Streaming recap: Ligue 1’s dilemma and the impact on European football

Amid the exits of Kylian Mbappe, Lionel Messi, and Neymar from the French top flight in recent years, Ligue 1 will soon lose its longest tenured broadcast partner and may be forced to launch its own OTT platform. StreamTime Sports hosts Nick Meacham and Chris Stone discuss the future of Ligue 1 as a broadcast product, along with some other recent news in sports streaming.

Talking points:

• Will Ligue 1 have to launch its own OTT platform?
• Why did Netflix decide to acquire its own NFL package?
• What does Sky Sports+ mean for the UK market?
• Does Venu Sports need Warner Bros Discovery to tie down the NBA rights?
• What to make of TikTok’s introduction of 60 minute videos?
• Will OneFootball’s partnerships with MLS and Yahoo Sports help with US growth?

Episode Transcript

(00:11):
Hello everyone, and welcome backto the next edition of
Streamtime Sports. My name is Kristen.
I'm the community lead here at Sports Pro Media.
It's been about six months sinceI've said that, so I'm mostly
happy that I didn't use our old podcast name or make any other
mistakes before I introduce. As always, our CEO just wanted
to quickly sort of address, you know, like I mentioned, it's
been about six months since I'vebeen here.
And you know, some people might say it's a bit vain to have to

(00:33):
explain yourself to your niche podcast audience.
But you know, myself, my family been going through some things
on a personal level and just needed some time to to step back
and, you know, support each other and kind of get myself
back on track. And selfishly, the reason I say
this is more for my for myself, because I don't want to pretend
like what happened didn't happen.
And, you know, I do appreciate the people that have reached out

(00:54):
to me, you know, in my absence. And I'll say it was really
flattering to people that were New York or sports pro live
asking the team about where I'm at.
You know, consider this podcast sort of my my step back into
sort of that world. Look forward to seeing everybody
and, you know, very much lookingforward to being back on the
podcast. So, you know, everyone's aware
that you're in Jamaica, but you know, I'm actually headed to the

(01:15):
Dominican Republic next week fora nice 10 day holiday with my
wife. You know, I just, it's been so
long since we've worked together, Nick.
I felt like I had to come as close as possible as I could
just to be in your aura. It's so funny actually, since I
have been over here, so many people I know have been in and
around Jamaica, like out of the Bahamas here, the Barbados here,

(01:36):
Dominican Republic. Seems like Caribbean's becoming
a, a, a real hot spot for peoplewho are trying to get some sun,
particularly over the last six months where Europe and the and
the UK has been a little bit worse for wear when it comes to
the weather. So it seems to be a hop.
You're a hop, skip and a jump away from me.
I reckon you're less than like 200.
You'll be less than 200 kilometres away from me probably

(01:58):
or 300 kilometres away yet across a very big sea that not
that I'm not familiar with too many people.
I don't even know if you can geta boat across from from there to
here. I know you can get a boat from
for the northern part of the Ireland to Cuba, but then you
might not get back or whatever. You won't be allowed into the US
if they hear about it, so that'sfor sure.
Well, one of the interesting things, Nick, I'm going to have

(02:19):
to figure out is what the coverage is going to be like of
the EUR, because one of the things I'm excited about is the
day after we land the EUR kicks off.
So my intention is to have European champion football from
about 9:00 AM local time till about 3:00 PM local time every
day, which I think is just goingto work perfectly to the beach
bar, you know, wake up early, get a little breakfast, just day

(02:41):
drink, perfect time to take a little nap before you go out for
dinner. So I'm going to have to figure
out who has the local broadcast rights for the Euros in the
Dominican Republic. You know, a very niche topic
that fits perfectly into our podcast.
Well, it it does indeed. And just out of interest, which
team would you, were you going to follow a specific team or
you're just going to be a supporter of great football?

(03:02):
And perfect fashion with sports media.
I'm a heavy so Rare user for anyone that's interested in the
Web 3 collectible space. So I'll be rooting for whichever
players my so Rare team have. So I've got a bit of a strong
relationship with England and Germany.
If those two teams do well, thenmy so rare team should do well.
So yeah, that we're going to follow the money.
Yeah, well, fair enough. I, I do think that's, you're

(03:24):
quite a modern day sports fan these days where you do follow
players and, and the fantasy aspects of sport these days.
But yeah, it is interesting. Like at some stage, I would love
to do actually a bit of a podcast on the dynamics of the
Caribbean market because it's really interesting talking to
some people here about how they watch and consume sports.
They don't think they're wondering why I'm grilling them
without them knowing why I'm grilling them.

(03:46):
Because actually things like forexample, the Premier League and,
and the EUR and the CONCACAF, all of those events that are
happening, well, some of them are available on free to air,
some of them are available on cable and some of them aren't
even barely available. Like the Premier League.
People were having to be forced to pirate the content because
there was not available on any other channel.
Like it wasn't actually being made available because there was

(04:07):
some fallout or issues with someof the the existing carriage
partners out here. So it's something I want to
spend a bit more time into. I want to talk to a few more
people to get bit of a sense of how that's all played out.
I've already talked to the CEO of one of the major broadcasters
out here to get a sense of theirangle on it all.
But look, hopefully you'll be able to get, I'm sure you'll get
plenty of people joining you watching some of the Euro

(04:27):
action, although you're probablygoing to get a lot more
Americans there. So also the NBA Finals will be
on right? So.
And in that time zone that I canactually watch.
Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Now I watch so much more
American sports because I get, well, I get, I get ESPN
Caribbean, which I don't know how much that differs from the

(04:50):
normal channel. I'm guessing it quite a bit.
But now I've ended up watching most every other night.
I'm watching the NHL or, or or the NBA when it's on there.
Although I would have to say that it's sometimes just in the
background while I'm faffing it about on my phone or doing some
work. So yeah, it definitely makes a
big difference having the US sports on the time zone if
that's your if that's your thing.

(05:11):
I totally forgot about the NBA Finals.
I'm very much looking forward tothat because that should be, you
know, game 345, like right in the midst of it.
So yeah, that that's a great shout, Nate.
Well, I'm quite excited about ittoo.
And obviously you have the underlying story still hanging
around about what's actually going to happen with the the NBA
and it's rights over the next the next cycle.
So we interested to see that starts that that goes quiet as

(05:33):
we get through this or whether it becomes even more talked
about and more speculated about through the through the Finals.
But I have to ask you, who's your pick for the, for the
winner? Is it is it the Celtics or is it
The Mavericks? You asked me with my head or my
heart. I'm asking or give us both.
I mean, Head says you got to go with the Celtics.
I mean, they're putting up some very statistically unprecedented

(05:55):
numbers in terms of offensive efficiency. 2 bona fide stars
between Brown and the Duke graduate.
How am I forgetting his name already?
Jason Tatum, Yes, thank you. But my heart, you know, I just
want to go with Luca, you know, I love watching these European
dudes between Joker and Luca andGiannis.
Like, I just love what they're bringing to the game.

(06:15):
So. And they still got Kyrie, so
another Duke. I'm a Duke basketball fan.
So I think it'd be really cool to see Kyrie go back to Boston
and win. Definitely would be, I think.
Well, I I do really like watching Luca many him and
Yokich because they're slower, slower white dudes like me who
basically can't. I'm very I'm very athletic, but
are able to absolutely dominate one of the most athletic sports

(06:39):
going around. So I, I love the the conundrum
that sort of serves people afterthinking that for me many years
that you could only be successful in the NBA if you're
an absolute specimen of an athlete.
Well, now in a way that I think I have an unprecedented skill,
Nick, I'm going to find a way tosegue.
And, you know, we're talking about meteorites deals and
meteorites deals that perhaps went a little bit quiet perhaps.
And one of the things that's really interesting that we're

(07:00):
going to start the show off withis the League One rights in, you
know, France is equivalent to the Premier League.
We had Ben Morell speak at Sports from Madrid back in late
November, early December, and wewere having conversations 'cause
there were some difficulties around selling their meteorites.
And we're now into early June and that conversation is still
going on about what the future of their media rights looks
like. And there's still some

(07:21):
conversation potentially about would they launch their own D2C
platform if they didn't get the rights they were looking for
from a broadcast partner. So given Nick, this is something
that is not a news story but seemingly continues to have more
and more drama around it. You know, should they be
concerned that this story is still going on so long and that
news keeps getting brought up but no progress has seemingly

(07:43):
been made? Yeah, yeah.
They should be really concerned with how this is all playing
out. I think we've seen a fundamental
shift in the way, and it's been well documented, but we've
covered it a lot that the meteorites landscape for live
sports has fundamentally shifted, particularly outside of
the US and all of football in particular, which has been built

(08:03):
so heavily on those highly touted meteorites deals that
have been funding the industry for so long are fattening and
and decreasing. And, and what it looks like is
that France is in a situation now where they're underneath,
they're going to be hit at the hardest we've seen in in decades
with regards to the the downwardpressure that they're going to

(08:24):
be seeing. I mean, the the zone and the
zone is probably the leading contender in that market at the
moment. They've been making some moves
around women's football, including buying the women's
league there, but there were fundamentally less competition
and less willingness from any ofthe major streamers, any of the
major traditional incumbents to spend heavily on live sports
rights any longer. So the question, yeah, the

(08:47):
question does remain, does does the LFP have to go it alone or
at least launch a direct to consumer offering an OTT service
to broadcast some of their games?
I think they will have to have to do something around that,
that ilk. I I don't think you're going to
see anyone looking to buy up allthe rights unless they get it at

(09:08):
a discount. Amazon never does.
They always buy bits and pieces of the pie.
They they make strategic moves and little bits to see how
that'll go. Maybe what might happen is that
Canal Pluse comes back to the table with a a new deal, which
will at least give the LFP the most exposure possible given LF

(09:28):
can now put his prominence. But at the moment they've been
pretty forthright about not being up up for up for those
rights. And that's really I think what's
really set all this off is that LFP doesn't have one of the main
traditional plays in the market in the fight for those rights
like they used to. So I think it's a really
fascinating to see how bad it gets and whether if Liga and do

(09:49):
have to launch their own, their own platform.
I, I think that's, that's not going to be by choice.
It's kind of a kind of like their hand will be forced.
The net benefit is that maybe they can start building a direct
consumer relationship with some customers and maybe you some use
some of those rights that wouldn't be used otherwise to
start building something more substantial.
But it's not looking pretty for the LFP.

(10:10):
And it comes at a time where they've lost all these major
pros. You think about Neymar, Messi,
Ronaldo leaving the league and Bob Baisley left the league.
Yeah, it's done. Not a good time for the LFP yet.
I still think it's actually, it's going to, it's almost
coming. It's almost reaching its its
bottom. And now I do think once it gets
through this cycle, then I do think you'll see some growth in
it because the French market is so solid when it comes to

(10:31):
French, the football. But yeah, not a good time for
them, that's for sure. It's not a good time for them,
but do you think perhaps other European football leagues are
very excited to see what comes of this?
Not because they want to see a competitor fail because
ultimately it's a rising tide, right?
You know, if it happens in France, it could happen
anywhere. But do you think they're
interested to see, could they pull off a direct to consumer

(10:52):
'cause I think, you know, everyone in the UK has talked
about why doesn't the Premier League go DTC And we've covered
quite comprehensively why that'snot as easy as it is.
But do you think they're excitedto see what potentially happens
to see if there is a road map toto roll something out like this?
Yeah, for sure. I think whenever you can have
someone else be the Guinea pig for you to work out if something

(11:13):
that you're too afraid of takinga a risk or a bet on is going to
work, then this is the best way to see it happen.
And the Western European marketsare very like for like and that
nature around consumption behaviour around the, the value
of those rights. So I'm sure they'd be very
excited to see them go through it.
I think they would be very, veryreluctant to do it if they had

(11:34):
to. But I think there's also going
to be on the excitement part to see them go through their
journey. I think there'll be still a bit
of a fear of, Oh well, what happens if this happens to us in
the next cycle or the cycle after that.
And it could really happen. Like if you think about Italy,
you think about in Germany. Well, if it wasn't for the zone
being at the table, there will be a serious lack of competitive

(11:58):
tension in those markers for rights.
And would they be dropping even further if they weren't weren't
at the at the bargaining table? So yeah, excited to see to
follow what they do on the OTT side if they do launch and see
how successful it is. But I think it definitely
wouldn't be the ideal scenario for anyone at this stage until
there's a much more mature adoption of streaming services

(12:19):
in Europe, where Europe has beenreally just so slow to adopt
streaming services when you compare it to what's happened in
the US over the last couple years.
Well, moving from one sports league that seemingly struggle
to find any deal, we're going tomove to a league that seemingly
cannot stop signing more deals with the NFL and their recent,
you know, small, small package of games with Netflix.

(12:41):
And again, this is really interesting because it wasn't
too long ago in London at SportsPro Live yourself, Steve
McCaskill, Lydia Fairfax kind oftalking about big tech's role.
And you know, for years, we've always talked about Netflix and
you yourself have sort of said it doesn't necessarily make
sense for Netflix to necessarilymove into live sports with their
proposition, assuming, you know,they didn't do something where

(13:02):
they're buying multiple packagesand multiple games.
Well, here we are. They've they've gone and done it
and they've done it with arguably the biggest sports
league in the world. So, you know, I think there's
some people I've seen that are abit upset because they're like,
great, this is one more subscription I have to pay for.
I on the other side think of it is I don't know many people that
aren't already subscribed to Amazon Prime and already

(13:22):
subscribed to Netflix. Like I get it on the surface
when people have these tweets saying, oh, it's now going to
cost you X amount of dollars to watch every NFL game.
I'd be curious to know what the stat is on how much extra money
are you going to pay because youweren't already subscribed.
And I don't know what the differences are in those
numbers, but one more new broadcast partner for the NFL.
Interestingly, it's Netflix. It's the perfect type of deal

(13:46):
for them. I don't know how the NFL have
done it. You know they, I remember 5 plus
years ago whenever the the latest cycle was announced and
there was this $110 billion price tag attached to all their
media rights. And really, I think we just all
assumed and did look into the finer details to realise how
much was still left on the table, how much was available
for them to do these strategic deals with.

(14:06):
And apparently quite a lot they've done deals on the
betting side with through Geniusand Bet MGM.
They've done these other Black Friday Deals with, with Amazon
and, and now now this one aroundChristmas Day.
So I'm really, well, I'm exciteddefinitely to see where Netflix
goes with this. Now, the the reasons I always
had concerns about the thought and notion that Netflix would

(14:28):
come to the table was for a couple of simple reasons.
One was their churn rates are already the lowest in the
industry, so they're not losing subscribers.
So the retention side of things isn't a problem for them.
And that's where you could consider that live sports can
aid the building extra value there.
And the other is they've really hit a pretty solid market cap in

(14:50):
terms of like the maturity of the subscriber base they have in
particularly in markets like like the US.
So do they need to really investheavily in driving further
customer acquisition? And that was always where I got
stuck on it. Like what would be the business
benefit? But now, particularly with the
success of launching their ad tier, well, what do we know that

(15:10):
the NFL and some other sports are really good for?
Well, it's appointment viewing and it's advertising sales and
revenue. So they can drive a whole host
of supplementary revenue throughadvertising that they wouldn't
be able to do through the subscription only products.
And it just fits into the natureof the feed and experience
without compromising it. Because there's people that are

(15:31):
so used to consuming NFL and, and, and with with advertising
being at the heart and soul of the broadcast.
So advertising becomes a huge revenue generator all of a
sudden for Netflix, it was already becoming part of the mix
in that hybrid subscription model, the the ad funded ad tier
model. Now it becomes even a huge new
revenue stream for them. And they're able to give any of
these major broadcasters instantscalability because they have a

(15:54):
greater reach than any other broadcast partner out there.
So I still think they didn't. It's not a move they needed to
make. I think it's partially, hey,
there's new opportunities here to grow.
It also hurts our competitors bytaking away some rights that we
know can help Dr. audiences to them.
So I think it's a very bold move, a bullish move and but I

(16:15):
can definitely see why they're making that move now given the
success of the advertising business.
It will be interesting. So you said this is not
something that they're great at streaming, but streaming live
sports is a completely differentmonster.
So it will be interesting to understand from the NF LS
perspective what they saw. To think that they could have
the confidence that they could pull this off because it is
something, it's Christmas Day, there's going to be a lot of

(16:37):
people around. Like there could be nothing
worse than this not being successful, and Netflix doesn't
have a long list of case studiesto say they can do so.
I think the first time they did it was one of the Real
Housewives shows. I don't think it was Real
Housewives, but it's something along those lines and I remember
it. Didn't go.
Rumour tells me it was Love is Blind, I believe, rumour tells.

(16:58):
You. That is it.
Yeah. There you go.
I know. That's to be the.
I don't know if that's to be thecase, Chris.
Don't, don't ask me any further questions about why I know that.
Well, I knew something bad, you know, not as great as Married at
First Sight Australia, which I don't know if you indulge in as
an Australian, it's a great show, but I just, I remember
that that didn't go too well. So again, it's just, you know,
from the NFL perspective, I mean, they're the kings.
If it doesn't work, it probably doesn't.

(17:19):
But it does seem like a very bigway to announce yourself as
Netflix if it doesn't go right. Well, look, we have been
following their their moves in the live, the live sports and
entertainment game for some time.
They've obviously done the new WWE deal which kicks off in
2025. So this is probably another one
of those stepping stones for them to.
It's a relatively small bet for them, you know, in terms of the

(17:41):
amount of money they spend, the billions they spend on licensing
content, 150 million again to try try and see if they can
generate significant impact, whether it be audience
retention, new subscribers or whatever it might be as their
major metrics of success. It's a relatively easy move for
them to make to see if they can move the needle there.

(18:02):
And they have been doing lots oflive broadcasting of different
nature. You've think you've got the what
was the name of that exhibition match between Alcaraz and Nadal.
They've done various other golfing exhibition stuff as well
on there. So they've done some bits and
pieces here. This is obviously a whole a
whole other ball game, but you got to remember I don't haven't
seen the numbers. This is obviously servicing the

(18:24):
USI believe there is an international component, right.
I think it is a a global deal, which I think that part is the
most interesting here, that it'sgoing to be available through
international channels as well to see if they were able to
really drive attention to the NFL from people who aren't
necessarily fans of the NFL and in non key markets.

(18:45):
So yeah, very interested to see how they do here.
I really, really wanted to be successful because it means that
Netflix could just be at the beginning point of investing
into sport, particularly if it has a a really solid ad offering
in the mix as well. Yep, definitely need more
competitors. As we talked about with League
Loon, they might look for Netflix to do it one day.
More competition is always beneficial, but one country that

(19:07):
maybe competition is seemingly being brought in more and more
under one umbrella is Sky Sports.
Now we know that Sky Sports has done some recent deals re upping
some of the different things they've done with the Premier
League. Also, what they're doing in the
future for the EFL, the English Football League and I even going
backwards. Part of those deals also was
increased games on TV, which I know you've talked about where

(19:29):
you know, they'll talk about themoney's gone up.
But when you actually get on a per game basis, it's actually
stagnated or potentially even gone down a little bit.
But in that time, they've also announced the launch of a new
platform, Sky Sports plus. Now that seems to be the easiest
thing in the world, Nick, for streaming platform is just to
put plus on the end of it and let it go.
But why is Sky Sports Plus, you know, different from all the

(19:50):
other different packages that sit within the the Sky Sports
sort of ecosystem that people should be paying attention to?
Well, really, it's a game changer for a couple of reasons.
For those that aren't familiar with Sky Sports, I mean, I have
never actually owned a Sky Sports subscription.
I hope I don't disappoint some of the Sky Sports executives
over there. But I have watched Sky Sports
enough and I've followed them enough to know a little bit

(20:10):
about their business. But one of the big things they
they started evolving to in the last cycle, particularly when I
spoke to the managing director, Jonathan Lichter in I think
season one of the Stream Times Sports or year one of the Stream
Times Sports podcast. Was about how they had to shift
from a very traditional, here's Sky Sports 1, Sky Sports 2, Sky
Sports, three linear channels and then maybe a main event

(20:31):
pay-per-view channel. And that was kind of it.
And they shifted that to a single sports focused offering
of like Sky Sports Golf, Sky Sports Formula One, Sky Sports
Cricket. And they still had a couple of
linear channels as well on top of that.
So what that led them to do was they could be much more focused
on where they were spending their money on media rights by
spending more on those single sports properties that they know

(20:54):
that there's pent up audience audiences and fan bases.
So hey, if you're a golf fan, ifyou're AF1 fan or fight sports
fan, you have to have a subscription to Sky Sports
because that is where the majority of the content is in
the UK. But what the knock on effect of
that is it stopped basically them bidding for those Tier 2,
Tier 3 rights that wouldn't fit in, didn't have a place to go,

(21:17):
basically didn't have a place togo in those single channels and
didn't have a place to go in their traditional linear
channels on on the cable productthey were offering.
So now what Sky Sports Plus doesthat.
I think the the line is they will allow something like 30
unique live events being streamed at any one time.
It will allow them to just basically have way more live

(21:39):
sports available way, way more. And So what the knock on effect
here is that they're going to beable to now provide a platform
for those Tier 2, tier 3 sports that just didn't have the the
space for them to be visible on.They'll now be available in the
Sky Sports plus product if they want to.
So you could think about some ofthose Tier 2, Tier 3 challenges,

(21:59):
sports that are, have, have historically sort of been lost
and maybe have had to go OTT, have had to go social media,
have had to maybe take smaller deals with some of the, the free
to air channels like BBC or ITV or Channel 4.
Now they can say, hey, well, we can house all of your content
all year round. You can be available and visible
on Sky Sports Plus and you'll have access to a much, much

(22:22):
bigger audience. So what I think the the net
effect here is, is that they're not necessarily going to start
bidding for loads more rides andpaying premiums and paying more
rides. They're going to be saying to
the sports property say, hey, we've got a platform here, we've
got a ready made audience. Give us your stuff and we can
make it available to to a ready made sports fan base that is
already consuming heavily aroundsports and do it at a pretty,

(22:44):
pretty cheap price. And so I like, I really like the
move for Sky Sports. It gives them another chance to
just up the game again and come back into the the the space of
having a lot more sports available in Sky Sports again
and not just being focused around a few of those key
properties that they have been for the last five plus years.
So another great move for them to keep maintaining their
dominance in this in this market.

(23:05):
How apples to apples would you say that is to ESPN Plus?
You know anything about ESPN Plus?
ESPN will still have the SEC andthe NBA and some of their big
things on the the linear channels.
But then they've got hundreds ofESPN Plus channels that all of a
sudden is showing division to baseball that no one else is
going to watch or see elsewhere.You know, did you see them as

(23:26):
being relatively similar moves, at least from a strategic
perspective? I'd say I haven't used ESPN Plus
for some time, but I would say similar.
I'd say the difference here is in the short term, I can't see
Sky Sports going crazy and like getting getting lots of like
real lower tier niche stuff thatis not of interest to people

(23:46):
initially. But maybe if they start to see
it really working well, then they might be in a position
where like, hey, let's just openup the floodgates here.
Let's make sure we've got, yeah,the NCAA volleyball and some
sort of the Thai Football Leagueavailable on the platform.
Just basically like just go nutsof picking up stuff from all
over the world and and making itavailable in this platform.
But for now, I think they'll just be strategic.

(24:08):
They'll just make sure they're going to prioritise football.
Obviously they're going to prioritise these new deals
they've done with the EFL and make sure they are all
available, make sure they work well because that is the biggest
product servicing the their coreaudience by by some means you're
talking what was a 1000 matches a season available now, right?
Like it's, it's, it's and that services that package services

(24:29):
the entire, the entire country. So they want to make, want to
make sure that works really well.
And they've obviously got tennisand other products there as well
that I think they'll just keep building, inching and adding to
it as as they go along. The question will be is that
will they be up for putting any money on the table with extra
media rights? I doubt it because they've been
very tough negotiators in the last few cycles for the even

(24:51):
those top tier rights. Well, I suppose speaking about
ESPN, another nice easy natural segue is talking about what I'm
hoping is pronounced as venue sport.
So that's not what it's going tobe called.
Someone can let me know. But we have talked a little bit
about this in the past, and I think it's something we've
wanted to talk about. But recent episodes just haven't
had a chance to just sit down and talk about the news, given
some of the guests that we've had in different events that

(25:12):
we've been hosting. But there was all the talk, you
know, sort of the end of 2023, some of that coming from, you
know, our friend David Gandler Fubo, talking about sort of
legally this idea of, you know, Disney and Fox and Warner
Brothers coming together would be a monopoly.
And it's sort of continued to toprogress.
But it does seem like as the time goes, we're starting to get

(25:33):
more and more details about the specifics.
You know, there's still some questions around the pricing,
but there's some rough estimates, but there's also talk
around what those specific pack or sports packages will be
within there. So Nick, you know, just because
we've not necessarily had a chance to, to sit down and talk
about venue sports, you know, maybe just what are your
thoughts from what you've seen, how it's progressing, what

(25:53):
hurdles may still exist or just some of your key thoughts on it?
Yeah, the the name is an interesting one.
I always have flashbacks when you see names like this, which,
yeah, I thought, well, I thoughtit was V venue, which could be
is is came in French. No, that won't work.
Then venue. Venue.
OK, Venue for sport makes makes sense.

(26:16):
Not having the E there looks more like Venus than venue to
me, but whatever. I I'm sure they pay lots of
brand agencies millions and millions of dollars to work out
that that's the name to go with.Still, nothing will outdo the
Zone's name and brand, which still gets me today to see that
DAZN together and pronounced as it is.
But anyway, I digress. I, I look as a as a fan, as a

(26:41):
consumer, as someone who loves watching sports.
I, I think the idea of having this real nice mix of a lot of
linear style channels available.All your sports is packaged up
into one concentrated product and not forcing me to buy access
to dozens and dozens and dozens of channels that I will just
never use. And I just have to navigate

(27:01):
across them to find what I want to watch makes complete sense.
Like sign me up. It's a, it's a much more I I'm
really being laser focused on getting a product that I want.
And 55% of the US sports rights is definitely significant in
this product. If you think that all those
rights will be there, they're still, you're still going to
need three or four other subscriptions to get access to

(27:21):
the other products. But we're already seeing hints
of other potential aggregation deals happening and being
discussed with some of the theircompetitors, whether it be Apple
and Peacock and others talking about doing different types of
aggregation deals. So I think we're now at the
starting point. We're going to see more of this
aggregated type of relationship,not to the extent of the venue
sports deal, but still you're going to see more and more of

(27:44):
them to make it easier for consumers to make a decision on
whether they want to park their cash and as they think such a
drop off in cable subscriptions across the US.
I think what's going to be really interesting is if Warner
Brothers Discovery really do lose.
And we covered this a little bitin the conversation I did with
with Steve and Lydia on streaming wars, which you should
listen to. It's a couple of weeks ago.

(28:05):
Really good, really good episode.
And particularly when I'm talking to experts like them,
that makes me sound like I know what I'm talking about or not
what I'm talking about sometimes.
But the point was, if Warner Brothers Discovery do lose those
those rights of to the NBA, which was their crown jewel on
the sports front, just what's the knock on effect here?
Will they be able to keep their cable and carriage deals they've

(28:27):
got in place at the level that they were?
They're going to have to find a substitute somehow, some way.
Now, the the the rumours are, the speculation is that they
could still end up with some NBArights.
They're not out of the picture yet and they still could end up
with something. But if they do let's play the
hypothetical game, then this deal, they're not really
bringing nearly as much to the table as Fox or ESPN are in, in

(28:49):
that in the same ilk. So that needs to be more about
the type of deal that they have in place and how that will be
managed. As far as I was aware, it was a
share of probably revenue and maybe a share of profits.
But yeah, I don't know enough about that deal.
We're going to learn a lot more as it comes to light with the
regulatory and legal challenges we're seeing with Fubo and
alike. We're no doubt more of that deal

(29:10):
and more of that that relationship will be will become
clear. So I like I like anything that
aggregates sports content together.
I can see this being a real winner for people in the US who
just know they like sport and what that's what they want.
I would love this sort of thing to be available internationally.
Selfishly, I, you know, see me here in the Caribbean, I
basically just watch ESPN most of the time, a bit of Sports

(29:33):
Max, which is the Digicel channel, but they serve all
sorts of random stuff like the the Trinidad and Tobago Premier
League, which is not quite of the same, same status as the
EPL. So I'd like to have access to
something like this just so I can have the breadth of content
access that I would like. So yeah, look like, like the
product. It's that we don't even go down

(29:54):
the Fubo line, which we had obviously David on the pod about
a month or two ago about covering some of the the
challenges that they see and, and how this isn't fit for
purpose for their from their point of view.
So lots to follow still, that's for sure.
Yeah, well, you know, you referenced previous pod, I'll
referenced last week's pod whichwas quite a bit about the role
of advertising within sports, touched on a little bit with

(30:14):
Netflix and you know, what theirad supportive model is.
And seemingly that is more and more becoming a part of the
conversation can't rely solely on Subs.
And it's not necessarily it's entirely new for them as a
business, but the Zone in recent, you know, weeks has
announced the launch of 10 new free ad supported streaming
channels. And there's some in there that
we know quite well, you know, match room boxing, PDC darts,

(30:37):
which Luke Littler is still lighting up the darts world.
And you know, I think you'll continue to see that property
grow. But they've got a whole list of
other things, including my favorite, which is cornhole TV.
As someone from Ohio, where the great sport of cornhole was
invented. And I was playing in Victoria
Park the other week, getting lots of stairs as I had my own
board in bags with my friends. But yeah, you know, what do you
think about this from the Zone, you know, in terms of launching,

(30:59):
you know, 10 new fast channels and sort of where they're going
with this? I knew you'd be a cornhole guy.
I knew you'd be a cornhole guy. The last time I went to to the
to the resort with a family, cornhole was being played all
over the place. So it really I, I watched some
people and they were not nearly as good as you'd see on the TV.
That is for sure. But what look, I, I think what's

(31:20):
interesting about this move is it's just doubling down on what
they've said is they, they want to be much more focused on being
available through and producing more fast channel offerings.
And they backed it up with this.I mean, clearly the channels
they've created are very tier, low tier, non premium sports
content with the exception. We don't know what match room
boxing's going to have. I can't imagine they're going to

(31:42):
have any of their the high, the high premium content on that on
those channels is probably goingto be replays of fights or or
maybe some magazine shows or stuff that's just been
repurposed rather than being thelive stuff.
And they're going to push that stuff into their pay-per-view
offering, which is obviously where they can generate some
serious income. It makes their makes the little

(32:03):
zone offering a little bit more sticky.
It basically puts them into the game of trying to be another
fast destination. And so if you're a big sports
fan in a similar way, we're talking about the venue, venue
sports sort of offering, well, if you think they've got enough
to offer in their fast product and you don't really know what
you want to watch, you can trackthe zone and look at what

(32:23):
channels they've got and just surf the channels and see if you
find something you want to watch.
And that's basically just makingthemselves a bit more of a
destination between those live events.
I can't, I can't see the list that they've got is, is
necessarily driving me to make sure I'm on the platform.
But it also will get adoption ofthe of the zone for users who
don't necessarily have to pay for access to that for the

(32:45):
premium pay for product, which Ithink is something they've
they've been talking a lot about.
You know, Shai Sigev, who's the CEO has talked about they want
to, you know, have a billion fans on the platform, right?
So to do that, you're going to have to have a lot of
consumption happening from a free perspective.
And so making moves more and more moves around fast allows
them to build more and more audiences in that space.

(33:06):
I just don't know how they'll get audiences onto that
platform, like how they're goingto drive people to go hard.
You know what, I need to now download the Design Act, the
Zone app because I'm a massive paddle fan.
I need to be subscribing to the TV channel.
Is it going to be discernibly better than going onto YouTube,
let's say, and just consuming the various breadth of content
that you've got available on that platform?

(33:27):
So it's a nice move. I don't think it's a needle
mover. And there's also other fast
channels that they've, they've launched in other markets, like
there's a women's football fast channel.
I'm not sure if they might have even launched the NFL one.
But anyway, there's more to comeon that.
I think if you start to see somemore premium names pop up, then
they might have a bit more time,more interest, particularly
they're going to start having live sports available on that
platform. But I'm not sure it's going to

(33:48):
have a lot of live. Yeah, we'll see.
I mean, I one of the takeaways Ihad from the podcast last week
is, you know, I think one of theexamples was volleyball.
And maybe they were doing that because Nick, they know your
affinity to volleyball. You know, I agree, not all of
those channels are on there things that I'm necessarily
going to be running to, but thatdoesn't mean those audiences
don't exist. And if there's now a way to
monetize those people in a cost efficient manner, it seems like

(34:12):
it could work. But I agree, I don't think it's
it's a mind blowing move or anything over the top, but
certainly something interesting.Yeah, look, I I think where I
would say with this move of adding these new fast channels
support that it creates a nice little product to market to, you
know, small groups of fans. But hey, to lacrosse lovers
across the world, subscribe to the zone for free and you get

(34:32):
access to lacrosse TV, you know,all year, all day, all year
round access to lacrosse. Great.
Where someone who's a who's not a lacrosse fan that might be
beneficial is if they then wrap that into more of a linear
offering where you get a mix of,you know, all ten of these
different channels dispersed on a linear product as well.
Then that allows me the opportunity to just turn on the

(34:53):
TV and see what they've got on. And I'll get a chance to get a
little bit of exposure organically to lacrosse or
paddle or cornhole rather than having to actively seek, oh, I
need to go to the cornhole TV channel to watch cornhole.
So I think that's that's going to be interesting to see if they
get extra value out of those rights they're sitting on and
turn it into a mixed linear product on top of just the fast

(35:13):
channel. But I think you're going to see
more and more of these these types of moves by anyone in the
streaming space who's trying to create themselves as a bit more
of a destination to come to the platform, even if it's only
servicing a small group. Yeah, well, I'm going to move
our our order a little bit around just because I think
there's a a similar type of thing taking place with one of
our 2 remaining stories I want to talk about.
And that is specifically one football.
We had their their CEO Patrick Fisher on back in end of last

(35:37):
year. And you know, they were talking
about some of the big moves theyhad.
And obviously they've had a rebrand given, you know, he was
new to his position after their long time founder had stepped
away. But they continue to keep making
these moves. You know, a little bit further
back at the beginning of this year, they had the the the
partnership with Yahoo Sports, but now they've also doing
something specifically with the MLS and, you know, with Apple

(35:59):
and the deal they have for the MLS pass that they have there.
One football's continuing to take some more of that media
content and put it within the platform.
So, you know, we've always been a fan of 1 Football's approach
because, you know, they're not necessarily going out buying the
biggest rights, but they seem toalways strategically be picking
up the right things in the rightmarkets and growing the platform

(36:20):
organically. So, you know, Nick, you know,
specifically the MLS is the morerecent news, but what do you
think about some of these new things that they're bringing
into the platform? For ever since I've been
following one football, their approach has been, I think
really, really valuable and justthe way the industry should be
really looking at how to work with each other.

(36:43):
And what I mean by that is you talk about an industry that's
been built around licensing deals for so long.
One footballers come and say, look, we're not going to do
licensing deals. We're not going to pay you a
premium to have your rights. Instead, what we can do is we
can work together to provide a platform for you to generate
more income and reach a bigger audience through our channels.
And we we share the revenue. We share the profits.

(37:04):
Typically that's the model. I don't know for sure if that's
the play in all these deals, butgiven what Patrick said on this
podcast before and the coverage and conversations I've had over
the years, I'd expect they're still continuing to follow that
model here in these these partnerships.
And that approach is how the sports industry has to really be
transforming its its way of working too, Because if they do,

(37:26):
then that's where everyone is really on the same playing off
off of the same seeing off the same hymn sheet, right?
They are all trying to grow eachother's businesses and trying to
get as many people to your platform and trying to generate
as many much return as possible.You know, they've done that
going back a number of years. They've done that before with
various sets of live football rights right across the the

(37:47):
globe. Typically the lower tier sort of
rights that you might be things like it might be, I don't know,
I'm pulling things out out of thing here like maybe the
Scottish Premier League, but available in France or the
Australian league available in Italy or whatever.
So basically I pick up live, live live football rights, make
it available on their platforms as a sort of destination

(38:07):
offering and then split the revenues either through the
subscription offering or a pay-per-view style approach.
And they saw some really good progress over there, but it's
lower risk. It's it was typically mopping up
those rights that weren't competing really with anyone
else and sharing the profits of that along the way.
So if they're following that model steel and I think these

(38:30):
these moves are quite strategic and they want to be bigger in
the US clearly. And you're talking about two or
three of the biggest organisations in the US in Yahoo
Sports as a media. Yahoo is a media outlet.
And actually Ryan Spoon, who's the ex COO of so rare is I think
the CEO or the head of Yahoo Sports these days, they're

(38:51):
really good operator. They understand the benefit of
doing these types of partnerships rather than just
trying to look up traditional licensing deals.
And then the MLS and Apple one is an interesting one again,
because it's the first deal thatI've seen where we're seeing the
MLS season pass be made available through a third party
provider like A1 football. That isn't a traditional

(39:12):
destination for them to be made available on through traditional
Apple TV outlets. So I really like it.
I really like what they're trying to do.
I like that there's therefore a pressure on one Football to
continue to grow its audience both on the one Football
platform and on social media. And when we had Patrick on the
show, he was talking about they really they're really focused on
user generated content. So that can be provided a really

(39:34):
a really solid destination for some of their partners to
generate their own new audiencesand build up this whole this,
this, this destination approach that we're seeing all the major
big tech companies do, but laserfocus on just football.
So I really like it. I'd like to see how significant
it can play a role. Obviously one football is not

(39:55):
big in the US in comparison whenyou compare it to other markets.
But obviously one football has been making the MLS access
available for USUK and Germany so.
I'm really interested to see howsuccessful it is, because if it
does work, it leans into almost like a de risks way of seeing
what the zone have done with theNFLI suppose.
And like, hey, we've they've taken the NFL game pass into

(40:17):
their platform, but had to had to pay a huge or commit a huge
amount as a minimum guarantee toachieve that.
This is a way that everyone winsand it's very fairly low risk
for for all parties involved, right.
So I I really hope it works for everyone and and it could be
give one football and at the edge on having more of a more of
those deals and conversations with other major sports
properties in the world. Yeah, well, Lisa, just

(40:40):
anecdotally, I didn't plan on coming here and just promoting
server the whole time. But one football is great for me
because, you know, we we talk about fragmentation, how
difficult it can be to find news1 football for me, someone
that's got players across the world in some of the most random
leagues, 1 football's the one place I can always go And you
know, you can get injury updatesor starting line of predictions,
the kind of stuff that quite frankly, Nick, I can't find

(41:01):
anywhere else. So, you know, for anyone that's
a football fan, genuinely just free shout out free promo to 1
football. It, it is genuinely, you know,
I've got the the Premier League app, I've got the ESPN app, but
in terms of football coverage, they, they really do do a great
job. And I think some of that stuff,
bringing in some of the content that someone like a Yahoo Sports
makes is great. It keeps me on the platform for

(41:23):
more than just checking scores. It gives me other different
things like that because not allthe teams and players that I
have are getting streamed because they're, you know,
Belgium second league. So if I want coverage and
scouting information, that's where I got to go as one
football. So it it really is a very
valuable platform, anecdotally speaking for myself.
Yeah, the, the Yahoo Sports is areally interesting one.

(41:44):
It's I, I, I, my guess and my take would be it's a bit of a
strategic move. That's a bit of a win win for
all parties. So Yahoo Sport is probably a bit
weaker on soccer coverage on their platform.
So they wanted to increase that.One football is really solid on
that, but they aren't big yet inthe US, So they needed a way of

(42:04):
creating awareness and visibility for the one football
brand. So my guess is this allows them
to create awareness of 1 football as a as a destination,
as a, as a product, as a platform, allow Yahoo to
increase its content availability on the on the
platform itself around soccer, particularly in the build up to
the World Cup. And and that's basically the

(42:24):
crux of the deal. There isn't probably going to be
a lot of necessarily money exchanging hands as much as just
there's an awareness play for one football new audience,
driving new audiences to their platforms where applicable.
And Yahoo gets a bevy of new content that they can make
available to make their website more sticky to a a newer set of
fans who might be interested more and more interested in

(42:44):
soccer than what they're traditionally known for is the
more traditional top five leagues of the NBANHL, baseball
and alike. So we'll go a little quick fire
on these last two, but one of them is bringing us into the
social media world and it's TikTok.
And specifically we want to talkabout they're now testing, doing
videos up to 60 minutes long. Now, it's a bit limited as to

(43:05):
who gets it. And we're not saying that's
directly going to be linked to sports or some future sports
strategy, but it is definitely achange for TikTok.
And I would say it's interestingbecause I think one of the
arguments that we've heard is Gen.
Z and Gen. Alpha have short attention
spans. They're only interested in, you
know, small things and the argument would be TikTok 'cause

(43:25):
you can just flip up and you getthe next video.
Well, now you have TikTok themselves saying they're
looking and doing videos up to potentially 60 minutes long.
So I just find that dynamic quite interesting that TikTok
has been blamed for the rise in ADHD and children being
overstimulated. But they're actually talking
about potentially doing 60 minute videos, which seems to,
you know, kind of laugh at that.So I just, it's, it's an

(43:47):
interesting story. Don't know if it'll ever impact
sports, but you know, it, it could.
But just what are your thoughts on that?
Well I'm not sure about how. I'm not a scientist so I won't
go into whether or not it is impacting ADHD, but I will say
that all the other platforms that exist in the market now are
basically ripping off each other.
So Tiktok, Tiktok, Instagram, YouTube, all of them with their

(44:08):
shorts and, and stories and alike are all basically
replicating each other in this instance.
And even things like X and, and Facebook, if you start consuming
their videos, you go into a swiping video scenario where you
can just scroll to the next video.
So everyone's replicating that TikTok approach.
So it's kind of only natural. I think that for TikTok to grow,

(44:30):
they have to change. They have to offer something
new. And they've been, they've been
testing different things like this for some time.
You know, 10 minutes was a revelation when they brought
that to the, the table. And they have been dipping their
toe into live sports quite a bit.
One of the the the broadcasts I saw that was really impressive
was hi, I'm having a mind black or which sport it was, but I'll
describe what I saw, which was Ithink the most interesting is,

(44:52):
is when we've seen live sports broadcast, typically it's been
in the vertical format, typically single player.
The highlights for things like the NBA's worked really well on
there, but it's in the vertical format, right.
So what they they were doing, I think it's going to, I'm going
to say it was cricket perhaps, but might not have been is they
had basically 22 kind of 16 by 9feeds on top of each other.

(45:16):
And So what that allowed is you get just that dual screen
experience. So at the bottom you could have
the live, the live stats, the live data for the match
happening. And at the top you have the the
core broadcast and either one could switch throughout.
It could be that, oh, we want tohave two simultaneous angles on
that one that one moment. It could be that there's an
interview happening. You want to some overlay of data

(45:37):
that can sit underneath. So you you could obviously way
more crafty with what that experience was to consume in a
in a in a format or in a framingthat actually works.
Much, much better to watch it. If you think about, you know, if
we've watched a typical broadcast fee 16 by 9 and they
might have let's take the NFL off to the side and some stats

(45:59):
or the ad ad work advertisement on the left.
It's a bit clunky versus if you go to a vertical format on the,
on the phone, it does look and aesthetically it's much more of
a better experience. So my point here is that I, I
think now that they've, they've been testing sports and that's
to try and test longer engagement time in a vertical

(46:20):
format for a while now. I think that's starting to bear
some fruit for them. So I, I think it makes any sense
that they're trying to expand this.
And I do think you're going to see more longer, longer form
content available on Tiktok. I think it's interesting if you
think about, I don't remember the, the platform that came as
quickly as it went was Quibi. Was it Quibi?
Was that was that the Walmart owned?

(46:42):
I don't know if it was Walmart owned, but it was basically a
vertical only platform that raised hundreds and hundreds of
millions and then just fell, fell, fell flat instantly and
they had to shut it down as quickly as they made it.
And I guess my point there is I think they were on to something
in the concept of trying to create longer form content for
that platform. They raise $1.75 billion for

(47:06):
that and they shut it down within, I don't know, within
less than 12 months, probably 6 months.
But my point is, I think this, this sort of opened up the flood
goes, hey users, you can create content to go onto the platform.
That's just a much more a much smarter way to make video
content in longer form work thanhey, we're going to launch a
network of original content in vertical formats.
So I think it's just it's just one for now.

(47:28):
Again, another one for us to watch and see if you see the
engagement going up and people producing more and more
dedicated content to to TikTok for longer form.
Yeah, for sure. And then the last one, it's a
bit of business content. It's selfishly for myself being
an American loving college football and all forms of
football actually, you know, it's a first step.
But TNT, and we're not talking to, you know, Warner Brothers,

(47:51):
TNT, you know, with Shaquille O'Neal and Charles Barkley, that
TNT we're talking about, the UKTNT now has rights to the
College Football Playoffs. So not getting the full season
yet. It's a, it's a dip in the water.
But as you know, Nick, we've talked about before why college
football is not on TV in the UK.I don't understand.
For as much money is interests as the NFL has, it just seems

(48:15):
like an obvious move. It can't even be that expensive.
But at least someone is finally dipping their toe in this water.
Well, I know you and I have talked a number of times about
how much it grinds out of gears that not only is US sports not
available in the UK the way it should be, but ESPN, things like
ESPN Plus, ESPN has a lot of those rights.

(48:36):
They could have just wrapped it into the Plus product.
Instead, when you try and sign up to ESPN Plus, you only get
access really to the editorial stuff and nothing to do with the
live sports broadcasting experience available on ESPN
Plus. And it's felt like that was such
an easy way of bringing that allto life.
So glad to see they're finally doing it.
It just shows though, right? If the, the, the size and scale

(48:57):
of the US is so significant thatit almost feels like ESPN and
those types of broadcasts, like,you know what, this doesn't move
the needle for us. This is we're talking a few
million, few million extra dollars to the, to the, the
bottom line here. That's not enough to move the
needle. We're not going to bother.
We've got other priorities to work about that work around.
That's what it feels like. So good to see that they this is

(49:17):
finally being done. And I, I really just expect if
that the US sports will be made more readily available now with
Sky's new Sky Sports Plus product and platform.
It will be interesting to see ifwe do see more of that pop up on
the platform. But again, I don't think you're
going to see Sky Sports spendinga lot of money on those rights.
So time will tell. But good to see finally those,
those US sports crazy fans like yourself will finally get access

(49:40):
to some, some good college sports, which I have started
watching a little bit more of lately.
I have to say it's it's more more entertaining than I
expected. Well, I'm, I'm just glad Nick,
because I would never want to engage in illegal behaviour,
illegal activity to, to access sporting content.
So I'm very grateful that I can watch it legally and don't have
to, you know, even consider doing something like that.

(50:03):
I'm sure you are and you're obviously very above board.
I am very happy that I part of my Revolut account that I get
free access to a free VPN now soat least I have the option to be
more flexible in what I'm I'm broadcasting.
But all within the right means, of course.
Well, Nick, it was great to be back.
Everyone else, thank you for forwelcoming you back.
And we will catch you on the next episode of Stream Time

(50:24):
Sports. Thanks everyone.
Now before you go, if you liked what you heard today, be sure to
rate and review and just let me know what you think on social.
You can find me on both social platforms and sports pro Nick.
And please do spread the word ofthe podcast.
There's no better way of marketing than word of mouth,
whether that be in person or on social media.
And if you don't like what you've heard, what you think we
should be doing, more or less ofsomething, then reach out and

(50:46):
let me know as I'd love to hear from you.
Thanks. Stream timers until next time.