September 10, 2024 • 54 mins
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ABOUT THE EPISODE:Â
From our Fishbowl LIVE series, "The 7 Deadly Work Sins", we bring you sin #5: GREED.Â
You know greed...that feeling of nothing is ever good enough and you need more - the title, the money, the accolades. Â
- Maybe you take full credit for the team project to promote yourself.Â
- Maybe you find yourself unwilling to share information with the one colleague because you don't want them to have a leg up on you.Â
- Or, maybe you find yourself being talked over in meetings and not getting the credit you deserve.
At work, greed shows itself in a lot of different ways, and we want to talk about it. How you can recognize it, how you can manage it, and what to do if you're a victim of someone else taking from you.Â
ABOUT "THE 7 DEADLY" SERIES:Â
You want to know what really messes employees up? Raw human emotions. Listen, we ALL experience them from time to time (we totally have), but if you don't handle them well, man can they be deal breakers. In this series, we break down
• The common spectrum of experiences with each 'sin',Â
• We talk about real-life (kinda salacious stories) scenarios (yeah, this stuff happens every day),Â
• How to not ‘commit’ the sin, and
• Most importantly, how to deal with a sinner
Disclaimer: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered professional advice. We are not responsible for any losses, damages, or liabilities that may arise from the use of this podcast. The views expressed in this podcast may not be those of the host or the management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friends, it's Francesca.
Can I ask you a favor?
Can you fill out a quick surveyfor us to tell us how we're
doing on the pod?
Mel and I are finishing ourfirst season.
We've loved, loved doing thepod, but we're kind of wondering
how we do it.
What do you like, what don'tyou like?
What are your ideas for a show?
We want to hear it.
We put a link to the survey inthe show notes.
(00:21):
So if you could help us out,fill it out and maybe we'll send
you some merch.
Okay, thanks Bye.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hopefully this is a light addition to your Wednesday
afternoon.
That's what we intended to be.
What do you think, Francesca?
That's what we're hoping.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Listen, we're all wrapping up July.
I can't believe it's frickingJuly 31st.
I know we got five months left,folks this year, five months.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Unreal.
It's going to be good, takethat trip, get to the beach, do
what?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
you need to do, you need to do yeah, yeah.
You got a goal.
You got any goals that youhaven't accomplished this year,
mel, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I'm just going to pretend that it's not
happening.
No, just kidding.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Today I'm like maybe I should start to learn Italian.
It's on my bucket list, it's onmine too.
Do you want to do it together?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We should do it, I'll do it together All right, yeah,
there you go, that's good,that's good.
All right, Well enough Italianfor the day, hey friends.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, ciao, friends, friends, it is officially in the
US, and what better way to takea fun, lighthearted midweek
break with us and from work totalk about all the work shit
that we never talk about?
I'm Francesca and I'm Mel andwe've been working in HR for Mel
(01:56):
.
Let's do the math a long time,mel.
How long have you been workingin HR?
Over 20 years now, yeah, yeah,yeah, I just hit my two decade
mark, so we've seen a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We have we certainly have, and we've heard a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
We've heard a lot.
And here's the deal, friends.
If you want the good stories,ask someone in HR, because we've
seen it all and we've heard itall.
Like the amount of storieswhere I'm just like you gotta be
freaking, kidding me, youdidn't watch.
I have a whole plethora.
I quite fine, it's quite fine.
(02:33):
But the thing is, a few monthsago, mel and I started a podcast
because we wanted to talk aboutit all.
It's called your work friends.
It's on all the platforms andlisten, we're just two HR
friends, we have zero nit filter, which you will hear on this
call, and, honestly, our goal iswe want to help you get through
all the work shit.
There are some rules of thegame, there's shit going on and
(02:54):
we want to get you through itand get you through it in the
best way possible so you thrive.
But the thing is, throughoutour experience, there's an
interesting thing that hasremained true that there are
things that really frickin' trippeople up at work and sometimes
totally destroy careers.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What really messes people up, it's that raw human
emotion that no one ever talksabout the sins, if you will, as
we're calling this series andlisten.
We all experience them fromtime to time.
Francesca and I totally have.
We make fun of each other forit and we call each other out
(03:40):
for it sometimes.
But if you don't handle theseemotions well, man, can they be
real deal breakers handle theseemotions well, man, can they be
real deal breakers?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's right.
So in this series we're callingthe seven deadly work sins.
We're covering everything andwe've already covered.
This summer We've been graciousenough and had the best
opportunity to be with Fishbowlto talk about the seven deadly
sins, one every other week, andwe've covered things like lust,
wrath, pride.
You can find those recordingson Fishbowl or on your work
friends as well.
(04:09):
But today, mel, what are wetalking about?
Money, money, no, greed Cashrules everything around me Crude
, no yeah thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sorry for the reference guys.
Yeah, thank you for gettingthat, Mel.
Big greed, Big greed.
We see a lot of greed out there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Greed yeah, we see it in the news all the time.
Theranos, Wells Fargo andsometimes the biggest instances
of corporate greed in the last25 years can be traced back to
actions of specific individuals.
Right, we see it in the newsand the companies.
But let me tell you, friends,it comes down to individual
(04:49):
behaviors that really triporganizations up.
Enron, you can trace back tothree people Kenneth Lay,
Jeffrey Skilling and AndrewFaslow.
Volkswagen, Oliver Schmidt, gotthrown in jail for it.
That Martin Shreckley, that guyinterning for pharmaceuticals,
(05:09):
Speaking of Wu-Tang, didn't hebuy the Wu-Tang album?
He did, he did.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Just Wu-Tang is a theme for this today.
But here's the deal.
All of these big corporatecases can be traced back to
individual behaviors, becausegreed happens at the individual
level, and even this week wehave podcast listeners that
write in.
All the time we ask for storiesabout how people have
(05:35):
experienced all of these sins,and just this week two podcast
listeners wrote in with thesestories.
Again, that happened at theindividual level.
An employee at a mid-sizedcompany got canned for
chronically inflating theirexpenses, things like travel and
meal expenses.
Each instance seemed minor.
The cumulative effect resultwas $3,200 of unwarranted
(06:00):
unreimbursed over time.
Okay, so this guy got cannedfor basically $3,200.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What a way like.
Come on for the.
I'm not worth it.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Here's another one.
A project manager at a techstartup completely crashed his
brand for manipulatingperformance metrics to make
their project appear moresuccessful than it was.
Overstated completionpercentages, underreported
issues to secure additionalfunding for personal recognition
and to make sure that theproject and the company knew how
(06:35):
well he was doing even thoughhe wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh geez yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
This stuff happens all the time and we have our own
stories.
Mel, have you experienced greedin?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
the workplace.
Yeah, yeah, I think on a moreminor level, directly, I've
witnessed greediness with I'lljust put it like with resources
in work before.
So especially during volatiletimes when the market wasn't
good and layoffs are happening,I've really I witnessed two
folks specifically who I workedwith, but I was on the
(07:07):
peripheral competing one for thesame project work, so trying to
do like work grabs and then tocompeting for the same resources
to do that work and on calls,one of them would consistently
try to undermine the other andvice versa and as a bystander it
was like honestly justexhausting to watch and listen
(07:27):
to and in hindsight I know theclimate seemed to bring out the
worst in the both of thembecause that truly wasn't who
they were.
It was all fear driven.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
But that and that's on the more minor side of the
greed- yeah, listen, what'sinteresting in all of these
situations, and why we call thisthe seven deadly work sins, is
because there's always a victimof someone sinning, like Mel saw
this right, she saw it, she sawwhat was going on.
And then there's also thesinner.
(07:58):
And I've experienced this as asinner, this as a center.
Yeah, listen, I'm not perfect.
I'm in my forties and realizeI'm not perfect.
That sucks, that's a shittyrealization.
But listen, friends, it happensto all of us.
And I will say, early in mycareer, reflecting back on, have
(08:19):
I been greedy at work?
When have I been greedy?
And I think the thing thatreally for me, that I did was I
withhold information, thinkingit would help me get ahead.
Right, I have a certain levelof expertise in a few things and
I would hold back sharing myexpertise with my peers because
I always thought I'd have a legup if they didn't know certain
(08:42):
things or if I had thisinformation that they wouldn't
have.
And that's a form of greed,because I'm not willing to help
you, because I need to make surethat I get this for myself.
Yeah, it's the self-servingstuff.
Yeah, so it happens, right,greed, we all know it, right,
mel, and I know it, if you arewondering, if you're feeling it.
(09:06):
It feels like this it's likethat nothing is ever good enough
and you need more.
You need the title, the money,the accolades.
Maybe you take full credit forthe team project to promote
yourself.
Or maybe you find yourselfunwilling to share information
with that one colleague becauseyou don't want to have that leg
up on you.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, Francesca.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I don't know, maybe you need to figure it out, god.
I'm such a little asshole.
Sometimes you live, you learn,you live, you learn.
Or maybe you find yourselfbeing talked over in meetings
and not getting the credit youdeserve, right Sinner and victim
of the sin At work.
Greed shows itself in a lot ofdifferent ways, and we want to
(09:47):
talk about it today with you howyou can recognize it, how you
can manage it and what to do ifyou're the victim of someone
else's sin.
So buckle up.
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to cover how youcan recognize it again and how
you can manage it.
One of the things that we arereally loving is hearing from
(10:10):
all of you, hearing your stories.
Throughout our series to peoplehave come up on stage and
talked about their experience,either as a sinner or as the
victim of a sin or a bystander,like when you're just seeing it
in your company and you're likewhat the hell's going on.
So we're going to pauseperiodically and see do you want
to talk about it?
Come on up on stage, and at theend, we'll leave some time for
(10:33):
Q and A, right?
So if you have questions aboutgreed, you can anonymously DM us
or you can come up on stage.
I think if you come up on stage, though.
We see your name so it's notanonymous, just FYI.
Sound good.
Yeah, let's do this, let's doit.
So let's talk about greed.
Many of the problems that weface in business and in the
(10:54):
world today stem from greed,either on the employer's end or
on the employee's end.
Right, greed is really, itfeels like more and more,
especially now.
Right, there's this kind oftone in the news where
businesses feel very greedy andthen we also feel like it's
happening individually.
(11:15):
What's interesting is, 99.9% ofus have experienced greed at
work, either as an individual orjust being in a company.
Here's some examples.
For example, wage theft.
The Economic Policy Institutetalked about how wage theft
costs US workers more than $15billion a year on things like
(11:39):
unpaid overtime, minimum wageviolations.
Do you remember, mel, when weinterviewed Attorney Ryan on the
pod talking about lawyering upand he said the number one thing
that is totally systemic, morecases than ever is wage theft.
Wage theft it's the number onething.
Employee theft on theindividual side, businesses lose
(12:01):
an estimated 5% of their annualrevenues to employee fraud and
theft.
That costs the US economy about$50 billion annually.
Yikes.
Let's talk about executivecompensation.
This is a thorn in my side.
But what's really interesting,economic Policy Institute CEO
compensation, which includesstock options at large US
(12:23):
companies, increased by 1,167%between 1978 and 2019, compared
to a 14% increase in workercompensation.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Think about that that's me.
It's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
It's insane.
That's a 320 to 1 rate ratio.
That's insane.
That's insane.
And burnout and overwork, Greedone of the things, from a
company perspective, rightMaking your employees work more
because you want more.
Deloitte, 77% of professionalsexperience burnout at their
(13:02):
current job because they haveunmanageable workloads.
This element of greed is justhappening all around us, again
on the employee and on theemployer side.
So what is greed?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Mel, what do you think?
Well, I wanted to add to thatbecause we did that special too
on even the taking advantage ofsalaried workers.
Right, and I know they justrecently did that bump in the
certain level of salariedworkers that get overtime pay.
But when you really calculatethe average number of hours that
people are working at thesalary level and how much
they're missing out oncompensation, that's just
(13:36):
another example of contributingto burnout and not getting
compensated for it.
Lots of greed happening Greedof time, people's time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Excellent point.
We're seeing this all the time,freaking grease with the six
day work week, right?
Yeah, no thanks, yeah, come on,come on, yeah.
What is greed?
What is greed?
We know it when we see it, wethink we know what this is, but
the origins of both employer andemployee greed are the same.
You're wanting more than youdeserve, right?
(14:07):
Okay.
For employers, this looks likesqueezing every last drop out of
your employees without faircompensation or care for their
wellbeing.
For employees, this meansdisproportionately prioritizing
their compensation over creatingvalue for the company.
Okay, and there are three mainfactors that drive greed in the
(14:27):
workplace.
There are more, by the way.
It is a very multifaceted viewof what causes greed, but in the
workplace typically, whatdrives it?
One, corporate culture when youhave a culture that's focused
on profit maximization,aggressive reward systems, you
can incentivize unethicalbehavior really quickly, right?
(14:50):
Absolutely, we've seen it.
Q in Wells Fargo.
Yeah, pressure to performunrealistic performance targets,
job insecurity we all see it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This happens especially after layoffs or when
there's rumblings that they'regoing to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, and leadership and role models.
Listen, if you're seeing yourleaders have, quote unquote,
greedy behavior, any kind oflack of accountability, it's
going to create an environmentwhere unethical actions are more
likely to occur.
So it's again if it's in thesystem, if it's in the air, it's
more likely to happen.
(15:26):
I have seen, quote unquote,good people make the shittiest
decisions because of the contextthat they're in.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Absolutely.
A lot of the human behaviorthat we see is due to
environment.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, a thousand percent.
Nature nurture right Greed.
Like any of the work sins thatwe've talked about, it's uber
complex.
It manifests in various ways.
But what's interesting as Meland I were thinking about what
we've experienced as HR leaders,what we know about the research
all of this shit happens on aspectrum.
Okay, greed is no different, solet's talk about it.
(16:02):
What we want to do is talkabout how greed manifests in
individuals, right From the lowend of the spectrum.
What does this look like whenyou're starting to have quote
unquote greedy behaviors?
We'll move up to medium, we'lltalk about high, and then, mel,
what do we end with?
Always Illegal, ah, illegal.
This shit always turns intoillegal.
(16:24):
It does.
Yeah, we like it, bernie Madoff.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So let's.
So we're going to walk youthrough the spectrum and then
we'll also talk about what thefrick do you do about it.
Right Cause, listen, we've allended on the spectrum.
We're all potentially have allbeen victims or bystanders of
the spectrum, so we want to talkabout it.
Let's start with the low wecall petty gains.
At the lowest end of thespectrum, we have petty gains.
At the lowest end of thespectrum, we have petty gains.
(16:50):
These are little, small acts ofself-interest that might give
someone a little benefit butdon't really hurt others in the
organization.
These are super common to havedone this or to witness someone
doing this.
This is things like, forexample, personal use.
Are you using office suppliesfor personal tasks Like printing
(17:11):
?
I have been known to?
I don't know.
Take the postage.
No, who owns a printer anymore?
You've got to print thoseconcert tickets out.
No one owns a printer anymore.
Toner costs more than the damnprinter.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's insane.
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, it's come on, come on, okay.
So this is interesting, though,right.
Yeah, it's come on, come on,Okay.
So this is interesting, though,right.
Personal use Again, we're notimmune.
62% of us admit to doing this.
So, like you're not alone.
If you've done that, I have adrawer of post-its.
I'm not going to tell you whereI got them.
Okay, Timesheet tweaks right.
Slightly adjusting your workhours, maybe adding a few more,
making it look like you worked alittle more right?
(17:46):
40% of us have done this.
Extra perks, you know, takingmore office snacks or resources
I talked about this in gluttony,but I remember when I worked at
a high-tech firm in SiliconValley that held all the
freaking free snacks and thekombucha and all this shit.
I walked into the break roomone night and this person was
(18:08):
loading up a ginormous bag ofsnacks, like she was going
shopping and she's oh, I got topack my kids lunches, really.
And I'm like, is it worth it?
I don't know.
I was just going to Costco andthen I'm like there's the snack
lady.
Every time I saw her, it's fine.
Or performance spin right,adding in a little extra flair
on your achievements 50% ofpeople have done this.
(18:30):
Right, this stuff happens, mel?
Have you ever expressed one ofthese or seen it?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, of course.
Look, I'm not going to give upfree snacks, but I'm not going
to go shopping in the break roomeither.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
A thousand percent, right, listen, the risk factor
here for individuals it's light,right, it's not illegal, it's
not necessarily something thatyou shouldn't be doing at work,
but it's a slippery slope.
Okay, because a it has acultural impact, right.
When we start allowing kind ofthese small selfish behaviors,
(19:03):
it makes them a little bit of anorm and could lead systemically
to bigger problems.
And listen, if you're notapplying rules consistently as
well, it adds to a level offeeling unfair, right?
So it's a little bit of aslippery slope.
Petty gains that's number one,right, let's stop here.
(19:24):
Audience have you ever seenthis?
Any kind of petty gains stuff?
What have you seen?
Have you done it?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
We're the only ones using the printer.
Yeah, I feel like the numberhas got to be higher than just
62% of us using the printer, butanyway, I know, yeah, listen,
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
All right, we're the only ones.
Mel Cheese stands alone.
All right, cheese stands alone.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
All right, okay, okay .
Speaker 1 (19:48):
All right, okay, petty gains low, let's move up
to medium.
Medium is overreach.
This is moving along thespectrum.
This is where we start havingnoticeable and that's a key word
here noticeable self-servingactions that can have moderate
impact on employees, oncolleagues and the org.
It can lead to reduced trust ormorale and really damage your
(20:12):
brand and, honestly, if you arethe victim of it, it just sucks
ass, honestly, truly.
So what does this look like?
What is this?
This is undermining others,right, deliberately undermining
a colleague's work or reputationto advance your own position.
This is playing favorites.
If anybody has been a victim offavoritism, this can absolutely
(20:36):
happen.
Consistently, giving specialtreatment to certain colleagues,
which can cause massiveresentment, or withholding info
or resources this is theFrancesca Ranieri special, which
is you're keeping crucialinformation or resources or your
own skills from colleagues tobenefit yourself.
Yeah, you know this.
(20:56):
When you see it, it is againstarting to be noticeable and it
has an impact on other people,right, for those of you that
have seen this'm curious, haveyou?
What's the impact when thiskind of stuff happens at work?
What have you seen happen whenyou want to?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
talk about that.
Yeah, if you want to come up onstage and share your own story,
please do or dm us, we'll checkthat as well.
I know I've seen this happenbefore.
I've seen people over embellishtheir contribution to a project
, especially when they're inprivate conversations with
leadership and think no one elsecan hear it, and they almost
(21:38):
take credit for the work to getthemselves ahead.
And it's it sucks to see and itsucks to witness when you
experience that, and especiallyif you did the work.
So yeah, I've seen this before.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Especially and also for the kind of the quote
unquote victim of this sin.
It is also just did they just?
What is their intent?
Am I reading it the right way?
Because this is still a littlegray, but you're like that felt
shitty.
I get that my spidey sense isgoing up that this isn't right
or that they're playingfavorites, but maybe I'm right
so maybe I'm wrong.
(22:10):
So it's really gray and thatgray can F with you really big
time.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
The thing is that I think there's a really another
really good example, cause wehad a listener write into us
this week about havingchallenges in stakeholder
meetings where they have acolleague after each.
Everyone has equal timepresenting in front of this
massive stakeholder group at theexecutive level and they have
one, so it's equal time acrossthe team.
(22:36):
But she had mentioned they haveone colleague at the end of
everyone's presentation segment,this one colleague jumps in to
give their own point of view andthen to say I'd like to provide
a little more context.
And I would say that's anotherexample of greediness because
it's trying to get that extraface time, like even that
something that you might thinkis so minor.
(22:57):
It's that grabbing the extraface time or adding context
which infers you may havecontributed to that work somehow
in front of this audience ofpeople.
So overreach is veryself-serving.
But I also think it's verycommon I think people live this
is a very common space toexperience greed in the
workplace.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Can I add another one ?
That just senses me.
Please do what I thinkFrancesca was trying to say oh
yes, have you ever had thathappen to you?
I have had that happen.
What I think, yeah, what Ithink they were trying to say.
I knew what I was trying to saybecause oh yes, have you ever
had that happen?
I have not happened.
What I think, yeah, what Ithink they were trying to say.
I knew what I was trying to say,because I said it, yeah, a
thousand percent, like it's justto your very good point, it is
self-serving, right, it isabsolutely self-serving.
(23:41):
Here's the deal with overreach.
The risk factor goes way uphere because, to your very good
point, mel, we see it, we feelit, we as in plural, your
colleagues, your team, yourpeers, your stakeholders.
I will tell you, if your bossis human centered and someone
that really wants to have ahealthy team, they're going to
(24:02):
see it as well.
Overreach like favoritism orundermining others.
If not, chaps, listen, I willtell you right now.
It leads to low morale.
It can eventually lead tothings like a damaged reputation
, high turnover, toxic workculture if it's really systemic
and for the individuals, thesebehavior can, like strain
(24:24):
relationships, harm yourreputation and hinder your
career growth.
Quite honestly, because I haveled teams where I see this
happen, it's one of the firstthings I want to nip in the bud,
because you don't want thathappening.
But I also question someone'sintegrity when they start doing
that shit Same 100% yeah.
Yeah, overreach, ugh Gross,gross.
(24:45):
We see it all the time thoughright All the time.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think that's the most common thing I've witnessed
.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Jeez, all right.
Low, petty, medium, overreach.
Three Aggressive ambition.
As greed intensifies, it canturn into aggressive ambition.
We're getting high here, people.
Sorry, I lived in Portland, Ishould go.
(25:11):
It means different things.
We're sweating, yeah, sorry,we're getting high on the
spectrum.
Excuse me, this is significantself-serving actions driven by
self-interest that can harm theorganization, that can harm your
colleagues and potentially leadto ethical violations or some
major ass conflicts.
This can look like manipulatingfinancial statements or
(25:33):
accounting practices to showbetter performance than reality.
It can be things likeimplementing risky business
strategies that prioritizeshort-term gains over long-term
stability.
It can look like pressuring thehell out of your team right
Pressuring employees to meetunrealistic targets or engaging
in unethical practices.
This is what it looks like.
(25:55):
Let me ask you this If you'rewondering if you're doing this,
if you're wondering if you'reexperiencing this, here are
three examples that reallyhappen very commonly in real
life.
If you feel like you need toride the hell out of your team
to make yourself look good, ifyou're changing results to make
your performance look betterthan it is, if you're cutting
(26:18):
corners to meet your numbers orgoals, that could put people's
safety at risk and I'm talkingabout psychological safety,
emotional safety, physicalsafety, if you're doing that or
if you're feeling like that ishappening, this is aggressive
ambition.
This is greed right.
(26:39):
Risk factor here goes way upbecause whether you're the
center or you're on thereceiving end of the sin or just
a bystander, this is bad news,it's unhealthy here, because
here's the deal with being inthe high level of this spectrum
You're not rational, you're notthinking in a really rational
way, you're thinking in me,siloed, blinder on focus, and
(27:04):
they're not like if you're thecenter, you're most likely
thinking more about the gainthan you're thinking about the
risks and the impacts as well.
In this stage, this is whereyou become a massive liability
to your company because of thedemonstrated behavior and
because this can againpotentially really be on the
cusp of that illegal.
(27:25):
This is aggressive, it's adanger zone, it's a danger zone.
And number four here iscorporate crime right, illegal,
illegal.
Okay, listen, friends, get yourturtlenecks out.
That's my Theranos joke.
Here's the thing Once someonehas reached this corporate crime
illegal stage, it almostcertainly becomes not only a
(27:48):
liability but illegal right,because it's not only unethical,
it's illegal.
It leads to severe consequencesnot only for the individual,
and I named off right thosefolks that like from Enron and
Wells Fargo and all this goodjazz, but it also has massive
impacts for the organization.
(28:09):
It can look like what happenedat Theranos.
It can look like what happenedat Wells Fargo.
It can look like Bernie Madoff.
Yeah Right, insider trading,embezzlement, fraudulent
financial reporting, acceptingbribes that's all greed, right,
that's all jail time.
So I hope you have, if you'rethe center here, lawyer up,
(28:32):
because you're going to need it.
Let me give you some fun factsabout this too, because I was
like in my one of the thingsyou'll know about Mel and I if
you ever listened to our pod.
I hope you do.
One of the things we love to dois have a conversation about
our own experiences and storiesthat are going on, but we always
love to come with the data aswell, and I was wondering how
many people go to jail for thisshit every single year?
(29:13):
Oh, that's an interesting stat.
What is it of those?
And then, on average, 10 to 15%of those individuals get jail
time.
It's a ends up being about 400to 500 people go to jail for
this every single year.
And if you're yes, and ifyou're wondering, who is it?
Typically this is typicallyfolks that are at the manager
plus level, 29% are at theexecutive level and 29% are at
(29:37):
the manager level, and they'retypically with the organization
more than six years.
Fun facts.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I think the six years thing is like a comfort.
There's like this comfort of athousand percent.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So listen, friends, that's the spectrum.
Right, that's the spectrum.
Here's the deal.
Don't be one of them.
It's not only bad for yourresume, but it's bad for your
organization and bad for yourbrand as well.
We love stories, friends.
I'm wondering curiosity beforewe get into what do you do about
(30:12):
it if you find yourself on thisspectrum?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
What greed situations have you seen?
Yeah, we definitely want tohear that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, we love the good stories.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And it can be anonymous.
This is Vegas in our mind.
I will say this, like I justthink these.
We are starting to see more andmore of this and hopefully this
brings awareness right In ourown.
The goal of this session folks,as a reminder, have a little
fun right, because we know thesetopics.
This stuff happens every singleday and to have an open
dialogue about it is somethingthat we love to do, so
(30:42):
appreciate you joining us.
If you are just joining us,we're at the halfway mark.
I'm Mel and I am Francesca andwe are from your work friends
podcast to HR friends with nofilter, just trying to get you
through all the work shit Beforewe get into what you should do
if you're the center or ifyou're finding yourself on the
(31:02):
sidelines.
Francesca, can I share alistener story that I received?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
this week.
Yeah, yes, and here's the deal,friends.
Every story we're telling youhere is actually real stuff that
happened.
This one, mel, it's a doozy.
It's a doozy.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, it escalated quickly.
So, look, I have to give youthe very high level version of
this story.
Because of our time, I havenamed this the ambition trap.
And look, folks, names havebeen changed here.
It's anonymous, but ourlisteners did write in a story
this week and they were thebystander of this story.
(31:45):
It involved their closecolleagues and peers, but they
thought this is a really goodexample because they felt this
could happen to anybody.
No one's immune, right.
So key players, hopefully get apen and paper.
Write it down if you want tokeep track of who these key
players are.
try and keep it short, all right.
There is Alex, who thislistener noted was a mid-level
(32:06):
manager at the company, superambitious, determined to get to
a top leadership position.
Had been there funnily enough,francesca for seven years, so
right over that six-year markSix-year age.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
They're like I'm telling, telling you there's
something happening there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
We got to do some more studying on that.
There's Beth.
Beth is Alex's mentor.
She's a well-respected leaderin this org.
She was known for really beinga no nonsense leader who was
very big on team integrity likeintegrity and her brand
connected to that for the peoplewho worked for her.
There's James.
(32:44):
James was Alex's colleague andfriend, more of a go with the
flow teammate, also successful.
Didn't outwardly displayambition, though this.
We have co-workers like.
Some people are just like yeah,whatever, I'm here to get paid,
thanks.
And then Sarah this is a smallcompany, by the way, I would say
it was less than 1,000 people.
(33:04):
So the CEO of this startup.
She's sharp, direct, known forbeing really strict on policy,
just given where they were intheir startup business.
So let me share the beginning.
So let's get back to Alex, thatmanager super ambitious Alex.
Over here.
Alex had been described asalways being ambitious.
Since joining this company, hehad his eyes set on reaching the
(33:27):
top.
His mentor, beth, admired hisdrive, often cautioned him about
the perils of overreaching,especially when she caught him
doing it right.
So we're talking about thatmedium end of the spectrum where
a lot of people sit quitehonestly in this behavior, and
so they consistently hadconversations around his
(33:49):
overreaching and where thatmight be leading.
Alex's colleague James, themore laid back friend, really
preferred more of a steady climbover a meteoric rise as opposed
to Alex, so he wasn't reallywith Alex on a lot of these
efforts.
The company was preparing,though, for a major merger,
because now they were about togrow, they were getting acquired
(34:11):
.
This was a huge deal, and Alexsaw this as his golden
opportunity to make his mark.
How do I this merger'shappening?
How do I get there quick?
How do I get to this leadershipspot more quickly?
Right, standing apart fromeverybody To impress the higher
ups here, alex started small,taking a few extra hours of
(34:32):
resource time to support some ofthe projects that they needed
to complete.
He was exaggerating hiscontributions in team meetings
dumb things like minor thingsthat we just talked about, so
things that usually go unnoticed, but it gave him the small edge
over his colleagues.
Bragging about recognition hewas receiving for the work he
didn't directly do beyonddelegating started to cause
(34:55):
minor resentment among his peers, but nothing that seemed too
serious just yet.
Morale was still fine.
People were still buzzingaround.
It was fine.
What this person noted to mewas that Alex began to cultivate
relationships with thehigher-ups, often volunteering
for high-visibility projects toposition himself as
indispensable for this merger.
(35:16):
He often spoke over hiscolleagues in meetings and his
ambition began to strain hisrelationships with James and
Beth, who felt increasinglysidelined by some of his
aggressive tactics.
So they're just saying.
As time moved on, as this mergergot closer, alex really started
to amp up this behavior.
(35:37):
As the merger approached, more,everything escalated.
He began inflating his expensereports slightly, justifying it
as a means to better network andsecure future deals for the
merger.
He also started fully takingcredit for some of the team's
achievements when he was inone-on-ones with new leadership,
overshadowing the contributionsof his colleagues like James.
(36:00):
James finally, fed up, tried totalk to Alex about it, but Alex
brushed him off, believing hewas just simply being strategic.
And if James was smart, he saidhe would do the same.
That was his guidance.
How would you feel if someonesaid that to you?
If you were smart, you would dothe same.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I would.
First of all, I'm a big fan ofbeing leading with kindness, but
when you need to do a periodicpunch, that's not a bad thing,
but I think the important thingto note here is look, merger
happening.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Sometimes, with mergers, layoffs happen.
Right, you're fighting for yourspot.
What's your future look like?
So you can start to see thedifference in how that
environment impacted someonelike Alex versus someone like
James, and James seemed to havea little more control here,
right when Alex is starting tospiral out a bit.
(36:50):
Look, as I mentioned, alex feltafter all, what's the big deal?
Our jobs are on the line here,potentially, and I need to get I
want that spot.
Eventually, though, alex beganmisusing company funds.
They started reallocating somebudget monies to their specific
(37:11):
projects, cutting some of theresources for others.
He was pushing the team totheir limits, often demanding
long hours without propercompensation to complete things
for new leadership, all thosevisible projects he was signing
up for.
He wasn't doing the work.
He was stealing resources andhaving them do it without
properly checking in with histeam, and he wasn't even asking
(37:33):
his other teammates if he couldtake some of their resources
away from other competing work,putting them in a compromising
position.
Beth, his mentor, noticed thischange in Alex.
She shared her concern for himand she warned him that his
behavior was starting to reallyimpact team morale but also
business, because he was takingresources away from people with
(37:55):
other priority projects.
He was putting theirreputations on the line but also
impacting business deliverablesand deadlines.
He ultimately brushed her off.
He brushed her concerns off andhe was convinced that what he
was doing was necessary tosucceed.
Unfortunately for him, thefinal straw came when Alex
(38:17):
falsified some financial reportsto make his department appear
more profitable to seniorleadership, hoping again that
this was going to secure himthat senior position.
Post merger.
He also started accepting somebribes and kickbacks from
vendors that he was working with, looking to secure contracts in
the new corporate structurethrough some of those projects
(38:39):
that he volunteered on right.
And Alex wasn't being exactlyquiet about it.
Unfortunately, he was braggingto some of the overworked team
about the personal financialgains he was making and would
make with those vendor kickbacksonce the merger took place
(39:00):
would make with those vendorkickbacks.
Once the merger took place,beth started to hear those
whispers obviously becausepeople talk and Alex his
activities kicked off aninternal investigation.
As I mentioned, beth was knownfor no nonsense and had zero
tolerance for this unethicalbehavior.
So the investigation quicklygathered evidence against Alex,
revealing the extent of all ofhis activities where he was and
(39:23):
this level of greed and ambition.
So here's the deal Alexreceived an invite to meet with
Beth and the CEO, sarah, forwhat he thought would be an
announcement of a promotion, butinstead he found himself in a
meeting with Sarah, beth and nowAndy, the HRBP.
They were there to have aconversation about the evidence
(39:45):
they found supporting what theysuspected was criminal activity
and unethical behavior thatcould have hurt the merger and
the organization.
I'm going to share more aboutthe outcome of what happened
here with Alex in just a second,but first we'd love to hear
from you in a pulse check whatdo you think about this
situation, what do you think mayhave happened next and what
(40:09):
would you do if you foundyourself in this situation or
any other area of the space ofgreed?
You can come off mute, you cancome up on stage, you can send
us a DM and while we wait foryour stories, I'm going to move
on to what you should do.
We discussed upfront.
This stuff happens on aspectrum.
What defines what you should donext requires you to really
(40:30):
take a look at the spectrum thatwe outlined, and we'll post
this for you folks.
You'll have access and decidewhere does your unique situation
fall, where is your behavior orwhat are you witnessing?
So if you find yourself on thatlow end of the spectrum here,
petty gains.
If you're the center, listen,we get it.
Petty gains is pretty common.
(40:51):
After all, we're human.
You just don't want to get intothe habit of petty gains
because that quickly moves youinto riskier business.
Now is a perfect time to pauseand reflect.
If you find yourself in thisspace and really asking yourself
why am I doing this?
Why am I printing my concerttickets every month off at the
(41:12):
printer?
Dumb things, right.
Just pause and reflect here,guys.
If you're on the sidelines soyou're the victim, or you're an
indirect observer of thisactivity, look.
If it's your work, friend, andyou notice a pattern and you
feel comfortable chatting withthem about it, then do so, but
only if you're comfortable.
You're ultimately notresponsible for other people's
(41:33):
behavior here, so you're notobligated to do anything.
If you find yourself in themedium space, remember medium
overreach and overreach is apretty common space to
experience, whether you're thecenter or you're on the
sidelines it's time to really doa gut check.
This stage seems innocentenough, but it's not without its
(41:54):
own impact.
So, if you're the center,recognize triggers cultural
pressures, time pressure,external pressures, attitudes
about success and self-worththese are typically the root of
why someone might begin to dothings like undermine others'
achievements, play favorites onprojects, but this isn't okay
(42:17):
and you're going to start todestroy not only your reputation
here but also negatively impactthe organization.
If you're oh yeah, go ahead.
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
It just feels like shit when you're doing it.
It feels like shit.
It is a much better feeling Ifyou want to be self centered.
It's much better feeling tohelp somebody out or to have a
communal, collaborative view.
It feels like caca, even thougheven if you feel like you need
to, or you want to afterwardsyeah, I think it's such a good
call out.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It never feels good.
It never feels good.
That's a.
I think that's a recognizabletrigger, though Do you feel good
about it?
If not, maybe it's greed.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Look at you, mel Look at you.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's a good, it's grief.
Look at you, mel.
Look at you.
It's a good call out for you.
If you're the victim at thisstage right, because I think we
likely have all been the sinnerand we've all been the victim of
the sin I think that's a fairstatement.
If you're the victim here, youmight first consider talking to
the sinner, especially ifthey're undermining your work or
passing you over on projects ortaking resources from you.
(43:20):
But and this is a but if youdon't believe you can have a
constructive conversation, werecommend speaking with a mentor
or a leader for support orguidance at a minimum.
And if that doesn't workbecause maybe they have a leader
who's playing favorites, thenby all means reach out to HR for
(43:41):
further support and guidancehere.
And if you're on the sidelines,if you're witnessing this happen
but it isn't directly impactingyou, you really have two big
three options here.
If you know the center and youfeel comfortable chatting with
them about what you're observing, do so.
If you witness it for example,someone's taking credit for
someone else's work in a meetingspeak up.
(44:01):
Support the person that is thevictim of the sin here.
You can do that in aprofessional way.
I'll just give an example forcredit stealing in meetings.
Right, you might say thanks forsharing your input here, but,
jane, you also contributed tothis output.
What do you think there areways to help someone out in this
situation?
(44:22):
And three, if you don't feelcomfortable with those two
options, you can always go tothe leader to share feedback and
get support.
Again, you are not obligated todo anything.
Do what you're comfortable with.
We're just sharing some options.
If you're in the high zone andyou're watching this from the
sidelines as your friend orteammate is reaching aggressive
(44:43):
ambition, you want to considerthis.
If you're the center, just stop, kaput, kaput, kaput, kaput,
kaput, stop, just stop.
Not a good look for you andit's certainly not a good
environment for your team, foryour colleagues, for you.
At a minimum, you'recompromising others for your own
(45:05):
personal gain and at a maximum,you're also starting to get
into some potentially borderlineillegal activity or HR
violations in this space.
If you're on the sidelines,report it, report it to their
leader, report it to HR anddocument.
That's all you're obligated todo.
And if things aren't checked inthe high zone here, or if
(45:27):
nothing changes, we're reachingcorporate crimes and I hope you
have money for an attorneybecause you've entered illegal.
If you're the sinner, youreally need to get it together
and we hope you have money for alawyer in unemployment, because
this is really hard to recoverfrom and you don't ever, you
don't ever want to find yourselfhere again, mad off anyone.
(45:49):
Bueller, just putting it outthere.
If you're on the sidelines,look, we hope you're never on
the sidelines of criminalactivity.
We hope you're never on thesidelines of criminal activity
and we hope that you recognizedit early enough and started to
report it or address it once yousaw it in the overreach stage,
especially if you're on thesidelines.
But if you weren't and you findyourself on the sidelines at
(46:13):
the corporate crime level,immediately report this to HR.
We do not recommend everconfronting the sinner in this
scenario.
It is potentially not a safething to do because they're in a
space of delusion, they're notthinking or acting rationally
and it's likely actions out ofdesperation and you don't want
to be in the crosshairs of thatever.
(46:34):
I want to finish up our storywith Alex.
We have just a few minutes hereleft by chance.
Does anyone have any thoughtson where they feel Alex ended up
on the spectrum?
Or do you have anyrecommendations for Beth or Alex
?
We'd love to hear your thoughts.
While you're thinking aboutthat, I'm going to share the
(46:57):
real outcome here.
So what our listener shared withus was and just a refresher
when we left off Alex, he was inwith Sarah, the CEO, beth, his
mentor, andy, hrbp, for what hethought was a promotion
discussion, but instead Andylaid out the details of their
(47:18):
evidence.
Alex was given a choice hecould resign quietly or face
legal consequences, and he choseto resign.
His once bright future, acompany that he invested seven
years of his life into, is nowin shambles, and as he packed
his belongings, he saw Jameswatching him a look of pity.
Beth was standing nearby.
(47:40):
Her expression was hard to read, but he realized he lost
everything by letting greed forsuccess get the best of him.
This listener shared with usthat she felt this was a really
good cautionary tale within thecompany, and it was a reminder
for how unchecked ambition andgreed could lead to someone's
downfall, no matter howpromising their start.
And Alex's journey as a lessonto others here is highlighting
(48:04):
the importance of integrity andethical behavior, especially in
the pursuit of success.
Your success can also shine onothers and you don't have to do
this route to get to success.
I will say, about a year laterthey all ran into Alex at a
conference which got superawkward, francesca it always
does when you're like, oh yeah.
(48:24):
Yeah, she said they ran into him, made some small talk.
He was noting how he was theirnetwork.
He was still unemployed.
Although he couldn't prove it,he was certain that what
happened must have gotten out,because anytime he entered final
rounds within his industry forinterviews, he was eventually
passed over.
Beth noted they declined dinnerwith Alex.
(48:46):
They're nervous aboutassociating with him, quite
honestly, after what he'd doneand they just they didn't want
to.
They just lost trust in him,respect in him and didn't want
to spend time with him.
So again, no winners in thissituation, and it's just a quick
example of how greed can reallyescalate pretty quickly.
I know we have about fiveminutes left here.
(49:07):
Oh, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, five minutes lefthere, oh go ahead.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I saw here I don't know if Harry's
still on, but I saw his hand goup, so I didn't know if he
wanted to put his hand back upand come up on stage.
I think maybe Harry might'veleft.
They didn't call me up, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I missed you, harry.
That's my bad, harry, but wehad a few questions come in too,
but if you have any questions.
Raise your hand, we'll put youup.
Oh, what questions did you get?
Okay, it feels like corporatesets us up to get at least
overreach mode in order tosucceed, do you?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
agree?
All right, I'll share mypersonal opinion.
I think it can.
Yeah, yeah, depending on.
Sometimes it depends on theorganization and the culture
that's there.
Sometimes it depends on theteam that you end up on.
There's so many externalcomponents that can put you in
the mode of overreach for likealmost like a survival space,
(50:03):
right?
What do you think?
Francesca?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I think this happens a lot,right, Especially when you have
an organization that is highlycompetitive, or if you're an
organization that's like up orout or highly political to your
point.
This is the culture is going tostoke that, for sure, for sure.
Yeah, I think when you're inflatter organizations, when
you're in organizations thathave like more human centered
(50:28):
leaders, that are really big oncoaching and feedback and all
that good jazz less, butcertainly the organizations that
I've been at, yeah, absolutely,I agree.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I always go back to what I think is a super handy
tool.
It's like that what is it?
The circle of control, sowhat's in your control versus
what's out of your control.
And I think it goes back towhat recognizing those triggers
then.
So you're not in overreach mode, what's triggering that in you
and how can you manage that?
I think it's, if you can focuson what's in your control, it
(51:02):
will help you stay safe and outof that mode.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, I'll tell you too the other thing not to be
super TMI and personal, but I'mgoing to go here when I find my
yeah, and then, when I was six,yeah, no.
But I find myself when I'm inoverreach, where I'm feeling it
right, where I'm about to do it.
I to your point, I'm likechecking myself, and a lot of
times it's because I'm in a fearstate or in this survival state
(51:27):
, and what I know about myselfis I need to get out of fear and
get into the sound super cheese, but like love mode, if you
will.
So it's or more of likecollaboration or no.
The goal is this.
The goal is not me, or winningor zero sum.
It is on team, because mynatural proclivity sometimes is
any means necessary.
That's not right.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
That's just human behavior, though I think that's
like a natural place to be.
Yeah, I think.
Oh, we got another question inhere too.
I got a DM that says I have acolleague who is trying to
assert themselves on a project.
They just joined, but theyhaven't been a part of this from
the start, which was a year ago.
They often speak over otherwork stream leads in the meeting
(52:12):
and it's clear they're tryingto make a play to take this
project over.
There's growing resentment onthe team, but this person is a
leadership darling and we feelthey're untouchable.
What can we do here?
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah that's a gnarly one.
Yeah, I have found in thesesituations one of two things
typically happens a that personcrashes and burns really quickly
because they're a talker.
They're not necessarily a doerright, so give it six months and
come back to me and tell mewhat happened.
(52:46):
This gets a little politicalsometimes because if they're a
leadership darling, you gotta.
That's a yeah that's a littlebit tough, I think, if you can
talk to a mentor or a coach tosee what you can do there to
navigate that situation.
But I wouldn't.
I wouldn't confront that personnecessarily.
I'd be leaning on your ownnetwork and your own mentors,
mel, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yeah, I would do that .
I think that's the same thing.
I would recommend the samething, especially given the
darling.
Yeah, that's like yeah Tough,it's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
The other thing is you might not know what you
might not know.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I also.
I think you're right wherepeople will crash and burn if
they don't have what it takes.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Every time people come in with pot for ammo and
they don't do the work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Great questions.
Greed, greed happens.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Subscribe.
Wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can come over and say hi tous.
On the TikToks and LinkedIncommunity.
It is up at yourworkfriendscom.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
We're always posting stuff on there and if you found
this episode helpful, share withyour work friends.
Thanks, friend.
Hey friends, it's Francesca.
Can I ask you a favor?
Can you fill out a quick surveyfor us to tell us how we're
doing on the pod?
Mel and I are finishing ourfirst season.
We've loved, loved doing thepod, but we're kind of wondering
how we do it.
What do you like, what don'tyou like?
What are your ideas for a show?
We want to hear it.
We put a link to the survey inthe show notes.
(00:21):
So if you could help us out,fill it out and maybe we'll send
you some merch.
Okay, thanks Bye.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hopefully this is a light addition to your Wednesday
afternoon.
That's what we intended to be.
What do you think, Francesca?
That's what we're hoping.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Listen, we're all wrapping up July.
I can't believe it's frickingJuly 31st.
I know we got five months left,folks this year, five months.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Unreal.
It's going to be good, takethat trip, get to the beach, do
what?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
you need to do, you need to do yeah, yeah.
You got a goal.
You got any goals that youhaven't accomplished this year,
mel, of course.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, I'm just going to pretend that it's not
happening.
No, just kidding.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Today I'm like maybe I should start to learn Italian.
It's on my bucket list, it's onmine too.
Do you want to do it together?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
We should do it, I'll do it together All right, yeah,
there you go, that's good,that's good.
All right, Well enough Italianfor the day, hey friends.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah, ciao, friends, friends, it is officially in the
US, and what better way to takea fun, lighthearted midweek
break with us and from work totalk about all the work shit
that we never talk about?
I'm Francesca and I'm Mel andwe've been working in HR for Mel
(01:56):
.
Let's do the math a long time,mel.
How long have you been workingin HR?
Over 20 years now, yeah, yeah,yeah, I just hit my two decade
mark, so we've seen a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
We have we certainly have, and we've heard a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
We've heard a lot.
And here's the deal, friends.
If you want the good stories,ask someone in HR, because we've
seen it all and we've heard itall.
Like the amount of storieswhere I'm just like you gotta be
freaking, kidding me, youdidn't watch.
I have a whole plethora.
I quite fine, it's quite fine.
(02:33):
But the thing is, a few monthsago, mel and I started a podcast
because we wanted to talk aboutit all.
It's called your work friends.
It's on all the platforms andlisten, we're just two HR
friends, we have zero nit filter, which you will hear on this
call, and, honestly, our goal iswe want to help you get through
all the work shit.
There are some rules of thegame, there's shit going on and
(02:54):
we want to get you through itand get you through it in the
best way possible so you thrive.
But the thing is, throughoutour experience, there's an
interesting thing that hasremained true that there are
things that really frickin' trippeople up at work and sometimes
totally destroy careers.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
What really messes people up, it's that raw human
emotion that no one ever talksabout the sins, if you will, as
we're calling this series andlisten.
We all experience them fromtime to time.
Francesca and I totally have.
We make fun of each other forit and we call each other out
(03:40):
for it sometimes.
But if you don't handle theseemotions well, man, can they be
real deal breakers handle theseemotions well, man, can they be
real deal breakers?
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's right.
So in this series we're callingthe seven deadly work sins.
We're covering everything andwe've already covered.
This summer We've been graciousenough and had the best
opportunity to be with Fishbowlto talk about the seven deadly
sins, one every other week, andwe've covered things like lust,
wrath, pride.
You can find those recordingson Fishbowl or on your work
friends as well.
(04:09):
But today, mel, what are wetalking about?
Money, money, no, greed Cashrules everything around me Crude
, no yeah thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Sorry for the reference guys.
Yeah, thank you for gettingthat, Mel.
Big greed, Big greed.
We see a lot of greed out there.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Greed yeah, we see it in the news all the time.
Theranos, Wells Fargo andsometimes the biggest instances
of corporate greed in the last25 years can be traced back to
actions of specific individuals.
Right, we see it in the newsand the companies.
But let me tell you, friends,it comes down to individual
(04:49):
behaviors that really triporganizations up.
Enron, you can trace back tothree people Kenneth Lay,
Jeffrey Skilling and AndrewFaslow.
Volkswagen, Oliver Schmidt, gotthrown in jail for it.
That Martin Shreckley, that guyinterning for pharmaceuticals,
(05:09):
Speaking of Wu-Tang, didn't hebuy the Wu-Tang album?
He did, he did.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
Just Wu-Tang is a theme for this today.
But here's the deal.
All of these big corporatecases can be traced back to
individual behaviors, becausegreed happens at the individual
level, and even this week wehave podcast listeners that
write in.
All the time we ask for storiesabout how people have
(05:35):
experienced all of these sins,and just this week two podcast
listeners wrote in with thesestories.
Again, that happened at theindividual level.
An employee at a mid-sizedcompany got canned for
chronically inflating theirexpenses, things like travel and
meal expenses.
Each instance seemed minor.
The cumulative effect resultwas $3,200 of unwarranted
(06:00):
unreimbursed over time.
Okay, so this guy got cannedfor basically $3,200.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
What a way like.
Come on for the.
I'm not worth it.
Come on.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Here's another one.
A project manager at a techstartup completely crashed his
brand for manipulatingperformance metrics to make
their project appear moresuccessful than it was.
Overstated completionpercentages, underreported
issues to secure additionalfunding for personal recognition
and to make sure that theproject and the company knew how
(06:35):
well he was doing even thoughhe wasn't.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
Oh geez yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
This stuff happens all the time and we have our own
stories.
Mel, have you experienced greedin?
Speaker 2 (06:46):
the workplace.
Yeah, yeah, I think on a moreminor level, directly, I've
witnessed greediness with I'lljust put it like with resources
in work before.
So especially during volatiletimes when the market wasn't
good and layoffs are happening,I've really I witnessed two
folks specifically who I workedwith, but I was on the
(07:07):
peripheral competing one for thesame project work, so trying to
do like work grabs and then tocompeting for the same resources
to do that work and on calls,one of them would consistently
try to undermine the other andvice versa and as a bystander it
was like honestly justexhausting to watch and listen
(07:27):
to and in hindsight I know theclimate seemed to bring out the
worst in the both of thembecause that truly wasn't who
they were.
It was all fear driven.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
But that and that's on the more minor side of the
greed- yeah, listen, what'sinteresting in all of these
situations, and why we call thisthe seven deadly work sins, is
because there's always a victimof someone sinning, like Mel saw
this right, she saw it, she sawwhat was going on.
And then there's also thesinner.
(07:58):
And I've experienced this as asinner, this as a center.
Yeah, listen, I'm not perfect.
I'm in my forties and realizeI'm not perfect.
That sucks, that's a shittyrealization.
But listen, friends, it happensto all of us.
And I will say, early in mycareer, reflecting back on, have
(08:19):
I been greedy at work?
When have I been greedy?
And I think the thing thatreally for me, that I did was I
withhold information, thinkingit would help me get ahead.
Right, I have a certain levelof expertise in a few things and
I would hold back sharing myexpertise with my peers because
I always thought I'd have a legup if they didn't know certain
(08:42):
things or if I had thisinformation that they wouldn't
have.
And that's a form of greed,because I'm not willing to help
you, because I need to make surethat I get this for myself.
Yeah, it's the self-servingstuff.
Yeah, so it happens, right,greed, we all know it, right,
mel, and I know it, if you arewondering, if you're feeling it.
(09:06):
It feels like this it's likethat nothing is ever good enough
and you need more.
You need the title, the money,the accolades.
Maybe you take full credit forthe team project to promote
yourself.
Or maybe you find yourselfunwilling to share information
with that one colleague becauseyou don't want to have that leg
up on you.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, Francesca.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I don't know, maybe you need to figure it out, god.
I'm such a little asshole.
Sometimes you live, you learn,you live, you learn.
Or maybe you find yourselfbeing talked over in meetings
and not getting the credit youdeserve, right Sinner and victim
of the sin At work.
Greed shows itself in a lot ofdifferent ways, and we want to
(09:47):
talk about it today with you howyou can recognize it, how you
can manage it and what to do ifyou're the victim of someone
else's sin.
So buckle up.
Here's what we're going to do.
We're going to cover how youcan recognize it again and how
you can manage it.
One of the things that we arereally loving is hearing from
(10:10):
all of you, hearing your stories.
Throughout our series to peoplehave come up on stage and
talked about their experience,either as a sinner or as the
victim of a sin or a bystander,like when you're just seeing it
in your company and you're likewhat the hell's going on.
So we're going to pauseperiodically and see do you want
to talk about it?
Come on up on stage, and at theend, we'll leave some time for
(10:33):
Q and A, right?
So if you have questions aboutgreed, you can anonymously DM us
or you can come up on stage.
I think if you come up on stage, though.
We see your name so it's notanonymous, just FYI.
Sound good.
Yeah, let's do this, let's doit.
So let's talk about greed.
Many of the problems that weface in business and in the
(10:54):
world today stem from greed,either on the employer's end or
on the employee's end.
Right, greed is really, itfeels like more and more,
especially now.
Right, there's this kind oftone in the news where
businesses feel very greedy andthen we also feel like it's
happening individually.
(11:15):
What's interesting is, 99.9% ofus have experienced greed at
work, either as an individual orjust being in a company.
Here's some examples.
For example, wage theft.
The Economic Policy Institutetalked about how wage theft
costs US workers more than $15billion a year on things like
(11:39):
unpaid overtime, minimum wageviolations.
Do you remember, mel, when weinterviewed Attorney Ryan on the
pod talking about lawyering upand he said the number one thing
that is totally systemic, morecases than ever is wage theft.
Wage theft it's the number onething.
Employee theft on theindividual side, businesses lose
(12:01):
an estimated 5% of their annualrevenues to employee fraud and
theft.
That costs the US economy about$50 billion annually.
Yikes.
Let's talk about executivecompensation.
This is a thorn in my side.
But what's really interesting,economic Policy Institute CEO
compensation, which includesstock options at large US
(12:23):
companies, increased by 1,167%between 1978 and 2019, compared
to a 14% increase in workercompensation.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Think about that that's me.
It's so ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
It's insane.
That's a 320 to 1 rate ratio.
That's insane.
That's insane.
And burnout and overwork, Greedone of the things, from a
company perspective, rightMaking your employees work more
because you want more.
Deloitte, 77% of professionalsexperience burnout at their
(13:02):
current job because they haveunmanageable workloads.
This element of greed is justhappening all around us, again
on the employee and on theemployer side.
So what is greed?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Mel, what do you think?
Well, I wanted to add to thatbecause we did that special too
on even the taking advantage ofsalaried workers.
Right, and I know they justrecently did that bump in the
certain level of salariedworkers that get overtime pay.
But when you really calculatethe average number of hours that
people are working at thesalary level and how much
they're missing out oncompensation, that's just
(13:36):
another example of contributingto burnout and not getting
compensated for it.
Lots of greed happening Greedof time, people's time.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Excellent point.
We're seeing this all the time,freaking grease with the six
day work week, right?
Yeah, no thanks, yeah, come on,come on, yeah.
What is greed?
What is greed?
We know it when we see it, wethink we know what this is, but
the origins of both employer andemployee greed are the same.
You're wanting more than youdeserve, right?
(14:07):
Okay.
For employers, this looks likesqueezing every last drop out of
your employees without faircompensation or care for their
wellbeing.
For employees, this meansdisproportionately prioritizing
their compensation over creatingvalue for the company.
Okay, and there are three mainfactors that drive greed in the
(14:27):
workplace.
There are more, by the way.
It is a very multifaceted viewof what causes greed, but in the
workplace typically, whatdrives it?
One, corporate culture when youhave a culture that's focused
on profit maximization,aggressive reward systems, you
can incentivize unethicalbehavior really quickly, right?
(14:50):
Absolutely, we've seen it.
Q in Wells Fargo.
Yeah, pressure to performunrealistic performance targets,
job insecurity we all see it.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
This happens especially after layoffs or when
there's rumblings that they'regoing to happen.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, yeah, and leadership and role models.
Listen, if you're seeing yourleaders have, quote unquote,
greedy behavior, any kind oflack of accountability, it's
going to create an environmentwhere unethical actions are more
likely to occur.
So it's again if it's in thesystem, if it's in the air, it's
more likely to happen.
(15:26):
I have seen, quote unquote,good people make the shittiest
decisions because of the contextthat they're in.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
Absolutely.
A lot of the human behaviorthat we see is due to
environment.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, a thousand percent.
Nature nurture right Greed.
Like any of the work sins thatwe've talked about, it's uber
complex.
It manifests in various ways.
But what's interesting as Meland I were thinking about what
we've experienced as HR leaders,what we know about the research
all of this shit happens on aspectrum.
Okay, greed is no different, solet's talk about it.
(16:02):
What we want to do is talkabout how greed manifests in
individuals, right From the lowend of the spectrum.
What does this look like whenyou're starting to have quote
unquote greedy behaviors?
We'll move up to medium, we'lltalk about high, and then, mel,
what do we end with?
Always Illegal, ah, illegal.
This shit always turns intoillegal.
(16:24):
It does.
Yeah, we like it, bernie Madoff.
There you go.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, there you go.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
So let's.
So we're going to walk youthrough the spectrum and then
we'll also talk about what thefrick do you do about it.
Right Cause, listen, we've allended on the spectrum.
We're all potentially have allbeen victims or bystanders of
the spectrum, so we want to talkabout it.
Let's start with the low wecall petty gains.
At the lowest end of thespectrum, we have petty gains.
At the lowest end of thespectrum, we have petty gains.
(16:50):
These are little, small acts ofself-interest that might give
someone a little benefit butdon't really hurt others in the
organization.
These are super common to havedone this or to witness someone
doing this.
This is things like, forexample, personal use.
Are you using office suppliesfor personal tasks Like printing
(17:11):
?
I have been known to?
I don't know.
Take the postage.
No, who owns a printer anymore?
You've got to print thoseconcert tickets out.
No one owns a printer anymore.
Toner costs more than the damnprinter.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's insane.
It's insane.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Yeah, it's come on, come on, okay.
So this is interesting, though,right.
Yeah, it's come on, come on,Okay.
So this is interesting, though,right.
Personal use Again, we're notimmune.
62% of us admit to doing this.
So, like you're not alone.
If you've done that, I have adrawer of post-its.
I'm not going to tell you whereI got them.
Okay, Timesheet tweaks right.
Slightly adjusting your workhours, maybe adding a few more,
making it look like you worked alittle more right?
(17:46):
40% of us have done this.
Extra perks, you know, takingmore office snacks or resources
I talked about this in gluttony,but I remember when I worked at
a high-tech firm in SiliconValley that held all the
freaking free snacks and thekombucha and all this shit.
I walked into the break roomone night and this person was
(18:08):
loading up a ginormous bag ofsnacks, like she was going
shopping and she's oh, I got topack my kids lunches, really.
And I'm like, is it worth it?
I don't know.
I was just going to Costco andthen I'm like there's the snack
lady.
Every time I saw her, it's fine.
Or performance spin right,adding in a little extra flair
on your achievements 50% ofpeople have done this.
(18:30):
Right, this stuff happens, mel?
Have you ever expressed one ofthese or seen it?
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Yeah, of course.
Look, I'm not going to give upfree snacks, but I'm not going
to go shopping in the break roomeither.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
A thousand percent, right, listen, the risk factor
here for individuals it's light,right, it's not illegal, it's
not necessarily something thatyou shouldn't be doing at work,
but it's a slippery slope.
Okay, because a it has acultural impact, right.
When we start allowing kind ofthese small selfish behaviors,
(19:03):
it makes them a little bit of anorm and could lead systemically
to bigger problems.
And listen, if you're notapplying rules consistently as
well, it adds to a level offeeling unfair, right?
So it's a little bit of aslippery slope.
Petty gains that's number one,right, let's stop here.
(19:24):
Audience have you ever seenthis?
Any kind of petty gains stuff?
What have you seen?
Have you done it?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
We're the only ones using the printer.
Yeah, I feel like the numberhas got to be higher than just
62% of us using the printer, butanyway, I know, yeah, listen,
I'll tell you that.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
All right, we're the only ones.
Mel Cheese stands alone.
All right, cheese stands alone.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
All right, okay, okay .
Speaker 1 (19:48):
All right, okay, petty gains low, let's move up
to medium.
Medium is overreach.
This is moving along thespectrum.
This is where we start havingnoticeable and that's a key word
here noticeable self-servingactions that can have moderate
impact on employees, oncolleagues and the org.
It can lead to reduced trust ormorale and really damage your
(20:12):
brand and, honestly, if you arethe victim of it, it just sucks
ass, honestly, truly.
So what does this look like?
What is this?
This is undermining others,right, deliberately undermining
a colleague's work or reputationto advance your own position.
This is playing favorites.
If anybody has been a victim offavoritism, this can absolutely
(20:36):
happen.
Consistently, giving specialtreatment to certain colleagues,
which can cause massiveresentment, or withholding info
or resources this is theFrancesca Ranieri special, which
is you're keeping crucialinformation or resources or your
own skills from colleagues tobenefit yourself.
Yeah, you know this.
(20:56):
When you see it, it is againstarting to be noticeable and it
has an impact on other people,right, for those of you that
have seen this'm curious, haveyou?
What's the impact when thiskind of stuff happens at work?
What have you seen happen whenyou want to?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
talk about that.
Yeah, if you want to come up onstage and share your own story,
please do or dm us, we'll checkthat as well.
I know I've seen this happenbefore.
I've seen people over embellishtheir contribution to a project
, especially when they're inprivate conversations with
leadership and think no one elsecan hear it, and they almost
(21:38):
take credit for the work to getthemselves ahead.
And it's it sucks to see and itsucks to witness when you
experience that, and especiallyif you did the work.
So yeah, I've seen this before.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Especially and also for the kind of the quote
unquote victim of this sin.
It is also just did they just?
What is their intent?
Am I reading it the right way?
Because this is still a littlegray, but you're like that felt
shitty.
I get that my spidey sense isgoing up that this isn't right
or that they're playingfavorites, but maybe I'm right
so maybe I'm wrong.
(22:10):
So it's really gray and thatgray can F with you really big
time.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
The thing is that I think there's a really another
really good example, cause wehad a listener write into us
this week about havingchallenges in stakeholder
meetings where they have acolleague after each.
Everyone has equal timepresenting in front of this
massive stakeholder group at theexecutive level and they have
one, so it's equal time acrossthe team.
(22:36):
But she had mentioned they haveone colleague at the end of
everyone's presentation segment,this one colleague jumps in to
give their own point of view andthen to say I'd like to provide
a little more context.
And I would say that's anotherexample of greediness because
it's trying to get that extraface time, like even that
something that you might thinkis so minor.
(22:57):
It's that grabbing the extraface time or adding context
which infers you may havecontributed to that work somehow
in front of this audience ofpeople.
So overreach is veryself-serving.
But I also think it's verycommon I think people live this
is a very common space toexperience greed in the
workplace.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Can I add another one ?
That just senses me.
Please do what I thinkFrancesca was trying to say oh
yes, have you ever had thathappen to you?
I have had that happen.
What I think, yeah, what Ithink they were trying to say.
I knew what I was trying to saybecause oh yes, have you ever
had that happen?
I have not happened.
What I think, yeah, what Ithink they were trying to say.
I knew what I was trying to say,because I said it, yeah, a
thousand percent, like it's justto your very good point, it is
self-serving, right, it isabsolutely self-serving.
(23:41):
Here's the deal with overreach.
The risk factor goes way uphere because, to your very good
point, mel, we see it, we feelit, we as in plural, your
colleagues, your team, yourpeers, your stakeholders.
I will tell you, if your bossis human centered and someone
that really wants to have ahealthy team, they're going to
(24:02):
see it as well.
Overreach like favoritism orundermining others.
If not, chaps, listen, I willtell you right now.
It leads to low morale.
It can eventually lead tothings like a damaged reputation
, high turnover, toxic workculture if it's really systemic
and for the individuals, thesebehavior can, like strain
(24:24):
relationships, harm yourreputation and hinder your
career growth.
Quite honestly, because I haveled teams where I see this
happen, it's one of the firstthings I want to nip in the bud,
because you don't want thathappening.
But I also question someone'sintegrity when they start doing
that shit Same 100% yeah.
Yeah, overreach, ugh Gross,gross.
(24:45):
We see it all the time thoughright All the time.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think that's the most common thing I've witnessed
.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
Jeez, all right.
Low, petty, medium, overreach.
Three Aggressive ambition.
As greed intensifies, it canturn into aggressive ambition.
We're getting high here, people.
Sorry, I lived in Portland, Ishould go.
(25:11):
It means different things.
We're sweating, yeah, sorry,we're getting high on the
spectrum.
Excuse me, this is significantself-serving actions driven by
self-interest that can harm theorganization, that can harm your
colleagues and potentially leadto ethical violations or some
major ass conflicts.
This can look like manipulatingfinancial statements or
(25:33):
accounting practices to showbetter performance than reality.
It can be things likeimplementing risky business
strategies that prioritizeshort-term gains over long-term
stability.
It can look like pressuring thehell out of your team right
Pressuring employees to meetunrealistic targets or engaging
in unethical practices.
This is what it looks like.
(25:55):
Let me ask you this If you'rewondering if you're doing this,
if you're wondering if you'reexperiencing this, here are
three examples that reallyhappen very commonly in real
life.
If you feel like you need toride the hell out of your team
to make yourself look good, ifyou're changing results to make
your performance look betterthan it is, if you're cutting
(26:18):
corners to meet your numbers orgoals, that could put people's
safety at risk and I'm talkingabout psychological safety,
emotional safety, physicalsafety, if you're doing that or
if you're feeling like that ishappening, this is aggressive
ambition.
This is greed right.
(26:39):
Risk factor here goes way upbecause whether you're the
center or you're on thereceiving end of the sin or just
a bystander, this is bad news,it's unhealthy here, because
here's the deal with being inthe high level of this spectrum
You're not rational, you're notthinking in a really rational
way, you're thinking in me,siloed, blinder on focus, and
(27:04):
they're not like if you're thecenter, you're most likely
thinking more about the gainthan you're thinking about the
risks and the impacts as well.
In this stage, this is whereyou become a massive liability
to your company because of thedemonstrated behavior and
because this can againpotentially really be on the
cusp of that illegal.
(27:25):
This is aggressive, it's adanger zone, it's a danger zone.
And number four here iscorporate crime right, illegal,
illegal.
Okay, listen, friends, get yourturtlenecks out.
That's my Theranos joke.
Here's the thing Once someonehas reached this corporate crime
illegal stage, it almostcertainly becomes not only a
(27:48):
liability but illegal right,because it's not only unethical,
it's illegal.
It leads to severe consequencesnot only for the individual,
and I named off right thosefolks that like from Enron and
Wells Fargo and all this goodjazz, but it also has massive
impacts for the organization.
(28:09):
It can look like what happenedat Theranos.
It can look like what happenedat Wells Fargo.
It can look like Bernie Madoff.
Yeah Right, insider trading,embezzlement, fraudulent
financial reporting, acceptingbribes that's all greed, right,
that's all jail time.
So I hope you have, if you'rethe center here, lawyer up,
(28:32):
because you're going to need it.
Let me give you some fun factsabout this too, because I was
like in my one of the thingsyou'll know about Mel and I if
you ever listened to our pod.
I hope you do.
One of the things we love to dois have a conversation about
our own experiences and storiesthat are going on, but we always
love to come with the data aswell, and I was wondering how
many people go to jail for thisshit every single year?
(29:13):
Oh, that's an interesting stat.
What is it of those?
And then, on average, 10 to 15%of those individuals get jail
time.
It's a ends up being about 400to 500 people go to jail for
this every single year.
And if you're yes, and ifyou're wondering, who is it?
Typically this is typicallyfolks that are at the manager
plus level, 29% are at theexecutive level and 29% are at
(29:37):
the manager level, and they'retypically with the organization
more than six years.
Fun facts.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Yeah, I think the six years thing is like a comfort.
There's like this comfort of athousand percent.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So listen, friends, that's the spectrum.
Right, that's the spectrum.
Here's the deal.
Don't be one of them.
It's not only bad for yourresume, but it's bad for your
organization and bad for yourbrand as well.
We love stories, friends.
I'm wondering curiosity beforewe get into what do you do about
(30:12):
it if you find yourself on thisspectrum?
Speaker 2 (30:15):
What greed situations have you seen?
Yeah, we definitely want tohear that.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah, we love the good stories.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
And it can be anonymous.
This is Vegas in our mind.
I will say this, like I justthink these.
We are starting to see more andmore of this and hopefully this
brings awareness right In ourown.
The goal of this session folks,as a reminder, have a little
fun right, because we know thesetopics.
This stuff happens every singleday and to have an open
dialogue about it is somethingthat we love to do, so
(30:42):
appreciate you joining us.
If you are just joining us,we're at the halfway mark.
I'm Mel and I am Francesca andwe are from your work friends
podcast to HR friends with nofilter, just trying to get you
through all the work shit Beforewe get into what you should do
if you're the center or ifyou're finding yourself on the
(31:02):
sidelines.
Francesca, can I share alistener story that I received?
Speaker 1 (31:07):
this week.
Yeah, yes, and here's the deal,friends.
Every story we're telling youhere is actually real stuff that
happened.
This one, mel, it's a doozy.
It's a doozy.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, it escalated quickly.
So, look, I have to give youthe very high level version of
this story.
Because of our time, I havenamed this the ambition trap.
And look, folks, names havebeen changed here.
It's anonymous, but ourlisteners did write in a story
this week and they were thebystander of this story.
(31:45):
It involved their closecolleagues and peers, but they
thought this is a really goodexample because they felt this
could happen to anybody.
No one's immune, right.
So key players, hopefully get apen and paper.
Write it down if you want tokeep track of who these key
players are.
try and keep it short, all right.
There is Alex, who thislistener noted was a mid-level
(32:06):
manager at the company, superambitious, determined to get to
a top leadership position.
Had been there funnily enough,francesca for seven years, so
right over that six-year markSix-year age.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
They're like I'm telling, telling you there's
something happening there, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
We got to do some more studying on that.
There's Beth.
Beth is Alex's mentor.
She's a well-respected leaderin this org.
She was known for really beinga no nonsense leader who was
very big on team integrity likeintegrity and her brand
connected to that for the peoplewho worked for her.
There's James.
(32:44):
James was Alex's colleague andfriend, more of a go with the
flow teammate, also successful.
Didn't outwardly displayambition, though this.
We have co-workers like.
Some people are just like yeah,whatever, I'm here to get paid,
thanks.
And then Sarah this is a smallcompany, by the way, I would say
it was less than 1,000 people.
(33:04):
So the CEO of this startup.
She's sharp, direct, known forbeing really strict on policy,
just given where they were intheir startup business.
So let me share the beginning.
So let's get back to Alex, thatmanager super ambitious Alex.
Over here.
Alex had been described asalways being ambitious.
Since joining this company, hehad his eyes set on reaching the
(33:27):
top.
His mentor, beth, admired hisdrive, often cautioned him about
the perils of overreaching,especially when she caught him
doing it right.
So we're talking about thatmedium end of the spectrum where
a lot of people sit quitehonestly in this behavior, and
so they consistently hadconversations around his
(33:49):
overreaching and where thatmight be leading.
Alex's colleague James, themore laid back friend, really
preferred more of a steady climbover a meteoric rise as opposed
to Alex, so he wasn't reallywith Alex on a lot of these
efforts.
The company was preparing,though, for a major merger,
because now they were about togrow, they were getting acquired
(34:11):
.
This was a huge deal, and Alexsaw this as his golden
opportunity to make his mark.
How do I this merger'shappening?
How do I get there quick?
How do I get to this leadershipspot more quickly?
Right, standing apart fromeverybody To impress the higher
ups here, alex started small,taking a few extra hours of
(34:32):
resource time to support some ofthe projects that they needed
to complete.
He was exaggerating hiscontributions in team meetings
dumb things like minor thingsthat we just talked about, so
things that usually go unnoticed, but it gave him the small edge
over his colleagues.
Bragging about recognition hewas receiving for the work he
didn't directly do beyonddelegating started to cause
(34:55):
minor resentment among his peers, but nothing that seemed too
serious just yet.
Morale was still fine.
People were still buzzingaround.
It was fine.
What this person noted to mewas that Alex began to cultivate
relationships with thehigher-ups, often volunteering
for high-visibility projects toposition himself as
indispensable for this merger.
(35:16):
He often spoke over hiscolleagues in meetings and his
ambition began to strain hisrelationships with James and
Beth, who felt increasinglysidelined by some of his
aggressive tactics.
So they're just saying.
As time moved on, as this mergergot closer, alex really started
to amp up this behavior.
(35:37):
As the merger approached, more,everything escalated.
He began inflating his expensereports slightly, justifying it
as a means to better network andsecure future deals for the
merger.
He also started fully takingcredit for some of the team's
achievements when he was inone-on-ones with new leadership,
overshadowing the contributionsof his colleagues like James.
(36:00):
James finally, fed up, tried totalk to Alex about it, but Alex
brushed him off, believing hewas just simply being strategic.
And if James was smart, he saidhe would do the same.
That was his guidance.
How would you feel if someonesaid that to you?
If you were smart, you would dothe same.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I would.
First of all, I'm a big fan ofbeing leading with kindness, but
when you need to do a periodicpunch, that's not a bad thing,
but I think the important thingto note here is look, merger
happening.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Sometimes, with mergers, layoffs happen.
Right, you're fighting for yourspot.
What's your future look like?
So you can start to see thedifference in how that
environment impacted someonelike Alex versus someone like
James, and James seemed to havea little more control here,
right when Alex is starting tospiral out a bit.
(36:50):
Look, as I mentioned, alex feltafter all, what's the big deal?
Our jobs are on the line here,potentially, and I need to get I
want that spot.
Eventually, though, alex beganmisusing company funds.
They started reallocating somebudget monies to their specific
(37:11):
projects, cutting some of theresources for others.
He was pushing the team totheir limits, often demanding
long hours without propercompensation to complete things
for new leadership, all thosevisible projects he was signing
up for.
He wasn't doing the work.
He was stealing resources andhaving them do it without
properly checking in with histeam, and he wasn't even asking
(37:33):
his other teammates if he couldtake some of their resources
away from other competing work,putting them in a compromising
position.
Beth, his mentor, noticed thischange in Alex.
She shared her concern for himand she warned him that his
behavior was starting to reallyimpact team morale but also
business, because he was takingresources away from people with
(37:55):
other priority projects.
He was putting theirreputations on the line but also
impacting business deliverablesand deadlines.
He ultimately brushed her off.
He brushed her concerns off andhe was convinced that what he
was doing was necessary tosucceed.
Unfortunately for him, thefinal straw came when Alex
(38:17):
falsified some financial reportsto make his department appear
more profitable to seniorleadership, hoping again that
this was going to secure himthat senior position.
Post merger.
He also started accepting somebribes and kickbacks from
vendors that he was working with, looking to secure contracts in
the new corporate structurethrough some of those projects
(38:39):
that he volunteered on right.
And Alex wasn't being exactlyquiet about it.
Unfortunately, he was braggingto some of the overworked team
about the personal financialgains he was making and would
make with those vendor kickbacksonce the merger took place
(39:00):
would make with those vendorkickbacks.
Once the merger took place,beth started to hear those
whispers obviously becausepeople talk and Alex his
activities kicked off aninternal investigation.
As I mentioned, beth was knownfor no nonsense and had zero
tolerance for this unethicalbehavior.
So the investigation quicklygathered evidence against Alex,
revealing the extent of all ofhis activities where he was and
(39:23):
this level of greed and ambition.
So here's the deal Alexreceived an invite to meet with
Beth and the CEO, sarah, forwhat he thought would be an
announcement of a promotion, butinstead he found himself in a
meeting with Sarah, beth and nowAndy, the HRBP.
They were there to have aconversation about the evidence
(39:45):
they found supporting what theysuspected was criminal activity
and unethical behavior thatcould have hurt the merger and
the organization.
I'm going to share more aboutthe outcome of what happened
here with Alex in just a second,but first we'd love to hear
from you in a pulse check whatdo you think about this
situation, what do you think mayhave happened next and what
(40:09):
would you do if you foundyourself in this situation or
any other area of the space ofgreed?
You can come off mute, you cancome up on stage, you can send
us a DM and while we wait foryour stories, I'm going to move
on to what you should do.
We discussed upfront.
This stuff happens on aspectrum.
What defines what you should donext requires you to really
(40:30):
take a look at the spectrum thatwe outlined, and we'll post
this for you folks.
You'll have access and decidewhere does your unique situation
fall, where is your behavior orwhat are you witnessing?
So if you find yourself on thatlow end of the spectrum here,
petty gains.
If you're the center, listen,we get it.
Petty gains is pretty common.
(40:51):
After all, we're human.
You just don't want to get intothe habit of petty gains
because that quickly moves youinto riskier business.
Now is a perfect time to pauseand reflect.
If you find yourself in thisspace and really asking yourself
why am I doing this?
Why am I printing my concerttickets every month off at the
(41:12):
printer?
Dumb things, right.
Just pause and reflect here,guys.
If you're on the sidelines soyou're the victim, or you're an
indirect observer of thisactivity, look.
If it's your work, friend, andyou notice a pattern and you
feel comfortable chatting withthem about it, then do so, but
only if you're comfortable.
You're ultimately notresponsible for other people's
(41:33):
behavior here, so you're notobligated to do anything.
If you find yourself in themedium space, remember medium
overreach and overreach is apretty common space to
experience, whether you're thecenter or you're on the
sidelines it's time to really doa gut check.
This stage seems innocentenough, but it's not without its
(41:54):
own impact.
So, if you're the center,recognize triggers cultural
pressures, time pressure,external pressures, attitudes
about success and self-worththese are typically the root of
why someone might begin to dothings like undermine others'
achievements, play favorites onprojects, but this isn't okay
(42:17):
and you're going to start todestroy not only your reputation
here but also negatively impactthe organization.
If you're oh yeah, go ahead.
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (42:26):
It just feels like shit when you're doing it.
It feels like shit.
It is a much better feeling Ifyou want to be self centered.
It's much better feeling tohelp somebody out or to have a
communal, collaborative view.
It feels like caca, even thougheven if you feel like you need
to, or you want to afterwardsyeah, I think it's such a good
call out.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
It never feels good.
It never feels good.
That's a.
I think that's a recognizabletrigger, though Do you feel good
about it?
If not, maybe it's greed.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Look at you, mel Look at you.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's a good, it's grief.
Look at you, mel.
Look at you.
It's a good call out for you.
If you're the victim at thisstage right, because I think we
likely have all been the sinnerand we've all been the victim of
the sin I think that's a fairstatement.
If you're the victim here, youmight first consider talking to
the sinner, especially ifthey're undermining your work or
passing you over on projects ortaking resources from you.
(43:20):
But and this is a but if youdon't believe you can have a
constructive conversation, werecommend speaking with a mentor
or a leader for support orguidance at a minimum.
And if that doesn't workbecause maybe they have a leader
who's playing favorites, thenby all means reach out to HR for
(43:41):
further support and guidancehere.
And if you're on the sidelines,if you're witnessing this happen
but it isn't directly impactingyou, you really have two big
three options here.
If you know the center and youfeel comfortable chatting with
them about what you're observing, do so.
If you witness it for example,someone's taking credit for
someone else's work in a meetingspeak up.
(44:01):
Support the person that is thevictim of the sin here.
You can do that in aprofessional way.
I'll just give an example forcredit stealing in meetings.
Right, you might say thanks forsharing your input here, but,
jane, you also contributed tothis output.
What do you think there areways to help someone out in this
situation?
(44:22):
And three, if you don't feelcomfortable with those two
options, you can always go tothe leader to share feedback and
get support.
Again, you are not obligated todo anything.
Do what you're comfortable with.
We're just sharing some options.
If you're in the high zone andyou're watching this from the
sidelines as your friend orteammate is reaching aggressive
(44:43):
ambition, you want to considerthis.
If you're the center, just stop, kaput, kaput, kaput, kaput,
kaput, stop, just stop.
Not a good look for you andit's certainly not a good
environment for your team, foryour colleagues, for you.
At a minimum, you'recompromising others for your own
(45:05):
personal gain and at a maximum,you're also starting to get
into some potentially borderlineillegal activity or HR
violations in this space.
If you're on the sidelines,report it, report it to their
leader, report it to HR anddocument.
That's all you're obligated todo.
And if things aren't checked inthe high zone here, or if
(45:27):
nothing changes, we're reachingcorporate crimes and I hope you
have money for an attorneybecause you've entered illegal.
If you're the sinner, youreally need to get it together
and we hope you have money for alawyer in unemployment, because
this is really hard to recoverfrom and you don't ever, you
don't ever want to find yourselfhere again, mad off anyone.
(45:49):
Bueller, just putting it outthere.
If you're on the sidelines,look, we hope you're never on
the sidelines of criminalactivity.
We hope you're never on thesidelines of criminal activity
and we hope that you recognizedit early enough and started to
report it or address it once yousaw it in the overreach stage,
especially if you're on thesidelines.
But if you weren't and you findyourself on the sidelines at
(46:13):
the corporate crime level,immediately report this to HR.
We do not recommend everconfronting the sinner in this
scenario.
It is potentially not a safething to do because they're in a
space of delusion, they're notthinking or acting rationally
and it's likely actions out ofdesperation and you don't want
to be in the crosshairs of thatever.
(46:34):
I want to finish up our storywith Alex.
We have just a few minutes hereleft by chance.
Does anyone have any thoughtson where they feel Alex ended up
on the spectrum?
Or do you have anyrecommendations for Beth or Alex
?
We'd love to hear your thoughts.
While you're thinking aboutthat, I'm going to share the
(46:57):
real outcome here.
So what our listener shared withus was and just a refresher
when we left off Alex, he was inwith Sarah, the CEO, beth, his
mentor, andy, hrbp, for what hethought was a promotion
discussion, but instead Andylaid out the details of their
(47:18):
evidence.
Alex was given a choice hecould resign quietly or face
legal consequences, and he choseto resign.
His once bright future, acompany that he invested seven
years of his life into, is nowin shambles, and as he packed
his belongings, he saw Jameswatching him a look of pity.
Beth was standing nearby.
(47:40):
Her expression was hard to read, but he realized he lost
everything by letting greed forsuccess get the best of him.
This listener shared with usthat she felt this was a really
good cautionary tale within thecompany, and it was a reminder
for how unchecked ambition andgreed could lead to someone's
downfall, no matter howpromising their start.
And Alex's journey as a lessonto others here is highlighting
(48:04):
the importance of integrity andethical behavior, especially in
the pursuit of success.
Your success can also shine onothers and you don't have to do
this route to get to success.
I will say, about a year laterthey all ran into Alex at a
conference which got superawkward, francesca it always
does when you're like, oh yeah.
(48:24):
Yeah, she said they ran into him, made some small talk.
He was noting how he was theirnetwork.
He was still unemployed.
Although he couldn't prove it,he was certain that what
happened must have gotten out,because anytime he entered final
rounds within his industry forinterviews, he was eventually
passed over.
Beth noted they declined dinnerwith Alex.
(48:46):
They're nervous aboutassociating with him, quite
honestly, after what he'd doneand they just they didn't want
to.
They just lost trust in him,respect in him and didn't want
to spend time with him.
So again, no winners in thissituation, and it's just a quick
example of how greed can reallyescalate pretty quickly.
I know we have about fiveminutes left here.
(49:07):
Oh, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, five minutes lefthere, oh go ahead.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, yeah, and I saw here I don't know if Harry's
still on, but I saw his hand goup, so I didn't know if he
wanted to put his hand back upand come up on stage.
I think maybe Harry might'veleft.
They didn't call me up, I'm out.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I missed you, harry.
That's my bad, harry, but wehad a few questions come in too,
but if you have any questions.
Raise your hand, we'll put youup.
Oh, what questions did you get?
Okay, it feels like corporatesets us up to get at least
overreach mode in order tosucceed, do you?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
agree?
All right, I'll share mypersonal opinion.
I think it can.
Yeah, yeah, depending on.
Sometimes it depends on theorganization and the culture
that's there.
Sometimes it depends on theteam that you end up on.
There's so many externalcomponents that can put you in
the mode of overreach for likealmost like a survival space,
(50:03):
right?
What do you think?
Francesca?
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I think this happens a lot,right, Especially when you have
an organization that is highlycompetitive, or if you're an
organization that's like up orout or highly political to your
point.
This is the culture is going tostoke that, for sure, for sure.
Yeah, I think when you're inflatter organizations, when
you're in organizations thathave like more human centered
(50:28):
leaders, that are really big oncoaching and feedback and all
that good jazz less, butcertainly the organizations that
I've been at, yeah, absolutely,I agree.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
I always go back to what I think is a super handy
tool.
It's like that what is it?
The circle of control, sowhat's in your control versus
what's out of your control.
And I think it goes back towhat recognizing those triggers
then.
So you're not in overreach mode, what's triggering that in you
and how can you manage that?
I think it's, if you can focuson what's in your control, it
(51:02):
will help you stay safe and outof that mode.
Speaker 1 (51:05):
Yeah, I'll tell you too the other thing not to be
super TMI and personal, but I'mgoing to go here when I find my
yeah, and then, when I was six,yeah, no.
But I find myself when I'm inoverreach, where I'm feeling it
right, where I'm about to do it.
I to your point, I'm likechecking myself, and a lot of
times it's because I'm in a fearstate or in this survival state
(51:27):
, and what I know about myselfis I need to get out of fear and
get into the sound super cheese, but like love mode, if you
will.
So it's or more of likecollaboration or no.
The goal is this.
The goal is not me, or winningor zero sum.
It is on team, because mynatural proclivity sometimes is
any means necessary.
That's not right.
Speaker 2 (51:49):
That's just human behavior, though I think that's
like a natural place to be.
Yeah, I think.
Oh, we got another question inhere too.
I got a DM that says I have acolleague who is trying to
assert themselves on a project.
They just joined, but theyhaven't been a part of this from
the start, which was a year ago.
They often speak over otherwork stream leads in the meeting
(52:12):
and it's clear they're tryingto make a play to take this
project over.
There's growing resentment onthe team, but this person is a
leadership darling and we feelthey're untouchable.
What can we do here?
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Oh, yeah, yeah that's a gnarly one.
Yeah, I have found in thesesituations one of two things
typically happens a that personcrashes and burns really quickly
because they're a talker.
They're not necessarily a doerright, so give it six months and
come back to me and tell mewhat happened.
(52:46):
This gets a little politicalsometimes because if they're a
leadership darling, you gotta.
That's a yeah that's a littlebit tough, I think, if you can
talk to a mentor or a coach tosee what you can do there to
navigate that situation.
But I wouldn't.
I wouldn't confront that personnecessarily.
I'd be leaning on your ownnetwork and your own mentors,
mel, what would you do?
Speaker 2 (53:07):
Yeah, I would do that .
I think that's the same thing.
I would recommend the samething, especially given the
darling.
Yeah, that's like yeah Tough,it's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
The other thing is you might not know what you
might not know.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
I also.
I think you're right wherepeople will crash and burn if
they don't have what it takes.
Speaker 1 (53:28):
Every time people come in with pot for ammo and
they don't do the work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Great questions.
Greed, greed happens.
Thanks so much for joining ustoday.
Subscribe.
Wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can come over and say hi tous.
On the TikToks and LinkedIncommunity.
It is up at yourworkfriendscom.
Speaker 2 (53:56):
We're always posting stuff on there and if you found
this episode helpful, share withyour work friends.
Thanks, friend.
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