November 7, 2020 • 46 mins
People organizer and podcaster Starr Mallory guests this episode. Listen as she shares with guest-host AC Bergen how a tragic accident shaped and molded the person she is today. Starr also shares her experience with family estrangement and personal growth.
Echoes of Resilience Podcast https://anchor.fm/starr-mallory
https://buymeacoffee.com/wtbbpod
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
The following is a King Fisher Media Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:08):
You are listening to When the Bell Breaks.
I'm your host, AC Fisher.
With me today is Star Mallory.
Star has described herself as asingle mother of two young
adults and a people manager.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, Star?
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Absolutely.
Hello.
Thanks for having me.
I am a mother of two youngadults.
They will be 25 and 21 inAugust.
Fun fact that I normally like toshare about them is that they
have the same birthday, eventhough they are four years
apart.
Wow.
Yeah.
(00:45):
They they actually love it.
So most kids wouldn't like it,but they do.
But that's how close they are.
They're so close.
And I'm also a people manager.
I am a manager of about 50agents in a call center here.
And we are in the energyefficiency field.
So I help customers calling inwith questions about their
(01:08):
rebates and things like that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
You're kind of a big deal then.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Kind of.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
No, that's actually like really exciting.
I I guess when you raise twokids by yourself, it sort of
probably uniquely equips you todeal with, you know, a call
center full of people.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
Almost the same amount of chaos, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Yes.
Sometimes more.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
And I I see here that also you're developing a
podcast.
Did you want to share anythingabout that or is that still
under wraps?
SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
Sure.
I am in the beginning stages.
I actually recorded my firstepisode yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
Congratulations.
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
Thank you.
It went really well.
I'm super excited.
The name of the podcast isEchoes of Resilience.
And it talks, um, we talk aboutor two women who have faced some
difficult life challenges andbounce back.
We talk about uh resources thatthey use to help them get
(02:14):
through what they were goingthrough, the lessons that they
learn.
Uh, we talk about self-care andwhat resilience means to them.
So I'm super excited.
It's my baby.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Yeah, this sounds like it's a bit of a passion
project for you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (02:30):
No, that that's really exciting.
I mean, like there's not enoughpeople, I don't think, talking
about these sorts of things.
And I I I always reallyappreciate hearing about people
who are sort of, you know, ifthey're not finding adequate
resources or not quite the rightones, when they become a
resource themselves.
It's just it's it's really good.
Thank you for jumping into thefray and and providing something
(02:52):
like that for people.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Okay, well, now that we've talked you up, what what
brings you to when the bowbreaks today?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
So I saw a call for people who are estranged from
their families, and I'veanswered.
So it is pretty much an ongoingthing for me, or it has been
over the years.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Where my family has either either I have, you know,
cut ties with them and walkedaway and just didn't have any
dealings whatsoever.
It's been a few times off and onthroughout my life.
I guess to start out with, I amadopted.
I'm also adopted in the family.
(03:40):
So my great uncle adopted myselfand my little brother.
He is the uncle of my mother.
Um, he and his wife adopted us.
Wow.
Um, they've had me since dayone, basically since I came home
from the hospital.
And uh a little over a yearlater, my brother came and they
(04:05):
adopted him as well.
With them being, you know, thesame age as my um grandparents
would have been.
They had older children, my auntand uncle.
And so oftentimes those childrenwere left to uh help in the
(04:26):
raising of us, I guess.
SPEAKER_03 (04:28):
So they were like extra parents, you mean?
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Yes.
Yeah.
So they had um authoritativeinfluence over over us.
And let's see, probably for mostof my childhood growing up, they
didn't have a lot to do with us.
They were just kind of around.
(04:52):
Particularly one of the siblingsthat would ultimately be
responsible for a lot of raisingus was in another state living
with her family.
Um, she had started a family andmoved to another state.
SPEAKER_03 (05:07):
Just sorry, I I hate to interrupt you.
So she was responsible for youwhile she was out of state or
before she went out of state?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
She was not.
So she was not in the picture alot of time as far as me growing
up till I got to be probablypreteen.
SPEAKER_03 (05:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Um, 11 or 12.
She was in and out, like backand forth.
I did spend some time with herin another state.
I can remember that.
But when I was 11 or 12, one ofour siblings was in an accident.
Um, it was in the wintertime,and she was hitchhiking and
(05:50):
jumped in a vehicle that was an18-wheeler, a semi.
And that driver fell asleep atthe wheel and ended up colliding
with another semi.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
That left my sister, a quadruple.
She was paralyzed from her neckdown.
And so at the time, we wereliving in a completely different
city from where she was.
It was about an hour and a halfaway.
And our whole life was uprooted.
(06:26):
And well, one of the adultsdecided that we were going to
move to um a capital city wherethere would be more help for my
sister, who was a quadriplegic.
And that's where the othersister that became the
authoritative figure kind oftook over.
So she's like, hey, we're movinghere, they have better
hospitals.
So the family did move for sometime.
(06:47):
It was just myself and mybrother with her.
And I don't know, you know, whather gripe was with my mother to
this day, but she hated mymother.
Um, and so she made sure thatshe reminded us of that hate
that she had for our mother, um,and just would say very awful
(07:08):
things to us that as an adultthinking back, I'm like, oh, how
could you ever, you know, saythose things to a child?
SPEAKER_03 (07:17):
Um that's a lot for a kid of you know 11-ish to be
dealing with.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
It was it was a lot, and I even just with like the
whole accident and the mood, ourworld was being just turned
upside down.
SPEAKER_01 (07:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:36):
And so yeah, I I think a lot about you know why
she was the way she was, andjust knowing her.
She's very controlling, and shewants to control things, and she
wants them to go her way.
And I think she wanted to likecontrol my spirit or like break
(07:57):
my spirit, and I think that thatmade her dislike me even more
that she couldn't do that.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, I could see that being frustrating for that
type of personality.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (08:08):
They like victims, they don't like people that can
hold their ground, do they?
SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
No, not at all.
And the more I would resist, Ithink the more she just felt
like, uh, you know, what am Igonna do with you?
So I grew up in, you know, inthat house, and I pretty much
was left to kind of take care ofmy sister that was a
quadriplegic.
I did a lot of things for her.
(08:33):
They ended up having a huge homebuilt, and my room was
strategically put across thehall from hers.
So I was pretty much up at herbeck and call whenever she would
call me in the middle of thenight, one, two, three o'clock
in the morning.
SPEAKER_03 (08:50):
And what age range are we kind of talking about
here during this time?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Probably about 16.
I was about 16, 17.
SPEAKER_03 (08:59):
That that's still kind of young to be like a
full-time, essentially on-callnurse for somebody who's
physically challenged.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
Yeah.
Um, you know, and it's it was mysister and I loved her, and it
was frustrating at times.
And like I said, on top ofeverything else that I was
dealing with, it was a lie.
It really was.
But it was my life, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
Like, did it ever occur to you that this was not
like the normal order of things,or was this just kind of
business as usual for you?
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Pretty much everything about my childhood I
knew was not normal.
I knew that, you know, thisisn't the way that I'm supposed
to be talked to, this isn't theway that I'm supposed to be
treated, this isn't normal.
SPEAKER_03 (09:48):
So that must have made it all that much heavier
then.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
Yes.
I didn't know the word for it,but I knew that it was
dysfunctional.
I didn't know that that was theword, but I knew that it wasn't
healthy.
And also that energy kind ofgoes against everything that is
me.
I am rebellious, and I am free,and I am, you know, they they
(10:15):
always called me weird growingup, and I always took that in
such a negative way becausethat's how they put it out
there, you know.
They would always address it asa negative thing.
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
It's kind of interesting though, because I
mean, right from the tone ofyour voice when you said hello
today, I got this strong sensethat you were a very determined
person.
And like just the little bit youshare with your story so far,
it's really becoming clear whythat is the case.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
I definitely think that a lot of my child rearing
is why my personality is the waythat it is, for sure.
I've I've learned a lot oflessons from my uh quote unquote
parental relationships, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
No, I I I get that.
I I I come out of kind of like aless than ideal environment
myself.
So I know how like thesenegatives can be translated into
strong positives when dealingwith my own kids.
It sounds like you know, that'sbeen your experience as well,
yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:19):
Oh, yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
So I um how we got to the point where I just, you
know, felt like enough isenough.
Well, before that, I so thesister that I hoped to take care
of actually she had gotten asettlement from her accident.
And I will always be around andhearing the adults talk.
(11:46):
And I remember hearing my sistersay on several occasions, she
wanted my brother and I includedin on her will, and she wanted
us to be equal as all the otherbrothers and sisters, because my
parents who raised us never, Inever saw them as anything as my
parents, and they neverpresented me as anything but
their child.
(12:08):
So it was clear to them thatthey, you know, they loved me
and were raising me and mybrother as their children.
And for the most part, I thinkfor all the siblings, I I
believe that that's what they,you know, thought as well.
But the one particular siblingdidn't feel that that we should
be equal, even though we mybrother and I did most of the
(12:32):
taking care of my sister.
I mean, he had to help get herin and out of the van whenever
she wanted to go anywhere.
It was a big, long, drawn-outprocess.
And he had to put her on thefoyer lift and lift her up and
put her in the chair.
And, you know, we and I don'tthink our sister took all that
we did for her for granted.
I think she knew that that thatwas a heavy ask and that it was
(12:55):
a lot for teenagers to do, andthat she saw and recognized that
we did that.
And, you know, her stance wasthey should get equal as all the
siblings because they're asibling.
And I can remember hearing thissister, you know, rebut it and
she didn't like it and shedidn't want it.
(13:17):
And I heard her say one time, ifit were left up to me, they
wouldn't get anything.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
So I'm like, oh, okay.
So time goes on.
My sister, you know, I didn'tthink much of it because I
really didn't care, honestly.
My sister passed away, and shelived for quite some time.
They didn't think she would, butshe lived for quite a while, and
(13:45):
there was a blowout between oneof the siblings and the other
sister, and the other siblingkept saying, She changed the
will, she changed the will.
And so I'm like, What?
Okay, whatever, you know, timegoes on, comes time for the
money to come, and my brotherand I got one check for$2,000.
SPEAKER_03 (14:11):
And that was obviously not what you were
expecting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
I knew that there was more than$4,000 between the
two of us.
That should have been, you know,there she there was a
multimillion dollar lawsuit, andI knew that all the siblings
didn't get$2,000.
So I knew that it wasn't fair,and I knew that she changed the
(14:36):
will.
And I mean, though those wordsjust came back to my mind.
I took the money, I didn't fuss,I just, you know, I signed the
check and cashed it, and justthought, well, well, so be it,
you know.
I also never cried and was neveras hurt as I was that day.
(14:58):
Because all the years of mequestioning my identity and if
they love me, and do they haveto put up with me, that verified
and validated all the doubtsthat I had, but had tried to
squash in my mind all over theyears.
That brought it to life and itverified it for me.
(15:20):
And the message was, you're notone of us.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
Yeah, that's not about$2,000 at that point.
That's not at all losing yoursense of you know your valid
role in the family, right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:35):
That must have been incredibly hurtful for you.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
It was devastating and crushing because all my life
I've been, I don't belong, theydon't want me.
And then I would come back andbe like, but they have to, they
raised you, they it they choseyou, you know, they picked you,
they have to love you, you know.
And for that to happen, it wasjust a slap in the face, and it
(16:00):
was like, see, told you so.
They don't like you, they don'tlove you.
Um, and also what was also umhurtful was that none of the
other siblings stood up.
None of them said, Hey, this iswrong, we're gonna make it
right.
None of them said, You can't dothis, we won't allow this.
Right, you know, so you know,while they weren't responsible
(16:23):
for changing the will, I feltlike they played a part in that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:28):
Through very inaction, you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes.
And my dad was still alive atthe time, and I kind of, you
know, also blamed him, eventhough this sibling is very
controlling, almostmanipulative, controlling.
She has that type of spirit.
And so she has done that toeverybody around her.
(16:52):
And if you don't play her gameher way, then it's hell to pay.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
So the path of least resistance is just to follow
whatever nastiness that she'sweaving.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Yes.
Yeah.
So that was the first part of meever, you know, just totally
alienating the family and beinglike, you know, I'm too hurt.
I don't want to deal with this.
Um we never really communicatedgrowing up.
So what's the point of me tryingto talk?
I already know it's gonna be,you know, it's gonna fall on
(17:25):
deaf ears.
So I just I I kind of distancedmyself for many years.
I did.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
So how how old are you when this first wave of
estrangement starts?
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
Probably about 25 or 26.
SPEAKER_01 (17:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
And I so there was just no communication.
Um, of course, she would saynasty things about me to other
people for it to get back to me.
And my brother also cut tieswith them at that time.
So I didn't speak to them oranything for a while.
And then I think I kept goingback and forth because I kept
(18:08):
feeling guilty because I feellike I owe them something
because they raised me.
And so I I would go back and belike, okay, forgive and forget,
and let's just move on.
And I kept feeling like reachout to your dad.
I just kept having a thought ofreach out to my dad and take him
(18:29):
to breakfast and blah, blah,blah.
But I kept putting it off.
And we still weren't speaking,and I kept putting it off, and
then one day they called andsaid that my dad had had a
stroke.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
And I was so devastated because I knew that
like the weeks coming up to himhaving the stroke were when it
was really strong in my mind toreach out to my dad.
And so I was at the hospital, soof course I was around more, and
it to them, you know, it's kindof like, okay, well, she's she
snapped out of it and she'sback, you know, coming around or
(19:04):
whatever.
And my dad ended up passing awayfrom the stroke, but I did get
to tell him like everything thatI wanted to tell him, which is
why I kept thinking, like, takehim to lunch or to breakfast and
you know, tell him you'rethankful, and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, you know,because we weren't like feeling
type of people, like we don'tshare our feelings, and you
(19:27):
know, my dad was a dude's dude,and I just was like, oh, he's
not mushy, and you know.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Is that a big part of what held you back from
expressing yourself then?
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yes.
Yeah.
And is not comfortable.
And I was like, I don't want itto be awkward.
And so I just kept putting itoff, and I didn't really realize
that.
Honestly, I think that was likemy last chance to tell him how I
felt.
So when he was in the hospital,he was coherent, and I did get a
chance to tell him that I heldhis hand.
(20:00):
And I told him that I thank himfor raising me and for choosing
me, and that he was the best andthe strongest and the bravest
man I had ever met, and the onlyman that I ever fully trusted in
my life.
And I just got to just speak allthese beautiful things to my
dad.
And he couldn't speak back, butmy dad wasn't mushy, remember.
(20:24):
And when I got done, a teardropped down his eye.
And he shook his head, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
What a beautiful moment.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
And so I knew that he had heard everything that I
needed him to hear from me.
Yeah.
And I also knew that probablynone of his other children had
that opportunity to have thatmoment because I knew that it
was on my heart for a reason.
You know, he needed to hearthat.
And he died a little a coupledays after that, he passed away.
(20:59):
And there was still, you know, alittle the the negative energy
and toxicity where there endedup being a blowout with my
sister about a cell phone.
And it was because I think shefelt like she was about to get
exposed about something.
So she just flipped out.
(21:20):
And I said, that's it, I don'thave to take this.
So again, I kind of kept myselfaway from the family for, and I
mean, and that didn't take anytime, honestly.
Maybe about two years.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
And and then they opened a restaurant, and my
sister kept messaging me, andshe's like, I need you to be my
sister.
Will you please be my sister?
And I the soft spot in my heartagain.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Sucker.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
Yes.
Yes.
I started coming around.
I started helping out at therestaurant.
I started helping out withsocial media.
It's, you know, oh, it's in mydad's name because it was it's a
barbecue restaurant, and heloved to barbecue, and it was
his recipe.
And oh, we're doing this fordaddy.
And once again, the negativityand the toxicity presented
(22:16):
itself again.
And in this case, you know, butmy son was graduating, and they
were, yeah, we're gonna bethere, and we love him, and
blah, blah, blah.
Well, the day comes and nobody'sthere for his graduation.
And I'm like, you know, I'mtired of being let down.
(22:37):
My son didn't deserve this.
You know, they basically liedand said they were coming and
didn't come, and then everybodyhad an excuse.
SPEAKER_03 (22:46):
But now they're messing with your kids, that's a
whole different emotional realm,isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Mess with me is one thing, butthe kids is something completely
different.
So I cut off ties again, andthat was two years ago now.
And it's so crazy because it'sjust the one person in the
(23:14):
family, but I have to cut tieswith everybody because they're
all so I don't want to saybrainwashed, but they're just so
like in tune with the the orderof how she thinks things should
go.
Yeah.
That it's like I have to have arelationship with her if I have
(23:36):
a relationship with anybodyelse.
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
And that sounds like a bad package deal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
Yes.
So I just felt like if you don'tlike me and you, you know, you
just can't stand me, why wouldyou want me to keep coming
around?
And like when I'm not, you know,really on speaking terms with
them, they'll reach out andthey'll haul and they'll have my
cousin call, and they're, youknow, oh, we miss you and we
(24:03):
want to know how the kids are.
But it's like, I don't know.
I know in my culture andcommunity, we are kind of taught
to like put up with everythingbecause it's family.
Oh, it's family, it's family.
Oh, it that's family.
And it's like, where was theirfamily mentality or mindset when
they were doing all the thingsthat they were doing to me?
SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
And and that's a that's a fair question, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (24:31):
It's and it's always, you know, I always ask
because I'm like, well, youexpect me to accept certain
behaviors because I'm family.
Do you not accept them to not docertain things to me because I'm
family, you know?
So I just decided that I don'twant to keep on that on that
(24:54):
merry-go-round of justnegativity and it's unhealthy.
SPEAKER_03 (25:01):
Yeah, well, it sounds like it's it's definitely
not good for you.
This doesn't sound like a caseof you've just got fragile
feelings and you need to, youknow, figure out your own end of
things entirely.
It sounds like I don't know, inmy opinion, you you did the only
thing you could do, which isprotect yourself and and your
kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
If you are experiencing estrangement from a
family member and would like tobe a guest, you can email us at
wtbbpodcast at gmail.com.
Your privacy is important to us.
Guests have the option to remainanonymous or use a pseudonym.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
So, like, you're obviously sitting on a lot of
like either unanswered orunanswerable questions as far as
your your family members areconcerned, like most especially
your sister, as far as hermotivations and whatnot.
Like in in the day-to-day, likehow do you how do you carry
that?
Like, what do you do?
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
Um, I think, and it might sound uh cliche, but I
just try to be the best personthat I can be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
Um, because like I know that she is she has a
sickness, and there's nothingthat I can do about that, but
what I can do is decide that I'mnot going to let her sickness
contaminate contaminate me.
Okay.
I can't change her, I can't makeher see the air of her ways and
(26:36):
her thinking, and you know, howcould you?
Because she's always going tohave justification for doing
what she has done because it'swhat makes her be able to sleep
at night, you know.
She's totally justified in doingeverything that she's done in
her mind.
SPEAKER_03 (26:56):
I've got a sister who's just like that.
So I feel your pain.
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
Yeah, it's like, you know, how do you live with
yourself?
How are you a decent humanbeing?
How can you look at yourself inthe mirror?
And it's like, oh, becausepeople like that make it okay in
their minds for what they'redoing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
From her perspective, she probably
doesn't even realize how nastyshe's actually being.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
No.
And it's a way of life, and youknow, I had my cousin kept
saying, Well, why do you expectany different?
And it and that pissed me off sobad.
Like it made me so mad.
And but I understand now whatshe meant.
She the sister is like that witheverybody, like she doesn't like
(27:41):
anyone, she doesn't likeherself.
Like it wasn't a personal thing.
I think that's what my cousinwas trying to get me to see.
SPEAKER_03 (27:48):
So your cousin's not like shrugging her shoulders and
saying, Well, that's just her.
She's basically telling you setrealistic expectations.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
Okay.
Your cousin sounds like a smartcookie.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
Yeah.
She is.
She, I I value her opinion alllike, and we grew up together.
So she knows, like she grew upin that household.
So she knows, you know, how herit's her odd.
She knows how she is.
But I was just like, no, Idon't, I get to choose how the
relationships that I'm in, howthey're gonna go.
(28:22):
And if they're not going the waythat's healthy for me, then I
don't, I don't have to be inthat relationship, no matter who
you are, even if you are myfamily.
SPEAKER_03 (28:33):
Yeah.
Well, I I know somebody told meyears ago when when I was
dealing with family estrangementstuff and really not sure how to
navigate the emotions.
That they said, not everybodyyou lose is a loss.
Can you identify it all withthat statement?
SPEAKER_02 (28:50):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, because she really broughtno nothing positive, it was just
all negative energy.
And I mean, that's what I wantedto get away from, you know,
that's what I wanted to lose.
So I I definitely can agree withthat.
(29:13):
That not everybody you lose is aloss.
SPEAKER_03 (29:16):
When you think about your sister, what what comes up
emotionally?
Are you feeling the love there,or is there something more
complicated?
Like I'm always curious aboutthis end of things.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Honestly, I don't feel the love there.
I can never feel the love there.
The words are very powerful.
Um, I've I've heard people saythat you know verbal and
emotional abuse is worse thanphysical abuse because you know,
the bruises and the scars goaway.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
And with with the verbal and emotional, you
constantly have those words, youknow, ringing in your mind.
You have to constantly for me, Ihave to constantly unlearn
things that were poured into meas a child from an authoritative
(30:10):
figure, somebody who I should beable to trust and believe
everything that they say, whohas spent a great part of their
life sewing foul, vile wordsinto my heart about my mother,
against my mother, andultimately about and against
(30:32):
myself.
SPEAKER_03 (30:34):
No, it's almost like you get taught to like um abuse
yourself inside your own head.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yes, yeah.
I hated my mother.
I hated my mother because of allof the things she would say to
me about my mom.
She would tell me your motherdoesn't want you, she didn't
want you, nobody wants you.
You're not gonna be nothing inthis world.
(31:00):
And it's like, how could youknow, as an adult and even with
children, I would never tell mykids anything that I know would
bruise their little souls ortheir spirits or their egos.
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
No, that that's just a realm of nasty.
I I I can't even because I meanyou're a parent, I'm a parent.
Like we we've got kids, but evenif they weren't our kids, they
were like total stranger kids,even if they were nasty,
unbehaved kids.
Like I couldn't torture a childpsychologically like that.
My my my mind just not wiredthat way.
(31:39):
So yeah.
It's like when you when youthink back on your own
childhood, like it's gonna be afairly on-the-nose observation.
I mean, like, you know how wrongthat is.
You're obviously gonna have someresentments there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
But how do you cope with that in the day today?
Like when these things come up.
SPEAKER_02 (31:59):
So I I think for me, what's really important is
forgiveness for me.
Because the and I will tell youback to the the will changing of
the will, that took a lot for meto come back from.
(32:20):
It did.
It took a lot for me to say,okay, I'll trust you and I'll be
your sister again.
It took a lot for me to comeback from that because I was
betrayed to the highest level ofbetrayal that you know that I
could imagine.
And I literally had to forgiveher and just pray and be like,
(32:46):
you know what, I have to letthis go.
And I knew that I had to let itgo.
I had to let go of all the angerand the resentment for myself.
And to be 100% honest with you,once I let that go and forgave
everybody involved, I felt somuch better because uh there was
a time I couldn't not tell thatstory without crying.
(33:08):
And and I am not a superemotional person.
It takes a lot for me to come totears.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
And that thing hurt me so bad.
But I had to, when I I know thatwhen I let it go, telling that
story didn't have there wasn'tthe power in it anymore.
Once I forgave for that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
So, and and I really am at a point, and I'm I'm gonna
be totally transparent here.
Two years past this lastincident, there have been some
things said to other people, youknow, so that it comes back to
me that are nasty.
Nasty things said.
And um, so I'm I'm strugglingwith the forgiveness again
(33:55):
because you know, people thinkthat when you forgive somebody,
they think a couple differentthings.
When you forgive people, ohthat's it, you just forgive them
and they're forgiven.
No, sometimes it's a process,sometimes I have to forgive on a
layaway plan.
SPEAKER_03 (34:11):
Well, you guys like a daily decision, yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
And then people, you know, they also think that, oh,
when you forgive them, you haveto be friends with them again,
and that's absolutely not thecase.
I can forgive and I can forfeittoxicity, I can forgive you and
say, but I don't want to dealwith this anymore.
So I think kind of for me, I'mkind of trying to find balance
(34:39):
right now between forgiving andaccepting because it is even
though it wasn't ideal, it waswhat I knew.
It was my life.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:52):
So accepting that, you know, I'm not, it hurts me.
It does.
It hurts me that, you know, myother sibling is is with her,
and I really can't talk to thatother sibling because she's so
whenever I get on the phone withher, she wants to get this other
sister on the phone.
And I hate that.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
So you're not talking to your sister, you're
talking to your other sister'sagent, basically.
SPEAKER_02 (35:17):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's I don't want totalk to her, you know.
So if I can't call and talk toyou, then just you, then I won't
call.
So it is a balance because Iwill think, oh, I miss my one
sister, you know, I'll reach outto her daughter and ask how
she's doing and tell her that Iasked about her or whatever.
But it's kind of like abalancing act and trying to find
(35:41):
in myself, okay, how can I cometo a healthy, you know, medium
to where I'm just like, I don'twant to deal with this, all the
pain and the negativity thatcomes with that anymore, even
though I do, you know, I do missthem, but I feel like it's
what's best for my emotionalwell-being.
SPEAKER_03 (36:04):
And I don't know the stuff that like people who don't
deal directly with estrangementissues, I don't think they
understand like how complicatedfamily stuff can get.
Because I mean, it it's usuallya case of you're dealing with
one person who just absolutelyhas to go.
But they take so much otherstuff, like people with them, so
(36:26):
much other stuff, like not justrelationships, but
opportunities, your sense ofself that all goes out the door
with this nasty person.
SPEAKER_02 (36:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (36:36):
And yeah, yeah, it can be like really challenging
figuring out like just you know,how do I find me in all of this,
like the best me?
SPEAKER_02 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, because I struggle.
I do, I it's I think I feelguilty sometimes, and I like I
don't sit in that for a longtime, but I do kind of sometimes
feel like well, I owe them, youknow.
Yeah, well, they raise me, and II will feel like, well, that's
(37:06):
wrong for me.
But then I I go back to, butwhat about me?
Who is concerned for me?
Who thinks about me?
Who's trying to protect me?
And I know that that is nobody'sresponsibility but my own.
So I have to make some some hardchoices and decisions.
And I think my peace of mind ismore important than making them
(37:30):
feel good, because at the end ofthe day, that's what they want
me around for.
They don't want it to be anyfriction, or they don't want me
to show that there's friction,but they want to continue to
behave like they do.
SPEAKER_03 (37:44):
And they want you to be willing participant, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (37:48):
And and and nothing about me is is that is is just,
you know, you don't get to treatme any kind of way, no matter
who you are.
You're not allowed to tomistreat me and misuse me.
SPEAKER_03 (38:03):
Right.
So do you do you feel likeyou've gained more than you've
lost in all of this?
SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
Um, I do honestly feel like that's a good
question.
I do feel like I've gained morethan I've lost.
I really feel like everythingthat we go through is, you know,
for a reason.
And I've I've gotten a lot ofinsight and a lot of who I am,
(38:31):
and I've been able to, I guess,you know, it's kind of how I
cope too, is the knowledge thatI've been able to take my power
back.
As a child, you might have beenable to say all these terrible
things to me and treat mehowever, and I had to deal with
(38:52):
it and put up with it and shutup and do as you say.
But as an adult, I can make agood decision based off all
these years of experiences, andI can stand up for that little
girl who you told wouldn't beanything, who you said was
unwanted, who you said didn'thave a voice, and I can be all
(39:15):
those things, and you don't getthe pleasure of having me in
your life because you know what?
I am a pretty awesome person.
So, you know, I feel like it'syour loss, you know, that you
don't get to have all thisawesomeness in your life, yeah,
(39:35):
and you know, you just have togo be miserable.
So, yeah, I do.
I feel like I've gained muchmore, much more than I have
lost.
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
So, what's the next step for you as far as your role
in this family that isestranged?
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Um, I honestly don't know how to answer that.
For me, I just it's just Justbetter for me emotionally and
mentally to keep my distance andto just rest in the fact that,
you know, whatever consequencesthey have to deal with in
(40:16):
regards to any wrongdoing of me,they'll have to face that one
day.
I don't want anything bad tohappen to them, but you know,
there are consequences to youractions.
And I will say that, you know,the last time, you know, she
said she, they're sodisrespectful.
And I don't know, that kind ofpissed me off because I've
(40:37):
always been respectful of themand I've always treated the
siblings almost like they weremy parents.
So I gave a lot of respect, evenwhere it wasn't due to me at
times.
But I am, I'm totally fine withhaving peace in my life, in my
mind, and in my heart.
(40:58):
If, you know, which I highlydoubt, they were to reach out
and say, hey, I want to talk toyou.
I sincerely apologize and blah,blah, blah.
You know, I might move forward.
But as far as us having like thetraditional close family
relationship, like we didbefore, how you know, where I
(41:21):
was, because I was there like atall the family functions, I
would show up and I wouldparticipate.
And, you know, I was in chargeof getting at Thanksgiving of
getting all the names for wedid, we did uh Christmas
drawing.
So we pulled a name andeverybody was responsible.
So I was in charge of that.
I I think that that is that isover because I just refuse to
(41:42):
continue to put myself in asituation where I'm not honored,
where I'm not respected, andwhere I'm not valued.
SPEAKER_03 (41:53):
Right.
So if you could say something toyou know, the sister in question
and actually have her understandand accept and absorb it, what
would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Um It would be that I know we can't change what has
happened in the past.
Um, but I wish I knew who hurtyou and to you know, to make you
just do and say some of the meanand ugly, nasty things.
(42:34):
I wish I could understand youmore and where your anger and
hatred is coming from.
And I wish that you could knowthat it's misplaced.
Um, and I wish that you couldknow that had you cultivated the
relationship properly, we couldhave an amazing relationship.
(42:58):
And you could have not only anamazing sister, but an amazing
friend.
SPEAKER_03 (43:03):
That's yeah, that that that's powerful stuff,
Star.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
Thank you for asking me that question.
SPEAKER_03 (43:10):
It it's it's a question that's kind of you
know, it's it's close to homefor me.
Yeah.
I I think it it helps for us tothink about these things
sometimes, at least.
SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (43:23):
I'm I'm kind of reeling from like all the
details of your family's story.
I mean, it's like really, reallybig stuff for you know a small
person to have had to deal with,you know, like referring to you
in childhood.
But honestly, like through yourwords and just a little bit you
shared here today, I I reallyfeel like you're taking your
(43:44):
experiences and using them usingthem to empower other people as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:49):
Which which is like just so cool.
I like that you aren't justsitting in the corner licking
your wounds, you're actuallysaying, Yeah, like there's life
after all this nonsense.
SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (44:00):
Like I love your outlook and your attitude.
It's just really positive,inspiring stuff.
So thank you.
I I'm really looking forward tohearing your new podcast when it
comes out.
Again, for those peoplelistening, the podcast will be
called Echoes of Resilience.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (44:17):
And um as soon as that is available, we'll we'll
have to post links on um ourwebsite and in the show notes
here so that people can takeadvantage of listening to this
great stuff.
That's fantastic.
I I really do appreciate youtaking the time and like not
just the time, but actuallyexposing some like really deep
(44:40):
emotional stuff here and like inprivate moments just in the in
the um interest of helping otherpeople.
I mean, it's it takes a lot ofcourage, and I really do
appreciate you showing that forus here today.
SPEAKER_02 (44:52):
Well, thank you so much for this platform.
And to be honest, I didn't evenreally think that having this
conversation would be as helpfulas it was.
So thank you for your platform,and because it is definitely
something that you know peopleare going through, and um people
need to get through and theyneed resources and they need to
(45:14):
hear, you know, stories of howpeople have done it and how
they're maneuvering it.
So thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (45:20):
Yeah, really appreciate that.
You're welcome.
Thank thank you again, Star, fortaking the time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Thank you for listening to When the Bow
Breaks.
Links in this week's show notes.
As always, please remember tolike, follow, and share.
Thoughts expressed by our guestsdo not necessarily reflect the
views of WTP or its affiliates.
The views expressed on this showare opinion and experience based
and are not intended as asubstitute for therapy.
(45:48):
Content should not be taken asmedical advice, and it's here
for informational purposes only.
Please consult your health careprofessional for any medical or
mental health related questions.
The following is a King Fisher Media Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:08):
You are listening to When the Bell Breaks.
I'm your host, AC Fisher.
With me today is Star Mallory.
Star has described herself as asingle mother of two young
adults and a people manager.
Can you tell us a little bitabout that, Star?
SPEAKER_02 (00:24):
Absolutely.
Hello.
Thanks for having me.
I am a mother of two youngadults.
They will be 25 and 21 inAugust.
Fun fact that I normally like toshare about them is that they
have the same birthday, eventhough they are four years
apart.
Wow.
Yeah.
(00:45):
They they actually love it.
So most kids wouldn't like it,but they do.
But that's how close they are.
They're so close.
And I'm also a people manager.
I am a manager of about 50agents in a call center here.
And we are in the energyefficiency field.
So I help customers calling inwith questions about their
(01:08):
rebates and things like that.
SPEAKER_03 (01:12):
You're kind of a big deal then.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Kind of.
SPEAKER_03 (01:17):
No, that's actually like really exciting.
I I guess when you raise twokids by yourself, it sort of
probably uniquely equips you todeal with, you know, a call
center full of people.
SPEAKER_02 (01:28):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03 (01:29):
Almost the same amount of chaos, right?
SPEAKER_02 (01:32):
Yes.
Sometimes more.
SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
And I I see here that also you're developing a
podcast.
Did you want to share anythingabout that or is that still
under wraps?
SPEAKER_02 (01:44):
Sure.
I am in the beginning stages.
I actually recorded my firstepisode yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (01:51):
Congratulations.
SPEAKER_02 (01:53):
Thank you.
It went really well.
I'm super excited.
The name of the podcast isEchoes of Resilience.
And it talks, um, we talk aboutor two women who have faced some
difficult life challenges andbounce back.
We talk about uh resources thatthey use to help them get
(02:14):
through what they were goingthrough, the lessons that they
learn.
Uh, we talk about self-care andwhat resilience means to them.
So I'm super excited.
It's my baby.
SPEAKER_03 (02:26):
Yeah, this sounds like it's a bit of a passion
project for you.
SPEAKER_02 (02:29):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (02:30):
No, that that's really exciting.
I mean, like there's not enoughpeople, I don't think, talking
about these sorts of things.
And I I I always reallyappreciate hearing about people
who are sort of, you know, ifthey're not finding adequate
resources or not quite the rightones, when they become a
resource themselves.
It's just it's it's really good.
Thank you for jumping into thefray and and providing something
(02:52):
like that for people.
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (02:55):
Okay, well, now that we've talked you up, what what
brings you to when the bowbreaks today?
SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
So I saw a call for people who are estranged from
their families, and I'veanswered.
So it is pretty much an ongoingthing for me, or it has been
over the years.
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Where my family has either either I have, you know,
cut ties with them and walkedaway and just didn't have any
dealings whatsoever.
It's been a few times off and onthroughout my life.
I guess to start out with, I amadopted.
I'm also adopted in the family.
(03:40):
So my great uncle adopted myselfand my little brother.
He is the uncle of my mother.
Um, he and his wife adopted us.
Wow.
Um, they've had me since dayone, basically since I came home
from the hospital.
And uh a little over a yearlater, my brother came and they
(04:05):
adopted him as well.
With them being, you know, thesame age as my um grandparents
would have been.
They had older children, my auntand uncle.
And so oftentimes those childrenwere left to uh help in the
(04:26):
raising of us, I guess.
SPEAKER_03 (04:28):
So they were like extra parents, you mean?
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Yes.
Yeah.
So they had um authoritativeinfluence over over us.
And let's see, probably for mostof my childhood growing up, they
didn't have a lot to do with us.
They were just kind of around.
(04:52):
Particularly one of the siblingsthat would ultimately be
responsible for a lot of raisingus was in another state living
with her family.
Um, she had started a family andmoved to another state.
SPEAKER_03 (05:07):
Just sorry, I I hate to interrupt you.
So she was responsible for youwhile she was out of state or
before she went out of state?
SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
She was not.
So she was not in the picture alot of time as far as me growing
up till I got to be probablypreteen.
SPEAKER_03 (05:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (05:27):
Um, 11 or 12.
She was in and out, like backand forth.
I did spend some time with herin another state.
I can remember that.
But when I was 11 or 12, one ofour siblings was in an accident.
Um, it was in the wintertime,and she was hitchhiking and
(05:50):
jumped in a vehicle that was an18-wheeler, a semi.
And that driver fell asleep atthe wheel and ended up colliding
with another semi.
SPEAKER_01 (06:04):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_02 (06:05):
That left my sister, a quadruple.
She was paralyzed from her neckdown.
And so at the time, we wereliving in a completely different
city from where she was.
It was about an hour and a halfaway.
And our whole life was uprooted.
(06:26):
And well, one of the adultsdecided that we were going to
move to um a capital city wherethere would be more help for my
sister, who was a quadriplegic.
And that's where the othersister that became the
authoritative figure kind oftook over.
So she's like, hey, we're movinghere, they have better
hospitals.
So the family did move for sometime.
(06:47):
It was just myself and mybrother with her.
And I don't know, you know, whather gripe was with my mother to
this day, but she hated mymother.
Um, and so she made sure thatshe reminded us of that hate
that she had for our mother, um,and just would say very awful
(07:08):
things to us that as an adultthinking back, I'm like, oh, how
could you ever, you know, saythose things to a child?
SPEAKER_03 (07:17):
Um that's a lot for a kid of you know 11-ish to be
dealing with.
SPEAKER_02 (07:23):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (07:24):
Wow.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
It was it was a lot, and I even just with like the
whole accident and the mood, ourworld was being just turned
upside down.
SPEAKER_01 (07:35):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:36):
And so yeah, I I think a lot about you know why
she was the way she was, andjust knowing her.
She's very controlling, and shewants to control things, and she
wants them to go her way.
And I think she wanted to likecontrol my spirit or like break
(07:57):
my spirit, and I think that thatmade her dislike me even more
that she couldn't do that.
SPEAKER_03 (08:03):
Yeah, I could see that being frustrating for that
type of personality.
SPEAKER_02 (08:07):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (08:08):
They like victims, they don't like people that can
hold their ground, do they?
SPEAKER_02 (08:12):
No, not at all.
And the more I would resist, Ithink the more she just felt
like, uh, you know, what am Igonna do with you?
So I grew up in, you know, inthat house, and I pretty much
was left to kind of take care ofmy sister that was a
quadriplegic.
I did a lot of things for her.
(08:33):
They ended up having a huge homebuilt, and my room was
strategically put across thehall from hers.
So I was pretty much up at herbeck and call whenever she would
call me in the middle of thenight, one, two, three o'clock
in the morning.
SPEAKER_03 (08:50):
And what age range are we kind of talking about
here during this time?
SPEAKER_02 (08:53):
Probably about 16.
I was about 16, 17.
SPEAKER_03 (08:59):
That that's still kind of young to be like a
full-time, essentially on-callnurse for somebody who's
physically challenged.
SPEAKER_02 (09:07):
Yeah.
Um, you know, and it's it was mysister and I loved her, and it
was frustrating at times.
And like I said, on top ofeverything else that I was
dealing with, it was a lie.
It really was.
But it was my life, you know.
SPEAKER_03 (09:24):
Like, did it ever occur to you that this was not
like the normal order of things,or was this just kind of
business as usual for you?
SPEAKER_02 (09:32):
Pretty much everything about my childhood I
knew was not normal.
I knew that, you know, thisisn't the way that I'm supposed
to be talked to, this isn't theway that I'm supposed to be
treated, this isn't normal.
SPEAKER_03 (09:48):
So that must have made it all that much heavier
then.
SPEAKER_02 (09:51):
Yes.
I didn't know the word for it,but I knew that it was
dysfunctional.
I didn't know that that was theword, but I knew that it wasn't
healthy.
And also that energy kind ofgoes against everything that is
me.
I am rebellious, and I am free,and I am, you know, they they
(10:15):
always called me weird growingup, and I always took that in
such a negative way becausethat's how they put it out
there, you know.
They would always address it asa negative thing.
SPEAKER_03 (10:29):
It's kind of interesting though, because I
mean, right from the tone ofyour voice when you said hello
today, I got this strong sensethat you were a very determined
person.
And like just the little bit youshare with your story so far,
it's really becoming clear whythat is the case.
SPEAKER_02 (10:46):
I definitely think that a lot of my child rearing
is why my personality is the waythat it is, for sure.
I've I've learned a lot oflessons from my uh quote unquote
parental relationships, I think.
SPEAKER_03 (11:03):
No, I I I get that.
I I I come out of kind of like aless than ideal environment
myself.
So I know how like thesenegatives can be translated into
strong positives when dealingwith my own kids.
It sounds like you know, that'sbeen your experience as well,
yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:19):
Oh, yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (11:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
So I um how we got to the point where I just, you
know, felt like enough isenough.
Well, before that, I so thesister that I hoped to take care
of actually she had gotten asettlement from her accident.
And I will always be around andhearing the adults talk.
(11:46):
And I remember hearing my sistersay on several occasions, she
wanted my brother and I includedin on her will, and she wanted
us to be equal as all the otherbrothers and sisters, because my
parents who raised us never, Inever saw them as anything as my
parents, and they neverpresented me as anything but
their child.
(12:08):
So it was clear to them thatthey, you know, they loved me
and were raising me and mybrother as their children.
And for the most part, I thinkfor all the siblings, I I
believe that that's what they,you know, thought as well.
But the one particular siblingdidn't feel that that we should
be equal, even though we mybrother and I did most of the
(12:32):
taking care of my sister.
I mean, he had to help get herin and out of the van whenever
she wanted to go anywhere.
It was a big, long, drawn-outprocess.
And he had to put her on thefoyer lift and lift her up and
put her in the chair.
And, you know, we and I don'tthink our sister took all that
we did for her for granted.
I think she knew that that thatwas a heavy ask and that it was
(12:55):
a lot for teenagers to do, andthat she saw and recognized that
we did that.
And, you know, her stance wasthey should get equal as all the
siblings because they're asibling.
And I can remember hearing thissister, you know, rebut it and
she didn't like it and shedidn't want it.
(13:17):
And I heard her say one time, ifit were left up to me, they
wouldn't get anything.
SPEAKER_01 (13:22):
Oh wow.
SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
So I'm like, oh, okay.
So time goes on.
My sister, you know, I didn'tthink much of it because I
really didn't care, honestly.
My sister passed away, and shelived for quite some time.
They didn't think she would, butshe lived for quite a while, and
(13:45):
there was a blowout between oneof the siblings and the other
sister, and the other siblingkept saying, She changed the
will, she changed the will.
And so I'm like, What?
Okay, whatever, you know, timegoes on, comes time for the
money to come, and my brotherand I got one check for$2,000.
SPEAKER_03 (14:11):
And that was obviously not what you were
expecting.
SPEAKER_02 (14:15):
I knew that there was more than$4,000 between the
two of us.
That should have been, you know,there she there was a
multimillion dollar lawsuit, andI knew that all the siblings
didn't get$2,000.
So I knew that it wasn't fair,and I knew that she changed the
(14:36):
will.
And I mean, though those wordsjust came back to my mind.
I took the money, I didn't fuss,I just, you know, I signed the
check and cashed it, and justthought, well, well, so be it,
you know.
I also never cried and was neveras hurt as I was that day.
(14:58):
Because all the years of mequestioning my identity and if
they love me, and do they haveto put up with me, that verified
and validated all the doubtsthat I had, but had tried to
squash in my mind all over theyears.
That brought it to life and itverified it for me.
(15:20):
And the message was, you're notone of us.
SPEAKER_03 (15:25):
Yeah, that's not about$2,000 at that point.
That's not at all losing yoursense of you know your valid
role in the family, right?
SPEAKER_02 (15:34):
Yes.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:35):
That must have been incredibly hurtful for you.
SPEAKER_02 (15:38):
It was devastating and crushing because all my life
I've been, I don't belong, theydon't want me.
And then I would come back andbe like, but they have to, they
raised you, they it they choseyou, you know, they picked you,
they have to love you, you know.
And for that to happen, it wasjust a slap in the face, and it
(16:00):
was like, see, told you so.
They don't like you, they don'tlove you.
Um, and also what was also umhurtful was that none of the
other siblings stood up.
None of them said, Hey, this iswrong, we're gonna make it
right.
None of them said, You can't dothis, we won't allow this.
Right, you know, so you know,while they weren't responsible
(16:23):
for changing the will, I feltlike they played a part in that.
SPEAKER_03 (16:28):
Through very inaction, you mean?
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_02 (16:31):
Yes.
And my dad was still alive atthe time, and I kind of, you
know, also blamed him, eventhough this sibling is very
controlling, almostmanipulative, controlling.
She has that type of spirit.
And so she has done that toeverybody around her.
(16:52):
And if you don't play her gameher way, then it's hell to pay.
SPEAKER_03 (16:57):
So the path of least resistance is just to follow
whatever nastiness that she'sweaving.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Yes.
Yeah.
So that was the first part of meever, you know, just totally
alienating the family and beinglike, you know, I'm too hurt.
I don't want to deal with this.
Um we never really communicatedgrowing up.
So what's the point of me tryingto talk?
I already know it's gonna be,you know, it's gonna fall on
(17:25):
deaf ears.
So I just I I kind of distancedmyself for many years.
I did.
SPEAKER_03 (17:34):
So how how old are you when this first wave of
estrangement starts?
SPEAKER_02 (17:39):
Probably about 25 or 26.
SPEAKER_01 (17:44):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
And I so there was just no communication.
Um, of course, she would saynasty things about me to other
people for it to get back to me.
And my brother also cut tieswith them at that time.
So I didn't speak to them oranything for a while.
And then I think I kept goingback and forth because I kept
(18:08):
feeling guilty because I feellike I owe them something
because they raised me.
And so I I would go back and belike, okay, forgive and forget,
and let's just move on.
And I kept feeling like reachout to your dad.
I just kept having a thought ofreach out to my dad and take him
(18:29):
to breakfast and blah, blah,blah.
But I kept putting it off.
And we still weren't speaking,and I kept putting it off, and
then one day they called andsaid that my dad had had a
stroke.
SPEAKER_01 (18:41):
Oh no.
SPEAKER_02 (18:43):
And I was so devastated because I knew that
like the weeks coming up to himhaving the stroke were when it
was really strong in my mind toreach out to my dad.
And so I was at the hospital, soof course I was around more, and
it to them, you know, it's kindof like, okay, well, she's she
snapped out of it and she'sback, you know, coming around or
(19:04):
whatever.
And my dad ended up passing awayfrom the stroke, but I did get
to tell him like everything thatI wanted to tell him, which is
why I kept thinking, like, takehim to lunch or to breakfast and
you know, tell him you'rethankful, and blah, blah, blah.
And I was like, okay, you know,because we weren't like feeling
type of people, like we don'tshare our feelings, and you
(19:27):
know, my dad was a dude's dude,and I just was like, oh, he's
not mushy, and you know.
SPEAKER_03 (19:34):
Is that a big part of what held you back from
expressing yourself then?
SPEAKER_02 (19:38):
Yes.
Yeah.
And is not comfortable.
And I was like, I don't want itto be awkward.
And so I just kept putting itoff, and I didn't really realize
that.
Honestly, I think that was likemy last chance to tell him how I
felt.
So when he was in the hospital,he was coherent, and I did get a
chance to tell him that I heldhis hand.
(20:00):
And I told him that I thank himfor raising me and for choosing
me, and that he was the best andthe strongest and the bravest
man I had ever met, and the onlyman that I ever fully trusted in
my life.
And I just got to just speak allthese beautiful things to my
dad.
And he couldn't speak back, butmy dad wasn't mushy, remember.
(20:24):
And when I got done, a teardropped down his eye.
And he shook his head, yes.
SPEAKER_03 (20:35):
What a beautiful moment.
SPEAKER_02 (20:38):
And so I knew that he had heard everything that I
needed him to hear from me.
Yeah.
And I also knew that probablynone of his other children had
that opportunity to have thatmoment because I knew that it
was on my heart for a reason.
You know, he needed to hearthat.
And he died a little a coupledays after that, he passed away.
(20:59):
And there was still, you know, alittle the the negative energy
and toxicity where there endedup being a blowout with my
sister about a cell phone.
And it was because I think shefelt like she was about to get
exposed about something.
So she just flipped out.
(21:20):
And I said, that's it, I don'thave to take this.
So again, I kind of kept myselfaway from the family for, and I
mean, and that didn't take anytime, honestly.
Maybe about two years.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:36):
And and then they opened a restaurant, and my
sister kept messaging me, andshe's like, I need you to be my
sister.
Will you please be my sister?
And I the soft spot in my heartagain.
SPEAKER_03 (21:51):
Sucker.
SPEAKER_02 (21:52):
Yes.
Yes.
I started coming around.
I started helping out at therestaurant.
I started helping out withsocial media.
It's, you know, oh, it's in mydad's name because it was it's a
barbecue restaurant, and heloved to barbecue, and it was
his recipe.
And oh, we're doing this fordaddy.
And once again, the negativityand the toxicity presented
(22:16):
itself again.
And in this case, you know, butmy son was graduating, and they
were, yeah, we're gonna bethere, and we love him, and
blah, blah, blah.
Well, the day comes and nobody'sthere for his graduation.
And I'm like, you know, I'mtired of being let down.
(22:37):
My son didn't deserve this.
You know, they basically liedand said they were coming and
didn't come, and then everybodyhad an excuse.
SPEAKER_03 (22:46):
But now they're messing with your kids, that's a
whole different emotional realm,isn't it?
SPEAKER_02 (22:50):
Yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Mess with me is one thing, butthe kids is something completely
different.
So I cut off ties again, andthat was two years ago now.
And it's so crazy because it'sjust the one person in the
(23:14):
family, but I have to cut tieswith everybody because they're
all so I don't want to saybrainwashed, but they're just so
like in tune with the the orderof how she thinks things should
go.
Yeah.
That it's like I have to have arelationship with her if I have
(23:36):
a relationship with anybodyelse.
SPEAKER_03 (23:38):
And that sounds like a bad package deal.
SPEAKER_02 (23:41):
Yes.
So I just felt like if you don'tlike me and you, you know, you
just can't stand me, why wouldyou want me to keep coming
around?
And like when I'm not, you know,really on speaking terms with
them, they'll reach out andthey'll haul and they'll have my
cousin call, and they're, youknow, oh, we miss you and we
(24:03):
want to know how the kids are.
But it's like, I don't know.
I know in my culture andcommunity, we are kind of taught
to like put up with everythingbecause it's family.
Oh, it's family, it's family.
Oh, it that's family.
And it's like, where was theirfamily mentality or mindset when
they were doing all the thingsthat they were doing to me?
SPEAKER_03 (24:27):
And and that's a that's a fair question, I think.
SPEAKER_02 (24:31):
It's and it's always, you know, I always ask
because I'm like, well, youexpect me to accept certain
behaviors because I'm family.
Do you not accept them to not docertain things to me because I'm
family, you know?
So I just decided that I don'twant to keep on that on that
(24:54):
merry-go-round of justnegativity and it's unhealthy.
SPEAKER_03 (25:01):
Yeah, well, it sounds like it's it's definitely
not good for you.
This doesn't sound like a caseof you've just got fragile
feelings and you need to, youknow, figure out your own end of
things entirely.
It sounds like I don't know, inmy opinion, you you did the only
thing you could do, which isprotect yourself and and your
kids.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
If you are experiencing estrangement from a
family member and would like tobe a guest, you can email us at
wtbbpodcast at gmail.com.
Your privacy is important to us.
Guests have the option to remainanonymous or use a pseudonym.
SPEAKER_03 (25:42):
So, like, you're obviously sitting on a lot of
like either unanswered orunanswerable questions as far as
your your family members areconcerned, like most especially
your sister, as far as hermotivations and whatnot.
Like in in the day-to-day, likehow do you how do you carry
that?
Like, what do you do?
SPEAKER_02 (26:03):
Um, I think, and it might sound uh cliche, but I
just try to be the best personthat I can be.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
Okay.
SPEAKER_02 (26:11):
Um, because like I know that she is she has a
sickness, and there's nothingthat I can do about that, but
what I can do is decide that I'mnot going to let her sickness
contaminate contaminate me.
Okay.
I can't change her, I can't makeher see the air of her ways and
(26:36):
her thinking, and you know, howcould you?
Because she's always going tohave justification for doing
what she has done because it'swhat makes her be able to sleep
at night, you know.
She's totally justified in doingeverything that she's done in
her mind.
SPEAKER_03 (26:56):
I've got a sister who's just like that.
So I feel your pain.
SPEAKER_02 (27:01):
Yeah, it's like, you know, how do you live with
yourself?
How are you a decent humanbeing?
How can you look at yourself inthe mirror?
And it's like, oh, becausepeople like that make it okay in
their minds for what they'redoing.
SPEAKER_03 (27:15):
From her perspective, she probably
doesn't even realize how nastyshe's actually being.
SPEAKER_02 (27:20):
No.
And it's a way of life, and youknow, I had my cousin kept
saying, Well, why do you expectany different?
And it and that pissed me off sobad.
Like it made me so mad.
And but I understand now whatshe meant.
She the sister is like that witheverybody, like she doesn't like
(27:41):
anyone, she doesn't likeherself.
Like it wasn't a personal thing.
I think that's what my cousinwas trying to get me to see.
SPEAKER_03 (27:48):
So your cousin's not like shrugging her shoulders and
saying, Well, that's just her.
She's basically telling you setrealistic expectations.
SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (27:57):
Okay.
Your cousin sounds like a smartcookie.
SPEAKER_02 (28:00):
Yeah.
She is.
She, I I value her opinion alllike, and we grew up together.
So she knows, like she grew upin that household.
So she knows, you know, how herit's her odd.
She knows how she is.
But I was just like, no, Idon't, I get to choose how the
relationships that I'm in, howthey're gonna go.
(28:22):
And if they're not going the waythat's healthy for me, then I
don't, I don't have to be inthat relationship, no matter who
you are, even if you are myfamily.
SPEAKER_03 (28:33):
Yeah.
Well, I I know somebody told meyears ago when when I was
dealing with family estrangementstuff and really not sure how to
navigate the emotions.
That they said, not everybodyyou lose is a loss.
Can you identify it all withthat statement?
SPEAKER_02 (28:50):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Um, because she really broughtno nothing positive, it was just
all negative energy.
And I mean, that's what I wantedto get away from, you know,
that's what I wanted to lose.
So I I definitely can agree withthat.
(29:13):
That not everybody you lose is aloss.
SPEAKER_03 (29:16):
When you think about your sister, what what comes up
emotionally?
Are you feeling the love there,or is there something more
complicated?
Like I'm always curious aboutthis end of things.
SPEAKER_02 (29:28):
Honestly, I don't feel the love there.
I can never feel the love there.
The words are very powerful.
Um, I've I've heard people saythat you know verbal and
emotional abuse is worse thanphysical abuse because you know,
the bruises and the scars goaway.
SPEAKER_01 (29:49):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (29:50):
And with with the verbal and emotional, you
constantly have those words, youknow, ringing in your mind.
You have to constantly for me, Ihave to constantly unlearn
things that were poured into meas a child from an authoritative
(30:10):
figure, somebody who I should beable to trust and believe
everything that they say, whohas spent a great part of their
life sewing foul, vile wordsinto my heart about my mother,
against my mother, andultimately about and against
(30:32):
myself.
SPEAKER_03 (30:34):
No, it's almost like you get taught to like um abuse
yourself inside your own head.
SPEAKER_02 (30:40):
Yes, yeah.
I hated my mother.
I hated my mother because of allof the things she would say to
me about my mom.
She would tell me your motherdoesn't want you, she didn't
want you, nobody wants you.
You're not gonna be nothing inthis world.
(31:00):
And it's like, how could youknow, as an adult and even with
children, I would never tell mykids anything that I know would
bruise their little souls ortheir spirits or their egos.
SPEAKER_03 (31:17):
No, that that's just a realm of nasty.
I I I can't even because I meanyou're a parent, I'm a parent.
Like we we've got kids, but evenif they weren't our kids, they
were like total stranger kids,even if they were nasty,
unbehaved kids.
Like I couldn't torture a childpsychologically like that.
My my my mind just not wiredthat way.
(31:39):
So yeah.
It's like when you when youthink back on your own
childhood, like it's gonna be afairly on-the-nose observation.
I mean, like, you know how wrongthat is.
You're obviously gonna have someresentments there.
SPEAKER_02 (31:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (31:53):
But how do you cope with that in the day today?
Like when these things come up.
SPEAKER_02 (31:59):
So I I think for me, what's really important is
forgiveness for me.
Because the and I will tell youback to the the will changing of
the will, that took a lot for meto come back from.
(32:20):
It did.
It took a lot for me to say,okay, I'll trust you and I'll be
your sister again.
It took a lot for me to comeback from that because I was
betrayed to the highest level ofbetrayal that you know that I
could imagine.
And I literally had to forgiveher and just pray and be like,
(32:46):
you know what, I have to letthis go.
And I knew that I had to let itgo.
I had to let go of all the angerand the resentment for myself.
And to be 100% honest with you,once I let that go and forgave
everybody involved, I felt somuch better because uh there was
a time I couldn't not tell thatstory without crying.
(33:08):
And and I am not a superemotional person.
It takes a lot for me to come totears.
SPEAKER_01 (33:15):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (33:16):
And that thing hurt me so bad.
But I had to, when I I know thatwhen I let it go, telling that
story didn't have there wasn'tthe power in it anymore.
Once I forgave for that.
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
So, and and I really am at a point, and I'm I'm gonna
be totally transparent here.
Two years past this lastincident, there have been some
things said to other people, youknow, so that it comes back to
me that are nasty.
Nasty things said.
And um, so I'm I'm strugglingwith the forgiveness again
(33:55):
because you know, people thinkthat when you forgive somebody,
they think a couple differentthings.
When you forgive people, ohthat's it, you just forgive them
and they're forgiven.
No, sometimes it's a process,sometimes I have to forgive on a
layaway plan.
SPEAKER_03 (34:11):
Well, you guys like a daily decision, yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
And then people, you know, they also think that, oh,
when you forgive them, you haveto be friends with them again,
and that's absolutely not thecase.
I can forgive and I can forfeittoxicity, I can forgive you and
say, but I don't want to dealwith this anymore.
So I think kind of for me, I'mkind of trying to find balance
(34:39):
right now between forgiving andaccepting because it is even
though it wasn't ideal, it waswhat I knew.
It was my life.
SPEAKER_01 (34:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (34:52):
So accepting that, you know, I'm not, it hurts me.
It does.
It hurts me that, you know, myother sibling is is with her,
and I really can't talk to thatother sibling because she's so
whenever I get on the phone withher, she wants to get this other
sister on the phone.
And I hate that.
SPEAKER_03 (35:12):
So you're not talking to your sister, you're
talking to your other sister'sagent, basically.
SPEAKER_02 (35:17):
Exactly.
Yeah, that's I don't want totalk to her, you know.
So if I can't call and talk toyou, then just you, then I won't
call.
So it is a balance because Iwill think, oh, I miss my one
sister, you know, I'll reach outto her daughter and ask how
she's doing and tell her that Iasked about her or whatever.
But it's kind of like abalancing act and trying to find
(35:41):
in myself, okay, how can I cometo a healthy, you know, medium
to where I'm just like, I don'twant to deal with this, all the
pain and the negativity thatcomes with that anymore, even
though I do, you know, I do missthem, but I feel like it's
what's best for my emotionalwell-being.
SPEAKER_03 (36:04):
And I don't know the stuff that like people who don't
deal directly with estrangementissues, I don't think they
understand like how complicatedfamily stuff can get.
Because I mean, it it's usuallya case of you're dealing with
one person who just absolutelyhas to go.
But they take so much otherstuff, like people with them, so
(36:26):
much other stuff, like not justrelationships, but
opportunities, your sense ofself that all goes out the door
with this nasty person.
SPEAKER_02 (36:35):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (36:36):
And yeah, yeah, it can be like really challenging
figuring out like just you know,how do I find me in all of this,
like the best me?
SPEAKER_02 (36:45):
Yeah, yeah, because I struggle.
I do, I it's I think I feelguilty sometimes, and I like I
don't sit in that for a longtime, but I do kind of sometimes
feel like well, I owe them, youknow.
Yeah, well, they raise me, and II will feel like, well, that's
(37:06):
wrong for me.
But then I I go back to, butwhat about me?
Who is concerned for me?
Who thinks about me?
Who's trying to protect me?
And I know that that is nobody'sresponsibility but my own.
So I have to make some some hardchoices and decisions.
And I think my peace of mind ismore important than making them
(37:30):
feel good, because at the end ofthe day, that's what they want
me around for.
They don't want it to be anyfriction, or they don't want me
to show that there's friction,but they want to continue to
behave like they do.
SPEAKER_03 (37:44):
And they want you to be willing participant, yes.
SPEAKER_02 (37:48):
And and and nothing about me is is that is is just,
you know, you don't get to treatme any kind of way, no matter
who you are.
You're not allowed to tomistreat me and misuse me.
SPEAKER_03 (38:03):
Right.
So do you do you feel likeyou've gained more than you've
lost in all of this?
SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
Um, I do honestly feel like that's a good
question.
I do feel like I've gained morethan I've lost.
I really feel like everythingthat we go through is, you know,
for a reason.
And I've I've gotten a lot ofinsight and a lot of who I am,
(38:31):
and I've been able to, I guess,you know, it's kind of how I
cope too, is the knowledge thatI've been able to take my power
back.
As a child, you might have beenable to say all these terrible
things to me and treat mehowever, and I had to deal with
(38:52):
it and put up with it and shutup and do as you say.
But as an adult, I can make agood decision based off all
these years of experiences, andI can stand up for that little
girl who you told wouldn't beanything, who you said was
unwanted, who you said didn'thave a voice, and I can be all
(39:15):
those things, and you don't getthe pleasure of having me in
your life because you know what?
I am a pretty awesome person.
So, you know, I feel like it'syour loss, you know, that you
don't get to have all thisawesomeness in your life, yeah,
(39:35):
and you know, you just have togo be miserable.
So, yeah, I do.
I feel like I've gained muchmore, much more than I have
lost.
SPEAKER_03 (39:44):
So, what's the next step for you as far as your role
in this family that isestranged?
SPEAKER_02 (39:52):
Um, I honestly don't know how to answer that.
For me, I just it's just Justbetter for me emotionally and
mentally to keep my distance andto just rest in the fact that,
you know, whatever consequencesthey have to deal with in
(40:16):
regards to any wrongdoing of me,they'll have to face that one
day.
I don't want anything bad tohappen to them, but you know,
there are consequences to youractions.
And I will say that, you know,the last time, you know, she
said she, they're sodisrespectful.
And I don't know, that kind ofpissed me off because I've
(40:37):
always been respectful of themand I've always treated the
siblings almost like they weremy parents.
So I gave a lot of respect, evenwhere it wasn't due to me at
times.
But I am, I'm totally fine withhaving peace in my life, in my
mind, and in my heart.
(40:58):
If, you know, which I highlydoubt, they were to reach out
and say, hey, I want to talk toyou.
I sincerely apologize and blah,blah, blah.
You know, I might move forward.
But as far as us having like thetraditional close family
relationship, like we didbefore, how you know, where I
(41:21):
was, because I was there like atall the family functions, I
would show up and I wouldparticipate.
And, you know, I was in chargeof getting at Thanksgiving of
getting all the names for wedid, we did uh Christmas
drawing.
So we pulled a name andeverybody was responsible.
So I was in charge of that.
I I think that that is that isover because I just refuse to
(41:42):
continue to put myself in asituation where I'm not honored,
where I'm not respected, andwhere I'm not valued.
SPEAKER_03 (41:53):
Right.
So if you could say something toyou know, the sister in question
and actually have her understandand accept and absorb it, what
would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (42:12):
Um It would be that I know we can't change what has
happened in the past.
Um, but I wish I knew who hurtyou and to you know, to make you
just do and say some of the meanand ugly, nasty things.
(42:34):
I wish I could understand youmore and where your anger and
hatred is coming from.
And I wish that you could knowthat it's misplaced.
Um, and I wish that you couldknow that had you cultivated the
relationship properly, we couldhave an amazing relationship.
(42:58):
And you could have not only anamazing sister, but an amazing
friend.
SPEAKER_03 (43:03):
That's yeah, that that that's powerful stuff,
Star.
SPEAKER_02 (43:07):
Thank you for asking me that question.
SPEAKER_03 (43:10):
It it's it's a question that's kind of you
know, it's it's close to homefor me.
Yeah.
I I think it it helps for us tothink about these things
sometimes, at least.
SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_03 (43:23):
I'm I'm kind of reeling from like all the
details of your family's story.
I mean, it's like really, reallybig stuff for you know a small
person to have had to deal with,you know, like referring to you
in childhood.
But honestly, like through yourwords and just a little bit you
shared here today, I I reallyfeel like you're taking your
(43:44):
experiences and using them usingthem to empower other people as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (43:48):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (43:49):
Which which is like just so cool.
I like that you aren't justsitting in the corner licking
your wounds, you're actuallysaying, Yeah, like there's life
after all this nonsense.
SPEAKER_01 (43:59):
For sure.
SPEAKER_03 (44:00):
Like I love your outlook and your attitude.
It's just really positive,inspiring stuff.
So thank you.
I I'm really looking forward tohearing your new podcast when it
comes out.
Again, for those peoplelistening, the podcast will be
called Echoes of Resilience.
SPEAKER_01 (44:16):
Yes.
SPEAKER_03 (44:17):
And um as soon as that is available, we'll we'll
have to post links on um ourwebsite and in the show notes
here so that people can takeadvantage of listening to this
great stuff.
That's fantastic.
I I really do appreciate youtaking the time and like not
just the time, but actuallyexposing some like really deep
(44:40):
emotional stuff here and like inprivate moments just in the in
the um interest of helping otherpeople.
I mean, it's it takes a lot ofcourage, and I really do
appreciate you showing that forus here today.
SPEAKER_02 (44:52):
Well, thank you so much for this platform.
And to be honest, I didn't evenreally think that having this
conversation would be as helpfulas it was.
So thank you for your platform,and because it is definitely
something that you know peopleare going through, and um people
need to get through and theyneed resources and they need to
(45:14):
hear, you know, stories of howpeople have done it and how
they're maneuvering it.
So thanks.
SPEAKER_03 (45:20):
Yeah, really appreciate that.
You're welcome.
Thank thank you again, Star, fortaking the time.
SPEAKER_00 (45:26):
Thank you for listening to When the Bow
Breaks.
Links in this week's show notes.
As always, please remember tolike, follow, and share.
Thoughts expressed by our guestsdo not necessarily reflect the
views of WTP or its affiliates.
The views expressed on this showare opinion and experience based
and are not intended as asubstitute for therapy.
(45:48):
Content should not be taken asmedical advice, and it's here
for informational purposes only.
Please consult your health careprofessional for any medical or
mental health related questions.
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