December 17, 2025 • 25 mins
Jennifer [00:00:00]:
There is so much pressure on us to get so much done and so many more demands. And sometimes it's just saying no. That ability to say, like, hey, I can't go to the 12 Christmas parties. Welcome back to the podcast.
Ashlee [00:00:16]:
This is Jennifer and I'm Ashlee. It's us again.
Jennifer [00:00:19]:
It is us again.
Jennifer [00:00:21]:
Holiday season.
Jennifer [00:00:23]:
It is. It's a busy holiday season, but as usual, I'm glad it's just us. And we're excited for our special guests that we'll have back on the pod. But we were debating in terms of, like, gosh, it's the busy season, and I think we should talk about the seasons of the holidays and what that represents for us. Just kind of go from there, I think, is what we're going to start with.
Jennifer [00:00:44]:
Yeah, absolutely. It's a hard poll. We were both a little bit like, do we make everyone wait till the new year for some new episodes? Or then we were both sitting here talking about our experiences in terms of the holidays, how. How it relates to us working. And we both realize that, well, the holidays are actually. They're not just a stressful time for us. They're a stressful time for probably every single one of our listeners. And more so our first responders.
Jennifer [00:01:09]:
Right. They don't get that day off. Some of them don't. They don't get to be home with their families. I think there's a lot that goes into that.
Jennifer [00:01:15]:
There is. And I don't know, I mean, I just think from, like, inside baseball, I feel like that I always get a little bit busier as a therapist around the holidays, be it the approaching holiday or people's New Year's resolutions in January. And I think that the holidays bring up a lot of different things for people. You know, I think that there's plenty of holiday cheer and we always want to celebrate that. But I also think the reality of sometimes that there are things that the holidays brings that is hard. For example, I think something that can be hard with the holidays is if we're a new grieving family, like, if we've lost a family member and this is our first holiday, holiday season without them. Like, it kind of can feel so foreign and different, and traditions that we were looking forward to can be sad and can be hard.
Jennifer [00:02:09]:
Absolutely.
Jennifer [00:02:10]:
I think it's also the aspect which, you know, you pointed this out, Ashlee, is that not all our first responders get to celebrate the holidays. And sometimes it's just another day because they have work and trying to cover down time where a lot of people are Asking for time off. Yeah.
Jennifer [00:02:27]:
Oh, that's true too. Right. I guess I didn't even think about the shift changing, the people who do want time off, not being able to either get it or people being forced because of that. Right. Like, so there's a little bit of negativity that can sometimes come along with that. I do think that there is some truth to. Like you said, I do want to hit on this positive aspect of it too, because as you were talking about that something that came to my mind was my very favorite thing. Well, I feel nervous about saying this, so I'm going to have to pivot a little bit, but like, oh, okay.
Jennifer [00:02:56]:
Right when I was about to say it, I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this. My very favorite thing was shop with a cop. My dad let us be very active in that. My dad played a very big role in shop with the cop with his department. And he often was the big man, if you know what I'm saying. Like, my luck, someone's listening. And I'm not looking to. I'm not looking to destroy lives today.
Jennifer [00:03:15]:
Right. Looking to. To give it how it is all still believe.
Jennifer [00:03:20]:
And so that was one of my very favorite things because my dad would allow us girls to go and then my, My niece actually got to participate in it too. And it was such a learning experience for me as a child of a first responder. One, just to be so grateful for everything that I do have and how to give back to the community. But two, to see my dad in that role. Because again, we think of our first responders a lot of the times. Police.
Jennifer [00:03:42]:
Right.
Jennifer [00:03:43]:
We see them as their uniform. But if there's one thing about my dad is like, he loves so hard and so like, him being able to do that and to give back, especially with kids, like, it was so touching to see and it was something that I know he loved very, very much.
Jennifer [00:03:57]:
Yeah.
Jennifer [00:03:58]:
And so I, I do want to give a shout out to that because I do think there is a little bit in December where we see, like, more positive news about first responders because of the awesome things that they're trying to do for, for their com
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(00:00):
There is so much pressure on us to get so much done and so many
more demands. And sometimes it's just saying
no without ability to say, like,hey, I can't go to the 12
Christmas parties. Welcome back to the podcast.
This is Jennifer. And I'm Ashley, it's us again.
It is us again. Holiday season.
(00:23):
It is. It's a busy holiday season, but
as usual, I'm glad it's just US and we're excited for our
special guests that we'll have back on the pod.
But we were debating in terms oflike, gosh, it's the busy season
and I think we should talk aboutthe seasons of the holidays and
what that represents for us. Just kind of go from there, I
think is what we're going to start with, yeah.
(00:45):
Absolutely. It's a hard poll.
We were both a little bit like, do we make everyone wait till
the new year for some new episodes or then we were both
sitting here talking about our experiences in terms of the
holidays, how it relates US working.
And we both realized that, well,the holidays are actually,
they're not just a stressful time for us, they're a stressful
time for probably every single one of our listeners and more so
(01:08):
are first responders, right? They don't get that day off.
Some of them don't, they don't get to be home with their
families. I think there's a lot that goes
into that. There is, and I don't know, I
mean, I just think from like inside baseball, I feel like
that I always get a little bit busier as a therapist around the
holidays, be it the approaching holiday or people.
(01:29):
It's New Year's resolutions in January, and I think that the
holidays bring up a lot of different things for people.
You know, I think that there's plenty of holiday cheer and we
always want to celebrate that. But I also think the reality of
sometimes that there are things that the holidays brings that is
hard. For example, I think something
(01:50):
that can be hard with the holidays is if we're a new
grieving family, like if we've lost a family member and this is
our first holiday season withoutthem.
Like it kind of can feel so foreign and different and
traditions that we were looking forward to can be sad and can be
hard. Absolutely.
(02:10):
I think it's also the aspect which, you know, you pointed
this out, Ashley, is that not all our first responders get to
celebrate the holidays. And sometimes it's just another
day because they have work and trying to cover down time where
a lot of people are asking for time off.
Yeah. Oh that's true too, right?
I guess I didn't even think about the shift changing.
(02:31):
Is the people who do want time off not being able to either get
it or people being forced because of that, right?
Like, so there's a little bit ofnegativity that can sometimes
come along with that. I do think that there is some
truth to, like you said, I do want to hit on this positive
aspect of it too, because as youwere talking about that,
something that came to my mind was my very favorite thing.
Well, I feel nervous about saying this, so I'm going to
(02:53):
have to pit it a little bit. But like, OK, right when I was
about to say it, I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this.
My very favorite thing was shop with a cop.
My dad let us be very active in that.
My dad played a very big role inshop with a cop with his
department. And he often was the big man, if
you know what I'm saying. Like my like someone's listening
and I'm not looking to, I'm not looking to destroy lives today.
(03:15):
I'm just looking to give it how it is all still believe.
And so that was one of my very favorite things because my dad
would allow us girls to go and then my my niece actually got to
participate in it too. And it was such a learning
experience for me as a child of a first responder, One, just to
be so grateful for everything that I do have and how to give
back to the community. But two, to see my dad in that
(03:38):
role because again, we think of our first responders a lot of
the times police, right? We see them as their uniform.
But if there is one thing about my dad is like, he loves so
hard. And so like him being able to do
that and to give back, especially with kids, like it
was so touching to see and it was something that I know he
loved very, very much. And so I, I do want to give a
(03:59):
shout out to that because I do think there is a little bit in
December where we see like more positive news about first
responders because of the awesome things that they're
trying to do for, for their communities around the holiday,
right? Well, and I think about that too
in terms of when you're responding to people on their
worst days and getting to have amoment of just getting to do
(04:20):
something fun. You know, not to write somebody
a speeding ticket or have to show off to somebody's home
that's caught on fire or, you know, give somebody CPR.
But in a car accident like you get to do something that's just
fun and enjoyable for the. Community and I have to laugh
like what are you talking? But none of them even get out of
(04:42):
their squads when it's a holiday.
They're like, oh sorry, can I always crack up?
I'm like everyone's speed today.The day is the day most of them
are not getting out. No, I'm just kidding.
But I was remember that with my dad and I was like, dad, what's
the matter? And he's like, I'm not ruining
someone's Christmas. Like, so that's so funny.
(05:04):
But I think you also bring up a good point.
And I hate to turn this negative.
I don't want this episode to be negative, but I really think
it's important to highlight the fact that as clinicians, we hear
a lot. And something super important to
me is honestly just the educational aspect of, and we
talk a lot about the brain, we talk about trauma, but the
holidays can be, we say it's hard for them because they're
(05:26):
working. But for first responders, it can
be so hard because they can go through a traumatic experience
on the job. And because it's linked to a
holiday, like say it happens on a holiday.
Let's say somebody gets into a car wreck on Christmas Eve,
right? And and they're that first
responder that now has to tell the family like they're not
going to be there. That can really ruin holidays
(05:47):
for our first responders and I, I hear it a lot in my office.
Jennifer, I don't know about you, but the minute the brain
makes the connection and the holidays is 1 because we as
humans, we love holidays, right?Like the minute it makes that
connection, those memories stickwith us for a very long time.
Well, and I just kind of want tosay like, I appreciate, well, I
don't want to bring us down. But I think part of this and why
(06:11):
you and I started this little podcast was just about wanting
to be honest about the downside of the different things, things
that we experience. And I think that when we talk
about these things that are heavier or harder, it's can
somehow feel like we can take a breath because I'm not alone
struggling with the holidays. Nobody gets that.
(06:32):
I had this awful thing happen, to your point, on Christmas Eve,
on New Year's Eve, and it happened 10 years ago.
And I can be here celebrating with my family and wanting to
enjoy it. And it can be this kind of black
cloud that kind of sits on the day.
And to speak about the brain, there's a part of our brain that
(06:52):
loves organizations and dates and memories, and we like to put
things in boxes. And so an anniversary that's
connected to a holiday, it does sink a little bit lower.
That's something that I think when my dad was on the podcast
and we shared about Saner Guevara, his experience, that
(07:14):
actually happened on my mom's birthday.
And so it is this horrible thingthat then gets connected with
this date. And so I think that that can
really show up around the holidays.
And I think what's hard too withthe holidays is that it's a
season, you know, it's not Valentine's Day, that's one day
that comes and goes. There is this build up to and
(07:37):
you know, even with other holidays as well, you know, like
Hanukkah, like it's this build up to this day and then it's
multiple days or with Christmas,it is this build up into that
holiday. So I think that that it, like I
said, that it can just kind of be in the atmosphere a little
bit more than just, OK, here comes the day.
And I know for some people, especially again, those first
(08:00):
holidays that we have or that first experience where it's a
year later from this, you know, traumatic call I had to make.
It can be this build up of what's this day going to be, you
know, what is this holiday goingto look like now that it's
different? And the brain is tricky, right?
So the brain doesn't necessarilyscream like This is why I'm
(08:22):
feeling this way all the time. And so it's even for some
people, it's even this build up of just like feeling off or
feeling anxious or feeling irritable because of the
holidays. But really when it's tied to
something, right? Like it's very common for that
to happen when anniversaries come around.
We can feel that. And sometimes we don't realize
(08:42):
it in our first responders. I think we'll be the first to
tell us that, right? Like, I have had all these
things, I'm fine. I compartmentalized it.
Yet here's the holiday coming, something tragic happened and I
just, I hate Christmas. I've heard that so many times.
I, when I think that that is such a in reality, you know, I
think the busyness of the seasonis stressful and like, who has
(09:07):
time to sit down and think like,why am I feeling lousy right
now? And just that whole thing of I
hate Christmas and you know, notto do another shameless plug for
therapy here on this podcast. But I mean, I think it is that
stuff of and going back to an old episode, I think you know,
Jamie Davis when he was on the podcast talking about you have
(09:27):
to be able to sit with those things and explore those things.
They're important. And yet it's a busy time.
It doesn't feel like there's time.
I got to have holiday performances to go to and again,
more coverage because people areout and holiday shopping and
holiday parties and all of thosethings.
(09:48):
It gets really hard. Yeah, and what I hear when you
say that, I'm gonna be honest, like I'm man, my clinician brain
just goes back to like this feeling of guilt.
I think a lot comes up. Guilt is huge in my office.
Yeah, no. And it doesn't have to be.
It could be I feel guilty for not helping in this way, but
also like I feel guilty because I'm maybe not as present during
(10:08):
the holiday season with my own family, given just what I'm
going through, right? But I do think that is hard, and
I think that sometimes people, it's easier to show up in those
other ways and harder to show upsometimes for our families,
yeah. Absolutely.
So then I think that's somethingreally important too.
One, we don't want to forget that there's normalcy to those
(10:29):
feelings, right. So like if we do feel a little
more agitated around the holidays, if we do have a call,
we go right back to and we feel ourselves a little bit more
distant or anxious, that's normal.
That's a normal reaction. It absolutely is.
And so I think that ability to give ourselves the grace and
(10:50):
meet ourselves where we're at istotally important there.
You know, if you're a Grinch, you're a Grinch.
That can be it. First off, the Grinch was so
valid, though. He was kind of valid.
He was bullied. I can go on forever.
I love that man. Anyway, yeah.
But I think to acknowledge, likeyou don't have to be fake.
You don't have to. This is my favorite time of year
(11:13):
and how wonderful it is if that's not where you're at.
And then I think when we're ableto acknowledge that and say,
hey, this is where I'm at, it usually allows us to show up in
a more sincere way with the people we care about.
It's a hard time. It's a hard season for whatever
reason. Acknowledging that, giving
ourselves kind of that space anda little bit of that chance to
(11:36):
catch our breath, I think that allows us to say, OK, this is
how I do want to show up for my kiddo who loves the holiday or
for my spouse who is doing a lotto make sure things are magical
for people, you know, whatever that point is.
I think that that that is important and and seasons,
(11:58):
seasons change. I think sometimes that can be
helpful too to recognize it is atemporary season.
I think that's actually. Something that we miss a lot.
We. Are when we are feeling and
we're sitting in it, it feels awful and when we feel awful, it
feels like it's awful forever and we let.
Yes. And we let those cognitive
(12:19):
distortions, right, which to me are definitions are irrational
thoughts a lot of the times. If I can take that down as
simple as possible and correct me if you have a different
definition, but it's the easiestway to do it on here right now.
And we let those take over and we forget that so much of us,
like so much of what's happeningreally is only temporary.
One, we change a lot as humans, but two, just time in general,
(12:41):
Yeah. I like to call that stinking
thinking. That's how yes, you do.
I love that. Yeah.
And those negative thoughts and how those negative thoughts can
really pile on themselves. So again, like, I'm a Grinch.
I don't like this season, whatever that reason is, and
then letting that kind of bleed on to all kinds of things
instead of, to your point, like what happens when we walk that
(13:03):
back, that nothing is permanent,You know, that this moves, it
will move. I think that that's important,
yeah. Absolutely.
One thing that I think I want togive, like I know the normalcy,
I wanted to say that, But the other thing I want to give our
listeners, I know we're trying to make this like the holiday
theme because we're waiting the Dang thick of it, right?
How do we stay present than whenwe are at home with our family?
(13:26):
Right. And one thing I think is so
important to acknowledge, especially if you're a first
responder, you have that time off.
This may sound silly but I swearit just seems so impactful is
putting your phone down. How it's?
Like everybody now is like, I got to jump on the socials and
say Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or whatever you
celebrate and post our pictures and this and that.
And if we want to be present, wehave to put the effort in to
(13:47):
actually be present. And I think screen time
sometimes can kind of drift us apart as family.
So it's important to put those down, put the phones down and
just be with your family. Yeah, I agree.
With that, I mean, I think that's a beautiful thing.
I think what you can do with your family and activity in
terms of something we do as a family is start a puzzle on
Christmas Eve. I mean, I think things like
(14:10):
that, that just has like, hey, we're all coming together on
this one thing that we're doing and it's no, and it's one of
those that's goes out early on Christmas Eve and we'll be
working on it to like Boxing Day.
You know, it's not something that we just sit down and get
all the puzzle. You got to walk away from
something like that for a bit. But again, it's this collective
(14:30):
things that we're doing together.
And I'll say this, this is goingto be not advice at all, but
just that idea of presence and it's reflecting, making me
reflect on my own ability to be present and how I've been on the
struggle bus. This is a shorter Thanksgiving
to the 25th. This is a shorter Halloween
(14:53):
season. And I had a sick kiddo this
weekend, which sucked. And it was the but it in so many
ways after he's feeling better, things are fine.
I'm just like, oh, it was so nice having him sick because we
had to be home. We, you know, like it.
Just I'm slowed. Down, you know.
(15:14):
Things that need to get done, like they'll get done.
What's most important is our health.
And again, I hate that and I don't want people to go get sick
because that will help you slow down.
But it's that whole, I think reminder sometimes of what
matters, what's important. There is so much pressure on us
to get so much done and so many more demands.
(15:37):
And sometimes it's just saying no.
That ability to say like, hey, Ican't go to the 12 Christmas
parties. You know these are the Christmas
parties that are in there. Really.
Are so many Christmas parties there?
Are and I mean, I like to party like, you know, I want to go to
all of them and you know, we hadto miss one this weekend and it
(15:58):
was a bummer. I was oh, you know, so sorry I
couldn't make it. But at the same time, like I
realized what that did for just not feeling as stressed because
there's just you blink and the day is over with, then it's.
Incredible how we can feel when we are forced to relax right?
Like our bodies want it right? Exactly, exactly.
(16:20):
And so I don't know, again, likethat's I just took a left turn
and again, I don't want that encouraging people get sick by
any means. You know, I guess I just want to
pass on. It was just a nice perspective
to have this weekend. And I think we're trying to
acknowledge, hey, what do we do in these situations?
And it was just such a real life.
Somebody hit the emergency brakeon me and you know, I had to
(16:43):
slow down. And so I just want to pass that
on and I think. The point to that too being that
like we can structure our time. Time to give ourselves that
break. And yet.
So many of us don't. Yeah, right.
And that's incredibly important for us to, to even in the
holiday season, even when we're feeling, it's probably more
important if we feel ourselves being a little bit more anxious
(17:05):
or down during this time, right,to create that space for
ourselves. Oh.
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's just again like the
running To Do List that we have in a busy life.
There's just more on it right now and that does rob us from
our presence. And so I just also, I'd
encourage all dads to help theirpartners say it the holidays
(17:29):
like I love. Those reels and memes right now
that are like my husband seeing what we bought, They're like
kids like, you know what I mean?Because they're.
Like seeing it for the? First time, yeah, those are
cracking me up, but you're not wrong.
Yeah, like, you know, we need tohelp out, Yeah.
That is so farewell. And that's a great point too, is
how much we're focusing on the 1st responders in the family and
(17:53):
maybe some of the stresses, calls that have stuck with them
because of the holidays. And yet there are the families
at home who also then experienced these things if
we're not taking care of ourselves and we're not being
present. And so I think that's so
important. It's actually a really good
point is that yes, you're stressed because of all this.
And yet that partner who is maybe taking on the load of the
(18:14):
holiday and trying to make it magical and trying to make sure
everyone's set, they are also stressed, which can cause some
dysfunction within the family for a little bit of time, right?
And I think that that is just something that we always, I
mean, that's why we're here, is just supporting those families
as well and recognizing the rolethat they play and supporting,
you know, the first responder that's having to work and their
(18:35):
crazy schedules and things like that.
And just, I mean, I think that whole thing about being present
is just to say like, hey, you know, thank you and that
appreciation. I don't even know that has to be
some kind of gift or thing of just recognizing, hey, that
maybe cuz I don't think that relationships by any means are
5050. There were all it's always
(18:58):
moving. And so there's gonna be times
where that just needs to be recognized.
It doesn't mean like, well, now I have to make sure I do 50I do
half the Christmas shopping while you do the other half.
No, it's just about the other thing.
Yeah. And I loved before you were
talking about connection and OK,the puzzle thing is so cool.
(19:18):
I think that's fantastic. I mean, I hope my listeners know
this by now, what they think that my family really connects
on on any holiday during this season, which Happy Victory
Monday, Chicago. We are feeling it.
We are feeling it. Me and my dad were out there
yesterday and -30 wind chill -30and we rocked it the entire
(19:43):
actually one of the best games I've been to.
I swear we had so much fun my. Bones just got cold.
You saying that? OK.
Everybody listen up here. I feel like I got hit by a semi
truck today. I don't know if it's from
freezing for so long that my body hurts.
That's a sidetrack. But as you get older, it
happens. And I was very shocked with how
I feel today. But Oh my gosh, we were out
(20:04):
there and it was pretty incredible.
But I definitely have this overwhelming feeling of just
being so grateful for the opportunity.
Season has been wild for us, butyet why is Ben one of my
favorites is because just to be so excited with my dad, right
and to have that. But of course on we have
football this year on Christmas,I think Christmas Eve, Christmas
(20:26):
Day, and that's what we'll do, right?
And it's just, I can't see my life without it.
So it's finding that way to connect, make a, you can always
make a new tradition. So like on Christmas Eve,
Christmas Day, whatever holiday you celebrate, what wherever
Thanksgiving, whatever it is, make that new with your family.
If a first responder is listening, I challenge you to
(20:46):
make something, to make a tradition.
If you don't have one, make the connection right.
Right. And I also think you can do that
if you're working too, you know,like there's something you can
do at work as well. Yeah, I can remember being first
out of school and I worked like,my first holidays and like, wow,
this is really adulting. But there was something still
(21:08):
kind of special about working onthe holiday as well.
But I'm glad for Christmas you're getting a football game.
And I know your happiest time ofyear is just football season,
so. But no.
Everybody's like, Ashley, where are you on this podcast?
I'm like, look, me, I got just afew.
We got a few more months. I'm all in, I'm back, All in.
No, I'm just kidding. But I cannot wait Till picks up
(21:30):
and people just start talking tome.
I live in the state of Wisconsinand I'm a Bears fan and that was
the worst decision of my life. But I just want to.
Tell the listeners what a psychoyou are because I know when I
like introduce you or something and I'll be like, Ashley lives
in Wisconsin. You are so with such quickness,
like nobody's asking, nobody's concerned.
(21:52):
But I'm a Bears fan and I'm fromIllinois.
Like you're so quick. I.
Cannot for the life of me allow somebody to think that I'm
actually a Wisconsin anything like I, it eats me alive on the
inside and I have to say it. I have to say it.
I'm like, don't mix it up. But there's, you know, look at
(22:14):
we're going to lose like listeners.
Wisconsin. I.
Love you, too bad. They all love me because I work
my booty out for them up in thisstate.
But I'm just saying like they all know too.
They all know. They all know too well, but I
think. So funny.
Definitely. Bringing it back around because
I could turn this podcast into aFootball 1 real quick, but I
(22:36):
definitely think that what I love about us and being on here
over the holiday season is we knew we were going to be
flexible because it is hard scheduling during this time.
But at the end of the day, like all these things matter, you
know, holidays can be hard for us for a variety of reasons.
And so we definitely need to tapinto our self-care and and
connection and realizing that it's normal to feel some ways if
(22:58):
you're struggling with specificsduring the holidays.
Yeah, they repeat. Help is there.
Right like do that no shame in the game and sometimes.
To your point, it is just tryingto name it like, hey, what's
going on? You know, Yeah.
Absolutely. Again, I feel like when do we
disclose some of the cool thingscoming, especially in March, We
(23:19):
got a big announcement, don't we?
Yeah. But that's.
They should wait, yeah. That's next year.
That's the new year. For sure, yeah.
That's not till next year, so wedon't have to stress about that.
Let's let's do. It I guess so funny.
Another thing that I will say is, you know, the holiday and
Long story short, I was with somebody that was is not
(23:42):
drinking for some personal reasons and them just talking
about the holidays being hard because of that.
And if it is something that you're taking a step back from
alcohol use and things like that, trying to come up with a
plan to around that. You know, I think that just
acknowledging that it can be hard.
(24:03):
I think that's the way a lot of people celebrate that.
And so trying to find support and ways to navigate that.
I don't know why I went on that tango, but I just think it's
important to know. I think it's really.
Important. I think we've talked, we've
definitely talked a little bit here and there about substance
use, and it's very prevalent among our first responders.
And there's so much truth to. Yeah, I mean, as you were saying
(24:25):
that, I was sitting here like, Oh my gosh, that's such an
important part of this too. Like, yeah, you can plan for
that a little bit, right? But knowing.
And unfortunately, I've heard ofsome like, you know, department
holiday parties that get a little rambunctious and, you
know, all in good fun. But at the same time, just
always make good choices. For sure make good.
(24:46):
Yes, that's exactly what all ourfirst responders do all the
time. I promise you I'm.
Just kidding. We know too much.
We're really. Clinical side of.
Things, it's the clinical side. But hey, that's why we're here,
that's why we love them, right? Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah.
No, I, I, we think the most important thing too is that we
just want to wish everybody happy holidays and thank you for
(25:07):
being with us through this year.And, and we are going to take
just a little bit of time off with the holidays and we'll pick
that up in 2026, which is wild. 2026 by 2026 is already loaded
with some brand new amazing things, so I want everyone to
stay tuned. We are going to take a little
break, which is needed for both of us, but we want everyone to
(25:29):
stay tuned because we have some really cool things coming.
Don't forget about the merch store, yeah?
Get your swag. While we're off for a hot 2nd
right like promote us, we would love to share your photos, share
some stories, don't hesitate to reach out.
We would love to hear from all of you and thank you guys so
much for always listening yes. Happy holidays and thank you
again. And when the.
(25:50):
Call hits home. Jennifer and I are always here
for you. Thank you guys.
There is so much pressure on us to get so much done and so many
more demands. And sometimes it's just saying
no without ability to say, like,hey, I can't go to the 12
Christmas parties. Welcome back to the podcast.
This is Jennifer. And I'm Ashley, it's us again.
It is us again. Holiday season.
(00:23):
It is. It's a busy holiday season, but
as usual, I'm glad it's just US and we're excited for our
special guests that we'll have back on the pod.
But we were debating in terms oflike, gosh, it's the busy season
and I think we should talk aboutthe seasons of the holidays and
what that represents for us. Just kind of go from there, I
think is what we're going to start with, yeah.
(00:45):
Absolutely. It's a hard poll.
We were both a little bit like, do we make everyone wait till
the new year for some new episodes or then we were both
sitting here talking about our experiences in terms of the
holidays, how it relates US working.
And we both realized that, well,the holidays are actually,
they're not just a stressful time for us, they're a stressful
time for probably every single one of our listeners and more so
(01:08):
are first responders, right? They don't get that day off.
Some of them don't, they don't get to be home with their
families. I think there's a lot that goes
into that. There is, and I don't know, I
mean, I just think from like inside baseball, I feel like
that I always get a little bit busier as a therapist around the
holidays, be it the approaching holiday or people.
(01:29):
It's New Year's resolutions in January, and I think that the
holidays bring up a lot of different things for people.
You know, I think that there's plenty of holiday cheer and we
always want to celebrate that. But I also think the reality of
sometimes that there are things that the holidays brings that is
hard. For example, I think something
(01:50):
that can be hard with the holidays is if we're a new
grieving family, like if we've lost a family member and this is
our first holiday season withoutthem.
Like it kind of can feel so foreign and different and
traditions that we were looking forward to can be sad and can be
hard. Absolutely.
(02:10):
I think it's also the aspect which, you know, you pointed
this out, Ashley, is that not all our first responders get to
celebrate the holidays. And sometimes it's just another
day because they have work and trying to cover down time where
a lot of people are asking for time off.
Yeah. Oh that's true too, right?
I guess I didn't even think about the shift changing.
(02:31):
Is the people who do want time off not being able to either get
it or people being forced because of that, right?
Like, so there's a little bit ofnegativity that can sometimes
come along with that. I do think that there is some
truth to, like you said, I do want to hit on this positive
aspect of it too, because as youwere talking about that,
something that came to my mind was my very favorite thing.
Well, I feel nervous about saying this, so I'm going to
(02:53):
have to pit it a little bit. But like, OK, right when I was
about to say it, I was like, maybe I shouldn't say this.
My very favorite thing was shop with a cop.
My dad let us be very active in that.
My dad played a very big role inshop with a cop with his
department. And he often was the big man, if
you know what I'm saying. Like my like someone's listening
and I'm not looking to, I'm not looking to destroy lives today.
(03:15):
I'm just looking to give it how it is all still believe.
And so that was one of my very favorite things because my dad
would allow us girls to go and then my my niece actually got to
participate in it too. And it was such a learning
experience for me as a child of a first responder, One, just to
be so grateful for everything that I do have and how to give
back to the community. But two, to see my dad in that
(03:38):
role because again, we think of our first responders a lot of
the times police, right? We see them as their uniform.
But if there is one thing about my dad is like, he loves so
hard. And so like him being able to do
that and to give back, especially with kids, like it
was so touching to see and it was something that I know he
loved very, very much. And so I, I do want to give a
(03:59):
shout out to that because I do think there is a little bit in
December where we see like more positive news about first
responders because of the awesome things that they're
trying to do for, for their communities around the holiday,
right? Well, and I think about that too
in terms of when you're responding to people on their
worst days and getting to have amoment of just getting to do
(04:20):
something fun. You know, not to write somebody
a speeding ticket or have to show off to somebody's home
that's caught on fire or, you know, give somebody CPR.
But in a car accident like you get to do something that's just
fun and enjoyable for the. Community and I have to laugh
like what are you talking? But none of them even get out of
(04:42):
their squads when it's a holiday.
They're like, oh sorry, can I always crack up?
I'm like everyone's speed today.The day is the day most of them
are not getting out. No, I'm just kidding.
But I was remember that with my dad and I was like, dad, what's
the matter? And he's like, I'm not ruining
someone's Christmas. Like, so that's so funny.
(05:04):
But I think you also bring up a good point.
And I hate to turn this negative.
I don't want this episode to be negative, but I really think
it's important to highlight the fact that as clinicians, we hear
a lot. And something super important to
me is honestly just the educational aspect of, and we
talk a lot about the brain, we talk about trauma, but the
holidays can be, we say it's hard for them because they're
(05:26):
working. But for first responders, it can
be so hard because they can go through a traumatic experience
on the job. And because it's linked to a
holiday, like say it happens on a holiday.
Let's say somebody gets into a car wreck on Christmas Eve,
right? And and they're that first
responder that now has to tell the family like they're not
going to be there. That can really ruin holidays
(05:47):
for our first responders and I, I hear it a lot in my office.
Jennifer, I don't know about you, but the minute the brain
makes the connection and the holidays is 1 because we as
humans, we love holidays, right?Like the minute it makes that
connection, those memories stickwith us for a very long time.
Well, and I just kind of want tosay like, I appreciate, well, I
don't want to bring us down. But I think part of this and why
(06:11):
you and I started this little podcast was just about wanting
to be honest about the downside of the different things, things
that we experience. And I think that when we talk
about these things that are heavier or harder, it's can
somehow feel like we can take a breath because I'm not alone
struggling with the holidays. Nobody gets that.
(06:32):
I had this awful thing happen, to your point, on Christmas Eve,
on New Year's Eve, and it happened 10 years ago.
And I can be here celebrating with my family and wanting to
enjoy it. And it can be this kind of black
cloud that kind of sits on the day.
And to speak about the brain, there's a part of our brain that
(06:52):
loves organizations and dates and memories, and we like to put
things in boxes. And so an anniversary that's
connected to a holiday, it does sink a little bit lower.
That's something that I think when my dad was on the podcast
and we shared about Saner Guevara, his experience, that
(07:14):
actually happened on my mom's birthday.
And so it is this horrible thingthat then gets connected with
this date. And so I think that that can
really show up around the holidays.
And I think what's hard too withthe holidays is that it's a
season, you know, it's not Valentine's Day, that's one day
that comes and goes. There is this build up to and
(07:37):
you know, even with other holidays as well, you know, like
Hanukkah, like it's this build up to this day and then it's
multiple days or with Christmas,it is this build up into that
holiday. So I think that that it, like I
said, that it can just kind of be in the atmosphere a little
bit more than just, OK, here comes the day.
And I know for some people, especially again, those first
(08:00):
holidays that we have or that first experience where it's a
year later from this, you know, traumatic call I had to make.
It can be this build up of what's this day going to be, you
know, what is this holiday goingto look like now that it's
different? And the brain is tricky, right?
So the brain doesn't necessarilyscream like This is why I'm
(08:22):
feeling this way all the time. And so it's even for some
people, it's even this build up of just like feeling off or
feeling anxious or feeling irritable because of the
holidays. But really when it's tied to
something, right? Like it's very common for that
to happen when anniversaries come around.
We can feel that. And sometimes we don't realize
(08:42):
it in our first responders. I think we'll be the first to
tell us that, right? Like, I have had all these
things, I'm fine. I compartmentalized it.
Yet here's the holiday coming, something tragic happened and I
just, I hate Christmas. I've heard that so many times.
I, when I think that that is such a in reality, you know, I
think the busyness of the seasonis stressful and like, who has
(09:07):
time to sit down and think like,why am I feeling lousy right
now? And just that whole thing of I
hate Christmas and you know, notto do another shameless plug for
therapy here on this podcast. But I mean, I think it is that
stuff of and going back to an old episode, I think you know,
Jamie Davis when he was on the podcast talking about you have
(09:27):
to be able to sit with those things and explore those things.
They're important. And yet it's a busy time.
It doesn't feel like there's time.
I got to have holiday performances to go to and again,
more coverage because people areout and holiday shopping and
holiday parties and all of thosethings.
(09:48):
It gets really hard. Yeah, and what I hear when you
say that, I'm gonna be honest, like I'm man, my clinician brain
just goes back to like this feeling of guilt.
I think a lot comes up. Guilt is huge in my office.
Yeah, no. And it doesn't have to be.
It could be I feel guilty for not helping in this way, but
also like I feel guilty because I'm maybe not as present during
(10:08):
the holiday season with my own family, given just what I'm
going through, right? But I do think that is hard, and
I think that sometimes people, it's easier to show up in those
other ways and harder to show upsometimes for our families,
yeah. Absolutely.
So then I think that's somethingreally important too.
One, we don't want to forget that there's normalcy to those
(10:29):
feelings, right. So like if we do feel a little
more agitated around the holidays, if we do have a call,
we go right back to and we feel ourselves a little bit more
distant or anxious, that's normal.
That's a normal reaction. It absolutely is.
And so I think that ability to give ourselves the grace and
(10:50):
meet ourselves where we're at istotally important there.
You know, if you're a Grinch, you're a Grinch.
That can be it. First off, the Grinch was so
valid, though. He was kind of valid.
He was bullied. I can go on forever.
I love that man. Anyway, yeah.
But I think to acknowledge, likeyou don't have to be fake.
You don't have to. This is my favorite time of year
(11:13):
and how wonderful it is if that's not where you're at.
And then I think when we're ableto acknowledge that and say,
hey, this is where I'm at, it usually allows us to show up in
a more sincere way with the people we care about.
It's a hard time. It's a hard season for whatever
reason. Acknowledging that, giving
ourselves kind of that space anda little bit of that chance to
(11:36):
catch our breath, I think that allows us to say, OK, this is
how I do want to show up for my kiddo who loves the holiday or
for my spouse who is doing a lotto make sure things are magical
for people, you know, whatever that point is.
I think that that that is important and and seasons,
(11:58):
seasons change. I think sometimes that can be
helpful too to recognize it is atemporary season.
I think that's actually. Something that we miss a lot.
We. Are when we are feeling and
we're sitting in it, it feels awful and when we feel awful, it
feels like it's awful forever and we let.
Yes. And we let those cognitive
(12:19):
distortions, right, which to me are definitions are irrational
thoughts a lot of the times. If I can take that down as
simple as possible and correct me if you have a different
definition, but it's the easiestway to do it on here right now.
And we let those take over and we forget that so much of us,
like so much of what's happeningreally is only temporary.
One, we change a lot as humans, but two, just time in general,
(12:41):
Yeah. I like to call that stinking
thinking. That's how yes, you do.
I love that. Yeah.
And those negative thoughts and how those negative thoughts can
really pile on themselves. So again, like, I'm a Grinch.
I don't like this season, whatever that reason is, and
then letting that kind of bleed on to all kinds of things
instead of, to your point, like what happens when we walk that
(13:03):
back, that nothing is permanent,You know, that this moves, it
will move. I think that that's important,
yeah. Absolutely.
One thing that I think I want togive, like I know the normalcy,
I wanted to say that, But the other thing I want to give our
listeners, I know we're trying to make this like the holiday
theme because we're waiting the Dang thick of it, right?
How do we stay present than whenwe are at home with our family?
(13:26):
Right. And one thing I think is so
important to acknowledge, especially if you're a first
responder, you have that time off.
This may sound silly but I swearit just seems so impactful is
putting your phone down. How it's?
Like everybody now is like, I got to jump on the socials and
say Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah or whatever you
celebrate and post our pictures and this and that.
And if we want to be present, wehave to put the effort in to
(13:47):
actually be present. And I think screen time
sometimes can kind of drift us apart as family.
So it's important to put those down, put the phones down and
just be with your family. Yeah, I agree.
With that, I mean, I think that's a beautiful thing.
I think what you can do with your family and activity in
terms of something we do as a family is start a puzzle on
Christmas Eve. I mean, I think things like
(14:10):
that, that just has like, hey, we're all coming together on
this one thing that we're doing and it's no, and it's one of
those that's goes out early on Christmas Eve and we'll be
working on it to like Boxing Day.
You know, it's not something that we just sit down and get
all the puzzle. You got to walk away from
something like that for a bit. But again, it's this collective
(14:30):
things that we're doing together.
And I'll say this, this is goingto be not advice at all, but
just that idea of presence and it's reflecting, making me
reflect on my own ability to be present and how I've been on the
struggle bus. This is a shorter Thanksgiving
to the 25th. This is a shorter Halloween
(14:53):
season. And I had a sick kiddo this
weekend, which sucked. And it was the but it in so many
ways after he's feeling better, things are fine.
I'm just like, oh, it was so nice having him sick because we
had to be home. We, you know, like it.
Just I'm slowed. Down, you know.
(15:14):
Things that need to get done, like they'll get done.
What's most important is our health.
And again, I hate that and I don't want people to go get sick
because that will help you slow down.
But it's that whole, I think reminder sometimes of what
matters, what's important. There is so much pressure on us
to get so much done and so many more demands.
(15:37):
And sometimes it's just saying no.
That ability to say like, hey, Ican't go to the 12 Christmas
parties. You know these are the Christmas
parties that are in there. Really.
Are so many Christmas parties there?
Are and I mean, I like to party like, you know, I want to go to
all of them and you know, we hadto miss one this weekend and it
(15:58):
was a bummer. I was oh, you know, so sorry I
couldn't make it. But at the same time, like I
realized what that did for just not feeling as stressed because
there's just you blink and the day is over with, then it's.
Incredible how we can feel when we are forced to relax right?
Like our bodies want it right? Exactly, exactly.
(16:20):
And so I don't know, again, likethat's I just took a left turn
and again, I don't want that encouraging people get sick by
any means. You know, I guess I just want to
pass on. It was just a nice perspective
to have this weekend. And I think we're trying to
acknowledge, hey, what do we do in these situations?
And it was just such a real life.
Somebody hit the emergency brakeon me and you know, I had to
(16:43):
slow down. And so I just want to pass that
on and I think. The point to that too being that
like we can structure our time. Time to give ourselves that
break. And yet.
So many of us don't. Yeah, right.
And that's incredibly important for us to, to even in the
holiday season, even when we're feeling, it's probably more
important if we feel ourselves being a little bit more anxious
(17:05):
or down during this time, right,to create that space for
ourselves. Oh.
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's just again like the
running To Do List that we have in a busy life.
There's just more on it right now and that does rob us from
our presence. And so I just also, I'd
encourage all dads to help theirpartners say it the holidays
(17:29):
like I love. Those reels and memes right now
that are like my husband seeing what we bought, They're like
kids like, you know what I mean?Because they're.
Like seeing it for the? First time, yeah, those are
cracking me up, but you're not wrong.
Yeah, like, you know, we need tohelp out, Yeah.
That is so farewell. And that's a great point too, is
how much we're focusing on the 1st responders in the family and
(17:53):
maybe some of the stresses, calls that have stuck with them
because of the holidays. And yet there are the families
at home who also then experienced these things if
we're not taking care of ourselves and we're not being
present. And so I think that's so
important. It's actually a really good
point is that yes, you're stressed because of all this.
And yet that partner who is maybe taking on the load of the
(18:14):
holiday and trying to make it magical and trying to make sure
everyone's set, they are also stressed, which can cause some
dysfunction within the family for a little bit of time, right?
And I think that that is just something that we always, I
mean, that's why we're here, is just supporting those families
as well and recognizing the rolethat they play and supporting,
you know, the first responder that's having to work and their
(18:35):
crazy schedules and things like that.
And just, I mean, I think that whole thing about being present
is just to say like, hey, you know, thank you and that
appreciation. I don't even know that has to be
some kind of gift or thing of just recognizing, hey, that
maybe cuz I don't think that relationships by any means are
5050. There were all it's always
(18:58):
moving. And so there's gonna be times
where that just needs to be recognized.
It doesn't mean like, well, now I have to make sure I do 50I do
half the Christmas shopping while you do the other half.
No, it's just about the other thing.
Yeah. And I loved before you were
talking about connection and OK,the puzzle thing is so cool.
(19:18):
I think that's fantastic. I mean, I hope my listeners know
this by now, what they think that my family really connects
on on any holiday during this season, which Happy Victory
Monday, Chicago. We are feeling it.
We are feeling it. Me and my dad were out there
yesterday and -30 wind chill -30and we rocked it the entire
(19:43):
actually one of the best games I've been to.
I swear we had so much fun my. Bones just got cold.
You saying that? OK.
Everybody listen up here. I feel like I got hit by a semi
truck today. I don't know if it's from
freezing for so long that my body hurts.
That's a sidetrack. But as you get older, it
happens. And I was very shocked with how
I feel today. But Oh my gosh, we were out
(20:04):
there and it was pretty incredible.
But I definitely have this overwhelming feeling of just
being so grateful for the opportunity.
Season has been wild for us, butyet why is Ben one of my
favorites is because just to be so excited with my dad, right
and to have that. But of course on we have
football this year on Christmas,I think Christmas Eve, Christmas
(20:26):
Day, and that's what we'll do, right?
And it's just, I can't see my life without it.
So it's finding that way to connect, make a, you can always
make a new tradition. So like on Christmas Eve,
Christmas Day, whatever holiday you celebrate, what wherever
Thanksgiving, whatever it is, make that new with your family.
If a first responder is listening, I challenge you to
(20:46):
make something, to make a tradition.
If you don't have one, make the connection right.
Right. And I also think you can do that
if you're working too, you know,like there's something you can
do at work as well. Yeah, I can remember being first
out of school and I worked like,my first holidays and like, wow,
this is really adulting. But there was something still
(21:08):
kind of special about working onthe holiday as well.
But I'm glad for Christmas you're getting a football game.
And I know your happiest time ofyear is just football season,
so. But no.
Everybody's like, Ashley, where are you on this podcast?
I'm like, look, me, I got just afew.
We got a few more months. I'm all in, I'm back, All in.
No, I'm just kidding. But I cannot wait Till picks up
(21:30):
and people just start talking tome.
I live in the state of Wisconsinand I'm a Bears fan and that was
the worst decision of my life. But I just want to.
Tell the listeners what a psychoyou are because I know when I
like introduce you or something and I'll be like, Ashley lives
in Wisconsin. You are so with such quickness,
like nobody's asking, nobody's concerned.
(21:52):
But I'm a Bears fan and I'm fromIllinois.
Like you're so quick. I.
Cannot for the life of me allow somebody to think that I'm
actually a Wisconsin anything like I, it eats me alive on the
inside and I have to say it. I have to say it.
I'm like, don't mix it up. But there's, you know, look at
(22:14):
we're going to lose like listeners.
Wisconsin. I.
Love you, too bad. They all love me because I work
my booty out for them up in thisstate.
But I'm just saying like they all know too.
They all know. They all know too well, but I
think. So funny.
Definitely. Bringing it back around because
I could turn this podcast into aFootball 1 real quick, but I
(22:36):
definitely think that what I love about us and being on here
over the holiday season is we knew we were going to be
flexible because it is hard scheduling during this time.
But at the end of the day, like all these things matter, you
know, holidays can be hard for us for a variety of reasons.
And so we definitely need to tapinto our self-care and and
connection and realizing that it's normal to feel some ways if
(22:58):
you're struggling with specificsduring the holidays.
Yeah, they repeat. Help is there.
Right like do that no shame in the game and sometimes.
To your point, it is just tryingto name it like, hey, what's
going on? You know, Yeah.
Absolutely. Again, I feel like when do we
disclose some of the cool thingscoming, especially in March, We
(23:19):
got a big announcement, don't we?
Yeah. But that's.
They should wait, yeah. That's next year.
That's the new year. For sure, yeah.
That's not till next year, so wedon't have to stress about that.
Let's let's do. It I guess so funny.
Another thing that I will say is, you know, the holiday and
Long story short, I was with somebody that was is not
(23:42):
drinking for some personal reasons and them just talking
about the holidays being hard because of that.
And if it is something that you're taking a step back from
alcohol use and things like that, trying to come up with a
plan to around that. You know, I think that just
acknowledging that it can be hard.
(24:03):
I think that's the way a lot of people celebrate that.
And so trying to find support and ways to navigate that.
I don't know why I went on that tango, but I just think it's
important to know. I think it's really.
Important. I think we've talked, we've
definitely talked a little bit here and there about substance
use, and it's very prevalent among our first responders.
And there's so much truth to. Yeah, I mean, as you were saying
(24:25):
that, I was sitting here like, Oh my gosh, that's such an
important part of this too. Like, yeah, you can plan for
that a little bit, right? But knowing.
And unfortunately, I've heard ofsome like, you know, department
holiday parties that get a little rambunctious and, you
know, all in good fun. But at the same time, just
always make good choices. For sure make good.
(24:46):
Yes, that's exactly what all ourfirst responders do all the
time. I promise you I'm.
Just kidding. We know too much.
We're really. Clinical side of.
Things, it's the clinical side. But hey, that's why we're here,
that's why we love them, right? Exactly.
Exactly. Yeah.
No, I, I, we think the most important thing too is that we
just want to wish everybody happy holidays and thank you for
(25:07):
being with us through this year.And, and we are going to take
just a little bit of time off with the holidays and we'll pick
that up in 2026, which is wild. 2026 by 2026 is already loaded
with some brand new amazing things, so I want everyone to
stay tuned. We are going to take a little
break, which is needed for both of us, but we want everyone to
(25:29):
stay tuned because we have some really cool things coming.
Don't forget about the merch store, yeah?
Get your swag. While we're off for a hot 2nd
right like promote us, we would love to share your photos, share
some stories, don't hesitate to reach out.
We would love to hear from all of you and thank you guys so
much for always listening yes. Happy holidays and thank you
again. And when the.
(25:50):
Call hits home. Jennifer and I are always here
for you. Thank you guys.
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