March 24, 2025 • 30 mins
Sahil Bloom is the newly minted author of NYT Best Seller, The Five Types of Wealth.
In this condensed discussion from a book club review, Sahil reveals how to treat time as an equal commodity to money and why "time wealth" is so important to grasp before it gets too late.
Sahil also provides encouragement to push past imposter syndrome, in addition to cultivating deep & meaningful relationships!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You need to recognize that anything above zero
compounds positively.
Anything above zero compoundsthe tiny thing.
The tiny little thing that youcan do in your relationships is
better than doing nothing.
Ambitious people we allowoptimal to get in the way of
beneficial.
So we tell ourselves if I don'thave an hour to work out, I'm
just not going to work out today.
Or if I don't have an hour tospend time with this person, I'm
(00:22):
just not going to do anything.
But the reality is that thelittle thing still stacks up
positively over the long run.
So, on a daily basis, find someway to invest in your
relationships.
That could be as simple assending a text to a friend when
you're thinking about them.
If you think something niceabout someone, let them know.
Right then Send the text, sendthe message.
Do the two-minute phone callwhen you're on your walk to work
(00:43):
.
Do that little thing and it'llstack up positively in your life
.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Wednesday Podcast, a weekly
resource thoughtfully crafted tohelp people build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
week where you'll learn frommyself or a renowned expert in
(01:13):
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We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
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(01:33):
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Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
Have you ever thought aboutthere being more than one type
of wealth in this world?
Growing up, many of us mayassociate wealth with monetary
means, our financial wealth, ouraccess to capital, our ability
(01:57):
to earn money, wealth being asingular thing that is tied to
money.
But what if wealth was anoverarching concept that touched
the most important elements ofour lives?
What if we treated time as thesame type of commodity as we do?
(02:19):
Money Meaning that, what if youcould be wealthy in terms of
your time, as if it was afinancial asset?
What if you could be wealthy asit relates to your mental
health and how strong you areand how resilient you are and
(02:40):
how fortified your mind is?
What if wealth could also beassociated with your physical
state?
The five types of wealth justcame out from Sal Hillblum, who
is one of the most popularauthors in the world right now,
continues to remain in the top10 charts of the New York Times
(03:02):
bestselling list, and we had theopportunity to have him with us
as part of the Unshakable Crewbook club launch, and he was our
first guest speaker.
An incredible, incredible,incredible, incredible
opportunity.
Many of you know who Sahil is.
(03:24):
You probably have read his bookor have it, or, if not, I
highly encourage you to get hisbook, the Five Types of Wealth,
which I'm sharing in thisinterview.
Snippets of our conversationwith Sahil, where I interviewed
him live in front of ouraudience and asked questions
(03:45):
about some of the concepts andmost powerful frameworks that
can be extracted from this book.
What I really extracted fromthis conversation that I believe
is most useful for you all arethe concepts of time wealth,
(04:05):
mental wealth, and then, at thevery end, something that you may
find surprising about Sahil andreally how he revealed that he
is just as human and normal asall of us, and you'll find that
out when he talks about the booklaunch.
You may think it was going tobe the best day of his life, but
(04:29):
stay to the end and hear hisanswer there and then hear what
was running through his mind, asnow one of the top selling
authors in the world maysurprise you and encourage you
to keep going on your pursuit,to maybe even go even harder on
(04:52):
your pursuit, because what youhear him say again it will be
surprising, but I believe,surprisingly encouraging that we
all feel our own emotions.
It doesn't matter if we're atthe top of our game, just
getting started best in theworld, not the best in the world
amateur expert you keep going.
(05:15):
But I really want to come backto the concept of time wealth
that especially the majority ofus listening are in our
mid-career, have an abundance oftime on our hands, provided the
big man allows us to stay herefor at least 80 years, which is,
I believe, the average lifespan.
(05:35):
Now we have an abundance oftime and let's start treating
that time, just as we would, aprecious commodity, even like
money.
So enjoy this conversation.
Be mindful of the time that wedo have in this world and the
(06:00):
essence of what it means to be atime billionaire, which you're
about to find out here in abouttwo minutes.
Be mindful of the five types ofwealth as it relates to your
time, your social wealth, yourmental wealth, physical wealth,
financial wealth, and how youcan nurture each of them so that
(06:23):
you can create the life thatyou ultimately desire, and
create your dream life, as Sahilbeautifully lays out for us.
The next thing as encouragementhere, because a lot of folks
have been asking this questionhow did you get one of the top
selling authors in the world tocome and speak to your group?
(06:45):
Because the reality is at thiscurrent moment.
You know, sahil has been on thebiggest podcasts in the world
I'm not there yet and,relatively speaking, when today
is still a relatively small show.
Same thing with the UnshakableCrew and the Unshakable
Discipline Mastermind, which iswho he came to speak to.
It is still small, but he putout there into the world.
(07:08):
If anybody has a book club of 10or more people, then let me
know and I would love to comeand speak to you guys in person
or I'll do some virtuals.
I didn't even think twice aboutit Didn't even have a book club
yet but I knew that, a this isa hell of an opportunity and, b
I know I can get 10 plus peopleinto a book club meeting and
(07:30):
include this as part of mymastermind meeting cadence.
Therefore, didn't even take twoseconds to think about it and
reached out to Sahil and he gotback almost instantly.
So stop asking the how?
Questions in life people, andjust start taking action on
whatever it is that you want,whatever it is that is most
(07:53):
important to you.
Now enjoy this conversation withSahil and get your copy of the
five types of wealth.
Let's go.
We have 30 minutes together,and one thing that rings true
throughout multiple sections ofthe book is time and its
(08:17):
importance, and many of us areearly career, mid-career folks
that may believe we have anabundance of time on our hands.
How has your relationship withtime shifted?
And really, what was it thatled to this discovery that, hey,
maybe time isn't so abundantand we should really be more
(08:40):
mindful of what we have on ourhands right now?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I mean the real transformative moment on my
journey I share in the firstline of the book, which was this
conversation with this oldfriend of mine pointing out,
really, just the mortality of myparents, and that you know the
amount of time that you haveleft with the people that you
care about most in the world.
The amount of moments that youhave for all of these things is
(09:06):
much more finite and limitedthan we care to believe, and
when we're young in particular,time is sort of one of those
things when you think about it,that you think about just about
none for your entire life, andthen at the very end, it's the
only thing you think about, butthen it's too late, you can't do
anything about it at that point, and so that awareness, like
pulling that awareness forwardinto your present reality and
(09:28):
recognizing that you canactually take actions to
influence and create time in acertain way, is such a powerful
realization for everyone's life.
And what I mean by that is likewe made a decision, we took an
action, we decided to move, Ileft my job, we made this big
change and in that one decisionwe took the number 15 more times
(09:50):
before my parents were gone,and jumped it into the hundreds.
I mean, I see my parentsmultiple times a month.
They're a huge part of my son,their grandson's life.
We took an action and actuallycreated time with the people
that we care about most in theworld, and in that there's this
really empowering idea, which isthat you are in much more
control of your time than youthink.
(10:10):
It's very easy to assume thattime is just this passive thing
that just flows and you can't doanything about it.
That is like the ancient Greekword chronos.
It's like chronological, justquantitative, linear time, and
what you're saying is that Iactually have the power to
influence these certain moments,to lean into certain moments,
to take advantage of thesemagical windows of time when
(10:33):
certain people occupy our livesin a very differentiated way,
and that awareness is really thespark for everything dynamic
characteristic this idea ofKairos in ancient Greece.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You start operating differently, you start living
differently, you start payingattention to things that you
previously had just glazed overOne thing that really hit hard
as I was reading the book abouttime.
In addition to what youmentioned that having 15 visits
left with your parentspotentially having 15 visits
left with your parentspotentially if you stayed on the
(11:10):
West Coast is this concept of atime billionaire, and I believe
that's something that's reallymemorable.
And you talk about how youwouldn't want to trade lives and
many of us wouldn't want totrade lives with Warren.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Buffett.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Now, without knowing the concept of a time
billionaire, some people mightthink well, why wouldn't you
want to trade lives?
He's a billionaire and has allthese things.
So can you expand on that alittle bit more and put the time
billionaire concept in ourthoughts?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, the concept of a time billionaire I first heard
from an investor named GrahamDuncan, and when I spoke with
him, he basically said thegenesis of it in his life was
that he was interviewing allthese young people to join his
investment firm, and what herecognized was that all of them
shared one thing in common,which was that they wanted to
become billionaires.
They all wanted to make abillion dollars, and what he
(12:01):
said was that I realized thatthey were all billionaires in
one very important way, whichwas they were time billionaires.
A billion seconds is about 30years, so when you're 20 years
old, you have roughly 2 billionseconds left in your life.
When you're 50, you have abouta billion seconds left.
But we don't relate to time inthat way.
We don't think about the factthat time is actually our most
precious asset, that it's theonly thing that you can't get
(12:23):
more of, that you can't get back, and so that question that I
bring up in the book of wouldyou trade lives with Warren
Buffett is a really importantway to actually internalize this
idea.
Which is to say, warren Buffettis worth $130 billion, he has
access to absolutely anyone inthe world, he flies around on a
Boeing business jet.
There's no way that you wouldever agree to trade the amount
(12:46):
of time he has left for all themoney in the world.
And on the flip side, he wouldgive anything to be in your
shoes, to be your age.
He'd give up every singledollar that he has to do that.
And so what you recognize inthat question is your time has,
quite literally, incalculablevalue.
I mean incalculable value.
And yet, on a daily basis, howmuch are you really appreciating
(13:07):
that asset?
How much are you sitting aroundscrolling on your phone,
comparing yourself to otherpeople, stressing about things
in the future, anxiety overthings in the past, spending
time saying yes to low valueactivities, things that are not
bringing you energy in your life, doing all of these things that
are wasting the one mostprecious thing that we really
(13:27):
have in our lives?
And so internalizing thatconcept, thinking about that,
recognizing that we all need totune in much more to our time
and really start treating itwith that elevated reverence, if
you will, is a really, reallyimportant concept and central to
this entire idea.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Really appreciate that.
One thing I love about the bookSahil is that there's so many
amazing studies and frameworksand jumping into social wealth.
You share a study between twogroups of folks in Boston,
groups of young males that comefrom more fortunate upbringings
(14:09):
and then those that come fromless fortunate upbringings, and
they're looking at therelationship between that and
the relationships that they havelater in life.
On page 137, this study led tothe key to aging.
The key to healthy aging isrelationships, relationships,
relationships.
The study has found that strong, healthy relationships are the
(14:33):
best predict in your life todaythat have influenced you and
(14:53):
helped you get where you are.
What are some things that tipsyou have in terms of captivating
, deep, meaningful relationshipsthat we can take away?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean the study you reference.
It's called the Harvard studyof adult development.
I would personally argue that Ithink it's the most important
study of the last 100 years.
The most salient finding isthat they followed the lives of
2,000-ish people 1,300 originalparticipants and then 700
descendants over the course of85 years.
They found that the singlegreatest predictor of physical
(15:26):
health at age 80 wasrelationship satisfaction at age
50.
It wasn't your blood pressureor your cholesterol, or your
smoking or drinking habits.
It was how you felt about yourrelationships that determined
how well you aged.
And that idea is so importantbecause what it reminds you of
is that investments in yourrelationships are really the
single greatest and mostimportant investment that you
(15:49):
need to have in your life.
You need to remind yourself ona daily basis that investments
in relationships compound justas well as any financial
investment.
What happens to a lot of uswhen we're young is we realize
that we need to build thisfinancial foundation, we need to
set ourselves up, which is trueand that is accurate.
But the thing we split offduring that period of all we're
(16:10):
going to begin with, we stoptexting those old friends, we
stop getting the group ofcollege friends together for the
annual trip, we don't take thefive minutes to call our parents
when we're on the ride to work.
All of those things start toget sacrificed as we're focusing
on the one thing.
And yet those things, thoserelationships, scientifically
(16:31):
are the one thing that's goingto have the greatest impact on
how well that we age and on thetexture of our life.
I mean, you think about the onetype of wealth here that has
more of an impact on all theothers Social wealth, is it?
No one dreams about being on aprivate jet by themselves.
You know, like what good is itto be healthy if you can't go
for a walk with a friend or goon a hike with someone that you
love?
Like?
All of these things are added,like have added texture when you
(16:54):
have people to actually enjoythem with.
And so, winding myself back toyour actual question, I think
the fundamental answer to it isyou need to recognize that
anything above zero compoundspositively.
Anything above zero compounds.
The tiny thing, the tiny littlething that you can do in your
relationships is better thandoing nothing.
(17:15):
Ambitious people, we allowoptimal to get in the way of
beneficial.
So we tell ourselves if I don'thave an hour to work out, I'm
just not going to work out today.
Or if I don't have an hour tospend time with this person, I'm
just not going to do anything.
But the reality is that thelittle thing still stacks up
positively over the long run.
So, on a daily basis, find someway to invest in your
(17:35):
relationships.
That could be as simple assending a text to a friend when
you're thinking about them.
If you think something niceabout someone, let them know.
Right then Send the text, sendthe message.
Do the two-minute phone callwhen you're on your walk to work
.
Do that little thing and it'llstack up positively in your life
.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Discipline is a key component of this podcast and a
key thing that we preach.
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
(18:14):
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level upin 2025, I am happy to be a part
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakable Discipline
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
(18:38):
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
and in alignment with ourmembers, and weekly mastermind
sessions where you're going tolearn from either myself or a
suite of renowned guests manywho have been on the podcast
(18:58):
that are going to share piecesof their winning playbooks
directly with you.
I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, goalone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
(19:21):
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
.
We are growing up to 100members this year and have
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
we permanently increase pricingto $97 a month.
(19:41):
You can get in now for $67 amonth, locked in for life, and
be a part of the adventure thatwe're creating with our members.
If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
changes in your life and beingaround others that are committed
(20:04):
to winning and serving theworld and sharing what they
learn with others so that wemake this world a better place,
then join the unshakable crew.
Go to unshakable disciplinecomand you can sign up.
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
(20:24):
milkshake,unshakabledisciplinecom, and
we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
When I first discovered you,sahil, your tagline was
exploring your curiosity andsharing what you learn along the
way and as we go into mentalwealth.
(20:46):
The opening story was agentleman that knew your father
that for his 89th or 90thbirthday, all he wanted to do
was go to classes at Harvard tosee what the geniuses were up to
, and he went there and had anamazing day with his wife and
(21:07):
with that, how does curiositystill play an active role in
your life and what's theimportance of maintaining that,
even after we've quote may havethought we made it.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, curiosity is part of your default setting as
a human being.
I mean anyone that has kids,that's on this call.
I have a two and a half yearold.
Curiosity is hardwired into ourDNA.
It's how we learn about theworld, it's how we engage with
the world.
Unfortunately, that curiosityfades with time.
In a traditional context youfind that over time either you
(21:41):
become less curious or, I wouldargue, we just stop acting on
that curiosity.
We're not less curious, we justdon't have the space in our
life to actually pursue thosecuriosities.
So if you think about a littlekid, you watch a little kid the
way that they operate.
When they get curious aboutsomething, they immediately go
down the rabbit hole on thatthing because they don't have
any responsibilities, right.
(22:02):
Like if my son gets reallyinterested in some shape or
dinosaur or something like that,he can just literally just go
be excited about the dinosaurfor the next hour and that can
be his thing for an hour.
We don't as adults have thatluxury, necessarily, but our
responsibility is to make surethat we have little pockets of
space in our life, littlebreathing rooms, you know.
Ventilate our calendar a littlebit so that we are able to
(22:25):
pursue our curiosity at somepoint during the course of our
week.
It could be as simple as a fiveminute walk on a daily basis.
It could be that you take anhour for yourself on the weekend
, just something where you'rebreathing a little space into
your calendar so that you can godown a few of those rabbit
holes of things that you'reexcited about.
The reason that's so importantis because curiosity is
fundamentally what allows you tounlock these different things
(22:48):
in your life.
It's how you actually uncoveryour purpose as you are changing
across these different seasons.
It's how you spark new growthin your life and, fundamentally,
curiosity actually helps youspark new growth in your life.
And, fundamentally, curiosityactually helps you age better
and live for longer.
There's plenty of studies nowthat show that curiosity
actually improves all-causemortality.
It's crazy, but it's reallyimportant.
So leaning into these thingsand making sure that you create
(23:11):
the space in your life toactually pursue your curiosity
as you get older is very, veryimportant.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Is there anything that you're currently deeply
curious about, now that you'respending some time picking at
more than you thought you would?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I am deeply, deeply curious about the mechanics of
what makes a book take hold as amovement.
I mean, hopefully it comesacross just as I talk about
these things.
But like this is very much alife mission for me, like I
really deeply want people tostart to question what they
(23:48):
truly want in life and stopaccepting the defaults that
they've been handed, stopaccepting the mountain that
you've been told you should wantto climb and start asking
yourself the question of what isthe mountain that I actually
want to climb?
What is my definition ofsuccess?
Not the one that I've beenhanded by the world, and if it's
the same, great.
But at least have asked thequestion, because I found this
(24:08):
over and over again that wespend so much time focusing on
speed how fast can I climb upthis mountain?
How fast can I charge to thetop of this thing, whatever it
is?
And we very rarely take thesecond to just ask whether you
actually want to be at the topof this mountain that you're
climbing or whether you evenenjoy climbing up it in the
first place.
And taking the time to ask thatquestion is really what the
(24:31):
fundamental concept of thiswhole book is it's about
identifying the things that youtruly care about and then going
and taking tiny actions to buildyour life around those things.
And I am deeply, deeplycommitted to making this a
movement and something thatsparks new people to action in
their own lives, because I'veseen the value that it's created
(24:51):
in my life, these ideas and Ifundamentally believe that the
most scalable outcomes arecreated through unscalable
actions and going and actuallymeeting people and spending time
with people and interacting, sothat you can understand how
much I care about this stuff.
But it's not like I'm not someinfluencer that published a book
to try to make a bunch of moneyLike I don't have a course to
(25:11):
sell you, like I, it's $20 book.
I think.
I think it's going to be worthway more than that in terms of
the value that it creates ineveryone's life.
Uh, and if you told me that itdidn't create any value for your
life, I'd Venmo you 20 bucks,um, cause I really, really
believe in the value that it cancreate in the world and um, I,
I want to do the unscalablethings.
That that's what gives meenergy, if I insights there.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And, yeah, one thing when I was thinking about, my
original lead-off question wasgoing to be were there any
outcomes for the book that maybeyou wouldn't have predicted and
but that now you know, you're,you're awake to, and it's
(25:53):
interesting how you're curiousabout you know, know, just, hey,
what's?
What movement can this create?
And really, what all is thereto follow up?
Uh, what, what all is there tofollow this book, and I'm really
excited to see that uh unfoldand can only imagine the massive
(26:14):
impact that it's going to havefor decades to come.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
There's a I hope so.
I mean it's the concept itself,it's not.
It's not timely, it's just it'stimeless.
The ideas and, um, you know, Ilike it's been out in the world
for three ish weeks now, threeweeks today maybe, and getting
messages from people that, likeyou know, they booked a vacation
with their family that theyweren't going to have booked, or
(26:38):
they called their parents a fewmore times, or they are moving
home or, like you know, theysent me a picture of their kid
being born and how much it justimpacted that, like I am so
deeply moved by the things thatI've seen in three weeks I can't
imagine three years and like,just thinking about the ripple
effect of these things, um, fromyou know, sharing an idea into
(26:58):
the world and seeing howeverybody goes and runs with it,
like it just I, it fills mewith joy to just think about, um
, like that I get to have been atiny part of this in people's
lives.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's fascinating.
We've got a question from Lukein Minnesota.
What's one day in the past yearthat was memorable and why?
I'm sure the book launch ispart is one of them.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But yeah, I mean it was interesting, the book launch
.
Um, you would think that theday the book came out would have
been like a really joyous and,uh, incredible day, feeling like
this great accomplishment, andthe reality, if I'm being
totally honest, would it was.
It was one of the mostmiserable days I've had in the
last several years.
I felt an extraordinary amountof anxiety, fear, stress,
(27:47):
imposter syndrome, all of thosereally negative things on the
day of the launch and workingthrough that and trying to
deconstruct it and reallyunderstand why I was feeling
that way, um made it a verymemorable day.
I wouldn't say it was aparticularly happy day, um, but
a very impactful day for my lifelong-term, because it was a
(28:09):
reminder to me that thosefeelings never go away.
Uh, imposter syndrome is a taxon your personal transformation
and growth, by definition.
When you were doing things thatare on the border of your
current competencies, you weregoing to feel that and reminding
yourself that imposter syndromeis really a cost of entry to
(28:29):
achieve the things that you want, that you asked for this growth
and so you have to pay the costof entry with pride.
That was a really powerful andtransformative realization for
me, um, that I feel fortunatethat I sort of endured and went
through, uh, but a very weirdsensation, kind of coming to the
culmination of these threeyears of work and feeling that
way that I felt.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and one thing that's really neat there is that
many of us there's probably alot of people that look at you
and think, oh, he doesn't everface imposter syndrome, he's got
a large audience, he's got thebook, he's clearly got it
figured out.
One thing that I often talkabout on the podcast, having had
conversations with a lot ofpeople like you, this is a live
(29:11):
example that, even when any ofus are thinking about, oh man, I
don't know if I'm qualified toput this out in the world the
people that we look up to themost which we really look up to
you I certainly do are askingthe same questions and having
the same thoughts 100%, andyou're probably not qualified
(29:33):
and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
It literally doesn't matter.
No one's qualified until theyget it.
The fact that a lot of peoplehave benefited from my writing
about X makes me credible.
To write about X, it's like youno longer live in a world where
you need to get a PhD, whateverit is, in order to talk about
it.
If you talk about it, peoplefind value in it.
It impacts their life.
Then you become qualified.
You build your own credibility.
(29:54):
You are your own credentialingand that is amazing.
And the point is you're notqualified and that's great.
Actually, don't do the thingthat you're not qualified to do,
because then on the back end ofit, now you're qualified.
Now people think I'm anoffender, right, like I went
through it a bit.
You're like man, I'm notsupposed to do things.
(30:16):
Right, you can.
If that's not an invitation forpeople to go and do the
fricking thing that you want todo, no-transcript.
You need to recognize that anything above zero
compounds positively.
Anything above zero compoundsthe tiny thing.
The tiny little thing that youcan do in your relationships is
better than doing nothing.
Ambitious people we allowoptimal to get in the way of
beneficial.
So we tell ourselves if I don'thave an hour to work out, I'm
just not going to work out today.
Or if I don't have an hour tospend time with this person, I'm
(00:22):
just not going to do anything.
But the reality is that thelittle thing still stacks up
positively over the long run.
So, on a daily basis, find someway to invest in your
relationships.
That could be as simple assending a text to a friend when
you're thinking about them.
If you think something niceabout someone, let them know.
Right then Send the text, sendthe message.
Do the two-minute phone callwhen you're on your walk to work
(00:43):
.
Do that little thing and it'llstack up positively in your life
.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to the Wednesday Podcast, a weekly
resource thoughtfully crafted tohelp people build and refine
discipline, accomplish theirgoals, fortify their mindsets
and be of service to somebody inthis world.
My name is Ryan Cass and I amyour host, and it is my mission
and commitment to deliveramazing episodes to you every
week where you'll learn frommyself or a renowned expert in
(01:13):
their field.
We love helping people win inevery aspect of their lives, and
you can help us win by sharingthe show with somebody that you
believe will benefit from it,subscribing and leaving a rating
and review.
We believe that everybody inthis world is meant to do
something great with their lives, and we're here to help play a
(01:33):
role in that.
Thank you for tuning in andlet's win today.
Have you ever thought aboutthere being more than one type
of wealth in this world?
Growing up, many of us mayassociate wealth with monetary
means, our financial wealth, ouraccess to capital, our ability
(01:57):
to earn money, wealth being asingular thing that is tied to
money.
But what if wealth was anoverarching concept that touched
the most important elements ofour lives?
What if we treated time as thesame type of commodity as we do?
(02:19):
Money Meaning that, what if youcould be wealthy in terms of
your time, as if it was afinancial asset?
What if you could be wealthy asit relates to your mental
health and how strong you areand how resilient you are and
(02:40):
how fortified your mind is?
What if wealth could also beassociated with your physical
state?
The five types of wealth justcame out from Sal Hillblum, who
is one of the most popularauthors in the world right now,
continues to remain in the top10 charts of the New York Times
(03:02):
bestselling list, and we had theopportunity to have him with us
as part of the Unshakable Crewbook club launch, and he was our
first guest speaker.
An incredible, incredible,incredible, incredible
opportunity.
Many of you know who Sahil is.
(03:24):
You probably have read his bookor have it, or, if not, I
highly encourage you to get hisbook, the Five Types of Wealth,
which I'm sharing in thisinterview.
Snippets of our conversationwith Sahil, where I interviewed
him live in front of ouraudience and asked questions
(03:45):
about some of the concepts andmost powerful frameworks that
can be extracted from this book.
What I really extracted fromthis conversation that I believe
is most useful for you all arethe concepts of time wealth,
(04:05):
mental wealth, and then, at thevery end, something that you may
find surprising about Sahil andreally how he revealed that he
is just as human and normal asall of us, and you'll find that
out when he talks about the booklaunch.
You may think it was going tobe the best day of his life, but
(04:29):
stay to the end and hear hisanswer there and then hear what
was running through his mind, asnow one of the top selling
authors in the world maysurprise you and encourage you
to keep going on your pursuit,to maybe even go even harder on
(04:52):
your pursuit, because what youhear him say again it will be
surprising, but I believe,surprisingly encouraging that we
all feel our own emotions.
It doesn't matter if we're atthe top of our game, just
getting started best in theworld, not the best in the world
amateur expert you keep going.
(05:15):
But I really want to come backto the concept of time wealth
that especially the majority ofus listening are in our
mid-career, have an abundance oftime on our hands, provided the
big man allows us to stay herefor at least 80 years, which is,
I believe, the average lifespan.
(05:35):
Now we have an abundance oftime and let's start treating
that time, just as we would, aprecious commodity, even like
money.
So enjoy this conversation.
Be mindful of the time that wedo have in this world and the
(06:00):
essence of what it means to be atime billionaire, which you're
about to find out here in abouttwo minutes.
Be mindful of the five types ofwealth as it relates to your
time, your social wealth, yourmental wealth, physical wealth,
financial wealth, and how youcan nurture each of them so that
(06:23):
you can create the life thatyou ultimately desire, and
create your dream life, as Sahilbeautifully lays out for us.
The next thing as encouragementhere, because a lot of folks
have been asking this questionhow did you get one of the top
selling authors in the world tocome and speak to your group?
(06:45):
Because the reality is at thiscurrent moment.
You know, sahil has been on thebiggest podcasts in the world
I'm not there yet and,relatively speaking, when today
is still a relatively small show.
Same thing with the UnshakableCrew and the Unshakable
Discipline Mastermind, which iswho he came to speak to.
It is still small, but he putout there into the world.
(07:08):
If anybody has a book club of 10or more people, then let me
know and I would love to comeand speak to you guys in person
or I'll do some virtuals.
I didn't even think twice aboutit Didn't even have a book club
yet but I knew that, a this isa hell of an opportunity and, b
I know I can get 10 plus peopleinto a book club meeting and
(07:30):
include this as part of mymastermind meeting cadence.
Therefore, didn't even take twoseconds to think about it and
reached out to Sahil and he gotback almost instantly.
So stop asking the how?
Questions in life people, andjust start taking action on
whatever it is that you want,whatever it is that is most
(07:53):
important to you.
Now enjoy this conversation withSahil and get your copy of the
five types of wealth.
Let's go.
We have 30 minutes together,and one thing that rings true
throughout multiple sections ofthe book is time and its
(08:17):
importance, and many of us areearly career, mid-career folks
that may believe we have anabundance of time on our hands.
How has your relationship withtime shifted?
And really, what was it thatled to this discovery that, hey,
maybe time isn't so abundantand we should really be more
(08:40):
mindful of what we have on ourhands right now?
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Yeah, I mean the real transformative moment on my
journey I share in the firstline of the book, which was this
conversation with this oldfriend of mine pointing out,
really, just the mortality of myparents, and that you know the
amount of time that you haveleft with the people that you
care about most in the world.
The amount of moments that youhave for all of these things is
(09:06):
much more finite and limitedthan we care to believe, and
when we're young in particular,time is sort of one of those
things when you think about it,that you think about just about
none for your entire life, andthen at the very end, it's the
only thing you think about, butthen it's too late, you can't do
anything about it at that point, and so that awareness, like
pulling that awareness forwardinto your present reality and
(09:28):
recognizing that you canactually take actions to
influence and create time in acertain way, is such a powerful
realization for everyone's life.
And what I mean by that is likewe made a decision, we took an
action, we decided to move, Ileft my job, we made this big
change and in that one decisionwe took the number 15 more times
(09:50):
before my parents were gone,and jumped it into the hundreds.
I mean, I see my parentsmultiple times a month.
They're a huge part of my son,their grandson's life.
We took an action and actuallycreated time with the people
that we care about most in theworld, and in that there's this
really empowering idea, which isthat you are in much more
control of your time than youthink.
(10:10):
It's very easy to assume thattime is just this passive thing
that just flows and you can't doanything about it.
That is like the ancient Greekword chronos.
It's like chronological, justquantitative, linear time, and
what you're saying is that Iactually have the power to
influence these certain moments,to lean into certain moments,
to take advantage of thesemagical windows of time when
(10:33):
certain people occupy our livesin a very differentiated way,
and that awareness is really thespark for everything dynamic
characteristic this idea ofKairos in ancient Greece.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
You start operating differently, you start living
differently, you start payingattention to things that you
previously had just glazed overOne thing that really hit hard
as I was reading the book abouttime.
In addition to what youmentioned that having 15 visits
left with your parentspotentially having 15 visits
left with your parentspotentially if you stayed on the
(11:10):
West Coast is this concept of atime billionaire, and I believe
that's something that's reallymemorable.
And you talk about how youwouldn't want to trade lives and
many of us wouldn't want totrade lives with Warren.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Buffett.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Now, without knowing the concept of a time
billionaire, some people mightthink well, why wouldn't you
want to trade lives?
He's a billionaire and has allthese things.
So can you expand on that alittle bit more and put the time
billionaire concept in ourthoughts?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, the concept of a time billionaire I first heard
from an investor named GrahamDuncan, and when I spoke with
him, he basically said thegenesis of it in his life was
that he was interviewing allthese young people to join his
investment firm, and what herecognized was that all of them
shared one thing in common,which was that they wanted to
become billionaires.
They all wanted to make abillion dollars, and what he
(12:01):
said was that I realized thatthey were all billionaires in
one very important way, whichwas they were time billionaires.
A billion seconds is about 30years, so when you're 20 years
old, you have roughly 2 billionseconds left in your life.
When you're 50, you have abouta billion seconds left.
But we don't relate to time inthat way.
We don't think about the factthat time is actually our most
precious asset, that it's theonly thing that you can't get
(12:23):
more of, that you can't get back, and so that question that I
bring up in the book of wouldyou trade lives with Warren
Buffett is a really importantway to actually internalize this
idea.
Which is to say, warren Buffettis worth $130 billion, he has
access to absolutely anyone inthe world, he flies around on a
Boeing business jet.
There's no way that you wouldever agree to trade the amount
(12:46):
of time he has left for all themoney in the world.
And on the flip side, he wouldgive anything to be in your
shoes, to be your age.
He'd give up every singledollar that he has to do that.
And so what you recognize inthat question is your time has,
quite literally, incalculablevalue.
I mean incalculable value.
And yet, on a daily basis, howmuch are you really appreciating
(13:07):
that asset?
How much are you sitting aroundscrolling on your phone,
comparing yourself to otherpeople, stressing about things
in the future, anxiety overthings in the past, spending
time saying yes to low valueactivities, things that are not
bringing you energy in your life, doing all of these things that
are wasting the one mostprecious thing that we really
(13:27):
have in our lives?
And so internalizing thatconcept, thinking about that,
recognizing that we all need totune in much more to our time
and really start treating itwith that elevated reverence, if
you will, is a really, reallyimportant concept and central to
this entire idea.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Really appreciate that.
One thing I love about the bookSahil is that there's so many
amazing studies and frameworksand jumping into social wealth.
You share a study between twogroups of folks in Boston,
groups of young males that comefrom more fortunate upbringings
(14:09):
and then those that come fromless fortunate upbringings, and
they're looking at therelationship between that and
the relationships that they havelater in life.
On page 137, this study led tothe key to aging.
The key to healthy aging isrelationships, relationships,
relationships.
The study has found that strong, healthy relationships are the
(14:33):
best predict in your life todaythat have influenced you and
(14:53):
helped you get where you are.
What are some things that tipsyou have in terms of captivating
, deep, meaningful relationshipsthat we can take away?
Speaker 1 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean the study you reference.
It's called the Harvard studyof adult development.
I would personally argue that Ithink it's the most important
study of the last 100 years.
The most salient finding isthat they followed the lives of
2,000-ish people 1,300 originalparticipants and then 700
descendants over the course of85 years.
They found that the singlegreatest predictor of physical
(15:26):
health at age 80 wasrelationship satisfaction at age
50.
It wasn't your blood pressureor your cholesterol, or your
smoking or drinking habits.
It was how you felt about yourrelationships that determined
how well you aged.
And that idea is so importantbecause what it reminds you of
is that investments in yourrelationships are really the
single greatest and mostimportant investment that you
(15:49):
need to have in your life.
You need to remind yourself ona daily basis that investments
in relationships compound justas well as any financial
investment.
What happens to a lot of uswhen we're young is we realize
that we need to build thisfinancial foundation, we need to
set ourselves up, which is trueand that is accurate.
But the thing we split offduring that period of all we're
(16:10):
going to begin with, we stoptexting those old friends, we
stop getting the group ofcollege friends together for the
annual trip, we don't take thefive minutes to call our parents
when we're on the ride to work.
All of those things start toget sacrificed as we're focusing
on the one thing.
And yet those things, thoserelationships, scientifically
(16:31):
are the one thing that's goingto have the greatest impact on
how well that we age and on thetexture of our life.
I mean, you think about the onetype of wealth here that has
more of an impact on all theothers Social wealth, is it?
No one dreams about being on aprivate jet by themselves.
You know, like what good is itto be healthy if you can't go
for a walk with a friend or goon a hike with someone that you
love?
Like?
All of these things are added,like have added texture when you
(16:54):
have people to actually enjoythem with.
And so, winding myself back toyour actual question, I think
the fundamental answer to it isyou need to recognize that
anything above zero compoundspositively.
Anything above zero compounds.
The tiny thing, the tiny littlething that you can do in your
relationships is better thandoing nothing.
(17:15):
Ambitious people, we allowoptimal to get in the way of
beneficial.
So we tell ourselves if I don'thave an hour to work out, I'm
just not going to work out today.
Or if I don't have an hour tospend time with this person, I'm
just not going to do anything.
But the reality is that thelittle thing still stacks up
positively over the long run.
So, on a daily basis, find someway to invest in your
(17:35):
relationships.
That could be as simple assending a text to a friend when
you're thinking about them.
If you think something niceabout someone, let them know.
Right then Send the text, sendthe message.
Do the two-minute phone callwhen you're on your walk to work
.
Do that little thing and it'llstack up positively in your life
.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Discipline is a key component of this podcast and a
key thing that we preach.
We view discipline as the fuelto help you create the life that
you ultimately desire, anddiscipline being the fuel that
gets your habits and systems incheck so that you can actually
(18:14):
accomplish your goals.
If you're looking to level upin 2025, I am happy to be a part
of that and encourage you tojoin the Unshakable Discipline
Mastermind Group.
This has been my baby for acouple years and we're finally
launching it here in 2025.
The group consists of aself-paced course that teaches
(18:38):
you how to form core habits andmindset that will allow you to
accomplish your goals.
A daily accountability channelto keep you on track, motivated
and in alignment with ourmembers, and weekly mastermind
sessions where you're going tolearn from either myself or a
suite of renowned guests manywho have been on the podcast
(18:58):
that are going to share piecesof their winning playbooks
directly with you.
I've learned that being a partof groups over the years has
helped propel me to so many newlevels in life.
If you want to go fast, goalone.
If you want to go far, then gotogether, and it's my wish that
(19:21):
the Unshakable Crew is a choicethat makes sense for you in 2025
.
We are growing up to 100members this year and have
limited time founding memberpricing for 12 more folks before
we permanently increase pricingto $97 a month.
(19:41):
You can get in now for $67 amonth, locked in for life, and
be a part of the adventure thatwe're creating with our members.
If you're somebody that cravesdiscipline, seeks it or wants it
this year, and you're reallycommitted to making lasting
changes in your life and beingaround others that are committed
(20:04):
to winning and serving theworld and sharing what they
learn with others so that wemake this world a better place,
then join the unshakable crew.
Go to unshakable disciplinecomand you can sign up.
It is also in the show notesUnshakeable shake, as in
(20:24):
milkshake,unshakabledisciplinecom, and
we're excited to have you in2025.
Let's go.
When I first discovered you,sahil, your tagline was
exploring your curiosity andsharing what you learn along the
way and as we go into mentalwealth.
(20:46):
The opening story was agentleman that knew your father
that for his 89th or 90thbirthday, all he wanted to do
was go to classes at Harvard tosee what the geniuses were up to
, and he went there and had anamazing day with his wife and
(21:07):
with that, how does curiositystill play an active role in
your life and what's theimportance of maintaining that,
even after we've quote may havethought we made it.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Yeah, curiosity is part of your default setting as
a human being.
I mean anyone that has kids,that's on this call.
I have a two and a half yearold.
Curiosity is hardwired into ourDNA.
It's how we learn about theworld, it's how we engage with
the world.
Unfortunately, that curiosityfades with time.
In a traditional context youfind that over time either you
(21:41):
become less curious or, I wouldargue, we just stop acting on
that curiosity.
We're not less curious, we justdon't have the space in our
life to actually pursue thosecuriosities.
So if you think about a littlekid, you watch a little kid the
way that they operate.
When they get curious aboutsomething, they immediately go
down the rabbit hole on thatthing because they don't have
any responsibilities, right.
(22:02):
Like if my son gets reallyinterested in some shape or
dinosaur or something like that,he can just literally just go
be excited about the dinosaurfor the next hour and that can
be his thing for an hour.
We don't as adults have thatluxury, necessarily, but our
responsibility is to make surethat we have little pockets of
space in our life, littlebreathing rooms, you know.
Ventilate our calendar a littlebit so that we are able to
(22:25):
pursue our curiosity at somepoint during the course of our
week.
It could be as simple as a fiveminute walk on a daily basis.
It could be that you take anhour for yourself on the weekend
, just something where you'rebreathing a little space into
your calendar so that you can godown a few of those rabbit
holes of things that you'reexcited about.
The reason that's so importantis because curiosity is
fundamentally what allows you tounlock these different things
(22:48):
in your life.
It's how you actually uncoveryour purpose as you are changing
across these different seasons.
It's how you spark new growthin your life and, fundamentally,
curiosity actually helps youspark new growth in your life.
And, fundamentally, curiosityactually helps you age better
and live for longer.
There's plenty of studies nowthat show that curiosity
actually improves all-causemortality.
It's crazy, but it's reallyimportant.
So leaning into these thingsand making sure that you create
(23:11):
the space in your life toactually pursue your curiosity
as you get older is very, veryimportant.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Is there anything that you're currently deeply
curious about, now that you'respending some time picking at
more than you thought you would?
Speaker 1 (23:26):
I am deeply, deeply curious about the mechanics of
what makes a book take hold as amovement.
I mean, hopefully it comesacross just as I talk about
these things.
But like this is very much alife mission for me, like I
really deeply want people tostart to question what they
(23:48):
truly want in life and stopaccepting the defaults that
they've been handed, stopaccepting the mountain that
you've been told you should wantto climb and start asking
yourself the question of what isthe mountain that I actually
want to climb?
What is my definition ofsuccess?
Not the one that I've beenhanded by the world, and if it's
the same, great.
But at least have asked thequestion, because I found this
(24:08):
over and over again that wespend so much time focusing on
speed how fast can I climb upthis mountain?
How fast can I charge to thetop of this thing, whatever it
is?
And we very rarely take thesecond to just ask whether you
actually want to be at the topof this mountain that you're
climbing or whether you evenenjoy climbing up it in the
first place.
And taking the time to ask thatquestion is really what the
(24:31):
fundamental concept of thiswhole book is it's about
identifying the things that youtruly care about and then going
and taking tiny actions to buildyour life around those things.
And I am deeply, deeplycommitted to making this a
movement and something thatsparks new people to action in
their own lives, because I'veseen the value that it's created
(24:51):
in my life, these ideas and Ifundamentally believe that the
most scalable outcomes arecreated through unscalable
actions and going and actuallymeeting people and spending time
with people and interacting, sothat you can understand how
much I care about this stuff.
But it's not like I'm not someinfluencer that published a book
to try to make a bunch of moneyLike I don't have a course to
(25:11):
sell you, like I, it's $20 book.
I think.
I think it's going to be worthway more than that in terms of
the value that it creates ineveryone's life.
Uh, and if you told me that itdidn't create any value for your
life, I'd Venmo you 20 bucks,um, cause I really, really
believe in the value that it cancreate in the world and um, I,
I want to do the unscalablethings.
That that's what gives meenergy, if I insights there.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
And, yeah, one thing when I was thinking about, my
original lead-off question wasgoing to be were there any
outcomes for the book that maybeyou wouldn't have predicted and
but that now you know, you're,you're awake to, and it's
(25:53):
interesting how you're curiousabout you know, know, just, hey,
what's?
What movement can this create?
And really, what all is thereto follow up?
Uh, what, what all is there tofollow this book, and I'm really
excited to see that uh unfoldand can only imagine the massive
(26:14):
impact that it's going to havefor decades to come.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
There's a I hope so.
I mean it's the concept itself,it's not.
It's not timely, it's just it'stimeless.
The ideas and, um, you know, Ilike it's been out in the world
for three ish weeks now, threeweeks today maybe, and getting
messages from people that, likeyou know, they booked a vacation
with their family that theyweren't going to have booked, or
(26:38):
they called their parents a fewmore times, or they are moving
home or, like you know, theysent me a picture of their kid
being born and how much it justimpacted that, like I am so
deeply moved by the things thatI've seen in three weeks I can't
imagine three years and like,just thinking about the ripple
effect of these things, um, fromyou know, sharing an idea into
(26:58):
the world and seeing howeverybody goes and runs with it,
like it just I, it fills mewith joy to just think about, um
, like that I get to have been atiny part of this in people's
lives.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
That's fascinating.
We've got a question from Lukein Minnesota.
What's one day in the past yearthat was memorable and why?
I'm sure the book launch ispart is one of them.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
But yeah, I mean it was interesting, the book launch
.
Um, you would think that theday the book came out would have
been like a really joyous and,uh, incredible day, feeling like
this great accomplishment, andthe reality, if I'm being
totally honest, would it was.
It was one of the mostmiserable days I've had in the
last several years.
I felt an extraordinary amountof anxiety, fear, stress,
(27:47):
imposter syndrome, all of thosereally negative things on the
day of the launch and workingthrough that and trying to
deconstruct it and reallyunderstand why I was feeling
that way, um made it a verymemorable day.
I wouldn't say it was aparticularly happy day, um, but
a very impactful day for my lifelong-term, because it was a
(28:09):
reminder to me that thosefeelings never go away.
Uh, imposter syndrome is a taxon your personal transformation
and growth, by definition.
When you were doing things thatare on the border of your
current competencies, you weregoing to feel that and reminding
yourself that imposter syndromeis really a cost of entry to
(28:29):
achieve the things that you want, that you asked for this growth
and so you have to pay the costof entry with pride.
That was a really powerful andtransformative realization for
me, um, that I feel fortunatethat I sort of endured and went
through, uh, but a very weirdsensation, kind of coming to the
culmination of these threeyears of work and feeling that
way that I felt.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, and one thing that's really neat there is that
many of us there's probably alot of people that look at you
and think, oh, he doesn't everface imposter syndrome, he's got
a large audience, he's got thebook, he's clearly got it
figured out.
One thing that I often talkabout on the podcast, having had
conversations with a lot ofpeople like you, this is a live
(29:11):
example that, even when any ofus are thinking about, oh man, I
don't know if I'm qualified toput this out in the world the
people that we look up to themost which we really look up to
you I certainly do are askingthe same questions and having
the same thoughts 100%, andyou're probably not qualified
(29:33):
and it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
It literally doesn't matter.
No one's qualified until theyget it.
The fact that a lot of peoplehave benefited from my writing
about X makes me credible.
To write about X, it's like youno longer live in a world where
you need to get a PhD, whateverit is, in order to talk about
it.
If you talk about it, peoplefind value in it.
It impacts their life.
Then you become qualified.
You build your own credibility.
(29:54):
You are your own credentialingand that is amazing.
And the point is you're notqualified and that's great.
Actually, don't do the thingthat you're not qualified to do,
because then on the back end ofit, now you're qualified.
Now people think I'm anoffender, right, like I went
through it a bit.
You're like man, I'm notsupposed to do things.
(30:16):
Right, you can.
If that's not an invitation forpeople to go and do the
fricking thing that you want todo, no-transcript.
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