can spin it around andyou can see everything in it
in a 3D picture instead of just going,okay, I'm looking at
your 2D flat image. No,spin it around. Let's see what it all
looks like. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. No,absolutely. I think you
nailed it. And that's, you know, ahundred percent. I think this is just,

(55:49):
this has been awesome. Andyou know, we're coming up to the hour
here, Adam in that sense. Butyeah, key takeaways, I think
dimensions, communication, what are yourfinal T-ways? What's your
soapbox moment here? You got30 seconds. What does the industry need
to hear to be better atthis? Well, if you look at any of
my LinkedIn posts, I have a hashtag onthere that says work better together.

(56:10):
That's pretty much it.We all got to work better together. I'm
still going to complainabout you. You're going to
complain about me, but we just need towork better together.
Hashtag work better together.That's awesome. That is really cool. You
know, let's see an uptickof and people tagging that
because yeah, I think that's absolutely Ilove it. Oh, thank you so

(56:31):
much for being on the show.Where can we find you? I don't like you
mentioned LinkedIn, but where can we,where can we find you? It's probably
going to be my biggest one. Like,that's where I share everything. I'm on
Facebook, but it's, I don'tever get on Facebook. I don't
use Instagram, TikTok, any of that stuff.I like to share the stuff
on LinkedIn and I have beencontemplating YouTube to share how to

(56:53):
videos, but I haven'tdelved into that yet. So if you
want to get ahold of me, LinkedIn wouldbe the best. It's just my name. You
should see a pictureof me. Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, I
know. I yeah, I'll post iton the site and post it on
the description and all that stuff. Sowe'll definitely check it
out. And I'm expecting tosee that YouTube channel request and

(57:14):
check it out in the future. But no,again, thank you so much
for being on this. This was awesome. Thisdefinitely gave, you know,
even gave me some insightof kind of the whole process and kind of
what happens behind thescenes. And I'm sure for
listeners that this really opened uptheir eyes of just how do you detailing
works and the challengesthat face and what we see at site. And
again, let's try and start eliminatingthis at the beginning.
If we can get this all wrapped up, we'renot going to have

(57:37):
surprises on the site because wedon't ever want to be surprised in that
sense. Right. And I hopethat this informs people a
little bit more of what still detailingis kind of dying trade
because, well, nobody knows whatit is and it's not taught in schools. So
if somebody sees it and is like, hey,that sounds like it's fun.
Contact me. I have a lot of networkingthat if you want to be a detailer, I can

(58:00):
probably help you outbecoming one. That's awesome. No, I
appreciate it. And appreciatehow you're giving back to the
community in a sense. And absolutely.100%. So yeah. Well, that
kind of wraps up this show here.Architects keep designing and contractors
keep making those blueprints reality.We'll see on the next one.