March 17, 2025 • 46 mins
Are we missing the key to true wellness? In this must-listen episode, we sit down with Jenny Powers, evolutionary wellness expert and author of The Origin of Being, to explore how reconnecting with nature and understanding our primal roots can transform our mental and physical health. From the science of ancestral healing to the power of social connections, Jenny reveals the secrets to thriving in the modern world.
As a researcher and advocate for evolution-based well-being, Jenny’s work uncovers how small lifestyle shifts—rooted in nature and ancient wisdom—can lead to less stress, more energy, and greater happiness.
What You’ll Learn:
Why nature is the ultimate healer for stress, anxiety, and burnout
The surprising link between evolution and happiness
How small changes can create massive improvements in your well-being
The truth about social media’s impact on real-life relationships
Why community support is essential for long-term success
Plus, we dive into key insights from her book, The Origin of Being, where she breaks down the science of healing through nature, mindfulness, and primal living.
Listen on Apple Podcasts & Watch on YouTube – Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and share!
Buy Jenny's Book anywhere books are sold, click here.
Learn more about Jenny Powers on IG, Facebook, LinkedIn, Website
#wellness #naturelovers #forestbathing #evolution #mentalhealth #podcast #nature
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
Are you ready to reclaim your wellness?
Learn how understandingevolution and aligning with our
primal needs can help you andyour work bestie.
Recharge, realign and thrivethroughout your day.
So tune in today and listen toJenny Powers share how nature
holds the key to healing and ouroptimal health.
Claude (00:20):
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:29):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties Hello everybody.
Welcome to Work Besties whoPodcast.
Hi everyone.
Hello everybody.
Welcome to Work Besties whoPodcast.
Hi everyone.
Welcome, jenny.
We're so excited to have JennyPowers with us.
(00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jenny Powers (00:51):
I'm excited to be here.
Jess (00:59):
Of course I'll give a little bit about you.
You are a scientist and authorand a former intercollegiate
athlete as well, and you've gota great mix of expertise in
engineering, immunology and apassion for writing.
I know I read your book on theorigin of being.
It's amazing and I am soexcited to have you on to
explore some of the topics thatyou have in there and talk about
(01:21):
how it kind of relates to someof the things that we in our
Workvesty community talk about.
Jenny Powers (01:27):
Yeah, well, like I was saying, I've listened to
some of your podcasts and I'mlike nodding along and thinking
I think there's a lot of stuff Ican say that kind of like
totally jives with what you guysare doing.
Jess (01:39):
Yeah.
Claude (01:40):
Yeah, I know.
Jess (01:41):
We've listened to some of your podcasts with other guests,
and it's interesting.
You talk a lot about nutritionand sleep and a lot of the
amazing wellness things that Iknow our work besties would love
, but then there's also some ofthose other things about the
relationships and the personalbeing with somebody and
connection that I think we'rereally interested to dive into
(02:02):
and talk with you about.
Before we do that, though, doyou want to give a little bit of
a background on yourself?
Jenny Powers (02:08):
Well, like you said, I've kind of done a lot of
things all around.
My dad was in the Air Force.
We moved all around.
I went to high school in DC,came out to Colorado to study
engineering and play basketballand then I was like, oh well,
you know, maybe I don't want todo engineering, maybe I'll do
biological sciences.
So I got into the PhD programat the University of Colorado
(02:30):
studying immunology and then Iwas kind of in my mid 20s and
I'd had a lot of success.
But I think, as probably a lotof your listeners and maybe even
you guys have, I got so caughtup in my achievements, being
like my worth was completelytied up in what I achieved and
it wasn't necessarily doing thework that I loved and doing my
(02:54):
passion, and so I was not veryhappy, kind of doing the whole
postdoc thing.
Learning about the human bodyis amazing and, and you know,
has served me, but it wasn'treally what I wanted to do.
So when I left academia Ididn't really know what I was
going to do, except really deepdown inside I knew I wanted to
be a writer.
But for some reason you haveall these external expectations
(03:15):
put on you and you have allthese internal expectations and
for some reason, like being awriter, wasn't even on that list
.
So when I, when I stoppedacademia, I actually started
writing middle grade fiction,which is eight to 12 year olds,
and I started writing adultshort stories and I started
doing a little bit of nonfiction, maybe for children.
But it wasn't until thisopportunity to research and
write this book with my coauthor, luke Comer, came along
(03:38):
that I really was able to likebring my scientific background
and writing together and be ableto actually use a lot of what I
trained for for so many yearswas really a very fortuitous
meeting, and so the process ofwriting the book and then the
process of getting it out thereand now being on podcasts and
meeting amazing people all overthe world, it's just really
(04:01):
changed my life.
So it's been really changed mylife.
So it's it's been very a veryinteresting ride.
Claude (04:06):
You can see, at the end of the day you have like your
both passions, that you wereable to fuse together.
You know, and that's fantastic,it's not given to a lot of
people to finally find, you know, their the passion, the
combination of the passions soyou mentioned your co-writer,
Luke, who helped you with thewriting of it.
Jess (04:26):
What was that like when you met with him?
Was it like an instant bond?
How did that all come about?
Jenny Powers (04:31):
with our genetics and our biological cells through
nutrition and all of hisresearch into that.
He's noticed all these otherthings, other ways that we're
not living in accord with ourevolved nature.
But he didn't have time to kindof research and get all this
(04:56):
data together and write a bookabout all these different ways,
and so he put an ad inmonstercom, of all places,
finding someone to research andwrite this book and it was
pretty much an automatic becauseI wasn't necessarily sure what
it was going to be like and yeah, but I remember my son was in
preschool and I remember beinglate, picking him up, like I'm,
(05:18):
because we talked for so longand I feel like we really gelled
and some of the things he wastalking about, some of the
things that I had dealt with,like, you know, we're not
sleeping right and we're noteating right and the way we
approach work isn't right andyou know, being with nature, we
need to be in nature more andour connections and all that.
I'm like yes, yes, yes, and itjust started to make sense Like
all of these, all the reasonsthat I was not happy or maybe
(05:41):
not even not healthy, eventhough I was a collegiate
athlete.
You know one stuff I've hadlots of knee surgeries so I kind
of just you know my health andnutrition and being in shape,
kind of you know you have kidsand then you're busy, yeah.
But then I realized, you know,the more and more you talked,
I'm like this sounds so amazingand I didn't know at the time.
(06:02):
But what was amazing that Iknow now is that a lot of times
again, a lot of your listenersand maybe you guys do too you
beat yourselves up all the timefor like thinking that you're
not good enough or feeling likeyou know, why can't I lose
weight, why can't I eat healthy,why can't I exercise?
You know what?
For me it was like, well, whycan't I be a scientist and work
(06:25):
80 hours a week?
Like what's wrong with me, youknow?
And and through this writingprocess I realized, well, it's
not my fault, because societyand our culture has put so many
of these things like externalthings on us that are so not how
we used to live.
It's no wonder that we'remiserable, that are so not how
(06:47):
we used to live.
It's no wonder that we'remiserable.
And now that I understand that,it kind of took a weight off me
, thinking that, like you knowit was a moral failing, you know
it was.
It was this mismatch that wehave between what our brains and
our bodies really actually needand what our society and our
environment is giving us.
And so that was really helpfulfor me to start making changes,
because as soon as you stopblaming yourself for certain
(07:09):
things, it's easier to makechanges, you know.
And also, once you learn thesethings too it's not your fault,
but it is it becomes yourresponsibility, because making
these changes to improve yourhealth and wellness is it's not
going to come from outside.
The environment is not going tochange, but if you, it has to
come from you.
Jess (07:28):
Jenny, can you just touch a little bit, maybe at like a
high level, when you sayevolution has changed and that
has now caused our behaviors tochange?
What are some examples of?
Jenny Powers (07:38):
that, okay, well, so it's that.
So when we, when we wereevolving you know animals and
you know early humans, likeearly human hominins, and you
know we evolved in lockstep withour environment, right, we
evolved in response toenvironmental changes and we and
that's how you know our brainsgot bigger and we changed.
(08:00):
You know our upright stance andyou know all these different
things happened in response tothe environment.
We changed our upright stanceand all these different things
happened in response to theenvironment.
But then we got to the pointwhere our brains are so big and
we're creative and we'reintelligent that we started
being able to make changes tomeet challenges that didn't rely
on evolution.
We could just change ourbehavior, and that was
(08:21):
revolutionary because we didn'thave to wait hundreds of
thousands of years for ourbodies and our genes you know,
like a trait to evolve, to adaptto a situation.
We could change our behaviorand then pass that behavior on.
And so then the agriculturalrevolution came about 10,000
years ago, and that was kind ofa slow change.
(08:41):
And then the industrialrevolution came, and then the
information age, the InformationRevolution, came, and so each
one of those changes you know,10,000 years ago, 200 years ago,
50 years ago.
The rate at which ourenvironment is changing is so
high that our bodies are likewhat is going on.
(09:01):
That our bodies are like what isgoing on and also the fact that
we can change our behavior,like the culture and the
environment around us that we'vecreated is changing our
behaviors and we don't realizethat how we're changing our
behaviors is actually workingagainst our biology.
So not only has it happened sofast that our bodies haven't
(09:22):
evolved, but our behaviors haveevolved.
So we've kind of overshot.
You know we've, we'reovercompensating.
You know our behaviors are nowthey're not helping us.
Our behaviors are what'shurting us.
And so I'm hoping that ifpeople can realize, like, how a
lot of these behaviors evolved,like how we got to be hunter,
(09:43):
gatherers and how that was sucha successful adaptation for so
long, and then see how it kindof went wrong when we started
really changing our environment,because we're so creative and
intelligent, and how thosethings we kind of didn't think
about our bodies and what ourbodies actually needed when we
were making all of these changesand what our bodies actually
(10:05):
needed when we were making allof these changes.
Claude (10:07):
Do you think that?
Because again there's all this,you know, agriculture era, the
industry and then the informaticera.
I think that between theagriculture and the industry
there was a very long time.
And then suddenly after theindustry, it went really fast.
Jenny Powers (10:21):
I totally agree.
Claude (10:22):
And even in the informatic now, where we see,
even with our kids, we see ourbehavior changing so much.
Do you think that also hassomething with it, that our body
cannot adapt so fast becauseit's changed lately, it's
changed nonstop.
Jenny Powers (10:40):
That's exactly what's happening.
I totally agree that theagricultural revolution started
at all, but that was about10,000 years between then and
the industrial revolution.
And then the industrialrevolution, the rate of change
got steeper and then the age ofinformation got a lot steeper
and, like I said, we didn't makedecisions based on what our
(11:04):
bodies needed.
Our bodies are responding towhat our new and improved
technology and our lifestyle youknow it's being imposed upon
our bodies.
We are not necessarily makingthe best behavioral choices, the
best lifestyle choices, and Ibelieve it's because people just
don't really understand whatthose choices would be.
(11:26):
We've gotten so disconnectedfrom what we actually need and I
think, with the rise of allthese non-communicable diseases,
like anxiety and mental healthissues, but type 2 diabetes and
obesity and all of these thingsthat we never really used to
suffer from, I think becauseit's become such a chronic
problem that people are startingto turn to places to see okay,
(11:50):
there has to be a different way,there has to be another way
that we can live, and it turnsout like the way we nature like
kind of built into us what weneeded to survive and thrive,
and so we just kind of need toreturn to our roots a little bit
.
We know we've talked about howour genes haven't had much time
to evolve, so we still have allof those basic needs and our
(12:14):
genetic makeup is very similarto almost identical to what we
were as hunter gatherers, withfew exceptions.
So we all have that huntergatherer in us so we can all,
once we start knowing what weneed, you know our bodies will
take over and be like finally,you know you're giving me what
we need and what I need, and nowI can thrive and get you know,
(12:36):
reverse some of these diseasesof modernity.
Claude (12:40):
So what will be the steps?
To go back to what our bodyreally need and, you know, going
to the foundation that we had,yeah, well, I think, first of
all, people.
Jenny Powers (12:51):
It's going to kind of start with education, right,
I think, the more people whoare miserable and looking for
another way.
There's going to be kind of aperiod where people need to kind
of teach themselves how we usedto live, how we're living now,
and it's not like we can just goback and live like
hunter-gatherers and we wouldn'twant to.
Jess (13:11):
We won't, we'll live in the middle of nowhere.
Jenny Powers (13:14):
Yeah, even to some people it's like, wow, that's
so great.
But you know, our society'sgotten to the point where we
just we can't go back to livinglike that, and the modern world
is not all doom and gloom andhorrible.
You know, we have some amazingthings that our technology has
developed that could augment ourlives so much more if we were
healthy enough to enjoy it inthe ways that it.
(13:35):
You know, it could really helpus.
So first it's going to beeducation, but then I don't know
.
For me, when I was writing thebook, I got so overwhelmed with
everything I wasn't doing, likeit all started like just wave
after wave of I'm not doing this, I'm not doing this, I'm not
doing this, and so it was almostparalyzing for a while until I
(13:55):
started just making very smallchanges, and the changes that I
made were, you know, sleep, likebasic sleep, hygiene, getting
up, getting up, getting in sunin the morning, you know,
decreasing blue light at night.
Nutrition, eating more wholefoods, less processed foods.
That's easy Work, you know,I've really tried to learn how
(14:17):
to separate work, you know, fromthe rest of my life and not
have it be so integrated.
You know, have boundaries.
No-transcript, no-transcript,and it was just one little step
(15:04):
at a time.
Jess (15:05):
I think one of the things that I appreciated so much about
your book was that you do hit alot on these different topics
and then you also kind of goback to it's almost relying on
your community right, it's, thesmall changes start small and it
immediately reminded me of kindof what we were trying to do
with our work, bestie communityand the.
just reach out to that oneperson, become friends with that
(15:26):
one person at work and it'llstart to snowball and everybody
will start to appreciate andunderstand.
So I feel like when I wasreading some of the things in
your book it seemed to me thatthere's almost.
It goes back to theevolutionary element of it.
There is a desire and need forhumans to have these connections
(15:46):
and because of the speeding upof time we all feel more
isolated than we ever havebefore.
So, I'm curious if you agreewith that, if you think there is
a role that like Whether youwork best or your community
element of it, how that can help.
Like what kind of behaviors andelements Would we need to help
overcome some of these Stressesor things?
Jenny Powers (16:09):
Yeah, well, I feel like, you know, when we were
hunter gatherers, we Our bodies,needed to be at their best,
because we it was a survival,you know we needed to survive,
couldn't be sick, we couldn't beoverweight, we couldn't be
tired, you know.
So we really had to take careof our bodies.
But also, when we were huntergatherers, we could not survive
(16:32):
without other people, like weliterally depended on other
people to cooperate.
You know, we shared our food,we shared responsibilities, we
shared child rearing.
We had so many things that wewere just so reliant on each
other for, and it was essentialfor our survival.
So we might not need to, wemight not ever need to leave our
(16:55):
house, we might not ever needto see another person in order
to survive, but our psychologyand our bodies don't know that
we still have that drive and westill have that need.
So when those needs are met,there is, you know, pathology,
depression or anxiety, or youknow any number of things like
that, or anxiety, or you knowany number of things like that.
(17:20):
So I feel like also, it's kindof it's sort of a unique
American thing where we're allrugged individuals and we can
all pull ourselves up by ourbootstraps and you can do it
alone.
We go it alone and it's theantithesis of how we lived for
millions of years in a groupwhere we all helped each other,
no one had to get go it alone.
You know no one had to raisetheir children all by themselves
(17:41):
.
You know no one had to go towork and be all by themselves.
You know work, work was notonly do we work less, but we
worked a lot more with a kind ofa playful spirit, like making
connections with co workers.
You know the men would go huntand the women would go gather.
You know they both would leave,leave the house, you know,
(18:01):
leave the village and someonewould be at the village.
And to help the kids, you know,do with the kid thing.
Or oftentimes, you know theolder kids took care of little
kids and there was multi-group,multi-age play.
But you know the women hadtheir friends.
They would sing, they wouldlaugh, they would talk.
It was a social outing.
Right, going to work was asocial outing.
Yes, it was fun.
(18:24):
It was fun.
You know people you know hadbest, had best friends.
I mean you even see this inlike other primate communities,
like chimpanzee communities.
There are, like chimpanzee,best friends.
They will like they will, true,they will they will try to
actually go and do the thingsthey need to do with their
friend, because it makes it somuch better and so much easier
(18:45):
to do the things that are hard.
If you have a little bit of playin there and your best friend
always keeps you in check, youknow if you're getting too
anxious, you know they'll belike what are you talking about?
Or you know, or if you're youknow you're getting too anxious,
they'll be like what are youtalking about?
Or if you're lagging a littlebit, like come on, I need you,
you have to help me.
There's so many things thathaving that social connection
(19:05):
with someone else just balancesyou out present moment because
you have somebody there with you.
If you're all by yourself,you're more likely to start
worrying about the future orlike thinking about oh God, why
did I say that to my boss?
You know you're like you'reliving in the past or you're
(19:26):
living in the future, and Ithink being in social groups,
being around other people, helpsanchor you into more of the
present moment, which issomething something we haven't
chatted about.
Jess (19:36):
You're right, I think, because you are.
You're having so much funinteracting with that person.
It's more about what'shappening right then and there
versus thinking about the past.
Well, not only the past, butlike I just need to work five
more hours because I was goingto prove to everyone that I get
to get to the next level andright yeah, so you're put like
it's.
It's okay just to sit there andlive in the moment with your,
(19:59):
your work best.
You probably have more fun.
Jenny Powers (20:01):
But it's not like you don't think about the future
or the past, but you bring alittle more levity to it.
It's not quite serious and ifyou, if you live more in the
present moment, you, your body'snot in constant fight or flight
, so you're actually moreequipped to deal with problems
that come up.
If you think about the futureand you're in a more centered
(20:21):
present state of mind, it'seasier for you to figure out how
to deal with something.
Jess (20:26):
Right.
Jenny Powers (20:27):
When you're not just so in the future, so
worried, anxious, anxious,anxious, fight or flight all the
time.
I think people are like, well,you can't just live in the
present moment, and it's true.
But if you can be more present,then the changes in your body
make it, so you can, you havemore resources to deal with with
(20:49):
, you know, future problems.
Jess (20:51):
Yeah, it gives you the ability then to, when you are in
that moment where you have tothink about the future or
reflect on the past.
you're coming at it with a muchmore grounded, relaxed, sound
state of mind.
Yeah, I love that.
There's many reasons why Ireally liked your book and
wanted to have you on ourpodcast, one of which was the
(21:12):
fact that social connectionscontinue to come up a lot in
your book, one of which was thefact that social connections
continued to come up a lot inyour book.
The other one, though, that I'dlove to chat a little bit about
, too, is the connection tonature.
So this season in our workbesties, we're really focusing
on wellness and tips and tricksfor our work.
Bestie.
Community out there, communityout there, and one of the
(21:34):
elements that you had in yourbook was all around like,
sometimes just being out innature in and of itself helps
you to kind of ground yourself.
Jenny Powers (21:45):
Do you mind talking a little bit about that?
Sure, well, I think it followsreally nicely with what we were
talking about.
because, about being present,because, there's nothing more
being in the present than beingin nature.
You know, you were looking atflowers and trees in the sky and
you have this sense of awe.
It's very grounding in thepresent moment and there's
(22:07):
actually an evolutionary reasonfor that.
The people who were attuned tonature were the ones who were
more successful.
They were the ones who tookcare of their bodies better,
because they could predict, like, oh, you know, there's a storm
coming, I can sense there's astorm coming, so they would
protect themselves.
Or, you know, if they were in asituation where there were
(22:28):
maybe predators around, you hadto be very in tuned to what was
going on around you.
Like are the birds singing?
Oh, the birds stop singing.
What?
What does that mean?
A branch has bent a certain way.
I know it's because the youknow, the animal that we're
hunting is went this way.
So we need to follow it so likeyou're so focused in on what's
around you and and it's it'sdifferent because it's you have
(22:51):
all of these senses, all of yoursenses are in play, but they're
not being overwhelmed Like ifyou are in the city street and
there's cars and there's noiseand there's people and you know
there's pollution, you know youhave to walk around things.
That's like a sensory overload,right.
But when you're out in natureyou kind of have this passive.
All of your senses are workingand they're like they just have
(23:12):
kind of gentle feedback.
You're not being assaulted,you're just able to kind of like
take it in at your own pace andand it's being in the present
moment and actually I'm sureyou've heard of forest bathing
there are all these new studiescoming out that show how being
in nature like reduces yourblood pressure, reduces the
cortisol in your body and all ofthat I think is wonderful for
(23:36):
your mental health and yourphysical health.
So then when you go back to youknow if you spend some time in
nature and then go back to work,you're more productive, you're
more creative.
They actually have studieswhere people who went into
nature instead of went for awalk in the city had like better
scores on like measures ofcreativity and like better
cognition, you know, but notonly.
(23:57):
But yeah, better mental health,be more content, less stressed,
but also better cognitivehealth.
Claude (24:04):
So what were you calling ?
Because I didn't know.
The term is forest.
Jenny Powers (24:09):
Forest bathing.
Forest bathing, yeah, and sothere's actually this Japanese
term that it means forestbathing, and it comes from Japan
, where they actually have thedoctors over there prescribed
you need to go be in nature.
Yeah, it's actually aprescription of like this is
(24:29):
what I think you need, and itmakes total sense that being in
nature would benefit our bodies,because nature is our natural
habitat.
We are the species that doesnot live in our natural habitat
and is actually well, I wasgoing to say, thriving.
I don't know about that.
It varies, right, yeah, itvaries, but if you take other
(24:50):
animals out of the naturalhabitat, they don't do very well
unless they're really supportedand get their needs.
But it's amazing that wehaven't gone extinct yet,
because we're not, you know,we're totally in a completely
artificial habitat, which noother species on the planet has
ever done.
Jess (25:10):
So and yet we still continue to live longer, which
is interesting.
Jenny Powers (25:16):
Well, maybe so, but what's our health span?
Yeah, it's not necessarilyhealthily, but yeah, I mean, I
actually think our, our lifespanis actually going down for the
first time, really okay, um, andour health span is not.
It is going way down.
You know you might live tillyou're 75 on average, but like
how many of those the last 10,15 years are you enjoying it?
(25:39):
Are you healthy?
Jess (25:40):
Yeah.
Interesting, so so yeah, so welive in a city so we don't have
a lot of just direct nature.
But I mean, I will say one ofmy things that I enjoy most and
I feel much more centered on thedays where I run in Central
Park, because I tend to run notjust on the main path but in the
(26:00):
like hiking trail area.
So you are like literally, it'slike trail running.
You're not in and around people,it's like just you with trees,
and I do feel much more calm andcentered on those days.
Are there other ideas of thingsthat those that do work in a
city can do throughout the day?
Jenny Powers (26:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think some people feellike, oh well, in order to
interact with nature, I have tolike make this big deal and like
go to Yellowstone.
Jess (26:27):
Yeah, go find a mountain to hike.
Jenny Powers (26:29):
You know little community gardens, or something
that I'm doing is just lookingat the clouds, watching the
sunset, like what's the qualityof the light?
You know what are the, you knowthe clouds pink, you know is
there a storm coming?
But also just looking at, likepaying attention to the tree
that's right there in busy citystreet.
You can like look at the leavesand be like it's starting to
(26:51):
change or I wonder what kind oftree this is.
Just having that, thatcuriosity and and man-made
nature, like flower gardens, orbeing able to like you know, I
heard there's, you know, peoplewho grow their own herbs in like
a high-rise apartment buildingin New York City and just the
the act of growing your ownherbs, you're getting your hands
(27:13):
in there and actually creatingsomething, letting something
grow.
All of those things areinteracting with nature.
Claude (27:20):
It's almost stepping back right from even our
everyday life and enjoying, likeyou said, enjoying the present
and enjoying the sunset, thesunrise in anywhere, the beauty
of nature.
I love what you say, that youdon't have to go on in a
mountain or you know a hill.
Jenny Powers (27:38):
You, you can find it, and a lot of time we don't
see that it's really reachingout for this beauty yeah, and in
order to do that we have toslow down, because we're we're
running from thing to thing,we're eating in our cars, we
don't have time to like sit andlook around when we're at a
stoplight, but it's somethingthat I've tried to learn how to
(28:01):
do and I've also really tried toteach my kids like we're riding
in the car oh, my gosh, look atthose clouds.
Oh, did you see that bird?
You know like just not beinginternal and like in our heads
and in our car going to our nextthing, but like what's going on
around us, because there's somany things that are nature that
you don't really think about,that you kind of take for
(28:21):
granted, and so becoming moreattuned to those things is
really helps your state of mind.
Claude (28:27):
And I mean I love it because you were, you know,
saying about teaching your kidsand I've always done that with
my son, I think he was sick of.
It was like oh my God, look atthe sky.
Oh my God, look at that cloudand white was about two weeks
ago and he's a teenager, so youknow.
Jenny Powers (28:44):
I guess I have one of those.
Claude (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
But then and I was so happy andso proud because he came to see
me and then he left the roomand he looked outside like oh
wow, look at that cloud, look atthe sunset, and I was so happy
that he stopped and look at it.
You know, and appreciate.
I think that you're right.
(29:06):
It's also teaching you know thepeople to just step out, and
it's not only on video games andthings like that, because I do
believe that we were like yousay, we were gatherer, but all
this informatic and everythingwe feel very lonely.
You don't have this interactionas much as we used to.
Jenny Powers (29:29):
Totally, and I think that really goes back to
what we were talking about interms of being around other
people.
Like you had an influence onyour son because you were a
model for him of seeing thingsin a different way, maybe, so
that being together andinfluencing the people around
you to slow down, influencingthe people around you to start
(29:52):
opening their eyes and lookingat nature it comes from.
We're communicative, social,intelligent creatures, and that
is how we teach and we learn,and that is how things, that's
how we change, and so, like wehave to have, we have to be
around other people in order totransmit the things that we know
(30:13):
to be good for us, and thenthose people who we've taught
can teach others, and that's howit spreads.
Jess (30:20):
So it kind of goes back to yes, you can teach your kids,
which is great, and yes, but youalso can teach those in your
work environment to leverageyour work bestie.
And we have been talking abouthow, throughout the day, you
have your five minute break.
Another great example is justtaking whether it's the five
minutes or a couple, you knowhalf an hour of just going out
(30:41):
and appreciating something elseand actually saying it to people
, either going with them or, youknow, having those
conversations, Because it's thesmall changes you commented on
right.
Jenny Powers (30:52):
Yeah, and a lot of people think like, oh man, I
don't have time for that, I haveso much to do, when in reality
the studies have shown thattaking breaks actually improves
your performance.
You know, once you reach acertain point, like working more
isn't going to, you know youneed to take a break so you can
come back and then you'll bemore productive yeah, yeah.
Jess (31:12):
So, jenny, you hit on a couple of things that really
make sense for the working styleworld.
What else would you recommendor talk about?
That you think are kind of someeither small changes or big
changes that can help when youare a person who does work a
nine to five or very.
You know it's kind of sittingat your desk style job.
Jenny Powers (31:35):
Yeah, well, probably like kind of the four
main things.
If we look at hunter, gatherersand how they approached work,
there's kind of four things andwe kind of touched on one of
them, which is having more funand using like a playful spirit
at work.
Also, we also alluded toanother.
One is like we need to makesure we take our breaks and
enjoy our leisure time and weneed to start listening to our
(31:57):
bodies.
If we're sick, we have to takecare of ourselves.
If we're tired, we need to goto sleep.
We can't be like oh, I got tostay up for three more hours to
finish this.
It'll eventually happen.
I do the same thing, todd,literally texted me the other
day.
Jess (32:11):
like I know you're still up working, go to bed.
Jenny Powers (32:22):
Because our bodies , we don't necessarily have to
rely on our bodies and whetheror not we're alert to survive
anymore, but it does.
You know, it does help ourhealth.
Yeah, we like I like I wassaying we work so much longer
than hunter-gatherers maybe onlyhunter-gatherers, maybe only
worked 30 percent of the timewhen they were awake, maybe like
16 hours a week, you know,getting food and things like
that, and then they learned howto enjoy their themselves, right
(32:42):
.
So, and we talked about beingin the present moment they lived
and worked in the presentmoment and that really helps as
well.
Claude (32:50):
It was like, yes, they were working less because again
it's a different type of working, but it has again has to do
with nature, because again itwas a different habitat.
Right you had, they were moreor less working with the sunset
and sunrise.
No, sunrise and sunset.
(33:11):
Sunrise and sunset, yeah.
You know so it's really thatwas depending on nature.
Jenny Powers (33:18):
They were very attuned to the ebb and flow of
the day.
Mm-hmm.
And there was one other thing.
So that would help people inthe modern working world, and
this is another hard one to do.
So it's like slow down but alsowe don't need, we can live with
less and if we don't need asmuch.
(33:38):
So an entire hunter gatherergroup had fewer belongings than
one agriculturalist early on,like they just had the things
that they could carry on theirbacks because they were nomadic.
They moved all around, likethings were not important to
them.
It was their relationships.
It was how they interacted, itwas celebrations and dancing and
singing, and it was reallyabout relationships and
(34:01):
connections, not about stuff.
And so I think people getcaught up in I need to work more
so I can make more money, so Ican afford this stuff.
And then it gets to the pointwhere you know I have to work
more so I can make more money,so I can rent a storage facility
, so I can keep all my stuff inthe storage facility.
(34:22):
Um, because there's like houseshave gotten bigger and bigger
and the number of people wholive in them have gotten fewer
and fewer, and yet we still havegarages full of stuff and we
still have storage facilitiesfull of and we don't.
It's a.
Jess (34:38):
It's a cultural shift that has to happen, but we could
live with less and if we hadless, we could work less I say
that as a person who I'm a avidclothes shoppers always battle
with that too, where I'm like Idon, I don't need this.
I hear you, though, cause Ithink I do feel so much better
(34:58):
when I go and do like a closetcleansing and I get all the
stuff out of there and I can seeeverything that I have, like
you do feel, I don't know ifit's psychological or what, but
I do feel better.
So I kind of understand whatyou mean, and it probably does
go back to the hunting gatheringdays, when you would, if I had
to run, I wouldn't be able tograb any of this stuff.
So what does it really matter?
Jenny Powers (35:18):
You got to move out fast.
You just got to.
You got to, you know, grab yourkids and grab the stuff you can
carry and go, and that actuallyprovided people a lot of
freedom.
You know, if once, once, youwere in a house and you had all
this stuff and it was a badsituation, you didn't feel like
you could leave right, whereasif you just needed all the
(35:39):
things on your back and youcould just get out of a bad
situation, you could move toanother group.
You know there wasn't any hardand fast rules about having to
stay.
You know where you are, youknow, yeah, you, there's the all
these groups kind ofintermingled and came together,
went apart.
You could just go somewhereelse and find a better situation
for yourself.
You don't feel that human being, though.
(36:00):
They need that belonging, thatsense of belonging yeah, yeah,
so you have to find it somewhereelse don't, yeah, force it go
find that yeah, don't, don't gooff and be by yourself, because
being by yourself is like theworst hunter-gatherer society.
Being alone is like a deathsentence, right?
(36:21):
So if you're not getting whatyou need in this particular
group, you go find another group.
You take it, you know yourstuff off.
Jess (36:28):
You have the freedom to move to another group and find
what you need there so some ofour listeners are a little
younger and they probably arepart of those that are very much
attached to the social mediaaspect.
And then we know that certainelements like Instagram is not
exactly always real or at all.
(36:51):
What would be kind of youradvice for for, like the younger
generation, if they're attunedto that Like, how do you help
them adjust back to to?
Jenny Powers (37:00):
your point.
This is not what our bodies arereally meant for, because, on
one hand, we can find the peoplewho think like you know, we can
find our people, we can findthe people who find our tribe,
and we might not necessarilylive in the same state, right,
(37:25):
or the same country even, butthe fact that we can find each
other and interact, I thinkthat's great.
Using social media for that, asopposed to using social media
to attack somebody or, you know,compare ourselves with somebody
or, you know, put something outthere so we get likes, so we
can feed our self esteem.
You know those.
Those are not the good ways touse social media.
But if you're using socialmedia to connect with people and
and like, have friendships andstuff like that, I think that's
(37:47):
a wonderful use of social media.
However, there are limits tosocial media and we were talking
about this, I think, before westarted recording.
You know there are actualphysiological things that happen
when you're in the same roomwith somebody.
That's different than being ona screen.
I mean, you can get some of itfrom being on a screen or be.
Just being in contact withpeople is so important, but
being in a physical, being inphysical contact with somebody
(38:10):
has so many other benefits.
You know, like we were talkingabout.
You know, hugging somebody, youget oxytocin release, which is
that belonging, feel goodchemical.
You know, when you're sittingacross from somebody you start
like mirroring their oh.
You know you start mirroringtheir, their facial.
You know their body languageand their facial expressions.
Those are mirror mirroringneurons and that makes you kind
(38:33):
of feel like you're on the samewavelength with that person.
And I haven't seen that happenas much on, you know, on social
media or face to you know, on azoom call.
There's not that like.
You know, you can still getinto that, you know the giggles
and you can still kind of feelthis energy, but it's not quite
the same as being in person inthe same same room.
Claude (38:52):
Yeah, and, and sometimes I have to say also when,
because text also is huge but,again.
It's so easy to misunderstand atext, right that oh, meanwhile,
when you're talking.
Jess (39:06):
It's very easy, you know you understand, you ask me and
text you.
You know it depends on readyour own connotation exactly,
depending on which one.
Claude (39:16):
You know what mood you're in.
Like.
There's this commercial.
That's no, that's mean.
So it's actually very funnythat you have it's between two
people.
That one, you know, reads thewrong way, yeah, when the other
one, that is sending is reallykey and peel have done a skit on
it.
Jess (39:33):
It's hysterical where the one's like like, do you still
want to go out tonight?
And he's just like he's sendingis really he and Peele have
done a skit on it.
It's hysterical.
It's really good Like, do youstill want to go out tonight?
He's like do you still want togo out tonight?
And he's like asking, like in anice way, and he's like what do
you mean?
Do you want to go out tonight?
And his response is like Idon't know, do you Like
aggressive, you know?
Claude (39:55):
It was he's like all light and positive.
But I think too it reallydepends.
And I think also at the sametime, technology did help us
during COVID to stay inconnection.
It was the only type ofconnection you could have, the
only time you could have.
But then again afterwards Iknow, for example, with my
friends work bestie or whatever,with my friends work bestie or
whatever, once we found eachother again in real life you
(40:23):
know it was again that need oftouch that was so important.
Jess (40:27):
Yeah, Well, we know I did want to ask you, jenny, because
we did reference this a littlebit before we started recording.
I saw that your book which Ihighly recommend to those that
are listening to get a copy ofit and read it on the origin of
being, but I saw that this isbook one of three, right?
(40:50):
Do you care to talk a littlebit about, maybe, what's the
book number two and when thatmight be?
Jenny Powers (40:56):
Sure, sure, like as I was talking about when I
met Luke and he was telling meabout all these different things
where we're not living inalignment.
The first book was really justabout sleep, nutrition, work and
rest in nature, but there aresix other areas of you know, of
our evolutionary behaviors thatwe think are really important
too and they kind of move up inin like complexity, I guess.
(41:20):
So these are our basic needs.
Book one is our basic needs andthen book two focuses a lot on
what we were talking about today, like our social groups, our
social connections, why, why weevolved this way, why it's
important, and child rearing.
You know, because I'm sure wecould have tons of podcasts
about parenting, about the sexes, like you know, have we always
(41:44):
been in a male dominated society?
Let's see if we have anevolutionary record right.
You know, like we were talkingabout earlier, women used to
always were women worked awayfrom the home all the time.
You know what I mean.
So there's so much rich stuffthere to talk about and to think
about.
So that's book two, and thenbook three kind of gets into
(42:04):
more complex things like thearts.
You know, how does storytellingand singing and dancing, how
does that affect us and how doesthat affect how we bond with
other people?
Rituals how important ritualsare, rites of passage are, and
then we talk about religion andspirituality.
So these are like really highlevel human stuff, you know.
(42:25):
And so that that's in bookthree, and so we're hoping to at
the end of this year to releasebook two and then the end of
next year really release bookthree.
Jess (42:33):
So it'll be our little trilogy two and then the end of
next year really release bookthree.
So it'll be our little trilogytrilogy.
I feel like all three of thesebooks are so on brand for the
work besties and cool kind ofexplain some of the the why
behind the importance of havinga work bestie.
So we we appreciate you beingon and we're going to be looking
forward to reading book two andthree and we may tap you again
(42:53):
if you're interested yeah, Ireally enjoyed talking to you.
Jenny Powers (42:58):
It's been a really fun conversation and I, like I
said, I love the.
I would be so much fun to likehave a podcast with my best
friend and my work bestie.
Yeah, I mean, I just love.
I love the concept and theenergy that you guys play off of
each other and bring um.
It's been a really fun, reallyfun talking with you.
Jess (43:17):
Well, the good news is that there's so many other work
besties out there that are likethis that you want to continue
to start that movement and, justlike you said, one small change
at a time, one little change ata time, all it takes one small
change and you take a step backand you're like okay, I mastered
that.
Jenny Powers (43:41):
Let's do the next step, Yep, Having your work
bestie at your side or yourbestie you know they don't have
to be your work bestie, but justyour bestie Having somebody at
your side while you're doingthose things makes those things
easier to do and they stick andthey last longer and you support
each other.
Jess (43:48):
Even the hard things.
Yeah, it's make it or break it.
The nutrition, like payingattention to not having so much
sugar, having that one exercisea day or whatever it definitely
helps.
Claude (43:59):
It's like you have, you know, a gym buddy and you know
all those different that helpyou to be accountable.
Yeah exactly Because it's veryhard alone and having a work
bestie that became a bestie orwork bestie that makes a big
difference.
Jenny Powers (44:15):
Totally Well.
Thank you, jenny.
The work bestie that became abestie or work best, that makes
a big difference.
Totally it's not.
If it's not what you do, it'swho you spend your time with oh,
yeah, oh definitely.
Jess (44:22):
That's an amazing tagline you should totally make.
Jenny Powers (44:29):
Make that your little work.
Besties who podcast, it's notwhat you do, it's who you're
with yeah, just like that,you're gonna see it change
steady, you can have that.
You can have that one gosh,this has been amazing.
Jess (44:47):
Thank you so much.
Um, I just so appreciate youbeing willing to come on our our
humble podcast because I feel,as we mentioned, we heard you on
other podcasts and you are justsuch a wealth of knowledge and
so interesting and I love thatyou could kind of help explain
it in art.
So we appreciate that oh,you're welcome.
Jenny Powers (45:05):
Thank, thank you very much.
Like I said, it was sowonderful that you reached out
and were interested.
I'm like this sounds like agreat, a great match.
Um, yeah'm looking.
I'll keep in touch with you all.
Jess (45:16):
Definitely, I would love that so for all the work besties
out there.
We hope you enjoyed this and wehope you take away from this to
do just one small change, evenif it is just reaching out and
finding a new bestie, or it'sthinking about your nutrition,
yeah, doing with your bestiegoing out in nature, just
appreciating things, taking thatstep to recharge.
(45:38):
Um, and don't forget to checkout jenny's book on the origin
of being and her upcoming bookseries, which we're all excited
about, and make sure to like andsubscribe and check out jenny's
socials.
That we will keep in our notes.
So with that, thank you all.
Thank you all, bye.
Remember, whether you'reswapping snacks in the break
(46:00):
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme,having a work bestie is like
having your own personal hypesquad.
Claude (46:10):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
Are you ready to reclaim your wellness?
Learn how understandingevolution and aligning with our
primal needs can help you andyour work bestie.
Recharge, realign and thrivethroughout your day.
So tune in today and listen toJenny Powers share how nature
holds the key to healing and ouroptimal health.
Claude (00:20):
Hi, I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:29):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties Hello everybody.
Welcome to Work Besties whoPodcast.
Hi everyone.
Hello everybody.
Welcome to Work Besties whoPodcast.
Hi everyone.
Welcome, jenny.
We're so excited to have JennyPowers with us.
(00:50):
Thank you so much for having me.
Jenny Powers (00:51):
I'm excited to be here.
Jess (00:59):
Of course I'll give a little bit about you.
You are a scientist and authorand a former intercollegiate
athlete as well, and you've gota great mix of expertise in
engineering, immunology and apassion for writing.
I know I read your book on theorigin of being.
It's amazing and I am soexcited to have you on to
explore some of the topics thatyou have in there and talk about
(01:21):
how it kind of relates to someof the things that we in our
Workvesty community talk about.
Jenny Powers (01:27):
Yeah, well, like I was saying, I've listened to
some of your podcasts and I'mlike nodding along and thinking
I think there's a lot of stuff Ican say that kind of like
totally jives with what you guysare doing.
Jess (01:39):
Yeah.
Claude (01:40):
Yeah, I know.
Jess (01:41):
We've listened to some of your podcasts with other guests,
and it's interesting.
You talk a lot about nutritionand sleep and a lot of the
amazing wellness things that Iknow our work besties would love
, but then there's also some ofthose other things about the
relationships and the personalbeing with somebody and
connection that I think we'rereally interested to dive into
(02:02):
and talk with you about.
Before we do that, though, doyou want to give a little bit of
a background on yourself?
Jenny Powers (02:08):
Well, like you said, I've kind of done a lot of
things all around.
My dad was in the Air Force.
We moved all around.
I went to high school in DC,came out to Colorado to study
engineering and play basketballand then I was like, oh well,
you know, maybe I don't want todo engineering, maybe I'll do
biological sciences.
So I got into the PhD programat the University of Colorado
(02:30):
studying immunology and then Iwas kind of in my mid 20s and
I'd had a lot of success.
But I think, as probably a lotof your listeners and maybe even
you guys have, I got so caughtup in my achievements, being
like my worth was completelytied up in what I achieved and
it wasn't necessarily doing thework that I loved and doing my
(02:54):
passion, and so I was not veryhappy, kind of doing the whole
postdoc thing.
Learning about the human bodyis amazing and, and you know,
has served me, but it wasn'treally what I wanted to do.
So when I left academia Ididn't really know what I was
going to do, except really deepdown inside I knew I wanted to
be a writer.
But for some reason you haveall these external expectations
(03:15):
put on you and you have allthese internal expectations and
for some reason, like being awriter, wasn't even on that list
.
So when I, when I stoppedacademia, I actually started
writing middle grade fiction,which is eight to 12 year olds,
and I started writing adultshort stories and I started
doing a little bit of nonfiction, maybe for children.
But it wasn't until thisopportunity to research and
write this book with my coauthor, luke Comer, came along
(03:38):
that I really was able to likebring my scientific background
and writing together and be ableto actually use a lot of what I
trained for for so many yearswas really a very fortuitous
meeting, and so the process ofwriting the book and then the
process of getting it out thereand now being on podcasts and
meeting amazing people all overthe world, it's just really
(04:01):
changed my life.
So it's been really changed mylife.
So it's it's been very a veryinteresting ride.
Claude (04:06):
You can see, at the end of the day you have like your
both passions, that you wereable to fuse together.
You know, and that's fantastic,it's not given to a lot of
people to finally find, you know, their the passion, the
combination of the passions soyou mentioned your co-writer,
Luke, who helped you with thewriting of it.
Jess (04:26):
What was that like when you met with him?
Was it like an instant bond?
How did that all come about?
Jenny Powers (04:31):
with our genetics and our biological cells through
nutrition and all of hisresearch into that.
He's noticed all these otherthings, other ways that we're
not living in accord with ourevolved nature.
But he didn't have time to kindof research and get all this
(04:56):
data together and write a bookabout all these different ways,
and so he put an ad inmonstercom, of all places,
finding someone to research andwrite this book and it was
pretty much an automatic becauseI wasn't necessarily sure what
it was going to be like and yeah, but I remember my son was in
preschool and I remember beinglate, picking him up, like I'm,
(05:18):
because we talked for so longand I feel like we really gelled
and some of the things he wastalking about, some of the
things that I had dealt with,like, you know, we're not
sleeping right and we're noteating right and the way we
approach work isn't right andyou know, being with nature, we
need to be in nature more andour connections and all that.
I'm like yes, yes, yes, and itjust started to make sense Like
all of these, all the reasonsthat I was not happy or maybe
(05:41):
not even not healthy, eventhough I was a collegiate
athlete.
You know one stuff I've hadlots of knee surgeries so I kind
of just you know my health andnutrition and being in shape,
kind of you know you have kidsand then you're busy, yeah.
But then I realized, you know,the more and more you talked,
I'm like this sounds so amazingand I didn't know at the time.
(06:02):
But what was amazing that Iknow now is that a lot of times
again, a lot of your listenersand maybe you guys do too you
beat yourselves up all the timefor like thinking that you're
not good enough or feeling likeyou know, why can't I lose
weight, why can't I eat healthy,why can't I exercise?
You know what?
For me it was like, well, whycan't I be a scientist and work
(06:25):
80 hours a week?
Like what's wrong with me, youknow?
And and through this writingprocess I realized, well, it's
not my fault, because societyand our culture has put so many
of these things like externalthings on us that are so not how
we used to live.
It's no wonder that we'remiserable, that are so not how
(06:47):
we used to live.
It's no wonder that we'remiserable.
And now that I understand that,it kind of took a weight off me
, thinking that, like you knowit was a moral failing, you know
it was.
It was this mismatch that wehave between what our brains and
our bodies really actually needand what our society and our
environment is giving us.
And so that was really helpfulfor me to start making changes,
because as soon as you stopblaming yourself for certain
(07:09):
things, it's easier to makechanges, you know.
And also, once you learn thesethings too it's not your fault,
but it is it becomes yourresponsibility, because making
these changes to improve yourhealth and wellness is it's not
going to come from outside.
The environment is not going tochange, but if you, it has to
come from you.
Jess (07:28):
Jenny, can you just touch a little bit, maybe at like a
high level, when you sayevolution has changed and that
has now caused our behaviors tochange?
What are some examples of?
Jenny Powers (07:38):
that, okay, well, so it's that.
So when we, when we wereevolving you know animals and
you know early humans, likeearly human hominins, and you
know we evolved in lockstep withour environment, right, we
evolved in response toenvironmental changes and we and
that's how you know our brainsgot bigger and we changed.
(08:00):
You know our upright stance andyou know all these different
things happened in response tothe environment.
We changed our upright stanceand all these different things
happened in response to theenvironment.
But then we got to the pointwhere our brains are so big and
we're creative and we'reintelligent that we started
being able to make changes tomeet challenges that didn't rely
on evolution.
We could just change ourbehavior, and that was
(08:21):
revolutionary because we didn'thave to wait hundreds of
thousands of years for ourbodies and our genes you know,
like a trait to evolve, to adaptto a situation.
We could change our behaviorand then pass that behavior on.
And so then the agriculturalrevolution came about 10,000
years ago, and that was kind ofa slow change.
(08:41):
And then the industrialrevolution came, and then the
information age, the InformationRevolution, came, and so each
one of those changes you know,10,000 years ago, 200 years ago,
50 years ago.
The rate at which ourenvironment is changing is so
high that our bodies are likewhat is going on.
(09:01):
That our bodies are like what isgoing on and also the fact that
we can change our behavior,like the culture and the
environment around us that we'vecreated is changing our
behaviors and we don't realizethat how we're changing our
behaviors is actually workingagainst our biology.
So not only has it happened sofast that our bodies haven't
(09:22):
evolved, but our behaviors haveevolved.
So we've kind of overshot.
You know we've, we'reovercompensating.
You know our behaviors are nowthey're not helping us.
Our behaviors are what'shurting us.
And so I'm hoping that ifpeople can realize, like, how a
lot of these behaviors evolved,like how we got to be hunter,
(09:43):
gatherers and how that was sucha successful adaptation for so
long, and then see how it kindof went wrong when we started
really changing our environment,because we're so creative and
intelligent, and how thosethings we kind of didn't think
about our bodies and what ourbodies actually needed when we
were making all of these changesand what our bodies actually
(10:05):
needed when we were making allof these changes.
Claude (10:07):
Do you think that?
Because again there's all this,you know, agriculture era, the
industry and then the informaticera.
I think that between theagriculture and the industry
there was a very long time.
And then suddenly after theindustry, it went really fast.
Jenny Powers (10:21):
I totally agree.
Claude (10:22):
And even in the informatic now, where we see,
even with our kids, we see ourbehavior changing so much.
Do you think that also hassomething with it, that our body
cannot adapt so fast becauseit's changed lately, it's
changed nonstop.
Jenny Powers (10:40):
That's exactly what's happening.
I totally agree that theagricultural revolution started
at all, but that was about10,000 years between then and
the industrial revolution.
And then the industrialrevolution, the rate of change
got steeper and then the age ofinformation got a lot steeper
and, like I said, we didn't makedecisions based on what our
(11:04):
bodies needed.
Our bodies are responding towhat our new and improved
technology and our lifestyle youknow it's being imposed upon
our bodies.
We are not necessarily makingthe best behavioral choices, the
best lifestyle choices, and Ibelieve it's because people just
don't really understand whatthose choices would be.
(11:26):
We've gotten so disconnectedfrom what we actually need and I
think, with the rise of allthese non-communicable diseases,
like anxiety and mental healthissues, but type 2 diabetes and
obesity and all of these thingsthat we never really used to
suffer from, I think becauseit's become such a chronic
problem that people are startingto turn to places to see okay,
(11:50):
there has to be a different way,there has to be another way
that we can live, and it turnsout like the way we nature like
kind of built into us what weneeded to survive and thrive,
and so we just kind of need toreturn to our roots a little bit
.
We know we've talked about howour genes haven't had much time
to evolve, so we still have allof those basic needs and our
(12:14):
genetic makeup is very similarto almost identical to what we
were as hunter gatherers, withfew exceptions.
So we all have that huntergatherer in us so we can all,
once we start knowing what weneed, you know our bodies will
take over and be like finally,you know you're giving me what
we need and what I need, and nowI can thrive and get you know,
(12:36):
reverse some of these diseasesof modernity.
Claude (12:40):
So what will be the steps?
To go back to what our bodyreally need and, you know, going
to the foundation that we had,yeah, well, I think, first of
all, people.
Jenny Powers (12:51):
It's going to kind of start with education, right,
I think, the more people whoare miserable and looking for
another way.
There's going to be kind of aperiod where people need to kind
of teach themselves how we usedto live, how we're living now,
and it's not like we can just goback and live like
hunter-gatherers and we wouldn'twant to.
Jess (13:11):
We won't, we'll live in the middle of nowhere.
Jenny Powers (13:14):
Yeah, even to some people it's like, wow, that's
so great.
But you know, our society'sgotten to the point where we
just we can't go back to livinglike that, and the modern world
is not all doom and gloom andhorrible.
You know, we have some amazingthings that our technology has
developed that could augment ourlives so much more if we were
healthy enough to enjoy it inthe ways that it.
(13:35):
You know, it could really helpus.
So first it's going to beeducation, but then I don't know
.
For me, when I was writing thebook, I got so overwhelmed with
everything I wasn't doing, likeit all started like just wave
after wave of I'm not doing this, I'm not doing this, I'm not
doing this, and so it was almostparalyzing for a while until I
(13:55):
started just making very smallchanges, and the changes that I
made were, you know, sleep, likebasic sleep, hygiene, getting
up, getting up, getting in sunin the morning, you know,
decreasing blue light at night.
Nutrition, eating more wholefoods, less processed foods.
That's easy Work, you know,I've really tried to learn how
(14:17):
to separate work, you know, fromthe rest of my life and not
have it be so integrated.
You know, have boundaries.
No-transcript, no-transcript,and it was just one little step
(15:04):
at a time.
Jess (15:05):
I think one of the things that I appreciated so much about
your book was that you do hit alot on these different topics
and then you also kind of goback to it's almost relying on
your community right, it's, thesmall changes start small and it
immediately reminded me of kindof what we were trying to do
with our work, bestie communityand the.
just reach out to that oneperson, become friends with that
(15:26):
one person at work and it'llstart to snowball and everybody
will start to appreciate andunderstand.
So I feel like when I wasreading some of the things in
your book it seemed to me thatthere's almost.
It goes back to theevolutionary element of it.
There is a desire and need forhumans to have these connections
(15:46):
and because of the speeding upof time we all feel more
isolated than we ever havebefore.
So, I'm curious if you agreewith that, if you think there is
a role that like Whether youwork best or your community
element of it, how that can help.
Like what kind of behaviors andelements Would we need to help
overcome some of these Stressesor things?
Jenny Powers (16:09):
Yeah, well, I feel like, you know, when we were
hunter gatherers, we Our bodies,needed to be at their best,
because we it was a survival,you know we needed to survive,
couldn't be sick, we couldn't beoverweight, we couldn't be
tired, you know.
So we really had to take careof our bodies.
But also, when we were huntergatherers, we could not survive
(16:32):
without other people, like weliterally depended on other
people to cooperate.
You know, we shared our food,we shared responsibilities, we
shared child rearing.
We had so many things that wewere just so reliant on each
other for, and it was essentialfor our survival.
So we might not need to, wemight not ever need to leave our
(16:55):
house, we might not ever needto see another person in order
to survive, but our psychologyand our bodies don't know that
we still have that drive and westill have that need.
So when those needs are met,there is, you know, pathology,
depression or anxiety, or youknow any number of things like
that, or anxiety, or you knowany number of things like that.
(17:20):
So I feel like also, it's kindof it's sort of a unique
American thing where we're allrugged individuals and we can
all pull ourselves up by ourbootstraps and you can do it
alone.
We go it alone and it's theantithesis of how we lived for
millions of years in a groupwhere we all helped each other,
no one had to get go it alone.
You know no one had to raisetheir children all by themselves
(17:41):
.
You know no one had to go towork and be all by themselves.
You know work, work was notonly do we work less, but we
worked a lot more with a kind ofa playful spirit, like making
connections with co workers.
You know the men would go huntand the women would go gather.
You know they both would leave,leave the house, you know,
(18:01):
leave the village and someonewould be at the village.
And to help the kids, you know,do with the kid thing.
Or oftentimes, you know theolder kids took care of little
kids and there was multi-group,multi-age play.
But you know the women hadtheir friends.
They would sing, they wouldlaugh, they would talk.
It was a social outing.
Right, going to work was asocial outing.
Yes, it was fun.
(18:24):
It was fun.
You know people you know hadbest, had best friends.
I mean you even see this inlike other primate communities,
like chimpanzee communities.
There are, like chimpanzee,best friends.
They will like they will, true,they will they will try to
actually go and do the thingsthey need to do with their
friend, because it makes it somuch better and so much easier
(18:45):
to do the things that are hard.
If you have a little bit of playin there and your best friend
always keeps you in check, youknow if you're getting too
anxious, you know they'll belike what are you talking about?
Or you know, or if you're youknow you're getting too anxious,
they'll be like what are youtalking about?
Or if you're lagging a littlebit, like come on, I need you,
you have to help me.
There's so many things thathaving that social connection
(19:05):
with someone else just balancesyou out present moment because
you have somebody there with you.
If you're all by yourself,you're more likely to start
worrying about the future orlike thinking about oh God, why
did I say that to my boss?
You know you're like you'reliving in the past or you're
(19:26):
living in the future, and Ithink being in social groups,
being around other people, helpsanchor you into more of the
present moment, which issomething something we haven't
chatted about.
Jess (19:36):
You're right, I think, because you are.
You're having so much funinteracting with that person.
It's more about what'shappening right then and there
versus thinking about the past.
Well, not only the past, butlike I just need to work five
more hours because I was goingto prove to everyone that I get
to get to the next level andright yeah, so you're put like
it's.
It's okay just to sit there andlive in the moment with your,
(19:59):
your work best.
You probably have more fun.
Jenny Powers (20:01):
But it's not like you don't think about the future
or the past, but you bring alittle more levity to it.
It's not quite serious and ifyou, if you live more in the
present moment, you, your body'snot in constant fight or flight
, so you're actually moreequipped to deal with problems
that come up.
If you think about the futureand you're in a more centered
(20:21):
present state of mind, it'seasier for you to figure out how
to deal with something.
Jess (20:26):
Right.
Jenny Powers (20:27):
When you're not just so in the future, so
worried, anxious, anxious,anxious, fight or flight all the
time.
I think people are like, well,you can't just live in the
present moment, and it's true.
But if you can be more present,then the changes in your body
make it, so you can, you havemore resources to deal with with
(20:49):
, you know, future problems.
Jess (20:51):
Yeah, it gives you the ability then to, when you are in
that moment where you have tothink about the future or
reflect on the past.
you're coming at it with a muchmore grounded, relaxed, sound
state of mind.
Yeah, I love that.
There's many reasons why Ireally liked your book and
wanted to have you on ourpodcast, one of which was the
(21:12):
fact that social connectionscontinue to come up a lot in
your book, one of which was thefact that social connections
continued to come up a lot inyour book.
The other one, though, that I'dlove to chat a little bit about
, too, is the connection tonature.
So this season in our workbesties, we're really focusing
on wellness and tips and tricksfor our work.
Bestie.
Community out there, communityout there, and one of the
(21:34):
elements that you had in yourbook was all around like,
sometimes just being out innature in and of itself helps
you to kind of ground yourself.
Jenny Powers (21:45):
Do you mind talking a little bit about that?
Sure, well, I think it followsreally nicely with what we were
talking about.
because, about being present,because, there's nothing more
being in the present than beingin nature.
You know, you were looking atflowers and trees in the sky and
you have this sense of awe.
It's very grounding in thepresent moment and there's
(22:07):
actually an evolutionary reasonfor that.
The people who were attuned tonature were the ones who were
more successful.
They were the ones who tookcare of their bodies better,
because they could predict, like, oh, you know, there's a storm
coming, I can sense there's astorm coming, so they would
protect themselves.
Or, you know, if they were in asituation where there were
(22:28):
maybe predators around, you hadto be very in tuned to what was
going on around you.
Like are the birds singing?
Oh, the birds stop singing.
What?
What does that mean?
A branch has bent a certain way.
I know it's because the youknow, the animal that we're
hunting is went this way.
So we need to follow it so likeyou're so focused in on what's
around you and and it's it'sdifferent because it's you have
(22:51):
all of these senses, all of yoursenses are in play, but they're
not being overwhelmed Like ifyou are in the city street and
there's cars and there's noiseand there's people and you know
there's pollution, you know youhave to walk around things.
That's like a sensory overload,right.
But when you're out in natureyou kind of have this passive.
All of your senses are workingand they're like they just have
(23:12):
kind of gentle feedback.
You're not being assaulted,you're just able to kind of like
take it in at your own pace andand it's being in the present
moment and actually I'm sureyou've heard of forest bathing
there are all these new studiescoming out that show how being
in nature like reduces yourblood pressure, reduces the
cortisol in your body and all ofthat I think is wonderful for
(23:36):
your mental health and yourphysical health.
So then when you go back to youknow if you spend some time in
nature and then go back to work,you're more productive, you're
more creative.
They actually have studieswhere people who went into
nature instead of went for awalk in the city had like better
scores on like measures ofcreativity and like better
cognition, you know, but notonly.
(23:57):
But yeah, better mental health,be more content, less stressed,
but also better cognitivehealth.
Claude (24:04):
So what were you calling ?
Because I didn't know.
The term is forest.
Jenny Powers (24:09):
Forest bathing.
Forest bathing, yeah, and sothere's actually this Japanese
term that it means forestbathing, and it comes from Japan
, where they actually have thedoctors over there prescribed
you need to go be in nature.
Yeah, it's actually aprescription of like this is
(24:29):
what I think you need, and itmakes total sense that being in
nature would benefit our bodies,because nature is our natural
habitat.
We are the species that doesnot live in our natural habitat
and is actually well, I wasgoing to say, thriving.
I don't know about that.
It varies, right, yeah, itvaries, but if you take other
(24:50):
animals out of the naturalhabitat, they don't do very well
unless they're really supportedand get their needs.
But it's amazing that wehaven't gone extinct yet,
because we're not, you know,we're totally in a completely
artificial habitat, which noother species on the planet has
ever done.
Jess (25:10):
So and yet we still continue to live longer, which
is interesting.
Jenny Powers (25:16):
Well, maybe so, but what's our health span?
Yeah, it's not necessarilyhealthily, but yeah, I mean, I
actually think our, our lifespanis actually going down for the
first time, really okay, um, andour health span is not.
It is going way down.
You know you might live tillyou're 75 on average, but like
how many of those the last 10,15 years are you enjoying it?
(25:39):
Are you healthy?
Jess (25:40):
Yeah.
Interesting, so so yeah, so welive in a city so we don't have
a lot of just direct nature.
But I mean, I will say one ofmy things that I enjoy most and
I feel much more centered on thedays where I run in Central
Park, because I tend to run notjust on the main path but in the
(26:00):
like hiking trail area.
So you are like literally, it'slike trail running.
You're not in and around people,it's like just you with trees,
and I do feel much more calm andcentered on those days.
Are there other ideas of thingsthat those that do work in a
city can do throughout the day?
Jenny Powers (26:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think some people feellike, oh well, in order to
interact with nature, I have tolike make this big deal and like
go to Yellowstone.
Jess (26:27):
Yeah, go find a mountain to hike.
Jenny Powers (26:29):
You know little community gardens, or something
that I'm doing is just lookingat the clouds, watching the
sunset, like what's the qualityof the light?
You know what are the, you knowthe clouds pink, you know is
there a storm coming?
But also just looking at, likepaying attention to the tree
that's right there in busy citystreet.
You can like look at the leavesand be like it's starting to
(26:51):
change or I wonder what kind oftree this is.
Just having that, thatcuriosity and and man-made
nature, like flower gardens, orbeing able to like you know, I
heard there's, you know, peoplewho grow their own herbs in like
a high-rise apartment buildingin New York City and just the
the act of growing your ownherbs, you're getting your hands
(27:13):
in there and actually creatingsomething, letting something
grow.
All of those things areinteracting with nature.
Claude (27:20):
It's almost stepping back right from even our
everyday life and enjoying, likeyou said, enjoying the present
and enjoying the sunset, thesunrise in anywhere, the beauty
of nature.
I love what you say, that youdon't have to go on in a
mountain or you know a hill.
Jenny Powers (27:38):
You, you can find it, and a lot of time we don't
see that it's really reachingout for this beauty yeah, and in
order to do that we have toslow down, because we're we're
running from thing to thing,we're eating in our cars, we
don't have time to like sit andlook around when we're at a
stoplight, but it's somethingthat I've tried to learn how to
(28:01):
do and I've also really tried toteach my kids like we're riding
in the car oh, my gosh, look atthose clouds.
Oh, did you see that bird?
You know like just not beinginternal and like in our heads
and in our car going to our nextthing, but like what's going on
around us, because there's somany things that are nature that
you don't really think about,that you kind of take for
(28:21):
granted, and so becoming moreattuned to those things is
really helps your state of mind.
Claude (28:27):
And I mean I love it because you were, you know,
saying about teaching your kidsand I've always done that with
my son, I think he was sick of.
It was like oh my God, look atthe sky.
Oh my God, look at that cloudand white was about two weeks
ago and he's a teenager, so youknow.
Jenny Powers (28:44):
I guess I have one of those.
Claude (28:45):
Yeah, yeah.
But then and I was so happy andso proud because he came to see
me and then he left the roomand he looked outside like oh
wow, look at that cloud, look atthe sunset, and I was so happy
that he stopped and look at it.
You know, and appreciate.
I think that you're right.
(29:06):
It's also teaching you know thepeople to just step out, and
it's not only on video games andthings like that, because I do
believe that we were like yousay, we were gatherer, but all
this informatic and everythingwe feel very lonely.
You don't have this interactionas much as we used to.
Jenny Powers (29:29):
Totally, and I think that really goes back to
what we were talking about interms of being around other
people.
Like you had an influence onyour son because you were a
model for him of seeing thingsin a different way, maybe, so
that being together andinfluencing the people around
you to slow down, influencingthe people around you to start
(29:52):
opening their eyes and lookingat nature it comes from.
We're communicative, social,intelligent creatures, and that
is how we teach and we learn,and that is how things, that's
how we change, and so, like wehave to have, we have to be
around other people in order totransmit the things that we know
(30:13):
to be good for us, and thenthose people who we've taught
can teach others, and that's howit spreads.
Jess (30:20):
So it kind of goes back to yes, you can teach your kids,
which is great, and yes, but youalso can teach those in your
work environment to leverageyour work bestie.
And we have been talking abouthow, throughout the day, you
have your five minute break.
Another great example is justtaking whether it's the five
minutes or a couple, you knowhalf an hour of just going out
(30:41):
and appreciating something elseand actually saying it to people
, either going with them or, youknow, having those
conversations, Because it's thesmall changes you commented on
right.
Jenny Powers (30:52):
Yeah, and a lot of people think like, oh man, I
don't have time for that, I haveso much to do, when in reality
the studies have shown thattaking breaks actually improves
your performance.
You know, once you reach acertain point, like working more
isn't going to, you know youneed to take a break so you can
come back and then you'll bemore productive yeah, yeah.
Jess (31:12):
So, jenny, you hit on a couple of things that really
make sense for the working styleworld.
What else would you recommendor talk about?
That you think are kind of someeither small changes or big
changes that can help when youare a person who does work a
nine to five or very.
You know it's kind of sittingat your desk style job.
Jenny Powers (31:35):
Yeah, well, probably like kind of the four
main things.
If we look at hunter, gatherersand how they approached work,
there's kind of four things andwe kind of touched on one of
them, which is having more funand using like a playful spirit
at work.
Also, we also alluded toanother.
One is like we need to makesure we take our breaks and
enjoy our leisure time and weneed to start listening to our
(31:57):
bodies.
If we're sick, we have to takecare of ourselves.
If we're tired, we need to goto sleep.
We can't be like oh, I got tostay up for three more hours to
finish this.
It'll eventually happen.
I do the same thing, todd,literally texted me the other
day.
Jess (32:11):
like I know you're still up working, go to bed.
Jenny Powers (32:22):
Because our bodies , we don't necessarily have to
rely on our bodies and whetheror not we're alert to survive
anymore, but it does.
You know, it does help ourhealth.
Yeah, we like I like I wassaying we work so much longer
than hunter-gatherers maybe onlyhunter-gatherers, maybe only
worked 30 percent of the timewhen they were awake, maybe like
16 hours a week, you know,getting food and things like
that, and then they learned howto enjoy their themselves, right
(32:42):
.
So, and we talked about beingin the present moment they lived
and worked in the presentmoment and that really helps as
well.
Claude (32:50):
It was like, yes, they were working less because again
it's a different type of working, but it has again has to do
with nature, because again itwas a different habitat.
Right you had, they were moreor less working with the sunset
and sunrise.
No, sunrise and sunset.
(33:11):
Sunrise and sunset, yeah.
You know so it's really thatwas depending on nature.
Jenny Powers (33:18):
They were very attuned to the ebb and flow of
the day.
Mm-hmm.
And there was one other thing.
So that would help people inthe modern working world, and
this is another hard one to do.
So it's like slow down but alsowe don't need, we can live with
less and if we don't need asmuch.
(33:38):
So an entire hunter gatherergroup had fewer belongings than
one agriculturalist early on,like they just had the things
that they could carry on theirbacks because they were nomadic.
They moved all around, likethings were not important to
them.
It was their relationships.
It was how they interacted, itwas celebrations and dancing and
singing, and it was reallyabout relationships and
(34:01):
connections, not about stuff.
And so I think people getcaught up in I need to work more
so I can make more money, so Ican afford this stuff.
And then it gets to the pointwhere you know I have to work
more so I can make more money,so I can rent a storage facility
, so I can keep all my stuff inthe storage facility.
(34:22):
Um, because there's like houseshave gotten bigger and bigger
and the number of people wholive in them have gotten fewer
and fewer, and yet we still havegarages full of stuff and we
still have storage facilitiesfull of and we don't.
It's a.
Jess (34:38):
It's a cultural shift that has to happen, but we could
live with less and if we hadless, we could work less I say
that as a person who I'm a avidclothes shoppers always battle
with that too, where I'm like Idon, I don't need this.
I hear you, though, cause Ithink I do feel so much better
(34:58):
when I go and do like a closetcleansing and I get all the
stuff out of there and I can seeeverything that I have, like
you do feel, I don't know ifit's psychological or what, but
I do feel better.
So I kind of understand whatyou mean, and it probably does
go back to the hunting gatheringdays, when you would, if I had
to run, I wouldn't be able tograb any of this stuff.
So what does it really matter?
Jenny Powers (35:18):
You got to move out fast.
You just got to.
You got to, you know, grab yourkids and grab the stuff you can
carry and go, and that actuallyprovided people a lot of
freedom.
You know, if once, once, youwere in a house and you had all
this stuff and it was a badsituation, you didn't feel like
you could leave right, whereasif you just needed all the
(35:39):
things on your back and youcould just get out of a bad
situation, you could move toanother group.
You know there wasn't any hardand fast rules about having to
stay.
You know where you are, youknow, yeah, you, there's the all
these groups kind ofintermingled and came together,
went apart.
You could just go somewhereelse and find a better situation
for yourself.
You don't feel that human being, though.
(36:00):
They need that belonging, thatsense of belonging yeah, yeah,
so you have to find it somewhereelse don't, yeah, force it go
find that yeah, don't, don't gooff and be by yourself, because
being by yourself is like theworst hunter-gatherer society.
Being alone is like a deathsentence, right?
(36:21):
So if you're not getting whatyou need in this particular
group, you go find another group.
You take it, you know yourstuff off.
Jess (36:28):
You have the freedom to move to another group and find
what you need there so some ofour listeners are a little
younger and they probably arepart of those that are very much
attached to the social mediaaspect.
And then we know that certainelements like Instagram is not
exactly always real or at all.
(36:51):
What would be kind of youradvice for for, like the younger
generation, if they're attunedto that Like, how do you help
them adjust back to to?
Jenny Powers (37:00):
your point.
This is not what our bodies arereally meant for, because, on
one hand, we can find the peoplewho think like you know, we can
find our people, we can findthe people who find our tribe,
and we might not necessarilylive in the same state, right,
(37:25):
or the same country even, butthe fact that we can find each
other and interact, I thinkthat's great.
Using social media for that, asopposed to using social media
to attack somebody or, you know,compare ourselves with somebody
or, you know, put something outthere so we get likes, so we
can feed our self esteem.
You know those.
Those are not the good ways touse social media.
But if you're using socialmedia to connect with people and
and like, have friendships andstuff like that, I think that's
(37:47):
a wonderful use of social media.
However, there are limits tosocial media and we were talking
about this, I think, before westarted recording.
You know there are actualphysiological things that happen
when you're in the same roomwith somebody.
That's different than being ona screen.
I mean, you can get some of itfrom being on a screen or be.
Just being in contact withpeople is so important, but
being in a physical, being inphysical contact with somebody
(38:10):
has so many other benefits.
You know, like we were talkingabout.
You know, hugging somebody, youget oxytocin release, which is
that belonging, feel goodchemical.
You know, when you're sittingacross from somebody you start
like mirroring their oh.
You know you start mirroringtheir, their facial.
You know their body languageand their facial expressions.
Those are mirror mirroringneurons and that makes you kind
(38:33):
of feel like you're on the samewavelength with that person.
And I haven't seen that happenas much on, you know, on social
media or face to you know, on azoom call.
There's not that like.
You know, you can still getinto that, you know the giggles
and you can still kind of feelthis energy, but it's not quite
the same as being in person inthe same same room.
Claude (38:52):
Yeah, and, and sometimes I have to say also when,
because text also is huge but,again.
It's so easy to misunderstand atext, right that oh, meanwhile,
when you're talking.
Jess (39:06):
It's very easy, you know you understand, you ask me and
text you.
You know it depends on readyour own connotation exactly,
depending on which one.
Claude (39:16):
You know what mood you're in.
Like.
There's this commercial.
That's no, that's mean.
So it's actually very funnythat you have it's between two
people.
That one, you know, reads thewrong way, yeah, when the other
one, that is sending is reallykey and peel have done a skit on
it.
Jess (39:33):
It's hysterical where the one's like like, do you still
want to go out tonight?
And he's just like he's sendingis really he and Peele have
done a skit on it.
It's hysterical.
It's really good Like, do youstill want to go out tonight?
He's like do you still want togo out tonight?
And he's like asking, like in anice way, and he's like what do
you mean?
Do you want to go out tonight?
And his response is like Idon't know, do you Like
aggressive, you know?
Claude (39:55):
It was he's like all light and positive.
But I think too it reallydepends.
And I think also at the sametime, technology did help us
during COVID to stay inconnection.
It was the only type ofconnection you could have, the
only time you could have.
But then again afterwards Iknow, for example, with my
friends work bestie or whatever,with my friends work bestie or
whatever, once we found eachother again in real life you
(40:23):
know it was again that need oftouch that was so important.
Jess (40:27):
Yeah, Well, we know I did want to ask you, jenny, because
we did reference this a littlebit before we started recording.
I saw that your book which Ihighly recommend to those that
are listening to get a copy ofit and read it on the origin of
being, but I saw that this isbook one of three, right?
(40:50):
Do you care to talk a littlebit about, maybe, what's the
book number two and when thatmight be?
Jenny Powers (40:56):
Sure, sure, like as I was talking about when I
met Luke and he was telling meabout all these different things
where we're not living inalignment.
The first book was really justabout sleep, nutrition, work and
rest in nature, but there aresix other areas of you know, of
our evolutionary behaviors thatwe think are really important
too and they kind of move up inin like complexity, I guess.
(41:20):
So these are our basic needs.
Book one is our basic needs andthen book two focuses a lot on
what we were talking about today, like our social groups, our
social connections, why, why weevolved this way, why it's
important, and child rearing.
You know, because I'm sure wecould have tons of podcasts
about parenting, about the sexes, like you know, have we always
(41:44):
been in a male dominated society?
Let's see if we have anevolutionary record right.
You know, like we were talkingabout earlier, women used to
always were women worked awayfrom the home all the time.
You know what I mean.
So there's so much rich stuffthere to talk about and to think
about.
So that's book two, and thenbook three kind of gets into
(42:04):
more complex things like thearts.
You know, how does storytellingand singing and dancing, how
does that affect us and how doesthat affect how we bond with
other people?
Rituals how important ritualsare, rites of passage are, and
then we talk about religion andspirituality.
So these are like really highlevel human stuff, you know.
(42:25):
And so that that's in bookthree, and so we're hoping to at
the end of this year to releasebook two and then the end of
next year really release bookthree.
Jess (42:33):
So it'll be our little trilogy two and then the end of
next year really release bookthree.
So it'll be our little trilogytrilogy.
I feel like all three of thesebooks are so on brand for the
work besties and cool kind ofexplain some of the the why
behind the importance of havinga work bestie.
So we we appreciate you beingon and we're going to be looking
forward to reading book two andthree and we may tap you again
(42:53):
if you're interested yeah, Ireally enjoyed talking to you.
Jenny Powers (42:58):
It's been a really fun conversation and I, like I
said, I love the.
I would be so much fun to likehave a podcast with my best
friend and my work bestie.
Yeah, I mean, I just love.
I love the concept and theenergy that you guys play off of
each other and bring um.
It's been a really fun, reallyfun talking with you.
Jess (43:17):
Well, the good news is that there's so many other work
besties out there that are likethis that you want to continue
to start that movement and, justlike you said, one small change
at a time, one little change ata time, all it takes one small
change and you take a step backand you're like okay, I mastered
that.
Jenny Powers (43:41):
Let's do the next step, Yep, Having your work
bestie at your side or yourbestie you know they don't have
to be your work bestie, but justyour bestie Having somebody at
your side while you're doingthose things makes those things
easier to do and they stick andthey last longer and you support
each other.
Jess (43:48):
Even the hard things.
Yeah, it's make it or break it.
The nutrition, like payingattention to not having so much
sugar, having that one exercisea day or whatever it definitely
helps.
Claude (43:59):
It's like you have, you know, a gym buddy and you know
all those different that helpyou to be accountable.
Yeah exactly Because it's veryhard alone and having a work
bestie that became a bestie orwork bestie that makes a big
difference.
Jenny Powers (44:15):
Totally Well.
Thank you, jenny.
The work bestie that became abestie or work best, that makes
a big difference.
Totally it's not.
If it's not what you do, it'swho you spend your time with oh,
yeah, oh definitely.
Jess (44:22):
That's an amazing tagline you should totally make.
Jenny Powers (44:29):
Make that your little work.
Besties who podcast, it's notwhat you do, it's who you're
with yeah, just like that,you're gonna see it change
steady, you can have that.
You can have that one gosh,this has been amazing.
Jess (44:47):
Thank you so much.
Um, I just so appreciate youbeing willing to come on our our
humble podcast because I feel,as we mentioned, we heard you on
other podcasts and you are justsuch a wealth of knowledge and
so interesting and I love thatyou could kind of help explain
it in art.
So we appreciate that oh,you're welcome.
Jenny Powers (45:05):
Thank, thank you very much.
Like I said, it was sowonderful that you reached out
and were interested.
I'm like this sounds like agreat, a great match.
Um, yeah'm looking.
I'll keep in touch with you all.
Jess (45:16):
Definitely, I would love that so for all the work besties
out there.
We hope you enjoyed this and wehope you take away from this to
do just one small change, evenif it is just reaching out and
finding a new bestie, or it'sthinking about your nutrition,
yeah, doing with your bestiegoing out in nature, just
appreciating things, taking thatstep to recharge.
(45:38):
Um, and don't forget to checkout jenny's book on the origin
of being and her upcoming bookseries, which we're all excited
about, and make sure to like andsubscribe and check out jenny's
socials.
That we will keep in our notes.
So with that, thank you all.
Thank you all, bye.
Remember, whether you'reswapping snacks in the break
(46:00):
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
that perfectly timed meme,having a work bestie is like
having your own personal hypesquad.
Claude (46:10):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
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