November 5, 2025 • 37 mins
Ashlee [00:00:00]:
Law enforcement is huge on this podcast, but we're trying to hit everyone. And here you are saying, like, this was my life as a dispatcher and I do think there is a disconnect sometimes. And I think that's something that I have learned from working in this field. I do think dispatchers don't get recognized enough for these incidences, for the stuff that they hear, that they go through. And look at this. You're saying this was personal to me too. Like this was my own call that I, that I took. Right.
Ashlee [00:00:25]:
And. And ptsd. It doesn't matter who you are. It doesn't discriminate. You can get it no matter what. And I think that's so incredibly important to share and.
Jennifer [00:00:35]:
Hi, welcome back to when the Call Hits Home.
Ashlee [00:00:37]:
This is Jennifer and I'm Ashlee. And today we have an incredible guest. I'm going to change the word. Well, I'm just going to say I say special every single time, but we're going to say incredible. And we're extremely excited to have him on because we're finally covering an area in which we've been saying we were going to grab. So before I go way too deep into this, I'm going to allow you to introduce yourself.
Larry Fraser [00:00:58]:
My name is Larry Frazier. I am the 911 director of a newly formed River County 911. We just recently combined Ballard and Carlisle county here in Kentucky into 1911-center. We took them over almost a year ago and we are in the final steps of getting everything completely finished. Their 911s now roll over to our department. So we're covering two counties now. We was able to increase our staff a little bit too for this. So it's been a very challenging year over the last year.
Larry Fraser [00:01:29]:
But I've been the 911 director here for Carlisle county before we merged for the last five years.
Jennifer [00:01:36]:
That's awesome, Larry, and I appreciate you sharing that. And it is hard making mergers happen, isn't it?
Larry Fraser [00:01:43]:
It's been very fun, though. We got a nice $400,000 grant from the state to do the merger.
Ashlee [00:01:49]:
Hey, Kentucky.
Larry Fraser [00:01:50]:
And to let us update everything we've got. So now our little bitty county of population less than 5,000 has now taken over a county with about 15,000 residents. And that 400,000 has allowed us to upgrade everything to next gen 911.
Jennifer [00:02:07]:
Wonderful to hear.
Larry Fraser [00:02:09]:
We have video to 911. We have text to 911. We have translation on 911 that's live. So if we get somebody that calls in speaking Spanish. Our system automatically translates everything for us.
Jennifer [00:02:22]:
It's really wonderful. Those real communities need those things too, Larry. So that's great. So just got to jump in here and tell me a little bit how and how being a first responder, 911, how mental health kind of plays into that.
Larry Fraser [00:02:38]:
Well, when I first got started, I was the very first 911 director here in Carlisle county in 1991. Wow. When we.
Ashlee [00:02:46]:
I wasn't born yet.
Larry Fraser [00:02:48]:
We don't need you to say when we first got. We first got the little red phone that 911 calls came in on. I have left 911 got into the state. Back then, mental health was not something that was ever a forefront of it back there. That was early times where PTSD was really coming out with just being a soldier's problem. That's something that was never on the forefront. Never even thought it would cross my mind when I went to college, that I would. Those psychology classes I took in college, I'd actually put into action sometime in my life.
Larry Fraser [00:03:21]:
But I came back into 911 in 2019 after semi retiring from my other job. Been in first responder my entire life. My father was Sheriff in the 70s, early 70s, mid 70s. My brother, myself are both 911 directors, both in EMS. I've been in law enforcement. I've worked with fire departments. It wasn't until after my second critical incident that mental health even really came to my mind that it's something that first responders needed. Once I went to PCIs for the first time in 2022, that's when my eyes were really opened and I've kind of dove off the deep end since that point.
Larry Fraser [00:04:03]:
I've taken several training classes to keep up with pcis. I just joined Kentucky's kccrt, which is Kentucky Community Crisis Response Team. Wow. I'm also a vice president of Kentucky apco. And with that, it's offered me the opportunity to be chairman of a small work group study where we are currently writing the standards, the National Standards for Peer Support Training.
Ashlee [00:04:33]:
Ooh, that's incredible.
Larry Fraser [00:04:36]:
The help that I got through PCIs utterly changed my life. That's when it re
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Law enforcement is huge on this podcast, but we're trying to hit
everyone. And here you are saying, like,
this was my life as a dispatcher.
And I do think there is a disconnect sometimes.
And I think that's something that I've learned from working
in this field. I do think dispatchers don't get
recognized enough for these incidences, for the stuff that
they hear that they go through. And look at this, you're saying
(00:20):
this was personal to me too. Like this was my own call that I
that I took, right? And and PTSD, it doesn't matter
who you are, it doesn't discriminate.
You can get it no matter what. And I think that's so incredibly
important to share and. Hi, welcome back to When the
Call Hits Home. This is Jennifer.
And I'm Ashley, and today we have an incredible guest.
(00:42):
I'm going to change the word. Well, I'm just going to say I
say special every single time, but we're going to say
incredible. And we're extremely excited to
have him on because we're finally covering an area in
which we've been saying we were going to grab.
So before I go way too deep intothis, I'm going to allow you to
introduce yourself. My name is Larry Frazier.
I am the 911 director of a newlyformed River County 911.
(01:04):
We just recently combined Ballard and Carlisle County here
in Kentucky into 1911 center. We took them over almost a year
ago and we are in the final steps of getting everything
completely finished. Their 91 ones now roll over to
our department. So we're covering 2 counties
now. We was able to increase our
staff a little bit too for this.So it's been a very challenging
(01:28):
year over the last year, but I've been the nine woman
director here for Carlisle County before we merged for the
last five years. That's awesome, Larry, and I
appreciate you sharing that. And it is hard making mergers
happen, isn't it? It's been very fun though.
We got a nice $400,000 grant from the State do the merger and
(01:51):
to let us update everything we've got.
So now our little bitty county of a population less than 5000
has now taken over a county withabout 15,000 residents and that
400,000 has allowed us to upgrade everything to next Gen.
911. Wonderful to.
Hear we have video to 911, we have text to 911, we have
(02:13):
translation on 911 that's live. So if we get somebody that calls
in speaking Spanish, our system automatically translates
everything for us. It's really wonderful that's
those real communities need those things too, Larry.
So that's great. So just going to jump in here
and tell me a little bit how andhow being a first responder 911,
(02:35):
how mental health kind of plays into that.
Well, when I first got started, I was the very first 911
director here in Carlisle Countyin 1991.
Wow, when we guys. I wasn't born yet.
Wait a minute. When we first got not we first
got the little red phone that 911 calls came in on.
I have left 911 got into the state.
(02:58):
Back then mental health was not something that was ever a
forefront of it back there. That was early times when PTSD
was really coming out with just being a soldiers problem.
That's something that was never on the forefront.
Never even thought it would cross my mind when I went to
college that I would. Those psychology classes I took
in college I'd actually actuallyput into action sometime in my
(03:20):
life. But I came back into 911 in 2019
after semi retiring from my other job.
Been in first responder my entire life.
My father was sheriff in the 70s, early 70s, like mid 70s.
My brother myself are both 911 directors, both in EMS.
I've been in law enforcement, I've worked with fire
(03:43):
departments. It wasn't until after my second
critical incident that mental health even really came to my
mind, that it's something that first responders needed.
Once I went to PCIS for the first time in 2022, that's when
my eyes were really opened. And I've kind of dove off the
deep end. Since that point, I've taken
(04:04):
several training classes to keepup with PCIS.
I just joined Kentucky's KCCRT, which is Kentucky Community
Crisis Response Team. I'm also vice president of
Kentucky APCO. And with that, it's offered me
the opportunity to be chairman of a small work group study
(04:26):
where we are currently writing the standards, the National
Standards for Peer Support Training.
That's incredible. The help that I got through PCIS
utterly changed my life. That's when it really got into
me that this is something that I'm passionate about, about
something that I wanted to make sure that I could bring it back
(04:49):
home, put it to work here in my local dispatch center, be able
to go to other dispatch centers and help those that are in times
of need. You know, I always like to hear
that and I always think that's so part of the first responder
world is when someone gets help,how much they want to help
somebody else. You know, I have to be honest, I
didn't realize that your dad wasa sheriff.
(05:10):
I didn't. Know either kind of grew up in a
first responder, you know, Ashley and I talk about that in
terms of our experience, is there anything that was unique
about having your dad be the sheriff?
That was probably where we our family was first touched with.
Our first traumatic incident waswhen I was 8 years old.
(05:32):
My dad was working a semi wreck and a drunk driver ran through
the roadblock and clipped our dad from behind, flipped him up
over the top of two or three patrol cars and he was in a he
leg cast for over a year becausemangled his leg in so many ways.
So a lot of the state troopers that worked this area, after dad
(05:54):
got to where he could be a little bit mobile even with his
leg in a cast all the way up, they would come pick dad up for
patrol. They would pick him up, they
would drive him around, take himout on calls, and they just, we
grew up with a house full of lawenforcement officers.
I mean, that's a sad story, but that's I, I definitely
understand what it's like to be kind of surrounded by them.
(06:15):
Both Jennifer and I do and it's,it's really unique.
We talk about that a lot with being a child of a first
responders that like you just, Idon't know how to explain it.
You don't get it unless you get it right.
And and then I think we grow these, we talk about this all
the time. We're pretty resilient children
and we just grow up to like a lot of us wanting to help
others, which is so beautiful. And I think that's what built
the desire of me and my younger brother both to get into to
(06:39):
first responding is was because of our father, our older
brother, he took it a different route and he joined the military
and he he, he retired out of themilitary.
Wow. So something I do want to kind
of because I thought this was awesome.
I hope it's OK that I share thatlike you reached out to us via
our platform, which is exactly what we want to like.
(07:01):
We love that we. Love, I love listening to your
podcast. Thank you so much.
That makes my heart so happy andwe love engaging with with you
guys. So like immediately I was like,
yes, he's got to come on right then We want others to do that
too. And I know one thing that you
had said in your message is thatyou also, and like you just
shared, you've been through yourown critical incidences.
I don't know if you're interested in opening up about
(07:22):
kind of what in your career now,especially 911 dispatch, what
has maybe LED you to this point of being like, I have to be more
involved. And if if you don't want to,
that's OK too. I just know that you were you
were open about that in your message a little.
Bit it. It probably started with my
first critical incident as a 911dispatch dispatcher.
Yesterday marks the 33rd anniversary of that call.
(07:44):
October 28th, 1992. I was working a midnight shift,
our dispatch center. I had two other dispatchers that
worked for me. One of them had been involved in
a car wreck, so everybody was out of place.
So I was pulling double shifts back then the Sheriff's Office
did dispatch from 8:00 to 4:00, and I ran dispatch from 4:00 to
(08:07):
8:00 in the morning. Oh my God.
So I was dispatching one night, and my fiance at the time had
just called me about 7:15, told me that she was getting ready to
get ready. She was in a college at the
time, and she was getting ready to go to her class.
And she said, hey, do you want me to bring you by breakfast?
I said sure. I said I never turned down food.
(08:29):
So she had a son when we met andshe was going to run him by the
babysitter and then she was going to come and visit me at
dispatch before she had to go off to school.
Just like a typical day. We talked, she said she'd be in
route. Everything went down and just
probably 2530 minutes after thatpoint, somewhere's around 73740,
(08:51):
I got a call from a lady close to my residence, said that
somebody had stopped at her house and said that there was a
man and a little boy that had run off the road and had a
wreck. So I go into 911 dispatch mode,
I dispatch out my ambulance service, I dispatch out my
Rescue Squad, call my sheriff, wake him up, get him enroute and
(09:14):
just business as usual. Got everybody headed that way.
They said it was a man and a small child.
So everybody's going that way and things.
People start getting on scene, but they're not talking back to
me very much. And then the babysitter calls
me, said, hey, Larry, have you seen is Alicia coming down to
drop Adam off today? I said, yeah, I spoke to her
(09:34):
about 30 minutes ago. There's a wreck close to our
house. Maybe she's delayed in the
wreck. Then I get another call, and the
lady says, I want to report a wreck down here.
She said, I hear ambulances and sirens in the distance.
But I just wanted to tell you there's a girl and a small child
off in the ravine. It was at that point in time
that every hair on the back of my neck stood up and I knew, I
(09:57):
knew that that was Alicia. So I start getting everybody in
route again. People start going on scene and
I start trying to get information from them.
They won't tell me anything and I just keep getting standby,
standby. What we we've got something.
Then somebody would call and say, hey, we need another medic.
Can you see if you can find another medic to meet us here or
(10:20):
enroute? So I start making the calls.
I still have the recordings of this 911 call.
It's probably not a good mental health thing to admit, but I
have them on my phone and I've listened to them from time to
time. And I've also used them to speak
to others, say, hey, this is what I went through.
But they've got the patients loaded up.
(10:42):
They're getting ready to head tothe emergency room.
The sheriff's on scene. I holler at him.
I said, can you tell me if this is my 1012, which means friend
or family? And he says, well, I'm en route
to dispatch right now. I said no, can you tell me if
this is my 10/12? He said I'm enroute.
And about that time, his wife worked for him in the office and
(11:05):
she says, Larry, I'm here if youneed to leave.
And then I asked the sheriff again, I said, is this my 1012?
And he said, 10/4, I jump out ofI wasn't.
I was also an EMT at the time. I jump out of dispatch, I get
into my truck. I don't know how I caught an
ambulance running code 3, but I caught them.
They radioed them. I got in the back of the
(11:26):
ambulance. And soon as I got in the back of
the ambulance, they turned me and said, here you work on the
child, Adam, and we'll take careof everything else.
The rest is the story is she didn't make it.
She was pretty much the OA on scene, but they run code on her
because of who she was. And I went to counseling after
that, but the counseling I went to at that point in time was
(11:49):
Christian counseling. I am Christian, so that's I
thought was appropriate, but it never really stuck with me of
what transpired. Let's Fast forward almost 25
years to my second incident whenI found out that what had
happened to me that day was thatI had PTSD.
(12:11):
My second incident was not 911 related or first responder
related. I was working my job for the
state of Kentucky as a pretrial officer.
We done interviews on everybody that gets arrested, get their
bonds set, get them a court date.
And I'd been out that morning seeing a couple of people at the
local jail and I was coming backhome to to pick up a cargo
(12:34):
trailer because we were moving into a new office.
And I was going to pick up my trailer so we can move furniture
and supplies to the new office. Was about a mile and 1/2 from my
house. And my neighbor driving was out
mowing his yard. Early morning.
June 9th, 8:10 AM. He was mowing his yard and he
(12:55):
really loved mowing his yard. He did not want lines in his
yard. He was one of those lines back
and forth and Mr. Ivy, to keep those lines, would pull out into
the middle of the road and turn around.
I come down that road. I drove down that road.
Mr. Ivy pulled out in front of me.
I hit him. He went over the top of my Tahoe
(13:17):
when I wrecked, into the trees and into the fence line.
I look up in my rearview mirror and I see Mr. Ivy laying in the
middle of the ground and instantly I thought I'd killed
Mr. Ivy. I get out of the truck.
I run to him. Several of the neighbors are
there. They say hey, we're calling 911.
This man is 91 years old, just been hit by a 4000 LB Chevy
(13:40):
Tahoe. His lawn mower and him both have
been flown up into the air. He sets up in the middle of the
road, starts talking to me asking me how I'm doing, and I'm
a nervous wreck. I had had fractured my arm, so
I'm holding my arm trying to talk to him.
My EMT skills kicked in. I start asking him how he's
(14:01):
doing. I'm running through the
questions to make sure that he hasn't had a head trauma or
anything. He starts answering questions.
The neighbors are calling 911 and he just keeps.
He kept asking me. If he asked me once, he asked me
at least five times. How are you?
I'm like Mr. Ivy, I am fine. I was inside the vehicle.
(14:21):
You're the one that flew throughthere.
How are you doing? And he saw, oh, man, he said.
This is nothing but a few bumps and scratches, he said.
I was an Airborne paratrooper inmy life, He said I've had 96
jumps, He said twice my parachute didn't open quite like
it was supposed to, and he said I hit the ground pretty hard.
He said it was a lot harder thantoday.
(14:41):
So I sit. There I sit there.
With Mr. Ivy for 5 minutes, listening to this man tell me
his life story. Told me also when he was 16, he
fell off a grain bin. And I mean, he's like a cat with
9 lives. But ambulance gets there, they
load Mr. Ivy up, they proceed onto the hospital with him.
(15:03):
They keep asking me, hey, how are you doing?
I'm like, fine, I'm just a nervous wreck.
I believe I was into having a little bit of shock from the
incident and my watch. Somebody had called my wife.
She left work and she met me there on the scene.
Kind of ironic, too. The girl that they talked to
that day is now my assistant 911director.
(15:27):
Oh. My wow.
The one that took the call that day.
My wife takes me home. I'm still kind of a basket case.
Nerves are shaking and everything like that.
Sheriff's Department calls me and lets me know that Mister
Ivey passed away and route to the hospital.
That's when I really needed help.
I did seek mental health help that day and because it was a
(15:49):
work related incident they sent me and had me evaluated and
that's when they gave me the medical diagnosis that I had
PTSD not only from that wreck, but more than likely from my
first incident that I had hid for that many years.
I just appreciate you being so open and sharing that.
(16:10):
I mean, that's so much courage, sharing both of those
experiences and stories. They were tough incidents.
I look back on them it like I said, Mr. Ivy's wreck and then
that was in 2015. So 7 years later is when I went
to PCISI. Did do some mental health again
(16:32):
with the diagnosis of having PTSD, but again, it's just like
I didn't find my person. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's, I've been to a couple of different people in
the mental health field and justdidn't feel like I had a
connection or I felt like I was getting the diagnosis here, do
this and you'll be better. But when I went to PCIS, you
(16:53):
know how we have everybody sit around in the circle and explain
what one word describes you? Mine was murderer because of Mr.
Ivy's wreck. Then after having my glorious
EMDR session with Mike Reser, I felt like I had 5000 lbs lifted
off of my shoulders and I felt like a completely different
(17:17):
person. You're hitting on like so many,
so many important parts right now.
And I, you know, one of the first things I have to say is
again, kind of quoting what Jennifer said is that thank you.
Thank you for being on here and thank you for being open and
vulnerable. Because for us three, I think we
are, thankfully, we come from a place where sharing our story is
(17:38):
encouraged, right? And it's a beautiful thing.
And for so many of our listeners, they hold it right?
Like they don't, they haven't maybe had that opportunity or
they don't think it's appropriate to share, or they
maybe feel really isolated in what they have gone through.
But I think it's so powerful forthem to hear from you and to be
like, hold on here like this. He can come on this podcast and
(17:59):
he can share and he's gotten help for it.
And he just said he's 5000 lbs lighter, right?
Like there's a lot of positive that comes from that.
And I think that that's so incredible.
And then also one of the anotherreally big thing is talking
about like EMDR and these different types of therapeutic
interventions. And I think we can go on for 20
(18:19):
years about that for sure too. And so everything you're saying
is incredibly powerful. And something that I think I
kind of want to bring to light here too is that we're so heavy
on this podcast. And naturally so we both come
from law enforcement families. So law enforcement is huge on
this podcast, but we're trying to hit everyone.
And here you are saying like this was my life as a
(18:40):
dispatcher. And I do think there is a
disconnect sometimes. And I think that's something
that I've learned from working in this field.
I do think dispatchers don't getrecognized enough for these
incidences, for the stuff that they hear that they go through.
And look at this, you're saying this was personal to me too.
Like this was my own call that Ithat I took, right?
And, and PTSD, it doesn't matterwho you are, it doesn't
(19:03):
discriminate. You can get it no matter what.
And I think that's so incrediblyimportant to share.
And, and I guess I, I wonder if you can bring to light a little
bit too, maybe talking for some dispatchers in terms of like
how, how do I want to word this best is just that I think a lot
of the times people, you guys are kind of forgotten.
And how would you explain it to others, especially like the
(19:25):
police that are listening to letthem know that like it impacts
you guys just as much. Like for me, I've heard a lot of
like you guys don't get an ending sometimes.
There's never, there's never closure.
There's a lot of dispatchers never get the closure for that
call they've taken. I have taken some calls that I
never got closure for and we're kind of left out of it.
You hear the officer involved shootings, you hear the terrible
(19:48):
wrecks involving officers or firefighters or EMS, but not
everybody always overlooked the dispatcher that took that call
and never knew the outcome of that call.
My first incident with the beingincluded was when I worked for
KSP as a dispatcher. We did have a murder suicide
call that came in. On a my shift and that was one
(20:12):
of the first times I'd ever heard of they had the debriefing
and they mandated that the dispatchers that was working on
the day of that call come in andsit through the debriefing.
And this was this was before I went to PCIS.
But it was it was amazing to seethat their chaplain brought in
(20:32):
said, hey, he was talking to theofficers.
He said, guys, let's not forget the dispatchers that took these
calls. He said they heard the screams
before you heard the screams. So a lot of times, and that's
what I really like about PCIS here in the history of it here
in Kentucky, how it started out strictly for law enforcement,
(20:53):
but now they've expanded it overthe last five or six years, I
believe, to where they've included dispatchers along with
law enforcement and PCIS. And it allows those dispatchers
to sit in the room with the officers, hear the officer side
of it, but also the officers getto hear the dispatcher side.
(21:14):
Yeah, I think that's a really powerful thing and I am very
proud that there is so much, much more inclusion when
previously there obviously wasn't.
Some of my experience with getting to work with dispatchers
is how again, kind of Ashley said that forgotten.
But also I work with a lot of dispatchers and have their
(21:36):
ability to do exactly what you said in your story, from going
to one call to another call to flying down an ambulance,
hopping on the ambulance, going into that EMT training that you
have. It's this ability to do 100
things at work once and and how you're just inundated with
things all the time. And you guys are kind of the
(21:56):
organizers. And I hope this is an OK word to
use some, but a little bit of the caretaker like sending
people this way, sending people that way.
And I think what I've also seen is how you guys operate in those
police stations, fire departments, you know, your
dispatch rooms that you guys really are taking care of those
people that are going out on that first line.
(22:19):
I don't know if that's somethingthat you.
Would agree with. You're the expert, Larry, not
me. No, I do agree with that
completely. I mean, it doesn't have to be as
severe of a traumatic call like I took as it is that there is so
much of it that builds up a lot of a lot of dispatchers there.
It's a cumulative trauma. It's not, it's not necessarily
(22:39):
one call that has broke them down.
It is those continuous calls, one right after another of
walking through somebody throughCPR or sending an officer to a
call where that officer maybe gets injured and the dispatcher
takes that onto themselves saying I'm the one that sent
them on that call. But at the same time, they know
(23:00):
it's their job to send that. The amount of loyalty that is
something that I learned so quickly and I will I will never
forget. I got to give that to all of our
dispatchers like it. You guys are so loyal.
Hearing how you guys have the backs of those that are out
there is so incredibly powerful.I mean, you guys do take that on
you take that on as your responsibility and and it's a
(23:23):
beautiful thing, right? But then on the other hand, in
those big situations, that guiltthat comes along with it also
eats a lot of dispatchers a lot and.
And the dispatchers, those are the first ones they're going to
tell you everybody that they dispatch for.
They're not agencies, they're family.
And the dispatcher takes that onis like that's my family that
(23:43):
I'm sending to this call. I just got goosebumps, but I did
too. That's so true.
And here's where I might be a little harsh and I'd love your
feedback. Larry is I think that they are
family and I think like a good family, they take care of
everybody but sometimes forget to take care of themselves.
(24:04):
Exactly, exactly that is. That is 1.
That is 100% true. You called it while ago when you
used the word caretaker. They want to take care of
everybody else, but then they forget themselves.
Yeah, yeah. And that is a really hard, hard
one part of that. I mean, that's such a a
beautiful thing to see somebody's compassion be that
(24:27):
large and the ability to take care of so many.
And then it's the cliche if you have to secure your oxygen mask
before before helping those around you.
I heard that exact paraphrase not too long ago to class that I
was at that talked about helpingother people.
But remember, before you help other people, you have to help
yourself. So that's what I'd like to
(24:47):
encourage with a lot of my dispatchers, Like, hey, you're
doing a great job, but don't forget to take care of yourself
first. Because if you don't take care
of yourself, how can you take take care of others?
I'm totally putting you on the spot.
Here so I know because. You're going to do it?
Answer but no. I was going to do it too.
Don't do it. But so how do we do that?
Like how do we do that for our dispatchers?
(25:09):
Like I want to be there for those dispatchers and help them.
Like what do we do for them to help them learn that skill?
Checking checking in on them quite frequently is what I've
learned. The word resiliency as sticks to
my head of all the trainings I've gone to is resiliency for
them to have. I want to them to bounce back.
If I see one of my dispatchers going through something
(25:31):
difficult, whether it's work related or personal related, I
make sure I check in on them. I want to talk to them, see how
they're doing. We had the serious call here
later earlier on in the year andI checked on those two
dispatchers day in, day out and I kind of got annoyed with me.
I'm like Larry. We're fine.
We're fine, we're fine. I was able to talk one of them
(25:52):
into going to PCIS. She thanked me greatly for it
after she got back. But to check in on them, to just
have that connection with them, to know that, hey, I'm not just
the boss. I've been where you've been.
I've taken those calls that I'vehad that build up on my back, on
my shoulders. Hey, if you just want to talk
about it, just talk about it. Not me smiling in my heart, just
(26:14):
like bursting with pride right now, because that's an, I mean,
I'm sure if you have listened, that's another thing that we
stress on here. And it's just that leadership
role and how important it is as the leader to show that
compassion and that love and to see those like those other
dispatchers as humans, right? But also just how incredibly
strong you are to say, hold on here, like I've been there too,
(26:36):
like being vulnerable and open with them and showing your your
own human side to them, I think is incredibly beautiful.
I feel like I said that 6,000,000 times already today,
but there's no other way to say it, right?
It's just such a powerful process.
But yet we still struggle in this kind of career in this
world with first responders of of leaders understanding.
(26:57):
And I don't need to go down thathole because everybody on here
already knows me about Lamp. Just you saying that is so
refreshing. And so it just makes my heart
burst of pride because that is, I think, a really big way of
keeping people OK. And it's simply saying, are you?
OK, just that knowing that somebody's there to listen for
you, yeah, somebody there to to just let let you vent.
(27:19):
Some days it may have just been a bad call that somebody got
smart with you on the radio thatkind of set you off or
something. Then sometimes that dispatcher
just needs to vent. They just need to let out
whatever's bothering them. And when you really get into
that, why did that really botheryou, then you may really get
into the root of what's really going on.
It may not have been that call. It may have been a call that
(27:42):
they dealt with two weeks ago ormonths ago and this has just
been the fuse that lit it off. So incredibly true.
And one thing that we've talked about obviously is coping and
we've talked about how do you dothat for your other dispatchers?
But is it OK if I ask? And again, I'm putting you back
on the spot here. I guess you are the guest.
So I maybe there's a little fairness to that.
But outside of work, what do youdo to cope?
(28:04):
I mean, is there anything specific that you have found
helpful for you? Not working as much.
Yeah. Oh, work life balance, huh?
Yes, I put a lot more into my family life now.
I didn't realize this until I was really diagnosed with PTSD
of how standoffish I was for several years.
Relationships. I wouldn't let anybody get real
(28:25):
close but when I had my second incident, I was married and it
was also from a lovely lady who is from a very big first
responder family. Her father was chief deputy, her
brother's a paramedic, so she understood that side of it.
I did say earlier I am a Christian.
I love helping other people. I've been a missionary for the
(28:47):
last 15 years. I go Poland every summer.
I was hoping you were going to mention Poland, Larry.
We bring 3 orphanages into town and do a Upward soccer vacation
Bible school type camp with them.
In the 15 years that I've done it, I've watched kids grow up
through these orphanages to become adults.
Some of them are now our translators at camp.
(29:09):
So I've poured myself into more of family and church and tried
because I said get away from work.
I'll give you a small example. At one point in time in my life,
dealing with all the PTSD and everything before I really got
my hands on it, I was a 911 dispatcher.
I ran a food truck. I worked for an auction company.
(29:30):
I would also run a carpet cleaning business in there.
So if I was not at work at my 9:00 to 5:00 job, we'll say I
was at one of my other four jobs, pouring my life into doing
nothing but work, work, work, work.
Talk about the grind, my goodness.
So I buried myself in work. Some people I've listened to
(29:50):
y'all's podcast, know some of the people that have spoke on
here and think very highly of them.
I never got into addiction. I never got into drinking or
drugs or anything like that. My addiction was work.
I poured myself into that instead of pouring myself into a
bottle. That's so true, right?
We, we all have our, our stuff. I mean, in, in each way, like we
(30:11):
can overdo anything. Yes, you know, and I think
that's also important to recognize this.
I feel the same about when people are like working out.
On one hand, we encourage it, right?
We're like, this is such a good way to relieve stress and and
take care of ourselves. On the other hand, it also can
go too far and it's figuring outfor yourself itself where that
line is right, what that balances.
But you're absolutely correct. We can all kind of fall into
(30:33):
things without even recognizing it being more hurtful to us.
And it's easy when it's work, orit's easy when it is something
more positive to say, oh, it's OK, I'm working.
All versions of that I look at is like denial.
If you become an alcoholic, you're denying that you've got
pain that you need to bury Me. I would work all the time so I
could deny that I had pain that I needed to deal with.
(30:55):
I can't say this about PCIS again, after my incident with
the lawn mower wreck, I had a headache for five straight
years. I would go to the doctor, I had
Mris. No, there's nothing wrong with
your head. No concussions, you're fine.
But I have a headache and want to wake up every morning at
4:00. Like I mean, it was like the my
(31:15):
alarm was going off, but I was waking up at 4:00 with
nightmares of the incident. After I went through PCIS and
went through EMDR to this day, and that's almost almost five
years, I'm headache free, nightmare free, no 4:00 AM wake
ups the. Biggest smile?
That's incredible. That's amazing and and I
appreciate, you know, your acknowledgement of being honest
(31:38):
about that work and not having that work life balance.
And again, that impact of our family sometimes when we're so
busy with work or, you know, having that symptom of just
being more withdrawn, that that stuff is impactful to people who
care about us, who want to be close to us and want to interact
and want to spend time. I think that that's really,
really powerful to. Hear it?
(31:59):
Really. It really hit home with me when
I came home from PCIS on that Wednesday afternoon and walked
in the door. My wife looked me square in the
eyes and said, who are you? Oh.
My God. She could see the difference in
my eyes from the moment I walkedin the door.
Wow, that is so powerful. Well, and I'm a wife, we'll
(32:19):
always keep it honest with you guys.
So she really. Yeah, right.
After we got to talking and you can bleep this part out if she
said you've been a real ass the last three or four years.
No, I'm leaving that. I'm leaving it.
I'm leaving. It and she could tell the
difference and we sat down and talked and I told her all about
(32:39):
my experience and she said you. She said I can tell the
difference in you 100%. You know what is what I have to
identify with that though is look at how getting like help
for yourself, right and getting that relief.
Look at how much that impacts your family, but not only that,
that it's a system people. I gosh, I could go on and on how
(33:00):
that just impacts so many other things in life.
Things get better when we work on ourselves, when we feel
better, right in our families tofeel that Love to hear her say
that, I'm sure felt incredible. And I just, I just really need,
I, I want our listeners to understand there's so much, but
not even just our listeners, butthe people who kind of look at
us and are like, oh gosh, mentalhealth for first responders, you
(33:21):
know, hippie dippie stuff. And you're like, no, I'm trying
to create such change and it's for that one person, but it's so
much more. It's all a system, and it's for
everyone else too. I wish all of this had been
around in 1991 when I went through the first thing because
it would have made a completely different thing.
And that's kind of what my passion is now, is trying to
help those people now, the younger generation, to know that
(33:41):
there's not a problem reaching out for mental health, for help
of any type. I grew up with a good old rough
and tough grandfather and it stuck with me.
When I was a little kid, if you would get hurt out on the farm,
he would look you square in eyes.
He said real men don't cry and that stuck with me for years
and. Years.
And it wasn't until I started getting help, I'm like, well, I
(34:04):
hate to say this about my beloved past grandfather, but he
was wrong. Yeah right.
Yeah, heck, my dad rub some dirton it is what I.
Heard all the time. You don't need a Band-Aid rub.
Rub a little dirt in there, you'll be fine.
Yeah, what do we? What do you?
Sorry, do you have more I don't want?
To no go ahead. No.
What do you feel like? Is there something I don't in?
(34:25):
This is a bigger question too. Is there something more that we
can be doing for our dispatchers, either on the
clinician side of things or justin general to be helping making
sure our dispatchers are taken care of?
Kind of like what I'm working onnow is training.
I would like to see more mental health training of several of
the people that we work with. PCIS have always said that we
think PCIS should be mandatory like every five years.
(34:48):
But I would like to see more training for dispatchers on the
mental health side of how to deal with those.
There are a few calls out there.There's a few trainings out
there, but not not as in depth as what I would like.
I think that they should be, butmore training for the.
I think we've kind of started talking about new people when we
hire here, even though we're very, very small agency.
(35:10):
That is one of the first things I talked to them about.
I'm like, OK, when I go through the interview process,
everything I'm like, you're going to handle some probably
terrible calls or these calls could build up on you.
I just want you to know that if they do that, we do have
resources to help you to get youthrough that.
You will not be left alone. So kind of made it a mandatory
(35:32):
thing here that when everybody starts picking their classes for
the mandatory training for the state is I look at what their
past history is. I'm like, OK, you haven't really
had a mental health type class in the last two or three years.
Let's sign you up for this one. And I think that's something
that needs to be more readily available.
I mean, we have 988 for our callers.
(35:53):
We need something like 988 for our dispatchers.
Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else that you
want to share that you want our listeners to hear that you
anything at all? We're just, I'm just so blown
away by this interview right now.
I just want them to know that there's there's people out there
that or have walked the walk andthere's people out there that
would love to help. It just takes that first step of
(36:15):
trusting someone to say, hey, this call hit me this way or
this past couple of months thesecalls have hit me and got me in
a certain place or my personal life is affecting my work life.
I just want people to know that there's people out there that
would bend over backwards to help them and there's no shame
(36:35):
in the game is the best. Way I can say there's no shame
in the game to. Reach out for mental health
health. Larry, thank you so much.
And again, like Ashley started us off, we have been needing
representation from dispatch, yes, 911.
And so I'm so appreciative of you to come on and be that voice
and we want more of those voicesfor sure.
(36:56):
And I think it's amazing in terms of you just carrying that
torch on for those other people and.
I may reach, I may reach back out to y'all too, because I've
also so been tasked working on this small work group to write a
mental health article for MentalHealth Month for APCO.
Oh, I love that. May or April next year.
Absolutely. I've got to write.
(37:17):
I've got to write a 15,000 word magazine article.
Larry, I wrote a whole dissertation.
OK, I. Got you.
I got. You I may need some quotes.
I got it perfect. Pull directly from there.
Take it, my friend. Thank you so, so much, Larry,
for coming on. Thank you for opening the door
(37:38):
to our dispatchers. We still got so much more to
talk about, so we're probably going to have you back, and I
hope that's OK. We are so appreciative.
We can't wait for you guys to hear it.
And we just don't want anyone toforget that.
When the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you.
Law enforcement is huge on this podcast, but we're trying to hit
everyone. And here you are saying, like,
this was my life as a dispatcher.
And I do think there is a disconnect sometimes.
And I think that's something that I've learned from working
in this field. I do think dispatchers don't get
recognized enough for these incidences, for the stuff that
they hear that they go through. And look at this, you're saying
(00:20):
this was personal to me too. Like this was my own call that I
that I took, right? And and PTSD, it doesn't matter
who you are, it doesn't discriminate.
You can get it no matter what. And I think that's so incredibly
important to share and. Hi, welcome back to When the
Call Hits Home. This is Jennifer.
And I'm Ashley, and today we have an incredible guest.
(00:42):
I'm going to change the word. Well, I'm just going to say I
say special every single time, but we're going to say
incredible. And we're extremely excited to
have him on because we're finally covering an area in
which we've been saying we were going to grab.
So before I go way too deep intothis, I'm going to allow you to
introduce yourself. My name is Larry Frazier.
I am the 911 director of a newlyformed River County 911.
(01:04):
We just recently combined Ballard and Carlisle County here
in Kentucky into 1911 center. We took them over almost a year
ago and we are in the final steps of getting everything
completely finished. Their 91 ones now roll over to
our department. So we're covering 2 counties
now. We was able to increase our
staff a little bit too for this.So it's been a very challenging
(01:28):
year over the last year, but I've been the nine woman
director here for Carlisle County before we merged for the
last five years. That's awesome, Larry, and I
appreciate you sharing that. And it is hard making mergers
happen, isn't it? It's been very fun though.
We got a nice $400,000 grant from the State do the merger and
(01:51):
to let us update everything we've got.
So now our little bitty county of a population less than 5000
has now taken over a county withabout 15,000 residents and that
400,000 has allowed us to upgrade everything to next Gen.
911. Wonderful to.
Hear we have video to 911, we have text to 911, we have
(02:13):
translation on 911 that's live. So if we get somebody that calls
in speaking Spanish, our system automatically translates
everything for us. It's really wonderful that's
those real communities need those things too, Larry.
So that's great. So just going to jump in here
and tell me a little bit how andhow being a first responder 911,
(02:35):
how mental health kind of plays into that.
Well, when I first got started, I was the very first 911
director here in Carlisle Countyin 1991.
Wow, when we guys. I wasn't born yet.
Wait a minute. When we first got not we first
got the little red phone that 911 calls came in on.
I have left 911 got into the state.
(02:58):
Back then mental health was not something that was ever a
forefront of it back there. That was early times when PTSD
was really coming out with just being a soldiers problem.
That's something that was never on the forefront.
Never even thought it would cross my mind when I went to
college that I would. Those psychology classes I took
in college I'd actually actuallyput into action sometime in my
(03:20):
life. But I came back into 911 in 2019
after semi retiring from my other job.
Been in first responder my entire life.
My father was sheriff in the 70s, early 70s, like mid 70s.
My brother myself are both 911 directors, both in EMS.
I've been in law enforcement, I've worked with fire
(03:43):
departments. It wasn't until after my second
critical incident that mental health even really came to my
mind, that it's something that first responders needed.
Once I went to PCIS for the first time in 2022, that's when
my eyes were really opened. And I've kind of dove off the
deep end. Since that point, I've taken
(04:04):
several training classes to keepup with PCIS.
I just joined Kentucky's KCCRT, which is Kentucky Community
Crisis Response Team. I'm also vice president of
Kentucky APCO. And with that, it's offered me
the opportunity to be chairman of a small work group study
(04:26):
where we are currently writing the standards, the National
Standards for Peer Support Training.
That's incredible. The help that I got through PCIS
utterly changed my life. That's when it really got into
me that this is something that I'm passionate about, about
something that I wanted to make sure that I could bring it back
(04:49):
home, put it to work here in my local dispatch center, be able
to go to other dispatch centers and help those that are in times
of need. You know, I always like to hear
that and I always think that's so part of the first responder
world is when someone gets help,how much they want to help
somebody else. You know, I have to be honest, I
didn't realize that your dad wasa sheriff.
(05:10):
I didn't. Know either kind of grew up in a
first responder, you know, Ashley and I talk about that in
terms of our experience, is there anything that was unique
about having your dad be the sheriff?
That was probably where we our family was first touched with.
Our first traumatic incident waswhen I was 8 years old.
(05:32):
My dad was working a semi wreck and a drunk driver ran through
the roadblock and clipped our dad from behind, flipped him up
over the top of two or three patrol cars and he was in a he
leg cast for over a year becausemangled his leg in so many ways.
So a lot of the state troopers that worked this area, after dad
(05:54):
got to where he could be a little bit mobile even with his
leg in a cast all the way up, they would come pick dad up for
patrol. They would pick him up, they
would drive him around, take himout on calls, and they just, we
grew up with a house full of lawenforcement officers.
I mean, that's a sad story, but that's I, I definitely
understand what it's like to be kind of surrounded by them.
(06:15):
Both Jennifer and I do and it's,it's really unique.
We talk about that a lot with being a child of a first
responders that like you just, Idon't know how to explain it.
You don't get it unless you get it right.
And and then I think we grow these, we talk about this all
the time. We're pretty resilient children
and we just grow up to like a lot of us wanting to help
others, which is so beautiful. And I think that's what built
the desire of me and my younger brother both to get into to
(06:39):
first responding is was because of our father, our older
brother, he took it a different route and he joined the military
and he he, he retired out of themilitary.
Wow. So something I do want to kind
of because I thought this was awesome.
I hope it's OK that I share thatlike you reached out to us via
our platform, which is exactly what we want to like.
(07:01):
We love that we. Love, I love listening to your
podcast. Thank you so much.
That makes my heart so happy andwe love engaging with with you
guys. So like immediately I was like,
yes, he's got to come on right then We want others to do that
too. And I know one thing that you
had said in your message is thatyou also, and like you just
shared, you've been through yourown critical incidences.
I don't know if you're interested in opening up about
(07:22):
kind of what in your career now,especially 911 dispatch, what
has maybe LED you to this point of being like, I have to be more
involved. And if if you don't want to,
that's OK too. I just know that you were you
were open about that in your message a little.
Bit it. It probably started with my
first critical incident as a 911dispatch dispatcher.
Yesterday marks the 33rd anniversary of that call.
(07:44):
October 28th, 1992. I was working a midnight shift,
our dispatch center. I had two other dispatchers that
worked for me. One of them had been involved in
a car wreck, so everybody was out of place.
So I was pulling double shifts back then the Sheriff's Office
did dispatch from 8:00 to 4:00, and I ran dispatch from 4:00 to
(08:07):
8:00 in the morning. Oh my God.
So I was dispatching one night, and my fiance at the time had
just called me about 7:15, told me that she was getting ready to
get ready. She was in a college at the
time, and she was getting ready to go to her class.
And she said, hey, do you want me to bring you by breakfast?
I said sure. I said I never turned down food.
(08:29):
So she had a son when we met andshe was going to run him by the
babysitter and then she was going to come and visit me at
dispatch before she had to go off to school.
Just like a typical day. We talked, she said she'd be in
route. Everything went down and just
probably 2530 minutes after thatpoint, somewhere's around 73740,
(08:51):
I got a call from a lady close to my residence, said that
somebody had stopped at her house and said that there was a
man and a little boy that had run off the road and had a
wreck. So I go into 911 dispatch mode,
I dispatch out my ambulance service, I dispatch out my
Rescue Squad, call my sheriff, wake him up, get him enroute and
(09:14):
just business as usual. Got everybody headed that way.
They said it was a man and a small child.
So everybody's going that way and things.
People start getting on scene, but they're not talking back to
me very much. And then the babysitter calls
me, said, hey, Larry, have you seen is Alicia coming down to
drop Adam off today? I said, yeah, I spoke to her
(09:34):
about 30 minutes ago. There's a wreck close to our
house. Maybe she's delayed in the
wreck. Then I get another call, and the
lady says, I want to report a wreck down here.
She said, I hear ambulances and sirens in the distance.
But I just wanted to tell you there's a girl and a small child
off in the ravine. It was at that point in time
that every hair on the back of my neck stood up and I knew, I
(09:57):
knew that that was Alicia. So I start getting everybody in
route again. People start going on scene and
I start trying to get information from them.
They won't tell me anything and I just keep getting standby,
standby. What we we've got something.
Then somebody would call and say, hey, we need another medic.
Can you see if you can find another medic to meet us here or
(10:20):
enroute? So I start making the calls.
I still have the recordings of this 911 call.
It's probably not a good mental health thing to admit, but I
have them on my phone and I've listened to them from time to
time. And I've also used them to speak
to others, say, hey, this is what I went through.
But they've got the patients loaded up.
(10:42):
They're getting ready to head tothe emergency room.
The sheriff's on scene. I holler at him.
I said, can you tell me if this is my 1012, which means friend
or family? And he says, well, I'm en route
to dispatch right now. I said no, can you tell me if
this is my 10/12? He said I'm enroute.
And about that time, his wife worked for him in the office and
(11:05):
she says, Larry, I'm here if youneed to leave.
And then I asked the sheriff again, I said, is this my 1012?
And he said, 10/4, I jump out ofI wasn't.
I was also an EMT at the time. I jump out of dispatch, I get
into my truck. I don't know how I caught an
ambulance running code 3, but I caught them.
They radioed them. I got in the back of the
(11:26):
ambulance. And soon as I got in the back of
the ambulance, they turned me and said, here you work on the
child, Adam, and we'll take careof everything else.
The rest is the story is she didn't make it.
She was pretty much the OA on scene, but they run code on her
because of who she was. And I went to counseling after
that, but the counseling I went to at that point in time was
(11:49):
Christian counseling. I am Christian, so that's I
thought was appropriate, but it never really stuck with me of
what transpired. Let's Fast forward almost 25
years to my second incident whenI found out that what had
happened to me that day was thatI had PTSD.
(12:11):
My second incident was not 911 related or first responder
related. I was working my job for the
state of Kentucky as a pretrial officer.
We done interviews on everybody that gets arrested, get their
bonds set, get them a court date.
And I'd been out that morning seeing a couple of people at the
local jail and I was coming backhome to to pick up a cargo
(12:34):
trailer because we were moving into a new office.
And I was going to pick up my trailer so we can move furniture
and supplies to the new office. Was about a mile and 1/2 from my
house. And my neighbor driving was out
mowing his yard. Early morning.
June 9th, 8:10 AM. He was mowing his yard and he
(12:55):
really loved mowing his yard. He did not want lines in his
yard. He was one of those lines back
and forth and Mr. Ivy, to keep those lines, would pull out into
the middle of the road and turn around.
I come down that road. I drove down that road.
Mr. Ivy pulled out in front of me.
I hit him. He went over the top of my Tahoe
(13:17):
when I wrecked, into the trees and into the fence line.
I look up in my rearview mirror and I see Mr. Ivy laying in the
middle of the ground and instantly I thought I'd killed
Mr. Ivy. I get out of the truck.
I run to him. Several of the neighbors are
there. They say hey, we're calling 911.
This man is 91 years old, just been hit by a 4000 LB Chevy
(13:40):
Tahoe. His lawn mower and him both have
been flown up into the air. He sets up in the middle of the
road, starts talking to me asking me how I'm doing, and I'm
a nervous wreck. I had had fractured my arm, so
I'm holding my arm trying to talk to him.
My EMT skills kicked in. I start asking him how he's
(14:01):
doing. I'm running through the
questions to make sure that he hasn't had a head trauma or
anything. He starts answering questions.
The neighbors are calling 911 and he just keeps.
He kept asking me. If he asked me once, he asked me
at least five times. How are you?
I'm like Mr. Ivy, I am fine. I was inside the vehicle.
(14:21):
You're the one that flew throughthere.
How are you doing? And he saw, oh, man, he said.
This is nothing but a few bumps and scratches, he said.
I was an Airborne paratrooper inmy life, He said I've had 96
jumps, He said twice my parachute didn't open quite like
it was supposed to, and he said I hit the ground pretty hard.
He said it was a lot harder thantoday.
(14:41):
So I sit. There I sit there.
With Mr. Ivy for 5 minutes, listening to this man tell me
his life story. Told me also when he was 16, he
fell off a grain bin. And I mean, he's like a cat with
9 lives. But ambulance gets there, they
load Mr. Ivy up, they proceed onto the hospital with him.
(15:03):
They keep asking me, hey, how are you doing?
I'm like, fine, I'm just a nervous wreck.
I believe I was into having a little bit of shock from the
incident and my watch. Somebody had called my wife.
She left work and she met me there on the scene.
Kind of ironic, too. The girl that they talked to
that day is now my assistant 911director.
(15:27):
Oh. My wow.
The one that took the call that day.
My wife takes me home. I'm still kind of a basket case.
Nerves are shaking and everything like that.
Sheriff's Department calls me and lets me know that Mister
Ivey passed away and route to the hospital.
That's when I really needed help.
I did seek mental health help that day and because it was a
(15:49):
work related incident they sent me and had me evaluated and
that's when they gave me the medical diagnosis that I had
PTSD not only from that wreck, but more than likely from my
first incident that I had hid for that many years.
I just appreciate you being so open and sharing that.
(16:10):
I mean, that's so much courage, sharing both of those
experiences and stories. They were tough incidents.
I look back on them it like I said, Mr. Ivy's wreck and then
that was in 2015. So 7 years later is when I went
to PCISI. Did do some mental health again
(16:32):
with the diagnosis of having PTSD, but again, it's just like
I didn't find my person. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's, I've been to a couple of different people in
the mental health field and justdidn't feel like I had a
connection or I felt like I was getting the diagnosis here, do
this and you'll be better. But when I went to PCIS, you
(16:53):
know how we have everybody sit around in the circle and explain
what one word describes you? Mine was murderer because of Mr.
Ivy's wreck. Then after having my glorious
EMDR session with Mike Reser, I felt like I had 5000 lbs lifted
off of my shoulders and I felt like a completely different
(17:17):
person. You're hitting on like so many,
so many important parts right now.
And I, you know, one of the first things I have to say is
again, kind of quoting what Jennifer said is that thank you.
Thank you for being on here and thank you for being open and
vulnerable. Because for us three, I think we
are, thankfully, we come from a place where sharing our story is
(17:38):
encouraged, right? And it's a beautiful thing.
And for so many of our listeners, they hold it right?
Like they don't, they haven't maybe had that opportunity or
they don't think it's appropriate to share, or they
maybe feel really isolated in what they have gone through.
But I think it's so powerful forthem to hear from you and to be
like, hold on here like this. He can come on this podcast and
(17:59):
he can share and he's gotten help for it.
And he just said he's 5000 lbs lighter, right?
Like there's a lot of positive that comes from that.
And I think that that's so incredible.
And then also one of the anotherreally big thing is talking
about like EMDR and these different types of therapeutic
interventions. And I think we can go on for 20
(18:19):
years about that for sure too. And so everything you're saying
is incredibly powerful. And something that I think I
kind of want to bring to light here too is that we're so heavy
on this podcast. And naturally so we both come
from law enforcement families. So law enforcement is huge on
this podcast, but we're trying to hit everyone.
And here you are saying like this was my life as a
(18:40):
dispatcher. And I do think there is a
disconnect sometimes. And I think that's something
that I've learned from working in this field.
I do think dispatchers don't getrecognized enough for these
incidences, for the stuff that they hear that they go through.
And look at this, you're saying this was personal to me too.
Like this was my own call that Ithat I took, right?
And, and PTSD, it doesn't matterwho you are, it doesn't
(19:03):
discriminate. You can get it no matter what.
And I think that's so incrediblyimportant to share.
And, and I guess I, I wonder if you can bring to light a little
bit too, maybe talking for some dispatchers in terms of like
how, how do I want to word this best is just that I think a lot
of the times people, you guys are kind of forgotten.
And how would you explain it to others, especially like the
(19:25):
police that are listening to letthem know that like it impacts
you guys just as much. Like for me, I've heard a lot of
like you guys don't get an ending sometimes.
There's never, there's never closure.
There's a lot of dispatchers never get the closure for that
call they've taken. I have taken some calls that I
never got closure for and we're kind of left out of it.
You hear the officer involved shootings, you hear the terrible
(19:48):
wrecks involving officers or firefighters or EMS, but not
everybody always overlooked the dispatcher that took that call
and never knew the outcome of that call.
My first incident with the beingincluded was when I worked for
KSP as a dispatcher. We did have a murder suicide
call that came in. On a my shift and that was one
(20:12):
of the first times I'd ever heard of they had the debriefing
and they mandated that the dispatchers that was working on
the day of that call come in andsit through the debriefing.
And this was this was before I went to PCIS.
But it was it was amazing to seethat their chaplain brought in
(20:32):
said, hey, he was talking to theofficers.
He said, guys, let's not forget the dispatchers that took these
calls. He said they heard the screams
before you heard the screams. So a lot of times, and that's
what I really like about PCIS here in the history of it here
in Kentucky, how it started out strictly for law enforcement,
(20:53):
but now they've expanded it overthe last five or six years, I
believe, to where they've included dispatchers along with
law enforcement and PCIS. And it allows those dispatchers
to sit in the room with the officers, hear the officer side
of it, but also the officers getto hear the dispatcher side.
(21:14):
Yeah, I think that's a really powerful thing and I am very
proud that there is so much, much more inclusion when
previously there obviously wasn't.
Some of my experience with getting to work with dispatchers
is how again, kind of Ashley said that forgotten.
But also I work with a lot of dispatchers and have their
(21:36):
ability to do exactly what you said in your story, from going
to one call to another call to flying down an ambulance,
hopping on the ambulance, going into that EMT training that you
have. It's this ability to do 100
things at work once and and how you're just inundated with
things all the time. And you guys are kind of the
(21:56):
organizers. And I hope this is an OK word to
use some, but a little bit of the caretaker like sending
people this way, sending people that way.
And I think what I've also seen is how you guys operate in those
police stations, fire departments, you know, your
dispatch rooms that you guys really are taking care of those
people that are going out on that first line.
(22:19):
I don't know if that's somethingthat you.
Would agree with. You're the expert, Larry, not
me. No, I do agree with that
completely. I mean, it doesn't have to be as
severe of a traumatic call like I took as it is that there is so
much of it that builds up a lot of a lot of dispatchers there.
It's a cumulative trauma. It's not, it's not necessarily
(22:39):
one call that has broke them down.
It is those continuous calls, one right after another of
walking through somebody throughCPR or sending an officer to a
call where that officer maybe gets injured and the dispatcher
takes that onto themselves saying I'm the one that sent
them on that call. But at the same time, they know
(23:00):
it's their job to send that. The amount of loyalty that is
something that I learned so quickly and I will I will never
forget. I got to give that to all of our
dispatchers like it. You guys are so loyal.
Hearing how you guys have the backs of those that are out
there is so incredibly powerful.I mean, you guys do take that on
you take that on as your responsibility and and it's a
(23:23):
beautiful thing, right? But then on the other hand, in
those big situations, that guiltthat comes along with it also
eats a lot of dispatchers a lot and.
And the dispatchers, those are the first ones they're going to
tell you everybody that they dispatch for.
They're not agencies, they're family.
And the dispatcher takes that onis like that's my family that
(23:43):
I'm sending to this call. I just got goosebumps, but I did
too. That's so true.
And here's where I might be a little harsh and I'd love your
feedback. Larry is I think that they are
family and I think like a good family, they take care of
everybody but sometimes forget to take care of themselves.
(24:04):
Exactly, exactly that is. That is 1.
That is 100% true. You called it while ago when you
used the word caretaker. They want to take care of
everybody else, but then they forget themselves.
Yeah, yeah. And that is a really hard, hard
one part of that. I mean, that's such a a
beautiful thing to see somebody's compassion be that
(24:27):
large and the ability to take care of so many.
And then it's the cliche if you have to secure your oxygen mask
before before helping those around you.
I heard that exact paraphrase not too long ago to class that I
was at that talked about helpingother people.
But remember, before you help other people, you have to help
yourself. So that's what I'd like to
(24:47):
encourage with a lot of my dispatchers, Like, hey, you're
doing a great job, but don't forget to take care of yourself
first. Because if you don't take care
of yourself, how can you take take care of others?
I'm totally putting you on the spot.
Here so I know because. You're going to do it?
Answer but no. I was going to do it too.
Don't do it. But so how do we do that?
Like how do we do that for our dispatchers?
(25:09):
Like I want to be there for those dispatchers and help them.
Like what do we do for them to help them learn that skill?
Checking checking in on them quite frequently is what I've
learned. The word resiliency as sticks to
my head of all the trainings I've gone to is resiliency for
them to have. I want to them to bounce back.
If I see one of my dispatchers going through something
(25:31):
difficult, whether it's work related or personal related, I
make sure I check in on them. I want to talk to them, see how
they're doing. We had the serious call here
later earlier on in the year andI checked on those two
dispatchers day in, day out and I kind of got annoyed with me.
I'm like Larry. We're fine.
We're fine, we're fine. I was able to talk one of them
(25:52):
into going to PCIS. She thanked me greatly for it
after she got back. But to check in on them, to just
have that connection with them, to know that, hey, I'm not just
the boss. I've been where you've been.
I've taken those calls that I'vehad that build up on my back, on
my shoulders. Hey, if you just want to talk
about it, just talk about it. Not me smiling in my heart, just
(26:14):
like bursting with pride right now, because that's an, I mean,
I'm sure if you have listened, that's another thing that we
stress on here. And it's just that leadership
role and how important it is as the leader to show that
compassion and that love and to see those like those other
dispatchers as humans, right? But also just how incredibly
strong you are to say, hold on here, like I've been there too,
(26:36):
like being vulnerable and open with them and showing your your
own human side to them, I think is incredibly beautiful.
I feel like I said that 6,000,000 times already today,
but there's no other way to say it, right?
It's just such a powerful process.
But yet we still struggle in this kind of career in this
world with first responders of of leaders understanding.
(26:57):
And I don't need to go down thathole because everybody on here
already knows me about Lamp. Just you saying that is so
refreshing. And so it just makes my heart
burst of pride because that is, I think, a really big way of
keeping people OK. And it's simply saying, are you?
OK, just that knowing that somebody's there to listen for
you, yeah, somebody there to to just let let you vent.
(27:19):
Some days it may have just been a bad call that somebody got
smart with you on the radio thatkind of set you off or
something. Then sometimes that dispatcher
just needs to vent. They just need to let out
whatever's bothering them. And when you really get into
that, why did that really botheryou, then you may really get
into the root of what's really going on.
It may not have been that call. It may have been a call that
(27:42):
they dealt with two weeks ago ormonths ago and this has just
been the fuse that lit it off. So incredibly true.
And one thing that we've talked about obviously is coping and
we've talked about how do you dothat for your other dispatchers?
But is it OK if I ask? And again, I'm putting you back
on the spot here. I guess you are the guest.
So I maybe there's a little fairness to that.
But outside of work, what do youdo to cope?
(28:04):
I mean, is there anything specific that you have found
helpful for you? Not working as much.
Yeah. Oh, work life balance, huh?
Yes, I put a lot more into my family life now.
I didn't realize this until I was really diagnosed with PTSD
of how standoffish I was for several years.
Relationships. I wouldn't let anybody get real
(28:25):
close but when I had my second incident, I was married and it
was also from a lovely lady who is from a very big first
responder family. Her father was chief deputy, her
brother's a paramedic, so she understood that side of it.
I did say earlier I am a Christian.
I love helping other people. I've been a missionary for the
(28:47):
last 15 years. I go Poland every summer.
I was hoping you were going to mention Poland, Larry.
We bring 3 orphanages into town and do a Upward soccer vacation
Bible school type camp with them.
In the 15 years that I've done it, I've watched kids grow up
through these orphanages to become adults.
Some of them are now our translators at camp.
(29:09):
So I've poured myself into more of family and church and tried
because I said get away from work.
I'll give you a small example. At one point in time in my life,
dealing with all the PTSD and everything before I really got
my hands on it, I was a 911 dispatcher.
I ran a food truck. I worked for an auction company.
(29:30):
I would also run a carpet cleaning business in there.
So if I was not at work at my 9:00 to 5:00 job, we'll say I
was at one of my other four jobs, pouring my life into doing
nothing but work, work, work, work.
Talk about the grind, my goodness.
So I buried myself in work. Some people I've listened to
(29:50):
y'all's podcast, know some of the people that have spoke on
here and think very highly of them.
I never got into addiction. I never got into drinking or
drugs or anything like that. My addiction was work.
I poured myself into that instead of pouring myself into a
bottle. That's so true, right?
We, we all have our, our stuff. I mean, in, in each way, like we
(30:11):
can overdo anything. Yes, you know, and I think
that's also important to recognize this.
I feel the same about when people are like working out.
On one hand, we encourage it, right?
We're like, this is such a good way to relieve stress and and
take care of ourselves. On the other hand, it also can
go too far and it's figuring outfor yourself itself where that
line is right, what that balances.
But you're absolutely correct. We can all kind of fall into
(30:33):
things without even recognizing it being more hurtful to us.
And it's easy when it's work, orit's easy when it is something
more positive to say, oh, it's OK, I'm working.
All versions of that I look at is like denial.
If you become an alcoholic, you're denying that you've got
pain that you need to bury Me. I would work all the time so I
could deny that I had pain that I needed to deal with.
(30:55):
I can't say this about PCIS again, after my incident with
the lawn mower wreck, I had a headache for five straight
years. I would go to the doctor, I had
Mris. No, there's nothing wrong with
your head. No concussions, you're fine.
But I have a headache and want to wake up every morning at
4:00. Like I mean, it was like the my
(31:15):
alarm was going off, but I was waking up at 4:00 with
nightmares of the incident. After I went through PCIS and
went through EMDR to this day, and that's almost almost five
years, I'm headache free, nightmare free, no 4:00 AM wake
ups the. Biggest smile?
That's incredible. That's amazing and and I
appreciate, you know, your acknowledgement of being honest
(31:38):
about that work and not having that work life balance.
And again, that impact of our family sometimes when we're so
busy with work or, you know, having that symptom of just
being more withdrawn, that that stuff is impactful to people who
care about us, who want to be close to us and want to interact
and want to spend time. I think that that's really,
really powerful to. Hear it?
(31:59):
Really. It really hit home with me when
I came home from PCIS on that Wednesday afternoon and walked
in the door. My wife looked me square in the
eyes and said, who are you? Oh.
My God. She could see the difference in
my eyes from the moment I walkedin the door.
Wow, that is so powerful. Well, and I'm a wife, we'll
(32:19):
always keep it honest with you guys.
So she really. Yeah, right.
After we got to talking and you can bleep this part out if she
said you've been a real ass the last three or four years.
No, I'm leaving that. I'm leaving it.
I'm leaving. It and she could tell the
difference and we sat down and talked and I told her all about
(32:39):
my experience and she said you. She said I can tell the
difference in you 100%. You know what is what I have to
identify with that though is look at how getting like help
for yourself, right and getting that relief.
Look at how much that impacts your family, but not only that,
that it's a system people. I gosh, I could go on and on how
(33:00):
that just impacts so many other things in life.
Things get better when we work on ourselves, when we feel
better, right in our families tofeel that Love to hear her say
that, I'm sure felt incredible. And I just, I just really need,
I, I want our listeners to understand there's so much, but
not even just our listeners, butthe people who kind of look at
us and are like, oh gosh, mentalhealth for first responders, you
(33:21):
know, hippie dippie stuff. And you're like, no, I'm trying
to create such change and it's for that one person, but it's so
much more. It's all a system, and it's for
everyone else too. I wish all of this had been
around in 1991 when I went through the first thing because
it would have made a completely different thing.
And that's kind of what my passion is now, is trying to
help those people now, the younger generation, to know that
(33:41):
there's not a problem reaching out for mental health, for help
of any type. I grew up with a good old rough
and tough grandfather and it stuck with me.
When I was a little kid, if you would get hurt out on the farm,
he would look you square in eyes.
He said real men don't cry and that stuck with me for years
and. Years.
And it wasn't until I started getting help, I'm like, well, I
(34:04):
hate to say this about my beloved past grandfather, but he
was wrong. Yeah right.
Yeah, heck, my dad rub some dirton it is what I.
Heard all the time. You don't need a Band-Aid rub.
Rub a little dirt in there, you'll be fine.
Yeah, what do we? What do you?
Sorry, do you have more I don't want?
To no go ahead. No.
What do you feel like? Is there something I don't in?
(34:25):
This is a bigger question too. Is there something more that we
can be doing for our dispatchers, either on the
clinician side of things or justin general to be helping making
sure our dispatchers are taken care of?
Kind of like what I'm working onnow is training.
I would like to see more mental health training of several of
the people that we work with. PCIS have always said that we
think PCIS should be mandatory like every five years.
(34:48):
But I would like to see more training for dispatchers on the
mental health side of how to deal with those.
There are a few calls out there.There's a few trainings out
there, but not not as in depth as what I would like.
I think that they should be, butmore training for the.
I think we've kind of started talking about new people when we
hire here, even though we're very, very small agency.
(35:10):
That is one of the first things I talked to them about.
I'm like, OK, when I go through the interview process,
everything I'm like, you're going to handle some probably
terrible calls or these calls could build up on you.
I just want you to know that if they do that, we do have
resources to help you to get youthrough that.
You will not be left alone. So kind of made it a mandatory
(35:32):
thing here that when everybody starts picking their classes for
the mandatory training for the state is I look at what their
past history is. I'm like, OK, you haven't really
had a mental health type class in the last two or three years.
Let's sign you up for this one. And I think that's something
that needs to be more readily available.
I mean, we have 988 for our callers.
(35:53):
We need something like 988 for our dispatchers.
Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else that you
want to share that you want our listeners to hear that you
anything at all? We're just, I'm just so blown
away by this interview right now.
I just want them to know that there's there's people out there
that or have walked the walk andthere's people out there that
would love to help. It just takes that first step of
(36:15):
trusting someone to say, hey, this call hit me this way or
this past couple of months thesecalls have hit me and got me in
a certain place or my personal life is affecting my work life.
I just want people to know that there's people out there that
would bend over backwards to help them and there's no shame
(36:35):
in the game is the best. Way I can say there's no shame
in the game to. Reach out for mental health
health. Larry, thank you so much.
And again, like Ashley started us off, we have been needing
representation from dispatch, yes, 911.
And so I'm so appreciative of you to come on and be that voice
and we want more of those voicesfor sure.
(36:56):
And I think it's amazing in terms of you just carrying that
torch on for those other people and.
I may reach, I may reach back out to y'all too, because I've
also so been tasked working on this small work group to write a
mental health article for MentalHealth Month for APCO.
Oh, I love that. May or April next year.
Absolutely. I've got to write.
(37:17):
I've got to write a 15,000 word magazine article.
Larry, I wrote a whole dissertation.
OK, I. Got you.
I got. You I may need some quotes.
I got it perfect. Pull directly from there.
Take it, my friend. Thank you so, so much, Larry,
for coming on. Thank you for opening the door
(37:38):
to our dispatchers. We still got so much more to
talk about, so we're probably going to have you back, and I
hope that's OK. We are so appreciative.
We can't wait for you guys to hear it.
And we just don't want anyone toforget that.
When the call hits home, Jennifer and I are here for you.
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