May 13, 2026 • 26 mins
In this heartfelt and honest episode, Jennifer and Ashlee sit down—just the two of them—to discuss the realities of balancing their professional and personal lives, the challenges of burnout, and how these impact their work on the podcast. They explore the importance of boundaries, self-care, and reprioritizing, all while remaining committed to supporting first responder families.
Key Topics & Highlights
A Peek Into Ashlee’s World
The Struggle to Balance
Recognizing Burnout
The Importance of Boundaries
Family, Guilt & Saying No
Self-Care Strategies
Book Recommendation
A Change to the Podcast Schedule
Resources Mentioned
Book: Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle by Emily & Amelia Nagoski
Listener Takeaways
Burnout is real, and boundaries are essential.
Self-care isn’t selfish—it makes you better at supporting others.
It’s okay to say no; your relationships (professional and personal) should withstand honest boundaries.
Programming Note
The podcast will shift to a monthly release schedule starting next month. Thank you for understanding and continuing to support this community!
----------------------------------------------------------------
FOLLOW & CONNECT WITH US
• Facebook -https://www.facebook.com/whenthecallhitshome
• Twitter - https://x.com/WTCHHOfficial
• Instagram -https://www.instagram.com/whenthecallhitshome/
• YouTube - @WhenTheCallHitsHome
• Our Website! - https://whenthecallhitshome.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------
#WhenTheCallHitsHome #FirstResponderFamily #CenturionsPath #Therapists #PodcastCollab #SupportFirstResponders #FamilyOfCops #MentalHealthAwareness #PodcastCommunity #FeaturedGuests
________________________________________
This podcast does not contain medical / health advice. It is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment and should not be relied on as health or personal advice.
The information contained in this podcast is for general information purposes only. The information is provided by Training Velocity LLC and while we endeavor to keep the information up to date and correct, we make no representations or warranties of any kind, express or implied, about the completeness, accuracy, reliability, suitability or availability with respect to the Podcast or the information, products, services, or related graphics contained in the podcast for any purpose. Any reliance you place on such information is strictly at your own risk.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE NOR LIABLE FOR ANY ADVICE, COURSE OF TREATMENT, DIAGNOSIS OR ANY OTHER INFORMATION, SERVICES OR PRODUCTS THAT YOU OBTAIN THROUGH THIS PODCAST.
Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen, and never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi, welcome back to When the Call Hits Home.
I'm Jennifer. And I'm Ashley.
And we are happy to be back on. And it's just Ashley and I
today, which is I think important because we had some
things that we wanted to talk toyou guys about just about when
the call hits home. And yeah, so it's just us today.
(00:21):
Yeah, I think it is important for us to talk about.
And I think, you know, it's being kind of like we talked
about already, this one being a little bit more real, a little
bit more wrong in terms of just life and where life can take us
sometimes. And I don't know if it's OK,
Jennifer, but maybe I start by talking a little bit about my
role. And yes, please do.
(00:42):
So I think a lot of people, obviously they know me from this
podcast, but they maybe don't realize that like I kind of have
my I don't even know what is is there a saying for this hand and
everything? So I have my own private
practice, right, where we have like other clinicians here, a
(01:02):
whole front desk and a biller and so kind of have to run that.
And then I do have a co-owner though, she's amazing and it's
helpful to have somebody else too.
But that's one part of my life. Another part of my life is the
worst work that I do with first responders.
And in that I do contract with several different departments in
terms of just like neck up checkUPS or critical incidences, you
(01:24):
know, obviously seeing people individually for therapy and,
and all that. But my primary role now has been
with the Sheriff's Office, whicha lot of people are familiar
with since we've had chief on here and things like that.
But I think what we don't necessarily talk a lot about is
this notion of like, Hey, because I have all that going
on, sometimes it's hard for me to dedicate the time that I
probably should to the podcast, right?
(01:45):
Because my, my brain and my energy is everywhere.
And it's a very beautiful thing.It's a positive thing a lot of
the times, but there are momentswhere it's absolutely
exhausting. Like this week, Jennifer and I
were supposed to record earlier in the week and didn't work out
that way 'cause I had some events unfold over the weekend
and then I had a meeting when wewere supposed to record.
(02:07):
And then from that meeting I went into having to work at
like, I think I, you know, 3 something in the morning, got
woken up and then just kind of been behind the ball since then.
And it and it is something that,you know, again, in the moment,
absolutely my favorite thing in this world because this is my
passion, being able to help first responders being there in
(02:29):
some of these tough moments. But then it sets everything else
behind. Jennifer and I were just talking
about this fact that like I hadn't slept.
And I am not the human that can go on little sleep.
I'm just not. I get pretty cranky and I can
feel my whole self just like fading.
And so yesterday I had to make some tougher decisions for
(02:51):
myself because I want to be there for everybody and make
sure I'm doing a good job in every way.
But I couldn't, I couldn't really be there if I couldn't
show up for myself. And I realized that like, I need
sleep desperately. I'm not going to be any good to
anybody when I'm feeling this way, when I'm so drained that I
can't even keep my eyes open. So I slept, it took a nap, and
it was solid. And then it was like solid
(03:13):
night's sleep. I woke up feeling completely
refreshed. But it just kind of brought us
to this topic of like 1. How do we prioritize the podcast
and then like, what is, you know, the fear of us burning out
or the fear of, you know, not having the capacity to do things
anymore and how do we prioritizethem?
Jennifer, I'm going to hand it over to you because I think you
(03:34):
made such a good point just now about what does that look like
sometimes, you know, and, and how do we approach it?
Yeah. Well, one, you know, I just want
to come back to how much we are always grateful and thankful for
our listeners. You know, this podcast would not
exist if it wasn't for y'all that listen.
(03:55):
And yeah, you know, Ashley, I appreciate you sharing about how
full just your professional lifeis.
And you know, you are such an incredible talented clinician.
But I think it's important for our listeners to know like you
have a life and family outside of your work too.
Like I think sometimes we can soover identify with our careers.
(04:16):
That's just kind of our part of our culture as you know, what do
you do for a living and things? But I also think that you have a
full life with friends and family that you care deeply for
and prioritize too. And it can be really hard to
prioritize all those things and you didn't even mention, I don't
know, maybe edit this out but like there's a new chapter 2 in
(04:39):
your career about. Yeah.
Professing, I don't know, am I allowed to?
Are we allowed to tell her aboutthat?
Oh yeah, I did accept a positionas a adjunct professor at a
college up by me so. So again, Ashley, it was booked
and busy and one thing that I often when I, you know, we're
messaging are wonderful guests that have been on the show.
(05:02):
It's like the hardest thing about podcasting is really
trying to get three adults schedules to align like that.
It's a lot of moving parts for sure.
But yeah, so Ashley and I were having a discussion and we just
really wanted to bring it to youguys just about we have loved
doing this podcast. It has been such a passion
(05:25):
project and so easy and so many ways in terms of how things have
like, obviously we work for them, but they've also kind of
fallen in our laps in some ways.And it's been beautiful.
And it's just been a little bit of a tougher season.
And so we're just kind of re evaluating that.
And in that re evaluation, it is, you know, I think something
(05:47):
that comes up in people's careerand I this a lot with first
responders, especially ones thatare been at the job for more
than a year, is that, you know, burnout is a real thing and that
we can really, I would say, you know, can get really crispy with
things. And I think some signs of
(06:08):
burnout are, you know, when you don't have energy, when it feels
like it's non-stop that you never get a break, you get a
break, you get a vacation and it's just like you didn't even
have it didn't even exist. And some of the stuff that we
talked about with, you know, being child to 1st responders
than the family piece of like recognizing I'm coming home and
(06:30):
I'm really snippy with my familyor I've had times as a parent of
like, you know, I love my kid and yet can they please just go
in the other room and watch TV so I can like have 5 minutes to
myself. Like, you know, and, and I'm not
a first responder. So I think that that's a really
normal experience. And so I think to kind of
evaluate that is important for people in this career and like,
(06:56):
what can you do to burn out? And I think Ashley and I, I hope
this is OK Ashley, you know, is us being really honest with each
other and kind of where are we at?
And sometimes it's important to recognize like, OK, what are our
priorities? And that doesn't mean that we
don't care about something or something's not a priority to
ourselves. But to recognize if I want to
(07:17):
be, if I want to do a good job, I have to be recognized.
Like, what can I give of myself to everything?
And sometimes it is like, I justneed to take a vacation day.
Like I have to take that. And it sucks.
I might be letting people down or disappointing people, but
sometimes, you know, I just haveto do that.
(07:38):
The one thing that I've always lectured for responders on is
this, you know, this hyper vigilance that we can get in
sometimes. And like, you know, it does suck
when you go on vacation, you come back and your inbox is full
with 1000 things. But like, if you can't go on
vacation without feeling like you got to check your e-mail,
(07:58):
like, you know, what's our relationship to this job kind of
thing? And like those things can be
hard to evaluate. And I've had to work with a lot
of people about, you know, I feel like if I'm taking care of
myself personally, then that means I'm bad at my job.
(08:19):
And I think that that's a real black and white thinking.
And sometimes we could be way better at our job when we're
taking that time to evaluate andsay, hey, you know, I am a human
being in this. And again, this idea of our
families, right? Like.
Yeah. There's sometimes when we have
to back up and say like, I'm notthis shy.
(08:42):
I'm I'm my child's parent and mychild's needing this right now.
What does that look like? As usual I feel like I just went
on a tangent, but. No, I think it's a great one.
I mean, because it's also very, very true, right.
And like, I think I'll be, I mean, I'm always honest in terms
of like being, of course. You are.
I know it's bad sometimes, right?
(09:03):
So much truth. So like, I have so much passion
for what I do in my career that like, yeah, I probably do hinder
myself personally because of that, you know?
And it's, and I know we've talked about this, but sometimes
when life is really rough, it's so much easier to continue to
pour into something else and stop and take that reflection.
Yeah, You know, it's a I, I guess it's kind of a way of
(09:25):
avoidance, but it doesn't make you feel like you're avoiding
'cause you're feeling full. On another side, I am very
blessed with where I'm at because everybody is very like,
hey, Doc G, you're gonna, you'regonna run out.
Like, are you taking care of you?
Are you, you know, do you have atherapist?
Are you, you know, like very supportive, encouraging of me
(09:48):
doing these things, of me takingcare of myself.
And that's what's wild is a lot of the times I feel like when I
talk to people, myself included,it's really it's our own thought
process. It's our internal thought
process. That's like kind of blocking
this notion of like, you know, it's OK, it is OK to take care
of yourself. It is OK to hit pause or like
you're saying, reevaluate our priorities and say how can we
(10:10):
shift some things around to to do what we need to do in life to
make sure we're OK? Right.
Well, and I think that that's such a thing that can happen
when we're in professions that are in service to others, right?
We can really see that in our peers and our colleagues.
And, you know, like, hey, you OK, man?
Are you OK? Like, take care of yourself.
(10:31):
Take care of yourself. And that's such good advice that
we can dole out and not always the advice that we take.
And what I see in terms of that theme is this idea of how
selfish that feels. That feels really selfish.
You know, if I have somebody that or you know, we're short
(10:52):
staffed at work and they need meto cover the shift, well, I'm
being selfish if I'm not doing that.
And, and I think it's sometimes about, you know, checking your
temperature. I think that there's times where
it's like I'm exhausted and I just want to sit on my couch all
day, but I can muscle through this shift and be OK.
(11:13):
And other times where it is like, no, I, I've worked 30 days
in a row. I need this day off And that,
you know, there are labor laws like you're not supposed to work
like so many hours too, right? But you know, I, I see that kind
of cycle that people can get in to think if I'm not showing up,
(11:37):
then who is going to show up? And if I'm not willing to do it?
And it can really be again, this, this place of feeling
really selfish if I'm thinking about what my needs are.
And you know, what I've kind of encouraged in that is like, what
would balance look like? Because what I see happen and
(11:59):
Ashley, you don't you tell me ifthis is something you've ever
experienced as I see these people that are so selfless in
these acts. And, and, and again, it's it's
about showing up there for my team or my brothers and sisters,
or I know if I needed them, they'd show up for me.
So I want to show up for them. Those are all a wonderful value
(12:20):
system for sure. But I think happens in those
situations where we are showing up in such a way and putting
ourselves last, that then we become the ultimate kind of
opposite of what we want to be. And that, you know, the, the
wheels fall off the cart and we go from being so selfless to
(12:41):
then it really does turn into the selfishness because we get
to those places of burnout. Our attitude completely changes.
We go from feeling like we want to help people to feeling like
people are taking advantage of us.
And it becomes this kind of realrebellion of that value system
that we have about, you know, taking care of others and being
(13:01):
into service of others. And I had this said by an
another colleague that said it beautifully.
I don't know that I'll capture it, but compassion without
boundaries can be really dangerous.
And it is this idea of like, we have this care for others and
this, you know, openness. And if we don't have a boundary
(13:23):
with that, again, it's that thing of we become a doormat or
people take from our will so much that we're all dried out.
And I think it's just important to kind of recognize when that's
happening for you. Yeah, actually really love that.
And I'm, it's resonating a lot with me actually, right before
we jumped on here. So it's kind of funny that this
(13:44):
is all coming full circle. You were dead on in terms of my
personal life, right? And I absolutely love my family.
Like if anybody knows me, they know that I will go above and
beyond for everybody in my family.
And it's just what it is. Being with my family definitely
can refill my cup, but I will goout of my way to make something
happen, which is where it can bedraining for me, if that makes
(14:06):
sense. And so like, this weekend coming
up, it's a big weekend, right? So one of my cousins is coming
home from being in Australia, which is so cool.
And you know, my dad's birthday is Saturday.
Happy birthday dad. Can't believe.
He's going to be 59. That's wild.
And then Sunday's Mother's Day, right?
(14:27):
And so it was this notion of, hey, we have this family dinner
on Friday night and then we havedad's birthday thing on
Saturday, and then we have Mother's Day on Sunday.
And I was like, oh, this sounds great.
This all sounds great. And then this event transpired
this week in which has, like I, I said, has kind of set me back
just in terms of like sleep and scheduling and all these things.
And on Friday now I'm running debriefs.
(14:49):
And that's again, that's a part of my job that I love very much.
And my brain right away was like, OK, it's no problem.
Like I'll, I can still get to the dinner.
It might be I might be a little late.
Like if a debrief runs a little late, I might be a little late
and but I could still make it. I'll still make it happen.
And then this whole other part of me was like, I'm so tired.
(15:10):
Like I'm running and I, you know, nobody in my family
expects me to be there if I can't be there.
But it's kind of pressure and feeling bad, right?
Probably FOMO too, right? Just like wanting to be there.
And I finally was like, I was going to do like a play it by
ear tomorrow thing. And then I was like, no, like
(15:31):
what I really want to do is hit my hot Ian yoga class because
that's the one thing that has I have found to like literally put
my body at ease. And then I want to wake up in
the morning and go to my favorite thing in the world,
which is the farmers market here.
And well, OK, besides the bears and.
It's just not football season right now, Ashley.
(15:52):
We get it. Yes, yes.
And then I can go to my dad's and go to his party at night and
spend the night and go to Mother's Day.
Like, I don't have to make everything happen, right?
And I will do that. Like, I will push myself, but I.
But then the whole time I'm justexhausted.
And I'm like, why do I keep doing this to myself?
Doesn't mean I love anybody less.
(16:14):
Yeah, they love me less, Right? But like, it's just that notion
of being able to say no, like those boundaries put them in
place and realize like, no, I got to take care of me for a
minute here. Mm Hmm.
Yeah. I mean, I think that's
important. And I think that recognizing too
that people that support us can understand and respect that
(16:34):
boundary. So doesn't mean that they're not
going to be upset or bummed thatthey're going to miss you.
And they might say like, hey, you know, man, that sucks.
We really wanted to have you there, but also can be
understanding. And I've found that, you know,
over the years of like, oh, the people that can really respect
that I can't be at 20 places at once or I've made this other
(16:56):
commitment to somebody else before, you know, they can
really respect that. And I'll say, you know, my own
experience of, you know, moving out of state and being at a
place that, like, I had a lot offriends and commitments and
things that, you know, I was very grateful for and, and
moving kind of recognizing, oh, some of these relationships.
(17:21):
And now, Steve, we're a little bit more one way than a two way
St. And that's, you know, a hard
thing. And I definitely am so grateful
for those friendships and relationships.
And it's, you know, I would be being dishonest if I wasn't
saying like, there's not some sadness with that at times, but
(17:42):
it is kind of recognizing like there are people that will show
up for us in life. There's a quality in those
relationships. And there's some that are
unbalanced and kind of recognizing like if we say no to
somebody, their reaction to it is kind of a good sign of like,
where is this relationship at? You know, where is this
(18:03):
friendship? And I think in some ways that's
a work relationship too. Like if you've needed me to show
up and cover and I have and there's a place where I'm
telling you like I can't. And you know, somebody's trying
to like course you or pressure you or things like that.
Like, you know, no, is a complete sentence at times, you
(18:25):
know, like, and that can be really hard.
And there's like work dynamics, yeah.
I think it's just making sure you're still, you know, with all
this being said, some ways, I mean a little bit of ways to
help and something that I continuously have to work on is
like taking care of myself. And what does that look like for
me? And you know, I brought up the
hot end yoga and I laugh about it.
(18:47):
I never thought I would do yoga or like yoga.
And then I got challenged and encouraged to go and I
absolutely love it. And this one class specifically,
I love going to because like I said, it feels like it's pretty
much the only place that I can turn my brain off.
And, and sometimes that's even hard.
But, and I like have to tell myself throughout the class
like, hey, focus. But still, that's better than
(19:10):
what I usually do and stretch and like allow my like just take
care of myself for an hour and ahalf, you know?
So I challenge people for that to like trying something new,
finding something else you can do for, you know, finding the
things that you really love and continue to do them.
I just told you how this whole week I've been like, I'm behind,
I'm behind, I'm behind. And yet on the other hand, I was
(19:32):
like, I just don't even feel good about myself because I
haven't gone to any of my classes and I haven't, you know,
and I was like, I needed to really just get back into that
for my own mindset. Yeah, and I've probably
mentioned this on here before, but like a kind of classic
therapy kind of intervention is this kind of magic wand, right?
(19:53):
Like if I had a magic wand and Icould give it to you, you know,
and you could change anything inyour life, you know, what would
that look like? And anytime that that's come up
in session with me like a nine times out of 10 with that magic
wand, what people want is more time, right?
And it's like, oh, well, that's something we can really explore
(20:15):
and look at like, you know, whatare the things that are taking
your time? And like, how do we empower
ourselves to say like, Hey, thisis we're spending too much time
and this thing that we don't want to be doing or, you know,
here in Texas, like my commute'sinsane and you know, things like
(20:36):
that. So I think that's important
thing to explore. And especially I think with this
whole idea of burnout, it's a lot about your time and what
you're spending your time and energy doing, which I wanted to
reference this book. I like got it ready and I
haven't even referenced it. So the book is Burnout.
So that hopefully is easy to remember The secret to unlocking
(20:57):
stress cycle and it's by Emily and Amelia Nagasaki Key, I think
is what that is. But it's just really, I mean,
it's a good reference point in terms of like exploring
different ways to kind of avoid again, this place of getting
really crispy, especially when you're in this career for a long
time. You know, we've talked about
here about, you know, you could really be eaten up and spit out.
(21:21):
And so these are some ways that you can explore kind of taking
care of you in these situations.Yeah.
Absolutely. And so I guess that brings us to
the point of what we kind of concluded like you know from the
and prior to hitting record and we hope that it comes across as
a positive thing, right, in several ways.
(21:41):
One for us like ourselves, Jennifer and I and then two for
you guys and the content and what we can bring to the table.
But I think and is it time? Is it OK that I share?
Right. Yeah, No, it is time and.
That we have decided that instead of releasing an episode
every other week, that we are going to try to do once a month.
And I think one that will give us a little bit more content and
(22:03):
availability, especially if we do want to have guests on here
and do those things. It's not so scrunch, it's not so
pressured. A little bit more flexibility in
our time and in even producer, right, Like being able to listen
to us and get that done. That gives them more time.
Again, if this notion is taking back control of time, still
being able to do the things we love, but we have to try to find
(22:24):
a little bit of a change to makeit, to make it even better for
us, right? Right.
And I think it again, it's this idea of like, we're so
appreciative of your time and werespect it.
And what we don't want to do is come in and rush things or not.
I mean, your time is valuable. The fact that you're giving us
our voices a chance, like we really just want to respect
(22:47):
that. And we think this is a better
option than us just being like throwing up our hands and saying
we're done. Like to say like, no, we care
about this. We want to continue like it is
important our experiences of coming in families of first
responders and this is an important community and we don't
(23:07):
want to give up on that. And this is how we just like,
give our commitment to y'all in the best way for sure.
You're shaking your head, so I hope that's a good sign, right?
Yeah, I'm loving this. I'm loving this very much.
And that's why I said to you that's why I started.
It was like, I hope people see this as a positive.
Like we don't want to bum anybody out, of course by not
doing every other. But it's not that we're going
anywhere. We want to dedicate the the
(23:29):
appropriate time and energy thatthey deserve just as much as we
deserve towards this. And it's something we very much
love. I love when the call hits home.
I love our listeners. I love where it's gotten us.
It's such a beautiful thing. And so you're, I don't think it
should go anywhere. We just got to make sure we we
figure out what that best pattern process, whatever you
want to call it is for us. Well, I always love working
(23:50):
smarter, not harder like, you know, and with schedules and
Ashley, you know, mentioning, I mean, she definitely just needs
a personal assistant, but you know, that's just not the budget
yet. That I asked my dad.
I literally asked him. I was like, dad, like, because
something came up while I was atIleta and I was like, I don't
know. He was like, that'd be so cool
(24:11):
if you could kind of get into doing this and that.
And I was like, yeah. And so like, are you going to
help me? Like, are you going to, you
know, like book my hotels and you know, like, make sure stay
on. I was like, you could be my
assistant. You can travel with me.
And he said I'm too expensive for you.
I was like, oh, thank you, Dad. Like, right, yeah, we can
(24:32):
probably never afford him for sure.
Ever for sure. But it's funny to do that
because yeah, yeah, that personal assistant thing isn't
necessarily wrong. No.
Really wrong. Yeah, Chief needs to look at the
budget and see how to make that happen for you.
He. Has been pushing.
I got to get I like he's going to listen to me like they talked
(24:53):
about me again. I got to give him.
He has been like, hey, like, keep networking.
Like maybe you should get an intern.
Like he has been trying to help because he sees how much that I
do. But then I get like, this is a
me thing. I personalize and I get the
other day I looked at him and I was like, do you just not
believe in me? Like do not believe that I can
handle it all. And he looked at me like, are
(25:14):
you crazy? That is not what I'm saying.
But I was like, why do you keep saying that?
And he's like, because you need a break.
Yeah, don't need a break. Like.
And I was like, OK, fair, fair, fair, fair.
So. It's hard sometimes, you know,
especially like the when you're running a business.
I mean, yeah, God just had to dotaxes and I didn't go to school
to do taxes like. You know there are.
(25:37):
Like. Little.
Things that you have to like andyou know, I, I definitely know,
I mean especially our firefighters like they all have
their contracting business too, like they, they get.
It all of them. But yeah, like it, it's hard
running a small business and it's it's own, like you're
(25:58):
wearing lots of hats just doing that job alone and to mention
all the other things that you'redoing.
So, but yeah, so we're excited to check in with you once a
month and we'll be in your birthday month next.
Oh wait. July.
July. July is my yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's our birthday month.
Yes. I don't know why I always want
(26:20):
to put you in June, but anyways.But yeah, so we'll, we, we will
do that. We will see in June.
Will it be? Yes again.
And we'll keep going from there.Yeah, we'll see you guys have a
good one. Thanks again for listening when
the call hits home. And what do you got for us,
Ashley? We.
Got that? When the call hits home.
Still, no matter what, Jennifer and I are here for you, all
right? Why?
Hi, welcome back to When the Call Hits Home.
I'm Jennifer. And I'm Ashley.
And we are happy to be back on. And it's just Ashley and I
today, which is I think important because we had some
things that we wanted to talk toyou guys about just about when
the call hits home. And yeah, so it's just us today.
(00:21):
Yeah, I think it is important for us to talk about.
And I think, you know, it's being kind of like we talked
about already, this one being a little bit more real, a little
bit more wrong in terms of just life and where life can take us
sometimes. And I don't know if it's OK,
Jennifer, but maybe I start by talking a little bit about my
role. And yes, please do.
(00:42):
So I think a lot of people, obviously they know me from this
podcast, but they maybe don't realize that like I kind of have
my I don't even know what is is there a saying for this hand and
everything? So I have my own private
practice, right, where we have like other clinicians here, a
(01:02):
whole front desk and a biller and so kind of have to run that.
And then I do have a co-owner though, she's amazing and it's
helpful to have somebody else too.
But that's one part of my life. Another part of my life is the
worst work that I do with first responders.
And in that I do contract with several different departments in
terms of just like neck up checkUPS or critical incidences, you
(01:24):
know, obviously seeing people individually for therapy and,
and all that. But my primary role now has been
with the Sheriff's Office, whicha lot of people are familiar
with since we've had chief on here and things like that.
But I think what we don't necessarily talk a lot about is
this notion of like, Hey, because I have all that going
on, sometimes it's hard for me to dedicate the time that I
probably should to the podcast, right?
(01:45):
Because my, my brain and my energy is everywhere.
And it's a very beautiful thing.It's a positive thing a lot of
the times, but there are momentswhere it's absolutely
exhausting. Like this week, Jennifer and I
were supposed to record earlier in the week and didn't work out
that way 'cause I had some events unfold over the weekend
and then I had a meeting when wewere supposed to record.
(02:07):
And then from that meeting I went into having to work at
like, I think I, you know, 3 something in the morning, got
woken up and then just kind of been behind the ball since then.
And it and it is something that,you know, again, in the moment,
absolutely my favorite thing in this world because this is my
passion, being able to help first responders being there in
(02:29):
some of these tough moments. But then it sets everything else
behind. Jennifer and I were just talking
about this fact that like I hadn't slept.
And I am not the human that can go on little sleep.
I'm just not. I get pretty cranky and I can
feel my whole self just like fading.
And so yesterday I had to make some tougher decisions for
(02:51):
myself because I want to be there for everybody and make
sure I'm doing a good job in every way.
But I couldn't, I couldn't really be there if I couldn't
show up for myself. And I realized that like, I need
sleep desperately. I'm not going to be any good to
anybody when I'm feeling this way, when I'm so drained that I
can't even keep my eyes open. So I slept, it took a nap, and
it was solid. And then it was like solid
(03:13):
night's sleep. I woke up feeling completely
refreshed. But it just kind of brought us
to this topic of like 1. How do we prioritize the podcast
and then like, what is, you know, the fear of us burning out
or the fear of, you know, not having the capacity to do things
anymore and how do we prioritizethem?
Jennifer, I'm going to hand it over to you because I think you
(03:34):
made such a good point just now about what does that look like
sometimes, you know, and, and how do we approach it?
Yeah. Well, one, you know, I just want
to come back to how much we are always grateful and thankful for
our listeners. You know, this podcast would not
exist if it wasn't for y'all that listen.
(03:55):
And yeah, you know, Ashley, I appreciate you sharing about how
full just your professional lifeis.
And you know, you are such an incredible talented clinician.
But I think it's important for our listeners to know like you
have a life and family outside of your work too.
Like I think sometimes we can soover identify with our careers.
(04:16):
That's just kind of our part of our culture as you know, what do
you do for a living and things? But I also think that you have a
full life with friends and family that you care deeply for
and prioritize too. And it can be really hard to
prioritize all those things and you didn't even mention, I don't
know, maybe edit this out but like there's a new chapter 2 in
(04:39):
your career about. Yeah.
Professing, I don't know, am I allowed to?
Are we allowed to tell her aboutthat?
Oh yeah, I did accept a positionas a adjunct professor at a
college up by me so. So again, Ashley, it was booked
and busy and one thing that I often when I, you know, we're
messaging are wonderful guests that have been on the show.
(05:02):
It's like the hardest thing about podcasting is really
trying to get three adults schedules to align like that.
It's a lot of moving parts for sure.
But yeah, so Ashley and I were having a discussion and we just
really wanted to bring it to youguys just about we have loved
doing this podcast. It has been such a passion
(05:25):
project and so easy and so many ways in terms of how things have
like, obviously we work for them, but they've also kind of
fallen in our laps in some ways.And it's been beautiful.
And it's just been a little bit of a tougher season.
And so we're just kind of re evaluating that.
And in that re evaluation, it is, you know, I think something
(05:47):
that comes up in people's careerand I this a lot with first
responders, especially ones thatare been at the job for more
than a year, is that, you know, burnout is a real thing and that
we can really, I would say, you know, can get really crispy with
things. And I think some signs of
(06:08):
burnout are, you know, when you don't have energy, when it feels
like it's non-stop that you never get a break, you get a
break, you get a vacation and it's just like you didn't even
have it didn't even exist. And some of the stuff that we
talked about with, you know, being child to 1st responders
than the family piece of like recognizing I'm coming home and
(06:30):
I'm really snippy with my familyor I've had times as a parent of
like, you know, I love my kid and yet can they please just go
in the other room and watch TV so I can like have 5 minutes to
myself. Like, you know, and, and I'm not
a first responder. So I think that that's a really
normal experience. And so I think to kind of
evaluate that is important for people in this career and like,
(06:56):
what can you do to burn out? And I think Ashley and I, I hope
this is OK Ashley, you know, is us being really honest with each
other and kind of where are we at?
And sometimes it's important to recognize like, OK, what are our
priorities? And that doesn't mean that we
don't care about something or something's not a priority to
ourselves. But to recognize if I want to
(07:17):
be, if I want to do a good job, I have to be recognized.
Like, what can I give of myself to everything?
And sometimes it is like, I justneed to take a vacation day.
Like I have to take that. And it sucks.
I might be letting people down or disappointing people, but
sometimes, you know, I just haveto do that.
(07:38):
The one thing that I've always lectured for responders on is
this, you know, this hyper vigilance that we can get in
sometimes. And like, you know, it does suck
when you go on vacation, you come back and your inbox is full
with 1000 things. But like, if you can't go on
vacation without feeling like you got to check your e-mail,
(07:58):
like, you know, what's our relationship to this job kind of
thing? And like those things can be
hard to evaluate. And I've had to work with a lot
of people about, you know, I feel like if I'm taking care of
myself personally, then that means I'm bad at my job.
(08:19):
And I think that that's a real black and white thinking.
And sometimes we could be way better at our job when we're
taking that time to evaluate andsay, hey, you know, I am a human
being in this. And again, this idea of our
families, right? Like.
Yeah. There's sometimes when we have
to back up and say like, I'm notthis shy.
(08:42):
I'm I'm my child's parent and mychild's needing this right now.
What does that look like? As usual I feel like I just went
on a tangent, but. No, I think it's a great one.
I mean, because it's also very, very true, right.
And like, I think I'll be, I mean, I'm always honest in terms
of like being, of course. You are.
I know it's bad sometimes, right?
(09:03):
So much truth. So like, I have so much passion
for what I do in my career that like, yeah, I probably do hinder
myself personally because of that, you know?
And it's, and I know we've talked about this, but sometimes
when life is really rough, it's so much easier to continue to
pour into something else and stop and take that reflection.
Yeah, You know, it's a I, I guess it's kind of a way of
(09:25):
avoidance, but it doesn't make you feel like you're avoiding
'cause you're feeling full. On another side, I am very
blessed with where I'm at because everybody is very like,
hey, Doc G, you're gonna, you'regonna run out.
Like, are you taking care of you?
Are you, you know, do you have atherapist?
Are you, you know, like very supportive, encouraging of me
(09:48):
doing these things, of me takingcare of myself.
And that's what's wild is a lot of the times I feel like when I
talk to people, myself included,it's really it's our own thought
process. It's our internal thought
process. That's like kind of blocking
this notion of like, you know, it's OK, it is OK to take care
of yourself. It is OK to hit pause or like
you're saying, reevaluate our priorities and say how can we
(10:10):
shift some things around to to do what we need to do in life to
make sure we're OK? Right.
Well, and I think that that's such a thing that can happen
when we're in professions that are in service to others, right?
We can really see that in our peers and our colleagues.
And, you know, like, hey, you OK, man?
Are you OK? Like, take care of yourself.
(10:31):
Take care of yourself. And that's such good advice that
we can dole out and not always the advice that we take.
And what I see in terms of that theme is this idea of how
selfish that feels. That feels really selfish.
You know, if I have somebody that or you know, we're short
(10:52):
staffed at work and they need meto cover the shift, well, I'm
being selfish if I'm not doing that.
And, and I think it's sometimes about, you know, checking your
temperature. I think that there's times where
it's like I'm exhausted and I just want to sit on my couch all
day, but I can muscle through this shift and be OK.
(11:13):
And other times where it is like, no, I, I've worked 30 days
in a row. I need this day off And that,
you know, there are labor laws like you're not supposed to work
like so many hours too, right? But you know, I, I see that kind
of cycle that people can get in to think if I'm not showing up,
(11:37):
then who is going to show up? And if I'm not willing to do it?
And it can really be again, this, this place of feeling
really selfish if I'm thinking about what my needs are.
And you know, what I've kind of encouraged in that is like, what
would balance look like? Because what I see happen and
(11:59):
Ashley, you don't you tell me ifthis is something you've ever
experienced as I see these people that are so selfless in
these acts. And, and, and again, it's it's
about showing up there for my team or my brothers and sisters,
or I know if I needed them, they'd show up for me.
So I want to show up for them. Those are all a wonderful value
(12:20):
system for sure. But I think happens in those
situations where we are showing up in such a way and putting
ourselves last, that then we become the ultimate kind of
opposite of what we want to be. And that, you know, the, the
wheels fall off the cart and we go from being so selfless to
(12:41):
then it really does turn into the selfishness because we get
to those places of burnout. Our attitude completely changes.
We go from feeling like we want to help people to feeling like
people are taking advantage of us.
And it becomes this kind of realrebellion of that value system
that we have about, you know, taking care of others and being
(13:01):
into service of others. And I had this said by an
another colleague that said it beautifully.
I don't know that I'll capture it, but compassion without
boundaries can be really dangerous.
And it is this idea of like, we have this care for others and
this, you know, openness. And if we don't have a boundary
(13:23):
with that, again, it's that thing of we become a doormat or
people take from our will so much that we're all dried out.
And I think it's just important to kind of recognize when that's
happening for you. Yeah, actually really love that.
And I'm, it's resonating a lot with me actually, right before
we jumped on here. So it's kind of funny that this
(13:44):
is all coming full circle. You were dead on in terms of my
personal life, right? And I absolutely love my family.
Like if anybody knows me, they know that I will go above and
beyond for everybody in my family.
And it's just what it is. Being with my family definitely
can refill my cup, but I will goout of my way to make something
happen, which is where it can bedraining for me, if that makes
(14:06):
sense. And so like, this weekend coming
up, it's a big weekend, right? So one of my cousins is coming
home from being in Australia, which is so cool.
And you know, my dad's birthday is Saturday.
Happy birthday dad. Can't believe.
He's going to be 59. That's wild.
And then Sunday's Mother's Day, right?
(14:27):
And so it was this notion of, hey, we have this family dinner
on Friday night and then we havedad's birthday thing on
Saturday, and then we have Mother's Day on Sunday.
And I was like, oh, this sounds great.
This all sounds great. And then this event transpired
this week in which has, like I, I said, has kind of set me back
just in terms of like sleep and scheduling and all these things.
And on Friday now I'm running debriefs.
(14:49):
And that's again, that's a part of my job that I love very much.
And my brain right away was like, OK, it's no problem.
Like I'll, I can still get to the dinner.
It might be I might be a little late.
Like if a debrief runs a little late, I might be a little late
and but I could still make it. I'll still make it happen.
And then this whole other part of me was like, I'm so tired.
(15:10):
Like I'm running and I, you know, nobody in my family
expects me to be there if I can't be there.
But it's kind of pressure and feeling bad, right?
Probably FOMO too, right? Just like wanting to be there.
And I finally was like, I was going to do like a play it by
ear tomorrow thing. And then I was like, no, like
(15:31):
what I really want to do is hit my hot Ian yoga class because
that's the one thing that has I have found to like literally put
my body at ease. And then I want to wake up in
the morning and go to my favorite thing in the world,
which is the farmers market here.
And well, OK, besides the bears and.
It's just not football season right now, Ashley.
(15:52):
We get it. Yes, yes.
And then I can go to my dad's and go to his party at night and
spend the night and go to Mother's Day.
Like, I don't have to make everything happen, right?
And I will do that. Like, I will push myself, but I.
But then the whole time I'm justexhausted.
And I'm like, why do I keep doing this to myself?
Doesn't mean I love anybody less.
(16:14):
Yeah, they love me less, Right? But like, it's just that notion
of being able to say no, like those boundaries put them in
place and realize like, no, I got to take care of me for a
minute here. Mm Hmm.
Yeah. I mean, I think that's
important. And I think that recognizing too
that people that support us can understand and respect that
(16:34):
boundary. So doesn't mean that they're not
going to be upset or bummed thatthey're going to miss you.
And they might say like, hey, you know, man, that sucks.
We really wanted to have you there, but also can be
understanding. And I've found that, you know,
over the years of like, oh, the people that can really respect
that I can't be at 20 places at once or I've made this other
(16:56):
commitment to somebody else before, you know, they can
really respect that. And I'll say, you know, my own
experience of, you know, moving out of state and being at a
place that, like, I had a lot offriends and commitments and
things that, you know, I was very grateful for and, and
moving kind of recognizing, oh, some of these relationships.
(17:21):
And now, Steve, we're a little bit more one way than a two way
St. And that's, you know, a hard
thing. And I definitely am so grateful
for those friendships and relationships.
And it's, you know, I would be being dishonest if I wasn't
saying like, there's not some sadness with that at times, but
(17:42):
it is kind of recognizing like there are people that will show
up for us in life. There's a quality in those
relationships. And there's some that are
unbalanced and kind of recognizing like if we say no to
somebody, their reaction to it is kind of a good sign of like,
where is this relationship at? You know, where is this
(18:03):
friendship? And I think in some ways that's
a work relationship too. Like if you've needed me to show
up and cover and I have and there's a place where I'm
telling you like I can't. And you know, somebody's trying
to like course you or pressure you or things like that.
Like, you know, no, is a complete sentence at times, you
(18:25):
know, like, and that can be really hard.
And there's like work dynamics, yeah.
I think it's just making sure you're still, you know, with all
this being said, some ways, I mean a little bit of ways to
help and something that I continuously have to work on is
like taking care of myself. And what does that look like for
me? And you know, I brought up the
hot end yoga and I laugh about it.
(18:47):
I never thought I would do yoga or like yoga.
And then I got challenged and encouraged to go and I
absolutely love it. And this one class specifically,
I love going to because like I said, it feels like it's pretty
much the only place that I can turn my brain off.
And, and sometimes that's even hard.
But, and I like have to tell myself throughout the class
like, hey, focus. But still, that's better than
(19:10):
what I usually do and stretch and like allow my like just take
care of myself for an hour and ahalf, you know?
So I challenge people for that to like trying something new,
finding something else you can do for, you know, finding the
things that you really love and continue to do them.
I just told you how this whole week I've been like, I'm behind,
I'm behind, I'm behind. And yet on the other hand, I was
(19:32):
like, I just don't even feel good about myself because I
haven't gone to any of my classes and I haven't, you know,
and I was like, I needed to really just get back into that
for my own mindset. Yeah, and I've probably
mentioned this on here before, but like a kind of classic
therapy kind of intervention is this kind of magic wand, right?
(19:53):
Like if I had a magic wand and Icould give it to you, you know,
and you could change anything inyour life, you know, what would
that look like? And anytime that that's come up
in session with me like a nine times out of 10 with that magic
wand, what people want is more time, right?
And it's like, oh, well, that's something we can really explore
(20:15):
and look at like, you know, whatare the things that are taking
your time? And like, how do we empower
ourselves to say like, Hey, thisis we're spending too much time
and this thing that we don't want to be doing or, you know,
here in Texas, like my commute'sinsane and you know, things like
(20:36):
that. So I think that's important
thing to explore. And especially I think with this
whole idea of burnout, it's a lot about your time and what
you're spending your time and energy doing, which I wanted to
reference this book. I like got it ready and I
haven't even referenced it. So the book is Burnout.
So that hopefully is easy to remember The secret to unlocking
(20:57):
stress cycle and it's by Emily and Amelia Nagasaki Key, I think
is what that is. But it's just really, I mean,
it's a good reference point in terms of like exploring
different ways to kind of avoid again, this place of getting
really crispy, especially when you're in this career for a long
time. You know, we've talked about
here about, you know, you could really be eaten up and spit out.
(21:21):
And so these are some ways that you can explore kind of taking
care of you in these situations.Yeah.
Absolutely. And so I guess that brings us to
the point of what we kind of concluded like you know from the
and prior to hitting record and we hope that it comes across as
a positive thing, right, in several ways.
(21:41):
One for us like ourselves, Jennifer and I and then two for
you guys and the content and what we can bring to the table.
But I think and is it time? Is it OK that I share?
Right. Yeah, No, it is time and.
That we have decided that instead of releasing an episode
every other week, that we are going to try to do once a month.
And I think one that will give us a little bit more content and
(22:03):
availability, especially if we do want to have guests on here
and do those things. It's not so scrunch, it's not so
pressured. A little bit more flexibility in
our time and in even producer, right, Like being able to listen
to us and get that done. That gives them more time.
Again, if this notion is taking back control of time, still
being able to do the things we love, but we have to try to find
(22:24):
a little bit of a change to makeit, to make it even better for
us, right? Right.
And I think it again, it's this idea of like, we're so
appreciative of your time and werespect it.
And what we don't want to do is come in and rush things or not.
I mean, your time is valuable. The fact that you're giving us
our voices a chance, like we really just want to respect
(22:47):
that. And we think this is a better
option than us just being like throwing up our hands and saying
we're done. Like to say like, no, we care
about this. We want to continue like it is
important our experiences of coming in families of first
responders and this is an important community and we don't
(23:07):
want to give up on that. And this is how we just like,
give our commitment to y'all in the best way for sure.
You're shaking your head, so I hope that's a good sign, right?
Yeah, I'm loving this. I'm loving this very much.
And that's why I said to you that's why I started.
It was like, I hope people see this as a positive.
Like we don't want to bum anybody out, of course by not
doing every other. But it's not that we're going
anywhere. We want to dedicate the the
(23:29):
appropriate time and energy thatthey deserve just as much as we
deserve towards this. And it's something we very much
love. I love when the call hits home.
I love our listeners. I love where it's gotten us.
It's such a beautiful thing. And so you're, I don't think it
should go anywhere. We just got to make sure we we
figure out what that best pattern process, whatever you
want to call it is for us. Well, I always love working
(23:50):
smarter, not harder like, you know, and with schedules and
Ashley, you know, mentioning, I mean, she definitely just needs
a personal assistant, but you know, that's just not the budget
yet. That I asked my dad.
I literally asked him. I was like, dad, like, because
something came up while I was atIleta and I was like, I don't
know. He was like, that'd be so cool
(24:11):
if you could kind of get into doing this and that.
And I was like, yeah. And so like, are you going to
help me? Like, are you going to, you
know, like book my hotels and you know, like, make sure stay
on. I was like, you could be my
assistant. You can travel with me.
And he said I'm too expensive for you.
I was like, oh, thank you, Dad. Like, right, yeah, we can
(24:32):
probably never afford him for sure.
Ever for sure. But it's funny to do that
because yeah, yeah, that personal assistant thing isn't
necessarily wrong. No.
Really wrong. Yeah, Chief needs to look at the
budget and see how to make that happen for you.
He. Has been pushing.
I got to get I like he's going to listen to me like they talked
(24:53):
about me again. I got to give him.
He has been like, hey, like, keep networking.
Like maybe you should get an intern.
Like he has been trying to help because he sees how much that I
do. But then I get like, this is a
me thing. I personalize and I get the
other day I looked at him and I was like, do you just not
believe in me? Like do not believe that I can
handle it all. And he looked at me like, are
(25:14):
you crazy? That is not what I'm saying.
But I was like, why do you keep saying that?
And he's like, because you need a break.
Yeah, don't need a break. Like.
And I was like, OK, fair, fair, fair, fair.
So. It's hard sometimes, you know,
especially like the when you're running a business.
I mean, yeah, God just had to dotaxes and I didn't go to school
to do taxes like. You know there are.
(25:37):
Like. Little.
Things that you have to like andyou know, I, I definitely know,
I mean especially our firefighters like they all have
their contracting business too, like they, they get.
It all of them. But yeah, like it, it's hard
running a small business and it's it's own, like you're
(25:58):
wearing lots of hats just doing that job alone and to mention
all the other things that you'redoing.
So, but yeah, so we're excited to check in with you once a
month and we'll be in your birthday month next.
Oh wait. July.
July. July is my yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's our birthday month.
Yes. I don't know why I always want
(26:20):
to put you in June, but anyways.But yeah, so we'll, we, we will
do that. We will see in June.
Will it be? Yes again.
And we'll keep going from there.Yeah, we'll see you guys have a
good one. Thanks again for listening when
the call hits home. And what do you got for us,
Ashley? We.
Got that? When the call hits home.
Still, no matter what, Jennifer and I are here for you, all
right? Why?
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.