July 11, 2023 • 39 mins
The Blazers say they’re taking their time with a Damian Lillard trade but do they owe it to Dame to trade ihm where he wants? Terrell Owens believes Darren Woodson should be in the Hall of Fame before John Lynch and the guys play the weekly edition of “Would You Rather…?”
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, thanks for listening to the Two Pros and a
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(00:22):
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Speaker 2 (00:32):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You could catch me in a Terry radwind fifty. I'm
doing this every hour. This is our two skirt Cherry Red, Eddie, Garcia,
Mark and Lee. Yeah, gotta do it. Am a man.
Jeff all right, that was my That was my freestyle
for the morning. If you know me, you know I
(00:59):
like to choke around with freestyles. Anyways, Good morning to
everyone out there. This is Two Pros and a Cup
of Joe Hour two. I'm with my man, Jeff Schwartz. Yeah,
Jonas and Brady while they're off, but they'll be back soon.
They're no more suspension bits anything like that. They're just
you know, they need a little bit of time and
then they'll they'll be back, Jeff. You know, but it's
(01:21):
me and you all week excited for that man, glad
to be here all week. I got my dog, big g.
I like it all right, So let's let's jump into this, Jeff.
Like we've been talking a whole lot about Damian Lillard
and what could happen in the whole Miami situation. It's
starting to uh develop and unfold a little bit. The
(01:45):
stories are beginning to become a little bit more uh,
let's just say detailed. And it was interesting because Portland
finally has has chimed in. Here's Joe cronin the GM
of the Trailblazers and what he had to say about
the Damian Lillard situation.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I think the teams that have ended up in the
most positive situation post trade have been the ones that
have been really diligent and taking their time and been
not been impulsive, or the teams that really kept their
urgency under control. So I think that's how my approach
is going to has been with this and will be
with this, as we're going to be patient, we're going
(02:23):
to do what's best for our team, and we're going
to see, you know, how this lands and if it
takes months, it takes months.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, I had my thoughts on it, but what you
got bro uh?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I mean there from from their perspective, there is no rush, right,
I think we it's very clear they're going to trade
Dame Loward, the drafted the just drafted Scoot Henderson, who
has played well in the NBA Summer League. I know
it's NBA Summer League, which just a couple of games,
but you know he he basically takes the place of
Dame Loward and obviously not the same player yet maybe
never been the same player. But they you know, they
(02:57):
they've basically drafted his replacement, right, But he's right there.
There is no rush, right, LaVar, Like, you don't have
to do this today tomorrow. And the more time you
do it, the closer you get to training camp, you know,
the more squeeze it probably puts on another team, like
the Heat to give you what you want. Because the
Portland I think is in the end. I mean they're
fine with keeping them. I mean they don't. They don't
(03:18):
have to train them. It's at the end of the world.
If they keep Dave Lillard and again rich Is yesterday,
how many how many Anya players in our life that
have ever sat out like NFL players do every now
and then, which NFL players rarely do. Actually, but like
actually like miss games because of contract issues or or
(03:39):
or or no one right, no one ever does that.
So Lillard's not gonna sit out. And I just think
that Portland can take their time in doing this. And
it doesn't help it that Lillard's people have said that
he's only going to Miami if you're if you're the Trailblazers,
what does Tyler Hero do for you? Really? Like you
know what I mean? Like it just there's no ideal
(04:02):
trade at the moment with the Miami heat that makes
the you know, the Blazers happy.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Here's my thing, I can't I know. We have Lee
efforting to see if we could find any player who
has sat out based off of not wanting to play
for the team. I will say this, this is what
I do know. Players will sit out and be on
the sideline with soft tissue injuries that that they are
(04:30):
unable to overcome and be a part of playing with
the team. We've seen extended amounts of times where players
have sat out due to air quotes injuries. Now, with
that being said, the NBA is one of those those
leagues where the players, the players union, is the strongest
(04:53):
aspect of it. Yes, they're stronger than anything else, and
they pretty much have done an excellent job for players
dictating them having the upper hand and what's taking place.
So it seems to be a culture where players can
dictate what they want to dictate. Now hearing Cronin come
(05:15):
out and say, we're going to do what's best for
the team. Of course you're going to do what's best
for the team, But how long does that take? Right
and you're looking for value, where does that value come from?
If Miami doesn't want to do the deal, and somebody else,
say two or three teams come to the table later
on down the line, they want to do a deal
(05:37):
for Dame Lillard. I just wonder, knowing how players are
able to dictate so much, how that plays out. If
they trade Dame to a team that Dame didn't want
to go to, where does this go? Where are they
at if they keep them, if they don't get rid
of them at all, where are they at?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
The question I have with this too, is the idea
that the people throw out there that the pleasures owe
it to Dame Willard. Do they owe it to him
to find him the right situation?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He said, we're going to do what's best for the take.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Well, I know, but do you think they owe they
owe it to I don't think they owe it to.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Your job is your job, man? Like you can you
can feel, sentimentally speaking, that somebody could do something nice
like Mike did. Did the bulls Oh Michael Jordan?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
You know, did they?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well? They let Michael Jordan go.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
I feel like after six championships, maybe owe him. Jam
Millard has zero.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
They showed Mike he didn't They didn't Mike.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Oh yeah. Does the mid season NBA tournament at all
make them? Dame Lillard want to stay in Portland? Like,
what if the Blazers can win the mid season tournament,
raise that banner? Does he stay in Portland? How about that?
We have all talk about that. I don't get the
point of that. Honestly, are you are you going to
watch the NBA in December now because of a midseason tournament? No?
I won't.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, I don't know, I don't know what what
are the implications of who's your.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Squad, who's your squad, who's your NBA's team.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I'm not a well the Wizards because I'm a Washington guy.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Would would would? Would? Would you be happy if the
Wizards raised a mid season we won the tournament championship banner. No,
it wouldn't matter. They're paying the players who win five
hundred thousand dollars each. So there's money involved in this.
It's a lot of money. That's a lot of money.
I don't care if you make, if you have that
is a lot of money, a lot of money. But
(07:32):
the point of this, I think is the it's a
copy what they do in in the in the soccer world,
they have kind of mid season tournament that that typically
you know, again, it's it's because it's one game with
you know, two powerhouses that play each other that they
don't have a player That feels a lot different than
whatever this is gonna be. And the NBA is desperately
(07:53):
trying for players to care about the regular season and
to make it more competitive because player, you know, I
watch a fair amount of NBA near the end of
the season, and then I watch the entire playoffs. I
think NBA playoff basketball is fabulous, but you can't convince
me those are the same sports that I see the
(08:14):
week before the playoffs and the week of the playoffs. Right,
there's two different sports. And the NBA is trying desperately
to do something for players to care because you mentioned,
you know, Dame Lyric could just sit out during the
season or just go to a team he doesn't like
and not play. They're trying to make it where that
where players don't feel that way right, where they feel
like they have to play the regular season because it
(08:35):
matters a lot. And I just don't know if this
is the way to do it. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Another thing that you start to think about is by
making the players care more, you make the viewer you know,
care more, you know, and you might yeah with it,
and you might be able to sell more tickets. Like
even like you think about March Madness, you know, or
you have a midseason Matt.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Well, March madn its is because it's a one game
of elimination, Like that's the end of the season.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Wasn't this one game elimination in this tournament?
Speaker 5 (09:04):
I think there's a pool play first, and that's one
game elimination. But again, you know, you know, if they
did March Madison December, you'd be like this is kind
of weird. Yeah, like this is not I'm a Lakers fan, Okay,
I don't care about the missis and tournament. You mean,
I'm the actual championship. We don't care about this thing.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I think it breaks it up though a little bit.
Like it's a long season, right like for football, we
we don't have to do this because we don't have
a very long season. Those seasons are there's a lot
of games for in the NBA and then basketball, so well.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
This is added. This is adding games.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
But but what I'm saying is, but maybe it makes it.
It breaks it up in a way where it creates
a level of excitement for like you said, for the players,
because it's kind of like a breakaway from from what
the norm is, the monotony of going through the entire season.
I mean, it could generate some excitement, It could generate
some viewership, some participation. I can see it. But again
(10:01):
back to the original point, No, I don't see that
being something that is attractive to Damian Lillard. And if
Portland were able to win one of those those tournaments
or whatever, I think Dame wants to have a real
opportunity to win a Championship. I continue to believe that
Dame feels as though if he was in that that
this this past year's NBA Finals with the Miami Heat,
(10:23):
they win that that series, and so he's trying to
get there. He feels like he's maybe that missing link
to the Miami Heat. And who wouldn't want to go
play for the Miami Heat, right if you could? Oh yeah,
so again, I think that the complexity of this situation
is one the Portland Trailblazers are going to do what's
best for Portland. So if they're going to do what's
(10:46):
best for Portland, and Dame is perceivably going to do
what's best for Dame now. And while people will say, okay, well,
this is why they owe it to Dame, is because
Dame has been loyal to Portland. Well, Portland's been loyal
to pay him his paycheck, so he's been loyal to
playing for them. They've been loyal to baying him his paycheck.
(11:06):
Dame doesn't want to be there anymore, that's fine, but
we're still going to do what's best for the team.
So perceivably Dame is going to do what's best for
Dame as well. And I just don't know where that ends.
I think this could turn ugly before.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
It gets better.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But there will be a trade that takes place. But
then does it get uglier from there? Does it get
better for Dame? I mean it's hard to say it.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I mean, obviously, if he goes to the Heat and
they would a championship, it all worked out. If he doesn't,
then it was all or not. I just don't know
if is Dame plus Jimmy Butler and Bam, is that
a championship?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
That's a big three? That's that is a big three?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Is that I would say that that probably puts him
head in the East over Boston, over Milwaukee as far
as a big three at least, right Yeah, obviously with
Gianni's healthy, Milwaukee's a different team. There's a different team,
So I get the alert plus two. I think for Lillard,
you know, someone who played football in Oregon for four years,
(12:07):
you know there's a lifestyle difference in Miami than Portland,
which I think will be a nice change for him. Also,
you know free agents want to go to Miami, all right,
You're not getting these guys in Portland, so you have
different avenues to win. We're in Portland, you have to
just draft and develop because you're not getting big stars
to go there. We know over the years how many
(12:30):
big stars have gotten to Miami. I mean, obviously Shaq
went there, right, he won a championship. Lebron and Chris
Bosh went there and they won championships. Jimmy Butler is
now there, so it gives you an easier way to
win and build your roster being in Miami than it
does anywhere else. And he's right, Look, the teams that
have the opportunity to trade for him, Miami is probably
(12:53):
the best opportunity from to win. And he said, I'm
not playing anywhere else, so you better trade me Miami
or or I guess I'll sit out call his bluff.
NBA teams, LaVar, you know this, man, They don't call
players bluff story often the NFL does all the time. Right,
Oh okay, okay, go ahead, yeah, all right. You know
(13:16):
you don't want to make money. Oh, i'd be my guest.
I So I'm curious to see if an NBA team
in Portland kind of finally calls the player's bluff or
they you know, they trade him somewhere else and he
doesn't playing he doesn't play, which I I guess I'd
be fasting right, No one ever does in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
They're not going to call his bluff. They're gonna figure
it out and they're going to get rid of them.
But the problem is for for Dame Lillard, what happens
with the moving him, moving him on? Is he going
to end up in Miami or is it going to.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Be the way?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yes, we'll see. I think that that's going to be
the biggest, the biggest piece of this. Where does he land?
Not not if he lands, but where does he land?
So here you go. That's Jeff Schwartz right, They're giving
you some dope perspective. I'm LeVar Arrington says, Two Pros
and a Cup of Joe and coming up next live
from the tyrack dot Com studios, Ter Owens had some
(14:07):
interesting things to say about one Hall of Fame player
versus another Hall of Fame player. They both played the
same position, but one is in one isn't. We'll talk
about it, we'll discuss it, will debate it. On the
other side of this break Fox Sports Radio, We'll be
right back.
Speaker 7 (14:25):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Welcome back into two Pros and a Cup of Joe.
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(15:22):
Appreciate you, Jeff. My guy, Taro Owens. You know he
has some interesting things to say, and I think this
is was this from his show or did he do
an interview?
Speaker 8 (15:35):
This was from the Get Your Popcorn Ready.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Pods exactly, So it came from that to Get Your
Popcorn Ready podcast, which is Matthew Hatchett and Taro Owens,
And I don't know that I disagree with what he
has to say, but let's let's hear what he has
to say.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Let's hear him outain, let's go from there.
Speaker 9 (15:53):
I'm thinking about a guy like Darren Woodson that's not
in the Hall of Fame, but John Lynch is that.
How do you abound it? Hell do you quantify that?
I want you to go research, maybe when you come back,
revisit it. Go research and see what Darren Woodson is doing.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Granted, yeah, John Lynn did some great things here and now,
but I ain't.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
No, I'm not looking for John You get me say,
I wasn't.
Speaker 9 (16:13):
Just because a guy starts on the defense and he's
the number one guy back there in the secondary for
that defense. For me, overall totality of it, that doesn't
mean like, okay, he was he's impacting what I'm going
to be doing. Yeah, he has to be accounted for
for that day because you're gain planning.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
But I'm not.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I wasn't scared of forty seven.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
All right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So first of all, I don't believe in justifying one
thing or disqualifying one thing to justify the other. Right,
I believe John Lynch's greatness was his greatness like, he
is a hell of a player, and he's a Hall
of Fame player. In my book, I think he is
a Hall of famer. However, I do not, I do
not disagree with him and saying that Darren Woodson should
(16:58):
be a guy that in the Hall of Fame. Now,
before you, before you give your opinion, Jeff, I just
wanted lead to give our listening audience just an idea
of the comp between between Darren Woodson and John Lynch.
John Lynch being in the Pro Bowl in the Hall
of Fame, Darren Woodson not being in the Hall of Fame.
(17:19):
So let's start with Super Bowls. How many Super Bowls
does Darren Woodson have? Woodson has three Super Bowls? How
many does John Lynch have?
Speaker 8 (17:26):
Only the one?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Okay, what about Pro Bowls?
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Pro Bowls?
Speaker 10 (17:30):
I know Darren Woodson has a has five Pro Bowls,
but Lynch does have nine Pro Bows.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Okay, that's a big one right there. Okay, what about
All Pros? And this is the one right here?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
All pro agreed, right and Woodson has four All.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Pros First Team, second Team, first.
Speaker 10 (17:47):
Team, while John Lynch has two First team and two
second team All pros.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
All right, so there you go. I mean the resume
is better for Woodson.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
It's a better resume for Darren Woodson. So then now
the conversation becomes I'm a Hall of Famer who made
this statement. By the way, taroll Owens is a Hall
of Famer. What's your take, Jeff.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like, well, Whatson should be in, right,
I mean, it seems pretty simple. I don't know why
he's not. I think that sometimes the Hall of Fame
voters often look at a position and just sort of
take one guy at a time there, right, and it's like, okay, well,
you know, John Lynch is now in, so we're now
off of other players. I know this feels this way
(18:27):
for offensive lineman, where it's like, okay, they've chosen you know,
one offensive lineman, We're gonna wait now to choose someone else.
So maybe there's a bias and the positions. I think
the question, you know, might have to be asked about again,
like the what the year and who gets in who doesn't.
But it sounds like what it should be. We know
at times too, that this can be a little bit
(18:47):
of a popularity contest, right, and I don't know if
that's one of the reasons why, But I think I'm
with t O here. I mean, look, I didn't play
very much against these two players. I know you probably
have more experience playing in that you know in that
time that I do. But it sounds like what's in
should should be in. And there's a lot of arguments
for plenty of guys to be in, right, there is,
(19:07):
And I think that sometimes again it's a popularity contest,
which we know it is, and it it's unfair to
a lot of players. But you look at look the NFL,
that's five guys in every year, right, and so you
have to look at at the kind of the finalists
each year and think, Okay, what's in better than to
(19:28):
your point, you should throw John Lynch out, right, But
is what's in better than the finalist for this given year?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, for me, again, there are some guys
that should be shoe wins to the Hall of Fame.
But I'm not a voter. I don't know. I don't
I've never been really fully clear on the criteria of
what you know constitutes you getting in. Again, the one
(19:59):
the number one guy that I always am, there's there's
two that I really feel should be in that. I
always say, well, there's three, actually, and I always start
off with Brian Mitchell. I do not understand why Brian Mitchell,
for the life of me, with all if you look
at his stat line, and his stat line isn't just
(20:21):
it's not hitting stats. It's not like, oh, he's got
more you know, kickoff return yards or more punk return
yards by like Miles on on anyone you know that's
ever played and he's not in the league. He was
impacting games. He was winning, they were winning Super Bowls
(20:41):
because of having that that presence that Brian Mitchell brought
to the Washington football team. I just to me that
one is mystifying. Yeah, they took a long time to
put Art Monk in and that was that was very
strange to me.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Go ahead, god, okay. So twenty twenty three, the finalists
are fifteen. Finalist Darren Woodson was one of fifteen, and
the five that were chosen where Joe Thomas, Zach Thomas linebacker,
zach Thomas, DeMarcus where one of the best sack men
in NFL history, Dale Reeves, and Ronde Barber. Okay, is
what should what'son being over any of those five?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
All right, so now here's what's interesting about that. My
gud I does up on game with me on Saturdays.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
TJ.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Huschman Zada said that Ronde Barber doesn't belong in the
Hall of Fame over some of these guys that are
getting passed up.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I originally tweeted out something like, why is Rnde Barber
he was in the Hall of Fame over someone else?
I think I turned that out and people came came
at me and I needed to kind of do some
research on this. Ronne Barber was pretty frid good. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Ronde Barber was a beast. Now five All pros.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
He had forty seven interceptions, fourteen touchdown than fifteen force
fumbles at corner. It's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
That's pretty dang good.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
He also twenty eight sacks.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
That's pretty dang good. Now, but does that compare? Does
that compare to Darren Woodson?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Well, the different positions, right, so yes, you can't say that.
So I mean Dared Woodson had seven, had seven, had
eleven sacks, twenty three interceptions at safety and seventeen force fumbles,
So really good numbers. Obviously, Yeah, he was. Again he was.
He made more First team All pros than Rende Barber did,
(22:37):
but he made less Pro Ill bros in general, same
amount of Pro Bowls, you know, But what often gets
players the NOD is super Bowl championships. Right, he has three?
Right has one? Right, So again, Woodson, I think we
all agree should be in. The question again becomes is
(22:58):
is he in? Who is he in? Over in a
given year? Right? And last year? I feel like those
were pretty deserving, you know, pretty deserving players to be
the Hall of Fame. Uh, these guys I think should
be in too. I think will Willie Anderson should be in.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, he's always a big one.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
He's like, he was the best right tackle in the
NFL for many, many years. We just don't give right tackles.
I think Lane Johnson might be the first one who
gets in. I hope what he gets it, I really do.
But I think Wayne might be the first one who's
primarily right tackle NFL. So, yeah, I he should be in.
(23:35):
He should be in.
Speaker 10 (23:37):
Yes, Lester Hayes give us his stat line. He's got
two Super Bowls, he was a Defensive Player of the Year,
he was on All Pro nineteen eighty led the league
and interceptions that year, five times second team All Pro,
five Pro Bowls.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, I want to make a quick quick question. Jackie
Slater played right tackle. I want to make sure he
gets a proper love for being the right tackle the
Hall of Fame. I made a people can come after
me that I don't on my offens alignment. He played
right tackle in the NFL. Who'd you mentioned? Is having
five All pros? Lester Hayes Lester his he's now he
would be in the in the Veterans committee group right
(24:16):
by now?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah a boy?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Now? Absolutely? Yeah, I look. I the NFL Hall of
Fame has five inductees every year. Obviously they have some
some veteran class. And we know there was a backlog
in twenty twenty where they added a bunch of contributors
and coaches and whatnot. It's five for a reason, right,
It's hard to get in. You know, Baseball does a vote, right,
(24:38):
if you're I think it's eighty percent five percent of
the vote, you're in. I don't know what the NBA
Hall of Fame, it's not even Amy Hall of Fame,
it's Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. They let anyone in
it's that one. So there's an exclusive club, right five
a year. It's it's hard, it's hard to get in.
There's guy which I mentioned this, guys LeVar you think
should be in. I think should be in. Caro things
(25:00):
should be in, but it's it's hard to get in.
That's that's why I like the n F Hall of
Fame because they do that right. They it's they limit
the class and they say, look, these are five guys
over living in every year, and some years there's more
than five that should be in. Some years there's there's more,
there's less than five. I hope Putson gets in as
soon as possible. He definitely deserves it. When you compare
(25:20):
his numbers and his play to other guys who are
in the Hall of Fame as well, Oh there you
have it.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I you know, I think there's always going to be
those debates that that rage on, uh as it applies
to who's deserving who got in. I can recall when
when Warren sat was upset that Michael Strahan got into
the Hall of Fame. I mean, there's just always going
to oh.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Yeah, old because he got in first over Sap or.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Just no, Sap was already in.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I just think that he was bothered by the fact
that he didn't think that Michael Strahan should get in.
I mean that's the if I recall it correctly.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Uh. But yeah, I mean that you're you're just all
he was going to have got through career.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Look, I don't, I don't. I just give what I hear.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, I didn't make that one up. Lee, you're looking
it up? That Am I making that up? Or is
that the truth? I believe you now you're telling the truth.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
I'm just like, what was the headline? What was the headline? Uh?
Speaker 10 (26:18):
Well, you know, Sep did actually walk it back and
apologize to straight hand, I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, But in the initial what did he come out
and say, like, the dude doesn't deserve to be in
the Hall of Fame. That's what he came out said.
I mean he said it in the media. Anyway, it
is what it is. I mean that these things happened,
you know, guy, there was a point in time. I
think Dion Sanders spoke out on it. Uh, there were
(26:46):
a few other guys that spoke.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Out on it.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
No, not on straight hand, just spoke out in general
on them feeling like there were guys that were getting
considered or getting in that they didn't necessarily agree should
have been considered or should have been getting in.
Speaker 8 (27:01):
And here was sap SAPs quote, sorry to cut you
off there.
Speaker 10 (27:03):
When you stack it up, he only had four straight
Pro Bowls and a mythical sack record.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Well, okay, if you take out the sack record, he's
still had twenty sacks that season. So let's not act
like he had a bad season. Look, it would be interesting,
LeVar if if the Hall of Fame just became players
voting for players. So I think we have a different
result than the way it's done now, even though I
think the process the way it's done now is fine,
(27:31):
it's solid. But if you just had players vote on it,
it'd be quite a different Hall of Fame. Possibly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
What wholeheartedly, Uh, I would wholeheartedly agree with that. And
and that's I think that That's sometimes what guys kind
of allude to is why aren't players more involved in
that process? I would I would be I wonder, yes.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Please, I think because we have biases on bias, So
I think that's and I think, but who does it? No? No,
of course, and I think the process the way it's
done now, they try their best to eliminate that, right,
because they have voters from all different regions or fifty voters,
and it's a comprehensive process to narrow down the finalists,
and you know you have to present on the finalist, right,
(28:21):
And so I think you you just hope that that
process doesn't allow bias it And also the other way
Roun right like Warrens have don't like Vital Strainian who
is clearly a Hall of Famer, and players don't let
him in because they don't like the guy.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Right, And I mean, come on that that happens of course,
first ballot Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Correct. I'm not disagreeing with with any of that. I'm
just saying this is my explanation for why it's done
the way it is. And here's another thing too. I
mentioned this all the time. We're we're probably like, what
a couple weeks away from those top one hundred NFL
lists coming out, or maybe it's already happened. I lost
track of time. Players don't really know who's in the NFL.
(29:01):
Sometimes they don't like players are not watching the game
as close as others are. Now now we know who
the good players are though, that's the difference. I think, right,
we know who the Hall of Fame player. I have
played with four Hall of famers in my mind for
the Juwis Peppers, Adrian Peterson, Steve Smith, and I think
Eli Manning should be in the Hall of Famer will
(29:21):
be so we know who those guys are. But NFL
players are often the best judge of who the best
players in the league are at a given time because
they're not paying attention to the entire league the entire time.
But I'm watching on film offensive lineman and defensive lineman
for the most part during the season, I couldn't tell
you who the best corner is.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Why wouldn't it, Matt? I mean, but why shouldn't we
have guys that that's what you're paying attention to. You're
going to be an expert on what offensive and defense I.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Think Willie Anderson should be in. Does my vote outweigh
your vote for Darren Woodson. That's kind of the question
I see.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
But then it comes down to like for me, I
paid attention to defensive line. I paid attention to offensive line.
Like there's there's like you said to what applies to
me is what I paid attention to. I could tell
you who I thought the best running backs were when
I played in the game, and should they be in
the Hall of Fame? You know, and I could give
them quick too, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So it was interesting about running back position. I was
talking about this at this at the Offensive Line Masterminds
I was at after Adrian Peterson will be in the
Hall of Fame. Derrick Henry I think will be in
the Hall of Fame if he continues at the pace
he's at right, I mean, he's incredible. That's it. Who
else at running back after Derrick Henry right now now
(30:38):
is going to be the Hall of Fame? Yeah, yeah,
I don't think so, right, that's crazy.
Speaker 8 (30:45):
Maybe Christian McCaffrey.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I don't think so. Oh McCaffrey, Okay, not yet. What
is he like? What has he done?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
He's definitely a fun back to watch, But what has
he done?
Speaker 5 (30:59):
Yeah? He's had you see he had I mean, look
his total yards from scrimmage of him pretty excellent. But
what's his accolades he's made? Yeah? He has no, he
has some All pro teams, He's got one First team
All Pro one second team All Pro. That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It's not bad. That's not bad. And what what what?
How long has his career been. It's only been six years,
six years, two to All pros and six years is horrible.
That's not not horrible. It's not Hall of Fame. So
that's what I'm saying. But hall of Fame standard, that's
not that's not no No Pro or no Super Bowls.
(31:33):
Only only one first team All Pro, one first team
second team All Pro.
Speaker 8 (31:40):
He was injured for two of them.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
It doesn't the well he was injured doesn't That doesn't go.
That doesn't matter. That doesn't add up. Like you can't say,
well I should, I should be in the Hall of
Fame if I don't get injured.
Speaker 8 (31:52):
Well, I'm just saying I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I'm never going to You can never use that as
an excuse like, oh, well he was injured, Like that
doesn't matter a part in it. Durability plays a part.
Like guys like Sam Mills and and and guys that
were like iron men like London Fletcher, they belong, which
I don't even think London Fletcher is in the Hall
of Fame yet he's not. He's not in all fame.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
He's barely eligible though, right because he retired and oh
he's eligible by now. Yeah, he retired in twenty thirteen, and.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
His stats are as comparable to Ray Lewis's as you
could possibly get good.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
He did retire in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, it's just always going to be a big topic
because there's always you're always going to be able to
look at and pinpoint somebody that's tremendously deserving. I just
don't like getting into the topic of one is undeserving
while the other is. I just like to keep it
to who's deserving. If you got in, you got in.
I don't I don't ever want to take away from
(32:59):
what your accomplishments led to you getting in. You got in,
You got in, and and God bless your You're immortalized
at the at the pro level. But coming up next
on Two Pros and a Cup of Joe Live from
the Tyraq dot Com studios, WO your rather, what what what?
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
(33:20):
This is Fox Sports Radio Two Pros and a Cup
of Joe.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller.
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
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off of it. Ben Maler shaw a cult hit overnights
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Why should you listen?
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Picture if you will a world will?
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We chat with captains of industry in media, sports and
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Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Or the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get
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Speaker 3 (34:04):
All right, Welcome back into two pros and a cup
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Speaker 2 (34:27):
Let's make a history and now would you rather your
random topics, sports or otherwise?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All right, here we go league, make them good bag.
Speaker 10 (34:40):
Well, guys, we were just talking about Hall of Fame candidates,
and you know one position that doesn't get a lot
of love is kick returners.
Speaker 8 (34:46):
Putt returners.
Speaker 10 (34:47):
When I've had saved for a while here, would you
rather have Josh Cribs, Devin Hester or Dante Hall or
you can name somebody else as your kick returner?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You know I've already told you, guys, I'm all in
on Brian Mitchell. Brian Mitchell isn't the no one should
get in I started there.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Yeah, you're asking me those players. I would take Devin.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Hester if I had to choose from that list, one
hundred percent. Devin Hester would be number two on my
list with with Brian Mitchell be in number one.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
I did some radio with I didn NFLPA Internship in
twenty in the March of twenty fourteen in Washington with
Brian Mitchell and Doc Walker. Nice.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
That's the dudes, man, Those is the ogs, not just
as Super Bowl winners, but they're they're like kind of
they're they're the ones you kind of try to be
like as a former player when you're done with ali too. Yeah,
they're great examples. Shouts out to doc too.
Speaker 10 (35:44):
What you got guys, I know you're both You know
basketball players back in the day. Would you rather be
giving a million dollars upfront, no questions asked, or twenty
million dollars if you could score more than fifteen points
in an NBA game, You're playing the whole game, forty
eight minutes.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
We take the money scoring any point. I'm not getting
eight fifteen points. This is these I just love these conversations.
The answer is is you're not scoring any points to
give me the give me the guaranteed money.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
This one's hard for me.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Lav Are you ain't scoring fifteen points?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (36:16):
I'm a dope bet I was in my day.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I was a dope basketball player, and I would have
probably been able to get close to that. And I
played against a lot of the dudes like I've played
against a lot of these dudes. I played against Kobe.
I played like now are saying now you're saying now
are you saying now? No, I'll give you your prime
in my prime. I'm I might take that physical challenge
(36:39):
in my prime. I might take that. I might take that.
I play au basketball, but I was not young. Yeah,
I might take that. I might take that challenge. But yeah,
in my PRIMEA, I'm gonna go for the twenty I'm
gonna go for the twenty million in my prime I'm not.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
And I played, and I played like that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I was.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I was you know what I was, LeVar, I was.
I played basketball exactly the way that you think I would,
you know, eight points, ten rebounds.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Four fouls, ten rebounds.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Oh yeah, I was, all right, I was. I was
a great I was a great box.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Out there, all right, all right, change it then change
it to rebounds. No, six rebounds.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
No, I can't. In NBA. I'm six six, buddy, I'm
I'm guarding two guards in the NBA, and I'm and and.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I'm six three, and I'm saying I'm gonna get that
fifteen prime V.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I am not. I played future college and NBA players
in high school and au ball. I'm not gonna get
ten rebounds. I played my league. My high school basketball
league was the Western League in Los Angeles. We had
Westchester High School. There was number one in the country
the entire four years I was in in at Pali.
(37:58):
Fairfax was top forty. We played them every year, play
both of them every year, twice a year. I played
pros Trevor Reesa Son Adams like, we're no, I'm not
getting ten rebounds.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
No, all right, well there you go. I'm gonna take
the challenge, Lee and my Prime. I'm gonna take that challenge.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
Proud of you.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I mean, I'm no better off than what I started
if I don't get it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Like, we get me your million dollars. Do you have
a million dollars? Did you would get for not doing anything? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But going into it, I don't have anything. So I
feel pretty confident. I come out of it with nothing.
I came close, you know. That's how I look at it.
But you're right, I mean that's the safe bet. It's
the safe bet to take the million up front. All Right,
I changed my mind. I'm gonna take the million. Yeah,
I'm take a million. Lee Next, go to the next one,
(38:52):
Go to next Funky ones. Would you rather spend a
year alone or a year without a home? A year alone?
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Year alone? Alright?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Hour three, coming at you, two pros, Cup of Joe.
Fox Sports Radio We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
Dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live
Hey, thanks for listening to the Two Pros and a
Cup of Joe Podcast with LaVar Arrington, Brady Quinn, and
myself Jonas Knox. Make sure you catch us live weekdays
six to nine am Eastern Time three to six am
Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. You can find your local
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show over at Foxsports Radio dot com, or stream us
(00:22):
live every day on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
You're listening to Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
You could catch me in a Terry radwind fifty. I'm
doing this every hour. This is our two skirt Cherry Red, Eddie, Garcia,
Mark and Lee. Yeah, gotta do it. Am a man.
Jeff all right, that was my That was my freestyle
for the morning. If you know me, you know I
(00:59):
like to choke around with freestyles. Anyways, Good morning to
everyone out there. This is Two Pros and a Cup
of Joe Hour two. I'm with my man, Jeff Schwartz. Yeah,
Jonas and Brady while they're off, but they'll be back soon.
They're no more suspension bits anything like that. They're just
you know, they need a little bit of time and
then they'll they'll be back, Jeff. You know, but it's
(01:21):
me and you all week excited for that man, glad
to be here all week. I got my dog, big g.
I like it all right, So let's let's jump into this, Jeff.
Like we've been talking a whole lot about Damian Lillard
and what could happen in the whole Miami situation. It's
starting to uh develop and unfold a little bit. The
(01:45):
stories are beginning to become a little bit more uh,
let's just say detailed. And it was interesting because Portland
finally has has chimed in. Here's Joe cronin the GM
of the Trailblazers and what he had to say about
the Damian Lillard situation.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
I think the teams that have ended up in the
most positive situation post trade have been the ones that
have been really diligent and taking their time and been
not been impulsive, or the teams that really kept their
urgency under control. So I think that's how my approach
is going to has been with this and will be
with this, as we're going to be patient, we're going
(02:23):
to do what's best for our team, and we're going
to see, you know, how this lands and if it
takes months, it takes months.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Okay, I had my thoughts on it, but what you
got bro uh?
Speaker 5 (02:35):
I mean there from from their perspective, there is no rush, right,
I think we it's very clear they're going to trade
Dame Loward, the drafted the just drafted Scoot Henderson, who
has played well in the NBA Summer League. I know
it's NBA Summer League, which just a couple of games,
but you know he he basically takes the place of
Dame Loward and obviously not the same player yet maybe
never been the same player. But they you know, they
(02:57):
they've basically drafted his replacement, right, But he's right there.
There is no rush, right, LaVar, Like, you don't have
to do this today tomorrow. And the more time you
do it, the closer you get to training camp, you know,
the more squeeze it probably puts on another team, like
the Heat to give you what you want. Because the
Portland I think is in the end. I mean they're
fine with keeping them. I mean they don't. They don't
(03:18):
have to train them. It's at the end of the world.
If they keep Dave Lillard and again rich Is yesterday,
how many how many Anya players in our life that
have ever sat out like NFL players do every now
and then, which NFL players rarely do. Actually, but like
actually like miss games because of contract issues or or
(03:39):
or or no one right, no one ever does that.
So Lillard's not gonna sit out. And I just think
that Portland can take their time in doing this. And
it doesn't help it that Lillard's people have said that
he's only going to Miami if you're if you're the Trailblazers,
what does Tyler Hero do for you? Really? Like you
know what I mean? Like it just there's no ideal
(04:02):
trade at the moment with the Miami heat that makes
the you know, the Blazers happy.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Here's my thing, I can't I know. We have Lee
efforting to see if we could find any player who
has sat out based off of not wanting to play
for the team. I will say this, this is what
I do know. Players will sit out and be on
the sideline with soft tissue injuries that that they are
(04:30):
unable to overcome and be a part of playing with
the team. We've seen extended amounts of times where players
have sat out due to air quotes injuries. Now, with
that being said, the NBA is one of those those
leagues where the players, the players union, is the strongest
(04:53):
aspect of it. Yes, they're stronger than anything else, and
they pretty much have done an excellent job for players
dictating them having the upper hand and what's taking place.
So it seems to be a culture where players can
dictate what they want to dictate. Now hearing Cronin come
(05:15):
out and say, we're going to do what's best for
the team. Of course you're going to do what's best
for the team, But how long does that take? Right
and you're looking for value, where does that value come from?
If Miami doesn't want to do the deal, and somebody else,
say two or three teams come to the table later
on down the line, they want to do a deal
(05:37):
for Dame Lillard. I just wonder, knowing how players are
able to dictate so much, how that plays out. If
they trade Dame to a team that Dame didn't want
to go to, where does this go? Where are they
at if they keep them, if they don't get rid
of them at all, where are they at?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
The question I have with this too, is the idea
that the people throw out there that the pleasures owe
it to Dame Willard. Do they owe it to him
to find him the right situation?
Speaker 6 (06:11):
No?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
He said, we're going to do what's best for the take.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Well, I know, but do you think they owe they
owe it to I don't think they owe it to.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
Your job is your job, man? Like you can you
can feel, sentimentally speaking, that somebody could do something nice
like Mike did. Did the bulls Oh Michael Jordan?
Speaker 5 (06:28):
You know, did they?
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Well? They let Michael Jordan go.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
I feel like after six championships, maybe owe him. Jam
Millard has zero.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
They showed Mike he didn't They didn't Mike.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
Oh yeah. Does the mid season NBA tournament at all
make them? Dame Lillard want to stay in Portland? Like,
what if the Blazers can win the mid season tournament,
raise that banner? Does he stay in Portland? How about that?
We have all talk about that. I don't get the
point of that. Honestly, are you are you going to
watch the NBA in December now because of a midseason tournament? No?
I won't.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, I don't know, I don't know what what
are the implications of who's your.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Squad, who's your squad, who's your NBA's team.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
I'm not a well the Wizards because I'm a Washington guy.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
Would would would? Would? Would you be happy if the
Wizards raised a mid season we won the tournament championship banner. No,
it wouldn't matter. They're paying the players who win five
hundred thousand dollars each. So there's money involved in this.
It's a lot of money. That's a lot of money.
I don't care if you make, if you have that
is a lot of money, a lot of money. But
(07:32):
the point of this, I think is the it's a
copy what they do in in the in the soccer world,
they have kind of mid season tournament that that typically
you know, again, it's it's because it's one game with
you know, two powerhouses that play each other that they
don't have a player That feels a lot different than
whatever this is gonna be. And the NBA is desperately
(07:53):
trying for players to care about the regular season and
to make it more competitive because player, you know, I
watch a fair amount of NBA near the end of
the season, and then I watch the entire playoffs. I
think NBA playoff basketball is fabulous, but you can't convince
me those are the same sports that I see the
(08:14):
week before the playoffs and the week of the playoffs. Right,
there's two different sports. And the NBA is trying desperately
to do something for players to care because you mentioned,
you know, Dame Lyric could just sit out during the
season or just go to a team he doesn't like
and not play. They're trying to make it where that
where players don't feel that way right, where they feel
like they have to play the regular season because it
(08:35):
matters a lot. And I just don't know if this
is the way to do it. You know.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Another thing that you start to think about is by
making the players care more, you make the viewer you know,
care more, you know, and you might yeah with it,
and you might be able to sell more tickets. Like
even like you think about March Madness, you know, or
you have a midseason Matt.
Speaker 5 (08:53):
Well, March madn its is because it's a one game
of elimination, Like that's the end of the season.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Wasn't this one game elimination in this tournament?
Speaker 5 (09:04):
I think there's a pool play first, and that's one
game elimination. But again, you know, you know, if they
did March Madison December, you'd be like this is kind
of weird. Yeah, like this is not I'm a Lakers fan, Okay,
I don't care about the missis and tournament. You mean,
I'm the actual championship. We don't care about this thing.
Speaker 3 (09:23):
I think it breaks it up though a little bit.
Like it's a long season, right like for football, we
we don't have to do this because we don't have
a very long season. Those seasons are there's a lot
of games for in the NBA and then basketball, so well.
Speaker 5 (09:36):
This is added. This is adding games.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
But but what I'm saying is, but maybe it makes it.
It breaks it up in a way where it creates
a level of excitement for like you said, for the players,
because it's kind of like a breakaway from from what
the norm is, the monotony of going through the entire season.
I mean, it could generate some excitement, It could generate
some viewership, some participation. I can see it. But again
(10:01):
back to the original point, No, I don't see that
being something that is attractive to Damian Lillard. And if
Portland were able to win one of those those tournaments
or whatever, I think Dame wants to have a real
opportunity to win a Championship. I continue to believe that
Dame feels as though if he was in that that
this this past year's NBA Finals with the Miami Heat,
(10:23):
they win that that series, and so he's trying to
get there. He feels like he's maybe that missing link
to the Miami Heat. And who wouldn't want to go
play for the Miami Heat, right if you could? Oh yeah,
so again, I think that the complexity of this situation
is one the Portland Trailblazers are going to do what's
best for Portland. So if they're going to do what's
(10:46):
best for Portland, and Dame is perceivably going to do
what's best for Dame now. And while people will say, okay, well,
this is why they owe it to Dame, is because
Dame has been loyal to Portland. Well, Portland's been loyal
to pay him his paycheck, so he's been loyal to
playing for them. They've been loyal to baying him his paycheck.
(11:06):
Dame doesn't want to be there anymore, that's fine, but
we're still going to do what's best for the team.
So perceivably Dame is going to do what's best for
Dame as well. And I just don't know where that ends.
I think this could turn ugly before.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
It gets better.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
But there will be a trade that takes place. But
then does it get uglier from there? Does it get
better for Dame? I mean it's hard to say it.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
I mean, obviously, if he goes to the Heat and
they would a championship, it all worked out. If he doesn't,
then it was all or not. I just don't know
if is Dame plus Jimmy Butler and Bam, is that
a championship?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
That's a big three? That's that is a big three?
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Is that I would say that that probably puts him
head in the East over Boston, over Milwaukee as far
as a big three at least, right Yeah, obviously with
Gianni's healthy, Milwaukee's a different team. There's a different team,
So I get the alert plus two. I think for Lillard,
you know, someone who played football in Oregon for four years,
(12:07):
you know there's a lifestyle difference in Miami than Portland,
which I think will be a nice change for him. Also,
you know free agents want to go to Miami, all right,
You're not getting these guys in Portland, so you have
different avenues to win. We're in Portland, you have to
just draft and develop because you're not getting big stars
to go there. We know over the years how many
(12:30):
big stars have gotten to Miami. I mean, obviously Shaq
went there, right, he won a championship. Lebron and Chris
Bosh went there and they won championships. Jimmy Butler is
now there, so it gives you an easier way to
win and build your roster being in Miami than it
does anywhere else. And he's right, Look, the teams that
have the opportunity to trade for him, Miami is probably
(12:53):
the best opportunity from to win. And he said, I'm
not playing anywhere else, so you better trade me Miami
or or I guess I'll sit out call his bluff.
NBA teams, LaVar, you know this, man, They don't call
players bluff story often the NFL does all the time. Right,
Oh okay, okay, go ahead, yeah, all right. You know
(13:16):
you don't want to make money. Oh, i'd be my guest.
I So I'm curious to see if an NBA team
in Portland kind of finally calls the player's bluff or
they you know, they trade him somewhere else and he
doesn't playing he doesn't play, which I I guess I'd
be fasting right, No one ever does in the NBA.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
They're not going to call his bluff. They're gonna figure
it out and they're going to get rid of them.
But the problem is for for Dame Lillard, what happens
with the moving him, moving him on? Is he going
to end up in Miami or is it going to.
Speaker 5 (13:45):
Be the way?
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yes, we'll see. I think that that's going to be
the biggest, the biggest piece of this. Where does he land?
Not not if he lands, but where does he land?
So here you go. That's Jeff Schwartz right, They're giving
you some dope perspective. I'm LeVar Arrington says, Two Pros
and a Cup of Joe and coming up next live
from the tyrack dot Com studios, Ter Owens had some
(14:07):
interesting things to say about one Hall of Fame player
versus another Hall of Fame player. They both played the
same position, but one is in one isn't. We'll talk
about it, we'll discuss it, will debate it. On the
other side of this break Fox Sports Radio, We'll be
right back.
Speaker 7 (14:25):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington, and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific
on Fox Sports Radio and the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Welcome back into two Pros and a Cup of Joe.
All right, listen, it's early in the day. You want
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(15:22):
Appreciate you, Jeff. My guy, Taro Owens. You know he
has some interesting things to say, and I think this
is was this from his show or did he do
an interview?
Speaker 8 (15:35):
This was from the Get Your Popcorn Ready.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Pods exactly, So it came from that to Get Your
Popcorn Ready podcast, which is Matthew Hatchett and Taro Owens,
And I don't know that I disagree with what he
has to say, but let's let's hear what he has
to say.
Speaker 5 (15:50):
Let's hear him outain, let's go from there.
Speaker 9 (15:53):
I'm thinking about a guy like Darren Woodson that's not
in the Hall of Fame, but John Lynch is that.
How do you abound it? Hell do you quantify that?
I want you to go research, maybe when you come back,
revisit it. Go research and see what Darren Woodson is doing.
Speaker 3 (16:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 9 (16:06):
Granted, yeah, John Lynn did some great things here and now,
but I ain't.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
No, I'm not looking for John You get me say,
I wasn't.
Speaker 9 (16:13):
Just because a guy starts on the defense and he's
the number one guy back there in the secondary for
that defense. For me, overall totality of it, that doesn't
mean like, okay, he was he's impacting what I'm going
to be doing. Yeah, he has to be accounted for
for that day because you're gain planning.
Speaker 5 (16:30):
But I'm not.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
I wasn't scared of forty seven.
Speaker 5 (16:34):
All right.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
So first of all, I don't believe in justifying one
thing or disqualifying one thing to justify the other. Right,
I believe John Lynch's greatness was his greatness like, he
is a hell of a player, and he's a Hall
of Fame player. In my book, I think he is
a Hall of famer. However, I do not, I do
not disagree with him and saying that Darren Woodson should
(16:58):
be a guy that in the Hall of Fame. Now,
before you, before you give your opinion, Jeff, I just
wanted lead to give our listening audience just an idea
of the comp between between Darren Woodson and John Lynch.
John Lynch being in the Pro Bowl in the Hall
of Fame, Darren Woodson not being in the Hall of Fame.
(17:19):
So let's start with Super Bowls. How many Super Bowls
does Darren Woodson have? Woodson has three Super Bowls? How
many does John Lynch have?
Speaker 8 (17:26):
Only the one?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Okay, what about Pro Bowls?
Speaker 8 (17:30):
Pro Bowls?
Speaker 10 (17:30):
I know Darren Woodson has a has five Pro Bowls,
but Lynch does have nine Pro Bows.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
Okay, that's a big one right there. Okay, what about
All Pros? And this is the one right here?
Speaker 8 (17:41):
All pro agreed, right and Woodson has four All.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Pros First Team, second Team, first.
Speaker 10 (17:47):
Team, while John Lynch has two First team and two
second team All pros.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
All right, so there you go. I mean the resume
is better for Woodson.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
It's a better resume for Darren Woodson. So then now
the conversation becomes I'm a Hall of Famer who made
this statement. By the way, taroll Owens is a Hall
of Famer. What's your take, Jeff.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like, well, Whatson should be in, right,
I mean, it seems pretty simple. I don't know why
he's not. I think that sometimes the Hall of Fame
voters often look at a position and just sort of
take one guy at a time there, right, and it's like, okay, well,
you know, John Lynch is now in, so we're now
off of other players. I know this feels this way
(18:27):
for offensive lineman, where it's like, okay, they've chosen you know,
one offensive lineman, We're gonna wait now to choose someone else.
So maybe there's a bias and the positions. I think
the question, you know, might have to be asked about again,
like the what the year and who gets in who doesn't.
But it sounds like what it should be. We know
at times too, that this can be a little bit
(18:47):
of a popularity contest, right, and I don't know if
that's one of the reasons why, But I think I'm
with t O here. I mean, look, I didn't play
very much against these two players. I know you probably
have more experience playing in that you know in that
time that I do. But it sounds like what's in
should should be in. And there's a lot of arguments
for plenty of guys to be in, right, there is,
(19:07):
And I think that sometimes again it's a popularity contest,
which we know it is, and it it's unfair to
a lot of players. But you look at look the NFL,
that's five guys in every year, right, and so you
have to look at at the kind of the finalists
each year and think, Okay, what's in better than to
(19:28):
your point, you should throw John Lynch out, right, But
is what's in better than the finalist for this given year?
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Yeah, I mean, for me, again, there are some guys
that should be shoe wins to the Hall of Fame.
But I'm not a voter. I don't know. I don't
I've never been really fully clear on the criteria of
what you know constitutes you getting in. Again, the one
(19:59):
the number one guy that I always am, there's there's
two that I really feel should be in that. I
always say, well, there's three, actually, and I always start
off with Brian Mitchell. I do not understand why Brian Mitchell,
for the life of me, with all if you look
at his stat line, and his stat line isn't just
(20:21):
it's not hitting stats. It's not like, oh, he's got
more you know, kickoff return yards or more punk return
yards by like Miles on on anyone you know that's
ever played and he's not in the league. He was
impacting games. He was winning, they were winning Super Bowls
(20:41):
because of having that that presence that Brian Mitchell brought
to the Washington football team. I just to me that
one is mystifying. Yeah, they took a long time to
put Art Monk in and that was that was very
strange to me.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
Go ahead, god, okay. So twenty twenty three, the finalists
are fifteen. Finalist Darren Woodson was one of fifteen, and
the five that were chosen where Joe Thomas, Zach Thomas linebacker,
zach Thomas, DeMarcus where one of the best sack men
in NFL history, Dale Reeves, and Ronde Barber. Okay, is
what should what'son being over any of those five?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
All right, so now here's what's interesting about that. My
gud I does up on game with me on Saturdays.
Speaker 5 (21:26):
TJ.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Huschman Zada said that Ronde Barber doesn't belong in the
Hall of Fame over some of these guys that are
getting passed up.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I originally tweeted out something like, why is Rnde Barber
he was in the Hall of Fame over someone else?
I think I turned that out and people came came
at me and I needed to kind of do some
research on this. Ronne Barber was pretty frid good. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Ronde Barber was a beast. Now five All pros.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
He had forty seven interceptions, fourteen touchdown than fifteen force
fumbles at corner. It's pretty good.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
That's pretty dang good.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
He also twenty eight sacks.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
That's pretty dang good. Now, but does that compare? Does
that compare to Darren Woodson?
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Well, the different positions, right, so yes, you can't say that.
So I mean Dared Woodson had seven, had seven, had
eleven sacks, twenty three interceptions at safety and seventeen force fumbles,
So really good numbers. Obviously, Yeah, he was. Again he was.
He made more First team All pros than Rende Barber did,
(22:37):
but he made less Pro Ill bros in general, same
amount of Pro Bowls, you know, But what often gets
players the NOD is super Bowl championships. Right, he has three?
Right has one? Right, So again, Woodson, I think we
all agree should be in. The question again becomes is
(22:58):
is he in? Who is he in? Over in a
given year? Right? And last year? I feel like those
were pretty deserving, you know, pretty deserving players to be
the Hall of Fame. Uh, these guys I think should
be in too. I think will Willie Anderson should be in.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yeah, he's always a big one.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
He's like, he was the best right tackle in the
NFL for many, many years. We just don't give right tackles.
I think Lane Johnson might be the first one who
gets in. I hope what he gets it, I really do.
But I think Wayne might be the first one who's
primarily right tackle NFL. So, yeah, I he should be in.
(23:35):
He should be in.
Speaker 10 (23:37):
Yes, Lester Hayes give us his stat line. He's got
two Super Bowls, he was a Defensive Player of the Year,
he was on All Pro nineteen eighty led the league
and interceptions that year, five times second team All Pro,
five Pro Bowls.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
Yeah, I want to make a quick quick question. Jackie
Slater played right tackle. I want to make sure he
gets a proper love for being the right tackle the
Hall of Fame. I made a people can come after
me that I don't on my offens alignment. He played
right tackle in the NFL. Who'd you mentioned? Is having
five All pros? Lester Hayes Lester his he's now he
would be in the in the Veterans committee group right
(24:16):
by now?
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah a boy?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Now? Absolutely? Yeah, I look. I the NFL Hall of
Fame has five inductees every year. Obviously they have some
some veteran class. And we know there was a backlog
in twenty twenty where they added a bunch of contributors
and coaches and whatnot. It's five for a reason, right,
It's hard to get in. You know, Baseball does a vote, right,
(24:38):
if you're I think it's eighty percent five percent of
the vote, you're in. I don't know what the NBA
Hall of Fame, it's not even Amy Hall of Fame,
it's Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. They let anyone in
it's that one. So there's an exclusive club, right five
a year. It's it's hard, it's hard to get in.
There's guy which I mentioned this, guys LeVar you think
should be in. I think should be in. Caro things
(25:00):
should be in, but it's it's hard to get in.
That's that's why I like the n F Hall of
Fame because they do that right. They it's they limit
the class and they say, look, these are five guys
over living in every year, and some years there's more
than five that should be in. Some years there's there's more,
there's less than five. I hope Putson gets in as
soon as possible. He definitely deserves it. When you compare
(25:20):
his numbers and his play to other guys who are
in the Hall of Fame as well, Oh there you
have it.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
I you know, I think there's always going to be
those debates that that rage on, uh as it applies
to who's deserving who got in. I can recall when
when Warren sat was upset that Michael Strahan got into
the Hall of Fame. I mean, there's just always going
to oh.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Yeah, old because he got in first over Sap or.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
Just no, Sap was already in.
Speaker 5 (25:47):
I believe.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
I just think that he was bothered by the fact
that he didn't think that Michael Strahan should get in.
I mean that's the if I recall it correctly.
Speaker 5 (25:57):
Uh. But yeah, I mean that you're you're just all
he was going to have got through career.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
Look, I don't, I don't. I just give what I hear.
Speaker 5 (26:07):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
Yeah, I didn't make that one up. Lee, you're looking
it up? That Am I making that up? Or is
that the truth? I believe you now you're telling the truth.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
I'm just like, what was the headline? What was the headline? Uh?
Speaker 10 (26:18):
Well, you know, Sep did actually walk it back and
apologize to straight hand, I'll say that.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, But in the initial what did he come out
and say, like, the dude doesn't deserve to be in
the Hall of Fame. That's what he came out said.
I mean he said it in the media. Anyway, it
is what it is. I mean that these things happened,
you know, guy, there was a point in time. I
think Dion Sanders spoke out on it. Uh, there were
(26:46):
a few other guys that spoke.
Speaker 5 (26:47):
Out on it.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
No, not on straight hand, just spoke out in general
on them feeling like there were guys that were getting
considered or getting in that they didn't necessarily agree should
have been considered or should have been getting in.
Speaker 8 (27:01):
And here was sap SAPs quote, sorry to cut you
off there.
Speaker 10 (27:03):
When you stack it up, he only had four straight
Pro Bowls and a mythical sack record.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Well, okay, if you take out the sack record, he's
still had twenty sacks that season. So let's not act
like he had a bad season. Look, it would be interesting,
LeVar if if the Hall of Fame just became players
voting for players. So I think we have a different
result than the way it's done now, even though I
think the process the way it's done now is fine,
(27:31):
it's solid. But if you just had players vote on it,
it'd be quite a different Hall of Fame. Possibly, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (27:38):
What wholeheartedly, Uh, I would wholeheartedly agree with that. And
and that's I think that That's sometimes what guys kind
of allude to is why aren't players more involved in
that process? I would I would be I wonder, yes.
Speaker 5 (27:59):
Please, I think because we have biases on bias, So
I think that's and I think, but who does it? No? No,
of course, and I think the process the way it's
done now, they try their best to eliminate that, right,
because they have voters from all different regions or fifty voters,
and it's a comprehensive process to narrow down the finalists,
and you know you have to present on the finalist, right,
(28:21):
And so I think you you just hope that that
process doesn't allow bias it And also the other way
Roun right like Warrens have don't like Vital Strainian who
is clearly a Hall of Famer, and players don't let
him in because they don't like the guy.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Right, And I mean, come on that that happens of course,
first ballot Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5 (28:41):
Correct. I'm not disagreeing with with any of that. I'm
just saying this is my explanation for why it's done
the way it is. And here's another thing too. I
mentioned this all the time. We're we're probably like, what
a couple weeks away from those top one hundred NFL
lists coming out, or maybe it's already happened. I lost
track of time. Players don't really know who's in the NFL.
(29:01):
Sometimes they don't like players are not watching the game
as close as others are. Now now we know who
the good players are though, that's the difference. I think, right,
we know who the Hall of Fame player. I have
played with four Hall of famers in my mind for
the Juwis Peppers, Adrian Peterson, Steve Smith, and I think
Eli Manning should be in the Hall of Famer will
(29:21):
be so we know who those guys are. But NFL
players are often the best judge of who the best
players in the league are at a given time because
they're not paying attention to the entire league the entire time.
But I'm watching on film offensive lineman and defensive lineman
for the most part during the season, I couldn't tell
you who the best corner is.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Why wouldn't it, Matt? I mean, but why shouldn't we
have guys that that's what you're paying attention to. You're
going to be an expert on what offensive and defense I.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Think Willie Anderson should be in. Does my vote outweigh
your vote for Darren Woodson. That's kind of the question
I see.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
But then it comes down to like for me, I
paid attention to defensive line. I paid attention to offensive line.
Like there's there's like you said to what applies to
me is what I paid attention to. I could tell
you who I thought the best running backs were when
I played in the game, and should they be in
the Hall of Fame? You know, and I could give
them quick too, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (30:15):
So it was interesting about running back position. I was
talking about this at this at the Offensive Line Masterminds
I was at after Adrian Peterson will be in the
Hall of Fame. Derrick Henry I think will be in
the Hall of Fame if he continues at the pace
he's at right, I mean, he's incredible. That's it. Who
else at running back after Derrick Henry right now now
(30:38):
is going to be the Hall of Fame? Yeah, yeah,
I don't think so, right, that's crazy.
Speaker 8 (30:45):
Maybe Christian McCaffrey.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
I don't think so. Oh McCaffrey, Okay, not yet. What
is he like? What has he done?
Speaker 3 (30:54):
He's definitely a fun back to watch, But what has
he done?
Speaker 5 (30:59):
Yeah? He's had you see he had I mean, look
his total yards from scrimmage of him pretty excellent. But
what's his accolades he's made? Yeah? He has no, he
has some All pro teams, He's got one First team
All Pro one second team All Pro. That's it.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It's not bad. That's not bad. And what what what?
How long has his career been. It's only been six years,
six years, two to All pros and six years is horrible.
That's not not horrible. It's not Hall of Fame. So
that's what I'm saying. But hall of Fame standard, that's
not that's not no No Pro or no Super Bowls.
(31:33):
Only only one first team All Pro, one first team
second team All Pro.
Speaker 8 (31:40):
He was injured for two of them.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
It doesn't the well he was injured doesn't That doesn't go.
That doesn't matter. That doesn't add up. Like you can't say,
well I should, I should be in the Hall of
Fame if I don't get injured.
Speaker 8 (31:52):
Well, I'm just saying I feel the same way.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
I'm never going to You can never use that as
an excuse like, oh, well he was injured, Like that
doesn't matter a part in it. Durability plays a part.
Like guys like Sam Mills and and and guys that
were like iron men like London Fletcher, they belong, which
I don't even think London Fletcher is in the Hall
of Fame yet he's not. He's not in all fame.
Speaker 5 (32:17):
He's barely eligible though, right because he retired and oh
he's eligible by now. Yeah, he retired in twenty thirteen, and.
Speaker 3 (32:25):
His stats are as comparable to Ray Lewis's as you
could possibly get good.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
He did retire in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, it's just always going to be a big topic
because there's always you're always going to be able to
look at and pinpoint somebody that's tremendously deserving. I just
don't like getting into the topic of one is undeserving
while the other is. I just like to keep it
to who's deserving. If you got in, you got in.
I don't I don't ever want to take away from
(32:59):
what your accomplishments led to you getting in. You got in,
You got in, and and God bless your You're immortalized
at the at the pro level. But coming up next
on Two Pros and a Cup of Joe Live from
the Tyraq dot Com studios, WO your rather, what what what?
We're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back.
(33:20):
This is Fox Sports Radio Two Pros and a Cup
of Joe.
Speaker 7 (33:23):
Be sure to catch live editions of Two Pros and
a Cup of Joe with Brady Quinn, LeVar Arrington and
Jonas Knox weekdays at six am Eastern, three am Pacific.
Speaker 6 (33:34):
Hey, it's Ben, host of The Fifth Hour with Ben Maller.
Would mean a lot to have you join us on
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We chat with captains of industry in media, sports and
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Listen to The Fifth Hour with Ben.
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Speaker 3 (34:04):
All right, Welcome back into two pros and a cup
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Speaker 2 (34:27):
Let's make a history and now would you rather your
random topics, sports or otherwise?
Speaker 3 (34:37):
All right, here we go league, make them good bag.
Speaker 10 (34:40):
Well, guys, we were just talking about Hall of Fame candidates,
and you know one position that doesn't get a lot
of love is kick returners.
Speaker 8 (34:46):
Putt returners.
Speaker 10 (34:47):
When I've had saved for a while here, would you
rather have Josh Cribs, Devin Hester or Dante Hall or
you can name somebody else as your kick returner?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You know I've already told you, guys, I'm all in
on Brian Mitchell. Brian Mitchell isn't the no one should
get in I started there.
Speaker 5 (35:05):
Yeah, you're asking me those players. I would take Devin.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Hester if I had to choose from that list, one
hundred percent. Devin Hester would be number two on my
list with with Brian Mitchell be in number one.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
I did some radio with I didn NFLPA Internship in
twenty in the March of twenty fourteen in Washington with
Brian Mitchell and Doc Walker. Nice.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
That's the dudes, man, Those is the ogs, not just
as Super Bowl winners, but they're they're like kind of
they're they're the ones you kind of try to be
like as a former player when you're done with ali too. Yeah,
they're great examples. Shouts out to doc too.
Speaker 10 (35:44):
What you got guys, I know you're both You know
basketball players back in the day. Would you rather be
giving a million dollars upfront, no questions asked, or twenty
million dollars if you could score more than fifteen points
in an NBA game, You're playing the whole game, forty
eight minutes.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
We take the money scoring any point. I'm not getting
eight fifteen points. This is these I just love these conversations.
The answer is is you're not scoring any points to
give me the give me the guaranteed money.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
This one's hard for me.
Speaker 5 (36:14):
Lav Are you ain't scoring fifteen points?
Speaker 3 (36:15):
Bro?
Speaker 5 (36:16):
I'm a dope bet I was in my day.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
I was a dope basketball player, and I would have
probably been able to get close to that. And I
played against a lot of the dudes like I've played
against a lot of these dudes. I played against Kobe.
I played like now are saying now you're saying now
are you saying now? No, I'll give you your prime
in my prime. I'm I might take that physical challenge
(36:39):
in my prime. I might take that. I might take that.
I play au basketball, but I was not young. Yeah,
I might take that. I might take that challenge. But yeah,
in my PRIMEA, I'm gonna go for the twenty I'm
gonna go for the twenty million in my prime I'm not.
Speaker 5 (37:01):
And I played, and I played like that.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I was.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I was you know what I was, LeVar, I was.
I played basketball exactly the way that you think I would,
you know, eight points, ten rebounds.
Speaker 3 (37:10):
Four fouls, ten rebounds.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
Oh yeah, I was, all right, I was. I was
a great I was a great box.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Out there, all right, all right, change it then change
it to rebounds. No, six rebounds.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
No, I can't. In NBA. I'm six six, buddy, I'm
I'm guarding two guards in the NBA, and I'm and and.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
I'm six three, and I'm saying I'm gonna get that
fifteen prime V.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
I am not. I played future college and NBA players
in high school and au ball. I'm not gonna get
ten rebounds. I played my league. My high school basketball
league was the Western League in Los Angeles. We had
Westchester High School. There was number one in the country
the entire four years I was in in at Pali.
(37:58):
Fairfax was top forty. We played them every year, play
both of them every year, twice a year. I played
pros Trevor Reesa Son Adams like, we're no, I'm not
getting ten rebounds.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
No, all right, well there you go. I'm gonna take
the challenge, Lee and my Prime. I'm gonna take that challenge.
Speaker 8 (38:22):
Proud of you.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
I mean, I'm no better off than what I started
if I don't get it, you know what I mean?
Speaker 5 (38:27):
Like, we get me your million dollars. Do you have
a million dollars? Did you would get for not doing anything? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (38:31):
But going into it, I don't have anything. So I
feel pretty confident. I come out of it with nothing.
I came close, you know. That's how I look at it.
But you're right, I mean that's the safe bet. It's
the safe bet to take the million up front. All Right,
I changed my mind. I'm gonna take the million. Yeah,
I'm take a million. Lee Next, go to the next one,
(38:52):
Go to next Funky ones. Would you rather spend a
year alone or a year without a home? A year alone?
Speaker 5 (38:58):
Year alone? Alright?
Speaker 3 (39:00):
Hour three, coming at you, two pros, Cup of Joe.
Fox Sports Radio We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in
the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio
Dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to
listen live
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LaVar Arrington
Jonas Knox
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