April 21, 2025 • 41 mins
You, Me, We: Why Work Besties Are a Career Superpower (with Morag Barrett)
Ready to upgrade your 9–5 relationships from “cordial coworkers” to ride-or-die allies? In this energizing episode, Jess & Claude sit down with leadership expert and author Morag Barrett to chat about why having work besties isn’t just nice—it’s necessary.
Drawing from her brilliant book You, Me, We, Why we all NEED a Friend at Work; Morag shares actionable tips on how to build meaningful connections at work, navigate tricky power dynamics, and bring emotional awareness into every meeting (without the eye rolls). From small talk that actually matters to shifting from a “me” to a “we” mindset, this episode is packed with wisdom, laughs, and a whole lot of heart.
Take a listen if you’re ready to: 💼 Build real friendships at work
🤝 Shift into a culture of allyship
📣 Speak up with confidence in any room
✨ Make your workplace feel more you
Because when you’ve got the right people beside you, work just works better.
Follow or Connect With Morag Barrett here
Website-https://skyeteam.com/
LinkedIn-https://www.linkedin.com/in/moragbarrett/
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Work Besties! Theme Song Written by Ralph Lentini @therallyband
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jess (00:00):
Hello, my work besties.
What if the secret to careersuccesses isn't just what you
know, but who you know and howyou connect with them?
Today's guest, Marag, is hereto prove that workplace
relationships are more than justa nice to have.
We please recommend you stay tothe very end so that you can
(00:20):
hear some of the tips and tricksand some of the mistakes that
people make when trying to buildwork friendships.
Claude (00:26):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:35):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties Hello, we are soexcited to have you on board.
Morag (00:56):
Marag, why don't you give a background on yourself and
how you?
My goodness?
Well, I saw the name of thepodcast.
I was thinking that is theplace for me and I'm only sorry
that my work besties, eric andRuby, had another commitment and
couldn't be here to party onwith us all, because that would
have been so much fun.
But what really caught my eyewas, with the work besties theme
is here you see, showcased.
(01:16):
My latest book with my workbesties, eric and Ruby, is
called you, me, we, why we AllNeed a Friend at Work and how to
Show Up as One.
So I think this is a match madein heaven.
So you asked for a little bitabout me.
So here you go.
The accent is not from Colorado,where I'm currently based.
I'm originally from England.
(01:37):
I know, shocking, I do say I'mfrom Texas, but then people say,
oh y'all, no, I can't do it.
I've lived here in Colorado for20 years and my sons, who were
seven and four when we arrived,are now all six foot tall and
fully grown.
And when I am not helping totake the junior high out of the
workplace and bring humanity andfriendships back in, you will
(02:01):
find me ballroom dancing orplaying the bassoon for the
local symphony orchestra.
Not at the same time, becausethat would be awkward.
So there you go.
If that doesn't make me aninternational woman of mystery,
I don't know what will all ofthem.
So I was thinking about goingto the grizzly rose this week,
(02:22):
which is the cowboy country balldance this week, but I have
just off stage here, a wardrobe,a closet full of dresses with
sequins and parcels and sparkles.
Jess (02:36):
I think we have pictures of you in that.
I feel like that needs to be.
Morag (02:41):
I will send you some.
I have one that I'm spinning.
It makes me look like anold-fashioned car wash.
You know, with the big brushesdon't judge.
Yeah, there you go.
I think we've bonded.
I think we can class ourselvesas friends at work now yes, I
mean that's.
Jess (02:57):
That's stuff that you don't share with just anybody
for sure absolutely that's themistake we make.
Morag (03:03):
The first mistake is and I made it earlier in my career
is we've got to be all buttonedup, stiff, upper lip, british
professional at all times.
But the reality is, when weshare these nuggets, the
ballroom dancing, the classicalmusic, the three six-foot suns,
etc.
Those are moments of connectionthat move us from being
(03:25):
strangers with nothing in commonto acquaintances and work
colleagues with something orsomeone in common.
Claude (03:34):
Definitely.
And how did you come aboutwriting this book on work
friendship?
Morag (03:39):
Well, it comes out of my first book.
My first book is calledCultivate the Power of Winning
Relationships and the secondedition of that is about to come
out and it's all been updated,post-pandemic.
But even with that bookCultivate the Power of Winning
Relationships it introduces therelationship ecosystem and this
idea of being allies and havingallies aka friends at work and
(04:06):
having allies aka friends atwork.
And what we found with thethousands of leaders that we're
working with around the world.
They were asking this is great.
It's changed my mindset abouthow I collaborate with others in
the workplace.
But how do I show up as an ally, what does that mean, without
just becoming a yes person and adoormat?
And so Eric Ruby and I wentback to the beginning.
We interviewed hundreds ofleaders.
(04:27):
We have an ally mindset profilewhere more than a thousand
leaders from around the worldhave now provided their input,
and that is what created you, me, we, and here we're talking
about how do you show up as afriend for others and how do you
show up at work as a friend foryourself, so that your own
(04:49):
values, your own needs, your ownhopes, dreams, aspirations are
getting as much care andattention as you're lavishing on
your colleagues and thebusiness goals that you might be
asked to deliver together.
That's fascinating.
Jess (05:04):
You've hit on a couple of topics that we tend to love to
dabble in.
You have more of the stats andthe facts behind it, which is my
forte, so I'm so excited tohear about some of that and the
fact that you interviewed peopleand talked to really get to the
root of it.
One of the things you bring upis ally method.
How do you get leadership toshift from that me first to a me
(05:29):
first mindset and approach?
Morag (05:51):
Can I beat the exam board ?
Can I graduate in the top Xpercent of my class Me, me and
yet, when we arrive in theworkplace, this is the biggest
team sport that many of us getto participate in, because my
success is dependent on others.
Whether I'm a solopreneur,whether I'm working in a small
(06:14):
startup organization, or whetherI'm working in a 10,000
multi-country company, mysuccess depends on others.
We can't hype form alone, andso that's the first mindset
shift that we have to make.
I have to care as much aboutyou and your success as you do
about my own.
(06:35):
This podcast conversation is asmall microcosm of that, because
you two can be the fabulisthosts, but if I sit here quietly
and looking miserable, thenit's not going to be a very
scintillating conversation orvery interesting for your
audience.
And vice versa.
It doesn't matter how manystats I have, but if I can't
(06:57):
bring it alive and show andshare the stories of how it's
transformed leader reputationsor organizational cultures and
leave your audience with somepragmatic first steps, none of
us are going to be bettertogether, and that's our whole
mantra.
How can we be better together?
Jess (07:16):
So, knowing that what would be one simple thing that
leadership can do today to getthem from that me to we and help
foster that encouragement ofthe environment, Well, firstly,
is to start thinking about it asto how do you feel?
Morag (07:36):
So in you, me, we, we have a three step process Look
up, show up, step up, Look up ishow do I feel?
Am I having fun at work?
I'm about to go into thismeeting with Jess and Claude.
Am I looking forward to it oram I going?
Oh, do you remember last monthwhen they were mean to me at
(07:58):
lunchtime or whatever?
Claude (08:01):
We all went to those meetings.
Morag (08:03):
And so we're all worried about those meetings.
Yes, we've all been to thosemeetings where we're worried
about who's going to show up andwe're thinking about well, I'm
going to say the first smartthing first and go on the
offensive.
Or, if Jess and Claude do this,I'm going to do that.
We're on the defensive, butwe're not thinking about the
business decision at hand.
So the first thing is what am Ifeeling?
Am I having fun?
(08:23):
Am I feeling nervous?
Am I feeling tired?
Am I anxious or stressed?
Because that energy impacts howwe show up.
And that brings me to thesecond point how do I want us to
feel at the end of this meeting, this decision, this
conversation?
Because then that moves to thechoice, the intentionality of
(08:43):
how do I need to show up.
Do I need to bring the quiet,thoughtful reflective more out,
which is what I use in myexecutive coaching, or do I need
to bring the energized,enthusiastic, let's bounce ideas
off each other, which isprobably what you need for an
effective podcast conversation.
(09:04):
So look up, show up, step up isall about how do I feel, how do
I want others to feel, and thenmaking a choice of what is it
that I need to do or say or howdo I need to be in order to
ensure a more successful outcome?
Claude (09:21):
So I have a question on this, because we all have
meetings where we get angry justgoing into the meeting because
we know how it's going to become, how it's going to end up, and
there are so many memes whereyou have, oh, I'm so angry
before even going to thismeeting.
So we know how we are showingup.
(09:43):
How can we change that mindset?
Morag (09:47):
So awareness is the first bit and congratulations on
knowing.
But there is that I think it'sa misattributed quote to
Einstein that the definition ofinsanity is doing the same thing
over and over and expecting itto be different.
And so if we know we're goingin frustrated, you can bet your
colleagues are thinking, oh God,warwick's going to be
(10:09):
frustrated again, and so they'recoming defensive.
And then we're not having thereal conversations, we're not
getting to the root cause, andso we're just fueling each other
in this downward spiral.
The best leaders I've workedwith, I've seen them start with
a simple pulse check.
It might be give me one word todescribe how you're feeling as
(10:32):
we come into this conversation.
And it might be, you know,enthusiastic, curious,
overwhelmed, confused.
And the idea is not then topoke the finger and blame and
say, well, tell me more aboutthat.
Now you've got a pulse tounderstand.
Okay, so how do we given that,how do we make this the best use
of our time we can To anincluding?
(10:53):
Do we need to reschedule tillnext week?
And as leaders, the goal is notto make everybody happy.
We're not responsible for otherpeople's happiness.
Oh, you get thumbs up.
Nor are we trying tonecessarily get to everybody
saying, yes, it's the differencebetween buy-in and bought-in.
We want everybody to be able toshare what's on their mind,
(11:13):
what they're excited for, whatthey're worried for, what might
get in the way of success, forthem to feel that those concerns
are heard and considered andthen, whatever the decision is,
the bought in is that we can beone voice to the rest of the
organization Says yes, we lookedat all of the different choices
(11:33):
.
We realize this isn't perfectand here's what we're doing and
why.
Versus going out and continuingto do what I call BMW bitch,
moan and whine, I say thatComplainers, oh gosh, you won't
believe what Jess has asked usto do.
It'll never work.
Well, that undermines the team,it undermines confidence in the
(11:54):
leadership team and it erodesour relationship.
So what do you do if you'reconsistently feeling frustrated?
If it's with a person, then youneed to have a conversation
with that person.
Hey Claude, it feels like we'vebeen butting heads the last
three times we got together.
Does it feel the same for you?
What can we do to move pastthis and get on with what we
(12:15):
need to be able to do together?
Claude (12:17):
It comes back to again how I'm like working on a
relationship.
You know any other relationship.
It's a work relationship, butit's still a relationship.
It is.
Jess (12:28):
And in some of these instances, though, there's a
difference in, say, the levelright.
So in the particular meetingslet's say we're going into,
maybe claude and I are the samelevel and we aren't the ones
that have the strife, it's thebosses.
So we're seeing them have it.
What would be some things asthe individual witnessing it,
that we could help coach let'sassume in this scenario, I am
(12:52):
your boss.
Morag (12:52):
It's a bit like now I'm picturing of star wars I'm your
father.
Well, I'm not.
I'm the boss.
And you two are like mygoodness, morag, she's not
listening when you, if you havean ally, you have each other's
back.
Here's an opportunity for youtwo to get together to say, okay
, is it just me?
(13:13):
You feel like Morag's talkingat cross purposes.
And then how do we, how do oneof you have that conversation
with me as your boss?
Now, it's scary, and I'm notsuggesting that everybody should
just pitch in and have thattough conversation from the
get-go.
There's two things I want youto take away from that message
(13:35):
and call to action.
One is yes, it could be careerlimiting for you to come to me
as your boss and give me badfeedback, so you need to find a
way to do it in a way that youfeel safe, that you feel like
you're likely to be heard.
But it's also career limitingfor me as the boss if I'm only
getting the nods of oh no,everything's lovely, morag, when
(13:58):
in fact it's not so.
It's in both our interests.
It's the we first for us tofind a way to have that
conversation, and the going toyour ally, going to your friend
at work and saying, hey, help methink this through, help me
role play it.
There's a subtle differencebetween that being gossip and
being a meaningful allyconversation.
(14:21):
The former is all about dramaGosh Maura, can you believe she
did that again?
All about drama Gosh Morag, canyou believe she did that again?
And that puts them center stageand usually portrays that
person as the villain, whereaswhen you're having an ally
conversation, you can still say,goodness, I can't believe Morag
asked us to do it.
(14:42):
Now you're on the stage with meand it's all about and how do
we get past this?
How do we help her to see theother perspectives?
And this is the power, and I'veseen it happen.
It has truly, truly transformedleader reputations from at best
being a brilliant jerk, atworst a jerk, to somebody who is
(15:04):
inspiring and engaged and wewant to work with and it comes
out one conversation and onerelationship at a time.
Jess (15:10):
That's a really big, bold message that I hope our work
besties take across, because werely so much on hearing and
feeling the culture from yourleadership, but it's kind of a
cyclical nature.
You need the managers underthem to also have a role and
responsibility too and to knowthat they should so feel
(15:32):
empowered.
Morag (15:33):
So I think you nailed it there.
It's easy to say, well, theyneed to go first, they need to
fix it.
But we are all, no matterwhether we are the newest
entry-level emerging leaderthat's just joined the
organization or the CEO.
We're all the they to somebody.
And whilst we might not be ableto change the organizational
(15:56):
culture overnight or fix thatteam that sits in the UK that
keeps driving you nuts, what Ican do is fix the relationship,
and the next meeting I'm in Ican choose, if I'm a people
manager, to make a little oasisof calm and a team of allies
(16:16):
around my table, and then I'llworry about how we as a team
build a relationship with theteams up and downstream of us.
So I think there's always morethat we can do at an individual
and a team level that thenstarts to affect and pick up
momentum at an organizationallywide level.
Jess (16:35):
I love your Oasis example because it's like the ripple of
a puddle right.
You are an individual with amaybe small thing that, but then
it can really expand.
I mean, it happens in thenegative so often, but you can
do it in the positive.
Claude (16:51):
You can, yes, and I love also the word ally, right, I
think it's a very strong wordwhere it's again that
relationship, that understandingeach other, hearing each other.
Now you said also at thebeginning that you interviewed a
lot of leaders and were theyall very open that how important
(17:14):
it is to have allies, to havework bases, because sometimes we
do hear that never be friendswith your co-workers.
So I just want to understandwhat was their perspective.
Morag (17:26):
It went for every level of heck.
No, it's not personal, it'sjust business.
Got no time for this.
Through to those who were rolemodeling it.
And, if I go with stereotypes,we interviewed leaders in oil
and gas, gold mining literallylife and death.
Environments where, if I don'thave your back, if we're not
(17:49):
taking and following the safetyprecautions, literally we can
lose life and limb.
Caring, compassionate, allabout helping, making others
(18:12):
better, but maybe shied awayfrom the tough feedback and
holding each other accountablefor the standards and the new
ways of working that may beexpected.
And we interviewed leaders fromacross 20 countries and on six
continents.
Now, we haven't interviewedeverybody.
Here's the thing, the language.
Whether you choose to call themcolleagues, workmates, friends,
(18:33):
allies, I don't care.
All I want to do is, for thenext six weeks that we're
working together, for the threeyears we're going to be on this
team, let's have a little fun,let's make life and work a
little lighter and let's createan environment where we can all
show up and do our best worktogether.
(18:56):
That's the power of having andbeing an ally or a friend or a
bestie.
Jess (19:03):
So there's a way to do that authentically, but there's
also a way to do itinauthentically right.
So if I was, let's say, amanager who is just not open,
not a very inviting person, andI take this course or training
with you or learn from even justreading your book, the next day
I show up like okay, now I wantto talk about how we have fun.
(19:27):
The next day, I show up likeokay, now I want to talk about
how we have fun.
Morag (19:36):
How would you help somebody that goes from one
persona to this without it beinginauthentic?
So I have yet to meet anybodywho gets up in the morning and
thinks, oh, I want to be seen asa brilliant jerk today or as an
adversary, which is one of theother relationships dynamics I
talk about in the book.
We get it because either ourstyles are misaligned, maybe our
goals are in competition thisisn't about personality
(19:58):
transplants.
Nobody needs to do a 180 on whothey are but I guess all of us
need to round out the edges.
So here's an easy way Buyeverybody a copy of my book you,
me, we and read it.
Maybe say, hey, I was listeningto the podcast Worst Work
Besties and I realized that Ican occasionally come across as
(20:22):
a little directive, telling atthat point you don't need to
apologize for being who you are.
What do you need to promise tobe different?
Because, let's face it, I'm notgoing to change.
You can say, hey, what's oneone tip, what's one thing I
could do to just soften that abit, or to show up a little
different, to listen more than Italk, and then just say thank
(20:45):
you.
So listen and take what worksfor you, because I guarantee,
when we are listening, when weare leaning in, when we can
still say no, but do it in a wayor disagree in a way that
strengthens the relationship anddoesn't damage it, the magic
happens.
(21:05):
Because then I stop filtering, Istop anticipating.
Well, there's no point sayingI'm not even going to bother
trying because Jess will say no,how do I know?
Because you might have said yes, but I never even asked.
I didn't take the informed risk, I didn't innovate because I
was worried about getting intotrouble.
So every time we step away fromthe relationship, our ability
(21:27):
to deliver the business resultsof what we do and how we
organize gets eroded.
This is the secret sauce tosuccess.
No matter what industry you'rein, what level of career you're
in, it is all about who you workwith and who you work for.
Claude (21:43):
That's very well said.
So, being a little bit personalnow, so we know you have worked
best team right, eric and ruby.
So how did you meet and how didyou feel that connection, that
suddenly it was like that's it,they are my best or they are my
ally it's interesting when I askleaders, when I think about
(22:06):
what it takes to become an ally.
Morag (22:08):
There are people that you meet in life where you just
connect and it's like we arelost deep souls, even though we
may never have met in person.
In three dimensions, we've onlymet through Zoom or we've only
met for the first time, andthose are magical.
Now, with Ruby, she will sharethat.
(22:28):
It took several months for usto get to this.
I knew from the get-go that Iam abundance and generosity.
I want you to be successful.
And she would email or shewould Slack me and she goes can
I do this?
And what?
Do you agree?
And I would go, yes, becauseRuby, you're fabulous.
She is the most amazingexecutive coach.
I adore her.
But I didn't tell her that.
(22:50):
And there came a point when shewent to Eric and she goes I'm
writing these emails Morag, howwas your weekend?
And I want to do this and Ithink it'll help us with that.
And she was getting the yesback or the one line of do it.
And she was reading into that.
Am I in trouble?
Does Morag not like me?
And so my flex is I'll writethe email that says, yeah, go do
(23:11):
it.
And then I'll go back and sayand so how was your weekend?
And hugs and kisses.
And that's just how I have toadapt.
I have on my calendar a weeklyreminder to reach out to, and
each week it's a different listof five or 10 folks, not because
I'm cheating, but because Icare so much I don't want to
(23:35):
forget.
And so how do we do it?
One conversation at a time, byasking a new team member.
So what is it you expect of meas your boss, or what do you
expect of me as your peer?
Here's what you can expect fromme.
These are my hot buttons.
This is what success looks like.
These are my hot buttons.
This is what success looks like, For example, when we're going
on a client meeting.
When I say we arrive early forMorag, that means 15 minutes, it
(23:57):
does not mean five minutesbefore.
If we don't actually make theimplicit explicit, how would
anybody know?
You'll learn over time, alongthe way, we're going to butt
heads and I'm going to getfrustrated because you're
arriving seven minutes beforeinstead of 15, all because we
didn't take the time to just sitback and say tell me your
journey, what excites you, whatfrustrates you?
(24:20):
And here let me share mine.
And now, how can your story you, how does my story me, and how
do we put that together to makesomething unique that only we
can do together?
Jess (24:33):
So, margu, with this new kind of work dynamic where so
much of it is hybrid or fullyremote, are there different
tactics or things you wouldrecommend to help, kind of?
Morag (24:44):
break down?
Yes, because when we went outfor lunch or let's grab a drink
(25:08):
after work, or even walking fromone meeting room to another,
when I saw you Before thepandemic, we at SkyTeam all of
our leadership developmentprograms, our team coaching, was
in person.
I was of the opinion if youwant to be a better human, you
have to do it in a room withother humans.
Well, the pandemic took thataway from all of us, and so one
of the choices I made was tolean into these, was to lean
(25:29):
into these two-dimensionalconversations, and some of my
newest, deepest friendships,professional relationships, have
been made through the camera.
Because we chose to make thetime for the small talk before
we got down to the big work.
We chose to share a little bitmore about what's happening.
(25:51):
We chose to let you into myoffice and you can assume I have
a thing for Jamie.
He does have a thing for me too, he just doesn't know it.
Yeah, for those who arelistening and can't see, I have
a display holding a life-sizemodel of Jamie from Outlander,
and if you're still not sure,then you either have to call me
or get the books are watching.
(26:14):
You need to go watch it.
Just to stare at that the wholetime you do.
You can see from this there's aunicorn picture up there,
that's an aspiring tattoo I'mthinking of getting.
These are the things where youstart to say, oh, I wonder what
that's all about and ask more,like I'd love to know.
I remember making.
Behind Jess are some paperrings.
(26:36):
I remember making those atelementary school when I was a
child, especially in theholidays, and a bit of paper
we're celebrating for Lunar NewYear.
So even then, that now tells methat there's an Asian influence
here.
If it's Lunar New Year, there'ssomething that's driving that
and there's a topic potentiallyfor conversation later on.
(26:58):
And so, whether we're meetingcan actually shake hands and
press the flesh in anappropriate HR way, or whether
we are just meeting through thecamera, our choice is to share
more slow down, because genuineconnection happens not just in
the work that we do together.
It happens in the spacesbetween the work that we do
(27:20):
together.
Jess (27:20):
It's come up a number of times, taking the time, whether
it's in the beginning of ameeting or at the end, to just
connect and have thoseconversations about how you're
doing or something that you hadtalked about beforeude, and I
chat about like I'm the worst atthat.
We get together and I'm rightinto the business of like did
you get this, this and this?
Morag (27:40):
you're like good morning so we start all our sky team
meetings with a section calledwe call Ripples and Joys, and we
took that from an organizationcalled City Year and we've been
doing it now for 10 years andwhen we started I thought, oh
God, this is hokey Like.
Come on down to business.
Ripples and Joys are thingswe've done that have moved a
(28:05):
client forward or a projectforward or a new document we've
created.
You know it can be thetransactional stuff and then the
joys is anything, personally orprofessionally, that's brought
us joy and made us happy.
And it is powerful because, asa leader, when you take a few
minutes to get your team andshare, you learn what motivates
people without having to ask.
(28:25):
You're learning about thechallenges that they may be
navigating in their whole lives,that may be impacting how
they're showing up in their worklives.
So to your point, small talk,icebreakers, it may not come
naturally.
So what can we do as leaders?
Start putting it on the agenda,making it safe, role modeling
it, being curious and over timeit will create a life of its own
(28:49):
and transform it.
I'll give you an example.
We had a leader a defensecontractor, I believe, but think
about it Very secret work thatthey can't tell us about, with
everybody having to swipethrough into secret parts of the
office.
And, needless to say, when wearrived, the culture was very
politics, silos, turf, wars.
Nobody really communicated.
(29:10):
And the CEO turned to eric andsaid so are you saying that I've
got to start every meeting withfive minutes of small talk?
And eric went, yes.
So this leader and it's in thebooks literally added the gender
item that says marks fiveminutes of small talk, and it
was very structured, a bit likemy meeting reminder.
Well, it took on a life of itsown, such that everybody other
(29:34):
leaders started putting Mark'sfive minutes of small talk on
theirs.
And that culture yes, theystill work in their silos
because they have to, but youhear laughter, there's fun,
there is a sense of connectionin a team and an organization
that was disconnected beforehandand all it took was Mark's five
minutes of small talk.
Claude (29:55):
It's so funny because you would think that putting in
an agenda is not authentic,right, because it's like it's
something I have to do.
It's not something that I wantto do, but at the end it became
life on its own and reallyeverybody embraced it bring more
(30:15):
of that humanness to all ourconversations.
Morag (30:19):
So if you go to our website skyteamcom that's
s-k-y-e because of the isle ofsky off the west coast of
scotland, because I'm a mcleodand that's where the clan mcleod
from comes from so more nuggetsyou go to our website.
We rebranded the website twoyears ago.
We have unicorns all over theplace.
(30:39):
It was a throwaway comment thatI made 10 years ago that took
on a life of its own.
I have so many unicorn themedthings at home that clients have
sent me Unicorn socks, unicorntrotskies it doesn't matter,
it's there and we decided tojust own it.
Now there are still going to beand this goes back to your
earlier question, claude, aboutthe people who don't perceive
(31:00):
the need for friendships at workthe idea of unicorns for those
folks are also likely to be.
Well, that's just ridiculous.
That's not professional.
You know what?
That's fine.
Then that means we're not theright partner for you.
But for those who lean in, Idecided let's bring some humor
to our styling and let's put itfront and center.
(31:21):
And it has been magical,literally magical.
And I was going to be anengineer.
I spent 15 years in finance.
I am that logical businessfirst thinker.
But I am having so much morefun even more fun now that we're
having a little bit more of thequirky you know, everyday
conversations in our lives.
(31:42):
You're making me so happy.
Jess (31:44):
One of the things I was thinking is like so we started
this podcast because therelationship that Claude and I
have was having that rippleeffect in our organization, and
I think it was a throwawaycomment that someone said to us
like oh, maybe you guys shouldhave a podcast to spread this to
everyone else.
And, typical me, I'd likechecklist of staff.
I quickly ran and was like let'sgo do it yeah we are doing it
(32:09):
and I'm like, yeah, claude's,like, oh my, I thought it was
just a joke, I don't know we'removing forward with that, but
the the thing that we've lovedso much about it is how happy
people are talking about theirwork days and how much it
changes their persona and theirday knowing that they'll get
their work day to yeah or orinteract.
(32:29):
so hearing that this is ahelpful tips and tricks for
management for any level is justso empowering and giving tools
and ways for all organizations,because you've just hit on
institutions that felt like theyshould be more siloed, but even
within them you need that levelof brevity and element to pause
(32:54):
and let people be who they arewell, think about.
Morag (32:56):
We spend most of our working and waking lives at work
.
If we have no friends at workand unfortunately, 20 of the
leaders who've taken the allymindset profile say they have
nobody to turn to.
Well, on the best, the bestdays, that's lonely and
isolating.
But what happens when yourproject goes off the rails or
(33:17):
you're missing a milestone oryou've hit a hurdle?
If you've got nobody to turn totalk about stress, anxiety and
burnout?
And if we find ourselves on thejob market, who are we going to
turn to to help us land thatnext opportunity?
Who are we going to turn to tohelp us land that next
opportunity?
Claude (33:31):
So it's in our interest to invest in those relationships
today so that we can have funevery day but also that we are
better prepared for theinevitable hurdles and knocked
knees that we're all going tohave on this journey.
We spoke at some point or sowith Jess, where we spend most
(33:52):
of the time at work, like yousay, and a lot of time our
significant other will notunderstand what we are going
through.
So that's why it's so importantto have this person, this ally
I love that word, I have to saythis ally that understands where
we are coming from andsometimes it's not to give point
(34:13):
of view, but just to listen andto be there.
I'm here because that's notwhat you always have at home.
Morag (34:20):
You cannot do that no, they listen to our soap opera
drama and they perhaps can keepup with some of the cast of
characters, but they're not init.
They, they can't help.
And we need to have thatconversation, either with the
ally or with the person withwhom we're butting heads, so
that we can do different.
Jess (34:37):
So at the very beginning I made a comment.
I'm curious what your thoughtsare on this.
What would be the number onemistake people are making when
trying to establish workfriendships?
Morag (34:48):
Using hope as a strategy.
If I'd had a penny, well, ifI'd had a penny for every leader
that says well, you just doyour job and prove that you are
trustworthy and worthy of beingan ally, in about two years
we'll be okay.
Well, at the pace of change,none of us have two years to get
to that point, and so it isamazing how quickly we can
(35:12):
deepen a relationship.
One of the ways to do that isif you truly are somebody's ally
, if you truly are somebody'sbestie at work, even if you've
worked together for 10 years,tell them, make the implicit,
explicit, say you were listeningto this podcast and it got me
thinking about you and I justwant you to know I'm grateful
for the work we've done togetherand think about the colleague
(35:36):
you would jump at the chance towork with again.
Who comes to mind?
What makes them special andI've asked that question of
thousands of leaders and thethemes that come through are
clear.
It's rarely about how smart theywere.
Occasionally that getsmentioned.
It is rarely about theirtechnical skills yeah, that does
get mentioned.
It is invariably all about howthey made you feel that they
(36:01):
gave you the tough feedback thattransformed your approach, that
they took a risk on you beforeyou thought you were ready, that
they were fun to be around.
They coached, they mentored you.
It's all about the people,skills.
And so, as you're listening tothis conversation, that
colleague that you jump at thechance to work with again, the
(36:23):
work bestie that you alreadyknow you have but you haven't
told I.
Dare you, I double dog, dareyou Send them a message.
Tell them next time you seethem.
Send them a LinkedIn message,text message that says hey, I
was listening to this podcast,work Besties, thinking about
best colleagues, colleagues Iwould love to work with again.
And you came to mind.
(36:43):
And here's why, when I getleaders to do that in our
leadership programs, when westart getting the replies back,
it's everything from oh shucks,you've made my day, don't
mention it to really profoundmessages.
So don't assume, don't hopethat other people know that you
(37:04):
are their ally.
Tell them and then show them byfollowing through.
Jess (37:12):
I kid you not, claude can attest because she has it in her
hands too.
Our challenge for the workbesties was to take a moment
today to tell a colleague thatyou appreciate.
Reach out to that work bestiewho doesn't even know that
they're your work bestie andstart building that stronger
(37:35):
connection.
You'll never know until you doit how fitting so thank you and
do it.
Morag (37:47):
I had a leader this is a heartbreaking one.
I had one leader who did thatand they followed.
I'm going to cry as I thinkabout it.
But they followed up with meand they said you know, I sent
that message because you told meto and you made me.
He said, but the person Ireached out to and here was the
reply they passed away one monthlater and had you not
(38:08):
encouraged us to send thatmessage, I would not have had
that opportunity to close thatloop.
So I'm hoping this isn't thefirst, you know, the last time
you get to do this.
But it doesn't matter whetheryou're the CEO or brand new.
We all appreciate hearing thatwe are seen, we're heard, we're
(38:30):
valued.
So send that message.
I think that's a fabulous callto action.
Jess (38:36):
I love that.
It's a sad reminder of howfleeting life is and important
it is to be so open witheverybody right away, but very
moving.
Claude (38:49):
Thank you for sharing that kind of that is short and
we need to appreciate people, weneed to tell them that's where
ripples and joys come in everyfriday at sky team.
Morag (38:59):
It's a way of celebrating hey, congratulations, player
one, you've made it to the nextweek.
But it's a way of celebratinghey, congratulations, player one
, you've made it to the nextweek.
But it is a way of recognizingjust how far we've come together
and just taking a breath, forwhat are we going to be doing,
going forward together.
Jess (39:14):
This is fantastic.
This conversation was so onbrand to work besties, who we
stand for, what we're trying tocreate in this movement, and it
was just nothing short ofinspiring all the way up to the
very end.
I still have chills.
We love how you broke downpower of workplace friendships
and leaderships.
It's all about us becoming fromthe you, the me to the we.
(39:37):
So thank you for sharing that.
Do you have any parting wordsthat you'd like?
Morag (39:42):
to I do.
If I've piqued your curiosity,then of course, please get your
hands on you, me, we.
That's available in audio print, kindle, whatever your poison,
whichever your preferred way.
But I also invite you all tocontinue and add to our research
by learning about your own allymindset and the five practices.
(40:05):
So you can do that by going toskyteam S-K-Y-E teamcloud
forward.
Slash you me we and it willtake you straight to the ally
mindset profile and, of course,connect with me on LinkedIn.
Follow our work at skyteamcomand I look forward to being your
ally at work.
Claude (40:26):
Thank you so much, morag , it was so fantastic.
Jess (40:30):
So to our work besties out there, let's keep that
conversation going.
Morag has put out a couple ofcall of attentions, one for all
of us, but for you allspecifically, to check out
Morag's book, her website.
Really think about how you canmake a difference.
So if you loved this episodewhich we sure you did make sure
to like, subscribe and hit thatfollow button so you never miss
(40:53):
an upcoming episode.
And please don't forget toleave us a review.
And please share this episode.
It has been so moving for us.
We know others will be inspiredby it too.
So, with that, keep onsupporting each other.
Work besties Bye.
Remember, whether you'reswapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
(41:13):
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (41:19):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
Hello, my work besties.
What if the secret to careersuccesses isn't just what you
know, but who you know and howyou connect with them?
Today's guest, Marag, is hereto prove that workplace
relationships are more than justa nice to have.
We please recommend you stay tothe very end so that you can
(00:20):
hear some of the tips and tricksand some of the mistakes that
people make when trying to buildwork friendships.
Claude (00:26):
Hi.
I'm Claude and I'm Jess.
We are corporate employees byday, entrepreneurs by night and
work besties for life.
Jess (00:35):
Join us as we explore how work besties lift each other up,
laugh through the chaos andthrive together in every
industry.
Work besties Hello, we are soexcited to have you on board.
Morag (00:56):
Marag, why don't you give a background on yourself and
how you?
My goodness?
Well, I saw the name of thepodcast.
I was thinking that is theplace for me and I'm only sorry
that my work besties, eric andRuby, had another commitment and
couldn't be here to party onwith us all, because that would
have been so much fun.
But what really caught my eyewas, with the work besties theme
is here you see, showcased.
(01:16):
My latest book with my workbesties, eric and Ruby, is
called you, me, we, why we AllNeed a Friend at Work and how to
Show Up as One.
So I think this is a match madein heaven.
So you asked for a little bitabout me.
So here you go.
The accent is not from Colorado,where I'm currently based.
I'm originally from England.
(01:37):
I know, shocking, I do say I'mfrom Texas, but then people say,
oh y'all, no, I can't do it.
I've lived here in Colorado for20 years and my sons, who were
seven and four when we arrived,are now all six foot tall and
fully grown.
And when I am not helping totake the junior high out of the
workplace and bring humanity andfriendships back in, you will
(02:01):
find me ballroom dancing orplaying the bassoon for the
local symphony orchestra.
Not at the same time, becausethat would be awkward.
So there you go.
If that doesn't make me aninternational woman of mystery,
I don't know what will all ofthem.
So I was thinking about goingto the grizzly rose this week,
(02:22):
which is the cowboy country balldance this week, but I have
just off stage here, a wardrobe,a closet full of dresses with
sequins and parcels and sparkles.
Jess (02:36):
I think we have pictures of you in that.
I feel like that needs to be.
Morag (02:41):
I will send you some.
I have one that I'm spinning.
It makes me look like anold-fashioned car wash.
You know, with the big brushesdon't judge.
Yeah, there you go.
I think we've bonded.
I think we can class ourselvesas friends at work now yes, I
mean that's.
Jess (02:57):
That's stuff that you don't share with just anybody
for sure absolutely that's themistake we make.
Morag (03:03):
The first mistake is and I made it earlier in my career
is we've got to be all buttonedup, stiff, upper lip, british
professional at all times.
But the reality is, when weshare these nuggets, the
ballroom dancing, the classicalmusic, the three six-foot suns,
etc.
Those are moments of connectionthat move us from being
(03:25):
strangers with nothing in commonto acquaintances and work
colleagues with something orsomeone in common.
Claude (03:34):
Definitely.
And how did you come aboutwriting this book on work
friendship?
Morag (03:39):
Well, it comes out of my first book.
My first book is calledCultivate the Power of Winning
Relationships and the secondedition of that is about to come
out and it's all been updated,post-pandemic.
But even with that bookCultivate the Power of Winning
Relationships it introduces therelationship ecosystem and this
idea of being allies and havingallies aka friends at work and
(04:06):
having allies aka friends atwork.
And what we found with thethousands of leaders that we're
working with around the world.
They were asking this is great.
It's changed my mindset abouthow I collaborate with others in
the workplace.
But how do I show up as an ally, what does that mean, without
just becoming a yes person and adoormat?
And so Eric Ruby and I wentback to the beginning.
We interviewed hundreds ofleaders.
(04:27):
We have an ally mindset profilewhere more than a thousand
leaders from around the worldhave now provided their input,
and that is what created you, me, we, and here we're talking
about how do you show up as afriend for others and how do you
show up at work as a friend foryourself, so that your own
(04:49):
values, your own needs, your ownhopes, dreams, aspirations are
getting as much care andattention as you're lavishing on
your colleagues and thebusiness goals that you might be
asked to deliver together.
That's fascinating.
Jess (05:04):
You've hit on a couple of topics that we tend to love to
dabble in.
You have more of the stats andthe facts behind it, which is my
forte, so I'm so excited tohear about some of that and the
fact that you interviewed peopleand talked to really get to the
root of it.
One of the things you bring upis ally method.
How do you get leadership toshift from that me first to a me
(05:29):
first mindset and approach?
Morag (05:51):
Can I beat the exam board ?
Can I graduate in the top Xpercent of my class Me, me and
yet, when we arrive in theworkplace, this is the biggest
team sport that many of us getto participate in, because my
success is dependent on others.
Whether I'm a solopreneur,whether I'm working in a small
(06:14):
startup organization, or whetherI'm working in a 10,000
multi-country company, mysuccess depends on others.
We can't hype form alone, andso that's the first mindset
shift that we have to make.
I have to care as much aboutyou and your success as you do
about my own.
(06:35):
This podcast conversation is asmall microcosm of that, because
you two can be the fabulisthosts, but if I sit here quietly
and looking miserable, thenit's not going to be a very
scintillating conversation orvery interesting for your
audience.
And vice versa.
It doesn't matter how manystats I have, but if I can't
(06:57):
bring it alive and show andshare the stories of how it's
transformed leader reputationsor organizational cultures and
leave your audience with somepragmatic first steps, none of
us are going to be bettertogether, and that's our whole
mantra.
How can we be better together?
Jess (07:16):
So, knowing that what would be one simple thing that
leadership can do today to getthem from that me to we and help
foster that encouragement ofthe environment, Well, firstly,
is to start thinking about it asto how do you feel?
Morag (07:36):
So in you, me, we, we have a three step process Look
up, show up, step up, Look up ishow do I feel?
Am I having fun at work?
I'm about to go into thismeeting with Jess and Claude.
Am I looking forward to it oram I going?
Oh, do you remember last monthwhen they were mean to me at
(07:58):
lunchtime or whatever?
Claude (08:01):
We all went to those meetings.
Morag (08:03):
And so we're all worried about those meetings.
Yes, we've all been to thosemeetings where we're worried
about who's going to show up andwe're thinking about well, I'm
going to say the first smartthing first and go on the
offensive.
Or, if Jess and Claude do this,I'm going to do that.
We're on the defensive, butwe're not thinking about the
business decision at hand.
So the first thing is what am Ifeeling?
Am I having fun?
(08:23):
Am I feeling nervous?
Am I feeling tired?
Am I anxious or stressed?
Because that energy impacts howwe show up.
And that brings me to thesecond point how do I want us to
feel at the end of this meeting, this decision, this
conversation?
Because then that moves to thechoice, the intentionality of
(08:43):
how do I need to show up.
Do I need to bring the quiet,thoughtful reflective more out,
which is what I use in myexecutive coaching, or do I need
to bring the energized,enthusiastic, let's bounce ideas
off each other, which isprobably what you need for an
effective podcast conversation.
(09:04):
So look up, show up, step up isall about how do I feel, how do
I want others to feel, and thenmaking a choice of what is it
that I need to do or say or howdo I need to be in order to
ensure a more successful outcome?
Claude (09:21):
So I have a question on this, because we all have
meetings where we get angry justgoing into the meeting because
we know how it's going to become, how it's going to end up, and
there are so many memes whereyou have, oh, I'm so angry
before even going to thismeeting.
So we know how we are showingup.
(09:43):
How can we change that mindset?
Morag (09:47):
So awareness is the first bit and congratulations on
knowing.
But there is that I think it'sa misattributed quote to
Einstein that the definition ofinsanity is doing the same thing
over and over and expecting itto be different.
And so if we know we're goingin frustrated, you can bet your
colleagues are thinking, oh God,warwick's going to be
(10:09):
frustrated again, and so they'recoming defensive.
And then we're not having thereal conversations, we're not
getting to the root cause, andso we're just fueling each other
in this downward spiral.
The best leaders I've workedwith, I've seen them start with
a simple pulse check.
It might be give me one word todescribe how you're feeling as
(10:32):
we come into this conversation.
And it might be, you know,enthusiastic, curious,
overwhelmed, confused.
And the idea is not then topoke the finger and blame and
say, well, tell me more aboutthat.
Now you've got a pulse tounderstand.
Okay, so how do we given that,how do we make this the best use
of our time we can To anincluding?
(10:53):
Do we need to reschedule tillnext week?
And as leaders, the goal is notto make everybody happy.
We're not responsible for otherpeople's happiness.
Oh, you get thumbs up.
Nor are we trying tonecessarily get to everybody
saying, yes, it's the differencebetween buy-in and bought-in.
We want everybody to be able toshare what's on their mind,
(11:13):
what they're excited for, whatthey're worried for, what might
get in the way of success, forthem to feel that those concerns
are heard and considered andthen, whatever the decision is,
the bought in is that we can beone voice to the rest of the
organization Says yes, we lookedat all of the different choices
(11:33):
.
We realize this isn't perfectand here's what we're doing and
why.
Versus going out and continuingto do what I call BMW bitch,
moan and whine, I say thatComplainers, oh gosh, you won't
believe what Jess has asked usto do.
It'll never work.
Well, that undermines the team,it undermines confidence in the
(11:54):
leadership team and it erodesour relationship.
So what do you do if you'reconsistently feeling frustrated?
If it's with a person, then youneed to have a conversation
with that person.
Hey Claude, it feels like we'vebeen butting heads the last
three times we got together.
Does it feel the same for you?
What can we do to move pastthis and get on with what we
(12:15):
need to be able to do together?
Claude (12:17):
It comes back to again how I'm like working on a
relationship.
You know any other relationship.
It's a work relationship, butit's still a relationship.
It is.
Jess (12:28):
And in some of these instances, though, there's a
difference in, say, the levelright.
So in the particular meetingslet's say we're going into,
maybe claude and I are the samelevel and we aren't the ones
that have the strife, it's thebosses.
So we're seeing them have it.
What would be some things asthe individual witnessing it,
that we could help coach let'sassume in this scenario, I am
(12:52):
your boss.
Morag (12:52):
It's a bit like now I'm picturing of star wars I'm your
father.
Well, I'm not.
I'm the boss.
And you two are like mygoodness, morag, she's not
listening when you, if you havean ally, you have each other's
back.
Here's an opportunity for youtwo to get together to say, okay
, is it just me?
(13:13):
You feel like Morag's talkingat cross purposes.
And then how do we, how do oneof you have that conversation
with me as your boss?
Now, it's scary, and I'm notsuggesting that everybody should
just pitch in and have thattough conversation from the
get-go.
There's two things I want youto take away from that message
(13:35):
and call to action.
One is yes, it could be careerlimiting for you to come to me
as your boss and give me badfeedback, so you need to find a
way to do it in a way that youfeel safe, that you feel like
you're likely to be heard.
But it's also career limitingfor me as the boss if I'm only
getting the nods of oh no,everything's lovely, morag, when
(13:58):
in fact it's not so.
It's in both our interests.
It's the we first for us tofind a way to have that
conversation, and the going toyour ally, going to your friend
at work and saying, hey, help methink this through, help me
role play it.
There's a subtle differencebetween that being gossip and
being a meaningful allyconversation.
(14:21):
The former is all about dramaGosh Maura, can you believe she
did that again?
All about drama Gosh Morag, canyou believe she did that again?
And that puts them center stageand usually portrays that
person as the villain, whereaswhen you're having an ally
conversation, you can still say,goodness, I can't believe Morag
asked us to do it.
(14:42):
Now you're on the stage with meand it's all about and how do
we get past this?
How do we help her to see theother perspectives?
And this is the power, and I'veseen it happen.
It has truly, truly transformedleader reputations from at best
being a brilliant jerk, atworst a jerk, to somebody who is
(15:04):
inspiring and engaged and wewant to work with and it comes
out one conversation and onerelationship at a time.
Jess (15:10):
That's a really big, bold message that I hope our work
besties take across, because werely so much on hearing and
feeling the culture from yourleadership, but it's kind of a
cyclical nature.
You need the managers underthem to also have a role and
responsibility too and to knowthat they should so feel
(15:32):
empowered.
Morag (15:33):
So I think you nailed it there.
It's easy to say, well, theyneed to go first, they need to
fix it.
But we are all, no matterwhether we are the newest
entry-level emerging leaderthat's just joined the
organization or the CEO.
We're all the they to somebody.
And whilst we might not be ableto change the organizational
(15:56):
culture overnight or fix thatteam that sits in the UK that
keeps driving you nuts, what Ican do is fix the relationship,
and the next meeting I'm in Ican choose, if I'm a people
manager, to make a little oasisof calm and a team of allies
(16:16):
around my table, and then I'llworry about how we as a team
build a relationship with theteams up and downstream of us.
So I think there's always morethat we can do at an individual
and a team level that thenstarts to affect and pick up
momentum at an organizationallywide level.
Jess (16:35):
I love your Oasis example because it's like the ripple of
a puddle right.
You are an individual with amaybe small thing that, but then
it can really expand.
I mean, it happens in thenegative so often, but you can
do it in the positive.
Claude (16:51):
You can, yes, and I love also the word ally, right, I
think it's a very strong wordwhere it's again that
relationship, that understandingeach other, hearing each other.
Now you said also at thebeginning that you interviewed a
lot of leaders and were theyall very open that how important
(17:14):
it is to have allies, to havework bases, because sometimes we
do hear that never be friendswith your co-workers.
So I just want to understandwhat was their perspective.
Morag (17:26):
It went for every level of heck.
No, it's not personal, it'sjust business.
Got no time for this.
Through to those who were rolemodeling it.
And, if I go with stereotypes,we interviewed leaders in oil
and gas, gold mining literallylife and death.
Environments where, if I don'thave your back, if we're not
(17:49):
taking and following the safetyprecautions, literally we can
lose life and limb.
Caring, compassionate, allabout helping, making others
(18:12):
better, but maybe shied awayfrom the tough feedback and
holding each other accountablefor the standards and the new
ways of working that may beexpected.
And we interviewed leaders fromacross 20 countries and on six
continents.
Now, we haven't interviewedeverybody.
Here's the thing, the language.
Whether you choose to call themcolleagues, workmates, friends,
(18:33):
allies, I don't care.
All I want to do is, for thenext six weeks that we're
working together, for the threeyears we're going to be on this
team, let's have a little fun,let's make life and work a
little lighter and let's createan environment where we can all
show up and do our best worktogether.
(18:56):
That's the power of having andbeing an ally or a friend or a
bestie.
Jess (19:03):
So there's a way to do that authentically, but there's
also a way to do itinauthentically right.
So if I was, let's say, amanager who is just not open,
not a very inviting person, andI take this course or training
with you or learn from even justreading your book, the next day
I show up like okay, now I wantto talk about how we have fun.
(19:27):
The next day, I show up likeokay, now I want to talk about
how we have fun.
Morag (19:36):
How would you help somebody that goes from one
persona to this without it beinginauthentic?
So I have yet to meet anybodywho gets up in the morning and
thinks, oh, I want to be seen asa brilliant jerk today or as an
adversary, which is one of theother relationships dynamics I
talk about in the book.
We get it because either ourstyles are misaligned, maybe our
goals are in competition thisisn't about personality
(19:58):
transplants.
Nobody needs to do a 180 on whothey are but I guess all of us
need to round out the edges.
So here's an easy way Buyeverybody a copy of my book you,
me, we and read it.
Maybe say, hey, I was listeningto the podcast Worst Work
Besties and I realized that Ican occasionally come across as
(20:22):
a little directive, telling atthat point you don't need to
apologize for being who you are.
What do you need to promise tobe different?
Because, let's face it, I'm notgoing to change.
You can say, hey, what's oneone tip, what's one thing I
could do to just soften that abit, or to show up a little
different, to listen more than Italk, and then just say thank
(20:45):
you.
So listen and take what worksfor you, because I guarantee,
when we are listening, when weare leaning in, when we can
still say no, but do it in a wayor disagree in a way that
strengthens the relationship anddoesn't damage it, the magic
happens.
(21:05):
Because then I stop filtering, Istop anticipating.
Well, there's no point sayingI'm not even going to bother
trying because Jess will say no,how do I know?
Because you might have said yes, but I never even asked.
I didn't take the informed risk, I didn't innovate because I
was worried about getting intotrouble.
So every time we step away fromthe relationship, our ability
(21:27):
to deliver the business resultsof what we do and how we
organize gets eroded.
This is the secret sauce tosuccess.
No matter what industry you'rein, what level of career you're
in, it is all about who you workwith and who you work for.
Claude (21:43):
That's very well said.
So, being a little bit personalnow, so we know you have worked
best team right, eric and ruby.
So how did you meet and how didyou feel that connection, that
suddenly it was like that's it,they are my best or they are my
ally it's interesting when I askleaders, when I think about
(22:06):
what it takes to become an ally.
Morag (22:08):
There are people that you meet in life where you just
connect and it's like we arelost deep souls, even though we
may never have met in person.
In three dimensions, we've onlymet through Zoom or we've only
met for the first time, andthose are magical.
Now, with Ruby, she will sharethat.
(22:28):
It took several months for usto get to this.
I knew from the get-go that Iam abundance and generosity.
I want you to be successful.
And she would email or shewould Slack me and she goes can
I do this?
And what?
Do you agree?
And I would go, yes, becauseRuby, you're fabulous.
She is the most amazingexecutive coach.
I adore her.
But I didn't tell her that.
(22:50):
And there came a point when shewent to Eric and she goes I'm
writing these emails Morag, howwas your weekend?
And I want to do this and Ithink it'll help us with that.
And she was getting the yesback or the one line of do it.
And she was reading into that.
Am I in trouble?
Does Morag not like me?
And so my flex is I'll writethe email that says, yeah, go do
(23:11):
it.
And then I'll go back and sayand so how was your weekend?
And hugs and kisses.
And that's just how I have toadapt.
I have on my calendar a weeklyreminder to reach out to, and
each week it's a different listof five or 10 folks, not because
I'm cheating, but because Icare so much I don't want to
(23:35):
forget.
And so how do we do it?
One conversation at a time, byasking a new team member.
So what is it you expect of meas your boss, or what do you
expect of me as your peer?
Here's what you can expect fromme.
These are my hot buttons.
This is what success looks like.
These are my hot buttons.
This is what success looks like, For example, when we're going
on a client meeting.
When I say we arrive early forMorag, that means 15 minutes, it
(23:57):
does not mean five minutesbefore.
If we don't actually make theimplicit explicit, how would
anybody know?
You'll learn over time, alongthe way, we're going to butt
heads and I'm going to getfrustrated because you're
arriving seven minutes beforeinstead of 15, all because we
didn't take the time to just sitback and say tell me your
journey, what excites you, whatfrustrates you?
(24:20):
And here let me share mine.
And now, how can your story you, how does my story me, and how
do we put that together to makesomething unique that only we
can do together?
Jess (24:33):
So, margu, with this new kind of work dynamic where so
much of it is hybrid or fullyremote, are there different
tactics or things you wouldrecommend to help, kind of?
Morag (24:44):
break down?
Yes, because when we went outfor lunch or let's grab a drink
(25:08):
after work, or even walking fromone meeting room to another,
when I saw you Before thepandemic, we at SkyTeam all of
our leadership developmentprograms, our team coaching, was
in person.
I was of the opinion if youwant to be a better human, you
have to do it in a room withother humans.
Well, the pandemic took thataway from all of us, and so one
of the choices I made was tolean into these, was to lean
(25:29):
into these two-dimensionalconversations, and some of my
newest, deepest friendships,professional relationships, have
been made through the camera.
Because we chose to make thetime for the small talk before
we got down to the big work.
We chose to share a little bitmore about what's happening.
(25:51):
We chose to let you into myoffice and you can assume I have
a thing for Jamie.
He does have a thing for me too, he just doesn't know it.
Yeah, for those who arelistening and can't see, I have
a display holding a life-sizemodel of Jamie from Outlander,
and if you're still not sure,then you either have to call me
or get the books are watching.
(26:14):
You need to go watch it.
Just to stare at that the wholetime you do.
You can see from this there's aunicorn picture up there,
that's an aspiring tattoo I'mthinking of getting.
These are the things where youstart to say, oh, I wonder what
that's all about and ask more,like I'd love to know.
I remember making.
Behind Jess are some paperrings.
(26:36):
I remember making those atelementary school when I was a
child, especially in theholidays, and a bit of paper
we're celebrating for Lunar NewYear.
So even then, that now tells methat there's an Asian influence
here.
If it's Lunar New Year, there'ssomething that's driving that
and there's a topic potentiallyfor conversation later on.
(26:58):
And so, whether we're meetingcan actually shake hands and
press the flesh in anappropriate HR way, or whether
we are just meeting through thecamera, our choice is to share
more slow down, because genuineconnection happens not just in
the work that we do together.
It happens in the spacesbetween the work that we do
(27:20):
together.
Jess (27:20):
It's come up a number of times, taking the time, whether
it's in the beginning of ameeting or at the end, to just
connect and have thoseconversations about how you're
doing or something that you hadtalked about beforeude, and I
chat about like I'm the worst atthat.
We get together and I'm rightinto the business of like did
you get this, this and this?
Morag (27:40):
you're like good morning so we start all our sky team
meetings with a section calledwe call Ripples and Joys, and we
took that from an organizationcalled City Year and we've been
doing it now for 10 years andwhen we started I thought, oh
God, this is hokey Like.
Come on down to business.
Ripples and Joys are thingswe've done that have moved a
(28:05):
client forward or a projectforward or a new document we've
created.
You know it can be thetransactional stuff and then the
joys is anything, personally orprofessionally, that's brought
us joy and made us happy.
And it is powerful because, asa leader, when you take a few
minutes to get your team andshare, you learn what motivates
people without having to ask.
(28:25):
You're learning about thechallenges that they may be
navigating in their whole lives,that may be impacting how
they're showing up in their worklives.
So to your point, small talk,icebreakers, it may not come
naturally.
So what can we do as leaders?
Start putting it on the agenda,making it safe, role modeling
it, being curious and over timeit will create a life of its own
(28:49):
and transform it.
I'll give you an example.
We had a leader a defensecontractor, I believe, but think
about it Very secret work thatthey can't tell us about, with
everybody having to swipethrough into secret parts of the
office.
And, needless to say, when wearrived, the culture was very
politics, silos, turf, wars.
Nobody really communicated.
(29:10):
And the CEO turned to eric andsaid so are you saying that I've
got to start every meeting withfive minutes of small talk?
And eric went, yes.
So this leader and it's in thebooks literally added the gender
item that says marks fiveminutes of small talk, and it
was very structured, a bit likemy meeting reminder.
Well, it took on a life of itsown, such that everybody other
(29:34):
leaders started putting Mark'sfive minutes of small talk on
theirs.
And that culture yes, theystill work in their silos
because they have to, but youhear laughter, there's fun,
there is a sense of connectionin a team and an organization
that was disconnected beforehandand all it took was Mark's five
minutes of small talk.
Claude (29:55):
It's so funny because you would think that putting in
an agenda is not authentic,right, because it's like it's
something I have to do.
It's not something that I wantto do, but at the end it became
life on its own and reallyeverybody embraced it bring more
(30:15):
of that humanness to all ourconversations.
Morag (30:19):
So if you go to our website skyteamcom that's
s-k-y-e because of the isle ofsky off the west coast of
scotland, because I'm a mcleodand that's where the clan mcleod
from comes from so more nuggetsyou go to our website.
We rebranded the website twoyears ago.
We have unicorns all over theplace.
(30:39):
It was a throwaway comment thatI made 10 years ago that took
on a life of its own.
I have so many unicorn themedthings at home that clients have
sent me Unicorn socks, unicorntrotskies it doesn't matter,
it's there and we decided tojust own it.
Now there are still going to beand this goes back to your
earlier question, claude, aboutthe people who don't perceive
(31:00):
the need for friendships at workthe idea of unicorns for those
folks are also likely to be.
Well, that's just ridiculous.
That's not professional.
You know what?
That's fine.
Then that means we're not theright partner for you.
But for those who lean in, Idecided let's bring some humor
to our styling and let's put itfront and center.
(31:21):
And it has been magical,literally magical.
And I was going to be anengineer.
I spent 15 years in finance.
I am that logical businessfirst thinker.
But I am having so much morefun even more fun now that we're
having a little bit more of thequirky you know, everyday
conversations in our lives.
(31:42):
You're making me so happy.
Jess (31:44):
One of the things I was thinking is like so we started
this podcast because therelationship that Claude and I
have was having that rippleeffect in our organization, and
I think it was a throwawaycomment that someone said to us
like oh, maybe you guys shouldhave a podcast to spread this to
everyone else.
And, typical me, I'd likechecklist of staff.
I quickly ran and was like let'sgo do it yeah we are doing it
(32:09):
and I'm like, yeah, claude's,like, oh my, I thought it was
just a joke, I don't know we'removing forward with that, but
the the thing that we've lovedso much about it is how happy
people are talking about theirwork days and how much it
changes their persona and theirday knowing that they'll get
their work day to yeah or orinteract.
(32:29):
so hearing that this is ahelpful tips and tricks for
management for any level is justso empowering and giving tools
and ways for all organizations,because you've just hit on
institutions that felt like theyshould be more siloed, but even
within them you need that levelof brevity and element to pause
(32:54):
and let people be who they arewell, think about.
Morag (32:56):
We spend most of our working and waking lives at work
.
If we have no friends at workand unfortunately, 20 of the
leaders who've taken the allymindset profile say they have
nobody to turn to.
Well, on the best, the bestdays, that's lonely and
isolating.
But what happens when yourproject goes off the rails or
(33:17):
you're missing a milestone oryou've hit a hurdle?
If you've got nobody to turn totalk about stress, anxiety and
burnout?
And if we find ourselves on thejob market, who are we going to
turn to to help us land thatnext opportunity?
Who are we going to turn to tohelp us land that next
opportunity?
Claude (33:31):
So it's in our interest to invest in those relationships
today so that we can have funevery day but also that we are
better prepared for theinevitable hurdles and knocked
knees that we're all going tohave on this journey.
We spoke at some point or sowith Jess, where we spend most
(33:52):
of the time at work, like yousay, and a lot of time our
significant other will notunderstand what we are going
through.
So that's why it's so importantto have this person, this ally
I love that word, I have to saythis ally that understands where
we are coming from andsometimes it's not to give point
(34:13):
of view, but just to listen andto be there.
I'm here because that's notwhat you always have at home.
Morag (34:20):
You cannot do that no, they listen to our soap opera
drama and they perhaps can keepup with some of the cast of
characters, but they're not init.
They, they can't help.
And we need to have thatconversation, either with the
ally or with the person withwhom we're butting heads, so
that we can do different.
Jess (34:37):
So at the very beginning I made a comment.
I'm curious what your thoughtsare on this.
What would be the number onemistake people are making when
trying to establish workfriendships?
Morag (34:48):
Using hope as a strategy.
If I'd had a penny, well, ifI'd had a penny for every leader
that says well, you just doyour job and prove that you are
trustworthy and worthy of beingan ally, in about two years
we'll be okay.
Well, at the pace of change,none of us have two years to get
to that point, and so it isamazing how quickly we can
(35:12):
deepen a relationship.
One of the ways to do that isif you truly are somebody's ally
, if you truly are somebody'sbestie at work, even if you've
worked together for 10 years,tell them, make the implicit,
explicit, say you were listeningto this podcast and it got me
thinking about you and I justwant you to know I'm grateful
for the work we've done togetherand think about the colleague
(35:36):
you would jump at the chance towork with again.
Who comes to mind?
What makes them special andI've asked that question of
thousands of leaders and thethemes that come through are
clear.
It's rarely about how smart theywere.
Occasionally that getsmentioned.
It is rarely about theirtechnical skills yeah, that does
get mentioned.
It is invariably all about howthey made you feel that they
(36:01):
gave you the tough feedback thattransformed your approach, that
they took a risk on you beforeyou thought you were ready, that
they were fun to be around.
They coached, they mentored you.
It's all about the people,skills.
And so, as you're listening tothis conversation, that
colleague that you jump at thechance to work with again, the
(36:23):
work bestie that you alreadyknow you have but you haven't
told I.
Dare you, I double dog, dareyou Send them a message.
Tell them next time you seethem.
Send them a LinkedIn message,text message that says hey, I
was listening to this podcast,work Besties, thinking about
best colleagues, colleagues Iwould love to work with again.
And you came to mind.
(36:43):
And here's why, when I getleaders to do that in our
leadership programs, when westart getting the replies back,
it's everything from oh shucks,you've made my day, don't
mention it to really profoundmessages.
So don't assume, don't hopethat other people know that you
(37:04):
are their ally.
Tell them and then show them byfollowing through.
Jess (37:12):
I kid you not, claude can attest because she has it in her
hands too.
Our challenge for the workbesties was to take a moment
today to tell a colleague thatyou appreciate.
Reach out to that work bestiewho doesn't even know that
they're your work bestie andstart building that stronger
(37:35):
connection.
You'll never know until you doit how fitting so thank you and
do it.
Morag (37:47):
I had a leader this is a heartbreaking one.
I had one leader who did thatand they followed.
I'm going to cry as I thinkabout it.
But they followed up with meand they said you know, I sent
that message because you told meto and you made me.
He said, but the person Ireached out to and here was the
reply they passed away one monthlater and had you not
(38:08):
encouraged us to send thatmessage, I would not have had
that opportunity to close thatloop.
So I'm hoping this isn't thefirst, you know, the last time
you get to do this.
But it doesn't matter whetheryou're the CEO or brand new.
We all appreciate hearing thatwe are seen, we're heard, we're
(38:30):
valued.
So send that message.
I think that's a fabulous callto action.
Jess (38:36):
I love that.
It's a sad reminder of howfleeting life is and important
it is to be so open witheverybody right away, but very
moving.
Claude (38:49):
Thank you for sharing that kind of that is short and
we need to appreciate people, weneed to tell them that's where
ripples and joys come in everyfriday at sky team.
Morag (38:59):
It's a way of celebrating hey, congratulations, player
one, you've made it to the nextweek.
But it's a way of celebratinghey, congratulations, player one
, you've made it to the nextweek.
But it is a way of recognizingjust how far we've come together
and just taking a breath, forwhat are we going to be doing,
going forward together.
Jess (39:14):
This is fantastic.
This conversation was so onbrand to work besties, who we
stand for, what we're trying tocreate in this movement, and it
was just nothing short ofinspiring all the way up to the
very end.
I still have chills.
We love how you broke downpower of workplace friendships
and leaderships.
It's all about us becoming fromthe you, the me to the we.
(39:37):
So thank you for sharing that.
Do you have any parting wordsthat you'd like?
Morag (39:42):
to I do.
If I've piqued your curiosity,then of course, please get your
hands on you, me, we.
That's available in audio print, kindle, whatever your poison,
whichever your preferred way.
But I also invite you all tocontinue and add to our research
by learning about your own allymindset and the five practices.
(40:05):
So you can do that by going toskyteam S-K-Y-E teamcloud
forward.
Slash you me we and it willtake you straight to the ally
mindset profile and, of course,connect with me on LinkedIn.
Follow our work at skyteamcomand I look forward to being your
ally at work.
Claude (40:26):
Thank you so much, morag , it was so fantastic.
Jess (40:30):
So to our work besties out there, let's keep that
conversation going.
Morag has put out a couple ofcall of attentions, one for all
of us, but for you allspecifically, to check out
Morag's book, her website.
Really think about how you canmake a difference.
So if you loved this episodewhich we sure you did make sure
to like, subscribe and hit thatfollow button so you never miss
(40:53):
an upcoming episode.
And please don't forget toleave us a review.
And please share this episode.
It has been so moving for us.
We know others will be inspiredby it too.
So, with that, keep onsupporting each other.
Work besties Bye.
Remember, whether you'reswapping snacks in the break
room, rescuing each other fromendless meetings or just sending
(41:13):
that perfectly timed meme.
Having a work bestie is likehaving your own personal hype
squad.
Claude (41:19):
So keep lifting each other, laughing through the
chaos and, of course, thriving.
Until next time, stay positive,stay productive and don't
forget to keep supporting eachother.
Work besties.
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