July 17, 2025 • 44 mins
Dan Beyer and Aaron Torres, in for Doug, discuss if people are overcorrecting in their assessments of Caitlin Clark this season. The guys dive into the significance of Aaron Judge becoming the fastest to reach 350 career home runs. Plus, NBC Sports NBA Writer Kurt Helin joins the guys to react to the Clippers acquiring Bradley Beal.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Box Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A very happy Thursday to you, and I am very happy.
I am very very happy erin Torres. You want to
know why I could take a couple guesses, but I'll
let you. Uh, I'll let you tell me.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I could have come in a really sour mood because
nobody here yesterday wished me a happy half birthday. No
one did at all. The card is always in the mail.
I can't speak for not a not a half birthday yesterday.
In fact, I didn't even say anything to see if
you guys would wish me the happy half birthday. So
I came here today for flesh. I came for my
(00:52):
pound of flesh. But I was softened because it's the
first round of the Open Championship. It is also errand
a day where we found out that the Seahawks and Buccaneers,
who came into the National Football League in nineteen seventy six,
honoring their fiftiest seasons in the league. Will be wearing
both teams their throwback uniforms when they play in early October.
(01:16):
Bucco Bruce will be there, the Seahawks and their old
silver helmets that were such a hit when they were
brought back last year. It really really made me feel good.
And you know what else made me feel good. Caitlin
Clark is in the news again. Can they had a
fever star? Yes, we are talking Kitlyn Clark, fresh off
(01:39):
of that huge SPI win last night of WNBA. I
can't even say it with a straight face.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Erin.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
By the way, we're gonna give you updates throughout. If
you missed any of the SP's last night, we're gonna
kind of give you a little flavor of it. I'm
not sure. Do the guys have it cooked up? Do
we have a little bit? Oh, they're working in the back.
There so so much to recap that if you missed
any of the worst TV show in the history of
TV shows, we're going to bring some of it to you.
(02:08):
Shing Gillis was on fire last night, but the whole
premise of the the SP's pretty much annoys the heck
out of me. But we'll still give you a little
bit of a flavor if you missed it.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know what the sps are.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
A good example of that is the dude who tells
you when his half birthday is so that you have
to then write down when his actual birthday is, or
you know, you feel guilty about it after So what would.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It was too much to ask?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I don't think it was too much to ask that
six months from now, now less than that, I will
be having another birthday. What I mean, Manzi's is next
week her half birthday?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Right? Yes it is? What were you more effic?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
But I don't care about my half birthday.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm sorry you.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Thank you for reminding me Dan that it's my half birthday.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I mean, my literal birthday was last week and I
got zero from you.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But that's good. That's true.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
He's got this conundrum where he's like, fourth of July
his birthday, his anniversary.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
My adversary is July fourth too. Yeah, it's the whole deal,
But you know it's your wife's birthday or something as well.
July fourteenth. It was on Monday, but you know, the
most important birthday toaurus, by the way, broke now because
of everything that he had to buy the idea. Yes,
I literally looked at my bank account this week. Yes,
thank you. Yes, it's been If July just didn't exist,
(03:22):
you know, I'd be living a much more charmed life.
But yeah, the most important day on the calendar around
this time, My dog's.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Birthday is June twenty ninth, So that's.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
The that's the big celebration. And then it just slowly
just trickles downhill from.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The dog lovely gives you a Rondov applause for that one.
Do we have a little taste of the spis from
last night? Let's let's give it. Let's let's let's get
a little.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Taste and who cares? Wow, that was my favorite one too.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I wanted to save the flatulence for later, but to
do it our one segment one go right ahead, let's
hear it again.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And the sp goes too.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, all right, all right, enough, we can't continuously play
it because I've taken FCC training. I think I'm already
pushing the limits. Caitlyn Clark, I'm sorry eron your point
about Kaitlin Clark who by always gonna miss the All
Star Game, is gonna miss the three point shootout. The
reason why she sat out last year's three point shootout
was so she could take part of this year's three
point shootout, and then she gets hurt. It seems to
(04:31):
be the type of season that it's been for Caitlin
Clark in the Indiana Fever.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, I just think that it's obviously a bummer. Listen,
she is the star of not only that league, but
you know, she's why we watched, She's why we're interested.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I do think it's interesting. I feel like.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Last year we no one could have a genuine, honest
conversation about hers too much, too soon. You don't want
to crown her, You don't want to this Why is that?
Why does she get so much attention? And now this year?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Am I the only one that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Noticing that she's kind of struggle in a little bit
this year? Point total down, rebounding total down to her credit,
assist totals up, three point shooting percentage at twenty seven percent,
down from thirty thirty four and a half percent a
year ago. Listen, injuries happen, Disappointing seasons happen. I get
(05:23):
all that. But if we didn't have the honest conversation
about Kaitlyn Clark last year, it feels like it's time
to have the honest conversation this year. And it feels
like there's almost a you know, correction of sorts of well,
we were too critical, we didn't give enough credit last year,
so we have to continue to give credit even when
it's not worthy.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
This year, I don't think we're remotely close to having
that honest conversation, That's what I mean. Yeah, like it is,
it is not to that point. And by the way,
I'm guilty of it. You're not the only one who's
pointed out the difficulties of Kitlyn Clark, and I don't
feel that I've I've been one way or the other.
And then I was doing a show with Carrie Rhodes,
who does the show on Sunday afternoons with Monzies with
(06:05):
me during football season. The former All Pro safety is
a hoopad and he pointed out some of the numbers
that you did, and I just kind of was like,
all right, dude, whatever, you know. I like, this is
Caitlyn Clark, That's what's going on. But the point is
is that if you want to have a real basketball
discussion about Caitlyn Clark, there is a lot of room
for criticism. Doug had a conversation about it last year
(06:27):
when we definitely weren't ready to have a real conversation
about Caitlin Clark, and he was criticized heavily because he
talked about her shot, the actual physical motion of her,
of her shooting motion, and Doug was heavily criticized by it.
I think last night at the I didn't want to
make it about the SPS, but how in the world
does she win Best w NBA Player? Sure like there's
(06:48):
there's there's there's no point in in pointing that out.
I get it if you're not putting her as the
best player in the national or the in the w NBA,
But when you're putting her ninth in the backcourt of
guards like that seems to be a little of extreme.
There seems to be like a sort of bias. I
also think that the overcorrection is obviously a bias as well,
(07:12):
and the reaction that you get on that side of
it is just as bad as if you heavily criticize
her or say that she's not good enough, and I
think what we've seen in the last I don't know
a couple of weeks in terms of even what we
saw last night, I don't think we're ready to have
that point because you have you know, Jamie Hill was
(07:32):
pointing out how many games she has played and those
sort of things. I feel the stats are convenient when
it's for people's argument. When it's not convenient for their argument,
then they don't go to the stats. They say different
things and the argument changes. And so now to your
point of the overcorrection, I feel that the overcorrection is
now used by the people who unwillingly or I should say,
(07:57):
unvalidate without validation. Last year, we're criticizing Gitlin Clark. Now
they have the numbers on their side. Last year it
was the other way around.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, a couple of things on that.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So, first of all, you know, I want to be clear,
just because she's struggling in a way that she didn't
last year doesn't mean that she can't go on to
do all of the things that we expected her to
do at IOWA a year ago. You know, we all
watched the last dance. I mean, Michael Jordan's second year
was basically wiped out by that foot injury, right, And
so it's not to say that she can't reach the
(08:27):
potential that we all think she can get to. But again,
it's also the honest conversation. And I swear you're gonna
laugh at this. When I saw that she won the
SB for Best Female whatever, I mean, I hate to
say it, but I guess WNBA Yes, Okay, Well, I'm
sorry that I didn't have it, you know, in my my,
my slew of notes here. But I was kind that
was kind of when the light bulb went off of like,
(08:47):
she was really good last year. Her team lost early
in the playoffs, she was awesome, She put up record
numbers for a rookie. She probably wasn't the best WNBA
player and so and that was my thing, is like
we were so oh, either overly critical or you didn't
want to acknowledge her last year. Not you, but the
hypothetical proverbial audience that watches this and covers it in whatever,
(09:10):
And it feels like, oh, man, like we screwed up.
So we have to, you know, for lack of a
better term, participation trophy her with pretty much everything. She's awesome.
She's amazing, she's this, she's that. And to your point,
you know, the people aren't talking about the stats, which
are clearly regressing. And I think it's worth noting that, yes,
she has been injured.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
But one thing about all these great athletes, no matter
who we're talking about, once you step between those lines,
yes we understand that you're not one hundred percent, but
we hold you to a certain standard. You know, whether
it's you know, I was talking to you before Jalen
Hurts two seasons ago. He was banged up the back
half of the year. But it's like, oh, what's wrong
with Jalen Hurts? Did they pay him too soon? Blah
(09:54):
blah blah blah blah. You go on to any athlete
Joe Burrow, you know, starts slow because he misses training camp.
Well what, well, why isn't Joe Burrow? And so the
only point I'm trying to make is I understand she's injured,
because I know that's going to be the first reaction
for people listening to this. But every great athlete, once
you step between those white lines, there is a baseline
expectation that if you're healthy enough to play, that you're
(10:14):
going to contribute and if you're struggling, we will be
critical of that. And I think I think people have
largely avoided that this year.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And that's why I don't think that we can have
the honest conversation. And there's also something different about Caitlin Clark.
And I'm going to use Lebron James for the example
because the example of a player that I felt was
unfairly criticized was in the twenty fourteen finals when le
Bron's body just cramped up. His entire body. He was
(10:41):
carrying the heat. He was the only thing that they
really had against the Spurs.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And it's one.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Hundred and twenty degrees in the arena, you know, midsummer
in San Antonio Esse. I've been there, retired because I
know you went to a final. I was at the
seven finals, so this was a different finals. But yeah,
it's toasty.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
There was air conditioning issue. His body cramps up.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He was carrying. He was the only thing that he
really had.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And people are like, Lebron can't finish the game because
he cramps. Body cramped up. Like when I'm in the
pool of my foot cramps, it's over. It's done with,
Like it's the worst. If you get a hamstring cramp,
It's like I was shot in the legs, right, Like,
it's just immediate. Yet Lebron like, dude, why can't you
finish the game?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because he probably can't physically walk. I bring that up
because I don't think that Lebron has been used as
a pawn by both sides. But I feel that Caitlyn
Clark has agree and so now no shame in sophomore slump.
But even though I'm saying that, I feel there's a
(11:43):
portion of the audience that is saying, well, you're on
Caitlin Clark's side, and so Caitlyn Clark is not allowed
any grace because of everything that has come with her.
And this is where the back and forth and the
choosing comes from. So I actually feel, as crazy as
it sounds, again, for all the success that she's had,
(12:03):
she's a pawn and she's a victim at all of this.
And that's why, to your point, I don't think we
can have a real, fair, honest conversation about it, because
everybody is using all of this information as weapons, either
good or bad.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Well, and you know, it reminds me of yesterday we
were in for Cavino and Rich. We talked about Belichick
versus Robert Kraft and essentially that you're no matter how
you feel about the Patriots dynasty, there's nothing coming out
that is going to change your opinion. And I kind
of feel like that's how it is with Kate Clark.
Is like, if you love her, she's awesome. She's the
(12:37):
best thing that ever happened to women's basketball. She's the
greatest three point shooter that's ever lived. Blah blah blah,
this and that, and then of course if you don't
love her, oh, it's it's because of privilege, and you know,
what does she want? And you know she just gets
too much credit because of this, and dah dah, da dah.
And I guess you know, you and I are the
only ones that maybe you and Carrie a couple of
days ago, but there aren't very many people that actually
(12:57):
do want to have the conversation and actually be critical
for the on the court performance, critical for whatever. And
I think the word he used it pawn is correct
and probably accurate from the perspective of nobody actually wants
to sit here and break down her game and say, oh,
you know, well, whatever, whatever stat whatever number, whatever video
(13:19):
you want to use. They just want to say we
either lover this is why, we either hate her this
is why, and nobody wants to kind of meet in
the middle on either side.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, the only other person that I feel on a
general major sports talk level that we talk about their
performance is Angel Reese. I'm gonna say something. I know
Nafisa Collier is the other captain in the All Star Game,
and she's a star player for the Minnesota Lynx. I
have zero idea if her numbers are up or down
(13:47):
from the year priorct same thing with Brandon Stewart, same
thing with the WNBA MVP Asia Wilson of years past.
I have no idea if her numbers are better or worse.
And so that's another part of not having a real
conversation because I feel like if we are talking about
Jalen Hurts, or we are talking we know the quarterbacks
(14:10):
in the National Football League, you know. And so that's
why it goes back to Clark again being upon in
all of this and people using their information to their
own for their own weapon their own weaponry, is what
I'm trying to say. But it's it's funny because I
just know, I know Angel Reese. We look at her,
we break her down, and we do the same with
with Kitlyn Clark. And honestly, it's funny that you say
(14:33):
that because we had a conversation last year that went
in a bunch of different directions, because Jason Stewart is
usually the executive producer of the show, made the point
that Kitlyn Clark got our picture taking with Aaron Judge
and said that this is the state of baseball because
Caitlin Clark was way more popular than Aaron Judge. I
was in Monty was in that day and I said, well,
(14:55):
wait a second, and then we did a vote around
the room.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Remember this, Yeah I wasn't here, but I remember.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, Sam was thereon he was eighty percent in favor
of Caitlin Clark over Aaron Judge of popularity. And I
guess the point why I bring that up is at
that time I was saying, Aaron Judge has this longevity
that he has been around and there is more stock
in the game. A year later, after making the comments,
(15:21):
if Caitlin Clark just say she continues this way or
the play doesn't improve, and I don't want to because
she's not an everyday player. But if this is more
the norm than maybe what she did at the end
of last year, she still made such enormous strides in
the WNBA that I was wrong about last year because
the league has just completely changed because of her. To
(15:43):
have that honest conversation maybe down the line, but the
one thing that I guess the haters will never be
able to truly shoot down and defend is that she
changed the game. And that's my ultimate takeaway. If she
if this ends up being her, let's just say, her
body isn't maybe physically meant for this. I mean, she
didn't play and unrivaled, she didn't play in that league,
so this was her really only season that she's been playing.
(16:07):
If maybe physically she's not able to do it, her
mark has been made in the w NBA.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, And I mean that's a conversation to have down
the road, but I do agree. First of all, I
do agree with that is if she retired tomorrow, if
she had, let's God forbid, she had to retire tomorrow,
the impact that she had. And I say this, you know,
it's funny as somebody who you know, I think I
probably have a little bit more of a background in
women's basketball, just because where I grew up in Connecticut.
(16:32):
You know, you mentioned Fisa Kllier. You know, I grew
up like we would have the Yukon women's game with
Alanna Tarazi and Sue byrd On in the background, and
I'm ready to it. You know, I'll readily admit no
player before her has had the impact that she has had.
And so I do think it's interesting where you can
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Say no, no, I will when you're done, but go ahead.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
All I was gonna say was I do wonder if
it's just a basketball thing, because you know, you mentioned Lebron,
and it does feel like there's a side on Lebron.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
He's the goat, he's this, he's that.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
We don't talk about the fact that in what four
of his six years or five of his seven years
with the Lakers, they've either lost in the first round
or missed the plapp No, he's the goat, he's this,
he's that. And then there's the other side that can't
acknowledge that at worst he's the second best player of
all time, and you know, we should enjoy him while
we have him. So maybe it's a basketball thing. You know,
(17:23):
we mentioned football. Football is on once a week. We
all watch it. You know, Patrick Mahomes is playing ten
standalone games every year in a way that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Most basketball players aren't.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I don't know if that's it, but it does feel
like a uniquely basketball thing.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And I'll just finish with this. My point with the
legacy is, it doesn't matter how many points she scores.
It doesn't matter with how many assists she has, doesn't
matter if her turnovers or up or down, doesn't matter
if her assist a turnover ratio is magnificent or it's awful.
It's just the fact of what she has done to
change the league. So that was kind of just my
(17:59):
point of talking about legacy wise, like she may only
be this player, but the thing that people can't ever
deny is the changing of the league. In a year ago,
Aaron I thought to myself that she needed to continue
on this rise. Sam was here that day, even said,
because Sam was even making the argument, I think Moncey
(18:20):
was as well of where Caitlyn Clark could go. And
I said, yeah, but Aaron Judge has the equity because
he's been there longer. He's that's why he's more popular,
He's done it for more years, and I want to
see what happens with Caitlin Clark. But the thing a
year later that I can't deny is, even if she
stays like this, which I hope she doesn't, I hope
this is just a dip in her career and that
(18:41):
she stays healthy, I can't deny what she did to
the WNBA, which should make her the winner of the
Aaron Judge argument.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, no, I don't disagree.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Iowa, Sam or you are you in on the Caitlin
Clark understanding that this just isn't her year as the
as the unofficial here at Fox Sports Radio, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know you can attribute sophomore slumps to injury, just
people you know, changing their game to defend her. It's
I just think that the Caitlin Clark discussion swings so
far in each direction, right, you guys are touching on
that earlier. It's not really fair to her. It's either
like far in one direction, far in another. And the
fact of the matter is, like I am going to
say that her injury should be an asterisk of for
(19:25):
why she's been playing this way. I just think there's
an immense amount of pressure on her to keep carrying
this league, and she's a year and a half into
her WNBA career, and you know, I think that the
stress of the pressure being on you can break your
body down. I really think that you can have you
can suffer from injuries just from having a lot of
spotlight on you. Maybe she just hasn't had the chance
to really like work with, you know, being a celebrity
(19:48):
and try and improve her game. She needs to get
into a certain headspace and get her body right. We're
halfway through her second year. We could see the second
second half of her season play out. They get to
the playoffs, maybe they make a run to the second
round or something. What do we call that season? We
call it a success? I think we would And again
in the WNBA Player of the Year for the SP's
is an interesting conversation. You're giving the they're giving the
(20:09):
award out in July when most sports are on hiatus.
You're halfway through her second year, so it's like, when
do you start the calendar when you look at what
she's done over a course our calendar.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, she shouldn't have won a meaningless award anyway. Last night,
you know, yeah, I don't put much stock into it. No,
I put zero.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
If I could do less than zero, I would, I
would because I agree negative nine million into.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I would say that she wasn't the player of the year.
She's the rookie of the year. Maybe for all of
the things she did bringing attention and breaking bars, she's
the player of the year in the SP's eyes. But
it's like where do you start the calendar? Where do
you start looking at the good? The good runs to
a certain amount, and then then it's like a story.
You have your ups and your downs, your triumphs and
your failures.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The funny thing is that Mantia I do want to
just quick get your thoughts and then we'll put a
ball on it. The sps are for ratings, and there
were ten WNBA teams in action last night, so nobody
of the WNBA was in attendance, So there's nobody there
to boo. Nobody there, And if you actually cared about
the WNBA, you were probably watching the games that were
being played instead of a stupid award show that doesn't
(21:10):
mean anything. And so they just gave the award to
Kitlin Clark because it's better for their ratings. I'm sure
to see if Caitlin Clark would win. Oh my goodness,
I gotta watch next year. That's the only reason why
she got it. Sorry, Manzi, back to square one. You've
always been a Caitlin Clark backer like Sam.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I have been, and I am, and I understand to
an extent when you guys are saying that overall, honestly,
it's just been an underwhelming second year for Kaitlyn Clark.
And it's been underwhelming, whether it's injury, whether it's stressed,
whether it has just been underwhelming.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Well, and I just want to reiter at the point
that I made earlier. It doesn't mean that she can't
continue to blossom. You know, I have a reference that
you know, Michael Jordan, we all watched left the last
dance like year two was wiped out by a foot injury,
and I went back and looked it up average thirty
seven the next year.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So you know, I'm not saying I'm just saying it's this.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Isn't a judgment to what it's going to be like
for the future. Is just right now underwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I agree Aaron called in an overcorrection, and I just
think that a different audience has different ammunition. Now that's true,
like the power of the stats or the power of
statistics has now switched in your argument, in your in
not your but in the biased argument around Kaitlin Clark.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
And the only thing I would say is I call
it an overcorrection. But to your point, by definition, if
you've already decided and you're not getting off of that,
then you can't overcorrect because your decision was already made,
probably before she came into the WNBA, but certainly by
the end of the season last year.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He's eron Torres.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I'm Dan byer Monci is here, as is Iowa Sam
Ryan Bersinger as our executive producer, because I feel a
draft our tirect player of the Day comes up in
a bit as well. But I brought up Aaron Judge
and while he may be sitting there in this shadow
of Caitlin Clark, should he really be in the shadow
of others in Major League Baseball? We'll talk about it
next on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports
Radio dot com or stream US live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching fs R.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Montt didn't have an update, But if you missed any
of the SP's last night, here's a little taste.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Okay, and the SP goes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Too, Okay, do we have anything outside of.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You have anything? Okay? Okay, alright, goes too okay. There.
What a waste of time the SPS were. And I
know that we've maybe wasted.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
More time talking about how much of a waste of
time the SPS were. But like, let's on our athletes again.
Who needs an MVP award when you've got this amazing,
amazing Aaron Judge. I don't think he was there last night.
I have no idea. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I didn't. You didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Aaron Judge is getting ready for the second half of
the Major League Baseball season. He's sitting there with a
career home run total that saw him be the fastest
player to ever reach three hundred and fifty home runs,
and for how quickly he did it, Aaron one thousand
and eighty eight games. Mark McGuire was the second fastest
(24:23):
twelve hundred and eighty. That is almost two hundred games.
It was more than a full season of games for
Aaron Judge to reach three hundred and fifty home runs.
He did it in a season plus quicker than Mark
McGuire did. I find that feat remarkable considering how much
I feel that we care about home runs. So on
(24:44):
the heels of us talking about Caitlyn Clark and last year,
I'm trying to make an argument on how Aaron Judge
is more popular. I'm not sure if that's the case now,
aside from our Caitlin Clark conversation, because I don't think
we're making a bigger deal or as big of a
deal out of where he he is right now, the
season that he's having right now, and what Aaron Judge
is actually doing on the diamond.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, it's funny you and I filled in, I believe
for cn R maybe Gottlieb. A few weeks ago, the
night the day after Clayton Kershaw got his three thousand strikeout,
we started talking about records that will never be broken
and who's on pace for this and what it would
take for whoever, you know who. I can't even remember
who's the next guy online, but anyway, how long it
would take so and so to get there and so
(25:26):
to have a stat like this for a to your point,
a record that is arguably, I mean, I know it's
a little skewed because of the Barry Bond stuff, but
arguably one of the most coveted records in all of sports.
We have a guy living it every day on you know,
on path to be in the conversation by the end,
by the way, playing for the.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yankees, too great point.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, I don't mean to be a jerk, and
I know everybody always defaults to the Pittsburgh Pirates or
the Tampa Bay Rays or the Kansas City Royals. He's
not doing this with the Royals on a fourth place team.
He is doing it for the one of the two
premieer brands in the sport. And I am surprised. I
actually didn't know about this until you brought it up yesterday.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's funny because my argument when talking about the pictures
is I just I feel like when they were what
only you know, twenty pitchers to accomplish the feed or
or whatever it was, that it shows you how select
the company is, and so that shows you on how
special the players are, and there are certain players who
are young in their career that are just special and
will be treated different throughout. And I feel that Aaron Judge,
(26:26):
when we're talking about home runs, is in that conversation.
So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, why aren't we
talking about this more? And I thought, were they talking
about this back in the day when Hank Aaron was
hitting bomb after bomb, where they like, he's sitting there
at three hundred and fifty home runs and he's almost
halfway to Babe Ruth's record of seven fourteen. I don't
(26:50):
think that was the conversation. In fact, throughout other players' careers.
I'm thinking back of when do we really start to care,
and it's probably around five, Yeah, five hundred, I think
that's probably the correct number. But I think Judge is
giving us reason to watch, and maybe we aren't fulfilling
(27:10):
our duties of being interested considering the type of season
that he's having and just what he's doing with home runs.
Like I could, I could understand if people like oh
I didn't realize Era Judge in the running for you know,
the Triple Crown. Totally get that, but for the fascination
that we have for the home run and what we
love and the magical number of it. I just don't
think it's getting enough PUB.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
I mean, think about this two year over year as
he hits his thirties. He turned thirty in April of
twenty twenty two, sixty two home runs that year, thirty
seven the following year. He did miss about sixty games
fifty eight last year, and he obviously has thirty five
at the All Star break right now.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So I think that's just.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It's just incredible the amount of consistency that he has
had as he hit his thirties. And you know, I
do wonder if starting the career a little bit later
because of playing in college obviously at Fresno State, impacts
it at all. But the guy is unbelievable, And you're right,
I don't know exactly why he isn't getting more PUB.
I don't know if it's his personality. I don't know
(28:14):
if Otani just overwhelms the baseball national discourse.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
But the guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
What's also a small portion of this, and it doesn't
directly go into the total number of games in the
three point fifty mark, but there's a COVID season. That
great con is that he basically lost one hundred games.
Let's just say misses twenty that year. Eighty games that
he misses half of a season, and we're talking about greatness.
(28:42):
I'm curious to see at the end of the of
his career on if that's going to end up playing
playing a role.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
I'll just say this, you know, it's funny, we don't
really factor that in anywhere else, you know, like with
Lebron just as a you know, historic all time great
It's like, yeah, I guess with the NFL, they played
a full season, so that's a little bit different. But
like with Lebron, you know, we talk about how the
season was broken up, how do we judge his how
(29:09):
do we judge I guess maybe it's because baseball was
the only one that really had such a truncated season,
And now that we're talking it out, you know, college
basketball obviously missed the NCAA tournament. College football, I think
most of those SEC teams got in about the same
number of games that they would have in the end.
So maybe maybe it's just a uniquely baseball thing, but
that was something you know, I just saw the twenty
twenty stats and kind of forgot.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Oh that's right. They played what.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Sixty regular season games something to that effect in empty
stadiums that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Year, and even at the end, it doesn't even out
because that would be in the young, you know, prime
of his career of where he could have had those
home runs, so you could have seen an astronomical number
as opposed to if you were to play, if you
were to save the energy, if we think of it
that way, or elongated his career because he didn't have
a full season. Well, I would rather have the games
when I'm been on the back end of when I'm
(29:57):
in my late thirties trying to.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Hit twenty eight. He would have been twenty twenty. That's
your physical peak.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, he is Aeron Torres. I'm Dan Byer.
Only cal Raley right now standing in the way of
Aaron Judge and that triple crown, plus what Showhey Otani does.
I feel overshadows Judge just because of the uniqueness of
show Ay and his greatness. I feel that that also
plays a role in all of this. He is Aeron Torres.
(30:23):
I'm Dan Byer in for Doug Gottlieb today on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Thanks for listening. To The Doug Gotleb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from three
to five eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotlieb Show at
Foxsports Trader dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Joining us now, or good buddy at Basketball Talk. Kurt
Healin joining us here on Fox Sports Radio to talk
hoops and so much more. I again, I tabbed you
Kurt sexual healing a long time ago. I still hope
nobody stole that title, Kurt, But great to talk.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
To you again. How are you?
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Yeah, even my wife doesn't want to take that title
for me, So I don't know what to say. Man,
I'm not sure where.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I go with it. All Right?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
What does the lead NBA Rider, a managing editor at
NBC dot com think of the Bradley Beal signing with
the Los Angeles Clippers.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
I think it's a good signing for the Clippers at
that price. Look, the question wasn't could Bradley Beal still play?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Some like?
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Bradley Beal still a solid player, even if he's declined
a little. It was the fifty million dollars. It was
kind of the issue making teams balk. The Clippers get admit,
you know, five point three million this year. That's a
good salary, and he steps right into a role for them.
Everybody in the league knew this was going to happen
the second they traded Norm Powell like this. He steps
(31:42):
right into the role Norm Powell had for them last year,
kind of off the bench, runs the second unit, can
play next to James hard and shoot threes, defend a little,
give them twenty five to thirty solid minutes a night,
and we're going to see if Biel can still do that.
I kind of think he's going to be I don't
know if he's going to be as good as Norm
Powell was last year. Who was I think people kind
of slept on that because nobody was watching the Clippers.
(32:02):
He was like a borderline All Star. He was really
good last year. But I think he'll be solid. So
I think it at that price, man, it's a good signing.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, if Lebron was going to sit out the game,
Norman Paul was the one who caught the expense of
that deal.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
The whole deal. He could get a play it in
the game. Sorry, go ahead, Aeron, No, it's okay.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I was actually going to ask the most cliche NBA
sports talk radio question imaginable, which is about Lebron James,
and basically, is there is there a market for him?
Is there a scenario where he isn't a Laker? Because
I just look at a guy making fifty three million
next year all of the caveats that come with that,
(32:39):
and I think it's fun to talk about Lebron James
hypothetically on another team this coming season.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I just don't know how that's realistic.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
You've kind of nailed it like this. Look, I just
got back because six days in Vegas was enough. Man,
I had to get out. But I I mean, at
six days in Vegas, that's what the topic at Summer League.
Everybody wanted to talk talk about it. But kind of
like you said, everybody wanted to talk about it, and
within about a minute the conversation, conversation turned to a shrug.
Because Lebron has a no trade clause, so he's not
(33:10):
going to go first off. Historically has never given money back,
right like he's he's not like, hey, hey, I don't
need all fifty million. No, that's not how Lebron has
ever operated. And he signed the contract, he gets his money.
The other part of that is, since he has the
no trade clause, he completely controls the process and where
he's going to go. And he's only going to go
(33:31):
to a couple of teams, like he might be open
to New York or Cleveland, or you know, you can
come up with a couple where he might be interested,
but then put together a trade and it falls apart quickly,
like there's just no Cleveland is a favorite example, Like
a lot of fans wanted to go back there. They
are over the second apron, which means they can't even
aggregate players in that trade. It has to be a
one for one swap of almost exact money. They can't
(33:52):
take back more money. The Lakers can't really take back
more money. There's just no deal to be made. And
it's kind of that way across the board everywhere you look.
So I know it's been written about. I kind of
followed up with what Dan Roiki wrote, But everybody assumes
right now he is a Laker, probably all of next
season now next summer. Then it gets interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
KURTI, He'll enjoining us here on Fox Sports Radio. He's
erin Torres. I'm Dan byer in for Doug Gottlieb. I
was here the morning that Lebron opted in and ended
up not getting an extension or getting a one and
one from the Lakers. How much did that catch the
rest of the league off guard? Because that's my thought, Kurt.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, that no other
(34:34):
team was built or ready to maybe have Lebron this season.
How much did that play into it in the other
teams being surprised?
Speaker 7 (34:44):
There were teams with some optionality there just because everybody
was everybody was still playing the what about Yannis game? Right,
And there was plenty of market for Yannis at a
similar price point, just because at this point in their careers,
with Yannis being like ten years younger, he's just better, right,
Like Gianness is still a guy you can build a
championship team around. So there was some optionality, but there
(35:08):
wasn't much. And I think you got it right when
the reaction around the league was largely, oh, he opted in.
Doesn't He didn't use his leverage to get a second
year or anything. He just opted in and released what
was a who was gonna call it a passive aggressive statement,
a semi aggressive statement. It was a little more than passive.
Through Rich Paul, it really read around the league as like,
(35:30):
I'm not happy not being like he's been the focus
of every team he's ever been on. Right, he's been
the focus and he's not now, and it's kind of
a weird vibe for him.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
I think.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, No, I actually I was talking to my wife
about this exact thing. We live in LA and I
was kind of explaining, like it's just the first time
since he was sixteen that everything isn't built around him. Actually,
I don't want to turn this into a lebron segment,
but I think it's inevitable. I will ask you because
I feel like, and I know I believe you at
least used to live in southern California. Kurr, Okay, Yeah,
(36:01):
I wanted to ask you because I do think living
in LA. I'm not a born and bred LA or
Lakers fan whatever. I think it's an interesting conversation about
what his legacy would be, assuming that nothing crazy happens
and what we assume is his final season next year,
because yes, he brought a title to the city, Yes
they made a Western Conference finals, but you could correct us.
(36:21):
I mean multiple miss playoffs, multiple first round exits, including
this year, and we know what the standard of the
Lakers is with all of the all time greats. I
would just be curious if next season goes as planned
they don't win a championship because I don't think they're
among the favorites. What do you think his legacy specifically
as a Laker will be to that specific fan base?
Speaker 7 (36:42):
Yeah, first off, they're not winning a championship this year
without some changes. Really, the only thing they lack is
defense and shooting.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Doug's famous line is other than that, Missus Lincoln, how
is the show.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Pretty pretty much the same thing as a Laker. It's
a second tier thing, right, Like he did bring a championship.
He was the face of the franchise for a while
for years and filled the building. But he's not gonna
be Kobe Magic Shack, you know one, Jerry West. He's
(37:24):
a little ahead of Eddie, He's behind George Mikens still there.
It's but it's kind of a second tier thing largely
because of just he was. I mean, he's been with
the Lakers. This would be the eighth season I believe,
so It's not like it's no time, but it is.
It is one ring, and it's not quite the same
(37:45):
iconic legacy that you know, Kobe spent his entire career
there and did all this magic, spent his entire career
there and did you know West, same thing. So it's
just a little bit of a different vibe because Lebron
bounced around a little.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Bit like that.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
So I would say that's kind of the differ, friends,
but it is definitely second with the Lakers alone, it's
second tier. Winning that championship in LA And how well
he's still playing at age forty is part really part
of and kind of at the heart that legacy and
how good he's been for so long is at the
legacy of his goat argument right like that he's still, Yeah,
(38:19):
he's still I was putting together my vote lest year.
I'm like, he's second team All NBA. He is still
a top ten player in the league at forty, and
that's insane.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Kurt Hellen joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. He's
erin Torres. I'm Dan byer in for Doug kur At,
the lead NBA writer for embass sports dot Com covering
the association. I do have some summer league questions. But
I've got one more of a big name in the NBA,
and it's this latest profile put out by ESPN on
Joel Embiid in the seventy six ers. Now you got
Paul George with another knee surgery. Things doesn't seem to
(38:52):
be a great offseason for Philadelphia, although draft wise they
could be working out all right. But where are the
six at this point? And should there be any concern
that Joel Embiid's worried about locker room leaks as opposed
to maybe his health and everything next season?
Speaker 7 (39:09):
Yeah, you should be worried about everything with the Sixers,
locker room leaks, knees hips, feet, you know. I guys,
I'm honestly for later tonight or tomorrow. I was putting
together my NBA Power rankings that have come out, Like
I said, later tonight or tomorrow morning, depending on what
my editor wants. But I have them. I think fourteenth
(39:31):
in the middle, and I'm like, this is either too
high or too low. And I don't know. I don't
know what to do with that team because if it clicks,
like you said, look, VJ. Edge Combs really nice, really
athletic from people who haven't got to see him play. Stylistically,
he's not as good as Anthony Edwards, but he plays
with that kind of downhill athletic force, like he's that
(39:53):
style of player. You put him back there with Jared
McCain and and they're point guard and suddenly you've got
like a really nice combo. But it all still hinges
on Embiid and Paul George, like with Tyres Maxy. They
got a future with those guys, but it's still all
about George and Embiid being healthy and now they're having
both having some off seat, you know, coming back, and
(40:13):
I don't know if we're gonna be ready for training camp,
And yeah, I don't know, man, I genuinely don't know
what to do with that team.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
All I was gonna say last one for me. You
mentioned the power rank. He's certainly not going to ask
you to reveal too much. But is there a team
that maybe maybe you're either a little bit higher on
or a little bit lower on than the consensus.
Speaker 7 (40:32):
Then the consensus. I'm really high on Orlando. I think
they're I think they're third in the East and climbing fast.
The Desmond Bane pickup was great. They got some shooting
to go, Tyas Jones was kind of a perfect little
backup point guard fit. I really like where that team
is headed. The other team who had a really good
off season in the East, and the East just feels
(40:55):
more open. Like Houston had a great offseason and everybody
knows it and they're contenders. But Atlanta had a really
nice offseason, guys, and like suddenly they get Jalen Johnson
backed and healthy, which would be huge because he was
monster last year until he got injured. They got some
better depth and everything around them. And if Poorzing, like
(41:16):
if porzingis is healthy, man, that's another team to be
top four and a kind of a threat in the
playoffs in the East because they've got all the pieces.
If they can just if it just comes together right
for Quinn Snyder, I'm really intrigued by them.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Atlanta and Orlando a new world Eastern conference in the NBA.
All right, before we let you go, Curtie Elin, after
six days in Vegas, what are your what's your biggest
summer league takeaway from what you saw in Sin City?
Speaker 7 (41:47):
Oh wow, look at the top of the list. I'll
give you the one Cooper Flag is as good as
the hype. Like he was struggled a little with his
shot in his first game, Carta Bryant did a defensive
job on him for the Spurs for a stretch, but
the end of the day, what's great about him is
like even when his shot wasn't falling, his floor is
(42:09):
like multiple time All Star because he just defends and
he hustles and he gets points in transition and he
can do all this. He does everything else well. And
if like your concern is just like he's got to
work on his handles and his his you know, ability
to create offense, A little like that will come so
he lives up to the hype. I'll tell you the
other guy who's just fun, Yang Hansen, the Chinese. Like
(42:32):
we all went who what seem like he's a second
round pick. I like, he's got to get a lot stronger.
His defense is as bad as advertised. It's it's an issue.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
He's fun, you said, you said, Carter Bryant, I thought,
well lost of what he did for San Antonio.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
I love that pick. Again, there's a guy where the
offense needs to come along. But the fact that you're
going to go out on on with the what they've
got out there, Like the Fox is a pretty good defender.
People kind of forget you're gonna get around Fox, or
you're gonna have to fight around Dylan Harper, who's long
and athletic and a really good defender. Or you get
by Carter Bryant on the wing and you're like, man,
(43:10):
that was a lot of work. Oh it's Wemby. Sure,
that's gonna be a top ten defensive team this year.
And as their offense starts to click, like when you
talk to people in Vegas about like the future, and
everybody's like, right now, right, you got to get past
Oklahoma City, and did Houston do enough to Denver, who
had a great offseason doing enough? You start talking two
(43:32):
or three years down the line, they're all like, yeah, no,
san Antonio, it's gonna be so good when it all
They've got a lot of good young players. Wemby started
starting to figure it out. He's ten best player in
the world. He's gonna win Defensive Player of the Year,
and he's still got so much more growth, Like it's, yeah,
that's gonna be a beast down there in a couple
of years. Man.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, both at growth as a professional and maybe scaringly enough,
maybe physically. Who knows, but Kurt Healing, thanks so much
for the time. Yeah, grows anymore. I don't know what
we're gonna get from Wemby, but uh.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
He's not gonna be able to fit in any shell.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Keep growing.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Very very well, Kurt, Thanks for the time. I always
love talking you enjoy the rest of the summer.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (44:13):
Take care man.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Kurt Healing, lead NBA writer for embercsports dot com. He's
erin Torres. I'm dan Byer
Thanks for listening to the best of the Doug Gottlieb
Show podcast. Be sure to catch us live every weekday
three to five Eastern twelve two Pacific on Box Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gottlieb Show at
boxsports radio dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
A very happy Thursday to you, and I am very happy.
I am very very happy erin Torres. You want to
know why I could take a couple guesses, but I'll
let you. Uh, I'll let you tell me.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Well.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I could have come in a really sour mood because
nobody here yesterday wished me a happy half birthday. No
one did at all. The card is always in the mail.
I can't speak for not a not a half birthday yesterday.
In fact, I didn't even say anything to see if
you guys would wish me the happy half birthday. So
I came here today for flesh. I came for my
(00:52):
pound of flesh. But I was softened because it's the
first round of the Open Championship. It is also errand
a day where we found out that the Seahawks and Buccaneers,
who came into the National Football League in nineteen seventy six,
honoring their fiftiest seasons in the league. Will be wearing
both teams their throwback uniforms when they play in early October.
(01:16):
Bucco Bruce will be there, the Seahawks and their old
silver helmets that were such a hit when they were
brought back last year. It really really made me feel good.
And you know what else made me feel good. Caitlin
Clark is in the news again. Can they had a
fever star? Yes, we are talking Kitlyn Clark, fresh off
(01:39):
of that huge SPI win last night of WNBA. I
can't even say it with a straight face.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Erin.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
By the way, we're gonna give you updates throughout. If
you missed any of the SP's last night, we're gonna
kind of give you a little flavor of it. I'm
not sure. Do the guys have it cooked up? Do
we have a little bit? Oh, they're working in the back.
There so so much to recap that if you missed
any of the worst TV show in the history of
TV shows, we're going to bring some of it to you.
(02:08):
Shing Gillis was on fire last night, but the whole
premise of the the SP's pretty much annoys the heck
out of me. But we'll still give you a little
bit of a flavor if you missed it.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
You know what the sps are.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
A good example of that is the dude who tells
you when his half birthday is so that you have
to then write down when his actual birthday is, or
you know, you feel guilty about it after So what would.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
It was too much to ask?
Speaker 2 (02:31):
I don't think it was too much to ask that
six months from now, now less than that, I will
be having another birthday. What I mean, Manzi's is next
week her half birthday?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Right? Yes it is? What were you more effic?
Speaker 5 (02:43):
But I don't care about my half birthday.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
I'm sorry you.
Speaker 5 (02:45):
Thank you for reminding me Dan that it's my half birthday.
Speaker 4 (02:48):
I mean, my literal birthday was last week and I
got zero from you.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
But that's good. That's true.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
He's got this conundrum where he's like, fourth of July
his birthday, his anniversary.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
My adversary is July fourth too. Yeah, it's the whole deal,
But you know it's your wife's birthday or something as well.
July fourteenth. It was on Monday, but you know, the
most important birthday toaurus, by the way, broke now because
of everything that he had to buy the idea. Yes,
I literally looked at my bank account this week. Yes,
thank you. Yes, it's been If July just didn't exist,
(03:22):
you know, I'd be living a much more charmed life.
But yeah, the most important day on the calendar around
this time, My dog's.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
Birthday is June twenty ninth, So that's.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
The that's the big celebration. And then it just slowly
just trickles downhill from.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
The dog lovely gives you a Rondov applause for that one.
Do we have a little taste of the spis from
last night? Let's let's give it. Let's let's let's get
a little.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Taste and who cares? Wow, that was my favorite one too.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I wanted to save the flatulence for later, but to
do it our one segment one go right ahead, let's
hear it again.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
And the sp goes too.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Okay, all right, all right, enough, we can't continuously play
it because I've taken FCC training. I think I'm already
pushing the limits. Caitlyn Clark, I'm sorry eron your point
about Kaitlin Clark who by always gonna miss the All
Star Game, is gonna miss the three point shootout. The
reason why she sat out last year's three point shootout
was so she could take part of this year's three
point shootout, and then she gets hurt. It seems to
(04:31):
be the type of season that it's been for Caitlin
Clark in the Indiana Fever.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, I just think that it's obviously a bummer. Listen,
she is the star of not only that league, but
you know, she's why we watched, She's why we're interested.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
I do think it's interesting. I feel like.
Speaker 4 (04:47):
Last year we no one could have a genuine, honest
conversation about hers too much, too soon. You don't want
to crown her, You don't want to this Why is that?
Why does she get so much attention? And now this year?
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Am I the only one that.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Noticing that she's kind of struggle in a little bit
this year? Point total down, rebounding total down to her credit,
assist totals up, three point shooting percentage at twenty seven percent,
down from thirty thirty four and a half percent a
year ago. Listen, injuries happen, Disappointing seasons happen. I get
(05:23):
all that. But if we didn't have the honest conversation
about Kaitlyn Clark last year, it feels like it's time
to have the honest conversation this year. And it feels
like there's almost a you know, correction of sorts of well,
we were too critical, we didn't give enough credit last year,
so we have to continue to give credit even when
it's not worthy.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
This year, I don't think we're remotely close to having
that honest conversation, That's what I mean. Yeah, like it is,
it is not to that point. And by the way,
I'm guilty of it. You're not the only one who's
pointed out the difficulties of Kitlyn Clark, and I don't
feel that I've I've been one way or the other.
And then I was doing a show with Carrie Rhodes,
who does the show on Sunday afternoons with Monzies with
(06:05):
me during football season. The former All Pro safety is
a hoopad and he pointed out some of the numbers
that you did, and I just kind of was like,
all right, dude, whatever, you know. I like, this is
Caitlyn Clark, That's what's going on. But the point is
is that if you want to have a real basketball
discussion about Caitlyn Clark, there is a lot of room
for criticism. Doug had a conversation about it last year
(06:27):
when we definitely weren't ready to have a real conversation
about Caitlin Clark, and he was criticized heavily because he
talked about her shot, the actual physical motion of her,
of her shooting motion, and Doug was heavily criticized by it.
I think last night at the I didn't want to
make it about the SPS, but how in the world
does she win Best w NBA Player? Sure like there's
(06:48):
there's there's there's no point in in pointing that out.
I get it if you're not putting her as the
best player in the national or the in the w NBA,
But when you're putting her ninth in the backcourt of
guards like that seems to be a little of extreme.
There seems to be like a sort of bias. I
also think that the overcorrection is obviously a bias as well,
(07:12):
and the reaction that you get on that side of
it is just as bad as if you heavily criticize
her or say that she's not good enough, and I
think what we've seen in the last I don't know
a couple of weeks in terms of even what we
saw last night, I don't think we're ready to have
that point because you have you know, Jamie Hill was
(07:32):
pointing out how many games she has played and those
sort of things. I feel the stats are convenient when
it's for people's argument. When it's not convenient for their argument,
then they don't go to the stats. They say different
things and the argument changes. And so now to your
point of the overcorrection, I feel that the overcorrection is
now used by the people who unwillingly or I should say,
(07:57):
unvalidate without validation. Last year, we're criticizing Gitlin Clark. Now
they have the numbers on their side. Last year it
was the other way around.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah, a couple of things on that.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
So, first of all, you know, I want to be clear,
just because she's struggling in a way that she didn't
last year doesn't mean that she can't go on to
do all of the things that we expected her to
do at IOWA a year ago. You know, we all
watched the last dance. I mean, Michael Jordan's second year
was basically wiped out by that foot injury, right, And
so it's not to say that she can't reach the
(08:27):
potential that we all think she can get to. But again,
it's also the honest conversation. And I swear you're gonna
laugh at this. When I saw that she won the
SB for Best Female whatever, I mean, I hate to
say it, but I guess WNBA Yes, Okay, Well, I'm
sorry that I didn't have it, you know, in my my,
my slew of notes here. But I was kind that
was kind of when the light bulb went off of like,
(08:47):
she was really good last year. Her team lost early
in the playoffs, she was awesome, She put up record
numbers for a rookie. She probably wasn't the best WNBA
player and so and that was my thing, is like
we were so oh, either overly critical or you didn't
want to acknowledge her last year. Not you, but the
hypothetical proverbial audience that watches this and covers it in whatever,
(09:10):
And it feels like, oh, man, like we screwed up.
So we have to, you know, for lack of a
better term, participation trophy her with pretty much everything. She's awesome.
She's amazing, she's this, she's that. And to your point,
you know, the people aren't talking about the stats, which
are clearly regressing. And I think it's worth noting that, yes,
she has been injured.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
But one thing about all these great athletes, no matter
who we're talking about, once you step between those lines,
yes we understand that you're not one hundred percent, but
we hold you to a certain standard. You know, whether
it's you know, I was talking to you before Jalen
Hurts two seasons ago. He was banged up the back
half of the year. But it's like, oh, what's wrong
with Jalen Hurts? Did they pay him too soon? Blah
(09:54):
blah blah blah blah. You go on to any athlete
Joe Burrow, you know, starts slow because he misses training camp.
Well what, well, why isn't Joe Burrow? And so the
only point I'm trying to make is I understand she's injured,
because I know that's going to be the first reaction
for people listening to this. But every great athlete, once
you step between those white lines, there is a baseline
expectation that if you're healthy enough to play, that you're
(10:14):
going to contribute and if you're struggling, we will be
critical of that. And I think I think people have
largely avoided that this year.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And that's why I don't think that we can have
the honest conversation. And there's also something different about Caitlin Clark.
And I'm going to use Lebron James for the example
because the example of a player that I felt was
unfairly criticized was in the twenty fourteen finals when le
Bron's body just cramped up. His entire body. He was
(10:41):
carrying the heat. He was the only thing that they
really had against the Spurs.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
And it's one.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Hundred and twenty degrees in the arena, you know, midsummer
in San Antonio Esse. I've been there, retired because I
know you went to a final. I was at the
seven finals, so this was a different finals. But yeah,
it's toasty.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
There was air conditioning issue. His body cramps up.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
He was carrying. He was the only thing that he
really had.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And people are like, Lebron can't finish the game because
he cramps. Body cramped up. Like when I'm in the
pool of my foot cramps, it's over. It's done with,
Like it's the worst. If you get a hamstring cramp,
It's like I was shot in the legs, right, Like,
it's just immediate. Yet Lebron like, dude, why can't you
finish the game?
Speaker 3 (11:22):
Ah?
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Because he probably can't physically walk. I bring that up
because I don't think that Lebron has been used as
a pawn by both sides. But I feel that Caitlyn
Clark has agree and so now no shame in sophomore slump.
But even though I'm saying that, I feel there's a
(11:43):
portion of the audience that is saying, well, you're on
Caitlin Clark's side, and so Caitlyn Clark is not allowed
any grace because of everything that has come with her.
And this is where the back and forth and the
choosing comes from. So I actually feel, as crazy as
it sounds, again, for all the success that she's had,
(12:03):
she's a pawn and she's a victim at all of this.
And that's why, to your point, I don't think we
can have a real, fair, honest conversation about it, because
everybody is using all of this information as weapons, either
good or bad.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Well, and you know, it reminds me of yesterday we
were in for Cavino and Rich. We talked about Belichick
versus Robert Kraft and essentially that you're no matter how
you feel about the Patriots dynasty, there's nothing coming out
that is going to change your opinion. And I kind
of feel like that's how it is with Kate Clark.
Is like, if you love her, she's awesome. She's the
(12:37):
best thing that ever happened to women's basketball. She's the
greatest three point shooter that's ever lived. Blah blah blah,
this and that, and then of course if you don't
love her, oh, it's it's because of privilege, and you know,
what does she want? And you know she just gets
too much credit because of this, and dah dah, da dah.
And I guess you know, you and I are the
only ones that maybe you and Carrie a couple of
days ago, but there aren't very many people that actually
(12:57):
do want to have the conversation and actually be critical
for the on the court performance, critical for whatever. And
I think the word he used it pawn is correct
and probably accurate from the perspective of nobody actually wants
to sit here and break down her game and say, oh,
you know, well, whatever, whatever stat whatever number, whatever video
(13:19):
you want to use. They just want to say we
either lover this is why, we either hate her this
is why, and nobody wants to kind of meet in
the middle on either side.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Well, the only other person that I feel on a
general major sports talk level that we talk about their
performance is Angel Reese. I'm gonna say something. I know
Nafisa Collier is the other captain in the All Star Game,
and she's a star player for the Minnesota Lynx. I
have zero idea if her numbers are up or down
(13:47):
from the year priorct same thing with Brandon Stewart, same
thing with the WNBA MVP Asia Wilson of years past.
I have no idea if her numbers are better or worse.
And so that's another part of not having a real
conversation because I feel like if we are talking about
Jalen Hurts, or we are talking we know the quarterbacks
(14:10):
in the National Football League, you know. And so that's
why it goes back to Clark again being upon in
all of this and people using their information to their
own for their own weapon their own weaponry, is what
I'm trying to say. But it's it's funny because I
just know, I know Angel Reese. We look at her,
we break her down, and we do the same with
with Kitlyn Clark. And honestly, it's funny that you say
(14:33):
that because we had a conversation last year that went
in a bunch of different directions, because Jason Stewart is
usually the executive producer of the show, made the point
that Kitlyn Clark got our picture taking with Aaron Judge
and said that this is the state of baseball because
Caitlin Clark was way more popular than Aaron Judge. I
was in Monty was in that day and I said, well,
(14:55):
wait a second, and then we did a vote around
the room.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Remember this, Yeah I wasn't here, but I remember.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Yeah, Sam was thereon he was eighty percent in favor
of Caitlin Clark over Aaron Judge of popularity. And I
guess the point why I bring that up is at
that time I was saying, Aaron Judge has this longevity
that he has been around and there is more stock
in the game. A year later, after making the comments,
(15:21):
if Caitlin Clark just say she continues this way or
the play doesn't improve, and I don't want to because
she's not an everyday player. But if this is more
the norm than maybe what she did at the end
of last year, she still made such enormous strides in
the WNBA that I was wrong about last year because
the league has just completely changed because of her. To
(15:43):
have that honest conversation maybe down the line, but the
one thing that I guess the haters will never be
able to truly shoot down and defend is that she
changed the game. And that's my ultimate takeaway. If she
if this ends up being her, let's just say, her
body isn't maybe physically meant for this. I mean, she
didn't play and unrivaled, she didn't play in that league,
so this was her really only season that she's been playing.
(16:07):
If maybe physically she's not able to do it, her
mark has been made in the w NBA.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Yeah, And I mean that's a conversation to have down
the road, but I do agree. First of all, I
do agree with that is if she retired tomorrow, if
she had, let's God forbid, she had to retire tomorrow,
the impact that she had. And I say this, you know,
it's funny as somebody who you know, I think I
probably have a little bit more of a background in
women's basketball, just because where I grew up in Connecticut.
(16:32):
You know, you mentioned Fisa Kllier. You know, I grew
up like we would have the Yukon women's game with
Alanna Tarazi and Sue byrd On in the background, and
I'm ready to it. You know, I'll readily admit no
player before her has had the impact that she has had.
And so I do think it's interesting where you can
go ahead.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Say no, no, I will when you're done, but go ahead.
Speaker 4 (16:50):
All I was gonna say was I do wonder if
it's just a basketball thing, because you know, you mentioned Lebron,
and it does feel like there's a side on Lebron.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
He's the goat, he's this, he's that.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
We don't talk about the fact that in what four
of his six years or five of his seven years
with the Lakers, they've either lost in the first round
or missed the plapp No, he's the goat, he's this,
he's that. And then there's the other side that can't
acknowledge that at worst he's the second best player of
all time, and you know, we should enjoy him while
we have him. So maybe it's a basketball thing. You know,
(17:23):
we mentioned football. Football is on once a week. We
all watch it. You know, Patrick Mahomes is playing ten
standalone games every year in a way that.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Most basketball players aren't.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
I don't know if that's it, but it does feel
like a uniquely basketball thing.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And I'll just finish with this. My point with the
legacy is, it doesn't matter how many points she scores.
It doesn't matter with how many assists she has, doesn't
matter if her turnovers or up or down, doesn't matter
if her assist a turnover ratio is magnificent or it's awful.
It's just the fact of what she has done to
change the league. So that was kind of just my
(17:59):
point of talking about legacy wise, like she may only
be this player, but the thing that people can't ever
deny is the changing of the league. In a year ago,
Aaron I thought to myself that she needed to continue
on this rise. Sam was here that day, even said,
because Sam was even making the argument, I think Moncey
(18:20):
was as well of where Caitlyn Clark could go. And
I said, yeah, but Aaron Judge has the equity because
he's been there longer. He's that's why he's more popular,
He's done it for more years, and I want to
see what happens with Caitlin Clark. But the thing a
year later that I can't deny is, even if she
stays like this, which I hope she doesn't, I hope
this is just a dip in her career and that
(18:41):
she stays healthy, I can't deny what she did to
the WNBA, which should make her the winner of the
Aaron Judge argument.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, no, I don't disagree.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Iowa, Sam or you are you in on the Caitlin
Clark understanding that this just isn't her year as the
as the unofficial here at Fox Sports Radio, Yeah.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
You know you can attribute sophomore slumps to injury, just
people you know, changing their game to defend her. It's
I just think that the Caitlin Clark discussion swings so
far in each direction, right, you guys are touching on
that earlier. It's not really fair to her. It's either
like far in one direction, far in another. And the
fact of the matter is, like I am going to
say that her injury should be an asterisk of for
(19:25):
why she's been playing this way. I just think there's
an immense amount of pressure on her to keep carrying
this league, and she's a year and a half into
her WNBA career, and you know, I think that the
stress of the pressure being on you can break your
body down. I really think that you can have you
can suffer from injuries just from having a lot of
spotlight on you. Maybe she just hasn't had the chance
to really like work with, you know, being a celebrity
(19:48):
and try and improve her game. She needs to get
into a certain headspace and get her body right. We're
halfway through her second year. We could see the second
second half of her season play out. They get to
the playoffs, maybe they make a run to the second
round or something. What do we call that season? We
call it a success? I think we would And again
in the WNBA Player of the Year for the SP's
is an interesting conversation. You're giving the they're giving the
(20:09):
award out in July when most sports are on hiatus.
You're halfway through her second year, so it's like, when
do you start the calendar when you look at what
she's done over a course our calendar.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
Well, she shouldn't have won a meaningless award anyway. Last night,
you know, yeah, I don't put much stock into it. No,
I put zero.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
If I could do less than zero, I would, I
would because I agree negative nine million into.
Speaker 6 (20:30):
I would say that she wasn't the player of the year.
She's the rookie of the year. Maybe for all of
the things she did bringing attention and breaking bars, she's
the player of the year in the SP's eyes. But
it's like where do you start the calendar? Where do
you start looking at the good? The good runs to
a certain amount, and then then it's like a story.
You have your ups and your downs, your triumphs and
your failures.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
The funny thing is that Mantia I do want to
just quick get your thoughts and then we'll put a
ball on it. The sps are for ratings, and there
were ten WNBA teams in action last night, so nobody
of the WNBA was in attendance, So there's nobody there
to boo. Nobody there, And if you actually cared about
the WNBA, you were probably watching the games that were
being played instead of a stupid award show that doesn't
(21:10):
mean anything. And so they just gave the award to
Kitlin Clark because it's better for their ratings. I'm sure
to see if Caitlin Clark would win. Oh my goodness,
I gotta watch next year. That's the only reason why
she got it. Sorry, Manzi, back to square one. You've
always been a Caitlin Clark backer like Sam.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I have been, and I am, and I understand to
an extent when you guys are saying that overall, honestly,
it's just been an underwhelming second year for Kaitlyn Clark.
And it's been underwhelming, whether it's injury, whether it's stressed,
whether it has just been underwhelming.
Speaker 4 (21:43):
Well, and I just want to reiter at the point
that I made earlier. It doesn't mean that she can't
continue to blossom. You know, I have a reference that
you know, Michael Jordan, we all watched left the last
dance like year two was wiped out by a foot injury,
and I went back and looked it up average thirty
seven the next year.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So you know, I'm not saying I'm just saying it's this.
Speaker 5 (22:00):
Isn't a judgment to what it's going to be like
for the future. Is just right now underwhelming.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I agree Aaron called in an overcorrection, and I just
think that a different audience has different ammunition. Now that's true,
like the power of the stats or the power of
statistics has now switched in your argument, in your in
not your but in the biased argument around Kaitlin Clark.
Speaker 4 (22:22):
And the only thing I would say is I call
it an overcorrection. But to your point, by definition, if
you've already decided and you're not getting off of that,
then you can't overcorrect because your decision was already made,
probably before she came into the WNBA, but certainly by
the end of the season last year.
Speaker 3 (22:38):
He's eron Torres.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
I'm Dan byer Monci is here, as is Iowa Sam
Ryan Bersinger as our executive producer, because I feel a
draft our tirect player of the Day comes up in
a bit as well. But I brought up Aaron Judge
and while he may be sitting there in this shadow
of Caitlin Clark, should he really be in the shadow
of others in Major League Baseball? We'll talk about it
next on Fox Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Thanks for listening to The Doug Gottlieb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Sure to catch us live every weekday three to five
Eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio. Find your
local station for the Doug Gottlieb Show at Fox Sports
Radio dot com or stream US live every day on
the iHeartRadio app by searching fs R.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Montt didn't have an update, But if you missed any
of the SP's last night, here's a little taste.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
Okay, and the SP goes.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Too, Okay, do we have anything outside of.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
You have anything? Okay? Okay, alright, goes too okay. There.
What a waste of time the SPS were. And I
know that we've maybe wasted.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
More time talking about how much of a waste of
time the SPS were. But like, let's on our athletes again.
Who needs an MVP award when you've got this amazing,
amazing Aaron Judge. I don't think he was there last night.
I have no idea. I didn't.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I didn't. You didn't see that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Aaron Judge is getting ready for the second half of
the Major League Baseball season. He's sitting there with a
career home run total that saw him be the fastest
player to ever reach three hundred and fifty home runs,
and for how quickly he did it, Aaron one thousand
and eighty eight games. Mark McGuire was the second fastest
(24:23):
twelve hundred and eighty. That is almost two hundred games.
It was more than a full season of games for
Aaron Judge to reach three hundred and fifty home runs.
He did it in a season plus quicker than Mark
McGuire did. I find that feat remarkable considering how much
I feel that we care about home runs. So on
(24:44):
the heels of us talking about Caitlyn Clark and last year,
I'm trying to make an argument on how Aaron Judge
is more popular. I'm not sure if that's the case now,
aside from our Caitlin Clark conversation, because I don't think
we're making a bigger deal or as big of a
deal out of where he he is right now, the
season that he's having right now, and what Aaron Judge
is actually doing on the diamond.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, it's funny you and I filled in, I believe
for cn R maybe Gottlieb. A few weeks ago, the
night the day after Clayton Kershaw got his three thousand strikeout,
we started talking about records that will never be broken
and who's on pace for this and what it would
take for whoever, you know who. I can't even remember
who's the next guy online, but anyway, how long it
would take so and so to get there and so
(25:26):
to have a stat like this for a to your point,
a record that is arguably, I mean, I know it's
a little skewed because of the Barry Bond stuff, but
arguably one of the most coveted records in all of sports.
We have a guy living it every day on you know,
on path to be in the conversation by the end,
by the way, playing for the.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yankees, too great point.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, I don't mean to be a jerk, and
I know everybody always defaults to the Pittsburgh Pirates or
the Tampa Bay Rays or the Kansas City Royals. He's
not doing this with the Royals on a fourth place team.
He is doing it for the one of the two
premieer brands in the sport. And I am surprised. I
actually didn't know about this until you brought it up yesterday.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's funny because my argument when talking about the pictures
is I just I feel like when they were what
only you know, twenty pitchers to accomplish the feed or
or whatever it was, that it shows you how select
the company is, and so that shows you on how
special the players are, and there are certain players who
are young in their career that are just special and
will be treated different throughout. And I feel that Aaron Judge,
(26:26):
when we're talking about home runs, is in that conversation.
So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, why aren't we
talking about this more? And I thought, were they talking
about this back in the day when Hank Aaron was
hitting bomb after bomb, where they like, he's sitting there
at three hundred and fifty home runs and he's almost
halfway to Babe Ruth's record of seven fourteen. I don't
(26:50):
think that was the conversation. In fact, throughout other players' careers.
I'm thinking back of when do we really start to care,
and it's probably around five, Yeah, five hundred, I think
that's probably the correct number. But I think Judge is
giving us reason to watch, and maybe we aren't fulfilling
(27:10):
our duties of being interested considering the type of season
that he's having and just what he's doing with home runs.
Like I could, I could understand if people like oh
I didn't realize Era Judge in the running for you know,
the Triple Crown. Totally get that, but for the fascination
that we have for the home run and what we
love and the magical number of it. I just don't
think it's getting enough PUB.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
I mean, think about this two year over year as
he hits his thirties. He turned thirty in April of
twenty twenty two, sixty two home runs that year, thirty
seven the following year. He did miss about sixty games
fifty eight last year, and he obviously has thirty five
at the All Star break right now.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
So I think that's just.
Speaker 4 (27:53):
It's just incredible the amount of consistency that he has
had as he hit his thirties. And you know, I
do wonder if starting the career a little bit later
because of playing in college obviously at Fresno State, impacts
it at all. But the guy is unbelievable, And you're right,
I don't know exactly why he isn't getting more PUB.
I don't know if it's his personality. I don't know
(28:14):
if Otani just overwhelms the baseball national discourse.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
But the guy's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
What's also a small portion of this, and it doesn't
directly go into the total number of games in the
three point fifty mark, but there's a COVID season. That
great con is that he basically lost one hundred games.
Let's just say misses twenty that year. Eighty games that
he misses half of a season, and we're talking about greatness.
(28:42):
I'm curious to see at the end of the of
his career on if that's going to end up playing
playing a role.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
I'll just say this, you know, it's funny, we don't
really factor that in anywhere else, you know, like with
Lebron just as a you know, historic all time great
It's like, yeah, I guess with the NFL, they played
a full season, so that's a little bit different. But
like with Lebron, you know, we talk about how the
season was broken up, how do we judge his how
(29:09):
do we judge I guess maybe it's because baseball was
the only one that really had such a truncated season,
And now that we're talking it out, you know, college
basketball obviously missed the NCAA tournament. College football, I think
most of those SEC teams got in about the same
number of games that they would have in the end.
So maybe maybe it's just a uniquely baseball thing, but
that was something you know, I just saw the twenty
twenty stats and kind of forgot.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Oh that's right. They played what.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Sixty regular season games something to that effect in empty
stadiums that.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Year, and even at the end, it doesn't even out
because that would be in the young, you know, prime
of his career of where he could have had those
home runs, so you could have seen an astronomical number
as opposed to if you were to play, if you
were to save the energy, if we think of it
that way, or elongated his career because he didn't have
a full season. Well, I would rather have the games
when I'm been on the back end of when I'm
(29:57):
in my late thirties trying to.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Hit twenty eight. He would have been twenty twenty. That's
your physical peak.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yes, absolutely absolutely, he is Aeron Torres. I'm Dan Byer.
Only cal Raley right now standing in the way of
Aaron Judge and that triple crown, plus what Showhey Otani does.
I feel overshadows Judge just because of the uniqueness of
show Ay and his greatness. I feel that that also
plays a role in all of this. He is Aeron Torres.
(30:23):
I'm Dan Byer in for Doug Gottlieb today on Fox
Sports Radio.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
Thanks for listening. To The Doug Gotleb Show podcast.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Be sure to catch us live every weekday from three
to five eastern twelve two Pacific on Fox Sports Radio.
Find your local station for The Doug Gotlieb Show at
Foxsports Trader dot com, or stream us live every day
on the iHeartRadio app by searching FSR.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Joining us now, or good buddy at Basketball Talk. Kurt
Healin joining us here on Fox Sports Radio to talk
hoops and so much more. I again, I tabbed you
Kurt sexual healing a long time ago. I still hope
nobody stole that title, Kurt, But great to talk.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
To you again. How are you?
Speaker 7 (31:01):
Yeah, even my wife doesn't want to take that title
for me, So I don't know what to say. Man,
I'm not sure where.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I go with it. All Right?
Speaker 2 (31:06):
What does the lead NBA Rider, a managing editor at
NBC dot com think of the Bradley Beal signing with
the Los Angeles Clippers.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
I think it's a good signing for the Clippers at
that price. Look, the question wasn't could Bradley Beal still play?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Some like?
Speaker 7 (31:20):
Bradley Beal still a solid player, even if he's declined
a little. It was the fifty million dollars. It was
kind of the issue making teams balk. The Clippers get admit,
you know, five point three million this year. That's a
good salary, and he steps right into a role for them.
Everybody in the league knew this was going to happen
the second they traded Norm Powell like this. He steps
(31:42):
right into the role Norm Powell had for them last year,
kind of off the bench, runs the second unit, can
play next to James hard and shoot threes, defend a little,
give them twenty five to thirty solid minutes a night,
and we're going to see if Biel can still do that.
I kind of think he's going to be I don't
know if he's going to be as good as Norm
Powell was last year. Who was I think people kind
of slept on that because nobody was watching the Clippers.
(32:02):
He was like a borderline All Star. He was really
good last year. But I think he'll be solid. So
I think it at that price, man, it's a good signing.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, if Lebron was going to sit out the game,
Norman Paul was the one who caught the expense of
that deal.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
The whole deal. He could get a play it in
the game. Sorry, go ahead, Aeron, No, it's okay.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I was actually going to ask the most cliche NBA
sports talk radio question imaginable, which is about Lebron James,
and basically, is there is there a market for him?
Is there a scenario where he isn't a Laker? Because
I just look at a guy making fifty three million
next year all of the caveats that come with that,
(32:39):
and I think it's fun to talk about Lebron James
hypothetically on another team this coming season.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
I just don't know how that's realistic.
Speaker 7 (32:47):
You've kind of nailed it like this. Look, I just
got back because six days in Vegas was enough. Man,
I had to get out. But I I mean, at
six days in Vegas, that's what the topic at Summer League.
Everybody wanted to talk talk about it. But kind of
like you said, everybody wanted to talk about it, and
within about a minute the conversation, conversation turned to a shrug.
Because Lebron has a no trade clause, so he's not
(33:10):
going to go first off. Historically has never given money back,
right like he's he's not like, hey, hey, I don't
need all fifty million. No, that's not how Lebron has
ever operated. And he signed the contract, he gets his money.
The other part of that is, since he has the
no trade clause, he completely controls the process and where
he's going to go. And he's only going to go
(33:31):
to a couple of teams, like he might be open
to New York or Cleveland, or you know, you can
come up with a couple where he might be interested,
but then put together a trade and it falls apart quickly,
like there's just no Cleveland is a favorite example, Like
a lot of fans wanted to go back there. They
are over the second apron, which means they can't even
aggregate players in that trade. It has to be a
one for one swap of almost exact money. They can't
(33:52):
take back more money. The Lakers can't really take back
more money. There's just no deal to be made. And
it's kind of that way across the board everywhere you look.
So I know it's been written about. I kind of
followed up with what Dan Roiki wrote, But everybody assumes
right now he is a Laker, probably all of next
season now next summer. Then it gets interesting.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
KURTI, He'll enjoining us here on Fox Sports Radio. He's
erin Torres. I'm Dan byer in for Doug Gottlieb. I
was here the morning that Lebron opted in and ended
up not getting an extension or getting a one and
one from the Lakers. How much did that catch the
rest of the league off guard? Because that's my thought, Kurt.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, that no other
(34:34):
team was built or ready to maybe have Lebron this season.
How much did that play into it in the other
teams being surprised?
Speaker 7 (34:44):
There were teams with some optionality there just because everybody
was everybody was still playing the what about Yannis game? Right,
And there was plenty of market for Yannis at a
similar price point, just because at this point in their careers,
with Yannis being like ten years younger, he's just better, right,
Like Gianness is still a guy you can build a
championship team around. So there was some optionality, but there
(35:08):
wasn't much. And I think you got it right when
the reaction around the league was largely, oh, he opted in.
Doesn't He didn't use his leverage to get a second
year or anything. He just opted in and released what
was a who was gonna call it a passive aggressive statement,
a semi aggressive statement. It was a little more than passive.
Through Rich Paul, it really read around the league as like,
(35:30):
I'm not happy not being like he's been the focus
of every team he's ever been on. Right, he's been
the focus and he's not now, and it's kind of
a weird vibe for him.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
I think.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
Yeah, No, I actually I was talking to my wife
about this exact thing. We live in LA and I
was kind of explaining, like it's just the first time
since he was sixteen that everything isn't built around him. Actually,
I don't want to turn this into a lebron segment,
but I think it's inevitable. I will ask you because
I feel like, and I know I believe you at
least used to live in southern California. Kurr, Okay, Yeah,
(36:01):
I wanted to ask you because I do think living
in LA. I'm not a born and bred LA or
Lakers fan whatever. I think it's an interesting conversation about
what his legacy would be, assuming that nothing crazy happens
and what we assume is his final season next year,
because yes, he brought a title to the city, Yes
they made a Western Conference finals, but you could correct us.
(36:21):
I mean multiple miss playoffs, multiple first round exits, including
this year, and we know what the standard of the
Lakers is with all of the all time greats. I
would just be curious if next season goes as planned
they don't win a championship because I don't think they're
among the favorites. What do you think his legacy specifically
as a Laker will be to that specific fan base?
Speaker 7 (36:42):
Yeah, first off, they're not winning a championship this year
without some changes. Really, the only thing they lack is
defense and shooting.
Speaker 3 (36:54):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Doug's famous line is other than that, Missus Lincoln, how
is the show.
Speaker 7 (37:00):
Pretty pretty much the same thing as a Laker. It's
a second tier thing, right, Like he did bring a championship.
He was the face of the franchise for a while
for years and filled the building. But he's not gonna
be Kobe Magic Shack, you know one, Jerry West. He's
(37:24):
a little ahead of Eddie, He's behind George Mikens still there.
It's but it's kind of a second tier thing largely
because of just he was. I mean, he's been with
the Lakers. This would be the eighth season I believe,
so It's not like it's no time, but it is.
It is one ring, and it's not quite the same
(37:45):
iconic legacy that you know, Kobe spent his entire career
there and did all this magic, spent his entire career
there and did you know West, same thing. So it's
just a little bit of a different vibe because Lebron
bounced around a little.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Bit like that.
Speaker 7 (37:58):
So I would say that's kind of the differ, friends,
but it is definitely second with the Lakers alone, it's
second tier. Winning that championship in LA And how well
he's still playing at age forty is part really part
of and kind of at the heart that legacy and
how good he's been for so long is at the
legacy of his goat argument right like that he's still, Yeah,
(38:19):
he's still I was putting together my vote lest year.
I'm like, he's second team All NBA. He is still
a top ten player in the league at forty, and
that's insane.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Kurt Hellen joining us here on Fox Sports Radio. He's
erin Torres. I'm Dan byer in for Doug kur At,
the lead NBA writer for embass sports dot Com covering
the association. I do have some summer league questions. But
I've got one more of a big name in the NBA,
and it's this latest profile put out by ESPN on
Joel Embiid in the seventy six ers. Now you got
Paul George with another knee surgery. Things doesn't seem to
(38:52):
be a great offseason for Philadelphia, although draft wise they
could be working out all right. But where are the
six at this point? And should there be any concern
that Joel Embiid's worried about locker room leaks as opposed
to maybe his health and everything next season?
Speaker 7 (39:09):
Yeah, you should be worried about everything with the Sixers,
locker room leaks, knees hips, feet, you know. I guys,
I'm honestly for later tonight or tomorrow. I was putting
together my NBA Power rankings that have come out, Like
I said, later tonight or tomorrow morning, depending on what
my editor wants. But I have them. I think fourteenth
(39:31):
in the middle, and I'm like, this is either too
high or too low. And I don't know. I don't
know what to do with that team because if it clicks,
like you said, look, VJ. Edge Combs really nice, really
athletic from people who haven't got to see him play. Stylistically,
he's not as good as Anthony Edwards, but he plays
with that kind of downhill athletic force, like he's that
(39:53):
style of player. You put him back there with Jared
McCain and and they're point guard and suddenly you've got
like a really nice combo. But it all still hinges
on Embiid and Paul George, like with Tyres Maxy. They
got a future with those guys, but it's still all
about George and Embiid being healthy and now they're having
both having some off seat, you know, coming back, and
(40:13):
I don't know if we're gonna be ready for training camp,
And yeah, I don't know, man, I genuinely don't know
what to do with that team.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
All I was gonna say last one for me. You
mentioned the power rank. He's certainly not going to ask
you to reveal too much. But is there a team
that maybe maybe you're either a little bit higher on
or a little bit lower on than the consensus.
Speaker 7 (40:32):
Then the consensus. I'm really high on Orlando. I think
they're I think they're third in the East and climbing fast.
The Desmond Bane pickup was great. They got some shooting
to go, Tyas Jones was kind of a perfect little
backup point guard fit. I really like where that team
is headed. The other team who had a really good
off season in the East, and the East just feels
(40:55):
more open. Like Houston had a great offseason and everybody
knows it and they're contenders. But Atlanta had a really
nice offseason, guys, and like suddenly they get Jalen Johnson
backed and healthy, which would be huge because he was
monster last year until he got injured. They got some
better depth and everything around them. And if Poorzing, like
(41:16):
if porzingis is healthy, man, that's another team to be
top four and a kind of a threat in the
playoffs in the East because they've got all the pieces.
If they can just if it just comes together right
for Quinn Snyder, I'm really intrigued by them.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
Atlanta and Orlando a new world Eastern conference in the NBA.
All right, before we let you go, Curtie Elin, after
six days in Vegas, what are your what's your biggest
summer league takeaway from what you saw in Sin City?
Speaker 7 (41:47):
Oh wow, look at the top of the list. I'll
give you the one Cooper Flag is as good as
the hype. Like he was struggled a little with his
shot in his first game, Carta Bryant did a defensive
job on him for the Spurs for a stretch, but
the end of the day, what's great about him is
like even when his shot wasn't falling, his floor is
(42:09):
like multiple time All Star because he just defends and
he hustles and he gets points in transition and he
can do all this. He does everything else well. And
if like your concern is just like he's got to
work on his handles and his his you know, ability
to create offense, A little like that will come so
he lives up to the hype. I'll tell you the
other guy who's just fun, Yang Hansen, the Chinese. Like
(42:32):
we all went who what seem like he's a second
round pick. I like, he's got to get a lot stronger.
His defense is as bad as advertised. It's it's an issue.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
He's fun, you said, you said, Carter Bryant, I thought,
well lost of what he did for San Antonio.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
I love that pick. Again, there's a guy where the
offense needs to come along. But the fact that you're
going to go out on on with the what they've
got out there, Like the Fox is a pretty good defender.
People kind of forget you're gonna get around Fox, or
you're gonna have to fight around Dylan Harper, who's long
and athletic and a really good defender. Or you get
by Carter Bryant on the wing and you're like, man,
(43:10):
that was a lot of work. Oh it's Wemby. Sure,
that's gonna be a top ten defensive team this year.
And as their offense starts to click, like when you
talk to people in Vegas about like the future, and
everybody's like, right now, right, you got to get past
Oklahoma City, and did Houston do enough to Denver, who
had a great offseason doing enough? You start talking two
(43:32):
or three years down the line, they're all like, yeah, no,
san Antonio, it's gonna be so good when it all
They've got a lot of good young players. Wemby started
starting to figure it out. He's ten best player in
the world. He's gonna win Defensive Player of the Year,
and he's still got so much more growth, Like it's, yeah,
that's gonna be a beast down there in a couple
of years. Man.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
Well, both at growth as a professional and maybe scaringly enough,
maybe physically. Who knows, but Kurt Healing, thanks so much
for the time. Yeah, grows anymore. I don't know what
we're gonna get from Wemby, but uh.
Speaker 7 (44:03):
He's not gonna be able to fit in any shell.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Keep growing.
Speaker 2 (44:08):
Very very well, Kurt, Thanks for the time. I always
love talking you enjoy the rest of the summer.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (44:13):
Take care man.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Kurt Healing, lead NBA writer for embercsports dot com. He's
erin Torres. I'm dan Byer
Host
Doug Gottlieb
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