April 15, 2026 • 30 mins
Hosts:
Dr. Ashlee Gethner, LCSW – Child of a Police Officer
Jennifer Woosley Saylor, LPCC S – Child of a Police Officer
Episode Overview
In this episode of When the Call Hits Home, Jennifer and Ashlee are back after some time away and dive into a real, honest conversation about burnout in first responders. From conference insights to personal experiences, this episode highlights how stress builds and how our bodies often send warning signs before we’re ready to listen.
Ashlee shares her experience attending a international conference and what stood out most, including the science behind decision-making in high-pressure situations and the reality of how quickly first responders are forced to act. The conversation also explores decision fatigue, impatience, and how the job impacts life at home.
The episode takes a personal turn as Ashlee opens up about being forced to slow down after getting sick, missing an important trip, and realizing just how much she had been pushing herself. This leads into an important discussion about how burnout often starts with physical symptoms and why so many first responders ignore those early signs.
Together, Jennifer and Ashlee break down what burnout actually looks like, how it shows up in the body and behavior, and why rest isn’t optional.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
- • How quickly first responders must make life-changing decisions
- • What decision fatigue looks like at work and at home
- • The connection between stress, the brain, and the body
- • Early physical signs of burnout (before emotional symptoms appear)
- • Why first responders often ignore or push through burnout
- • The importance of boundaries, rest, and listening to your body
Key Takeaways:
- • Burnout doesn’t start with a breakdown—it starts with subtle warning signs
- • Physical symptoms (fatigue, illness, headaches) are often the first red flags
- • High-performing individuals are more likely to ignore burnout
- • Rest is not a luxury—it’s necessary for long-term health and performance
- • You can’t pour from an empty cup
Resources & Support:
If you or someone you know is struggling, consider reaching out to a trusted peer, supervisor, or mental health professional who understands first responder culture.
Thank you for being part of our community. From hard-hitting topics to laugh-out-loud moments, we’re here with you because when the call hits home, you’re never alone.
Follow Us:
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- Instagram: @whenthecallhitshome
- Whenthecallhitshome.com
---
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
And I wish I would stop and listen to my body more so first
and realize I need to take thosestep backs.
But I also thought, I know a lotof my first responders do the
same thing. Welcome back to the podcast When
the Call Hits Home. This is Jennifer.
And I'm Ashley, and we're back. We are.
Back and it has been a minute. Ashton and I were just talking
and I was like, what was the last thing we talked about?
(00:22):
Because it's been so long. It almost feels like it was like
last year when we were doing this podcast.
But welcome back everybody. So true.
I mean, welcome back to you Jennifer too.
You've had to like adjust back to life and an amazing vacation.
And so it's exciting that you'reback.
I'm excited that you're back. Well thank you that I feel my
(00:43):
last Co host was a little. Wild.
The wildest card ever. I think that when Nicole hits
home has to have an HR department.
Now after just kidding, we were very thankful that he stepped
in. And I don't know if you just
want to share a little bit aboutthe the conference and what that
experience was like. So Ilita was pretty incredible.
(01:06):
Like I am very, very happy that we went and I'm still very
honored that we were able to present there in person.
I do recommend any of our first responders that they're
listening, law enforcement wise,security wise, corrections wise
to go. There is just so many
opportunities. I was very blown away by their
ability to kind of come full circle and encompass this notion
(01:30):
of like presentations, but have so many where really it should
hit almost everybody in their interest, right?
Oh wow. Oh yeah.
It was like I was so impressed by that.
And then there was a lot of hands on stuff so quick.
There was buses and shuttles taking people to like ranges,
like OK range day and you know, stuff for like tactical, like
(01:52):
Matt time and and it was just very impressive that way.
And then I have to say to the networking opportunity was just
wild. So they had an event every
single night and it was like very fun things to do, like a
huge bags tournament that everybody was into and a cigar
in. Horn Hall is what we call it in
the South. Yeah, and just like that was so.
(02:14):
Impressive. They texted me at one point, I
think I was going to bed and you're like, we're going to
trivia tonight. And I was like, oh, you guys
have like a trivia night? Trivia stuff a thing to Yeah,
yes, yeah, I kind. Of love that that it was like so
engaging like outside of ours too, you know, some conferences
you go to, it's just like show up for the like information and
(02:35):
then go, you know, hide in your hotel room and stuff.
So that's cool that it was really like so engaging like
that of having like so many different talking points and
like they're being there, something there for everybody.
What kind of stood out to you? Like what piques your interest?
Can you tell? I haven't recorded a podcast.
I don't know English anymore. Oh my gosh, I know.
(02:56):
Stumbling over. Rusty both of us are rusty back
into it. Honestly, something that stood
out to me and I was thinking about this a lot.
Well, I big nerd in terms of thebrain why the brain does what it
does right. Like I love talking about the
biology of the brain and in terms of helping our first
responders, but I was able to sit and watch a use of force
panel, which I have no business sitting and watching a use of
(03:18):
force panel. But actually chief was on the
panel. So I wanted to go and so cool
while he did that. And it was actually so eye
opening. And I would like to say this
like in terms of us being a civilian and this notion of
literally how fast it takes these first responders to make
(03:38):
decisions, like, and sometimes these decisions obviously end
kind of catastrophically, like sad, right?
But you know, they were giving examples of different situations
and how they ended and how much time that officer had to make
the decision. And like, the one example was
literally from the time that thecall started to the time there,
it was an OIS, right? So by the time the officer shot
(04:01):
their weapon was 7 seconds. Wow. 7 seconds and like he was
pretty intense to learn like andI feel like I know a lot so I
guess I'm stressing this becauseI learned so much of this notion
of just like really what the brain is doing in those moments
but how you have such little time to make such big decisions,
(04:21):
right. Yeah as like civilians, we don't
take the time to stop and learn these things.
And a lot of the times we have people who watch these videos
and don't write make such comments or don't understand
and. And yet when you break down the
science of it and really look atit for what it is like, it is
kind of wild. So that really, really stood out
to me. I loved that they had a panel of
(04:43):
different people. The one guy was, I don't even
know, like Mr. Genius. I was blown away.
I still think about that often, like how I'm just intrigued by
it. But also it opened my eyes more
so to these uses of force that we see.
And like how a lot of the times,I'm not saying all the time,
again, look, I'm not. But sometimes when it is
(05:03):
justified, it can look very bad and the right thing is happening
for the moment. Well, I think I love the perfect
word to use there. I think of the science of it,
you know, like the science of the brain and decision making
and it again, you and I have talked about in depth, you know,
the different hemispheres of thebrain and where that information
is coming from and, and how the body and the brain are kind of
(05:26):
connected. It's incredible.
But I also think about in terms of that decision, you know, to
bring it back to that piece of like the family.
It's that decision fatigue sometimes too, when we see first
responders that show. Up.
How decision fatigue they have. Don't ask me what decision I
have to make for dinner or what are our plans for this weekend
(05:49):
and things like that. And I know that can be hard for
family members sometimes to see that shut down.
Go ahead. Yeah, no, I have to say this or
else my brain's gonna. Forget it, you're gonna.
Yeah, and I don't know if you guys have experienced that first
responder being like super impatient for you to make a
decision or to move on something, right?
Like I have to get something done.
(06:09):
So do it Like, what do you think?
Right. Or like, let's go, let's go.
I hear that all the time from like especially my spouse is the
first responders like the rush always the rush to move to like
do and I wonder that just hit meas you were talking.
I wonder if this now I have to research this like if that's a
big part of this. I would think that it is either
(06:30):
that fatigue or that almost overactive brain saying no make
the decision. And is that why they then look
at other people sometimes as incompetent when that's not
true? Someone should right time to
figure it out. Right, exactly.
That's a really good point and I'm glad.
And that's incredible. You know, just sit on something
that you're like, hey, I don't know if this is happenable for
(06:52):
me, but I still like step away with learning some science and
some real kind of amazing stuff there.
Yeah, it was, it was very, very cool, very powerful stuff.
And then again, to network with like the other clinicians that
were there and to have those opportunities as well was just
that's so cool to learn what everyone else is doing.
(07:12):
There was so many, I have to saythis to people that came to our
presentation. It was kind of split, but I was
still shocked by that. There was like half of our group
would be like, yes, we have a mental health program or
something related to mental health and half would be like,
we don't. Yeah, but it's.
Bogus, right? And I was still a little bit.
Yeah. And I was still very shocked by
(07:34):
that. Like, you know you, but again,
this is my like my world, right?Like our world is this.
Yeah. So like, but to still hear
people being like, maybe we havenothing.
I'm like. Yeah.
So tell everybody about your presentation.
I know you're humble, but you and Chief presented at ILETA,
which is a big deal to be even invited to present.
(07:56):
So tell us about that. Yeah.
So thank you for saying that. him and I do a really good job
kind of going back and forth with each other.
And the really cool thing is that we don't always agree and
we don't see things eye to eye on everything.
But that was the purpose of thispresentation is how do you
bridge the clinical side of things with admin with having
(08:16):
different perspectives sometimesand having different and just
like we're talking about right decision making and my life is
vastly different than theirs. And how do I find that
compassion sometimes for for ourfirst responders that are
struggling when in reality, likethey see it as them being maybe
irresponsible, right? Like all different things that
can transpire. And so we really tried to
(08:38):
present on how him and I approach those things, the
different ways that I see someone struggling versus maybe
the way he may see them struggling.
And our approaches to that, how to essentially work together to
make a make a program and ours on the infancy stages you'll
we're very honest about that, but we've had to obviously very
(08:59):
much so work together and do it quickly to get to where we are
already at. Right, right.
So that's when we presented on. I think that it was pretty
successful. Again, a little he's going to
listen, a little exhausting keeping that one on track.
But yeah, I think at one point he honestly did OK.
(09:21):
What is it called? I may have said this already,
but like a little Stewart or something like that from maybe
Saturday Night Live. Is that a skit?
Oh, from Mad TV? Maybe.
Yes. Mad TV, There it is.
Yeah. Throwback.
Uh huh. The kick?
Yes, he did that in the middle of our presentation.
Uh huh. Like what?
And then that moment in my in mybrain, I just literally was
(09:44):
like, well, I've lost him. Like I'm gonna just let him ride
this out. I I'm just going to sit here.
Yeah. I.
Don't they made a decision to turn the brain off after that
one? Honestly, I was like, well, it
was our second one. It was our second presentation
and we were near the end, so I was like, yeah, let him ride
that out. Right, right, right.
(10:05):
It was a very interesting topic.You know, it is very cool to see
through his lens because I am sodefiant towards admin when it
comes to mental health. All right, I'm stubborn.
I'm pretty hard hitter with it because I truly think it makes
or breaks programs. Yeah.
Oh, I mean, I, it's very clear it's your passion.
(10:26):
And I think if anybody's I've ever listened to 1 episode of
this podcast, they recognize that that that is something that
you care deeply for. And you guys have done a lot in
a little time with that program,which is incredible.
And I also like this idea and I think it's really important when
we can build something, when we do have different perspectives
(10:47):
or, you know, different priorities and things like that.
I think sometimes we think that we just all need to be on the
same page about everything and that's just not true.
I think we have a lot more to offer when we can build
something that has different sides and thoughts.
And so I'm sure maybe there are heated debates at times and yet
(11:08):
to know like, hey, what's our purpose?
It's to serve so. Yeah, and you know, it's it is
something I think at all of us, you have to be able to meet at a
table and sit and just talk. Right, right, right.
That individual work of keeping an open mind even when you don't
agree with something, right likeis trying to trying to hear them
out and see it through their perspective.
(11:29):
And I think that's what's incredibly important.
Like there are definitely thingswhere I can tell, I can tell
that he maybe doesn't always appreciate me.
Like I will give that push back,right?
Or I will be like, OK, so no, like that's, that's not, you
know, like that's not happening.Or, and he'll look at me kind of
like, did this girl just tell meno, like this, this, you know,
(11:51):
like I'm the chief, like, but atthe end of the day, he also
always takes that step back and is willing to be like, OK,
explain, like give me the explanation.
And I, yeah, most of the time he's like, OK.
Yeah. Yeah, I.
Definitely have been a part of programs before.
I don't know. This is, I'm not saying this is
what you and chief are having back and forth about, but I'm
(12:12):
just thinking about experiences that I have that, you know,
confidentiality means confidentiality.
Like, I don't care if this person is your employee or your
friend or whatever, your cousin,like what's shared in a
confidential setting has to remain confidential.
And and like I again, work with people that went really well.
(12:36):
They weren't even trying to likeI need this information because
I want to gossip. Think it was like they really
cared about the person and really wanted reassurance that
they're OK. And it's just like that's still
breaking confidentiality. Like and you know, I think that
sometimes can be a hard line as a therapist sometimes to say
like and even when like, well, Iknow you can't tell me, but and
(12:57):
it's like there's just no but there like I can't tell you.
Yeah, and I'm incredibly blessed.
Like Chief knows he is so good with that, honestly the whole
department typically. Sorry, like I said, I was like,
that's probably not what. You're talking about no, no, no.
But I like this because it's a great example.
Like not every one of our higherups are perfect with that.
And that's something that we're working on.
(13:18):
And we're still working through the pains of being like, no, so
actually you don't have the right to know that.
You know, like actually, no, this isn't your place.
People don't love that, right? I will say that that's an area
where he knows so much that he can't get involved that he uses
it against me as like a let me pick on you moment.
But he knows that if we break that, then the program doesn't
(13:40):
work like he knows. The program is broken, yeah.
So like his, his new thing with me, Lord is he'll be like, I'll
be like, I have to run a debriefand he'll be like, Oh, I'm
coming. And then I'm standing right
behind you when you do your debrief.
Like because he knows I don't allow, I keep my debrief
separate, right? So if it's a debris for my
deputies and then maybe there was higher ups like sergeants or
(14:02):
something on the call, I'll run one separate for them, but not
coming in that they're not coming in with my guys, right,
or my girls. Like if they have something to
say that is about higher ups, they should have the right to
say it without feeling any sort of way, right?
So I keep it separate, right? And so Chief always makes fun of
me for that. And he'll always be like, oh,
I'm coming in there and I'm like, no, you're not like, you
know, not, you're just picking on me.
(14:23):
And then he laughs and he's like, I know, I know.
But then he's always like, I don't know why you think you can
tell me no, but I know I'm like,goes you're not like we're not.
I mean, I don't and I don't messaround with that.
Like people know that very, verymuch.
So, yeah. I think I scared the living
daylights out of my deputies. The first, like, I'm not
kidding. The first time I ran a debrief,
I went a little hard on the confidentiality part.
(14:46):
So hard, in fact, that afterwards, so funny, they were
like, our Wellness coordinator was just trying to get like, did
it go OK? Like, like, because it was
literally our first debrief, like, yeah, that our department
has ran. So she wasn't trying to ask what
was said in there or anything. She was just trying to be like,
good experience, bad experience.Yeah, right.
Like thumbs up, thumbs down. And they would not.
(15:09):
I can't even say, can you? Please talk to them about like,
because she was like, what was I'm like, I went real hard like.
Chat clones on Chat clones on. About it afterwards, I'm like,
Oh my God, sorry everybody. But other than that, like, I
just think it's just when we have situations occur or when
we, you know, like, I think one big thing is that the difference
(15:32):
between caring and confident, right?
Like there are moments where ourhigher ups are like, Hey, they
know something happened, right? And so then they send the
Wellness team and it's, it is hard to be like, so you're not
going to tell me if they're OK? Like you're not going to tell me
if you know. And it's like, right, no fact.
Like the only thing that I ever give back is just like numbers,
(15:54):
right? Like stats.
So hey, in the in the month of March, we had three debriefs and
I had one critical like call out, meaning like one of our
deputies wasn't OK. And I went and handled it.
But I'm not telling you who, andI'm not telling you you can get
a number, but. Right.
Gotcha. Yeah, it's a hard thing, but
it's, I mean, it sounds like it's going really well and like
(16:16):
it's cool that you guys got to present what you guys are doing
there and help those programs don't have anybody to say, hey,
this is important. Yeah, for sure.
And I think we want to take that.
We definitely learned from this conference like, yeah, would
improve upon in terms of if we ever get to do it again, which I
do think they want us back next year to do it again.
So you can teach like your curriculum 2 years in a row
(16:38):
there. Nice.
So I think that that's going to be the plan again, right?
Hopefully all said and done. So that's exciting.
And then he wants you and I to present on something.
I guess the whole week I'm just going to be presenting.
Which I love that you guys went and now we have homework right
so. Always, always, I lead us really
(16:58):
well. It's really cool.
So we did talk a little bit about, hey, we should talk about
spring is in the air and seasonal changes and sometimes
that even means like not feeling100%.
I don't know if you want to talkabout that still or.
Yeah, I do. So just I think on the topic of
Ilita, this kind of hit me too. So we told everybody that I was
(17:22):
going to go to Nashville. So that connection was that
Nashville PD had been like, comecheck out our our mental health
program and I was so. Excited.
Yeah. Yes.
And Chief was like, I was just so excited and Saturday I'm
getting ready. I'm supposed to leave for
Nashville on Sunday and come back on a Wednesday, right?
And I'm getting ready on Saturday and all of a sudden
(17:43):
like mid getting ready, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to
sleep. Like I have to take a nap.
Like it was like my eyes were not staying open.
Like I, it was just so bizarre. It hit me like out of nowhere.
I mean, sometimes I could be tired and nap, but not like
this, like this was my control. And I fell asleep on the couch
like and I never do that. And I woke up and I was like, oh
(18:08):
man, like I got to keep going. I got to keep going.
I got to, I got to get my nails done.
I got to look good, right? Like I go get my nails done and
I'm like freezing, like I'm likegosh, like ship ring, I'm like,
what is going on? Like it's it was cold outside
though, so I was like, oh, it's just cold everywhere, right.
And I like I right after I get my nails done, I was like, I
need to go get I like I'm a sucker for snacky snacks while
(18:31):
I'm driving. So I was like, I got to go to
Walmart fast. I'm going to get some some Rd.
snacks and I couldn't do it. Like I was like, I have not like
I feel so zapped. I was like, I can't, I can't do
it. And sure enough, I get home and
like it just progressed and I take my temperature and it's
like hey, 1021023102.4 like it just keeps going up and I'm like
(18:54):
whoa. And I take meds and like it
would go down to like 99 but it would the minute it would wear
off, it would go back up and I could not even stay awake.
Like it was like I would be in and out of sleep, right?
Didn't like get constant sleep because when you have a fever
that high you just don't. Feel.
Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna rest.
Yeah, yeah. So but I couldn't also couldn't
(19:16):
stay awake. So like I was supposed to leave
Sunday and I was like, if anybody knows me, so I was.
In I know you can, I say. Yeah, like you.
Know her you. But Ashley commits, she commits.
There is no like backing out if we say and we were actually
supposed to record on Sunday evening.
And I forgot. You were gonna get to Nashville,
(19:37):
get settled in your hotel room, and then we were gonna record
and I text and I'm like, hey. And you're like, oh, my
goodness. And I was like, so you didn't
even go to Nashville. And you're like, no, which I was
glad you didn't go to Nashville.How miserable to be sick in
another place. But I know it meant like, it was
a huge deal for you. Like I have to like, say I can't
(19:59):
go. Yeah and I think I was
reflecting on it cuz of course Ihad to tell the group that went
like, hey, I can't go but can you guys, you know, go still to
this to this right, You know, visit and of course got made fun
of per usual someone yeah yeah, definition of what it meant to
fake and. Illness to get out of
responsibility, but I. As much as that's a joke, I know
(20:21):
that probably. Gotcha.
Killed. I'm not me like crying with a
one O 2 fever at home because all I wanted to do was be there
and I'm really bad at telling myself that it is OK to be sick
and to not do something. I mean terrible.
About this I read this book. I read this book over Christmas
(20:41):
break and it's called EverythingIs Tuberculosis.
Such a random. It was such a good book.
I highly recommend that. I wish I could, I'd have to
Google the author's name, but one of the things I was talking
about and I was like, this is sointeresting, is like the
morality of illness and how, youknow, there is this like
(21:02):
subconscious part of us as humans that if somebody's sick,
then they're weak. Yes.
When illness happens to everybody, unfortunately, some
more than others too. Isn't that wild?
No, I love that because it's truly such a something that I
have to work through and I don't, I think it does stem from
(21:23):
my dad, but I don't ever think he meant this.
Maybe to go as far as I take it,but like my dad was very much
that mentality and we've talked about this before.
A lot of first responders are this like rub some dirt on it
like, yeah, you even though you're sick, you're still going
to school. You're.
Getting I'm sure you're out in the yard getting dirt for that
one, right? To attempt to try to.
(21:45):
Like, like, like he's very much so like that.
And I just have it in my head that if I am sick and I am
missing something, I'm failing. Yeah.
And I tell myself that. And it's the absolute worst
feeling in the world because I feel like I'm never actually
resting. I'm never OK because my brains
constantly like, are you serious?
(22:06):
Like you're, you have all these things to get done and now you
can't even function like this one was so bad though, that I
honestly didn't even have the choice.
I will work through sickness allthe time.
But yeah, of course, that's exactly why I wanted to bring
this up because I think that a lot of our first responders,
myself included, I am not a first responder.
But in terms of burning it too much at both ends and I get
(22:29):
called out for that a lot. And I will give my very last
everything to something like I. I mean, almost like your Co host
on this podcast text to you and it's like take it easy.
We can see, you know, we can reschedule, we can do these
things. Exactly.
I just don't know, but I think that people what I, what I want
to stress here is like if you are, I get sick kind of often
(22:53):
not not to this degree where I'mout out, but like.
Finally, did get a diagnosis or do you want to share your
diagnosis? Oh, yeah, it was.
It was a. Little double that you.
Got I got a little double tap ofthe flu and strep throat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it that you just didn't
get one. You wanted to make sure to get
both of them. Heaven.
Forbid you just struggle with one what?
(23:16):
Who? So the flu and strep at the same
time. You want to know what else?
So the somebody was like, one ofmy friends was like, how do you
know you're feeling better? And I was like, I feel like I
can be a sarcastic pain in the ass again.
Let's go like. I'm healed.
I'm healed the only. Way I can survive this career so
without that I'm so vulnerable, but I think that I, I wanted to
(23:40):
bring this up and we don't have to spend all this time on it,
but this notion of that not our bodies, the physical symptoms
that we get like it will tell uswhen we are stressed or when we
are overloaded in the brain. And I think that we don't spend
enough time we try to jump on 1st responders who are
struggling. I say it's like a second tier
(24:02):
and I, this is exactly what I presented out in Ileta too is
these three tiers different levels essentially of someone of
crisis indicators, right? And I think that we really much
so see them in the second more so of this like isolation
withdraw are fit. The families will start to say
you're so irritable all the time.
But really in that first here wecould see some of these things
(24:24):
starting to occur in terms of feeling a little bit more
irritable or just not sleeping. But one of the main things in
that very first level right of acrisis indicator of someone
going down a path of really struggling is physical symptoms,
right? And so maybe it's being more
aware of yourself in terms of amI having a lot more physical
symptoms? But also maybe if it's observing
(24:46):
people around you, are they complaining about things a lot?
Yeah, are. You know.
Like always having a headache. Or it is stomach issues?
Stomach is huge. Yeah, well, not adjusted system
is always thrown off when our adrenalines and our Olympic
systems out of lack whatever. But I don't know, like I guess
(25:08):
my little nerdy self, as sick asI was, did actually, and
everyone should be proud of me. One, I didn't go to Nashville at
all. Of course, I told myself on
Sunday. Just feel really messed up.
Monday like see Monday if you can still make it ash and that
then at like noon on Sunday, I was like, what am I doing?
I'm going to stress myself out. I didn't go, but I did take the
(25:30):
time to reflect on people cuz chief immediately sent me a text
message and said, oh look what happens when you start to do too
much, right? And at first I was offended like
I was a little bit like, man, sell that to me one more time
like. And then and then I was like,
gosh Dang it, I know it's true. And I wish I would stop and
(25:51):
listen to my body more so first and realize I need to take those
step backs. But I also thought, I know a lot
of my first responders do the same thing.
We go, go, go, go, go. You know, my one of my college
roommates used to say, you know,you can sleep when you're dead
like this. We.
Hear that all the time. Yeah.
(26:11):
And, you know, I think, and I think about, you know, growing
up and I'm looking at my To Do List right here with so many
things that need to be knocked off of it.
But we are go, go, go, go, go. And there's a lot to do and
there's a lot to get done. And I don't know about you, but
I feel good when I get those things done.
And yet rest is important. And I'll share this.
(26:34):
You know, we were out of town and, and on vacation and it was
a big push for my husband's likework right before we left and,
and all the things that you haveto get done before you go on
vacation and stuff. And we were there and we were
having a good time and we got toa place that we were going to
stay for a few more nights because we traveled throughout
(26:57):
and we were in Portugal. So we traveled throughout
Portugal and we got to go to thebeach and we were going to be
there for a couple days. And that first time at the
beach, like he just started not feeling well.
And it was almost like all that kind of adrenaline dump in a way
of like, you know, all that stuff and finally kind of
getting to be still and your body's kind of playing catch up
(27:18):
a little bit. And I'm not a medical doctor.
And, you know, we were on an airplane where you're sharing
air with all kinds of people, all those kind of things that
can happen and why we get sick. But there is, I mean, it is
important to allow our bodies torest.
And when we go, go, go, sometimes it's just like, I'm
like, what a metaphor would be. You know, it's almost like when
(27:39):
we finally get to stop, it's almost like we have whiplash.
Like, oh, I get to stop. And like, I don't know, like the
stress of everything is still kind of playing inside of our
bodies. Yeah, yeah, yes, I could see
that big time. I think it's like that.
It's I've I also have heard thisterm and I think it's so true
that like if you don't rest, your body's going to force you
(28:00):
to. Yeah, exactly.
That's a great way to put it too.
And, you know, there's a lot of vacations that get ready to
happen in summer. And so just be thinking about
that because it is important to rest and to get away.
And one thing, whenever I, I teach a class, I kind of always
(28:22):
ask people if like, they check their emails while they're on
vacation. And I can't tell you how many
people like raise their hands. And it's just like, that's your
time. That's your time.
It does suck to come back to 1000 emails.
It does like, it's the worst. In fact, you know, we got back
three weeks ago, 4 weeks ago. And Clinton said, was it
(28:45):
yesterday or the day before you?I finally got up on my emails,
you know, like, it takes a long time to get caught up, but
you'll get caught up. That time away, it's time away.
Enjoy it. But I mean, that's a different
episode about boundaries. I don't know.
But I just want people to enjoy their vacations, you know?
(29:05):
That's, I mean, that's my big take away from all this is just
like, and then it was just something I was thinking about
that I was like, I really want to share on the podcast.
Is this notion of like, hey, like, honestly, those physical
symptoms may be really our firstline of defense of recognizing,
like, I need to do something forme.
Yeah. I need to.
Take a step back. Well, and how important it is to
listen to our bodies. Yeah, you know, Yeah.
(29:28):
And take good care of them. What else for?
Today, and that's what I had andI'm excited that we're tech and
we I'm. Excited that we're back too.
And again, you know, we were trying to record earlier this
week and poor Ashley, you know, if I had a letter, I'm sure she
would have tried to still have us meet.
No, you're pretty good. Like, can we just do it another
time? I.
Don't know that we would have gotten.
(29:50):
I don't even know if I would have made any it.
Would have just been a a literalfever dream.
Like, yeah. Quit here, I swear.
But no, I'm excited. Exciting things still coming.
Of course, we're keeping this rolling and we're just very
thankful for everybody and to get back on track.
Absolutely. All right.
Well, when the call hits home, you guys know Jennifer and I are
(30:11):
here for you. Thank you.
Have a good one. Bye.
And I wish I would stop and listen to my body more so first
and realize I need to take thosestep backs.
But I also thought, I know a lotof my first responders do the
same thing. Welcome back to the podcast When
the Call Hits Home. This is Jennifer.
And I'm Ashley, and we're back. We are.
Back and it has been a minute. Ashton and I were just talking
and I was like, what was the last thing we talked about?
(00:22):
Because it's been so long. It almost feels like it was like
last year when we were doing this podcast.
But welcome back everybody. So true.
I mean, welcome back to you Jennifer too.
You've had to like adjust back to life and an amazing vacation.
And so it's exciting that you'reback.
I'm excited that you're back. Well thank you that I feel my
(00:43):
last Co host was a little. Wild.
The wildest card ever. I think that when Nicole hits
home has to have an HR department.
Now after just kidding, we were very thankful that he stepped
in. And I don't know if you just
want to share a little bit aboutthe the conference and what that
experience was like. So Ilita was pretty incredible.
(01:06):
Like I am very, very happy that we went and I'm still very
honored that we were able to present there in person.
I do recommend any of our first responders that they're
listening, law enforcement wise,security wise, corrections wise
to go. There is just so many
opportunities. I was very blown away by their
ability to kind of come full circle and encompass this notion
(01:30):
of like presentations, but have so many where really it should
hit almost everybody in their interest, right?
Oh wow. Oh yeah.
It was like I was so impressed by that.
And then there was a lot of hands on stuff so quick.
There was buses and shuttles taking people to like ranges,
like OK range day and you know, stuff for like tactical, like
(01:52):
Matt time and and it was just very impressive that way.
And then I have to say to the networking opportunity was just
wild. So they had an event every
single night and it was like very fun things to do, like a
huge bags tournament that everybody was into and a cigar
in. Horn Hall is what we call it in
the South. Yeah, and just like that was so.
(02:14):
Impressive. They texted me at one point, I
think I was going to bed and you're like, we're going to
trivia tonight. And I was like, oh, you guys
have like a trivia night? Trivia stuff a thing to Yeah,
yes, yeah, I kind. Of love that that it was like so
engaging like outside of ours too, you know, some conferences
you go to, it's just like show up for the like information and
(02:35):
then go, you know, hide in your hotel room and stuff.
So that's cool that it was really like so engaging like
that of having like so many different talking points and
like they're being there, something there for everybody.
What kind of stood out to you? Like what piques your interest?
Can you tell? I haven't recorded a podcast.
I don't know English anymore. Oh my gosh, I know.
(02:56):
Stumbling over. Rusty both of us are rusty back
into it. Honestly, something that stood
out to me and I was thinking about this a lot.
Well, I big nerd in terms of thebrain why the brain does what it
does right. Like I love talking about the
biology of the brain and in terms of helping our first
responders, but I was able to sit and watch a use of force
panel, which I have no business sitting and watching a use of
(03:18):
force panel. But actually chief was on the
panel. So I wanted to go and so cool
while he did that. And it was actually so eye
opening. And I would like to say this
like in terms of us being a civilian and this notion of
literally how fast it takes these first responders to make
(03:38):
decisions, like, and sometimes these decisions obviously end
kind of catastrophically, like sad, right?
But you know, they were giving examples of different situations
and how they ended and how much time that officer had to make
the decision. And like, the one example was
literally from the time that thecall started to the time there,
it was an OIS, right? So by the time the officer shot
(04:01):
their weapon was 7 seconds. Wow. 7 seconds and like he was
pretty intense to learn like andI feel like I know a lot so I
guess I'm stressing this becauseI learned so much of this notion
of just like really what the brain is doing in those moments
but how you have such little time to make such big decisions,
(04:21):
right. Yeah as like civilians, we don't
take the time to stop and learn these things.
And a lot of the times we have people who watch these videos
and don't write make such comments or don't understand
and. And yet when you break down the
science of it and really look atit for what it is like, it is
kind of wild. So that really, really stood out
to me. I loved that they had a panel of
(04:43):
different people. The one guy was, I don't even
know, like Mr. Genius. I was blown away.
I still think about that often, like how I'm just intrigued by
it. But also it opened my eyes more
so to these uses of force that we see.
And like how a lot of the times,I'm not saying all the time,
again, look, I'm not. But sometimes when it is
(05:03):
justified, it can look very bad and the right thing is happening
for the moment. Well, I think I love the perfect
word to use there. I think of the science of it,
you know, like the science of the brain and decision making
and it again, you and I have talked about in depth, you know,
the different hemispheres of thebrain and where that information
is coming from and, and how the body and the brain are kind of
(05:26):
connected. It's incredible.
But I also think about in terms of that decision, you know, to
bring it back to that piece of like the family.
It's that decision fatigue sometimes too, when we see first
responders that show. Up.
How decision fatigue they have. Don't ask me what decision I
have to make for dinner or what are our plans for this weekend
(05:49):
and things like that. And I know that can be hard for
family members sometimes to see that shut down.
Go ahead. Yeah, no, I have to say this or
else my brain's gonna. Forget it, you're gonna.
Yeah, and I don't know if you guys have experienced that first
responder being like super impatient for you to make a
decision or to move on something, right?
Like I have to get something done.
(06:09):
So do it Like, what do you think?
Right. Or like, let's go, let's go.
I hear that all the time from like especially my spouse is the
first responders like the rush always the rush to move to like
do and I wonder that just hit meas you were talking.
I wonder if this now I have to research this like if that's a
big part of this. I would think that it is either
(06:30):
that fatigue or that almost overactive brain saying no make
the decision. And is that why they then look
at other people sometimes as incompetent when that's not
true? Someone should right time to
figure it out. Right, exactly.
That's a really good point and I'm glad.
And that's incredible. You know, just sit on something
that you're like, hey, I don't know if this is happenable for
(06:52):
me, but I still like step away with learning some science and
some real kind of amazing stuff there.
Yeah, it was, it was very, very cool, very powerful stuff.
And then again, to network with like the other clinicians that
were there and to have those opportunities as well was just
that's so cool to learn what everyone else is doing.
(07:12):
There was so many, I have to saythis to people that came to our
presentation. It was kind of split, but I was
still shocked by that. There was like half of our group
would be like, yes, we have a mental health program or
something related to mental health and half would be like,
we don't. Yeah, but it's.
Bogus, right? And I was still a little bit.
Yeah. And I was still very shocked by
(07:34):
that. Like, you know you, but again,
this is my like my world, right?Like our world is this.
Yeah. So like, but to still hear
people being like, maybe we havenothing.
I'm like. Yeah.
So tell everybody about your presentation.
I know you're humble, but you and Chief presented at ILETA,
which is a big deal to be even invited to present.
(07:56):
So tell us about that. Yeah.
So thank you for saying that. him and I do a really good job
kind of going back and forth with each other.
And the really cool thing is that we don't always agree and
we don't see things eye to eye on everything.
But that was the purpose of thispresentation is how do you
bridge the clinical side of things with admin with having
(08:16):
different perspectives sometimesand having different and just
like we're talking about right decision making and my life is
vastly different than theirs. And how do I find that
compassion sometimes for for ourfirst responders that are
struggling when in reality, likethey see it as them being maybe
irresponsible, right? Like all different things that
can transpire. And so we really tried to
(08:38):
present on how him and I approach those things, the
different ways that I see someone struggling versus maybe
the way he may see them struggling.
And our approaches to that, how to essentially work together to
make a make a program and ours on the infancy stages you'll
we're very honest about that, but we've had to obviously very
(08:59):
much so work together and do it quickly to get to where we are
already at. Right, right.
So that's when we presented on. I think that it was pretty
successful. Again, a little he's going to
listen, a little exhausting keeping that one on track.
But yeah, I think at one point he honestly did OK.
(09:21):
What is it called? I may have said this already,
but like a little Stewart or something like that from maybe
Saturday Night Live. Is that a skit?
Oh, from Mad TV? Maybe.
Yes. Mad TV, There it is.
Yeah. Throwback.
Uh huh. The kick?
Yes, he did that in the middle of our presentation.
Uh huh. Like what?
And then that moment in my in mybrain, I just literally was
(09:44):
like, well, I've lost him. Like I'm gonna just let him ride
this out. I I'm just going to sit here.
Yeah. I.
Don't they made a decision to turn the brain off after that
one? Honestly, I was like, well, it
was our second one. It was our second presentation
and we were near the end, so I was like, yeah, let him ride
that out. Right, right, right.
(10:05):
It was a very interesting topic.You know, it is very cool to see
through his lens because I am sodefiant towards admin when it
comes to mental health. All right, I'm stubborn.
I'm pretty hard hitter with it because I truly think it makes
or breaks programs. Yeah.
Oh, I mean, I, it's very clear it's your passion.
(10:26):
And I think if anybody's I've ever listened to 1 episode of
this podcast, they recognize that that that is something that
you care deeply for. And you guys have done a lot in
a little time with that program,which is incredible.
And I also like this idea and I think it's really important when
we can build something, when we do have different perspectives
(10:47):
or, you know, different priorities and things like that.
I think sometimes we think that we just all need to be on the
same page about everything and that's just not true.
I think we have a lot more to offer when we can build
something that has different sides and thoughts.
And so I'm sure maybe there are heated debates at times and yet
(11:08):
to know like, hey, what's our purpose?
It's to serve so. Yeah, and you know, it's it is
something I think at all of us, you have to be able to meet at a
table and sit and just talk. Right, right, right.
That individual work of keeping an open mind even when you don't
agree with something, right likeis trying to trying to hear them
out and see it through their perspective.
(11:29):
And I think that's what's incredibly important.
Like there are definitely thingswhere I can tell, I can tell
that he maybe doesn't always appreciate me.
Like I will give that push back,right?
Or I will be like, OK, so no, like that's, that's not, you
know, like that's not happening.Or, and he'll look at me kind of
like, did this girl just tell meno, like this, this, you know,
(11:51):
like I'm the chief, like, but atthe end of the day, he also
always takes that step back and is willing to be like, OK,
explain, like give me the explanation.
And I, yeah, most of the time he's like, OK.
Yeah. Yeah, I.
Definitely have been a part of programs before.
I don't know. This is, I'm not saying this is
what you and chief are having back and forth about, but I'm
(12:12):
just thinking about experiences that I have that, you know,
confidentiality means confidentiality.
Like, I don't care if this person is your employee or your
friend or whatever, your cousin,like what's shared in a
confidential setting has to remain confidential.
And and like I again, work with people that went really well.
(12:36):
They weren't even trying to likeI need this information because
I want to gossip. Think it was like they really
cared about the person and really wanted reassurance that
they're OK. And it's just like that's still
breaking confidentiality. Like and you know, I think that
sometimes can be a hard line as a therapist sometimes to say
like and even when like, well, Iknow you can't tell me, but and
(12:57):
it's like there's just no but there like I can't tell you.
Yeah, and I'm incredibly blessed.
Like Chief knows he is so good with that, honestly the whole
department typically. Sorry, like I said, I was like,
that's probably not what. You're talking about no, no, no.
But I like this because it's a great example.
Like not every one of our higherups are perfect with that.
And that's something that we're working on.
(13:18):
And we're still working through the pains of being like, no, so
actually you don't have the right to know that.
You know, like actually, no, this isn't your place.
People don't love that, right? I will say that that's an area
where he knows so much that he can't get involved that he uses
it against me as like a let me pick on you moment.
But he knows that if we break that, then the program doesn't
(13:40):
work like he knows. The program is broken, yeah.
So like his, his new thing with me, Lord is he'll be like, I'll
be like, I have to run a debriefand he'll be like, Oh, I'm
coming. And then I'm standing right
behind you when you do your debrief.
Like because he knows I don't allow, I keep my debrief
separate, right? So if it's a debris for my
deputies and then maybe there was higher ups like sergeants or
(14:02):
something on the call, I'll run one separate for them, but not
coming in that they're not coming in with my guys, right,
or my girls. Like if they have something to
say that is about higher ups, they should have the right to
say it without feeling any sort of way, right?
So I keep it separate, right? And so Chief always makes fun of
me for that. And he'll always be like, oh,
I'm coming in there and I'm like, no, you're not like, you
know, not, you're just picking on me.
(14:23):
And then he laughs and he's like, I know, I know.
But then he's always like, I don't know why you think you can
tell me no, but I know I'm like,goes you're not like we're not.
I mean, I don't and I don't messaround with that.
Like people know that very, verymuch.
So, yeah. I think I scared the living
daylights out of my deputies. The first, like, I'm not
kidding. The first time I ran a debrief,
I went a little hard on the confidentiality part.
(14:46):
So hard, in fact, that afterwards, so funny, they were
like, our Wellness coordinator was just trying to get like, did
it go OK? Like, like, because it was
literally our first debrief, like, yeah, that our department
has ran. So she wasn't trying to ask what
was said in there or anything. She was just trying to be like,
good experience, bad experience.Yeah, right.
Like thumbs up, thumbs down. And they would not.
(15:09):
I can't even say, can you? Please talk to them about like,
because she was like, what was I'm like, I went real hard like.
Chat clones on Chat clones on. About it afterwards, I'm like,
Oh my God, sorry everybody. But other than that, like, I
just think it's just when we have situations occur or when
we, you know, like, I think one big thing is that the difference
(15:32):
between caring and confident, right?
Like there are moments where ourhigher ups are like, Hey, they
know something happened, right? And so then they send the
Wellness team and it's, it is hard to be like, so you're not
going to tell me if they're OK? Like you're not going to tell me
if you know. And it's like, right, no fact.
Like the only thing that I ever give back is just like numbers,
(15:54):
right? Like stats.
So hey, in the in the month of March, we had three debriefs and
I had one critical like call out, meaning like one of our
deputies wasn't OK. And I went and handled it.
But I'm not telling you who, andI'm not telling you you can get
a number, but. Right.
Gotcha. Yeah, it's a hard thing, but
it's, I mean, it sounds like it's going really well and like
(16:16):
it's cool that you guys got to present what you guys are doing
there and help those programs don't have anybody to say, hey,
this is important. Yeah, for sure.
And I think we want to take that.
We definitely learned from this conference like, yeah, would
improve upon in terms of if we ever get to do it again, which I
do think they want us back next year to do it again.
So you can teach like your curriculum 2 years in a row
(16:38):
there. Nice.
So I think that that's going to be the plan again, right?
Hopefully all said and done. So that's exciting.
And then he wants you and I to present on something.
I guess the whole week I'm just going to be presenting.
Which I love that you guys went and now we have homework right
so. Always, always, I lead us really
(16:58):
well. It's really cool.
So we did talk a little bit about, hey, we should talk about
spring is in the air and seasonal changes and sometimes
that even means like not feeling100%.
I don't know if you want to talkabout that still or.
Yeah, I do. So just I think on the topic of
Ilita, this kind of hit me too. So we told everybody that I was
(17:22):
going to go to Nashville. So that connection was that
Nashville PD had been like, comecheck out our our mental health
program and I was so. Excited.
Yeah. Yes.
And Chief was like, I was just so excited and Saturday I'm
getting ready. I'm supposed to leave for
Nashville on Sunday and come back on a Wednesday, right?
And I'm getting ready on Saturday and all of a sudden
(17:43):
like mid getting ready, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to
sleep. Like I have to take a nap.
Like it was like my eyes were not staying open.
Like I, it was just so bizarre. It hit me like out of nowhere.
I mean, sometimes I could be tired and nap, but not like
this, like this was my control. And I fell asleep on the couch
like and I never do that. And I woke up and I was like, oh
(18:08):
man, like I got to keep going. I got to keep going.
I got to, I got to get my nails done.
I got to look good, right? Like I go get my nails done and
I'm like freezing, like I'm likegosh, like ship ring, I'm like,
what is going on? Like it's it was cold outside
though, so I was like, oh, it's just cold everywhere, right.
And I like I right after I get my nails done, I was like, I
need to go get I like I'm a sucker for snacky snacks while
(18:31):
I'm driving. So I was like, I got to go to
Walmart fast. I'm going to get some some Rd.
snacks and I couldn't do it. Like I was like, I have not like
I feel so zapped. I was like, I can't, I can't do
it. And sure enough, I get home and
like it just progressed and I take my temperature and it's
like hey, 1021023102.4 like it just keeps going up and I'm like
(18:54):
whoa. And I take meds and like it
would go down to like 99 but it would the minute it would wear
off, it would go back up and I could not even stay awake.
Like it was like I would be in and out of sleep, right?
Didn't like get constant sleep because when you have a fever
that high you just don't. Feel.
Yeah, yeah. You're not gonna rest.
Yeah, yeah. So but I couldn't also couldn't
(19:16):
stay awake. So like I was supposed to leave
Sunday and I was like, if anybody knows me, so I was.
In I know you can, I say. Yeah, like you.
Know her you. But Ashley commits, she commits.
There is no like backing out if we say and we were actually
supposed to record on Sunday evening.
And I forgot. You were gonna get to Nashville,
(19:37):
get settled in your hotel room, and then we were gonna record
and I text and I'm like, hey. And you're like, oh, my
goodness. And I was like, so you didn't
even go to Nashville. And you're like, no, which I was
glad you didn't go to Nashville.How miserable to be sick in
another place. But I know it meant like, it was
a huge deal for you. Like I have to like, say I can't
(19:59):
go. Yeah and I think I was
reflecting on it cuz of course Ihad to tell the group that went
like, hey, I can't go but can you guys, you know, go still to
this to this right, You know, visit and of course got made fun
of per usual someone yeah yeah, definition of what it meant to
fake and. Illness to get out of
responsibility, but I. As much as that's a joke, I know
(20:21):
that probably. Gotcha.
Killed. I'm not me like crying with a
one O 2 fever at home because all I wanted to do was be there
and I'm really bad at telling myself that it is OK to be sick
and to not do something. I mean terrible.
About this I read this book. I read this book over Christmas
(20:41):
break and it's called EverythingIs Tuberculosis.
Such a random. It was such a good book.
I highly recommend that. I wish I could, I'd have to
Google the author's name, but one of the things I was talking
about and I was like, this is sointeresting, is like the
morality of illness and how, youknow, there is this like
(21:02):
subconscious part of us as humans that if somebody's sick,
then they're weak. Yes.
When illness happens to everybody, unfortunately, some
more than others too. Isn't that wild?
No, I love that because it's truly such a something that I
have to work through and I don't, I think it does stem from
(21:23):
my dad, but I don't ever think he meant this.
Maybe to go as far as I take it,but like my dad was very much
that mentality and we've talked about this before.
A lot of first responders are this like rub some dirt on it
like, yeah, you even though you're sick, you're still going
to school. You're.
Getting I'm sure you're out in the yard getting dirt for that
one, right? To attempt to try to.
(21:45):
Like, like, like he's very much so like that.
And I just have it in my head that if I am sick and I am
missing something, I'm failing. Yeah.
And I tell myself that. And it's the absolute worst
feeling in the world because I feel like I'm never actually
resting. I'm never OK because my brains
constantly like, are you serious?
(22:06):
Like you're, you have all these things to get done and now you
can't even function like this one was so bad though, that I
honestly didn't even have the choice.
I will work through sickness allthe time.
But yeah, of course, that's exactly why I wanted to bring
this up because I think that a lot of our first responders,
myself included, I am not a first responder.
But in terms of burning it too much at both ends and I get
(22:29):
called out for that a lot. And I will give my very last
everything to something like I. I mean, almost like your Co host
on this podcast text to you and it's like take it easy.
We can see, you know, we can reschedule, we can do these
things. Exactly.
I just don't know, but I think that people what I, what I want
to stress here is like if you are, I get sick kind of often
(22:53):
not not to this degree where I'mout out, but like.
Finally, did get a diagnosis or do you want to share your
diagnosis? Oh, yeah, it was.
It was a. Little double that you.
Got I got a little double tap ofthe flu and strep throat.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it that you just didn't
get one. You wanted to make sure to get
both of them. Heaven.
Forbid you just struggle with one what?
(23:16):
Who? So the flu and strep at the same
time. You want to know what else?
So the somebody was like, one ofmy friends was like, how do you
know you're feeling better? And I was like, I feel like I
can be a sarcastic pain in the ass again.
Let's go like. I'm healed.
I'm healed the only. Way I can survive this career so
without that I'm so vulnerable, but I think that I, I wanted to
(23:40):
bring this up and we don't have to spend all this time on it,
but this notion of that not our bodies, the physical symptoms
that we get like it will tell uswhen we are stressed or when we
are overloaded in the brain. And I think that we don't spend
enough time we try to jump on 1st responders who are
struggling. I say it's like a second tier
(24:02):
and I, this is exactly what I presented out in Ileta too is
these three tiers different levels essentially of someone of
crisis indicators, right? And I think that we really much
so see them in the second more so of this like isolation
withdraw are fit. The families will start to say
you're so irritable all the time.
But really in that first here wecould see some of these things
(24:24):
starting to occur in terms of feeling a little bit more
irritable or just not sleeping. But one of the main things in
that very first level right of acrisis indicator of someone
going down a path of really struggling is physical symptoms,
right? And so maybe it's being more
aware of yourself in terms of amI having a lot more physical
symptoms? But also maybe if it's observing
(24:46):
people around you, are they complaining about things a lot?
Yeah, are. You know.
Like always having a headache. Or it is stomach issues?
Stomach is huge. Yeah, well, not adjusted system
is always thrown off when our adrenalines and our Olympic
systems out of lack whatever. But I don't know, like I guess
(25:08):
my little nerdy self, as sick asI was, did actually, and
everyone should be proud of me. One, I didn't go to Nashville at
all. Of course, I told myself on
Sunday. Just feel really messed up.
Monday like see Monday if you can still make it ash and that
then at like noon on Sunday, I was like, what am I doing?
I'm going to stress myself out. I didn't go, but I did take the
(25:30):
time to reflect on people cuz chief immediately sent me a text
message and said, oh look what happens when you start to do too
much, right? And at first I was offended like
I was a little bit like, man, sell that to me one more time
like. And then and then I was like,
gosh Dang it, I know it's true. And I wish I would stop and
(25:51):
listen to my body more so first and realize I need to take those
step backs. But I also thought, I know a lot
of my first responders do the same thing.
We go, go, go, go, go. You know, my one of my college
roommates used to say, you know,you can sleep when you're dead
like this. We.
Hear that all the time. Yeah.
(26:11):
And, you know, I think, and I think about, you know, growing
up and I'm looking at my To Do List right here with so many
things that need to be knocked off of it.
But we are go, go, go, go, go. And there's a lot to do and
there's a lot to get done. And I don't know about you, but
I feel good when I get those things done.
And yet rest is important. And I'll share this.
(26:34):
You know, we were out of town and, and on vacation and it was
a big push for my husband's likework right before we left and,
and all the things that you haveto get done before you go on
vacation and stuff. And we were there and we were
having a good time and we got toa place that we were going to
stay for a few more nights because we traveled throughout
(26:57):
and we were in Portugal. So we traveled throughout
Portugal and we got to go to thebeach and we were going to be
there for a couple days. And that first time at the
beach, like he just started not feeling well.
And it was almost like all that kind of adrenaline dump in a way
of like, you know, all that stuff and finally kind of
getting to be still and your body's kind of playing catch up
(27:18):
a little bit. And I'm not a medical doctor.
And, you know, we were on an airplane where you're sharing
air with all kinds of people, all those kind of things that
can happen and why we get sick. But there is, I mean, it is
important to allow our bodies torest.
And when we go, go, go, sometimes it's just like, I'm
like, what a metaphor would be. You know, it's almost like when
(27:39):
we finally get to stop, it's almost like we have whiplash.
Like, oh, I get to stop. And like, I don't know, like the
stress of everything is still kind of playing inside of our
bodies. Yeah, yeah, yes, I could see
that big time. I think it's like that.
It's I've I also have heard thisterm and I think it's so true
that like if you don't rest, your body's going to force you
(28:00):
to. Yeah, exactly.
That's a great way to put it too.
And, you know, there's a lot of vacations that get ready to
happen in summer. And so just be thinking about
that because it is important to rest and to get away.
And one thing, whenever I, I teach a class, I kind of always
(28:22):
ask people if like, they check their emails while they're on
vacation. And I can't tell you how many
people like raise their hands. And it's just like, that's your
time. That's your time.
It does suck to come back to 1000 emails.
It does like, it's the worst. In fact, you know, we got back
three weeks ago, 4 weeks ago. And Clinton said, was it
(28:45):
yesterday or the day before you?I finally got up on my emails,
you know, like, it takes a long time to get caught up, but
you'll get caught up. That time away, it's time away.
Enjoy it. But I mean, that's a different
episode about boundaries. I don't know.
But I just want people to enjoy their vacations, you know?
(29:05):
That's, I mean, that's my big take away from all this is just
like, and then it was just something I was thinking about
that I was like, I really want to share on the podcast.
Is this notion of like, hey, like, honestly, those physical
symptoms may be really our firstline of defense of recognizing,
like, I need to do something forme.
Yeah. I need to.
Take a step back. Well, and how important it is to
listen to our bodies. Yeah, you know, Yeah.
(29:28):
And take good care of them. What else for?
Today, and that's what I had andI'm excited that we're tech and
we I'm. Excited that we're back too.
And again, you know, we were trying to record earlier this
week and poor Ashley, you know, if I had a letter, I'm sure she
would have tried to still have us meet.
No, you're pretty good. Like, can we just do it another
time? I.
Don't know that we would have gotten.
(29:50):
I don't even know if I would have made any it.
Would have just been a a literalfever dream.
Like, yeah. Quit here, I swear.
But no, I'm excited. Exciting things still coming.
Of course, we're keeping this rolling and we're just very
thankful for everybody and to get back on track.
Absolutely. All right.
Well, when the call hits home, you guys know Jennifer and I are
(30:11):
here for you. Thank you.
Have a good one. Bye.
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